National Assembly for Wales

Good afternoon and welcome to this Plenary meeting. The first item on our agenda this afternoon will be questions to the First Minister, and the first question is from Llyr Gruffydd.

I thank Llyr Gruffydd. Llywydd, significant investment, policy reform and passing radical new legislation will help to improve the network. Long-term sustainability depends upon growing passenger numbers to pre-pandemic levels and beyond.

Thank you for that response. As buses account for some three quarters of all use of public transport in Wales, it's sad to see that around 10 per cent of bus routes in Wales have been reduced or entirely cancelled during last summer because of the funding pressures, and that's according to the Confederation of Passenger Transport. They also estimate that between 15 per cent and 25 per cent of all remaining routes will be at risk of either being cut or facing significant changes over the coming 12 months. Now, one understands the tension, and it's been raised here in this Chamber before, between funding buses and funding railways, and we're aware of the £235 million of additional funding that's been provided to Transport for Wales for railways. But bearing in mind, as I was saying, that three quarters of all public transport journeys in Wales are undertaken on a bus, do you believe that your Government's got the funding balance between funding trains and funding buses right?

Well, this is an important question, Llywydd. As people will be aware, the problem is that it is nearly impossible to withdraw funding from rail because there are always costs there. So, we fund the rail services because we want to increase the possibilities for people to travel from north to south Wales, and things have improved over recent months. We are funding buses here in Wales. We have given more money from the public purse to keep buses going in Wales than ever before. The problem is the number of people who travel on rail services is back to pre-pandemic levels. Well, that's not true at all of bus services. Now, we are investing a lot of money in north Wales bus services, to provide more services, and to help people who travel to have affordable services, but the greatest challenge in the area of bus services is to increase the number of people using bus services. That will provide more funding for the people running bus services, and then, in that way, we can continue to provide services for those who rely on bus services. And we know, as Llyr Gruffydd said, that more people use buses in Wales than who use trains.

First Minister, I'll focus on rail just for a moment—an issue affecting, of course, my residents in north Wales. Recent figures unveiled by S4C's Y Byd ar Bedwar programme showed that the Welsh Labour Government's rail provider, Transport for Wales, had had over a million minutes of delays last year alone. In addition, more than 83,000 formal complaints about the service have been made since 2020 by unhappy customers up and down Wales. Is this something you're comfortable with?

Well, Llywydd, let's unpack that figure just for a moment, because just on a half of that million minutes are caused by Network Rail, not by Transport for Wales at all. They are caused by Network Rail cancelling services, carrying out work at the last minute. Yesterday, Network Rail announced that it will close the line between Shrewsbury and Birmingham, and that it will stay closed until 25 March. That will affect Sam Rowlands's constituents, because trains to Aberystwyth, to Pwllheli, to Holyhead will all be affected. And no doubt, some journalist somewhere will add up the minutes and say, 'Isn't that dreadful?', as though that was Transport for Wales's responsibility. But not a single one of those minutes will be; it will be the actions of the non-devolved Network Rail. It is why the Office of Rail and Road are investigating poor Network Rail performance here in Wales. So, when you get under the bonnet of those figures, far from as the Member was attempting to say that this is all some failure of the transport service here in Wales, it turns out that half of it—and that's a minimum, I would say—half of it is the effect of decisions made by the non-devolved Network Rail service.

First Minister, last month I celebrated my sixtieth birthday, you'll be pleased to hear. So, I am now the proud owner of a bus pass, which I've been enjoying using every time I can find a bus, and it's been great to be able to use public transport in the way that the card was designed to enable us all to do, those of us who have survived 60 years on the planet. But I was thinking, First Minister—. I was having this conversation with my daughter in her twenties and my teenage son, and wouldn't it be great if we could find a way of enabling young people to use a bus pass as well, to enable young people to pick up that habit of using public transport, to use a bus and to use the trains, wherever appropriate, so that we can ensure that young people in this country today have the same opportunity to catch buses and to enjoy using public transport?

Well, Llywydd, I thank Alun Davies for that. Some of us think fondly of our sixtieth birthdays—[Laughter.]—and the opportunities that we've had for longer than he has to use the bus pass. Look, the bus pass was a hallmark decision of the Assembly, as it then was, in its very first term, and it has made an enormous difference in the lives of older and disabled people in Wales. I very well remember reading the letters that came in to the office of the then First Minister from people who would explain how now they were able to do all sorts of things that, up until then, had simply been beyond their means to do so. And they were simple things, Llywydd, but what a difference they made in the lives of those people: a chance to go an visit your sister who lived just further down the valley, a chance to go and see something that mattered to you but you hadn't been able to be there for many years. So, the bus pass for people aged 60 and over and for disabled people has been a fundamental part of what devolution has achieved here in Wales. But it would be great, as Alun Davies says, to be able to invest more in creating the public transport users of the future, and we do that already. We already provide reduced price travel for young people on buses, and particularly new services for very young people on trains. Had the settlement for the Welsh Government stayed in line with the growth in the economy as a whole, we would have money available to us to do exactly that and to make those investment decisions in the future. And I look forward to a period in the next five years of devolution when those opportunities will come our way again. 

Llywydd, I thank Adam Price for that. Domestic steel production is of strategic importance to Wales and the rest of the United Kingdom. Expert plans, developed and presented by the steel trades unions, provide a credible and immediate plan to retain steel production in Wales.

We're coming close to the end of the 45-day period of formal consultation, aren't we, First Minister. Now, if Tata reject the unions' plans and continue with their proposals to close down both blast furnaces over the next few months, we know the UK Government will do nothing in response to save steel production. The question is what can we do here in Wales. Could the First Minister say if there's been consideration or discussion by officials or Ministers on the use of the Welsh Government's powers to bring forward emergency legislation to effectively place a preservation order, if you like, through compulsory purchase of the blast furnaces themselves, so to preserve their physical integrity and prevent their demolition or their degradation, and to maintain them, so that, over the next few months, while we wait, hopefully, for a change in industrial policy in the UK Government, they can then provide the basis for a sustainable future for steel production in Wales and, indeed, for the rest of the UK?

I thank Adam Price for that, Llywydd. I read his contribution to the debate that resulted in a unanimous resolution passed here on the floor of the Senedd. I know that his contribution is meant seriously as a positive contribution to the debate, but can I just say to him that I think this is the wrong moment to be discussing that? I do not want us to say anything that undermines the case the trade unions are making, not for some fallback plan, not for something if things don't go the way the trade unions would like to see it. I want us to see this Government put all our energy and our commitment behind the plan that the trade unions have developed—a credible plan, to quote Tata Steel. At this moment, I think if we start talking about what do we do if a plan fails, actually we're going to drain some energy and some potential out of the efforts that our trade union colleagues—very much with the support of this Government and with the support across the Chamber—are making today in their discussions with the company. I want us to be focused on that. That was the focus of the discussion that Eluned Morgan held when she was in Mumbai with the company. The economy Minister will be meeting the chief executive of Tata Steel again tomorrow here in Wales. We will be focused, Llywydd, not on what happens if the plan fails, but in doing everything that we can to make that plan succeed. And with the prospect of a Labour Government potentially on the horizon, with an entirely new level of ambition and support for that industry, I think that plan has a real chance of succeeding. Supporting that plan is what we are doing today and will go on doing over the weeks to come.

It's interesting to hear to First Minister and in particular Plaid Cymru say that the UK Government has done nothing in Port Talbot, whereas, in fact, what the UK Government has done is secure the future of the steel industry in south Wales with a £500 million support package to help Tata as it transitions to a greener future, but also securing that £100 million transition fund to help workers who will be affected in Port Talbot by the changes. To date, the Welsh Government hasn't put a single penny into either pot. It hasn't put a penny to support any worker in Port Talbot at all. It is a disgrace. Why hasn't the Welsh Government done that, and will they do that now?

Well, Llywydd, the Member is mistaken almost from start to finish in what he said. I have never said that the UK Government had done nothing. I was very glad to have a conversation with the Chancellor of the Exchequer, Jeremy Hunt, in the lead-up to the announcement, and I welcomed the announcement at the time. So, we've never not recognised the fact that £500 million is a major commitment to the future of the steel industry. Unfortunately, it is not sufficient to secure a just transition to that future. That's where our discussions have been, on creating a pathway to that electric arc future that offers people who work in that industry today a hope that their futures will be secured in that process. That will need a Labour Government to do that. What we face in the current Government is a Prime Minister who won't take a phone call on the day when 3,000 jobs are lost, and a Secretary of State who has never once visited Port Talbot. Can you imagine that? A Secretary of State responsible for the future of the UK steel industry who has not once in all those months been prepared to come to Wales to discuss the future of the plant. And, Llywydd, just to be clear, the Member is completely wrong about Welsh Government investment in that industry. We have, over a decade—. I don't think there's barely a year in the last 10 years when the Welsh Government hasn't invested alongside Tata in the skills development of that workforce, in the research and development aspect of Tata steel, and in environmental improvements in the plant in Port Talbot. Year in, year out, we have been there, and that isn't going to change.

As an ex-steelworker, possibly the only one in the Senedd, I am a strong supporter of the continuation of steel making and iron making in Wales. Electric arc furnaces have the following weaknesses: firstly, they're dependent on sufficient quality recyclable steel; secondly, they're dependent upon low electricity prices; and limited types of steel are able to be produced. Will the First Minister make further representations to both Tata and the Westminster Government regarding the continuity of iron and steel making in Port Talbot, because that's the only way it's going to have a long-term future?

Well, Llywydd, Mike Hedges is absolutely right: the electric arc possibilities for Port Talbot are real and important, but they're not sufficient. That is why keeping that second blast furnace going during the coming years is so important, not just to the workers, not just to the town, but to the whole of the United Kingdom. Because, if we don't do that, the whole of the United Kingdom will lose the opportunity for virgin steel making, exposing us in a way you absolutely would have thought that the UK Government would have learned its lesson on this. Look at the impact of the war in Ukraine on supply chains, on things that people thought that they could rely on and now find that they can't at all. To put ourselves knowingly and deliberately in that same position in relation to something as basic as steel making, something that you need for electric vehicles, that you need for floating offshore wind, that a mature economy simply cannot do without—. That's why it's important to keep that second blast furnace going and, in the meantime, technologies will go on maturing. Things that electric arc furnaces cannot do today may be possible and there may be other ways of producing those steel products in the future. What we cannot afford—the United Kingdom cannot afford—is an abrupt end to steel making of that sort today and then a gap opening up before we're able to replace that capacity in the future.

Questions now from the party leaders. The leader of the Conservatives,  Andrew R.T. Davies. 

Thank you, Presiding Officer. First Minister, last week, I challenged you on various comments and evidence that had been made to the COVID inquiry. You wouldn't answer those questions, and I accept the point that you made, that you had due respect and regard for the COVID inquiry. But here we are on the floor of the Welsh Parliament. Over the weekend, I tuned into a radio programme on Times Radio. You were quite happy to wax lyrical on there about the COVID inquiry and your relationship with the UK Government. Why is there a difference in your ability to speak about the COVID response of the Welsh Government to the media, but you're not prepared to speak on the floor of the Welsh Parliament when you're challenged on the evidence that's in the public domain?

Well, Llywydd, my answers to the journalist who interviewed me were very carefully crafted to make sure that I said only things that I have said time and time again already here on the floor of the Senedd and elsewhere. I said nothing in that interview that is not already and many, many times over in the public domain. There is a world of difference in just repeating what has already been said and being asked to pre-empt an examination that I will undergo tomorrow, under oath, in front of a statutory inquiry and a judge of the Court of Appeal. Those things are simply not comparable. 

No-one's asking you to pre-empt the questions, when the line of questioning is put to you, First Minister, and the line of questioning that the journalist put was very broad; it was about the relationship that you as a Welsh Government had with the UK Government. And you were quite willing to engage in that discussion. What I've heard over the last week from the COVID inquiry, which is in the public domain, is how many Welsh Government Ministers, as we heard yesterday, use Senedd-provided devices in their communications. Now, what I'd like to try and understand—. So, it's not pre-empting responses that you might give tomorrow, but it's the protocol that the Welsh Government operates under with retention of information, given that Ministers, such as the economy Minister, highlighted how it was embarrassing that data was lost because the Senedd IT department lost that data when they were upgrading his phone—and you've alluded to the fact that you've used your Senedd device to have exchanges on WhatsApp—how the protocols that the Welsh Government work to in retention of information reaches into devices that are provided by the Senedd. Surely there’s a discrepancy there, and, if it doesn’t get captured by the protocols that the Welsh Government undertakes, how on earth can people have confidence that important information is contained and held ready for descriptions and evidence in the COVID inquiry or other inquiries that might require that information?

Well, Llywydd, protocols do exist for the way in which Ministers use electronic devices, whether those are Welsh Government devices or the devices that every one of us is supplied with as a result of our membership of the Senedd. Those protocols are to be found amongst the more than 35,000 documents that the Welsh Government has disclosed to the inquiry, and the inquiry will itself disclose those documents that it believes to be relevant into the public domain.

I’m very reluctant to get drawn into what the inquiry has discussed, Llywydd, for all the reasons I described last week. I think I would be on safe enough ground to say this—that this issue of how electronic communications are used has been a theme of the inquiry in every place it has visited. It was exhaustively rehearsed with UK Ministers, it was a focus of the inquiry in Scotland, and it has been rehearsed in Wales. I’ve no doubt that the inquiry itself will be thinking about recommendations that it may make for the future if there are any new protocols that need to be developed.

We were constantly told that the Welsh Government was led by the science. As opposition Members, we are being led by the evidence when it comes to trying to understand how Welsh Government, how special advisers, how the civil servants and other decision makers arrived at the decisions that impacted everyone's lives in this country, and key decisions that either led to life-and-death situations for many people—that was the severity and the magnitude of the decisions that were being taken. And I know, First Minister, that you felt that burden, just like every other decision maker felt it as well. So, I'm not trying to diminish the level of expectation that was on your shoulders, and indeed other decision makers across the United Kingdom. But it is incumbent on us to try and understand how those decisions were arrived at and how they were enacted.

Last week, your senior special adviser, in cross-examination by the chair of the inquiry herself, Baroness Hallett, said that she misused her personal phone for communications within Government. Those were her words; she admitted that. So, under the civil service code that governs the relationship between senior civil servants and also special advisers, given that admission, what action are you taking as First Minister to bring the disciplinary process to bear as it would be used on any minor or junior official if such a disclosure had come about? Or are you prepared not to act and allow such a transgression to get away with it?

Well, Llywydd, let me respond first of all to the point that the leader of the opposition made. The pandemic touched the lives of everyone who lived in Wales, and many families lost loved ones, and the inquiry is there to shine a spotlight onto the way in which decisions here were made here in Wales. I'm very glad indeed that it spent the time it has here in Wales and it has been able to ask the questions that it has asked. That will not be the sum total of the evidence, as the leader of the opposition has said, that is available to people in Wales. As well as all the documents that have been submitted to the inquiry, the more than 100 statements that have been submitted to it in response to rule 9 requests, there will be all that information that already lies there on the record: more than 250 press conferences in which Ministers appeared and answered questions from journalists of whatever description—we never once denied access to a press conference to any journalist who asked to attend—the tens and tens of statements, debates, questions that have been answered on the floor of this Senedd; the sessions that he and his predecessor as leader of the opposition—. And I was always very grateful to you both for coming every week to be able to hear directly from the chief medical officer, the chief scientific officer, the chief executive of the NHS here in Wales, so that you would have access to the best information that was available to us as a Welsh Government. The record is immense of the evidence that is available, and I want to make sure that anyone who has questions to ask about what happened in those very difficult days has the ability to interrogate that record.

On the Member's final point, Llywydd, I am not responsible for the civil service code; I am responsible for the ministerial code. Special advisers are civil servants, and it is the Permanent Secretary's responsibility to exercise authority in relation to those matters, not mine.

And before I move on, just for the record, I am responsible for the Senedd Commission staff, and I'm sure the leader of the opposition did not seek to imply any criticism of the ICT Senedd staff, in his questioning of the First Minister, on any data that was lost by the ICT department. Software updates are very complex and have consequences on all our devices, and it was most definitely not as a result of the Senedd ICT department that the data was lost. So, any criticism of the staff of that department, I'm sure you did not imply that.

The leader of Plaid Cymru now, Rhun ap Iorwerth.

