National Assembly for Wales

Good afternoon, everybody.

With your permission, a brief statement from me on the incident in Newport this morning, just to say that our thoughts are very much with the children and families affected by that incident. We're grateful to the emergency services for their swift response and to everybody involved in supporting the children affected. This is an ongoing police investigation, so it would be inappropriate, I think, for me to comment further, but our thoughts are very much with those injured and those for whom this has caused anxiety today.

To the question, the uptake of annual health checks for people with a learning disability continues to show encouraging month-on-month improvement, increasing by more than 12 per cent since December 2025. Building on this momentum will be a key priority of the new learning disability transformation programme, helping to increase uptake further, identify health needs earlier and improve health outcomes.

First Minister, I welcome the inclusion of annual health checks in GP contracts and the new national pathway. Could you give me more detail on how the Welsh Government is working with the health boards and with GP practices to keep learning disability registers accurate, make invitations and appointments accessible, and how these figures can guide further support to increase uptake?

Certainly. We're working with health boards, with GP practices and NHS partners across the board to improve the quality of learning disability registers so that eligible people can be identified and offered that all-important health check. We're also supporting primary care staff through training, digital assessment tools and reasonable adjustments to make invitations, appointments and the health check process itself more accessible for people with a learning disability. Since annual health checks became part of the core GP contract, we have strengthened data collection in Government on both offers and completed checks. That information is important because it helps us to identify variation where it exists, helps us to target support where it is needed most, and also, so importantly, to share good practice to increase uptake right across Wales, which is what we're looking to see.

First Minister, once an annual health check identifies a need, responsibility should not fall on the individual to fight for treatment. People with learning disabilities need a clear, funded pathway to further tests, specialist assessment and treatment. Welsh Labour's Lynne Neagle cited £550 million over three years from Westminster for ALN. We know not all this money will be allocated to ALN, and much will go to other manifesto commitments and pledges. Last week, your finance Minister didn't, couldn't or wouldn't answer my question on Cynnal, but delivered another Plaid word salad with no answers. Show some transparency on what the rest of the £550 million is being used for. Will it support treatment protocols for people with learning disabilities? If not, please identify the specific NHS budget that funds this pathway. Thank you.

I think we've been pretty transparent that the bulk of the pressures that we face as a Government do indeed come from the NHS, from across the whole range of services that are provided, and that it's very important that we do provide, including the services that we are talking about in this question. The Member is quite right to identify the fact that the onus shouldn't be on the individual, and that is why we are putting those steps in place to strengthen the provision of how those invitations go out, to make sure that those individuals who need to be targeted for their well-being are targeted and brought into the system. This is a whole-system approach and not just one based on the finances.

I echo the points raised by the Member for Casnewydd Islwyn about the importance of these annual health checks. It's important that GPs make reasonable adjustments for these annual health checks as well, and that could mean anything from having a quiet space available for people waiting for their appointment to offering a longer appointment for some patients. Now, last week, I met with Mencap Cymru to hear about their 'I'm in' campaign, which highlights the importance of GP learning disability registers as a gateway to accessing annual health checks. Now, for many years, organisations such as Mencap Cymru have highlighted the importance of increasing annual health check uptake and ensuring they are delivered to a consistently high standard. So, therefore, First Minister, can you tell us what support does the Welsh Government provide to local health boards to help GP practices make reasonable adjustments so that these annual health checks are as accessible and as comfortable as possible for people with learning disabilities?

The Member is right that those reasonable adjustments that I referred to in my initial response are very, very important. Sometimes they can be small, but they can make a big difference. I also welcome the referencing by the Member of the work that Mencap Cymru is doing. And that's another good example, isn't it, of how this is something that many organisations, including the voluntary and the third sector, need to be involved in. We will work with health boards. We will work directly with GP practices also, to make sure that those reasonable adjustments are made. And I very much welcome feedback from an organisation such as Mencap Cymru on how we could make that system even better.

Diolch. I welcome the Ireland-Wales shared statement 2030, committing our nations to strengthening cultural partnerships and artistic exchange. In my constituency, Other Voices Cardigan has become one of the most vibrant and successful examples of that ambition. Since 2019, it has brought together Welsh and Irish artists, audiences and communities, thanks to support from the Welsh Government, the Irish Government and broadcasters. The festival has delivered significant economic benefits for Aberteifi, increased numbers visiting from Ireland to west Wales, and created lasting creative partnerships between musicians from both countries. Sadly, a late decision to reduce funding this year means the festival isn't taking place. So, a multi-year funding agreement is now vital to enable the festival to continue to plan for future years. So, will the First Minister explore this potential with his Irish counterparts to help secure the long-term future of Other Voices Cardigan and strengthen Wales-Ireland relations for years to come?

Other Voices has certainly been a valued cultural partnership for Wales, helping to showcase Welsh and international talent, while strengthening our relationship specifically with Ireland. Officials did meet the festival organisers last month, on 22 September, to discuss future proposals, with a further meeting, as I understand, scheduled for early November. And my officials in Dublin also are discussing future support with the Irish Government. We do remain open to discussions about future proposals. This will be, of course, subject to funding priorities and available budgets.

First Minister, collaboration from the Irish Republic is something that I, like you, strongly support, particularly on trade, Holyhead and the resilience of our links across the Irish Sea. But co-operation between two Governments is one matter; advancing a party political constitutional objective is quite another. Your Government's shared statement, as you just mentioned before, with Ireland, specifically refers to co-operation in areas for which the Welsh Government has devolved responsibility. So, will you give this Chamber a categorical assurance that Welsh Government offices, officials, public money and ministerial visits to Ireland will not be used directly or indirectly to promote Plaid Cymru's campaign for Welsh independence? And can you give that assurance today?

Well, we had a meeting recently that was a political meeting between a political party in Ireland and me as leader of Plaid Cymru in Wales on areas of shared responsibility. There are Government actions that we take that are around trade and that are around culture. Similarly, we have an agreement with the Scottish Government around climate change and renewable energy, and so on. The activities of this Government will be around those Government issues on which we can find common ground in order to pursue the interests of the people of Ireland and the people of Wales.

We on these benches very much value greater co-operation and increased trade with Ireland. Around 1.5 million passenger journeys are made between Wales and Ireland each year through Holyhead port, making it a vital gateway between the two nations. Holyhead handled 4.3 million tonnes of freight between Ireland and Wales in 2024, which is more than any other Welsh port. The 2.4 km Holyhead breakwater is approximately 150 years old and needs work done to it. First Minister, closer co-operation with Ireland must be demonstrated through delivering not simply warm words. Your Government inherited a £40 million commitment to Holyhead breakwater, together with a clear warning that its failure could ultimately close the port. With Welsh-Irish connectivity, trade and around 700 local jobs dependent on resilient port infrastructure, why is there still no firm timetable, and when exactly will the refurbishment begin and be completed?

Work is progressing on the work that absolutely needs to happen to maintain this remarkable piece of engineering. For anybody who hasn't ventured to the far end of it, clear a decent amount of time, because it takes time, but it is something that is a genuine engineering marvel. That is an immediate challenge to the port of Holyhead, and action is being taken to remediate the damage caused by many years of Irish sea storms. The ongoing damage, of course, that we face is the damage of Brexit. The Member mentions the importance of the port of Holyhead, and we know the pain that has been caused in terms of limits on trade to the port of Holyhead. We're still seeing it now with the comings and goings on the border posts. This is disruption that has held back the development of the port of Holyhead. That is something that is in my mind when I say that we should be building closer relationships with our European friends, the closest of which is across the Irish sea—the Republic of Ireland.

Diolch, Lywydd. I want to firstly pay tribute to the Aberfan tragedy, which took place 60 years ago tomorrow. We'll never forget the lives lost and the community forever scarred by this devastating event. I appreciate the Government is making a statement on this later today, and I welcome the opportunity to pay further tribute then.

Llywydd, we are coming to the end of a very long half term, but whatever fatigue we might be feeling here in this Chamber, quadruple that and you might get somewhere near to how our teachers are feeling. It's not just down to the day-to-day workload; teachers are under immense strain when it comes to managing students' behaviour. More and more teachers are reporting high levels of verbal and physical abuse from students, and many are beginning to feel unsafe at work. First Minister, we've heard a lot about this Government's new literacy and numeracy frameworks, but will your Government now commit to delivering a robust behaviour framework, and will it include zero tolerance on violence, which would protect school staff from the sort of abuse that isn't accepted in other public institutions, because what's currently in place across schools in Wales is clearly not fit for purpose?

I absolutely think that we should have that zero-tolerance approach towards violence. My Government has shown very clearly its support for the teaching profession, and the pupils, the parents and the wider school community that are affected when, sadly, we do see incidents of violence in schools, albeit, thankfully, very, very rare. Just as we have put clear frameworks in place to improve standards in schools, we have also clearly made it a priority to work across agencies to make sure that all those partners can work together to make schools the safe learning environment that we all want them to be.

First Minister, a well-known issue with behaviour in schools is linked to students having access to their mobile phones. At the end of July this year, schools across the border in England were given clarity on mobile phone use. What was initially guidance became law and, from the beginning of this academic year, a statutory mobile phone ban was in place. Yet, here we are in Wales, the first half term down, and teachers from my constituency are contacting me to say that the problems with phones are persisting, and headteachers are holding their hands up, saying there's nothing they can do because they're waiting for guidance from the Welsh Government. So, First Minister, when can teachers in Wales be given the same clarity as in England? When will this Government make a decision on whether or not to ban mobile phones from the classroom? 

We already made a decision as a Government to act as quickly as we could. It was a suggestion that we might legislate on this. We took the decision that we didn't want to wait for legislation to happen and that we would press ahead with making it clear that we, as a Government, wanted action to be taken. That consultation is happening now, so we can move as quickly as we can to empower those school leaders to make the necessary choices around phones. We made it very, very clear as a Government that we expect that to happen, and that will be in the guidance.

You're talking about empowering schools to make the necessary choices around phones, and that leads to this notion of guidance as opposed to bringing something into law. First Minister, the fact is that you are speaking, as you know, to a former teacher, and I can tell you that schools interpret guidance very, very differently. So, what we really need is leadership from this Government on this matter. It is vital that a consistent approach is enforced across all schools in Wales, not only to benefit teachers dealing with poor behaviour associated with phone use, but for the well-being and academic success of our students. I would like to read out a quote from a former year 11 pupil of mine, word for word:

'It's like you're distracted by your phone. You can't get anything done. I know the school says, "Keep your phone in your bag", but I know it's there, and if I hear it buzz, I just have to check it, and I can't focus on anything else. If they banned phones in schools, I know I'd hate it'—

she was very honest—

'but I'd keep thinking about all the things I'd be able to get done if they did.'

This is a 16-year-old GCSE student crying out for a boundary with phones for the good of her education. First Minister, the Government can't control what goes on in people's homes, but it can lead the way when it comes to removing the distraction of phones from schools. We've got the worst Programme for International Student Assessment scores in the UK and a mental health catastrophe on the way. So much of this can be linked to excessive phone use. So, First Minister, I ask will you today commit to an outright ban on mobile phones in schools and, if so, when can we see that happen?

We agree with the points that have been made. We agree on the damage that can be caused to a child's education through the existence of phones in schools. We agree also on the element of bullying that can be linked to mobile phone use, and that is why we took the decision not to wait for legislation and to take action sooner, because this Government expects schools to take the action of the kind that the Member outlines.

Diolch, Lywydd. I'd also like to pay tribute to the community of Aberfan, as we remember one of Wales's worst ever tragedies.

First Minister, our democracy is facing unprecedented attacks through the spread of misinformation and disinformation. So-called bots and algorithms are a threat to open-mindedness, and I'd urge you to ask UK intelligence chiefs whether there's any evidence emerging of any recent interference in Welsh democracy. But, of course, the greatest defence against this is the objective truth provided by truly independent journalism. The BBC in Wales must be protected from the recently announced cuts. Our democracy needs impartial and independent news more than ever before, and I'm amazed that we haven't had an opportunity to debate or discuss the threats posed to the BBC in Wales. First Minister, what are you doing to save jobs at BBC Wales?

I declare an interest previously declared, as a journalist myself, as a member of the National Union of Journalists, and, of course, we are all deeply concerned about any funding decisions at the BBC that impact not just journalism itself, but the way we tell our own story as a nation to ourselves as a nation and to the world. So, I'm very concerned indeed about potential cuts, and that is something that we will publicly make clear. On the other hand, we, of course, do not have a situation whereby broadcasting is devolved. I would like to be in the situation where broadcasting is devolved in order that we are able to put more protections in place for Welsh-based journalism, for the way that we're able to speak about our nation to ourselves and to the world. We will be taking measures to strengthen the voice of broadcasting in Wales, but we need to see that devolution, and I would welcome the support of the Member for that call.

First Minister, I don't think we can wait for the devolution of broadcasting, and, indeed, devolution of broadcasting in itself will not protect BBC Wales from cuts being imposed by the board centrally in London. It needs protection right now. We shouldn't have radio silence from the Welsh Government over what's happening at the BBC. It's as though Ministers are content to sit on their hands whilst our democracy is weakened.

Now, another issue over which Plaid Cymru Members sat on their hands is the Hillsborough law. In the last Senedd term, your party abstained on a crucial consent motion. When the matter returns to this Chamber, will you commit to vote with Welsh Labour and support the fight for justice for the 97 and their families?

The Member knows full well that we support the principle and the purpose of a Hillsborough law, and that the duty of candour is something that people should be able to expect.

On the comment that he made previously about a board in London making decisions on broadcasting in Wales, let's just, for example, replace that 'board in London' with 'a UK Government'. On how many issues is that UK Government making decisions in London that have a detrimental impact on us in Wales? And how many years have Labour sat on their hands on rail funding, rather than making decisions that could make a real difference now to the infrastructure that we need in Wales?

I hope there's a conversion happening here, where the leader of the Labour group is starting to see things my way. The evidence suggests otherwise. But this is precisely the case that we make. We need here in Wales to be able to make those decisions that build a better future for Wales ourselves, because we cannot depend on a board in London or, indeed, a UK Government to do the right thing for Wales themselves.

Diolch, Lywydd. Can I also put on record that our thoughts are also with those affected by the devastating events in Aberfan 60 years ago this week?

First Minister, it's vitally important that every single penny of taxpayers' money is well spent, and that includes on our national health service here in Wales. Unfortunately, more than £600 million has been paid out by the Welsh NHS in clinical negligence and personal injury claims over the past five years, £145 million of which was just in the last financial year alone. These are eye-watering figures, but they provide further evidence of the crisis engulfing the NHS here in Wales. Every single payout, of course—. Behind those payouts are families and individuals who've suffered loss or harm as a result of some tragic situation and failings in care. Now, our priority, I believe, has to be preventing these tragedies from happening in the first place, because every pound paid in compensation is a pound that could have been invested in delivering better care, better facilities for patients and better outcomes for them across the country. What action are you and your Government taking to get to grips with this issue?

I agree, Llywydd, with the points made by the Member that, when we lose money from the NHS in compensation payments, that is money that is lost from the front line of tackling the serious issues that we have within the NHS in Wales. We don't think of it centrally as a financial issue, because behind every one of those compensation claims you will have somebody that has suffered a loss of some sort, because of—. It could be a human error, it could be a deeper systemic issue within the NHS. All I'll say is that we are determined as a Government to root out those problems that are within our control. There will always be mistakes made, by very, very well-meaning and professional health workers, and the compensation system exists in order to address that and pay recompense where that is necessary. But we are a Government that is determined to root out those issues that are creating the unsustainability of the NHS, and perhaps the unsustainability that is leading to problems that could end up with a compensation payout.

I asked you for specific things about what you would do to try and tackle this, and I appreciate the words about your desire to get on and deliver some improved sustainability, but you didn't tell me any specifics in terms of action that you would take, and, unfortunately, the situation with compensation payments looks as though it's going to get a whole lot worse. The Royal College of Emergency Medicine has warned today that our emergency departments in Wales are in a precarious position and facing the prospects of a very, very difficult winter, largely due to a lack of hospital beds. And the latest Welsh Risk Pool talks about the financial forecasts in the future, and buried on page 733 of a 1,100-page pack of papers for the Velindre University NHS Trust board, it suggests that the annual cost in the year 2028-29 of negligence claims is expected to rise to more than £310 million per year. So, within three years, the Welsh NHS could be shelling out the equivalent of salaries for more than 8,000 nurses in clinical negligence claims. I'd rather see that money spent on preventing people from coming to harm and dying than on compensation.

So, can I ask you today, First Minister, to declare a health emergency? Everybody knows that we need to do that. Surge hospital numbers, recruit more doctors, nurses and paramedics, and then get on and deliver the safer care that people across Wales need.

I respect the consistency with which the leader of the Conservatives makes that call for declaring a health emergency. I want to impress this Senedd with the fact that I don't think we could be treating the NHS with a higher level of urgency than we are currently. Giving it a title in that respect doesn't work, doesn't make a difference. What we have done since coming into Government, in that very short time, is make that financial investment in speeding up flow through the system, the kind of governance changes that we believe will lead to better management and, hopefully, if we get this right, to reducing the number of errors that happen within the health service, and improving our ability to target what is going wrong across the health service.

The Member knows, having spoken on health for many, many years, that the problems we face within the NHS in Wales are multiple. Our task is to build that sustainability to create a system that works well together. I am satisfied that we are putting those steps in place now. Will it take time? Yes. But the example given on the need to bring down compensation payments is a very, very valid example of why keeping things as they were under previous administrations within the health service is not an option.

