National Assembly for Wales

Prynhawn da a chroeso, bawb, i’r Cyfarfod Llawn. Yr eitem gyntaf ar ein hagenda ni y prynhawn yma fydd y cwestiynau i Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet dros Gyllid a’r Gymraeg, ac mae'r cwestiwn cyntaf gan Buffy Williams.

Llywydd, the draft budget invests an extra £1.5 billion in public services and growth in Wales. We cannot undo 14 years of damage in just one budget, but our proposals will help Rhondda residents dealing, for example, with food poverty, child poverty and domestic violence—a cause that the Member has done so much to highlight.

We know that the cost of living is still biting, with rents, mortgages and energy costs still at an unsustainable level for too many families. Earlier this week, like very many charities and community groups across the country, Canolfan Pentre finished preparations to support families this Christmas and over the winter months. We know that this work is invaluable for the Government and life-changing for families and children who receive the support. How will this investment, announced as part of the draft budget, continue to support the third sector, and will the discretionary assistance fund and debt advice support be maintained for families? Thank you.

Llywydd, I thank Buffy Williams for that and congratulate her and thank all those friends and supporters who will have been involved in the work that she outlined, supporting families, and particularly children, over the Christmas period. The budget does indeed provide a number of additional investments to help with that work. There is an additional £1 million for the discretionary assistance fund, taking it to £40 million for next year. There is £1.5 million for investment in warm hubs to help people to keep warm, to keep fed, and to have a place to meet others and to socialise over this winter.

The single advice fund budget to which Buffy Williams referred continues at £12 million in 2025-26, and there will be an additional £1.9 million as Wales's share in the debt levy. My colleague Jane Hutt has already made it clear that we intend to tender for a further three years of grant funding for the single advice fund from April of next year—a clear demonstration of our commitment to go on providing those information and advice services that make such a difference in the lives of so many families in the Rhondda and far beyond.

Cabinet Secretary, according to their statement of accounts, Rhondda Cynon Taf Country Borough Council has just over £255 million in usable reserves. These vast reserves are sat in a bank account while there are residents in the Rhondda and elsewhere in the county borough struggling to make ends meet. What is worse is that the Labour-run council has voted again to increase its council tax next year by just under 5 per cent. Do you agree with me that it is immoral for this council to have such vast reserves when there are people living within Rhondda Cynon Taf who will be deciding whether or not to heat their homes or have a warm meal this Christmas? Thank you.

Well, Llywydd, the level of reserves for any local authority is a matter for the local authority, not for me, and the local authority is answerable to its local population, and it is the people of the Rhondda who will decide whether or not the council has done a good job when that council is up for election again in 2025. We know that the picture is often more complicated than the question implied. When the Member says 'usable reserves', they may be usable because the council has a number of projects in mind—plans, as RCT quite certainly has, to invest in twenty-first century schools, and parts of those reserves will be there because they're earmarked for use in the future.

Llywydd, diolch yn fawr i John Griffiths am y cwestiwn. Mae'r Gymraeg yn perthyn i ni i gyd ac i bob rhan o Gymru. Rydym ni wedi lansio ail gam y Comisiwn Cymunedau Cymraeg ac rydym ni’n gweithio gyda phartneriaid ledled dwyrain Cymru. Bydd cyfle i drafod a dathlu hyn yn Eisteddfod Genedlaethol Wrecsam yn 2025 ac, wrth gwrs, Eisteddfod yr Urdd, Casnewydd yn 2027.

Natasha Asghar.

Un grŵp sy'n—

O, na, mae'n ddrwg gyda fi. Mae'n ddrwg gyda fi, John Griffiths. John Griffiths i ofyn ei gwestiwn atodol.

I'll come to you, Natasha. John Griffiths.

Un grŵp sy'n gwneud gwaith gwych i annog defnydd o'r Gymraeg yw Clwb Cymraeg Casnewydd—grŵp bach o bobl o bob oed a chefndir sy'n cyfarfod yn rheolaidd yng nghanol y ddinas i ymarfer y Gymraeg mewn sefyllfaoedd go iawn gyda dysgwyr a siaradwyr eraill. Mae'r grŵp yn helpu i roi profiad i bobl o drafod pethau bob dydd sy'n bwysig iddyn nhw, mewn cymaint o Gymraeg ag y gallan nhw, i gwrdd â phobl newydd, ac, efallai'n bwysicach oll, i wneud camgymeriadau a dysgu oddi wrthyn nhw. Y profiad o ddysgu y tu allan i'r ystafell ddosbarth yw lle mae'r cynnydd gwirioneddol yn cael ei wneud o ran dysgu iaith. Fyddai Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet yn cytuno efo fi fod y cyfarfodydd yma yn rhywbeth y dylem ni ei werthfawrogi i helpu i ddatblygu a thyfu'r iaith?

Diolch yn fawr i John Griffiths am y cwestiwn ychwanegol, Llywydd. A diolch iddo fe am yr esiampl y mae e'n ei rhoi o'r defnydd o'r Gymraeg. Wrth gwrs, dwi'n cytuno gyda fe pan fydd e'n dweud diolch i Glwb Cymraeg Casnewydd am eu gwaith. Mae'n hyfryd gweld pobl yn dod at ei gilydd fel hyn i gymdeithasu yn Gymraeg ac yn ei wneud e fel gwirfoddolwyr. Fel dwi'n deall, mae'r clwb yn gyfle i bobl ddefnyddio'r Gymraeg ble bynnag y maen nhw ar eu siwrnai iaith. Maen nhw'n dangos pwysigrwydd ymarfer a defnyddio'r Gymraeg, ac, wrth gwrs, gwneud camgymeriadau, achos trwy wneud camgymeriadau y mae pobl yn dysgu defnyddio unrhyw iaith yn well. So, wrth gwrs, dwi'n cytuno â'r Aelod am bwysigrwydd y gwaith y mae Clwb Cymraeg Casnewydd yn ei wneud, a dwi'n siŵr y byddan nhw, a phobl eraill yng Nghasnewydd, yn edrych ymlaen i weld Eisteddfod yr Urdd yn yr ardal am y tro cyntaf, yn 2027.

Cabinet Secretary, when I recently raised the issue of the Welsh language-only digital variable signs on the M4, you said it had the sound of an urban myth. Following our exchange, an abundance of motorists and constituents contacted me, highlighting specific examples of when this was actually happening, and I know both the Cabinet Secretary for transport and you have been receiving similar correspondence, because I often have been copied into these e-mails. I want to be clear, Presiding Officer, that this isn't an attack on the Welsh language at all; it is in fact a plea to ensure that we have fully bilingual variable signs in operation as a matter of safety. In response to one of the e-mails from a constituent, the Welsh Government debunked any hint of this being an urban myth. The official said, and I quote:

'Sometimes, this is not always possible due to a lack of additional signs on motorway junctions or some signs may have faults in them. Many of the variable message signs on the M4 are beyond their working life and spaces are no longer available. The defective signs have been programmed for replacement subject to funding being made available'.

So, Cabinet Secretary, I think we can both agree that it's not an urban myth. So, will you please kindly look into this matter and commit to working with colleagues to ensure funding is released urgently to repair these defective signs? Thank you.

Llywydd, the Cabinet Secretary for transport heard what the Member had to say the last time she raised this matter, and she's received, I can see, a very constructive reply from that department, outlining what they intend to do. It is no different for me whether somebody who would prefer to get their information in the Welsh language has to rely entirely on an English road sign than it is if somebody who prefers to get their information in English sees a sign in Welsh. Both languages are of equal status and equal value here in Wales. And I don't agree with what I continue to believe to be the thrust behind her question—that, somehow, it's more important to have a sign in English than it is to have one in Welsh.

Following the National Eisteddfod being held in Wrexham back in 2011, there was an increase in the number of people both learning and using Cymraeg. And, as you said in your original answer, Cabinet Secretary, next year, once again, Wrexham is very proudly hosting the National Eisteddfod. What plans do the Welsh Government have to work with the local authority, and other partners, to ensure that we use this opportunity to reach the target of 1 million Welsh speakers by 2050, and would you agree with me, also, that Wrexham council can learn some lessons from the way Labour-controlled Rhondda Cynon Taf council delivered for this year’s National Eisteddfod in Pontypridd?

Well, I thank Lesley Griffiths very much for that question. She’s absolutely right—I think the Eisteddfod in Pontypridd was an outstanding success. It was enthusiastically embraced by the local authority, and by its outstanding leader, Councillor Andrew Morgan. I’m quite sure that the National Eisteddfod itself will have taken the learning that was to be collected from that experience in Pontypridd and will want to put it to work with colleagues in Wrexham. And I look forward, certainly, with all those local players who are already making enormous efforts to prepare for that Eisteddfod and to make it a success, I look forward to working with them and with other partners to make sure that, having the National Eisteddfod there in Wrexham, in a part of Wales where the Welsh language is not as in frequent use as in some other parts, gives a long-lasting boost to the language in that part of Wales. And I look forward very much to being with the Member for Wrexham on the maes later, in August next year.

Cwestiynau nawr gan lefarwyr y pleidiau. Llefarydd y Ceidwadwyr, Peter Fox. 

Diolch, Llywydd. Cabinet Secretary, as we know, one of the first things that the new Labour Government did was to strip 500,000 Welsh pensioners of their winter fuel payments. Many believe this was a shameful decision and will place people at risk, leaving many of them with a choice between heating and eating this winter. Only last week, the older people’s commissioner called for a distinct fund for older people to mitigate the removal of this incredibly vital support, amid what she called extreme anxiety, anger and distress. We have seen a change of approach in Scotland, with their Government undoing, in part, some of the cuts in Westminster. Cabinet Secretary, can I therefore ask why no specific Welsh fund was considered in Wales to help those pensioners who really need the support but who fall just short of the pension credit threshold? And will you commit to reconsidering this through the budget process?

Well, Llywydd, a comparison with Scotland is not a sensible one. Scotland has both powers in the welfare field that do not reside here in the Senedd, and it is funded to discharge those responsibilities. And my difficulty of principle with what the Member has suggested is that money that comes to Wales comes here to fulfil the responsibilities that lie in this Senedd. And I’ve never thought it is a sensible thing to do to divert money that is here for our responsibilities to cover responsibilities that lie elsewhere.

The decision that was made in relation to the winter fuel allowance, as I’ve heard the First Minister explain many times, is a decision made by the UK Government for which they have to be answerable. Here in Wales, we do use the powers we have to provide additional help for people who face difficulty this winter, whether that is through the warm hubs scheme, whether that is in the help that’s available for fuel bills. We do that, however, by using the responsibilities that lie here in the Senedd and the money that is available to us to discharge them, rather than thinking that we can go on making up for difficulties in funding that isn’t available for other responsibilities that don’t belong here.

Thank you, Cabinet Secretary. I was hardly expecting every pensioner to have it reimbursed, but some sort of scheme that could have helped those who are just falling above the threshold, who are really feeling it, and I’ve had many of those come in to see me in my own constituency. However, I understand your position now.  

Moving on, as I have said many times before, Cabinet Secretary, the UK Labour Government’s decision to implement a rise in national insurance contributions for businesses was not only a breach of their manifesto commitment, but it is also going to be incredibly detrimental for any hope of growth that businesses in Wales may have. This has already been articulated to me by many businesses, especially last week. That being said, it is not only businesses who need to pay this, but public sector bodies, who employ the equivalent of 10 per cent of the population, will also have to pay this tax rise. Now, I know the Chancellor has confirmed that additional money will be coming to Wales to pay for this increase. However, yesterday’s draft budget statement was still vague on detail. Cabinet Secretary, when will we get clarity so that the fear of public services having to cover a portion or all of this cost will be removed?

Well, Llywydd, I don’t think that the draft budget was vague on the subject; the draft budget was silent on the subject, because there isn’t information that I have that allowed me to take account of any additional funding that will come from the UK Government to help those public service employees with national insurance contributions. We will not know from the UK Government how much money will come to Wales for those purposes until the Chancellor says in May or June of next year. What I have said, and I'll say it again this afternoon, and I said it to local authority leaders earlier in the week, for these purposes the Welsh Government will simply act as a post box. The money that comes to us for these purposes will simply leave us directly to go to those employers who have been covered by the Chancellor’s decision. We won’t divert the money anywhere, we’re not going to use it for anything else. Every penny that comes to us for this reason will go directly to those employers and it will go as fast as the money arrives with us. The Senedd will see it in the second supplementary budget, where it will be reported to Members in the usual way.

