16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782683 0 Cy 261104-0 I This is a draft version of the Record that includes the floor language and the simultaneous interpretation.  [R] indicates that the Member has declared an interest when tabling the business. 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782684 1 Cy 261104-0 I The Senedd met in the Chamber and by video-conference at 13:30 with the Deputy Presiding Officer (Kerry Ferguson) in the Chair. 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782686 2 Cy 2026-11-04T13:30:01 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16421?startPos=1&l=en 261104-1 1. Questions to the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality C 12177 12177 Kerry Ferguson https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12177 Deputy Presiding Officer Ferguson, Kerry Good afternoon, Members. We will begin this afternoon with questions to the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality. Question 1, Sarah Rees. 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782687 3 Cy 261104-1 1. Questions to the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality B The Welsh Benefits Charter 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782688 4 Cy 261104-1 1. Questions to the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality O 5196 5196 Sarah Rees https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=5196 Rees, Sarah 1. What assessment has the Welsh Government made of whether the implementation of the Welsh benefits charter is improving access to support for people in Pen-y-Bont Bro Morgannwg? OQ64830 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782689 5 Cy 2026-11-04T13:30:22 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16421?startPos=22&l=en 261104-1 1. Questions to the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality C 8670 8670 Sioned Williams https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=8670 Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality Williams, Sioned A recent review showed that Bridgend and the Vale of Glamorgan local authorities are making good progress in embedding the Welsh benefits charter's principles into the delivery of benefits. They are streamlining the administration processes to make it easier for people to benefit from council tax reduction, free school meals and the school essentials grant. 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782690 6 En 2026-11-04T13:30:48 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16421?startPos=48&l=en 261104-1 1. Questions to the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality C 5196 5196 Sarah Rees https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=5196 Rees, Sarah Thank you, Minister. Following a recent meeting with the Bevan Foundation, I discussed concerns that, whilst many families are struggling with the ever-increasing cost of living, an estimated £2 billion-worth of benefits goes unclaimed in Wales. How is the Welsh Government ensuring that the Welsh benefits charter is helping to reach people in need of support, who may be unaware of what they can claim, and that this is being delivered consistently across all local authorities? I'm sorry, I should have added at the start a declaration that, when I worked at Oxfam Cymru, I did support the Bevan Foundation with research into Welsh benefits. 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782693 7 Cy 2026-11-04T13:31:23 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16421?startPos=83&l=en 261104-1 1. Questions to the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality C 8670 8670 Sioned Williams https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=8670 Williams, Sioned Thank you very much for that important question. 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782694 8 En 2026-11-04T13:31:25 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16421?startPos=85&l=en 261104-1 1. Questions to the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality C 8670 8670 Sioned Williams https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=8670 Williams, Sioned This is really a key priority for this Government, because ensuring that people have got enough money in their pockets—money that they are eligible for because of low income or different circumstances—is the ultimate preventative measure, isn't it, and prevention is at the heart of this Government's work. So, we recognise the significant potential of this work of making it easier for people to be able to claim what's theirs, to be aware of what they can claim, and for that money to reach their pockets as quickly and as easily as possible. It's really such a key part of what we're trying to do as a part of this preventative agenda. We know, of course, that additional income won't prevent every household from falling into crisis, but it will prevent some, and that's a difference that's really worth making. 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782696 9 Cy 2026-11-04T13:32:22 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16421?startPos=142&l=en 261104-1 1. Questions to the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality C 8670 8670 Sioned Williams https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=8670 Williams, Sioned There's always room for improvement. I said in my first answer that good progress is being made. We conducted a review of progress on the charter over the summer, and it was encouraging across Wales—every local authority, including the two in your own constituency, have taken steps to simplify the way that Welsh benefits are administered, placing more emphasis on providing support that meets the needs of individuals. We know that data, data sharing and data access is very important in this area, because that, in reality, is what will make it easier to inform people and to know what they are eligible for so that they don't have to tell their story more than once. Bridgend and the Vale of Glamorgan are now using Department for Work and Pensions data to identify those people who are eligible for that council tax reduction automatically, so they don't have to make a separate application. I want to see that happening and that's the challenge I've given to the steering group on this work, to ensure that we make progress. I'm also urging the DWP to make sure that we can share the necessary data to help the councils in doing that. 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782711 10 En 2026-11-04T13:33:47 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16421?startPos=227&l=en 261104-1 1. Questions to the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality C 12148 12148 Gareth Thomas https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12148 Thomas, Gaz The Welsh Government's own progress report on phase 1 of streamlining Welsh benefits, published in April, admits that it has not been possible to establish a baseline take-up rate for council tax reduction, free school meals or the school essentials grant, and the longer term evaluation has not yet been looked at. Bridgend council took part in a Welsh Government pilot; the Vale of Glamorgan did not. The review of the pilot found that, on average, only around 15 per cent of households contacting each campaign went on to receive an award. Without a baseline, the Government cannot tell my constituents whether the Welsh benefits charter is working. Will the Cabinet Minister and Deputy First Minister commit to publishing take-up figures for each local authority and to agreeing a framework for evaluating the charter in the long term, so that progress in Bridgend and the Vale of Glamorgan can finally be measured? 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782714 11 En 2026-11-04T13:34:49 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16421?startPos=289&l=en 261104-1 1. Questions to the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality C 8670 8670 Sioned Williams https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=8670 Williams, Sioned Thank you. As I said, we have done a review of this. When I first chaired the steering group, back in July,  I asked members to shift their focus towards implementation, to make sure that we are delivering and make sure that those solutions are forthcoming, that they're not theoretic, rather than continue to revisit the challenges. We are going to bring more Welsh benefits within the scope. I think the foundations have been laid. It is definitely, as I said in my answer to Sarah Rees, 'Nid da lle gellir gwell'—we've got a way to go on this. I've made very clear that the commitment at the moment, which was developed in conjunction with stakeholders, including the WLGA, remains something that is not statutory at the moment. But I believe that, if progress in embedding the charter's principle within Welsh benefits delivery is not satisfactory, I have said that I will consider legislative options to strengthen those requirements. 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782695 12 En 2026-11-04T13:35:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16421?startPos=300&l=en 261104-1 1. Questions to the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality C 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782703 13 Cy 261104-1 1. Questions to the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality B The Armed Forces Covenant 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782704 14 Cy 261104-1 1. Questions to the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality O 171 171 Darren Millar https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=171 Leader of the Welsh Conservatives Millar, Darren 2. What action is the Welsh Government taking to ensure that the armed forces covenant is upheld in Wales? OQ64802 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782705 15 Cy 2026-11-04T13:36:11 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16421?startPos=371&l=en 261104-1 1. Questions to the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality C 8670 8670 Sioned Williams https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=8670 Williams, Sioned Thank you. We've included our support for the armed forces covenant as a commitment in our programme for government. The action we are currently taking includes providing funding for armed forces liaison officers and Veterans' NHS Wales. We are also preparing for the anticipated broadening of the covenant next year. 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782707 16 En 2026-11-04T13:36:34 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16421?startPos=394&l=en 261104-1 1. Questions to the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality C 171 171 Darren Millar https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=171 Millar, Darren Thank you for that answer, Minister. As you will be aware, the bombing of the RFA Sir Galahad was both a military and a Welsh tragedy. Forty-eight people lost their lives in that incident, 32 of which were Welsh Guards, and others, of course, suffered life-changing injuries. The survivors, veterans and bereaved families are still living with the consequences of that day in June 1982, and they're still awaiting answers from the many sealed documents and the lack of evidence that is in the public domain about what happened. In fact, some of those documents remain sealed, as I understand it, until 2065, which is obviously a very long time away and probably beyond the lifetime of some of those individuals who suffered that day and continue to suffer. Do you agree with me that the failure of the UK Government to publish that evidence is inconsistent with the armed forces covenant? Will you make representations as a Welsh Government, given the impact on Welsh families? And will you join me in asserting the rights of Falkland islanders to self-determination by agreeing with the statement that the Falkland Islands are British? 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782715 17 En 2026-11-04T13:37:47 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16421?startPos=467&l=en 261104-1 1. Questions to the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality C 8670 8670 Sioned Williams https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=8670 Williams, Sioned Obviously, foreign affairs are not devolved, but the first part of your question is really important. I know many Members here have heard testimony from Welsh Guards themselves and their families about the need for closure on that tragic incident that befell them with the Sir Galahad. Those records should absolutely be published. I know that the First Minister has given his commitment to make those representations. If that letter hasn't already gone, then it will, and I am completely in concord with that, that we should absolutely see justice for those families. They deserve to have the closure and the information about what happened with the Sir Galahad. 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782719 18 Cy 2026-11-04T13:38:37 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16421?startPos=517&l=en 261104-1 1. Questions to the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality C 5083 5083 Gwyn Williams https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=5083 Williams, Gwyn We in Swansea have been working with the Swansea Veterans Hub, who've highlighted some very real concerns about veterans suffering from post-traumatic stress disorder and being left with very little support to deal with this terrible condition, which is then linked to crime and substance abuse. I also visited Brynawel to see the important work they're doing in dealing with complex PTSD in our soldiers, even though they're hindered by the funding arrangements of the health boards and the related bureaucracy. This is so unfair. People who've put their lives and health on the line for their country deserve so much more. We have to take care of them. We owe it to them. The covenant highlighted by Darren Millar is exactly that: a sacred bond between our soldiers and the people they protect. May I invite the Cabinet Minister to visit our former soldiers in Swansea and commit to working with them to understand the complex PTSD they suffer from, so as to serve them better as part of this sacred covenant? 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782725 19 Cy 2026-11-04T13:39:44 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16421?startPos=584&l=en 261104-1 1. Questions to the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality C 8670 8670 Sioned Williams https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=8670 Williams, Sioned Thank you very much for raising that important issue in terms of veterans' mental health. I know that the Deputy Minister for Public and Preventative Health has visited the Brynawel residential rehabilitation centre recently to see the good work that's being done there. That included, of course, the work that they do with veterans. And I am aware that the Deputy Minister for Social Care, Mental Health and Women's Health is due to visit the Swansea veterans hub, and I'm always pleased to speak to veterans about their experience too. So, once the Deputy Minister has visited, I would be more than happy to engage with the veterans there in your constituency. I'm sure that her visit will provide a better understanding and a key understanding of the challenges facing veterans in accessing mental health support. That centre in Swansea is part of the Valour network in Wales, and I look forward to meeting with them at the Wales covenant conference on 19 November in Swansea. So, we do have an excellent network of veteran centres across Wales and I do look forward to hearing directly from them at that national conference. They are the experts on the front line and we do listen to them. Of course, the Welsh Government does provide £920,000 per annum to Veterans' NHS Wales, who work with veterans experiencing mental health problems related to their military service. 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782702 20 Cy 2026-11-04T13:40:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16421?startPos=600&l=en 261104-1 1. Questions to the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality C 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782924 21 Cy 261104-1 1. Questions to the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality B Questions Without Notice from Party Spokespeople 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782732 22 Cy 2026-11-04T13:41:45 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16421?startPos=705&l=en 261104-1 1. Questions to the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality C 12177 12177 Kerry Ferguson https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12177 Deputy Presiding Officer Ferguson, Kerry I now call on the party spokespeople to question the Cabinet Minister. The Reform UK spokesperson, Cristiana Emsley. 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782740 23 En 2026-11-04T13:41:51 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16421?startPos=711&l=en 261104-1 1. Questions to the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality C 12185 12185 Cristiana Emsley https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12185 Emsley, Cristiana Diolch. Deputy First Minister, let me set the scene for my scrutiny today. Last time we met across this Chamber, just before the recess, there was rather a lot of hyperventilation, but unfortunately no opportunity for me to intervene and challenge what you were saying. It appears that sometimes diversity stops where diversity of thought begins. So, I intend to use my parliamentary time today to ask what I was not afforded the time to ask then. So, let us keep the temperature down, focus on the substance and answer the questions actually being asked. So, let me begin with the first one: during that debate on the face coverings, you defended the wearing of the burqa on grounds of religious freedom. Can you identify the specific verse in the Koran that unequivocally requires a Muslim woman to cover her face? 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782742 24 En 2026-11-04T13:42:39 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16421?startPos=759&l=en 261104-1 1. Questions to the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality C 8670 8670 Sioned Williams https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=8670 Williams, Sioned I would just like to remind the Member that it was a Reform debate. You could have asked for a minute from your fellow Member, if you so wanted to. 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782743 25 En 2026-11-04T13:42:47 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16421?startPos=767&l=en 261104-1 1. Questions to the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality C 12185 12185 Cristiana Emsley https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12185 Emsley, Cristiana No, I ask you. Just answer the question now. 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782744 26 En 2026-11-04T13:42:49 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16421?startPos=769&l=en 261104-1 1. Questions to the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality C 8670 8670 Sioned Williams https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=8670 Williams, Sioned Well, I'm just reminding you in case you don't know how we do business in the Senedd. 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782745 27 En 2026-11-04T13:42:52 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16421?startPos=772&l=en 261104-1 1. Questions to the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality C 12185 12185 Cristiana Emsley https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12185 Emsley, Cristiana And I stood up actually and asked you— 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782746 28 En 2026-11-04T13:42:55 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16421?startPos=775&l=en 261104-1 1. Questions to the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality C 8670 8670 Sioned Williams https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=8670 Williams, Sioned I will tell you I absolutely reject any attempt to divide community— 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782750 29 En 2026-11-04T13:43:01 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16421?startPos=781&l=en 261104-1 1. Questions to the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality C 12185 12185 Cristiana Emsley https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12185 Emsley, Cristiana Answer the question. 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782752 30 En 2026-11-04T13:43:02 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16421?startPos=782&l=en 261104-1 1. Questions to the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality C 8670 8670 Sioned Williams https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=8670 Williams, Sioned Are you going to listen? I absolutely reject any attempts by any Member in this Chamber to divide communities by scapegoating, by insinuating and spreading false information, scaremongering. And I'm sure there are many, many—as we saw that evening—many Members in this Chamber who feel exactly the same as this Government. There is a persistent pattern of members of Reform and spokespeople using their position to fuel hate and division. So, I'm here in good faith—[Interruption.] 