Y Cyfarfod Llawn
Plenary
12/03/2025Cynnwys
Contents
Yn y fersiwn ddwyieithog, mae’r golofn chwith yn cynnwys yr iaith a lefarwyd yn y cyfarfod. Mae’r golofn dde yn cynnwys cyfieithiad o’r areithiau hynny.
In the bilingual version, the left-hand column includes the language used during the meeting. The right-hand column includes a translation of those speeches.
Cyfarfu'r Senedd yn y Siambr a thrwy gynhadledd fideo am 13:30 gyda'r Llywydd (Elin Jones) yn y Gadair.
The Senedd met in the Chamber and by video-conference at 13:30 with the Llywydd (Elin Jones) in the Chair.
Croeso, bawb, i'r Cyfarfod Llawn. Yr eitem gyntaf heddiw fydd y cwestiynau i Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet dros Drafnidiaeth a Gogledd Cymru, ac mae'r cwestiwn cyntaf gan Delyth Jewell.
Welcome, everyone, to this Plenary meeting. The first item today will be questions to the Cabinet Secretary for Transport and North Wales, and the first question is from Delyth Jewell.
1. A wnaiff yr Ysgrifennydd Cabinet roi'r wybodaeth ddiweddaraf am hygyrchedd gwasanaethau trenau a bysiau yn Nwyrain De Cymru? OQ62418
1. Will the Cabinet Secretary provide an update on the accessibility of train and bus services in South Wales East? OQ62418

Yes, of course. We wish to develop an integrated transport network that is accessible for all people in Wales. That's why we're legislating to introduce a franchised bus network, why we're investing £800 million to upgrade our rail fleet, and I am committed to support the work of the disability rights taskforce.
Wrth gwrs. Hoffem ddatblygu rhwydwaith trafnidiaeth integredig sy’n hygyrch i bawb yng Nghymru. Dyna pam ein bod yn deddfu i fasnachfreinio'r rhwydwaith bysiau, pam ein bod yn buddsoddi £800 miliwn i uwchraddio ein fflyd drenau, ac rwyf wedi ymrwymo i gefnogi gwaith y tasglu hawliau pobl anabl.
Diolch am hwnna.
Thank you for that.
Some months ago, I had a motion passed in the Senedd relating to improving access to bus and trains at stations, and also on those services. I worry that too many of our public spaces are designed in ways that exclude people—stations that rely on people being able to see obstacles or changes to timetables, poorly lit walkways that make women feel more vulnerable at night, and services that can be cancelled at short notice, leaving passengers stranded. Because women, people with disabilities, they're not intrinsically vulnerable—it's the way that our public spaces are designed that creates that vulnerability. Now, I've pushed for changes with Transport for Wales to alter the processes they follow when cancelling services to be different during the winter months, so that passengers aren't stranded in isolated areas after dark. But we need to change the way we design the spaces that we are all meant to share. So, do you agree with me on that, how are you pushing forward those changes, please, and could we have a meeting to discuss how these changes can happen?
Rai misoedd yn ôl, cefais gynnig wedi'i basio yn y Senedd a oedd yn ymwneud â gwella mynediad at fysiau a threnau mewn gorsafoedd, a hefyd ar y gwasanaethau hynny. Rwy’n poeni bod gormod o’n mannau cyhoeddus wedi’u cynllunio mewn ffyrdd sy’n eithrio pobl—gorsafoedd sy’n dibynnu ar allu pobl i weld rhwystrau neu newidiadau i amserlenni, llwybrau cerdded wedi’u goleuo’n wael sy’n gwneud i fenywod deimlo’n fwy agored i niwed yn y nos, a gwasanaethau y gellir eu canslo ar fyr rybudd, gan adael teithwyr heb ffordd adref. Oherwydd nid yw menywod, pobl ag anableddau, yn agored i niwed yn eu hanfod—y ffordd y mae ein mannau cyhoeddus wedi'u cynllunio sy'n peri iddynt fod felly. Nawr, rwyf wedi gwthio am newidiadau gyda Trafnidiaeth Cymru i newid y prosesau y maent yn eu dilyn wrth ganslo gwasanaethau i fod yn wahanol yn ystod misoedd y gaeaf, fel nad yw teithwyr yn cael eu gadael mewn ardaloedd anghysbell ar ôl iddi dywyllu. Ond mae angen inni newid y ffordd y cynlluniwn y gofodau yr ydym i gyd i fod i'w rhannu. Felly, a ydych chi'n cytuno â mi ynglŷn â hynny, sut rydych chi'n gwthio’r newidiadau hynny yn eu blaen, os gwelwch yn dda, ac a allem gael cyfarfod i drafod sut y gellir gwneud y newidiadau hyn?
Yes, I'd be delighted to meet with the Member to discuss the various issues she's raised today, and which she's raised on a consistent basis with me. I believe that Cardiff bus station is a pretty good example of how design can be undertaken with people involved with certain lived experiences, from the very outset, so that certain systems and design features don't have to be retrofitted after infrastructure has been built. We have an access and inclusion panel within Transport for Wales. It's done outstanding work. I met with them just in the last month, and I've committed to providing the right support to the panel to maximise its impact and influence in this area. But I would value a meeting to discuss the various issues regarding safety and regarding accessibility to public transport.
Wrth gwrs, rwy'n fwy na pharod i gyfarfod â'r Aelod i drafod yr amryw faterion y mae wedi'u codi heddiw, ac y mae wedi'u codi gyda mi yn gyson. Credaf fod gorsaf fysiau Caerdydd yn enghraifft eithaf da o sut y gellir cynllunio drwy gynnwys pobl sydd â phrofiadau bywyd penodol, o’r cychwyn cyntaf, fel nad oes yn rhaid ôl-osod rhai systemau a nodweddion cynllunio ar ôl adeiladu seilwaith. Mae gennym banel mynediad a chynhwysiant yn Trafnidiaeth Cymru. Mae wedi gwneud gwaith rhagorol. Cyfarfûm â hwy yn y mis diwethaf, ac rwyf wedi ymrwymo i ddarparu'r cymorth cywir i'r panel er mwyn cynyddu ei effaith a'i ddylanwad yn y maes hwn. Ond byddwn yn gwerthfawrogi cyfarfod i drafod y materion amrywiol ynghylch diogelwch a hygyrchedd trafnidiaeth gyhoeddus.
Cabinet Secretary, I've been contacted by a number of constituents from my region who travel regularly between Blaenavon, Pontypool, Cwmbran and Newport via bus. Due to a road closure in Pontypool, there has been chaos within the area itself, causing severe delays to bus services, including one specific service called the X24. This is affecting my constituents travelling to work, those travelling to colleges, some are going to hospital appointments, some are travelling to Newport to catch timed connections—even those who are catching connections for holidays as well. Now, I'm told this has a knock-on effect as the service, after arriving in Newport, becomes the 151 service to Blackwood. One particular constituent I spoke with revealed it's regularly taking her more than an hour to travel the four or so miles from her home in Cwmbran to her work in Newport, making her regularly late and not very favourable with her employer—and that's if she's lucky. One morning, she spent an hour and a half waiting for a bus that never, indeed, turned up. Despite opting to catch earlier services, I'm told this has not alleviated the problem for my constituents. So, Cabinet Secretary, I have raised this issue directly with Stagecoach, but would you kindly also look into this matter and work with the bus operator to explore potential solutions, please? My constituents and I would be incredibly grateful. Thank you.
Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet, mae nifer o etholwyr o fy rhanbarth sy'n teithio'n rheolaidd ar y bws rhwng Blaenafon, Pont-y-pŵl, Cwmbrân a Chasnewydd wedi cysylltu â mi. Yn dilyn cau ffordd ym Mhont-y-pŵl, roedd anhrefn yn yr ardal, gan achosi oedi difrifol i wasanaethau bysiau, gan gynnwys un gwasanaeth penodol, yr X24. Mae hyn yn effeithio ar fy etholwyr sy'n teithio i'r gwaith, y rheini sy'n teithio i golegau, mae rhai'n mynd i apwyntiadau ysbyty, rhai'n teithio i Gasnewydd i ddal cysylltiadau ar amser penodol—hyd yn oed y rheini sy'n dal cysylltiadau i fynd ar wyliau hefyd. Nawr, dywedir wrthyf fod hyn yn cael effaith ganlyniadol, gan fod y gwasanaeth, ar ôl cyrraedd Casnewydd, yn dod yn wasanaeth 151 i'r Coed-duon. Datgelodd un etholwr penodol y siaradais â hi ei bod yn aml yn cymryd mwy nag awr iddi deithio oddeutu pedair milltir o’i chartref yng Nghwmbrân i’w gwaith yng Nghasnewydd, sy'n golygu ei bod yn aml yn hwyr ac yn amhoblogaidd gyda’i chyflogwr—a hynny os yw hi’n lwcus. Un bore, treuliodd awr a hanner yn aros am fws na chyrhaeddodd. Er eu bod yn dewis dal gwasanaethau cynharach, dywedir wrthyf nad yw hyn wedi gwella'r broblem i fy etholwyr. Felly, Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet, rwyf wedi codi'r mater hwn yn uniongyrchol gyda Stagecoach, ond a fyddech cystal ag ymchwilio i'r mater hwn hefyd a gweithio gyda'r gweithredwr bysiau i archwilio atebion posibl, os gwelwch yn dda? Byddai fy etholwyr a minnau’n hynod ddiolchgar. Diolch.
I'd be more than happy to investigate the challenges with the X24 and the 151 bus services. Franchising, I believe, in the longer term, will assist in ensuring that networks are designed to meet the needs of passengers. And, also, with franchising, we'll be able to operate more bus replacement services when systems fail. But, in the short term, I will look at the matter, and I'll report back to the Member.
Rwy'n fwy na pharod i ymchwilio i'r heriau gyda gwasanaethau bws X24 a 151. Credaf y bydd masnachfreinio, yn y tymor hwy, yn helpu i sicrhau bod rhwydweithiau’n cael eu cynllunio i ddiwallu anghenion teithwyr. A hefyd, gyda masnachfreinio, byddwn yn gallu gweithredu mwy o wasanaethau yn lle bysiau pan fydd systemau'n methu. Ond yn y tymor byr, fe edrychaf ar y mater, ac fe adroddaf yn ôl i'r Aelod.
Cabinet Secretary, the basic accessibility of rail services, obviously, involves the provision of those services and, indeed, train stations. The work of the Burns commission, and now taken forward by the delivery unit, proposes those five new stations for that south-east Wales area, including three stations in my constituency of Newport East. Many, many people want to access train services to get to work and find that those services are not accessible in a way that would allow them to do so, and, as a result, there's a lot of congestion on the roads, including the M4, of course. So, I just wonder if you could provide an update, Cabinet Secretary, in terms of those five new stations and your discussions with the UK Government.
Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet, mae hygyrchedd sylfaenol gwasanaethau trên yn amlwg yn ymwneud â darpariaeth y gwasanaethau hynny, ac yn wir, gorsafoedd trên. Mae gwaith comisiwn Burns, a bellach yr uned cyflenwi, yn cynnig y pum gorsaf newydd hynny ar gyfer yr ardal honno yn ne-ddwyrain Cymru, gan gynnwys tair gorsaf yn fy etholaeth i yn Nwyrain Casnewydd. Mae llawer iawn o bobl am gael mynediad at wasanaethau trên i gyrraedd y gwaith ac yn canfod nad yw’r gwasanaethau hynny’n hygyrch mewn ffordd a fyddai’n caniatáu iddynt wneud hynny, ac o ganlyniad, mae llawer o dagfeydd ar y ffyrdd, gan gynnwys yr M4 wrth gwrs. Felly, tybed a allech chi roi'r wybodaeth ddiweddaraf, Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet, am y pum gorsaf newydd a'ch trafodaethau gyda Llywodraeth y DU.
I thank the Member for his supplementary question, and I would agree that when you supply additional capacity, people will use it. We've seen a 13 per cent increase in passengers on TfW services just in the past year, showing the huge demand that is out there for transport.
I was very pleased to see recently Professor Simon Gibson, who is chair of the Burns delivery unit, meet with Lord Hendy, the rail Minister, to discuss the projects that you've just outlined. I believe the discussions were very positive, not least because we now have an agreed pipeline of enhancements for rail infrastructure in Wales, which includes specifically those stations that were proposed by Lord Burns as well as the other work associated with the south-east Wales transport commission and, indeed, the north Wales transport commission.
Diolch i’r Aelod am ei gwestiwn atodol, a byddwn yn cytuno, pan fyddwch yn darparu capasiti ychwanegol, y bydd pobl yn ei ddefnyddio. Rydym wedi gweld cynnydd o 13 y cant yn nifer y teithwyr ar wasanaethau Trafnidiaeth Cymru yn y flwyddyn ddiwethaf yn unig, sy'n dangos y galw enfawr sydd yno am drafnidiaeth.
Roeddwn yn falch iawn o weld yr Athro Simon Gibson, cadeirydd uned cyflenwi Burns, yn cyfarfod â’r Arglwydd Hendy, y Gweinidog rheilffyrdd, yn ddiweddar i drafod y prosiectau yr ydych newydd eu hamlinellu. Credaf fod y trafodaethau’n gadarnhaol iawn, yn anad dim am fod gennym bellach welliannau arfaethedig y cytunwyd arnynt i'r seilwaith rheilffyrdd yng Nghymru, sy’n cynnwys y gorsafoedd penodol hynny a gynigiwyd gan yr Arglwydd Burns, yn ogystal â’r gwaith arall sy'n ymwneud â chomisiwn trafnidiaeth de-ddwyrain Cymru, ac yn wir, comisiwn trafnidiaeth gogledd Cymru.
2. Sut mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn gwella diogelwch ar y ffyrdd yng Ngorllewin Caerfyrddin a De Sir Benfro? OQ62412
2. How is the Welsh Government improving road safety in Carmarthen West and South Pembrokeshire? OQ62412
Across Wales, we’re supporting local authorities to set the right speed limits on the right local roads. In Carmarthen West and South Pembrokeshire, we are improving infrastructure, funding road safety initiatives, supporting enforcement, and ensuring road safety is integrated into the regional transport plan to create safer, healthier communities.
Ledled Cymru, rydym yn cefnogi awdurdodau lleol i osod y terfynau cyflymder cywir ar y ffyrdd lleol cywir. Yng Ngorllewin Caerfyrddin a De Sir Benfro, rydym yn gwella seilwaith, yn ariannu mentrau diogelwch ar y ffyrdd, yn cefnogi gorfodaeth, ac yn sicrhau bod mesurau diogelwch ar y ffyrdd yn cael eu hintegreiddio yn y cynllun trafnidiaeth rhanbarthol i greu cymunedau mwy diogel ac iachach.
Thank you for that answer, Cabinet Secretary. It can’t be understated, the success of the improvements at the Nash Fingerpost junction along the A477, and I thank the Welsh Government for their intervention in making that junction safe. But also along the A477 is the junction to Red Roses—a 90-degree junction on a busy main road, where there have been a number of accidents over the years. Now, I’ve written to you about this previously, and I’ve met with you. While this junction itself is compliant with the rules, common sense dictates that it's not safe. The same could be said for the new junction on the Llanddewi Velfrey-Redstone Cross bypass—again, another 90-degree junction with no slip-road exit on a busy road. Could I ask that these two junctions are looked at in more detail and that the regulations that are used to build these junctions are updated, because it’s clear from common sense that these junctions aren’t safe, but they continue to be built not only in my constituency, but across Wales as well?
Diolch am eich ateb, Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet. Ni ellir gorbwysleisio llwyddiant y gwelliannau ar gyffordd Mynegbost Nash ar yr A477, a diolch i Lywodraeth Cymru am eu hymyrraeth i wneud y gyffordd honno’n ddiogel. Ond hefyd ar yr A477, mae’r gyffordd i Ros-goch—cyffordd 90-gradd ar briffordd brysur, lle bu nifer o ddamweiniau dros y blynyddoedd. Nawr, rwyf wedi ysgrifennu atoch ynglŷn â hyn o'r blaen, ac rwyf wedi cyfarfod â chi. Er bod y gyffordd hon ei hun yn cydymffurfio â'r rheolau, mae synnwyr cyffredin yn dweud nad yw'n ddiogel. Gellid dweud yr un peth am y gyffordd newydd ar ffordd osgoi Llanddewi Felffre-Croesffordd Maencoch—unwaith eto, cyffordd 90 gradd arall heb unrhyw ffordd ymadael ar ffordd brysur. A gaf i ofyn i’r ddwy gyffordd hon gael eu harchwilio ymhellach, a bod y rheoliadau a ddefnyddir i adeiladu’r cyffyrdd hyn yn cael eu diweddaru, gan ei bod yn amlwg o synnwyr cyffredin nad yw’r cyffyrdd hyn yn ddiogel, ond maent yn parhau i gael eu hadeiladu nid yn unig yn fy etholaeth i, ond ledled Cymru?
I'd like to thank the Member for his question. I'm very pleased to hear that the work at Nash Fingerpost junction has been well received. The issues that the Member raises regarding Red Roses and Redstone are familiar to me. I’ve been in discussions with the office of the Mid and West Wales Member, Eluned Morgan, over these very concerns. With regard to Red Roses, while the A477 Red Roses junction was designed to current standards and compliant at the time of its construction, driver behaviour is shown to be a major factor in the evidence collected to date. So, we’ve added a scheme to the 2025-26 programme to identify potential short-term safety interventions at that very junction.
With regard to the Redstone Cross junction, this was pushed for inclusion during key stage 2 of the public inquiry, and all options were reviewed as part of that inquiry. Now, I do acknowledge that there were safety issues at the original Redstone Cross junction and that there are ongoing concerns, some of which have been raised in correspondence by Narberth Town Council. So, the Welsh Government can promise that a safety audit will be undertaken, prior to the removal of traffic management and the opening of this scheme, and this will assess the constructed works and highlight any road safety issues. But I have also asked for a comprehensive briefing on this very matter.
Hoffwn ddiolch i’r Aelod am ei gwestiwn. Rwy'n falch iawn o glywed bod y gwaith ar gyffordd Mynegbost Nash wedi'i groesawu. Rwy'n ymwybodol o'r problemau y mae’r Aelod yn eu codi mewn perthynas â Rhos-goch a Maencoch. Rwyf wedi bod yn cynnal trafodaethau â swyddfa'r Aelod dros Ganolbarth a Gorllewin Cymru, Eluned Morgan, ynghylch yr union bryderon hyn. O ran Rhos-goch, er bod cyffordd Rhos-goch ar yr A477 wedi’i cynllunio yn unol â'r safonau cyfredol ac yn cydymffurfio pan gafodd ei hadeiladu, dangosir bod ymddygiad gyrwyr yn ffactor mawr yn y dystiolaeth a gasglwyd hyd yma. Felly, rydym wedi ychwanegu cynllun at raglen 2025-26 i nodi ymyriadau diogelwch tymor byr posibl ar yr union gyffordd honno.
Ar gyffordd Croesffordd Maencoch, gwthiwyd hyn i gael ei gynnwys yn ystod cyfnod allweddol 2 yr ymchwiliad cyhoeddus, ac adolygwyd yr holl opsiynau fel rhan o’r ymchwiliad hwnnw. Nawr, rwy'n cydnabod bod materion diogelwch ar gyffordd wreiddiol Croesffordd Maencoch a bod pryderon parhaus, gyda rhai ohonynt wedi'u codi mewn gohebiaeth gan Gyngor Tref Arberth. Felly, gall Llywodraeth Cymru addo y bydd archwiliad diogelwch yn cael ei gynnal, cyn bod yr holl fesurau rheoli traffig yn cael eu diddymu a'r cynllun hwn yn cychwyn, a bydd hyn yn asesu’r gwaith adeiladu ac yn tynnu sylw at unrhyw faterion diogelwch ffyrdd. Ond rwyf hefyd wedi gofyn am friff cynhwysfawr ar y mater.
Cwestiynau nawr gan lefarwyr y pleidiau. Llefarydd y Ceidwadwyr, Peter Fox.
Questions now from the party spokespeople. The Welsh Conservatives' spokesperson, Peter Fox.
Diolch, Llywydd. Cabinet Secretary, I know you will be aware of the worrying increase in freight crime across the United Kingdom. We’ve seen 5,500 reported incidents in 2023—an increase of 5 per cent on the previous year. The latest statistics show that £68.3 million of goods were stolen, with a cost of £700 million to the UK economy, and, of course, many of those haulage companies are small and medium-sized enterprises and, as such, freight crime is especially damaging to them. I’ve heard some quite harrowing stories, because often these things happen in lay-bys where fuel is taken or curtains on lorries are sliced open and produce taken out of the back. But a key issue not helping this worrying trend in Wales is the lack of areas for drivers to rest safely and securely with basic facilities, such as toilets. If these were available, crime would be reduced massively and drivers would have their basic welfare needs met. To date, little or nothing seems to be happening on this. Cabinet Secretary, what is being done to put these essential areas in place, and when can the haulage industry expect to see some of these?
Diolch, Lywydd. Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet, gwn y byddwch yn ymwybodol o’r cynnydd pryderus mewn troseddau cludo llwythi ledled y Deyrnas Unedig. Gwelsom adrodd am 5,500 o ddigwyddiadau yn 2023—cynnydd o 5 y cant ers y flwyddyn flaenorol. Mae’r ystadegau diweddaraf yn dangos bod gwerth £68.3 miliwn o nwyddau wedi’u dwyn, ar gost o £700 miliwn i economi’r DU, ac wrth gwrs, mae llawer o’r cwmnïau cludo nwyddau hynny'n fentrau bach a chanolig eu maint, ac o’r herwydd, mae troseddau cludo llwythi'n arbennig o niweidiol iddynt. Clywais straeon dirdynnol iawn, oherwydd yn aml, mae’r pethau hyn yn digwydd mewn cilfannau lle caiff tanwydd ei ddwyn, neu caiff llenni lorïau eu sleisio ar agor a chynnyrch yn cael ei ddwyn o’r cefn. Ond mater allweddol nad yw’n helpu’r duedd siomedig hon yng Nghymru yw’r diffyg mannau i yrwyr orffwys yn ddiogel gyda chyfleusterau sylfaenol, megis toiledau. Pe bai'r rhain ar gael, byddai nifer y troseddau'n lleihau'n aruthrol a byddai anghenion lles sylfaenol gyrwyr yn cael eu diwallu. Hyd yn hyn, nid yw'n ymddangos bod fawr ddim yn digwydd ar hyn. Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet, beth sy’n cael ei wneud i ddarparu'r mannau hanfodol hyn, a phryd y gall y diwydiant cludo nwyddau ddisgwyl gweld rhywfaint o’r rhain?
Well, can I thank the Member for his question? It’s an incredibly valuable one, and it’s very timely, because I discussed this matter with representatives of the freight sector in Dublin over the weekend, and I’ve also discussed it with representatives of the Welsh freight movement, including the Road Haulage Association. I think the Member is absolutely right that it’s caused incredible anxiety, the increase in crime. I’m also concerned that the lack of safe and accessible and affordable truck stops is a barrier for women entering the sector as well. It’s a very, very male-dominated sector, and I heard at the weekend, and I’ve heard previously, that one of the reasons is because women who want to get into employment in the sector are too scared to because of the lack of facilities. Now, I can assure the Member that this will be discussed not only as part of the Holyhead taskforce, given the vital role that truck stops play in ensuring that routes are attractive to the freight sector, but it will also be a key feature in the forthcoming freight strategy, from which we will take lessons regarding the Holyhead taskforce and implement them within that strategy.
Wel, a gaf i ddiolch i’r Aelod am ei gwestiwn? Mae’n un hynod werthfawr, ac mae’n amserol iawn, gan y bûm yn trafod y mater hwn gyda chynrychiolwyr o’r sector cludo llwythi yn Nulyn dros y penwythnos, ac rwyf hefyd wedi’i drafod â chynrychiolwyr o’r mudiad cludo llwythi yng Nghymru, gan gynnwys y Gymdeithas Cludo ar y Ffyrdd. Credaf fod yr Aelod yn llygad ei le fod y cynnydd mewn troseddu wedi achosi pryder anhygoel. Rwyf hefyd yn pryderu bod diffyg arosfannau lorïau diogel a hygyrch a fforddiadwy yn rhwystr i fenywod rhag ymuno â'r sector hefyd. Mae’n sector sy’n cael ei ddominyddu’n fawr iawn gan ddynion, a chlywais ar y penwythnos, ac rwyf wedi clywed o’r blaen, mai un o’r rhesymau yw bod gormod o ofn ar fenywod sydd am gael gwaith yn y sector oherwydd y diffyg cyfleusterau. Nawr, gallaf roi sicrwydd i'r Aelod y bydd hyn yn cael ei drafod nid yn unig fel rhan o dasglu Caergybi, o ystyried y rôl hanfodol y mae arosfannau lorïau yn ei chwarae i sicrhau bod llwybrau’n ddeniadol i’r sector cludo llwythi, ond bydd hefyd yn nodwedd allweddol yn y strategaeth cludo llwythi sydd ar y ffordd, y byddwn yn dysgu gwersi ohoni mewn perthynas â thasglu Caergybi ac yn eu rhoi ar waith o fewn y strategaeth honno.
Thank you, Cabinet Secretary. It’s reassuring that we’re on the same page on that. I think urgency is the key issue for the industry. They’ve been waiting an awfully long time, and I absolutely concur with your position regarding women drivers and the difficulties for them. So, let’s hope we see these things happening, but I think it needs to be across Wales as well, not necessarily just on the ports or the new zones, or whatever.
Cabinet Secretary, the pursuit of net zero is a noble one—we’re, mainly, all agreed on that—and it requires investment if it’s to be done well. Now, currently in Wales, there simply isn’t the infrastructure for rapid electric vehicle charging or hydrogen refuelling points for the freight industry to use across Wales. Now, this severely limits the ability or practicality of the sector to invest in its fleet and reduce its own carbon footprint, especially in a sector with such high overheads. Your Government’s national transport delivery plan outlines a few points of action, but no tangible targets to implementing policy. Cabinet Secretary, what targets will be put in place to ensure that Wales has sufficient rapid vehicle charging points and hydrogen fuel stations, to enable those in the freight industry who need or want to invest in the future, greener way of freight transport to do so?
Diolch, Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet. Mae'n galonogol ein bod ar yr un dudalen ar hynny. Credaf mai brys yw’r mater allweddol i’r diwydiant. Maent wedi bod yn aros ers amser hir iawn, ac rwy’n cytuno’n llwyr â’ch safbwynt ynghylch gyrwyr benywaidd a’r anawsterau sy'n eu hwynebu. Felly, gadewch inni obeithio y byddwn yn gweld y pethau hyn yn digwydd, ond credaf fod angen iddynt ddigwydd ledled Cymru hefyd, nid o reidrwydd yn y porthladdoedd neu’r parthau newydd neu beth bynnag yn unig.
Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet, mae'r ymgais i gyflawni sero net yn wych—mae pob un ohonom, at ei gilydd, yn cytuno ynglŷn â hynny—ac mae angen buddsoddiad os ydym am wneud hynny'n dda. Nawr, yng Nghymru ar hyn o bryd, nid oes seilwaith ar gyfer gwefru chwim na phwyntiau ail-lenwi hydrogen i’r diwydiant cludo llwythi eu defnyddio ledled Cymru. Nawr, mae hyn yn cyfyngu’n ddifrifol ar allu neu ymarferoldeb y sector i fuddsoddi yn ei fflyd a lleihau ei ôl troed carbon ei hun, yn enwedig mewn sector sydd â gorbenion mor uchel. Mae cynllun cyflawni cenedlaethol eich Llywodraeth ar gyfer trafnidiaeth yn amlinellu rhai pwyntiau gweithredu, ond dim targedau diriaethol ar gyfer gweithredu polisi. Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet, pa dargedau a gaiff eu rhoi ar waith i sicrhau bod gan Gymru ddigon o bwyntiau gwefru chwim a gorsafoedd tanwydd hydrogen i alluogi’r rheini yn y diwydiant cludo llwythi sydd angen neu sydd am fuddsoddi mewn ffordd wyrddach o gludo llwythi ar gyfer y dyfodol i wneud hynny?
Well, again, the Member raises an incredibly valuable point. I would add to it, though, that we also need to consider, particularly for SMEs, the prohibitive cost of alternative vehicles to traditional internal combustion engine-driven lorries. And that is a feature of discussions that are taking place at an inter-governmental level. We discussed, as Ministers, in the past two weeks, actually, from each of the devolved administrations, and the UK Government, this very need, as part of the race towards net zero, and how we can ensure that private sector operators can afford what are incredibly expensive vehicles. The same challenge affects the bus industry, and this is why I’m keen that TfW play a more interventionist role in acquiring electric buses and hydrogen buses, so that they could then lease them to operators—existing ones and new entrants to the market, as well, as part of franchising. So, we can do some exciting, innovative work in these areas.
I know that there’s a lot of innovation taking place in the hydrogen hub in north Wales. Equally, a huge amount of innovation has taken place in Swansea bay. So, there’s no shortage of ideas and innovation in Wales. The key is in exploiting the new developments in technology. And there is a very significant new development in technology in this area, and that comes with the development of the dry solid cell battery that could be found in vehicles towards the end of this decade. That will be an absolute game changer. Toyota are already, out in Japan, testing their dry solid cell battery technology, and it’s found already that vehicles are able to cover in excess of 600 miles. It’s hoped that the range will increase to around 900 miles with this technology, and that charging can take place within 15 to 20 minutes. That is a complete game changer in terms of the infrastructure that will be required. It’s incredibly exciting, not least because I wish to see those new electric motors built here in Wales, where we’ve got a proud record with Toyota of building engines. And it will answer many of the concerns that people have right now regarding infrastructure to support existing electric fleet, whereas actually what we need to be looking at is the new and emerging technology. It’s a bit like betting on Betamax when we know that VHS is going to win the war.
Wel, unwaith eto, mae’r Aelod yn codi pwynt hynod werthfawr. Hoffwn ychwanegu ato, fodd bynnag, fod angen i ni hefyd ystyried, yn enwedig ar gyfer busnesau bach a chanolig, cost afresymol cerbydau amgen o gymharu â lorïau ag injans tanio mewnol traddodiadol. Ac mae honno’n nodwedd o drafodaethau sy’n cael eu cynnal ar lefel rynglywodraethol. Yn ystod y pythefnos diwethaf mewn gwirionedd, buom yn trafod, fel Gweinidogion o bob un o’r gweinyddiaethau datganoledig a Llywodraeth y DU, yr union angen hwn, fel rhan o’r ras tuag at sero net, a sut y gallwn sicrhau y gall gweithredwyr y sector preifat fforddio’r cerbydau hynod ddrud hyn. Mae’r un her yn effeithio ar y diwydiant bysiau, a dyma pam fy mod yn awyddus i Trafnidiaeth Cymru chwarae rhan fwy ymyraethol wrth gaffael bysiau trydan a bysiau hydrogen, fel y gallant wedyn eu prydlesu i weithredwyr—rhai presennol a newydd-ddyfodiaid i’r farchnad hefyd, yn rhan o fasnachfreinio. Felly, gallwn wneud peth gwaith cyffrous, arloesol yn y meysydd hyn.
Gwn fod llawer o arloesi yn digwydd yn yr hyb hydrogen yng ngogledd Cymru. Yn yr un modd, mae llawer iawn o arloesi wedi bod yn digwydd ym mae Abertawe. Felly, nid oes prinder syniadau ac arloesedd yng Nghymru. Yr allwedd yw manteisio ar ddatblygiadau newydd mewn technoleg. Ac mae datblygiad newydd pwysig iawn mewn technoleg yn y maes hwn, sef datblygiad y batri cyflwr solet cell sych a allai fod mewn cerbydau erbyn diwedd y degawd. Bydd hynny'n chwyldroadol. Mae Toyota eisoes, allan yn Japan, yn profi eu technoleg batri cyflwr solet cell sych, a chanfuwyd eisoes fod cerbydau'n gallu teithio dros 600 milltir. Y gobaith yw y bydd y pellter teithio'n cynyddu i oddeutu 900 milltir gyda'r dechnoleg hon, ac y gellir gwefru o fewn 15 i 20 munud. Mae hynny'n chwyldroadol o ran y seilwaith y bydd ei angen. Mae’n hynod gyffrous, yn anad dim am fy mod eisiau gweld y moduron trydan newydd hynny’n cael eu hadeiladu yma yng Nghymru, lle mae gennym hanes balch o adeiladu injans gyda Toyota. A bydd yn ateb llawer o'r pryderon sydd gan bobl ar hyn o bryd ynghylch seilwaith i gefnogi'r fflyd drydan bresennol, gan mai'r hyn y mae angen inni edrych arno mewn gwirionedd yw'r dechnoleg newydd a'r dechnoleg ddatblygol. Mae braidd fel betio ar Betamax pan wyddom mai VHS sy'n mynd i ennill y rhyfel.
Thank you again for that. Of course, hydrogen-powered combustion engines are going to be fundamental for the freight industry, that’s probably the next step where we really do need to see accelerating pace, because those long-term investments need to really gear up for the future.
Moving on, another key part of decarbonisation is alleviating the reliance on private vehicles. We’ve heard some about that today. Sadly, Wales just does not have adequate public transport for people to use, and they’re therefore continuing to use their cars as a matter of practicality. I note that it was reported last week that Wales has two of the top-10 worst performing stations in Great Britain, with almost 12 per cent of journeys being delayed or cancelled. You would agree with me this simply is not good enough, especially considering the fact that councils such as Cardiff, for instance, are considering implementing congestion charges. So, alternative reliable modes of public transport have to be in place soon. Cabinet Secretary, can you outline why Wales has two of the worst performing stations in Great Britain, and what steps are being taken to address this?
Diolch eto am hynny. Wrth gwrs, mae injans tanio sy'n cael eu pweru gan hydrogen yn mynd i fod yn hollbwysig i'r diwydiant cludo llwythi, ac mae'n debyg mai dyna'r cam nesaf lle mae gwir angen inni weld datblygiadau'n cyflymu, gan fod angen i'r buddsoddiadau hirdymor hynny fod yn barod ar gyfer y dyfodol.
Gan symud ymlaen, rhan allweddol arall o ddatgarboneiddio yw lleihau'r ddibyniaeth ar gerbydau preifat. Rydym wedi clywed rhywfaint am hynny heddiw. Yn anffodus, nid oes gan Gymru drafnidiaeth gyhoeddus ddigonol i bobl ei defnyddio, ac felly maent yn parhau i ddefnyddio'u ceir fel mater o ymarferoldeb. Nodaf y cafwyd adroddiad yr wythnos diwethaf fod gan Gymru ddwy o’r 10 gorsaf sy’n perfformio waethaf ym Mhrydain, gyda bron i 12 y cant o deithiau’n cael eu gohirio neu eu canslo. Byddech yn cytuno â mi nad yw hyn yn ddigon da, yn enwedig o ystyried bod cynghorau fel Caerdydd, er enghraifft, yn ystyried cyflwyno taliadau atal tagfeydd. Felly, mae'n rhaid cael dulliau trafnidiaeth gyhoeddus amgen a dibynadwy ar waith yn fuan. Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet, a allwch amlinellu pam fod gan Gymru ddwy o’r gorsafoedd sy’n perfformio waethaf ym Mhrydain, a pha gamau sy’n cael eu cymryd i fynd i’r afael â hyn?
Yes. Those two stations are on the very same line. I met with Transport for Wales last week to interrogate the reasons for the poor performance on that line. I was assured that it is being addressed.
Now, across the network, of course, the performance has been increasing steadily and consistently. Whilst passenger journeys are up 13 per cent this year, so too is reliability; it now stands at 83.5 per cent. That’s 83.5 per cent of all Transport for Wales services arriving within three minutes of their scheduled time. That’s in no small part because of the huge investment, the £800 million that we are spending on new trains, including of course the electric trains that are operating on the core Valleys lines. By the end of the £800 million project, we’ll have taken the entire fleet from the just 270 trains that we inherited back in 2018 to 484, creating one of Britain’s newest fleets of trains and one of the largest as well for the size of our country.
Iawn. Mae'r ddwy orsaf hynny ar yr un llinell reilffordd. Cyfarfûm â Trafnidiaeth Cymru yr wythnos diwethaf i gwestiynu’r rhesymau dros y perfformiad gwael ar y llinell honno. Cefais sicrwydd eu bod yn mynd i'r afael â'r mater.
Nawr, ar draws y rhwydwaith mae’r perfformiad wedi bod yn gwella'n raddol ac yn gyson. Er bod siwrneiau teithwyr wedi cynyddu 13 y cant eleni, mae'r un peth yn wir am ddibynadwyedd; mae bellach yn 83.5 y cant. Dyna 83.5 y cant o holl wasanaethau Trafnidiaeth Cymru yn cyrraedd o fewn tri munud i'r amser a drefnwyd. Mae hynny i raddau helaeth oherwydd y buddsoddiad enfawr, yr £800 miliwn a wariwn ar drenau newydd, gan gynnwys y trenau trydan sy'n gweithredu ar linellau craidd y Cymoedd. Erbyn diwedd y prosiect £800 miliwn, byddwn wedi cynyddu’r fflyd o'r 270 o drenau a etifeddwyd gennym yn ôl yn 2018 i 484, gan greu un o fflydoedd trenau mwyaf newydd Prydain, ac un o’r mwyaf eu maint hefyd yn ein gwlad.
Llefarydd Plaid Cymru, Peredur Owen Griffiths.
Plaid Cymru spokesperson, Peredur Owen Griffiths.
Diolch, Llywydd. Cabinet Secretary, I want to ask you about the high speed 2 line and Labour’s newest version of your policy. Why has Labour removed the explicit call for HS2 to be redesignated as an England-only project, despite voting for it explicitly in 2023?
Diolch, Lywydd. Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet, hoffwn eich holi ynglŷn â rheilffordd cyflymder uchel 2 a fersiwn ddiweddaraf Llafur o'ch polisi. Pam fod Llafur wedi cael gwared ar yr alwad benodol i ailddynodi HS2 yn brosiect i Loegr yn unig, er ichi bleidleisio’n benodol dros hynny yn 2023?
HS2 has been an ongoing challenge, I would admit that. We’ve made regular calls for consequentials and for fair investment, and I’m delighted that, as a consequence of those regular calls, we now have a commitment, regardless of the classification, to invest in a pipeline of enhancements that amounts to a huge sum of money to address a historic underfunding of rail investment and to address the lack of consequentials for HS2, which amounts so far to around £400 million. I’ll put that into context: in an independent Wales, that would be lost within two months.
Mae HS2 wedi bod yn her barhaus, rwy'n cyfaddef hynny. Rydym wedi galw'n rheolaidd am gyllid canlyniadol ac am fuddsoddiad teg, ac rwyf wrth fy modd, o ganlyniad i’r galwadau rheolaidd hynny, fod gennym bellach ymrwymiad, ni waeth beth fo’r dosbarthiad, i fuddsoddi mewn gwelliannau arfaethedig sy’n werth swm enfawr o arian i fynd i’r afael â thanariannu hanesyddol mewn perthynas â buddsoddi yn y rheilffyrdd ac i fynd i’r afael â’r diffyg cyllid canlyniadol mewn perthynas â HS2, sy’n gyfanswm o oddeutu £400 miliwn hyd yma. Rhoddaf hynny yn ei gyd-destun: mewn Cymru annibynnol, byddai hynny wedi'i golli o fewn deufis.
But that doesn’t go to the inherent unfairness of the initial stance. It looks like you’ve been told by No. 10 to soften your stance. And fair play to you, you’ve complied by putting party loyalty ahead of Wales.
The Labour amendment to the debate that we’re going to be having later talks about an appropriate level of comparability with the UK Government programmes. Does that mean accepting less than the full HS2 consequential for the total spend of HS2, which you are on the record for as calling for £5 billion? Why has asking for the full consequential been removed from current Welsh Labour Government policy?
Ond nid yw hynny'n berthnasol i annhegwch cynhenid y safbwynt cychwynnol. Mae'n edrych fel pe bai Rhif 10 wedi dweud wrthych am leddfu'ch safbwynt. A chwarae teg i chi, rydych chi wedi cydymffurfio drwy roi teyrngarwch i'ch plaid o flaen Cymru.
Mae gwelliant Llafur i'r ddadl y byddwn yn ei chael yn nes ymlaen yn sôn am lefel briodol o gymharedd â rhaglenni Llywodraeth y DU. A yw hynny'n golygu derbyn llai na'r cyllid canlyniadol llawn ar gyfer cyfanswm gwariant HS2, y cofnodwyd eich bod wedi galw am £5 biliwn? Pam fod gofyn am y cyllid canlyniadol llawn wedi’i ddileu o bolisi presennol Llywodraeth Lafur Cymru?
So, you pick on a very, very specific technical point about the classification and comparability. That relates to us having acquired the core Valleys lines, so that, in the future, any consideration of a Barnett consequential can be set against the fact that we now have rail infrastructure, or at least part of Wales has rail infrastructure, in our hands. That will give us a benefit in terms of consequentials, regardless of whether it’s HS2 or any other programme that’s classified as England only, moving forward. With regard to HS2 funding, thus far around £400 million would have come our way. It’s based on your own figures that I say that that would be lost in the space of just two months in an independent Wales. It’s your own figures. The annual fiscal deficit of more than £2 billion means that £400 million would be lost, not on rail infrastructure improvements, but just in propping up existing services. Moving forward, what we are doing is working in partnership with the UK Government to address historic underfunding, which has been admitted for the very first time by UK Labour Ministers, and they are determined, like we are, to get the standard of infrastructure on our rail network up to scratch.
Rydych yn dewis pwynt technegol penodol iawn am y dosbarthiad a'r cymharedd. Mae a wnelo hynny â’r ffaith ein bod wedi caffael llinellau craidd y Cymoedd, fel y gellir gosod unrhyw ystyriaeth yn y dyfodol o gyllid canlyniadol Barnett yn erbyn y ffaith bod gennym bellach seilwaith rheilffyrdd, neu o leiaf fod gan ran o Gymru seilwaith rheilffyrdd, yn ein dwylo ni. Bydd hynny’n rhoi budd i ni o ran cyllid canlyniadol, ni waeth a yw’n HS2 neu’n unrhyw raglen arall a ddosberthir fel un i Loegr yn unig, wrth symud ymlaen. O ran cyllid HS2, hyd yn hyn, byddai oddeutu £400 miliwn wedi dod i ni. Ar sail ar eich ffigurau eich hun y dywedaf y byddai hynny wedi'i golli mewn deufis yn unig mewn Cymru annibynnol. Mae hynny ar sail eich ffigurau eich hun. Mae’r diffyg cyllidol blynyddol o fwy na £2 biliwn yn golygu y byddai £400 miliwn yn cael ei golli, nid ar welliannau i’r seilwaith rheilffyrdd, ond ar gynnal gwasanaethau presennol yn unig. Wrth symud ymlaen, yr hyn a wnawn yw gweithio mewn partneriaeth â Llywodraeth y DU i fynd i’r afael â thanariannu hanesyddol, a gyfaddefwyd am y tro cyntaf erioed gan Weinidogion Llafur y DU, ac maent yn benderfynol, fel ninnau, o godi safon y seilwaith ar ein rhwydwaith rheilffyrdd.
I'm so disappointed that Labour in Wales won't even stand by its own position. Only Plaid Cymru consistently stands up for Wales. You've had the chance to work with your party to deliver transformational change, as promised in the general election, but instead you settled for the sticking-plaster solutions. Labour's amendment later removes the call to update figures on Wales's rail funding shortfall. It welcomes the UK Government's acknowledgement of underfunding, but drops the explicit demand for it.
Does this mean that Labour in Wales is letting Westminster off the hook? Are you now happy to just respond to us at First Minister's questions and spokesperson's questions by saying, 'That's Keir Starmer's job', despite how vocal you were when somebody else was in power? The public do see through this; they see through the hypocrisy. When it comes to the 2026 elections, they will remember who put Wales first and who put party first. Is it time to u-turn on a u-turn, or are we on a road to nowhere?
Rwyf mor siomedig na wnaiff Llafur yng Nghymru gadw at ei safbwynt ei hun hyd yn oed. Dim ond Plaid Cymru sy’n sefyll o blaid Cymru yn gyson. Rydych wedi cael cyfle i weithio gyda'ch plaid i gyflawni newid trawsnewidiol, fel yr addawyd yn yr etholiad cyffredinol, ond yn hytrach, fe wnaethoch setlo am ddatrysiadau dros dro. Mae gwelliant Llafur yn nes ymlaen yn cael gwared ar yr alwad i ddarparu ffigurau wedi’u diweddaru ar y diffyg buddsoddiad i wella’r rheilffyrdd yng Nghymru. Mae’n croesawu cydnabyddiaeth Llywodraeth y DU o danariannu, ond yn dileu'r alwad benodol am yr arian hwnnw.
A yw hyn yn golygu bod Llafur yng Nghymru yn gwneud esgusodion dros San Steffan? A ydych chi nawr yn hapus i ymateb i gwestiynau’r Prif Weinidog a chwestiynau’r llefarwyr drwy ddweud, 'Dyna swydd Keir Starmer’, er mor uchel eich cloch oeddech chi pan oedd rhywun arall wrth y llyw? Mae'r cyhoedd yn gweld drwy hyn; maent yn gweld drwy'r rhagrith. Yn etholiadau 2026, byddant yn cofio pwy roddodd Gymru'n gyntaf a phwy roddodd eu plaid yn gyntaf. A yw'n bryd gwneud tro pedol ar dro pedol, neu a ydym ni ar y ffordd i unman?
I am disappointed by what I've heard. It is nonsense. You want independence, do you not? Do you want independent? Do you wish to see independence happen?
Rwyf wedi fy siomi gan yr hyn a glywais. Mae'n nonsens. Rydych chi eisiau annibyniaeth, onid ydych? A ydych chi eisiau bod yn annibynnol? A ydych chi eisiau gweld annibyniaeth yn digwydd?
Yes, of course, but—
Ydw, wrth gwrs, ond—
Of course. So, you are willing to inflict more than £2 billion of damage—[Interruption.] Two billion pounds of damage in Wales every single year. [Interruption.] With regard to HS2 and rail, for the first time—
Wrth gwrs. Felly, rydych chi'n fodlon achosi mwy na £2 biliwn o niwed—[Torri ar draws.] Dau biliwn o bunnoedd o niwed yng Nghymru bob blwyddyn. [Torri ar draws.] O ran HS2 a’r rheilffyrdd, am y tro cyntaf—
Look, allow the Minister to answer the question that was asked by Peredur Owen Griffiths.
Edrychwch, gadewch i'r Gweinidog ateb y cwestiwn a ofynnwyd gan Peredur Owen Griffiths.
You are running away from your own figures.
Rydych chi'n rhedeg i ffwrdd oddi wrth eich ffigurau eich hun.
Can I ask the other Members of Plaid Cymru to please—
A gaf i ofyn i Aelodau eraill Plaid Cymru, os gwelwch yn dda—
You want independence, so you're willing to inflict more than—. On your own figures. And I actually prefer to rely on the figures of academic experts, who put the figure at around £13 billion, in which case, £400 million would be gone in days—[Interruption.] In days. Instead, what we're doing is focusing on delivery, on working in partnership with those at Westminster to invest in the rail network in a way that you would never be able to in an independent Wales. It would suffer as a result of what you want.
Rydych chi eisiau annibyniaeth, felly rydych chi'n fodlon achosi mwy na—. Yn ôl eich ffigurau eich hun. Ac mewn gwirionedd, mae'n well gennyf ddibynnu ar ffigurau arbenigwyr academaidd, a nododd fod y ffigur oddeutu £13 biliwn, ac os felly, byddai £400 miliwn wedi mynd mewn dyddiau—[Torri ar draws.] Mewn dyddiau. Yn hytrach, yr hyn rydym ni'n ei wneud yw canolbwyntio ar gyflawni, ar weithio mewn partneriaeth â’r rheini yn San Steffan i fuddsoddi yn y rhwydwaith rheilffyrdd mewn ffordd na fyddech chi byth yn gallu ei gwneud mewn Cymru annibynnol. Byddai'n dioddef o ganlyniad i'r hyn rydych chi ei eisiau.
3. Pa fesurau sydd gan Lywodraeth Cymru ar waith i sicrhau bod Trafnidiaeth Cymru yn cael ei redeg fel busnes cystadleuol ac effeithlon? OQ62424
3. What measures does the Welsh Government have in place to ensure that Transport for Wales is being run as a competitive and efficient business? OQ62424
I'm continuously reviewing how we monitor the performance of Transport of Wales, and I've recently strengthened scrutiny arrangements through increasing the frequency of my challenge sessions with the chair and chief accounting officer to monthly, and commissioned additional regular updates on the core Valleys lines and rail performance, and publishing operational and corporate key performance indicators.
Rwy’n adolygu’n barhaus sut yr awn ati i fonitro perfformiad Trafnidiaeth Cymru, ac yn ddiweddar rwyf wedi cryfhau trefniadau craffu drwy gynyddu amlder fy sesiynau herio gyda’r cadeirydd a’r prif swyddog cyfrifyddu fel eu bod yn digwydd yn fisol, ac wedi comisiynu diweddariadau rheolaidd ychwanegol ar linellau craidd y Cymoedd a pherfformiad rheilffyrdd, a chyhoeddi dangosyddion perfformiad allweddol gweithredol a chorfforaethol.
Diolch yn fawr, Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet. That sounds very promising. But following a concern raised with me by a Transport for Wales train driver, my office submitted a freedom of information request to TfW in relation to its drivers and conductors and their driving patterns. For the time period requested, TfW, by their own figures, had 89 drivers and 70 conductors, more than is needed to run the service. This equates to an excess wage bill of over £8 million per year. Spare drivers work a shift, but are not allocated a route that day; they are on standby in the depot in case a scheduled driver cannot do that route for whatever reason. On average, there are 11 drivers and six conductors extra per day, but I am informed that they have regularly three times that number just sitting in the depot.
Now, I appreciate, Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet, why these spare drivers and conductors are needed to minimise cancellations and delays, but I'm told this is considerably higher than in the days when Arriva ran the service. Cabinet Secretary, will you look into this to see if TfW is running as efficiently as possible whilst also maintaining the best service possible? Diolch yn fawr.
Diolch yn fawr, Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet. Mae hynny'n swnio'n addawol iawn. Ond yn dilyn pryder a godwyd gyda mi gan yrrwr trên Trafnidiaeth Cymru, cyflwynodd fy swyddfa gais rhyddid gwybodaeth i Trafnidiaeth Cymru mewn perthynas â’i yrwyr a’i gasglwyr tocynnau a’u patrymau gyrru. Am y cyfnod y gofynnwyd amdano, roedd gan Trafnidiaeth Cymru, yn ôl eu ffigurau eu hunain, 89 o yrwyr a 70 o gasglwyr tocynnau, mwy na sydd ei angen i redeg y gwasanaeth. Mae hyn yn cyfateb i fil cyflog gormodol o dros £8 miliwn y flwyddyn. Mae gyrwyr wrth gefn yn gweithio shifftiau, ond ni ddyrennir llwybr iddynt y diwrnod hwnnw; maent wrth law yn y depo rhag ofn na all y gyrrwr a drefnwyd wneud y llwybr hwnnw am ba bynnag reswm. Ar gyfartaledd, mae 11 o yrwyr a chwe chasglwr tocynnau ychwanegol y dydd, ond dywedir wrthyf fod ganddynt deirgwaith y nifer hwnnw yn aml yn eistedd yn y depo.
Nawr, Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet, rwy'n derbyn pam fod angen y gyrwyr a'r casglwyr tocynnau wrth gefn hyn i leihau nifer y gwasanaethau sy'n cael eu canslo neu sy'n hwyr, ond dywedir wrthyf fod y niferoedd yn sylweddol uwch nag yn y dyddiau pan oedd Arriva yn rhedeg y gwasanaeth. Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet, a wnewch chi ymchwilio i hyn i weld a yw Trafnidiaeth Cymru yn rhedeg mor effeithlon â phosibl, ac ar yr un pryd, yn cynnal y gwasanaeth gorau posibl? Diolch yn fawr.
Yes, of course, I will look into this issue. Of course, we do have a conductor on every train, which is somewhat unique in Britain, and we do that because we value the role that conductors play in guaranteeing safety on our trains. As a result of having so many valuable members of staff, we're also able to operate with fewer cancellations than many, many other train operating companies. For example, at the moment, Avanti, I believe, has a cancellation rate of around 13.5 per cent, compared to 5.5 per cent for Transport for Wales. So, clearly, having staff on standby helps to avoid cancellations, but I will, of course, raise this matter with TfW.
Fe edrychaf ar y mater hwn. Wrth gwrs, mae gennym gasglwr tocynnau ar bob trên, sy'n eithaf unigryw ym Mhrydain, ac rydym yn gwneud hynny am ein bod yn gwerthfawrogi'r rôl y mae casglwyr tocynnau yn ei chwarae yn gwarantu diogelwch ar ein trenau. O ganlyniad i gael cymaint o aelodau gwerthfawr o staff, rydym hefyd yn gallu gweithredu gan ganslo llai o wasanaethau na llawer iawn o weithredwyr trenau eraill. Er enghraifft, ar hyn o bryd, mae gan Avanti gyfradd ganslo o oddeutu 13.5 y cant, o gymharu â 5.5 y cant ar gyfer Trafnidiaeth Cymru. Felly, yn amlwg, mae cael staff wrth gefn yn helpu i osgoi canslo gwasanaethau, ond wrth gwrs, fe godaf y mater gyda Trafnidiaeth Cymru.
In December 2023, the Welsh Government told the committee that the uplift received was not enough and that farebox revenue needed to increase. However, for some passengers, as highlighted by the most recent rail user survey, Transport for Wales rail fares are already seen as being expensive. And I know that the ticket to get from Llandudno Junction, now, to Cardiff, which was £110 is now £117, and the man at the ticket office said to me, 'And they're going up again soon.' So, I'd like some clarification on that.
It is also known and accepted that affordable fares are the key to increasing rail passenger numbers, and it will, in turn, decrease the need for public subsidy. Now, I understand that you've done a deal, as part of passing the Government's budget, with the Welsh Liberal Democrat, for a £15 million pilot offering bus travel anywhere in Wales for people aged 16 to 21 for £1. What assessment has the Cabinet Secretary made of this reduction in bus fares and what impact that will have on rail patronage? And with the loss of nearly £300 million last year, how are you going to address that, so that you get Transport for Wales being less subsidised, with more passenger usage, and really, doing what it should be doing?
Ym mis Rhagfyr 2023, dywedodd Llywodraeth Cymru wrth y pwyllgor nad oedd y cynnydd a gafwyd yn ddigon a bod angen i refeniw tocynnau gynyddu. Fodd bynnag, i rai teithwyr, fel y nodwyd yn yr arolwg defnyddwyr rheilffyrdd diweddaraf, mae prisiau tocynnau trên Trafnidiaeth Cymru eisoes yn cael eu hystyried yn ddrud. A gwn fod y tocyn o Gyffordd Llandudno i Gaerdydd, a oedd yn £110, bellach yn £117, a dywedodd y dyn yn y swyddfa docynnau wrthyf, 'Ac maent yn codi eto cyn bo hir.' Felly, hoffwn gael eglurhad ar hynny.
Cydnabyddir a derbynnir mai prisiau fforddiadwy yw'r ateb allweddol i gynyddu nifer y teithwyr rheilffordd, ac y byddant, yn eu tro, yn lleihau’r angen am gymhorthdal cyhoeddus. Nawr, rwy’n deall eich bod wedi taro bargen, wrth basio cyllideb y Llywodraeth, gyda'r Democrat Rhyddfrydol Cymreig, i gael cynllun peilot gwerth £15 miliwn i gynnig teithio ar fysiau am £1 yn unrhyw le yng Nghymru i bobl 16 i 21 oed. Pa asesiad y mae Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet wedi’i wneud o’r gostyngiad hwn ym mhrisiau tocynnau bws a pha effaith a gaiff hynny ar y defnydd o drenau? A chyda cholled o bron i £300 miliwn y llynedd, sut yr ewch chi i'r afael â hynny, fel bod Trafnidiaeth Cymru yn cael llai o gymhorthdal, gyda mwy o ddefnydd gan deithwyr, a gwneud yr hyn y dylai fod yn ei wneud mewn gwirionedd?
The Member raises a number of important points and questions. First of all, I'd like to thank her for drawing attention to the budget deal with the Welsh Liberal Democrats, which will mean that 0.25 million young people in Wales benefit from a capped fare of just £1 and a capped daily fare of £3—a huge, huge boost to young people in Wales wishing to access education and employment. The farebox gathered by Transport for Wales is at the point of smashing through £200 million a year, so the farebox has increased quite substantially, along with the number of services—more train services being operated than ever before and many, many, many services on brand-new trains as a result of our £800 million investment in rolling stock.
There are, of course, regulated and unregulated fares and I've long argued for reform of what is a very complicated and, in part, unfair fare regime. I'm delighted to say that, as part of UK Government proposals for rail reform, with the work that's being taken forward to create Great British Railways, we will finally see the issue of unfair fares and inconsistency of the fare regime addressed.
Mae’r Aelod yn codi nifer o bwyntiau a chwestiynau pwysig. Yn gyntaf oll, hoffwn ddiolch iddi am dynnu sylw at y fargen gyllidebol gyda'r Democrat Rhyddfrydol Cymreig, a fydd yn golygu bod 0.25 miliwn o bobl ifanc yng Nghymru yn elwa ar docyn wedi’i gapio ar £1 yn unig a phris tocyn dyddiol wedi’i gapio ar £3—hwb enfawr i bobl ifanc yng Nghymru sy’n dymuno cael mynediad at addysg a chyflogaeth. Mae’r refeniw tocynnau a gasglwyd gan Trafnidiaeth Cymru ar fin pasio £200 miliwn y flwyddyn, felly mae’r refeniw tocynnau wedi cynyddu’n eithaf sylweddol, ynghyd â nifer y gwasanaethau—mwy o wasanaethau trên yn cael eu gweithredu nag erioed o’r blaen a llawer iawn o wasanaethau ar drenau newydd sbon o ganlyniad i’n buddsoddiad o £800 miliwn mewn cerbydau.
Wrth gwrs, mae yna brisiau siwrneiau wedi'u rheoleiddio a heb eu rheoleiddio, ac rwyf wedi dadlau ers amser maith dros ddiwygio'r drefn brisiau gymhleth iawn hon sydd weithiau'n annheg. Rwy'n falch iawn o ddweud, yn rhan o gynigion Llywodraeth y DU ar gyfer diwygio'r rheilffyrdd, gyda'r gwaith sy'n mynd rhagddo i greu Great British Railways, y byddwn o'r diwedd yn gweld mater prisiau annheg ac anghysondeb y drefn brisiau siwrneiau yn cael sylw.
4. Pa drafodaethau y mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn eu cael gyda Trafnidiaeth Cymru ynghylch gwell cysylltedd trafnidiaeth ar gyfer Eisteddfod Genedlaethol 2025 yn Wrecsam? OQ62421
4. What discussions is the Welsh Government having with Transport for Wales regarding improved transport connectivity for the 2025 National Eisteddfod in Wrexham? OQ62421
Discussions are ongoing between the Eisteddfod, Transport for Wales and Wrexham County Borough Council about a co-ordinated transport plan. We saw last year in Pontypridd how a collaborative approach delivered excellent public transport provision, and it was the greenest Eisteddfod ever. So, I want to see the same level of provision in Wrexham.
Mae trafodaethau’n parhau rhwng yr Eisteddfod, Trafnidiaeth Cymru a Chyngor Bwrdeistref Sirol Wrecsam ynglŷn â chynllun trafnidiaeth cydgysylltiedig. Gwelsom y llynedd ym Mhontypridd sut y sicrhawyd darpariaeth trafnidiaeth gyhoeddus ragorol drwy ddull cydweithredol, a honno oedd yr Eisteddfod wyrddaf erioed. Felly, hoffwn weld yr un lefel o ddarpariaeth yn Wrecsam.
Thank you very much for that answer, Cabinet Secretary. As you say, we know, based on the experience of Pontypridd last year, but also the last occasion that Wrexham hosted the National Eisteddfod back in 2011, the importance of very reliable and efficient transport links to ensure that visitors are able to get to the maes easily. Last week, I had a very productive meeting with Transport for Wales, and I was very pleased to hear of the work currently being undertaken, as you say, by themselves, by Arriva UK Bus, Wrexham County Borough Council and the Welsh Government to ensure that that absolutely happens in August again. So, will the Cabinet Secretary ensure that these positive discussions continue, and that we have adequate funding to ensure that the visitors to the National Eisteddfod are able to have those excellent transport links?
Diolch am eich ateb, Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet. Fel y dywedwch, yn seiliedig ar y profiad ym Mhontypridd y llynedd, ond hefyd y tro diwethaf i Wrecsam gynnal yr Eisteddfod Genedlaethol yn ôl yn 2011, fe wyddom pa mor bwysig yw cysylltiadau trafnidiaeth dibynadwy ac effeithlon i sicrhau bod ymwelwyr yn gallu cyrraedd y maes yn hawdd. Yr wythnos diwethaf, cefais gyfarfod cynhyrchiol iawn gyda Trafnidiaeth Cymru, ac roeddwn yn falch iawn o glywed am y gwaith sy’n mynd rhagddo ar hyn o bryd, fel y dywedwch, ganddynt hwy, gan Arriva UK Bus, Cyngor Bwrdeistref Sirol Wrecsam a Llywodraeth Cymru i sicrhau bod hynny’n digwydd eto ym mis Awst. Felly, a wnaiff Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet sicrhau bod y trafodaethau cadarnhaol hyn yn parhau, a bod gennym gyllid digonol i sicrhau bod ymwelwyr â’r Eisteddfod Genedlaethol yn gallu cael y cysylltiadau trafnidiaeth rhagorol hynny?
Can I thank Lesley for her supplementary question? I'm very grateful to her for raising this issue today. I've got fond memories of the 2011 Eisteddfod, when Mark Drakeford came to stay with me and we didn't have the standard of public transport that we have today, so we had to drive to the maes. But, with this Eisteddfod, I believe that it will be different. Now, of course, the site is further away from a train station than was the case in Pontypridd. I think in Pontypridd it took about seven minutes to walk to the maes from the train station. It's two hours in Wrexham, we believe, so walking will not be the option that it was in Pontypridd. So, I have asked Transport for Wales to plan shuttle services to and from the railway station, and to ensure that the bus network is operating efficiently to provide opportunities for as many people as possible to get to and from the Eisteddfod by bus.
A gaf i ddiolch i Lesley am ei chwestiwn atodol? Rwy’n ddiolchgar iawn iddi am godi’r mater hwn heddiw. Mae gennyf atgofion melys o Eisteddfod 2011, pan ddaeth Mark Drakeford i aros gyda mi, ac nid oedd gennym drafnidiaeth gyhoeddus o'r un safon ag sydd gennym heddiw, felly bu'n rhaid inni yrru i'r maes. Ond gyda’r Eisteddfod hon, rwy'n credu y bydd pethau'n wahanol. Nawr, wrth gwrs, mae’r safle ymhellach i ffwrdd o orsaf drenau nag ym Mhontypridd. Ym Mhontypridd, rwy'n credu ei bod yn cymryd oddeutu saith munud i gerdded i'r maes o'r orsaf drenau. Credwn y byddai'n cymryd dwy awr yn Wrecsam, felly ni fydd cerdded yn opsiwn fel yr oedd ym Mhontypridd. Felly, rwyf wedi gofyn i Trafnidiaeth Cymru gynllunio gwasanaethau gwennol yn ôl ac ymlaen o'r orsaf reilffordd, ac i sicrhau bod y rhwydwaith bysiau’n gweithredu’n effeithlon er mwyn darparu cyfleoedd i gynifer o bobl â phosibl fynd a dod o’r Eisteddfod ar fws.
I'm grateful to the Member for Wrexham for raising this today, because people in north Wales—and Wrexham in particular—are very excited about the Eisteddfod coming to their patch in the summer. Beyond the summer, Cabinet Secretary, we want to continue to see major events in Wrexham because it's such a welcoming place, but there are challenges around some of the transport links there.
You will be aware, Cabinet Secretary, of proposals from WSMR in relation to a direct rail link from Wrexham train station through to London, which opens up Wrexham beyond its locality, to attract more visitors, and hopefully attract more events into the area, supporting the local economy. You will also be aware that it's making good progress, and I wonder whether you would be able to continue today, in this Chamber, to put your voice of support to that project, so that we can see that direct rail link—much more regular, much more accessible to people—from Wrexham through to London. Diolch yn fawr iawn.
Rwy'n ddiolchgar i'r Aelod dros Wrecsam am godi hyn heddiw, oherwydd mae pobl yng ngogledd Cymru—a Wrecsam yn arbennig—yn gyffrous iawn fod yr Eisteddfod yn dod i'w hardal hwy yn yr haf. Y tu hwnt i'r haf, Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet, rydym am barhau i weld digwyddiadau mawr yn Wrecsam oherwydd ei fod yn lle mor groesawgar, ond mae heriau ynghylch rhai o'r cysylltiadau trafnidiaeth yno.
Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet, fe wyddoch am gynigion gan WSMR mewn perthynas â chysylltiad rheilffordd uniongyrchol o orsaf drenau Wrecsam drwodd i Lundain, sy'n agor Wrecsam i'r byd y tu hwnt i'w hardal leol, i ddenu mwy o ymwelwyr, a gobeithio, i ddenu mwy o ddigwyddiadau i'r ardal, i gefnogi'r economi leol. Fe fyddwch yn gwybod hefyd ei fod yn gwneud cynnydd da, ac a fyddech chi'n gallu parhau heddiw, yn y Siambr hon, i roi gair o gefnogaeth i'r prosiect hwnnw, fel y gallwn weld y cyswllt rheilffordd uniongyrchol hwnnw—llawer mwy rheolaidd, llawer mwy hygyrch i bobl—o Wrecsam drwodd i Lundain. Diolch yn fawr iawn.
Can I thank Sam Rowlands for his question? There is, indeed, a huge amount of excitement in Wrexham about the Eisteddfod and, of course, other developments—the football museum, the rise of the football club itself, the development of the Wrexham gateway, the ongoing success of the development bank, which is HQ'd there, investment, and a huge increase in tourism. There is an immense amount taking place in Wrexham that we can be proud of.
I am supportive of more rail services that better connect our communities. To have the service that Sam Rowlands has just outlined would be a huge boost for Wrexham. There is one caveat that I would place on it, which is that no new service should compromise existing services. They have to be able to work in a compatible way. I spoke with a number of organisations this week about that very initiative, including the lead member for transport on Wrexham County Borough Council and the Wrexham-Bidston Rail Users' Association. There is a huge amount of enthusiasm for it. I know that there are a few challenges that remain to be resolved, and we are making representations over them.
A gaf i ddiolch i Sam Rowlands am ei gwestiwn? Yn wir, mae llawer iawn o gyffro yn Wrecsam am yr Eisteddfod a datblygiadau eraill wrth gwrs—yr amgueddfa bêl-droed, cynnydd y clwb pêl-droed ei hun, datblygiad porth Wrecsam, llwyddiant parhaus y banc datblygu, sydd â'i bencadlys yno, buddsoddiad, a chynnydd enfawr mewn twristiaeth. Mae llawer iawn yn digwydd yn Wrecsam y gallwn fod yn falch ohono.
Rwy'n cefnogi mwy o wasanaethau rheilffordd sy'n cysylltu ein cymunedau yn well. Byddai cael y gwasanaeth y mae Sam Rowlands newydd ei amlinellu yn hwb enfawr i Wrecsam. Mae un cafeat y byddwn yn ei roi, sef na ddylai unrhyw wasanaeth newydd beryglu gwasanaethau presennol. Rhaid iddynt allu gweithio mewn ffordd gydnaws â'i gilydd. Siaradais â nifer o sefydliadau yr wythnos hon am y fenter honno, gan gynnwys yr aelod arweiniol dros drafnidiaeth ar Gyngor Bwrdeistref Sirol Wrecsam a Chymdeithas Defnyddwyr Rheilffordd Wrecsam-Bidston. Mae yna lawer iawn o frwdfrydedd yn ei gylch. Rwy'n gwybod bod heriau i'w datrys o hyd, ac rydym yn codi llais dros weld hynny'n digwydd.

5. Pa gamau y mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn eu cymryd i gryfhau gwytnwch croesiad Pont Britannia? OQ62446
5. What action is the Welsh Government taking to enhance the resilience of the Britannia Bridge crossing? OQ62446
The north Wales transport commission report into improving the Menai crossings' resilience made 16 specific recommendations. The first six recommendations were identified as priorities, and detailed feasibility work is now under way. This includes improving junctions and carriageway alignments, introducing wind deflectors to the Britannia bridge, and, of course, enhancements for walking, wheeling and cycling.
Gwnaeth adroddiad comisiwn trafnidiaeth gogledd Cymru ar wella gwytnwch croesfannau Menai 16 argymhelliad penodol. Nodwyd y chwe argymhelliad cyntaf fel blaenoriaethau, ac mae gwaith dichonoldeb manwl bellach ar y gweill. Mae hyn yn cynnwys gwella cyffyrdd ac aliniadau cerbytffyrdd, cyflwyno taflwyr gwynt ar bont Britannia, a gwelliannau ar gyfer cerdded, olwyno a beicio.
Diolch am yr ateb yna.
Thank you for that response.
I'm grateful for the response, but I am deeply frustrated that things are taking so long. It's 15 months since the commission reported. I received a letter from the Cabinet Secretary explaining that feasibility studies were under way. It's over a year since the previous transport Minister said that feasibility studies were being procured. It's over 10 years since I was asking for the three-lane option to be studied in detail.
We then won the case for a new bridge. That was taken away from us, and we have here a vulnerable crossing that risks isolating Ynys Môn at a time when we are experiencing more and more fierce storms that can lead to the closure of the bridge, and this on a key road to a port that the Cabinet Secretary, I know, wants to see being supported for the future.
I get the feeling, time and time again—not just month after month but year after year—of a Government kicking this into the long grass. When can we have a timetable on moving forward, and can we have an assurance that that still does include a three-lane option as an immediate possibility too?
Rwy'n ddiolchgar am yr ymateb, ond rwy'n rhwystredig iawn fod pethau'n cymryd cymaint o amser. Mae'n 15 mis ers i'r comisiwn gyflwyno'i adroddiad. Derbyniais lythyr gan Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet yn esbonio bod astudiaethau dichonoldeb ar y gweill. Mae dros flwyddyn ers i'r Gweinidog trafnidiaeth blaenorol ddweud bod astudiaethau dichonoldeb yn cael eu caffael. Mae dros 10 mlynedd ers imi ofyn am astudio'r opsiwn tair lôn yn fanwl.
Yna fe wnaethom ennill yr achos dros bont newydd. Cawsom ein hamddifadu o honno, ac mae gennym groesfan agored i niwed yma sy'n creu perygl o ynysu Ynys Môn ar adeg pan ydym yn gweld stormydd mwy a mwy ffyrnig a all arwain at gau'r bont, a hyn ar ffordd allweddol at borthladd y mae Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet am ei weld yn cael ei gefnogi ar gyfer y dyfodol.
Dro ar ôl tro, fe gaf y teimlad—nid fis ar ôl mis ond flwyddyn ar ôl blwyddyn—fod yma Lywodraeth sy'n gohirio gweithredu ar hyn. Pa bryd y cawn ni amserlen ar gyfer symud ymlaen, ac a allwn ni gael sicrwydd fod hynny'n dal i gynnwys opsiwn tair lôn fel posibilrwydd ar unwaith hefyd?
I think the Member does raise important points here: the intervention that we are taking forward on the Britannia bridge, on the Menai bridge, and also the need to continue to consider the prospect of a third crossing over the Menai strait. The work that's taking place at the moment does not rule out a third crossing. I do believe that we need to do more in the short to medium term to improve the resilience of the existing crossings. That's why the work on the Menai bridge is commencing again this month, and it will be completed in time for the two-hundredth anniversary of the bridge. The regional transport plan as well, which is out for consultation, identifies how vulnerable Anglesey is as a result of having two crossings, both of which are subject to either restrictions or to severe weather patterns. I am committed to taking forward the six priorities, but I will provide the Member with an indicative time frame for delivery, because I think that is exactly what people need to have. People need to know on Ynys Môn when they can expect the Menai strait to have a more resilient set of crossings.
