National Assembly for Wales

Concerns have been raised by the film industry that funding provided through Pinewood and the Welsh Government is offered on commercial terms through the market economy investor principle, which has historically favoured more established companies based outside of Wales, and places smaller independent creators at a disadvantage. According to evidence submitted by Ffilm Cymru, freelancers and service and facility companies are still at risk following COVID, and many have been unable to access support mechanisms. The Oxford Economics report commissioned by the Creative Industries Federation showed that Wales is projected to lose 26 per cent of its creative jobs and see a 10 per cent drop in creative industries gross value added, so supporting the industry at its grass roots is important. Ffilm Cymru do great work to support independent film makers by providing grants and investment for small start-up production companies, ensuring that those skills remain in Wales, but it's important that they have the resources to provide this support to creators. The reduction in the lottery funding, which is delegated by the Arts Council of Wales, has also had a significant impact, and this is how Ffilm Cymru receives its funding, but they are keen to attract more philanthropic donations. So, I'd like to know what the Welsh Government is doing to encourage philanthropic donations to groups like Ffilm Cymru that support independent film makers, and what the Welsh Government is doing to attract international investment in the industry. Thank you.

Thanks very much. I know for a fact that the creative sector, and films and tv in particular, is a core part of what we were trying to promote in the international strategy. And I think, since that time, actually, we've seen the sector grow significantly in Wales. If you just look at 2023 alone, the creative sectors in Wales generated an annual turnover of £1.5 billion, and that was an increase of 10.6 per cent on the previous year. That is phenomenal growth and something that I think should be celebrated. Part of that was the 51 projects that we as a Government have supported, and of course we would encourage not just international investment, but also those philanthropic donations, as you suggested we should.

First Minister, firstly, if I can declare an interest, my son works as a freelancer in the film and tv industry. BECTU, the trade union that represents many of the freelancers, are saying that, despite some slight recovery post the strike and post COVID, 70 per cent of freelancers are currently out of employment. Many are actually leaving the industry completely, and, of course, many of them have very little access to any form of state benefits as they are, effectively, a self-employed freelancer, which causes a significant problem. One of the major problems, as I understand it from the trade union BECTU, is that many of the people in the industry who work as freelancers are often imported from outside Wales, so we’re not actually maximising the use of Welsh skills and so on, and that is a cultural problem within the industry itself. So, I’m wondering what can be done to refocus within Wales on the use of Welsh freelancers for productions that take place within Wales, but also the support that’s necessary to retain the skills in the industry.

Thanks very much. You’re quite right—I know that BECTU, which was my old union, made a suggestion that, in July 2024—. They carried out a report, and those working in the sector who were out of work was at about 68 per cent. From February to July, that had fallen to 52 per cent. So, it gives you some sense that there’s quite a lot of change going on, but 52 per cent is still phenomenally high. It is a very tough industry. The nature of much of the industry is that they take people on on a freelance basis. And, of course, we as a Government would always encourage any investors or any local companies to use Welsh freelancers. We have extremely talented freelancers here in Wales, and I don’t see why there is a need to import people from outside if we have those skills here in Wales.

Our current list of strategic road network infrastructure improvements is contained in the national transport delivery plan. Funding will also be made available to local authorities for local road repairs and fixing hundreds of potholes, as the people told me this was important to them during my listening exercise in north Wales.

Thank you for your response, First Minister. We know, after many years, the Heads of the Valleys road here in south Wales is reaching completion, as the most expensive road in Wales—around £2 billion-worth of spending. My residents in north Wales are asking where is the £2 billion-worth of spending on roads up in north Wales. We know that there’s a huge opportunity to unleash the economy of north Wales through investment on the A55, investment on the A483 around Wrexham in particular, and investment on a third crossing over to Ynys Môn to meet the needs of people on the island as well. So, First Minister, could you provide clarity as to when north Wales is going to receive the levels of investment needed to unleash the economy that is so desperately needed? Diolch yn fawr iawn.

Thanks very much, Sam. I can assure you that we are investing in the road infrastructure in north Wales. I’ll just give you some examples: the River Dee bridge replacement, which is not an insignificant investment; the Menai crossing resilience improvements; the Wrexham multimodal corridor improvements and city-centre connectivity. There is also £20 million-worth of funding to invest in transport priorities across the region, including in Denbighshire, Flintshire, Gwynedd, Wrexham and Ynys Môn.

Prif Weinidog, I welcome your comments just then about the investment in the River Dee bridge improvement. Actually, I'm old enough, sadly, to remember the infrastructure that predated the A55 and when it was so bad that, on a trip to our caravan in Anglesey, my mum could get out of the car, do a bit of shopping and then walk and reach us again still in the traffic jam going through Conwy. But that said, today, the A55 remains the main gateway into north Wales and is a crucial connection for residents and visitors alike, one that is also a key component for the economic infrastructure for our part of the country. There are things we can do to improve and enhance this existing road infrastructure that would both address so-called pinch-points and also bring broader benefits. Felly, Prif Weinidog, could I urge the Welsh Government, perhaps in partnership with the UK Government and, of course, involving local decision makers, to prioritise consideration for practical and innovative improvement to the A55, such as looking at crawler lanes around the Halkin area, measures to mitigate accidents and also alleviating the knock-on impacts of breakdowns, which is currently an issue for many? Diolch.

Thank you very much, Hannah, and I know your commitment to speaking up for the people in your area when it comes to transport, and what is important, I think, is for us to recognise that there are still pinch-points, as you say. What’s going to happen next is that the regional transport plans are going to be developed, providing a strategic approach, and they’re going to—. What we’re going to see is joined-up working at a regional level, and the corporate joint committees are currently drafting their plans. So, it’s about bringing those authorities together, getting them to make sure that they work with our technical advice officials to make sure that they get the support they need in developing these plans and to make sure that they also align with the Wales transport strategy.

Diolch, Llywydd. First Minister, do you agree with the growing chorus of voices, including the Labour MP for Rochdale, the Labour MP for Rotherham and the Labour mayor of Greater Manchester, that we need a new UK-wide inquiry into child sexual exploitation by grooming gangs?

Thanks. First of all, I think, it is important, when we’re discussing sensitive issues like this, that we think first of the victims, and many have endured dreadful abuse, and I think it’s really important we stand with them and by them when we seek justice. I think it’s really disappointing that this issue has been politicised to a point where people working for humanitarian organisations and children in school feel threatened, and I really hope we can tone down the rhetoric on this issue.

With respect, First Minister, you didn’t answer my question, which was, 'Do you support the calls, which have been made by many people, including those victims, that we do need to listen carefully to—do you support the calls—for a new UK-wide inquiry into grooming gangs and child exploitation as well?' We know that people up and down Wales are talking about this issue. They need assurances that both the Welsh and UK Governments, along with the police and social services, are doing all that they can to prevent young girls in Wales from becoming victims of grooming gangs. They want to know that justice will be served against the perpetrators of these crimes, but they can only have those assurances if we know the full extent of the problems that we have here in Wales and the actions that are being taken by everybody to address them. So, can I ask you, in addition to that first question, which you didn’t answer, what communications has the Welsh Government had with the police, with Welsh local authority social care departments and with other stakeholders regarding grooming gangs operating here in Wales and the estimated number of Welsh victims? And will you publish the correspondence between the Welsh Government and those organisations in order to prevent any allegations that might be made of a cover-up?

I can see what’s happening here; I’m disappointed, but I will answer your question. The Welsh Government fully supported the previous independent inquiry into child sexual abuse and we are, on the back of that, developing a 10-year strategy for preventing and responding to child sexual abuse. The author of that report made it very clear that her interest was in making sure that the recommendations of that report were actioned, and I can assure you that several of those recommendations have already been implemented here in Wales.

First Minister, you’ve talked about a 10-year action plan. People want, of course, rapid action. There have been recommendations made to the Welsh Government. I asked you two specific questions. You haven't now answered the second question, which was about what correspondence has taken place between the Welsh Government, Welsh police forces, Welsh local authorities and other stakeholders about the extent of these issues, because people need those assurances.

Now, it's very clear to me that you're not able to provide those assurances today, and that, I'm afraid, is a national scandal. We know from media reports—[Interruption.] We know from media reports that young girls have been recruited by grooming gangs here in south Wales before being gang-raped and then trafficked to Telford, Hereford and Blackpool. One victim has even said that she was strangled, she was threatened with a knife, and her home was threatened with being burned down. She was then raped, I'm afraid to say, First Minister, 1,000 times. She didn't know the number of perpetrators, because there were so many.

I do need you to come to your question now. You are being overly descriptive, and I think verging on not being totally respectful of the victim at this point. So, can you tone down the rhetoric slightly and— 

I'm afraid I'm simply reading facts, Llywydd—

No. No, you're not. No, you're not. The use of language in this place needs to make sure that you are keeping well away from inflaming any kind of discrimination or inciting any kind of discrimination. You were doing well, Darren Millar, with your first two questions in avoiding that; in your third one, you've become overly descriptive, and I need you to now reflect on that and just ask the question again, please.

I am not seeking to inflame anything—

Good. I'm glad you've confirmed that. 

I'm trying to hold the Welsh Government to account.

I'm glad you've confirmed that. Now carry on with your question. 

Yes. So, we know that some of the things that have been described by victims have been absolutely sickening. We know that those things have taken place—young girls in Wales—

Okay. Question.

—in terms of recruitment by grooming gangs in Wales.

Question. Darren Millar, I ask you for your question.

So we need to know that these things—we don't have another Rotherham or Rochdale on our doorstep.

Darren Millar, you are keeping to your script now and you're not listening to my advice. If you do not ask your question in the next 10 seconds, I'm going to ask you to sit down. I did not expect to have to do this to you in your first few weeks as leader of the Welsh Conservative Party in here.

My question is this: given that you oppose a UK-wide inquiry, given that we haven't had the assurances that I've sought from you today, and given the extent of public concern, will you now commission a Wales-wide inquiry into child sexual exploitation by grooming gangs here in Wales?

Darren, I've got to say that I'm really disappointed in you. I wasn't expecting you to take on that kind of approach. This is something, I think, where we've got to remember the victims and remember them in a way that will be supportive. And I don't think that what we've seen in the past few days has been a place where they would feel supported. Now, I can make it clear to you that I have asked questions about to what extent this is an issue in Wales of the police. I think that what is important is that we recognise that, actually, in Wales, we have legislated. There are duties in Wales to report, which were introduced back in 2014. You may not be aware of this, Darren, but this was a part of the Social Services and Well-being (Wales) Act 2014. There is a legal duty on agencies, including health boards, including police, probation and other local authorities to inform the local authority if they have reasonable cause to suspect that a child, or an adult with care and support needs, in their area is at risk of abuse, neglect or harm. That's in our law. It already exists. 

Diolch yn fawr. I think it's important that there's a recognition that there's been a 65 per cent reduction in the waiting times for those waiting over two years, so we are making significant improvements. I know that that extra money that's come into the health service, the £50 million, that that will start to make a big difference soon.

I have in fact looked at your proposals, and there is not one that we're not already implementing. Local treatment centres, executive triage service—well, you just put the word 'executive' in front of 'triage service'; I don't know how that works—and then the use of technology to get patients treated quicker. Really? We're doing all that already. It's all in our strategy that was developed seven years ago.

I want to move on to something that may on the face of it seem unconnected, but it most certainly isn't. The way we engage with our culture can have a direct impact on our well-being as a nation, including on our health. Access to culture shouldn't be seen as a 'nice to have'. In fact, our cultural heritage is something we celebrate in music, in theatre, in dance, in literature, in Welsh and in English. The land of song—even our national anthem celebrates it, 'gwlad beirdd a chantorion’. And we should build on our strengths as well. The cultural sector employs 80,000 people in Wales, but the lack of Government support for the sector is deeply worrying.

Now, that lack of support led last week to one individual stepping in to do Government's work for it. The recent withdrawal of support for Wales's national English language theatre company saw Michael Sheen deciding he had no choice but to do it himself—typical of a man who has become known for his deep commitment to Wales and to Welsh culture. Now, can the First Minister say whether she felt a sense of shame that the lack of her Government support for culture had led to this, and, if so, what does she plan to do differently from now on, or is she looking to other individuals to whom she can outsource the work of Government?

Well, thanks very much. Being in Government means you need to make tough decisions and you need to prioritise, and we took some tough decisions last year when it came to culture, and we decided that we needed to put more money into the health service. Because you've just been talking about the need to bring waiting lists down. That doesn't happen by magic—you need money for it, and you need to make tough decisions. That's what being in Government means. And they were difficult decisions, because we are committed to the culture of our nation, and that's why, as soon as we had additional money, we've put more money in this financial year, and we've put more money in for next year. On top of that, I think it's probably worth emphasising things like the national music service. This is culture—£13 million gone into making sure that we have this focus on music in schools. These are difficult decisions, but, again, we want to invest in the cultural future of our children.

I went to see the production of Nye that Michael Sheen was in. It was an outstanding production, and I did come out of there thinking, 'Which one would he choose?' Because he was pushing the fact that the NHS was important, but we have to make those decisions that are very difficult. I pay tribute to Michael Sheen. He's been a real champion of Wales, and that production and his commitment to show Wales through artistic expression is something that we welcome, and, obviously, the Arts Council of Wales will want to see whether, once this develops a bit further, they will want to support his project.

I find it troubling that the First Minister doesn't feel a sense of shame or regret about this, and she seems to be in denial about the impact that Government decisions have had, and this certainly isn't something that was about a tough spending round last year. The truth is that, under successive Labour Governments, Wales has slipped to the bottom of the European league table on cultural spend. The arts council will get less money in the next financial year than it did two years ago. European countries on average spend 1.5 per cent of their budgets on culture. Here, the arts council budget is 0.15 per cent. Culture in total, and sport, added together, is only half a percentage point. Listen to Noel Mooney, chief executive of the Football Association of Wales this week, responding to the Senedd culture committee's report on spending:

'This race to the bottom',

as he called it, and

'lack of vision, desire and ability needs to stop today. Have ambition, be innovative, have courage, make it happen and success will come.'

'Please. For Wales.'

So, to the First Minister of Wales, please, for Wales, will she map out a pathway to investing in our culture at at least the European average, or is she willing to see Wales becoming a cultural backwater on her watch?

