National Assembly for Wales

Good afternoon and welcome to this Plenary meeting. The first item this afternoon is questions to the First Minister, and the first question is from Mike Hedges.

Diolch yn fawr. Transport for Wales are developing plans for up to seven new railway stations for the Swansea bay urban area, and these form part of our plans to improve public transport in south-west Wales, which will be shaped by the regional transport plan that is currently being developed.

Thank you for that response. The Swansea bay and west Wales metro has had considerably less discussion in the Senedd and in the media than the Cardiff city region metro and north Wales metro. Transport is as important into the Swansea city region as anywhere else in Wales. Will the First Minister provide an outline of the up-to-date plan for the Swansea city and west Wales region metro? Can it include the railway stations, bus interchange sections, and where buses and trains can be co-ordinated to aid passenger movement? In my constituency, I’ve got a railway station—the only Transport for Wales railway station—and the bus stops about a quarter of a mile away, which is fine in the summer, not so good when it’s raining. Can it also include a programme of work to identify when each stage is planned to be commenced and completed? Again, I reiterate that this scheme is very important to the area I represent, and, may I say, to the area you represent, First Minister.

Well, diolch yn fawr iawn, Mike, and just to say I think you're right—I don't think the metro in Swansea gets nearly as much attention as the south Wales metro, and it absolutely should. So, thank you for bringing that to our attention. The good news is that this area has been selected as the first area to implement bus franchising, pending the adoption of bus franchising powers. And let’s not forget that, when we talk about metro, we’re talking about trains and buses, and it’s really important. But, as I mentioned, it’s really exciting that there is a plan being developed, that they’re going to improve the links between Swansea and Pembrey and Burry Port, including a new station at Cockett. It also includes a new rail link between Swansea and Pontarddulais, and possibly new stations at Pontlliw, Felindre, Morriston, Llandarcy, Winch Wen and Landore. So, all of that is exciting, but, obviously, the money has to come from the United Kingdom because they are responsible for these kinds of structural funds. So, obviously, we are having a conversation and a discussion with the United Kingdom Government, and Transport for Wales is developing an outline business case for those proposed railway stations. You asked lots of other detailed questions; it’s probably best if we get you a proper briefing on those.

Mike is right—I don’t think we talk enough about the transformational potential of the Swansea bay and west Wales metro project. Now, obviously, as the south Wales metro region starts to take shape, and we start to see projects come on grid—come on the track, if you like—people will probably look in the Swansea bay region quite enviously at those projects beginning. So, one of the things Mike hit upon, which wasn’t addressed, is the timescales and the time frames for some of these projects, which seem very fluid, to put it kindly. So, will you ensure that residents are communicated with around the timescales and the time frames for these works, so that they know when this potentially transformational project is due to be delivered?

Thanks very much. I know that the transport Secretary met with many Members from the region about the Swansea metro on 11 October. As I say, these are very much in development, and it’s important that they’re done by the local authorities working together. That’s the critical part of this, going beyond the immediate local authority area. So, on the timescale, first of all, we have to come up with a very detailed proposal, which is that outline business case that I talked about for those proposed railways stations. And then, in a sense, we have to pass it on to the UK Government. They have to pass it on to the UK Government with us, and it’s up to them then to get it into their programme. I know that those discussions are already happening. I think it’s probably also worth mentioning that Transport for Wales are also developing large-scale pilots for Swansea bay that will see the introduction of a fleet of hydrogen fuel cell buses, which is also something I hope you’ll welcome.

Following early discussions with UK Ministers, I envisage a very positive relationship with Great British Energy, Trydan Gwyrdd Cymru and our other energy delivery bodies, including Ynni Cymru. They are all trying to see how we can work together as we continue to drive forward renewable energy investment in Wales.

Okay. It's interesting that you include Ynni Cymru, and that's great. But we have to recognise that the public is very wary of renewable energy, even though it's much cheaper than gas. So, in my view, the public sector needs to lead the way on demonstrating just how fantastic the benefits are. Unfortunately, there just are a few examples of the excellent work done by Morriston Hospital and its solar farm, which is generating at least a third of its energy and saving them over £2 million already. All public sector buildings have been given a target of net zero by 2030. Talking to public sector organisations, you'd think they weren't even aware of it. So, how is Trydan Gwyrdd Cymru going to give greater urgency to the public sector to embrace modern technology, reduce their energy bills and meet their net-zero carbon targets?

Thanks very much. I think you're absolutely right to highlight the really good example that Morriston Hospital has demonstrated. They've had that using support from the Welsh Government energy service. So, for £5.7 million investment in that solar farm, they are managing to save about £0.5 million a year on bills. But, on top of that, they're saving a thousand tonnes of carbon a year. So, that's not insignificant. It is a really good model. We do have this model of invest-to-save, and I would encourage others to take up the opportunities that Morriston has given. It's probably important for us to underline the urgency of public sector bodies recognising that they do have a commitment to deliver net zero in the public sector by 2030. We've all been interested to see the Prime Minister today in Baku, in what is an important summit, also making a commitment to even more ambitious targets. The world is changing—you've got to just look at the climate around us to see that climate change is with us here and now. I'm very much looking forward to addressing the Future Energy Wales conference this afternoon, where, obviously, we'll be talking about our ambitions in relation to renewable energy in Wales.

Prif Weinidog, it's quickly becoming apparent that Labour's general election manifesto was not worth the paper it was written on. We were promised cheaper bills, but the energy price cap went up by 10 per cent last month. The £300 a month cheaper bills claim made by modelling firm Ember is said to be independent, but Ember was founded by Baroness Worthington, who was made a Labour peer by none other than Ed Miliband. But putting aside the fact that no-one can actually understand whether GB Energy is creating its own energy or not, can consumers expect cheaper bills under this Labour Government, or was that just another manifesto fib?

Look, at the moment, we are in a position where, actually, a war in Ukraine had an immediate effect on the bills—[Interruption.]—wait a minute—on the bills in our country, and there is something you need to do about that in terms of security of supply. And if you can do security of supply and address the climate issue at the same time, then that is the way to go. And that's why we do have very ambitious targets, and that we have actually delivered significant amounts in relation to renewable energy already. Of course, when you're able to predict then in the longer term—and you're quite right, it's not going to happen overnight—the security of supply issue and the vagaries of the market that influence that we'll be able to control because we're closer and they're under our influence now to control. That's why GB Energy, I think, is a really significant contribution, and I'm really pleased that the discussions between our Government and GB Energy are going very well.

Can I thank the Member for raising this question? I think that avoiding the grid, like Morriston Hospital, using direct feed, is really important. The standing charge in north Wales is one of the highest across the UK, and I’m told it’s because of the grid infrastructure. I welcome that, in Wales, social housing has been built and retrofitted with solar and battery storage, avoiding the grid, thanks to Welsh Government funding and policy to help with cheap energy as well. First Minister, I’ve seen major energy infrastructure happening in north Wales, including wind and solar farms and battery parks. The people would like to see the benefit of reduced bills as well as energy security. Do you agree, going forward, that GB Energy could develop the ethos of Trydan Gwyrdd Cymru in Wales to ensure community benefit from major planning developments in the form, perhaps, of section 106 funding grants to make their homes warmer and self-sufficient with renewable energy?

Thanks very much, Carolyn. Our policy is absolutely clear: we expect all new energy developments to provide local benefit, whatever the nature of the developer. Community and local benefits should be used to meet local needs and priorities, and we’re discussing with the UK Government how support from GB Energy, under the local power plan, can build on and amplify the 15 years of support for local energy in Wales. We’ve got a lot of experience here through the energy service and now through Ynni Cymru. We’d expect major projects as well to be developed through Trydan Gwyrdd Cymru and to make sure that there’s an understanding that the local contribution is necessary.

Questions now from the party leaders. The leader of the Welsh Conservatives, Andrew R.T. Davies.

Thank you, Presiding Officer. First Minister, your hundredth day in office is on Thursday, and you rightly at the outset of taking up the office highlighted bringing waiting times down as being of top priority for the Government and that all agencies of the Government would work to that effect. You’ve listed several initiatives that you’ve brought forward, the most recent of which is the 50-day challenge that the health Minister announced yesterday, about getting early discharge from hospital for those who are better served in their own homes or in a community setting, thus creating more bed capacity for elective surgery. Can you highlight to me at the end of that 50 days what type of waiting times we will see and what type of percentage of beds will be occupied by people who would be better off in a community setting, because, at the moment, nearly 20 per cent of hospital beds in some hospitals are occupied by people who shouldn’t be in a hospital setting but could be better treated elsewhere?

Thanks very much. You’re quite right—this is a very difficult nut to crack, I can assure you. I spent a lot of time trying to crack it. It’s not something unique to Wales; it’s something that people all over the United Kingdom are struggling with—people who are ready to be discharged from hospital but can’t, partly because of the fragility of the care sector, and that is difficult. Obviously, in Wales, we’ve increased the amount of money we pay to care workers. We introduced the real living wage, which has made a difference, and we spend considerably more on care in Wales than they do in England. That relationship between health and care is absolutely fundamental.

The 50-day challenge that the Cabinet Secretary for health has outlined I think is going to be a really critical part of what we do over this winter. What we know is that there are some bits of the system that work really well, and the plan here is to take the good bits and to roll them out—make them all do what we know works. There are some aspects that people do really well, other aspects that they don’t. How do we do that? It’s driving that challenge, making sure they know what they should be doing, when, and making sure that they drive that. So, obviously, getting people out of hospital will mean there are more beds for us to get on with planned care, but there’s also the planned care initiative, and the Cabinet Secretary has announced an additional £27 million or so to try and help with reducing the longest waits, and clearly we are very anxious to see those waits come down. It’s that focused attention, making sure that if they don’t deliver, they don’t get the money. It’s a very different approach, and I think that’s really important.

Thank you for the word soup, First Minister; I was looking for some real hard and fast targets, because in those 100 days since you’ve become First Minister, there have been an additional 9,000 pathways added to waiting lists here in Wales, there have been nearly 4,000 patients added to the 600,000 patients that are waiting for treatment in Welsh hospitals, and there have been nearly 1,000 patients added to the two-year wait, which you promised would be eliminated at the start of this year. So, I understand the pressures; we all understand that. I actually wish you well in your endeavours trying to bring these waiting times down, because at the root of all of these waiting time statistics are individuals. And, importantly as well, there are staff who are at their wits' end. So, I just ask a simple question: when the Cabinet are having these briefing papers, surely there's an outcome paper that says, 'If you do A, you will get B. If you do C, you will get D.' So, could you, in simple, layman's terms, say what exactly the figures will look like at the end of the 50-day challenge? People need respite, and the staff in particular need respite from the horrendous pressures they're facing. Give them some hope; give us those figures.

Well, thanks very much. First of all, look, I absolutely understand the frustration of people who are on long waiting lists. People are in pain, and it's our responsibility to reduce that. And there have been massive strides in terms of the longest waits. They've come down significantly. The longest waits have come down a lot from, certainly, when I first because the health Secretary. But you can't do anything unless the staff are there to do it. So, one of the things within my first 100 days was to make sure that we delivered an above-inflation pay award to the hundreds of thousands of people who work in the NHS who are actually going to carry out those operations, because the morale in the NHS is really important. That was within the first 100 days.

And of course, there are other things that we've achieved during those first 100 days: free school meals rolled out to all pupils in maintained primary schools; we saw Tata, working with the UK Government, that additional funding—£13.5 million; we had local investment in museums and libraries; broadband connectivity, £12 million there; we've seen a £1 billion investment in Shotton; we've had the all-Wales fracture liaison service, and that's just September. So, there's a whole load of things that we've achieved in the first 100 days, and it is, actually, important that we look at what we can do in future in relation to bringing those waiting lists down. That announcement will reap significant benefits and, of course, we're working on the actual figures, what difference will it make. If they don't make the difference, then they won't get the money. That's critical. And we're working on what happens next, can we look to the budget next year, for example, to do more and what can we expect for that.

I still haven't had a single figure from you, despite twice asking and wishing you well in your endeavours, because the consequences of the blockages in our health service were shown again down in west Wales, in Nantgaredig Rugby Club, where a player was left on the pitch for six hours because an ambulance could not come because they were tied up with other emergency calls or outside an A&E department. 

Now, it can't be beyond the wit of the First Minister and the Government to come up with some numbers so that people can actually have confidence—[Interruption.]—that you're not chasing a social media post. I heard the delivery Minister commenting then. Perhaps you'd like to stand up, delivery Minister, and tell us what you're delivering, because this Government isn't delivering a reduction in waiting times.

I ask you now for the third time: given the points that you have put forward in your first 100 days, of this £28 million, of this 50-day challenge, how can we have confidence that waiting times will improve and pressures will abate on our hospitals and primary care? As I said to you, 9,000 pathways have been added to waiting times, 4,000 patients have been added to the waiting times overall, and 1,000 patients, nearly, have been added to the two-year wait. The figures are going in the wrong direction, First Minister. We're knocking on the door of deepest winter; give some hope to our health workers and give some hope to the patients of Wales.

Well, we have seen the longest waiters coming down, and I can tell you, in relation to the 50-day challenge, that we're asking the teams to target the people who have been in hospital for the longest 25 per cent of the time. So, that's 350 people against the 1,500 or so in terms of delayed discharges. So, there are your figures and, obviously, we are holding the health authorities to account in relation to those kinds of targets.

Plaid Cymru leader, Rhun ap Iorwerth.

The First Minister herself, as a former health Minister, accepts that the NHS in Wales isn’t where it should be after 25 years of Labour-led Governments: the waiting lists; the need for interventions in health boards; and staff, of course, have to work in more and more difficult circumstances. They are the heartbeat of the NHS, and effective recruitment, the ability to retain talent, is crucial, with fair salaries at the heart of that. Last week, nurses rejected the latest pay offer made by the Labour Government. The Royal College of Nursing said this: 

'this fails to match the safety-critical nature of their work and the extensive skills they bring to the NHS.'

Does the First Minister have a plan to resolve this? And if there is a plan, what is that plan?

Well, we greatly value the work that our nurses do in Wales, in the NHS, and they do so much to help provide that life-saving and live-changing care for people in what you rightly say is a very pressurised environment, and that's why we were pleased that we were able to offer an above-inflation pay rise this financial year—a 5.5 per cent increase—which was the same thing as the other unions accepted in Wales. The 'Agenda for Change' staff were on that. And I think it is important that we look at how we've changed the number of people who are agency workers, so we're doing what the RCN asked us to do, to put more people into substantive roles, rather than paying agencies. So, all of that is improving, and, of course, we'll always be open to discuss, with the RCN, about how we can come to a conclusion with this very difficult issue. But, obviously, budgets are tight, 5.5 per cent is an above-inflation pay rise, and, of course, it is what we've offered to other people in the NHS.

We've had a description of what the Government says it has done, but, clearly, no plan, and I can't overemphasise how important it is that there is a plan now on pay, and on elements such as training and recruitment. The nursing agency bill, whilst it has come down a little, was still at a staggering £142 million last year. The RCN's 'Nursing in Numbers' report, published last week, tells us that that could pay for 4,677 full-time, newly registered nurses, and, if Labour fail to tackle the staffing crisis, that agency bill can only grow.

Now, I'm pleased that the nursing bursary has been extended for the 2024-25 academic year, though nothing beyond that, but, in what can only be described as a backwards step, Welsh Government has cut places on all nursing undergraduate courses for the first time in a decade. The number of nursing degree places agreed to by Welsh Government this year represents only between 50 per cent and 69 per cent of what health boards requested. Why has Government decided to risk making the staffing crisis worse by cutting student places?

Well, first of all, on the agency issue, the fact is that it's come down considerably—the amount of money we spend on agency—and the RCN have been very welcoming of the fact that that has definitely come down.

When it comes to nurse bursary, I think it is important to recognise that we have as many training places this year as were filled last year. So, if you think about how many came out last year, we're putting the same number in. So, you can have very ambitious targets. If you can't fill the number of people going in, because they're not applying for it, then, obviously, that becomes a problem. So, we're filling, we're providing, as many as were filled last year.

Where’s the plan to bring more people in? And why cap that number now, unless you feel that there's no hope in setting more ambitious targets for bringing new students in? Let me highlight more figures from the 'Nursing in Numbers' report. There are around 2,000 nursing vacancies in the Welsh NHS. That's why we need to bring more nurses in. Nurses in Wales are working more than 73,000 extra hours a week. No wonder the RCN say that workforce planning in Wales is under-researched and under-resourced. For years, Welsh Government didn't even publish statistics for the vacancy numbers in Wales, and they have failed to put a comprehensive and sustainable workforce plan in place.

Now, the Nurse Staffing Levels (Wales) Act 2016 was pioneering, but we can and should go further. We're still waiting, aren't we, for the statutory guidance around the Act that the RCN has long argued for, setting out how health boards and trusts should fulfil all their responsibilities under it. So, will the First Minister commit to strengthening the law on safe nursing staffing levels in Wales, so that the NHS provides an environment that is safer for patients and fairer for staff?

Well, thanks very much. First of all, the number of vacancies in Wales in terms of nursing is down significantly on where it was before. We obviously have recruited hundreds of new international nurses, in part because of the memorandum of understanding that we had with Kerala, which I was very proud to sign, and I met many of those nurses in the Diwali event that I attended last week. 

In relation to the nurse staffing level Act, a committee of this Senedd did a report into this—they took evidence from a number of people—and that committee report did not recommend extending the staffing level as was recommended by the RCN, and that was after hearing evidence from a number of sources, because we are keen to make sure that people work to the top of their licence. It is important that we use, perhaps, people who can help within the ward, who are not necessarily nurses, to do some of the work that releases nurses to do the work that only they can do. So, that is not something that was recommended by the committee and is not something that the Welsh Government is looking at at this point.

In September 2024, there were 1,497 cases where patients were admitted to a hospital bed more than 24 hours after arriving at emergency departments by ambulance. We have stated clearly to the health boards what our expectations are in terms of improvement, and yesterday a 50-day winter challenge for integrated care was launched in support of that.

Thank you for that response.

So, just to bring this down to people, last week a resident of mine was in touch to say that his partner had waited 36 hours in order to gain hospital admission. His partner spoke to the ambulance drivers and found that 11 out of the 12 ambulances in Carmarthenshire were actually waiting outside Glangwili hospital to admit their patients. This is a situation that all of us, I know, across this Siambr, see cannot continue. People are waiting in ambulances. People are waiting to be able to get into hospitals, and then people are waiting for ambulances to arrive to respond to them.

One of the key issues that we know is that we can't discharge people from hospitals as well, so we have problems at both ends of hospitals. In order to get people in, we need to discharge people, and that's about access and availability of social care packages. So, I just wondered: could you let us know how you are supporting local authorities here in Wales to be able to put social care packages together and have social carers ready to help those people to leave hospital? Diolch yn fawr iawn.

Diolch, and can I just say that waiting 36 hours is wholly unacceptable under any circumstance, and it is important that health boards are aware of that? I know that the health Secretary is working very closely, making it absolutely clear what our expectations are as a Government, and that's part of the reason why he's introduced this 50-day challenge.

We have a home-first policy, and it is important that there is an understanding of the need for health boards to work really closely with local government in an integrated system. We do have the regional integration fund, £144 million—£180 million now—spent to try and make sure that they're working together. That's not an insignificant amount of money. And one of the things that I introduced when I was health Minister was the care action committee, a very action-focused group, which was very practical in terms of how do we get health and local authorities to work together. At the beginning, we had to work out where the problem was, because some people would say, 'It's them not us.' 'Right, let's get some data. Let's get all the data in the right place.' All of that has now been sorted out. We know where the problems are. We've identified what is likely to work quickly. Those 10 'These are the things you have to do, and, if you're not doing them, explain yourselves'—that has to be done in this next 50-day challenge, and hopefully that will get the system moving. You're absolutely right; it's that relationship with local government, making sure those care packages are available, and some of that is about making sure that we have enough care workers in our communities, that we have enough reablement workers within our communities as well, helping people get back on their feet, so they’re not dependent on large care packages, but they’re actually able to get back and to work within their own homes. All of those things are constantly being discussed with local authorities through things like the care action committee.

I’m grateful to Jane Dodds for raising this question in the Chamber here today, because I’m sure far too many of us around this Chamber have similar horror stories to that which Jane Dodds just outlined. Indeed, one of my constituents, Mr Binns, shared with me his 27-hour wait in A&E whilst experiencing severe chest pains, and I’m grateful to you, First Minister, for acknowledging that that’s not acceptable and that we need to see that change.

As you’ve outlined in your response to Jane Dodds, there are systemic issues at play here, and the whole system needs a certain level of concentration and effort to change. But there is some good news and there are other organisations, whether they're third sector or private sector, who have the capacity and are willing and able to provide support and capacity to unblock some of these blockages that we’re seeing at the moment. But they’re sharing with me that they’re experiencing, here in Wales, some unique resistance to engaging with these other sectors, so that those blocks can be unblocked very, very quickly.

So, I wonder if you’ll commit today, First Minister, to make a statement that outlines Welsh Government’s commitment to working both cross-sector and cross-border to ensure that capacity is created, so that patients aren’t waiting for these undue lengths of time in A&E.

Thanks very much. I’m not aware that there is that difficulty, and if you’ve got any evidence to support that, I’d be grateful if you could send it on to the Cabinet Secretary, because what we know is that, actually, where we do need to work cross-border, that works reasonably well, and also in relation to the third sector, that is an important aspect of what we do and that’s why we’ve got this regional integration fund, which is really supporting people, in particular the third sector—I think they have a ring fence within that of about 19 per cent or so. So, this is not an insignificant amount of money, and these are people who are doing incredible work on our behalf.

The thing we’ve got to constantly remember is that the demand just keeps on going up. In September, we saw the second highest daily numbers of red calls reported since we started the particular reporting process that we have now five years ago, so it is important to recognise that. And one of the things I’m sure that will happen in the next few months is that we have this ministerial advisory group, who are from outside of Wales, who can come in and have an objective view on it. We’ve got Dr Tara Sood, who is an NHS England national speciality adviser for same-day emergency care, and Adam Roberts, who is currently director for urgent and emergency care operational insight. So, they can come and tell us what we could be doing differently. But, frankly, on some of these areas, we’re actually doing better than England, believe it or not.

We are taking action to reduce the longest waiting times. Demand for neurodivergence services continues to grow. Later this month, multiple agencies will come together for a national rapid service redesign event. This will lay the foundations to secure sustainable services that will meet children’s needs.

Thank you for that response. Following a freedom of information request, I have been staggered, truth be told, by the waiting times experienced by children in north Wales. Sixty-two per cent of all the children referred for assessment have had to wait over a year for that assessment. Fifty children have been waiting over four years, and one child has waited over five and a half years for that assessment. Now, that is longer than the secondary school career of most pupils. These children are clearly being let down—yes, by the health board, but also, if I may say, by your Government, for failing to address the situation. So, how soon will we see this change, because these are some of the most vulnerable children in Wales and they are tired of waiting, First Minister, and they deserve better?

No, I understand, and I understand how frustrated some of those children and their parents will be. I think it’s very important for us to consider the context that we’re working in. We’ve seen an increase of 59 per cent in demand for ADHD treatment between 2018 and 2026. So, that is extremely high demand, and evidently it's taking us some time to increase the number of people, because additional funding has gone in—an additional £6 million has been invested. I know that Betsi, for example, is using the additional funds that they receive to support the transition of children with ADHD from primary to secondary schools. So, it's not just about assessment, but some of this funding is going to ensuring that they can have the care that they need when they go through these important transitions in their lives. So, it's not just a case of investing in assessments and so on, it's wider reaching than that.

It's fair to say I agree with Llyr Gruffydd. In Aberconwy, I'm repeatedly now being told that children are having to wait a considerably long time. I raised this issue a year ago and Lynne Neagle, at the time, mentioned that it was not correct, that people were not waiting over 12 months, even. Well, we've seen that health boards across Wales have reported significant rises in referrals to neurodevelopment services. In the Betsi board, the waiting list for ADHD or autism spectrum disorder assessments surged from 2,753 in February 2022 to 5,163 by December 2023, the highest in Wales. So, with this in mind, First Minister, what are you thinking of doing to bring these numbers down quickly, and will you consider collaborating with English treatment centres to reduce these waiting times?

Well, if you think England has got this cracked, you'd better take another look, because the fact is that they've also seen a massive surge in the number of people who are requiring assessments and treatments—

I'm glad that Dawn Bowden finds this funny.

