National Assembly for Wales

Good afternoon and welcome, all, to this Plenary meeting. The first item this afternoon is questions to the Cabinet Secretary for Housing and Local Government. The first question is from Andrew R.T. Davies.

Diolch yn fawr. We are investing record amounts in a wide range of house building support programmes. I have recently announced an additional £10 million to help accelerate the development of 16 new affordable housing schemes, as well as £57 million to extend the Help to Buy—Wales scheme for a further 18 months.

Thank you, Minister. The way the First Minister has constructed her Cabinet means, obviously, that planning is in another portfolio to yours, but you are the Minister responsible for housing supply, as I understand it. Many applications get bogged down in the planning system. The First Minister has spoken about this as one of her priorities to reform the planning system here in Wales. How is your department working with the Cabinet Secretary for the economy to make that actually happen on the ground, so that many small and medium-sized builders can afford that initial cost of putting those applications in that will bring proposals forward to be built out and actually meet the housing need that we so desperately require here in Wales, to meet those numbers?

Diolch yn fawr. It's an important question about how we work across Government on this important issue as well. The Cabinet Secretary for Economy, Energy and Planning and I recently met the house builders engagement group, on 28 January, to discuss a range of issues associated with accelerating house building. So, we are trying to make sure we align at a ministerial level, and meet people together, to have those discussions, as well as, obviously, officials working across that area as well. You'll know that there's been a planning consultation, which has been out, which is promoting a resilient and high-performing planning service. That sets out our proposals for improving the capacity and resilience of planning services. That's something that's led by the Cabinet Secretary for Economy, Energy and Planning. And you're quite right—this is one of the First Minister's priorities, and I can assure the Senedd and you that we will continue to work together to make sure that we have a system that is ensuring that we've got the houses in the right places and that we're doing all we can to increase house building across Wales.

Diolch, Sioned. The Welsh Government is continuing to prioritise local government and front-line public services in its budget decisions. The provisional local government settlement for 2025-26 provides over £6.1 billion in core revenue funding. This is an average increase of 4.3 per cent or £253 million on a like-for-like basis.

Thank you. Although this year's settlement is better than originally expected, it is still less than half the fiscal deficit of £560 million noted by the Welsh Local Government Association. For over a decade, councils in my area have been placed under huge financial pressure due to austerity policies, and recent decisions such as increasing employer national insurance contributions and cuts to winter fuel payments for the majority of pensioners have led to new challenges. In Neath Port Talbot, the Labour Westminster Government’s decision to increase national insurance contributions will lead to pressures of almost £5.7 million. It will also have a major impact on the costs of service providers that are commissioned. The council has only received half of the funding that it needs in terms of an increase in the settlement. So, have you, Cabinet Secretary, undertaken an assessment of how that financial deficit and the increase in national insurance contributions will impact on council services, such as those of Neath Port Talbot, as well as those commissioned services, so that they can meet demand and serve the people that I represent?

Diolch, Sioned. Thank you for that. Don't forget that we have had an extra £1.5 billion for our priorities and public services that we all rely on, putting Wales back on the path to growth. So, every department will benefit from an increase in funding in this Senedd. I think we have to remember what we've been through over the last 14 years, and, so, one budget isn't going to change that. But I think that having two Governments that share the same values, working together will be really important.

In terms of the point you've raised around national insurance, you'll know that national insurance is not devolved. Our initial estimate of the additional national insurance cost to devolved public sector employers in Wales is £253 million, and, of this, £33 million relates to teachers and £77 million to other local government staff. We've not yet had confirmation of how much additional funding Wales will receive to support the additional costs to devolved public sector employers, but we are continuing to work with HM Treasury to clarify the details and the level of support that will be provided.

Cabinet Secretary, local authorities across my region are cutting budgets, reducing services and, at the same time, putting up council tax bills. Bridgend County Borough Council, for example, are cutting £3.5 million from the schools budget and £2.2 million from the social services and well-being budget, but are congratulating themselves for limiting council tax increases to just 4.5 per cent. Low-paid workers across South Wales West are expected to pay more for less. Cabinet Secretary, how do you ensure that those funds are spent wisely and present value for money, which you've just discussed with Sioned in your answer?

Diolch, Altaf, and, as you say, local authorities will be looking at their budgets at the moment and realising that they’re making some really tough decisions, and I'd just like to commend them for the work that they are doing and that they continue to do. It's been really interesting, when I'm meeting with local authority leaders and chief executives and top teams, how much transformation has happened in local authorities and local government over a number of years. As I said, this is a budget that is brighter than we could have expected. I think it's not going to, unfortunately, solve everything in this one budget, but, as I say, I think there is a real turning of a corner with the budget.

As I say, councils will be considering a range of council tax and spending options in consultation, and it's right that they do that. Authorities must carefully balance the impact of council tax increases on household finances with the alternative loss of support and services. So, we know that these are really difficult decisions that local authorities are having to make, but, as I say, there is some real hope of the turning of a corner in terms of what we could have had if we hadn't had a Labour Government at Westminster.

Questions now from the party spokespeople. The Welsh Conservatives' spokesperson, Laura Anne Jones.

Diolch, Llywydd. Cabinet Secretary, after visiting the Salvation Army in our city of Newport recently, it is clearer to me that veterans make up a high proportion of those people who are homeless. I know that we all in this Chamber want to make sure that, after risking their lives for our safety, our veterans can have timely access to housing. One veteran from Bridgend a few years ago had to wait 10 years for social housing. Don't you agree with me that a support package needs to be in place for armed forces men and women before they leave the army and enter civilian life, and that the same should also apply to those people leaving prison and those being discharged from hospital, which could then be a key preventative measure in preventing homelessness in Wales? It is also concerning, as I was looking at this, that there's no routine collection of accurate statistics on veteran homelessness, and I'd like your thoughts on that too. Thank you.

Diolch, Laura. Thank you for that, and it's really good that you've been able to visit the Salvation Army and the incredible work that they’re doing in the area. I think it's really important to go and see for yourself as well and to commend the work that they’re doing, making a real difference to people day in, day out.

I think, as you said, you've touched on veteran support and others being at risk of homelessness, and you'll know that we're bringing forward our legislation later this year on homelessness, which I think will be a real change in how we talk about homelessness and how the system deals with homelessness within Wales. And I'm sure that, within that, as it has been throughout consultation and the White Paper, veterans have been involved in that, making up that consultation.

Thank you, Cabinet Secretary, I look forward to being involved with that too and ensuring that we do look at it in a more preventative way than a reactive way. 

Making homes fit for purpose needs to be now seen by this Government as a key preventative measure across Government, particularly in health, as poor housing quality costs our NHS £95 million per year. For example, in the Aneurin Bevan health board last year, Care and Repair saved 6,978 hospital bed days, which is equivalent to £2.2 million. One of the major problems at Care and Repair, which I know we’ve both visited in Monmouthshire and Torfaen, is a major skill shortage and not being able to secure reliable contractors. Secondly, the repair work they tackle is simple, but complex funding applications are pushing away reliable and skilled contractors. Do you agree with me, Cabinet Secretary, that we need a change from the over-reliance on benevolent funding for fantastic organisations such as Care and Repair to perhaps a more permanent funding structure, to ensure that these vital works are carried out at speed, and also a move to encourage contractors to work in this vital field to carry out these vital works? Diolch.

I absolutely agree with you in terms of the work that Care and Repair do, and other organisations, in terms of adaptations, because, as you rightly say, prevention is so important within this. Organisations like Care and Repair are invaluable, and speaking to people directly who’ve been impacted just shows you, and also discussions with the health boards, which I have as well, about how that keeps people out of hospital, which is so important not just for the health boards and our NHS, but also for that individual, because going into hospital is—. We want to prevent that as much as possible, until people have to go. So, I think keeping people in their own home is vital. It is something that I’ve discussed with the Minister for social care as well, and the Cabinet Secretary for health. I’m keen to have that discussion more widely about what more we can do in this space. Obviously, that was something that we put forward in the draft budget as well, putting some more money into organisations such as Care and Repair.

Diolch. That’s excellent to hear. It is something that needs to be tackled cross-portfolio, so I look forward to hearing the outcomes of your conversations. Many councils are now deep in their budget consultations ahead of council tax rises across the board in April. I will now use Monmouthshire County Council as an example because it’s a local one that we both understand. They’ve recently said they refuse to rule out a further increase on an already proposed 7.8 per cent council tax rise. This is already a massive inflation-busting council tax rise, and still it’s not balancing the books. Monmouthshire council are already £23 million short to provide the same level of services as just what they did last year. The council cuts will affect many people, especially children and the vulnerable. The latest reports show that some schools will even have to share headteachers. Cabinet Secretary, Monmouthshire County Council and all councils across Wales are desperately hoping for additional funding from the Welsh Government to close the £4 million gap created by your colleagues in Westminster through the national insurance increases. Are they going to get it? And when will the 21 other Welsh councils have clarity on when they will receive enough money, enough millions of pounds, to meet the new enormous national insurance bill worth millions that Labour has handed them, or do you still not know the answer to that? Diolch.

Diolch yn fawr, Laura. As I mentioned earlier around the issues that local authorities are facing, all setting their budgets in consultation with the public, whilst there is a real turning of the corner, there are still difficulties. I realise how challenging it is for local authorities at the moment, but, as I said, we have to put into context where we would have been if we hadn’t had the general election when we did and local authorities and us here in the Welsh Government would have been faced with something, I believe, quite different.

In terms of the council tax, as I said, councils will be considering a range of council tax and spending options. It’s their budget, their consultation. Any increase in council tax is unwelcome for local communities, but nevertheless it is an important source of funding for local authorities to enable them to deliver local services. And it is for each authority to justify its decision on council tax to communities.

I think there are some other points around national insurance. As I said, we’re continuing to work with HM Treasury to clarify details of the level of support that will be provided. When we do know the funding levels, we will use the standard route of the distribution sub-group and finance sub-group to discuss the distribution of funding. I’m aware that different authorities have different proportions of directly employed staff, commissioned services or contracted-out services. So, there are those discussions to be had.

But, as I say, our overall settlement for 2025-26 is more than £1 billion higher than it would have been under the previous UK Government. And, as I say, 14 years of that constrained funding can’t be turned around in just one budget.

Plaid Cymru spokesperson, Siân Gwenllian. 

Thank you, Llywydd. One in every 215 households is living in temporary accommodation in Wales. Many of these families are in inappropriate accommodation for long periods of time, and that’s because there isn’t enough social housing available. That is the fundamental problem. Now, in addition to building new low-carbon homes, how willing are you to look at property that is available to be repurposed into social housing? And may I ask what your vision is for repurposing faith buildings—churches, chapels, and houses of worship of all sorts, those which are now left empty? And what’s your view on the recent report by the Bevan Foundation, which recommends that the Welsh Government does look at the potential in this area and works with relevant partners on it?

Diolch, Siân. And thank you for noting the Bevan Foundation and Housing Justice Cymru, and I’ll consider those findings. I know there was an event here in the Senedd as well, which I know some of my officials attended, as well as Members here. So, we continue to work with Housing Justice Cymru and Cwmpas, along with other partners across the sector, to realise the potential of land and buildings across Wales. We’re also working with local authorities via the Transforming Towns programme to redevelop empty properties, including empty commercial properties in towns across Wales, which can include the delivery of homes. And through our loan scheme, we’ve brought 400 properties back into use as homes.

But, yes, very interested in the report, and I also know that the taskforce that’s looking into this will be looking into this as well. So, they’re alerted to it, but very interested in this area.

Thank you very much. I’m pleased to hear that you do see potential in buildings that are vacant at the moment, not only houses of worship, but all sorts of empty buildings on our high streets, for example. But if the Government is to unlock that potential to create more social housing, then you’ll have to allow more flexibility in terms of the planning and design guidance. Of course, it is a worthy aim to create high-quality homes that are energy efficient, but reaching the energy performance certificate A standard is likely to add £15,000 to the cost of every home. And housing associations argue that allowing the EPC B standard would lead to the creation of 1,000 additional homes with the same budget. So, I would ask whether there is some scope for flexibility here in that area.

And then, in turning to existing properties, if these are to play a more central role in creating more social housing, then you do have to consider allowing more flexibility. Will you do that? I’m not hearing positive noises to that end at the moment. So, saying that you see potential on the one hand but then not unlocking that potential and moving the barriers is a contradiction, if truth be told.

Diolch, Siân. And just to say around, also, the places of worship, that Cadw has met with the Bevan Foundation as well regarding the potential for redundant faith-owned assets to provide social homes. And they’ve also provided some general advice with respect to the considerations necessary for repurposing historic listed buildings for residential use to meet those social housing needs. So, I know we’re going to touch on the space aspect in a second, but just there are some other issues around this. But I’m keen to see how we can unlock some of those problems working together, really.

In terms of the space standard, this is something that I—. When I'm speaking to local authorities and to registered social landlords, that does get raised and I do speak to them, and I have asked for, perhaps, examples, because there is flexibility within the scheme at the moment. So, I'm keen to hear about where that flexibility isn't meeting the need, when we should perhaps be looking at that a bit closer. So, as I say, I am hearing what people are saying, I am keen to explore and, as I said, there is flexibility within the system at the moment, but keen to hear about where that flexibility isn't working, and I'll obviously review that with officials.

Thank you for that update. Turning, finally, to the recommendations made by the Local Government and Housing Committee of the Senedd, which calls on the Welsh Government to play a far more strategic and clearer role in the supply of social housing, many of those who provided evidence to the committee have supported the establishment of an arm’s-length development corporation, with the ability to intervene in the land market and to plan in the long term, beyond the electoral cycle. And the committee has suggested a review of the role of the Unnos programme, which is part of the Welsh Government’s programme of work at the moment, in order to develop that into being a separate entity with appropriate powers. The belief is that the land division, or I think it’s called the place division now, that that division can’t respond swiftly enough to the housing crisis. But you've rejected that recommendation. I'd like to understand why, and I would ask whether you are willing to reconsider that decision, because I don’t think that sticking with the status quo is going to be the way for us to meet the huge demand that exists. Thank you.

Thank you, Siân. Like you say, there are aspects where it’s really important, because there's a huge challenge in this area, and I am keen to look at where we can do more. As you say, Ministers established the land division to add scale and pace to the delivery—more well-designed, sustainable and affordable homes and places on public sector land—and that land division is now part of a newly formed place division, which brings together land and regeneration objectives. Just to say, the place division currently has 26 sites, covering over 1,300 acres, with potential capable of delivering in excess of 4,000 new homes, and the portfolio is valued at £44 million. You’ll have seen, when we had the debate in the Senedd and my response to the Local Government and Housing Committee, whilst I think there were those three rejections within that report, that doesn’t mean to say that we’re not focused on the challenges that the Local Government and Housing Committee brought to us, but perhaps we see things in a little bit of a different way on that and how to move forward. But, as I say, I’m not disputing that the issue is there and how we can try to get past that, I think, but it might be that we have a bit of a difference of opinion on how we do that, rather than what the actual issue is.

Diolch. Accessibility is one of our core principles for electoral reform. We are requiring returning officers to support disabled voters and trialling voting solutions for blind and partially sighted people with the Royal National Institute of Blind People. Our elections information platform will include accessibility measures at polling stations and we are also financially enabling disabled candidates.

Thank you for that response.   

Last week, my constituent, who is a guide dog user, took the opportunity to take part in the Welsh Government funded trial that the Cabinet Secretary has just mentioned, which was run in conjunction with the RNIB, to make voting more accessible, and I've received extremely positive feedback from my constituent. She explained that she was able to try three different voting methods, each with a varying degree of success. But the method of voting that my constituent was most comfortable with was having the information read out to her through headphones, as she felt her way down the tactile ballot paper until reaching the correct candidate she wanted to vote for. And my constituent felt that she was able to give meaningful feedback and was able to suggest some changes. So, all in all, she found it a really positive experience, and she feels that this is a very positive move, funded by the Welsh Government, to make voting more accessible, and it will give people who are blind and partially sighted more confidence to go to the ballot box by themselves. So, does the Cabinet Secretary agree that this is exactly the reason why this trial was commissioned?

Diolch yn fawr, and I'd like to thank Julie Morgan and her constituent for that feedback. It was really good, and that was something I was really pleased to be at well. I think seeing the trials happening was really important, and the fact that people were really pleased that it was going on is exactly, I think, why it's so important to trial those various solutions in those settings. I know that that happened in Cardiff, I think the week before last, and I think Monday it happened in Wrexham as well. So, we're trialling these different ways across Wales. I'm also extremely thankful to all participants who took part in the two trials, as well as RNIB Cymru, Vision Support and local authorities who helped us to set up those trials, and I look forward to sharing the findings with returning officers to help them put the most appropriate support in place so that blind and partially sighted people can be confident in voting independently and in secret, which is absolutely important, isn't it? And it was something that I was able to discuss with Government Ministers at UK level, Scotland and Northern Ireland recently as well, who are all interested in what we're doing here in Wales.

Accessibility to Senedd elections, and in particular the new voting system next time, in May, still remains a concern, with barriers affecting disabled voters, new voters and those using the postal vote system. While most voters do often participate with much confidence, some will still face challenges when attempting to understand the new voting system and voting for political parties rather than individual candidates. Now, changes from the Elections Act 2022 allow any adult to assist disabled voters, but many do remain unaware of these provisions. I am aware of the hard work our Senedd Commission staff are now taking to reach out to disenfranchised electors, 16-year-old voters and any part of our electoral system where they feel they need to do so. So, with the Electoral Commission's budget now increasing from £29 million to £46 million, what measures will the Cabinet Secretary take to guarantee that this funding is used most effectively to promote awareness of the accessibility support that is available through the electoral officers, and, in particular, on the new voting system, so that we have greater accessibility for our electors next May? Diolch.

Diolch yn fawr, Janet, and you also raise an important point about making sure we raise that awareness with disabled voters or people who are partially sighted before they go into a polling station, because I think it's important that that is raised, because it's about the confidence of going to the polling station as well. So, we're committed to removing the barriers to taking part in elections for voters and candidates. As I said, it was really good to be able to work with the RNIB and the local authorities to trial those pilots, so it'll be really interesting to see what comes of that, and it was good to hear some of that feedback today.

Beyond this, we'll also be looking at how best to support accessible voting for a wider range of accessibility needs. So, I've committed £25,000 for accessible voting trials. Next month we'll debate the legislation for an elections information platform. This will also provide accessible information and will be key to improving voter awareness around elections. And the Elections and Elected Bodies (Wales) Act 2024 put the access to elected office fund on a statutory footing, so this provides grants to remove barriers for disabled candidates. And our democratic engagement grant supports a range of projects to improve accessibility of elections.

Diolch, Cefin. The Welsh Government does not collect information on fees paid by local authorities to the Crown Estate. These fees are a matter for each local authority to discuss with the Crown Estate.

Well, as the Government isn't gathering that data, my office, through freedom of information requests, tried to find out what the size and amount of the fees are, and revealed that over £105,000 is paid in fees to the Crown Estate every year, between the councils of Ceredigion, Pembrokeshire and Carmarthenshire, to enable public access to land owned by the estate. This includes, for example, £27,000 per year for access to the River Teifi and its coastline in Ceredigion.

Cabinet Secretary, we're at a point where our local authorities, in the face of rising costs and an increase in national insurance contributions, are considering cuts to public services in order to meet growing deficits in their budget expenditure. In the case of Ceredigion, the council faces a shortfall of around £5 million and is considering raising council tax by up to 14 per cent. Do you agree with me and my colleagues in Plaid Cymru that it is impossible to justify the fact that councils in south-west Wales alone send over £100,000 annually over the border to the UK Treasury and the royal family, and that the process of transferring responsibility for the Crown Estate should start as soon as possible?

Diolch, Cefin. Our position is that management of the Crown Estate should be devolved to Wales. Taking control of the management of the Crown Estate assets in Wales would allow Welsh Government to have greater autonomy over the speed and direction of the development of Welsh-sited Crown Estate property, and we would have access to the opportunity to better align the management of the Crown Estate in Wales with the needs of Welsh citizens. The management of Crown assets also generates significant revenue to the UK Exchequer, so devolution of the Crown Estate would better align those revenues with the income available for the Welsh Government to deliver on our priorities for Welsh citizens. And we also realise the importance of creating a stable environment to ensure that we capture the opportunities for offshore wind, for example, in Wales.

Diolch, Paul. Our priority is to reinvigorate town centres to make them better places in which to live and work. Since January 2020, we have awarded almost £18 million of funding through our Transforming Towns programme to support regeneration projects in town centres across Pembrokeshire.

Cabinet Secretary, you may be aware that Pembrokeshire County Council is currently developing a public transport hub as part of its wider regeneration work to revitalise and regenerate Haverfordwest town centre. However, that transport hub, which is effectively a bus stop and a car park, will be located some half a mile from the town's train station, which makes no sense if it is trying to encourage more people to come to the town centre. Cabinet Secretary, I'm sure you'll agree with me that any public transport regeneration projects need to be considered with local public transport services, because that is the only way we will regenerate our town centres and our community. So, can you tell us what guidance is being issued to local authorities such as Pembrokeshire County Council to ensure that there is always a holistic approach to regeneration projects?