Diolch, Llywydd. Many people were incredulous that the First Minister would refuse to answer questions here in the Senedd last week on the COVID pandemic, whilst being willing to answer questions in that Times Radio interview just a few days later. The First Minister has told us today that, in that interview, he was able to give very carefully crafted answers to the journalist. I'm sure he's not suggesting that there had been an agreement in advance what questions exactly he would be asked by the journalist. As a former broadcast journalist myself, I'm sure that is not how it would happen. And I know that he is perfectly able to carefully craft answers here in the Parliament too. But will the First Minister admit now that his failure to answer those questions last week, whilst being willing to give the radio interview, will be seen as an attempt to avoid parliamentary scrutiny?

No, Llywydd, I entirely reject that. It's a nonsensical accusation, and the leader of Plaid Cymru ought to know better than to make it. Because I answer questions on the floor of this Senedd every week. I will be here next week, as the Llywydd said, answering questions after I have given my evidence. I will be answering questions next week in front of the Committee for the Scrutiny of the First Minister. I will answer questions at the right moment. When I said here last week, and, as I said today, when I answer questions in a journalist's interview—. And, of course, on that, at least, the leader of Plaid Cymru was right: I had no idea what questions I would be asked. But, when I was asked a question that might have a bearing on my evidence in front of the inquiry, I was scrupulous to make sure that I said nothing that was not already available on the public record. And that's the respect that I will show to the inquiry.

And, of course, the First Minister is perfectly able to craft those answers in exactly the same way here in the Senedd, and to avoid what he might see as pitfalls of prejudicing his evidence to the COVID inquiry tomorrow. I repeat what I said last week: it is our job to scrutinise, the First Minister's job to open himself up to scrutiny—as, of course, he does on many occasions—but we get to choose when we ask the questions that we want to ask. Now, I sincerely hope that the next First Minister will open himself to scrutiny too. The front-runner for that job, the health Minister during the pandemic, of course, gave evidence to the inquiry yesterday. Let's look at what we learnt from that session: inadequate preparation for the wrong pandemic; WhatsApp messages lost; personal protective equipment not fit for purpose; lockdown modelling carried out too late; the wrong decision on the six nations rugby match. All of these admissions give rise to more questions than answers, but there's barely any time to ask them, of course. There were some technical difficulties yesterday, but the chair of the inquiry said that Vaughan Gething's evidence still had to be wrapped up the same day—just a practical example of why a Wales-specific COVID inquiry is needed, but, of course, the First Minister refused to give us that inquiry. So, will he tell us here in the Senedd today which aspect of Vaughan Gething's evidence does he find most troubling?

Well, of course I won't, Llywydd, because the Member's question is a vivid illustration of why that sort of question is not properly put to me before I answer questions in front of the inquiry. He says to me, 'Of course I could craft a careful answer to his question', and had he asked me a question that did not immediately draw me into the evidence that is being provided—evidence on oath, evidence to a statutory inquiry—. It's absolutely wrong, Llywydd, and that question was a most vivid illustration of just how wrong you can be in trying to replay on the floor of the Senedd an inquiry that has been set up specifically in order to be able to examine, in this case, the actions of the Welsh Government. He's wrong to ask me and I will not be drawn into that conversation. 

Obviously, it's a matter of regret that the First Minister can't differentiate between parliamentary scrutiny and the questions that he will rightly be asked by the COVID inquiry itself. The Times Radio interview that I referred to earlier has been revealing in contexts other than just COVID. Speaking of the UK Labour leader, Keir Starmer, the First Minister said, 'If I ever need to speak to him, I send a text and within an hour we're on the phone, speaking.' So, on Sunday, when the would-be Labour Chancellor, Rachel Reeves, refused to rule out spending cuts in some areas, did the First Minister text Keir Starmer then to spell out how disastrous that would be for Wales? If so, how quickly did he respond and what did he say?

Well, Llywydd, the reason that I can be confident that if I ask for a conversation with Keir Starmer I will get it is because I would never fritter away those opportunities by doing the sort of thing that the leader of Plaid Cymru has just suggested. I know that if I want to have a proper conversation about matters that are of significance to Wales, then I must use those opportunities for those purposes. His question, designed to suggest that, somehow, a call from me on that matter would be consequential, is so removed from the realities of how parties that have to be in government, rather than in the business of pressure group and—well, I'll stop there. [Interruption.] Well, parties that operate on the basis of being pressure groups, rather than being serious parties of government. I'm afraid his question simply exposes the gulf that still exists.

I thank Cefin Campbell for that question, Llywydd. All of the funding available through the rural development programme for Wales 2014-20 from the European Union, namely £846 million, was successfully invested in Wales. That achievement shows our commitment to supporting rural development.

Thank you, First Minister. You may recall that the first question I asked you in this Chamber, back in 2021, was whether there was a need to create a rural regeneration strategy and also a strategy to tackle the unique problems facing rural Wales. Essentially, the response I received was, 'No', because, according to you, there are no economic and social issues that are uniquely rural, and they are no different to the problems facing urban areas.

Now, since then, evidence from the Bevan Foundation shows that it's rural communities that have been hit worst during the cost-of-living crisis. Off-grid households face fuel poverty. Public transport in rural areas is shrinking. There are ongoing problems in terms of the shortage of childcare, broadband not being appropriate, a lack of quality jobs, and so on and so forth. Given that you, as a Government, have been refusing to tackle this, I've done some work of my own on rural poverty, and I will be launching a draft strategy the week after next. So, can I ask you once again, First Minister, possibly for the last time: do you agree with me that it is now time for us to develop a regeneration strategy for rural Wales?

I thank Cefin Campbell. I do remember the original question after the election in 2021. Many of the points made by the Member are important and relevant. Of course, some issues in rural areas are different to those facing people who live in Riverside in the west of Cardiff. I could make a number of points about a scheme to respond to the problems of the people who live on an estate in Ely, for example, which are very different to those of people who live in rural areas, but the point is whether there are strategic elements that are different. Of course, the points that are relevant to rural Wales are different, but is the strategy different? To me, the important thing is to have a strategy for the economy of Wales as a whole. That will raise people living in rural areas and those living in cities and those living in the Valleys as well. And I would much prefer to try to think about Wales as a whole in a strategic way and, at the same time, to create solutions that respond to those things that are different in a number of different contexts in Wales.

First Minister, I always think that rural development starts with rural growth, and my colleague Sam Kurtz and the cross-party group on rural growth generated their report last week on growth in the rural economy, which he's showing a lovely prop for there. It had a number of recommendations, and one was establishing a development board in rural Wales to help facilitate rural growth, set a clear strategy for rural Wales and set infrastructure targets on how we can improve rural Wales. A lot of constituents I speak to about when we had the old rural development board say that it was very good and that a lot of the concerns that businesses had were listened to and actioned upon. So, one of the key recommendations in the report was re-establishing that, so I'm just interested, First Minister, as perhaps one of your parting gambits as the First Minister of Wales, whether this is something that you would like to initiate from the Welsh Government.

Llywydd, I'd like to begin by thanking the cross-party group, and Sam Kurtz in leading it, for the report. I've had a chance to read it. It's a good read and it will be very important material for an incoming First Minister and the team of Ministers that he will lead. As in any report, there were parts of it that I agreed with and there were parts of it that I didn't agree with. It's going to be a report that deserves that sort of debate and consideration. I thought it had very important things to say, for example, on skills development in the rural economy. I thought it had some interesting things to say on joint forums, in which we can come together to make sure that the variety of perspectives on how to do better in the future can be brought together. I didn't agree with some of the things that it said about planning rules. I didn't agree with some of the things that it said about rural tourism, although I agreed with other things that it said on that matter.

What I'm probably myself not attracted to, Llywydd—but it won't be for me—is the idea of going back to something that was there before. Just as James Evans has met people who tell him how good it was in the old days of the rural development board, I can remember, here on the floor of the Assembly, people being perfectly critical of that board at the time when it was in operation. So, I don't think it's the best course of action to think that you can recreate, in today's conditions, something that was relevant in its time. The idea of a forum that can bring people together is different and I think that's where the debate on the report would be most fruitfully held.

I'm often frustrated, as a Llywydd, in not being able to respond on a particular policy point that's being discussed on the floor of the Senedd. As somebody who used to work for the development board for rural Wales in the 1990s, I'm particularly frustrated at this point, but we'll leave it there, to be continued. 

Question 4, John Griffiths.

Can I thank John Griffiths, Llywydd? Tackling climate change has to be a collective effort. I commend Newport City Council for its joint work with the Welsh Government to support decarbonisation, leading by example to provide zero-emission vehicles and electric vehicle charging infrastructure in the Member's constituency.

Thank you very much for that answer, First Minister. We know that Wales is a world leader in municipal recycling rates, and I'm very pleased that you've recognised the role of Newport City Council, and I think the same is true of Monmouthshire County Council in my area, in terms of the work that they've carried out and the contribution that they have made.

Under devolution, First Minister, we've seen municipal recycling rates increase from under 5 per cent to now almost 66 per cent, to place Wales as an absolute world leader. That is such a huge success story for the Assembly, now Senedd, that I think it should be widely recognised in this Chamber and beyond, First Minister. But, as ever, the question is how we build on that success. I know that Welsh Government has invested, I think, around £1 billion in municipal recycling since the advent of devolution, but could you tell us today, First Minister, how we will build on that, how Welsh Government will build on that success to drive up recycling rates even further, working with our key partners and stakeholders?

I thank John Griffiths for that. He's right to celebrate the achievements of Welsh local authorities. Five local authorities in Wales already meet or exceed the new statutory target of a minimum of 70 per cent being recycled. That includes Monmouthshire, and I'm sure that that is the result of the efforts of the current administration, but it will, undoubtedly, draw on a longer history of successful work in that field. Llywydd, let me give you just one other, I think, remarkable figure of Welsh success in this area. In 2012-13, 42 per cent of waste in Wales was disposed of via landfill—42 per cent. That figure in 2022-23, 10 years later, was 1.6 per cent. That is utterly remarkable, isn't it, the way in which not only have we succeeded in driving up recycling rates, but we have avoided the worst consequences of waste going to landfill.

Now, John Griffiths asks how will we do more, Llywydd. In April of this year, we will take a very important step forward. I commend the work of the Minister for Climate Change in this area. I noticed, last week on the floor of the Senedd, Conservative Members were asking us to slow down what we are intending to do, but we won't be doing that, because, just as Welsh citizens have made enormous efforts, so now we need Welsh businesses to play their part in that recycling effort as well. The workplace recycling regulations will require all business, public and third sector workplaces to separate key recyclable materials, just in the way that almost everybody in this Chamber probably does every week in their own households. That will increase recycling, it will reduce even further the amount of waste sent for incineration and to landfill. It will improve the quality and quantity of recyclable materials as part of that circular economy we're trying to achieve here in Wales. In doing that, we will find a way, even more swiftly, to the future that we want to create here in Wales.

First Minister, yesterday, the Deputy Minister for Climate Change published a written statement about rural transport. In it, he said that

'the Welsh Government is committed to see public transport, walking and cycling trips account for 45% of journeys by 2040'

to help meet carbon emission targets. Now, for many across Wales, First Minister, this is simply not doable with an unreliable public transport network. Just look at the latest shocking statistics about Labour-owned Transport for Wales. TfW racked up more than 1 million minutes' worth of delays in 2023, and that's the worst record to date—[Interruption.]

She only just arrived.

This is despite the Welsh Government pumping a staggering £1 billion of taxpayers' cash into the organisation. So, First Minister, I do have to ask: how proud are you of Transport for Wales and how much it's been performing under your watch, and do you agree that it's going to be incredibly difficult to get people to use public transport when this is the reality on the ground?

Well, Llywydd, there's an awful warning in the Member's question about reading out a question that somebody's written for you in advance, and, as far as I can tell, asking it in the wrong question as well, because question 1 was the question that dealt with public transport here. And I dealt then with the spurious point about the 1 million minutes that the Member then just repeated in her question.

This Government continues to be completely ambitious, Llywydd, for the way in which, not just in recycling, not just in the way in which buildings will have to change, we will all have to be prepared to change the way in which we travel if we are going to make the contribution that Wales needs to make to meet our climate change targets. There’s no part of our lives that will be left untouched by the collective effort that has to be made if we are to hand on the planet to those who come after us in a fit state for their futures. That’s why we do not stand back from our ambitions for active travel; that’s why we don’t stand back from our ambitions to make sure that people are able to walk, to cycle, to use public transport. The UK Government may today turn its back even further on its green credentials by embarking on a new generation of gas-fired power stations with no plans—no plans at all—for carbon capture in them; this Government has always taken our responsibilities seriously.

In the last six years we have fundamentally reformed services for children with additional learning needs, developed and implemented a new Curriculum for Wales, and created a new Commission for Tertiary Education and Research. These, and other developments, will go on improving education in Wales for many years to come.

First Minister, since you entered office, Welsh education can be summed up with one word: failure. Since you became First Minister, your Government has cut education budgets to the bone year on year in cash terms—£56 million was the most recent one. The Government has failed to address the teacher recruitment and retention crisis in Wales—and it is a crisis, particularly this Government failing to attract teachers to teach through the medium of Welsh in core subjects. There has been a stark rise in bad behaviour and violence—5,000 incidents in the past five years. I visited a primary school yesterday that was shocking. I did not expect them to come to me with a very real problem with violence and bad behaviour in their school.

Absenteeism is still rising, school transport is still not adequate, education standards are at an all-time low, Wales is falling at the bottom of the PISA rankings, far behind its UK counterparts—I could go on and on, First Minister. Quite simply, your Government has failed a generation of learners throughout Wales, particularly those with additional learning needs, the result being me witnessing teachers in tears as I travel around Wales to visit schools. First Minister, I simply want to know this: why have you not prioritised education? Why have you not prioritised every child in this country getting the very best education they deserve? Instead, you are prioritising more money for more politicians over teachers and support for our schools.

In the great Conservative tradition here, the Member has not a good word to say for any staff member or any child here in Wales. She asked me about the last six years. Let me give her just six good examples of how this Government goes on investing in education.

The first is the childcare offer, the astonishing success of the Flying Start investment that we've made as part of our co-operation agreement, with over 120 per cent achieved in phase 1, and 9,500 extra children to become involved in that very early years education through phase 2. What a contrast to the scheme in England, which is falling apart in front of people's eyes as the Government fails to produce those places. Here in Wales, there are 9,500 places—not a plan, but actually happening in Wales.

Let me give her the second reason that she can be a bit more cheerful than she managed earlier on: universal free school meals for our children—opposed, of course, by her party. Some 150,000 extra pupils are benefiting from that policy, with 17 million additional free meals provided to children in our schools.

She tried to run down Welsh-medium education amongst her assault on education. Welsh-medium education is the great success story of the last 25 years, and this Government has been on that journey every step of the way. And now we have our late immersion service, another outstanding example, with interest in it from around the world, of how you can help young people later on in their education career attain an ability in the Welsh language so that they can complete their education in that way.

There's the Seren programme; 53 per cent of all young people who take part in it go on to Russell Group universities. We have top-performing A-level students who outperform their counterparts in England year after year. And that growing number of young people from Wales will go on to study at higher education, with the fastest growth of all coming from those young people who live in disadvantaged communities. That's the record of education in Wales, that's the achievement of our young people, that's why the staff in our schools are so valued and deserve to be appreciated.

Llywydd, maybe I'll end with this point: I see in the latest opinion poll that, of 18 to 24-year-olds in Wales, 93 per cent intend to vote for parties other than the Conservative Party. That suggests to me that something is going right in our education service.

To illustrate all the points that you've made, First Minister, last week, Huw Irranca-Davies, MS for Ogmore, and I visited Sony, based in Bridgend, and we got to sit in on one of their educational sustainability workshops with Porthcawl Comprehensive School. Honestly, we were blown away by how engaged, innovative and articulate they were. They were dying to stand up and explain to us their scientific solutions for tackling climate change. Much of it was what you've always taught us—the wind, water, waves. But not only that; many of them said that they wanted to study to be engineers and wanted to know more about Sony's apprenticeships and graduate programmes. So, First Minister, how can we continue, for the next six years, 10 years, to foster this passion, enjoyment, purpose and curiosity that students have—now and through lifelong learning? Diolch.