So, I think it's really important for us to recognise that, as I say, decisions have to be made. There's an allocation for this financial year of £30 million to the Arts Council of Wales, and there was that additional money that came in, as I suggested. But, on top of this, we've given job protection funding, resilience funding—an extra £1 million in resilience fund to support organisation resilience—and a pay award for £64,000 to support an average pay award within the Arts Council of Wales of up to 5 per cent. These things don't come for free. I recognise how important culture and the arts is. I absolutely do. But we do have to balance that off against really difficult decisions, and we have kept most of the money in the arts and culture, but we did need, in a time of inflation, at a time when austerity was biting, to make difficult decisions, after 14 years, of where we needed to prioritise our funding, and the public were clear. They wanted us to spend it in health, and that's what we did.

The independent inquiry into child sexual abuse in England and Wales examined how the country's institutions handled their duty of care to protect children from sexual abuse. As the UK Prime Minister has stated, our focus needs to be on implementing its recommendations. In Wales, progress on this, as I've already said, has been made.

Thank you for that answer, First Minister. Could you explain how the recommendations of the Professor Jay report are being implemented here in Wales and taken forward, because they are an important part of the landscape to offer that protection? But could you also, as you didn't respond to the leader of the opposition, give clarity to supporting your Labour colleagues, Andy Burnham and the small caucus of Labour MPs who are calling for a national inquiry, so that the dots can be joined up and those protections can be offered across the whole of the United Kingdom?

So, as I say, we already have an organisational legal duty, which was one of the recommendations of that independent inquiry, so we already have that in place. We have a 10-year strategy for preventing and responding to child sexual abuse, and that's going to further address matters raised by the inquiry—for example, effective data collection, improving public awareness and understanding of child sexual abuse. There are four strands to this strategy—so, this is not something that's a pipe dream; this is something that Jane Hutt has been working on very hard— prevention, protection, supporting children, young people and their families, and supporting adult survivors. And key to this is that we engage with key partners and stakeholders to review existing safeguarding systems in Wales.

There is something deeply disturbing and distasteful about the former leader of the opposition using heavily edited images of young schoolgirls in order to prosecute a case that is dripping with racism and prejudice. That should have no place in this Parliament or in our political debate, and I believe that most decent people in Wales will condemn both Andrew R.T. Davies and the Welsh Conservatives for the way in which they have pursued these issues. It is deeply disturbing that racism is becoming the language of prejudice for the Welsh Conservatives and we need to stand against that. [Interruption.]

Do you agree with me, First Minister—[Interruption.] Do you agree with me—[Interruption.] I've got a louder voice than you. Do you agree with me, First Minister, that we have to put the interests of victims first, and we must also protect those people who are working hard with refugees, reaching out to people who have suffered appalling distress across the world, and who come here for a safe haven? We need to protect those people, and we need to put the victims first, second and third, and not use people in order to make somewhat sleazy political points.

Look, I think it's really important that we do all we can to unite our society rather than divide it.

First Minister, next week, Donald Trump will be inaugurated as the next President of the United States and I'm sure the Welsh and UK Governments will want to work closely together to ensure the British and Welsh values are made clear to the incoming President, particularly as you previously mentioned how close the relationship is between you and President Trump. 

However, we've seen deeply concerning reports in the media yesterday that showed that Trump's plans for tariffs on British businesses exporting to America could cost British industry £2.5 billion, and, shamefully, instead of advocating for British business, the Reform leader, Nigel Farage, spent his summer following Trump around America actively advocating against the interests of British business and our economy. So, will you join with me and the Welsh Conservatives, First Minister, in advocating for Welsh businesses on the international stage, rather than trying to sell away our economic interests like Reform and Farage seek to do?

Thanks very much. I think we've got to get ready for an interesting ride when we see a new President inaugurated in the United States next week. Tariffs, clearly, would be very harmful to our businesses in Wales, and they would inevitably lead to job losses, so I think they are something that we need to take very seriously, which is why I'm very pleased that I've accepted a request to meet with the new ambassador from the United Kingdom who will be going to the United States to make the case for how important a market the United States is for Wales, how important it is that we can drive further investment from the United States into Wales, and that we can also encourage exports, ideally without a tariff.

Wales is a small country of about 3 million people, but we really punch above our weight when it comes to sharing our culture, our language and our values, whether we choose to live here or are born here. Wales is full of wonderful communities, kind, caring people who help their neighbours—look what happened during the pandemic—helping Ukrainian refugees. We have marvellous agricultural shows and eisteddfodau. I'm really proud to be part of Wales and to live here. St David's Day is a really good day for promoting our Welsh values across the world, and I was wondering what the Welsh Government is doing to promote Wales and our wonderful values across the world on St David's Day and around that day. Thank you.

Great, thanks very much, Carolyn, and I know how keen you are to promote Wales, not just here, but internationally as well. I'm afraid I went early when it came to Wales and Japan's international relationship. Can I apologise for my warbling? I think I just killed the reputation of Wales as the land of song. But I do think it is important that Wales and the Welsh Government use our national day as a platform to raise our profile internationally. One of the things that I've done recently is to make sure I've written to the foreign Secretary to make sure that they take their responsibility seriously in promoting Wales as well. So, in many countries, we have a Welsh representation co-located with the UK Government, but there are many, many places where, clearly, we haven't got the resources for that to happen across the world. The UK Government have a responsibility to represent us, so I've written to him, asking him if he could make sure that every embassy takes that opportunity to promote Wales on St David's Day and at other times of the year.

Through sustained capital investment in our education facilities, a new Curriculum for Wales and a continuous focus on the quality of teaching, we're working in partnership with local authorities to improve educational outcomes in south-east Wales.

Thank you for the response, First Minister. Last week, in our Children, Young and Education Committee, the Government's mental health Minister revealed that the number of children waiting for an autism or attention deficit hyperactivity disorder assessment in Wales would triple over the next two years. Between 41,000 and 61,000 people could be waiting for an assessment by March 2027. In comparison, there were 20,717 children waiting for assessment in September last year. I'm sure that you'll agree, First Minister, receiving a diagnosis is key to unlocking extra support for pupils, which, in turn, improves educational outcomes for our youngsters. First Minister, it's clear there's a real crisis within additional learning needs waiting times, which currently is leaving a lot of students in limbo. So, what support will the Welsh Government be providing to Welsh schools to help them cope in light of the warning that the number waiting for a diagnosis is expected to triple in upcoming years? Thank you.

Thanks very much. We're very aware that the waiting times for children's neurological assessments are too long. That's why, in November, we announced an additional £3 million to speed up those assessments. We know that more needs to be done and we know that demand is going through the roof, so we have to think carefully and creatively about how we make these assessments in a different way. And there was a very successful event organised by the NHS Wales Executive, an accelerated design event, at the end of last year, where we got all the professionals in to try and reimagine what that pathway could look like, and I do think it is important in these circumstances to be creative. We're very aware that youngsters need support, that their families need support and that's why we've put in that additional funding.

Can I thank Mabon for bringing this question forward? Many of my constituents are concerned about the impact of landslides, as many of yours will be, and the effect on their communities. As you will know, First Minister, the landslip on the A40 is just one example, causing months and months of traffic congestion, leading to huge disruption and frustration, as well as damaging our economy. Other recent examples include the Wye valley, for instance. We had years of disruption, with two or three landslips in the Wye valley, and the impact that that on our tourism industry as well.

So, clearly, we need to be more proactive in identifying possible areas of risk—and I heard what you said about what you are doing already—and find a way of assessing the dangers of the hillsides and the valleys. With this in mind, Cabinet Secretary, what action is the Welsh Government undertaking to ensure that there is a joined-up approach between public services and agencies when it comes to assessing and proactively identifying the potential dangers of hillsides, and having a more joined-up and speedy resolution where these happen? Often, the various agencies don't seem to be working fast enough together, and we have these protracted, huge periods of time where nothing seems to be getting done. Thank you. 

Thanks very much. As I said to Mabon, we do, in fact, inspect 200 km regularly, and 75 km very proactively. We have two strategic road network agents—one in north and mid Wales, and one in south Wales—and there are around 500 employees in both of those areas. They work with local authorities.

What is important, I think, is to make sure that, in agreements with agents on trunk road maintenance, they know what needs to be done regularly. But I think that if you look at what happened in Corris and the speed at which that was turned around, that was an exemplar, particularly over the Christmas holiday.

Again, I’d like to thank those people who go out in those really difficult conditions. As I say, climate change is impacting on our communities, on our way of life, and on our road infrastructure, and somebody has to be there to ensure that we can mitigate as much as possible when those dangers occur. 

First Minister, you are our representative from Wales to the UK Labour Government. We know that the UK Labour Government has actually made people here in Wales much poorer. The winter fuel allowance, now means tested, has left over 500,000 Welsh pensioners without that critical lifeline. The two-child benefit cap, which you and your Cabinet branded as the greatest driver of child poverty, has been cruelly maintained, leaving 65,000 children here in poverty in Wales. And national insurance hikes are burdening charities like Tenovus Cancer Care with an annual £250,000 bill, when they are actually helping people who are living in poverty.

You assured us that you would champion Wales. The fact is that the UK Government is not looking at hiking taxes for the top 1 per cent of people, and you are not prepared to move forward on the devolution of the Crown Estate. We know that that would deliver the £22 billion hole that you talk about that the UK Government has been left in. So, please, could you tell us, when you met with Keir Starmer to tell him that you wanted those benefits to be restored, what his response was? Diolch yn fawr iawn.

Thank you. My job is to account for what we do in Wales in terms of addressing poverty. As I say, we spend a not inconsiderable sum on addressing this issue. We have a child poverty strategy. We've had a single advice fund, which has helped 280,000 people claim £137 million, which is not a small amount of money. I think part of what we need to do as a Government is to make sure that people pick up what they're entitled to. There are tens of thousands of people in our country who are not picking up the money that they're entitled to. We also have a discretionary assistance fund for those people who are in crisis and in difficulty. We make massive contributions in relation to council tax reductions, and, obviously, we have free school meals and the school essentials grant. We have a long, long list of what we do in Wales to help address the issue of poverty.

First Minister, the best way of supporting people living in poverty is to prevent them entering poverty in the first place. The former Labour Prime Minister Tony Blair, speaking on the Jimmy's Jobs of the Future podcast, said that far too many people were self-diagnosing mental health conditions. He stated that you have got to be careful of translating challenges into a mental health condition and losing your own agency to govern your own life:

'Life has its up and downs and everybody experiences those. And you’ve got to be careful of encouraging people to think they’ve got some sort of condition other than simply confronting the challenges of life.'

Mr Blair said that this was forcing people into the benefits system. First Minister, do you agree with your former leader, and, if so, what steps are you taking to increase resilience in the future workforce? Thank you.

Thanks very much. I think it is important that we build resilience, but I think it's also important for us to recognise that some people have really tough lives, and they need support. That's what we try and do as a Government: put that support in. And we put it right from the word 'go'. From the moment that we hear someone's pregnant, we put the support in; we put it in when it comes to Sure Start, Flying Start and all of those support measures. At the beginning of life, we put that support in, when they go to school. You just look at what we're doing in relation to mental health support—it's quite extraordinary, frankly, the way we have now support in our schools. And the waiting lists, by the way, for mental health support have come down massively. It's really important that people recognise those huge strides that have been made in relation to child mental health support. It's also important to recognise that we have a '111 press 2' service here in Wales that doesn't exist elsewhere. So, we are putting that support in to build resilience. And of course, when it comes to poverty, the key thing is to see what we can do to get people back into work. We need to strengthen the opportunities for people to get into work, and that's why we're making sure that there are good jobs available that will satisfy people. That's why I'm working with the economy Minister and others to make sure that we can produce those jobs that are more fulfilling for people, because I think that is also a factor to consider.

Welsh health boards are responsible for commissioning services from a range of providers. Powys Teaching Health Board has received an additional £7 million this year to support delivery in light of ongoing challenges with demand for services and to reduce waiting times.

First Minister, should it be the case that patients from Wales could be sat in the same hospital, being seen by the same consultant as a patient living in England, and being told by that consultant, 'You will have to wait considerably longer because you are a Welsh patient'? Should that be the case, even though that consultant would also confirm to the patient that there is capacity to see them much earlier?

First Minister, you tell us that one of your four priority areas is reducing NHS waiting lists. Given that this is your priority, given that ultimately you are responsible for ensuring that Welsh patients are treated in a timely manner, I would assume you will not tell me that this is somebody else's responsibility. Will you provide Powys Teaching Health Board with the financial support they require to avoid their planned increases in cross-border treatment waiting times or instruct them that this simply is not acceptable?

Thank you very much. As you know, as a Government we've got a real focus on bringing in particular those long waiting lists down, and we expect Powys to play its part in that as well. It is not acceptable for a situation like the one you painted to occur. I'm pleased to see that the board is taking its responsibility seriously in terms of the need to behave seriously when it comes to balancing the books, but I'm also very pleased to see that they have deferred the decision on this matter, and I'm sure that conversations will continue in the Welsh Government.

Trefnydd, I'd like to ask for two statements, please. First, I'd like to ask for a statement on the outbreak of foot and mouth disease in Germany. There are an awful lot of farmers across the country concerned about what this means for the United Kingdom and for farmers in Wales. So, I'd welcome an update from the Welsh Government on what work you're doing with DEFRA around the control of foot and mouth and to stop it coming into the United Kingdom.

I'd also like to ask for a statement, Trefnydd, from the health Secretary about the recent Audit Wales report on cancer services in Wales. The report is nothing short of alarming. It reveals that, since August 2020, not a single health board has met the target of 75 per cent of patients commencing treatment within 62 days of suspected cancer. In fact, between August 2023 and August 2024, only 53 per cent to 61 per cent of patients were treated within this critical time frame. The report goes into an awful lot more detail about the shortcomings of cancer treatment right the way across Wales. So, I'm calling for an urgent statement from the Welsh Government on what immediate actions you will be taking to rectify these appalling shortcomings and ensure that cancer patients across Wales receive the timely and effective care that they deserve.

Thank you very much, James Evans. In response to your first question, Welsh Ministers are aware of the single case of foot and mouth disease in Germany. The chief veterinary officer and officials are working closely with the UK Government. The Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Secretary for Climate Change and Rural Affairs is clearly working closely with the UK Government to protect our livestock following this unfortunate news. But I can also feed back that the UK Government are clearly in close contact with German authorities to understand the outbreak and respond appropriately. But to assure you—and I speak on behalf of the Deputy First Minister—we've got robust contingency plans in place to manage the risk of this disease to protect farmers and our food security, which means using all measures to limit the risk of incursion and the spread of this devastating disease. [Interruption.] I'm coming on to your second question. Please respect the process here. Diolch yn fawr.