—in relation to ADHD. Can I tell you that one of the things that we're trying to do, because of the massive surge that you talk about, is that, actually, we're going to have to think about how we do things differently? Because just doing more of the same is clearly not going to get us to where we need to be. So, we need to rethink what the pathway looks like, and that's why we've got this rapid service redesign event that's happening at the end of this month. It's going to bring together 180 people from all the sectors, and people with lived experience, to find solutions in terms of reducing waiting times and, more importantly, securing sustainable services. The NHS Wales Executive has also undertaken a review of children's neurodevelopmental services. So, we recognise there's a problem here, and the problem is, if anything, more significant in England, but we are trying to see how we're going to do things differently in the future, because more of the same in relation to this clearly won't be able to address that massive surge in demand that you yourself pointed to.

We have a long-standing and successful commitment to the Welsh way of social partnership working. We've been promoting this across Wales through a series of engagement events and conferences, as well as online learning packages and other resources.

Thank you, First Minister. I must begin by declaring an interest as a proud member of Unite the Union. I really welcome the Welsh Government's social partnership approach and your work, alongside the UK Government, promoting the new landmark Employment Rights Bill. Unfortunately, though, as I've highlighted in the Chamber before, there are fire-and-rehire practices still going ahead in Wales as we speak. Unite the Union are currently in dispute with Oscar Mayer in Wrexham, as the firm are threatening to dismiss anybody who does not sign a new contract that could see them losing up to £3,000 a year in paid breaks and premium bank holiday pay. This would impact on 800 staff members, and I believe that they have sacked three employees over the weekend, which now brings it up to 35 employees. Will you join me in condemning Oscar Mayer and their treatment of workers in Wrexham? And what action will you be taking to stress to the company that such appalling practices have no place here in Wales?

Thanks very much, Carolyn, and thanks for your work on this and for drawing it to the attention of the Senedd. I was very grateful to have been invited to address the Unite conference, the first policy conference for Wales, yesterday. And there, I was able to express again our serious concerns in relation to the company. We've asked for a meeting with the company, so that they can provide a full account of the current situation. I think that imposing inferior terms and conditions on workers through the tactic of fire and rehire is absolutely not consistent with our values of fair work and social partnership.

The fact is, however, that it is the UK Government who are in the position to change the legal framework in relation to fire-and-rehire practices, and I'm really pleased to see that that is something that will be addressed in the new Employment Rights Bill. And obviously, we are speaking very closely with them about that.

For the record, I receive no donations from the trade unions. First Minister, you will be aware, I'm sure, that, despite recent attempts by this Government to sell social partnership as a unique Welsh way of working, it has been a cornerstone of European economies since the second world war, without the need for legislation to enforce it. Indeed, for example, in England, Scape, which was established almost—

If we could have some silence, please, to hear Joel James's question. We're struggling to hear at the moment. Thank you, Joel.

Thank you, Llywydd. Indeed, for example, in England, Scape, which was established almost 20 years ago, has developed a social partnership portal for the construction industry, which allows buyers, suppliers and customers to quickly and easily see their local and national supply chains and brings forward a greater diversity of suppliers, as well as providing an opportunity to source contracts with social enterprises right across the country. So, as you can see, First Minister, we are lagging far behind. I'm not aware that any such similar portal exists in Wales, created by the Welsh Government, but I am aware of the great deal of time and expense that has been spent on having meetings and creating this legislation. Is there a social partnership portal in Wales, First Minister, such as the one developed by Scape, and if not, why not? Thank you.

Well, thanks very much. We have lots of portals in the Welsh Government, where people can go and see what is available to them. And it is important, of course, that we encourage suppliers, in particular people like Airbus, for example, who are very keen to make sure that we get more Welsh suppliers to help them with their supply chain. So, some individual companies will do that and, obviously, those companies, if they work in social partnership, as a company like Airbus does, then we would encourage people and companies to go to those particular portals as well.

We are investing more than £30 million this year in the new Warm Homes Nest scheme to help tackle fuel poverty. We are also continuing to fund the Fuel Bank Foundation to support delivery of a national fuel voucher and heat fund scheme for those in fuel crisis.

Thank you, First Minister. The heartless decision by the UK Government to end the universal winter fuel payment will push many elderly people into fuel poverty this winter. Thankfully, the Welsh Government will receive an extra £1.7 billion via Barnett. This additional funding will now grant the Welsh Government the flexibility to address the forthcoming crisis. So, First Minister, will you commit to using a small proportion of this additional funding available to the Welsh Government to help those who will be forced to choose between heating and eating this winter?

Well, thanks very much, Altaf. We are intensely aware of how many people are struggling to pay their bills, and how the costs of energy have gone up. What I can tell you is that officials are fully engaged with the Department for Work and Pensions to drive up the numbers of those eligible to claim for pension credit. And what I'm pleased to say is that, as part of that, 6,600 people who are eligible in Welsh households are going to receive a letter asking them to apply for the benefit. If they apply for the benefit, and they are eligible for the benefit, obviously they will be able to get automatically that winter fuel allowance. That is something I hope you will welcome. And that, of course, goes on top of our other offers as a Welsh Government, like the Warm Homes Nest scheme and free advice for people through the Energy Saving Trust, for example.

The Welsh Government continues to support the most disadvantaged communities in Wales with the cost of living, investing almost £5 billion between 2022 and 2025 in programmes that help keep money in people’s pockets. Last month, we announced a further £1.5 million for warm hubs, to keep people safe and warm this winter.

Diolch, Prif Weinidog. The Welsh Labour Party exists for equality of opportunity and greater equality of outcome, to tackle the inequality in our society, which is still far too wide. But after 14 years of the previous UK Tory Government's austerity, public services are struggling and under great strain, and families in our most disadvantaged communities face a daily challenge to make ends meet, with far too many feeling unheard and, often, neglected and ignored.

The Bevan Foundation's snapshot of poverty this autumn found one in seven people across Wales are often or always struggling to afford the essentials. These circumstances, First Minister, feed alienation and allow politicians and political parties with a regressive bent to peddle populist and simplistic views in search of political advantage. Would you agree that, with the next Senedd elections not far away, it is vital that our Welsh Labour Government, and other progressive political parties, listen to and find new ways of addressing these issues and concerns? We must do this to improve public services and the standard of living of the most disadvantaged, because it is the right thing to do, and to ensure further progressive politics in Wales post 2026.

Thanks very much. You're absolutely right, John, it is our responsibility to stand by those who are struggling, and there are a lot of people struggling today with the cost-of-living crisis. It hasn't gone away. It's now been baked in, and that's very difficult for people to be able to manage. That's why that significant contribution that our Government is putting in to support those who are struggling most is something that we should draw attention to. We've got our single advice fund, and that's helped more than 280,000 people from our most disadvantaged and marginalised communities to claim an extra £137 million. This is big money, just by telling people, 'Just go and claim what you're entitled to.' We've also got things like the council tax reduction scheme—again, this is something that doesn't exist in England—where you don't have to pay council tax. Over a quarter of a million people in Wales benefit from that.

And also, I think it's really important to note that we're not just concerned about those who are not working; we're also worried about the working poor. There are a lot of those around these days, and it is important that they recognise how we're stepping in to support them as well, especially those, perhaps, with young families. The free school meal to all primary learners I think is important. There's the fact that, in Wales, as well, you get free bus passes if you're over 60. And something that everybody takes for granted in Wales today is the free prescriptions. Well, don't take it for granted. This is something that seriously costs us a significant amount of money, but is there to support and protect everyone in Wales. I think it's really important that people understand it's a Labour Government that has made that happen—it's a Labour Government—and that's not happening across the rest of the United Kingdom.FootnoteLink

Local authorities continue to manage their in-year budgets and develop future work plans. Recently, Audit Wales has undertaken work on the financial sustainability of each authority.

Thank you very much for that response. 

'Austerity is over'—those were your words in Plenary a couple of weeks ago. It left many of us speechless, but I'm sure that is nothing compared to the reaction it provoked among colleagues in local government. Take, for example, the Labour-controlled Caerphilly County Borough Council, where the decision to mothball the local authority's beloved Tudor mansion, Llancaiach Fawr, has been taken. They even contemplated shutting down the meals on wheels service, which caters for some of the most vulnerable residents in the county borough, until the outcry grew too loud. In the meantime, separate proposals to slash school transport and library provision have been announced. These are some of the difficult and austerity-driven decisions that are being made. So if austerity is over, First Minister, when will my constituents start to see it and feel it? When can we expect local government to have the cash it needs to bring local austerity to an end? Just saying it doesn't magically make it happen.

Thanks for that, but you may have noted that the budget is only about two weeks old. It does take a while to come through the system. What you will have seen is that we have had the biggest increase in real terms since the start of devolution. So it will come through, it will make a difference, there will be more money, and of course as a Government now we're trying to work out where exactly that should be prioritised. But in reality, of course, that doesn't hit the ground until April, as you're very well aware as somebody who knows how these budget systems work. So, of course local authorities are making their case to us, as are many other organisations in Wales, and we are very aware of the kinds of pressures they're under, particularly the kind of increase in demand that they're having to deal with, particularly in terms of care and children in care and housing, and all kinds of other areas. So we're very well aware that they are under pressure, but in Wales, they have not seen anything like the cuts that they've seen in England in local authorities over recent years.

I thank the First Minister.

The next item is the business statement and announcement, and I call on the Trefnydd to make the statement—Jane Hutt.

There has been one change to today's agenda subject to suspension of Standing Orders. The Cabinet Secretary for Transport and North Wales will lead a debate on remembrance. This is instead of a planned oral statement. Draft business for the next three weeks is set out on the business statement and announcement, which is available to Members electronically. 

Can I call for a number of statements today? The first is a statement that's required from the Cabinet Secretary for Health and Social Services in relation to the departure of the director of finance at the Betsi Cadwaladr University Health Board. Many people in my constituency are absolutely outraged, frankly, that the director of finance is going to leave on favourable terms towards the end of the year, despite the fact that there were shocking things identified in the Ernst & Young report, which found that there was false accounting, irregularities and deliberate errors that were being made by individuals in the finance team. Frankly, it is shocking that people are allowed to depart when they should have been sacked. This is over two years since this report was made available to the board. It's a board that is in special measures under the control of the Welsh Government, and frankly, that you should be allowing this is totally unacceptable. So can we have a statement this week from the Minister responsible for the special measures arrangements so that we can hold the Welsh Government to account for its failure to act on this matter?

Can I also call for a further statement from the Cabinet Secretary in relation to the need for a frequent Act FAST campaign in relation to the symptoms of stroke? The Stroke Association was promised by the Welsh Government last October that you would be running a campaign in order to promote awareness of the face, arms, speech and time issues associated with stroke so that we could prevent people from coming to harm. They're getting on with this in other parts of the United Kingdom, but Wales seems to be dragging its feet, and there's no sign of any particular campaign taking place in the near future. So can we have an update on that and what the Welsh Government is going to do to address it? Thank you. 

Thank you very much, Darren Millar. As you know, of course, the matter of the resignation of the executive director of finance is an employment matter and it's therefore a matter for the Betsi Cadwaladr health board to respond to.

We're very aware of the importance of the Act FAST stroke campaign. Of course, we have our stroke pathway in Wales, which is well established and proven in terms of evidence, but, clearly, the importance of action in terms of stroke response is key. That's something that health boards will have to respond to, and, indeed, we support.

I would like to ask for two statements if I may, Trefnydd. First, I would like to ask for a statement from the Cabinet Secretary with responsibility for health. Following the publication of the written statement yesterday on the 50-day challenge to help patients to leave hospital and to improve community care, there are so many questions that Members have on this. We would like the opportunity to discuss this in the Chamber, particularly given the challenges that we've heard about in terms of local authorities.  

I'd also like to ask for a statement from the Cabinet Secretary with responsibility for housing on reinforced autoclaved aerated concrete in private housing. I did raise this issue with the First Minister last week, but there are ongoing problems in terms of those who don't have the finances to pay for repairs to their home, particularly when they are in an estate where there is social housing and they share a roof with a house that is in the care of Trivallis, for example, in my region, but also belongs to a priate homeowner too. We need clarity on this. There is funding available in Scotland, and I am concerned that those suffering because of RAAC are being forgotten by this Government. I would like the opportunity to have a debate in the Senedd in terms of what the Welsh Government is doing to support them. 

Thank you very much for your very important questions. 

Thank you particularly for raising again—it's been raised this afternoon—the NHS 50-day challenge, which is important. I've already shared with the Cabinet Secretary for Health and Social Care the request to move this forward into an oral statement. There was a written statement, of course, on the day it was announced, but the Cabinet Secretary would be very glad to have an oral statement on this. It's really important that we recall that this is a 10-point action plan to support more people who've experienced long delays in hospital to return home. It is a challenge for every part of Wales to adopt the 10 things that we know make the biggest difference in discharging patients safely, making the whole system more resilient and able to work more smoothly. So, we will, I'm sure, with the Business Committee's support, table that for an oral statement as soon as possible. 

The Cabinet Secretary for Housing and Local Government will have heard your question as well about RAAC in private housing. Obviously, this is something that relates to all private housing—owner-occupied and private rented sector. I'll certainly discuss with the Cabinet Secretary the opportunity to update and to respond to that question.    

Please could I ask for two statements? The first one is in regard to the closure of Natural Resources Wales managed visitor centres, which we recently had a petitions debate on. Visitors, community groups and organisations interested in running them are extremely concerned that the NRW board, at a meeting last week, agreed to close them under the 'Case for Change' without discussion or consultation with the interested parties. Please could the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Secretary give clarity, as he reassured us during the debate that they would not close and that consultation would take place? 

The second is regarding having to renew blue badges for people living with lifelong conditions every three years. I know this has been raised and debated many times, but after meeting and hearing the heartbreaking distress of people affected, the trauma of having to fill in forms every three years, saying how ill their young person is who are never going to get better, when they have little time to concentrate on the task and are already living stressful lives, it appears to me that this is actually a social justice issue that happens to be delivered by transport. So, please would you meet with me and the Cabinet Secretary for transport to discuss how this can finally be achieved?

Thank you very much, Carolyn Thomas. They’re also very important questions.   

Just in terms of your first question on NRW’s case for change, they have made that final decision in relation to the provision of retail and catering services at their three visitor centres. And our understanding is that NRW’s commercial team are engaging with local businesses and community groups as they explore the provision of opportunities for organisations to manage these services. I also understand that NRW have received informal expressions of interest from local businesses and community groups in taking over responsibility for the running of the retail and catering services at the centres. So, I know that—. I will share this, of course, with the Deputy First Minister and the Cabinet Secretary for climate change, but we expect engagement with interested parties to take place, to ensure there’s limited disruption to the services. And there are three public engagement sessions due to take place on 25, 26 and 27 November, at which formal expressions of interests will be opened. Just to make it clear, Llywydd, NRW will continue their management of these sites, and the centres themselves will remain open for walking, biking, play areas, car parking and toilet provision.

On your second question on blue badges, this is something on which I’m sure there would be willingness to meet with the Cabinet Secretary. And as you say, it is a matter that has been raised in this Chamber. It is a matter for social justice. It’s a matter in terms of local government responsibilities. It is very much a cross-Government matter. And, of course, we ask blue badge holders to reapply every three years, to maintain the integrity of the scheme, and ensure that those who are eligible have access to it. And that does include the need to reconfirm identify, proof of residence at each reapplication, and it can be challenging, the application process; we understand that. And, of course, local authorities are there to help. There have been many reviews of the blue badge scheme—reviews that have also been undertaken in the Senedd—focusing on eligibility, administration and enforcement. I think that we must see that it is something where there are major challenges for people living with particular impairments, such as degenerative conditions. In terms of better mobility and greater independence, blue badges are crucial, so we will take this forward in terms of looking at where we are in terms of understanding and evidence.

I would also like to call for an oral statement here by the Cabinet Secretary for Transport and North Wales on blue badge parking permits, because people are being hurt. They’re not being told that they can appeal by local authorities. When they come to Members of the Senedd and are told they can, and refer it, they’re then faced with a 15-page form that many struggle to deal with.

During questions to the Cabinet Secretary for Housing, Local Government and Planning in July, I spoke of the grave inconsistencies in efficiencies and the injustices arising from the Welsh Government’s blue badge scheme in Wales guidance for local authorities, and referred to the Senedd petition to make blue badge applications lifelong for individuals who have a lifelong diagnosis, submitted by Stronger Together for Additional Needs and Disabilities North Wales community interest company, who told the cross-party group on disability that they had discovered through research that local authorities were either unaware of lifetime awards, or had a different understanding of what it meant. After meeting STAND North Wales earlier this month, when families discussed their experiences and expressed the significance of a lifetime award for them, the civil servant in the Cabinet Secretary for transport’s team, with responsibility for blue badge policy, stated to them that he will now spend some time working through the issues that they raised, and discuss them with the Cabinet Secretary so that Welsh Government can respond in detail to them. But this critical issue merits more than that. It requires a statement to the full Senedd, and an opportunity for Members across the Chamber to question the Cabinet Secretary regarding this.

Briefly, if I may, I also call for a statement by the Minister for Mental Health and Well-being on the inclusion of deaf people in the 10-year mental health strategy for Wales. Yesterday the All Wales Deaf Mental Health and Wellbeing Group—a group of deaf and hearing professionals and charities—wrote to the Minister, saying they're keen to ensure that deaf people in Wales are really and truly part of the new mental health strategy for Wales. Wales is the only UK country without a deaf mental health service, and yet, deaf people are twice as likely to experience a mental health problem than hearing populations. They met as a group with you and other Ministers in October 2022, and have been told on several occasions to wait for the new mental health strategy. But, at this point, they are nervous that deaf people may be left behind, which has happened so many times before. Finally, during the consultation phase of the draft mental health strategy, deaf people in Wales were not identified as a marginalised group, and during the Minister's statement on mental health and well-being here in Plenary on 8 October, there was no mention about deaf people's mental health. They therefore urge the Minister to check the mental health strategy accordingly. And this, again, is such a serious matter, it merits a statement by the Minister to the full Senedd accordingly. I'd be grateful if you could seek to facilitate both those oral statements to the full Senedd accordingly.

Thank you very much, Mark Isherwood, and thank you for also building on the question that was put by Carolyn Thomas on blue badges. I'm also interested in the issue and circumstances around appeals, and the concerns that have been expressed about understanding of the criteria, and lifetime awards opportunities as well. As I said, we've introduced updates and adjustments, which you're well aware of, having been involved in much of the scrutiny in terms of the blue badge. But also, those changes have come about as a result of engagement with stakeholders and healthcare professionals, as well as local government. And, obviously, you've got some feedback from meeting with people, confected in north Wales. So, I will draw this to the attention of the Cabinet Secretary for Transport and North Wales. And, of course, he will also have his oral Senedd questions next week, so there's an opportunity to raise it there as well. But it's brought, again, to the attention of the Government concerns about the way the blue badge—. The scheme, crucially, must ensure that those who experience barriers to their mobility can access on-street parking concessions.

So, I would also, in terms of your second question—. I think I can assure you, but I know that the Minister for Mental Health and Well-being will also want to respond positively to the call for the inclusion of deaf people in the new mental health strategy. It is an opportunity, as we work very much as we did in the disability rights taskforce, for co-production, and I'm sure that that will be the way forward in terms of the new mental health strategy.

Trefnydd, I'd like a statement, please, about the importance of libraries to education and well-being, and I'd like that statement to set out what support can be given to local authorities to keep libraries open. Across my region, library services face closure because of council cuts. Caerphilly council is proposing to close 12 libraries across the borough. I've had e-mails from constituents worried about losing their libraries in Nelson and Newbridge, Abertridwr, Aberbargoed. Libraries are not just places to borrow books: they're hubs for the community, a place where older people can go to escape loneliness, and a place of refuge for children and teenagers in holidays or after school. Now, I have concerns about how these closures could widen divisions, could punish people for being poor. But what I'm most worried about is how it could curtail young people's imagination and aspiration, how it could close down doors in children's minds, just as they're being formed. So, can the Government set out what support will be made available, and, urgently—the consultation in Caerphilly closes in December?

Thank you for raising this really important issue, Delyth Jewell, in terms of the future of our community libraries. In fact, this was one of the key features of the impact of austerity and reducing budgets over the last 14 years, when local authorities were having to make very difficult choices about the services that they provide and what they could safeguard. But also, it did prompt, of course, moves to look at other ways in which libraries could be provided through our community asset transfers. So, across Wales, and certainly in my constituency, many of the small community libraries now are actually run by local charities with the support of the library service. It varies around Wales; there are many different models. But you have a consultation, and I’m sure some of these models for the future will be considered.

And it is very true, as you say, that libraries are key to not just our children and young people and access to reading the children’s libraries, but to older people, to all generations. Recently, I visited the Ely and Caerau hub in Cardiff, which is the library, but it’s also got a cafe, it’s also got a children’s library, it’s got a job club, it’s got Citizens Advice, it’s got all of the things that a community needs, and I understand that actually more books are taken out now because it’s part of a hub. I think there are some good examples that local authorities have developed across Wales, and hopefully those will be taken into account in that consultation.

I would like to join with Carolyn Thomas and Mark Isherwood in asking for a statement on blue badges. I’m sure that everyone wants to ensure that blue badges are not being abused. Can the statement explain why people with a degenerative condition need to complete the whole application form again, as opposed to confirming they still have the same condition? There are a number of conditions that people don’t get better from. 'I am still blind' would be an answer—they don’t actually need to fill the whole form in—or 'I still have MS.' I completed it for my 93-year-old father-in-law a few years ago, who was registered blind and could not have got anywhere near completing that form himself. If we want to help the people who need help, then we desperately need an oral statement explaining how we can simplify it for those who have got serious conditions.

The second oral statement I request is on the SA1 development in Swansea. This has been very successful, with the University of Wales Trinity Saint David acting as the development anchor, with both housing and businesses—including technological development, hotels and retail—opening on the site. It’s a very successful development on a brownfield site and can be used as an exemplar. Finally, could it contain an update on passing the development to Swansea Council, and support for the leaseholders on the site, and the work that needs to be done on the high-rise developments? Can you ensure that the people in the department that is responsible for it actually know they’re responsible for it, rather than passing my questions on to somebody else?

Thank you very much for those two questions, Mike Hedges. You followed on on the blue badge line of questioning. I think I’ve responded already about the particular challenges for degenerative conditions, which, of course, can end up being permanent or actually worsen in terms of the impact on someone’s life. But also, the fact is, it’s very difficult for that person to actually be able to, at that point, make that challenging application. I think it is important to say that, at the point of diagnosis, even if a condition is progressive and degenerative, it may not yet impact on a person’s mobility to the extent required to meet the criteria for a blue badge, because it is about, as you know, how mobility is currently affected rather than just on the diagnosis. But one important point is that, recently, officials met with individuals with lived experience to better understand their perspectives, and we’re actively exploring the issues raised to see where improvements can be made. But, certainly, this again leads to an airing in this Senedd in terms of scrutiny and updating on that work.

On your questions about the SA1 Swansea waterfront project, which, of course, yes, is hugely successful, attracting significant investment, £250 million of private-public funding, University of Wales Trinity Saint David’s wonderful new Matrix development, and Coastal Housing, constructing 104 new affordable units next to the River Tawe, part funded through the social housing grant programme—. In terms of leaseholders, the Leasehold Advisory Service can help leaseholders to understand their rights and obligations, either in respect of the individual terms of their lease or in relation to legislation which may apply, for example, in relation to their service charges. I think it is important that that is tested in terms of the support from the Leasehold Advisory Service and, of course, in terms of tenants entering into lease agreements at SA1, contractual terms are laid out and a requirement for tenants to contribute to the wider estate service charge. But the Welsh Government also carries out, as you know, the estate-wide service charge services as a landlord, including maintenance and health and safety, and that's publicly procured. But, indeed, you've raised it now, and I hope that leaseholders can find some assistance and expert response from the Leasehold Advisory Service.

Can I ask for a statement from the Cabinet Secretary for health on the Welsh Government's position on prostate cancer screening in Wales? Currently, of course, there is no provision for screening in Wales and similarly in other parts of the UK, despite, of course, prostate cancer being the most common cancer amongst men. Now, according to the cancer charity Prostate Cymru, the outdated NHS guidelines are actually putting lives at risk because, despite all men aged over 50 being entitled to a free prostate-specific antigen test, and younger, of course, if there's a family history of it, GPs are actually told not to raise the subject with men unless they have symptoms. Now, as was bravely highlighted, of course, by Sir Chris Hoy in recent weeks, in most cases there are no symptoms and by the time someone does present with symptoms, then the cancer will be much more advanced and potentially incurable. Now, I understand that the current risk of prostate cancer is one in eight men; if there is a family history, it's one in three. So, will the Welsh Government, please, take heed of Sir Chris Hoy's calls and look again at your position on prostate cancer screening in Wales? 