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782758 31 En 2026-11-04T13:43:42 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16421?startPos=822&l=en 261104-1 1. Questions to the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality C 12177 12177 Kerry Ferguson https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12177 Deputy Presiding Officer Ferguson, Kerry Can we please keep quiet while the Minister is afforded her parliamentary time to answer? 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782763 32 En 2026-11-04T13:43:47 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16421?startPos=827&l=en 261104-1 1. Questions to the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality C 8670 8670 Sioned Williams https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=8670 Williams, Sioned I'm here in good faith to answer questions of scrutiny on my work. I will do that. We are all elected to do so. It's a huge privilege, but, as I said that day, with that privilege comes a huge responsibility, and I'd remind the Member of that responsibility to be careful about the words that she uses. 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782780 33 En 2026-11-04T13:44:05 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16421?startPos=845&l=en 261104-1 1. Questions to the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality C 12185 12185 Cristiana Emsley https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12185 Emsley, Cristiana Minister, my responsibility is to scrutinise you and, as you refused the question, to enlighten you. There is no such requirement in the Koran. And let me tell you something, that is precisely the distinction you failed to make because women are entitled to have that distinction discussed without Ministers branding the debate itself as intolerant. That brings me to the second question. During that debate, you chose to compare Reform's position with the persecution of Jews in 1930s Germany and invoked the Nuremberg law. I have since been contacted by a Member of the Jewish community in Wales, Beth, who has expressly authorised me to raise her words in this Chamber. She writes, 'I'm Jewish and I found Miss Williams's words offensive in the extreme.' She describes your comparison as a false equivalence, which, in her words, minimises the horrors of the Nazi regime and says that using the persecution of the Jews in the 1930s to score political points was hard to listen to. But there's something else. Beth tells me that she cannot put those concerns directly to you because you've blocked her on social media. She said she's never sworn at you or been abusive. Deputy First Minister, you invoked the persecution of Jews to condemn your political opponents. A Jewish woman is now telling you that she found your words profoundly offensive, and she says you have denied her every opportunity to tell you so directly. So, I ask you a very simple question: will you apologise to Beth, unblock her, and listen to a Jewish woman whose history you chose to invoke? [Interruption.] I know the truth hurts. Or does your celebrated commitment to diversity and inclusion end once again where diversity of thought begins? 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782692 34 En 2026-11-04T13:45:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16421?startPos=900&l=en 261104-1 1. Questions to the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality C 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782697 35 En 2026-11-04T13:45:41 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16421?startPos=941&l=en 261104-1 1. Questions to the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality C 8670 8670 Sioned Williams https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=8670 Williams, Sioned I'll tell you what's offensive. You should have seen the messages that many of us, including many of us on this frontbench in the Government, received after that debate. They were horrified and intimidated, and felt unsafe and threatened by the language and tone of the debate that was used by Members on the Reform bench. I had so many messages in so many different forms. As to the point on social media, of course everybody is entitled to their opinion on the views that we take in this Chamber. I am very available as a Government Minister. I have a correspondence address, an e-mail address that is available to all. There is no need to use social media to get in touch—[Interruption.] I'm sorry? 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782706 36 En 2026-11-04T13:46:22 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16421?startPos=982&l=en 261104-1 1. Questions to the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality C 12185 12185 Cristiana Emsley https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12185 Emsley, Cristiana It's not public to all. If you write on social media, other people can see it.  16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782708 37 En 2026-11-04T13:46:26 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16421?startPos=986&l=en 261104-1 1. Questions to the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality C 12177 12177 Kerry Ferguson https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12177 Ferguson, Kerry Cristiana, can we not interrupt the Minister? 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782709 38 En 2026-11-04T13:46:28 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16421?startPos=988&l=en 261104-1 1. Questions to the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality C 8670 8670 Sioned Williams https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=8670 Williams, Sioned If she wants to send a message to me, then she can write to me as a Minister. I will finish my point. I just want to finish the point, because you weren't here, but when we were having—you did used to be a member, of course, of the Tory party—the toxic language from them about immigration, when that first started, and there were Tory Ministers talking about 'swarms'—I think it was Suella Braverman, who was also a Tory then, of course—coming across the channel, a holocaust survivor spoke out. I quoted her in a debate about that in this Chamber. What I was pointing out, and what she pointed out, face to face to those Tory Ministers in a public meeting, was how language can lead places. When we talk about people that are less than, and your fellow Member says that not all cultures are equal, that infers that some people who are of certain cultures are less than others. That's how things started. That's how things start.  16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782713 39 En 2026-11-04T13:47:35 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16421?startPos=1055&l=en 261104-1 1. Questions to the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality C 12185 12185 Cristiana Emsley https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12185 Emsley, Cristiana Deputy First Minister, I'm beginning to think that you may be Reform's greatest asset in this Chamber. Whenever we raise an uncomfortable question, you seem to determined to demonstrate precisely why it needs asking.  Anyway, this is my last question, you'll be relieved to hear. You recently admitted that there has been painfully little change in child poverty in Wales, and that deprivation is actually deepening. Around two in five children in Wales were living in income deprivation in 2024. Yet, when I questioned you in September, you told me your child poverty strategy still needed a tighter focus, measurable targets and milestones, and that you were working on what those targets should be.  Deputy First Minister, children cannot live on strategies, taskforces and targets that Governments are still designing. So, give me something measurable today: by the end of this Senedd term, by exactly how much will your Government reduce child poverty in Wales? Because if you cannot give us a number, how will anyone know whether your strategy has succeeded, and whether we'll simply—let me finish—be back here in four years discussing another strategy for the same failure? 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782722 40 En 2026-11-04T13:48:47 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16421?startPos=1127&l=en 261104-1 1. Questions to the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality C 8670 8670 Sioned Williams https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=8670 Williams, Sioned Again, I just feel that you need to understand that in order to arrive at a target, you need a strategy. You need to understand what levers the Welsh Government has, what control, what we can change, what we can implement, where we can move our resources. That is a strategy. The money follows the strategy. The policies follow the strategy. The work across Government will follow that strategy. That's what we're currently doing. We are meeting, as I think I said in the previous answer to you, in that previous question session, to make sure that we can do that work across Government as a sub-group of the Cabinet, and then, obviously, listening to stakeholders, policy experts and anti-poverty campaigners who've been doing this work for such a long time and have a lot to say about the strategy of the last Government.  That is what we are working on. I will be ready to consult on that strategy—because we have accelerated this work—in the new year. It will be ready then. It's a statutory consultation, to be able to hear those views, to make sure that we're on the right track. What I'm absolutely clear about is that we will focus the priorities of this Government on efforts on the key policies that will have the biggest impact to shift that dial on those things that are within our power. 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782698 41 En 2026-11-04T13:50:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16421?startPos=1200&l=en 261104-1 1. Questions to the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality C 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782734 42 En 2026-11-04T13:54:34 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16421?startPos=1474&l=en 261104-1 1. Questions to the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality C 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782699 43 Cy 2026-11-04T13:50:09 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16421?startPos=1209&l=en 261104-1 1. Questions to the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality C 12177 12177 Kerry Ferguson https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12177 Deputy Presiding Officer Ferguson, Kerry Welsh Labour spokesperson, Shav Taj. 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782701 44 En 2026-11-04T13:50:13 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16421?startPos=1213&l=en 261104-1 1. Questions to the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality C 12175 12175 Shav Taj https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12175 Taj, Shav I'll get back to the business of the Senedd. Diolch, Deputy Llywydd. As we count down the days until the Welsh Government's draft budget, I'd like to ask the Minister what consideration she has given to the idea of gender budgeting. This should be a simple commitment that helps the Government to reach its equality objectives and advance gender equality in all sectors of Wales. Women's Equality Network Wales has told Senedd Members that it is concerned at the lack of emphasis and momentum around gender budgeting, and that this could actually endanger the progress that we've made with the previous Welsh Labour Government. This is obviously recognised internationally as an approach, and we know that it works. I'm sure the Minister would not want Wales to miss out on the opportunity to use gender budgeting to advance her important objectives. So, could she please assure us by telling us what sorts of conversations she's had with the finance Minister and Cabinet colleagues about gender budgeting in future Welsh Government spending, please? 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782717 45 Cy 2026-11-04T13:51:18 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16421?startPos=1278&l=en 261104-1 1. Questions to the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality C 8670 8670 Sioned Williams https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=8670 Williams, Sioned Thank you for the question. 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782718 46 En 2026-11-04T13:51:20 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16421?startPos=1280&l=en 261104-1 1. Questions to the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality C 8670 8670 Sioned Williams https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=8670 Williams, Sioned It's a really important point. Obviously, we're in the middle of those budget discussions now, but we are carefully considering the impacts of all the decisions that we are making. It's going to be a very difficult budget, as we've heard the Cabinet Minister for Finance outline. So, we are going to have to take difficult choices, but we are absolutely clear that we want to take the learning from the pilots that have happened around gender budgeting, and also, of course, the wider impacts that we need to consider on vulnerable groups, on children and young people, in our budgetary decisions. One thing that I think we've been very clear on, and I think it's something that will be evident in the budget, and was evident in the supplementary budget yesterday, is the strides that we are taking on a very important measure for gender equality, which will absolutely impact women and those who give care, which is, of course, ploughing ahead with our very ambitious childcare programme. I'm hoping that the work of the Government in that regard will demonstrate how we are really ensuring that every pound that we spend will have a big impact on equality, and gender equality specifically. 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782720 47 En 2026-11-04T13:52:50 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16421?startPos=1370&l=en 261104-1 1. Questions to the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality C 12175 12175 Shav Taj https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12175 Taj, Shav Okay. And that will be done across the different Cabinet responsibilities, of course, because it's an issue that will touch on every side.  16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782721 48 En 2026-11-04T13:52:57 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16421?startPos=1377&l=en 261104-1 1. Questions to the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality C 8670 8670 Sioned Williams https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=8670 Williams, Sioned Of course. 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782723 49 En 2026-11-04T13:52:58 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16421?startPos=1378&l=en 261104-1 1. Questions to the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality C 12175 12175 Shav Taj https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12175 Taj, Shav On to my second question. Nine in 10 school support staff in Wales are women, which means that when Unison Cymru's report evidences staff having to take second jobs and in some cases rely on foodbanks so that they don't go hungry, this immediately becomes an equality issue. As the Minister responsible for social justice, equality and social partnership, could you take this opportunity to outline the conversations that you've had with the education Minister in relation to this time-sensitive matter? School support staff are waiting for a better deal that ends the injustice of term-time-only pay. Will the Minister commit to ensuring this predominantly female workforce doesn't get left behind while progress is being made with the Labour Government for workers in England? Will you commit to pay justice? And equally, will you press the education Minister to start work to establish a Wales school support staff negotiating body? 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782726 50 Cy 2026-11-04T13:54:03 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16421?startPos=1443&l=en 261104-1 1. Questions to the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality C 8670 8670 Sioned Williams https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=8670 Williams, Sioned Thank you for the question. 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782727 51 En 2026-11-04T13:54:04 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16421?startPos=1444&l=en 261104-1 1. Questions to the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality C 8670 8670 Sioned Williams https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=8670 Williams, Sioned Of course, this is a decision that lies with the Cabinet Minister for Education and the Welsh Language. So, obviously, we can have inter-ministerial meetings, as you say, when a workforce is predominantly of one gender, but it's not a given either, is it? Anybody can become a teaching support member of staff. This is something that— 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782733 52 En 2026-11-04T13:54:31 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16421?startPos=1471&l=en 261104-1 1. Questions to the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality C 12175 12175 Shav Taj https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12175 Taj, Shav Nine in 10 school support staff, though, are women.  16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782736 53 En 2026-11-04T13:54:34 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16421?startPos=1474&l=en 261104-1 1. Questions to the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality C 12177 12177 Kerry Ferguson https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12177 Deputy Presiding Officer Ferguson, Kerry Shav, don't interrupt the Minister when she's answering the question. Thank you. 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782738 54 En 2026-11-04T13:54:37 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16421?startPos=1477&l=en 261104-1 1. Questions to the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality C 12175 12175 Shav Taj https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12175 Taj, Shav Apologies. 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782739 55 En 2026-11-04T13:54:38 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16421?startPos=1478&l=en 261104-1 1. Questions to the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality C 8670 8670 Sioned Williams https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=8670 Williams, Sioned I will just say that this is a decision—. We have previously committed to look at this, I know. And obviously, through social partnership, as we do through the social partnership council, and many of the work streams that pertain to that, the groups that pertain to that council, this is an issue that we will obviously discuss in social partnership with the unions and the bodies that represent that workforce. But it isn't a decision for me. 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782700 56 En 2026-11-04T13:55:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16421?startPos=1500&l=en 261104-1 1. Questions to the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality C 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782712 57 Cy 2026-11-04T13:55:07 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16421?startPos=1507&l=en 261104-1 1. Questions to the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality C 12177 12177 Kerry Ferguson https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12177 Deputy Presiding Officer Ferguson, Kerry Welsh Conservative spokesperson, Peter Fox. 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782716 58 En 2026-11-04T13:55:10 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16421?startPos=1510&l=en 261104-1 1. Questions to the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality C 4787 4787 Peter Fox https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=4787 Fox, Peter Diolch, Ddirprwy Lywydd. Deputy First Minister, we are approaching that time of year where we focus on remembrance, where we come together to honour the service and sacrifice of those who have served in our armed forces. Whilst remembrance is an important opportunity to reflect on that service and the immense sacrifices that were made to ensure that we are able to live our lives today, it's a timely moment to consider how we support veterans and their families in their day-to-day lives once their military service has ended. Ahead of Remembrance Day, will you, Deputy First Minister, outline what support the Welsh Government is providing to veterans and their families across Wales and what further action is being taken to ensure those who have served our country receive timely access to housing, healthcare and mental health support?  