Diolch, Paul. I think it's an important point. I know that the development of the Haverfordwest public transport interchange—close to the town centre, as you mention—is being supported by Welsh Government funding, and the project will support regeneration activity in the town centre. But your important point around how we make sure all departments are talking to each other, I think, is absolutely clear, and that's something that I've spoken to my Cabinet colleagues here about, and I'm keen that we have that joined-up approach here, as I would hope in local authorities as well.

There are some really good things happening in Pembrokeshire. Since January 2020, the council has been awarded around £6 million to support the strategic regeneration projects in Haverfordwest through the Transforming Towns programme, including the flagship Western Quayside development. There are lots in the pipeline as well. But it is important that there is that joined-up approach, and that we all—all Cabinet members here also—are very much aware of that, and that's at the top of their agenda as well. 

Diolch, Peter. I fully recognise the need for affordable housing across Wales, which is why we're investing a record annual budget of £411 million for social housing in the next financial year—an additional £81 million, compared to last year. This year, Monmouthshire County Council received over £10.7 million of social housing grant alone.

Thank you, Cabinet Secretary. It's very clear that we are in a massive housing crisis, and that includes, certainly, affordable housing. Now, I know that your target was some 20,000 in this term of low-carbon social homes, but you've only delivered about half of those to date. So, between the Government and local authorities, we're not doing a very good job of making provision for enough affordable housing, going forward. So, Cabinet Secretary, what is your projected number of additional affordable houses that this Government and the councils will deliver in the remainder of this term? And how does your Government plan to reverse the trend and ensure that developers deliver the percentage of affordable houses that they commit to at the planning stage? Too often, they pull out or change because of remediation costs and things like that. 

Thank you, Peter. This is something, obviously, I'm working with local authorities and registered social landlords on. As soon as I came into post, that was something that I wanted, to identify any blockages within the system, and that's something that we've been able to do with that announcement of the recent £10 million extra. Again, I'm pleased to note that, on 4 February, Monmouthshire County Council approved the development of 96 new affordable homes at Mabey bridge in the Brunel quarter of Chepstow. So, that scheme is receiving over £10 million of Welsh Government funding. So, in this Senedd term, we've delivered nearly 9,000 more homes for rent in the social sector. An additional £10 million this financial year will help to kick-start the development of 60 new affordable housing schemes, leading to 238 new homes being built before the end of the Senedd term. And that's directly from the conversations that I had as soon as I came into post. So, I'm just trying to make sure that there's that line between what we've been discussing and actually what we're doing. 

So, I'm really keen to do everything I can. We've still got the taskforce, which is looking at some examples of where there are blockages and what is behind all of that. Officials are looking generally across Wales at where are the problems, what can we do more of, what needs to change. We've also put £30 million into Leasing Scheme Wales, which improves access to long-term affordable housing in the private rented sector, and we've also extended the Help to Buy—Wales scheme by putting in an extra £57 million. So, we're trying to do things in all different ways to get more people on the housing ladder and access to, particularly, affordable homes, social homes in Wales. 

Thanks, Janet. The affordable housing statistical release publishes data by local authority area and shows that, in Conwy, a total of 113 new homes for social rent were delivered by registered social landlords between 2022 and 2024. A further five schemes were approved for Conwy in 2023-24, which will provide 178 new homes, with further schemes planned in the near future.

Thank you. Well, over the past two years, Aberconwy has seen a limited number of new rented social housing properties built and it is failing to meet the growing demand for affordable housing. In fact, according to StatsWales, the total housing stock of RSLs in Conwy county has actually only increased by 100 between 2022-23 and 2023-24, reaching 6,604 homes. At the same time, last year alone, Conwy spent £4 million providing temporary and emergency accommodation. The evidence is clear that demand is completely outstripping supply. I've said in the Chamber on several occasions that, where local authorities have identified land for housing in local development plans, applications from RSLs to build on that land should be fast-tracked through that system. It is completely wrong and unsustainable that it has taken years for some social housing schemes to go from concept to laying the first brick. What steps will you take, Cabinet Secretary, to fast-track the planning process for RSLs and generally good, rented social accommodation?

Diolch, Janet. As I said, the Cabinet Secretary for economy is leading on that planning consultation, which obviously has an impact in terms of housing. I think we must remember that, with the pressure in the system, we have already invested over £1.4 billion. This is a record annual budget of £411 million for social housing in the next financial year, and an additional £81 million compared to last year.

In Aberconwy, Builder Street, Llandudno will see 77 new homes completed by April 2026, and in Bryn Hyfryd, Llanrwst, 14 new homes are expected by September 2026. Over the first two years of the transitional accommodation capital programme—TACP—Conwy received an allocation of £12.3 million to bring forward 111 additional homes, which includes 65 void properties being brought back into use, which I think is really good, and something I want to see is bringing back to use those void properties. So, this year, Conwy are forecast to commit a further £3.2 million of TACP funding to bring forward another 39 additional homes, which includes 21 void properties, so I think there’s some real progress there.

But as I said, we’ve got a razor-sharp focus on this and we do know that we need to build more homes, more affordable homes, but more homes generally in Wales, and we are working to see where there are blockages in the system and how that can be unblocked.

Diolch, Siân. The 2025-26 provisional local government settlement provides over £6.1 billion in core revenue funding. Whilst this represents an average increase of 4.3 per cent or £253 million on a like-for-like basis, the Government is considering providing additional funding at final budget to ensure a minimum increase for each authority.

Thank you very much. For almost 15 years, Cyngor Gwynedd has been forced to cut its budget: a total of over £74 million in Gwynedd over that period. And of course, the council has continued to seek to maintain essential services that are important to our communities, but it’s becoming increasingly challenging, and therefore, local authorities have to be fairly funded. So, I take it from what you have just said that you do intend to set a minimum increase for local authorities, namely a financial floor or a safety net. That would provide a fairer foundation for Cyngor Gwynedd as they face these major challenges. Can you confirm, therefore, that you will set a floor for local government budgets?

Diolch, Siân, and I think this is something, as I said, that the Government and I are considering at the moment, because obviously we’ve seen some differences across Wales. So, as I said, the overall settlement uplift is an average of 4.3 per cent, but we know that the uplift for Gwynedd is the second lowest at 3.1 per cent. The difference between the Welsh average and the lowest increase is 1.7 percentage points, so that is something we look at in terms of funding floors at every opportunity in terms of the budget setting. Obviously, I’m very much aware that this is something that is of concern to Members and local authorities, and there is more of a difference this year than perhaps there has been in previous years as well. So, that is when a funding floor is appropriate, when the change in allocation for an individual authority is considered to be unmanageable.

Local authorities are required to undertake an assessment of housing need to inform detailed local understanding. This, in turn, informs local development plans and social housing grant prospectuses. We have allocated record levels of funding in the draft budget to help meet the need for affordable housing across Wales.

Given that the current estimates of housing need in Wales are based on outdated projections, on incomplete census data and figures, of course, that have changed dramatically in recent years, how does the Welsh Government justify its decision not to establish a Welsh housing survey? Without a robust, up-to-date evidence base, how can we make sure that housing policy is actually responding effectively to the actual housing need in Wales?

Diolch, Llyr. Local authorities are required to undertake an assessment of housing need, which is discharged through the local housing market assessment process. The first cycle of reports using the new approach has only recently been completed. Reports are being reviewed against the guidance to ensure that they include minimum requirements. While LHMAs provide a vital data source for local housing need, they're not meant to reflect the housing development appetites of a local authority, so there may not always be a direct correlation between the LHMA and the LDP or a prospectus. But LDPs must set out how and where the authority intends to provide the affordable and market homes to meet the target they have established. As I say, all local authorities have submitted a draft or final LHMA for consideration by officials, and officials have been and continue to work closely with all local authorities to ensure those LHMAs meet the requirements of the guidance.

Work has already begun on undertaking a lessons learned review on the new approach to the LHMAs, and local authorities have been engaged and provide feedback on how the process could be improved. There is further work to be undertaken, which will be completed over the coming months with a view to publish updated guidance in the autumn.

I thank the Cabinet Secretary.

We'll now move to questions to the Cabinet Secretary for Education. The first question is from Julie Morgan.

Since its launch, Taith has gone from strength to strength, with the goal of taking Wales to the world and bringing the world to Wales becoming a reality.

Thank you for that answer.

As we know, the aim of Taith is to help 15,000 students and staff in Wales to travel overseas, and for 10,000, in turn, to work or study in Wales. Of course, Taith is Wales's successor version of the Erasmus+ programme that the UK Government left as a result of Brexit. I am very glad that the Welsh Government has recognised the importance of giving our young people a chance to live and study abroad, despite the challenges that Brexit caused, because we want our young people in Wales to be outward-looking internationalists, and Taith helps our young people to experience new cultures and perspectives that they wouldn't otherwise have had.

Now, Cardiff University was tasked with the delivery of Taith, which I understand runs to 2026. So, with the recent announcement by Cardiff University that schools involved in delivering Taith are being affected by the planned cuts, I am concerned about its future. Could the Minister confirm that Taith will continue to run as planned until 2026, whether it will be renewed and where it will be based in the future if these cuts go ahead?

I'd like to thank Julie Morgan for that question. I share your enthusiasm for Taith, and I hope I can reassure you on your latter point as well. So, as you've said, it is an investment in our young people's futures, and we're ensuring that this generation of learners can benefit from these life-changing opportunities. I should say as well that it also extends to adult learners, and I've met a whole range of learners who've really benefited from Taith.

By the end of 2025, almost £30 million of Taith funding will have been awarded to projects in all education sectors across Wales. The breadth of organisations that have received funding I think really reflects our emphasis on delivering a programme that benefits all education and youth sectors across Wales. Taith has a real focus on providing opportunities for those who would not otherwise have them, and a refocused strategy published in October 2023 re-emphasises the core values of the programme, including a commitment to support people from under-represented groups, such as those from disadvantaged backgrounds, to take part.

On the delivery of Taith, Taith is delivered by the International Learning Exchange Programme Ltd, and that's a wholly owned subsidiary of Cardiff University. And because of that clear separation between the two and the Welsh Government's grant award letter being directly with ILEP Ltd, we are confident that the delivery of Taith will be unaffected by the wider situation involving Cardiff University. The current grant to deliver Taith ends in March 2027, and my officials are in the process of agreeing a one-year extension with ILEP Ltd, the organisation that delivers Taith, which will extend the end date to March 2028. But we are committed, in the long term, to Taith.

The Sustainable Communities for Learning programme has invested over £564 million of Welsh Government funding in South Wales East since 2014. I also recently approved strategic outline plans for over £707 million of Welsh Government investment across 42 projects in South Wales East under the nine-year rolling programme.

Diolch, Cabinet Secretary. When schools are being planned for and constructed, one would think that perhaps learners, teachers and headteachers would be involved in the planning process and the construction of the building. Unfortunately, this wasn't the case, was it, for Croesyceiliog School in Torfaen. When the building was finished, it looked fantastic, which I can testify to having visited it myself, but the headteachers, teachers and learners alike were quite shocked and surprised to see toilets in the wrong place, a canteen not fit for purpose and a main hall that was so small that students were still being forced, at exam time, to hire a room up the road, in a hall there. Had the local authority, students and headteacher been properly included in the planning and construction process, like we've seen in Monmouthshire and the fantastic new building that is King Henry VIII School in Abergavenny, this could've been easily avoided and everyone could've had a building that was practical and fit for purpose, as well as being aesthetically pleasing. So, Cabinet Secretary, how are you ensuring that all schools that are being planned for are being planned with all relevant and affected parties going forward, to ensure that the best schools possible schools are being delivered in Wales? Diolch.

Can I thank Laura Anne Jones for that supplementary question and assure her that, on lots of occasions, there is a lot of work done with the schools and obviously close working with the team on the ground in formulating these proposals? There's also a robust three-stage process of approval before school bids are reaching the stage when they do proceed. You referred to King Henry VIII School, which I know that you visited recently, and I'm sure that you welcome the £47 million of Welsh Labour Government funding for that school. But in my experience, when I've gone to see new schools, there has been a really thorough process of working with the school community. And indeed, also, I went to Pen y Dre High School a little while ago, and the young people there had been involved in lessons and learning related to the new school building. So, there are lots of opportunities here, and in my experience, there's a lot of co-production with our programme.

Cwestiynau nawr gan lefarwyr y pleidiau. Llefarydd y Ceidwadwyr, Natasha Asghar.

Thank you so much, Presiding Officer. Cabinet Secretary, the Welsh Government has been accused of palming off concerns about poor behaviour at Ysgol Dyffryn Aman three months before the stabbing of two teachers and a pupil. The school's former deputy head wrote to the Welsh Government in January 2024 to express concerns about pupil behaviour and what he described as a lack of clarity in guidelines in addressing it. Seven e-mails were exchanged between January 2024 and April 2024, with the last being sent on the morning of the attack itself. The former deputy head said when he spoke out recently, and I quote:

'There were a series of emails where the Government came back and palmed me off to some extent. I said I wasn’t happy with their response and I wanted a further conversation. The last email was sent on the morning of the attack...You never go into a school thinking that would happen, but I believe that there were warning signs for every school in Wales that something like this was going to happen...The Government is asleep at the wheel, and I really believe that. I want to see the guidelines give more powers to schools so that it is more clear what schools can do and what schools cannot do—and that this enables schools to be more strict.'

End quote. Cabinet Secretary, was the Welsh Government asleep at the wheel?

We absolutely weren't asleep at the wheel. If I can turn to the wider issues of behaviour and just re-emphasise to the Senedd that any form of violence against staff and pupils in schools is completely unacceptable. Schools should be safe places for learners and staff, and all education settings in Wales have a legal duty to provide a safe learning environment.

I've set out previously in the Chamber the range of steps we are taking to tackle some of the issues around behaviour in schools. Our exclusion guidance already makes it clear that the use or threat of using an offensive weapon can be grounds for exclusion. The possession or use of a weapon in a school setting is an exceptional circumstance that we recognise represents a risk beyond others, and so the school can take immediate and permanent action. Schools also have the power to search learners without consent where they're suspected of carrying a weapon, or with learner consent for other items such as vapes.

If I can just turn to your points about Ceri Myers. Ceri Myers, the then deputy headteacher at Ysgol Dyffryn Aman, first contacted us in January 2024. This was with regard to general issues of poor behaviour, the use of vapes and drugs and powers to search learners. Knives were not mentioned and he received a full response to his queries. There was a series of exchanges between Mr Myers and officials. He was provided with information about the power schools have to search learners, both with and without consent. Mr Myers met with senior officials in October 2024.

I myself have visited the school on two occasions to discuss the events that occurred. I believe we have provided clear advice and support, but can I be absolutely clear again that we did not receive any correspondence from Mr Myers relating to knives before the incident in Ysgol Dyffryn Aman? Indeed, you'll find that ITV, when they were provided with the correspondence and obviously relooked at the transcript of the interview with me, changed their story yesterday to correct that.

Cabinet Secretary, thank you for your response. I do appreciate it. As my colleagues, many of them, were saying behind, this very much happened after the fact itself. But you say the Government wasn't asleep at the wheel, so why did the former head feel that he was 'palmed off'?

Well, I think that I've set out for you, Natasha, that we had an ongoing dialogue with the former deputy headteacher. As I said, at no point were knives mentioned before the attack in Ysgol Dyffryn Aman. In fact, we proactively said in one of our responses to him that schools can search for knives and can exclude learners if they are found to have a knife. The issues Mr Myers raised were general issues around behaviour and related to vapes and drugs, and we also clarified what the position was in relation to searching for those items.

There is absolutely no question that he was 'palmed off'. Officials spent a good deal of time talking to him, both in correspondence and in a meeting. I myself wrote to him. So, I absolutely refute the suggestion that he was 'palmed off'.

Cabinet Secretary, I'm afraid, personally, to me, it appears the Welsh Government was indeed asleep at the wheel and continues to be so. On the morning of the attack the former deputy head e-mailed the Welsh Government referring to the powers English schools have, saying—and again I quote, for the benefit of this entire Chamber—why is it that the Welsh Government does not believe that similar measures are necessary in Wales to support schools, teachers and to protect our students? And he welcomed the opportunity to have a conversation regarding this. Hours later horrific scenes unfolded at the school, and I'm sad to say the Welsh Government never responded to his e-mail. Cabinet Secretary, in light of these serious allegations, has the Welsh Government reviewed its contact with the school to see if there were any missed opportunities and lessons to be learned?

This isn't an isolated issue with one school. Only recently there were reports of students being found with a knife at a school in Bridgend, showing that this is a widespread problem, and I'm sorry to say that it's only going to get worse as we go along. You've said previously that guidance in relation to the issue of knives is very clear, but the former deputy head's remarks contradict that. So, will you commit as a minimum to at least reviewing the guidelines now? We've heard much talk about the Government's upcoming behavioural summit, creating a toolkit for schools, but what action is the Welsh Government taking right here, right now? Thank you.

Okay. Natasha, I think you have to recognise that, if someone is answering your questions, it is important to actually listen to what they have to say, because I have been crystal clear that the letters and e-mails that we had off Mr Myers did not relate to knives. Now, as far as I'm concerned, all correspondence, as far as I can see, was replied to, from Mr Myers, and officials also met him. I also replied to him myself. We have been crystal clear about the powers that exist in Wales in relation to knives, which are already very strong. Schools can exclude if a pupil has a knife in school. That is already very, very clear. Now, in relation to what happened at Ysgol Dyffryn Aman that day, I just would like to assure the Member that there was an immediate exercise after what happened to review what had happened in terms of the way that the school had executed their emergency procedures, which they did really, really well, and handled it all in a very, very thorough and appropriate way. We also then asked all local authorities to review their emergency procedures, to make sure that everybody's procedures were up to date.

In terms of wider learning from what's happened at Ysgol Dyffryn Aman, I've been very clear since the trial finished that there does have to be learning based on what happened, and it has been announced by the local authority that there will be a multi-agency professional forum, looking into matters leading up to the incident last April. That process will involve sharing of information and insights from different perspectives, to ensure a comprehensive understanding of the circumstances that led to the incident. We do, of course, need to give the regional safeguarding board the time that they need to undertake the multi-agency professional forum, and I would encourage anyone who has anything to share with them to come forward.

And just to add, I'll be speaking with the local authority and with the regional safeguarding board in the coming weeks. We are also working with the local authority on a meeting with teachers affected by the incident, as I committed to after the verdict was announced, although I have already met Fiona Elias once, on one of the two occasions when I have visited the school. Obviously, if any learning emerges from the incident for the Welsh Government, then we will take that on board. But we already keep these documents, the guidance on weapons and also the guidance on emergency responses, under very regular review. It was reviewed several times last year, the guidance on emergency responses, and, in fact, changes were made to that guidance following what happened at Ysgol Dyffryn Aman.

The Plaid Cymru spokesperson, Cefin Campbell.

Diolch yn fawr iawn, Llywydd. Can I thank Natasha for asking those really important questions around security in Ysgol Dyffryn Aman? But I want to go on to something completely different.

In November of last year, I submitted written questions to you as Cabinet Secretary, asking what the total and urgent maintenance backlog for school buildings is in Wales. Your answer revealed, shockingly—but why are we not surprised—that the Welsh Government didn't believe it had a responsibility to collect this data centrally. Since then, in December—the following month—you announced around £10 million in additional funding for the current financial year for schools to fix and repair maintenance issues. Now, given that the Welsh Government has now seemingly looked at this issue, and provided some further funding, I assume you are now able to answer my original question, which I'll ask again: what is the total and urgent maintenance backlog for school buildings in Wales?

Well, can I thank Cefin Campbell for that question? He will have heard my answer to Laura Anne Jones, which demonstrates the scale of our investment in school buildings, which is in very sharp contrast to what has happened over the border. Not only are we investing in new buildings, through our record-breaking Sustainable Communities for Learning programme, but we are also prioritising investment for schools and local authorities to undertake necessary repairs. The information on repairs is, obviously, held at local authority level. We had a very regular dialogue with local authorities not long before the budget was set—the draft budget. I met with all leaders of councils. I also met with executive members from the Association of Directors of Education in Wales, and all of them were talking to me about pressures that they were experiencing in maintaining school buildings, which is why we announced the additional funding. So, we announced £35 million capital for school and college repairs and £20 million of that was for maintenance—so, yes.

Well, if the Welsh Government still don't know beyond the anecdotal or even collect this information, it certainly raises questions of how we can be confident that public funds from the Welsh Government are being used in the most effective way, especially if you don't know the size or the scale of the problem. Nonetheless, undeterred by the non-answer to our written questions, Plaid Cymru submitted freedom of information requests to all Welsh local authorities to find out what the school building maintenance backlog actually is and how many schools require urgent maintenance work. From the responses that we received from 19 out of 22 councils, we can reveal that the total maintenance backlog for the school building estate in Wales is at least £0.5 billion, with an average of £24.6 million per local authority. The total urgent maintenance backlog is at least £93.8 million. At least 355 schools require urgent maintenance, which is 24 per cent of all schools in Wales. In Torfaen, Cabinet Minister, in your own constituency, 31 out of 32 schools require urgent maintenance. After 26 years of Labour in power in Wales, is that a state of affairs that you're proud of?

