National Assembly for Wales

Good afternoon, all. Before we begin, I want to make a brief statement.

Before we begin today's proceedings, I'd like to make some points concerning the debate surrounding the 20 mph regulations that came into force over the weekend. Overnight, I've become aware of several Members—myself included—receiving abusive and threatening messages on social media, e-mail and telephone, due to their stance on this topic. Our staff have had to deal with much of this this morning. Whilst it's encouraging to see unprecedented interest in our Petitions Committee and its work, we all have a duty to ensure that public debate in Wales is measured, dignified and respectful. For us in this Chamber, that means setting the tone for how we expect others to express their views, whatever their stance on this matter or any other matter, and that we do that in a way that does not demean or undermine any individual. I've received representations from one Member about the conduct of another Member during yesterday's proceedings, and have corresponded with both individuals accordingly. I will conclude by urging Members to bear all of this in mind when articulating their views in the Chamber, and, in turn, influencing how others behave outside this Chamber.

I'll move on now to the first item of business today, and that's the questions to the economy Minister. The first question is to be answered by the Deputy Minister and to be asked by Sam Rowlands.

Can I thank Sam Rowlands for that question, and say that we do greatly value our heritage railways? But, all sectors of our society must play their part in addressing the climate emergency. We would encourage the industry to work with the Welsh Government to develop transition plans in line with the net-zero targets.

Thank you, Deputy Minister, for that initial response. As you say, the support for the heritage rail sector is welcome, because, of course, across the United Kingdom, the heritage railways are worth around £0.5 billion to the economy. You'll be aware of some significant heritage railways in my patch, in north Wales—the Ffestiniog and Welsh highland railway partially running through the region, attracting around 200,000 visitors a year. And there is, of course, also the Llangollen to Corwen railway, which generates around £8.5 million for the local economy. I must declare a personal interest there—my father volunteers from time to time on that particular railway and, I must say, always does a fantastic job, I'm sure. Wales, of course, is rich with coal that would be perfect for use in the heritage rail sector. It's high quality and burns more efficiently than other types of coal, and, of course, does not need to be transported very far at all. Instead, at the moment, the sector is now having to look at importing coal from other countries—from the other side of the world, at times—with some of them having questionable human rights. And I want to stress to you, Deputy Minister, the money generated and the jobs supported by the heritage rail sector, but all of this relies on the use of coal at the moment. So, I wonder what you can do to ensure that coal from the United Kingdom can be used for this purpose, instead of having to import it from overseas, which will risk having a much worse environmental impact.

Can I thank Sam Rowlands for those very important points in his supplementary question? And, again, can I reiterate that we have long been supportive of our heritage railways, and we do absolutely understand the economic value of these important cultural and heritage assets? We've invested in many of them, in supporting their presence and their ability to continue. In fact, I was on the Llangollen railway not so long ago—I had a journey along the Llangollen railway. And I'm very pleased that the local volunteers—maybe your dad's one of them—keep me regularly informed on the development and the work that's going on there. And in fact, I've got one in my own constituency, of course—the Brecon mountain railway. So, I do know the value of them, absolutely. But we are aware of the challenges that the sector faces, for all the reasons that you've set out, and that they do currently rely on the extraction and consumption of coal products. So, our efforts as a Government now are focused on making the transition to net-zero emissions a just transition. So, we are looking to get the heritage railways to move away from the use of coal. Because one of the things that I would have to say is that the heritage sector alone can't sustain the remaining coal mines that we have in Britain, including in my own constituency—the opencast mine of Ffos-y-frân. So, what we want to do is encourage the heritage rail industry to work with Government to develop those transition plans. And there's a growing body of evidence suggesting that the sector could reduce its reliance on fossil fuels through continued efforts to trial alternative renewable fuels, and we've got examples of biomass logs, wood briquettes, biodiesel and, of course, the use of hydrogen fuel cell engines. So, what I would say, in conclusion, is that Welsh Government absolutely stands ready to support the sector through this transition, and I would encourage heritage railways to engage with my officials, to discuss this and to identify what funding might be available to help them into that transition.

Thank you. Despite these programmes operating in devolved areas, the Welsh Government was denied a meaningful role in their design and implementation by the UK Government. We are working with our stakeholders in Wales to minimise the impact of what is now a fragmented and vastly reduced funding landscape.

Thank you, Minister. And I'm sure I wasn't the only one who was extremely concerned to read the recent Senedd committee report that stated that Wales's future economic success will be jeopardised if the UK Government doesn't engage and work with the Welsh Government in this area. And the UK Government's so-called levelling-up process has left Wales with less say over crucial funds, and it's also undermined, as you said, the devolution settlement by centralising decisions in Westminster, and we're now more than £1 billion worse off as a result of the UK Government's failure to meet its promise to replace previous EU funds in full. Minister, would you be able to tell the Senedd whether you find the UK Government any more co-operative today than when you became economy Minister in 2021?

The picture is varied. From the time when I became the economy Minister to now, in some areas, we have reached pragmatic conclusions where we've been able to strike agreement. Free ports is one example. However, in others, we've been met with indifference, and, in some areas, outright hostility. And the challenge for this approach is that, actually, in seeking to have a fight and not to seek an answer, we will, I think, end up with poor value for public money, and we will, as the Senedd committee has said, jeopardise the economic future for Wales. 

We have always recognised that there is an area for us to co-operate and take pragmatic choices with the UK Government. What we won't do, though, is willingly accept a future determined by the UK Government in areas that are devolved to the Welsh Government and to this Senedd, and we'll continue to stand up and make the case that Wales should have not been left over £1 billion short, the Conservative manifesto should not have been breached in the flagrant way it has been, and we'll continue to stand up for Wales and argue for a better future, which I believe will come if there is a UK Labour Government after the next election. 

As has already been mentioned, the Economy, Trade and Rural Affairs Committee published a report last week following our inquiry into post-EU regional development funding. And the committee has made it very clear that for development funding to work for the people of Wales, the UK and Welsh Governments have to work together much more effectively. Now, the committee has recommended that the Welsh and UK Governments should undertake a review of whether the different elements of the shared prosperity fund should be delivered at a local, regional or at an all-Wales level, based on what works best. So, Minister, do you share this view, and, if so, what representations have you made to the UK Government regarding this specific matter?

Well, the starting point is the UK Government need to acknowledge this is a devolved area. They need to acknowledge we're not simply supplicants. They need to acknowledge that we have a decision-making role in the Welsh Government, as indeed does this Parliament, and that simply has not happened. And the challenge for us is: are the UK Government prepared to be serious and willing partners in the future of Wales, or are they determined to do things to Wales that don't respect the mandate of every one of the 60 Members in this place, not just those people that stand in the Government? 

I would like to see something where there can be a pragmatic approach, where UK Government levers add to what we're able to do, where we carry on with the agenda we already set out in our regional investment framework, and working with UK-wide frameworks, and also, at the same time, having regional partners where there is a sharing of power and responsibility to improve the economy of Wales. But that requires a fundamental change in the UK Government that will not happen with this current version of the UK Government, and that's why—and it's one of the many reasons—I look forward to the election of a UK Labour Government that will restore powers and resources to this Parliament and this Government.

I'm grateful to the Chair of the committee for the report. Paul Davies has always led the committee with a determination to hold governments to account and he should be congratulated on his leadership there. But the fundamental issue here, of course, is the collapse of Brexit, and the collapse of Brexit has already meant that we've seen European standards adopted for manufacturing here; UK standards dropped. The UK Government can't even implement its own agreement in terms of border checks and we've seen that the UK Government now associates itself with Horizon, which means that the European Union now will be determining the future of research capacity and research priorities in Wales. And all of that I welcome, and I welcome the approach that the Welsh Government has taken over the years to this.

Now, I will be joining the national rejoin the EU march on Saturday. Now, I won't expect to see the Minister on the other end of my banner, but what I will say—[Interruption.] You're very welcome to join me, you're very welcome to join me—both you Sams, were there last time. I know Paul was there as well—[Laughter.] But the point I was looking to make, Minister, was that the great Brexit robbery of Wales has fundamentally undermined our economy at a time when Brexit itself has undermined our productivity and our competitivity. Minister, will you and the Welsh Government continue to work towards ensuring that investment takes place in constituencies such as mine—one of the poorest in the country, and which has benefited enormously from European funding in the past—to ensure that we continue to prioritise some of the poorest and most deprived people in this country?

I thank the Member for his question. As he knows, I have previously been on marches in London when the question was very alive about an alternative to having the actual deal put before people. [Inaudible.]—helped people to get to London for that. I won't be joining him on Saturday. I have pre-existing commitments, both being a touchline dad, as my son takes the great and glorious path with Inter Penarth, and, indeed, with other colleagues in this room, I look forward to taking part in the UK Co-operative Party conference online as well.  

On your broader point, I think it's important to recognise that the Horizon association deal is good. It's good news for Wales, good news for the UK, good news for our institutions. I was with the board of UK Research and Innovation, who were having the board meeting in Cardiff last night and today, and they've been visiting both Cardiff and Swansea universities and what they're already doing in the research field, and everybody welcomes the association with Horizon. If it hadn't happened at this point, it may not have happened, actually, given the length of time of the programme.

And on your point around Brexit, it's pretty bewildering to have Lord Frost, the chief negotiator, at one point saying it's the greatest deal ever, then to say it's a terrible deal and it's all the Europeans' fault, and then to say we never expected to keep our version of the deal, and they intended to collapse it. Now, that's terrible, and regardless of the party that you stand in, actually, from the UK's point of view and our place within it, if you're going to highlight that you're not going to negotiate in good faith in international agreements, that is no basis for the certainty we need and the investment we want to see come into our economy, as well as seeing Welsh and UK firms having opportunities in other parts of the world. So, we need to do what we say we have signed up to, and that includes your point around investing in Valleys communities and other parts of Wales. We're committed to doing that. In fact, it's part of the work I've actually been undertaking with the capital region, and I know I've an outstanding commitment to the Member for the Cynon Valley and the group that she chairs to have a further conversation on what exactly we are doing, because I am determined that happens in all of the work that we do in the Government not just to see growth, but to see growth that actually levels up our country with the fairer, greener Wales we actually want to be.

Questions now from the party spokespeople. The first this afternoon is to be answered by the Deputy Minister. I call the Welsh Conservatives' spokesperson, Tom Giffard. 

Diolch yn fawr, Llywydd. Deputy Minister, the most recent statistics on visitor numbers here in Wales present great cause for concern. According to the international passenger survey data released by Visit Britain, there were 33 per cent fewer inbound visitors in Wales in 2022 than in 2019. The amount international visitors spent also dropped by 24 per cent, from £515 million in 2019 to £391 million in 2022. That's extremely concerning for a sector that provides one in seven jobs in Wales—that’s over 150,000 livelihoods at stake. So, do you share my concerns about the decline in Welsh visitor numbers and what actions are the Welsh Government taking to address that decline?

Well, I think—and thank you, Tom, for that question—you've been quite selective, actually, in your assessment of the situation. We had a debate on this not so long ago in this Chamber and we went through all of these statistics and I explained in some detail then that the vast majority of Welsh tourism is domestic tourism and it accounts for 90 per cent of visitors to Wales.

And, actually, what Visit Wales is now doing is looking at how we can attract more inward visitors. So, we are well aware that our inward visitors—our international visitors into Wales—is something we need to do more work on. We are doing that and, as I said in the debate last week with Janet Finch-Saunders, Visit Wales, as a result of their campaign to do just that, actually won the World Media Awards' grand prix prize, beating other major brands into a cocked hat around the development of that campaign to attract more inward visitors. So, I would like to think that, as time goes on, that campaign will bear some fruit. We're also working with our colleagues in Manchester to ensure that we get some linkages across from the north-west of England as well. So, we're not sat on our hands doing nothing about that, but I do think we need to be very, very clear about what these figures tell us, and they don't tell us that Wales's tourism industry is going down the pan.

What they do tell us, Deputy Minister, is that there are fewer people visiting Wales. The statistics are very clear about that, and I'm worried that we've got a Welsh Government that's more concerned about the awards it wins than the people it brings through the door to enjoy their time staying here in Wales. And obviously, cost will be one of those factors, but one of the costs the Welsh Government can control is the introduction of a tourism tax.

We know that there are areas in Wales that struggle with lots of tourists on busy days, but most are very often, at least in my part of the world, filled with day visitors rather then people staying overnight. The problem with the tourism tax, as proposed by the Welsh Government, is that it only targets those overnight visitors, when they spend up to 14 times more in the local economy and the tax does nothing for day visitors. So, what the Welsh Government is proposing here is actively undermining the very people who we want to be staying in Wales.

But if you're going to bring in a new tax like this, it's important that you bring the industry along with you, but that doesn't seem to have happened either. Important stakeholder groups, like the Professional Association of Self-Caterers and the Wales Tourism Alliance have opposed the tax. I know, Minister, that you even visited Bluestone, one of the premier tourism destinations in Wales, and I was lucky to go there over the summer with my colleague Sam Kurtz MS. But just a few days after your visit in May, Bluestone itself came out against the tourism tax, arguing that it would harm business. So, I'm concerned, Minister, and do you share my concerns that you've now lost the confidence of the tourism sector in Wales about the value that this tourism tax could provide?