16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782724 59 Cy 2026-11-04T13:56:03 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16421?startPos=1563&l=en 261104-1 1. Questions to the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality C 8670 8670 Sioned Williams https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=8670 Williams, Sioned Thank you very much for the question. It is extremely important during this period of remembrance—remembrance of the sacrifices that have been made by those who have served in the armed forces and have experienced war and fighting and the impact that that has had on them in terms of their physical and mental health, as we were discussing earlier. But we also need to bear in mind that there is life after service and that there are also families attached to that sacrifice. It can be a sacrifice not just in terms of loss in losing members of one's family, but also in terms of what that service has meant to families. I have spoken to a number of partners of those currently serving and partners of veterans, and they have described to me how difficult it can be for them and their families. Even if the partner isn't engaged in war, they often have to move at short notice and the children have to settle very quickly in different schools and so on. Sometimes, some of the women tell me that it can be very difficult to get work. These are people who want to work, who have qualifications and a lot to offer, but they can't get a job. If they're posted to Germany, for example, they can only work on the base. So, they sometimes find that that can be a frustration and a sacrifice too for the benefit of their partner's career. This Government is entirely clear that we have a debt to pay to members of our armed forces. Ensuring that we support the armed forces covenant across public services is part of our programme for government. I see it as an issue that is particularly pertinent to social justice and equalities because what we are seeking to do through what we fund and support is to reduce any disadvantage faced by members of the armed forces. I will be taking a paper to Cabinet on this issue and the further action that we can take in this area at the end of the month. 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782760 60 Cy 261104-1 1. Questions to the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality B Free School Meals 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782761 61 Cy 261104-1 1. Questions to the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality O 12141 12141 Zaynub Akbar https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12141 Akbar, Zaynub 3. What discussions has the Cabinet Minister had with the Cabinet Minister for Education and the Welsh Language about ensuring that secondary school pupils affected by a no recourse to public funds restriction can access free school meals? OQ64813 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782762 62 En 2026-11-04T13:58:42 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16421?startPos=1722&l=en 261104-1 1. Questions to the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality C 8670 8670 Sioned Williams https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=8670 Williams, Sioned Tackling child poverty is a key commitment for this Government. The Cabinet Minister for Education and the Welsh Language and I have been briefed on the potential need to support learners from households with no recourse to public funds. We are now considering what further support may be required. 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782759 63 En 2026-11-04T13:58:59 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16421?startPos=1739&l=en 261104-1 1. Questions to the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality C 12141 12141 Zaynub Akbar https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12141 Akbar, Zaynub Free school meals are one of the most effective ways to tackle child poverty and hunger, improve children's health and well-being, support educational attainment and ease financial pressures on families. To put it into monetary value, they are worth over £500 for every single child every year in Wales, with their wider social and economic benefits extending far beyond this figure. Yet secondary school pupils with no recourse to public funds in Wales cannot access these free school meals, unlike in England. Families already blocked from accessing life-changing benefits and housing support are also being excluded from this essential provision. Recent proposals by the UK Labour Government settlement changes could now leave families struggling for years longer, deepening poverty and exposing the cracks in an already inadequate safety net. No child should go hungry because of their immigration status. We cannot claim to tackle child poverty while denying some children the support that they need. With this in mind, I'd like to ask two questions. First, what progress has been made towards a joined-up strategy with local authorities and third sector partners to prevent destitution among migrants and sanctuary seekers— 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782710 64 En 2026-11-04T14:00:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16421?startPos=1800&l=en 261104-1 1. Questions to the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality C 12141 12141 Zaynub Akbar https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12141 Akbar, Zaynub I'd like to ask two questions. First, what progress has been made towards a joined-up strategy with local authorities and third sector partners to prevent destitution among migrants and sanctuary seekers— 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782728 65 En 2026-11-04T14:00:10 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16421?startPos=1810&l=en 261104-1 1. Questions to the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality C 12177 12177 Kerry Ferguson https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12177 Deputy Presiding Officer Ferguson, Kerry Can I ask you to conclude, please? 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782730 66 En 2026-11-04T14:00:12 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16421?startPos=1812&l=en 261104-1 1. Questions to the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality C 12141 12141 Zaynub Akbar https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12141 Akbar, Zaynub Yes—with no recourse to public funds? And second, when will secondary school pupils with no recourse to public funds be able to access their free school meals they're entitled to? 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782731 67 Cy 2026-11-04T14:00:21 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16421?startPos=1821&l=en 261104-1 1. Questions to the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality C 8670 8670 Sioned Williams https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=8670 Williams, Sioned Thank you for those important questions.  16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782735 68 En 2026-11-04T14:01:25 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16421?startPos=1885&l=en 261104-1 1. Questions to the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality C 8670 8670 Sioned Williams https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=8670 Williams, Sioned Of course, immigration policy, including no recourse to public funds, is reserved to the UK Government, but we absolutely recognise the pressures faced by people, and young people, in Wales subject to this condition. So, we absolutely recognise it can create barriers to accessing support. Our guidance on supporting families with no recourse to public funds reminds local authorities of their discretionary powers under the Education Act of 1996 to provide meals free of charge, because no child should miss out on learning because they're hungry. That's why, of course, Plaid Cymru campaigned so hard for free school meals in primary schools, and also now we are working to expand that in a phased way, starting with the poorest children—those who are on universal credit—with no income limit then for them, for their families to be able to start expanding that into secondary schools. So, officials are still working closely with local authorities, reminding them of their discretionary powers, and through, of course, the Welsh Local Government Association to understand local circumstances, barriers and opportunities. And the Cabinet Minister for Education and the Welsh Language will also meet the Bevan Foundation to discuss this next month. So, I'm sure, following that meeting, that the Cabinet Minister and I will consider that evidence, and then that will inform our future policy approach. But in the meantime, this Government encourages schools and local authorities to ensure that no child who arrives hungry is denied a meal in school.  16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782753 69 En 2026-11-04T14:02:11 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16421?startPos=1931&l=en 261104-1 1. Questions to the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality C 12171 12171 David Mills https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12171 Mills, David I have some real concerns about this approach. A ‘no recourse to public funds’ determination is usually made for those who are in this country unlawfully, or those granted limited leave to remain, where they are required to support themselves and their families as a condition of their residency. It would be wholly inappropriate for the Welsh Government to use Welsh taxpayers' money to extend state-funded benefits to families in circumstances where the UK Government has deliberately placed restrictions on the access to their public support. More broadly, as children progress into secondary school, surely parental responsibility must remain paramount. The state should not become a substitute for parents in raising their children. With Wales recording such poor educational outcomes, shouldn't our limited education budget be focused on improving literacy, numeracy and standards in our classroom, rather than continually expanding free provision, particularly to those— 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782782 70 En 2026-11-04T14:02:31 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16421?startPos=1951&l=en 261104-1 1. Questions to the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality C 12177 12177 Kerry Ferguson https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12177 Deputy Presiding Officer Ferguson, Kerry Can I ask you to conclude, please? 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782783 71 En 2026-11-04T14:02:32 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16421?startPos=1952&l=en 261104-1 1. Questions to the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality C 12171 12171 David Mills https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12171 Mills, David —with no recourse to public funds? 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782784 72 En 2026-11-04T14:03:39 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16421?startPos=2019&l=en 261104-1 1. Questions to the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality C 8670 8670 Sioned Williams https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=8670 Williams, Sioned I want to just make a point of fact here: that ‘no recourse to public funds’ is a visa condition restricting access to certain benefits and housing support. People on work or family visas can be affected. They're here legally. If they have children and they're in a difficult situation, then I would hope that most Members of this Chamber would want for this Government to find a way to make sure that those children are able to avail themselves of a hot meal when they get to school.  16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782785 73 En 2026-11-04T14:04:22 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16421?startPos=2062&l=en 261104-1 1. Questions to the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality C 12176 12176 Paul Rock https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12176 Rock, Paul Diolch, Zaynub, for highlighting this clear injustice. Learners in England are able to access free school meals regardless of their parents' immigration status, and this is something that I think can and must be replicated across Wales. It is, of course, a simple matter of fairness, but the idea that free school meals should be denied to specific pupils who need them is a false economy. We know that for a relatively small amount of money, free school meals create huge educational and health benefits for pupils, helping them to keep  16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782729 74 En 2026-11-04T14:05:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16421?startPos=2100&l=en 261104-1 1. Questions to the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality C 12176 12176 Paul Rock https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12176 Rock, Paul helping them to keep well-nourished and ready to learn. What representations is the Minister making to UK Government to mitigate the harms of no recourse to public funds restrictions to the health and well-being of learners, or, even better, will you join the Greens in calling for the abolition of no recourse to public funds conditions, which only exacerbate social, economic and racial inequalities?  16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782737 75 En 2026-11-04T14:05:23 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16421?startPos=2123&l=en 261104-1 1. Questions to the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality C 8670 8670 Sioned Williams https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=8670 Williams, Sioned Diolch. As I said, this isn't a devolved policy area. It will be for the Cabinet Minister for Education and the Welsh Language to make those representations directly, Minister to Minister. But, as I've said, we know that, in some local authorities, there is an inconsistency as regards how those discretionary powers under the education Act are applied. We will continue to work across devolved policy areas to consider what more can be done within our responsibilities to support people affected by no recourse to public funds, and that, of course, would include children of those families. 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782747 76 Cy 261104-1 1. Questions to the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality B Ending Poverty 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782748 77 Cy 261104-1 1. Questions to the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality O 5025 5025 Anthony Slaughter https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=5025 Slaughter, Anthony 4. What assessment has the Cabinet Minister made of the impact of the UK Government budget on the Welsh Government's work to end poverty? OQ64829 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782751 78 Cy 2026-11-04T14:06:18 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16421?startPos=2178&l=en 261104-1 1. Questions to the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality C 8670 8670 Sioned Williams https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=8670 Williams, Sioned Thank you very much for the question. 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782749 79 En 2026-11-04T14:07:21 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16421?startPos=2241&l=en 261104-1 1. Questions to the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality C 8670 8670 Sioned Williams https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=8670 Williams, Sioned This was not a budget that delivered for Wales. We welcome measures, of course, within that budget, to ease some pressures on Welsh households, including action on energy costs, on fuel duty and on wages. But tackling poverty requires sustained targeted action, including, for example, on social tariffs, removing the benefit cap and increasing the local housing allowance. 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782754 80 En 2026-11-04T14:06:51 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16421?startPos=2211&l=en 261104-1 1. Questions to the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality C 5025 5025 Anthony Slaughter https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=5025 Slaughter, Anthony Diolch. I was pleased to see, in your recent letter with the Scottish Government, a call on the UK Government to put measures to tackle poverty at the heart of this annual budget. However, as you referenced, it seems that your calls to unfreeze the local housing allowance have once again been disregarded. We know that raising local housing allowance rates is one of the most impactful things the UK Government could do now to help people living in poverty, as the long-term freeze, in conjunction with the serious lack of social homes, has been perpetuating homelessness and housing insecurity for far too long. According to data from Crisis, in my constituency of Cardiff Penarth, less than 1 per cent of homes in the private rental sector are affordable at LHA rates, with households needing to find thousands of pounds to make up for shortfall. In the absence of support from the Westminster Government, what more can the Minister do, working with the Cabinet Minister for Local Government, Housing and Planning, to protect people from deepening housing poverty across Wales? 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782781 81 Cy 2026-11-04T14:07:59 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16421?startPos=2279&l=en 261104-1 1. Questions to the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality C 8670 8670 Sioned Williams https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=8670 Williams, Sioned Thank you very much. The UK Government could have taken those further steps to target support for those who need it most, and I do think that one of the clearest gaps in terms of providing that support in the UK Government's budget was the decision not to unfreeze the local housing allowance. We consider that restoring the LHA, alongside the situation in the rental market currently, as you mentioned, would have such an effect on stopping homelessness and sleeping on the streets—something that the Prime Minister and the Chancellor talked about as part of what they wanted to see as central to their vision. 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782786 82 En 2026-11-04T14:09:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16421?startPos=2340&l=en 261104-1 1. Questions to the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality C 8670 8670 Sioned Williams https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=8670 Williams, Sioned In Wales, the freeze in LHA has that disproportionate impact on our households. Private sector rents increased by 4.5 per cent in the year to July this year, exceeding the UK average of 3.7 per cent. And we've had that report, haven't we, by Crisis Cymru, highlighting that this continued freeze is leaving so many vulnerable households unable to meet their housing costs and at a greater risk of homelessness. So, yes, unfreezing these rates would be consistent with the Prime Minister's stated aim and commitment to end homelessness, but what we are doing within our own powers, of course, is trying to support people with the cost of living. Our immediate focus is on helping to reduce costs for families. We want to maximise incomes because, for me, as I was saying in my earlier answers on the Welsh benefit system, getting that money 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782741 83 En 2026-11-04T14:10:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16421?startPos=2400&l=en 261104-1 1. Questions to the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality C 8670 8670 Sioned Williams https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=8670 Williams, Sioned getting that money for which people are eligible into their pockets, while those welfare levels are often not sufficient. If we can just make sure they get everything that they can possibly have, that will help, obviously, boost household incomes and ensure—. For me as well, it's about dignity; it's not just about pounds and pence. We have a duty, as a Government, to look after and respect the people we are here to serve and making sure that everyone can afford a safe and warm home is surely the most essential thing that we can do. 