Everybody in Wales deserves access to high-quality care and support that is timely, effective and centred around their needs. Through investment in therapeutic support, early intervention, the removal of profit from care and the transformation of children’s services, we are committed to working with the 75 signatories to our corporate parenting charter to improve stability, strengthen relationships and deliver better outcomes for adopted and care-experienced children and young people.

In the August 2026 report, Care Inspectorate Wales found that adoption support remained inconsistent, with waiting lists across almost every regional collaborative. The average number of days taken for children to move from the decision that they should be placed for adoption to actually being in place varied considerably across Wales, with the lowest figure of 248 days waiting in the Western Bay Adoption Service to a high of 450 days waiting in the Adoption Mid and West Wales collaborative. It is apparent that you want to build a united Wales, but in what modern nation is it acceptable for a child to wait an additional 202 days to get the outcome they need in one region compared to the other? This is not timely.

Having experienced the care system myself, both as a child and as an adoptive parent, I know the struggle first-hand. So, my question is simple: what specifically is this Government going to do to close these gaps and ensure equitable support nationwide?

Well, the Member's lived experience tells her why this is not acceptable, that people are waiting too long, and, as a Government, we want to close that gap. The Welsh Government funds the National Adoption Service. The national adoption commitment supports access to a range of universal targeted and specialist provision, which is important. But we have to be always looking at means to make sure that children have the support that they need sooner. It is not the situation that we accept things as they are.

We also have to accept that once we are able, hopefully, working with other partners, to speed up that initial part of the system, adoption is recognised as a lifelong journey, and support isn't limited to that point of placement, as much as we need to get that point of placement speeded up and the making of that adoption order. Children, young people and families can access and re-engage with adoption supporters as needs emerge, or as those needs change over time. But the Member is right. Through our work with the National Adoption Service and the funding that is going in—over £2 million of core funding per year—we have to make sure that that initial contact is made quicker.

First Minister, the previous Government had a programme of radical reform of care for care-experienced children and young people. That programme made progress, but I would argue that there is much more work still to be done. The programme benefited from the proactive involvement of successive First Ministers. Can I ask whether it is the Government's intention to continue that programme and whether you will personally be involved in it? Because I think that is a vital thing, that we all recognise that care-experienced children are all our children.

Absolutely, and I certainly appreciate efforts made by Ministers and First Ministers in the past to highlight this as an issue that we have come to, I think, understand as being one that we as elected Members need to take more seriously than perhaps we have done in the past. I certainly will work closely with my ministerial team. Programmes will change, programmes will develop, programmes will evolve, and that is very much what we want to do in partnership with others across this Senedd.

But we know that there's been a lot of attention given, for example, to the cliff edge of care—when young people, having gone through care, leave care and find themselves without that level of support that we should be able to give them. That's one example of why we need to work right across Government, including the First Minister, to show those young people that we are serious in our words and in our deeds in supporting them.

First Minister, many young people face a sheer cliff-edge situation when they turn 18 and prepare to leave care. It means moving from an established care system that they're familiar with to the uncertainty of independent living. That, quite understandably, can be really daunting because often they don't have the family network, safety nets or support that other young people have. Too many care-experienced young people face challenges with financing, housing, employment, education and their mental health. So, First Minister, I'd like to know: what is your Government doing to ensure that young people across Wales are as prepared as possible for this transition? And will you commit to ensuring support continues for as long as these young people need it, rather than simply ending it on their eighteenth birthday?

I'm grateful to the Member for again emphasising that cliff edge that we need to avoid. Action is being taken to provide longer term support for young people who have left care. That starts with the role of personal advisers and provision to ensure that all care leavers do have a personal adviser up to the age of 25. I think that's very, very important. We have re-established the Wales leaving care forum to share learning and inform our policy development on care leavers. And finally, perhaps—again, one of the areas where we have to work cross-departmentally on this—our programme for government specifically includes a commitment to embed a housing first, trauma-informed and person-centred approach to tackling homelessness. That's very, very relevant when it comes to making sure that we look after the housing needs of young people leaving care.

We have the largest NHS workforce Wales has ever had. We have a committed workforce. We have a skilled workforce. But we know that the state of the workforce can't be judged by numbers alone. That is why we are developing a new NHS workforce strategy now to support a sustainable workforce for the future. Our new digital and estate strategies will also support the modernisation of services to nurture a more productive and innovative workforce.

Thank you, First Minister, for that answer. Numbers do make a difference when it comes to general practitioner practices. Over the last 15 years, there's been a drop in GP numbers of some 20 per cent, from 1,845 to under 1,500 GPs now available within the Welsh NHS. You have a manifesto commitment to, obviously, put an extra 100 GPs into the service by the end of this Senedd term. How are those 100 GPs going to be allocated to the GP practices in Wales, given that, as a percentage, we have fewer full-time GPs working within the Welsh NHS, and yet patient numbers have gone up by a third for those full-time equivalent GPs?

Full-time equivalence is very, very important here, because we've been given statistics in recent years showing the number of GPs growing, when actually the number of full-time equivalent GPs has not increased at the same level. Yes, we have a pledge to recruit 100 new GPs. Essentially, we know that there are different pressures in different parts of Wales. We will need to make those decisions based on the specific pressures in different parts of Wales. We know, for example, that rural parts of Wales have faced problems in recruiting GPs. But it's not just rural areas either; post-industrial areas have experienced problems in recruiting GPs also. This is very much a part of that workforce strategy. Again, coming back to my initial point, it's not just about numbers; it's how those people are used, how they're individually able to work to the top of their training, but also that they're in the right place, doing the right things, to make sure that that NHS sustainability really does exist across the board.

I declare an interest as somebody who lives with diabetes and has worked in diabetes care. Our specialist diabetes teams in Wales deserve enormous credit for the progress they've made in giving people access to new diabetes technology. What we need to appreciate is that Wales has made that progress without the same dedicated injection of implementation funding that we have seen in England. That is a success story for Wales and, above all, for our NHS staff, but we must be careful that their success is not used as evidence that they can simply continue to do more with the same resources. First Minister, how will the Welsh Government build on that success and ensure that our specialist workforce has the investment it needs so that Wales can continue to improve access to life-changing diabetes technology? Diolch.

The Member, Llywydd, is right to recognise the success of our specialist diabetes teams here in Wales, and I'm proud of the progress that those teams have made. We continue to support improvement in the delivery of diabetes care by using a carefully planned approach to NHS services. The Welsh Government itself sets national planning requirements on NHS organisations through the NHS planning framework and system measures. The expectations for planning diabetes care are set out in the quality statement for diabetes, which was updated earlier this year, in February. As part of our ongoing Tackling Diabetes Together programme, we're supporting health boards to ensure that type 1 diabetics can access hybrid closed-loop systems. This is the very latest technology recommended by the National Institute for Health and Care Excellence. It's a good example of how we're using technology and using innovation in order to improve the outcomes for patients.

The NHS in Wales now employs more than 100,000 members of full-time equivalent staff across the organisation. Those staff are the backbone of our NHS, and they do vital work to provide the care that so many people in Wales depend on. But, too often, they are overburdened and under-resourced, and those problems are exacerbated when staffing levels are insufficient. Official statistics show that there are currently more than 5,000 unfilled posts across our NHS, with medical and dental vacancies nearing 9 per cent. Sickness absences are elevated, and many clinicians are reporting that staffing levels are currently inadequate to meet patient demand. What specific action is the Government taking to reduce our dependency on agency and temporary staff, so that we can recruit and retain more home-grown workers and deliver a measurable improvement for our patients in Wales?

I welcome those comments. This is something that was a mantra of mine when I was a health spokesman in opposition. It is quite obvious why over-reliance on agency staff causes and exacerbates unsustainability within the workforce. It's something that my Minister has acted on, because dealing with that historic overuse of agency work absolutely gets to grips with how we make sure that we're not taking short-term decisions, but that we're thinking about the long term always. I think if there's one thing that previous administrations were failing on more than any it was—and it was well meant—'deal with the waiting times now, as quickly as possible'. It wasn't particularly successful, but also was not addressing the long-term problems. Making sure that we have long-term staffing in place, with a commitment to those areas of the NHS in which they're working, gives you that robustness that we need to improve services moving forward. This is part of that wider workforce planning agenda, as I said. We've been clear that workforce planning across NHS Wales must continue to strengthen. Workforce planning has often relied on just replacing existing vacancies and modelling based on current workforce numbers, rather than taking a broader look. That's a fundamentally different approach that we're taking as a Government.

Motor neurone disease is a devastating illness that has a profound impact on those affected, their families and loved ones. We are committed to improving care and support for people living with the disease. Health boards are implementing the quality statement for neurological conditions to provide better, more consistent care for people with MND and other neurological conditions.

Diolch, Brif Weinidog. Motor neurone disease, as you said, is such a devastating, rapidly progressing condition, and, for those people who are living with it, time is really critical. I lost my auntie to MND a couple of years ago, and I saw first-hand the devastating impact that that had on her and our family as well. Around a third of people who are diagnosed with MND die within a year of that diagnosis, yet the MND Association tells us that securing funding for vital home adaptation can take just as long. And that funding is about so much more than just home improvements. It's about preserving people's independence, their dignity and also their quality of life. Constituents have contacted me about the difficulties that they face in securing these adaptations. People with MND shouldn't have to spend their precious time waiting for their homes to be made safe and accessible for them. So, Prif Weinidog, what steps are the Welsh Government taking to address the critical housing challenges faced by people living with MND in Wales?

Well, the first thing I would say is that I'm sorry for your and your family's loss, and no doubt your own experience will make you an effective campaigner for those living with MND. People have a right to expect us to help them to maintain their independence and to continue to live at home with dignity. Home adaptations are a smart preventative investment, protecting independence and generally easing those pressures on health and care services. The Social Services and Well-being (Wales) Act 2014 codes of practice already enable local authorities to respond quickly where a person has a rapidly deteriorating condition, as with MND. To make this possible, Welsh Government continues to invest some £60 million to speed up and expand home adaptations, on top of funding to local authorities to deliver disabled facilities grants to their residents. In addition, the Welsh Government-funded Managing Better service, delivered by Care and Repair Cymru and partners, provides practical advice, support and home interventions for people with complex needs, including MND.

Through expansion of pay-as-you-go on the rail network, our £26 million investment in bus grants and network north Wales, and £28 million of funding through the regional transport fund, we continue to invest meaningfully in public transport in north Wales. Transport for Wales have recently concluded a consultation on the bus network specifically across the region, and more than 1,000 people participated, showing just how important public transport is to communities across the region.

Diolch, Lywydd. Diolch, Brif Weinidog. Residents in rural Flintshire villages such as Llanfynydd and Penyffordd feel increasingly frustrated by the lack of reliable bus services. They're sporadic at best, and they're also under threat. For any vibrant community, that simply isn't good enough. This is about more than bus timetables; this is about people's independence, it's their ability to get to hospital, to get to work, to see friends and family, to live their day-to-day lives. Some of you might think that Fflint Wrecsam is an urban area, but I can tell you there are rural pockets in my constituency that feel as excluded and isolated as any in Wales. For some, especially the elderly, these barriers of transport can leave them feeling isolated with limited options to get around. So, will the First Minister outline what work is being done with Transport for Wales to protect and improve rural bus services to ensure these communities can access public transport easily and effectively?

The Member is right, Llywydd, these are people's lives, this is their ability to access services and to access leisure and so on, and I certainly recognise the vital role that bus services play in that, in connecting rural communities to work, education, healthcare and social opportunities, and those in urban areas to those opportunities too. Some £150 million is being invested in local bus services across Wales this year, helping to protect services and to improve connectivity, despite significant cost pressures right now across the sector.

We are working closely, though, with local authorities and Transport for Wales to improve access to public transport in rural areas, including through innovative solutions such as the Fflecsi demand-responsive services that have been introduced in Flintshire, as in some other areas. Alongside that, crucially, the bus reform programme that we'll be delivering will help deliver a more integrated and more accessible bus network that must better meet the needs of communities across Wales.

High-street businesses are at the heart of thriving communities. We're backing businesses across Gŵyr Abertawe through town centre regeneration, alongside advice, finance, skills and digital support. In addition, our independent town centre taskforce is focused on practical options to revitalise town centres and create thriving places where businesses can succeed, and where eligible retail, hospitality and leisure premises will benefit from a permanent 30 per cent reduction in business rates from April 2027, something that has been widely welcomed.

Thank you, First Minister. Our high streets are being taken over by dodgy vape and barbershops. Last week, in my constituency, two vape shops were shut down due to their suspected involvement in trading illegal goods, including drugs. It's also come to my attention that many similar businesses have been placed on the visa sponsor list, which allows them to bring in so-called skilled workers into this country. What is the Welsh Government doing to support councils, trading standards and immigration enforcement to finally take action on this crisis, which is destroying our local high streets?

Our high streets have been in decline for many years. Where we have any examples of illicit businesses or businesses not behaving in the appropriate way, it has always been the case that trading standards are able to step in. We certainly do want to work with local authorities to make sure that our trading standards are able to step in, whatever the issues might be around trading misdemeanours or worse. What I am focused on and what we in Welsh Government are able to do is to bring that vibrancy back to our high streets, making sure that we do have that mix of businesses on our high streets, that mix of shops and leisure, and to create that footfall that brings our high streets back to, I think, what we all believe they should be, which are the centrepieces of communities.

Our focus is very much, Llywydd, on making every pound of public money work as hard as possible for the people of Wales. That means spending better, reducing duplication, simplifying how Government works and moving resources from administration towards front-line services, which I think is what people want to see. We're also taking a much stronger focus on outcomes, making sure public spending delivers real benefits for people and supports the priorities this Government was elected to deliver.

Minister, Welsh taxpayers are continually being asked to pay more, yet many feel they are receiving less in return. Does the Minister agree that rather than continually demanding more from Welsh taxpayers, the Welsh Government should first demonstrate that it can spend the money it receives responsibly? And will the Minister commit to an independent, comprehensive audit of Welsh Government spending, identifying wasteful projects, unnecessary bureaucracy and duplication of services, with a clear commitment to redirect those savings towards front-line NHS services, education and local communities, because surely the priority should be delivering value for taxpayers, not simply spending more money?

In effect, I don't disagree with the central point made there, that our job is to spend money well, but your job is to hold us to account for the way that we spend our money. [Interruption.] That's what you've been elected to do. I became First Minister. And on an independent audit of the way Welsh Government spends its money, well, we have a national audit office for Wales, which literally does that. We are held to account in different ways through the democratic process, through committees here in the Senedd. Our task in putting together the budget now, for publication as a draft next month, is to make sure that, 'Are we eking the most out of the money that we are entrusted to look after and make the most out of?' That is our job; hold us to account for it.

Restructuring isn't an immediate priority for this Government. We are instead focused on improving delivery and outcomes, and addressing barriers to more effective institutional collaboration. To do that, we are directing health boards to shift towards prevention, community care and early intervention. We're also strengthening accountability arrangements and, crucially, we're reviewing regional joint working to support better joined-up care, which is vital. This underpins our determination to ensure that health board boundaries aren't barriers to better delivery of health and care.

We've found on at least five occasions that you've described Betsi Cadwaladr as too large, too unwieldy and too distant from the people it serves. That was when you were the spokesperson for health for Plaid Cymru in opposition. And on 2 October this year, as Prif Weinidog, you said you were essentially in the same place as when you were a health spokesperson. You said we were in the last chance saloon with Betsi Cadwaladr, and that Wales must be ready to break up Betsi, which can only mean that, in your view, it's too large. Yet in recent weeks, Plaid Cymru Members have suggested that the answer to bed closures in Powys is to merge Powys Teaching Health Board with Hywel Dda University Health Board or even with Betsi Cadwaladr. That idea was nowhere in your manifesto, so I'm seeking to put on record that this is not something that Plaid Cymru are intending to do. Diolch yn fawr iawn.

As I said, there are no plans for restructuring. I will refer to what I have already said. Are we looking for better partnerships? Yes. Does that mean better partnerships between health boards? Yes. Do we look for a neighbouring health board where there's capacity to do something to step in and take the pressure off another? Yes. Innovations of that kind are very, very important. Do I stand by my comment over the years as—? I declare my interest as a patient of Betsi Cadwaladr. Do I have a sense that here we have a health board whose scale is an issue that you don't get elsewhere? Yes, I think that that is true, but the answer is to see if we can work around that.

Now, I have used the words 'last chance saloon', 'they are on notice'. Call it what you like, we have to give it a go. We did not come into Government saying, 'We're going to restructure the health boards.' What we did say we would do is deliver a more sustainable NHS service and care service for the people of Wales. If it means getting to grips with the organisation and shapes of boards in the future, we'll look at that. But let's crack on with the work that we have begun as a Government now. I believe it will reap results.

Yes. Delivering 20,000 additional social homes by 2030 is a clear priority for this Government. Some £474 million is allocated for social housing this year. Local authorities across the Clwyd constituency have been allocated almost £100 million in social housing grants funding this year, and this new Government's supplementary budget has put forward plans for an additional £20 million nationally, which I hope will attract support. Together, this will contribute to the delivery of almost 1,300 social homes in Clwyd.

Diolch. It was really, really good to hear you speak about Clwyd then, which is the constituency that I represent and where I have used available data to calculate that there are approximately 4,000 households on waiting lists for social homes there alone. So, it's evidently clear that we've got a severe lack of affordable housing here in Wales, and the plans to build 20,000 new social homes by 2030 is amazing and really welcome. However, it's really important to note that housing need varies widely by community, and even within communities, both in terms of volume and the type needed. Could the First Minister confirm that assessments of current housing stocks and needs across the different communities will be undertaken, and give assurances that those developments are to be aligned with the specific community needs?

