Y Cyfarfod Llawn

Plenary

29/11/2022

Cynnwys

Contents

Datganiad gan y Llywydd Statement by the Llywydd
1. Cwestiynau i'r Prif Weinidog 1. Questions to the First Minister
2. Datganiad a Chyhoeddiad Busnes 2. Business Statement and Announcement
3. Datganiad gan y Dirprwy Weinidog Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol: Cyhoeddi'r Adolygiad Ymarfer Plant i farwolaeth Logan Mwangi 3. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Social Services: The publication of the Child Practice Review into the death of Logan Mwangi
4. Datganiad gan Ddirprwy Weinidog y Celfyddydau a Chwaraeon, a'r Prif Chwip: Coffáu Cyhoeddus yng Nghymru: Canllawiau i Gyrff Cyhoeddus 4. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Arts and Sport, and Chief Whip: Public Commemoration in Wales: Guidance for Public Bodies
5. Rheoliadau Deddf Rhentu Cartrefi (Cymru) 2016 (Diwygiad Atodlen 12 a Diwygio Canlyniadol) 2022 5. The Renting Homes (Wales) Act 2016 (Amendment of Schedule 12 and Consequential Amendment) Regulations 2022
6. Cynnig i amrywio'r drefn ystyried ar gyfer gwelliannau Cyfnod 3 y Bil Diogelu'r Amgylchedd (Cynhyrchion Plastig Untro) (Cymru) 6. Motion to vary the order of consideration of Stage 3 amendments to The Environmental Protection (Single-Use Plastic Products) (Wales) Bill
7. Rheoliadau Cynllun Morol, Pysgodfeydd a Dyframaethu (Cymorth Ariannol) (Cymru) 2022 7. The Marine, Fisheries and Aquaculture (Financial Assistance) Scheme (Wales) Regulations 2022
8. Datganiad gan y Gweinidog Cyfiawnder Cymdeithasol: Diwrnod Rhyngwladol Pobl Anabl 8. Statement by the Minister for Social Justice: International Day of Disabled Persons
9. & 10. Dadl ar Egwyddorion Cyffredinol Y Bil Partneriaeth a'r penderfyniad ariannol mewn perthynas â’r Bil Partneriaeth Gymdeithasol a Chaffael Cyhoeddus (Cymru) Gymdeithasol a Chaffael Cyhoeddus (Cymru) 9. & 10. The General Principles of the Social Partnership and Public Procurement (Wales) Bill and The Financial Resolution in respect of the Social Partnership and Public Procurement (Wales) Bill
11. Cyfnod Pleidleisio 11. Voting Time

Yn y fersiwn ddwyieithog, mae’r golofn chwith yn cynnwys yr iaith a lefarwyd yn y cyfarfod. Mae’r golofn dde yn cynnwys cyfieithiad o’r areithiau hynny.

In the bilingual version, the left-hand column includes the language used during the meeting. The right-hand column includes a translation of those speeches.

Cyfarfu'r Senedd yn y Siambr a thrwy gynhadledd fideo am 13:30 gyda'r Llywydd (Elin Jones) yn y Gadair. 

The Senedd met in the Chamber and by video-conference at 13:30 with the Llywydd (Elin Jones) in the Chair.

Datganiad gan y Llywydd
Statement by the Llywydd

Prynhawn da. Croeso, bawb, i'r cyfarfod y prynhawn yma. 

Good afternoon and welcome to this afternoon's meeting. 

Last time I sat in this chair was Saturday morning, and you all looked, on average, 30 years younger than you are currently. I can report that we had a very successful meeting of the elected Senedd Ieuenctid, the Welsh Youth Parliament, meeting in this Chamber for the first time since their election. It was a very successful meeting, and I urge you all to meet with the youth parliamentarians on a regular basis if you can do. It's certainly very worth while to do that, and it was a very successful meeting. 

Y tro diwethaf i mi eistedd yn y gadair hon oedd bore Sadwrn, ac roeddech chi i gyd yn edrych, ar gyfartaledd, 30 mlynedd yn iau nag ydych chi nawr. Gallaf adrodd i ni gael cyfarfod llwyddiannus iawn o Senedd Ieuenctid Cymru yn y Siambr hon am y tro cyntaf ers eu hethol. Roedd yn gyfarfod llwyddiannus iawn, ac rwy'n eich annog i gyd i gwrdd â'r seneddwyr ieuenctid yn rheolaidd os gallwch chi. Yn sicr mae'n werth chweil i wneud hynny, ac roedd yn gyfarfod llwyddiannus iawn.

Felly, diolch i bawb o'r Senedd Ieuenctid am y cyfarfod dros y penwythnos.

So, thanks to everyone from the Youth Parliament for that meeting over the weekend.

1. Cwestiynau i'r Prif Weinidog
1. Questions to the First Minister

Y Prif Weinidog sydd i ateb cwestiynau yn gyntaf, ac mae'r cwestiwn gan Tom Giffard. 

The first item is questions to the First Minister, and the first question is from Tom Giffard. 

Diolch, Llywydd, and you look as youthful as ever. [Laughter.]

Diolch, Llywydd, ac rydych chi'n edrych mor ifanc ag erioed. [Chwerthin.]

I can confirm that charm will get you nowhere with this Chair. [Laughter.]

Gallaf gadarnhau mai ofer fydd ceisio swyno'r Cadeirydd yma. [Chwerthin.]

Mynediad at Feddygon Teulu
Access to GPs

1. A wnaiff y Prif Weinidog roi'r wybodaeth ddiweddaraf am fynediad cleifion at eu meddyg teulu? OQ58800

1. Will the First Minister provide an update on patients' access to their GP? OQ58800

Llywydd, the general medical standards, agreed with GPs in Wales, are improving access and ensuring consistency across the nation. Achievement has increased year on year, with 89 per cent of all practices now achieving all the standards. Agreement for next year’s contract will see further improvements in access to the whole of the primary care team.

Llywydd, mae'r safonau meddygol cyffredinol, a gytunwyd gyda meddygon teulu yng Nghymru, yn gwella mynediad ac yn sicrhau cysondeb ledled y wlad. Mae cyflawniad wedi cynyddu o flwyddyn i flwyddyn, gydag 89 y cant o'r holl bractisiau bellach yn cyflawni'r holl safonau. Bydd cytundeb ar gyfer contract y flwyddyn nesaf yn gweld mwy o welliannau o ran mynediad at y tîm gofal sylfaenol cyfan.

I'm grateful to you, First Minister, for your answer. I've been getting increasing correspondence from constituents in Porthcawl concerned about the availability of an appointment with their local GP. And whilst I understand Porthcawl medical practice is working as hard it can to meet patient demand, they've said, and I quote:

'Diagnostic and monitoring work historically performed at hospitals is being passed to GPs, and, as a profession, GPs cannot cope with these demands from all sides.'

The Royal College of General Practitioners have highlighted concerns that there are 18 fewer practices across Wales since 2020, and the British Medical Association Cymru Wales note that, whilst the Welsh Government is meeting its lesser target of training 160 new GPs each year, it falls well short of the 200 target that the BMA say is required here in Wales. All of this is putting a bottleneck of pressure on practices like Porthcawl, and it's a situation that could potentially get worse in the years to come, as we know that GPs in Wales are, on average, older than their colleagues elsewhere in the UK. So, what steps is the Welsh Government taking to ensure that GP provision meets local demand in a town like Porthcawl, and will you commit your Government to hitting the BMA target of 200 new GPs a year? 

Rwy'n ddiolchgar i chi, Prif Weinidog, am eich ateb. Rwyf wedi cael gohebiaeth gynyddol gan etholwyr ym Mhorthcawl yn pryderu am anhawster cael apwyntiad gyda'u meddyg teulu lleol. Ac er fy mod yn deall bod canolfan feddygol Porthcawl yn gweithio mor galed â phosibl i ateb y galw gan gleifion, maen nhw wedi dweud, ac rwy'n dyfynnu:

'Mae gwaith diagnostig a monitro a wneir yn hanesyddol mewn ysbytai yn cael ei drosglwyddo i feddygon teulu, ac fel proffesiwn, ni all meddygon teulu ymdopi â'r gofynion hyn o bob cyfeiriad.'

Mae Coleg Brenhinol yr Ymarferwyr Cyffredinol wedi tynnu sylw at bryderon fod yna 18 yn llai o bractisiau ledled Cymru ers 2020, ac mae Cymdeithas Feddygol Prydain (Cymru) yn nodi, er bod Llywodraeth Cymru yn cyrraedd ei tharged is o hyfforddi 160 o feddygon teulu newydd bob blwyddyn, ei bod ymhell o gyrraedd y targed o 200 y mae'r BMA yn dweud sydd ei angen yma yng Nghymru. Mae hyn oll yn rhoi pwysau enfawr ar ganolfannau meddygol fel Porthcawl, ac mae'n sefyllfa a allai waethygu yn y blynyddoedd i ddod, gan ein bod ni'n gwybod bod meddygon teulu yng Nghymru, ar gyfartaledd, yn hŷn na'u cydweithwyr mewn rhannau eraill o'r DU. Felly, pa gamau y mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn eu cymryd i sicrhau bod darpariaeth meddygon teulu yn ateb galw lleol mewn tref fel Porthcawl, ac a fyddwch yn ymrwymo eich Llywodraeth i gyrraedd targed y BMA o 200 o feddygon teulu newydd y flwyddyn? 

Well, Llywydd, on the latter point, there are 200 places available in Wales for GP trainees. We don't always get to 200, but we consistently attract more than the 160, which is the baseline figure for GP training. The long-term answer, however, is to move away from the single focus on GPs themselves. GPs are leaders of a wider clinical team that works alongside them. And the history over the last decade in Wales has been a successful move to recruit more front-line clinicians in physiotherapy, in pharmacy, through paramedics who practise in primary care, and, of course, advanced practice nurses as well. And the long-term health of primary care does rely on not regarding an appointment with the doctor as the only way in which primary care can be delivered. 

I'm sure the Porthcawl medical practice works very hard indeed. They will be glad to know that, in the negotiations with the general practitioners committee Wales, we have been reducing the amount of repetitive reporting that GPs sometimes are asked to carry out, usually for the purposes of monitoring important clinical conditions. But we can do that in better and smarter ways, and release clinicians' time into doing the things that only they are able to do. 

Wel, Llywydd, ar yr ail bwynt, mae 200 o leoedd ar gael yng Nghymru ar gyfer hyfforddeion meddygon teulu. Nid ydym bob amser yn cyrraedd 200, ond rydym ni'n denu mwy na'r 160 yn gyson, sef y ffigur sylfaenol ar gyfer hyfforddiant meddygon teulu. Yr ateb tymor hir, fodd bynnag, yw symud i ffwrdd o ganolbwyntio dim ond ar feddygon teulu eu hunain. Mae meddygon teulu yn arweinwyr tîm clinigol ehangach sy'n gweithio ochr yn ochr â nhw. Ac mae'r hanes dros y degawd diwethaf yng Nghymru wedi bod yn gam llwyddiannus i recriwtio mwy o glinigwyr rheng flaen mewn ffisiotherapi, mewn fferylliaeth, drwy barafeddygon sy'n ymarfer gofal sylfaenol, ac, wrth gwrs, nyrsys practis uwch hefyd. Ac mae iechyd hirdymor gofal sylfaenol yn dibynnu ar beidio ystyried apwyntiad gyda'r meddyg fel yr unig ffordd y gellir darparu gofal sylfaenol. 

Rwy'n siŵr bod canolfan feddygol Porthcawl yn gweithio'n galed iawn yn wir. Byddant yn falch o wybod ein bod ni, yn y trafodaethau gyda Phwyllgor Ymarferwyr Cyffredinol Cymru wedi bod yn lleihau faint o adroddiadau ailadroddus y gofynnir i feddygon teulu eu cyflawni weithiau, fel arfer at ddibenion monitro cyflyrau clinigol pwysig. Ond gallwn wneud hynny mewn ffyrdd gwell a mwy clyfar, a rhyddhau clinigwyr i wneud y pethau mai dim ond nhw sy'n gallu eu gwneud. 

Mae unedau gofal sylfaenol brys yn un o'r atebion sydd wedi cael eu cyflwyno er mwyn trio lleihau y pwysau ar feddygfeydd. Ond, yn Ynys Môn, dŷn ni'n gweld bod naw o'r 10 syrjeri sydd gennym ni ar yr ynys wedi gwneud 278 referral i'r uned newydd yn Ysbyty Penrhos Stanley, tra bod yr un feddygfa sy'n cael ei rheoli yn uniongyrchol gan y bwrdd iechyd, Hwb Iechyd Cybi, ei hun wedi gwneud dros ddwywaith y nifer yna o referrals—562. Ydy'r Prif Weinidog yn cytuno â fi fod hynny'n brawf bod angen cyflymu'r broses o ddatblygu canolfan iechyd amlddisgyblaethol newydd ar gyfer cymuned Caergybi a'r ardal?

Emergency primary care units are one of the solutions put forward in order to reduce pressures on surgeries. But, in Ynys Môn, we see that nine of the 10 surgeries that we have on the island have made 278 referrals to the new unit in Ysbyty Penrhos Stanley, while the one surgery that is directly managed by the health board, Hwb Iechyd Cybi, has itself made over twice that number of referrals—562. Does the First Minister agree with me that that's proof that we need to accelerate the process of developing a multidisciplinary health centre for the community of Holyhead and the area?

13:35

Dwi wedi gweld tystiolaeth dros y misoedd, Llywydd, am y sefyllfa yng Nghaergybi, a dwi'n gwybod bod y bwrdd iechyd yn gweithio gyda phobl leol ar yr ynys i drial cyflymu'r broses o recriwtio pobl newydd ac i gael beth sy'n mynd ymlaen a beth sydd ar gael yng Nghaergybi i fod yn rhan o'r gwasanaeth sydd ar gael yna dros yr ynys i gyd. Mae rhai problemau, rŷn ni'n gwybod, wrth recriwtio'r staff, ond mae pobl leol yn gweithio'n galed gyda'i gilydd i drial gwella'r sefyllfa bresennol.

I have seen evidence over the recent months, Llywydd, about the situation in Holyhead, and I know that the health board is working with local people on the island to try and accelerate the recruitment of new people, and to make what's going on and what's available in Holyhead a part of the service that's available across the whole island. There are some problems, we know, in terms of staff recruitment, but local people are working very hard together to try and improve the current situation.

There are huge variabilities between surgeries' access. There are some excellent surgeries in my constituency, including Clydach and Strawberry Place, neither of which is my surgery. Over 90 per cent of my constituency complaints regarding GP surgeries' access is about one surgery. When people are unable to see a GP, they either go to A&E or wait until their condition deteriorates and are then forced to go to A&E. What can the Welsh Government do to ensure that at least the current median performance is achieved by all GP practices?

Mae mynediad i feddygfeydd yn amrywio'n enfawr. Mae rhai meddygfeydd ardderchog yn fy etholaeth i, gan gynnwys Clydach a Glyn Mefus, ac nid fy meddygfa i yw'r naill na'r llall. Mae dros 90 y cant o'r cwynion yn fy etholaeth i ynghylch mynediad i feddygfeydd yn ymwneud ag un feddygfa. Pan nad yw pobl yn gallu gweld meddyg teulu, maen nhw naill ai'n mynd i'r adran ddamweiniau ac achosion brys neu'n aros tan fydd eu cyflwr yn dirywio ac yna'n cael eu gorfodi i fynd i'r adran ddamweiniau ac achosion brys. Beth all Llywodraeth Cymru ei wneud i sicrhau bod yr holl feddygfeydd yn cyflawni o leiaf y perfformiad canolrifol cyfredol?

I thank Mike Hedges for that question, Llywydd. He draws attention to one of the fundamental facts of primary care, which is that GPs are independent contractors. They have a contract with the board, and they are not directly managed by the Welsh Government or the local health service. However, the good news for constituents of Mike Hedges is that, because of the successful conclusion of the negotiations for next year's contract, then the access standards move from being one of those things that GPs can sign up to, to one of the things that they have to deliver. It is now a fundamental part of the new contract, and that will mean, I believe, that that minority of practices—. Remember, 89 per cent of practices achieve those standards already, and that's an improvement from 65 per cent, Llywydd, in March of 2020, so the great thrust of primary care in Wales has been in the right direction, thanks to enormous efforts of staff. That small minority—that 10 per cent—that's left to achieve those standards, those things will now be easier to enforce because the contract itself will require them to be achieved.

Diolch i Mike Hedges am y cwestiwn yna, Llywydd. Mae'n tynnu sylw at un o ffeithiau sylfaenol gofal sylfaenol, sef bod meddygon teulu yn gontractwyr annibynnol. Mae ganddyn nhw gontract gyda'r bwrdd, ac nid ydynt yn cael eu rheoli'n uniongyrchol gan Lywodraeth Cymru na'r gwasanaeth iechyd lleol. Fodd bynnag, y newyddion da i etholwyr Mike Hedges yw, oherwydd casgliad llwyddiannus y trafodaethau ar gyfer contract y flwyddyn nesaf, mae'r safonau mynediad yn symud o fod yn bethau y gall meddygon teulu gytuno â nhw, i fod yn bethau y mae'n rhaid iddyn nhw eu cyflawni. Mae bellach yn rhan sylfaenol o'r contract newydd, a bydd hynny'n golygu, rwy'n credu, bod y lleiafrif hwnnw o bractisiau—. Cofiwch, mae 89 y cant o bractisiau yn cyflawni'r safonau hynny eisoes, ac mae hynny'n welliant o 65 y cant, Llywydd, ym mis Mawrth 2020, felly mae gwthiad mawr gofal sylfaenol yng Nghymru wedi bod i'r cyfeiriad cywir, diolch i ymdrechion enfawr y staff. Y lleiafrif bach hwnnw—y 10 y cant—sydd ar ôl i gyflawni'r safonau hynny, bydd y pethau hynny nawr yn haws i'w gorfodi oherwydd bydd y contract ei hun yn gofyn iddyn nhw gael eu cyflawni.

In your initial response to this question, First Minister, you referred to the other health professionals who can play a role in alleviating the pressures on GPs themselves. You may be interested to know that I visited only last week with Jonathan Lloyd Jones in the Caerau pharmacy. It's a pharmacy at the top of a very disadvantaged area—very much that issue of the inverse healthcare law—but what they're doing up there is working with the new community pharmacy contract in Wales. And I have to say I sat in—with individuals' permission—as they did minor ailment diagnosis and prescribing, and took that pressure off the GPs, but were liaising directly with the GPs, and sharing the data information as well, with the patients' authority. What a way forward that is. So, can I ask him for his assurance that we'll keep on exploring these innovative ways not only to relieve pressure off GPs, but also to promote the health and well-being of those in some of our most disadvantaged communities?

Yn eich ymateb cyntaf i'r cwestiwn hwn, Prif Weinidog, cyfeirioch chi at y gweithwyr iechyd proffesiynol eraill sy'n gallu chwarae rhan wrth leddfu'r pwysau ar feddygon teulu eu hunain. Efallai bydd diddordeb gennych wybod fy mod wythnos diwethaf wedi ymweld â Jonathan Lloyd Jones yn fferyllfa Caerau. Mae'n fferyllfa ym mhen uchaf ardal ddifreintiedig iawn—y mater hwnnw o'r ddeddf gofal gwrthgyfartal i bob pwrpas—ond yr hyn y maen nhw'n ei wneud yno yw gweithio gyda'r contract fferylliaeth gymunedol newydd yng Nghymru. Ac mae'n rhaid i mi ddweud i mi eistedd i mewn—gyda chaniatâd unigolion—wrth iddyn nhw roi diagnosis o fân anhwylderau a rhagnodi, gan gymryd y pwysau oddi ar y meddygon teulu, ond roedden nhw'n cydgysylltu'n uniongyrchol â'r meddygon teulu, ac yn rhannu gwybodaeth hefyd, gyda chaniatâd y cleifion. Am ffordd dda ymlaen yw hynny. Felly, a gaf i ofyn iddo am ei sicrwydd y byddwn yn parhau i edrych ar y ffyrdd arloesol hyn nid yn unig i dynnu pwysau oddi ar feddygon teulu, ond hefyd i hybu iechyd a llesiant y rhai hynny yn rhai o'n cymunedau mwyaf difreintiedig?

Llywydd, I thank Huw Irranca-Davies for that question. I think the promotion of community pharmacy has been something that has been agreed across the Chamber here, over the whole of the devolution period. We've always believed that it was a resource that could be made more of, and, over the years, we have seen community pharmacists in Wales absolutely expand the range of services that they provide, to agree to a modernisation of their contracts, to make sure that the services that that very highly trained workforce is able to provide as part of the primary care family is available right across Wales. And I think it's a real tribute to the people who work in the sector that they have been so willing to play their part in the modernisation of the service in Wales. I'd say this, Llywydd, that, in Wales, we continue to have just over 700 community pharmacists. They're on high streets in every part of Wales, whereas in England there has been a significant decline in the number of pharmacies, and that is because the regulations passed in this Chamber have protected the high-street position of community pharmacies, allowing examples like that highlighted by Huw Irranca-Davies to thrive and expand.

It's not just community pharmacists either, Llywydd, thinking of the original question. I was visiting a GP practice in the last few weeks and they were celebrating the fact that they had just recruited a pharmacist to come and work directly in the surgery and were explaining to me the number of repeat visitors that they will now be able to have seen clinically appropriately and quickly by that extra resource. So, I entirely agree with the point that was made, both in the community and directly within primary care, that the contribution of pharmacy is fundamental to the way we shape the service for the future.

Llywydd, diolch i Huw Irranca-Davies am y cwestiwn yna. Rwy'n credu bod hybu fferylliaeth gymunedol wedi bod yn rhywbeth y cytunwyd arno ar draws y Siambr yma, dros gyfnod datganoli i gyd. Rydym wastad wedi credu ei fod yn adnodd y gellid manteisio mwy arno, a dros y blynyddoedd, rydym wedi gweld fferyllwyr cymunedol yng Nghymru yn ehangu'r amrywiaeth o wasanaethau y maen nhw'n eu darparu yn sylweddol, gan gytuno i'w contractau gael eu moderneiddio, i wneud yn siŵr bod y gwasanaethau y gall y gweithlu hyfforddedig iawn hwnnw eu darparu fel rhan o'r teulu gofal sylfaenol, ar gael ledled Cymru. Ac rwy'n credu ei bod hi'n deyrnged wirioneddol i'r bobl sy'n gweithio yn y sector eu bod nhw wedi bod mor barod i chwarae eu rhan wrth foderneiddio'r gwasanaeth yng Nghymru. Byddwn i'n dweud hyn, Llywydd, ein bod yn parhau i fod ag ychydig dros 700 o fferyllwyr cymunedol, yng Nghymru. Maen nhw ar y stryd fawr ym mhob rhan o Gymru, ond yn Lloegr bu dirywiad sylweddol yn nifer y fferyllfeydd, a hynny oherwydd bod y rheoliadau a basiwyd yn y Siambr hon wedi amddiffyn lleoliad stryd fawr fferyllfeydd cymunedol, gan ganiatáu enghreifftiau fel yr un a amlygwyd gan Huw Irranca-Davies i ffynnu ac ehangu.

Nid yw'n ymwneud â fferyllwyr cymunedol yn unig chwaith, Llywydd, gan ystyried y cwestiwn gwreiddiol. Roeddwn i'n ymweld â phractis meddyg teulu yn ystod yr wythnosau diwethaf ac roedden nhw'n dathlu'r ffaith eu bod newydd recriwtio fferyllydd i ddod i weithio'n uniongyrchol yn y feddygfa ac roedden nhw'n egluro i mi nifer yr ymwelwyr dychwel y byddant nawr yn gallu eu gweld yn glinigol briodol ac yn gyflym oherwydd yr adnodd ychwanegol hwnnw. Felly, rwy'n cytuno'n llwyr â'r pwynt a wnaed, yn y gymuned ac yn uniongyrchol o fewn gofal sylfaenol, bod cyfraniad fferylliaeth yn hanfodol i'r ffordd yr ydym yn llunio'r gwasanaeth ar gyfer y dyfodol.

13:40
Cost Gynyddol Byw
The Rising Cost of Living

2. Pa asesiad y mae Llywodraeth Cymru wedi'i wneud o effaith y gost gynyddol o fyw ar bobl Gorllewin Casnewydd? OQ58804

2. What assessment has the Welsh Government made of the impact of the rising cost of living on the people of Newport West? OQ58804

Llywydd, people across Wales, including Newport West, are experiencing the biggest fall in living standards since records began. The economy has entered the early stages of recession as a result of the UK Government’s 12-year period of economic mismanagement. That will add rising unemployment to the challenges already faced by Newport West residents.

Llywydd, mae pobl ledled Cymru, gan gynnwys Gorllewin Casnewydd, yn profi'r gostyngiad mwyaf mewn safonau byw ers dechrau cofnodi. Mae'r economi wedi mynd i gyfnod cynnar dirwasgiad o ganlyniad i gyfnod o 12 mlynedd o gamreoli economaidd gan Lywodraeth y Deyrnas Unedig. Bydd hynny'n ychwanegu diweithdra cynyddol i'r heriau y mae trigolion Gorllewin Casnewydd yn eu hwynebu eisoes.

Diolch, Prif Weinidog. During this incredibly difficult time, it's vital that people have as much money in their pockets as possible. Day-to-day living costs plus unexpected expenses mean that injections of cash can be a huge lifeline. Both the Welsh Government and the UK Government have offered grants, but sadly, in many cases, people are unaware of what support they're entitled to or are deterred by complicated application processes. Ideally, payments could be made automatically to those who are eligible. At the moment, Newport is one of the councils that are trialling automatic payments for those eligible for the winter fuel scheme under the council tax reduction scheme. So, when budgets are tight for the Welsh Government and local government, working smartly is essential. We need to get the money we do have quickly and efficiently to the people who need it most. So, what action is the Welsh Government taking, working with local government, to ensure that this happens and that these essential payments are automated across Wales, rather than requiring applications?

Diolch, Prif Weinidog. Yn ystod y cyfnod hynod o anodd hwn, mae'n hanfodol bod gan bobl gymaint o arian yn eu pocedi â phosibl. Mae costau byw o ddydd i ddydd ynghyd â threuliau annisgwyl yn golygu y gall chwistrelliadau o arian parod fod yn achubiaeth enfawr. Mae Llywodraeth Cymru a Llywodraeth y DU wedi cynnig grantiau, ond yn anffodus, mewn llawer o achosion, nid yw pobl yn ymwybodol o ba gefnogaeth y mae ganddyn nhw hawl iddi neu maen nhw'n cael eu rhwystro gan brosesau gwneud cais cymhleth. Yn ddelfrydol, gellid gwneud taliadau yn awtomatig i'r rhai sy'n gymwys. Ar hyn o bryd, Casnewydd yw un o'r cynghorau sy'n treialu taliadau awtomatig i'r rhai sy'n gymwys ar gyfer y cynllun tanwydd gaeaf o dan gynllun gostyngiadau'r dreth gyngor. Felly, pan fydd cyllidebau Llywodraeth Cymru a llywodraeth leol yn dynn, mae gweithio mewn ffordd gall yn hanfodol. Mae angen i ni roi'r arian sydd gennym ni yn gyflym ac yn effeithlon i'r bobl sydd ei angen fwyaf. Felly, pa gamau y mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn eu cymryd, gan weithio gyda llywodraeth leol, i sicrhau bod hyn yn digwydd a bod y taliadau hanfodol hyn yn cael eu hawtomeiddio ledled Cymru, yn lle bod rhaid gwneud ceisiadau?

I thank Jayne Bryant for that. She's absolutely right to point out that millions and millions of pounds available to families across Wales go unclaimed every year. The Welsh Government, through our new cost-of-living sub-committee, has been promoting the notion that every contact should count in making sure that people are advised, encouraged and helped to claim the help that is available to them. Every single day in Wales, there are thousands of encounters between public sector workers and Welsh citizens, third sector organisations meet people every day, and there are private businesses, for example those in the financial inclusion sector, who do the same thing. I believe that every one of those encounters in this extraordinarily difficult winter represents an opportunity to make sure that people are getting the help that is available to them. It's genuinely not difficult, Llywydd—there are very simple calculators that people can use readily available. Citizens Advice has one that you can just go to online. There is one on the UK Government's platform that is very simple indeed to use, and if we use that 'every contact counts' mantra then I believe there is more we can do to make sure that the help that is there and not being taken up finds its way into people's pockets, and as a result finds its way into the Welsh economy as well in difficult times.

It's an important point that Jayne Bryant makes, Llywydd, as well about automaticity. Half the local authorities in Wales now have a system where if somebody applies for one of the benefits that are available through local authorities, that person doesn't need to claim separately for all the other things that the local authority could provide. So, if you are a claimant of council tax benefit, the local authority system will check whether you are entitled to free school meals. You won't be asked to fill in another set of forms—another set of barriers. Now, what we need to do is to make sure that the other half, the other 11 authorities, are moving in that direction. There's powerful leadership from the Welsh Local Government Association to make sure that that happens. And the evidence is very clear that if you have that system where you apply once and that one application opens the door to all the help that you are entitled to, that makes sure that that help gets to more people and more quickly. I would very much like to see that right across Wales.

Diolch i Jayne Bryant am hynna. Mae hi'n hollol iawn i nodi bod miliynau a miliynau o bunnau sydd ar gael i deuluoedd ledled Cymru heb eu hawlio bob blwyddyn. Mae Llywodraeth Cymru, drwy ein his-bwyllgor costau byw newydd, wedi bod yn hyrwyddo'r syniad y dylai pob cyswllt gyfrif wrth sicrhau bod pobl yn cael eu cynghori, eu hannog a'u helpu i hawlio'r cymorth sydd ar gael iddyn nhw. Bob dydd yng Nghymru, mae miloedd o gyfarfyddiadau rhwng gweithwyr yn y sector cyhoeddus a dinasyddion Cymru, mae sefydliadau'r trydydd sector yn cyfarfod â phobl bob dydd, ac mae busnesau preifat, er enghraifft y rhai yn y sector cynhwysiant ariannol, yn gwneud yr un peth. Credaf fod pob un o'r cyfarfyddiadau hynny yn y gaeaf eithriadol o anodd hwn yn gyfle i wneud yn siŵr bod pobl yn cael y cymorth sydd ar gael iddyn nhw. Nid yw'n anodd o gwbl, Llywydd—mae cyfrifianellau syml iawn y gall pobl eu defnyddio'n rhwydd. Mae gan Cyngor ar Bopeth un y gallwch chi ei defnyddio ar-lein. Mae un ar lwyfan Llywodraeth y DU sy'n rhwydd iawn yn wir i'w defnyddio, ac os defnyddiwn ni y mantra 'mae pob cyswllt yn cyfrif' yna rwy'n credu bod mwy y gallwn ni ei wneud i sicrhau bod y cymorth sydd yno a heb ei hawlio yn mynd i bocedi pobl, ac o ganlyniad yn mynd i mewn i economi Cymru hefyd mewn cyfnod anodd.

Mae Jayne Bryant yn gwneud pwynt pwysig hefyd, Llywydd, am awtomatigrwydd. Erbyn hyn mae gan hanner yr awdurdodau lleol yng Nghymru system pan fo rhywun yn gwneud cais am un o'r budd-daliadau sydd ar gael trwy awdurdodau lleol, does dim angen i'r unigolyn hwnnw hawlio ar wahân am yr holl bethau eraill y gallai'r awdurdod lleol eu darparu. Felly, os ydych yn hawlio budd-dal y dreth gyngor, bydd system yr awdurdodau lleol yn gwirio a oes gennych hawl i ginio ysgol am ddim. Ni ofynnir i chi lenwi set arall o ffurflenni—set arall o rwystrau. Nawr, yr hyn sydd angen i ni ei wneud yw sicrhau bod yr hanner arall, yr 11 awdurdod arall, yn symud i'r cyfeiriad hwnnw. Mae arweinyddiaeth bwerus gan Gymdeithas Llywodraeth Leol Cymru i wneud yn siŵr bod hynny'n digwydd. Ac mae'r dystiolaeth yn glir iawn, os yw'r system honno gennych chi pryd rydych chi'n gwneud cais unwaith a bod un cais yn agor y drws i'r holl gymorth y mae gennych hawl iddo, mae hynny'n sicrhau bod y cymorth hwnnw'n cyrraedd mwy o bobl a hynny'n gyflymach. Hoffwn yn fawr weld hynny ledled Cymru.

13:45

First Minister, from last week, millions of pensioners across the UK began to receive an initial £300 as the Conservative Government's pensioner cost-of-living payments began to be sent out. These payments will be made to over 11 million pensioners in receipt of the winter fuel payment, including some 15,600 pensioners in Newport West. In addition to this £300 uplift to the winter fuel payment, the energy price guarantee will help keep household energy bills as low as possible, saving the typical household £900 this winter. Households are also benefiting from a £400 grant automatically deducted from their energy bills, so do you agree, First Minister, that these measures to help pensioners as part of a wider support package to address rising energy bills will give people living in Newport West much-needed support this winter and protect the most vulnerable faced with rising prices? Thank you.

Prif Weinidog, o'r wythnos diwethaf ymlaen, dechreuodd miliynau o bensiynwyr ar draws y DU gael £300 cychwynnol wrth i daliadau costau byw pensiynwr y Llywodraeth Geidwadol ddechrau cael eu dosbarthu. Bydd y taliadau hyn yn cael eu gwneud i dros 11 miliwn o bensiynwyr sy'n cael y taliadau tanwydd gaeaf, gan gynnwys tua 15,600 o bensiynwyr yng Ngorllewin Casnewydd. Yn ogystal â'r cynnydd o £300 yn y taliadau tanwydd gaeaf, bydd y warant pris ynni yn helpu i gadw biliau ynni'r cartref mor isel â phosibl, gan arbed £900 i'r aelwyd nodweddiadol y gaeaf hwn. Mae aelwydydd hefyd yn elwa ar grant o £400 a ddidynnir yn awtomatig o'u biliau ynni, felly a ydych yn cytuno, Prif Weinidog, y bydd y mesurau hyn i helpu pensiynwyr fel rhan o becyn cymorth ehangach i fynd i'r afael â biliau ynni cynyddol yn rhoi cefnogaeth y mae gwir ei hangen i bobl sy'n byw yng Ngorllewin Casnewydd y gaeaf hwn ac yn diogelu'r rhai mwyaf agored i niwed sy'n wynebu prisiau cynyddol? Diolch.

Well, Llywydd, I welcome any help that is made available for pensioners and for other people who rely upon the state for their income. And I hope that those payments arrive as quickly as possible with people, because we know that, of all the groups in our society, pensioners are amongst the most anxious not to do things that land them with bills that they cannot pay. I said in answer to Jayne Bryant's original question about the millions of pounds that go unclaimed that the person in Wales who is least likely to claim the help to which they are entitled is a single woman aged over 75, and the reasons for that are complex, but it does demonstrate that particular efforts have to be made to make sure that the pensioner population in Wales gets every help that is available. When more help is available to them, then, of course, I welcome that.

Wel, Llywydd, rwy'n croesawu unrhyw gymorth sydd ar gael ar gyfer pensiynwyr ac i bobl eraill sy'n dibynnu ar y wladwriaeth am eu hincwm. Ac rwy'n gobeithio bod y taliadau hynny'n cyrraedd pobl mor gyflym â phosibl, oherwydd rydym ni'n gwybod, o'r holl grwpiau yn ein cymdeithas, fod pensiynwyr ymhlith y rhai sy'n pryderu fwyaf ynghylch gwneud pethau a fyddai'n arwain at filiau na allant eu talu. Mewn ateb i gwestiwn gwreiddiol Jayne Bryant ynghylch y miliynau o bunnau sydd heb ei hawlio, sef mai'r person yng Nghymru sydd leiaf tebygol o hawlio'r cymorth y mae ganddo hawl iddo yw menyw sengl dros 75 oed, ac mae'r rhesymau dros hynny yn gymhleth, ond mae'n dangos bod rhaid ymdrechu'n benodol i wneud yn siŵr bod y boblogaeth bensiynwyr yng Nghymru yn cael pob cymorth sydd ar gael. Pan fydd mwy o gymorth ar gael iddyn nhw, wedyn, wrth gwrs, rwy'n croesawu hynny.

Cwestiynau Heb Rybudd gan Arweinwyr y Pleidiau
Questions Without Notice from the Party Leaders

Cwestiynau nawr gan arweinwyr y pleidiau. Arweinydd y Ceidwadwyr Cymreig, Andrew R.T. Davies.

Questions now from the party leaders. Leader of the Welsh Conservatives, Andrew R.T. Davies.