Well, I thank you, Tom, for that second question, and I did wonder how long it would take you to get to the tourism levy, but let me just rewind and revisit your assumption about visitor figures. Between April and December 2021 and April and December 2022, there was an increase of 13 per cent in the volume of trips taken in Wales, and an increase of 35 per cent in that same period in 2022. There's been an increase in spend per trip across all of the GB nations and we saw an increase from January to March 2023, with estimated figures showing that there was something in the region of 1.74 million trips taken and a spend of £341 million in Wales in the first three months of 2023. So, far from being a problem for us at the moment, I think we are seeing some very positive figures. 

I met with the Visitor Economy Forum just yesterday in fact, and they were far more upbeat and positive about what is happening in Wales, I'm afraid, than you are, Tom, and than your party is. And I would reiterate what I said to you in the debate last week: if you are going to continue to talk Wales down, what you will continue to do is drive visitors away from Wales and we're doing the complete opposite.

Now, in terms of the tourism levy, you can keep banging on about the tourism levy as much as you like, but I will keep repeating what I've said to you previously: the tourism levy was a manifesto commitment of ours and we're applying that manifesto commitment. We are talking regularly with the visitor economy sector, who by and large are now accepting of the position, and are working with us to develop it. And for you to keep going on about the tourism levy as harming tourism in Wales is really nonsense; it hasn't even been introduced yet, so it can't be having any impact on tourism in Wales.

And again I will say as I've said before, and I know that other colleagues in the Chamber have said the same: like many colleagues, I was fortunate enough to have a European holiday over the summer, and I paid a tourism tax. I paid a tourism tax for every night I stayed in Italy. I was at the Rugby World Cup the weekend before last: I paid a tourism tax in Bordeaux; I paid a tourism tax in Paris. Not once did I say, 'I'm never going to go to these places again because they're levying a tourism tax.'

The question of daytime levies is not currently on our agenda; we are looking at overnight visitors, which is the most popular model, but these things are always open for consideration at any given point in time.

Doesn't it say it all about the ambition of this Government that they're bragging about an increase compared to the early stages of 2021, a time where they closed down the tourism economy here in Wales, and what we've seen since then is a modest increase since that time? [Interruption.] Now, listen: I understand the need for COVID—. I understand the need for COVID—[Interruption.] I understand the need for COVID restrictions, and it's very unbecoming of the Minister—[Interruption.] I understand the need for COVID restrictions, as many of us did, but to compare those figures to a time when the tourism economy in Wales was literally shut down by the Government shows the lack of ambition that this Government's got for our tourism economy in Wales.

We already know that there is widespread opposition to this tax. We're nearly two and a half years now into this Senedd term and we still don't have any clarity on exactly how this tourism tax is set to be used. We've heard comrades in Plaid Cymru call for this money to be spent on free school meals. Now, the merits of that are for another day, but they don't exactly match up with your stated aim that the money would be spent in the tourism sector alone. I know the First Minister yesterday enjoyed giving me a one-word 'yes' or 'no' answer, so I'm happy if you want to give me the same clarity. Will you give a cast-iron guarantee that when this tax is introduced, councils will have to spend it on improving their tourism offer, and they won't be able to replace their existing tourism budgets with the proceeds of this tax?

I think the point is—. Let's deal with your first point first: the first point first is that some of these figures are compared to 2019, not 2020, the visitor figures, and they're comparing with 2021 and 2022, and 2023, which is after lockdown, and it's a year-on-year comparison. So, it generally helps if you get your facts right before you stand on your feet and talk about stuff like that.

But in terms of the tourism levy and how it will be spent, what we have said is that absolutely we will be working with the sector to develop how best that levy is spent, and part of the discussion that we are having with them is how we could look at ring-fencing the levy to do the kinds of things that you were talking about. I see no circumstances whereby a tourism levy would not be used for anything other than improving the tourism offer that is available in any particular area, and mitigating the impact on communities where those are there. But those decisions are still yet to be taken because we are still having the discussion with the tourism sector, as you consistently tell us that we should be doing, and that is what we are doing. And when we have reached an agreement with the tourism sector on exactly how this is going to play out, then of course, there will be a statement brought to this Chamber and you will hear about it first.

Plaid Cymru spokesperson, Luke Fletcher.

I think it's fair to say that 2023 has been a fairly tough one in terms of news for the economy Minister. We had the announcement at Tata on Friday, roughly 3,000 jobs potentially at risk; 2 Sisters in Llangefni, over 700 jobs lost; Avara Foods, Abergavenny, 400 jobs lost; Tillery Valley Foods, 250 jobs lost; and Biomet in Bridgend, 540 jobs at risk. This, of course, against a backdrop of the longest squeeze on wages since the Napoleonic wars, according to the Trades Union Congress, with young people unable to buy their own homes, unable to afford rent, and families unable to put food on the table or heat their homes. I've raised several times with the economy Minister my concerns, my very real concerns, about young people considering a future elsewhere, and I genuinely believe that we are facing large numbers of young people leaving Wales or ditching ambitions altogether. We know, for example, that both the Australian and New Zealand Governments are targeting ads at young people. I've seen those ads pop up on my own social media over the summer. Has the Government woken up to this, and where does he see things going in the next six months?

We haven't needed to be woken up, because it's been very clear since I became the economy Minister that it's part of the economic mission about young people planning a successful future here in Wales, both young people from Wales and those people who want to come to Wales. If you think about where we are now, it's a city that is a younger city than London, overall. It's got a significant graduate population. That's part of the reason why lots of businesses are looking to locate here in Cardiff, and it's also part of the reason why there is a higher business growth for new businesses in Cardiff than in other parts of the UK.

And that story is one that I want to see not just told in the Cardiff region, but across Wales as well. That's why I made the points I was making in earlier questions about a partnership with regions across Wales, to understand where there are distinct opportunities and how we get behind those opportunities with partners in those regions. Those are both businesses and wider stakeholders as well, and of course local authorities with their regional partners. So, you'll see different opportunities in north-west and north-east Wales to what you'll see in south-east Wales or, indeed, west Wales as well. That's what I'm keen that we do.

And, actually, the more recent data does show that there has been some tightening and a slight rise in unemployment in Wales. But, actually, we still do well compared to UK figures. I know there have been really difficult events. I'm very well aware of the challenges of a number of the firms that the Member has raised, but we are still facing a position where there are still jobs within the economy looking for people to fill them. My concern is how we get not just more jobs, but better jobs for our people, and that's why I want to equip people with the skills that they need for the future.  

Of course, he mentions Cardiff; there's more to Wales than just Cardiff, and I recall a Welsh Government publication highlighting low wages in Cardiff as a reason to invest in Cardiff.

Now, on keeping young people here, there's no better place to start than with the green economy. If we think about the need to transition to a greener economy, the need for green skills will only grow. Now, where there are job losses, the ReAct programme is understandably the go-to for the Minister, but I would be interested in the success rate of ReAct in finding new jobs for those using the programme at the same level of wages and workplace conditions as the jobs that they left. And how is the programme reacting to the challenge of net zero? Of those new jobs found, how many are actually in the green economy?

Beyond ReAct, it's proving difficult to fully understand the Government's strategy for embedding green skills within the Welsh workforce. Further education institutions still remain unsure as to what the Government means when it talks about green skills. Tata has shown us, hasn't it? It has shown us that a just transition is no longer a concept. It's here now, and Tata is just the tip of the iceberg.

Well, let's start with the first point the Member made in response. I don't think beating up Cardiff is a sensible way to go about trying to grow the economy. And actually, in my response, I didn't just talk about Cardiff. There are challenges and opportunities in the north-east, north-west, south-east Wales and west Wales as well, and we're keen to work with partners to see those realised. 

On the challenge about how we provide greater and more effective employability support, you'll know from the employability and skills plan that we're looking to gather together the different interventions we have. That requires us, again, to work with different partners to look at what we're doing directly here in the Government, what local authorities are doing and, indeed, to try to understand if there's going to be a change in direction from the Department for Work and Pensions. We want as coherent an offer as possible for people who are needing to reskill. 

And on your challenge about whether further education colleges understand what we're doing, I don't think that's an accurate reflection of where FE colleges are. It's certainly not the conversation I've had with them. But, actually, in the net-zero skills plan, we set out that we're going to need to have a clearer understanding for different sectors about what the skills needs are going to be, how much of that we can anticipate now, how much of that we need to build, and to do that across sectors that have significant emissions challenges but also areas where there are opportunities. And as that goes through, you can expect to see more of the detail in that work through the rest of this year and into the next one.

I mean what I say about the future of our economy: more jobs and better jobs to take advantage of the opportunities that arise and not to wait for things to happen to us. That's why I'm keen on areas where Wales really can be strong, whether that's offshore wind technology, advanced manufacturing, compound semiconductors, or even new nuclear technology in the future as well. I want to see us take advantage of those and have real priorities to give people that realistic hope that you can plan a really positive future here in Wales, and we want young people to stay here as well as to come here to be part of our future story.

Question 3 [OQ59927] is withdrawn. 

Thank you. We're working hard to deliver our programmes and initiatives to support high streets, including in Islwyn. For example, our Transforming Towns programme is providing £125 million to local authorities over three years and is targeted at addressing the decline in some of our town and city centres.

Thank you, Minister. On Sunday, Wilko's Blackwood store closed its doors for the final time, following the company's financial collapse. In a capitalist economy, ultimately it is private business and the marketplace that dictate how business is transacted and which businesses succeed. Paul Butterworth, chief executive officer of Chambers Wales, was recently quoted as saying:

'The retail picture...reflects the state of high street challenges in every region of Wales and the UK...one in six high street businesses in Wales have ceased trading, equating to a drop in 16% of Welsh high street businesses no longer trading.'

Minister, this is often coupled with high-visibility landmarks, such as our national banks, building societies and post offices, closing down their physical branches and doors on the British high street. This is a fact, and it's from our experts, and obviously the party opposite are allergic to some of that.

Minister, Blackwood is one of Gwent's major towns, and BBC Wales Today came to the town to analyse the impact of the COVID pandemic and the cost-of-living crisis on retail. Labour's Caerphilly County Borough Council continues to do all it can to support Blackwood high street, recently supporting a family summer festival in Blackwood, aimed to help high-street trade, and on just one day of this initiative, 8,000 people packed out Blackwood high street—a direct result. Minister, what further actions and representations can this Welsh Government take, and what is the Welsh Government's ambition to fulfil the people's desire for our high streets to remain a vibrant, living, sustainable marketplace for communities across Wales?

Thank you for the follow-up question. Our ambitions for high streets in Wales are set out both in our retail action plan and in the town centre position statement. What should give us more positivity about what is possible is that in a number of areas that are analogous to Blackwood, you can see high streets and town centres that have been revitalised. That's both about understanding what the mission of that town centre is, the size and the scale of it, and how to have a balance between chains but also independent retailers, and that mix of housing, retail, planning and local transport, to enable all of that to happen. That's why I'm proud that we have put the money in that we have into 'town centre first', and it's also why, alongside our Transforming Towns programme, we continue to provide a rates support package over the next two financial years, which means we're investing £460 million into those businesses.

The challenge, then, is about how we persuade people about the changes that have been made to their lives, and how people have made permanent changes in their world of work. This actually could be a good thing for a number of our smaller town centres, with a balance between home work and hybrid work with people undertaking more of their lives in their local centre and not constantly travelling to much larger population centres. There's much that's still there in flux, but we'll carry on working with businesses, their organisations and, indeed, local authorities. I think Caerphilly have a good track record in wanting to support their local businesses, and we'll work alongside them to do just that.

Minister, in May this year, as you just mentioned to my colleague Rhianon Passmore, you published the Welsh Government's retail action plan. Some of its aims, as you mentioned, include reducing town centre vacant premises and boosting footfall in high streets and town centres. Earlier this month it was revealed that one in six shops on Welsh high streets are indeed empty. Figures show that the rate of empty shops in Wales rose from 16.5 per cent to 17 per cent in the second quarter of 2023. It was also revealed that Newport, my home town and part of my region of south-east Wales, actually had more empty units than any other city in the United Kingdom. So, Minister, given what I've just outlined, just how successful has this action plan been so far? Has it hit its KPIs, also known as key performance indicators? And are you confident that this plan is actually going to work? Thank you.

I think the retail action plan will make a difference. It's been designed together with the industry and the Welsh Retail Consortium, together with trade unions, led by USDAW, and that's meant that we've got a shared view on what the future could and should look like. I think trying to pronounce on the success of the plan months after it's been launched is not a sensible exercise if you want to be serious about the future of our town centres. We do know that the challenges around the cost of living and the cost of doing business, and the challenges around inflation, have led to a number of businesses not being able to survive and others that are not as optimistic as they would have been at the start of the year. But it also reinforces why we need to carry on with that partnership approach and to recognise, as indeed Rhianon Passmore did, that local authorities have a key role and a key interest in seeing those town centres continue to be successful. That will involve, for some of them, remodelling what they do, the size and the scale of them, to make sure they're still vibrant. Because I think it also goes into a sense of place—a sense of place about where you're from and what you're proud of. And it's also why, for example, a range of other services will continue to be important. For example, the continued investment that my colleague the health Minister makes in high-street optometry will be really important for maintaining footfall in our town and city centres. So, it's more than just one department—it's a whole-Government approach, and we look forward to working with our partners to see that success in towns right across Wales.