Rwy'n credu bod yr Aelod yn codi pwyntiau pwysig yma: yr ymyrraeth yr ydym yn bwrw ymlaen â hi ar bont Britannia, ar bont Menai, a hefyd yr angen i barhau i ystyried y posibilrwydd o drydedd groesfan dros y Fenai. Nid yw'r gwaith sy'n digwydd ar hyn o bryd yn diystyru trydedd groesfan. Rwy'n credu bod angen inni wneud mwy yn y tymor byr i'r tymor canolig i wella gwytnwch y croesfannau presennol. Dyna pam y mae'r gwaith ar bont Menai yn dechrau eto y mis hwn, a bydd yn cael ei gwblhau mewn pryd ar gyfer daucanmlwyddiant y bont. Mae'r cynllun trafnidiaeth rhanbarthol hefyd, sy'n destun ymgynghori ar hyn y bryd, yn nodi pa mor fregus yw Ynys Môn o ganlyniad i gael dwy groesfan, gyda'r naill fel y llall yn ddarostyngedig i gyfyngiadau neu batrymau tywydd garw. Rwyf wedi ymrwymo i fwrw ymlaen â'r chwe blaenoriaeth, ond byddaf yn darparu amserlen ddangosol i'r Aelod ar gyfer cyflawni, oherwydd fy mod yn credu mai dyna'n union sydd angen i bobl ei gael. Mae angen i bobl wybod ar Ynys Môn pryd y gallant ddisgwyl i'r Fenai gael set fwy gwydn o groesfannau.
6. Sut mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn gweithio gyda Cyfoeth Naturiol Cymru ac awdurdodau lleol i sicrhau cadernid y rhwydwaith priffyrdd yn erbyn llifogydd? OQ62434
6. How is the Welsh Government working with Natural Resources Wales and local authorities to ensure the resilience of the highway network against flooding? OQ62434
The Welsh Government collaborates closely with Natural Resources Wales and local authorities to enhance the resilience of the highway network against flooding. This partnership involves strategic planning, funding allocations and the execution of specific projects aimed at mitigating flood risks.
Mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn cydweithio'n agos â Cyfoeth Naturiol Cymru ac awdurdodau lleol i wella gwytnwch y rhwydwaith priffyrdd rhag llifogydd. Mae'r bartneriaeth hon yn cynnwys cynllunio strategol, dyraniadau ariannol a gweithredu prosiectau penodol gyda'r nod o liniaru risgiau llifogydd.
Many rural lanes and roads are damaged by the run-off from fields, blocked ditches, culverts and other private land. Under riparian law, landowners are responsible for the management of these, including at the side of highways, and many might not know. Drainage and highway officers at councils have asked the Welsh Government to provide support to inform landowners that it's their responsibility. There seems to be some confusion as to who's responsible for them. It has been suggested that a leaflet or some other resource could be given to landowners. It would be a really useful tool in this, and I was wondering if it was something you would consider. Earlier, at committee, we were asking NRW about this and they said that there's information on their website, but I don't think that's enough, really, as a tool. So, could you look at doing this, working with the Welsh Local Government Association?
Mae llawer o lonydd a ffyrdd gwledig yn cael eu difrodi gan ddŵr ffo o gaeau, ffosydd wedi'u blocio, ceuffosydd a thir preifat arall. O dan gyfraith glannau afon, tirfeddianwyr sy'n gyfrifol am reoli'r rhain, gan gynnwys ar ochr priffyrdd, ac efallai na fydd llawer ohonynt yn gwybod hynny. Mae swyddogion draenio a phriffyrdd mewn cynghorau wedi gofyn i Lywodraeth Cymru ddarparu cymorth i roi gwybod i dirfeddianwyr mai eu cyfrifoldeb hwy yw hyn. Mae'n ymddangos bod dryswch ynghylch pwy sy'n gyfrifol amdanynt. Awgrymwyd y gellid rhoi taflen neu adnodd arall i dirfeddianwyr. Byddai'n offeryn defnyddiol iawn yn hyn o beth, ac roeddwn i'n meddwl tybed a oedd yn rhywbeth y byddech chi'n ei ystyried. Yn gynharach, yn y pwyllgor, fe wnaethom holi CNC am hyn ac roeddent yn dweud bod gwybodaeth ar eu gwefan, ond nid wyf yn credu bod hynny'n ddigon fel offeryn. Felly, a wnewch chi ystyried gwneud hyn, gan weithio gyda Chymdeithas Llywodraeth Leol Cymru?
Yes, absolutely. Can I thank Carolyn for her supplementary question? There are many forms of legislation in place that highlight the responsibilities of riparian landowners in regard to flooding, and anyone who owns land or property that either contains or is next to a river, stream or a ditch is a riparian landowner. I think it was last year that the then Minister for climate change provided a written statement over this very issue, but my officials do meet very regularly with the Welsh Local Government Association, and I will ask that they review the situation, when they next meet, to discuss the best ways to inform landowners of your concerns and of their responsibilities.
Yn bendant. A gaf i ddiolch i Carolyn am ei chwestiwn atodol? Mae sawl math o ddeddfwriaeth ar waith sy'n tynnu sylw at gyfrifoldebau tirfeddianwyr glannau afon mewn perthynas â llifogydd, ac mae unrhyw un sy'n berchen ar dir neu eiddo sydd naill ai'n cynnwys neu sydd wrth ymyl afon, nant neu ffos yn dirfeddiannwr glannau afon. Rwy'n credu mai y llynedd y darparodd y Gweinidog newid hinsawdd ar y pryd ddatganiad ysgrifenedig ynghylch y mater hwn, ond mae fy swyddogion yn cyfarfod yn rheolaidd iawn â Chymdeithas Llywodraeth Leol Cymru, a byddaf yn gofyn iddynt adolygu'r sefyllfa, pan fyddant yn cyfarfod nesaf, i drafod y ffyrdd gorau o hysbysu tirfeddianwyr am eich pryderon a'u cyfrifoldebau.
7. Pa gamau y mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn eu cymryd i sicrhau bod llwybrau teithio llesol yn hygyrch i bobl ag anableddau? OQ62441
7. What action is the Welsh Government taking to ensure active travel routes are accessible to people with disabilities? OQ62441
I am committed to ensuring that walking, wheeling and cycling is inclusive and accessible to all. This includes funding for inclusive infrastructure, such as safe crossings, dropped kerbs, tactile paving, and better integration with public transport, promoting equality of access within and between communities.
Rwyf wedi ymrwymo i sicrhau bod cerdded, olwyno a beicio yn gynhwysol ac yn hygyrch i bawb. Mae hyn yn cynnwys cyllid ar gyfer seilwaith cynhwysol, megis croesfannau diogel, cyrbau is, palmant botymog, ac integreiddio gwell â thrafnidiaeth gyhoeddus, gan hyrwyddo mynediad cyfartal o fewn a rhwng cymunedau.
Thank you, Cabinet Secretary. Sadly, one of the biggest barriers to active travel for people with disabilities is the scourge of pavement parking. The former transport Minister promised a crackdown, but inconsiderate parking is still a barrier to wheelchair users, as well as those with sight loss, taking active travel options. Cabinet Secretary, can you update the Chamber on efforts to crack down on pavement parking and any discussions you have had with the Cabinet Secretary for planning about ensuring new housing includes sufficient parking facilities to prevent the need for pavement parking? Thank you.
Diolch, Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet. Yn anffodus, un o'r rhwystrau mwyaf i deithio llesol i bobl ag anableddau yw malltod parcio ar balmentydd. Addawodd y cyn-Weinidog trafnidiaeth y byddai'n mynd i'r afael â'r broblem, ond mae parcio anystyriol yn dal i fod yn rhwystr i ddefnyddwyr cadeiriau olwyn, yn ogystal â'r rhai sydd wedi colli eu golwg, rhag dewis opsiynau teithio llesol. Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet, a allwch chi roi'r wybodaeth ddiweddaraf i'r Siambr am ymdrechion i fynd i'r afael â pharcio ar balmentydd ac unrhyw drafodaethau a gawsoch gydag Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet dros gynllunio ynghylch sicrhau bod tai newydd yn cynnwys cyfleusterau parcio digonol i gael gwared ar yr angen i barcio ar balmentydd? Diolch.
Can I thank Altaf Hussain for raising this matter today in the Chamber? We're working with local government to look at how we can address pavement parking, and we're also working with the UK Government and the other devolved administrations to ascertain whether a collective approach to this matter can be developed. The Member may be aware that, this forthcoming year, we're going to be insisting that, as a minimum, 60 per cent of core allocations for active travel is spent on the ground, on actual physical improvements, on infrastructure improvements, such as dropped kerbs, tactile paving and preventative measures that stop people from parking on pavements. That's an indication of the course of direction that we are going to be taking as a Government, but we will go on working with local government and the UK Government to ensure that, collectively, we can crack down on pavement parking.
A gaf fi ddiolch i Altaf Hussain am godi'r mater hwn heddiw yn y Siambr? Rydym yn gweithio gyda llywodraeth leol i edrych ar sut y gallwn fynd i'r afael â pharcio ar balmentydd, ac rydym hefyd yn gweithio gyda Llywodraeth y DU a'r gweinyddiaethau datganoledig eraill i ganfod a oes modd datblygu dull cyfunol o weithredu ar y mater hwn. Efallai y bydd yr Aelod yn ymwybodol, yn y flwyddyn sydd i ddod, y byddwn yn mynnu bod 60 y cant fan lleiaf o'r dyraniadau craidd ar gyfer teithio llesol yn cael eu gwario ar lawr gwlad, ar welliannau ffisegol, ar welliannau seilwaith, megis cyrbau is, palmentydd botymog a mesurau ataliol i rwystro pobl rhag parcio ar balmentydd. Mae hynny'n arwydd o'r cyfeiriad y byddwn yn anelu tuag ato fel Llywodraeth, ond byddwn yn parhau i weithio gyda llywodraeth leol a Llywodraeth y DU i sicrhau, gyda'n gilydd, y gallwn fynd i'r afael â pharcio ar balmentydd.
8. Beth yw cynigion Llywodraeth Cymru ar gyfer gwella'r rhwydwaith trafnidiaeth yng Ngogledd Cymru? OQ62416
8. What are the Welsh Government’s proposals for improving the transport network in North Wales? OQ62416
Our priorities for north Wales are improving public transport links, building better roads, devolving decision making to the north through its regional transport plan, and delivering the north Wales metro.
Ein blaenoriaethau ar gyfer gogledd Cymru yw gwella cysylltiadau trafnidiaeth gyhoeddus, adeiladu ffyrdd gwell, datganoli'r broses o wneud penderfyniadau i'r gogledd drwy ei gynllun trafnidiaeth rhanbarthol, a darparu metro gogledd Cymru.
Questioning you here in 2018 during your first innings as transport Secretary, I highlighted the North Wales Economic Ambition Board's growth vision for north Wales draft proposition document, which stated the region invites the Welsh Government to support the formation of a regional transport body and fund the delivery of a well-planned and integrated transport network, and that additional powers will be needed to enable the planning of integrated passenger transport networks. In your response, you referred for the first time instead to the north Wales metro. As you know, I chair the cross-party group for north Wales, and at our meeting in February 2023 you argued in favour of devolving decision making on a range of transport matters to the region, and you stated this could involve devolution of funding to the north Wales corporate joint committee. Now that you're on your second innings as transport Secretary, how will you reconcile your statement last month that decisions about the future funding of the Welsh Government's transport grants will be taken by corporate joint committees based on an agreed delivery plan, presumably with the Welsh Government, with the approach advocated by the ambition board from the outset of real regionalism and devolution?
Wrth eich holi yma yn 2018 yn ystod eich cyfnod cyntaf fel Ysgrifennydd trafnidiaeth, nodais weledigaeth dwf Bwrdd Uchelgais Economaidd Gogledd Cymru ar gyfer dogfen cynnig drafft gogledd Cymru, a nodai fod y rhanbarth yn gwahodd Llywodraeth Cymru i gefnogi ffurfio corff trafnidiaeth rhanbarthol ac ariannu'r gwaith o ddarparu rhwydwaith trafnidiaeth integredig wedi'i gynllunio'n dda, ac y bydd angen pwerau ychwanegol i alluogi'r gwaith o gynllunio rhwydweithiau cludo teithwyr integredig. Yn eich ymateb, fe wnaethoch chi gyfeirio am y tro cyntaf yn lle hynny at fetro gogledd Cymru. Fel y gwyddoch, rwy'n cadeirio'r grŵp trawsbleidiol ar gyfer gogledd Cymru, ac yn ein cyfarfod ym mis Chwefror 2023 roeddech chi'n dadlau o blaid datganoli'r broses o wneud penderfyniadau ar ystod o faterion trafnidiaeth i'r rhanbarth, ac fe ddywedoch chi y gallai hyn gynnwys datganoli cyllid i gyd-bwyllgor corfforedig gogledd Cymru. Gan eich bod bellach ar eich ail gyfnod fel Ysgrifennydd trafnidiaeth, sut y gallwch chi gysoni eich datganiad fis diwethaf y bydd penderfyniadau ynghylch cyllido grantiau trafnidiaeth Llywodraeth Cymru yn y dyfodol yn cael eu gwneud gan gyd-bwyllgorau corfforedig yn seiliedig ar gynllun cyflawni y cytunwyd arno, gyda Llywodraeth Cymru, rwy'n tybio, â'r dull gweithredu a argymhellwyd gan y bwrdd uchelgais o'r cychwyn sef rhanbartholdeb a datganoli go iawn?
I'm delighted to say that, in my second innings, we are actually doing what I said we should commence in my first innings, which is to devolve the financial resource and the decision making to the region—yes, to the corporate joint committee, but it may be that funding goes direct to local authorities. It's for the CJCs to determine how the funding is allocated against their agreed regional transport plans. I wish to see those who know the regions best make the decisions over transport. That's what we're doing with devolution.
The Member points to an interesting report from seven years ago. I think it was also the case—and we're going back even further now—that Elizabeth Haywood recommended a similar scheme of intervention, the creation of a transport authority, in her report on city regions. I'm keen to look at this as a process rather than a single event, and in the future we may well see evolution towards that, utilising structures that we've put in place through the CJC. I would not describe devolution to the regions as the end point, though. It is part of a process.
Rwy'n falch iawn o ddweud, yn fy ail gyfnod, ein bod yn gwneud yr hyn y dywedais y dylem ei ddechrau yn fy nghyfnod cyntaf, sef datganoli'r adnodd ariannol a'r broses o wneud penderfyniadau i'r rhanbarth—ie, i'r cyd-bwyllgor corfforedig, ond fe allai'r cyllid fod yn mynd yn uniongyrchol i awdurdodau lleol. Mater i'r cyd-bwyllgorau corfforedig yw penderfynu sut y mae'r cyllid yn cael ei ddyrannu yn erbyn eu cynlluniau trafnidiaeth rhanbarthol y cytunwyd arnynt. Hoffwn weld y rhai sy'n adnabod y rhanbarthau orau yn gwneud y penderfyniadau ynglŷn â thrafnidiaeth. Dyna a wnawn gyda datganoli.
Mae'r Aelod yn cyfeirio at adroddiad diddorol saith mlynedd yn ôl. Rwy'n meddwl hefyd—ac rydym yn mynd yn ôl ymhellach byth nawr—fod Elizabeth Haywood wedi argymell cynllun tebyg o ymyrraeth, creu awdurdod trafnidiaeth, yn ei hadroddiad ar ddinas-ranbarthau. Rwy'n awyddus i edrych ar hyn fel proses yn hytrach nag un digwyddiad, ac yn y dyfodol mae'n ddigon posibl y gwelwn esblygu tuag at hynny, gan ddefnyddio strwythurau a roddwyd ar waith gennym drwy'r cyd-bwyllgor corfforedig. Ni fyddwn yn disgrifio datganoli i'r rhanbarthau fel pen draw, serch hynny. Mae'n rhan o broses.
9. Sut mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn gweithio i wella seilwaith trafnidiaeth ar draws Gorllewin De Cymru? OQ62426
9. How is the Welsh Government working to improve transport infrastructure across South Wales West? OQ62426
Our transport strategy, 'Llwybr Newydd', sets out our vision to improve transport across Wales. We will deliver this vision in south-west Wales through the projects set out in our national transport delivery plan and the south-west Wales regional transport plan, which is currently being consulted on.
Mae ein strategaeth drafnidiaeth, 'Llwybr Newydd', yn nodi ein gweledigaeth i wella trafnidiaeth ledled Cymru. Byddwn yn cyflawni'r weledigaeth hon yn ne-orllewin Cymru drwy'r prosiectau a nodir yn ein cynllun cyflawni cenedlaethol ar gyfer trafnidiaeth a chynllun trafnidiaeth rhanbarthol de-orllewin Cymru, sy'n destun ymgynghori ar hyn o bryd.
Thank you very much for your answer. You'll know that, just over a month ago, I raised with the First Minister the cancellation of key junction upgrades on the M4 around Swansea in particular, specifically junction 47 at Penllergaer and junction 45 at Ynysforgan. We know that this would have made a huge difference to the traffic flow on the M4, the congestion that can exist on those junctions and across those communities, particularly at peak times. The First Minister said in response to my question that you would look at this in greater detail to see whether these plans, which were previously cancelled by the Welsh Government, could potentially be resurrected. Can I ask for an update from you on your work on that review and what more work I as a regional Member for the area, and also local campaigners, can do to help make the case to you that we need these junctions improved so that we can get Swansea moving?
Diolch am eich ateb. Fe wyddoch fy mod, ychydig dros fis yn ôl, wedi tynnu sylw'r Prif Weinidog at ganslo gwaith uwchraddio allweddol ar gyffyrdd ar yr M4, o gwmpas Abertawe yn enwedig, a chyffordd 47 ym Mhenlle'r-gaer a chyffordd 45 yn Ynysforgan yn benodol. Gwyddom y byddai hyn wedi gwneud gwahaniaeth enfawr i'r llif traffig ar yr M4, y tagfeydd a all fodoli ar y cyffyrdd ac ar draws y cymunedau hynny, yn enwedig ar adegau prysur. Dywedodd y Prif Weinidog mewn ymateb i fy nghwestiwn y byddech yn edrych ar hyn yn fanylach i weld a ellid atgyfodi'r cynlluniau hyn a gafodd eu canslo gan Lywodraeth Cymru yn flaenorol. A gaf i ofyn am ddiweddariad gennych chi ar eich gwaith ar yr adolygiad hwnnw a pha waith arall y gallaf i fel Aelod rhanbarthol dros yr ardal, ac ymgyrchwyr lleol hefyd, ei wneud i helpu i gyflwyno'r achos i chi ein bod angen gwella'r cyffyrdd hyn fel y gallwn gael Abertawe i symud?
Can I thank Tom Giffard for his question? I do recognise the congestion that people experience on the M4 at junctions 45 and 47. I recall the Member raising the issue with the First Minister recently. The national transport delivery plan includes a commitment to improve safety, resilience and modal shift on the M4. I have asked my officials to work with local authorities, the CJC and wider stakeholders to consider where our strategic road network requires action and they will be looking at these junctions. I'll report back as soon as I've got more information.
A gaf i ddiolch i Tom Giffard am ei gwestiwn? Rwy'n cydnabod y tagfeydd y mae pobl yn eu profi ar yr M4 ar gyffyrdd 45 a 47. Rwy'n cofio'r Aelod yn codi'r mater gyda'r Prif Weinidog yn ddiweddar. Mae'r cynllun cyflawni cenedlaethol ar gyfer trafnidiaeth yn cynnwys ymrwymiad i wella diogelwch, gwytnwch a newid dulliau teithio ar yr M4. Rwyf wedi gofyn i fy swyddogion weithio gydag awdurdodau lleol, y cyd-bwyllgor corfforedig a rhanddeiliaid ehangach i ystyried lle mae angen gweithredu ar ein rhwydwaith ffyrdd strategol a byddant yn edrych ar y cyffyrdd hyn. Byddaf yn adrodd yn ôl cyn gynted ag y caf fwy o wybodaeth.
10. Pa gamau y mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn eu cymryd i sicrhau cysylltedd trafnidiaeth da cyn gwyliau a digwyddiadau mawr yng Nghaerdydd? OQ62442
10. What action is the Welsh Government taking to ensure good transport connectivity ahead of large festivals and events in Cardiff? OQ62442
We work closely with Transport for Wales, Cardiff Council, other local authorities and the event organisers themselves to agree transport plans for major events. And thanks to our £800 million investment in new trains, Transport for Wales has been able to provide far more capacity for passengers before and after such events.
Rydym yn gweithio'n agos gyda Trafnidiaeth Cymru, Cyngor Caerdydd, awdurdodau lleol eraill a threfnwyr y digwyddiadau eu hunain i gytuno ar gynlluniau trafnidiaeth ar gyfer digwyddiadau mawr. A diolch i'n buddsoddiad o £800 miliwn mewn trenau newydd, mae Trafnidiaeth Cymru wedi gallu darparu llawer mwy o gapasiti i deithwyr cyn ac ar ôl digwyddiadau o'r fath.
Thank you, Cabinet Secretary. As you know, Cardiff plays host to a growing number of major events that undoubtedly brings revenue to many businesses in and around the city that provide hospitality services. Recently, the Labour leader of Cardiff Council has spoken about how Cardiff will look to introduce a tourism tax, and how they could even look at introducing a premium on event days. If this is introduced, there will undoubtedly be people who will be put off from staying in the city overnight who would have otherwise done so, and we can therefore expect that this will put a greater strain on the city's transport infrastructure in and around event days. With this in mind, Cabinet Secretary, what work has the Welsh Government undertaken to determine the potential increase in traffic and train use at major events once the tourism tax and a potential premium on event days has been introduced? Thank you.
Diolch, Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet. Fel y gwyddoch, mae Caerdydd yn cynnal nifer cynyddol o ddigwyddiadau mawr sydd, heb os, yn dod â refeniw i lawer o fusnesau yn y ddinas a'r cyffiniau sy'n darparu gwasanaethau lletygarwch. Yn ddiweddar, mae arweinydd Llafur Cyngor Caerdydd wedi siarad ynglŷn â sut y bydd Caerdydd yn ystyried cyflwyno treth dwristiaeth, a hyd yn oed sut y gallent edrych ar gyflwyno premiwm ar ddiwrnodau digwyddiadau. Os caiff hyn ei gyflwyno, heb os, bydd pobl a fyddai wedi gwneud hynny fel arall yn dewis peidio ag aros yn y ddinas dros nos, a gallwn ddisgwyl felly y bydd hyn yn rhoi mwy o straen ar seilwaith trafnidiaeth y ddinas yn ystod ac o gwmpas diwrnodau digwyddiadau. Gyda hyn mewn golwg, Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet, pa waith y mae Llywodraeth Cymru wedi'i wneud i bennu'r cynnydd posibl mewn traffig a defnydd trenau mewn digwyddiadau mawr pan fydd y dreth dwristiaeth a phremiwm posibl ar ddiwrnodau digwyddiadau wedi'u cyflwyno? Diolch.
Well, there are two parts to the question. First of all, the assertion that a few more pounds on the cost of a room at the height of a season and when a major event is taking place will act as a deterrent to people coming to Cardiff—I don't believe that that is the case. If people are paying upward of £250 for a hotel room, I think a few more punds as part of a levy to enhance the place is probably something that most visitors would pay; I'm not sure that they'd necessarily notice it if they're paying £200, £300, £400 for a hotel room. But the Welsh Government regularly attends—to the very point that the Member was asking, actually, in terms of assessments and the work that's undertaken—the stadium events liaison group. That consists of representatives of the police, the rail sector, the ambulance service, of course Cardiff Council itself, the Welsh Rugby Union and many other organisations. It meets regularly to discuss possible impacts that events in the city could have on the transport network, and to plan accordingly. That will take place regardless of the level of tourism levy that is imposed on visitors, but, as I say, I do not believe that when significant major events take place, a slight increase in the visitor levy would have a material impact in terms of visitor numbers.
Mae dwy ran i'r cwestiwn. Yn gyntaf oll, yr honiad fod ychydig mwy o bunnoedd ar gost ystafell ar anterth y tymor a phan fydd digwyddiad mawr yn cael ei gynnal yn atal pobl rhag dod i Gaerdydd—nid wyf yn credu bod hynny'n wir. Os yw pobl yn talu mwy na £250 am ystafell mewn gwesty, rwy'n credu bod ychydig mwy o bunnoedd yn rhan o ardoll i wella'r lle yn rhywbeth y byddai'r rhan fwyaf o ymwelwyr yn ei dalu, mae'n debyg; nid wyf yn siŵr y byddent o reidrwydd yn sylwi arno os ydynt yn talu £200, £300, £400 am ystafell mewn gwesty. Ond mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn rheolaidd yn mynychu—ar yr union bwynt yr oedd yr Aelod yn gofyn yn ei gylch mewn gwirionedd, ac asesiadau a'r gwaith sy'n cael ei wneud—grŵp cyswllt digwyddiadau'r stadiwm. Mae hynny'n cynnwys cynrychiolwyr o'r heddlu, y sector rheilffyrdd, y gwasanaeth ambiwlans, Cyngor Caerdydd ei hun wrth gwrs, Undeb Rygbi Cymru a llawer o sefydliadau eraill. Mae'n cyfarfod yn rheolaidd i drafod effeithiau posibl y gallai digwyddiadau yn y ddinas eu cael ar y rhwydwaith trafnidiaeth, ac i gynllunio yn unol â hynny. Bydd hynny'n digwydd beth bynnag fydd lefel yr ardoll twristiaeth sy'n cael ei gosod ar ymwelwyr, ond fel y dywedais, pan fydd digwyddiadau mawr arwyddocaol yn digwydd, nid wyf yn credu y byddai cynnydd bach yn yr ardoll ymwelwyr yn cael effaith sylweddol ar nifer yr ymwelwyr.
Diolch i'r Ysgrifennydd Cabinet.
Thank you, Cabinet Secretary.
Yr eitem nesaf fydd y cwestiynau i Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet dros Gyfiawnder Cymdeithasol, y Trefnydd a'r Prif Chwip, ac mae'r cwestiwn cyntaf gan Jenny Rathbone.
The next item will be questions to the Cabinet Secretary for Social Justice, Trefnydd and Chief Whip, and the first question is from Jenny Rathbone.
1. Pa drafodaethau y mae yr Ysgrifennydd Cabinet wedi'u cael gyda Llywodraeth y DU ynghylch lleddfu tlodi plant? OQ62440
1. What discussions has the Cabinet Secretary had with the UK Government about alleviating child poverty? OQ62440

Thank you for the question. I have regular discussions with the UK Government, including through the four nations ministerial group on the UK child poverty strategy, to discuss how they can use their levers to support our child poverty strategy and help tackle child poverty here in Wales.
Diolch am y cwestiwn. Rwy'n cael trafodaethau rheolaidd gyda Llywodraeth y DU, gan gynnwys trwy grŵp gweinidogol y pedair gwlad ar strategaeth tlodi plant y DU, i drafod sut y gallant ddefnyddio eu dulliau i gefnogi ein strategaeth tlodi plant a helpu i fynd i'r afael â thlodi plant yma yng Nghymru.
Thank you very much, Cabinet Secretary. We hear recent reports that UK Ministers are looking to exempt children under five, disabled children and the children of parents in work from this two-child limit, which has been imposed on children for the last seven or eight years. Children don't have a vote and live in the shadow of this two-child limit, while pensioners are protected by the triple lock and can use their vote against any party who threatens to remove it. Now that we have the United Nations asking the UK Government to rescind this discriminatory policy, and the Joseph Rowntree Foundation is predicting an extra 32,000 children in Wales living in poverty by 2029, what action could the Welsh Government take if the pleas for change fall on deaf ears?
Diolch, Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet. Rydym yn clywed adroddiadau diweddar fod Gweinidogion y DU yn bwriadu eithrio plant o dan bump oed, plant anabl a phlant rhieni sydd mewn gwaith o'r terfyn dau blentyn a osodwyd ar blant dros y saith neu wyth mlynedd diwethaf. Nid oes gan blant bleidlais ac maent yn byw yng nghysgod y terfyn dau blentyn hwn, tra bo pensiynwyr yn cael eu diogelu gan y clo triphlyg a gallant ddefnyddio eu pleidlais yn erbyn unrhyw blaid sy'n bygwth ei ddileu. Gan fod gennym y Cenhedloedd Unedig bellach yn gofyn i Lywodraeth y DU ddiddymu'r polisi gwahaniaethol hwn, a Sefydliad Joseph Rowntree yn rhagweld y bydd 32,000 o blant ychwanegol yng Nghymru yn byw mewn tlodi erbyn 2029, pa gamau y gallai Llywodraeth Cymru eu cymryd os yw'r apeliadau am newid yn disgyn ar glustiau byddar?
Thank you very much, Jenny Rathbone. Of course, we know that social security policies potentially impact on child poverty. This is the starting point of my discussions and contributions to the UK Government's four nations taskforce, and I am aware of the discussions that have been aired and the reports that have come forward about options being considered for changes to the current two-child limit.
Just to confirm, I've personally raised the issue of the two-child limit and wider welfare reform with the UK Government, and will continue to do so. It is important that we examine the impact of social security policy as a whole, instead of a piecemeal approach to looking at individual policies. But those recent reports, as you said, the two-child cap to be reviewed or abolished, including that recent important Child Poverty Action Group report, which was published in February 2025, issues that have been raised by the Resolution Foundation and Citizens Advice reports—. So, obviously, we await the outcome. We actually have a meeting of the four nations taskforce next week as well, so I look forward to, again, raising this issue, particularly to clarify what may be forthcoming in terms of the UK child poverty strategy. Because we know that social security policies, as I've said, have a particular impact on child poverty, and we are committed to tackling poverty as an absolute priority as a Welsh Government.
Diolch, Jenny Rathbone. Wrth gwrs, fe wyddom y gallai polisïau nawdd cymdeithasol effeithio ar dlodi plant. Dyma fan cychwyn fy nhrafodaethau a fy nghyfraniadau i dasglu pedair gwlad Llywodraeth y DU, ac rwy'n ymwybodol o'r trafodaethau sydd wedi cael eu darlledu a'r adroddiadau sydd wedi eu cyflwyno ynghylch opsiynau sydd dan ystyriaeth ar gyfer newidiadau i'r terfyn dau blentyn presennol.
I gadarnhau, rwyf i'n bersonol wedi codi mater y terfyn dau blentyn a diwygio lles yn ehangach gyda Llywodraeth y DU, a byddaf yn parhau i wneud hynny. Mae'n bwysig ein bod yn archwilio effaith y polisi nawdd cymdeithasol yn ei gyfanrwydd, yn hytrach na dull tameidiog o edrych ar bolisïau unigol. Ond mae'r adroddiadau diweddar, fel y dywedoch chi, y cap dau blentyn i'w adolygu neu ei ddiddymu, gan gynnwys yr adroddiad pwysig gan y Grŵp Gweithredu ar Dlodi Plant, a gyhoeddwyd ym mis Chwefror 2025, materion a godwyd gan y Resolution Foundation ac adroddiadau Cyngor ar Bopeth—. Felly, yn amlwg, rydym yn aros am y canlyniad. Mae gennym gyfarfod o'r tasglu pedair gwlad yr wythnos nesaf hefyd, felly edrychaf ymlaen at godi'r mater hwn unwaith eto, yn fwyaf arbennig i gael eglurhad ynglŷn â beth a allai fod ar y ffordd o ran strategaeth tlodi plant y DU. Oherwydd fe wyddom fod polisïau nawdd cymdeithasol, fel y dywedais, yn cael effaith arbennig ar dlodi plant, ac rydym wedi ymrwymo i fynd i'r afael â thlodi fel blaenoriaeth lwyr fel Llywodraeth Cymru.
Cabinet Secretary, data consistently shows that poverty and inequality impact a child's whole life. It affects their education, which limits their employment prospects, it affects their housing and social environment, and this in turn impacts their health outcomes, which, again, in the long term, also affects their ability to work. We know that this creates a vicious cycle that imposes poverty on the next generation, and this cycle is difficult to break out of.
Cabinet Secretary, it is in everyone's interests to reduce child poverty, and I recognise how much work and money has been invested to help reduce it. However, the fact remains that the rates remain stubbornly high. From speaking with charities and schools, one of the factors that is often mentioned is a lack of inter-agency collaboration on this issue. Social services, education, health and the third sector need better joint co-ordination not only to speed up intervention when it is needed, but to maximise the opportunities it has. With this in mind, Cabinet Secretary, what strategy does the Welsh Government have to improve interconnectivity of agencies working together to tackle child poverty? Thank you.
Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet, mae data'n dangos yn gyson bod tlodi ac anghydraddoldeb yn effeithio ar oes gyfan plentyn. Mae'n effeithio ar eu haddysg, sy'n cyfyngu ar eu rhagolygon cyflogaeth, mae'n effeithio ar eu sefyllfa dai a'u hamgylchedd cymdeithasol, ac mae hyn yn ei dro yn effeithio ar eu canlyniadau iechyd, sydd, unwaith eto, yn y tymor hir, hefyd yn effeithio ar eu gallu i weithio. Gwyddom fod hyn yn creu cylch dieflig sy'n gorfodi tlodi ar y genhedlaeth nesaf, ac mae'n anodd torri allan o'r cylch hwn.
Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet, mae lleihau tlodi plant o fudd i bawb, ac rwy'n cydnabod faint o waith ac arian sydd wedi'i fuddsoddi i helpu i'w leihau. Fodd bynnag, erys y ffaith bod y cyfraddau'n parhau i fod yn ystyfnig o uchel. O siarad ag elusennau ac ysgolion, un o'r ffactorau a grybwyllir yn aml yw diffyg cydweithio rhyngasiantaethol ar y mater hwn. Mae angen gwell cydgysylltiad ar wasanaethau cymdeithasol, addysg, iechyd a'r trydydd sector, nid yn unig i gyflymu ymyrraeth pan fo angen, ond i wneud y mwyaf o'r cyfleoedd sydd ganddynt. Gyda hyn mewn golwg, Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet, pa strategaeth sydd gan Lywodraeth Cymru i wella rhyng-gysylltedd asiantaethau sy'n cydweithio i fynd i'r afael â thlodi plant? Diolch.
Thank you very much, Joel James, for that question. As you are aware, of course, we published our own cross-Government child poverty strategy last year, and one of the key points in that strategy, which brought together, in consultation, not just all of the statutory organisations responsible, those who have a responsibility and can make a difference to children's lives and experiences, but also the third sector and children themselves, actually. I met Young Wales at the weekend, and we were talking about—particularly, they wanted to talk about the impact of child poverty and the ways in which we could address this. So, we've had extensive engagement with children and young people and their representative organisations. But it's very much a cross-Government responsibility.
So, I mean, I think that is why it was so important that Wales was the first UK nation to offer free school meals. When I came into the post, representations from external organisations and the evidence was clear that, if we could offer free school meals to all primary learners, which we now do—over 35 million additional meals served since the launch in September 2022—this supports low-income households. It supports eligible pupils, it supports all pupils in universal primary free-school-meals roll-out, and, indeed, of course, there's the commitment to maintaining free breakfasts in primary school as well.
But I would also like just to respond to that cross-Government engagement and cross-sectoral policy engagement to refer to the fact that, over the past year, we have also had a child poverty innovation strategy, with innovation and supporting grants for 2024-25, and I think the examples, particularly in your regions, are important to show what difference it can make. Some of these projects are led by local authorities, some of them are led by the health service, some of them are led by children and community organisations all working together to tackle child poverty.
Diolch am y cwestiwn, Joel James. Fel y gwyddoch, wrth gwrs, fe wnaethom gyhoeddi ein strategaeth tlodi plant drawslywodraethol ein hunain y llynedd, ac un o'r pwyntiau allweddol yn y strategaeth honno, a gasglodd ynghyd, mewn ymgynghoriad, nid yn unig yr holl sefydliadau statudol sy'n gyfrifol, y rhai sydd â chyfrifoldeb ac sy'n gallu gwneud gwahaniaeth i fywydau a phrofiadau plant, ond hefyd y trydydd sector a'r plant eu hunain. Cyfarfûm â Cymru Ifanc dros y penwythnos, ac roeddem yn sôn—yn arbennig, roeddent am siarad am effaith tlodi plant a'r ffyrdd y gallem fynd i'r afael â hyn. Felly, rydym wedi ymgysylltu'n helaeth â phlant a phobl ifanc a'u sefydliadau cynrychioliadol. Ond mae'n sicr yn gyfrifoldeb ar draws y Llywodraeth.
Felly, rwy'n credu mai dyna pam ei bod mor bwysig mai Cymru oedd y genedl gyntaf yn y DU i gynnig prydau ysgol am ddim. Pan ddeuthum i'r swydd, roedd sylwadau gan sefydliadau allanol a'r dystiolaeth yn glir, pe gallem gynnig prydau ysgol am ddim i bob dysgwr cynradd, fel rydym bellach yn ei wneud—dros 35 miliwn o brydau ychwanegol wedi'u gweini ers y lansiad ym mis Medi 2022—mae hyn yn cefnogi aelwydydd incwm isel. Mae'n cefnogi disgyblion cymwys, mae'n cefnogi pob disgybl gyda phrydau ysgol am ddim i bawb, ac yn wir, mae ymrwymiad i gynnal brecwast am ddim yn yr ysgol gynradd hefyd.
Ond hoffwn ymateb hefyd i'r ymgysylltiad trawslywodraethol a'r ymgysylltiad polisi traws-sectoraidd i nodi ein bod, dros y flwyddyn ddiwethaf, wedi bod â strategaeth arloesi tlodi plant hefyd, gydag arloesedd a grantiau ategol ar gyfer 2024-25, ac rwy'n credu bod yr enghreifftiau, yn enwedig yn eich rhanbarthau, yn bwysig i ddangos y gwahaniaeth y gall ei wneud. Caiff rhai o'r prosiectau hyn eu harwain gan awdurdodau lleol, rhai gan y gwasanaeth iechyd, a rhai gan sefydliadau plant a sefydliadau cymunedol i gyd yn gweithio gyda'i gilydd i fynd i'r afael â thlodi plant.
Diolch to Jenny Rathbone for this important question. My supplementary, Trefnydd, is about children in Wales living in poverty within working households. Now, according to Welsh Government data, in 2010 50 per cent of children living in relative income poverty did not have a parent in work. However, the figure now has increased to 75 per cent of children living in relative poverty with a parent working. The Department for Work and Pensions's data show that the UK-wide equivalent is 63 per cent. So, the figure is far worse in Wales, far more acute in Wales. Children living in poverty even when they live in a working household is an acute issue here in Wales, which I would suggest requires a Wales-specific solution. Therefore, what is the Welsh Government's plan to reverse this worrying trend? Diolch yn fawr.
Diolch i Jenny Rathbone am y cwestiwn pwysig hwn. Mae fy nghwestiwn atodol, Drefnydd, yn ymwneud â phlant yng Nghymru sy'n byw mewn tlodi ar aelwydydd sy'n gweithio. Nawr, yn ôl data Llywodraeth Cymru, yn 2010 nid oedd gan 50 y cant o blant a oedd yn byw mewn tlodi incwm cymharol riant mewn gwaith. Fodd bynnag, mae'r ffigur bellach wedi codi i 75 y cant o blant yn byw mewn tlodi cymharol gyda rhiant yn gweithio. Mae data'r Adran Gwaith a Phensiynau yn dangos mai'r ffigur cyfatebol ledled y DU yw 63 y cant. Felly, mae'r ffigur yn llawer gwaeth yng Nghymru, yn llawer mwy difrifol yng Nghymru. Mae plant sy'n byw mewn tlodi hyd yn oed pan fyddant yn byw ar aelwyd sy'n gweithio yn fater difrifol yma yng Nghymru, a byddwn yn awgrymu bod angen ateb penodol i Gymru. Felly, beth yw cynllun Llywodraeth Cymru i wyrdroi'r duedd bryderus hon? Diolch yn fawr.
Diolch yn fawr am eich cwestiwn pwysig iawn.
Thank you very much for your very important question.
And this has also been raised in our four nations and inter-ministerial taskforce on tackling child poverty, that those who are in work often end up claiming universal credit and in work. Those in work are often led by single-parent families as well. So, this is why all our work to ensure that people take up all the benefits they're entitled to—. And they are entitled to benefits that would be available to them if they are in work as well. It's vitally important to see that, for example, in the Cardiff and Vale region, services have helped more than 63,000 people from our most disadvantaged and marginalised communities to claim additional income of over £9.2 million. That's through the single advice fund that we introduced in January.
Of course, if you are a working parent, free school meals and the free school breakfast can assist that working parent. But also, there are other benefits that we encourage all our parents to take up, particularly, for example, a UK benefit, the Healthy Start voucher. Now, Healthy Start payments can help purchase, for example, fruit, vegetables and milk. It amounts to £4.25 per week for eligible pregnant women and for children from their first until their fourth birthday, and £8.50 a week for babies up to one year of age. It's really important that, again, we have the opportunity through these questions to again remind our colleagues, and indeed all those you represent, of these entitlements in order to ensure people have got—. I mean, it is money in the pocket that they need.
Of course, there are also the concerns that many working parents, sadly, in this day and age, as a result of 14 years of austerity, have to turn to foodbanks. And we know that working parents are accessing foodbanks as well. So, I mean, this does go back to the very first question about the social security system, and also enabling working parents to have better wages, fair work, the real living wage, because we know that that will ensure that there are fewer children in child poverty. So, it's very much a cross-Government response.
Ac mae hyn hefyd wedi'i godi yn ein tasglu pedair gwlad a rhyngweinidogol ar fynd i'r afael â thlodi plant, fod y rhai sydd mewn gwaith yn aml yn hawlio credyd cynhwysol ac mewn gwaith. Mae'r rhai sydd mewn gwaith yn aml yn cael eu harwain gan deuluoedd un rhiant hefyd. Felly, dyma pam y mae ein holl waith i sicrhau bod pobl yn manteisio ar yr holl fudd-daliadau y mae ganddynt hawl iddynt—. Ac mae ganddynt hawl i fudd-daliadau a fyddai ar gael iddynt os ydynt mewn gwaith hefyd. Mae'n hanfodol bwysig gweld, er enghraifft, yn rhanbarth Caerdydd a'r Fro, fod gwasanaethau wedi helpu mwy na 63,000 o bobl o'n cymunedau mwyaf difreintiedig ac ymylol i hawlio incwm ychwanegol o dros £9.2 miliwn. Digwyddodd hynny drwy'r gronfa gynghori sengl a gyflwynwyd gennym ym mis Ionawr.
Wrth gwrs, os ydych chi'n rhiant sy'n gweithio, gall prydau ysgol am ddim a'r brecwast ysgol am ddim helpu'r rhiant sy'n gweithio. Ond hefyd, ceir manteision eraill yr ydym yn annog ein holl rieni i fanteisio arnynt, er enghraifft y taleb Cychwyn Iach, sy'n fudd-dal y DU. Nawr, gall taliadau Cychwyn Iach helpu i brynu ffrwythau, llysiau a llaeth, er enghraifft. Mae'n £4.25 yr wythnos ar gyfer menywod beichiog cymwys ac i blant o'u pen-blwydd cyntaf tan eu pen-blwydd yn bedair oed, ac £8.50 yr wythnos i fabanod hyd at flwydd oed. Mae'n bwysig iawn, unwaith eto, ein bod yn cael cyfle drwy'r cwestiynau hyn i atgoffa ein cyd-Aelodau, a phawb a gynrychiolir gennych yn wir, am yr hawliau hyn er mwyn sicrhau bod pobl wedi cael—. Hynny yw, arian yn y boced sydd ei angen arnynt.
Yn anffodus, ceir pryderon hefyd fod llawer o rieni sy'n gweithio, yn yr oes sydd ohoni, o ganlyniad i 14 mlynedd o gyni ariannol, yn gorfod troi at fanciau bwyd. Ac rydym yn gwybod bod rhieni sy'n gweithio yn troi at fanciau bwyd. Felly, mae hyn yn mynd yn ôl at y cwestiwn cyntaf un am y system nawdd cymdeithasol, a galluogi rhieni sy'n gweithio i gael cyflogau gwell, gwaith teg, y cyflog byw gwirioneddol, oherwydd gwyddom y bydd hynny'n sicrhau bod llai o blant yn byw mewn tlodi. Felly, mae'n ymateb trawslywodraethol i raddau helaeth.
2. Pa drafodaethau y mae'r Ysgrifennydd Cabinet wedi'u cael gydag Ofgem ynghylch taliadau sefydlog? OQ62429
2. What discussions has the Cabinet Secretary had with Ofgem about standing charges? OQ62429
Thank you for your question. I have called on Ofgem directors for reform on standing charges as they are fundamentally unfair to people in Wales. I think I also raised this on 24 February when I met Ofgem directors to discuss the impact of the latest price cap that was announced on that day.
Diolch am eich cwestiwn. Rwyf wedi galw ar gyfarwyddwyr Ofgem i ddiwygio taliadau sefydlog gan eu bod yn sylfaenol annheg i bobl yng Nghymru. Rwy'n credu fy mod wedi codi hyn ar 24 Chwefror hefyd pan gyfarfûm â chyfarwyddwyr Ofgem i drafod effaith y cap diweddaraf ar brisiau a gyhoeddwyd y diwrnod hwnnw.
Diolch am eich ateb, Ysgrifennydd Cabinet.
Thank you very much for your response, Cabinet Secretary.
North Wales currently has the highest daily standing charge for electricity of any part of the UK. At just over 69 pence, it's significantly higher than in other regions, with Londoners facing a charge of just over 46 pence and residents of south Wales just over 51 pence. But this burden doesn't end there; the unit rate for electricity in north Wales is also the highest in England and Wales as well. It's not fair, it's not in the interests of my constituents and it needs rectifying. Whilst I recognise change is outside the powers of this place and Welsh Government, I'm sure you'll agree with me that it's an unacceptable situation for the people of north Wales.
One way of addressing both this disparity and the broader impact of rising energy costs would be through a meaningful social tariff. To be clear, this should be in addition to any current consumer support and not a replacement, and should be aimed at the people and places that need it the most. Therefore, does the Welsh Government support the further exploration and implementation to strengthen social tariffs as a way of both mitigating the impact of high energy costs and ensuring equity for my constituents and corner of the country? And in addition, do you think there should be a social obligation on suppliers to automatically switch people on to the cheapest rate?
Ar hyn o bryd gogledd Cymru sydd â'r tâl sefydlog dyddiol uchaf am drydan yn unrhyw ran o'r DU. Ar ychydig dros 69 ceiniog, mae'n sylweddol uwch na mewn rhanbarthau eraill, gyda Llundeinwyr yn wynebu tâl o ychydig dros 46 ceiniog a thrigolion de Cymru ychydig dros 51 ceiniog. Ond nid yw'r baich hwn yn dod i ben yno; cyfradd yr uned ar gyfer trydan yng ngogledd Cymru yw'r uchaf yng Nghymru a Lloegr. Nid yw'n deg, nid yw o fudd i fy etholwyr ac mae angen ei gywiro. Er fy mod yn cydnabod bod newid y tu allan i bwerau'r lle hwn a Llywodraeth Cymru, rwy'n siŵr y byddwch yn cytuno â mi ei bod yn sefyllfa annerbyniol i bobl gogledd Cymru.
Un ffordd o fynd i'r afael â'r gwahaniaeth hwn ac effaith ehangach costau ynni cynyddol fyddai trwy dariff cymdeithasol ystyrlon. I fod yn glir, dylai hwn fod yn ychwanegol at unrhyw gymorth presennol i ddefnyddwyr ac nid cymryd ei le, a dylai fod wedi'i anelu at y bobl a'r lleoedd sydd ei angen fwyaf. Felly, a yw Llywodraeth Cymru yn cefnogi'r gwaith archwilio a gweithredu pellach i gryfhau tariffau cymdeithasol fel ffordd o liniaru effaith costau ynni uchel a sicrhau tegwch i fy etholwyr a'r rhan hon o'r wlad? Ac yn ogystal, a ydych chi'n credu y dylai fod rhwymedigaeth gymdeithasol ar gyflenwyr i drosglwyddo pobl yn awtomatig i'r gyfradd rataf?
Thank you for that important question. And, in fact, this question was raised only last week at the cross-party group on tackling fuel poverty. And, as you say, customers in north Wales pay the highest standing charges in Great Britain, and are so disadvantaged because they live so close to those sources of affordable, renewable electricity, which is exported through the national grid. So, again, these are the discussions I've been having with Ofgem—we had them at the cross-party group only last week. We stressed the need for a holistic review of retail charges. Of course, this issue of standing charges is crucial, and we've called for an abolition of this, but, as you say, the way forward for reform is to introduce a social tariff.
So, I have raised this, not only every time I meet with Ofgem, but when I met with the UK Minister for Energy Consumers in October last year—Minister Fahnbulleh—to discuss whether we can work together for a permanent effective form of protection for householders in need. They are reviewing their fuel poverty strategy. I think their upcoming warm homes plan will be key to tackling fuel poverty. And I raised with the UK Government the possibility of a social tariff and other forms of social discounting, because we do think that would be the progressive way that can support our most vulnerable households. But also we know that social tariff works in the water industry; the social tariff operates through many of our water companies. And I think it's something where we have to make the case: we've supported a social tariff, and I think there's actually a lot of support across this Chamber for a social tariff. So, thank you for putting this on the agenda again today.
Diolch am y cwestiwn pwysig hwn. Ac mewn gwirionedd, cododd y cwestiwn yr wythnos diwethaf yn y grŵp trawsbleidiol ar fynd i'r afael â thlodi tanwydd. Ac fel y dywedwch, cwsmeriaid yng ngogledd Cymru sy'n talu'r taliadau sefydlog uchaf ym Mhrydain, ac maent dan anfantais o'r fath oherwydd eu bod yn byw mor agos at ffynonellau o drydan adnewyddadwy fforddiadwy, sy'n cael ei allforio drwy'r grid cenedlaethol. Felly, unwaith eto, rwyf wedi bod yn cael y trafodaethau hyn gydag Ofgem—fe'u cawsom yn y grŵp trawsbleidiol yr wythnos diwethaf. Fe wnaethom bwysleisio'r angen am adolygiad cyfannol o daliadau manwerthu. Wrth gwrs, mae mater taliadau sefydlog yn hanfodol, ac rydym wedi galw am eu diddymu ond fel y dywedwch, y ffordd ymlaen ar gyfer diwygio yw cyflwyno tariff cymdeithasol.
Felly, rwyf wedi codi hyn, nid yn unig bob tro y byddaf yn cyfarfod ag Ofgem, ond pan gyfarfûm â Gweinidog Defnyddwyr Ynni y DU ym mis Hydref y llynedd—y Gweinidog Fahnbulleh—i drafod a allwn weithio gyda'n gilydd dros fath effeithiol parhaol o ddiogelwch i ddeiliaid tai mewn angen. Maent yn adolygu eu strategaeth tlodi tanwydd. Rwy'n credu y bydd eu cynllun cartrefi cynnes sydd ar y ffordd yn allweddol i fynd i'r afael â thlodi tanwydd. A chodais gyda Llywodraeth y DU y posibilrwydd o dariff cymdeithasol a mathau eraill o ddisgownt cymdeithasol, gan ein bod yn credu mai dyna'r ffordd flaengar a all gefnogi ein haelwydydd mwyaf agored i niwed. Ond hefyd fe wyddom fod tariff cymdeithasol yn gweithio yn y diwydiant dŵr; mae'r tariff cymdeithasol yn gweithredu trwy lawer o'n cwmnïau dŵr. Ac rwy'n credu ei fod yn rhywbeth lle mae'n rhaid inni gyflwyno'r achos: rydym wedi cefnogi tariff cymdeithasol, ac rwy'n credu bod llawer o gefnogaeth ar draws y Siambr hon i dariff cymdeithasol. Felly, diolch am roi hyn ar yr agenda eto heddiw.
As we discussed at last week's meeting of the cross-party group on fuel poverty and energy efficiency, north Wales and Merseyside households still pay the highest standing charges in the UK for energy, no matter how much they use. After you had to leave the meeting, Ofgem told us that this is due in part to the density of the network, and in part to the design features of north Wales, and that this regional variation was something they were looking at. After noting that north Wales was an energy producer and exporter, I asked Ofgem whether they're factoring into this how regions with the highest standing charges, which are also net energy producers, can benefit from that in their bills. In your discussions with Ofgem, what consideration will you therefore give to their response that, at the moment, you get no regional benefit on wholesale but you get a regional cost on the network? I think they said, 'You know, we would look to try and bring those two decisions into line with each other.'
Fel y gwnaethom ei drafod yng nghyfarfod y grŵp trawsbleidiol ar dlodi tanwydd ac effeithlonrwydd ynni yr wythnos diwethaf, aelwydydd gogledd Cymru a Glannau Mersi sy'n dal i dalu’r taliadau sefydlog uchaf yn y DU am ynni, ni waeth faint y maent yn ei ddefnyddio. Ar ôl ichi orfod gadael y cyfarfod, dywedodd Ofgem wrthym fod hyn yn rhannol oherwydd dwysedd y rhwydwaith, ac yn rhannol oherwydd nodweddion cynllunio gogledd Cymru, a bod yr amrywiad rhanbarthol hwn yn rhywbeth roeddent yn ei edrych arno. Ar ôl nodi bod gogledd Cymru yn gynhyrchydd ac yn allforiwr ynni, gofynnais i Ofgem a ydynt yn ystyried sut y gall y rhanbarthau sydd â’r taliadau sefydlog uchaf, sydd hefyd yn gynhyrchwyr ynni net, elwa ar hynny yn eu biliau. Yn eich trafodaethau ag Ofgem, pa ystyriaeth y byddwch chi'n ei rhoi felly i’w hymateb nad ydych, ar hyn o bryd, yn cael unrhyw fudd rhanbarthol ar gyfanwerthu ond eich bod yn cael cost ranbarthol ar y rhwydwaith? Rwy'n credu eu bod wedi dweud, 'Wyddoch chi, byddem yn ceisio dod â'r ddau benderfyniad hynny yn unol â'i gilydd.'
Can I just thank Mark Isherwood for the role he plays in the cross-party group, as the chair, and also for the huge experience now you have and the engagement you have with those organisations who have all the evidence, who are working at the front line? And of course we heard from National Energy Action, who service and support the working group, the cross-party group. But I think it is very useful that you had that discussion, you had the deputy director there from Ofgem, and you had experts around the table—those on the front line. So, I will take this back, in terms of the questions and the issues that you raised and you explored with them, in terms of regional variation and regional cost on the network. I'm grateful for that.
The point about standing charges is that they don't consider consumers' ability to pay, and households can't lessen the impact of standing charges. In fact, we had quite a lot of information about energy debt, didn't we, Mark, at that meeting, and it was appalling to hear that there are people paying standing charges when they actually aren't even receiving a fuel supply, through disconnection, particularly, through prepayment meters. So, thank you for that contribution; I will follow it up.
A gaf i ddiolch i Mark Isherwood am y rôl y mae’n ei chwarae yn y grŵp trawsbleidiol, fel y cadeirydd, a hefyd am y profiad enfawr sydd gennych a’r ymgysylltu a wnewch gyda’r sefydliadau sydd â’r holl dystiolaeth, sy’n gweithio ar y rheng flaen? Ac wrth gwrs, clywsom gan National Energy Action, sy’n gwasanaethu ac yn cefnogi’r gweithgor, y grŵp trawsbleidiol. Ond credaf ei bod yn ddefnyddiol iawn eich bod wedi cael y drafodaeth honno, eich bod wedi cael y dirprwy gyfarwyddwr yno o Ofgem, a bod gennych arbenigwyr o amgylch y bwrdd—y rheini ar y rheng flaen. Felly, byddaf yn ystyried hyn, o ran y cwestiynau a’r materion a godwyd gennych ac y buoch yn eu harchwilio gyda hwy, a'r amrywio rhanbarthol a chost ranbarthol ar y rhwydwaith. Rwy'n ddiolchgar am hynny.
Y pwynt am daliadau sefydlog yw nad ydynt yn ystyried gallu defnyddwyr i dalu, ac ni all aelwydydd leihau effaith taliadau sefydlog. Mewn gwirionedd, cawsom gryn dipyn o wybodaeth am ddyled ynni yn y cyfarfod hwnnw, oni chawsom, Mark, ac roedd yn warthus clywed bod pobl yn talu taliadau sefydlog pan nad ydynt hyd yn oed yn cael cyflenwad tanwydd, gan eu bod wedi'u datgysylltu, drwy fesuryddion rhagdalu yn fwyaf arbennig. Felly, diolch am eich cyfraniad; byddaf yn mynd ar drywydd y mater.
Cwestiynau nawr gan lefarwyr y pleidiau. Llefarydd y Ceidwadwyr, Altaf Hussain.
Questions now from the party spokespeople. The Conservatives spokesperson, Altaf Hussain.
Diolch, Llywydd. Cabinet Secretary, the youth justice blueprint for Wales prioritises a whole-system approach to prevent offending of children and young people. However, it does not seem to be working. We have seen an explosion of violent crimes perpetrated by young people recently, with the terrible incident at Ysgol Dyffryn Aman, which highlighted the knife crime being perpetrated by teens in Wales. In recent days, we have seen just how widespread it is, with three teens arrested in an airport for attempting murder. But it's not limited to our cities: a 16-year-old stabbed another teenager in mid Wales at the weekend. Cabinet Secretary, what discussions have taken place at Cabinet, with the police and crime commissioners, and the UK Government about the uptick in violent crimes being perpetrated by young people?
Diolch, Lywydd. Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet, mae'r glasbrint ar gyfer cyfiawnder ieuenctid Cymru yn blaenoriaethu dull system gyfan o atal plant a phobl ifanc rhag troseddu. Fodd bynnag, nid yw'n ymddangos ei fod yn gweithio. Rydym wedi gweld ffrwydrad o droseddau treisgar gan bobl ifanc yn ddiweddar, gyda’r digwyddiad ofnadwy yn Ysgol Dyffryn Aman, a dynnodd sylw at y troseddau cyllyll a gyflawnir gan bobl ifanc yn eu harddegau yng Nghymru. Yn ystod y dyddiau diwethaf, rydym wedi gweld pa mor gyffredin yw hyn, gyda thri o bobl ifanc yn eu harddegau yn cael eu harestio mewn maes awyr am geisio llofruddio rhywun. Ond nid yw'n gyfyngedig i'n dinasoedd: trywanodd bachgen 16 oed lanc arall yn ei arddegau yn y canolbarth dros y penwythnos. Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet, pa drafodaethau sydd wedi’u cynnal yn y Cabinet, gyda’r comisiynwyr heddlu a throseddu, a chyda Llywodraeth y DU ynglŷn â'r cynnydd yn nifer y troseddau treisgar sy’n cael eu cyflawni gan bobl ifanc?
Thank you very much, Altaf Hussain, for that question. And I do think that the youth justice blueprint, which was published, of course, back in July 2019—and it takes very much a child-centred, child-first preventative approach to meeting the needs of children in the justice system—has been effective. It has been effective because it has reduced the numbers of young people entering the criminal justice system.
The crucial areas of policy are about prevention, and I have to say that this youth justice blueprint was developed with the previous Conservative Government, with the Ministry of Justice, and the Welsh Government, policing in Wales and our Youth Justice Board for England and Wales. But, together, we developed this plan and, of course, it does focus on prevention, pre-court diversion and custody. Crucially important is prevention, of course. So, we need to prevent those kinds of incidents. They are awful incidents that you’ve recorded for us today, that you’ve reported and reminded of us today—incidents in different circumstances. But they are incidents. In terms of the overall picture, we can see that we’ve significantly reduced the number of young people entering the criminal justice system.
Diolch am eich cwestiwn, Altaf Hussain. Ac rwy'n credu bod y glasbrint ar gyfer cyfiawnder ieuenctid, a gyhoeddwyd yn ôl ym mis Gorffennaf 2019—ac mae'n cynnwys dull gweithredu ataliol sy'n canolbwyntio ar y plentyn ac yn rhoi'r plentyn yn gyntaf i ddiwallu anghenion plant yn y system gyfiawnder—wedi bod yn effeithiol. Mae wedi bod yn effeithiol am ei fod wedi lleihau nifer y bobl ifanc sy’n mynd i mewn i’r system cyfiawnder troseddol.
Mae’r meysydd polisi hollbwysig yn ymwneud ag atal, ac mae’n rhaid imi ddweud bod y glasbrint hwn ar gyfer cyfiawnder ieuenctid wedi’i ddatblygu gyda’r Llywodraeth Geidwadol flaenorol, gyda’r Weinyddiaeth Gyfiawnder, a Llywodraeth Cymru, plismona yng Nghymru a Bwrdd Cyfiawnder Ieuenctid Cymru a Lloegr. Ond gyda’n gilydd, fe wnaethom ddatblygu’r cynllun hwn, ac wrth gwrs, mae’n canolbwyntio ar atal, dargyfeirio cyn achos llys a'r ddalfa. Mae atal yn hollbwysig, wrth gwrs. Felly, mae angen inni atal y mathau hynny o ddigwyddiadau. Rydych wedi crybwyll ac wedi ein hatgoffa am ddigwyddiadau ofnadwy heddiw—digwyddiadau mewn gwahanol amgylchiadau. Ond maent yn ddigwyddiadau. O ran y darlun cyffredinol, gallwn weld ein bod wedi lleihau nifer y bobl ifanc sy'n mynd i mewn i'r system cyfiawnder troseddol yn sylweddol.
Thank you, Cabinet Secretary. Of course, violent crime is not just being carried out by young people on young people; we had a fatal shooting at Talbot Green on Sunday, underlining the fact that South Wales Police and Gwent Police are amongst the only force areas to see a rise in violent crime. Across England and Wales, police forces are seeing a decrease in violent crime against the person, yet, in Wales, it is going the wrong way. South Wales Police are the only force to see a rise in sexual violence. They are also terrible in converting reports into convictions—more than 3,400 rapes and sexual offences were reported to South Wales Police, but only 155 of these cases resulted in charges. Cabinet Secretary, the PCCs are increasing the police precept for council tax payers. Do you believe they are presenting value for money? What discussions have you had about their plans to tackle violent crimes and sexual violence in particular?
Diolch, Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet. Wrth gwrs, nid gan bobl ifanc ar bobl ifanc yn unig y bydd troseddau treisgar yn cael eu cyflawni; cawsom achos o saethu angheuol yn Nhonysguboriau ddydd Sul, sy'n tanlinellu’r ffaith bod Heddlu De Cymru a Heddlu Gwent ymhlith yr unig ardaloedd heddlu sydd wedi gweld cynnydd mewn troseddau treisgar. Ledled Cymru a Lloegr, mae heddluoedd yn gweld gostyngiad mewn troseddau treisgar yn erbyn unigolion, ac eto, yng Nghymru, mae’n mynd i'r cyfeiriad anghywir. Heddlu De Cymru yw'r unig heddlu i weld cynnydd mewn trais rhywiol. Maent hefyd yn ofnadwy am droi adroddiadau am droseddau'n euogfarnau—cafodd mwy na 3,400 achos o dreisio a throseddau rhywiol eu hadrodd wrth Heddlu De Cymru, ond 155 yn unig o'r achosion hyn a arweiniodd at gyhuddiadau. Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet, mae’r comisiynwyr heddlu a throseddu'n cynyddu praesept yr heddlu ar gyfer talwyr y dreth gyngor. A ydych chi'n credu eu bod yn darparu gwerth am arian? Pa drafodaethau a gawsoch ynglŷn â'u cynlluniau i fynd i’r afael â throseddau treisgar a thrais rhywiol yn benodol?
Thank you very much for that question. And again, you draw attention to events. I won’t respond to them at this point in time, but I would say that—. And it was very significant, I think, yesterday, in our debate on International Women’s Day, that, virtually across the Chamber, we all—everyone—raised the fact that this is enduring and endemic, violence against women, domestic abuse and sexual violence, which of course we have to work on to address. Again, it goes back to my comments on the youth justice system as well in terms of prevention, early intervention and indeed a robust criminal justice system to address these issues.
Now, of course, policing isn’t devolved. We would like it to be devolved, but it isn’t devolved. But we have a partnership approach with policing to address this. So, I think the violence prevention unit is very effective. I co-chair the strategy board on the violence against women, domestic abuse and sexual violence, with the police and crime commissioner, Emma Wools, as I said yesterday. But I also chair the policing partnership board. I had a meeting only two weeks ago with the policing Minister, Diana Johnson, because they are looking at reform of policing, and we want to engage in that. Indeed, all our PCCs I meet with regularly as well.
But I think this is about partnership. It is about early intervention. It is about a robust criminal justice system. But we feel that much of the engagement of devolved responsibilities, devolved services, whether it’s health, housing, education—back to education—and social services and local government, is crucial for us to be able to have a crime-free, as crime-free-as-possible, Wales, where we invest in those services that can prevent crime, and indeed help support a robust criminal justice system.
Diolch am eich cwestiwn. Ac unwaith eto, rydych chi'n tynnu sylw at ddigwyddiadau. Nid wyf am ymateb iddynt ar hyn o bryd, ond hoffwn ddweud—. A chredaf ei bod yn arwyddocaol iawn, ddoe, yn ein dadl ar Ddiwrnod Rhyngwladol y Menywod, fod pob un ohonom, fwy neu lai, ar draws y Siambr—pawb—wedi codi’r ffaith bod trais yn erbyn menywod, cam-drin domestig a thrais rhywiol yn barhaus ac yn endemig, a bod yn rhaid inni weithio arno i fynd i’r afael ag ef. Unwaith eto, mae a wnelo â fy sylwadau ar y system cyfiawnder ieuenctid hefyd o ran atal, ymyrraeth gynnar, ac yn wir, system cyfiawnder troseddol gadarn i fynd i’r afael â’r materion hyn.
Nawr, nid yw plismona wedi'i ddatganoli. Hoffem iddo gael ei ddatganoli, ond nid yw wedi'i ddatganoli. Ond mae gennym ddull partneriaeth gyda phlismona i fynd i'r afael â hyn. Felly, credaf fod yr uned atal trais yn effeithiol iawn. Rwy’n cyd-gadeirio’r bwrdd strategaeth ar drais yn erbyn menywod, cam-drin domestig a thrais rhywiol, gyda’r comisiynydd heddlu a throseddu, Emma Wools, fel y dywedais ddoe. Ond rwyf hefyd yn cadeirio'r bwrdd partneriaeth plismona. Cefais gyfarfod gwta bythefnos yn ôl gyda’r Gweinidog plismona, Diana Johnson, gan eu bod yn edrych ar ddiwygio plismona, ac rydym am fod rhan o hynny. Yn wir, rwy'n cyfarfod yn rheolaidd â phob un o'n comisiynwyr heddlu a throseddu hefyd.
Ond credaf fod hyn yn ymwneud â phartneriaeth. Mae’n ymwneud ag ymyrraeth gynnar. Mae’n ymwneud â system cyfiawnder troseddol gadarn. Ond rydym yn teimlo bod llawer o ymgysylltiad cyfrifoldebau datganoledig, gwasanaethau datganoledig, boed yn iechyd, tai, addysg—yn ôl at addysg—a gwasanaethau cymdeithasol a llywodraeth leol, yn hanfodol inni allu cael Cymru ddi-drosedd, mor ddi-drosedd â phosibl, lle rydym yn buddsoddi yn y gwasanaethau hynny a all atal troseddu, a helpu i gefnogi system cyfiawnder troseddol gadarn.
I am grateful, Cabinet Secretary. Failure by the police to tackle serious crimes erodes trust in our police and criminal justice system. But the action of individual officers also has a chilling effect on trust. We’ve seen a series of high-profile misconduct trials against officers in south Wales and Gwent, the most recent being around fraudulent access to the police national computer and providing privileged information to members of the public. Cabinet Secretary, have you discussed tackling police corruption with any of the PCCs, or the Home Secretary? Thank you.
Rwy’n ddiolchgar, Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet. Mae methiant yr heddlu i fynd i'r afael â throseddau difrifol yn erydu ymddiriedaeth yn ein heddlu a'n system cyfiawnder troseddol. Ond mae gweithredoedd swyddogion unigol hefyd yn cael effaith iasol ar ymddiriedaeth. Rydym wedi gweld cyfres o achosion camymddwyn proffil uchel yn erbyn swyddogion yn ne Cymru a Gwent, gyda'r mwyaf diweddar yn ymwneud â mynediad twyllodrus at gyfrifiadur cenedlaethol yr heddlu a darparu gwybodaeth freintiedig i aelodau'r cyhoedd. Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet, a ydych chi wedi trafod mynd i’r afael â llygredigaeth yn yr heddlu gydag unrhyw un o’r comisiynwyr heddlu a throseddu, neu’r Ysgrifennydd Cartref? Diolch.
Thank you. And I think we were all horrified by reports of fraudulent police officers. It is very important that we actually do hear about this, that it’s transparent, that it's open and we hear about it and action is taken by the chief constables—it’s an operational issue—and we can see the outcomes of that. And also, this applies, of course, to the behaviour of our police forces as well. And again, I chair the policing partnership board, and I very much respect the role of the chief constables, the police and crime commissioners, as we work together to address these issues.
If people and our communities are going to have trust in the police forces, which are there for all, then we have to root out, not just in terms of what we have seen—appalling fraudulent activities, as you’ve described—but also misogyny, sexism, racism, homophobia from our police forces.
Diolch. Ac rwy'n credu bod pob un ohonom wedi ein syfrdanu gan adroddiadau am swyddogion heddlu twyllodrus. Mae'n bwysig iawn ein bod yn clywed am hyn, ei fod yn dryloyw, ei fod yn agored a'n bod yn clywed amdano a bod y prif gwnstabliaid yn gweithredu—mae'n fater gweithredol—a gallwn weld canlyniadau hynny. Hefyd, mae hyn yn berthnasol i ymddygiad ein heddluoedd yn ogystal. Ac unwaith eto, rwy’n cadeirio bwrdd y bartneriaeth blismona, ac rwy’n parchu'n fawr rôl y prif gwnstabliaid, y comisiynwyr heddlu a throseddu, wrth inni weithio gyda’n gilydd i fynd i’r afael â’r materion hyn.
Os yw pobl a’n cymunedau yn mynd i ymddiried yn yr heddluoedd, sydd yno ar gyfer pawb, mae’n rhaid inni ddadwreiddio, nid yn unig yr hyn a welsom—gweithgareddau twyllodrus echrydus, fel y'u disgrifiwyd gennych—ond hefyd casineb at fenywod, rhywiaeth, hiliaeth, homoffobia o'n heddluoedd.
Llefarydd Plaid Cymru, Sioned Williams.
Plaid Cymru spokesperson, Sioned Williams.
Diolch, Llywydd. The Labour UK Government are planning welfare reforms that will cut billions of pounds from social security payments, which will hit thousands of people in Wales who are already struggling hard, especially disabled people. I do really find it astounding, not to mention disappointing, that this is a Labour Government making these types of political choices, to target the least well off, the least resilient—disabled people—continuing with Tory policies. And yet again in Wales, we’re going to be left picking up the pieces, trying to shield the people of Wales from Westminster, because we know the safety net isn’t sufficient as it is. Trussell, who say they are appalled by these plans, say 68 per cent of people claiming universal credit have gone without essentials in the last six months—68 per cent.
Now, on many occasions, Cabinet Secretary, as you did two years ago, you’ve condemned the same welfare reforms as welfare cuts, lamenting that we have a fragile welfare state. So, will the Welsh Government challenge these plans? We didn’t get an answer from the First Minister on that yesterday. Do you still regard them as cuts that are damaging the welfare state? And what assessment is being done in preparation to identify what new gaps will be torn in the safety net, and what measures will need to be taken by the Welsh Government to mitigate the impact of this?
Diolch, Lywydd. Mae Llywodraeth Lafur y DU yn cynllunio diwygiadau lles a fydd yn torri biliynau o bunnoedd oddi ar daliadau nawdd cymdeithasol, a fydd yn taro miloedd o bobl yng Nghymru sydd eisoes yn ei chael hi'n anodd iawn, yn enwedig pobl anabl. Mae'n wirioneddol syfrdanol i mi, heb sôn am siomedig, fod y Llywodraeth Lafur hon yn gwneud y mathau hyn o ddewisiadau gwleidyddol, gan dargedu'r lleiaf cefnog, y lleiaf gwydn—pobl anabl—a pharhau â pholisïau'r Torïaid. Ac eto, yng Nghymru, rydym yn mynd i orfod codi'r darnau, ceisio gwarchod pobl Cymru rhag San Steffan, gan y gwyddom nad yw'r rhwyd ddiogelwch yn ddigonol fel y mae. Mae Trussell, sy’n dweud eu bod wedi’u dychryn gan y cynlluniau hyn, yn dweud bod 68 y cant o bobl sy’n hawlio credyd cynhwysol wedi mynd heb hanfodion yn y chwe mis diwethaf—68 y cant.