Well, thank you, Cefin, and, as I said in my answer to your initial question, we provided additional in-year funding of £20 million for school repairs. That's on top of the money that was in the budget anyway for repairs, and on top of the money for Sustainable Communities for Learning. I think what Plaid Cymru fails to ever do is recognise that when you call for money for things, you never have to actually identify where that money has to come from—

It's your responsibility.

We have prioritised, as part of our budget, schools, education, and that includes funding for school buildings. Every week, you stand up here and you call for different pots of funding for different things, without any concept of what we are doing in terms of trying to prioritise the budget to deliver for Wales. Now, I am proud of our record on school capital and I am proud that we are continuing to invest in school buildings. And we're only able to make that additional investment in-year as a result of the additional money that the Labour Government provided in their budget.

But the £10 million out of £0.5 billion that is needed doesn't even touch the sides. And the problem is that you don't even know the extent of the problem because you don't collect the data—you don't ask for the information that we've done quite easily; you could do that to know what the extent of the problem is.

Research studies going back many years have shown that students' educational attainment improves in schools with better physical learning environments. Labour in Wales are clearly failing pupils by not providing them with a safe environment in which to learn, and this also has an impact on teachers. A recent survey of teachers in Wales found that a third of them said that poor buildings and facilities disempowered them professionally as teachers or school leaders. That is the impact of Welsh Labour's £0.5 billion repair backlog bill for our schools. That's why Plaid Cymru is calling for a full and detailed national survey of the condition of school buildings, in order to get a clear and consistent picture of the crisis on the ground. So, does the Cabinet Secretary agree with me in that regard, that we need that survey? Isn't it time that the Welsh Government, once and for all, understood the state of the school estate in Wales?

All local authorities monitor their school estate. They all have an obligation to make sure that the school estate is safe and fit for purpose. I do find this line of questioning a little bit puzzling given that we are making record amounts of investment in our school buildings—nearly £2 billion since this latest programme started on new buildings. That’s aside from the money that we provide for repairs.

I think it’s also important to recognise that funding goes into the RSG for repairs, and we continue to have that dialogue with local government. But I think, if you talk to local government, you will find that they are very appreciative of how, as a Government, we have continued to invest in school capital.

You are right when you say that school buildings make a huge difference to attainment, to well-being, to staff retention. That’s why we have got a record of continuing to invest in those school buildings, and that is despite 14 years of austerity when our capital budgets have been under huge pressure. This Welsh Labour Government has continued to invest in facilities for our children, young people and our teachers.

We are committed to supporting apprenticeships through our tertiary education and skills policies. We are working closely with Medr, which, through consultation with partners and stakeholders, will shape future apprenticeship provision in Wales in line with the Welsh Government’s priorities. Funding for apprenticeships this year and next is £144 million.

Thank you for that response. It was good to discuss during apprenticeship week last week how apprenticeships can help young people to release their potential. We need that potential in Anglesey for the digital sector, in M-SParc, for the food sector, for the renewable energy sector, and so on and so forth. But, last year, Coleg Llandrillo Menai had to reject applications because they didn't have the capacity to offer the same number of opportunities as they had previously, and, of course, funding was at the heart of that. So, what’s the Minister’s plan, and that of her Cabinet colleagues, to ensure that the providers of apprenticeships, such as Coleg Menai, do get the support that they need so that those young people who want opportunities through apprenticeships can have those opportunities?

Thank you, Rhun, for that follow-up question. I have been looking at the situation at Grŵp Llandrillo Menai. I think that the issue you’re alluding to there is specific to the construction apprenticeship and the removal of level 2 there. If so, I’d like to reassure you that that’s not specifically related to funding, but rather stems from the outcome of the Qualifications Wales sector review conducted seven to eight years ago. They’ve now brought in, in line with those recommendations, level 3 qualifications, which are in line with standards identified by CITB specifically for use in Wales. So, there would be some learners who would not yet be ready for a level 3 qualification, but they are then able to undertake a level 2 qualification, from which they can progress on to a level 3 apprenticeship, where no prior learning will be repeated and all prior learning would be considered as they move through. If there are issues other than that and you wish to write to me and the Minister for skills jointly, then please do so.

I'm grateful to Rhun ap Iorwerth for raising this point, because, of course, one of the great opportunities on Ynys Môn is the Welsh Government supported Anglesey free port, creating more jobs, more opportunity for young people and people of all ages across the island, and it’s an opportunity that’s going to impact, and is impacting, Ynys Môn, but also north Wales as a whole, in particular places like my colleague Janet Finch-Saunders represents in Aberconwy. The opportunities for the region are really important.

But, of course, having the right education structure and systems in place to enable the free port to flourish is also very important, as I’m sure you would acknowledge. And in the free-port bid, it specifically mentioned a strong educational component as part of that bid, and there are three areas it focused on, one of which is customs and trade; there's then supply chain management and, as it describes, all aspects of energy. So, I wonder, Minister, whether you’ve had any specific conversations about the role of education with the free-port work, and the free port on Ynys Môn, and where the opportunities might be to see whether it’s further apprenticeships or other types of education to ensure that the free port is able to flourish as best as possible. Thank you.

Thank you, Sam, for that question, and I agree with you that the free port brings tremendous opportunities to Ynys Môn and the whole region as well. I will be visiting north Wales the week after recess to have discussions with both HE and FE on a range of issues. So, I look forward to those conversations, which could look into the issues that you have brought forward there, and I’ll be keen to progress further conversations with the Cabinet Secretary for economy and the Minister for skills on that as well.

Local authorities have recently prioritised investment in their education estate for their areas as part of their nine-year plan under our sustainable communities for learning programme. A proposed £750 million capital funding investment has been identified over the lifetime of this new programme for specialist provision, which includes pupil referral units.

Thank you. In 2023-24, there were 2,597 pupils receiving some type of education other than at school provision, up over 200 pupils from the year before. Nearly half of these students are placed in pupil referral units, PRUs. Since the pandemic, local authorities have reported a significant rise in referrals, putting an immense strain on already stretched provision. And, of course, places in a pupil referral unit in Aberconwy remain at a premium.

Now, some headteachers have mentioned to me that these PRUs are often in old, disused buildings—cold, draughty, not fit for purpose. Now, with your new building schools model—I’ve witnessed it when we had Ysgol y Gogarth, a new school build and everything, and Ysgol Awel y Mynydd in Llandudno Junction—they are tailor-made for that particular education system. I believe that children disenfranchised from the education system still deserve their education to be provided in a warm, safe building. Will you look at making sure that there is an emphasis on these pupil referral units, because it’s just not right as it is at the moment? Diolch.

Well, can I thank Janet for that question? I know that you are a particular advocate for our children and young people in PRUs, and I think that’s really important. We have, as I said, earmarked £750 million capital funding—that’s for special schools and PRUs. That can’t be spent on other things. There is also a lower intervention rate. We provide more money for local authorities when they’re investing in a PRU. So, special schools and pupil referral units attract a 75 per cent Welsh Government contribution, which is higher than the standard 65 per cent contribution for mainstream projects.

It is a matter for local authorities, obviously, to look at their estate and to submit bids, and I’ve already referred today to the process that is gone through. I firmly agree with you that we want our children to be educated, including our most vulnerable children, in the best possible buildings. And all local authorities can bid for that funding, and we have protected that funding for that purpose.

Roll-out of the Curriculum for Wales will be complete for all learners up to the age of 16—year 11—by September 2026. Our formative evaluation is ongoing, providing valuable information about the guidance and support needed by schools to ensure all children get the best education possible.

Thank you, Cabinet Secretary. Menstrual health is an incredibly important subject, which should be ingrained into students from a young age. Whilst the new curriculum mandates the teaching of menstrual health within schools, the quality indeed varies from school to school. For example, one school might deliver a strong in-depth session on menstrual health, but then we’ll visit a school five miles down the road and they will completely skate over the subject and just focus on the bare basics. I recently had the pleasure of meeting with Anna Cooper, who is a co-founder of the Menstrual Health Project, a charity which supports people experiencing menstrual health conditions and concerns. Equipping youngsters with a thorough menstrual health education can reduce the amount a person suffers, as they will feel more empowered to advocate for themselves to get answers for their painful periods. Wales is, sadly, the worst nation in terms of diagnosing endometriosis, with an average wait of nine years and 10 months. And, in most cases, women have suffered since their early teens, due to never actually understanding what they were experiencing was abnormal. To that end, Cabinet Secretary, will you commit to meeting with the Menstrual Health Project team to explore a partnership to ensure that students are getting an informative and universal menstrual health education in our schools? Thank you.

Thank you, Natasha. And that's an important issue. It is vital that we empower our young people to know about menstrual health. It helps with tackling stigma, it helps with attendance and good mental health, and that's why it is something that we cover as part of our curriculum. And I'm very happy to meet with the organisation that you've referred to. 

Evidently, part of the new curriculum will, we hope, focus on modern languages. I wonder if I could press you on opportunities that are afforded by that. Modern languages are seeing a deeply worrying decline in the number of GCSE and A-level pupils taking those subjects. Now, Language Trends Wales's research last year found that over the past decade entries for French and German GCSEs have more than halved. Now, many schools don't run courses at all if there aren't enough pupils. Now, if we don't reverse this trend, both through the new curriculum and before, a generation of young people will lose out on more than languages, because we know that, when you learn a language, it isn't just about learning words on a page, it's about seeing how another culture sees the world, and that window onto another world could close. You learn idioms, you learn slang, the way a language breathes, how it belongs, how it's moulded by its speakers. And I worry—I wonder if you would agree—that, if we don't reverse that trend, we will prevent this generation of children from having the skill, the insight, the understanding. So, how would you use the new curriculum to reverse the trend, please? 

Thank you, Delyth. And I know that, as a languages student yourself, as I was, that you are passionate about languages. The decline in international languages is, unfortunately, part of a general picture across the UK and not unique to Wales. We are in a good position, I think, in Wales, in that we've introduced international languages at primary school, through the new curriculum. That means more learners than ever in Wales are learning to speak a modern foreign language, and our task now is to support those schools in integrating language teaching into their curricula and build on the momentum that is generating. We also have our Global Futures programme, which is our focused plan to tackle some of the challenges with modern foreign languages, and I'd encourage all schools to engage with that. And we did extend the period of the programme by a year, so that we could see how the changes in primary are bedding in.

I don't think the picture is entirely bleak. I think we have to recognise the strengths as well. Where learners are choosing an international language qualification, they are doing really well. For example, in 2024, German entries rose from 355 the year before to 465, with 47 per cent of those learners receiving an A or above. So, it's heartening to see that there is that increase in entries in German. What I'd like to see is an increase in modern foreign languages across the board. 

You'll be aware that we've also got initiatives like e-sgol, which is helping with modern foreign languages. So, where there are very small numbers of young people wanting to do modern foreign languages in Gwent, for instance, those schools are working together via e-sgol. But I think the new curriculum does give us a really good opportunity, because young children are like sponges, and that's why they do so well when they learn Welsh from a very early age, isn't it? So, we've got that opportunity now and it's important that we continue to drive that. 

I announced in October the establishment of a national body to deliver professional learning and leadership support for our teachers, leaders, teaching assistants and advisers. The body will bring together some of the current functions of the national academy and the local authority partnerships, and will be operational from September.

Thank you, Cabinet Secretary, for that response. I welcome the national academy for educational leadership. I support its main purposes, which are to contribute to the development of the professional capabilities of current and aspiring leaders across the educational system; to act as a thought leader, developing, articulating and implementing a vision and strategy for educational leadership in Wales; to be a respected and active member of the education middle tier, the first point of contact for the educational workforce in regard to leadership matters. My questions are: how is it going to achieve this, and how are staff going to be protected during the changes? 

Thank you, Mike, and the national academy is continuing to deliver on its remit and recently published its latest annual report, outlining the range of opportunities for education leaders to develop and network. But, as you'll be aware, the review of our education partners and other related reviews have been clear about the need for national leadership and providing national support where required. We also heard evidence that there were too many organisations involved in the development and delivery of professional learning and leadership support. So, that's why we've taken the decision to establish a new national body that will enable us to make best use of resources, will create consistency in terms of the availability and quality of national professional learning, and be agile and responsive to changing practitioner and Welsh Government priorities, and also be clear for the workforce and the wider public. 

If I can say, I appreciate this is a difficult time for staff in all organisations affected by these changes. I'd like to thank all of these staff for their dedication to supporting our schools' practitioners and leaders, and assure the Member that we are working closely with all staff affected by the changes to minimise the impact. 

Estyn’s annual report provides a valuable, independent account of how the education system is performing. I agree with the chief inspector’s assessment that there are strengths in the system but also areas to improve, which is consistent with my priorities to boost standards and improve attendance. 

You seem to have a very generous reading of that report, because the annual report marked another year of the same issues being highlighted yet again when it comes to our Welsh education system: attendance rates still nowhere near where they need to be; the gap growing between the attendance of those on free school meals and those not—on average, secondary school pupils eligible for free school meals are still missing one day of school per week, a devastating statistic that needs urgent action from the Welsh Government—as well as a decline in recruitment and retention that continues to impact teaching standards for our young people, with subjects like maths, science and Welsh highlighted with significant concern in terms of standards; plus too much variation in schools' understanding of the new curriculum. 

But if the report says one thing, I think it says this, and it's that, under Labour, education in Wales is broken, and it's because this Welsh Labour Government has continued to prioritise their ideology over the evidence in our education system. What we need is a new approach, to follow what works to fix education in Wales. So, will we see that before the election or will it be down to us to sort it after the election?

Well, if I can be very clear that the report certainly doesn't say that education is broken in Wales, and I also wouldn't hold my breath for you to be in a position to sort it out after the election either.

Now, if I can turn to some of the genuine issues that you raised in the report, I entirely recognise what Estyn are saying about attendance. In fact, I'm meeting with Estyn tomorrow to discuss attendance, and will also be discussing the other issues that they've raised in their annual report. Boosting attendance is a priority for this Government; it's one of the priorities set out by the First Minister. We have underpinned that with £8.8 million of additional funding, which I have set out in a statement in this Chamber.

On the issues of recruitment and retention, there are challenges there. Recruitment to our primary sector is buoyant; it is more challenging in the secondary sector, and, obviously, I recognise the issues that are highlighted in the annual report. We are working hard to boost recruitment. As you'll be aware, Tom, we have a priority subject incentive scheme, which is targeted at priority subjects, which include our science, technology, engineering and mathematics subjects, modern foreign languages, and Welsh. We also offer an additional £5,000 incentive for students who train through the medium of Welsh, and a further £5,000 incentive for students from a recognised ethnic minority who train to teach.

You'll be aware that I announced, quite recently, the plans to develop a strategic workforce plan for education in Wales. That will be an opportunity to look across the board at the challenges that we're facing in recruitment and retention, which are by no means restricted to Wales; we are seeing the same issues in the rest of the UK and, indeed, in other countries. We are very focused on working in partnership with our trade union colleagues, and with practitioners, to tackle those issues.

 Finally, question 8, James Evans.

It is essential that any allegations of misconduct must be properly investigated. This is legally the responsibility of the school, the governing body and, where necessary, the local authority. These bodies must have regard to Welsh Government guidance. Welsh Ministers are unable to intervene in individual cases.

Thank you for your answer, Cabinet Secretary. I've been contacted by a number of constituents deeply concerned about the allegations of misconduct in schools and about how they are being handled. Too often, what we see is schools investigating themselves, and then, when things are escalated up to the local education authority, those bodies are marking their own homework, with no external actors coming in to make sure they're doing everything correctly. That undermines the transparency and public confidence in the process.

Additionally, it has also been raised with me about a clear conflict of interest where Senedd Members serve as school governors, potentially influencing decisions on misconduct within their schools, and sometimes people are wondering whether they're looking after their own political careers and not the people who are actually coming forward with misconduct complaints. So, I'll be interested to hear from you. I know you said the Welsh Government can't intervene, but surely there must be a role here for the Welsh Government, if people do not think this process is working correctly, that the Welsh Government must step in, to make sure there is an independent process, so anybody that has complained feels that they are going to be listened to.

And finally, Cabinet Secretary, we excluded Senedd Members from being councillors because of the conflict of interest issues, so I'm just interested to hear from you: do you think there could be a position where school governors are barred from being school governors, because of the potential conflict of interest, that things that we do here can directly influence our schools?

Thank you very much, James, and I know that, obviously, you've written to me about this issue, and I will be replying to you shortly. We do expect all complaints to be handled fairly, openly and without bias. We expect governing bodies to have and publicise a complaints procedure that explains how a complaint will be dealt with. The local authority is responsible for ensuring that the governing body follows its agreed procedure, and the local authority can look at the process the governing body use to consider a complaint. There are also statutory provisions for intervention in the law. You will be aware that if someone is unhappy with a local authority, they can also make a complaint to the local authority, and if that isn't resolved to their satisfaction, then there is the opportunity to go to the ombudsman. 

I thank the Cabinet Secretary for that item.

The topical questions are next, and the first of these questions is to be answered by the Minister for Further and Higher Education, and to be asked by Andrew R.T. Davies.

I understand the University of South Wales is speaking to staff and students from today, and I recognise the anxiety that this uncertainty will cause. I have been clear that I expect any university making changes that affect its workforce to work in social partnership with trade unions, staff and students.

Thank you, Minister, for that reply. Sadly, my electoral region has seen two major announcements now—one from Cardiff University and now from the University of South Wales. These are big numbers that we are talking about, and they highlight the pressures that the higher education sector is under. After meeting with Cardiff University the other day, they pointed out that, obviously, they couldn't speak to other universities because of Competition and Markets Authority rules and regulations. Are the Government acting as a convening power now that these proposals are coming out, to see what roles the universities can jointly work to, to protect courses and protect jobs? Because I think that's an important facilitating role, while respecting the independence of universities to be able to obviously manage their affairs independently of Government.

And, as I highlighted in my opening remarks, my electoral region, if these proposals are carried out in their entirety, would have seen in excess of 1,000 jobs lost across the region. What work are you undertaking, along with the economy Minister, to support those members of staff through Welsh Government initiatives to make sure that help to secure additional employment in other areas—so that we do not lose those important people from our local economy—is maintained to the best of the Welsh Government's ability, in conjunction with the universities, to find alternative employment for them?

And thirdly, it is really important that research is promoted in Welsh universities and patents, in particular, are secured, so that revenue streams can be secured for HE facilities. Sadly, Wales has a lamentable record on attracting those patents that would bring revenues into universities. Because there is not going to be an uptick in the number of students coming through the HE sector, so those third, fourth and fifth stream revenue indicators are vital, and the Welsh Government do have a role in trying to secure those patents and increased research funding from the UK Government to make sure that those streams are secured here in Wales.

Can I thank Andrew R.T. Davies for those follow-up questions? I will deal firstly with the issue around the Competition and Markets Authority rules that you raised there. This is something that I have asked Medr to look into as a matter of urgency, and you'll see if you read academic articles on this, there's not a straightforward answer at the moment. There's a different interpretation of the rules from place to place within the UK, and I understand that the Competition and Markets Authority is actually very keen to clarify these issues for the whole of the UK, not just Wales, and I think that that's really essential. Because what we certainly need to see is dialogue between universities that can help with collaboration, and that's something that I have asked of them since I was brought into post in September. And certainly, through these difficult times, that is what we are looking for and what we need. And it ties in with Medr's programme of reform as well. So, you will be aware that they are setting out their first strategic plan shortly and will be consulting on a new regulatory system, with a focus on quality governance, financial management and staff and student welfare. I've also asked them to map out course provision across Wales, so that we've got a picture of that national provision, including through the Welsh language. So, all of that ties into the issue that you've raised there, I believe, with the Competition and Markets Authority rules.

Regarding research funding, that is something, since we left the European Union, that our universities here have struggled with, struggled to access as much funding as they did previously. Again, this is something that I've asked Medr to look into, because certainly we in Welsh Government want to do all we can to enable our universities to have access to funding streams, as much as possible, through the UK Government's research funding. So, that is another line of work that I am progressing at the moment.

Finally, on your question regarding employment, at the moment these proposals are just proposals, and indeed there's been no formal announcement from the University of South Wales yet. So, I don't want to pre-empt and to speculate on that, but certainly, if it does come to the point where job losses occur, then that is something that we will be looking to put in place—support there.

Well, Llywydd, here we are again following the recent announcement by Cardiff University about the possibility of the loss of 400 jobs and courses being closed down. The dominoes are starting to fall, one after the other. There is now a consultation again at the University of South Wales about the possibility of job losses and cutting courses, and there's been confirmation this afternoon about the possible risk of losing 200 jobs at Bangor University. All of this news is a real blow to the higher education sector in Wales. We can't over-emphasise the gravity of the situation facing Welsh universities, yet again Welsh Labour continues to turn a blind eye to all of these jobs that are being lost, and offers no solutions whatsoever.