I thank Sarah Murphy. What a different contribution. What it is to celebrate the young people we have here in Wales, with all their energy, their ambition, their wish to make a contribution to the future of our nation. I thank her for drawing attention to the importance of engineering studies in the lives of those young people. Let me just commend the work that Sarah herself and other colleagues in this Chamber have done, particularly to support women in science, technology, engineering and mathematics subjects here in Wales. If we are going to capture that enthusiasm, that commitment of our young people, it has to be all of our young people. That half of the population who will be our future need to know that the STEM subjects and the careers that flow from them are equally available to them and that there are amazing role models for them here in Wales that they can look to, to help shape their own futures.

Legislation in this Senedd term will extend entitlement to a personal adviser to every care-experienced young person until they are 25 years old. The first ever national standards for childcare social work practice will include specific standards for transition, which advisers can help secure.

Thank you for that response.

It's great to hear what progress has been made. There are many areas that we could look at in terms of transitional services for a child moving to adulthood: mental health, children with disabilities moving into the adult world of being disabled. We have anorexia and eating disorder services as well, where we know there are difficulties moving from being a child to being an adult. But I just want to focus on one specific area, which is homelessness. You touched there on care-experienced young people. There is a concern that the current proposals from the Welsh Government in the White Paper around housing and homelessness actually require a care-experienced young person to identify themselves as care experienced before they would be entitled to housing. I guess the issue, really, is that if there's been good multi-agency working, there should be no burden for that young person to have to identify themselves. So, I just wonder if we could relook at the corporate parenting charter to make sure that there's clarity there that a care-experienced person therefore does not have to identify themselves in order to be entitled to housing. Diolch yn fawr iawn, Llywydd.

Thank you to Jane Dodds for those supplementary questions.

The White Paper has closed its consultation phase, the responses to it are being analysed, and I'm sure the points that Jane Dodds has made on the floor of the Senedd this afternoon will be taken into account in that. My reading of the White Paper is slightly different to her own, because my understanding of the White Paper is that it doesn't put an obligation on the young person; it is that housing authorities are required to make sure that they provide those additional services to somebody from the care system. I entirely agree with the point that Jane Dodds has made, Llywydd, that the onus for that must not sit with the young person themselves. It is for the housing authority to make those inquiries, particularly if the young person is known to the system already and that local authority is the child's parent. It's not for the child to make that known; it's for the authority itself. I think that is where the White Paper suggests the responsibility should lie. It's absolutely not what we want to have a young person to have to relive the difficult and sometimes traumatic experiences that they have gone through in order to be able to open the door to the services that they need. It's for public authorities to take that responsibility on themselves, and I'm sure the Minister will be reinforcing that point as we work our way through the responses to the consultation.

I thank Hefin David for that question. The publication of the bus reform road map this month marks a huge milestone in our programme, which is more ambitious than any other across the UK. It will culminate in legislation to ensure that buses do meet the needs of local communities, rather than the commercial requirements of bus operators.

Diolch, Brif Weinidog. Just before I come to my supplementary, I want to welcome Kaia, Reggie and Nia from year 10 of Bedwas High School, who are writing my speech for my short debate on 'Should mobile phones be banned in schools?' They are in the gallery today.

Speaking of Bedwas, I was in Bedwas a week last Friday, where we held a bus surgery with Transport for Wales, Stagecoach, the leader of the council and Wayne David MP. Over 30 residents came to ask questions. One of the things that was clear, and it comes back to Llyr's first question, was that people didn't fully appreciate the amount of public subsidy that goes into bus services. People getting to work rely on public subsidy, and there must be a better way of doing it. As he outlined in his response to me, there is a better way in the bus Bill. But what we'd like to see and what residents would like to see is better connectivity between rail and bus services, including single ticketing, and also connections between rail services and bus services. Currently we're not there. How will the bus Bill enable us to achieve that, and how can I then report back to those people who came to my bus surgery in positive terms?

First of all, I echo Hefin David's welcome to people in the public gallery. Llywydd, one of the things that I like the very most about the Senedd is the fact that on our way into the Chamber we pass through the Neuadd upstairs and people from any part of Wales are just able to have conversations with us. As I was making my way here today, I met a group of schoolchildren from Ystradgynlais who were just making their way into the building in order to come to watch First Minister's questions and to see other aspects of our work here on behalf of the different constituencies in Wales. Welcome to them as well.

The point that Hefin David makes about connectivity and making sure we bring together bus and rail services is why Transport for Wales now features more significantly in our plans for bus reform than it did when this was first discussed on the floor of the Senedd in the previous term. Because through the agency of Transport for Wales, we will be able to bring rail and bus services together, to plan for journeys in which people are able to move from one form of public transport to another in the way that Hefin David suggested.

The bus Bill is a major commitment of the Welsh Government. It will put right a failed experiment of 40 years, in which deregulation and privatisation have fragmented bus services, have failed to provide the public with a return on the investment that the public makes, and we're going to put that right here in Wales.

Finally, question 8, Huw Irranca-Davies.

Llywydd, all our interventions are designed to improve the socioeconomic status of people across Wales. Integrated impact assessments include a socioeconomic duty component, which helps to inform ministerial decision making. Our interventions have regular reviews, which then identify the changes that are needed.

I thank the First Minister for that answer. Now, understandably and rightly, we often have a particular focus in Wales on the issue of poverty, either at an individual level or a community level, and not least, I have to say, when we're faced with a cost-of-living crisis, which has been made far worse by Conservative mismanagement of the economy and, often, a punitive benefits regime. I've said before that our efforts to tackle poverty in Wales are like swimming against the tide of a regressive UK Conservative Government. The sooner we have the administrative devolution of welfare and a progressive Labour UK Government to work with the better. But we also in Wales need to do whatever we can to equal up, by providing lifelong opportunities, regardless of the fortune of birth, so that everyone has the chance to improve the lot, of themselves and their families, and, by doing so, improving the lot of their communities as well. So, how does our Welsh Government narrow those inequalities, tear down the barriers that face people because of race, or gender, or class, and so much more, so that everyone in Wales has a fair shot at life's opportunities, and sometimes more than one shot if they need it?

Llywydd, can I thank Huw Irranca-Davies for that? He summed up so much of what animates this Government and the Labour Party to which he and I belong. Because our ambition in being in politics is to make sure that the very uneven deal that people are offered at birth is put right by the actions that only a Government acting collectively, on behalf of the community, is able to do. That's why, when I answered Laura Anne Jones's question, I wanted to point to the fact that it is young people from the most disadvantaged communities who have made the greatest progress in education in Wales. It's why we are so serious about tackling health inequalities here in Wales. It's why we will create 20,000 new homes for social rent. It's because we want to put our finger on the scales on behalf of the people that Huw Irranca-Davies identified in his question. We live in a country that has become more and more sharply unequal. In 1976 Britain was the most equal country in the whole of Europe. Today we are by some distance, and accelerating, amongst the most unequal. And that affects the chances of all those people that Huw Irranca-Davies referred to.

What can this Government do? Well, as I say, we put our finger on that scale, we put it always on behalf of those people who need the help of Government the most, and know that, here in Wales, they will have a Government that is determined to mobilise the collective effort that we are able to make to provide them with those opportunities that they need now and will need again in the future.

I thank the First Minister.

The business statement and announcement is next. The Trefnydd to make that statement—Lesley Griffiths.

Diolch, Llywydd. There are no changes to this week's Plenary business. Draft business for the next three weeks is set out on the business statement and announcement, which can be found amongst the meeting papers available to Members electronically.

Can I call for two statements, please, Trefnydd? The first is in relation to the school attendance code, which I understand hasn't been updated now for over a decade. That code, of course, determines what is or what isn't an authorised absence in our education system across Wales, and, unfortunately, it doesn't seem to take sufficient account of children with poor mental health. I have a constituent at the moment who has been in touch regarding his son, who has problems with anxiety. In spite of the fact that there's a general practitioner letter confirming that anxiety can often be the reason why this young person cannot attend school, he's being regarded as being unauthorised in terms of absences from school, and is now facing fines from Conwy County Borough Council, which seems to me to be completely and wholly inappropriate. So, I think there is an issue around the code and how it's being interpreted in some parts of Wales, and I would welcome some clarity on that.

Secondly, can I call for a statement in relation to prevention of future death reports in Wales, and whether Wales is actually learning from these? I was absolutely astonished to find out that, last year, some 21 per cent of all prevention of future deaths reports issued by coroners—that were issued across the whole of England and Wales—were in respect of the Betsi Cadwaladr University Health Board. That is an astonishing statistic. And we just had another prevention of future deaths report issued in north Wales last week, in respect of my constituent Jennifer Trigger. In January 2020 she suffered an acute stroke, and due to a misunderstanding caused by the alert system in the Wrexham Maelor Hospital, the time-critical treatment that she was prescribed was not given until 11 hours after it should have been administered. She, unfortunately, passed away, and as a result of the coroner's case into that particular issue, there was a prevention of future deaths report that was issued.

Now, clearly, we have to make sure that our NHS learns when issues like this occur and when reports of this nature are actually published. I cannot accept that it is appropriate that 21 per cent of all of those reports that have been issued have been in respect of one single health board, and that happens to be the health board that serves my constituents and yours, indeed, as well, Trefnydd. So, can we have a statement about what action is being taken, given that the Betsi Cadwaladr University Health Board is in special measures? And what is going to be done to make sure that there's learning across the wider NHS? Thank you.

Thank you. Well, I certainly agree with you that lessons, absolutely, have to be learnt, and I am very sorry to hear about your constituent's death. I will certainly ask the Minister for Health and Social Services to come forward with a written statement in response to your request.

Regarding the school attendance code, obviously, guidance is given to each local authority. You do mention a very specific case, and I would suggest you write to the Minister for Education and the Welsh Language.

Trefnydd, I'd like to request a statement, please, from the Minister for Climate Change regarding the situation that arose quite suddenly yesterday in Hirwaun, regarding reinforced aerated autoclaved concrete being found to be affecting 40 Trivallis properties, plus four privately owned properties. As you'll be well aware, like the situation across Wales, there's a huge strain in terms of trying to find alternative accommodation. There are almost 5,000 households currently registered with HomefinderRCT. So, trying to find alternative accommodation is a huge challenge. So, can I ask what support is being provided? And further, is it possible that other housing associations may also find further properties affected? I'd like to know what correspondence has been with housing associations and what assurances the Minister can provide, because, obviously, this is a hugely concerning situation, not just in Hirwaun, but I think it has implications for other parts of Wales as well.

Thank you. Well, the Minister's officials were contacted yesterday afternoon by the chief executive of Trivallis housing association, and the Minister has certainly welcomed the swift action taken by them to ensure the safety of their residents, and we certainly send sympathy to everyone affected. As you say, this is obviously a very worrying time for them. The Minister for Climate Change's officials will continue to work closely with Trivallis and partners as the situation develops. The issue with RAAC in these properties has been identified because of the survey work that's been commissioned to ensure that we do have a complete picture of RAAC across all our social housing stock. 

I'm asking for two statements. The first is on Welsh Government progress in promoting the real living wage. Far too many people in Wales work on exploitative contracts not paying the real living wage and not giving them enough hours guaranteed each week. What has the Welsh Government done to ensure that those being paid directly by the Welsh Government either via a contractor or via organisations that are Welsh Government funded, such as health boards, pay the real living wage? 

The second statement I'm asking for is on what action the Welsh Government is taking to improve productivity in the Welsh economy. Whilst an increase in teacher productivity would just mean larger classes, which I don't think we want, productivity gains are available in other areas. What action is being carried out to improve productivity in our hospitals? 

Thank you. Well, we're very clear that paying the real living wage benefits employers as well as employees, and a comprehensive report by Cardiff University has shown that 94 per cent of real living wage accredited employers report having benefited from their accreditation. I think from a business and an economic point of view, paying the real living wage offers several benefits that contribute to productivity and overall well-being, and paying the real living wage we know boosts staff motivation, commitment, engagement and, of course, it reduces stress that workers may have about making ends meet. I think it also impacts on recruitment, very much so, and of course retention. It reduces the cost of having that churn in a workforce. Research from the Living Wage Foundation shows how productivity levels can rise as a result, leading to better overall performance.

Trefnydd, I would like to request an urgent statement from the Minister for health regarding the gender identity development service. I won't rehearse the cost review of the issues with replacing the Tavistock services, including the inordinate delays for regional services. What concerns me is WPATH leaks. A few days ago, a large dump of files from the World Professional Association for Transgender Health, or WPATH for short, cast serious doubt on the claims that the guidance the organisation provides is evidence based and safe. A leaked document shows clinicians discussing giving irreversible treatment to patients who are very unlikely to be able to provide informed consent, including the very young and those with serious mental health disorders. Some of the document's conversations suggest that the clinicians are unsure of the long-term effects of treatments they are providing. The document suggested that some WPATH members dismiss concerns about long-term patient outcomes, despite being aware of the potentially debilitating side effects of hormones and other treatments. This matters because the WPATH guidance forms the basis for our GIDS, or gender identity development service, in Wales. WPATH standards of care version 7 is recommended by Health Education and Improvement Wales as CPD for GPs in Wales. CPD is continuing personal development. I therefore call for an urgent statement from Welsh Government to address concerns and to reassure the public that gender identity services are safe and evidence based. Diolch yn fawr.

Thank you. It is a matter for each health board as to what services they do provide for their local population, and, of course, Welsh Government wouldn't comment on a leaked document.

I'd like to reiterate a request made earlier. Can I ask for a statement from the health Minister on preventable deaths in the health service, as reported in coroners' section 28 reports? They're there, of course, as reports to help prevent future deaths, and they clearly require urgent action by health boards, but, despite that statutory duty, there are worrying trends in north Wales. Now, I'll give you some statistics. In 2021-22 Betsi Cadwaladr accounted for 41 per cent of all preventable death coroner reports in Wales. A year later, 2021-22, that was up to 50 per cent. Now, in the last nine months, Betsi Cadwaladr health board accounts for 80 per cent of all of these preventable death reports in Wales. That's 21 out of a total of 25. That, to me, points to a very serious ongoing problem in the north, and we need to hear as a Senedd from the health Minister, working with Betsi Cadwaladr, what the plan is to make sure that the health board is responding appropriately to what is a very worrying trend, I have to say.

As I said in my answer to Darren Millar, I will ask the Minister for Health and Social Services to bring forward a statement. 

Can I refer Members to my declaration of interests on the record? Minister, you'll be aware that workers in the Defence Electronics and Components Agency in my constituency have been on strike now for six months. Working people do not want to be on strike. These workers are proud of their high-skilled jobs and they want to return to work. For this to happen, we need a resolution everyone can support, or the employer to get back around the table and listen to working people. Frustratingly, Minister, this resolution is yet to be found between the employer and the workers. Can I ask for a statement from the Welsh Government about how the Welsh Government can encourage employers to engage with workers and trade unions in a meaningful way? Diolch.

Thank you. I think you're quite right, nobody wants to be on strike, and it is really important that the employer in this case, the Ministry of Defence, does get around the table with the workforce. I think the majority are probably represented by Unite, and you know that the Welsh Government is absolutely an advocate for social partnership.

I'd like to request a statement from you about the Tan Lan embankment viability study in the Conwy valley. You will recall that the latest breach was during Storm Ciara in February 2020. Now, Natural Resources Wales have decided to walk away from this Tan Lan embankment, which protects a number of properties, a caravan site and various other farms. Now, whilst NRW quoted £150,000 for repair works, local farmers have actually done this for £15,000. Now, four years on, NRW is still refusing to compensate the farmers, and I held a meeting recently with residents, farmers and landowners, and they are furious. We really are struggling, so I would like a statement on NRW's ability—whether they are, in fact, able to do so—just to walk away from a natural flood defence scheme and tell residents, 'From now on, you'll have to pick up the cost for this.' Diolch.

I'm not aware of the situation referred to. It may be best to write to the Minister for Climate Change directly. 

Trefnydd, last week, the residents of Aberfan were told that their community centre was facing closure. As you'll know, that building is more than bricks and mortar. It was built by the community after the disaster in 1966 that claimed the lives of 116 of its children and 28 adults. The book of remembrance for the dead was kept at the centre after Bethania chapel closed. It is a place that is testament to the resilience of a grief-stricken community, and the news that it might close its doors was met with anger and confusion. Now, 24 hours later, it seemed that it was only that the trust that owned the centre was stepping away. There was even a suggestion that the signs put up announcing its imminent closure were fakes, and there were some tasteless headlines saying that residents had been duped. This community is still grieving for its lost children. No matter how many years might have passed, it was not the right word to use. Now, I'm sure, Trefnydd, that you'll agree that this isn't a way to treat Aberfan. I realise local decisions like this aren't something the Government can get involved in, but I know residents would appreciate a statement heard in the Senedd about the importance of that community centre and how it stands not only as a witness to that valley's past, but also as a cornerstone of that community's future. Any statement that the Government could make would be a solace.