Nawr, ar sawl achlysur, Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet, fel y gwnaethoch ddwy flynedd yn ôl, rydych chi wedi condemnio'r un diwygiadau lles fel toriadau lles, gan resynu at y ffaith bod gennym wladwriaeth les fregus. Felly, a wnaiff Llywodraeth Cymru herio’r cynlluniau hyn? Ni chawsom ateb gan y Prif Weinidog ar hynny ddoe. A ydych chi'n dal i’w hystyried yn doriadau sy’n niweidio’r wladwriaeth les? A pha asesiad a wneir i baratoi ar gyfer nodi pa fylchau newydd a fydd yn cael eu creu yn y rhwyd ddiogelwch, a pha fesurau y bydd angen i Lywodraeth Cymru eu rhoi ar waith i liniaru effaith hyn?
Thank you very much for that question, Sioned Williams. And of course, we are now awaiting the publication of a Green Paper on what have been highlighted as possible changes coming forth for welfare reforms. When it comes through, we will carefully consider the impact of proposed welfare reforms on people in Wales, and provide a cross-Government response. I feel this is where we have, indeed, responded to previous changes and proposals from previous UK Governments in terms of the impact of welfare reform on disabled people in Wales. So, I can assure you that we will be looking very carefully at this. We do need to ensure that we have a welfare system that supports disabled people, but we recognise we need to ensure that it also effectively supports people into work, offering an effective financial safety net for people who are unable to work. I think those are key principles and I think that’s something that many of the charities that have been commenting on this have said themselves, but, at this point in time, we await the proposals.
Diolch am eich cwestiwn, Sioned Williams. Ac wrth gwrs, rydym yn aros nawr am gyhoeddiad Papur Gwyrdd ar yr hyn a amlygwyd fel newidiadau posibl ar gyfer diwygiadau lles. Pan ddaw drwodd, byddwn yn ystyried yn ofalus beth yw effaith diwygiadau lles arfaethedig ar bobl yng Nghymru, ac yn darparu ymateb trawslywodraethol. Rwy’n teimlo mai dyma ble rydym wedi ymateb i newidiadau a chynigion blaenorol gan Lywodraethau blaenorol y DU ar effaith diwygio lles ar bobl anabl yng Nghymru. Felly, gallaf roi sicrwydd i chi y byddwn yn edrych yn ofalus iawn ar hyn. Mae angen inni sicrhau bod gennym system les sy'n cefnogi pobl anabl, ond rydym yn cydnabod bod angen inni sicrhau ei bod hefyd yn cefnogi pobl yn effeithiol i mewn i waith, gan gynnig rhwyd ddiogelwch ariannol effeithiol i bobl na allant weithio. Rwy'n credu bod y rheini'n egwyddorion allweddol ac yn rhywbeth y mae llawer o'r elusennau sydd wedi bod yn gwneud sylwadau ar hyn wedi'i ddweud eu hunain, ond ar hyn o bryd, rydym yn aros am y cynigion.
Yes, because PIP payments, of course, are nothing to do with employment; they’re about making that more level playing field, aren’t they, for disabled people, giving the support they need to live independent lives and possibly support them into work, therefore.
In their 'State of Wales' briefing on economic inactivity and ill health, the Bevan Foundation set out how proposals in the UK Government’s 'Get Britain Working' White Paper would have a deep impact on Wales as we have higher rates of disabled people of working age than the UK average, and five of the 10 UK local authorities with the highest rates of economic activity because of long-term illness are in Wales. The proportion of the working-age population who are disabled in some local authorities is even higher than the Wales figure. More than one in three is disabled in two of the local authority areas I represent, and experts and campaigners are warning that welfare cuts will have a chilling effect on engagement with support, leading not to increased employment but to increased poverty. So, the Bevan Foundation stresses the UK Government will need to address what they term the huge double disadvantage that people in Wales face, because there are not only high levels of disability and long-term illness in the working-age population, but they’re also less likely to be in employment and to say that health is the reason. So, what discussions have you had with the UK Government on the need to focus on areas of greatest need, such as Wales, and increase resource for devolved services? Do you agree with the Bevan Foundation it wouldn’t be appropriate to use the Barnett formula, because the population-based formula would fall far short of need?
Wrth gwrs, oherwydd nid yw'r taliadau annibyniaeth personol yn ddim i’w wneud â chyflogaeth; maent yn ymwneud â chreu mwy o degwch i bobl anabl, a rhoi'r cymorth sydd ei angen arnynt i fyw bywydau annibynnol, ac o bosibl felly, eu cefnogi i mewn i waith.
Yn eu papur briffio ‘Cyflwr Cymru’ ar anweithgarwch economaidd ac afiechyd, nododd Sefydliad Bevan sut y byddai cynigion ym Mhapur Gwyn Llywodraeth y DU, ‘Get Britain Working’, yn cael effaith ddwys ar Gymru gan fod gennym gyfraddau uwch o bobl anabl o oedran gweithio na chyfartaledd y DU, ac mae pump o’r 10 awdurdod lleol yn y DU sydd â’r cyfraddau uchaf o anweithgarwch economaidd oherwydd salwch hirdymor yng Nghymru. Mae cyfran y boblogaeth o oedran gweithio sy'n anabl mewn rhai awdurdodau lleol hyd yn oed yn uwch na'r ffigur ar gyfer Cymru gyfan. Mae mwy nag un o bob tri o bobl yn anabl mewn dwy o’r ardaloedd awdurdod lleol rwy'n eu cynrychioli, ac mae arbenigwyr ac ymgyrchwyr yn rhybuddio y bydd toriadau lles yn cael effaith iasol ar ymgysylltiad â chymorth, gan arwain nid at gynnydd mewn cyflogaeth ond at gynnydd mewn tlodi. Felly, mae Sefydliad Bevan yn pwysleisio y bydd angen i Lywodraeth y DU fynd i’r afael â’r hyn y maent yn ei alw’n anfantais ddwbl enfawr y mae pobl yng Nghymru yn ei hwynebu, oherwydd nid yn unig y ceir lefelau uchel o anabledd a salwch hirdymor yn y boblogaeth oedran gweithio, maent hefyd yn llai tebygol o fod mewn cyflogaeth ac i ddweud mai iechyd yw’r rheswm. Felly, pa drafodaethau a gawsoch chi gyda Llywodraeth y DU ynglŷn â'r angen i ganolbwyntio ar yr ardaloedd sydd â’r angen mwyaf, megis Cymru, a chynyddu adnoddau ar gyfer gwasanaethau datganoledig? A ydych chi'n cytuno â Sefydliad Bevan na fyddai’n briodol defnyddio fformiwla Barnett, gan y byddai’r fformiwla sy’n seiliedig ar boblogaeth yn llawer is na’r angen?
Thank you for that question. We do have a four nations inter-ministerial meeting with the UK Government Department for Work and Pensions. It’s been set up, and it is four nations. There was previously a bilateral arrangement with the Welsh Government and the UK Government, but it is good that it’s now a four-nations meeting. We are going to be discussing issues like any reforms to the benefits system, so that is an opportunity. But I also would say that I welcome the commitment that the UK Government has given to work with disabled people in Wales so that their views and voices are at the heart of any proposed changes to disability and sickness benefits.
I think that our disability rights plan, which very shortly we’ll be launching for consultation, does address how we in Wales, within our powers and responsibilities, should be working to ensure that disabled people who do want to work and are seeking work can be supported. Obviously, that, again, has to have an interface and interaction with job centres, with DWP. But the fact that we have now, for several years, employed five disabled people’s employment champions, means they bring lived experience and practical understanding of the social model of disability, which will underpin our disability rights plan.
Indeed, working with employers, employer representatives—and, of course, it links very much to our commitment to social partnership—across the public and private sectors, it’s about promoting recruitment, retention and progression of disabled people who want to work but who face barriers. That’s what we need to address.
Diolch am eich cwestiwn. Mae gennym gyfarfod rhyngweinidogol pedair gwlad ag Adran Gwaith a Phensiynau Llywodraeth y DU. Mae wedi cael ei sefydlu, ac mae'n bedair cenedl. Roedd trefniant dwyochrog blaenorol gyda Llywodraeth Cymru a Llywodraeth y DU, ond mae’n dda ei fod bellach yn gyfarfod pedair gwlad. Rydym yn mynd i fod yn trafod materion fel unrhyw ddiwygiadau i’r system fudd-daliadau, felly mae hwnnw’n gyfle. Ond byddwn hefyd yn dweud fy mod yn croesawu ymrwymiad Llywodraeth y DU i weithio gyda phobl anabl yng Nghymru fel bod eu barn a’u lleisiau yn y canol mewn unrhyw newidiadau arfaethedig i fudd-daliadau anabledd a salwch.
Credaf fod ein cynllun hawliau pobl anabl, y byddwn yn ei lansio cyn bo hir ar gyfer ymgynghoriad, yn mynd i’r afael â sut y dylem ni, yng Nghymru, o fewn ein pwerau a’n cyfrifoldebau, weithio i sicrhau y gellir cefnogi pobl anabl sydd am weithio ac sy’n chwilio am waith. Yn amlwg, unwaith eto, mae’n rhaid i hynny ryngwynebu a rhyngweithio â chanolfannau gwaith, gyda'r Adran Gwaith a Phensiynau. Ond mae’r ffaith ein bod bellach, ers sawl blwyddyn, wedi cyflogi pum hyrwyddwr cyflogaeth i bobl anabl, yn golygu eu bod yn dod â phrofiad bywyd a dealltwriaeth ymarferol o’r model cymdeithasol o anabledd, a fydd yn sail i’n cynllun hawliau pobl anabl.
Yn wir, gan weithio gyda chyflogwyr, cynrychiolwyr cyflogwyr—ac wrth gwrs, mae'n cysylltu'n fawr iawn â'n hymrwymiad i bartneriaeth gymdeithasol—ar draws y sectorau cyhoeddus a phreifat, mae'n ymwneud â hyrwyddo recriwtio, cadw a datblygiad pobl anabl sy'n dymuno gweithio ond sy'n wynebu rhwystrau. Dyna y mae angen inni fynd i'r afael ag ef.
Diolch. The Bevan Foundation also highlights how the Welsh Government will need to consider how to support disabled people in Wales if there are changes to health and welfare benefits, because an increasing demand for welfare advice will inevitably result, and if the benefit changes include reductions in eligibility or the value of benefits, there could be increased demand for devolved grants and allowances, such as the discretionary assistance fund and help from social services, and additional costs for the Welsh Government, local authorities and third sector organisations would, therefore, be disproportionately higher in Wales than in England. The recent inquiry on the disability employment gap held by the Equality and Social Justice Committee, of which I am a member, heard deep and widespread concern about the lack of progress on the publication and implementation of the work of the disability rights taskforce and the lack of progress too on your programme for government commitment to incorporate the United Nations convention on the rights of disabled people. So, what assessments and cross-governmental work have been undertaken to ensure enhanced support is achievable? And when will we see delivery of the disability action plan and incorporation of the UNCRDP?
Diolch. Mae Sefydliad Bevan hefyd yn tynnu sylw at sut y bydd angen i Lywodraeth Cymru ystyried sut i gefnogi pobl anabl yng Nghymru os gwneir newidiadau i fudd-daliadau iechyd a lles, gan ei bod yn anochel y bydd hynny'n arwain at alw cynyddol am gyngor lles, ac os bydd y newidiadau i fudd-daliadau’n cynnwys gostyngiadau mewn cymhwysedd neu werth budd-daliadau, gallai fod mwy o alw am grantiau a lwfansau datganoledig, megis y gronfa cymorth dewisol a chymorth gan y gwasanaethau cymdeithasol, a byddai costau ychwanegol i Lywodraeth Cymru, awdurdodau lleol a sefydliadau trydydd sector yn uwch felly yng Nghymru o gymharu â Lloegr. Clywodd yr ymchwiliad diweddar i’r bwlch cyflogaeth anabledd a gynhaliwyd gan y Pwyllgor Cydraddoldeb a Chyfiawnder Cymdeithasol yr wyf yn aelod ohono, bryder dwfn ac eang am y diffyg cynnydd ar gyhoeddi a gweithredu gwaith y tasglu hawliau pobl anabl a’r diffyg cynnydd hefyd ar ymrwymiad eich rhaglen lywodraethu i ymgorffori confensiwn y Cenhedloedd Unedig ar hawliau pobl anabl. Felly, pa asesiadau a gwaith trawslywodraethol a wnaed i sicrhau bod cymorth gwell yn gyflawnadwy? A phryd y gwelwn y cynllun gweithredu ar anabledd a Chonfensiwn y Cenhedloedd Unedig ar Hawliau Pobl Anabl yn cael ei ymgorffori?
Thank you for several questions there, Sioned Williams. I really welcome the Equality and Social Justice Committee's 'Anything's Achievable with the Right Support: tackling the disability employment gap'—I was really pleased to give evidence. It couldn't have come at a better time to have that report. But, as I said, I’ve assured you that the disabled people’s rights plan is imminent; it’s due for publication very shortly. It will be out for consultation. I co-chaired the disability rights taskforce with Professor Debbie Foster. We had seven work streams, co-produced with disabled people. And, indeed, addressing the issues that you’ve raised today, I believe that the work we’re doing with the Welsh benefits charter, with the discretionary assistance fund, and working closely with our partners and stakeholders and all those who rightly influence policy in Wales, like the Bevan Foundation, will be very important as we respond to the challenges that are forthcoming.
Diolch am sawl cwestiwn yno, Sioned Williams. Rwy'n croesawu adroddiad y Pwyllgor Cydraddoldeb a Chyfiawnder Cymdeithasol, 'Os yw’r gefnogaeth yn gywir, amdani! Mynd i’r afael â’r Bwlch Cyflogaeth Anabledd'—roeddwn yn falch iawn o roi tystiolaeth. Ni allai'r adroddiad hwnnw fod wedi dod ar adeg well. Ond fel y dywedais, rwyf wedi rhoi sicrwydd i chi fod y cynllun hawliau pobl anabl ar y ffordd; bydd yn cael ei gyhoeddi'n fuan iawn. Bydd yn destun ymgynghoriad. Bûm yn cyd-gadeirio’r tasglu hawliau pobl anabl gyda’r Athro Debbie Foster. Roedd gennym saith ffrwd waith, wedi'u cydgynhyrchu â phobl anabl. Ac yn wir, wrth fynd i'r afael â'r materion a godwyd gennych heddiw, rwy'n credu y bydd y gwaith a wnawn gyda siarter budd-daliadau Cymru, gyda'r gronfa cymorth dewisol, a gweithio'n agos gyda'n partneriaid a rhanddeiliaid a phawb sy'n dylanwadu, yn gywir ddigon, ar bolisi yng Nghymru, fel Sefydliad Bevan, yn bwysig iawn wrth inni ymateb i'r heriau sydd ar y ffordd.
3. Pa drafodaethau y mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn eu cael gyda Llywodraeth y DU ynghylch darparu cymorth priodol i garcharorion sy'n cael eu rhyddhau o garchardai Cymru? OQ62420
3. What discussions is Welsh Government having with the UK Government regarding the provision of appropriate support for prisoners being released from Welsh prisons? OQ62420
Thank you, Lesley Griffiths, for that question. Whilst justice is currently a reserved matter, many services essential to operating the justice system in Wales are devolved, including health, education and housing. We, therefore, work closely with His Majesty’s Prison and Probation Service to reduce reoffending and support families to build strong and resilient communities in Wales.
Diolch am eich cwestiwn, Lesley Griffiths. Er bod cyfiawnder yn fater a gadwyd yn ôl ar hyn o bryd, mae llawer o wasanaethau sy’n hanfodol i weithredu’r system gyfiawnder yng Nghymru wedi’u datganoli, gan gynnwys iechyd, addysg a thai. Rydym yn gweithio’n agos felly gyda Gwasanaeth Carchardai a Phrawf Ei Fawrhydi i leihau aildroseddu a chefnogi teuluoedd i adeiladu cymunedau cryf a gwydn yng Nghymru.
Recently, whilst I was waiting for a train at Wrexham General station, I assisted a newly released prisoner from HMP Berwyn. He'd been dropped off at the station with a travel warrant to get himself back to the north-east of England. He told me he couldn't write and he had no idea how to navigate the rail system, which required multiple changes for him to get through his journey. Does the Cabinet Secretary agree with me this is unacceptable and the current system absolutely sets up such individuals to fail? If she does, will you please ensure, in your discussions with relevant UK Government Ministers, proper and adequate assistance is provided for such individuals to make sure they return to their chosen destination in the most appropriate and correct way, where relevant support services should also be available?
Yn ddiweddar, wrth aros am drên yng ngorsaf Wrecsam Cyffredinol, cynorthwyais garcharor a oedd newydd ei ryddhau o garchar Berwyn. Roedd wedi'i ollwng yn yr orsaf gyda gwarant deithio i ddychwelyd i ogledd-ddwyrain Lloegr. Dywedodd wrthyf na allai ysgrifennu ac nad oedd ganddo unrhyw syniad sut i ddefnyddio'r system reilffordd, gan fod angen iddo wneud nifer o newidiadau i gwblhau ei daith. A yw Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet yn cytuno â mi fod hyn yn annerbyniol, a bod y system bresennol yn condemnio unigolion o'r fath i fethu? Os felly, a wnewch chi sicrhau, os gwelwch yn dda, yn eich trafodaethau â Gweinidogion perthnasol Llywodraeth y DU, fod cymorth priodol a digonol yn cael ei ddarparu i unigolion o’r fath i sicrhau eu bod yn dychwelyd i’w cyrchfan ddewisol yn y ffordd fwyaf priodol a chywir, lle dylai gwasanaethau cymorth perthnasol fod ar gael hefyd?
Thank you for drawing attention to that, and the situation you outline is simply not acceptable. And, if you hadn’t have been there, what would have happened to that newly released prisoner? The provision of transport for those leaving custody doesn’t fall under the remit of our services, and it does, actually, form part of the process of planning for release, which is the responsibility of the probation service. So, what, I think, is important, just in response and for Members, is that we have set up—it’s not devolved; we’d like probation to be devolved, as you know—a post-custody accommodation working group, co-chaired by senior officials in the Welsh Government and HMPPS. And that’s also looking at some of the proposed legislation we’re about to discuss to end homelessness in Wales. But this group is focusing on immediate challenges faced by people leaving prison, because it is about resettlement and successful resettlement, and I’ll certainly bring this to the attention of the group.
Diolch am dynnu sylw at hynny, ac nid yw’r sefyllfa a ddisgrifiwyd gennych yn dderbyniol. Ac os na fyddech chi wedi bod yno, beth fyddai wedi digwydd i'r carcharor hwnnw a oedd newydd ei ryddhau? Nid yw darparu cludiant i rai sy'n gadael carchar yn rhan o gylch gwaith ein gwasanaethau, ac mewn gwirionedd, mae'n rhan o'r broses o gynllunio ar gyfer rhyddhau, sef cyfrifoldeb y gwasanaeth prawf. Felly, rwy'n credu mai'r hyn sy'n bwysig, mewn ymateb ac i'r Aelodau, yw ein bod wedi sefydlu—nid yw wedi'i ddatganoli; hoffem i'r gwasanaeth prawf gael ei ddatganoli, fel y gwyddoch—gweithgor llety i rai sy'n gadael carchar, a gyd-gadeirir gan uwch swyddogion yn Llywodraeth Cymru a Gwasanaeth Carchardai a Phrawf Ei Fawrhydi. Ac mae hwnnw hefyd yn edrych ar beth o'r ddeddfwriaeth arfaethedig rydym ar fin ei thrafod i roi diwedd ar ddigartrefedd yng Nghymru. Ond mae’r grŵp hwn yn canolbwyntio ar yr heriau uniongyrchol a wynebir gan bobl sy’n gadael carchar, gan ei fod yn ymwneud ag ailsefydlu llwyddiannus, a byddaf yn sicr yn dwyn hyn i sylw’r grŵp.
Unfortunately, what I heard from Lesley Griffiths just now across the Chamber is exactly the same story as I heard when I recently visited the Salvation Army, who told me there is a crisis of homelessness for those leaving prison. Last year, the number of those managed by Welsh probation services who were homeless following release increased by 51 per cent, which is equivalent to 500 people, and around five people who are released from His Majesty's prison in Cardiff every week are then recorded as homeless.
Clearly, the current support package for those leaving prison is not adequate. There should be help given to people in place, being proactive before they leave prison, to set up somewhere to live, to set up possibly employment, because, as Lesley said, they are dropped as soon as they come out of prison and left to fend for themselves, and they've got to rush around in the 12-hour day, going to the job centre, going to all the different services that they need in order to have somewhere to sleep that night and get something in place so that they can get some money. Otherwise, what we're seeing is them falling back. As the Salvation Army said to me, and the people I met there, unfortunately, those people are falling back into drugs, alcohol and so on, and it's just not on. I know you've said this is a reserved matter, but a lot of those services that you've just outlined are devolved and we have a responsibility to do that to stop these people going into the system, and to stop homelessness in Wales.
Yn anffodus, mae’r hyn a glywais gan Lesley Griffiths ar draws y Siambr nawr yr un stori'n union ag a glywais pan ymwelais â Byddin yr Iachawdwriaeth yn ddiweddar, a ddywedodd wrthyf fod argyfwng digartrefedd ymhlith pobl sy’n gadael carchar. Y llynedd, cynyddodd nifer y rhai a reolir gan wasanaethau prawf Cymru a oedd yn ddigartref ar ôl eu rhyddhau 51 y cant, sy’n cyfateb i 500 o bobl, ac mae oddeutu pump o bobl sy’n cael eu rhyddhau o garchar Ei Fawrhydi yng Nghaerdydd bob wythnos yn cael eu cofnodi’n ddigartref wedi hynny.
Yn amlwg, nid yw’r pecyn cymorth presennol ar gyfer pobl sy’n gadael carchar yn ddigonol. Dylid rhoi cymorth ar waith i bobl, a bod yn rhagweithiol cyn iddynt adael carchar, er mwyn sicrhau rhywle i fyw, a sicrhau cyflogaeth o bosibl, oherwydd, fel y dywedodd Lesley, cânt eu gollwng cyn gynted ag y dônt allan o garchar a’u gadael i ofalu amdanynt eu hunain, ac mae’n rhaid iddynt ruthro o gwmpas am 12 awr a mynd i’r ganolfan waith, mynd i’r holl wasanaethau gwahanol sydd eu hangen arnynt er mwyn iddynt gael rhywle i gysgu y noson honno a threfnu rhywbeth er mwyn iddynt gael rhywfaint o arian. Fel arall, yr hyn a welwn yw eu bod yn llithro'n ôl. Fel y dywedodd Byddin yr Iachawdwriaeth wrthyf, a’r bobl y cyfarfûm â hwy yno, yn anffodus, mae’r bobl hynny’n llithro’n ôl i ddefnyddio cyffuriau, alcohol ac yn y blaen, ac nid yw'n iawn. Gwn eich bod wedi dweud bod hwn yn fater a gadwyd yn ôl, ond mae llawer o'r gwasanaethau a nodwyd gennych wedi'u datganoli ac mae gennym gyfrifoldeb i wneud hynny er mwyn atal y bobl hyn rhag mynd i mewn i'r system, ac i roi diwedd ar ddigartrefedd yng Nghymru.
Thank you very much, Laura Anne Jones. I couldn't agree more with what you're saying. I think any evidence that Members have around the Chamber, we need to know so that we can share those. Although it's not devolved, we are doing as much in a joint capacity—. I've already mentioned the post-custody accommodation working group, a co-chaired working group, and it's actually learning from some earlier schemes that have been successful. You'll be very, I'm sure, hopefully, supportive of the recent ending homelessness White Paper, which proposed bespoke amendments to the Housing (Wales) Act 2014, with the aim of improving outcomes for men and women in custody, because unless—. It has to be before release that arrangements should be put in place, because of those immediate challenges that face prisoners when they leave prison. And also, we have got some good work. There's a small task and finish group looking at the national pathway for homelessness services for children, young people and adults in the secure estate, and there have been changes in probation and homelessness services since that publication, but this is very valuable evidence for us to take back to these working groups and to take action, because this is how we need to ensure there's not only effective release, preventing homelessness, but also routes into work, accommodation, and a way from the criminal justice system.
Diolch, Laura Anne Jones. Rwy'n cytuno'n llwyr â'r hyn a ddywedwch. Mae angen i'r Aelodau o amgylch y Siambr roi gwybod i ni am unrhyw dystiolaeth sydd ganddynt fel y gallwn ei rhannu. Er nad yw wedi’i ddatganoli, rydym yn gwneud cymaint ar y cyd—. Rwyf eisoes wedi sôn am y gweithgor llety i rai sy'n gadael carchar, gweithgor a gyd-gadeirir, ac mewn gwirionedd, mae'n dysgu o gynlluniau cynharach sydd wedi bod yn llwyddiannus. Fe fyddwch yn gefnogol iawn, rwy’n siŵr, i’r Papur Gwyn diweddar ar roi diwedd ar ddigartrefedd, a oedd yn cynnig gwelliannau pwrpasol i Ddeddf Tai (Cymru) 2014, gyda’r nod o wella canlyniadau i ddynion a menywod yn y ddalfa, oherwydd oni bai—. Dylid rhoi'r trefniadau hyn ar waith cyn rhyddhau, oherwydd yr heriau uniongyrchol sy’n wynebu carcharorion pan fyddant yn gadael carchar. Hefyd, fe welwyd peth gwaith da. Mae grŵp gorchwyl a gorffen bach yn edrych ar y llwybr cenedlaethol ar gyfer gwasanaethau digartrefedd i blant, pobl ifanc ac oedolion yn yr ystad ddiogel, a bu newidiadau yn y gwasanaeth prawf a gwasanaethau digartrefedd ers y cyhoeddiad hwnnw, ond mae hon yn dystiolaeth werthfawr iawn i ni ei hystyried yn y gweithgorau hyn a gweithredu, gan mai dyma sut y mae angen inni sicrhau nid yn unig fod pobl yn cael eu rhyddhau'n effeithiol, gan atal digartrefedd, ond bod yna lwybrau tuag at waith a llety, ac oddi wrth y system cyfiawnder troseddol.
I very much agree with the points that have been made by Lesley Griffiths and Laura Anne Jones this afternoon, and the response from you, Minister. At its heart, the devolution of the criminal justice system and policing is a matter of social justice and social cohesion, and it's supported by the Welsh Labour Party and by this Government, and I've always been very supportive of the approach that you've taken, Minister, in this. In this context, I was disappointed to hear in the Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee on Monday that the Government does not intend to provide any further updates to this Senedd on its Delivering Justice for Wales programme before the next election. I would ask you to reconsider this, and to keep this Senedd updated on the very good work that you and other Ministers are doing to campaign for and to deliver the devolution of criminal justice to Wales, so that we can get to grips with the subjects that have been raised by Lesley Griffiths and by Laura Anne Jones.
Rwy'n cytuno'n gryf â’r pwyntiau a wnaed gan Lesley Griffiths a Laura Anne Jones y prynhawn yma, a’r ymateb gennych chi, Weinidog. Wrth ei wraidd, mae datganoli’r system cyfiawnder troseddol a phlismona yn fater o gyfiawnder cymdeithasol a chydlyniant cymdeithasol, ac fe’i cefnogir gan Blaid Lafur Cymru a chan y Llywodraeth hon, ac rwyf bob amser wedi bod yn gefnogol iawn i’r dull yr ydych chi wedi’i fabwysiadu yn hyn o beth, Weinidog. Yn y cyd-destun hwn, roeddwn yn siomedig o glywed yn y Pwyllgor Deddfwriaeth, Cyfiawnder a’r Cyfansoddiad ddydd Llun nad yw’r Llywodraeth yn bwriadu rhoi unrhyw ddiweddariadau pellach i’r Senedd ar ei rhaglen Sicrhau Cyfiawnder i Gymru cyn yr etholiad nesaf. Hoffwn ofyn ichi ailystyried hyn, a rhoi’r wybodaeth ddiweddaraf i’r Senedd am y gwaith da iawn yr ydych chi a Gweinidogion eraill yn ei wneud yn ymgyrchu dros ddatganoli cyfiawnder troseddol i Gymru, fel y gallwn fynd i’r afael â’r pynciau a godwyd gan Lesley Griffiths a chan Laura Anne Jones.
Thank you very much, Alun Davies, and thank you for all the work that you've undertaken previously in ministerial roles as well. Just to say, this is the responsibility now of the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Secretary for Climate Change and Rural Affairs—constitutional affairs—so I'm sure you will be raising that with him directly. I will be sharing it with him. I'm very involved, though, working at a more operational level, in terms of exploring devolution for probation and youth justice, which indeed is all about what makes sense and what works in terms of social justice and good outcomes.
Diolch, Alun Davies, a diolch am yr holl waith a wnaethoch yn flaenorol mewn rolau gweinidogol hefyd. Cyfrifoldeb y Dirprwy Brif Weinidog ac Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet dros Newid Hinsawdd a Materion Gwledig yw hyn nawr—materion cyfansoddiadol—felly rwy'n siŵr y byddwch yn codi hynny gydag ef yn uniongyrchol. Byddaf yn ei rannu gydag ef. Rwy'n ymwneud yn agos â hyn, serch hynny, gan weithio ar lefel fwy gweithredol ar archwilio datganoli'r gwasanaeth prawf a chyfiawnder ieuenctid, sy'n ymwneud, i raddau helaeth, â'r hyn sy'n gwneud synnwyr a'r hyn sy'n gweithio o ran cyfiawnder cymdeithasol a chanlyniadau da.
4. Beth mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn ei wneud i gefnogi pensiynwyr ar draws Gorllewin De Cymru? OQ62427
4. What is the Welsh Government doing to support pensioners across South Wales West? OQ62427
Diolch, Tom Giffard. The Welsh Government is investing in supporting pensioners across Wales, including south-west Wales. These include investment in the regional integration fund, funding for the warm hubs, raising awareness of pension credits and other benefits, measures to end abuse, and the creation of age-friendly communities.
Diolch, Tom Giffard. Mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn buddsoddi mewn cefnogi pensiynwyr ledled Cymru, gan gynnwys de-orllewin Cymru. Mae'r rhain yn cynnwys buddsoddi yn y gronfa integreiddio ranbarthol, cyllid ar gyfer y canolfannau clyd, codi ymwybyddiaeth o gredydau pensiwn a budd-daliadau eraill, mesurau i ddod â cham-drin i ben, a chreu cymunedau sy'n ystyriol o oedran.
Cabinet Secretary, the UK Labour Government's decision to remove the winter fuel allowance from an estimated 500,000 pensioners in Wales, a policy that actively puts lives at risk, is possibly one of the most callous and cruel decisions a UK Government could have taken in office. Now, we know, Llywydd, that older people are disproportionately affected by fuel poverty, and that decision alone may be responsible for as many as 4,000 deaths in Wales. And now, as a result, we've seen poverty increasing in Wales, with one in five older people now living in relative income poverty. Indeed, Age Cymru's 2024 'What matters to you?' annual survey revealed some very devastating and heartbreaking responses from across South Wales West, with constituents across the region now citing concerns over the cost of living and its impact on their physical and mental health, as well as being concerned about having less money to live on since that decision was taken by the UK Government. So, Cabinet Secretary, as we mercifully leave the winter behind us this year, will you ensure that that was the last winter that our pensioners will go cold, and adopt our Welsh Conservative policy of a Welsh winter fuel payment to protect them?
Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet, efallai mai penderfyniad Llywodraeth Lafur y DU i gael gwared ar lwfans tanwydd y gaeaf i 500,000 amcangyfrifedig o bensiynwyr yng Nghymru, polisi sy'n rhoi bywydau mewn perygl, yw un o'r penderfyniadau mwyaf creulon a dideimlad y gallai Llywodraeth y DU fod wedi'i wneud mewn grym. Nawr, fe wyddom, Lywydd, fod tlodi tanwydd yn effeithio'n anghymesur ar bobl hŷn, ac y gallai'r penderfyniad hwnnw yn unig fod yn gyfrifol am gymaint â 4,000 o farwolaethau yng Nghymru. A nawr, o ganlyniad, rydym wedi gweld tlodi'n cynyddu yng Nghymru, gydag un o bob pump o bobl hŷn bellach yn byw mewn tlodi incwm cymharol. Yn wir, datgelodd arolwg blynyddol Age Cymru 2024 'Beth sy'n bwysig i chi?' ymatebion digalon a thorcalonnus iawn o bob rhan o Orllewin De Cymru, gydag etholwyr ledled y rhanbarth bellach yn nodi pryderon ynghylch costau byw a'i effaith ar eu hiechyd corfforol a meddyliol, yn ogystal â'u pryder fod ganddynt lai o arian i fyw arno ers i Lywodraeth y DU wneud y penderfyniad hwnnw. Felly, Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet, wrth inni adael y gaeaf ar ein holau am eleni, a wnewch chi sicrhau mai dyna oedd y gaeaf olaf y bydd ein pensiynwyr yn dioddef oerfel, a mabwysiadu polisi'r Ceidwadwyr Cymreig o daliad tanwydd y gaeaf Cymreig i'w diogelu?
Thank you for that supplementary question. Well, I'm sure you're aware, because I've said it more than once in this Chamber, as others have said, that the winter fuel payment is devolved to Northern Ireland, and will be to Scotland from 2025, but is not devolved to Wales—[Interruption.] So, we're not able to legislate for a—[Interruption.] Are you going to listen to my answer, please, Darren Millar?
Diolch am y cwestiwn atodol. Wel, rwy'n siŵr eich bod chi'n ymwybodol, oherwydd rwyf wedi ei ddweud fwy nag unwaith yn y Siambr hon, fel y mae eraill wedi gwneud, fod taliad tanwydd y gaeaf wedi'i ddatganoli i Ogledd Iwerddon, ac y bydd yn cael ei ddatganoli i'r Alban o 2025, ond nid yw wedi'i ddatganoli i Gymru—[Torri ar draws.] Felly, ni allwn ddeddfu ar—[Torri ar draws.] A ydych chi'n mynd i wrando ar fy ateb, os gwelwch yn dda, Darren Millar?
Darren Millar, please allow the Minister to answer.
Darren Millar, caniatewch i'r Gweinidog ymateb.
Diolch yn fawr, Llywydd. What is essential, and the serious point is, because you have asked me this question about how we are supporting pensioners in south-west Wales, and I reported back on the ways in which are supporting them, within our powers and responsibilities, and I do want to just focus on one area, because it's been raised by Members, about the role of the discretionary assistance fund. Because it is important that people have raised with me the issues of whether it's actually reaching older people, particularly. I can say that the discretionary assistance fund is there for all in financial crisis, and this you can share with your constituents. It's for people who can't meet their immediate basic needs and have no other means of support. It is important that over 800 registered discretionary assistance fund partners can make applications. So, we've met with Age Cymru, the local authorities, Citizens Advice, housing associations, and also, Tom, we met with the Older People's Commissioner for Wales recently to see how we can ensure that older people are aware of the DAF.
These are Welsh Government initiatives. These are our ways in which we are seeking to support our pensioners. And, of course, also, there are not just the discretionary assistance fund, but the fuel voucher scheme, the Warm Homes programme and the Fuel Bank Foundation. Really important in west Wales, there's also the heat fund scheme, and people who are off grid can get funding from the discretionary assistance fund as well. So, quite apart from our strategy, 'Age friendly Wales: our strategy for an ageing society', there's the money we're putting in to local authorities, the Pembrokeshire keeping well sessions, Swansea engaging with older people, and all of the promoting of healthy ageing and connecting older people with advice services. This is what we're doing in Wales to support pensioners in south-west Wales.
Diolch, Lywydd. Yr hyn sy'n hanfodol, a'r pwynt difrifol yw, oherwydd fe ofynnoch chi gwestiwn i mi ynglŷn â sut y cefnogwn bensiynwyr yn ne-orllewin Cymru, ac fe wneuthum adrodd yn ôl ar y ffyrdd y'u cefnogwn, o fewn ein pwerau a'n cyfrifoldebau, ac rwyf am ganolbwyntio ar un maes yn unig, gan ei fod wedi'i godi gan Aelodau, am rôl y gronfa cymorth dewisol. Oherwydd mae'n bwysig fod pobl wedi gofyn i mi a yw'n cyrraedd pobl hŷn, yn arbennig. Gallaf ddweud bod y gronfa cymorth dewisol yno i bawb mewn argyfwng ariannol, a gallwch rannu hyn gyda'ch etholwyr. Mae ar gyfer pobl na allant ddiwallu eu hanghenion sylfaenol uniongyrchol ac nad oes ganddynt unrhyw ffordd arall o gael cymorth. Mae'n bwysig fod dros 800 o bartneriaid cofrestredig y gronfa cymorth dewisol yn gallu gwneud ceisiadau. Felly, rydym wedi cyfarfod ag Age Cymru, yr awdurdodau lleol, Cyngor ar Bopeth, cymdeithasau tai, a hefyd, Tom, fe wnaethom gyfarfod â Chomisiynydd Pobl Hŷn Cymru yn ddiweddar i weld sut y gallwn sicrhau bod pobl hŷn yn ymwybodol o'r gronfa cymorth dewisol.
Mentrau Llywodraeth Cymru yw'r rhain. Dyma'r ffyrdd yr awn ati i geisio cefnogi ein pensiynwyr. Ac nid yn unig y gronfa cymorth dewisol wrth gwrs, ond y cynllun talebau tanwydd, y rhaglen Cartrefi Clyd a'r Sefydliad Banc Tanwydd. Yn bwysig iawn yng ngorllewin Cymru, mae cynllun y gronfa gwres hefyd, a gall pobl sydd oddi ar y grid gael arian o'r gronfa cymorth dewisol. Felly, ar wahân i'n strategaeth, 'Cymru o blaid pobl hŷn: ein strategaeth ar gyfer cymdeithas sy'n heneiddio', rydym yn rhoi arian i awdurdodau lleol, sesiynau cadw'n iach sir Benfro, Abertawe'n ymgysylltu â phobl hŷn, a hyrwyddo heneiddio'n iach a chysylltu pobl hŷn â gwasanaethau cynghori. Dyma beth a wnawn yng Nghymru i gefnogi pensiynwyr yn ne-orllewin Cymru.
We're already out of time on this question session, and we're only on question 4, so if we can inject some pace, and brevity even, into the questions and answers, that would be appropriated, to try and get as many questions asked and answered.
Mae ein hamser eisoes ar ben ar gyfer y sesiwn gwestiynau hon, a dim ond ar gwestiwn 4 ydym ni, felly os gallwn gyflymu rhywfaint, a bod yn gryno hyd yn oed, yn y cwestiynau a'r atebion, byddai hynny'n briodol, i geisio cael cymaint ag y gallwn o gwestiynau wedi'u gofyn a'u hateb.
Cwestiwn 5, Carolyn Thomas.
Question 5, Carolyn Thomas.
5. Pa drafodaethau y mae'r Ysgrifennydd Cabinet wedi'u cael gydag Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet dros Drafnidiaeth a Gogledd Cymru ynghylch y broses o wneud cais am fathodynnau glas? OQ62435
5. What discussions has the Cabinet Secretary had with the Cabinet Secretary for Transport and North Wales regarding the blue badge application process? OQ62435
Thank you, Carolyn Thomas. I'm having ongoing discussions with the Cabinet Secretary for Transport and North Wales on this topic, and met with himself and yourself, Carolyn, yesterday. We are committed to ensuring that disabled people with the greatest need can benefit from parking concessions and that the process of obtaining a badge is as fair and as efficient as possible.
Diolch, Carolyn Thomas. Rwy'n cael trafodaethau parhaus gydag Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet dros Drafnidiaeth a Gogledd Cymru ar y pwnc hwn, ac wedi cyfarfod ag ef ei hun a chithau, Carolyn, ddoe. Rydym wedi ymrwymo i sicrhau y gall pobl anabl sydd â'r angen mwyaf elwa o gonsesiynau parcio a bod y broses o gael bathodyn mor deg ac effeithlon â phosibl.
Thank you for your answer. People living with lifelong and degenerative conditions, including cognitive, having to reapply with a full application every three years, uploading all their medical information, their photos, their doctors' letters and prescriptions is time consuming, difficult and traumatic. The Welsh Government's guidelines say that local authorities can mark a customer account with 'not for reassessment'. It would mean the badge could be reissued without submitting all that medical information again—just a photo, proof of ID and address. However, we have been told that there is an omission of the term 'not for reassessment' and no ability to add it to the form. It needs to be there as well as on guidance and consumer information. Help is inconsistent and the guidance needs to be clearer for those delivering the blue badges. Cabinet Secretary, this is a social justice issue. It's been raised many times in the Senedd by many Members and in the Chamber via the Petitions Committee. Would you help to resolve it, involving STAND North Wales CIC representatives, who submitted the petition, and are important stakeholders, along with the Welsh Local Government Association and Welsh Government officials? Thank you.
Diolch am eich ateb. I bobl sy'n byw gyda chyflyrau gydol oes a dirywiol, gan gynnwys cyflyrau gwybyddol, mae gorfod ailymgeisio gyda chais llawn bob tair blynedd, a lanlwytho eu holl wybodaeth feddygol, eu lluniau, llythyrau a phresgripsiynau eu meddygon yn cymryd llawer o amser, yn anodd ac yn drawmatig. Mae canllawiau Llywodraeth Cymru yn dweud y gall awdurdodau lleol nodi 'ddim i'w ailasesu' ar gyfrif cwsmer. Byddai'n golygu y gellid ailgyflwyno'r bathodyn heb gyflwyno'r holl wybodaeth feddygol eto—dim ond llun, prawf adnabod a chyfeiriad. Fodd bynnag, dywedwyd wrthym fod y term 'ddim i'w ailasesu' yn cael ei hepgor ac nad oes gallu i'w ychwanegu at y ffurflen. Mae angen iddo fod yno yn ogystal ag ar arweiniad a gwybodaeth i ddefnyddwyr. Mae cymorth yn anghyson ac mae angen i'r canllawiau fod yn gliriach i'r rhai sy'n darparu'r bathodynnau glas. Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet, mater cyfiawnder cymdeithasol yw hwn. Mae wedi cael ei godi sawl gwaith yn y Senedd gan lawer o Aelodau ac yn y Siambr drwy'r Pwyllgor Deisebau. A wnewch chi helpu i'w ddatrys, gan gynnwys cynrychiolwyr cwmni buddiannau cymunedol STAND Gogledd Cymru, a gyflwynodd y ddeiseb, ac sy'n rhanddeiliaid pwysig, ynghyd â Chymdeithas Llywodraeth Leol Cymru a swyddogion Llywodraeth Cymru? Diolch.
Thank you very much, Carolyn Thomas, and as we learnt yesterday from our very useful meeting with the Cabinet Secretary for Transport and North Wales, there is going to be a workshop with local authorities held very shortly. We suggested, or I certainly suggested, that that could include—and I think you were supportive of this—some disabled people's organisations as well. So, all of the points that you've made in terms of the need to ensure that we cut down on the barriers of bureaucracy to accessing blue badges, I'm sure, will be raised at that workshop, and I'm sure this will continue to be something that we will raise in the Senedd.
Diolch, Carolyn Thomas, ac fel y gwnaethom ddysgu ddoe o'n cyfarfod defnyddiol iawn gydag Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet dros Drafnidiaeth a Gogledd Cymru, bydd gweithdy'n cael ei gynnal gydag awdurdodau lleol yn fuan iawn. Fe wnaethom awgrymu, neu fe awgrymais i yn sicr, y gallai hwnnw gynnwys—ac rwy'n meddwl eich bod chi wedi cefnogi hyn—mudiadau pobl anabl hefyd. Felly, rwy'n siŵr y bydd yr holl bwyntiau a wnaethoch am yr angen i sicrhau ein bod ni'n lleihau rhwystrau biwrocratiaeth i gael mynediad at fathodynnau glas yn cael eu codi yn y gweithdy hwnnw, ac rwy'n siŵr y bydd hyn yn parhau i fod yn rhywbeth y byddwn yn ei godi yn y Senedd.
6. A wnaiff yr Ysgrifennydd Cabinet roi diweddariad ar weithdrefnau penodiadau cyhoeddus Llywodraeth Cymru? OQ62437
6. Will the Cabinet Secretary provide an update on the Welsh Government's public appointments procedures? OQ62437
Diolch yn fawr am eich cwestiwn.
Thank you very much for your question.
In line with the governance code on public appointments, Welsh Ministers make appointments with safeguards to uphold transparency and public confidence, while encouraging diverse and representative public bodies. We're committed to improving transparency, widening access, strengthening diversity and ensuring a rigorous but inclusive selection process.
Yn unol â'r cod llywodraethu ar benodiadau cyhoeddus, mae Gweinidogion Cymru yn gwneud penodiadau gyda mesurau diogelu i gynnal tryloywder a hyder y cyhoedd, gan annog cyrff cyhoeddus amrywiol a chynrychioliadol. Rydym wedi ymrwymo i wella tryloywder, ehangu mynediad, cryfhau amrywiaeth a sicrhau proses ddethol drwyadl ond cynhwysol.
Diolch, Cabinet Secretary. Ensuring diversity in public appointments in Wales is crucial in helping to shape an inclusive, fair and representative Wales. Encouraging more women and people from all backgrounds to apply for these appointments is essential if this is to be achieved. We need a diverse mix of voices influencing key decisions to drive that change. Progress is being made, but barriers still remain. I was therefore really pleased to hear the recent announcement from the Welsh Government that they're investing £185,000 of funding for the Equal Power Equal Voice mentoring programme over three years, and that of course is co-funded with the National Lottery community fund. Cabinet Secretary, do you agree with me that programmes like these are crucial in helping to increase the diversity of representation in public and political life in Wales?
Diolch, Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet. Mae sicrhau amrywiaeth mewn penodiadau cyhoeddus yng Nghymru yn hanfodol er mwyn helpu i lunio Cymru gynhwysol, deg a chynrychioliadol. Mae annog mwy o fenywod a phobl o bob cefndir i wneud cais am y penodiadau hyn yn hanfodol os bwriedir cyflawni hyn. Mae angen cymysgedd amrywiol o leisiau arnom sy'n dylanwadu ar benderfyniadau allweddol i ysgogi newid. Mae cynnydd yn cael ei wneud, ond mae rhwystrau'n parhau. Felly, roeddwn yn falch iawn o glywed y cyhoeddiad diweddar gan Lywodraeth Cymru eu bod yn buddsoddi £185,000 o gyllid ar gyfer rhaglen fentora Pŵer Cyfartal Llais Cyfartal dros dair blynedd, ac mae honno wrth gwrs yn cael ei chyd-ariannu gyda chronfa gymunedol y Loteri Genedlaethol. Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet, a ydych chi'n cytuno â mi fod rhaglenni fel hyn yn hanfodol i helpu i gynyddu amrywiaeth cynrychiolaeth mewn bywyd cyhoeddus a gwleidyddol yng Nghymru?
Thank you very much. This is such an important question, and we're very proud to support the Equal Power Equal Voice programme for the next three years. I mean, just to remind colleagues about this, it does help individuals gain skills and knowledge, to take on public and political roles, and is a very great success in terms of mentees becoming school governors, councillors, MPs and public board members as well, and it is for under-represented groups.
But I also wanted to report back to Members that we are investigating how we can produce a more robust diversity data monitoring system, to enable me to report regularly on the diversity of our public appointments. I mean, actually, now, women make up 60 per cent of appointees from the latest findings, which is very encouraging, but where they sit in those public appointments and at what level is important. We have got improvement in terms of ethnicity. Black, Asian and minority ethnic applicants comprise 22.3 per cent of the applicant pool and 20 per cent of appointees. But we have got to have a greater impact on encouraging disabled applicants, as 21.1 per cent of the Welsh population has reported as disabled, but we still are under-represented in appointments at 10.9 per cent. 'Reflecting Wales in Running Wales' is the strategy we're working on with public appointments.
Diolch. Mae hwn yn gwestiwn mor bwysig, ac rydym yn falch iawn o gefnogi'r rhaglen Pŵer Cyfartal Llais Cyfartal am y tair blynedd nesaf. Hynny yw, i atgoffa cyd-Aelodau yn ei chylch, mae'n helpu unigolion i ennill sgiliau a gwybodaeth, i ymgymryd â rolau cyhoeddus a gwleidyddol, ac mae'n llwyddiant mawr iawn yn yr ystyr fod y rhai sy'n cael eu mentora yn dod yn llywodraethwyr ysgol, cynghorwyr, ASau ac aelodau o fyrddau cyhoeddus hefyd, ac mae yno ar gyfer grwpiau heb gynrychiolaeth ddigonol.
Ond roeddwn hefyd eisiau adrodd yn ôl i'r Aelodau ein bod yn ymchwilio i weld sut y gallwn gynhyrchu system monitro data amrywiaeth fwy cadarn, er mwyn fy ngalluogi i adrodd yn rheolaidd am amrywiaeth ein penodiadau cyhoeddus. Erbyn hyn, menywod yw 60 y cant o'r rhai a benodir o'r canfyddiadau diweddaraf, sy'n galonogol iawn, ond mae lle maent yn y penodiadau cyhoeddus hynny ac ar ba lefel yn bwysig. Rydym wedi gwella o ran ethnigrwydd. Ymgeiswyr du, Asiaidd a lleiafrifol ethnig yw 22.3 y cant o'r gronfa o ymgeiswyr ac 20 y cant o'r rhai a benodir. Ond mae'n rhaid inni gael mwy o effaith ar annog ymgeiswyr anabl, gan fod 21.1 y cant o boblogaeth Cymru wedi eu nodi yn bobl anabl, ond maent yn dal i fod heb gynrychiolaeth ddigonol mewn penodiadau ar 10.9 y cant. 'Adlewyrchu Cymru wrth Redeg Cymru' yw'r strategaeth y gweithiwn arni gyda phenodiadau cyhoeddus.
7. A wnaiff yr Ysgrifennydd Cabinet ddatganiad am hygyrchedd llochesi yng ngogledd Cymru ar gyfer menywod sy'n dioddef ymosodiad rhywiol ac sy'n gwella o ddefnyddio sylweddau? OQ62439
7. Will the Cabinet Secretary make a statement on accessibility of refuges in north Wales for women who are victims of sexual assault and recovering from substance use? OQ62439
Thank you very much for that question, Janet Finch-Saunders. Women’s refuges are available across north Wales for women fleeing immediate violence or the threat of violence and harm. The complex needs of women, such as mental health or substance misuse, are always considered.
Diolch am y cwestiwn, Janet Finch-Saunders. Mae llochesi menywod ar gael ar draws gogledd Cymru ar gyfer menywod sy'n ffoi rhag trais uniongyrchol neu'r bygythiad o drais a niwed. Mae anghenion cymhleth menywod, fel iechyd meddwl neu gamddefnyddio sylweddau, bob amser yn cael eu hystyried.
Thank you. Responding to my written question as to why there are no women's refuges in north Wales that can house women who are victims of both sexual assault, exploitation and drug addiction, you stated, and I quote, that
'A number of refuges across Wales, including in north Wales, can and do accommodate individuals with these experiences.'
However, I followed this up, that response, by requesting the name of such a refuge, but was told by the Welsh Government, via FOI, and I quote,
'Following a search of our paper and electronic records, I have established that the information you require is not held by the Welsh Government.'
So, Cabinet Secretary, could you clarify how you could say on 22 January that there are these refuges—and you've just said it now—when in fact the Welsh Government states that you don't hold such information?
Diolch. Wrth ymateb i fy nghwestiwn ysgrifenedig ynghylch pam nad oes llochesi menywod yng ngogledd Cymru a all gartrefu menywod sydd wedi dioddef ymosodiad rhywiol, camfanteisio a dibyniaeth ar gyffuriau, fe ddywedoch chi hyn,
'Fe all, ac y mae nifer o lochesi ledled Cymru, gan gynnwys yng ngogledd Cymru, yn darparu ar gyfer unigolion sydd â'r profiadau hyn.'
Fodd bynnag, euthum ar drywydd hyn, yr ymateb hwnnw, trwy ofyn am enw lloches o'r fath, ond dywedwyd wrthyf gan Lywodraeth Cymru, trwy gais rhyddid gwybodaeth,
'Yn dilyn chwiliad o'n cofnodion papur a'n cofnodion electronig, sefydlais nad yw'r wybodaeth y gofynnoch chi amdani yn cael ei chadw gan Lywodraeth Cymru.'
Felly, Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet, a allech chi egluro sut y gallech chi ddweud ar 22 Ionawr fod yna lochesi ar gael—ac rydych chi newydd ei ddweud nawr—pan fo Llywodraeth Cymru yn dweud nad ydych chi'n cadw gwybodaeth o'r fath?
Well, I think it might be useful if we had a follow-up meeting about this, Janet Finch-Saunders, because it's always unfortunate when something goes to an FOI and we can't give you the full feedback that we would like to. We want to understand what the issues are because there are at least five providers of refuge space in north Wales, and you will know many of them, providing multiple sites and units. And, of course, we're allocating funding. Each refuge has its own eligibility criteria, and that depends on access to professional support at any given time. But we do want to make sure that women or people, survivors, can access the sort of support you're talking about. But I would very much like, if you would be agreeable, Janet, to have a meeting about this, so that we can unpick where there may be issues that we can clarify.
Wel, rwy'n credu y gallai fod yn ddefnyddiol inni gael cyfarfod dilynol am hyn, Janet Finch-Saunders, oherwydd mae bob amser yn anffodus pan fydd rhywbeth yn mynd i gais rhyddid gwybodaeth ac na allwn roi'r adborth llawn yr hoffem ei roi i chi. Rydym am ddeall beth yw'r problemau oherwydd mae yna o leiaf bum darparwr lloches y byddwch yn gwybod am sawl un ohonynt yng ngogledd Cymru sy'n darparu nifer o safleoedd ac unedau. Ac wrth gwrs, rydym yn dyrannu cyllid. Mae gan bob lloches ei feini prawf cymhwysedd ei hun, ac mae hynny'n dibynnu ar fynediad at gymorth proffesiynol ar unrhyw adeg benodol. Ond rydym am sicrhau bod menywod neu bobl, goroeswyr, yn gallu cael y math o gefnogaeth y soniwch amdani. Ond os ydych chi'n cytuno, Janet, hoffwn yn fawr gael cyfarfod am hyn, i ni weld lle gallai fod materion y gallwn roi eglurhad yn eu cylch.
Yn olaf, cwestiwn 8, Adam Price.
Finally, question 8, Adam Price.
8. Pa drafodaethau y mae'r Ysgrifennydd Cabinet wedi'u cael gyda Llywodraeth y DU ynghylch sefydlu asiantaeth atal troseddau newydd i wella diogelwch cymunedol? OQ62445
8. What discussions has the Cabinet Secretary had with the UK Government about establishing a new crime prevention agency to enhance community safety? OQ62445
Diolch yn fawr, Adam Price. Rydyn ni’n gweithio'n agos gyda phartneriaid yn yr heddlu ac yn uned atal trais Cymru i atal troseddu ac i ddiogelu ein cymunedau. Rydyn ni’n trafod y rhaglen Strydoedd Mwy Diogel gyda Llywodraeth y Deyrnas Unedig.
Thank you very much, Adam Price. We work closely with policing partners and the Wales violence prevention unit to prevent crime and to protect our communities, and we are engaging with the UK Government on their Safer Streets mission.
The Police Foundation has recommended establishing a dedicated crime prevention agency to centralise expertise and strategically co-ordinate crime reduction initiatives across different Government departments. The international experience, particularly from Nordic countries, such as Sweden and Denmark, has demonstrated the effectiveness of such agencies in integrating preventative efforts across justice, health, education and local government, helping to reduce crime rates and enhance public confidence. So, does the Cabinet Secretary agree that adopting this successful international model in Wales could similarly deliver more cohesive, more proactive, more evidence-based crime prevention measures? And, if so, will the Welsh Government commit to undertaking a comprehensive feasibility review to explore establishing a comparable agency here in Wales?
Mae Sefydliad yr Heddlu wedi argymell sefydlu asiantaeth atal troseddau bwrpasol i ganoli arbenigedd a chydlynu mentrau lleihau troseddau yn strategol ar draws gwahanol adrannau'r Llywodraeth. Mae'r profiad rhyngwladol, yn enwedig o wledydd Nordig, fel Sweden a Denmarc, wedi dangos effeithiolrwydd asiantaethau o'r fath yn integreiddio ymdrechion ataliol ar draws cyfiawnder, iechyd, addysg a llywodraeth leol, gan helpu i leihau cyfraddau troseddu a gwella hyder y cyhoedd. Felly, a yw Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet yn cytuno y gallai mabwysiadu'r model rhyngwladol llwyddiannus hwn yng Nghymru yn yr un modd ddarparu mesurau atal troseddau mwy cydlynol, mwy rhagweithiol, mwy seiliedig ar dystiolaeth? Ac os felly, a wnaiff Llywodraeth Cymru ymrwymo i gynnal adolygiad dichonoldeb cynhwysfawr i archwilio sefydlu asiantaeth debyg yma yng Nghymru?
Diolch yn fawr, Adam Price. I'm shortly meeting with the Police Federation of England and Wales, so I'll get more information about this. Of course, we're very interested in international models and learning from those. I will just say, Llywydd, with your forbearance, that I’ve mentioned the Wales violence prevention unit, which is a partnership between the south Wales police and crime commissioner, Public Health Wales and South Wales Police, which is taking very much a public health approach to preventing violence, ensuring an evidence-based approach to tackling violence, which is more of the international model. So, I would want to meet with the Police Federation of England and Wales, but also get that evidence to see where we are, given, of course, that it is not devolved, but it also helps build our understanding as we move towards delivering in partnership with police and moving towards, ultimately, we hope, the devolution of policing in Wales.
Diolch yn fawr, Adam Price. Cyn bo hir, rwy'n cyfarfod â Ffederasiwn Heddlu Cymru a Lloegr, felly fe gaf fwy o wybodaeth am hyn. Wrth gwrs, mae gennym ddiddordeb mawr mewn modelau rhyngwladol a dysgu gan y rheini. Lywydd, gyda'ch amynedd, fe ddywedaf fy mod wedi sôn am uned atal trais Cymru, sy'n bartneriaeth rhwng comisiynydd heddlu a throseddu de Cymru, Iechyd Cyhoeddus Cymru a Heddlu De Cymru, sy'n gweithredu dull iechyd y cyhoedd o atal trais, gan sicrhau dull sy'n seiliedig ar dystiolaeth o fynd i'r afael â thrais, sy'n fwy tebyg i'r model rhyngwladol. Felly, hoffwn gyfarfod â Ffederasiwn Heddlu Cymru a Lloegr, a chael y dystiolaeth i weld lle rydym arni, o ystyried nad yw wedi'i ddatganoli, ond mae hefyd yn helpu i feithrin ein dealltwriaeth wrth inni symud tuag at gyflawni mewn partneriaeth â'r heddlu a symud tuag at ddatganoli plismona yng Nghymru yn y pen draw, gobeithio.
Diolch yn fawr i'r Ysgrifennydd Cabinet.
I thank the Cabinet Secretary.
Does dim cwestiynau i Gomisiwn y Senedd yr wythnos yma.
There are no questions to the Senedd Commission this week.
Does dim cwestiynau amserol.
There are no topical questions.
Eitem 5 sydd nesaf, y datganiadau 90 eiliad. Mae'r datganiad cyntaf gan Cefin Campbell.
Item 5 is next, the 90-second statements. The first statement is from Cefin Campbell.
Diolch yn fawr iawn, Llywydd. I will take this opportunity to congratulate two Oscar winners from my Mid and West Wales Senedd region whose success was recognised during the Oscars ceremony in Hollywood just over a week ago. First of all, Laurie Crawley, raised in Llansantffraid-ym-Mechain in Powys, who won the best cinematography award for the film The Brutalist. It was also good to hear about his intention to visit his old school, Ysgol Llanfyllin, to speak to pupils in their morning assembly in the near future. Another winner was Rhys Salcombe, from Aberystwyth originally, who was one of four who shared the best visual effects award for his work on the film Dune: Part Two. Rhys has previously won other awards for his work on major films such as Blade Runner 2049 and Star Trek Beyond. I should also mention a third Welsh Oscar nominee, Trevor Matthews from Newport—not Newport Pembs in my region, but the other Newport—who missed out on the best picture award for his work on the film The Brutalist. Congratulations to Laurie and Rhys for showcasing the best of Mid and West Wales’s talent on the biggest stage of all. Good luck to both, and of course to Trevor, in the future.
Diolch yn fawr iawn, Lywydd. Fe achubaf ar y cyfle hwn i longyfarch dau enillydd Oscar o ranbarth Senedd Canolbarth a Gorllewin Cymru y cafodd eu llwyddiant ei gydnabod yn ystod seremoni'r Oscars yn Hollywood ychydig dros wythnos yn ôl. Yn gyntaf oll, Laurie Crawley, a fagwyd yn Llansantffraid-ym-Mechain ym Mhowys, a enillodd y wobr sinematograffi gorau am y ffilm The Brutalist. Da hefyd oedd clywed am ei fwriad i ymweld â'i hen ysgol, Ysgol Llanfyllin, i siarad â disgyblion yn eu gwasanaeth boreol yn y dyfodol agos. Enillydd arall oedd Rhys Salcombe, o Aberystwyth yn wreiddiol, a oedd yn un o bedwar a rannodd y wobr effeithiau gweledol gorau am ei waith ar y ffilm Dune: Part Two. Mae Rhys eisoes wedi ennill gwobrau eraill am ei waith ar ffilmiau mawr fel Blade Runner 2049 a Star Trek Beyond. Dylwn sôn hefyd am drydydd enwebai Oscar o Gymru, Trevor Matthews o Gasnewydd a enwebwyd ar gyfer y wobr am y ffilm orau am ei waith ar y ffilm The Brutalist. Llongyfarchiadau i Laurie a Rhys am arddangos y gorau o dalent Canolbarth a Gorllewin Cymru ar y llwyfan mwyaf oll. Pob lwc i'r ddau, ac i Trevor, wrth gwrs, yn y dyfodol.
Llongyfarchiadau mawr i chi i gyd.
Congratulations to you all.
Bydd y Senedd yn uno, dwi'n gwybod, i longyfarch Lauren Price ar ei buddugoliaeth yr wythnos diwethaf, y diweddaraf yn unig o'r teitlau di-ri mae'r fenyw ifanc ysbrydoledig hon wedi eu hennill ar lwyfan y byd.
The Senedd will, I know, be united in congratulating Lauren Price on her victory last week, just the latest in a host of titles won by this inspiring young woman on the world stage.
Lauren Price is no stranger to success. Before taking up boxing professionally, she won the gold medal at the 2020 Olympics, and gold representing Wales at the 2018 Commonwealth Games. Even before that, Lauren played football for Cardiff City women and represented Wales at under 19 and senior levels. But her win at the Royal Albert Hall has catapulted her to even greater heights. ‘Unstoppable’ truly seems a fitting title for this young woman from Ystrad Mynach. And what a joy it was to see her enter the ring as Dafydd Iwan’s ‘Yma o Hyd’ was playing, the red dragon resplendent behind her. Price is a woman whose pride for her nation is clear in everything she does, and her community in Ystrad Mynach is so proud of her. What a tribute her success is to her own resilience, her determination, and the support shown to her by her beloved grandparents and friends. This woman with world titles who’s never forgotten her roots. So, from one Ystrad girl to another: llongyfarchiadau, Lauren, you’ve made so many people so proud.
Nid yw llwyddiant yn beth dieithr i Lauren Price. Cyn dechrau bocsio'n broffesiynol, enillodd y fedal aur yng Ngemau Olympaidd 2020, ac aur yn cynrychioli Cymru yng Ngemau'r Gymanwlad 2018. Hyd yn oed cyn hynny, arferai Lauren chwarae pêl-droed i fenywod Dinas Caerdydd a chynrychiolodd Gymru o dan 19 ac ar y lefel uwch. Ond mae ei buddugoliaeth yn y Royal Albert Hall wedi ei saethu'n uwch byth. Mae 'Unstoppable' i'w weld yn deitl mor addas i'r fenyw ifanc hon o Ystrad Mynach. A dyna lawenydd oedd ei gweld yn mynd i mewn i'r cylch wrth i 'Yma o Hyd' Dafydd Iwan chwarae, a'r ddraig goch yn ogoneddus y tu ôl iddi. Mae Price yn fenyw y mae ei balchder dros ei chenedl yn glir ym mhopeth a wna, ac mae ei chymuned yn Ystrad Mynach mor falch ohoni. Am deyrnged yw ei llwyddiant i'w gwytnwch ei hun, ei phenderfyniad, a'r gefnogaeth a ddangoswyd iddi gan ei thad-cu a'i mam-gu a'i ffrindiau annwyl. Y fenyw hon â theitlau byd nad yw erioed wedi anghofio ei gwreiddiau. Felly, gan un o ferched Ystrad i un arall: llongyfarchiadau, Lauren, mae cymaint o bobl mor falch ohonoch.
I think we should all start a chant of ‘Pricey, Pricey’ around the Chamber. I can lead you; I was there. I witnessed her victory. Da iawn, bawb.
Rwy'n credu y dylem i gyd ddechrau siant o 'Pricey, Pricey' o gwmpas y Siambr. Gallaf eich arwain; roeddwn i yno. Fe welais ei buddugoliaeth. Da iawn, bawb.
Eitem 6, dadl ar adroddiad y Pwyllgor Safonau Ymddygiad yw hwn, 'Atebolrwydd Aelodau Unigol: Adalw'. Galwaf ar Gadeirydd y pwyllgor i wneud y cynnig—Hannah Blythyn.
Item 6, the debate on the Standards of Conduct Committee report, 'Individual Member Accountability: Recall'. I call on the Chair of the committee to move the motion—Hannah Blythyn.
Diolch, Llywydd. Mae’n bleser gen i ddechrau'r ddadl hon ar adroddiad pwysig iawn gan y Pwyllgor Safonau Ymddygiad.
Thank you, Llywydd. It’s a pleasure to open this debate on a very important report produced by the Standards of Conduct Committee.
Working to ensure that the Senedd has the processes in place to maintain both individual and institutional integrity is a cornerstone of our devolved democracy and central to the work of the Standards of Conduct Committee. The recall report is part of an ongoing package of reform that is aimed at building trust and transparency in our processes, in our politicians and in our politics. As a committee, we want to see increased confidence in the political system, and proper processes are fundamental to this. Our recommendation around the introduction of a system of recall is a significant step forward in this journey.
Mae gweithio i sicrhau bod gan y Senedd brosesau ar waith i gynnal uniondeb unigol a sefydliadol yn gonglfaen i'n democratiaeth ddatganoledig ac yn ganolog i waith y Pwyllgor Safonau Ymddygiad. Mae'r adroddiad adalw yn rhan o becyn o ddiwygiadau parhaus sydd â'r nod o adeiladu ymddiriedaeth a thryloywder yn ein prosesau, ein gwleidyddion a'n gwleidyddiaeth. Fel pwyllgor, rydym am weld mwy o hyder yn y system wleidyddol, ac mae prosesau priodol yn hanfodol i hyn. Mae ein hargymhelliad ynghylch cyflwyno system adalw yn gam sylweddol ymlaen ar y daith hon.
I want to be clear that this forms part of the work that the committee has committed to on considering the entire standards framework in this place and to strengthen the systems of powers here in the Senedd to better empower people to come forward with concerns about conduct and serious and unacceptable issues like sexual harassment. To do this, the committee believes it's important to be able to have sufficient powers to deter and deal with serious misconduct, and the sanction of recall is an important factor in that. The introduction of a system of recall ensures that there is clarity and understanding around the measures that may be used to hold Members to account.
We have made nine recommendations aimed at introducing the system in time for the seventh Senedd, so that all Members elected to that Senedd will be held to a consistent standard from the start. We are pleased that the Government has accepted all of our recommendations either fully or in principle. It is both welcome and warranted that we are able to work together to put in place such an important piece of legislation in Wales.
As a first step, the committee looked at the model adopted in Westminster around recall, which has been well received and effectively used in allowing the public to hold to account those Members who have acted in ways that fell short of the standards expected of them. We concluded, however, that, rather than duplicating this system, what was needed was a model that fitted Wales and the electoral system that will be in place for and following the 2026 Senedd elections.
The committee has taken a pragmatic and practical approach to this work, and held simplicity and understandability as the two most important principles when designing the system. A one-stage process, a single ballot that asks whether a Member should be removed and replaced with the next person on the list or retain their position, seemed to us the best way to meet those principles. We also recommended that the Government works with the Electoral Commission to develop a voting paper to present the information in a clear and easy-to-understand manner, and that it works with the electoral community to ensure information relating to recall is clear for voters. These recommendations have all been accepted by the Welsh Government.
As well as a one-stage process, we concluded that a one-day process, akin to a by-election, with postal and proxy voting available, was the most simple and straightforward approach. Alongside this, we are pleased that the Government has accepted the recommendation to consult with electoral administrators and other interested stakeholders on the practical implications of holding the vote on a single day across multiple polling places in a constituency.
Moving now to those recommendations that were accepted in principle, as a committee, we did not feel 'recall' to be a meaningful nor an accurate name for the process that we were recommending. While we recognise there's a level of popular understanding for the term amongst the public, it does not align with the process recommended and may be confusing in light of the difference between Wales and Westminster. We wanted to ensure that the name better and more accurately described the process and recommended the phrase 'remove and replace ballot'. However, we accept this may not be best terminology either, but it serves as a starting point for discussions about what it is called. We look forward to working with the Government as it gives further consideration to this matter.
In order to operate an effective and fair standards system, there's a requirement for flexibility in applying sanctions and a range of options available. As a committee, we believe this is best achieved by not including specific triggers for recall in primary legislation. There's been much criticism levelled at the Senedd about it being unable to react with sufficient speed, and, as such, we considered it prudent to allow the Senedd to be able to decide what may trigger a recall. We believe this will also help futureproof the process, as it would not require amendments to primary legislation. For the ease of simplicity of understanding, we recommended all triggers for recall to be set out in the guidelines, but accept that the Government will want to give this more consideration and that some matters may be included in legislation.
We further recommended that recall should be a stand-alone sanction that is available for the committee with responsibility for matters under Standing Order 22 to utilise. Much of the evidence we received suggested that the 10-day sitting provision in place in Westminster is too low, and it seemed to us like a stark cut-off point. This forms part of the reasoning for the sanctions sitting with the responsible committee, allowing it to take precedent and other mitigating factors into consideration. We welcome the Government's intention to consider this recommendation in more detail, as well as its undertaking to explore the exact form that guidance for the application of recall should take. The committee is supportive of all additional detailed work on these areas, and would not expect anything less of the Government when taking forward such an important piece of legislation.
Llywydd, I'd like to take this opportunity to thank the current committee members and those who started this work—including the previous Chair, Vikki Howells, and former members Mark Drakeford and Natasha Asghar—for their hard work in this area. I'd also, of course, like to thank everyone who took the time to give evidence to the inquiry. We took a significant amount of complex evidence over a short period of time, and this has been invaluable in helping our thinking on this matter and allowing us to make the considered and informed recommendations set out today.
To conclude, as Chair of the committee, I hope Members will agree that these proposals suggest a workable and practical approach to increasing accountability within the political context that we are and will be operating in.
Rwyf am fod yn glir fod hyn yn rhan o'r gwaith y mae'r pwyllgor wedi ymrwymo iddo ar ystyried y fframwaith safonau cyfan yn y lle hwn ac i gryfhau'r systemau pŵer yma yn y Senedd i rymuso pobl yn well i gyflwyno pryderon am ymddygiad a materion difrifol ac annerbyniol fel aflonyddu rhywiol. I wneud hyn, mae'r pwyllgor yn credu ei bod yn bwysig gallu cael pwerau digonol i atal ac ymdrin â chamymddwyn difrifol, ac mae'r sancsiwn adalw yn ffactor pwysig yn hynny. Mae cyflwyno system adalw yn sicrhau bod eglurder a dealltwriaeth ynghylch y mesurau y gellir eu defnyddio i ddwyn Aelodau i gyfrif.
Rydym wedi gwneud naw argymhelliad gyda'r nod o gyflwyno'r system mewn pryd ar gyfer y seithfed Senedd, fel y bydd yr holl Aelodau a etholir i'r Senedd honno yn cael eu cynnal i safon gyson o'r cychwyn cyntaf. Rydym yn falch fod y Llywodraeth wedi derbyn ein holl argymhellion naill ai'n llawn neu mewn egwyddor. Mae'n cael ei groesawu ac yn sicrhau ein bod yn gallu gweithio gyda'n gilydd i roi deddfwriaeth mor bwysig ar waith yng Nghymru.