Thank you, Presiding Officer. First of all, First Minister, I'm sure that you would like to join with me in wishing good luck to the Welsh team this evening, taking the Welsh flag onto the football field and hopefully, putting the ball in the back of the net several times against the old foe [Laughter.] Because, ultimately, we want our fans and, importantly, our team to stay out in Qatar longer and progress through the tournament.

If I could ask you, First Minister, at the beginning of October, the health Minister announced £2 million to improve accident and emergency waiting rooms and the conditions that the people turning up in those waiting rooms might experience. How is that roll-out going, because it was meant to be concluded ready for the winter months?

Diolch Llywydd. Yn gyntaf oll, Prif Weinidog, rwy'n siŵr yr hoffech chi ymuno â mi i ddymuno lwc dda i dîm Cymru heno, cario baner Cymru i'r cae pêl-droed a gobeithio, rhoi'r bêl yng nghefn y rhwyd sawl gwaith yn erbyn yr hen elyn [Chwerthin.] Oherwydd, yn y pen draw, rydym eisiau i'n cefnogwyr ac, yn bwysig iawn, ein tîm aros allan yn Qatar yn hirach a symud ymlaen drwy'r twrnamaint.

A gaf i ofyn i chi, Prif Weinidog, ddechrau mis Hydref, cyhoeddodd y Gweinidog iechyd £2 filiwn i wella ystafelloedd aros mewn adrannau damweiniau ac achosion brys a'r amgylchfyd y gallai'r bobl yn dod i'r ystafelloedd aros hynny ei brofi. Sut mae'r gwaith o gyflwyno hyn yn mynd yn ei flaen, oherwydd roedd i fod i ddod i ben er mwyn bod yn barod ar gyfer misoedd y gaeaf?

First of all, Llywydd, to associate myself exactly with what the leader of the opposition said in his opening remarks. He will know that I was able to be in Qatar this time last week. I was able to go and see the Welsh team train and to meet them in their preparations. They are the most fantastic group of people; we are really lucky to have them represent us on that world stage. Their commitment to one another, their sense of pride in representing Wales and their sense of what it means beyond football are absolutely apparent when you meet them. I think that we should be very proud indeed of the fans who are over there as well. Their sense of what it is to be Welsh when you are in a tournament of that sort is absolutely apparent when you are with them, and, of course, I'm sure, right around the Chamber, everybody hopes that that will translate tonight into success on the field.

To turn to the substantive question, indeed, the Minister did announce £2.7 million to health boards. It's been allocated, it is with health boards. I have seen myself the measures that health boards intend to take. Every health board has had to identify the way in which it will spend the money, and those lists are in and have been approved, and action now needs to be taken to make sure that that money is put to best use. I don't think we can be completely confident that everywhere, that money is yet making the difference that it needs to make, but now it is for health boards to make sure that, with the resource provided, with the plans approved, that makes the difference on the ground, so that patients attending our A&E departments have those basic standards of decency to which they are surely entitled.

Yn gyntaf oll, Llywydd, hoffwn ategu'r hyn a ddywedodd arweinydd yr wrthblaid yn ei sylwadau agoriadol. Bydd yn gwybod y bûm yn Qatar yr adeg yma'r wythnos diwethaf. Cefais gyfle i fynd i weld tîm Cymru yn hyfforddi a chwrdd â nhw yn eu paratoadau. Maen nhw'n grŵp mwyaf ffantastig o bobl; rydym ni'n ffodus iawn i'w cael nhw i'n cynrychioli ni ar y llwyfan byd hwnnw. Mae eu hymrwymiad i'w gilydd, eu teimlad o falchder o gynrychioli Cymru a'u synnwyr o'r hyn y mae'n ei olygu y tu hwnt i bêl-droed yn gwbl amlwg pan fyddwch chi'n cwrdd â nhw. Credaf y dylem fod yn falch iawn yn wir o'r cefnogwyr sydd draw yno hefyd. Mae eu synnwyr nhw o beth yw hi i fod yn Gymry pan y'ch chi mewn twrnamaint o'r math yna yn gwbl amlwg pan fyddwch chi gyda nhw, ac, wrth gwrs, rwy'n siŵr, ar draws y Siambr, fod pawb yn gobeithio y bydd hynny'n trosi heno i lwyddiant ar y maes.

I droi at y cwestiwn dan sylw, yn wir, fe wnaeth y Gweinidog gyhoeddi £2.7 miliwn i fyrddau iechyd. Mae wedi'i ddyrannu, mae wedi cyrraedd y byrddau iechyd. Rydw i wedi gweld fy hun y mesurau y mae'r byrddau iechyd yn bwriadu eu cymryd. Mae pob bwrdd iechyd wedi gorfod nodi'r ffordd y bydd yn gwario'r arian, ac mae'r rhestrau hynny i mewn ac wedi cael eu cymeradwyo, a bellach mae angen gweithredu i sicrhau bod yr arian hwnnw'n cael ei ddefnyddio yn y ffordd orau. Nid wyf yn credu y gallwn ni fod yn gwbl ffyddiog bod yr arian hwnnw yn gwneud y gwahaniaeth y mae angen iddo ei wneud hyd yma, ond nawr mae'n rhaid i fyrddau iechyd wneud yn siŵr, gyda'r adnodd a ddarperir, gyda'r cynlluniau wedi'u cymeradwyo, bod hynny'n gwneud y gwahaniaeth ar lawr gwlad, fel bod gan gleifion sy'n dod i'n hadrannau damweiniau ac achosion brys y safonau sylfaenol hynny y mae ganddyn nhw'r hawl iddyn nhw.

13:50

Thank you for that answer, First Minister. In one breath, it's pleasing to hear that the lists are in—I think that was your terminology—but, regrettably, anyone who looked at Twitter over the weekend would have seen the trail of experience that people were having at the Heath hospital's A&E waiting time room. On your way in, you were greeted by a pile of vomit on the floor, a mountain of cigarette butts on top of a bin, a sanitary provision in a toilet that was overflowing, and a vending machine that had three items of food in there to provide some relief for the times that people were waiting. Also, there were broken chairs in the environment, which the photographs attest to. This really does show how difficult the environment is that people are being asked to wait in.

Now, you and I could debate at length about staffing rotas and other provisions, but, if health boards are unable to get the basics right and, in particular, when you've made money available, is it any wonder that people get very frustrated and very upset when they have that experience in Wales's largest A&E department? But, regrettably, I doubt that's an isolated incident from other A&E departments, and I'd very much hope that the Government can give us some assurance today that you're bearing down on the health boards to make sure that that money is spent, the improvements are made and the experience that both staff and patients will have will greatly improve in the coming weeks. 

Diolch am yr ateb yna, Prif Weinidog. Mewn un anadl, mae'n braf clywed bod y rhestrau i mewn—rwy'n credu mai dyna'r derminoleg a ddefnyddioch chi—ond, yn anffodus, byddai unrhyw un a edrychodd ar Twitter dros y penwythnos wedi gweld y llwybr o brofiadau yr oedd pobl yn eu cael yn ystafell aros adran ddamweiniau ac achosion brys Ysbyty Athrofaol Cymru. Ar eich ffordd i mewn, roedd pentwr o gyfog ar y llawr yn eich croesawu, mynydd o stympiau sigaréts ar ben bin, eitemau ar gyfer y mislif mewn toiled a oedd yn orlawn, a pheiriant gwerthu a oedd â thair eitem o fwyd ynddo i roi rhywfaint o ryddhad i'r bobl wrth iddyn nhw aros. Hefyd, roedd cadeiriau wedi torri yn yr amgylchfyd hwnnw, ac mae'r ffotograffau'n tystio iddyn nhw. Mae hyn wir yn dangos pa mor anodd yw'r amgylchfyd y gofynnir i bobl aros ynddo.

Nawr, gallech chi a minnau drafod yn helaeth y rotâu staffio a darpariaethau eraill, ond, os nad yw byrddau iechyd yn gallu cael y pethau sylfaenol yn iawn ac, yn arbennig, pan fyddwch chi wedi sicrhau bod arian ar gael, pa ryfedd bod pobl yn mynd yn rhwystredig iawn ac yn ofidus iawn pan fyddant yn cael y profiad hwnnw yn adran ddamweiniau ac achosion brys mwyaf Cymru? Ond, yn anffodus, rwy'n amau nad digwyddiad ynysig o ran adrannau damweiniau ac achosion brys yw hwn, a byddwn i'n gobeithio'n fawr y gall y Llywodraeth roi rhywfaint o sicrwydd i ni heddiw eich bod yn dwyn pwysau ar y byrddau iechyd i wneud yn siŵr y bydd yr arian hwnnw'n cael ei wario, bydd gwelliannau'n cael eu gwneud a bydd y profiad i staff a'r cleifion wedi gwella'n fawr yn ystod yr wythnosau nesaf. 

Well, I certainly expect those improvements to be made, and I'd certainly expect to see them at the accident and emergency department at the Heath hospital—a new unit with significant investment from the Welsh Government within the last five years or so. So, this is not an old building, unfit for modern conditions; this was a building provided to be fit for the current sorts of services that you'd expect an A&E department of that sort to provide.

However, Llywydd, some of the things that the leader of the opposition has read out demonstrate the challenges that staff in A&E departments face, because it wasn't the health service that vomited on the way into the A&E department, and it wasn't health staff who left cigarette butts all over the front of it. So, I think, as well as, quite rightly, demanding that basic things are properly attended to, and the money that's provided well spent, some consideration is also to be given to the conditions in which staff themselves have to work. And, if you've been—as I'm sure the leader of the opposition has been—to the Heath, you will know just what a volume comes through that door. The percentage of people who come there because of alcohol misuse, the behaviour that members of staff have to deal with from a significant minority—it is a minority, but it's there to be seen whenever you are there—of people for whom they are seeking to provide care. And while the health board has—and I completely accept—a real responsibility to do everything that they can, patients have a responsibility as well. And some of the things that people complained about—and I understand why they did—at the weekend, were the actions of fellow patients, not the actions of the health board itself.

Wel, rwy'n sicr yn disgwyl i'r gwelliannau hynny gael eu gwneud, a byddwn yn sicr yn disgwyl eu gweld yn yr adran ddamweiniau ac achosion brys yn Ysbyty Athrofaol Cymru—uned newydd gyda buddsoddiad sylweddol gan Lywodraeth Cymru o fewn y pum mlynedd diwethaf. Felly, nid hen adeilad yw hwn, sy'n anaddas ar gyfer amgylchfyd modern; roedd hwn yn adeilad a ddarparwyd i fod yn addas ar gyfer y mathau presennol o wasanaethau y byddech yn disgwyl i adran ddamweiniau ac achosion brys o'r fath eu darparu.

Fodd bynnag, Llywydd, mae rhai o'r pethau y mae arweinydd yr wrthblaid wedi'u darllen i ni yn dangos yr heriau y mae staff yn yr adrannau damweiniau ac achosion brys yn eu hwynebu, oherwydd nid y gwasanaeth iechyd a chwydodd ar y ffordd i mewn i'r adran ddamweiniau ac achosion brys, ac nid staff iechyd a adawodd stympiau sigaréts ar draws y fynedfa. Felly, rwy'n credu, yn ogystal â mynnu, yn briodol, yr ymdrinnir yn iawn â phethau sylfaenol, a bod yr arian sy'n cael ei ddarparu yn cael ei wario'n iawn, mae'n rhaid hefyd ystyried yr amodau y mae'r staff eu hunain yn gorfod gweithio o danyn nhw. Ac, os ydych chi wedi bod—fel rwy'n siŵr bod arweinydd yr wrthblaid—i'r Ysbyty Athrofaol, byddwch chi'n gwybod am y niferoedd sy'n mynd trwy'r drws hwnnw. Y ganran o bobl sy'n dod yno oherwydd camddefnyddio alcohol, ymddygiad y lleiafrif y mae'n rhaid i aelodau staff ymdrin ag ef—lleiafrif ydyw, ond mae yno i'w weld pryd bynnag yr ewch chi yno—pobl y maen nhw'n ceisio darparu gofal ar eu cyfer. Ac er bod gan y bwrdd iechyd—ac rwy'n derbyn yn llwyr—wir gyfrifoldeb i wneud popeth o fewn ei allu, mae gan gleifion gyfrifoldeb hefyd. Ac roedd rhai o'r pethau yr oedd pobl yn cwyno amdanyn nhw—ac rwy'n deall pam y gwnaethon nhw—ar y penwythnos, yn weithredoedd cyd-gleifion, nid gweithredoedd y bwrdd iechyd ei hun.

I accept that it's a joint responsibility, but when people are waiting 12, 17 or, indeed, as my colleague next to me Darren Millar from Clwyd West said, he met someone who'd waited 40 hours in an A&E department at Glan Clwyd hospital, it is a fact that the condition they might have turned up in has greatly deteriorated over the time they've had to wait in that waiting room, or in that environment or setting. Several times I've raised with you, First Minister, the ability to get consultants and doctors in particular into A&E departments across Wales, which would greatly facilitate the speed that people progress through the A&E department. The Royal College of Emergency Medicine has a baseline for staffing for an emergency department here in Wales and, indeed, across the United Kingdom. Can you confirm today whether all emergency departments are meeting that baseline? And if they're not meeting that baseline, what are you doing to make sure that they do, because surely you'd agree with me that if they don't meet the staffing baseline, that's creating an environment that isn't safe?

Rwy'n derbyn mai cyfrifoldeb ar y cyd yw e, ond pan fo pobl yn aros 12, 17 neu, yn wir, fel y dywedodd fy nghyd-Aelod wrth fy ymyl i Darren Millar o Orllewin Clwyd, ei fod wedi cyfarfod â rhywun oedd wedi aros 40 awr mewn adran ddamweiniau ac achosion brys yn ysbyty Glan Clwyd, mae'n ffaith y byddai'r cyflwr a oedd arno pan gyrhaeddodd yno wedi dirywio'n fawr yn ystod y cyfnod yr oedd yn gorfod aros yn yr ystafell aros honno, neu yn yr amgylchfyd neu'r lleoliad hwnnw. Rwyf wedi codi'r pwynt sawl gwaith gyda chi, Prif Weinidog, sef y gallu i gael meddygon ymgynghorol a meddygon yn benodol i mewn i adrannau damweiniau ac achosion brys ledled Cymru, a fyddai'n hwyluso'n fawr pa mor gyflym y byddai pobl yn symud drwy'r adran ddamweiniau ac achosion brys. Mae gan y Coleg Brenhinol Meddygaeth Frys waelodlin ar gyfer staffio adran frys yma yng Nghymru ac, yn wir, ar draws y Deyrnas Unedig. A wnewch chi gadarnhau heddiw bod pob adran frys yn bodloni'r waelodlin honno? Ac os nad ydyn nhw'n ei bodloni, beth ydych chi'n ei wneud i sicrhau eu bod nhw'n ei bodloni, oherwydd heb os, byddech chi'n cytuno â mi, os nad ydyn nhw'n bodloni'r waelodlin staffio, mae hynny'n creu amgylchfyd anniogel?

13:55

I should point out at the start, Llywydd, that the median waiting time for somebody in an A&E department in Wales is two hours and 50 minutes, so the standard wait before you are seen and treated is actually two hours and 50 minutes. I know that it doesn't suit people always to have the facts, and, of course, people do wait longer than that, but the standard waiting time—the median waiting time—is the one that I've just quoted to you.

I'll write to the leader of the opposition, of course, in relation to staffing matters, because I don't have that information immediately to hand. Staffing A&E departments is a challenge in every part of the United Kingdom. It's a particular sort of clinician who feels that their skills are best deployed in that very demanding environment, when you never know what you're going to be seeing next and you never know whether what you're seeing next is something that you can deal with quickly and effectively, or whether it's a genuine emergency that requires the concentrated efforts of the whole of the hospital team. Those skills are not to be found in every clinician by any means, and, right across the United Kingdom, finding people who think that their contribution to the health service is best made in emergency departments is a challenge. But, I will write to the leader of the opposition with the figures that he was looking for. 

Dylwn i nodi ar y dechrau, Llywydd, bod yr amser aros canolrifol i rywun mewn adran ddamweiniau ac achosion brys yng Nghymru yn ddwy awr a 50 munud, felly yr amser aros safonol cyn cael eich gweld a'ch trin yw dwy awr a 50 munud mewn gwirionedd. Rwy'n gwybod nad yw cael y ffeithiau'n siwtio pobl bob amser, ac, wrth gwrs, mae pobl yn aros yn hirach na hynny, ond yr amser aros safonol—yr amser aros canolrifol—yw'r un yr ydw i newydd ei ddyfynnu i chi.

Fe  ysgrifennaf at arweinydd yr wrthblaid, wrth gwrs, mewn cysylltiad â materion staffio, oherwydd nid yw'r wybodaeth honno gennyf i wrth law. Mae staffio adrannau damweiniau ac achosion brys yn her ym mhob rhan o'r Deyrnas Unedig. Mae'n fath arbennig o glinigwr sy'n teimlo bod ei sgiliau'n cael eu defnyddio orau yn yr amgylchfyd heriol iawn hwnnw, pan nad ydych chi byth yn gwybod beth yr ydych chi'n mynd i'w weld nesaf ac nad ydych byth yn gwybod a yw'r hyn a welwch chi nesaf yn rhywbeth y gallwch chi ei drin yn gyflym ac yn effeithiol, neu a yw'n argyfwng gwirioneddol sy'n gofyn am ymdrechion dwys tîm yr ysbyty cyfan. Nid yw'r sgiliau hynny gan bob clinigwr o bell ffordd, ac ar draws y Deyrnas Unedig, mae dod o hyd i bobl sy'n credu bod eu cyfraniad i'r gwasanaeth iechyd yn cael ei wneud orau mewn adrannau brys yn her. Ond, fe ysgrifennaf at arweinydd yr wrthblaid i roi'r ffigyrau yr oedd yn gofyn amdanyn nhw. 

Arweinydd Plaid Cymru, Adam Price.

Leader of Plaid Cymru, Adam Price.

Diolch, Llywydd. First Minister, today, Cymru meets England as an equal and independent footballing nation on the field of play in Qatar, and I'm sure that we're all praying for what would be the most famous of victories. But, are we equal nations on the fields of power and politics? That's the question raised by last week's Supreme Court judgment. You've said previously that the United Kingdom should now be seen as a voluntary association of nations. Do you agree with your counterpart in Scotland that last week's judgment means that the United Kingdom is not currently, at least, a voluntary partnership, when Westminster not just possesses a legal veto on self-determination but is politically determined, it seems, to using it?

The Counsel General said last week that the best means of ensuring positive constitutional change would be the election of a Labour Government. Should that Government, in your view, commit to creating a clear and guaranteed route for a constituent nation of the UK to hold an independence referendum where there is an explicit mandate in its favour? 

Diolch, Llywydd. Prif Weinidog, heddiw mae Cymru yn cwrdd â Lloegr fel cenedl bêl-droed gyfartal ac annibynnol ar faes chwarae yn Qatar, ac rwy'n siŵr ein bod ni gyd yn gweddïo am yr hyn a fyddai'r enwocaf o fuddugoliaethau. Ond, a ydym yn genhedloedd cyfartal ar feysydd grym a gwleidyddiaeth? Dyna'r cwestiwn a godwyd gan ddyfarniad y Goruchaf Lys yr wythnos diwethaf. Dywedoch o'r blaen y dylai'r Deyrnas Unedig gael ei gweld nawr fel cymdeithas wirfoddol o genhedloedd. Ydych chi'n cytuno â'ch Gweinidog cyfatebol yn yr Alban bod dyfarniad yr wythnos diwethaf yn golygu nad yw'r Deyrnas Unedig ar hyn o bryd, o leiaf, yn bartneriaeth wirfoddol, pan fo San Steffan nid yn unig yn meddu ar feto gyfreithiol ar hunanbenderfyniaeth ond yn benderfynol yn wleidyddol, mae'n ymddangos, o'i defnyddio?

Dywedodd y Cwnsler Cyffredinol yr wythnos diwethaf mai'r ffordd orau o sicrhau newid cyfansoddiadol positif fyddai ethol Llywodraeth Lafur. A ddylai'r Llywodraeth honno, yn eich barn chi, ymrwymo i greu llwybr clir a gwarantedig i genedl gyfansoddol y DU gynnal refferendwm annibyniaeth pan fo mandad penodol o'i blaid? 

Well, Llywydd, I agree, of course, with what my colleague, the Counsel General, said: that there is a great deal of constitutional repair that needs to be made to the United Kingdom and that the next Labour Government will have a real responsibility to make sure that that happens. I had an opportunity only yesterday evening to discuss the forthcoming Gordon Brown review with the leader of the opposition at Westminster. I agree with what Mick Antoniw said about the responsibility that will fall to that next Labour Government.

Llywydd, the position of the Welsh Government remains that set out in 'Reforming our Union'; it has been our position for a number of years. Colleagues here will remember that what we said in that document was that,

'provided a government in either country has secured an explicit electoral mandate for the holding of a referendum, and enjoys continuing support from its Parliament to do so, it is entitled to expect the UK Parliament to take whatever action is necessary to ensure that the appropriate arrangements can be made.'

So, that's been our position and it remains our position. 

Wel, Llywydd, rwy'n cytuno, wrth gwrs, â'r hyn a ddywedodd fy nghyd-Weinidog, y Cwnsler Cyffredinol: bod llawer iawn o waith atgyweirio cyfansoddiadol angen ei wneud i'r Deyrnas Unedig ac y bydd gan y Llywodraeth Lafur nesaf gyfrifoldeb gwirioneddol i sicrhau bod hynny'n digwydd. Cefais gyfle dim ond neithiwr i drafod adolygiad Gordon Brown sydd ar ddod gydag arweinydd yr wrthblaid yn San Steffan. Rwy'n cytuno gyda'r hyn ddywedodd Mick Antoniw am y cyfrifoldeb fydd yn syrthio ar ysgwyddau'r Llywodraeth Lafur nesaf honno.

Llywydd, mae safbwynt Llywodraeth Cymru yn parhau i fod yr un a nodir yn 'Diwygio ein Hundeb'; hwn yw ein safbwynt ni ers nifer o flynyddoedd. Bydd cyd-Aelodau yma yn cofio mai'r hyn ddywedom ni yn y ddogfen honno oedd,

'ar yr amod bod y llywodraeth yn y naill wlad neu'r llall wedi sicrhau mandad etholiadol pendant ar gyfer cynnal refferendwm, a bod ei senedd yn parhau i’w chefnogi i wneud hynny, bod hawl ganddi ddisgwyl i Senedd y DU gymryd y camau sy’n angenrheidiol i sicrhau bod modd gwneud y trefniadau priodol.'

Felly, dyna fu ein safbwynt ni ac mae'n parhau felly. 

In the conversation that you had with Sir Keir Starmer, did he reiterate the comments that he made in an interview earlier this month, which were confirmed by his official spokesperson following the judgment last week, that he would not agree to an independence referendum in Scotland following the next general election? Is that not a denial of democracy? And on that theme, what do you, First Minister, understand to be the position of the UK Labour Party as to the devolution of justice? They opposed it in the Wales Act deliberations in 2017. Asked this morning in Westminster Hall whether they supported it now, shadow justice Minister Anna McMorrin could only say a UK Labour Government would work in partnership with the Welsh Labour Government, but the focus would be on looking not at

'where justice is delivered, but on how it's delivered.'

Is that also not a denial of democracy? It’s certainly hardly a ringing endorsement of the mandate that you won at the 2021 election.

Yn y sgwrs a gawsoch gyda Syr Keir Starmer, a wnaeth ef ailadrodd y sylwadau a wnaeth mewn cyfweliad yn gynharach y mis hwn, a gadarnhawyd gan ei lefarydd swyddogol yn dilyn y dyfarniad yr wythnos diwethaf, na fyddai'n cytuno i refferendwm annibyniaeth yn yr Alban yn dilyn yr etholiad cyffredinol nesaf? Onid gwarafun democratiaeth yw hynny? Ac ar y thema honno, beth ydych chi, Prif Weinidog, yn deall yw safbwynt Plaid Lafur y DU o ran datganoli cyfiawnder? Fe wnaethant ei wrthwynebu yn y trafodaethau ar Ddeddf Cymru yn 2017. Pan ofynnwyd y bore 'ma yn Neuadd San Steffan a oedden nhw'n ei gefnogi nawr, gallai Gweinidog cyfiawnder yr wrthblaid, Anna McMorrin, dim ond dweud y byddai Llywodraeth Lafur y DU yn gweithio mewn partneriaeth â Llywodraeth Lafur Cymru, ond byddai'r pwyslais, nid ar

'ble mae cyfiawnder yn cael ei gyflawni, ond ar sut y mae'n cael ei gyflawni.'

Onid gwarafun democratiaeth yw hynny hefyd? Yn sicr, go brin ei fod yn gymeradwyaeth i'r mandad a enilloch chi yn etholiad 2021.

14:00

Llywydd, I also had the opportunity to discuss with Anna McMorrin yesterday evening the debate to which she would be replying. I’m very glad indeed that she emphasised, as I hoped she would, the importance of a partnership between the next Labour Government and the Labour Government here, because it’s only in that way that we will ever see the transfer of responsibility for justice matters, which is the policy of this Government, which was contained in the Labour manifesto in the 2017 and 2019 general elections. So, I’m very glad to see that that was so very firmly put on the record by our Labour colleague at Westminster Hall.

Matters in Scotland are matters for the Scottish Labour Party and for the leader of the party to navigate. I hear what the leader of the Labour Party in Scotland says, which is that a referendum is a matter of timing and, quite certainly in the view of the Scottish Labour Party, now is not the moment when people in Scotland have their minds focused on constitutional matters when they have a winter of the sort that they see stretching out in front of them.

Llywydd, cefais gyfle hefyd i drafod gydag Anna McMorrin neithiwr y ddadl y byddai'n ateb iddi. Rwy'n falch iawn yn wir ei bod hi wedi pwysleisio, fel yr oeddwn i yn gobeithio y byddai hi, bwysigrwydd partneriaeth rhwng y Llywodraeth Lafur nesaf a'r Llywodraeth Lafur yma, oherwydd dim ond yn y ffordd honno y byddwn ni byth yn gweld trosglwyddo cyfrifoldeb am faterion cyfiawnder, sef polisi'r Llywodraeth hon, a gafodd ei gynnwys ym maniffesto Llafur yn etholiadau cyffredinol 2017 a 2019. Felly, rwy'n falch iawn o weld bod hynny wedi cael ei roi mor gadarn iawn ar gofnod gan ein cydweithiwr Llafur yn Neuadd San Steffan.

Mae materion yn yr Alban yn faterion i Blaid Lafur yr Alban ac i arweinydd y blaid eu llywio. Rwy'n clywed beth mae arweinydd y Blaid Lafur yn yr Alban yn ei ddweud, sef bod refferendwm yn fater o amseru ac, yn gwbl sicr ym marn Plaid Lafur yr Alban, nid nawr yw'r foment pan fo pobl yn yr Alban yn canolbwyntio ar faterion cyfansoddiadol pan fydd ganddyn nhw aeaf o'r math y maen nhw'n ei weld yn ymestyn o'u blaenau.

So, you’ve changed your view, then, from the summer, when you said:

'The SNP...won an election on the basis they would seek another referendum. How can that be denied to the Scottish people?'

And Anna McMorrin was directly asked whether she was prepared to commit to the devolution of justice, and she was not prepared to give that commitment.

Now, can I turn to the consequences for Wales from the judgment last week? In particular, is it the Welsh Government’s view that you still hold an Executive power to hold referenda, including, if you so choose, on constitutional matters, using secondary legislation? Section 64 of the Government of Wales Act enables Ministers to hold a poll on how their functions are exercised, and section 60 enables Ministers to do anything that they believe is necessary to improve the well-being of Wales. So, would holding a poll on the constitutional future of Wales using secondary legislation, and therefore immune to legal challenge on competence, be permissible, potentially, using this route in your view?

Felly, rydych chi wedi newid eich barn ers yr haf, pan ddywedoch chi:

'Enillodd yr SNP...etholiad ar y sail y bydden nhw'n ceisio refferendwm arall. Sut gellir gwarafun hynny i bobl yr Alban?'

A gofynnwyd yn uniongyrchol i Anna McMorrin a oedd hi'n barod i ymrwymo i ddatganoli cyfiawnder, ac nid oedd hi'n fodlon rhoi'r ymrwymiad hwnnw.

Nawr, a gaf i droi at y canlyniadau i Gymru yn sgil y dyfarniad yr wythnos diwethaf? Yn benodol, ai barn Llywodraeth Cymru yw eich bod yn dal i fod â phŵer Gweithredol i gynnal refferenda, gan gynnwys, os ydych chi'n dewis, ar faterion cyfansoddiadol, gan ddefnyddio deddfwriaeth eilaidd? Mae adran 64 o Ddeddf Llywodraeth Cymru yn galluogi Gweinidogion i gynnal arolwg barn ar sut caiff eu swyddogaethau eu harfer, ac mae adran 60 yn galluogi Gweinidogion i wneud unrhyw beth y maen nhw'n credu sy'n angenrheidiol er mwyn gwella llesiant Cymru. Felly, a fyddai cynnal arolwg barn ar ddyfodol cyfansoddiadol Cymru drwy ddefnyddio deddfwriaeth eilaidd, ac felly'n ddiogel rhag heriau cyfreithiol ynghylch cymhwysedd, yn cael ei ganiatáu o bosibl, drwy ddefnyddio'r llwybr hwn yn eich barn chi?

First of all, Llywydd, let me be clear: I have not changed my mind on what I said in the summer, and the extract from ‘Reforming our Union’ made that very clear. The issue of timing is a separate issue to the basic one of whether a referendum should be held, and, as far as what Anna McMorrin will have said today, she will be anticipating the publication of the Gordon Brown report and will not wish to go beyond what she will know about what it may say on these matters. I look forward to the publication of the report and to it finding a way for us to move forward on the ambition of this Chamber and the ambition set out in Labour Party manifestos to begin the process of transferring responsibilities for justice services here to Wales.

As to whether or not the Welsh settlement offers us a different route to holding a referendum than the one tested by the Scottish Government in the courts, well, as the Counsel General said when he answered a question from the leader of Plaid Cymru last week, we are studying the judgment and we are making sure that we get advice in the round as to where that judgment impinges on the responsibilities and possibilities of the Senedd. I don’t know enough to be sure that I can answer the leader of Plaid Cymru’s question in all its detail. I have a suspicion that it will not be quite as straightforward as he might think—that what the court in the Scottish case tested was whether, in exercising functions, the Scottish Parliament would be within the ambit of its own devolved responsibilities, and I imagine that the same test would apply to our powers as well, even through secondary legislation and even if you attempted to frame it within that very broad ambit of responsibility for the well-being of people here in Wales. But, as the Counsel General said, we are taking detailed advice on the relationship between the Scottish question, as tested in the Supreme Court, and the powers that we have here in Wales, and I'll make sure that the point raised by the leader of Plaid Cymru this afternoon is tested in that advice. 

Yn gyntaf oll, Llywydd, gadewch i mi fod yn glir: nid wyf wedi newid fy meddwl ynghylch yr hyn a ddywedais yn yr haf, a gwnaeth y dyfyniad o 'Diwygio ein Hundeb' hynny'n glir iawn. Mae'r mater o amseru yn fater ar wahân i'r un sylfaenol sef a ddylid cynnal refferendwm, ac, cyn belled â'r hyn y bydd Anna McMorrin wedi'i ddweud heddiw, bydd yn disgwyl i adroddiad Gordon Brown gael ei gyhoeddi ac ni fydd yn dymuno mynd y tu hwnt i'r hyn y bydd hi'n ei wybod am yr hyn y gallai fod yn ei ddweud am y materion hyn. Edrychaf ymlaen at gyhoeddi'r adroddiad ac iddo ddod o hyd i ffordd i ni symud ymlaen o ran uchelgais y Siambr hon a'r uchelgais a nodir ym maniffestos y Blaid Lafur i ddechrau'r broses o drosglwyddo cyfrifoldebau dros wasanaethau cyfiawnder yma i Gymru.

O ran p'un a yw'r setliad Cymreig yn cynnig llwybr gwahanol i ni gynnal refferendwm na'r un a brofwyd gan Lywodraeth yr Alban yn y llysoedd, wel, fel y dywedodd y Cwnsler Cyffredinol pan atebodd gwestiwn gan arweinydd Plaid Cymru yr wythnos diwethaf, rydym yn astudio'r dyfarniad ac rydym yn sicrhau ein bod yn cael cyngor cyffredinol o ran lle mae'r dyfarniad hwnnw'n amharu ar gyfrifoldebau a phosibiliadau'r Senedd. Ni wn i ddigon i fod yn sicr y gallaf ateb cwestiwn arweinydd Plaid Cymru yn ei holl fanylder. Mae gennyf i amheuaeth na fydd mor syml ag y mae ef yn ei feddwl efallai—mai'r hyn a brofodd y llys yn achos yr Alban oedd a fyddai Senedd yr Alban, wrth arfer swyddogaethau, o fewn cwmpas ei chyfrifoldebau datganoledig ei hun, ac rwy'n dychmygu y byddai'r un prawf yn berthnasol i'n pwerau hefyd, hyd yn oed drwy ddeddfwriaeth eilaidd a hyd yn oed os oeddech chi'n ceisio ei fframio o fewn y cwmpas eang iawn yna o gyfrifoldeb am lesiant pobl yma yng Nghymru. Ond, fel dywedodd y Cwnsler Cyffredinol, rydym yn derbyn cyngor manwl ar y berthynas rhwng y cwestiwn Albanaidd, fel cafodd ei brofi yn y Goruchaf Lys, a'r pwerau sydd gennym ni yma yng Nghymru, ac fe fyddaf yn sicrhau bod y pwynt a godwyd gan arweinydd Plaid Cymru y prynhawn yma yn cael ei brofi yn y cyngor hwnnw. 

14:05
Dyfodol Neuadd Dewi Sant
The Future of St David's Hall

3. Pa drafodaethau y mae Llywodraeth Cymru wedi'u cael gyda Chyngor Caerdydd ynglŷn â dyfodol Neuadd Dewi Sant? OQ58805

3. What discussions has the Welsh Government had with Cardiff Council regarding the future of St David's Hall? OQ58805

Diolch i'r Aelod am y cwestiwn, Llywydd. Mater i Gyngor Caerdydd yw dyfodol y neuadd. Bydd unrhyw ymgysylltiad gan Lywodraeth Cymru yn cael ei gynnal trwy Gyngor Celfyddydau Cymru, ac mae disgwyl i'r awdurdod lleol gwrdd â'r cyngor i drafod dyfodol y neuadd ar ddydd Iau yr wythnos hon.

I thank the Member for the question, Llywydd. The future of the venue is an issue for Cardiff Council. Any engagement with the Welsh Government will be undertaken through the Arts Council of Wales, and the local authority is expected to meet the council to discuss the future of the hall on Thursday this week.

Diolch yn fawr, Brif Weinidog. Dwi'n gwybod o'ch ymddangosiad ar Beti a'i Phobol eich bod chi'n gerddorol iawn. Dwi hefyd yn gwybod, o fod yn y brifysgol gydag arweinydd Cyngor Caerdydd, fod e'n gerddor amryddawn hefyd. Fel byddwch chi'n gwybod fel cerddor, mae addysg a phrofiadau cerddorol yn hollbwysig, ac, fel neuadd gyngerdd genedlaethol Cymru, mae Neuadd Dewi Sant wedi cynnig profiadau gwych i blant ysgol ar hyd y blynyddoedd. Dwi'n gallu dweud fy hunan, trwy Urdd Gobaith Cymru a thrwy'r ysgol, i mi allu perfformio ar lwyfan y neuadd honno. A ydych chi felly, Brif Weinidog, yn bryderus pe byddai Live Nation Inc o Beverley Hills yn cymryd rheolaeth dros Neuadd Dewi Sant na fyddai plant Cymru o hynny ymlaen yn gallu cael yr un profiadau? Diolch yn fawr. 

Thank you, First Minister. I know from your appearance on Beti a'i Phobol that you are very musical yourself. I also know, having been in university with the leader of Cardiff Council, that he's a talented musician too. As you will know as a musician, musical education and experiences are crucially important, and, as a national concert hall for Wales, St David's Hall has provided excellent opportunities for schoolchildren across the years. I can say myself, through Urdd Gobaith Cymru and the school, that I was able to perform on the stage of St David's Hall. So, First Minister, are you concerned that if Live Nation Inc from Beverley Hills were to take control of St David's Hall that the children of Wales from that point onwards wouldn't have the same experiences? Thank you.  