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782764 84 En 2026-11-04T14:10:57 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16421?startPos=2457&l=en 261104-1 1. Questions to the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality C 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782765 85 En 2026-11-04T14:10:57 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16421?startPos=2457&l=en 261104-1 1. Questions to the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality C 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782766 86 En 2026-11-04T14:10:57 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16421?startPos=2457&l=en 261104-1 1. Questions to the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality C 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782767 87 En 2026-11-04T14:10:57 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16421?startPos=2457&l=en 261104-1 1. Questions to the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality C 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782768 88 En 2026-11-04T14:10:57 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16421?startPos=2457&l=en 261104-1 1. Questions to the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality C 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782769 89 En 2026-11-04T14:10:57 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16421?startPos=2457&l=en 261104-1 1. Questions to the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality C 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782770 90 En 2026-11-04T14:10:57 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16421?startPos=2457&l=en 261104-1 1. Questions to the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality C 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782771 91 En 2026-11-04T14:10:57 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16421?startPos=2457&l=en 261104-1 1. Questions to the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality C 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782772 92 En 2026-11-04T14:10:57 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16421?startPos=2457&l=en 261104-1 1. Questions to the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality C 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782773 93 En 2026-11-04T14:10:57 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16421?startPos=2457&l=en 261104-1 1. Questions to the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality C 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782774 94 En 2026-11-04T14:10:57 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16421?startPos=2457&l=en 261104-1 1. Questions to the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality C 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782755 95 Cy 261104-1 1. Questions to the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality B The Disabled People's Rights Plan 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782756 96 Cy 261104-1 1. Questions to the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality O 4967 4967 Lyn Ackerman https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=4967 Ackerman, Lyn 5. How is the Cabinet Minister working with the Cabinet Minister for Enterprise, Connectivity and Energy to implement the commitments on digital inclusion in the disabled people's rights plan? OQ64832 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782757 97 En 2026-11-04T14:10:56 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16421?startPos=2456&l=en 261104-1 1. Questions to the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality C 8670 8670 Sioned Williams https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=8670 Williams, Sioned We are working together to deliver the plan’s digital inclusion commitments. Through the digital inclusion Wales programme and grants, we’re supporting help in local communities and access to accessible technology, so disabled people can build confidence and use the services they need. 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782779 98 En 2026-11-04T14:11:14 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16421?startPos=2474&l=en 261104-1 1. Questions to the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality C 4967 4967 Lyn Ackerman https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=4967 Ackerman, Lyn Could the Minister outline how the Government is working across portfolios to ensure that accessibility is built into delivery of public services, including the provision of suitable alternatives for people who cannot use digital systems? 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782778 99 En 2026-11-04T14:11:30 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16421?startPos=2490&l=en 261104-1 1. Questions to the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality C 8670 8670 Sioned Williams https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=8670 Williams, Sioned Thanks for that really important question. Accessibility is a cross-Government responsibility, so the disabled people's rights plan and digital service standard for Wales support services are built then around people's needs. Of course, digital inclusion means not digital only, doesn't it? It means that suitable telephone, face-to-face or paper alternatives must remain available where needed. We know that too many disabled people in Wales still face unequal access to public services, so, grounded in the social model of disability, our disabled people's rights plan provides a shared framework for action to address those inequalities across Government in health, in education, in housing, in transport, in employment, in childcare and beyond. The social model, in essence, means removing barriers, doesn't it, understanding that it's barriers that disabled people face, and those are the things that we need to remove from society. So, with partners, including health and transport employers, we're making systems accessible, protecting and improving British Sign Language, telephone, face-to-face and written access, and developing also safeguards for disabled people to access and spend cash. 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782788 100 Cy 261104-1 1. Questions to the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality B Support for People Leaving Prison 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782789 101 Cy 261104-1 1. Questions to the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality O 4983 4983 Jane Dodds https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=4983 Dodds, Jane 6. What support is the Welsh Government providing to people leaving prison? OQ64812 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782790 102 Cy 2026-11-04T14:13:02 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16421?startPos=2582&l=en 261104-1 1. Questions to the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality C 8670 8670 Sioned Williams https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=8670 Williams, Sioned Although justice is currently reserved to the UK Government, we work closely with His Majesty's Prison and Probation Service, local authorities and other justice partners to support people leaving prison to access accommodation, healthcare, substance misuse services and wider support. Effective resettlement is crucial to reducing reoffending, improving outcomes and enabling successful reintegration into communities. 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782777 103 Cy 2026-11-04T14:13:34 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16421?startPos=2614&l=en 261104-1 1. Questions to the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality C 4983 4983 Jane Dodds https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=4983 Dodds, Jane Thank you very much, and that's the point, isn't it, that we are responsible for the services once they've left prison. 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782776 104 En 2026-11-04T14:13:41 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16421?startPos=2621&l=en 261104-1 1. Questions to the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality C 4983 4983 Jane Dodds https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=4983 Dodds, Jane A report published by the Welsh Governance Centre found that more than a third of people who died after leaving prison in Wales last year died as a result of drug-related causes. The report also found that nearly 700 people were released into rough sleeping in Wales, and that number has now risen for four years in a row. These are people who have served their sentences and should have the chance to get their lives back on track, but, instead, too many are leaving prison with no stable home, no proper support and nowhere to turn to. The report itself also directly questions whether the Welsh Government support for people with substance use problems and for those leaving custody is really fit for purpose. Whilst, obviously, as you've said, we continue to push for the devolution of justice, the Welsh Government already has the powers over those services. So, Deputy First Minister, this is the key question: what action will you take now to ensure that nobody leaves prison in Wales with nowhere to live and nowhere to turn to for treatment? Diolch yn fawr iawn. 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782775 105 Cy 2026-11-04T14:14:50 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16421?startPos=2690&l=en 261104-1 1. Questions to the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality C 8670 8670 Sioned Williams https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=8670 Williams, Sioned Thank you. I want to put on record the debt that we have to academics such as Dr Rob Jones, who draw continuous attention 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782791 106 Cy 2026-11-04T14:15:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16421?startPos=2700&l=en 261104-1 1. Questions to the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality C 8670 8670 Sioned Williams https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=8670 Williams, Sioned who draw continuous attention to this. What would we do without those academics who help us to understand policy outcomes, and how we can look to improve what we’re doing for the benefit of the people of Wales—for example, people who leave prison? Of course, as we mentioned, our manifesto and our programme for government have restated our long-standing commitment to continue to try and devolve justice; it’s something, of course, the results of this report that has been published by the Wales Governance Centre strengthens the case for this so that we can bring together these services better to ensure that we can respond to the needs and situations of released prisoners in a better manner. There is a need for more co-ordination between the justice system and the devolved responsibilities, and this is so clear; they would reduce reoffending and improve, of course, the outcomes for people who are released. So, we want to ensure our priority, of course, is to reduce homelessness. We need to note housing needs earlier at all times, and then expect services to work together before prisoners are released. We know too often that not enough notice is given and then people find themselves in a situation where they’re homeless, and that clearly, as we know, the importance of a stable home, and that can lead to all sorts of pressures on individuals, and it can lead to the fact that you don’t have anywhere to live; perhaps you’re going to turn to breaking the law. We’ve had examples, haven’t we, of people doing that in order to have a roof over their heads. So, it is a situation that we have to address. We’re thankful for the report’s outcomes and this will weave into our work and what we can manage, but again, it makes that case over devolving justice even stronger. 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782816 107 Cy 261104-1 1. Questions to the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality B The Safety of Women and Girls 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782817 108 Cy 261104-1 1. Questions to the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality O 336 336 Natasha Asghar https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=336 Asghar, Natasha 7. What action is the Welsh Government taking to protect the safety of women and girls? OQ64800 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782818 109 Cy 2026-11-04T14:17:27 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16421?startPos=2847&l=en 261104-1 1. Questions to the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality C 8670 8670 Sioned Williams https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=8670 Williams, Sioned Within our first 100 days, we completed a review of the violence against women, domestic abuse and sexual violence national strategy. We are acting on its findings to publish by next summer a prevention-led approach to ending VAWDASV. This requires collective action to make Wales safer for women and girls. 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782815 110 En 2026-11-04T14:17:54 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16421?startPos=2874&l=en 261104-1 1. Questions to the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality C 336 336 Natasha Asghar https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=336 Asghar, Natasha Thanks for your response. Cabinet Minister, you may claim that this Government is all about protecting women and girls across Wales, but the rhetoric simply doesn’t match the action. To be able to truly keep women and girls safe, we must first understand and defend their rights. I’m pleased to be sharing the Senedd’s first cross-party group on women’s and girls’ rights, and it’s an important milestone and it’s great to have Reform Members, Labour Members, and I’m hoping to see a Lib Dem Member in there as well very soon with us. Now, we did have Plaid Cymru representation on the CPG, but the MS was forced to resign because it doesn’t align with your party’s values. Deputy Minister, I a, appalled, truly, and disgusted, that Plaid Cymru is so brazen about admitting that protecting women and girls’ rights doesn’t align with your views and values. Perhaps more shocking is that a Plaid Cymru MS was, according to media reports, bullied by male staffers into leaving the group. Deputy Minister, this really does show that Plaid Cymru doesn’t really care about protecting women and girls—and are the allegations that men within Plaid Cymru bullied one of the party members into withdrawing from an important CPG actually true? 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782881 111 Cy 2026-11-04T14:19:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16421?startPos=2940&l=en 261104-1 1. Questions to the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality C 8670 8670 Sioned Williams https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=8670 Williams, Sioned I would ask the Member to pause and to understand that these are very sensitive issues. I do think it's important that we, in the first instance, don't confuse the rights of women and girls with anything that relates to the safeguarding of women, something that I mentioned in my initial response to you. Our priority is clear: preventing violence against women and safeguarding women and girls. That is part of our programme for government to ensure that victims and survivors get the support that they need. In terms of the Supreme Court ruling, then, of course, we ensure that we comply with the law, as was explained by the court, and that is what we are doing  16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782792 112 En 2026-11-04T14:20:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16421?startPos=3000&l=en 261104-1 1. Questions to the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality C 8670 8670 Sioned Williams https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=8670 Williams, Sioned dyna beth rydyn ni'n ei wneud er mwyn sicrhau ein bod ni'n parchu pawb yn ein cymdeithas a chadw pawb yn ein cymdeithas yn diogel. 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782793 113 Cy 2026-11-04T14:20:10 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16421?startPos=3010&l=en 261104-1 1. Questions to the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality C 12177 12177 Kerry Ferguson https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12177 Deputy Presiding Officer Ferguson, Kerry Thank you. And the final question for you, Deputy First Minister, is question 8, Marc Jones. 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782794 114 Cy 261104-1 1. Questions to the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality B Homelessness 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782795 115 Cy 261104-1 1. Questions to the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality O 350 350 Marc Jones https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=350 Jones, Marc 8. What discussions has the Cabinet Minister had with the UK Government on the relationship between prisoner release and the rising levels of homelessness? OQ64833 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782796 116 Cy 2026-11-04T14:20:25 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16421?startPos=3025&l=en 261104-1 1. Questions to the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality C 8670 8670 Sioned Williams https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=8670 Williams, Sioned Thank you very much. Our priority is clear: people should not leave prison into homelessness. Although justice is currently reserved to the UK Government, decisions about prisoner release directly affect devolved services in Wales, including, of course, housing. We continue to work closely with His Majesty's Prison and Probation Service and justice partners to improve planning for Welsh people leaving custody. 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782799 117 Cy 2026-11-04T14:20:57 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16421?startPos=3057&l=en 261104-1 1. Questions to the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality C 350 350 Marc Jones https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=350 Jones, Marc Jane Dodds has already referred to this, so I will ask a slightly different question, based on the situation locally in Wrexham. Nobody should leave prison to face rough sleeping, and that's what happened to six out of 10 prisoners who were released from Berwyn prison last year. That's unforgiveable. The number of people sleeping rough in Wrexham is increasing. Last year, 215 Berwyn prisoners were released to sleep rough on their first night. And these shocking figures came before the latest UK Government early release programme, so I am deeply concerned that we will see the situation worsen. That's why I want to ask the question, because it has a very detrimental impact on the services that we have locally in trying to deal with the problems of these former prisoners. [Interruption.] If I could just ask a question. What information have you received from the Government in London to help to reduce the number of former prisoners who are forced to sleep rough? 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782805 118 Cy 2026-11-04T14:22:12 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16421?startPos=3132&l=en 261104-1 1. Questions to the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality C 8670 8670 Sioned Williams https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=8670 Williams, Sioned Thank you. I won't repeat a number of the points I made in response to Jane Dodds, but just to confirm and to underline that this is not an acceptable situation in the Government's view. These decisions regarding releasing prisoners have a direct effect on housing and homelessness services in Wales. And of course, we recognise that homelessness amongst those who leave custody is a real challenge, but also completely unacceptable. Therefore, the Government continues to work closely with HMPPS and local authorities to ensure that the planning is there before people are released from custody and that it is improved. And in terms of what we are doing, a post-custody working group, which is co-chaired by senior officials from Welsh Government and HMPPS, has been established and there's a specific focus in this group on improving that planning, doing that much sooner, at the earliest stage possible, so that rough sleeping and homelessness are completely avoided.  16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782812 119 Cy 2026-11-04T14:23:40 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16421?startPos=3220&l=en 261104-1 1. Questions to the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality C 12177 12177 Kerry Ferguson https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12177 Deputy Presiding Officer Ferguson, Kerry Thank you, Deputy First Minister. 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782826 120 Cy 2026-11-04T14:23:42 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16421?startPos=3222&l=en 261104-2 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Rural Resilience and Sustainability C 12177 12177 Kerry Ferguson https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12177 Deputy Presiding Officer Ferguson, Kerry We'll move now to questions to the Cabinet Minister for Rural Resilience and Sustainability. Question 1, Joe Martin. 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782827 121 Cy 261104-2 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Rural Resilience and Sustainability B Animal Welfare 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782828 122 Cy 261104-2 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Rural Resilience and Sustainability O 12146 12146 Joe Martin https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12146 Martin, Joe 1. What is the Welsh Government doing to safeguard animal welfare? OQ64803 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782829 123 En 2026-11-04T14:23:54 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16421?startPos=3234&l=en 261104-2 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Rural Resilience and Sustainability C 425 425 Llyr Gruffydd https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=425 Gruffydd, Llyr We are committed, of course, to delivering a new animal welfare plan for Wales, working closely with stakeholders and partners, and we will build on Wales's strong reputation for animal welfare and, of course, continue to maintain and enhance high welfare standards. 