This afternoon, I had the honour of meeting representatives of the Wampís Nation, an indigenous people living in the Peruvian Amazon, who are in the front line of the battle against climate change. They presented recommendations to us to present to you as a Government, including calling for a requirement for supply chains to be free from deforestation, supporting indigenous peoples in the Welsh Government's international strategy, supporting and promoting opportunities to learn between our respective nations, and also encouraging Welsh public sector pension funds to make sure that any lending or investments are free not only from fossil fuel, but from deforestation as well. So, could we have a statement from the Government responding to those calls from the Wampís Nation, in the hope, of course, that we can play our part more effectively in facing up to the climate change challenge that so many people are experiencing in that part of the world? 

Diolch yn fawr, Llyr Gruffydd. Your first point, I think, is really important, for us to look again at prostate cancer, what consideration is being given to screening and the role and advice to GPs. I also heard an interview with Sir Chris Hoy and he is very reassuring but also encouraging men to go forward and to have those all-important checks. You have also contributed to that awareness raising this afternoon, Llyr, in a really important way. Obviously, I'll talk to the Cabinet Secretary for Health and Social Care about where we are, particularly listening to the prostate cancer charity in terms of our situation. But raising awareness is the key point—the starting point—isn't it, in terms of leading to a recognition that that's something they may wish to, or need to, share with their GPs if there are any concerns.

I'm very interested in your second question as well. The front line of climate change—. I wasn't able to hear those representations, but I know that the Counsel General and the Deputy First Minister themselves were engaged. It is the front line, as you say, that organisation, but, importantly—. I recall the Counsel General, when she was previously Minister for climate change, was able to help make a grant to the organisation—I think it was £50,000—which has made a huge difference in enabling some water facilities—a boat, a canoe—to enable children to access schooling. I'm only just reporting on what she was telling us earlier on today at another meeting. But I think it is very important that we recognise, with COP 29 going on today, that this is at the forefront of our understanding of the impact of climate change on the front line. This is the devastation that so many communities are facing, but we have got a responsibility, and the responsibility for Wales in the world and in our international strategies is clear to this Government.

Could we please have a statement from the Cabinet Secretary for Climate Change and Rural Affairs on the increase in fly-tipping rates in Denbighshire currently, in response to the appalling roll-out of the Trolibocs system? I had a walk around Rhyl in my constituency on Friday and was appalled at the state of the town centre, both of private land and public land. There is rubbish, in some cases, up to 6 ft high, and this is as a result of the council being in a vicious cycle, where people are becoming frustrated at the lack of bin collections happening in the local area and are resorting to illegal methods of fly-tipping in the local area, which is causing huge concerns around public health and environmental issues. You've said previously, Trefnydd, in response to similar questions that I've posed to you, that we're the second biggest recycling nation in the world. Well, it wouldn't be the case in Rhyl and across Denbighshire at the moment, currently. This cost in excess of £1.2 million and was something that was orchestrated by the Welsh Government as far back as 2017-18. So, could I please have a statement from the Cabinet Secretary for climate change on what advice the Welsh Government is giving directly via themselves and through WRAP Cymru in order to remedy these problems, which are, sadly, only getting worse and causing much anxiety as we head towards Christmas time?

Thank you for raising that question. It hasn't been raised for a number of weeks, so I would have understood that the changes for the recycling arrangements of Denbighshire County Council were bedding in and being now managed more effectively. But, unfortunately, from what you say, there are still major issues that are emerging. I will raise this with the Deputy First Minister and Minister for climate change so that we can have an update on the circumstances in Denbighshire. 

Good afternoon, Trefnydd. Could I request a statement, please, from the Cabinet Secretary for Transport and North Wales regarding the proposed cuts to the Heart of Wales line? The Heart of Wales line, for those of you who don't know, is a 120-mile rural railway line. It goes from Swansea to Shrewsbury and stops at 29 stations. Last week, over 100 residents and community leaders gathered in Knighton, speaking out against Transport for Wales plans to slash the services from five trains to four. Many people think that the Heart of Wales line is just for tourists, but it is an essential lifeline for rural communities. So, I would like to ask the Cabinet Secretary if he would rethink the plan to cut the fifth service and to go out and to listen to residents, all of whom spoke about how important this train service is to their lives. Diolch yn fawr iawn.

Diolch yn fawr, Jane Dodds. Clearly, in terms of the Heart of Wales line, it is such an important transport facility in terms of not just your constituency but for Wales as a whole. It's very regrettable when services are removed, and it's also really important that services, actually, are improved on the Heart of Wales line. I understand that they will be improved by the provision of additional seating and cycle capacity, for example, on the services. But I can assure you that Transport for Wales are listening to passengers, key stakeholders, and changes to their service plans are based on this feedback, but I would hope that they also will be meeting with you, to ensure that you can raise these issues as a Senedd Member. And, of course, they did have a public meeting in Knighton on 7 November. But it is, again, a matter of what capacity can be prioritised and how we can safeguard and improve the services on the Heart of Wales line.

Just following on from your remarks to Llyr Gruffydd about the Wampís Nation delegation that was received by various people, I just wanted to celebrate the Creative for Climate Justice exhibition, which has been supported by CAFOD, Christian Aid, Oxfam and Send My Friend to School, and the passion with which these pupils explained why climate justice was so important, and the excellent presentational skills they had, which do us all credit. They really do get it, and it's really good that they're making this contribution to Climate Week, to coincide with COP29.

On a less optimistic note, I just wanted to raise my concern about the increasing number of attacks on grass-roots football referees. The one incident in St Mellons in Cardiff led to a strike by these referees earlier this month in protest at the really significant number of attacks they get. One in four referees have suffered physical abuse and nearly nine in 10 have suffered verbal abuse. These people don't do it for the money; they do it for the love of the game, so it really is depressing that, instead of increasing the opportunities for playing outdoor sports, we seem to be shrinking those opportunities because of the poor behaviour of some people. I wondered if we can have a statement from the culture Minister, who I know is absolutely passionate about grass-roots football, about what the Welsh Government can do, working with these grass-roots football organisations, as well as the FAW, to protect referees and try and double down on abuse to ensure that grass-roots football can continue to flourish.

Thank you very much, Jenny Rathbone, and can I very quickly say 'thank you' again for acknowledging the  Wampís Nation delegation, following on from Llyr Gruffydd, and also the Creative for Climate Justice champions, the young people, who we know, in our schools, can educate us about their understanding and awareness, and obviously others around the Chamber are also able to appreciate that?

Yes, we will raise with the culture Minister the very sad circumstances in terms of the referees and the impact of totally inappropriate behaviour. Everyone should feel very safe when they're participating in sport, and that's volunteers and officials as well as those who are playing it as the players. It's the lifeblood of grass-roots sport. I understand it's South Wales Football Association's jurisdiction for the referee in this situation, in terms of what's happened to referees, and they are taking action against the alleged perpetrators of the incidents. South Wales Police is investigating too. A meeting took place between the FAW, South Wales Football Association and Cardiff Referees' Society on 31 October, and that dialogue is remaining open to provide support and discussion around policies and campaigns to avoid this outcome in the future.

And finally, Mabon ap Gwynfor.

May I ask for two statements, please, with the first from the Deputy First Minister on the findings of the publication by NRW, 'Case for Change'? You will be aware that NRW, last week, announced that they will close visitor centre operations at Coed y Brenin, Bwlch Nant yr Arian and Ynyslas. We know that these centres attract over £30 million into the mid Wales economy. NRW has to find cuts of £13 million this year, and 10 per cent of those cuts will come from the closure of these facilities, so there will be a huge impact on the local economy. So, I would appreciate having a statement with an impact assessment in terms of these recommendations, please, in this Chamber.

Secondly, if I could follow on from the question asked earlier on the Heart of Wales train line, the same is true with the Cambrian line, where there will be cuts to services on that line that will impact on people's ability to get to their place of work. I've received dozens of e-mails from people who use that train to go to work, and they're concerned about their ability to get to the workplace, so there will be a detrimental impact on the economy of the west of Wales with these proposed cuts. So, I would appreciate you looking at both of those elements in terms of the Heart of Wales and the Cambrian line, and ask the Cabinet Secretary to bring a statement forward on the issue. Thank you.

Diolch yn fawr, Mabon ap Gwynfor. Of course, the question on the case for change was raised earlier by Carolyn Thomas, and I did make it clear that NRW have said that they will continue management of these sites, including the three visitor centres, of course including the sites that you refer to. They will remain open for walking, biking, play areas, car parking and toilet provision, but they're now also looking out for expressions of interest from businesses and community groups for taking over the retail and catering services at the centres. 

Thank you again for raising an issue about transport in rural Wales, following on from Jane Dodds's question about the Heart of Wales line. You've now raised the Cambrian line and discussions that are taking place. I will speak to the Cabinet Secretary for Transport and North Wales about this to make sure that Transport for Wales are listening to passengers, stakeholders, and I'm sure you will be feeding back representations that you've made—that have been made to you—and thank you again for putting this on to the record today.

Thank you, Trefnydd.

Item 3 has been withdrawn.

So, we'll move on now to item 4, the statement by the Cabinet Secretary for Education, Anti-bullying Week: the mental health and well-being of learners. I call on the Cabinet Secretary for Education, Lynne Neagle.

Thank you, Dirprwy Lywydd, and thank you for the opportunity to talk about an issue that affects so many children and young people. As I've said in this Chamber before, I want our children to have positive experiences in school and to thrive in the nurturing and supportive environment school provides. Sadly, despite our best efforts, school is not a positive experience for all children and young people. Bullying continues to be a problem and it has a very real impact, particularly on children's emotional well-being. 

This week, we mark Anti-Bullying Week, an important point in our calendar, when we can all stop and consider the impact bullying has. Today, we also mark Odd Socks Day, when we encourage everyone to wear odd socks, celebrating what makes us unique. Our differences should never be the reason for someone to be bullied or mistreated.

When I accepted the role of Cabinet Secretary for Education, I said well-being and good mental health will be the platform on which our education system will be built. Tackling bullying and its impact is a key priority for me. I want to send the message that bullying is unacceptable and will not be tolerated. I also want to be clear that we will support the victim, and work with the perpetrator to recognise the harm they have done, helping them find a positive way forward.

For anyone unsure about the impacts bullying can have, recent data makes for stark reading. Last month, the key findings from the School Health Research Network secondary school dashboard were published. The Welsh Government funds this work, providing over £800,000 in the current year, and I believe it's one of the biggest surveys of children and young people in the UK. A hundred and thirty thousand learners in years 7 to 11 took part, from 200 Welsh secondary schools. It provides a wealth of intelligence on the health and well-being of children and young people, and we've now extended the survey to children in primary schools.

In relation to bullying, it highlights that almost 38 per cent of children and young people said that they had been bullied in the previous couple of months, up from 32 per cent in 2021. More than 40 per cent of girls reported being bulliedd, compared to over 30 per cent of boys.

The data also shows upward trends within the strengths and difficulties questionnaire, which measures psychological problems: 42 per cent of girls scored high or very high, compared to 27 per cent of boys; over 26 per cent of students scored high or very high for peer problems; young people with low family affluence report lower life satisfaction, lower mental well-being and more psychological difficulties, compared to young people with middle or high family affluence; and, whilst mental well-being has improved slightly since 2021, with 22 per cent of young people reporting low well-being, compared to 25 per cent in 2021, it is still worse than in 2017 and 2019, when 18 per cent and 21 per cent of young people reported low well-being.

These trends are concerning and show that we cannot reduce our focus on children's mental health and well-being. We are making progress though our statutory guidance on a whole-school-approach to emotional and mental well-being. We've invested significantly to support the work, including £13.6 million in the current year. Funding supports school counselling services, delivering universal and targeted well-being interventions, and supporting our child and adolescent mental health service school in-reach service.

However, there is always more we can do, and supporting schools to implement the guidance remains a priority for me. The latest data shows that all but 24 secondary schools are now actively action planning to support their well-being needs. However, primary schools are making slower progress, with only 669—just over half—at this stage. This is something I will continue to focus on over the coming months to see how we can close the gap.

The link between bullying and mental health is well known. At its most extreme, young people have taken their own lives as a result of being bullied. This is a tragedy for the young life lost, for their family and friends, and for whole communities. Members of this Senedd will know that, for many years, I have been a champion of campaigns, organisations and individuals that seek to prevent suicide, especially young suicide. In April I hosted an online professional learning event for teachers and other staff to feel confident and competent when dealing with these emotionally charged issues in schools. The event provided staff with the initial listening skills to use to develop their confidence when faced with these issues. Four hundred and thirty individuals joined the online event, 'Finding our words: suicide and self-harm prevention', which is still available to view on our Hwb platform, demonstrating the strength of feeling and scale of the problem facing those working in our classrooms. 

I want to continue to prioritise this issue, and will be exploring what more we can do in 2025 to support schools in line with our draft suicide and self-harm prevention strategy. Alongside this, I want to commit today to updating our statutory anti-bullying guidance, 'Rights, respect, equality'. The document was originally published in 2019, and, whilst much of it remains relevant, it now needs to reflect the reality of life in modern Wales.

I believe Wales is an inclusive and tolerant country. However, I also recognise that we must be vigilant to those who would sow doubt and mistrust amongst us. The issues that occur in society are often played out in microcosm in our schools. In updating the guidance, I intend to strengthen it and ensure it helps to tackle racism in all its forms, supporting the requirements of the 'Anti-racist Wales Action Plan', tackle religious hatred, and tackle hatred towards our LGBTQ+ and transgender communities. I will bring forward the revised document for consultation as soon as we can.

None of us want to see bullying in our schools. Anti-bullying Week shines a spotlight on the issue, and I encourage all Senedd Members to engage and support schools in our constituencies during this week, inspiring our children to celebrate our differences and promote constructive relationships. Diolch.

I'd like to place on record my appreciation for your statement this afternoon, Cabinet Secretary, to mark Anti-bullying Week. It's very timely and important and I personally believe that there is no place for bullying within any settings, particularly in regard to this context anyway. This statement has been delivered in the Senedd today, in the context of Anti-bullying Week, and of course this is intertwined with the mental health and well-being of learners. But the poorer mental health and well-being of learners is linked to a variety of factors that cannot be considered in isolation. So, I welcome an approach that directs focus on the myriad of issues in the Welsh education system, which all intersect with pupil and teacher well-being. When it comes to the Welsh Government's record on anti-bullying in schools, sadly the results have not matched the Government's expectations. The Welsh Labour manifesto for the 2021 Senedd elections vowed to

'protect our children and young people from hate crime and bullying',

specifically working with organisations such as Google, Facebook and Twitter to achieve this. The Cabinet Secretary, whilst Chair of the Senedd's children, young persons and education committee in 2021, welcomed the Welsh Government's commitment to ensuring schools have a legal duty to consider the mental health and well-being of children. Since this was enshrined, however, the mental health of pupils has declined, and reports of bullying in schools have only increased, so the Welsh Government have failed in that duty, unfortunately.

The School Health Research Network survey of 130,000 learners from years 7 to 11 across the 200 secondary schools in Wales demonstrated a regression from 2021 to 2023 on just about every metric of pupil well-being. The report found a growing sense of social isolation, with fewer young people saying they can rely on their friends, compared to data from 2017. This appears to be a growing trend following COVID, in which we've seen disappointing progress in assimilating pupils back to school following self-isolation. And this lack of support is also reflected in the shocking rise in behavioural issues in schools across Wales.

The well-being of educators is also declining, with 95 per cent of Welsh teachers reporting in 2023 that they had experienced physical abuse or violence from pupils. Eighty-six per cent of teachers report that this has affected their morale and enthusiasm for their job, with more than half of teachers in Wales experiencing stress and anxiety. It's important, therefore, that the Welsh Government takes a holistic approach that considers the well-being of both educators and learners and addresses all factors that are contributing to the decline, which will include bullying, social isolation, phone use in the classroom and poor behaviour.

To focus on bullying, the figures are equally disappointing, with the number of pupils in Wales reporting being bullied increasing from 6 per cent between 2021 and 2023, and the number of pupils that reported experiencing cyber bullying increasing by 3 per cent between 2021 and 2023. These results are higher than ever previously reported in the survey, which is deeply troubling, particularly three years on from the Welsh Government enshrining a legal duty to consider the mental well-being of children and protect them from hate. The reports also show a higher rate of girls being bullied than boys, with over 40 per cent of girls reporting that they experience bullying in schools in Wales. So, despite the warm words from the Welsh Government, we have seen a total lack of delivery when it comes to improving the mental well-being of our young people and reducing rates of bullying in schools.

I'd like to hear from the Cabinet Secretary more specific plans for delivery and how they expect to see results, and I'd like to see the Cabinet Secretary also lay out a broader plan of how all of these intertwined issues are being addressed. The concerning rise in poor behaviour is also undoubtedly linked to poorer pupil well-being, so it's important that the Welsh Government also addresses these as one. The Welsh Labour manifesto also pledged to work with social media organisations to tackle hate and protect our young people from bullying, so I'm also keen to hear from the Government what work has been undertaken by the Welsh Government to this end. And finally, I would like to hear how the Welsh Government plans to address the well-being of educators as well as students. The concerning data shows a decline in teacher satisfaction, which will have a negative effect on the education of learners and will, in the long run, cause significant problems with the recruitment and retention of teaching staff across Wales. I look forward to hearing your response, and thank you again for your statement this afternoon.

Can I thank Gareth Davies for his welcome for the statement and his comments, some of which I agreed with? In particular, I agree with the fact that a lot of the issues we're seeing in schools are interconnected, and one of the things that I said when I came into post was that I wanted to see better join-up of a range of things that we're doing; so, behaviour is linked to mental health is linked to exclusions is linked to attendance, and we're trying to join up that work. Part of the work that the delivery board for the whole-school approach, which is jointly chaired by myself and Sarah Murphy, is doing is that we have a work stream there that is looking across the whole system of what we're doing to make sure that these initiatives are joined up.

You mentioned the duty on mental health. There was a duty as part of the Curriculum and Assessment (Wales) Act 2021 to have regard to the mental health of children and young people in drawing up a curriculum. That's a world first, as far as I'm aware, and we have done that in Wales. And I think we have a good record; we have things in Wales that are just not happening over the border. So, we've got a whole-school approach to mental health, which is a work in progress, but we have that, and we've enshrined it in statutory guidance. We've had school counselling available for young people in Wales from year 6 to the end of secondary school. That's an entitlement that young people have in Wales; again, not something that's happened over the border. We've got CAMHS school in-reach in Wales, which we've invested over million £5 million in, with CAMHS professionals going into schools, working with the staff there, providing additional support for children and young people with more complexity, and we have invested over £13 million in that work just this year alone. So, I think that we have a good record, but there is more work to do.

And the increase that you've referred to in the numbers of children and young people reporting poor well-being is not because of a lack of commitment by this Government or action by this Government; I think it's symptomatic of the complexity of children and young people's lives. We know that the COVID pandemic had an impact on children and young people and we're still recovering from that, including in schools. So, I think we've got a good record, but we need to keep our foot down on the pedal on that.

And if I can say to you, Gareth, that a lot of the mental health issues affecting children and young—and indeed, which contribute to bullying—are due to poverty, and that is a direct result of your Government in Westminster—[Interruption.] No, no, no, no, no: this is a fact. You have led to many, many children growing up in homes where they are living in poverty. That leads to stigma and social exclusion. It is a fact. Now we've got a Labour Government in Westminster, albeit a very young one, I am confident that we will see things change, working with the Labour Government here.

You made some important points about the education workforce. I have always said—indeed, I said it to the headteachers' conference last week—that the education workforce can't support the mental health and well-being of children in schools if they are not in a good place themselves, so that's why our whole-school approach also applies to our education workforce. We're investing in support for the workforce, not just through Education Support, which is an organisation that we fund to support the workforce, but also school staff have been able to access the counselling service as well.

I also disagree with what you've said about the record on bullying. As I said today, we're looking to update the statutory guidance on bullying. The SHRN results are very concerning. I'm really proud that we've got SHRN in Wales; it's funded jointly across the Government and it is a really powerful way of listening to the voices of children and young people, and what it has said about bullying is really worrying. I'm going to be meeting the SHRN team shortly to talk about the findings and to talk about—. Schools have got access to that data, they have their own school report from SHRN, but I'm keen that, as a Government, we can look to use that data to make sure that we hone our policies more effectively. Thank you.

I thank the Cabinet Secretary for the statement. Plaid Cymru, of course, supports efforts to reduce bullying whenever it arises and to improve the well-being of children and young people. We will be closely scrutinising the Government's work in this area, because it's such an important area.

If I could turn to the statement specifically, it is a concern that the number of children, as we've already heard, that have suffered bullying has increased from 6 per cent since 2021, but on the other hand it's encouraging that the mental well-being of children and young people is generally improved since 2021. But we haven't returned, of course, to the low levels that we saw before the pandemic.

I do note the commitment of the Cabinet Secretary to update the anti-bullying guidance, but this is not a new commitment from the Government. Indeed, the former education Minister said in March this year, in this Chamber, that the Welsh Government, and I quote, was

'in the course of updating our statutory guidance on anti-bullying for schools'.

So, could the Cabinet Secretary tell us what specific progress the Government has made over the last eight months on this, and can we expect draft guidance to be published before Christmas? If not, well, when?

I would like to focus very briefly in my contribution on the impact of poverty on the well-being of young people and the issue of racism in schools. As Children in Wales stated in a briefing note:

'School uniforms can help create a sense of community, belonging and identity.'

But, for many children and young people living in poverty, school uniforms cause stress and can also lead to bullying, particularly when the cost of school uniforms that have a badge on them can be much higher than the cost of uniforms without a badge. I know that the Welsh Government has policy guidance on school uniforms, but I am concerned as to whether the policy is being implemented effectively enough, given that many children do face stigma if they don't wear the correct uniform.

This is the experience of one pupil who has been stigmatised. The pupil said, 'If you don't have the correct school uniform, you receive a school uniform slip to take home, and if the uniform is not rectified, you receive a negative behaviour point that can lead to detention after school.' It's unacceptable, in my opinion, for pupils to receive that kind of penalty as a result of non-compliance with a school uniform policy, which can be expensive for those living in poverty. So, will you as a Government consider ensuring that all schools have school uniform recycling schemes? And what other support can you provide for those who find it difficult to buy the correct school uniform including a badge? And will you, as Cabinet Secretary, also consider strengthening the implementation of the guidance on school uniform, in order to reduce the number of children who are facing bullying as a result of that?

Finally, to close, racism in schools is also an issue that has unfortunately deteriorated over recent years. In a recent report by the children's commissioner on children's experiences of racism, a number of horrific experiences were shared by pupils from across Wales. In my region, for example, one young person said, and I quote, 'My friend, who has darker skin than me, was bullied a lot, and people would use the N-word against her.' Another individual said, and I quote again, 'Someone said that they didn't want me to sit next to them because of the colour of my skin. I just moved away.' That's entirely unacceptable in our schools.

So, I'm sure that you, as the Cabinet Secretary, and everyone in the Chamber will agree that we must do more to tackle these terrible experiences that some children suffer. So, will you, as the Cabinet Secretary, consider the recommendations included in the report by the children's commissioner on this issue, when updating these new anti-bullying guidance? Thank you very much.

Thank you very much, Cefin, for your welcome for the statement, and I welcome close scrutiny of our action in this space. And thank you too for recognising that there has been an improvement in well-being, but as you say, it's not back to pre-pandemic levels. So, there are some mixed messages in there that we need to consider very carefully.

I've been in post since March. I can tell you that we are working now on the bullying guidance, and I'm very happy to keep you updated on that. We'll do that as quickly as we can and, hopefully, go out to consult on the new guidance after Christmas.

You referred to the impact of poverty, which is very, very pertinent, and in particular the issues around school uniform. I've got a very long-standing bugbear about school uniform; it's something that has worried me greatly. Whenever I've posted something as a constituency MS about school uniform, it's had lots and lots of engagement, which tells me that it's something that really worries my constituents. You'll be aware that we did revise the guidance for schools on school uniform a year ago, but like you, I don't feel that I've got the assurance about implementation. So, we're currently looking now at the implementation, to make sure that that guidance is working. You'll probably be aware that the UK Labour Government is considering primary legislation in this space, and I'm keeping open the option of working with them on that, if we find that our guidance isn't being implemented. Lots of schools already have uniform recycling and that is something that we're continuing to encourage. But I am very keen, if necessary, to look at strengthening that guidance. I don't want any child to be penalised because their parents haven't got enough money to give them the correct item of uniform, and we have to work with schools on that to make sure that they are as inclusive as possible.