Llywydd, mae'n rhy gynnar i bryderu dwi'n meddwl, achos dŷn ni ddim yn gwybod digon o fanylion. Dwi wedi cael cyfle heddiw i siarad ag arweinydd y cyngor yma yng Nghaerdydd, a dwi'n siŵr fod e'n ymwybodol o bob pwynt mae Rhys ab Owen wedi eu codi. So, mae'n gwneud y gwaith gyda nid jest un cwmni ond mwy nag un cwmni sydd wedi dangos diddordeb i gydweithio â'r cyngor dros ddyfodol Neuadd Dewi Sant. Dwi'n gwybod bod arweinydd y cyngor wedi rhoi gwahoddiad i bob Aelod Senedd lleol i gwrdd â fe i glywed am y trafodaethau, a dwi'n siŵr, ar ôl cael y cyfle i siarad gyda Huw Thomas, ei fod e'n benderfynol, os bydd rhyw fath o gytundeb am y dyfodol, i warchod nid jest beth mae'r ysgolion yn ei wneud ar hyn o bryd yn y neuadd, ond defnydd y gymuned i gyd o rywbeth sy'n hollbwysig i fywyd pobl sy'n byw yn y brifddinas.  

I think it's too early to be concerned, Llywydd, because we don't know enough details. I've had an opportunity today to speak to the council leader here in Cardiff, and I'm sure that he's aware of every point that Rhys ab Owen has raised. So, they are doing the work with not just one company but with more than one company that has shown an interest in collaborating with the council on the future of St David's Hall. I know that the council leader has invited every local Senedd Member to meet him to hear about those discussions, and I'm sure, after having the opportunity to speak to Huw Thomas, that he is determined, if there is any agreement on the future, to safeguard not just what the schools do at present in the hall, but community use in its entirety of a very important resource for the lives of people who live in the capital city.  

First Minister, Cardiff Council have cited a maintenance backlog to the tune of £55 million as a motivating factor behind recent soundings to sell St David's Hall in Cardiff. The systematic failure to provide adequate ongoing maintenance now means that the venue, which hosts cultural and civic occasions, as my colleague Rhys mentioned, that add to Cardiff's prestige as a capital city is looking to change hands to a company that has declared their desire to cease holding these types of events. This potential sale of St David's Hall brings to the forefront issues about how responsible the local authority should be in the management of community assets and community buildings, and how accountable they should be when they've failed to properly maintain and look after them.

First Minister, I would argue that £55 million-worth of maintenance work is very unlikely to have been accrued over the last three years since the start of the COVID pandemic, and I do not believe that this should be made the reasoning behind the backlog. Fifty-five million pounds-worth of maintenance happens over decades of neglect, and I therefore believe that, if Cardiff Council had acted responsibly in carrying out proper scheduled maintenance, they would not be looking to sell St David's Hall. With this in mind, First Minister, what assessment has this Government made alongside local authorities to understand whether or not those responsible for maintaining cultural and community assets are doing all that they can to properly maintain them? Thank you. 

Prif Weinidog, mae Cyngor Caerdydd wedi cyfeirio at ôl-groniad cynnal a chadw o £55 miliwn fel ffactor ysgogol y tu ôl i synau diweddar ynghylch gwerthu Neuadd Dewi Sant yng Nghaerdydd. Mae'r methiant systematig i ddarparu gwaith cynnal a chadw parhaus digonol bellach yn golygu bod y lleoliad, sy'n cynnal achlysuron diwylliannol a dinesig, fel y soniodd fy nghyd-Aelod Rhys, sy'n ychwanegu at fri Caerdydd fel prifddinas yn mynd i newid dwylo a mynd i gwmni sydd wedi datgan ei ddymuniad i roi'r gorau i gynnal y mathau hyn o ddigwyddiadau. Mae'r posibilrwydd hwn o werthu Neuadd Dewi Sant yn amlygu problemau blaenllaw ynghylch pa mor gyfrifol y dylai'r awdurdod lleol fod wrth reoli asedau cymunedol ac adeiladau cymunedol, a pha mor atebol y dylen nhw fod pan fethon nhw â'u cynnal a gofalu amdanyn nhw'n iawn.

Prif Weinidog, byddwn yn dadlau ei bod yn annhebygol iawn bod gwerth £55 miliwn o waith cynnal a chadw wedi cronni dros y tair blynedd diwethaf ers dechrau'r pandemig COVID, ac nid wyf yn credu y dylid defnyddio hwn fel y rheswm y tu ôl i'r ôl-groniad. Mae gwerth 55 miliwn o bunnau o waith cynnal a chadw yn digwydd dros ddegawdau o esgeulustod, ac felly rwy'n credu pe bai Cyngor Caerdydd wedi ymddwyn yn gyfrifol gan wneud gwaith cynnal a chadw wedi'i drefnu'n briodol, na fydden nhw'n ceisio gwerthu Neuadd Dewi Sant. Gyda hyn mewn golwg, Prif Weinidog, pa asesiad y mae'r Llywodraeth hon wedi'i wneud ochr yn ochr ag awdurdodau lleol i ddeall a yw'r rhai sy'n gyfrifol am gynnal asedau diwylliannol a chymunedol yn gwneud popeth o fewn eu gallu i'w cynnal yn iawn? Diolch. 

Llywydd, I've no doubt the Member will make those points to the proper authority, which in this case is Cardiff Council itself. He's right—Cardiff Council is responsible for it and is answerable to its local population, and Cardiff Council won a significant endorsement from the people here in Cardiff in only May of this year. I will just add only this, Llywydd, that the leader of the council was very clear in his conversation with me today that there is no suggestion in any of the discussions that he is holding that the council would cease to be owner of the freehold of St David's Hall. 

Llywydd, nid oes gennyf unrhyw amheuaeth y bydd yr Aelod yn gwneud y pwyntiau hynny i'r awdurdod priodol, sef Cyngor Caerdydd ei hun yn yr achos hwn. Mae e'n iawn—Cyngor Caerdydd sy'n gyfrifol amdani ac mae'n atebol i'w boblogaeth leol, ac fe gafodd Cyngor Caerdydd gefnogaeth sylweddol gan y bobl yma yng Nghaerdydd ym mis Mai eleni. Dim ond i ychwanegu hyn, Llywydd, yr oedd arweinydd y cyngor yn glir iawn yn ei sgwrs â mi heddiw nad oes awgrym yn yr un o'r trafodaethau y mae'n eu cynnal y byddai'r cyngor yn peidio â bod yn berchen ar rydd-ddaliad Neuadd Dewi Sant. 

Good afternoon, First Minister. I don't live in Cardiff, but, as a child and a young person living and brought up in north Wales, I attended many concerts at St David's Hall, and some of those, I have to say, on my own, as I could often not find somebody to come with me to some of those events. I won't give you the list of those concerts that I went to, but they were very unique, shall we say. St David's Hall is seen as a national venue, and I've heard what you've said, and it's comforting to hear that you share my view that St David's Hall should remain within public hands. It is indeed something that we across Wales want to see remaining in public hands, ensuring that it continues to deliver on that musical heritage that it has. Diolch yn fawr iawn.

Prynhawn da, Prif Weinidog. Nid wyf yn byw yng Nghaerdydd, ond, fel plentyn a pherson ifanc yn byw ac wedi fy magu yn y gogledd, bues i mewn sawl cyngerdd yn Neuadd Dewi Sant, a rhai o'r rheiny, mae'n rhaid i mi ddweud, ar fy mhen fy hun, gan nad oeddwn i'n aml yn gallu dod o hyd i rywun i ddod gyda mi i rai o'r digwyddiadau hynny. Ni wnaf roi'r rhestr o'r cyngherddau hynny yr es i iddyn nhw, ond roedden nhw'n unigryw iawn, fyddwn ni'n dweud. Mae Neuadd Dewi Sant yn cael ei gweld fel lleoliad cenedlaethol, ac rwyf wedi clywed yr hyn a ddywedoch chi, ac mae'n gysur clywed eich bod yn rhannu fy marn y dylai Neuadd Dewi Sant aros o fewn dwylo cyhoeddus. Yn wir rydym ni i gyd ledled Cymru eisiau ei gweld yn aros yn nwylo cyhoeddus, gan sicrhau ei bod yn parhau i gyflawni'r dreftadaeth gerddorol honno sydd ganddi. Diolch yn fawr iawn.

14:10

Well, Llywydd, I certainly agree that the hall has had an exceptional 40-year history. Seeing this question, I was reminded of a very early visit I made to the hall, back at the very start of its existence, where I attended a concert of music by Delius, conducted by Eric Fenby, who, as a young man, had written down the music as Delius composed it. Delius was blind in later life, and as a young man, Fenby had been his amanuensis, as it's called, and, very much later in his life, there he was in St David's Hall, conducting the music that he himself had written down. It was utterly memorable at the time; it remains with me ever since. So, I absolutely recognise the point that the Member has made about that history.

Cardiff Council will go on, I am sure, securing the public interest in whatever arrangement it makes for the future of the hall. Nobody, though, should believe that 12 years of austerity, despite everything that this Chamber has done to try to protect the budgets of local authorities, does not have a very significant impact on the ability of local authorities right across Wales to deliver services in the way that they may prefer to choose them. They have to find other ways, creative ways, sometimes, of making sure that the public interest, and there is a very clear public interest in making sure that St David's Hall continues to be a successful music venture—to find ways in which that can be made to happen.

Wel, Llywydd, rwy'n sicr yn cytuno bod y neuadd wedi cael hanes eithriadol dros y 40 mlynedd. O weld y cwestiwn hwn, cefais fy atgoffa o ymweliad cynnar iawn a wnes i â'r neuadd, yn ôl ar ddechrau ei bodolaeth, pan es i gyngerdd o gerddoriaeth gan Delius, dan arweiniad Eric Fenby, a oedd, fel dyn ifanc, wedi ysgrifennu'r gerddoriaeth i lawr wrth i Delius ei chyfansoddi. Roedd Delius yn ddall yn ddiweddarach yn ei fywyd, ac fel dyn ifanc, roedd Fenby wedi bod yn amanuensis iddo, fel mae'n cael ei alw, ac, yn ddiweddarach iawn yn ei fywyd, yno yr oedd yn Neuadd Dewi Sant, yn arwain y gerddoriaeth yr oedd ef ei hun wedi ei hysgrifennu i lawr. Roedd yn hollol gofiadwy ar y pryd; mae wedi aros gyda mi byth ers hynny. Felly, rwy'n cydnabod yn llwyr y pwynt y mae'r Aelod wedi'i wneud am yr hanes hwnnw.

Bydd Cyngor Caerdydd yn mynd yn ei flaen, rwy'n siŵr, i sicrhau budd y cyhoedd ym mha bynnag drefniant a wna ar gyfer dyfodol y neuadd. Ond ni ddylai neb gredu nad yw 12 mlynedd o gyni, er gwaethaf popeth y mae'r Siambr hon wedi'i wneud i geisio gwarchod cyllidebau awdurdodau lleol, yn cael effaith sylweddol iawn ar allu awdurdodau lleol ledled Cymru i ddarparu gwasanaethau yn y ffordd y dymunen nhw eu darparu. Mae'n rhaid iddyn nhw ddod o hyd i ffyrdd eraill, ffyrdd creadigol, weithiau, o wneud yn siŵr bod budd y cyhoedd, ac mae budd cyhoeddus clir iawn mewn sicrhau bod Neuadd Dewi Sant yn parhau i fod yn fenter gerddoriaeth lwyddiannus—i ddod o hyd i ffyrdd y gellir gwneud i hynny ddigwydd.

I put my name down to follow up on this question without realising how many people would also be doing the same, but I would like to add my voice. I've been contacted by a constituent, who plays regularly in an orchestra at St David's Hall. I was going to say 'a cross-party voice', but it's disappointing to hear Joel James making a party political attack on Cardiff Council, since, as you've already said, the austerity agenda has been very significantly impacting the ability of local authorities to sustain these kinds of venues since 2010. That said, the constituent who contacted me wanted to emphasise his concern that a private operator might not see the same kind of cultural importance of the diversity that is currently presented at St David's Hall and would like that to continue, and would like that to be communicated to Cardiff Council.

Rhoddais fy enw i lawr i gyfrannu at y cwestiwn hwn heb sylweddoli faint o bobl fyddai hefyd yn gwneud yr un peth, ond hoffwn ychwanegu fy llais. Cysylltodd etholwr â mi, sy'n chwarae'n rheolaidd mewn cerddorfa yn Neuadd Dewi Sant. Roeddwn i'n mynd i ddweud 'llais trawsbleidiol', ond mae'n siomedig clywed Joel James yn gwneud ymosodiad plaid wleidyddol ar Gyngor Caerdydd, oherwydd, fel rydych chi eisoes wedi ei ddweud, mae'r agenda cyni wedi bod yn effeithio'n sylweddol iawn ar allu awdurdodau lleol i gynnal y mathau hyn o leoliadau ers 2010. Wedi dweud hynny, roedd yr etholwr a gysylltodd â mi eisiau pwysleisio ei bryder ei fod yn bosibl na fyddai gweithredwr preifat yn gweld yr un math o bwysigrwydd diwylliannol yn yr amrywiaeth sy'n cael ei gyflwyno yn Neuadd Dewi Sant ar hyn o bryd ac roedd yn dymuno i hynny barhau, a hoffai i hynny gael ei gyfleu i Gyngor Caerdydd.

Well, I thank Hefin David for that. The points he makes are points that I know the local authority itself has heard and will take very seriously. However the future of the hall is to be designed, the local authority will want to secure its continuing viability, not just for the sorts of very popular events that happen there, but that wider range of youth events, community events, classical music events, international events, such as the International Concert Series and the Cardiff Singer of the World competition. And challenging as it is to sustain public services at a time of sharply reducing budgets, I know that those considerations will be very actively in the local authority's mind.

Wel, diolch i Hefin David am hynna. Mae'r pwyntiau mae'n eu gwneud yn bwyntiau rwy'n gwybod bod yr awdurdod lleol ei hun wedi'u clywed ac y bydd yn eu cymryd o ddifrif. Fodd bynnag, bydd dyfodol y neuadd yn cael ei chynllunio, bydd yr awdurdod lleol eisiau sicrhau ei hyfywedd parhaus, nid yn unig ar gyfer y mathau o ddigwyddiadau poblogaidd iawn sy'n digwydd yno, ond yr ystod ehangach honno o ddigwyddiadau ieuenctid, digwyddiadau cymunedol, digwyddiadau cerddoriaeth glasurol, digwyddiadau rhyngwladol, megis Cyfres Cyngherddau Rhyngwladol a chystadleuaeth Canwr y Byd Caerdydd. Ac er mor heriol yw hi i gynnal gwasanaethau cyhoeddus mewn cyfnod o leihau cyllidebau'n sylweddol, gwn y bydd yr ystyriaethau hynny'n fyw iawn ym meddwl yr awdurdod lleol.

Amseroedd Aros Ambiwlansys
Ambulance Waiting Times

4. Pa gamau brys y mae Llywodraeth Cymru'n eu cymryd i dorri amseroedd aros ambiwlansys? OQ58801

4. What urgent action is the Welsh Government taking to cut ambulance waiting times? OQ58801

Llywydd, recruitment of further additional staff, reformed rota arrangements, reductions in sickness absence and new investment in technology to support clinical decision making are amongst the actions being taken to reduce ambulance waiting times.

Llywydd, mae recriwtio mwy o staff ychwanegol, trefniadau rota diwygiedig, lleihau absenoldeb oherwydd salwch a buddsoddi newydd mewn technoleg i gefnogi penderfyniadau clinigol ymhlith y camau a gymerir i leihau amseroedd aros ambiwlansys.

Thank you, First Minister. I asked the health Minister the same question recently as to how this Government will cut ambulance waiting times. First Minister, it's been over a year now since your Government published its six goals for emergency care, and the situation has got worse, as I experienced myself recently and many of my constituents. None of this, of course, is the fault of hard-working paramedics, but the poor planning from this Labour Government. As I said to the health Minister, we haven't forgotten that the last health Minister said that it would be foolish to publish a plan for recovery whilst the pandemic was going on, and now we're paying the price.

First Minister, as we've heard already, we're now in winter and we know the situation will deteriorate, even without the prospect of a nurses' strike. I was in children's A&E with my son last week, and during the night there were 67 children to see and two doctors. Demand increases. First Minister, what immediate measures are you taking to ensure that our ambulance waiting times improve, and also, ultimately, that patients don't pay the ultimate price due to this Government's poor planning or lack of action?

Diolch. Gofynnais yr un cwestiwn yn ddiweddar i'r Gweinidog iechyd ynghylch sut y bydd y Llywodraeth hon yn lleihau amseroedd aros ambiwlansys. Prif Weinidog, mae dros flwyddyn bellach wedi bod ers i'ch Llywodraeth gyhoeddi ei chwe nod ar gyfer gofal brys, ac mae'r sefyllfa wedi gwaethygu, fel y gwelais fy hun yn ddiweddar a llawer o fy etholwyr. Wrth gwrs nid ar barafeddygon sy'n gweithio'n galed y mae'r bai, ond ar y cynllunio gwael gan y Llywodraeth Lafur hon. Fel y dywedais i wrth y Gweinidog iechyd, nid ydym wedi anghofio bod y Gweinidog iechyd diwethaf wedi dweud y byddai'n beth ffôl cyhoeddi cynllun ar gyfer adferiad tra bod y pandemig yn mynd ymlaen, a nawr rydym ni'n talu'r pris.

Prif Weinidog, fel rydym ni wedi clywed yn barod, rydym ni nawr yn y gaeaf ac rydym ni'n gwybod y bydd y sefyllfa'n dirywio, hyd yn oed heb y posibilrwydd o streic nyrsys. Roeddwn i yn adran ddamweiniau ac achosion brys plant gyda fy mab yr wythnos diwethaf, ac yn ystod y nos roedd 67 o blant yn disgwyl cael eu gweld a dau feddyg. Mae'r galw'n cynyddu. Prif Weinidog, pa fesurau uniongyrchol ydych chi'n eu cymryd i sicrhau bod ein hamseroedd aros am ambiwlansys yn gwella, a hefyd, yn y pen draw, nad yw cleifion yn talu'r pris eithaf oherwydd cynllunio gwael y Llywodraeth hon neu ddiffyg gweithredu?

14:15

Well, Llywydd, I read the Record of the Member's exchange with the Minister for health, and we have a reprise of exactly the same points that she made then this afternoon, and the answers haven't changed from the answers that she was given on that occasion.

I'll come to the substance of her question in a moment, but let me make it clear to the Chamber that I do not accept for a moment the suggestion that the Member makes that this is somehow a uniquely Welsh problem. The leader of the ambulance service in England, last week, said that people were dying in the English health service because of the problems of ambulances in the English NHS. So, the point I make is not at all as she does to try to make foolish comparisons, but to recognise the fact that everywhere the system is under enormous pressure, that everywhere clinicians are working extremely hard to try to tackle it, that everywhere Governments are trying to find solutions to a problem that is the same in Wales, and Scotland, and in England, and worse again in Northern Ireland. So, the idea, as she tried to put it to my colleague the health Minister, and she's tried to put it again this afternoon, that this is somehow a uniquely Welsh experience, is not true, she knows it's not true, and she shouldn't keep suggesting it. 

The actions that are being taken are the ones that the health Minister provided to her when she asked the question only a week or so ago. Mercifully, as a result of all the actions that have been taken, emergency admissions in Wales are down. They're down below pre-pandemic levels. They're down because of the actions that the Minister has taken. The Minister chaired a meeting of all health boards and the ambulance service only yesterday, to report on the way in which those measures are being taken forward now and how they will be taken forward further over this winter. That will include the urgent primary care centres that have been established now in all parts of Wales, and will soon cover the whole of the Welsh population, which means that people don't have to go to an emergency ambulance to be conveyed to a hospital when there are other closer-to-hand facilities that draw that demand away. The Member said herself that there were 67 children attending that department. How does she imagine a system is able to respond when you see demand of that escalating sort, other than by finding other ways in which that demand can be managed?

Now, I think it is a real tribute to the changes that have been made and that the Minister has led that, now, 4,000 999 calls every month in Wales are being successfully managed clinically without people ever having to leave their own homes. In the face of the sort of demand we are seeing, in the face of that combination of circumstances this winter—COVID, which hasn't gone away; flu, which is on the rise in Wales; respiratory syncytial virus, which is at extraordinary levels, particularly amongst the under-fives, and, I imagine, was responsible for quite a significant number of those children being taken to an A&E department—the system works as hard as it can to remain resilient in the face of those extraordinary challenges.

Wel, Llywydd, darllenais Gofnod o'r ffeirio geiriau rhwng yr Aelod a'r Gweinidog iechyd, ac rydym yn clywed ailadroddiad yr un pwyntiau yn union a wnaed bryd hynny y prynhawn yma, ac nid yw'r atebion wedi newid ers yr atebion a roddwyd iddi y tro hwnnw.

Fe ddof at sylwedd ei chwestiwn hi yn y man, ond gadewch i mi ei gwneud yn glir i'r Siambr nad ydw i'n derbyn am eiliad awgrym yr Aelod fod hon rywsut yn broblem unigryw i Gymru. Dywedodd arweinydd y gwasanaeth ambiwlans yn Lloegr, yr wythnos diwethaf, fod pobl yn marw yng ngwasanaeth iechyd Lloegr oherwydd problemau ambiwlansys yn GIG Lloegr. Felly, nid yw'r pwynt rwy'n ei wneud o gwbl yn debyg i'r hyn y mae hi'n ceisio'i wneud drwy wneud cymariaethau ffôl, ond i gydnabod y ffaith bod y system dan bwysau aruthrol ymhobman, bod clinigwyr yn gweithio'n eithriadol o galed ymhobman i geisio mynd i'r afael â'r broblem, bod Llywodraethau ymhobman yn ceisio dod o hyd i atebion i broblem sydd yr un fath yng Nghymru, yn yr Alban, ac yn Lloegr, a gwaeth eto yng Ngogledd Iwerddon. Felly, nid yw'r syniad, fel y ceisiodd hi ei roi i fy nghyd-Weinidog y Gweinidog iechyd, ac mae hi wedi ceisio ei roi eto y prynhawn yma, fod hwn rhywsut yn brofiad unigryw Gymreig yn wir, mae hi'n gwybod nad yw'n wir, ac ni ddylai hi barhau i awgrymu hynny.

Y camau sy'n cael eu cymryd yw'r rhai a roddodd y Gweinidog Iechyd iddi pan ofynnodd y cwestiwn dim ond wythnos yn ôl. Trwy drugaredd, o ganlyniad i'r holl gamau sydd wedi'u cymryd, mae derbyniadau brys yng Nghymru i lawr. Maen nhw i lawr yn is na'r lefelau cyn y pandemig. Maen nhw i lawr oherwydd y camau y mae'r Gweinidog wedi'u cymryd. Cadeiriodd y Gweinidog gyfarfod o'r holl fyrddau iechyd a'r gwasanaeth ambiwlans ddoe, i adrodd ar y ffordd y mae'r mesurau hynny'n cael eu gweithredu nawr a sut y byddant yn cael eu symud ymlaen ymhellach dros y gaeaf hwn. Bydd hynny'n cynnwys y canolfannau gofal sylfaenol brys sydd wedi eu sefydlu nawr ym mhob rhan o Gymru, a bydd yn fuan yn cwmpasu holl boblogaeth Cymru, sy'n golygu nad oes rhaid i bobl gael ambiwlans brys i'w cludo i ysbyty pan fydd cyfleusterau eraill wrth law sy'n tynnu'r galw hwnnw i ffwrdd. Dywedodd yr Aelod ei hun bod 67 o blant yn yr adran honno. Sut mae hi'n dychmygu bod system yn gallu ymateb pan fyddwch chi'n gweld galw o'r math hwnnw sydd ar gynnydd, heblaw drwy ddod o hyd i ffyrdd eraill i reoli'r galw hwnnw?

Nawr, rwy'n credu ei bod yn deyrnged go iawn i'r newidiadau sydd wedi eu gwneud y bu'r Gweinidog yn eu harwain, bellach, bod 4,000 o alwadau 999 bob mis yng Nghymru yn cael eu rheoli'n llwyddiannus yn glinigol heb i bobl orfod gadael eu cartrefi eu hunain. Yn wyneb y math o alw yr ydym ni'n ei weld, yn wyneb y cyfuniad hwnnw o amgylchiadau'r gaeaf hwn—COVID, sydd heb fynd i ffwrdd; ffliw, sydd ar gynnydd yng Nghymru; feirws syncytiol anadlol, sydd ar lefelau rhyfeddol, yn enwedig ymhlith y rhai dan bump oed, ac, rwy'n dychmygu, a arweiniodd at nifer eithaf sylweddol o'r plant hynny yn cael eu cludo i adran ddamweiniau ac achosion brys—mae'r system yn gweithio mor galed ag y gall hi i barhau i fod yn gydnerth yn wyneb yr heriau rhyfeddol hynny.

Datgarboneiddio Holl Gartrefi Cymru
Decarbonisation of All Welsh Homes

5. Pa drafodaethau y mae Llywodraeth Cymru wedi'u cael gyda'r diwydiant adeiladu ar ddatgarboneiddio holl gartrefi Cymru? OQ58799

5. What discussions has the Welsh Government had with the construction industry on the decarbonisation of all Welsh homes? OQ58799

Llywydd, we remain in close contact with the industry in Wales, for example, through the construction forum and through key actions, such as the optimised retrofit programme. In this way, we maintain a regular discussion with the industry on a range of decarbonisation issues.

Llywydd, rydym yn parhau i fod mewn cysylltiad agos â'r diwydiant yng Nghymru, er enghraifft, trwy'r fforwm adeiladu a thrwy gamau gweithredu allweddol, fel y rhaglen ôl-osod er mwyn optimeiddio. Fel hyn, byddwn yn cynnal trafodaeth reolaidd gyda'r diwydiant ar ystod o faterion datgarboneiddio.

14:20

I recognise the excellent work that's been done through the optimised retrofit programme, which has certainly improved a lot of our social housing. I look forward to hearing the detail of next year’s net-zero skills plan, because that is going to be crucial in enabling the construction industry to plan for having the skills they need to decarbonise all our homes.

I appreciate the Welsh Government’s ambition is tempered by at least a £1 billion cut in its budget next year. Nevertheless, there are many ways in which the cause of decarbonising the private sector can be advanced, particularly when 40 per cent of all Welsh homes are owned outright with no mortgage attached. Whether it's individual building passports or fiscal incentives through a reduction in stamp duties or land value tax, how can we galvanise people who have the resources to invest in reducing their heating bills and do the right thing by the environment?

Rwy'n cydnabod y gwaith rhagorol sydd wedi'i wneud drwy'r rhaglen ôl-osod er mwyn optimeiddio, sydd yn sicr wedi gwella llawer o'n tai cymdeithasol. Rwy'n edrych ymlaen at glywed manylion cynllun sgiliau sero net y flwyddyn nesaf, oherwydd mae hynny'n mynd i fod yn hanfodol wrth alluogi'r diwydiant adeiladu i gynllunio ar gyfer cael y sgiliau sydd eu hangen arnyn nhw i ddatgarboneiddio ein holl gartrefi.

Rwy'n gwerthfawrogi bod uchelgais Llywodraeth Cymru yn gorfod addasu oherwydd toriad o £1 biliwn o leiaf yn ei chyllideb y flwyddyn nesaf. Serch hynny, mae sawl ffordd y gellir datblygu achos datgarboneiddio'r sector preifat, yn enwedig pan fo 40 y cant o holl gartrefi Cymru wedi'u perchnogi'n llwyr heb forgais ynghlwm. P'un a yw'n basbortau adeiladu unigol neu gymhellion cyllidol trwy ostyngiad yn nhrethi stamp neu'r dreth gwerth tir, sut allwn ni symbylu pobl sydd â'r adnoddau i fuddsoddi mewn lleihau eu biliau gwresogi a gwneud y peth iawn ar gyfer yr amgylchedd?

Well, Llywydd, I thank Jenny Rathbone. She makes a really important point here that public investment will carry us so far on this agenda, but it will have to be co-financed by people who have resources that they themselves can make available. Providing a building passport for each home is something that was recommended by the UK Climate Change Committee, and will be fundamental because, as we've discussed in the Chamber before, every building has its own history and every building will need its own solution when it comes to decarbonisation. We work with the Development Bank of Wales to try to develop products that can be used to help people who have assets that they themselves can put to work, so that privately owned properties can themselves play a part in that decarbonisation journey. Alongside that, we go on investing significant sums of money. In the public sphere, new Welsh quality housing standards, which are being consulted upon, will improve the standards of energy efficiency of publicly owned properties here in Wales.

I just make this one broader point, to put the Member's question in context, the Welsh net-zero skills plan is very important. The things that we can do to encourage private investment in this area are very important. The industry faces enormous headwinds, which a plan by itself will not put right. We know that there are labour shortages as a result of Brexit. We know that there are barriers to the importation of materials, again made worse because we don't have the same trading relationship we had with our most important neighbours, and that creates bottlenecks in the system as well. There are some global issues, and that includes the impact of the war in Ukraine on some essential materials for house construction and for retrofitting work that, even with plans by the Welsh Government and investment, public and private, means that there are real challenges that are going to be faced in the sector over the years ahead.

Wel, Llywydd, diolch i Jenny Rathbone. Mae hi'n gwneud pwynt pwysig iawn yma y bydd buddsoddiad cyhoeddus yn ein cario ni rhan o'r ffordd ar yr agenda hon, ond bydd yn rhaid iddo gael ei gyd-ariannu gan bobl sydd ag adnoddau y gallan nhw eu hunain sicrhau eu bod ar gael. Mae darparu pasbort adeiladu ar gyfer pob cartref yn rhywbeth a gafodd ei argymell gan Bwyllgor Newid Hinsawdd y DU, a bydd yn sylfaenol oherwydd, fel rydym ni wedi trafod yn y Siambr o'r blaen, mae gan bob adeilad ei hanes ei hun a bydd angen ei ateb ei hun ar bob adeilad pan ddaw i ddatgarboneiddio. Rydym yn gweithio gyda Banc Datblygu Cymru i geisio datblygu cynnyrch y gellir ei ddefnyddio i helpu pobl sydd ag asedau y gallant eu hunain eu rhoi ar waith, fel y gall eiddo sydd dan berchnogaeth breifat eu hunain chwarae rhan yn y daith ddatgarboneiddio honno. Ochr yn ochr â hynny, rydym yn mynd ati i fuddsoddi symiau sylweddol o arian. Yn y maes cyhoeddus bydd safonau ansawdd tai Cymru newydd, yr ymgynghorir arnynt yn gwella safonau effeithlonrwydd ynni eiddo sydd mewn perchnogaeth gyhoeddus yma yng Nghymru.

Rwy'n gwneud y pwynt ehangach hwn, er mwyn rhoi cwestiwn yr Aelod yn ei gyd-destun, mae cynllun sgiliau sero net Cymru yn bwysig iawn. Mae'r pethau y gallwn ni eu gwneud i annog buddsoddi preifat yn y maes hwn yn bwysig iawn. Mae'r diwydiant yn wynebu penwyntoedd enfawr, na fydd cynllun ar ei ben ei hun yn ei unioni. Rydym ni'n gwybod bod prinder llafur o ganlyniad i Brexit. Rydym yn gwybod bod rhwystrau rhag mewnforio deunyddiau, wedyn wedi'u gwneud yn waeth oherwydd nad oes gennym yr un berthynas fasnachu ag yr oedd gennym ni gyda'n cymdogion pwysicaf, ac mae hynny'n creu tagfeydd yn y system hefyd. Mae rhai materion byd-eang, ac mae y rheini'n cynnwys effaith y rhyfel yn Wcráin ar rai deunyddiau hanfodol ar gyfer adeiladu tai ac ar gyfer gwaith ôl-osod sydd, hyd yn oed gyda chynlluniau gan Lywodraeth Cymru a buddsoddi cyhoeddus a phreifat, yn golygu bod yna heriau gwirioneddol i'w hwynebu yn y sector dros y blynyddoedd i ddod.

Datganiad yr Hydref Llywodraeth y DU
The UK Government's Autumn Statement

6. A wnaiff y Gweinidog amlinellu sut y bydd y chwistrelliad o £1.2 biliwn i Gymru o ddatganiad yr hydref Llywodraeth y DU o fudd i bobl sir Ddinbych? OQ58777

6. Will the Minister outline how the £1.2 billion injection to Wales from the UK Government’s autumn statement will benefit people in Denbighshire? OQ58777

Llywydd, when the draft budget is published on 13 December, it will have to balance the £600 million, which is now available next year, against the remaining £1 billion reduction in that budget's purchasing power. That reduction caused by the same inflation that is inflicting so much harm on the citizens of Denbighshire.

Llywydd, pan gyhoeddir y gyllideb ddrafft ar 13 Rhagfyr, bydd yn rhaid iddi gydbwyso'r £600 miliwn, sydd ar gael y flwyddyn nesaf nawr, â'r gostyngiad o £1 biliwn sy'n weddill ym mhŵer prynu'r gyllideb honno. Y gostyngiad hwnnw yn sgil yr un chwyddiant sy'n achosi cymaint o niwed i ddinasyddion sir Ddinbych.

Thank you very much for that answer, First Minister, and what we've seen in recent weeks is the UK Conservative Government again taking leadership in difficult financial times to invest in Wales. And, indeed, in their autumn statement, it was revealed that we will receive £1.2 billion in consequential funding, and this, of course, is in addition to the levelling-up and shared prosperity funding, which has benefited areas in my patch in Denbighshire. Now, as you will know, the Vale of Clwyd has Rhyl in the constituency, which has one of the poorest areas in all of Wales, with high rates of unemployment and a small amount of opportunities for people—[Interruption.]

Diolch yn fawr iawn am yr ateb yna Prif Weinidog, a'r hyn yr ydym ni wedi'i weld dros yr wythnosau diwethaf yw Llywodraeth Geidwadol y DU unwaith eto yn arwain mewn cyfnod ariannol anodd i fuddsoddi yng Nghymru. Ac, yn wir, yn eu datganiad yn yr hydref, datgelwyd y byddwn yn cael £1.2 biliwn mewn cyllid canlyniadol, ac mae hyn, wrth gwrs, yn ychwanegol at y gronfa ffyniant bro a'r gronfa ffyniant gyffredin, sydd wedi bod o fudd i ardaloedd yn fy ardal i yn sir Ddinbych. Nawr, fel y gwyddoch chi, mae'r Rhyl yn etholaeth Dyffryn Clwyd, sydd ag un o ardaloedd tlotaf Cymru gyfan, gyda chyfraddau uchel o ddiweithdra ac ychydig iawn o gyfleoedd i bobl—[Torri ar draws.]

Can you allow the Member to continue his question, Labour backbenchers?

A wnewch chi ganiatáu i'r Aelod barhau â'i gwestiwn, aelodau meinciau cefn Llafur?

Yes. Thank you, Llywydd. A small amount of opportunities for people to find well-paid and sustainable careers in the local area, something that could be solved in part if we had a Welsh Government that worked for all of Wales and worked in partnership with Westminster. So, will the First Minister outline today how he will best work with Rishi Sunak and the UK Government in making sure that my constituency feels the benefit of this injection of cash, rather than just sniping from the sidelines?

Ie. Diolch, Llywydd. Ychydig iawn o gyfleoedd i bobl ddod o hyd i yrfaoedd cynaliadwy sy'n talu'n dda yn yr ardal leol, rhywbeth y gellid ei ddatrys yn rhannol pe bai gennym Lywodraeth yng Nghymru oedd yn gweithio i Gymru gyfan ac yn gweithio mewn partneriaeth â San Steffan. Felly, a wnaiff y Prif Weinidog amlinellu heddiw sut y bydd yn gweithio orau gyda Rishi Sunak a Llywodraeth y DU wrth sicrhau bod fy etholaeth i yn teimlo budd y chwistrelliad hwn o arian parod, yn hytrach na dim ond beirniadu o'r cyrion?

14:25

Well, Llywydd, it's one of those questions where you don't know where to start, really. First of all, let's put the record straight. I see that the Member was busy tweeting that Wales was going to get £1.2 billion in funding for schools and hospitals. Well, of course, that's not true at all. Forty-four per cent of all the consequential that comes to Wales is a consequence of changes to business rate support announced in England. So, half the money is gone before we start on any school or any hospital, and even when that money is there, it still leaves a budget that in real terms, next year, is £1 billion less than it was when that Conservative Government fixed the budget in November last year. That's the truth that faces the residents of Denbighshire.