Thank you very much for your second question, James Evans. The First Minister has responded this afternoon. We welcome the findings of the Audit Wales report and also the acknowledgement—I heard him, as you may have done, on the radio this morning—by the auditor general of our clear commitment to high-quality cancer care. That came through very strongly from the report. The key challenge the auditor general has identified is in terms of the need to increase NHS capacity to meet the rising demand for cancer investigation and treatment. As you know and have heard, we're absolutely focused on working with the NHS to improve access to diagnosis and treatment as part of our target for 75 per cent of those diagnosed to begin treatment within 62 days of when their cancer is first suspected. And to respond to the scale of this challenge, we're putting in place a more co-ordinated national leadership arrangement for all the different actions that are required to improve cancer services.

Diolch yn fawr. Well, that is entirely the priority, again, of the Minister for culture and sport. You're absolutely right—following the Euros, let's celebrate; we need to recognise and give the opportunity for the Senedd to do so. So, I know that that will be forthcoming in terms of our business statement. Diolch yn fawr. Thank you.

I want to ask for two statements, which are related. The first is on the use of local windfarms and solar farms to power large energy users. We have an example at Morriston Hospital, where a high proportion of their electrical energy needs are met by a local solar farm. Can this be replicated elsewhere? The structure of the grid is based upon electricity being created at a power station, and, via substations, being delivered to users. What has the Government done to support the creation of local grids like the one around Morriston Hospital?

The second is about the creation of large-scale data storage centres in Wales. They involve collecting, storing, processing, distributing and allowing access to a large amount of data. Often called 'the cloud', this is where large quantities of data are stored. More companies are moving storage to the cloud, meaning that, rather than running or storing them in our own home or work computers, we access them via the host server of a cloud provider. The cloud is a very high energy user, and if we create large amounts of energy from offshore wind, instead of moving it through mid and west Wales, it can be used for creating data centres on the west Wales coast. Ireland has got well ahead of us now. Is this the time for the Welsh Government to start catching up, because there's an awful lot of money going to be available for this in the future?

Thank you very much, Mike Hedges. Isn't it important that we have, you have, this opportunity to raise these questions and actually enlighten us on developments that we should be aware of? You refer to how Morriston Hospital is connected with their local solar farm. I understand it is the solar development on Brynwhilach Farm that's linked to Morriston, by a 3 km private wire. That was built with the support of the Welsh Government energy service and the Wales funding programme loan scheme, set up by the Welsh Government to decarbonise the public sector by 2030. It is a repayable loan, a £5.7 million repayable loan, on an invest-to-save basis. But it's so important, as you say, in terms of the savings—1,000 tonnes of carbon and £500,000 per year in bills, and the surplus generation sold. You've made these points so clearly, and I want to thank you for that, and repeat what you've outlined. But we're committed to hosting enough generation in Wales to meet our needs by 2035, and keep pace as demand increases. And we are supporting this. Analysis for future grids for Wales shows that demand might almost triple by 2050. So, I thank you again for raising this, and the Welsh Government energy service is promoting this with public bodies appropriately.

Thank you also for your second question. This really does relate to the opportunities for Wales, doesn't it, in terms of offshore wind power, and then last week we had the statement from the Cabinet Secretary on the offshore wind task and finish group. That really is going to maximise opportunities, and that group will provide a clear direction to attract lasting economic value. I understand that the first meeting was held on 13 January, and the first array of offshore wind was off the coast of north Wales. That's going to help the port of Mostyn, and also, just in terms of taking this forward, the numerous industry events promoting the flow opportunity in the Celtic sea.

Trefnydd, I’d like to call for an up-to-date statement from the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Secretary for Climate Change and Rural Affairs regarding efforts to improve water quality across Wales. It’s crucial that the Welsh Government works with water companies, and indeed Natural Resources Wales, to tackle pollution from sewage discharges and storm overflows. It’s also crucial that work is being done to improve our water infrastructure too.

I appreciate that, as a Government, you have made statements over the last six months on some aspects of this issue. However, in November, research by the Cleddau Project in my consistency revealed that almost 56,000 cu m of raw sewage was discharged into a special area of conservation on the River Cleddau, and local residents right across Pembrokeshire continued to contact me about sewage discharges onto local beaches. Therefore, I’d be grateful if we could have an up-to-date statement from the Government on the actions that are now being taken to improve water quality here in Wales, so that my constituents and indeed people right across Wales can understand what work is taking place to address this issue, and so they can be assured that this matter is being prioritised by the Welsh Government.

Thank you very much, Paul Davies. It’s really helpful that you bring to our attention the efforts of local communities as well in terms of monitoring. You’ve drawn attention to that community effort for the River Cleddau, but we know that it is taking place across Wales in many of our constituencies. The Deputy First Minister has heard that call for an update, really, in terms of ways in which we are, with the powers that we have, which aren’t inclusive of all opportunity—how our Welsh companies are improving water quality. I’m sure the Deputy First Minister will consider the best way to respond to that question.

I call for a statement, please, on the adequacy of hospital services in the south-east. The Rhymney valley doesn’t have an A&E, it doesn’t have a general hospital, and when the miners hospital was closed in Caerphilly those communities were promised a new general hospital. That was, as I understand, originally planned for. Even the road signs for the new hospital in Ystrad Mynach had said 'general hospital and accident and emergency'. But for reasons I’ve never been able to understand, that hospital was downgraded and we have a minor injuries unit there only. It means patients who have this very large hospital on their doorstep still have to travel for miles to other hospitals in Cwmbran, Abergavenny for different appointments. Most depressingly, they have to travel for miles in an emergency, and I get casework about this almost every single week, actually, particularly when there are times of very, very horrendously long waits for ambulances. There are surely safety implications that arise from that decision not to give that new hospital, when it was built, an A&E. So, I would call for a statement, please, in response to that. I realise, of course, that there are many issues here that are for the health board, but in terms of looking at the provision of particularly emergency care for that valley, I’d appreciate a statement, please. Diolch.

Diolch, Delyth Jewell. And, of course, you will have the opportunity to raise this with the Cabinet Secretary for Health and Social Care during his oral Senedd questions. But it is important that, again, you draw attention to the needs of your constituents. And as you say, it is for Aneurin Bevan health board, and I’m sure that if you haven’t done so already you will be raising this with them as well in terms of their delivery of services in the area.

Good afternoon, Trefnydd. I’d like to call for a statement, if I may, from the Cabinet Secretary for Transport and North Wales. It’s with regard to flooding in Llanwrtyd Wells. I visited at the weekend for a public meeting to discuss the devastating impact of a recent flood, which is actually coming off the main road, the trunk road, in the town. Just to give a bit of context, there’s a broken culvert, broken pipes throughout the village, causing significant damage. And on the night of the flood, 1 January, the storm drains were overflowing, and I’m afraid households were witnessing sinkholes opening up in their gardens. In one sad situation, I visited a family with a 12 foot sinkhole in their back garden. It got filled with water and the 8-year-old little girl let the family dog out, forgetting that the sinkhole was full of water and, sadly, their dog drowned. And this is obviously a very sad story, but the town actually feels abandoned. Nobody has been to see them. I’m liaising with the trunk road agency, but I wondered if you could also bring pressure in order for those people to have some reassurance that something is being done. Diolch yn fawr iawn.

Thank you very much indeed, Jane Dodds. And can we think of those who have been affected obviously in terms of your area, in Llanwrtyd Wells? The impact of those recent floods you brought to life, the impact on that town, is very clear and we think of the families who have been affected, particularly the story of the sad loss of that family pet as a result of the sinkhole. Now, I understand there are several issues ongoing in Llanwrtyd Wells following on from the storms and local land ownership issues. So, I hope you can relay this to your constituents that we are aware of these issues, we are mindful of Llanwrtyd Wells and the impact of the floods. So, the Welsh Government’s strategic road network division intends to meet with local residents next week to discuss options to resolve some of the issues, and the strategic road network division alongside their agents are investigating the cause of the opened-up carriageway on the A483 and intend to carry out necessary repairs at the earliest opportunity, but I’ve also asked if our officials could meet with you, Jane, next week, to go through these issues.

Cabinet Secretary, can I please request a Government statement about the process of issuing death certificates here in Wales? The reason why I ask is that I’ve encountered a lot of different cases, but I’m going to share one here with you today. A constituent of mine sadly passed away on 26 November 2024, at the University Hospital of Wales. Following my constituent's death, the family were understandably devastated and grieving, yet were faced with a truly unacceptable and completely avoidable situation. For many weeks, the family were unable to have their loved one’s body released, because the hospital could not get a doctor to sign the death certificate. And when the hospital did manage to sign the death certificate, it was not completed correctly and therefore was rejected. Thankfully, all the necessary paperwork was completed just before Christmas, but not without a great deal of stress and pain being inflicted on the family, so much so that my constituent’s widow suffered a stroke, couldn’t attend her husband’s funeral and has since passed away. And yet again the family face an unacceptably long wait for a certificate in relation to her death and were told that there was a significant backlog and it will take some time. Cabinet Secretary, the last thing families need when dealing with a bereavement is having to go through something like this, and, as someone who’s gone through it myself, I know exactly how heartbreaking it can be. I appreciate that I have just quoted one case for you, but there are many more out there like this. Therefore, it is clear that the current system isn’t working effectively, so a statement from the Welsh Government outlining what action it will take to prevent other families from going through something similar would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.

Thank you very much, Natasha Asghar. And thank you for raising this very sensitive but very important issue for families, and you have told of us of one family who’ve experienced this. Obviously, we would regret those delays. I will have to raise this with the Cabinet Secretary for Health and Social Care to identify how this is being addressed in terms of delays and waits for the death certificates. But, yes, again, this is an opportunity, I’m sure, for you to be able to raise this—because it will be managed operationally locally—I’m sure with health boards, as well as, indeed, to see if there is an overall picture from the Cabinet Secretary.

Diolch yn fawr, Llyr, and thank you for drawing this again to our attention in the Senedd, the impact of changes on our commercial broadcasting, but particularly impacting on Welsh language, Welsh-medium broadcasting. I'm sure that the culture committee has been addressing this. There are some aspects of this that won't be devolved, but that's where we need to look at where we are with our commitments to look at broadcasting. So, we'll seek to update you in terms of where we are now on the advisory work that has been undertaken. Diolch. 

Trefnydd, I would like to request a statement from the Cabinet Secretary for Health and Social Care regarding the role of public information campaigns in the health prevention agenda. The NHS is facing yet another terrible winter, with ambulances parked up outside every major hospital. People are waiting days for emergency care and staff are overworked and overstretched. Whilst many of the problems facing our hospitals are systemic, a lot of the pressure is preventable. The scientific literature tells us that the cold weather increases the risk of heart attacks. We know that the winter months see a dramatic increase in the number of respiratory illnesses, but we can, as individuals, take steps to lessen the risk to our own health, the health of others and, at the same time, reduce the burden on our NHS. Those at risk of heart attacks can take steps to avoid the shocks that cold weather places on their heart by wrapping up, staying warm and avoiding outdoor activities when it is particularly cold. We can all take measures to stop spreading respiratory viruses from simple hand washing to staying home when sick. But people need to be made aware of these simple measures. A poster in a doctor's surgery or a hospital waiting room is too little, too late. We need co-ordinated health prevention messages to be delivered to members of the public. Therefore, Trefnydd, I would be grateful if the Cabinet Secretary for health could make a statement to the Chamber, outlining how the Welsh Government plans to get across the information about staying safe during winter. Diolch yn fawr.

Diolch yn fawr, Altaf Hussain. Thank you for your question, based also, I'm sure, very much on your clinical experience as well. Of course, this does very much relate to how we prepare for winter pressures, and the Cabinet Secretary made that statement last week. And it is a holistic approach. It does include, obviously, those preventative measures that we can all take. Thank you for sharing those with us. Just to date, this winter, as you've acknowledged, the NHS experienced record levels of demand on ambulance services, largely driven by breathing difficulty-related calls, actually linked particularly to the cold snaps—we're coming out of one of those cold snaps—but also those high levels of patients with flu and respiratory needs as well. But I think that it is important that we look at the preventative message. I'm grateful that you have raised it with us today.

I'd like to ask for a statement, please, Trefnydd, on how the Welsh Government is ensuring the safety of those third sector organisations that support work central to the nation of sanctuary plan and the 'Anti-racist Wales Action Plan', such as the Welsh Refugee Council, following the deliberate spreading of misinformation on social media by the far right over the weekend, amplified by Elon Musk, and worryingly a Conservative Member of this Senedd. Staff of the Welsh Refugee Council have suffered abuse, harassment and threats, and have had to involve the police. As well as this being horrendous, disgraceful and unacceptable, it does raise concerns about how organisations such as the Welsh Refugee Council are safeguarded, as we see an intensifying of racism and cynical and dangerous attempts to divide our communities and turn people on one another. I want to put on record Plaid Cymru's full support for the Welsh Refugee Council and the work they do, supporting sanctuary seekers and refugees, fostering understanding and promoting inclusion in our communities. We cannot let their work be undermined, nor their safety, nor the safety of those they are supporting, to be compromised.

I'm aware, of course, of the irresponsible and false claims made over the weekend about the Welsh Refugee Council, claims that are untrue and utterly irresponsible. The video that was used on social media alluded to claims that were produced by a group of pupils wanting to show their school as a welcoming place for all, and the video itself that was used was more than a year old. It was withdrawn in 2023 as a result of misinformed abuse received by the school and the Welsh Refugee Council, and taking that action was deemed necessary to safeguard the pupils and staff. 

How can we be in this position where young people and our partners—registered charities and the third sector—end up being treated in this way? So, recirculating this misinformation poses fresh safeguarding risks to our stakeholders and, indeed, to young people—stakeholders like the Welsh Refugee Council. And I wanted to inform the Senedd that I've spoken to the Welsh Refugee Council; I met with them today with my officials. My officials also met with them on Sunday night. They have had to close their offices, seek advice from the police about the impact that this misinformation that's been circulated and recirculated has had on them. We are liaising with the police and partners to address this matter. And, Dirprwy Lywydd, can I say, as Trefnydd, we encourage all to refrain from promoting these dangerous false claims?