Minister, one particular concern I have, especially in regard to the news at the University of South Wales is that they, like Cardiff, are considering potentially closing whole-subject courses. In response to Plaid Cymru's recent debate on the HE sector in Wales, the Minister stated that the closure of courses at Cardiff would be mitigated by moving the provision from one institution to another, including USW. So, one question to the Minister is this: has she been able to make an assessment in her discussions with USW of what courses are at risk there, and are they the same courses that are at risk in Cardiff? 

So, it's clear to me that we urgently need a comprehensive and wholesale review of Welsh university funding, because clearly the current model is fundamentally broken. That is why I wrote to you recently asking for all parties to work together with stakeholders and experts in higher education in Wales to agree a sustainable future model. Therefore, does the Minister not agree that it would be beneficial to start such a review immediately, so that it could report back by the spring of next year, in order to equip the next Welsh Government with a plan for positive change on the basis of both a strong body of evidence and political consensus across parties?

Thank you, Cefin, for those questions and comments. I strongly reject your accusation that the Welsh Government are turning a blind eye to the situation facing our universities. In fact, just yesterday, I announced an additional £19 million for universities to help them to reduce operating costs and to maintain international marketing activities through Global Wales, and that is the third funding boost that I've been able to allocate to the sector for this financial year, coming on top of the £200 million that was already allocated to them through Medr; the increase in tuition fees, which will provide up to £21.9 million in additional income to the universities; and the announcement of an additional £10 million last autumn following the UK Government's autumn statement.

You then addressed courses. As I said in my answer to Andrew R.T. Davies, I have asked Medr to map out course provision across Wales, so that we've got that national picture of provision, including Welsh language provision. I think that's really important too. But what I don't think we should do is stand in this Chamber, in our national Parliament of Wales, and speculate on issues where there has been no formal announcement from the University of South Wales yet. I believe it's really important that we respect the process. The university is, this afternoon, talking to staff and students, and it wouldn't be appropriate, I believe, for myself or anyone else to conjecture about areas that might be affected. Once that information has been provided to me, then I would, of course, be happy to stand again in this Chamber and answer any specific questions about areas that might be affected. You mentioned your letter to me; I hope you've been able to see the response that I've issued to that.

And with regard to a review, I think everyone in this Chamber agrees that we need to have reform of the HE sector. My approach is, and will always be, to talk to as many people as possible to understand the challenges facing our universities. I'm working firstly with the UK Government to ensure that we're committing to their plans for HE reform, because so many of the issues are national and international, so it's only right that I do that, and my primary concern will always be ensuring that any outcomes are relevant to the needs of Wales.

Reform in Wales is already under way with new legislation in place and the creation of Medr, and I want to make the most of this significant opportunity to transform the sector by talking to as many people as possible. I've invited all vice-chancellors to a round-table meeting in the week after recess for more discussions about the current challenges facing the sector, and I speak regularly, not just to vice-chancellors, but to staff, unions and learners too. And I'm also looking at how we currently fund our student support package and how we can encourage learners to aspire to higher education, as part of my focus on increasing and widening participation.

I'm pleased that Universities Wales and the University and College Union have welcomed the announcement I made yesterday of additional support for the sector. I noted that we've worked constructively and positively together. So, I hope that reassures you that there's already a lot of work ongoing within Welsh Government to address these key challenges.

I want to go back, Minister, to the answer you gave to Andrew Davies, because all universities are impacted by the flatlining of their income from student fees and the increase in costs, and that is why we are seeing so many universities in difficulties. And I think it's really important that all the universities we have are maintained because they all play a crucial role in our education and economic development landscape. But they must be able to collaborate. So, I spoke to Universities UK's chief executive officer, Vivienne Stern, at the reception that you and I both attended last week, and she said that it's possible they might have given the impression that universities couldn't discuss changes with each other because they might be in breach of the Competition and Markets Authority's rules. And that has led to a whole series of events where people haven't been able to have rational conversations about how we can best organise things with less money. I really want to press you to get the CMA to give us the advice we absolutely need. Because looking at the courses that USW are saying they're going to concentrate on in their research—they're all important. But we need to ensure that whatever else they think they're going to have to drop is something that we'll be able to pick up elsewhere. Obviously, there's a cross-over with nursing in both Cardiff University and USW for the same cohort of population, so we need to have these conversations, and it's really, really urgent that we do. So, I wondered if can just find out when the CMA's going to pronounce.

Thank you, Jenny, for those additional questions, and I agree with the points you make, firstly, on student tuition fees. We want to protect students from excessive cost, but at the same time we need to balance the needs of our universities to receive the funding that they require, and that's why both myself and the previous Cabinet Secretary for Education took that difficult decision to raise tuition fees over the last two years. And just in relation to the increase that I myself have authorised, we know that that's likely to bring an extra £29.1 million to the sector, and that is very much needed.

I agree with everything you say regarding the Competition and Markets Authority issue as well. We urgently require clarification on that. Medr are leading on that. But as I say, the CMA themselves appear to have grasped the nettle on this now and are ready to engage, because it's absolutely crucial at any time that universities have that clear guidance on where collaboration is appropriate and where the edges of that lie, but especially now, when the sector is requiring so much additional help, this is a key part of the issues that we face, and I'm hoping that we will receive strong guidance from the Competition and Markets Authority on that for the benefit of the whole sector very shortly.

When a young person applies to university, it's a key moment in their lives, and I'm sure you can appreciate, for those that have made applications for both Cardiff University and also the University of South Wales, that uncertainty about whether a course will exist or not is also creating that concern more widely at a time where they need to be focused on their studies. We already saw last week the University of Wales warning that Wales will be at an economic disadvantage if we don't increase the number of Welsh students going to university, with only 32 per cent of Welsh 18-year-olds applying to universities in January, a percentage point down from this time last year, and well below the UK average of 40.6 per cent across the UK.

So, Minister, I know that you said in interviews that you want to make it easier for more young people to go to university, but how can we do that if the courses don't exist, and especially locally to them, because many in the region that I represent choose to live at home, and travel to both the Cardiff University and the University of South Wales? So, how can we make it as easy as possible, if these courses not only don't exist within the region, but potentially in Wales?

Thank you, Heledd, for those follow-up questions, and I'll try to deal with all the issues that you raised there. Firstly, in terms of student applications, and I'll only speak to Cardiff here now, because Cardiff is the only university where we've had that formal announcement, but certainly Cardiff has contacted all students that have applied for courses that are under consideration for removal in the future, to ensure that those students are aware that that course still stands for the next academic year and that they commit to teaching that course out for the duration.

I agree with you completely, we need more of our young people and mature learners to go to university. The evidence shows that, absolutely, and that's one of the reasons why the Cabinet Secretary and myself invested £1.5 million in the widening participation agenda, which I've spoken about in this Chamber a number of times already. What we're looking to do there, specifically in terms of HE, is to repurpose the current Seren programme so that we can look at how those young people who currently show in school that they've got the potential to go to university, but might not be aware of that themselves, are given that helping hand and that guidance to help them make that informed decision, that university could well be for them. And also, of course, the Cabinet Secretary's investment in attainment and attendance is all part of that, so that we can build that pipeline of potential students for the future.

And in terms of course provision that you referred to here in Wales, I agree with you completely. What I want to see is that wide range, that breadth of courses, offered here in our Welsh universities and through both the medium of Welsh and English, and that's why Medr have already begun mapping out that course provision for us. I'll be having a round-table meeting with vice-chancellors in the week after recess, and this will be a matter that I will raise with them, and it's also my expectation that all universities in Wales continue to engage in a widening participation agenda, and I look forward to being able to bring back some answers from that to the Senedd in due course.

The news emerging from Bangor University this afternoon is a huge cause of concern in the entire area. There is a £15 million deficit, and that's a huge deficit, and it could lead to a cut of around 200 jobs, which would be a major blow to the economy in north-west Wales and to the society there as a whole. Bangor University is a major employer and is an important part of life locally, so the news will cause a huge amount of concern, not just to the staff and the students and prospective students, but to local businesses too—those who provide all kinds of services to the university and those businesses where the 10,000 students and the 2,000 staff members spend their money locally. 

The university has been seeking voluntary redundancies for some weeks, but I am gravely concerned that mandatory redundancies will be inevitable now. And this cut is on top of major cuts that have already been made in recent years. So, don't you now have to acknowledge the level of the crisis facing the higher education sector in Wales and provide revenue funding as a matter of urgency to Bangor University? I would also like to know what discussions you are having with the Cabinet Secretary for the economy, bearing in mind the key role of the university in terms of local employment. What kinds of support can be provided from that direction too?

I'd like to thank you, Siân, for those questions. And like the questions that have already been put to me about USW, what I would say at this juncture, at this particular juncture with Bangor, is that there has been no formal announcement from the university yet. There's been some information that has been leaked to the media, but I do understand that Bangor is at the start of a consultation process, so they're not going to be announcing any proposals around courses until they've engaged fully with staff and students through that process, and I think that that's the right way for them to do it. So, just like with the University of South Wales, I don't want to go into too much detail on my views on things at this juncture, because I think it's really important that staff and students hear about these proposals, that a formal announcement is made from the university, and after that, I would be happy to take further questions in this Chamber on that.

But I'd like to really reassure you that I fully appreciate the importance of Bangor University to that region. The economic, educational and social links that it has there are deep-rooted and crucially important and, as a result of that, there are cross-Government conversations that are ongoing in Cabinet about these issues. And in terms of the connection with the business community as well, we know that Bangor University has a vitally important role to play in the region there, and that's why—. It's very bittersweet now, isn't it, but that's why it was so pleasing to hear the announcement last week that the university had been bequeathed that £10.5 million, which they can invest now in their business school, with the aim of continuing, deepening and strengthening those links with the regional economy and bringing more prosperity to the area.

I have to say that I'm slightly disappointed with the accusation of conjecture being thrown at Cefin Campbell. We had the Minister allude to that in response to Siân Gwenllian as well. I don't think there's anything wrong in asking questions about what the Government's plan is for when the sector is faced with the news of further job losses. We need leadership from the Minister, and I think that it's perfectly reasonable to be asking questions around what the Government's plans are.

Now, the Minister pointed to the funding that she announced yesterday. Now, that's capital funding; that isn't the issue here. But it also undermines as well the line that we've had from Government over the last couple of weeks that it's completely powerless in this situation, because you are showing an intervention here that could be made in many other ways. Now, when you fund the higher education sector to the tune of millions, you are far from powerless.

Cefin Campbell asked around a cross-party group looking at the funding formula. This was something that should have been done years ago. And when I listened to your answer to Cefin Campbell, I sensed a reluctance to move on that as soon as possible. We've heard that you've got a meeting with the vice-chancellors, now, after the recess—why not make the moves now to discuss the funding formula? We all know in this Chamber it's completely flawed, it's completely broken, and it could be one of the solutions that we need to get the funding of higher education sorted. Why the reluctance? Why aren't we moving on this now? It should have been done years ago.

Thank you, Luke, for those questions. I'm happy to respond and to unpick and to clarify things. So, yes, my meeting with the vice-chancellor is in the week after recess, but that doesn't mean that work is not ongoing now. I've got Welsh Government officials, Medr, working already on the work that we need to do to see reform of the sector. We've got, of course, the review of the Diamond reform. That is ongoing and I expect some early findings from that by the autumn, and the funding formula is a key part of that. I'm of course happy to talk about Welsh Government's plans to support the sector, and I feel I've done that already in my answers to other Members. But the only thing I don't want to do is to comment on specific conjecture about particular issues within each university, when staff and students are still having those discussions. Once a formal announcement has been made, then I am more than happy to discuss those issues there.

You asked the question about capital funding. The funding that has just become available is in-year funding, where there have been underspends across the Government. The Cabinet had a discussion about where that could be allocated, and I'm really pleased that the Cabinet agreed with my strong representation that HE was the area where that should be allocated. As a result of how that money is allocated, it is only available through capital spend, and that's the reason that that has come out in the way that it has. But I've got no doubt about it that relieving the pressure on the capital overheads for universities has knock-on effects across the institution and, I hope, can affect the decisions that are taken so that job losses are a last resort, as I've said several times over the last week. That is what we want to see.

I thank the Minister. The second topical question is from Heledd Fychan.

For the first time ever, the Welsh Government is providing a partner support fund for the Euros. The £1 million fund is a significant opportunity for the Welsh Government support project and activities that celebrate and create a legacy for the Wales women's historic achievement at the UEFA women's Euros in 2025, in July.

Thank you for that response. Of course, whilst I welcome the investment from the Welsh Government, I don't accept that nearly half the funding allocated for the World Cup in Qatar is acceptable, because, after all, it's the first time ever in the history of women's football here in Wales that the team has qualified for any major tournament, and it's a huge opportunity not only to promote Wales internationally, but promote participation in sport here in Wales, especially amongst women and girls, as part of a preventative health strategy. Further, I am concerned that the lessons learnt from the 2022 world cup have not been implemented and that this, once again, feels like a reactive approach rather than forming part of a wider strategy that's ready to go when our national teams, in all sports, qualify for major tournaments, or when major tournaments are held here in Wales.

Recommendations 2, 4 and 6 of the evaluation report into the world cup talked about the need to work proactively to identify national and international opportunities, maintain strategic level partnerships, and use existing resources to ensure a flexible team can respond to future events to maximise the opportunities for sport and cultural diplomacy. The fact that the first steering group meeting didn't take place until last week, and the fact that the fund was only announced yesterday, 11 weeks after the women's team qualified on 4 December, seems to indicate that precious time has been lost. Will the Welsh Government, therefore, commit to publishing in advance of the tournament the measures and targets underpinning this investment, and further commit to updating the Senedd on how previous recommendations are being incorporated into wider Government strategy?

I'm very grateful for the question. I think that one thing that we will all agree on is how historic this moment is and our desire, I think, across the Chamber to ensure that we promote Wales and increase participation as a result of the investment that we are intending on making. I will say that the time taken between the accession, if you like, to the tournament and today and the first meeting of the group hasn't been wasted—it's been used in terms of engaging with our partners to explore what the core objective should be for this particular fund and for our approach to the tournament more widely.

So, the core objectives that have been developed have been agreed now with partners and they are really about exactly what Heledd Fychan was talking about in terms of promoting Wales to that global audience and projecting our values as well, and particularly so around equality and inclusion. And another one of those core objectives is to promote girls' and women's sport and encourage increased participation, securing a legacy from the competition.

I'm really pleased to say that expressions of interest for the £1 million fund will open on Friday, and I also want to reassure colleagues, particularly, I think, in relation to the recommendations to which Heledd Fychan was referring, that we will be looking to make sure that we do have those meaningful key performance indicators and targets in relation to what success should look like as a result of this particular funding, again, learning from the experience of the past as well.

And I also do want to take the opportunity to say that the funding that we're providing through the £1 million partner support fund is only part of our package and part of the work that we'll be doing. Another really important part will be the marketing campaign, and that's going to focus on core target international markets across brand, business and tourism as well as a really strong in-Wales campaign presence. And it will also deliver activities through work with our greatest advocates, of course, those being the fans and the voices from Wales as well as with partners and our Euro 2025 ambassadors. So, there is significant work taking place to ensure that we maximise the benefits for Wales in terms of promoting Wales abroad, but also those important points about participation, particularly for women and girls.

I can only echo the sentiments of the Member for South Wales Central in those remarks. The demand for women's football is going up, but the Welsh Government funding is going down, and we've got to break down those barriers for women and girls to take an interest in football. So, how is the Welsh Government ensuring that sufficient resources are allocated to this problem and those programmes to engage more with women and girls to ensure that there are no barriers to entry and to ensure parity of esteem across the football sector?

I'm really grateful for that question. As I mentioned in response to the first question, this is the first time that we have ever put in place a package of funding of this sort for a Euros tournament, so I think that really signifies the keenness that we have to maximise the potential of this tournament, particularly for women and girls. But, of course, it's not just football that we're excited about this year, because we are recognising this year, really, as being a year of women's sport in Wales, and we're really looking forward to several major events that women from Wales will be taking part in this summer, or that will be hosted here in Wales. So, one really good example is the AIG Women's Open in Porthcawl. That, I think, is going to be a huge opportunity for us to showcase Wales in the world. As part of that, of course, we've been able to provide, through Sport Wales, a capital budget for a £1 million legacy programme for the AIG Women's Open in Porthcawl, and the purpose of that legacy fund is to attract and retain women and girls in the sport by creating inclusive, family-friendly women's facilities in those clubs. So, again, I think that’s another example of how we're trying to maximise these fantastic opportunities and ensure that they do have a strong legacy, and it would be remiss of me also not to mention the Women’s Rugby World Cup 2025, which will be taking place in England.

I thank the Cabinet Secretary.

Item 4 is the 90-second statements, and the first statement will be from Julie Morgan.

Diolch. Next week, during the Senedd's recess, it is Eating Disorders Awareness Week. Every year, during Eating Disorders Awareness Week, we raise awareness of these complex mental health conditions, highlighting a specific topic. This year, we're talking about how eating disorders can affect anyone. You probably know someone living with an eating disorder, but you may not realise it. Right now, at least 1.25 million people in the UK and more than 60,000 people in Wales are living with an eating disorder. That's more than one in 50 people, but the real number could be even higher.

Eating disorders like avoidant/restrictive food intake disorder, anorexia, bulimia, binge-eating disorder and other specified feeding or eating disorders are complex mental health conditions that are often misunderstood, mislabelled or undiagnosed. Eating disorders don’t just affect the person with the condition; friends and families often become carers, feeling helpless and heartbroken as they watch their loved one struggle. Eating disorders are one of the biggest mental health challenges of our time and they can affect anyone at any time. Therefore, we are raising awareness that eating disorders can affect anyone and that it’s not always who you expect. Diolch.

This year, the Caerphilly Workmen’s Hall celebrates its centenary, 100 years since it first opened its doors. Earlier this month, many of us attended a gala in the hall to mark that milestone. We were treated to music from BTM Brass Band, Caerphilly Male Voice Choir, talented soloists, and speeches from volunteers and mayors. What was most thrilling was to be present in the hall exactly 100 years since its opening night.

Like so many workmen’s halls and miners’ halls across the Valleys, Caerphilly Workmen’s Hall was founded by local workers who donated some of their wages every week to fund the building being built. It opened on 7 February 1925, a proud product of the welfare movement and a reminder today to all of us in the Valleys of the magnitude of the dreams those miners dreamt for us. By now, the hall is run by volunteers, and efforts are under way to transform the space into an arts centre. It’s certainly a hall that has housed many memories in its 100 years, and the thoughts of the community will be turning to the next stage in its history.

So, thank you to all of the volunteers, the volunteers of today and their predecessors, and we look forward to the next 100 years.

Thank you.

Item 5 has been postponed until 12 March.

Therefore, we move on to item 6, which is the Welsh Conservatives' debate on the 'Ending corridor care in Wales' report. I call on James Evans to move the motion.

Diolch, Deputy Presiding Officer, and I move the motion, tabled in the name of my colleague Paul Davies.

Today, we’re debating an issue that should never have become the norm in Welsh hospitals: corridor care. We’ve all seen the harrowing reports, we’ve all read the shocking testimonies and, more importantly, we all know that this is a crisis that can no longer be ignored. A crisis where patients—mothers, fathers, grandparents—are left waiting in chairs for hours and sometimes days waiting for a bed. A crisis where ambulance crews spend hours parked outside hospitals because there simply isn’t the space inside, and when they get inside they’re left waiting in corridors. A crisis where doctors and nurses, despite their dedication and tireless efforts, are being pushed beyond breaking point, describing their workplaces as war zones with patients placed everywhere. This is a national disgrace.

And let me be absolutely clear, this is not the fault of our heroic NHS staff, who do a phenomenal job under extreme circumstances. They are the ones holding this broken system together. This is a problem of a failure of political leadership, a failure of planning, and a failure to invest in where it matters most. We can fix the crisis in corridor care, but it requires real leadership, real investment and a real plan, working with the sector to develop the plans needed for change.

The Royal College of Nursing has provided a clear, practical road map to tackle corridor care, and I commend them for their work in this area. Their report is not about quick fixes or shifting blame; it’s about delivering real change, change that will improve patient care and support our NHS workforce as we transition to an NHS in the future that is fit for purpose.

The first step is ensuring dignity in care. Corridor care should never have been allowed to happen, and we must never, ever tolerate it. And this means making it a never event—something so unacceptable that it must never happen. It means ensuring no patient is left in a chair for 24 hours, left without proper monitoring, without access to essential equipment, and left without even basic dignity. It means recognising that this is not just about accepting that this is the new normal, and this is what we have to accept. This is about patient safety, because nurses and doctors have told us that patients deteriorate in corridors and we must act. Patients struggle without oxygen, without privacy. Some have even died while waiting for care. This is unacceptable.

