National Assembly for Wales

Prynhawn da. As we start our Senedd this afternoon, I’d like to inform Members that, last week, we heard of the death of Alison Halford, the former Assembly Member, Senedd Member, who represented the Delyn constituency in the first Assembly, between 1999 and 2003. I’m sure that our thoughts are with her friends and family at this time.

Next we have questions to the First Minister. The first question is from Andrew R.T. Davies. 

The Minister for Further and Higher Education and I met with university leaders yesterday, and the Minister has set out the action we are taking in a written statement. The Welsh Government has provided £28.5 million in additional grant funding during the current financial year, and twice increased the tuition fee cap.

Thank you for that update, First Minister. When I put a topical question to the Minister for higher education just before the half term recess, I highlighted to her the blocks that have been put on universities discussing potential mergers of courses, so that those courses could be provided in a certain geographical area, by the Competition and Markets Authority. The Minister highlighted that this was an important issue. I have to say I was surprised that the Welsh Government hadn’t been more up on this issue, helping the universities to overcome the barriers, so that support could be offered to make sure that courses could have been provided. Representing South Wales Central, having three universities, this is a particularly acute problem, and in particular when it comes to nursing and other key courses that some universities have announced the closure of. So, can you update us today, please, on what role the Welsh Government have played to make sure that there is clarity on the guidance that the markets authority has issued, because, as the Minister’s response to that topical question highlighted, there are different interpretations across the United Kingdom of the rules that the Competition and Markets Authority exercises when it comes to universities?

Thanks very much. I think this is an issue that has been highlighted as a result of the announcement that came from Cardiff University and why they couldn't discuss more broadly prior to the announcement. And part of the answer to that was that the Competition and Markets Authority might have restricted their ability to do that. We are looking at whether that is an overinterpretation of what the Competition and Markets Authority is saying, and we are certainly interested as a Government to make sure that we do more all-Wales, pan-Wales planning, where people can co-ordinate and work together for the benefit of the nation. But we do have to, obviously, make sure that we comply with the Competition and Markets Authority rules, without gold-plating, and that is something I know that the higher education Minister is undertaking.

Digitisation of medical records will deliver greater standardisation of clinical pathways and improved productivity, and support clinicians and professionals in decision making. The Welsh Government is developing a national business case for the next generation electronic health record system in Wales, in partnership with NHS Wales.

The digital divide between the NHS in Wales and England is growing ever bigger, First Minister. The vast majority of patient records in Wales are still physical, a bit like the 1970s. I’m aware that the Welsh Government have announced the digitisation of maternity patient records by 2026, and the chair of Betsi Cadwaladr informed me of their plans to digitise mental health records. This is still way behind where we should be. In England, patients will have the ability to view their full patient records through the NHS app, and digitisation of records is vital to improve service, cut costs and overcome the problem of missing medical records. In 2020, a report by the public services ombudsman found that a shocking 70 per cent of NHS complaints he looked into could not be properly investigated due to lost documents. This report came out five years ago, and we still have not seen sufficient progress made on this. The roll-out of records needs to be prioritised in order to bring our health service up to the twenty-first century. So, can the First Minister provide an update on the Welsh Government’s plans to digitise patient records and begin closing that giant digital rift between the health services in England and Wales?

Thanks very much. What we do know is that implementing an electronic health records system is very complex and very expensive. But there is a huge amount of work being undertaken, including that pathfinder project that is happening in Betsi Cadwaladr specifically on mental health, due to those unique local pressures. But what I will tell you is that, today, we'll be voting on £600 million of additional funding to go into health, with a significant amount of that money going into digital technology, and you intend to vote against.

As Gareth Davies said, digitising the health service is essential, and I've heard you say something similar several times previously. But it's fair to say that Digital Health and Care Wales has faced its share of problems across the years, from governance issues to cyber risk issues. Now, this is important, and a recent article in The Guardian mentioned significant problems in securing access to patient records, and, on occasions, that that had even led to patient deaths. This is supported by coroners throughout Wales and England—last year alone, they issued 36 alerts about the lack of information sharing, the lack of communication between different computer systems, which has led to patient deaths. What action is the Government taking to ensure that problems within Digital Health and Care Wales are resolved in order to digitise our health and care system? Thank you.

Thank you. You're quite right—we are highly aware that the coroner has said on a number of occasions that the systems do need to communicate with each other, and that's why we've seen what's happened at Betsi Cadwaladr, because they did have problems in that area, particularly in the area of mental health, and we have started in Betsi Cadwaladr because of the problems that the coroner had outlined to us there. But, once again, I do think it's fair to say that we need a lot of money to do this, and, in order to get that money, we must have a vote—there's a lot of money on the table today—and you too will be voting against that.

Questions now from the party leaders. The leader of the Conservatives, Darren Millar.

Diolch, Llywydd. Can I first of all, First Minister, welcome the Welsh Government statement that you issued earlier on today regarding Ukraine? Like you, these Welsh Conservatives stand full square behind Ukraine in the face of the illegal invasion by Russia of its sovereign territory, and that will not waver.

First Minister, yesterday I visited Nigel, a farmer in Monmouthshire. With nothing but determination, he started with a rented plot, worked every hour that God sent and built a farm of his own. His wife, children and, later, his grandchildren joined in these endeavours, securing a future for the next generation—or so they thought. Because just as Nigel, who's now in his 80s, allowed himself to dream of stepping back and hanging up his wellies, and watching with quiet pride as his family carried out his life's work, and continued it, to feed this country, that dream was shattered by the UK Government's hammer-blow decision to tax more family farms by making changes to inheritance tax. So, First Minister, can I ask you: what do you have to say to Nigel, and thousands like him across Wales, who now see their children and grandchildren robbed of a future in the farming industry that they love?

Thanks very much. Well, as you're aware, inheritance tax is a reserved tax, which is overseen by the UK Government. They've taken some very tough decisions as a part of their budget as a result of the legacy left to us by 14 years of Tory Government. Now, what I can tell you is that the Deputy First Minister has had very constructive conversations with the farmers unions, has made sure that the farmers unions of Wales have been able to make representations directly to the Treasury, and I know that he's very keen to make sure that he follows up on those conversations.

First Minister, you were all very quick when there was a UK Conservative Government to leap up and scream about things that were non-devolved matters, yet, on this issue, you've been absolutely silent. It's high time, I think, that your Welsh Labour Government stood up for our Welsh farmers, rather than standing up for the UK Labour Government that is seeking to milk them dry. Now, on this side of the Chamber, we’re absolutely clear: no farmers, no food, no future. A few months ago, when you were asked about changes to inheritance tax on farms, you suggested that it’s only very wealthy people that would have to pay, but both you and I know that that is absolutely not the case. Farmers have had to borrow, beg and invest—often lending—significant sums, millions of pounds, to keep their businesses running. And that’s not because they want to; they have no choice if they’re going to survive. And they’ve done so whilst being absolutely clobbered by your Welsh Government’s Wales-wide nitrate vulnerable zones, your botched sustainable farming scheme, and a failure to get to grips with the challenge and scourge of bovine TB in our countryside. And now, to add insult to injury, Rachel Reeves stands ready with her calculator to fleece them once again, in spite of a pre-election promise not to change agricultural property relief. First Minister, will you now apologise to Welsh farmers for that broken promise, and what action are you going to take to fix this problem?

First of all, I want to recognise the valuable contribution that agriculture makes to the economy of Wales and to the communities in particular in those rural areas. We have made it clear that they’re Treasury figures. It is an attempt, I think, by the UK Government—it’s up to them to defend their own policy, but they were trying to make sure that those rich investors who were abusing the system actually were not able to take advantage of the tax loopholes that existed in relation to that. Now, I am very aware that we needed to make sure, as a Government, that any changes in relation to inheritance tax and agricultural relief did not impact on the future of sustainable farming in Wales, and I’m very pleased that we got those assurances from the UK Government.

First Minister, I didn’t hear an apology for the broken promise. I don’t think you gave us any clarity on your Welsh Government’s position. And no matter what you try to say in order to spin this issue, the truth is this: these changes are going to cost lives and livelihoods in rural Wales. Just yesterday, I was informed of a tragic case of a farmer who was diagnosed with terminal cancer just shortly after the budget last October. He was so concerned about the implications of the inheritance tax changes for him and his farm that he decided to decline all treatment because he wanted to ensure that he died before the changes are implemented in April. That is an absolute tragedy. He passed away just days ago. Do not underestimate the distress that many farmers in Wales are in as a result of this particular policy. It’s no wonder that some of your own party members in Westminster, your own Welsh Labour MPs, are distancing themselves from this policy and opposing it. At least they’ve got some guts. Now, for the sake of clarity, I want to ask you a straightforward question: can you tell us, do you and your Welsh Government support the inheritance tax changes for Welsh family farms—yes or no?

This is a matter that is reserved to the United Kingdom Government. What I can tell you is I recognise that this is causing anxiety in the agricultural community, and that’s why we will continue putting significant support into supporting people with their mental health and well-being. We’ve also put substantial money into Farming Connect to make sure that people can look to how they can pass things on to the next generation. But what I can tell you is, in the budget that we’ll be voting on today, there will be £350 million for agricultural support, and you will be voting against it. Don’t come to me and say that you’re speaking up for the agricultural community, because, if it doesn’t go through today, you will have to account to them, because that money will be cut.

The leader of Plaid Cymru, Rhun ap Iorwerth.

Thank you, Llywydd. I welcome the progress report in relation to Betsi Cadwaladr health board, whilst bearing in mind, of course, that the context is that it's been almost 10 years since the board was placed in special measures. Since then, four Labour health Ministers have tried and failed to ensure that the board can operate without Government intervention. No other health board in Britain has been under such supervision for so long. But when the board was failing back in 2023, the First Minister, who was health Minister at the time, said that it wasn't her responsibility to get a firm grip on things, pointing the finger at the heads of the health board. She scraped the board itself. So, two years later, and with things still, unfortunately, moving in the wrong direction in many areas—and in the words of today's report, 

'there are areas of continuing fragility'—

does the First Minister accept responsibility now, or is she continuing to point the finger at others? 

Well, he clearly doesn’t understand how the structure of the NHS works in Wales. We set out the strategic direction of travel, we give the money, and it is up to the health boards to determine how that should be spent, in accordance with the health priority needs in their areas. And I don’t think it’s fair to say that things haven’t improved in Betsi.

Let me just give you some examples: if you look at local primary mental health support services, they were in a difficult situation. But by today, 88 per cent of people are being seen within the 28-day target. That is a huge and significant difference, compared to where we were before. Over the last 12 months, there’s been a 21 per cent reduction in two-year trauma and orthopaedics, and that is before we bring on the new orthopaedic centre based in Llandudno. The number of pathways of care delayed discharges decreased by almost 10 per cent, when compared to the same month last year.

So, it’s not fair to say that things aren’t improving in Betsi; they are improving. We never said it was going to be done overnight. And it is absolutely right, and I stand by the fact, that the health board, the non-executive members, were dismissed, because, actually, we are seeing a change in the system now. 

It’s disappointing to hear the First Minister take the attitude that, 'It's nothing to do with me.' Yes, of course, there are examples of progress, though progress is slow. And that progress we can see around governance, for example, that is to be welcomed. But today’s progress report is also very clear that operational performance—I’m quoting here—is

'an area of challenge for the health board',

and,

'more focus and action is needed to deliver timely access to care for people across north Wales.'

Waits of over 52 weeks are up by over 2,000; 2,000 more hours have been lost because of delays in ambulance handovers; and fewer accident and emergency patients are seen within the target time. What patients want to see are those operational improvements—steady, sustainable improvements. Special measures should be a backstop, an emergency backstop, rather than the norm. And we want a health service, frankly, don’t we, that performs normally.

The First Minister knows that Plaid Cymru have published our plans. But given a decade of intervention, given those continued and, in some cases, worsening elements of performance, when does the First Minister believe that that normally performing health service will emerge in the north of Wales?

Well, I just think it's nonsense to say, 'Nothing to do with us'; we've never said that. But what I can tell you is that operational work is up to the health board itself, and our role is to make sure that we appoint people to the board. I'm very pleased that we've got a very good chair in Betsi Cadwaladr health board and an excellent board to support him. What we have seen are significant improvements when it comes to governance. Of course, we’ve got a long way to go when it comes to operational improvements, but, as I quoted to you, there are improvements when it comes to operational work as well. And you talk about Plaid Cymru’s plans: there was nothing original in your plans. We were doing all of those things already.

Says the First Minister, who spent a whole summer talking to people throughout Wales and hearing back that health is a priority. I think that’s pretty obvious too.

I’d like to turn, if I can, to global events to finish. At the United Nations, in September, Keir Starmer promised that the UK would be a leading contributor to development. But, five months on, he slashes international aid to its lowest level this century, and remember we’re talking about budgets that keep people, that keep children, alive, in many cases. We live in an interconnected and interdependent world, and for us in Plaid Cymru, protecting the international aid budget is something that appeals to both the head and the heart. It’s the right thing to do, as one of the wealthiest nations on earth. Whilst working to eradicate poverty at home, of course, we should help others too. But strategically, as the principled Labour MP, Anneliese Dodds, set out when resigning as international development Minister last week:

'The cut will also likely lead to a UK pull-out from numerous...nations at a time when Russia has been aggressively increasing its global presence.'

Cutting international influence will be costly. Now whilst the First Minister, I'm sure, will agree with me that the debate around increased defence spending has taken on a new significance in light of the new global context, does she also agree with me that that shouldn't be at the expense of international aid, and that the international aid budget cut announced by Keir Starmer should be reversed?

Well, thanks very much. I think the Prime Minister made it very clear that he thought, as I think we would all agree, that it was an incredibly difficult decision for him to cut that overseas development budget, but the first duty of a Government is to keep people safe, and the fact is that the world has just changed very significantly. And we have to recognise, I think, that we do need, as I made clear in the statement today, and we want to stand by and with the people of Ukraine, particularly now that the USA have suspended their support.

Europe has depended to a large extent for cover on defence from the US for a long time, and there's no assurance that that will continue. So, my question to you is: if you don't cut it from there, where would you cut, because you never give an answer to these things?

The Welsh Government's economic mission focuses on the green economy as one of our four priority areas, aiming to create a stronger economy through sustainable practices and investments that will drive our transition to a circular economy, whilst accelerating decarbonisation in Delyn and throughout Wales.

Thank you for your response, First Minister. 

Since first being elected, I've met with and worked to make the case for the potential of the port of Mostyn in my constituency. Mostyn is actually the birthplace of the UK's offshore renewable energy sector, leading the way in the construction of commercial windfarms and the sector continues to do so with the recent announcement giving the go-ahead to build a new berth to cater for the next generation of much larger floating offshore wind turbines. The construction phase will create 130 jobs, and 300 permanent ones will hopefully follow in the operational phase. 

The communities I serve have a proud industrial heritage, from coal to steel to iron. In fact, part of the port of Mostyn site sits on the old site of Mostyn ironworks, where my taid first worked before moving down the road to Point of Ayr colliery. So, we're proud of our past, but my constituency and the coast of north Wales has real potential to be at the forefront of future industry and the green industrial revolution, and to do so in a way that brings multiple benefits for the economy, local communities and for the country.

I understand that Jim O'Toole, the chief executive officer of the port of Mostyn, will be joining you at a round-table in Brussels tomorrow and will be setting out the port's development and the pivotal part it plays in my corner of the country. So, First Minister, will you, too, join us in recognising the potential of the port of Mostyn and north Wales? And, importantly, how is the Welsh Government committed to working with industry, education providers and trade union partners to ensure that this investment brings both decent jobs for the people of the area, but also that the workforce of the future are able to develop the skills that could unlock their potential too? Diolch. 

Well, diolch yn fawr iawn. This, of course, is very much in keeping with those four key priority areas, one of which, of course, was securing green jobs and growth, and the port of Mostyn is stepping up to our plans in relation to that. And I, of course, welcome the potential for 130 construction jobs, 300 permanent jobs, and that demonstrates commitment to the green economy here in Wales. And of course, that was partly because of the engagement work that happened between the port and Natural Resources Wales, which allowed them to access a marine works licence, which meant that the company can now build a 350m quay and reclaim 13 acres of operational land behind it. So, I very much welcome this announcement and very much look forward to meeting Jim tomorrow in Brussels.

The port of Mostyn and its tenacious managing director, Jim, who is known to many of us, are to be congratulated on their announcement of a new berth to cater for the next generation of larger floating offshore wind turbines and on their purchase of the adjoining former Warwick International site, as we've heard, creating opportunities for investment, growth and jobs.

Of course, energy security requires sustainable back-up for weather-based energy. The new HyNet carbon capture pipeline, critical to plans for the Parc Adfer energy-from-waste facility at Deeside industrial park, the cement works in Padeswood and the Connah's Quay low-carbon power station project, will run to nearby Talacre beach. The port of Mostyn has also led calls for a tidal lagoon stretching from Mostyn to Point of Ayr in Flintshire. Further, Pembroke Dock is hosting both floating offshore wind turbines and the green hydrogen facility, powered by renewable energy sources, for the transport and construction industries. What consideration have you therefore given to supporting Mostyn and surrounding areas as a hub for marine energy and engineering? And critically, how will you ensure involvement and benefit for local communities? 

Thanks very much. I am delighted to see that development, and I look forward to meeting this Jim—he sounds like an absolute legend, up there in the port of Mostyn—because part of what he's interested in doing is the fabrication and assembling of wind turbine structures and the supporting services, and that is something I know that you, Mark, also welcome.

You talked about the HyNet project, and of course that's a cross-border project, which is being worked along with the Deeside decarbonisation forum. I think these are really important developments and it has real potential for the development of hydrogen hubs across north Wales. We need to make sure that we take advantage of that, but also make sure we've got the skills to come behind it, and that people are working with our further education colleges and our universities to make sure we have people with the skills available to take advantage of these new opportunities.

Thank you, Llywydd. It's great that RWE are working with Rhyl college on wind turbine maintenance apprenticeship programmes, which will be much needed. It's a really good facility. Jim O'Toole from Mostyn has said that we also need marine skills for the transfer vessels, and there's a big shortage in that, and he's hoping that he could have a unit on the site, and he's willing to work with a local college to give students proper practical skills, because there's nothing like learning on the job there. First Minister, would you agree that colleges need a clear vision and guidance to effectively meet the needs of employers and individuals going forward?

Thanks very much. And of course that is the intention of the regional skills partnership boards. They should be making sure that they are listening to people like Jim O'Toole, coming back to the colleges, and making sure that that is being delivered. I think we've got a bit more work to do to tighten up the relationship between the needs of businesses and the provision of courses in Wales.

In 2023-24, there were 117 dental contracts operating across 83 locations in the Betsi Cadwaladr University Health Board area.

Well, First Minister, here we are, another week and another NHS dental contract handed back, in Denbigh this time—the seventh within just a few months, and this one at short notice. The agreement comes to an end on 1 April, which means that residents have less than a month to find alternative services, and those are added to the thousands of others who have been deprived of dental services under the NHS recently.

You'll be very aware that in a scathing recent statement, the British Dental Association accused your Government of 'spin', 'half-truths' and 'doublespeak' on dentistry, and they went on to say,

'Minsters claim investment and patient numbers are breaking records. The reality is that investment in dentistry has stalled, and numbers of patients seen in a year remain depressed by 30% compared to 2019 figures.'

So, will you admit that the current situation is unacceptable and indeed quite shambolic? And what do you say to my constituents in Denbigh, in Rhos-on-Sea, in Colwyn Bay, in Valley, in Coedpoeth, in Buckley, in Llandudno, all of whom have lost their NHS dentists under your Government and are not able to access a dentist on the NHS? And all of those are across north Wales, and they've all given their contracts back in the last couple of months.

Well, I think it's worth recognising that 63,000 new patients have received a full course of treatment since 2022, as well as the fact that 15,000 urgent treatments have been made.

Now, we recognise that there is a gap, and it's very difficult to fill that gap in the short term, but I'm pleased to say that Betsi has succeeded in resetting last year £1.5 million in terms of contracts, and there is £5 million being contracted at present, and that will be invested, and I think it's also important that we do show where things are operating better.

We have examples in Amlwch, Connah's Quay, Dolgellau, Caernarfon, Colwyn Bay, where these are new practices that have been rewarded. And let's not forget that when they hand the contract back, that's not the end of it; we re-contract them, we resubmit those programmes, so you don't lose it altogether. And I think it is really important that there is an understanding that we are in that process—£5 million very, very soon about to be determined in Betsi Cadwaladr in relation to dentistry.

I'm grateful to Llyr Gruffydd for raising the question here, because he's absolutely right: far too many people in north Wales are unable to access the NHS dentists and NHS dental treatment that they need. And forgive me, First Minister, there seems to be a difference between what you're saying and the potential spin and positive rhetoric that you're attempting to share in this Chamber versus the reality of which residents in north Wales are experiencing week in and week out. They cannot access the NHS dentist that they need, they're not able to have the treatment that they're absolutely desperate to receive, and the BDA, the British Dental Association, as has already been quoted by Llyr Gruffydd, seemed to be correct when they stated that the Welsh Government are peddling half-truths.

So, what is the truth, First Minister? And is the truth that the first step to making change happen is to admit that there's a problem there in the first place? And how will you restore your relationship with the British Dental Association so my residents can access the dental treatment that they need?

Well, thanks very much. The truth, let me be clear, is what I told you, but I also recognised in my answer that we recognise that there's a gap that is difficult for us to bridge in the short term. We can't force dentists to work for the NHS, and that's the bottom line. They work independently; that is the way it is. And let me tell you, in relation to the contract, that we have given them last year a 6 per cent increase when it came to their contract, which is not a small amount of an increase, and also we are just about to go out to consult them on a contract that we've been working on for a very long time, and we are hoping that we will be able to move on with a new contract next year that will be acceptable to all parties.

We are supporting isolated communities in Wales in many ways, including work to improve transport connectivity, digital connectivity and access to education.

Thank you, First Minister. An isolated community, as we know, doesn’t necessarily mean you are cut off, but a bit further away from towns and other settlements—basically remote. Communities like that are all around my constituency, but recently I became aware of an issue where a post box, a simple post box, was allegedly defaced in a rural area. And what was the response to this? Well, it was just taken away without any notice—a vital amenity. Unfortunately, it’s an example of how rural communities feel isolated and disregarded, and if you couple that with the lack of public transport, connections, their roads, access to internet and all of those things we take for granted in more urbanised communities, you can see why they’re so frustrated. So, First Minister, can I ask what more can the Welsh Government do to ensure that isolated communities are given as much support as possible, but to also guarantee that they have access to the vital amenities and other resources so they feel connected and supported?

Thanks very much, Peter. I don’t think I'm responsible for post boxes, so I'd suggest you take that up with the appropriate body. But I will answer your broader question, which is in relation to isolated communities, because I do think it is something we have to take very seriously. That's one of the reasons, for example, that we have invested considerable amounts of money in terms of digital connectivity. So, with broadband connectivity, if you think about what we've done over a prolonged period of time, with the Superfast Cymru project, for example, we went from about 45 per cent of homes having broadband to 97 per cent. That's 733,000 people who were helped, and part of that was because the UK Tory Government wasn't doing their job. We had to actually step in. So, we do care about connectivity and those isolated communities, and we do recognise that, today, being connected is fundamental to those areas. But I do hope that you will transmit that to your constituents: that, actually, the Welsh Government stepped in where the Tories failed.

One of the reasons that people feel isolated in communities across south-east Wales and elsewhere, of course, is because of the impact of the Thatcherite deregulation of buses. Well, the Tories—[Interruption.] The Tories might not like it, but the reality is that communities are not isolated by accident or act of God, they're isolated because of the decisions taken by politicians, and supported by the Conservative Party in this Chamber today.

First Minister, can you tell me when you expect to see the bus Bill published by the Welsh Government so we can start to take control of our connectivity and control of our bus services, and also assure me that there is sufficient money in the budget this afternoon to ensure that we can continue supporting bus services to connect communities in Blaenau Gwent and elsewhere?

Thanks very much. I can assure you that the new bus Bill will be introduced imminently, and I do hope that Members in this Chamber, particularly those in rural areas, will actually support the Bill when it comes through, because this is about the Government being able to direct bus companies in a way that they haven't been able to since that deregulation that happened under Thatcher.

The Wales Federation of Young Farmers Clubs has received funding of £236,000 from the strategic voluntary youth work organisation grant as well as the Cymraeg 2050 Welsh language promotion grant in 2024-25. The Welsh language grant includes funding of £1,100 to both the Brecknock federation and Radnor federation.

Thank you, First Minister. Before I start, I'd just like to thank you for that and also to Erwood YFC and Penybont YFC for winning the pantomime competitions respectively over the last couple of weeks.

First Minister, with the removal of agricultural inheritance relief and business property relief threatening the future of family farms across my constituency, young farmers in Brecon and Radnor are left facing an uncertain future. These changes were announced on 30 October last year, the Welsh Conservatives here led a debate on inheritance tax on 27 November, and yet it took the Deputy First Minister until 28 January to write an e-mail to his Westminster colleagues, three months after the Welsh farming unions had raised their concerns about the changes. First Minister, does your Government truly grasp the devastating impact that this delay and inaction will have on our rural communities and our young farmers, and what urgent steps will this Government take now to protect our generational farms from the UK Labour Government's changes and to protect the future of young farmers in Brecon and Radnorshire? You'll probably mention money for schemes, but without our farmers and without those farms there, those schemes aren't worth the paper they're written on.