Trefnydd, I must say you've done an incredible job of batting away most requests for statements here this afternoon, but I wonder if I can tempt you with another request for a statement here today, and that's for a statement from the Welsh Government on its plans to streamline flood resilience and flood defence investment and oversight. It struck me at a meeting on Friday with the Broughton and Bretton flood group, who've experienced significant amounts of regular flooding in that area in recent years, that there are various authorities, such as Welsh Water, Natural Resources Wales, the local authorities, as well as the work of the residents themselves, often scrambling between themselves to deal with immediate flooding, but also putting together plans and strategies for the future, as well. 

Now, this meeting of local residents in Bretton and Broughton had done a phenomenal job of bringing those organisations together and those relevant authorities, but it strikes me that it could be done much more efficiently as many of them are chasing after similar funding pots, and are at risk sometimes of blaming each other for issues that arise. So, I think it would be much better for residents across Wales if there was a more streamlined approach to flood resilience and flood defence investment and oversight, and I'd be grateful if you're able to commit to a statement from the Welsh Government explaining how it would seek to make that whole process much better for residents here in Wales.

Thank you for raising that question, and it is clear—and I've already answered one question on a regional/local level in terms of impacts on one town, Llanwrtyd Wells—and we know that it is important that local people, local elected representatives and, indeed, Senedd Members and Members of Parliament, engage in responding to their local communities' need. But we do have that streamlined approach in terms of moving forward and responding to flood events, but also moving forward in terms of our plans for flood alleviation as well. Of course, that is also reflected in the funding being made available in the draft budget. So, obviously, the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Secretary for Climate Change and Rural Affairs will be mindful of the question you've raised this afternoon, but I do believe that is being delivered through our flood alleviation prevention strategies.

Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd. I'd like to request a statement from the Cabinet Secretary for climate change, if I may—don't worry, it's not about the Denbighshire bins this time, but it's related—regarding the increase in waste coming across the border and being dumped in landfill sites across north Wales. Constituents have raised concerns with me regarding local authorities in north Wales permitting increasing amounts of waste from England to be disposed of in their local area. The majority of waste dumped at the Hafod landfill site in Wrexham is from England, with 37 per cent of waste dumped at the Hafod landfill site alone coming from Merseyside, which is a 16 per cent increase from 2020. This increase in the amount of waste being dumped has also led to public health concerns and an increase in an intolerable smell from the site. Denbighshire residents are quite rightly concerned that they could also be lumbered with waste from elsewhere. So, could the Cabinet Secretary for climate change outline how the Welsh Government is working with the UK Government and local authorities in England to ensure that residents in north Wales do not have to pay for the failures of local authorities in the north-west of England? Thank you.

You've raised a very specific question and issue for the Cabinet Secretary and Deputy First Minister, and he will find an appropriate way to respond to that. Thank you for raising it.

Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd. The people of Wales spoke clearly when the First Minister Eluned Morgan visited communities across Wales and asked people what mattered to them most. Today, I am here to show how we're turning those words into action. We're making homes warmer, bills lower, and taking concrete steps to tackle climate emergency, and I want to outline exactly what that means for families across our nation.  

This decade must be a decade of action on climate, and we are backing that commitment with more than £30 million this year alone in our enhanced Warm Homes Nest scheme. Our approach is comprehensive and targeted. We're tackling fuel poverty through a two-pronged strategy: providing expert advice to Welsh households, while delivering physical improvements to our least energy efficient homes, which cost more to heat. Our renewed programme, launched in April, is already making a real difference. Here’s what it means. If people are struggling with fuel bills, our advisers will work with them to identify the most effective improvements for their homes. They’ll provide practical tips to boost energy efficiency, reduce bills and guide people towards additional support services where needed. It might be better insulation, it might be solar panels or even a heat pump. I want to be clear about who can get this help. We've widened the net. If a household income is below 60 per cent of the typical Welsh income, it could qualify for help. This is about helping everyone who needs support, regardless of their circumstances. 

We know that, for families across Wales, heating isn't nice to have; it's an essential. That's why, since April, we've helped more than 100 vulnerable households who were in crisis as a result of broken boilers. Real people with real problems getting real help when they need it most. And we’re helping people in social housing too. Just last month, I visited Denbighshire's Llys Esgob Morgan development. The housing association, ClwydAlyn, have used Welsh Government funding to improve energy efficiency through both traditional insulation methods and innovative products. That means warmer homes for people in Denbighshire. And here's what making me particularly proud: 90 per cent of the money we spend improving our social housing is going straight to Welsh businesses and Welsh workers. That's local jobs, local supply chains and local families benefiting directly from our investment. We have a proud record.

We are reviewing part L of our building regulations to ensure new builds in Wales are more energy efficient, with the aim of driving up the use of low-carbon heating systems like heat pumps. We've also poured over £2 billion into making our social housing better over the last 20 years. That investment got us to where we are today, with our social homes hitting an average energy performance certificate rating of D, but we're not stopping there. This year kicks off our new, bolder standard, one that demands every single social home in Wales reaches EPC C by 2030, before pressing on to EPC A, the highest level of energy efficiency. That means stable bills and a smaller carbon footprint for thousands of Welsh families.

The First Minister and I recently visited the remarkable passive house development in Cardiff. These homes are so well built that they barely need heating at all: that's the future we're building with our investment. By 2030, every social home in Wales will meet high energy efficiency standards. That's not just an environmental target; it's a commitment to delivering lower bills, year after year, for thousands of families. Our £260 million optimised retrofit programme, which has spent £70 million this year alone, doesn't just help us tackle climate change, although that matters enormously; it's also about making sure that nobody in Wales has to choose between warming their home and feeding their family.

For home owners who want to make changes but can't afford the initial costs, we have interest-free loans through our Green Homes Wales scheme. The uptake has been fantastic, with over 2,500 expressions of interest to date—evidence that people across Wales want to make their homes fit for the future. My colleague Jane Hutt will be speaking later about additional support that could put money back into your pocket, but I won't steal her thunder. What I will say is this: there are billions in unclaimed support that should be helping Welsh families with their bills, and we want people to claim what they're entitled to.

Let me finish with a message for anyone sitting at home worried about their energy bills or wondering how to make their home warmer: please, pick up the phone and call the Warm Homes Nest scheme. It's a Freephone number. The Welsh Labour Government is ready to help you figure out what support is best for you, because, when we talk about living in warm homes, we're talking about dignity. We're talking about children who can focus on their homework instead of shivering. We're talking about families who shouldn't have to choose between necessities. This is what action looks like: help that reaches the homes and families that need it most. Every warm home, every reduced bill, every family helped—it's more than a policy on paper, it's real change happening right now across Wales, making people's lives better. That's delivery in action. Diolch yn fawr.

Well, I've been raising this for over two decades here, yet fuel poverty remains a deep, enduring issue across Wales, estimated to impact virtually all our lower income households. With energy prices set to stay high throughout the winter, well above pre-crisis levels, many households will struggle to keep warm and well. There's an urgent need to improve the energy efficiency of fuel-poor homes in Wales with energy bills that are permanently low. Yet at the current rate of delivery of the Welsh Government's Warm Homes Nest scheme—just over 1,600 homes per year—it will take well over a century to improve the energy efficiency of the homes of all our lower income households currently estimated to be in fuel poverty. The sector continues to call on the Welsh Government to significantly increase the funding of its Warm Homes programme, as they state this is currently insufficient to address the scale of the challenge of fuel poverty in Wales. How do you, therefore, respond to the call at last November's joint meeting of the cross-party group on fuel poverty and energy efficiency and cross-party group on housing for the Welsh Government to allocate the consequentials from the UK Government's Warm Homes plan into its Warm Homes programme to support this, estimated to result in around £170 million in Wales?

As the office of the older people's commissioner has stated, boiler repairs or replacements in necessary circumstances should be available to all eligible applicants without working heating or hot water where low-carbon heating is not yet viable or appropriate, irrespective of age and health. However, within the first six months of operation of the Welsh Government's current Warm Homes programme, launched 1 April last year, some eligible households were being turned away for measures if their home was not yet viable or appropriate for a heat pump. This was very concerning and in sharp contrast to how National Energy Action and partners understood the scheme was intended to operate, risking leaving eligible low-income households, living in the least efficient homes, with no working heating or hot water. They therefore strongly recommended this issue was resolved as a matter of urgency. Thankfully, in response to their feedback, the Welsh Government has agreed to ensure that all eligible Nest applicants can now receive a boiler repair or replacement if they have no working heating or hot water, meaning that, while heat pumps are still available, eligible households may, for now, still be able to get a replacement boiler or repair as an alternative, alongside other insulation and energy efficiency measures. However, how do you respond to Fuel Poverty Coalition Cymru's concern that the Welsh Government is only committed to this necessary provision until the end of March, and to their call for this to remain in place throughout the duration of the programme?

Care & Repair does extensive work, both in tackling fuel poverty and supporting income maximisation for older people in Wales who are living in some of the most energy inefficient and therefore cold properties. How do you respond to their call for resource to promote benefit update direct to local campaigns run by local organisations in order to improve awareness on entitlements and help reduce stigma and complexity surrounding the benefits system?

After scrapping winter fuel payments for millions of pensioners, the UK Labour Government urged pensioners to check if they could be eligible for pension credit to secure to secure the winter fuel payment. An estimated 130,000 older people in the UK will miss out because they're just £500 over the income threshold to claim pension credit. How do you, therefore, respond to the call by the Older People's Commissioner for Wales for action to resolve the issue of the cliff edge whereby older people ineligible for pension credit because of incomes just above the threshold miss out on support entirely, and to the call from Care & Repair Cymru for the implementation of a safety net grant for disrepair for vulnerable and low-income households, including those who fall just short of pension credit eligibility, to keep them safe, warm and out of hospital?

Finally, how do you respond to concern expressed by the Older People's Commissioner for Wales, in evidence to the Equality and Social Justice Committee consultation on fuel poverty in Wales, that, quote:

'Other concerns with the Warm Homes Programme include the scale of the scheme (particularly given rising energy prices and the cost-of-living crisis), the overall levels of funding provided to undertake activity, and the processes for monitoring, evaluation, and reporting on progress'? 

Diolch, Mark, and, first of all, I'd just like to put on record my thanks for the work that you've done on the cross-party group, and I know that I've been fortunate to come along to that cross-party group just before Christmas to talk about and hear from stakeholders directly as well about some of the issues that you've mentioned today.

Just to highlight some of the things that we are doing, to date, the Welsh Government has invested more than £251 million to improve home energy efficiency through the Warm Homes programme, and Nest has helped more than 82,000 lower income households by installing measures in their homes, and more than 210,000 have contacted Nest to receive that free energy efficiency advice. This is something that the Welsh Government have been committed to long term, because, between 2009 and 2021, we've helped over 21,000 households through Arbed, investing that European funding to improve housing conditions in our most deprived areas.

With regard to the issue around people needing support in a crisis situation, which I think is a really important one, as I mentioned in my statement, and as you touched on, Mark, as well, I had agreed to allow boiler repairs or replacements this winter to help all households eligible for Nest who find themselves in immediate crisis without heating or water. Householders must meet the current Nest eligibility criteria, and no changes are being proposed to those criteria. All householders who meet the Nest eligibility criteria and who do not have heating or hot water can receive a boiler repair or replacements. Householders that have their boiler repaired or replaced through this route will still have their house assessed for further energy efficiency measures, with a view to making the house ready to move away from fossil fuel heating in the future. So, that is something we are doing at this time. People are feeling right at the crisis point. We are looking to see what we can do in the future to make sure those efficiencies are put in at a later date. So, there are a lot of things going on in that space, and, with regard to work with UK Government, obviously officials work closely, both here in Wales and at a UK Government level. Receiving pension credit is the key for many older people in Wales that unlocks their entitlement to that winter fuel payment, and the Welsh Government, as you know, had a really strong campaign to get eligible pensioners signed up for pension credit, and that ensured that eligible pensioners received winter fuel payments.

The UK Government continues to deliver the Warm Homes discount, which does protect householders on lower incomes and ensures that they can heat their homes, with £150 off their energy bills, but I know my Cabinet colleague Jane Hutt has been really doing a lot of work in this space, and it is important that we also work across Government to do everything we can to ensure that everything that people are entitled to is taken up.

Diolch, Siân, and I’ll try to address a number of the questions in your contribution. In terms of the Warm Homes programme, as I said, we’re investing more than £13 million this year in that new Warm Homes Nest scheme. Eligible households are going to receive that bespoke package of measures to insulate and decarbonise their homes, leading to those lower energy bills and to moving them out of fuel poverty, and this goes to what you were saying about the aims of the scheme.

Our scheme is taking a fabric and low-carbon-first approach to improve the long-term energy efficiency of the least thermally efficient low-income households in Wales. So, it’s a two-pronged approach through an advice service and through physically improving the homes of the fuel poor. The scheme is in its infancy, and I think officials will be reviewing progress to ensure that the scheme meets the primary objective. So, I think it is ongoing and we will review things. We’re always looking at gaps, and that was one of the things that was picked up about the gas boiler repairs, so we are listening; we have put that investment in to support those people in crisis point to—. As you say, heat storage pumps are not fit for everybody at the moment, but then we’ll be—. As I said in response to Mark, we’re going in there and we’re also looking at what more can be done in the future to make sure that things could actually be ready for a storage heater, potentially, or the other technological developments that happen.

Just to say as well, in terms of the programme, I do see within my own postbag as a constituency MS and as the Cabinet Secretary as well, when people from this Chamber write to me about particular issues, so I’m always keen to pick up where perhaps there are some gaps, and what we can do to look at filling some of those gaps with other organisations that might be able to help sometimes. For example, I know that Care & Repair are able to support people as well in particular circumstances, so there’s lots going on within that, but I’m always keen to listen to everybody if there are gaps.

We have to be aware, we’ve got to a point, we’ve had the first stage of the scheme, and things can be a bit more complex now when we’re looking at people’s properties and what needs to be done in those properties, so we are aware of the challenges, but we are doing everything that we possibly can to support people, and I’m really keen that as many people in this Chamber help promote the advice that is available, and that advice is independent.

In terms of the area-based approach, again, the new scheme is in its infancy, you know, phase 2. So, again, officials are reviewing that progress to ensure that the demand-led element of the programme meets that primary objective of tackling fuel poverty and the climate emergency.