Fel cam cyntaf, edrychodd y pwyllgor ar y model a fabwysiadwyd yn San Steffan ynghylch adalw, sydd wedi cael derbyniad da a'i ddefnyddio'n effeithiol i alluogi'r cyhoedd i ddwyn i gyfrif Aelodau sydd wedi gweithredu mewn ffyrdd nad oedd yn cyrraedd y safonau a oedd yn ddisgwyliedig ganddynt. Fodd bynnag, yn hytrach na dyblygu'r system hon, daethom i'r casgliad fod angen model a oedd yn gweddu i Gymru a'r system etholiadol a fydd ar waith ar gyfer ac yn dilyn etholiadau'r Senedd yn 2026.
Mae'r pwyllgor wedi mabwysiadu ymagwedd bragmatig ac ymarferol tuag at y gwaith hwn, ac wedi datgan mai symlrwydd a natur ddealladwy yw'r ddwy egwyddor bwysicaf wrth lunio'r system. Roedd yn ymddangos i ni mai proses un cam, un bleidlais sy'n gofyn a ddylai Aelod ildio'i le i'r unigolyn nesaf ar y rhestr neu gadw ei swydd yw'r ffordd orau o gyflawni'r egwyddorion hynny. Argymhellwyd gennym hefyd fod y Llywodraeth yn gweithio gyda'r Comisiwn Etholiadol i ddatblygu papur pleidleisio i gyflwyno'r wybodaeth mewn modd clir a hawdd ei deall, a'i bod yn gweithio gyda'r gymuned etholiadol i sicrhau bod gwybodaeth sy'n ymwneud ag adalw yn glir i bleidleiswyr. Mae'r argymhellion hyn i gyd wedi cael eu derbyn gan Lywodraeth Cymru.
Yn ogystal â phroses un cam, daethom i'r casgliad mai proses undydd, yn debyg i isetholiad, gan gynnig pleidleisio drwy'r post a thrwy ddirprwy, oedd y dull symlaf a mwyaf uniongyrchol. Ochr yn ochr â hyn, rydym yn falch fod y Llywodraeth wedi derbyn yr argymhelliad i ymgynghori â gweinyddwyr etholiadol a rhanddeiliaid eraill sydd â diddordeb ar oblygiadau ymarferol cynnal y bleidlais ar un diwrnod ar draws sawl man pleidleisio mewn etholaeth.
Gan symud nawr at yr argymhellion a dderbyniwyd mewn egwyddor, fel pwyllgor, nid oeddem yn teimlo bod 'adalw' yn enw ystyrlon na chywir ar y broses yr oeddem yn ei hargymell. Er ein bod yn cydnabod bod yna lefel o ddealltwriaeth o'r term ymhlith y cyhoedd, nid yw'n cyd-fynd â'r broses a argymhellir, a gall fod yn ddryslyd yng ngoleuni'r gwahaniaeth rhwng Cymru a San Steffan. Roeddem am sicrhau bod yr enw'n disgrifio'r broses yn well ac yn fwy cywir ac argymhellwyd yr ymadrodd 'pleidlais diswyddo a disodli'. Fodd bynnag, rydym yn derbyn efallai nad dyma'r derminoleg orau ychwaith, ond mae'n fan cychwyn ar gyfer trafodaethau am yr hyn y'i gelwir. Rydym yn edrych ymlaen at weithio gyda'r Llywodraeth wrth iddi roi ystyriaeth bellach i'r mater hwn.
Er mwyn gweithredu system safonau effeithiol a theg, mae gofyn cael hyblygrwydd wrth gymhwyso sancsiynau ac ystod o opsiynau. Fel pwyllgor, credwn mai'r ffordd orau o gyflawni hyn yw drwy beidio â chynnwys sbardunau penodol ar gyfer adalw mewn deddfwriaeth sylfaenol. Cafwyd llawer o feirniadu ar y Senedd am na all ymateb yn ddigon cyflym, ac o'r herwydd, roeddem o'r farn ei bod yn ddoeth caniatáu i'r Senedd allu penderfynu beth allai fod yn sbardun ar gyfer adalw. Credwn y bydd hyn hefyd yn helpu i ddiogelu'r broses ar gyfer y dyfodol, gan na fyddai angen diwygio deddfwriaeth sylfaenol. Er mwyn sicrhau dealltwriaeth hawdd, argymhellwyd y dylid nodi pob sbardun ar gyfer adalw yn y canllawiau, ond rydym yn derbyn y bydd y Llywodraeth am roi mwy o ystyriaeth i hyn ac y gellir cynnwys rhai materion mewn deddfwriaeth.
Ymhellach, roeddem yn argymell y dylai adalw fod yn sancsiwn ar ei ben ei hun sydd ar gael i'r pwyllgor sydd â chyfrifoldeb am faterion o dan Reol Sefydlog 22 i'w ddefnyddio. Roedd llawer o'r dystiolaeth a gawsom yn awgrymu bod y ddarpariaeth 10 diwrnod eistedd sydd ar waith yn San Steffan yn rhy isel, ac roedd yn ymddangos i ni yn dorbwynt rhy bendant. Mae hyn yn rhan o'r rhesymeg dros gael sancsiynau i ddeillio o'r pwyllgor cyfrifol, gan ganiatáu iddo ystyried ffactorau cynsail a lliniarol eraill. Rydym yn croesawu bwriad y Llywodraeth i ystyried yr argymhelliad hwn yn fanylach, yn ogystal â'i haddewid i archwilio union ffurf y canllawiau ar gyfer defnyddio adalw. Mae'r pwyllgor yn gefnogol i'r holl waith manwl ychwanegol ar y meysydd hyn, ac ni fyddai'n disgwyl llai gan y Llywodraeth wrth fwrw ymlaen â deddfwriaeth mor bwysig.
Lywydd, hoffwn fanteisio ar y cyfle hwn i ddiolch i aelodau'r pwyllgor presennol a'r rhai a ddechreuodd y gwaith hwn—gan gynnwys y Cadeirydd blaenorol, Vikki Howells, a'r cyn-aelodau Mark Drakeford a Natasha Asghar—am eu gwaith caled yn y maes. Hoffwn ddiolch hefyd i bawb a roddodd amser i roi tystiolaeth i'r ymchwiliad. Fe gasglwyd cryn dipyn o dystiolaeth gymhleth dros gyfnod byr o amser, ac mae hyn wedi bod yn amhrisiadwy i helpu ein hystyriaeth o'r mater hwn ac i'n galluogi i wneud yr argymhellion ystyriol a gwybodus a nodwyd heddiw.
I gloi, fel Cadeirydd y pwyllgor, rwy'n gobeithio y bydd yr Aelodau'n cytuno bod y cynigion hyn yn awgrymu dull ymarferol o gynyddu atebolrwydd o fewn y cyd-destun gwleidyddol yr ydym ac y byddwn yn gweithredu ynddo.
Rwy'n arbennig o falch hefyd bod cefnogaeth drawsbleidiol i'r egwyddor o fabwysiadu system adalw mewn pryd ar gyfer y seithfed Senedd, a'i bod wedi'i derbyn yn gyffredinol gan y Llywodraeth. Edrychaf ymlaen at glywed sylwadau Aelodau yn y ddadl. Diolch.
I am particularly pleased that there is cross-party support for the principle of adopting a recall system in time for the seventh Senedd, and that it has been generally accepted by the Government. I look forward to hearing comments from fellow Members in the debate. Thank you.
Gwnaf i ddechrau gan ddiolch i Gadeirydd y pwyllgor am ei gwaith yn ein harwain ni fel pwyllgor yn yr ymchwiliad yma.
I'll begin by thanking the Chair of the committee for her work in leading us as a committee in this inquiry.
I think Hannah's chairmanship of this committee in picking this up after the previous Chair is to be commended, as is the work of the other committee members on this, as I myself pick this mantle up from my colleague Natasha Asghar.
But I think this is a really good piece of work. I think this is a really integral piece to where we are as a Parliament in our history, and where we wish to be, going forward. Isn't it right that those politicians who fall foul of the standards that are expected of them are punished accordingly? I think recall, or remove and replace—that recommendation 4—I'm pretty open to that, Counsel General, on what that wording is, but I think anything that is clear to constituents within the new constituency regions as to what the process is is really integral. That's why I welcome the fact that the Government have accepted or accepted in principle the recommendations put forward by the committee.
I think it's really integral that when—if—this happens in the future, those constituents go to polling stations, it feels as real as possible to a general election, to a Senedd election, in that the ballot looks as clear as possible and the polling station feels like a polling station during a general election or Senedd election, and that, for all intents and purposes, it is an election. It might be a recall process, but for those taking part in it and going out and exercising their democratic duty in voting for or against an individual Member, I think it's important that it feels as real as possible to a normal election within the election cycle. I think that's incredibly important on this.
Coming back to the ideas around why we need this, I think the evidence that we took forward is important. And while this is a relatively young institution in comparison to that across Offa's Dyke in London, we're actually bringing this forward far sooner in our history than Westminster has, and I think that's something to be commended, as we move forward into the seventh Senedd.
I'm keeping my contribution relatively brief on this, Llywydd, but I'm pleased that it is the Counsel General and Minister for Delivery who is responding today on this, I believe, and bringing this piece of legislation forward for the seventh Senedd. Because time is of the essence in this; if we are to get this done in time for the seventh Senedd, then the Government must work quickly to bring this forward. It would receive support from myself and others in bringing forward a recall-style election for this and I know that that's one of the discussions that parties had in the initial discussion around Senedd reform more broadly.
I really commend the committee on their work on this, not just because I'm a member of the committee, Llywydd, but I commend it because this is a really interesting piece of work, I really enjoyed taking part in it. I think the chairmanship was excellent and the contribution from committee members on this was great. And my final thanks go to the clerking team and the whole team on the Senedd estate who supported us in doing this. I think we should be proud as a Senedd that we're bringing forward something like this so early in our institution's history. Diolch, Llywydd.
Rwy'n credu bod cadeiryddiaeth Hannah o'r pwyllgor hwn yn dilyn gwaith y Cadeirydd blaenorol i'w chanmol, fel y mae gwaith aelodau eraill y pwyllgor ar hyn, wrth i mi fy hun barhau'r gwaith a wnaed gan fy nghyd-Aelod Natasha Asghar.
Ond rwy'n credu bod hwn yn waith da iawn. Rwy'n credu bod hwn yn ganolog iawn i ble rydym fel Senedd yn ein hanes, a lle rydym am fod, wrth symud ymlaen. Onid yw'n iawn fod gwleidyddion sy'n methu cyrraedd y safonau sy'n ddisgwyliedig ganddynt yn cael eu cosbi yn unol â hynny? Rwy'n credu bod adalw, neu ddiswyddo a disodli—argymhelliad 4—rwy'n eithaf agored i hynny, Gwnsler Cyffredinol, ar beth yw'r geiriad, ond rwy'n credu bod unrhyw beth sy'n glir i etholwyr o fewn y rhanbarthau etholaethol newydd ynglŷn â beth yw'r broses yn wirioneddol hanfodol. Dyna pam rwy'n croesawu'r ffaith bod y Llywodraeth wedi derbyn neu dderbyn mewn egwyddor yr argymhellion a gyflwynwyd gan y pwyllgor.
Rwy'n credu ei bod hi'n wirioneddol hanfodol, pan fydd—os yw—hyn yn digwydd yn y dyfodol, fod yr etholwyr hynny'n mynd i orsafoedd pleidleisio, ei fod yn teimlo mor debyg â phosibl i etholiad cyffredinol, i etholiad Senedd, yn yr ystyr fod y bleidlais yn edrych mor glir â phosibl a bod yr orsaf bleidleisio'n teimlo fel gorsaf bleidleisio yn ystod etholiad cyffredinol neu etholiad Senedd, a'i fod yn etholiad i bob pwrpas. Efallai mai proses adalw fydd hi, ond i'r rhai sy'n cymryd rhan ynddi ac yn mynd allan i arfer eu dyletswydd ddemocrataidd drwy bleidleisio o blaid neu yn erbyn Aelod unigol, credaf ei bod yn bwysig ei fod yn teimlo mor debyg â phosibl i etholiad arferol o fewn y cylch etholiadol. Rwy'n credu bod hynny'n hynod o bwysig yn hyn o beth.
I ddod yn ôl at y syniadau ynghylch pam y mae angen hyn arnom, rwy'n credu bod y dystiolaeth a gyflwynwyd gennym yn bwysig. Ac er bod hwn yn sefydliad cymharol ifanc o'i gymharu â'r hyn a geir ar draws Clawdd Offa yn Llundain, rydym yn cyflwyno hyn yn gynt o lawer yn ein hanes nag a wnaeth San Steffan, ac rwy'n credu bod hynny'n rhywbeth i'w ganmol, wrth inni symud ymlaen i'r seithfed Senedd.
Rwy'n cadw fy nghyfraniad yn gymharol gryno ar hyn, Lywydd, ond rwy'n falch mai'r Cwnsler Cyffredinol a'r Gweinidog Cyflawni sy'n ymateb heddiw ar hyn, ac yn cyflwyno'r ddeddfwriaeth hon ar gyfer y seithfed Senedd. Oherwydd mae amser yn allweddol yn hyn; os ydym am ei wneud mewn pryd ar gyfer y seithfed Senedd, mae'n rhaid i'r Llywodraeth weithio'n gyflym i'w gyflwyno. Byddai'n cael cefnogaeth gennyf i ac eraill i gyflwyno etholiad adalw ar gyfer hyn a gwn mai dyna un o'r trafodaethau a gafodd y pleidiau yn y drafodaeth gychwynnol ynghylch diwygio'r Senedd yn ehangach.
Rwy'n cymeradwyo'r pwyllgor am eu gwaith ar hyn, nid yn unig oherwydd fy mod yn aelod o'r pwyllgor, Lywydd, ond rwy'n ei ganmol oherwydd bod hwn yn waith diddorol iawn, a mwynheais gymryd rhan ynddo. Rwy'n credu bod y gadeiryddiaeth yn rhagorol ac roedd cyfraniad aelodau'r pwyllgor ar hyn yn wych. A diolch yn olaf i'r tîm clercio a'r tîm cyfan ar ystad y Senedd a'n cefnogodd i wneud hyn. Rwy'n credu y dylem fod yn falch fel Senedd ein bod yn cyflwyno rhywbeth fel hyn mor gynnar yn hanes ein sefydliad. Diolch, Lywydd.
Dwi'n ategu beth yr oedd Sam yn ei ddweud.
I echo what Sam said.
I really thank everybody who's been involved in this process, from the Chair, the clerks and the members. It's been a seemingly easy thing, but the minute you start looking at it, you realise that it's got many different facets and many different aspects. And in conjunction with some of the other work that the committee is doing—around deception, around bullying and sexual harassment—it forms part of building the trust back into politics, and making sure that this institution and others, especially in Wales, have that trust in the political system, so that at least we can move things forward here in Wales. Obviously, it needs to be done in a timely fashion, and the legislation needs to be brought forward as soon as possible, to make sure that it's embedded in time for the 2026 election. That's going to be a challenge, but I echo again what Sam was saying about at least it's the Counsel General and Minister for Delivery taking that forward, so hopefully it will get delivered. So, we'll wait to see on that one, but we'll do our part as a committee, I'm sure, to facilitate that.
One thing that we needed to consider is that, obviously, the new system in Wales, in 2026, is going to be different from England, and different from anything that we've done before, other than the fact that it is the way that I was elected. So, the electoral system is going to be exactly the same way as every regional Member here has been elected. So, in a sense, we've been doing this for 25 years, it will just apply to everybody now. But in that, then, you need a recall system that mirrors that, and plug-and-play from Westminster doesn't necessarily work. So, that's why we've had to look at that. Obviously, there have been a few parts of evidence where there's been concern—and I'd acknowledge those concerns from people like the Electoral Reform Society—just worried about how it would work, and some of those concerns were raised. But the reality in balancing an effective accountability mechanism with the characteristics of the new electoral system will inevitably form some of those compromises, and that's what we've tried to do in the recommendations coming through from the committee.
I therefore really call on the Government now to give us a regular update as to how this is progressing and to make sure that the Senedd is kept informed. I also look forward to those debates on deception that are coming down the line, and also to now get on with some of the work that we've already started but have had to pause to do this work, which will now continue, around some of those aspects that I talked about earlier. So, diolch yn fawr, and I commend this report. Diolch.
Diolch i bawb sydd wedi bod yn rhan o'r broses hon, i'r Cadeirydd, y clercod a'r aelodau. Mae wedi bod yn ymddangosiadol hawdd i'w wneud, ond y munud y dechreuwch chi edrych arno, rydych chi'n sylweddoli bod iddo lawer o wahanol elfennau a llawer o wahanol agweddau. A chyda rhywfaint o'r gwaith arall y mae'r pwyllgor yn ei wneud—ar dwyll, ar fwlio ac aflonyddu rhywiol—mae'n rhan o ailadeiladu ymddiriedaeth mewn gwleidyddiaeth, a sicrhau bod ymddiriedaeth gan y sefydliad hwn ac eraill, yn enwedig yng Nghymru, yn y system wleidyddol, fel y gallwn o leiaf symud pethau ymlaen yma yng Nghymru. Yn amlwg, mae angen ei wneud mewn modd amserol, ac mae angen cyflwyno'r ddeddfwriaeth cyn gynted â phosibl, er mwyn sicrhau ei bod wedi'i hymgorffori mewn pryd ar gyfer etholiad 2026. Mae hynny'n mynd i fod yn her, ond rwy'n adleisio eto yr hyn a ddywedodd Sam mai'r Cwnsler Cyffredinol a'r Gweinidog Cyflawni sy'n bwrw ymlaen â hyn, felly mae gobaith y caiff ei gyflawni. Felly, arhoswn i weld hynny, ond fe wnawn ein rhan fel pwyllgor i hwyluso hynny.
Un peth yr oedd angen i ni ei ystyried yw bod y system newydd yng Nghymru, yn 2026, yn mynd i fod yn wahanol i Loegr, ac yn wahanol i unrhyw beth a wnaethom o'r blaen, ar wahân i'r ffaith mai dyna'r ffordd y cefais fy ethol. Felly, mae'r system etholiadol yn mynd i fod yr un ffordd yn union ag y mae pob Aelod rhanbarthol yma wedi cael ei ethol. Felly, ar un ystyr, fe fuom yn gwneud hyn ers 25 mlynedd, ond y bydd yn berthnasol i bawb nawr. Ond yn hynny o beth, wedyn, mae angen system adalw sy'n adlewyrchu hynny, ac nid yw efelychu San Steffan o reidrwydd yn gweithio. Dyna pam y bu'n rhaid i ni edrych ar hynny. Yn amlwg, cafwyd ambell ddarn o dystiolaeth lle bu peth pryder—a byddwn yn cydnabod y pryderon hynny gan bobl fel y Gymdeithas Diwygio Etholiadol—ynglŷn â sut y byddai'n gweithio, a mynegwyd rhai o'r pryderon hynny. Ond mae'n anochel y bydd y realiti wrth gydbwyso mecanwaith atebolrwydd effeithiol â nodweddion y system etholiadol newydd yn galw am beth cyfaddawdu, a dyna beth y gwnaethom geisio ei wneud yn yr argymhellion a ddaeth gan y pwyllgor.
Felly, rwy'n galw ar y Llywodraeth nawr i roi'r wybodaeth ddiweddaraf i ni yn rheolaidd ynglŷn â sut y mae hyn yn datblygu ac i sicrhau bod y Senedd yn cael ei hysbysu. Rwyf hefyd yn edrych ymlaen at y dadleuon ar dwyll sydd ar y ffordd, a hefyd at fwrw ymlaen nawr â gwaith yr ydym eisoes wedi'i ddechrau ar rai o'r agweddau y soniais amdanynt yn gynharach, sydd wedi gorfod cael ei ohirio er mwyn gwneud y gwaith hwn, ond a fydd yn parhau nawr. Felly, diolch yn fawr, ac rwy'n cymeradwyo'r adroddiad hwn. Diolch.
Like others have said, this is an excellent report, and I commend the Chair—or Chairs, perhaps—in the work that they've led on debating and discussing and taking this matter forward. I think there's general agreement—I certainly hope there is—across all parts of this Chamber that whatever name we use, whether it's 'recall' or a different name—I didn't expect to hear that in the speech; it's put me off—is accepted as a point of principle. The principle is accepted, and what we are debating and discussing now, and I hope over the coming months, is the process by which we deliver that accepted principle. I think that's really important. It's important that we recognise that the democracy of this place rests not simply on one election, but on how we deliver and the conduct of Members over a whole term, over the full four years. I think the committee has set out a first-class analysis of that, and has suggested some ways forward.
What I would like to do in the few moments I'll speak this afternoon is to outline some potential alternative options for us to consider as well. I do not have any comments to make on the points over thresholds—I think they are very clear, and I think the point that has been made in the committee's report about previous decisions of the committee creates a context by which we can understand that. But I think we will need to put that in law. What for me is important is, then, the process that we follow. It is important that any process a Member faces has elements of fairness hard-wired into it, and that the process continues to be a quasi-judicial one, where fairness is at the heart of that. Accountability and fairness have to be at the heart of all of this. And what I would like to see is a process by which decisions over conduct are taken in this place, in this Chamber, so that we do continue to hold each other to account for our actions and behaviours and conduct, and that we do that in a way that is done with due serious consideration, and potentially judicial oversight, if that is considered necessary.
For me, the role of the electorate comes in a different place. It comes in the place of elections and accountability, and, for me, that means that we do need to hold by-elections in any system. Now, I believe, and I fervently hope, that the current system we have, by which Members will be elected next year, will be in place only for a short period of time. I do not like the compromise that was made. I accepted it, I argued for it, I voted for it, but that doesn’t mean I like it. For me, I prefer the single transferrable vote, and I will be arguing in the coming months that the next Senedd should adopt the single transferrable vote as the means of election into the long term.
But we can also hold by-elections under a closed list system, because we can hold a by-election using the alternative vote, which maintains our proportionality, and our commitment to proportionality. And it does mean it is the electorate, and not a party, that chooses who sits here. And I think that’s really important. It’s important because one of the trademarks of the Westminster system, and I think we’re all influenced by the Westminster system, is that it is the system of recall that we see most used, and it’s being employed at the moment for a Member in the north-west of England. But I believe that we do need to maintain the principle of the electorate being able to pass judgment, not simply on the individual, but on who follows them. And that means that, in most STV systems, as far as I understand it—and, certainly, the system I’m most familiar with is in the Irish Republic—the system used is essentially the alternative vote system, to fill by-elections in the Dáil, where they occur during the term of office. And I believe that we can employ that here, so that where a vacancy is declared, following the process, we do hold a by-election for that post to be filled, and that that is done through the alternative vote.
But these are debates and discussions that we can have. We need to be moving fairly rapidly, for the reasons that Sam Kurtz has already outlined. But I do believe that we should have this debate honestly and fully as Members, not necessarily from political parties, or representing political points of view, but as individual Members, because the principle of recall, or whatever is accepted—what we debate and discuss now is how we deliver that, and how we make that level of accountability a reality. And I agree with what’s been said, that we need to do that with some speed, but also with due process.
Fel y mae eraill wedi’i ddweud, mae hwn yn adroddiad rhagorol, ac rwy'n cymeradwyo'r Cadeirydd—neu’r Cadeiryddion, efallai—am y gwaith y maent wedi’i arwain ar ddadlau a thrafod a symud y mater hwn yn ei flaen. Credaf fod cytundeb cyffredinol—rwy'n sicr yn gobeithio bod—ar draws pob rhan o'r Siambr hon, ni waeth pa enw a ddefnyddiwn, boed yn 'adalw' neu'n enw gwahanol—nid oeddwn yn disgwyl clywed hynny yn yr araith; mae wedi fy nhaflu—yn cael ei dderbyn fel pwynt o egwyddor. Derbynnir yr egwyddor, a’r hyn rydym yn ei drafod nawr, a thros y misoedd nesaf, gobeithio, yw’r broses a ddefnyddiwn i gyflawni’r egwyddor gymeradwy honno. Credaf fod hynny'n wirioneddol bwysig. Mae'n bwysig inni gydnabod bod democratiaeth y lle hwn yn dibynnu nid yn unig ar un etholiad, ond ar sut rydym yn cyflawni ac ymddygiad Aelodau dros dymor cyfan, dros y pedair blynedd lawn. Rwy'n credu bod y pwyllgor wedi gwneud dadansoddiad o’r radd flaenaf o hynny, ac wedi awgrymu rhai ffyrdd ymlaen.
Yr hyn yr hoffwn ei wneud yn yr ychydig eiliadau y byddaf yn siarad y prynhawn yma yw amlinellu opsiynau amgen posibl i ni eu hystyried hefyd. Nid oes gennyf unrhyw sylwadau i'w gwneud ar y pwyntiau ynghylch trothwyon—credaf eu bod yn glir iawn, a chredaf fod y pwynt a wnaed yn adroddiad y pwyllgor am benderfyniadau blaenorol y pwyllgor yn creu cyd-destun y gallwn ei ddefnyddio i ddeall hynny. Ond credaf y bydd angen inni ymgorffori hynny yn y gyfraith. Yr hyn sy’n bwysig i mi, felly, yw’r broses a ddilynwn. Mae’n bwysig fod elfennau o degwch yn rhan annatod o unrhyw broses y mae Aelod yn ei hwynebu, a bod y broses yn parhau i fod yn un lled-farnwrol, gyda thegwch wrth ei gwraidd. Mae'n rhaid i atebolrwydd a thegwch fod wrth wraidd hyn oll. A’r hyn yr hoffwn ei weld yw proses ar gyfer gwneud penderfyniadau ynghylch ymddygiad yn y lle hwn, yn y Siambr hon, fel ein bod yn parhau i ddwyn ein gilydd i gyfrif am ein gweithredoedd a’n hymddygiad a’n hymarweddiad, a’n bod yn gwneud hynny gydag ystyriaeth ddifrifol, a goruchwyliaeth farnwrol o bosibl, os ystyrir bod hynny’n angenrheidiol.
I mi, mae rôl yr etholwyr mewn lle gwahanol. Mae’n ymwneud ag etholiadau ac atebolrwydd, ac i mi, mae hynny’n golygu bod angen inni gynnal is-etholiadau mewn unrhyw system. Nawr, rwy'n credu ac yn mawr obeithio, y bydd y system bresennol sydd gennym, a ddefnyddir i ethol Aelodau y flwyddyn nesaf, ar waith am gyfnod byr yn unig. Nid wyf yn hoffi’r cyfaddawd a wnaed. Fe’i derbyniais, dadleuais drosto, pleidleisiais drosto, ond nid yw hynny’n golygu fy mod yn ei hoffi. I mi, mae’n well gennyf y bleidlais sengl drosglwyddadwy, a byddaf yn dadlau yn y misoedd nesaf y dylai’r Senedd nesaf fabwysiadu’r bleidlais sengl drosglwyddadwy fel y dull o ethol yn y tymor hir.
Ond gallwn hefyd gynnal is-etholiadau o dan system rhestr gaeedig, gan y gallwn gynnal is-etholiad gan ddefnyddio’r bleidlais amgen, sy’n cynnal ein cyfranoldeb, a’n hymrwymiad i gyfranoldeb. Ac mae'n golygu mai'r etholwyr, ac nid plaid, sy'n dewis pwy sy'n eistedd yma. A chredaf fod hynny'n wirioneddol bwysig. Mae'n bwysig am mai un o nodweddion system San Steffan, a chredaf fod pob un ohonom yn cael ein dylanwadu gan system San Steffan, yw mai'r system adalw a welwn yn cael ei defnyddio fwyaf, ac mae'n cael ei defnyddio ar hyn o bryd ar gyfer Aelod yng ngogledd-orllewin Lloegr. Ond credaf fod angen inni gynnal yr egwyddor fod yr etholwyr yn gallu lleisio eu barn, nid yn unig ar yr unigolyn, ond ar bwy sy’n eu dilyn. Ac mae hynny'n golygu, yn y rhan fwyaf o systemau pleidlais sengl drosglwyddadwy, hyd y deallaf—ac yn sicr, yn y system rwy'n fwyaf cyfarwydd â hi yng Ngweriniaeth Iwerddon—y system a ddefnyddir, yn ei hanfod, yw'r system bleidlais amgen, ar gyfer is-etholiadau yn y Dáil, lle maent yn digwydd yn ystod cyfnod y swydd. A chredaf y gallwn ddefnyddio honno yma, fel ein bod ni, lle mae sedd wag yn cael ei datgan, yn dilyn y broses, yn cynnal is-etholiad er mwyn llenwi'r sedd honno, a bod hynny’n digwydd drwy’r bleidlais amgen.
Ond mae’r rhain yn ddadleuon a thrafodaethau y gallwn eu cael. Mae angen inni symud yn weddol gyflym, am y rhesymau y mae Sam Kurtz eisoes wedi’u hamlinellu. Ond credaf y dylem gael y ddadl hon yn onest ac yn llawn fel Aelodau, nid o reidrwydd gan bleidiau gwleidyddol, neu'n cynrychioli safbwyntiau gwleidyddol, ond fel Aelodau unigol, gan y derbynnir egwyddor adalw, neu beth bynnag—yr hyn rydym yn ei ddadlau ac yn ei drafod nawr yw sut rydym y cyflawnwn hynny, a sut y gwireddwn y lefel honno o atebolrwydd. Ac rwy'n cytuno â'r hyn a ddywedwyd, fod angen inni wneud hynny'n gyflym, ond hefyd drwy'r drefn briodol.
A hefyd dwi’n ddiolchgar iawn i’r pwyllgor, ac i Gadeirydd y pwyllgor hefyd, am yr adroddiad yma. Mae o’n adroddiad o safon uchel iawn, felly diolch yn fawr iawn i chi.
And I’m also grateful to the committee, and to the Chair of the committee too, for this report. It is a report of a very high standard and quality, so thank you very much.
And it comes at a time, doesn’t it, when we know that the context for politics is at an all-time low. Political scandals have significantly contributed to public disillusionment with us as politicians. We went through the 2009 expenses scandal, the controversial personal protective equipment contracts, leaks about lockdown parties—let’s not forget those—and there have been even more, sadly, more recently. We also have a crisis of disengagement, and the two go together. So, our young people are not engaging with politics. We heard this week from the Electoral Commission that only 62 per cent of young people in Wales feel they have a good knowledge of democracy, which is far below the UK average.
But just to the content of this report, and to recall, which in essence, for me, is about restoring the contract between elected representatives and the public that they serve. It ensures that when trust is broken, when standards are undermined, voters have, as we have heard, a meaningful say in whether an individual should continue in office. It’s not about political opportunism, it’s about strengthening our democracy. And we’ve already seen the power of recall in Westminster. When the system was first introduced, some doubted whether it would be used at all, and since then we’ve seen a number of times when recall petitions have succeeded. And to declare an interest here, I obviously played a role in one particular recall petition.
The power of recall is not just its ability to remove an elected representative, it is the message it sends: that politicians must be held to high standards of conduct, or answer to the people. I am pleased to see the Welsh Government's broadly supportive response to the Standards of Conduct Committee's report. The Government's willingness to engage with the recommendations and openness to adapt to the system should be commended, so I do welcome that.
But we mustn’t lose sight of the urgency here. We have Senedd elections next year by, as we've heard, a different process, and it's really important that people feel that they can understand both the new process and understand this new system. So, I do urge the Government to consider how we can inform the public on both the new process of electing their representatives, but also on the recall process as well. So, I'd like to hear, if possible, more detail on how we plan to engage with the public and ensure that voters fully understand the recall system—how it operates and the conditions under which it is triggered. But I do welcome this report and I thank all members of the committee.
Ac mae'n dod ar adeg, onid yw, pan wyddom fod y cyd-destun ar gyfer gwleidyddiaeth yn is nag erioed. Mae sgandalau gwleidyddol wedi cyfrannu’n sylweddol at ddadrithiad y cyhoedd gyda ni fel gwleidyddion. Aethom drwy sgandal treuliau 2009, y contractau dadleuol ar gyfer cyfarpar diogelu personol, straeon yn cael eu datgelu am bartïon yn ystod y cyfyngiadau symud—gadewch inni beidio ag anghofio’r rheini—a chafwyd rhagor, yn anffodus, yn fwy diweddar. Hefyd, mae gennym argyfwng ymddieithrio, ac mae’r ddau beth yn mynd gyda’i gilydd. Felly, nid yw ein pobl ifanc yn ymgysylltu â gwleidyddiaeth. Clywsom yr wythnos hon gan y Comisiwn Etholiadol mai dim ond 62 y cant o bobl ifanc Cymru sy’n teimlo bod ganddynt wybodaeth dda am ddemocratiaeth, sy’n llawer is na'r cyfartaledd ar gyfer y DU.
Ond ar gynnwys yr adroddiad hwn, ac adalw, sydd yn ei hanfod, i mi, yn ymwneud ag adfer y contract rhwng cynrychiolwyr etholedig a’r cyhoedd y maent yn eu gwasanaethu. Pan fydd ymddiriedaeth yn cael ei thorri, pan fydd safonau’n cael eu tanseilio, mae'n sicrhau bod gan bleidleiswyr lais ystyrlon, fel y clywsom, yn y penderfyniad a ddylai unigolyn barhau yn ei swydd. Nid yw'n ymwneud ag oportiwnistiaeth wleidyddol, mae'n ymwneud â chryfhau ein democratiaeth. Ac rydym eisoes wedi gweld grym adalw yn San Steffan. Pan gyflwynwyd y system gyntaf, roedd rhai’n amau a fyddai’n cael ei defnyddio o gwbl, ac ers hynny, rydym wedi gweld nifer o achosion pan fo deisebau adalw wedi llwyddo. Ac i ddatgan buddiant yma, yn amlwg, chwaraeais ran mewn un ddeiseb adalw benodol.
Nid ei allu i gael gwared ar gynrychiolydd etholedig yn unig yw grym adalw, ond y neges y mae'n ei chyfleu: fod yn rhaid i wleidyddion gael eu dal i safonau ymddygiad uchel, neu fod yn atebol i'r bobl. Rwy’n falch o weld bod ymateb Llywodraeth Cymru i adroddiad y Pwyllgor Safonau Ymddygiad yn gefnogol ar y cyfan. Dylid canmol parodrwydd y Llywodraeth i ymgysylltu â’r argymhellion a’u parodrwydd i addasu i’r system, felly rwy’n croesawu hynny.
Ond mae'n rhaid inni beidio â cholli golwg ar y brys yn hyn o beth. Mae gennym etholiadau’r Senedd y flwyddyn nesaf yn cael eu cynnal drwy broses wahanol, fel y clywsom, ac mae’n bwysig iawn fod pobl yn teimlo eu bod yn gallu deall y broses newydd a deall y system newydd hon. Felly, rwy’n annog y Llywodraeth i ystyried sut y gallwn roi gwybod i'r cyhoedd am y broses newydd o ethol eu cynrychiolwyr, ond hefyd am y broses adalw hefyd. Felly, hoffwn glywed rhagor o fanylion, os oes modd, ynglŷn â sut y bwriadwn ymgysylltu â'r cyhoedd a sicrhau bod pleidleiswyr yn deall y system adalw yn llawn—sut y mae'n gweithredu a'r amodau ar gyfer ei sbarduno. Ond rwy'n croesawu'r adroddiad, a diolch i bob aelod o’r pwyllgor.
Diolch yn fawr i chi i gyd.
Thank you very much to all of you.
And I look forward to seeing this move on. Diolch.
Ac edrychaf ymlaen at ei weld yn symud ymlaen. Diolch.
As we head towards the Welsh general election of May 2026, it will be the most radical and the most democratic election in the history of devolution and of all the UK Parliaments: sixteen-plus voting, automatic registration—which will add, potentially, up to 0.5 million people to the electoral register—recall and removal, deception provisions, and a wholly proportional voting system.
The recommendation is for the creation of a process for the removal of a Member, and it is one where I believe there has been complete unity in this Senedd for that objective. It is based on a principle of personal responsibility by Members for their integrity and their standard of conduct. It is a specific Welsh model, creating a process for the removal of a Member whose conduct has fallen below what is acceptable and that the electorate should be allowed the choice of removing that individual. And it is a power to be exercised by the electorate. It’s right that they will be the ultimate arbiter. Thomas Paine wrote:
'A body of men holding themselves accountable to nobody ought not to be trusted by anybody.'
What I think the processes that we are introducing are doing is increasing our personal accountability, but also this Senedd’s political accountability to the electorate of Wales. It is a brave and radical step, and it will create, I believe, the most democratic institution in all of the Parliaments of the United Kingdom. Diolch.
Wrth inni symud tuag at etholiad cyffredinol Cymru ym mis Mai 2026, hwn fydd yr etholiad mwyaf radical a democrataidd yn hanes datganoli a holl Seneddau’r DU: pobl dros 16 oed yn pleidleisio, cofrestru awtomatig—a fydd yn ychwanegu, o bosibl, hyd at 0.5 miliwn o bobl at y gofrestr etholiadol—adalw a diswyddo, darpariaethau twyll, a system bleidleisio gwbl gyfrannol.
Yr argymhelliad yw creu proses ar gyfer diswyddo Aelod, ac mae’n un lle credaf fod undod llwyr yn y Senedd ar yr amcan hwnnw. Mae'n seiliedig ar egwyddor cyfrifoldeb personol Aelodau am eu huniondeb a safon eu hymddygiad. Mae’n fodel penodol i Gymru, sy'n creu proses ar gyfer diswyddo Aelod y mae eu hymddygiad wedi disgyn yn is na’r hyn sy’n dderbyniol a lle dylid caniatáu i’r etholwyr allu dewis cael gwared ar yr unigolyn hwnnw. Ac mae'n rym i'w arfer gan yr etholwyr. Mae'n iawn mai hwy fydd yn penderfynu yn y pen draw. Ysgrifennodd Thomas Paine:
'Ni ddylai unrhyw un ymddiried mewn corff o ddynion nad ydynt yn dal eu hunain yn atebol i neb.'
Yr hyn y credaf fod y prosesau a gyflwynwn yn ei wneud yw cynyddu ein hatebolrwydd personol, ond atebolrwydd gwleidyddol y Senedd hon hefyd i etholwyr Cymru. Mae’n gam dewr a radical, a bydd yn creu'r sefydliad mwyaf democrataidd o bob un o Seneddau’r Deyrnas Unedig. Diolch.
Y Cwnsler Cyffredinol nawr i ymateb i'r ddadl, i gyfrannu—Julie James.
The Counsel General to reply to the debate, Julie James.

Diolch, Llywydd. I want to start by expressing my gratitude to the Standards of Conduct Committee for its really diligent work on this crucial report. I think this is, really, proof that although the Senedd may still be a very young Parliament, we’ve come a very long way in our 25 years of existence. I think devolution has brought government closer to the people of Wales, and as we continue to evolve, we must ensure that our democratic structures remain strong, transparent and accountable. Public trust in politics is hard-won but easily lost, and it’s our duty to safeguard it.
People rightly expect high standards from their elected representatives, and when those standards aren’t met, they expect consequences. And that’s why we need a fair, transparent system that allows voters—the very people who put us here—to have the final say. Without that, I think we risk undermining confidence in our institutions and in our democracy. And in a democracy, confidence is everything.
So, to address these issues, the Welsh Government will bring forward primary legislation before the next election to introduce a recall system for the Senedd. Time is very tight, but we’re committed to working with the Senedd and its committees to get this done. And if we succeed, Llywydd, it will be a landmark moment in our Parliament’s history. This is about ensuring that the people of Wales always have a mechanism to hold their representatives to account, regardless of party, regardless of politics, because this is bigger than any one Government.
On that basis, we accept recommendation 1 in relation to the primary legislation necessary to establish this system. Following the passage of the Bill, there will need to be a focus on implementing secondary legislation and agreeing committee guidelines to ensure a smooth roll-out, some of which will necessarily fall to our successors in the next Senedd.
This proposal must also align with our new electoral system, which every Member, I think, who’s contributed has mentioned—a proportional, list-based system that was agreed upon by this Siambr last year—and I wholeheartedly support recommendation 2, which advocates for a single stage ballot asking voters whether a Member should stay or go. Any resulting vacancy will be filled using the existing processes, ensuring continuity and clarity for both the Senedd and the electorate.
The committee rightly emphasises the importance of clear and accessible information for voters. We accept recommendations 3, 8 and 9, to ensure that ballot papers, poll cards and voter information are well designed and informative. The recall process must be easily understood by the public. We will work closely with stakeholders, Senedd Members and the Electoral Commission to get this right.
I agree with the standards committee that the naming of the process matters. And while I do recognise the need to differentiate it from the UK system, I do myself have reservations about referring to it as a ‘remove and replace’ ballot. I think the Chair in her contribution had a bit of reservation on that as well. The system will not directly replace Members; it will remove them, with successors chosen through standard procedures. Given that 'recall' is widely understood as a mechanism for removing politicians, we will need to carefully reconsider this terminology as we develop the Bill. And, Llywydd, I very much hope that Members will engage in that process to help us all come to a mutually acceptable conclusion, because clarity in language leads to clarity in process.
And then, Llywydd, recommendation 5 introduces a new approach, a stand-alone recall sanction, to address the cliff-edge issues seen at Westminster. I think this is a promising idea and I support it in principle, but, due to its novelty, we must meticulously work through the legal and practical details. It’s essential it doesn’t become an arbitrary measure but instead provides a meaningful way to uphold standards without creating unintended consequences. This work is already in progress and we will move at pace to develop it. And as we develop this recall system, we must ensure it is flexible enough to adapt to future challenges. This is not just about today; it’s about creating a robust framework that can evolve with our democracy.
Llywydd, if we can make this work, it makes sense for the committee to develop clear guidelines on behaviours that could lead to recall, including both mitigating and aggravating factors. The public needs to have confidence in the process and know that it won’t be misused for political gain. We’re exploring how the Bill can formalise this process effectively.
I do slightly diverge from the committee’s perspective here, because I believe that certain clear-cut and externally determined offences should be explicitly listed in the Bill, such as cases where a Member is sentenced to prison but does not meet the threshold for automatic disqualification. This clarity is essential for both voters and Members. People need to know where the line is drawn and that such actions will lead to a recall poll. We also recognise the need for legal certainty in all aspects of the recall process. This will ensure that both voters and Members understand their rights and responsibilities clearly. A fair system is one where nobody is in doubt about the rules.
Finally, Llywydd, we support a simple, one-day vote that mirrors the Senedd election as closely as possible, accepting recommendation 7. The more familiar the process, the more accessible it will be to voters. A recall ballot should be straightforward and decisive, allowing the public to exercise their democratic right efficiently.
Llywydd, I haven’t addressed the issue of deliberate deception today, as the committee has provided a separate report on that matter, which will be debated independently. This separation allows us to focus on the Government’s position more clearly and to ensure that both discussions receive the attention they deserve.
So, in closing, I want to thank the committee Chair for today’s debate and all Members who contributed to this vital work. There is clear cross-party support for introducing a recall system and we have a significant task ahead of us. But, Llywydd, this is about strengthening our democracy, enhancing accountability, and putting power where it belongs: in the hands of the people of Wales. I look forward to collaborating with all of you to deliver this important change. Diolch.
Diolch, Lywydd. Hoffwn ddechrau drwy ddiolch i’r Pwyllgor Safonau Ymddygiad am ei waith diwyd iawn ar yr adroddiad hollbwysig hwn. Er bod y Senedd yn dal i fod yn ifanc iawn, rwy'n credu bod hyn yn brawf ein bod wedi dod yn bell iawn dros 25 mlynedd ein bodolaeth. Credaf fod datganoli wedi dod â llywodraeth yn nes at bobl Cymru, ac wrth inni barhau i esblygu, mae’n rhaid inni sicrhau bod ein strwythurau democrataidd yn parhau i fod yn gryf, yn dryloyw ac yn atebol. Mae ymddiriedaeth y cyhoedd mewn gwleidyddiaeth yn anodd ei hennill ond yn hawdd ei cholli, a'n dyletswydd ni yw ei diogelu.
Yn gywir ddigon, mae pobl yn disgwyl safonau uchel gan eu cynrychiolwyr etholedig, a phan na chaiff y safonau hynny eu cyrraedd, maent yn disgwyl canlyniadau. A dyna pam fod angen system deg a thryloyw arnom sy'n caniatáu i bleidleiswyr—yr union bobl a'n rhoddodd ni yma—gael y gair olaf. Heb hynny, credaf ein bod mewn perygl o danseilio hyder yn ein sefydliadau ac yn ein democratiaeth. Ac mewn democratiaeth, hyder yw popeth.
Felly, i fynd i’r afael â’r materion hyn, bydd Llywodraeth Cymru yn cyflwyno deddfwriaeth sylfaenol cyn yr etholiad nesaf i gyflwyno system adalw ar gyfer y Senedd. Mae amser yn brin iawn, ond rydym wedi ymrwymo i weithio gyda'r Senedd a'i phwyllgorau i gyflawni hyn. Ac os llwyddwn, Lywydd, bydd yn garreg filltir yn hanes ein Senedd. Mae a wnelo hyn â sicrhau bod gan bobl Cymru fecanwaith bob amser i ddwyn eu cynrychiolwyr i gyfrif, ni waeth beth fo’u plaid, ni waeth beth fo’u gwleidyddiaeth, gan fod hyn yn fwy nag unrhyw Lywodraeth.
Ar y sail honno, rydym yn derbyn argymhelliad 1 mewn perthynas â’r ddeddfwriaeth sylfaenol sy’n angenrheidiol i sefydlu’r system hon. Yn dilyn hynt y Bil, bydd angen canolbwyntio ar roi is-ddeddfwriaeth ar waith a chytuno ar ganllawiau pwyllgorau i sicrhau y caiff ei chyflwyno’n ddidrafferth, a bydd peth o hynny o anghenraid i'w wneud gan ein holynwyr yn y Senedd nesaf.
Mae'n rhaid i’r cynnig hwn hefyd alinio â’n system etholiadol newydd, fel y mae pob Aelod sydd wedi cyfrannu wedi crybwyll—system gyfrannol, seiliedig ar restr y cytunwyd arni gan y Siambr hon y llynedd—ac rwy’n llwyr gefnogi argymhelliad 2, sy’n hyrwyddo pleidlais un cam i ofyn i bleidleiswyr a ddylai Aelod aros neu fynd. Bydd unrhyw sedd wag o ganlyniad yn cael ei llenwi gan ddefnyddio’r prosesau presennol, gan sicrhau parhad ac eglurder i’r Senedd a’r etholwyr.
Mae’r pwyllgor, yn gywir ddigon, yn pwysleisio pwysigrwydd gwybodaeth glir a hygyrch i bleidleiswyr. Rydym yn derbyn argymhellion 3, 8 a 9, i sicrhau bod papurau pleidleisio, cardiau pleidleisio a gwybodaeth i bleidleiswyr wedi’u cynllunio’n dda ac yn darparu gwybodaeth. Mae'n rhaid i'r cyhoedd allu deall y broses adalw yn hawdd. Byddwn yn gweithio’n agos gyda rhanddeiliaid, Aelodau’r Senedd a’r Comisiwn Etholiadol i wneud hyn yn iawn.
Rwy'n cytuno â’r pwyllgor safonau fod enwi’r broses yn bwysig. Ac er fy mod yn cydnabod yr angen i wahaniaethu rhyngddi a system y DU, mae gennyf amheuon ynghylch cyfeirio ati fel pleidlais 'ddiswyddo a disodli'. Credaf fod y Cadeirydd wedi mynegi peth amheuaeth ynglŷn â hynny yn ei chyfraniad hefyd. Ni fydd y system yn disodli Aelodau'n uniongyrchol; bydd yn eu diswyddo, gydag olynwyr yn cael eu dewis drwy weithdrefnau safonol. O ystyried bod dealltwriaeth eang o ‘adalw’ fel mecanwaith ar gyfer diswyddo gwleidyddion, bydd angen inni ailystyried y derminoleg hon yn ofalus wrth inni ddatblygu’r Bil. Lywydd, rwy’n mawr obeithio y bydd yr Aelodau’n cymryd rhan yn y broses honno er mwyn cynorthwyo pob un ohonom i ddod i gasgliad sy’n dderbyniol i bawb, gan fod eglurder yr iaith yn arwain at eglurder y broses.
Ac yna, Lywydd, mae argymhelliad 5 yn cyflwyno dull newydd, sef y gallu i adalw Aelod fel sancsiwn ar ei ben ei hun, i fynd i'r afael â'r materion dybryd a welwyd yn San Steffan. Credaf fod hwn yn syniad addawol, ac rwy'n ei gefnogi mewn egwyddor, ond gan ei fod yn syniad newydd, mae’n rhaid inni weithio'n ofalus drwy'r manylion cyfreithiol ac ymarferol. Mae'n hanfodol nad yw'n dod yn fesur mympwyol ond yn hytrach ei fod yn darparu ffordd ystyrlon o gynnal safonau heb greu canlyniadau anfwriadol. Mae'r gwaith hwn eisoes yn mynd rhagddo a byddwn yn symud yn gyflym i'w ddatblygu. Ac wrth inni ddatblygu’r system adalw, rhaid inni sicrhau ei bod yn ddigon hyblyg i addasu i heriau’r dyfodol. Nid mater ar gyfer heddiw'n unig yw hyn; mae a wnelo â chreu fframwaith cadarn a all esblygu gyda'n democratiaeth.
Lywydd, os gallwn wneud i hyn weithio, mae’n gwneud synnwyr i’r pwyllgor ddatblygu canllawiau clir ar ymddygiadau a allai arwain at adalw, gan gynnwys ffactorau gwaethygol a lliniarol. Mae angen i'r cyhoedd fod â hyder yn y broses, a gwybod na fydd yn cael ei chamddefnyddio er budd gwleidyddol. Rydym yn archwilio sut y gall y Bil ffurfioli’r broses hon yn effeithiol.
Rwy'n anghytuno i raddau â safbwynt y pwyllgor yma, gan y credaf y dylid rhestru rhai troseddau clir a benderfynir yn allanol yn benodol yn y Bil, megis achosion lle caiff Aelod eu dedfrydu i garchar ond nad ydynt yn cyrraedd y trothwy ar gyfer anghymhwyso awtomatig. Mae'r eglurder hwn yn hanfodol i bleidleiswyr ac Aelodau. Mae angen i bobl wybod ble mae'r llinell ac y bydd camau o'r fath yn arwain at bleidlais adalw. Rydym hefyd yn cydnabod yr angen am sicrwydd cyfreithiol ym mhob agwedd ar y broses adalw. Bydd hyn yn sicrhau bod pleidleiswyr ac Aelodau yn deall eu hawliau a'u cyfrifoldebau yn glir. System deg yw un lle nad oes gan unrhyw un amheuaeth ynglŷn â'r rheolau.
Yn olaf, Lywydd, rydym yn cefnogi pleidlais undydd syml sy’n adlewyrchu etholiad y Senedd mor agos â phosibl, gan dderbyn argymhelliad 7. Po fwyaf cyfarwydd yw’r broses, y mwyaf hygyrch y bydd i bleidleiswyr. Dylai pleidlais adalw fod yn syml ac yn bendant, gan ganiatáu i’r cyhoedd arfer eu hawliau democrataidd yn effeithlon.
Lywydd, nid wyf wedi sôn am fater twyll bwriadol heddiw, gan fod y pwyllgor wedi darparu adroddiad ar wahân ar y mater hwnnw, ac fe gaiff ei drafod ar ei ben ei hun. Mae’r gwahanu hwn yn caniatáu inni ganolbwyntio ar safbwynt y Llywodraeth yn gliriach a sicrhau bod y ddwy drafodaeth yn cael y sylw y maent yn ei haeddu.
Felly, i gloi, hoffwn ddiolch i Gadeirydd y pwyllgor am y ddadl heddiw a’r holl Aelodau a gyfrannodd at y gwaith hanfodol hwn. Mae cefnogaeth drawsbleidiol glir i gyflwyno system adalw, ac mae gennym dasg sylweddol o’n blaenau. Ond Lywydd, mae a wnelo hyn â chryfhau ein democratiaeth, gwella atebolrwydd, a rhoi'r grym lle dylai fod: yn nwylo pobl Cymru. Edrychaf ymlaen at gydweithio â phob un ohonoch i gyflawni’r newid pwysig hwn. Diolch.
Daeth y Dirprwy Lywydd (David Rees) i’r Gadair.
The Deputy Presiding Officer (David Rees) took the Chair.
Galwaf ar Hannah Blythyn i ymateb i'r ddadl.
I call on Hannah Blythyn to reply to the debate.
Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd. Can I just respond by welcoming everybody’s contributions in a thoughtful and thorough manner? It really has been a pleasure, as my first big piece of work as Chair of the Standards of Conduct Committee, to actually do something we could get stuck into that can play a part and really contribute to strengthening our democracy here in the Senedd. I was asked, when we were discussing publicly the report, when it was published, why it had taken so long. I did point out that, actually, it was a lot quicker than Westminster: it had taken them a couple of centuries; it had only taken us a quarter. But, as part of that evolving democracy and alongside the other work we’re doing as the Standards of Conduct Committee, I look forward to working with Welsh Government, with all stakeholders and, actually, with all colleagues in the Siambr. Diolch.
Diolch, Ddirprwy Llywydd. A gaf i ymateb drwy groesawu cyfraniadau pawb mewn ffordd feddylgar a thrylwyr? Mae wedi bod yn bleser gwirioneddol, fel fy nhasg fawr gyntaf fel Cadeirydd y Pwyllgor Safonau Ymddygiad, i wneud rhywbeth y gallem wneud cynnydd arno a all chwarae rhan a chyfrannu at y gwaith o gryfhau ein democratiaeth yma yn y Senedd. Gofynnwyd i mi, pan oeddem yn trafod yr adroddiad yn gyhoeddus, pan gafodd ei gyhoeddi, pam ei fod wedi cymryd cymaint o amser. Dywedais ei fod wedi bod yn llawer cyflymach na San Steffan mewn gwirionedd: roedd wedi cymryd cwpl o ganrifoedd iddynt hwy; nid oedd ond wedi cymryd chwarter canrif i ni. Ond fel rhan o'r ddemocratiaeth esblygol honno ac ochr yn ochr â'r gwaith arall a wnawn fel y Pwyllgor Safonau Ymddygiad, edrychaf ymlaen at weithio gyda Llywodraeth Cymru, gyda'r holl randdeiliaid, a chyda phob cyd-Aelod yn y Siambr mewn gwirionedd. Diolch.
Y cwestiwn yw: a ddylid nodi adroddiad y pwyllgor? A oes unrhyw Aelod yn gwrthwynebu? Nac oes. Felly, derbynnir y cynnig yn unol â Rheol Sefydlog 12.36.
The proposal is to note the committee's report. Does any Member object? No. The motion is therefore agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.
Derbyniwyd y cynnig yn unol â Rheol Sefydlog 12.36.
Motion agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.
Eitem 7 heddiw yw dadl ar adroddiad y Pwyllgor Plant, Pobl Ifanc ac Addysg, 'Plant sydd ar yr ymylon', a galwaf ar Gadeirydd y pwyllgor i wneud y cynnig—Buffy Williams.
Item 7 this afternoon is a debate on the Children, Young People and Education Committee report, 'Children on the margins', and I call on the committee Chair to move the motion—Buffy Williams.
Cynnig NDM8847 Buffy Williams
Cynnig bod y Senedd:
Yn nodi adroddiad y Pwyllgor Plant, Pobl Ifanc ac Addysg, sef ‘Plant sydd ar yr ymylon’ a osodwyd yn y Swyddfa Gyflwyno ar 5 Rhagfyr 2024.
Motion NDM8847 Buffy Williams
To propose that the Senedd:
Notes the report of the Children, Young People and Education Committee ‘Children on the margins’ which was laid in the Table Office on 5 December 2024.
Cynigiwyd y cynnig.
Motion moved.
Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd. Imagine a child who is missing, their whereabouts unknown. They may be running from something—abuse, neglect or trauma—or perhaps they're being exploited, coerced into dangerous criminal activities. These are not hypothetical children; they are real children living in Wales today. And they are on the margins of society, vulnerable to manipulation, abuse and violence. We've heard powerful and heartbreaking accounts from those children: stories that are difficult to hear, experiences that are even more difficult to live through. The children who have gone missing or who are being exploited often endure unimaginable trauma, including brutal violence. Some are coerced into committing crimes themselves, others are exposed to dangerous situations, both physical and emotional, that no child should ever experience. These are the children we set out to better understand in our inquiry, ‘Children on the margins’. In our inquiry, we focused on two of the most vulnerable groups of children in Wales today: those who go missing, their whereabouts unknown, and those who are criminally exploited—children who are manipulated, deceived or forced into carrying out criminal activity. How are these children being failed by the systems that should protect them? And how can we do better?
Our report reflects real-life evidence of children who have experienced these challenges. Some children shared their experiences of being trafficked and forced into criminal activity through so-called county lines operations. Others spoke about being manipulated by local gangs or even exploited by members of their own family. They detailed how criminal gangs deliberately target children who’ve been excluded from school or those who do not attend school at all. For these children, school exclusion is often a gateway to exploitation and violence. Perhaps the most chilling story we heard was from a child who had been groomed over months, promised safety and care, only to find themselves trapped in a world of crime, violence and fear. These are not rare cases; they are growing numbers. And we must do everything we can to prevent such exploitation from continuing.
After hearing from these children and the professionals who work to support them, we identified several key findings. I want to highlight a few of the most important points today. Effective multi-agency working is crucial to ensuring vulnerable children are protected. It’s the thread that ties together the efforts of the police, social services, schools and health professionals. Yet, time and again, we’ve seen that poor information sharing across agencies leads to gaps in support and, too often, tragedy. This is a systemic issue that needs to be addressed. The response to children who are criminally exploited is often far behind the response to other vulnerable children. Awareness and understanding of criminal exploitation are inconsistent across Wales. Some professionals are doing exceptional work, but there is a wide variation in how these children are identified and supported, leaving many children at risk of further harm. We also identified clear risk factors that make children more likely to be exploited. School exclusion is a key risk. Children who are excluded from school or who struggle to remain in education are particularly vulnerable. Trauma, whether from abuse, neglect or the experience of being in care, also increases the likelihood of a child becoming a target for exploitation.
Diolch, Ddirprwy Llywydd. Dychmygwch blentyn sydd ar goll, a neb yn gwybod ble maent. Efallai eu bod yn rhedeg oddi wrth rywbeth—camdriniaeth, esgeulustod neu drawma—neu efallai fod rhywun yn camfanteisio arnynt, a'u bod yn cael eu gorfodi i wneud gweithgareddau troseddol peryglus. Nid plant damcaniaethol yw'r rhain; maent yn blant go iawn sy'n byw yng Nghymru heddiw. Ac maent ar ymylon cymdeithas, yn agored i fanipiwleiddio, trais a chamdriniaeth. Rydym wedi clywed hanesion pwerus a thorcalonnus gan y plant hynny: straeon sy’n anodd eu clywed, profiadau sy’n anos byth i fyw drwyddynt. Mae'r plant sydd wedi mynd ar goll neu blant y camfanteisir arnynt yn aml yn dioddef trawma na ellir ei ddychmygu, gan gynnwys trais ciaidd. Mae rhai'n cael eu gorfodi i gyflawni troseddau eu hunain, mae eraill yn agored i sefyllfaoedd peryglus, yn gorfforol ac yn emosiynol, na ddylai unrhyw blentyn mo'u profi byth. Dyma'r plant yr aethom ati i'w deall yn well yn ein hymchwiliad, 'Plant sydd ar yr ymylon'. Yn ein hymchwiliad, fe wnaethom ganolbwyntio ar ddau o’r grwpiau mwyaf agored i niwed o blant yng Nghymru heddiw: y rheini sy’n mynd ar goll, nad oes neb yn gwybod ble y maent, a’r rheini y camfanteisir arnynt yn droseddol—plant sy’n cael eu manipiwleiddio, eu twyllo neu eu gorfodi i gyflawni gweithgarwch troseddol. Sut y mae’r systemau a ddylai eu diogelu yn gwneud cam â'r plant hyn? A sut y gallwn wneud yn well?
Mae ein hadroddiad yn adlewyrchu tystiolaeth real gan blant sydd wedi profi'r heriau hyn. Rhannodd rhai plant eu profiadau o gael eu masnachu a’u gorfodi i gymryd rhan yng ngweithgarwch troseddol llinellau cyffuriau, fel y’u gelwir. Soniodd eraill am gael eu manipiwleiddio gan gangiau lleol, neu gamfanteisio gan aelodau o’u teuluoedd eu hunain hyd yn oed. Fe wnaethant fanylu ar y modd y mae gangiau troseddol yn mynd ati'n fwriadol i dargedu plant sydd wedi'u gwahardd o'r ysgol neu'r rheini nad ydynt yn mynychu'r ysgol o gwbl. I'r plant hyn, mae cael eu gwahardd o'r ysgol yn aml yn borth i gamfanteisio a thrais. Efallai mai’r stori fwyaf ddirdynnol a glywsom oedd yr un gan blentyn y meithrinwyd perthynas amhriodol â hwy am fisoedd, gydag addewid o ddiogelwch a gofal, ond yn lle hynny, cawsant eu caethiwo mewn byd o droseddu, trais ac ofn. Nid yw'r rhain yn achosion prin; mae'r niferoedd yn cynyddu. Ac mae'n rhaid inni wneud popeth yn ein gallu i atal camfanteisio o'r fath rhag parhau.
Ar ôl clywed gan y plant hyn a'r gweithwyr proffesiynol sy'n gweithio i'w cefnogi, fe wnaethom nodi nifer o ganfyddiadau allweddol. Rwyf am dynnu sylw at rai o’r pwyntiau pwysicaf heddiw. Mae gweithio amlasiantaethol effeithiol yn hanfodol i sicrhau bod plant sy'n agored i niwed yn cael eu diogelu. Dyma'r edefyn sy'n clymu ymdrechion yr heddlu, gwasanaethau cymdeithasol, ysgolion a gweithwyr iechyd proffesiynol. Fodd bynnag, dro ar ôl tro, gwelsom fod trefniadau rhannu gwybodaeth gwael ar draws asiantaethau yn arwain at fylchau mewn cymorth, ac yn rhy aml, at drasiedi. Mae hon yn broblem systemig y mae angen mynd i’r afael â hi. Mae'r ymateb i blant y camfanteisir yn droseddol arnynt yn aml ymhell ar ôl yr ymateb i blant eraill sy'n agored i niwed. Mae ymwybyddiaeth a dealltwriaeth o gamfanteisio troseddol yn anghyson ledled Cymru. Mae rhai gweithwyr proffesiynol yn gwneud gwaith eithriadol, ond mae amrywio eang yn y ffordd y caiff y plant hyn eu nodi a’u cefnogi, gan adael llawer o blant mewn perygl o niwed pellach. Hefyd, fe wnaethom nodi ffactorau risg clir sy'n gwneud plant yn fwy tebygol o ddod yn darged i gamfanteisio. Mae gwahardd o'r ysgol yn risg allweddol. Mae plant sy'n cael eu gwahardd o'r ysgol neu sy'n ei chael hi'n anodd aros mewn addysg yn arbennig o agored i niwed. Mae trawma, boed yn sgil camdriniaeth, esgeulustod neu’r profiad o fod mewn gofal, hefyd yn cynyddu’r tebygolrwydd y bydd plentyn yn dod yn darged i gamfanteisio.
But perhaps the most important thing to remember is that any child can become marginalised. It’s not just those with difficult backgrounds. Any child, regardless of their personal circumstances, can be pushed into the margins and left vulnerable to exploitation. The report makes a number of recommendations to address these issues. I’d like to highlight four key areas where we believe significant progress can be made.
When a child goes missing, it’s vital that we understand why. Return interviews, where a professional talks to the child after they have returned, are an essential part of this. These interviews give us an opportunity to identify the risks that the child is facing and to intervene early. However, we discovered that return interviews are not always offered. We recommended that the Welsh Government make the offer of a return interview mandatory, after every missing episode. Sadly, the Welsh Government rejected this recommendation, arguing that the research did not reach a consensus on whether return interviews should be mandatory.
We know that some young people, often those in care, can feel frustrated when they are reported as missing. They might have been out seeing friends and didn’t make it back home before curfew, like teenagers often do. For them, a return interview may not be right. But let me be clear: we did not recommend mandatory interviews for all children. We called for a mandatory offer of an interview. This is a simple step to ensure that every child has a chance to speak to a professional about their experience. The need for this is clear, and I ask the Welsh Government today for further clarity on their position on a mandatory offer of return interviews and why this would be a bad thing.
Another key recommendation was for a national strategy to address child criminal exploitation, to have a consistent and co-ordinated response across Wales. Since we wrote our report, the UK Government has announced plans to make it a criminal offence for an adult to use a child to commit a crime. This is an important development, but we still need a clear national strategy here in Wales. While the Welsh Government has expressed some reservations about a national strategy, many experts in the field believe that it is essential. We would be grateful if the Minister could please provide an update on the Government’s reflections, if any, in light of the UK Government’s new legislation.
During our inquiry, we visited Hillside secure unit, and spoke to some staff and young people there. It was a deeply moving visit. It was following this visit that the committee identified the need for better information sharing between agencies. The West Glamorgan safeguarding tracker, a digital platform that shares information between safeguarding partners, was one example of how technology can improve communication and co-ordination. The tracker flagged 93 people who had between 16 and 25 interactions with the NHS in just one year. It highlighted young people who had contact with both children’s services and the police, where that link had not previously been made by professionals. Minister, we welcome your recognition of the potential for digital platforms to improve information sharing. What are the Welsh Government’s own plans to improve information sharing? You mention the Connecting Care programme in your response. Can you give us an update on that work, please?
Finally, our report highlights the link between school exclusion and criminal exploitation. Children who are excluded from school or who refuse to attend are at higher risk of being targeted by criminal gangs. This is an urgent issue. We need to do more to keep children in education and to support schools in keeping vulnerable children engaged and learning. We are encouraged that the Welsh Government has accepted our recommendation to pilot a children missing education database to track children at risk of exploitation. We look forward to seeing the pilot begin this April, and hope it will lead to more proactive intervention for these children.
In conclusion, I want to express my deepest gratitude to all those who have contributed to this inquiry. I know that reliving these traumatic experiences is not easy. To the children and young who bravely shared their experiences, thank you. Your stories have been difficult to hear, but they are invaluable in helping us understand the challenges faced by those on the margins. To the professionals, carers, social workers, teachers and healthcare workers, thank you for your dedication to supporting vulnerable children. Our committee will continue to prioritise our scrutiny for the benefit of the most vulnerable children in Wales. Together, we can make a difference for these children and ensure that no child in Wales is left behind. I look forward to hearing contributions from Members across the Senedd.
Ond efallai mai'r peth pwysicaf i'w gofio yw y gall unrhyw blentyn gael eu gwthio i'r ymylon. Nid ymwneud â phlant o gefndiroedd anodd yn unig y mae hyn. Gall unrhyw blentyn, ni waeth beth fo'u hamgylchiadau personol, gael eu gwthio i'r ymylon a'u gadael yn agored i rywun gamfanteisio arnynt. Mae’r adroddiad yn gwneud nifer o argymhellion i fynd i’r afael â’r materion hyn. Hoffwn dynnu sylw at bedwar maes allweddol lle credwn y gellir gwneud cynnydd sylweddol.
Pan fydd plentyn yn mynd ar goll, mae'n hanfodol ein bod yn deall pam. Mae cyfweliadau dychwelyd, lle mae gweithiwr proffesiynol yn siarad â’r plentyn ar ôl iddynt ddychwelyd, yn rhan hanfodol o hyn. Mae'r cyfweliadau hyn yn rhoi cyfle inni nodi'r risgiau y mae'r plentyn yn eu hwynebu, ac ymyrryd yn gynnar. Fodd bynnag, canfuom nad yw cyfweliadau dychwelyd bob amser yn cael eu cynnig. Gwnaethom argymell bod Llywodraeth Cymru yn gwneud y cynnig o gyfweliad dychwelyd yn orfodol, ar ôl pob cyfnod o fynd ar goll. Yn anffodus, gwrthododd Llywodraeth Cymru yr argymhelliad hwn, gan ddadlau na ddaeth yr ymchwil i gonsensws ynglŷn ag a ddylai cyfweliadau dychwelyd fod yn orfodol.
Gwyddom y gall rhai pobl ifanc, yn aml y rheini mewn gofal, deimlo’n rhwystredig pan roddir gwybod i'r heddlu eu bod ar goll. Efallai eu bod wedi bod allan yn gweld ffrindiau a heb gyrraedd adref cyn cyrffyw, fel sy'n digwydd yn aml gyda phobl ifanc yn eu harddegau. Iddynt hwy, efallai na fydd cyfweliad dychwelyd yn briodol. Ond gadewch imi ddweud yn glir: ni wnaethom argymell cyfweliadau gorfodol ar gyfer pob plentyn. Fe wnaethom alw am gynnig gorfodol o gyfweliad. Mae hwn yn gam syml i sicrhau bod pob plentyn yn cael cyfle i siarad â gweithiwr proffesiynol am eu profiad. Mae’r angen am hyn yn glir, a gofynnaf i Lywodraeth Cymru heddiw am ragor o eglurder ynghylch eu safbwynt ar gynnig gorfodol o gyfweliadau dychwelyd a pham y byddai hyn yn beth gwael.
Argymhelliad allweddol arall oedd strategaeth genedlaethol i fynd i’r afael â chamfanteisio troseddol ar blant, er mwyn cael ymateb cyson a chydgysylltiedig ledled Cymru. Ers inni ysgrifennu ein hadroddiad, mae Llywodraeth y DU wedi cyhoeddi cynlluniau i’w gwneud yn drosedd i oedolyn ddefnyddio plentyn i gyflawni trosedd. Mae hwn yn ddatblygiad pwysig, ond mae angen strategaeth genedlaethol glir arnom yma yng Nghymru o hyd. Tra bo Llywodraeth Cymru wedi mynegi rhai amheuon ynghylch strategaeth genedlaethol, mae llawer o arbenigwyr yn y maes yn credu ei bod yn hanfodol. Byddem yn ddiolchgar pe gallai’r Gweinidog roi’r wybodaeth ddiweddaraf am syniadau'r Llywodraeth, os o gwbl, yng ngoleuni deddfwriaeth newydd Llywodraeth y DU.
Yn ystod ein hymchwiliad, fe wnaethom ymweld â chanolfan ddiogel Hillside, a siarad â staff a phobl ifanc yno. Roedd yn ymweliad dirdynnol iawn. Yn dilyn yr ymweliad hwn, nododd y pwyllgor yr angen am well trefniadau rhannu gwybodaeth rhwng asiantaethau. Roedd traciwr diogelu Gorllewin Morgannwg, platfform digidol sy’n rhannu gwybodaeth rhwng partneriaid diogelu, yn un enghraifft o sut y gall technoleg wella cyfathrebu a chydgysylltu. Nododd y traciwr 93 o bobl a gafodd rhwng 16 a 25 rhyngweithiad â'r GIG mewn blwyddyn yn unig. Nododd rai pobl ifanc a oedd mewn cysylltiad â'r gwasanaethau plant a'r heddlu, lle nad oedd y cyswllt hwnnw wedi'i wneud o'r blaen gan weithwyr proffesiynol. Weinidog, rydym yn croesawu eich cydnabyddiaeth i’r potensial i blatfformau digidol wella trefniadau rhannu gwybodaeth. Beth yw cynlluniau Llywodraeth Cymru ei hun i wella trefniadau rhannu gwybodaeth? Rydych chi'n sôn am raglen Cysylltu Gofal yn eich ymateb. A wnewch chi roi’r wybodaeth ddiweddaraf i ni am y gwaith hwnnw, os gwelwch yn dda?
Yn olaf, mae ein hadroddiad yn tynnu sylw at y cysylltiad rhwng gwahardd plant o’r ysgol a chamfanteisio troseddol. Mae plant sy'n cael eu gwahardd o'r ysgol neu sy'n gwrthod mynychu mewn mwy o berygl o gael eu targedu gan gangiau troseddol. Mae hwn yn fater brys. Mae angen inni wneud mwy i gadw plant mewn addysg ac i gefnogi ysgolion i gadw diddordeb plant agored i niwed mewn dysgu. Mae’n galonogol gweld bod Llywodraeth Cymru wedi derbyn ein hargymhelliad i dreialu cronfa ddata plant sy’n colli addysg i olrhain plant sydd mewn perygl o ddod yn darged i gamfanteisio. Edrychwn ymlaen at weld y peilot yn dechrau ym mis Ebrill eleni, a gobeithio y bydd yn arwain at ymyrraeth fwy rhagweithiol ar gyfer y plant hyn.