If we’re serious about ending corridor care, we must also free up hospital capacity. We must pause the reduction in hospital beds, and conduct a national review of NHS capacity. Now, let me be crystal clear. This is not about blithely increasing bed numbers, or making unrealistic promises to the electorate. That would be irresponsible, and not something that a Government in waiting—which we are—would do. It’s about ensuring we have enough beds in the right places to meet demand. But we also need to speed up hospital discharge. Right now, many beds are occupied by people and patients who no longer need hospital care but have nowhere else to go. Why? Because social care is underfunded, understaffed and unable to take patients when they’re ready to leave. The result: patients stuck in hospital beds when they could have been better cared for elsewhere. So, we need to invest in social care, not just for their dignity, but to fix the entire system. And we need a national conversation about how we do this, as the social care system in its current form doesn’t work and it’s unfair to those individuals who’ve paid into the system their whole lives, with the threat of losing everything to access social care.

But none of these real reforms that are needed to fix the system will work unless we support our NHS workforce. Our healthcare workers are the backbone of our NHS, yet, too often, they’re being overworked, undervalued and forced to work in unsafe conditions. The Royal College of Nursing report makes it clear that we need more senior clinical decision makers on the weekends, so that patients can be discharged faster, reducing delays, and we also need more district nurses and community care teams, so that patients can be treated at home instead of taking up hospital beds unnecessarily. And we also need to look at our cottage hospital estate across Wales, because a lot of those patients need step-down care. We’ve seen far too many cottage hospitals close under this Welsh Labour Government. That isn’t good enough, and we need to look at that again.

And we need to foster a culture where NHS staff feel safe to raise concerns, without fear of repercussions. Because, when our nurses and doctors speak out, we must listen. And we must also demand smarter planning and investment. There is no excuse for bureaucratic barriers that prevent patients from getting care when they need it. The NHS in Wales must be able to safely divert patients to neighbouring services when necessary. That will help ease and stop corridor care. And we must also ensure that our NHS is properly resourced to deliver the six goals for urgent and emergency care, so that fewer patients end up in corridors in the first place.

We can fix this. But it will take leadership, investment and an unshakeable commitment to patient safety. And let me also be very clear: I don’t believe this is a funding issue. Over half of the Welsh Government budget is spent on health. Wales is part of the sixth largest economy in the world. There is money in the system, but it’s not being spent in the areas where it matters. The Labour Government here has chosen to waste millions of pounds on projects that aren’t the priorities of the Welsh people, and they’ve not monitored increased funding amounts to the NHS properly. And as a result of mismanagement and wrong priorities, what does this mean? Patients waiting for days in hospital corridors, ambulance crews stuck outside our hospitals, and nurses and clinicians pushed beyond breaking point.

And I say to the people of Wales this: you should not accept corridor care as normal. It’s not right. It’s not normal. It’s not unavoidable. And it doesn’t have to be this way. This is a political choice and it’s about political priorities. And, after 25 years of Labour control, corridor care is the reality of their record in office. But we can make a difference. We can make different choices. It’s time to fix Wales. It’s time to fix the NHS. It’s time to end corridor care. That’s what we’ll be fighting for. We won’t tinker around the edges, like this Government has done. We will take the big decisions necessary to fix our NHS, because no patient should ever have to be treated in a corridor again. And I will tell you: under a Welsh Conservative Government, that will never, ever happen.

I have selected the amendment to the motion, and I call on the Cabinet Secretary for Health and Social Care to move formally amendment 1, tabled in the name of Jane Hutt. 

Formally. 

Every week sees the publication of a new report by experts in different policy areas, and without exception, every time, there is criticism made and serious concern expressed about failings in the health service, be it in dentistry, cancer, ophthalmology, waiting lists, the number of doctors, or, in this case, hospital care. And every time these matters are raised here on the floor of the Siambr,  be it in a debate, in a topical question or questions to the Government, the response is the same: listing how much money is being invested in the system, listing questionable statistics and creating the impression that there is nothing wrong and all is well. But the truth is that there are many things wrong, and, no, all is not well.

And the RCN report paints a very bleak picture, a picture of a health service that puts patients and staff at risk. Indeed, the report reinforces what we have heard, with heart-rending examples of patients dying in their chairs in a hospital corridor while waiting for treatment. It's a totally undignified and disrespectful way of treating our loved ones, and the Government must ensure that this practice comes to an end. And what is worse is that this is all so predictable. For example, the condition of the hospital estate is directly linked with safe treatment conditions. But, since the last election, the cost of bringing the estate up to a relatively acceptable state has ballooned over 470 per cent to almost £800 million. The number of patients stuck in our hospitals remains stubbornly high, due to the Government’s failure to invest in our care sector, as well as the limited number of beds in our hospitals, thereby placing unbearable pressures on our regional hospitals. 

But perhaps most important of all is the way that the workforce is treated. Our nurses in Wales continue to battle for fair pay and better terms and conditions, while the promises to review their contracts remain unfulfilled, without meaningful action. And if the nursing school at Cardiff University closes, then this precarious situation will become even worse. But the situation isn’t hopeless, and there are solutions.

Therefore, in a constructive spirit, I encourage the Government to consider the following suggestions, as well as accepting and implementing the recommendations made in the RCN report in full. First of all, we must engender a culture of accepting constructive criticism, without hiding behind dubious statistics and denying responsibility. Secondly, a long-term estate development plan is needed to reverse the severe deterioration in the NHS estate and ensure hospitals that are fit for purpose. 

Thirdly, I urge the Government, once again, to introduce legislation to place regional partnership boards on a statutory footing, in accordance with Plaid Cymru’s plan to reform the health system’s governance structure. Time after time, we have heard from people within the sector that the RPBs are not succeeding in practical terms to achieve the objective of improving collaboration between health boards and local authorities on matters such as care outside of the hospital, primarily due to a lack of clarity regarding their role. And while the Cabinet Secretary has mentioned previously that he can promote collaboration without the need for legislation, all of the evidence suggests that this is not working. 

Fourth, we must see action being taken on the plans to unite the health and care services, thereby bridging the gap between the two services, to ensure that patients can be discharged without delay.

Fifth, we must give serious consideration to how the current data landscape can undermine the workforce’s ability to respond proactively to pressures in terms of care bed capacity. The fact that the RCN has had to submit FOI requests to gain access to such basic information as the size of the nursing workforce in Wales is totally unacceptable, and the same complaint can be made about lack of data across the health and care sectors. A national audit of data sources must be undertaken to gain a clear picture of the gaps, alongside a commitment to introducing mandatory standards for the availability, transparency and dependability of public information on the health system.

And finally, the Cabinet Secretary must make a clear statement that corridor care is not acceptable, and that one of his targets before the end of this Senedd term is to ensure that this practice is brought to an end. These fundamental steps must be taken in order to identify the next steps and build anew, and in taking these fundamental steps the Government will at least be accepting the need to do things differently, thereby demonstrating that they understand the gravity of the situation.

I thank James for bringing forward this important and timely debate. It is unacceptable that corridor care is happening at all, let alone on such a regular basis that it has forced the RCN to call it out. We have all been inundated with e-mails from concerned constituents outlining the terrible examples of corridor care, although I am reluctant to call it care at all.

Emergency departments across my region are constantly inundated with patients and without the capacity to observe and treat patients presenting to our emergency departments. Staff are forced to make the horrible choice between unsafe treatment or not offering treatment at all. I think it is important that we listen to the experiences of the patients and staff at our emergency departments, because health board leaders repeatedly tell us—I'm sure the Deputy Presiding Officer knows that—that corridor care is not happening. One constituent told me that their 73-year-old mother spent Christmas Eve, Christmas Day and Boxing Day on a chair, being treated from the waiting room and side room of Morriston Hospital. They explained that their father was waiting with her the entire time, and that neither were able to sleep, nor eat, as there was no food available. The patient herself was not offered food until they informed staff that she was diabetic.

Nobody should be forced to endure this lack of care, particularly not an elderly diabetic. Of course, healthcare leaders will blame winter pressures or the holiday period, or some other external factor, but this is nothing new. We see the same strains on the services every winter. It is down to a lack of leadership, a total and abject failure to plan for demand, and no coherent workforce planning taking place over the past quarter of a century. One nurse working in an emergency department in my region spoke of the despondency of staff working on the front lines. Here is the situation in their words: 'I work many shifts where nurses are completely overwhelmed because they can't deliver the safe care that they want to. There have been emergency situations with no equipment or even adequate access to patients.' Staff within emergency departments are working far above the staffing guidelines that the Royal College of Emergency Medicine suggests. Staff are completely burnt out; they dread coming into work and many feel extremely anxious before their shifts. Many staff cry regularly on shift and are actually looking at leaving the NHS and working for private companies or leaving the profession. If nurses are telling us the situation is dire, we should listen and act. We are not only letting down patients, it is a dereliction of our duty to our NHS staff. Without their Herculean efforts, we would not have a health service.

When I started my residency at the NHS in Liverpool, every emergency department had observation wards and treatment wards. Patients were never treated in the waiting room or in the corridor, and never in a disabled toilet. We have legislation that dictates safe nursing levels, but nothing to ensure—. This is important, Cabinet Secretary. We have legislation that dictates safe nursing levels, but nothing to ensure that we have a safe number of clinicians operating our emergency departments. As a result, we're forcing nursing staff to deal with the delays in treatment, forcing patients to wait in pain and discomfort, as well as restricting patient flow, which leads to ambulance care and corridor care.

Attempting care in corridors is completely unacceptable, and we must adopt the RCN's recommendations. I urge Members to reject the Welsh Government's buck-passing amendment and to support front-line staff by backing our motion. Diolch yn fawr.

I want to begin by thanking the Royal College of Nursing for their powerful, but concerning report. It's become ever more clear, hasn't it, that the Welsh Government has completely lost control of the state of patient care in our hospitals. The chronic underfunding of our social care sector, combined with a reduction in bed space and short staffing levels and poor leadership, have led to this crisis in corridor care, a crisis that has developed following 26 years of poor oversight and management by successive Labour Governments.

Over recent years, our local authorities in Wales have faced a multimillion-pound deficit on their social care needs, and whilst more money may be found for the coming year, the historic lack of forward planning and a lack of holistic oversight of the health system has led to the systemic failure we now see.

Would you take an intervention?

Yes, I certainly would.

Well, 14 years of austerity has impacted on social health care. And the one year that councils asked for extra funding, following those years of cuts, and it was shared between social healthcare and the NHS, the Conservatives attacked Welsh Government for that. So, don't you believe that—? You just said there should be a holistic view, so, would you not accept that we need to be looking at social healthcare and the NHS together?

I've said many times in this Chamber that we should be taking a holistic approach to healthcare. That means the national health service and social care. Last year, we saw some £825 million going to the health service and a minimal amount going to social care. And if you don't address the social care, you don't unblock the system. [Interruption.] No, it's right. There was £450 million that went into health in the last budget, and there was some previously in the autumn before, yet a minimal amount went into social care in that same year, which did not address it.

Now, there's some additional money going into social care this year, but it still will not unblock that blockage that we have in this whole health system. So, clearly, 26 years of Labour Government have let the system down. It's nothing to do with 14 years of Conservative control. [Interruption.]

There are no two-way conversations going on. The Member now to continue his contribution.

Thank you. We clearly have systemic failure. That is told to us by clinicians, by nurses, and other healthcare professionals. These failures have driven the needs of the report, such as today's Royal College of Nursing report, or last week's Llais findings, or the regular health inspectorate reports we see highlighting shortcomings in our health boards. And it's not just patients who are being let down, as we've heard. Our NHS staff are being let down also. They didn't join the profession to have to deny patients the care they desperately need. We read that even when issues are raised by nurses with management through the dedicated system, no or little action is taken. Worse still, one staff member suggested they would be victimised if they implied the system wasn't performing, and this just is not acceptable in any way.

We hear that bed capacity is reducing. Indeed, in my own health board, I know that trauma beds have been significantly reduced since the opening of the Grange hospital. I was told there were circa 80 plus trauma beds prior to the Grange opening, and now there are somewhere around 40. As a result, sadly, not a week goes by without us hearing harrowing stories of constituents languishing in simply unacceptable conditions while waiting for treatment. I recall myself, last year, receiving a phone call from a constituent in their hospital room. They were being treated for sepsis, but had been asked twice if they would leave their room for the corridor to enable somebody else to have their bed. My strong advice was not to agree, as they were too poorly. I had to intervene at the highest level to prevent this. How many times does that sort of thing happen? I fear too often.

The quotes from the health boards, highlighted in the royal college's report, truly make for some harrowing reading. One patient at Aneurin Bevan University Health Board is quoted as saying,

'My daughter, who is pregnant, had hyperemesis and was told to go to hospital. She was vomiting in a corridor,'

and there was no heating there either.

'She had to stay on a trolley for a day and a half before being moved to a ward. Then they moved her to a doctor’s office, where there were no buzzers that she could use if she needed help. She was then moved back to the corridor.'

This, frankly, is unacceptable in any country in the twenty-first century, let alone one of the largest economies—

Can I just say—?

Yes.

As a clinician—

You're out of time. Altaf, he's already out of time. I'm giving him time for the previous intervention.

But it is important to know that, as a clinician—

And you have contributed to the debate already.

[Inaudible.]—anybody, it was me as a clinician.

I will be finished very shortly. The situation in Wales can best be summed up by the RCN report, where it states that

'Corridor care is the obvious and avoidable failure of political will to reform the NHS and social care, and invest in its workforce under recent governments.'

It is clear, then, that the Government needs to listen to the calls of the RCN and implement its eight recommendations in full, ensuring that, in the future, our children will not have to deal with the same hospital conditions as people are having to today.

Russell George. No? Excuse me. I apologise, Janet, but we have Russell's name down.

So, I stand here today to once again highlight the appalling state of treatment and care in Welsh hospitals, a crisis that we on these benches, sadly, raise far too often. After waiting hours for an ambulance, many are then left for an inordinate number of hours in those ambulances outside our hospitals. When fortunate enough to be transferred into the hospital system, they are still stuck on chairs or trolley beds for a huge number of hours. I have known of some constituents, 48 hours, whereby they've been in a chair and suffering pressure sores from being in said chair.

The Royal College of Nursing's recent report, 'Ending corridor care in Wales' exposes a stark reality. Can I thank the Royal College of Nursing for all the work that they do, all their nurses and all our front-line staff working in hospitals? This criticism isn't aimed at you, it is aimed at this Welsh Labour Government. And, Carolyn, I must just say that of the 14 years of austerity that you mention, we mention 26 years of failings by this Welsh Labour Government, of which 12 years were under a Labour Government in Westminster.

The RCN report paints a stark picture of the reality in our hospitals, a reality the Welsh Government just seems to dismiss. Nursing staff describe patients treated in chairs for over 24 hours—48 hours I've witnessed—forced into hallways or in front of fire exits due to a lack of available beds. I know of one constituent only recently—. I saw them being treated in a cupboard.

They report feeling demoralised, unable to provide the standard of care that they entered the profession to deliver. One nurse has summed it up for me well: how is it fair to tell someone that they are dying in a corridor? Another spoke of their mental health under the immense pressure, saying, 'I struggle to sleep at night before and after my next shift.' How can we rationalise this crisis? I sat through the Social Services and Well-being (Wales) Act 2014; we're no further forward now than we were when that legislation was going through.

The latest data shows that, in December alone, more than 6,500 ambulances spent at least an hour outside a Welsh A&E, waiting to offload patients. In north Wales, Betsi Cadwaladr University Health Board has the worst performance with regard to four-hour, eight-hour and 12-hour waiting times. One patient described the experience as, 'Traumatic. Like being treated in a war zone.' It's 2025, for goodness' sake.

Despite the alarming realities, the Cabinet Secretary for finance has argued that Wales is over-hospitalised—a shocking statement—advocating for fewer beds and fewer hospitals. It's a stance at odds with expert opinion and front-line experience. Utter madness. Currently, we have demoralised nursing staff caring for as many as 40 patients in a corridor, unable to access oxygen, cardiac monitors, suction and other lifesaving equipment. They report female patients miscarrying in corridors, while others said that they cannot provide adequate or timely cardiopulmonary resuscitation to patients having heart attacks. More than nine in 10 nurses surveyed said that patient safety is being consistently compromised. If I had a workforce, Cabinet Secretary, I would be absolutely mortified to learn that nine out of 10 said that their patients' safety is being consistently compromised.

The core issue, of course, is a lack of patient flow through the healthcare system; patients needing to be discharged remaining in hospital due to inadequate social care provision. The Welsh Local Government Association warned last year that social care funding is unsustainable, yet the necessary investment, however much you claim to have raised the amount you're giving, is not enough. The result is hospital beds occupied by patients who do not need them, leading to overcrowded emergency departments, and ultimately, corridor, cupboard—call it what you like—care. What makes this even worse is that nursing home owners in Aberconwy now are telling me that there are currently 50 vacant general nursing beds in Conwy county in the social care sector. They've got these voids whilst you've got people in beds in hospitals, and these patients want to get home or to their nursing home.

The RCN has called for urgent reforms, including pausing bed reductions, investing in social care, increasing the number of nurses, and ensuring that patients are treated in appropriate environments. We, the Welsh Conservatives, are asking for the very same thing. The Welsh Government must not let levels of nursing fall, they must not let Wales's ability to train new nurses be compromised. We must not let Cardiff University's school of nursing close—

Janet, will you conclude there, please?

—and I implore the Welsh Government to step in and use its power. Corridor care is not just an inconvenience, it's a danger to patient safety. This is still happening and it's happening under your watch, Cabinet Secretary. Please, for the sake of all those patients, put some immediate steps in place to end corridor care, or move over and let the Welsh Conservatives fix the NHS in Wales.

Thank you, Janet.

I call on the Cabinet Secretary for Health and Social Care, Jeremy Miles.

Thank you, Dirprwy Lywydd. I would like to start by acknowledging the importance of this issue, and thanking all the nurses for their comments on this important topic.

Everyone should receive care in an appropriate clinical location, where their safety, dignity and privacy are maintained. As the Welsh Government amendment states, I don't believe that it is acceptable to provide care or treatment in areas that are not clinical settings, or areas that are inappropriate. But this is happening because the health service here and across the UK is under huge pressure. Also, the broader health and care system isn't working smoothly enough at the moment, with high levels of delays in releasing patients, and this then has an impact on hospitals and communities. Unfortunately, on occasion this lack of flow can mean that people do wait for long periods for a hospital bed in accident and emergency departments, medical assessment units or other parts of the hospital.

In these challenging times, the commitment of our healthcare workers is more important than ever. That is why we want to nurture a culture in the health service that helps nursing staff to feel safe to raise concerns about patient safety without fear. This commitment is part of the duty of honesty and the health service framework for raising one's voice without fear, ensuring that concerns are heard and are given due attention, and that steps are taken as a result.

Dirprwy Lywydd, addressing issues of flow requires strategic system-wide solutions. We are focused on tackling these challenges, not just in hospitals, but by strengthening care throughout the health and care system. There is a huge amount of work going on in this space. Our six goals for urgent and emergency care programme is focused exactly on providing the right care in the right place first time. It includes investments in enhanced community care services, virtual wards, urgent community response and integrated care pathways to reduce hospital admissions and improve patient flow.

The NHS has introduced a new operational escalation policy that supports health boards and the ambulance service to manage pressures through a system-wide response designed to minimise emergency department overcrowding. Daily system calls and reviews of ward establishments, including surge capacities, are now in place between the NHS and the Welsh Government to support timely dignified care in appropriate settings. Our district and community nursing teams play a vital role in delivering high-quality care closer to home, preventing unnecessary hospital admissions and supporting timely discharges. We are committed to expanding and investing in this part of the nursing workforce to meet the needs of our population and to improve outcomes.

Dirprwy Lywydd, over the winter we have challenged both health boards and local authorities to work together to focus on 10 evidence-based actions to help prevent older and frail adults from being admitted to hospital unnecessarily, and to speed up discharge planning to reduce the number of delayed discharges. I have been encouraged by the systems now in place and the progress that has been made over the course of that 50-day period. It resulted in reductions in the number of care home residents transported to emergency departments—[Interruption.]—reductions in the admission of older people—

Cabinet Secretary, will you take an intervention?

—and reductions in the number of pathways of care delays compared to the same period last year. Yes.

Thank you for taking the intervention, Cabinet Secretary. I just wanted to understand from you in your contribution today—can you just confirm that you are in agreement or disagreement with the recommendations made in the RCN's report?

Well, I'm trying to give an account in my speech today of the work already under way that reflects many of the recommendations in the report, and many of the recommendations are things that are already under way, and I accept the argument made that more needs to be done. Having read the report, nobody can fail to be struck by the responses that nurses are giving on the front line. What I am seeking to do in this speech is to set out the work already under way to address a number of the priorities that the RCN has set out.

We are reviewing data from this past winter, Dirprwy Lywydd, considering the lessons learned and developing refreshed actions to continue this focus. This will include measurable implementation plans, covering areas like prevention, urgent primary and community care, ambulance handovers and a renewed drive for greater productivity in discharge practices and planning by health boards and local authorities. I will be providing more information to the Senedd on these plans in March and April.

Dirprwy Lywydd, we all give of our best when we feel valued, fairly treated and able to be ourselves at work. A safe, supported and empowered workforce is the foundation of a strong NHS, and we will continue to work together to build a healthcare system that helps staff give of their best to deliver the highest standards of patient care.