In the main two postcodes for my constituency, CF23 and 24, 2019 and 2021 were the bumper years for retrofits. But we're talking 105 and 103 in each of these years, which is obviously very welcome for those homes, but is a drop in the ocean compared with the huge need there is in the private sector, which is where all the coldest homes now are, because of the area-based scheme that we've had in operation. So, obviously, we need to get people ringing that freephone number 0808 808 2244, because people who have money need to be doing the right thing both for their energy bills as well as for the environment, because there is no logic in going on heating the birds.

I spoke to a tenant in the private sector last Friday, and she only had one radiator working in the whole of the three-bedroomed flat. We have to get these private landlords engaged with the scheme to ensure that people who are living in the most expensive rented homes are actually getting a much better deal. So, what can we do to get those who have money to do the right thing for the environment as well as for their heating bills, but also, how can we engage with private landlords on getting them to upgrade their buildings? Bringing them up to EPC C is a very long way from where we are at the moment; they're nearly all E, and the worst ones are F and G.

But in addition to that, we obviously need an area-based scheme, because these individual things are as nothing—

Thank you, Jenny.

—compared to the number of Arbed homes that were retrofitted in the thousands.

Thank you, Jenny, and you've raised important points there. In terms of the decarbonisation of private homes and the advice that people can get, again, this is the advice line that you mentioned. It's a freephone line and you can access it on the website as well. But I think it's really important, they'll offer tips and offer ways forward when they come to speak to you, which I think means that people are able to have that trusted advice, which I think is so important in this area.

The Green Homes Wales scheme, operated by the Development Bank of Wales, supports owner-occupiers on their decarbonisation journey, with access to zero-interest finance and retrofit assessments to help understand the work required for their home, so we're really looking forward to seeing the impact of the Green Homes Wales scheme. Again, it's really a key step in enabling home owners to make those green choices for their homes.

But the point you make around private landlords is very well made. We're doing a huge amount in terms of what we want to do with our social homes. We're putting a lot of emphasis on that, but there's still the huge challenge that we're up for, which is looking at the private rented sector and all the privately owned properties that we know have to get to that particular standard. But I'd be very interested to perhaps meet with you to talk about this in further detail as well.

I don't think we've seen the urgency of action and scale of investment needed, really, to tackle fuel poverty through the Warm Homes programme, although that is the Government's flagship policy to do so. And I think that's in part because the Welsh Government's picture of fuel poverty is stuck in the past. The outdated estimates that form the basis of its understanding of fuel poverty don't reflect the harsh reality faced by far too many households across Wales today. They pre-date the cost-of-living and energy crisis, Brexit and the pandemic. The understanding is based on the 2008 living in Wales survey and the 2017-18 Wales housing condition survey, and that survey is meant to be updated every five years, but here we are, eight years on, approaching nine, with no update and no sign of one.

While we're on the subject of delays, we can't ignore the tackling fuel poverty plan. Is it still the ambition of the Welsh Government to review it? Do you agree, Cabinet Secretary, that interim targets provide a clear road map to 2035 and opportunities to monitor progress? So, will you ensure that the Government fulfils its statutory obligations to set those targets? And do you agree that the current data on fuel poverty is outdated, so how are you going to rectify that?

Diolch, Sioned. And, thank you for those important points. I think that the Welsh Government has shown over many years the ambition that we have here to tackle this. We've put money into our Warm Homes programme, we've invested in that, that's people getting help who need it the most. I think our new approach, which is that fabric-worst approach, is important, because we're really getting to those people who, I think, are crucially important in terms of who needs it the most. And we've tried to do what we can to extend the eligibility criteria, as you will have seen from our new scheme.

We are helping people, and as I say, it's been a long-standing commitment of this Government over many years. We've learnt from those programmes, as well. We've seen programmes such as the innovative housing programme that ran from 2017 to 2022, where over £155 million of capital grant alone was committed to fund over 70 developments across Wales and deliver about 2,000 affordable, low-carbon homes. Do I want to see more? Absolutely, I do want to see that, and that is something that we are working hard to do.

Your point around numbers and having the data is an important one and I know that these are discussions that I've had with Cabinet colleagues as well.

Cabinet Secretary, it's always a challenge to make these schemes fit the circumstances of all of those who could benefit from the help offered. I have constituents, for example, who live in a stone house, they're off grid, they're in their late 70s, the man cares for his wife, but he himself is disabled and in fact awaiting a knee replacement. They qualify for help through Nest, but because they're off grid, their preferred option of a free-standing oil burner is not available under the scheme, as you've told me in a letter that responded to my raising of their case. Heat pumps would be prohibitively expensive for them, and at the moment, they're burning coal and you've kindly engaged Care & Repair to help them with the effort and the difficulty of lighting fires and dealing with fires on a daily basis. You do say in your letter, Cabinet Secretary, that you're in talks with British Gas for those in their circumstances, who are off grid and not able to have heat pumps, so I wonder if you could continue your efforts for this particular couple, because coal fires are rather difficult for their circumstances and disabilities, and they really need a different solution.

Diolch yn fawr, John. And thank you for raising that case, and I thank everybody who does raise particular cases. I appreciate that we've been having this conversation through some correspondence as well, and I think when issues are raised, that means that I am able to think about how we can do more if there are gaps within schemes. As I said in the letter, we're in discussion with British Gas about how customers, such as the constituents that you've raised, can be supported. So, I look forward to staying in touch with the general points as well.

As I said, I think there are aspects where, perhaps, they're not eligible for the scheme, but there are other pots of advice available, things like Care & Repair, who are able to help them practically at the moment. But I think that's why it's important to have those conversations with the Nest scheme as well, as they are able to point people in the right direction as well as giving that impartial advice, which I think is really important, for people to have that impartial advice to make sure that they're making the right choices for themselves.

Thank you, Cabinet Secretary, for the statement. I'd also like to thank her as well for her engagement on the Arbed issue in Caerau. I know that she's taken a keen interest since taking up the post and has spoken to a number of stakeholders around trying to resolve this issue, and that's really where the thrust of my question is going today.

When I mention the plans of the Welsh Government around Warm Homes to constituents, especially in those areas, the answer I normally get back is, 'Oh, here we go, another Welsh Government scheme, there's no way that I'm signing up to that'—and I'm using diplomatic language in conveying that to you. What we have here now, as a result of failures of previous programmes, is a complete lack of trust in Welsh Government programmes within this specific field. So, my question to you today is how do we restore some of that trust amongst these communities. Some of these communities really do need to see their homes retrofitted, it's going to be of benefit to them, but it does require, I think, a body of work from the Welsh Government to promote that to those communities and to restore that trust. Because right now that trust doesn't exist.

Diolch, Luke. Thank you for the engagement that we've had over this as well. I've had discussions with Huw Irranca-Davies as well on similar lines. First of all, I'd like to put on record again that I understand how hard it has been for people in Caerau, and the distress that that has caused. As you know, we have awarded grant funding for that scheme, but you're absolutely right—it's really important that people have that trust. I take that very seriously, and I know you do too, Luke.

I will first of all highlight a couple of updates around Caerau. I had a meeting just before Christmas with Bridgend County Borough Council for an update. I'd also asked officials to follow up as well, and they're going to have an update from Bridgend County Borough Council about the properties in mid February, so I'd be happy to keep you and others up to date with that. There is a residents meeting scheduled on Wednesday 22 January, which you might know, and I'm looking forward to an update following that residents meeting. I think that's partly how we can build that trust within that group of people, which we have talked about and which is so important. So far, eight homes have been completed, 47 homes have had the external wall insulation removed, and 19 are currently having EWI removed through January. Retrofit designers and contractors are currently quality checking the properties. Designs are being completed and works to reinstall the insulation and rendering will take place over the next few weeks as well.

It is absolutely important that we learn lessons from those schemes. We've implemented several measures to provide greater assurance and protection to householders under our new Warm Homes Nest programme. That includes ensuring governance through financial monitoring, project boards and compliance meetings, introducing key performance indicators for complaints received, reducing potential conflicts of interest by letting separate contracts for our advice and referral provider and our delivery provider. They're just a few examples, but I can assure you that I take this very seriously, as you do, and, obviously, the residents as well. It's important we build that trust back up.

In communities across north Wales, I've seen the difference the funding has made, whether it's enveloping works, insulation, new roofs, windows, doors. I visited a lady in Anglesey in the scheme, in sheltered accommodation. She was blind, and the difference the work had made to her health and well-being, being warm in that house. Another lady, who suffered from chronic obstructive pulmonary disease, said the difference it was making to her health as well, being in a warm home, was really good. I've directed people to the Nest scheme as well who needed new boilers. I know that there have been issues with the air-source heat pumps, with people not knowing how to use them properly. I know ClwydAlyn actually invested in an adviser, who was able to go around all the homes that they've built, the new social housing as well, where these are in place, to advise people how to use them properly, so they're used effectively. So, my question to you is how are services signposting people so that they can have this impartial advice, and how successful have they been in finding solutions. In my experience, it has been really useful and really good where I've been, but if you could give me more information on that, please.

Thank you, Carolyn. Thank you for highlighting the good practice. It is really important we share that, isn’t it? Also, it is quite something when you think about all the people who have been helped. Sometimes, we know that there are challenges in areas or for individuals. But as I said, the Nest scheme has helped more than 82,000 people in lower income households by installing those measures in their homes. And even more have been helped to get that free energy efficiency advice. So, I’m keen that as many people get the support through that free energy efficiency advice phone line as possible, and I’m sure everybody else is in terms of helping to promote that.

On air-source heat pumps, as you say, it’s really good to hear that people are being employed to make sure people know how to use them. I think that’s a really good example of where we can share that best practice. Because it is important, if they are there, that people know how to use them. And it demystifies as well some of the things around air-source heat pumps.

In terms of advice services, I think the separation between the advice service and the delivery is an important element of the scheme. Again, that goes back to helping to build trust. Officials have been working with our contractors, local authorities and other partners to ensure that the new demand-led scheme is complementary to other energy efficiency and fuel poverty schemes. Our delivery partner, the Energy Saving Trust, provides free independent energy saving advice to all those households, as I say, and this new programme is a more joined-up approach with complementary schemes to maximise the benefits to all Welsh citizens.

Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd. I think we need a bit of a reality check here. Let’s not think that Wales is doing a good job in this space. I have to say that the future generations commissioners—the previous commissioner and the present commissioner—have reminded us how woefully short the investment going into this area is vis-à-vis the level of challenge that’s facing us. We still have the most energy inefficient housing stock in western Europe. And whilst there are good things happening, they’re not happening at the scale or at the pace that’s required to really make an impact in this sphere.

You’ve mentioned that the Government can bring quite a bit of influence to bear within social housing and the public sector, but of course the private sector is a very difficult challenge. The environment committee has suggested in the past using the land transaction tax as leverage, if you like, to encourage action in the private sector. For example, if somebody improves energy efficiency in their home before selling a house, then they could well receive some sort of reduced land transaction tax. Or if, within 12 or 18 months, they improve the energy efficiency of the house after buying it, then they receive a rebate. That’s been ruled out by the Government so far, but I would ask whether you’d be willing to consider that, because it is a real leverage, I think, that the Government has to try and influence change in the private sector.

Diolch, Llyr, and thank you for the work you’ve done in this area as Chair of the climate change committee. The points you raise around the challenge are absolutely—. I’m talking about the really positive things today, but, as you’ve mentioned, some of the figures that you raise around the challenge that is ahead are huge. I do understand that. But I think it’s important to remember what we are doing and how we are making progress. I’m always keen to look at what more we can do, what more schemes are available. As I mentioned, the Green Homes Wales scheme, with the Development Bank of Wales, is doing something that I think will be very positive, and I’m very keen to look at the impact that has on home owners.

In terms of other support we provide to, say, for example, private landlords, one of the things is around Leasing Scheme Wales, which is a recent scheme. That is about bringing properties back up to standard to improve the energy efficiency of the homes, as well as trying to get more homes in the whole scheme of things. So, there are things we’re doing. I don’t underestimate the challenge, but we are doing what we can within the envelope that we have, and I think it’s important to remember those people who are being helped at the moment as well.

It's estimated around £2 billion of financial support is going unclaimed in Wales, and one of the key levers the Welsh Labour Government has is ensuring people claim what they are entitled to, helping to make a positive difference to families across Wales. We are helping people claim every pound they are entitled to through a number of actions: the 'Claim what’s yours' benefit take-up campaign, the single advice fund, the provision of free training for front-line workers and delivering on the commitments in the Welsh benefits charter. 

The Welsh Government’s commitment to funding social welfare advice services is a key element of our income maximisation work. Advice services play a vital role in helping people access their rights to housing, employment and financial support, and is a key objective of the child poverty strategy. Between January 2020 and September 2024, services delivered through the single advice fund have helped people to claim an extra income of over £160 million. Also, debts of £43.6 million have been written off. 

In the last financial year, 76 per cent of people accessing a service were from a marginalised or disadvantaged population group, including older people, disabled people and people from black, Asian and minority ethnic communities. These are also the population groups that tend not to be claiming their entitlements to financial support, and that's why everyone accessing a single advice fund service has a conversation about their rights to claim extra income and how to save money on their essential expenditure, for example by accessing social tariffs.

This approach not only takes away the reliance on people knowing what financial support is available to them, but it also removes the stigma associated with a person asking for help with finances. The benefits to people from accessing a single advice fund service cannot be overestimated, and I've committed £36 million for the provision of advice services over the next three years. In December, I announced the providers who will be delivering the single advice fund services from April 2025, and the offer of a three-year grant award to these providers is a clear demonstration of the Welsh Government’s ongoing commitment to the provision of advice services.

The 'Claim what’s yours' benefit take-up campaign encourages people who do not usually access advice services to check their entitlement for financial support by contacting Advicelink Cymru’s helpline. The helpline is part of the single advice fund delivery model that recognises people often have multiple social welfare issues. When a person contacts the helpline the adviser will help them to identify any other problems that they have. Last year, the 36,800 people who contacted the helpline were helped to resolve 120,000 problems they had had with their financial entitlements, housing, employment or managing debts. We are currently running a fifth media campaign with messages being shared through a range of media channels, including tv and radio, and people will find information on their financial entitlements on Facebook and other social media platforms. 

I am committed to empowering front-line workers to make every contact count, and I know frontline workers are regularly engaging with people who are missing out on their entitlements to financial support. In the past two years, over 6,000 front-line workers, who support a wide range of service users including families, people in low-paid employment, carers, older people, students and young people, have received this front-line training. Seventy per cent have confirmed that they've used their learning from the training to inform service users about additional income. I have made funding available for a new programme of free income maximisation training to commence in the spring, again, demonstrating our commitment to make every pound count.