Lease negotiations regarding the future of Gilestone Farm are ongoing. The Welsh Government does not disclose the details of confidential commercial discussions whilst they are ongoing.

Thank you, Minister, for your answer. As part of the ongoing negotiations, you've said on a number of occasions in the Chamber that you will be consulting with the community. I held a public meeting on 8 June, which you and your officials declined to attend. I subsequently wrote to you on 13 June with a list of questions from members of my community with genuine concerns about the proposals. I chased up for a reply to that letter on 12 July, and I'm yet, to date, to receive a reply to that letter. Minister, it's not good enough waiting three months and a week to get a reply from your department on a matter that you have promised proactive engagement on. So, can you please tell me today when am I going to receive a reply to that letter? Or shall I go and tell my constituents this is yet again another broken promise by the economy Minister on his offer of proactive engagement with my communities? Diolch, Llywydd.

Actually, my officials have continued to engage with both the community council and the local community. It's simply not true to claim that there has been no engagement with the local community.

When it comes to the public meeting you held, of course, I was extraordinarily disappointed that claims were made at that meeting that you were only aware that Welsh Government officials and I would not be attending on the day of the meeting. It was very clear in the answer the First Minister gave in the Chamber to you, and in the conversation we had outside the Chamber, that I would not be attending. There's a point here that goes back to comments made by the Llywydd at the start of this session about the nature of the debate we have, conducting it with respect, but also with some integrity. And I hope that you correct the misleading and inaccurate impression that was given.

We will carry on engaging with the local community. We'll carry on being honest with the community about what those plans mean. We'll carry on having a negotiation, because I think this is another example of—. If we can have a successful agreement with a company that is a strong brand—Green Man has a value of over £10 million with its annual event—and if we can secure more of their operation of a different type at this site, then I believe it will be part, again, in this part of Wales, of giving people the opportunity to plan a successful economic future within their local community that works with people in that community, and gets away from some of the scaremongering that has gone on about the potential proposal. I look forward to what I hope will be a successful conclusion to those negotiations.

Thank you. Post-EU funding schemes are underfunded by at least £1.1 billion, and have been beset by UK Government delays and chaotic implementation. This has put local authorities under huge pressure. This is now damaging key sectors of our economy, resulting in the closure of vital business, innovation and skills programmes, and directly costing jobs for Wales.

Thank you for your answer, Minister. You'll be aware that the economy committee has just completed our inquiry into post-EU funding, and found that Wales's economic success is at risk if a new approach to allocating these resources isn't adopted. We've called for greater involvement from the Welsh Government in their planning and roll-out, but, as you will be only too aware, this is something that the UK Government seem hellbent on preventing. Keir Starmer has promised that an incoming Westminster Labour Government would return powers over this funding to Wales. Do you agree with me that that's the best way of ensuring this funding is used to meet the needs of communities, such as the one that I represent in Cynon Valley?

It's absolutely the right approach to take. Those powers should never have been stolen from Wales in the first place. We should never have received the funding cut that directly broke Conservative manifesto promises. And that is in line with what the cross-party committee has reported here, and, indeed, cross-party committees within the House of Commons itself. We want to have a partnership with a responsible UK Government where devolved powers are exercised here, and, where we can, in partnership with UK Government levers as well. We want a partnership with the regions here in Wales to make sure we carry on delivering real economic benefit and investment in a landscape that is coherent, and not deliberately splintered and undermining in the way that it has been so far. That would actually provide not just responsibilities for the Government here, but also make sure that scrutiny rests where it should do within this Parliament for the Wales-wide programmes that we should have a say in, and indeed working alongside our partners in local government. 

Minister, we need to be cautious not to look back on the days of EU funding through rose-tinted glasses. Funding streams such as the rural development programme were no guarantee of money being spent efficiently or in the right place. This can be evidenced through the Wales Audit Office findings from 2020 that the Welsh Government had not taken appropriate action to ensure value for money on nearly half of the awards made. Whilst there is scope for improving the shared prosperity fund, would you agree that there is a positive future ahead for post-EU funding, as demonstrated by the evidence gathered by the Economy, Trade and Rural Affairs Committee's inquiry? For example, Labour's Monmouthshire council stated, and I quote, that UK Government officials were 'very supportive', and had 'good lines of communication', and Plaid-run Gwynedd Council stated that they had developed a relationship that is 'quite good' with the UK Government. Diolch, Llywydd.

I think you'll find, if you read the whole view from local government, they're certainly not supportive of the UK Government coming in and running programmes directly, circumventing the Welsh Government, and, indeed, reducing the funds available. There's always a challenge here when Conservative Members say they want to celebrate the shared prosperity fund. They never acknowledge the fact that Wales has been short-changed by over £1 billion, and I refuse to join the Welsh Tories in celebrating that money being taken away from Wales. When you look at lessons that have been learnt, and if you go and look at some of the work that Paul Davies has done in the past as well, we have learnt from the different iterations of European funds. What's actually happened is, rather than going towards a more strategic approach that we chose to take in the last round of European funds, the shared prosperity fund is actually an annualised pepper-pot approach that undoes all of the work that we had done through learning from the first round of Objective 1, as it then was. This will lead to a poorer spend of a smaller sum of money. I actually think that when you come back to look at this objectively, there will not be a great deal for you to be proud of in the way that the money has not just been taken away from us, but then been respent in a much poorer way, for much poorer value for your community as well as mine.

The largest economic benefit is that there will be fewer people killed or seriously injured from road collisions. The change is also expected to strengthen local economies through increased footfall and could lead to higher land values and retail spending.

Thank you for that answer, Minister. This week, Labour's money-making blanket 20 mph speed limit scheme has come into force, and the public's concerns firmly remain, with nearly 270,000 people signing a petition to have the policy reversed. I've heard from many businesses over the last few weeks and days in the run-up to the scheme's introduction, including a parcel delivery firm. They have been looking into the extra costs they face as a result of this Government's unwanted 20 mph—

I can't hear the Member, so the Minister may be struggling as well. I do need to hear the Member's point. 

[Inaudible.]

You'd love that, wouldn't you, Alun Davies?

Can the Member carry on—thank you—and be allowed to carry on?

Thank you so much. Minister, I've heard from many businesses over the last few weeks and days in the run-up to the scheme's introduction, including a parcel delivery firm. They've been looking into the extra costs that they face as a result of this Government's unwanted 20 mph speed limit project. Taking into account things like extra maintenance costs and the impact slower speeds will have, the total for this one company comes to £1.6 million. And this business is not alone; taxi drivers are extremely fearful for the loss of income, as they expect to see a drop in the number of trips that they can make in a day. If the Welsh Government continues to ignore residents' calls and refuses to reverse this disastrous policy, will you look at creating a hardship fund to compensate businesses for the loss of income and to cover their extra costs? It is incredibly unfair that hard-working businesses are being made to suffer as a result of this policy, which they did not want, do not want, and are being forced into by Labour Ministers here in Cardiff Bay. 

As the Member knows, this is not a blanket ban. It's always unfortunate when people make knowingly untruthful statements. It is not a blanket ban. It is also the delivery of a manifesto commitment that people in Wales did vote for. People voted for this in our manifesto. I note that the Conservative leader's poll, on his own Twitter account, actually demonstrated that some people are actually quite pleased with this policy. I don't accept the veracity of the figures for a policy that has been implemented for just a handful of days now. I look forward to a longer term review and, of course, we are committed to reviewing the impact of the new proposals that have been introduced. Local authorities will review what's happened; I look forward to the input. And I can honestly say, as a parent, I'm much happier for my son to be out and about on his bike and moving around our roads with a change in speed limit. I think it'll make a big difference to how all of us see the future, and, actually, not just the health outcomes that we have been able to assess, but to think about what it means, if you listen to a range of our teachers, who have said, 'The children walking or cycling to school—they're more likely to be alert and active, ready to learn at the start of the day.' There are longer term health benefits, and, actually, those health benefits have a real impact on our economic future as well. I think we're doing the right thing, and I think, in a year or two's time, people will look back and wonder who on earth thought this was a bad idea.

Our Business Wales service provides businesses with access to a range of information, guidance and support, both financial and non-financial, to consider their productivity and skills. This is supported through a range of our skills and employability programmes that can offer direct support to businesses.

Thank you, Minister. Minister, the NatWest business activity index paints a very concerning picture for Wales, as the number of outstanding businesses in private firms is on a downward trajectory. Despite the data highlighting an increase in output, the devil really is in the detail, with this increase being a result of backlog clearing, as opposed to increasing new work. However, to get to the root cause of this issue of productivity, we need to look no further than this year's business barometer, which highlights that 75 per cent of Welsh business leaders are experiencing skills shortages, which is directly impacting on productivity. Minister, you touched on skills, but what urgent action is being taken to improve that skills shortage in Wales, to prevent things getting worse here?

Well, actually, it's partly about the take-up of the programmes we already have, as well as going back to earlier questions about areas for future growth as well. And it's why a partnership with businesses really does matter, both between local authorities and the individual businesses within their area, as well as larger organisations bringing different business groups together. So, the challenge on skills is something that we understand. It's also why the confused landscape, with the policy intervention from the UK Government, has undermined what was a much clearer picture. It's made it less strategic as well. I want to see that knitted back together in a way that is genuinely strategic and gives greater certainty to businesses about what we're doing.

We do of course have good examples of where productivity has increased, and, indeed, people who live in the Member's constituency will have benefited from that. There's the business productivity enhancement programme that's taking place within the south-east Wales region, and in particular centred around Tech Valleys, there are at least 12 firms in Blaenau Gwent, Torfaen and Caerphilly that have had investments to help reskill their workforce, and a number of those firms will have, as I say, people living in the Member's constituency. The challenge is always the scale of what we're able to do, broader confidence in the economy, and the certainty of what we're able to do and not having a confused picture for businesses to actually be able to select from and understand the support that is available to them.

And finally, question 9, Llyr Gruffydd.

Thank you for the question.

This is of course extremely disappointing news, which will be extraordinarily concerning for staff at Wilko. We're working with a range of partners, including Working Wales and Jobcentre Plus, to support those affected, through programmes like ReAct+.

Thank you for what you have just said. Clearly, towns like Holyhead, Llandudno, Wrexham and Rhyl are facing losing Wilko stores that have either closed or are about to close. We heard earlier how that leaves a gap on the high street, and that undermines the broader viability of some of those urban centres. But from the perspective of the workers particularly, you referred to the programmes and support available. What assurance can you give, despite how difficult it is, that the budgets for those programmes will be safeguarded in the coming years, because we hear of the cuts happening within Government, but we hear week on week, session after session here about the support that is needed when Tata, Wilko and the list provided by Luke Fletcher do arise? There is a risk, of course, that, in reducing that support, the impact will be so much worse. So, what assurances can you give that those budgets will be protected wherever possible? 

I think I can give the Member the assurance that in areas where we'll need to support workers, we'll have the means to do so. The Wilko example is particularly difficult, as Poundland and B&M between them bought around 120 stores, but we're not sure where all those locations are yet. So, that's real uncertainty for lots of workers in Wales and across the rest of the UK and, indeed, the distribution centre in John Griffiths's constituency, which is closing.

So, I can give the Member the assurance that on that demand-led programme of the support required, I think we're able to support workers who need it. And for the future, as the economy Minister, I must be prepared to move budgets across my department to make sure workers are properly supported. Some workers in trade union-organised workplaces may well be able to secure arrangements, if that business is closing or shrinking, that provides them with a package that gives them a better cushion and access to skills support. Wilko workers—lower paid workers, typically—but also to think about the scale of the trade union organisation, there may be a greater call on Welsh Government support for them. That's the commitment I'd like to give the Member and, indeed, constituents across the country that I think we have the support available now, and I'm prepared to act to make sure that support is available in the future if we see larger unemployment events.

Thank you, Minister and Deputy Minister. 

The next item will be the questions to the Minister for Health and Social Services, and the first question is from Janet Finch-Saunders. 

Yes, thanks. Betsi Cadwaladr University Health Board is responsible for its own catheter strategy. I expect them to follow guidance, such as the unplanned admissions consensus committee’s Welsh best practice guide. They are supported with national initiatives, including procurement contracts, and the development of standardised catheter care bundles and an all-Wales catheter passport.