There are challenges in the system today and the report that we are debating today outlines very clearly several of those challenges. We are working to resolve them. We will go further to support more people actually to remain in the community, safe, cared for, and to be able to get the care they need outside a hospital setting wherever possible.

I call on Russell George to reply to the debate. 

Diolch, Deputy Presiding Officer. There is a crisis happening in our hospitals across Wales because people are being treated in unsafe, undignified and unacceptable environments. We're not talking about one patient, we're talking about a cohort of patients sitting in chairs for hours on end and being moved into wards in front of fire escapes, or having to stay on a trolley in a corridor for far too long. We believe that crisis in care of such a standard is allowing a situation where it is more likely that patients will die as a result of it. They're not the words of anyone that's spoken in this debate today, or they're not my words—they're the words of Helen Whyley from the Royal College of Nursing.

But much of what was said in there was echoed in James Evans's opening comments in his contribution today, and if I could condense, perhaps, what James said in his opening remarks, in terms of why corridor care is happening, we have insufficient community nurses, we have insufficient nursing capacity in our care homes and we have insufficient care home professionals. And then, of course, corridor care issues are exacerbated by ambulances queuing outside hospitals due to patients awaiting admission, nursing vacancies in hospitals reducing capacity, falling numbers in hospital beds, inability to direct patients elsewhere due to other alternatives, inability to discharge patients due to a lack of nursing in the community, and a poor understanding from management of the actual risk to patients from corridor care. Many of those points as well were picked up by Mabon ap Gwynfor in his contribution.

Altaf Hussain spoke about the significant pressures that staff are under, which also has to be appreciated here, and we have to recognise the huge efforts of staff working within our NHS. But, of course, Altaf also talked about legislation that already exists to ensure that we have correct staff nursing levels, but nothing to ensure that we have the safe number of clinicians, which is something perhaps the Cabinet Secretary can reflect on.

Both Peter Fox and Janet Finch-Saunders spoke about the lack of beds in Wales, and the RCN, of course, have called for a pause in the reduction of hospital beds, which is in contrast to the recent comments, of course, of the Cabinet Secretary for Finance and Welsh Language and the First Minister. 

I listened very carefully to the comments from the Cabinet Secretary for health today. I struggle to understand why he would object to our motion today and why the Government deleted our motion, because there are three points to our motion today. The first notes the 'Ending corridor care in Wales' report published by the RCN. There's nothing, surely, to object to noting that. The second point' 

'Regrets that people in Welsh hospitals are being treated in unsafe, undignified and unacceptable environments',

which the Cabinet Secretary himself acknowledged. And thirdly it

'Calls on the Welsh Government to enact the report's eight recommendations in full.'

Well, when I intervened on the Cabinet Secretary, he confirmed himself that, in his view, those are being carried out as well as the other areas that the Government are conducting. So, if that were to be the case, why could the Government not have accepted our motion today? If it wanted to add additions to our motion as well to make steps forward, in his view, in this area, then that would have been welcome, but it's disappointing that the Government couldn't simply support our motion today. 

I do thank Members across the Chamber for their contribution and I do hope that Members across the Chamber will support our motion today unamended. Diolch yn fawr. 

The proposal is to agree the motion without amendment. Does any Member object? [Objection.] There is objection, therefore I defer voting under this item until voting time. 

Item 7 is next, the Plaid Cymru debate on Gaza. I call on Rhun ap Iorwerth to move the motion. 

Thank you, Dirprwy Lywydd. Four hundred and sixty-nine days have passed since this Senedd voted to add our voice to the international pressure on ensuring a ceasefire in Gaza, for the release of hostages immediately, and to declare our support for the communities of Israelis and Palestinians in Wales, Jewish and Muslim communities impacted by the conflict. 

In those 469 days, Israeli forces have killed tens of thousands of innocent citizens in Gaza, something that, according to Amnesty International, is akin to genocide. Tens of thousands more have been injured and humanitarian organisations, along with the United Nations, are warning that the whole population is facing famine.

That is why Plaid Cymru has brought this motion before the Senedd today, because the humanitarian crisis in Gaza deserves not only our attention, but demands an urgent international effort to secure peace.

The scale of destruction in Gaza is beyond comprehension. Entire communities razed to the ground, erased from the map. Families wiped out. Parents clutching their starving children in makeshift hospitals with no medicine. Wales cannot and must not remain silent in the face of such profound injustice. We have a duty to speak out, to take action and to put all the pressure we can on those who have direct power to intervene to do so.

On 7 October the year before last, Hamas carried out an appalling attack on Israeli civilians, an attack of unimaginable cruelty. And those responsible must be held accountable. The International Criminal Court's chief prosecutor filed arrest warrants against Hamas leaders—the actions of 7 October being among the evidence that led to those charges of war crimes. But what has happened, what has followed the relentless bombardment, the deliberate targeting of civilians and the total destruction of Gaza's infrastructure, has been neither an act of self-defence nor proportional. Israel's actions are in clear violation of international law. The deliberate targeting of civilian infrastructure, the collective punishment of an entire population and the forced starvation of children are war crimes under the Geneva conventions. The International Court of Justice has already ruled that Israel's actions in Gaza could amount to genocide, and yet, despite this overwhelming evidence, the international community has failed to act decisively enough.

The UK Government has refused to suspend arms exports to Israel. It has chosen to be complicit. And we say here in the Senedd today that this is not acceptable. The UK Government must immediately suspend all arms sales to Israel in line with international law, just as sanctions rightly exist to stop the arming of Hamas. If we claim to uphold a rules-based international order, then that order must apply equally to all. That is why this motion also calls on the UK Government to support the International Criminal Court, the ICC, in its investigations, and to reject any attempts to obstruct its work. Yet instead of defending international justice, the UK Government has once again been on the wrong side of history, failing to support the ICC as it should.

And now we see a new and dangerous escalation, an outright attack on international justice itself. The President of the United States, Donald Trump, has made it clear that he will sanction the ICC if it dares to investigate Israeli war crimes. This is a direct assault on the rule of law. An attempt to undermine the very institutions that exist to hold war criminals accountable and to uphold international peace. That is why the Senedd must send a clear message today: justice is not optional, in our view, it can't be selective. The ICC must be allowed to do its work and any attempts to intimidate or obstruct it must be condemned outright.

And there's an even more dangerous dimension, of course, to Donald Trump's intervention: his call for the forced displacement of Gaza's entire population. He has proposed that once the fighting stops, Gaza should be owned by the United States, with its 2.3 million residents forcibly relocated to Jordan, to Egypt, and the land redeveloped into a luxury destination—the 'riviera of the middle east', as it was dubbed. He speaks of resettling people as if they're not human beings, as if they have no right to their own land, their own history, their own future. And this is not just deeply offensive, of course, it is a call that equates, does it not, to ethnic cleansing? The forcible removal of a civilian population is a direct violation of the fourth Geneva convention, and would constitute a war crime. It would amount to a second Nakba, mirroring the ethnic cleansing that saw nearly 1 million Palestinians expelled from their homes in 1948.

Palestinians don't want to leave their land, their home. The people of Gaza aren't seeking relocation; they're seeking freedom. The UK Government must condemn these proposals unequivocally, and anything less would be a moral and political failure. We in the Senedd must make our position absolutely clear, that we believe Palestinians have the right to remain on their land. Gaza is not for sale. If this crisis has shown us anything, it is that people everywhere, wherever they are, including us, yes, here in Wales, have a duty to speak up and not just wait for others to act.

Before I conclude, Dirprwy Lywydd, I want to return to the issue of public sector procurement and investment, and the call by Plaid Cymru to ensure that there is no connection between the public sector and companies that contravene human rights. Ethical procurement is not just a slogan; it's a means of ensuring that Welsh public funds don't actually fund war crimes. Are public sector pension funds investing in businesses that supply arms to Israel? Is there a link between supply chains in Wales and businesses that profit from this destruction? We have to ask these questions, and the UK Government has to use its influence in an ethical way, and a way that promotes peace. No more arms exports; no more hiding behind the politicking; and no more remaining silent.

So, as thousands in Gaza continue to witness death and destruction, our message is this: Wales stands with you. Wales stands for justice. Wales stands for an end to suffering. And I, again, remind you that we stand with Israeli and Palestinian communities, Jewish and Muslim communities, here in Wales. Llywydd, I urge Members across this Chamber to support the Plaid Cymru motion so that we can share this message with the world and stand with our international partners. [Applause.]

I have selected the four amendments to the motion. If amendment 1 is agreed, amendments 2, 3 and 4 will be deselected. I call on Paul Davies now to move amendment 1, tabled in Paul Davies's own name.

Diolch, Llywydd. I'm pleased to move the amendment tabled in my name. I'm sure we all stand united in condemning the appalling events of 7 October 2023, where we horrifically saw around 1,200 people killed, and more than 250 hostages taken by Hamas terrorists. That attack was followed by an Israeli military operation in Gaza, which, in turn, has resulted in the deaths of tens of thousands of Palestinians, many innocent civilians. The loss of life is heartbreaking, and we have all heard stories of families on both sides of the conflict, about how their lives have been ripped apart by this conflict. That is why action is needed to make this ceasefire a permanent one.

Now, I'm sure we all recognise that the current situation is fragile, and every effort needs to be made to ensure all remaining hostages are freed. Of course, some of the hostages have now been returned to their loved ones, and I'm sure that all Members were moved, as I was, by the image of the British hostage, Emily Damari, whose mother, Mandy, met the leader of the opposition in Tel Aviv last year, being freed in January. Emily lost two fingers after she was shot in the hand when Hamas abducted her, and I'm sure you'll all agree that the image of her permanently altered hand has become a symbol of resilience and strength.

We've also seen the release of Eli Sharabi, the son in law of Peter and Gillian Brisley of Bridgend. On his release, Eli was gaunt and malnourished; he had no knowledge of the fate of this wife, Lianne, and their two teenage daughters, all of whom were brutally murdered by Hamas on 7 October. Imagine his pain on learning that news.

However, whilst there have been some positive steps towards peace and some hostages have been released, we must also remember that there are at least eight hostages who will not make it home alive, and we have no idea of the fate of scores of others. That's why we on this side of the Chamber today reiterate our call for the UK Government to do everything in their power, with partners, to push for humanitarian access to those who are still being held hostage. We believe that the UK Government should offer whatever practical support it can to facilitate the smooth release of hostages, and our colleagues at Westminster will continue to push for this in Parliament.

Here in Wales, the Welsh Government has worked to support the Disasters Emergency Committee charities, and I very much welcome that. The Welsh Government's statement last month reminded us that in Gaza around 1.8 million people are facing shortages of food as supplies have become increasingly scarce, and we also know that there are many people in need of medical treatment and care. It's absolutely right that the Welsh Government is supporting the Disasters Emergency Committee charities and their local partners to increase the amount of food and other urgent aid they can deliver into Gaza. These organisations are able to reach more families in need because of that support, and I'm sure we all welcome that.

Llywydd, we have called for a two-state solution, and continue to urge Israeli and Palestinian leaders to come together, with the support of the international community, to secure just that. Amnesty International has rightly said that there has been delayed and insufficient diplomatic action, and that has to change. The international community has a responsibility to ensure discussions between both sides continue to take place, and I trust that the UK Government is doing everything it can to encourage those discussions. There is an important opportunity to make this ceasefire a permanent one, and it should be a priority of all international Governments to use the diplomatic levers they have to facilitate ongoing discussions between the Israeli and Palestinian authorities.

And finally, Llywydd, the Welsh Government has a role to play in supporting Welsh families and communities with Israeli and Palestinian links. The latest hate crime statistics from the Home Office show that religions hate crimes in England and Wales have soared by 25 per cent to record levels. Indeed, that report states that the increase was driven by a rise in hate crimes against Jewish and Muslim people, and has occurred since the beginning of the Israel-Hamas conflict. And so we all have to do a lot of work here as well. We have to redouble our efforts to show that religious hate has no place here in Wales.

So, in closing, Llywydd, I want to reiterate the points that we have made in our amendment, to condemn the devastating loss of human life in this conflict, to support efforts to ensure that humanitarian aid is urgently provided to those in need, and to again reaffirm our support for the release of all remaining hostages, a permanent ceasefire, and a two-state solution in order to achieve lasting peace in the region.

I call on the Cabinet Secretary for Social Justice now to move formally amendments 2, 3 and 4.

Formally.

Diolch. Sioned Williams.

Diolch, Llywydd. Since the first anniversary last year of the horrific 7 October attacks on Israeli citizens by Hamas, and the illegal and barbaric collective punishment by the Israeli Government of the Palestinian people in Gaza, I've been urging the Welsh Government to bring a statement or debate to the Senedd on the situation, which has changed and escalated vastly since Plaid Cymru first brought a debate to the Senedd, which backed our calls then for a ceasefire. But I've been frustrated and dismayed by their unwillingness since then to reflect or respond to the concerns voiced in every community in Wales about the actions of the Israeli Government.

On three occasions I have brought forward motions, with cross-party support, to try and ensure that happened. No response, save one written statement, or only when pushed by questions. No heed paid to all those thousands of Welsh citizens who have protested against the war in Gaza in every part of Wales and here at the Senedd. Plaid Cymru now bring this motion as an opposition debate because the commitment made by the Government in response to a request for a statement to, and I quote, look

'to ways in which we can discuss, debate the situation in Gaza, in this Senedd'

have not been honoured.

While foreign policy is not devolved, the future generations commissioner has urged the Welsh Government to show more leadership on this matter. In his letter to the First Minister, the commissioner said the Welsh Government has the opportunity to act in partnership with the UK Government to represent Welsh values on the international stage with regard to Israel's attacks on the people of Gaza, in accordance with its statutory commitment to be a globally responsible nation under the Well-being of Future Generations (Wales) Act 2015. But the Senedd has not heard a full response to his calls, let alone an embracing of them. And the people of Wales remember that the Government did not shy away from making its voice heard on other recent conflicts, reiterating time and again on the record their unequivocal solidarity with the Ukrainian people in the face of Putin's aggression. But we heard no such condemnation of Israel's Prime Minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, whose forces have turned homes, businesses, schools, hospitals and tens of thousands of women and children to dust. UN reports show that no other conflicts killed a higher number of children in one year. Where was the outrage at Netanyahu's aggression? Where was the solidarity with the Palestinian people?

Then we had the momentous and hopeful news earlier this year that the first phase of a ceasefire had been agreed, but still silence—the Government of Wales unwilling to ensure the voice of our nation is heard clearly advocating for peace and justice for the Palestinian people, now and in the future, at this crucial juncture. Why? Because the Welsh Government is unwilling to call on their sister Westminster Labour Government to stop selling arms to Israel, even though that is required under international law. That's the truth of it. Never mind 'party before country'; we witnessed 'party before international humanitarian law', and that's why they've deleted the second point of our motion. Your amendment states support for the rule of law. You cannot support the rule of law if you're not willing to condemn Trump's proposals to depopulate Gaza as ethnic cleansing, because those despicable proposals are in clear contravention of international law.

The future generations commissioner reminded the Welsh Government of their responsibility in his letter, and urged them to take urgent action, including advocating for the cessation of arms sales, because the current fragile ceasefire is just the first step towards a lasting and just peace, and it must be supported and protected, and that means preventing actions that contravene international humanitarian law, rather than allowing the continuation of the blockade, occupation and oppression of Palestinians, and Wales has a part to play in that. That's why I'd like to hear exactly how the Welsh Government has ensured it has taken and is taking every measure possible within its competence to ensure it does not contribute to potential war crimes through direct or indirect connections, partnerships or funding. That's why the motion calls for a full review of public sector procurement and investment. We must ensure no Welsh public money, whether through contracts, investments or partnerships, supports companies complicit in unlawful military action or occupation. In answer to an FOI, Amnesty Wales has found that the Welsh Government does not undertake a human rights due diligence process. So, how are you ensuring your trade and procurement policies, funding and partnerships are compliant with international law?

Finally, Llywydd, I want to speak about aid, the withholding of which has played such a large part in the death and suffering illegally inflicted on the innocents of Gaza. It's welcome that the Welsh Government has now added to their donation to the DEC middle east appeal, so the total is now £200,000. You gave £4 million to the DEC appeal for Ukraine. You must see how that sends an unfortunate message to communities in Wales with links to the Palestinians of Gaza. So, will you commit further humanitarian support for Gaza?

I'd like to conclude with the words of Eurgain Haf from Save the Children Wales in an excellent article in Barn:

'To vouchsafe that humanitarian aid can make a difference and save lives, that stability is created, that peace is a real possibility and that there is accountability for crimes against children, we must ensure that the ceasefire is permanent.'

Wales must play its part in this process. Thank you.

John Griffiths.

Diolch, Llywydd—[Applause.]

I did allow applause to follow the introductory speech in this debate. We don't have a tradition, and I really want to avoid a tradition developing, of various speeches being applauded and others not, so if we can allow the debate to continue. This is a very important debate, and the voices of everybody in this Chamber, elected by the people of Wales, need to be heard. So, it's with respect that I ask for the applause not to follow speeches, please. John Griffiths.

Diolch, Llywydd. Llywydd, the terrible recent conflict in Israel and the Palestinian territories has a long history, of course. I very much hope the current very fragile ceasefire holds and that we can see humanitarian aid flowing into Gaza to help relieve some of the huge suffering that has taken place and is taking place there, and all our efforts and international efforts have to go towards making sure that that ceasefire becomes permanent and that we start to see a political solution to the long-standing problems and the terrible recent suffering that has been brought into all of our homes through our television screens. 

Llywydd, I went to the West Bank over 20 years ago and stayed in east Jerusalem and travelled to different parts of the West Bank, including Hebron and Ramallah, and saw for myself at that time the separation wall being built, the checkpoints, the illegal settlements, the great imbalance in wealth and power between Israel and the occupied Palestinian territory and the oppression that was there then and is there now. At a rally and march in Newport a few months ago, the Welsh poet Patrick Jones spoke about the brutalisation of oppression, for those oppressed but also those oppressing, and just what it does to a society, a state and a people, and the huge misery it brings to everyone who is in that situation.

And I think we've seen that, that terrible imbalance in military force, played out in this recent conflict and the huge destruction in Gaza, the terrible loss of life—women and children—the destruction of infrastructure, water supply, medical facilities, amputations performed on children without anaesthetic, as we know, on a terrible and unimaginable scale. The suffering is absolutely huge and difficult to comprehend, and has been documented by the International Court of Justice, the International Criminal Court, Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch and Médecins Sans Frontières. The evidence is there, it's genocidal in nature and it's on a scale and a level of inhumanity that we haven't seen elsewhere in recent times.

In the light of that, as the UN Secretary-General António Guterres has said, Llywydd, none of us should be bystanders. And I think that we do now need an international campaign of boycotts, disinvestment and sanctions. We've seen the power of that in other terrible international situations over very many years, and I believe that it's only that sort of international concerted effort that will bring the sort of pressure that needs to be brought to bear on Israel to finally have some meaningful progress towards a two-state solution or some other solution that's acceptable to the Palestinians and Israel, to finally resolve the misery and the suffering. Otherwise, Llywydd, we will just see this conflict flaring up time and time again.

And can I just say that I do welcome some of the Welsh Government's amendments here today, Llywydd? Further humanitarian aid, building on the £200,000 given to the DEC appeal already—we do need to see a lot more, and I hope that that will be forthcoming—and also a review of procurement and investment policy in our public sector here in Wales. These are welcome steps, but obviously we do need a lot more, and what we really need is that international coming together around that programme of, as I say, boycotts, disinvestment and sanctions that really could make a difference. It's made a difference in what seemed to be unsolvable international situations before, and it can make a difference in the middle east as well. 

The war in Gaza is not some opaque foreign conflict that has nothing to do with Wales. Many of our citizens have direct links to the region and have suffered catastrophic losses. Many of us heard the harrowing account given by Gillian and Pete Brisley of Bridgend, who spoke of the pain of losing their daughter and grandchildren in the 7 October attacks. In the Senedd event that I sponsored, we heard from an NHS doctor born in Palestine, now working and living in Swansea. He broke down in tears as he talked about the 60-plus family members that had already died. He remained concerned about his elderly parents, who were moving around from one area to the next, seeking refuge from aerial bombardment with only a tent for shelter.

But the conflict has deeply touched many thousands of our citizens without familial links to the region. That has been clear on the many marches, demonstrations and vigils that I have attended. There has been a big disconnect between what has been going on in Gaza and the lack of condemnation from the international community. There has also been a disconnect between the views of thousands of people in Wales and the inaction of this Labour Government. Community cohesion, that shared connection people have within their community, matters, and as we all know, Wales is very much a community of communities. The challenge of achieving harmonious, cohesive communities has been made all the greater when those on the far right that seek to sow division and hatred in our country are increasingly well funded, organised and so unashamed.