Dirprwy Lywydd, along with our success in raising people’s awareness of financial support and in helping them to claim their entitlements, I am determined to make the benefits, grants and other payments that are provided by the Welsh Labour Government as simple to claim as they possibly can be. The work is being informed by the research that Policy in Practice published in March 2023, 'A common approach to Welsh benefits', which was commissioned by the Bevan Foundation. In January 2024 I was proud to launch the Welsh benefits charter with its aim for a person to only have to tell their story once to access their entitlements. The charter was endorsed by all 22 Welsh local authorities in Wales in a clear demonstration of their commitment to work towards the person-centred design and delivery of Welsh benefits, grants and payments. A steering group of experts from local authorities and the third sector is driving this work forward.

Due to the complexity of the work required to streamline the delivery of all the Welsh benefits, the steering group has adopted a phased approach, focusing on a small number of key benefits first. The phase 1 route-map is published today. This sets out the tasks that will be undertaken to ensure that people can seamlessly claim their entitlement to council tax reduction, free school meals and the school essentials grant in each Welsh local authority by April 2026. This will benefit families across Wales. I presented the phase 1 route-map to the partnership council for Wales in November where it was welcomed and endorsed by all partnership council members. The publication of the phase 1 route-map is a significant milestone in our work to improve access to the Welsh benefits and, as the work progresses, we will learn lessons that will guide how other Welsh benefits and payments are brought into the programme.

Dirprwy Lywydd, when the route-map was being developed, data sharing and data analysis were recognised as barriers to the streamlining of the delivery of the Welsh benefits and also a barrier that prevented people from claiming their entitlements. I am therefore pleased to announce that I have provided £550,000 for a pilot project, which seeks to identify how we can remove these barriers. In a 12-month pilot, which started this week, 11 local authorities are being supported by the data analytics company Policy in Practice to analyse their income data sets to identify and target residents who are missing out on their entitlements. One of the participants in the pilot is Neath Port Talbot Council, who have already undertaken work with Policy in Practice, delivering significant income gains in the take-up of pension credit. I am looking forward to the outcomes from the pilot providing similar results as well as valuable learning for our work to streamline the delivery of Welsh benefits, particularly around data governance. And I would like to take the opportunity to thank the members of the Welsh Government’s expert income maximisation group and the streamlining Welsh benefits steering group.

All of our income maximisation work is aimed at putting more money into people’s pockets, helping them to pay their household bills, avoid falling into debt and improving their financial well-being. But we are also supporting local economies across Wales, where many people will spend their additional income. So, this is the Welsh Government delivering for the people of Wales.

Thank you for your statement, Cabinet Secretary. I welcome the work undertaken to ensure that the people of Wales claim every pound that they are entitled to. One silver lining to come out of the UK Government's callous decision to axe the winter fuel payment for those not on means-tested benefits is the fact that it spurred many older people to claim the pension credit they were entitled to. As you rightly stated, Cabinet Secretary, around £2 billion of financial support is going unclaimed by families and individuals in need across Wales. The single advice fund, together with the publicity campaigns, will play a key role in ensuring our constituents get the support that they need and deserve. I note, however, that the single advice fund is being delivered on a regional basis, with six regional partners. How do you ensure that the service delivered is a single consistent service across the whole of Wales? 

I also welcome the commitment to making every contact count and the roll-out of training to front-line workers. You state that funding has been made for new training to commence in the spring. Can you elaborate on the numbers involved, both in terms of funds but also the number of staff expected to undergo this training? Cabinet Secretary, a key strand to making every contact count would be the involvement of Department for Work and Pensions staff and those working in Jobcentre Plus offices. What discussions have you held with colleagues in the UK Government about their role in supporting Welsh benefits?

With regard to the Welsh benefits system, it is disappointing that we are still a long way from delivering a coherent and integrated Welsh benefits system for all of the means-tested benefits that the Welsh Government is responsible for. A decade on from the first calls, and a year on from the launch of the charter, we finally have a road map, but it only relates to three of the Welsh Government’s benefits. Cabinet Secretary, when will we see the next phase of the road map?

We have a steering group that has not met since before the summer, if the minutes published on your website are up to date. Cabinet Secretary, can you now inject a sense of urgency into this work? Rather than having meetings to develop plans for plans, can we have action?

I note that you mentioned the work undertaken by NPT council in my region, which works with Policy in Practice to increase the uptake of pension credit. If they had waited for the Welsh Government, many of the elderly people in my region would not have been in receipt of the winter fuel payment. Cabinet Secretary, I welcome the work being undertaken, but people living in poverty can’t wait another 10 years for this work to be completed. Diolch yn fawr.  

Diolch yn fawr, Altaf Hussain, and thank you for the broad support, I understand, for the work that we are undertaking. It is the work that we are undertaking to ensure that people in Wales claim every pound that they are entitled to. To reassure you, we have had a well-established income maximisation stakeholder group, which includes, I would say, DWP—the Department for Work and Pensions—to drive forward this work. And our campaigns are delivering those results.

Just to answer your questions, the terms of the single advice fund—. We introduced that single advice fund to ensure that we are funding strategically planned services. I actually meet regularly with the national advice network, bringing together those providers. We want a seamless service and access to all advice and support that people require to address their needs. But also, just to say, in terms of how we deliver the single advice fund, it includes advice and access partners. Access partners are a wide range of community organisations. They reach out to their service users and local community groups to ensure that people can understand how they can access the advice that they need. I have mentioned the all-important media outreach, which is important in terms of the links to 'Claim what’s yours'.

It is important that, as I said, in the financial year, over 70 per cent of people accessing the single advice service were from priority groups, including people with mental health issues or impairments, people with physical health issues and impairments. Also, just to say, importantly, we have protected the £12 million single advice fund budget in the 2025-26 draft budget, alongside the additional £1.9 million that we received from the share of the debt levy, which has enabled us to continue to invest in information advice services. And I do draw attention to the written statement that I made on 12 September, which gives you more information about the outcome of the open grant exercise that we launched to ensure that we have got the providers on board.

I think that the income maximisation training for front-line workers has proven to be extremely valuable. I recall, actually, that this was something that came particularly to the fore when we acknowledged the impact of the cost-of-living crisis. We worked on this during the period of austerity, with very constrained public finances. Front-line services play a critical role in Wales. This has been a successful intervention, with over 6,000 front-line workers receiving training in the past two years. So, I have, as I said in my statement, funded a new programme of training, which will commence shortly, and that will strengthen the impact of that. We've made £300,000 available for a two-year programme—free income maximisation training—to front-line workers from next month. It's for those front-line workers to gain that knowledge of financial support systems.

Another interesting thing is I met with responsible lenders last week from a range of organisations, like credit unions, but also responsible lenders in the banking sector, and we talked about the importance of having benefit checks, that people are trained to be able to do that on the front line. And I do recall that, when we initiated action on tackling the cost-of-living crisis, we talked very much about every contact counts. I think, actually, I can say that Lynne Neagle, in her former ministerial role for public health, saw the importance of enabling and encouraging people to take up the Healthy Start vouchers and supported the training of health visitors, because, obviously, health visitors are crucial to new parents, and that resulted in a big uptake of Healthy Start vouchers, which are crucially important in terms of prevention of poverty.

On your issue about the Welsh benefits charter, well I, in fact, met with—I think I've already said it in my statement—the local government partnership—that's all leaders—before Christmas, to update them as we move to report, as I hope I am today, on phase 1. This is all 22 authorities endorsing the charter. I was very pleased to launch the charter in Blaenavon, led by Torfaen council. In fact, I endorsed it there and I launched it with Siân Gwenllian, as this was part of our co-operation agreement. We met with all of those who give that advice. It's person-centred delivery of Welsh benefits grants and payments. But it is important that we help local authorities to move towards this focus on a person-centred, more coherent delivery of Welsh benefits, grants and payments, because it does actually mean that there's a cultural change in terms of how they respond to this, getting all authorities to move in the same direction and to streamline Welsh benefits.

So, I'm very proud of the progress we've made since last January. And this phase 1 route-map is the realistic approach. Yes, some authorities are already doing this. This is a journey. So, I think, although we said by April 2026, these people—. And I met the steering group, I can assure you, before Christmas as well, and the steering group are the people who actually deliver those entitlements at local authority level. I met with the steering group, and they are working to ensure that we can deliver on these outcomes. Phase 1 is a key milestone in the work, and I think it's important that this is just the start of the journey as the work progresses.

Diolch yn fawr, Sioned Williams, and thank you for not only acknowledging that this is vital work, but for the support that you have given and that we have formally engaged with in terms of the co-operation agreement and the launch of this Welsh benefits charter last year. And of course I recall the fact that we've discussed in this Chamber on more than one occasion the importance of responding to the Policy in Practice work that was commissioned by the Bevan Foundation. In fact, I mentioned it in my statement, because it is so important that we do move forward with the evidence as to how we can get the people of Wales to claim what's theirs. ‘Claim what's yours’—the benefits take-up campaign, I think, has always been the right terminology; it's ‘Claim what's yours’.

It does reflect on something that Altaf Hussain said, that it's about entitlement, it's about rights, and there was a strong recognition about an uplift in applications for pension credit because of the recognition that older people were seeing this as an entitlement. In fact, that's been recognised in the huge uplift in numbers of applications. 

So, the Welsh benefits charter is a major step forward. It's being looked at with great interest not just by UK Government, I have to say—I'll come on to that in terms of their responses—but also by Scottish Government. It is the fact that we've got all the local authorities together demonstrating their commitment to delivering for the people of Wales. I do, of course, recall the debate about mandation that you brought to the Chamber in terms of the statutory route to the charter that could be considered, but we felt and I said then and I still feel that we don't think there's a need to mandate the charter because of all local authorities in Wales committing to delivering on the benefits charter as we develop it. Even if it was mandatory, I'd say that they would still need, and we'd have to be recognising this—. There'd need to be preparatory work in place to make progress, and extra resource would be required to ensure local authorities were carrying out their legal duties. 

I think if we can move forward in a collaborative way, which we do with local government—supportive, collaborative, fulfilling their commitments, tailored solutions that respect the unique characteristics of local authorities in Wales. Some of your messages are really important for local government as well as for myself, because, obviously, they are taking part in this actively and enthusiastically.

And it's interesting, just in terms of my statement today, that Councillor Anthony Hunt, the Welsh Local Government Association spokesperson for finance, has said:

'We fully support the Welsh Government’s efforts to help people claim the financial support they’re entitled to. Ensuring that families and individuals get the benefits they’re eligible for can make a real difference, especially during tough times.... By making it simpler for people to access the support they need, we can not only improve the financial well-being of individuals but also strengthen communities'.

'The WLGA is committed to working with local authorities, community groups, and partners to simplify the claims process and help people understand the support available.'

I think you couldn't have a clearer endorsement of the Welsh benefits charter from the cabinet lead for finance, and, as I said, I've met not only with the leaders and the partnership council but also the steering group that is doing the work to understand how we can use this phase 1 route-map. And just to remind us, it's about making sure that people only need to claim once for council tax reduction, free school meals and school essentials grants, and, as I said, they're all on the route, they've all got a timeline to deliver, but many have already reached that point.

I think, just in terms of understanding the difference with the pilot that I'm announcing today, a year ago we hadn't thought about this pilot. I have to say that this is something where we've learnt not just from Policy in Practice's original paper, with support from the Bevan Foundation, but I've met with Policy in Practice more than once, particularly after we understood that Neath Port Talbot County Borough Council was making progress with bringing in Policy in Practice to help them with their pension credit take-up.

As a result of that, we looked, I looked, for some funding that we could make available to pay Policy in Practice to provide that analytic tool. It's a low-income family tracker tool, and what it will do is enable local authorities to identify residents entitled to a range of financial support, including all means-tested Department for Work and Pensions benefits, pension credit, universal credit, and Welsh benefits, free school meals, school essentials grant, the council tax reduction scheme, help with healthcare costs.

We've actually got 12 who've come forward saying that they want to be part of this pilot, but also two others are already working with Policy in Practice—there was a lot of interest when we had the reports on the very favourable take-up of pension credit. So, I think we are making great strides, and, in fact, the Policy in Practice director and founder said:

'We are delighted to partner with the Welsh government and local authorities to proactively put £2 billion of unclaimed benefits and support into the pockets of people in Wales.'

That's a statement from the director of Policy in Practice.

I just want to, finally, say that we are working closely with the UK Government on these issues. We have a UK Government child poverty taskforce. They're focusing on reducing the number of children in relative poverty after housing costs, reducing the number of children who are going without essentials, giving all children the best start in life. And they have focused—. Their initial focus, which I very much supported, and I'm meeting on a four-nations basis with the Cabinet Secretary from the Scottish Government, Northern Ireland Executive, as well as the UK Government Ministers, is focusing on increasing financial resilience, which is the key objective of our child poverty strategy, income maximisation, better local support, especially focusing on children's early years, and the work that we're doing on income maximisation. And the four-nations meeting—. We've had several meetings already, and I've been promoting our objectives and priorities within our child poverty strategy. I've been promoting the issues and concerns. I've been raising priorities for investment, particularly on welfare reform and social tariffs, pushing for greater collaboration between our Governments and local authorities and organisations delivering in Wales to address poverty.

I very much welcome the work Welsh Government is doing around income maximisation and around take-up, as well as the commitment and continued support for initiatives such as the discretionary and emergency assistance fund. Your statement today makes specific reference to people from disadvantaged population groups, such as older and disabled people. I want to raise today what more, potentially, the Welsh Government can consider to target support at these groups, and, in doing so, draw attention to some proposals by Unite the Union. On that point, Llywydd, I do declare that I am a proud member of Unite the Union. But they are putting forward a number of suggestions, whether that's targeted help to pensioners in receipt of housing benefit or disabled pensioners, or through application to a central fund, or even just adjustments to the emergency assistance payments. Cabinet Secretary, can I ask if this is something perhaps you'd be willing to give further consideration to along the line? Diolch yn fawr.

Diolch yn fawr, Hannah Blythyn. Well, I very much welcome the work of Unite the Union, and can I offer to meet with them to discuss this further to see what we can do within our powers? I'm sure that they will be very interested in the Welsh benefits charter. But I think the pilot that we're now taking forward, as I've described, with 12, 14, as others coming in, to make sure that they have that data analytics, so, finding out actually who's entitled to what—we should know this, shouldn't we—and looking at and being able to target those people, so they can take up all of the benefits they're entitled to—. So, I very much look forward to meeting with Unite the Union to discuss this further.