I certainly recognise the demand for additional social housing, which is why, over the summer this year, we published a new version of the local housing market assessments tool and guidance. These are vital tools in understanding the local housing needs of the diverse communities within each local authority area, and they help ensure that local authorities bring forward developments that are aligned with those specific community needs. I believe that the record investment that we want to put in place demonstrates our commitment. I'll also make the point that it's not just building new homes either, and we will take an approach in a number of different ways in bringing property back into use, and so on, to address what is a problem that affects all parts of Wales and one that Government is equipped to deal with.

No veteran should feel unsupported when facing significant personal challenges. We're committed to ensuring that veterans in Wales can access the mental health support they need. Veterans are entitled to priority access to NHS care, subject to clinical need, for service-related conditions. They can also access specialist support through Veterans' NHS Wales and the NHS '111 press 2' mental health service, which provides free confidential support 24 hours a day.

First Minister, soldiers from Wales answered their country's call in Northern Ireland. Some never came home, and this Remembrance Day we will rightly honour their memory. Those deployed as part of Operation Banner witnessed violence, experienced loss and lived under constant threat. For some reason, the scars, both physical and mental, have lasted a lifetime. Today, veterans face investigation or prosecution for events that did or did not take place decades ago. They are asked to account for a split-second decision when memories have faded, records have been lost and fellow soldiers, who could speak to them, have passed away. They've lived with years of uncertainty, questioning and public scrutiny. Those who served this country deserve to know that they will not face this ordeal alone. Yet Veterans' NHS Wales receives only £8 per veteran. Will the Welsh Government review the funding of Veterans' NHS Wales, so that the Welsh veterans receive the support they deserve? And will the First Minister take this opportunity to recognise the service and sacrifice of Welsh veterans who served in Northern Ireland?

I recognise absolutely those who have served in the armed forces and those who lost their lives in combat, of course. We are fully committed as a Government to the covenant, which we owe to those who have served in the armed forces. It is important for us to know, when we offer services to veterans, that those services are sustainable. That is part of building the sustainable NHS that I mentioned. On those mental pressures, if you like, that veterans face, as I say, there are those priority services. We have a continued focus on rolling out veteran-friendly GP accreditation, which I think is important. I will remind you also that the programme for government that we have commits to an open access, 'no wrong door' approach to mental health, and veterans very much are able to access this.

I thank the Member for this question. Adopted people in Wales may request an assessment for adoption support services. Where needs continue into adulthood, they may also access wider health and social care support under the relevant statutory frameworks. We continue to work with partners to support adopted people throughout their lives.

Counsel General, for many adopted young people, turning 18 does not mean their need for support disappears; in fact, it can be the point when they need it the most. Adopted young people can face complex challenges around identity, trauma, attachment and mental health, yet as they transition into adulthood, the support available to them can become fragmented, leaving them struggling to navigate adult services at the time they need it. We wouldn't expect a young person to suddenly overcome the impact of early childhood traumas just because they've reached a certain age. So, will the Counsel General clarify whether existing Welsh legislation provides sufficient protection for adopted young people into adulthood, and whether the Government is considering introducing a statutory duty to ensure continuing specialist support up until the age of 25?

The legislative framework recognises that the impact of adoption may well continue throughout a person's life, as the Member recognises, and it does provide mechanisms for adopted people to access certain support services beyond childhood. Local authorities may assess adopted adults for adoption support services and, where appropriate, co-ordinate this with broader assessments under the Social Services and Well-being (Wales) Act 2014. Adult adopted persons may also access support through health, well-being and social care services where they meet the relevant statutory criteria. We continue to work with local authorities, the National Adoption Service and adoption partners to support adopted people and their families across Wales. It's very much a matter for local authorities primarily to ensure that these services are available—that is a hard fact, they should be available everywhere—but also it's their duty to ensure that people know about the access to these very important services. The current framework allows adopted persons to access support through both adoption legislation and, where relevant, as I've said, the wider adult social care framework. Local authorities are able to co-ordinate assessments where individuals have complex or overlapping needs.

I'd like to thank the Member for raising this question and raise a similar issue. Too often, foster children leaving care are not aware of their rights. I recently hosted care-experienced campaigner Sam Gardner to give a question and answer session with Senedd Members here. Sam shared his experience of the foster system, moving between 15 different foster placements and having to research and advocate for his own rights. Sam has six asks of the Welsh Government, and one is for young people leaving care to be made aware of their legal and local entitlement in a clear and accessible way. Currently, this information is a postcode lottery, leaving some care leavers more vulnerable to homelessness or problems with unsupported mental health. What legal advice could the Counsel General give to the Welsh Government on ensuring that there is a legal obligation to make sure that care leavers are aware of their rights and the support services that they can access?

I thank the Member for that question. Adoption support services include advice and information, and local authorities are required to maintain arrangements to provide those services to adopted people and others affected by adoption. The statutory framework places duties on local authorities to provide information, advice and adoption support services. Those duties are intended to help adopted people understand and access the support available to them. Local authorities must appoint adoption support services advisers, whose role includes providing information about available support services and how those services may be accessed.

The Welsh Ministers have a range of legal powers to intervene in devolved public services, and the use of those powers would be assessed on a case-by-case basis. We are committed to working in partnership to secure effective delivery of public services.

You very kindly responded to my questions on this issue before, but what I'm really specifically asking about is what powers the Welsh Government should have in order to intervene in health boards when there is a real challenge to the services that are being delivered. In England, the Secretary of State, since January 2024, has been able to call in NHS service changes and decide on them. In Scotland, major service changes require ministerial approval. Even in Wales, Ministers appointed commissioners to take over the South Wales Fire and Rescue Service, and can direct or challenge school closures. Yet, in Powys, families are simply being asked to accept community beds closing and care moving further from home, and the Government says it cannot weigh in and look at the merits of this decision. Cwnsler Cyffredinol, what advice would you give the Welsh Government on how Wales can gain those powers—the powers that England and Scotland have? Diolch yn fawr iawn.

The law is quite clearly stated, as I mentioned before. I'm not being critical of the Member for raising it again. Clearly, there is a perceived problem, according to her, in Powys. But it is really for the local health boards. They are responsible for planning and delivering services for their local populations, including decisions about how services are configured. The Welsh Ministers expect health boards to make these decisions on the basis of evidence, and with proper regard to quality, safety and patient experience. Welsh Ministers do have powers to provide oversight and, where appropriate, intervene in the exercise of health board functions. But whether intervention is appropriate will depend on the particular circumstances, including any concerns about patient safety, governance, statutory compliance and the decision-making process. Those are the criteria. They're hard and fast, and that is the current law.

Like so many residents across Powys, I'm very concerned regarding the current health board proposals. But unlike other Members, I am more focused on ensuring residents respond to the consultation process than scoring political points. The day-to-day running of healthcare services is the legal responsibility of health boards. Does the Counsel General therefore agree with me that Ministers intervening in this work is legally unviable, inappropriate at a time when the consultation process is ongoing, and risks undermining the authority of the clinicians and healthcare experts who are entrusted to design these services?

As I said just now, the Welsh Ministers' powers to provide oversight and, where appropriate, to intervene are very strictly delineated. They are intended to deal with issues such as governance, performance, patient safety or compliance with statutory duties. They do not ordinarily place Ministers in the role of determining the merits of local service change proposals. Responsibility for developing service change proposals, consulting affected communities, considering representations and reaching a decision rests with the relevant health board. Consulting on service proposals and reaching those decisions is exactly what the health board is there to do. Ministers would not ordinarily seek to pre-empt or to direct the outcome of a live consultation or decision-making process.

It's probably no surprise, but as a Member with Powys in my constituency, I'm going to be asking the same kinds of questions. Counsel General, when a health board proposes cutting hospital beds in rural communities, despite serious concerns from patients, families and local representatives, surely Welsh Ministers should have the power to step in and stop it. That's exactly what we're seeing here with Powys Teaching Health Board at the moment and their proposals affecting hospitals in Ystradgynlais and Llandrindod Wells. These decisions can have devastating consequences for communities that already struggle to access healthcare. If Ministers don't have sufficient powers to intervene, isn't it time they were given them? This Welsh Government cannot keep ducking and diving and telling people that health boards make these decisions independently while expecting the public to hold you to account for the NHS. Surely accountability must come with the power to act.

I can but, again, relate the law. The law is there, it is clear: Welsh Ministers cannot intervene except in those specific examples that I've already referred to twice this afternoon. I understand the Member's concern—of course I do. There is always concern when there is talk of reconfiguration. That is always the case. What is vitally important is that the consultation is allowed to take its course. People should respond in their thousands to the consultation if they feel strongly about it. People from all walks of life have a right to be consulted and they should make their views known. At the conclusion of the consultation process, some decisions will be arrived at. At that time, there will be consideration of whether the consultation was full and fair, as expected, and within the usual guidelines. More than that, I really cannot say. As for the need for changing the law, with regret, I cannot answer that—that would be speculation outside the purview of my office.

Diolch, Lywydd. Good afternoon, Counsel General. The two-week time frame required under Standing Order 29.2 is not merely an administrative suggestion. It's in place to ensure that proper scrutiny of the relevant provisions of UK legislation can be conducted by committees. The Welsh Government's repeated failure to adhere to this time frame impedes proper scrutiny. Counsel General, in light of this, can you provide the Senedd with an update on the clear action planned to be taken by the Welsh Government to ensure that committees are able to effectively scrutinise legislation made by your Government in the interest of fair and accountable governance?

I share the Member's concern. I have been before a scrutiny committee when I heard very clearly this concern. The point is not lightly made; it's a good point, and I hear what he says. The problems of late have probably been because of the King's Speech. A bundle of 16 or 17 different Bills were proposed, many of which affected Wales. There has been a bit of a backlog. It's not a sufficient answer that I'm giving you. We must improve, because if we stymie the work that these committees do, then the whole process in this place will grind to a halt. Now, I fully hear what he says. We are taking active steps to improve the situation. It has not been good over the past couple of months—that, I fully accept. I don't make any excuses, but part of the reason was the election coming so soon, in conjunction with the King's Speech, and that is a big part of the problem. But things are now improving, they will improve, and we have our eye on this matter, because otherwise, as I've said, it will be damaging to the processes within this Senedd. 

Thank you, Counsel General. I know you wouldn't stand there making excuses—I'm quite fully aware of that. But considering Plaid Cymru's fierce commitment to promoting and preserving the Welsh language, which has rightly received support across the Chamber, of course, it remains unclear why the Welsh language versions of statutory texts are repeatedly attracting reporting points concerning inconsistencies between the English and Welsh texts. So, going forward, Counsel General, what is the Welsh Government doing to ensure that translation of statutory texts into the Welsh language are accurate, clear and contribute positively to the accessibility of Welsh law?

There again, I regret to say that the Member is right. There have been problems on that score as well. We are redoubling our efforts now to ensure that there is, obviously, a better service provided. There have been several problems. Some of them, by the way, were nuanced. In other words, the translation may well have been correct, although translation is never as good as the original language—and that's not an excuse being put forward. Yes, there have been failings over the past year or so and we are putting them right. We are going through the various matters that need to be put right, and, looking to the future, we wish to assure the Senedd that we are really looking at this carefully and we will not be countenancing a repeat of what has happened over the last 12 months or so.

I thank you again for your honesty, Counsel General. In light of the often elusive nature of inter-governmental communications between the Welsh and UK Governments, can you commit to ensuring that, where it is appropriate, the Legislation Committee is provided with a clear record of discussions, negotiations and agreements reached on draft legislation? Whilst I do recognise, Counsel General, that the Welsh Government may consider these discussions are subject to privilege, there must be some exceptions to facilitate proper scrutiny. So, basically, to ensure that draft legislation can be scrutinised, of course, it is vital that both the Legislation Committee and the wider Senedd understands the context of these negotiations. So, Counsel General, transparency is of paramount importance if we intend to collaboratively create a clear, cohesive body of Welsh law for the remainder of the seventh Senedd. Would you agree?

Obviously, as the Member says quite rightly, there is some privilege involved, but I would suggest that I take back what he's just said to the appropriate colleague and speak in detail with them, and hopefully, at some other point, come back with a full answer. I don't want to dismiss this in any way; it's an important point and it therefore deserves important attention.

Thank you.

Diolch. Counsel General, last month, on level 7 apprenticeships, you said,

'What I can tell him, which may cheer him up slightly, is that level 7 apprenticeships at the bar and also solicitors are uppermost in this Government's mind. We are pushing forward on them and, indeed, I shall be making a speech on them in about a fortnight's time, during the Legal Wales conference.'

What progress has been made?

Well, a little progress; I made the speech. But it is an important matter, we are looking at it, but, of course, it comes down, at the end, to finance. There is no lack of will to do what's necessary. There are lots of young people now intending to qualify both at the bar and as solicitors, who have been through university, have done excellently and are not able to get a training contract or pupillage. This is, actually, a disgraceful situation. It's not unique to Wales; it's throughout England and Wales. But it's a matter we must address, and it's something that I engaged in various discussions about during that conference last week and I'm hoping that we might be able to take it forward at a quickened pace with the necessary finances in place.

Thank you for that answer. I'm sure we'll return to that next month. What I'll also say, of course, on that, is that you've got approximately £200 million underspent, sitting there available, so you could be looking to use some of that.

But I want to move on to the tribunal system. I know you said it is also high in your priorities, Counsel General. The proposed new Welsh tribunal structure is intended not only to bring existing devolved tribunals into a more coherent system, but also be capable of taking on additional jurisdiction in the future. Before any additional jurisdiction is transferred into the Welsh tribunal system, what safeguards do you believe need to be in place?

That's looking far ahead, actually, but it has been left open for possible future development. My brief is to look at the six current tiers of Welsh tribunals and the appellate tier above them. That is what I'm concentrating on now. Clearly, the Member is right—in the future, at some point, there may be others that might be devolved, and we'd have to consider the safeguards when they are up for discussion. But it's nowhere near on the horizon at this moment in time, nor is it hidden from sight either. It's simply not on the agenda at the moment, and I say that with respect to the gentleman.

Thank you.

Thank you so much, Presiding Officer. Counsel General, in April last year, the Supreme Court issued its landmark ruling in terms of sex, that 'man' and 'woman' refer strictly to biological sex only. Now, that ruling is crystal clear as far as I'm concerned, and anyone else with a shred of common sense will feel the same. Yet I fear certain Plaid Cymru politicians are still trying to get their heads around this. On the International Day of the Girl recently, the Deputy First Minister said, and I quote,

'On International Day of the Girl, we are reminded of the importance of ensuring people in Wales can manage their periods with dignity, confidence and pride'.

Now, Counsel General, I don't profess to be an expert in biology, but it is blindingly obvious that 'people' do not have periods; women and girls do, because to suggest otherwise would be absurd. Following the Supreme Court's ruling, the Equality and Human Rights Commission updated its code of practice, which came into force in August this year. It stressed that single-sex spaces should be just that—single sex. And only last week, NHS England announced it was issuing new guidance that patients should be assigned to single-sex wards based on their biological sex, which is a welcome move for me and my colleagues. So, Counsel General, how are you going to be ensuring the Welsh Government and other public bodies across Wales are following and implementing the law when it comes to protecting the rights of women and girls all across Wales?

Again, that's an important issue and quite topical. We are going to observe the law, and the law is quite plain from the case to which she just referred. And it's a matter of drawing up our policies in accordance with that law. It's my duty to ensure that it does happen. The Government will, I am sure, adhere. I suppose the question is: when is it going to happen? Well, the sooner the better from my point of view, and if I have anything to do with it, which I will, I will certainly speak with colleagues about getting some proper, hard-and-fast policies, and so on, drawn up as soon as possible.

Thank you very much for your response, Counsel General. I do appreciate that.

I want to turn to Plaid Cymru's dangerous plans for independence. Now, Plaid tried to downplay their ambition to rip Wales out of the United Kingdom during the election period in May. But, as soon as the party was in office, the mask slipped, and this is visible to everybody across Wales. The moving boxes hadn't been quite unpacked and already the First Minister was calling up his nationalist pals in Scotland and also Ireland. Next thing you know, the leaders of Sinn Féin, a party deeply tied up to terrorists in the IRA, and the Scottish National Party in Scotland are making their way to Cardiff for a separatist summit, drawing up plans to tear up the United Kingdom.

Now, frankly, I know—and many other people will agree—that independence will be disastrous for Wales. There's no two ways about it. Financially, it will ruin Wales, with an annual deficit of around about £21 billion. It will severely compromise our national security, and it will leave Welsh families financially worse off, costing every resident upwards of £7,000 extra in taxes every single year. Frankly, I believe that we are stronger and much better off in the United Kingdom. So, Counsel General, what legal advice have you provided to Ministers about their independence plans? And for the avoidance of doubt, can you confirm that this Welsh Government does not have the legal competence to unilaterally legislate for independence or call for a binding referendum? And do you agree with me that, given Plaid has no legal standing when it comes to independence, their efforts would be much better spent on tackling issues that they are responsible for, such as NHS waiting lists, educational outcomes and boosting the economy? There's your question.

Well, the Member's had her say. Little of that has any relevance to my job and, therefore, I say with respect that I'm not getting involved in the politics.

The independent inquiry into grooming gangs is, as the Member knows, a statutory inquiry established under the Inquiries Act 2005. The Welsh Government has a dedicated legal team working constructively with the inquiry, providing information, evidence and witness testimony as required, and engaging fully with its processes in relation to devolved responsibilities. 

Thank you. The inquiry has confirmed that it will examine matters involving devolved services in Wales. You started to clarify the legal obligations there placed on the Welsh Government to co-operate with the inquiry. Will this include provision of relevant documents and evidence, and will there be any legislative changes necessary following its findings?