You referred to the issues of racism, and our review of the guidance will definitely take account of what we know are really worrying findings by the children's commissioner on racism. Obviously, as a Government, we're working on the 'Anti-racist Wales Action Plan', which is being led by Jane Hutt. I went to school in the 1980s and we had very few children from black and minority ethnic communities in schools then, but actually, I was shocked when I saw some of the things that were happening in schools today. I really thought things had come on a lot, so it is shocking. We have considered the recommendations set out in the children's commissioner's report. We've accepted or partly accepted most of them. Some of the recommendations are challenging and will take a bit of time, because they involve data and often, when you're collecting data, that means changing regulations. But I'm committed to getting this right and it will be a key part of the review of the guidance to make sure that we bring it up to date and make it clear that racism in schools is not acceptable and that we want to stamp it out.

Children's mental health is at an all-time low, with smartphones and social media being major contributing factors. They can be used to bully, manipulate and control, sending young people into an isolated world of despair, not thinking they can get out of it or go to somebody for help. There is currently an open petition to ban smartphones in all schools in Wales, with exceptions for exceptional circumstances. The petitioner points out that smartphones can lower self-esteem, trigger anxiety, and distract from opportunities to speak face to face. The Petitions Committee are looking to hold an inquiry into this matter. Cabinet Secretary, would you agree that a ban on smartphones in schools is something that should be considered going forward?

Thank you very much, Carolyn, for those comments. I really welcome the fact that the Petitions Committee is looking at these issues. The issues around mobile phones are complicated, I think. All schools currently are able to ban mobile phones in schools if they want to, and indeed, most schools don’t permit the use of mobile phones in the classroom. It was interesting, though, at the headteachers conference last week, that when we were looking at behaviour, they felt that mobile phones should be a matter for individual schools. So, there are different opinions on this, but I’ll look forward to hearing the evidence that comes out from your committee. Just to assure you that, as I said last week, we are publishing a behaviour toolkit to help schools, and that will include classroom management strategies and research on managing behaviour, including mobile phone usage in schools.

And just to say as well that you make important points about social media. I wouldn’t want to be a teenager growing up today. It is a really challenging environment. It’s not clear-cut with social media, because there are benefits as well as disadvantages for children and young people, especially those that are feeling isolated. One of the things our curriculum aims to do, through things like our relationships and sexuality education work, is to encourage children and young people to become discerning users of social media. For me, it’s really important that they know how to seek help as well if they’re upset about something that they’ve seen. We are doing lots of work on keeping children and young people safe online. We’ve got a dedicated area of Hwb. We’ve got a young persons reference group, which we’re currently refreshing, and there’s also lots of helpful information for parents about how to keep their children and young people safe.

But you’re right to raise it, and it’s something that we always need to keep under review. It’s why the whole-school approach is so important, because if kids are struggling, we want them to tell people that they’re struggling, whether that’s one of their friends, a teacher, school caretaker; it doesn’t matter, as long as they reach out for help.

Diolch for your statement today, Cabinet Secretary. I’m pleased that this Anti-bullying Week is bringing much-needed awareness to the severe impact that bullying has on the mental health of its victims. The Welsh Government has pledged support, but I’m concerned that the problem is far from resolved. This week, I spoke to a very concerned constituent whose child suffered bullying at a school in Monmouthshire over a very long period of time. The family raised concerns with the school, but the bullying continued. This led to the child suffering from panic attacks. She was eventually kept out of school activities, which meant her not attending multiple lessons for months in the run-up to her GCSEs. She felt unable to stay on at the school to do A-levels, and her parents are convinced this has severely affected her mental health. Unfortunately, this isn’t an isolated case in this school.

Today, we should remember that bullying extends beyond the playground. It can happen in any setting, even the workplace, and its consequences are long lasting. What steps is the Minister taking to ensure that schools are adequately equipped, that training is available, and that people are supported to address bullying effectively and prevent situations like this from happening, and ensuring that schools work closely with parents as well? As we know, some schools and local authorities tackle this better than others. So, how will the Cabinet Secretary ensure that best practice is shared across Wales in this regard? Thank you.

Can I thank Laura Anne Jones for those comments? I'm really sorry to hear about your constituent. Nobody wants to hear of children and young people being in that situation. Our guidance on bullying is statutory, and we expect all schools to have plans in place to tackle bullying, because it does, as you've outlined, have a huge impact. And as you've also said, it's not just about what happens in school, especially with social media. It's not like years ago, where you go home, shut the door, and that's it. People can access children and young people at all times, and that is incredibly worrying, and why the online safety work that I've talked about is so important. You also mentioned parents as well, and parents can help with this, but they can be a negative sometimes with social media, when things start to do the rounds on Facebook, and things like that.

You'll be aware that we've got our commitment to community-focused schools, which we're investing millions of pounds in, and I want to see that work roll out. It's vital that schools are able to make the connection with communities and with families. We've also invested £6.5 million this year in family engagement officers, who can work with families around the complex issues that are preventing some of those children and young people coming to school and thriving in school. I'm hoping that we will be able to extend that work as well, to try to make it more consistent across Wales. What I do give you an assurance on is that, as we refresh this guidance now, I will look at the issues around consistency and implementation, because it's not good enough to have the right policies, they've got to be implemented on the ground.

My four-year-old went to nursery today wearing odd socks. And when she saw me putting on what she described as 'boring black socks', she decided she would pick some new socks for me. So, that's why I'm wearing brightly coloured socks and wearing Christmassy socks too—I'm not showing you, Cefin; don't look—one with a snowman and the other with Father Christmases. But thank you for your important statement, because bullying can impact people for decades to come, after school. As you've indicated in your statement, bullying is a problem that can affect all learners in Wales, but it's an issue that doesn't affect learners equally. In Cardiff, around a third of learners come from ethnically diverse backgrounds. And I was staggered to read a survey from 2020, which said that 61.5 per cent of learners had expressed stereotypes over skin colour, religion and nationality. What will the Welsh Government do with regard to doing more research to quantify the scale of this issue in Wales? Diolch yn fawr.

Thank you very much. And well done on your odd socks—I'm glad that you listened to your four-year-old; they're obviously a very wise four-year-old you've got in your house. So, yes, absolutely, and what the odd socks thing shows is it's about difference, and what we want is our schools to be inclusive regardless of all those differences. I said in response to Cefin how seriously we're taking the children's commissioner's report and recommendations, and you'll be aware that one of the recommendations she made was around recording incidents of racism. You've got to have data to change things, in my experience—it's about having that sensible data. So, that is one of the areas that we're working on. It will take a little while, because there are also concerns about how you do it, and workload, et cetera, but I am very keen to get a clearer picture on that. And it's not just about racism. We know from the data that's come through the school health research network that young people who don't identify as either male or female also have high reporting of incidents of bullying. I want all our schools to be inclusive, welcoming places for all our young people. Because as you say, those experiences of bullying can last a lifetime and be really traumatic.

Finally, Jenny Rathbone.

Thank you very much, and thank you very much, Cabinet Secretary, for your really long commitment to this issue. I think that’s really appreciated, and the investment you’re making in trying to get to the heart of the matter.

I want to also pay tribute to all those who are combating the bullying, racism and LGBTphobia that goes on in schools, as it does in the rest of society, because the work they do is so appreciated. In some schools, somebody being bullied may hesitate to seek help from that school in case it provokes further bullying. They don’t want to be seen going into the headteacher’s office or that of some senior person. 

I’d really like to highlight my appreciation for the Hangout in Cardiff city centre, which is funded by Cardiff and Vale health board and delivered by Platfform, a mental health charity. It's open to anybody in Cardiff aged 11 to 18, between 3 p.m. and 9 p.m. on weekdays and 12 p.m. to 6 p.m. at the weekends. You can just turn up and it’s very friendly, nobody’s going to insist that you have to disclose, they wait for you to be ready to speak. So, that’s a fantastic service.

I’d just like to know what you plan to do about the 24 schools that still haven’t got a well-being policy. Because this idea that it only relates to schools where a significant number of people are in poverty is not the case; it’s in all schools. Therefore, all schools need to have a strategy for improving the well-being and the sense of community in all our schools.

Thank you very much, Jenny, and thank you for the kind words. I’m really glad you had the opportunity to visit the Hangout. I know of it and I’ve heard really great things about it. I haven’t had the opportunity to go there myself yet, but organisations like that are really important, where children and young people can go and ask for help.

It’s one of the reasons why we’ve also as a Government, as part of our co-operation agreement with Plaid Cymru, invested in sanctuary provision, and some of those are community drop-in type provision, such as the one that you’ve referred to. We also fund things like Meic, which is the helpline for children and young people, and you know about '111 press 2', which can also be used by children and young people. I think it’s really important that we have as many opportunities as possible for children and young people to ask for help when they need it. That’s absolutely vital.

In terms of the schools that aren’t at the right stage in terms of the whole-school approach to mental health and the implementation of the guidance, we are continuing to drive that work. I do want to see more progress. I highlighted in my statement that there’s also a gap with primary provision, but I also feel that lots of primary schools do this work very naturally. Our whole-school approach is built on strong relationships, and they naturally have strong relationships because they’re with one class all of the time. It’s Public Health Wales who we fund—it’s around £700,000—to implement the guidance for us. I’ve been clear that I thought that secondary schools was where we needed to make the most progress. Sarah Murphy and I have got our delivery board tomorrow where we’ll be scrutinising Public Health Wales and the other work streams, and I really want to see everybody in Wales doing this. 

I know we’re asking a lot of schools. This isn’t intended to be burdensome. It’s not about teachers becoming therapists. It’s about everybody recognising that a school where there’s a sense of belonging, agency and strong relationships is what enables good mental health to flourish.

Thank you, Cabinet Secretary.

Item 5 today is a statement by the Cabinet Secretary for Social Justice on diversity and inclusion for political parties. I call on the Cabinet Secretary to make the statement. Jane Hutt.

Thank you, Dirprwy Lywydd. I'm very pleased that, today, I am able to publish our draft guidance for political parties, with the aim of ensuring that our democratic bodies are representative of everyone in Wales. The consultation is open until 7 January.

The final guidance, when published next spring, will deliver on the Welsh Ministers' duty in section 30 of the Elections and Elected Bodies (Wales) Act 2024. The guidance also addresses the Special Purpose Committee on Senedd Reform’s recommendation in their 2022 report that parties should be encouraged to publish diversity and inclusion strategies. It also responds to calls made for more transparency of diversity information about candidates for Senedd elections. In addition, the guidance encourages political parties to consider what action they can take towards achieving a gender-balanced Senedd through the use of voluntary quotas, taking into account the evidence that emerged during the scrutiny of the Senedd Cymru (Electoral Candidate Lists) Bill, which indicated very clearly that a more representative Senedd will be a more effective Senedd. 

The guidance is part of a wider package of reforms to make the Senedd fit for the twenty-first century and, importantly, to make democracy in Wales more representative and diverse, both at a local and Senedd level. From 2026 this Senedd will look and feel very different. I believe the guidance will help political parties in trying to make sure it represents the diversity of the people we are here to serve and to represent. We've engaged with a number of stakeholders, including the Senedd women’s caucus, over recent weeks, to listen to what they say and see as barriers to participation and to raise awareness of the consultation we're launching today. I am grateful to them for their engagement, and I thank Julie Morgan for her valuable support in meeting with as many stakeholders as possible. 

I am confident that the guidance will be an important tool for parties to consider the actions they can take to contribute towards our shared ambition of a more representative and more effective Senedd. I would encourage parties to take account of it now, as they plan their selection processes for 2026. The guidance draws on some of the principles and practices that are commonplace in organisations looking to nurture a culture of diversity and inclusion and signposts political parties to information about relevant legal obligations that they should consider when taking steps to increase diversity.

The guidance is split into three parts, each with its own purpose, but with the overall aim of increasing diversity and promoting inclusion in political and public life. Part 1 of the guidance will support political parties to develop and publish their diversity and inclusion strategy. We would expect their first strategy to be published at least six months before the 2026 Senedd election. Part 2 sets out how parties can collect and publish diversity information relating to candidates for Senedd elections, and this information will establish a baseline and allow for tracking and monitoring by parties over time. It will also help them to identify and address under-representation. Part 3 of the guidance sets out how parties could implement voluntary quotas for women.

We remain committed to a gender-balanced Senedd. There is considerable international evidence that having more women in parliaments makes them more effective and that quotas can be effective in improving women’s representation. Some parties have had success in getting more women elected, but there is still some way to go. Women are an under-represented majority in this Senedd. By including the section on voluntary gender quotas in the guidance, I want all parties to recognise the importance of considering what action they may take to increase women’s representation. At the same time, we must make progress on the representation of other under-represented groups. The first two parts of the guidance are dedicated to increasing diversity and inclusion in politics across a broad spectrum of characteristics and circumstances, including improving outcomes for those who suffer socioeconomic disadvantage and also realising our vision of a bilingual Wales. The guidance aims to ensure that political parties, and the public who they seek to represent, have better information on what representation looks like for different groups, so that political parties and others can consider what may be the most effective mechanisms for removing barriers to participation.

In developing the draft guidance, we’ve engaged political parties and heard many others speak about the barriers that make participation difficult for some people. Organisations giving evidence to the Reform Bill Committee, Dirprwy Lywydd, made it very clear that things need to change, including within parties, if we're to genuinely open the door to more diversity. Our stakeholders have helped us to identify broad principles that parties can adopt to be more inclusive, to remove barriers faced by people from diverse backgrounds and to effect change.

Welsh Ministers are under a duty to publish this guidance before 1 May 2025. However, I'm mindful that the Democracy and Boundary Commission Cymru is required to publish its final report on the Senedd constituencies for the 2026 election before April next year and the work that parties are doing to determine the selection processes for their candidates, so I am aiming to align publication of the final guidance with the final constituency boundaries.

We all know that guidance alone is not enough to ensure we achieve diversity in politics. This is why the Welsh Government is taking forward other measures, including implementing provisions in the Elections and Elected Bodies (Wales) Act 2024 to create a more inclusive politics. Building on our pilot access to elected office fund, the Act requires the Welsh Ministers to provide for a scheme of financial assistance to help disabled candidates who want to stand for election. The Act also paves the way for additional support for people who share certain characteristics, socioeconomic or other specific circumstances to stand.

In the recently refreshed 'Anti-racist Wales Action Plan', we also committed to collaborate with black, Asian and minority ethnic people across Wales to develop evidence-based, tailored support for candidates, while also building a broader pipeline of individuals interested in running for office. We have provided funding to the Equal Power Equal Voice programme and are exploring how we may be able to continue to support it. This funding has paid dividends, with success stories including former mentees gaining positions as councillors. Importantly, the programme is intersectional across different protected characteristics. This is crucial to all our equalities work now and in the future, ensuring that mentees of all backgrounds can be supported. 

I am also aware of the very serious issue of harassment and abuse of election candidates and how this is on the rise, including at the recent general election. It is crucial that we tackle this issue to give all candidates the confidence to put themselves forward for election, knowing they will be protected if they do. We are working collaboratively alongside the other UK administrations to ensure measures are put in place to promote candidate safety, and the draft guidance highlights the role political parties have in supporting their candidates.

I have been encouraged over recent months by the real desire from all parties represented in this Senedd to see not only more women in politics, but greater diversity and inclusion across other characteristics and circumstances. There has been recognition from parties and stakeholders that action on multiple fronts is needed to achieve lasting change. We must use this commitment to achieve positive results for the next Senedd election and for all Welsh elections beyond that, and I encourage parties to use this guidance to support them in this ambition.

Thank you, Dirprwy Lywydd, and I look forward to hearing people’s views on the draft guidance over the coming weeks.

Thank you, Minister, for your statement and, indeed, the briefing that you provided to me prior to today. I have to say, as I expressed to you during the briefing that we had, that I'm rather disappointed at the lack of engagement that there has been since your statement that you made that you were withdrawing the gender quota legislation. You told us at that time that you wanted to engage positively with political parties to bring forward some guidance, and yet the only contact I received from your office prior to today's publication of the guidance was a request to attend a briefing with you, which was held yesterday. That isn't the sort of engagement that I wanted to see. I wanted it to be far more collaborative. But, nevertheless, that is where we currently are. 

Now, as you know, I've long been calling for guidance as a tool in the armoury to be able to assist political parties in Wales in helping to ensure that they put up a slate of diverse candidates at the next Senedd election, and, indeed, at local elections and at UK parliamentary elections in the future. And having read the draft guidance, I think there's some very important work that has been done in its development, but I am a little bit disappointed that it does seem, once again, to overemphasise in particular gender diversity over and above other protected characteristics. Now, that's not to say that other protected characteristics are not referenced in the guidance, because, of course, as you've just said, and as is patently clear for anybody who reads the guidance, there are references to other aspects of diversity, but they're not sufficiently well emphasised, in my view.

You've said that you've had some engagement with stakeholders in the development of the guidance. As I say, I'm a political stakeholder—you've had no engagement with me prior to, literally, last night, and then today in this Chamber. Could you outline a little more the engagement that you've had with stakeholders? You gave me some references that you'd made last night, but, again, it seemed to be overly heavy on groups that were interested in gender diversity, and there seemed to be very limited engagement with others, such as faith groups, disability groups, although you'd had some engagement with Disability Wales, the older people's commissioner, young people's groups. All, again, seemed to be devoid of serious engagement—the sort of serious engagement that I would have hoped that the Welsh Government would try to take forward.

I know that the status of this guidance is going to be voluntary. Whilst there, obviously, is an obligation on you as a Minister to publish this guidance, and that is a statutory obligation, this, obviously, is going to be voluntary. But I will want to assure you of this, Minister: that I will do everything that I can to encourage my political party to engage in adopting some of the ideas and suggestions that are in this draft guidance. We will, of course, respond to the consultation. We will listen, as well, to the voices of other stakeholders as they participate in the ongoing consultation now, which will be completed in January too. We very much hope that when the final guidance is published, it will be more reflective of that broader range of characteristics that I have referred to you about. 

One of the things that I would like to invite you to do, Minister, is to join me at a future meeting of the cross-party group on faith in order to have some engagement with the faith groups that attend those meetings; I think it's a very useful forum. I know that there has been some attempt to reach out, at least, to Cytûn and the Interfaith Council for Wales; you referenced those in our discussions last night. But I do think that some more serious engagement with groups like that, with some of the age-related groups and with some of the groups that are working hard to address other disadvantages that we also need to take into account, and barriers that we need to address, is something that I'd like to assist the Welsh Government in taking forward.

Just finally, if I may, I was very pleased to hear the reference to the continuation of an access to elected office fund for those with disabilities. I think the pilot has been a success, although we need to do more to raise awareness about the availability of that fund to assist people in overcoming barriers to becoming candidates for election. We must also make sure that it's broader in the future so that it includes the opportunity to overcome some of those other barriers to addressing the diversity challenge that we all face. So, I'd be very pleased if you could confirm that that is something that you will consider—the widening of that particular fund—in the future in your response to me. Thank you.

Thank you very much indeed, Darren Millar. I was very pleased to be able to meet with you and brief you before I came forward with this statement, and also to say, most importantly, that this is draft guidance, and we've got this opportunity now over the next few weeks to fully engage and to get the feedback. I'm very much hoping that all of the parties here will be discussing this within their groups, within all of their networks and with their party executives, because, obviously, this is for the political parties that we are members of.

I think, just to say, that because this was, actually, a statutory duty in the Elections and Elected Bodies (Wales) Act, which, as you recall, we passed in July of this year, 2024—section 30—work had already started from officials. In fact, Mick Antoniw, as Counsel General, was leading it at that stage when he took the Bill through the Senedd. So, for example, officials had already engaged with a number of stakeholders on proposals for the draft guidance. There was a draft high-level document, shared with the Women's Equality Network Wales—WEN Wales—and the Electoral Reform Society in June, and, for initial feedback, a stakeholder workshop was held in July; a draft outline of the guidance shared in advance of every one. And, of course, this was officials engaging with these organisations. This is the kind of important balance, that this is a Government duty—so, officials and civil servants have been involved, in order to help inform us as a Ministers in terms of developing the guidance.

I think it's really important to say, in terms of some of the stakeholders and interest groups that you've mentioned, at that high-level engagement in the summer, Disability Wales and Cytûn were—. They did meet with Cytûn. They met with Stonewall Cymru, WEN Wales, the Electoral Reform Society, Elect Her, the human rights advisory group. The Senedd political party panel—that's really important. That's facilitated by the Electoral Commission. I've met with them on more than one occasion, and, of course, they are the paid lead officials in your political parties, and they rotate the chair. But also we looked to the Children's Commissioner for Wales, Older People's Commissioner for Wales, the Future Generations Commissioner for Wales, the Welsh Youth Parliament. We reached out in order to try and get their views to help us develop this draft guidance, but now, of course, they have all got the opportunity to feed back, and many more.

I'd certainly be very pleased to come to meet with the cross-party group, the faith cross-party group. I'm actually, on Thursday, going to the Interfaith Council for Wales event, which I think some others are joining. I've been putting this into my speeches, wherever I can, to sort of forewarn and engage and get feedback. I think there's been huge disappointment about the fact that we haven't got statutory gender quotas, but I did make a commitment that we would consult and help guide—which it is, it's guidance—on voluntary quotas, and to make the point again about our commitment to a gender-balanced Senedd, and to go back about all of the tremendous work that was done, which, of course, was chaired by the Deputy Llywydd, in terms of the reform Bill, the electoral candidates Bill. So, it's absolutely feeding into what we're doing.

Just to say, in terms of the wider diversity and inclusion strategy, part 1 and part 2 are totally delivering on that diversity and inclusion strategy, because it is about—. There's a lot of in-depth, as you have seen, Darren, guidance about how parties can develop their strategies, and it covers all of the ground in terms of how they can guide them, to ensure that we do fully engage with them and guide them in terms of the ways in which they can develop those strategies. And I think you will see that there is in-depth guidance there on strategic planning, organisational culture, candidate assessment and selection, candidate support. I think it's quite—. It is unique, it is breaking new ground. It has drawn, for example, where it can, on where there has been other work done. But I would say one of the most important actions for parties to consider is to assign a dedicated equality and diversity co-ordinator or champion at an appropriate level of seniority. Each political party must do this to make sure that they can help develop this strategy.

The guidance looks at not only actions, but potential benefits. Also we, of course, as you've said, have got statutory duties now to ensure that we can address some of those barriers that have held people back. So, I can assure you that we're going to be spreading this draft guidance—the older people's commissioner—for all generations, and all interests and characteristics.

I thank you for your positive comments on the draft guidance. I think it is an opportunity for us as a Senedd to come together, to recognise that we have got an opportunity here, and I'm very keen in terms of not just the access to elected office fund for disabled people, which is having an impact, but that we look at that in terms of all opportunities—this has come through our discussions with EYST, with Race Council Cymru, not just Disability Wales, who have shown us how that's being used—but also looking at ways in which we can address some of those other barriers. I'm really conscious of the fact that when, I think, you were taking evidence in the Reform Bill Committee, there was this recognition that it wasn't just about quotas, it was beyond quotas, it was all the other strategies that we need to address. So, I've commented on that they're very clear in the guidance in terms of family-friendly policies, caring needs, all of the circumstances, and, particularly importantly, socioeconomic circumstances.

This is all good stuff, but it has no teeth, and there's the rub. We can't know it'll make any change, and you even acknowledge that in your statement. And as Plaid Cymru's spokesperson on equalities, I want to take this opportunity to once again reiterate that, although any and all steps, of course, to try and ensure diversity in politics are always welcome, I am deeply disappointed at the rolling back by Welsh Government on the action that would have made the most significant and most immediate difference to the diversity and thus effectiveness of Welsh democracy, and that you're instead publishing this too little, too late guidance, which we know, those of us who are from underrepresented groups in politics, will not be as effective. You've undermined not only your own stated policy aims in discarding those strongest measures, but also the chance that we will ever be able to achieve those aims, given the current progressive majority in this Senedd. That is for the first female First Minister of Wales to reflect upon.