I gloi, hoffwn ddiolch o galon i bawb sydd wedi cyfrannu at yr ymchwiliad hwn. Gwn nad yw’n hawdd ail-fyw’r profiadau trawmatig hyn. I’r plant a’r bobl ifanc a rannodd eu profiadau'n ddewr, diolch. Mae eich straeon wedi bod yn anodd eu clywed, ond maent yn amhrisiadwy i'n helpu i ddeall yr heriau a wynebir gan y rheini ar yr ymylon. I'r gweithwyr proffesiynol, gofalwyr, gweithwyr cymdeithasol, athrawon a gweithwyr gofal iechyd, diolch am eich ymroddiad i gefnogi plant agored i niwed. Bydd ein pwyllgor yn parhau i flaenoriaethu ein gwaith craffu er budd y plant mwyaf agored i niwed yng Nghymru. Gyda’n gilydd, gallwn wneud gwahaniaeth i’r plant hyn a sicrhau na chaiff unrhyw blant yng Nghymru eu gadael ar ôl. Edrychaf ymlaen at glywed cyfraniadau gan yr Aelodau ar draws y Senedd.
Can I thank my committee Chair, Buffy, for opening this debate, and the clerking team for producing such a comprehensive report? I also want to thank and pay tribute to all those who gave evidence.
I think we can all agree that it highlights some serious challenges for the Welsh Government in improving the effectiveness of the current support systems for children on the margins, and it shows what action is needed, sooner rather than later. Sadly, the report highlights once again the issues that the Welsh Government has in collecting data. We see this across many different areas that the Welsh Government has responsibility for, particularly health, and this is something that is of serious concern among many health professionals and charities. We ultimately have to acknowledge that failure by the Welsh Government to ensure that reliable and robust data is collected is now having a detrimental impact on the lives of people in Wales. The fact that a local authority reported more individual children missing from care than the total number of children who were in care at the time goes to show how careless the data collection has become, and the truth is, whether the Welsh Government wants to admit it or not, it has not been diligent enough in ensuring public bodies collect, report and update it.
I am pleased to see the recommendations by the committee that immediate action should be taken on this and that the Welsh Government has accepted this. I also think that the six-month timeline for achieving this is actually quite fair, and to take any longer just shows that it is not a priority for the Government. With this in mind, can I urge the Government to really consider this and not just kick it into the long grass? Better data means that better decisions can be made, resources can be used more wisely and, most importantly, it means that better and more effective systems can be developed, which can prevent many children from going missing in the first place.
We have to acknowledge that there are many children in Wales who are vulnerable, and I agree with the committee that return interviews are an essential part of helping those who are found to finally get back to a sense of normalcy and everyday life. It is a big decision for a child or young person to choose to leave home, and the events leading up to this and the mental well-being of the child or young person has to be at the forefront when providing support services. I cannot see any reason why we can’t offer a return interview. We have skilled professionals who are able to adequately assess the state of mind and the circumstances that led up to someone choosing to leave home, and it’s important that we continually understand the social and home environment that children and young people are living in.
I recognise the importance of children and young people in care having a statutory right to access independent advocates, including when they have been reported missing. Unless this is a requirement in law, some of them will always remain some of society’s most vulnerable, who will not be declaring, discussing or seeking help for the issues that they are facing.
County lines is a serious issue. Not only is it very difficult to track the people responsible, but they deliberately target children in care. The sad truth is that young children are enticed by the prospect of earning comparatively huge amounts of money for transporting drugs. They are made to finally feel part of something, so they don’t see the danger or criminal aspect of what they’re doing. As the report evidence sessions have highlighted, those responsible for recruitment are organised and meticulous in their recruitment techniques. Because children and young people in care have effectively lost their protective buffers of family and friends, they are ripe for exploitation.
It is extremely worrying that child criminal exploitation is so frequently identified as a form of exploitation in Wales. I was shocked to learn from the Minister that 59 per cent of referrals between April and June of 2024 were for children, and 49 per cent of the referrals were for criminal exploitation. I was therefore surprised to see that the Welsh Government rejected recommendation 12, to develop a child criminal exploitation risk assessment tool for use by front-line staff. I strongly argue against the Welsh Government's response here. If the existing mechanisms were fit for purpose, then surely we wouldn't find ourselves in the position that we do.
Assessment tools would not only aid training, but encourage a consistent approach across different sectors, such as policing and health. Moreover, assessment tools, once developed, can be easily and relatively quickly updated to respond to new and emerging exploitation methods, which is ultimately half the battle. Criminals who exploit vulnerable people don't just stop when they have perfected their technique. They're constantly trying and developing new methods, and assessment tools, in my opinion, would generally help.
Thank you, Dirprwy Lywydd. I would like to finish by saying that this is a thorough report and it's good to see that so many recommendations have been accepted by the Welsh Government. Thank you.
A gaf i ddiolch i Gadeirydd fy mhwyllgor, Buffy, am agor y ddadl hon, a'r tîm clercio am lunio adroddiad mor gynhwysfawr? Rwyf hefyd eisiau diolch a thalu teyrnged i bawb a roddodd dystiolaeth.
Rwy'n credu y gallwn i gyd gytuno ei fod yn amlygu heriau difrifol i Lywodraeth Cymru o ran gwella effeithiolrwydd y systemau cymorth presennol i blant ar yr ymylon, ac mae'n dangos pa gamau sydd eu hangen, yn gynt yn hytrach nag yn hwyrach. Yn anffodus, mae'r adroddiad yn tynnu sylw unwaith eto at y problemau y mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn eu cael gyda chasglu data. Rydym yn gweld hyn ar draws llawer o wahanol feysydd y mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn gyfrifol amdanynt, yn enwedig iechyd, ac mae'n rhywbeth sy'n peri pryder difrifol ymhlith llawer o weithwyr iechyd proffesiynol ac elusennau. Yn y pen draw, mae'n rhaid i ni gydnabod bod methiant Llywodraeth Cymru i sicrhau bod data dibynadwy a chadarn yn cael ei gasglu bellach yn cael effaith andwyol ar fywydau pobl yng Nghymru. Mae'r ffaith bod awdurdod lleol wedi adrodd bod mwy o blant unigol ar goll o ofal na chyfanswm y plant a oedd mewn gofal ar y pryd yn dangos pa mor ddiofal yw'r gwaith o gasglu data bellach, a'r gwir yw, pa un a yw Llywodraeth Cymru am gyfaddef hynny ai peidio, yw nad yw wedi mynd ati'n ddigon diwyd i sicrhau bod cyrff cyhoeddus yn casglu, yn adrodd ac yn diweddaru data.
Rwy'n falch o weld argymhellion y pwyllgor y dylid gweithredu ar unwaith ar hyn a bod Llywodraeth Cymru wedi eu derbyn. Credaf hefyd fod y llinell amser o chwe mis ar gyfer cyflawni hyn yn eithaf teg mewn gwirionedd, ac mae cymryd mwy o amser yn dangos nad yw'n flaenoriaeth i'r Llywodraeth. Gyda hyn mewn golwg, a gaf i annog y Llywodraeth i roi ystyriaeth ddifrifol i hyn ac nid parhau i ohirio? Mae data gwell yn golygu y gellir gwneud penderfyniadau gwell, gellir defnyddio adnoddau'n ddoethach, ac yn bwysicaf oll, mae'n golygu y gellir datblygu systemau gwell a mwy effeithiol, a all atal llawer o blant rhag mynd ar goll yn y lle cyntaf.
Mae'n rhaid inni gydnabod bod llawer o blant yng Nghymru yn agored i niwed, ac rwy'n cytuno â'r pwyllgor fod cyfweliadau dychwelyd yn rhan hanfodol o helpu'r rhai sydd wedi bod ar goll i allu dychwelyd o'r diwedd i ymdeimlad o normalrwydd a bywyd bob dydd. Mae'n benderfyniad mawr i blentyn neu unigolyn ifanc ddewis gadael cartref, ac mae'n rhaid i'r digwyddiadau sy'n arwain at hyn a lles meddyliol y plentyn neu'r unigolyn ifanc fod yn flaenllaw wrth ddarparu gwasanaethau cymorth. Ni allaf weld unrhyw reswm pam na allwn gynnig cyfweliad dychwelyd. Mae gennym weithwyr proffesiynol medrus sy'n gallu asesu cyflwr meddwl a'r amgylchiadau a arweiniodd at rywun yn dewis gadael cartref, ac mae'n bwysig ein bod yn deall yn barhaus yr amgylchedd cymdeithasol ac amgylchedd y cartref y mae plant a phobl ifanc yn byw ynddynt.
Rwy'n cydnabod pwysigrwydd hawl statudol plant a phobl ifanc mewn gofal i gael mynediad at eiriolwyr annibynnol, yn cynnwys pan adroddir eu bod ar goll. Oni bai bod hyn yn ofyniad cyfreithiol, bydd rhai ohonynt bob amser yn parhau i fod ymhlith y bobl fwyaf agored i niwed mewn cymdeithas, na fyddant yn datgan, yn trafod neu'n ceisio cymorth ar gyfer y problemau y maent yn eu hwynebu.
Mae llinellau cyffuriau yn broblem difrifol. Nid yn unig y mae'n anodd iawn olrhain y bobl sy'n gyfrifol, ond maent yn targedu plant mewn gofal yn fwriadol. Y gwir trist yw bod plant ifanc yn cael eu hudo gan y posibilrwydd o ennill symiau cymharol enfawr o arian am gludo cyffuriau. Fe'u gwneir i deimlo'n rhan o rywbeth o'r diwedd, felly nid ydynt yn gweld y perygl na'r agwedd droseddol ar yr hyn a wnânt. Fel y mae sesiynau tystiolaeth yr adroddiad wedi nodi, mae'r rhai sy'n gyfrifol am recriwtio yn drefnus ac yn fanwl yn eu technegau recriwtio. Oherwydd bod plant a phobl ifanc mewn gofal wedi colli eu byffer amddiffynnol o deulu a ffrindiau i bob pwrpas, mae'n hawdd iawn camfanteisio arnynt.
Mae'n destun pryder mawr bod camfanteisio troseddol ar blant yn cael ei nodi mor aml fel ffurf ar gamfanteisio yng Nghymru. Cefais sioc o glywed gan y Gweinidog fod 59 y cant o'r atgyfeiriadau rhwng mis Ebrill a mis Mehefin 2024 ar gyfer plant, ac roedd 49 y cant o'r atgyfeiriadau ar gyfer camfanteisio troseddol. Felly, cefais fy synnu o weld bod Llywodraeth Cymru wedi gwrthod argymhelliad 12, i ddatblygu offeryn asesu risg camfanteisio troseddol ar blant Cymru i’w ddefnyddio gan staff y rheng flaen. Rwy'n dadlau'n gryf yn erbyn ymateb Llywodraeth Cymru yma. Pe bai'r mecanweithiau presennol yn addas i'r diben, ni fyddem yn y sefyllfa rydym ynddi.
Byddai offer asesu nid yn unig yn cynorthwyo hyfforddiant, byddent hefyd yn annog dull cyson o weithredu ar draws gwahanol sectorau, fel plismona ac iechyd. Ar ben hynny, ar ôl eu datblygu, gellir datblygu offer asesu'n hawdd ac yn gymharol gyflym i ymateb i ddulliau newydd o gamfanteisio a rhai sy'n dod i'r amlwg, sef hanner y frwydr yn y pen draw. Nid yw troseddwyr sy'n camfanteisio ar bobl agored i niwed yn rhoi'r gorau iddi pan fyddant wedi perffeithio eu techneg. Maent yn ceisio datblygu dulliau newydd yn barhaus, ac at ei gilydd, byddai offer asesu'n helpu yn fy marn i.
Diolch, Ddirprwy Lywydd. Hoffwn orffen drwy ddweud bod hwn yn adroddiad trylwyr ac mae'n dda gweld bod cymaint o argymhellion wedi cael eu derbyn gan Lywodraeth Cymru. Diolch.
Gaf i ddiolch i'r Cadeirydd am gyflwyno'r adroddiad yma? Mae'n adroddiad sydd o bwys mawr, sef lles a dyfodol ein plant, yn enwedig y rhai sydd wedi cael eu heithrio o gymdeithas. Mae'r adroddiad yn nodi yn glir y peryglon maen nhw'n eu hwynebu wrth fod ar ymylon cymdeithas, allan o ofal arferol, yn gadael eu hunain yn agored i niwed, yn gadael eu hunain yn agored i gael eu hecsbloetio. Mae'r adroddiad yma yn ein hatgoffa ni hefyd o'r angen brys am newid systemig i ddiogelu a chefnogi'r plant hyn.
Er nad oeddwn i'n aelod o'r pwyllgor o'r dechrau, fe ddes i mewn ar ddiwedd yr ymchwiliad a chael fy syfrdanu gan y dystiolaeth a welais i a gweddill y pwyllgor ynglŷn ag effaith cael eu hecsbloetio ar bobl ifanc. Gwnaf sôn ychydig am hynny cyn y diwedd. Dwi eisiau diolch i bawb sydd wedi rhoi tystiolaeth i ni fel pwyllgor, er mor anodd oedd hynny i nifer o'r tystion, a'r sefydliadau hefyd sydd wedi cyflwyno ymatebion ysgrifenedig yn ogystal.
Wrth gwrs, dyw'r ystadegau moel am gamfanteisio a cham-drin sy'n cael eu cyfeirio atyn nhw yn yr adroddiad ddim yn dweud y stori yn llawn, achos ystadegau ydyn nhw. Beth sydd y tu ôl i'r ystadegau yna yw trasiediau bywyd go iawn sy'n siapio bywydau plant, a newid bywydau am byth, a hefyd effaith hynny ar eu teuluoedd a'u cymunedau. Gall y profiadau hyn gael effeithiau dinistriol a hirdymor mewn rhai achosion, ac efallai bydd y plant yma byth yn gallu dod dros y boen a'r dioddefaint yna maen nhw wedi'u profi. Dyma'r realiti allwn ni ddim ei anwybyddu, ac mae'r cyfrifoldeb arnom ni i sicrhau bod eu bywydau nhw yn well ar gyfer y dyfodol.
Un peth a oedd yn glir i mi o'r adroddiad oedd yr angen i gasglu data, ac efallai yn bwysicach na chasglu'r data, rhannu'r data yna hefyd, a sicrhau bod cydweithio cadarn yn digwydd ar draws sefydliadau ac awdurdodau lleol. Gallai rhannu data yn effeithiol wella canlyniadau yn sylweddol i bobl ifanc sydd mewn perygl, a drwy rannu data a systemau, gallwn ni sicrhau nad yw unrhyw blentyn yn disgyn trwy'r craciau. Dyna beth sydd yn digwydd yn llawer rhy aml. Gallem greu rhwydwaith o gymorth sy'n ddi-dor ac yn gynhwysfawr, lle mae'r gweithwyr proffesiynol yn gyson yn canolbwyntio ar les pob plentyn, ar sail data, gwybodaeth a thystiolaeth. Byddai'r dull cydweithredol hwn yn ein galluogi i ymateb yn effeithiol ar adegau critigol, ac i ddal ein hunain yn atebol am ofal a diogelwch ein pobl ifanc.
Ymhellach i hyn, er nad yw'r adroddiad yn galw yn benodol am ddatganoli cyfiawnder ieuenctid, rwy'n credu yn gryf ei fod yn gam hanfodol y dylem ni ei ystyried. Mewn sgyrsiau anffurfiol, roedd nifer o'r pwyllgor yn cytuno â hyn, achos trwy ddod â chyfiawnder ieuenctid o dan ein rheolaeth ni yma, gallem ni fod wedyn yn teilwra ein dull ni o weithredu ar gyfer anghenion unigryw plant Cymru. Gallem ni ddatblygu polisïau ac arferion sy'n fwy ymatebol, ie, ac yn fwy tosturiol ac yn fwy effeithiol wrth fynd i'r afael ag achosion sylfaenol ymylu a chamfanteisio. Wrth gwrs, i Blaid Cymru, fe hoffem ni weld yr holl system gyfiawnder yn cael ei datganoli, ac yna fyddem ni ddim yn colli’r bobl ifanc yma o'n system wrth iddynt fynd o'r system ieuenctid i’r system oedolion, ond trafodaeth ar gyfer rhyw ddiwrnod arall yw hynny.
Felly, i gloi, Dirprwy Lywydd, rwy’n gobeithio bydd y Llywodraeth yn gweithredu'r argymhellion yma o'r adroddiad ar frys. Does gennym ni ddim amser i'w golli. Gadewch i ni weithio gyda'n gilydd i wneud gwahaniaeth gwirioneddol i fywydau ein plant mwyaf agored i niwed. A gadewch i ni sicrhau bod gan bob plentyn yng Nghymru y cyfle i dyfu i fyny yn ddiogel, wedi'u cefnogi ac wedi'u grymuso. Diolch yn fawr iawn.
May I thank the Chair for presenting this report today? It is a report that is of very great importance because it discusses the welfare and future of our children, especially those who are on the margins of society. The report notes clearly the dangers that they face in being on the margins of society, away from the usual care that can be provided, which leaves them vulnerable to harm and vulnerable to exploitation. The report reminds us too of the urgent need for systemic change to safeguard and support these children.
Although I wasn't a member of the committee from the very beginning, I joined the committee towards the end of the inquiry and I was shocked by the evidence that I and the other committee members saw and heard about the impact of exploitation on young people, and I'll speak a little bit about that later on in my contribution. I want to thank everyone who gave evidence to us as a committee, despite how difficult that must have been for a number of witnesses, and the organisations that submitted written evidence to the committee.
Of course, the bare statistics about exploitation and abuse referred to in the report don't tell the whole story, because they are just statistics. What lies behind those statistics are the real lived tragedies that shape the lives of children, and change the lives of those children forever, and the impact that that has on their families and on their communities. These experiences can have harmful and long-term impacts in some cases, and perhaps these children will never be able to overcome the pain and suffering that they have experienced. This is the reality that we cannot ignore, and there is a responsibility on us to ensure that their lives are better for the future.
One thing that was clear to me from the report was the need to collect data, and perhaps more important than the collection of data, the sharing of that data as well, and ensuring that there is robust collaboration between organisations and local authorities. Effective data sharing could improve outcomes significantly for young people who are at risk, and by sharing data and systems we can ensure that no child falls through the cracks. That is what happens far too often. We could create a support network that is seamless and comprehensive, where the professionals are consistently focused on the welfare of every child, based on data, information and evidence. This collaborative approach would enable us to respond effectively at critical junctures, and to hold ourselves accountable for the care and safety of our young people.
Further to this, although the report does not call specifically for the devolution of youth justice, I believe strongly that this is a crucial step that we should be considering. In informal conversations, many committee members agreed with this, because by bringing youth justice under our control here, we could then tailor our approach to meet the unique needs of children in Wales. We could develop policies and practices that are more responsive, yes, and more compassionate too and more effective in tackling the fundamental causes of marginalisation and exploitation. Of course, for Plaid Cymru, we would like to see the entire justice system being devolved, and then we wouldn't lose these young people from our system as they move from the youth system to the adult system, but perhaps that's a discussion for another day.
So, to conclude, Dirprwy Lywydd, I hope that the Government will implement the report’s recommendations at pace. We don't have any time to lose. Let's work together to make a genuine and tangible difference to the lives of our most vulnerable children. And let us ensure that every child in Wales has the opportunity to grow up safely, feeling supported and empowered. Thank you very much.
Firstly, I'd like to pay tribute to the Chair, Buffy Williams, for the commitment and passion that you have shown in highlighting and putting a spotlight on this particular issue. You have shown real passion and been a driver behind making sure that the voices and the experiences of these children are actually brought out into the Senedd and into the public, so thank you very much. Diolch yn fawr iawn.
The title of the report, 'Children on the margins', is really something we should be ashamed of because they shouldn't be children on the margin; they should be children right in the middle of everything that we think of and do, because these are the most vulnerable, the most exploited, the most challenged, and sometimes, I know, the most challenging children and young people. Their experiences of growing up, of being mistreated, criminally exploited is something that we really should be deeply ashamed of here in Wales.
You as Chair highlighted a story of missed opportunities, missed conversations, unmade interventions, unacted decisions. One professional in the report described reading about the lives of criminally exploited children as
'looking at a car crash in slow motion'.
This report, I hope, will not become another missed opportunity for these vulnerable groups. We must act on this. We must have decisive action and we must move forward on this. So, I do look forward to hearing from the Welsh Government why they have not enacted all of the recommendations in this report.
I wish to cover a few, if I may. Firstly, one that I know the Chair highlighted, that of the return home interviews. In paragraph 62 of your report, you say,
'We were surprised, therefore, when the Minister for Children and Social Services told us that there is no consensus over whether there should be a mandatory offer of a return interview'.
I'm really surprised at that. I'd like to hear more from the Minister, please. I chair the cross-party group on care-experienced young people and the cross-party group on children and families. We have a whole host of stakeholders coming to those meetings and I have not heard one voice say that they don't want the mandatory offer. So, please, could the Minister be a little bit more specific on where that voice comes from and why there is no consensus? And even if there's one voice that says, 'No, we don't want it', then surely we look at the best practice and we see very clearly that mandatory offers of return interviews are what help children. And I speak from experience; I've worked in England where it works—where, actually, children welcome the opportunity to have that offer. They may not take it up the first time, but they may take it up further down the road, and that really helps us as practitioners. So, please, I'm really going to be specific here and I'm going to intervene, if I may, Minister, if we don't get clarity on why the Welsh Government isn't enacting that particular recommendation.
May I also draw attention to recommendation 6, that on homeless children in Wales, particularly those who are care experienced? As of January 2024, we saw over 3,000 children under 16 who were living in temporary accommodation here in Wales. We have a direct responsibility to those children and young people. We are their corporate parents. None of us here would want to see those children, our children, living in that accommodation. So, please can we see a better response? So far, the response to this crisis has been inadequate, and I would urge the Welsh Government to consider what more can be done to provide care leavers with a guaranteed safety net in housing beyond the White Paper on homelessness.
We've talked about corporate parenting—thank you for raising that. I want to finally finish on another area that I'm passionate about, and that's separated children. I don't call them 'unaccompanied minors'. Miners are people who've been underground. These are children who are separated from their caregivers, and that is the correct title, in my view: separated children. We need to see a proper system here in Wales, and I'm glad to see that the Government has accepted it in principle. But in Scotland, they have an absolutely fabulous system, which we need to replicate here in Wales. It’s a system of guardianship, which is well funded, which gives those separated children the parent that they are missing. So, I would like to hear from the Welsh Government two specific things: why are we behind Scotland, but most pertinently, why are we behind England in not having statutory return interviews. Diolch yn fawr iawn.
Yn gyntaf, hoffwn dalu teyrnged i'r Cadeirydd, Buffy Williams, am yr ymrwymiad a'r angerdd rydych chi wedi'i ddangos wrth dynnu sylw at y mater penodol hwn. Rydych chi wedi dangos angerdd go iawn ac wedi bod yn sbardun i sicrhau bod lleisiau a phrofiadau'r plant hyn yn cael eu cyflwyno i'r Senedd ac i'r cyhoedd, felly diolch yn fawr iawn.
Mae teitl yr adroddiad, 'Plant sydd ar yr ymylon', yn rhywbeth y dylem fod â chywilydd ohono oherwydd ni ddylai plant fod ar yr ymylon; dylent fod yn blant yng nghanol popeth y meddyliwn amdano ac a wnawn, oherwydd dyma'r rhai mwyaf agored i niwed, y rhai y camfanteisir arnynt fwyaf, y rhai sy'n wynebu'r heriau mwyaf, ac weithiau, rwy'n gwybod, y plant a'r bobl ifanc mwyaf heriol. Mae eu profiadau o dyfu i fyny, o gael ein cam-drin, a'r camfanteisio troseddol arnynt yn rhywbeth y dylem fod â chywilydd mawr ohono yma yng Nghymru.
Fe wnaethoch chi fel Cadeirydd adrodd stori am gyfleoedd a gollwyd, sgyrsiau y methwyd eu cael, ymyriadau na chafodd eu gwneud, penderfyniadau na weithredwyd arnynt. Disgrifiodd un gweithiwr proffesiynol yn yr adroddiad ddarllen am fywydau plant y camfanteisiwyd arnynt yn droseddol fel
'edrych ar ddamwain car gyda'r llun wedi'i arafu'.
Rwy'n gobeithio na fydd yr adroddiad hwn yn gyfle arall a gollwyd i'r grwpiau bregus hyn. Rhaid inni weithredu ar hyn. Rhaid inni weithredu'n bendant a rhaid inni symud ymlaen ar hyn. Felly, rwy'n edrych ymlaen at glywed gan Lywodraeth Cymru pam nad ydynt wedi gweithredu pob un o'r argymhellion yn yr adroddiad hwn.
Hoffwn gyfeirio at ambell un, os caf. Yn gyntaf, un y gwn fod y Cadeirydd wedi tynnu sylw ato, y cyfweliadau dychwelyd adref. Ym mharagraff 62 o'ch adroddiad, rydych chi'n dweud:
'Felly, cawsom ein synnu pan ddywedodd y Gweinidog Plant a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol wrthym nad oes consensws ynghylch a ddylid cael cynnig gorfodol o gyfweliad dychwelyd.'
Rwy'n synnu'n fawr at hynny. Hoffwn glywed mwy gan y Gweinidog, os gwelwch yn dda. Rwy'n cadeirio'r grŵp trawsbleidiol ar bobl ifanc â phrofiad o ofal a'r grŵp trawsbleidiol ar blant a theuluoedd. Mae gennym lu o randdeiliaid yn dod i'r cyfarfodydd hynny ac nid wyf wedi clywed un llais yn dweud nad ydynt eisiau'r cynnig gorfodol. Felly, os gwelwch yn dda, a allai'r Gweinidog fod ychydig yn fwy penodol ynghylch ble y daw'r llais hwnnw ohono a pham nad oes consensws? A hyd yn oed os oes un llais sy'n dweud, 'Na, nid ydym ei eisiau', fe edrychwn ar arfer gorau a gweld yn glir iawn mai cynigion gorfodol o gyfweliadau dychwelyd yw'r hyn sy'n helpu plant. Ac rwy'n siarad o brofiad; rwyf wedi gweithio yn Lloegr lle mae'n gweithio—lle mae plant yn croesawu'r cyfle i gael y cynnig hwnnw. Efallai na fyddant yn manteisio arno y tro cyntaf, ond gallent wneud hynny yn nes ymlaen, ac mae hynny'n ein helpu ni fel ymarferwyr. Felly, os gwelwch yn dda, rwy'n mynd i fod yn benodol yma ac rwy'n mynd i ymyrryd, os caf, Weinidog, os na chawn eglurder ynghylch pam nad yw Llywodraeth Cymru yn gweithredu'r argymhelliad penodol hwnnw.
A gaf i hefyd dynnu sylw at argymhelliad 6, ar blant digartref yng Nghymru, yn enwedig y rhai sydd wedi cael profiad o ofal? Ym mis Ionawr 2024, roedd gennym dros 3,000 o blant dan 16 oed yn byw mewn llety dros dro yma yng Nghymru. Mae gennym gyfrifoldeb uniongyrchol i'r plant a'r bobl ifanc hynny. Ni yw eu rhieni corfforaethol. Ni fyddai'r un ohonom ni yma eisiau gweld y plant hynny, ein plant ni, yn byw mewn llety o'r fath. Felly, a gawn ni weld ymateb gwell? Hyd yn hyn, mae'r ymateb i'r argyfwng wedi bod yn annigonol, ac rwy'n annog Llywodraeth Cymru i ystyried beth arall y gellir ei wneud i ddarparu rhwyd ddiogelwch sicr i rai sy'n gadael gofal ym maes tai y tu hwnt i'r Papur Gwyn ar ddigartrefedd.
Rydym wedi siarad am fod yn rhieni corfforaethol—diolch am godi hynny. Rwyf am orffen ar faes arall yr wyf yn angerddol yn ei gylch, sef plant sydd wedi cael eu gwahanu. Nid wyf yn eu galw'n 'blant ar eu pen eu hunain'. Plant yw'r rhain sydd wedi cael eu gwahanu oddi wrth y rhai sy'n rhoi gofal iddynt, a dyna'r teitl cywir, yn fy marn i: plant sydd wedi cael eu gwahanu. Mae angen inni weld system briodol yma yng Nghymru, ac rwy'n falch o weld bod y Llywodraeth wedi ei dderbyn mewn egwyddor. Ond yn yr Alban, mae ganddynt system hollol wych, y mae angen i ni ei hefelychu yma yng Nghymru. System warcheidiaeth yw hi, sy'n cael ei hariannu'n dda, ac mae'n rhoi i'r plant sydd wedi cael eu gwahanu y rhiant sydd ar goll. Felly, hoffwn glywed dau beth penodol gan Lywodraeth Cymru: pam ein bod ar ei hôl hi o gymharu â'r Alban, ond yn fwyaf perthnasol, pam ein bod ar ei hôl hi o gymharu â Lloegr drwy beidio â chael cyfweliadau dychwelyd statudol? Diolch yn fawr iawn.
Tom Giffard.
Tom Giffard.
Diolch yn fawr iawn, Dirprwy Lywydd. I'm grateful to you for calling me, and I apologise for missing the first minute or so of this debate.
I'm really pleased to be able to speak on this debate and also to have taken part in the Children, Young People and Education Committee as we looked in some great detail into this. I thank Buffy Williams for her work as Chair of that committee. Because I think this was a really impactful report, and I can't think of another report that certainly I have done, in my relatively short time in this Senedd, that has had such a profound impact on me personally, and changed the way I think about an issue, probably, coming out of that investigation, and opened up a whole new world of young people's lived experiences and the things that we can be doing as politicians and Senedd Members in order to better advocate for them. I think the work of the committee and the final report that has come out is a reflection on that work, and on that cross-party work that I think we did. In fact, Buffy and I would often joke, during this inquiry, about how much we seemed to agree on lots of issues, which I think unnerved us both, didn't it, Buffy?
I wanted to focus my remarks on just one or two of the recommendations in the report, owing to the time given. The first was on return ineterviews, which I won't go into in too much detail, because I know other Members have mentioned it in much greater detail than I have, particularly, I think, Jane Dodds, in the previous contribution, who made the point very well in terms of the Welsh Government's response to those return interviews. We certainly didn't hear evidence that the offer of a mandatory return interview for young people who go missing or who leave care, for any reason, shouldn't be an offer on the table. I'm very open-minded to the idea that those views might exist or might sit within the Welsh Government, but I'd be really, really grateful, as Jane Dodds has requested, to hear more about that, to hear those voices. Because they are not voices, views and opinions that we heard as part of this inquiry, and as a consequence, I'm quite disappointed to see the Welsh Government reject that particular recommendation.
I also wanted to focus specifically on recommendation 12, which suggests that the Welsh Government should work alongside health boards, police forces and other relevant statutory and non-statutory agencies to develop a pan-Wales child criminal exploitation risk assessment tool for use by front-line staff, including in healthcare settings, which is something that came up quite a lot during the course of this inquiry. However, the Welsh Government has considered existing mechanisms to be fit for purpose and, therefore, in their view, developing that tool would not be necessary. I think the citizen engagement team facilitated interviews with young people for us, who'd survived criminal exploitation, in order to support the work of the committee's inquiry. One of those interviews that I recall reveals a story of a young person who was put in a hostel after having run away from home due to difficult living circumstances. They detailed what they felt they needed and expressed the support they feel they should've received from social services. However, heartbreakingly, they said they felt that nobody was there for them. They stated, and I quote—and this quote really stuck with me—they had
'all of the responsibilities of being older but none of the freedoms.'
I think it's very difficult to listen to examples like that and stand by the fact and the idea that the existing mechanisms are fit for purpose, when some of those vulnerable young people are clearly slipping through those gaps, are in those margins.
I want to thank the committee for their continued work in this area and implore that the Government continues to review whether those functions are fit for purpose, whether children are falling between the margins and what we can do as legislators to make sure that young people are never in that position again. Diolch yn fawr.
Diolch yn fawr iawn, Ddirprwy Lywydd. Rwy'n ddiolchgar i chi am fy ngalw, ac rwy'n ymddiheuro am fethu munud gyntaf y ddadl hon.
Rwy'n falch iawn o allu siarad yn y ddadl hon a hefyd o fod wedi cymryd rhan yn y Pwyllgor Plant, Pobl Ifanc ac Addysg wrth inni edrych yn fanwl iawn ar hyn. Diolch i Buffy Williams am ei gwaith fel Cadeirydd y pwyllgor hwnnw. Oherwydd rwy'n credu bod hwn yn adroddiad hynod o effeithiol, ac ni allaf feddwl am adroddiad arall a wneuthum i, yn sicr, yn fy amser cymharol fyr yn y Senedd hon, sydd wedi cael effaith mor ddwys arnaf i'n bersonol, ac wedi newid y ffordd rwy'n meddwl am fater, mae'n debyg, wrth orffen yr ymchwiliad hwnnw, ac fe agorodd fyd hollol newydd o brofiadau bywyd pobl ifanc a'r pethau y gallwn eu gwneud fel gwleidyddion ac Aelodau'r Senedd er mwyn eirioli'n well drostynt. Rwy'n credu bod gwaith y pwyllgor a'r adroddiad terfynol a ddeilliodd ohono yn adlewyrchiad o'r gwaith hwnnw, a'r gwaith trawsbleidiol a wnaethom. Mewn gwirionedd, byddai Buffy a minnau'n aml yn cellwair, yn ystod yr ymchwiliad hwn, cymaint yr oeddem i'n gweld yn cytuno ar lawer o faterion, rhywbeth a oedd yn destun cryn anesmwythder i'r ddau ohonom, onid oedd, Buffy?
Roeddwn eisiau canolbwyntio fy sylwadau ar un neu ddau o'r argymhellion yn yr adroddiad, gan fod amser yn brin. Roedd y cyntaf ar gyfweliadau dychwelyd, nad af i mewn iddynt mewn gormod o fanylder, oherwydd gwn fod Aelodau eraill wedi crybwyll hyn yn llawer mwy manwl na fi, yn enwedig Jane Dodds, yn y cyfraniad blaenorol, a wnaeth y pwynt yn dda iawn ynghylch ymateb Llywodraeth Cymru i'r cyfweliadau dychwelyd hynny. Yn sicr, ni chlywsom dystiolaeth na ddylai'r cynnig o gyfweliad dychwelyd gorfodol i bobl ifanc sy'n mynd ar goll neu sy'n gadael gofal am unrhyw reswm fod yn gynnig ar y bwrdd. Mae gennyf feddwl agored iawn ynghylch y syniad y gallai'r safbwyntiau hynny fodoli yn Llywodraeth Cymru, ond fel y gofynnodd Jane Dodds, hoffwn yn fawr glywed mwy am hynny, a chlywed y lleisiau hynny. Oherwydd nid ydynt yn lleisiau, safbwyntiau a barn a glywsom yn rhan o'r ymchwiliad hwn, ac o ganlyniad, rwy'n eithaf siomedig o weld Llywodraeth Cymru yn gwrthod yr argymhelliad penodol hwnnw.
Roeddwn eisiau canolbwyntio'n benodol hefyd ar argymhelliad 12, sy'n awgrymu y dylai Llywodraeth Cymru weithio ochr yn ochr â byrddau iechyd, heddluoedd ac asiantaethau statudol ac anstatudol perthnasol eraill i ddatblygu offeryn asesu risg camfanteisio troseddol ar blant Cymru i'w ddefnyddio gan staff y rheng flaen, gan gynnwys mewn lleoliadau gofal iechyd, sy'n rhywbeth a gododd gryn dipyn yn ystod yr ymchwiliad hwn. Fodd bynnag, mae Llywodraeth Cymru wedi ystyried bod mecanweithiau presennol yn addas at y diben ac felly, yn eu barn hwy, ni fyddai angen datblygu'r offeryn hwnnw. Rwy'n credu bod y tîm cysylltu â dinasyddion wedi hwyluso cyfweliadau â phobl ifanc ar ein cyfer, pobl ifanc a oedd wedi goroesi camfanteisio troseddol, er mwyn cefnogi gwaith ymchwiliad y pwyllgor. Mae un o'r cyfweliadau hynny rwy'n eu cofio'n datgelu stori am unigolyn ifanc a gafodd eu rhoi mewn hostel ar ôl rhedeg i ffwrdd oherwydd amgylchiadau byw anodd. Fe wnaethant fanylu ar yr hyn y teimlent fod ei angen arnynt a mynegi'r gefnogaeth y teimlant y dylent fod wedi'i chael gan y gwasanaethau cymdeithasol. Fodd bynnag, yn dorcalonnus, roeddent yn dweud eu bod yn teimlo nad oedd neb yno ar eu cyfer. Roeddent yn dweud—ac fe wnaeth y dyfyniad hwn aros gyda mi—fod ganddynt
'holl gyfrifoldebau bod yn hŷn a dim o'r rhyddid.'
Rwy'n credu ei bod yn anodd iawn gwrando ar enghreifftiau felly a dal i gredu yn y syniad fod y mecanweithiau presennol yn addas i'r diben, pan fo rhai o'r bobl ifanc bregus hynny'n amlwg yn llithro drwy'r bylchau, ac ar yr ymylon.
Hoffwn ddiolch i'r pwyllgor am eu gwaith parhaus yn y maes hwn ac erfyn ar y Llywodraeth i barhau i adolygu a yw'r swyddogaethau hynny'n addas i'r diben, a yw plant yn syrthio drwy'r bylchau ar yr ymylon a'r hyn y gallwn ei wneud fel deddfwyr i sicrhau nad yw pobl ifanc byth yn y sefyllfa honno eto. Diolch yn fawr.
Hoffwn i ddiolch i'r pwyllgor am yr adroddiad pwysig yma ac i Jane Dodds am y gwaith y mae hi'n ei wneud yn y grwpiau trawsbleidiol dwi'n aelod ohonyn nhw. Mae'r gwaith yn hollbwysig. Diolch, Jane, am gadw ffocws ar y pwnc yma yn eich gwaith yn y Senedd.
I would like to thank the committee for this important report and Jane Dodds for the work that she does in the cross-party groups that I'm a member of. That work is crucially important. Thank you, Jane, for retaining a focus on this issue in your Senedd work.
I wanted to contribute to this debate as I've spoken many times on the need for a consistency of approach when it comes to vulnerable children to ensure more effective preventative measures when it comes to children who are at risk.
I would like to focus firstly on the highlighting in the report of the urgent need for a consistent national approach to tackling child criminal exploitation. Currently, responses vary. As we've heard, across local authorities, there's no standardised risk assessment or co-ordinated strategy and many children are treated as criminals rather than victims. Without sufficient early intervention, they, of course, remain at risk. A national framework would improve information sharing—as we heard from Cefin Campbell, that multi-agency collaboration, data collection—ensuring better protection and support. Of course, while criminal justice, unfortunately, is not devolved, the Welsh Government could strengthen safeguarding policies and must drive a more unified response.
In response to the committee’s recommendation on a strategy for tackling child criminal exploitation, the Welsh Government says that it does
'not consider the development of a national strategy essential to achieve greater consistency in practice.'
Could you elaborate, Minister, please, on the reasons why, and outline what other approaches, therefore, are being taken to improve consistency in practice, together with the Home Office?
I'd like to turn to recommendations 6 and 7, as homelessness among care-experienced young people is another pressing issue that the report rightly addresses. It's absolutely unacceptable that one in three care leavers in Wales face homelessness within two years. The committee's report outlines how plans to abolish the priority need test could further increase their vulnerability.
While greater equality in homelessness support is the Government's goal, in its evidence to the committee, the National Youth Advocacy Service rightly points out that removing priority need status without proper safeguards risks leaving more young people without stable housing, due, of course, to the chronic shortage of affordable and suitable housing in Wales. Plaid Cymru, therefore, supports the committee's call to maintain priority need status and introduce a mandatory housing preference for care-experienced individuals.
Although the Government has accepted the committee's recommendations, it's not clear if this acceptance is a commitment to maintaining priority need status for care leavers in Wales. So, would the Minister commit to retaining that assessment for care leavers who are at risk of or currently experiencing homelessness, and could you provide us with an update on the timeline for the Bill that follows from the White Paper to end youth homelessness in October 2023?
I would also like to take this opportunity to remind the Welsh Government that making experience of care a protected characteristic was one of the calls of the Children, Young People and Education Committee's report on radical reform of services for care-experienced children, 'If not now, then when?', which was published when I was a member of the committee.
The committee called on the Welsh Government to lobby the UK Government at the time to amend section 4 the Equality Act 2010 to add care experience as a protected characteristic; it was rejected then. Would the Minister let us know whether she would reassess this, especially in the context of this report, and especially given the former Deputy Minister, while stating that the Welsh Government wouldn't be able to change the law as it was reserved, nevertheless told us at the time she was interested in the committee's view on this matter and would, and I quote,
'like to look at it further'?
Has it been looked at further now that we have two Labour Governments in power? Will this conversation be happening? Diolch.
Roeddwn eisiau cyfrannu at y ddadl hon gan fy mod wedi siarad droeon am yr angen am ddull cyson o weithredu ar gyfer plant sy'n agored i niwed i sicrhau mesurau ataliol mwy effeithiol ar gyfer plant sydd mewn perygl.
Hoffwn ganolbwyntio'n gyntaf ar y modd y mae'r adroddiad yn tynnu sylw at yr angen brys am ddull cenedlaethol cyson o fynd i'r afael â chamfanteisio troseddol ar blant. Ar hyn o bryd, mae'r ymatebion yn amrywio. Fel y clywsom, ar draws awdurdodau lleol, nid oes asesiad risg safonol na strategaeth gydlynol ac mae llawer o blant yn cael eu trin fel troseddwyr yn hytrach na dioddefwyr. Heb ddigon o ymyrraeth gynnar, maent yn parhau i fod mewn perygl. Byddai fframwaith cenedlaethol yn gwella prosesau rhannu gwybodaeth—fel y clywsom gan Cefin Campbell, cydweithio amlasiantaethol, casglu data—gan sicrhau gwell diogelwch a chefnogaeth. Wrth gwrs, er nad yw cyfiawnder troseddol wedi'i ddatganoli, yn anffodus, gallai Llywodraeth Cymru gryfhau polisïau diogelu a sbarduno ymateb mwy unedig.
Mewn ymateb i argymhelliad y pwyllgor ar strategaeth ar gyfer mynd i'r afael â chamfanteisio troseddol ar blant, mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn dweud:
'Nid ydym yn ystyried ei bod yn hanfodol datblygu strategaeth genedlaethol i sicrhau mwy o gysondeb yn ymarferol.'
A wnewch chi ymhelaethu ar y rhesymau pam, Weinidog, ac amlinellu pa ddulliau eraill sy'n cael eu gweithredu felly i wella cysondeb ymarfer, gyda'r Swyddfa Gartref?
Hoffwn droi at argymhellion 6 a 7, gan fod digartrefedd ymhlith pobl ifanc â phrofiad o ofal yn fater pwysig arall y mae'r adroddiad yn mynd i'r afael ag ef, a hynny'n briodol. Mae'n gwbl annerbyniol fod un o bob tri unigolyn sy'n gadael gofal yng Nghymru yn wynebu digartrefedd o fewn dwy flynedd. Mae adroddiad y pwyllgor yn amlinellu sut y gallai cynlluniau i ddileu'r prawf angen blaenoriaethol eu gwneud yn fwy agored i niwed.
Er mai mwy o gydraddoldeb mewn cymorth digartrefedd yw nod y Llywodraeth, yn ei dystiolaeth i'r pwyllgor, mae'r Gwasanaeth Eiriolaeth Ieuenctid Cenedlaethol yn nodi'n briodol fod cael gwared ar statws angen blaenoriaethol heb fesurau diogelu priodol yn creu risg o adael mwy o bobl ifanc heb ddarpariaeth dai sefydlog, yn deillio, wrth gwrs, o'r prinder cronig o dai fforddiadwy ac addas yng Nghymru. Mae Plaid Cymru, felly, yn cefnogi galwad y pwyllgor i gynnal statws angen blaenoriaethol a chyflwyno dewis tai gorfodol i unigolion â phrofiad o ofal.
Er bod y Llywodraeth wedi derbyn argymhellion y pwyllgor, nid yw'n glir a yw'r derbyniad hwn yn ymrwymiad i gynnal statws angen blaenoriaethol i rai sy'n gadael gofal yng Nghymru. Felly, a wnaiff y Gweinidog ymrwymo i gadw'r asesiad ar gyfer pobl sy'n gadael gofal sy'n wynebu risg o ddigartrefedd neu sy'n profi digartrefedd ar hyn o bryd, ac a allech chi roi'r wybodaeth ddiweddaraf i ni am y llinell amser ar gyfer y Bil sy'n dilyn o'r Papur Gwyn i roi diwedd ar ddigartrefedd ymhlith ieuenctid ym mis Hydref 2023?
Hoffwn achub ar y cyfle hefyd i atgoffa Llywodraeth Cymru fod gwneud profiad o ofal yn nodwedd warchodedig yn un o alwadau adroddiad y Pwyllgor Plant, Pobl Ifanc ac Addysg ar ddiwygio radical i wasanaethau ar gyfer plant â phrofiad o ofal, 'Os nad nawr, pryd?', a gyhoeddwyd pan oeddwn yn aelod o'r pwyllgor.
Galwodd y pwyllgor ar Lywodraeth Cymru i lobïo Llywodraeth y DU ar y pryd i ddiwygio adran 4 Deddf Cydraddoldeb 2010 i ychwanegu profiad o ofal fel nodwedd warchodedig; cafodd ei wrthod bryd hynny. A wnaiff y Gweinidog roi gwybod i ni a fyddai'n ailasesu hyn, yn enwedig yng nghyd-destun yr adroddiad hwn, ac yn enwedig o ystyried bod y cyn Ddirprwy Weinidog, er yn datgan na fyddai Llywodraeth Cymru yn gallu newid y gyfraith gan ei fod yn fater a gadwyd yn ôl, wedi dweud wrthym ar y pryd fod ganddi ddiddordeb ym marn y pwyllgor ar y mater hwn ac y byddai,
'yn hoffi edrych arno ymhellach'?
A edrychwyd arno ymhellach, gan fod gennym ddwy Lywodraeth Lafur mewn grym erbyn hyn? A fydd y sgwrs hon yn digwydd? Diolch.
Galwaf ar y Gweinidog Plant a Gofal Cymdeithasol, Dawn Bowden.
I call on the Minister for Children and Social Care, Dawn Bowden.

Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd. Can I start by saying I very much welcome this afternoon's debate? It's a hugely important debate, and I really want to thank everyone for their insightful contributions. I think in the time allocated to me I'm not going to be able to respond to all of the points that were raised. We have submitted a detailed response to the committee's recommendations, but I am, of course, always available to have further conversations with the committee and the Chair of the committee about any of the recommendations.
We have accepted 21 out of the 23, and a number of those are accepted in principle, so I understand that there is significant discussion that still needs to go on between myself and the committee about how we develop where we have accepted in principle, because a lot of those are pieces of work that are ongoing but still need further development. But I absolutely want to extend my gratitude to the members of the Children, Young People and Education Committee for their dedicated work on these crucial topics, and particularly thanks to you, Chair, for your tenacious approach to the inquiry.
But importantly, I also want to thank those, as others have said, who shared their experiences and provided evidence to the committee. These are people, particularly children and young people, that I come across pretty much every day in the role that I undertake as Minister for Children and Social Care, and their evidence is always difficult to listen to, but it has shaped both the committee's recommendations and the Welsh Government's response to it, so I do very much appreciate and welcome the evidence and the input that those people have made to this inquiry.
The committee's report absolutely aligns to our ambitions to bring meaningful change to the lives of children on the margins, including those who go missing from home or care, and those vulnerable to criminal and sexual exploitation. The committee's report has offered a further opportunity to reflect on and review the work that's already been accomplished in this area, and assist us in concentrating on our future objectives. Our aim is to ensure that the measures that we have achieved, and our plans moving forward, translate into tangible and concrete improvements in the lives of vulnerable children.
As I've said, we accepted 21 of the 23 recommendations, either in whole or in principle, and our response to the recommendations of the 'Children on the margins' report outlines what has been achieved so far, alongside our plans to advance the important area of work. And all of that, as I've said, is detailed in our response to the committee. But they do include developing guidance for practitioners to guide their work with children who go missing from home or care and are sexually and/or criminally exploited; developing online criminal exploitation training for practitioners; the launching of the single unified safeguarding review and repository; revising the guidance on safeguarding children who are trafficked and/or criminally exploited—and we continue to engage with the Home Office on our approach to this; and promoting the use of the complex safeguarding Wales practitioner toolkit via the Wales safeguarding procedures website.
As always, working in partnership with the sector is key to driving forward meaningful change, so we have established a safeguarding children and young people who are reported missing from home or care stakeholder steering group, which comprises key representatives dedicated to protecting vulnerable children. The steering group has a clear mission ahead, driven by insights from the research, including the committee's report. Their objectives include building a comprehensive evidence base to underpin transformative recommendations and weaving together networks from across Wales to form a community of practice, focused on the welfare of missing children and young people.
I just want to refer to recommendation 3 and the point that Jane Dodds raised that we had rejected recommendation 3. In fact, we haven't; we have accepted recommendation 3 in principle. What I was saying was about how the stakeholder group has been set up to look at this. So, the group will be mapping current funding sources for services providing the return-to-home interviews following a young person’s missing episode, and that group will use this information to consider how these may be commissioned in the future, maximising the resources that we can access, because there is already a statutory right to a return-to-home interview under the Social Services and Well-being (Wales) Act 2014. So, this is about moving beyond that into how we make sure that it happens more effectively in practice. Jane.
Diolch, Ddirprwy Lywydd. A gaf i ddechrau drwy ddweud fy mod yn croesawu'r ddadl y prynhawn yma? Mae'n ddadl hynod bwysig, ac rwyf eisiau diolch i bawb am eu cyfraniadau craff. Yn yr amser a neilltuwyd i mi nid wyf yn credu y byddaf yn gallu ymateb i'r holl bwyntiau a godwyd. Rydym wedi cyflwyno ymateb manwl i argymhellion y pwyllgor, ond rwyf bob amser ar gael i gael sgyrsiau pellach gyda'r pwyllgor a Chadeirydd y pwyllgor am unrhyw un o'r argymhellion.
Rydym wedi derbyn 21 allan o'r 23, ac mae nifer o'r rheini'n cael eu derbyn mewn egwyddor, felly rwy'n deall bod yna drafodaeth sylweddol y mae angen iddi ddigwydd rhyngof i a'r pwyllgor ynglŷn â sut yr awn ati i ddatblygu lle rydym wedi derbyn mewn egwyddor, oherwydd mae llawer o'r rheini'n waith sy'n mynd rhagddo ond sydd angen ei ddatblygu ymhellach. Ond hoffwn ddiolch yn fawr iawn i aelodau'r Pwyllgor Plant, Pobl Ifanc ac Addysg am eu gwaith ymroddedig ar y pynciau hollbwysig hyn, ac yn arbennig, diolch i chi, Gadeirydd, am eich dull cadarn o gyflawni'r ymchwiliad.
Ond yn bwysig, fel y dywedodd eraill, hoffwn ddiolch hefyd i'r rheini a rannodd eu profiadau a rhoi tystiolaeth i'r pwyllgor. Dyma bobl, yn enwedig y plant a'r bobl ifanc, y deuaf ar eu traws bron bob dydd yn y rôl rwy'n ei chyflawni fel Gweinidog Plant a Gofal Cymdeithasol, ac mae eu tystiolaeth bob amser yn anodd gwrando arni, ond mae wedi siapio argymhellion y pwyllgor ac ymateb Llywodraeth Cymru iddynt, felly rwy'n gwerthfawrogi ac yn croesawu'r dystiolaeth a'r mewnbwn y mae'r bobl hyn wedi'u rhoi i'r ymchwiliad hwn.
Mae adroddiad y pwyllgor yn cyd-fynd yn llwyr â'n huchelgeisiau i ddod â newid ystyrlon i fywydau plant ar yr ymylon, gan gynnwys y rhai sy'n mynd ar goll o gartref neu ofal, a'r rhai sy'n agored i gamfanteisio troseddol a rhywiol. Mae adroddiad y pwyllgor wedi cynnig cyfle pellach i ystyried ac adolygu'r gwaith sydd eisoes wedi'i gyflawni yn y maes hwn, a'n cynorthwyo i ganolbwyntio ar ein hamcanion yn y dyfodol. Ein nod yw sicrhau bod y mesurau a gyflawnwyd gennym, a'n cynlluniau wrth symud ymlaen, yn trosi'n welliannau pendant a diriaethol ym mywydau plant agored i niwed.
Fel y dywedais, derbyniwyd 21 o'r 23 o argymhellion, naill ai'n gyfan gwbl neu mewn egwyddor, ac mae ein hymateb i argymhellion adroddiad 'Plant sydd ar yr ymylon' yn amlinellu'r hyn a gyflawnwyd hyd yma, ochr yn ochr â'n cynlluniau i ddatblygu'r maes gwaith pwysig. A manylir ar hynny i gyd, fel y dywedais, yn ein hymateb i'r pwyllgor. Ond maent yn cynnwys datblygu canllawiau i ymarferwyr i lywio eu gwaith gyda phlant sy'n mynd ar goll o gartref neu ofal ac y camfanteisir arnnt yn rhywiol a/neu'n droseddol; datblygu hyfforddiant camfanteisio troseddol ar-lein i ymarferwyr; lansio'r storfa ddiogelu a'r adolygiad diogelu unedig sengl; adolygu'r canllawiau ar ddiogelu plant sy'n cael eu masnachu a/neu sy'n destun camfanteisio troseddol—ac rydym yn parhau i ymgysylltu â'r Swyddfa Gartref ar ein dull o ymdrin â hyn; a hyrwyddo'r defnydd o becyn cymorth diogelu cymhleth i ymarferwyr drwy wefan gweithdrefnau diogelu Cymru.
Fel bob amser, mae gweithio mewn partneriaeth â'r sector yn allweddol i sbarduno newid ystyrlon, felly rydym wedi sefydlu grŵp llywio rhanddeiliaid diogelu plant a phobl ifanc yr adroddir eu bod ar goll o gartref neu ofal, sy'n cynnwys cynrychiolwyr allweddol sy'n ymroddedig i ddiogelu plant agored i niwed. Mae gan y grŵp llywio genhadaeth glir, wedi'i yrru gan fewnwelediadau o'r ymchwil, gan gynnwys adroddiad y pwyllgor. Mae eu hamcanion yn cynnwys adeiladu sylfaen dystiolaeth gynhwysfawr i fod yn sail i argymhellion trawsnewidiol a gweu rhwydweithiau o bob rhan o Gymru at ei gilydd i ffurfio cymuned o ymarfer, i ganolbwyntio ar les plant a phobl ifanc sydd ar goll.
Rwyf am gyfeirio at argymhelliad 3 a'r pwynt a gododd Jane Dodds ein bod wedi gwrthod argymhelliad 3. Mewn gwirionedd, nid ydym wedi ei wrthod; rydym wedi derbyn argymhelliad 3 mewn egwyddor. Roeddwn i'n sôn sut y mae'r grŵp rhanddeiliaid wedi'i sefydlu i edrych ar hyn. Felly, bydd y grŵp yn mapio ffynonellau ariannu cyfredol ar gyfer gwasanaethau sy'n darparu'r cyfweliadau dychwelyd adref yn dilyn cyfnod yr unigolyn ifanc o fod ar goll, a bydd y grŵp hwnnw'n defnyddio'r wybodaeth hon i ystyried sut y gellir comisiynu'r rhain yn y dyfodol, gan wneud y mwyaf o'r adnoddau y gallwn eu cyrchu, oherwydd mae hawl statudol eisoes i gyfweliad dychwelyd adref o dan Ddeddf Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol a Llesiant (Cymru) 2014. Felly, mae hyn yn ymwneud â symud y tu hwnt i hynny i weld sut y gallwn sicrhau ei fod yn digwydd yn fwy effeithiol yn ymarferol. Jane.
Thank you for taking my intervention, and it's not a surprise that I just wanted to focus in on the return interviews and the statutory offer. I can see that you've accepted in principle, but that is not the same as accept. And whilst you have this working group who are looking at the evidence, surely the evidence is there. I get that the working groups are important in some areas, but, actually, the evidence is clear, both from the report and the experience in a much bigger country, which is England. The longer we wait, the more children go missing and don't have this service. So, could I ask you, very clearly, to tell us what your timelines are in terms of expectations for this group, both for reporting back and more importantly in terms of implementation? Diolch yn fawr iawn.
Diolch am dderbyn fy ymyriad, ac nid yw’n syndod fy mod am ganolbwyntio ar y cyfweliadau dychwelyd a’r cynnig statudol. Gallaf weld eich bod wedi derbyn mewn egwyddor, ond nid yw hynny yr un peth â derbyn. Ac er bod gennych y gweithgor sy'n edrych ar y dystiolaeth, does bosibl nad yw'r dystiolaeth yno. Rwy'n deall bod y gweithgorau’n bwysig mewn rhai ardaloedd, ond mewn gwirionedd, mae’r dystiolaeth yn glir, o’r adroddiad ac o’r profiad mewn gwlad fwy o lawer, sef Lloegr. Po hiraf yr arhoswn, y mwyaf o blant sy'n mynd ar goll a heb y gwasanaeth hwn. Felly, a gaf i ofyn i chi, yn glir iawn, i ddweud wrthym beth yw eich llinellau amser o ran disgwyliadau ar gyfer y grŵp hwn, ar gyfer adrodd yn ôl, ac yn bwysicach fyth, o ran gweithredu? Diolch yn fawr iawn.
Thank you for that, Jane, and I understand the important point that you are making. I would reiterate, we do have a statutory obligation or statutory offer to children and young people who go missing, to have a return home interview. This group is looking at how we can more effectively progress that. That was the point I was trying to make.
Several people have highlighted the fact that there's more work to be done around data collection. And so whilst I understand the urgency and the need for us to move on with this, we do have to map the landscape of that data. Everybody today has been making the point that we're not doing enough around data collection. We have to make sure that what we're doing is properly informed, and that's what this group is going to be doing. They'll be mapping the landscape of data collection related to missing children and young people, identifying the key data holders and reporting systems to better use that information to plan and to deliver those services.
They're reviewing and refining the all-Wales safeguarding practice guidance and the cross-border guidance on children who go missing from care, and the updated documents in the guidance on conducting return home interviews will be clarifying those definitions and processes. I can't give you an absolutely timeline on that yet, but as soon as I have a clearer idea of when the work of this stakeholder group will be completed, I will certainly let the Senedd know. But ultimately, they will be making recommendations to ensure that every child and young person in Wales receives an equitable response when they go missing from home or from care.
And in parallel with that, we will soon be consulting on our national 10-year strategy for preventing and responding to child sexual abuse, covering all types of sexual harm, including exploitation. There are four strands to that strategy: prevention; protection; supporting children, young people and their families; and supporting adult survivors. So, we continue to work across Welsh Government and with the UK Government to safeguard children from criminal and sexual exploitation.
Our response to the recommendations underscores our commitment to addressing these issues, and improving outcomes for children and young people. By building on these efforts, we can create a safer, more supportive environment for all children in Wales. But in conclusion, I know that we all want the best for every child and young person in Wales, and I remain absolutely steadfast in supporting this vital work, and will continue to champion our shared vision for a better future for all children in Wales. Diolch yn fawr.
Diolch, Jane, ac rwy'n deall y pwynt pwysig a wnewch. Rwy'n ailadrodd, mae gennym rwymedigaeth statudol neu gynnig statudol i blant a phobl ifanc sy'n mynd ar goll, i gael cyfweliad dychwelyd adref. Mae’r grŵp hwn yn edrych ar sut y gallwn ddatblygu hynny’n fwy effeithiol. Dyna’r pwynt roeddwn yn ceisio’i wneud.
Mae nifer o bobl wedi tynnu sylw at y ffaith bod mwy o waith i'w wneud ar gasglu data. Ac felly, er fy mod yn deall y brys a'r angen inni symud ymlaen gyda hyn, mae'n rhaid inni fapio tirwedd y data hwnnw. Mae pawb heddiw wedi bod yn gwneud y pwynt nad ydym yn gwneud digon o gasglu data. Mae'n rhaid inni sicrhau bod yr hyn a wnawn yn cael ei lywio'n briodol, a dyna mae'r grŵp hwn yn mynd i'w wneud. Byddant yn mapio tirwedd casglu data'n ymwneud â phlant a phobl ifanc sydd ar goll, gan nodi'r deiliaid data allweddol a systemau adrodd i ddefnyddio'r wybodaeth honno'n well i gynllunio ac i ddarparu'r gwasanaethau hynny.
Maent yn adolygu ac yn mireinio canllawiau ymarfer diogelu Cymru gyfan a'r canllawiau trawsffiniol ar blant sy'n mynd ar goll o ofal, a bydd y dogfennau wedi'u diweddaru yn y canllawiau ar gynnal cyfweliadau dychwelyd adref yn egluro'r diffiniadau a'r prosesau hynny. Ni allaf roi amserlen bendant i chi ar hynny eto, ond cyn gynted ag y bydd gennyf syniad cliriach o ba bryd y bydd gwaith y grŵp rhanddeiliaid hwn wedi’i gwblhau, byddaf yn sicr yn rhoi gwybod i’r Senedd. Ond yn y pen draw, byddant yn gwneud argymhellion i sicrhau bod pob plentyn ac unigolyn ifanc yng Nghymru yn cael ymateb teg pan fyddant yn mynd ar goll o gartref neu o ofal.
Ac ochr yn ochr â hynny, byddwn yn ymgynghori cyn bo hir ar ein strategaeth genedlaethol 10 mlynedd ar gyfer atal ac ymateb i gam-drin plant yn rhywiol, gan gwmpasu pob math o niwed rhywiol, gan gynnwys camfanteisio. Mae pedwar edefyn i'r strategaeth honno: atal; diogelu; cefnogi plant, pobl ifanc a'u teuluoedd; a chefnogi oedolion sy'n oroeswyr. Felly, rydym yn parhau i weithio ar draws Llywodraeth Cymru a chyda Llywodraeth y DU i ddiogelu plant rhag camfanteisio troseddol a rhywiol.
Mae ein hymateb i’r argymhellion yn tanlinellu ein hymrwymiad i fynd i’r afael â’r materion hyn, a gwella canlyniadau i blant a phobl ifanc. Drwy adeiladu ar yr ymdrechion hyn, gallwn greu amgylchedd mwy diogel, mwy cefnogol i holl blant Cymru. Ond i gloi, gwn fod pob un ohonom am sicrhau'r gorau i bob plentyn ac unigolyn ifanc yng Nghymru, ac rwy’n parhau i fod yn gwbl ddiwyro wrth gefnogi’r gwaith hanfodol hwn, a byddaf yn parhau i hyrwyddo ein gweledigaeth gyffredin o ddyfodol gwell i holl blant Cymru. Diolch yn fawr.
Galwaf ar Gadeirydd y pwyllgor i ymateb i'r ddadl.
I call on the Chair of the committee to reply to the debate.
I'd like to thank all Members for their contributions today. Joel and Cefin both spoke about data. In our committee, we're always, always looking for the data. Sadly, it's not always available, and we know just how important data sharing is for children on the margins. We can't let any child slip through the net because the correct information is not available. That is just not right.
Tom, I think this inquiry will stay with us well beyond our time in the Senedd, and we can agree on just one more thing: we need to do more. Jane highlighted missed opportunities; hopefully our report will help to end those missed opportunities. And Sioned—Sioned always speaks so, so passionately—thank you so much for your powerful contribution today. I know that when we spent time on the Children, Young People and Education Committee together, a bit like myself and Tom, we agreed on more than we didn't agree on, where things like this were concerned, and it's so important that we all work together to make these positive changes. I think we can all agree on that.
Not every child who goes missing is harmed, and not every missing episode is an indicator of abuse. When we talk about children who are criminally exploited, we are talking about a relatively small number of children, but we should not underestimate the devastating and overwhelming impact on the lives of those children who are exploited or abused. Children who are criminally exploited often suffer terrible physical and mental abuse. Some children die as a result of their exploitation. For many survivors, the trauma of their abuse will change their lives forever. Even if we try and set the emotional impact to one side, many young people who escape their exploiters will hold criminal records. This makes it so much harder for them to find work and move on with their lives. Neither should we underestimate the complexity of some of the criminal networks that are responsible for this child abuse. Many of the gangs are sophisticated and professional, and will target and groom at-risk children before trapping them in criminal activities. This is a complex, high-risk and cross-border area of policy that requires proper attention from Governments across the UK.
There are some signs that child criminal exploitation is beginning to receive the political attention it deserves at UK level. The forthcoming statutory definition of criminal exploitation is an important development. We heard this definition should support law enforcement agencies to prosecute exploiters. We also recognise that progress is being made in some areas by this Welsh Government—the single unified safeguarding reviews, for example, and the potential for the children missing education database—but what matters most to individual children and their families is the availability and quality of the protection and support they receive. And all too often, we heard that that support isn't nearly as consistent as it should be.
So, we urge the Welsh Government to harness the new UK-wide momentum to drive improvements in the response to missing and criminalised children across Wales, and we urge parties across the Senedd to support that drive, to ensure that agencies are listening to children and families and then working together effectively; to ensure that agencies responsible for safeguarding children take concrete steps to improve practice when things go wrong and are held to account for doing so; to ensure that front-line professionals understand the key risk factors and signs of criminal exploitation, and how and when to respond. Because the implications of getting this wrong, for our most vulnerable children, are unthinkable. Diolch.
Hoffwn ddiolch i’r holl Aelodau am eu cyfraniadau heddiw. Soniodd Joel a Cefin am ddata. Yn ein pwyllgor, rydym bob amser, bob amser, yn chwilio am y data. Yn anffodus, nid yw bob amser ar gael, a gwyddom yn iawn pa mor bwysig yw rhannu data i blant ar yr ymylon. Ni allwn adael i unrhyw blentyn lithro drwy'r rhwyd am nad yw'r wybodaeth gywir ar gael. Nid yw hynny'n iawn.
Tom, rwy'n credu y bydd yr ymchwiliad hwn yn aros gyda ni ymhell y tu hwnt i’n cyfnod yn y Senedd, a gallwn gytuno ar un peth arall: mae angen inni wneud mwy. Tynnodd Jane sylw at gyfleoedd a gollwyd; gobeithio y bydd ein hadroddiad yn helpu i roi diwedd ar golli cyfleoedd. A Sioned—mae Sioned bob amser yn siarad mor angerddol—diolch am eich cyfraniad pwerus heddiw. Pan oeddem ar y Pwyllgor Plant, Pobl Ifanc ac Addysg gyda’n gilydd, yn debyg i mi a Tom, rwy'n gwybod ein bod yn cytuno ar fwy nag yr oeddem yn anghytuno arnynt gyda'r pethau hyn, ac mae mor bwysig fod pob un ohonom yn gweithio gyda’n gilydd i wneud y newidiadau cadarnhaol hyn. Rwy'n credu y gall pob un ohonom gytuno ar hynny.
Nid yw pob plentyn sy'n mynd ar goll yn cael eu niweidio, ac nid yw pob cyfnod o fod ar goll yn arwydd o gamdriniaeth. Pan fyddwn yn sôn am blant y camfanteisir arnynt yn droseddol, rydym yn sôn am nifer cymharol fach o blant, ond ni ddylem ddiystyru'r effaith ddinistriol a llethol ar fywydau’r plant y camfanteisir arnynt neu sy'n cael eu cam-drin. Mae plant y camfanteisir arnynt yn droseddol yn aml yn dioddef cam-drin corfforol a meddyliol ofnadwy. Mae rhai plant yn marw o ganlyniad i'r camfanteisio arnynt. I lawer o oroeswyr, bydd trawma eu camdriniaeth yn newid eu bywydau am byth. Hyd yn oed os ceisiwn edrych heibio i'r effaith emosiynol, bydd cofnod troseddol gan lawer o bobl ifanc sy’n dianc rhag y rheini sy’n camfanteisio arnynt. Mae hyn yn ei gwneud yn llawer anos iddynt ddod o hyd i waith a symud ymlaen â'u bywydau. Ni ddylem ychwaith ddiystyru cymhlethdod rhai o'r rhwydweithiau troseddol sy'n gyfrifol am gam-drin y plant hyn. Mae llawer o’r gangiau'n soffistigedig ac yn broffesiynol, a byddant yn targedu ac yn meithrin perthynas amhriodol â phlant sydd mewn perygl, cyn eu caethiwo mewn gweithgareddau troseddol. Mae hwn yn faes polisi cymhleth, risg uchel a thrawsffiniol y mae angen iddo gael sylw priodol gan Lywodraethau ledled y DU.
Mae rhai arwyddion fod camfanteisio troseddol ar blant yn dechrau cael y sylw gwleidyddol y mae’n ei haeddu ar lefel y DU. Mae'r diffiniad statudol o gamfanteisio troseddol sydd ar y ffordd yn ddatblygiad pwysig. Clywsom y dylai’r diffiniad hwn gynorthwyo asiantaethau gorfodi’r gyfraith i erlyn pobl sy'n camfanteisio. Rydym hefyd yn cydnabod bod cynnydd yn cael ei wneud mewn rhai meysydd gan Lywodraeth Cymru—yr adolygiadau diogelu unedig sengl, er enghraifft, a’r potensial ar gyfer y gronfa ddata plant sy’n colli addysg—ond yr hyn sydd bwysicaf i blant unigol a’u teuluoedd yw argaeledd ac ansawdd y diogelwch a’r cymorth a gânt. Ac yn rhy aml o lawer, clywsom nad yw'r cymorth hwnnw mor gyson ag y dylai fod o bell ffordd.
Felly, rydym yn annog Llywodraeth Cymru i harneisio'r momentwm newydd a geir ledled y DU i ysgogi gwelliannau yn yr ymateb i blant sydd ar goll a phlant sy'n cael eu troseddoli ledled Cymru, ac rydym yn annog pleidiau ar draws y Senedd i gefnogi’r ymgyrch honno, i sicrhau bod asiantaethau’n gwrando ar blant a theuluoedd ac yna’n cydweithio’n effeithiol; sicrhau bod asiantaethau sy'n gyfrifol am ddiogelu plant yn cymryd camau pendant i wella arferion pan fydd pethau'n mynd o chwith ac yn cael eu dwyn i gyfrif am wneud hynny; sicrhau bod gweithwyr proffesiynol rheng flaen yn deall y ffactorau risg allweddol a'r arwyddion o gamfanteisio troseddol, a sut a phryd i ymateb. Oherwydd mae goblygiadau peidio â gwneud hyn yn iawn, i’n plant mwyaf agored i niwed, yn rhai na ellir eu dychmygu. Diolch.
Y cwestiwn yw: a ddylid nodi adroddiad y pwyllgor? A oes unrhyw Aelod yn gwrthwynebu? Nac oes. Felly, derbynnir y cynnig y unol â Rheol Sefydlog 12.36.
The proposal is to note the committee's report. Does any member object? No. Therefore, the motion is agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.26.
Derbyniwyd y cynnig yn unol â Rheol Sefydlog 12.36.
Motion agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.
Detholwyd y gwelliannau canlynol: gwelliant 1 yn enw Jane Hutt, a gwelliant 2 yn enw Paul Davies. Os derbynnir gwelliant 1, caiff gwelliant 2 ei ddad-dethol.
The following amendments have been selected: amendment 1 in the name of Jane Hutt, and amendment 2 in the name of Paul Davies. If amendment 1 is agreed, amendment 2 will be deselected.
Eitem 8 heddiw yw dadl Plaid Cymru ar gyllid seilwaith rheilffyrdd. Galwaf ar Peredur Owen Griffiths i wneud y cynnig.
Item 8 today is the Plaid Cymru debate on rail infrastructure funding. I call on Peredur Owen Griffiths to move the motion.
Cynnig NDM8852 Heledd Fychan
Cynnig bod y Senedd:
1. Yn nodi:
a) cydnabyddiaeth yr Ysgrifennydd Gwladol dros Drafnidiaeth y DU mewn gohebiaeth â Llywodraeth Cymru bod seilwaith rheilffyrdd Cymru wedi dioddef o lefelau hanesyddol isel o wariant ar welliannau dros nifer o flynyddoedd;
b) bod y tanariannu systematig hwn yn ychwanegol at gadw cyllid canlyniadol HS2 yn ôl; ac
c) yn ôl dadansoddiad Llywodraeth Cymru yn 2020, bydd Cymru, o gymharu â’i chyfran o boblogaeth y DU a hyd llwybr y rhwydwaith rheilffyrdd, yn wynebu diffyg o rhwng £2.4 biliwn a £5.1 biliwn mewn cyllid i wella ein rheilffyrdd ar sail ymrwymiadau Llywodraeth y DU dros y cyfnod rhwng 2019 I 2029.