We shall have to wait and see what the findings are, but, meantime, what I can assure the Member—it is an important point—is that we are fully engaged with the inquiry. The Welsh Government has applied for core participation status. The result of that application is awaited on a daily basis, but, even now, there is close liaison between officials of the Welsh Government and the grooming inquiry. There are separate strands to do with Wales and they will be fully addressed, and the whole gamut will be looked at very, very carefully. The list, as I've said, of core participants will be available shortly, but, as I say, we have a dedicated legal team working on it now, and they will continue apace, whatever happens. As for any legislation, we'll have to wait to see what the recommendations are and to evaluate them very carefully. It is a big subject and it's worthy of proper evaluation, and that is what the recommendations will get in due course.

I'm sure you just made a political statement about the strong broadcasting sector required to be devolved, but, okay, I'll forgive you on that one.

Sorry, could you repeat that?

Yes, I thought you'd just made quite a political statement, because she asked you whether you agreed it should be devolved, and you said you did. 

Okay, fair enough. It's obviously currently largely reserved to the UK Parliament, so the question is: how do you assess the implications of such a change with broadcasting to the overall existing constitutional settlement? So, how does that work by taking something out of the constitutional settlement?

Well, if there was to be devolution of broadcasting, then that would be quite a major undertaking. The finances would have to be delivered with it. It's quite a huge undertaking, but it's something that has been talked about for a long time by various commissions and so on, and it's something that this Government is pursuing. It won't happen overnight, but, if it does, what has to be ensured is that such a move would be totally independent of others controlling it, but also, crucially, that all the necessary finances would come this way with it, if you can understand the rather crude language. It would have to be properly financed, otherwise it simply would not work.

As the Member will know, there was a High Court judgment in 2022 that held that the provisions of the Curriculum and Assessment (Wales) Act 2021 in respect of relationships and sexuality education were compatible with the rights protected by the Human Rights Act 1998.

Relationships and sexuality education, as you say, has been a compulsory element of the Curriculum for Wales since 2022. In its own words, the framework covers relationships, rights, equality and diversity. What parents may not be aware of, however, is that education is compulsory and in force in Wales from the age of three, including in funded nursery education. Moreover, unlike previous sex education arrangements, RSE is mandatory until 16, and parents do not have the general right to withdraw. Now, whatever our views on the ECHR may be, we are as lawmakers in the Senedd totally bound by the European convention on human rights. Article 2 of protocol No. 1 plainly states that

'the State shall respect the right of parents to ensure such education and teaching is in conformity with their own religious and philosophical convictions.'

So, quite simply, do parents in Wales actually still have the right to withdraw their children from RSE when it does not conform to their religious and philosophical convictions?

I don't believe there is a decided case on that as such, but there is on the question of withdrawing from sexuality education. That education is meant to be appropriate for the child's age and maturity, and, of course, it's open to the parents also to teach their children about such matters. But in terms of a challenge, the purpose of the mandatory RSE is to keep children safe, to promote respect for others, help them establish healthy relationships and protect them from harmful content and people online. The 2021 Act expressly requires that the children can only be provided with RSE that is appropriate for their children's age and their maturity. 

As for a challenge on human rights matters, in the Isherwood case, Mrs Justice Steyn said that

'the content of the Code and the Guidance is consistent with the requirement to take care to ensure that RSE teaching is conveyed in an objective critical and pluralistic manner, and does not breach the prohibition on indoctrination. There is nothing in the Code or the Guidance that authorises or positively approves teaching that advocates or promotes any particular identity or sexual lifestyle over another, or that encourages children to self-identify in a particular way.'

'In my judgment,'

she said,

'both the Code and the Guidance reflect the general spirit of the Convention as an instrument designed to maintain and promote the ideals and values of a modern liberal democracy, including the values of tolerance, respect and equality.'

And that reflects the current law as we stand.

The Welsh Government is required to comply with equalities legislation within its policy areas. The Equality and Human Rights Commission acts as a regulator for ensuring compliance with equalities legislation across and beyond the public sector in Wales.

Thank you, Counsel General. The last Labour Government introduced a £5,000 grant for teacher training, but it was only available to student teachers from ethnic minorities, not on merit, but purely based on their skin colour. The current Plaid Cymru Government has carried on this scheme. Will the Counsel General agree to publish any legal advice given to the Welsh Government that they've received on this policy, and will he commit to ensuring that the Welsh Government makes any advice public, so that the people of Wales can see how their money has been spent on this piece of anti-white discrimination?

Well, as the Member knows, I cannot agree to publishing any legal advice, that is for sure, but on the general point she makes—again, an important point—the purpose of equalities law is to protect minority groups and those at risk of discrimination and also harassment. This aim fully reflects the Welsh Government's values. On 21 November 2025, the Welsh Government entered into a formal legal agreement with the Equality and Human Rights Commission, EHRC, under section 23 of the Equality Act 2006. This agreement presents a unique opportunity for the Welsh Government to strengthen the approach to assessing equality impacts, ensuring it is embedded consistently across the organisation. This will further build on and strengthen our approach to delivering policy and services for the people of Wales.

The law on this matter is quite clear. Call-in powers are set out in section 77 of the Town and Country Planning Act 1990. Examples of proposals that may be called in are set out in 'Planning Policy Wales'. The Welsh Ministers may call in an application where they deem it appropriate.

Given that several call-in requests for data centre schemes, including the one at the former Ferodo site near Caernarfon, are currently under consideration, what does the legal advice say about the statutory criteria under section 77 of the Town and Country Planning Act and the threshold of 'more than local importance', when issues such as grid capacity, energy demand or the absence of a specific national data centre policy are raised?

Well, I think I'd better be careful here because there is an application that has been received for a call-in on this particular issue. The planning system generally has a national local policy framework to determine applications for energy and other infrastructure projects. There is no specific legislative procedure for considering call-in requests. Powers are granted to the Welsh Ministers under section 77, as the Member knows, to call in where they see fit. And there are examples of the kind of criteria that would support a call-in. Under paragraph 1.35, 'Planning Policy Wales', these are some examples:

'proposals that: are in conflict with national planning policies; could have wide effects beyond their immediate locality; may give rise to substantial controversy beyond the immediate locality; are likely significantly to affect sites of scientific, nature conservation or historic interest or areas of landscape importance; raise issues of national security; or raise novel planning issues.'

Those are the criteria.

New technologies, including smartglasses, can offer benefits and present challenges. Individual operators of public buildings are responsible for developing policies that take account of privacy and of safeguarding considerations that are appropriate to the use of each building and the needs of stakeholders, customers and the staff.

Courts and tribunals have restricted these devices, and, in fact, I've just heard the Cabinet Office banned them last week. I think we've learned that news from this Chamber travels rather fast. In fact, the Member's glasses opposite have been discussed in buildings 200 miles away. All these institutions have concluded that people in those spaces are entitled to know whether they're being recorded. The same question applies to a library, a leisure centre, a GP surgery or even a school, and these are places where people have no reason to expect they are being filmed. I'd be grateful to know whether the Welsh Government considers existing data protection law sufficient for this, or whether it intends to give further guidance to public bodies in Wales.

A tailored approach is needed, given the wide-ranging use and activities undertaken in public buildings. What is suitable in one setting may not be in another, and operators are best placed to make sensible policies based on their own responsibilities as data controllers and according to their individual risk appetite. Swimming pools are likely to be an example where particular care and greater restrictions may well be appropriate. The approach taken in courts and tribunals will be informed by the long-standing prohibition on recordings being made unless special permission has been given. So, local authorities and other public bodies are responsible for their own compliance with data protection requirements and also managing their own security risks. Following our own review of Welsh Government policy, we will consider if there is any guidance we can issue to public bodies.

The independent inquiry into grooming gangs is a statutory inquiry, established under the Inquiries Act 2005. The Welsh Government is working constructively with the inquiry and stands ready to provide information, evidence and witness testimony as required, while engaging fully with the inquiry's processes on matters within devolved responsibilities.

Thank you, Counsel General. Young white women and children in this country were groomed, raped and trafficked, often by groups of mainly Pakistani men over decades. The worst injustice this country has seen, in my opinion. Wales needs its own inquiry. There are strong suspicions that it happened in Swansea, in my constituency, along with many other places in Wales. Section 29 of the Inquiries Act lets Welsh Ministers hold an inquiry into anything they have functions over. So, my question is simple, Counsel General: does the Welsh Government have the legal power to hold its own inquiry into how devolved services in Wales failed these children and young women—'yes' or 'no'?

Yes, but I would suggest that it's prudent now to await the decisions and recommendations of the present inquiry. What may come of that, I know not. It may be that a separate inquiry may be considered. I know not. I do not know. None of us knows what's going to come out of this inquiry. What I do know is that we have a specialist team that are working very, very closely with the inquiry team, and Welsh issues are being raised properly, as they should be. We've applied for core participation status, and the outcome of that application is expected very, very shortly. I can assure the Member—and it's an important point again—I can assure the Member that we are making every possible effort to ensure that the problems that occurred in Wales are properly evaluated, properly researched and are part of the inquiry. For the future, who knows? Let's see what the recommendations will be. But I can assure her that we do not take the issue lightly.

The first thing I should say is that a distinct or separate legal jurisdictions are two separate things. We already have a distinct jurisdiction in Wales in as much as Welsh laws are used in Welsh courts, Welsh judges and so on. A lot of Welsh law has been created within this building. So, to that end, we have a distinct jurisdiction already. Turning to the separate legal jurisdiction, it's an entirely different matter altogether. The Welsh Government supports the formal establishment of a Welsh legal jurisdiction to provide greater legal clarity for practitioners and citizens as Welsh law continues to develop. This would not in practice require a separate judiciary or court system, nor the creation of a separate legal profession, qualifications or regulatory requirements.

What legal advice has the Counsel General provided on the practical implications of moving from the existing distinct body of Welsh law to a fully separate jurisdiction, specifically for the single England and Wales legal profession, cross-border practices, access to justice, and legal certainty for businesses operating on both sides of the border?

Well, I've just answered that question; I've answered that question once. What is proposed would have no effect. What is happening on the ground has no effect on legal practitioners. If I give him an example, when I was at the bar, I was in a court in Manchester on a Monday, Wolverhampton on a Tuesday, Wrexham or Caernarfon on a Thursday and Friday. The regulations applying to children's law were completely different in Wales. But I'm not a genius and I managed it, and I'm sure our colleagues in England will continue to manage it. But the point is that as the corpus juris of Wales is growing, as the separate legal steps being taken within Wales are growing—and will grow, clearly, as we legislate—there will come a time for further consideration, but not a consideration of in any way changing the nature of the legal profession. The legal profession can rest assured—as can, importantly, the people of Wales—that people will be able to come and represent them whether they are in Wales or whether they practice across the border. Provided they're up to speed on Welsh regulation and Welsh law, there will be no bar to them practising.

Could I have a statement from the Trefnydd and the Welsh Government on what efforts are being taken to address rough-sleeping and homelessness in Wales? As we're coming into the winter time, it's becoming very concerning about how many people are sleeping out in horrendous conditions right now, and I'd be grateful if the Government could come forward on what we can do, and, hopefully, we can find consensus around the Chamber to address this, so we don't see more lives lost by rough-sleeping this winter.

We have a shortage of housing available for rent. Houses that were previously privately rented have been converted into Airbnb properties. This housing shortage is made worse by the growth of Airbnb properties. These Airbnb properties take business away from guest houses and hotels; they create parking problems. It's not just a problem of tourist areas; it affects areas with older terraced housing, as well as properties at the seaside. There is control over houses in multiple occupation concentrations to stop areas becoming HMO areas. We need the same for Airbnb. I'm asking for a Government statement on what action they intend to take to control the growth of Airbnb, or are they going to let it just grow and grow?

Trefnydd, I'd like to request a statement from the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality on the Welsh Government's support for people with learning disabilities across Wales. As I mentioned to the First Minister earlier, last week I met with Mencap Cymru to discuss their 'I'm In' campaign, which highlights the importance of GP learning disability registers as a gateway to accessing annual health checks. Of course, it's important that we have access to the relevant data to ensure that people with learning disabilities are accessing these vital health checks.

Another issue raised with me was the increasing difficulties that people with learning disabilities face when trying to access and use cash within their local communities. Now, in my view, organisations that receive public funding should be able to accept cash payments from the public, and access to cash continues to be an important way of promoting independence and inclusion for many people with learning disabilities. Therefore, I'd be grateful if we could have a statement from the Welsh Government on its position on support for people with learning disabilities, including measures to improve access to annual health checks and its approach to ensuring continued access to cash for those who actually rely on it.

I'd like to ask for a statement from the Cabinet Minister for Rural Resilience and Sustainability on the state of dog breeding in Wales and whether the Welsh Government intends to review the current regulatory framework. The RSPCA has raised concerns that dog breeding continues on a considerable scale in Wales and that existing legislation may no longer be fit for purpose. There have also been calls for a review of current laws, a centralised microchipping database, consideration of a national scoring system for breeders and whether a national representative body could provide greater support to responsible breeders. Given the importance of protecting animal welfare, while ensuring that responsible breeders have the support and the clarity they need, can the Welsh Government outline whether it will review the current regulatory framework to ensure it remains effective and fit for purpose and whether it will consider combining and streamlining the regulation into a single piece of legislation?

Prynhawn da, Drefnydd. I'd like two statements, please. Last week I met coracle fishermen from west Wales. They were promoting their very, very unique craft. I don't know if you know—they are very small boats, they carry them on their back, and they only fish at night between Monday and Friday. However, the period of them being able to fish has been massively reduced by Natural Resources Wales. So, could I just ask what the Government is going to be doing in order to protect this important Welsh tradition?

The other statement is with regard to job opportunities for physiotherapy graduates. We're in this terrible place where we've trained physiotherapists and we can't give them jobs, and yet we are crying out for people to have the service of a physiotherapist. So, please, could you tell us what the Government's intentions are to ensure that physiotherapists get the jobs that they need to be able to deliver the services to the people of Wales? Diolch yn fawr iawn, Lywydd.

I ask the Welsh Government for a statement on capital investment into north Wales's civic and sporting infrastructure, specifically regarding the urgent need for a 50m Olympic-sized swimming pool. Currently, Wales has just two 50m facilities—one in Cardiff and one in Swansea; and from Holyhead right along the A55 corridor there is not a single one. Our young, talented athletes and their families are forced to make multi-hour round trips across the border into England several times a week just to train on equal terms with their peers. With 80 per cent of Welsh public pools over 20 years old—and I can tell you that for a fact because I worked in one many years ago—and Betsi Cadwaladr under immense strain, a modern aquatics hub would deliver a vital preventative health dividend and teach life-saving skills.

Will the Trefnydd arrange for the Welsh Government, alongside Sport Wales, Swim Wales and local authorities, to commission a formal feasibility study to finally deliver regional equity for north Wales and commit the Welsh Government to putting an end to years of regional underinvestment, get this project on the table and deliver the fair funding and preventative healthcare infrastructure that the people of north Wales deserve? Diolch.

Trefnydd, 4 November marks a year since the publication of 'Our Bravery Brought Justice'. I know that you will remember how united the whole Chamber was in shock at the failings exposed in that report. So, can I ask that a statement is brought forward by the Cabinet Minister for education, as I'm sure you would agree with me that we all have a duty to make sure—and we owe it to the young people affected to ensure—that all 27 of those recommendations are fully implemented?

Can I note as well the wildfire summit on Thursday? This is of great importance, particularly to those of us who were affected by wildfires in the summer. So, can I ask that the First Minister brings forward a statement after recess to update us on the outcomes and findings of the summit?

The point you make around the 'Our Bravery Brought Justice' report—I hope we can retain that unity that we found a year ago, because, as all of us will recollect, the report reflects the courage of those who contributed to the review, and we recognise the significance as well of the first anniversary of the report. We are working with partners to deliver the outcomes of the review, and progress is being made on ensuring the findings strengthen and improve safeguarding arrangements in education across Wales. And, of course, we will continue to update the Senedd. I'm grateful to the Member for raising this.

Business Minister, can I please request a statement from the Cabinet Minister for health about supporting people with motor neurone disease? I know we've spoken a lot about it today in the Chamber, but, as I'm sure you're aware, motor neurone disease is a devastating and terminal disease that leaves people unable to move, speak, swallow and, ultimately, breathe. There are more than 250 people in Wales who are currently living with MND, and, although symptoms do vary, over the course of the illness most people with MND will be trapped in a failing body, with many losing their ability to walk, speak or live independently within a few months of diagnosis. Only recently, I attended an MND event where we heard from Sophie, who spoke powerfully about her husband Tom, who was diagnosed with MND when he was just 24 years old, and the shocking situation that they're facing when it comes to home adaptations.

My colleague Peter Fox has been a huge advocate for MND, and he recently made me aware that adaptations across local authorities are, sadly, truly inconsistent. The Welsh Government must work with the MND Association and local authorities to make sure that a fast-track home adaptation opportunity is there for people with progressive conditions such as MND as standard practice across Wales, and to remove the means testing for all adaptations, because people with MND should not have to battle with bureaucracy while battling a terminal illness. A Government statement setting out what actions will be taken would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.

I thank the Member for raising an issue that was also raised by Niamh Salkeld. It's an issue that I campaigned on during the last Senedd term, and an issue that many Members will have supported people and their families with, who have been impacted by MND. You will have heard the First Minister's response earlier. Certainly, the Cabinet Minister for housing and local government is also present here and will ensure that—. If there are any constituents in particular, if you can write to the Cabinet Minister, that would be appreciated, because we do have processes in place. The support should be there, as outlined by the First Minister, but we know, as you mentioned, that there is inconsistency there in how quickly those adaptations can be in place. Therefore, any Member that has any further information, so that we can look at this further, I would be grateful if you could share. I think it's a fact that there is cross-party support for such campaigns. Also, I would encourage it, if there is an opportunity for any further scrutiny through, perhaps, committee work. It seems that there are many people who want to see progress in this area in this Chamber.