I hardly knew what to think when I heard the Member refer to the levelling-up fund and the shared prosperity fund. Did he notice that his Government took another £400 million out of the shared prosperity fund in the autumn statement? We already knew that the absolute guarantee that Wales would not be a penny worse off as a result of losing Objective 1 funding wasn't going to be true at all. That was already clear from the previous funds that the UK Government had outlined. Now we've got £400 million less even than that, and we don't even have an announcement on the funding for Wales at all. Any suggestion that the way in which people in the Member's constituency are to find new opportunities in their lives is by following what has been happening at Westminster is so far removed from the reality of the position that the Member's question this afternoon needs a very significant dose of reality.

Wel, Llywydd, mae'n un o'r cwestiynau hynny lle nad ydych chi'n gwybod lle i ddechrau, mewn gwirionedd. Yn gyntaf oll, gadewch i ni gywiro'r gwall yn syth. Rwy'n gweld bod yr Aelod yn brysur yn trydar bod Cymru am gael £1.2 biliwn i ariannu ysgolion ac ysbytai. Wel, wrth gwrs, nid yw hynny'n wir o gwbl. Mae 44 y cant o'r holl symiau canlyniadol sy'n dod i Gymru o ganlyniad i newidiadau i'r cymorth yn y cyfraddau busnes a gyhoeddwyd yn Lloegr. Felly, mae hanner yr arian wedi mynd cyn i ni ddechrau ar unrhyw ysgol neu unrhyw ysbyty, a hyd yn oed pan fydd yr arian hwnnw yno, mae'n dal i adael cyllideb sydd mewn termau real, y flwyddyn nesaf, £1 biliwn yn llai nag yr oedd pan wnaeth y Llywodraeth Geidwadol honno osod y gyllideb ym mis Tachwedd y llynedd. Dyna'r gwir sy'n wynebu trigolion sir Ddinbych.

Prin y gwyddwn i beth i'w feddwl pan glywais yr Aelod yn cyfeirio at y gronfa ffyniant bro a'r gronfa ffyniant gyffredin. A wnaeth ef sylwi bod ei Lywodraeth wedi cymryd £400 miliwn arall allan o'r gronfa ffyniant gyffredin yn natganiad yr hydref? Roeddem ni eisoes yn gwybod nad oedd y sicrwydd llwyr na fyddai Cymru'n waeth ei byd o ganlyniad i golli arian Amcan 1 yn mynd i fod yn wir o gwbl. Roedd hynny eisoes yn glir o'r arian blaenorol yr oedd Llywodraeth y DU wedi'i amlinellu. Nawr mae gennym ni £400 miliwn yn llai hyd yn oed na hynny, a does gennym ni ddim hyd yn oed gyhoeddiad ar y cyllid i Gymru o gwbl. Mae unrhyw awgrym fod y ffordd y mae pobl yn etholaeth yr Aelod i ddod o hyd i gyfleoedd newydd yn eu bywydau trwy ddilyn yr hyn sydd wedi bod yn digwydd yn San Steffan mor bell o realiti'r sefyllfa fel bod angen dos sylweddol iawn o realiti ar gwestiwn yr Aelod y prynhawn yma.

Gweithdrefnau Rhyddhau Diogel
Safe Discharge Procedures

7. Pa gamau y mae Llywodraeth Cymru'n eu cymryd i sicrhau bod gan ysbytai weithdrefnau rhyddhau diogel yn eu lle? OQ58780

7. What steps is the Welsh Government taking to ensure that hospitals have safe discharge procedures in place? OQ58780

Renewed and revised expert guidance to assist staff in safe and timely discharge of hospital patients will be launched on 6 December.

Bydd canllawiau arbenigol newydd a diwygiedig i gynorthwyo staff i ryddhau cleifion mewn ysbytai yn ddiogel ac yn amserol yn cael eu lansio ar 6 Rhagfyr.

Thank you, and I do look forward to that. The reason I'm asking you the question is I did ask for a statement last week through the Trefnydd, for a statement from the health Minister and social care Minister, because I will declare an interest: I did experience a very poor situation in north Wales last week. A 98-year-old member of my family, who had mobility issues on the day he was discharged from hospital, and a broken shoulder, was recently discharged on the day and sent home with no care package in place for the remainder of that day even. They left this particular relative sat in a chair at home, unable to move. He would have actually been stuck there until carers arrived the next day, but for my own intervention, actually. Having spoken to people working within the health and social care departments that night, whereby we did manage to get some support in, I was actually almost here in Cardiff when I heard that nobody had been to see him as was promised. Now, I've been assured that this is not a unique case. Other vulnerable patients are being discharged to homes without care packages in place. Now, I appreciate that—

Diolch, ac rwy'n edrych ymlaen at hynny. Y rheswm rwy'n gofyn y cwestiwn i chi yw oherwydd fe wnes i ofyn am ddatganiad yr wythnos diwethaf drwy'r Trefnydd, am ddatganiad gan y Gweinidog iechyd a'r Gweinidog gofal cymdeithasol, oherwydd fe wnaf i ddatgan buddiant: fe wnes i brofi sefyllfa wael iawn yn y gogledd yr wythnos diwethaf. Cafodd aelod 98 oed o fy nheulu, oedd â phroblemau symudedd ar y diwrnod y cafodd ei ryddhau o'r ysbyty, ac ysgwydd oedd wedi torri, ei ryddhau ar y diwrnod a'i anfon adref heb becyn gofal ar waith ar gyfer gweddill y diwrnod hwnnw hyd yn oed. Gadawon nhw'r perthynas arbennig hwn yn eistedd mewn cadair gartref, yn methu symud. Mewn gwirionedd, byddai wedi bod yn sownd yno nes i ofalwyr gyrraedd y diwrnod canlynol, oni bai am fy ymyrraeth fy hun, mewn gwirionedd. Ar ôl siarad gyda phobl sy'n gweithio o fewn yr adrannau iechyd a gofal cymdeithasol y noson honno, pan lwyddom ni i gael rhywfaint o gefnogaeth i mewn, roeddwn i mewn gwirionedd bron â chyrraedd Caerdydd pan glywais nad oedd neb wedi bod i'w weld fel yr addawyd. Nawr, rwyf wedi cael sicrwydd nad yw hwn yn achos unigryw. Mae cleifion agored i niwed eraill yn cael eu rhyddhau i gartrefi heb becynnau gofal ar waith. Nawr, rwy'n gwerthfawrogi—

You'll need to come to your question, Janet.

Bydd angen i chi ddod at eich cwestiwn, Janet.

Yes, okay. In the 2021 manifesto, you promised to legislate to strengthen partnerships to deliver better integrated care and health. So, in the light of the clear evidence that the breakdown in communication between health and social care in north Wales is posing a threat, what action will you take to ensure better integrated care and health, and that nobody else is left in such a vulnerable position? Thank you.

Iawn. Ym maniffesto 2021, fe wnaethoch chi addo deddfu i gryfhau partneriaethau i ddarparu gofal ac iechyd integredig gwell. Felly, yn sgil y dystiolaeth glir bod cyfathrebu rhwng iechyd a gofal cymdeithasol yn y gogledd wedi torri i lawr ac felly yn fygythiad, pa gamau fyddwch chi'n eu cymryd i sicrhau gofal ac iechyd integredig gwell, ac na fydd neb arall yn cael ei adael mewn sefyllfa mor fregus? Diolch.

Well, Llywydd, I was very sorry to read the points that the Member made last week, and I'm glad to hear that as a result of her intervention some of those difficulties have been resolved.

I have asked for an assurance from the chief executive of NHS Wales that these sorts of events are exceptional in the Welsh NHS and that the vast bulk of people who are discharged do have a proper care plan in place and are not discharged into the sorts of circumstances that we've heard about this afternoon, and I received that assurance today. Mistakes do happen, and not everything is as we would like it to be, but the idea that many people are discharged in Wales in circumstances that are not safe, I think, is not borne out by the evidence, and nor should it be.

The guidance that will be launched on 6 December will strengthen that again. It will make sure that every patient will have a discharge plan, and that discharge plan will be inaugurated on the day that the person is admitted. You should be planning for discharge from admission. The plan that will be announced on 6 December will strengthen that. That is backed up by the additional investment that the Welsh Government has provided in this financial year, which is shared investment. It is at that integrated point that the Member mentioned, where health and social care services sit down together, plan together to provide services so that, when someone is moving from one service to another, there aren't gaps in the system that cause the sort of difficulty that we were hearing about earlier. 

Wel, Llywydd, roedd yn ddrwg iawn gennyf ddarllen y pwyntiau a wnaeth yr Aelod yr wythnos diwethaf, ac rwy'n falch o glywed, o ganlyniad i'w hymyrraeth, y datryswyd rhai o'r anawsterau hynny.

Rwyf wedi gofyn am sicrwydd gan brif weithredwr GIG Cymru bod y mathau hyn o ddigwyddiadau yn eithriadau yn GIG Cymru a bod y rhan helaeth o'r bobl sy'n cael eu rhyddhau yn cael cynllun gofal priodol ar waith ac nad ydyn nhw'n cael eu rhyddhau i'r mathau o amgylchiadau yr ydym ni wedi clywed amdanyn nhw'r prynhawn yma, ac fe gefais y sicrwydd hwnnw heddiw. Mae camgymeriadau'n digwydd, ac nid yw popeth fel yr hoffem iddo fod, ond nid yw'r syniad bod llawer o bobl yn cael eu rhyddhau yng Nghymru mewn amgylchiadau nad ydyn nhw'n ddiogel, yn dal dŵr yn ôl y dystiolaeth, ac ni ddylai chwaith.

Bydd y canllawiau a fydd yn cael eu lansio ar 6 Rhagfyr yn cryfhau hynny eto. Bydd yn sicrhau y bydd gan bob claf gynllun rhyddhau, ac y bydd y cynllun rhyddhau yn dechrau ar y diwrnod y bydd y claf yn cael ei dderbyn. Dylech fod yn cynllunio ar gyfer rhyddhau adeg mynediad. Bydd y cynllun fydd yn cael ei gyhoeddi ar 6 Rhagfyr yn cryfhau hynny. Mae hynny'n cael ei ategu gan y buddsoddiad ychwanegol y mae Llywodraeth Cymru wedi'i ddarparu yn y flwyddyn ariannol hon, sy'n fuddsoddiad a rennir. Mae ar y pwynt integredig hwnnw y soniodd yr Aelod amdano, lle mae gwasanaethau iechyd a gofal cymdeithasol yn eistedd i lawr gyda'i gilydd, yn cynllunio gyda'i gilydd i ddarparu gwasanaethau ac i sicrhau, pan fo rhywun yn symud o un gwasanaeth i'r llall, nad oes bylchau yn y system i achosi'r math o anhawster a glywsom amdano'n gynharach. 

14:30

Ac yn olaf, cwestiwn 8, Mark Isherwood. 

And finally, question 8, Mark Isherwood. 

Peiriannau ATM
ATMs

8. Sut mae Llywodraeth Cymru'n sicrhau bod peiriannau ATM yn hygyrch mewn cymunedau yng ngogledd Cymru? OQ58775

8. How is the Welsh Government ensuring the accessibility of ATMs in communities in north Wales? OQ58775

Responsibility for banking services is not devolved to the Senedd. While the Welsh Government cannot, therefore, ensure ATM availability, we work with those who are able to do so, including innovative services such as shared banking hubs. I welcome the plans for such a hub at Prestatyn.

Nid yw'r cyfrifoldeb dros wasanaethau bancio wedi ei ddatganoli i'r Senedd. Er na all Llywodraeth Cymru, felly, sicrhau bod peiriannau ATM ar gael, rydym ni'n gweithio gyda'r rhai hynny sy'n gallu gwneud hynny, gan gynnwys gwasanaethau arloesol fel hybiau bancio ar y cyd. Rwy'n croesawu'r cynlluniau ar gyfer hwb o'r fath ym Mhrestatyn.

Thank you. Research from consumer champion Which? this month found that one in five people say they would struggle to cope in a cashless society, with those on lower incomes, older people and people with physical or mental health difficulties being particularly dependent on cash. Speaking here in 2010, I raised the risk management and capital adequacy requirements and regulation a new community bank will have to comply with, which an established bank or building society partner would not. In 2017, I led a debate on banking services here, which called on the Welsh Government to examine the not-for-profit community banking model. I therefore welcomed your subsequent announcement of the community bank for Wales, Banc Cambria, in partnership with Monmouthshire Building Society, subject to your repeated assurances that this would not impact on credit union services and the Post Office 'right to cash' banking framework. However, at last month's Post Office Senedd event, they were unaware of your community bank proposals and how this may impact on them. Monmouthshire Building Society has told me that it's more important to launch something that's right than to launch it quickly, that they're still working to address the gap in their provision of a current account, and that their Banc Cambria outlets will not necessarily be branches. So, in terms of access to cash, including ATMs, what, therefore, is the current position?

Diolch. Gwnaeth ymchwil gan eiriolwr defnyddwyr Which? y mis hwn ddarganfod bod un o bob pump o bobl yn dweud y bydden nhw'n ei chael hi'n anodd ymdopi mewn cymdeithas ddi-arian parod, a'r rhai ar incwm is, pobl hŷn a phobl sydd â thrafferthion iechyd corfforol neu iechyd meddwl yn arbennig o ddibynnol ar arian parod. Wrth siarad yma yn 2010, codais i'r gofynion rheoli risg a digonolrwydd cyfalaf a'r rheoliadau y bydd yn rhaid i fanc cymunedol newydd gydymffurfio â nhw, na fyddai banc neu bartner cymdeithas adeiladu sefydledig yn gorfod ei wneud. Yn 2017, arweiniais ddadl ar wasanaethau bancio yn y fan yma, a oedd yn galw ar Lywodraeth Cymru i archwilio'r model bancio cymunedol nid-er-elw. Felly, rwyf i'n croesawu eich cyhoeddiad dilynol am y banc cymunedol i Gymru, Banc Cambria, mewn partneriaeth â Monmouthshire Building Society, yn amodol ar eich sicrwydd mynych na fyddai hyn yn effeithio ar wasanaethau undeb credyd a fframwaith bancio 'hawl dros arian parod' Swyddfa'r Post. Ond yn nigwyddiad Swyddfa'r Post y Senedd fis diwethaf, nid oedden nhw'n ymwybodol o'ch cynigion banc cymunedol a sut y gallai hyn effeithio arnyn nhw. Mae Monmouthshire Building Society wedi dweud wrthyf i ei bod yn bwysicach lansio rhywbeth sy'n iawn na'i lansio'n gyflym, eu bod yn dal i weithio i ymdrin â'r bwlch yn eu darpariaeth sef cyfrif cyfredol, ac na fydd eu safleoedd Banc Cambria o reidrwydd yn ganghennau. Felly, o ran mynediad i arian parod, gan gynnwys peiriannau ATM, beth, felly, yw'r sefyllfa ar hyn o bryd?

First of all, Llywydd, I agree with the series of points that Mark Isherwood made at the start of his question. It is very important that we are able to provide access to cash for those many communities that rely on it.

I am astonished that the Post Office in Wales had not caught up with the developments of the community bank, given that they have been very widely publicised and discussed repeatedly on the floor of this Chamber. Given that this is central to their activity, it is very surprising indeed to find that they appear to have been unsighted on it. You'd think they would wish to take some responsibility to make sure they were better informed. 

The work with the Monmouthshire Building Society does continue. There are, as they will have explained, some regulatory hurdles that they have to pass. It's one of the reasons why we have formed an alliance with them in developing the community bank, because they are an established and well-respected financial service provider. Solving some of those regulatory hurdles is easier when you are working with them. 

It is very important; I agree completely with what Mark Isherwood said. The community bank is intended to be an addition to the services that are there already—alongside, but not in competition with, credit unions, post offices and other service providers. Part of the reason why they will have said to the Member that it is better to get this right rather than to get it done quickly is to make sure that, when the community bank is operational, it has the right range of services and is able to provide them alongside those other services that are already there and that do a great deal of good in the lives of people for whom conventional financial institutions have, in recent years, more and more, stepped back from providing a service.

Yn gyntaf, Llywydd, rwy'n cytuno â'r gyfres o bwyntiau y gwnaeth Mark Isherwood ar ddechrau ei gwestiwn. Mae'n bwysig iawn ein bod ni'n gallu darparu mynediad at arian parod ar gyfer y cymunedau niferus hynny sy'n dibynnu arno.

Rwy'n synnu nad oedd Swyddfa'r Post yng Nghymru wedi clywed am ddatblygiadau'r banc cymunedol, o gofio iddyn nhw gael cyhoeddusrwydd eang iawn a'u trafod dro ar ôl tro ar lawr y Siambr hon. O ystyried bod hyn yn ganolog i'w gweithgarwch, mae'n syndod mawr yn wir i ddarganfod ei bod yn ymddangos nad ydyn nhw wedi gweld hyn. Byddech chi'n meddwl y bydden nhw'n dymuno cymryd rhywfaint o gyfrifoldeb i sicrhau eu bod yn fwy gwybodus. 

Mae'r gwaith gyda Monmouthshire Building Society yn parhau. Mae yna, fel y byddan nhw wedi esbonio, rai rhwystrau rheoleiddio y mae'n rhaid iddyn nhw eu bodloni. Mae'n un o'r rhesymau pam ein bod ni wedi ffurfio cynghrair gyda nhw wrth ddatblygu'r banc cymunedol, oherwydd eu bod yn ddarparwr gwasanaeth ariannol sefydledig ac uchel ei barch. Mae datrys rhai o'r rhwystrau rheoleiddio hynny yn haws pan fyddwch chi'n gweithio gyda nhw.

Mae'n bwysig iawn; rwy'n cytuno'n llwyr â'r hyn y dywedodd Mark Isherwood. Bwriad y banc cymunedol yw ychwanegu at y gwasanaethau sydd yno'n barod—ochr yn ochr, ond nid mewn cystadleuaeth ag undebau credyd, swyddfeydd post a darparwyr gwasanaethau eraill. Rhan o'r rheswm pam y byddan nhw wedi dweud wrth yr Aelod ei bod yn well cael hyn yn iawn yn hytrach na'i wneud yn gyflym yw sicrhau, pan fydd y banc cymunedol yn weithredol, fod ganddo'r amrywiaeth gywir o wasanaethau a'i fod yn gallu eu darparu ochr yn ochr â'r gwasanaethau eraill hynny sydd yno eisoes ac sy'n gwneud llawer iawn o les ym mywydau pobl y mae sefydliadau ariannol confensiynol, yn y blynyddoedd diwethaf, mwy a mwy, wedi camu'n ôl o ddarparu gwasanaeth.

14:35
2. Datganiad a Chyhoeddiad Busnes
2. Business Statement and Announcement

Yr eitem nesaf yw'r datganiad a chyhoeddiad busnes. Dwi'n galw ar y Trefnydd i wneud y datganiad hwnnw. Lesley Griffiths.

The next item is the business statement and announcement. I call on the Trefnydd to make that statement. Lesley Griffiths.

Member
Lesley Griffiths MS 14:35:38
Minister for Rural Affairs and North Wales, and Trefnydd

Diolch, Llywydd. There are two changes to today's agenda. The Deputy Minister for Social Services will make an oral statement on the publication of the child practice review into the death of Logan Mwangi as the first item immediately after the business statement. Additionally, the statement by the Minister for Social Justice on the international day of disabled persons has been moved further down the agenda. Draft business for the next three weeks is set out on the business statement and announcement, which can be found amongst the meeting papers available to Members electronically.

Diolch, Llywydd. Mae dau newid i'r agenda heddiw. Bydd y Dirprwy Weinidog Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol yn gwneud datganiad llafar ar gyhoeddi'r adolygiad ymarfer plant i farwolaeth Logan Mwangi fel yr eitem gyntaf yn syth ar ôl y datganiad busnes. Yn ogystal â hyn, mae'r datganiad gan y Gweinidog Cyfiawnder Cymdeithasol ar ddiwrnod rhyngwladol pobl anabl wedi cael ei symud ymhellach i lawr yr agenda. Mae busnes drafft ar gyfer y tair wythnos nesaf wedi'i nodi ar y datganiad busnes a'r cyhoeddiad, sydd i'w weld ymhlith y papurau cyfarfod sydd ar gael i'r Aelodau yn electronig.

Can I call for a statement from the Welsh Government Minister with responsibility for designated landscapes about what action is being taken to protect those landscapes from erosion as a result of off-road vehicles accessing them? We've got particular problems on Moel Famau at the moment, in my own constituency, where motorcyclists and others seem to be accessing the footpaths, causing a lot of erosion, damage to vegetation and subsoil. And of course, this is not just in an area of outstanding natural beauty, which we hope will be designated as a national park in the not-too-distant future, but it's on the all-important Offa's Dyke footpath as well, which, of course, is a scheduled monument. It's unacceptable, we need to do more work to address this problem on a co-ordinated basis, and I wonder what action the Welsh Government might be able to take. If you could bring forward a statement, I'd be most grateful.

A gaf i alw am ddatganiad gan Weinidog Llywodraeth Cymru sy'n gyfrifol am dirweddau dynodedig ynglŷn â pha gamau sy'n cael eu cymryd i ddiogelu'r tirweddau hynny rhag erydiad o ganlyniad i gerbydau oddi ar y ffordd yn mynd iddynt? Mae gennym ni broblemau arbennig ar Moel Famau, yn fy etholaeth fy hun, ar hyn o bryd, lle mae'n ymddangos bod beicwyr modur ac eraill yn mynd ar y llwybrau troed, gan achosi llawer o erydiad, difrod i lystyfiant ac isbridd. Ac wrth gwrs, nid dim ond mewn ardal o harddwch naturiol eithriadol y mae hyn, y gobeithiwn ni y bydd yn cael ei dynodi'n barc cenedlaethol yn y dyfodol agos, ond mae ar lwybr troed Clawdd Offa hollbwysig hefyd, sydd, wrth gwrs, yn heneb gofrestredig. Mae'n annerbyniol, mae angen i ni wneud mwy o waith i ymdrin â'r broblem hon ar sail gyd-gysylltiedig, a tybed pa gamau y gallai Llywodraeth Cymru eu cymryd. Os gallech chi gyflwyno datganiad, byddwn i'n ddiolchgar iawn.

Thank you. I think that probably cuts across both my own portfolio and that of the Minister for Climate Change, so I will have a discussion with her. Certainly, within my portfolio, I'm looking at the new national park, but I haven't had any discussions about that, or I wasn't aware of any issues around it. But I will certainly have a discussion with her and see if there is any further information.

Diolch. Rwy'n credu bod hynny, mae'n debyg, yn berthnasol i fy mhortffolio fy hun ac un y Gweinidog Newid Hinsawdd, felly fe wnaf i gael trafodaeth â hi. Yn sicr, yn fy mhortffolio i, rwy’n ystyried y parc cenedlaethol newydd, ond nid wyf wedi cael unrhyw drafodaethau am hynny, neu nid oeddwn i'n ymwybodol o unrhyw faterion yn ei gylch. Ond yn sicr, byddaf i'n cael trafodaeth â hi ac yn gweld os oes unrhyw wybodaeth arall.

Oes modd i ni gael datganiad llafar neu ysgrifenedig ar drafnidiaeth ysgol, os gwelwch yn dda?

Could we have an oral or written statement on school transport, please?

At 07:30 on Thursday morning, parents and local representatives walked from Maesteg park down to Ysgol Gyfun Gymraeg Llangynwyd, to highlight how long and unsafe the route to school is to walk. It took them roughly 45 minutes to an hour to make the journey, and that happened to be an okay day weather-wise, but the reality is that kids are walking in all weathers. I understand that budgets are tight, but parents tell me that many of the buses that take those from outside of the mileage thresholds to school are half empty as they pass kids who live within the thresholds. I would hope that the Government would look to step in.

Am 07:30 fore Iau, cerddodd rhieni a chynrychiolwyr lleol o Barc Maesteg i lawr i Ysgol Gyfun Gymraeg Llangynwyd er mwyn tynnu sylw at ba mor hir ac anniogel y mae'r llwybr i'r ysgol i'w gerdded. Fe gymerodd hi tua 45 munud i awr iddyn nhw wneud y daith, ac roedd hynny'n digwydd bod yn ddiwrnod eithaf da o ran tywydd, ond y gwir amdani yw bod plant yn cerdded ym mhob tywydd. Rwy'n deall bod cyllidebau'n dynn, ond mae rhieni'n dweud wrthyf i fod llawer o'r bysiau sy'n mynd â'r rhai hynny o'r tu allan i'r trothwyon milltiroedd i'r ysgol yn hanner gwag wrth iddyn nhw basio plant sy'n byw o fewn y trothwyon. Byddwn i'n gobeithio y byddai'r Llywodraeth yn edrych i gamu i'r adwy.

This really is a matter for the relevant local authority. I would really advise you to contact the local authority, to see if there is anything more—. Clearly, you don't want to see children walking to school when buses are passing not at full capacity.

Mae hyn mewn gwirionedd yn fater i'r awdurdod lleol perthnasol. Byddwn i wir yn eich cynghori chi i gysylltu â'r awdurdod lleol, i weld a oes unrhyw beth mwy—. Yn amlwg, nid ydych chi eisiau gweld plant yn cerdded i'r ysgol pan fo bysiau'n pasio heb fod yn llawn.

I'm asking for two Government statements. The first is an update on transport proposals for the Swansea bay city region. I've been told that, from December 2022, timetable changes for west Wales to Cardiff mean that there are no trains calling in Llansamlet station from 2.06 p.m. until 4.58 p.m. on Monday to Friday. How are we supposed to attract passengers to the service? Also, can the statement include when the hourly Swanline service is going to start?

The second statement I'm requesting is an update on renewable energy in Wales—a statement to include tidal, onshore and offshore wind, and solar. I very much welcome the use of the solar farm next to Morriston Hospital to provide energy to the hospital, and would like to see a plan for more of those across Wales. The tidal lagoon in Swansea was turned down on the grounds of the availability of cheap gas—remember that? As that is no longer true, can the statement also include proposals for tidal lagoons?

Rwy'n gofyn am ddau ddatganiad gan y Llywodraeth. Yr wybodaeth ddiweddaraf ar gynigion trafnidiaeth ar gyfer dinas-ranbarth Bae Abertawe yw'r cyntaf. Rydw i wedi cael gwybod bod newidiadau yn yr amserlen, o fis Rhagfyr 2022, yn golygu nad oes trenau'n galw yng ngorsaf Llansamlet o 2.06 p.m. tan 4.58 p.m. ddydd Llun i ddydd Gwener. Sut ydyn ni i fod i ddenu teithwyr i'r gwasanaeth? Hefyd, all y datganiad gynnwys pryd fydd gwasanaeth bob awr Swanline yn dechrau?

Yr ail ddatganiad rwy'n gofyn amdano yw'r wybodaeth ddiweddaraf ar ynni adnewyddadwy yng Nghymru—datganiad i gynnwys llanw, gwynt ar y tir ac ar y môr, a solar. Rwy'n croesawu'n fawr defnyddio'r fferm solar y drws nesaf i Ysbyty Treforys i ddarparu ynni i'r ysbyty, a hoffwn i weld cynllun ar gyfer mwy o'r rheiny ledled Cymru. Cafodd y morlyn llanw yn Abertawe ei wrthod ar sail bod nwy rhad ar gael—ydych chi'n cofio hynny? Gan nad yw hynny'n wir nawr, all y datganiad hefyd gynnwys cynigion am forlyn llanw?

Thank you. Transport for Wales absolutely recognise the importance of attracting more passengers onto rail services. As you know, they're introducing brand-new trains across Wales in 2023, and I think some new trains have already been introduced. I'm not aware of any reduction in Transport for Wales services calling at Llansamlet station. I will certainly check that that is the case, but I'm not aware of that. In relation to the Swanline service, Transport for Wales are currently working on the business case to introduce an hourly Swanline service. As I say, the business case is currently being put together.

In relation to renewable energy, the Member will be aware that the Minister for Climate Change absolutely has a vision for Wales to host renewable generation to at least fully meet our energy needs while also retaining wealth and value here in Wales. She is currently implementing the recommendations of the deep dive that she undertook earlier this year. It's really good that you mentioned Morriston Hospital. Certainly, we are doing all we can to encourage more energy projects on the public estate here in Wales.

Diolch. Mae Trafnidiaeth Cymru yn cydnabod yn llwyr bwysigrwydd denu mwy o deithwyr i wasanaethau rheilffordd. Fel y gwyddoch chi, maen nhw'n cyflwyno trenau newydd sbon ar draws Cymru yn 2023, ac rwy'n credu bod rhai trenau newydd eisoes wedi'u cyflwyno. Nid ydw i'n ymwybodol o unrhyw ostyngiad yng ngwasanaethau Trafnidiaeth Cymru yn galw yng ngorsaf Llansamlet. Yn sicr, fe wna i gadarnhau bod hynny'n wir, ond nid ydw i'n ymwybodol o hynny. O ran gwasanaeth Swanline, mae Trafnidiaeth Cymru ar hyn o bryd yn gweithio ar yr achos busnes i gyflwyno gwasanaeth Swanline bob awr. Fel rwy'n dweud, mae'r achos busnes yn cael ei ddatblygu ar hyn o bryd.

O ran ynni adnewyddadwy, bydd yr Aelod yn ymwybodol bod gan y Gweinidog Newid Hinsawdd yn sicr weledigaeth i Gymru gynnal cynhyrchu adnewyddadwy i ddiwallu ein hanghenion ynni ni yn llawn o leiaf gan hefyd gadw cyfoeth a gwerth yma yng Nghymru. Ar hyn o bryd mae hi'n gweithredu argymhellion yr archwiliad manwl y cyflawnodd yn gynharach eleni. Mae'n dda iawn eich bod chi wedi sôn am Ysbyty Treforys. Yn sicr, rydym ni'n gwneud popeth o fewn ein gallu i annog mwy o brosiectau ynni ar yr ystad gyhoeddus yma yng Nghymru.

14:40

Minister, please can I ask for a statement from the Deputy Minister for Mental Health and Well-being about mental health provision? I recently went on a ride-along with Gwent Police to get an insight into what life is like for police officers across south-east Wales. It was an incredibly eye-opening experience, and it was a great opportunity to have some open and frank discussions with officers and staff from across the force. Obviously, I understand, accept and respect that policing is a devolved matter, and I've written to the Home Secretary about some of the things raised with me, but it's clear that some action could be taken by the Welsh Government to help our police forces. 

The main issue that came up time and time again during my time on the beat was the lack of mental health facilities across south-east Wales. Police officers have a duty of care to someone in the midst of a mental health crisis—and I must stress that everyone I spoke to have no problem in doing this, helping them and supporting them regardless of the circumstances. However, there have been instances of officers spending hours on end with patients because there simply isn't enough capacity within our mental health facilities for them to be seen. Because of the lengthy delays in the police handing over the patient to health professionals, officers are out of action for far too long. I was told several times that these delays are a result of Wales having the worst A&E waits and slowest ambulance response times in Britain. With the majority of mental health facilities in south-east Wales operating out of St Cadoc's and the Grange, it's clear, Minister, that provisions need to be expanded, and sooner rather than later. So, will the Deputy Minister please outline what work the Welsh Government is specifically doing or plans to do to improve mental health facilities in south-east Wales and the rest of the country? Thank you.

Gweinidog, os gwelwch yn dda a gaf i ofyn am ddatganiad gan y Dirprwy Weinidog Iechyd Meddwl a Llesiant am ddarpariaeth iechyd meddwl? Yn ddiweddar fe es i ar daith gyda Heddlu Gwent i gael deall sut fywyd sydd gan swyddogion heddlu ar draws y de-ddwyrain. Roedd yn agoriadol llygaid llwyr, ac roedd yn gyfle gwych i gael trafodaethau agored ac onest gyda swyddogion a staff o bob rhan o'r llu. Yn amlwg, rwy'n deall, yn derbyn ac yn parchu bod plismona yn fater datganoledig, ac rwyf i wedi ysgrifennu at yr Ysgrifennydd Cartref am rai o'r pethau sydd wedi'u codi gyda mi, ond mae'n amlwg y gallai Llywodraeth Cymru gymryd rhai camau i helpu ein heddluoedd. 

Y prif fater a gododd dro ar ôl tro yn ystod fy nghyfnod ar y bît oedd diffyg cyfleusterau iechyd meddwl ledled y de-ddwyrain. Mae gan swyddogion heddlu ddyletswydd gofal i rywun yng nghanol argyfwng iechyd meddwl—ac mae'n rhaid i mi bwysleisio nad oes gan bawb y siaradais i â nhw unrhyw broblem yn gwneud hyn, yn eu helpu a'u cefnogi waeth beth yw eu hamgylchiadau. Fodd bynnag, mae achosion o swyddogion yn treulio oriau maith gyda chleifion oherwydd yn syml, does dim digon o allu o fewn ein cyfleusterau iechyd meddwl iddyn nhw gael eu gweld. Oherwydd yr oedi hir o ran yr heddlu yn trosglwyddo'r claf i weithwyr iechyd proffesiynol, mae swyddogion yn anweithredol am lawer rhy hir. Cefais wybod sawl tro bod yr oedi yma oherwydd bod gan Gymru yr amseroedd aros damweiniau ac achosion brys hiraf a'r amseroedd ymateb ambiwlansys arafaf ym Mhrydain. Gyda'r rhan fwyaf o gyfleusterau iechyd meddwl yn y de-ddwyrain yn gweithredu o Ysbyty Sant Cadog ac Ysbyty'r Faenor, mae'n amlwg, Gweinidog, bod angen ehangu darpariaethau, yn gynt yn hytrach nag yn hwyrach. Felly, a wnaiff y Dirprwy Weinidog amlinellu pa waith y mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn ei wneud yn benodol neu'n bwriadu ei wneud i wella cyfleusterau iechyd meddwl yn y de-ddwyrain a gweddill y wlad? Diolch.

Thank you. I think we absolutely recognise what you are saying, that sometimes police are spending too long with somebody who really should be accessing mental health services, for instance in the way that you set out. I know a significant amount of work is being done between health boards and the Deputy Minister for mental health to ensure that that isn't the case. You talk about the longest waits in the UK—you will have heard the First Minister address that in an answer to Laura Anne Jones. I do think you raise a really important point; it is absolutely right that a person is with the right emergency service, is not stopping police then getting on with what they do, and is accessing the correct services.

Diolch. Rwy'n credu ein bod ni'n cydnabod yn llwyr yr hyn yr ydych chi'n ei ddweud, bod yr heddlu weithiau'n treulio'n rhy hir gyda rhywun a ddylai fod yn cael defnyddio gwasanaethau iechyd meddwl mewn gwirionedd, er enghraifft yn y ffordd yr ydych chi'n nodi. Rwy'n gwybod bod tipyn o waith yn cael ei wneud rhwng y byrddau iechyd a'r Dirprwy Weinidog Iechyd Meddwl i sicrhau nad yw hynny'n wir. Rydych chi'n sôn am yr aros hiraf yn y DU—byddwch chi wedi clywed y Prif Weinidog yn ymdrin â hynny mewn ateb i Laura Anne Jones. Rwy'n credu eich bod chi'n codi pwynt pwysig iawn; mae'n gwbl gywir bod person gyda'r gwasanaeth brys cywir, ac nad yw felly'n rhwystro'r heddlu rhag bwrw ymlaen â'r hyn y maen nhw'n ei wneud, a'i fod yn cael mynd at y gwasanaethau cywir.

Trefnydd, hoffwn ofyn am ddatganiad, os gwelwch yn dda, gan Weinidog yr Economi. Droeon, rydyn ni wedi codi faint o gyfle ydy o bod Cymru yn cystadlu yng nghwpan y byd yn Qatar o ran proffil Cymru yn rhyngwladol, a'r ffaith ein bod ni rŵan yn gweld pobl yn Gwglo yn ystod y gêm yn erbyn Unol Daleithiau America am Gymru, eisiau gwybod mwy am ein gwlad, a gobeithio felly yn gwybod am ein daliadau ni a'r hyn sy'n bwysig i ni a'n bod ni ddim yn cytuno efo'r safbwynt, er enghraifft, o ran sut mae pobl LGBTQ+ yn cael eu trin yn Qatar, ac ati.