Thank you, and I certainly share your concern. I remember, when I was the Minister with responsibility for regeneration, visiting Aberfan to talk about what we could do—I think it was approaching the fiftieth anniversary, if I remember rightly—and to see what help we could give. And it may be advisable for, perhaps, the trust—I'm not aware of the situation that you describe—to write to the Minister with responsibility for regeneration to see if there is anything more that we could assist with.

Minister, can I ask for a statement, please, from the Minister for Health and Social Services on access to the drug Fampyra, also known as Fampridine. Fampyra is a drug used by MS patients to improve their quality of life, and it was approved by the Welsh Government as an NHS-funded treatment in Wales in December 2019. Indeed, Wales was the first country in the UK to approve the routine use of the drug. It is therefore disappointing that, some four years on, this drug is not available to patients in the Aneurin Bevan University Health Board area. I met with a constituent on Friday who has been waiting for the health board to put in place the arrangements to offer this drug, which could have a significant impact on her daily life. I understand the health board has gone back to the Welsh Government to approve additional investment to ensure the drug can be rolled out, but, at this stage, it's still unclear as to when the patients in the health board area will have access to this potentially life-improving medication. So, a statement from the Minister for Health and Social Services would be very much appreciated on this.

Thank you very much. I am aware that a business case for the use of this drug was presented to the executive board last month, and the aim is to commence patient assessments within the next two months—so, by next month.

I would like to request a statement, business Minister, please, from the Deputy Minister for sport. In the past day or so, UK Labour leader, Sir Keir Starmer, has announced that he supports a ban on biological men competing against women in sport. This, of course, makes complete sense to those of us who believe in fairness, safety and equality, yet, over the past few years, this Welsh Government has been very reluctant to stand up for fairness and safety in women’s sports, instead choosing to push biological falsehoods and gender ideology, and using women’s rights, sports and spaces as a sacrificial lamb. Now the leader of your Labour Party has said this, I would like the Deputy Minister to come to the Chamber to clarify the Welsh Government's position on whether it too now believes that Welsh women's sport should be protected from biological men and that, in Keir Starmer's words, common sense needs to prevail in terms of safety and integrity in sport. Thank you.

Well, Keir Starmer isn't a representative here, and you will have heard the Deputy Minister for Arts, Sport and Tourism on this subject before. Nothing has changed.

Trefnydd, I'd like an updated oral statement, please, on autism diagnosis. Referral to assessment and diagnostic services is made through several routes. For pre-school children, it can be done via the health service, or, for children attending school, it's done via the school-age assessment pathway. Therefore, it would be good to see a statement with input from both Ministers. Now, I have numerous cases of children waiting lengthy times for diagnosis. One example is a boy who started on the journey two years ago when he was seven years old, and he's been told that there is at least a further two years to wait, and, because of his needs for diagnosis through the medium of Welsh, the waiting is likely to be far longer. Another boy has also been on the waiting list for two years and has been told that there's at least a further 36-month wait. These children will go through three key stages of education before getting the vital diagnosis. It's simply not good enough. So, I'd like an update, please, from either the education or health Minister on what action the Government is taking to get to grips with this awful waiting list.

Thank you, and I think you raise a very important point. Clearly, the Welsh Government has done some significant work, both, I think, in funding and also bringing forward legislation and other ways of helping reduce the waiting list. I'm not sure if it would be the Minister for Health and Social Services or the Minister for education, but I will certainly ask either of them to update Members of the Senedd.

Trefnydd, I'm back again this week asking for another urgent statement on the workplace recycling scheme that's being implemented by the Welsh Government. I've met with countless businesses and waste operators right across Wales who say to me that the scheme in its current form is unworkable and will drive many small businesses to close because the scheme is unworkable, they don't have the room for the bins, and they don't have the additional money in their bank to actually pay for the costs of all the additional bins. We do need an urgent statement on this before it's implemented on 6 April because we don't want to see the unintended consequence of this scheme coming to fruition without proper due diligence being put in place. So, I'd like that urgent statement. If the Government are not willing to bring that statement forward, I'll have to use other parliamentary means to get the Minister to this Chamber, because I do not want to see any businesses close unnecessary because the scheme has been ill-thought-out by the Government.

They can't afford six bins?

We'll I don't think it's been ill-thought-out—

Why don't you go and speak to them, Mike, like the farmers you call over?

The Trefnydd is responding to the request from the Member. The Trefnydd.

I certainly don't think it's been ill-thought-out. The Minister has done a significant amount of work with stakeholders ahead of this coming in, and there won't be time for another statement before the date you suggest.

May I ask for a statement from the health Minister in relation to the contaminated blood scandal? As chair of the cross-party group on contaminated blood, I do appreciate the opportunity to have worked with the Government in calling for action from the UK Government. I am aware and appreciate that the Deputy Minister for Social Services wrote to the Paymaster General a few weeks ago asking for the process of establishing a body to pay compensation to be accelerated, but concerns have been raised once again this week that the Government is trying to kick the can down a road. The Leader of the House of Commons said last week that meetings were being arranged in order to gather further evidence. But the truth of the matter is that intensive consultation has happened over a lengthy period of time to bring us to this point. Some 80 victims have lost their lives since the recommendations on compensation were made. More are losing their lives every week, and we must see urgent action. So, I would appreciate a statement from the Minister outlining how the Welsh Government will take further action and work with us as a cross-party group to urge the UK Government to ensure that this money is paid.

Thank you. I am aware the Deputy Minister for Social Services has written to the UK Government. I'm not aware she's had a response as yet, but I know she's very keen to work with the cross-party group, and I'm sure, once she's had further information, she'll be able to update you.

Thank you, Trefnydd.

The next item will be the statement by the Minister for Social Justice on the Senedd Cymru (Electoral Candidate Lists) Bill. I call on the Minister to make the statement—Jane Hutt.

Diolch, Llywydd. The Senedd has been transformed over the past quarter century. It has become a Parliament in the true sense of the word, assuming primary law-making powers and powers over taxation, among other new responsibilities. An effective parliament is the cornerstone of a thriving democracy. As our national Parliament, the Senedd plays a key role in representing the people of Wales, in making legislation, in scrutinising the Welsh Government, and in debating the issues that matter to people across Wales. Given the responsibilities the Senedd has acquired over time, it is more important than ever that the Senedd is an effective Parliament that represents the people it serves. A factor that constrains the Senedd's ability to represent the people of Wales effectively is that it does not reflect the make-up of the Welsh population in terms of gender. This limits the Senedd's ability to draw on the range of lived experiences present within society, and it weakens the Senedd's claim to represent the whole population. The Special Purpose Committee on Senedd Reform identified this as an area for improvement. It recognised that women are the under-represented majority in this Senedd, and recommended in its report that the Senedd should be elected with integrated statutory gender quotas. The special purpose committee's report was endorsed by this Senedd, and the Government committed to bringing forward this legislation. Yesterday, I laid the Senedd Cymru (Electoral Candidate Lists) Bill before the Senedd. This is the second Bill within a package of reforms whose purpose is to make the Senedd a more effective legislature that is better able to serve the people of Wales. It takes a further step on the Senedd reform journey and complements the Senedd Cymru (Members and Elections) Bill introduced by the Counsel General, now at Stage 3 proceedings.

Llywydd, as the Member in charge, I recognise and respect your own determination in relation to competence. You will know that, based on all the information available to me, I am of the view that the Bill is within the legislative competence of the Senedd. With such a difference in views, I believe that a final decision on whether the Bill should proceed can only rest with the body where this Bill began: the Senedd itself. The only way to achieve this is to introduce this Bill and for it to proceed to Stage 1 scrutiny. The Senedd committee will then be able to come to a view on the question of competence. The committee's view will form a central part of our consideration of the next steps on the Bill.

Llywydd, the purpose of this Bill is to strengthen the Senedd by seeking to ensure that it broadly reflects the gender make-up of the population it serves, in particular with regard to the representation of women. In 2003, Wales became the first country in the world to elect women to half of its Parliament's seats. That result has not been repeated at Senedd general elections in the 20 years that have passed since then. Today, women make up 51 per cent of the population of Wales but only take up 43 per cent of the Senedd's seats. Women are still under-represented in the Senedd, and they have been for many years. Evidence from around the world shows that increasing the number of women legislators can lead to a more effective legislature and, therefore, has positive impacts on the legitimacy of the legislature and on democracy more widely.

Increasing the representation of women is not only about improving representation for women; it is about improving representation for everyone. Evidence shows that one of the main barriers to the election of women is the fact that some political parties have not put forward women candidates in sufficient numbers. This trend applies also in Wales. At the most recent Senedd election, in 2021, less than a third of the 470 candidates put forward by political parties in Wales were women—only 31 per cent. This Bill aims to redress this imbalance so that future Seneddau will be more effective. Gender quotas for elections are commonplace around the world and are now used in more than 130 countries. Evidence from countries such as Spain, Belgium and Ireland shows that gender quotas can be an effective means of increasing the number of women elected to parliaments. The number of women in the parliaments of 11 EU countries that used gender quotas increased almost three times faster than in EU countries without quotas.

Llywydd, this Bill introduces requirements that are designed to maximise the chances of delivering a Senedd that is broadly reflective of the gender make-up of Wales. The Bill will require political parties putting forward more than one candidate in a constituency to ensure that women make up at least half of the list. The Bill also introduces requirements relating to the placement of women on party lists, to secure a proportional share of more winnable list positions for women. Parties will need to place a woman at the top of at least half of their constituency candidate lists across Wales. A candidate on a list who is not a woman must be followed by a woman. Introducing a minimum 50 per cent threshold for women will lead to an increase in women candidates at Senedd elections, and the additional step of introducing placement criteria increases the likelihood that a greater proportion of elected candidates are women.

To ensure the candidate list requirements can be implemented effectively, the Bill provides for a system of enforcement to be implemented through secondary legislation, and the new role of the national nominations compliance officer will be created to support enforcement, alongside the constituency returning officers.

Llywydd, from the expert panel's report, 'A Parliament that works for Wales', through to the special purpose committee report and its recommendations that were supported by a majority in this Senedd, the result of this legislation would be a Senedd that can draw on a broader range of lived experiences, a more representative Senedd that is better placed to engage with the diverse communities that we represent, and, crucially, a more effective Senedd that will facilitate better scrutiny and decision making as a result.

This Bill, together with the Senedd Cymru (Members and Elections) Bill, takes forward most of the special purpose committee’s recommendations. Additionally, the Welsh Government has committed to taking forward the special purpose committee’s recommendations relating to Senedd candidate diversity information and diversity and inclusion strategies. We will look to publish guidance to encourage political parties, as important gatekeepers of political representation, to publish diversity and inclusion strategies for Welsh elections. The work will complement our wider work to create a more equal, more inclusive Wales—work exemplified in the 'Anti-racist Wales Action Plan', the LGBTQ+ action plan, and the disability rights taskforce.

Llywydd, this Bill is about delivering a more effective Senedd, and I'm hopeful that the reforms in this Bill will give the diverse women of Wales, across the political spectrum, the confidence to put their names forward to successfully stand as candidates in Senedd elections and, in turn, improve the work of this Senedd. Women have so much to offer that will benefit everyone in Wales.

I'd like to thank all stakeholders who've worked with us on this journey to introducing groundbreaking legislation that we are confident will make a lasting difference to this Senedd and for the people of Wales. I'm pleased to be introducing the Senedd Cymru (Electoral Candidate Lists) Bill a few days after International Women’s Day, and I look forward to working with Members and Senedd committees to secure the Bill’s passage onto the statute book. Diolch yn fawr.

Can I thank the Minister for the advance copy of today's statement and, indeed, the briefing that she held for me, with her officials, at the tail end of last week?

I have to say, I'm very concerned that this Bill is being discussed in the Senedd today, and the reason I have that concern is because, as we all know in this Senedd, the Llywydd has written to every Member of the Senedd to say that, in her view, and the view of the legal advice that she has received, which is consistent with the advice that was given to the Special Purpose Committee on Senedd Reform, of which I was a Member, this particular piece of legislation is not within the competence of the Senedd. And I think—and I think the people of Wales will think—that it is extraordinary that this Senedd is spending time, energy and resources focusing on a piece of legislation that it does not have the competence to be able to deliver, rather than focusing on the everyday concerns of the people of Wales, such as the NHS, our school system, our economy, our transport system et cetera. So, I think that it is a concern and, obviously, whilst the Welsh Government has the prerogative of being able to introduce a piece of legislation in this way, I expect that it ought to be the subject of detailed scrutiny, through the Senedd scrutiny process, with our committee process. However, as you will know, Minister, the Government, with the support of Plaid Cymru—I don't know why—has decided that a shortened period of scrutiny is appropriate for this Bill, a shorter than usual period of scrutiny. You're going to chop down the opportunity for the committee to undertake its important work on this Bill, in spite of the huge question marks over the competency of this Senedd to be able to legislate in the area. And the result of that will be that, instead of there being 12 weeks for the committee to be able to consider Stage 1 prior to reporting, it will have just nine weeks. That's less time to engage with stakeholders, less time to engage with the public, over what I believe is a very important Bill. In addition to that, there'll be less time than usual to table amendments both at Stage 2 and Stage 3. So, an alternative opportunity to timetable for this Bill was put forward at the Business Committee this morning, and yet it was rejected by your party. I'd be grateful to have a decent explanation as to why you feel that that is appropriate, given the magnitude of this Bill and its importance to this Senedd. It's ironic, isn't it, that a package of reforms, Senedd reforms, that are supposed to improve scrutiny in this place, we're being denied to scrutinise—the opportunity to do that scrutiny process justice.

Now, if I can turn to where we agree with the Government, we agree with the Government that all political parties in Wales need to do more to address the lack of diversity in this Senedd and, indeed, amongst our candidates that are put forward for election to this Senedd. There's no question about that. My party, in particular, has not been very good at getting the gender balance right. We've done well on other aspects of diversity and, obviously, we were delighted to welcome the first woman of colour to this Senedd on our benches. Indeed, we've done rather well without the sort of positive discrimination that is advocated by the Labour Party. I can see the First Minister looking at our benches at the moment. 

I'm looking for a woman. 

Yes, I can see that you're looking for a woman. I'm looking for other aspects of diversity that are missing from your benches, First Minister, which I'm sure you will accept you need to do better at in terms of some ethnic minority groups that are under-represented in this Senedd, age groups that are under-represented, disability is under-represented, certain faith groups are under-represented in this Senedd—there are all sorts of aspects of diversity that are under-represented in this Senedd that I and my party want to do better at. 

What we disagree with is pitting gender and giving gender a greater focus and priority than all of these other aspects of diversity, and we certainly do not agree that there ought to be any statutory requirements or quotas as far as diversity is concerned. We believe that people should be elected to this Senedd and should be candidates for election to this Senedd on the basis of merit—and I can hear people rehearsing that line—on the basis of merit, not because of the colour of their skin, not because of the fact that they self-identify to be a man or a woman, not because of their sexual orientation or anything else, but because people want to elect them. And we believe that anybody should have the opportunity to be elected. So, that's why we will be opposing this Bill and the time wasting that I believe it's doing in this Senedd, because it's a reserved matter to the UK Parliament.  

In terms of the purpose of the Bill, it quite clearly is to promote opportunities for women. It sits firmly within the equalities section of law, which is reserved to the UK Parliament, and it doesn't actually deliver on the promise that was made by the former leader of Plaid Cymru and the First Minister when they said very clearly that they will introduce mandatory zipping on lists. There's no mandatory zipping required on these particular lists according to the Bill that's in front of us today, because, as you will know, Minister, the Bill provides for lists to be entirely made up of women but not entirely made up of men. There's no equality there. There's no requirement for it to be zipped in a particular way. The one thing that it does prevent is two men appearing in succession on a list. That's the only thing it prevents. It doesn't introduce any kind of zipping, which is against the principle that was set out by the First Minister in the joint statement with the leader of Plaid Cymru back in May 2022, and, indeed, just last year, when the First Minister was wanting to make progress on the whole issue of Senedd reform. The Bill also does not even define what a woman actually is, and I would ask you, Minister—perhaps you can tell us what a woman is, because, as far as I can see, it is allowing people to self-identify whether they consider themselves to be a woman or not. There’s no sanction on the face of the Bill for those who claim to be a woman who clearly are not, for example, which also seems to be extraordinary.