Thanks very much. I can reassure you that the Deputy First Minister raised this issue in meetings prior to that e-mail being sent, but I can also reassure you that there is a substantial amount of support through Farming Connect for people to go and work out how it is possible to work with the next generation of farmers. Of course, you might write off the sustainable farming scheme. Actually, it's fundamental to the future of farming in this country, and it is important, and I'm really pleased, that we have had those reassurances from the UK Government that that will be respected in relation to inheritance tax.

International languages can play a crucial part in education and present life-changing opportunities to our learners. Our Global Futures plan sets out a clear vision to support international languages in our schools, and we have extended this for a further year to demonstrate our commitment to supporting schools.

Thank you for that answer, First Minister. We have, however, seen a decline in the numbers studying modern foreign languages in schools in Wales. The most recent figures I have found show that GCSE entries of modern foreign languages in Wales have declined substantially. And at A-level, entries for modern foreign languages have halved since 2001. Several universities have closed their modern foreign languages departments due to declining student numbers. When school pupils choose their GCSE subjects, they only have three, or at most four, options after the mandatory subjects. I suggest to the First Minister that, if we want to halt this decline, we give pupils the choice of single science and double languages, and if the First Minister does not support that option, what is the Welsh Government going to do to increase the number of pupils studying modern foreign languages, because there's only one direction it is going in?

Thanks very much. I'm very aware of the decrease in the number of learners studying international languages in schools in Wales. I think it's got to be recognised that this is part of a very complex picture and it's an issue that's shared across the whole of the United Kingdom. It makes me particularly sad as somebody who studied international languages at university. But we are starting to see some positive indicators. Last year, for example, we saw a 27 per cent increase in learners choosing to study German at GCSE, alongside increases in entries for French, so we are at least heading in a better direction. And the other good news is that we're starting to see performance in these subjects being quite strong in comparison to many other subjects. I know that the modern foreign languages mentoring programme that works with 100 secondary schools across Wales to boost the take-up of languages at GCSE—since around 2015, around 20,000 learners have engaged with that project.

There is a great partnership, First Minister, running between Swansea University and local schools that sees university students go to a primary and secondary school to ignite young people's passion for languages. This initiative not only benefits the pupils but offers university students an opportunity to make practical use of the skills that they've been taught. It has been very well received and it's something that I would love to see rolled out in my region of South Wales East and the surrounding areas, including Cardiff. But I know that the ambition may not be achievable due to the drastic proposed cuts at Cardiff University, which include stopping teaching foreign language degrees. Equipping our young people with various languages, including Spanish, French and German brings real great benefits; it enhances cognitive abilities and cultural understanding and provides numerous practical and personal advantages as well. To that end, First Minister, are you proud of the fact that Cardiff could soon become the only UK capital city not offering foreign language degrees if the cost-saving measures go ahead? And what steps is the Welsh Government going to be taking to mitigate this, going forward? Thank you.

Thanks very much. I know that the introduction of international languages in primary schools, as part of the Curriculum for Wales—and you talked about primary schools—has happened since 2022, which means that more learners than ever are learning to speak a modern foreign language at a much earlier age. And this is something that happens automatically on the continent; it's something that's a bit strange for us in the United Kingdom, but I'm really pleased that our new curriculum leads us down that path.

But you're quite right, we do want to make sure that those opportunities that you talked about in Swansea are extended. That was, of course, a Welsh Government initiative; it was part of what we set out in our Global Futures strategic plan and that was to support modern foreign language learning in Wales. We are in discussions with Cardiff University, because they have been valuable Global Futures partners and we're discussing the implications of their proposals and their ongoing role in the Global Futures plan with them.

We want people to be able to afford to live in the communities that they grew up in and we’re investing a record £1.4 billion this term to support affordable housing. Our approach, we think, is balanced and innovative. For example, we've introduced powers so local authorities can respond to local circumstances and housing needs.

In terms of affordable housing, it's more the rented social sector that concerns me, because many of those who are living in temporary accommodation now, in hotels in Llandudno and other parts of the constituency, are those who need rented social. And homelessness is still a significant challenge across the whole of Wales. By November 2024, there were 11,466 homeless individuals in Wales living in temporary accommodation, with 422 individuals living in temporary accommodation in Gwynedd and a further 612 living in Conwy.

We've all read recently how some of this is now being—. You know, article 4 direction is causing property values to fall. Instead of pushing home owners in Gwynedd into negative equity and failing to address homelessness, you need to do more to empower—. Sorry, the ex-First Minister keeps looking at me—[Laughter.] There needs to be more done to be able to build much more affordable houses quickly. Under your failed planning system, however, you're just not delivering anywhere near the numbers you should be doing. So, what do you have to say to those people who you are allowing their home prices to drop now as a result of all of the regulatory burdens that you have brought in, but also the many homeless people we see trapped in temporary accommodation for not just months but years?

Well, thanks very much. This is a deliberate policy by our Government. We want local people to be able to afford to buy houses locally. You're shaking your head, but that's actually a very deliberate approach on our behalf. You talk about the need to invest in housing. My God are we investing in housing. We are investing vast sums in housing—£1.4 billion this Senedd term—and that includes a record £340 million in social housing grant for 2024-25. And do you know what you're going to do today? You're going to vote against additional money going into that. So, don't come asking us and telling us what to do when you will not even support the money that we're putting into trying to correct a problem that is absolutely essential and urgent and is a priority for the people of this country.

Thank you, First Minister.

The next item will be the business statement and announcement, and I call on the Trefnydd to make that statement—Jane Hutt.

Thank you very much, Llywydd. There are no changes to this week's business. Draft business for the next three weeks is set out in the business statement and announcement, which is available to Members electronically. 

Trefnydd, I'd be grateful if we could have a statement from the Welsh Government on air quality and the need for waste operators to comply with environmental regulations. It has recently been reported that the operator at the Withyhedge landfill site in my constituency has recorded two non-compliances just days after reopening earlier this year. Trefnydd, this is unacceptable, and the operator cannot be allowed to continue when there's a disregard for environmental regulations. Local residents have complained that they have smelled odours coming from the site, and, as you know, I support their valid calls for a public inquiry and for the place to be closed down. I believe that the Welsh Government could and should have done more before reaching this point, and it can certainly do something now. Therefore, I'd be grateful if we could have a statement from the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Secretary for Climate Change and Rural Affairs, or even from the First Minister, given the significant national press this site has attracted. It's vital that we hear from the Welsh Government on this issue as a matter of urgency.

Diolch yn fawr, Paul Davies. It is very regrettable to hear about the air quality issues in terms of the waste operation that you refer to, because, obviously, we've raised this, you've raised this on many occasions, and those concerns have been addressed. Of course, the regulator, Natural Resources Wales, is very aware and very engaged in monitoring that, as they have to, in terms of their regulator role in terms of environmental regulations. So, clearly, you've raised this again, and the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Secretary for Climate Change and Rural Affairs has heard that today on the record, and we will, obviously, look to a response from NRW in terms of those concerns that have been raised with you.

Trefnydd, I'd like to request a statement from the Deputy First Minister on the recent report by the National Infrastructure Commission for Wales on developing the ability to deal with flooding in Wales by 2050. Now, I know that the Government is currently considering this issue, but, on the twenty-third of this month, we came very, very close again to having serious flooding in the region that I represent.

The ongoing trauma that these communities face does mean that people simply can't sleep at night; they are so concerned now for months through the winter. I understand that the Deputy First Minister is fully aware of this, but the fact is there are so many people who need support from their doctors, they're on medication. It's not just about floodgates now. So, I do think that we truly need to have a debate on the floor of the Chamber as to what support is available and what support should be available for people who do have to live in fear in that way.

Diolch yn fawr, Heledd Fychan. Of course, as you say, the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Secretary for Climate Change and Rural Affairs is very aware of the concerns and of the issues, and, indeed, as you say, I think many of us have had constituents across Wales who have been through flooding events that have been very traumatic. Of course, the investment—the huge investment—we're making now in flood prevention and flood alleviation is making an impact, but, of course—. And I think it's really interesting and useful that the climate change committee is doing on this work as well, and this has been raised by the infrastructure commission. But this is something where I think our investment in flooding defence, alleviation and prevention has really been so extensive that it will, hopefully, provide that kind of comfort to residents affected, as, indeed, the works take place, and they will do with that investment. 

I recently visited Coleg Cambria in Deeside to learn about their active well-being programme, which promotes fitness, wellness and inclusion for both students and staff. It's an excellent initiative that offers a range of activities that all students and staff can participate in. They've started a 'new you, new start' pilot scheme, which has helped many disengaged students adopt healthier lifestyles, with their programme yielding excellent results. The benefits of a programme like this, which empowers young people to live healthier lives, are limitless, with a positive impact not just on their physical health, but their mental health too. With 20 per cent of children going to school obese or overweight by the age of five, and 62 per cent of adults in Wales over 16 being overweight or obese, the health impact of an active well-being programme by education providers across Wales could be huge, reducing the growing strain on the NHS. So, can I receive a statement from the Cabinet Secretary for Education on what the Welsh Government are doing to work with schools to promote health and fitness, and are they are looking to pre-existing schemes, such as Coleg Cambria's active well-being programme, as a model for other schools to follow? Thank you.

Thank you for raising this and also telling us about that new start active fitness and well-being programme that is being developed. I think this is something that the education Cabinet Secretary and, indeed, the Minister for Further and Higher Education will be very interested in, and, of course, it's very much part of our curriculum as well. Thank you for enabling us to hear about that particular initiative, which I think can be reflected across the rest of Wales in terms of other such schemes in our schools and in our colleges.

I'd like to request a Government debate, please, on the importance of library services. Libraries sustain our villages and towns. They are more than buildings. They are crucibles of our communities. They feed the imaginations of children and provide a space of comfort and warmth for the lonely. But, across Caerphilly borough, 10 libraries are at risk of closure. Now, there is surely more the Government could and should be doing to stop this from happening. There are statutory duties on councils to provide libraries and there is a duty on the Government to oversee that responsibility, but how can those powers be strong enough if so many libraries are at risk?

This Thursday will mark World Book Day. Now, that is a day when children celebrate their favourite stories and characters. If these libraries close, more than a building will shut for those children. It will close down windows onto other worlds. Now, I realise this is a council responsibility, but the Government surely has a duty here to oversee the right to library services. So can we have a debate, please, reaffirming the need to keep these cornerstones of our communities open?

Diolch yn fawr, Delyth Jewell. In fact, I know you've raised this before in terms of the consultation that is being carried out by a local authority, by Caerphilly County Borough Council, in terms of the ways in which they are trying to meet the needs of their local communities. And no-one would disagree with the importance of the role of libraries. I think you can see across Wales—. And really this goes back to the start of austerity, I have to say, over the last 14 years, when local authorities have been particularly hard pressed, and there have been some really important examples of how there have been community asset transfers, and community councils have taken over and shared the responsibility with local authorities for the provision of libraries, and indeed so have community groups and charities as well. I'm sure these will all be looked at in terms of the role and the contributions that libraries can make, taking account of the fact that there is a lot of evidence and experience across Wales about how the provision of libraries can be sustained. 

Good afternoon, Trefnydd. Could I request, please, two statements from the First Minister, firstly on the alarming cut to the UK overseas development assistance budget? Slashing aid to 0.3 per cent isn't just a financial decision; it has devastating human consequences. As Anneliese Dodds has warned, these cuts will take food and healthcare away from those in desperate need. Welsh charities, faith groups and communities have long played a vital role in international aid and have rightly condemned this historic £6 billion cut as an absolute dereliction of duty.

The second statement I would like is regarding the President of the United States. In the light of Trump's deeply offensive and provocative remarks, as well as the disgraceful decision to cut aid to Ukraine, I do appreciate and welcome the First Minister's statement this morning. Given the royal family's invitation to Trump, I'd be grateful if the First Minister and the Welsh Government could clarify your position, please, on any potential visit to Wales and commit to ensuring, firstly, that this doesn't happen, but most certainly to engaging with affected communities on any wisdom around a visit. Diolch yn fawr iawn.

Thank you very much, Jane Dodds, for your very important questions.

I think you will have heard earlier on this afternoon from the First Minister in response to the question about international aid, recognising that this was an incredibly difficult decision that was made by the UK Government, and, as the First Minister said, this was of course, in terms of the UK Government, which we respect and support, that the first duty of any Government is to keep people safe. And it's a very critical moment, isn't it, for UK and European security, and, indeed, an incredibly difficult decision that—. I think, again, the UK Government said very clearly it was not an announcement they were happy to make, and very proud of the record in overseas development and the importance of playing a key role, and a key humanitarian role, as we've discussed in this Chamber, in war-torn countries, in which of course we play our part as we can.

So, the world is changing around us, and it is important that we recognise how difficult that decision was, but of course it is also very important to look at the situation in terms of our very strong support for Ukraine and for those Ukrainians who are living with us in Wales. You commented on the statement from the First Minister on Ukraine, and I think it’s important, for those who haven’t perhaps been able to see it yet, that I just read from that:

'We, in Wales, have offered the hand of friendship to Ukraine and to Ukrainians who have lost their homes because of Russian aggression. We remain committed to helping Ukrainians who have been forced to leave their country.  

'Our solidarity with Ukraine and its people is unequivocal, and we must continue to stand by our friends in Ukraine in these difficult times.'

These are, I think, the issues and the concerns and the thoughts that we have with our Ukrainian people here, and, of course, in Ukraine as well, also recognising the courageous and brave roles of Mick Antoniw and, indeed, Alun Davies, in terms of the recent visit, and hearing from them as well, in terms of the circumstances, and recognising what this also means for our Ukrainian citizens here in Wales.

Trefnydd, care homes across Wales are being concerningly adversely affected, of course, by the national insurance hikes. Yesterday, I visited Regency care home in Torfaen, who are anticipating an increase in their bills of £100,000 just for national insurance alone. It’s deeply concerning. And they can weather the storm—they’re an established business—but there are others out there who can’t, especially the newer ones, the newer people setting up care homes across Wales. This will inevitably lead to fewer and fewer care homes, with all the extra bills that are seen, of course coupled with the national minimum wage rises and the real wage rises as well. The costs are almost unmanageable for care homes at the moment. And it feels like they’re often being left out. So, can I please request a statement on what assessment the Welsh Government is making of the changes to national insurance and other tax rises, on care homes specifically, as well as all the other pressures they have with recruitment and retention and so forth? Thank you.

Well, you have raised this issue before, Laura Anne Jones, in terms of the situation, of course, for care homes themselves, in the independent sector, and, indeed, as part of local authorities, for many care homes. And I hope you will, this afternoon, recognise that this is a key opportunity to support our budget, which, of course, is going to be putting more money not just into local authorities, but into social care as well. And I think we must take this very seriously in terms of the contribution that’s going to come forward as a result of this budget this afternoon, which, for my portfolio, I also see the uplift that’s going in terms of the third sector, the voluntary sector, which also, of course, very much plays its part in terms of social care and the provision of care.

Like Laura Anne Jones, I also want to ask for a statement from the Cabinet Secretary for finance on this issue of the increase in national insurance contributions, but my focus is on how the Government will support third sector organisations who are facing grave challenges as a result of this increase. I will give you one example. Antur Waunfawr provides a centre for adults with learning difficulties in our communities and in the workplace in Arfon. The antur is facing a challenging financial situation and needs to pay £71,684 in national insurance contributions. Similar organisations face similar challenges across Wales, with vulnerable people facing cuts to services as a result of that. So, a statement on this issue covering the impact of the increase, but, more importantly, what support can be provided to the third sector from this Government—.

And secondly, another issue: may I ask you to discuss with the Secretary for housing and local government the need for her to answer my recent letters to her, asking about the remedial work to homes in four communities in my area that were involved in the Arbed scheme? I did send a letter at the end of January. This was the latest in a long series of correspondence that goes back over eight years with the Government, trying to seek fairness for over 50 families who put their faith in this Welsh Government scheme. But despite a number of pledges, a number of reports and a number of surveys, the residents are still awaiting good news, and you can hear the frustration in my voice too about the lack of progress. Thank you.

Diolch yn fawr, Siân Gwenllian. As I've just said in response to a question from Laura Anne Jones, I'm very pleased with the uplift that I have received in my portfolio in terms of support for the third sector. Clearly, decisions were not made by this Government, but those pressures that are coming forward are something where we are looking to hear some update for those in the public sector. But, particularly, I think the uplift I've given to the infrastructure of Wales will help the third sector infrastructure for Wales, which includes our county voluntary councils, and will be beneficial to those in the third sector. You've mentioned one particular centre, and I would hope that they would get advice and support from their local voluntary council, which we're supporting, but also to recognise that there have been uplifts in the employment allowance for smaller employers in the third sector, and in terms of numbers of employees as well.

Clearly, I will raise—and you have raised it today and put on the record—expectations for response about the remedial work that needs to be carried out in terms of the response to the Arbed scheme in your constituency.

I call for a single statement on the COVID-19 Day of Reflection. Sunday 9 March is the day of reflection across the UK for the COVID-19 pandemic, marking five years since the pandemic began. However, despite the Welsh Government creating a COVID memorial woodland on the National Trust's Erddig estate in Wrexham, which recently opened, I'm advised that the Welsh Government refused to mark the day with an event—. Do you want me to stop?

Sorry. I heard it all.

—to mark the day with an event at the woodland. As the COVID-19 Bereaved Families for Justice Cymru state, it's bad enough that the COVID bereaved have been denied a Wales inquiry and are almost invisible in the UK one, but to then ignore the day is truly insulting to all those that died and their families. They added that the Welsh Government aren't having events at the other two COVID memorial woodlands they created either, but they have been told that someone from the Welsh Government will attend the private event for them in Caerphilly. Although the Welsh Government have issued a short announcement for the day, the families comment that stating that the day is for people to mark the day in Wales in ways that feel meaningful for them is incorrect. If the Welsh Government had consulted the bereaved, they would have told them that they wanted a formal commemorative event run by them. I call for a statement accordingly, in response to that concern, so expressed.

Thank you very much indeed, Mark Isherwood, for raising that today. I'm very pleased that you've raised this in the business statement because, this weekend, we in Wales, along with the rest of the UK, will mark five years, as you said, since the start of the COVID pandemic, which had such a major impact on all of our lives. Can I start responding to your question by saying that those bereaved must be uppermost in our minds, as the anniversary will be particularly difficult and poignant for them? You have referred to the fact that there's a day of reflection that's taking place on Sunday. The Ynys Hywel commemorative woodlands in Caerphilly are, as you said, welcoming visitors on Sunday to mark the COVID-19 Day of Reflection. I will be attending that event. The newly opened Hafod y Bwch commemorative woodlands, on the National Trust Erddig estate in Wrexham, are also welcoming visitors this Sunday. I think there will be other Ministers also engaging on that day.

Of course, there are other commemorative events taking place in Wales, which can be found on the COVID-19 Day of Reflection map—'Get involved', 'COVID Day of Reflection'—where individuals and organisations are able to post events they're planning, or to find public events to attend. And, on Sunday evening, the Welsh Government buildings in Cathays Park will be lit in yellow to mark the day. It is an important weekend, it’s an important day, it’s an important time. Clearly, this is something where we will reflect, I’m sure, across the Senedd, but also from the Welsh Government’s perspective, engaging fully in terms of recognition of the poignancy and of the particularly difficult time for those bereaved relatives.

Thank you, Trefnydd.

Item 3 is a statement by the Cabinet Secretary for Health and Social Care—update on Betsi Cadwaladr University Health Board. I call on the Cabinet Secretary, Jeremy Miles.

Thank you, Dirprwy Lywydd. Last week, we marked two years since the decision to place Betsi Cadwaladr University Health Board under special measures. Everyone is aware of the reasons for that decision. This was a direct response to concerns about governance, leadership and performance. We have scrutinised the issues and rehearsed them in this Chamber many times.

Today, I have published the second annual progress report. This looks at the progress made over the last two years since the board was upgraded to special measures status. Since I was appointed Cabinet Secretary for Health and Social Care, I have met with the chair of Betsi Cadwaladr University Health Board at least once a month. I have also met the chief executive, and the board members more widely, a number of times. I've seen their commitment and determination to improve health services for the people of north Wales in a way that is meaningful and sustainable.

I have visited all three main hospitals and many community healthcare settings across the region. I would like to acknowledge the hard work of staff across the health board, in the community and in the hospital. Staff members have an important and entirely integral part in the journey to improve the health board.

Dirprwy Lywydd, now is not the time to downgrade the status of Betsi Cadwaladr University Health Board from special measures. But let us also bear in mind the fact that a great deal of good work is happening across the north. I will, therefore, use this statement today to highlight that good work, as well as the areas that the health board needs to continue to focus on.

First, I would like to share some examples of the good work, and also mention some groundbreaking developments. The community audiology van: I had the privilege of visiting this earlier this year. This is the first arrangement of its kind in Wales, and the health board's adult audiology team has been named team of the year by the British Academy of Audiology. Ysbyty Gwynedd: this is the location of the health service's first robotic training centre in Wales. Here, they provide training in robot-assisted knee surgery. Abergele Hospital: surgeons at this hospital are trialling augmented reality technology for knee replacements. Plas Gororau in Wrexham: this is a purpose-built facility for a range of community health services. Provision includes phlebotomy appointments, a mental health out-patient department and a vaccination centre. The accident and emergency department at Ysbyty Gwynedd: for the second straight year, trainee doctors have said that this is the best place to train in Wales.

Dirprwy Lywydd, I understand the frustration that people feel when they are faced with long waiting times for appointments, care and treatment. It's not good enough. One of the reasons the health board was put into special measures was because of issues with performance. Unfortunately, Betsi Cadwaladr University Health Board has the highest proportion of long waits and is some way currently behind other health boards in reducing them, even with the extra funding we've provided. There is still a long way to go to ensure people have the timely access to care that we expect, especially for emergency care.

But there has been some notable progress over the last two years, including, the number of people waiting more than two years for orthopaedic treatment has fallen by almost two thirds, and the health board is using additional Welsh Government funding to halve the total number of people waiting more than two years for all specialties by the end of this month. If those plans are achieved, that will mean a reduction of over 5,600, compared to February 2023. There’s been a 10 per cent increase in local primary mental health assessments completed within 28 days for adults and a 33 per cent increase for under-18s. The health board has the highest number of consultations carried out under the pharmacist independent prescribing services in Wales, and, in the last year, the health board has agreed new NHS dental contracts worth more than £5 million. 

Dirprwy Lywydd, before the health board was placed in special measures, it struggled with ineffective leadership and governance. An Audit Wales report in 2023 referred to 'dysfunctional board dynamics' and called for immediate remedial action. The board now has a full complement of independent members, including a new chair and vice-chair, a permanent chief executive and an ongoing recruitment drive to fill the remaining executive director posts. Before the special measures were put in place, corporate governance systems lacked coherence. There were  significant challenges in compliance with the corporate governance code, and decision-making processes were hindered by inadequate information flow. By June 2023, all committee structures had been reinstated, supported by clear terms of reference and enhanced cross-membership between committees to improve oversight.

Dirprwy Lywydd, when I was appointed health Secretary, I was briefed about the findings of a series of Welsh Government independent reviews about Betsi Cadwaladr University Health Board. They exposed some serious, deep-rooted issues. The majority of the actions and recommendations from these reviews have been completed, and the health board has clear plans and timescales in place to complete the outstanding ones. The health board has strengthened its financial governance and financial control.

In 2023, the health board was dealing with serious legacy issues, including failures to act promptly in response to complaints, insufficient or ineffective strategic planning, the timeliness of health board investigations, and the continued reliance on paper patient records. A new integrated concerns policy for incidents, complaints and mortality reviews was approved in July last year. By October, the health board achieved—and has maintained—the target of closing 75 per cent of complaints within 30 days. The number of prevention of future deaths notices issued to the health board by His Majesty’s coroners has been of real concern. But it has improved its investigations process and is identifying and embedding learning from incidents. The health board received 10 such notices in 2024, compared to 22 in 2023. So far, this year, there has been one notice issued.

Inspections undertaken by Healthcare Inspectorate Wales have also highlighted improvements, including in a number of mental health settings. At the time of the escalation to special measures, two services had been classed as services requiring significant improvement by HIW. But in June last year, HIW was satisfied with the improvements made to vascular services and de-escalated the service. In August 2024, the emergency department at Ysbyty Glan Clwyd was also de-escalated, in recognition of improvements. 

In November 2024, the health board made the decision to temporarily pause direct provision of planned and emergency open abdominal aortic aneurysm vascular surgery in north Wales. Clinical arrangements have been put in place, as Members will know, for people to be treated at the Royal Stoke University Hospital. 

The leadership and management of mental health services has been strengthened over the last two years, and an expert advisory group has been established to review, check and challenge evidence of progress in relation to mental health. 

Dirprwy Lywydd, the organisation has come a long way over the last two years. The first year saw marked improvements in corporate governance and board leadership. The second year has seen a real focus on quality and safety, with the board responding to many legacy issues in an open and transparent manner. As we move into the third year of special measures, the focus will be on operational grip and control, agreeing and implementing a new operating model, improving performance and embedding the necessary foundations for the organisation to be successful in the long term.

We will continue to provide support and constructive challenge to Betsi Cadwaladr University Health Board to deliver on its core purpose, to provide excellent care to the people of north Wales and support their health and well-being. Diolch.

Thank you, Minister, for your statement. It was disappointing to have received it at such short notice in advance of your statement today. And I note that you were only referring to the last two years of the special measures regime, when we all know that this is a health board that has been struggling for almost 10 years now, having first gone into special measures back in June 2015. So, it is a little disappointing that we're still having these regular updates on failings at the Betsi Cadwaladr University Health Board almost 10 years on, and that there has been insufficient progress on the ground in terms of the services that people are receiving. I want to thank all of those NHS staff who are working hard in the system, trying to deliver the best quality care that they can, but the reality is, I'm afraid to say, that all too frequently, patients in my constituency and in other places across north Wales feel let down by this health board and the services that they have been receiving. 