Thank you for that clarity and that is helpful, but there still will be anxiety on councils just in case not all the money comes down the M4 that we are hoping for or you’re hoping for, and that will affect the sorts of decisions they’re going to have to make now when they set their own budget. So, clarity is really important and it’s hoped that the UK Government can indicate more to you sooner rather than later.

Whilst we’re talking about local government, we’ve seen today that the settlements have been announced, as you shared here in this Chamber yesterday. There's a 4.3 per cent average increase, around £250 million, which is an important increase, however a long way short of the £560 million pressure that local authorities are facing. However, I doubt they were expecting all of that. However, the 4.3 per cent increase, as you also acknowledged, throws up winners and losers, and we see in Newport a 5.3 per cent increase, which will be very welcome, while in counties like Monmouthshire, we only see 2.8 per cent. Now, I know you said this settlement would save councils from the brink, but we know some will still be facing a real cliff edge, and clearly this again demonstrates that the funding formula needs to be revisited. Cabinet Secretary, will you consider implementing a funding floor this year to protect those who are most under pressure, recognising the disparity between the lowest and the highest?

Well, I thank Peter Fox for that important final question. He’s absolutely right: the funding formula, at an average of 4.3 per cent, always has some local authorities who do better than that and some who will not do as well. He knows that the funding formula, complex as it is, is really driven by only two factors that cover the vast bulk of the formula. If your population is rising, the amount of money you get through the formula goes up with it; if the number of children entering schools is going down, the formula reflects that as well. It is demographically driven, the formula, and then it has a more complex set of other factors that it takes into account.

I am aware of the gap that exists between 5.6 at the top of the distribution range and 2.8 at the bottom. I’ve undertaken to hold further discussions with my colleague Jane Bryant in the period between draft and final to see if there is anything further that we could do, to further support those councils that find themselves at the less advantageous end of that spectrum.

Llefarydd Plaid Cymru, Heledd Fychan.

Diolch, Llywydd. Dwi’n siŵr eich bod yn gwerthfawrogi pam ein bod ni, fel gwrthbleidiau, yn codi yswiriant gwladol gymaint o weithiau. Mi wnes i godi hwn ddoe. Dwi’n gwerthfawrogi eich bod chi wedi sôn yn eich ymateb i Peter Fox na fyddwch yn gwybod yn union tan fis Mai neu Fehefin. Ond, a gaf i ofyn, pa drafodaethau ydych chi wedi'u cael gyda’r Canghellor o ran cael y cymorth ychwanegol hwnnw? Rydyn ni’n gwybod am y llu o lythyrau rydyn ni’n eu derbyn gan y trydydd sector, GPs ac ati. Felly, fyddech chi’n gallu rhoi mewnwelediad i ni o ran ydych chi’n disgwyl gweld unrhyw newid, neu ai dyma fel fydd hi?

Wel, wrth gwrs, Llywydd, mae Gweinidogion fan hyn yn cymryd cyfleon i godi pethau fel hyn gyda’r Canghellor a gyda Gweinidogion eraill yn y Trysorlys. Rydyn ni’n gwybod bod y Prif Weinidog wedi cael cyfle i siarad â Keir Starmer yng Nghaeredin ddydd Gwener diwethaf am nifer o bynciau sy’n berthnasol i ni yng Nghymru yn y maes cyllid. Ces i gyfle i siarad yn uniongyrchol â Phrif Ysgrifennydd y Trysorlys nôl ym mis Hydref. Bydd y CST yma yng Nghymru yn gynnar yn y flwyddyn newydd, a bydd mwy o gyfleon i godi'r pynciau y mae pobl wedi’u codi gyda ni. Ac wrth gwrs, dwi’n siŵr y bydd y Canghellor yn clywed yn union yr un pwyntiau gan bobl yn Lloegr hefyd. So, lan iddi hi fydd e, ar ddiwedd y dydd, i wneud y penderfyniadau ar faint o bobl y mae hi’n gallu helpu gyda’r mater yswiriant, ond mae hi’n hollol ymwybodol o'r pwyntiau y mae'r sectorau wedi'u codi gyda ni yma yng Nghymru.

Gan obeithio, felly, y bydd hi’n gwrando arnoch chi, a chithau o'r un blaid. Heb eglurder gan y Trysorlys, felly, o ran hyn, sut allwch chi fod yn sicr o’r asesiad effaith integredig strategol a gyhoeddwyd i gyd-fynd efo cyllideb ddoe? A pha asesiad ydych chi wedi’i wneud o ran faint o gyllideb ddoe fydd yn mynd nôl i’r Trysorlys, gan y bydd yn cael ei wario i lenwi’r bwlch sydd wedi’i greu oherwydd y newidiadau i yswiriant gwladol?

Llywydd, dwi’n meddwl ei fod yn bwysig i ddweud bod arian yn mynd nôl i’r Trysorlys bob dydd ar ôl penderfyniadau mae’r Llywodraeth yn San Steffan yn eu gwneud. Pan, er enghraifft, fydd y Llywodraeth yn San Steffan yn codi’r real living wage—rhywbeth rydyn ni’n ei groesawu fan hyn, wrth gwrs—bydd mwy o bobl yn talu treth incwm, ac mae hwnna’n mynd nôl i’r Trysorlys. Mae hwnna jest yn rhywbeth sy’n digwydd bob dydd o ran y penderfyniadau sydd y tu ôl i’r cyllid sydd gennym ni i'w wario yma yng Nghymru. Pan fydd pobl yn y trydydd sector yn prynu pethau i’w defnyddio, maen nhw’n talu VAT. Bydd yr arian yn mynd nôl i’r Trysorlys. Mae jest yn rhan o sut mae pethau yn digwydd yn y maes cyllid. So, dydyn ni ddim wedi gwneud gwaith i drio ffeindio mas yn fanwl faint o arian sy’n cael ei godi yma yng Nghymru yn y ffordd yna sy’n mynd nôl i’r Trysorlys. Mae ffigurau ar gael, ac mae’r ffigurau yn dangos, fel maen nhw’n dweud,

Welsh citizens make a greater tax effort than any other part of the United Kingdom.

Ond mae’n rhaid eich bod chi wedi clywed yr hyn mae pobl fel Citizens Advice yn ei ddweud ynglŷn â’r toriadau fyddan nhw’n gorfod eu gwneud i staff. Os yw pobl ddim efo swyddi, dydyn nhw'n methu cyfrannu i’r economi. Dwi’n meddwl bod deall beth ydy effaith y newidiadau yswiriant gwladol ar gyllideb Cymru a faint sydd ar gael yn bwysig. Roeddech chi’n sôn am ddyfodol disglair o ran cyllideb ddoe. Os ydych chi’n edrych ar ddadansoddiad sydd wedi’i wneud gan y Wales Governance Centre, ac fe wnaf ddyfynnu fan hyn, maen nhw’n sôn,

'After this year's "big" budget, next year's budget round promises to be more difficult, and might feel like a return to austerity for some public services.'

Felly, mae yna bryderon mawr gan bobl niwtral sydd yn dadansoddi pethau fan hyn o ran sefyllfa ariannol Cymru. Fyddech chi’n gallu rhoi yr eglurder hwnna i ni, oherwydd mae’n bwysig ein bod ni’n gwybod ydy’r asesiad oedd yn cyd-fynd efo’r gyllideb yn un gynrychioliadol efo effaith yswiriant gwladol yn benodol?

Well, Llywydd, I was trying to respond to the specific point I thought the Member had raised, as to whether or not we had made an assessment of the extent to which money that comes to Wales ends up being returned to the Treasury. I was simply trying to explain that that is just part of the normal way in which money flows across the UK economy. The different assessments that you will find that accompany the budget do not take into account fully the impact of national insurance contributions rises, because, as I say, we do not yet have certainty as to how many employees in Wales will be covered directly by the money that the Treasury will provide. And as for anxieties about next year's budget, my job at the moment is to make sure we make the maximum use of the opportunity that comes with the budget for the following financial year. I look forward to the Chancellor's spring statement. I look forward to being able to give certainty to local government and other organisations that depend upon funding that we provide, so that they can plan over a three and four-year horizon to make the very most of the significant opportunity that has come our way as a result of the draft budget.

Diolch yn fawr i Rhys ab Owen am y cwestiwn, Llywydd. Mae cynllun strategol Cymraeg mewn addysg Cyngor Caerdydd yn ymrwymo, erbyn 2031, i gynyddu canran y dysgwyr sy'n dysgu drwy gyfrwng y Gymraeg i 27 y cant, cynnydd o 9 y cant. Cafodd yr awdurdod adborth ar ei adroddiad cynnydd blynyddol yr wythnos diwethaf, ac mae cyfarfod dilynol wedi'i gynllunio.

Diolch yn fawr, Ysgrifennydd Cabinet. Nawr, byddwch chi'n ymwybodol o'r ymgyrch i sefydlu'r bedwaredd ysgol uwchradd Gymraeg yng Nghaerdydd. Byddwch chi hefyd yn ymwybodol o ymateb Cyngor Caerdydd sy'n dweud bod yna ddigon o lefydd mewn addysg uwchradd Gymraeg am y pum mlynedd nesaf. Ond rŷm ni'n gweld bod ysgolion cymunedol—. Rŷch chi wedi sôn o leiaf ddwywaith fan hyn yn y Senedd am ysgol fel Ysgol Treganna, ysgol gymunedol yn cynyddu o 11 o blant i dros 900 o blant. Does dim un bws yn mynd i Ysgol Treganna, sy'n beth rhyfedd i ni sydd fan hyn a oedd wedi cael ein 'bus-io' am oriau bob dydd i addysg Gymraeg. 

Beth sy'n anghyfforddus yw bod yna blant o dde Caerdydd, maen nhw i gyd yn gorfod croesi'r ddinas o'r ardaloedd mwyaf difreintiedig yng Nghaerdydd, yn gorfod croesi'r ddinas er mwyn derbyn addysg Gymraeg. Mae hyn heb ystyried trafferthion cael eu derbyn i'r ysgol uwchradd na'r trafferthion o ran sicrhau trafnidiaeth ar draws y ddinas. Mae hyn yn rhesymol yn bownd o roi rhieni off anfon eu plant i addysg Gymraeg. Felly, sut ydych chi'n mynd i sicrhau, Ysgrifennydd Cabinet, fod y Gymraeg wirioneddol yn iaith i bawb, bod pawb yn gallu darllen yr arwyddion diffygiol a gafodd eu sôn amdanynt yn y cwestiwn cyntaf, ond yn enwedig pobl o ardaloedd difreintiedig a mwyaf aml-ethnig ein prifddinas? Diolch yn fawr.

Diolch yn fawr am y cwestiwn ychwanegol. Dwi'n deall y pwyntiau mae'r Aelod yn eu codi a'r pryderon sydd gan rieni yn ne'r ddinas yn benodol. Mae jest yn wir i ddweud bod yr awdurdod lleol yn wynebu dau fater gwahanol o ffaith: yn gyntaf, y gyfradd genedigaeth sy'n gostwng ledled Cymru ac sydd ar ei hisaf ers cyhoeddi data cymharol am y tro cyntaf yn 1929. Mae hynny yn cael effaith nawr ar y nifer—nid y canran, ond y nifer—o blant sy'n mynd i mewn i addysg drwy gyfrwng y Gymraeg yng Nghaerdydd. Hefyd, mae'n ffaith bod gan un o'r tair ysgol uwchradd Gymraeg yng Nghaerdydd nifer o lefydd gwag, ac mae hynny yn creu cyd-destun anodd i'r cyngor er gwaethaf y twf llwyddiannus mewn addysg Gymraeg yng Nghaerdydd. 

Serch hynny, mae WESP yr awdurdod lleol yn rhagweld y posibilrwydd o ysgol o'r fath, a dwi wedi gofyn i'm swyddogion drafod hyn yn uniongyrchol gyda Chyngor Caerdydd mewn cyfarfod i drafod adroddiad adolygu blynyddol yr awdurdod, ac yn cynnwys trafnidiaeth fel rhan o'r trafodaethau.  