Ond, yr hyn rydyn ni wedi bod yn holi nifer o weithiau i Weinidog yr Economi ydy beth ydy'r mesurau bydd Llywodraeth Cymru yn edrych arnynt i fesur gwerth y buddsoddiad sy'n gysylltiedig gydag ymgyrch tîm dynion Cymru yn cystadlu yn nhwrnamaint cwpan y byd. Gwn i Tom Giffard godi hyn ar 27 Medi efo'r Gweinidog, a bod y Gweinidog wedi dweud y byddai yn rhannu'r data yna efo ni cyn i'r gystadleuaeth ddechrau. Mi wnes i ysgrifennu ato fo hefyd, ac mi ges i lythyr nôl yr wythnos diwethaf yn dweud, 'Rydym yn cynnal gwerthusiad llawn o'n gweithgareddau sydd ynghlwm wrth gwpan y byd. Bydd y mesurau yn cynnwys metrics marchnata penodol' ac yn y blaen, ond dim byd pendant. Plis gawn ni ddatganiad efo'r mesurau hyn? Mi ddylem ni fod wedi eu derbyn nhw'n barod, ond, a gawn ni nhw rŵan, cyn i Gymru gyrraedd y ffeinal? Diolch.

Trefnydd, I'd like to ask for a statement, please, from the Minister for Economy. We've regularly raised the opportunity that Wales has in competing in the world cup in Qatar in terms of our international profile, and the fact that we are now seeing people Googling during the game against the US, wanting to know more about our country, and knowing about what's important to us and our values, and that we don't agree with how the LGBTQ+ community is treated in Qatar, and so on.

But, what we have been asking many times of the Minister for Economy is what steps will the Welsh Government consider to measure the value of the investment in relation to the Cymru men's team competing in the world cup. I know that Tom Giffard raised this on 27 September with the Minister, and that the Minister had said that he would share that data with us before the beginning of the competition. I wrote to him too, and I received a letter back last week saying, 'We are holding a full evaluation of our activities related to the world cup. The measures will include marketing metrics', and so on and so forth, but there was nothing concrete there. So, can we have a statement setting these things out? We should have already received that. Can we have them now, before Wales reaches the final? Thank you.

I'm sure we could do that. As you know, the Minister for Economy is currently in Qatar and will obviously be bringing forward a written statement on his return setting out what meetings et cetera he will have had while he was in Qatar. I hope Members saw the First Minister's written statement following his visit—I think it was yesterday that that was published. You mention a specific point about the data and that you've had a response from the Minister for Economy setting out that we're having a full evaluation. I will make sure that full evaluation data is also either put in correspondence to you and a letter put in the library, or via written statement. 

Rwy'n siŵr y gallem ni wneud hynny. Fel y gwyddoch chi, mae Gweinidog yr Economi yn Qatar ar hyn o bryd ac yn amlwg bydd yn cyflwyno datganiad ysgrifenedig ar ôl dychwelyd yn nodi pa gyfarfodydd ac ati y bydd wedi'u cael tra yr oedd yn Qatar. Rwy'n gobeithio i Aelodau weld datganiad ysgrifenedig y Prif Weinidog yn dilyn ei ymweliad ef—rwy'n credu mai ddoe y cafodd hwnnw ei gyhoeddi. Rydych chi'n sôn am bwynt penodol am y data a'ch bod chi wedi cael ymateb gan Weinidog yr Economi yn nodi ein bod ni'n cael gwerthusiad llawn. Byddaf i'n sicrhau bod data gwerthuso llawn hefyd naill ai'n cael ei roi mewn gohebiaeth i chi a bod llythyr yn cael ei roi yn y llyfrgell, neu drwy ddatganiad ysgrifenedig. 

14:45

Following up from what Heledd Fychan has said, I read with interest the statement that the First Minister put out yesterday about the achievements of his visit in terms of promoting Welsh interests and Welsh values. Now, I very much appreciate the action taken by the Deputy Minister for Culture and Sport not to attend last week's match between Wales and Iran in light of the brutal suppression of people demonstrating in Iran over the death of Mahsa Amini over two months ago and the need for human rights to be respected, particularly women's rights, there. Following that very welcome stand in support of human rights, what conversations has the Welsh Government had with the UK Government about taking robust action against this misogynist Government in Tehran, and whether that could be freezing assets in this country or expelling Iran's diplomats to make this regime understand that we cannot simply have women's rights in particular being trampled all over? So, I wonder if we could have a statement on that in due course. 

Gan ddilyn ymlaen o'r hyn a ddywedodd Heledd Fychan, darllenais gyda diddordeb y datganiad a gafodd ei gyhoeddi gan y Prif Weinidog ddoe am gyflawniadau ei ymweliad o ran hyrwyddo buddiannau Cymru a gwerthoedd Cymru. Nawr, rwy'n gwerthfawrogi'n fawr y camau y gwnaeth y Dirprwy Weinidog Diwylliant a Chwaraeon eu cymryd drwy beidio â mynd i'r gêm yr wythnos ddiwethaf rhwng Cymru ac Iran o ystyried bod pobl sy'n protestio yn Iran dros farwolaeth Mahsa Amini dros ddeufis yn ôl yn cael eu hatal yn greulon, a'r angen i hawliau dynol gael eu parchu, yn enwedig hawliau menywod, yno. Yn dilyn yr union safiad hwnnw a oedd i'w groesawi i gefnogi hawliau dynol, pa sgyrsiau y mae Llywodraeth Cymru wedi'u cael gyda Llywodraeth y DU am gymryd camau cadarn yn erbyn y Llywodraeth misogynistaidd hon yn Tehran, ac a allai hynny gynnwys rhewi asedau yn y wlad hon neu ddiarddel diplomyddion Iran i wneud i'r drefn hon ddeall na allwn ni, yn syml, oddef hawliau menywod yn benodol yn cael eu sathru? Felly, tybed a gawn ni ddatganiad ar hynny maes o law. 

Thank you. I'm not personally aware of any conversations that have taken place between any of my ministerial colleagues and the UK Government, but I will certainly make inquiries and update the Member if there have been such conversations. 

Diolch. Yn bersonol, nid ydw i'n ymwybodol o unrhyw sgyrsiau sydd wedi digwydd rhwng unrhyw un o fy nghydweithwyr gweinidogol a Llywodraeth y DU, ond yn sicr fe wnaf i ymholiadau ac fe wnaf roi'r wybodaeth ddiweddaraf i'r Aelod os oes sgyrsiau o'r fath wedi bod. 

Trefnydd, can I ask that the Minister for Climate Change makes a statement on the impact of the UK emissions trading scheme, ETS, on Wales's energy sector? Last week, I met with the Haven energy forum, a collection of industry representatives who have expressed their collective concern about the operation and future implementation of the ETS. Businesses include Valero oil refinery and RWE power station in my constituency of Carmarthen West and South Pembrokeshire. Such concerns are focused on the lack of alignment with decarbonisation technology roll-out, uncertainty surrounding the future of free allowances, changes to the carbon leakage sector list and inconsistencies within the interpretation of legislation. Given this apprehension, an update from the climate change Minister would be appreciated to give businesses reassurance as we decarbonise the industries. Diolch, Llywydd. 

Trefnydd, a gaf i ofyn i'r Gweinidog Newid Hinsawdd wneud datganiad ar effaith cynllun masnachu allyriadau'r DU, ETS, ar sector ynni Cymru? Yr wythnos diwethaf, cwrddais â fforwm ynni Haven, casgliad o gynrychiolwyr o'r diwydiant sydd wedi mynegi eu pryder ar y cyd am weithredu a rhoi'r ETS ar waith yn y dyfodol. Mae'r busnesau'n cynnwys purfa olew Valero a gorsaf bŵer RWE yn fy etholaeth i yng Ngorllewin Caerfyrddin a De Sir Benfro. Mae pryderon o'r fath yn canolbwyntio ar y diffyg cyfochri â chyflwyno technoleg datgarboneiddio, ansicrwydd ynghylch dyfodol lwfansau am ddim, newidiadau i'r rhestr sector gollwng carbon ac anghysondebau o fewn dehongli deddfwriaeth. O ystyried y pryderon hyn, byddai'r wybodaeth ddiweddaraf gan y Gweinidog Newid Hinsawdd yn cael ei werthfawrogi i roi sicrwydd i fusnesau wrth i ni ddatgarboneiddio'r diwydiannau. Diolch, Llywydd. 

Well, bringing forward the UK ETS has been a very long and complex piece of work, and I will certainly ask the Minister for Climate Change to bring forward a statement—there are conversations, I know, going on between the two Governments in relation to this—at the most appropriate time, maybe in the new year. But, I will ask her to bring forward a written statement. 

Wel, mae datblygu ETS y DU wedi bod yn ddarn o waith hir a chymhleth iawn, ac yn sicr, fe wnaf ofyn i'r Gweinidog Newid Hinsawdd gyflwyno datganiad—mae sgyrsiau, rwy'n gwybod, yn digwydd rhwng y ddwy Lywodraeth am hyn—ar yr adeg fwyaf priodol, efallai yn y flwyddyn newydd. Ond, fe wnaf ofyn iddi gyflwyno datganiad ysgrifenedig. 

Good afternoon, Trefnydd. I also want to support the statements made by my colleague Heledd, and by Jenny as well, in relation to human rights around the world. And just once again, looking at Qatar, I wonder if I could have a statement around how the First Minister raised the issues of human rights with the people who he met with. It's something that he did commit to and he did say that he would be raising those specific issues. We continue to hear of the concerns. Today, I understand the Qatari Government acknowledged that between 400 and 500 foreign workers had died on construction projects. That's a vast underestimate, but it is an acknowledgement. And it is shameful that our Government officials—as you know, I've been very much against any Government officials going to the Qatari world cup—should use those stadiums where people have died in terms of constructing them. So, I would like a statement to let us know how those human rights issues have been raised. Thank you. Diolch yn fawr iawn. 

Prynhawn da, Trefnydd. Rwyf i hefyd eisiau cefnogi'r datganiadau a wnaed gan fy nghyd-Aelod Heledd, a gan Jenny hefyd, o ran hawliau dynol ledled y byd. A gan unwaith eto, ystyried Qatar, tybed a gawn ni ddatganiad ynghylch sut y cododd y Prif Weinidog faterion hawliau dynol gyda'r bobl y gwnaeth ef gyfarfod â nhw. Mae'n rhywbeth y gwnaeth ef ymrwymo iddo ac fe ddywedodd y byddai'n codi'r materion penodol hynny. Rydym ni'n parhau i glywed am y pryderon. Heddiw, rwy'n deall bod Llywodraeth Qatar yn cydnabod bod rhwng 400 a 500 o weithwyr tramor wedi marw ar brosiectau adeiladu. Mae hynny'n danamcangyfrif enfawr, ond mae'n gydnabyddiaeth. Ac mae'n gywilyddus bod swyddogion ein Llywodraeth ni—fel y gwyddoch chi, rwyf i wedi bod yn daer yn erbyn unrhyw swyddogion y Llywodraeth yn mynd i gwpan y byd Qatar—yn defnyddio'r stadiymau hynny lle mae pobl wedi marw yn eu hadeiladu nhw. Felly, hoffwn i ddatganiad i roi gwybod i ni sut mae'r materion hawliau dynol hynny wedi cael eu codi. Diolch. Diolch yn fawr iawn. 

Thank you. Jane Dodds raises a very important point, and you will have heard both the First Minister and probably the Minister for Economy set out the reasons why they believed it was right to attend the matches that they have. You will have seen the written statement from the First Minister, which was published earlier this week, setting out the meetings that he had and the ways that he certainly did what you've just referred to, as well as raising the profile of Wales. And I will certainly ask the Minister for Economy to bring forward a written statement on his return—I think he's back tomorrow—either later this week or early next week. 

Diolch. Mae Jane Dodds yn codi pwynt pwysig iawn, a byddwch chi wedi clywed y Prif Weinidog, ac mae'n debyg Gweinidog yr Economi, yn nodi'r rhesymau pam eu bod yn credu'i bod yn iawn mynd i'r gemau y gwnaethon nhw. Byddwch chi wedi gweld y datganiad ysgrifenedig gan y Prif Weinidog, a gafodd ei gyhoeddi yn gynharach yr wythnos hon, yn nodi'r cyfarfodydd y cafodd a'r ffyrdd, yn sicr, y gwnaeth ef yr hyn yr ydych chi newydd gyfeirio ato, yn ogystal â chodi proffil Cymru. Ac yn sicr fe wnaf i ofyn i Weinidog yr Economi gyflwyno datganiad ysgrifenedig ar ôl dychwelyd—rwy'n credu ei fod yn ôl yfory—naill ai'n ddiweddarach yr wythnos hon neu'n gynnar yr wythnos nesaf. 

Can I call for a single statement, from the Minister for Economy, ideally with the Deputy Minister for Climate Change, on support for businesses affected by the closure of Menai suspension bridge? Last Friday, I met online with the local MP, Virginia Crosbie, my fellow North Wales MS Sam Rowlands, and Menai Bridge businesses concerned about the impact on them of the Welsh Government’s closure of the bridge. Businesses told us they feel they’re not being listened to. They said the whole public perception that people cannot get on and off the island has also affected Beaumaris, when the only real issue is in the morning and the evening, and they ask whether anyone can do anything about getting some work started on the bridge. It’s already been closed for more than a month, but nobody’s seen anyone working on it, and they fear the bridge will be closed for a long time, which would devastate them. They said that if you go two miles up the road, there are still issues—they need to get the traffic sorted, they need free parking, business rates relief, and banners on the A55, signposting people to the centres such as Menai Bridge and Beaumaris, advertising that they’re well and truly open. They complained about hysterics on social media affecting both locals and tourists on which they rely, and they need Visit Wales to be pushing the message that they are open. They said, 'We just need hope, and to promote that our island is open, where our tourism trade is being decimated and our supply chains affected.' I urge the relevant Ministers to come forward with a statement accordingly where these many, many businesses—excellent businesses—providing key services to local people are at great risk. Diolch.

A gaf i alw am un datganiad, gan Weinidog yr Economi, yn ddelfrydol gyda'r Dirprwy Weinidog Newid Hinsawdd, ar gefnogaeth i fusnesau sydd wedi'u heffeithio gan gau pont grog Menai? Ddydd Gwener diwethaf, fe gwrddais i ar-lein â'r AS lleol, Virginia Crosbie, fy nghyd-Aelod AS y gogledd Sam Rowlands, a busnesau Porthaethwy sy'n bryderus am yr effaith arnyn nhw ar ôl i Lywodraeth Cymru ei chau. Dywedodd busnesau wrthym ni eu bod yn teimlo nad oes neb yn gwrando arnyn nhw. Dywedon nhw fod yr holl ganfyddiad cyhoeddus na all pobl fynd ar yr ynys nac oddi arni ychwaith wedi effeithio ar Fiwmares, pan fo'r unig wir broblem yn y bore a'r hwyr, ac maen nhw'n gofyn a all unrhyw un wneud unrhyw beth o ran cael gwaith wedi'i gychwyn ar y bont. Mae hi eisoes wedi bod ar gau am fwy na mis, ond nid oes neb wedi gweld unrhyw un yn gweithio arni, ac maen nhw'n ofni y bydd y bont ar gau am gyfnod hir, a fyddai'n eu difetha. Dywedon nhw, os ewch chi ddwy filltir i fyny'r ffordd, fod problemau o hyd—mae angen iddyn nhw gael trefn ar y traffig, mae angen parcio am ddim arnyn nhw, rhyddhad trethi busnes, a baneri ar yr A55, yn cyfeirio pobl i'r canolfannau fel Porthaethwy a Biwmares, yn hysbysebu eu bod nhw ar agor. Roedden nhw'n cwyno am strancio ar y cyfryngau cymdeithasol sy'n effeithio ar bobl leol a thwristiaid maen nhw'n dibynnu arnyn nhw, ac maen nhw angen i Croeso Cymru fod yn gwthio'r neges eu bod ar agor. Dywedon nhw, 'Y cyfan sydd ei angen arnom ni yw gobaith, ac i hyrwyddo bod ein hynys ar agor, lle mae ein masnach dwristiaeth yn cael ei dinistrio a'n cadwyni cyflenwi yn cael eu heffeithio.' Rwy'n annog y Gweinidogion perthnasol i gyflwyno datganiad yn unol â lle mae'r busnesau niferus hyn—busnesau rhagorol—sy'n darparu gwasanaethau allweddol i bobl leol mewn perygl mawr. Diolch.

14:50

Thank you. Welsh Government absolutely recognise that many businesses in the area will be facing uncertainties due to the bridge closure. Welsh Government officials have met with the chief executive and officers of the Isle of Anglesey County Council. The local authority—you’ll be aware, I’m sure—are drafting an action plan for supporting the business community, and I’m aware that the Deputy Minister for Climate Change is very soon visiting the area, where he will, obviously, continue to have those discussions.

Diolch i chi. Mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn llwyr gydnabod y bydd nifer o fusnesau'r ardal yn wynebu ansicrwydd oherwydd bod y bont wedi cau. Mae swyddogion Llywodraeth Cymru wedi cyfarfod gyda phrif weithredwr a swyddogion Cyngor Sir Ynys Môn. Mae'r awdurdod lleol—fel rydych chi'n ymwybodol, rwy'n siŵr—yn drafftio cynllun gweithredu ar gyfer cefnogi'r gymuned fusnes, ac rwy'n ymwybodol bod y Dirprwy Weinidog Newid Hinsawdd yn ymweld â'r ardal yn fuan iawn, lle bydd ef, yn amlwg, yn parhau i gael y trafodaethau hynny.

Diolch, Llywydd. Trefnydd, can I just echo the comments of the Member for Carmarthen West and South Pembrokeshire and also call for a statement from the climate change Minister on the support offered to energy-intensive industries to help businesses reduce their greenhouse gas emissions cost effectively and move to greener practices? I’m sure you’ll agree that Welsh industry has a crucial role to play in transitioning from energy-intensive industries to greener production, and it’s vital that businesses are fully supported in making changes to decarbonise their operations. However, it’s also vital that UK industry is able to participate on a level playing field with global competitors and that there is no risk of carbon leakage as a result of UK carbon pricing policy. I heard your response to the Member for Carmarthen West and South Pembrokeshire, so I hope that we can receive this statement as soon as possible, so that businesses can be reassured and understand how the Welsh Government is supporting them to transition to cleaner energy.

Diolch, Llywydd. Trefnydd, a gaf innau hefyd ddim ond adleisio sylwadau Aelod Gorllewin Caerfyrddin a De Penfro a galw am ddatganiad gan y Gweinidog Newid Hinsawdd am y gefnogaeth a gynigir i ddiwydiannau ynni-ddwys i helpu busnesau i leihau eu hallyriadau nwyon tŷ gwydr mewn ffordd gost effeithiol a symud at arferion gwyrddach? Rwy'n siŵr y byddwch chi'n cytuno bod gan ddiwydiant Cymru swyddogaeth hanfodol wrth drosglwyddo oddi wrth ddiwydiannau ynni-ddwys i gynhyrchu gwyrddach, ac mae hi'n hanfodol bod busnesau yn cael eu cefnogi yn llawn i wneud newidiadau er mwyn datgarboneiddio eu hoffer. Er hynny, mae hi'n hanfodol hefyd bod diwydiant y DU yn gallu cyfranogi mewn ffordd deg â chystadleuwyr byd-eang ac nad oes perygl o ollwng carbon o ganlyniad i bolisi prisio carbon y DU. Fe glywais eich ymateb chi i'r Aelod dros Orllewin Caerfyrddin a De Sir Benfro, ac felly rwy'n gobeithio y gallwn ni gael y datganiad hwn cyn gynted â phosibl, i fusnesau fod â sicrwydd a'u bod yn deall sut mae Llywodraeth Cymru am eu cefnogi nhw i drosglwyddo at ynni glanach.

Yes, thank you, and, as I say, I gave the answer to Sam Kurtz that I will ask the Minister for Climate Change to bring forward a written statement. It may be better in the new year rather than before Christmas, but I will certainly find the most opportune moment to do that. I absolutely take on board your point about energy-intensive businesses. If we are going to reach our net-zero ambitions and targets that we’ve set—and, obviously, we’re working very closely with UK Government to get that UK net-zero position—we do need to look at those energy-heavy industries, going forward.

Ie, diolch i chi, ac, fel rwy'n dweud, fe roddais i'r ateb i Sam Kurtz y byddaf i'n gofyn i'r Gweinidog Newid Hinsawdd gyflwyno datganiad ysgrifenedig. Efallai y byddai hynny'n well yn y flwyddyn newydd yn hytrach na chyn y Nadolig, ond yn sicr fe fyddaf i'n sicr yn gwneud hynny ar yr amser mwyaf manteisiol i wneud felly. Rwy'n deall eich pwynt chi'n llwyr ynglŷn â busnesau ynni-ddwys. Os ydym ni am gyrraedd ein huchelgeisiau a'n nodau sero net y gwnaethom ni eu pennu nhw—ac, yn amlwg, rydyn ni'n gweithio'n agos iawn gyda Llywodraeth y DU i fod yn y sefyllfa honno o ran sero net—mae angen i ni edrych ar y diwydiannau sy'n defnyddio llawer o ynni, wrth symud ymlaen.

3. Datganiad gan y Dirprwy Weinidog Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol: Cyhoeddi'r Adolygiad Ymarfer Plant i farwolaeth Logan Mwangi
3. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Social Services: The publication of the Child Practice Review into the death of Logan Mwangi

Yr eitem nesaf yw’r datganiad gan y Dirprwy Weinidog dros Wasanaethau Cymdeithasol ar gyhoeddi’r adolygiad ymarfer plant i farwolaeth Logan Mwangi, a dwi'n galw ar y Dirprwy Weinidog i wneud ei datganiad—Julie Morgan.

The next item is the statement by the Deputy Minister for Social Services on the publication of the child practice review into the death of Logan Mwangi, and I call on the Deputy Minister to make her statement—Julie Morgan.

Diolch, Llywydd. The death of any child is a cause of great sadness and I want to start by expressing my own deep sorrow at Logan Mwangi’s death, and to take this opportunity to offer my sincere condolences to Mr Ben Mwangi and Logan’s wider family for their awful loss.

The publication last week of the child practice review following the murder of Logan has, I am sure, been an extremely difficult time for Logan’s father and family, especially as it has brought to public attention further details regarding the events that resulted in Logan’s life being taken at such an early age. My heart goes out to him and to everyone affected by Logan’s death.

I have read the report very carefully and I understand and accept the learning themes and recommendations made. At this stage, it would not be appropriate for me to respond in precise detail to all of the recommendations made, as further conversations are necessary with service providers. However, I am wholly committed to doing everything in my power to protect children and to pursue through the courts those who inflict such dreadful pain and misery on the most vulnerable in our society, and I will keep Members informed as work progresses.

Diolch, Llywydd. Mae marwolaeth unrhyw blentyn yn achos tristwch mawr ac rwyf i am ddechrau drwy fynegi fy nhristwch dwfn yn sgil marwolaeth Logan Mwangi, ac achub ar y cyfle hwn i gydymdeimlo yn ddiffuant â Mr Ben Mwangi a theulu Logan yn fwy eang yn eu colled ddirdynnol.

Mae cyhoeddiad yr wythnos ddiwethaf o'r adolygiad o ymarfer plant yn dilyn llofruddiaeth Logan, rwy'n siŵr, wedi bod yn gyfnod hynod o anodd i dad a theulu Logan, yn enwedig gan fod hynny wedi tynnu rhagor o sylw at fanylion eraill ynghylch y digwyddiadau a wnaeth arwain at farwolaeth Logan ar oedran mor gynnar. Rwy'n cydymdeimlo'n fawr ag ef a phob un a gafodd ei effeithio gan farwolaeth Logan.

Rwyf i wedi darllen yr adroddiad yn ofalus iawn ac rwy'n deall ac yn derbyn y themâu ar gyfer dysgu a'r argymhellion sydd wedi cael eu gwneud. Ar hyn o bryd, ni fyddai hi'n briodol i mi ymateb gyda manylder i'r holl argymhellion a wnaethpwyd, gan fod angen sgyrsiau pellach gyda darparwyr gwasanaethau. Eto i gyd, rwyf i wedi ymrwymo yn llwyr i wneud popeth sydd yn fy ngallu i amddiffyn plant ac erlyn yn y llysoedd y rhai sy'n peri'r archoll a'r dioddefaint mwyaf ofnadwy i'r rhai mwyaf agored i niwed yn ein cymdeithas, ac fe fyddaf i'n rhoi gwybod i'r Aelodau wrth i'r gwaith hwn fynd rhagddo.

14:55

Daeth y Dirprwy Lywydd (David Rees) i’r Gadair.

The Deputy Presiding Officer (David Rees) took the Chair.

The purpose of the child practice review is not that of investigation, but to consider our services and help us to learn what we can to improve what we can do to protect children. I am grateful to the review panel for ensuring that they considered areas of learning that have been identified in other reviews throughout Wales and England while conducting this child practice review. It is right that we continue to consider the learning from other such tragic incidents in formulating the approach that is required to make improvements to ensure the protection of children in Wales.

It is, however, a sad and recurring fact that such reviews share, in many cases, similar themes, particularly regarding challenges in sharing knowledge and information across agencies, issues regarding systems and processes, and concerns about leadership and culture. We would all wish for a world where such events as these could never happen and that this would be the last case of its kind. That we cannot always identify individuals who could act like those convicted of Logan’s murder would suggest that it won’t be. However, that must not prevent us from doing everything in our power to reduce the risk as much as we can and provide the help that children in Logan’s position need and deserve.

The review clearly demonstrates that there is scope for practice improvement. Our focus must be to concentrate on the four key learning themes identified within the review that must be considered with the same care and urgency as the 10 local and five national recommendations identified. The learning themes identified are described in the report as being systematic and not isolated instances of individual error or poor practice. It is clear to see from the review that the recommendations are not allocated to one single agency. Child protection requires a multi-agency approach and, as such, all actions required to address these learning themes and implement the recommendations must be taken forward together, based on shared responsibility.

The National Health Service (Wales) Act 2006 and the Social Services and Well-being (Wales) Act 2014 set out the statutory duties for local authorities and local health boards in Wales. While these agencies, of course, must always adhere to such legislation, I will be looking to strengthen the ways in which agencies in Wales work more closely together to deliver our essential services. We all have a responsibility to implement the learning identified within this child practice review and to work together to carry out the actions required to effect change in the systems in which our professionals work and to support them in delivering their work. I expect all relevant agencies to consider the child practice review in full, to take immediate steps to consider how each theme and recommendation applies to them, and to identify how the learning themes and recommendations can be acted upon within the areas for which they are responsible. I will be contacting the senior leaders of agencies who have a responsibility in taking forward the recommendations of the review to ascertain their intended course of action in terms of their response to the child practice review.

Welsh Government has a key strategic role in protecting children, especially the most vulnerable, and I fully accept my role as a Minister in that. In the light of this review and following the report of the Independent Inquiry into Child Sexual Abuse and work already under way in relation to our children’s services transformation programme and elsewhere, I will be accelerating work on a national practice framework to help inform decision making in children’s services. The framework will be a key foundation for how we work in Wales to ensure the best outcomes for our most vulnerable children. It'll help us achieve greater commonality and more seamless working at local, regional and national level so that we can support children to remain with their families, and provide them with the support they need as we transition to fitting services around people, not people around services.

Care Inspectorate Wales have agreed to undertake a rapid review of structures and processes in place to inform decisions about how a child is added to or removed from a child protection register, and I will act on their findings, as necessary. I am aware of the calls for an independent inquiry into children’s services in Wales. Having now read the child practice review, I remain convinced that the time is now for action and not for further review. The findings and recommendations of the child practice review have been generated with consideration of other reviews in England and Wales, and it must be our priority to do what we can now and not wait for another report to tell us what we know already that we have to do. 

To improve the multi-agency approach that I have outlined today, I want to remind Members that we are in the final stages of developing the single unified safeguarding review, which has been developed jointly with stakeholders across Wales. The single unified safeguarding review has been developed to reduce the need for multiple reviews against a same single incident, enabling the swifter completion of reviews, such as child and adult practice reviews, to identify and implement all learning more quickly and on a pan-Wales basis. The draft statutory guidance to support the single unified safeguarding review will be subject to a public consultation exercise, which is planned for early in the new year. 

Whilst it's not routine practice to respond to child practice reviews, I and my Cabinet colleagues felt that it was entirely appropriate to recognise the publication of this review, and I'd like to take this opportunity to personally apologise to Mr Ben Mwangi and his family for the failings that contributed to the tragic loss of Logan's young life. Diolch.

Nid pwrpas yr adolygiad ymarfer plant yw cynnal ymchwiliad, ond ystyried ein gwasanaethau ni a'n cynorthwyo ni i ddysgu beth allwn ni ei wneud i wella yr hyn y gallwn ni ei wneud i amddiffyn plant. Rwy'n ddiolchgar i'r panel adolygu am sicrhau eu bod yn ystyried meysydd dysgu a nodwyd mewn adolygiadau eraill ledled Cymru a Lloegr wrth gynnal yr adolygiad ymarfer plant hwn. Mae hi'n iawn i ni barhau i ystyried dysgu o ddigwyddiadau trasig eraill wrth lunio'r dull gweithredu sy'n ofynnol i wneud gwelliannau i sicrhau diogelwch plant yng Nghymru.

Fodd bynnag, y ffaith drist a chyson amdani yw bod adolygiadau o'r fath yn rhannu, mewn llawer o achosion, themâu tebyg, yn enwedig ynghylch yr heriau o ran rhannu gwybodaeth a data rhwng asiantaethau, a materion ynghylch systemau a phrosesau, a phryderon ynglŷn ag arweinyddiaeth a diwylliant. Fe fyddem ni i gyd yn dymuno gweld byd lle na allai digwyddiadau fel rhain fyth ddigwydd ac mai hwn fyddai'r achos olaf o'i fath. Mae'r ffaith nad ydym ni'n gallu gwybod pob amser pwy yw'r unigolion a allai weithredu fel y rhai a gafwyd yn euog o lofruddiaeth Logan yn awgrymu na fydd hwn yr olaf. Serch hynny, ni ddylai hynny ein hatal ni rhag gwneud popeth sydd yn ein gallu i leihau'r perygl i'r fath raddau ag y gallwn ni a chynnig y cymorth sydd ei angen ar blant yn sefyllfa Logan ac y maen nhw'n ei haeddu.

Mae'r adolygiad yn dangos yn eglur fod cyfle i wella ymarfer. Mae'n rhaid i ni ganolbwyntio ar y pedair thema dysgu allweddol a nodwyd yn yr adolygiad y mae'n rhaid eu hystyried gyda'r un gofal a brys â'r 10 argymhelliad lleol a'r pum argymhelliad cenedlaethol a nodwyd. Disgrifir y themâu dysgu a nodwyd yn yr adroddiad fel rhai cyfundrefnol ac nid achosion ynysig o wall unigol neu arfer gwael mohonyn nhw. Mae hi'n eglur o'r adolygiad nad yw'r argymhellion yn cael eu neilltuo i un asiantaeth unigol. Mae diogelu plant yn gofyn am ddull amlasiantaeth ac, o'r herwydd, mae'n rhaid i'r holl gamau sydd eu hangen i fynd i'r afael â'r themâu dysgu hyn a gweithredu'r argymhellion gael eu cyflwyno gyda'i gilydd, ar sail cyfrifoldeb a rennir.

Mae Deddf Gwasanaeth Iechyd Gwladol (Cymru) 2006 a Deddf Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol a Llesiant (Cymru) 2014, yn nodi'r dyletswyddau statudol sydd ar awdurdodau lleol a byrddau iechyd lleol yng Nghymru. Tra bod yn rhaid i'r asiantaethau hyn, wrth gwrs, gadw at ddeddfwriaeth o'r fath bob amser, byddaf yn ceisio cryfhau'r dulliau fel bod asiantaethau yng Nghymru yn cydweithio â'i gilydd yn fwy agos i ddarparu ein gwasanaethau hanfodol. Mae cyfrifoldeb gan bob un ohonom ni i weithredu'r hyn a ddysgwyd a nodir yn yr adolygiad ymarfer plant hwn a gweithio gyda'n gilydd i gyflawni'r camau sydd eu hangen i greu newid yn y systemau y mae ein gweithwyr proffesiynol yn gweithio ynddyn nhw a'u cefnogi i gyflawni eu gwaith. Rwy'n disgwyl i'r holl asiantaethau perthnasol ystyried yr adolygiad ymarfer plant yn ei gyfanrwydd, a chymryd camau ar unwaith i ystyried sut mae pob thema ac argymhelliad yn berthnasol iddyn nhw, a nodi sut y gellir gweithredu'r themâu a'r argymhellion dysgu o fewn y meysydd y maen nhw'n gyfrifol amdanynt. Byddaf yn cysylltu ag uwch arweinwyr asiantaethau sydd â chyfrifoldeb wrth fwrw ymlaen ag argymhellion yr adolygiad i ganfod eu cwrs gweithredu arfaethedig o ran eu hymateb i'r adolygiad ymarfer plant.

Mae gan Lywodraeth Cymru swyddogaeth strategol allweddol o ran amddiffyn plant, yn enwedig y rhai mwyaf agored i niwed, ac rwy'n derbyn fy swyddogaeth i yn llwyr yn hynny o beth, fel Gweinidog. Yng ngoleuni'r adolygiad hwn ac yn dilyn adroddiad yr Ymchwiliad Annibynnol i Gam-drin Plant yn Rhywiol a gwaith sydd eisoes ar y gweill o ran ein rhaglen i drawsnewid gwasanaethau plant a meysydd eraill, byddaf yn cyflymu gwaith ar fframwaith ymarfer cenedlaethol i helpu i lywio'r broses o wneud penderfyniadau gyda gwasanaethau plant. Bydd y fframwaith yn sylfaen allweddol ar gyfer ein dulliau o weithio yng Nghymru er mwyn sicrhau'r canlyniadau gorau i'n plant mwyaf agored i niwed. Fe fydd yn ein helpu ni i fod â mwy o gyffredinrwydd a gweithio mewn ffordd fwy di-dor ar lefel leol, ranbarthol a chenedlaethol er mwyn cefnogi plant i aros gyda'u teuluoedd, a rhoi'r gefnogaeth sydd ei hangen arnyn nhw wrth i ni newid i addasu gwasanaethau ar gyfer pobl, ac nid addasu pobl ar gyfer gwasanaethau.

Mae Arolygiaeth Gofal Cymru wedi cytuno i gynnal adolygiad cyflym o strwythurau a phrosesau sydd ar waith i lywio penderfyniadau ynghylch sut mae plentyn yn cael ei ychwanegu at neu ei dynnu oddi ar y gofrestr amddiffyn plant, ac fe fyddaf i'n gweithredu ar eu canfyddiadau nhw, yn ôl yr angen. Rwy'n ymwybodol o'r galwadau am ymchwiliad annibynnol i wasanaethau plant yng Nghymru. Gan fy mod wedi darllen yr adolygiad ymarfer plant erbyn hyn, rwyf i'n parhau i fod wedi fy argyhoeddi mai nawr yw'r amser i weithredu ac nid i adolygu ymhellach. Lluniwyd canfyddiadau ac argymhellion yr adolygiad ymarfer plant gydag ystyriaeth o adolygiadau eraill yng Nghymru a Lloegr, ac mae'n rhaid i ni flaenoriaethu gwneud yr hyn a allwn ni nawr a pheidio ag aros am adroddiad arall i ddweud yr hyn yr ydym ni'n gwybod yn barod y mae'n rhaid i ni ei wneud.

I wella'r dull amlasiantaeth a amlinellais i heddiw, rwy'n dymuno atgoffa'r Aelodau ein bod ni ar gamau olaf datblygu'r adolygiad diogelu unedig sengl, a ddatblygwyd ar y cyd â rhanddeiliaid ledled Cymru. Datblygwyd yr adolygiad diogelu unedig sengl i leihau'r angen am nifer o adolygiadau oherwydd un digwyddiad unigol, gan alluogi cwblhau adolygiadau yn gyflymach, megis adolygiadau ymarfer plant ac oedolion, i nodi a gweithredu'r holl ddysgu ar fwy o gyflymder a hynny ym mhob cwr o Gymru. Fe fydd y canllawiau statudol drafft i gefnogi'r adolygiad diogelu unedig sengl yn destun ymarfer ymgynghori cyhoeddus, sydd wedi'i gynllunio ar gyfer dechrau'r flwyddyn newydd.

Er nad yw hi'n arfer arferol i ymateb i adolygiadau ymarfer plant, roeddwn i a fy nghyd-Aelodau yn y Cabinet o'r farn ei bod hi'n gwbl briodol cydnabod cyhoeddiad yr adolygiad hwn, ac fe hoffwn i achub ar y cyfle hwn i ymddiheuro yn bersonol i Mr Ben Mwangi a'i deulu am y methiannau a gyfrannodd at farwolaeth drasig Logan mor ifanc. Diolch.