Can I request from the Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality a statement on how the Welsh Government will work to end the need for foodbanks in Wales? Around a quarter of adults, or 260,000 people in Wales, are going without enough food because they cannot afford it. Last year, over 150,000 food parcels were distributed by the Trussell foodbanks alone, with many more needing food from food pantries and other sources. With the expected huge increase in the cost of living coming in January, I am concerned that this will drive more people to need emergency food aid. Failure to tackle hunger and hardship leads to Wales spending an additional £560 million a year on public services. Overall, public finances and the economy in Wales could benefit by £3.6 billion each year if people were protected from hunger and hardship. Diolch.

Trefnydd, could I request a statement from the Deputy Minister for Transport on the role and future of Great British Railways Cymru? GBR is progressing in England, but while GBR Cymru exists as an entity, there remains a lack of clarity over its purpose, responsibilities and, crucially, how it will fit into Wales's wider transport landscape. We already have Transport for Wales, a wholly Welsh Government-owned operator, that not only runs the Wales and borders rail network, but is also assuming an increasingly significant role in bus franchising. There is also uncertainty amongst rail operators running cross-border services into Wales, many of whom appear unclear about GBR Cymru and how it will interact with both Great British Railways and Transport for Wales, and where the responsibilities ultimately sit.

So, I'd therefore welcome a statement from the Deputy Minister, setting out the intended role of GBR Cymru, how it will align with Great British Railways, and how it will interact with Transport for Wales and rail operators, and whether its creation will result in any changes to the governance, branding or operation of rail services in Wales.

Trefnydd, I would like two statements, please. I've just returned from the Welsh Dairy Show in Carmarthenshire this morning. It was a fantastic showcase of what the industry has to offer here in Wales. But it was also a great opportunity to speak to our dairy farmers and hear directly their concerns. And, on the back of that, I would like an oral statement on the dairy industry in Wales, outlining what this Welsh Government will do, and how it's working with Westminster to ensure that our Welsh dairy farmers are getting the support that they need. 

Secondly, Trefnydd, NHS England has now finally banned biological males from women's spaces, following the Supreme Court ruling that sex means biological sex. I would like an urgent statement from this Government reassuring this Chamber that NHS Wales will soon follow suit, because women and girls in Wales have waited far too long for these basic protections. Diolch. 

Thank you, Llywydd. Trefnydd, at a recent meeting, I heard that delays over Morriston Hospital's access road are holding back proposals for a proposed new emergency department. We understand that much of the planning sits with local government, but where is the ministerial leadership? What has Plaid done to bring the health board, the planning authority, and Natural Resources Wales around one table, agree what remains outstanding for major projects, and set deadlines for resolving them?

Delays have consequences beyond the hospital. Construction work means jobs and spending with local suppliers. Every delay postpones these benefits. The local economy needs investment moving, not paperwork circulating. Plaid promised tangible action from day one. One hundred and sixty-one days later, where is that action for Morriston? Your delivery efforts appear to need resuscitation, just like those of your Labour predecessors, who are now your partners in this cozy budget deal. 

Will the Minister schedule a statement setting out the meetings Ministers have convened, the obstacles still outstanding, and a clear timetable for action? The NHS, its patients, and my constituents need action. Thank you.

Llywydd, today the Senedd comes together as one to mark one of the darkest days in our nation’s history. Sixty years ago tomorrow, a colliery spoil tip of mining waste slid down the mountainside above Aberfan. It engulfed Pantglas Junior School and houses nearby. One hundred and forty-four people died that day. One hundred and sixteen of them were children. 

The events of 21 October 1966 devastated the community of Aberfan. It robbed a generation of its children of their futures in a matter of moments. And for that reason, the tragedy of Aberfan continues to echo down the decades, in that village, across Wales, and further afield. The communities of Wales came together to support the people of Aberfan in their darkest hour. As soon as news of the disaster spread, countless people across south Wales dropped what they were doing and rushed to help with the rescue effort.

I grew up with the story of Aberfan. When the tragedy happened, my father was a young teacher at the primary school in Ynysboeth, just a few miles from Aberfan. He and his colleagues, like so many others, went straight to the scene to see if they could help. Hearing stories of that day is an early memory of mine that left a deep and lasting effect on me. It brought home to me the horror of that day for all those who were there and who lived to bear witness to what happened.

As the scale of the disaster became clear, help and support poured in from across Wales and beyond. There was a determination to help, but also a determination that the terrible loss of life should never be forgotten. I remember vividly the day I came across the plaque honouring those who died at Aberfan near Pont y Borth on Ynys Môn. It again brought home to me the scale of the disaster, that a memorial had been placed there, at the other end of Wales. This touched us all, wherever we were.

The sixth Senedd came together as one to vote for the creation of the disused tips authority for Wales, which will work to reduce the threats from tips in former mining communities right across Wales. Its mission statement is resonant this week in particular: honour the past, protect the present, prepare for the future. Today, we honour the past with a shared determination that we must—all of us—do everything we can to protect all our communities into the future. 

The story of Aberfan will never be forgotten. It is a story of the most terrible loss and grief, but also a story of the resilience of a community over six decades. As a Senedd and as a nation, we stand with that community today, honouring both their loss and their strength in rebuilding a future for themselves.

Llywydd, I first heard the story of that day as a child, and can remember my horror at the thought of others my age going to school without a care in the world and never coming home again to the safety and love of their families. This is a tragedy that each of us carries with us from the moment that we were old enough to understand. This is what it means to keep the memory alive. It lives on in every one of us, and that is why we mark this as a nation.

The depth of its impact is reflected in the fact that Her Late Majesty Queen Elizabeth II visited Aberfan on eight occasions, including in the immediate aftermath of the disaster. This week, the King, Queen and Prince of Wales are set to visit, and I thank the royal family for the respect and commitment they have shown in commemorating Aberfan.

It is often during the very worst of times that we see the very best in people. Sixty years ago, Aberfan, an ordinary Welsh mining village, showed extraordinary courage and resilience, as the First Minister has referred to. As a former teacher and as somebody who has always championed the school staff who do so much for our children, often while feeling underpaid and undervalued, I particularly want to pay tribute to Nansi Williams. Nansi was a dinner lady at Pantglas junior school. She was also a woman of extraordinary courage. Her actions that day saved the lives of five children, but in doing so, she made the ultimate sacrifice. Nansi gave her own life protecting those children, who were later found alive, shielded beneath her body. One of those survivors, Paul Harries, has said that had it not been for Nansi Williams, instead of 116 children dying that morning, the number would have been 121.  

I also pay tribute to Hettie, the aunt of the Deputy First Minister, whom the First Minister referenced in his remarks. And I want to pay tribute to Denise Morgan, who was just 11 years old at the time and whose nine-year-old sister tragically died in the disaster. Denise had been a pupil at Pantglas and was left deeply traumatised, yet, inspired by her teachers and despite all she'd endured, she went on to become a headteacher herself, dedicating her career to giving new generations of children the very best start in life.

Our children are our future. In their innocence, their curiosity and their sense of fun, we place so many of our hopes and dreams for a better tomorrow. But on that day 60 years ago, so many futures were taken from the village of Aberfan in the most unimaginable way. The tragedies left a lasting reminder of just how cruel life can be. Yet, the Aberfan community also showed us what is possible when people pull together, whatever the odds. Villagers stood side by side with dignity. They supported one another, cared for one another and honoured those they had lost. That sense of togetherness can sometimes feel as though it is disappearing. But, across many parts of Wales, it remains strong. We must cherish that community spirit, hold on to it with both hands and never let it go.

There is also a responsibility on us today to ensure that the lessons of the past translate into action for the future. The UK Government has made a multi-year commitment of £118 million over the 2026-29 period to the Welsh Government for disused coal tip safety. That is welcome, but we must go further. I sincerely hope we can take a cross-party approach, working hand in hand with the UK Government, to secure more support. 

The Disused Mine and Quarry Tips (Wales) Act 2025 was an important step,  as the First Minister said, establishing a regulatory framework for the management of disused tips and creating the disused tips authority for Wales, which will take responsibility for tip safety from April 2027. I call on the Welsh Government to do everything it can to support that authority in its work, because the risks have not disappeared. One in 10 households in Wales is within 1 km of a coal tip rated as posing a potential risk to public safety, while households close to the highest risk coal tips have reportedly faced home insurance costs up to 40 per cent higher. This cannot be right and must be addressed.

Finally, I want to take this opportunity to remember another terrible chapter in our mining history, the Senghenydd disaster of 14 October 1913, near Caerphilly, the anniversary of which fell just last week. That disaster claimed the lives of 439 miners and one rescuer.

I want to start by thanking the First Minister for agreeing to my request, made in the business statement some weeks ago, in making this statement in Government time today. Diolch, Brif Weinidog. I am a little bit disappointed, though, that today's item takes the form of a statement rather than a debate, as I think a debate would have given Members the opportunity to speak in a more unconstrained and heartfelt manner on this vitally important topic, and to have had longer to do that too.

Sixty years ago tomorrow, a little after 9 o'clock, around 100,000 tonnes of slurry, debris and waste from a colliery spoil tip engulfed part of the village of Aberfan in the Taff valley just south of Merthyr Tydfil. One hundred and forty-four people were killed. Sadly, there was nothing novel in lives being lost through tragedy in Welsh coalfield communities. I've seen a figure of 6,000 deaths through pit accidents in Wales since the 1800s, a mix of individual loss of life and large-scale incidents where casualties numbered in the hundreds. But there was, of course, something particularly horrific in the sequence of events that affected the close-knit community of Aberfan and in their aftermath.

In part, this is because more could and should have been done to prevent this tragedy. There were warnings that the spoil tips weren't safe. People just weren't listened to. And that was one of the key messages from Sue Bevan, herself an Aberfan survivor, in her excellent play, The Silent Volunteer. I hope that many of us had a chance to see Avant Cymru's performance of this in the Pierhead earlier today.

In part, this was because of how the community was treated by the authorities afterwards, that initial offer from the National Coal Board of just a miserly £50 in compensation for a child's life. We all know the disgraceful scandal of the disaster fund, and I am glad that it was a Welsh Labour Government in this place that finally put that right in 2007. As Prime Minister Andy Burnham recognised when he visited Aberfan yesterday, the community and its residents were not treated properly by the authorities. As MS for Pontypridd Cynon Merthyr, I thank him for his candour.

In part, it was because this was a very modern disaster, the first televised disaster, with images displayed in homes here in Wales and around the world. It is also within living memory—if not for us, then for our parents and for our relations. My mother tells me of her experience working as a secretary in a colliery in Mountain Ash, and being called out from her office with other office staff to the stores to help hand out shovels to the many local men who joined the recovery efforts.

In large part, this was also because of just who the disaster affected. Of those 144 victims, 116, of course, were children. Engulfed in the spoil was Pantglas Junior School. The disaster claimed the lives of five teachers and 109 of the 240 pupils in school that day. Thirty minutes earlier, a day later, the story would have been so very different. As it was, whole classes were lost. Behind those raw numbers we can never forget children who were robbed of their lives, or families whose lives were changed forever.

And finally, it's because of how the local community responded in the face of that unimaginable loss. People came from all over to help, but the greatest efforts were expended by people from the village. Then and since, the community of Aberfan has borne a grief that cannot be measured with strength, dignity and compassion. It is imperative that we do all we can to remember the tragic lessons of Aberfan. Remember them and heed them so similar incidents do not happen again.

First Minister, I hope you will encourage all MSs who are able to to sign the statements of opinion that Lis McLean and I have tabled separately to show that this Senedd remembers Aberfan. However, as David Davies, another survivor and now chair of the Aberfan memorial charity reminds us, recollection must be based on a continued direct connection in the community.

I want to close by drawing out an individual story from that community—as has already been mentioned, that of Nansi Williams, the dinner lady at Pantglas, who used her body to shield children when slurry hit the school. Nansi died, but all five children that she protected survived. A purple plaque will be unveiled to Nansi next week. First Minister, I want to close by asking how we can embed those stories into the curriculum so that the victims of Aberfan and their families will never be forgotten.

The Aberfan disaster was one of the greatest tragedies ever to befall Wales, and it was made all the more heartbreaking because so many of those who died were children. As a parent, I can't imagine anything worse than losing a child, and for a small, close-knit community to lose 116 children and 28 adults is a tragedy that almost defies words. I associate myself wholeheartedly with the First Minister's words and those of representatives from other political parties in this Chamber today, and I send my deepest sympathies to the bereaved families, the survivors and everyone else whose life was forever marked on that dreadful day 60 years ago.

Llywydd, last week at the royal opening of the Senedd, I had the enormous privilege of meeting Gareth Jones, a survivor of the Aberfan disaster. At a time when our headlines are dominated all too often by conflict and violence, Gareth reminded me of the extraordinary goodness that exists in the world, of unsung heroes and simple human decency. We've already heard about Nansi and Hettie, and Gareth told me about Stephen—Stephen Andrew, a caretaker who dragged him out of the window at Ysgol Pantglas, and he would not be alive to tell the tale had it not been for that brave man. He shouted at him then to run, and it was those actions that saved Gareth's life. Tragically, Stephen lost two of his own children in the disaster.

Gareth did run that day, but he has never run away from Aberfan in the memory that he has of what happened to him and to his schoolmates and to his community on that day. Instead, he has spent much of his life since ensuring that future generations never forget. A plea has been made that we must ensure that people's stories are remembered and communicated to children in our day through the national curriculum. I second those calls, because people like Gareth have a story that is powerful to tell and that can remind people of the milk of human goodness and the tragedy that befalls communities when we as politicians and regulators don't act as we should.

During one of the school visits that Gareth did, he met Noah, the great-grandson of Stephen Andrew, the caretaker that rescued him. And last week, both Gareth and Noah were present at the royal opening of this Senedd, where they met Their Majesties the King and Queen and, of course, Gareth told me about his experience of meeting the late Duke of Edinburgh in the days following the Aberfan disaster. Also present, of course, was Len Moss, an off-duty nurse who rushed to help after the disaster and spent two whole days washing the faces and the hands of children recovered from the rubble so that their grieving families could identify them. Those stories, to me, demonstrate the extraordinary acts of humanity in the most dreadful of circumstances.

None of us who didn't experience Aberfan can really comprehend the suffering that that community has endured. I was very moved by the accounts of surviving children who felt unable to play normally in the years after the event for fear that their laughter would upset neighbours who'd lost their own children. But the stories, First Minister, of survivors like Gareth, are incredibly important, especially as the years pass, and it's more vital than ever now, I think, that we ensure that those voices are preserved, and I do ask what action the Welsh Government is going to take in order to ensure that that is the case. 

I did see that very powerful play this morning, which has already been referred to, and I wish that that would be a play that everyone in Wales could watch, so powerful was its message, and I think it's a message that can be heard by people of all generations and ages, actually. I think that these are the sorts of issues that we need to take forward, really, as a Senedd, as a nation, to ensure that we foster the memory of what happened that day and that we take positive action in the future to prevent similar tragedies.

We've already talked about the cross-party work that has been done on the Disused Mine and Quarry Tips (Wales) Act. There's still work to do in terms of toxic land, contaminated land, which so recently has been in the news. We owe it to the people of Aberfan to make sure that we learn lessons from the past and that we do everything that we can to prevent a similar tragedy occurring in the future. 

The First Minister to respond to the opening contributions. 

Yes, we must all come together to seek justice for the communities and to honour those who died and who lived with the consequences of that horror for so many years, and continue to do so. We must, all of us, be willing to do what it takes to honour that memory. We must, through the work of the disused tips authority, double down on the need to put right the injustices faced by post-industrial communities dealing with the legacy of industry. That includes very much the contaminated land. It includes the remains of mining, slate and other long-gone industries.

But we remember so, so many—countless—people, whose names may have long disappeared from our collective memory, but whose response on that day, in small ways, contributed to showing what we are as a nation, which came together as one community on that day 60 years ago.

I am a Merthyr girl, and I just want to say before I read this that I am shocked, surprised and upset by any reference to any party political stuff when we talk about Aberfan, because it just isn't relevant. But I want to say this: having lived all my life in Merthyr Tydfil, I have often been asked about Aberfan. Wherever I go, whenever people hear where I am from, they immediately think of the terrible tragedy. For many years, that was the only story that people knew about Aberfan and the outside world. 

My own memories are of my parents' sadness and of my father being called to send every man and machine that he could to Pantglas school. It was only many years later that he actually said that that was the worst day of his life. Sixty years on, we will never forget the 116 children and 28 adults who lost their lives, nor the families who have struggled.

But Aberfan is so much more than its tragedy. My daughter and grandchildren—Joseff and Nansi, as it happens—call Aberfan their home. I see a warm, welcoming community, full of kindness, talent, resilience and pride. Aberfan will always carry its history, and we must remember those who were lost, honour their memory and cherish all that Aberfan is today.

But would the First Minister and all Members in this Chamber today, whatever party you're in, agree with me in saying that Aberfan should never be defined by tragedy alone, and that its greatest strength lies in its people, their determination and tenacity, and the wonderful community that they continue to build for future generations?