You made reference to progress on two-year-plus waits; you didn't mention the three-year-plus waits that people are suffering in the Betsi Cadwaladr health board. Ninety one per cent of people who wait for more than three years for their treatment in Wales are in the Betsi Cadwaladr University Health Board area. That is a shameful statistic. And we know that people, typically, are still waiting more than two years, if they're referred today, for ophthalmology treatment, dermatology treatment, orthopaedic treatment, and we've got people waiting up to five years—young people, children waiting up to five years—for neurodivergence assessments. These are young people who need those assessments in order to get the proper support that they need in their education. It simply isn't good enough.

You talked about improvements in emergency departments having been de-escalated. The reality is that the performance of the emergency departments in our hospitals in north Wales is the worst in the whole of Wales. Just 45 per cent of people are in and out of the emergency departments, the main emergency departments in north Wales, within the four-hour target. And we have the worst performance against the 12-hour target as well. I'm afraid it smacks of complacency, your response, when one in four people are not being seen and discharged within that 12-hour target. It isn't good enough.

And we've had lots of promises of jam tomorrow. You promised us just now that more than half of the two-year waits will be eliminated by the end of March. Well, I look forward to seeing you at the end of March in order to compare those figures, because I find it difficult to believe that they will be achieved. We know also that you promised jam tomorrow a number of years back, when you said that you would invest in a brand-new hospital in the Rhyl area to take pressure off the hospital down the road in Bodelwyddan. Over 12 years ago now, that was a promise that was made to the people of north Wales by the then Secretary for health, Mark Drakeford, who went on to become First Minister, but still didn't deliver on those promises—always made, by the way, before an election and then never actually delivered. I suspect we'll get more of the same today, with more hopes being built up about the delivery of that project.

We were also told about a brand-new project in terms of a mental health unit. Back in 2018, we were told that the Ablett unit would be completely demolished or remodelled and we'd have a brand-new mental health unit for in-patients with 60 beds on the Glan Clwyd Hospital site. Where is it? We've seen absolutely nothing, completely nothing. So, you keep promising these things in order to improve services, not delivering, which then doesn't improve services, and, in fact, if you look at this whole 10-year period from when it first went into special measures in June 2015, the performance on almost every single measure is worse now than it was 10 years ago. It's worse now than it was 10 years ago, and this is in spite of so-called intervention by the Welsh Government. Well, I'm afraid your intervention is not working. It is not working. Things are getting no better in terms of patient experiences and they are what really, really matter.

What is also shameful is that we've had failing executives at the health board who have left their jobs without being dismissed. People find that absolutely galling that we've had these years of failure, but not one head has rolled as a result of those failures. People have been able to leave either with compromise agreements or on their own terms. It is frankly disgusting.

You made reference to governance and leadership and, of course, I want to work as closely as I can with the board, with the chair and with the executive team to deliver the improvements that we need to see, but we're not actually seeing them.

On prevention of future deaths reports, you seem complacent again. Eleven since the start of last year, that's the highest in Wales of any health board, and still disproportionately higher than the population of north Wales when compared to the populations of other health boards. I'm afraid this complacency isn't good enough. We need to see real change and I want to see a clear timetable from you as a Government, with a clear set of actions that you will take as a Government that we can measure you against, because what's been published to date by the health board and by the Welsh Government isn't giving us any confidence that things are going to get significantly better. 

I'm sorry if the Member felt he didn't have enough time to read the statement in advance. He might have made up for my deficiency by listening to the statement that I actually gave in the Chamber itself. 

I did listen. 

I don't think that the way he's characterised the statement is entirely fair. The statement is very clear, as the Government is, that there is a very, very long way to go, but it is important in taking the steps that the health board needs to take, in accordance with the escalation criteria that they're subject to, for there to be a candid reflection on where there is a long way to go and where there has been progress made to date, and that is what my statement set out. There is a long way to go.

I set out in my statement that the focus to date—and he has acknowledged this, and I'm grateful to him for that—has been in relation to establishing a better and more robust approach to corporate governance and board membership. The executive team that you referred to has been almost entirely transformed in the course of the last two years. There are a small number of posts that are still out for recruitment, but the majority of those posts have been recruited and there are people in place undertaking those responsibilities.

As I mentioned to him, the focus for the second year was on quality and safety, and the points that he makes in relation to performance, many of them I would recognise, as would the health board, and that is absolutely where the board itself is clear that focus needs to be in the year ahead. So, it is a progressive system, designed to put the health board on the resilient footing that we need it to be on to deliver the kind of services that we want to see for people right across north Wales. 

He mentioned long waits. Actually, the plan that the health board has provided to us, and that we have been funding and working closely with them on over a number of months, will show, if, as I hope, it is achieved by the end of this month, a very significant reduction in the number of two-year-plus waits, and that includes the longest waits of three years and above as well, to be clear about the point that he made in his statement. Clearly, people waiting for more than two years is not acceptable—we know that—but I think we also should recognise that if those plans are fulfilled, as we very much hope they will be, that will have demonstrated a really significant decrease. There will be a way to go, but I want to support the health board to continue on that trajectory, so that we can move even further away from the sorts of numbers that he was referring to. 

In relation to the points he was making on emergency waiting times, in particular, I think it is really important to acknowledge where there has been progress. He is right to say that those targets are not being met. They need to be met, clearly—they need to be met in all parts of Wales—but there has been progress in those areas. And actually, whether it's in the development of discharge in Ysbyty Glan Clwyd, the expansion of the emergency department in Wrexham Maelor Hospital, the new medical day unit at Glan Clwyd, there are developments that we know can provide a more robust basis for better emergency department performance in the future, which is obviously what we want to see.

He challenged me in relation to actions. The steps that we are taking and the expectation that we have of the health board are all matters in the public domain, as they absolutely should be, and that is the basis on which he's challenging me today. So, that is information that is already in the public domain. Escalation isn't a sanction, it is a mechanism that we have to provide the support that the health board needs.

For all the points that the Member made in his statement, I would remind him that actions speak louder than words, and in order to be able to continue to support the health board and the NHS, the funding that the budget that we are laying for debate today needs to be passed, and the public will watch when they see his party voting against that funding for the health service, voting against that increase that will partly go to Betsi Cadwaladr health board.

I thank the Cabinet Secretary for this update, and I do echo the praise paid to the workforce in the Betsi Cadwaladr area. Of course, the north Wales health board has been in special measures for over two thirds of its entire existence, which clearly underlines the extent to which the exceptional has been normalised under this Government.

Of course, the progress that has been mentioned today is to be welcomed. The Cabinet Secretary referred to the audiology van. I had the privilege of going with them and seeing them at work. And the cardiac service, which is a community service, is also to be welcomed. So, we need to see that good practice that has been developed being rolled out across Wales. 

So, I won't scrutinise the good things that have happened, but I will spend some time scrutinising some of the weaknesses that continue in the region. And it is no small matter that I note some of the weaknesses, because my loved ones are patients under the board’s care, and it's therefore in my interests to see the situation improve as soon as possible.

Back in October, your priorities for the subsequent six months were:

'improvement in 52-week waits at first outpatient stage month-on-month'—

and I quote—

'zero patients waiting over 156 weeks for treatment, zero 4-hour ambulance handovers and improved 4 and 12-hour emergency department waiting time performance.'

That's what you promised. But during the three months following that statement, treatment waits of over a year increased by over 2,300. The number of hours lost due to delays in ambulance transfers increased by almost 2,000, and a reduction was seen in the percentage of patients waiting in emergency care departments for less than the targets of four and 12 hours. And while a small reduction in waiting lists was seen at a national level during December, the total waiting-list numbers at Betsi increased, with Betsi now responsible for almost a quarter of the backlog across Wales.

Waits for young people have also increased further over the last 12 months, with Betsi Cadwaladr responsible for 57 per cent of all waits of more than two years among patients under the age of 18. So, against the milestones set by you, Cabinet Secretary, do you consider these data as evidence of progress? Why have October's objectives fallen so far short of the mark, and who is responsible for the failure to meet those targets? Of course, it's fair to think that the Government has set these targets based on projections or promises, so I wonder whether the Cabinet Secretary could set out what the targets were based on back in October.

The October report also mentioned the need to improve collaboration between the health board and services in the primary sector and the care sector, something that has been a familiar problem for Wales for many years. But despite this ambition, what I am hearing is that the health board is indebted financially to local authorities for the costs of joint care provision—debts that equate to hundreds of thousands of pounds. I asked a written question on this very subject some weeks ago, and I was disappointed that the Government had no information as to exactly what the health board's debt levels are to local authorities. Now that the Cabinet Secretary has had time to gather that information, I wonder whether he could update us on the exact amount of money owed to the local authorities by the health board. And is the Cabinet Secretary satisfied with this situation? 

The October report also mentioned the need for progress towards

'robust financial governance and a robust financial control environment',

but it's inevitable that these efforts, which have borne some fruit over the last year, in fairness, will be significantly undermined by the decision of the Westminster Labour Government to increase national insurance contributions, particularly as the allocation of Treasury refunds to core public services based on the Barnett system will leave Wales facing a loss compared to England.

The Cabinet Secretary for finance referred to the situation regarding national insurance as a fundamental injustice, and he's right, because many providers of health and care services will have to find money to fund this increase in tax. So, what assessment has the Government made of the additional costs to the health board resulting from the national insurance rises to come from April onwards? And if the reimbursements are based on Barnett, as expected, how much additional money will the health board need to set aside in order to make up for the shortfall?

And finally, you mentioned in your speech about vascular care. It's a shame that this service has been withdrawn from Ysbyty Gwynedd in the first place, but now a number of patients are expected to receive their treatment in Stoke. Is outsourcing the services to an English hospital the pinnacle of the ambition of this Government?

Well, I'm grateful to the Member for the welcome that he has given to the progress that has been made over the past two years, and in thanking the staff of the health board, which is to be welcomed. It's crucial that we recognise all of the work that is done by the workforce, and I know that the workforce and its representatives are viewing this debate today, so they will have appreciated the point made by the Member.

In terms of the targets, the targets set are part of a range of national targets that are expected of Betsi Cadwaladr University Health Board, like all other health boards. As I mentioned in my response to Darren Millar's questions about the work to reduce the numbers waiting longest for treatment, the health board has been working with us very closely over recent months to ensure that the longest waits are reduced, and if we see, as we will in a few weeks after the end of this month, what the performance is in March, and if the plans are being delivered, as I hope that they will, then that will have shown a very significant reduction in the numbers waiting for the longest times.

Nobody thinks that thousands of people waiting for two years and more is acceptable. The health board certainly doesn't think that, and we as a Government don't believe that. But it's also important that we support the health board in making the progress that we are seeing them make at the moment and for that to continue. At the end of the day, it's not a question of data or statistics; it's a matter of the lives of patients and their experience. So, we are all agreed that that progress needs to continue, and that the pace of the progress also continues. The health board would certainly agree with that.

In terms of the work related to emergency departments, I mentioned in my response to Darren Millar some of the work that's happened in that area. The Member mentioned services for young people. It's worth noting—and I didn't refer to this in my statement—in terms of mental health assessments for those under the age of 18, that 91 per cent of those are now being seen within the expected time of 28 days, which is a figure that we should welcome, I think.

He asked what the basis of these targets are. Well, these are national targets that apply to all health boards, and one of those is to ensure that we reduce the numbers of people waiting in hospitals for too long, so that when they're ready to go home, they get the support that they need. The health board has been working with the six councils that are part of the regional footprint to improve patient experience in that situation. We have seen progress across north Wales in terms of the numbers who are waiting too long in hospital and are medically ready to return home. There has been progress made in that regard, and good work has been done with care homes in order to ensure that fewer people have to go to hospital in the first instance, which is also important. So, I think that we need to do more of that. 

The Member mentioned the financial situation. Of course, there is pressure on every health board in terms of budgets. We need to look at new ways of working, and ensure that the increase in waiting lists doesn't go further, so that we can develop a balanced system. That's the aim; that's the aim in Betsi, as it is elsewhere in Wales. But in terms of the finance and the financial support required by the health board and the health service more generally, there's an opportunity this afternoon for the Member to support a budget that will increase that and will provide further support to the health board over the next year. So, the public will be looking at the Member's vote and Plaid Cymru's vote when it comes to the budget later on this afternoon.

Thank you very much, Cabinet Secretary, for this very important update. It is really good to see the progress being made by the health board, but as you say yourself, there's still a long way to go.

I'd just like to raise two areas. Firstly, the infant feeding support service, which has been based at the Maelor hospital for about four years, and this service has been transformational in improving the quality of service delivery, with an evaluation of service outcomes consistently showing overwhelming satisfaction from the women involved and, most importantly, improving breastfeeding rates overall. So, I'm just interested to know what the Welsh Government is doing to ensure that that important service continues with access for all.

Secondly, I've been contacted by some concerned constituents regarding future funding arrangements for a metastatic cancer nurse specialist post in Wrexham. It's a really important role, which was originally set up as part of Welsh Government support for transformation of our health services, and I'd be grateful again for an update on what discussions you and your officials have been having around this post. You and I have discussed in the Chamber before that transformation and innovation is so important for our health boards going forward. They can't just keep doing the same things differently, they really have to do different things.

I thank the Member for the two important points that she raises, and both those are good examples of innovation happening in Maelor hospital in her constituency. I was also there at the end of last year discussing with them the launch at that point of a new rapid chemotherapy service there, actually, which came into action at the end of September and that enables a specially trained nurse to deliver treatments for patients, with up to 10 patients a day being able to be seen in that way. So, it is absolutely important, as the Member rightly says, to find innovative ways to deliver services.

On the two specific points that she asked me about, on the breastfeeding support service in particular, that service started, as the Member mentioned, as a pilot at the Maelor in 2021—the first in Wales to introduce a baby-feeding team within the maternity unit. That service was then extended, actually, to Glan Clwyd in 2023. The health board absolutely does recognise the importance of being able to support families in that way and is currently looking at plans for these services within both hospitals and looking at long-term plans for the service across all of its sites as part of its broader commitment to support a healthy start to families across north Wales.

In relation to the metastatic cancer nurse specialist at the Maelor, it's one of a number of roles that are being funded using temporary funding, which we've provided as a Government, to support enhanced cancer performance. The board is considering the future of the role as part of its workforce planning more generally, and recognises, in the way that the Member has said today, the positive feedback that patients and patient groups have provided in relation to that service, and it would be taking that into account as it's planning how that can be integrated into its service more broadly.

I just endorse everybody else's thanks for bringing this statement, but the first sentence, with reference to marking the fact that it's two years since the decision to place the Betsi Cadwaladr University Health Board into special measures, seems to evade the issue that I've been here 14 years, and the health board has been in special measures for a large part of that—some 10 years. Also, I'm really concerned about where you mention the target of closing 75 per cent of complaints within 30 days. I've got to be honest—I'd like to challenge that, because I know, on many complaints that I raise, they do not get solved within that time frame. And if people are referred to Putting Things Right, it can take several months before they get a response. Quite often, those responses then don't have the information or the question responses that people are asking about treatment they or one of their loved ones have had. We still see ambulances stuck outside hospitals, losing nearly 2,000 extra hours due to handover delays. Things are improving in some of the areas. I won't dispute that I have seen some good work, and it's only right that we, as politicians, acknowledge that. But you've still got a long way to go, and really this health board should not and would not have been in special measures had we, the Welsh Conservatives, been running Wales in terms of the health service. Thank you.

Well, I thank the Member for the points that she has made in relation to the progress that the health board has shown. It is important, as the Member has done, to acknowledge where positive developments are happening. We need to have an honest reflection, don't we, on what's working well and where there is further to go. That is definitely the space, in my experience, in which the board and the senior executive team at the health board are—that sense of honest evaluation. I won't repeat the points I've made, which I think reflect a number of the questions that the Member has made in her contribution, just to say that she has the opportunity to show us what the Conservative Party intends to do in relation to the NHS by supporting the Government's budget today, which increases the budget to the NHS by many, many hundreds of millions.

Thank you, Dirprwy Lywydd. Of course, I welcome any signs of progress within the Betsi Cadwaladr health board and I'm very grateful for the briefing provided by the chair and chief executive for Members from north Wales a few weeks ago, but the truth of the matter is that for far too long deficiencies within the Betsi Cadwaladr health board have had a very detrimental impact on the people that I represent on Ynys Môn, and it remains a problem. We are still awaiting a new surgery in Holyhead and things are moving appallingly slowly. Waiting lists for vascular services, we know, and mental health services, diagnoses of neurodiversity for children and adults, are far too long, and dental appointments are becoming more and more difficult to access, no matter what we hear from the Welsh Government, and women's health services are not equal across north Wales. So, would the Cabinet Secretary agree with me that this dragging of feet is unacceptable and that it leads to a loss of hope among patients, and does he agree that there needs to be a clear timetable and very clear expectations as we move forward?

Well, I know that this is of specific importance to the Member in terms of his constituency, but there have been developments in Holyhead since the end of last year, as the Member knows, and those plans are being considered jointly with the council at present.

I mentioned in terms of young people's assessments that there has been significant progress in terms of the mental health assessments, specifically that 91 per cent of those are being seen within 28 days, which is a very significant figure in terms of progress, so we welcome that as well.

As the Member says, there is a lot of work to be done—a great deal of work—and the board certainly recognises that. As I mentioned in my statement, having looked at governance and quality and safety, performance is the focus for the period before us, and that is what we need to see, of course.

In terms of a timetable, I'm not going to provide a timetable on this. What I want to see is that the health board can emerge from special measures as soon as is appropriate. This system is not a sanction, but a way of providing support to the health board. We want to see that happen quickly. The health board wants to see that happening quickly. But the important thing is that this does happen in a purposeful way that is sustainable and that provides assurance to people in his constituency and across the region that the health board is on a sustainable footing and can provide the services that are needed. I'm not prepared to give a timetable for that. We'll be making the decisions when the situation is ready for that.

Thank you, Dirprwy Lywydd, and thank you for this afternoon's update.

We've heard in here that it's been some time since Betsi Cadwaladr University Health Board was first placed in special measures, and, whilst I recognise the positive steps set out in this two-year update, I would welcome any additional assurance you could give to my constituents on those areas where further progress is needed or noted—for example, on cancer performance and urgent care.

But, from the conversations and correspondence I have, more often than not, once people get into the system, their treatment experience is second to none, and that is very much down to the dedicated workforce, working, at times, under what we know is severe pressure. So, Cabinet Secretary, do you acknowledge that the progress that's been made possible at Betsi Cadwaladr University Health Board is in no small part due to the dedication of staff across all grades who work tirelessly to make sure patient care is done in a kind, caring and professional way, and that it is only meaningful partnership working with trade union partners that makes this difference, for the benefit not just of staff, but of patients in the service as a whole, and also agree with me that the workforce, through their trade unions, must be front and centre of creating change at Betsi Cadwaladr University Health Board? Diolch.

I thank Hannah Blythyn for that question. I absolutely think the health board believes as well that, in relation to the areas that she set out, planned care, urgent and emergency, cancer, but in those other areas as well, there is absolutely a need for performance to improve. Having established clear governance and the focus on quality and safety, the focus on performance will help us improve the outcomes in each of those areas and in others.

I think the point she makes is a very important point. The scale of the change in the health board is very, very significant and it needs to be, and there isn’t any part of the service that that wholesale change isn’t touching, and what that means on the ground, as she says rightly in her question, is staff delivering those services that people depend on right across north Wales, and I absolutely join with her in paying tribute to the work that they do and to the work of their representatives in the trade union movement in particular, and I absolutely think that working in that social partnership way, which is at the heart of how this Government works and how public services right across Wales work, is absolutely essential to delivering the kind of progress that we all want to see.

Thank you very much for your statement this afternoon, Cabinet Secretary. I just wanted to note a couple of omissions from the statement. You mentioned Abergele hospital and the great work that is going on there in terms of the knee replacement surgery, but 80 per cent of that building two years ago was classed as unsafe, and generally across the health board there is an ageing suite of estates across all of north Wales, coming at a significant cost. Are you satisfied with that current state of affairs within the health board and, if not, what support are you offering to executives and the board in regard to this? And could you provide an update on the North Denbighshire Community Hospital in Rhyl, or indeed the lack of, as my constituents would appreciate a latest update on that current state of affairs?

And can I just mention, as a footnote as well, that the grammar is really terrible on this statement? I know it was a late statement, but please could you notify and guide your officials to improve the grammar? Because a lot of them are in lower case, and if this is on the public website and publicly accessible, it doesn’t show a great reflection of the Welsh Government’s quality of statements in terms of public documents. Thank you.

I'm grateful to the Member for the care that he’s taken in reading the statement. In relation to capital investment, he will know that the NHS in Wales has faced constrained circumstances in relation to capital over many years because of decisions taken by his Government in Westminster to underfund public services and that’s had a consequence in all parts of Wales. It is inescapable that the health service in Wales will not have had access to the level of capital that we as a Government wanted to have been able to provide. The Member has an opportunity to help redress that for the year ahead in casting his vote today in support of the budget, and, given his protestations, his constituents will struggle to understand why he doesn’t do that.

On the specific point that he raised—[Interruption.] On the specific point that he has raised in relation to the plans for the hospital, the health board is reviewing proposals at the moment in partnership, as I think he may know, with local stakeholders, and I look forward to receiving a proposal from the health board in due course, which I can then consider, recognising the points that the Member made in his question.

Thank you very much. And although there is some good news, it’s clear that the situation has deteriorated in some important areas, and there are ongoing areas of vulnerability, according to the First Minister in referring to the report earlier on this afternoon. As you know, Ysbyty Gwynedd is in my constituency, and much of the workforce lives in our communities in Arfon, and my inbox is increasingly filling with concerns expressed by NHS staff who are at the end of their tether. They are under exceptional pressure and can’t cope at times. I am pleased, therefore, that you do recognise the hard work of staff across the health board in hospitals and in the community, and that you recognise their crucial and integral role in the journey to improve the health board.

My question, therefore, is: how will you improve the way in which the Government does listen to the important voices of the staff, those front-line workers who are eager to contribute to improvements, and are they an adequate part of the discourse? Is there room to improve opportunities for staff contribution to the improvement journey in Betsi, but also across the health sector more generally?

I thank Siân Gwenllian for that question. As I've discussed with her in other contexts, I had an opportunity to visit Ysbyty Gwynedd and to speak to the staff who are working so hard there, and also I spoke to patients about the care that they were receiving, and I had the clear impression, as she said in her question, that there's a sense of community there, which is very important, that staff and patients know each other very well very often. And that's something quite rare in that setting.

The Member is right to say that collaborating with front-line staff is an important way of being able to decide on the improvements that we can make based on experience, so that we can understand the practical impact of the changes that we are talking about, but also listen to suggestions about improvements that emanate from the floor of the hospital or the health service more broadly.

What I would say is that we've seen significant progress in terms of staff surveys across the health board, an increase in those responding and also progress in terms of people expressing the fact that they're more satisfied with developments over recent years. So that is important, I think. I think that's a sign that people do recognise that changes are happening. Certainly, people don't think that things are where they should be, but I do think that that is a positive sign of the health board's commitment to work with the staff, but also, hopefully, a feeling among the staff that things are improving—a recognition that there is more to do, but things are starting to improve.

And finally, Mark Isherwood.

Diolch. I spent New Year's Eve in accident and emergency, Wrexham Maelor, as a patient. I must start by saying that, when I arrived and from the moment I arrived, the staff were all brilliant. I sat down in the packed waiting room, the screen on the wall said half and hour to triage, then two and a half hours to treatment. I did get my triage after half an hour, and was told, 'Ignore the screen on the wall, it's at least eight hours to treatment.' I was eventually admitted to the majors ward and spent the night on a trolley there. I had to ask for a blanket at 3 o'clock in the morning. I was probably the youngest person on the ward that night. I mentioned to a cardiologist that it must be particularly bad because it was the new year, and he said, 'No, this is not exceptional.'

I also attended the 20 February briefing for Members of the Senedd by the campaigning organisation EveryDoctor, which included powerful testimony by a Betsi Cadwaladr University Health Board emergency medicine consultant, with important facts and contextual information and their explanation of what needs to change to safeguard lives and support NHS staff. She explained how even she had to personally search the hospital for trolleys when she should be treating patients at times when ambulances were queueing up outside accident and emergency. So, behind your assurances, when will you finally start engaging with front-line NHS staff such as those we heard from and I referred to to establish what really needs to change and how to deliver this?

Thank you for sharing your experience, Mark, with us in the Maelor hospital. I can assure you that I do speak to front-line staff, and I've done that, actually, on more than one visit to the Maelor hospital myself. One often hears very challenging accounts of experiences, but you also hear the level of commitment that staff are bringing to provide the care that we know the NHS provides day in, day out to patients right across Wales, including in north Wales.

There is pressure on emergency departments right across north Wales. I set out earlier in my answer to Darren Millar some of the support that we are providing to help alleviate some of that pressure. One of the things that I'm optimistic about in relation to the developments that Betsi has put in place, the board has put in place, is a hub that enables them to co-ordinate better pressures on hospitals, and a system escalation hub, which is now in place across the health board, which has a focus on admissions to ED to make sure that there is a consistent approach, and which, I hope, enables us to improve patient safety, patient experience and, generally, improve urgent care services.

Thank you, Cabinet Secretary.

Item 4 this afternoon is the Non-Domestic Rating (Withdrawal of Charitable Relief for Independent Schools) (Wales) Regulations 2025. I call on the Cabinet Secretary for Finance and Welsh Language to move the motion—Mark Drakeford. 