2. Yn gresynu:
a) bod adroddiadau yn nodi bwriad Canghellor y DU i rewi gwariant ar brosiectau rheilffyrdd newydd mawr tan ar ôl etholiad nesaf y DU, a fyddai’n dwysau ymhellach y tanariannu systematig ar gyfer rheilffyrdd Cymru, a hynny am o leiaf bedair blynedd arall; a
b) bod addewidion blaenorol Llywodraeth y DU ar seilwaith rheilffyrdd, a oedd ynddynt eu hunain yn annigonol i wneud iawn am danariannu hanesyddol, megis yr addewid i drydaneiddio rheilffordd gogledd Cymru, wedi methu â chael eu gwireddu.
3. Yn galw ar Lywodraeth Cymru i:
a) darparu ffigyrau wedi’u diweddaru ar y diffyg mewn-fuddsoddiad i wella’r rheilffyrdd yng Nghymru;
b) cadarnhau ei safbwynt y dylid ail-ddynodi HS2 yn brosiect i Loegr yn unig ac y dylai Cymru gael y symiau canlyniadol yn unol â ffigyrau a ddyfynnwyd gan Weinidogion presennol Llywodraeth y DU pan mewn gwrthblaid; ac
c) ysgrifennu at yr Ysgrifennydd Gwladol dros Drafnidiaeth y DU i ofyn i’r symiau canlyniadol llawn gael eu rhyddhau i Gymru a gwrthdroi lefelau isel o wariant ar welliannau.
Motion NDM8852 Heledd Fychan
To propose that the Senedd:
1. Notes that:
a) the UK Secretary of State for Transport's acknowledgement in correspondence with the Welsh Government that Wales’s rail infrastructure has suffered from historically low levels of enhancement spending over many years;
b) this systematic underfunding is in addition to the withholding of HS2 consequentials; and
c) the Welsh Government’s analysis from 2020 that relative to its share of UK population and route length of the rail network, Wales will face a shortfall of between £2.4 billion and £5.1 billion in rail enhancement funding on the basis of UK Government commitments over the period 2019 to 2029.
2. Regrets:
a) the reports that the UK Chancellor intends to freeze spending on major new rail projects until after the next UK election, which would further entrench the systematic underfunding of Welsh rail for at least another four years; and
b) that previous UK Government pledges on rail infrastructure, which were in themselves insufficient to make up for historic underfunding, such as the pledge to electrify the north Wales mainline, have failed to materialise.
3. Calls on the Welsh Government to:
a) provide updated figures on the shortfall in rail enhancement investment in Wales;
b) confirm its position that HS2 should be redesignated as an England-only project and that Wales should receive the resultant consequentials in line with figures quoted by current UK Government Ministers when in opposition; and
c) write to the UK Secretary of State for Transport to ask for the full consequentials to be made available to Wales and reversal of low levels of enhancement spending.
Cynigiwyd y cynnig.
Motion moved.
Diolch yn fawr, Dirprwy Lywydd, a dwi'n falch iawn o gael cynnig y cynnig yma yn enw Heledd Fychan heddiw.
Thank you very much, Dirprwy Lywydd, and I'm pleased to move this motion in the name of Heledd Fychan this afternoon.
I'm pleased to open this debate on a motion that gets to the heart of a fundamental injustice—the systematic underfunding of Welsh rail infrastructure by the UK Government. Our motion sets out the undeniable facts: Wales has received a fraction of the rail enhancement funding it is owed, our infrastructure has suffered from decades of neglect, and the UK Government has failed to deliver the fair funding Wales needs to improve its transport network.
The UK Secretary of State for Transport has acknowledged that Wales has experienced historically low levels of rail enhancement spending. But this underfunding is not just historical, it is ongoing. Westminster, whether red or blue, continues to deny Wales the HS2 consequentials it is due, despite the fact that Scotland and Northern Ireland received their fair shares. If Wales had been treated fairly and equitably, we would have been entitled to around £4 billion.
That figure has been repeated previously by numerous members of this Government, Labour Members of the Senedd, Labour Members of Parliament and, even now, the Secretary of State for Wales. These calls from the Government benches opposite grew evermore silent as they inched closer to power in Westminster, where they would have the ability to do something about the ongoing injustice we face on funding. This is not just about past spending, it's about Wales's future.
We hear reports that the UK Chancellor intends to freeze spending on major new rail projects until after the next UK election. The Secretary of State for Wales claimed that rail development in Wales was her No. 1 priority, yet only days later, reports emerged that the UK Government is blocking new investment. Clearly, the people of Wales cannot trust this Labour Party to stick to their word.
What do we make of the amendment today? It is a 'delete all' amendment, u-turning on previous policy positions. A weak amendment that does nothing to demand fair funding for Wales and instead welcomes vague promises from the UK Government. And let's be clear, this is a complete u-turn of Labour's previous stance. In the past, Labour MSs in this very Chamber have unanimously voted for HS2 consequentials for Wales. They've stood on platforms promising to fight for fair rail funding. They have agreed with everything we are saying today. That is, until Keir Starmer took charge and they decided to put party over the interests of Wales. Now, when it truly matters, they have collective amnesia. What has changed? The facts remain the same, the funding injustice remains the same, the flawed Barnett formula is the same. The only thing that has changed is Labour's willingness to stand up for Wales when they've finally got the chance to do something about it. I'm so disappointed. Diolch yn fawr.
Rwy'n falch o agor y ddadl hon ar gynnig sy'n mynd at wraidd anghyfiawnder sylfaenol—tanariannu systemig seilwaith rheilffyrdd Cymru gan Lywodraeth y DU. Mae ein cynnig yn nodi’r ffeithiau diymwad: mae Cymru wedi cael cyfran fach iawn o’r cyllid gwella rheilffyrdd sy’n ddyledus iddi, mae ein seilwaith wedi dioddef o ddegawdau o esgeulustod, ac mae Llywodraeth y DU wedi methu darparu’r cyllid teg sydd ei angen ar Gymru i wella ei rhwydwaith trafnidiaeth.
Mae Ysgrifennydd Gwladol y DU dros Drafnidiaeth wedi cydnabod bod Cymru'n hanesyddol wedi profi lefelau isel o wariant ar wella rheilffyrdd. Ond nid hanesyddol yn unig yw'r tanariannu hwn, mae'n parhau. Mae San Steffan, boed yn goch neu’n las, yn parhau i wrthod y cyllid canlyniadol sy’n ddyledus i Gymru yn sgil HS2, er bod yr Alban a Gogledd Iwerddon wedi derbyn eu cyfran deg. Pe bai Cymru wedi cael ei thrin yn deg ac yn gyfartal, byddai gennym hawl i oddeutu £4 biliwn.
Mae’r ffigur hwnnw wedi’i ailadrodd yn y gorffennol gan nifer o aelodau’r Llywodraeth hon, Aelodau o'r Senedd Llafur, Aelodau Seneddol Llafur, ac Ysgrifennydd Gwladol Cymru nawr. Distawodd y galwadau hyn ar feinciau’r Llywodraeth gyferbyn wrth iddynt ddod yn nes at rym yn San Steffan, lle byddai ganddynt allu i wneud rhywbeth am yr anghyfiawnder parhaus a wynebwn ar gyllid. Nid ymwneud â gwariant yn y gorffennol yn unig y mae, mae'n ymwneud â dyfodol Cymru.
Clywn adroddiadau fod Canghellor y DU yn bwriadu rhewi gwariant ar brosiectau rheilffyrdd mawr newydd tan ar ôl etholiad nesaf y DU. Honnodd Ysgrifennydd Gwladol Cymru mai datblygu rheilffyrdd yng Nghymru oedd ei phrif flaenoriaeth, ac eto, ddyddiau’n unig yn ddiweddarach, daeth adroddiadau fod Llywodraeth y DU yn atal buddsoddiad newydd. Yn amlwg, ni all pobl Cymru ymddiried yn y Blaid Lafur hon i gadw at eu gair.
Beth a wnawn o'r gwelliant heddiw? Mae'n welliant 'dileu popeth', sy'n gwneud tro pedol ar safbwyntiau polisi blaenorol. Gwelliant gwan nad yw’n gwneud dim i fynnu cyllid teg i Gymru ac sydd, yn lle hynny, yn croesawu addewidion amwys gan Lywodraeth y DU. A gadewch inni fod yn glir, mae hwn yn dro pedol llwyr o safbwynt blaenorol Llafur. Yn y gorffennol, mae Aelodau Llafur o'r Senedd yn yr union Siambr hon wedi pleidleisio’n unfrydol dros gyllid canlyniadol HS2 i Gymru. Maent wedi sefyll ar blatfformau yn addo ymladd dros gyllid teg i'r rheilffyrdd. Maent wedi cytuno â phopeth a ddywedwn heddiw. Hynny yw, nes i Keir Starmer gymryd yr awenau a phenderfynu rhoi ei blaid o flaen buddiannau Cymru. Nawr, pan fydd o bwys, mae ganddynt amnesia torfol. Beth sydd wedi newid? Mae’r ffeithiau yr un fath, mae’r anghyfiawnder cyllido yr un fath, mae fformiwla ddiffygiol Barnett yr un fath. Yr unig beth sydd wedi newid yw parodrwydd Llafur i sefyll dros Gymru a hwythau o'r diwedd wedi cael cyfle i wneud rhywbeth amdano. Rwyf mor siomedig. Diolch yn fawr.
Rwyf wedi dethol y ddau welliant i'r cynnig. Os derbynnir gwelliant 1, caiff gwelliant 2 ei ddad-ddethol. Galwaf ar Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet dros Drafnidiaeth a Gogledd Cymru i gynnig yn ffurfiol welliant 1 yn enw Jane Hutt.
I have selected the two amendments to the motion. If amendment 1 is agreed, amendment 2 will be deselected. I call on the Cabinet Secretary for Transport and North Wales to move formally amendment 1, tabled in the name of Jane Hutt.
Gwelliant 1—Jane Hutt
Dileu popeth a rhoi yn ei le:
Cynnig bod y Senedd:
1. Yn croesawu:
a) bod Llywodraeth y DU wedi cydnabod y lefelau hanesyddol o isel o wariant ar y rheilffyrdd yng Nghymru; a
b) y ffaith bod Llywodraeth y DU wedi cefnogi cyfres o flaenoriaethau ar gyfer gwella’r rheilffyrdd a bennwyd gan fwrdd Rheilffyrdd Cymru.
2. Yn nodi bod Llywodraeth Cymru yn ceisio sicrhau:
a) cyllid ar gyfer cyfres uchelgeisiol o welliannau i’r rheilffyrdd, gan gychwyn gyda chyflawni argymhellion Comisiynau Trafnidiaeth Gogledd Cymru a De-ddwyrain Cymru;
b) adolygiad o brosesau buddsoddi Network Rail er mwyn sicrhau bod Cymru’n derbyn cyfran deg o fuddsoddiad Network Rail yn y dyfodol;
c) cyllid ar gyfer gwelliannau i Linellau Craidd y Cymoedd; a
d) lefel briodol o gymhared gyda rhaglenni perthnasol Llywodraeth y DU o fewn fformiwla Barnett, gan gydnabod bod y cyfrifoldeb am y rhan hon o’r rhwydwaith rheilffyrdd yng Nghymru bellach wedi’i ddatganoli.
Amendment 1—Jane Hutt
Delete all and replace with:
To propose that the Senedd:
1. Welcomes:
a) that the UK Government has acknowledged the historic low levels of spending on railways in Wales; and
b) the endorsement by the UK Government of a pipeline of rail enhancement priorities identified by the Wales Rail Board.
2. Notes that the Welsh Government is seeking to secure:
a) funding for an ambitious pipeline of rail enhancements, starting with the delivery of the recommendations of the North Wales and South East Wales Transport Commissions;
b) a review of Network Rail investment processes to ensure Wales receives a fair share of future Network Rail investment;
c) funding for Core Valley Lines rail enhancements; and
d) an appropriate level of comparability with relevant UK Government programmes in the Barnett formula, recognising that responsibility for this part of the rail network in Wales is now devolved.
Cynigiwyd gwelliant 1.
Amendment 1 moved.

Moved.
Cynigiwyd.
Galwaf ar Peter Fox i gynnig gwelliant 2, yn enw Paul Davies.
I call on Peter Fox to move amendment 2, in the name of Paul Davies.
Gwelliant 2—Paul Davies
Ym mhwynt 2, dileu is-bwynt b).
Amendment 2—Paul Davies
In point 2, delete sub-point b).
Cynigiwyd gwelliant 2.
Amendment 2 moved.
Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd. I move the amendment, tabled in the name of Paul Davies. Dirprwy Lywydd, consecutive Labour Governments here in Cardiff Bay have played politics with virtually every issue. They played politics when it came to the UK Conservative Government offering support for waiting lists, they played politics when it came to the matter of M4 relief road funding and again when it came to childcare, and the matter of rail investment is no different. Let's look at HS2, as we've already heard. It must be embarrassing for Labour backbenchers—hence not many are here—where, before the last election, Labour politicians in both Wales and England were calling—
Diolch, Ddirprwy Llywydd. Rwy'n cynnig y gwelliant a gyflwynwyd yn enw Paul Davies. Ddirprwy Lywydd, mae Llywodraethau Llafur olynol yma ym Mae Caerdydd wedi chwarae gwleidyddiaeth gyda bron bob mater sy'n codi. Fe wnaethant chwarae gwleidyddiaeth pan gynigodd Llywodraeth Geidwadol y DU gymorth ar gyfer rhestrau aros, fe wnaethant chwarae gwleidyddiaeth gyda chyllid ar gyfer ffordd liniaru’r M4, ac unwaith eto mewn perthynas â gofal plant, ac nid yw buddsoddiad yn y rheilffyrdd yn wahanol. Gadewch inni edrych ar HS2, fel y clywsom eisoes. Mae'n rhaid ei fod yn chwithig i Aelodau Llafur ar y meinciau cefn—a dyna pam nad oes llawer ohonynt yma—lle, cyn yr etholiad diwethaf, roedd gwleidyddion Llafur yng Nghymru a Lloegr yn galw—
There's nobody on your front bench.
Nid oes unrhyw un ar eich mainc flaen chi.
Yes, all right. I'm talking about you.
Ie, iawn. Rwy'n siarad amdanoch chi.
There's nobody on your front bench.
Nid oes unrhyw un ar eich mainc flaen chi.
There were Labour politicians in Wales—[Interruption.]
Roedd gwleidyddion Llafur yng Nghymru—[Torri ar draws.]
Let's not have a conversation across the room, let's allow the contribution to be made.
Gadewch inni beidio â chael sgwrs ar draws yr ystafell, gadewch inni ganiatáu i'r cyfraniad gael ei wneud.
He always does it. So, yes, politicians in both Wales and England were calling for billions of pounds, as we've heard, of consequential funding for HS2, but now that Labour are in power in Westminster, their call is now for just a meagre £400 million. What a kick in the teeth. We should be getting at least £1.5 billion, recognising the £38 billion that has been spent so far on HS2 funding. That's not to say that that's all we want—[Interruption.] Yes.
Mae bob amser yn ei wneud. Felly, roedd gwleidyddion yng Nghymru a Lloegr yn galw am biliynau o bunnoedd, fel y clywsom, o gyllid canlyniadol ar gyfer HS2, ond gan fod Llafur mewn grym yn San Steffan bellach, dim ond £400 miliwn yw eu galwad bellach. Am gic yn y dannedd. Dylem fod yn cael o leiaf £1.5 biliwn, gan gydnabod y £38 biliwn a wariwyd hyd yma ar HS2. Nid yw hynny'n dweud mai dyna'r cyfan rydym ei eisiau—[Torri ar draws.] Iawn.
Thank you for taking the intervention. Would you agree, then, that the consistent failure of the last Government over 14 years to pay consequential funding to Wales was a 14-year kick in the teeth?
Diolch am dderbyn yr ymyriad. A fyddech chi'n cytuno, felly, fod methiant cyson y Llywodraeth ddiwethaf dros 14 mlynedd i dalu cyllid canlyniadol i Gymru yn gic yn y dannedd a barhaodd am 14 mlynedd?
We, as a group, as you know, have stood against our own party when it comes to HS2 consequentials, and we're talking about your opportunity now, and it's a kick in the teeth for Wales that you are turning your back on your Members.
Keir Starmer had his chance to announce extra funding in Wales as a result of HS2 spending in the autumn budget, but, instead, he chose to tax our farmers, strip pensioners of their winter fuel allowance and hit businesses and employees with national insurance increases. He could have announced the electrification of the north Wales main line, a £1 billion project that had been pledged by the Conservatives, but no, instead, the Labour Government—[Interruption.] I knew you were going to do that.
Rydym ni, fel grŵp, fel y gwyddoch, wedi sefyll yn erbyn ein plaid ein hunain ar fater cyllid canlyniadol HS2, ac rydym yn sôn am eich cyfle chi nawr, ac mae’n gic yn nannedd Cymru eich bod yn troi eich cefn ar eich Aelodau.
Cafodd Keir Starmer ei gyfle i gyhoeddi cyllid ychwanegol yng Nghymru o ganlyniad i wariant ar HS2 yng nghyllideb yr hydref, ond yn lle hynny, dewisodd drethu ein ffermwyr, cael gwared ar lwfans tanwydd y gaeaf i bensiynwyr a tharo busnesau a gweithwyr â chynnydd i yswiriant gwladol. Gallai fod wedi trydaneiddio prif reilffordd y gogledd, prosiect gwerth £1 biliwn a addawyd gan y Ceidwadwyr, ond na, yn hytrach, fe wnaeth y Llywodraeth Lafur—[Torri ar draws.] Roeddwn yn gwybod eich bod yn mynd i wneud hynny.
Will you take an intervention on that? Because you're right, the Conservatives pledged it. What they didn't do was to budget for it, and we've seen correspondence from Network Rail that directly contradicts what Rishi Sunak said in his speech in Manchester. He said that the money was there; it wasn't there. He misled people. Do you condemn him for that?
A wnewch chi dderbyn ymyriad ar hynny? Oherwydd rydych chi'n llygad eich lle, y Ceidwadwyr a addawodd hynny. Yr hyn na wnaethant oedd cyllidebu ar ei gyfer, ac rydym wedi gweld gohebiaeth gan Network Rail sy’n gwrth-ddweud yn uniongyrchol yr hyn a ddywedodd Rishi Sunak yn ei araith ym Manceinion. Dywedodd fod yr arian yno; nid oedd yno. Fe wnaeth gamarwain pobl. A ydych chi'n ei gondemnio am hynny?
No, I don't. No, I don't.
Nac ydw. Nac ydw.
Thought not. Thought not. Thought not.
Roeddwn yn amau na fyddech. Roeddwn yn amau na fyddech.
These are about choices and decisions. If Keir Starmer and Rachel Reeves wanted to do it, if they really thought, they would have found a way to have done it. We would have done it, and your party clearly don't want to now. But, instead, the Labour Government—. As we heard also, Westminster's decided to freeze all new rail projects. That's short-sighted, isn't it? How is this conducive with the need for more and better public transport or the need to reduce carbon emissions? It's not. Labour struggle to understand that we need to invest in our infrastructure if we want to see growth, so there has to be a joined-up strategy across policy areas aligned to strategic aims, rather than ad hoc policy done on the hoof. And we see Plaid Cymru continually shouting for more money irrespective of context. No matter how much the UK Government send to Wales's Government, it will never be enough for Plaid, and I can see why they do that.
And that said, that said, I agree with most of their motion. I agree with most of their motion, apart from the continuous complaining about past Conservative Governments. I know that's your job—[Interruption.] But it's easy. It's easy—[Interruption.] It's easy, Dirprwy Lywydd, to carp from the backbenches, knowing that they're unlikely ever to have to deliver anything, certainly not in the UK Government, and probably not here. Words are cheap. [Interruption.] Sorry, Mabon.
Mae hyn yn ymwneud â dewisiadau a phenderfyniadau. Pe bai Keir Starmer a Rachel Reeves am ei wneud, pe baent yn meddwl o ddifrif, byddent wedi dod o hyd i ffordd o'i wneud. Byddem wedi ei wneud, ac yn amlwg, nid yw eich plaid am wneud hynny nawr. Ond yn hytrach, mae’r Llywodraeth Lafur—. Fel y clywsom hefyd, mae San Steffan wedi penderfynu rhewi pob prosiect rheilffordd newydd. Onid yw hynny'n annoeth? Sut y mae hyn yn gydnaws â'r angen am fwy o drafnidiaeth gyhoeddus a thrafnidiaeth gyhoeddus well, neu'r angen i leihau allyriadau carbon? Nid yw'n gydnaws. Mae Llafur yn ei chael hi'n anodd deall bod angen inni fuddsoddi yn ein seilwaith os ydym am weld twf, felly mae’n rhaid cael strategaeth gydgysylltiedig ar draws meysydd polisi sydd wedi’i halinio â nodau strategol, yn hytrach na pholisi ad hoc sy'n cael ei lunio wrth fynd. Ac rydym yn gweld Plaid Cymru yn gweiddi’n barhaus am fwy o arian ni waeth beth fo’r cyd-destun. Ni waeth faint y mae Llywodraeth y DU yn ei anfon at Lywodraeth Cymru, ni fydd byth yn ddigon i Blaid Cymru, a gallaf weld pam eu bod yn gwneud hynny.
Ac wedi dweud hynny, wedi dweud hynny, rwy'n cytuno â'r rhan fwyaf o'u cynnig. Rwy'n cytuno â’r rhan fwyaf o’u cynnig, ar wahân i’r cwyno parhaus am Lywodraethau Ceidwadol y gorffennol. Rwy'n gwybod mai dyna yw eich gwaith—[Torri ar draws.] Ond mae'n hawdd. Mae'n hawdd—[Torri ar draws.] Ddirprwy Lywydd, mae'n hawdd achwyn o'r meinciau cefn, gan wybod ei bod yn annhebygol y bydd yn rhaid iddynt byth gyflawni unrhyw beth, yn sicr nid yn Llywodraeth y DU, ac nid yma yn ôl pob tebyg. Mae geiriau'n rhad. [Torri ar draws.] Mae'n ddrwg gennyf, Mabon.
Do you accept that we've had decades of underinvestment in our rail service, and that the Conservative Party is part of that problem?
A ydych chi'n derbyn ein bod wedi cael degawdau o danfuddsoddi yn ein gwasanaeth rheilffyrdd, a bod y Blaid Geidwadol yn rhan o’r broblem honno?
I think we could have had more in Wales over the many, many years, yes. But we're talking about now. We're talking about now. We're talking about 25 years of Labour. You could have reprofiled your own capital spend and done more with different things.
Now, unlike—[Interruption.] Now, unlike the Labour Government, we as Conservatives were happy to tell our colleagues in Westminster when we disagreed with them, and we did not sell Wales short. I believe that Wales was owed fair funding for HS2 and still is, unlike the Labour Party, who clearly don't. When we look at their amendment, there is no direct mention of HS2, and it does not expressly call for fair funding, let alone put a figure on it.
We hear the First Minister regularly saying she is not responsible for what Keir Starmer does, but that shouldn't stop the Labour Party here calling him out. First Ministers here have always been happy to criticise every Conservative Prime Minister; why can't Welsh Labour stand up to the current UK Government, recognising how they are ripping off Wales and the Welsh people?
Dirprwy Lywydd, I really hope that Wales gets the investment we deserve from UK Government, but it's clear that Keir Starmer has had other ideas, and it's also clear that the Welsh Government won't advocate for the people of Wales. Welsh Labour are clearly tired; it's time for them to stand aside and let us put things right.
Rwy'n credu y gallem fod wedi cael mwy yng Nghymru dros flynyddoedd lawer, gallem. Ond rydym yn sôn am nawr. Rydym yn sôn am nawr. Rydym yn sôn am 25 mlynedd o Lafur. Gallech fod wedi ailbroffilio eich gwariant cyfalaf eich hun a gwneud mwy gyda gwahanol bethau.
Nawr, yn wahanol i—[Torri ar draws.] Nawr, yn wahanol i'r Llywodraeth Lafur, roeddem ni fel Ceidwadwyr yn fwy na pharod i ddweud wrth ein cymheiriaid yn San Steffan pan oeddem yn anghytuno â hwy, ac ni wnaethom gam â Chymru. Credaf fod cyllid teg yn ddyledus i Gymru o hyd am HS2, yn wahanol i’r Blaid Lafur, nad ydynt yn credu hynny, fel sy'n amlwg. Pan edrychwn ar eu gwelliant, nid oes unrhyw gyfeiriad uniongyrchol at HS2, ac nid yw’n galw’n benodol am gyllid teg, heb sôn am roi ffigur arno.
Clywn Brif Weinidog Cymru'n dweud yn rheolaidd nad yw’n gyfrifol am yr hyn y mae Keir Starmer yn ei wneud, ond ni ddylai hynny atal y Blaid Lafur yma rhag ei feirniadu. Mae Prif Weinidogion yma bob amser wedi bod yn fwy na pharod i feirniadu pob Prif Weinidog Ceidwadol; pam na all Llafur Cymru wrthwynebu Llywodraeth bresennol y DU, gan gydnabod sut y maent yn twyllo Cymru a phobl Cymru?
Ddirprwy Lywydd, rwy’n mawr obeithio y bydd Cymru’n cael y buddsoddiad rydym yn ei haeddu gan Lywodraeth y DU, ond mae’n amlwg fod gan Keir Starmer syniadau eraill, ac mae hefyd yn amlwg na fydd Llywodraeth Cymru yn dadlau dros bobl Cymru. Mae Llafur Cymru yn amlwg wedi blino; mae'n bryd iddynt sefyll o'r neilltu a gadael i ni unioni pethau.
The closer we get to an election, the poorer the standard of debate happens to be in this Chamber.
You would swear from what you've heard—and I'm sure my colleague, because I believe my colleague Mick Antoniw is going to speak, will talk about the importance of the right to devolution of that funding—but you would swear from what you heard in this debate that, actually, there's been no progress whatsoever on rail in Wales, which is manifestly not the case. I can take you back to my office in Gilfach in 2016 when I invited Ian Bullock of Arriva Trains Wales into the office to ask him why we had to travel to work on stinky, crowded, squeaky-wheeled Pacer trains in which everybody was packed in like sardines on the journey to work. Peredur is nodding; I imagine you've travelled on those. I remember Leanne Wood getting up in the Chamber and saying how disgusting it was that people had to travel on these trains, and I agreed with her. And then we managed to get Tom Joyner, when he took over Arriva Trains Wales, to buy in additional rolling stock, old-fashioned 769 trains, but we managed to get them, to buy them in and convert them from electric to diesel to run on the line. That helped Transport for Wales—[Interruption.] Well, it was going really well, then. You interrupted—. Go on.
Po agosaf y down at etholiad, y gwaethaf y mae safon y ddadl yn digwydd bod yn y Siambr hon.
Byddech yn tyngu o’r hyn a glywsoch—ac rwy’n siŵr y bydd fy nghyd-Aelod, gan y credaf fod fy nghyd-Aelod Mick Antoniw yn mynd i siarad, yn sôn am bwysigrwydd yr hawl i ddatganoli’r cyllid hwnnw—ond byddech yn tyngu o’r hyn a glywsoch yn y ddadl hon na fu unrhyw gynnydd o gwbl ar y rheilffyrdd yng Nghymru, ac yn amlwg, nid yw hynny’n wir. Gallaf fynd â chi’n ôl i fy swyddfa yn Gilfach yn 2016 pan wahoddais Ian Bullock o Trenau Arriva Cymru i’r swyddfa i ofyn iddo pam y bu’n rhaid inni deithio i’r gwaith ar drenau Pacer drewllyd, gorlawn, gwichlyd lle roedd pawb fel sardinau ar y daith i’r gwaith. Mae Peredur yn nodio ei ben; rwy'n cymryd eich bod wedi teithio ar y rheini. Rwy’n cofio Leanne Wood yn codi yn y Siambr ac yn dweud pa mor ffiaidd oedd hi fod pobl yn gorfod teithio ar y trenau hyn, ac roeddwn yn cytuno. Ac yna, fe wnaethom lwyddo i berswadio Tom Joyner, pan ddaeth yn gyfrifol am Trenau Arriva Cymru, i brynu cerbydau ychwanegol, trenau 769 hen ffasiwn, ond fe wnaethom lwyddo i’w cael, eu prynu a’u trosi o drydan i ddiesel i redeg ar y rheilffordd. Fe wnaeth hynny helpu Trafnidiaeth Cymru—[Torri ar draws.] Wel, roedd yn mynd yn dda iawn. Fe wnaethoch chi dorri ar draws—. Ewch amdani.
You were just questioning why you had to travel in such poor trains back in 2016. The reason why you had to travel in such poor trains in 2016 was, when Stephen Byers issued the initial franchise for rail in Wales—
Roeddech yn cwestiynu pam y bu’n rhaid ichi deithio mewn trenau mor wael yn ôl yn 2016. Y rheswm pam y bu’n rhaid ichi deithio ar drenau mor wael yn 2016 oedd, pan gyhoeddodd Stephen Byers y fasnachfraint gyntaf ar gyfer rheilffyrdd yng Nghymru—
Oh God, it's like Mark Isherwood.
O Dduw, mae fel Mark Isherwood.
—it had 0 per cent—0 per cent—growth built into a 15-year franchise. Your Government put the franchise in place, and it had 0 per cent growth built into it.
—roedd twf o 0 y cant—0 y cant—wedi'i ymgorffori mewn masnachfraint 15 mlynedd. Eich Llywodraeth chi a roddodd y fasnachfraint ar waith, ac roedd ganddi dwf o 0 y cant wedi’i ymgorffori ynddi.
It's the Mark Isherwood process of going back over past speeches. It was a good answer, but the fact is I'm not talking about the historic situation, I'm talking about what happened with the Minister, the Cabinet Secretary, the Cabinet Secretary who is sitting on the front bench right now, and the changes we saw.
So, if I come back to Tom Joyner, bringing in those carriages on the line, that helped then add infill while the new trains were being built and have appeared on the line. So, if you look the Rhymney to Cardiff line now, the newest trains in the whole of Europe—the newest trains in the whole of Europe—are running on the Rhymney to Cardiff line. The transformation is incredible. The transformation is incredible. If you were travelling on the train today, you would not recognise that service. Whatever happened with Stephen Byers, you would not have recognised that service, because the core Valleys lines were devolved, because the transport Cabinet Secretary has been able to make those changes, and those changes are going to be rolled out across the Valleys lines network in the form of the metro—
Dyma broses Mark Isherwood o fynd yn ôl dros areithiau'r gorffennol. Roedd yn ateb da, ond y ffaith amdani yw nad wyf yn sôn am y sefyllfa hanesyddol, rwy’n sôn am yr hyn a ddigwyddodd gyda’r Gweinidog, Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet, Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet sy’n eistedd ar y fainc flaen nawr, a’r newidiadau a welsom.
Felly, os dof yn ôl at Tom Joyner, a chyflwyno'r cerbydau hynny ar y rheilffordd, fe wnaeth hynny helpu wedyn i fewnlenwi tra bo'r trenau newydd yn cael eu hadeiladu ac maent wedi ymddangos ar y rheilffordd. Felly, os edrychwch chi ar reilffordd Rhymni i Gaerdydd nawr, mae'r trenau mwyaf newydd yn Ewrop gyfan—y trenau mwyaf newydd yn Ewrop gyfan—yn rhedeg ar y rheilffordd rhwng Rhymni a Chaerdydd. Mae'r trawsnewidiad yn anhygoel. Mae'r trawsnewidiad yn anhygoel. Pe baech chi'n teithio ar y trên heddiw, ni fyddech yn adnabod y gwasanaeth hwnnw. Ni waeth beth a ddigwyddodd gyda Stephen Byers, ni fyddech wedi adnabod y gwasanaeth hwnnw, gan fod llinellau craidd y Cymoedd wedi’u datganoli, gan fod Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet dros drafnidiaeth wedi gallu gwneud y newidiadau hynny, ac mae’r newidiadau hynny’n mynd i gael eu cyflwyno ar draws rhwydwaith rheilffyrdd y Cymoedd ar ffurf y metro—
Will you take an intervention?
A wnewch chi dderbyn ymyriad?
Oh God, all right, then. Go on.
O Dduw, o'r gorau. Ewch amdani.
I accept what you're saying, and it's good to see those new trains, even though we could do with some in north-west Wales as well—
Rwy'n derbyn yr hyn a ddywedwch, ac mae’n dda gweld y trenau newydd hynny, er y gallem wneud â rhywfaint yng ngogledd-orllewin Cymru hefyd—
Yes, and I've said—
Iawn, ac rwyf wedi dweud—
—but the funds that you've had to allocate for that, that money, if we had our fair share, could have been paid from the money that we're owed from the UK Government, and the money that you've had to spend could have been spent on other capital projects. But you're not accepting that—
—ond y cyllid y bu'n rhaid i chi ei ddyrannu ar gyfer hynny, gallai’r arian hwnnw, pe byddem wedi cael ein cyfran deg, fod wedi’i dalu o’r arian sy’n ddyledus i ni gan Lywodraeth y DU, a gallai’r arian y bu'n rhaid i chi ei wario fod wedi’i wario ar brosiectau cyfalaf eraill. Ond nid ydych yn derbyn hynny—
No, I am. I am accepting that, and, as I said, my colleague is going to make the same point, but I think the point you've made is, actually, that the Welsh Labour Government deserves credit for what it's achieved with limited resources on this line; £1.5 billion has been spent on the metro, and we've seen it rolling out. So, I welcome Mabon ap Gwynfor's praise for the Welsh Labour Government's success in the face of the challenge. And as Alun Davies is chuntering, it is devolved. It is because it's devolved; that's where the power comes from. So, you were absolutely right to say it needs to be devolved and that devolution is welcome.
So—. My flow was interrupted by Mabon ap Gwynfor. This is coming off the top of my head anyway, so it doesn't help. The fact that the trains will be rolled out across the rest of the network will happen, and I've often likened Transport for Wales and the network to being like a flowering flower that germinates on the Rhymney line and is now seeding across the network, and you will see that. That transformation has come about directly as a result of what happened.
Yesterday—. I also want to talk about one other thing. Yesterday, we talked about the global centre of rail excellence at First Minister's questions. I believe there's an opportunity there as well, and, again, why the devolution of funding is important, because I think there's an opportunity there for the UK Government to put in further direct investment, in addition to the £20 million so far, to support that, providing that the global centre of rail excellence can leverage in additional funding.
The key point is that centre will bring new economic strength to Onllwyn and to the area in which it's operating, including the whole of the south Wales Valleys. I think it can become a magnet for world-class talent and the first ever net-zero in-operation railway, supporting innovations needed to speed up technology development in the rail industry. At the moment, if we want to test our carriages that are running—these brand-new carriages that are running—on the core Valleys lines, we've got to send them to Spain. Wouldn't it be easier if we could just send them across to Neath? That's an opportunity that we have and an opportunity I'm going to be pressing as time goes by. With that, with all the interventions, I think I'd better stop, Dirprwy Lywydd. Thank you very much.
Na, rwy'n derbyn hynny. Rwy’n derbyn hynny, ac fel y dywedais, mae fy nghyd-Aelod yn mynd i wneud yr un pwynt, ond y pwynt rydych chi wedi’i wneud mewn gwirionedd yw bod Llywodraeth Lafur Cymru yn haeddu clod am yr hyn y mae wedi’i gyflawni gydag adnoddau cyfyngedig ar y llinell reilffordd hon; mae £1.5 biliwn wedi’i wario ar y metro, ac rydym wedi’i weld yn cael ei gyflwyno. Felly, rwy'n croesawu canmoliaeth Mabon ap Gwynfor i lwyddiant Llywodraeth Lafur Cymru yn wyneb yr her. Ac fel y mae Alun Davies yn mwmian, mae wedi'i ddatganoli. Mae hyn oherwydd ei fod wedi'i ddatganoli; dyna lle daw'r pŵer. Felly, roeddech yn llygad eich lle yn dweud bod angen iddo gael ei ddatganoli a bod datganoli i’w groesawu.
Felly—. Amharodd Mabon ap Gwynfor ar fy llif. Daw hyn o fy nghof beth bynnag, felly nid yw'n helpu. Mae'n ffaith y bydd y trenau’n cael eu cyflwyno ar draws gweddill y rhwydwaith, ac rwy'n aml wedi cymharu Trafnidiaeth Cymru a’r rhwydwaith â blodyn sy’n egino ar reilffordd Rhymni ac sydd bellach yn hadu ar draws y rhwydwaith, a byddwch yn gweld hynny. Mae’r trawsnewidiad hwnnw wedi digwydd o ganlyniad uniongyrchol i’r hyn a ddigwyddodd.
Ddoe—. Hoffwn sôn am un peth arall. Ddoe, buom yn sôn am y ganolfan ragoriaeth fyd-eang ar gyfer rheilffyrdd yng nghwestiynau’r Prif Weinidog. Credaf fod cyfle yn hynny o beth hefyd, ac unwaith eto, pam fod datganoli cyllid yn bwysig, gan y credaf fod cyfle yno i Lywodraeth y DU wneud rhagor o fuddsoddiad uniongyrchol, yn ychwanegol at yr £20 miliwn hyd yma, i gefnogi hynny, ar yr amod y gall y ganolfan ragoriaeth fyd-eang ar gyfer rheilffyrdd ddenu cyllid ychwanegol i mewn.
Y pwynt allweddol yw y bydd y ganolfan yn dod â chryfder economaidd newydd i Onllwyn ac i'r ardal y mae'n gweithredu ynddi, gan gynnwys holl Gymoedd de Cymru. Credaf y gall ddod yn fagned i dalent o safon fyd-eang a'r rheilffordd weithredol sero net gyntaf erioed, gan gefnogi'r datblygiadau arloesol sydd eu hangen i gyflymu datblygiad technoleg yn y diwydiant rheilffyrdd. Ar hyn o bryd, os ydym am brofi ein cerbydau sy'n rhedeg—y cerbydau newydd sbon hyn sy'n rhedeg—ar reilffyrdd craidd y Cymoedd, mae’n rhaid i ni eu hanfon i Sbaen. Oni fyddai'n haws pe baem yn gallu eu hanfon draw i Gastell-nedd? Dyna gyfle sydd gennym ac mae'n gyfle rwy'n mynd i fod yn pwyso amdano wrth i amser fynd yn ei flaen. Gyda hynny, gyda'r holl ymyriadau, rwy'n credu y byddai'n well imi ddirwyn i ben, Ddirprwy Llywydd. Diolch.
Yn syml iawn, dydy ein system reilffordd ni yng Nghymru ddim yn ffit i bwrpas. Dwi'n gobeithio cael trên cymharol gall i fyny o Gaerdydd i'r gogledd heno; rydym ni sy'n byw yn y gogledd yn gwybod sut brofiad ydy'r siwrnai honno. Mae'r amserlen yn dweud mai pum awr a naw munud fydd y siwrnai gartref i fi heno ar y trên. Ac mae'r geiriau 'rail replacement bus' yn ddigon i godi dychryn ar rywun, ond dyma ydy'r profiad rydym ni'n ei gael mor aml. Faint o weithiau mae trenau syth trwodd yn gorfod newid yng Nghaer ac yn y blaen? Dydy'r system ddim yn ddigon da.
Quite simply, our rail system in Wales is not fit for purpose. I hope to catch a train from Cardiff to north Wales this evening; those of us living in north Wales know what kind of experience that journey is. The timetable says that the journey will be five hours and nine minutes—that'll be my journey home this evening on the train. And the words, 'rail replacement bus' are enough to horrify someone, and this is the experience we have so often. How many direct trains have to change in Chester, and so on? The system isn't good enough.
It is clear to anybody who uses the rail system in Wales that it is not fit for purpose. And you know, in the embers of last year's general election campaign, there lies many a broken promise, but few have proven to be more emblematic, perhaps, of Labour's betrayal than its screeching u-turn on HS2. The current Secretary of State for Wales, Jo Stevens, went to the despatch box and quoted the same numbers as Plaid Cymru does and the £4 billion owed to Wales. But, now that Labour is in power, she has changed her mind, and Labour are doing nothing differently to the Conservatives before them in addressing the injustice of HS2. Hefin David.
Mae’n amlwg i unrhyw un sy’n defnyddio’r system reilffyrdd yng Nghymru nad yw’n addas i'r diben. A wyddoch chi, ym marwor ymgyrch yr etholiad cyffredinol y llynedd, mae llawer o addewidion wedi'u torri, ond ychydig sydd wedi bod yn fwy nodweddiadol, efallai, o frad Llafur na'i thro pedol syfrdanol ar HS2. Aeth Ysgrifennydd Gwladol presennol Cymru, Jo Stevens, i’r blwch dogfennau a dyfynnu’r un ffigurau â Phlaid Cymru a’r £4 biliwn sy’n ddyledus i Gymru. Ond nawr fod Llafur mewn grym, mae wedi newid ei meddwl, ac nid yw Llafur yn gwneud dim yn wahanol i’r Ceidwadwyr o’u blaenau o ran mynd i’r afael ag anghyfiawnder HS2. Hefin David.
I just want to correct a misconception about rail replacement services, the bus replacement services, certainly on the core Valleys line. The reason they're there is because the rail network is being upgraded and it's being improved, so it's actually part of the improvement process; it's only temporary. So, when we say, 'rail replacement bus services', sometimes that's for a very positive purpose.
Hoffwn gywiro camsyniad ynglŷn â gwasanaethau yn lle trenau, y gwasanaethau bysiau yn lle trenau, yn sicr ar linell graidd y Cymoedd. Y rheswm pam eu bod yno yw bod y rhwydwaith rheilffyrdd yn cael ei uwchraddio ac yn cael ei wella, felly mae'n rhan o'r broses wella mewn gwirionedd; dim ond dros dro y bydd yno. Felly, pan ddywedwn, 'gwasanaethau bysiau yn lle trenau', mae hynny at ddiben cadarnhaol iawn weithiau.
Rail replacement isn't part of the enhancement process, of course; it is about fixing things and it's about maintenance. It is not about rail enhancement. It is not about improving the rail system that we have in Wales, which is what we're talking about here today.
But we did hear the Secretary of State for Wales, as I say, make the case for the £4 billion. Mick Antoniw sits here today:
'The UK Government needs to do the right thing and to pay up',
he said. Absolutely right. Jenny Rathbone is here too:
It's certainly going to cost'—
HS2—
'above £100 billion...and what is Wales going to get for it? Absolutely nothing.'
Huw Irranca-Davies isn't here today, but he was right too:
'the HS2 funding and other funding, over many years, and the Northern Powerhouse Rail plans as well. All of that is wrong, and it shouldn’t rely on changes of Government, by the way.'
'Hear, hear' to all of them; I agree entirely.
But there are two separate but interconnected issues at play here: is Wales receiving fair consequentials as a result of HS2? Well, not only is it 'no fair consequential', but there is no consequential for Wales. Designated as an England-and-Wales project, the more spending goes into HS2, the less money there is, effectively, to invest in rail spending in Wales. But, beyond that, does the current system treat Wales fairly when it comes to Network Rail spending on major projects, not fixing things as they go along, but rail enhancement? It certainly doesn't. And again, previously, Members of the Labour benches agreed with us on this issue. Since the year 2000, Wales has received just 2 per cent of total enhancement investment from the England-and-Wales rail enhancement pipeline. The only major scheme delivered has been the electrification of the south Wales main line, but that only went as far as Cardiff, when it was always going to go as far as Swansea, along with a small contribution to the south Wales metro, with Welsh Government having to go into its own not-too-deep pockets to make up for the money that wasn't coming from Westminster.
Now, to put this into perspective, Wales comprises around 10 per cent of the UK's rail network, 5 per cent of the population, yet we're receiving only a fraction of the investment we are due. From 2011-12 to 2019-20, the Wales Governance Centre estimates that Wales was shortchanged by around £0.5 billion in rail infrastructure spending, and there's no sign of the injustice coming to an end.
Nid yw gwasanaethau yn lle trenau yn rhan o'r broses wella, wrth gwrs; mae a wnelo â thrwsio pethau ac mae a wnelo â chynnal a chadw. Nid yw'n ymwneud â gwella rheilffyrdd. Nid yw'n ymwneud â gwella’r system reilffyrdd sydd gennym yng Nghymru, sef yr hyn rydym yn sôn amdano yma heddiw.
Ond clywsom Ysgrifennydd Gwladol Cymru, fel y dywedaf, yn dadlau'r achos dros y £4 biliwn. Mae Mick Antoniw yn eistedd yma heddiw:
'Mae angen i Lywodraeth y DU wneud y peth iawn a thalu'r arian',
meddai. Mae'n llygad ei le. Mae Jenny Rathbone yma hefyd:
'Mae'n sicr yn mynd i gostio'—
HS2—
'dros £100 biliwn…a beth mae Cymru'n mynd i'w gael amdano? Dim byd o gwbl.'
Nid yw Huw Irranca-Davies yma heddiw, ond roedd yntau'n llygad ei le hefyd, cyllid:
'HS2 a chyllid arall, dros nifer o flynyddoedd, a chynlluniau Northern Powerhouse Rail hefyd. Mae hynny i gyd yn anghywir, ac ni ddylai ddibynnu ar newid Llywodraeth, gyda llaw.
'Clywch, clywch' i bob un ohonynt; rwy'n cytuno'n llwyr.
Ond mae dau fater ar wahân ond cydgysylltiedig ar waith yma: a yw Cymru'n cael cyllid canlyniadol teg yn sgil HS2? Wel, nid yn unig nad yw'n cael cyllid canlyniadol teg, nid yw'n cael cyllid canlyniadol o gwbl i Gymru. Gan ei fod wedi'i ddynodi’n brosiect i Gymru a Lloegr, po fwyaf o wariant a wneir ar HS2, y lleiaf o arian sydd ar gael i bob pwrpas i'w fuddsoddi mewn gwariant ar reilffyrdd yng Nghymru. Ond y tu hwnt i hynny, a yw’r system bresennol yn trin Cymru’n deg pan fo Network Rail yn gwario ar brosiectau mawr, nid atgyweirio pethau wrth fynd, ond gwella’r rheilffyrdd? Yn sicr, nac ydy. Ac unwaith eto, yn y gorffennol, roedd Aelodau'r meinciau Llafur yn cytuno â ni ar y mater hwn. Ers y flwyddyn 2000, dim ond 2 y cant o gyfanswm y buddsoddiad i wella’r rheilffyrdd y mae Cymru wedi’i gael o'r arian i wella rhwydwaith rheilffyrdd Cymru a Lloegr. Yr unig gynllun mawr a gyflawnwyd yw trydaneiddio prif linell reilffordd de Cymru, ond dim ond cyn belled â Chaerdydd yr aeth, pan oedd bob amser i fod i fynd cyn belled ag Abertawe, ynghyd â chyfraniad bach i fetro de Cymru, gyda Llywodraeth Cymru yn gorfod mynd i’w phocedi heb fod yn rhy ddwfn ei hun i wneud iawn am yr arian na ddôi o San Steffan.
Nawr, i roi hyn mewn persbectif, mae oddeutu 10 y cant o rwydwaith rheilffyrdd y DU yng Nghymru, a 5 y cant o'r boblogaeth, ac eto dim ond cyfran fach iawn o'r buddsoddiad sy'n ddyledus i ni a gawn. Rhwng 2011-12 a 2019-20, mae Canolfan Llywodraethiant Cymru yn amcangyfrif bod Cymru wedi ei hamddifadu o oddeutu £0.5 biliwn o wariant ar y seilwaith rheilffyrdd, ac nid oes unrhyw arwydd fod yr anghyfiawnder yn dod i ben.
Does yna ddim arwydd bod yr anghyfiawnder ar fin gorffen. Yr Athro Mark Barry—gymaint o awdurdod ar hyn—yn cyfrifo, dan y fformiwla Barnett bresennol, bydd Cymru ar ei cholled o £2.7 biliwn o gyllid pellach ar gyfer ein rheilffyrdd erbyn y 2040au. Mae'r biliynau o bunnoedd yma sydd yn mynd ar goll yn golygu biliynau o bunnoedd yn peidio â'u cael eu buddsoddi yn nyfodol Cymru.
There is no sign that the injustice is coming to an end. Professor Mark Barry—such an authority in this area—calculated, under the current Barnett formula, that Wales would lose out by £2.7 billion in terms of further funding for our railways by the 2040s. These billions of pounds that are going missing means billions of pounds that are not invested in the future of Wales.
Because this isn't just about the past failures to spend properly, it is about our future. If we do not act now, Wales will continue to miss out on critical future investment, leaving our transport network in disrepair while billions are poured into infrastructure elsewhere. And all we ask for, essentially, is fairness. The Welsh Government has to stand up to Keir Starmer and make that case, insist that he rectifies what others in the Labour Party agree with us on, or certainly used to agree with us on, and what we are as determined as ever on these benches to put right. We can’t allow Westminster to continue treating Wales as an afterthought and a poor relation. Think of what we can achieve with this missing investment.
Oherwydd nid ymwneud â'r methiannau yn y gorffennol i wario'n deg yn unig y mae hyn, mae'n ymwneud â'n dyfodol. Os na weithredwn nawr, bydd Cymru’n parhau i gael ei hamddifadu o fuddsoddiad hollbwysig yn y dyfodol, gan adael ein rhwydwaith trafnidiaeth mewn cyflwr gwael tra bo biliynau’n cael eu tywallt i mewn i seilwaith mewn mannau eraill. A’r cyfan y gofynnwn amdano yn y bôn yw tegwch. Rhaid i Lywodraeth Cymru wrthwynebu Keir Starmer a dadlau'r achos, mynnu ei fod yn unioni’r hyn y mae eraill yn y Blaid Lafur yn cytuno â ni yn ei gylch, neu’n sicr yn arfer cytuno â ni yn ei gylch, a’r hyn rydym mor benderfynol ag erioed ar y meinciau hyn i’w unioni. Ni allwn ganiatáu i San Steffan barhau i drin Cymru fel ôl-ystyriaeth. Meddyliwch am yr hyn y gallwn ei gyflawni gyda'r buddsoddiad coll hwn.
Rhun, you need to conclude now, please.
Rhun, mae angen i chi ddod i ben nawr, os gwelwch yn dda.
We must have ambition for our rail infrastructure: electrification—north as well as south; better connectivity; a modern and efficient transport network that supports our economy, our communities and our future generations. The status quo is no longer acceptable.
Rhaid inni gael uchelgais ar gyfer ein seilwaith rheilffyrdd: trydaneiddio—gogledd yn ogystal â'r de; gwell cysylltedd; rhwydwaith trafnidiaeth modern ac effeithlon sy'n cefnogi ein heconomi, ein cymunedau a chenedlaethau'r dyfodol. Nid yw'r status quo yn dderbyniol mwyach.
It's a pleasure to take part in this debate this afternoon, on the subject of rail infrastructure funding—a topic that, despite its importance, has too often been met with neglect and delay in north Wales. There has been historical underfunding of Wales’s railways, particularly in comparison to other parts of the UK. But there is an equally troubling reality within Wales itself, one that sees north Wales routinely treated as a poor relation when it comes to transport investment.
We are told that Wales has suffered from decades of underfunding and rail enhancements. This is true. The UK Labour Government has denied fair funding for HS2, which the Welsh Conservatives supported, as we believe HS2 should have been classed as an England-only project from the start, and so did Labour until they were in office.
The Welsh Government has consistently prioritised investment in the south, while leaving the north with little more than broken promises and empty gestures. While south Wales has been—
Mae'n bleser cymryd rhan yn y ddadl hon y prynhawn yma, ar bwnc cyllid seilwaith rheilffyrdd—pwnc sydd, er gwaethaf ei bwysigrwydd, wedi profi esgeulustod ac oedi yng ngogledd Cymru. Bu tanariannu hanesyddol ar reilffyrdd Cymru, yn enwedig o gymharu â rhannau eraill o'r DU. Ond mae realiti yr un mor ofidus yng Nghymru ei hun, un sy'n gweld gogledd Cymru yn gyson yn cael ei thrin yn wael o ran buddsoddi mewn trafnidiaeth.
Dywedir wrthym fod Cymru wedi dioddef degawdau o danariannu gwelliannau rheilffyrdd. Mae hyn yn wir. Mae Llywodraeth Lafur y DU wedi gwrthod cyllid teg ar gyfer HS2, a gefnogwyd gan y Ceidwadwyr Cymreig, gan ein bod yn credu y dylai HS2 fod wedi cael ei ddynodi'n brosiect i Loegr yn unig o'r dechrau, a Llafur hefyd hyd nes y daethant i rym.
Yn gyson, mae Llywodraeth Cymru wedi rhoi blaenoriaeth i fuddsoddi yn y de, gan adael y gogledd heb fawr mwy nag addewidion gwag. Tra bo de Cymru wedi—
Will you give way?
A wnewch chi ildio?
I'll finish my sentence and then I'll let you in. While south Wales has seen more than £1 billion ploughed into its metro system—an integrated network of heavy rail, light rail and trams—north Wales was handed a meagre £50 million. Alun.
Fe wnaf orffen fy mrawddeg ac fe wnaf adael i chi ddod i mewn wedyn. Tra bo de Cymru wedi gweld mwy na £1 biliwn yn cael ei wario ar ei system metro—rhwydwaith integredig o reilffyrdd trwm, rheilffyrdd ysgafn a thramiau—darparwyd £50 miliwn pitw i ogledd Cymru. Alun.
I'm grateful to you for that. Do you think the greatest deception that you can play on a people or a group or a community is to promise them something, knowing that you are telling a direct lie, and that when Rishi Sunak did that in Manchester over the £1 billion for the electrification of the north Wales main line, he was deliberately deceiving the people that you represent?
Diolch i chi am hynny. A ydych chi'n credu mai'r twyll mwyaf y gallwch ei chwarae ar bobl neu grŵp neu gymuned yw addo rhywbeth iddynt gan wybod eich bod chi'n dweud celwydd noeth, a phan wnaeth Rishi Sunak hynny ym Manceinion gyda'r £1 biliwn ar gyfer trydaneiddio prif reilffordd gogledd Cymru, ei fod yn fwriadol yn twyllo'r bobl yr ydych chi'n eu cynrychioli?
I don't agree. I think that it was subject to the outcome of the election. The Conservatives, unfortunately, weren't returned to Government and we weren't able to carry on with our plans. That was also part of the Network North strategy, which connected towns and cities in the north-west of England, and north Wales was a part of that project. So, I think that you are being slightly disingenuous with your intervention there, Alun.
That is not just a slight imbalance; it is an outright scandal. The north Wales metro, much trumpeted by Ministers in Cardiff bay, remains little more than a rebranding exercise, with next to no meaningful improvements for passengers. And what about the fares? The differences are staggering. In south Wales, you can travel between Swansea and Cardiff for £5.50. A journey of similar length in the north—for example, from Llandudno Junction to Chester—costs more than twice as much as the £5.50. Why should the people of north Wales be forced to pay more for worse services? Where is the fairness in that?
On HS2, even UK Labour Government Ministers, when in opposition, argued that HS2 should be classified as an England-only project. Now, when they have got the reins of power, they appear not to be keen to honour that principle. I say to them: if you truly believe in fairness, and if you genuinely want to see Wales flourish, then deliver the consequential funding that we are owed.
But let us not pretend that the UK Government alone is to blame. The Welsh Government, too, has questions to answer. It’s all very well for Ministers in Cardiff bay to lament underfunding from Westminster, but what have they done with the powers and resources that they already have? Time and again, when given the choice, they have opted to direct investment southwards, while leaving the north with whatever shrapnel was left over.
When they are not funnelling money into vanity schemes and exercises that amount to an irresponsible waste of taxpayers’ money, they are directing the money to the south. This is not just in rail, but in all forms of transport infrastructure. Major road projects in north Wales have been scrapped, while vast sums are poured into schemes in and around Cardiff. This is not a matter of party politics. It’s a matter of basic fairness.
If we truly believe in an equal and united Wales, then we must end the grotesque imbalance that sees one half of our country systematically overlooked. The Welsh Government’s ownership of TfW has been an unmitigated disaster: poor punctuality, overcrowding, overpriced services. Now, passengers across Wales will see regulated rail fares rise up to 6 per cent from this month, following a decision by the Welsh Government. Despite high rail fares and TfW being heavily subsidised by the taxpayer, the company is running at a loss. But how could we expect anything else from a Government of public sector Ministers who have never run a business?
The Plaid Cymru motion highlights, in point 2(b), that funding for the north Wales main line failed to materialise, but why did it fail to materialise? Because we got a Labour Government in Westminster. And, as mentioned, Rikki Sunak pledged £1 billion to electrify the north Wales main line as part of the Network North deal, which was dropped along with the levelling-up agenda, as the Labour Party seek to pump money into their heartlands elsewhere.
So, what, then, is the solution? First, let us insist without equivocation that HS2 is redesignated as an England-only project and that Wales receives the consequential funding it is owed. That money must be spent wisely—
Nid wyf yn cytuno. Rwy'n credu ei fod yn amodol ar ganlyniad yr etholiad. Yn anffodus, ni chafodd y Ceidwadwyr eu dychwelyd yn Llywodraeth ac nid oedd modd i ni barhau â'n cynlluniau. Roedd hynny'n rhan o strategaeth Network North, a oedd yn cysylltu trefi a dinasoedd yng ngogledd-orllewin Lloegr, ac roedd gogledd Cymru yn rhan o'r prosiect hwnnw. Felly, rwy'n credu eich bod braidd yn anonest gyda'ch ymyriad yno, Alun.
Nid ychydig bach o anghydbwysedd yw hynny; mae'n sgandal llwyr. Mae metro gogledd Cymru, a gafodd ei hyrwyddo'n groch gan weinidogion ym mae Caerdydd, yn parhau i fod yn fawr mwy nag ymarfer ailfrandio, heb fawr ddim gwelliannau ystyrlon i deithwyr. A beth am y prisiau? Mae'r gwahaniaethau'n syfrdanol. Yn ne Cymru, gallwch deithio rhwng Abertawe a Chaerdydd am £5.50. Mae taith o hyd tebyg yn y gogledd—o Gyffordd Llandudno i Gaer er enghraifft—yn costio mwy na dwywaith cymaint â £5.50. Pam y dylai pobl gogledd Cymru gael eu gorfodi i dalu mwy am wasanaethau gwaeth? Lle mae'r tegwch yn hynny?
Ar HS2, dadleuodd hyd yn oed Gweinidogion Llywodraeth Lafur y DU, pan oeddent yn wrthblaid, y dylid dynodi HS2 yn brosiect i Loegr yn unig. A hwythau bellach mewn grym, mae'n ymddangos nad ydynt yn awyddus i barchu'r egwyddor honno. Rwy'n dweud wrthynt: os ydych chi wir yn credu mewn tegwch, ac os ydych chi wir eisiau gweld Cymru'n ffynnu, darparwch y cyllid canlyniadol sy'n ddyledus i ni.
Ond gadewch inni beidio ag esgus mai Llywodraeth y DU yn unig sydd ar fai. Mae gan Lywodraeth Cymru gwestiynau i'w hateb hefyd. Un peth yw hi i Weinidogion ym mae Caerdydd resynu at danariannu o San Steffan, ond beth a wnaethant â'r pwerau a'r adnoddau sydd ganddynt eisoes? Dro ar ôl tro, pan roddir y dewis iddynt, maent wedi dewis cyfeirio buddsoddiad tua'r de, gan adael pa bynnag friwsion a oedd ar ôl ar gyfer y gogledd.
Pan nad ydynt yn cyfeirio arian at gynlluniau porthi balchder ac ymarferion sy'n wastraff anghyfrifol ar arian trethdalwyr, maent yn cyfeirio'r arian tuag at y de, a hynny nid yn unig ar y rheilffyrdd, ond ar bob math o seilwaith trafnidiaeth. Mae prosiectau ffyrdd mawr yng ngogledd Cymru wedi cael eu dileu, tra bo symiau enfawr yn cael eu harllwys i mewn i gynlluniau yng Nghaerdydd a'r cyffiniau. Nid mater o wleidyddiaeth bleidiol yw hyn. Mae'n fater o degwch sylfaenol.
Os ydym yn credu o ddifrif mewn Cymru gyfartal ac unedig, mae'n rhaid inni roi diwedd ar yr anghydbwysedd gwrthun sy'n gweld hanner ein gwlad yn cael ei anwybyddu'n systematig. Mae perchnogaeth Llywodraeth Cymru ar Trafnidiaeth Cymru wedi bod yn drychineb llwyr: diffyg prydlondeb, gorlenwi, gwasanaethau rhy ddrud. Nawr, bydd teithwyr ledled Cymru yn gweld prisiau teithiau trên rheoledig yn codi 6 y cant o'r mis hwn ymlaen, yn dilyn penderfyniad gan Lywodraeth Cymru. Er bod prisiau teithio ar y rheilffyrdd yn uchel ac er bod Trafnidiaeth Cymru yn derbyn cymhorthdal mawr gan y trethdalwr, mae'r cwmni'n rhedeg ar golled. Ond sut y gallem ddisgwyl unrhyw beth arall gan Lywodraeth o Weinidogion sector cyhoeddus nad ydynt erioed wedi rhedeg busnes?
Mae cynnig Plaid Cymru yn nodi, ym mhwynt 2(b), na wireddwyd cyllid ar gyfer prif reilffordd gogledd Cymru, ond pam na ddigwyddodd hynny? Oherwydd ein bod wedi cael Llywodraeth Lafur yn San Steffan. Ac fel y soniwyd, addawodd Rikki Sunak £1 biliwn i drydaneiddio prif reilffordd gogledd Cymru fel rhan o gytundeb Network North, a gafodd ei anghofio, ynghyd â'r agenda codi'r gwastad, wrth i'r Blaid Lafur geisio pwmpio arian i'w cadarnleoedd mewn mannau eraill.
Felly, beth yw'r ateb? Yn gyntaf, gadewch inni fynnu'n ddiamwys fod HS2 yn cael ei ailddynodi'n brosiect i Loegr yn unig a bod Cymru'n cael yr arian canlyniadol sy'n ddyledus iddi. Rhaid gwario'r arian hwnnw'n ddoeth—
Gareth, you need to conclude now, please.
Gareth, mae angen ichi orffen nawr, os gwelwch yn dda.
—ensuring that it receives its fair share. This is not about regional rivalry, it’s not about setting north against south, it’s about ensuring that all of Wales has the opportunity to grow and prosper and benefit from the money they pay in tax. It is about fairness, justice and economic common sense. So, let us agree—
—gan sicrhau ei bod yn cael ei chyfran deg. Nid mater o gystadleuaeth ranbarthol yw hyn, nid yw'n ymwneud â gosod y gogledd yn erbyn y de, mae'n ymwneud â sicrhau bod Cymru gyfan yn cael y cyfle i dyfu a ffynnu ac elwa o'r arian y maent yn ei dalu mewn trethi. Mae'n ymwneud â thegwch, cyfiawnder a synnwyr cyffredin economaidd. Felly, gadewch inni gytuno—
Gareth, conclude now, please.
Gareth, dowch i ben nawr, os gwelwch yn dda.
I'm finishing now. So, let us agree to commit to delivering the investment our railways so desperately need right across Wales, and not just in one corner of it.
Rwy'n gorffen nawr. Felly, gadewch inni gytuno i ymrwymo i gyflawni'r buddsoddiad sydd ei angen mor daer ar ein rheilffyrdd ledled Cymru, ac nid un rhan ohoni'n unig.
I've been reading a book called Derailed: How to fix Britain's broken railways, telling us about the history of our railway lines. They've never really been fit for purpose. Britain was the first country to develop passenger rail, but our journey to the present day has never been a straightforward one. If you go back to the beginning, the first railway service was between Liverpool and Manchester. It opened in 1830 and prompted a huge boom in railway construction. Competing railways began to spring up, often building duplicate infrastructure. So, they competed with each other and didn’t actually join up. They served passengers, but then also Britain’s heavy industry, such as coal, iron and steel.
World war one led to a more co-ordinated railway service and some joining up, and the system was temporarily nationalised before being handed over to the big four by the Railways Act 1921, privatising it again, only to be renationalised yet again after world war two, as intensive use and bombing meant significant state investment was required. So, we’ve not had a steady influx of proper funding over the 200 years. By the 1990s, British Rail was the most economically efficient of the western European railway systems with only low levels of state subsidy, but that wasn’t acceptable then to the dogmatic Tories of the early 1990s, and Thatcher promptly sold off British Rail and put us backwards again. What they failed to understand was that railways will never be a commercially driven business, but should be a public service whose state subsidy is justified by the enormous social and environmental benefits that the railways provide to everyone.
These benefits extend to freight trains, as well as passenger. One freight train can transport enough construction materials for around 30 houses, compared to up to 136 heavy goods vehicles. It's crucial for the environment, housing and job creation. Wales’s total benefits from railways in 2018-19 amounted to £260 million, representing 11 per cent of the total GB benefits. This includes £200 million in user benefits and £60 million in social benefits. Wales has the second highest overall benefits per capita in GB.
I’m pleased to say that we have a Labour Government now in the UK that has made a commitment to end rail franchising and bring rail services back into the public sector, where they belong. In Wales, we already do that, and we can demonstrate the benefits of a publicly owned rail operator in Transport for Wales, which is focusing on delivery for passengers, rather than profit. I remember when we had the strikes and Transport for Wales said, 'We’re going to keep our ticket offices open; we’re not going to have closures. We’re going to make sure that there are still guards and services, which is really important for all our passengers', and I was really proud that we’ve got Transport for Wales here in Wales that cares about people.
I will continue to call for significant infrastructure investment that is owed to Wales. I do believe we’re entitled to our fair share of HS2, and I’ve called for it. It was wrong that it was denied to us previously. Bids were made for levelling-up funding as well, for many schemes in north Wales, and that was also denied to us. I hope that schemes will come forward soon. I know that we've had some funding already to improve the timetables across north Wales and Wrexham to Bidston. I know we've got funding to improve stations. I know it's a little bit at a time, but it's all welcome.
Rwyf wedi bod yn darllen llyfr o'r enw Derailed: How to fix Britain's broken railways, yn dweud wrthym am hanes ein rheilffyrdd. Nid ydynt erioed wedi bod yn addas at y diben mewn gwirionedd. Prydain oedd y wlad gyntaf i ddatblygu rheilffyrdd ar gyfer teithwyr, ond ni fu ein taith i'r presennol erioed yn un syml. Os ewch yn ôl i'r dechrau, roedd y gwasanaeth rheilffordd cyntaf rhwng Lerpwl a Manceinion. Agorodd yn 1830 ac ysgogodd lwyddiant enfawr ym maes adeiladu rheilffyrdd. Dechreuodd rheilffyrdd cystadleuol ddatblygu, gan adeiladu seilwaith dyblyg yn aml. Felly, roeddent yn cystadlu â'i gilydd ac nid yn cysylltu â'i gilydd. Roeddent yn gwasanaethu teithwyr, a diwydiant trwm Prydain hefyd, fel glo, haearn a dur.
Arweiniodd y rhyfel byd cyntaf at wasanaeth rheilffordd mwy cydlynol gyda rhai rhannau'n cysylltu, a gwladolwyd y system dros dro cyn cael ei throsglwyddo i'r pedwar mawr gan Ddeddf Rheilffyrdd 1921, ei breifateiddio eto, a'i ailwladoli eto ar ôl yr ail ryfel byd, wrth i ddefnydd dwys a bomio alw am fuddsoddiad sylweddol gan y wladwriaeth. Felly, nid ydym wedi cael llif cyson o gyllid priodol dros y 200 mlynedd. Erbyn y 1990au, British Rail oedd y mwyaf effeithlon yn economaidd o blith systemau rheilffyrdd gorllewin Ewrop gyda lefelau isel yn unig o gymhorthdal gan y wladwriaeth, ond nid oedd hynny'n dderbyniol bryd hynny i Dorïaid dogmatig y 1990au cynnar, ac yn fuan, gwerthodd Thatcher British Rail a mynd â ni wysg ein cefnau eto. Yr hyn nad oeddent yn ei ddeall oedd na fydd rheilffyrdd byth yn fusnes sy'n cael ei yrru'n fasnachol, ond yn hytrach y dylent fod yn wasanaeth cyhoeddus y mae ei gymhorthdal gwladol yn cael ei gyfiawnhau gan y buddion cymdeithasol ac amgylcheddol enfawr y mae'r rheilffyrdd yn eu darparu i bawb.
Mae'r buddion hyn yn cynnwys trenau cludo nwyddau, yn ogystal â theithwyr. Gall un trên cludo nwyddau gludo digon o ddeunyddiau i adeiladu tua 30 o dai, o'i gymharu â hyd at 136 o gerbydau nwyddau trwm. Mae'n hanfodol ar gyfer yr amgylchedd, tai a chreu swyddi. Roedd cyfanswm buddion rheilffyrdd i Gymru yn 2018-19 yn £260 miliwn, sef 11 y cant o gyfanswm y buddion i Brydain. Mae hyn yn cynnwys £200 miliwn mewn buddion defnyddwyr a £60 miliwn mewn buddion cymdeithasol. Cymru sydd â'r buddion cyffredinol ail uchaf y pen ym Mhrydain.
Rwy'n falch o ddweud bod gennym Lywodraeth Lafur nawr yn y DU sydd wedi ymrwymo i roi diwedd ar fasnachfreinio rheilffyrdd ac i ddod â gwasanaethau rheilffyrdd yn ôl i'r sector cyhoeddus, lle maent i fod. Yng Nghymru, rydym eisoes yn gwneud hynny, a gallwn ddangos manteision gweithredwr rheilffyrdd sy'n eiddo cyhoeddus yn Trafnidiaeth Cymru, sy'n canolbwyntio ar ddarparu ar gyfer teithwyr yn hytrach nag elw. Rwy'n cofio pan gawsom y streiciau a dywedodd Trafnidiaeth Cymru, 'Rydym yn mynd i gadw ein swyddfeydd tocynnau ar agor; ni fyddwn yn cau. Rydym yn mynd i sicrhau bod gardiaid a gwasanaethau o hyd, sy'n bwysig iawn i'n holl deithwyr', ac roeddwn yn falch iawn fod gennym Trafnidiaeth Cymru yma yng Nghymru sy'n malio am bobl.
Byddaf yn parhau i alw am fuddsoddiad seilwaith sylweddol sy'n ddyledus i Gymru. Rwy'n credu bod gennym hawl i'n cyfran deg o HS2, ac rwyf wedi galw amdano. Roedd yn anghywir iddo gael ei wrthod i ni'n flaenorol. Gwnaed ceisiadau am gyllid codi'r gwastad hefyd, ar gyfer llawer o gynlluniau yng ngogledd Cymru, a gwrthodwyd hwnnw i ni hefyd. Rwy'n gobeithio y bydd cynlluniau'n cael eu cyflwyno'n fuan. Rwy'n gwybod ein bod eisoes wedi cael cyllid i wella'r amserlenni ar draws gogledd Cymru a Wrecsam i Bidston. Rwy'n gwybod bod gennym gyllid i wella gorsafoedd. Rwy'n gwybod mai ychydig ar y tro ydyw, ond mae croeso i'r cyfan ohono.
Carolyn, will you take an intervention?
Carolyn, a wnewch chi dderbyn ymyriad?
Yes, sure.
Gwnaf, wrth gwrs.
I'm glad to hear that you're supporting greater investment and more funding for rail in Wales. Can you explain why your Government has put a ‘delete all’ down to this motion and isn't supporting what you're stating today?
Rwy'n falch o glywed eich bod yn cefnogi mwy o fuddsoddiad a mwy o gyllid ar gyfer rheilffyrdd yng Nghymru. A allwch chi egluro pam y mae eich Llywodraeth wedi rhoi 'dileu popeth' ar y cynnig hwn a pham nad yw'n cefnogi'r hyn rydych chi'n ei ddweud heddiw?
I will say that I will support all funding, any extra we can get, whether it's the bits for station improvements, which I really welcome, or the fact we're investing in Transport for Wales, £800 million for new carriages. If we can get more money that was designated under HS2 as well, fair enough, and that's where I stand, okay?
I understand that progress is being made now by the Cabinet Secretary for Transport and North Wales with the Secretary of State for Wales and the Secretary of State for Transport regarding railway investment, and while the damage of 14—[Interruption.]
Rwyf am ddweud y byddaf yn cefnogi pob cyllid, unrhyw arian ychwanegol y gallwn ei gael, boed yn dameidiau ar gyfer gwella gorsafoedd, rhywbeth rwy'n ei groesawu'n fawr, neu'r ffaith ein bod yn buddsoddi yn Trafnidiaeth Cymru, £800 miliwn ar gerbydau trên newydd. Os gallwn gael mwy o'r arian a ddynodwyd o dan HS2 hefyd, digon teg, a dyna lle rwyf i'n sefyll, iawn?