I would like to associate myself with all the points raised by my colleague Sioned Williams. I think we do need clarity, though, just in terms of the funding and the situation. You referenced at the beginning of your statement the single advice fund, but, as we know, it won't go as far as it previously did because of the rise in national insurance contributions. We've heard all the warnings from Citizens Advice about what that rise means in terms of the amount of advisers that they'll be able to employ, going forward. So, what assessment have you made, whilst launching this, of the impact of other changes and how the funding will actually be able to deliver the aspirations behind what you're launching? Obviously, you have our full support in terms of wanting to achieve this, but I just want to understand what implications there are from the national insurance situation.

Thank you very much. Diolch yn fawr, Heledd. I have already mentioned the fact that I've protected the single advice fund. I can't tell you how pleased the response has been about it now being a guaranteed three-year funding stream. I think it's really important in terms of fulfilling our code of practice for the third sector, but also that we got that extra £1.9 million from our share of the debt levy, and that is going to go into additional funding to invest in information and advice services.

Clearly we're working with the third sector in terms of recent announcements, the impacts of national insurance, but across my portfolio, as I said yesterday in the draft budget scrutiny in the Equality and Social Justice Committee, there's been a 7 per cent uplift in terms of support for the third sector infrastructure and a 3 per cent uplift across all of the third sector organisations that I'm supporting, including equality, inclusion and specialist services. So, I'm confident that the third sector and the single advice fund providers will be able to deliver on this.

I have mentioned the support in relation to my statement today. Can I just quote from Dylan Jordan, an adviser at Bridgend Citizens Advice? He says:

'Many people come to Citizens Advice wanting help but not knowing where to start. We check they’re getting the money they are entitled to and any urgent support they need right now. It might be a food parcel, a fuel voucher'— 

of course, also, I haven't mentioned the Fuel Bank Foundation partnership, which we've put more money into—

'or just a bit of help with the cost of school uniforms through the Welsh Government.'

And then, Dylan says,

'We will try our best to help you move forward.'

So, I think I have got that support from across the sectors to make sure that people claim what they're entitled to. I hope that reassures you.

I do echo many of the comments that have come in relation to this, it's great to see it happen, but the words 'pace' and 'scale' do not seem to be in there. We've had this promise for a year. We're just now seeing three benefits coming together, not for this April, but for next April, for April 2025. It's great to hear the organisations are behind it, but, actually, I'm sure they would all want to see this happening much faster and to see the scale of it increased as well.

The Bevan Foundation, as you know, recently highlighted to the Finance Committee that eligibility criteria for key benefits have been stuck for years, and as Sioned has said, families now need to be poorer than ever to qualify for shrinking support. And with the slow roll-out of this charter, that's really going to compound it.

Local government are up against it; they cannot take anything more on. We cannot expect them to build in more capacity in order to deliver this. So, could you let me know, please, how are we going to push this forward? When is phase 2 coming? Please can you take on board the comments from the Siambr that we need this to happen much faster, and we need it to be much bigger? Thank you. Diolch yn fawr iawn.

Diolch yn fawr, Jane Dodds. Well, I haven't named all the authorities that have come into our pilot, but Powys, I have to say, is one of them, and I'm sure you'll be glad to hear that. I'm certainly prepared to put on record all the authorities that are involved in our pilot, which I think is additional, as I've said, to the roll-out of the Welsh benefits charter phase 1. I think the fact that we're doing more than we said we'd do a year ago must be acknowledged.

So, in terms of scale, all 22 local authorities are on board, and we're working with them in collaboration to deliver that first phase. And that first phase, if people can succeed in getting that foot through the door to claim three benefits in one go, that will make a huge difference in terms of the take-up. But also, I have to say, we're looking across the board in terms of the benefits that we're able to give and support that we're able to give, and yesterday I was able to, for example, highlight that we responded to both the Bevan Foundation and Citizens Advice Cymru to give an uplift in our off grid, which I'm sure you will be interested in in terms of your constituents, in terms of discretionary assistance fund payments.

So, I do believe we're working at pace, but we're working at the pace that the local authorities can manage, and I would urge people to talk to their local authorities about their commitment to the roll-out of phase 1 of the Welsh benefits charter, but also their commitment to learning from this pilot, which over half of the local authorities in Wales have subscribed to. We're funding it, we're funding Policy in Practice. Policy in Practice believe that this will help us to enable people in Wales to claim the £2 billion that they're entitled to. And what a difference that will make to their lives, their families’ lives, and their communities and their local economies.

You said there that you're going at a pace that local authorities can manage. You've said that 22 are on board, but then only 50 per cent are actually delivering, and I'm interested in that delivery aspect, especially with funding. So, I must express some concern. How can we reasonably expect local authorities to continue to deliver non-statutory services, such as the Welsh benefits charter, when their financial position is very precarious? I've no doubt of their commitment, but it's on delivery. So, what I'd like to understand is what you've done to move the other 11 towards delivering on the charter. And what other aspects have you looked at with regard to putting this on a statutory footing? Because if it's on a statutory footing and properly funded, then it will deliver. You've got a commitment that we're behind you on this, but we do need you to actually look at how it's funded and make sure that the rest of the local authorities get on board. So, if you could answer those questions, please.

Diolch yn fawr, Peredur. Well, I do want to clarify the fact that we have a commitment by all 22 local authorities, which were made a year ago, to the Welsh benefits charter, and phase 1, all local authorities are committed to it. It's in their interest. They want to make sure that their citizens are accessing all the benefits they're entitled to. They want to make sure that they're accessing the council tax reduction scheme, the school essentials grant and free school meals, particularly this will help them in terms of all their objectives to support people and families and children in their communities. They're all on board for that, they're all delivering it, and many are already delivering on that one-stop shop to those three benefits. But they have their plan, and in working in partnership with our local authorities, as you know, they believe they can deliver the whole 22 authorities over this financial year to deliver that first phase.

Separately, and in addition to that commitment, we've responded to Policy in Practice and the Bevan Foundation, and indeed to local authorities like Neath Port Talbot, who've taken up Policy in Practice—that data analytics tool—to help identify who is entitled in their communities, in their council areas, to a whole range of other benefits. So, this is an addition I'm announcing today, this £550,000. I'm not going to repeat all the quotes I've got, but certainly the strength of support from the Welsh Local Government Association, which obviously includes local authorities where we have backing from all leaders across Wales to deliver on this. And it is a pilot. I've mentioned the fact that 12, possibly 14 now, are coming in under their own steam. It's a pilot to see, and Policy in Practice are so convinced that it will demonstrate that access to this data analytics tool will ensure that we can get that estimated £2 billion of unclaimed benefits taken up in Wales.

Move.

Oh. Mick Antoniw.

Sorry, do I need to—?

If you have anything to say, now is your time to say it, Cabinet Secretary.

Yes, I do, Llywydd. I do, Llywydd.

I'll call you now in a minute.

Elections are essential to our democracy, as is ensuring that as many people as possible participate in our democracy. We recognise that sometimes the process of registering to vote can be a barrier to people taking part in elections. So, we want to enable eligible voters to be added to the local government register without having to apply to do so—often referred to as automatic voter registration. I am proud that we in Wales are the first part of the United Kingdom to take this step. It is in this context that I am pleased to be bringing the Representation of the People (Electoral Registration without Applications) (Pilot Scheme) (Wales) Regulations 2025 before you today. I look forward to hearing the views of colleagues in the Chamber.

The regulations are made under powers conferred by the Elections and Elected Bodies (Wales) Act 2024. The Act gave Welsh Ministers powers to undertake pilot activity for a specified period of time across one or a number of electoral areas. It sets out that certain provisions of the Act cannot be fully commenced until pilot provision has been made in regulations and a report by the Electoral Commission into the operation of those regulations has been sent to the Welsh Ministers and laid before Senedd Cymru.

The purpose of the regulations is to allow three local authorities—Newport, Powys and Gwynedd—to undertake this piloting activity around electoral registration without application. Carmarthenshire is a fourth authority working within this pilot programme. However, it should be noted that because Carmarthenshire will not be adding people to the actual register, it is not included in these regulations. I am grateful to those authorities, the Association of Electoral Administrators and the Electoral Commission for their work in co-producing these pilots. The regulations provide that the piloting activity will take place between 17 January and 30 September 2025. The intention is to allow local authorities to use existing local data to identify and verify potential electors, before then adding them to the local government electoral register. We expect this data matching to take place by the end of spring.

Electors will be provided with a notice of registration that will inform them that they have 60 days in which to notify their local authority if they do not wish to be automatically registered, if they believe they are eligible to be anonymously registered, or if they believe they are not entitled to be registered. We expect these letters to be issued in late spring or early summer. This notice of registration will also provide other useful information to the elector, and in particular, making clear the distinction with registration for the parliamentary register, which would require application. No-one being added to the local government register for these pilots would be automatically registered for UK Parliament or police and crime commissioner elections. As this approach to registration will sit alongside the existing UK individual electoral registration system, the pilots will provide a valuable opportunity to consider how best to avoid voter confusion between the two registration approaches.

A further key consideration of the pilots is understanding the impact of registration without application on hard-to-reach groups, vulnerable voters and particularly those with grounds to register anonymously. Officials have held workshops with organisations representing vulnerable groups to outline the pilots and to discuss the safeguards they contain. They are keen to continue to meet any other groups interested in this work.

The pilot scheme will also require a full evaluation by the Electoral Commission, which will be presented to Welsh Ministers by the end of 2025. This will allow the Welsh Ministers to consider whether to roll this out across Wales, whether any adaptations are required, and the associated timescales.

I would like to thank the Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee for its consideration of this legislation. I would also like to thank the Senedd for your scrutiny and debate during the passage of the Elections and Elected Bodies (Wales) Act 2024, which provides the legal basis for these regulations. This led to helpful amendments, such as increasing the time period for electors to object to being registered to 60 days, as well as requiring that the open register is removed before automatic registration can be implemented in full across Wales. I look forward to hearing the views of Members.

Can I thank the Cabinet Secretary for the report? I welcome these particular regulations. In the past week, there was a report from the Institute for Public Policy Research that was looking exactly at this issue, bearing in mind the very low turnout within the UK general election. Of course, one of their key recommendations is the establishment of automatic registration. What was really disappointing in the report is that they made no mention whatsoever of how far advanced the Senedd is in the introduction of that. And that’s the point I’m making: this is absolutely groundbreaking legislation for the UK—and, I think, internationally—in terms of ensuring that we’re moving to a situation where the 400,000 people in Wales who are not on the electoral register actually get on that. It will give us the most democratic franchise, I think, in any part of the United Kingdom. In terms of these regulations, what engagement are you having with the UK Government over the work that is being done within Wales so that, in England and Scotland, there can be benefits there—I know they are equally concerned about the state of the electoral register, the number of people who are not on it—and then also to mention that our own franchise includes votes at 16 as well?

Cabinet Secretary, we on this side of the Chamber are of course open-minded to automatic registration as the current system does require local authorities to contact each household to verify existing electoral data or identify new voters who are then invited to apply to be on the register. However, the explanatory memorandum accompanying these regulations states that these regulations come at a combined cost of £1.3 million. I understand that almost £1.2 million of that is to be spent on implementing changes to the electoral management systems that support the process of registering electors. However, the explanatory memorandum explains that as this is a pilot scheme, it is not possible to quantify the exact costs of changes to the electoral management system software and that unforeseen costs as the changes are developed are likely. And on top of that, there are communication costs too.

Cabinet Secretary, this is a significant sum of money, and given the current climate and the Welsh Government’s repeated statements about its tight finances, we on this side of the Chamber are yet to be convinced that the Welsh Government should be spending so much money on these specific pilots. Therefore, perhaps in your response you could explain why these pilots are costing quite so much, and how the figure for the changes to the electoral management system software have actually been calculated. Indeed, I believe it would be sensible to publish a breakdown of how exactly this money will be spent.

Given that the explanatory memorandum explains that it’s likely there will be unforeseen costs, perhaps you could also tell us in your response how much the Welsh Government is willing to spend on these pilots. Is there a cap on these costs at all, and how much are you willing to spend on this issue? And perhaps you can also tell us why the Welsh Government is pushing these costly pilots now when I know that Cabinet Secretaries have made it very clear that they have limited funds available to them.

And Cabinet Secretary, you will know better than anyone just how tight finances are for local authorities, many of whom are cutting important community services. Therefore, I’m sure you’ll agree with me that £1.3 million between three local authorities could support a number of vital initiatives. And I’m sure if you ask senior leaders in Newport, Powys and Gwynedd, the automatic registration of voters would not be the first thing they’d choose to spend a share of £1.3 million from the Welsh Government on.

So, given the lack of clarity and transparency over these costs, unless you can provide further information this afternoon, we will be unable to support these regulations in their current form.

I’ll be speaking as Chair of the Local Government and Housing Committee following our scrutiny of the Elections and Elected Bodies (Wales) Act. I’m pleased, Cabinet Secretary, that, in response to our committee recommendation, you have chosen to pilot the arrangements in Gwynedd, Newport and Powys, thereby ensuring a variety of different geographical areas are involved. I think that’s very important to adequately test the new proposals and arrangements.

Also, Cabinet Secretary, raising public awareness of the pilots will be key. I wonder if you could say a little bit more about your plans to raise awareness ahead of the pilots, because, again, I believe that will be crucial.

One of the main concerns outlined in our report related to the need to safeguard vulnerable people from potential dangers, so we very much welcome the increase in the time frame for responding to a notice from 45 to 60 days, as that will provide more opportunity to respond. I'm pleased as well that organisations representing vulnerable groups have been involved, as you outlined earlier. I wonder if you could tell the Chamber whether those groups will also be involved in raising awareness, because I think that will be, again, significant.

The pilots will provide a crucial opportunity to test arrangements, and a thorough evaluation will be needed before implementing automatic registration across Wales. Could you confirm, then, Cabinet Secretary, whether evaluation will include assessing the accuracy and robustness of the data sources used to identify unregistered voters? Diolch yn fawr.

Cabinet Secretary, I welcome the regulations and the decision to pilot. I must say I find the Conservative concerns disingenuous, given the track record the Conservatives had in Government of voter suppression. They're not interested in enfranchising marginal voters, and the arguments that they put up in front of this, frankly, are crocodile tears.