Diolch. I know how difficult it is for Lis and others to speak and to remember, but I know how determined they are, also, to never forget. As I said in my opening remarks, and I agree very much with the Member, this is the story of a community that faced unspeakable tragedy, but that refused to be defeated. That community, to this very day, remains an inspiration to us, and let us all, in our grief tomorrow, take inspiration from the way that Aberfan and its people have responded.

First Minister, 60 years ago, we know that 144 lives were lost in Aberfan, and 116 of those were children. Now, I cannot comprehend what it must be like to send your child off to school and not have them return. For the families, the survivors and the community of Aberfan, the pain of that day will never go away.

Now, as one of the Members representing this community in this Chamber, I know that Aberfan is not simply a tragedy recorded in our history books. It's a community that carries the scars of what happened that day, and will do so for the rest of time. I had the honour yesterday of attending the University of South Wales, where the last remaining survivor, Jeff Edwards, gave a talk—a powerful account of loss, of grief, but also the fight for justice after the event itself, and the events that the community had to go through to get that justice.

First Minister, remembrance must be about more than words. It must also be about responsibility and ensuring that those lessons are never forgotten. So, 60 years on, what assurances can you give the families of Aberfan that the lessons of that terrible day remain at the heart of how we protect our Valleys communities today? And can I have your assurance that the physical coal tip remediation will receive priority, and can you please outline how the remainder of coal tips at risk across Wales are to be made safe? We owe those 144 souls and the families nothing less. Diolch.

When this Senedd legislates, we take on a joint commitment to ensure that that legislation is acted upon. The Disused Mine and Quarry Tips (Wales) Act 2025 was absolutely about giving that assurance that we will use what we can do as a Parliament to legislate, to use the powers that we have to give assurances to communities. That doesn't mean it's 'job done', it means that the foundations are in place, and when the disused tips authority comes into force in April 2027, we then move into a new phase of making sure that, absolutely, this is exactly what we do: we act in a way that gives confidence to the communities the length and breadth of Wales and that we understand the anxiety that they face from day to day.

But, again, in responding to the wider point made by the Member, he reminds us that we are gathering here in memory of a community today in all its meanings. A community is a place, yes, but more than that, community is the people within that, and it's shoulder to shoulder with the people of Aberfan, present and past, that we stand in these days of remembrance.

I associate myself with all of the remarks made, and on behalf of the Welsh Liberal Democrats, I pay honour to those who have died, those who have lost members of their family and have been affected and continue to be affected.

I was honoured this morning to attend the performance of The Silent Volunteer. It was a very moving performance, and one thing that struck me was the replication of the sound of the thundering slurry rushing down the hillside towards the school. It brought home the terrifying reality of that day, after a week of rain, and the devastation suffered by the community. At the end of the performance, one word stood out for me, which was 'undod'—unity. That was on a banner that the performers held up. And as politicians, we have a responsibility to come together, as we have done this afternoon, to listen to communities and to learn from the past. We must honour those who died, not only through remembrance, but through our actions going forward. Diolch.

Llywydd, the story of Aberfan is woven into the collective memory of our Valleys. My grandfather, like so many others, walked over the mountains from Penrhiwceiber that day to help. That instinct to come together, to care for one another and to act when people need help has shaped how I think of Aberfan. Recent pieces this week, such as Aberfan: The Village That Fought Back, The Silent Volunteer and Aberfan: A Family Story are powerful reminders across different mediums that Aberfan is not only a story of tragedy, but of a community that fought and fights for justice and refused to be ignored.

Yesterday, speaking at the University of South Wales, Jeff Edwards, as we mentioned, the last schoolchild rescued from the rubble, spoke powerfully about his experience and the lessons that could never be forgotten. The courage and resilience of survivors, families and campaigners and the determination to hold powerful institutions to account are the extraordinary part of Aberfan's legacy. First Minister, do you agree that one of Aberfan's most enduring lessons is the power of communities standing together, not only in the face of tragedy, but in the pursuit of justice?

Very much so, Llywydd. We're having a sense this afternoon, aren't we, that we all have a different relationship with that tragedy in Aberfan, but that it is something that is relevant to all of us. It might be family, it might be a moment spent with somebody who was there, it might be a parent, it might be a sense of watching, maybe from afar, but a sense of feeling very much at one with the people of Aberfan in thinking of their tragedy. But, yes, this is a community that had to wait far, far too long for justice. The placing of unstable heaps above a village and then the taking of funds for the remediation from that community are injustices that cause scars that will run deep. But it is by supporting that community and all of us somehow taking ownership of that sense of community between us that we can—again, I make the case—make that pledge that we never ever allow this to happen in this way again.

Like Lis, I was brought up in Aberfan and had many friends who were there that day. So, today, we pause with heavy hearts to remember the lives lost in Aberfan's disaster. Sixty years on, the pain of that terrible day remains deeply felt by families, friends and the community whose lives were forever changed. We remember the children whose lives were taken far too soon, the adults who lost their lives and all those who witnessed such unimaginable grief. Aberfan was not simply a tragedy in history; it was a community's heartbreak and a reminder of how precious every life is.

Today we honour those who were lost, remember all those who carry on and hold the families and people of Aberfan in our thoughts. May the memories never fade, may the compassion, courage and strength shown in the aftermath continue to inspire us. We will remember them, we will grieve and we will never forget. That's all I ask of this place: that we never forget. Thank you.

I'm grateful for a thoughtful tribute, and, briefly, Llywydd, it is an important message that we never forget. The sixtieth anniversary only takes us on to the sixty-first and the sixty-second, because the memory of what happened in Aberfan must always drive us forward to remember the resilience of a community, what they faced and what we still owe them today.

First Minister, I commend and thank you for your statement today and all Members for their powerful contributions. To their credit, and to this day, leaders from across Wales, across the UK and from around the world continue to visit Aberfan to commemorate our loss and to give comfort to the community. The visit of the Prime Minister yesterday had a special resonance for him given his experience of the Hillsborough disaster. Hillsborough was a formative experience for him, because officialdom contributed to the making of the disaster and then sought to cover up the cause. It's with great regret that we reflect that the Aberfan disaster could have been averted if officialdom had listened to the local community. May we never forget the lives that were lost. May we never forget the families who continue to carry their memory and may the story of Aberfan continue to remind us of the value of every life, the strength of community and the importance of compassion. Their memory remains part of the story of Wales and their loss will never be forgotten.

First Minister, in your view, how else, what more can we do to remember them through the curriculum and through wider civic society? Would you agree perhaps to invite ideas and suggestions for deepening our remembrance from members of the public? Diolch.

I appreciate the message from the Labour leader, and I am somebody who has always felt that we need to ensure that our children know our story, know our history, and our history has many facets to it. We have a proud industrial history, we have a legacy of real pain from that industrial history too, and absolutely, I know, and I speak for my education Minister in saying, that we always look for new ways of ensuring that, through our education system, we can make sure that our young people are equipped from knowing their past to prepare for their futures.

Yes, officialdom let the people of Aberfan down. It is our privilege in Government and within the wider public sphere in Wales that we are tasked with making sure that we use the tools of officialdom to build a better and more secure future for the people of Wales.

Thank you, Minister, for introducing this Bill. In your statement you say that the consultation received detailed responses from taxpayers, professional bodies and industry representatives. However you didn't say how many responses the public consultation received. I have the answer—it was nine. And of those nine, up to only four were individual Welsh taxpayers—four—four in a population of 3.2 million. This is hardly the wide-ranging ringing endorsement your statement would have us believe. I got more responses from exposing the Welsh Government's whisky-tasting trip to France.

Moving on to the details of this legislation, I am concerned about the new powers being gifted to the Welsh Revenue Authority. Under current rules, the Welsh Revenue Authority generally needs either the owner's agreement or approval from an independent tribunal before inspecting private premises, however, this Bill would allow the Welsh Revenue Authority to carry out certain landfill tax inspections without either form of approval. We are talking about Welsh officials without independent approval entering privately owned land and premises, potentially without the occupier having prior knowledge of the inspection. Removing an existing layer of independent scrutiny is a big change and one that needs justification. Could you explain what evidence demonstrates that removing prior tribunal approval is necessary? Also, what safeguards will ensure that inspections are justified and proportionate and stay within the limits of their powers, especially when carrying out unannounced inspections on private land when the occupier may not be present? 

Beyond the inspections, the Bill would also allow the Welsh Revenue Authority to share more taxpayer information with local authorities and their service providers, withhold certain tax repayments during inquiries, and request information after property transactions. While the Bill includes safeguards and appeal rights, questions remain about how these additional powers will operate in practice. What safeguards will ensure that confidential taxpayer information is only shared where necessary?

The Bill will also allow the Welsh Revenue Authority to withhold certain tax repayments to people while an inquiry is ongoing. If the Welsh Revenue Authority is meant to pay tax back to someone, they have wider powers to withhold that payment, potentially for years, before actually having to pay it out. It would also allow the Welsh Revenue Authority to request information about certain property transactions years after they have taken place. How will taxpayers be protected from lengthy delays to legitimate repayments, and how will the Welsh Revenue Authority ensure that information requests remain proportionate? Diolch, Lywydd.

Llywydd, consultation is not a numbers game; it can often be about the detail of the consultation. It's not a surprise to me that there were few responses to this consultation that was held last year. The Bill itself, as I explained, is technical in nature. The people who will be particularly interested in this Bill are going to be those people who are representatives of taxpayers, who deal directly with the Welsh Revenue Authority on a number of the aspects that you've outlined.

The powers that are being sought in this Bill are proportionate to the issues that have raised themselves as issues, both by the Welsh Revenue Authority itself over the last nine years, and by those people representing taxpayers, where there have been inconsistencies in the system that have existed, where there are obviously grey areas and gaps in the legislation, as they are currently. The powers on access, as you've outlined, are, I believe, proportionate, but that's for committees of this Senedd now to test, and I'm sure that these will be issues that will be tested in scrutiny.

Sharing information isn't a bad thing in itself. I think, quite often, that people out there expect public authorities to be sharing information, rather than information needing to be duplicated at all times to different places where they interact with the public sector. But, as you've rightly challenged, it needs to be done in a way that is proportionate to the issues that are at stake and where data and those who hold data are accountable for that. We have tested the proposals in the Bill with the various pieces of legislation that are in place to guard on data protection, and we believe that we have struck the necessary place to provide a system that is more effective for the taxpayer in how they provide information to public authorities and enable a more effective system to be delivered.

That's the purpose of this Bill, to make sure that how we administer and operate taxes in Wales is more efficient for the taxpayers and those who collect taxes in Wales. I think that that's a good thing to aim for, and, hopefully, the scrutiny process on this Bill will enable us to, ultimately, pass a piece of legislation that improves on tax administration in Wales.

In Government, Welsh Labour laid the foundations of Wales's devolved tax system. Our taxation policy was based on the clear principles that Welsh taxes should raise revenue to fund public services as fairly as possible; that they should be clear, stable and simple; that they should be developed through collaboration; and that they should contribute towards the goals of the Well-being of Future Generations (Wales) Act 2015. It is against these principles that Welsh Labour will hold this legislation to account as the Bill progresses.

In Government, we established the Welsh Revenue Authority and introduced land transaction tax and landfill disposals tax in 2018. Since then, as the Minister said, the Welsh Revenue Authority has collected more than £2.7 billion to support public services in Wales. Welsh Labour showed how devolved taxation can be used to deliver progressive outcomes, including driving up rates of recycling, and making the taxation system fairer for people buying homes. And in 2021, we made the promise not to raise Welsh rates of income tax, and we kept that promise. We also recognise that taxation policy needs to evolve, so we welcome the intention of this legislation, to ensure that devolved taxes in Wales can be collected fairly and efficiently.

Thank you, Cabinet Minister, for advance sight of your statement here today, and for a briefing with your officials earlier today as well. Of course, it's the first piece of legislation that this new Government has laid so far in this Senedd, and I appreciate Members may not be clamouring for passionate debates on this particular Bill here today, but I think both the letter and the spirit of what is being intended is really important to understand.

In your statement a few moments ago, the words that you used were that this Bill

'delivers a package of narrowly targeted technical and administrative changes' 

to the relevant Welsh tax Acts. This seems slightly at odds with the First Minister's statements in July, when he described this Bill as continuing Wales's tax devolution journey. And I was a little surprised to hear your second sentence today say that

'this package of changes represents the next stage in Wales's tax devolution journey.'

So, I wonder if you'll be able to respond in a moment to outline how you see the spirit of this Bill. Is it, as you opened up by saying, the next stage in Wales's tax devolution journey, or is it, as you later described, a package of narrowly targeted technical and administrative changes? I think understanding the spirit of this is important to understand how you see the future of taxation and taxation Bills here in Wales.

I wanted to pick up the point that Huw Thomas mentioned in regards to some of these savings. I had the joy of reading through the RIA recently as well and noted some of the potential savings that this Bill will produce—or efficiencies, whatever word you'd like to use. But I wonder if you could respond as to your expectations as to how any savings may be used. Would it be to reinvest in similar services or similar pressure points within Government, or would you expect that saving to be used elsewhere within Government? Because, of course, delivering on value for money is an important part of your role here in the Welsh Government.

Also, Cabinet Minister, I’ll pick up a point that Cai Parry-Jones mentioned in regard to unannounced inspections. Forgive me if you responded specifically on this, but I'm not sure that I heard it. I wonder if you are able to clarify my understanding that the proposals would bring the WRA in line with powers available to HM Revenue and Customs in England around those unannounced inspections for LDT sites in Wales. Diolch yn fawr iawn. 

Thank you for those issues. I probably over-egged it in my second sentence in trying to seek that headline in describing this piece of legislation, because I see it primarily as a piece of legislation that reflects on what's happened over the last 10 years, as we've introduced taxation and used devolved taxes in Wales, as we've set up the operation of the Welsh Revenue Authority, and about how, over that period, there has been a recognition of where amendments need to be made in order to operate the tax system more effectively. So, it is about the operation of the current taxes that we have in place.

There will be many here who believe, as I do, that there should be further devolution of pieces of taxation powers to this Senedd, but this Bill is not about that. This Bill is about the effective administration of the taxation powers that we do hold. I hope that, whatever our different views in this Chamber would be on devolution of further taxation powers, in the effective administration of the current taxation powers that we have, we can all unite to try and create a system that is as effective as it possibly can be.

In terms of any savings and any more effective work that would release more savings into the system, my initial reaction to the question from you is to think that they are minor in significance of money that would be provided by those savings, so I suspect that, in the main, they will be part of strengthening and reinvesting in the means of effective collection of taxes.

On unannounced inspections, you are right that the powers that we are seeking in this Bill on unannounced inspections for LDT would merely bring us in line with the powers currently in place in England under HMRC, and also in Scotland, so we are merely replicating those powers.

Minister, thank you for your statement today. Section 4 would allow the Welsh Revenue Authority to withhold certain tax repayments while an inquiry is ongoing. Your own explanatory memorandum acknowledges that some inquiries can take months, or even years, potentially creating cash flow difficulties for taxpayers. Beyond the existing appeal right, will you commit to clear, published service standards for these inquiries, and to reporting how long repayments are being withheld, so that small businesses and taxpayers are not left facing prolonged uncertainty?

The power to withhold payment pending investigation is a power that the WRA has sought in order to enable it to withhold, if it deems that necessary, while an investigation is being conducted. On the point that you have made in terms of ensuring that there is good and effective clarity and guidance as to when and how that power to withhold will be used, I think that that's a very sensible point. I'm sure that it's one that has already been considered. I'll certainly take it away in terms of asking the right questions on your behalf in terms of how a power such as this would then be put into use.

Diolch, Lywydd. Cabinet Minister, your Government's own impact assessment estimates that this Bill will cost an additional £422,000 over 10 years, while claiming only £2.6 million in benefits. But much of those supposed savings are simply staff time being freed up, rather than actual money being saved for taxpayers. And when it comes to additional inspections of businesses, your assessment dismisses the disruption as negligible, without even putting a financial figure on it.

Can you tell us how much of that £2.6 million will actually translate into reduced public spending? What assessment have you made of whether those additional powers and administrative costs are genuinely necessary? Because taxpayers deserve real savings, not just theoretical efficiencies on what appears to be a spreadsheet whilst the cost of government keeps growing. 

This is about making the tax system that we have clearer for all concerned, so that the rights that people have in the context of a tax system are made clear, as well as the responsibilities that they have to pay tax in accordance with the law of the land.

As I explained earlier, in terms of the unannounced inspections that I think you were referring to, that is a power that's already operational in England and in Scotland under their taxation regimes on LDT, and therefore I think it's a proportionate measure that we're taking. The costs involved in this legislation are minimal, as are the benefits: £2.6 million you referred to, over 10 years; they're not significant amounts of money. The purpose of this legislation is not to raise funding for public services further than currently, but it is to make a tax system that is more rigorous and more operationally effective than it currently is.

These kinds of changes in the tax system, in the context of the UK Government, are introduced as part of the orderly rota of UK finance Bills that come every year, every budget, and these types of small changes are put into the annual UK finance Bill. In this context, we've created a Bill that has happened now, and it's the first time, in the first nine years of this Senedd's responsibility for taxation, and therefore it's a collection of various aspects of work that both the WRA and taxpayers themselves, or those people representing taxpayers, have found to be areas that need to be either strengthened, clarified or changed as a result of the practice of taxation in Wales over the past nine years.

Social care is too often treated as a hidden service, appreciated only by people whose families or lives have reached a point of crisis. Only then do people come to realise the value of care work—work that keeps our society afloat, the hours dedicated by carers, both paid and unpaid, that make people’s lives better, allowing them to live full and fulfilled lives. It isn’t always easy to capture in graphs or spreadsheets, but millions of actions every day make miracles of the daily lives of people living around us. Too often, it isn’t noticed. That has to change. I'm determined that it will change. I'm pleased today to set out the next stage of our journey towards a national care service for Wales—a stronger, fairer and more consistent system of care and support, built around people and their lives.