Failing to reflect our society properly not only makes the decisions made by our Senedd less effective, as you stated, it also makes them less legitimate and reinforces those barriers to elected office, compounding the perception that elected politics is the preserve of a certain type of person to the exclusion of others, which is leading to a dangerous and worrying mistrust in politics. That representation gap pervades our policies and our democracy. So, I agree with the under-represented groups identified in the guidance, and the emphasis on socioeconomic diversity is also crucial. The class ceiling, as it's called, is lowered in part by the fact that you need resources, time and money to become a candidate and to run a campaign. Those who can afford to take unpaid leave to campaign are at a distinct advantage to those potential candidates who could never afford to do so. The guidance proposes parties consider ways—consider ways—to support candidates who aren't able to fund parts of their campaign—childcare, transport—to get selected or elected, but there's not much detail there. These financial barriers that deter candidates from all under-represented backgrounds particularly affect women. So, will the Government fund new schemes to mitigate this, in line with the duties in the Elections and Elected Bodies (Wales) Act?

You talk about the Act paving the way to expand the elected office scheme, the Act's support scheme. It doesn't feel very urgent, so could you give us some more details on that? Do you agree with the recommendations of the Institute for Public Policy Research report, published on this matter in 2022, which suggested Government should legislate a right to run that ensures employers are legally obliged to allow people to take time off to run for elected office, not dissimilar to the model around jury service?

I welcome the focus on harassment. We know that can come both from the public and within parties. The guidance addresses this issue, saying the parties should create guidance, but also you're working with UK Government on measures to address this. So, what exactly are those measures? Currently, Wales has the lowest proportion of women councillors of all UK nations, and there is a lack of data on the roles women and other under-represented groups hold within parties, such as officers of local committees et cetera, and these are part of the candidate pipelines, aren't they? So, why doesn't the guidance go further on this, and how will the suggestion to collect and publish data be monitored?

How will the guidance work in collaboration and alignment with current projects to increase diversity, such as Disability Wales's access to politics grassroots network? And what extra funding will be available for groups who are doing this kind of work to facilitate the aims of the guidance? 

So, I've outlined why I think it's too little. Now I'll explain why I think it's too late: because political parties, as we see in the news every day, are already discussing, even implementing, decisions on candidate selection. Candidates are already declaring their intention to stand. Voluntary guidance that won't be ready for months really isn't going to achieve that change for the Senedd elections of 2026. So, what conversations were held with the membership of parties likely to stand in Welsh elections before producing this guidance, and do you agree running this consultation over the Christmas period is far from ideal? 

Laws that ensure fair representation are not just about political balance; they're about restoring trust in political institutions, showing that they stand with and for all communities. Plaid Cymru, I'm glad to say, is currently working on a proposal to try and ensure gender equality within our candidate selection for the 2026 election as a first step to fair representation. This will be decided upon shortly by our governing bodies. So, what progress has been made on adopting a voluntary quota system such as the one we would have seen in legislation, in your own party, Cabinet Secretary?

Thank you very much for those very important questions. 

I very much recognise the starting point that you make, about the fact that would you have sought the statutory underpinning of the gender quotas, but, of course, I think what is important is that we've now got—. We always had the duty anyway, within the Elections and Elected Bodies (Wales) Act 2024, to produce this diversity and inclusion strategy. I think it's interesting in the guidance, and you will see from the background, that we go back to 'A Parliament that works for Wales' and also the special purpose committee, all calling for that wider diversity, as well as being very committed to gender quotas and gender parity. 

So, I think it is important that parties have—. There's nothing to stop political parties from publishing diversity and inclusion strategies or candidate diversity information, and we want all parties, we want to encourage all political parties, to take these steps on a voluntary basis. But we want with this guidance to have, hopefully, a degree of consistency in terms of their approach to this, and that's why we're publishing the guidance today.

We do believe it's a catalyst for change, this guidance. There is an appetite, of course, amongst parties to do more in this area, but, when we were taking the Senedd Cymru (Electoral Candidate Lists) Bill forward, there was a real desire coming back from all parties to see not only more women in politics but greater diversity and inclusion across other characteristics. And it was good to hear that political parties were already developing strategies, and you've mentioned Plaid Cymru developing their strategy in terms of women's representation. This guidance, I believe—. It is detailed. It is evidence based. It is going to help political parties take those practical steps to improve the diversity of candidates. 

I think it's important just to say that, in terms of monitoring the guidance, there will be an opportunity after the 2026 Senedd election, through the review process that's provided in the Senedd Cymru (Members and Elections) Act 2024, to take stock of where we are. Within my statement and within the guidance, we will be expecting parties to be able to report on the data in terms of diversity of candidates within six weeks of the elections. Local government has already, under the Local Government (Wales) Measure 2011, got that in place. 

And I do agree entirely that we—. This is guidance for all Welsh elections. It's for all Welsh elections, so that's for Senedd and local government elections. And, of course, we've got some good examples in local government around job sharing of cabinet posts, and we're discussing that and it's in the guidance, and we're discussing that anyway in terms of a pilot on job sharing for committee Chairs. We do want to ensure the seventh Senedd will reflect on the diversity of the candidates that have come forward and been elected, and learn what's worked well, where we think further steps need to be taken. And there'll be full impact assessments undertaken in relation to the legislative provisions, which underpin this guidance, so we have a broad understanding of the impact on political parties and on various communities and groups. It's really important, as you say—and Darren Millar, of course, made this point too—that we support people with under-represented characteristics, socioeconomic challenges or specific circumstances, and so we're funding research into barriers, particularly those barriers in terms of those caused by socioeconomic circumstances.

Finally, because I know we've got many other questions, we will be offering a technical briefing to all Members. There's a technical briefing for political parties, and there'll be a briefing to the women's caucus as well. There will be workshops—externally organised workshops—during this period, so we are going to work at pace from today, and we hope you'll be able to join us in that effort.

Thank you for your statement, Cabinet Secretary.

I welcome the publication of this guidance today, and whilst I've not had the opportunity yet to look at it in great detail, it is certainly something I will be encouraging others and organisations to engage with and participate in the consultation. One of the reasons why I chose to stand in this place, in the Senedd, was it was much more representative than elsewhere. And whilst that has slipped back, perhaps, recently, we want to be part of building that in the future. Because it doesn't just change the face of our politics, it changes the focus of it as well. We've talked about other protected characteristics as well and, as an out lesbian, I'm very much in the minority in this place still, and I'd like to see that diversity grow in the next Senedd, because it doesn't just make for better politics, it makes for better policies based on our lived experience.

I'd just like to touch on the points made in terms of the timing of the guidance, and that political parties have already either started or are looking at their process for selecting candidates for the enlarged Senedd in 2026. So, Cabinet Secretary, can I ask if you're aware of what appetite there is, or what conversations you've had, from all parties that are currently represented in this place for a commitment not just to agree in principle, but to implement in practice part 3 of the guidance around voluntary gender quotas?

Diolch yn fawr, and those are really welcome responses and points that you made in leading up to that crucial question about where we think we are going to move forward in terms of achieving gender parity in the Senedd and in the seventh Senedd elections. I think it is really important that we are looking at this from the point of evidence of under-represented groups in this Senedd. Clearly, in terms of under-represented groups, we don't reflect the population of Wales in terms of diversity. Women make up 51.1 per cent of the population of Wales, so, clearly, gender quotas and gender parity is what we should achieve for a fully representative Senedd. I think it's also important to recognise that this isn't going to change unless we have that commitment from political parties. Obviously, our different political parties are going to take this away, and the point about part 3 was to put down the guidance on voluntary gender quotas, and I hope you'll find that valuable.

I did also just—. So, we will, I'm sure, hear from our political parties, as we move through the next few weeks, questions about the implementation of gender quotas, and there'll be opportunities, obviously, with technical briefings and with our own engagement to look at that. Also, I want to look at this from an intersectional perspective in terms of the diverse women of Wales, particularly in terms of looking at gender parity and women's representation. I'm pleased to just announce that we're funding Elect Her. We've awarded funding for this financial year and I hope that will continue, with a full-time programme co-ordinator working solely in Wales. I think some of us were at the Elect Her event when women took over the Senedd last year.

Outreach activities, grass-roots organisations, the facilitation of a network of Welsh women in elected office, and the development of a series of resources and training courses as well. So, I think that will help to move things forward. But it is for political parties to consider the evidence, the guidance. It's draft, so we look forward to the response, and I would wish to publish this as soon as possible—and that's sort of responding to Sioned's question as well—after the end of the consultation period in January. But don't forget that we won't have the final, as I said, confirmation of boundaries until, probably, the end of March—it's 1 April that they have to deliver on that—but parties are already beginning their selection processes.

There is a sizeable risk that the next Senedd will be the least gender balanced in history. That's not me saying that, that's the director of the Electoral Reform Society. So, in fact, your hope, Cabinet Secretary, that it will be more gender balanced may not be borne out. There is one political party that is not in the Senedd at the moment where there are considerable risks that we may not have women coming forward.

The evidence is clear: legislative gender quotas are the only way to achieve gender-balanced Senedds and parliaments. Back in September, I expressed my intense bitterness, sadness and upset that political expediency and party interests were prioritised over women's representation and democratic reform when it came to introducing gender quotas. Without quotas, Wales is left with a voting system that curtails choice, reduces accountability, and fails to guarantee that fair representation. 

My question to you, Cabinet Secretary—and I do welcome your commitment to this area; I know that you personally are committed, but nevertheless your Government is not—is: what is your response? When in 2026 you talk about measurable outcomes and reviewing what political parties have done, can I ask you, is that going to be statutory or is it going to be voluntary, because if it's the latter, then it will hold no water whatsoever? Thank you.

Thank you, Jane Dodds, and thank you for that warning. I would say that that warning from the director of the Electoral Reform Society is a warning for this Senedd, a warning for all political parties represented here and those who are not represented here, but who may be represented here in 2026. That's why this guidance, this consultation, is so important, and we must test political parties during this period of consultation in terms of their commitment to this being a diverse and inclusive Senedd. The statutory duty is only on us through section 30 of the Act to produce this guidance, but the implementation, as I said and as you know, is voluntary. On the other hand, political parties, if they commit themselves to following this guidance, could deliver a diverse and inclusive Senedd, and it is for political parties to think about, again, putting the statutory basis of gender quotas into their manifestos for the next election.

Indeed, as you know, and I know it was disappointing, but the issues around competence and timing meant that we weren't even going to have statutory gender quotas for 2026; it was going to be for 2030. So, these are all important points to make, but I think the guidance that I've given, that we've produced today for consultation, is actually—. We've got to make sure that people feel, 'Does this mean they want us here?', the people out there who are not represented here, who are under-represented here, and that includes not just diverse women, but black, Asian and minority ethnic people, disabled people, older people, younger people, LGBTQ+ people, and socioeconomic circumstances, we know, is—. We enacted the socioeconomic duty in the Equality Act 2010. It still hasn't yet been enacted by the UK Government. We've got to use this guidance also to build all those mechanisms of support, on which I think that, across the board, we all agree. We need mentoring, we need support, Elect Her, Equal Power, Equal Voice, and we need commitment to financial support, but also we need to demonstrate that we are an anti-racist Senedd, that our parties are, and that we are serious about bringing people forward, encouraging people to come forward and stand for election here.

I certainly hope, and I'm sure you are—. We are all, in our party, going out and calling on people to come and stand. We're having meetings. But unless we address some of the reasons why people haven't put themselves forward from under-represented groups, even if there was a statutory duty, in statute, for gender quotas, I still think we would have challenges, because politics isn't a place that many people feel they want to be, particularly because of the increasing abuse of politicians, and that point was raised earlier on, and I'm certainly working with all Governments in the UK on that issue. So, let's try and make this a positive call for the diverse people of Wales to come forward and stand for our political parties. We need hundreds of people to consider today, 'Yes, I think that seventh Senedd could be for me.'

You talked about being evidence led, but the evidence showed, whilst we were scrutinising the Bill, that gender quotas were absolutely necessary and the benefit they would have in terms of greater diversity in the Senedd. So, I don't understand this roll back from the Government on this, and I'm really concerned, because there are no repercussions, no penalties if parties do not implement the guidance. And I would like to know what funding is being set aside to support political parties in this endeavour. Because not every party does have big funders to support this work, and doing so on a voluntary basis, yes, we can ask people to come forward, but I saw the excitement from speaking to women, who would never have thought about standing, when they thought this Bill was coming into legislation, because they saw it as a game changer.

So, I really do have a lot of concerns in terms of what I've been hearing today about those mechanisms of support. What are they if they're not funded? Because things like Equal Power, Equal Voice, there's no certainty that those will continue, and so on. So, what are the practical steps and the financial support available to parties to put in place this guidance, so that we are able to bring them into effect?

Thank you very much, and I hope, Heledd—. This is draft consultation, and it's important that you do raise these issues about support. Absolutely. What support are we going to give to political parties? But more than that, what support are we going to give to the people we want to come forward and stand? This is something where we've already mentioned the fund that was developed for disabled people—the access to elected office fund—and I've already said in my statement that we're now looking at how we could use that fund and widen it out to other under-represented groups. These challenges and questions, they're already feeding in to the consultation today, so I want you to recognise that those are important points to make.

But, obviously, it's not just about finance; it is about political parties actually embracing the message of diversity and inclusion for the seventh Senedd. And this is not just a responsibility on us in Government and political parties; it's also on the Senedd Commission and the seventh Senedd committee that's meeting. It's important for the independent remuneration board of the Senedd. It's important for all of our elected bodies and their members that we look at this from a diversity perspective.

So, we're required, and I think this is an important point to make, we're actually required under the Elections and Elected Bodies (Wales) Act to include measures aimed at creating a more inclusive political environment, including establishing and maintaining this fund, not just for disabled candidates' additional costs, but also making sure that there are additional services and schemes to support people with under-represented characteristics, socioeconomic challenges, or other specific circumstances to stand. We're looking at this now in terms of barriers to standing for electoral office caused by those socioeconomic circumstances, and we'll be able to report on that very shortly.

It's also interesting that, in terms of the seventh Senedd, the independent rem board is looking at Members' pay and personal support, because this isn't just about getting people to feel that they are going to stand, that they can be selected; it's actually that you make those decisions on, 'Can I fit this into my life? With my life and my children and my family, if I've got any, or my circumstances or the issues that I face in my life'—which could be discriminatory, socioeconomic—'is it worth me putting my name forward?'

So, we've got diverse and equal leadership, women's rights, caring responsibilities. WEN Wales is taking forward work, which we're funding. Fair Treatment for the Women of Wales are also looking at the lived experiences of women and considering how that should impact on policy. We fund both WEN Wales and Fair Treatment for the Women of Wales. There's Equal Power Equal Voice; we're looking at how we can support them into the future. And I've just mentioned the Elect Her democratic engagement grant. But this is about wider intersectional diversity and inclusion, and I very much hope that political parties and Members today will take this forward and respond positively to this opportunity.

And lastly, John Griffiths.

Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd. It's a very important principle, Cabinet Secretary, that a Parliament reflects and represents all sections of the communities that it serves. I'm very pleased that you've stressed socioeconomic circumstances, because I do think they underlie all the protected characteristics, and if we get it right, as it were, with regard to social class, then we'll be going a long way to achieving that representation and reflection of our communities.

I'm pleased, also, that you've emphasised the cost of standing for election, because obviously that's highly relevant to those in more strained socioeconomic circumstances. I just wonder if you could say a little bit more about how you think it would work in social class terms, Cabinet Secretary. What sort of groups would you expect to be working with, or for the political parties to work with? There are the trade unions, the voluntary groups, the community groups, those organisations that would have within their membership and their activists people in those socioeconomic circumstances that we need to make sure are fully represented here in the next Parliament. 

Thank you, John Griffiths. I would draw your attention to the appendix of the guidance. I won't go over all of the mechanisms, the financial support et cetera that we're already looking at and considering. I've mentioned the fact that we have enacted the socioeconomic duty, and that is to improve outcomes for people experiencing socioeconomic disadvantage. And of course, this is about class, and we have to make sure that we can—. And for many people with protected characteristics, often they are also experiencing socioeconomic disadvantage as well. So, we have got to look at not just one type of barrier, but to look at it in terms of intersectional characteristics. Multiple barriers might be faced as well, and we know that that is a huge deterrent, for example for women, who perhaps have the main caring responsibilities, and single parents—it's difficult to consider the way forward in terms of, 'Could I stand?' We actually filled the Chamber last year, with Elect Her, with women from all over Wales. It was a very diverse group of women. It was a fantastic event, and people said they would put themselves forward to stand for the Senedd, for different political parties, which is what we want. But this is also about men as well as women in terms of class and socioeconomic circumstances.

Just to say, we’ve also got a national equality objective to create a Wales where everyone from a full diversity of backgrounds can participate in public life, have their voices heard, and see themselves reflected in leadership positions. I think Sioned mentioned the fact that we’re still pretty poor in terms of a diverse representation in local government. And you will see, because I’ve given some statistics in the guidance, the fact that we still have a long way to go in terms of all protected characteristics. But the same will be said about this Senedd as well. So, unless we take this sort of action, unless we get our parties to respond to the consultation and develop a diversity and inclusion strategy, adopt the voluntary gender quotas, and that’s what we’re calling for—. If we do that, then we might see that diverse seventh Senedd that we all seek to embrace and elect.

Thank you, Cabinet Secretary.

Item 6 on the agenda today is a statement by the Cabinet Secretary for Housing and Local Government on building safety. I call on the Cabinet Secretary, Jayne Bryant.

Diolch, Deputy Llywydd. The Grenfell Tower inquiry phase 2 report published in September reiterates the need for urgent and decisive action. Officials are carefully considering the report’s recommendations, but our initial view is that the recommendations align well with our intended reforms in Wales. I am therefore pleased to have this opportunity to share the progress being made to address building safety in Wales, including progress to reform the design, construction and occupation of buildings, as well as progress on remediating buildings in Wales.

I’d like to start with an update on the new building control regime in Wales. As members will be aware, a review of building safety in Wales was conducted by the Public Accounts and Public Administration Committee, the recommendations of which were published in August 2024. The Welsh Government accepted the recommendations and we are reviewing the findings to take the necessary works forward. To date, we have introduced tighter regulations of higher risk buildings, as well as a new regulatory system for registration and oversight of the building control profession, including building control approvers and building inspectors working in both the private sector and local authorities.

The next stage of reforms to the building control regime in Wales will deal with dutyholder roles, gateways, golden thread of information, mandatory occurrence reporting and compliance, and stop notices. A consultation on these reforms is scheduled for spring 2025. Today, I am pleased to confirm the building safety (Wales) Bill will be introduced before summer recess in 2025. The Bill will establish a new regime in Wales focusing on the occupation phase of a building’s life cycle. It will cover the regulation of building safety risks in multi-occupied residential buildings. The new regime will include, with some exceptions, all residential buildings that contain two or more residential units, and not just those of 18m and above.

Deputy Llywydd, accountability is at the heart of our proposals. Our plans include the introduction of accountable persons, who will be responsible for assessing and managing building safety risks in these buildings. Responsibilities will differ depending on building height, but across all in-scope buildings the proposals will place statutory duties on accountable persons, with a principal accountable person for each building having certain key duties. Certain houses in multiple occupation will be in scope of the fire safety provisions in the Bill. However, they will not be subject to the wider duties that will be introduced through the Bill, such as registration, as they are already regulated.

I'm pleased to confirm local authorities will regulate the new occupation phase regime, including holding the register of in-scope buildings. They will work closely with the fire and rescue authorities, who will remain responsible for regulating many of the fire safety measures that will form part of the Bill. As the regulators for the new regime, it is important local authorities contribute to the development of our policy for the Bill. To this end, we have held a series of workshops, attended by local authorities and the fire and rescue authorities, that have helped inform our thinking. I'm grateful to those that have attended these sessions for the time they have given to support this work.

This month, we will be delivering further workshops with local authorities to focus on resourcing implications of the new regulatory duties. We will be discussing strategies needed to ensure local authorities are ready to take on their new duties. We have commissioned an analysis of the cost and resourcing implications of the proposals, which will inform these ongoing discussions. Considerable engagement with wider stakeholders, including leaseholder representatives, managing agents and residents, has also been undertaken. Officials recently held webinar sessions, which I understand were very well attended. This engagement is crucial to ensure we have a regime that meets the needs of residents and is fit for the future.

Deputy Llywydd, I want to ensure that the new regime empowers residents by placing their lived experience, safety and well-being at its heart. The regime will set out clear requirements to support residents with enhanced rights and a stronger voice in building safety matters affecting their homes. In support of this approach, we commissioned independent researchers to engage with residents living in multi-occupied residential buildings in both the social and private sectors. The findings reinforced the importance of placing residents at the heart of our proposals. I encourage you to read the report of this engagement work, which was published on the Welsh Government’s website on 5 November. 

I'm pleased to report the joint inspection team undertook their first inspection in September 2024, in Cardiff. A risk assessment tool has been developed to prioritise buildings for inspection. It is anticipated that approximately 30 buildings will be inspected by March 2026. An evaluation of the joint inspection team is planned, with procurement under way, to ensure lessons learned from the inspections are taken forward into the new regime. Deputy Llywydd, to date, we have identified 407 buildings in our building safety remediation programme, but we know there are more. The work of the joint inspection team will support the identification of new buildings, directing them to submit an expression of interest as a first step to obtain support from the programme.

I would like to take this opportunity to provide an update on our building safety remediation programme. Forty-three per cent of these buildings have either been completed, had works started, or do not require fire safety works. Remediation plans are in development on 37 per cent of the buildings, and we are working with the remaining 20 per cent of the buildings to identify remediation work. I'm also pleased to confirm Watkin Jones plc is the twelfth developer to sign our contract. I look forward to Watkin Jones working at pace to rectify in-built fire safety issues in buildings they have developed in Wales.

Deputy Llywydd, I will be meeting developers this week and will impress upon them the urgency of remediating in-built fire safety issues. Please be assured that even if you're not seeing people in hard hats doing works, we are working closely with managing agents and developers to ensure contractors are on site and works are completed as quickly as possible. Regular updates on our remediation programme are available in our building safety newsletter, and I would encourage anyone with an interest in the programme to sign up for these updates. Diolch.

Following the Grenfell Tower disaster, there was a clear and urgent need to reflect on arrangements for building safety in Wales and across the United Kingdom, and to establish whether the building safety sector is meeting its purpose. The UK Government's response to the Hackitt inquiry was contained in the Building Safety Act 2022, Part 3 of which also applies to Wales, including allowing Welsh Ministers to define a higher risk building, requiring councils in Wales to carry out work on higher risk buildings and requiring the registration of building control staff. The principal difference between England and Wales is the role of a new building safety regulator, which will be carried out by local authorities in Wales. However, the Auditor General for Wales's report on building safety in Wales last year stated that responsible bodies, particularly local authorities and fire and rescue, are unable to effectively discharge their responsibilities and ensure that buildings in Wales are safe. So, what action are you taking with local authorities to address the concerns expressed by the auditor general about the absence of robust plans, clear decision making and adequate resources, so that they can ensure that buildings in Wales are safe?

The Welsh Government announced a consultation on the second phase of the new building control regime in Wales, due to be launched towards the end of 2024, to include duty-holder roles, including for contractors, clients and designers, gateway mechanisms during the design and construction process, and information and mandatory occurrence reporting. A consultation will also be launched regarding the planned Leasehold and Freehold Reform Act 2024, and new guidance for fire safety in purpose-built blocks of flats is being developed. What update can you therefore provide on the timelines for these, whether and when any resulting actions will be taken and how these will then be monitored and evaluated?

You confirmed today that the building safety (Wales) Bill will be introduced before the summer recess in 2025, which will presumably mean different building regulations between Wales and England. How will you therefore ensure that this won't disincentivise developers and builders from building in Wales, especially given the Chartered Institute of Building's recent report, which found that some Welsh companies prefer to seek work across the border due to bureaucratic red tape, while new policy and legislation is not filtering down to smaller construction companies? End of quote.

The Public Accounts and Public Administration Committee, which I chair, published its 'Building Safety in Wales' report in August. We heard about the workforce and service planning issues that face the industry that require further intervention and investment. It is vitally important that more is done to ensure that the industry remains an attractive place to work and attracts new candidates who can be the future of the sector. We believe that intervention from central Government is necessary to effect positive change in this area and the committee feels that the Welsh Government could quickly have a positive impact. How, therefore, do you respond to the statement in the committee report that the flow of staff from council to approved instructors has slowed in recent years, with the auditor general noting that private sector firms were now also beginning to struggle to recruit sufficiently qualified and experienced staff?