So, it amounts to self-ID via the back door. We don’t have the competence to be able to deliver. You’re curtailing the scrutiny, even though you say you’re trying to improve the scrutiny processes of the Senedd. You’ve put in here no requirement for—and I believe that we should have this requirement, by the way—. There’s no statutory requirement for diversity strategies on political parties. I’d welcome that. I think that’s a good, positive thing you could have put into the Bill, but didn’t bother with, in spite of the fact that that was also a recommendation from the Special Purpose Committee on Senedd Reform. So, this is all over the place. I don’t think that it should see the time of day. I would question the Welsh Government’s rationale for bringing it forward.

And one final question if I may—and thank you for giving me the opportunity to scrutinise this, Llywydd—and that is on the subject of costs. I’ve looked through the explanatory memorandum and it suggests minimal costs will be associated with this, but we all know that certainly won’t be the case, because there’ll be significant legal challenges if this Bill goes forward, not least, probably, in the Supreme Court, and we all know how expensive those things are. So, can you tell us whether there’s an estimate of the costs, whether you’ve made any provision as a Welsh Government for those sorts of costs? And can you also tell us what the costs of bringing this forward today have been so far, in terms of the costs of legal advice and other work that has been undertaken by the Welsh Government around the legislative competence? Because when I look in the explanatory memorandum, it is very telling. There’s no information on legislative competence other than a single sentence—a single sentence—on an otherwise completely blank page. And given that that’s the biggest question mark that people have over this Bill, you would have thought that you’d set out a little bit more information than a single sentence saying that, in your view, it’s in competence.

Diolch yn fawr, Darren Millar. Well, I'm very pleased you say that it is a very important Bill, because it is. It's a groundbreaking piece of legislation. And yesterday, when I published this Bill, there was much welcome that came from across Wales, and I think this is one of the interesting things, that I’m not sure whether you recognise the extent of engagement. I turn to the Chair of the special purpose committee here, but before that to Dawn Bowden, and the Committee on Senedd Electoral Reform. Back in April 2022, the Women’s Equality Network for Wales, representing organisations across the whole of Wales, from Merched y Wawr to women’s institutes to Women’s Aid groups, local authorities, the Wales Trades Union Congress, all saying that they welcome the joint statement by Welsh Government and Plaid Cymru that legally binding quotas were to be introduced for Senedd elections.

And I think it’s great that you’ve made those points about we do need more Senedd Members who are women from under-represented groups. We need more black, Asian and minority ethnic women—all parties recognise that; we recognise that—LGBTQ+ women, disabled women, women with other protected characteristics, and also, as WEN Wales has said in welcoming the Bill yesterday, the Diverse5050 campaign. Now, let's recognise that’s a joint campaign, not just with WEN Wales, but with the Electoral Reform Society, Race Council Cymru, EYST—the ethnic youth support team—calling for gender balance of elected Members at both national and local level.

So, we are here debating a Bill that has been endorsed, and indeed the evidence provided for a number of years, in terms of our recognition of the need for Senedd reform. Because it does go back to the fact—. And there are women in this Senedd here—more in number, I would say, on this side of the Senedd than over there, but we recognise we have also got to address other diversity issues. But more women in the Senedd better reflects the gender make-up of Wales: good for politics, good for representation, good for policy making. And that’s what comes through in terms of a recognition of the importance of this Bill today.

I have commented on the competence issues, and very respectfully, in my oral statement today, Llywydd. But we are taking forward the will of the Senedd, which endorses the recommendations of the special purpose committee, and I've made that statement. I've said that, in my view, the provisions of the Bill would be within the Senedd's legislative competence.

And I think that what is important is that we look at the purpose of the Bill. You've commented on the purpose of the Bill, Darren. The purpose of the Bill is to establish a more effective Senedd, and, as such, the Bill is within the Senedd's competence. And I think that point about purpose is crucial to this. Because, if you look at the test laid down in the Government of Wales Act 2006, and I'll quote:

'The question whether a provision of an Act of the Senedd relates to a reserved matter is determined by reference to the purpose of the provision, having regard (among other things) to its effect in all the circumstances. '

That's the test. That's the test about competence. The purpose of this Bill is to establish a more effective Senedd. Surely we can unite on that goal, to deliver a more effective Senedd? 

I will comment on the point about the timetable, because it is important that, in terms of the special purpose committee's report, 'Reforming our Senedd: A stronger voice for the people of Wales', it did set out an ambitious timetable to implement Senedd reform in time for our next scheduled Senedd elections in 2026. And the Trefnydd did explain—and I know this—in her letter to the Business Committee, which you'll be aware of, of course, Darren, that the timetable proposed by the Welsh Government is fundamental to maintaining a pathway to implementing the measures in time for the 2026 Senedd elections. So, we are working to ensure that the measures are in place ahead of that election.

And it is part of the package of Senedd reform, along with the Senedd Cymru (Members and Elections) Bill. Last week, we debated that, we took that through, and there is that important point that this is part of that package of Senedd reform. A delay of even a month to the passage of the Bill—. And this is important for all the stakeholders and, indeed, the committee, obviously, the Senedd reform committee, to scrutinise the Bill. A delay of even a month to the passage of the Bill would have implications for that implementation work, for electoral administrators and political parties to have time to prepare for the election after the relevant legislation is made. I think it does go back to the fact that this is a journey that we've been on—an extensive journey—which has involved all those stakeholders that I have referred to. And it is about civic society; it is about the opportunity that we have to deliver that more representative and effective legislature for Wales, and I think we have a commitment to do that.

I just want to pick up some of your more technical points—I'm sure we'll discuss this in the Senedd reform committee. The rules in this Bill don't prevent a zipping approach. A list that alternates between candidates who are women and candidates who are not women will be fully compliant with the vertical rules, as long as at least half the candidates are women. And, by requiring that a woman follows any candidate who is not a woman on a list, the rules make sure that women are, at the very least, placed in every other place on a list. But should a list have a woman directly after another woman on a list, that would be a compliant list. Now, we will look at all these issues as we move forward into the scrutiny.

I think it is really important that you raise these issues about diversity, and the ways in which we can take this forward, because this is about—.The special purpose committee looked at this very carefully—whether we'll hear from the Chair of that committee. They looked, on a cross-party basis—and I think you were involved in some of those discussions—at diversity quotas, for possible implementation sometime in the future. But, in the meantime, the steps that we can take, in parallel with gender quotas, I think, are important.

You know that I've said in my oral statement that we're encouraging political parties to publish diversity and inclusion strategies for Welsh elections. So, I'm taking it, from what you're saying, Darren, that you will—the Welsh Conservatives will—publish your diversity and inclusion strategies. I know that all of the organisations—the Electoral Reform Society and WEN Wales—will want to encourage, want to support. They've been working with political parties across the Chamber. We'll need to do that, in terms of preparing, to ensure that we have greater transparency around diversity information for Senedd candidates. That's also ongoing, and we're exploring how we may be able to encourage and support political parties to do more in this area.

Now, I think what is most important is that women are the under-represented majority in this Senedd—certainly, I would have to say, within the Welsh Conservative group—so, our focus for now—[Interruption.] So, our focus for now is on gender quotas. I recall very fondly, actually, my memories of talking to—[Interruption.]

I'd like to hear the Minister now, if you can show a bit of silence.

I'll finish on this point, because I will focus on the very important—[Interruption.]

Can we allow the Minister to continue?

Diolch yn fawr, Llywydd. This is why we need a gender-balanced Senedd. 

Thank you. Think about the language you use, even when the microphone is not on. The Minister to continue, please.

I was going to say that I do miss the informed engagement that I had with some of your former colleagues. I'm delighted that the Welsh Conservative women Members have come to our women's caucus meetings, and, in fact, your former colleagues—Welsh Conservative colleagues. I recall Suzy Davies, who actually is involved, I believe, as a trustee of WEN Wales, really talking and engaging with us. The women's caucus, I think, is really important.

Only two weeks ago, I was in Ireland hearing about the beneficial impact of gender quotas—as I've said, 130 countries across the world. I'm glad that you see that this is an important Bill, and that you do agree with the Government that we need more diversity. This Bill will help us move for more diversity, but it will move for representation—for gender representation—for the most under-represented people in Wales in this Chamber. I very much look forward to this scrutiny and the engagement that we'll have, but please listen to the people outside this Chamber as well, who have helped take us on this journey. Diolch yn fawr.

Thank you, Minister, for the statement today. It's been a long time coming, and I'm pleased to see this important Bill starting its journey through the Senedd today. It is timely that we are discussing the Bill today, following the successful completion of Stage 2 of the Senedd Cymru (Members and Elections) Bill last week, given that the provisions of the two Bills complement each other and are a core part of the agreed package of Senedd reform measures agreed by two thirds of the Members of the Senedd here, and also agreed by the democratic structures of Plaid Cymru and the Labour Party.

Like other aspects of the package, it does not fulfil all of our aspirations at once, of course, but does the Minister agree that the important thing in the case of this Bill, like the first Bill, is to have the reforms in place by 2026? I was pleased to hear the Government's commitment to work with Members to ensure that the Bill does reach the statute book, and I am looking forward to starting the scrutiny work tomorrow in the Reform Bill Committee, when the Minister and her officials appear before us, as there is no time to waste.

The central aim driving everything is the creation of a more effective Senedd on behalf of, and for, the people of Wales. This is another aspect, therefore, of expanding the representation and effectiveness of the Senedd, in exactly the same way as expanding the number of Members and introducing an electoral system where all Members are elected entirely through proportional representation. This will make the Senedd more representative of the people and the nation that it aims to represent, and will make the institution more effective.

A Senedd where women, who are the majority of the Welsh population according to the 2021 census, remain a minority adversely affects the Senedd's ability to operate effectively, and its ability to fully reflect the country that it tries to represent. It would surely hinder the achievement of the central aim forming the basis for Senedd reform, namely to create a more purposeful and powerful institution to carry out the democratic will of the people of Wales, if we were to recreate on a wider scale, in a Senedd of 96 Members, the failure that there has been to create a Senedd that reflects the population in every Senedd of 60 Members, other than during the period between 2003 and 2007.

It is clear, as the Minister said, that we have a serious problem when only 31 per cent of candidates in the 2021 Senedd election were women. And we have heard that legislatures that are more or less balanced in terms of gender, as well as reflecting and representing the population better, are more effective in terms of the range of policy expertise, in terms of integrity in public life and in terms of developing different leadership styles. It's also clear that this kind of mechanism raises the bar for everyone, and improves the quality of our politics for everyone. It is democracy that benefits. It's clear that, if we want to guarantee that the new Senedd remains true to that commitment, all of the political parties will need to play a part in that, and this Bill does provide a clear and practical statutory mechanism to try to ensure that.

We have already heard a lot of noise from the Conservatives—and we'll hear more, I'm sure—about what the Bill does not do. But, what about focusing on what it does do? It introduces a pragmatic mechanism that will operate within the parliamentary, electoral and democratic systems that we are familiar with, and that the first Bill develops further, the system of regional lists, the process of nominating candidates, and so forth. 

As well as being the first nation in Britain to get rid of the old-fashioned first-past-the-post system at national level, in exchange for a system of proportional representation, Wales will also be the first country in Britain to introduce gender quotas at the parliamentary level. This is a radical and innovative development, with our Senedd leading the way, and it's a sign of the ambitious, independent country that we are working towards creating, where Members of the national legislature reflect the population.

And, of course, this is only a starting point. And for those who do not yet share our ambition regarding the constitutional future of Wales, it is a sign of our seriousness in creating a Senedd that is properly mature and effective, a place where we can also be mature about a difference of opinion on the issue of competence, which does not in any way—as the Llywydd’s own letter to the Reform Bill Committee acknowledges—prevent the Senedd from doing everything in its power to put this Bill on the statute books, in place by 2026, and that is what we will be working constructively to try to do. Because this is not for our sake, those of us who are here now, but for the people of Wales and their Senedd.

Diolch yn fawr, Heledd Fychan. This is an exciting afternoon; this is a really important afternoon for us in our Senedd. The electoral candidate lists Bill is, as you said, a part of that package of reforms to deliver our commitment to make the Senedd a more effective legislature for and on behalf of the people of Wales. I see it very much in the spirit of the well-being of future generations, of our young people and what they foresee as their opportunities to participate and succeed and take on from the roles that we have played. And, of course, the work has been done—so much of the work has been done. And I think this is the point, that the scrutiny that now needs to happen is the scrutiny of the Bill, but the evidence that we've got that has led, through the special purpose committee, to this Bill is extensive. I'll just reflect on that.

The majority of Senedd Members in July 2022 voted for this. We voted for this, the whole package of Senedd reform. We voted here in this Senedd and it does reflect that commitment in the co-operation agreement between the Welsh Government and Plaid Cymru. I was a Member, and I can't remember how many of us, the men and women who are here today, together, were part of 2003, that second—. I know that Elin Jones, the Llywydd, was, because we're one of the four remaining class of 1999. But, in 2003, it was extraordinary that we had 50 per cent women. All over the world, people were asking, 'Where is this place, Wales? How did you get 50 per cent? How did you manage it?' Well, if you look at the figures, we managed it mainly because some political parties took positive action. Indeed, the Labour Party having taken positive action from day 1 back in 1998, 1999 through our twinning system. We've always outnumbered the men, haven't we, in our Labour group? Quite effectively. And, indeed, in the Cabinet as well. This is about positive action actually turning into legislation that actually means that everyone can benefit from that.

I just want to say that, in terms of the ways in which we want to take this forward and the purpose—. The crucial point is the purpose in relation to competence. A more gender-balanced legislature is shown to strengthen its legitimacy—it's crucial—the legitimacy of us representing the people of Wales. Growth in the number of women parliamentarians, evidence shows, can revitalise democracy, and also ensure that interest in politics among women voters increases, when there are more women candidates.

I was in Ireland a couple of weeks ago. When they actually started introducing quotas, from a very, very low base, in Ireland, they had 90 per cent more women candidates in the election, and then over 40 per cent more were elected. I met with some businesswomen, women from academia—not political women—at a St David's Day event. They were striving, through business, commerce, the public sector, the third sector, to deliver for the people of the Republic, for the people of Ireland, but particularly to get women's interests at the forefront. And they said, 'We do need to have women in the Dáil, we need to have that representation'. Evidence from Ireland, Europe, and across the world shows that gender quotas can be effective in bringing, as I said, more women into politics.

I'm grateful for your points. We will then move forward in terms of the scrutiny. Can I just also say that this is about role models? We have young people here in the Chamber—I'm not sure how many are here with us. And we had a lot of women here last week, questioning the Counsel General about the appalling way in which the 1950s women were treated, about losing their pensions. Delyth Jewell asked a question of the Counsel General. The Chamber was packed with women from the 1950s and 1960s who've lost out on their pension—all generations of women are interested in this point. And how thrilled they were to hear the Counsel General speak up on their behalf. I've had that feedback from constituents, and I hope, all across the Chamber, you will have that too. But to quote Hillary Clinton, 'You can't be it if you can't see it'. We need women in positions of leadership for the women and girls of Wales. Newly elected women—and we will get many more of them as a result of this—can act as catalysts for other women to stand for election.

Thank you, Minister, for your statement today. I think you make a really important point about parliaments that properly represent their communities making better, more informed decisions than those that do not. And so, as one of our original Welsh legislators, I'd like to start by asking what your personal reflections are on how having a comparatively high level of women Assembly Members and Members of the Senedd has helped this Senedd be more effective in its decision making.

Secondly, I note your comments around the experience from Ireland, and your comments in reply to the previous Member that, since the country's inaugural gender quota election in 2016, the number of women candidates contesting there has increased by 90 per cent, while the number of women elected has increased by 44 per cent. However, looking at that example of the Irish Parliament itself, men still outnumber women by around 3.5:1. So, I'd be grateful if you could elaborate on how, if the Welsh Government's proposals are taken forward, mechanisms will be put in place to ensure that a quota doesn't become the end of the issue, and that real change is delivered.

Diolch yn fawr, Vikki Howells. I'm always a bit reticent about reflecting on personal experience, but I served, before I came to this Senedd, in a local authority—and, I have to say, in a Labour group—where there were very, very, few women. Many of you will have had that experience, when the meetings often were opened by the leader and the chair saying, 'Good evening, boys'. That's the way the world was, many decades ago here in Wales. Because we certainly weren't recognised actually as existing as women. I never actually succeeded to get any further than being vice-chair of a committee at local government level. So, that was why, when we came forward with our 'Yes for Wales' campaign, which many of you were involved in, we actually had a campaign for fair representation of women, which Plaid Cymru, the Liberal Democrats and Labour women were involved in.