My comments are intended to be broader. I think it's important the work this Government is doing to make procedural changes to make it easier for people to take part in elections. I think that is a very progressive move. But the evidence, particularly the work of the Democracy Box project, showed that many of the barriers people face about participating in our democracy are not technical ones. They are ones of engagement, they are ones where they feel they don't have a stake and they don't understand the process. The level of political education is rudimentary for many people.

While we are focusing on system fixes, I don't think we're doing enough to think about the much harder job of that granular engagement with people. The Democracy Box project did some brilliant work, showing how it was possible, through its pop-up activities and through its debating with people and explaining to people how they use the system to raise the issues that they care about, to reach people who currently are not included in the process. As the old saying goes, there's no such thing as hard-to-reach groups, it's just we're not trying hard enough to reach them.

I do think that across the whole piece of our democratic reform, from votes at 16 to this and beyond, we don't think enough about that behavioural intervention, the softer initiatives to go alongside the procedural changes. I wonder if you could say a little more about the Government's thinking about what it can do beyond the changes to the system to reach people who currently are not feeling inclined to engage in democratic processes.

Diolch, Llywydd. Thank you to Members for participating in this debate today and to the Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee for their thorough considerations of these regulations. I'd also like to put on record my thanks to my predecessor in this role, Mick Antoniw, for the work that he's done in this area. I recognise that I'm standing here today, but you've been in front of all the committees, being challenged, and I just want to say thank you for the work that you have done on this over the last few years as well in particular.

I do agree with you, it is absolutely groundbreaking and it is exciting. I've seen some of the reports that have gone on recently, as well, and I feel quite frustrated to see no mention of what we're doing here in Wales. So, I'm very keen to help to promote that, and I have also spoken to officials about how we can make sure the messages get across around this pilot to highlight some of the really good things that we are doing. I know that other parts of the country are looking very closely at what we're doing, as well as other countries.

Llywydd, am I able to cover a couple more points?

Yes, you are, most definitely.

On one of the points that Paul made, we have listened. During the passage of the Act, in line with some of the Conservative group's amendments, we increased the time period for electors to object to being registered from 45 days to 60. We have had opportunity to be engaged in this, and I think it's really important that we do have pilot projects. I think the three areas, with Carmarthenshire who have come forward themselves, are really diverse areas and I think we'll get really good information from that, going forward.

I'd like to thank John, as well, for his work on the committee and the work of the committee in particular. I think it's really important that we continue to focus on what we can do here in Wales.

And to Lee, absolutely, I think the work that Democracy Box has done is really exciting, as well. Those softer sides that we all must really care about are those behavioural interventions that we can make that go alongside this structural intervention. Because, at the end of the day, we need to increase participation in our democracy and we need to make it as easy as possible to take part.

Automatic registration is part of that wider package of electoral reform and helping to remove those barriers to registering to vote—that is important for our democratic health. My officials and I stand ready to engage and support local authorities and other stakeholders involved in the pilots and look forward to considering those results in due course. Diolch, Llywydd.

Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd. I would like to start by thanking everyone who contributed to our scrutiny of this important Bill. Our job as a committee was made easier by the high quality of written and oral evidence that we received. I’d also like to thank the Cabinet Secretary and his officials for their open approach to our scrutiny, my fellow committee members who engaged with the scrutiny with open minds, and a willingness to listen to each other and find the places of agreement, and finally, Heledd Fychan and Lee Waters, who joined us from the culture committee—a good example of how committees can work together on issues of shared interest.

It has been helpful to have the response to our recommendations ahead of the debate. I’m pleased that all 10 recommendations for the Welsh Government have been either fully accepted or accepted in principle. It is rare for a Government target, such as the one in 'Cymraeg 2050', to capture a wider imagination, but a million Welsh speakers by 2050 has. Yet, the last census results shows a decrease in the number of people saying they are Welsh speakers. It is clear that action is needed to put this decline into reverse. The Bill, we believe, will be an important mechanism to support delivery of this target. We are therefore recommending that the Senedd agrees the general principles of the Bill. But it will not be easy. It will involve every element of the education system striving with every sinew to deliver—that is the Welsh Government, local authorities, every school in Wales, regardless of its current language category, and all the organisations that support education and the Welsh language. We believe this Bill will establish the right architecture, including the introduction of a national framework that will inform local authority and school planning and delivery. The establishment of the national institute for learning Welsh will also play a critical role.

But the biggest barrier to delivering this Bill is having an education workforce with the right language skills across Wales  This is not going to be easy. We know there are currently shortages across Wales in a range of subjects, and these shortages are particularly challenging for some subjects in Welsh-medium schools. We recommended that the Welsh Government brings forward a statutory education workforce plan, as concerns extend beyond the Welsh language. We are calling for the Welsh Government to identify the most appropriate legislative mechanism to bring this forward, and that it looks at all elements of teacher recruitment and retention rather than looking at one element of the education workforce in isolation.

Yesterday, the Cabinet Secretary for Education announced the development of a strategic education workforce plan. In the response to our report, the Welsh Government said this plan will be non-statutory. We have already committed to look at teacher recruitment and retention later this year, and we will be following the development of this plan with close interest.

Another big theme throughout our scrutiny was the need for greater clarity on some key issues, including on how the distinction will be made between teaching Welsh as a subject and teaching through the medium of Welsh in the definition of Welsh language education; how much Welsh-medium provision is likely in the primarily Welsh language and dual-language school categories; what activities will count towards the current 10 per cent minimum of Welsh language provision in primary English language and partly Welsh schools; the role the tertiary education sector will play in the delivery of the national framework; and how the national institute will work with the wider tertiary education sector. As that list shows, there is some confusion at the heart of the Bill, in particular the definition of Welsh language education and the details around school categories. They are so central to the Bill, so greater clarity on these areas before we move to the amending stages will be helpful for all Members in considering any potential amendments. In his response, the Cabinet Secretary has committed to providing clarity on these issues in an updated explanatory memorandum, which I welcome.

Finally, we ask the Welsh Government to give further consideration to the evidence we heard calling for an additional school category to be added to the Bill, which would match the current non-statutory 3P designated Welsh-medium category. Could the Cabinet Secretary tell us whether his thinking on this issue has shifted as a result of the evidence we have heard?

I look forward to hearing contributions from other Members and to continuing with our scrutiny of the Bill if the general principles are agreed. Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd.

Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer. The committee's report on the Bill was published in December. I thank the Cabinet Secretary for issuing the Government's response to our report in advance of today's debate. The committee's report made 17 recommendations and drew one conclusion. I'll focus my comments on some of these recommendations.

The Cabinet Secretary told us that the Welsh Government are conducting a human rights assessment for the Bill. However, the relevant supporting documentation of the Bill makes no reference to this, and it was therefore unclear which of the rights in the European convention on human rights were considered by the Welsh Government assessments. We therefore recommend that the Welsh Government outline any assessment made by the Welsh Government of the Bill's engagement with the convention's rights. I note the Cabinet Secretary's confirmation in his response that the Welsh Government has considered all the relevant articles of the convention's rights. I also note that the Welsh Government considers the provisions are a proportionate means of achieving a legitimate aim, which is to ensure that all pupils reach the end of compulsory school age as independent Welsh language users.

We also made a number of recommendations in relation to the use of definitions in the Bill. The Bill doesn't include a definition of a Welsh speaker. In the committee's view, leaving out the definition risks undermining how meaningful some of the Bill's core provisions would be. We therefore call on the Cabinet Secretary to explain why the common reference level of Welsh language user, as set out in the Bill, has not been used at the basis for individuals to assess their language ability for the purpose of calculating the number of Welsh speakers in Wales. In his response, the Cabinet Secretary told the committee that a common reference level would not be used for this purpose, given that the Welsh Government believes it is up to the individual to decide whether they describe themselves as a Welsh speaker. However, the Government acknowledged that there would inevitably be a connection with the common reference levels over time as the Welsh Government sets Welsh language learning goals for schools.

Similarly, the Bill used the term 'Welsh language education' instead of the more established term 'Welsh-medium education'. Because of this, we called on the Cabinet Secretary to share with the committee any assessment undertaken by the Welsh Government on the potential impact this would have on the understanding and accessibility of the law. The Cabinet Secretary told us in his response that the definition is unambiguous. However, in light of the committee's recommendations, the Welsh Government intends to introduce an amendment during Stage 2 to make it clear that the definition of Welsh language education means education and training through school lessons.

The committee is broadly content with the balance between what is on the face of the Bill and what is left to subordinate legislation. It also broadly welcomes the level of detail provided in the statement of policy intent. However, the committee questioned the Welsh Government’s taking of regulation-making powers in order to 'futureproof' legislation, and called on the Cabinet Secretary to explain why the Bill does not include some provisions on its face. In particular, we called on the Cabinet Secretary to explain what types of further provisions regulations under subsection (1) of section 13 of the Bill could include, and recommended that the Cabinet Secretary consider which further limitations may be placed on the power within this section. We note the Cabinet Secretary’s response that, although it is premature to give a comprehensive list of what could be included in regulations under this section, it could be used to make provision for how schools should categorise themselves during a transitional period.

In addition, the committee raised its concerns about the Henry VIII power in subsection (9) of section 23 of the Bill, which enables the Welsh Ministers to amend its subsections (3) to (7). The committee viewed this to be an inappropriate delegation of power, and recommended that the Bill should be amended to include a duty for the Welsh Ministers to consult before laying regulations under section 23 of the Bill. In addition, we recommended that the Bill should also be amended to require that regulations made under that section must not be made until 60 days have elapsed since the laying of the draft regulations. We note the Welsh Government has rejected these two recommendations.

Finally, the committee also recommended that the Welsh Government should consider amending the Bill to include further information about joint local Welsh in education strategic plans to provide more certainty and to improve accessibility. We note that the Welsh Government believes that there is no need to amend the Bill, but will provide further information in the Bill’s supporting documentation. Diolch. 

Thank you very much. I'm learning Welsh, and language is the heart of the nation. If the language dies, the nation dies. So, if that is our message to the public, to people, I'm sure they all will be speaking Welsh. Thank you.

I must say, I'm quite struck by the tone of the debate being markedly different from the tone in the committee, and perhaps that's just the nature of the temperature in the Chamber versus the temperature in the committee room. I was pleased to be part of the committee process, because I thought it was very good scrutiny, and it was cross-party consensual scrutiny. We all genuinely looked for those areas where we could find common ground and we had some very high-quality sessions with the Cabinet Secretary where we discussed both the principle and the detail of the proposed legislation.

I've come out of that process feeling quite optimistic myself about our ability as a Senedd to make policy in what is a very difficult and challenging area. Let us not underestimate how ambitious a Bill this is, and give full credit to Plaid Cymru, because were it not for the co-operation agreement, this Bill wouldn't have come forward. Obviously, it's gone through with agreement, and it's something we all sign up to, but that is something I think they can take great pride in in getting us to this stage, and getting in law the 2050 1 million Welsh speakers target. When you put it in the context of the global position of minority languages, minority languages are hugely fragile around the world, and what we're trying to do here is I think a uniquely ambitious and challenging agenda of trying to reverse that trend. It is not easy, and I think we should take some comfort from the fact that it is hard, but that we are doing it together, and that we are ambitious for it.

This inevitably is a Bill that focuses on the education system, but this is not primarily an education problem; this is a cultural policy where we're asking the education system to deliver for us. The education system is being asked also by us to deliver lots of other things, and that puts huge strain on the education system and on the workforce. I think we should recognise the challenges that presents. I was very pleased to see, on a slightly less sour note than Cefin Campbell, the written statement on Monday by the Cabinet Secretary for Education on the commitment to develop a workforce plan, which was a recommendation of the committee report—not just the Welsh language workforce, the whole workforce, because we recognised there are a range of pressures. But obviously, the Welsh language workforce is critical, and I'm pleased to note the Cabinet Secretary's reassurances on that as well.

But we do absolutely rely on the workforce, and particularly in those schools that are primarily English medium at the moment. Those are the children I think who have been short-changed the greatest in this great cultural agenda of ours. Because frankly, if you go to an English-medium school, your chance of coming out at the end of it being able to have a meaningful conversation in Welsh is quite low. What it also does is breed a resentment and bitterness amongst many pupils who go to the school that they had a poor-quality education and a poor experience where they don't understand why they're being subjected to this. I've had many conversations with young people in Llanelli who reflect that, and I must say it's pretty disheartening. So, it's essential that we focus on the quality of English-medium provision, and the quality of the whole system to get us up to the common standard. So, I'm very pleased with the progress that we've been able to make through co-operation in getting us to this point.

I just want to focus a little bit on one element of the Bill, namely that section 5, the new standardised framework for describing Welsh language ability, the so-called CEFR, the common European framework of reference for languages, a Council of Europe framework that is used around the world and hitherto has not been widely adopted in our country. I think it's a very positive development. It's used in the Basque Country and in Finland, and it sets categories of language development that puts it on a spectrum and a continuum, which I think is very healthy. It talks of a basic level, which it calls A1 one and A2, then moves up to what it categorises as the independent user, B1 and B2, and then finally, a proficient user, C1 and C2. And I must say, I think it's really positive to move away from the previous binary categorisation we had of a confident or a fluent speaker and a learner, which I have always found very unsettling.

That's the thing I like about this framework: it moves us away from that sense of a binary distinction, and I think it helps. It'll help employers, it'll help people with their own baggage and their own journey as a Welsh speaker to recognise we can all speak some Welsh, and we can all speak a little bit more. We are all Welsh speakers, because we are a nation and, together, this is a unique characteristic that we must cherish. I think this Bill is an important step forward. Diolch yn fawr.

I agree very much with Lee Waters's point that the CEFR is a major development of our thinking here in Wales, moving us away from that very unhelpful binary: are you a Welsh speaker or are you not? I think this will be really helpful in the workplace, as well. We will see, in future, jobs advertised that don't have to choose between 'Welsh essential' and 'Welsh desirable', but will be able to say, 'We're looking for someone who can speak Welsh at level C3, C2'—whatever it would be—that matches the level of Welsh that someone has with the nature of the job that they will be undertaking. Mike Hedges made the point that, in the end, the Government has stuck to a basic principle that it's not for the Government to decide whether somebody is a Welsh speaker or not; in Wales, it is for the individual in the end to make that judgment. But that common European framework will allow people to make that judgment about themselves, secure that you are using a system that other people recognise and is a shared sense of what to be a Welsh speaker in Wales, in different contexts, will be.

There are many more aspects of the Bill that we will discuss, I'm sure, during—