As our report states, a mixed market of both public and private sector building control services has existed in England and Wales since 1984, and the Welsh Government noted both that it would further review the mixed-market approach, pending research from the UK Government, and that a decision was taken to only allow local authorities to discharge building control functions for buildings classified as being of higher risk, in line with the recommendations of the Hackitt inquiry. Although the Welsh Government accepted our recommendation that it should develop a national building safety workforce plan, what are the timelines for this? When will it be implemented? And how will it then be evaluated and monitored? The Welsh Government accepted our recommendation that it should work with stakeholders in the building control sector to implement a nationwide scheme for the recruitment of trainees and apprentices. What are the timelines for this and when will it be implemented and how will it then be monitored and evaluated?

Finally, what action, if any, do you propose to address the situation in which leaseholders in England are able to bring action to force developers to pay their fair share of the costs of remediation, but those in Wales are having to navigate layers of bureaucracy in order to achieve similar results?

Diolch, Mark, and thank you for the series of questions within that. You started off with the issues around Grenfell, and we, as the Welsh Government, are committed to ensuring the highest standards of building safety for residents in Wales. We welcome the publication of that Grenfell inquiry phase 2 report, and we are carefully considering the findings and recommendations. We are working closely with officials at the UK Government, and further information on the Welsh Government's response to those recommendations will be announced in the new year.

You moved on to some other issues around engagement and the audit report. The Welsh Government is confident in the approach we have taken to identify buildings, with responsible persons submitting expressions of interest to the Welsh building safety programme since September 2021. However, if there is more work to do to identify every building in scope within that, we will do it. We're working closely with managing agents, as well as our recently formed joint inspection team, to target and identify further buildings, and I'd encourage responsible persons who have yet to submit expressions of interest to do so as soon as possible.

Again, with a number of points, you talked about local authorities. Our landscape of buildings and the scope of our proposals are different to England. We've only got 171 buildings of 18m and above, with up to five new buildings of this height annually. Most of these buildings are concentrated in Swansea and Cardiff. Unlike England, our proposals extend to multi-occupied residential buildings of less than 18m, so we need to tailor the regulation function to meet the needs of Wales. We do see local authorities as best placed to take the lead in regulating for wider building safety. Local authorities already hold a significant amount of experience in engaging with residents and in overseeing registration requirements for other regimes, so I think they are very much best placed to do that work.

Again, there were other points you raised around the Public Accounts and Public Administration Committee. The Welsh Government, as you know, has responded to and accepted all of those recommendations. Work is ongoing with the Welsh Local Government Association and other supporting bodies to progress those recommendations. I'm pleased to confirm that eight building control trainees have been recruited in Wales since earlier this year, with match funding from the Welsh Government and local authority building control. It's really good to see those coming through, and I look forward to more in the future, because it is really important that we have that skill set within our local authorities.

Siân Gwenllian. Siân, you're still muted—now you can start.

Thank you very much, Dirprwy Lywydd, and I welcome the opportunity to respond to this afternoon's statement on building safety, a subject that is very important and is hugely significant, particularly in light of the tragic lessons that were learned from the fire at Grenfell Tower. It is crucial that we keep a close eye on the impact of this work on the lives of residents, and on the importance of a transparent and thorough approach to building safety here in Wales.

First of all, I would like to welcome the recent contracts that have been signed with developers to ensure that remediation work is done on high-risk buildings. I'm pleased to hear that Watkin Jones has, at last, signed the agreement, and I therefore hope to see early progress in the work of making properties safe at Victoria Dock in Caernarfon in my constituency. However, the success of these agreements depends on accountability. So, how will the Welsh Government monitor and enforce progress with this remediation work in order to ensure that it is delivered within the required timetable?

Many tenants and residents have been living under clouds of uncertainty and risk for too long now, so not only do we need to ensure that developers keep to their commitments, but also that the Government has clear outcomes for any developers that fail to reach the standards, and that there are implications for those people. So, I would like to hear what steps will be taken in the case of any developer who fails to deliver against their responsibilities in a timely manner. 

Funding is clearly central to the success of the efforts in this area, and we know that the recent UK budget had allocated additional funding for building safety. Can the Minister confirm that there will be consequential funding available to Wales, and if so, how much? We need clear answers here to ensure enough funding that will decide whether we can complete the remediation work to the necessary standard and within a reasonable timetable. We have to avoid any situation where financial deficit leaves some buildings unsafe.

Finally, I’m also going to mention the recent report by Audit Wales, ‘Cracks in the Foundations’. There is still a great deal of work to be done to deliver an effective building safety framework that is sustainable in Wales. The auditor’s report draws attention to the need for better assurance systems and adequate workforce planning—both are crucial to deliver the high standards that are required. You have started to discuss this, but can you expand on what steps are being taken to tackle workforce gaps in building management, and also outline the work that's happening in terms of setting national benchmarks and outcomes for building safety?

This issue relates to people’s lives, their homes and their peace of mind. The Welsh Government needs to commit to a robust scheme that tackles not only the urgent need for remediation work, but also the structural and legislative changes that are required to ensure that such failings can never be repeated. I am pleased, therefore, to hear that there is some progress on the legislative side. I do encourage the Minister to keep transparency and the need for major structural change in play in order to ensure transparency, accountability and sufficient resources in all stages of these crucial reforms.

Diolch yn fawr, Siân, and thank you for those questions. As I mentioned initially in my response and in my answers to Mark Isherwood, we are carefully considering those findings of the Grenfell phase 2 report and the tragedy that happened. We have already taken some considerable and robust action in addressing the recommendations of previous reports, and as I’ve said today, we’ve committed to delivering the building safety (Wales) Bill by the end of this Senedd term. We have also commenced the relevant parts of the Building Safety Act 2022, to bring about the reform to the design and construction of high-risk buildings and changes to the regulation of the building control profession. Furthermore, we also launched our Welsh building safety fund to address fire safety issues in all residential buildings 11m and over. The Welsh building safety fund does look at both internal and external fire safety issues, and is not just limited to buildings with unsafe cladding.

I’m pleased to join you in welcoming the fact that Watkin Jones has recently signed, becoming the twelfth major developer to have signed our developer contract, solidifying their commitment to remediating fire safety issues for which they are responsible. I expect them now to move at pace, to understand the works required and to progress those remediation plans as quickly as possible, and I will be following that very keenly.

You raised a more general point around developers. The Welsh Government have always been clear that developers should step up to their responsibilities and put right fire safety issues in buildings they have developed over the last 30 years. The developer remediation programme is progressing well. There are currently 150 buildings covered by the developer contract, with over a third of these buildings either completed, are on site or do not require works. The progress made by developers in delivering on their obligations under the developer contract is monitored by officials and, as part of the monitoring process, should officials suspect a material breach has occurred, the Welsh Government will instigate the appropriate legal action. This will not fall to leaseholders. So far there has been no breach of the terms of contract between Welsh Government and developers. All developers are keeping us informed of the progress made, and we are keeping a very close eye on that, and I can assure all Members that that is the case.

John Griffiths, as Chair of the Local Government and Housing Committee. 

Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd. I welcome your statement today, Cabinet Secretary. As you know, the Local Government and Housing Committee is committed to scrutinising Welsh Government's progress in ensuring the highest possible standards for building safety for residents in Wales. I'm pleased to reinforce some of the messages we've heard today and from yourself as well, Cabinet Secretary, in terms of how important it is to keep those impacted well informed. We know as a committee what a worrying time it is for people living in high-rise buildings in Wales.

We've met with the Welsh Cladiators on more than one occasion, visited Celestia here in Cardiff Bay to see for ourselves what needs to be done, and we've also heard from witnesses representing disabled leaseholders affected by the crisis. We heard that remediation work can have a disproportionate impact on disabled leaseholders, both in terms of the cost of remediation and the disruption that it causes. So, I wonder, Cabinet Secretary, if you could outline what support Welsh Government is providing, particularly for those disabled leaseholders.

We've also received a letter from the Welsh Cladiators just this week setting out their struggles and concerns about developers’ actions, or lack of actions, in terms of that necessary remediation work. The remediation work to the Celestia complex that we visited is now expected to take three years, despite leaseholders being told that the project was on track to be completed in two years. Last month we asked how many buildings are behind schedule for remediation when you were before us, Cabinet Secretary, and you said that works are expected to continue over the next five years. Could you confirm whether any of the developers are behind schedule with remediation works and, if any are, has Welsh Government considered or will Welsh Government consider legal action? Diolch yn fawr.

Diolch, John, and thank you for your questions and the work that I know the Local Government and Housing Committee has done on this, and the Members, which you are the Chair of.

First of all, absolutely, I completely agree that it's so crucial that we can keep the people impacted informed. I think we all understand how difficult it must be if people are in that situation, and how worried and anxious they would be. So, we all very much understand that. Updates of the programme and the progress are available via the building safety newsletter, which is published on a quarterly basis, and I would encourage all Members to make sure that, if they have got residents contacting them, that they have access to that building safety newsletter.

From December we will be including the performance of developers signed up to the contract, so I think that is also a big step and that people will actually be able to see how quickly or not the developers are doing that work. I think that's another step towards keeping the people impacted informed.

In terms of the question you raised specifically around disabled people, again, our position has always been that no leaseholder should be paying for in-built fire safety remediation. We would expect those responsible for delivering the fire safety works to engage with the responsible person on the specific needs of a resident with a vulnerability or/and a disability.

My officials are currently considering a leaseholder forum. I met with the Cladiators representatives last week and I welcomed the opportunity to discuss with them their concerns regarding the fire safety of buildings in Wales. The meeting was productive and informative, and during that meeting I listened very carefully to the calls for a victims forum. I've asked my officials to explore how we may help leaseholders to connect and share experiences and learning on fire safety. So, I think, again, that is something that came from that meeting that I'm keen to look into. 

In terms of whether developers are behind schedule with remediation work, the programme, as I've said, is progressing well. There are currently 150 buildings covered by the developer contract, as I said, with over a third of these buildings either completed, are on site, or do not require works. The progress made by developers is monitored closely by officials and, again, should officials suspect a material breach has occurred, the Welsh Government will instigate the appropriate legal action. No breach, again, has occurred to date. 

Where there are issues impacting pace of delivery, officials are working with related parties to remove those barriers so works can begin as soon as possible. So, we are really keeping a very close eye on this, and, as I said in the statement, it might not be that people see those people in hard hats on the ground, but there is work going on behind the scenes to make sure that this is done at pace. 

I know you have mentioned the committee's visit to Celestia. I am aware of the updated work schedule proposed at the conclusion of a competitive tender process. Officials are working with both parties, encouraging that they work together to progress works as quickly as possible.  

Do you know, Cabinet Secretary, I've been working on this now for about four years, prior to my colleague, Mark Isherwood? And it has to be said that I am still now being contacted regularly by people who say they feel they're in a desperate situation, they say the situation makes it impossible for them to be able to put up a fight, they are completely despondent. And let's not forget—these people are living in unsafe, at-risk-of-fire properties, and they're unsellable, and they are stuck in that situation. 

In the four years, we've been promised about the contract, we've been promised lots by the Welsh Government. I realise you are new in portfolio, but only 2 per cent of these buildings have completed the required safety work. The statement in September mentions progress on the Building Safety (Wales) Bill to enhance safety in multi-occupied buildings and to regulate construction. However, the legislation will not be actually introduced and finalised until 2026. That's eight years after Grenfell and two years from now. So, Cabinet Secretary, please will you accelerate this process? 

Finally, I am aware that Celestia's board of management have desperately requested to see the three tender submissions for the remediation works to be carried out at Celestia. Will you take it upon yourself to ensure that that management board is given the ability to see those three tender submissions for the remediation works?  

Diolch, Janet, and for the work that you've been doing over a number of years in this area. As I said, I did meet with the Cladiators last week and it was a good opportunity to discuss their concerns on the fire safety of buildings in Wales. I've also met with the wider stakeholder group. That was the first meeting that I had when I came into post about a month ago now, or maybe nearly two months ago now. I was keen to hear from everybody within that situation, because it is something that we do—. Again, as I highlight and emphasise, none of us want to be in that situation, least of all the people who are thinking about this day in, day out, so I do really hear that.

You raised some points around the speed, I think, of the work that's going on. Again, I reiterate, it isn't the fact that we are—. There might not be people in hard hats or people doing the work, and I realise that's quite a visual thing, but there is work going on, and I can assure Members here that officials are really focused on this and monitoring it very closely.

Our progress is comparable to England, and progress in Wales is significantly ahead of Scotland and Northern Ireland. The progress in Wales relates to both social and private tenures and both internal and external fire safety issues. So, it's not limited to buildings with unsafe cladding, as is the case elsewhere. Again, I just want to offer my assurance that everything possible is being done to deliver the remediation programme at pace, and progress is being made, with more buildings starting work.

Again, the Welsh Government has always been clear that the developers should step up to their responsibility and put right fire safety issues. I am meeting developers next week, so that will give me an opportunity to stress that to them myself personally as well. So, again, I can assure Members that I will be doing that when I meet the developers.

Good afternoon, Cabinet Secretary. Grenfell happened seven years ago. The Grenfell phase 2 report was released in September. You can understand the level of frustration that there is amongst those who are suffering right now that this is taking so long. The mental health and the trauma experienced right now by the people in those buildings—and this is going back many, many years, as you've heard from Janet, and I'm sure you'll hear from others as well—are significant. One of the issues that they raise is about communication, that they don't know what's happening, they don't know how it's going to happen or what the timescales are.

I know you've met with the Welsh Cladiators once. Can you tell us what your plans are in meeting with them again, what your plan is for communication with all of those affected, going ahead, for them to know exactly what the situation is and how the Welsh Government is going to continue to support them in ensuring that this happens as quickly as it can? We will be, as Janet has said, eight years since 72 people died at Grenfell, and it really isn't acceptable that it's taken this long in Wales. Diolch yn fawr iawn.

Diolch, Jane. Absolutely, the lessons from the Grenfell tragedy highlighted the need for clear accountability in relation to those who own and manage relevant buildings. As I said, I do keep very much at the heart, when I'm thinking around this, the people who are living in those properties. I think that we all can understand that, and the need and the keenness to see this done as quickly as possible. I'm sure all of us want that to be done as quickly as possible, and I can assure you I am as impatient as other Members are here.

Again, we are doing some really good things here in Wales. Our progress is comparable to England, and progress, again, in Wales is significantly ahead of Scotland and Northern Ireland. I've been able to discuss this with colleagues in portfolios at the British-Irish Council, when I first came into post, so I'm keen to listen and to follow any good ideas and what Members in other countries are doing. But they've been keen to listen to us as well.

In terms of the communication, again I'd like to highlight the newsletter that is available to all residents. That is quarterly, and I would encourage Members to read that as well, as well as to share that, because, again, it's a way of us communicating as clearly as possible. And, as I said, during my meeting that I had with the Cladiators, they raised the issue of a victims forum. Again, I'm very keen to think about how we can follow that up. So, as I said, I've asked my officials to explore how we can help leaseholders to connect and share those experiences and learning on fire safety, so I can certainly keep Members updated on that progress as well, but it is something that I—. I listened very carefully when the Cladiators raised that.

I agree with the Grenfell Tower inquiry phase 2 on the need for urgent and decisive action. I'm pleased that the Minister and the Welsh Government accept the recommendations of the Public Accounts and Public Administration Committee. I welcome the commitment to introduce the building safety Bill before the summer recess in 2025 and to involve local authorities, who will regulate, in the development of the Bill. The involvement of wider stakeholders, including leaseholders, representatives of managing agents, and most importantly residents, is obviously welcome. I welcome the work being done to buildings needing remediation. 

Can I just talk about the Altamar building in Swansea, which is in my constituency? It's one of the buildings needing remediation. My constituents living there are frustrated about the amount of time Bellway are taking to carry out the necessary work. I welcome that you are meeting developers and impressing on them the importance of remediating fire safety issues. Will you be asking developers for an updated timeline for the remediation of each building, because it seems to be a very long time since Grenfell?

Diolch, Mike. Absolutely. We're carefully considering the findings and recommendations of Grenfell inquiry phase 2, as I've mentioned, and we will provide an update in the new year. 

Absolutely, Mike, I really welcome your warm words for the statement this afternoon. I thought you'd bring up Altamar, Mike. I know that you have done in terms of this, and spoken up for your constituents at every opportunity on this. And actually, Deputy Llywydd, I thought I was meeting the developers next week, but I can see here that I'm actually meeting them tomorrow, so it's brought it forward, so I'm actually going even quicker than I thought I would be. So, it will be tomorrow, and I'd like to say that this is the impact of the Senedd Members here who have encouraged me to bring forward that meeting, but it is tomorrow. It's not appropriate for me to discuss the specific buildings issues today. Officials are aware of the points that you raise, Mike, with Altamar, and they're working with all parties to progress that work as swiftly as possible, and I can assure you that I will raise that in my meeting tomorrow as well.

Finally, Rhys ab Owen.

Thank you, Deputy Llywydd, and thank you, Cabinet Secretary.

It's clear from all contributions and from speaking to leaseholders that accountability and transparency are the two big issues. An example of that, as raised by the Chair of the housing committee, is Celestia, which is just around the corner. At the end of October, they found out in a meeting attended by Welsh Government officials that the remediation work was going to take two and a half years rather than two years. Two days later, it had increased to three years. No reason was provided as to why. Janet Finch-Saunders mentioned the tendering process at Celestia. I notice you didn't answer the question, perhaps you can't, but there were three tendering processes for the remediation work at Celestia. Redrow has refused to publish the tendering process. Now, imagine having work at your home, three firms have tendered for that work, and you're not allowed to see the tenders at all. It breeds cynicism, it breeds concern, and it's not the transparency that we need. So, what steps will the Cabinet Secretary take to ensure that developers are transparent and are held accountable? Diolch yn fawr.

Diolch, Rhys, and thank you for raising this again on behalf of your constituents. Absolutely, accountability is at the heart of our proposals, and we want to ensure that there will be an identifiable person or persons responsible for assessing and managing building safety risks in these buildings, and the proposals will put in place statutory duties to assess and manage building safety risk on that accountable person. So, I can assure you that accountability really is there in our proposals.

In terms of the work and the issues you raised with Celestia, I'm aware of the updated work schedule proposed on the conclusion of a competitive tender process. Officials are working with both parties to encourage them to work together to progress as quickly as possible. The tender process considered several factors, such as resident safety, quality and the standard of works, and not just cost. All developers will be required to obtain any required building control consents relating to the project, as well as to provide evidence to Welsh Government demonstrating that the works have been completed to the standard required.

But also, perhaps I could just add that I am looking—. Because I know Members have raised specific issues with buildings, one of the things I've asked officials to look at is how I can keep Members informed in between questions, so we are looking at, perhaps, some informal briefings. So, I'll make sure Members are updated on that.

Thank you, Cabinet Secretary.

We need now a motion to suspend Standing Orders to allow the next item of business, and so the Cabinet Secretary for Transport and North Wales to move the motion formally.

Formally move the motion to suspend Standing Orders.

Formally.

And unless anybody objects, we will—. I see that no-one is objecting. So, we agree the motion to suspend Standing Orders, which allows us to hold the debate on remembrance.

The Cabinet Secretary for Transport and North Wales, therefore, to move the motion. Ken Skates.

Llywydd, thank you. This debate is an annual opportunity for Members across the Senedd to make their voices heard as we remember all those who died or have been injured in the line of duty in defence of the United Kingdom. I know this is a time of personal reflection, including for Senedd Members and Commission staff who've served themselves or who have family members who have or are serving in the armed forces around the world today. And this debate comes at a time when, internationally, we see the tragedy and loss caused by warfare. This includes the devastating impact on innocent civilians caught up in conflicts.

This has been a busy time for Senedd Members and communities across Wales, who have come together, as they do each year, to remember. It's important that we take this opportunity to recognise the enduring importance of the remembrance period to families and communities in Wales. We must also pay tribute to the service and sacrifice of individuals from across Wales who now serve or have served in our armed forces, and acknowledge the tireless work of organisations, individuals and volunteers who support our armed forces community and veterans across Wales.

In terms of the enduring importance of remembrance to families and communities across Wales, each year there are significant anniversaries to mark. In June, we marked the eightieth anniversary of D-day, and our First Minister attended the UK commemoration at the British memorial in Normandy. D-day marked the start of a long campaign to liberate north-west Europe. The Deputy First Minister and Senedd Members recently attended the eightieth anniversary of the liberation of the Dutch town of 's-Hertogenbosch by the 53rd (Welsh) Infantry Division. And we also remember the breadth of backgrounds of those who served. My Cabinet colleague Jane Hutt attended the annual black, Asian and minority ethnic remembrance in Cardiff on Saturday, with Windrush and Butetown elders speaking movingly for their communities.

The second world war generation has, sadly, largely passed away. We have a younger generation of veterans for whom recent conflicts, including Northern Ireland, the Falklands, the Gulf, the Balkans, Kosovo and Afghanistan, remain fresh and difficult memories.

In terms of the enduring importance of remembrance, this year the Welsh Government provided funding for renovation and painting of the memorial in Pilckem ridge, Langemark. And we're also providing ongoing funding to the Commonwealth War Graves Commission for maintenance and renovation of the memorials at Langemark, Gheluvelt, St. Jean-les-Ypres and Mametz wood.

The armed forces covenant acknowledges the unique nature, the service and sacrifice of service life for those who serve and their families, while serving, and also as veterans. And the covenant is also there for the bereaved. It places a legal duty on local authorities, health boards and schools to have due regard for the armed forces community. It is an enduring duty, and one which the Welsh Government is committed to supporting.

The Veterans' Commissioner for Wales, in his annual report, offered the headline that Wales remains a pretty good place to be a veteran. This was qualified praise. His assessment of services for veterans covered a range of areas, many devolved and some reserved, and he highlights areas where he would like to see more action, including from Welsh Government. We continue to invest in support through our armed forces community, through Veterans' NHS Wales, and through our armed forces liaison officers, and I know how much both are valued. Not all initiatives need to be veteran or armed forces community-specific, but we should certainly be thinking of the needs of this community when developing policy, and the legal duty it places on public bodies.

Our review of homelessness legislation is a good example of the way it has identified the armed forces community as a distinct group. Our work supporting amputee veterans, described by Blesma, the limbless veterans charity, as 'leading the way' in the UK, is another example of where we are delivering. And I'm also pleased to be able to share how we have updated our online support guide, providing information and contacts for the armed forces community living in Wales. We published our refreshed version yesterday, which we will work with the Ministry of Defence and partners to promote.

I was also pleased to recently meet Alistair Carns, my UK ministerial counterpart, to discuss the needs of service personnel, their families, and veterans in Wales. Devolved services—health, housing, education and employment—are key to those who serve, those ending their service, and those who have served.

And so, in acknowledging the tireless work of individuals, organisations and volunteers who support our armed forces community, Members will join with me in noting the continued work of the Royal British Legion in support of remembrance nationally and locally. Our branch members and volunteers across Wales deserve our thanks and respect for the time and effort they put in, collecting for the poppy appeal, and co-ordinating local acts of remembrance. I think we are blessed to have a multitude of third sector organisations working to support veterans through hubs, drop-in centres, and many different activities, and I'm sure Members will also wish to raise examples of the remarkable work that goes on in their constituencies and regions.

In the public sector, we have a very strong and supportive infrastructure. In local authorities and in health, we have armed forces champions, supported by lead officers, armed forces liaison officers, and other posts. Supporting Service Children in Education continues its support to service children in our schools across Wales and is funded by Welsh Government. And we should also celebrate our supportive employers, those who signed the armed forces covenant, and those who chose to be part of the defence employer recognition scheme. Llywydd, I look forward to Members' contributions and to responding in due course.

I have selected the amendment to the motion, and I call on Peredur Owen Griffiths to move the amendment, tabled in the name of Heledd Fychan.

Thank you, Llywydd, and I move the amendment.

I was honoured to attend the national remembrance service this Sunday on behalf of Plaid Cymru, as well as a local service in Caerphilly afterwards. Both services were profoundly moving and well supported. Plaid Cymru and the Scottish National Party also jointly laid a wreath at the Cenotaph to acknowledge the service and sacrifice of those across Wales who currently serve, or have served, in the armed forces. I'd like to focus my statement today largely on the support available for our veterans.