15:00

I thank you very much for your statement this afternoon, Deputy Minister, and thank you for bringing it to the floor of the Senedd this afternoon. Just before I start the main thrust of my response to your statement, I just want to put on record this afternoon my sincere thoughts to Ben Mwangi, Logan's family and friends and all his social network, who've all been affected by this terrible and tragic murder. As a father of a young boy of a similar age, the thought of the pain and suffering that he would have gone through really goes through me. Whatever Government and local authority processes that we do put it place, it never deflects from the sheer evil and the disgusting people who carried out this sustained period of abuse, neglect and, indeed, murder as well. And I'm pleased to see that the right level of justice was applied to them and that they are, indeed, serving their time at Her Majesty's pleasure—His Majesty's pleasure, I should say.

We can all agree that what happened to Logan Mwangi was a tragedy that should never have happened and something that we should ensure never happens again. Logan's death was preventable had the council's failures been identified sooner and action was taken. The report into Logan shows Bridgend council's blaming of COVID for some of its shortcomings, alongside social workers not being able to follow the Government's guidance because it was not clear or responsive enough to ensure proper safeguarding for vulnerable children during the COVID pandemic. So, does the Deputy Minister accept that if the correct personal protective equipment had been accessible, then social care staff would have been able to assess Logan just 24 hours before his death? And does the Deputy Minister note a lack of leadership from social services in Bridgend to read between the lies being told by the evil perpetrator—that COVID was the reason that Logan couldn't be seen, to deflect from the reality of what was actually happening?

COVID did impact every service that Bridgend council and the Welsh Government provides, but the failure to escalate Logan's situation, despite significant evidence that he needed support, shows that under-staffed departments prove concerns that the council is too reliant on agency workers. So, does the Deputy Minister recognise the over-reliance on agency staff in Bridgend council, and what discussions have you had, or will you have in the future with the authority to recruit full-time workers into the social services department?

And, additionally, the lack of information sharing has brought to prominence a culture of authoritative management, which meant that junior staff were unable to challenge decisions made by their seniors, as in a lot of professions, which this case has proven. Staff must never feel afraid and feel that they are part of a team and all working together in that decision-making process. And in addition to Bridgend council having significant lessons to learn from the recommendation of the report, it's clear that the Welsh Government must enact a Wales-wide review of children's services to genuinely ensure that this never happens again. Leadership is needed and the buck stops with the Welsh Government and the First Minister, who must ensure that Wales is no longer the only nation in the UK without a nationwide children's review.

So, will you rethink your decision to not have a Wales-wide review of children's services, and give cast-iron guarantees to every child, parent and care provider across the 22 authorities that this Welsh Government is on their side and give us the best opportunity to safeguard all children across Wales, because it's unfortunate that the Welsh Government blocks such a review when Wales has the UK's highest rate of looked-after children? I'd just, finally, like to urge the Government to change its direction before we risk another tragedy like Logan Mwangi. Thank you.

Rwy'n diolch yn fawr iawn am eich datganiad chi'r prynhawn yma, Dirprwy Weinidog, a diolch i chi am ddod i'w gyflwyno ar lawr y Senedd y prynhawn yma. Cyn i mi ddechrau prif neges fy ymateb i'ch datganiad chi, fe hoffwn i fynegi ar goedd y prynhawn yma fy nghydymdeimlad diffuant â Ben Mwangi, a theulu a ffrindiau Logan a'i holl rwydwaith cymdeithasol, sydd i gyd wedi cael eu heffeithio gan y llofruddiaeth ofnadwy a thrist iawn hon. Yn dad i fachgen ifanc o oedran tebyg, mae meddwl am y boen a'r dioddefaint y byddai ef wedi ei ddioddef yn fy nychryn i'r byw. Pa bynnag brosesau Llywodraeth ac awdurdod lleol y byddwn ni'n eu rhoi ar waith, ni wnaiff hynny fyth â lleihau'r anfadwaith hwn na ffieidd-dra'r bobl a gyflawnodd hyn dros gyfnod maith o gam-drin, esgeulustod ac, yn wir, llofruddiaeth hefyd. Ac rwy'n falch o weld bod y lefel briodol o gyfiawnder wedi ei rhoi iddyn nhw a'u bod nhw, yn wir, yn cael eu cadw hyd y mynno Ei Mawrhydi—hyd y mynno Ei Fawrhydi, fe ddylwn i ddweud.

Gallwn ni i gyd gytuno bod yr hyn a ddigwyddodd i Logan Mwangi yn drasiedi, na ddylai fyth fod wedi digwydd ac yn rhywbeth y dylem ni geisio sicrhau na fydd fyth yn digwydd eto. Roedd modd atal marwolaeth Logan pe byddai methiannau'r cyngor wedi cael eu nodi ar gam cynharach a phe cymerwyd camau eraill wedyn. Mae'r adroddiad ar achos Logan yn dangos bod cyngor Pen-y-bont ar Ogwr yn rhoi'r bai ar COVID am rai o'i ddiffygion ei hun, ochr yn ochr â gweithwyr cymdeithasol yn methu â dilyn canllawiau'r Llywodraeth oherwydd nad oedden nhw'n ddigon eglur nac ymatebol i sicrhau diogelu priodol ar gyfer plant agored i niwed, yn ystod pandemig COVID. Felly, a yw'r Dirprwy Weinidog yn derbyn, pe byddai'r cyfarpar diogelu personol cywir wedi bod ar gael iddyn nhw, yna fe fyddai staff gofal cymdeithasol wedi gallu asesu Logan 24 awr yn unig cyn ei farwolaeth? Ac a yw'r Dirprwy Weinidog yn nodi'r diffyg arweinyddiaeth gan y gwasanaethau cymdeithasol ym Mhen-y-bont ar Ogwr i weld drwy'r celwyddau'r oedd y drwgweithredwr yn eu palu—mai COVID oedd y rheswm na ellid gweld Logan, i dynnu sylw oddi wrth sylwedd yr hyn a oedd yn digwydd mewn gwirionedd?

Fe wnaeth COVID effeithio ar bob gwasanaeth y mae Cyngor Pen-y-bont ar Ogwr a Llywodraeth Cymru yn ei ddarparu, ond mae'r methiant i uwchgyfeirio sefyllfa Logan, er gwaethaf y dystiolaeth sylweddol fod angen cefnogaeth arno, yn dangos bod prinder staff mewn adrannau yn profi'r pryderon fod y cyngor yn rhy ddibynnol ar weithwyr asiantaeth. Felly, a yw'r Dirprwy Weinidog yn cydnabod yr orddibyniaeth ar staff asiantaeth yng Nghyngor Pen-y-bont ar Ogwr, a pha drafodaethau a gawsoch chi, neu a fyddwch chi'n eu cael yn y dyfodol gyda'r awdurdod i recriwtio gweithwyr llawn amser i'r adran gwasanaethau cymdeithasol?

Ac, yn ogystal â hynny, mae'r diffyg rhannu gwybodaeth wedi tynnu sylw at ddiwylliant o reolaeth dra awdurdodol, a oedd yn golygu nad oedd staff iau yn gallu herio penderfyniadau a wnaed gan staff uwch, fel mewn llawer o broffesiynau, fel profodd yr achos hwn. Ni ddylai staff fyth deimlo'n ofnus ac fe ddylen nhw deimlo eu bod nhw'n rhan o dîm a phob un yn cydweithio yn y broses honno o wneud penderfyniadau. Ac yn ogystal â hynny, bod yn rhaid i Gyngor Pen-y-bont ar Ogwr ddysgu gwersi sylweddol o argymhelliad yr adroddiad, mae hi'n amlwg bod yn rhaid i Lywodraeth Cymru ddeddfu adolygiad ledled Cymru o wasanaethau plant i sicrhau na fydd hyn fyth yn digwydd eto. Mae angen arweinyddiaeth a Llywodraeth Cymru a'r Prif Weinidog sy'n gyfrifol am hynny, ac fe ddylen nhw sicrhau nad Cymru yw'r unig genedl ar ôl yn y DU heb adolygiad plant ledled y wlad.

Felly, a wnewch chi ailystyried eich penderfyniad chi i beidio â chynnal adolygiad ledled Cymru o wasanaethau plant, a rhoi gwarantau cadarn i bob plentyn, rhiant a gofalwr ar draws y 22 awdurdod fod y Llywodraeth hon yng Nghymru ar eu hochr nhw ac yn rhoi'r cyfle gorau i ni ddiogelu pob plentyn ledled Cymru, oherwydd mae'n anffodus bod Llywodraeth Cymru yn atal adolygiad o'r fath pan mai Cymru sydd â'r gyfradd uchaf yn y DU o blant yn derbyn gofal? Fe hoffwn i, yn olaf, annog y Llywodraeth i newid cyfeiriad cyn i ni beryglu trychineb arall eto fel un Logan Mwangi. Diolch i chi.

15:05

I thank Gareth very much for his comments and thank him for the sorrow that he has expressed for this tragedy, recognising that, ultimately, the responsibility is with those three people who are incarcerated. I think the issue of COVID is an important issue and, certainly, the review refers to COVID on a number of occasions. I think it did make it more difficult because, certainly, all of the case conferences were taking place virtually and, in terms of actually speaking to Logan, it did make for some difficulties—the fact that COVID was operating. But, I think there are clear guidelines about how you should operate, looking at child protection, so I don't think that we can say that COVID is entirely to blame for what happened.

But, COVID certainly took its toll on the workforce. We know that many people were off sick, so the strain on the workforce was worse than in normal times. But, again, there's no way that you can say that if something there had been different, this wouldn't have happened. There is an over-reliance on agency staff, and we are doing our utmost to attract more social workers. As you'll know, we have introduced the bursary in order to encourage social workers to join and to remain, trying to give it more of an alliance with the bursaries in the health service. We've also given support for social workers, because I think we do all recognise what a difficult job social work is. I was a social worker myself, so I certainly do know the huge strain that social workers are put under, and I think it's essential that we do all that we can to support them in such a difficult job.

Gareth referred to information sharing, which is an absolutely key issue, and also about junior staff being afraid to challenge, which was referred to in the report. I think this is one of the learnings that has to come out of the report; there were learning themes that came out of the report and we've got to make sure that there is a different culture within the organisations that are referred to.

In terms of the Wales-wide review of children's services, I've already said that I'm accepting all of the recommendations that are in the report. Certainly, they don't all apply to the Welsh Government, so I will have to accept them and work with the partner agencies to make sure that we move forward to implement those recommendations. I feel at this stage that it wouldn't help to actually address these issues if we were to go for a children's social services-wide review, because the one in England took 16 months; I anticipate the one that's going to happen in Northern Ireland will take 16 months. A lot of the things that came out in those reports are ones that are echoed in the work that we are doing and are echoed in this review.

So, the recommendations that we are taking on board are far-reaching, looking at how case conferences are chaired and many other very important recommendations. I think that that, along with the work and the reviews that we've already done, gives us a really good base to start working on this now. And I don't think that having a further review at this stage will actually help, so I think we need to start work now. Thank you.

Diolch yn fawr i Gareth am ei sylwadau a diolch iddo am fynegi ei dristwch am y drasiedi hon, gan gydnabod mai, yn y pen draw, y tri unigolyn hynny a garcharwyd sy'n gyfrifol. Rwy'n credu bod mater COVID yn fater pwysig ac, yn sicr, mae'r adolygiad yn cyfeirio at COVID ar sawl achlysur. Rwy'n credu ei fod wedi ei gwneud hi'n fwy anodd oherwydd, yn sicr, roedd pob un o'r cynadleddau achos yn rhai rhithwir ac, o ran siarad â Logan yn y cnawd, fe achosodd rai anawsterau—y ffaith bod cyfyngiadau COVID yn weithredol. Ond, rwy'n credu bod yna ganllawiau clir ynglŷn â sut y dylech chi weithredu, o ran amddiffyn plant, felly nid wyf o'r farn y gallwn ni ddweud mai ar COVID yr oedd y bai i gyd am yr hyn a ddigwyddodd.

Ond, yn sicr fe effeithiodd COVID yn sylweddol ar y gweithlu. Fe wyddom ni fod llawer wedi bod yn absennol oherwydd salwch, felly roedd y straen ar y gweithlu yn waeth nag arfer. Ond, eto, nid oes unrhyw ffordd y gallwch chi ddweud, pe byddai rhywbeth wedi bod yn wahanol, yna ni fyddai hyn wedi digwydd. Mae yna orddibyniaeth ar staff asiantaeth, ac rydym ni'n gwneud ein gorau glas i ddenu mwy o weithwyr cymdeithasol. Fel y gwyddoch chi, rydym ni wedi cyflwyno'r bwrsari i annog gweithwyr cymdeithasol i ymuno ac aros, gan geisio rhoi mwy o gysylltiad rhyngddo a'r bwrsariaethau yn y gwasanaeth iechyd. Rydym ni wedi rhoi cefnogaeth i weithwyr cymdeithasol hefyd, oherwydd rwy'n credu ein bod ni i gyd yn cydnabod pa mor anodd yw swyddi gwaith cymdeithasol. Roeddwn i'n weithiwr cymdeithasol fy hunan, felly yn sicr rwy'n gwybod am y straen enfawr sydd ar weithwyr cymdeithasol, ac rwy'n credu ei bod hi'n hanfodol ein bod ni'n gwneud popeth yn ein gallu i'w cefnogi nhw mewn swydd sydd mor anodd.

Roedd Gareth yn cyfeirio at rannu gwybodaeth, sef mater cwbl allweddol, a hefyd bod staff iau ag ofn herio, ac fe gyfeiriwyd at hynny yn yr adroddiad. Rwy'n credu mai dyma un o'r gwersi y mae'n rhaid ei dysgu o'r adroddiad; roedd yna themâu o ran dysgu yn codi o'r adroddiad ac mae'n rhaid i ni wneud yn siŵr bod y diwylliant yn newid yn y sefydliadau yr atgyfeirir atynt.

O ran adolygiad o wasanaethau plant ledled Cymru, rwyf i eisoes wedi dweud fy mod i'n derbyn yr holl argymhellion sydd yn yr adroddiad. Yn sicr, nid ydyn nhw i gyd yn berthnasol i Lywodraeth Cymru, felly fe fydd yn rhaid i mi eu derbyn a gweithio gyda'r asiantaethau partner i wneud yn siŵr ein bod ni'n symud ymlaen i weithredu'r argymhellion hynny. Rwy'n teimlo ar hyn o bryd na fyddai adolygiad o wasanaethau cymdeithasol i blant o gymorth i fynd i'r afael â'r materion hyn mewn gwirionedd, oherwydd cymerodd yr un yn Lloegr 16 mis; rwy'n rhagweld y bydd yr un sydd am ddigwydd yng Ngogledd Iwerddon yn cymryd 16 mis. Mae llawer o'r pethau a ddaeth i'r amlwg yn yr adroddiadau hynny yn rhai sy'n cael eu hadleisio yn y gwaith yr ydym ni'n ei wneud ac yn cael eu hadleisio yn yr adolygiad hwn.

Felly, mae'r argymhellion yr ydym ni'n eu derbyn yn rhai pellgyrhaeddol, sy'n ystyried sut mae cynadleddau achos yn cael eu cadeirio a llawer o argymhellion pwysig iawn eraill. Rwy'n credu bod hynny, ynghyd â'r gwaith a'r adolygiadau a wnaethom ni eisoes, yn rhoi sylfaen dda iawn i ni ddechrau gweithio ar hyn nawr. Ac nid wyf i o'r farn y byddai cael adolygiad pellach ar hyn o bryd o gymorth gwirioneddol, felly rwyf i o'r farn mai dechrau gweithio nawr sydd ei angen arnom ni. Diolch i chi.

15:10

I would just like to start, perhaps, by reflecting on Logan Mwangi's former headteacher's words about him, calling him 'a gorgeous little boy' with a 'cheeky smile' who 'loved to talk'. Often, we forget about Logan himself. We've all seen pictures of him, but to hear about his personality and how he was happy at school, contrary to what his mother was saying, was behaving in school and enjoying himself, and yet, his life was cut tragically short from those who should have been protecting him and loving him and caring for him—. I echo all the sentiments already expressed by the Deputy Minister and by Gareth Davies in terms of thinking of his father in particular, and his family and friends, wishing that they too would have been able to intervene, as many, many of those who came into contact with him, I'm sure, are reflecting on from reading the review.

I think the thing that struck me reading the review was the fact that a series of opportunities were missed to protect, and crucially that it was expressed that Logan's voice was not heard, that we weren't listening to this little boy, whereas we are trying to ensure here in Wales that absolutely the rights of the child—that every child is aware of those. Yet, here we are: a child whose voice wasn't heard.

So for me, I would like to get greater clarity today. I know that you have responded in terms of Gareth Davies's point in terms of an independent inquiry, but I don't understand why that independent inquiry isn't taking place. It doesn't stop you from being able to implement the recommendations if there are further reviews taking place. And, time and time again since I've been elected here, I've heard the First Minister say that we won't have an independent inquiry into COVID, and rejecting calls for an independent inquiry into the 2020 floods, though we do have a review in the co-operation agreement between both our parties. So, what are the circumstances when Welsh Government will actually instigate an independent inquiry, if not in cases like this? This is so that we look at the breadth of things, and that can take into account as well the steps that are already being taken, that have been learnt from other reviews.

But worrying for me was hearing the children's commissioner state that these recommendations we've seen before in previous reports. We've heard commitments previously saying that lessons will be learned and we'll have changes, and yet these recommendations are still coming through. I think we need to understand from an inquiry why that's the case. So, I would ask you, Deputy Minister, to reconsider, because it's not a political point; I'm not saying this, this is what experts are telling us, this is what social workers on the ground are telling us, this is what the NSPCC have been telling us. So, this is very much something that I think every one of us should be open to—scrutiny and independent inquiries—and I'm concerned, yet again, to hear the Deputy Minister state that this isn't something that the Welsh Government is going to be taking forward.

I would also like to mention NSPCC Wales's call for a clear and resourced road map to transform children's social care. They've asked in the briefing that they supplied to all of us for Welsh Government to commit to publishing a detailed, entirely resourced road map transforming children's social care, with measurable outcomes, within the next six months. Is this something that the Deputy Minister can commit to today?

I also wanted to reflect on the worrying aspect of the report where it referenced Logan's race and ethnicity in particular, mentioning his father Ben Mwangi's Kenyan heritage, and the part in the report that says,

'Professionals did not fully explore the context of…race and ethnicity'

in this case. Well, we know that, across Government, we are committed to working towards an anti-racist Wales, but yet again, in this case, it's not something that comes through strongly in the statement today either, but something that we truly need to consider and ensure that that is at the forefront of the minds of everyone who comes into contact with a child in circumstances such as this. So, in terms of Plaid Cymru's position, we do want to see an independent inquiry. We fully support the changes that are being implemented, but we are concerned, knowing, as has been raised by agencies with us, the concerns around the lack of a child poverty strategy here in Wales, knowing, with the cost-of-living crisis as well, that more families are going to be placed in difficult circumstances, with an increased risk of abuse and neglect for children. So, therefore, can I please ask that you do reconsider your position in terms of that independent inquiry, implement the recommendations, but please also progress on that independent inquiry? 

Fe hoffwn i ddechrau, efallai, trwy fyfyrio ar eiriau cyn-brifathro Logan Mwangi amdano, a oedd yn ei alw yn 'fachgen bach annwyl' gyda 'gwên ddireidus' a oedd 'wrth ei fodd yn siarad'. Yn aml, rydym ni'n anghofio am Logan ei hun. Rydym ni i gyd wedi gweld lluniau ohono, ond roedd clywed am ei bersonoliaeth a pha mor hapus yr oedd yn yr ysgol, yn wahanol iawn i'r hyn yr oedd ei fam yn ei ddweud, roedd yn ymddwyn yn yr ysgol ac yn mwynhau ei hun yno, ac eto, fe ddaeth ei fywyd i ben yn resynus o ifanc gan y rhai hynny a ddylai fod wedi bod yn ei warchod a'i garu ac yn gofalu amdano—. Rwy'n adleisio'r holl deimladau a fynegwyd eisoes gan y Dirprwy Weinidog a Gareth Davies o ran meddwl yn arbennig am ei dad, a'i deulu a'i ffrindiau, gan deimlo trueni nad oedden nhw wedi gallu ymyrryd ychwaith, fel llawer, llawer iawn o'r rhai a ddaeth i gysylltiad ag ef, rwy'n siŵr, yn ei deimlo hefyd o ddarllen yr adolygiad.

Rwy'n credu mai'r hyn a'm trawodd i wrth ddarllen yr adolygiad oedd y ffaith bod llawer o gyfleoedd wedi eu colli i'w amddiffyn, ac yn hollbwysig fe fynegwyd nad oedd llais Logan wedi cael ei glywed, nad oeddem ni wedi gwrando ar y bachgen bach hwn, er ein bod ni yng Nghymru yn ceisio sicrhau bod hawliau'r plentyn yn llwyr—bod pob plentyn yn ymwybodol o'r rhain. Ac eto, dyma ni: dyma blentyn na chlywyd ei lais.

Felly i mi, fe hoffwn i fod â mwy o eglurder heddiw. Rwy'n gwybod eich bod chi wedi ymateb o ran pwynt Gareth Davies o ran ymchwiliad annibynnol, ond nid wyf i'n deall pam nad yw'r ymchwiliad annibynnol hwnnw'n mynd rhagddo. Nid yw bodolaeth adolygiadau pellach cyfredol yn eich rhwystro chi rhag gallu rhoi'r argymhellion hyn ar waith. A thro ar ôl tro ers i mi gael fy ethol yma, rwyf i wedi clywed y Prif Weinidog yn dweud na fydd gennym ni ymchwiliad annibynnol i COVID, ac yn gwrthod galwadau am ymchwiliad annibynnol i lifogydd 2020, er bod adolygiad gennym ni yn y cytundeb cydweithredu rhwng ein dwy blaid. Felly beth allai'r amgylchiadau fod a fyddai'n gwneud i Lywodraeth Cymru sefydlu ymchwiliad annibynnol, os nad mewn achosion fel hyn? Mae hyn er mwyn edrych ar bethau yn eu llawnder, ac fe all hynny ystyried hefyd y camau a gymerwyd eisoes, a ddysgwyd o adolygiadau eraill.

Ond yr hyn sy'n fy mhoeni i oedd clywed y comisiynydd plant yn dweud ein bod ni wedi gweld yr argymhellion eisoes mewn adroddiadau blaenorol. Rydym ni wedi clywed ymrwymiadau o'r blaen yn dweud y bydd gwersi yn cael eu dysgu ac y bydd newidiadau, ac eto mae'r argymhellion hyn yn parhau i ddod i'r golwg. Rwy'n credu bod angen i ni ddeall o ymchwiliad pam allai hynny fod. Felly, rwyf i am ofyn i chi, Dirprwy Weinidog, ailystyried, oherwydd nid pwynt gwleidyddol mohono; nid y fi sy'n dweud hyn, dyma y mae arbenigwyr yn ei ddweud wrthym ni, dyma y mae gweithwyr cymdeithasol ar lawr gwlad yn ei ddweud wrthym ni, dyma y mae'r NSPCC wedi bod yn ei ddweud wrthym ni. Felly, mae hynny'n rhywbeth pwysig rwy'n credu y dylai pob un ohonom ni fod yn agored iddo—craffu ac ymchwiliadau annibynnol—ac rwy'n bryderus, unwaith eto, o glywed y Dirprwy Weinidog yn dweud nad yw hyn yn rhywbeth y bydd Llywodraeth Cymru yn ei ddatblygu.

Fe hoffwn i sôn hefyd am alwad NSPCC Cymru am fap ffordd eglur a llawn o ran adnoddau ar gyfer trawsnewid gofal cymdeithasol plant. Maen nhw wedi gofyn yn y briff a roddwyd ganddyn nhw i bob un ohonom ni i Lywodraeth Cymru ymrwymo i gyhoeddi map ffordd manwl, cwbl eglur o drawsnewid gofal cymdeithasol plant, gyda chanlyniadau mesuradwy, o fewn y chwe mis nesaf. A yw hyn yn rhywbeth y gall y Dirprwy Weinidog ymrwymo iddo heddiw?

Roeddwn i'n awyddus i ystyried hefyd un agwedd bryderus yn yr adroddiad lle'r oedd yn cyfeirio yn arbennig at hil ac ethnigrwydd Logan, gan sôn am dreftadaeth ei dad, Ben Mwangi, sy'n dod o Kenya, a'r rhan yn yr adroddiad sy'n dweud,

'Nid oedd gweithwyr proffesiynol wedi archwilio yn llawn gyd-destun...hil ac ethnigrwydd'

yn yr achos hwn. Wel, fe wyddom ni, ar draws y Llywodraeth, ein bod ni wedi ymrwymo i weithio tuag at Gymru wrth-hiliol, ond unwaith eto, yn yr achos hwn, nid yw hynny'n rhywbeth sy'n dod drwodd yn gryf yn natganiad heddiw ychwaith, ond mae'n rhywbeth y mae gwir angen i ni ei ystyried a sicrhau ei fod yn flaenaf ym meddyliau pawb sy'n dod i gysylltiad â phlentyn mewn amgylchiadau fel hyn. Felly, o ran safbwynt Plaid Cymru, rydym ni'n dymuno gweld ymchwiliad annibynnol. Rydym ni'n llwyr gefnogi'r newidiadau sy'n cael eu gweithredu, ond rydym ni'n pryderu, o wybod, fel roedd asiantaethau yn eu codi nhw gyda ni, y pryderon ynghylch diffyg strategaeth tlodi plant yma yng Nghymru, gan wybod, gyda'r argyfwng costau byw hefyd, y bydd mwy o deuluoedd yn eu cael eu hunain mewn amgylchiadau anodd, gyda pherygl mwy o gamdriniaeth ac esgeulustod i blant. Felly, a gaf i ofyn i chi ailystyried eich safbwynt o ran yr ymchwiliad annibynnol hwnnw, a gweithredu'r argymhellion, ond, os gwelwch yn dda, symudwch ymlaen hefyd o ran yr ymchwiliad annibynnol hwnnw? 

15:15

Thank you very much, Heledd, for that contribution, and thank you for starting by reminding us of the gorgeous little boy that has been lost, and I think it's very important that we do remember that, and also for mentioning what his headteacher said, because I think you'll all have noted that in the report there was praise given to the school, and the fact that the school made great efforts to keep in contact with him during COVID—visiting his home and sending work for him to do, and sending a teddy bear, one of the teddy bears that they use in schools to help children to talk about their feelings. And so I think it's very important that we remember that.

Yes, there were opportunities that were missed. I think that's quite clear. The report says that, those opportunities were missed, and their recommendations are addressing that. And Logan's voice was not heard, and I think the issue of race, the report says, and it's certainly a fact, that it wasn't explored what Logan felt to be living as the only child with his ethnicity in a family and in surroundings where everybody else was white. That certainly wasn't explored, and I think it's an important issue. 

We are transforming social care. As the Member will know, we have got some quite ambitious plans, and some of them are part of the co-operation agreement that we will work together on, and we are determined to do that. Some of them are planned by the end of this term, so certainly, in response to the NSPCC, I can respond that certain parts of our programme are planned to be during the next three and a half years, to finish by then. 

But going back to the inquiry into social services, I really don't feel that that is going to help much at this stage. I think we know what the difficulties are, and, of course, we've already had so many inquiries here in the Senedd. I can go through them—a whole list of inquiries that have been held. Just looking at these—the care crisis review by the Family Rights Group; Nuffield Foundation's 'Born into Care'; Public Law Wales's working group's report and recommendations. Endless things that have happened. I just think we've got to get on with these actions, and I think that's the most important thing for the Welsh Government to do. 

Diolch yn fawr iawn i chi, Heledd, am y cyfraniad yna, a diolch am gychwyn drwy ein hatgoffa ni o'r bachgen bach hyfryd a gollwyd, ac rwy'n credu ei bod hi'n bwysig iawn ein bod ni'n cofio hynny, ac am sôn hefyd am yr hyn a ddywedodd ei brifathro, achos rwy'n credu eich bod chi i gyd wedi nodi'r ganmoliaeth a roddwyd i'r ysgol yn yr adroddiad, a'r ffaith i'r ysgol wneud ymdrechion mawr i gadw mewn cysylltiad ag ef yn ystod COVID—ymweld â'i gartref ac anfon gwaith iddo ei wneud, ac anfon tedi, un o'r tedis y maen nhw'n eu defnyddio mewn ysgolion i helpu plant i siarad am eu teimladau. Ac felly rwy'n credu ei bod hi'n bwysig iawn ein bod ni'n cofio hynny.

Do, fe gollwyd cyfleoedd. Rwyf i o'r farn bod hynny'n gwbl eglur. Mae'r adroddiad yn dweud y collwyd y cyfleoedd hynny, ac mae eu hargymhellion nhw'n mynd i'r afael â hynny. Ac ni chafodd lais Logan ei glywed, ac rwy'n credu o ran hil, mae'r adroddiad yn dweud, ac mae honno'n sicr yn ffaith, na roddwyd digon o ystyriaeth i'r hyn yr oedd Logan yn ei deimlo wrth fod yn byw fel yr unig blentyn o'i ethnigrwydd mewn teulu ac mewn amgylchedd lle'r oedd pawb arall yn wyn. Ni chafodd hynny ei archwilio, yn sicr, ac rwyf i o'r farn bod hwnnw'n fater pwysig.

Rydym ni'n trawsnewid gofal cymdeithasol. Fel y bydd yr Aelod yn gwybod, mae gennym ni gynlluniau uchelgeisiol iawn, ac mae rhai ohonyn nhw'n rhan o'r cytundeb cydweithredu y byddwn ni'n cydweithio arnyn nhw, ac rydym ni'n benderfynol o wneud hynny. Rydym ni'n bwriadu gweithredu ar rai ohonyn nhw erbyn diwedd y tymor hwn, felly yn sicr, mewn ymateb i'r NSPCC, rwy'n gallu ymateb bod rhai rhannau o'n rhaglen ni wedi cael eu cynllunio i ddigwydd yn ystod y tair blynedd a hanner nesaf, i'w cwblhau erbyn hynny.

Ond gan droi yn ôl at yr ymchwiliad i'r gwasanaethau cymdeithasol, nid wyf i'n teimlo y byddai hynny o lawer o gymorth ar hyn o bryd, mewn gwirionedd. Rwyf i o'r farn ein bod ni'n gwybod beth yw'r trafferthion, ac, wrth gwrs, rydym ni wedi gweld llawer o ymchwiliadau yma eisoes yn y Senedd. Fe allaf i fynd drwyddyn nhw—rhestr gyfan o ymholiadau a gynhaliwyd. Dim ond edrych ar y rhain—yr adolygiad argyfwng gofal gan y Grŵp Hawliau Teulu; 'Ganed i ofal' Sefydliad Nuffield; Adroddiad ac argymhellion gweithgor Cyfraith Cyhoeddus Cymru. Pethau diddiwedd sydd wedi digwydd. Rwyf i o'r farn bod yn rhaid i ni fwrw ymlaen gyda'r camau hyn, ac rwy'n credu mai dyna'r peth pwysicaf y gall Llywodraeth Cymru ei wneud. 

Logan Mwangi should be alive and well today, and being brought up in a loving, caring family and community. Ben Mwangi and his family should be looking after him. The teaching community of Tondu Primary School should be wrapping around him, as they did, as they tried to. It's right that the perpetrators of Logan Mwangi's brutal murder are behind bars for a long time, but it's right as well that we welcome the rigour of this report, which has not held back from pulling any punches, from going in forensically to what needs to be done. Much as the murder was shocking and horrifying for everybody who's read about this, equally, as you go through the report, the detail of the multiple failed opportunities to intervene at the right moment—and it's not one individual or one agency; it's multiple opportunities—and, as others have said, we've seen these opportunities missed before as well in other circumstances over many years. 

There are a series of recommendations, Minister, both at a local level for all of the agencies involved and for the multi-agency approach at a local level, but also significant ones at a national level. And I do welcome your commitment, Minister, to actually take actions now, to go forward and make the improvements right now, at a national level. That includes specific guidance to child protection practitioners about their duty—their duty—to inform and include all persons with parental responsibility in child protection assessments and processes; that Welsh Government commissions a pan-Wales review of approaches to undertaking child protection conferences—it's one of the things that's pulled out of this report, the failure of those multi-agency conferences to identify and take the right action—an annual national awareness campaign to raise public awareness on how to report safeguarding concerns. Because many people in this community say, 'How did we miss this?' But also, 'If it were to happen again, how should we raise the alarm about this happening?' So, Minister, I want to ask you how you'll take forward those recommendations at a local and national level, how they will be monitored, how this will be fed back here into Welsh Government, but also into the Senedd, so that we can give assurances to people. We can never say, 'This will never happen again'. I'd like to say that, but we know we can't. But what I do want to tell people is: we'll do our damnedest to do everything to make sure that this does not happen again.

Fe ddylai Logan Mwangi fod yn fyw ac iach heddiw, ac yn cael ei fagu mewn teulu a chymuned gariadus, ofalgar. Fe ddylai Ben Mwangi a'i deulu fod yn gofalu amdano. Fe ddylai cymuned addysgu Ysgol Gynradd Tondu fod yn gafael amdano, fel gwnaethon nhw, fel roedden nhw'n ceisio ei wneud. Mae hi'n iawn fod llofruddion creulon Logan Mwangi yn y carchar am amser maith, ond mae hi'n iawn hefyd ein bod ni'n croesawu pa mor drylwyr yw'r adroddiad hwn, nad yw wedi dal yn ôl rhag mynegi barn onest, rhag mynd yn fforensig ar ôl pob manylyn y mae angen mynd ar ei ôl. Er cymaint braw ac arswyd y llofruddiaeth i bawb a ddarllenodd amdani, yn yr un modd, wrth i chi fynd trwy'r adroddiad, manylion y cyfleoedd lluosog aflwyddiannus i ymyrryd ar y foment gywir—ac nid un unigolyn nac un asiantaeth mo hyn; bu sawl cyfle—ac, fel mae eraill wedi dweud, rydym ni wedi gweld colli cyfleoedd fel hyn o'r blaen hefyd mewn amgylchiadau eraill dros lawer o flynyddoedd.

Mae yna gyfres o argymhellion, Gweinidog, ar lefel leol ar gyfer yr holl asiantaethau dan sylw ac ar gyfer y dull amlasiantaeth ar lefel leol, ond rhai sylweddol ar lefel genedlaethol hefyd. Ac rwy'n croesawu eich ymrwymiad chi, Gweinidog, i gymryd camau nawr mewn gwirionedd, i fwrw ymlaen â hi a gwneud y gwelliannau ar hyn o bryd, ar lefel genedlaethol. Mae hynny'n cynnwys canllawiau penodol i ymarferwyr amddiffyn plant o ran eu dyletswydd nhw—eu dyletswydd nhw—i hysbysu a chynnwys pob unigolyn sydd â chyfrifoldeb rhiant mewn asesiadau a phrosesau amddiffyn plant; bod Llywodraeth Cymru yn comisiynu adolygiad ledled Cymru o ddulliau o ymdrin â chynadleddau amddiffyn plant—dyma un o'r pethau sy'n cael ei dynnu allan o'r adroddiad hwn, sef methiant y cynadleddau amlasiantaeth hynny i nodi a chymryd y camau priodol—ymgyrch ymwybyddiaeth genedlaethol flynyddol i godi ymwybyddiaeth y cyhoedd ynglŷn â sut i roi gwybod am bryderon o ran diogelu. Oherwydd mae llawer o bobl yn y gymuned hon yn dweud, 'Sut y gwnaethom ni fethu â gweld hyn?' Ond hefyd, 'Pe byddai rhywbeth tebyg yn digwydd eto, sut ddylem ni roi gwybod?' Felly, Gweinidog, rwyf i eisiau gofyn i chi sut y byddwch chi'n symud ymlaen â'r argymhellion hynny ar lefel leol a chenedlaethol, sut y byddan nhw'n cael eu monitro, sut y bydd hyn yn cael ei fwydo yn ôl yma i Lywodraeth Cymru, ond i'r Senedd hefyd, er mwyn i ni allu rhoi sicrwydd i bobl. Ni allwn ni fyth â dweud, 'Ni fydd hyn yn digwydd byth eto'. Fe hoffwn i ddweud hynny, ond rydym ni'n gwybod na allwn ni. Ond yr hyn yr wyf i'n awyddus i'w ddweud wrth bobl yw: fe fyddwn ni'n gwneud ein gorau glas i wneud popeth er mwyn sicrhau nad yw hyn yn digwydd eto.