Minister, a lot of the policy areas around education obviously sit with the Cabinet Secretary for Education, but today the Public Accounts and Public Administration Committee have brought a report out about the supply of cover teachers and temporary teaching staff in schools. That requires joined-up thinking between yourself, who is the Minister responsible for the Welsh language, and obviously the education Secretary. The three issues that they covered, importantly, were the decline in the number of teachers who cover locum work in schools, down by 16 per cent; the ability to have a national portal for the provision of schools to buy into to get cover when teachers aren't in schools; and, in particular, the acute issue of providing specialist cover in Welsh-medium schools, so that the teachers can benefit the pupils by giving them a rounded educational experience. What work will you be doing with the education Secretary to address the concerns that the public accounts committee have identified in Welsh-medium education, so that pupils can thrive with a fully qualified teacher in front of them?

Can I thank Andrew R.T. Davies for those important points? They echo points that our colleague Mike Hedges has often made on the floor of the Senedd about the nature of supply and cover teaching here in Wales. I work closely with my colleague Lynne Neagle on the Welsh Language and Education (Wales) Bill, which I am responsible for taking through the Senedd. Stage 1 of that Bill has been in front of three different Senedd committees. All three are due to report by the end of this week, I believe, or the start of next week, on their conclusions as a result of Stage 1 scrutiny. I know, from having followed carefully the evidence given to the Children, Young People and Education Committee particularly, that the issue of the workforce has been regularly in front of the committee. I look forward to seeing what that committee has to say, along with the public accounts committee, and to working with my colleague Lynne Neagle on finding solutions to the issues that the Member has highlighted this afternoon.

Overall investment in general medical services has increased in cash terms year on year through negotiated settlements agreed with British Medical Association Cymru Wales representatives.   

Thank you for your response, Cabinet Secretary. You will be aware, with one of your previous roles, of the inverse care law, the fact that those people who are in most need of health services are often those who are least able to access those health services. Cardiff University has recently highlighted that that inverse care law is being perpetuated by the funding that GP practices receive in Wales. Cardiff University have shown that GP practices in our poorest communities are actually getting the lowest levels of funding, despite the fact that those are serving people who have the most health needs. Indeed, one affected GP, Dr Jonny Currie, has said:

'Discovering practices in areas such as ours are structurally under-funded comes as a shock. We hope this research encourages our professional body and colleagues in Welsh Government to find ways of reversing this inequity urgently, before further potential harm is caused.'

I'm sure, Cabinet Secretary, you'll be disappointed to hear that that's taking place in terms of GP funding here in Wales, so I'd be interested to know what you will be doing to ensure that funding for GPs in Wales is fair, ensuring that people who need those health services most are able to access those.

I thank the Member for that further question. He's right to point to the fact that Julian Tudor Hart's work on the inverse care law is probably the single most well-known piece of research in primary care in the whole of the twentieth century. It was, for those of us who were here and remember it, very much part of the Townsend formula reforms that were introduced in a very early session of this Senedd.

The research to which the Member refers, I believe, is research into a project that is funded through the Welsh Government, and it's designed to make sure that we are able to marshal our resources to those places where they are most needed. I know that the Cabinet Secretary for health, in a debate here on the floor of the Senedd, made a commitment to ensuring that, should more money become available, that will be used, in part, to address the imbalance that is there between different parts of Wales as a priority for future funding decisions, learning the lessons from that very important project to which Sam Rowlands made reference.

Yn ystod y drafodaeth ddoe ar y gyllideb, fe glywsom ni'r Aelod dros Flaenau Gwent, Alun Davies, yn dweud mai'r hyn oedd yn bwysig i'w etholwyr o ym Mlaenau Gwent oedd eu bod nhw'n cael gweld meddyg teulu pan fo'r angen yn codi. Ers 2012, mi ydym ni wedi gweld 100 o feddygfeydd yn cau yma yng Nghymru, a mwy o feddygon teulu yn ymddeol yn gynnar neu'n gadael y wlad oherwydd nad oes ganddyn nhw'r adnoddau angenrheidiol er mwyn cario allan eu gwaith. Mae hynny oherwydd bod y gyfran o'r pres sy'n mynd i feddygon teulu llawer yn llai—tua 5 y cant o'r gyllideb iechyd erbyn hyn, yn lle'r ffigwr hanesyddol o tua 8 y cant. Felly, pryd gallwn ni weld y gyfran o'r pres sydd yn mynd at feddygon teulu yn cynyddu er mwyn sicrhau bod etholwyr Alun Davies a fy etholwyr i, ac etholwyr Cymru gyfan, yn medru gweld meddygon yma yng Nghymru?

Fel y dywedais i, pan gododd y pwynt yma mewn dadl ar lawr y Senedd fis diwethaf, wrth ymateb i'r ddadl roedd Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet dros iechyd wedi esbonio ei bod hi, ar ôl y cyfnod COVID, wedi bod yn angenrheidiol inni ariannu ysbytai i ddelio gyda'r bobl a oedd yn aros am driniaeth. Fel y dywedodd e yn y ddadl yna,

'Redressing this imbalance'—the imbalance between primary and secondary care and between those parts of Wales where the inverse care law is to be found—

'will be a priority for future...funding decisions'.

I was present at the seminar that was organised by the Deep End project, and I think it's very useful that these groups of GPs have got together. I was very interested to read in the paper on social prescribing that was issued in January last year by the then Deputy Minister for Mental Health that 20 per cent of patients consult their GP for what is primarily a social problem. It had some very interesting statistics about an evaluation of Rotherham social prescribing. Given that we no longer have Communities First, I wondered what consideration the Government has given to looking at those issues that don't need to be dealt with by a qualified physician, but are equally important to the well-being of patients in poorer areas. We used to have Communities First, we now have a range of other issues, but joining them up together so that we can target resources on those GP practices where they get the most issues that relate to people's well-being is obviously something that would be useful to try and explore.

I thank Jenny Rathbone for that, Llywydd. I think she touches on a very interesting and unresolved debate. There is no doubt at all that as the social safety net has frayed, and as it frayed over that last decade, people make their ways to the part of the system that is still open and available to them, and very often that is the GP. If there's nowhere else to go, you at least know that your GP will see you.

The debate is, I think, between whether the right answer is to strengthen other community services and hope that they divert people from the need to go to GPs, or whether it is more successful for GP practices themselves to diversify and to be able to provide a wider range of services to people who are making their way to their door in any case. There are GP services that run welfare rights advice at the surgery; there are surgeries that have counselling services as part of the suite of things that they provide.

I think it is still an open debate, and an important one, that Jenny Rathbone points to: which is the most effective way of getting services to the person? Do you provide the services and hope the person will go to them, or do you provide the services where the person is going anyway? I don't think we know the answer to that, but at the root of it, as the Deep End project demonstrates, is a need for a strengthening of services that attend to people's social difficulties and doesn't turn every social difficulty into a medical problem for which the GP is expected to provide a pill or a prescription.

With an extra £1.5 billion to spend on our public services and priorities, the 2025-26 draft budget will help rebuild our public services and boost the economy, putting Wales on the path to growth. This budget will benefit people, communities and businesses across all parts of Wales.

Many people in Conwy and Denbighshire will be furious, frankly, that the uplift in local authority funding is less in their area than is the case in places such as Newport and Cardiff. It seems to me, looking at your local government funding announcements today, with the draft budget, that there's quite a big urban and rural split, and there's certainly a disadvantage faced by most of the local authorities, therefore, in north Wales versus some other parts of the country that are more urban.

Given that that's the situation, and that residents in both Conwy and Denbighshire have seen significant service cuts in recent years, along with massive hikes in council tax, what are you going to do to make sure that people have their say when large council tax increases are proposed? And how are you going to address this regional inequality, which has grown under your Labour administration?

I deprecate the Member's efforts always to set one part of Wales against another. The formula that is used is the formula that's been agreed by local government. It is an objective formula, it is overseen by a group of experts who are nothing to do with the political world—they come from the world of business and from academia—and they ensure that the formula distributes the—[Interruption.] It's impossible for me to provide an answer to the Member if he thinks that his answer to his own question is more important than mine. If he wishes to answer his own question, I'm very happy to give way to him.

I think the Minister can now answer the question, if he chooses to do so.

Thank you very much, Llywydd. I'm simply explaining that there is no bias in the formula. It does not advantage one part of Wales over another. It does not advantage urban over rural areas. It is driven by the objective data that the formula is given. It's overseen by independent individuals, and it puts money where the formula says money is most needed. I gave an indication to Peter Fox earlier that I'm prepared to discuss, between draft and final, whether there's some additional help that can be offered to those who, this time, the formula does not provide with the levels of support that others will enjoy. Despite the leader of the opposition's remarks, I'm still intent on doing that.

When I met with north Wales council leaders last week, organised through the Welsh Local Government Association, I heard how over a decade of austerity, inflationary pressures and growing need, especially with social care, was impacting on the sustainability of delivering services. We have a growing elderly population in Conwy and Denbighshire, with many people retiring there. I welcome the significant capital investment in health that's just been announced, so hopefully the Royal Alexandra, working in collaboration with Denbighshire council, who've successfully applied to the Welsh Government's integrated care fund, will be able to deliver on the plans there.

I congratulate Darren Millar on becoming leader of the Conservative Party, and hear he has appointed David T.C. Davies. Cabinet Secretary, I was wondering how much money Mr Davies secured for Wales when he was Secretary of State for Wales, and how much Jo Stevens has secured in the last five months.

I thank Carolyn Thomas. She reminded me that it was remiss of me; this was my first opportunity to congratulate Darren Millar on becoming the leader of the Conservative Party. I do that. I recognise the persistence with which he too has pursued the Royal Alexandra Hospital issue, and I agree with Carolyn Thomas that the work there should now be coming to a position where proper funding applications for it can be made.

In contrasting the records of the previous Secretary of State and the current Secretary of State, I'll return to the point I made yesterday, Llywydd: for all the influence the previous Secretary of State had, he delivered that £1 million for all our capital needs in March of this year, and Jo Stevens delivered £235 million. I think the record will stand for itself.

The draft budget makes substantial provision for investment in the next stages of the Swansea bay city deal. This, together with additional funding across our public services, will have a positive impact across South Wales West.

Thank you, Cabinet Secretary. Whilst the additional moneys for public services are welcome, we cannot forget that this is on the back of pensioners and a £40 billion tax bill on working people. Much of this funding will be absorbed by increasing the employers' national insurance contributions and a pay rise for the public sector, while pensioners in my region will be forced to choose between heating and eating this Christmas. Cabinet Secretary, your budget narrative talks about tackling child poverty and food poverty, but makes no mention of fuel poverty nor pensioners' poverty. What actions will the Welsh Government take to support older people across South Wales West and Wales as a whole?

I thank the Member for that, Llywydd. It was remiss of me, if I didn't, not to mention earlier the Fuel Bank Foundation and the additional investment that this budget provides for that foundation. It provides, as you know, additional help for people who rely on prepayment meters, for people in rural Wales who are off-grid, and it has been a great success, since we entered into that partnership with the Fuel Bank Foundation to bring its work to Wales.

I did refer earlier, in my first answer to Buffy Williams, Llywydd, to the £1.5 million investment in warm hubs across Wales. We know that they have been particularly places where older people have been able to go, not simply to keep warm, but for all the other advantages that come from participating, alongside other people, in social activities. I'm thinking of Sam Rowland's question and pressure on GPs. The very best of the warm hubs in the first run we had of them were those where people go for other purposes, where there's no sign on the door that says, 'You have to be cold to come in here.' So, it was rugby clubs, libraries—places where people can go for any sort of reason. They may be going there because they need to keep warm. They may be going there for company with others. They may be going because there's food available to them. They may be going to borrow a library book. Nobody knows when you come through the door. And we know that older people particularly have found that the impact that that has on loneliness and isolation has been as important as it has been in other parts of their lives, and this budget provides a further boost to our ability to go on providing those services in the future.

Thank you to Russell George, Llywydd. I engage regularly with the Cabinet Secretary for Economy, Energy and Planning to ensure that there is funding in place to support our ambitions for the tourism industry in Wales.

Thank you for your answer, Cabinet Secretary. This is the last session before Christmas, and I want to be as constructive as I can. I'm going to ask a constructive question, hoping for a constructive answer. What the industry highlights is that overnight stays are down, and visitor numbers are down also, compared to pre-COVID levels. On that alone, the hospitality sector is looking for Government intervention and Government support. The industry is of course anxious. It's anxious about national insurance contributions for those businesses that employ a small number of people. They're grateful for the 40 per cent rate relief that's continuing, but, of course, they're aware that that was previously 75 per cent. So, these are some of the big anxieties that they have.