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782831 124 En 2026-11-04T14:24:09 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16421?startPos=3249&l=en 261104-2 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Rural Resilience and Sustainability C 12146 12146 Joe Martin https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12146 Martin, Joe Thank you, Cabinet Minister. As you will be aware, a petition numbering almost 14,000 signatures has passed through the Senedd's Petitions Committee calling for a ban on the tethering of horses. In Cardiff earlier this year, a horse was hit and killed by a car in my constituency. The RSPCA has raised serious concerns about tethering, saying that the practice often leads to a lack of shelter, limited grazing, offers no company for horses, stops their natural behaviour and is a direct threat to their physical safety. Yet, despite the public outcry, the Welsh Government hasn't taken action. Minister, will you now take the necessary action to ban tethering and introduce strict guidance that ensures the highest animal welfare standards? 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782847 125 En 2026-11-04T14:24:45 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16421?startPos=3285&l=en 261104-2 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Rural Resilience and Sustainability C 425 425 Llyr Gruffydd https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=425 Gruffydd, Llyr Well, of course, much of what you've referred to there is already illegal. The welfare of tethered horses is already considered under the Animal Welfare Act 2006, and that places a legal duty on those responsible for horses to meet their welfare needs. 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782787 126 En 2026-11-04T14:25:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16421?startPos=3300&l=en 261104-2 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Rural Resilience and Sustainability C 425 425 Llyr Gruffydd https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=425 Gruffydd, Llyr to meet their welfare needs. Now, that includes providing suitable shelter, an appropriate diet, necessary veterinary care, and the opportunity to exhibit normal behaviour. Tethering is unsustainable when it comes to long-term use, certainly, and the equine code of practice sets out conditions, including access to food, access to water, shelter, supervision, et cetera. As far as I'm concerned, the framework is there, so it then comes down to enforcement, of course, and enforcement remains the responsibility of local authority. Now, Welsh Government also, of course, funds Animal Licencing Wales, who are there to support local authorities, and I would expect effective enforcement to happen as a result of that. 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782797 127 En 2026-11-04T14:25:47 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16421?startPos=3347&l=en 261104-2 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Rural Resilience and Sustainability C 332 332 Mike Hedges https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=332 Hedges, Mike I believe animal welfare is important. Many animals are sentient beings, meaning they have the capacity to experience feelings like pain, pleasure and emotional states. The evidence is strongest for mammals and birds, but in recent years researchers have built compelling cases for fish, octopuses, crabs, and even some insects. Welsh Labour took the decision to ban greyhound racing in Wales on animal welfare grounds, and secured the legislation to deliver the ban. Thank you, Jane Dodds. And while the law allows the ban to take effect between April 2027 and April 2030, I want to see the ban brought into force as soon as practically possible. The transition period was put in place to help deliver the ban safely, with animal welfare at its heart, not to prolong greyhound racing unnecessarily. What action is the Minister taking to bring the ban into force? 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782803 128 En 2026-11-04T14:26:36 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16421?startPos=3396&l=en 261104-2 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Rural Resilience and Sustainability C 425 425 Llyr Gruffydd https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=425 Gruffydd, Llyr Well, as you will know, Mike, the previous Government set up the greyhound racing ban implementation group. They have been charged with working through a number of those issues and striking the right balance, in terms of protecting the welfare of greyhounds that will no longer be raced, against other measures as well. I am expecting their second report, imminently. That, I would expect, will give me some advice in terms of the coming into force of the ban and, until I receive that, obviously, I'm not in a position to give you any dates other than to reassure you that this Government will introduce the ban according to the legislation within the window that is specified in law. 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782810 129 En 2026-11-04T14:27:21 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16421?startPos=3441&l=en 261104-2 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Rural Resilience and Sustainability C 4983 4983 Jane Dodds https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=4983 Dodds, Jane I support what Joe said about the tethering of horses and, obviously, I'm going to support what Mike said as well. I'm not going to ask about greyhounds—I think you've had enough of me that. But you mentioned, in your response to Joe, about the animal health and welfare plan, and it's really just trying to see if we can pin you down on a timetable for the delivery of that. We know that charities, such as RSPCA Cymru and Hope Rescue, are keen to see the progress on this. They have, particularly Hope Rescue, they're caring—and this is an increasing number—they currently care for nearly 800 dogs and are facing mounting financial pressures. We know that the plan, we hope, will include the regulation of animal welfare establishments, and the promotion of responsible pet ownership and breeding. So, therefore, could I ask you, if possible, could you please confirm a timetable when we will see this published? Diolch yn fawr iawn. 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782851 130 En 2026-11-04T14:28:25 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16421?startPos=3505&l=en 261104-2 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Rural Resilience and Sustainability C 425 425 Llyr Gruffydd https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=425 Gruffydd, Llyr I can't give you that timetable here in the Chamber. I will write to you on that, specifically. But I can assure you that it is absolutely our intention to deliver that, at the very least within this Government, obviously, otherwise the moment will have passed. 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782852 131 En 2026-11-04T14:28:41 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16421?startPos=3521&l=en 261104-2 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Rural Resilience and Sustainability C 8579 8579 Peredur Owen Griffiths https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=8579 Griffiths, Peredur Owen While fireworks are fun for many people, this does not extend to the majority of animals. Research undertaken by the RSPCA has shown that 55 per cent of animal and livestock owners dread the firework season because of the negative impacts on their animals. Private displays in places, such as people's back gardens, are also becoming increasingly popular, with 64 per cent of animals negatively impacted by these, according to the RSPCA. Firework litter from such displays are also posing a significant risk to animals. While the relevant legislation is reserved to Westminster, a recent consultation has been held that could see noisier fireworks used only during professional displays. As we await the outcome of the consultation, will the Cabinet Minister commit to advocating for the use of low-noise and silent fireworks as much as possible throughout Wales, and to undertaking any relevant action in that respect? Diolch. 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782867 132 En 2026-11-04T14:29:38 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16421?startPos=3578&l=en 261104-2 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Rural Resilience and Sustainability C 425 425 Llyr Gruffydd https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=425 Gruffydd, Llyr Well, I think there's a very strong case to be made for taking all kinds of actions to reduce the stress and disturbance to animals and pets as a consequence, either of the fireworks in terms of noise or, as you say, spent fireworks that may be found in fields and other places where both wildlife and domestic pets would, potentially, come across. But, whilst the UK Government consultation is running, 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782798 133 En 2026-11-04T14:30:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16421?startPos=3600&l=en 261104-2 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Rural Resilience and Sustainability C 425 425 Llyr Gruffydd https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=425 Gruffydd, Llyr whilst the UK Government consultation is running, I think it's only right that we await the conclusion of that process, and then, obviously, take stock from there. 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782800 134 Cy 261104-2 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Rural Resilience and Sustainability B Flooding 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782801 135 Cy 261104-2 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Rural Resilience and Sustainability O 12151 12151 Matthew Jones https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12151 Jones, Matthew 2. What action is the Government taking to reduce the risk of flooding in Sir Fynwy Torfaen? OQ64810 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782802 136 Cy 2026-11-04T14:30:18 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16421?startPos=3618&l=en 261104-2 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Rural Resilience and Sustainability C 425 425 Llyr Gruffydd https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=425 Gruffydd, Llyr Through our flood and coastal erosion risk management programme, over £1.4 million has been made available in Sir Fynwy Torfaen in this financial year specifically. We estimate that around 947 properties have benefited from that, and, of course, it's helped communities, hopefully, to adapt to climate change. 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782833 137 En 2026-11-04T14:30:40 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16421?startPos=3640&l=en 261104-2 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Rural Resilience and Sustainability C 12151 12151 Matthew Jones https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12151 Jones, Matthew Diolch, Weinidog. For flood-affected communities like those in Monmouthshire, we need to both reduce the risk of catastrophic flooding and support those communities that are affected. Last month, my constituents were encouraged to hear that the upcoming Welsh flood forum will act as a national support network for flood-affected communities. You'll remember the devastation from storm Claudia and the flooding that that brought to Monmouthshire almost exactly a year ago. The section 19 flood report has shown that there is still a lot of work to do, and many are still feeling the effects of the flood a year later. Critical decisions on flood risk management need to be made in Monmouthshire and across Wales in the coming months and years. So, when will the Welsh flood forum be up and running, and how will it be able to help support those decisions? 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782849 138 En 2026-11-04T14:31:32 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16421?startPos=3692&l=en 261104-2 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Rural Resilience and Sustainability C 425 425 Llyr Gruffydd https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=425 Gruffydd, Llyr Thank you for that question. I met Monmouthshire council, actually, a few weeks ago to discuss some of these events and the section 19 report as well. But in October as well, I chaired a dedicated steering group that is now going to be working on establishing the Welsh flood forum. It brings together, yes, key partners and organisations, but also, critically, people with lived experience of flooding, which I think is a very important voice that needs to cut through in these deliberations. So, hopefully, their work, which has now started, will help shape a new national support network for those flood-affected communities. We do have a programme for government commitment, of course, to set that up during this Government term. Now, we're looking to set up a charity, so that will take time, but we are learning from experiences in Scotland, where they've done this before us, and we're leaning heavily on the expertise and the experiences of the National Flood Forum, which of course is already in place, so that we can replicate some of that. So, I will shy away from giving you a date, other than to say I am absolutely committed to seeing this being in place as soon as possible, because it's critical to help communities prepare for flooding, respond to flooding and recover from flooding, and it's much, much needed. 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782855 139 En 2026-11-04T14:33:01 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16421?startPos=3781&l=en 261104-2 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Rural Resilience and Sustainability C 12160 12160 Stephen Senior https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12160 Senior, Stephen Minister, following on from that, I need to talk about human sewage, or black water as it's sometimes euphemistically known. As you know, much of Wales is covered by a combined sewer system where human waste and rainwater all goes, effectively, into the same pipe. When it was originally built, that wasn't a problem because it just went into the nearest river or into the sea. However, today, that pipe network just can't cope at times, and the water treatment plants can't cope during very heavy rain. We know that there are overflows, which either put the water into the river or into the sea, and even those can't cope sometimes, and it gets backed up, and some of these places that are flooded end up with a very stressful situation where we have human waste in that flood water. That's the harsh reality of our water system. Now, to separate out those two different systems at a UK level would cost anything between an estimated £300 billion and £1 trillion. The fact we can't put a figure on it shows the problem. We actually don't even know or have an accurate map of where some of those pipes are. So, Minister, my question is: does the Welsh Government, having worked with the water industry in Wales—which is, obviously, more than one company—have any estimate for how much it might cost to solve the problem of combined sewers and combined sewer overflows? 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782879 140 En 2026-11-04T14:34:13 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16421?startPos=3853&l=en 261104-2 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Rural Resilience and Sustainability C 425 425 Llyr Gruffydd https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=425 Gruffydd, Llyr We don't have a cost, no. But it's absolutely a system that's been inherited, and it's a system that, frankly, doesn't deliver the kind of drainage network that would benefit customers and nature and health and a number of other outcomes. You will be aware that developments have happened in terms of urban drainage systems and requirements through the planning system for new builds, et cetera, to try and separate grey water and rainwater and water running off our road infrastructure, for example, from sewers. But we are where we are. Now, we therefore look to the water companies and the water regulators to play their part in making sure that we are on the right path 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782814 141 En 2026-11-04T14:35:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16421?startPos=3900&l=en 261104-2 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Rural Resilience and Sustainability C 425 425 Llyr Gruffydd https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=425 Gruffydd, Llyr on the right path and on a decent trajectory to getting to a place where we don't see these incidents occurring as often. I know there is a topical question coming up later on, which I'm sure will address some of these issues. So, yes, we're not where we would like to be, but regulators and water companies have a big part to play in that, and we as a Government are putting pressure on them to deliver. 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782821 142 Cy 261104-2 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Rural Resilience and Sustainability B Questions Without Notice from Party Spokespeople 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782822 143 Cy 2026-11-04T14:35:23 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16421?startPos=3923&l=en 261104-2 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Rural Resilience and Sustainability C 12177 12177 Kerry Ferguson https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12177 Deputy Presiding Officer Ferguson, Kerry I now call on the party spokespeople to question the Cabinet Minister. Reform UK spokesperson, Laura Anne Jones. 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782823 144 En 2026-11-04T14:35:29 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16421?startPos=3929&l=en 261104-2 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Rural Resilience and Sustainability C 4562 4562 Laura Anne Jones https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=4562 Jones, Laura Anne Diolch. Minister, the devastation caused by this summer's wildfires demanded and deserved an oral statement in this Chamber post-summit to update us on the outcomes and provide us with a list of the urgent and long-term actions that you will now take, and—importantly—outline where the funding for them will come from. Instead, we got a written statement. I'm bewildered that you or the First Minister haven't made the time to come to the Chamber this week to outline that and set out what has been in the summit and face proper scrutiny. The urgency of getting preventative actions in place is paramount if we are to be as prepared as we can be for next summer. A summit is great, but now we need real, tangible action, and at speed, if we are to prevent the fires on the scale that we saw. Since September 2025, England's Countryside Stewardship Higher Tier pays for work like bracken control and firebreaks, with scope for private investment to help carry that work forward, but there is no equivalent in Wales. It will take a substantial uplift on the budget, private capital, money from our farmers and commoners' own pockets, to enable any actions. 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782832 145 En 2026-11-04T14:36:40 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16421?startPos=4000&l=en 261104-2 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Rural Resilience and Sustainability C 12177 12177 Kerry Ferguson https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12177 Deputy Presiding Officer Ferguson, Kerry Can I ask you to come to a question, please? 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782836 146 En 2026-11-04T14:36:42 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16421?startPos=4002&l=en 261104-2 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Rural Resilience and Sustainability C 4562 4562 Laura Anne Jones https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=4562 Jones, Laura Anne Yes. But Minister, who should pay for these land management interventions? Will you use the SFS or another scheme to incentivise farmers and landowners to carry out these vital works? Fundamentally, would they be in place— 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782838 147 En 2026-11-04T14:36:55 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16421?startPos=4015&l=en 261104-2 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Rural Resilience and Sustainability C 12177 12177 Kerry Ferguson https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12177 Ferguson, Kerry Can you please conclude? 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782842 148 En 2026-11-04T14:36:57 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16421?startPos=4017&l=en 261104-2 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Rural Resilience and Sustainability C 4562 4562 Laura Anne Jones https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=4562 Jones, Laura Anne Fundamentally, would they be in place for the hot weather in the summer? Diolch. 