15:20

I thank Huw Irranca-Davies for that contribution and, of course, as the local Member, he has great knowledge and understanding of this family and community. And I can absolutely assure him that the five national recommendations—the Welsh Government will take forward those parts of the recommendations that refer to us, and we will take them forward swiftly but thoroughly. And we will work with our partners to ensure that they take forward the recommendations for them as well. I notice that he particularly, at the end, referred to a national awareness campaign, and I am very determined that we will do this. This is something we've actually done before; we did it during COVID in 2020, to raise awareness about how to report safeguarding concerns, and we used then the hashtag #MakeTheCallWales. So, I anticipate that we will do something like that on an annual basis, as the report requests, because, as he said, people need to know what they should do and how they would report them. Because we have heard, after the event, that people were worried, and so we need to make sure that people know how to report the things that they are concerned about.

And then the pan-Wales review of approaches to undertake in child protection conferences: again, the conducting of child protection conferences remains the statutory duty of the local authorities, under the Social Services and Well-being (Wales) Act 2014. But, of course, we do have a key responsibility, as the strategic lead, so I certainly see it as my role to ensure that that happens, that we will take that lead, from this Government. I won't go through them all in detail, because I know the Deputy Presiding Officer is nodding, but, obviously, this is something we have to return back to, and I commit to reporting back to the Senedd on how this develops.

Rwy'n diolch i Huw Irranca-Davies am y cyfraniad hwnnw ac, wrth gwrs, am mai ef yw'r Aelod lleol, mae ganddo ef wybodaeth a dealltwriaeth ragorol o ran y teulu a'r gymuned hon. Ac fe allaf ei lwyr sicrhau y bydd y pum argymhelliad cenedlaethol—y bydd Llywodraeth Cymru yn gweithredu'r rhannau hynny o'r argymhellion sy'n cyfeirio atom ni, ac fe fyddwn ni'n eu cyflwyno yn gyflym ond yn drylwyr. Ac fe fyddwn ni'n gweithio gyda'n partneriaid i sicrhau eu bod nhw'n bwrw ymlaen â'r argymhellion ar eu cyfer hwythau hefyd. Rwy'n sylwi ei fod ef, ar y diwedd, wedi cyfeirio yn arbennig at ymgyrch ymwybyddiaeth genedlaethol, ac rwy'n benderfynol iawn y byddwn ni'n gwneud hyn. Fe wnaethom ni hyn o'r blaen mewn gwirionedd; fe wnaethom ni hynny yn ystod COVID yn 2020, i godi ymwybyddiaeth o ran sut i roi gwybod am bryderon diogelu, ac fe wnaethom ni ddefnyddio'r hashnod #GalwaNawr bryd hynny. Felly, rwy'n rhagweld y byddwn ni'n gwneud rhywbeth fel hyn yn flynyddol, fel y mae'r adroddiad yn gofyn, oherwydd, fel ddywedodd ef, mae angen i bobl wybod beth y dylen nhw ei wneud a sut i wneud eu hadroddiadau. Oherwydd ein bod ni wedi clywed, ar ôl y digwyddiad, fod pobl yn bryderus, ac felly mae angen i ni wneud yn siŵr bod pobl yn gwybod sut i adrodd y pethau y maen nhw'n pryderu amdanyn nhw.

Ac yna'r adolygiad ledled Cymru o'r dulliau o weithredu ar gyfer cynnal cynadleddau amddiffyn plant: eto, mae cynnal cynadleddau diogelu plant yn parhau i fod yn ddyletswydd statudol i'r awdurdodau lleol, yn unol â Deddf Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol a Llesiant (Cymru) 2014. Ond, wrth gwrs, mae gennym ni gyfrifoldeb allweddol, fel arweinydd strategol, felly rwy'n sicr yn gweld hyn yn waith i mi sef sicrhau bod hynny'n digwydd, ein bod ni'n cymryd yr awenau hyn, yn y Llywodraeth hon. Ac nid wyf i am fynd drwyddyn nhw i gyd yn fanwl, oherwydd rwy'n gwybod bod y Dirprwy Lywydd yn nodio ei ben, ond, yn amlwg, mae hyn yn rhywbeth y mae'n rhaid i ni ddychwelyd ato, ac rwy'n ymrwymo i adrodd yn ôl i'r Senedd ar sut mae hyn yn datblygu.

Thank you, Deputy Minister. I know how committed you are to this field, but, last Thursday, Wales was in the national headlines for the wrong reasons, because we had failed a little boy. Logan Mwangi, as we've heard—and let's call him Logan Mwangi, because the report didn't; the report referred to him constantly as 'Child T'. Logan Mwangi moved from being a bubbly, smiley, laughing child who loved Spider-Man to one who developed a stammer. In the 11 months in which social services knew about him, he suffered four occasions where his life could have been saved, from August 2020 to the time where his arm was broken, bruises found all over him, sexual abuse, to the point where he died in July 2021. He was on the child protection register for two and a half months only, therefore I don't see that a review of child protection register processes are going to help us at all.

I know my time is up. I've a lot to say on this issue, as you can imagine, and it really does get me very emotional.

I've read lots of reviews like this; unfortunately, they come up with the same things, as you say. My questions to you are twofold. One is: if it's not time for a review of child protection services—. I'm a little bit different here. I don't want an inquiry; an inquiry sounds punitive and blaming—I want a review. I want us to know that as Senedd Members every single child has a chance of being protected, which Logan didn't. So, my first question to you is: if not now, when? Because I don't want to be standing here in 12, 16 months' time and hearing about another child death when we haven't done a review. So, that's my first question.

My second is: how can we as Senedd Members here know how well our local authorities are performing in child protection services? Because that is what we want to know the most. There has been no review in Wales of child protection services so far. You've read out lots of other reviews and inquiries, but none has focused on child protection services. I want to hear how our professionals in child protection services want to see a different way of working. That's why I want a review. So, please do respond to me with the answers to those two questions. If not a review now, when? And can we have a situation where Senedd Members know exactly that their local authorities are doing well, or not, and maybe need support, in child protection services? Thank you. Diolch yn fawr iawn.

Diolch i chi, Dirprwy Lywydd. Rwy'n gwybod pa mor ymrwymedig yr ydych chi i'r maes hwn, ond, ddydd Iau diwethaf, roedd Cymru yn y penawdau cenedlaethol am y rhesymau anghywir, oherwydd roedden ni wedi siomi bachgen bach. Logan Mwangi, fel clywsom ni—a gadewch i ni ei alw o'n Logan Mwangi, oherwydd ni wnaeth yr adroddiad hynny; roedd yr adroddiad yn cyfeirio ato fel 'Plentyn T' trwy'r amser. Newidiodd Logan Mwangi o fod yn blentyn byrlymus, siriol, doniol a oedd yn hoff o Spider-Man i fod yn un ag atal dweud arno. Yn yr 11 mis lle'r oedd gwasanaethau cymdeithasol yn gwybod amdano, bu pedwar achlysur lle gellid fod wedi achub ei fywyd, o fis Awst 2020 hyd yr amser y torrodd ei fraich, cafwyd ei fod yn gleisiau i gyd, a'i gam-drin yn rhywiol, hyd y dydd y bu farw ym mis Gorffennaf 2021. Roedd ef ar y gofrestr amddiffyn plant am ddim ond dau fis a hanner, felly nid wyf i'n gweld y byddai adolygiad o brosesau'r gofrestr amddiffyn plant o unrhyw gymorth i ni.

Fe wn fod fy amser ar ben. Mae gen i lawer i'w ddweud ynglŷn â'r mater hwn, fel gallwch chi ddychmygu, ac mae hyn yn fy ngwneud i'n emosiynol iawn.

Rwyf i wedi darllen llawer o adolygiadau fel hyn; yn anffodus, maen nhw'n codi'r un hen bethau, fel rydych chi'n dweud. Mae gen i ddau gwestiwn i chi. Un yw: os nad nawr yw'r amser i gynnal adolygiad o wasanaethau amddiffyn plant—. Rwyf i'n gwahaniaethu ychydig yn hyn o beth. Nid wyf i'n gofyn am ymchwiliad; mae ymchwiliad yn swnio fel rhywbeth ar gyfer cosbi a beio—fe hoffwn i adolygiad. Rwyf am i ni gael gwybod, fel Aelodau'r Senedd, fod gan bob plentyn gyfle i gael ei amddiffyn, ac ni chafodd Logan hynny. Felly, fy nghwestiwn cyntaf i chi yw: os nad nawr, pryd felly? Oherwydd nid wyf i'n dymuno sefyll yn y fan hon ymhen 12, 16 mis a chlywed am farwolaeth plentyn arall a ninnau heb gynnal adolygiad eto. Felly, dyna fy nghwestiwn cyntaf i.

Fy ail yw: sut allwn ni Aelodau'r Senedd hon wybod pa mor effeithiol y mae ein hawdurdodau lleol ni o ran eu gwasanaethau amddiffyn plant? Oherwydd dyna beth yr ydym ni'n fwyaf awyddus i'w wybod. Does dim adolygiad wedi bod o wasanaethau amddiffyn plant yng Nghymru hyd yn hyn. Rydych chi wedi darllen allan llawer o adolygiadau ac ymchwiliadau eraill, ond nid oes yr un wedi canolbwyntio ar wasanaethau amddiffyn plant. Fe hoffwn i gael clywed sut y mae ein gweithwyr proffesiynol yn y gwasanaethau amddiffyn plant yn dymuno gweld ffordd amgen o weithio. Dyna pam yr hoffwn i gael adolygiad. Felly, atebwch y ddau gwestiwn hyn i mi, os gwelwch chi'n dda. Os nad oes adolygiad i fod nawr, pryd felly? A allwn ni fod â'r sefyllfa lle mae Aelodau'r Senedd yn gwybod yn union pan fo eu hawdurdodau lleol yn gwneud yn dda, neu fel arall, ac efallai bod angen cymorth arnyn nhw, o ran gwasanaethau amddiffyn plant? Diolch i chi. Diolch yn fawr iawn.

15:25

Thank you, Jane, very much for that. I know you feel emotionally about it, and I know you have a great deal of commitment to this area of work, and I thank you for your comments. I really feel that we need to get on with the recommendations in this report. There are a lot of other things we're doing as well; we need to get on with all of them, and we need to ensure that children are safer than they are the moment. I think we have the basis to do that. I don't think we need another review in order to do that, and I'm totally committed to doing what I possibly can to carry out all the recommendations and to do what is necessary.

In terms of how are we to know that children are protected in our own individual areas, Care Inspectorate Wales, Healthcare Inspectorate Wales and Estyn will be reviewing four areas—I think I wrote this to you in a letter, if you remember—to see how they perform in child protection, and we will be looking at the results of that and seeing if we need to do that on a pan-Wales basis. I can assure you that we're going to do absolutely all we can to stop this tragedy that happened to Logan.

Diolch, Jane, yn fawr am hynny. Rwy'n gwybod eich bod chi'n teimlo yn emosiynol am y peth, ac rwy'n gwybod bod gennych chi lawer iawn o ymrwymiad i'r maes hwn o waith, a diolch i chi am eich sylwadau. Rwyf i wir o'r farn fod angen i ni fwrw ymlaen â'r argymhellion yn yr adroddiad hwn. Mae yna lawer o bethau eraill yr ydym ni'n eu gwneud hefyd; mae angen i ni fwrw ymlaen â phob un ohonyn nhw, ac mae angen i ni sicrhau bod plant yn fwy diogel nag y maen nhw ar y foment. Rwy'n credu bod y sail gennym ni i wneud hynny. Nid wyf i'n credu bod angen adolygiad arall arnom ni ar gyfer gwneud hynny, ac rwy'n gwbl ymroddedig i wneud yr hyn a allaf i gyflawni'r holl argymhellion a gwneud yr hyn sy'n angenrheidiol.

O ran sut yr ydym ni i gael gwybod a yw plant yn cael eu diogelu yn ein hardaloedd unigol ein hunain, fe fydd Arolygiaeth Gofal Cymru, Arolygiaeth Gofal Iechyd Cymru ac Estyn yn adolygu pedwar maes—rwy'n credu i mi ysgrifennu atoch chi mewn llythyr ynglŷn â hyn, os ydych chi'n cofio—ar gyfer gweld sut maen nhw'n perfformio wrth amddiffyn plant, ac fe fyddwn ni'n edrych ar ganlyniadau hynny i weld a oes angen i ni wneud hynny ym mhob cwr o Gymru. Fe allaf i eich sicrhau chi y byddwn ni'n gwneud popeth yn ein gallu i atal unrhyw drychineb fel yr un hwn a ddigwyddodd i Logan.

I found Thursday one of the most difficult days I've had as a Senedd Member. I sat and read every page of the report, and it made me incredibly sad, but it also made me quite angry, if I'm honest with you, reading about the failings and the lack of information sharing. We hear very often about a multi-agency approach—well, I think that multi-agency approach simply didn't work in this instance.

Colleagues have talked about the Wales-wide implications of this report. I wanted to focus perhaps a little bit more locally. In the years before coming to this Senedd, I sat as a member of the social services committee on Bridgend County Borough Council, and it doesn't fill me with any pleasure to tell you that, for a long time, members of that committee had raised concerns about the social services department in Bridgend County Borough Council—the reliance on agency staff in particular, the council's approach to budgeting, and a whole series of other concerns were mentioned as well. But the council felt they had a good reputation on social services, and I will not be one to judge today whether that was true or not. But I feel very strongly, Deputy Minister, that there was a culture of complacency at Bridgend County Borough Council in the way that social services were managed, and, in particular, a lack of political oversight from cabinet members on the work that was being done by hard-working dedicated officers and others in the council as well. So, I know, historically, where there have been councils with clear problems in terms of their social services departments, as has happened in Powys, that enhanced monitoring powers have been given through Care Inspectorate Wales. Can you let us know what you think the threshold would be for those to be applied in this case in Bridgend?

Fe deimlais i ddydd Iau diwethaf mai hwnnw oedd un o'r diwrnodau anoddaf a welais fel Aelod yn y Senedd hon. Fe eisteddais i lawr ac fe ddarllenais i bob tudalen o'r adroddiad, ac fe wnaeth hynny fi'n hynod o drist, ond yn fy nigio i'n fawr hefyd, i fod yn onest gyda chi, wrth ddarllen am y methiannau a'r diffygion o ran rhannu gwybodaeth. Rydym ni'n clywed yn aml iawn am ddull amlasiantaeth—wel, rwyf i o'r farn nad oedd y dull amlasiantaeth yn gweithio yn yr achos hwn mewn gwirionedd.

Mae cydweithwyr wedi sôn am y goblygiadau ledled Cymru yn sgil yr adroddiad hwn. Roeddwn i'n awyddus i ganolbwyntio ychydig yn fwy lleol, efallai. Yn y blynyddoedd cyn dod i'r Senedd hon, fe fûm i ar bwyllgor gwasanaethau cymdeithasol a oedd gan Gyngor Bwrdeistref Sirol Pen-y-bont ar Ogwr, ac nid pleser o gwbl i mi yw dweud wrthych chi heddiw, am gyfnod maith iawn, roedd aelodau'r pwyllgor hwnnw wedi bod yn codi pryderon am yr adran gwasanaethau cymdeithasol yng Nghyngor Bwrdeistref Sirol Pen-y-bont ar Ogwr—y ddibyniaeth ar staff asiantaeth yn benodol, dull y cyngor o gyllidebu, ac fe soniwyd am gyfres gyfan o bryderon eraill hefyd. Ond roedd y cyngor o'r farn bod ganddyn nhw enw da am wasanaethau cymdeithasol, ac nid fy lle i yw barnu heddiw a oedd hynny'n wir ai peidio. Ond rwy'n teimlo yn gryf iawn, Dirprwy Weinidog, fod yna ddiwylliant o laesu dwylo yng Nghyngor Bwrdeistref Sirol Pen-y-bont ar Ogwr yn y modd y cafodd gwasanaethau cymdeithasol eu rheoli ganddyn nhw, ac, yn benodol, roedd diffyg goruchwyliaeth wleidyddol gan aelodau'r cabinet dros y gwaith a oedd yn cael ei wneud gan swyddogion ymroddedig gweithgar ac eraill yn y cyngor hefyd. Felly fe wn i, yn hanesyddol, mewn achosion o gynghorau â phroblemau eglur o ran eu hadrannau gwasanaethau cymdeithasol, fel y digwyddodd ym Mhowys, fod pwerau gwell ar gyfer monitro wedi cael eu rhoi trwy Arolygiaeth Gofal Cymru. A wnewch chi roi gwybod i ni beth yw eich barn chi ynglŷn â'r trothwy ar gyfer gwneud felly yn yr achos hwn ym Mhen-y-bont ar Ogwr?

Thank you, Tom, for that question. As you know, Care Inspectorate Wales have been working in Bridgend council already and reported earlier this year. And they said that they had seen some improvements, but they were going to continue to monitor and will be reporting back to me, and that is what is happening at the moment. So, Care Inspectorate Wales are looking at Bridgend's practice, and will be reporting back to me.

Diolch i chi, Tom, am y cwestiwn hwnnw. Fel gwyddoch chi, mae Arolygiaeth Gofal Cymru wedi bod yn gweithio yng nghyngor Pen-y-bont ar Ogwr eisoes ac wedi adrodd yn gynharach eleni. Ac roedden nhw'n dweud eu bod nhw wedi gweld rhai gwelliannau, ond roedden nhw am barhau i fonitro ac fe fyddan nhw'n adrodd yn ôl i mi, a dyna sy'n digwydd ar hyn o bryd. Felly, mae Arolygiaeth Gofal Cymru yn edrych ar ymarfer Pen-y-bont ar Ogwr, ac fe fyddan nhw'n adrodd yn ôl i mi.

15:30

Diolch, Deputy Minister, and thank you for your statement this afternoon. It is absolutely heartbreaking to hear about Logan's death, and I echo all the sentiments that all other Members have said today, and say that we're thinking of Logan's father and all Logan's friends and teachers, and all those who loved him.

Deputy Minister, you've mentioned already around the national recommendations, and that you're keen to start work now, but I just want to ask you a little bit more perhaps about some of the timescales in which you intend to implement some of those. As we've already heard, the review highlighted that Logan's voice was not heard. How can you ensure that children and young people's voices are heard and listened to? I know that you will be very concerned about that. In our work here on the Children, Education and Young People's Committee, we've already seen the power of hearing these voices directly through the work that we're doing on care-experienced children and young people, as well as others. How can you help those young people's voices be strengthened and amplified, as part of any learning from the absolute tragedy of Logan's death?

Diolch, Dirprwy Weinidog, a diolch am eich datganiad chi'r prynhawn yma. Mae hi'n gwbl dorcalonnus clywed am farwolaeth Logan, ac rwy'n llwyr adleisio'r cyfan a fynegodd pob Aelod arall heddiw, ac yn dweud ein bod ni'n meddwl am dad Logan a ffrindiau ac athrawon Logan i gyd, a phawb a oedd yn ei garu.

Dirprwy Weinidog, rydych chi wedi sôn ynglŷn â'r argymhellion cenedlaethol, a'ch bod chi'n awyddus i ddechrau gweithio nawr, ond rwy'n dymuno gofyn ychydig mwy efallai am rai o'r amserlenni yr ydych chi'n bwriadu eu gweithredu. Fel clywsom ni'n barod, roedd yr adolygiad yn tynnu sylw at y diffyg a fu o ran gwrando ar lais Logan. Sut ydych chi am sicrhau bod lleisiau plant a phobl ifanc yn cael eu clywed a gwrando arnyn nhw? Rwy'n gwybod eich bod chi'n bryderus iawn ynglŷn â hynny. Yn ein gwaith ni yma ar y Pwyllgor Plant, Addysg a Phobl Ifanc, rydym ni eisoes wedi gweld pan mor bwerus yw clywed y lleisiau hyn yn uniongyrchol trwy'r gwaith yr ydym ni'n ei wneud ynglŷn â phant a phobl ifanc sydd â phrofiad o ofal, yn ogystal â rhai eraill. Sut allwch chi rymuso lleisiau'r bobl ifanc hynny ar gyfer eu cryfhau nhw a'u chwyddo nhw, yn rhan o unrhyw addysg yn sgil tristwch enbyd marwolaeth Logan?

I thank Jayne for those questions. I think it's important to respond as quickly as possible, and we are responding already because we've already had meetings with a number of the agencies involved. But it's also important to get it right. So, I'm not really able to give a detailed timescale at this time, because I think it's more important for us to get in with the agencies and work out the timetable from there.

The voice of the child is absolutely crucial, and I think it's absolutely true to say that Logan's voice was not heard. We are determined that the voice of the child should be heard as much as possible, and I'm sure she's aware of the work of the Welsh Government in promoting children's voices, and promoting children's voices to be heard, as she is doing on the committee, particularly through this report that you're doing at the moment.

We will make sure children's voices will be heard through our close working relationships, for example, with Voices from Care, as we work very closely with Voices from Care, and, in fact, have a summit next Saturday with Voices from Care, trying to hear the voices of those children who are care experienced, and also the information that is fed in from the children's commissioner and from Young Wales. So, there are many ways that we can work to ensure that children and young people's voices are heard. But she is right: Logan's voice wasn't heard.

Rwy'n diolch i Jayne am y cwestiynau yna. Rwyf i o'r farn ei bod hi'n bwysig ymateb mor gyflym â phosibl, ac rydym ni'n ymateb eisoes gan ein bod ni wedi cael cyfarfodydd yn barod gyda nifer o'r asiantaethau dan sylw. Ond mae hi'n bwysig i ni wneud pethau yn y ffordd iawn hefyd. Felly, ni allaf i mewn gwirionedd roi amserlen fanwl i chi ar hyn o bryd, gan fy mod i o'r farn ei bod hi'n bwysicach i ni fynd i drafodaeth gyda'r asiantaethau a dechrau gweithio ar yr amserlen o'r fan honno.

Mae llais y plentyn yn gwbl hanfodol, ac rwy'n credu bod hi'n gwbl wir i ddweud na chafodd llais Logan ei glywed. Rydym ni'n benderfynol y bydd llais y plentyn yn cael ei glywed i'r fath raddau sy'n bosibl, ac rwy'n siŵr ei bod hi'n ymwybodol o waith Llywodraeth Cymru yn hybu lleisiau plant, ac yn hybu gwrando ar leisiau plant, fel gwna hithau ar y pwyllgor, yn arbennig felly drwy'r adroddiad hwn yr ydych chi'n gweithio arno ar hyn o bryd.

Fe fyddwn ni'n sicrhau y bydd lleisiau plant yn cael eu clywed drwy ein perthynas waith glòs ni, er enghraifft, gyda Voices from Care, wrth i ni weithio yn agos iawn â Voices from Care, ac, mewn gwirionedd, fe gynhelir uwchgynhadledd ddydd Sadwrn nesaf gyda Voices from Care, yn ceisio clywed lleisiau'r plant hynny sydd â phrofiadau o ofal, a'r wybodaeth sy'n cael ei bwydo i mewn gan y comisiynydd plant a chan Gymru Ifanc hefyd. Felly, mae yna lawer o ffyrdd y gallwn ni weithio ynddyn nhw i sicrhau bod lleisiau plant a phobl ifanc yn cael eu clywed. Ond mae hi'n gywir: ni chlywyd llais Logan.

Thank you. I just wanted to make two points that I would like you to consider when you take forward how you're going to implement these recommendations. It isn't just the voice of the child that needs to be heard; it is the voice of the front-line social worker, and the empowerment of the front-line social worker that needs to happen, to ensure that they feel confident that they can insist on responding to their instincts that things are not right, particularly when children who are at risk are not in school. It must be essential and mandatory that the child is seen by somebody else at home, under all circumstances.

Which brings me to my second point, which is around looking at how you would feel if you were a front-line worker confronted with John Cole. You would not want to enter that house alone; you would be terrified. And, therefore, nobody should be asked to do that, and, therefore, they need to be accompanied, and that means the police. And that brings us to the second challenge, which is that not all these partner agencies are under the devolved responsibility of the Welsh Government, and that includes the police. So, I hope that you will give due consideration to how we can ensure that the police are present when social workers need to enter premises where the adults in that child's life are resisting allowing them in.

Diolch i chi. Roeddwn i'n dymuno gwneud dau bwynt yr hoffwn i chi eu hystyried wrth fwrw ymlaen o ran sut rydych chi am weithredu'r argymhellion hyn. Nid llais y plentyn yn unig y mae angen ei glywed; mae angen clywed llais y gweithiwr cymdeithasol rheng flaen, a rhoi mwy o allu i'r gweithiwr cymdeithasol rheng flaen, mae angen i hynny ddigwydd hefyd, i sicrhau eu bod nhw'n teimlo yn ddigon hyderus y gallan nhw fynnu bod ymateb i'w greddfau ynglŷn â diffyg uniondeb sefyllfa, yn enwedig felly pan nad yw plant sydd mewn perygl yn bresennol yn yr ysgol. Mae'n rhaid iddi hi fod yn ganolog ac yn orfodol i'r plentyn gael ei weld yn ei gartref gan rywun arall, ym mhob amgylchiad.

Ac mae hynny'n dod â mi at fy ail bwynt, sydd ynghylch ystyried sut fyddech chi'n teimlo pe byddech chi'n weithiwr rheng flaen a oedd wyneb yn wyneb â John Cole. Ni fyddech chi'n dymuno mynd i mewn trwy ddrws y tŷ hwnnw ar eich pen eich hun; fe fyddai hynny'n arswydus i chi. Ac, felly, ni ddylid gofyn i neb wneud hynny, ac, felly, mae angen i rywun arall fod gyda nhw, ac mae hynny'n golygu'r heddlu. Ac mae hynny'n dod a ni at yr ail her, sef nad yw'r holl asiantaethau partner yma dan gyfrifoldeb datganoledig Llywodraeth Cymru, ac mae hynny'n cynnwys yr heddlu. Felly, rwy'n gobeithio y byddwch yn rhoi'r ystyriaeth ddyledus i sut y gallwn ni sicrhau bod yr heddlu yn bresennol pan fo angen i weithwyr cymdeithasol fynd i mewn i safleoedd lle mae'r oedolion ym mywyd y plentyn hwnnw'n gwrthod eu gadael nhw i mewn trwy'r drws.

Thank you very much, Jenny, for those points, very important points, I think, about social workers feeling confident to be able to go into a house. We are developing, as I said in my opening remarks, a practice framework, so that all social workers will know what is expected at any particular incident, or at any particular thing that they are doing, there will be clear expectations of what happens at that time.

And obviously, in terms of the police, in the report, it was said that they responded to everything that they were asked—there was no criticism of the police at all in the report. But she makes the important point about the fact that policing is not devolved, and one of the recommendations is that we should look at the ways of reporting and data information, and the Welsh Government is being asked to lead that. Well, of course, policing is not devolved, so that means that we will have to liaise with the Home Office in order to look at that particular area. So, the fact that it's not devolved makes it much more complicated and more difficult to take forward. But, certainly, those two points I will be bearing in mind when we move forward.

Diolch yn fawr iawn, Jenny, am y pwyntiau hynny, pwyntiau pwysig iawn, rwy'n credu, am weithwyr cymdeithasol yn teimlo'n ddigon hyderus i allu cael mynediad i dŷ. Rydym ni'n datblygu fframwaith ymarfer, fel dywedais i yn fy sylwadau agoriadol, fel bydd pob gweithiwr cymdeithasol yn gwybod beth sy'n ddisgwyliedig mewn unrhyw ddigwyddiad neilltuol, neu ynglŷn ag unrhyw beth arbennig y maen nhw'n ei wneud, fe fydd yna ddisgwyliadau eglur o'r hyn sy'n digwydd bryd hynny.

Ac yn amlwg, o ran yr heddlu, yn yr adroddiad, fe ddywedwyd eu bod wedi ymateb i bopeth a ofynnwyd iddyn nhw—nid oedd yna feirniadaeth o gwbl o'r heddlu yn yr adroddiad. Ond mae hi'n gwneud y pwynt pwysig ynglŷn â'r ffaith nad yw plismona yn faes sydd wedi'i ddatganoli, ac un o'r argymhellion yw y dylen ni edrych ar y ffyrdd o adrodd a gwybodaeth data, ac mae gofyn i Lywodraeth Cymru arwain ar hynny. Wel, wrth gwrs, nid yw plismona wedi'i ddatganoli, felly mae hynny'n golygu y bydd yn rhaid i ni gysylltu â'r Swyddfa Gartref ar gyfer edrych ar y maes penodol hwnnw. Felly, mae'r ffaith na chafodd ei ddatganoli yn ei gwneud hi'n llawer mwy cymhleth ac yn fwy anodd i ni fwrw ymlaen. Ond, yn sicr, fe fydd y ddau bwynt hynny yn cael eu cadw mewn cof gennyf i pan fyddwn ni'n symud ymlaen.

15:35
4. Datganiad gan Ddirprwy Weinidog y Celfyddydau a Chwaraeon, a'r Prif Chwip: Coffáu Cyhoeddus yng Nghymru: Canllawiau i Gyrff Cyhoeddus
4. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Arts and Sport, and Chief Whip: Public Commemoration in Wales: Guidance for Public Bodies

Yr eitem nesaf yw'r datganiad gan Ddirprwy Weinidog y Celfyddydau a Chwaraeon ar goffáu cyhoeddus yng Nghymru: canllawiau i gyrff cyhoeddus. Galwaf ar y Dirprwy Weinidog, Dawn Bowden, i wneud y datganiad.

The next item is the statement by the Deputy Minister for Arts and Sport on public commemoration in Wales: guidance for public bodies. I call on the Deputy Minister, Dawn Bowden, to make the statement.

Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd. Mae coffáu cyhoeddus yn ganolog i'r ffordd rydym ni'n cynrychioli—

Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer. Public commemoration is central to the way in which we represent—

I was having the feedback in my ear then, sorry. I'll start again.

Roedd yna sŵn yn fy nghlust, mae'n ddrwg gen i. Fe wna i ddechrau eto.

Mae coffáu cyhoeddus yn ganolog i'r ffordd rydym ni'n cynrychioli ein hanes, yn hyrwyddo ein gwerthoedd ac yn dathlu ein cymunedau. Ond weithiau, gall fod yn bwnc dadleuol, ac fe fydd yn ddiddordeb cyhoeddus sylweddol bob amser. Heddiw, mae'n bleser gennyf gyhoeddi ein bod am gynnal ymgynghoriad cyhoeddus ar 'Coffáu cyhoeddus yng Nghymru: canllawiau i gyrff cyhoeddus'.

Public commemoration is central to the way in which we represent our history, promote our values and celebrate our communities. But it can sometimes be controversial, and will always be an issue of considerable public interest. Today, I am delighted to announce that we are going out to public consultation on 'Public commemoration in Wales: guidance for public bodies'.

This guidance is intended to help public bodies make good decisions that manage the risks of controversy, that take opportunities to create a more informed relationship with our history, and that genuinely celebrate the diversity of our communities. The guidance fulfils a commitment in the programme for government to address fully the recommendations of 'The Slave Trade and the British Empire: An Audit of Commemoration in Wales', which was first published in November 2020, and re-issued with amendments a year later. The guidance also directly supports one of the goals of the Welsh Government’s 'Anti-racist Wales Action Plan':

'To work with public bodies to fully recognise their responsibility...for setting the right historic narrative, promoting and delivering a balanced, authentic and decolonised account of the past'.

The action plan includes a specific action of

'appropriately addressing the way in which people and events with known historical associations to slavery and colonialism are commemorated'

in our public spaces and collections,

'acknowledging the harm done by their actions and reframing the presentation of their legacy to fully recognise this.'

The guidance also fulfils a recommendation in the report of the Senedd Culture, Welsh Language and Communications Committee, published in March 2021, 'Set in Stone? A report on who gets remembered in public spaces'. This recommended that Welsh Government should provide clear guidance that would present a route-map for decision making in relation to both historical and future acts of commemoration.

The audit of commemoration in Wales demonstrated very clearly the extent to which legacies of the slave trade and the British empire are still visible in our public places. The purpose of the guidance is to help public bodies deal with those legacies. The guidance also addresses the diversity of Welsh society, and the fact that many of its characteristics are barely visible in public commemorations. For example, very few people of black, Asian or minority ethnic heritage, and very few named women, have been publicly commemorated in Wales, and it would be difficult to find any representation of disabled and LGBTQ+ people. So, as we reflect on who is commemorated already, we should also reflect on who and what is missing, taking opportunities to address under-representation, and respond to changing values, as well as to deepen our understanding of historical issues and events.

The guidance sets out best practice for decision making and is not mandatory. Its focus is on how to make good decisions rather than on what decisions to make. It is in two parts. Part 1 introduces the issues around public commemoration and its impact, and part 2 sets out four steps that public bodies should take in order to address these issues and realise the contribution of public commemoration to the achievement of an anti-racist Wales. These four steps are: establishing a framework for inclusive decision making; setting clear objectives for public commemoration; establishing criteria for decision making; and, taking action to meet objectives and address the issues raised by public commemoration.

Taking all these steps will help public bodies to discharge their responsibilities under the specific action included in the 'Anti-racist Wales Action Plan'. It will also enable them to use public commemorations more generally to contribute to an anti-racist Wales, and to deepen understanding of our past and its legacies, and to celebrate the achievements of our diverse society.

The guidance is focused on permanent and deliberate commemoration in public places—that is, statues, sculptures, and plaques—and the names of streets and public buildings. There are many such commemorations in Wales, and past decisions about who or what to honour—decisions that were often taken by a small elite—remain highly visible in our public spaces. Many of them add character to our surroundings and, by offering a visible reminder of people and events in the past, they can prompt historical enquiry. But, as the audit of commemoration in Wales has shown, that enquiry can sometimes lead us to dark places in our past, especially where figures linked with the slave trade and colonial exploitation are literally put on a pedestal.

The commemorations that we have inherited don't necessarily reflect our values, but they may still be able to earn their place if we use them actively to learn about how earlier generations viewed the world, to reflect on the different way we view the world today, and to provoke thought rather than division. The recent re-interpretations of Thomas Picton, through information panels adjacent to the monument in Carmarthen and through the re-framing of his portrait in Amgueddfa Cymru, are intended to do just that.

And, just as we have inherited these legacies that tell us something about the values of the past, so we should consider bequeathing something to future generations that presents what we value as we strive to achieve a more equal Wales. We can do that through the way we treat existing commemorations, we can do it through who we choose to commemorate in future, but we must also do it through the way in which decisions about commemorations are made. The guidance assumes that decisions should be made locally, grounded in inclusive practices that encourage public bodies to listen and respond to the full diversity of our communities.

Development of the guidance itself was fully informed by a series of workshops attended by a broad spectrum of stakeholders with relevant lived experience. I'd like to thank the workshop attendees and all those who gave their time to contribute to the development of this guidance, including Gaynor Legall who led the original task and finish group and kindly commented on earlier drafts. The public consultation exercise that starts today gives another opportunity for different voices to be heard. Diolch yn fawr.

Bwriad y canllawiau hyn yw helpu cyrff cyhoeddus i wneud penderfyniadau da sy'n rheoli risgiau yn ymwneud â phynciau dadleuol, sy'n cymryd cyfleoedd i greu perthynas fwy gwybodus â'n hanes, ac sy'n wirioneddol dathlu amrywiaeth ein cymunedau. Mae'r canllawiau yn cyflawni ymrwymiad yn y rhaglen lywodraethu i fynd i'r afael yn llawn ag argymhellion 'Y Fasnach mewn Caethweision a'r Ymerodraeth Brydeinig: Archwiliad o Goffáu yng Nghymru', a gyhoeddwyd am y tro cyntaf ym mis Tachwedd 2020, ac a ailgyhoeddwyd gyda gwelliannau flwyddyn yn ddiweddarach. Mae'r canllawiau hefyd yn cefnogi un o nodau 'Cynllun Gweithredu  Cymru wrth-hiliol' Llywodraeth Cymru'n uniongyrchol:

'Gweithio gyda chyrff cyhoeddus i gydnabod eu cyfrifoldeb yn llawn... i osod y naratif hanesyddol cywir, gan hyrwyddo a chyflwyno cyfrif cytbwys, dilys a dadwladychol o'r gorffennol'.

Mae'r cynllun gweithredu'n cynnwys cam penodol sef,

'Mynd i'r afael yn briodol â'r ffordd y coffeir pobl a digwyddiadau gyda chysylltiadau hanesyddol hysbys i gaethwasiaeth a gwladychiaeth'

yn ein manau a'n casgliadau cyhoeddus,

'gan gydnabod y niwed a wnaed gan eu gweithredoedd ac ail-fframio'r modd y cyflwynir eu gwaddol i gydnabod hyn yn llawn.'