I have to pay tribute to the late Val Feld, who was one of the first elected Members of this Senedd and sadly died—we've got the purple plaque in remembrance of her—and how she managed to get into our Government of Wales legislation the commitment to promote equality of opportunity. But, in a sense, we have lived through extraordinary times to have a Senedd that has seen women in positions of power across the Senedd. As I say, it's not just in Government; it's the Chairs of the committees, it's the Llywydd—Dame Rosemary Butler before the Rt Hon Elin Jones. We've had women being Chair of the standards committee and leader of our group, Vikki. Every woman in this Chamber and over the years has played an important part in creating this Welsh democracy that we're so proud of.

But I think, also, just in terms of what it means, there's plenty of evidence, and I hope that the committee will look at this. Women in politics, and this is from widespread evidence, prioritise different policy and legislative matters, prioritise particular types of work, e.g. constituency work, champion particular ways of working, drive a higher calibre of candidates overall, create role models in positions of political leadership, increase minority representation, and also, interestingly—this is global evidence—decrease corruption and unethical activity. This is where we have got to—[Interruption.] You can look at the evidence, and I'm sure that the committee will do so. This is a real opportunity for Wales and it is an opportunity for the people that we represent. 

Thank you for the statement, Minister, and for outlining so clearly that the aim of this Bill is to improve the way that this place represents Wales. Because we have to ask the question as to why are we reforming the Senedd, if not to improve the way that it is able to create and scrutinise policy that is aimed at improving the lives of the people of Wales, because without changing the diversity of those who are sent here, to sit in this Chamber to do that, that will not happen. This important step towards improving the nature of the representation of our communities, enriching the life experiences of policy makers, is one to be welcomed, and embraced and supported to the fullest degree. Minister, do you agree that reforming the Senedd without reforming the way that it can represent our communities through this Bill is a false step, and that further delay or a lack of action will endanger not only the reform process and the aim of creating a more efficient legislature to serve all the citizens of Wales, but also the reputation of the Senedd internationally? 

Diolch yn fawr, Sioned Williams. I have said this is very much an important part of the package of Senedd reform, and there's no question it is a package. It is a crucial part of that package of reforms to deliver that commitment to make it a more effective legislature for and on behalf of the people of Wales. I think that's why it's so important again to reflect out to what is being said about what we're doing today by others. The Wales TUC general secretary, Shavanah Taj, welcomed the publication of the Senedd Cymru (Electoral Candidate Lists) Bill today:

'We share Welsh Government’s ambition for a more diverse Senedd, and know that many Senedd members and other organisations are equally committed to this too. 

'Politics—just like all other aspects of public life—should reflect the communities it serves. We are proud that trade union activists have gone on to take up leading roles in politics and other aspects of civil society.'

'This legislation will ensure that there are measures in place to counter the harmful effects of structural inequalities'—

we were talking about this earlier today—

'racism and other forms of discrimination.... We hope that it gains cross-party support and results in the more representative Senedd our country deserves.' 

The issue of Senedd competence in this matter was always likely to be contested. As the Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee will turn its attention to this Bill, as Chair, I will withhold commenting on this issue at the moment, although I should note that, in my former role as Chair of the special purpose committee, we said this matter could be contested and arguments could be finely balanced. I do note that, aside from the issue of competence in this Parliament here and now, this type of legislation is very common internationally and it has been used to ensure that the representation in other Parliaments is more reflective of the wider population by legislative design and intent, not by accident. Internationally, there have been many successful efforts to overturn historical and societal biases in the diverse selection of candidates in winnable seats. We're not alone in Wales, and we're far from the first in trying to achieve a more representative and thereby more effective Parliament through legislative means. I also note that the Welsh Government is committed to taking forward the special purpose committee's recommendations relating to Senedd candidate diversity information and diversity inclusion strategies. So, can I ask, how will you be engaging with the political parties in Wales to develop the guidance, to drive up best practice and transparency in the promotion and selection of a far wider diversity of candidates across all political parties? And just finally, Llywydd, the progressive road is not always the easy road, but it is the right road, so good luck in your intent with this legislation, Minister.

Diolch yn fawr, Huw Irranca-Davies, and thank you for your leadership. Your chairing of the special purpose committee was such an important contribution in your political career—I hope you see that—and in your life as well. It was such an important contribution. Indeed, everybody who's played a part so far—formerly Dawn Bowden chairing the Senedd reform committee.

As you say, there's evidence from around the world. I've mentioned the 130 countries, and over half of electoral systems actually have a form of gender quota, so why can't Wales be the first in the United Kingdom to move forward on this road? I won't go back over the issues that we feel will be important in terms of the way forward, but I think it's important that we see that these are ways of working that actually, as you say, mustn't be by accident. This is about legislative design and intent. That's why this is a proper process, introducing the Bill today—much scrutiny, much development, much discussion. 

As you will know, the Electoral Reform Society has actually been working with political parties over the last few years, though not all have engaged fully, perhaps. They were certainly working when you were chairing your committee, and they're ready to work with political parties in terms of implementing the specific legislation we're discussing today in terms of gender quotas. I met with the Women's Equality Network Wales last week; they're keen, as are the ERS, to get working with political parties on this guidance for diversity and inclusion. I'm really grateful, Darren Millar, that we have got an agreement there that we are going to work on this. I hope that, as all the leaders are here today, that is a commitment to those diversity and inclusion strategies, which you, of course, looked at carefully.

There isn't much experience yet across the world in terms of addressing those issues. What we're doing with our gender quotas is a candidate system, not a reserve system. That's an important decision that's been made as a result of your evidence. We now move forward with legislative design and intent. 

Finally, Adam Price.

Thank you, Llywydd. Having fair and equal representation for all is a victory for all. That is the essence of what you are seeking to achieve with this Bill, Minister. As a man, as men, we benefit as citizens, as fellow Members of the Senedd, from hearing and listening to the voices of women in this place. Because if that isn't the case, we lose that wealth of experience, that perspective on life experiences that is crucial to enable us as a Senedd to do our proper work, to represent the people of Wales in all of their diversity. And certainly, in all of their diversity, the 21 per cent of our people who have disabilities. We have to look at that too. But this is a fundamental and key step forward. And as we deliver this step forward, we can then go on to use the same mechanisms for the whole range of diversity that we want to see represented in this place. 

Thank you very much, Adam Price, for those very important points. We shall all move forward.

Thank you, Minister.

The next item will be a statement by the Minister for Climate Change on the Warm Homes programme. The Minister, Julie James, to make the statement. 

Diolch, Llywydd. This Senedd has rightly expressed a great deal of interest in the new Warm Homes programme. I'm pleased to confirm it will go live on 1 April with advice and referral services provided by Energy Savings Trust and installation services provided by British Gas to improve the fabric of homes across Wales, and assurance services are to be provided by Pennington Choices. 

The new programme will launch in a complex and challenging landscape. The cost-of-living crisis continues to have a detrimental effect on living standards across Wales. Having just seen the hottest global year on record in 2023 and amongst the wettest winters ever recorded in Wales, the climate emergency is moving from the inevitable future to inescapable present reality.

Many of our homes are amongst the oldest and least energy efficient in Europe. This means they take more expensive energy to keep warm in winter, driving up our carbon emissions. It means that, whilst the recent Ofgem announcement on the price cap reduction will bring welcome relief to some households, many in Wales continue to struggle with increased energy costs and are pushed into fuel poverty. 

In 2021 Welsh homes accounted for approximately 10 per cent of all greenhouse gas emissions in Wales. Last summer I set out in a policy statement how the new Warm Homes programme will continue to act as Welsh Government’s primary mechanism to tackle fuel poverty, whilst at the same time playing its part in achieving a net-zero Wales by 2050. It will take a fabric, worst and low-carbon first approach to improve the long-term energy efficiency of the least thermally efficient low-income households in Wales. Our two-pronged approach will deliver a comprehensive energy advice service for everyone in Wales and physically improve the homes of the fuel poor. 

It builds on a strong legacy and complements our existing work in the social housing sector, where we have already made a significant difference in improving the thermal efficiency of homes in Wales. Up until the end of March 2023, more than £440 million has been invested to improve home energy efficiency through the Warm Homes programme, helping more than 77,000 lower income households in the owner-occupied and private rental sectors to reduce their emissions and their bills. We expect figures from this year to confirm that over 200,000 people have benefited from energy efficiency advice through the Warm Homes programme since its launch in 2011. In the social housing sector, around £260 million has been committed through the optimised retrofit programme over this term of government. 

Our continued investment in the Warm Homes and optimised retrofit programmes, or ORP, will drive further improvements for the least energy efficient homes in Wales. Channelling ORP investment through social landlords supports a testing and learning approach to decarbonise Welsh homes effectively and efficiently. 

Dirprwy Lywydd, yesterday I laid the regulations to enable the new Warm Homes programme, which will not only respond to the current cost-of-living crisis and tackle emissions from the owner-occupier and private rental sector, but will promote sustainable Welsh materials, support Welsh skills and jobs and learn from the lessons of the past. 

Welsh Government is leading by example in demonstrating a just transition, on which our consultation closed yesterday. With a £30 million budget allocation next year, we are supporting the vulnerable in society and moving homes to the clean heat of the future rather than propping up the fossil fuels of our past. Our approach will stimulate skills and supply chain development, and demonstrates our strong leadership on these important issues. 

Dirprwy Lywydd, I wish to draw attention to some of the key features and changes in the new scheme. Householders who meet the eligibility criteria will receive a tailored package of support specific to their needs and their home. Low-carbon technologies will be prioritised where it makes sense to do so. Measures such as heat pumps and/or solar panels with battery storage are preferred where possible, making households more resilient to rising energy prices in the future and reducing greenhouse gas emissions.

To ensure we target the least well off, a low-income threshold is being introduced, rather than relying solely on means-tested benefits. A household with an income lower than 60 per cent of the median average is classed as lower income for this scheme and we will not count any disability-related payments or benefits as income.

We are also moving to take a more joined-up approach with complementary schemes to maximise the benefits of these to Welsh citizens. Our advice service will have an important role in understanding each individual’s circumstances and supporting them to access the most appropriate scheme for their needs. We are also working with the Welsh Local Government Association to encourage local authorities to grow the energy company obligation, ECO Flex scheme, in Wales. This will ensure broad access to the scheme for households across Wales and that Welsh householders get their fair share of this money from Westminster.

This new programme is part of our work to develop a more coherent approach across all tenures and income levels to drive decarbonisation. This decade must be a decade of action on climate. We've already published our consultation on the heat strategy, which sets out the vision and priority areas for action. The Welsh housing quality standard 2023 is bold and progressive in setting ambitious targets to address decarbonisation in the social housing stock. It is also making a difference to the overall quality of people’s lives by ensuring that their homes are affordable to heat. What we learn from upgrading our 230,000 social homes will drive how we tackle the decarbonisation of Wales’s 1.2 million privately owned homes and reduce bills for householders across all sectors.

Dirprwy Lywydd, Welsh Government is doing everything we can to support a fairer, greener future for all. But the UK Government has a role to play, and we've repeatedly called on them to make the required changes. We have asked, for instance, for a social tariff for energy, we have asked them to address the injustices of standing charges and prepayment meters, and, of course, we have asked them to support Welsh ambitions for a transformed energy grid. In the light of all that, I am proud to today reflect on the achievements of this Government in making us look to a cleaner, brighter future. Diolch.

As you indicated, Wales has some of the oldest and least thermally efficient housing stock compared with the UK and Europe. The Welsh Government estimates there are 614,000 or 45 per cent of households in Wales in fuel poverty and states that the Warm Homes programme is its primary mechanism to tackle fuel poverty, which is primarily a social justice issue. The new scheme will be demand led and assist those who are least able to pay. However, despite assurances, the Welsh Government did not implement the programme prior to the winter of 2023. In fact, although the Welsh Government fuel poverty strategy stated that they would consult on revised arrangements for delivering measures for tackling fuel poverty beyond March 2023 between June and December 2021, the consultation was not launched until December 2021. The strategy also states that the Welsh Government will publish its response and implement its findings to start in April 2023, but didn't even respond until June 2023. Now we finally have a launch of the scheme, will the Minister state why there's been so much delay in getting to this point?

Now we know which bodies will be delivering the programme, who will be carrying out the monitoring and evaluation that will be key to the delivery of any programme?

Last week at National Energy Action's Wales fuel poverty conference, the director of Citizens Advice Cymru called for an awareness campaign for the new Warm Homes programme. We already know that take-up of certain Welsh Government grants and schemes isn't as high as it could be, so what plans do you have for an awareness campaign? How would it look in practical terms and how will you target the groups most at need, where, for example, the older people's commissioner's recent report 'Access Denied' reported that older people's rights to access information and services are being undermined by poor-quality or non-existent offline alternatives?

Care & Repair have stated they're grateful for the changes and updates that will be made to the Warm Homes programme, including eligibility based on low income, rather than means-tested benefits. However, they're concerned that homes in a poor state of disrepair will not benefit from the programme, as enabling works do not appear to be covered in the scheme, and many homes will not, therefore, benefit from works available through the new programme until the disrepair has been tackled. This means that older home owners, in particular on a low income, will continue to live in homes that are energy inefficient, cold and more expensive to heat, with significant ramifications for their health and well-being. How will you rectify this so the new programme is reaching as many people in need as possible?

The level of the budget threshold per property is still and will be a very important consideration. This will impact the scale and depth of support provided to each household. You state that eligibility will be based on a low-income threshold rather than relying solely on means-tested benefits. So, will the level of the low-income threshold take into account differences in household size and composition? Will it be after housing costs and how will it be allocated per property?

The Welsh Government has confirmed that the programme will have a budget of £35 million in 2024-25, the same as the previous year. The tender document published by the Welsh Government for the new programme outlined that a supplier would be expected to undertake work on 11,500 properties over seven years, equivalent to just over 1,600 properties each year. Based on these figures, it would take over 130 years to improve the energy efficiency of up to 217,700 lower income households currently estimated to be in fuel poverty in Wales, and many decades even with the programme's advice and referral services. How, therefore, do you respond to NEA Cymru's statement that, in future years, the programme's funding will need to significantly increase and that, quote, we have to spend to save, prioritising long-term investment to make fuel-poor homes much warmer, greener, healthier places to live, with energy bills that are permanently low?

Little is known about part 2 of the Warm Homes programme at this stage beyond that it will be an integrated approach across all tenures and income levels to drive decarbonisation. So, what detail can the Minister share with us on part 2 now?

Finally, I've previously called for the Welsh Government to set interim targets in their tackling fuel poverty 2021-25 plan, which does not yet meet the Welsh Government's statutory obligations to specify interim objectives to be achieved and target dates for achieving them. Citizens Advice Cymru states interim targets will ensure that the Welsh Government is accountable for progress, so what are your plans to introduce these targets now? Thank you.

Thanks, Mark. So, I'm just turning to the first issue. I did say in my statement that we had three tranches in the new programme, so just to reiterate, we've got advice and referral services provided by the Energy Saving Trust, so that's how people will get to hear about advice and referral into the programme where appropriate. We also have a whole series of advice programmes that my colleague the Minister for Social Justice runs, where everyone will be enabled to refer people to the Warm Homes programme, and, indeed, the energy advisory service, so if you're not eligible for the programme itself, you'll still get the energy advisory services. Then, as I said, installation services will be provided by British Gas, having gone through the competitive procurement process, and then the assurance services you asked about would be provided by Pennington Choices. So, we've done a little bit of learning from the previous programmes in understanding that one size for the whole thing doesn't really work, so we've got them split out into tranches quite deliberately to be able to pick that up. So, we'll be getting feedback from Pennington Choices as the programme rolls out. So, I think that's a better position than we were in in the previous programme.

In terms of the amount of money, obviously I'm not going to rehearse today the position the Welsh Government's budget is in, but we've done extremely well, I think, to protect some of these budgets. We're also doing—. This is very much not a 'one size fits all', so just in terms of the remarks you made about the fabric of the home, the whole point is that you'd get a survey of the home and its needs, and then we make sure that we retrofit accordingly—there's no point in putting an air source heat pump into a house that leaks like a sieve; it wouldn't have any effect. So, we'll be looking at insulation measures and so on—what else is needed in the home.