The biggest concern, though, that's raised with me from my constituents in the tourism sector is the 182-day threshold on holiday lets. Now, I'm not asking this question to reopen a debate on the need for the threshold, but I'm asking about the review of that threshold, and whether any exemptions are needed. I would be grateful if you would agree to meet with me, with a small number of businesses—not representatives of the industry, but small businesses themselves, who are genuine businesses—and I would say, if you could meet with me, either here, in my constituency, or virtually, that by the end of that meeting, when they put their cases to you, you will see a need for either reviewing that 182 threshold or bringing forward further exemptions. I wonder whether you would be willing to meet with me on that basis.

I thank Russell George for the constructive tone of that question, as I thank those many businesses and representative organisations in the tourism field that have worked closely with the Government over many years. As far as the 182-day threshold is concerned, in April of next year, we will have two years-worth of data from the Valuation Office Agency, which will give us an indication as to the impact that the threshold has had. And as he said, I am not reopening either the debate or the threshold itself until we have that data, because then we will be able to operate on the basis of the Wales-wide picture, rather than relying on the individual accounts of the impact at that individual level. After April, we'll have that data. At that point, I will be able to discuss that further with the Cabinet Secretary for Economy, Energy and Planning. I'm happy to have a conversation with the Member as to how he and those he represents can feed into discussions we may have at that point. 

Diolch yn fawr am y cwestiwn. Mae Bil y Gymraeg ac Addysg (Cymru) yng Nghyfnod 1. Cyfeiriwyd y Bil at y Pwyllgor Plant, Pobl Ifanc ac Addysg, y Pwyllgor Deddfwriaeth, Cyfiawnder a’r Cyfansoddiad a’r Pwyllgor Cyllid i ystyried yr egwyddorion cyffredinol a chyflwyno adroddiad arnynt erbyn 13 Rhagfyr. Edrychaf ymlaen at ddarllen yr adroddiadau.

Diolch yn fawr iawn, Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet, am yr ateb a Nadolig llawen i chi. Gallaf i ddechrau gan ddweud ein bod ni fel Ceidwadwyr Cymreig yn croesawu'r mwyafrif o beth mae'r Bil hwn yn ceisio ei wneud o ran cyrraedd y targed o filiwn o siaradwyr? Dwi'n credu ei fod yn rhan bwysig o wneud hynny. Ond beth rŷn ni wedi ei glywed yn y pwyllgor addysg oedd pwysigrwydd y staff a'r gweithlu o ran cyrraedd y targed a beth mae'r Bil hwn yn ceisio ei wneud. Felly, dŷn ni wedi clywed hefyd oddi wrth Gomisiynydd y Gymraeg a'r Coleg Cymraeg Cenedlaethol, er enghraifft, am bwysigrwydd cael cynllun gweithlu fel rhan o'r Bil. Nawr, dwi'n gwybod eich bod chi ddim wedi dweud bod hynny'n mynd i fod yn rhan o'r Bil hyd yn hyn, ond pa asesiad ydych chi wedi ei wneud o effaith y Bil heb gael y cynllun gweithlu yma? Rŷn ni wedi clywed fel pwyllgor fod ysgolion a phobl eraill yn meddwl y bydd hi'n anodd iawn i wneud beth mae'r Bil yn ceisio ei wneud heb y gweithlu i'w match-io fe. Diolch.

Wel, diolch yn fawr i Tom Giffard, a Nadolig llawen iddo fe hefyd. A diolch am yr ysbryd cefnogol ac adeiladol y mae e wedi ei ddangos y prynhawn yma. Dwi'n ddiolchgar iawn i'r tri phwyllgor yn y Senedd sydd wedi bod yn craffu ar y Bil yn ystod Cyfnod 1, a dwi'n edrych ymlaen at ddarllen adroddiadau'r pwyllgorau pan fyddant yn cael eu cyhoeddi. Wrth gwrs, dwi ddim wedi'u gweld nhw eto, ond dwi wedi mynd ar ôl y dystiolaeth ysgrifenedig a llafar sydd wedi bod ar gael i'r pwyllgorau, a dwi wedi gweld bod y ddadl y mae Tom Giffard yn cyfeirio ati wedi bod yn un bywiog o flaen y pwyllgorau. Felly, dwi'n edrych ymlaen at ddarllen y dystiolaeth yn fanwl a chynnwys yr adroddiadau yn fanwl, a dod nôl â gwelliannau, os yw'r achos yna i wneud hynny, yn ystod Cyfnod 2, ac i wneud hwnna yn yr un ysbryd y mae Tom Giffard wedi ei ddangos y prynhawn yma. 

Diolch i'r Ysgrifennydd Cabinet am yr eitem yna. 

Nesaf i ateb cwestiynau yw Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet dros Newid Hinsawdd a Materion Gwledig a'r Dirprwy Brif Weinidog yn ogystal â hynny. Mae cwestiwn 1 [OQ62023] wedi ei dynnu nôl. Cwestiwn 2 sydd gyntaf. Mark Isherwood.  

Thank you, Mark. The Welsh Government utilises a wide range of scientific evidence when making and applying regulations. This includes academic research, evidence from recognised industry experts, outputs from research and development and data from primary sources, including statutory bodies. Where appropriate, the development of regulations is also informed by relevant impact assessments.

Thank you. Last month the NFU Cymru Clwyd county chairman wrote to me stating that, at his farm, they had a weekly growth of grass a day that was the sort of growth that they would normally expect in March when they would be able to spread slurry. As he said, 'I'm asked by my members why they cannot spread slurry now while the weather is clement, and ground conditions are dry enough to allow livestock and machinery on the land. The weather forecast is good for the next fortnight. Will it still be so in January when we're allowed to spread slurry again?' He added, 'This simply highlights the problem of using a calendar-based limitation to slurry spreading, rather than the more sensible appliance-of-science approach.'

Science—which the Welsh Government has financed—has proven that weather and soil conditions are more important than dates for the effective take-up of nutrients from slurry. So, what plans does the Welsh Government have, if any, to allow some greater flexibility to regulations such as the Water Resources (Control of Agricultural Pollution) (Wales) Regulations 2021?

Thank you, Mark. This is something we regularly debate here on the floor of the Senedd. It's why, actually, we've instituted the independently chaired four-yearly review of agricultural pollution regulations, to consider the effectiveness of the current regime in preventing and, indeed, reducing agricultural pollution, and the review is due to be completed by March 2025. Dr Susannah Bolton is leading that, in her role as chair, to oversee the review. She's engaging with many stakeholders, including the farming unions, NFU Cymru and FUW, but also the Tenant Farmers Association, the Country Land and Business Association, the non-governmental organisations, the Wales land management forum sub-group on agricultural pollution, and she was also at the winter fair as well, indeed, and I've met with her. She has also, by the way, visited, as I have, Gelli Aur college farm to discuss innovations around monitoring of soil, weather, moisture, humidity, et cetera, and that does have potential, but there's a question of scale and scope around that as well.

There's a particular issue, which you've touched upon, Mark, which is related to the start of the closed period, and what we can do with that. So, the closed period for the spreading of cattle slurry and poultry manure for the majority of grassland farms starts on 15 October, and it reopens on 15 January, subject to the post closed-period spreading requirements. The closed period is in force; spreading slurry is a breach of the regulations. Now, the reason for that is it is indeed evidence based, and the purpose is to prevent excessive losses of nitrogen and phosphorus to water, following the application of manures during those periods when the crop growth is limited, and during these periods, when the crop need for nutrients is limited, when rainfall is higher, leaching and run-off does occur, so there could be significant nutrient losses and run-off.

But we do recognise that the wet weather has created difficult circumstances for some farmers. Some farmers have entered into the closed period with more slurry than they had planned for. So, initially, Mark, the advice is: those farms should identify any mitigating measures available to them, including carrying out clean and dirty water separation, minimising rainwater entering slurry stores, and also ensuring features such as gutters and clean water drains are fully functioning. But if any farmers have concerns they will still not have the required capacity to safely store this slurry during this period, then contact NRW to identify help there in mitigating actions to minimise the risk of pollution and discuss the challenges with them.

I have requested officials to review previously, as I've said to the Senedd, to make amendments to the cross-compliance verifiable standards so that a proportional approach can be taken. So, please, any farmer out there, discuss this with NRW.

Mae cwestiwn 3 [OQ62038] wedi'i dynnu yn ôl. Cwestiwn 4, Rhys ab Owen.

Diolch, Rhys. Mae polisïau cynllunio Llywodraeth Cymru mewn perthynas ag ailblannu coed wedi’u cynnwys yn 'Polisi Cynllunio Cymru'. Tu allan i'r broses gynllunio, mae angen trwydded cwympo coed lle mae perchennog yn dymuno cwympo coed sy'n tyfu. Rhoddir trwyddedau cwympo gydag amodau i ailblannu'r ardal i gynnal y goedwigaeth.

Diolch, Dirprwy Brif Weinidog. You will be more than aware that building on any green space, but especially in urban areas, is often controversial and creates strong feelings locally. I've been contacted regularly with regard to felling trees in Cardiff, more recently in the northern meadows area in Cardiff, where local residents were concerned that mature trees were replaced by two whips. Cardiff Council denies that, but I just wanted to know what guidance, exactly, is given. Of course, we heard yesterday from Janet Finch-Saunders about the felling of trees that meant a lot to her personally during the storm. So, bearing in mind that the Welsh Government has declared a nature emergency in 2021, how will you ensure that felled trees are adequately replaced, for the benefit of local residents, but also for the environment? Diolch yn fawr.

It's a very good question, and I think every Member in this Senedd values the contribution of trees to the local environment, to green spaces, but also in terms of climate change, climate adaptation and resilience as well. And it is important that there is adequate protection for trees against felling, but also, if they are felled, then there is replacement.

And the 'Planning Policy Wales 12'—PPW 12—sets out the land-use planning policies of Welsh Government in respect of this. It provides a strong framework for the protection of trees. And Welsh Government, just to be clear, does not support the loss of mature trees. Our policy sets out that planning authorities must protect trees where they have an ecological value or they contribute to the character or amenity of an area or they perform a beneficial green infrastructure function. 

And we also set out that, where there are individual or groups of trees removed as part of a proposed scheme, then planning authorities must first follow the step-wise approach that we describe to maintain and enhance biodiversity and, first of all, avoiding the loss in the first instance, if that can be done.

So, we introduced a new policy in October 2023 that, where tree loss is unavoidable, developers will be required to provide compensatory planting—that is very important. And our policy states very clearly that replacement tree planting shall be at a ratio equivalent to the quality, the environmental and the ecological importance of the tree or trees lost. And this must be preferably on site or immediately adjacent to the site and at a minimum ratio of at least three trees of a similar type and compensatory size planted for every single one lost.

Now I can't comment on the detail of the particular issue at Northern Meadows, because you’ll understand that Welsh Ministers sometimes may have a statutory role in the planning process, but I hope that explains our approach with policy planning guidance—it's very clear, very precise and we expect it to be adhered to.

Ysgol Tŷ Ffynnon in Shotton have been learning about biodiversity loss and the importance of tree planting. Pupils have written to me to say that they want more to be done to protect wildlife and their future. Darcy in year 4 wrote, 'I have been finding out about different animals losing their homes because trees are being cut down. I am very shocked that 17 per cent of wildlife has been disappearing in Wales.' The children have been learning about the 'It's for Them' project, managing verges and amenity grass for wildlife, and have been taking action themselves. Tegan explained, 'We made sure we planted trees near the hedgerow to encourage creatures to make them their habitat.' 

Westwood Primary School have also been working on the project. However, the educational resources are not easy to find on the Welsh Government's website. So, Cabinet Secretary, please would you work with the Cabinet Secretary for Education to promote the project and educational materials to schools and local authorities? And would you congratulate the pupils on all they are doing in their local area and reassure them that the Welsh Government will continue to make nature a priority going forward? Thank you.