The vision I have, and the vision that Plaid Cymru has always had, is for communities where everyone is treated as equals, with respect, tolerance and humanity, no matter their background or their religion. We are certainly not there yet, because so much prejudice still exists in our society. But I did glimpse something of this, of what is possible, at the inter-faith council event at the International Convention Centre Wales in Newport last Thursday. There, we had people from faith communities across Wales gathered under one roof, with the purpose of further understanding and unity among each other. We were asked to describe a peaceful world: what would it look like, what would it sound like, what would it feel like? What was described was communities living in harmony and peace, whether here in Wales, in Palestine, in Ukraine or any other war-torn part of the world. That is the prize at stake, but it's only achievable if we treat everyone as equals. So, to that end, this Government also has to respond to acts of international aggression equally and in line with verdicts of respected international courts.

The frankly disgusting proposal for the future of Gaza from across the Atlantic is a prime example. It should be given the condemnation it deserves by this Government. Trump's words are dangerous. They give cover to the most extreme voices within the Israeli Government who have already spoken out about expelling Palestinians from Gaza permanently. They embolden those who want to erase Palestinian identity, those who seek to annex and settle land that does not belong to them. And let us be clear, that is not peace. There can be no peace when the rights of one people are denied entirely. There can be no stability when the so-called solution is to exile the victims rather than hold the perpetrators to account. The UK Government most unequivocally reject this disgraceful rhetoric. It must condemn all calls for forced displacement, and demand that the international community protects Palestinians' rights to remain on their land. Anything less is complicity. And as the Senedd, we must demand that this Welsh Government makes clear its opposition to those dangerous proposals and continues to stand for justice, human rights and self-determination, because Gaza belongs to its people; it is not for sale.

Last week, medical professionals from around the world meeting in Geneva expressed concerns for the whereabouts of Dr Hussam Abu Safiyya, director of the Kamal Adwan Hospital in Gaza. I mention this because one of my constituents particularly asked me to highlight it, because of his role in trying to keep going the last functioning hospital in northern Gaza, bombed and set on fire over Christmas by the Israel defence forces. All the medical personnel fled, but Dr Abu Safiyya stayed in his post to try and maintain some sort of medical presence for the population still in the area. So, he was seized by the IDF on 27 December, we are told, and there's been widespread outrage amongst healthcare workers, who see it as a grim escalation of what they have been feeling throughout this conflict: the systematic targeting of medical professionals in Gaza. There has been no evidence provided that the hospitals were being used by Hamas terrorists. None. What appears to have been going on was the need to eliminate all the buildings of any usefulness to the people of Gaza.

We are told, and it was reported on CNN, that Abu Safiyya was taken to a court without the knowledge or presence of a lawyer in order for the Israeli military to extend his detention until Thursday of last week, but I have no idea what has happened to him. The reason why this is being considered such a serious matter is that medical professionals fear he will meet a similar fate to another, Dr Adnan al-Bursh, who was a prominent orthopaedic surgeon who died in Israeli custody 10 months ago, four months after he was arrested during the Israeli military ground invasion of the Jabalia refugee camp. So, a very similar situation.

I was really shocked to be sent very recently a link to a website called Hamakom news, which is a Hebrew website, which translates as, 'The hottest place in hell'. It reported the alleged forcing of an elderly couple in their 80s to clear booby traps and unexploded bombs from the Zeitoun neighbourhood of Gaza City. As it's in Hebrew, I presume it's accessible to the Hebrew-speaking population of Israel and Palestine. The unknown man and his wife were reportedly shot shortly after a trophy photo was taken with him by his captors. Now this, obviously, is an absolutely clear-cut example of a war crime, and one that we need to insist is investigated if peace ever manages to break out permanently in Israel and Palestine.

It's extremely difficult for all of us to understand exactly what's going on. When I met the wonderful people who came to visit us three weeks ago, both Israeli and Palestinian speakers argued forcibly that solutions will not emerge from more fighting. These problems can be traced back to over 100 years ago when the Balfour declaration, made by the British Government, suddenly decreed that the Israelis were to be given house room in Palestine, and that, obviously, then led to a series of land conflicts. And there is still no agreement on how Jerusalem, at the heart of three major religions, is to be made available to everybody who wishes to worship there.

We must support the efforts of all those trying to bridge the divide between the two communities to enable both Israelis and Palestinians to live in peace. We will not do that simply by berating the Welsh Government, who, frankly, have a very small part to play in all this. We have to ensure that the will of the United Nations is adhered to, that there should be two states alongside each other. We must do more to promote that solution, and, frankly, I would have thought nearly everybody in Wales would agree with the points in point 2 of Plaid's motion. But, really, we have to build consensus amongst our own communities, many of whom have links to both Israel and Palestine, in order to ensure that they also are committed to a two-state solution, as are the rest of the UK as well as the rest of Europe. We are not going to have any influence over what President Trump is going to do, because, frankly, he is an entirely transactional individual who's only interested in his own interests and the perceived interests of the United States—[Interruption.] I don't think that's going to be possible, I can see the clock.

So, I think we absolutely have a moral duty to say that the rule of law must be adhered to, but I don't think we should be having to—. We shouldn't be falling over with each other, we should be united in ensuring that we can do the best possible job and have as much influence as we can wield.

It is difficult to conceive of the atrocities that have been perpetrated over the 469 days, as Rhun reminded us, since we had a full discussion on the floor of this Senedd on this matter—the tens of thousands of people killed, the families, the infrastructure, the communities and the neighbourhoods that have been totally destroyed. The lives of survivors have changed forever, with millions of children in Gaza in need of urgent support, not only in terms of their injuries, but in terms of their mental health, having suffered a trauma that no-one should ever have to face.

Not a single one of us can say, either, that we weren't aware of what was happening; it has all been broadcast directly to our phones, to our television screens and to our computers. And I'd like to echo Sioned Williams's comments by expressing my own disappointment that it wasn't possible to reach cross-party consensus on a matter where we could and should be united. We shouldn't be in a situation where we can't agree on this, having seen all of these atrocities for ourselves.

Heledd, may I just say, we did have cross-party agreement; many of the motions put forward were signed cross-party—by all parties on one of them in this Senedd? It was the Government that didn't agree.

And that's where we need that leadership. There are some Governments, for example in Ireland, that are willing to provide that leadership, and the voice of every Parliament counts.

Sioned Williams was entirely correct in saying that not everyone had forgotten or averted their gaze. And today I too would like to pay tribute to everyone in Wales and beyond who has pledged not to forget, and has campaigned consistently, in all weathers, to raise awareness and prick the consciences of those who have been all too silent. The regular briefings by Oxfam Cymru have been particularly powerful, as well as all the vigils and meetings that have been held across Wales, including outside this Senedd.

The atrocities committed in Gaza have not happened in a vacuum; they have happened in full view of the international community, with western Governments either turning a blind eye or actively enabling them. And now, when justice is finally within reach, we see powerful forces trying to shut it down. The International Criminal Court, the only body capable of holding war criminals to account, is under attack. And once again, Donald Trump is leading the charge—Trump threatening to sanction the ICC if it dares to investigate Israeli war crimes. He has called for its judges and prosecutors to face punishment, just as he did in 2020 when the court investigated US war crimes in Afghanistan. He has made it clear that, in his view, some nations are above the law. This is a direct assault on the very concept of international justice. It is an attempt to bully and intimidate a legal body whose only purpose is to hold war criminals, regardless of their nationality, accountable for their actions. And let’s be clear, if we allow one nation to be shielded from prosecution, we are saying that international law only applies to some.

The UK Government must unequivocally reject these threats. It must defend the ICC’s independence and its ability to investigate war crimes wherever they occur. It cannot continue to claim to support justice in Ukraine while undermining it in Palestine. And yet, the UK Government has not only remained silent, it has been complicit. It has refused to support the ICC’s investigations. It has continued arms sales to Israel despite overwhelming evidence that these weapons are being used to commit war crimes.

The Welsh Government must also take a stand. We in Wales cannot claim to uphold human rights while remaining silent in the face of these atrocities. The Senedd must call on the Welsh Government, through supporting our motion today, to publicly back the ICC’s investigations and condemn any attempts to undermine international justice; to cut all ties with arms manufacturers complicit in the Gaza assault and work to ensure Wales plays no role in facilitating war crimes; and to reinstate and increase funding for humanitarian agencies working in Gaza, including the United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees.

We must also use Wales's voice to push for an end to UK arms sales to Israel, and a stronger stance from the UK Government. Because without accountability, there is no deterrent. Without justice, there is no peace. And without action, all the fine words about human rights mean nothing.

I welcome being able to take part in this debate today. Given the fragile nature of the ceasefire in Gaza and the horrific scale of death and destruction, which has been allowed to be carried out with impunity for far too long, it is morally vital that this Senedd reaffirms in the strongest possible terms its support for a lasting peace in the middle east. I am glad that the motion also asks for us to join the call for those who have been responsible for committing the gravest of crimes against humanity to be held to account for their actions.

To date, the Welsh Government has provided two separate and very welcome donations totalling £200,000 to the Disasters Emergency Committee's middle east humanitarian appeal. And I know that our First Minister, Eluned Morgan, in a recent interview with The Guardian, said that if she was a young woman again, she would want to go out and help reconstruct Gaza from the rubble of this conflict. So, I know that the Welsh Government will be keen to assist in any way it can in this monumental task.

Amnesty International is calling on the Welsh Government to take immediate action to cease procurement by public bodies in Wales from companies that conduct business within Israeli settlements in occupied Palestinian territories, and I hope that this is something being looked into. The ceasefire, fragile as it may be, has brought with it a welcome respite from the horrors of the conflict, with Palestinians able to return to their home towns and hostages and detainees finally being reunited with their families. But the scale of the challenge ahead for both achieving peace and rebuilding Gaza is such that it requires all of us to play a part, no matter how small, in meeting that challenge. We do need a two-state solution to achieve lasting peace for that region. And as I've referenced earlier, Wales and our Government, with the backing of Members right across this Chamber, have already made welcome steps in meeting our moral responsibility. But I hope that this can continue going forward. Thank you.

The atrocities that have come to our attention in Gaza over the past year and a half have proven to be one a seminal event. It's a war that has forced all of us to examine and search our humanity and to demand a response.

Now, I'm not claiming here that one side is right and the other wrong, or that there is justice on one side and injustice on the other. Hamas's acts on 7 October 2023 were evil, evil using the English meaning of the Welsh word 'drwg'. They were evil in the same way that the killing of 8,000 Palestinians by the state of Israel over the previous 10 years was evil. But then, of course it was evil; when someone decides that killing other people is the answer to any question, then that is the definition of 'evil', because there is no justification for killing. If killing is the answer, then the question needs to be reframed entirely.

But it is also a seminal event because of our decision on how to respond to the fierce reaction of the state of Israel against poor people, many of them children. It is estimated that the state of Israel has dropped approximately 85,000 tonnes of bombs on Gaza, almost five times more than the weight of bombs dropped on London during the Blitz. This is a patch of land that is less than half the size of Anglesey, and with almost the same population as Wales.

Through the bombs and the land campaigns, hospitals, homes, farms and everything else was destroyed, leading to a large number of casualties and deaths. Now, it's difficult to come to an accurate figure—impossible to have that accurate figure, perhaps—because it is estimated that tens of thousands of the victims still lie under the rubble and devastation. 

The Lancet published a report in June of last year that estimated that almost 190,000 people had been killed, and other sources estimate that the true figure has now reached over 300,000. Bearing in mind that half the population is under 18, we can be sure that a large percentage of the victims were children—children who had their lives ahead of them; children who would have helped to build and create a new society, new relationships, a new world; children who lost their ability to play, the ability to laugh, with the ensuing silence and darkness leaving a generation to live—if 'live' is the word; they are existing—with trauma and scars that run so deep that they will feed the desire to seek revenge, in turn leading to a new generation of bloodshed in years to come.

And the number of deaths is high because we know that society has completely broken down there. There is no medical care, there is no food and no sources of nutrition, water pipes have been destroyed and there is very little clean water available, not to mention sewerage infrastructure and other basic requirements. We are seeing polio once again rearing its head in Gaza, and people are dying of famine. And every single one of those lives was valuable, and every single one was loved and cherished.

This, all of this, has happened in front of our eyes—on the television screens, on our laptops, on our mobile phones. The anguish, the suffering, the pain, and the question is: how do we respond in the face of all this pain? Is our response to reach out a hand of love and friendship showing our humanity, or is it to allow more bombings, more suffering, more killing? Yes, it’s correct to say that the vast majority of the arms supplied for this mass indiscriminate bombing came from the US, but they were dropped from F-35s, with key components built and supplied here in the UK, amongst a number of other key components of the various weapons used so ferociously on hospitals, schools and houses, against women, children and the elderly—arms developed with the sole purpose of killing. Wales, with support from the Welsh Government, hosts 160 companies in the defence sector, with specialisations in weapons manufacturing, software and drone technology, many of which will have been used in killings, all leading to destruction, and human rights organisations calling these war crimes.

I’m afraid that the massacre isn’t over. Yes, there’s a pause—it might be a short pause or it could be a long pause—but history teaches us that bloodshed will continue, because some believe in an eye for an eye and will never love their enemies.

Mike Hedges. That was too long a pause there. Carry on. 

One final comment. So, the question remains for us and is posed in this motion: do we allow the selling of arms so that some can command fire to come down from heaven and consume them, or do we chose not to destroy people, but to save them? Shalom, salam, peace, heddwch.

We often compare places to the size of Wales. Well, Gaza is 141 square miles, less than the distance from Carmarthen to Swansea in length, and the width of Swansea city centre to Mumbles. This is a small area. Gaza is considered by many biblical experts to be the route Jesus, Mary and Joseph took to get to Egypt from Bethlehem. I think it's very unfortunate that we're going to divide on a vote today. It would have been so much better—and I say this to the leader of Plaid Cymru and others—if we'd had an agreed motion between the three parties.

I have been trying for months to get an agreed motion. Did you listen to my contribution, Mike?

I did, yes. 

So, you would have understood, then. So, why are you saying what you're saying? 

Because I think it's—. I wasn't blaming you. I just said it's unfortunate and I think most people outside your benches would also describe it as unfortunate. I'm sure you found very little to disagree with in Paul Davies's comments.

Can I go on next to say I condemn Hamas's attack on Israeli civilians in October 2023, including the murder of civilians and the taking of hostages? It was an unnecessary provocation. And as Mabon just said, it was an evil act—and I don't think we use the word evil often enough when we talk about what's happening there. I also condemn Israel's military response, which led to more than 60,000 Palestinian deaths and left millions of civilians in Gaza in urgent need of humanitarian aid. We need a permanent ceasefire, full humanitarian access for relief organisations, the return of hostages and the release of all political prisoners.

There is a lot that other countries can do. Egypt can open its borders to allow refugees access. Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates can sell American bonds and not buy American bonds. They can sell US dollars and turn them into euros or pounds sterling. Buy no more US dollars. Other countries can and should do likewise, responding to the United States' action in a manner that the current president will understand: it will cause them financial problems.

We must condemn President Trump's proposal to depopulate Gaza and ethnic cleansing, and we need to support the communities in Wales with Palestinian and Israeli links. As someone whose niece is married to somebody of Israeli background, I understand just how frightening and difficult it can be for their community. We need to recognise the state of Palestine—146 UN member states have done, why not us? We should fly the Palestinian flag, as we have the Ukrainian flag outside the Senedd building, to show our support.

There are at least 19,000 orphans in Gaza and thousands who have lost one parent. At least 28,000 Palestinians have been killed in Gaza, including 11,500 children. Gaza has more children than almost anywhere else, with almost half of its population under 18. All of Gaza's children have been exposed to the traumatic experiences of war, leading to long-lasting consequences. Around 1.9 million people in Gaza, including half of them children, have been internally displaced and lack access to the basic necessities, like water, food, fuel and medicine.

From a BBC report last week:

'Zakaria is 11 years old'—

i.e. at the end of primary school—

'and lives in Gaza. He reckons he has seen thousands of bodies since the war started. But at an age when children are typically found in a classroom, Zakaria is volunteering at one of Gaza's few functioning hospitals—al-Aqsa.

'As a succession of ambulances ferrying victims of the war between Israel and Hamas pull up outside the facility in the central town of Deir al-Balah, Zakaria clears a way through the crowds to retrieve newly arrived patients and rush them inside for treatment.

'Moments later, he is running through the corridors of the hospital with a stretcher and later carries a young child inside to the emergency room.

'Several of his school friends have been killed since the conflict started and hanging around the hospital means Zakaria witnesses shocking scenes. He says that once, after an Israeli strike, he saw a boy in front of him burn to death'.

Eventually, peace will come; peace always comes. It's just we want to reduce the number of children, the number of people who are killed, maimed and seriously injured. I think we need an international boycott now. It worked on South Africa; it can work on Israel.

The Cabinet Secretary for Social Justice now to contribute—Jane Hutt.

Diolch, Llywydd. I think we can express today the recognition that all of us around this Chamber have been horrified by the violence in Israel, Palestine and the wider region over the last 16 months and more. We are conscious that whilst foreign policy issues are not devolved, there are real and lasting concerns and consequences for and in Welsh communities. Members have spoken powerfully today in this debate and I'm pleased to be speaking on behalf of the Welsh Government.

We support, in the motion, points 1(a) and 1(b), which reaffirm the Senedd's condemnation of Hamas's attacks on Israeli civilians on 7 October 2023 and Israel's military response, which has led to more than 60,000 Palestinian deaths and left millions of civilians in Gaza in urgent need of humanitarian aid, contrary to international law, and the Senedd's support for a permanent ceasefire, full humanitarian access, the return of hostages and business and a just and lasting peace through a two-state solution.

Israel must work closely with the UN and partners so that this ceasefire is sustained. And even with this ceasefire, the humanitarian situation, which has been described so vividly today in this debate, as we know, in Gaza, remains catastrophic. Many thousands have been killed in Gaza and more than 90 per cent of the population has been displaced, many repeatedly. We welcome the agreement in the ceasefire to facilitate Palestinian civilians to return safely to northern Gaza. The UK has made it clear, including during talks at the UN Security Council, that northern Gaza must not be cut off from the south. Palestinian civilians, including those evacuated from northern Gaza, must be permitted to return to their communities and rebuild. We want to support families to be able to return to their homes, to rebuild their lives and start the slow process towards recovery after witnessing months of devastation and mourning the thousands of lives that have been lost. We must now see a concerted effort by the international community to deliver that desperately needed humanitarian aid into Gaza, and civil society must have a strong role in Gaza's early recovery. It will be best placed to rebuild Gaza's communities, and we are considering what support and co-ordination we can offer from Wales to help with the reconstruction of Gaza.

Over the period of this devastating conflict, there was a prolonged period whereby it was simply too dangerous for humanitarian aid to be distributed in Gaza. The Welsh Government welcomed the announcement by the Disasters Emergency Committee late last year that conditions had improved sufficiently to enable it to launch an appeal. We immediately made a £100,000 donation towards the appeal, and we're pleased to be able to make a further £100,000 donation for essential humanitarian aid last month. Fully reinstating commercial deliveries will be key to sustaining the flow of aid. We also need more types of goods to be allowed in, such as tents, medical equipment, and the machinery needed to support the resumption of basic services in Gaza, as well as new and sustainable healthcare provision, the clearance of unexploded ordnance, and children able to restart safe schooling. UK aid is contributing to the increase in aid reaching Gaza. Life-saving UK-funded medical supplies have reached Gaza via Jordanian helicopters in an operation supported by UK military planners.

Llywydd, we also support part 3 of this motion. The Welsh Government has long recognised how important it is to use our legislative power to promote ethical procurement. In 2012, I published the Welsh procurement policy, which set out our responsibilities as an ethical procurement body. The Well-being of Future Generations (Wales) Act 2015 requires public bodies to pursue the well-being goals through all their procurement activity. One of these goals is for us to be a globally responsible Wales, and I do respect the well-being of future generations commissioner's contribution in line with that goal. It is important that our approach to procurement must be compliant with our own procurement rules as well as international obligations through the Government procurement agreement. We continuously work to ensure that public money is spent in a responsible and ethical way within the context of our legal obligations, and we're endeavouring to ensure that the guidance we put in place to support the new procurement legislation coming in next year will enable contracting authorities to deliver responsible and ethical procurement outcomes, both at home and overseas.

Llywydd, I was able to chair a meeting of the Faith Communities Forum last week with both Muslim and Jewish faith leaders, as well as other faith leaders, welcoming the news of the ceasefire and hostage releases, and it's vital that we continue to do what we can do to work with our communities here in Wales who have been affected by the horrors of the war, and our relationships with faith leaders is a critical part of this. Peredur Owen Griffiths, as you know, I was with you, and I spoke at the Interfaith Council for Wales meeting last Thursday. It was very powerful, bringing so many together, including those with power and responsibility to take action. We're actively, and have been actively, supporting communities in Wales with Palestinian and Israeli links, and I've met with both our communities and representatives over the past year or so, and indeed longer than that.

But, I think, as Paul Davies said, religious hate crime has no place here in Wales, and thank you for reflecting on that. The role of our Faith Communities Forum is so important. I do also thank Paul and also Peredur for reflecting on the recent release of Eli Sharabi, and his mother and father-in-law, Gill and Pete Brisley, who live in Bridgend, working tirelessly to keep the world's eyes on his appalling captivity, and that of many others. And the immense pain that the family has experienced will not subside, despite Eli's release. We must continue to see all of the hostages freed. We agree this across this Chamber in this motion and the debate. The ceasefire must hold, and all efforts need to focus on full implementations of the remaining phases.