It's vital that we do this, because demand for adult social care continues to increase at unprecedented levels, with more people seeking support and with needs becoming increasingly complicated. In July this year, local authorities recorded 20,149 social care contacts: the highest number of contacts on record, representing a 23 per cent increase on the number of contacts reported in July last year, a 67 per cent increase on the number of contacts in July of the year before that.

Yet, despite these challenges, local authorities and partners across Wales continue to support growing numbers of people. The dedication of our social care workforce is clear to us all. But this also shows why sustained change is needed if we are to meet future demand. The national care service programme is about strengthening social care, reducing unacceptable variation, supporting our workforce and improving outcomes and experiences for people and communities across Wales. Above all, it's about creating a system that works around people, rather than expecting people to work around the system.

Our programme is built around six key foundations. First, we will implement clear national leadership, accountability and safeguarding. We will work with partners across Wales to improve consistency, strengthen accountability and take forward our ambitions for a national conversation on shaping our social care services. 

Secondly, I turn to fair funding and reliable care. We will strengthen commissioning, improve market oversight and build the evidence needed to inform future funding policy decisions. We will work towards fairer and more consistent arrangements across Wales, helping to improve affordability and access to care and support. This will help create greater consistency, transparency and confidence in how care and support are planned, commissioned and delivered.

Thirdly, Dirprwy Lywydd, is a valued and sustainable workforce. Social care workers support thousands of people every day through their commitment, their professionalism, their compassion. Care is not always something easily caught in traditional metrics or measures, because it surpasses them all. The work of care workers is what gives people's lives meaning. They bring companionship, solace and, yes, joy, to thousands upon thousands of people. They deserve more than thanks. They deserve their work to be recognised in how they're paid, the career progression and development that's available to them, and in how they're esteemed by society. This Government is committed to strengthening recruitment and retention for social care, maintaining the real living wage as the minimum rate paid to the workforce and progressing our ambitions for fairer pay. We will also develop a national social care academy to help people enter the profession, develop their skills and progress their careers. Now, Wales is ahead of our neighbours in this work. It is something we should take pride in.

People don't experience their lives in silos through separate organisations, budgets or professional boundaries. They should not have to navigate those boundaries to receive the right support. We will take forward the Ynghyd 2030 programme for children and families, strengthening pathways of care and continuing to improve integration between health and social care through our integrated community care system. We'll also encourage innovative models of care that support communities and improve people’s experiences of care and support.

Dirprwy Lywydd, over this Senedd term, we intend to make substantial progress across the programme. This will include taking forward Stronger Safeguarding for a Safer Wales, developing the national social care academy, strengthening commissioning and regional collaboration, improving intelligence and market oversight, enhancing support for unpaid carers, progressing fair pay ambitions and developing the evidence needed to inform future decisions. This programme will not complete our journey towards a national care service, but it sets out practical steps we can take now and provides the foundations and the evidence needed to continue that journey with confidence.

Ultimately, its success will not be measured by the structures we create or the documents we publish. It will be measured by whether people can access the right support at the right time, whether unpaid carers feel recognised and supported, whether our workforce feels valued and whether people can live independently, safely and with dignity for longer. That is our ambition: a people-centred national care service, shaped by Welsh values and built with the people and communities it exists to serve.

Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer. Can I thank the Minister for her statement this afternoon? As you're very well aware, I have always been against the establishment of a national care service, for reasons I won't go over again because you've heard them 100 times and they are a matter for the record.

You mentioned the people who work in social care, and I absolutely agree with you, they do deserve more than thanks. You've celebrated, along with a lot of politicians in here, that we pay social care staff the real living wage. We need to go further than that. If we want to see more social care staff in the system, they need to be paid more than the real living wage. So, I'd like to know from you, when is this Government going to put a proper pay structure in place to make sure that our social care staff are paid appropriately? One way in which we think you could do that is by integrating social care into the health system, something that I've advocated for for a long time. I'd like to hear: is that something that you and the Cabinet Minister for health are looking closely at?

Your statement also highlighted equitable and high-quality support across the country, and I think it is very important that we do have equitable care across the country, but we all know the challenges of delivering social care in rural areas, and that didn't come through in your speech. Can you explain to me and the rest of the Members in this Chamber what is the Government doing to ensure that we have good-quality social care in rural areas? We know that is an exceptionally difficult place to recruit our social care staff, so I'd like to know what the Government is doing around that.

You did mention in your statement fair funding, but one thing I didn't hear right the way through it was how much funding you're actually going to provide as well, so it would be quite useful to know, as part of the budget discussions that are going on with the Cabinet Minister for Finance, how much money you're allocating to the national care service, as the Cabinet Minister walks in through the door. [Laughter.] We're going to find out how much money you're going to give, Cabinet Minister, to the national care service, and how much you're allocating to this area of policy, because I think that's something that is very interesting to know and not something that you raised in your statement.

You also raised unpaid carers as well, and I think they are actually the unsung heroes of our care system across the country. We all know that they save our NHS, not just millions but billions of pounds, and if we actually had to start paying them for the work that they're doing looking after their loved ones, it would bankrupt the Welsh Government, and I'm pretty sure it would bankrupt the UK Government as well. So, I'm interested to know what extra support you're going to put in place for them, because you did mention, as you went through, community-based services, and I'm sure I'm not the only Member in my area that has actually seen those day-centre services being removed from local government control because they can't afford to run them anymore. So, there is a bit of joined-up thinking that needs to happen here, isn't there? If you talk about strengthening community-based services, that means our local authorities have to be funded properly to provide those services as well, because if they haven't got the money to provide them, it puts more pressure back on the people who are caring for people at home.

You also mentioned prevention, and it is important that we keep people in their homes for as long as possible, because we do know that that does take pressure off the care service. But as someone who was a local government cabinet minister in a previous life, I also know about the disabled facilities grant, which is actually always overspent in local government. And I'm just interested, from your perspective, how much money, working with the Cabinet Minister for local government, you're putting into this area, because if you are talking about prevention, you need to make sure the measures are in place in people's homes to make sure they can stay there for longer and to make sure they can actually get around their own home.

What else did you talk about? You talked about an awful lot today. You raised also the national social care academy. This is something that's actually quite an exciting piece of work—I think there is something that could be developed here—but I'd like to actually know when this academy is going to be developed, because the contract is still on Sell2Wales, and we all know how long things take to move through the sausage machine in Welsh Government, and it's probably going to take an awful long time for this to be developed. So, from yourself, I'd like to know, when do you see that national care academy coming online? Because if there's anything to go by by Government contracting, we're actually not probably going to see it for another three to four years, which I'd actually think would be a big shame, if we're trying to get more people into the profession.

And finally, about Senedd scrutiny, I think it is very important, as this piece of work goes through, that the Senedd is given more opportunity to scrutinise this. I know the Chairman of the health committee is in the Chamber here, and I'm sure this is a piece of work they will be looking into. So, I'd just like to know, will you be committed to providing regular updates to the Senedd on the development of this national care service to make sure all Members across the Chamber have got the opportunity to scrutinise you about the accountability, the funding that's going to go into it, and ultimately the delivery? Because that's the way—. I keep saying to this Government, 'Talk is cheap, but delivery is more', and you said at the start that our social care staff across the country deserve more than warm words, and they need action, and they do need it now. So, if you can answer some of my questions, I'd be very grateful. Diolch.

Diolch, James. I appreciate what you said at the start, that you haven't perhaps supported the idea of a national care service, but what I would hope, and I think lots of us would hope about a national care service, is that this is building towards—. I mean, I'm not pretending for a moment that this represents this in its entirely, but that a national care service would be greater than the sum of its individual parts. And the individual parts here—. I would hope, from what you've said, there would be support for some of those, regardless of how they're packaged, the individual elements—

The devil is in the detail.

You asked about the workforce, certainly, and I certainly agree with you that the real living wage must be the minimum that we should be paying. I think it's 84 per cent—well, the most recent figures, which obviously aren't completely up to date, suggest that 84 per cent of the workforce currently is being paid the real living wage. Obviously, there's more still to do. I think it's 60,000 social care workers, including personal assistants, that are scoped to receive the real living wage. We want to go beyond that, so we are progressing fair pay agreements for the workforce, and we've worked really closely with the UK Government to ensure that provisions in the Employment Rights Act 2025 were extended to Wales for that.

And you had mentioned that we need to make sure that social care workers are not at a disadvantage compared with their counterparts in the NHS, and I think that's something that certainly we would be looking to address through those bodies, because, often, social care workers are competing with sectors like retail and hospitality in terms of the pay that they currently get, and those professions would be far less intensive in terms of the roles, and so we need to be making sure that we are truly valuing this vital work.

You mentioned as well the need to make sure that rural areas are—. Basically, that there isn't a postcode lottery, which is, obviously, something that we would all agree with. In terms of some of the elements of what I've announced today that would help to address that concern, which I think is a really worthy concern, well, for example, the social care intelligence hub, that's going to help strengthen planning and to identify risks and pressures in different parts of Wales to see, 'Okay, so what needs to be addressed here in terms of strengthening commissioning as well?', again to spot different patterns to make sure that there is more of a truly national envelope of support that is available, because, at the moment, too many people are at the mercy of just individual decisions, which will vary hugely in different parts of the country, and we want to streamline as far as possible. I've said this before: anyone designing the social care system from scratch would not design it as we have it at the moment, but, obviously, we need to work with partners in local government, work with partners in the Association of Directors of Social Services. Everyone wants to work together to see what we can do to make this better.

You asked about unpaid carers as well, and, yes, certainly, we owe them far more than just words. We owe them a better life, because they do save government and they save society billions of pounds. We are going to be publishing the new national strategy for unpaid carers in November, which is going to be setting out a number of areas, including tying in our response to the previous Senedd's Health and Social Care Committee's report. That's going to be looking at improving carers' assessments, access to respite, support for carers to stay in paid employment, and there'll be a particular focus on young carers as well. The day centre services—it's something I've been really concerned about in the past as well. And I know, obviously, that this is a decision for individual local authorities. It is something I'm very interested in, and I've certainly heard testimony from a number of people about the effect that that can have on their lives.

You asked about prevention and the ways in which my colleague the Cabinet Minister for Health and Care and I would be working with the Cabinet Minister for local government. There are a number of grants, like the regional integration fund and other grants, that look at how we can invest in a greater way in prevention, and it's something that we are really keen to take forward.

And finally—oh, no, penultimately—on the academy, there will, certainly, and I'll be able to publish more information on this shortly, I hope, in terms of the elements of this that are going to be coming—I don't like the phrase 'coming online'—that are going to be becoming delivered then, as this progresses. It is something really exciting though, and it's something where we are leading the way. There are already lots of local academies across Wales, so lots of this already exists; we just want to bring it together into a national system, delivered locally.

And finally, yes, I am very happy to commit to regular updates on this. Diolch.

Diolch, Deputy Minister, for your statement today, and this is something that so many of us in this Chamber care so deeply about. Care and support services should enable people to live their best possible lives and most independent lives. And with that in mind, I want to recognise the extraordinary contribution made, day in, day out, by our social care workforce and the army of unpaid carers. Their compassion, their dedication and their hard work cannot be overstated.

Minister, your announcement does build on a long-standing commitment by Welsh Governments to move resources in health and social care from acute hospital services towards preventative services in the community. We recognise the need for action to meet rising demand and to offer dignity in care to vulnerable adults and children, and this has to be a priority for the Government.

Minister, you'll be pleased to hear that Welsh Labour does share your aspirations to build a national health and care service fit for the future, as laid out in the programme for government. We share key principles for social care, that social care should be free at the point of need and not based on ability to pay or which institution is commissioning or providing care and, wherever possible, enable people to live independently in their own home, to be delivered by a well-trained and remunerated workforce whose skills and commitment are valued as a vocation for care. And we too recognise that more support is needed for unpaid carers. And I hope that we can agree that unpaid carers are struggling to balance work and caring responsibilities. They are our unsung heroes, and unpaid carers of all ages do deserve more than warm words.

Deputy Minister, we're all pleased, I think, to see the emphasis put on caring and social care by the Prime Minister and him starting a national conversation in England, and I read in the statement and hear today the national conversation that you are starting. So, I'm very pleased that's happening, but I would like to have some more detail on when that will start and what form that will take. As your statement recognises, Wales is ahead of our neighbours, such as in the work of the national social care academy, which was started under the last Government, so I'm happy to see that moving forward. The Welsh Labour Government kept the capital limit at £50,000 so that people can keep more of their own money before they pay for care, and we also maintained the cap on domiciliary care charges so that no-one pays more than £100 a week for care in their own home. They do say, Deputy Minister, that imitation is the best form of flattery, so it's pleasing to see that Welsh Labour policies are continuing from the last Labour Government in your announcement today.

In Government, Welsh Labour made available funding for the real living wage to be implemented for the workforce in the social care sector, so, therefore, you will have whatever support you need from Welsh Labour to improve the pay, skills and career progression of the social care workforce. So, we welcome the proposed national social care academy, as I've said, and we do really need to promote that as a valued vocation, with high-quality training and status in our society.

I do have a number of questions, and I know that we'll all have these questions for you, but, Minister, how will you lead the care sector to meet the challenges of rising demand and complexity that you so rightly highlight in your statement, and how will you build more capacity in the care market to meet future demand so that hospitals can discharge patients to appropriate domiciliary and residential care? The problem with delayed discharge of care is a shortage of capacity in the domiciliary and residential care sectors, so how are you expanding the market and putting additional resources into the care market so that there are more places for the growing number of those needing care?

Minister, your long-term vision of a 10-year plan is a big ambition, but people will need to see action soon, and I know that councils in every annual budget round evidence to the Government that their social care costs are escalating rapidly. We do know that we have a growing older population and there's greater complexity of need, and the pressure on those budgets, then, are very focused. But—

Can I ask you to conclude, please?

Yes, absolutely. So, creating a national care service isn't simple; it's going to involve that resource, legislative and financial and operational change, and people will want to see action as soon as possible. So, I'd be keen to hear the plans and your trajectory for change. Diolch.

Diolch, Jayne. And before I start, I realised there was one thing I didn't answer James on, which was the funding. I can confirm that it's £3.6 million on top of the package of existing funding streams that is involved in this.

Diolch, Jayne, for your comments and your questions. And as you said at the start, this isn't about structures alone, is it? It's about people being able to live their most fulfilled lives possible—people being able to live as independently as they can for as long as possible. It is about making people's lives better. And I am really glad and grateful for your signal of support for the general vision here. And, again, I know that there will be individual areas where Members from across the Senedd of all parties will want to be interrogating, and that's you doing your jobs. I want you to be doing this; I want you to be pushing us to be more ambitious and seeing what things are working well and what we need to be improving. But where we can have unity of support for that overarching vision, whether it is the package or the individual elements within it, then I think that that is something, actually, really valuable.

I know that unpaid carers are a particular concern and passion for you and I'm really looking forward to being able to publish more of that detail in the strategy in November. And as I've said already, the Welsh Government has invested £13 million to help ensure carers receive the support they need in 2026-27, funding the short breaks scheme, carers support fund; an extra £7.35 million—sorry—that was included through the regional integration fund. There are lots of, as I say, individual ways in which the Government continues to support these vitally important people in our society, but we need to go further, of course.

I do welcome, as you have welcomed, Prime Minister Andy Burnham's focus on this. And yes, Wales has been ahead, but it doesn't matter who announced things first. The fact is that there is a moment here for us to be able to work together, and I really hope that that will be taken up. I've written to Yvette Cooper, the Secretary of State for Health and Social Care, to seek a bilateral ministerial discussion on social care reform, because I think we need to maximise this moment and the opportunities. And I know that a number of Members in this Chamber have already been involved in a cross-party discussion on the future of social care in Wales, and I again extend that invitation to representatives from all parties for those discussions to continue.

In terms of the maximum charges, as you set out, for care and support, Wales, again, is ahead of England here, but that isn't enough. We shouldn't rest on our laurels, of course. We need to be making sure—. Because every time I answer a letter saying, 'Oh, well, actually, this is the situation at the moment, and we're in a more advantageous position', it doesn't make it easier, though, does it, for the families who are having to lose so much money in order to give care to the people that they love.

And finally, in terms of the demographic picture that we have in Wales, in terms of the fact that people are living longer, that people are living, as you said, with more complex health and care needs, more families are balancing work, family life, caring responsibilities—we need to modernise the system. This isn't something that is going to go away. It's only going to get more serious and more needed. And you had asked me about how we can improve integration and make sure that the integration between health and care is working well. So, our pathways of care delay data is being used to understand the system-wide discharge challenges, the capacity constraints, variations in performance across Wales. I know that, in 2025-26, £30 million has been invested through the pathways of care transformation grant to support those improvements. We want to drive that further, and I really hope that there'll be cross-party support for that work.

Can I thank the Deputy Minister for this afternoon's statement? For me, this is another week, another statement from the Welsh Government that, quite frankly, doesn't say or do a great deal. There's a lot of warm words here, but little detail on how this is actually going to be achieved going forward.

Deputy Presiding Officer, I'm sure there's not a single person in this Chamber who doesn't agree that we need major improvements when it comes to social care. Recognising a problem is one thing. Delivering a serious solution is another. And my Welsh Conservative colleagues and I do not believe a national care system is going to be the answer. Because I cannot simply see right now how it's going to tackle the issue of capacity, recruitment and hospital discharge delays. We need immediate improvements in existing services, Deputy Minister, not wasting time focusing on a care service that's going to be years in the making. Closed community hospital wards need to be reopened, capacity needs to be expanded, recruitment and retention must be a top priority, which is something we're hearing consistently in this Chamber.