Carolyn, thank you so much for that question. And I'm regularly visiting schools, not just in my own constituency, but around the country, which are taking part in planting initiatives, not just for the sake of trees and woodland cover, but for that biodiversity purpose. And it's inspiring to see, because they get very deeply, very viscerally, the importance of tree planting. So, certainly, my congratulations to those at Westwood Primary School and all those schools now throughout Wales who are contributing so much to our biodiversity gain, as well as woodland cover and the right trees in the right place, and often in places around the school environment or in the community at large as well, which is fantastic to see.

I think we've pioneered in Wales the extent now of initiatives such as the one you described, but also the presence of eco councils now in schools throughout the land, the work of the forestry schools, where children go out from the playground, from the hard standing, from the tarmac, into the natural environment for a deep and profound understanding of the impact of the natural environment on us all, and I think that stands us in good stead for the future. But, yes, I will engage with the Cabinet Secretary for Education to talk about how we can push and promote and highlight this even more, alongside the wider nature initiatives that we do.

Cwestiynau nawr gan lefarwyr y pleidiau. Llefarydd y Ceidwadwyr yn gyntaf, James Evans.

Diolch, Llywydd. Cabinet Secretary, in the spirit of Christmas, I'd like to wish you and your family very much Nadolig Llawen.

Thank you very much, James. Thank you.

Cabinet Secretary, what we're seeing is an ongoing saga within Hybu Cig Cymru, as reported by Farmers Weekly and other programmes, which have detailed significant staff turnover—13 out of 30 employees leaving within 18 months—and an atmosphere of bullying, fear and dishonesty. How does the Welsh Government plan to address these seismic issues? Specifically, what steps will be taken to investigate the claims of unsafe, hostile working conditions, including those outlined in the Y Byd ar Bedwar programme, which were highlighted by staff on that programme who wish to remain anonymous, and ensure the leadership of HCC is held accountable for fostering an appropriate workplace and an environment that aligns with the Nolan principles? I have been made aware that a crisis meeting did take place between Welsh Government and HCC. If that has taken place—I'd like to know if a meeting has taken place—what are the outcomes of that meeting, what actions have you told HCC to carry out, and what actions are there for the Welsh Government?

James, thank you very much. Can I just reciprocate by wishing you, but also all Members in the Chamber, and you, Llywydd, as well, Nadolig Llawen i chi i gyd? Genuinely, sincerely meant as well.

First of all, just to correct you, I don't know where on earth you've got the idea that there's been some sort of crisis meeting with Hybu Cig Cymru. I don't know who you're talking to, who's spreading this on the rumour mill. There has been no crisis meeting with Hybu Cig Cymru. What I do regularly is I meet regularly with the chair of Hybu Cig Cymru, and my officials engage regularly with Hybu Cig Cymru, which, of course, is a sponsored body of Welsh Government. And we do two things in that, two very important things. One is that we are checking on their performance, day to day, their strategic outlook, how they will actually deliver for the levy payers and for the red meat industry in Wales and the success they've had over many years, and to make sure that they're on track and that they're doing it.

Just to say, James, as well—I don't know where you've got this nonsense about a crisis meeting from—I happen to have signed off this morning, just out of interest to Members, the accounts for Hybu Cig Cymru. They are unqualified accounts; it's not often that that happens. This is not, as some might be—I don't know whether it's you—seeking to portray Hybu Cig Cymru—

That's nonsense. They're rarely unqualified accounts.

Oh, there's some chuntering going on once again, Llywydd.

Darren Millar, I know you want to draw attention to yourself as the new leader of the Welsh Conservatives, but during ministerial questions is not the time to do it, when it's your own spokesperson that is now meant to take the limelight and ask the questions.

Diolch, Llywydd. The new leader of the Conservative Party continues to chunter like a heckler from the backbenches, but that's up to him. What I—[Interruption.] James, what—[Interruption.] James, what I would say is: (1) we seek to clarify where their performance is, and, I have to say, if you were at the winter fair, as I was—

I was.

—you will have heard the reports from Hybu Cig Cymru and the performance that it is delivering for levy payers, but the second is, genuinely, Llywydd, the issues included in the programme covered, issues around internal matters of governance, internal matters of HR process, issues and allegations of bullying and so on, to actually get those direct assurances from Hybu Cig Cymru itself that they have fair and diligent due process happening, that they are looking at anything that is raised with them and are dealing with it properly—and we have those assurances as well, James, just to tell you—and to make sure that everybody is treated fairly within this.

Can I just say one other thing? That is that Hybu Cig Cymru is performing on behalf of its levy payers, but, undoubtedly, the spotlight that is currently on them, and some of the calls—strident calls—out there to scrap them, do away with them, sack the lot of them, this, that and the other, that does put pressure on them and it does affect the wellbeing of individuals who are working there as well. So, I would simply appeal to all Members to be temperate in the way that they ask questions about Hybu Cig Cymru. There are people trying to do a very good job here on behalf of the red meat sector, and they are continuing to do so, and my role as a Minister is to make sure that they are doing that.

My role as the opposition spokesperson is to hold the Welsh Government accountable—

Then don't listen to the rumours.

—and you are the major shareholder of HCC. So, I would like to know—. You said no crisis meeting has taken place. So, after the Y Byd ar Bedwar programme was aired, if you didn’t have a crisis meeting, can you confirm whether you met with them following that programme, to have a discussion with them about what was raised and what actions they’re taking to address it? Because I’m sure other Members have seen the letter that came through anonymously from staff about the culture that's in HCC and about some of the things that the chair said on that programme, which they say were not true and she’s misled the public and misled levy payers. I’m sure you’ve seen a copy of that letter, Cabinet Secretary, so I’d be very interested to know what you think of that and how the Welsh Government is going to respond, because what they’ve got a key problem with here is that they had an internal investigation, most of the substantiated claims against an individual there were upheld, that individual is still in the organisation, which is creating a toxic environment for staff, and I want to make sure that all our farmers across Wales make sure that their levy body—HCC—is working for them, and that they’re not bogged down by HR issues.

So, I’d like to know, Cabinet Secretary, what are you doing to hold HCC to account, and the board of HCC, and, if it is found that the chair has misled the public and broken the Nolan principles, will you take steps to rectify that, in the way that we’d expect that to be dealt with?

So, you put a big ‘if’ out there, but in that ‘if’ there’s quite a strong suggestion of an allegation that the chair has misled.

It was in a letter that was sent out. I'm asking you—

Right, sorry. So, we have rumours that you’re speculating on of a crisis meeting, allegations with a big ‘if’ that the chair has actually misled people. What I can tell you, James, and appeal to you to be considered and temperate in the way that you approach this, is, rather than rely on rumour and suggestion and whoever you are chatting to and talking to there, to accept that I have not met on the back of any television programme. I meet regularly with HCC, and I’ve met them since I’ve come into office.  

So, Llywydd, what we have is a frontbench spokesman here smiling and laughing away suggesting that there is some behind-the-scenes process going on here, that I’d met in response to a tv programme. I cannot be clearer to you, James, that I meet on a regular and systematic basis with HCC, and I seek the assurances in response to any allegations that have come forward—any issues—to make sure that due process has taken place, make sure that the right governance is happening within that organisation, and also that its performance—. You have not asked one question about the performance of HCC. You’ve not responded to what they’ve put out in the corporate strategy, what they’ve achieved in the years gone by, and what they’re hoping to achieve in the years going forward on behalf of the levy payers. And I simply ask you, James: what is the purpose of this line of questioning? Is it to undermine HCC, as you’ve suggested, I understand, externally, that it needs to be thrown up in the air and start something else again? [Interruption.] Well, what is the proposal?

My proposal is actually to stand up for the whistleblowers who've come forward and the staff who work there and the levy payers who pay into that body, to make sure it's working in their best interests. That’s what I’m here to do. And I’m sure all the people listening out there will look at this Welsh Government, again putting its hands in the air and saying, ‘Sorry, it’s nothing to do with us, we’re not interested’—. And, by your answer as well, it sounds like you’re not interested in whistleblowers who come forward. So, I say to all those staff out there: the Conservatives, and I know other parties in this place, will listen to you if the Welsh Government will not.

So, I’m going to move on, Cabinet Secretary, to a different area, and maybe you’ll be able to help me in this area, because I’m sure you can’t help me in the last one. The Welsh national flock of sheep has seen a dramatic decline, with nearly 12 million sheep in Wales in the 1990s, to 8.7 million now. It’s the lowest level of sheep we’ve seen in over a decade, and processors and industry are coming to me saying they actually don’t think they’ve got the critical mass of land, now, in the industry to keep some of our processing plants open at full capacity. This is going to cost jobs and livelihoods. It is the job of the Welsh Government to support economic development and support jobs. So, I’ll be very interested to hear what the Welsh Government are doing to make sure that we can increase the amount of sheep that we have across Wales, to make sure that we can continue supplying Welsh lamb to our suppliers here in the United Kingdom, and to our suppliers in Europe and across our trading nations.

Yes, happy to answer that, because there’s a number of strands to making sure that we have good lamb and sheep and other red meat on our tables. Of course, HCC is part of that, and delivering that for the industry; so is what we do with the future of the sustainable farming scheme as well, to make sure that we have the right amount of remuneration going to sheep farmers throughout Wales, including those who are on the uplands as well, and that we, recently, at the winter fair, actually, put forward, as we did here on the floor of the Senedd, the fact that we’ve reached a consensus on an outline for that scheme, going forward.

I just want to say, Llywydd, a suggestion was just made that I’m not interested in whistleblowers or those who bring complaints. I am very, very interested always in those who are whistleblowing. Don’t try and make this a party political instance here, James—

You’re making this party political, Huw.

—where only the Conservatives—you wanted an answer—

Let the Cabinet Secretary to respond.

—where only the Conservatives are the party of whistleblowers. Let me just say very, very clearly, I am very seized by the fact that if people within HCC or any other organisation have allegations or concerns, they should be able to raise those, raise them clearly, have them addressed, and be due process as well—due process for those who also face those allegations as well as those people who are making allegations. It seems to me that there is a concerted attempt here, unfortunately, to undermine that organisation for whatever reason. Now, I’m very focused on making sure that HCC deliver in two ways: (1) for the levy payers, let me make that clear, because it is there for those levy payers, and, secondly, it does everything it possibly can to respond to any concerns that are raised, and to do them fairly and justly and with due process for all concerned. So, let’s not make this a party political interest, please. There are genuine concerns that have been raised that do need to be addressed by HCC and they are.

Llefarydd Plaid Cymru, Llyr Gruffydd.

Diolch yn fawr, Llywydd. Yesterday, of course, we saw your Government’s draft budget and I look forward to scrutinising the finer detail of that around your particular portfolio responsibilities in the weeks to come. The basic payment scheme budget, of course, is maintained and an additional £5.5 million resource and £14 million capital funding according to the budget narrative for wider rural investment schemes, which, of course, is very welcome. But I’m sure that you, as well as I, would like to put that in context, because that minimal uplift comes against a backdrop of many years of cuts in budgets, most recently, of course, the Welsh rural affairs budget was cut by £37.5 million in the last financial year, and a further year on year cut of £62 million in this financial year, the largest relative reduction of any of the Welsh Government departmental budgets. Now, at the same time, of course, farmers are being asked to deliver more than ever before. They’re being asked to deliver more ambitious outcomes on food security, on climate change and on environmental protection. And, if we want to see the change that everybody wants, I’m sure, then future budgets for the sustainable farming scheme particularly can’t be expected to remain at current levels. Now, farming unions have been clear that, as a minimum, they want to see maintained the equivalent of total historic common agricultural policy funding of at least £337 million per year. Indeed, environmental non-governmental organisations and agricultural organisations have called for £500 million to deliver the public goods required. Now, all eyes will turn soon to the UK Government spending review in the spring.

I do need a question now, Llyr Gruffydd.

Yes. So, given the urgent need for proper investment in rural affairs, how does the Cabinet Secretary plan to advocate for fair and necessary funding for farmers in Wales? And what case will you be making to your colleagues in the UK Treasury to make sure that our sector receives the resources it needs to deliver the growing demands being asked of it?

Well, Llyr, thank you for that question, and you make the valid point that the case for farming relies not only on making a case for good food production to the highest animal welfare standards, highest environmental standards, but the strongest case for farming now actually rests on the case that we’re asking them to do far more than that as well. We’re asking them to help us with climate resilience, we’re asking them to help us with nature recovery and restoration, we’re asking them to help us with the controversial issue of woodland coverage in the right place as well, all of those things to do with climate adaptation as well. So, on that basis, we do need the right quantum of funding in there.