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782844 149 En 2026-11-04T14:37:02 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16421?startPos=4022&l=en 261104-2 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Rural Resilience and Sustainability C 425 425 Llyr Gruffydd https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=425 Gruffydd, Llyr Okay, there's a lot there, I'll try and remember all of it. First of all, I am here now today, this week. Ironically, you're asking for an opportunity to ask Ministers about the wildfire summit and you're asking me about the wildfire summit. So, you know, I mean—okay, maybe it could have been—[Interruption.] Hang on, it's my turn now, you've had your more than one minute. So, look, I'm here now, and I'll happily engage with you further outside of here if you want to go into greater detail. What I would say is, is it me? Is it the planning Minister? Is it the First Minister? This is a cross-Government endeavour. I suppose we could all appear and respond to the summit that was held. But the important thing now is, as you say, the outcomes of that summit. There are clear, identified, immediate priorities that have been recognised as a consequence of the summit. We need to support a strengthened all-Wales wildfire board, that came through clearly, and we're committed to doing that. A new pan-Wales approach to monitoring spring and summer resilience risk, that is something that's going to be a work stream. A rapid evidence review to better understand the role of land management interventions is a particular piece of work that my officials are undertaking. We have already announced a separate review of the 'Heather and Grass Burning Code'. In relation to your question about funding some of these interventions, it may well come up with a requirement for funding, and that will be a challenge for me then to go and see where I can identify the funding for that. The sustainable farming scheme can play a role as well, depending exactly on what the requirements are. We are going to bring—another outcome of the summit—international expertise to support Welsh fire and rescue services with training and preparation. We need a structured pan-Wales register, for example, for farmers and landowners to indicate where, out there, the willingness is to provide vehicles, equipment, local knowledge, support. Many of them stepped up. They played a critical role. Can we sort of formalise that in some way? We need to review evidence as well on options with the fire and rescue service on improved health monitoring and decontamination procedures for firefighters. We need exploration of further preventative actions to reduce risk, including public engagement. There's a big public education piece. You know, I could go on. There are huge pieces of work, both individually and collectively spread across Government. We are getting on with it. I'm happy to sit down with you and go through this in greater detail. But please, the work has started. 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782857 150 En 2026-11-04T14:39:35 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16421?startPos=4175&l=en 261104-2 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Rural Resilience and Sustainability C 4562 4562 Laura Anne Jones https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=4562 Jones, Laura Anne I would love to—I will definitely take you up on that offer, Minister. I appreciate that. But that response was extremely disappointing and very wishy-washy considering the amount of time that we have left before next summer to put these actions in place. You're still reviewing and creating another view. This summit was of utmost importance. Even though it was two hours long and contributors had 90 seconds each to contribute, it was a very important summit that deserved an oral statement 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782809 151 En 2026-11-04T14:40:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16421?startPos=4200&l=en 261104-2 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Rural Resilience and Sustainability C 4562 4562 Laura Anne Jones https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=4562 Jones, Laura Anne that deserved an oral statement in this Chamber so that everybody—because it is a collective effort—every single MS should have the opportunity to ask you questions on it. But I'll move on to my second question—[Interruption.] You've had your chance, it's mine now. Your Government is consulting on whether to replace or scrap the scheme that gives the youngest pupils in our schools free milk during the day and subsidise it through to year 6 if requested. Margaret Thatcher got a lot right, but on this, she got it wrong: she should never have snatched milk out of the schools. It may have been 'Thatcher the milk snatcher' a few decades ago, but it's 'Llyr dim llaeth' now, which perhaps will be the nickname that sticks. It isn't good enough to— 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782811 152 En 2026-11-04T14:40:44 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16421?startPos=4244&l=en 261104-2 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Rural Resilience and Sustainability C 12177 12177 Kerry Ferguson https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12177 Deputy Presiding Officer Ferguson, Kerry Can you ask your question, please? You're already over. 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782813 153 En 2026-11-04T14:40:48 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16421?startPos=4248&l=en 261104-2 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Rural Resilience and Sustainability C 4562 4562 Laura Anne Jones https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=4562 Jones, Laura Anne —just give milk to breakfast clubs, all children deserve to have that nutritional benefit, which supports our dairy farmers and local economies across Wales. Your bedfellows, Labour— 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782819 154 En 2026-11-04T14:40:57 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16421?startPos=4257&l=en 261104-2 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Rural Resilience and Sustainability C 12177 12177 Kerry Ferguson https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12177 Deputy Presiding Officer Ferguson, Kerry Can the Member ask a question? 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782820 155 En 2026-11-04T14:40:57 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16421?startPos=4257&l=en 261104-2 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Rural Resilience and Sustainability C 4562 4562 Laura Anne Jones https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=4562 Jones, Laura Anne —even recognised it. Can you guarantee here today that you will not scrap the scheme, which should not even be an option in the consultation? Diolch. 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782824 156 En 2026-11-04T14:41:06 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16421?startPos=4266&l=en 261104-2 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Rural Resilience and Sustainability C 425 425 Llyr Gruffydd https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=425 Gruffydd, Llyr Well, no decision has been made on the future of the school milk subsidy scheme, and there is a consultation on the future arrangements, but that's happening because the Rural Payments Agency will stop administering the scheme for Wales after the end of March next year. And the consultation considers two options: introducing a new scheme, delivered through existing school food funding arrangements or, yes, ending the dedicated milk subsidy scheme. But we will consider the consultation responses. And as the Minister for rural affairs, I have a view on this and I will make my view known through the consultation, as I hope all other Members and the wider public will. 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782830 157 En 2026-11-04T14:41:45 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16421?startPos=4305&l=en 261104-2 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Rural Resilience and Sustainability C 4562 4562 Laura Anne Jones https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=4562 Jones, Laura Anne Yes, we certainly will, Minister. That consultation, as an option, takes away all children having milk or getting rid of it altogether. That should not even be an option in the consultation, Minister. Minister, I commend this Government, actually, on the work it's done in the promotion of our fantastic Welsh produce that we have on offer here in Wales, and you're 'Rooted in Wales' campaign. But if this Government is truly serious about using local produce in our schools, hospitals, public bodies, how are you going to incentivise local authorities to do that? Are you planning to subsidise the food? What is your plan, Minister? Because the biggest barrier for local authorities to use local suppliers is cost. As I previously outlined in this Chamber, in Merthyr, 99 per cent of school children—school chickens, sorry—came from Thailand and China. In Conwy, 94 per cent came from outside the UK. This is a complete shambles, and it's happening right across Wales. It's all very well and good that you're promoting local Welsh high-quality products through adverts like 'Rooted in Wales', but until you get to grips with our abattoirs, the local supply chain issues, and supporting our farmers in a way where they are absolutely able to produce food— 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782834 158 En 2026-11-04T14:42:53 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16421?startPos=4373&l=en 261104-2 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Rural Resilience and Sustainability C 12177 12177 Kerry Ferguson https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12177 Deputy Presiding Officer Ferguson, Kerry Can I remind the Member that they are one-minute contributions, please? 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782837 159 En 2026-11-04T14:42:55 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16421?startPos=4375&l=en 261104-2 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Rural Resilience and Sustainability C 4562 4562 Laura Anne Jones https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=4562 Jones, Laura Anne —you won't get to grips with this. Can you update the Senedd on how you're working— 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782839 160 En 2026-11-04T14:43:01 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16421?startPos=4381&l=en 261104-2 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Rural Resilience and Sustainability C 425 425 Llyr Gruffydd https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=425 Gruffydd, Llyr And there's more. 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782841 161 En 2026-11-04T14:42:02 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16421?startPos=4322&l=en 261104-2 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Rural Resilience and Sustainability C 4562 4562 Laura Anne Jones https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=4562 Jones, Laura Anne —with local authorities on local procurement plans? 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782843 162 En 2026-11-04T14:43:02 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16421?startPos=4382&l=en 261104-2 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Rural Resilience and Sustainability C 12177 12177 Kerry Ferguson https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12177 Deputy Presiding Officer Ferguson, Kerry Laura, with respect—. Can I remind the Chamber that it is one-minute contributions, not one minute and then pushing and waiting for the Chair to come in? I have a button that turns off. I really don't want to use it, because I want you all to be able to get across what you want to ask. Everyone is doing it, everyone is going over. Please be respectful of the time limits. Sorry, Gweinidog. 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782848 163 En 2026-11-04T14:43:25 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16421?startPos=4405&l=en 261104-2 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Rural Resilience and Sustainability C 425 425 Llyr Gruffydd https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=425 Gruffydd, Llyr Diolch. Well, the Member will know that I am a strong proponent of locally produced food being locally processed and locally procured or eaten ultimately. Now, we have set up, of course, the National Food Strategy Group that are going to be looking at developing the strategy for us. They have identified three priority work streams, one being the red meat supply chain in Wales and another one being food in our schools. So, as part of that work, they will be looking at some excellent examples that exist out there, actually, in terms of how we make this work. But, of course, at the minute, they're examples that are here and there—we need to mainstream those kinds of approaches. So, I am putting great faith in the work of Simon Wright, as Chair, and the membership of that board to come up with some of these proposals or some of these actions that will turn that around. But there is a duty on local authorities as well. And I think, in fact, the public sector has a critical role to play here because we know the value of public procurement and the level of spend that's happening. But every 1 per cent extra that is spent on public procurement with companies, or through companies or producers in Wales, equates to around 2,000 additional jobs in the Welsh economy. So, if you increase procurement by 10 per cent, that's effectively 20,000 extra jobs in the Welsh economy. And, of course, you're not spending more money necessarily, you're just spending it in a different place. So, there is much more that could be done, should have been done potentially in the past. But we're up for that challenge, because not only do we see the benefits 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782835 164 En 2026-11-04T14:50:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16421?startPos=4800&l=en 261104-2 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Rural Resilience and Sustainability C 425 425 Llyr Gruffydd https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=425 Gruffydd, Llyr in relation to coal tip safety. I see that as a model that we now need to pursue in relation to contaminated land. 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782840 165 Cy 2026-11-04T14:50:08 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16421?startPos=4808&l=en 261104-2 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Rural Resilience and Sustainability C 12177 12177 Kerry Ferguson https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12177 Deputy Presiding Officer Ferguson, Kerry Welsh Conservatives' spokesperson—Andrew R.T. Davies. 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782846 166 En 2026-11-04T14:50:11 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16421?startPos=4811&l=en 261104-2 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Rural Resilience and Sustainability C 143 143 Andrew R.T. Davies https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=143 Davies, Andrew R.T. Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer. Minister, we've had some grim statistics about bluetongue this week, we have. I think the five hundredth case has been reported here in Wales, and next year's particularly bleak-looking. Many examples are highlighted about the south-west being what Wales might look like next year, without a good course of vaccination enrolled throughout the livestock sector. We have the winter fair at the end of November. Will you commit to using all the Government communication channels to promote the virtues of vaccination and make sure that you're in constant dialogue with the vaccination companies to make sure there's a good supply of vaccination stock available for livestock? Because none of us want to see what happened unfold in the south-west unfolding in Wales this time next year. 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782854 167 En 2026-11-04T14:50:51 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16421?startPos=4851&l=en 261104-2 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Rural Resilience and Sustainability C 425 425 Llyr Gruffydd https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=425 Gruffydd, Llyr Yes, I will. We have been, of course, promoting the benefits of vaccination. It's the only sustainable way at the minute that we have to fend off bluetongue and to keep it at bay. There is a real risk, as you say, that we will end up in 12 months' time where south-west England has been. We need to avoid that. I would urge farmers to speak with their vet, to vaccinate now, because obviously we're coming to the tail end of the season this year, but it will provide that protection, and then certainly being protected into the next term as well. So, the short answer is 'yes'. 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782856 168 En 2026-11-04T14:51:29 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16421?startPos=4889&l=en 261104-2 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Rural Resilience and Sustainability C 143 143 Andrew R.T. Davies https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=143 Davies, Andrew R.T. I'm grateful for that. If you could use the winter fair, the premier livestock event of the winter season, as a conduit for that message, that would be really well received by the industry. As we go into the closed season, I think there's a danger that some farmers might actually think, 'It's gone', 'It's not happening', and when you look at the fallen stock numbers coming out of the south-west, they are pretty horrendous, to say the least. That leads me to my second question, Minister, in relation to fallen stock: what discussions are your officials having, trying to pre-empt any spike in demand next summer, if the consequences that we've seen unfold in the south-west unfold in Wales next year, where some report of a tenfold increase in dealing with fallen stock? That's a huge amount of livestock having to be dealt with by the rendering industry. Are you giving any consideration to what support, if we do find ourselves in those conditions, you might be able to offer as a Government to the livestock sector to deal with this? 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782860 169 En 2026-11-04T14:52:22 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16421?startPos=4942&l=en 261104-2 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Rural Resilience and Sustainability C 425 425 Llyr Gruffydd https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=425 Gruffydd, Llyr That is a live consideration at the minute, but it isn't just in relation to fallen stock. We need to be clear that there is a sufficient supply of vaccines. We need to be confident that there is the testing and laboratory capacity in place. So, you know, it's part of a wider picture. I will undertake to pursue that further and report back to the Member, because there's a wider package of being ready, I think, for what we fear may be coming unless action is taken now. 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782861 170 Cy 261104-2 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Rural Resilience and Sustainability B Wildfires 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782862 171 Cy 261104-2 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Rural Resilience and Sustainability O 174 174 Lynne Neagle https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=174 Neagle, Lynne 3. What action is the Cabinet Minister taking to support farmers affected by the wildfires this summer? OQ64817 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782863 172 En 2026-11-04T14:52:57 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16421?startPos=4977&l=en 261104-2 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Rural Resilience and Sustainability C 425 425 Llyr Gruffydd https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=425 Gruffydd, Llyr Well, I'm keenly aware of the extensive impacts of the wildfires on farmers. This is why I increased advance payments for farm business from 70 per cent to 80 per cent, easing, hopefully, or helping to ease cash-flow pressure caused by the exceptionally difficult conditions farmers have faced this year. 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782864 173 En 2026-11-04T14:53:13 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16421?startPos=4993&l=en 261104-2 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Rural Resilience and Sustainability C 174 174 Lynne Neagle https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=174 Neagle, Lynne Thank you. I was very pleased that James Bourne, a farmer from my constituency, was able to attend the wildfire summit, and I want to thank James and the other landowners who did exceptional work over the summer alongside firefighters and other agencies to tackle the wildfire in Blaenavon. Now, I've seen the list of actions arising from the summit, and I've heard you answer Laura Anne Jones just then, but what I haven't seen so far is any mention of funding, either for farmers directly affected by the fires or funding to restore the common land, which was devastated in Blaenavon by the wildfire. So, can I ask, Cabinet Minister, what plans do you have to provide additional funding to farmers badly affected by the wildfires and also to restore common land in places like Blaenavon? 