Thank you, Minister. I'd be really grateful if you could possibly write out again, pointing them to this particular initiative, because I've had many concerns raised with me recently about families attending hospital and seeing catheter bags almost overflowing. You've rightly pointed out in January 2018 that BCHU launched the Safe Clean Care campaign and at that time, again, it was a request to the late and lovely chairman, Peter Higson, who actually raised it with hospitals that they had to be really meticulous in their handling of catheter bags. In 2021 the health board went further by offering a special passport to enhance communication and catheter care for almost 2,000 people who rely on these things. To this day, though, there remains massive stigma about catheter use, concerns that drainage bags are not always emptied promptly, and more recently it's been raised with me that catheters are not changed—the pipes—within the recommended four to 12-week time frame, often several weeks later. So, what steps will you take, Minister, to ensure that catheters are changed according to those very guidelines, that bags are emptied promptly, and that there is more work undertaken on tackling stigma in north Wales? Thank you. 

Thanks very much. I will remind the health board of the Welsh best practice in relation to catheters and what we're looking at, and what is expected of them. What I can tell you is that one in five patients in the NHS have a catheter, and that costs about £145 million in terms of community care. So, we're talking about a lot of people here who are in this situation. I understand that Betsi Cadwaladr has had a Getting It Right First Time review on their urology services, and all relevant units within Betsi Cadwaladr will be now developing a trial without catheter pathway for more expeditious assessments of patients with urinary retention.

We have a cross-departmental approach to addressing inequalities in cancer risk, inequalities in access to cancer services and inequalities in cancer outcome. As well as a cross-Government approach to addressing the determinants of health, such as poverty and a healthy environment.

Diolch, Gweinidog. In the valleys where I'm from a lung cancer diagnosis is something many people dread, and it's more prevalent in my area because of the long shadow that coal mining and heavy industry still casts over our communities. Now, cancer is often diagnosed at a later stage and people are at greater risk of dying as a result. In Caerphilly 101 people died from the disease in 2021, which is 6.3 per cent higher than the national average. Now, tools like lung screening can help diagnose cancer earlier, improving the chances for people living in areas not just in Caerphilly, but across the south-east of Wales, that are so often referred to as deprived, which is a word I really dislike, but it means that people are denied so many opportunities—in this context, denied the chance of living longer if they get this disease. Would you give an update, please, on plans to roll out a full lung screening programme in Wales, and will you commit to rolling out a fully funded programme to ensure that lung cancer can be diagnosed as early as possible?

Thanks very much. Well, what we do know is that around four in 10 cancers are potentially preventable, and lung cancer is definitely one of those. The incidence of smoking, we know, is higher in those communities that you talk about. So, there's a stage before that that we need to get to. We do need to concentrate and focus our efforts on trying to stop people from smoking in the first place so they don't develop cancer. So, I think it's really important, when we talk about cancer, to look at the whole system and make sure we don't forget about the prevention side of things. 

Now, of course, what we need to do then is to make sure that, if that develops, and the outcomes for lung cancer—. It's very difficult, because you seem to find it quite late, and once you get to that point it's more difficult to treat. So, early diagnosis is really important. One of the programmes we've got at the moment is a really interesting initiative that focuses on lung cancer, and we've chosen lung cancer as the first cancer to go after because of the poor rates of people who actually can recover from it, and that's in relation to liquid biopsies. So, we've specifically gone after liquid biopsies in relation to cancer treatment and just trying to identify who has it, how early you get it, if you get it back after you've contracted it. So, there's a lot of work being done in that space. It's quite a cutting-edge technology that we're looking at here. What I'm interested in is just to wait until we see the outcomes of that pilot, because what that would mean is that we're looking at a much less invasive mechanism of working out whether people have lung cancer. So, I hope that that kind of initiative is something that, once we know whether it has worked properly, we can roll out. 

Minister, one of the greatest inequalities in cancer care is the revelation that we are not collecting data on the ethnicity of cancer patients. Many might say, 'Why does that matter—it is just data?', but when it comes to treatment that data is vital. How do we know that treatments developed for white northern Europeans are effective in treating cancers in patients of African or Indo-Asian descent? Assumptions are being made about how patients will respond, despite there being clear differences in how certain cancers affect different racial groups. Minister, what steps are the Welsh Government taking to ensure ethnicity data is included in all patient records, particularly as we move toward personalised medicine?

Thanks very much. I was very interested to read some of the findings of the cross-party group on cancer and on the inequalities of cancer, and certainly data is absolutely key. That's certainly something that we're always trying to improve—how we manage our data, how we monitor our data—and ethnicity is something, certainly, we'll need to consider. What interests me, as we get into this new, more individualised response to how we deal with cancer, so responding to the particular cancer in that particular individual—. We're right on the threshold of something very, very different I think, in terms of the way we deal with cancer in future. I read recently, for example, that the way that some people respond to chemotherapy changes due to the different biomes in their stomach; everybody's got a different biome. So, this individualised approach will be developing in future years, and, obviously, ethnicity, all of those kinds of things, hopefully, will be a consideration when we move to the next phase of how we deal with cancer. And let's not forget that this is all going to be very challenging. You know the financial situation we're in, we know that one in two people develop cancer, and that, as people get older, their chances of getting cancer is going to increase, so none of this is going to be cheap, so we have some really serious challenges ahead of us.

Minister, in our more deprived communities in Wales, the rates of obesity are still too high. Overweight and obesity prevalence is higher in the most deprived quintile compared to the least deprived quintile in Wales, by the 2021-22 figures. And in findings by Cancer Research UK, in their cancer inequalities report, it states that, if current trends continue, the projections are that there will be almost as many obese people as people of a healthy weight in Wales by the 2040s. We know that maintaining a healthy weight is one of the best ways to minimise the risk of developing cancer. So, Minister, what more can Welsh Government do to tackle obesity levels and the related incidence of cancer in our more deprived communities?

Well, thanks very much. This is very much something that my colleague Lynne Neagle leads on, and, certainly, the work that the Welsh Government is doing to try and set out a vision for a smoke-free Wales, making sure that we get a better result in terms of increasing the proportion of children and young people who have a smoke-free childhood. And there's some work being done on e-cigarettes, and of course we had that announcement recently in terms of what we're hoping to do in relation to that.

But you're quite right. I'm particularly concerned about obesity. I think we've got to start talking about this in a really serious way. We're nearing a crisis in relation to this. And this is not something that is going to happen in 2040—60 per cent of people in Wales are overweight or obese now. So, this can't wait any longer. I think there's a whole strategy that has been published, which has all been tested in terms of how we best connect with people. Because if you just go and knock them on the head, and say, 'Don't be so ridiculous, you need to lose weight', that's not going to work. We have to do this in a way that looks at the behavioural science, what is it that changes this.

And the other issue that I've been reading a lot about over the summer is in relation to ultra-processed foods. And I seriously think that this is an area—. It's very difficult for us as just the Welsh Government to deal with this. That's why I'm very saddened to see that the UK Government is not taking this as seriously as I think it should do, because, ideally, we need to do this across the United Kingdom—it would be much, much easier. But there's a whole raft of work that my colleague Lynne Neagle is working on at the moment in relation to making sure we look at those broader issues, making sure, for example, that it's less easy to get access to the kinds of foods that are harmful. It's been very interesting; recently, I've been doing a lot of school visits around Wales, junior school visits. And I've read that 20 per cent of our pupils go into school at the age of five overweight—go into school. But what's been really interesting for me is the contrast between what I've heard and what I've seen in Mid and West Wales schools, where I'm not seeing that pattern in quite the same way. And I think we've got to ask questions about is that because of the availability of food on every street corner. So, we've got to consider all those kinds of things, and that's certainly something that Lynne Neagle, I know, is working on.

Questions now from the party spokespeople. Conservative spokesperson, Gareth Davies. 

Diolch, Llywydd, and good afternoon, Ministers. Most people in Wales will be acutely aware of the horrific serial killer who took the lives of infants just over the border from north-east Wales in the Countess of Chester. Lucy Letby, from a position of responsibility and care, abused her position to gain access to vulnerable infants, trying to kill 18 babies, succeeding in the murder of eight of them. People across Wales will be concerned as to whether this could happen here. The UK Government are carrying out a review, but what about Wales? Are there lessons that we can learn?

I note the written statement by the Welsh Government this lunch time on the speaking up safely process, but are the procedures in place in our Welsh NHS, and does the Minister think they are robust enough to deal with a similar situation were it to happen here in Wales?

Well, thanks very much. I think we were all very troubled by the Lucy Letby situation, and, certainly, what I know is that our officials—. The director general of the NHS has written out to all of the health boards to make sure that they understand that there is now a duty of candour that was introduced as a result of the Health and Social Care (Quality and Engagement) (Wales) Act in 2020, and that we make sure that we strengthen the 'Putting Things Right' process. So, that duty applies to all NHS organisations, to make sure that quality-driven decisions improve the quality of health services in Wales. So, we have issued that framework for speaking up safely earlier than planned, but, as soon as we heard about the Lucy Letby incidents, then a letter was sent out to health boards.

Thank you for that response, Minister, and I appreciate it's a difficult situation to talk about, but one that shouldn't be ignored in ensuring the safety of people in the future in Wales, and I appreciate the response to my written question over the summer recess, to the same tune as your response.

Now, I understand and accept that, following the UK Government's inquiry into the Lucy Letby situation, you have expressed an interest in taking the findings and making changes as appropriate, as you've mentioned. This is welcome, but it is likely to be years down the line before you even begin to analyse the findings and make those changes. Is the Welsh Government considering any immediate lessons to be learned, in addition to your response, that apply here in Wales? My view is that the clear lesson is one of greater protections and more respect for whistleblowers. As many people in the profession will know—and as I know coming from that working background—there can be a culture of ostracisation and embarrassment for those who dare to speak up.

So, with that in mind, Minister, do you believe it's necessary, acceptable or right that third sector charities, such as Protect in this instance, should be administering internal NHS complaints on their behalf, rather than the NHS itself, which makes reference to that fact on page 16 of the report?

Well, thanks very much. We have been working on the speaking up safely framework for a number of months. So, this was way pre the Lucy Letby case coming to court. And that's been developed in partnership with the trade unions, and making sure that people who work in the NHS know that that is going to be a framework that works for them, where they feel safe, that they can come forward and that they know there will be protection for them. So, what we've done is we've published that, and what we will do is to keep that under active review for the next 12 months, to ensure it remains fit for purpose. And, obviously, if something comes out of lessons learnt during the inquiry into the Lucy Letby case, then, obviously, we will consider those in that review. 

Thank you again, Minister, and I do appreciate the Welsh Government's ambition in dealing with this situation. But I think the key thing to achieve is for that to permeate onto the front line, so it's not just an ambition that's spoken about, obviously, in the Senedd and in Government circles, but something that's felt throughout the entire Welsh NHS system. 

Finally, my final question is a steer away from my initial line of questioning. It's the Welsh Conservatives' view that we need to work with all 22 councils here in Wales to ensure that no child slips through the net and all children obtain the maximum level of care, as the people of Wales rightly expect. Does the Minister agree with me that Wales is the nation of the UK most at risk of serious failings, like we saw with Logan Mwangi and like we saw with Kaylea Titford, because we are the only part of the UK to have not undertaken a children's services review across the 22 local authorities? Why should Wales accept your word that the system is robust? We need clarity. And does the Minister, finally, agree with me that it's about time for a Wales-wide children's services review? 

The Minister will have to take the question. She's started now.

Thank you. 

Just for the record, both myself and the Ministers were expecting the question to be in a subject area for the Deputy Minister to answer. That wasn't the case, and the Minister, thankfully, stood, so—[Inaudible.]

I had health and social services—.

So, the Minister will continue with the answer to the final question. 

Thanks very much. Well, Julie Morgan is very much the expert in this area, so it would be more appropriate for her to answer this. What I can tell you is that we are very aware of the tragic cases that have happened in Wales, that we're learning lessons from those. There are lots of lessons to be learnt and what we're trying to do is to implement those lessons. That's the priority: to make sure that we implement them and embed them. Rather than have another review, let's get on with the work that we know has to be done. 

Plaid Cymru spokesperson, Mabon ap Gwynfor. 

Thank you, Llywydd. Over the past five years, expenditure on agency staff has increased enormously. Now, Welsh health boards spend £325 million, over 7 per cent of workforce costs, with £225 million of that as a direct result of vacant posts and failure to recruit. In north Wales, the health board spent £30 million on agency staff back in 2018, but, today, that figure has more than doubled to £72 million. In reality, this reflects the failure to provide the workforce with favourable terms and conditions. The Minister will be aware that Plaid Cymru has been calling on the Welsh Government to introduce a workforce plan that would commit to phasing out agency staff over four years, because we're taking money from the health service and giving it to private companies, and it's earned on the back of the hard work of a committed workforce and that's unjust. In a response to a question from me last week, the Minister said that we will see expenditure on agency staff falling this year, giving an assurance, in her own words, that we would see a fall in the number of agency staff this year. Now, perhaps the Minister will have already seen some figures. So, can the Minister expand on that assurance? What's the timetable for this? And what changes will she be implementing to reach that point? 

Thank you. 

I think it's really important to recognise that the NHS Wales will always need some flexibility when it comes to workforce capacity. That's partly because we need to make sure that we have safe services. There will be times of extreme pressure, there will be the need to cover sickness absences, maternity leave or unplanned absences. So, there will always be a need for some spend on agency. But you're quite right: the spend at the moment is not where we want it to be. So, we've agreed to work in social partnership and to work to reduce the agency spend. That's going to include a range of measures, including a revised control framework for expenditure. And what I can tell you is that agency spend is trending down month on month already for this year. It's not a significant decrease yet, but I am hoping that we will see a more significant fall by the end of this year. 