Now, I’m pleased to say that, as you’ve seen within the budget, we’ve not only maintained the basic payment scheme at a £238 million ceiling, but we’ve also managed to find an additional £5.5 million revenue and £14 million capital funding to help the sector transition to the new sustainable farming scheme. Now, you raise the other quantums of funding that, actually, in that combination of environmental groups and farmers, they've said, 'We possibly need an additional £500 million, £600 million', and other figures have been mooted as well. That’s why we’re very interested, above and beyond the SFS, in something that we’ve recently consulted on, which is sustainable investment principles—so, the sort of stuff that we’ve done recently in partnership with people like Dŵr Cymru and the peatland restoration projects. We set our targets a year in advance, as you know, but that’s been done by levering in additional funding. The question is: can we find other ways, working with farmers, but also with RSPB, WWF and others, and private organisations, to say—with real integrity funding and high ethical standards that benefit the communities—we could find more? I’m very interested in that piece and in working with anybody who has suggestions on how we can lever even more funding in.

And working with UK Treasury as well, I'd have thought.

Yes, indeed.

Yes, thank you. Now, I mentioned the sustainable farming scheme, and whilst changes to the SFS achieved through co-production, of course, with farmers and environmental groups have recently been welcomed, many farmers still continue to struggle with the cumulative burden of some other policies, including the practical realities of the closed period for slurry spreading during winter. Given your collaborative approach to the SFS has allowed it to move forward in a more positive vein, doesn’t that also offer a way forward maybe for some of these other issues as well? Whilst I appreciate that an early review of the water pollution regulations is something that you’re bringing forward, wouldn’t it be timely to also bring together a round-table or working groups to work through what you’ve called in other contexts ‘knotty issues’, but particularly in relation to the NVZ policy? That might then help identify and explore more practical and pragmatic ways forward, such as alternatives to the farming-by-calendar approach.

I think there is a job of work to take forward a different approach on a range of issues around farming and land management, water catchment management and pollution that’s not only agricultural but is also industrial and is also a legacy of our Victorian pipe and sewer work as well. So, I am interested in that. But I think, on the agricultural pollution, we need to allow Dr Susannah Bolton now to do that stakeholder engagement, come back with her independent analysis of what is working and what isn’t working and proposals for the way forward. But, on top of that, there’s a bigger piece within it, as you rightly say. We’ve done an enormous amount of investment within the nutrient management boards. We’ve done a great deal of personal capital expended by the former First Minister and others in terms of the river summits and looking at that approach of everybody collaborating in order to clean up pollutions and run-off into the rivers, and so on and so forth. So, there is something in there, but I think we need to give Dr Susannah Bolton time first of all—she’ll report in the spring; it’s not long to go—and then we need to think about how we then bring this, as you say, collaborative, together approach, all owning both the challenges and the solutions into that space, and that we do this together.

Many of us, I’m sure, will be taking a well-earned rest at Christmas and taking some time out with the family, but I’m sure we’ll also be sparing a thought for those who still have to work throughout Christmas, as they do every other day of the year, be they emergency services, those who may well be called upon again to respond to extreme weather events, and farming of course doesn’t stop for Christmas. Farmers will be out in their fields and on their farmyards from the early hours of Christmas day, milking, tending to their livestock, and making sure that the rest of us have good-quality, nutritious food on our tables. As people dig into their Christmas dinners, I think we should take a moment to acknowledge that fact and say 'thank you' to those who provide for us—those who farm, those who graft producing food so that the rest of us don’t have to. And the best way we can thank them, I’d say, is by working for a future where every Christmas dinner in Wales is a true celebration of Welsh produce—locally reared turkeys, vegetables grown in Welsh fields, and all the trimmings sourced from our communities, and not just at Christmas, of course, but all year around. So, will you join me, Cabinet Secretary, in saying 'thank you' to all our farmers, wherever they are in Wales, for everything that they do for us? And can you tell us what the Welsh Government’s plan is to grow local food production, ensuring that more of our households across Wales can enjoy locally sourced festive meals while supporting our farmers and local food producers?

Diolch yn fawr, Llyr. What a great question. I do think there is more that we can do in this space. We’ve had enormous success now with some of the GI status Welsh foods, which then mean that there’s an increased recognition of local and regionally sourced Welsh products—the best of Welsh products on local shelves as well as internationally. We’re doing a lot more in the procurement space now, including with social procurement, where you can recognise the environmental and the social benefits of local and regional supply chains, rather than lowest cost denominator. We're doing an enormous amount in horticulture as well as agriculture in terms of grant funding, but also other initiatives we can do to expand that space, both on farms as diversification, but also with small growers. I think we can bring much of this together in something that I know that's been long awaited, and we've doing a heck of a lot of work behind the scenes on it, on the community food strategy, which will have very much that focus on those local food networks, the supply and resilience in those local and regional supply chains, and Welsh goodness within food. And, yes, indeed—

—Nadolig llawen i bob ffermwr ledled Cymru.

They'll be putting the food on our tables, we'll be enjoying it, and we should think about them as we tuck in.

Diolch, Siân. Rydw i’n cydweithio â’m holl gyd-aelodau yn y Cabinet i gyflawni’r camau o fewn Cymru Sero Net. Mae ein strategaeth gwres yn amlinellu ein camau gweithredu ar gyfer gwaredu rhwystrau a chreu amgylchedd sy’n galluogi pob i ddatgarboneiddio eu cartrefi a mabwysiadau datrysiadau o ran gwres glân. 

Mae ein cartrefi ni'n gyfrifol am 10 y cant o’r holl allyriadau nwyon tŷ gwydr yng Nghymru. Mae’r grŵp her sero net 2035, a gomisiynwyd drwy’r cytundeb cydweithio, yn cydnabod bod gwresogi cartrefi yn her allweddol i’w datrys. Un ffordd o ddatgarboneiddio ein cartrefi ni ydy drwy osod pympiau gwresogi. Ond, yn anffodus, mae canllawiau’r Llywodraeth yn gosod rhwystrau di-angen. Mae’r canllawiau yn atal pympiau rhag cael eu gosod o fewn 3m i ffiniau eiddo, ac mae hyn yn ofod sydd jest ddim yno mewn nifer fawr o gartrefi. Felly, a wnewch chi weithio efo Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet dros Lywodraeth Leol a Thai er mwyn newid y canllawiau yma, a hynny ar fyrder?

Yes, indeed, Siân. Before air-source heat pumps became a thing, before they were considered alternatives to traditional fossil fuel boilers, that 3m rule was introduced as a precaution against noise impacts on neighbouring properties. Now, since its introduction back in 2012—we're more than a decade on—heat pump technology has improved vastly, including the technology, but also the noise levels have reduced as well. So, it's a very different product nowadays. We are aiming to publish revised regulations for permitted development rights towards the end of 2025, because it's a recognition that that 3m rule was maybe fit for that time, but the technology has moved on so much and the noise has been reduced so much. What we're hoping is that these will address those unnecessary barriers to installation of heat pumps and ensure also that there aren't any unacceptable impacts to neighbouring properties and local amenities as well, to get the balance right, but to recognise that the technology has improved immeasurably.

Of course, one of the ways in which people can lower their carbon emissions from their homes is to make use of the excellent ECO4 scheme. I know, Cabinet Secretary, you'll be aware that ECO4 is a £4 billion fund provided by private energy suppliers in the UK, and it's managed through the UK Government. Many private house owners have tapped into that. Some think it's too good to be true, but, actually, the ability to tap into that fund is far easier than many people would expect. But it strikes me there's an opportunity for social landlords to also tap into this funding, as it is accessible to social landlords and many of the properties that they manage would be eligible for this funding. So, I'd be interested to hear from the Cabinet Secretary whether he would work with the Cabinet Secretary for housing to ensure that social landlords are tapping into this money, because £4 billion-worth of money needs to be spent over a four-year period so that people living in social housing can have the same benefits as those living in private housing.

Yes, very much, Sam. And thanks for the question, because this is a real opportunity here. So, essentially, low-income households in those cold, draughty, energy-inefficient homes, who either own their own homes or are in the private rented sector, can actually apply for this. Social housing tenants can also apply as well, but we've got other funding routes that they could go through, such as the optimised retrofit programme. And just to say, Sam, we're putting more than £30 million this year into the Warm Homes Nest scheme as well, to reduce the number of low-income households living in cold, damp homes. Also, that optimised retrofit programme I talked about, improving the efficiency of social housing and reducing, by the way, bills, so helping with the cost-of-living challenges that people have, we're putting over £260 million into that over this term of Government, including £70 million for this current financial year. So, yes, the ECO4 approach is there, but there are also other avenues that people can use as well.

Diolch, Mabon. Mae Cyfoeth Naturiol Cymru wedi mynd ati i adolygu ei holl weithgareddau, gan gydnabod bod yn rhaid rhoi blaenoriaeth i'w swyddogaethau craidd a'i ddyletswyddau statudol. Yn dilyn ei ymgynghoriad 'Achos dros Newid', gwnaeth fwrdd Cyfoeth Naturiol Cymru gymeradwyo newidiadau gan sicrhau y gall y sefydliad barhau i ganolbwyntio ar gefnogi adferiad byd natur, mynd i'r afael â newid hinsawdd a sicrhau cyn lleied â phosibl o lygredd.

Diolch yn fawr iawn i'r Dirprwy Brif Weinidog am yr ateb yna. Wrth gwrs, mae'n resyn bod Cyfoeth Naturiol Cymru wedi penderfynu cau'r canolfannau ymwelwyr yng Nghoed y Brenin, Nant yr Arian ac Ynyslas. Mi fydd hyn, dwi'n pryderu, yn effeithio ar boblogrwydd yr atyniadau yma ac mae yna gonsérn go iawn yn lleol y bydd llai o bobl, o ganlyniad, yn ymweld â'r canolfannau. Felly, mae yna reidrwydd i atal y cau a sicrhau bod pwy bynnag fydd yn cymryd y llefydd yma drosodd ar gyfer yr hirdymor yn gwneud hynny'n esmwyth ac yn llyfn, heb fod y llefydd yma yn cau i ddechrau. Felly, pa drafodaethau ydych chi wedi'u cael gyda Chyfoeth Naturiol Cymru er mwyn sicrhau bod y broses o'u trosglwyddo nhw i'w prynwyr newydd yn un llyfn ac na fydd y canolfannau yn cau?

Diolch yn fawr iawn. Yes, both myself and my officials are picking up the queries and concerns raised by Members of the Senedd, but also the expressions of interest by many organisations around Wales to have a part in either taking over or contributing to the running of these centres. Just to be clear, over this recess, going forward into the spring, people can still go, can still walk and cycle and can go there, and so on. I'm told by NRW that whilst they've concluded their 'Case for Change' and they are indeed focusing, as we've repeatedly said, on their statutory and core duties, they're very committed to responding now to these expressions of interest from local businesses and local community groups in taking over the responsibility for the running of the retail and catering services at those centres. They've recently held three in-person engagement sessions in public, and one virtual session as well, to provide information to people on arrangements for the future of the centres, how they can put forward their expressions of interest, and also how that links into the sites around them.

One thing that NRW are doing that both my officials and I, in our meetings, have raised with them is having some sort of continuity at the sites. So, what they're proposing at the moment, even whilst they respond to the expressions of interest and go through the proper process to respond to those, is they're also developing interim measures at each site for the start of the new financial year, and these could include things such as concessionary arrangements for refreshments at sites, and so on, so that people who are visiting will still have something—as well as going walking or cycling, or whatever, they can also then have some refreshments there as well.

It's important to stress to people that if they turn up this recess or going forward, NRW are still continuing with the management of those sites, and the centres themselves will remain open for all those things, including, if you drive to the sites, the car parking will be there, the toilet provision and so on as well. So, I think we've all got to say to everybody, 'Don't stop going there; these sites are still going to be available to you.' 

As part of a drive to save £12 million, there are grave concerns that NRW will not have the capacity to fulfil its vital roles, particularly in the face of increasingly severe weather conditions. I just want to put on record, quite often, we've all had concerns about NRW, but I have to say that the front-line staff are absolutely amazing. With the closure of visitor centre cafes proposed, the end of the physical library service, a reduced response to low-level pollution incidents, and the agency's ability to tackle climate change, manage flood risk and protect biodiversity, they are definitely going to be compromised. Indeed, NRW's own flood risk management service is expected to provide options for additional savings of £2.1 million alongside the already 233 job losses in NRW more widely.