Thank you, Dirprwy Lywydd. I move the motion to approve the Non-Domestic Rating (Withdrawal of Charitable Relief for Independent Schools) (Wales) Regulations 2025.

Dirprwy Lywydd, we consulted last year on the Welsh Government’s proposal to withdraw charitable non-domestic rates relief from independent schools in Wales. On 28 January, I announced the outcome of that consultation and confirmed that the Welsh Government’s intention was to implement the proposal on 1 April 2025. The withdrawal of relief will bring independent schools with charitable status in line with other independent schools in Wales for the purposes of non-domestic rates.

There are currently 83 independent schools registered in Wales. Of these, 17 receive charitable rate relief and will be affected by this policy change. The policy aim is to make additional funding available for local services in Wales by withdrawing a tax reduction for private education that is paid for by public funds. The consultation sought to identify whether any of the independent schools affected by the proposal are especially organised to make additional learning provision. These are often referred to as ‘independent special schools’. Following careful consideration of the responses, we have refined our approach to include an exception from the withdrawal of relief. This exception will apply to independent special schools where most or all of their pupils have an individual development plan maintained by the local authority in order to meet their additional learning needs. The schools that will be affected by the withdrawal of charitable rate relief have low numbers of pupils with additional learning needs—less than 1 per cent on average, compared to 11 per cent for maintained schools.

I’m grateful to the Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee for their consideration of the regulations, and I ask Members to support the regulations this afternoon.

Here we are, yet again, with another Labour attack on private and independent schools. Not content with enforcing VAT on private independent schools and implementing a hugely damaging national insurance hike, Labour now wants to take away the 80 per cent business rate relief for charity-run private schools. Independent schools are being punished by Labour’s triple whammy on higher taxes.

But, Presiding Officer, this incessant campaign against private and independent schools runs the risk of increasing the burden ultimately on the taxpayer. Parents are withdrawing their children from these schools in light of higher cost, and where are they going to go? They will be heading to state schools, which are already under immense pressure as it is. I’d like to know whether the Welsh Government has carried out an impact assessment to see how this decision will, indeed, affect state schools, because I sincerely fear that this will lead to an increase in class sizes, and more pressure being piled on our hardworking teachers and school staff. A recent report found that 23 per cent of parents are toying with the idea of removing their children from private education. That’s a huge 140,000 children moving into state schools in England and Wales alone. After 26 years of Labour mismanagement, we have the worst educational outcomes of anywhere else in the United Kingdom, and this decision will only add to the already crippling pressures facing our schools.

Removing charitable status from independent schools may seem like a quick fix, but it risks creating more problems than it actually solves. It could lead to fewer options for parents, increased costs for families, and, more importantly, it risks shifting the focus away from the real issue, which is improving education for all children, regardless of their background. That’s why the Welsh Conservatives will be voting against these regulations, because it’s clear that the Welsh Conservatives are the only ones who can be trusted to fix the Welsh education system once and for all. Thank you.

We welcome these regulations and we, as Plaid Cymru members, will be supporting them this afternoon. We have raised this previously, and we regret that it hasn’t happened earlier, but we are pleased that it is happening now.

In looking at the consultation document, only 17 of the 83 independent schools in Wales were to be impacted. Obviously, you've said that there will be changes following the consultation in terms of schools at which the majority of the education is for those with special educational needs. So, can you confirm how many schools will now have to pay? And, of course, a related issue is the UK Government's policy of putting VAT on private school education. So, can the Cabinet Secretary provide an update in terms of how much consequential funding will come to Wales, and when do you expect that funding to be available in the Welsh Government's coffers?

The Cabinet Secretary for finance to reply to the debate.

Thank you, Llywydd. I thank Heledd Fychan for what she said about the intention of Plaid Cymru to support the regulations. At present, we expect that just one school out of the 17 that will be affected by the regulations is going to be outwith the new system, because they provide education to a child with additional learning needs.

Llywydd, of course I'm not surprised to hear the contribution from the Welsh Conservatives—not at all. Of course, they would rather that my constituents in Ely and in Riverside pay the £1.6 million that goes in charitable rate relief to schools whose parents are well able to pay the fees out of their own pockets. That's what you would prefer—you would prefer, as ever, to support the few and the privileged against those who otherwise pay their bills. And I resent, Llywydd—I absolutely resent—the point that the Member makes that it is somehow a problem to have more young people receiving state education in Wales. If there are children who move from the independent sector to the state sector in Wales, I welcome every one of them, and they will receive an education there that befits their needs and circumstances. So, to claim, as the Member did, that somehow this would be a terrible problem for these young people I think betrays a cast of mind that demonstrates, as we know, just how far away from the main stream of public opinion in Wales the Welsh Conservatives are. Their defence of privilege on the floor of the Senedd once again this afternoon is ample demonstration of why they have lost the confidence of the Welsh people and why they absolutely—absolutely—do not deserve to have that confidence either. I urge Members to support the regulations in front of the Senedd—they support the many, they support the few.

The proposal is to agree the motion. Does any Member object? [Objection.] Yes, there is objection, so we will defer voting under this item until voting time.

Item 5 is next. This item is the debate on rates of income tax 2025-26, and I call on the finance Minister once again to move the motion—Mark Drakeford.

Diolch yn fawr, Llywydd. Welsh rates of income tax were introduced in April 2019, and they apply to the non-savings and non-dividend element of income earned by Welsh residents. Welsh rates of income tax are forecast to raise nearly £3.5 billion in the next financial year. This is a vital element of resourcing public services here in Wales, and the proposed Welsh rates for the next financial year were announced in the draft budget in December. This rate resolution, if agreed, will mean that Welsh taxpayers will continue to pay the same income tax as their counterparts in England and Northern Ireland.

Making a significant change to our resources through income tax rises would require an increase to the basic rate—that's the only way you can raise significant resources in Wales—and that at a time when too many people still face issues paying bills. This is why I do not believe now is the right time to increase the income tax levels in Wales, because the consequences would fall most heavily on those least able to afford it.

But, as a fiscally responsible Government, we're mindful always of the need to ensure that the fiscal levers available to us provide the right balance between risk and reward. I believe, Llywydd, that the income tax powers devolved to Wales are currently too blunt to deliver a more progressive tax system. I intend, therefore, to commission an external review of our current income tax powers, exploring, for example, the more flexible set of powers available to the Scottish Parliament, as well as other reform possibilities. This work will consider the opportunities as well as the risks of these different models, working within the tax principles we have set ourselves in Wales. The research will provide a clear evidence base to inform future decisions about tax powers to benefit people in Wales.

All of this, Llywydd, is highlighted by the performance of Welsh rates of income tax to date under those existing powers. The budget in front of the Senedd this afternoon is hundreds of millions of pounds higher because of the stewardship of devolved taxes in this Senedd, and Welsh rates of income tax alone contribute an additional £253 million to the expenditure we will be able to make in Wales next year. WRIT itself is expected to continue to make a positive impact over the forecast period to 2029-30, where the cumulative net budgetary impact to that year, and including the next financial year, is forecast to be over £600 million.

Now, Llywydd, I will focus more on our final budget plans in the debate later this afternoon. However, the proposed WRIT rates reflect the need to ensure that we deliver a budget that is properly costed and balances spending needs with the revenues available to us. Retaining Welsh rates of income tax for each band at 10p in the £1 will allow us to do that. Moreover, the positive performance means that the budget overall will be higher than would otherwise be the case.

Finally, Llywydd, ensuring we make the most of our devolved tax responsibilities also means working closely with HMRC on the administration of Welsh rates of income tax. As highlighted in the National Audit Office’s most recent report, the robust processes and governance arrangements with HMRC are providing a strong basis for the effective and efficient collection and administration of Welsh rates of income tax today and into the future.

The Senedd is asked today to agree the Welsh rates resolution, which will set the Welsh rates of income tax for 2025-26, and I ask Members for their support in doing so.

I have no further speakers in this debate. So, if the Cabinet Secretary doesn't want to respond in any way, we'll go straight to the motion. The proposal is to agree the motion. Does any Member object? No, there is no objection. The motion is, therefore, agreed.

The next item is item 6. This is the debate on the final budget for 2025-26, and I call on the Cabinet Secretary for finance to move the motion—Mark Drakeford.

Thank you once again, Llywydd. Llywydd, the Welsh Government's final budget for 2025-26 was published on 20 February. I'm pleased that we are able to provide an additional £1.6 billion for our public services and the difference that they make to the lives of our fellow citizens.

Llywydd, I want to say that figure once again: £1.6 billion of additional investment. For those of us who have lived through the long, bleak years of austerity, we finally have the opportunity to turn the corner, to begin the process of repair, to restore a sense of hope that improvement can begin, because, Llywydd, austerity was insidious—it crept into our lives, blighting communities, shrinking ambitions, eroding confidence in our struggling services, and leaving behind a failing economy and a divided and sharply unequal society. Now, during those years, we had to make very difficult decisions here in the Senedd to reshape our spending plans and sometimes to reduce budgets. But, today, with this budget, we turn the corner, moving beyond austerity to investment and to growth. And while we cannot undo all the damage inflicted on Wales during the austerity years, we can begin to rebuild our services and create an economy that truly offers prosperity for all, because, Llywydd, this is a £26 billion budget, a budget where our capital spending will exceed £3 billion for the first time ever, a budget where that additional £1.6 billion will see an increase in revenue and capital funding for every single area of our public services.

Now, Llywydd, as everyone here knows, we are a Government without a majority. No party has ever had a majority since devolution began, so we have always had to craft a path to stability in Wales. When there is so much at stake, and no single vote called each year in the Senedd has more at stake than at the final budget, we have always found a way to work together in this institution to find a way forward by identifying those areas where we can reach agreement. I was always confident that we could do so again this year, working together quietly and carefully in the Welsh way, because these are decisions of such consequence for people throughout Wales.

I’d like to thank Jane Dodds, the leader of the Welsh Liberal Democrats, for the constructive way she has worked with us to identify those areas we agree should be prioritised. Throughout this process, we have worked together, not always agreeing, but always searching for the common ground where consensus can be found. We know that, beyond this Chamber, those who send us here believe it is a strength to see different political parties working together, and so do I. So, I’m grateful to Jane for putting the interests of the people of Wales above the daily clash of politics.

The agreement we have reached means that all the funding announced in our draft budget in December can be unlocked and passed to our public services. It also means that there will be more than £100 million extra invested in those areas where we have those shared ambitions, including an extra £30 million for social care to target delayed hospital discharges and provide more care and support in local communities; £30 million more to extend Flying Start childcare to two-year-olds in all parts of Wales—[Applause.]—completing one of the key ambitions of the co-operation agreement from earlier in this Senedd term, and to go beyond that, to increase the hourly rate to childcare providers to £6.40 each hour; and a guaranteed floor, a funding floor for all our local authorities, set now at 3.8 per cent, equivalent to £8.24 million extra and supporting nine local authorities in Wales. And I’m very pleased to say, Llywydd, that the budget now includes that £15 million to fund a pilot £1 flat bus fare scheme for young people—[Applause.]—aged 21 and under throughout Wales.

And now, Llywydd, we will move forward with a ban on greyhound racing, as the Cabinet Secretary for Climate Change and Rural Affairs announced a couple of weeks ago—[Applause.]

Okay. That’s the third set of applause now. I did have to tell people off in the public gallery for applauding the other day. I'm not going to tell Members off, but I suggest, quietly, that if we can hear without applause, then we can hear everything the Minister has to say.  

Llywydd, as well as that ban on greyhound racing, we will strengthen 'Planning Policy Wales'. So, all energy developers must, in future, consider all alternative options, including undergrounding, as part of any environmental impact assessment when making planning applications in Wales. And in support of that, we will also create a £1 million visual impact innovation fund to trial and gather data on new undergrounding technologies in the coming financial year.

And while this final budget reflects that agreement with the Welsh Liberal Democrats, it also responds to the intensive scrutiny of the Government’s draft budget proposals. I’d like to thank the Finance Committee and all of the Senedd’s committees for their careful, serious and detailed engagement with our spending plans. Those committees have raised childcare, have raised services for young people, social care, arts and culture, and local government, and in this final budget every one of those areas is getting more investment over and above everything we had already announced at the draft budget stage.

And that draft budget, Llywydd, as you know, included more than £3 billion of capital funding; a 4.3 per cent uplift for local government, now increased to 4.5 per cent at the final budget stage; £175 million in additional capital for the NHS alone to invest in building, infrastructure, equipment and digital technology. Many of us here remember that, last year, under a Conservative Government in London, we were offered £1 million for everything. One million pounds is what Jeremy Hunt provided for us in the autumn budget of last year for everything that this country needs. Now, £175 million in capital simply for the NHS alone. And that is on top of more than £400 million in revenue to support NHS service delivery and pay, and more than £100 million for education.

Llywydd, in the draft budget debate, I quoted Lloyd George, in his famous Limehouse speech, when he warned those who opposed his people’s budget that they would face a day of reckoning. Today, the words of that great Welshman echo down more than a century, because, Llywydd, make no mistake that this is the only budget before this Senedd. There is no other budget that can be endorsed here this afternoon, and a vote against this budget is not a vote for something else, it is a vote against the thousands of extra treatments that the NHS will now be able to provide next year because of this budget; it’s a vote against the employment of those teachers and teaching assistants whose jobs are secured by this budget; it’s a vote against the childcare places that families will now have available as a result of this budget; the roads and pavements repaired; the children’s play areas improved; the buses made available and affordable for all of our young people, and so much more.

Thank you for taking an intervention. Llywydd, this is a spurious argument. The Cabinet Secretary is suggesting—[Interruption.] The Cabinet Secretary is suggesting that by voting against a flawed budget as a whole, Plaid Cymru is voting against individual spending decisions. And if you follow the same logic—[Interruption.]

I cannot hear anything that's being said at the moment. Can we have some quiet, please, so that we can hear?

And if you follow the same logic, Labour MPs who voted against Conservative finance Bills at Westminster because they thought it was a flawed budget were somehow voting against giving Welsh Government any budget at all. They weren't. Plaid Cymru voted with them, saying that it was a flawed budget. What we're saying today is that whilst we can agree with elements of the budget—of course we can—this is a flawed Labour budget and that is why we'll vote against it today. 

Llywydd, I understand why the leader of Plaid Cymru needs to strive so hard to justify the actions of his party here this afternoon, but it doesn't hold water for a single moment. When you vote against this budget, the only impact, were you to succeed—and I assume that you vote that way because you intend to succeed—so if you were to succeed, everything that I have outlined this afternoon would be lost to people here in Wales. That's what they will see. That's what they will remember. And when you say to me that my argument here is a spurious argument, believe me, people will see through the argument that you make that, somehow, because this budget doesn't deliver everything that you would like to see in it, you would rather deny people in Wales all the investment that comes with this budget. It is a shameful argument that you try to make to us this afternoon.

Instead, Llywydd, the only responsible vote that can be cast this afternoon will be a vote to allow this budget to pass. And that is why every Labour Member here will cast our votes to make that happen, and that is because the eyes of our public services, those who work in them and those who depend on them, are on the Senedd this afternoon. There are those of us here who are determined to stand alongside them by passing this budget. I urge every Member here to do so the same.

The Chair of the Finance Committee now—Peredur Owen Griffiths.

Diolch, Llywydd. I am pleased to contribute to this debate today as Chair of the Finance Committee on the Welsh Government’s final budget.

The committee’s report on the draft budget included 39 recommendations and I'm pleased that the Cabinet Secretary accepted, or accepted in principle, the majority of them. I am also pleased to see a number of changes between the draft and final budget, particularly those in areas covered by our recommendations. In particular, we welcome the additional £30 million for childcare, which will ensure funding for the Flying Start programme to deliver childcare to two-year-olds across Wales. We called for an update on the roll-out of Flying Start in our report, and we are pleased to see some progress in this area.

The committee was also clear in calling on the Cabinet Secretary to consider a funding floor for local authorities, so it's good to see that a guaranteed 3.8 per cent funding floor is available for all local authorities. We also made a number of recommendations relating to appropriate levels of funding for social care, and we welcome the additional funds being allocated in this area. We are also pleased to see the announcement relating to the allocation of funds for a pilot scheme for young people aged 21 and under to pay only £1 for a single bus fare in Wales. Targeted support for young people in the budget was identified by the committee as a key priority following our engagement work and our debate last summer, and it is positive to see the Welsh Government taking action in this key area.

These are all laudable improvements and I hope that the Cabinet Secretary agrees with me that the changes made to the Welsh Government’s plans prove the value of effective and robust scrutiny.

Turning now to the Cabinet Secretary’s response to our recommendations, on funding to mitigate the impact of increased national insurance contributions on public services, it is disappointing that the Government has not yet had confirmation from the Treasury of how much money to expect to cover these costs, although we welcome the Cabinet Secretary's commitment to keep us updated on this point, hopefully by late spring.

It was also heartening to hear that the Government is responding positively to our recommendations relating to preventative spending, in particular that embedding a preventative approach will be key to the Welsh spending review. I also welcome the work being done by the Government to press for further funding flexibilities within the fiscal framework and look forward to hearing about progress in this area.

The committee will shortly be hearing from the Chief Secretary to the Treasury at the next meeting of the Interparliamentary Finance Committee Forum in Belfast later this month, and I look forward to raising these issues directly with him during those discussions.

Llywydd, I'd like to finish my contribution by looking ahead to the next budget round, which will be the last of this current Senedd. I will shortly be writing to Senedd committees, as I have done in previous years, to explore ways to maximise budgetary scrutiny in the Senedd, in order to mitigate the impact of a potentially curtailed scrutiny window for the 2026-27 budget round.

Also, naturally, we are interested in the outcomes of both the UK and Welsh spending reviews and hope to hear more about these from the Cabinet Secretary before our annual—and now well-established—budget priorities debate in the summer and our pre-budget session in committee, which will be held in early autumn.

I also note the Cabinet Secretary's response to the recommendation on updating the budget protocol, and I look forward to working with the Government to make essential changes before the more fundamental review after 2026.

To conclude, I would like to thank the Cabinet Secretary for his ongoing engagement with the committee and for his constructive response to our recommendations. Thank you.

We know this budget today, of course, sets a direction of travel for the delivery of public services in Wales, and sets the tone for investment and growth in Wales. But in terms of the direction of travel, the starting point for that travel is a result of a quarter of a century of previous budgets from a Labour-led Government here in Cardiff Bay. Let's see what the results of the last 26 years of Labour budgets look like: Wales by far has the longest NHS waiting lists in the United Kingdom and the worst educational outcomes, stunting the futures of our children and young people, despite the Welsh Government receiving £1.20 in funding for every £1 spent on these services in England. Not only that, but people in Wales have the lightest pay packets in the UK and businesses are slammed with the highest business rates in Britain. It's not a pretty picture.

We were desperate to see a budget today that changed the course of the Welsh Government and the prospects of the people of Wales; a budget that sought to fix Wales instead of ploughing on with the same old failed orthodoxy. What we've been presented with today, though, is merely a sticking plaster over the problems that far too many people face in Wales. The budget before us today won't chart a new course, it won't fix the deep-seated problems that 26 years of Labour have given us, it won't lead to greater prosperity for our people, it won't put more money in people's pockets and it won't give us the public services that the people of Wales are crying out for.

But it's no great surprise, of course, that Labour are happy to carry on like they have since 1999, even if the opinion polls are telling them that the next Senedd election may well be a very rough one for them; it's no wonder that so many are standing down ahead of the next election. Instead of tackling the big issues, they've increased the bureaucracy budget by a third in two years. They want to channel funding towards 36 more politicians in this place, and rather than putting forward and funding a Welsh winter fuel allowance, which they argue is outside of their remit, they spend millions and millions of pounds on international relations, which have nothing to do with the Welsh Government's remit. These are just some of the reasons why we, as Welsh Conservatives, have been clear that we would not support this continued waste and misallocation of spending priorities.

Coming on to the passing of this budget today, because, of course, it looks like it will go through, it was disappointing to see the sole Liberal Democrat propping up this failing Labour administration through a pretty weak deal, and I say that with all respect and fondness for the Member. But perhaps it's not surprising, given that the Liberals have happily propped up the Labour Government in this place at various points during devolution. Instead of endorsing Labour's quarter of a century of failure, it would have been very welcome if the Liberal Democrats instead stood up for farmers and rural communities across Wales, instead of siding with the very Labour Party in Cardiff and London that is undermining the rural way of life and placing unbearable burdens on farmers.

Would the honourable Member take an intervention?

Certainly.

I'm really interested in your last comment that I've failed to stand up for farmers, when I've secured £10 million in this budget for our farming communities, and time after time again, as you well know, I have stood up to Labour in order to ensure that our farmers have the voice that they need, so, please, could you give me the evidence for that? Thank you very much. Diolch yn fawr iawn.

I believe, and we believe, that a much stronger deal could have been brokered between the Lib Dems and Labour in this place—[Interruption.] They failed to do that.

I'm very happy to clarify—[Interruption.] I'm very happy to clarify.

Can we hear Sam Kurtz in silence, please? 

I'm very happy to clarify for the Member from the Liberal Democrats why I believe, like you, that the Lib Dems have failed farmers and agriculture in this budget, because if you follow the inflation index of the Bank of England, it's not £330 million that should be allocated to Welsh farmers, it's over £500 million, which Jane Dodds did not get in this budget.

Thank you. I agree with those comments.

Welsh Governments have a different way. We'll stand up for Welsh pensioners by backing the implementation of a fully costed Welsh winter fuel allowance, which was slashed by the UK Labour Government, meaning 400,000 Welsh pensioner households will be going without the allowance thanks to London Labour. Let's not forget that Cardiff Labour have refused to stand up for Wales and rolled over when Starmer and Reeves chose to impoverish older people here in Wales. 

We would deliver a fairer funding formula for our local authorities, which delivers for all of Wales and puts more money in people’s pockets, so they can choose to spend their money on the things that matter to them. We’d unleash our economy and abolish business rates for small businesses, who currently labour under the highest rates in Britain, and we’d work hard to tackle waste and misspending by dealing with things like the £250 million spent on NHS agency fees, which is far too high—a result of the lack of long-term healthcare planning from this tired Labour Welsh Government.

Llywydd, this budget won’t fix Wales. Wales needs change, and the Welsh Conservatives are the only party who can offer a real positive alternative to the past quarter century of a failed Labour Government. Diolch yn fawr iawn.

After the austerity of recent years, the expectations of the people of Wales were high in respect of today's budget, and our expectations as a Senedd. After all, the slogan of the Labour Party in last year's general election was ‘Change’. And for many years before that, how many times have we heard in this Chamber how different things would be in Wales with that change? But things are not so different, are they? Perhaps the financial settlement is better than it was under the Conservatives, but it is not enough. If this budget is passed today, this will be the reality: services that people depend on will continue to be cut, and some will disappear entirely; council tax will rise significantly; far too many people will still be unable to afford food, unable to afford to heat their homes and will be living in poverty.

Where is the HS2 money? Where are the hundreds of millions needed towards clearing and protecting the coal tips? Where is the fair funding formula? And as for the Crown Estate—well, Welsh Labour's views are clearly very different outside—

Will you take an intervention? Thank you for taking an intervention. If this budget isn't passed, and we lose £1.6 billion, where, in your opinion, do you think this £1.6 billion should be taken away from? Which budget should lose that money?

It is being passed. You have a deal. We're talking about the billions of pounds missing that are owed to Wales, and I will get to that, if you let me continue. 

In terms of the Crown Estate, Welsh Labour’s views are clearly very different outside the walls of this Senedd, with none of the Welsh Labour MPs supporting Plaid Cymru's motion on the devolution of the Crown Estate in Westminster last week. None—not one. And instead of accepting our invitation to work together in order to demand a fair financial settlement for Wales, and take action on these areas, what has this Government done since the draft budget was laid, and continues to do today? It has attacked Plaid Cymru for demanding better for Wales. It has defended Labour's harmful decisions in Westminster, such as continuing with the cruel two-child cap policy, which affects 65,000 children here in Wales, and it has defended the changes to the winter fuel payments, which are going to affect thousands of pensioners. And it has refused to recognise the uncertainty and harm that has been created by the changes made to national insurance. And that’s why we have reached a situation where we cannot support this budget today.

Plaid Cymru will always seek to find common ground where possible, and voting against the budget is not a decision taken lightly; neither is it a vote against everything in the budget. There are, of course, elements that are to be welcomed, especially the continuation of some of the policies and investments secured by the co-operation agreement. The scrutiny work of some of the Senedd’s committees has also evidently influenced the last iteration of the budget, such as the increase for arts and culture—still inadequate, but a step in the right direction—and the subsidised bus travel for young people, which the last cohort of the Welsh Youth Parliament strongly advocated for.

But delving deeper, and beyond the headlines, what is clear is that the budget still falls short of adequately addressing the challenges we face as a nation. Whilst we accept, as outlined by the Cabinet Secretary, that undoing 14 years of damage caused by the Conservatives is not going to be possible overnight, we have seen nothing from the UK Labour Government to signal that Wales matters to them. Not a single penny of HS2 consequential is reflected in this budget, and the lowest real-term increase of all the devolved nations in resource funding up to 2025-26, at just 1.3 per cent. In fact, when you look at the £1.7 billion in additional funding for the Welsh budget over the next two financial years, a large proportion will have to be swallowed up to offset the UK Government's short-sighted decision to increase employer national insurance contributions, with no plans to reimburse the cost for third sector organisations, charities and even GP surgeries. In fact, even the reimbursements that will come for public services will likely leave Wales facing a shortfall compared to England, something described as a fundamental unfairness by the Cabinet Secretary himself.