Thank you for that answer. We already know that three quarters of our nurses work overtime, yet 42 per cent are not paid for that work. They choose agency work because it gives them greater flexibility and they are paid for what they do, but it means that in many cases they have to work away from home. Hence why we are seeing so many nurses leaving the profession. Nurses tell me that, if they were paid overtime, then they would be more likely to stay in the profession and, in fact, some would come back to the profession. So, one solution to avoid having to go to agencies is to simply pay nurses overtime. Finance directors are allowed to pay overtime, but, for whatever reasons, they choose not to do so and instead opt for agency staff. Paying overtime is one simple solution to help with retention and keep money in the NHS. So, is the Minister willing to look at this as a viable option and instruct finance officers to use this method of payment, moving forward?

Thanks very much. Significant work has already been undertaken within the national workforce implementation plan, which really focuses on this issue, and that plan includes the need to develop flexibility. So, it’s clear that, in the past, the rules around this have been too tight. So, we are trying to respond to what the Royal College of Nursing and other organisations have been asking us, and so there are now some examples of achievements already. Health Education and Improvement Wales has launched a refreshed and enhanced attraction and recruitment campaign for the NHS, but you’re absolutely right that what we need to look at is retention. And what we’ve said in the plan is that we are absolutely taking a holistic approach. So, we need to focus on just looking at the optimal conditions to support staff to stay in the NHS, and the detail for that will be outlined in the nursing retention plan that’s going to be launched shortly alongside a national retention programme for Wales.

There remain significant financial pressures across the NHS for both revenue and capital. Betsi Cadwaladr University Health Board will need to continue to prioritise capital requirements to ensure that they are focusing on essential services. As a result, difficult decisions are going to need to be made.

The Royal Alexandra Hospital in Rhyl was closed in 2009, with a pledge that it would be redeveloped. Indeed, community hospitals were closed on the back of that pledge to redevelop the Royal Alex. There was a business case in 2021, which highlighted the need to redevelop it. Fourteen years later, we are still waiting for that to happen. The health board is waiting for the Government to confirm whether funding will be available, the county council, which discussed this recently, is still waiting, and residents and patients in the north are still waiting.

Now, in light of the budgetary challenges that you have just outlined to us, you can answer one of two questions—you can choose which one to answer. Either will you answer when we will see the redevelopment of the Royal Alex in Rhyl, or perhaps you would prefer to tell us whether we will ever see the redevelopment of the Royal Alex in Rhyl?

Well, thank you very much. This was something that I raised with the board last week. I have regular meetings with the board and this is something that I impressed on them. There needs to be a decision on this; there needs to be a prioritisation. Now, it's going to be difficult for them to prioritise. I'm very keen, for example, to see an improvement in the numbers that receive orthopaedic treatment in north Wales—the waiting lists are too long. And so, there will be a need to weigh up whether you want a new orthopaedic centre or the redevelopment of the Royal Alex. I don't think that's a decision for me; I think it's a decision that the board has to weigh up in terms of what the most important thing is at present. 

What we do know in relation to the Royal Alex is that, when that decision was made that we wanted to see that development, it would have cost about £20 million; by now, it would cost approximately £80 million. And what you are aware of is that, this year, our capital funding across the entire Government went up by £1 million. So, the capital situation is very difficult for us. But what I can tell you is that, over the last 10 years, Betsi Cadwaladr has had £454 million in capital funding from the Welsh Government.

Janet Finch-Saunders.

Diolch, Llywydd. Will the Minister make a statement—? Oh, yes, sorry—

Janet Finch-Saunders, you really do need to focus when you're in the Chamber—

I am focused.

You were totally distracted there in e-mailing, and I would ask—

I'm not the only one, with all due respect.

No, no. I'll—

Come on—

No, don't challenge me and don't 'come on' me, right? I'm not in the mood for it today. You were totally distracted. I was trying to look at you, to catch your attention that you were to be called next, and you were typing away. So, focus on what you're doing. Ask the Minister the question; she's here to answer what you have to ask, so ask the correct one this time.

Okay, thank you. The Betsi Cadwaladr University Health Board estate strategy, dated 6 January 2023, highlights that £1.61 billion of capital investment—[Interruption.] It's what? 

Carry on.

Sorry, what am I doing wrong now?

You're doing nothing wrong at the moment.

Okay, thank you. The priorities for the capital programme are the Wrexham Maelor Hospital infrastructure continuity programme; Ysbyty Gwynedd fire compliance programme, regional treatment centre programme and expanded orthopaedics capacity; Royal Alexandra Hospital development project; a replacement of the Ablett unit at Glan Clwyd Hospital and a medical and health sciences school. Now, there's no mention of projects in hospitals such as Bryn y Neuadd, which already has a maintenance backlog of £27.5 million and now has reinforced autoclaved aerated concrete—the concrete issue. What steps are you taking to co-operate with Betsi Cadwaladr to ensure that capital investment is being made in these small yet vitally important hospitals, such as Bryn y Neuadd? Diolch.

Thanks very much. What I can tell you is that our capital budget is massively restricted, and that's thanks to the Tory Government, which has only given us £1 million in additional capital funding for the entirety of the Welsh Government additionally this year. It's not my job to prioritise what the health board—. Because these are clinical decisions, they need to work out, 'Right, what is the most urgent thing here? Is it to fix mental health or is it to put more into cancer care, or is it to put more into orthopaedics, or is it to develop the Royal Alexandra?' I don't think it's my place to determine for them where they put that money. 

What I can tell you is that, actually, quite a lot of our capital money is spent on simply keeping the lights on. We have got an ageing estate, and so when you talk about the Wrexham Maelor continuity programme, that's quite a lot of money, but if we don't spend it, it will be difficult to keep that hospital open, because the electrics just won't stand up to the pressure that they're under at the moment. So, there are things that we have to spend to keep the show on the road, and then we have to think, 'Right, what are the priorities and what matters most to the people in north Wales?'

I don't think that I should be intervening in determining what the clinical priorities should be. That's why we appoint health boards, to make those decisions. They are closer to the people. They know where the safety issues are, for example. It would be wrong of me to say, 'Right, develop this', and then see that, actually, you can't keep the lights on, which means that people just are decanted from hospitals. So, it's not my call, I don't think, but I obviously keep in close touch with the health boards in terms of their determining what they want to do.

There are a number of drivable and towable mobile dental units that have been commissioned in innovative ways across Wales. This includes use for the delivery of oral health initiatives such as Gwên am Byth, Designed to Smile, or to deliver additional general dental service capacity in underserved areas.

I'd like to thank the Minister for her answer. Minister, we've discussed this before. As you know, these are key parts of the health service, which I think are really needed, actually, to get to the most deprived people in our society and, actually, to help our schools and our young children—getting their check-ups and getting dental care—because we do know that good oral health has good links to good overall health, and good mental health as well. So, with discussions you're having as part of the Government review with funding, I was just interested, with the pilot schemes that have been launched across the country, is there going to be longer term funding for the mobile dental units, going forward, or are we going to see some of these schemes paused due to the funding pressures currently being faced by the Welsh Government?

Thanks very much. You'll be aware that there is a pilot programme being undertaken in a school in north Wales at the moment—in Ysgol y Moelwyn—so that is up and running. It'll be interesting to see what the results of that are and whether it constitutes value for money for us, and all of that, of course, is critical in our assessments going forward.

In terms of mobile units, there's value to them, but I think we've also got to understand that they're not ideal either. You do have to consider things like whether you've got the right plumbing and the right kind of environment for them to work effectively. So, there are mobile dental units, for example, and I know that they make good use of them, in Carmarthen, and in Powys, for example, they've been using a mobile unit in Machynlleth, but I think now that they've got the new development, that's going to be moved into the new development. So, as a concept, we're going to see how it goes in Ysgol y Moelwyn, and if that works, then, obviously, we'll have to reassess and see whether that is a model we can consider rolling out further.

Llandeilo, Fishguard, Cross Hands, Ammanford—these are some of the areas in my region that have been greatly impacted as 24 per cent of dentists in the Hywel Dda area brought their NHS contracts to an end over the past year. And, unfortunately, this figure is going to increase as we heard the recent news that NHS provision is going to come to end in Haverfordwest and Whitland at the end of November.

Last year, only 30 per cent of the population in Wales had an appointment with a dentist in the NHS. But, following the location of a mobile dental unit in Ammanford recently, as a new contractor established there, has the Government considered providing more mobile dental units—you've already mentioned some of them—in rural communities in order to fill the gap? And, if so, what assessment have you made to ensure that there is sufficient workforce available to make these mobile units a realistic option?

Thank you very much. I'm highly aware of the situation in west Wales. That's one reason why we've offered an additional £5,000, to encourage people to train in areas such as west Wales. But, if we, as a Government, lose that contract, you don't lose the money; what you do is re-contract to someone else. That's what happened in Ammanford, where we have re-contracted, but the centre isn't yet ready and that is why they've put that mobile unit in place temporarily. Now, clearly, you've heard about the financial situation, which is very challenging, and so, being realistic, I don't think that we will see a great deal purchased and used. But, there is, for example, a lot of additional help that has been provided in Carmarthen in terms of urgent access capacity. A great deal of work has been done in Hywel Dda University Health Board, and they have made that investment in urgent access capacity and that is being used in the mobile unit in Carmarthen.

Good afternoon, Minister. Just to follow up on the question that Cefin has asked—and I do thank James Evans for raising the issue around dentistry, which is one that I know many of us here are concerned about—following on from the issue around clawbacks, as I understand it, they're contracts that are returned to the local health boards. In Powys, we know that the total amount of clawback from dental care practices undertaking NHS works amounts to £241,000, representing almost half of all the NHS dental practices in the health board, which, for Powys, is a really high number. So, I just wondered if you could tell us how we can learn how you're reinvesting, or how you expect the health board to reinvest the money that is coming back from those clawbacks, from those hand-backs of dental contracts, immediately in relation to continued dental health care. Diolch yn fawr iawn.

Thanks very much. The figures I've got for Powys are very different in relation to the contract hand-backs in Powys, so, it'd be interesting for us to compare notes on that later. But, what I can tell you is that, of course, the funding is not lost. As I say, it remains within the health board and then they replace it with alternative dental services. The problem is that the reprocurement takes time, and, obviously, what that means is that there's a gap in provision, and health boards have to try and make arrangements to provide urgent emergency care while those displaced patients are changed and moved to a recommissioned dentist. So, I'd be very happy to compare notes with you in terms of the contract returns, because the suggestion that I have is they're not as significant as you're suggesting there.FootnoteLink

Diolch, Weinidog. I wanted to touch on some concerns you alluded to with regard to the mobile dental unit in your answer to James Evans. I'm sure you're aware there was an article in Nation Cymru over the summer months about mobile dental units being purchased by Cardiff and Vale health board at a cost of nearly £0.5 million, but that they were out of action for many different reasons at multiple times due to various faults. The article went further to claim that the vehicles were not properly MOT certified and that one of the units was driven illegally 16 times. Now, you're more aware than anyone here of the long waiting lists here in Cardiff to get seen by a dentist, so would you agree to a review by your officials of the use of the mobile dental units in Cardiff and Vale University Health Board due to the concerns raised in that Nation Cymru article? Diolch.

Part of the reason for that expense is that some of those mobile dental units are fitted with bariatric chairs, which, obviously, need to be reinforced and which provide Cardiff with the capacity to treat bariatric patients. So that would, perhaps, explain some of the reason why they are more expensive. I think it's probably important to underline that there are limitations to the effectiveness of mobile dental units as care delivery models for the longer term, and that's partly because there may be mechanical issues that need to be considered, there are infection prevention and control requirements that need to be considered, and, of course, we have to consider travel time for the staff and for patients. The key thing, of course, in relation to dentistry always is the staff situation. You can invest in lots and lots of new mobile units, but if you don't have the staff, they're pretty pointless. So, for me, focus on staffing is absolutely critical, and I was very pleased, over the summer, to go and visit the new dental academy in Bangor, which, of course, will help to provide some of those people who will be helping us in future in this area.

In my statement yesterday, I set out the progress that has been made since I put Betsi Cadwaladr University Health Board back into special measures, and I outlined the support the health board is receiving from the Welsh Government and the NHS executive to address a range of clinical and operational issues.

Thank you, Minister. You've already highlighted the extreme financial pressures that the NHS in Wales is facing, because of the huge real-terms reductions in funding to Wales from the UK Government and the price of inflation. Yesterday, I raised the need for a new health centre in Cefn Mawr, and also there's a need for a new GP surgery in Hanmer, and I'm very pleased with the progress that's being made by the health board with regard to both projects. Minister, will the Welsh Government commit to protecting as best it can the very precious capital funding that's available for new and improved health facilities as we navigate through these incredibly difficult times?