I feel the pain when I speak to those front-line hard workers. Is there a way that you could look at reviewing the whole workings of NRW? Because there is a lot of top management there, for me—and we have it in the health board as well—and we should be looking at making sure that those front-line workers, the ones who are out in all weathers, doing jobs that none of us could do, doing hard jobs in really difficult circumstances, have got the maximum resources for them to use, and maybe look at streamlining some of the bigger management roles. Thank you.

Thanks, Janet. Can I just agree with you on the staff within NRW who, through the recent storms, but actually in their day-to-day jobs, do absolutely sterling work? But, you are right, it's not just the recent 'Case for Change', where NRW have been, I think, rightly, with the pressures they're under, tasked with focusing on their statutory, regulatory and core duties, and engaging with trade unions on that, but there was a journey before this that they went on as well, as you'll recall from the time we spent together on the climate change committee. A few years ago, they went through a baseline analysis, doing exactly what you currently describe—[Interruption.]—which was looking at every part of the organisation in order to see that the money was going through to the front-line services. Also, then, as a result of that, we gave a significant uplift to NRW, so that they could carry on with that. Sorry, I'm smiling, Llywydd, because, yes—.

I know why you're smiling.

As part of that, they also implemented cost recovery, as you know, to make sure that they were not subsidising elements that they previously were and were recovering their costs, and then the 'Case for Change'. Now, going forward, we will certainly be protecting significant areas and investing additionally in significant areas, including flooding, flood resilience and flood capacity within NRW, but also maintaining our record spending on flooding and so on. We will be investing in things such as infrastructure and planning decisions, so that they can be brought forward in a more timely manner, because there's often a frustration, and it's to do with lack of capacity. So, both the Cabinet Secretary for Finance and Welsh Language and I are very interested in that; we're hoping to take that forward.

We're very keen, also, by the way, as the Cabinet Secretary to the right of me made clear yesterday, in the space around what we can do to strengthen some of the enforcement as well. Albeit that I always want NRW to be empathetic in the way that they do this, there is a need for good enforcement across a wide range, so we're keen on that. We'll also be looking at investment in nature-based solutions and also digital infrastructure to streamline its permitting and its licensing regime. So, we stand by NRW as the go-to regulatory body here in Wales, and we stand by its staff as well. I don't think we need to do another 'Case for Change' or another baseline analysis. We now need to put the support into the right place and let them get on with doing their job very effectively.

Diolch, Adam. Rydym eisoes wedi ymgysylltu â nifer o randdeiliaid a byddwn yn parhau i wneud hyn wrth i ni ddatblygu cynllun dychwelyd ernes sy’n cyd-fynd â’n huchelgeisiau clir ar gyfer ailgylchu o’r radd flaenaf ac ailddefnyddio deunyddiau, gan gynnwys gwydr.

Dwi'n ddiolchgar i'r Ysgrifennydd Cabinet am ei ateb. Yn ddiweddar, fe wnes i ymweld â Brecon Carreg, cynhyrchydd dŵr mwyn sydd yn fy etholaeth i, ac fe wnaethon nhw esbonio eu consérn nhw ynglŷn â'r penderfyniad i gael cynllun DRS ar wahân. Byddai'n rhaid iddyn nhw gynhyrchu poteli gyda dwy label wahanol, ac wrth werthu wedyn i archfarchnadoedd sydd yn cyflenwi Cymru a Lloegr o'r un warysau, byddai'n rhaid cael dwy stoc ar wahân. Mae nifer o'r archfarchnadoedd wedi dweud na fydden nhw wedyn yn cymryd unrhyw gynnyrch o gwbl, a byddai hynny, wrth gwrs, yn cael effaith andwyol iawn nid yn unig ar y cwmni yma, ond ar y sector, sydd yn sector bwysig yng Nghymru yn gyffredinol wrth gwrs. A fyddai'r Ysgrifennydd Cabinet yn fodlon ymweld â Brecon Carreg i glywed eu pryderon yn uniongyrchol a cheisio canfod datrysiadau?

Diolch, Adam, and the answer to the last question is 'yes'. In fact, I'm pleased—it may be serendipitous—but I've actually had a written invite a couple of weeks ago from Brecon Carreg to come and look at their production, look at their facility, look at different aspects of the operation, and to discuss DRS. In fact, it's only within the last few weeks, since we've made the announcement on the way that we will proceed with the DRS, which I believe is the right way for Wales. It matches where we are now as the second-in-the-world recycling nation, and we're a fraction away from being first in the world. That is a benefit of decisions we can make with devolution, that we went ahead to achieve that. But we now need to have a deposit-return scheme that actually delivers on the next stage of our ambition, which is reuse.

I'm really keen, however—even in the last couple of weeks since we made our very clear restatement of our position and our way forward—to work with stakeholders. One of the defining aspects of the work that's been done in this sphere over several years in Wales, in preparing for this, is the quality of the engagement with stakeholders, and we'll continue to do that. I think I must have had four or five stakeholder meetings as groups—probably more than that—in the time I've been in place, specifically on DRS, but I've also been out in the last couple of weeks individually to meet with microbreweries and so on, to say to them, 'We want to devise a scheme that will work for Wales, but also will work for you.' And that's where we need to be very clever.

So, listen, I will be accepting that invitation from Brecon Carreg to go out and meet with them, because I want to learn what their concerns are, but also what the potential is for them as well. Because one of the interesting things here is, if we can put in place a reuse scheme for, let's say, bottles, as well as aluminium and other materials as well, then that may actually have implications of driving down the cost, because you have to heat recycled glass up to 1,500 degrees before you shape it into a glass bottle. If what we're talking about is relabelling, reusing and cleaning ones, then what we've seen in the 53-plus countries that do this is that you can actually bring down the cost basis for people who can then reuse those containers. But, yes, more than happy to go out to meet them.

And just to say very clearly, whilst the deposit-return schemes have been developed in parallel, that in the other three nations and ours, they were being developed as legally separate schemes, rather than one single scheme across the UK. We'd have liked to have gone ahead with the previous position of an all-in-scheme for all of the UK, but we understand there's a different approach going to be taken elsewhere. What we need to do now is develop a DRS that will really deliver benefits to Wales, and that means a decarbonisation reuse scheme, as well as, simply, a recycling scheme.

Diolch i Adam Price am y cwestiwn yma.

Cabinet Secretary, I spoke to Richard Johnson, the head brewer at Tenby Harbour Brewery on this, and he called it illogical. And I'll read you the quote that he said:

'Wales is a recycling nation'—

I agree with this—

'so a blunt "one size fits all" approach creates additional logistical and financial burdens on the smallest producers, when the very largest producers are generating the majority of the recycling demand.'

And I would agree with that. And listening to the reply that you gave to Adam Price earlier, I would argue that you agree with that as well, because the cost implications of rewashing and relabelling these bottles, if they're from a big brewery—Heineken, for example—is much easier than if you're a small independent brewery like Tenby Harbour Brewery, who sell across the UK, not just in Wales. So, why are you developing a policy that advocates in favour of what big international, multinational companies are advocating for and find easiest, and ignoring the plight that this would put on small Welsh businesses across our country?

Thanks, Sam. We're not doing what you say. What we're actually doing is developing a scheme with the supply chain, listening to them. We have the ability now as we take this forward to actually speak to them and develop it with them. I've actually been out with small breweries talking to them directly, as you have been, and talking through what they'd like to see in this scheme, how they'd like to see it designed so it works for them, so that it isn't simply for large brewers, it's also for smaller brewers as well. We also need to make sure that the scheme works for small retailers as well as large retailers.

It was disappointing, I have to say, that the previous UK Government walked away from an approach to a scheme that was agreed across the four nations and was consulted on; they unilaterally moved away from it. But the great advantage of where we are now in Wales is that we can look to those 53 plus other nations who've done this and have successfully engaged with smaller retailers, smaller brewers, smaller producers in order to get it right for them. So we can learn the lessons of what works really well.

What we will bring forward here in Wales is something that is devised with the help of the supply chain to get it right for Wales. I hope we will have support right across the Chamber for building on a scheme where we've already got to the point where we are second in the world on recycling. What we now need to do is go further into reuse, building on the scheme that we had in Brecon, building on the massive pilot that will come forward in Newport next year. Surely that has to be our ambition, Sam. And I say to all your Conservative colleagues: it's decarbonisation as well as de-littering and recycling.

Yn olaf, cwestiwn 8, Sioned Williams.

Diolch, Sioned. We are indeed committed to embedding our response to the nature and climate emergency into everything we do. Our recently published climate adaptation strategy for Wales sets out cross-cutting actions we are taking across all Cabinet portfolios to tackle the effects of our changing climate.

Diolch. Mae'r stormydd a'r llifogydd rŷn ni wedi eu profi dros yr wythnosau diwethaf yn brawf bod angen inni sicrhau bod y modd rŷn ni yn cyflawni polisïau mewn cymaint o feysydd yn fyw i effeithiau newid yn yr hinsawdd. Un enghraifft, wrth gwrs, yw sut ŷn ni'n adeiladu tai ac yn codi adeiladau. Rŷn ni'n deall o'r diwedd pwysigrwydd codi tai sy'n ynni effeithiol er mwyn lleihau allyriadau carbon, ond mae'r golygfeydd y gwelon ni ym Mhontypridd a llefydd eraill yn ddiweddar yn ein hatgoffa ni o bwysigrwydd ymateb i'r llifogydd mwy cyson yma rŷn ni'n mynd i'w gweld o ran sut a ble mae tai ac adeiladau yn cael eu codi er mwyn cynyddu eu gwytnwch i'r newid yma.

Rwyf wedi eich holi chi o'r blaen am barodrwydd y Llywodraeth i ystyried manteision cywarch diwydiannol, gan gyfeirio at astudiaeth gan Brifysgol Aberystwyth ar botensial mawr annog a hwyluso ffermwyr i fedru tyfu a phrosesu cywarch diwydiannol. Mae hempcrete yn ddeunydd adeiladu sy'n cyfrannu at allu cartrefi i wrthsefyll llwydni, mae'n sychu mas yn gynt, ac mae yn cynyddu, wrth gwrs, effeithlonrwydd ynni adeiladau. Mewn ymateb i fi, gwnaethoch chi gydnabod ei bod hi'n dechnoleg wirioneddol gyffrous, a gwnaethoch chi addo trafod gyda'ch swyddogion ac ymgysylltu â Llywodraeth y Deyrnas Gyfunol i weld pa botensial sydd ar gael ar gyfer cywarch ym maes adeiladu. Felly, dyma'r amser i achub ar y blaen, Ysgrifennydd Cabinet, a rhoi Cymru ar y droed flaen gyda'r dechnoleg yma. Oes gyda chi, felly, ddiweddariad? Ac a wnewch chi ystyried galw trafodaeth bord gron neu uwchgynhadledd gydag arbenigwyr yn y maes hwn i archwilio pa gamau y gallwch chi eu cymryd ar hyn?

I'm more than happy to engage with my Cabinet colleagues on the potential of hemp, not only from an agricultural point of view, but also from a building point of view as well. We had hemp producers, actually, at a recent climate-driven house building event that we had in Swansea several months ago, and it was good to see them there, amongst wood builders and so on as well. So, I'm more than happy to commit to that. I notice, at the fear of saying this, that we appear to have in you, Sioned, now an absolute champion for hemp in terms of agriculture, but also hemp in terms of building. It does indeed have potential. One of our focuses at the moment is actually to work on what we know there is already a supply chain in place for, and it's growing, which is those small and medium-scale developers of house building with wood—wood being used for construction. That's a real focus for us. But hemp is a part of the future, without a doubt, as well. So, yes, I'm more than happy to bring you updates as we go along with our discussions here and with the UK Government and others as well. 

Diolch i'r Ysgrifennydd Cabinet. 

O ran cwestiynau amserol heddiw, mae un cwestiwn wedi ei dderbyn, sef un gan Peredur Owen Griffiths. 

Diolch yn fawr am eich cwestiwn pwysig iawn. 