So, whilst the Conservatives have gone, austerity hasn't gone with them, and Wales continues to be short-changed—hardly the brighter future for Wales promised when the draft budget was announced. But it's not just about the money available either. It is about how it is spent, and on this the Welsh Government's record leaves a lot to be desired. While the health budget in particular has grown significantly in recent years, we've seen little to no improvement on waiting lists, ambulance response times and targets for cancer treatment. Our universities face an existential crisis. Our schools are struggling. The arts and culture sectors are, even with the additional funding, trailing at the bottom of the European nations when it comes to investment, and are in crisis.

So today it is for these reasons that Plaid Cymru is voting against the budget. But even so, the offer still stands to work cross-party to secure fairness and parity for Wales in terms of funding and powers. The question for Labour here in Wales and for this Welsh Government is: are you willing to do so, and put Wales before party?

Mike Hedges. [Interruption.] Mike Hedges.

Thank you, Presiding Officer. I did hear you, but there was an awful lot of noise. 

Yes, and it was surrounding you.

But it wasn't me this time.

You're right.

This is a good-news budget. There’s an extra £1.5 billion for our public services, and the priority is putting Wales on the path to growth. Every department will benefit from an increase in revenue and capital funding. Capital spending exceeds £3 billion for the first time at final budget stage. This will improve infrastructure and minimise spend on the expensive mutual investment model. This is in contrast to previous years, when very difficult decisions were made and budgets cut, affecting key public services. We cannot undo all the damage inflicted on Wales over the last 14 years in just one budget, but this budget shows the power of two Governments with the same shared values working together for the benefit of public services.

What do I want the budget to achieve? Improve health outcomes by early intervention, primary care availability, diagnostics and health promotion. We continue to hold health debates, and be it dementia or cancer, we unanimously agree on the importance of early diagnosis. This means spending more on diagnostic tools. Health improvement is critical. Social prescribing leads to reduced obesity. Increased fitness reduces demands on the health service. Improved education outcomes, not in meaningless data such as PISA, but in qualifications achieved—. The weakness of the Welsh economy is that we have too few high-paid jobs in the high-wage economic sectors and growth sectors such as ICT, life sciences and green energy. This works well around the world, driven by Governments supporting the university sector. Education is the key to a successful economy. Support by Government for schools and colleges improves skills, and economic success should follow.

Yet again the Conservatives and the Plaid Cymru are critical of the budget. They are either incapable or unwilling to produce an alternative budget. The Conservative policy is straightforward. They oppose all tax rises, they oppose all new taxes, they oppose borrowing. They support additional money being spent across portfolios with their suggestion savings being incredibly small.

More surprisingly, Plaid Cymru can produce a budget for an independent Wales but not for the Senedd this year. Their budget for an independent Wales does not include funding state pensions. The SNP in Scotland offered to collect all taxes in Scotland and provide their share of the costs incurred by the Westminster Government on areas such as state pensions and defence. Do Plaid Cymru want to offer this? They have the figures, they can produce a budget. If you do not produce a budget, you cannot promise more money to everyone without removing it elsewhere in the system.

To help, I've got some suggestions. Cap basic farm payments at £50,000. There are 381 farm businesses receiving between £50,000 and £100,000 a year and 60 receiving over £100,000 a year. On the economy, to quote Russell George, the economy committee has concluded:

'On the whole, the enterprise zone concept has not proved itself to date in Wales despite the Welsh Government spending over £200 million on them',

to provide any success. I would end enterprise zone funding. Enterprise zones did not work in the 1980s. Why do people think they're going to work now?

Health takes over half the Welsh budget. Is money spent on health effective and efficient? I do not know. Nobody knows. We have waiting list targets but how many surgical interventions do we expect for each surgeon? How can we increase activity? How can investment in artificial intelligence improve productivity? I don't believe the share of expenditure between primary and secondary care is correct. We need to protect the share of health expenditure spent on primary care this year, and reverse the direction of travel that is reducing primary care's share of health expenditure since primary and secondary care were, unfortunately, merged. When patients cannot get to a primary care appointment, what do they do? They go to A&E and clog up the A&E system. 

What happens if a budget motion is not passed before 1 April of the upcoming fiscal year? Well, section 127 of the Government of Wales Act 2006 automatically takes effect. This would give the Welsh Government and directly funded bodies authority to spend resources, retain income and draw cash from the Welsh consolidated fund of up to 75 per cent of the limit approved in the previous fiscal year, or £7 billion less than this budget provides. That is what people are voting against. They are voting against an additional £7 billion for Welsh public spending. If the budget is not passed at the end of June, up to 90 per cent of the previous fiscal year's limit is deemed authorised. This means that additional funding given to Wales in the Westminster budget would not be able to be spent. Also, we get to spend 10 per cent less than we spent last year. That is what austerity looks like.   

Today, I feel a deep sense of responsibility. This budget is crucial not just for the progress we've made but for securing vital funding. If we don't pass this budget, we risk losing billions for the people of Wales, and I cannot in good conscience let that happen. Let me be clear: this is not the budget I would have chosen for Wales. It doesn't, for me, deliver the bold, ambitious future we deserve, but I am proud of the key victories of the Welsh Liberal Democrats, wins that will improve lives and spark real, meaningful change. We've secured additional funding for childcare and social care, critical services for our most vulnerable. I'm proud that we've prioritised these often overlooked fields. Our children and elderly deserve the greatest investments, and I'm pleased that we've directed more resources towards their care. 

There's always more to fight for. Take childcare. Securing 12.5 hours of free childcare for every single two-year-old across the whole of Wales is a good start, but it can't be the end, not when the cost of care remains one of the most pressing issues for all our families. Our ultimate goal must be 30 hours of free high-quality childcare for all children from nine months onwards. This is not just about early childhood development; it's about tackling child poverty and empowering parents, particularly mothers, to return to work. I'm proud of what we've achieved so far here in Wales, but I won't stop demanding more.

On social care, the £30 million we've secured will help streamline the healthcare journey, stopping people from ending up in hospital and smoothing the shift from hospital to home. For me, this is about dignity, ensuring everyone gets the right care in the right place, where they can heal and thrive. I have to be honest—this is just a sticking plaster on a system in crisis. Social care, we know, is chronically underfunded and understaffed, with the Welsh Local Government Association warning of a £646 million funding gap over the next three years. And I am pleased that we have secured a significant agreement for local authorities on a funding floor for our local authorities. It should have been more, of course, and I'll continue to fight for that. 

Beyond that, I've secured a series of commitments that will genuinely improve lives across Wales: the groundbreaking bus fare cap for young people aged 21 and under; £5 million to help leisure centres cut energy costs, and another £5 million to upgrade playgrounds; the restoration of the Heart of Wales line, with five daily services; increased funding for local roads, pavements and public toilets; £5 million to improve water pollution; and specific investments in Mid and West Wales, including the Wyeside Arts Centre, north Powys well-being campus, and Brynaman Lido. By putting people before politics, I hope to have shown that meaningful change is possible.

And I’m also very pleased that I’ve secured a ban on greyhound racing in Wales, one which will secure us—[Interruption.]—I’ll just finish this sentence, James, if I may—one which will secure us as a nation and a country that puts animal welfare first. Thank you, James.

I’m grateful to you for taking an intervention. On the civic ban on greyhound racing in Wales, can you tell us what assurances you got from the Government about the people who are going to lose their jobs and livelihoods in that racetrack because of this ban? 

James, you may well or may not know that there are hardly any people working at that—[Interruption.] No, no. And if you heard—[Interruption.] If you heard—. If you heard our Deputy Minister say that there’s going to be a group that will be coming together to look at those jobs and those people, to look at how we improve and implement the racing ban, then you will realise that there is a commitment to that. James, I know that you feel that greyhounds, like your dog, perhaps don’t deserve the start in life that all dogs should have. I do, and I know many of us do as well. Carolyn. 

Jane, will you take an intervention? I just want to stand in solidarity with you. A lot of what's in this budget today, we share those values with you, and we really welcome the extra funding—me personally for roads, for public bus transport, for many things, but to ban greyhound racing. We had two cross-party debates in this Senedd. So, I just want to say you do not stand alone in this. Thirty-five thousand people signed that petition. We had the short debate on it, and it impacts on thousands and thousands of dogs. It’s a cruel sport. At that racecourse, a quarter were injured. So, I’d like to just say I stand in solidarity, thank you very much.

Thank you. Llywydd, I'll just carry on; I don't have much further to go. Whilst these are all positive changes, I cannot ignore the fact that, as a nation, we are still being let down by Labour in Westminster. The UK Government’s failure to deliver a fair financial settlement for Wales limits our potential. I’ve always said that we need the devolution of the Welsh Crown Estate and we need the HS2 consequential funds to be delivered in Wales.

I’ve made the difficult decision to abstain on the budget vote. I cannot fully support a budget that falls short of delivering the investment and radical change that Wales needs. Our fight must be for more: for better childcare, for better social care, for a greener environment, and for better funding to our local authorities.

In closing, ahead of International Women’s Day, I want to share the words of the former President of Liberia and Nobel Peace Prize winner Ellen Johnson Sirleaf. She said:

'If your dreams do not scare you, they are not big enough.'

Let's dream big. Let's deliver big. Let's do more for Wales. Diolch yn fawr iawn.

Let’s be clear about this: if the Welsh Government lost this vote today, it would effectively bring to an end 26 years of a failing, tired, clapped-out Labour Government that's devoid of the right ideas to fix the problems and the challenges that Wales faces. That is a good thing, and that is why all of us on these benches will be voting against this budget today.

We’ve heard, of course, the fantasy economics from the Plaid spokesperson, a person who believes that Wales is better off outside the United Kingdom, as an independent nation, whereby we would either have to slash our public services budgets in half or double taxation in order to ensure that people got the services that they need. And, of course, we've heard a victory speech from the single Liberal Democrat in this Chamber, who had her short shopping list, which she presented to the Cabinet Secretary for finance, which, no doubt, he was delighted to be able to sign off, because he had that money already prearranged down the back of his sofa to be able to deliver. But let’s be straight about this: the Welsh Labour Government is failing the people of Wales. Whether it's on the health service, with the appalling situation whereby over 20,000 people are still waiting more than two years plus for their treatment, compared to just fewer than 150 over the border in England, or whether it's on the economy, where people take home those lighter pay packets, or pay the worst business rates, or whether it's on the situation in our schools, where our young people are not getting the quality of education all of the time that they deserve, Wales is being let down.

These things have to change, and they're not going to change by what we've seen announced in today's budget. Our money is being frittered away. People are paying more for services—£1.20 per head, remember, that is what's received by the Welsh Government: for every £1 spent per head on a devolved service in England, £1.20. We're paying 20 per cent more, but we're getting far less for our money in terms of value for money. And where is this money disappearing to? Well, we know that hundreds of millions of pounds have been frittered away and burnt through on a loss-making, nationalised airport that should never have been nationalised in the first place; we have a nationalised Transport for Wales train company, one of the worst-performing train companies in the whole of the United Kingdom, losing hundreds of millions of pounds each and every year; £32 million spent on a nationwide default 20 mph speed limit that hundreds of thousands of people opposed, and you as Government put your fingers in your ears. And, of course, you cancelled, at great expense—because lots of money has been spent already on trying to progress these—you cancelled new road projects and capital investment projects and you froze projects, pushing up costs for motorists and businesses. Whether it's planes, trains or automobiles, Labour's transport policy has been an absolute disaster in every single direction. I'll take the intervention.

When will you publish the Conservative budget for Wales?

Do you know what? I've requested access to the civil service from the Welsh Government's First Minister. As is always the case, the leader of the opposition, in advance of a Senedd election, should have access to the civil service in order to be able to lift up the bonnet and see the mess that the previous Government has left behind because of the lack of maintenance on and proper management of public finances. It's about time you signed that permission and gave me that access, First Minister.

So, what are we seeing in this budget? More of the same. More of Labour taxing, spending, frittering away our hard-earned cash. Paying more, getting less. Smoke and mirrors. Hundreds of millions coming in, and hundreds of millions going back down the M4 in national insurance contributions.

Here's what we would do differently. We would have a Welsh winter fuel allowance to support those pensioners, hundreds of thousands of them, who are losing out on hundreds of pounds this winter, because pensioners shouldn't have to choose between heating and eating. We would back those Welsh businesses. We would scrap business rates for those small businesses. We would support our high streets and invest in them. We'd boost our tourism industry. We'd scrap that horrible levy that is threatening them like a Damocles sword, threatening the future of those viable businesses. We'd help our motorists. We'd scrap those ridiculous 20 mph default speeds that you, of course, were fully responsible for. [Interruption.] I haven't got time to take your intervention.

And how do we pay for it? Well, we'd get rid of all of that waste, we'd get rid of all of that inefficiency, and we'd scrap some of those ridiculous things that you're spending money on: more bureaucrats; all of the Senedd reform costs; the heat and light that you're paying for in Welsh Government buildings that are practically empty across the country; you're so-called justice policy, which isn't even devolved, that you're spending money on; millions on overseas offices; a basic income scheme, giving £19,000 a year to people even if they're sat on their backsides doing absolutely nothing; unions getting millions—a big increase, by the way, Cabinet Secretary for finance, a big increase in the money for the unions. No doubt lots of that will be coming back in donors to all of your Members in advance of the next election. Is any of that going to fix the Welsh unemployment rate? Is any of that going to fix our schools? Is any of that going to deliver the improved services we need to see in our hospitals? Not one iota, and that's why we will be voting against this budget, and I hope everybody else does too.

We heard from the Government on several occasions that equality and social justice were steering the priorities of this budget. Well, if that were true, there would be a lot more money for childcare, and that's what I want to focus on.

Once again, there was no gender-budgeting process for this budget, and I'm sure that we would have felt that that was very disappointing. It was something that our committee, the Equality and Social Justice Committee, noted. It hasn't been mainstreamed. That needs to happen, and I'm sure we would have seen a great deal of difference in the decisions made on expenditure, such as childcare, if that was the case, because the need for better provision of affordable childcare is a call that Plaid Cymru has been making for many years. Report after report has shown why this is key in terms of ensuring that our children have the best start in life, to help families take advantage of work opportunities, particularly women.

Experts agree that childcare is an absolutely key issue in tackling the shameful levels of child poverty and inequality that scar our communities in Wales and that therefore limits our potential as a nation. That is why the expansion of childcare, as the Cabinet Secretary mentioned, was one of the core policies of the co-operation agreement with Plaid Cymru, of course, and we therefore welcome the additional funding in the budget for the commitment to expand childcare to all two-year-olds, especially amid concerns that the Government was not going to complete the next phase of that policy.

At the beginning of the year, the Minister for Children and Social Care said that funding was not the biggest challenge in terms of achieving this, but ensuring that there is an adequate workforce, and she also said that the survey commissioned in terms of local authority plans for phase 3 had identified significant challenges that are not related to funding. So, without solving those challenges, how will this funding be used effectively to achieve the policy aim? How will the funding that has been allocated in the budget help to solve the serious shortcomings within the current childcare system, including the barriers that prevent families from accessing the support that they need, and families with disabled children in particular? Only 5 per cent of local authorities have adequate provision at present, according to the most recent figures that we've seen, for disabled children. Five per cent. So, what assessment has been made, alongside the expenditure in the budget, of the impact of the increase in national insurance contributions on the sum that's been identified?

Childcare in Wales is not fit for purpose.

Will you take an intervention, Sioned Williams?

Sorry, yes.

Whilst I agree with a lot of what you said, and thank you for taking the intervention, what puzzles me here is why you didn't sit around the table. Jane Dodds, to her credit, has sat around the table and has been listened to, and it's been reflected in our budget with things that we agree on. What I can't understand is why you flatly refused to sit around the table and just completely ignored the needs that you're outlining.

Do you know, we wouldn't have so many holes to fill if we didn't have to constantly be picking up after the gaps that are left by the decisions the UK Government make, or the refusal that they have to give us the fair funding we need? The kind of money we need for childcare is nowhere near what's in this budget. We're talking hundreds of millions of pounds to really fix childcare in Wales. That kind of money, Joyce, wasn't on any table the Welsh Government had set.

I will carry on. Childcare in Wales is not fit for purpose. Research carried out by Oxfam Cymru and Make Care Fair has found that 92 per cent of parents say that childcare costs are too high in relation to their income, and 70 per cent say that they have no spare money left from their income after paying for childcare.

The Bevan Foundation and several Senedd committee reports have drawn attention to the complex pattern of support that currently exists, with a mixture of support coming from different programmes through the Government in Westminster and the Welsh Government, depending on the age of the children, the location of the families, and their work status. So, there is a problem with the fact that our childcare offer and our Flying Start offer are two separate offers. We need one universal offer that is easy to understand and easy to access. Unless the Government tackles these systemic challenges and funds for that, the funding for childcare in this budget will do little more than act as a sort of sticking plaster on a system that is ineffective, rather than providing a meaningful, long-term investment to create a childcare system that works for children, for parents and for Wales.

The problem with that argument is, of course, that by voting against the budget, you actually reduce the expenditure on that and all other matters as well. And we listened to the fire and fury from Darren Millar—he obviously learnt more when he was in Washington than simply what Donald Trump enjoys for breakfast. And, of course, he talks about closing overseas offices—he's the greatest travel agent we've had in this Chamber—and I very much welcome his contribution this afternoon.

The reality is that we haven't seen a real alternative, not today or at any point, during the scrutiny of this budget. It is perfectly fair and reasonable, of course, in any democracy, for people to say, 'We don't like what you're proposing here. We think you should be doing something different here. We would have different priorities.' That's the politics of our debate. What isn't reasonable, and what isn't a fair debate and a realistic debate, is saying, 'We don't want to spend money here, we want to spend it there, so we're going to vote in a way that will mean you won't spend money anywhere.' That's not reality. That's student politics. It's not the reality of political life.

And let me tell you, I can—[Interruption.] Even without my glasses—[Interruption.] Let me finish. Even without my glasses, I can see Rhun shouting at me. Let me tell you now, Rhun: I was in Cwmtillery last night, talking to people who'd been affected by the landslip in that community, talking to them about how we are going to invest in ensuring that we do have the funds available to put into that community to keep those people safe. Don't you dare go back to Cwmtillery and make promises to them if you vote against this budget today.

Would you take an intervention? It's a £600 million bill that is needed to deal with the legacy of coal mining and the safety of coal tips. Welsh Government asked for £25 million, and that is all that UK Government has given Welsh Government specifically as a result of budget discussions.

I don't disagree with you on that point, as it happens, but there's a bigger point here, that if you vote in such a way as to reduce the expenditure available to this Government by either £3 billion or £1.5 billion—I'm not taking another intervention; you had your chance—you cannot then argue for additional expenditure elsewhere. You've lost that argument, and you've lost the ability to make that argument.

Now, I actually agree with much of what has been said by people in the debate this afternoon. I agreed with what Sam Rowlands said about the major problems facing Wales. I think we do need to see a re-engineering of the United Kingdom state to ensure that Wales gets a fair deal. I think you're right about that. But you never made that argument. For 14 years the Conservatives were in charge and you didn't make that argument for a moment, and making that argument today doesn't have the credibility that you believe it might have. And I would also say this very, very clearly to you, that you can argue about what you would do differently—and we heard some of that from Darren Millar—but the reality is, if this budget fails this afternoon, we won't be coming back in a few months to debate and to discuss your expenditure plans; we will be coming back to discuss the cuts that we will be making in the services that we want to protect. And that is the reality of the vote this afternoon.

I want to see more investment in the health service. I want to see more investment in our schools. I want to see the investment in industrial strategy for the Heads of the Valleys. I want to see the investment in transport infrastructure. I want to see a new station in Abertillery. I want to see lots of different things invested in my constituency and elsewhere, and we debate this matter every week on a Wednesday afternoon. But none of that will happen unless you vote for the budget today, because we won't next week be debating and discussing that long, long shopping list that opposition parties come with every week, we will be debating what cuts we wish to make, and that is not where I want to be.

But let me say this: I was very pleased to hear the finance Secretary in his introduction to the draft budget before Christmas. I felt that the points he made then were the points that we need to be debating today. We need to recognise the additional investment that is being made in our public services as a consequence of those of us who vote for the budget this afternoon. We need to see the additional investment in the fabric of our country and our communities and in the lives of our people by investing the £3 billion of capital investment. We need to see all of that, and those of you who vote against the budget have got no right to criticise that when this budget debate is done and the vote is taken.

But then I want to see the second part of the debate that the finance Secretary introduced, and he referred to it in an earlier debate this afternoon on Welsh rates of income tax, because we need to see the devolution of the Crown Estate, we need to see the devolution of rail infrastructure, we need a fairer funding settlement for Wales, and that should command the support of everybody on all sides of this Chamber, but voting against the budget today delivers none of that; it delivers nothing at all accept cuts to public services and you’ll never find me voting for that.

I’ll start by referring Members to my register of interests as a farmer. Llywydd, once again, Labour have failed to grasp the effects of their legacy of 25 years of poor management and this budget fails to address so much of that. Yes, there is some extra money this year, but it’s a short-term plan. What happens when the Chancellor runs out of borrowing in a couple of years' time and we see things flatline? You need to have a sustainable budget, one which will last the term.

And it’s a simple truth that it's the families and businesses across Wales who are having to live with the poor decisions and policies of the years gone by. We’ve heard of the obvious failures today, many times, within our health and social care system and our education provision, and there’s a lot of political posturing here today, because you know the budget is going to go through: you’ve done the deal. It’s political naivety to suggest all the arguments you’ve made; there’s no way on this earth that you would support a Conservative budget if we put one forward today, and that is a fact.

Look at the misguided policies you’ve brought forward. Look at 20 mph: £33 million to roll that out. Now, councils are having to deal with the cost of changing roads back to 30 mph, following that huge backlash. [Interruption.] Of course, Mick.

Does that mean, effectively, that your whole position today is really nothing more than a posture?

No, we are the official opposition. It is not our job to support you; our job is to hold you to account and drive the best policies possible out of this Government, and that is what we continue to do.

On 20 mph, local government need to have enough resources to put that back right and I know that is in question at the moment. And I want to reiterate the Conservative position: we are not against 20 mph zones. We will work with councils to put it right, but what we would do is revert the default back to 30 mph.

And moving to rail, and still—and we’ve heard it already today—still we are waiting for the HS2 consequential, and it’s clear that we might have to wait some time. We were told repeatedly—and this has been said lots of times, and it will continue to be said—we were told repeatedly that Wales was owed billions of HS2 money and now the story has changed. Why is that? Why is the Government now only asking for £400 million when £38 billion has been spent to date, owing us at least £1.5 billion, which we could spend on valuable infrastructure?

Look at agriculture and rural affairs: it’s clear how out of touch Labour continue to be when it comes to our farming community. This time last year, we saw the largest protest that the Senedd has ever seen—thousands of farmers protesting here—and since Labour have come into power in the UK Government, eight months ago, we have seen tens of thousands of farmers protesting outside Westminster. Even today, and I wish I could be there standing with them, thousands of farmers have marched on Westminster again to show their disappointment at the awful way in which they are being treated. It is clear that the voices and concerns of the farming community are not being heard at either end of the M4 by Labour.

To make matters worse, they seem happy to let their Westminster colleagues short-change rural affairs funding in Wales by subjecting it to the Barnett formula. This means that, going forward, Wales could lose out on up to £150 million in agricultural funding, a cut of 40 per cent. Where is the outrage? Where is the outrage, Alun, from the Government benches about this? Whilst there has been an increase in rural affairs, which is welcome, it goes nowhere to replacing the £62 million that has been sliced away over previous years.

The Welsh Government needs to ensure that rural affairs are funded properly to enable a long-lasting and sustainable future for rural communities and the industries within them, and stand against UK Labour's attack on family farms. We need this Welsh Labour Government to start standing up for the people of Wales, and not simply defending every poor and draconian decision made by their colleagues in Westminster, especially when they go against the Well-being of Future Generations (Wales) Act 2015, such as the family farm tax. Sadly, the last 26 years of Labour management here in Wales does not fill me with any confidence.

I welcome this final budget, because it's a redistributive budget that will benefit those who need the money most, and that is one of the things that, obviously, the Equality and Social Justice Committee has focused on. That is our job. Obviously, I would like to say that the excellent £30 million extra for the Flying Start phase 3 roll-out is down to the letter we wrote to the Cabinet Secretary for finance, but, in the real world, I realise that this was down to the commitment that Jane Dodds has to enable all young children to get quality childcare, two and a half hours a day, five days a week, which is the way in which it most benefits children. So, that investment, £30 million, is to benefit children.

I agree with Sioned Williams that it doesn't benefit the women who want to go back to work, but we can't do everything at once. Plaid Cymru say this is a flawed budget, but they seem to want to only debate issues that we haven't yet achieved. Of course, we all want to see the consequential from HS2, and based on the £80 billion that is the current cost for HS2, that means we ought to get £4 billion, and we look forward to that money, but we haven't got it yet. Today we are debating the budget that we need to have to deliver for the next 12 months.

Therefore, I absolutely welcome the extra £9 million for buses, which is obviously going to mostly benefit those who don't have a car and rely on buses to get around to do their daily business. I welcome the £15 million for reduced bus fares for young people up to 21 years, because almost all of them will not have access to a private car, and therefore their ability to get to college, to get to jobs, to get to see their friends is really important.

I also want to focus on the importance of the budget for active travel, because it's interesting to note that the UK Government has just announced £300 million in active travel for English local authorities, following our example in ensuring that we are tackling the climate emergency, getting people out of their cars for short journeys and making the roads safer for those who are pedestrians and cyclists. Particularly, it is the entitlement of children to be able to go to school either walking, scooting or cycling, and to be able to do so safely. I appreciate that may not be possible if people are in a rural area where they have to travel more than a few miles to get there, but for those of us who represent urban areas, it is an incredibly important thing that people can actually go to school ready to start to learn by having walked or cycled to get there.