Thanks very much. You're quite right, it is a challenging time, particularly in relation to capital in the health service, but what we have undertaken is some support in relation to that integration and rebalancing of capital funds, so there is a ring-fenced amount of money. It was launched in 2022, and that's going to reach £70 million within three years. So, there is some money there in order to do precisely what you're talking about. What we are now looking at, in particular in north Wales, is that six projects have been approved, including the next stage business case for the development of a health and well-being hub for Conwy and Llandudno Junction, and a well-being centre in Penygroes in Gwynedd. But it's good to hear that they're also progressing with those GP services that you mentioned.

We recognise the importance of ensuring that all citizens across Wales should be able to have access to their medicines and prescription information in a format that suits them, and the continuing engagement with both vulnerable and non-vulnerable groups across Wales will ensure that their voices are heard.

Diolch, Minister. It is good to hear that positive news about the potential as well for e-prescribing across Wales, because there are so many benefits to it, including not having millions of pieces of prescription paper flying around Wales all of the time. And it really will help patients when they're in hospital, and they'll be able to be discharged faster. If you go into hospital and you aren't able to say what prescription you're on, it will be able to be pulled up. There really are so many benefits, so I am in favour of it.

We are investigating e-prescribing through the lens of data justice and therefore social justice in our Equality and Social Justice Committee. So, just some of the things that have been raised so far. Having spoken to survivors of violence against women, domestic abuse and sexual violence, they were saying that, at the moment, they would be quite concerned that anybody would be able to access their records. So, anybody who worked in the NHS. So, maybe if their perpetrator worked in the NHS or somebody who was known to the perpetrator. And they actually went so far as to say that they would fear for their life if there was a possibility that they would be able to access their address, and it would also probably stop them from even going to their GP because they would be so frightened. So, that was one thing I wanted to raise. 

The British Medical Association as well has suggested that there is probably going to be a need for an opt-in and informed consent-based model. However, I'm concerned that, at the moment, we're hearing maybe that they're more leaning towards doing an opt-out model. So, any consideration of that—. But, Community Pharmacy Wales have then also said that they're fully behind it, but as you know, it will allow England's online distance-selling pharmacies, which do not exist in Wales and have no high street presence, to easily access Welsh prescriptions. At the moment, they've got a 5 per cent market share in England. If they were to have that market share in Wales, we would see our pharmacies close on our high streets, all impacting, as we know, the most vulnerable. So, my follow-up question is: what cross-Government work is being done in relation to this plan to move to e-prescribing, and where are the equality and economic impact assessments in particular? Diolch.

Thanks very much. Well, I've spent a lot of time trying to see what we can do in relation to digital progress within the NHS. I think this is where it's at in terms of transformation. Obviously, it's very frustrating when you have the kind of financial challenges we're up against at the moment, because it perhaps will not now go as fast as I'd like it to go. But, what I can tell you is that massive progress is being made. We do have the digital medicines transformation portfolio, and what that's done is they've engaged with people across the whole of Wales. And the point of this is that it started with the user. So, it's a user-centred design. I think this is really important. What you don't want is a bunch of geeks developing something that, actually, normal people can't use. So, it's got to start with what the patients need and want and how you're going to use it. So, it's turning the whole system on its head, really. 

You're quite right to set out some of the concerns. I think when they talked about this in England, they got it in the wrong place and it slowed everything down. So, we're determined to get this right. So, we are taking it slower. But I think there are huge wins for us here if we get this right. I got massively frustrated over the summer, because I went to get a new pair of glasses, and what was interesting was that they knew my prescription in Haverfordwest from a different service that I'd been to in Cardiff, and I just thought, 'Wow, that's amazing.' So, it doesn't sound like rocket science, but actually we need to get there. 

I do think that the public—. It's quite interesting, isn't it, because if we're using Facebook or we're using—you know, we are putting out our information everywhere. If you do it with the NHS, and obviously you've got to protect people and I absolutely take on board what you're suggesting in terms of women who've succumbed to violence and things, we've absolutely got to protect them, but the gains in terms of data, what we can learn and what we can share could be phenomenal. So, we've got to try and navigate this very, very sensitive system. At the moment, a lot of the information is effectively owned by GPs, and patients have that relationship with GPs that they trust. But you're quite right: if 105,000 people have access to that, who work in the NHS, you're getting into a slightly different place. So, we have got to be sensitive about how we do this. We are trying to do it in a way that takes on board some of the concerns you've set out.

Work is under way through the implementation of new optometry contracted terms of service, which I announced in September last year. The emphasis is on more treatment and care delivered in the community. The Welsh Government is committed to improving healthcare services and improving the provision of eye health is a priority.

I’ve written to the Minister about this issue regarding concerns that have been raised with me by high-street opticians in Caerphilly. They’re concerned that the reforms, while well-intentioned, could actually end up widening inequalities in eye health. So, they support the reform proposals for significant investment in the sector and expanding the scope of practice, which is what the Government is proposing, but they also feel the voucher system could mean that some of the poorest in our community will have less to spend on the glasses that they need, and that is a concern, and I think some of the lobby groups have changed their position since the consultation closed. Some of the Optometry Wales position has changed. So, would the Minister agree to meet with Optometry Wales to discuss those ongoing concerns about the reforms, and how their position has changed in the time since the consultation opened?

Well, thanks very much. You’ll be aware, Hefin, that there is increasing demand for eye health care, and so, if we want to see sustainability in future, we have to do things differently, and shifting that emphasis from secondary care, hospitals, into the community is fundamental for that. We have incredibly talented people working in our ophthalmology services, so why wouldn’t we want to use them? So, the question is: how do we use them in a way that works for everybody, including those professional optometrists?

What I can tell you is that we haven’t done any of this without doing it with Optometry Wales. Everything has been negotiated with them. The new NHS Wales general ophthalmic service reflects the actual cost of providing services and optical appliances, and that’s going to come into effect towards the end of next month. So, what we’re going to do is the clinical fees and the voucher values will be subject, however, to annual tripartite negotiations between Welsh Government, NHS Wales and Optometry Wales. But I am confident that the negotiation—. The UK ophthalmic voice was in a different place from the Welsh ophthalmic voice on this, and that was partly because they didn’t quite trust the UK Government, who were just starting out on the conversations around this, to put in the kind of finances that we’ve put in—an additional £30 million—to address the clinical aspects. So, that’s where I think this lack of trust has come in, Hefin, but I’m confident that we’ve got it in the right place, which will help the poorest in our community.

Digital Health and Care Wales is actively working with each GP practice across Wales to assist them in adopting the NHS Wales app, clearly communicating the benefits to the practice. Our phased plan aims to have supported all GP surgeries to connect by the end of this financial year.

RNIB Cymru’s report 'Make it Make Sense. Inaccessible information: a health inequality' highlights the issue of inaccessible patient communications putting patients with sight loss at risk. The report states that

'Improvements to patient communication could go a long way towards reducing wasted appointments and maximising the capacity of the health service, delivering the dual benefit of saving NHS costs and improving outcomes for patients.'

The report also states that more than half of the people they surveyed have received information from their GP or hospital in a format they could not read, adding that this has

'serious practical, health and emotional consequences.'

How do you therefore respond to the call by RNIB Cymru for local health boards to receive support and funding to upgrade their IT systems so that patient communication requirements in GP surgeries and across primary and secondary healthcare settings can be recorded and actioned for every patient?

Thanks very much, Mark. I think the question is relevant to the question that was asked earlier by Sarah about actually how do we make sure that people, in moving to a digital age, are still able to access services if they're from a community that finds that more difficult. What we have done is we have given significant funding to GP services, for example, to upgrade their systems, and the access contract that we've got with GPs means, I think, you will have noted the significant reduction in volume when it comes to people complaining about access to GPs. That's partly because we've put in these new digital systems, and we're very keen to make sure that not only are they able to access it, but importantly when it comes to, for example, repeat prescriptions, that you will be able to do quite a lot of that on an app, or it will happen automatically. So, one of the things that's happened this summer for example, is that we've just piloted a series of tests—this happened in Rhyl—where we tried to make sure that if you got a prescription, that it could be sent directly to a pharmacy and then that you would be informed about that. So, I think there are actually real opportunities here for people across Wales, including people from communities like the blind community who will be able to access things and things will be done—for example, repeat prescriptions could be done automatically.

I thank the Minister.

Item 3 this afternoon is the topical questions. I call on Altaf Hussain to ask the question.

We are disappointed to hear of the closure of Chwarae Teg. I would like to pay tribute to its work over many years. The charity has touched and made a difference to the lives of women across Wales and provided the Welsh Government with the insights to collectively deliver change.

Thank you for your response, Deputy Minister. It is a sad day for equalities in Wales. Chwarae Teg have been fighting for gender equality since 1992 and have a strong track record of holding the Welsh Government to account. Their annual 'State of the Nation' reports provide invaluable insight to those of us seeking to create a more equal Wales. It is therefore deeply concerning and regrettable that the Welsh Government did not see fit to rescue the charity. As Sharon Williams said in her statement this morning, this is

'desperately sad news for our staff, funders and clients—but above all for the women of Wales who we have been so proud to serve over so many years.'

I would like to pay tribute to all those working for the charity, and urge the Welsh Government to assist the workforce facing redundancy. Ms Williams added that the team had recently secured a number of new contracts, which showed that the need for their work is as great as ever. Minister, do you agree that the need for their work is as great as ever? I do. Therefore, Minister, what actions are the Welsh Government taking to ensure that there continues to be an independent assessment of the Welsh Government's gender equality work, and will you ensure there continues to be an annual 'State of the Nation' report? Thank you very much.

Can I thank Altaf Hussain for his question and his interest in this area? You're absolutely right, it is regrettable. For 30 years, Chwarae Teg has provided useful insight, support and advice to Government around issues of gender equality, and their departure from the agenda is very much regrettable.

I think, first and foremost, our thoughts are with the members of staff who now face redundancy, and we're already working with Working Wales to make sure they get the support and assistance that they need. Alongside this, officials and I are working with Chwarae Teg and other partners to find the best way for the continuation of the valuable work the organisation has been doing, absolutely recognising the role there is to play there, and the need to continue some of that work and that support right across Wales.

The day after we discuss a long-overdue proposal to ensure the Senedd is more representative of Welsh society, we learn that this prominent gender equality charity, Chwarae Teg, is shutting down. It's deeply concerning, as you said, for the staff especially, but also because of that invaluable and important research, policy and practical work Chwarae Teg has done to promote gender equality in Wales, for example headline-making reports such as 'State of the Nation', the programmes such as LeadHerShip—I know many of us have taken part in that—to encourage young women into public life, and the Not Just for Boys programme showing young women opportunities in science, technology, engineering cand mathematics. Urgent work is needed by the Welsh Government to assess the gap that will be left in terms of an authority on the best practice in improving equality in Wales. So, will that work be done, and any impact also on women currently being supported by the charity, including those undertaking qualifications?

Deputy Minister, could a bridging loan have been considered, as there are numerous shared prosperity fund-funded projects that will now be under threat? The Welsh Government set out its ambition for Wales to be a world leader in gender equality in 2019. You now need to outline the steps you will be taking to mitigate the impact of this news and how this will be achieved without the vital and innovative work of Chwarae Teg in terms of research, policy development and campaigning. I'd also like to know what assessment has been made as regards the wider impact on the third sector in Wales. The Welsh Government has always relied on organisations like Chwarae Teg to deliver on their policy work. So, what will be in place to ensure other similar organisations are supported as they transition to post-Brexit funding streams? Diolch.

Can I thank Sioned Williams for her question? I know this is an area you feel passionate about as well. You, like me and many others in this place, have taken part in the LeadHerShip programme provided by Chwarae Teg, and you list all the other support and projects that the organisation have pioneered and piloted over the years. So, I reiterate again that, very much, it is a regrettable situation. Inevitably, there's going to be a range of factors involved with having to take such a serious decision, and so even a package of short-term support might not have gone far enough to rescue the long-term sustainability of the organisation.

Separately, on the broader piece in terms of the voluntary sector, I know my colleague the Minister for Social Justice is working very closely with the Wales Council for Voluntary Action and other organisations around those challenges facing the voluntary sector in the current economic climate, but actually the impact of post-EU funding too and Wales not receiving its fair share now post leaving the EU, and the challenges that they face because of rising costs for all organisations, recognising the role that the voluntary sector plays, like you said, in supporting some of the most vulnerable in our society and communities across Wales.

With respect to Chwarae Teg specifically, we're very much working very closely, obviously, with Working Wales, to support the people that are directly impacted, but with other partners too and other organisations to assess the best way in which that work can be continued, so it doesn't leave a gap in support in Wales, and actually how we can then also ensure that maybe some work that they were looking to do is perhaps able to be done in a different way. So, I very much give the Member and this Senedd my assurances that it is high on the Welsh Government's agenda. Of course, this is a very recent announcement and an evolving situation, and I'd be more than happy to update the Senedd in more detail in due course.

Finally, Jane Dodds.