Earlier today, I issued a written statement about the unfolding situation in Syria. The situation is developing, but we all hope for a political solution that protects all civilians and minority communities. We join the UK Government in calling on all parties to support humanitarian access. 

Diolch yn fawr am yr ateb a diolch yn fawr am y datganiad yn gynharach. 

The fall of the Moscow-backed Assad regime in Syria has been welcomed since the news broke about this momentous chapter in history over the weekend. This has particularly been the case amongst the Welsh citizens with links to Syria that I have spoken to in the last few days. Some of these people with links to Syria have made their lives in Wales and made an immense contribution to our society, to our economy and to our public services. I note that there was a gathering on Sunday to mark the fall of Assad and celebrate what will hopefully be a transition to a free and democratic Syria. I'm hoping to host an event next week in the Senedd to bring those people together who make up the Syrian-Welsh society. 

The weekend's events may have brought old emotions and trauma to the surface for some. There may be a need for counselling as a result of that, so I wonder if that's something that the Government has considered. I want to know also what support and guidance this Government can give to these valued and esteemed members of our society. For example, can the Government liaise with the Foreign Office to ensure that our citizens with links to Syria can have assistance in tracing their relatives that they may have lost touch with during Assad's reign of terror? Can the Government also have dialogue with the foreign office to exert pressure to ensure that the situation does not allow opportunists from the Israeli Government to further their warmongering in the region? 

There also needs to be support for civil society in Syria to ensure, going forward, there is protection for all no matter what their ethnic background in what is a very diverse country that includes a sizeable Kurdish population, many of whom have a link to communities in Wales. Such conditions would present the greatest chance of delivering a peaceful and free Syria, which is surely what everybody wants.   

Thank you very much indeed, Peredur, for all those thoughts, reflections, questions and engagement. I think this is an opportunity, as I said in my written statement this morning, to recognise that extraordinary events are unfolding in Syria. The UK Government are monitoring them closely, and are in close contact with our international partners and our many Syrian contacts. Of course, also it is important to respond by saying that the UK continues to support those in need across Syria where it's safe to do so. Through non-governmental organisations and United Nations organisations, the UK is providing food, healthcare and other life-saving assistance. 

On 6 December, the UK Government announced an additional £300,000 in funding to the White Helmets—you know the White Helmets, of course. The funding will support search and rescue operations, facilitate humanitarian access, allow the expansion of their existing ambulance system and enable the safe removal of unexploded weapons. We, the Welsh Government, will work with the UK Government to understand any changes, how they may apply in relation to Syrians in Wales, and continue to provide inclusive support for as long as it's needed by people residing in Wales.

As I said in my statement, Wales has become home to over 2,000 Syrians since the conflict began in all our constituencies across Wales—a warm welcome from Wales as part of our nation of sanctuary, when they came to Wales since the conflict began in their homeland. Of course, Syrian-Welsh people and families will be watching developments and will be in contact with families as developments unfold in Syria. But also to make, again, the point, as I did in my written statement, that many who arrived in Wales from 2015 onwards have become valued members of our communities, contributing to our economy, our public services. In Wales, we pride ourselves on being a nation of sanctuary, and we'll continue to monitor the situation and support the Syrian community in Wales as the situation becomes clearer.

I echo some of the points that have been made by the Member for South Wales East. It is vital that support is available to Syrian families in Wales who will be affected by the developments in Syria over the past few days. I'm sure we all recognise that the political situation in Syria is very complicated. The country is now ungoverned and in a very unstable position. I'm sure the Trefnydd will agree with me that, given the limited responsibilities the Welsh Government has in this area, the Welsh Government's priority must be to reinforce its support for Syrian families here in Wales, and work with local agencies to help reconnect families with their loved ones as quickly and as safely as possible. Therefore, can the Trefnydd provide some more details on the work that is being undertaken with agencies across Wales to support Syrian families here in Wales? Can she also tell us what additional support the Welsh Government is making available to help Syrian families in Wales reconnect with their loved ones, should they wish to return to their homeland? Given that this is a reserved matter and not within the scope of the Welsh Government, can the Trefnydd tell us how the Welsh Government will be monitoring this situation in the days and weeks to come?

Thank you very much indeed, Paul Davies. I do want to assure Members that many Syrians in Wales continue to receive important support, principally from our local authorities, from the local authority resettlement teams, who have played such an important role in welcoming sanctuary seekers through many situations—Syrians, Afghans. They are really important in terms of Afghan refugees and Ukrainian refugees. Those local authority resettlement teams are clear about their responsibilities and the support they give. Many Syrians in Wales, as I've said, continue to receive that support. They can access our Wales sanctuary service, and we'll ensure that the sanctuary website is updated when we know more about UK Government actions and how people can make contact and follow up their family needs and circumstances.

I think it's important to say that the UK Government has been at the forefront of the response to these fast-moving events. They're speaking regularly to regional and other partners, and to ourselves in the Welsh Government, about the unfolding situation. As I said, they are calling on all parties to support humanitarian access, and also to ensure that they play their part in terms of how they can support those in need across Syria, where it's safe to do so.

Just to say there's no consular support available from within Syria to British nationals. Each request for consular assistance from Syria is considered on a case-by-case basis, taking into account relevant circumstances, including, of course, national security. If the Welsh Government becomes aware of consular cases in Syria, we will raise these with our partners in the Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office. There are tried-and-tested procedures in place between the Welsh and UK Governments to provide assistance to Welsh citizens who are affected by conflict or natural disasters. We put these in place, and they do work effectively. I hope that gives the Senedd some reassurance about that support and those connections and links to the UK Government.

Can I take the opportunity to thank all those community sponsor groups as well? I think the first community sponsor group for Syrian families was in your constituency, and then it spread, through Citizens Cymru, across. I certainly had Croeso Llantwit and Cowbridge both engaging with Citizens Cymru, and I know that is the case across Wales. But we will be closely in touch and our local authorities, through our sanctuary board, will be briefing us on developments.

Diolch i Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet.

Eitem 4 yw'r datganiadau 90 eiliad a dim ond un heddiw, a dwi'n galw ar Sioned Williams.

Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd. This week we mark Human Rights Day, which falls each year on 10 December. In his message for the day, UN Secretary General, António Guterres, said that

'Human rights are under assault.... This year’s theme'

of 'Our Rights, Our Future, Right Now',

'reminds us that human rights are about building the future—right now.... We must stand up for all rights—always.'

As chair of the cross-party group on human rights, I’m privileged to work with leading experts in and defenders of human rights in Wales, such as Professor Simon Hoffman of Swansea University’s Observatory on Human Rights and Social Justice. In a blog to mark Human Rights Day, Professor Hoffman has warned that we in Wales should be aware of the rise in so-called populist politics and its consequences, including an increase in hate speech and violence directed at minorities. And we should be troubled by the ongoing corrosive effect of poverty, inequality and discrimination, which is a blight on many communities in Wales and which denies individuals their basic human rights in areas such as housing, health, education and social care. These, he says, are very real and current threats to human rights at our doorstep here in Wales and they show no signs of diminishing. He says that we must remember that all levels of Government in the UK have a responsibility towards meeting the UK’s human rights obligations within their powers, including the Senedd, Welsh Government and other public bodies.

Wales has shown leadership on human rights, and inspired by the positive and demonstrable effect of the incorporation of the United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child into Welsh law, civil society in Wales have long called for the incorporation of further international human rights, such as those that protect and promote the interests of women and disabled people and the right to adequate housing. Welsh Government made a programme for government commitment to incorporate women’s rights and disabled people’s rights into Welsh law, but the Equality and Social Justice Committee, of which I’m a member, has recently reported on a worrying lack of prioritisation for this work of late.

Human rights are not just—

Sioned, it is a 90-second statement.

Yes, one sentence, if you would, Dirprwy Lywydd. Human rights are not just abstract ideas. Through different declarations, covenants and Bills, they are actionable standards. They are preventive, protective and transformative, and must remain a priority for us in Wales. In the words of Dr Martin Luther King Jr:

'A right delayed is a right denied.'

Diolch.

Yr eitem nesaf yw'r cynnig o dan Reol Sefydlog 16.3 i addasu cylch gwaith y Pwyllgor Biliau Diwygio. A galwaf ar aelod o'r Pwyllgor Busnes i wneud y cynnig yn ffurfiol—Jane Hutt.

I move formally.

Nid oes unrhyw siaradwyr ar yr eitem hon. Felly, y cwestiwn yw: a ddylid derbyn y cynnig? A oes unrhyw Aelod yn gwrthwynebu. Nac oes. Felly, derbynnir y cynnig yn unol â Rheol Sefydlog 12.36.

Eitem 6 yw'r cynnig i ethol Aelod i bwyllgor. A galwaf ar aelod o’r Pwyllgor Busnes i wneud y cynnig yn ffurfiol—Jane Hutt.

I move.

A'r cwestiwn yw: a ddylid derbyn y cynnig? Oes unrhyw Aelod yn gwrthwynebu? Nac oes. Felly, derbynnir y cynnig yn unol â Rheol Sefydlog 12.36.

Eitem 7 heddiw yw dadl ar adroddiad y Pwyllgor Cyllid, 'Cysylltiadau Rhynglywodraethol Cyllidol'. A galwaf ar Gadeirydd y pwyllgor i wneud y cynnig—Peredur Owen Griffiths.

Diolch yn fawr, Dirprwy Lywydd. Hoffwn ddiolch i bawb a roddodd dystiolaeth i’r pwyllgor fel rhan o’r ymchwiliad eang hwn, ac i Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet dros Gyllid a’r Gymraeg a’i ragflaenydd am eu gwaith ymgysylltu.

Rwyf hefyd yn ddiolchgar i’r Ysgrifennydd Cabinet am ei ymateb i’n hadroddiad cyn y ddadl hon, ac rwy’n falch o weld ei fod wedi ymateb yn gadarnhaol i’n hargymhellion, gyda phob un o’r rhai a gyfeiriwyd at Lywodraeth Cymru wedi’u derbyn naill ai mewn egwyddor neu’n llawn. Fodd bynnag, mae’n siomedig nad ydym hyd yn oed wedi cael cydnabyddiaeth o’n hadroddiad gan y Trysorlys, sydd yn anffodus yn adlewyrchu un o brif themâu ein hadroddiad.

Dirprwy Lywydd, fe wnaethon ni ddechrau ein hymchwiliad i gysylltiadau rhynglywodraethol cyllidol flwyddyn yn ôl, yn ôl ym mis Rhagfyr 2023, a chyhoeddwyd ein hadroddiad ym mis Hydref eleni. Yn ystod y cyfnod hwnnw, mae’r dirwedd wleidyddol ar lefel Cymru a lefel y DU wedi newid yn sylweddol.

While our report does not look into whether the change in Government at Westminster has led to improvements in fiscal inter-governmental relations—I believe that it is too early to do that—we were able to look at the mechanisms, cultures, attitudes and processes that underpin those relations. In particular, the committee wanted to shine a light on areas where improvements can be made and to set out some practical steps around how this can be achieved.

In particular, we looked at: the effectiveness of inter-governmental structures in addressing the principles for collaborative working relating to fiscal matters; the strengths and weaknesses of the Finance: Interministerial Standing Committee, or FISC; how the UK Government communicates with devolved administrations around fiscal events, in particular how Barnett consequentials could be communicated in a transparent and timely manner; what processes could be implemented to improve the influence of the Senedd on inter-governmental structures; whether the current dispute resolution mechanisms are fit for purpose; and to examine international examples of inter-governmental relations structures and identify areas of good practice relating to collaborative working on fiscal matters. Taken together, our findings provide a set of clear principles and examples of good practice as a basis for improvements in relations. The committee’s overriding view is that fiscal arrangements in the UK should be underpinned by logical structures and clear principles, rather than the whims or personalities of Treasury Ministers, which too often has been the case.

Dirprwy Lywydd, I now turn to specific recommendations, and would like to start on a positive note. The previous UK Government conducted a much-needed review of inter-governmental structures in 2022. We found that these are a significant improvement on what went before. In particular, the establishment of the Prime Minister and Heads of Devolved Governments Council is a significant development in building trust and effective channels of communication, and we note that the First Minister attended its first meeting in October. There have also been positive developments in relation to dispute resolution, which prevents the UK Government denying the existence of a dispute and applies independent chairing and secretariat arrangements.

We welcome the establishment of the Finance: Interministerial Standing Committee, or FI