The second group who benefit from encouraging the modal shift to active travel are those who live on our congested roads who absolutely do not choose to live there, places like Newport Road in my constituency. Nobody chooses to live on Newport Road, it's just where people have to live because that's the only option open to them. So, I'm very keen to ensure that the £15 million we spent last year for active travel is what we are continuing to spend this year, so we can continue to ensure that there is that preventative approach in our budget that, quite rightly, the Finance Committee Chair spoke about.

I think, lastly, I want to highlight the correspondence that the Equality and Social Justice Committee has had with the Cabinet Secretary for Social Justice around the importance of investing further money where possible in the Warm Homes programme. Because I absolutely understand the argument that the Cabinet Secretary is making that we cannot spend more than the capacity of the skills that our workforce has to do a proper job in delivering the Warm Homes programme. But I'm very pleased to see that there is a commitment to utilise any unspent funding on investing further money in the Warm Homes programme if other budgets are underspent.

May I just say how disappointed I was last week when I heard and saw that the Lib Dems had sold out and decided to support the budget? [Interruption.] You can make as many noises as you like, but by propping up this tired Labour Government and helping push the budget over the line, the Lib Dems have now been complicit in letting the country down. Just like my colleague Sam Rowlands said, I have tremendous respect for the Member—

May I—?

You may.

So, let's just concentrate on 21 and under. Have I let them down by creating a £1 bus fare? Is that what you think? Do you think it's unfair? Do you think I've let down all two and four-year-olds by giving them more childcare? Do you think I've let down people who are wanting to leave hospital, by getting more money into social care? You know, you need to be a bit more specific here. And actually, I think it's you, as the Conservatives, who've let the Welsh people down if you don't vote for this budget.

Okay. Thank you very much for your contribution. Coming to your 21-year-olds, that was our idea, not anyone else's, to begin with—[Interruption.] It was. It was our idea—[Interruption.] We have indeed. As my leader has said—[Interruption.] If I can continue—

I need to be able to hear the Member. Can we listen to what the Member has to say?

Thank you. So, as my leader has just said and as I've just said, that was ours—[Interruption.]. And if you let me continue, I'll carry on as to how—

Can we please have a little quiet to hear the Member's contribution? Natasha Asghar.

Thank you very much, Presiding Officer. Whilst the £1 bus fare scheme, reached in the backroom budget deal, has been welcomed by students and young people, I am disappointed that you didn't go further. You could have—[Interruption.] You could have secured free bus travel for under 25s in Wales, as the Welsh Conservatives have long campaigned for, and it's proved to be very successful in Scotland.

Turning to the details within the final budget, I'm afraid there is very little to get excited about from an educational point of view, or from any other point of view. I fear that this budget falls far short of what is required to provide our children and our young people with the education that they deserve. We need to see resources directed at making teaching in Wales a more attractive profession to boost our workforce numbers, and take targeted action to improve reading skills, mathematics and science. Wales already faces significant challenges in education and this budget fails to provide the necessary investment to address them. Our schools are being asked to do more with less and that is simply not sustainable. Our children deserve better than that, because this is about the futures of every single child and young person here in Wales. One of the most concerning aspects of this budget is the lack of support for vulnerable learners. We know that children from disadvantaged backgrounds face a range of significant barriers to education, yet this budget, in my view, does not allocate sufficient funding to bridge the gap for these vulnerable learners.

Now I want to turn to higher education. Whilst the Minister already recently announced a short-term funding boost for universities, this budget offers very little help for them going forward, and that's really very disappointing. Over the last few weeks and months, the troubling financial situation of our universities has been discussed and debated at great length here in the Chamber, yet it appears as though the Welsh Government isn't doing anything in the long term to help. Let me share the words of Universities Wales in response to this final budget:

'it is difficult to see how this budget provides a sustainable position for Welsh universities going forward.

'If nothing were to change, Welsh Government runs the risk of universities entering the next academic year without the required support in place.'

'Given the Welsh Government's focus on growing the economy across Wales, this budget would seem to have a backward step—not just for the higher education sector but for local economies and communities across the country.'

End quote. As we all know, the number of Welsh language teachers has been declining over the last five years and the Welsh Government is pushing ahead with a Bill to ensure that all children receive at least 10 per cent of their education through the medium of Welsh. Given this ambition, perhaps the Cabinet Secretary can explain the rationale behind the decision to slash £120,000 from the Welsh in education budget line.

In closing, Presiding Officer, as far as I'm concerned, this budget fails to adequately fund schools, it undervalues teachers, it ignores the needs of vulnerable learners and it neglects the vital role of further and higher education. Without a doubt, education is one of the most important areas for building a better society, but I fear that this budget proves that it is not high enough on the Government's agenda. Thank you.

I'm going to focus my remarks on the very serious implications for Wales if the Senedd today does not pass this critical budget. Put simply, a vote against this budget will deprive Welsh citizens of much-needed additional Welsh funds and public services. We would lose billions for Wales and everything that comes with that, including extra funding for schools, for the NHS, for public transport and for local council services. Without an approved budget by the start of the new financial year on 1 April, spending is automatically restricted to 75 per cent of the previous year's budget under the Government of Wales Act 2006. Wales cannot afford to lose a single penny of that public spending, especially after the massive loss of EU structural funding to Wales.

Although we all have priority areas we would wish to see funding increased on, myself included, to vote down this final budget as put would jeopardise the Welsh spend and be deeply irresponsible to the people of Wales. Moreover, it would also be illogical. To ensure deliberate—deliberate—reduced public spending in Wales by a Senedd where the majority of Members, yourselves included, repeatedly call for increased public spending—well, here it is; it's a direct mechanism to get it. So, to Plaid and the Conservatives, please do the right thing this afternoon and vote for this budget for Wales. Diolch yn fawr.

I'm going to speak to the consequences of not agreeing this budget. I find that it's been really interesting here today, the arguments that are being put forward, and everybody agrees, except for the Tories, of course, that it's going to take more than one budget to fix 14 years of Tory neglect and mismanagement, but it's a start. The Tories' finance spokesperson says that the budget won't fix Wales. Well, we are, I will remind you, starting to fix the mess, or some of the mess, that your party left when it crashed the economy—I didn't hear you mention that, of course. I tell you what won't fix Wales: it's turning away £1.5 billion extra from the Labour UK Government. That won't fix Wales.

If this budget is not agreed, and I found it quite incredible what Peter was saying—that this was just a farce, just a fiasco. Well, it's not just a farce and just a fiasco about the budget, because, actually, what it's going to give is an extra £4.15 billion over the course of the financial year to Wales. But you're risking, quite happily, it seems to me, cutting that, not delivering it.

The Tories, of course, aren't the only ones at play here. They've been boosted by Plaid, and they're voting against £3 billion of capital funding for new schools, for the NHS, for more homes, for renewable energy, for road repairs—

Will you take an intervention?

—in a minute—for public transport and flood defences. Of course, they both seem to have this list of things that they want to invest in, but the point is that they haven't had any conversations about them. I could go to the shop with a shopping list, but if I don't pick anything up, it doesn't arrive in my basket. It's a very funny thing, you know—it just doesn't arrive there. And that's what you've done: you've got a shopping list, but you've got an empty basket, because you haven't bothered.

There's a guaranteed 3.8 per cent funding floor for all the local authorities, and I've looked at the authorities that are gaining from the fact that Jane has been around the table. I've looked at them, and quite a number of them are Plaid run. So, I'll write letters to them and ask if they don't want the money, because you're running some of them. In fact, you're running most of them. And I'll also do the same in Pembrokeshire—because you're going to vote against it—and ask them if they don't want the money. Because when you vote against it, that's what you're doing.

Thank you very much for taking an intervention. There's a remarkable amount of political scaremongering going on this afternoon—

No, no, it's fact. [Interruption.] You can sit down now. You can sit down now. I'm not listening. I'm not listening now. You can sit down now.

I agree entirely with the Cabinet Secretary—

He's only got a few seconds to make his intervention. Let's hear what Rhun ap Iorwerth has to say.

I agree entirely with the point that the Cabinet Secretary for finance made earlier, that this is a Government without a majority that had to seek a means to get its budget through. We know it has a means to get its budget through, so this isn't about a debate today, is it not? But I'm serious—[Interruption.] I'm serious, and we're a party—[Interruption.]

I'm not listening now.

I'm serious, and we're serious, about using our leverage as an opposition party. We have been in co-operation deals with Governments for a number of years, but Welsh Government this time around knew that our asks were too much. In putting the partnership in power to the test, this Labour Government has failed the test, because Plaid Cymru was asking for too much.

Thank you for the intervention, which told me nothing I didn't already know. The point here, quite clearly, is, in our shopping basket, which we actually did fill up, we've got a 3.8 per cent funding floor for all local authorities—and I will write to those and ask them if they welcome it and don't want it—an extra £30 million for childcare, £30 million more for social care and £10 million for rural investment schemes. That's what filling up your shopping basket looks like. That's what having a conversation looks like.

So, let's just take what's happening, and Jane does take credit for this. The Wyeside Arts Centre and north Powys well-being campus will have extra money, and I hope, James, when you go back, that you shout around, saying, 'I didn't vote for this, and I'm sure you don't want it.' So, I hope that you'll ask them if they want their money back, instead of standing up in the way that you have. I also hope that you'll ask the people at the Pontybat junction and refurbishment of Brynaman Lido if they don't want the money either. So, the Tories criticise our public services, but in the next breath they say they prioritise putting money in people's pockets. Well, you didn't really have a very good record of putting money in people's pockets when you were in Government. You jeer from the sidelines, but you offer nothing constructive—nothing at all. And, more than that, you don't even have the first idea of how you're going to pay for it. 

Plaid complain that the extra funding isn't enough—we've just heard that. So, how would sending it back to Westminster help the people of Wales? I'd like you to explain to people the opportunities that you're denying their communities. You're not standing up for Wales, but you're playing pure party politics with people's lives, with people's jobs, with people's welfare, with the investment in the things that people need, and, by contrast, this Government and this budget represent clarity, it represents confidence, and I'll certainly be voting for that.

The Cabinet Secretary for finance to reply to the debate—Mark Drakeford.

Thank you very much, Llywydd. May I start by thanking the Chair of the Finance Committee for his comments on the changes made to the draft budget that brought us to the budget before the Senedd this afternoon? I agree with him on the importance of the scrutiny process, and I think that Members can see, in the final budget, a number of important things that committees have suggested to us through the scrutiny process, and I look forward to working with the committee on the work outlined by the Chair in the final year of this term.

Llywydd, I've listened carefully to what has been one of the more lively budget debates that I remember on the floor of the Senedd. I've listened carefully to contributions. I'm very grateful to Jane Dodds for her contribution this afternoon and ever since the draft budget was published before Christmas. When the Member said to the Senedd that it was her sense of responsibility that had led her to coming to the decision she's made this afternoon, I think that there is a lesson in that for many Members of this Senedd and I look forward to continuing the conversation with her on childcare ambitions, for the future of the implementation of the ban on greyhound racing, on how we can make sure that energy companies act responsibly when they come to Wales and do the things we know will be important to our futures.

I'm especially grateful, Llywydd, to my Labour colleagues for their contributions this afternoon: for Jenny Rathbone's drawing the attention of the Senedd to the redistributive nature of this budget, how it puts its help where it is most needed; to Mike Hedges for the ambitions that he set out, the Labour ambitions that we have for the future of Wales; to Alun Davies and Rhianon for focusing on the consequences of failing to pass this budget this afternoon; and to Joyce for pointing out that there are those of us who go about what we do in order to fill up that shopping basket, while others are just interested in manufacturing more and more shopping lists.

Llywydd, I said I listened carefully, and I listened carefully to the Welsh Conservatives, which puts me in a different position to almost anyone else in Wales, because nobody is listening to them, and their contributions this afternoon explain exactly why. The same tired clichés that I have heard manufactured in a quarter of a century in the political wilderness. Twenty-five years of being against everything and in favour of nothing. Now at least, Llywydd, the Conservative Party has the excuse of being the official opposition. As Peter Fox said, it's part of their duty to oppose. I understand that. In the conversations I had, three different conversations with Peter Fox and with Sam Rowlands, they explained to me that it was highly unlikely that the Welsh Conservative Party would be voting for the budget this afternoon. I understand that.

No such explanation can help us to understand the extraordinary decision of Plaid Cymru to oppose the budget today. And again, listening carefully to what Plaid Cymru Members have had to say, I thought I could discern three different and competing explanations for that decision. First of all, there are some suggestions that Plaid Cymru are opposing the budget because they think it doesn't go far enough. I'm always surprised that the party decide to use the example of childcare as their paradigm case, given that this budget delivers what Plaid Cymru agreed in the co-operation agreement. I agree that there's more to do, of course there's more to do, but how can you, how can you possibly, be voting against a budget that delivers one of your own major ambitions for this Senedd term? I'm absolutely baffled by it.

The second reason I thought I discerned in Plaid Cymru's contribution was that the budget didn't deliver on a series of things that this budget could not possibly have delivered on. They're going to vote against the budget because it doesn't deliver devolution of the Crown Estate, because it doesn't require the reform of the Barnett formula, because it doesn't produce consequentials for rail investment in Wales. Now those three things are all policies of this Labour Government, but they're not policies that you can pursue by voting against this budget, because none of those things are on the table in the basket of responsibilities that lie in front of the Senedd this afternoon. It's an argument of madness to vote against a budget that does the things it can do because it can't do the things that it can't possibly do.

But then I heard a third argument, I heard a third argument, and this now I think is probably the argument that I think is uppermost in Plaid Cymru Members' minds. They're going to vote against the budget because they think they can without it having any consequences. I've had the benefit sitting here of hearing the leader of Plaid Cymru say repeatedly through the debate, 'But you're going to win the vote; you're going to win the vote.' I can say this to you: King Herod would blush at the washing of hands that you have offered us this afternoon. 

[Inaudible.] The Conservatives were very open in saying they wanted this budget to fall. We are not in the position of wanting the budget to fall. Our demand—[Interruption.] No, no. [Interruption.] I'll explain very, very clearly. But, in order for us to support a budget, our asks were too much for Welsh Government to stomach and you sought a deal with the Liberal Democrats. I'm not criticising the Liberal Democrats for it, but you got your deal. Our asks were greater, because we were putting the partnership in power to the test, and that is exactly what we promised we'd do and is what we did in practice.   

It's a piece of fantasy excuse, because you never came to tell us what would be required for you to support the budget. Three times I met with your party spokesperson and not once—not once—did Plaid Cymru return to discuss what you would have wanted in order to be able to have allowed this budget to go through. 

Thank you again for taking an intervention. It's important; we want to have this discussion in the open. I've sat in a meeting with the First Minister, who didn't mention how we could work together on the budget. It's very, very clear—[Interruption.] It's very, very clear that we took a different approach to this budget from the Welsh Government. Our demands were too great in this instance. 

No, no. If you have demands—[Interruption.] If you have things—

I need to hear the Cabinet Secretary in his response now, please. 

If a party has things that they want to achieve through the budget process, your party has plenty of experience of knowing how that works. I have sat in rooms with Plaid Cymru Members who have very constructively done the heavy lifting of working through ideas, seeing what is possible and, in the end, allowing the budget to proceed. On this occasion, you were not prepared to do that at all. Instead, instead, you come here this afternoon and say that, because other people will do the heavy lifting, because other people will vote for the things that make such a difference— 

Allow the Cabinet Secretary to complete his contribution now, please. Rhun ap Iorwerth, allow him to complete his contribution, please. You've had a lot of opportunity in intervening that have been accepted by a number of Members this afternoon. So, Cabinet Secretary to complete. 

Diolch, Llywydd. The position of Plaid Cymru is that because there are other people who will do the responsible thing, because there are other people who will vote for the things that matter to people in Wales, that you will—because you think it's a free hit—vote against the budget. But let me tell you: people in Wales will understand, if you vote against the budget, it can't be because you think that somehow that really will not matter. The only reason why a political party can vote against something is because you want to defeat it, and, if you didn't want to defeat it, you shouldn't be voting against it. It really, really is as simple as that, and the political cul-de-sac into which Plaid Cymru has backed itself over the weeks since the draft budget is a prime example of the Denis Healey first law of holes: if you're in one, stop digging. But you've been digging as though there was no end in sight. 

Now, Llywydd, right across Wales when this budget is passed, as I believe it will be this afternoon, there will be a sigh of relief in our public services, in the health service, in our local authorities, amongst those organisations that work so hard to provide housing for our people, for all the things that this budget will do. That is why we've put it in front of the Senedd this afternoon. That's why it represents a turning of the corner away from those years of austerity, and in favour of an economy that can grow, public services that can be restored, opportunity that can be created again, and, most of all, hope for people here in Wales that the future really can be better than the past. That is why I ask you to vote for this budget this afternoon.

The proposal is to agree the motion. Does any Member object? [Objection.] There are objections. We will, therefore, defer voting until voting time.

Item 7 is next, which is debate on the local government settlement for 2025-26. The motion is to be moved by the Cabinet Secretary for Housing and Local Government, Jayne Bryant.

Today I'm presenting to the Senedd, for its approval, the 2025-26 local government settlement for the 22 unitary authorities in Wales. First, I’d like to put on record my sincere thanks to local government, both elected members and staff across all local government services, for the critical work that they do for our communities, people and businesses across Wales.

Over the past few years, local authorities have had to navigate the pandemic, the cost-of-living crisis, and an extraordinary inflationary period and challenging financial circumstances. I want to pay tribute to the incredible amount of hard work and resilience shown by both officers and elected members in responding to the ongoing challenges councils have faced. 

In preparing for the Welsh budget and this settlement, we have engaged closely with local government, and I'm grateful to all leaders for the discussions that we've had. The additional funding provided through the UK Government autumn budget is incredibly welcome, and I think it's important to remember that this could have been a very different day if we hadn't had a general election when we did and hadn't seen a Labour Government. Local authorities were preparing for a cash-flat budget. I'm mindful that 14 years of constrained public funding from the previous UK Government cannot be turned around in just one budget, and it'll take time for the public finances to recover. But our overall settlement for 2025-26 is more than £1 billion higher than it would have been under the previous UK Government, allowing more money to be directed to our public services and to Wales’s priorities. It'll help us put us back on the path to growth. 

As we've developed the 2025-26 final budget, we have focused on delivering the First Minister’s priorities, supporting our public services and creating the conditions for growth and investment. We know that local authorities play a fundamental role in unlocking these opportunities and delivering services to people across Wales. That’s why, in 2025-26, local authorities in Wales will receive over £6.1 billion in general revenue allocations from core funding and non-domestic rates. This means the core revenue funding for local government in 2025-26 is 4.5 per cent higher than the current financial year on a like-for-like basis—a cash increase of £262 million.

I'm pleased that the budget agreement between the Welsh Government and Jane Dodds, leader of the Welsh Liberal Democrats, includes an additional £8.24 million to secure a funding floor in the settlement, at 3.8 per cent. This further supports nine authorities across Wales. I've provided indicative information on revenue and capital grants planned for 2025-26. These amount to over £1.3 billion for revenue and over £1 billion for capital, for our shared priorities for local government. As part of the agreement with Jane Dodds, we have been able to provide additional revenue grant funding for new pathways of care transformation in social services of £30 million, for children and communities of £30 million, and capital support for childcare and play of £5 million, which will support delivery of these specific local authority services.

The local government borrowing initiative has been increased by £1 million to £6 million in 2025-26, with a further £4 million in 2026-27, to support up to £120 million of capital investment for highways management. The agreement has also enabled an additional £5 million for the low-carbon heat grant, to increase the support available to local authorities to install low-carbon heating systems in their leisure centres, making them greener, warmer and more sustainable.

I'm pleased that the general capital funding for local government for 2025-26 has been increased by £20 million to support inflationary pressures and give authorities more flexibility to finance smaller capital projects. I'm proud that the Welsh Government has prioritised local government and other public services in its budget decisions, and I ask Members of the Senedd to support the motion today.

I have selected the amendment to the motion. I call on Peredur Owen Griffiths to move the amendment, tabled in the name of Heledd Fychan.

Thank you, Dirprwy Lywydd, and I move the amendment this afternoon.

I want to start my contribution by thanking all local government staff across Wales for their dedication and hard work in these tough times. With services being cut to the bone, you could forgive workers for deciding to cut and run, and seek employment elsewhere, but they choose to stay in local government because of their commitment to providing the best possible service for the communities they serve. A message to those workers is 'thank you', because the communities you serve need you more than ever. But, as I alluded to, things could be much better. Whilst this local government settlement is an improvement on what was originally earmarked for this forthcoming fiscal year, it falls far short of what is required. To pretend otherwise would be a denial of the true crisis we face in local government.

Given that there's an estimated 7 per cent increase in budgets needed across the board to ease pressure on council budgets, local authorities are being forced between a rock and a hard place. Services that are already ravaged by years of brutal Tory austerity have been cut further. Make no mistake, despite the improved funding settlement, hefty council tax increases are incoming. Something I hear when I'm conducting surgeries in my region is that the public are becoming even more disillusioned with diminishing local services whilst being charged higher council tax bills. This is why it's galling when the Westminster Labour Government say they are not raising taxes on working people. When they fail to fund local government properly, they are indirectly responsible for council taxes being raised on working people. Higher council tax bills are the inevitable consequence of successive Governments that have failed to provide settlements that reflect the need. Until the Labour Governments in Westminster or Cardiff ensure that local services are properly funded, they're going to have to levy one of the most inequitable taxes there is. I acknowledge and welcome the implementation of the funding floor, but we're still not in a position where the RSG floor is a regular and settled component of the budgetary process. This still needs to be formalised, and not down to the last-minute decision of Cabinet Secretaries or budgetary negotiations. The de facto funding floor does, however, fall short of what our councils need to just stand still.

That is before you consider the elephant in the room, which is the looming national insurance contribution burden on local authorities. The national insurance increase represents £109 million pressure in direct costs, with £44 million pressure for social care commissioning. Local authorities the length and breadth of Wales desperately need to know where they stand on national insurance contributions so that they can plan their own budgets and perhaps save some services earmarked for the axe. So, even though we don't know the quantum that has been promised from Westminster for the public sector, can the Cabinet Secretary confirm the mechanism she will use to share that funding out? Without that clarity, we will continue to see the downward trend of cherished services, cultural institutions and lifelines for communities being closed or diminished. I'd also like to see the Welsh Government explore further options for reforming how local government is financed. I'd like to see multi-annual funding cycles considered in order to better deliver financial planning, service delivery and enable long-term projects. This is the front line of delivery, and it deserves our full support and our full financial backing.

Finally, the ongoing injustice of the Barnett formula persists under this Labour Westminster administration. This was meant to be addressed, but there's no indication that it will be. Without fair funding for Wales, we will continue to lose out on the hundreds of millions of pounds our communities desperately need. A Labour Government at either end of the M4 was meant to be the cure for our funding ills, according to many across this Siambr, but we are yet to see the realisation of that promise. Diolch yn fawr.

I agree with much that has already been said, actually, from across the Chamber, and also want to take this opportunity to thank council staff up and down Wales for all that they do, and we as Welsh Conservatives will be supporting the Plaid amendment today, because it's right that we recognise the UK Government's role in forcing up council tax in Wales with their own poor funding arrangement.

But we will be voting against the Government motion today. The way we fund our local authorities has a direct impact on all the lives of the people across Wales. For far too long, we've seen decades of underfunding of local councils from this Welsh Government, creating growing disparities between Labour heartlands and rural Wales. The funding formula naturally creates a system of winners and losers by design—

Laura, will you take an intervention?

Yes, of course.

Thank you. You talk about councils in Wales, but, previously, before the new UK Labour Government was taking over, one in five councils across the UK and in England were at risk of bankruptcy. Is that not the case, Laura?

You can't deny, I don't think—I know you've sat there in your seat for a long time—you can't deny that this Government has chronically underfunded our local authorities across Wales now for decades, and that has had a devastating impact in local communities across Wales. Yet, for far too long we've seen the funding formula being pushed by you and said it's okay by you, but we've seen that it's just not working for councils, and it isn't working for people that we look to serve. The local governments formula is broken, and has forced many local authorities to make difficult choices, especially in rural areas like Powys and Pembrokeshire, who have been asked to do more with less. Over the last decade, Powys council has had to make over £100 million of brutal cuts, taking away vital services from those who need it most.

It's good that there's been an agreement for a funding floor for this year—it's necessary—but it's very disappointing that it took a back-room deal with a single Liberal Democrat MS to achieve this rather than listening to the chorus of voices across Wales in local government and calls from the Welsh Conservatives. So, it would be useful to understand whether that funding-floor principle will continue in the future for future settlements, or whether it's a one-off bung to make sure that your budget passes. But we also need an explanation as to where this money for a 3.8 per cent funding floor was hiding in the first place, because you knew about the pressures that the councils are under, but this extra £8 million only seemingly magically appeared when it was politically convenient for Welsh Labour. I don't think that it is a particularly transparent way to conduct politics when it comes to local authorities and funding for some of our most key services in Wales. We also need to know where the Welsh Government got this 3.8 figure from, because Andrew Morgan from the WLGA called for at least a 4 per cent funding floor, and it's easy to see why, because it needs to be more.

Labour's national insurance rise has piled on pressures on local authorities, and they still don't know how much extra cash there will be available to each of our councils to meet those costs. How can we be in a situation where councils are voting for their final budgets but still waiting for clarity on how much money will be available to them? It's appalling that this Government hasn't been fighting harder to get answers for our councils. We do know that any extra cash won't cover the whole cost, leading to more cuts to vital services, more council tax rises for hard-working people.