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782871 174 En 2026-11-04T14:54:11 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16421?startPos=5051&l=en 261104-2 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Rural Resilience and Sustainability C 425 425 Llyr Gruffydd https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=425 Gruffydd, Llyr Thank you for your question. I would agree with you, the testimony that we received in the wildfire summit, particularly from James Bourne and others, in fairness, was quite sobering, quite strong testimony from those who have been affected, and reminding us, I think, of some of the consequences that they're still living with now. Whilst maybe many people in their heads have moved on from the wildfires, some animals are still suffering in terms of respiratory issues, pneumonia, et cetera, et cetera, and I think it was important that we were reminded of that. Now, of course, I recognise the call for financial support, particularly from commoners and those farmers who were directly involved in experiencing losses as a consequence of the fire. Now, what we did agree 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782865 175 En 2026-11-04T14:55:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16421?startPos=5100&l=en 261104-2 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Rural Resilience and Sustainability C 425 425 Llyr Gruffydd https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=425 Gruffydd, Llyr Now, what we did agree at the summit was, as you've recognised, a programme of practical work to try and strengthen resilience and preparedness, including the rapid evidence review of land management; I mentioned the review of the heather and grass burning code as well. And I think there's a lot of work that's happening now that I think we need to consider the evidence that will come from as that comes forward to make sure that we focus on targeting interventions in the future and that those interventions are the ones that make the greatest difference to future resilience. I'm aware of the challenges, I haven't come to any decisions yet, but I think we need to look at it in the light of the wider sort of resilience piece as well. 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782878 176 En 2026-11-04T14:55:42 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16421?startPos=5142&l=en 261104-2 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Rural Resilience and Sustainability C 12176 12176 Paul Rock https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12176 Rock, Paul I'd like to draw attention to the statement of opinion tabled in my name last week, which was co-tabled—thank you—to Members of parties across this Senedd, calling for more nature-based solutions to be implemented to mitigate the risks of wildfires, droughts and flooding across Wales. By rewilding our countryside, we can create healthier, more diverse ecosystems, as well as improving the health and water retention of our soils, which will subsequently make Cymru more resilient against wildfires, flooding and other extreme weather events. This includes tree planting for shade, as well as re-wetting of dried-out moorlands and lowlands, which are at the greatest risk now of wildfires. I welcome the fact that the Welsh Government held a wildfire summit last month. Will the Cabinet Minister outline the next steps to bring partners together to implement nature-based solutions to prevent future wildfires, and is he confident that funding mechanisms, including the sustainable farming scheme, are well designed to accelerate these interventions? 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782885 177 En 2026-11-04T14:56:49 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16421?startPos=5209&l=en 261104-2 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Rural Resilience and Sustainability C 425 425 Llyr Gruffydd https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=425 Gruffydd, Llyr Yes—although that is part of the wider mosaic, I think, of interventions and funding that's required. As you were asking the question, I was jotting down peatland restoration and re-wetting trees and you were trotting them off about three seconds after I was writing them down. So, they're very much on this broader menu, if you like, of interventions that we're now looking at; some of which, of course, are already pieces of work that the Government is delivering, but maybe we need to look at delivering at greater pace or at greater scale. But there is a resource challenge that has to be met in doing that to the extent that we would like, and that is something that we're considering in the wider context of the Welsh budget for next year. 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782894 178 Cy 261104-2 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Rural Resilience and Sustainability B Wildlife-related TB 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782895 179 Cy 261104-2 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Rural Resilience and Sustainability O 12182 12182 Louise Emery https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12182 Emery, Louise 4. Will the Cabinet Minister provide an update on the timescale for receiving and publishing the Bovine TB Technical Advisory Group for Wales's advice paper on wildlife-related TB? OQ64811 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782896 180 En 2026-11-04T14:57:47 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16421?startPos=5267&l=en 261104-2 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Rural Resilience and Sustainability C 425 425 Llyr Gruffydd https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=425 Gruffydd, Llyr I have recently received the advice paper from the TB programme board, which was informed by the technical advisory group. I plan to publish their paper later in November, along with the Welsh Government response. 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782897 181 En 2026-11-04T14:58:01 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16421?startPos=5281&l=en 261104-2 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Rural Resilience and Sustainability C 12182 12182 Louise Emery https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12182 Emery, Louise Well, that is great news, because that was my next question, exactly when that's going to be published. So, can I check that will be published in—. You said published in full by the end of November, and available to the public? 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782901 182 En 2026-11-04T14:58:14 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16421?startPos=5294&l=en 261104-2 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Rural Resilience and Sustainability C 425 425 Llyr Gruffydd https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=425 Gruffydd, Llyr Yes, it will be, and I will be making an oral statement as a consequence of that as well. 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782902 183 En 2026-11-04T14:58:19 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16421?startPos=5299&l=en 261104-2 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Rural Resilience and Sustainability C 12182 12182 Louise Emery https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12182 Emery, Louise Diolch yn fawr. 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782904 184 En 2026-11-04T14:58:22 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16421?startPos=5302&l=en 261104-2 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Rural Resilience and Sustainability C 12178 12178 Anna Nicholl https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12178 Nicholl, Anna Cabinet Minister, the recent decision to extend the Pembrokeshire project, which I was pleased to visit recently, reflects the success of a collaborative approach that brings together farmers, vets, researchers and Government to reduce disease risk at herd level. This model has attracted interest beyond Wales and has been recognised in both the Godfray review and Northern Ireland's TB strategy. The project has been praised for empowering farmers and vets to make informed decisions and take greater leadership in disease control. Pembrokeshire remains one of the hardest hit parts of Wales, accounting for around 40 per cent of all TB animal slaughters. Focusing targeted intervention support and interventions in high infection areas offers an opportunity to achieve real impact in reducing disease transmission and improving herd health. So, can the Cabinet Minister assure us that the lessons that have been learnt from this Pembrokeshire project will now be able to inform the refreshed TB eradication programme right across Wales? 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782920 185 En 2026-11-04T14:59:25 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16421?startPos=5365&l=en 261104-2 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Rural Resilience and Sustainability C 425 425 Llyr Gruffydd https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=425 Gruffydd, Llyr Well, yes, the Pembrokeshire project and the north Wales project as well, actually, have already demonstrated, I think, the value of close partnership working between, as you say, farmers, private vets, Government, and, of course, with that strong focus on herd level disease risks and practical action then, stemming from that. Now, of course, we'll need to make sure that the lessons we draw from that are based on the fullest evidence available. So, we're awaiting final reports from the projects, alongside an independent review, and there's a review meeting actually taking place, I think, in a month or two 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782868 186 Cy 2026-11-04T00:00:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16421?startPos=-48600&l=en 261104-2 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Rural Resilience and Sustainability C 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782869 187 Cy 2026-11-04T15:00:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16421?startPos=5400&l=en 261104-2 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Rural Resilience and Sustainability C 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782870 188 En 2026-11-04T15:00:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16421?startPos=5400&l=en 261104-2 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Rural Resilience and Sustainability C 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782872 189 Cy 2026-11-04T00:00:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16421?startPos=-48600&l=en 261104-2 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Rural Resilience and Sustainability C 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782873 190 Cy 2026-11-04T15:00:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16421?startPos=5400&l=en 261104-2 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Rural Resilience and Sustainability C 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782874 191 En 2026-11-04T15:00:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16421?startPos=5400&l=en 261104-2 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Rural Resilience and Sustainability C 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782858 192 En 2026-11-04T15:00:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16421?startPos=5400&l=en 261104-2 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Rural Resilience and Sustainability C 425 425 Llyr Gruffydd https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=425 Gruffydd, Llyr actually taking place, I think, in a month or two as well, to reflect on some of that. And these findings will absolutely help inform the refreshed TB eradication programme, including, of course, how the most effective elements of the approaches we've seen in Pembrokeshire and north Wales can be delivered more widely across Wales. And the aim always has been to build on what we think works, whilst, of course, ensuring that any future targeted interventions reflect local disease risks and can be delivered effectively. 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782875 193 Cy 261104-2 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Rural Resilience and Sustainability B New Entrants into Farming 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782876 194 Cy 261104-2 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Rural Resilience and Sustainability O 4967 4967 Lyn Ackerman https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=4967 Ackerman, Lyn 5. What steps is the Government taking to support new entrants into farming? OQ64836 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782877 195 En 2026-11-04T15:00:41 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16421?startPos=5441&l=en 261104-2 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Rural Resilience and Sustainability C 425 425 Llyr Gruffydd https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=425 Gruffydd, Llyr The Welsh Government supports new entrants across Wales through Farming Connect and through Start to Farm, helping develop skills, experience and business opportunities. Newly established farm businesses can also, of course, access agricultural support schemes as they become available, subject, of course, to individual scheme eligibility requirements. 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782880 196 En 2026-11-04T15:01:01 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16421?startPos=5461&l=en 261104-2 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Rural Resilience and Sustainability C 4967 4967 Lyn Ackerman https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=4967 Ackerman, Lyn Cabinet Minister, access to land and finance remains a barrier for new entrants, particularly those without a farming background. What conversations has the Welsh Government had with the Development Bank of Wales to help the farming sector to provide opportunities for our next generation of farmers? 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782882 197 En 2026-11-04T15:01:21 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16421?startPos=5481&l=en 261104-2 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Rural Resilience and Sustainability C 425 425 Llyr Gruffydd https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=425 Gruffydd, Llyr Well, thank you. Yes, I absolutely recognise the importance of helping young people, wherever they are, really, in Wales, to be able to build their careers within agriculture if they wish to do so. I'm due, actually, to meet the chair and chief executive of the Development Bank of Wales later this month, so that we can start exploring how we can help young people establish and develop their farming businesses. You'll be aware that we currently work with the development bank on the sustainable agricultural loan scheme, which is all about making farms more sustainable and more resilient in the face of climate change. So, there's a model there, maybe, that we may wish to consider, but there will be other possible options as well. But regardless of the work that we hope to do with the Development Bank of Wales, we are as well providing, of course, funding, through Farming Connect, for mentoring, special advice, one-to-one surgeries, et cetera, and business development support, as well, for those wishing to come into the industry. And the Start to Farm scheme, particularly as well, can offer substantial bespoke support services, and there's financial support as well for developing business plans, et cetera. So, there's a lot happening, but there's always more that we can do. 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782886 198 En 2026-11-04T15:02:39 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16421?startPos=5559&l=en 261104-2 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Rural Resilience and Sustainability C 12171 12171 David Mills https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12171 Mills, David Having previously farmed in France, I saw first-hand a much more structured system of support for people wanting to enter the industry. In France, young farmers were able to access substantial establishment grants averaging €32,000 under the previous national scheme, alongside lots of additional financial incentives. Here in Wales, the barriers are considerable, and the cost of acquiring land is probably the worst thing—machinery, livestock. It just makes it prohibitively expensive, particularly for someone without a farming family behind them. The figures speak for themselves. According to the FUW in Wales, just 3 per cent of farmers are under 35, and the median age of the principal decision maker in Wales is 61. What consideration is the Welsh Government giving to more ambitious—. Well, you've just sort of covered this, really, but it's something we really need to look at, and find a way of dealing with it. 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782900 199 En 2026-11-04T15:03:56 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16421?startPos=5636&l=en 261104-2 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Rural Resilience and Sustainability C 425 425 Llyr Gruffydd https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=425 Gruffydd, Llyr Yes, and I'd be grateful if the Member could share some of the information that he has about the interventions that they're providing in France. There's no harm at all in learning from experiences in other countries. But what I do know is that we do have, as I mentioned, some form of support through Farming Connect, which helps young people develop skills and business opportunities—accredited training as well, actually, which is a big part of it, as well as the mentoring and  the specialist advice I mentioned. But with Start to Farm particularly as well, that does offer more targeted support for people looking to establish themselves in the industry, particularly those, maybe, as you say, who don't have access to land, that aren't part of farming families or whatever. It provides practical experience through structured work placements, it can match new entrants with farmers and landowners who, maybe, are looking for joint ventures, who are looking, maybe, to step back from farming a little bit as well. There's fully funded business support, a few thousand pounds, available. 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782883 200 En 2026-11-04T15:05:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16421?startPos=5700&l=en 261104-2 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Rural Resilience and Sustainability C 425 425 Llyr Gruffydd https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=425 Gruffydd, Llyr a few thousand pounds, available. There are a few more thousand pounds available per partner then towards specialist advice. There's money available to develop business plans. As I say, there's always more that we could do, but I'm always keen to learn from other experiences and learning maybe about the information that you have from what they do in France would be very valuable. I'd appreciate it. 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782884 201 Cy 2026-11-04T15:05:19 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16421?startPos=5719&l=en 261104-2 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Rural Resilience and Sustainability C 12177 12177 Kerry Ferguson https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12177 Deputy Presiding Officer Ferguson, Kerry Question 6, Elyn Stephens. 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782888 202 Cy 261104-2 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Rural Resilience and Sustainability B Opening the Coastal Path at Baglan 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782889 203 Cy 261104-2 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Rural Resilience and Sustainability O 12164 12164 Elyn Stephens https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12164 Stephens, Elyn 6. Will the Cabinet Minister provide an update on opening the coastal path at Baglan, Afan Ogwr Rhondda? OQ64838 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782890 204 Cy 2026-11-04T15:05:30 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16421?startPos=5730&l=en 261104-2 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Rural Resilience and Sustainability C 425 425 Llyr Gruffydd https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=425 Gruffydd, Llyr The Wales coast path remains open through Baglan, with two route options available. We have also agreed a new permissive path with Neath Port Talbot Council. This will provide improved access towards the coast, while avoiding a former riverbank path, which remains unsafe because of serious ground instability. 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782898 205 Cy 2026-11-04T15:05:59 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16421?startPos=5759&l=en 261104-2 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Rural Resilience and Sustainability C 12164 12164 Elyn Stephens https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12164 Stephens, Elyn Thank you for your answer, Minister.  