Diolch yn fawr iawn, Dirprwy Lywydd. Just following on from some of the sentiments this afternoon, I do thank Altaf Hussain for raising the issue. We know that Chwarae Teg really is part of the fabric of gender equality here in Wales. Their campaigns and strategies, particularly in tackling violence against women and girls, are well known to all of us, and, in fact, many of us have taken evidence from their staff in relation to their expert research and experiences directly with service users. So, it is of grave concern to hear that they are closing. We know that there are significant financial pressures on the Government, but in Wales the third sector does punch above its weight, and, actually, investing in the third sector actually delivers far, far more money than you put in. So, I just wondered if you could tell us what impact you think—or give us an indication—the loss of Chwarae Teg will have on progressing the Government's violence against women, domestic abuse and sexual violence strategy and gender equality action plan. Diolch yn fawr iawn.

Diolch. Thank you, Jane Dodds, and thank you too for recognising the role the organisation has played for some, I think, 30 years now in the Welsh landscape, not only supporting women in organisations and across communities, supporting and helping Members of this place too, but also advising and rightly pushing the Welsh Government to go further and to set and to shape this agenda of a more gender-equal Wales. 

Just to repeat the points I made to Sioned Williams, I very much give the assurance that we're working very closely to ensure that, actually, we do not leave a gap, that we're able to see ways in which some of those vital support services continue, but also the work of the major programmes that Chwarae Teg have been doing, and what options there are for them to perhaps be supported in the future, but also going back to our primary focus and our thoughts with those staff who have been affected, and the chief exec of Chwarae Teg, who hasn't actually been in post all that long and has very much inherited these challenges, and seeking to do the best by the workforce and by the organisation, and the people, the places and the communities that they have supported so successfully over the years as well.

I thank the Deputy Minister.

Item 4 this afternoon is the 90-second statements, and the first statement will be from John Griffiths. 

Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd. This week, Learning and Work Institute are celebrating their thirty-second year of Adult Learners' Week, in partnership with the Welsh Government. The annual campaign involves a large number of organisations across Wales, and builds on a vision to make Wales a nation of second chances, where it's never too late to learn. Partners across multiple sectors have come together to contribute to a programme of activity. There are over 300 free online and in-person courses, events, tasters, outreach activities and resources on offer.

Every year, the Inspire! adult learning awards provide an opportunity to hear from a diverse set of individuals, community projects and organisations in Wales committed to lifelong learning. This year, we heard from Elinor Ridout, who has returned to the classroom to become a paediatric nurse in memory of her beloved son, Will, and from Walid Musa Albuqai, who fled war-torn Syria with his family and studied English as a second language, enabling him to find a career as a bus driver. We heard from Steven Wright, who has moved to Wales from Australia. He was initially sceptical about the Welsh language, but through a love of culture, he learnt Welsh and has broken new ground in encouraging others to use the language in their everyday lives. As Raymond Williams said, 

'To be truly radical is to make hope possible, rather than despair convincing.'

There were many more winners. I congratulate them all, and encourage other Members to read their stories.

Last week, Kaleidoscope celebrated 20 years of operating in Wales. Their ethos is to offer effective and innovative treatments for substance misuse. I'm so proud to have such a compassionate and pioneering organisation based in my constituency. They really do make a huge difference in Newport.

Initially set up in 1968 in Kingston upon Thames, offering a safe space for young people, the charity's work has evolved over the years to support thousands of people with drug, alcohol and mental health issues, at key centres throughout the country. In 2003 Newport City Council approached Kaleidoscope, and they started their service in the space at the back of St Paul's church on Commercial Street, with initial funding from Welsh Government for 100 clients. Within a year, that number increased to 500, and Kaleidoscope have since been selected to deliver their innovative approach across every part of Wales. In the words of Martin Blakebrough, their inspirational chief executive officer, society must have a focus on life, that a life is worth saving, and that people who use drugs can have a worthy and happy life, a life worth living:

'People do not choose to become problematic drug users. We need to become more innovative. We campaign for the right for people who take drugs to recover, have access to treatment and to be safe'.

Kaleidoscope's mission is to protect people. They are steadfast in their view that the route to recovery is by showing love and care to those who are struggling to love themselves. They have made a huge difference, and are continuously transforming drug treatment in the areas they serve. They continue to be at the forefront of this work, so here's to the next 20 years.

This September is Gynaecological Cancer Awareness Month. Throughout the month, various organisations work to raise awareness of the five gynaecological cancers—womb, ovarian, cervical, vulval and vaginal—and promote the support that is available. I have become a Target Ovarian Cancer champion, to help raise awareness of this devastating disease, because over 300 women are diagnosed with ovarian cancer each year in Wales, and it is sadly the most common cause of gynaecological cancer death, yet remains overlooked. The symptoms of ovarian cancer are similar to many other common illnesses, meaning they're often missed or put down to other causes, and, as a result, the cancer can be diagnosed too late and be more difficult to treat. There are four main symptoms: persistent bloating; feeling full quickly and/or loss of appetite; pelvic or abdominal pain; and urinary symptoms. They will be frequent, persistent, and new symptoms, and, occasionally, there can be others, like changes in bowel habits, extreme fatigue, and unexplained weight loss.

We have seen welcome improvements in the diagnosis and treatment of ovarian cancer in Wales, but charities such as Target Ovarian Cancer say there's still much more to be done, as it's unacceptable that awareness of these symptoms is still so low, with just 27 per cent of women able to recognise bloating as a symptom, and that women do not feel they are given sufficient time to discuss their devastating diagnosis with healthcare professionals. Welsh Government needs to prioritise this. But we all have a role to play in encouraging women to recognise these symptoms, seek advice, so we can increase early diagnosis and save lives.

Thank you, all.

Item 5 is the motion to note the annual report on the Senedd Commission's official languages scheme for 2022-23. I call on Adam Price to move the motion on behalf of the Senedd Commission.

Thank you very much, Dirprwy Lywydd. I’m pleased to present the Senedd Commission's annual report on its official languages scheme for 2022-23 before the Senedd today. In doing so, I would like to thank my predecessor as Commissioner, Rhun ap Iorwerth—my successor as leader of Plaid—for his work during the period covered by this report, and all the Commission staff who have been delivering the work, which is included in the report. Even though it isn't an interest in the narrow, official sense, I'd like to just say that my brother works for the Commission, as a language tutor, and has had the pleasure of teaching Welsh to many of you.

Yes. He's very good. [Laughter.]

Excellent. He'll be pleased to hear that.

Members of the Senedd will be aware that the Senedd Commission is required, in accordance with the Official Languages Act 2012, to submit an annual report on its work in providing bilingual services, including any complaints or cases of the scheme being breached. Over the past year, the work of the official languages team has focused on implementing the scheme for the sixth Senedd, ensuring that Members, their support staff and Senedd Commission staff are aware of any changes that apply to them.

Members will now be familiar with the statistical information that is published as part of the annual report. The information is vital for the Commission, and for us as Members, and the public, to be able to monitor several areas within the scope of the scheme. This year, the report also includes last year's figures, for the purposes of providing context and comparison. The information includes details of the jobs that have been advertised, whether those require courtesy Welsh skills or higher levels, which allows us to plan our provision of bilingual services and to identify gaps or training needs. We also include details of the business laid in either language, or bilingually, and the documents that are laid in accordance with the requirement to do so bilingually. On that point, it's good to see a steady reduction in the number of documents laid in English only, which, of course, means that it is easier for Members to prepare for meetings and proceedings in their language of choice.

When looking at the statistical information, there is one area of concern to me as a Commissioner, namely the percentage of Welsh-medium contributions in committee proceedings. It was good to see that we maintained the 30 per cent level of Welsh contributions in Plenary meetings. However, the percentage of Welsh contributions in committee proceedings fell to 8 per cent from last year's level, which was 12 per cent, which was itself very low. We will therefore continue to monitor the situation and look for ways for Members of the Senedd, and others who take part in committee proceedings, to be confident and comfortable in using their language of choice. We will continue to provide the support available to Members, for example, briefings, vocabulary and tutor support in rehearsing speeches or committee contributions, and we will look for other ways to remove any barriers in terms of using the language of choice, and, in this context, of course, using Welsh. To this end, we will also resubmit the table that indicates the percentages of business submitted over the year to the annual report from next year onwards. We have included it in previous years, so, in order to complete the statistics, we will do that again in the future. And if any Member would like to see that data for the reporting period, I will place it in the library for their information.

I believe it would be fair to say that the highlight of this year's report was the number of Members, support staff and Commission staff who are choosing to make use of the Welsh learning and refresher gloywi iaith provision at the Senedd. Evidently Janet is among them. And it's good to see that we have now returned to the number of learners that we had before we were hit by the pandemic. The team has worked to understand learners' needs and aspirations in the new world of hybrid working, and has developed a timetable and provision that responds to those needs. But there is always room for improvement, and so the team will continue to expand provision and look for opportunities to provide first-class services to all learners in a way that offers something for everyone's taste. Of course, we will continue to celebrate notable successes, such as Members making their first Welsh contributions in Plenary, or success in the exams of the joint education committee. And it was good to see the Counsel General using Welsh in the historic statement that he made yesterday.

To conclude, therefore, I would like to look towards the future and the coming year. We will look again at the elements relating to language skills within the recruitment process, including the assessments for the skill levels on the language skills matrix. And in addition, we hope to be able to carry out a Welsh language skills survey for Senedd Commission staff, in order to assist with the process of reviewing the language schemes of the individual services that feed into the ongoing linguistic planning work. Most importantly, we will continue to nurture an ethos and culture that celebrates the diversity of the Senedd community, encouraging everyone to try out their Welsh skills, regardless of their skill level, and to do so in a supportive and positive atmosphere. Thank you very much, Dirprwy Lywydd.

I am very grateful for the opportunity to talk about this today. I would like to thank you, on behalf of the Welsh Conservatives, for the work that has been done by the Commissioner and others in moving forward with the Commission's official languages scheme. The success of this scheme is very important for attaining the goal of Cymraeg 2050 and protecting the Welsh language for future generations. I am happy to be part of a Senedd that shows how a bilingual workplace can work well, being open and supportive of both Welsh and English.

It was interesting to read in the report how they dealt with the challenges of running a hybrid Senedd. I was also surprised to hear that some of the Senedd Commission staff had worked with Microsoft to test translation on Teams. I strongly believe that we should always continue to learn, regardless of our age or experience. Working with Rannóg an Aistriúcháin, namely the translation service in the Irish Parliament, has been valuable. It not only helps our Irish neighbours, but also gives us good experiences that we can learn from.

I want to repeat what Adam Price said and talk about the numbers in the annual report. It is important to note that the percentage of documents published in Welsh and English has decreased from 7 per cent in 2021-22 to 5 per cent in 2022-2023. Welsh contributions in committee proceedings also fell from 12 per cent to 8 per cent during the last year, which is a big reduction. This was partly because fewer witnesses spoke in Welsh. So, it is very important that speaking Welsh should not be a problem when giving evidence, as it affects the types of evidence that we receive. Unfortunately, the percentage of Welsh contributions has not increased during the last year, which is disappointing. I may have missed it, but when comparing this year's report with last year's, it looks as though they have omitted the number of written questions submitted in Welsh. It fell from 10 per cent to 4 per cent between 2020 and 2022, and I would appreciate it if the Commissioner could tell us the figure for the last reporting period, so that we can keep track of the progress made.

And a highlight—I am pleased to see an increase of 82 per cent in the number of Welsh learners who are using the Commission's Welsh learner scheme. Amid the budgetary pressures, I would like to know how they will ensure that the budget for this scheme will continue to be protected. Also, have there been any changes in the financial numbers since this report was published? I would like to know whether the Commission has specific goals or targets for measuring how well this scheme is doing, as the years go by.

To conclude, I wish to say again that, yes, my party supports the development of the Welsh language in everything that we do in the Senedd, just as I said in the debate on the OLS report last year. Thank you very much. 

I thank the Commissioner for the update and the report. Clearly, as you've outlined, there are a number of things to be welcomed here, particularly in terms of the numbers of learners and the increase there. But similarly to Sam Kurtz, I do think we need to understand some of the figures and ask why people choose not to use the Welsh language, because it is a choice. We are a bilingual nation. It would be hypocritical for me to say that everyone who speaks Welsh should make every contribution in Welsh, because I don't do that myself. But Welsh is my first language, and I do take pride in the fact that I am here, as a Member of the Welsh Parliament, and am able to use the Welsh language at work, something that isn't possible for many people, although we do try and support them. So, it is very important that we set an example here.

One of the things that I wanted to ask is—. You mention the decline in Welsh-language contributions in committees; it would be interesting to know what the percentage is in terms of how much Members contribute in that regard, and has there been a reduction there, and perhaps some work could be with Members to understand why, because I've seen excellent examples of people using the Welsh language for the first time in committees. For example, Hefin David has often used the Welsh language on the culture committee, and it's been wonderful to see that, that he feels confident and takes that opportunity, and that we can support each other.

So, I think it would be good, not just to monitor, but also to work with committees to try and understand this trend, because, on one committee that I attend, I think I'm the only one who does use the Welsh language and one tends to slip into English then when questioning witnesses and so on. So, I do think that having reports of that kind would be an encouragement for us to use what is available to us and take advantage of those services.