Now, despite the new funding floor for this year, council tax is rising by inflation-busting amounts across much of Wales and 10 per cent of rural areas, making it harder for families to make ends meet. The simple truth is that high council taxes are unsustainable and put huge stress on household budgets. We were always told that a UK Labour Government would deliver better outcomes for Wales, but this settlement shows that isn't true. The Welsh Government's funding formula is in need of an urgent review and reform. We must address the issue of high council taxes, which are putting too much pressure on families.

We, the Welsh Conservatives, would deliver a fairer funding formula that's fair for all of Wales, putting the money back into people's pockets so they can decide how they want to spend it, because the inherent unfairness of this funding formula is leading to closed leisure centres, closed libraries, soaring council tax, stretched household budgets, and hollowed out communities. This is not just about pounds and pence. A failure to fund our local authorities properly will rip out the heart of our local communities. The funding settlement that you've produced today falls far short of what is needed. This Government must do better. Diolch.

The budget does not provide enough money for local government. No budget has ever, or ever will, provide enough money for local government. This is, however, the best local government financial settlement for over 15 years. It is a good funding settlement for local government, certainly compared to funding settlements in recent years. It does not solve all the problems of the last 14 years, but it's definitely progress.

The Welsh Government is a major source of income for local authorities, but it's not the only source. Local authorities get money from council tax, and also from fees and charges. The core revenue funding comprises the revenue support grant and redistributed non-domestic rates, which together make the aggregate external finance. Aggregate external finance makes up the bulk of Welsh Government's funding to local authorities, and will be £6.1 billion next year—again, additional money comes in from other areas. After adjusting the figures to make them comparable, that's an increase of £261.7 million, or 4.5 per cent, compared to 2024-25.

The Welsh Government has implemented a funding floor in the final settlement. This means no authority gets less than a 3.8 per cent increase in 2025-26. This protects the income of local authorities against relative or actual population growth, because that's what drives the percentage increase. It's population growth, or lack of population growth. The key data is the standard spending assessments, and they are intended to reflect the variations in the need to spend that might be expected if all authorities responded in a similar way to the demand for services in their areas.

The data used to calculate the distribution of standard spending assessments across the service areas are collected from various sources, mostly on an annual basics. The exceptions are the settlement dispersion data, which is based on the census and selected indicators derived from censuses. Other data is collected directly from councils, including number of pupils, planning applications, street lighting units, length of road, length of coastline, homelessness and housing data. Data on the number of dwellings is provided by the Valuation Office Agency, along with the food and trading premises data. Population projection figures for local authorities are prepared by the Welsh Government knowledge and analytical services division. In a small number of cases, the actual or best estimate of expenditure on a service is used, where the expenditure is predetermined and is not directly under the control of an authority.

The formula for all services was reviewed ahead of the 2001-02 settlement, following a recommendation made by the independent review undertaken by Swansea University and Pion Economics. The recommendations were incorporated into 2001-02 and subsequent settlements, and the necessary analysis was completed through the mechanism of the distribution sub-group.

There are three main tables produced by Welsh Government on support for local government, and the one that generates the most interest is the percentage increases. For 2025-26, as we know, it varies from 5.6 per cent in Newport and 5.3 per cent in Cardiff to 3.8 per cent for those protected by the floor. These variations are driven by population change. We're all aware, especially the Cabinet Secretary, of the increase in population in Newport, and part of it is due, of course, to the bridge not having tolls any more. But they're having that increase in population.

The second table is the absolute amount provided to each council by the Welsh Government. And Cardiff gets the most. Rhondda Cynon Taf comes second. And why? Because these are the two biggest authorities. The lowest is the smallest, which is Merthyr Tydfil.

The third table, which I think is the most meaningful, shows Welsh Government expenditure per capita. This varies from the highest in Blaenau Gwent at £2,294, then second comes Merthyr, and third comes Denbighshire, going down to the lowest two, which are Monmouthshire and the Vale of Glamorgan, with support for other councils being between these extremes. This shows that Monmouthshire and the Vale of Glamorgan have substantially less than the other councils in Wales, with Blaenau Gwent, Merthyr and Denbighshire having substantially more.

Blaenau Gwent have, at 58 per cent, the highest proportion of dwellings in band A, with Merthyr Tydfil having over 50 per cent of its properties in band A. In contrast, Monmouthshire has 1 per cent of its properties in band A and the Vale of Glamorgan less than 3 per cent in band A. Monmouthshire has three quarters of its population in band D and above, while Blaenau Gwent has 10 per cent of its properties in band D and above. From the above, it is clear that Monmouthshire raises substantially more with a 1 per cent rise in band D council tax than Blaenau Gwent. The councils with the ability to raise more council tax on a band D property, which is what council tax is calculated on, get less support from the Welsh Government.

But can I just say a way the system would be improved? Why will the Welsh Government not publish the calculations for the standard spending assessments? You publish the actual results. Why would you not publish the calculation? They'd be very long, but you've got them. You must have them, otherwise you would not be able to provide the data at the end of it. And as some of my colleagues on the Finance Committee will say, I always use these words: show your workings. 

Our local authorities have a huge responsibility—I think we can all agree on that—providing services that we all take for granted. Over—well over—600 functions are provided, and we do thank them for all they do year in, year out. But they cannot undertake these responsibilities unless adequately funded, and I am very glad that a funding floor is to be put in place, something that I have advocated for right from the start of this budget process and which I believe the Government were minded to move forward with despite a deal, anyway. However, the fact that we need one—need a floor—again demonstrates that the current funding formula is flawed and does need urgent review. It can't be right for some councils to struggle to deliver their basic services while carrying minimal reserves while the formula gives others more than adequate resources, allowing them to deliver all they need while accruing significant reserves. This needs to be addressed. It's an unsustainable anomaly, which can't continue. 

I also welcome the move by the Welsh Government to provide baselined revenue to enable councils to service capital borrowing. Utilising councils' borrowing powers to accelerate much-needed infrastructure work is a sensible step, one I would have taken, and one I welcome as an ex-leader of a local authority. However, despite the increases this year, the fact remains that the last 26 years of Labour have left our local authorities under extreme financial pressure. 

Regarding council tax, currently in England, as we know, any council tax rises over 5 per cent are subject to local referendums. That is not the case in Wales and, as a result, it has allowed the Welsh Government to implement cuts on local authorities knowing that they, in turn, will be forced to increase council tax on hard-working families. I was really quite concerned when looking at Neath Port Talbot's budget consultation, where it stated, and I quote,

'the Welsh Government has assumed that Council Tax will rise by an average 9.3% across Wales.'

It then went on to say that their council tax is proposed to go up by 6.8 per cent. I was quite astonished that the Welsh Government would even publish an assumption at all, let alone one at a level of 9.3 per cent. Those assumptions are something I've never, ever seen in my whole life as a local government leader. And this in itself will drive up council tax and was a poor decision, because it creates a baseline for councils to work towards.

There shouldn't be a standing expectation for the public to keep paying, especially when times are so hard. Council tax increases should be the last resort after all other avenues have been exhausted. As a past council leader, my assumptions for council tax in budget builds was always set very low, to drive efficiency. Why would you play out your budget hand? I'm just surprised that the Welsh Government did this—and perhaps it's not across all councils, but I certainly saw it in Neath Port Talbot's consultation.

To conclude, Dirprwy Lywydd, our benches believe that local authorities should implement referendums if they are proposing council tax increases over 5 per cent. This is not to punish local authorities, rather it is to protect them from the cuts and ensure that they are funded adequately whilst ensuring the public have their say. At the end of the day, we need our local authorities to be sustainable without continued expectation for hard-working families to fund huge shortfalls. Sadly, under the current system, this simply doesn't look like it will be a possibility. Diolch. 

Councils across Wales have been forced to do more with less, stretching every pound to keep essential services running. That's why, during the budget negotiations we had, I did manage to secure the funding floor. And I just really want to talk in my contribution very briefly about this, because it was something that I heard from the councils that I spoke to, from every political party, how important it is to have a funding floor. It's the first time, I understand, in six years that this has happened, and whatever the rate it's set at, it seems a much, much fairer way to me in order to ensure that councils actually know the income that they’re getting. That is a safety net, ensuring much more stability for local investment and for public services. In this budget, we’ve seen councils, from Ynys Môn to Monmouthshire, Conwy to the Vale of Glamorgan—nine, in total—getting more money because of that budget floor. Additionally, within the budget agreement we’ve managed to get £5 million for extra play facilities, £5 million to help our leisure centres, as you said, Cabinet Secretary.

But I’m really just going to finish with this really precise question, which I think has been raised a number of times in the contributions so far, and that is: will the Government please review the funding for local authorities and talk with them, because they are the experts around what is a fairer way of actually ensuring they have the funding in place? Because it sounds to me like a funding floor is the most obvious, but I’m not the expert, and I really feel it’s important that our services to all of us are run and delivered by our local authorities. We’re very lucky to have such committed people in those local authorities, but they absolutely do need fairness and security and a much fairer funding way forward. Diolch yn fawr iawn.

I welcome this first budget where a Labour Government in Wales can work with a Labour Government in the UK. It was a huge relief when a return to investment in public services was announced by the Chancellor, when funding announced for services in England is also passported to devolved Governments as previously did not happen either.

The scars of the last decade and a half of cuts cannot be healed overnight. It’s incumbent on all of us to ensure that the UK Government succeeds in its task of national renewal, because only with this can we ensure that increased funding continues long term, which we need to have in place for our public services. It will take a while to rebuild and grow what people need, to establish childcare settings, and to recruit, to get those roads fixed, but I’m hopeful that people will start to see and feel a difference in their everyday lives.

We will also have to deal with a lot of roadworks this summer. After asking for funding for highways at every budget over the last three years, I’m pleased to see not only an extra £25 million for the strategic road network, but also significant investment now, increased to £120 million over two years, to have a proper programme of maintenance and resurfacing for our local highway network.

I welcome that the Cabinet Secretary for Finance clarified in the last budget debate that the additional capital investment will be cost-neutral to local authorities and there is revenue to cover that cost of borrowing, which is really important. I am concerned, though, that the governance of funding will involve the establishment of a programme board consisting of members from the Welsh Local Government Association, the County Surveyors Society Wales, the Welsh Government and the corporate joint committee transport committees. I just think that councils need to have that funding delivered directly to them. We’re in March already; they’ve got a short window to get those roads fixed while it’s dry and it’s warm enough for that tar to set. So, I’m just hoping it can be devolved directly to councils rather than going through another committee.

I also welcome the trial of a £1 bus ticket for young people, as the chair of the cross-party group on public transport, and welcome that shared-value working. It’s really welcome to have that there. It was a request from operators to help grow the industry, as well as providing transport for young people, making it more sustainable going forward. But we need to work with stakeholders, including local authorities, just in case there are any unintended consequences before it’s actually delivered; that’s really important.

Regarding a funding floor, I totally accept that we need to have a basic level of funding for councils to operate now. They’ve had 14 years of delivering cuts, reorganising, restructuring, they’ve taken out all the fat, so to deliver just the basic level of services now, they need that basic level of funding. A funding floor of 3.8 per cent was really welcome, but it could do with being a bit higher, and I think that’s what we need to look at going forward. There have been talks previously about having a basic level and maybe a ceiling, but if you have a ceiling in place, then that could impact on those areas that are most deprived. So, you need to just bear that in mind going forward.

Our public services, they are the building blocks of the economy and they provide education, transport, people, and they employ so many people across Wales. They're our biggest employer in many places, with each county employing about 6,000 people on average. So, by investing in them, we are investing in our economy, basically, and putting money in people's pockets, as keeps being discussed. So, thank you very much.

And I call on the Cabinet Secretary for Housing and Local Government to reply to the debate.

Diolch, Deputy Llywydd. I just want to thank everybody once again for all the contributions today and their interest in this important issue. I've had discussions with lots of you throughout this time I've been Cabinet Secretary, and I know this is something you all care passionately about. It was really good to hear everybody put on record their thanks to all local authorities, their staff and elected members, and I think that's really, really important. It was also good to hear that everybody had welcomed the addition of the funding floor, which came in in negotiations with Jane Dodds, and I know that this is something that all local authorities discussed with me as well.

Whilst this is an increased settlement, I recognise that demand for services, alongside cost pressures, means that local authorities will still need to make those difficult decisions on services, efficiency and council tax in setting their budget. Nevertheless, as I said, this is a settlement that does build on improved allocations from previous years.

I think that there are a number of things—. I know Peter Fox mentioned Neath Port Talbot, it's good to see a former leader of a local authority taking an interest in other local authorities, but we did not set the notional figure of 9 per cent for council tax, just to clarify that.

On the formula, the core funding we provide to local government is distributed through a well-established formula created and developed in collaboration with local government and agreed annually with local government through our finance sub-group of the partnership council for Wales. This formula is free from political agenda and driven by data. It does balance relative need and relative ability to raise income so that authorities across Wales are treated fairly and even-handedly. There is an ongoing work programme to maintain and update the funding formula, including how the formula needs to respond to our work to make council tax fairer in Wales and to other changing policies and circumstances.

So, again, I'd like to put on record my thanks for all the work from local authorities that they do day in, day out. I commend this settlement to the Senedd. It reflects our commitment to public service and it continues to support local government across Wales to deliver for the people of Wales.

The proposal is to agree the amendment. Does any Member object? [Objection.]

The amendment?

Yes. Just checking to make sure. The first vote is on the amendment, not on the motion. Still an objection? [Objection.] Just making sure.

I will defer voting under this item until voting time.

Item 8 this afternoon is a debate on the police settlement 2025-26, and I call on the Cabinet Secretary for Housing and Local Government to move the motion. Jayne Bryant.

Diolch, Deputy Llywydd. Today I am presenting to the Senedd, for its approval, details of the Welsh Government’s contribution to the core revenue funding for the four police and crime commissioners in Wales for 2025-26. The core funding for the police in Wales is delivered through a three-way arrangement involving the Home Office, the Welsh Government and council tax. As policing policy and operational matters are non-devolved, the overall funding picture is determined by decisions made by the Home Office. We have maintained the established approach to setting and distributing the Welsh Government's component, based on a principle of ensuring consistency and fairness across England and Wales.

As outlined in my announcement on 30 January, the total unhypothecated revenue support for the police service in Wales for 2025-26 stands at £476.8 million. The Welsh Government’s contribution to this amount remains unchanged from last year at £113.5 million, and it is this funding that you are being asked to approve today. 

As in previous years, the Home Office has overlaid its needs-based formula with a floor mechanism. This means that for 2025-26, PCCs across England and Wales will all receive an increase in funding of 3.705 per cent when compared with 2024-25 before an adjustment for special branch funding. The Home Office will provide a top-up grant totalling £73.9 million to ensure that all four Welsh police forces meet the floor level.

The motion for today’s debate is to agree the local government finance report for PCCs, which has been laid before the Senedd. If approved, this will allow the commissioners to confirm their budgets for the next financial year, and I ask Senedd Members to support this motion

I have selected the amendment to the motion, and I call on Peredur Owen Griffiths to move the amendment tabled in the name of Heledd Fychan.

Thank you very much. I move the amendment.

The 2025-26 police settlement is yet another glaring example of Westminster's failure to properly fund Welsh police forces. Despite policing being a devolved matter in Scotland and Northern Ireland, Wales is once again left at the mercy of Westminster's underfunding and outdated financial models. The result? A chronic shortfall that forces local taxpayers to pick up the tab. Whilst Labour might boast about a 3.7 per cent increase in the total core support, bringing funding to £476.8 million, the rise is meaningless when measured against inflation, increased operational demands and the deep cuts of the past decade under the Tories.

The Welsh Government's contribution remains static at £113.5 million, offering no new money to address the crisis. Instead of properly funding our police forces, Westminster's strategy is clear: shift the burden on to Welsh households through the ever-rising council tax. That's why Plaid Cymru has included an amendment to this debate, which outlines the regret over the increase in police precept on council tax as a result of shortfalls in direct funding from Westminster to Welsh police forces. Police and crime commissioners have been left with no choice but to raise precepts to foot the bill that Westminster fails to pay fully. North Wales Police will see an increase of 6.44 per cent, while Dyfed Powys residents are facing an 8.6 per cent rise.

It is clear that the system is broken, with funding tied to a formula that ignores the realities facing our communities. This settlement is yet another reason why Wales must take control of its own policing and justice system. We are the only UK nation without this power, despite the 2019 Commission on Justice in Wales confirming that the current arrangement is unfit for purpose. To add insult to injury, the mayor of Manchester has additional powers over policing and justice policy not afforded to Wales. Whilst Scotland and Northern Ireland and even an English city shape their own policing priorities, Wales remains shackled to a failing system.

Plaid Cymru is clear that policing and justice should be fully devolved; only then can Wales ensure fair funding, deliver community-led policing and put public safety before Westminster's broken priorities. The people of Wales deserve a system that works for them, not one dictated by out-of-touch politicians in London. Diolch yn fawr.

I want to say at the outset that the Welsh Conservatives support the motion today, despite issues with the police settlement for 2025-26. We also welcome the UK Government's reaffirmation that policing and justice will not be devolved to Wales.

Our issue with the settlement stems from the fact that, despite an injection of hundreds of millions of pounds into neighbourhood policing from the UK Government, council tax payers across Wales will see police precepts double or triple. The three-way funding arrangement for policing in Wales relies upon contributions from the UK Government, Welsh Government and council tax payers across Wales. The UK Government has ensured that police forces in Wales will see a 3.7 per cent increase in funding for the next financial year, and this above-inflation increase is to be welcomed provided that the funding makes its way to the front line.

The Home Office funding has increased by 50 per cent over the past five years, whereas the Welsh Government's contribution has fallen by around 20 per cent, leaving council tax payers to foot the bill. My constituents, who are covered by South Wales Police, will see their precepts go up by 7.37 per cent, yet police numbers only went up by 0.8 per cent in the last 12 months and police community support officer numbers fell by a staggering 23 per cent. Before the Welsh Government and Plaid politicians point to the mythical austerity, between 2010 and 2024 police numbers in Wales rose by 8.2 per cent. The sad truth is that the Welsh Government are more focused upon what the Home Secretary calls breaking the links around policing and crime across England and Wales than they are on tackling criminal behaviour in Wales.

We have seen that Wales is the only part of the UK to have a rise in violence against women and sexual violence. The Welsh Government should focus their efforts on ensuring that police forces in Wales are adequately resourced to tackle violent crimes and hate crimes, rather than wasting money preparing for devolving policing and justice to Wales, something that the UK Government have ruled out. Hard-working families across Wales are having to fork out more for policing while the Welsh Government fail to fight their corner. I hope that the Cabinet Secretary will push the Home Secretary for additional funds for Wales, rather than additional powers. Diolch yn fawr.

Cabinet Secretary, the desire of the Welsh Government to protect front-line services and those delivering those services within our communities is to be congratulated. It's fair to say that that hasn't been the case, always, with the UK Government. Unfortunately, as you're well aware, the funding for the all-Wales schools programme, which has been provided by the Welsh Government when they stepped into the breach following cuts by the UK Government, was withdrawn in February of last year. Now, it shows the importance of this programme that three out of four of the police forces have continued with the programme, finding money elsewhere within their budget, and the fourth police force has amalgamated it with its neighbourhood policing, so they haven't got separate school officers within schools but they see it as part of the neighbourhood programme. So, all police forces see the importance of the link between schools and them.

A freedom of information request carried out by my office has also revealed that three of the police forces have seen a reduction in Welsh Government-funded PCSOs—another example of where the Welsh Government stepped in, despite policing not being devolved, following cuts by the UK Government, where the Welsh Government saw the importance of community policing. The forces must, though, be congratulated that they still see the importance of PCSOs, because they have kept their workforce—they've stabilised their workforce—but, of course, they've achieved that through reductions within other areas.

Cabinet Secretary, in July 2023 the four Welsh chief constables gave oral evidence at the Welsh Affairs Committee in Westminster. Dr Lewis, who's in the unique position of having previously been a chief officer at an English police force, described the additional complication when it came to funding of Welsh police forces—that they always had to ask where the funding was coming from, and then they had to follow this complicated thread. Now, he quite fairly said that the complication isn't insurmountable, but the complication is there nevertheless. The now-retired former chief constable of Gwent, Pam Kelly, described it as having to 'knock doors twice', which was, of course, a huge disadvantage for police forces in Wales.

In November 2023 the Welsh police and crime commissioners gave evidence to the same committee. All four of the commissioners commented that the funding formula of police forces in Wales needs to be reviewed. The funding formula for policing has to be addressed. Yes, policing is a reserved function, but policing cannot be left seeking out funding year after year, unsure what money they will receive year after year. Police and crime commissioners should not have to rely on the precept to fund their forces, and communities cannot keep funding forces on a postcode lottery of council tax rises. Diolch yn fawr.

I call on the Cabinet Secretary to reply to the debate.

Diolch, Deputy Llywydd. I'd like to thank all Members for their interest and contributions today. I recognise that, against the backdrop of competing demand and increasing costs, the settlement will require the four police forces in Wales to make tough decisions on services, efficiencies and council tax precepts, which a number of Members have raised today. Unlike in England, we have retained the freedom for Welsh PCCs to make their own decisions about council tax increases. Setting the precept is a key part of the PCCs' role, which demonstrates accountability to the local electorate. All our police and crime commissioners have been consulting with their local communities on the level of local funding for 2025-26, and I know that they’ll be keenly aware of the cost-of-living pressures many households continue to face.

We all recognise the important work the police do for our communities across Wales. They’re a key part of an integrated public service, working with health boards, local councils and other partners as part of a joined-up approach to community safety in Wales.

Will you take an intervention on that?

Yes, Alun.

I'm grateful to you for that, Cabinet Secretary. You make very eloquently the point that the police are integrated into public services across Wales. Well, of course, they’re not, because they’re not a devolved function, and therefore you do have a structural rupture in Welsh public services. We all know that the police work well with local government, with the other blue-light services, all of which are devolved. Do you not agree with me that now is a good time to devolve the policing service to ensure that we can have the coherence of public services that you describe?

Diolch, Alun, for that intervention. We’ve been clear that policing should be devolved to Wales. It’s been advocated as long ago as the Silk commission and was reiterated by the Commission on Justice in Wales in 2019, and again by the Independent Commission on the Constitutional Future of Wales earlier this year. So, we do believe, and I do agree, that devolution needs to be phased. We accept that policing will not just be devolved immediately. For now, we’re discussing the devolution of youth justice and probation with the UK Government, which I believe would be a significant step forward.

Just to go back to the point around community safety that Rhys ab Owen had mentioned, community safety has been maintained in our 2025-26 budget. As well as providing nearly £16 million of funding for policy community support officers in Wales, which is a 3 per cent increase, that delivers funding over and above what’s available to forces in England. Despite this being an area reserved to the UK Government, we’ve continued to prioritise funding for community safety in areas devolved to us. And we continue to make clear our support for policing to be devolved, as I’ve said, so we can deliver against the needs, the priorities and the values of the people of Wales. So, I commend this settlement to the Senedd.

The proposal is to agree the amendment. Does any Member object? [Objection.] Yes. I will defer voting under this item until voting time.

Item 9 today is a debate on the general principles of the Legislation (Procedure, Publication and Repeals) (Wales) Bill. I call on the Counsel General and Minister for Delivery to move the motion— Julie James.

Diolch yn fawr, Dirprwy Lywydd. I move the motion. Today's debate follows the consideration of the Bill by both the Finance Committee and the Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee. I'm very grateful to the Chairs and members of both committees, and their support staff, for their interest and work on the Bill. I would also like to place on record my appreciation to the stakeholders and other interested persons who took their time to help develop the Bill before introduction, and those who gave evidence to the Senedd during Stage 1. 

The Finance Committee determined that they need not report on the Bill in light of the financial information we made available, and the Llywydd has determined that a financial resolution is not required for this Bill. The Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee laid their report on 14 February and the Senedd should of course be mindful of its contents today. At the end of this debate, you are asked to agree to the general principles of the Bill and to allow it to progress to Stage 2.

I'm pleased to see that the proposals in the Bill are welcomed by the committee in its report and I'm sure we will hear more from the Chair about some of the evidence received. I've written to the committee on the recommendations it made to Government, and I hope Members will understand if I focus on just a couple of the key points made in that report today.

The Bill codifies and modernises the Senedd's procedures for scrutinising subordinate legislation, and the committee has concluded that the Bill appropriately sets these out and supports the use of labels provided for the core procedures. The recommendations made by the committee on this part of the Bill are for the Business Committee, and we will see whether these are taken forward. If they are then the Government would wish to be involved in that process.

The committee also welcomed the provisions in the Bill on the publication and preservation of Welsh legislation. These provisions now reflect the current practice for Wales, but also formally confer functions on the King's Printer of Acts of Parliament, who is to be referred to as the King's Printer for Wales for that purpose. This is a suitable moment for me to take the opportunity to update Members and confirm that the relevant consent of the UK Government has been received in respect of those sections and Schedule 3 where this was needed.

Deputy Llywydd, turning back to the committee's report, they have recommended that we explain why we have not copied Scotland's arrangements, which involve the formal creation of the Office of the King's Printer for Scotland, despite that person also being in practice the King's Printer of Acts of Parliament. I've written to the committee to again set out my reasons. The Government, the King's Printer and the National Archives are satisfied that there are no practical differences that affect either the process of publishing legislation or access to that legislation. What we have done reflects the reality of the situation, and I am satisfied that the right approach is being taken in this Bill.