One of the things that isn't in my statement, to be fair, but which I've said many times on the floor of the Senedd, is we've been working with local authorities to look at energy efficiency in their areas, and particularly for particular streets and neighbourhoods. And I've said a number of times, and I'll just reiterate it now: if you were to have, for example, a terrace of homes where 80 per cent of the people fit the 60 per cent of median income threshold but the others didn't, we would still consider a scheme that would upgrade the whole of that street, because sometimes a neighbourhood scheme makes more sense in terms of what can be installed in energy efficiency and decarbonisation terms than doing individual households. So, I was very keen to make sure—. And in the conversation we had in Cabinet about this, which my colleague Jane Hutt and myself led, we had a long discussion about the dichotomy, if that's the right word, between just getting out to as many people as possible with one single measure, which is what the old scheme was doing, and actually making sure that we properly retrofit fewer houses—that's true—but in a way that was much more resilient for futureproofing. So, that's the way we've gone.

And then the other thing is on the decarbonisation: we've said that basically, if you've got a gas boiler fitted and it's possible to repair that to give it a longer life and make it more efficient, that would be part of the thing that could happen under the scheme, but where the boiler was not economically viable, then it would not be replaced by a fossil fuel heating source.

So, I think we've looked very carefully at a range of things here that allow us to hit a decent place in this journey, and it is a journey, you're quite right. We've also, of course, been rolling out in the social homes sector some of the optimised retrofit programmes, which I know Members are very familiar with, where we've test trialled tech that works on particular sorts of housing, trying to learn the lessons that Siân Gwenllian and others have brought up in the Chamber around where, you know, cavity wall insulation was perfectly great for many hundreds of homes, but, for some homes, caused real problems. So, we've tried to learn the lesson of not having a one-size-fits-all approach.

And then, the last thing I would say, Mark, is that not all of the levers are in our hands, of course. We do need a better energy grid, we do need a decarbonised energy grid that has much more even distribution of the energy supply and actually to decarbonise its sources. And without trying to make too much of a political point about it, I'm desperately sad about the announcements from the UK Government about building more gas-fired power stations, given the state of the climate. I mean, I just—. I mean, frankly, it just puts you into a place where—. I'm just shaking my head with disbelief, really, that any Government thinks that that's the way forward for an energy grid that gives us either security or certainty or climate resilience. It just doesn't make any sense to me at all.

It's extremely concerning that the Government failed to implement the Warm Homes programme before the end of November despite the pledges made, leaving many vulnerable households in the cold during a period of cold weather before the winter. I've noted the frightening statistics many times in the past, but almost 300 people die in Wales because of cold every year. This is shocking. Indeed, some 30 per cent of additional winter deaths are related to living in cold properties. Quite simply, cold homes kill, and those who have to live in cold homes have to suffer and cope with that cold.

Research by Public Health Wales shows that cold temperatures in the home are related to poor health outcomes, and living in temperatures below 18 degrees Celsius leads to damaging effects on people's health and is related to heart conditions and pulmonary conditions, sleeping disorders and poor health and physical performance generally. The impact on older people is particularly acute. Three quarters of additional winter deaths belong to that cohort of people over 75 years old.

Wales has the oldest and least energy-efficient housing stock in the UK and among the oldest in Europe. Indeed, my constituency of Dwyfor Meirionnydd has the oldest stock and is among the least energy-efficient in the whole of Wales.

So, while the support offered by the Welsh Government has been a welcome lifeline, the current situation is utterly unsustainable. A report by Care and Repair Cymru revealed that 96 per cent of households accessing Care and Repair's energy advice service were identified as living in fuel poverty. While there has been an increase in the state pension in line with inflation, older citizens still face higher utility expenses. This places additional stress on already vulnerable households, raising concerns about escalating debts and the struggle to afford necessities. So, I'd like to ask the Minister: what discussions has the Government had with UK Government to improve the take-up of the benefits that these people deserve and are allowed to access?

It's disappointing that, despite allocated funds, the Welsh Government delayed action, leaving those in severe fuel poverty, particularly those in the least energy-efficient homes, without support. We in Plaid Cymru urged the Welsh Government back in November to swiftly implement the Warm Homes programme to aid low-income households in improving their energy efficiency for winter. This urgency was also emphasised by the Wales expert group on the cost-of-living crisis, stressing the importance of launching the scheme promptly. However, the Government rejected these calls, resulting in concerning statistics. Thirty-one per cent of people went without heating in their homes in the three months leading to January 2024, and Citizens Advice saw a record number of people seeking fuel vouchers. Additionally, nearly a quarter of children in Wales expressed worries about being cold. So, can the Minister give an assurance to us today that there will be no further delays and that we won't see any further delays leading up to next winter?

And this, of course, is the context in which people were facing a delay in the programme this year: cold and inefficient homes kill, and they will have killed over the last winter, and the Warm Homes programme must do more than its predecessors to ensure improvements are made to the Welsh housing stock to make them cheaper and more efficient to heat, while ensuring people are supported. We need a sufficiently funded area-based, targeted programme that gets to grips with the issues of cold homes.

While it's positive that the programme is now being rolled out to support those in fuel poverty, we maintain that this action should have been taken much earlier, rather than waiting until after another challenging winter. So, let's be clear, though: fuel poverty is a multifaceted issue. We can reduce it by improving the housing stock that exists through installing low-carbon technologies, retrofitting, and we need to increase the scale and pace of delivering low-carbon social housing. After all, it's the wider housing crisis that has put huge pressure on households, including those on low incomes, who, more often than not, have to pay a poverty premium for their energy while facing rising rents, which force them to choose between heating, eating and keeping a roof over their heads. So, can the Minister confirm that each household that reaches the eligibility criteria will receive the assistance required without being hampered by further tests or appeal procedures? Diolch yn fawr iawn.

Yes, thanks, Mabon. I don't disagree at all with your analysis of what happens if you live in a cold home—obviously that's why we are putting the programme in place—and nor do I disagree with your analysis that many of our homes are the worst. In fact, I said so in my statement. I just want to say, though, at that point, in my original statement it said 'Welsh homes are'; it's 'many Welsh homes are', deliberately, because actually one of the things that we have done, and we've done it as part of the co-operation agreement, as you know, is that we've insisted that new-build homes in the social sector are low-carbon completely, but actually even in the private sector we've changed Part L of the building regulations to up the level of insulation and up the level of heat efficiency, and, actually, cooling efficiency, as it happens, so that new-build homes in Wales are much, much more efficient than they would have been otherwise—a measure that was wholeheartedly opposed by everybody on the opposite benches, because apparently cost is everything until you're in a debate of this sort. So, it is about getting the balance right so that we aren't storing up—I completely agree with you—that we aren't currently building, in my own famous phrase, the slums of the future, and that we are not giving a future Government in 10 years' time a retrofit nightmare the same as we currently have, because of the standards to which those homes were built—albeit many hundreds of years ago, in some cases. So, I accept all of that.

Just to say that we didn't have no programme running over the last winter, just to be clear. We did have Nest running, so actually a number of households did benefit from the Nest programme. Improvements in those households had an estimated average of £420 off their annual bill once those improvements had been put in. But if you think about the energy costs and the acceleration of energy costs over the last two years, people are facing thousands of pounds of costs, which we were not in a position to be able to mitigate. So, one of the big calls that we have from the UK Government, and I said it in my answer to Mark Isherwood, and actually even the Government has said it today in a statement, I saw, is that reform of the energy market would have a vast improvement on this, because actually being able to have affordable energy supplies, electricity supplies, in a decarbonised grid that was both efficient and effective, would make much more difference in your constituency, for example, than almost anything else that we can do. So, I just think it's important to keep the macro-level stuff in sight as well.

Having said that, I would have liked to have been able to roll this programme out quicker. It would take much longer than necessary to go through all of the procurement hurdles that we've had through the last several months, but anyway it's here now. It will start on 1 April. There will not be any further delays. It will then be rolled out and it will be well embedded before next winter. We have been quite lucky over this winter, because it's been one of the warmest on record. I'm really reluctant to say that, because that is not lucky; that is a measure of the climate change that we are facing. Each successive year over the last five has been warmer than the one before, and this has also been the wettest one, so we've had a whole series of other issues to look at.

In terms of eligibility, we want to make that as efficient as possible. That's why we've got the advisory services put into the procurement. It's deliberately there to assist people through. We don't want people put off. My colleague Jane Hutt and I have been working with the advice agencies to make sure that there's no wrong door for this, that everybody is referred into it. We've also been working with councils for quite a while now to make sure that people who are, for example, eligible for council tax rebates are automatically referred into the programme, as they're very likely to be the same cohort of people, but I'm very happy to accept any suggestions from Members of the Senedd about anything else we can do to make sure that people are referred in efficiently to the programme. We do know that it's difficult to get hold of people, especially in the older age groups, who are pretty proud and perhaps haven't accepted help before, and you need help to get them to understand that this is an entitlement and it will very much benefit their lives.

The last thing I wanted to say on this as well is just—. We put the heat strategy out—I can't quite remember, just before Christmas, I think it was, it went out for consultation. So, this is part of an overarching strategy, as I said in answer to Mark Isherwood. So, we are doing a whole series of other things here around energy efficiency for other tenures as well.

And then, on the private sector, the long-term rented sector in particular, we have been trying to work with the UK Government who randomly said that they were going to put an energy performance certificate E threshold, if you remember, on it, and then took that away again. Because what we need is a mechanism to allow private sector landlords to decarbonise their homes and make them more energy efficient, without driving the rents up so that they're unaffordable. So, we have been very much pushing the leasing scheme Wales plan for this, where, if you give your home over to us for five years minimum, but 10 years better, 15 years optimal, we would actually assist you to bring that home right up to the highest standard whilst you receive the local housing allowance as rent all the way through that period. That is proving more and more attractive to private sector landlords, and we've been proactively targeting those in inner-city areas with very large houses that have multi-generational families living in them. So, in my constituency, for example, a number of the private rented sector homes are multi-generational, large homes that would be quite expensive to retrofit without this kind of scheme.

So, we have been trying to get it out as much as possible, if I can say that to you, and I'm very pleased that we've done a lot of lessons-learned exercises for this so that we don’t repeat some of the scheme problems that we had with Arbed, for example, that Members will be familiar with.

There's a great deal to be applauded from your statement, Minister. I'm very pleased to see that there will be no wrong door, as you've just said, that we're going to use Welsh materials where they're available, and we're going to focus on the worst first.

We also, as you say, need to get local authorities on board. I was depressed to hear an officer responsible for our schools' premises say that solar tiles are untested technology, which, I'm afraid, indicates that they don't get out much talking to the industry.

I also applaud your three-pronged procurement, because I think that will give us a much better way of testing the quality of the advice, the quality of the installation, and also the assurance to be provided by this other agency.

I just wanted to ask about your preferred provider of British Gas, because, obviously, the name indicates that they know more about a fossil fuel. How did the Welsh Government satisfy itself that British Gas has the capacity and the capability to install the full range of low-carbon, renewable energy solutions to meet the particular needs of individual fuel-poor households, because I completely agree that this is absolutely crucial to making people far less vulnerable to the rise and rise in energy prices based on gas?

Yes, that's an interesting point, isn't it? So, just to be clear, the procurement was very specific about installing the right tech in the right home, and you had to have capability to install the right tech in the right home, you had to understand and demonstrate your understanding of the tech results, if you like, that we have. We have plenty—. If you want to refer the officer of the local authority to me, Jenny, I can point them to plenty of evidence on the solar panel point. But not every home is okay for solar panels, particularly if you need battery technology, and it depends where you are in the world et cetera. It will work to some extent in most homes, but it is not the most efficient thing for some homes. Some homes would be far better off with air or ground-source heat pumps, for example, or better efficiency in a number of other areas. And even with solar panels, of course, some of them are water heating and some of them are battery sourced and so on. So, I can assure you that a vigorous assessment was done of being able to apply the right tech at the right time. In fact, actually, companies like British Gas, who also supply electricity—the name is misleading, shall we say, for that point—of course also need to retrofit their own skilled workforce because there will be less and less demand for gas fitters, and more and more demand for people who can fit other things. So, this also assists with us to reskill an existing workforce in Wales. So, I'm quite pleased with that, and a vigorous assessment of all of that was gone through, and that's partly why it's taken quite so long to get where we are.

But I am very pleased that we've split the contract out in the way that we have, not least because we wanted people to be able to receive impartial advice on what was suitable, not from the people who are fitting it, so that there's no assumption of an in-built bias for a particular type of tech, for example. So, I'm very pleased with that and I think we'll see a step change in the way that we do that. This new programme also allows more than one visit. So, with the old Nest programme, if you'd had a chance at Nest, then that was it, you were not able to retrofit again, if you like, so we've overcome that for this programme as well, and then I'm more particularly pleased with the neighbourhood approach that we have in some areas.

Finally, Sioned Williams.

Thank you, Dirprwy Lywydd. Well, after very frustrating and very damaging delays for the 45 per cent of Welsh families in fuel poverty, here's confirmation that the Warm Homes programme will at last be operational, and that, of course, is to be welcomed. This is the Government's main mechanism to tackle fuel poverty. The aim of the Welsh Government's plan, 'Tackling fuel poverty 2021 to 2035', is to ensure that the number of households living in fuel poverty falls to 5 per cent, but the figures show that we are a long way from reaching that mark.

You have a statutory obligation to set interim targets in the scheme, but despite the many calls from Plaid Cymru, Senedd committees and Fuel Poverty Coalition Cymru, there have been no interim targets set. Minister, they're vital in order to review the effectiveness of the strategy and to map out vital progress towards the 2035 targets. So, once again, Minister, will you act on this, and support the obvious need to set interim targets in the tackling fuel poverty strategy, because without these milestones, we're unlikely to generate the ongoing actions needed to tackle our fuel poverty crisis?

Thanks, Sioned. I don't want to just say 'no' to that, because I understand exactly where you're coming from, but I'm a little bit ambivalent about interim targets at this point in the programme, if I'm honest. So, what we'd very much like to see is the first year of action of the programme before we can really see—. I, for example, have absolutely no idea at all how many of the homes that will benefit would have an upgraded, more efficient, repairable gas boiler in them or need a more fundamental refit. I've already referenced a conversation we had in Cabinet about the difficult balance between just getting out to as many people as possible with a small intervention and actually making homes more resilient in the longer term. So, I don't quite know how I would set the interim targets; I don't quite know what we're looking at. So, we could probably come up with things that were indicative, but I'm not sure that they'd be particularly instructive in terms of how the programme's rolling out.

So, I would say that the best thing to do—and I'm very happy to promise this, and that might be for a successor Minister, given where we are in the Government cycle—but I'm very happy to look at that again after a year of the programme and then we'd have a much better database for what we're actually looking at. We've also got the social landlords doing a three-year housing stock survey, which will give us a much better idea on the social stock side, and we've also got the energy efficiency surveys rolling out across local authorities. So, we will then have much better data to be able to set smart targets, as they're called, so ones that are much more likely to be achievable and stretching, because at the moment it would be a little random. So, I don't want to say 'no' to what you're asking me, but at the same time, I don't want to say 'absolutely', because I'm not yet in a position to be able to do that, but I think, within a short period of time, we will be in a position to do that, and then I would be very happy to do so.

Thank you, Minister.

Item 5 is a statement by the Deputy Minister for Social Partnership on International Women's Day. I call on the Deputy Minister, Hannah Blythyn.

Thank you. International Women's Day is a day to celebrate the achievements of women and girls everywhere, a day to reflect upon the many women who have influenced and inspired us. Importantly, it is also a time to highlight the challenges that women and girls still face.

This year's theme is 'Inspire inclusion', and on International Women's Day itself I was pleased to be able to take part in a Women's Equality Network Wales cafe event, focused on this and the UN theme this year, 'Invest in women: accelerate progress'.

It should go without saying that to invest in women is to accelerate progress and that when women benefit, we all benefit. In this Siambr, we have committed to both aspire to and inspire inclusion, and our record on the representation of women in the Senedd is one we can be proud of. It not only changes the face of our politics, but the focus of it too; it's good for policy making and can lead to better decision making.

But we cannot be complacent and we must continue to provide a platform for women to progress in political life. That's one of the reasons why the Welsh Government supports the Equal Power Equal Voice programme, which aims to increase diversity of representation in public and political life in Wales, with people gaining roles as board members, trustees, school governors, and being successful in local elections.