So, in conclusion, Llywydd, the Welsh Government continues to hope for the ceasefire to hold to enable the return of all the remaining hostages and the continued distribution of aid in Gaza. And in response to the points that have been made today, I will be meeting DEC Cymru, but also other humanitarian organisations, including Oxfam, in the coming weeks to explore how we can commit further humanitarian support for Gaza, and I would be very happy then to come back and report on the follow-up from that meeting.

I do hope we can come together today to unite, to unite in support of our calls in this Chamber today for lasting peace in the middle east. A two-state solution is the only way to ensure, in the longer term, peace and security for both Palestinians and Israelis, and it's essential that we continue to focus on turning this deal into a political process that leads to this two-state solution, and this deal will remain fragile. Thank you, John Griffiths, for your call today—we must build confidence on all sides that help sustain the ceasefire and move it from phase one through to phase three and into lasting peace.

And I have my final words now, so I won't be taking an intervention.

This was starkly highlighted in the BBC2 documentary on life in Gaza, and thank you, Mike Hedges, for commenting on that. Many of us have seen it. If you haven't seen it, see it, watch it. With War through the eyes of a child, Abdullah, Renad and Zakaria led us through the horrors that they have experienced. We owe it to those children to unite and support for far, long-lasting peace. And as Renad said, 'Now I have hope when the ceasefire was announced.' Let’s hope that this can become a reality for Renad and her friends and family. But our words today are important. I hope that they can show some assurance of our commitment to support not just that call for peace, but the ways in which we can respond in terms of humanitarian support for the rebuilding of Gaza for Palestine. Diolch yn fawr.

Rhun ap Iorwerth to reply.

Thank you, Llywydd, and thank you to everyone who's participated in this debate this afternoon.

This debate today is an opportunity for us to make it clear that Wales refuses to be silent in the face of the horrors that we have seen in Gaza, what Amnesty International concluded is genocide, and that we in this Parliament must demand moral clarity and political action. We can't allow legal equivocation or political hesitation to stand in the way of justice.

We've heard in this debate again today, haven't we, yes, of the horrors of 7 October 2023, the indiscriminate slaughter of Israeli civilians. But we've also relived, haven't we, the disproportionate and unjust response—more than 60,000 Palestinians killed, including many thousands of children. We've heard of the deliberate destruction of hospitals, schools and refugee camps. We've heard of the obstruction of humanitarian aid, the starvation of an entire population, and the impending famine that aid agencies have warned is now unavoidable. These are not accidents of war, are they? These are deliberate war crimes.

We've also heard of the growing efforts to expel Palestinians from their lands—a second Nakba, a forced displacement that would amount to ethnic cleansing. Let's call it what it is. Palestinians do not want to leave Gaza. They do not want to be relocated. They want to live in dignity, in safety, in freedom, on their own land. I note with deep regret the Government's amendment, amendment 3, that attempts to remove our call for a condemnation by the UK Government of President Trump's plans to forcibly vacate and redevelop Gaza. We have to make these calls internationally, together. But this motion isn't just about calling for action from the UK Government; it's also about the steps we must take here in Wales. If we are to uphold our moral responsibility, then we must ensure that Welsh public money doesn't contribute in any way, directly or indirectly, to war crimes. We must also be ready to commit further humanitarian support for Gaza. The people of Wales have already demonstrated so clearly their solidarity in every part of the country—communities everywhere mobilising, raising funds, sending aid and demanding political action. The Welsh Government must respond to that with real commitments, ensuring that aid reaches those in need, and supporting the vital work of humanitarian organisations on the ground.

And finally, we must support communities here in Wales. On that, we must stand together. Those with Palestinian and Israeli families living in unimaginable fear and grief—we must stand with them, ensuring they have the support and protection they need at this deeply traumatic time. We cannot bring peace alone, but we can refuse to be complicit, and we can demand that our Governments act. That's plural. We must call on UK and Welsh Governments to take action today. I know the Cabinet Secretary is sincere in her words, and we stand in solidarity on those areas on which we have shared, common views and common ground. But, as my colleague Sioned Williams said, the Welsh Government has been too quiet too often on Gaza. Regret was expressed that we're not able to have a united motion today. I absolutely share that regret. But, no, we couldn't get Government support for the core call, from our point of view, for the ceasing of selling arms to Israel, and the Government was also unable, for some reason, to call on the UK Government to condemn the comments by President Trump of the United States regarding the future of Gaza. But we have to speak united, and we will continue to pursue that. That's why Plaid Cymru brings this debate today forward in our opposition debate. No, foreign affairs is not devolved, as we heard, but we can ensure that Wales takes responsibility for its own voice in the world, and, as I again seek that unity, I urge all Members to support our motion today in its entirety.

The proposal is to agree the motion without amendment. Does any Member object? There is objection, and therefore we will defer voting until voting time.

That brings us to voting time, and, unless three Members wish for the bell to be rung, we will move immediately to voting. The first votes this afternoon will be on item 6, the Welsh Conservatives debate on the 'Ending corridor care in Wales' report, and I call for a vote on the motion without amendment, tabled in the name of Paul Davies. Open the vote. Close the vote. In favour 24, no abstentions, 26 against. The motion is not agreed.

Amendment 1 is next. Open the vote on amendment 1, tabled in the name of Jane Hutt. Close the vote. In favour 26, no abstentions, 24 against, and therefore amendment 1 is agreed.

The next vote is on the motion as amended by amendment 1.

Open the vote. Close the vote. In favour 26, no abstentions, 24 against. The motion as amended is agreed.

The next series of votes is on item 7, the Plaid Cymru debate on Gaza. I call for a vote first of all on the motion without amendment, tabled in the name of Heledd Fychan. Open the vote. Close the vote. In favour 11, no abstentions, 39 against. Therefore, the motion is not agreed. 

We will now vote on amendment 1, and, if amendment 1 is agreed, amendments 2, 3 and 4 will be deselected. A vote, therefore, on amendment 1, in the name of Paul Davies. Open the vote. Close the vote. In favour 13, no abstentions, 37 against. Therefore, amendment 1 is not agreed. 

Amendment 2 is next, in the name of Jane Hutt. Open the vote. Close the vote. In favour 50, no abstentions, none against. Therefore, amendment 2 is agreed. 

Amendment 3 is next, again in the name of Jane Hutt. Open the vote. Close the vote. In favour 38, one abstention, 11 against. Therefore, the amendment is agreed. 

Amendment 4 is next, in the name of Jane Hutt. Open the vote. Close the vote. In favour 37, no abstentions, 13 against. Therefore, amendment 4 is agreed. 

The final vote is on the motion as amended. 

Open the vote. Close the vote. In favour 37, no abstentions, 13 against, and therefore the motion as amended is agreed. 

That concludes voting for this afternoon. 

We will move now to the short debate, and this afternoon's short debate is to be introduced by Adam Price. 

Thank you very much, Llywydd. Our debate today encompasses public transport in post-industrial communities across Wales. Three of my fellow Members—Carolyn Thomas, Peredur Owen Griffiths and Luke Fletcher—will be contributing about their own communities, but I want to focus on a region that has for too long been ignored, the west Wales Valleys, and particularly I want to speak about the transformative potential of railways in these communities. 

This is personal to me. I was born in Tumble, in Cwm Gwendraeth, and then grew up in Tycroes in the Amman valley, near the Afon Llwchwr. I've experienced the reality of communities that have been isolated from the rail network, and, as the Member for Carmarthen East and Dinefwr in two Parliaments over two decades, I have seen opportunities falling by the wayside, with every railway line closing and every bus route that has been cancelled. 

Let me paint a picture of the west Wales Valleys. There are seven valleys across four counties—Swansea, Neath Port Talbot, Carmarthenshire and Powys—there is a cluster of communities formed by coal. The Amman valley, stretching from Ammanford to Brynamman, Cwm Gwendraeth, the Fach and Fawr running down to the coastline, the Swansea valley, extending from the city through Clydach to Ystradgynlais, cwm Dulais from Aberdulais, and the Neath valley, the Amman valley, and Dyffryn Llwchwr—every one has its own character, every one has its own history, and, together, they are home to over a quarter of a million people. Now, these Valleys were famous for their hard coal, high-grade coal, appreciated for its clean burn and its intense heat and the network of railways was a lifeline for them. The branch lines reached every valley; there were stations serving every community. The freight trains carried that valuable coal to markets across Britain, whilst passenger services connected people with employment and family and opportunities. And then the closures came; one after another, these passenger services came to an end, station after station falling silent. Some lines remained open for the transport of coal, others were mothballed, some disappeared entirely. The wide-ranging railway network that wove our communities together fell into ruin.

But the story doesn't end there. Almost 10 years ago, Plaid Cymru negotiated a budget agreement that secured the first commitment to a Swansea bay and western Valleys metro. That agreement funded the strategic outline assessment that laid the foundation for what I'm going to talk about tonight. It was a start, but we now need to finish what we began. Look across Wales, see what rail investment can do: the core Valleys line transformation, approximately £1.1 billion invested. The Ebbw Vale line, £160 million bringing new life to the eastern Valleys. Good investments, vital investments, transformative investments that show us what's possible when we commit to rail and a visionary feature. But, in the western Valleys, we wait; a quarter of a million people wait.

Let me tell you about decline: our Valleys once hummed with trains. They ran everywhere through every community, connecting everyone. Like steel arteries, railway lines carried the lifeblood of commerce and community through every fold of our hills. Now, we have fragments. The buses try their best—they really do—but tight budgets and challenging terrain make their routes long and infrequent. Tell someone in the western Valleys to just catch a bus to work; watch their weary smile. They know what that means: long waits, longer journeys and timetables full of holes.

I'm sure the Minister is going to talk about the potential impact of bus franchising and this reform is welcome, as it is long overdue. But as I say in the western Valleys plan document, if buses are the nerves of a local transport system, offering agility and reach, then rail is the backbone, the backbone that gives strength, the backbone that holds communities upright, the backbone that lets them stand tall and reach forward.

Walk through our Valleys today, count the endless stream of cars crawling along our roads, many a driver wishing they had another choice. Watch the carbon rise into our air as it once did into the lungs of our forefathers. See the opportunities slip away with every missed connection. This isn't just about transport; this is about lives on hold, but now we have an opportunity. The UK Government has announced its investment in the Oxford to Cambridge rail line, dubbed Britain's silicon valley. Unlike HS2, and that glaring injustice, this project does come with a 100 per cent comparability factor in terms of Barnett. That means a full Barnett consequential, £7 billion of investment, that's £392 million of extra money that will come to Wales that could transform rail in our western Valleys.

The western Valleys plan, it isn't a dream, it's not a wish, it's engineering, it's economics, it's evidence. Phase 1 of our plan begins with rhythm and pace. Every 30 minutes, trains will connect Swansea to Ammanford via Pontarddulais, new stations rising at Morriston, Felindre, Pontlliw, then onwards, reaching up the valley to Glanaman, to Garnant, to Gwaun-Cae-Gurwen.

The Dulais valley awakens too, from Neath through Aberdulais, through Crynant, through Seven Sisters all the way to Onllwyn. And here's where vision meets opportunity: in Onllwyn, the global centre of rail excellence is taking shape. Think about this: a world-class rail-testing facility in the heart of our western Valleys. But right now, the very communities that will host this centre of excellence can't even access it by rail. The irony would be laughable if it weren't so tragic. This project could create hundreds of skilled jobs, but who among local people will be able to reach them?

Phase 2 of our plan pushes further: Neath to Cwmgwrach, bringing Tonna and Resolven back to the network. Communities reconnected, possibilities restored. The cost, well, we know it precisely, £392 million, not a penny more than the east-west rail consequential based on the Government's own Welsh transport appraisal guidance stage 2 assessments for the lines that we have set out, with an adjustment for inflation. It's not about finding new money; this is about directing future resources that we will have to where they're needed most. It's about giving the western Valleys the same chance that other Valleys have rightly received.

Then comes phase 3—bold, but achievable—the Gwendraeth valley from Llanelli to Cross Hands and onwards. The Swansea valley line extending through Clydach and Pontardawe to Ystradgynlais and Abercraf. The Afan valley route linking Port Talbot to Cymmer. Each one carefully planned, each one ready for its moment.

Picture this: the year is 2032, every 30 minutes, like clockwork, trains glide through the Dulais valley, through the Amman valley. Parents reaching jobs in half the time, students accessing colleges without endless and frustrating bus journeys, elderly residents connecting with family and services. The global centre of rail excellence buzzing with local workers arriving by rail. By 2035, those same trains reach Cwmgwrach, then the Gwendraeth valley, the Afan valley, the Swansea valley.

Today, we ask for four things: ring-fence that east-west rail consequential for our western Valleys; move quickly to detailed design phases for phases 1 and 2; plan the future phases now; show leadership and vision. Simple requests, transformative results. Minister, the western Valleys stand ready, our communities stand ready. The plans are drawn, the costs are counted, the benefits are clear. This isn't about nostalgia for the past, this is about building the future, about clean air and clear roads, about jobs within reach and services accessible, about communities connected and carbon reduced, about finishing what we started almost a decade ago with that first commitment to a Swansea bay and western Valleys metro.

Let's put the western Valleys back on Wales's rail map. Let's give them the modern, sustainable, affordable transport system they deserve, so that no valley is left behind. Let us make progress together forward now.

I, of course, welcome very much the plan that Adam has set out in his contribution. I would also add two other valleys that are in Bridgend county, the Garw valley and the Ogmore valley. The Ogmore valley connecting Treorchy with the rest of the Rhondda, but the Garw valley as well in particular, where there is one road in and one road out, and an unreliable bus service. I would add as well in terms of trains, and Peredur will know my obsession with trams, that we should also be looking at trams, light rail, those sorts of systems that allow us to deal with the topography of the Valleys that can be both reliable and cheaper than the sort of trains that we are seeing right now operating within Wales.

And finally, I think we also have to think about how we can incorporate active travel into this. Rhun, Heledd and I have visited the Rhondda tunnel, and if you want to access that tunnel at the moment, you've got to either go down a rope, through a shaft, or you go on a skateboard through a very tight tunnel that takes you into one end. And I know that the Dirprwy Lywydd has also been down in that tunnel: you went down the shaft, I went down on a skateboard. There is a role there for those old industrial infrastructures to play now in this new plan, I think. Opening up the Rhondda tunnel would open up that cross-community connection that doesn't exist at the moment. So, I would hope that we would hear something from the transport Minister on that basis, and potentially any plans, or where the Government is at the moment, in its conversations with UK Government on getting the Rhondda tunnel project off the ground.

Where I live used to be a really busy coal-mining area and there was a railway station, but when that industry ended, there was a mass clearance of what were classed as 'slum developments', and people were rehoused in council houses; hundreds of them were built in the village two miles up the road. And that changed that community, as well as ours, and the station closed. As well as council houses, there was sheltered accommodation there, also with the development. But for them, the bus service is an absolute lifeline and we've had to keep fighting to keep it going over the years, and it's hanging on by a thread.

Public bus transport ensures equal opportunity, transporting people to work, to health appointments and to education. It helps keep town centres and villages vibrant and it employs lots of people, as well as being hugely important just for getting out and meeting other people socially. It ensures that people have a decent life and fair opportunities. Thank you.

Trains, trams and even skateboards need routes, and Adam has vividly painted there the vision for the western Valleys. If we want the option of rebuilding our rail infrastructure in the future across Wales, forward planning is essential. We know that some of the old railway lines have been built on already, so I'd like to ask the Cabinet Secretary: do you think it would be a good idea to change planning policy, so that stretches of rail corridors across Wales could be protected within LDPs to futureproof the line viability and allow us to develop our rail network in the longer term? We can build on some of the visionary aspects of what we want to achieve and have that ambition, but we need those building blocks to be able to actually build these railways. Diolch.

I call on the Cabinet Secretary for Transport and North Wales to reply to the debate. Ken Skates.

Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd. Firstly, I'd like to thank Adam Price for tabling this short debate today on what is a hugely important, exciting and creative topic. I'd also like to thank him for presenting such a clear picture of the potential in the western Valleys when it comes to rail connectivity.

I do believe that we have a very strong record in Government in intervening in post-industrial communities, especially when it comes to public transport. It was the Welsh Government, after all, who stepped up to reopen the Ebbw Vale line after the steelworks closed. And it's thanks to our funding that particular project that the line was extended right through the site of the old steelworks, right into the heart of the community. And it's further funding from Welsh Government, actually, that's now led to doubling the frequency of services on the line, connecting Ebbw Vale directly to Newport for the first time since the 1960s.

Now, I think it's fair to say that the best demonstration of all, though, of our commitment to post-industrial communities and the investment that is available for public transport does—

Cabinet Secretary, will you take an intervention from Peredur Owen Griffiths?

Yes, absolutely.

Talking about the Ebbw Vale line, what consideration have you given to the Abertillery link, as well, because that's been promised a long time? I know that the sense of feeling in the community there is that it seems to have been ignored and forgotten about. It's something that's been promised for the best part of 20 years. Is it something that you'd consider?

Well, it's very much in our minds, but as we've heard today there are competing calls for investment in all regions of Wales, and that's why it's important that we prioritise based on deliverability, affordability and also demand, and the need to be able to access public transport where it currently doesn't exist. But it is certainly in our minds.

In the core Valleys lines, as Adam Price has identified, we're investing more than £1 billion in the transformation of the CVL, and brand new electric trains are now running on our core Valleys lines network. That, of course, is a result of the Welsh Government's investment of £800 million in new trains. Passengers using them, of course, in the south Wales Valleys can now make use as well of cheap convenient tickets thanks to the introduction of pay as you go. I believe that, so far, 150,000 passengers have taken advantage of this right across the 95 stations that constitute the south-east Wales metro.

And that's the cornerstone of our vision: making sure that we deliver metro-type rail services for post-industrial communities, making public transport affordable, integrated and available across the whole of Wales. It's the vision that will deliver in north Wales a metro-type system, and also one in Swansea bay and the western Valleys.

Can I thank Adam Price also for your particular mention of the global centre of rail excellence? I do believe this is a hugely important magnet project for the western Valleys. It was something that I thought up on a train journey in Spain with Welsh Government officials, but I do believe that this has potential to be a magnet for employment and investment.

In north Wales, we need to undertake numerous infrastructure projects, and they include removing the capacity backlog at Chester. There is a huge capacity block at Chester that needs to be dealt with. We need to also see improvements on the Wrexham to Bidston line to allow for higher frequency services, and ultimately direct services of a metro type between Wrexham and Liverpool. Carolyn Thomas identified post-industrial challenges that face much of north Wales, particularly in the north-east of Wales, where the likes of the Shotton steelworks closure led to an unprecedented number of people losing their jobs in the 1980s, and still that particular area bears the scars of the loss of huge numbers of jobs. I'm very grateful for the passion that Carolyn Thomas brings to championing the importance of public transport, not just in the region she represents, but the whole of Wales.

Now, in the Swansea bay and west Wales region, Transport for Wales, as I know many Members are aware, are carrying out development work on potential new stations on the south Wales main line at Cockett, Winch Wen and Landore, and on the Swansea district line, as Adam Price has identified, at Pontlliw, Felindre, Morriston and Llandarcy.

I think Luke Fletcher made a hugely important point about alternative and emerging technologies. Trackless autonomous trams are an example of these this new tech. They're already being rolled out in China and in Canada, and they are the latest example of technology that we must be alert to, because we could use different types of interventions across different communities in Wales.

Bus use amounts to three quarters of all public transport journeys, and they are an absolute lifeline for some of the most vulnerable and isolated and disadvantaged people in our society. That's because just under 20 per cent of people in Wales do not have access to a car. They depend on bus services day in, day out, and Adam Price is right: we are introducing an ambitious bus Bill that aims to deliver bus franchising precisely because it can help those who need the bus network most. We can and will in the future design a bus network that puts people first and allows us to integrate bus services fully with rail services.

It's not just traditional bus services that we've been supporting. We're also investing in innovative, community-led solutions. I can point to Blaenau Gwent as one area where we have such an innovation that Welsh Government are funding. It's a service that provides a mixture of a conventional scheduled service during daylight hours and then it switches to a pre-bookable, demand-responsive service in the evening. And we've also recently provided funding to enable community transport services to expand in the western Valleys of south Wales.

Many have pointed to the importance of track retention. This is something I'm very familiar with, with the gradual loss of the Llangollen to Ruabon rail link in my own constituency. I would very much like to see rail track preserved and protected for future use. What happened in past decades in terms of closing branch lines, closing stations is such a terrible loss, and we should do all we can, I believe, to protect the assets that are still in place, but are very, very fragile.

So, I'm proud of the measures that we've already put in place to improve public transport connectivity in our post-industrial communities, which deserve and require those interventions and heavy investment. We are absolutely committed to doing all we can across all regions of Wales, not just in terms of rail, but also in terms of bus services, including, Dirprwy Lywydd, in the western Valleys of Wales.

I thank Adam Price and the Cabinet Secretary, and that brings today's proceedings to a close.