Rwy'n deall bod cynnydd yn cael ei wneud nawr gan Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet dros Drafnidiaeth a Gogledd Cymru gydag Ysgrifennydd Gwladol Cymru a'r Ysgrifennydd Gwladol dros Drafnidiaeth ynghylch buddsoddiad rheilffyrdd, ac er bod niwed y 14—[Torri ar draws.]
Ignore the comments from people who are sitting down. You can just continue your contribution.
Anwybyddwch y sylwadau gan bobl yn eu seddi. Gallwch barhau â'ch cyfraniad.
I should ignore them, shouldn't I? The two Governments have reached a mutual understanding of requirements that are needed specifically. We don't need electrification on the north Wales line at the moment. We need to have extra capacity at Chester. We need to get that station built at Deeside industrial park. We need to get the north Wales main line sorted, so that we don't have flooding on it. These things are more important for us, that we get those in place. So, there's much that we need to do, to get back on, to actually enable HS2 funding. As long as we're getting some money coming in at the moment, I'm really pleased. We need to keep it going, and I know that those points are being made at the moment, and we need to keep fighting. Thank you.
Dylwn eu hanwybyddu, oni ddylwn? Mae'r ddwy Lywodraeth wedi dod i gyd-ddealltwriaeth ynghylch y gofynion sydd eu hangen yn benodol. Nid oes angen trydaneiddio lein gogledd Cymru ar hyn o bryd. Mae angen inni gael capasiti ychwanegol yng Nghaer. Mae angen inni adeiladu'r orsaf ym mharc diwydiannol Glannau Dyfrdwy. Mae angen inni gael trefn ar brif lein gogledd Cymru, fel nad oes gennym lifogydd arni. Mae'r pethau hyn yn bwysicach i ni, ein bod yn cael y rheini yn eu lle. Felly, mae llawer y mae angen inni ei wneud, i fynd yn ôl, i alluogi cyllid HS2 mewn gwirionedd. Cyn belled â'n bod ni'n cael peth arian yn dod i mewn ar hyn o bryd, rwy'n falch iawn. Mae angen inni ei gadw i fynd, a gwn fod y pwyntiau hynny'n cael eu gwneud ar hyn o bryd, ac mae angen inni barhau i ymladd. Diolch.
Hefin's right: objectively, train services have got better, especially from my perspective as someone who lives in Pencoed. I've got two trains an hour now; I'm not looking at the clock when we're getting late in the evening and thinking, ‘Am I going to catch the next train? Am I going to have to wait an extra hour and a half to get the next train?’ There are two trains now; they’re cleaner, they’re modern, but that isn't the case everywhere.
In Pencoed, we have that improvement. If you go to the other side of the region I represent, to the western Valleys, well, the provision isn't there at all. If we go to other parts of Wales, to north Wales, to west Wales, again provision is incredibly patchy, and that's where I'm worried slightly that the point of this debate might be missed, because the reality is, if we had that investment, if we had that money that was owed, then we could have invested in the western Valleys. We could have invested in a train line from Carmarthen to Aberystwyth. We could have invested in better provision in north Wales, and the reality is that that lack of investment, that infrastructure investment, has dampened our economy.
Every year, our local economies lose billions of pounds collectively due to those rail inefficiencies, those poor infrastructure and service provisions. Here in Wales, those are hitting our local economies particularly hard. The cost of lost productivity and stifled economic development is staggering even before considering the deeper inequalities in rail infrastructure investment. Other countries like China, Japan and Germany treat infrastructure as the backbone of economic growth, but here in Wales, it's not that we don't want to prioritise infrastructure investment, it's that we simply can't give it the same level of priority. And to be fair, that might have something to do with the Government not having the levers necessary to develop our own transport network. Westminster has clearly shown no intention of stepping up, but that doesn't excuse it.
Let's not forget that the Welsh Government decided to turn down greater powers over rail. Let's not forget that, now there's a Labour Government in London, the figure owed to Wales is less than it was before the election. You know what that is? It's an absolute joke. Labour Members here have gone back on what they were saying prior to the election. It's quite frankly embarrassing, and this neglect shows simply the regional inequalities in what is a dysfunctional union, putting Wales at a serious disadvantage compared to other parts of the UK. It restricts our economic potential, it deters investment and it drives skilled workers elsewhere, and we are seeing the consequences of this neglect in real time.
It's perfectly encapsulated with the construction of Old Oak Common as part of HS2. That will cause massive disruption for passengers travelling on lines in south Wales, yet the Welsh Government has been unable to provide any clarity on which stations will be impacted and how frequently passengers can expect disruptions. Perhaps we can be provided with some clarity on that today by the Cabinet Secretary. Perhaps even the Cabinet Secretary could provide some clarity on whether Wales will get any compensation for that disruption, because this is just another cost to Wales of this project that we are paying for but will receive no benefit from. If Wales is to prosper, we must have control over our own transport infrastructure to build our own infrastructure and ensure Westminster can’t hold back funding that we are entitled to again. It really is as simple as that.
Mae Hefin yn iawn: yn wrthrychol, mae gwasanaethau trên wedi gwella, yn enwedig o fy safbwynt i fel rhywun sy'n byw ym Mhencoed. Mae gennyf ddau drên yr awr nawr; nid wyf yn edrych ar y cloc pan fyddwn ni'n hwyr gyda'r nos ac yn meddwl, 'A wyf i'n mynd i ddal y trên nesaf? A wyf i'n mynd i orfod aros awr a hanner ychwanegol i gael y trên nesaf?' Mae dau drên erbyn hyn; maent yn lanach, maent yn fodern, ond nid yw hynny'n wir ym mhobman.
Ym Mhencoed, rydym yn gweld gwelliant. Os ewch chi i ochr arall y rhanbarth rwy'n ei gynrychioli, i Gymoedd y gorllewin, wel, nid yw'r ddarpariaeth yno o gwbl. Os awn i rannau eraill o Gymru, i ogledd Cymru, i orllewin Cymru, unwaith eto mae'r ddarpariaeth yn hynod o anghyson, a dyna lle rwy'n poeni braidd y gallai pwynt y ddadl hon gael ei golli, oherwydd y gwir amdani yw, pe byddem wedi cael y buddsoddiad hwnnw, pe byddem wedi cael yr arian sy'n ddyledus, gallem fod wedi buddsoddi yng Nghymoedd y gorllewin. Gallem fod wedi buddsoddi mewn lein trên o Gaerfyrddin i Aberystwyth. Gallem fod wedi buddsoddi mewn gwell darpariaeth yng ngogledd Cymru, a'r gwir amdani yw bod y diffyg buddsoddiad yn y seilwaith wedi llesteirio ein heconomi.
Bob blwyddyn, mae ein heconomïau lleol yn colli biliynau o bunnoedd gyda'i gilydd oherwydd aneffeithlonrwydd rheilffyrdd, y seilwaith a'r darpariaethau gwasanaeth gwael. Yma yng Nghymru, mae'r rheini'n taro ein heconomïau lleol yn arbennig o galed. Mae cost cynhyrchiant a gollwyd a datblygiad economaidd a fygwyd yn syfrdanol hyd yn oed cyn ystyried anghydraddoldebau dyfnach y buddsoddiad yn y seilwaith rheilffyrdd. Mae gwledydd eraill fel Tsieina, Japan a'r Almaen yn trin seilwaith fel asgwrn cefn i dwf economaidd, ond yma yng Nghymru, nid yw'n fater o beidio â bod eisiau blaenoriaethu buddsoddiad mewn seilwaith, ond yn hytrach, na allwn roi'r un lefel o flaenoriaeth iddo. Ac i fod yn deg, gallai fod gan hynny rywbeth i'w wneud â'r ffaith nad oes gan y Llywodraeth y dulliau sy'n angenrheidiol i ddatblygu ein rhwydwaith trafnidiaeth ein hunain. Mae'n amlwg nad yw San Steffan wedi dangos unrhyw fwriad i gamu i'r adwy, ond nid yw hynny'n ei esgusodi.
Gadewch inni beidio ag anghofio bod Llywodraeth Cymru wedi penderfynu gwrthod mwy o bwerau dros y rheilffyrdd. Gadewch inni beidio ag anghofio, gan fod Llywodraeth Lafur yn Llundain bellach, fod y ffigur sy'n ddyledus i Gymru yn llai na'r hyn ydoedd cyn yr etholiad. A ydych chi'n gwybod beth yw hynny? Jôc lwyr, dyna ydyw. Mae Aelodau Llafur yma wedi mynd yn ôl ar eu gair cyn yr etholiad. Mae'n embaras a dweud y gwir, ac mae'r esgeulustod yn dangos yr anghydraddoldebau rhanbarthol mewn undeb camweithredol, gan roi Cymru dan anfantais ddifrifol o'i chymharu â rhannau eraill o'r DU. Mae'n cyfyngu ar ein potensial economaidd, mae'n atal buddsoddiad ac mae'n hel gweithwyr medrus i fannau eraill, ac rydym yn gweld canlyniadau'r esgeulustod hwn mewn amser real.
Mae wedi'i grynhoi'n berffaith gydag adeiladu Old Oak Common yn rhan o HS2. Bydd y gwaith hwnnw'n achosi aflonyddwch enfawr i deithwyr sy'n teithio ar reilffyrdd yn ne Cymru, ac eto nid yw Llywodraeth Cymru wedi gallu rhoi unrhyw eglurhad ynghylch pa orsafoedd yr effeithir arnynt a pha mor aml y gall teithwyr ddisgwyl aflonyddwch. Efallai y gallwn gael rhywfaint o eglurder ar hynny heddiw gan Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet. Efallai y gallai Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet egluro a fydd Cymru'n cael unrhyw iawndal am yr aflonyddwch, oherwydd mae'n gost arall i Gymru yn sgil y prosiect hwn yr ydym yn talu amdano ond na fyddwn yn cael unrhyw fudd ohono. Os yw Cymru'n mynd i ffynnu, rhaid inni gael rheolaeth dros ein seilwaith trafnidiaeth ein hunain i adeiladu ein seilwaith ein hunain a sicrhau na all San Steffan unwaith eto ddal eu gafael ar arian y mae gennym ni hawl iddo. Mae mor syml â hynny.
This is really quite depressing, this debate, for two reasons. One is that those two parties just want to tear chunks out of each other for not doing what the other one thinks they should be doing. And the second reason—and I am very frustrated with the Welsh Government—is the 'delete all' that you've put on the motion, because I challenge every single one of you here just to reread what the motion calls for. With the greatest of respect to my Labour colleagues, let's just remind ourselves. Do tell me what you disagree with here. I do welcome this motion. It says:
'Calls on the Welsh Government to provide updated figures on the shortfall in rail enhancement investment in Wales'.
What's wrong with that? Secondly:
'confirm its position that HS2 should be redesignated as an England-only project and that Wales should receive the resultant consequentials in line with figures quoted by current UK Government Ministers when in opposition'.
What's wrong with that? And thirdly:
'write to the UK Secretary of State for Transport to ask for the full consequentials to be made available to Wales and reversal of low levels of enhancement spending.'
That is the focus and the ask of this debate. We all accept that services could be better elsewhere, in 'where I live' or whatever, but it's not about that. I feel these Wednesday afternoon debates are really the opposition parties putting down a motion and the Welsh Government saying 'delete all', and it feels like on this occasion just for the point of doing it. That depresses me beyond belief, because it would be so easy for you to accept it or at least to just enhance it in some way. So, please, could the Cabinet Secretary, who I have the greatest respect for, please tell us why you have decided to delete all and not accept any of the issues and the requests by Plaid Cymru in this motion, which I do welcome?
I think you have to accept that UK Conservative Governments and UK Labour Governments have failed us here in Wales by really actively not designating HS2 as England only and demanding that we have the amounts of money from it—[Interruption.] Can I just finish this point? Honestly, I will come to you. And demanding that we have the money from it. Yes, thank you.
Mae'r ddadl hon yn dorcalonnus am ddau reswm. Un yw bod y ddwy blaid ond eisiau lladd ar ei gilydd am beidio â gwneud yr hyn y mae'r llall yn credu y dylent ei wneud. A'r ail reswm—ac rwy'n rhwystredig iawn gyda Llywodraeth Cymru—yw'r 'dileu'r cyfan' a roesoch ar y cynnig, oherwydd rwy'n herio pob un ohonoch chi yma i ailddarllen yr hyn y mae'r cynnig yn galw amdano. Gyda'r parch mwyaf at fy nghyd-Aelodau Llafur, gadewch inni atgoffa ein hunain. Dywedwch wrthyf beth yr anghytunwch ag ef yma. Rwy'n croesawu'r cynnig. Mae'n dweud:
'Yn galw ar Lywodraeth Cymru i ddarparu'r ffigurau diweddaraf ar y diffyg buddsoddiad i wella rheilffyrdd yng Nghymru'.
Beth sydd o'i le ar hynny? Yn ail:
'cadarnhau ei safbwynt y dylid ailddynodi HS2 yn brosiect i Loegr yn unig ac y dylai Cymru gael y symiau canlyniadol yn unol â ffigurau a ddyfynnwyd gan Weinidogion presennol Llywodraeth y DU pan oedd yn wrthblaid'.
Beth sydd o'i le ar hynny? Ac yn drydydd:
'ysgrifennu at Ysgrifennydd Gwladol dros Drafnidiaeth y DU i ofyn i'r symiau canlyniadol llawn gael eu rhyddhau i Gymru a gwrthdroi lefelau isel o wariant ar welliannau.'
Dyna yw'r ffocws a'r hyn y mae'r ddadl hon yn gofyn amdano. Rydym i gyd yn derbyn y gallai gwasanaethau fod yn well yn rhywle arall, yn 'lle rwy'n byw' neu beth bynnag, ond nid yw'n ymwneud â hynny. Rwy'n teimlo mai'r hyn sy'n digwydd yn y dadleuon prynhawn Mercher hyn mewn gwirionedd yw bod y gwrthbleidiau'n cyflwyno cynnig a Llywodraeth Cymru yn dweud 'dileu popeth', ac mae'n teimlo ar yr achlysur hwn nad oes mwy o bwynt na hynny iddo. Mae hynny'n fy nigalonni'n enfawr, oherwydd byddai mor hawdd i chi ei dderbyn neu o leiaf ei wella mewn rhyw ffordd. Felly, os gwelwch yn dda, a allai Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet, y mae gennyf y parch mwyaf tuag ato, ddweud wrthym pam eich bod wedi penderfynu dileu popeth a pheidio â derbyn unrhyw un o'r materion a'r ceisiadau gan Blaid Cymru yn y cynnig hwn, cynnig rwy'n ei groesawu?
Rwy'n credu bod rhaid i chi dderbyn bod Llywodraethau Ceidwadol y DU a Llywodraethau Llafur y DU wedi gwneud cam â ni yma yng Nghymru drwy fynd ati i beidio â dynodi HS2 yn brosiect ar gyfer Lloegr yn unig a mynnu ein bod yn cael y symiau o arian ohono—[Torri ar draws.] A gaf i orffen y pwynt hwn? Fe ddof atoch chi. A mynnu ein bod yn cael yr arian ohono. Ie, diolch.
I agree with you. I think it's a chronic shame that the Conservatives in Government didn't designate this as an England-only project, like they did with Scotland and Northern Ireland, and Wales received the Barnett consequentials. I agree entirely. But I do find it a little bit rich because you had five years in Government. You had the transport Minister there—Norman Baker, I think it was—and in those five years, where HS2 was in its construction stage, not one single Lib Dem made the request to make that an England-only project in those five years in Government.
Rwy'n cytuno â chi. Rwy'n credu ei bod yn drueni mawr na wnaeth y Ceidwadwyr mewn Llywodraeth ddynodi hwn yn brosiect i Loegr yn unig, fel y gwnaethant gyda'r Alban a Gogledd Iwerddon, a bod Cymru'n cael y symiau canlyniadol Barnett. Rwy'n cytuno'n llwyr. Ond rwy'n teimlo eich bod braidd yn hy, oherwydd fe gawsoch chi bum mlynedd yn y Llywodraeth. Roedd gennych Weinidog trafnidiaeth yno—Norman Baker, rwy'n credu—a dros y pum mlynedd, pan oedd HS2 yn cael ei adeiladu, ni wnaeth yr un Democrat Rhyddfrydol gais i wneud y prosiect yn un ar gyfer Lloegr yn unig mewn pum mlynedd yn rhan o'r Llywodraeth.
Thank you. I'll accept that. I'm not going to be standing here like I'm afraid you lot are saying 'Not my fault'. But thank you for saying that you would accept it. I think it's a disgrace that we are still where we are with HS2. I've always said that, where the Liberal Democrats have played a role in that, I accept responsibility for that. So, I'm not going to just shrug it off as a kind of 'Not my fault', because I accept that.
I do just want to make some quick other points, if I may. We heard, didn't we, from the journalist Will Hayward saying that this was the great Welsh train robbery, and that's indeed what it is. Let's accept it for what it is. It's absolutely unacceptable that we still see the situation that we're in here in Wales. I would like to hear from the Welsh Government just what they are going to do to get the HS2 consequentials in here. It's not a big ask. So, please, can we enhance the quality of the debates we have here, both on a Wednesday afternoon and specifically this one, by perhaps accepting that the asks put forward by the Plaid Cymru motion are not unreasonable and actually will help every single party in this Senedd and help the Welsh people? Diolch yn fawr iawn.
Diolch. Fe wnaf dderbyn hynny. Nid wyf yn mynd i sefyll yma a gwneud fel rydych chi'n ei wneud, a dweud 'Nid fy mai i'. Ond diolch am ddweud y byddech yn ei dderbyn. Rwy'n credu ei bod yn warthus ein bod yn dal i fod yn y sefyllfa rydym ynddi gyda HS2. Rwyf wedi dweud erioed, lle mae'r Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol wedi chwarae rhan yn hynny, rwy'n derbyn cyfrifoldeb am hynny. Felly, nid wyf am godi fy ysgwyddau a dweud 'Nid fy mai i', oherwydd rwy'n derbyn hynny.
Rwyf eisiau gwneud pwyntiau eraill cyflym, os caf. Fe glywsom, onid wnaethom, y newyddiadurwr Will Hayward yn dweud mai hwn oedd lladrad trên mawr Cymru, a dyna ydyw. Gadewch inni ei dderbyn am yr hyn ydyw. Mae'n gwbl annerbyniol ein bod yn dal i weld y sefyllfa yr ydym ynddi yma yng Nghymru. Hoffwn glywed gan Lywodraeth Cymru beth y bwriadant ei wneud i gael symiau canlyniadol HS2 yma. Nid yw'n llawer i'w ofyn. Felly, os gwelwch yn dda, a gawn ni wella ansawdd y dadleuon a gawn yma ar brynhawn Mercher, a hon yn enwedig, trwy dderbyn efallai nad yw'r hyn y gofynnwyd amdano yn y cynnig a gyflwynwyd gan Blaid Cymru yn afresymol, ac y byddai'n helpu pob plaid yn y Senedd hon ac yn helpu pobl Cymru? Diolch yn fawr iawn.
I very much agree with the points that have just been made, actually. Welsh Governments have been coming to this Chamber for many, many years with 'delete all' amendments; I don't think it's ever enhanced the debate or enhanced the standing of the Government amongst all Members. I don't believe that's the correct way of approaching these debates. We should look for consensus, where possible—and that's coming from me—across the Chamber. It won't last, don't worry. But we should look towards amending motions rather than deleting them. I think that's a good principle. Because I have to say, I'm not entirely happy with either the motion or the amendment. I think there's a very real crisis for us in Wales when we talk about our rail infrastructure. It's a crisis for Wales and it's a crisis for the union.
Wales is the only part of the United Kingdom that doesn't have the power to deliver an integrated transport network. It's the only part of the UK. They can do it in Northern Ireland, they can do it in Scotland, they can do it in parts of England, independently of the UK Government. In Wales, we have to go as a supplicant to the UK Government and beg for crumbs off the table, and we all know where that largely gets us. It's a crisis, because the chronic underfunding of the Welsh rail network has happened systematically over decades. And we can point fingers across this Chamber. The Labour Party is as guilty of that as is the Conservative Party. But the responsibility on this party, as the party that has a majority here, is that we need to do something about it. We need change. [Interruption.] I'll give way.
Rwy'n cytuno'n fawr â'r pwyntiau sydd newydd gael eu gwneud. Mae Llywodraethau Cymru wedi bod yn dod i'r Siambr hon ers blynyddoedd lawer gyda gwelliannau 'dileu popeth'; nid wyf yn credu ei fod erioed wedi gwella'r ddadl nac wedi gwella statws y Llywodraeth ymhlith yr holl Aelodau. Nid wyf yn credu mai dyna'r ffordd gywir o fynd i'r afael â'r dadleuon hyn. Dylem chwilio am gonsensws, lle bo'n bosibl—a daw hynny oddi wrthyf i—ar draws y Siambr. Nid yw'n mynd i bara, peidiwch â phoeni. Ond dylem edrych ar ddiwygio cynigion yn hytrach na'u dileu. Rwy'n credu bod honno'n egwyddor dda. Oherwydd mae'n rhaid imi ddweud, nid wyf yn gwbl hapus â'r cynnig na'r gwelliant. Rwy'n credu bod yna argyfwng real iawn yn ein hwynebu yng Nghymru pan siaradwn am ein seilwaith rheilffyrdd. Mae'n argyfwng i Gymru ac mae'n argyfwng i'r undeb.
Cymru yw'r unig ran o'r Deyrnas Unedig sydd heb bŵer i ddarparu rhwydwaith trafnidiaeth integredig. Yr unig ran o'r DU. Gallant ei wneud yng Ngogledd Iwerddon, gallant ei wneud yn yr Alban, gallant ei wneud mewn rhannau o Loegr, yn annibynnol ar Lywodraeth y DU. Yng Nghymru, rhaid inni fynd i ymbil wrth Lywodraeth y DU ac erfyn am friwsion oddi ar y bwrdd, ac rydym i gyd yn gwybod ble mae hynny'n mynd â ni yn amlach na pheidio. Mae'n argyfwng, oherwydd mae tanariannu rhwydwaith rheilffyrdd Cymru wedi bod yn digwydd yn systematig dros ddegawdau. A gallwn bwyntio bysedd ar draws y Siambr hon. Mae'r Blaid Lafur yr un mor euog am hynny â'r Blaid Geidwadol. Ond cyfrifoldeb y blaid hon, fel y blaid sydd â mwyafrif yma, yw bod angen inni wneud rhywbeth yn ei gylch. Mae angen newid. [Torri ar draws.] Fe ildiaf.
Diolch, Alun. I wanted to press you on the points of HS2, because there's a lot where I think that we are in agreement here. Do you share my frustration with the current stance of the Welsh Government, which seems to be unclear on the HS2 billions? Keynes is credited with saying that
'When the facts change, I change my mind.'
It seems to me that, when Westminster's minds have changed, the facts are trying to be changed as well.
Diolch, Alun. Roeddwn eisiau gofyn i chi am y pwyntiau ar HS2, oherwydd mae yna lawer y credaf ein bod yn cytuno yn ei gylch yma. A ydych chi'n rhannu fy rhwystredigaeth ynglŷn â safbwynt presennol Llywodraeth Cymru, sydd i'w weld yn aneglur ar biliynau HS2? Yn ôl y sôn, Keynes a ddywedodd
'Pan fo'r ffeithiau'n newid, rwyf innau'n newid fy meddwl.'
Mae'n ymddangos i mi, pan fydd meddyliau San Steffan wedi newid, fod yna ymgais i newid y ffeithiau yn ogystal.
I don't want this debate simply to fall into a debate about whether it's this many million or that many million. What we need is structural change—structural change that means that whenever money is spent by the UK Government, Wales gets a fair Barnett consequential of that, as do Scotland and Northern Ireland, and that is done as part of a settlement that means that Wales is treated as an equal part of this union. The structural underfunding of rail in Wales means that my constituency, or the constituency I hope to stand in in the next election, has one railway that is devolved, as in the Rhymney valley line—and we've heard from Hefin David on some of those issues—which is part of the core Valleys lines, which means it will be electrified and we will have new trains and a metro system running there, but the other half of the constituency is served by the Ebbw valley line, which is not devolved, and where we have struggled for two decades to get funding for it. Tell the people of the Ebbw Fach valley why they do not have the right to the same service as the people in the Rhymney valley, and then tell those people that we have a settlement that works for Wales. It's not possible. It shouldn't happen, and we need a settlement that is fair for everybody in Wales. [Interruption.] I give way.
Nid wyf am i'r ddadl hon ddirywio'n ddadl ynglŷn â faint o filiynau ydyw. Yr hyn sydd ei angen arnom yw newid strwythurol—newid strwythurol sy'n golygu, pryd bynnag y bydd arian yn cael ei wario gan Lywodraeth y DU, fod Cymru'n cael swm canlyniadol Barnett teg ohono, fel y mae'r Alban a Gogledd Iwerddon yn ei gael, a bod hynny'n cael ei wneud yn rhan o setliad sy'n golygu bod Cymru'n cael ei thrin fel rhan gyfartal o'r undeb hwn. Mae tanariannu strwythurol rheilffyrdd yng Nghymru yn golygu bod gan fy etholaeth, neu'r etholaeth rwy'n gobeithio sefyll ynddi yn yr etholiad nesaf, un rheilffordd wedi'i datganoli, sef llinell cwm Rhymni—ac rydym wedi clywed gan Hefin David ar rai o'r materion hynny—sy'n rhan o linellau craidd y Cymoedd, sy'n golygu y bydd yn cael ei thrydaneiddio a bydd gennym drenau newydd a system metro yn rhedeg yno, ond mae hanner arall yr etholaeth yn cael ei gwasanaethu gan linell Glynebwy, nad yw wedi ei datganoli, a lle rydym wedi brwydro ers dau ddegawd i gael cyllid ar ei chyfer. Dywedwch wrth bobl cwm Ebwy Fach pam nad oes ganddynt hawl i'r un gwasanaeth â'r bobl yng nghwm Rhymni, a dywedwch wrth y bobl hynny fod gennym setliad sy'n gweithio i Gymru. Nid yw'n bosibl. Ni ddylai ddigwydd, ac mae angen setliad sy'n deg i bawb yng Nghymru. [Torri ar draws.] Fe ildiaf.
Alun, thanks for giving way. I accept your call that we need structural change; I think you're right there. But are you therefore as frustrated as I am, and as we are, that your own Government has put in a 'delete all' amendment and will not support this? Do you support your Government's position?
Alun, diolch am ildio. Rwy'n derbyn eich galwad fod angen newid strwythurol; rwy'n credu eich bod chi'n iawn yno. Ond a ydych chi felly yr un mor rhwystredig â minnau, a ninnau, fod eich Llywodraeth eich hun wedi rhoi gwelliant 'dileu popeth' ac na fydd yn cefnogi hyn? A ydych chi'n cefnogi safbwynt eich Llywodraeth?
Mabon, you should've been listening to my opening remarks: I said that in the first 10 seconds. I know I take time to get warmed up, but I was hoping you might have been there before me.
The reality is that the only parts of Wales that have seen real investment—and Gareth doesn't understand this, of course; if he'd done his research, he would—are those parts of Wales where the responsibility for taking those decisions is devolved. That is the reality. There's no conspiracy, Gareth. Your Government told direct lies about this and you shouldn't defend it; you shouldn't do that. You should do your research instead. The only parts of Wales that see the investment are parts of Wales where we have devolution of responsibility. [Interruption.] I will make one more point before I allow an intervention. And that means that we need to have responsibility here. We need the full devolution of rail infrastructure to this place to enable our Government to deliver on the promises that this Government want to deliver upon.
Mabon, dylech fod wedi gwrando ar fy sylwadau agoriadol: dywedais hynny yn y 10 eiliad cyntaf. Rwy'n gwybod fy mod yn cymryd amser i gynhesu, ond roeddwn i'n gobeithio y gallech fod wedi bod yno o fy mlaen.
Y gwir amdani yw mai'r unig rannau o Gymru sydd wedi gweld buddsoddiad go iawn—ac nid yw Gareth yn deall hyn, wrth gwrs; pe bai wedi gwneud ei ymchwil, fe fyddai—yw'r rhannau o Gymru lle mae'r cyfrifoldeb dros wneud y penderfyniadau hynny wedi'i ddatganoli. Dyna'r realiti. Nid oes cynllwyn, Gareth. Dywedodd eich Llywodraeth gelwyddau noeth am hyn ac ni ddylech ei hamddiffyn; ni ddylech wneud hynny. Dylech wneud eich ymchwil yn lle hynny. Yr unig rannau o Gymru sy'n gweld y buddsoddiad yw'r rhannau o Gymru lle mae cyfrifoldeb wedi'i ddatganoli. [Torri ar draws.] Fe wnaf un pwynt arall cyn imi ganiatáu ymyriad. Ac mae hynny'n golygu bod angen inni gael cyfrifoldeb yma. Mae angen datganoli'r seilwaith rheilffyrdd yn llawn i'r lle hwn er mwyn galluogi ein Llywodraeth i gyflawni'r addewidion y mae'r Llywodraeth hon am eu gwireddu.
You have a swathe of MPs in Westminster now, we had Wales questions in Parliament this afternoon, there's a Wales Office. Doesn't it beg the question to you what these Welsh Labour MPs are doing that they can't seem to influence the Government to invest in our rail services—in north Wales in my case, but then, indeed, the Ebbw Fach valley, for instance? What's your MP up to down there?
Mae gennych chi lu o ASau yn San Steffan nawr, cawsom gwestiynau Cymru yn Senedd y DU y prynhawn yma, mae yna Swyddfa Cymru. Onid yw'n gwneud i chi gwestiynu beth y mae'r ASau Llafur Cymreig hyn yn ei wneud os nad yw'n ymddangos eu bod yn gallu dylanwadu ar y Llywodraeth i fuddsoddi yn ein gwasanaethau rheilffyrdd—yng ngogledd Cymru yn fy achos i, ac yng nghwm Ebwy Fach, er enghraifft? Beth y mae eich AS yn ei wneud i lawr yno?
I didn't stand for election to this place to spend my time commenting about the performance of Westminster MPs. That's not why I'm here. I'm here to argue the case for the position of this Parliament and this Government, and I think that should be very clear. I'll finish on this—
Ni wneuthum sefyll etholiad i'r lle hwn i dreulio fy amser yn gwneud sylwadau am berfformiad ASau San Steffan. Nid dyna pam rwyf i yma. Rwyf yma i ddadlau'r achos dros safbwynt y Senedd hon a'r Llywodraeth hon, ac rwy'n credu y dylai hynny fod yn glir iawn. Rwyf am orffen gyda hyn—
Yes, please.
Ie, os gwelwch yn dda.
—before testing the Deputy Presiding Officer more on this point.
If we are serious—and this is the really serious point here—about modal change, about changing the way that our transport networks work, about connectivity across Wales, about ensuring that we're able to develop rail next to bus with active travel and all the things we've heard from Welsh Ministers over the 18 years that I've sat here, the only way that will be achieved is if those Welsh Ministers have the levers to deliver that change. We can create as many cross-border committees and boards as we like, but the reality is the Welsh Government is not an equal; the Welsh Government is currently a supplicant at that feast.
—cyn profi mwy ar amynedd y Dirprwy Lywydd.
Os ydym o ddifrif—a dyma'r pwynt difrifol yma—am newid dulliau teithio, am newid y ffordd y mae ein rhwydweithiau trafnidiaeth yn gweithio, am gysylltedd ledled Cymru, am sicrhau ein bod yn gallu datblygu trenau wrth ymyl bysiau gyda theithio llesol a'r holl bethau a glywsom gan Weinidogion Cymru dros y 18 mlynedd y bûm yn Aelod yma, yr unig ffordd y caiff hynny ei gyflawni yw os oes gan y Gweinidogion hynny ddulliau o gyflawni'r newid hwnnw. Gallwn greu cymaint o bwyllgorau a byrddau trawsffiniol ag y dymunwn, ond y gwir amdani yw nad yw Llywodraeth Cymru yn cael ei thrin yn gyfartal; ar hyn o bryd mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn ymbil am ei chyfran yn y wledd.
Okay. Thank you, Alun.
O'r gorau. Diolch, Alun.
The Welsh Government depends on the largesse of Ministers who, historically, we have seen, have always placed Wales's needs last. That is why we need devolution; it's not constitutional posturing, it's about delivering for the people who elected me and elected all of us here to deliver on the promises that we've made to them. The Welsh Government should be campaigning for that, the Welsh Government should be helping deliver it—
Mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn dibynnu ar haelioni Gweinidogion sydd, yn hanesyddol, fel y gwelsom, wedi gosod anghenion Cymru yn olaf. Dyna pam y mae angen datganoli; nid ymhonni cyfansoddiadol mohono, mae'n ymwneud â chyflawni ar ran y bobl a wnaeth fy ethol i ac a etholodd bob un ohonom yma i gyflawni'r addewidion a wnaethom iddynt. Dylai Llywodraeth Cymru fod yn ymgyrchu dros hynny, dylai Llywodraeth Cymru fod yn helpu i'w gyflawni—
Thank you, Alun.
Diolch, Alun.
—and the UK Government should be recognising its responsibilities.
—a dylai Llywodraeth y DU gydnabod ei chyfrifoldebau.
Two competing narratives explain Wales's relative economic underdevelopment in the modern era. The first claims our fate is sealed by geography—remote villages, isolated valleys and rugged mountains condemn us to permanent disadvantage. Our economic woes are supposedly written into the very landscape itself. The second narrative, the one I hold to, recognises there's nothing inevitable about our underdevelopment. It stems not from geography, but from systematic political neglect, what economist Andre Gunder Frank called 'the development of underdevelopment'. Successful economic development isn't about nature or geography, it's about strategic institutional choices and investments that enable some places to flourish while others are condemned to failure.
I once was at an economic conference where a fairly prominent Welsh economist claimed Wales underperformed because of its topography. Too many mountains and too many villages. Some brave voice from the back piped up and said, 'What about Switzerland?' Switzerland's mountains, let's face it, make ours look like hills. Their villages are scattered across impossibly steep terrain. Yet Switzerland thrives economically, with communities that prosper and achievements that inspire global admiration.
Switzerland's secret? Well, firstly, it's an independent nation that is able to prioritise its own infrastructure needs without competing for attention from a distant capital. They invested in trains; and not just any trains, but a network built with an almost religious devotion to connectivity. Their clock-face timetable means trains arrive and depart at the same minute every hour everywhere. They're trains that don't merely transport people, they transform isolated hamlets into neighbourhoods of a single prosperous nation.
Now, compare that to Wales: our railways are largely industrial leftovers, built not to connect people but to extract resources, moving Welsh wealth out, not binding people and communities together. Add to that decades of Westminster neglect. As we've heard, they've left us without, almost—well, uniquely, I think, of any European nation—a proper north-south rail connection. The Valleys have had some investment, driven, yes, by the Welsh Government, but they still lack, don't they, east-west links? The western Valleys in rural communities—they might as well be islands because of their complete lack of rail connectivity.
And yet, when we look around the world, the evidence is clear, isn't it? Good rail creates prosperity. Rail investment sparks job creation, boosts productivity, attracts investments by expanding labour markets and cutting transportation costs. Better rail doesn't just follow economic prosperity, it actively creates it. So, think about what we've lost in Wales, cumulatively, decade after decade, generation after generation: businesses never started because founders couldn't reach customers; students unable to attend college. Our disconnection is our disadvantage, and neither are inevitable; they're the result of political choices made in London.
Now, we're not looking for charity, but parity; not subsidy, but equality. It's a modest demand that we've heard echoed across the Chamber, isn't it, that Welsh communities simply receive the same consideration, the same investment and opportunity to thrive as communities elsewhere in the UK. And when we hear the Chancellor announced continued support for that bullet train to Birmingham, the Silicon Valley express from Oxford to Cambridge, new runways at London airports and reservoirs in the south-east, whilst simultaneously postponing investment everywhere else, I'm reminded of that Korean economist Ha-Joon Chang's book, Kicking Away the Ladder, where he argues that wealthy regions and nations build their prosperity through state-led infrastructure investment before then preaching austerity to others, effectively kicking away the ladder that they climbed.
The economic centres of south-east England developed, and continue to develop, through massive public investment, while denying Wales the same path. This economic gap will persist as long as this chronic unfairness continues. My preferred answer, Deputy Presiding Officer, is to break the cycle by making the Swiss choice, solving our own problems as an independent nation. But to unionists, our argument is simple: you say you believe in the union, prove it, because for Wales, fairness or freedom will become the generational choice we must surely face sooner or later.
Ceir dau naratif sy'n cystadlu i egluro tanddatblygiad economaidd cymharol Cymru yn yr oes fodern. Mae'r cyntaf yn honni bod ein tynged wedi'i phennu gan ddaearyddiaeth—pentrefi anghysbell, dyffrynnoedd ynysig a mynyddoedd garw yn ein condemnio i anfantais barhaol. Dywedir bod ein hanfanteision economaidd wedi'u hysgrifennu ar y dirwedd ei hun. Mae'r ail naratif, yr un rwy'n ei arddel, yn cydnabod nad oes unrhyw beth yn anochel am ein tanddatblygiad. Nid yw'n deillio o ddaearyddiaeth, ond o esgeulustod gwleidyddol systematig, yr hyn a alwodd yr economegydd Andre Gunder Frank yn 'ddatblygiad tanddatblygiad'. Nid yw datblygiad economaidd llwyddiannus yn ymwneud â natur na daearyddiaeth, mae'n ymwneud â dewisiadau sefydliadol strategol a buddsoddiadau sy'n galluogi rhai lleoedd i ffynnu tra bod eraill wedi eu condemnio i fethu.
Roeddwn mewn cynhadledd economaidd unwaith lle'r oedd economegydd Cymreig eithaf blaenllaw'n honni bod Cymru'n tanberfformio oherwydd ei thopograffeg. Gormod o fynyddoedd a gormod o bentrefi. Fe ddaeth llais dewr o'r cefn a ofynnodd, 'Beth am y Swistir?' Gadewch inni wynebu'r peth, mae mynyddoedd y Swistir yn gwneud i'n rhai ni edrych fel bryniau. Mae eu pentrefi wedi'u gwasgaru ar draws tir amhosibl o serth. Ac eto mae'r Swistir yn ffynnu'n economaidd, gyda chymunedau llewyrchus a chyflawniadau sy'n ennyn edmygedd y byd.
Cyfrinach y Swistir? Wel, yn gyntaf, mae'n genedl annibynnol sy'n gallu blaenoriaethu ei hanghenion seilwaith ei hun heb gystadlu am sylw o brifddinas bell. Fe wnaethant fuddsoddi mewn trenau; ac nid unrhyw drenau, ond rhwydwaith a adeiladwyd gydag ymroddiad bron yn grefyddol i gysylltedd. Mae eu hamserlen wyneb y cloc yn golygu bod trenau'n cyrraedd ac yn gadael ar yr un funud bob awr ym mhobman. Maent yn drenau sydd nid yn unig yn cludo pobl, maent yn trawsnewid pentrefi bach ynysig yn gymdogaethau mewn un genedl lewyrchus.
Nawr, cymharwch hynny â Chymru: gweddillion diwydiannol yw ein rheilffyrdd at ei gilydd, wedi'u hadeiladu nid i gysylltu pobl ond i echdynnu adnoddau, symud cyfoeth Cymru allan, nid rhwymo pobl a chymunedau ynghyd. Ychwanegwch at hynny y degawdau o esgeulustod gan San Steffan. Fel y clywsom, maent wedi ein gadael, bron—wel, yn unigryw, rwy'n credu, ymhlith cenhedloedd Ewrop—heb gysylltiad rheilffordd priodol rhwng y gogledd a'r de. Mae'r Cymoedd wedi cael rhywfaint o fuddsoddiad, wedi ei yrru, ie, gan Lywodraeth Cymru, ond maent yn dal yn brin o gysylltiadau o'r dwyrain i'r gorllewin onid ydynt? Y Cymoedd gorllewinol mewn cymunedau gwledig—waeth iddynt fod yn ynysoedd o ran y diffyg cysylltedd rheilffordd.
Ac eto, pan edrychwn o gwmpas y byd, mae'r dystiolaeth yn glir, onid yw? Mae rheilffyrdd da yn creu ffyniant. Mae buddsoddi mewn rheilffyrdd yn sbarduno creu swyddi, yn hybu cynhyrchiant, yn denu buddsoddiadau trwy ehangu marchnadoedd llafur a thorri costau cludiant. Nid dod yn sgil ffyniant economaidd yn unig y mae rheilffyrdd gwell, mae'n eu creu. Felly, meddyliwch am yr hyn a gollwyd gennym yng Nghymru, yn gronnol, ddegawd ar ôl degawd, genhedlaeth ar ôl cenhedlaeth: ni allodd busnesau ddechrau am na allai sefydlwyr busnesau gyrraedd cwsmeriaid; methodd myfyrwyr fynychu colegau. Ein datgysylltiad yw ein hanfantais, ac nid yw'r naill na'r llall yn anochel; maent yn ganlyniad i ddewisiadau gwleidyddol a wnaed yn Llundain.
Nawr, nid ydym yn chwilio am gardod, dim ond parch cydradd; nid cymhorthdal, dim ond cydraddoldeb. Mae'n alw cymedrol a glywsom yn cael ei adleisio ar draws y Siambr, onid yw, y dylai cymunedau Cymru gael yr un ystyriaeth, yr un buddsoddiad a chyfle i ffynnu â chymunedau mewn rhannau eraill o'r DU. A phan glywn y Canghellor yn cyhoeddi cefnogaeth barhaus i'r trên bwled i Birmingham, y trên cyflym Dyffryn Silicon o Rydychen i Gaergrawnt, rhedfeydd newydd ym meysydd awyr Llundain a chronfeydd dŵr yn ne-ddwyrain Lloegr, gan ohirio buddsoddiad ym mhobman arall ar yr un pryd, caf fy atgoffa o lyfr yr economegydd Koreaidd Ha-Joon Chang, Kicking Away the Ladder, lle mae'n dadlau bod rhanbarthau a chenhedloedd cyfoethog yn adeiladu eu ffyniant trwy fuddsoddiad seilwaith dan arweiniad y wladwriaeth cyn pregethu cyni i eraill, gan gicio'r ysgol a ddringwyd ganddynt ymaith.
Datblygodd canolfannau economaidd de-ddwyrain Lloegr, ac maent yn parhau i ddatblygu, trwy fuddsoddiad cyhoeddus enfawr, gan amddifadu Cymru o'r un llwybr. Bydd y bwlch economaidd yn parhau cyhyd â bod yr annhegwch cronig hwn yn parhau. Yr ateb sydd orau gennyf i, Ddirprwy Lywydd, yw torri'r cylch trwy wneud dewis y Swistir, datrys ein problemau ein hunain fel cenedl annibynnol. Ond i unoliaethwyr, mae ein dadl yn syml: rydych chi'n dweud eich bod chi'n credu yn yr undeb, profwch hynny, oherwydd i Gymru, bydd tegwch neu ryddid yn dod yn ddewis i genhedlaeth y bydd rhaid i ni ei wynebu yn hwyr neu'n hwyrach.
Dirprwy Lywydd, I have three themes that I wanted to comment on. The main one I want to comment on is actually about how we might use that investment, particularly with the north-west corridor opening of railway lines. But I have to comment on some of the issues that have been raised earlier. Certainly, my constituency, as Alun has identified, is one of those areas that has massively benefited from the investment in those areas that we actually control: the metro in terms of Pontypridd, the trains and the Valleys lines, where there has been massive transformation as a result of devolution, and the things that we've done are absolutely phenomenal. The points that are raised, of course, on those areas that we don't control, are the areas where we actually struggle for that.
But I do want to comment on the actual funding issue, because the underfunding is recognised, it is historic: there is unity about that particular issue, and I do not accept the UK Government's response to HS2 funding. I could accept an argument that says that we can not fund all the legacy of all the disastrous economic consequences of the last 14 years of Tory Government, but I believe that we have a constitutional entitlement to the Barnett funding consequential, and the response from the UK Government has been unacceptable, it's been inaccurate, it's been flawed, and I don't believe it is credible. The Tories deliberately robbed Wales of funding that we were entitled to within a system of decades of massive underfunding, and it's only because of devolution that we're now able to start reversing some of the damage that was done over decades, and particularly since privatisation, and I think we are entitled to better than that. And what is not acceptable is that the consequential funding we should be entitled to is subject to a whim of Government. It has got to be something that has a clear constitutional and structural foundation, and that is what needs to change. Now, that having been said, I do of course welcome the fact that there are conversations and discussions going that may well result in additional funding coming in. I very much welcome it, but it is not the foundation on which that should be happening.
Now, one of the areas where we could invest, were we to receive that funding, is the investment in the north-west corridor. Taff Ely, Cardiff West, my constituency and the constituency of Mark Drakeford, is likely to have a development of in the region of 10,000 new homes. A quarter of the households in both our constituencies do not have access to a car. There is no realistic non-car, public transport other than tram train, which I think is the option. The business case for that has been made, it satisfies all the decarbonisation and levelling-up criteria. And we need a decision now on the reopening of the north-west corridor railway line, which has been preserved exactly for that particular purpose. It was set out in the documents and research that my myself and the Member for Cardiff West identified. A new tram-train route via the City line and potentially utilising the route of the safeguarded corridor between Cardiff Central, junction 33 and Creigiau, an extension of the tram-train route from Creigiau to Pontyclun via Cross Inn, and an extension of the tram-train route from Creigiau to Beddau via Cross Inn, Miskin, Llantrisant and Talbot Green—that is the only solution to the development of the enormous number of homes, which we desperately need, but which cannot be solved by any road solution. And one of the reasons this issue over the structural funding of the rail infrastructure in Wales is so important is because there are things like this that should have happened, that need to happen, where the work is being done now to enable it to happen, and it will only happen when we actually get a commitment to that investment—investment that will secure public transport for the next 100 years in an area of enormous development. Diolch.
Ddirprwy Lywydd, mae gennyf dair thema yr oeddwn am wneud sylwadau arnynt. Y brif thema yr hoffwn wneud sylwadau arni yw sut y gallem ddefnyddio'r buddsoddiad hwnnw, yn fwyaf arbennig gydag agor llinellau rheilffordd coridor y gogledd-orllewin. Ond mae'n rhaid imi wneud sylwadau ar rai o'r materion a godwyd yn gynharach. Yn sicr, mae fy etholaeth i, fel y nododd Alun, yn un o'r ardaloedd sydd wedi elwa'n fawr o'r buddsoddiad yn y pethau sydd o dan ein rheolaeth: y metro o ran Pontypridd, y trenau a llinellau'r Cymoedd, lle bu trawsnewidiad enfawr o ganlyniad i ddatganoli, ac mae'r pethau a wnaethom yn gwbl anhygoel. Y pwyntiau sy'n cael eu codi am y pethau nad ydym yn eu rheoli, yw'r pethau lle rydym yn cael trafferth.
Ond rwyf am wneud sylw ar fater ariannu, oherwydd mae'r tanariannu wedi cael ei gydnabod, mae'n hanesyddol: mae undod ynghylch y mater hwnnw, ac nid wyf yn derbyn ymateb Llywodraeth y DU i gyllid HS2. Gallwn dderbyn dadl sy'n dweud na allwn ariannu holl waddol canlyniadau economaidd trychinebus yr 14 mlynedd diwethaf o Lywodraeth Dorïaidd, ond credaf fod gennym hawl gyfansoddiadol i gyllid canlyniadol Barnett, ac mae'r ymateb gan Lywodraeth y DU wedi bod yn annerbyniol, mae wedi bod yn anghywir, mae wedi bod yn wallus, ac nid wyf yn credu ei fod yn dal dŵr. Fe wnaeth y Torïaid fynd ati'n fwriadol i ddwyn cyllid oddi ar Gymru, cyllid yr oedd gennym hawl iddo o fewn system o ddegawdau o danariannu enfawr, a dim ond oherwydd datganoli y gallwn bellach ddechrau gwrthdroi peth o'r niwed a wnaed dros ddegawdau, ac yn enwedig ers preifateiddio, ac rwy'n credu bod gennym hawl i gael gwell na hynny. A'r hyn nad yw'n dderbyniol yw bod y cyllid canlyniadol y dylem fod â hawl iddo yn ddarostyngedig i fympwy Llywodraeth. Mae'n rhaid iddo fod yn rhywbeth sydd â sylfaen gyfansoddiadol a strwythurol glir, a dyna sydd angen ei newid. Nawr, wedi dweud hynny, rwy'n croesawu'r ffaith bod sgyrsiau a thrafodaethau ar y gweill a allai'n hawdd arwain at gyllid ychwanegol yn dod i mewn. Rwy'n ei groesawu'n fawr, ond nid dyna'r sylfaen y dylai fod yn digwydd arni.
Nawr, un o'r mannau lle gallem fuddsoddi, pe baem yn cael y cyllid hwnnw, yw'r buddsoddiad yng nghoridor y gogledd-orllewin. Mae'n debygol y bydd Taf Elái, Gorllewin Caerdydd, fy etholaeth i ac etholaeth Mark Drakeford, yn cael datblygiad o tua 10,000 o gartrefi newydd. Nid oes gan chwarter yr aelwydydd yn ein dwy etholaeth fynediad at gar. Ni cheir unrhyw drafnidiaeth gyhoeddus realistig nad yw'n gar heblaw am drên tram, ac rwy'n credu mai dyna'r opsiwn. Mae'r achos busnes dros hwnnw wedi'i wneud, mae'n bodloni'r holl feini prawf datgarboneiddio a chodi'r gwastad. Ac mae angen penderfyniad arnom nawr ar ailagor rheilffordd coridor y gogledd-orllewin, sydd wedi'i chadw at y diben penodol hwnnw. Fe'i nodwyd yn y dogfennau a'r ymchwil a nodwyd gennyf i a'r Aelod dros Orllewin Caerdydd. Llwybr trên tram newydd trwy lein y Ddinas ac o bosibl, defnyddio llwybr y coridor a ddiogelwyd rhwng Canol Caerdydd, cyffordd 33 a Creigiau, estyniad o'r llwybr trên tram o Creigiau i Pont-y-clun trwy Cross Inn, ac estyniad i'r llwybr trên tram o Creigiau i Beddau trwy Cross Inn, Meisgyn, Llantrisant a Thonysguboriau—dyna'r unig ateb i ddatblygu'r nifer enfawr o gartrefi, sydd eu hangen arnom, ond na ellir ei ddatrys gan unrhyw ateb ffordd. Ac un o'r rhesymau pam y mae mater cyllid strwythurol i'r seilwaith rheilffyrdd yng Nghymru mor bwysig yw oherwydd bod yna bethau fel hyn a ddylai fod wedi digwydd, y mae angen iddynt ddigwydd, lle mae'r gwaith yn cael ei wneud nawr i'w alluogi i ddigwydd, ac ni fydd ond yn digwydd pan gawn ymrwymiad i'r buddsoddiad hwnnw—buddsoddiad a fydd yn sicrhau trafnidiaeth gyhoeddus am y 100 mlynedd nesaf mewn ardal lle ceir datblygu enfawr. Diolch.
Galwaf ar Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet dros Drafnidiaeth a Gogledd Cymru, Ken Skates.
I call on the Cabinet Secretary for Transport and North Wales, Ken Skates.

Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd. It's been a very interesting debate, and I do welcome many comments that have been made. I'll deal with specific ones in a moment, but I must start by saying that this is a Government that delivers. Welsh Labour delivers. We took ownership of the core Valleys lines and created a transformational metro system. We turned what was a liability into an asset, and we're improving the life chances of people across the region.
And now that we have a UK Labour Government, we will transform services across north Wales as well, increasing services by 50 per cent—50 per cent—by next year. That's as a result of an agreement between us and the UK Government that took place last year. Investment in the north Wales main line. Unlike the false promise that was offered by Rishi Sunak over electrification, the money is there, the promise is real, we will deliver. And by next year, we'll be seeing 50 per cent more services across north Wales.
And we've agreed a pipeline of rail enhancements with the Department for Transport and the Wales Office, which will transform our rail network and address injustice over funding or a lack of funding in our rail network over many years. We've long campaigned for fair rail investment in Wales, and for the first time, Dirprwy Lywydd, the UK Department for Transport Ministers and the Wales Office have recognised that Wales has suffered from historic underfunding for rail infrastructure. They have agreed with us that it must and will be addressed. Lord Hendy confirmed just last week at the Welsh Affairs Committee that the Department for Transport have submitted our rail priorities for inclusion in the spending review. He referenced the Burns review as guiding his union connectivity review and being the foundation—the foundation—for the Department for Transport's submission.
Our agreed pipeline is based on the north Wales and south-east Wales transport commissions and the union connectivity review. New stations and capacity improvements are proposed to support new rail services across communities in Wales, and we're not starting from scratch. What we are doing is building on what are some of the most developed rail plans anywhere in the UK, but which, sadly, were ignored by past Tory Governments. Today they are embraced by UK Labour Ministers.
We are also working in partnership with the UK Government, and indeed our allies, metro mayors in England, to agree a review of Network Rail investment green book processes, to ensure that Wales receives a fair share of all future rail infrastructure investment, which would finally deliver that structural change that Alun Davies spoke of.
I should say that we have already secured £39 million into our annual block grant for the ongoing maintenance and renewal of the rail infrastructure that we own—the core Valleys lines. That's what partnership in power can do. And we're seeking comparability with relevant UK Government programmes in the Barnett formula, recognising that we are now a rail infrastructure owner. I think Hefin David rightly highlighted how we've taken one of the oldest fleets of trains in Britain—one of the oldest, inherited in 2018 and comprising of just 270 trains—and we are going to be delivering one of Britain's newest fleets of trains, a vast increase of trains as well, to 484. New trains are in service across Wales; in north Wales, south Wales, east Wales and west Wales, we are introducing a huge number of new trains across the country.
Now, Carolyn Thomas talked about the history of rail in this, its two-hundredth anniversary. I was recently reading about the history of rail services in her region. It was very interesting that the borderlands line, otherwise known as the Wrexham-Bidston line, was actually known as 'the north Wales and Liverpool line' until the early twentieth century. And as a result of our agreed pipeline, we will create metro services, direct and uninterrupted, between Wrexham and Liverpool. That's the result of partnership in power. And the work will commence on infrastructure requirements around Padeswood.
Our rail priorities improve connectivity, not only within Wales but across our borders in the wider UK. It's critical to ordinary people, and indeed businesses, that we have good links with the big cities and major airports of the UK. And our priorities will improve connectivity across borders and enhance our competitiveness. In north Wales, rail services and public transport need to be configured to support cross-border functional economies, as advocated by Growth Track 360. Similarly in mid Wales, the Western Gateway partnership advocates a similar cross-border approach for south Wales and the south-west of England.
And, Dirprwy Lywydd, rail reform is coming. The system that has been broken for far too long is coming. This will deliver much-needed change to the railway industry and, strengthened by our partnership with the UK, will set the platform for further investment and improvement in Wales. [Interruption.] Yes, of course.
Diolch, Ddirprwy Lywydd. Mae wedi bod yn ddadl ddiddorol iawn, ac rwy'n croesawu llawer o'r sylwadau a wnaed. Byddaf yn ymdrin â rhai penodol mewn eiliad, ond mae'n rhaid imi ddechrau drwy ddweud mai Llywodraeth sy'n cyflawni yw hon. Mae Llafur Cymru yn cyflawni. Fe wnaethom gymryd perchnogaeth ar linellau craidd y Cymoedd a chreu system metro drawsnewidiol. Fe wnaethom droi'r hyn a oedd yn rhwymedigaeth yn ased, ac rydym yn gwella cyfleoedd bywyd pobl ar draws y rhanbarth.
A chan fod gennym Lywodraeth Lafur yn y DU erbyn hyn, byddwn yn trawsnewid gwasanaethau ar draws gogledd Cymru hefyd, gan gynyddu gwasanaethau 50 y cant—50 y cant—erbyn y flwyddyn nesaf. Mae hynny o ganlyniad i gytundeb rhyngom ni a Llywodraeth y DU a ddigwyddodd y llynedd. Buddsoddiad ym mhrif reilffordd gogledd Cymru. Yn wahanol i'r addewid ffug i drydaneiddio gan Rishi Sunak, mae'r arian yno, mae'r addewid yn real, byddwn yn cyflawni. Ac erbyn y flwyddyn nesaf, byddwn yn gweld 50 y cant yn fwy o wasanaethau ar draws gogledd Cymru.
Ac rydym wedi cytuno ar lif o welliannau rheilffyrdd gyda'r Adran Drafnidiaeth a Swyddfa Cymru a fydd yn trawsnewid ein rhwydwaith rheilffyrdd ac yn mynd i'r afael ag anghyfiawnder cyllid neu ddiffyg cyllid yn ein rhwydwaith rheilffyrdd dros nifer o flynyddoedd. Rydym wedi ymgyrchu ers tro am fuddsoddiad teg yn y rheilffyrdd yng Nghymru, ac am y tro cyntaf, Ddirprwy Lywydd, mae Gweinidogion Adran Drafnidiaeth y DU a Swyddfa Cymru wedi cydnabod bod Cymru wedi dioddef o danariannu hanesyddol ar y seilwaith rheilffyrdd. Maent wedi cytuno â ni fod yn rhaid iddo gael sylw, ac y bydd yn cael sylw. Cadarnhaodd yr Arglwydd Hendy yr wythnos diwethaf yn y Pwyllgor Materion Cymreig fod yr Adran Drafnidiaeth wedi cyflwyno ein blaenoriaethau rheilffyrdd i'w cynnwys yn yr adolygiad o wariant. Cyfeiriodd at adolygiad Burns fel un a oedd yn llywio ei adolygiad o gysylltedd yr undeb a'r sylfaen—y sylfaen—i'w gyflwyno i'r Adran Drafnidiaeth.
Mae'r llif o welliannau y cytunwyd arnynt yn seiliedig ar gomisiynau trafnidiaeth gogledd Cymru a de-ddwyrain Cymru a'r adolygiad o gysylltedd yr undeb. Ceir gorsafoedd newydd a gwelliannau capasiti arfaethedig i gefnogi gwasanaethau rheilffyrdd newydd ar draws cymunedau yng Nghymru, ac nid ydym yn dechrau o'r dechrau. Yr hyn a wnawn yw adeiladu ar rai o'r cynlluniau rheilffyrdd mwyaf datblygedig yn unrhyw le yn y DU, ond a gafodd eu hanwybyddu, yn anffodus, gan Lywodraethau Torïaidd y gorffennol. Heddiw cânt eu croesawu gan Weinidogion Llafur y DU.
Rydym hefyd yn gweithio mewn partneriaeth â Llywodraeth y DU, a'n cynghreiriaid yn wir, sef y meiri metro yn Lloegr, i gytuno ar adolygiad o brosesau llyfr gwyrdd buddsoddiadau Network Rail, i sicrhau bod Cymru'n cael cyfran deg o'r holl fuddsoddiad seilwaith rheilffyrdd yn y dyfodol, a fyddai, o'r diwedd, yn sicrhau'r newid strwythurol y soniodd Alun Davies amdano.
Dylwn ddweud ein bod eisoes wedi sicrhau £39 miliwn i'n grant bloc blynyddol ar gyfer gwaith cynnal a chadw ac adnewyddu parhaus ar y seilwaith rheilffyrdd yr ydym yn berchen arno—llinellau craidd y Cymoedd. Dyna'r hyn y gall partneriaeth mewn grym ei wneud. Ac rydym yn chwilio am gymharedd â rhaglenni perthnasol Llywodraeth y DU yn fformiwla Barnett, gan gydnabod ein bod bellach yn berchennog ar seilwaith rheilffyrdd. Rwy'n credu bod Hefin David yn gywir i dynnu sylw at sut yr aethom ag un o'r fflydoedd hynaf o drenau ym Mhrydain—un o'r hynaf, a etifeddwyd yn 2018, gyda 270 o drenau yn unig—a'n bod yn mynd i fod yn darparu un o'r fflydoedd mwyaf newydd o drenau ym Mhrydain, cynnydd enfawr o drenau hefyd, i 484. Mae trenau newydd mewn gwasanaeth ar draws Cymru; yng ngogledd Cymru, de Cymru, dwyrain Cymru a gorllewin Cymru, rydym yn cyflwyno nifer enfawr o drenau newydd ar draws y wlad.
Nawr, soniodd Carolyn Thomas am hanes rheilffyrdd yn hyn, eu daucanmlwyddiant. Yn ddiweddar roeddwn yn darllen am hanes gwasanaethau rheilffordd yn ei rhanbarth hi. Roedd yn ddiddorol iawn fod lein y gororau, a elwir hefyd yn lein Wrecsam-Bidston, yn arfer cael ei hadnabod fel 'llinell gogledd Cymru a Lerpwl' tan ddechrau'r ugeinfed ganrif. Ac o ganlyniad i'r llif o welliannau a gytunwyd, byddwn yn creu gwasanaethau metro uniongyrchol a di-dor rhwng Wrecsam a Lerpwl. Dyna ganlyniad partneriaeth mewn grym. A bydd y gwaith yn dechrau ar ofynion seilwaith o amgylch Padeswood.
Mae ein blaenoriaethau rheilffyrdd yn gwella cysylltedd, nid yn unig yng Nghymru ond ar draws ein ffiniau yn y DU yn ehangach. Mae'n hanfodol i bobl gyffredin, ac yn wir i fusnesau, fod gennym gysylltiadau da â dinasoedd mawr a meysydd awyr mawr y DU. A bydd ein blaenoriaethau'n gwella cysylltedd ar draws ffiniau ac yn gwella ein cystadleurwydd. Yng ngogledd Cymru, mae angen cyflunio gwasanaethau rheilffyrdd a thrafnidiaeth gyhoeddus i gefnogi economïau trawsffiniol gweithredol, fel y mae Growth Track 360 yn ei hyrwyddo. Yn yr un modd yng nghanolbarth Cymru, mae partneriaeth Porth y Gorllewin yn argymell dull trawsffiniol tebyg ar gyfer de Cymru a de-orllewin Lloegr.
Ddirprwy Lywydd, mae diwygio'r rheilffyrdd ar y ffordd. Mae'r system sydd wedi bod yn doredig ers gormod o amser yn newid. Bydd yn sicrhau newid mawr ei angen i'r diwydiant rheilffyrdd, ac wedi'i gryfhau gan ein partneriaeth â'r DU, bydd yn gosod y llwyfan ar gyfer buddsoddi a gwelliannau pellach yng Nghymru. [Torri ar draws.] Wrth gwrs.
Thank you very much for giving way. The Cabinet Secretary talks a very, very good game, and forgive me if I've intervened too early and that you're coming around to this, but you haven't mentioned any numbers whatsoever—the kind of scale of investment that the Government is planning to put in, to make up for the lost billions, plus make up for the future billions that we are projected to lose under current Barnett spending projections. Plus, there has been no recognition that HS2 and the consequentials we are owed is completely separate from that, and that more, hundreds of millions in his eyes—billions in my eyes, and that of his colleagues—is also owed to Wales on top of that. Maybe he'll address those two.
Diolch am ildio. Mae Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet yn siarad yn dda iawn, a maddeuwch i mi os wyf i wedi ymyrryd yn rhy fuan a'ch bod chi'n dod at hyn, ond nid ydych wedi sôn am unrhyw ffigurau o gwbl—y math o fuddsoddiad y mae'r Llywodraeth yn bwriadu ei roi i mewn, i wneud iawn am y biliynau a gollwyd, ynghyd â gwneud iawn am y biliynau yn y dyfodol y rhagwelir y byddwn yn eu colli o dan amcanestyniadau gwariant Barnett cyfredol. Hefyd, ni fu unrhyw gydnabyddiaeth fod HS2 a'r symiau canlyniadol sy'n ddyledus i ni yn hollol ar wahân i hynny, a bod mwy, cannoedd o filiynau yn ei lygaid ef—biliynau yn fy llygaid i, a'i gyd-Aelodau—hefyd yn ddyledus i Gymru ar ben hynny. Efallai y gwnaiff ymdrin â'r ddau beth hynny.
Can I just pose a question, then? Would you support investment in rail infrastructure in Wales that amounts not just to the HS2 consequentials, but also supports a pipeline—a pipeline of improvements that reflects past underinvestment and future needs? That is precisely what we are agreeing with the UK—
A gaf i ofyn cwestiwn felly? A fyddech chi'n cefnogi buddsoddiad mewn seilwaith rheilffyrdd yng Nghymru sy'n cynnwys nid yn unig symiau canlyniadol HS2, ond sydd hefyd yn cefnogi llif o welliannau i adlewyrchu'r tanfuddsoddi a fu yn y gorffennol ac anghenion y dyfodol? Dyna'n union beth rydym yn ei gytuno gyda'r DU—
If the Dirprwy Lywydd is happy for me to come back—
Os yw'r Dirprwy Lywydd yn hapus i mi ddod yn ôl—
Absolutely.
Yn sicr.
What I'm asking here is for those two things—. I said they were separate but interconnected. Yes, we need to see the pipeline—absolutely. We've been unable to develop a pipeline because the money hasn't been there. We want to know how much money is there. But on top of what that would bring, we need the HS2 funding too.
Yr hyn rwy'n ei ofyn yma yw i'r ddau beth—. Dywedais eu bod yn ddau beth ar wahân ond yn rhyng-gysylltiedig. Oes, mae angen inni weld y llif—yn hollol. Nid ydym wedi gallu datblygu llif o welliannau am nad yw'r arian wedi bod yno. Rydym eisiau gwybod faint o arian sydd yno. Ond ar ben yr hyn a fyddai'n dod yn sgil hynny, mae angen y cyllid HS2 arnom hefyd.
And this is crucial. This is crucial, because when you say, 'Let's see the figures for each of those component parts', the figures are out there. But rather than constrict delivery of those projects to the estimated cost of delivery, we wish to see those projects delivered regardless of how much they eventually cost, because the story of rail—the story of rail—not just here, but around the world, is that projects concerning rail infrastructure blow budgets. They go over budget. So, I would not want to constrain our ambitions by a simple envelope of cash, but, instead, agree the projects will be delivered. [Interruption.] And the scale—the scale—is enormous.
Ac mae hyn yn hollbwysig. Mae hyn yn hollbwysig, oherwydd pan ddywedwch, 'Gadewch inni weld y ffigurau ar gyfer pob un o'r cydrannau hynny', mae'r ffigurau ar gael. Ond yn hytrach na chyfyngu cyflawniad y prosiectau hynny i'r gost amcangyfrifedig o gyflenwi, rydym am weld y prosiectau hynny'n cael eu cyflawni ni waeth faint y maent yn ei gostio yn y pen draw, oherwydd stori'r rheilffyrdd, nid yn unig yma, ond o gwmpas y byd, yw bod prosiectau sy'n ymwneud â'r seilwaith rheilffyrdd yn mynd ymhell dros y cyllidebau ar eu cyfer. Maent yn mynd dros y gyllideb. Felly, ni fyddwn am gyfyngu ein huchelgeisiau i swm syml o arian, ond yn hytrach, cytuno y bydd y prosiectau'n cael eu cyflawni. [Torri ar draws.] Ac mae'r raddfa'n enfawr.
I would like to hear the contribution from the Cabinet Secretary.
Hoffwn glywed cyfraniad Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet.
The scale is enormous. That pipeline of projects relating to Burns alone is huge—huge—and we are investing as well. We are investing in new technologies, we are investing in staff, we are investing in people, we are investing in stations right across Wales. And through partnership in power, we are commencing work to transform what is currently a liability into an asset. [Interruption.] Yes, Delyth Jewell.
Mae'r raddfa'n enfawr. Mae'r llif o brosiectau sy'n gysylltiedig â Burns yn unig yn enfawr—enfawr—ac rydym yn buddsoddi hefyd. Rydym yn buddsoddi mewn technolegau newydd, rydym yn buddsoddi mewn staff, rydym yn buddsoddi mewn pobl, rydym yn buddsoddi mewn gorsafoedd ledled Cymru. A thrwy bartneriaeth mewn grym, rydym yn dechrau gweithio i drawsnewid yr hyn sydd ar hyn o bryd yn rhwymedigaeth yn ased. [Torri ar draws.] Ie, Delyth Jewell.
Thank you so much. Look, there is an awful lot here that we agree on and that we do welcome. Could I ask you, please, if you could answer specifically what it was in our motion that you disagreed with that meant that you had to put in a 'delete all', considering that there is so much that we agree on?
Diolch. Edrychwch, mae llawer iawn yma yr ydym yn cytuno yn ei gylch ac yr ydym yn ei groesawu. A gaf i ofyn i chi, os gwelwch yn dda, a allech chi ateb yn benodol beth oedd yn ein cynnig yr oeddech chi'n anghytuno ag ef gan olygu bod yn rhaid i chi gyflwyno gwelliant 'dileu popeth', o ystyried bod cymaint yr ydym yn cytuno yn ei gylch?
Well, I hope that you'll therefore support our amendment. I really do.
Wel, rwy'n gobeithio felly y gwnewch chi gefnogi ein gwelliant ni. Rwy'n gobeithio hynny'n fawr.
But the vote on ours comes first.
Ond y bleidlais ar ein cynnig ni sy'n dod gyntaf.
I do not see a problem with what we have tabled whatsoever, but we have a fundamental disagreement when it comes to whether we wish to be part of a union and whether you wish—[Interruption.] No. We have a fundamental difference, because we've heard this afternoon from Members—we've heard this afternoon from numerous Members—who have said, on your benches, that, if we had the HS2 consequentials, we would have been able to spend it on rail infrastructure in Wales. But the truth is that, in an independent Wales, as I said earlier this afternoon—[Interruption.] In an independent Wales, even a full consequential, based on your estimate of £4 billion—
Nid wyf yn gweld problem o gwbl gyda'r hyn a gyflwynwyd gennym, ond rydym yn anghytuno'n sylfaenol a ydym am fod yn rhan o undeb ac a ydych chi'n dymuno—[Torri ar draws.] Na. Mae gwahaniaeth sylfaenol rhyngom, oherwydd clywsom y prynhawn yma gan Aelodau—clywsom y prynhawn yma gan nifer o Aelodau—sydd wedi dweud, ar eich meinciau chi, pe baem wedi cael y symiau canlyniadol HS2, y byddem wedi gallu ei wario ar seilwaith rheilffyrdd yng Nghymru. Ond y gwir amdani yw, mewn Cymru annibynnol, fel y dywedais yn gynharach y prynhawn yma—[Torri ar draws.] Mewn Cymru annibynnol, byddai hyd yn oed swm canlyniadol llawn, yn seiliedig ar eich amcangyfrif chi o £4 biliwn—
Cabinet Secretary—
Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet—
—would be blown in no time at all, no time at all.
—wedi ei wario'n llwyr mewn dim o dro.
Cabinet Secretary. I would like to—. The Cabinet Secretary needs to finish his contribution, and he knows the timescale as well, but the benches need to let him do so as well, please, because I cannot hear his contribution because of the noise from my left.
Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet. Hoffwn—. Mae angen i Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet orffen ei gyfraniad, ac mae'n ymwybodol o'r amserlen, ond mae angen i'r meinciau adael iddo wneud hynny hefyd, os gwelwch yn dda, oherwydd ni allaf glywed ei gyfraniad oherwydd y sŵn ar fy ochr chwith.
And this is the inescapable truth, the objective truth, and, for yourselves, the very uneasy truth, that, in an independent Wales, which you wish to see, any HS2 consequential would be lost in a matter of months, based on your own figures—your own figures that you have embraced. And it would be lost without any improvements to show for it in rail infrastructure. Instead, we are working in partnership with the UK Government, and we will deliver that pipeline of enhancements across Wales.
A dyma'r gwirionedd anochel, y gwirionedd gwrthrychol, ac i chi eich hunain, y gwirionedd anghysurus iawn, y byddai unrhyw swm canlyniadol HS2, yn y Gymru annibynnol y byddech chi am ei gweld, yn cael ei golli mewn mater o fisoedd, yn seiliedig ar eich ffigurau eich hun—y ffigurau rydych chi eich hunain wedi'u derbyn. A byddai'n cael ei golli heb unrhyw welliannau i'w dangos amdano yn y seilwaith rheilffyrdd. Yn hytrach, rydym ni'n gweithio mewn partneriaeth â Llywodraeth y DU, a byddwn yn cyflawni'r llif o welliannau ledled Cymru.
Galwaf ar Heledd Fychan i ymateb i'r ddadl.
I call on Heledd Fychan to reply to the debate.
Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd. If you want a debate about independence, we'll have a debate about independence. Please table one in Government time, because this is not a debate about independence today. And thank you too for confirming what we've all feared since the election, that the Welsh Government are just now the UK Government's spokespersons here in this Chamber. Jane Dodds was completely right to ask the very, very pertinent question of what's wrong with the demands in the motion. And Alun Davies was completely right; we should be seeking common ground. On things that matter to people in our communities, on things that make a difference, we should be seeking common ground, because we all know of the issues that are there. Nor is this a debate about Transport for Wales. That's not what this debate is about. So, we can try and state some of the things that are happening, yes, welcome some of the investment we've seen, but that doesn't detract from the fact that Wales has suffered historic underfunding and there is no light at the end of the tunnel in terms of that remedy at present.
Diolch, Ddirprwy Lywydd. Os ydych chi eisiau dadl am annibyniaeth, fe gawn ddadl am annibyniaeth. Cyflwynwch un yn amser y Llywodraeth, oherwydd nid dadl am annibyniaeth yw hon heddiw. A diolch hefyd am gadarnhau'r hyn y mae pawb ohonom wedi'i ofni ers yr etholiad, mai llefarwyr ar ran Llywodraeth y DU yw Llywodraeth Cymru yma yn y Siambr. Roedd Jane Dodds yn gwbl gywir i ofyn y cwestiwn perthnasol iawn ynglŷn â beth sydd o'i le ar y galwadau yn y cynnig. Ac roedd Alun Davies yn hollol gywir; dylem chwilio am dir cyffredin. Ar bethau sy'n bwysig i bobl yn ein cymunedau, ar bethau sy'n gwneud gwahaniaeth, dylem chwilio am dir cyffredin, oherwydd rydym i gyd yn gwybod am y problemau sydd yno. Nid dadl yw hon ychwaith am Trafnidiaeth Cymru. Nid am hynny y mae'r ddadl hon. Felly, gallwn geisio datgan rhai o'r pethau sy'n digwydd, gallwn, a chroesawu peth o'r buddsoddiad a welsom, ond nid yw hynny'n tynnu oddi wrth y ffaith bod Cymru wedi dioddef tanariannu hanesyddol ac nad oes golau ym mhen draw'r twnnel i unioni hynny ar hyn o bryd.
Rydych chi wedi clywed y dadleuon. Maen nhw'n ddadleuon sydd wedi eu selio ar ffeithiau. Rydym ni wedi gweld y Llywodraeth Lafur hon, yn anffodus, trwy gyflwyno'r gwelliant hwn a cheisio ei gyfiawnhau—a dweud y gwir, ddim hyd yn oed wedi ceisio ei gyfiawnhau yn yr ymateb—yn troi eu cefn ar eu hegwyddorion, yn troi eu cefn ar bobl Cymru, ac, yn anffodus, yn rhoi buddiannau Keir Starmer a'r Blaid Lafur o flaen buddiannau Cymru. A does dim gwadu un gwirionedd sydd wrth wraidd y ddadl hon: mae Cymru yn cael ei hamddifadu o'r buddsoddiad yn ein rheilffyrdd rydym ni ei angen ac yn ei haeddu.
Mae Ysgrifennydd Gwladol dros Drafnidiaeth y Deyrnas Unedig wedi cyfaddef bod Cymru yn hanesyddol wedi dioddef lefelau isel o wariant ar wella ein rheilffyrdd, ac mae'r ffigurau yn siarad drostyn nhw eu hunain. Rhwng 2019 a 2029, bydd Cymru yn wynebu diffyg o rhwng £2.4 biliwn a £5.1 biliwn mewn cyllid i wella rheilffyrdd o'i gymharu â’n poblogaeth a maint ein rhwydwaith. Mae'r tangyllido systematig hwn hyd yn oed yn fwy syfrdanol o gofio bod yr arian canlyniadol HS2 hefyd heb ei roi i ni, anghyfiawnder y mae'n rhaid i'r Llywodraeth bresennol ei unioni.
You have heard the arguments. They are arguments that are based on facts. We've seen this Welsh Government, unfortunately, in putting forward this amendment and seeking to justify it—although they haven't even tried to justify it, truth be told, in the response—turning their back on their principles, turning their back on the people of Wales, and, unfortunately, putting the interests of Keir Starmer and the Labour Party before the interests of Wales. And there is no denying the truth at the heart of this debate, namely that Wales is being deprived of the investment in its railways that we need and that we deserve.
The Secretary of State for Transport in the UK has admitted that Wales has historically suffered very low levels of expenditure on rail improvements, and the figures speak for themselves. Between 2019 and 2029, Wales will face a deficit of between £2.4 billion and £5.1 billion in funding to improve the railways as compared to our population and the size of our network. This systematic underfunding is even more shocking bearing in mind the consequentials for HS2 also haven’t been given to us, an injustice the current Government needs to address.
Yet, despite these damning admissions, the UK Government continues to deepen this inequity. The reported freeze on major new rail projects until after the next UK general election only serves to entrench Wales’s underinvestment for years to come, and even the pledges that have been made to people in Wales—vital commitments from the UK Government, such as electrifying the north Wales main line—they remain unfulfilled. What makes things even more unacceptable is that Labour MSs in this very Chamber have previously called for Wales to receive HS2 consequentials, and yet today the Welsh Government has tabled an amendment removing this call. They’ve acknowledged even today during the debate the unfairness of the current situation. We didn’t hear that from the Cabinet Secretary. Yet party leadership in Westminster refuses to ask—[Interruption.] Oh, sorry.
Ac eto, er gwaethaf y cyfaddefiadau damniol hyn, mae Llywodraeth y DU yn parhau i ddyfnhau'r annhegwch. Nid yw'r rhewi y soniwyd amdano ar brosiectau rheilffyrdd mawr newydd tan ar ôl etholiad cyffredinol nesaf y DU ond yn dyfnhau'r tanfuddsoddiad yng Nghymru am flynyddoedd i ddod, ac mae hyd yn oed yr addewidion a wnaed i bobl yng Nghymru—ymrwymiadau hollbwysig gan Lywodraeth y DU, megis trydaneiddio prif reilffordd gogledd Cymru—maent yn parhau heb eu cyflawni. Yr hyn sy'n gwneud pethau hyd yn oed yn fwy annerbyniol yw bod Aelodau Llafur o'r Senedd yn y Siambr hon wedi galw'n flaenorol am roi symiau canlyniadol HS2 i Gymru, ac eto heddiw mae Llywodraeth Cymru wedi cyflwyno gwelliant yn dileu'r alwad hon. Maent wedi cydnabod, heddiw yn ystod y ddadl hyd yn oed, pa mor annheg yw'r sefyllfa bresennol. Ni chlywsom hynny gan Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet. Eto i gyd, mae arweinyddiaeth y blaid yn San Steffan yn gwrthod gofyn—[Torri ar draws.] O, mae'n ddrwg gennyf.
Thank you for saying that, and would you agree with me that it seems that there may be agreement across the Labour benches in terms of HS2 consequentials coming here to Wales, and that the motion in terms of what you’ve set down may be something that is agreed and accepted by Welsh Labour? So, would it be the case that you would expect that there might be a change of mind here and that, actually, we might see Welsh Labour actually voting for your motion and therefore actually showing that we can all work together when it comes to something so important as this? Diolch yn fawr iawn.
Diolch am ddweud hynny, ac a fyddech chi'n cytuno â mi ei bod hi'n ymddangos y gallai fod cytundeb ar draws y meinciau Llafur ynghylch symiau canlyniadol HS2 yn dod yma i Gymru, ac y gallai'r cynnig a gyflwynwyd gennych fod yn rhywbeth y mae Llafur Cymru yn cytuno yn ei gylch ac yn ei dderbyn? Felly, a fyddai'n wir y byddech chi'n disgwyl y gallai fod newid meddwl yma ac mewn gwirionedd, efallai y gwelwn Lafur Cymru yn pleidleisio dros eich cynnig ac felly'n dangos y gallwn i gyd weithio gyda'n gilydd ar rywbeth mor bwysig â hyn? Diolch yn fawr iawn.
Thank you for that intervention, Jane. I’m a similar kind of politician to you in terms of I would hope that that logic would work, that, where we agree, we can unite, and I would ask Labour colleagues who expressed their commitment today to what’s actually in our motion, not the amendment, to reflect on that when voting. We are constrained by the fact, sometimes, that we’re told to vote in a certain way. This is important for our communities and I would hope it’s not too late for Labour to say that they won’t be going forward with their amendment. So, perhaps you would like to reflect on that so that we can unite, because these are things we used to agree on. Only a few months ago, you used to agree with us, so why vote against a motion that you used to agree with? And some of you still do. So, I would urge, if we could have one united voice today—. Wouldn’t it be so much stronger, if we as a Senedd were able to unite? Send that clear message: the position as it is is unacceptable and we demand action.
Diolch am yr ymyriad, Jane. Rwy'n wleidydd tebyg i chi yn yr ystyr y byddwn yn gobeithio y byddai'r rhesymeg honno'n gweithio, lle'r ydym yn cytuno, y gallwn uno, a gofynnaf i gyd-Aelodau Llafur a fynegodd eu hymrwymiad heddiw i'r hyn sydd yn ein cynnig ni mewn gwirionedd, nid y gwelliant, fyfyrio ar hynny wrth bleidleisio. Cawn ein cyfyngu weithiau gan y ffaith y dywedir wrthym am bleidleisio mewn ffordd benodol. Mae hyn yn bwysig i'n cymunedau ac rwy'n gobeithio nad yw'n rhy hwyr i Lafur ddweud na fyddant yn bwrw ymlaen â'u gwelliant. Felly, efallai yr hoffech chi fyfyrio ar hynny fel y gallwn uno, oherwydd mae'r rhain yn bethau yr arferem gytuno yn eu cylch. Ychydig fisoedd yn ôl yn unig, roeddech chi'n cytuno â ni, felly pam pleidleisio yn erbyn cynnig yr oeddech chi'n arfer cytuno ag ef? Ac mae rhai ohonoch chi'n dal i wneud. Felly, rwy'n eich annog, os gallwn gael un llais unedig heddiw—. Oni fyddai'n gymaint cryfach, pe baem ni fel Senedd yn gallu uno? Anfonwch y neges glir honno: mae'r sefyllfa fel y mae'n annerbyniol ac rydym yn mynnu gwell.
Will you take an intervention? Again, on this notion of uniting, I can certainly unite, as I said earlier, behind the Cabinet Secretary’s ambitions around a pipeline of projects, but the truth of the matter is they're a pipeline of projects that should be happening anyway, and the fact that we have been denied funding over the years makes us somehow have to feel incredibly grateful for getting what we should be getting anyway.
A wnewch chi dderbyn ymyriad? Unwaith eto, ar y syniad o uno, fe allaf i'n bendant uno, fel y dywedais yn gynharach, y tu ôl i uchelgeisiau Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet am lif o brosiectau, ond y gwir amdani yw ei fod yn llif o brosiectau a ddylai fod yn digwydd beth bynnag, ac mae'r ffaith inni gael ein hamddifadu o gyllid dros y blynyddoedd yn gwneud inni deimlo rywsut fod rhaid inni fod yn hynod ddiolchgar am yr hyn y dylem ei gael beth bynnag.
Absolutely. That’s the crux of the matter. We should be standing firm that HS2 is an England-only project and that Wales must receive its fair share of consequential. That’s one thing where the Conservatives were willing to stand up to the UK Conservative Government. I wish that you would be able to do the same, and I hope you will by supporting our motion today.
Further, I hope we can unite to demand that the UK Government reverses decades of underfunding and finally delivers the investment our rail network desperately needs. This is about ambition, it is about fairness, it is about parity and equity, and it is about standing up for Wales and our communities. We cannot allow Westminster to continue to treat us as an afterthought. The status quo is failing our people, as outlined by Luke Fletcher, it’s failing our economy, it’s also failing our future. It is time for Wales to receive the rail infrastructure that we need and that we deserve. I ask every Member of this Senedd: support today’s motion unamended. Send that message. We should be united on this.
Yn hollol. Dyna hanfod y mater. Dylem ddatgan yn gadarn fod HS2 yn brosiect i Loegr yn unig a bod rhaid i Gymru gael ei chyfran deg o gyllid canlyniadol. Dyna un peth yr oedd y Ceidwadwyr yn fodlon sefyll drosto yn erbyn Llywodraeth Geidwadol y DU. Hoffwn pe baech chi'n gallu gwneud yr un peth, ac rwy'n gobeithio y gwnewch chi trwy gefnogi ein cynnig heddiw.
Ymhellach, rwy'n gobeithio y gallwn uno i fynnu bod Llywodraeth y DU yn gwrthdroi degawdau o danariannu ac o'r diwedd yn sicrhau'r buddsoddiad sydd ei angen ar ein rhwydwaith rheilffyrdd. Mae hyn yn ymwneud ag uchelgais, mae'n ymwneud â thegwch, mae'n ymwneud â chydraddoldeb, ac mae'n ymwneud â sefyll dros Gymru a'n cymunedau. Ni allwn ganiatáu i San Steffan barhau i'n trin fel ôl-ystyriaeth. Mae'r status quo yn siomi ein pobl, fel y nododd Luke Fletcher, mae'n gwneud cam â'n heconomi, mae hefyd yn gwneud cam â'n dyfodol. Mae'n bryd i Gymru gael y seilwaith rheilffyrdd yr ydym ei angen ac yn ei haeddu. Gofynnaf i bob Aelod o'r Senedd hon: cefnogwch y cynnig heddiw heb ei ddiwygio. Anfonwch y neges honno. Rhaid inni fod yn unedig ar hyn.
Y cwestiwn yw: a ddylid derbyn y cynnig heb ei ddiwygio? A oes unrhyw Aelod yn gwrthwynebu? [Gwrthwynebiad.] Oes, dwi wedi clywed gwrthwynebiad. Felly, gohiriaf y bleidlais o dan yr eitem hon tan y cyfnod pleidleisio.
The proposal is to agree the motion without amendment. Does any Member object? [Objection.] Yes, there are objections. I will therefore defer voting on this item until voting time.
Gohiriwyd y pleidleisio tan y cyfnod pleidleisio.
Voting deferred until voting time.
Ac yr ydym wedi cyrraedd y cyfnod pleidleisio hwnnw nawr. Oni bai fod tri Aelod yn dymuno i mi ganu'r gloch, symudaf yn syth i'r cyfnod pleidleisio.
Bydd yr unig bleidlais heddiw ar eitem 8, a galwaf am bleidlais ar y cynnig heb ei ddiwygio yn enw Heledd Fychan. Os gwrthodir y cynnig, byddwn yn pleidleisio ar y gwelliannau a gyflwynwyd i'r cynnig. Agor y bleidlais. Cau'r bleidlais. O blaid—[Torri ar draws.]
And that brings us to voting time. Unless three Members wish for the bell to be rung, I will move directly to voting time.
The only vote this evening will be on item 8, and I call for a vote on the motion without amendment tabled in the name of Heledd Fychan. If the proposal is not agreed, we will vote on the amendments tabled to the motion. Open the vote. Close the vote—[Interruption.]
I've closed the vote at the moment, Janet. As it happens, I don't think it'll change the outcome of the vote. Can we check it before we go on to the next set of votes, though, please, okay?
Rwyf wedi cau'r bleidlais ar hyn o bryd, Janet. Fel mae'n digwydd, nid wyf yn credu y bydd yn newid canlyniad y bleidlais. Ond a gawn ni ei wirio cyn inni fynd ymlaen at y set nesaf o bleidleisiau, os gwelwch yn dda, iawn?
O blaid 12, neb yn ymatal, 42 yn erbyn. Felly, mae'r cynnig wedi ei wrthod.
In favour 12, no abstentions, 42 against. Therefore, the motion is not agreed.
Eitem 8. Dadl Plaid Cymru - Cyllid seilwaith rheilffyrdd. Cynnig heb ei ddiwygio: O blaid: 12, Yn erbyn: 42, Ymatal: 0
Gwrthodwyd y cynnig
Item 8. Plaid Cymru Debate - Rail infrastructure funding. Motion without amendment: For: 12, Against: 42, Abstain: 0
Motion has been rejected
Before I move on, I want to just check the system is working for Janet. Yes. Okay.
Cyn i mi symud ymlaen, rwyf am wirio bod y system yn gweithio i Janet. Ydy. O'r gorau.
Galwaf am bleidlais nawr ar welliant 1, yn enw Jane Hutt. Os derbynnir gwelliant 1, caiff gwelliant 2 ei ddad-ddethol. Agor y bleidlais. Cau'r bleidlais. O blaid 28, neb yn ymatal, 27 yn erbyn. Felly, mae gwelliant 1 wedi ei dderbyn.
I now call for a vote on amendment 1, tabled in the name of Jane Hutt. If amendment 1 is agreed, amendment 2 will be deselected. Open the vote. Close the vote. In favour 28, no abstentions, 27 against. Therefore, amendment 1 is agreed.
Eitem 8. Dadl Plaid Cymru - Cyllid seilwaith rheilffyrdd. Gwelliant 1, a gyflwynwyd yn enw Jane Hutt: O blaid: 28, Yn erbyn: 27, Ymatal: 0
Derbyniwyd y gwelliant
Item 8. Plaid Cymru Debate - Rail infrastructure funding. Amendment 1, tabled in the name of Jane Hutt: For: 28, Against: 27, Abstain: 0
Amendment has been agreed
Cafodd gwelliant 2 ei ddad-dethol.
Amendment 2 deselected.
Galwaf nawr am bleidlais ar y cynnig wedi ei ddiwygio.
I now call for a vote on the motion as amended.
Cynnig NDM8852 fel y’i diwygiwyd:
Cynnig bod y Senedd:
1. Yn croesawu:
a) bod Llywodraeth y DU wedi cydnabod y lefelau hanesyddol o isel o wariant ar y rheilffyrdd yng Nghymru; a
b) y ffaith bod Llywodraeth y DU wedi cefnogi cyfres o flaenoriaethau ar gyfer gwella’r rheilffyrdd a bennwyd gan fwrdd Rheilffyrdd Cymru.
2. Yn nodi bod Llywodraeth Cymru yn ceisio sicrhau:
a) cyllid ar gyfer cyfres uchelgeisiol o welliannau i’r rheilffyrdd, gan gychwyn gyda chyflawni argymhellion Comisiynau Trafnidiaeth Gogledd Cymru a De-ddwyrain Cymru;
b) adolygiad o brosesau buddsoddi Network Rail er mwyn sicrhau bod Cymru’n derbyn cyfran deg o fuddsoddiad Network Rail yn y dyfodol;
c) cyllid ar gyfer gwelliannau i Linellau Craidd y Cymoedd; a
d) lefel briodol o gymhared gyda rhaglenni perthnasol Llywodraeth y DU o fewn fformiwla Barnett, gan gydnabod bod y cyfrifoldeb am y rhan hon o’r rhwydwaith rheilffyrdd yng Nghymru bellach wedi’i ddatganoli.
Motion NDM8852 as amended:
To propose that the Senedd:
1. Welcomes:
a) that the UK Government has acknowledged the historic low levels of spending on railways in Wales; and
b) the endorsement by the UK Government of a pipeline of rail enhancement priorities identified by the Wales Rail Board.
2. Notes that the Welsh Government is seeking to secure:
a) funding for an ambitious pipeline of rail enhancements, starting with the delivery of the recommendations of the North Wales and South East Wales Transport Commissions;
b) a review of Network Rail investment processes to ensure Wales receives a fair share of future Network Rail investment;
c) funding for Core Valley Lines rail enhancements; and
d) an appropriate level of comparability with relevant UK Government programmes in the Barnett formula, recognising that responsibility for this part of the rail network in Wales is now devolved.
Agor y bleidlais. Cau'r bleidlais. O blaid 29, neb yn ymatal, 26 yn erbyn. Felly, mae'r cynnig wedi ei ddiwygio wedi ei dderbyn.
Open the vote. Close the vote. In favour 29, no abstentions, 26 against. Therefore, the motion as amended is agreed.
Eitem 8. Dadl Plaid Cymru - Cyllid seilwaith rheilffyrdd. Cynnig wedi’i ddiwygio: O blaid: 29, Yn erbyn: 26, Ymatal: 0
Derbyniwyd y cynnig fel y'i diwygiwyd
Item 8. Plaid Cymru Debate - Rail infrastructure funding. Motion as amended: For: 29, Against: 26, Abstain: 0
Motion as amended has been agreed
Dyna ddiwedd ar y pleidleisio heddiw.
That concludes voting for this evening.
Symudwn ymlaen. Yr eitem nesaf yw'r ddadl fer. Galwaf ar Jenny Rathbone.
We will move on to our next item, the short debate. I call on Jenny Rathbone.
If Members are leaving, please do so quietly.
Os oes Aelodau'n gadael, gwnewch hynny'n dawel os gwelwch yn dda.
Since the end of January, Cardiff University has been engulfed in an existential crisis that could threaten its future as the largest and best resourced university in Wales. Cardiff University has played a huge role in the work of both the Senedd and the Welsh Government. It's the largest training school for doctors, dentists, nurses and allied health professionals in Wales. It also has the only planning school across Wales, and, given the increasing divergence of planning law between England and Wales, we clearly need a pipeline of planners in our local authorities who are familiar with the Well-being of Future Generations (Wales) Act 2015 and the detail of Welsh planning law to negotiate the best possible deals with applicants and make sound recommendations to their elected members.
Its mathematics and its music departments provide large numbers of specialist teachers for our secondary schools, and I know from experience it's already extremely challenging to recruit specialist maths teachers in secondary schools. Where then will the brilliant mathematicians of the future come from unless they have inspirational teachers? How on earth are we going to maintain a centre of excellence for semiconductors in south Wales unless we can develop and retain the skills to keep those international organisations from decamping to another part of the world where those sorts of skills are readily available? If we don't have a modern foreign languages department in the future, what impact will it have on Wales's strategy for inward investment and selling Welsh goods and services to other countries? Are we really confident that it will be sufficient to rely on people of other nations speaking English?
I accept that no change is not an option. Cardiff University is currently subsidising its day-to-day operations from its reserves to the tune of £31 million a year, and, frankly, we don't really know the extent of the financial challenges it is grappling with. All universities are struggling, with the UK Government killing off the golden goose of higher fees for foreign students, which enabled universities to cross-subsidise the cost of their teaching because the fees paid by home students no longer cover the cost of the courses they need to complete. And the cost-of-living crisis has reduced the numbers prepared to take on the debts they inherit as soon as they graduate.
Ers diwedd mis Ionawr, mae Prifysgol Caerdydd wedi wynebu argyfwng dirfodol a allai fygwth ei dyfodol fel y brifysgol fwyaf, ac sydd â'r adnoddau gorau, yng Nghymru. Mae Prifysgol Caerdydd wedi chwarae rhan enfawr yng ngwaith y Senedd a Llywodraeth Cymru. Dyma'r ysgol hyfforddi fwyaf i feddygon, deintyddion, nyrsys a gweithwyr proffesiynol perthynol i iechyd yng Nghymru. Ganddi hi y mae'r unig ysgol gynllunio ledled Cymru hefyd, ac o ystyried y gwahaniaeth cynyddol rhwng cyfraith gynllunio Cymru a Lloegr, mae'n amlwg fod angen llif o gynllunwyr yn ein hawdurdodau lleol sy'n gyfarwydd â Deddf Llesiant Cenedlaethau'r Dyfodol (Cymru) 2015 a manylion cyfraith gynllunio Cymru i drafod y cytundebau gorau posibl gydag ymgeiswyr ac i wneud argymhellion cadarn i'w haelodau etholedig.
Mae ei hadrannau mathemateg a cherddoriaeth yn darparu nifer fawr o athrawon arbenigol i'n hysgolion uwchradd, ac rwy'n gwybod o brofiad ei bod eisoes yn hynod heriol i recriwtio athrawon mathemateg arbenigol mewn ysgolion uwchradd. O ble felly y daw mathemategwyr disglair y dyfodol oni bai bod ganddynt athrawon ysbrydoledig? Sut ar y ddaear y gwnawn ni gynnal canolfan ragoriaeth ar gyfer lled-ddargludyddion yn ne Cymru oni allwn ddatblygu a chadw'r sgiliau i gadw'r sefydliadau rhyngwladol hynny rhag codi pac a symud i ran arall o'r byd lle mae'r mathau hynny o sgiliau ar gael yn rhwydd? Os nad oes gennym adran ieithoedd tramor modern yn y dyfodol, pa effaith y bydd hynny'n ei chael ar strategaeth Cymru ar gyfer mewnfuddsoddi a gwerthu nwyddau a gwasanaethau o Gymru i wledydd eraill? A ydym yn hyderus y bydd dibynnu ar barodrwydd pobl mewn gwledydd eraill i siarad Saesneg yn ddigon?
Rwy'n derbyn nad yw dim newid yn opsiwn. Ar hyn o bryd mae Prifysgol Caerdydd yn rhoi £31 miliwn y flwyddyn tuag at ei gweithrediadau o ddydd i ddydd o'i chronfeydd wrth gefn, ac a dweud y gwir, nid ydym yn gwybod faint o heriau ariannol y mae'n ymrafael â hwy. Mae pob prifysgol yn ei chael hi'n anodd, gyda Llywodraeth y DU yn colli budd ffioedd uwch i fyfyrwyr tramor, a oedd yn galluogi prifysgolion i groes-sybsideiddio cost eu haddysgu am nad yw'r ffioedd a delir gan fyfyrwyr cartref bellach yn talu cost y cyrsiau y mae angen iddynt eu cwblhau. Ac mae'r argyfwng costau byw wedi lleihau'r niferoedd sy'n barod i ysgwyddo'r dyledion a etifeddant cyn gynted ag y byddant yn graddio.
Those challenges are just the tip of the iceberg. Universities may still have charitable status, but they've long been able to take on all sorts of financial instruments to fund their ambitions. In February 2016, Cardiff raised a £300 million loan on the bond market at 3.1 per cent interest, repayable in 2055—a very long time ahead. When I asked the then Welsh education Minister what he knew about this bond, he could not recall even being told about it, never mind what it was for. A more modest additional sum of £126 million was raised subsequently via bond. Cardiff University's consolidated debt now stands at £321 million, according to its most recent accounts.
Many Members have pointed out that Cardiff has much larger reserves than other Welsh universities, and the University and College Union is arguing that the financial stability of Cardiff could be achieved by deploying reserves, rather than severely shrinking the size of the university's staff and student intake. It's really quite hard for outsiders to be able to assess just how much financial difficulty Cardiff is in or, indeed, what financial liability other Welsh universities have acquired. What is a sustainable level of debt for large not-for-profit institutions like universities? What is being funded with the borrowing, and does it create significant new revenue streams that can be used to service that debt? Is the assumption that large principals will have their value eroded by inflation in the intervening years? We're not yet in the situation that we have in the United States, where you have rollover re-financing, but the Welsh Government may know a lot more than we do, as the public, or indeed, the public. But, clearly, until and unless the Welsh Government has a clear idea of the situation across all our universities, it's very difficult to know what its role might be, and simply clamouring from the opposition to fund it out of its difficulties really isn't sufficient.
I've spoken to a wide range of Cardiff academics and I've yet to find any support for the university's academic future proposals. Perhaps the most humbling moment was talking to two maths professors, Professor Marklof, who is president of the London Mathematical Society, and Professor Terry Lyons of Oxford, Bristol and Cardiff universities. Between them, they have marshalled an open letter to the university, which has been signed by nearly 4,000 mathematicians from across the world. Clearly, this is not doing Cardiff's reputation any good. Individual schools of excellence are horrified that they may be bundled into new colleges, many of them losing the research and teaching profile they have built up over years. Cardiff's senedd has now rejected these proposals, and I hope the vice-chancellor and her executive board will reflect and think again, because, when you're in a hole, stop digging.
The ability of universities to collaborate, to work as a team, to hammer out common principles on things like widening access or streamlining research expertise seems to me to be crucial to ensuring that Wales has a thriving university sector, serving the whole of Wales. I understand that that's how it works in Scotland, and we clearly need a team Wales approach if we all want our universities to all survive and thrive. We can't simply have departments of music cut, the whole of nursing courses culled, without discussion or exploring alternatives, either at Cardiff or at another higher education institution. Why did this not happen before? Well, apparently, Universities UK advised them that they couldn’t talk to each other until they had published proposals, because they might fall foul of the Competition and Markets Authority. I tackled the Universities UK chief executive at the reception at Techniquest where the Minister spoke. She promised to get back to me, but I have yet to hear from her, so we really do need to understand what collaboration means, and why if, in Scotland, it’s possible to collaborate and to agree basic points of principle, it’s not possible in Wales or, indeed, anywhere else.
There is plenty of research collaboration that goes on between universities across the UK. For example, Cardiff has a partnership with five other universities: Bath, Bristol, Exeter, Southampton and Surrey. With a research portfolio of over £600 million, the SETsquared Partnership has produced over 230 spin-out companies through collaboration across regional innovation ecosystems. Unless Welsh universities collaborate with each other, both in Wales and across Europe, we will never overcome the significant imbalances in equity funding that mean that start-ups in the region raise, on average, five times less at the early stages than in the golden triangle of Oxford, Cambridge and London.
Therefore, I hope that we will hear from the Minister exactly how we are going to move forward on this. Cardiff clearly has to make some changes. They can’t spend money that they haven’t got. But, clearly, these proposals have got to be agreed in social partnership with their main stakeholders, which are principally their staff, who are all highly intelligent and opinionated individuals, as well as the students. Hopefully, then, we will recover a lot of the damage that we have seen occurring over the last couple of months.
Deputy Presiding Officer, I forgot to say that I had agreed to give a minute to Julie Morgan and Cefin Campbell. Thank you.
Dim ond crib y rhewfryn yw'r heriau hynny. Efallai fod gan brifysgolion statws elusennol o hyd, ond maent wedi gallu defnyddio pob math o offerynnau ariannol ers amser maith i ariannu eu huchelgeisiau. Ym mis Chwefror 2016, cododd Caerdydd fenthyciad o £300 miliwn ar y farchnad bondiau ar log o 3.1 y cant, a ddôi'n ad-daladwy yn 2055—ymhell i'r dyfodol. Pan ofynnais i Weinidog addysg Cymru ar y pryd beth a wyddai am y bond, ni allai gofio cael gwybod amdano hyd yn oed, heb sôn am beth oedd ei bwrpas. Codwyd swm ychwanegol mwy cymedrol o £126 miliwn wedi hynny trwy fond. Mae dyled gyfunol Prifysgol Caerdydd bellach yn £321 miliwn, yn ôl ei chyfrifon diweddaraf.
Mae llawer o Aelodau wedi nodi bod gan Gaerdydd gronfeydd wrth gefn llawer mwy na phrifysgolion eraill Cymru, ac mae'r Undeb Prifysgolion a Cholegau'n dadlau y gellid sicrhau sefydlogrwydd ariannol Caerdydd trwy ddefnyddio cronfeydd wrth gefn, yn hytrach na lleihau niferoedd staff a myfyrwyr y brifysgol yn ddifrifol. Mae'n anodd iawn i bobl ar y tu allan asesu faint o anhawster ariannol y mae Caerdydd ynddo, neu'n wir, beth yw atebolrwydd ariannol prifysgolion eraill Cymru. Beth sy'n lefel gynaliadwy o ddyled i sefydliadau dielw mawr fel prifysgolion? Beth sy'n cael ei ariannu gyda'r benthyciadau, ac a yw'n creu ffrydiau refeniw newydd sylweddol y gellir eu defnyddio i dalu'r ddyled honno? A yw'r dybiaeth y bydd gwerth prifsymiau mawr yn cael ei erydu gan chwyddiant yn y blynyddoedd sy'n dilyn? Nid ydym eto yn y sefyllfa a welir yn yr Unol Daleithiau, lle mae gennych ailariannu treigl, ond efallai y bydd Llywodraeth Cymru yn gwybod llawer mwy na ni a'r cyhoedd. Ond yn amlwg, hyd nes y bydd gan Lywodraeth Cymru syniad clir o'r sefyllfa ar draws ein holl brifysgolion, mae'n anodd iawn gwybod beth y gallai ei rôl fod, ac nid yw galwadau gan yr wrthblaid am ddarparu arian i'w thynnu o'i hanawsterau yn ddigon.
Rwyf wedi siarad ag ystod eang o academyddion Caerdydd ac nid wyf eto wedi dod o hyd i unrhyw gefnogaeth i gynigion academaidd y brifysgol yn y dyfodol. Efallai mai'r foment fwyaf darostyngol oedd siarad â dau athro mathemateg, yr Athro Marklof, sy'n llywydd Cymdeithas Fathemategol Llundain, a'r Athro Terry Lyons o brifysgolion Rhydychen, Bryste a Chaerdydd. Rhyngddynt, maent wedi llunio llythyr agored at y brifysgol, a lofnodwyd gan bron i 4,000 o fathemategwyr o bob cwr o'r byd. Yn amlwg, nid yw hyn yn gwneud unrhyw les i enw da Caerdydd. Mae ysgolion rhagoriaeth unigol yn arswydo y gallent gael eu huno'n golegau newydd, gyda llawer ohonynt yn colli'r proffil ymchwil ac addysgu y maent wedi'i ddatblygu dros flynyddoedd. Mae senedd prifysgol Caerdydd bellach wedi gwrthod y cynigion hyn, ac rwy'n gobeithio y bydd yr is-ganghellor a'i bwrdd gweithredol yn myfyrio ac yn meddwl eto, oherwydd, pan fyddwch mewn twll, rhowch y gorau i dyllu.
Mae'n ymddangos i mi fod gallu prifysgolion i gydweithio, i weithio fel tîm, i atgyfnerthu egwyddorion cyffredin ar bethau fel ehangu mynediad neu symleiddio arbenigedd ymchwil yn hanfodol i sicrhau bod gan Gymru sector prifysgolion ffyniannus, sy'n gwasanaethu Cymru gyfan. Rwy'n deall mai dyna sut y mae'n gweithio yn yr Alban, ac mae'n amlwg fod angen dull tîm Cymru arnom os ydym i gyd eisiau i'n prifysgolion oroesi a ffynnu. Ni allwn adael i adrannau cerddoriaeth gael eu torri, cyrsiau nyrsio cyfan wedi'u dileu, heb drafodaeth nac archwilio dewisiadau amgen, naill ai yng Nghaerdydd neu mewn sefydliad addysg uwch arall. Pam na ddigwyddodd hyn yn flaenorol? Wel, mae'n debyg fod Universities UK wedi dweud wrthynt na allent siarad â'i gilydd hyd nes eu bod wedi cyhoeddi cynigion, oherwydd gallent dramgwyddo'r Awdurdod Cystadleuaeth a Marchnadoedd. Holais brif weithredwr Universities UK yn y derbyniad yn Techniquest lle'r oedd y Gweinidog yn siarad. Addawodd ddod yn ôl ataf, ond nid wyf wedi clywed ganddi eto, felly mae gwir angen inni ddeall beth y mae cydweithio'n ei olygu, ac os yw'n bosibl cydweithio yn yr Alban a chytuno ar bwyntiau sylfaenol o egwyddor, pam nad yw'n bosibl yng Nghymru, neu unrhyw le arall yn wir.
Mae digon o gydweithio ar ymchwil yn digwydd rhwng prifysgolion ar draws y DU. Er enghraifft, mae gan Gaerdydd bartneriaeth â phump o brifysgolion eraill: Caerfaddon, Bryste, Caerwysg, Southampton a Surrey. Gyda phortffolio ymchwil o dros £600 miliwn, mae SETsquared Partnership wedi cynhyrchu dros 230 o gwmnïau allgynhyrchu trwy gydweithio ar draws ecosystemau arloesi rhanbarthol. Oni bai bod prifysgolion Cymru'n cydweithio â'i gilydd, yng Nghymru ac ar draws Ewrop, ni fyddwn byth yn goresgyn yr anghydbwysedd sylweddol mewn cyllid ecwiti sy'n golygu bod cwmnïau newydd yn y rhanbarth yn codi, ar gyfartaledd, bum gwaith yn llai ar y camau cynnar nag yn nhriongl euraidd Rhydychen, Caergrawnt a Llundain.
Felly, rwy'n gobeithio y cawn glywed gan y Gweinidog sut yn union y byddwn yn symud ymlaen ar hyn. Yn amlwg, rhaid i Gaerdydd wneud rhai newidiadau. Ni allant wario arian nad yw ganddynt. Ond yn amlwg, rhaid cytuno ar y cynigion hyn mewn partneriaeth gymdeithasol â'u prif randdeiliaid, sef eu staff yn bennaf, sydd i gyd yn unigolion hynod ddeallus a chanddynt safbwyntiau cadarn, yn ogystal â'r myfyrwyr. Gobeithio, felly, y gallwn unioni llawer o'r niwed a welsom yn digwydd dros y misoedd diwethaf.
Ddirprwy Lywydd, anghofiais ddweud fy mod wedi cytuno i roi munud i Julie Morgan a Cefin Campbell. Diolch.
Thank you very much, Jenny, for giving me a minute of your time, and I declare an interest as my son-in-law works at the university. I think that we have all been absolutely shocked by the proposals from Cardiff University, of course, followed by cuts proposed from the University of South Wales and Bangor. The loss of so many jobs in the university sector, I think, is very, very dismaying, and the loss of the students who go to those universities. Students are our lifeblood. Young people are our lifeblood, and this is cutting off opportunities for them.
My closest links, of course, are with Cardiff, and I have been absolutely dismayed at the extent of the cuts. I have been inundated, like others, I am sure, by very distressed letters from staff, many of whom live in my constituency. I have spoken to a number of different student organisations, and I have had students come up to the constituency. Certainly, there is absolute dismay. So, I suppose that my appeal is that this is a genuine consultation, and that there will be recognition of all those feelings that have been made known and have been publicly declared during the period of the consultation so far.
I think that the consultation is halfway now, and I just hope that some of these points are going to be considered, and that there will be greater focus on collaboration, genuine working together with staff and students, so that any decisions that have to be made about the university’s future include input from the people on the ground, who know what’s actually happening. Without them and without a greater feeling of collaboration and moving together, I really fear that these decisions will really impact negatively on our universities sector in Wales.
Diolch, Jenny, am roi munud o'ch amser i mi, ac rwy'n datgan buddiant am fod fy mab-yng-nghyfraith yn gweithio yn y brifysgol. Rwy'n credu ein bod i gyd wedi ein syfrdanu'n llwyr gan y cynigion gan Brifysgol Caerdydd, wedi'u dilyn gan doriadau sydd wedi'u hargymell gan Brifysgol De Cymru a Bangor. Mae colli cymaint o swyddi yn y sector prifysgolion yn ddigalon iawn yn fy marn i, a cholli'r myfyrwyr sy'n mynd i'r prifysgolion hynny. Y myfyrwyr yw ein bywyd. Pobl ifanc yw ein bywyd, ac mae hyn yn dileu cyfleoedd iddynt.
Mae fy nghysylltiadau agosaf, wrth gwrs, gyda Chaerdydd, ac rwyf wedi fy siomi'n arw gan ba mor eang yw'r toriadau. Fel eraill, cefais lu o lythyrau gofidus iawn gan staff, y mae llawer ohonynt yn byw yn fy etholaeth. Rwyf wedi siarad â nifer o wahanol sefydliadau myfyrwyr, ac rwyf wedi cael myfyrwyr yn dod i'r etholaeth. Yn sicr, mae'r gofid yn enfawr. Felly, mae'n debyg mai fy apêl i yw y dylid cael ymgynghoriad go iawn, ac y bydd yn cydnabod yr holl deimladau a nodwyd ac sydd wedi'u datgan yn gyhoeddus yn ystod cyfnod yr ymgynghoriad hyd yma.
Rydym hanner ffordd drwy'r cyfnod ymgynghori ar hyn o bryd, ac rwy'n gobeithio y bydd rhai o'r pwyntiau hyn yn cael eu hystyried, ac y bydd mwy o ffocws ar gydweithio, gweithio ar y cyd go iawn gyda staff a myfyrwyr, fel bod unrhyw benderfyniadau y mae'n rhaid eu gwneud am ddyfodol y brifysgol yn cynnwys mewnbwn gan y bobl ar lawr gwlad sy'n gwybod beth sy'n digwydd go iawn? Hebddynt, a heb fwy o deimlad o gydweithio a symud gyda'n gilydd, rwy'n ofni'n fawr y bydd y penderfyniadau hyn yn cael effaith negyddol iawn ar ein sector prifysgolion yng Nghymru.
Our universities are part of our DNA as a nation. Even Owain Glyndŵr, 500 years ago, acknowledged the importance of further, higher education—continuing education—for the sake of the nation. So, it came as a bombshell to us when we heard of the announcement from Cardiff University—the potential of losing 400 jobs, and courses being cut as well in key areas for the growth of public sector in Wales. We have a sector that, collectively, is showing a deficit of about £70 million. That doesn't include a £20-million further hit from national insurance contributions and a further hit of about £70-million to £80-million loss through the visa changes and the loss of international recruitment.
In this Chamber a couple of weeks ago, I called for a cross-party review, including sector experts, to help us understand how we could fix this broken financial model, which clearly isn’t working. That was rejected by the Minister; she has said that she is undertaking her own review. So, like Jenny Rathbone, I’d like to understand a little bit more about the details of that review, because my understanding is that, rather than hiding behind a Westminster review, Wales will not be formally included in a UK review of higher education. 'Where does that leave us in Wales?' is my question as well to the Minister.
Clearly, we need to work quickly because of this domino effect we’ve seen across all our universities facing voluntary redundancies, compulsory redundancies, campuses under threat of closure. We can’t carry on like this, otherwise that whole sector will be decimated. So, we need to work quickly to protect that higher sector and fulfil the dreams of Owain Glyndŵr 500 years ago.
Mae ein prifysgolion yn rhan o'n DNA fel cenedl. Roedd hyd yn oed Owain Glyndŵr, 500 mlynedd yn ôl, yn cydnabod pwysigrwydd addysg bellach, uwch—parhad addysg—er budd y genedl. Felly, roedd yn sioc enfawr i ni pan glywsom y cyhoeddiad gan Brifysgol Caerdydd—y perygl o golli 400 o swyddi, a chyrsiau'n cael eu torri mewn meysydd allweddol i dwf y sector cyhoeddus yng Nghymru. Mae gennym sector sydd, gyda'i gilydd, yn dangos diffyg o tua £70 miliwn. Nid yw hynny'n cynnwys ergyd bellach o £20 miliwn o gyfraniadau yswiriant gwladol ac ergyd arall o tua £70 miliwn i £80 miliwn o golled trwy'r newidiadau fisa a cholli recriwtio rhyngwladol.
Yn y Siambr hon ychydig wythnosau yn ôl, galwais am adolygiad trawsbleidiol, gan gynnwys arbenigwyr yn y sector, i'n helpu i ddeall sut y gallem drwsio'r model ariannol toredig hwn, gan ei bod yn amlwg nad yw'n gweithio. Gwrthodwyd hynny gan y Gweinidog; mae hi wedi dweud ei bod yn cynnal ei hadolygiad ei hun. Felly, fel Jenny Rathbone, hoffwn ddeall ychydig mwy am fanylion yr adolygiad hwnnw, oherwydd yn ôl yr hyn a ddeallaf, yn hytrach na chuddio y tu ôl i adolygiad San Steffan, ni fydd Cymru'n cael ei chynnwys yn ffurfiol mewn adolygiad o addysg uwch ar gyfer y DU. 'Ble mae hynny'n ein gadael ni yng Nghymru?' yw fy nghwestiwn innau hefyd i'r Gweinidog.
Yn amlwg, mae angen inni weithio'n gyflym oherwydd yr effaith ddomino a welsom ar draws ein holl brifysgolion sy'n wynebu diswyddiadau gwirfoddol, diswyddiadau gorfodol, campysau dan fygythiad o gau. Ni allwn barhau fel hyn, neu fe fydd y sector cyfan yn cael ei anrheithio. Felly, mae angen inni weithio'n gyflym i ddiogelu'r sector uwch a gwireddu breuddwydion Owain Glyndŵr 500 mlynedd yn ôl.
Galwaf ar y Gweinidog Addysg Bellach ac Uwch i ymateb i’r ddadl—Vikki Howells.
I call on the Minister for Further and Higher Education to reply to the debate—Vikki Howell

Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd, and thank you to Jenny Rathbone for proposing this short debate. I’d like to begin by saying that the title of the short debate that was tabled is 'Ensuring Wales has a thriving university sector', and so the comments that I’ve prepared relate to that, and I think that’s the most appropriate use of the time.
I’d like to start by saying that, as our universities undergo a difficult period of transformation, it’s right and proper that we think to the future about what we want to see from our universities in Wales and how we might achieve that. If I can briefly recap the measures that we’ve taken to address these short-term and longer term challenges, before then turning to address calls that I’ve heard from some quarters to change our student support policy, and I’ll finish on the further steps that we’ll be taking over the coming months in our process of higher education reform.
Firstly, we are already on a long journey of tertiary education reform in Wales. In this current Senedd term, we passed unanimously as a Parliament the Tertiary Education and Research (Wales) Act 2022. That Act sets out, at the very top, the principles that will provide the basis for the future of our tertiary education sector, including promoting lifelong learning, equality of opportunity and widening access, increased participation across all forms of post-16 education, and greater collaboration and coherence in our tertiary education sector. Dirprwy Lywydd, this Act and these principles were set out with the prospect of the challenges now facing the sector firmly in mind. Today, we reach a new stage in this ongoing journey of tertiary education reform with the publication of Medr’s strategic plan, as required by the 2022 Act, and I’ll talk a little more about that later.
Dirprwy Lywydd, to address the more immediate challenges facing the higher education sector, we have done all we can to make available Government funding and increased revenue for our institutions. We’ve increased the tuition fee cap in two consecutive years, and, in total, we have now increased Medr’s higher education funding by £28.5 million this year compared to the budget set at the start of the year. We’ve also confirmed our continued investment in Global Wales for another year in order to promote our universities internationally, and we’ve set out our plans to reshape the Seren Academy, including increased engagement between the Seren team and our universities to ensure that we are promoting Wales as a place of study for our learners with the highest potential, regardless of their background.
Dirprwy Lywydd, the Welsh Government offers the most generous student maintenance for full-time undergraduates in the UK, with the highest levels of non-repayable grant support provided to those most in need. Our higher education funding model ensures that our universities receive comparable levels of funding per student to England, while our overall contribution to the costs of higher education through student maintenance grants means that we are spending more than twice as much as the UK Government per student. We believe that this approach to higher education funding makes effective use of public funds and a fair balance of funding for students and institutions, but we must leave no stone unturned, which is why we are currently evaluating the Diamond student support package, with initial findings due in the autumn.
Diolch, Ddirprwy Lywydd, a diolch i Jenny Rathbone am gyflwyno'r ddadl fer hon. Hoffwn ddechrau drwy ddweud mai teitl y ddadl fer a gyflwynwyd yw 'Sicrhau bod gan Gymru sector prifysgol llewyrchus', ac felly mae'r sylwadau a baratois yn ymwneud â hynny, ac rwy'n credu mai dyna'r defnydd mwyaf priodol o'r amser.
Hoffwn ddechrau drwy ddweud, wrth i'n prifysgolion wynebu cyfnod anodd o drawsnewid, ei bod yn iawn ac yn briodol ein bod yn meddwl i'r dyfodol am yr hyn rydym am ei weld gan ein prifysgolion yng Nghymru a sut y gallem gyflawni hynny. Os caf ailadrodd yn fyr y mesurau a roddwyd ar waith gennym i fynd i'r afael â'r heriau tymor byr a mwy hirdymor hyn, cyn troi wedyn i roi sylw i alwadau a glywais o rai mannau i newid ein polisi cymorth i fyfyrwyr, ac rwyf am orffen gyda'r camau pellach y byddwn yn eu cymryd dros y misoedd nesaf yn ein proses o ddiwygio addysg uwch.
Yn gyntaf, rydym eisoes ar daith hir i ddiwygio addysg drydyddol yng Nghymru. Yn nhymor presennol y Senedd, fe wnaethom basio'n unfrydol fel Senedd Ddeddf Addysg Drydyddol ac Ymchwil (Cymru) 2022. Mae'r Ddeddf honno'n nodi, ar ei brig, yr egwyddorion a fydd yn sylfaen i ddyfodol ein sector addysg drydyddol, gan gynnwys hyrwyddo dysgu gydol oes, cyfle cyfartal ac ehangu mynediad, mwy o gyfranogiad ar draws pob math o addysg ôl-16, a mwy o gydweithio a chydlyniant yn ein sector addysg drydyddol. Ddirprwy Lywydd, lluniwyd y Ddeddf a'r egwyddorion hyn gyda'r heriau sydd bellach yn wynebu'r sector yn gadarn mewn cof. Heddiw, cyrhaeddwn gam newydd yn y daith barhaus i ddiwygio addysg drydyddol gyda chyhoeddi cynllun strategol Medr, fel sy'n ofynnol gan Ddeddf 2022, a byddaf yn siarad ychydig mwy am hynny yn nes ymlaen.
Ddirprwy Lywydd, i fynd i'r afael â'r heriau mwy uniongyrchol sy'n wynebu'r sector addysg uwch, rydym wedi gwneud popeth yn ein gallu i sicrhau bod cyllid Llywodraeth a mwy o refeniw ar gael i'n sefydliadau. Rydym wedi cynyddu'r cap ar ffioedd dysgu ddwy flynedd yn olynol, a chyda'i gilydd, rydym bellach wedi cynyddu cyllid addysg uwch Medr £28.5 miliwn eleni, o'i gymharu â'r gyllideb a osodwyd ar ddechrau'r flwyddyn. Rydym hefyd wedi cadarnhau ein buddsoddiad parhaus yn Cymru Fyd-eang am flwyddyn arall er mwyn hyrwyddo ein prifysgolion yn rhyngwladol, ac rydym wedi nodi ein cynlluniau i ailsiapio Academi Seren, gan gynnwys mwy o ymgysylltiad rhwng tîm Seren a'n prifysgolion i sicrhau ein bod yn hyrwyddo Cymru fel lle i astudio ar gyfer ein dysgwyr sydd â'r potensial uchaf, ni waeth beth fo'u cefndir.
Ddirprwy Lywydd, mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn cynnig y cyllid cynhaliaeth mwyaf hael yn y DU i fyfyrwyr israddedig amser llawn, gyda'r lefelau uchaf o gymorth grant nad yw'n ad-daladwy yn cael ei ddarparu i'r rhai mwyaf anghenus. Mae ein model cyllido addysg uwch yn sicrhau bod ein prifysgolion yn cael lefelau cymharol o gyllid fesul myfyriwr i'r hyn a gânt yn Loegr, tra bod ein cyfraniad cyffredinol at gostau addysg uwch drwy grantiau cynhaliaeth i fyfyrwyr yn golygu ein bod yn gwario mwy na dwywaith cymaint â Llywodraeth y DU fesul myfyriwr. Credwn fod y dull hwn o ariannu addysg uwch yn gwneud defnydd effeithiol o arian cyhoeddus a chydbwysedd teg o gyllid i fyfyrwyr a sefydliadau, ond rhaid inni wneud popeth yn ei gallu, a dyna pam ein bod ar hyn o bryd yn gwerthuso pecyn cymorth myfyrwyr Diamond, gyda'r canfyddiadau cychwynnol i ddod yn yr hydref.
Dirprwy Lywydd, in recent weeks I've heard increasing calls from some quarters to replace all or some of our student grant scheme with student loans, and to redirect this funding to universities. I wish to take time to set out to the Chamber why, aside from whether this is the right thing to do, it is currently unlikely that such a policy would be affordable without cuts to student maintenance. Our student loan budget is limited by HM Treasury, which requires our student loan expenditure to cost the same or less than if we were to apply English policy. We've now likely maximized the amount of loan expenditure that HMT will provide, due to our student maintenance package increasing more than that in England over several recent years through its link to the national living wage, a policy that has been supported by parties across this Senedd.
Therefore, any cuts to grants would require a cut to overall student maintenance entitlement, and given the distribution of our student grant entitlements, these cuts would hit the poorest students hardest. Students would have less money in their pockets and I think it is likely that it would only harm rather than help our ambitions for expanding participation and widening access. That is not something that I am prepared to do, and I'm sure it is not something Members of this Siambr would like to see either.
Dirprwy Lywydd, the setting of student loans budgets is a highly technical policy area with significant interdependence between the Welsh and UK Governments. There are important aspects of this policy area where we believe there could be greater clarity between ourselves and UK Government on our agreed budget for us to have greater certainty about our ability to make any future changes to student support. As I set out in my written statement on 3 March, I have made this a priority issue for myself and officials to discuss with UK Government over the coming months.
Dirprwy Lywydd, as I've set out both in recent Plenary debates and in written statements, there are other areas also where we are taking forward discussions with the UK Government that will inform future policy here in Wales. Vice-chancellors have stressed to me the vital importance of being clear about the expected tuition fee limit over the next few years in order that they can plan. I'm therefore asking the UK Government to set out its fees policy across the current UK parliamentary term as soon as possible, so that I can, in turn, give universities in Wales such clarity. Universities have also expressed to me their concerns about the salary requirements for the graduate visa becoming too high in comparison to average wages in Wales, so further damaging Wales as an appealing destination for international students. I will be communicating this concern to the UK Government, as I know that my Cabinet colleagues will also, and reiterating our belief that international students are vitally important to the future financial and cultural life of our universities.
If I could turn to some of the specific questions that were posed by Jenny Rathbone: Jenny, you asked whether we have a clear idea of the financial situation of Welsh universities, and I can confirm that, yes, we absolutely do. Universities report to Medr, who in turn report to me, and I've also had confidential one-to-one meetings with each vice-chancellor as well. Medr is absolutely adamant in its belief that no university in Wales is at risk of going under, and we also are not looking at any mergers at all either.
I'd like to say, in relation to the points made by several Members about Cardiff University, I think it's really important that we remember that this is a consultation. We're still within the time frame of that consultation, and I understand from my conversations with staff and students at Cardiff University, particularly with the trade unions, that they've put in really meaningful responses to that consultation, and I'm hopeful that that will get some movement on some of the proposals that the university have put there.
Ddirprwy Lywydd, yn ystod yr wythnosau diwethaf rwyf wedi clywed galwadau cynyddol o rai mannau i fenthyciadau i fyfyrwyr gymryd lle peth neu'r cyfan o'n cynllun grantiau myfyrwyr, ac i ailgyfeirio'r cyllid hwn i brifysgolion. Heb fynd i ystyried ai dyma'r peth iawn i'w wneud, hoffwn roi amser yn y Siambr i nodi pam ei bod yn annhebygol ar hyn o bryd y byddai polisi o'r fath yn fforddiadwy heb doriadau i gyllid cynhaliaeth myfyrwyr. Mae ein cyllideb benthyciadau myfyrwyr wedi'i chyfyngu gan Drysorlys EF, sy'n ei gwneud yn ofynnol i'n gwariant benthyciadau myfyrwyr gostio'r un faint neu lai na phe baem yn cymhwyso polisi Lloegr. Mae bellach yn debygol ein bod wedi cael y swm llawn o wariant ar fenthyciadau y bydd Trysorlys EF yn ei ddarparu, oherwydd bod ein pecyn cynhaliaeth myfyrwyr wedi cynyddu mwy na'r hyn a geir yn Lloegr dros sawl blwyddyn drwy ei gyswllt â'r cyflog byw cenedlaethol, polisi sydd wedi'i gefnogi gan bleidiau ar draws y Senedd hon.
Felly, byddai unrhyw doriadau i grantiau yn galw am dorri hawl i gyllid cynhaliaeth myfyrwyr yn gyffredinol, ac o ystyried dosbarthiad ein hawliau i grant myfyrwyr, byddai'r toriadau hyn yn taro'r myfyrwyr tlotaf yn waeth. Byddai gan fyfyrwyr lai o arian yn eu pocedi ac rwy'n credu ei bod yn debygol y byddai'n niweidio yn hytrach na helpu ein huchelgais i gynyddu cyfranogiad ac ehangu mynediad. Nid yw hynny'n rhywbeth rwy'n barod i'w wneud, ac rwy'n siŵr nad yw'n rhywbeth yr hoffai Aelodau o'r Siambr hon ei weld ychwaith.
Ddirprwy Lywydd, mae gosod cyllidebau benthyciadau myfyrwyr yn faes polisi technegol iawn gyda rhyngddibyniaeth sylweddol rhwng Llywodraeth Cymru a Llywodraeth y DU. Ceir agweddau pwysig ar y maes polisi hwn lle credwn y gallai fod mwy o eglurder rhyngom ni a Llywodraeth y DU ynghylch y gyllideb y cytunwyd arni er mwyn inni gael mwy o sicrwydd ynglŷn â'n gallu i wneud unrhyw newidiadau i gymorth myfyrwyr yn y dyfodol. Fel y nodais yn fy natganiad ysgrifenedig ar 3 Mawrth, rwyf wedi gwneud hyn yn flaenoriaeth i mi a swyddogion ei drafod gyda Llywodraeth y DU dros y misoedd nesaf.
Ddirprwy Lywydd, fel y nodais mewn dadleuon yn y Cyfarfod Llawn yn ddiweddar ac mewn datganiadau ysgrifenedig, ceir meysydd eraill hefyd lle'r ydym yn bwrw ymlaen â thrafodaethau gyda Llywodraeth y DU i lywio polisi yn y dyfodol yma yng Nghymru. Mae is-gangellorion wedi pwysleisio wrthyf pa mor hanfodol bwysig yw bod yn glir ynghylch y terfyn ffioedd dysgu disgwyliedig dros y blynyddoedd nesaf er mwyn iddynt allu cynllunio. Felly, rwy'n gofyn i Lywodraeth y DU nodi ei pholisi ffioedd ar draws tymor seneddol presennol y DU cyn gynted â phosibl, fel y gallaf innau, yn fy nhro, roi eglurder o'r fath i brifysgolion yng Nghymru. Mae prifysgolion hefyd wedi mynegi eu pryderon fod y gofynion cyflog ar gyfer y fisa graddedigion yn rhy uchel o'i gymharu â chyflogau cyfartalog yng Nghymru, gan niweidio Cymru ymhellach fel cyrchfan ddeniadol i fyfyrwyr rhyngwladol. Byddaf yn cyfleu'r pryder hwn i Lywodraeth y DU, fel y gwn y bydd fy nghyd-Aelodau yn y Cabinet yn ei wneud hefyd, ac yn ailadrodd ein cred fod myfyrwyr rhyngwladol yn hanfodol bwysig i fywyd ariannol a diwylliannol ein prifysgolion yn y dyfodol.
Os caf droi at rai o'r cwestiynau penodol a ofynnodd Jenny Rathbone: Jenny, fe ofynnoch chi a oes gennym syniad clir o sefyllfa ariannol prifysgolion Cymru, a gallaf gadarnhau hynny, yn sicr. Mae prifysgolion yn adrodd wrth Medr, sydd yn ei dro yn adrodd wrthyf i, ac rwyf wedi cael cyfarfodydd cyfrinachol un i un gyda phob is-ganghellor hefyd. Mae Medr yn gwbl bendant eu cred nad oes unrhyw brifysgol yng Nghymru mewn perygl o fynd yn fethdalwr, ac nid ydym ychwaith yn edrych ar unrhyw uno.
Ar y pwyntiau a wnaed gan sawl Aelod am Brifysgol Caerdydd, rwy'n credu ei bod yn bwysig iawn inni gofio mai ymgynghoriad yw hwn. Mae'r ymgynghoriad hwnnw'n dal i fod ar y gweill, ac rwy'n deall o fy sgyrsiau gyda staff a myfyrwyr ym Mhrifysgol Caerdydd, yn enwedig gyda'r undebau llafur, eu bod wedi cyflwyno ymatebion ystyrlon iawn i'r ymgynghoriad, ac rwy'n gobeithio y bydd hynny'n sicrhau rhywfaint o symud ar rai o'r cynigion y mae'r brifysgol wedi'u cyflwyno.
You also referred, Jenny, to spin-out companies and start-ups, and I absolutely agree with your comments there and, in fact, it was a topic that came up in our round-table with the vice-chancellors that the First Minister attended alongside myself. There is clearly some really good practice already among several of our universities here in Wales, but that is something that we need to look to maximise, because we know that our universities are really key to regional economies across Wales.
Dirprwy Lywydd, looking ahead, then, I want to set out the steps that we can and will take going forward to further deliver on our ambitions for tertiary education reform, and to ensure that the sector adjusts in a way that is sustainable and meets the needs of Wales. Firstly, as previously mentioned, the Tertiary Education and Research (Wales) Act 2022 and the establishment of Medr were designed with the aim of ensuring greater collaboration and coherence between tertiary education providers. The current challenges facing our universities show us that such collaboration is no longer an option, it is a necessity.
Collaboration between institutions will make the difficult strategic choices they may be facing less damaging and painful for institutions, staff and students, and we cannot allow the perceived risk of breach of competition law to be a barrier to that. So, Medr has been seeking advice on this issue and has had a meeting with the Competition and Markets Authority to help clarify for universities what is and is not permissible, and I expect further work on that in the coming weeks.
Secondly, as I've mentioned in this Siambr before, I've asked Medr to conduct an overview of subject demand and provision to understand the risks in the future of any subject areas in Wales. This will enable us to consider where and if action might be necessary from either Government or from Medr to support or incentivise universities, which are rightly autonomous, on matters of course provision and content to continue to deliver vital provision in Wales.
Thirdly, there is a particular provision where Government has a more direct interest in maintaining vital provision, including initial teacher education, health and in high and expensive cost provision currently partly supported by Medr, such as science, technology, engineering and mathematics and conservatoire subjects. I intend to undertake an overview of the funding needs of this provision and ensure that it is sustainable.
Fourthly, part-time provision has been a significant success for us here in Wales, with significant increases in the numbers of part-time higher education students since 2018. We want to ensure that this remains sustainable, so following calls from the Open University, we are exploring the feasibility and affordability of increasing the part-time fee loan to reflect growing costs of delivery, while also ensuring that part-time study remains an excellent and accessible way into higher education for thousands of people across Wales.
Fifthly, increasing overall post-16 education participation in Wales should result in improving application and entry rates into higher education. This is a longer term challenge, particularly with evidence suggesting increasing entry to post-16 education below level 3 in recent years. That is why it is vital that we do not waver from our priority aim of improving attendance and attainment in schools and colleges, both pre and post 16, to ensure that we have that next generation of students who see higher education as part of their aspirations.
Finally, Dirprwy Lywydd, I want to return to the publication earlier today of Medr's strategic plan, and this sets out the key strategic goals for Medr as it establishes itself as an effective and respected regulatory and funding body. In doing so, it sets out how Medr will work towards the ambitions we set for it in the tertiary education and research Act. In the coming months and years, Medr will be undertaking a wide-ranging programme of work to achieve these goals, but I believe that there are particular commitments it sets out in its plan that are relevant to the topics raised in today's debate.
Medr will be introducing the new system of regulation for tertiary education providers in Wales, ensuring improved oversight of institutional quality, governance and finances. Medr will be improving our evidence base for overseeing the tertiary education sector and ensuring that we have the necessary data to enable planning, collaboration and coherence across tertiary education. Medr will be consulting on its funding systems and processes, and ensuring we maximise value for the significant sums of public investment in our universities and colleges. Medr will be driving forward increasing equality of opportunity in higher and further education, through improved oversight and regulation of activities to widen access. And Medr will be making the interests of learners and students central to its work, and create a learner voice forum to inform its policies and its decisions. And all of this work will be undertaken through the expectation of both Medr and Welsh Government for our tertiary institutions to work in social partnership with trade unions. That is absolutely crucial.
So, I'd like to express my agreement with the chair and chief executive of Medr, in the foreword to their plan: it is time to do things differently in our tertiary education sector. I therefore call on the leaders in our tertiary education sector, across universities, colleges and schools, to get behind Medr's ambitions, as set out in its strategic plan, and realise our collective vision for, to quote again from the foreword:
'A more joined-up and inclusive sector, with clearer and more flexible pathways for learners. A more collaborative sector, with providers encouraged to focus on their strengths and deliver the highest quality learning and research'.
And a tertiary sector
'that meets the needs of our society and economy, with higher rates of participation and fewer people not in education, employment or training.'
Diolch.
Fe gyfeirioch chi hefyd, Jenny, at gwmnïau allgynhyrchu a chwmnïau newydd, ac rwy'n cytuno'n llwyr â'ch sylwadau ac mewn gwirionedd, roedd yn bwnc a gododd yn ein bord gron gyda'r is-gangellorion a fynychwyd gennyf i a'r Prif Weinidog. Mae'n amlwg fod arferion da iawn eisoes ymhlith nifer o'n prifysgolion yma yng Nghymru, ond mae hynny'n rhywbeth y mae angen inni geisio gwneud cymaint ag y gallwn ohono, gan ein bod yn gwybod bod ein prifysgolion yn allweddol i economïau rhanbarthol ledled Cymru.
Ddirprwy Lywydd, wrth edrych tua'r dyfodol felly, rwyf am nodi'r camau y gallwn ac y byddwn yn eu cymryd wrth symud ymlaen i gyflawni ein huchelgeisiau ar gyfer diwygio addysg drydyddol ymhellach, a sicrhau bod y sector yn addasu mewn ffordd sy'n gynaliadwy ac yn diwallu anghenion Cymru. Yn gyntaf, fel y soniwyd eisoes, cynlluniwyd Deddf Addysg Drydyddol ac Ymchwil (Cymru) 2022 a sefydlu Medr gyda'r nod o sicrhau mwy o gydweithio a chydlyniant rhwng darparwyr addysg drydyddol. Mae'r heriau presennol sy'n wynebu ein prifysgolion yn dangos i ni nad opsiwn yw cydweithio o'r fath mwyach, ond anghenraid.
Bydd cydweithio rhwng sefydliadau yn gwneud y dewisiadau strategol anodd y gallent fod yn eu hwynebu yn llai niweidiol a phoenus i sefydliadau, staff a myfyrwyr, ac ni allwn ganiatáu i'r risg ganfyddedig o dorri cyfraith cystadleuaeth fod yn rhwystr i hynny. Felly, mae Medr wedi bod yn gofyn am gyngor ar y mater ac wedi cael cyfarfod gyda'r Awdurdod Cystadleuaeth a Marchnadoedd i helpu i egluro i brifysgolion beth sydd, a beth nad yw'n cael ei ganiatáu, ac rwy'n disgwyl gwaith pellach ar hynny yn ystod yr wythnosau nesaf.
Yn ail, fel y soniais yn y Siambr hon o'r blaen, rwyf wedi gofyn i Medr gynnal trosolwg o'r galw am bynciau a'r ddarpariaeth o bynciau er mwyn deall y risgiau yn y dyfodol mewn unrhyw feysydd pwnc yng Nghymru. Bydd hyn yn ein galluogi i ystyried ble mae angen ac a oes angen gweithredu gan y naill Lywodraeth neu'r llall neu gan Medr i gefnogi neu gymell prifysgolion, sy'n gwbl ymreolaethol, ar faterion yn ymwneud â darpariaeth a chynnwys pynciau i barhau i gynnig darpariaeth hanfodol yng Nghymru.
Yn drydydd, ceir darpariaeth benodol lle mae gan y Llywodraeth ddiddordeb mwy uniongyrchol mewn cynnal darpariaeth hanfodol, gan gynnwys addysg gychwynnol athrawon, iechyd a darpariaeth cost uchel a drud a gefnogir yn rhannol ar hyn o bryd gan Medr, megis gwyddoniaeth, technoleg, peirianneg a mathemateg a phynciau conservatoire. Rwy'n bwriadu cynnal trosolwg o anghenion ariannu'r ddarpariaeth hon a sicrhau ei bod yn gynaliadwy.
Yn bedwerydd, mae darpariaeth ran-amser wedi bod yn llwyddiant mawr i ni yma yng Nghymru, gyda chynnydd sylweddol yn nifer y myfyrwyr addysg uwch rhan-amser ers 2018. Rydym am sicrhau bod hyn yn parhau i fod yn gynaliadwy, felly yn dilyn galwadau gan y Brifysgol Agored, rydym yn archwilio dichonoldeb a fforddiadwyedd cynyddu'r benthyciad ffioedd rhan-amser i adlewyrchu costau darparu cynyddol, gan sicrhau ar yr un pryd fod astudio rhan-amser yn parhau i fod yn ffordd ragorol a hygyrch i mewn i addysg uwch i filoedd o bobl ledled Cymru.
Yn bumed, dylai cynyddu cyfranogiad addysg ôl-16 yng Nghymru yn gyffredinol arwain at wella cyfraddau ymgeisio a mynediad at addysg uwch. Mae hon yn her fwy hirdymor, yn enwedig gyda thystiolaeth yn awgrymu bod mwy o fynediad at addysg ôl-16 islaw lefel 3 yn ystod y blynyddoedd diwethaf. Dyna pam ei bod yn hanfodol nad ydym yn gwyro oddi wrth ein nod blaenoriaethol o wella presenoldeb a chyrhaeddiad mewn ysgolion a cholegau cyn ac ar ôl 16 oed er mwyn sicrhau bod gennym y genhedlaeth nesaf o fyfyrwyr sy'n gweld addysg uwch yn rhan o'u dyheadau.
Yn olaf, Ddirprwy Lywydd, rwyf am ddychwelyd at y cyhoeddiad yn gynharach heddiw ynghylch cynllun strategol Medr, ac mae hwn yn nodi'r nodau strategol allweddol ar gyfer Medr wrth iddo ymwreiddio'n gorff rheoleiddio ac ariannu effeithiol ac uchel ei barch. Wrth wneud hynny, mae'n nodi sut y bydd Medr yn gweithio tuag at yr uchelgeisiau a bennwyd gennym ar ei gyfer yn y Ddeddf addysg drydyddol ac ymchwil. Yn ystod y misoedd a'r blynyddoedd nesaf, bydd Medr yn cyflawni rhaglen waith eang i gyflawni'r nodau hyn, ond rwy'n credu bod ymrwymiadau penodol a nodir ganddo yn ei gynllun sy'n berthnasol i'r pynciau a godwyd yn y ddadl heddiw.
Bydd Medr yn cyflwyno'r system reoleiddio newydd ar gyfer darparwyr addysg drydyddol yng Nghymru, gan sicrhau gwell goruchwyliaeth ar ansawdd sefydliadol, llywodraethiant a chyllid. Bydd Medr yn gwella ein sylfaen dystiolaeth ar gyfer goruchwylio'r sector addysg drydyddol a sicrhau bod gennym y data angenrheidiol i alluogi cynllunio, cydweithredu a chydlyniant ar draws addysg drydyddol. Bydd Medr yn ymgynghori ar ei systemau a'i brosesau cyllido, ac yn sicrhau ein bod yn sicrhau'r gwerth mwyaf posibl am y symiau sylweddol o fuddsoddiad cyhoeddus yn ein prifysgolion a'n colegau. Bydd Medr yn gyrru cyfle cyfartal cynyddol mewn addysg uwch ac addysg bellach, trwy oruchwyliaeth well a rheoleiddio gweithgareddau i ehangu mynediad. A bydd Medr yn gwneud buddiannau dysgwyr a myfyrwyr yn ganolog i'w waith, ac yn creu fforwm llais dysgwyr i lywio ei bolisïau a'i benderfyniadau. A bydd yr holl waith hwn yn cael ei gyflawni gyda disgwyliad Llywodraeth Cymru a Medr y bydd ein sefydliadau trydyddol yn gweithio mewn partneriaeth gymdeithasol gydag undebau llafur. Mae hynny'n gwbl allweddol.
Felly, hoffwn fynegi fy nghytundeb â chadeirydd a phrif weithredwr Medr, yn rhagair eu cynllun: mae'n bryd gwneud pethau'n wahanol yn ein sector addysg drydyddol. Felly, galwaf ar yr arweinwyr yn ein sector addysg drydyddol, ar draws prifysgolion, colegau ac ysgolion, i gefnogi uchelgeisiau Medr, fel y'u nodir yn ei gynllun strategol, a gwireddu ein gweledigaeth gyfunol, os caf ddyfynnu eto o'r rhagair:
'Sector mwy cydgysylltiedig a chynhwysol, gyda llwybrau mwy eglur a mwy hyblyg i ddysgwyr. Sector mwy cydweithredol, gyda darparwyr yn cael eu hannog i ganolbwyntio ar eu cryfderau a darparu dysgu ac ymchwil o’r ansawdd gorau'.
A sector trydyddol
'sy’n diwallu anghenion ein cymdeithas a’n heconomi, gyda chyfraddau cyfranogi uwch a llai o bobl nad ydynt mewn addysg, cyflogaeth na hyfforddiant.'
Diolch.
Diolch i'r Gweinidog, a diolch, bawb. Daw hynny â busnes heddiw i ben.
Thank you, Minister, and thank you, all. That brings today's proceedings to a close.
Daeth y cyfarfod i ben am 18:27.
The meeting ended at 18:27.