Sadly, we still hear the all too inevitable cries about why we need and why we mark International Women’s Day. Let's be clear: whilst violence against women and girls, toxic cultures, sexism, misogyny and imbalances of power remain an all too common everyday occurrence, the need to campaign and challenge remains. This can and must change. Such behaviours have no place in any part of society, and we all have a responsibility to play our part and also to get our own house in order. To step up and speak out does make a difference.

I want to thank Johanna Robinson, the national adviser for violence against women, domestic abuse and sexual violence, for recently sharing her story. Johanna’s bravery and courage will help and encourage others to come forward, to get support and to bring perpetrators to justice. So, we pay tribute to all women who speak out and share about the abuse and mistreatment they have experienced and witnessed, and whether they realise it or not, these women will be forging the path for a better future for women and girls everywhere.

Inspiring inclusion in our children helps us to get it right from the start. Our focus on healthy relationships, equality and inclusivity is at the heart of our relationship and sexuality education for all learners. Online safety is an ever-evolving and complex issue, and educating young people on how to safely engage with social media is a cross-curricular issue. Diprwy Lywydd, I recently visited Ysgol Gyfun Cwm Rhymni to see their work on period dignity. I was really inspired by the pupils and their willingness to articulately talk openly about periods. They really are embodying this year’s theme and showing that our work on period dignity is having an impact, like increasing participation in school and sport.

Alongside this, we continue to provide support for girls and young women into science, technology, engineering and maths. In November, Anna Petrusenko, from Gower College, won the Engineering Education Scheme Wales student of the year award, and I'm sure Anna will go on to have a successful STEM career here in Wales.

We're also inspiring inclusion in the workplace through our support for childcare and fair work. Flexible, affordable childcare provision is central to supporting parents, to improve income through work or by accessing education and training. We are committed to making Wales a fair work nation, one that ensures that women and, indeed, all workers, have equal opportunity in accessing fair work, remaining in work and progressing in work.

We continue to promote the benefits that an equal, diverse and inclusive workforce can bring for both individuals and businesses. The social enterprise Elite Clothing Solutions, based in Ebbw Vale, is putting the Welsh Government’s priorities into practice by giving opportunities to enable inclusive employment for disabled and disadvantaged people, older workers, young people and lone parents. Their efforts led them to win the Wales Business Awards' diversity and inclusion award last year.

Women across Wales are making their mark as leaders. Last year, Natasha Hirst became the first disabled president of the National Union of Journalists. Natasha is well known to many of us in the Siambr and is also the chair of Disability Arts Cymru, a member of the Welsh Government’s disability rights taskforce, and, of course, a committed trade union and equality activist. 

At the Ethnic Minority Welsh Women Achievement Association awards, two Welsh Government staff received awards for leadership—Nashima Begum and Ayanna Mathurine—both of whom worked on the 'Anti-racist Wales Action Plan', and there are so many more that we could mention, but sadly don't have time to today.

In healthcare, there are changes taking place that foster inclusion. We have employed a midwife to lead on equality, diversity and inclusion issues within maternity and neonatal policy, which is helping to eliminate some of the disparities experienced by black, Asian and minority ethnic women through the perinatal period. But, as always, there is more to do.

Dirprwy Lywydd, women were fundamental to the foundations of devolution and are the backbone of our economy. When women have decent and dignified work, our communities, our economy and our country benefit. This lunch time, I was proud to support a Wales TUC International Women’s Day event, 'Celebrating women in our trade union movement’, recognising the role that trade unions are playing in empowering women, both in workplaces and in Wales.

It’s more than a century since the Representation of the People Act 1918, over half a century since the Ford Dagenham women took the industrial action that led to the Equal Pay Act 1970, and a quarter of a century since the dawn of devolution. We're here in no small part because of the women that paved the way before us, yet there is still a way to go. 

We are not here, though, to make up the numbers, but because we have a huge contribution to make to our workplaces, our communities and our country. When women’s voices are central to devolved politics, our democracy is better for it, so let’s all commit to continuing to play our part to inspire inclusion in all walks of life.

Thank you, Deputy Minister, for your statement today. As you noted, Friday 8 March, last week, marked International Women's Day 2024, a day in which we pay tribute to women from all across the world who are ambassadors for our rights and role models for the next generation, as well as those throughout history who have fought for us to have these rights. International Women's Day reminds us not only that we have come a long way, but also that there is still far to go in ensuring women from all ages, all backgrounds, all races, all religions have equal opportunities and treatment in every scenario that we may face. 

I know just earlier this year, the Senedd's very own Equality and Social Justice Committee published a report referring to gender-based violence as an 'epidemic', and looked at the harsh reality that sexism and misogyny are not just isolated incidents, but are systematic and recurrent issues deep rooted within the structure of society itself. And this is disappointingly backed up with estimates published by the World Health Organization that indicated that, globally, around one in three women worldwide have been subjected to either physical and/or sexual violence in their lifetime. That's 30 per cent of women across the world.

This shocking and abhorrent statistic also goes alongside research within the crime survey for England and Wales, which estimated that, in the year ending March 2020, 1.6 million women between the ages of 16 and 74 experienced domestic abuse. That's 7 per cent of the UK's female population, and a further 5 per cent have experienced stalking, and not only is this physical abuse, but emotional as well. It has a long-lasting, devastating impact on victims for the rest of their lives, and we must continue collectively to do everything in our power to get these figures down, so that women and girls feel safe on our streets here in Wales, in their homes and also places of work. So, with this in mind, Deputy Minister, what work has been done since the release of the report's findings to combat gender-based violence and to help diminish the systematic sexism that's built into our society? 

I'd also like to take this opportunity to thank you, Deputy Minister, and also the Minister, and to pay tribute to the work that you've done, campaigning on behalf of women who are victims of domestic violence and for supporting equal opportunities for women and girls right from the early stages of schools all the way to their adult life. Last week, I met with many of these young women, alongside both of you as well, from schools across south-east Wales at our very own Welsh Parliament International Women's Day celebrations. I was on a table with a group of young women from Cardiff West Community High School, who engaged in a brilliant discussion on breaking down barriers and stigma around girls getting into roles of leadership, including the political industry.

These young women, also known, as I call them, as 'the next generation', were an inspiration, and I hope that they went away, as I did, feeling inspired and knowing that they're capable of doing and achieving anything that they put their hearts and minds to. So, for this International Women's Day 2024 I hope that we collectively not only empower the next generation to do whatever it is they wish and help them to raise awareness and protect women of all ages and backgrounds against violence and domestic abuse, but I hope that we all continue to educate—educate our fathers, our brothers and our sons, so that the next generation of men grow up in a world where women are thought of as equals from the get go, and that instead of attempting to reverse the systematic misogyny already built into our society, we will be championing and celebrating the fact that the work of women in the generations from the past has meant that our sisters, daughters, mothers and friends do not have to be afraid for their safety simply because they're a woman. 

So, finally, Deputy Minister, what is the Welsh Government going to be doing to educate all pupils so that, right from the beginning, the next generation understand the importance of equal opportunities and that discrimination of any form is simply going to be unacceptable? Thank you.  

Diolch. Can I thank Natasha Asghar and actually thank you for everything that I know you do as a role model for young women in communities across Wales as well? I think if I answer first around the work around—. You talked about the link, sadly, between misogyny and sexism and then perpetrators of violence against women as well. We know that that sort of behaviour and sexual harassment are part of that wider disturbing culture of violence against women. You're right that we're only going to address the root cause of those behaviours if we address sexism and misogyny in every part of society, including the workplace. I think, for us as a Government, it's about using the levers we do have to make a difference, and to achieve some meaningful change.

Our violence against women, domestic abuse and sexual violence strategy is actually being delivered through a blueprint approach, so it brings together all those partners across the public, private and specialist sectors in Wales, recognising this is not a job for one agency or one organisation. We're only going to achieve that change, because it's a huge cultural change as well, with that collective action. And like you said, and like I said in my opening remarks, it starts at the beginning, doesn't it? It starts in school. Our new inclusive relationships and sexuality education has a role to play in that, and also the inclusive curriculum around active citizenship and the broad range of resources there to support learners regarding online safety. That’s obviously an evolving situation as well.

To finish my answer to you on a positive, you’re right that International Women’s Day is a time to reflect on the history, and the women that came before us and paved the way, but also to try and move forward and support the next generation. It was really good to be at the International Women’s Day event with you, with Jane Hutt, and I believe Sioned Williams was there at the round-table as well, and to listen. It worked out really well for me, because I actually had somebody who was taking part in the Equal Power Equal Voice programme, who's actually a mentee to one of the Welsh Government officials. I think they'd been at an event that Heledd Fychan and I spoke about, and then they came in for the day. But actually, it was really good, having somebody who was part of that programme as part of that discussion with those young women—I think I was with someone from Fitzalan High School, talking about the things that they wanted to see, and the barriers. I think they went away deciding they were going to have their own International Women’s Day event at their school next year. They’re going to emulate the panel that they’d seen there, because they’d enjoyed it and valued it so much.

It's good to hear you mention Ysgol Gyfun Cwm Rhymni, my old school. It's wonderful to know that there is a new generation of strong women in the vanguard there.

I'm sure many of us spent International Women’s Day speaking about the need for gender equality, celebrating the achievements of women, thanking our sisters who have inspired or supported us. I was glad to discuss, as you referenced, with young women from Ysgol Plasmawr who came to the Senedd the matters they were concerned about as young Welsh women—the unacceptable gender pay gap, the fact that they can’t get hold of the right sports equipment as it’s designed for men, that our women’s national teams don’t, in their view, have parity of esteem with the men’s. They also felt the achievements of women were still not as widely known as men’s, and it was remarked upon that the leaders of the three largest political parties in Wales, including my own, are men.

It’s great to see this statement to mark International Women’s Day is being made on this historic day for Welsh politics—the same day as the introduction of the Senedd Cymru (Electoral Candidate Lists) Bill, which will bring in gender quotas to ensure women are better represented in this Senedd. We can ensure women are represented and that the policies we make reduce inequality by transforming the systems from which so many injustices faced by women stem. Plaid Cymru want to see a fair Wales based on equality of outcome, not just equality of opportunity.

However, we as a nation still have a long way to go towards a gender-equal nation that is free of bias, stereotypes and discrimination, and there has to be constant challenge in our culture and practice, in our institutions and services. The reforms need to be meaningful, the action radical, the changes apparent. To achieve a truly gender-equal Wales, we have to focus on the most marginalised women first—the women in society who face the greatest barriers and the most disadvantaged—and the compound effect of the intersection between gender inequality and other socioeconomic inequalities, which is clear in every report we read. Study after study tells us that women in Wales are at greater risk of poverty and that the cost-of-living crisis is disproportionately impacting women, particularly those from an ethnic minority background and disabled women.

In order to properly tackle gender inequality, the Welsh Government must fully commit to implementing gender budgeting, as suggested in the gender equality review. We welcome the progress made to date, but it remains too slow, and must be implemented to ensure policy does not disproportionately impact women. I’d like an update, therefore, on these issues, please, Deputy Minister, and a commitment that the impact of policies must not only be identified but acted upon. In our scrutiny work, the Equality and Social Justice Committee heard an admission from the Government that women would be disproportionately impacted by many decisions taken, but they were taken anyway. So do you agree, Minister, this cannot be allowed to continue if the Government is truly committed to gender equality?

We must also do more to tackle the misogyny and violence against women that we are seeing within public services, especially in light of the investigation that found a sexist and misogynist culture in the South Wales Fire and Rescue Service, and the recent report into the Metropolitan police's handling of the Sarah Everard case. Do you agree we must never tolerate any member of public services keeping their jobs despite allegations that they had sexually harassed and abused women, or were overseeing this culture, or allowed to retire or move to other posts while doing so?

Many women have expressed deep distaste and despair seeing politicians who will not call for an immediate ceasefire in Gaza celebrating progress on women's rights in Wales and the UK last week while an estimated 9,000 women have reportedly been killed by Israeli forces in Gaza. While we were thanking and thinking of our mothers this Sunday, an estimated 37 mothers were killed in Gaza. Some 60,000 pregnant women are suffering from dehydration and malnutrition there, and there's no period dignity in Gaza, no access to toilets, pads or clean water. As I highlighted in my recent debate on Wales's role in calling for global peace, led by Welsh women, such as those who, a century ago, spoke truth to power with their peace petition to the US—my great grandmother, a woman who lived in poverty, among them—the Government has much to do in terms of our role internationally in promoting the rights of women and girls. The discourse of women's rights cannot be apart from the fact of the military violence in Gaza. I am in this place because my rights as a woman were hard won. It is my duty as a woman in this place to raise my voice against that violence. We must do more to support our sisters in Gaza, and use our voice as a nation to condemn this horrific war. Are you prepared, Minister, to add the Welsh Government's voice to the international calls for an immediate ceasefire and an end to the mass suffering of Palestinian women and girls? 

I thank Sioned Williams for her contribution. I know there's always much we have in common, even if it's just the things that make us equally angry and determined to achieve change. I didn't realise that Ysgol Gyfun Cwm Rhymni was your old school. And I think it was Delyth Jewell's as well. [Interruption.] That was perfect timing, Delyth. A lot of the work you find, as politicians, and as members of Government, is incredibly challenging—it's worth while, but it's challenging—and you have to keep driving that change, in the face of adversity, and challenge coming back, which isn't always scrutiny, but it's more like, 'We don't want change'. But to go on those school visits such as that really reminds us of why we are doing this. And just to see those young women, how articulate and confident they were, and just how empowered they felt by being able to—. It had been led by their voices. They had said what they needed, and they'd shaped what that support looked like within their school, and then they were really keen to share that with other schools, about what they were doing in the area, and take it from there as well. It really was an inspiring visit. 

On the other side of that, we know that austerity and the cost of living hits those least able to bear the burden hardest. You talked about gender budgeting, and we have conducted gender budgeting pilots to shape an understanding of how that work can be embedded and expanded. That work is continuing to get a better understanding of that gender budget and how that can become the norm, rather than the exception. We're doing that with links with a range of internal and external colleagues who are interested in this work. For me, the next step with that is not just about gender budgeting, it's seeing things through a gender lens, isn't it? Because certain decisions and certain policies impact on women more than men—I don't mean just negatively, but, actually, you can make decisions in a certain way that better improves the outcomes of women. I think there is work in the future, working with the committee, and across Government, in terms of, actually, how we further put those structures in place to make sure we do see things in that way.

One of the things I would say, and one of the reasons why you do see things that way—and it goes back to how you started—is that, actually, having more women taking those decisions, not just in this Siambr, not just in Government, but within the civil service, within those different organisations that come together through our social partnership arrangements—. Actually, that's why we say people are experts by experience—workers in social partnership, but women, in particular, too. So, I think there's more that we can do and lessons that we can learn on that. I absolutely agree with you that we have a role to play in terms of not just—. People fought hard for us to be here, and we definitely don't take that for granted, and we will fight hard for others, whether that is some of the horrific things we are seeing in Gaza at the moment, but also here at home in terms of making sure the next generation has a better future than us. 

Deputy Minister, thank you for your statement. International Women's Day is that annual occasion to rightly mark and celebrate the achievements of women and girls everywhere across the globe, and it allows us to focus in and recognise that many women and girls, now more than ever, are suffering disproportionately in global conflicts, from war, from displacement and from sexual violence.

But it's what happens every day that counts as well, and there are too many women and girls in the world today who do not have access to basic human rights or education, and it is right that we come together and say that we should all be working towards equal representation for women across all of our Parliaments, equal pay and parental leave, and, also, the ending of violence against women and girls. I also welcome the forthcoming gender quota legislation anticipated in this place.

I was honoured to represent the Senedd, along with my colleague Janet Finch-Saunders, last week at the tenth British Islands and Mediterranean Region Commonwealth Women Parliamentarians conference, entitled 'Resilient women: moulding girls into strong women', and, as vice-chair of the CWP steering committee, to accept the common development plan for this region. It was an opportunity for female parliamentarians across the Commonwealth region to discuss the advancements and challenges that we share, faced by women and girls in our respective countries and legislatures. It is right that equal pay, equal parental leave, equal representation and ending violence against women are rung out loud and clear.

You do need to ask your question now.

Deputy Minister, in your statement you rightly highlight that women are fundamental to the foundations of devolution and the backbone of our economy. So, what do you feel are the biggest challenges for women and girls in the short, medium and long term in twenty-first century Wales, and do you agree with me that change must continue at pace?