Too many people leave our armed forces and face financial hardship, mental health problems, isolation and homelessness. These issues are significantly more prevalent among the veterans population than in the general population in Wales. Across Wales and England, veterans are having to go without essentials. It is estimated that, over the last 12 months, three in 10 adults who have previously served in the UK armed forces have reported they are worried about food running out before they have money to buy more. This is nearly double the number of people who experience food insecurity when nobody in their household has ever served in the UK armed forces. It's not acceptable that those who have given so much for their country should be left to go hungry. Research from the Trussell Trust found that nearly one in 10 veterans struggled to keep up with their bills and credit commitments.

Meanwhile, the charity Helping Homeless Veterans UK claims that 80 per cent of the cases it deals with in Wales and England are veterans who have been evicted from private rental accommodation. The financial situation many veterans find themselves in doesn't just impact their material well-being, but also has an impact on their mental health. The Trussell Trust have found that nearly one in five veterans have struggled to sleep because of their financial situation. Given that more than 77 per cent of veterans in Wales suffered at least one military trauma, they need to be doing more to protect our veterans' mental health and well-being, not adding to it. It saddens me that we have these debates every year, but we hear so little improvement in the figures. The UK and Welsh Governments must do more to improve the services offered to our ex-armed service workers. I heard what you said, Cabinet Secretary, about the veterans covenant, but it doesn't seem to go far enough. We need to do better. 

Finally, I'd like to acknowledge some of the conflicts and wars currently happening across the world. Recently, we marked a year since the horrific 7 October attack in Israel, followed by the bombardment of Palestine, with escalating conflict in Lebanon. I worry that we are approaching three years of war in Ukraine, and the conflict in Sudan is intensifying, not to mention the other conflicts around the globe. We must continue to stand strong in calling for a ceasefire and an end to war in these places, the release of hostages, the continuing provision of humanitarian aid and an end to arms sales. We must not forget the victims of war and should do more as a country to achieve peaceful solutions to conflicts, as we move forward. The refrain we heard over the weekend echoes from the end of the first world war. It says, 'Never again'. Isn't it time that we heeded those words and turned them into action? Diolch.

Can I declare an interest as a member of the board of the Reserve Forces and Cadets Association for Wales?

I want to echo much of what has been said in the Chamber already this afternoon about the need for us as a nation to continue to be committed to our veterans and to ensure that Wales is an armed forces-friendly nation. I believe that we truly are. We've made huge improvements over the 17 years that I've been a Member of the Senedd at engaging with our veteran community and our armed forces family, and we've realised real improvements in the services that are available for them all. 

Like many people in this Chamber, I was present at a cenotaph, in Colwyn Bay, as it happens, in my own constituency, this year, but I know that many other people will have been at events in theirs in order to participate in acts of remembrance. It's important that we all do that and that we participate, and that we show our support and our respect for all of those who've fallen, for all of those who were casualties, all of those who've suffered as a result of war and, indeed, survived wars, too.

We mustn't forget either that this is not just about the first world war and the second world war, but it really is about all of those other conflicts since, in which Welsh men and women have been, unfortunately, embroiled and involved. There were some key anniversaries this year that we were reminded of by our friends in the Royal British Legion, in a briefing, and I think it's correct for me just to list those, if I may. The first one is the eightieth anniversary of D-day, which we've marked this year. Then, there's the eightieth anniversary of the battle of Kohima, which we've marked this year; the eightieth anniversary of the battle of Imphal that we've marked this year. And then more recent conflicts: the twenty-fifth anniversary of the Kosovo conflict and the tenth anniversary of Operation Herrick, which of course was the military operations in Afghanistan, which also affected people across these islands that we represent. 

The Cabinet Secretary made reference specifically to a commemoration event that took place recently in the Dutch city of 's-Hertogenbosch, where they marked the eightieth anniversary of Operation Alan. And it was very appropriate, therefore, that Alun Davies was present with me at those commemorations, along with the Deputy First Minister, in order to just see how important it is for that particular city, which claims to be the most Welsh city in the Netherlands—and I can tell you, there were plenty of Welsh flags being flown around that city, and I know the former First Minister was there for the seventy-fifth anniversary of these events—but just how proud and how glad that city was to have been liberated by those troops from the fifty-third Welsh division all those years ago. We were guests of the mayor, Jack Mikkers, who told us that every single day, while he's in the town hall, he is reminded of that liberation, because the names of the soldiers that liberated that city are etched into the windows of the town hall. They etched them after liberating that town from the evils of the Nazi regime that had oppressed it for such a long time.

I think it's difficult for us in this nation, having not been occupied by the evil of the Nazis, to understand or comprehend what it must have been like to live under that sort of oppression. So, we must always make sure that we remember the extremely difficult circumstances that our troops often go into. Some of the figures cited about the liberation of 's-Hertogenbosch were quite remarkable. Not only were there 146 soldiers, the youngest of whom was 19, the eldest of which was just 39, that were killed in that battle to liberate that town, but they were part of a 15,000-strong division that started in northern France and eventually made its way all the way to Hamburg. By the time it got to Hamburg, only 5,000 of those troops had not fallen casualty in some way, shape or form. Just think about the impact that that must have had on each and every one of them under the leadership of Major General Robert Knox Ross, and some of his family members were there in 's-Hertogenbosch this year.

These are some of the things that we must always make sure that we remember and we must always ensure that we are cognisant of the fact that there are always improvements that can be made to the services that we provide, absolutely. And I would firmly say on the record, Peredur, that I do believe that we do need to make more inroads in terms of veterans' housing solutions, which was something that you specifically referred to. But more than that, we need to make sure that our Veterans' Commissioner for Wales is a permanent feature and appointment in our country, so that we can ensure that that person makes sure that we all do our bit to uphold the armed forces covenant. We must continue to invest in Veterans NHS Wales and make sure that those peer mentors, that are not available in some parts of the country, are in the future. And we must also do everything that we can to work together collaboratively on these things on a cross-party basis in order to realise the very best for those that we represent.

I welcome the opportunity to participate in this debate today.

It remains important that we all pause to reflect and remember those who have served, and, of course, those who made the ultimate sacrifice, alongside recommitting our collective effort to advancing the calls for peace, and advocating for an end to all conflict. It's proper that we have this annual debate in this place as well as paying our own respects in communities across our constituencies over remembrance weekend. This period of remembrance becomes all the more important as the years pass from the wars from which the acts of remembrance emanated.

I was actually reflecting over the weekend how, when I was a child and took part in the remembrance service at Connah's Quay cenotaph, first with the Brownies and later with the Guides, just how many veterans were there then who had fought in the second world war. That is not the same today, and if history is not to repeat itself, and we are to value democracy and not view peace as a given, then we must continue to find ways to remember. With that in mind, I want to pay tribute today to the work of Flintshire War Memorials, established by my constituents Viv and Eifion Williams, and supported by a team of wonderful volunteers and prolific researchers like Mavis Williams. The aim was to ensure that those who gave their lives are not only to be names on stones, by researching and sharing information about the mostly young men of Flintshire who gave their lives in both the first and second world wars.

It's through Mavis's work that my mum and I have learnt more about our own family. James and John Brockley enlisted together to the 8th Battalion, Royal Welch Fusiliers in world war one. They had consecutive service numbers and served in Dardanelles. James was killed by sniper fire. John was injured, and, after hospitalisation, returned home without his brother. Another brother, Harold, followed after James was killed and served in the 17th Battalion, Royal Welch Fusiliers in France. Harold was gassed and sent home. There were 11 Brockley children in total; three of them—James, John, and Harold—served in the first world war, and their two younger brothers, Roger and Arthur, in the second world war. Only Arthur came home from that war, and my namesake, my great-nana Hannah, lost an older brother in one war, and a younger brother in another.

Llywydd, I've touched on how, with each passing year, there are fewer of that brave second world war generation with us. Colleagues would have heard me talk here before about my great-uncle Tom. Private Thomas Edward Oldfield served in the Royal Army Service Corps, and was part of the D-day landings at Arromanches. Tom actually met his uncle Arthur Brockley on the beach in France. His uncle asked Tom, 'What are you doing here?' The reply came along the lines of, 'The same thing as you.' I understand, given the setting and the circumstances, the exchange was in what we would term as unparliamentary language. For very many years, Tom was a familiar face at remembrance services in Connah's Quay, and he remained, rightly, incredibly proud of his service. It's right that I pay tribute to Tom here again today, as he sadly passed away aged 97 in September this year. We will remember him, we will remember them. Rhag inni anghofio.

Today, as we did on Sunday, as we did yesterday, the eleventh of the eleventh at 11 a.m., we all come together to show our respect and to honour the sacrifices of countless brave men and women who gave their lives for our freedom. One point two million British personnel lost their lives during the first and second world wars, and my colleague Darren Millar has eloquently said about the numerous wars we've seen since. We must not only remember, but we need to learn from their sacrifice.

Across Wales, several of us took part in ceremonies surrounded by symbols of remembrance, the poppies, the wreaths and the solemn silence serving as powerful reminders of the profound cost of war and the lasting legacy of courage. Here in Llandudno, we have seen remarkable displays. Llandudno has been home to the longest yarn, and that was a month-long Llandudno tribute from 2 to 27 October 2024 to the war effort behind the D-day landings of 1944. This was every community under Allied control, including those in today's Commonwealth countries, formerly under British Empire rule, who played a vital part in pushing back against the Nazi forces, which ultimately hastened the end of world war two in Europe and won peace at that time.

There's been a modern-day, three-dimensional equivalent of the Bayeux tapestry depicting D-day in 80 panels on tour throughout the UK and the United States of America, a full-sized knitted Churchill AVRE tank, a gown of poppies, stunning D-day-themed post box toppers, and it was just the whole exhibition. Thousands went through the church to see all these hand-made poppies and the work that has been contributed to by people from around the world.

One hundred and ten and 80 years ago, a generation rose to face unimaginable challenges. They were ordinary people who displayed extraordinary valour, sons and daughters, fathers and mothers, brothers and sisters, friends and fellow citizens. Some left their homes and loved ones to serve on distant battlefields, others laboured tirelessly on the home front, supporting their nation's efforts in every way, all playing their part, united by a common purpose: to protect our values of liberty, justice and peace. The same is true, sadly, today, as men and women from Wales and across the UK continue to answer the call of duty. For many, the first step through the doors of their—.

Oh, the blind veterans in Llandudno, I wanted to mention those. Their veterans were out; it was a cold day, wet and windy, on Sunday, and they were there. They have to try to learn to rebuild their lives after sight loss. This armed forces charity is a trusted source of support for serving personnel. Founded in 1885, we're extremely proud of their long-standing heritage and all the work they do.

By fostering dialogue, compassion and justice, we can honour the memory of those who fall by working toward a world where future generations live free from the devastation of war. The greatest tribute we can pay to the fallen is to build a world worthy of their sacrifice and a world that becomes at peace and remains at peace. And can I just also say that, during wars, we've seen several horses carrying men that sadly died—that's why people wear, now, the purple poppy—and also dogs that were killed during the war? May we never forget any of them; we will remember them all. Diolch.

Rhianon Passmore.

Diolch. Thank you. It's been withdrawn. Thank you.

Alun Davies.

I'm grateful to you, Presiding Officer. Can I also declare an interest as a member of the Reserve Forces and Cadets Association for Wales board? I think remembrance is both a personal and a collective experience for us all. I certainly was thinking of my family, friends, neighbours and communities as I stood in silence with the people of Abertillery last Sunday morning, and, again, standing with the people of Nantyglo and Blaina a few hours later, thinking also of the communities that have lost and the people who continue to suffer as a result of war. For all of us, it is an intensely personal experience. My thoughts were also with the people in the middle east who have suffered and are suffering today as we debate these matters.

My thoughts are also with the people I was with in Ukraine two weeks ago—myself, Mick Antoniw and many others—sitting in a shelter, listening to an air raid siren wailing in a European capital. All too often, remembrance isn't about the past, but about the present and the impact on people today. There will be another raid on Kyiv this evening, there will be more loss in Gaza and Lebanon in the next week, and I hope that we all, in a personal and collective way, remember all those who are suffering because of the reality of war in our continent and elsewhere today.

I was also thinking—I was listening to Hannah Blythyn speak—about the wartime generation, who are passing today. Like Hannah, I was a Scout in Tredegar some years ago now, and I stood in front of the cenotaph and I looked at those middle-aged men who'd fought in the second world war, all of whom were younger than I am today, and all of whom stood there with their own thoughts, in silence, thinking of their losses and thinking of their comrades and colleagues who weren't there around the cenotaph with them. But also, it's coming together, collectively. Visiting the Falklands earlier this year, we stood in front of the Falklands memorial, with Falkland islanders who remembered war in their home and who remembered the people who had liberated them, and remember, today, the people who lie, who never left the Falklands, but who are laying in the soil of the Falklands—people who liberated them and lost their lives by doing so. And that collective memory and that collective gratitude of people is as real today as it has been at any time.

And then to walk the streets of 's-Hertogenbosch early last month, along with Darren Millar and the Deputy First Minister, to see the gratitude of the people of that Dutch city towards Wales and those young Welsh soldiers who'd liberated them from Nazism 80 years ago. Down the generations, that memory is a real memory. It's a memory that is honoured every year in that city, where people stand and bow their heads in front of that memorial to the 53rd (Welsh) Infantry Division. And when the Scouts and the cadets from Wales and from the Netherlands walked together, with a candle in the cathedral, a candle representing every single one of the soldiers who had died to liberate that city, you saw another generation, joining remembrance, and something they themselves will hand over to future generations.

And for all of us today, as politicians in different political parties and reaching out across the Chamber, the armed forces covenant is the way in which we say 'thank you' to all generations of the military and armed forces who have served and lost and sacrificed for all of us, so that we can debate these issues and disagree in peace in this Chamber. The values that we fought for in the second world war, the values that we fought for in the Falklands, are the values that are being fought for today by people in Ukraine: the values of freedom and democracy, of decency. The values for which generations of people have given their lives are the way in which we must also, not just on 11 November, not just on Remembrance Sunday, but every day of the year through the covenant, say 'thank you'.

Thank you to each and every one of you who has served in our armed forces and with others: those people who have lost loved ones, people who are losing people now and people who remember that loss. Together, we must always remember, and as a nation we do remember, and we will always remember. Thank you.

Over the weekend, yesterday and today, we have gathered and are gathering here with poppies close to our hearts, a familiar symbol that represents a profound, often unspoken, truth: these flowers honour the members of the armed services who have fallen. But these poppies also serve as witnesses to countless civilians whose lives have been irrevocably scarred by war. 

In Wales we know this truth well. During the second world war, our communities opened their doors to more than 110,000 evacuated children fleeing conflict. Bombing raids over Cardiff and Swansea demonstrated first-hand how far war reaches beyond the battlefield, invading ordinary lives and blurring the line between soldier and civilian.

More than a century since the first Remembrance Day, the painful truth of war remains ever present in places like Ukraine, Gaza, Sudan, Lebanon and too many other corners of our world: those with no part in conflict still suffer its heaviest costs. According to Action on Armed Violence, civilian casualties from air strikes, bombings and artillery in 2023 reached levels not seen in over a decade, and this year is already set to exceed that.

Across the world, war continues to uproot families, fracture communities and dismantle what generations have built. As we remember those losses, we must reflect on these deeper meanings. Our remembrance must be more than silence, it must call us to action. Here in the Senedd, we have a responsibility to champion diplomacy, foster understanding and support every effort to prevent conflict. So, as we honour the sacrifices of those who have fallen, let us also resolve to say, 'No more.' Though we cannot change the past, we must strive for a future where peace is not just a prayer, but a promise that we keep. In the words of Eleanor Roosevelt:

'It isn’t enough to talk about peace. One must believe in it. And it isn’t enough to believe in it. One must work at it.'

Diolch yn fawr iawn.

It was truly humbling and a huge privilege for me to participate, as I do every year, in a number of Remembrance Week events in my home city and constituency of Wrexham, and it was good to have you, Cabinet Secretary, alongside me and other colleagues laying a wreath at the cenotaph on Sunday on behalf of the Welsh Government. The opportunity to stand together with so many people from our military, our veterans and our wider armed forces family to honour those who made the ultimate sacrifice to help maintain the freedom we enjoy was truly inspirational.

Freedom is not a matter to be taken lightly. It is, perhaps, too easy for us to lose sight of how fortunate we are to have the freedoms we enjoy, freedoms that for so many people across the globe are unobtainable. Of course, it is not only those who made the ultimate sacrifice we remember. We remember also those who've suffered life-changing injuries, both mental and physical, ensuring our freedoms are maintained, and we also remember their families and friends. We also share our pride and sincere gratitude to those who currently serve in every arm of our armed forces.

Wrexham is a city with a proud military tradition, and it was heartwarming to see so many people attend the cenotaph services on Remembrance Sunday, and yesterday’s Armistice Day’s service. And the numbers of people involved every year appear to increase. It is fantastic too to see the younger generation attending in such large numbers. Witnessing so many young people taking part is both pleasing and reassuring, and it’s an important factor in ensuring, as a country, we continue to honour the words from the famous poem ‘For the Fallen’, from the time of the first world war in 1914:

‘At the going down of the sun and in the morning / We will remember them.’

This remembrance period came at the end of a particularly poignant year with the eightieth anniversary of the D-day landings that, of course, took place in Normandy on 6 June 1944. Along with so many other important dates, events and campaigns through the generations, including, more recently, Afghanistan, it was good to see the prominence to the D-day landings during the festival of remembrance televised on Saturday evening. I agree wholeheartedly with the many people who’ve spoken to me, having watched that programme, that this year’s event was truly remarkable.

I would like to say a personal 'thank you' to the Royal British Legion, not just for their work locally, but also for hosting such a thought-provoking, memorable and, at times, truly heartbreaking, but also wonderfully uplifting festival. I am proud of our armed forces communities and the considerable contribution they make, and I’m proud of the well-deserved support we in Wales deliver for our veterans, of whom there are many, not only in and around Wrexham, but right across our country. And I particularly welcome the undertakings made by the Welsh Government about continued support for our armed forces liaison officers. They provide an excellent service to our veterans on the ground, and I for one say ‘long may it continue’. Diolch.

I was named after my grandfather's brother, Dafydd Rhys Thomas from Treorchy, who died in the first battle of the Somme aged just 25. Their older brother, the Rev Degwel Thomas from Neath, participated in recruitment meetings. In a speech on the Gnoll during half time of a rugby match between Swansea and Neath in 1915, he was delighted that 368 boys from his chapel had joined the armed forces. Within a year, his brother had died. He did not have the opportunity to marry his fiancé, and he did not have the opportunity to experience again the companionship of the household, as he said in his letters home from the trenches. And also, by the end of the war, 20 members of Degwel Thomas's chapel in Neath had died.

In a letter to my great-grandparents, Dafydd Rhys Thomas’s comrade wrote how he died from a shrapnel wound. And this is what they say, 'We buried him as well as we could, but then a shell landed.' There's no grave for Dafydd Rhys.

He is one of the millions of people who died in a pointless war.

In the Tabernacl chapel in the centre of Cardiff, there's a wooden plaque on the wall, carved with a penknife by a prisoner of war in the infamous Changi prison in Singapore. On it are 17 names from Cardiff and the Rhondda valley of men who died during the fall of Singapore. As a boy, I remember veterans visiting the chapel to see the names of their fallen comrades. I remember seeing an old man visiting the name of a father he barely remembered—he only had hazy childhood memories of him. And I would like to pay tribute to Dr Gethin Matthews of Swansea University who records these war memorials, which are often under threat these days with chapel and church closures. And he does more than just record them, he puts faces to the names, stories to the names, which are so important.

The legacy of the second world war lives on. A month ago, I met Bill Lazenby. Bill Lazenby is a proper Englishman from south London. But Bill Lazenby is a fluent Welsh speaker because for four years he lived as an evacuee in Garnant in the Amman valley and he's very proud of his Welsh connections but is also a real Englishman.

At 11 o'clock on Remembrance Sunday, the city of Cardiff was busy, was loud, was full of shoppers, was full of rugby supporters. As the years go by and the veterans of the great wars pass, I'm worried that we're forgetting the importance of remembering. We must remember. Do you remember the end of Dad's Army, when the credits go and you hear the siren at the end? My father always felt sick when he heard the siren because it reminded him of his childhood during the Blitz in Cardiff, and it's so sad to hear today from Alun Davies about the sirens being called in Ukraine. Yes, it's so easy to forget the contributions of others. I have met veterans who live on the streets. The Tabernacl chapel in the Hayes in Cardiff has two war memorials honouring the dead, yet it feeds homeless veterans in the hall next-door. The Welsh Government has signed up, as we've heard, to the armed forces covenant, which states that no veteran should suffer detriment due to their military service. But by the very nature of the armed forces life and moving house so regularly, many of these veterans are transient and no longer have firm roots in any certain community. A blocker to armed forces veterans accessing social housing is the local connection rule. In 2016, the Welsh Government's guidance for local authorities on the allocation of housing and homelessness shows clear support for veterans and their housing needs. The veterans’ commissioner, in his report of this year, acknowledged that the Welsh Government's housing policy is subject to review. Well, one thing we could do is to follow England's example and get rid of the local connection rule for veterans. So, therefore, will the Welsh Government, will the Cabinet Secretary, speak to his colleagues and make a firm commitment, and give us a timescale, that the local connection will be scrapped for veterans in Wales? Diolch yn fawr.

In Armistice week, we remember and pay tribute to all members of the British armed forces who have given their lives through the first and second world wars to all the wars that have been subsequent. Men and women of Wales did make the ultimate sacrifice. And many of those who served and returned home to Wales live with the physical and emotional scars of war and conflict for the remainder of their lives. So, I'm honoured that we are joined today by veteran representatives from Age Cymru Dyfed. Owen Dobson from Ammanford is an army veteran of Bosnia and Kosovo, while Jim Glass of Llandovery is a veteran of 37 years serving both in the army and the RAF, and they both work on the Building Stronger Futures for Older Veterans project. I also want to thank RAF veteran Neil Davies of Aberystwyth, and Hugh Morgan OBE, veterans co-ordinator at Age Cymru Dyfed, and the West Wales Veterans' Archive, who were hoping to join us but were unable to do so today.

Very recently, I attended a veterans breakfast morning that Owen organised with the Military Veterans Club Cymru in Cwmaman community centre. It was extremely well attended, including the Veterans’ Commissioner for Wales, Colonel James Phillips, and we were serenaded by the school choir from Ysgol y Bedol. I spoke to many veterans, including 98-year-old Idwal Davies from Llanelli, who in 1945 was with the 1st Battalion of the Queen's Own Hussars in northern Italy. My own father, Bill Roberts, as you know, went from being a farm worker in Llanbrynmair to serving in the Royal Welch Fusiliers, where he became a prisoner of war.

The Age Cymru Dyfed veterans team don't just provide practical support to hundreds of veterans; they also collect first-hand stories of those who have served their nation in the armed forces. They developed the West Wales Veterans' Archive, which is held in the National Library of Wales in Aberystwyth, and that archive contains almost 1,000 entries so far, including an interview with Dennis Tidswell from Pembroke Dock who took part in the battle of Britain and then fought overseas. RAF veteran John Martin of Tan-y-groes was shot down on a raid over Berlin in January 1944, and he became a prisoner of war. And the last surviving Royal Navy beach commando in the world, Archie Thomas of Aberafan, recently joined a veterans shooting competition at a shooting range in Carmarthen. There, Archie joined D-day veterans like Tony Bird of Freshwater East, who served in the Royal Navy, Neville Bowen of Ammanford, who was a battle of the Atlantic Royal Navy gunner, and Royal Welch Fusilier veteran, Duncan Hilling of Saundersfoot. Duncan was in the British party that entered Hiroshima shortly after the atomic bomb had been dropped.

The veterans' archive also includes interviews with Welsh land army women and Kindertransport children put on trains by their parents to escape Nazi occupation, who found safe haven in Welsh homes. And the archive includes national service conscripts who served in Malaya, Korea, Borneo and nuclear tests on Christmas Island between 1947 to 1963, and those who joined as regulars, serving in Aden, Northern Ireland, the Falklands and many others. The collection includes interviews given in the 1970s by Carmarthenshire veterans of the first world war.

We must never forget the human cost of conflict. As the first world war poem states:

'For your tomorrow, we gave our today'.

The Cabinet Secretary to reply to the debate—Ken Skates. 

Diolch, Llywydd. In closing and before I respond to the contributions and the amendment, I would also like to thank those veterans who have attended today for their service—to Jim and to Owen, who I was kindly introduced to by Joyce Watson earlier today. 