The Welsh Conservatives believe that there is a practical alternative, and that is improving social care through sustainable funding, stronger co-operation between the NHS and local authorities, greater personal choice and better support for those who provide care. So, I'd like to know what the Welsh Government's doing now to improve social care, Deputy Minister, as your ambition for social care is going to be years away by what I've been reading today. Funding will be crucial for any care service plan. So, Deputy Minister, your Government tells us it wants social care to be free at the point of use, just like the NHS, yet we have no detail of how much this initiative will cost. You mentioned to James Evans earlier £3.6 million extra on top of the current package, but has the Plaid Cymru Government found a magic money tree somewhere? Because is this just a case of overpromising and underdelivering, because where is the detailed assessment of the long-term costs? We have an ageing population, Deputy Minister, so the bill will undoubtedly rise year by year. Those are questions that taxpayers deserve to have answered.

Outcomes are another concern that I have when it comes to the care service, and, ultimately, I think it's outcomes that the people of Wales care about the most. How confident are you, Deputy Minister, that your care service will bring about these genuinely big benefits? What are you doing to ensure it results in that a family looking after loved ones with dementia can actually access respite care easily? And how exactly are you going to ensure it results in a fall in the number of bedblocking incidents, which remain far too high? Also, how are you going to ensure that it results in an older person receiving quicker support when they can no longer manage to live at home safely? How will the Government ensure its care service actually delivers its aims and goals and isn't just another Government quango that adds another layer of bureaucracy?

Workforce is another cause of concern for me, Deputy Minister. How are you going to ensure there are enough staff to successfully implement and sustain this national care service? We all know the sector is already under immense pressure when it comes to recruitment and retention, and I must pay tribute to those working tirelessly in the field. In 2025, there were more than 6,100 estimated vacancies within the sector—June 2025—up drastically from the previous year. Not only that, but according to a survey from Social Care Wales, 20 per cent of staff said they were aiming to leave the sector within an average of 14 months. So, not only is getting workers through the door in the first place a major problem but keeping them in the job itself is a serious challenge right now. How is that going to be addressed, Deputy Minister?

In your statement, you talk about establishing a national social care academy again. The details were light for me. When will this be created? Where will this be created? How much is this costing? What is the anticipated capacity? These are all questions that I would really like to have the answers for. Deputy Minister, if the Plaid Government is going to push ahead with plans to create a national care service, these questions have to be addressed before that happens. Those residents across Wales who depend on our social care sector need more than just a pipe dream. They need a costed, detailed and credible plan. Thank you.

Diolch, Natasha. I'm sorry that you think that it's weak. We're talking about stuff here that we can't afford not to do. This is about making people's lives better. It's about making sure that people can have a better quality of life. What on earth are we here for if not to do something like this? But I'll move on to the questions that you have asked.

I'll talk you through some of the ways in which the package that I have announced today is going to be making real differences to people's lives. In terms of the social care academy, that will help recruitment. It will help with the retention of care workers. And it will help to build esteem for that workforce, because one of the things—and it's come up already a few times today—one of the things that is maddening is that during the COVID pandemic, everyone had this moment of appreciating care workers. And we all went out into the streets, we applauded them. And somehow in our collective psyche as society, people have allowed themselves to forget that importance. These are the people who keep our society going.

So, that academy is going to be, yes, about giving that career progression, but it's also going to be about giving that greater gravitas and esteem to the profession too. And again, I'm looking forward to being able to announce further detail on that. But that is something that I hope we would have cross-party support on. And I know that there's a lot of interest from our neighbouring countries about how the local academies are already working and how we're going to be bringing that through to a national picture.

On the social care intelligence hub, that's going to, again, help strengthen planning, help to identify risks and pressures. The work of the pathways of care intelligence, that's going to improve discharge processes from hospital to address capacity constraints. The work on unpaid carers is going to improve how early people are identified as unpaid carers, how well they're assessed in terms of the support that they're going to get. Each of these actions is going to make a material improvement in people's lives. Every single one of these things will make a difference.

In terms of assessing what we're doing and finding better ways of how things could work, all of this work is fundamental, because otherwise we will be trying to build a castle on sand—and not just sand, but quicksand, because it is moving under our feet all the time. We have to make sure that the foundations dig deep into the ground. That's why this planning work is so vitally important.

But you asked some other questions too. On dementia, I won't repeat what I've already said in terms of the pathways of care. You did ask about future funding, which is a fair question, certainly. We're going to be carrying out detailed modelling work to understand how the changes to care charging could affect people in the future, and that's going to be assessing the financial, distributional, operational impacts of different charging and funding options. Where more sophisticated analysis will be required, we're going to be commissioning that through specialist external expertise. And so, from April 2027, a dedicated social care intelligence hub is going to be strengthening that modelling, that analytical capacity. 

A number of the other questions that you had asked in terms of the workforce, in terms of how we're going to be making sure that that capacity is driven up, the social care academy is going to be doing an awful lot of that work. I hope very much that I and other Members will be able to convince you of the really important need for this work. But I thank you for your questions.

I'd like to reiterate my praise for the hard work of carers right across Wales, and unpaid carers as well. We keep hearing ambitious promises about a national care and support service, yet front-line social care in places such as Flintshire and Wrexham remains under severe pressure. Around 1,300 to 1,400 patients across Wales are waiting in hospital despite being medically fit for discharge because the care packages and supported accommodation they need are simply not available. In north Wales, those pressures are felt particularly acutely as Betsi Cadwaladr continues to face significant challenges. While care providers struggle with workforce shortages, rising demand and commissioning pressures cause problems.

Deputy Minister, much of your statement, as stated by Natasha Asghar, focuses on new structures, leadership arrangements, intelligence hubs, academies and national conversations, but for the families waiting for support and patients stuck in hospital beds, those initiatives will mean little unless they deliver real improvements on the ground. So, my question is: given that you say success should be measured not by structures you created, but by whether people can access the right support at the right time, when can older and vulnerable people across Wales expect to see a measurable increase in the front-line care capacity, a reduction in delayed hospital discharges and better access to the care and support they need, rather than more administration, new bodies and further planning?

Diolch, Nigel. In terms of the final challenge that you put to me there, it is of course a fair one: we shouldn't ever be, and I would never want to be, measuring the work that we are doing here in terms of just structures or what's written down on a piece of paper. It has to be in what difference it makes to the reality of people's lives—people who are really struggling in society and need this support. As you've said, our front-line workers are under tremendous pressure and there are far too many people who are able to leave hospital and are not leaving hospital because of delayed discharges. It is not good enough and we need to do better. I do agree with you.

In terms of these structures that I've been announcing, each of these is going to be necessary in order to encompass the work that we are doing. I don't want us to be measuring just the structures, but they are more than just bodies. They are about making sure that the work that we do, that it works together properly. When we talk about a national intelligence hub, that's not just for the sake of having a national intelligence hub. It's to make sure that we can see the patterns of, 'Okay, so, where could these discharges be improved here? What is'—sorry, I'm not in front of the microphone—'happening in this local health board area? Is this happening somewhere else? Is this a national problem? Is this something where we need to be targeting support?'

I go again back to the point that it is greater than the sum of its parts, but it only will be greater if it truly delivers for people. There will be demonstrable ways in which people will be able to see improvements over the course of this Senedd term. It's similar to the safeguarding announcement that I made a few weeks ago. Okay, there are some elements—. For example, the hub will be coming in in April 2027. I hope that, certainly within months of that coming live, we would be able to see demonstrable improvements. I would really welcome Members' thoughts, both from the committee and Members more generally, about what would be the best ways for the Senedd to continuing scrutinising how this develops. This is something that goes beyond any Government and goes beyond any party. We have to get this right for our society, so I would welcome further conversations on that. Thank you.

Deputy Minister, I am concerned that constituents of mine are being, quite frankly, exploited. I met with some homecare workers in my constituency who are sometimes working 12-hour shifts for as little as four hours of pay. They are expected to drive from home to home, from one side of Cardiff to the other, and they are not getting paid for any of that driving time. They are sometimes forced to work weeks on end without a day off, delivering care to our most vulnerable while stressed and exhausted.

These workers are on the health and care skilled worker visas, and when they raise their working conditions with their employers, whom their visas are tied to, the employers threaten their visa status to try and coerce and control the workers. When I heard this, I was actually at a loss for words at how disgusting and shocking this is. These migrant workers are being forced to work without getting paid for their labour.

So, would the Deputy Minister work with counterparts in the UK Government and in local authorities to try and root out these exploitative practices associated with this type of visa, to ensure that working conditions reflect the values that she has set out, rightly so, in today's statement, for both domestic and migrant workers in our social care sector?

Diolch, Kiera. Yes. The short answer is, yes, certainly I will work with counterparts on this. Overseas workers should be valued. They should be treated no differently from workers who have been recruited domestically. They help make people's lives better. They make such a huge contribution to our society. No employer should be exploiting their status in order to, in some way, save money. I do not blame you for being lost for words.

We have published guidance and resources to help workers understand their rights, but I appreciate that, in many of these situations, these workers will be in a very vulnerable situation and might not feel that they know where to turn. I would implore them to know that a range of assistance is available, including the National Advisory Service for international social care workers. That provides advice, it provides information. We also work very closely with our trade union partners, who provide such important support and advocacy for overseas workers. I am really grateful that you have raised this issue today, because it should shame us all that this is happening.

Diolch, Deputy Llywydd. I welcome the Deputy Minister's statement today, but it seems that the statement is doubling down again on this Stronger Safeguarding for a Safer Wales. As you know, I have already expressed serious reservations about this, because while it looks fluffy on the outside, it is not so on the inside.

We already know about the damage that overly burdensome safeguarding procedures can cause in the care and health services. At the moment, it is quite reactive. We only need to listen to some of the stories of people who have been under this to understand what it is like. So, we must ensure that social care does not suffer the same fate. Safeguarding must protect people without drowning front-line workers in paperwork and without placing front-line professionals' lives on hold while they are subject to safeguarding inquiries. How can we recruit and hope to retain in the care sector with these strict safeguarding measures in line? It does not go well.

The statement says that success will not be measured by structures created or documents published, but how exactly, then, are you going to measure success? And what measurable targets, timescales and outcomes will be published to demonstrate improvements in care recruitment and retention? Diolch.

Diolch, Catherine, for those questions. I know that there were a few other points that I won't repeat,

that I won't repeat, but I appreciate why you're asking them, of course.

In terms of the safeguarding points—and I appreciate that you've raised this before—the system is very much meant to support some of the most vulnerable people in our society. Of course we wouldn't want to have unintended consequences to come as part of this, and I know that this is something that you're really concerned about. I wonder if you could write to me with the individual concerns that you have, because I'd really like to look into those, to make sure that something that we don't intend is going to happen. Would you mind writing to me so that I can look into that in some detail? Diolch.

Our fiscal position requires us to consider carefully the prospect of continuing with the revaluation programme. It requires us to ask not simply whether revaluation is desirable in principle, but whether proceeding represents the best use of the resources available to us at this time. I have to look carefully at the resources available to the Welsh Government to deliver on key priorities for this Senedd term—bringing down waiting lists, supporting families with the cost of childcare, creating jobs and raising educational standards. I’m also mindful of the need to provide funding for the local government settlement, 

households across Wales would have benefitted. And on revaluation, the IFS said it was 'unambiguously a good idea'. 

The reforms were revenue-neutral overall, and it was that progressive redistribution that led Plaid Cymru opposition at the time, just two years ago, to demand that the Welsh Labour Government went even faster with reforms. Again, to quote a party spokesperson,

'Reforming the broken and outdated council tax system has been a cornerstone of Plaid Cymru policy for many years'

and,

'....a delay would disadvantage the most vulnerable'. 

Plaid Cymru even tabled an amendment to the Local Government Finance (Wales) Bill that would have placed a duty on Welsh Government to implement the reforms by April 2025. The now First Minister even told Welsh media at the time that not going forward with those reforms was one of the reasons why they pulled out of the co-operation agreement. 

So, you've gone from an issue that you were prepared to break a former co-operation agreement with, to making this issue one that is not a priority at all. A can kicked down the road all the way to 2032. That's quite a journey.

Cabinet Minister, aren't you concerned that by retreating on a policy Plaid Cymru has campaigned so vociferously on, by going back so clearly on an action promise, you're not just undermining confidence in Welsh Government, you're also undermining confidence in the democratic process? And I can't be the only one wondering what has changed for Plaid Cymru. At what point did the moral case stop being overwhelming? Does the Cabinet Minister disagree with her own party from just two years ago that a delay would disadvantage the most vulnerable? Or does she think financial pressures have eased up over the last two years, such that low-income households no longer need a cut in their council tax?

Now, from the comments made by others around this issue, it looks like Plaid Cymru will have support from Reform and the Tories to push through these proposals. But is the Government confident of retaining support from its own backbenches—those who stood on a platform of progressive change? I would certainly not wish to be in their shoes when this matter comes to a vote. 

And lastly, will she commit to publishing a full impact assessment, including an equalities impact assessment and a distribution analysis of the Government's plans not to press ahead with these reforms, and ensure that analysis is available well in advance of any votes? 

Let's be clear: this is a promise broken, and it is the poorest council taxpayers in Wales who will pay the price. Diolch. 

I too have words in front of me, and it is the written statement and the update on council tax reform by Rebecca Evans in 2024, when the anticipated 2025 revaluation was delayed by the Government of the time until 2028. I read that written statement and it says very much the same as I've been saying in my oral statement today. And one of the main reasons for the delay in 2025 was the exact same reason that I gave in my statement as well. And it was in the context of the broader financial pressures on that Government and the need for an appropriate transition fund. Those were the reasons given by Rebecca Evans in 2024 for a delay from 2025 to 2028. Those financial pressures, I would say, are even more significant today on public services, and on the Government. 

And, as I said in my earlier answer, this Government did seriously consider how we could undertake a revaluation for 2028. We do see the value in that revaluation, in updating our council tax system, in making it a fairer system based on what we would have produced as a 12-band model. But the public finances of today, and of 2028, do not allow us to take those decisions. I don't know whether it's lucky to remember the revaluation of 2003-05. I remember the 30 per cent of people who found that they were suddenly facing higher council tax at that time. I remember the very significant letters, by the way, I was getting at the time, not e-mails in inboxes

Thank you for your statement, Minister. Across Wales, families have faced and continue to face some of the largest energy price increases anywhere in the developed world. Yet the statement today makes it clear that this Government is committed to one thing, and that's more bureaucracy. Minister, your new publicly owned energy company is no doubt in your mind a key tenant of your energy strategy, but it's just not needed.

that Wales has a huge untapped potential to be completely self-sufficient in green, safe, resilient energy generation, owned by our communities and our nation. We believe that Wales must aim to meet all of our energy needs from renewables by 2035, to reduce our carbon emissions and tackle global heating, but also, to ensure energy independence from global price shocks, and to protect the poorest in our society from continuing energy poverty.

I do have a concern about the loss of the explicit mention of renewables from targets. Because, if we reduce carbon emissions, but create other problems, future generations won't thank us. And I would remind the Reform spokesman that nuclear power is expensive, won't deliver in time, and creates terrible risks for future generations. 

Can the Cabinet Minister provide reassurance that the shift in focus from renewable energy targets to reducing emissions will not lead to other significant environmental consequences for our children and grandchildren?

As I said earlier, the motivation for the shift to a holistic target, hopefully, is one that the Member would be in sympathy with. Because, it was a perverse situation where we weren't actually recognising the fact that we could hit the target because it was based on this notional consumption, whereas our energy generation system was creating masses of fossil-fuel based emissions through fossil fuel generation. That makes no sense in environmental terms. And so, what we're saying is, 'Look, we want to decarbonise the energy system'. 

And the other point to make is: we're adopting a holistic view, not just in the terms that I've just described, but also recognising the importance of looking at the entire energy system. So, energy is also in the form of heating, isn't it? It's also in the form of how we power our transport system. So, it's not just decarbonising the electricity generation system, but also electrifying the entire energy system and doing it on a low carbon basis, which allows us to hit our more ambitious net zero target of 2040. 

Can I thank the Minister for today's statement? Plaid Cymru's manifesto policy establishes a clear presumption on undergrounding new electricity transmission cables up to 132 Kv. I attended the recent Green GEN Cymru consultation in Llandovery, where all the plans showed miles and miles of pylons. One of my constituents reports that he received three different answers on the cost of undergrounding versus overgrounding from three different Green GEN officials—'Four times the cost', 'Nine times the cost' and 'I don't know because we haven't costed it'. 

If this is a proper business proposition, surely Green GEN should know what the cost is and not pure guesswork. Interestingly, the maps showed only a tiny amount of undergrounding near Llanarthne, where I believe several of Plaid's high-profile politicians reside. Minister, can you explain where you stand on undergrounding, as Green GEN does not appear to be listening?

I'm grateful to the Member for her question. The Welsh Government, as I think I've said many times, is committed to delivering its manifesto pledge on electricity distribution infrastructure at 132 kV and below. And I've put that on the record many times. I will have more to say on this matter in the very near future. And we welcome continued engagement with Members, and with communities, with local authorities, with other interested partners, as part of that process. But, yes, we remain committed to our very clear manifesto commitment and I'll have more to say in due course. 

I've tried to, in everything that we've done—. This is an update on a strategy which will be published shortly, and, when it's published, I'll look forward to further engagement. I'm trying, in quite a complex but really important area, to be open and continuously engaged with Members, and I'll look forward to continue with that engagement on this matter, as on every other aspect of the policy.