In relation to repeals in the Bill there is one particular aspect I would like to bring to the attention of Members. The Open Spaces Society take the view that the Bill should repeal sections 53 to 56 of the Countryside and Rights of Way Act 2000. That repeal was originally proposed in the draft Statute Law (Repeals) (Wales) Bill that we consulted upon in late 2023, but, for reasons I set out in the explanatory memorandum to the Bill, it was not subsequently included in the Bill on introduction. However, circumstances have now changed again and at paragraph 183 of the committee's report Members will see my evidence on this to them. Members will also see that I said I would be mindful to bring forward amendments at Stage 2 to reintroduce the repeal, but expressly said that I would do so only with the committee's support. Although the committee has not expressly stated that it would be content with these amendments, it has also not objected to them, and on that basis I am informing Members today that I intend to bring forward amendments at Stage 2 and the committee may then vote on their inclusion or otherwise. If any Member wishes to speak to me about this approach ahead of the Stage 2 proceedings I'm more than happy to hear from them, and I'm keen to ensure that, where we are repealing legislation, the Senedd is satisfied with the basis on which those repeals are being taken forward.

The committee also considered a couple of matters that are not part of the Bill, but nonetheless part of our legislation making processes. Recommendations 3 and 4 four stem from the committee's concerns about errors in subordinate legislation. Deputy Llywydd, let me be clear: the Government is fully committed to ensuring that legislation is easy to understand and certain in its effect. However, there are occasions when errors do occur. Whenever and however these are identified, the Government carefully considers the nature of the error and its likely impact. In some cases they can be left alone, in some cases a correction slip may be an appropriate remedy, or in others a formal amendment needs to be made. The committee is understandably interested in the timely remedy of these errors. There are a number of factors that determine when amendments are made. Therefore, whilst we do not accept recommendations 3 and 4, we are taking action on this. Before the summer recess the Government will lay an omnibus amending statutory instrument before the Senedd for approval. This will deal with amendments that need to be made to a number of statutory instruments in one go, rather than bringing forward a series of individual correcting instruments, as is the more traditional approach. Once that instrument has been made, I will then consider whether this is an effective and efficient method of addressing any future errors.

The committee has also asked about the impact on the Welsh language of our proposals to move away from the dual column format for the publication of printed and pdf statutory instruments. Our starting point is to improve the accessibility of the legislation in both languages, and is not to the detriment of either. Members will also be very aware of the proactive steps this Government is taking to develop and expand Welsh as the language of the law, and this Bill is one of those steps, of course.

Deputy Llywydd, I'm very aware that this is just a short summary of the Government's response to the committee's report. However, if the Bill does proceed today then it will be subject to further consideration in the Senedd at Stages 2 and 3. In order for that to happen, the Bill will need support from Members to proceed, and I very much hope that the Senedd will agree the general principles of the Bill today. Diolch. 

I call on the Chair of the Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee, Mike Hedges. 

Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer. Before I turn to the committee’s report, I would like on behalf of the committee to thank everyone who contributed to the committee’s consideration of the Bill, and to the Counsel General for sharing the Government’s response ahead of today’s debate.

The overarching aim of this Bill is to improve the accessibility of Welsh law. It seeks to do so in three main ways, as provided by the three parts of the Bill. As a committee, we welcome the broad aims of the Bill and believe that its three main purposes will have a positive impact on the accessibility of Welsh law. We believe that it effectively brings together the main procedures that apply to subordinate legislation, and sets out for the first time the functions for what is to be known as the King’s Printer for Wales. Its repeal provisions will also help ensure the law that is in effect is clear and accessible to all. For these reasons, the committee recommends in its report that the Senedd should agree to the general principles of the Bill.

I will now turn to some of the other recommendations we made in our report. As Members will be aware, more and more often recently the committee has highlighted errors in statutory instruments made by Welsh Ministers. As part of our scrutiny of the Bill, we considered whether it would be possible to require correcting statutory instruments to be made within a set timescale. This would help ensure that defective legislation does not end up sitting on the statute book for longer than it needs to.

While we acknowledge in our report that there may be limitations to what could be inserted into this Bill to enable such a requirement, we recommended that the Welsh Government should consider how provision could be made to require corrections to be made in a timely manner. We also recommended that every 12 months the Government should lay a report before the Senedd setting out the progress it is making towards correcting defective statutory instruments.

I note that the Government does not consider it to be appropriate for provision to either prescribe a timescale or place a general duty to correct statutory instruments in a timely manner, and has set out the reasons for this in its response. However, I acknowledge that the Government has committed to bring forward an omnibus amending instrument and will consider whether this is an effective and efficient method of addressing corrections, and we will also be considering this as a committee.

The committee also explored ways to enable fuller scrutiny of statutory instruments, and as a result made two recommendations to the Business Committee. We recommended that it should consider reviewing the merits of having a sifting committee to determine the level of scrutiny for statutory instruments, and should also consider introducing a procedure to allow for amendable ‘think again’ motions to statutory instruments.

The committee also made recommendations in relation to the Bill’s provisions around a King’s Printer for Wales. Unlike in Scotland, where the King’s Printer for Scotland exists as a separate role in law, the Bill will confer functions on the King’s Printer of Acts of Parliament, who will be known as the King’s Printer for Wales when exercising those functions. While the committee acknowledges in its report that there would be no practical differences in taking this approach, we did however believe that creating a separate role of a King’s Printer for Wales would ensure parity in status with arrangements elsewhere in the UK.

We therefore called on the Welsh Government to explain why the Bill does not mirror the Scottish arrangements in this way, and to set out any assessment of the financial implications of doing so. In response, the Welsh Government has said that it is satisfied that the right approach has been taken in the Bill, and, because it does not believe that the Bill should mirror the arrangements for Scotland, the Government will not be undertaking a financial assessment.

As a general point, the committee also recommended that the Government should conduct a post-legislative review of the Bill. We believe this to be something that should be done for all Bills introduced in the Senedd. The Government has said in its response that it cannot support a review of this Bill itself, because it sees the Bill as a vehicle to amend other legislation. However, it has suggested that the next Government and Senedd may wish to consider whether a review of new Part 2A of the Legislation (Wales) Act 2019, as inserted by this Bill—which restates the scrutiny procedures for subordinate legislation—would be helpful as part of any consideration of future legislative reform.

Before I draw my comments to an end, I would like mention one other matter. In its report, the committee noted the views of the Counsel General and the Llywydd that the consents of a Minister of the Crown were required for this Bill to be within legislative competence. The Counsel General told us in January that the Welsh Government was expecting to receive these consents before the end of Stage 1 of the Bill’s passage through the Senedd. I would therefore welcome any information the Counsel General is able to provide on this matter.

I hope the work the committee has undertaken will help inform Members’ consideration of this Bill today and over the next few months, should it proceed to the amending stages. I also hope that the committee’s report will help contribute to a wider debate about potential future reform to the Senedd’s scrutiny procedures.

From the outset, I want to make it clear that we on this side of the Chamber support the general principles of this legislation, and we will constructively engage with the Welsh Government during the legislative process. This Bill provides an opportunity to effectively tidy up the law in this area and, as a result, procedures should be clearer and more accessible in the future. As my colleague Mark Isherwood said at the start of this process, there is merit in this Bill in terms of completeness, accessibility and accountability, as it will bring together and formalise the procedural arrangements for making and publishing Welsh subordinate legislation and improve the accessibility of Welsh law.

Now, as we've just heard from the Chair of the Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee, the committee has done an excellent job of scrutinising this legislation at Stage 1, and I urge all Members to read their report. The committee has made several important recommendations in that report, which the Counsel General has referred to in her contribution this afternoon. Now, the committee has rightly argued that the Welsh Government should give further consideration to undertaking a post-legislative review of the Bill, and I want to echo that point. I'm a firm believer that all Bills should be subject to a post-implementation review of some kind, and this legislation should be no exception. Now, whilst the Welsh Government has accepted this recommendation in principle, I'm disappointed that the Counsel General does not share the view that the Bill itself will need reviewing at some point in the future. Therefore, I'd be grateful if she could tell us a bit more about the Welsh Government's position on this particular point.

The Bill also seeks to simplify the legislative process by providing labels to the three core scrutiny procedures that can be used in future legislation—again, an objectives that I believe everyone in this Chamber will support. As the Counsel General has said before, this Bill is largely a technical and administrative one, and I share the Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee's view that the descriptions of these procedures are clear and accurate.

Now, I appreciate that the Chair of the Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee has already referred to this, but I wanted to echo the committee's view on the increasing number of pieces of subordinate legislation that contain defects, and whether there should be some requirement in legislation to ensure that statutory instruments that aim to correct defective legislation are brought forward by Welsh Ministers in a timely manner. I note that the Government has rejected this recommendation. However, I would urge the Counsel General to reconsider the Government's position on this specific matter.

Recommendation 4 of the report calls on the Welsh Government to lay a report before the Senedd every 12 months that sets out the progress being made towards correcting statutory instruments that are considered to be defective. The Welsh Government has accepted in writing this recommendation, but I think that the Counsel General did say earlier that the Government was rejecting it, so perhaps she can just clarify that in her response, when she responds to this debate. And perhaps she could also tell us a little bit more about the omnibus amending instrument that she intends to bring forward to address certain errors in statutory instruments.

Now, there has also been some discussion around the idea of a sifting committee to decide on the extent of scrutiny for individual statutory instruments. The Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee are right to say that this would be a matter for the Business Committee, and, as a member of that committee, I hope we have the opportunity to consider this at some point before the end of this Senedd. Therefore, whilst this proposal for a sifting committee wouldn't be a matter for this specific piece of legislation, I certainly see merit in the Hansard Society's call for a sifting committee.

Now, in relation to the publication of legislation, I support the provisions in the Bill in respect of the King's Printer for Wales, and I'm pleased that the Welsh Government has now received consent from the UK Government to bring this section of the Bill within competence. The Bill does not provide for the creation of the King's Printer for Wales as a separate role, but I accept the Welsh Government's view that a separate administration is not needed.

Finally, I just want to briefly touch on repeals of Welsh legislation. The Bill brings forward a series of repeals to provisions that are no longer needed, and I very much welcome that. In the case of the Domestic Fire Safety (Wales) Measure 2011, for example, as the Counsel General has already said, building regulations have now superseded the Measure and it's no longer required. It's absolutely right that, therefore, when legislation is superseded by subsequent regulations or, indeed, other primary legislation, it's vital that the necessary repeals take place.

Therefore, Dirprwy Lywydd, in closing, I'd like to reiterate my party's commitment to constructively engage with the Welsh Government on this piece of legislation, and we look forward to the next step in the legislative process. Thank you.

There's much in this Bill to be welcomed but, in the time available to me, I would like to focus on those areas that we hope to improve through the various amending stages of the Bill. First of all, reference has been made to the title of 'King's Printer for Wales', which is created by this Bill. It's a title and a role, but not a job or a function, and I do think that that is a weakness at the moment. The constitutional committee of the Senedd 10 years ago called for the creation of a King's Printer for Wales. There was a King's Printer for Wales back during the Protestant reformation for a few decades, but we haven't had one since then.

The Government itself had brought a draft Bill forward, namely the Government and Laws in Wales Bill, about a decade ago, in setting out the Welsh Government's vision in terms of devolution at that point, and that did create a King's Printer for Wales that would be separate, and would have equality with the King's Printer that's existed in the case of Scotland since 1998. And in the case of Northern Ireland, the title used there is the 'Government Printer', and that's existed for a century, since the creation of Stormont.

Quite simply, we believe that Wales should be treated equally, in that there should be a separate role rather than just a separate title, and that follows common practice across the globe. Every Parliament in Canada has an official printer, every legislature has an official printer, and, unfortunately, the Bill in its current form doesn't create a specific office of printer to align with our legislative responsibilities.

The Bill does seek to provide greater clarity and accessibility in terms of the process of making subordinate legislation by renaming the various processes relating to subordinate legislation. I think there's an opportunity here to go further and to improve our ability as a Senedd to scrutinise statutory instruments. Subordinate legislation has become much more a core part of our democracy, and there is a void in terms of accountability at the moment. I do believe that we will be seeking Members' support for two ideas or two ways of providing the Senedd with greater opportunity to influence subordinate legislation. At the moment, we either accept or reject—those are the two options available to us. We want to propose methods that will, for example, provide an option for us to reject specific sections, in line with the pattern followed Australia, rather than having to repeal or reject the whole statutory instrument, so that the Senedd will be able to focus on specific sections that cause difficulties whilst retaining the broader policy objective.

The other mechanism that we will seek support for is the mechanism of conditional amendment, which will provide us with an opportunity to ask the Government to return with amended versions on the basis of an amendment to the proposal. 

Finally, we want to tackle this issue of correcting defects or errors. There is a Bill in the House of Lords at the moment that proposes an option of creating a window of some 40 or 60 days so that the Government can bring forward an amended version or a corrected version of subordinate legislation in order to correct any technical errors that have been identified, because, too often at the moment, errors are identified but we have to wait a very long time for those errors to be corrected.

So, those are the amendments that we will table during the amending stages, and we hope to garner support from Members and also, hopefully, support from the Government.

I should say at the outset of my remarks I'm grateful to the Counsel General for the way in which she addressed the issues that the committee put to her earlier this year, and also the way in which she has approached this piece of legislation. It is a piece of technical legislation—I accept that—but these things are important because they're important about how we legislate in this place and how Welsh law becomes accessible to people. We've heard the Law Commission—I think it was in their last report, nearly 10 years ago now—saying that the law in Wales is less accessible than the law available to citizens in any other part of the United Kingdom. Now, we have a Government committed to social justice. Now, there is no social justice to be found if people cannot access the law. The law is there to protect us and to enable us to achieve the rights that we have enacted on our behalf. But if people who administer the law don’t quite understand where the law sits, that is a really serious problem for all of us, no matter where in the Chamber we sit. So, I do believe that we need to look hard at how we legislate. In particular, over recent years, we’ve seen the increasing use of legislative consent motions both by this Government and by the Westminster Government. That means that Welsh law sits in different places. Now, the process, which has been led by this Government over a period of years, of consolidation has been a great innovation and has meant that we are able to make Welsh law more accessible to people. But the use of two Parliaments to routinely legislate for Wales on the same issue is a serious weakness in how we govern in this country, and we do need to look at all of those issues. I recognise that this Bill doesn't exist to do all of that today, but it does have at its heart an objective of increasing the accessibility of Welsh law.

The Counsel General, in her opening remarks, made reference to the legislation committee’s views on the King's Printer and the role of the King's Printer, which Adam Price has just referred to as well. I have to say, I do not understand why the Government is being sticky on this matter, because it appears to me that, whilst we started the process of devolution back in 1998 with very different, asymmetrical models of devolution, the process since then has been towards a more symmetrical framework for devolution. And I think the stability of the United Kingdom is better guaranteed by having very symmetrical models of governance across the whole of the kingdom, rather than having a Welsh fix on an English system. So, I do think that it's something that the Government may wish to consider in Stage 2 or a further amending stage.

Finally, on how we amend statutory instruments, statutory instruments are the way in which the Government has been increasingly legislating. There have been more framework Bills presented by the Welsh Government in this Senedd than either the last Parliament in Westminster or the Scottish Parliament. So, we're seeing more framework Bills passed here than in any other part of the United Kingdom. That means, as a Parliament, we are granting increasing power to the Executive, which can then be exercised in a relatively unchecked way. Now, if we are to exercise any level of scrutiny or a check on the Executive, then we have to increase the powers of this place to do that, and one way of doing that is through amending statutory instruments. The Welsh Government is not supportive of that at the moment, and I can understand why, and I can understand the difficulties of it, but we do need to look at how we legislate. I think it's one of those technical matters that most people prefer not to consider. But if we are passing increasing powers to the Executive without increasing our powers to scrutinise statutory instruments, through which the law we have passed is actually being implemented, then we have less control over the enactment of that law, and that is something that fundamentally weakens this Parliament. So, no matter what the answer to that conundrum is, for me, I would prefer to have far fewer framework Bills and far more detail on the face of the Bill, and Ministers not taking powers they do not require. We do need to look at how we administer and enact statutory instruments to ensure that we do have the powers held here in this Parliament and that we don't simply pass those hard-fought-for powers on to the Executive. Thank you very much.

Cwnsler Cyffredinol, I hope you don't take offence when I say that this might not be the most exciting of Bills, albeit Adam Price and Alun Davies have made a valiant effort to try and muster excitement surrounding the King's Printer for Wales and subordinate legislation. But what this legislation does do is tidy, it solves technical problems, it tidies up the statute book, it provides formal recognition for Welsh law and makes the publication more logical. I'm pleased that the legislation codifies how secondary legislation is scrutinised. It will make it far easier for people to understand the process, rather than just knowing what's slowly developed over the years.

Now, as Alun Davies mentioned, we all agree that good scrutiny leads to better legislation. How do you foresee the three new procedures will improve how secondary legislation is scrutinised, would give that greater opportunity for this Senedd to scrutinise secondary legislation, because they can be very important indeed? It was secondary legislation that enforced COVID lockdowns, for example. They can be life-changing. Therefore, there needs to be that opportunity to properly scrutinise them. Do you also believe that giving formal recognition to Welsh statutory instruments would lead to a greater number of them being published bilingually, which we aren't seeing at the moment?

I'm sure that we all here want to see a situation where legal aid and legal representation is available for everyone who needs it. However, that is not the situation, and it's unlikely to change any time soon. The law is complicated, very complicated, even for lawyers, let alone those unrepresented. And any work done by the Welsh Government to make the law more accessible can only be commended. I think I admitted to you before, Cwnsler Cyffredinol, how I was caught out around 15 years ago for relying on legislation published on the legislation.gov website that had been previously repealed many years beforehand. It just shows the complication, and just shows how we need to make it far more accessible.

As we are a fairly new legislature here in Wales, it is far easier for us to remove repealed Acts and to tidy up Acts than it is in England with the English statute book. How often do you foresee, Cwnsler Cyffredinol, that we'll see a repeal Act here in the Senedd, because I believe in Westminster they haven't seen a repeal Act in over 12 years?

I do think it's a shame that—. When Mick Antoniw was Cwnsler Cyffredinol, he mentioned publishing legislation in Welsh and in English side by side. I know there can be some developments in technology that will make the fact that we don't publish it side by side necessary, but I'm just concerned that not having the Welsh language side by side with the English language will make it far easier for the Welsh language to be ignored. How will you ensure that isn't the case?

And will you ensure that when the legislation is published that it is as accessible and as understandable to as many people as possible, especially those who are unrepresented and who are in a very vulnerable situation? Diolch yn fawr.

I call on the Counsel General to reply to the debate.

Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd. I'm very grateful to Members who spoke and will briefly respond to some of the points raised. I want to start by saying that I'm deeply distressed that you don't think this is an exciting Bill, Rhys. [Laughter.] I think it's a very exciting Bill, for this reason: for those of us who are parliamentarians at heart, actually having the right processes in place, processes that have the right names, that are easily accessible, that are understood by normal people, if you like, who are not perhaps as occupied every day with the doings of this place, is actually very important, and it's actually quite exciting to make sure that people can understand our processes without needing to refer to a thesaurus of some sort. I really do think the Bill does do that, and I'm grateful to Paul and Mike and others who have acknowledged that, because I think they just use the plain names in both languages for describing the procedure. So, I do think that it's an important Bill for that point, if no other.

I just want to address a couple of the points. I just want to confirm that we have all of the Crown consents that we require, so the Bill is good to go from that point of view. On the issue around a post-legislative review, our view is pretty straightforward: the Bill changes the processes and then its job is done. So, in effect, it won't have any effect after that. There is one insert into a previous Act that we do think should be subject to the legislative review, though, and we have responded in that way to the committee. So, it's just a very straightforward fact that, once we've changed the names of the processes and put that in place, its job is done. There is an annual review, though, of where we are on the accessibility of the law, and we can of course include anything that comes out of this Bill in that annual review. But, after the first year, it will have done its job. So, I think that's a pretty straightforward point of view from there.

On the timely correction of errors in statutory instruments, which I think everybody, pretty much, raised, I don't think that timeliness is the only factor that we need to consider. I would remind Members that errors can be identified at any point, not only by the committee when an SI is first made. They are actually often identified later on, and we have some litigation going on at the moment about errors in SIs that were identified long after implementation. So, there are other factors at play here. So, rather than amend the Bill, I want to take action to remedy the errors themselves and, as I said earlier, the Government will lay an omnibus amending SI before the summer recess to deal with a number of errors that need to be addressed at the moment. We can then look at the effectiveness of that. I know that the committee wants to look at the effectiveness of that as well, and I know that the Business Committee wants to. And if that works, then we would look to schedule that once a year, and that would solve the repeal problem as well, because we could do an omnibus Bill that tidied up the law, if you like. So, I very much hope it does work and I would very much want to recommend that. Indeed, I had a conversation with the Business Committee only this morning, was it? My days seamlessly blend into one. I think it was this morning, where we discussed with the Business Committee a series of things that we want to do about different types of legislation and how to deal with them, and that was one of the types of legislation under discussion.

On the sifting point, that's not a matter for the Government, that's a matter for the Business Committee, but I would just want to point out to Members that it is currently open to any committee to consider subordinate legislation laid before the Senedd, although it's rarely done in practice. I don't think it has been done in this Senedd or the one before. I'm also very conscious that Members are very frequently calling for the affirmative procedure, as its called at the moment, to be put into Bills as they pass through the committees, but actually when those are debated here in the Senedd, it's very commonly only the Chair of the Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee that actually contributes. So, I do think that a committee that looked at the actual merit of the SI and its content is not a bad idea, but it's not a matter for the Government, it's a matter for the Business Committee to take forward.

I just want to say that, from my point of view, the Government is not against amending SIs at all; it's about the process by which that's done and doing it in a timely way, as part of the passage of the SI in the first place. And, again, I think that that's a matter for the Business Committee to understand how that process might happen. [Interruption.] Yes, certainly.

Can I say how much I very much welcome that remark and your confirmation there that the Government would not object to amending SIs? Would the Government therefore be willing to enter into a conversation about how that is done? Because it might well be that, during the passage of this legislation, we have the opportunity to actually change the way that we do things, and I think that that is something that would benefit everybody.

Yes, Alun, I'm very happy to agree that. It's one of the things that we have discussed as part of the Business Committee discussion as well. And just to say that it would be part of the process of deciding which committee should look at a particular statutory instrument and what process it should follow to do that. And then just to say, I don't entirely agree with what you said about framework Bills, you'll be unsurprised to find, but nevertheless, sometimes it is very appropriate for quite a large part of policy to be put into a statutory instrument because it might change on a very rapid basis, and you don't want to have to repeal primary legislation on an ongoing basis. So, the Infrastructure (Wales) Act 2024 is a very good example of that. The big SIs being brought forward by my colleague Rebecca Evans have a lot of policy in them, necessarily, because they are to do with the way that companies might apply for infrastructure consent, for example. At the moment, they would all be referred to the LJC committee and a subject committee. I think that is something that the Business Committee could take on board. And I just remind Members that any committee can call an SI in to look at it, but it's not regularly done. So, I think there are other processes that we could take advantage of right now without having to put additional in place—I just wanted to make that point.

And then there are only two other points, quickly, I wanted to have a look at. On the dual column format, which Rhys ab Owen mentioned, we're in discussion with the King's Printer about this. We want to understand what recent research may be able to tell us about user behaviours and what the viable options for change are. The only formal assessment of impact we've been able to undertake at the moment is just the cost of the typesetting and the costs of producing the Bill in that dual format, but these are set out in the explanatory memorandum to the Bill and we will be keeping a close eye on that. The idea is absolutely to make sure that the Welsh legislation has equal force and is equally accessible, just to be really plain.

And then on the matter of the King's Printer, the Government has taken the view that we are simply reflecting the reality. This is a single person, in fact, and they act in different roles: they act as the King's Printer for Scotland, they act as the King's Printer for England or the UK, and they act as the King's Printer for Wales. I take the point that Adam was making, but in reality, it is actually one person—it's one job. So, I think we're just reflecting the reality of the situation. I'm open to a discussion about the way that looks, but we're just reflecting the reality of the situation as we find ourselves today. So, I think we're sticking with that for the moment, but I'm happy to engage in a conversation about that. Diolch.

The proposal is to agree the motion. Does any Member object? No. The motion is therefore agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.

And that brings us to voting time.

I see that we have a full house, so I won't ask if you wish to ring the bell. 

The first vote is on item 4: the Non-Domestic Rating (Withdrawal of Charitable Relief for Independent Schools) (Wales) Regulations 2025. And I call for a vote on the motion tabled in the name of Jane Hutt. Open the vote. Close the vote. In favour 42, no abstentions, 16 against. Therefore, the motion is agreed.

The next vote is on item 6: the debate on the final budget 2025-26. I call for a vote on the motion tabled in the name of Jane Hutt. Open the vote. Close the vote. In favour 29, 1 abstention, 28 against. Therefore, the motion is agreed.

The next vote is the vote on item 7: the local government settlement for 2025-26. We will vote first on the amendment to the motion. I call for a vote on amendment 1, tabled in the name of Heledd Fychan. Open the vote. Close the vote. In favour 28, 1 abstention, 29 against. Therefore, the amendment is not agreed.

I call for a vote now on the motion, tabled in the name of Jane Hutt. Open the vote. Close the vote. In favour 29, 13 abstentions, 16 against. Therefore, the motion is agreed.

Next, we come to item 8, a debate on the police settlement for 2025-26. And I call for a vote on amendment 1 tabled in the name of Heledd Fychan. Open the vote. Close the vote. In favour 12, 17 abstentions, 29 against, therefore amendment 1 is not agreed.

And I now call for a vote on the motion tabled in the name of Jane Hutt. Open the vote. Close the vote. In favour 45, 13 abstentions, none against, therefore the motion is agreed.

And that brings today's proceedings to a close. Thank you very much.