May I also ask in terms of the budgetary side—? I think Sam Kurtz's point is important; we know the challenges facing the Commission in terms of its budget and we also see the success of the investment that there has been in support staff and so on, and the importance too in terms of Welsh-language refreshers, because we know that so many of the Commission staff and support staff perhaps haven't used the Welsh language since leaving school. And it's important that we continue to invest in those skills.

So, whilst looking forward to the target of a million Welsh speakers by 2050 and how we, as a Parliament, can play our part in that as a workplace and also by setting an example, I think it's important that we don't lose sight of the figures contained here and that we do commit to ensuring that we understand why some choose not to use the Welsh language and that we provide support and ensure that the budget remains in place so that the Welsh language is available and belongs to everybody.

I call on Adam Price to reply to the debate.

I'm grateful to the Members who have contributed and I welcome the comments made and the suggestions that have been made. And if I could request some patience and some leeway because I've only just been appointed to the post. And therefore, as is traditional to say at points such as this, I will respond to you in writing with a full response. [Laughter.]

But I will try and respond to some of the important points that have been raised. I do think that Sam Kurtz was entirely right in celebrating the innovation that is implicit in the report and in the work of the official languages team, namely this engagement and collaboration with Microsoft in changing software that's used at a global level, based on our bilingualism here in Wales. So, that is certainly something that we should take pride in and I understand that that discussion and that collaboration with Microsoft continues.

In terms of the targets and how we benchmark, if that's the—. I don't think I've created a new Welsh-language term in using the word 'meincnodi'. There are targets within the scheme for the sixth Senedd. They are targets to be achieved by the end of the Senedd term, but, of course, they are kept under constant review and we will report against those targets in due course.

In terms of some of the statistics that aren't contained within this report—they will be laid in the Library—in terms of oral questions, according to the table I have before me here, there's been a slight increase, from 14 per cent to 15 per cent, in terms of oral questions submitted in Welsh. In terms of written questions, it's gone slightly in the other direction, from just 4 per cent to 3 per cent of written questions tabled in Welsh.

Now, in terms of Heledd Fychan's question, we will consider whether we can do a little bit more work on this issue of the use of the Welsh language in committees, because you are quite right: there would be different factors that would explain the barriers for Members, perhaps, as opposed to those who are providing evidence. So, we will do some work to understand exactly what the drivers of this phenomenon are, in order to increase usage on both sides, of course.

And, just briefly, as we are discussing statistics, although the situation in terms of documents produced for committees by the Senedd, the situation there, is quite healthy, the figures in terms of the documents tabled bilingually generally speaking is more concerning. Now, many of those documents are outwith the direct control of the Senedd, because they are provided by Government. But it is important that we, as a Parliament, do hold the Government to account, because that then has an impact on our ability to be a bilingual Parliament if we don't get all documents, including explanatory notes—. Unless we get those in good time in a bilingual format, that impedes our ability to be a truly bilingual institution. So, that is something that we should continue to be concerned about. I'm not sure if I've covered everything, Dirprwy Lywydd, but I see that the clock has turned red. But if I haven't been able to respond to that range of questions, I will write to the Members.

The proposal is to agree the motion. Does any Member object? No. The motion is therefore agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.

Item 6 this afternoon is the Plaid Cymru debate on green energy. I call on Delyth Jewell to move the motion.

Diolch. I'd say to start, Dirprwy Lywydd, that, when we tabled the motion for this debate, we hadn't realised just how maddeningly timely it would be. Sunak's decision making in London to row back—[Interruption.]—on key climate policies is a testament of shame. Yes, to the Prime Minister, it is a testament of shame and deep, deep concern. I hope that the Conservatives will reflect on this in their speeches this afternoon. We cannot turn our backs on our planet or we will all perish.

But, to return to the original impetus behind this debate, it is about potential. The infuriating thing about potential is that it's always in the future, always kept at arm's length. It seems that Wales's fate for so many years has been couched in these tantalising terms. We talk about the immense potential for wind and tidal energy, for Wales to become a powerhouse of the future, but the keys to unlock that door are kept on a chain in a closed room hundreds of miles away. That is the infuriating thing: our potential seems never to be realised, at least not under this system. And so, in recent weeks—recent hours, even—we've seen this dynamic play out yet again. The parameters set by Westminster for the offshore wind auction were so unrealistic, so constrained, that there is now no prospect for the foreseeable future of new offshore windfarms being developed in Wales, no means of harnessing our great potential. And this disappointment has come at a time when the Welsh Government has been warned that Wales is not on track to meet our net-zero goals by 2050. Now we've been blown yet more off course.

The time has never been more urgent for us in Wales to develop a new industrial strategy, a green industrial strategy. The devastating job losses at Tata serve to remind us of the real-life consequences of not having such a strategy. And the worrying, disturbing decision by Sunak, the Prime Minister of this Westminster Government, to renege on so many policies makes this all the more urgent too. None of the challenges facing us are remote or at a remove, and our means of dealing with them should not be either.

Because Wales has the potential—that's that word again—the potential to be a powerhouse for clean and renewable energy. So, let's give ourselves the means to do it too. Because, at present, neither the policy approach of Westminster nor of the Government here are making the most of that latent unrealised capacity we could have, the power we could produce. Our coastline is rightly celebrated as a tourist destination, but its beauty need not only be scenic. The Celtic sea could be harnessed to power the future. We could learn from what Ireland is doing across the water. It is facing the future, not the past. 

Because we are duty bound to our future, to the workers of tomorrow and the workers of today. We must have a green strategy to create green jobs, to show ambition. We have a duty to our children to create a way of working to generate energy, to empower our communities in a way that doesn't endanger our planet, to develop ways of living that can save our communities, that will recognise the dangers and risks of flooding, loss of biodiversity, of pollution in our water and our air. 

This isn't something we can simply put off, because the planet is burning around us and, in the UN's words, there is a rapidly narrowing window for Governments to move more quickly, since global greenhouse gas emissions have to peak by 2025 at the latest. And it is already so much later than we think. Our oceans are choking in plastic and our children are breathing toxic air. If we are to reach net zero in time—that phrase 'in time', because it doesn't bear thinking about what will happen if we don't do that in time—. But if we do, that will require transformations to be seen in our systems across all sectors, all contexts, including scaling up renewable energy, phasing out fossil fuels, ending deforestation and implementing both supply and demand side measures. 

We must have supply chains that reflect our global responsibility, that connect our communities, and which don't allow us to hide our consciences offshore, out of sight, out of mind, a system that empowers consumers to make ethical choices, both businesses and individuals. And we need to invest in skills development, in research, in innovation. But 'must' and 'need' aren't enough. Saying it isn't enough. We are compelled by the climate catastrophe to act, and to act now. 

It's a cause of great concern that the London-based parties, both the Tories and the Labour Party, are weakening their policies in these areas, driven by fear or a lack of ambition, rather than by determination. Plans were published in August to create more than 100 new oil and gas licences. Westminster intends to make it cheaper to pollute our air here than it is in the rest of Europe, to make it easier to put appalling things into our rivers. And just yesterday we heard that plans to ban petrol vehicles by 2030 are under threat, and there is concern that energy efficiency targets for landlords and measures to reduce traffic may also be under threat. These are grave and very concerning developments. 

Solutions won't come from Westminster. Indeed, as we've seen, it's they who are holding us back, but we must ensure that our ability to respond to the climate crisis won't be undermined as a result of these concerning developments.   

As things stand, energy generation possibilities are shared—. Forgive me. Energy responsibilities are shared between the UK and Welsh Governments, with Westminster holding powers over the oil and gas industry, the electricity industry, including generation, transmission, distribution and supply. The Wales Act 2017 devolved further responsibilities to the Senedd, including licensing and granting consent for onshore oil and gas projects, onshore wind projects and renewable energy projects under 350 MW. In the Climate Change Committee's balanced pathway, 57 per cent of the required emissions reductions they identify between 2020 and 2025 come from sectors particularly dependent on Westminster. That means that their lack of action is all the more maddening for us in Wales, and likewise the UK Government's failure to upgrade our power grid is holding us back, constraining our chance to deploy and develop renewable energy installations, preventing communities from creating closer links between local projects and the areas that they could benefit. 

All that potential, again, that's lying stagnant. The infuriating thing always about potential is that it is always in the future, at a remove, but it need not be that way. The full devolution of energy powers is a necessity for our nation's future. Having a comprehensive plan is a necessity to make the transition to our greener future something we can be excited about, and not frightened.

We have an opportunity now to benefit our future, to benefit our planet, to benefit the people of Wales, today and tomorrow. And I look forward to hearing the rest of the debate. 

I have selected the three amendments to the motion. If amendment 1 is agreed, amendments 2 and 3 will be deselected. I call on the Minister for Climate Change to formally move amendment 1, tabled in the name of Lesley Griffiths.

Formally.

I call on Janet Finch-Saunders to move amendments 2 and 3, tabled in the name of Darren Millar. 

Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd. And can I just put on record, please, my objections, really, to the Prime Minister of the United Kingdom being referred to by his surname? I think we should have a Senedd etiquette that the Prime Minister, whoever he should be, should actually be referred to by his correct name, and he is the Rt Hon Rishi Sunak MP, Prime Minister. I do think the use of somebody's last name—

You have just put that on record, Janet.

Thank you. So, the contracts for difference round 5—. Oh, and I have to say it's a bit rich for you to be denigrating the United Kingdom Government when they're way ahead of us in terms of their climate change objectives. [Interruption.]

Janet, your contribution.

I'm aware of the news and more will be revealed later. But for now, I am really proud of the progress they've made so far. When you can actually compare your lack of progress to them, then you need to perhaps look more at yourselves. 

Now, the contracts for difference round 5 allocation results highlight six exciting key projects for Wales, including Foel Trawsnant windfarm, Anglesey solar park and Ynni Llanw tidal power project. So there are positive outcomes from the bidding round—[Interruption.] There are positive outcomes from the bidding round, including as much as 3.7 GW of solar power, onshore wind and tidal power projects.

However, it remains the case that the Welsh Government are still not on track to meet your own 2050 decarbonisation targets. The Climate Change Committee report highlights that, since 2016, renewable deployment has slowed. Offshore wind capacity increased by 26 per cent in 2015; however, after that it stagnated, with no increase in operational capacity between 2016 and 2020. Operational capacity of onshore wind increased by 12 per cent in 2019 and largely plateaued thereafter. Installation of solar capacity has increased at a slower rate since 2016, and as this report states, the Welsh Government should work more closely as part of a Minister-led infrastructure delivery group, and in conjunction with the new electricity networks commissioner, to ensure enabling initiatives for energy infrastructure are taken forward at pace, and that necessary policy changes are implemented in Wales to deliver a decarbonised and resilient power system by 2035.

I have spoken to Lord Deben myself about the report, and highlighted too my serious concerns about the lack of attention given to the marine environment, which we’ve highlighted in the Welsh Parliament's climate change committee. It is unreasonable to keep pursuing tree planting on agricultural land when we know that marine ecosystems can capture far more carbon per acre than forests. A square metre of sea grass captures triple the equivalent amount from a rainforest and 10 times the amount from grassland. We could do so much more to guide nature restoration and energy production. If only you were to act on our request for a national spatial marine development plan, this would clearly empower this Welsh Parliament to work with stakeholders to decide what goes where.

Similarly, we don’t have a national hydrogen strategy, and I’ve got to be honest, how disappointing with the new Infrastructure (Wales) Bill coming forward that hydrogen isn’t even mentioned. You’ve slashed business rate relief for small, privately owned hydro schemes on our farms in Wales. Welsh Ministers need to introduce measures to encourage these privately owned schemes. You also need to work co-operatively with the UK Government, and we saw that exchange here last week, when you were saying that they hadn't engaged and Huw Irranca-Davies mentioned that there'd been some engagement. We had a letter from the Minister, quite pointedly saying where you hadn't engaged with them, so much so that it led to an apology from you, Minister. [Interruption.]

Now, the Trawsfynydd site has incredible potential to help boost the UK's energy security with Cwmni Egino's proposals for small modular reactor technology. It has exceptional access to grid capacity, so let's work together on that. Eryri National Park could be enhanced as a power park, and we should make the most of the brilliant investments by our UK Government, including £26 million for two free ports, £160 million in ports infrastructure and £500 million in Tata Steel. 

Whilst the Conservatives are ensuring that Wales has a world-leading green steel sector, this Welsh Government is indirectly supporting the offshoring of carbon footprints. We need to be realistic that 2050 is a quarter of a century away. We are now in that transition period, and during this transition period—

Janet, you need to conclude now, please.

—fossil fuels are required, and one way they could do that is to keep the Ffos-y-frân mine open. It is a fact that it holds the best anthracite, esteemed by many across the world. It burns a lot cleaner, yet you're prepared to import from countries like Kazakhstan, and it's dirty coal.

Janet, you've exceeded your time—you need to finish, please.

I'm finishing now. Wales has the potential to be an energy powerhouse, but there is a need for new actions and a need for new determination by the Welsh Government. I implore the Welsh Government, actually, to stop looking about at what the UK Government are doing and just concentrate on what you are responsible for here in Wales. Diolch.