Now, like others in this Chamber, I come from a family in which people have served, and it's been a pleasure and a very great honour to have served as Minister for armed forces and veterans since March. In firstly responding to the amendment, the call for peaceful resolutions to conflict and an end to war is one that I think we can all support, likewise remembering all who have lost their lives, including civilian casualties.

There have been so many fantastic and moving contributions today, it's difficult to respond to all in detail. Peredur Owen Griffiths opened the debate by speaking about the impact of loneliness, isolation and insecurity that many veterans face, and it is something that Ministers across the Welsh Government are determined to tackle. Hannah Blythyn and also Rhys ab Owen articulated the value of monuments and religious places in ensuring the memories of people we lost are remembered in the future. 

Darren Millar talked to the need for Wales to be an armed forces-friendly nation. I couldn't agree more, and I do think that huge strides have been made in this regard, and I think it showed on Sunday—certainly, it did in Wrexham. I agree entirely with Lesley Griffiths in her assessment that more people attended Remembrance Sunday in Wrexham than we can remember. What was quite striking—and I was discussing this with Sam Rowlands, who also laid a wreath—was that there were more organisations than ever before laying wreaths, and more young people in attendance than any of us could remember. 

It's interesting that, with 's-Hertogenbosch, actually, at Hightown Barracks there is a recently commissioned painting of Welsh soldiers in active duty, and what it depicts is a number of brave soldiers who had to rise up the ranks far quicker than would normally occur, and they did it to lead our mission there. Incredible bravery depicted in this painting, and I'd very much encourage Members to go and view it for themselves.

Janet Finch-Saunders outlined the heroic efforts by armed forces, and the commemorations not just to humans, but also, yes, to war horses and to dogs. And Alun Davies outlined the lasting impact of conflict on communities, conflicts that are taking place today as well as in the past. Joyce Watson, well, few are so passionate about veterans matters as your good self, and what you had to say about the archive I think resonated with many people—its value cannot be overestimated. And Jane Dodds outlined the horror of war and the need to prevent conflict with all of our energy. Lesley Griffiths talked about how precious freedom is and just how important it is that young people remember the losses from conflict.

Llywydd, I doubt there was a single dry eye in any household on Saturday evening where the Royal British Legion's Festival of Remembrance was being watched, and how incredible it was to see Catherine, Princess of Wales, back on duty for that occasion. At that event, so many veterans and their loved ones shared their stories and experiences, which we should never forget, because, Llywydd, we remember their losses so that we can strive to avoid circumstances in which they have to give their tomorrows for our today. Diolch.

The proposal is to agree the amendment. Does any Member object? No. The amendment is therefore agreed.

The proposal is to agree the motion as amended.

Does any Member object? No. The motion as amended is agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.

Item 9 is next, which is a debate on the Welsh Language Commissioner's annual report for 2023-24. I call on the Cabinet Secretary for the Welsh language to move the motion—Mark Drakeford.

Thank you very much, Llywydd. It's a pleasure to open this debate today and to ask you to note the annual report of the Welsh Language Commissioner for the financial year 2023-24. This is the second annual report for Efa Gruffudd Jones as commissioner, and I had the pleasure of discussing the report with her recently.

The report takes us on a journey through the work of the commissioner during the reporting period. It includes highlights of what's been done in areas such as ensuring fairness and rights for Welsh speakers, influencing legislation and policy, holding and increasing compliance with statutory duties, increasing the use of the Welsh language in the private sector and the charitable sector, and the work that she does in advising on placenames and working with the Government in that area. The report gives a useful snapshot of the work of the commissioner on placenames—for example, the work she does with the Ordnance Survey to review maps.

Increasing the use of the Welsh language is a priority for the Welsh Government and, therefore, ensuring that there are opportunities for people to use the Welsh language in their daily lives is important to us. The annual report records the success of the Defnyddia dy Gymraeg campaign established by the commissioner, and it is encouraging in reporting that 23 per cent of respondents to a survey believe that opportunities to use the Welsh language had increased over the previous year.

It's good to see some real-life examples in the report where progress has been made in providing Welsh language services, thanks to the work of the commissioner. For example, there is now more Welsh language material on health sector websites, and more consideration is given to the Welsh language in consulting on policies within local authorities. Also, health boards have developed five-year plans to offer more clinical services through the medium of Welsh.

Llywydd, the commissioner has reviewed her ways of working in order to ensure that the regulatory work undertaken has the biggest possible impact. I welcome the fact that she has introduced a more proactive approach of joint regulation during 2024. This approach is groundbreaking and is continuing to be developed. It focuses on outcomes rather than process alone. It's good to see the commissioner in the vanguard in terms of thinking anew in implementing her core responsibilities. This new approach means working more closely with organisations captured by standards in order to identify opportunities to provide more Welsh-language services and to help organisations who are having difficulties. I'm sure that this change will ensure that the commissioner continues to  regulate effectively and to build good relationships with organisations in order to increase the use of the Welsh language. 

There is a clear focus on increasing the use of the Welsh language in workplace in order to allow staff to work through the medium of Welsh. Developing Welsh language skills in the workplace is particularly important. It's good, therefore, to see that the commissioner is working on a project to identify good practice in using the Welsh language in the workplace. It was also encouraging to read the recent research published by the commissioner on the learner voice in the post-16 sector, where 1,000 respondents took part. Whilst learners continue to report barriers to the use of the Welsh language, particularly as a medium for study, respondents were also of the view that the Welsh language is crucially important, and considered it to be an economic advantage in developing their careers.

Dirprwy Lywydd, as a Government, we have a responsibility to lead by example in increasing the amount of Welsh used by our own workforce. The aim of our internal Welsh language strategy, 'Welsh. It belongs to us all' is to have an entirely bilingual workforce by 2050. By reviewing the provision for teaching staff Welsh, we have seen an increase in the number of staff following a formal programme of learning. In 2020, 73 members of staff were learning through a formal programme. By 2024, there were 627 staff members learning Welsh. We have also introduced a mandatory programme of learning for two groups of apprentices who have spent a fortnight studying Welsh language courses as they start their careers within the Welsh Government.

In delivering her responsibilities in relation to research, the annual report does set this work in a crucial context. There were very few cases reported where people were prevented from using the Welsh language, but there were more experiences noted where people stood back from using the Welsh language having been corrected in their usage by others. Welsh speakers of all ability levels reported this experience, but it was more common among Welsh language learners, and the commissioner is doing more work on this issue at the moment.

The commissioner has a role in terms of influencing policy and ensuring that the Welsh language is considered within areas like education and skills, qualifications, healthcare, agriculture, broadcasting, housing, economic development and Welsh language communities. I am grateful to the commissioner for responding to consultations on new policy and Bills. It is an effective way of reminding us within Government of what we can do in order to bring the Welsh language into all areas of our work. Mainstreaming 'Cymraeg 2050' from the outset in developing policy is so important. The work that she has done, jointly with the Children’s Commissioner for Wales, in terms of additional learning needs, has led to steps to support ALN provision through the medium of Welsh. The input of the commissioner, as we develop legislation such as the Welsh Language and Education (Wales) Bill, and the response to the Commission for Welsh-speaking Communities, is crucially important. I am sure that the commissioner will continue to contribute constructively as this work proceeds during this next period.

I’m sure that Members here will be interested in the international work of the commissioner. We, quite appropriately, focus on the steps that are needed to support the Welsh language in order to secure its future, but we sometimes forget that it is considered a success at an international level. The Welsh language is the only Celtic language that the United Nations Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organisation doesn’t consider to be at risk. The annual report notes the work of the commissioner with the International Association of Language Commissioners, and, although the report doesn’t mention this, it was a proud moment this year when the eighth conference of the association was held here in Wales.

Dirprwy Lywydd, in looking to the future, I look forward to bringing more organisations under the auspices of Welsh language standards. We have just consulted on adding further bodies to regulations already in existence. I hope to be able to deliver subordinate legislation to do this early in 2025. The commissioner has also done important work with businesses and charities. One hundred and nine organisations have participated in the Cynnig Cymraeg project. A broad range of organisations received certification during the year, including Aldi, Samaritans Cymru, Tenovus and Versus Arthritis. The Cynnig Cymraeg Week was an opportunity to promote Welsh language services within those sectors.

On the other side of things, Dirprwy Lywydd, I was disappointed to see some private sector companies deciding to cease the provision of Welsh language services. But I am grateful to the commissioner for being so willing to remind bodies just how important providing Welsh- language services is. It’s good to see that there is specific support available to these sectors, through guidance and training sessions, in order to encourage them to provide and develop Welsh language services.

In looking to the future, the financial situation continues to be challenging. The commissioner, like a number of other public bodies, has had to share this burden, and every commissioner saw a cut of 5 per cent for this financial year. I have met with the commissioner and do know that she has looked at her priorities in order to target resources to have the most positive impact. I will again meet the commissioner during the year to discuss her work, and I would like to thank her for being so positive in considering her response to this financial challenge.

Dirprwy Lywydd, the role of the commissioner is crucially important to give an independent voice on the Welsh language, to challenge us as a Government and to challenge other organisations, and to provide support where appropriate in developing the Welsh language. I look forward to continuing to collaborate with her in order to increase the use of the Welsh language and to deliver the objectives of 'Cymraeg 2050'. Thank you.

I thank the Welsh Government for bringing this debate forward to the Senedd this afternoon. I'm grateful to the commissioner for the report. It was a very interesting report. I also welcome the fact that—. Whenever we talk about the Welsh language, the central target is the million Welsh speakers, and I'm grateful that that is something that all parties in the Chamber believe in and believe is important and want the Welsh Government to succeed on. And I think that that's something that, hopefully, we don't take for granted and want to ensure that that does develop in the future. 

It was interesting to hear the Cabinet Secretary talking about international examples in terms of what you said, because, last year, we went with the culture committee—chaired by Delyth Jewell—to Ireland. I always think, 'Well, what do people in other countries think about Wales and know about Wales?' And I think everyone told us that it was the language, and they told us, 

'Well, I wish we had what you have in terms of our Gaelic-speaking communities, and we wish that we had that in Ireland. There's an awful lot that we can learn from you.' And I think that's something that we can be proud of. 

We should show how proud we are in terms of seeing that in Wales and that other countries look to Wales as an exemplar for the world. And that's to be welcomed. 

Turning to the report, I think the report—. The central part of the report, the most important part, is education, I think, to ensure that we do reach that target. And the commissioner has a very, very important role in terms of meeting that target of a million Welsh speakers by 2050. But what's clear, if you look at the stats—. We know that the last census said that fewer people in Wales speak Welsh, compared to the previous census. And if you look outwith the report, at other stats, what you see is that fewer teachers can teach through the medium of Welsh—so, 27.2 per cent in 2020, and 26.5 per cent in 2024. Also, 6.2 per cent of teachers, according to the school workforce census last year, said that they can teach through the medium of Welsh but are not doing so in the role that they have now. So, there is a lot more work to be done to ensure that, if we're going to meet the target of a million Welsh speakers, we do have the teachers to do that and that they are central in the process of doing that, and that they teach through the medium of Welsh in classrooms across Wales. 

So, I hope to see a strategy now, given that we see the Welsh language and education Bill emerging, that all schools—and we, as Welsh Conservatives do support the aims of the Bill—are on a continuum to ensure that more Welsh is taught in schools. That's a good thing. We do welcome that, even though there are some points that the Cabinet Secretary knows about in terms of how exactly this would work. But the aims are something that we do support. 

Also, I wanted to talk about something else regarding the policies of the Welsh Government that the report has mentioned, particularly the SFS, and I'll finish on this, Dirprwy Lywydd. The report says,

'The Government’s impact assessment estimated that there would be a significant deterioration in the size of the rural economy and a negative impact on communities with a high density of Welsh speakers.'

So, it will be worth hearing from the Cabinet Secretary, I think, when policies that are not ostensibly to do with the Welsh language—. How are policies like this one, like the SFS, developed to ensure that they don't have the negative impact that this report from the commissioner has identified?

But I thank the commissioner, and I thank the team working with the commissioner, and I hope to see this good work that we see in the report continue in the future. Thank you.

I'd like to thank the Cabinet Secretary for bringing this debate forward. I'd also like to thank the commissioner and her team for the important work that they do, as summarised in this voluminous but very readable report, which is quite an achievement. The work is essential in terms of promoting the use of the Welsh language as we work towards the goal of securing a million Welsh speakers by 2050 and doubling the use of the language, and also in terms of protecting and promoting the rights of Welsh speakers.

There are a number of positive aspects in this report, and there are a number of positive things that have been happening in terms of the Welsh language since this Senedd was established. But of course, this report once again does show that challenges remain. You referred, Cabinet Secretary, to those who have experienced someone interfering with their right to use the Welsh language over the past 12 months—18 per cent noted that, but with that increasing to 29 per cent of those questioned between the ages of 16 and 34.

I'd like to understand better what discussions you have had with the commissioner in terms of how we get that message across. We often say in this Chamber that the Welsh language belongs to everyone, and I certainly agree with the points that you made in terms of learners and the kinds of attitudes, and correcting people's language—I hate that. Of course, there is an important role to have correct Welsh at times—of course there is—and we want to ensure that there is a high standard of Welsh, but for anyone trying to speak Welsh, there's nothing worse than being corrected—I know that. But we have to ensure that people understand that correcting people can be very damaging at those times when people are trying to use the Welsh that they have.

One thing I wanted to highlight was regarding the 100 complaints about an alleged failure to comply with Welsh language standards and that 95 of those were valid. Looking at the register of enforcement actions, there are 126 references to Welsh Government Ministers. Evidently, that's over a large number of areas: it can be Transport for Wales—many different areas. But at the end of the day, Welsh Ministers are responsible for monitoring improvement and compliance in terms of those enforcement actions. So, could I ask how you go about doing that as Ministers? And further, of course, there are also several references to local authorities failing to comply.

Recently, you invited us as Members of the Senedd to be ambassadors for the Welsh language in our communities. Do you intend to ask all local authorities to do the same thing? Because it's clear from this report, if you look at the enforcement actions specifically, that some councils fail to comply annually—that there is a pattern in terms of which councils are perhaps not meeting those standards. What work is being done, therefore, to ensure that all local authorities share the ambition of this Senedd in terms of the Welsh language? Evidently, the work of the commissioner and her team is very thorough when complaints are submitted, so, if there are repeat offenders, as it were, when it comes to local authorities, I think that it's important that we do see the progress that's being made, rather than seeing the same problems arising time after time.

Evidently, the commissioner's comments in this report about the Welsh Language and Education (Wales) Bill say that she sees—. Well, if I quote here:

'It is not an overstatement to argue that this is a historic development for the Welsh language in education'.

So, could I ask how are you collaborating with the commissioner and her team on the development of the Bill?

You drew attention also to two very important reports: one on additional learning needs, published jointly with the children’s commissioner, and, secondly, a report on post-compulsory education and the Welsh language. You mentioned that there were actions that were taken in the wake of these reports, so could you outline those actions, please?

I’m very pleased regarding the comments you made about HSBC. I think it’s very important in terms of online services as well, that we continue to ensure that companies understand the value of the Welsh language.

One of the concerns that remain is in terms of the cuts that have been made to the commissioner’s budget, and you referred to the fact that they’d responded positively to the challenges, but what assessment have you made in terms of the impact of the budget cuts on the commissioner’s work, and how might that impact be mitigated?

So, there are some questions there, but I hope that you do understand that they come from a very positive place in terms of how we see the commissioner’s work developing in order to support the united ambition of this Senedd in terms of the Welsh language.

I also echo my thanks to the Welsh Language Commissioner for her report and her important contribution in relation to the Welsh language. Cabinet Secretary, I would like to discuss a specific issue today, namely Welsh language services provided for children with learning needs. According to a recent study, the number of children with a diagnosis of autism and special needs in Wales has increased threefold since 2001. This means that around 20 per cent of pupils in Wales now have additional learning needs.

Now, I remember—and I’ve mentioned this before in the Senedd—a great aunt of mine in Llanelli telling me that she’d been advised by the local authority back in the 1960s not to send her son to Ysgol Gymraeg Dewi Sant because he had additional learning needs—he wouldn't be able to cope with two languages. Overnight, the language of the household changed, the language of his brother and sister changed, and that family is lost to the Welsh language currently. Thank goodness, we have made a great deal of progress since the 1960s, but the commissioner’s report demonstrates powerfully that there is still a clear gap between English-medium provision and Welsh-medium provision in terms of additional learning needs, and this issue has been raised by all 22 local authorities in Wales.

This means that parents and learners are still often forced to seek English-medium support and education, and as you know, this runs counter to article 30 of the United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child, which states that a child has the right to use their language of choice, and is also contrary to the legislation in this place, which says that we should treat Welsh and English equally. This is not happening at the moment when it comes to additional learning needs provision.

Through the Welsh in education strategic plans, the WESPs, local authorities are expected to state whether the needs of Welsh-speaking learners are being met at present. But many of the WESPs that have been introduced have failed to carry out comprehensive reviews of their practices as part of creating those WESPs, and creating WESPs for the future. This means that local councils, local authorities aren’t learning from their mistakes, and they then don’t build a clearer picture of what Welsh-medium learners need.

I was pleased to see the collaboration between the Children’s Commissioner for Wales and the Welsh Language Commissioner, and that they concluded that a national taskforce was required to co-ordinate the campaign to improve the provision in relation to additional learning needs. I know that that hasn’t been agreed with Government, but that you have appointed a Welsh-medium additional learning needs lead. And from what I understand, and from what I’ve heard, that lead is doing excellent work, but the current provision is not equal, and we cannot say that the Welsh language is a language for everyone when this is still happening—we cannot ensure that there's no chance for things to happen as happened to my cousin, so that they can't access the education and support that they need in their first language. Thank you.

In thanking the commissioner for the report, I want to raise two issues, please. Objective 2 for the commissioner is ensuring that the Welsh language is considered in policy and legislation, and you've mentioned that. The Commission for Welsh-speaking Communities, under its chair, Simon Brooks, is encouraging the Government to enable decisions about local housing needs on a micro level, which respond to local needs, rather than espousing regional or national policies only. Could I just draw your attention to the possible discord that could arise between the recommendations of the Commission for Welsh-speaking Communities in the area of housing and the homelessness legislation that is under way, which would be around the local connection rule? I'm not going to go into detail about this now, but could I encourage you, Cabinet Secretary, to look at this to avoid conflict between the two policies for the future?

In turning to the second issue, namely Welsh language standards, in a letter that I received from Eluned Morgan at the end of the summer, when she was Cabinet Secretary for the Welsh language, she stated that the priority for Government in terms of extending Welsh language standards is to extend them to the housing association and public transport sectors. I wonder whether you could give us an update on that work. The letter also states that the Government has started to consider which sectors should be prioritised after the period of this Senedd. Is this work ongoing and can you give us an idea of what this work has identified as priority sectors for the next Senedd? You will be very much aware that there was a commitment between our two parties to draw up a full list to complete the work of introducing Welsh language standards. When will that list be published, please?

I would say that, usually, I would be contributing to a debate such as this as Chair of the culture and Welsh language committee, but because of the timing of the report this year, we haven't yet had an opportunity to consider it. It will be extremely interesting and useful for us in the future, but I wanted to make it clear that I am speaking as an individual Member in this debate.

I'd like to thank the commissioner and her team for the extremely important work that they've done, and also thank the Cabinet Secretary for bringing this debate before the Senedd. There was a very interesting discussion yesterday in the cross-party group on intergenerational solidarity with the Cabinet Secretary on the Welsh language, where we discussed a number of different issues, including those family stories that so many of us have, where one generation decided not to pass the language on to the next and the impact that that has had over a period of many years. It is something that affected my own family, certainly, and I think that discussions about the Welsh language and the need for children to have access to the Welsh language, and to have those opportunities, are an incredibly personal and emotional thing for so many of us, because of that. Sometimes, we appreciate things more when we realise how fragile they can be.

I think there is sometimes a tension between the fact that—yes, as Tom mentioned—Wales is envied by other Celtic nations, because of the status that the language has and how much better off we are now than we were previously, but there is a tension between that and the fact that there are still challenges to the status of the language, with businesses like HSBC cutting Welsh language services, and, yes, there are the census figures too. So, the Welsh language is a valuable gem, perhaps a diamond, something that's been compressed by and under huge pressure, but we don't want to put the Welsh language in a glass case, as something to be admired. We want to ensure that it is seen, that we appreciate it every day, that we use it every day. So, there is that tension, I think, and it's something that we do need to recognise.

I agree with those who mentioned access to Welsh-medium education. That's one of the greatest challenges that we face, and I think the commissioner has highlighted that too. I fear that the changes that so many councils across Wales are thinking of making, in terms of access to Welsh-medium education in terms of school transportation, are going to bring negative impacts in terms of access to the Welsh language—the number of non-Welsh-speaking families, perhaps, those who haven't been handed down this treasure from the previous generation, whether they will take that leap in order to transfer that gem to their children. I've spoken to a number of people who are concerned about this in Monmouthshire and in Caerphilly; it will happen across Wales, and I do think that we need to address that challenge.

This is the final point that I would want to make, Dirprwy Lywydd. Heledd mentioned how important it is, if the Welsh language is to be a language for everyone in Wales, that we do praise everyone's efforts in using the language. I know that the commissioner has done some work on confidence in relation to the Welsh language, and the fact that we need a change of culture, perhaps, in relation to the language if we want to see that progress, and adequate progress in the number of people who use the language on a daily basis. Because we don't want people just to be able to speak the language, we want to see the language as a living language, something that is spoken every day, in all its complexities, its variance and, yes, its wonderful errors. People won't like me saying that, perhaps, but when people do make mistakes, it shows that they are speaking Welsh and that the Welsh language is a living language. People are learning the language. We are all continuously learning the Welsh language, every day as we speak it. We are all learners. The confidence challenge is perhaps the most complex and most stubborn of those challenges, but it's also the most important challenge to overcome. We have the language, and we must use it.

I call on the Cabinet Secretary to reply to the debate.

I thank everyone who has contributed to this debate, and I thank you all for the constructive spirit that has been part of the contributions in their entirety.

I thank Tom Giffard for what he said about the international work that he has seen going on. The President of Brittany was here in the Senedd this afternoon; he was looking at the work that we're doing here. I had an opportunity to speak to him earlier and he asked me how many Senedd Members could speak Welsh and who contributes in Welsh, and he said that only three people in the Parliament in Brittany contribute in Breton. So, there are tensions, as Delyth said—we're concerned about the Welsh language, we know that there is a lot more work for us to do to boost the language and help it to prosper in the future, but we are lucky, aren't we? We can have a debate like this, where everyone has contributed in Welsh and that comes naturally to us. Others in the Celtic world are not in that position.

As Tom Giffard said, education is vital to us in terms of our future planning. That's why we brought forward the Welsh language and education Bill before the Senedd, to strengthen the language in all aspects of the education system that we have. Dirpwy Lywydd, I'm responsible for the Welsh language and I lead on these issues in terms of the Welsh language and the commissioner, but the work of the commissioner is important to all Cabinet Members, and the Minister for education and the Minister for health have a direct relationship with the commissioner in terms of the work that she does in the areas that they are responsible for. 

As Heledd Fychan said, Dirprwy Lywydd, challenges do remain relating to the Welsh language, and one of the most important things for us is to remember that the commissioner is independent. That's why she can report on the work that we do as a Government. And, as Heledd said, there are a number of examples in the report where she has provided advice to us, as a Government, about how we can improve the standards of the things that we do. I'm happy discuss the point that Heledd raised about when repeat offenders emerge from the work that the commissioner does, to see whether there is more that we can do to help local authorities when they're in that position, but also to be clear with them about the duties that they have. 

Rhys ab Owen, Dirprwy Lywydd, drew attention to children with additional learning needs, and, of course, we want all children, from all backgrounds and from all communities, to receive Welsh-medium education when parents want that to happen. And that's why the report jointly with the children's commissioner was important to us, and we know that that is taken very seriously by the Minister responsible. 

In terms of Siân Gwenllian's point, I'm happy to look at the point that Siân raised in terms of where policies may conflict and what we can do about that. I'm happy to write to Siân Gwenllian just to set out everything that we're doing in the area of standards. Thank you to everyone who has contributed to this debate, Dirprwy Lywydd. And, of course, I want to ask you all to note the important work that the commissioner is doing and note the annual report formally. 

The proposal is to agree the motion. Does any Member object? No. The motion is therefore agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.

There are no votes this evening, so that brings today's proceedings to a close.