Mae'r canllawiau hefyd yn cyflawni argymhelliad yn adroddiad Pwyllgor Diwylliant, y Gymraeg a Chyfathrebu'r Senedd, a gyhoeddwyd ym mis Mawrth 2021, 'Ar gof a chadw. Adroddiad ar bwy sy'n cael eu coffáu mewn mannau cyhoeddus'. Argymhellodd hyn y dylai Llywodraeth Cymru ddarparu canllawiau clir a fyddai'n cyflwyno canllaw ar gyfer gwneud penderfyniadau mewn cysylltiad â gweithredoedd hanesyddol a choffáu yn y dyfodol.

Dangosodd yr archwiliad o goffáu yng Nghymru yn glir iawn i ba raddau y mae gwaddol y fasnach gaethwasiaeth a'r ymerodraeth Brydeinig i'w weld o hyd yn ein mannau cyhoeddus. Pwrpas y canllawiau yw helpu cyrff cyhoeddus i ymdrin â'r gwaddol hwnnw. Mae'r canllawiau hefyd yn mynd i'r afael ag amrywiaeth y gymdeithas Gymreig, a'r ffaith nad yw llawer o'i nodweddion i'w gweld bron mewn cofadeiliau cyhoeddus. Er enghraifft, ychydig iawn o bobl o dreftadaeth ddu, Asiaidd neu leiafrifoedd ethnig, ac ychydig iawn o fenywod penodol, sydd wedi cael eu coffáu'n gyhoeddus yng Nghymru, ac fe fyddai'n anodd dod o hyd i unrhyw gynrychiolaeth o bobl anabl a LHDTQ+. Felly, wrth i ni fyfyrio ar bwy sy'n cael ei goffáu'n barod, dylem ni hefyd fyfyrio ar bwy a beth sydd ar goll, cymryd cyfleoedd i fynd i'r afael â thangynrychiolaeth, ac ymateb i werthoedd sy'n newid, yn ogystal â dyfnhau ein dealltwriaeth o faterion a digwyddiadau hanesyddol.

Mae'r canllawiau'n nodi'r arfer gorau ar gyfer gwneud penderfyniadau ac nid yw'n orfodol. Mae eu pwyslais ar sut i wneud penderfyniadau da yn hytrach nag ar ba benderfyniadau i'w gwneud. Mae mewn dwy ran. Mae Rhan 1 yn cyflwyno'r materion sy'n gysylltiedig â choffáu cyhoeddus a'i effaith, ac mae Rhan 2 yn nodi pedwar cam y dylai cyrff cyhoeddus eu cymryd er mwyn mynd i'r afael â'r materion hyn a gwireddu cyfraniad coffáu'r cyhoedd i gyflawni Cymru wrth-hiliol. Y pedwar cam hyn yw: sefydlu fframwaith ar gyfer gwneud penderfyniadau cynhwysol; gosod amcanion clir ar gyfer coffáu cyhoeddus; sefydlu meini prawf ar gyfer gwneud penderfyniadau; a, gweithredu i gyflawni amcanion a mynd i'r afael â'r materion a godwyd gan goffáu cyhoeddus.

Bydd cymryd yr holl gamau hyn yn helpu cyrff cyhoeddus i gyflawni eu cyfrifoldebau o dan y camau penodol sydd wedi'u cynnwys yn y 'Cynllun Gweithredu Cymru wrth-hiliol'. Bydd hefyd yn eu galluogi i ddefnyddio coffáu cyhoeddus yn fwy cyffredinol i gyfrannu at Gymru wrth-hiliol, ac i ddyfnhau dealltwriaeth o'n gorffennol a gwaddol hynny, ac i ddathlu cyflawniadau ein cymdeithas amrywiol.

Mae'r canllawiau'n canolbwyntio ar goffáu parhaol a bwriadol mewn mannau cyhoeddus—hynny yw, cerfluniau, delwau, a phlaciau—ac enwau strydoedd ac adeiladau cyhoeddus. Mae llawer o goffáu o'r fath yng Nghymru, a phenderfyniadau'r gorffennol ynglŷn â phwy neu beth i'w anrhydeddu—penderfyniadau a oedd yn aml yn cael eu gwneud gan elît bach—yn parhau i fod yn weladwy iawn yn ein mannau cyhoeddus. Mae llawer ohonyn nhw yn ychwanegu cymeriad at ein hamgylchfyd a, drwy gynnig atgof gweladwy o bobl a digwyddiadau yn y gorffennol, gallan nhw ysgogi ymholiad hanesyddol. Ond, fel y dangosodd yr archwiliad o goffáu yng Nghymru, gall yr ymholiad hwnnw weithiau ein harwain at lefydd tywyll yn ein gorffennol, yn enwedig pan fo ffigyrau sy'n gysylltiedig â'r fasnach gaethweision ac ecsbloetio trefedigaethol yn llythrennol yn cael eu rhoi ar bedestal.

Nid yw'r coffáu yr ydym wedi ei etifeddu o reidrwydd yn adlewyrchu ein gwerthoedd, ond efallai y byddant yn dal i allu ennill eu lle os ydym yn eu defnyddio'n weithredol i ddysgu am sut yr oedd cenedlaethau'r gorffennol yn edrych ar y byd, i fyfyrio ar y ffordd wahanol yr ydym yn gweld y byd heddiw, ac i ennyn myfyrio yn hytrach nag ymraniadau. Bwriad yr ail-ddehongli diweddar ar Thomas Picton, trwy baneli gwybodaeth gerllaw'r heneb yng Nghaerfyrddin a thrwy ail-fframio ei bortread yn Amgueddfa Cymru, yw gwneud yr union beth hynny.

Ac, yn union fel yr ydym ni wedi etifeddu'r gwaddol hwn sy'n dweud rhywbeth wrthym ni am werthoedd y gorffennol, felly dylem ystyried gadael rhywbeth i genedlaethau'r dyfodol sy'n cyflwyno'r hyn yr ydym yn ei werthfawrogi wrth i ni ymdrechu i sicrhau Cymru fwy cyfartal. Gallwn wneud hynny drwy'r ffordd yr ydym yn trin coffáu presennol, gallwn ei wneud drwy bwy yr ydym ni'n dewis ei goffáu yn y dyfodol, ond mae'n rhaid i ni hefyd ei wneud drwy'r ffordd y gwneir penderfyniadau am goffáu. Mae'r canllawiau yn tybio y dylid gwneud penderfyniadau yn lleol, wedi'u seilio mewn arferion cynhwysol sy'n annog cyrff cyhoeddus i wrando ac ymateb i amrywiaeth lawn ein cymunedau.

Cafodd datblygiad y canllawiau ei hun ei lywio'n llawn gan gyfres o weithdai a fynychwyd gan sbectrwm eang o randdeiliaid gyda phrofiad bywyd perthnasol. Hoffwn ddiolch i'r rhai ddaeth i'r gweithdy ac i bawb a roddodd o'u hamser i gyfrannu at ddatblygu'r canllawiau hyn, gan gynnwys Gaynor Legall a arweiniodd y grŵp gorchwyl a gorffen gwreiddiol ac a wnaeth sylwadau caredig ar ddrafftiau cynharach. Mae'r ymarfer ymgynghori cyhoeddus sy'n dechrau heddiw yn rhoi cyfle arall i leisiau gwahanol gael eu clywed. Diolch yn fawr.

15:40

Can I thank the Deputy Minister for the statement?

A gaf i ddiolch i'r Dirprwy Weinidog am y datganiad?

Allaf i ddweud hefyd, roedd yn braf eich clywed chi'n siarad Cymraeg ar y dechrau hefyd? Roedd yn neis iawn i'w glywed.

Can I also say that it was wonderful to hear you speaking Welsh at the start? It was very nice to hear.

The guidance that was released earlier today is to be welcomed, where I'm sure the Deputy Minister sought to provide clarity for public bodies, such as local authorities, to understand better the issues of public commemorations. Can I also associate myself with your remarks in particular about who is missing, because I think that is an entirely valid and fair point? I think non-white people publicly commemorated in Wales, women and people who have had disabilities, are very, very difficult to find. So, I totally agree with your sentiment there as well.

First of all, though, I'd like to reiterate that all these decisions are taken in the round, and to make sure that there is not a one-size-fits-all attitude to installing or even removing existing commemorations. This brings me on to the point of what may be termed 'problematic individuals' in the guidance. In other words, monuments to people whose actions have today caused controversy. Obviously, that's an issue that arouses strong passions on all sides. Instead of removing or destroying monuments and artwork of people who would perhaps now be seen by some as having a negative background, this could be seen instead, as you mentioned, as an opportunity to add an additional piece of context to educate the public about the full background of the person involved, giving both the problematic details and the reasons why they are commemorated as well.

Of course, a balanced view of the history of these people will add to public knowledge and our own historical understanding too. However, that should never take the form of cultural vandalism or tearing down or destroying of historical memory. It's often been said that those who forget the past are the ones doomed to repeat it. In events like the toppling the statue of Edward Colston in Bristol and the boarding up of the statue of Thomas Picton, we can see that turning historical monuments into a reference point for US-style identity politics is a road that only leads to division. What we need to make sure is that these decisions are all taken at a local level with clear guidance, as I hope we've seen the pathway towards today, to make sure that it is not just one specific group or viewpoint that feeds into the decision makers at the expense and sacrifice of others. Therefore, what considerations have you given, Deputy Minister, to this, and how do you intend on ensuring that all views are heard when it comes to future commemorations?

I also wanted just to touch, briefly, on the tragic passing of Her late Majesty. During the period of mourning, we've seen a variety of moving monuments and memorials being laid to pay tribute to our longest serving monarch, and that's often been done collaboratively between local residents and councils. As the faces of our new King gradually begins to appear on our currency, I think it's important that we make sure that there are permanent, lasting dedications as well to our late Queen. As is rightly pointed out in the guidance that was issued today, public commemorations are created for a range of purposes and done with honourable intentions. So, we need to make sure that we don't look at everything in the past through a twenty-first century lens, but with the ideas and thoughts of today, so that we can educate the next generations on our history, and not try to rewrite it.

I am concerned, though, in the guidance, about the wording surrounding military figures, where it's also suggested that they too are seen as problematic, as some may remember 'the casualties of their campaigns'. These are people who, on the whole, have served on behalf of our country and did so with honour and merit. They don't deserve a potential opening of this can of worms by guidance, not clearly stated, that those who served our country to defend our freedoms that we cherish so dearly today could, potentially, find themselves disgraced or vilified just for following orders that were set for them at the time to defend our freedoms and serve our country.

In the 'principles and practice' part of the guidance, while it's noted and accepted that inclusive decision making hears and acts upon the experience of diverse communities, again, I'd like to reiterate the point that we don't have the same people time and again making the same decisions on every plaque, every monument, and every commemoration. A breadth of diversity, voices and perspective is crucial in decision making too. And I accept the fact that engagement is going to be vital through all these processes. As an example of this, in the planning process that is being deployed by local councils, these processes could have the opportunity to enrich communities, social cohesion and interested views by bring all viewpoints together with a shared objective of ensuring their community is heard through education and information. I've no doubt that there will be strong views on all sides, regardless of what type of commemorations that are put forward in the future, but we need to ensure that we don't sacrifice the views of one community in favour of another, which could in turn cause further divisions within those communities. Therefore, my final question would be: given the finely balanced approach needed to ensure no community is left behind, what further engagement work could you be doing, Minister, with stakeholders to provide an opportunity for all communities to involve themselves in this process? Thank you.

Mae'r canllawiau a gafodd eu rhyddhau yn gynharach heddiw i'w croesawu, pryd rwy'n siŵr bod y Dirprwy Weinidog wedi ceisio rhoi eglurder i gyrff cyhoeddus, fel awdurdodau lleol, ddeall yn well faterion coffáu cyhoeddus. A gaf i hefyd ategu'r sylwadau yn arbennig am bwy sydd ar goll, oherwydd rwy'n credu bod hynny'n bwynt cwbl ddilys a theg? Rwy'n credu ei bod yn anodd iawn, iawn dod o hyd i bobl nad ydyn nhw'n wyn, menywod a phobl ag anableddau, sy'n cael eu coffáu'n gyhoeddus yng Nghymru. Felly, cytunaf yn llwyr â'ch teimlad ynghylch hynny hefyd.

Ond yn gyntaf oll, hoffwn ailadrodd bod yr holl benderfyniadau hyn yn cael eu gwneud mewn modd cynhwysfawr, ac i wneud yn siŵr nad oes un agwedd gyffredinol at osod neu hyd yn oed gael gwared ar gerfluniau presennol. Daw hyn â fi at fyrdwn yr hyn a allai gael ei alw'n 'unigolion problematig' yn y canllawiau. Mewn geiriau eraill, henebion pobl y mae eu gweithredoedd wedi achosi dadlau heddiw. Yn amlwg, mae hynny'n fater sy'n ennyn teimladau cryfion ar bob ochr. Yn hytrach na gwaredu neu ddinistrio henebion a gwaith celf pobl a fyddai efallai'n cael eu gweld bellach gan rai fel rhai â chefndir negyddol, gellid gweld hyn yn hytrach, fel y sonioch chi, fel cyfle i ychwanegu darn ychwanegol o gyd-destun i addysgu'r cyhoedd am gefndir llawn y person dan sylw, gan roi'r manylion problematig a'r rhesymau pam eu bod yn cael eu coffáu hefyd.

Wrth gwrs, bydd golwg gytbwys ar hanes y bobl hyn yn ychwanegu at wybodaeth y cyhoedd a'n dealltwriaeth hanesyddol ein hunain hefyd. Fodd bynnag, ni ddylai hynny fyth gymryd ffurf fandaliaeth ddiwylliannol na rhwygo na dinistrio cof hanesyddol. Dywedwyd yn aml mai'r rhai sy'n anghofio'r gorffennol yw'r rhai a wnaiff ei ailadrodd. Mewn digwyddiadau fel dymchwel y cerflun o Edward Colston ym Mryste a'r gwaith o orchuddio'r cerflun o Thomas Picton, gallwn weld bod troi henebion hanesyddol yn bwynt cyfeirio ar gyfer gwleidyddiaeth hunaniaeth ar ffurf yr Unol Daleithiau yn ffordd sydd dim ond yn arwain at rannu. Yr hyn sydd angen i ni ei wneud yn siŵr yw bod y penderfyniadau hyn i gyd yn cael eu gwneud yn lleol gyda chanllawiau clir, gan fy mod yn gobeithio ein bod wedi gweld y llwybr tuag at heddiw, i wneud yn siŵr nad un grŵp neu safbwynt penodol yn unig sy'n dylanwadu ar y rhai sy'n gwneud y penderfyniadau ar draul ac aberth eraill. Felly, pa ystyriaethau ydych chi wedi eu rhoi, Dirprwy Weinidog, i hyn, a sut ydych chi'n bwriadu sicrhau bod pob barn yn cael ei chlywed pan ddaw hi at goffáu yn y dyfodol?

Roeddwn i hefyd eisiau crybwyll, yn fyr, farwolaeth drasig Ei diweddar Fawrhydi. Yn ystod y cyfnod o alaru, rydym wedi gweld amrywiaeth o henebion a chofebion symudol yn cael eu gosod i dalu teyrnged i'n brenhines sydd wedi gwasanaethu hiraf, ac mae hynny'n aml wedi cael ei wneud ar y cyd rhwng trigolion a chynghorau lleol. Wrth i wyneb ein Brenin newydd ddechrau ymddangos ar ein harian yn raddol, rwy'n credu ei bod hi'n bwysig ein bod yn gwneud yn siŵr bod yna ymroddiad parhaol, parhaus hefyd i'n diweddar Frenhines. Fel y nodir yn gywir yn y canllawiau a gyhoeddwyd heddiw, mae coffáu cyhoeddus yn cael ei greu at ystod o ddibenion a chyda bwriadau anrhydeddus. Felly, mae angen i ni wneud yn siŵr nad ydyn ni'n edrych ar bopeth yn y gorffennol drwy sbectol yr unfed ganrif ar hugain, ond gyda syniadau a meddyliau heddiw, fel y gallwn ni addysgu'r cenedlaethau nesaf ar ein hanes, a pheidio ceisio ei ailysgrifennu.

Er hynny, rwy'n bryderus, yn y canllawiau, am y geiriad sy'n ymwneud â ffigyrau milwrol, pryd y mae hefyd yn awgrymu eu bod hwythau hefyd yn cael eu hystyried yn broblematig, gan y gallai rhai gofio 'dioddefwyr eu hymgyrchoedd'. Mae'r rhain yn bobl sydd, ar y cyfan, wedi gwasanaethu ar ran ein gwlad ac wedi gwneud hynny gydag anrhydedd a theilyngdod. Nid ydyn nhw'n haeddu wynebu'r cyhuddiadau cymhleth hyn oherwydd canllawiau, nad ydyn nhw'n datgan yn glir, y gallai'r rhai a wasanaethodd ein gwlad i amddiffyn ein rhyddid yr ydym yn ei drysori mor annwyl heddiw, o bosibl, ganfod eu hunain yn cael eu dilorni neu eu gwarthruddo dim ond am ddilyn gorchmynion a roddwyd iddyn nhw ar y pryd i amddiffyn ein rhyddid a gwasanaethu ein gwlad.

Yn y rhan 'egwyddorion ac ymarfer' o'r canllawiau, er ei fod wedi'i nodi a'i dderbyn bod penderfyniadau cynhwysol yn gwrando ac yn gweithredu ar brofiad cymunedau amrywiol, eto, hoffwn ailadrodd y pwynt nad oes gennym yr un bobl dro ar ôl tro yn gwneud yr un penderfyniadau ar bob plac, pob heneb, a phob coffâd. Mae ehangder o amrywiaeth, lleisiau a phersbectif yn hanfodol wrth wneud penderfyniadau hefyd. Ac rwy'n derbyn y ffaith bod ymgysylltu yn mynd i fod yn hanfodol drwy'r holl brosesau hyn. Fel enghraifft o hyn, yn y broses gynllunio sy'n cael ei defnyddio gan gynghorau lleol, gallai'r prosesau hyn gael y cyfle i gyfoethogi cymunedau, cydlyniant cymdeithasol a safbwyntiau sydd â diddordeb drwy ddod â'r holl safbwyntiau ynghyd ag amcan a rennir o sicrhau bod eu cymuned yn cael ei chlywed drwy addysg a gwybodaeth. Does gennyf ddim amheuaeth y bydd barn gref ar bob ochr, ni waeth pa fath o goffáu a gyflwynir yn y dyfodol, ond mae angen i ni sicrhau nad ydym yn aberthu barn un gymuned o blaid un arall, a allai yn ei dro achosi rhaniadau pellach o fewn y cymunedau hynny. Felly, fy nghwestiwn olaf fyddai: o ystyried y dull cytbwys gofalus sydd ei angen i sicrhau nad oes unrhyw gymuned yn cael ei hepgor, pa waith ymgysylltu pellach y gallech chi fod yn ei wneud, Gweinidog, gyda rhanddeiliaid i roi cyfle i bob cymuned gyfranogi yn y broses hon? Diolch.

15:45

Can I thank Tom Giffard for those largely supportive comments and some of the very constructive suggestions that he made? To try and take your points in order, Tom, it is our intention that all decisions made on how we commemorate, both in terms of future and existing public commemorations, are made by local people and that there is as wide a possible involvement in that as we possibly can. Part of the process for the consultation around the guidance is that it is giving yet another opportunity for the widest breadth of the population to get involved and to say what they think about that.

On the process that we employed to draft the guidance, we had a number of bodies and stakeholders involved, headed by Marian Gwyn from Race Council Cymru, and a series of workshops were held where people from all different groups and backgrounds were able to come along and have their say. And, as I say, the person who led the original audit, Gaynor Legall, has also had the opportunity to comment on them. I hope that the consultation process will expand on that, but this is where we've started.

I think what is important in all of this—. You talked about how we shouldn't go down the road of cultural vandalism, and you talked about Colston and Picton, and I'll come back to Picton in a moment. In both those circumstances, there have been—. The city of Bristol, for instance, has actually set up—. I'm trying to think what the name of the organisation is now. They've set up the We Are Bristol History Commission, which is where they're helping the community to address the complex and contested heritage. There's something very similar going on in Liverpool as well, with their contested history.

I don't think this is about cultural vandalism in the sense of destroying monuments; it is about how we interpret them. If we talk about Picton, for instance, I said I wanted to come back to him, because you made the point about the military and, of course, Picton was a military general. But Picton was also responsible for torturing a 14-year-old girl. So, what we say is that in recognising his place in our history and what he did as a general, fighting for his country under the orders that he was given, he also did some terrible things, involved in the slave trade, which also involved torturing a young slave girl. That needs to be told as well, and that needs to be contextualised in terms of balancing the history that you are talking about. 

I think we are on the same page. I think that what we are saying is that we understand that when these monuments were originally erected we looked at it in a different way. We are now looking at it through a different lens. I just think about the conversation I had with the manager of the Cyfarthfa museum in my constituency, when I stood on the steps of Cyfarthfa castle and we were underneath Crawshay's bedroom. We looked out across Merthyr and the manager said to me, 'This is where Crawshay stood every morning and surveyed everything he owned across Merthyr Tydfil.' But of course, we can't look at that through twenty-first century eyes, because in the time of the Crawshays, and certainly the early Crawshays, relatively speaking those workers were well paid and were well looked after. So, we have to set that in the context of that era, as opposed to the twenty-first century. But it is about absolutely balancing the context of the history of anybody that we're going to seek to commemorate.

A gaf i ddiolch i Tom Giffard am y sylwadau cefnogol yna i raddau helaeth a rhai o'r awgrymiadau adeiladol iawn a wnaeth? Er mwyn ceisio ymdrin â'ch sylwadau yn eu trefn, Tom, ein bwriad yw bod pob penderfyniad a wnaed ar sut rydym yn coffáu, o ran coffáu cyhoeddus yn y presennol a'r dyfodol, yn cael ei wneud gan bobl leol a bod cyfraniad mor eang â phosibl yn hynny. Rhan o'r broses ar gyfer yr ymgynghoriad ynghylch y canllawiau yw ei fod yn rhoi cyfle arall eto i amrywiaeth ehangaf y boblogaeth gymryd rhan ac i ddweud beth maen nhw'n ei feddwl am hynny.

O ran y broses y buom yn ei dilyn i ddrafftio'r canllawiau, roedd gennym ni nifer o gyrff a rhanddeiliaid dan sylw, o dan arweiniad Marian Gwyn o Race Council Cymru, a chynhaliwyd cyfres o weithdai lle roedd pobl o bob math o wahanol grwpiau a chefndir yn gallu dod draw i ddweud eu dweud. Ac fel rwy'n dweud, mae'r sawl a arweiniodd yr archwiliad gwreiddiol, Gaynor Legall, hefyd wedi cael cyfle i roi sylwadau arnyn nhw. Gobeithio y bydd y broses ymgynghori yn ehangu ar hynny, ond dyma lle rydym ni wedi dechrau.

Rwy'n credu beth sy'n bwysig yn hyn i gyd—. Roeddech chi'n sôn sut na ddylem ni droi at fandaliaeth ddiwylliannol, a buoch chi'n siarad am Colston a Picton, ac fe ddychwelaf at Picton yn y man. Yn y ddwy sefyllfa hynny—. Mae dinas Bryste, er enghraifft, wedi sefydlu mewn gwirionedd—. Rwy'n ceisio cofio beth yw enw'r sefydliad nawr. Maen nhw wedi sefydlu Comisiwn Hanes Bryste 'We Are Bristol', lle maen nhw'n helpu'r gymuned i fynd i'r afael â'r dreftadaeth gymhleth ac aml ei dehongliad. Mae yna rywbeth tebyg iawn yn digwydd yn Lerpwl hefyd, gyda'u hanes cymhleth hwythau.

Nid wyf yn meddwl bod hyn yn ymwneud â fandaliaeth ddiwylliannol yn yr ystyr o ddinistrio henebion; mae'n ymwneud â sut rydym ni'n eu dehongli. Os ydyn ni'n siarad am Picton, er enghraifft, dywedais fy mod i eisiau dod yn ôl ato, oherwydd fe wnaethoch chi'r pwynt am y fyddin ac, wrth gwrs, roedd Picton yn gadfridog milwrol. Ond roedd Picton hefyd yn gyfrifol am arteithio merch 14 oed. Felly, yr hyn a ddywedwn yw, wrth gydnabod ei le yn ein hanes a'r hyn a wnaeth fel cadfridog, gan ymladd dros ei wlad dan y gorchmynion a roddwyd iddo, gwnaeth rai pethau ofnadwy hefyd, yn ymwneud â'r fasnach gaethweision, a oedd hefyd yn ymwneud ag arteithio caethferch ifanc. Mae angen dweud hynny hefyd, ac mae angen cyd-destunoli hynny o ran cydbwyso'r hanes yr ydych chi'n sôn amdano. 

Rwy'n credu ein bod ni yn gweld pethau yr un fath. Rwy'n credu mai'r hyn yr ydym ni'n ei ddweud yw ein bod ni'n deall, pan godwyd yr henebion hyn yn wreiddiol, ein bod ni'n edrych arno mewn ffordd wahanol. Rydym bellach yn edrych arno drwy lens wahanol. Rwyf dim ond yn meddwl am y sgwrs a gefais gyda rheolwr amgueddfa Cyfarthfa yn fy etholaeth, pan sefais ar risiau castell Cyfarthfa a ninnau o dan ystafell wely Crawshay. Dyma ni'n edrych allan ar draws Merthyr a dywedodd y rheolwr wrthyf, 'Dyma lle safai Crawshay bob bore gan arolygu popeth yr oedd yn berchen arno ar draws Merthyr Tudful.' Ond wrth gwrs, allwn ni ddim edrych ar hynny drwy lygaid yr unfed ganrif ar hugain, oherwydd yn amser y Crawshays, ac yn sicr y Crawshays cynnar, a siarad yn gyffredinol roedd y gweithwyr hynny'n cael cyflog da ac yn cael gofal da. Felly, mae'n rhaid i ni osod hynny yng nghyd-destun yr oes honno, yn hytrach na'r unfed ganrif ar hugain. Ond mae'n ymwneud yn llwyr â chydbwyso cyd-destun hanes unrhyw un yr awn ati i geisio ei goffáu.

15:50

Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd, a diolch, Dirprwy Weinidog, am y datganiad heddiw. Hoffwn ategu'r pwyntiau rydych chi wedi sôn amdanyn nhw yn barod am y bobl sydd ddim yn cael eu coffáu hyd yma. Yn sicr mae yna lefydd sydd heb eu coffáu hefyd. Mae'n bwysig ein bod ni'n edrych ar y cyd-destun ehangach i sicrhau bod unrhyw beth sydd gennym ni yn adlewyrchu'r Gymru gyfoes. Wrth gwrs, rydym ni i gyd wedi bod yn croesawu'r cerflun diweddaraf yn ein prifddinas, sef yr un o Betty Campbell. Mae'n anhygoel gweld sut mae hwnna'n gallu ysgogi plant ysgol ac ati i ddeall beth sy'n digwydd heddiw ac i drafod heddiw ynghyd â dathlu beth oedd Betty ei hun wedi'i gyflawni. Hoffwn hefyd ategu sylwadau Tom Giffard am eich Cymraeg chi ar ddechrau'r datganiad hefyd. Mae'n braf iawn clywed mwy o Aelodau yn ceisio'r Gymraeg yma.

Fel rydych chi'n gwybod, Dirprwy Weinidog, mi oeddwn i'n arfer gweithio i Amgueddfa Cymru, ac yn aml yn pasio'r llun o Thomas Picton. Jest llun ar y wal oedd o i fi. Ond pan ddaeth Black Lives Matter fel ymgyrch, des i i ddeall wedyn, oherwydd fy mraint fel person gwyn, doeddwn i ddim yn ymwybodol o hanes problematig y llun. A beth dwi'n meddwl sydd wedi cael ei groesawu ydy'r drafodaeth yna, ein bod ni yn dod i ddeall beth mae hynny'n ei olygu, a beth mae o'n ei olygu i bobl sydd efo profiadau gwahanol iawn i ni. Yn sicr, un o'r pethau dwi'n meddwl dwi'n falch iawn o weld yn sgil y gwaith hwn ydy ei fod o ddim yn rhywbeth sydd wedi bod yn hollol reactive. Mae yna waith dros ddwy flynedd a mwy wedi bod er mwyn creu y pwynt rydyn ni wedi'i gyrraedd heddiw, fel ein bod ni rŵan efo rhywbeth fydd yn ddefnyddiol, gobeithio, i gyrff cyhoeddus sydd yn derbyn arian cyhoeddus, a'u bod nhw felly yn cymryd o ddifri safbwyntiau pawb yn y gymdeithas.

Dwi hefyd yn meddwl ei bod hi'n bwysig inni gydnabod fel Senedd bod pawb ddim yn hapus efo hyn. Os ydych chi'n edrych ar rai o'r sylwadau sydd wedi eu cyfeirio at Amgueddfa Genedlaethol Caerdydd ers iddyn nhw ddechrau'r gwaith o ran Thomas Picton, dydy pawb ddim yn gytûn efo'r ffaith bod yna unrhyw fath o drafod ar hyn, bod yna ailddehongli, chwaith. Ac mae'n gallu bod yn garfan cryf ar y cyfryngau cymdeithasol. Dwi ddim yn awgrymu bod unrhyw un yn eu dilyn nhw, ond os ydych chi eisiau gwneud eich hun yn flin, mae Save Our Statues ar Twitter yn dangos yn glir eu bod nhw ddim yn cytuno efo'r math yma o safbwynt, efo'r ailddehonglu, o gwbl. Dwi'n gwybod eich bod chi wedi sôn ynglŷn â sut mae hyn yn mynd i helpu sefydliadau i ystyried sut maen nhw'n mynd ati efo'r gwaith, ond dwi'n meddwl bod yn rhaid inni fod yn onest bod y gwaith yma'n mynd i fod yn ddadleuol weithiau, a bod hynny'n iawn, a bod ein sefydliadau cyhoeddus ni'n mynd i gael cefnogaeth y Llywodraeth, a fy nghefnogaeth i, yn sicr, a Phlaid Cymru, o ran ymwneud â'r gwaith hwn, a'i bod hi'n iawn ein bod ni'n cael trafodaethau anodd, oherwydd dydy hanes ddim wastad yn hawdd.

Dwi'n cytuno ein bod ni ddim eisiau anghofio'n hanes, ond mae cael trafodaethau fel hyn—. Os ydyn ni o ddifrif eisiau bod yn Gymru wrth-hiliol a'n bod ni o ddifrif eisiau gweld hynny, mi fydd yna angytuno, a dydyn ni ddim wastad yn mynd i allu gwrando ar leisiau'r mwyafrif os mai lleisiau gwyn ydy'r lleisiau hynny. Ac yn sicr, o ran gweld ymatebion fel hyn, dwi'n meddwl mai un o'r pethau fydd yn bwysig iawn o ran yr ymgynghoriad yw ein bod ni'n gweld pwy sy'n ymateb ac, os oes gwrthwynebiad, o ba safbwynt mae'r gwrthwynebiad yna'n dod. Mae fy nghyn-brifysgol yn Iwerddon yn edrych ar y funud o ran ailenwi'r llyfrgell sydd yna oherwydd cysylltiadau problematig efo'r gorffennol, ac yn sicr mae yna anogaeth gan bobl fel yr ymgyrch Save Our Statues i bobl bentyrru o ran rhoi ymatebion i'r ymgynghoriad hwnnw fel bod safbwyntiau pobl gwyn yn cael eu rhoi drosodd yn glir. Mae'n rhaid inni fod yn sicr ein bod ni'n gwrando ar y rhai hynny sydd ddim wedi bod yn cael rhan yn y ddeialog hyd yma ac sydd wedi bod yn bwysig o ran y gwaith hwn. 

Dwi hefyd yn croesawu'r ffaith bod hon yn ffordd wahanol iawn i Lywodraeth Prydain o ran edrych ar y mater, ein bod ni yn rhoi'r anogaeth hynny i awdurdodau lleol a'n cyrff cyhoeddus ni i fynd ati efo'r gwaith gwrth-hiliol hwn. Yr hyn yr hoffwn ofyn ydy: rydych chi wedi dweud bod hwn ddim yn orfodol, sydd yn amlwg yn beth da, ein bod ni'n annog, ond beth sy'n digwydd os nad ydy pobl yn dilyn unrhyw fath o ganllawiau a ddim yn mynd ati i ymgysylltu? Hefyd, y mater o ran arian i gefnogi'r gwaith hwn. Yn aml, mewn amgueddfeydd lleol ac ati, bach iawn ydy'r nifer o staff sydd efallai yn gweithio yn y maes ymgysylltu ac ati. Pa gefnogaeth fydd yn cael ei roi iddyn nhw fel eu bod nhw, fel y mae Amgueddfa Cymru wedi dangos, hefyd yn gallu gwneud y gwaith ymgysylltu sydd ei angen efo'r math yma o bethau?

Dwi'n edrych ymlaen at weld beth ddaw nôl o'r ymgynghoriad, ond yn sicr yn croesawu'r symudiad hwn tuag at sicrhau ein bod ni yn taclo hanes problematig, ein bod ni'n gweithio yn sicr gyda'n gilydd er mwyn creu Cymru wrth-hiliol, a sicrhau bod hanes pawb yn cael ei adlewyrchu a'i gofio. 

Thank you, Dirprwy Lywydd, and thank you, Deputy Minister, for your statement today. I'd like to echo the points that you've already made on those people who aren't currently commemorated. Certainly there are places that aren't commemorated. It's important that we look at the broader context to ensure that anything we have does reflect contemporary Wales. Of course, we have all been welcoming the new statue in our capital city, the Betty Campbell statue. It's incredible how that inspires schoolchildren and so on to understand what's happening today and to discuss that, as well as celebrating what Betty herself achieved. I'd also like to echo Tom Giffard's comment on your use of Welsh at the beginning of the statement. It's very good to hear more Members giving Welsh a go here.

As you know, Deputy Minister, I used to work for Amgueddfa Cymru and often passed that Thomas Picton picture. It was just a painting on the wall for me. But when Black Lives Matter emerged as a campaign, I then came to understand, because of my privilege as a white person, that I wasn't aware of the problematic history of that portrait. And I think what has been welcomed is that wider discussion, that we are coming to understand what that means and what it means for people who have very different experiences to our own. Certainly, one of the things that I'm very pleased to see in light of this work is that it isn't something that's been entirely reactive. There's been work over two years and longer in order to get us to this point, so that we now do have something that will hopefully be useful for public bodies who are in receipt of public funds, and that they do take seriously the views of everyone in society.

I also think it's important that we recognise as a Senedd that not everyone is happy with this. If you look at some of the comments that were referred to National Museum Cardiff when they started their work on Thomas Picton, not everyone is agreed on the fact that there is any sort of discussion on this and that there is reinterpretation. And it can be a strong voice on social media with those views. I'm not suggesting that anyone follows them, but if you want to make yourselves angry, then Save Our Statues on Twitter demonstrates clearly that they don't agree with this kind of stance, with this reinterpretation. I know that you've mentioned how this will help organisations to take account and to consider how they proceed with this work, but I think we have to be honest and admit that this is going to be contentious at times, and that's fine, and that our public organisations will have the Government's support and support from me and from Plaid Cymru, certainly in terms of dealing with this important work. It's right that we do have those difficult debates, because history isn't always easy or comfortable. 

I know that we shouldn't forget our history, but having these discussions—. If we are serious about being an anti-racist Wales and we seriously want to see that happen, there will be disagreement, and we're not always going to be listening to the voice of the majority if they are all white voices. And certainly in terms of seeing responses such as this, I think one of the very important things in terms of the consultation is that we see who responds, and if there is opposition, from what viewpoint is that opposition coming. Because I have seen that my former university in Ireland is looking at the moment at renaming the library there because of problematic links with the past, and certainly there is encouragement from people like Save Our Statues for people to pile in in giving responses to that consultation so that the views of white people are conveyed clearly. We have to be assured that we are listening to those who haven't been involved in the dialogue to date and have been important in this work. 

I also welcome the fact that this is a very different way of looking at this compared to the UK Government in that we do give that encouragement to local authorities and public bodies to proceed with this anti-racist work. What I would like to ask is: you've said that this isn't mandatory, which is of course a good thing, that we encourage people, but what happens if people don't follow any sort of guidance and don't engage? Also, on the issue of funding to support this work, very often, in local museums and so on, the number of staff working in engagement is very small, so what support will be provided to them so that they too, as Amgueddfa Cymru has demonstrated, can do that engagement work necessary in terms of these activities?

I look forward to hearing what comes back from the consultation, but I certainly welcome this move towards ensuring that we do tackle our problematic history and that we work together in order to create an anti-racist Wales and ensure that everyone's history is reflected and remembered.

15:55