16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782899 206 En 2026-11-04T15:06:01 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16421?startPos=5761&l=en 261104-2 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Rural Resilience and Sustainability C 12164 12164 Elyn Stephens https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12164 Stephens, Elyn Following the closure of the Baglan coastal path under the previous Labour Government, local residents were left without a solution or a clear way forward. I'm therefore extremely grateful that this Plaid Cymru Government has taken the initiative to develop an alternative route, allowing residents to once again enjoy this beautiful stretch of coastline. I was pleased to receive the Gweinidog's recent update, but could he confirm whether a map of the proposed route will be made available? And could you also clarify why the new route won't form part of the official Cymru coast path, and what its designation as a permissive path means in practice? Does it mean that it won't be a public right of way? If so, what assurances can be offered about securing public access for the long term?  16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782907 207 En 2026-11-04T15:06:46 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16421?startPos=5806&l=en 261104-2 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Rural Resilience and Sustainability C 425 425 Llyr Gruffydd https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=425 Gruffydd, Llyr Thank you. Okay, there are a few things there. Maybe I will follow up by writing to the Member in case I miss any particular aspect of that. Maps will be made available, clearly, because people need to know where they're able to walk. But my officials are working with Neath Port Talbot Council to get the new permissive path, as you say, open and available for local people and visitors to use as soon as possible. Now, the new permissive path will be approximately 3.5 km long and will provide access along just over 2 km of the former Wales coast path alignment, leaving only around a 1.5 km stretch of the former route unavailable. I recognise the importance of securing good quality public access for local communities to these sites, and as landowner, the Welsh Government, of course, will need to retain flexibility over the future management and use of this particular land whilst keeping longer term arrangements for the route under review with the council. So any decision to create a permanent public right of way would need to be balanced, I think, against the benefits of securing access for the public with future potential management and use, I should say, of the land. So, we’re not currently looking to make it a permanent public right of way, but are absolutely wanting to make sure that people can enjoy it and can have access to it. 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782914 208 Cy 2026-11-04T15:08:10 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16421?startPos=5890&l=en 261104-2 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Rural Resilience and Sustainability C 12177 12177 Kerry Ferguson https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12177 Deputy Presiding Officer Ferguson, Kerry Question 7, Tom Montgomery. 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782916 209 Cy 261104-2 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Rural Resilience and Sustainability B Spreading Slurry and Other High Readily Available Nitrogen Organic Manures 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782917 210 Cy 261104-2 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Rural Resilience and Sustainability O 12183 12183 Tom Montgomery https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12183 Montomery, Tom 7. What steps is the Cabinet Minister taking to remove the closed periods for spreading slurry and other high readily available nitrogen organic manures? OQ64799 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782918 211 En 2026-11-04T15:08:22 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16421?startPos=5902&l=en 261104-2 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Rural Resilience and Sustainability C 425 425 Llyr Gruffydd https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=425 Gruffydd, Llyr Well, as I'm sure you will know, I've brought forward the control of agricultural pollution review recommendations relating to the closed periods to make sure that they're considered in the short term now as opposed to the medium term, as was originally proposed. The recommendations are currently being considered by the task and finish group, which will help inform the development of proposals for changes to this aspect of the regulations. 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782922 212 En 2026-11-04T15:08:47 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16421?startPos=5927&l=en 261104-2 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Rural Resilience and Sustainability C 12183 12183 Tom Montgomery https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12183 Montomery, Tom Thank you, Minister. In March five years ago, a Member of this Chamber brought forward a motion calling for this Parliament to annul the Wales-wide nitrate vulnerable zones. As you said in this very Chamber, ‘the regulations are disproportionate’. I agree. They cover all of Wales when NRW's own advice was only for a small proportion of Wales to be covered. And again, Minister, in your words, you called the approach ‘absurd’ because it uses the calendar rather than weather conditions for when slurry can be spread. Whilst I welcome the extension of the spreading season to 15 November, that doesn't address the underlying issue. The approach is wrong. We need an approach that is targeted and not Wales-wide. We need an approach that recognises that we farm by weather. Minister, you were content then to annul the regulations. Will you now work cross-party to scrap them now so farmers can farm by weather and not by calendar this winter? Diolch. 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782926 213 En 2026-11-04T15:09:50 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16421?startPos=5990&l=en 261104-2 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Rural Resilience and Sustainability C 425 425 Llyr Gruffydd https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=425 Gruffydd, Llyr Well, I haven't changed my mind on this, you know. I still don't believe that the current regulations are fit for purpose. And, of course, 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782903 214 En 2026-11-04T15:10:01 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16421?startPos=6001&l=en 261104-2 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Rural Resilience and Sustainability C 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782905 215 En 2026-11-04T15:10:01 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16421?startPos=6001&l=en 261104-2 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Rural Resilience and Sustainability C 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782891 216 En 2026-11-04T15:10:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16421?startPos=6000&l=en 261104-2 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Rural Resilience and Sustainability C 425 425 Llyr Gruffydd https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=425 Gruffydd, Llyr And, of course, I was totally vindicated by the review undertaken by Dr Bolton, who came to a similar conclusion, when it comes to using the calendar to define when the right time is to dispose of slurry. That is work that is now addressed. That has been prioritised. I've asked the task and finish group to prioritise that when it comes to looking for a longer term, more sustainable arrangement. So, work is happening to address that very issue. In the meantime, of course, we did have a certain set of extreme circumstances this year that necessitated more immediate action, hence the decision to avoid, actually, on balance, greater environmental risks when it comes to slurry stores maybe overtopping or even failing catastrophically—something that Natural Resources Wales had been concerned about as well. So, we did introduce an intervention for this year, but, longer term, absolutely, my intention is to be true to my word, and the task and finish group are currently, hopefully, diligently getting to work in finding a way to achieve that. 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782906 217 Cy 2026-11-04T15:11:07 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16421?startPos=6067&l=en 261104-2 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Rural Resilience and Sustainability C 12177 12177 Kerry Ferguson https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12177 Deputy Presiding Officer Ferguson, Kerry And the final question, Cabinet Minister, question eight, Sarah Edwards. 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782908 218 Cy 261104-2 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Rural Resilience and Sustainability B Response to Future Wildfires 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782909 219 Cy 261104-2 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Rural Resilience and Sustainability O 12161 12161 Sarah Edwards https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12161 Edwards, Sarah 8. What assessment has the Cabinet Minister made of the potential for the Welsh Fire Resilience Summit to improve how the response to future wildfires protects the agricultural landscape? OQ64825 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782927 220 Cy 261104-2 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Rural Resilience and Sustainability I The Llywydd (Huw Irranca-Davies) took the Chair. 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782910 221 En 2026-11-04T15:11:29 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16421?startPos=6089&l=en 261104-2 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Rural Resilience and Sustainability C 425 425 Llyr Gruffydd https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=425 Gruffydd, Llyr The summit was an important step in strengthening how we protect agricultural landscapes from future wildfires. It brought farmers, land managers and responders together, as you heard me say earlier, to share their experience and to look at how we can work together more effectively, recognising, of course, the role active land management has in building more resilient landscapes. 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782911 222 En 2026-11-04T15:11:51 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16421?startPos=6111&l=en 261104-2 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Rural Resilience and Sustainability C 12161 12161 Sarah Edwards https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12161 Edwards, Sarah Thank you, Minister. Local news reports at the time suggest that anti-social and careless behaviour, arson and barbecues are a factor here. Was this discussed in any detail at the summit, and what actual steps will be taken to address this?  16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782912 223 En 2026-11-04T15:12:10 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16421?startPos=6130&l=en 261104-2 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Rural Resilience and Sustainability C 425 425 Llyr Gruffydd https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=425 Gruffydd, Llyr There's a wide recognition, isn't there, that this is one of a wider tapestry of challenges and interventions, or potential interventions, that need to be considered, particularly around barbecues and anti-social behaviour. We had representatives from the police there, amongst others, as well.  Much of it comes down to a level of public education, I think, so that people realize the risk that they're taking when they undertake certain activity in the landscape at these times. But some of it, you're right, comes down to tackling anti-social behaviour. There are ways of intervening. There's been talk of banning these disposable barbecues, et cetera. That's very much still on the table. But I did, as I'm sure the Member registered in a previous answer, refer to this wider public education piece as one important workstream that has come out to the summit. 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782913 224 Cy 2026-11-04T15:13:12 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16421?startPos=6192&l=en 261104-2 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Rural Resilience and Sustainability C 5053 5053 Huw Irranca-Davies https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=5053 Llywydd Irranca-Davies, Huw Thank you very much, Cabinet Minister. 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782928 225 En 2026-11-04T15:13:16 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16421?startPos=6196&l=en 261104-2 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Rural Resilience and Sustainability C 5053 5053 Huw Irranca-Davies https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=5053 Llywydd Irranca-Davies, Huw I understand that a Member wants to make a point of clarification or to raise a point of order. Safa Elhassan. 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782929 226 En 2026-11-04T15:13:25 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16421?startPos=6205&l=en 261104-2 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Rural Resilience and Sustainability C 12189 12189 Safa Elhassan https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12189 Elhassan, Safa I would like to ask for a point of clarification following the contribution made by Natasha Asghar during questions to the Deputy First Minister. There are two cross-party groups in the Senedd relating to women and women's rights. I inevitably joined one that did not align with my values or my party's. As soon as I realised, I corrected this, resigned from the women's and girls' rights cross-party group and joined the CPG for women, supported by Womens Equality Network Wales. This was a straightforward correction of a misunderstanding, and it was not due to bullying. Thank you. 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782930 227 En 2026-11-04T15:14:01 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16421?startPos=6241&l=en 261104-2 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Rural Resilience and Sustainability C 5053 5053 Huw Irranca-Davies https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=5053 Llywydd Irranca-Davies, Huw I thank the Member for making that clarification on the record—very helpful indeed. Diolch yn fawr. 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782933 228 Cy 2026-11-04T15:14:10 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16421?startPos=6250&l=en 261104-3 3. Topical Questions C 5053 5053 Huw Irranca-Davies https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=5053 Llywydd Irranca-Davies, Huw We move on now to the next item, which is item 3, topical questions. Jane Dodds. 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782936 229 Cy 261104-3 3. Topical Questions B Dŵr Cymru 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782938 230 Cy 2026-11-04T15:14:19 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16421?startPos=6259&l=en 261104-3 3. Topical Questions C 4983 4983 Jane Dodds https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=4983 Dodds, Jane Thank you very much, and good afternoon again, Cabinet Minister. Thank you for waiting for this. 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782937 231 Cy 261104-3 3. Topical Questions O 4983 4983 Jane Dodds https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=4983 Dodds, Jane 1. Will the Cabinet Minister make a statement on the performance of Dŵr Cymru following Ofwat's latest operational performance report? TQ1513 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782940 232 En 2026-11-04T15:14:33 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16421?startPos=6273&l=en 261104-3 3. Topical Questions C 425 425 Llyr Gruffydd https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=425 Gruffydd, Llyr I welcome Ofwat's report, and I am concerned by the issues highlighted by the regulators. It's clear that water companies in Wales must deliver sustained improvements for customers and for the environment. This Government will continue to work with regulators to hold companies to account and will take full control, hopefully, of water in Wales so that we can strengthen accountability and ensure regulation reflects Welsh priorities. 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782942 233 Cy 2026-11-04T15:15:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16421?startPos=6300&l=en 261104-3 3. Topical Questions C 4983 4983 Jane Dodds https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=4983 Dodds, Jane Thank you for that response. 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782887 234 En 2026-11-04T15:15:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16421?startPos=6300&l=en 261104-3 3. Topical Questions C 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782892 235 Cy 2026-11-04T15:15:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16421?startPos=6300&l=en 261104-3 3. Topical Questions C 4983 4983 Jane Dodds https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=4983 Dodds, Jane Thank you for that response. 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782893 236 En 2026-11-04T15:15:02 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16421?startPos=6302&l=en 261104-3 3. Topical Questions C 4983 4983 Jane Dodds https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=4983 Dodds, Jane We know Ofwat's report is so clear. Dŵr Cymru was the worst performer in England and Wales for external sewer flooding. This past month, we've seen report after report that has continued to damn them. For example, Surfers Against Sewage reported more than 100,000 sewage discharges across Welsh waters last year, lasting a combined 94 days. Yet customers are being asked to pay more to Dŵr Cymru. The average household bill has risen by £180, or 36 per cent, in the last two years. So, while our rivers are fouled and bills soar, what do we see at the top of Dŵr Cymru? Well, the new chief executive of Dŵr Cymru, Roch Cheroux, says that customers face a choice: you pay higher bills, or wait longer for the infrastructure upgrades that Dŵr Cymru needs. At the same time, let's just remind ourselves of the salary that he receives. He receives £460,000 a year alongside a potential bonus of £621,000 a year, which gives a total package of nearly £1 million. He has the highest paid job in Welsh public life. I think that this is absolutely ludicrous, and so would many Welsh Water bill payers, such as us, probably, in this Siambr. A company already fined for breaking its permits has no business asking families to, what is in effect, subsidise its chief executive's pay. That is a gross injustice, and people all over Wales know it, from the Usk to the Tawe and other rivers in Wales. They can see what the gross injustice is. So, I'd like to ask you, and we've raised this on a number of occasions here in the Siambr, and I know that you've heard this both in opposition and as a Government Minister. We're being asked to pay higher bills, and yet the chief executive is receiving higher pay. He should pay for these upgrades. Dŵr Cymru should pay for these upgrades. Can you assure us that the new chief executive will receive no bonus, that you will press for a review of his salary, and that these bills will not increase for us in order to fund these upgrades? Diolch yn fawr iawn. 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782921 237 En 2026-11-04T15:17:38 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16421?startPos=6458&l=en 261104-3 3. Topical Questions C 425 425 Llyr Gruffydd https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=425 Gruffydd, Llyr Thank you for those comments, much of which I agree with. Of course, the Welsh Government has no—. Dŵr Cymru is not accountable to Welsh Government, it's accountable to the regulators. That's why we work with Ofwat and Natural Resources Wales. Ofwat has, of course, a power to deal with bonuses now in a way that they didn't have previously. So, we don't have a role in determining executive pay as much as maybe we would like. But when I do meet with Dŵr Cymru, because water is of huge public interest, I make it clear what my expectations are in terms of performance. And their performance on key metrics such as pollution incidents, leakage, customer outcomes are unacceptable and they need to improve. Now, we can recognise that progress is being made in some areas, internal sewer flooding and storm overflows, of course, but overall performance, as you say, is not where it needs to be. I expect Dŵr Cymru and Hafren Dyfrdwy and all companies to demonstrate sustained and measurable improvement, particularly on supply interruptions, on leakage, on external sewer flooding, on pollution, et cetera. Customers are being asked to fund significant investments in their water services. It's only, therefore, right that they can expect tangible improvements in performance, in resilience and in environmental outcomes. Regulators have to continue to hold the company firmly to account, making sure that commitments translate into improved outcomes, both for customers and for the environment. 16421 7 2026-11-04T13:30:00 782923 238 En 2026-11-04T15:19:21 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16421?startPos=6561&l=en 261104-3 3. Topical Questions C 4562 4562 Laura Anne Jones https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=4562 Jones, Laura Anne Firstly, I concur with all the concerns raised by Jane Dodds, and I thank her for raising something that is a matter that concerns us all. Welsh Water's supply interruption figure was one hour, 23 minutes against a five-minute target. Serious pollution incidents rose by half and the average household bill is £683. When you chaired the environment committee, Minister, you told Welsh Water to up its game. In June, you told this Chamber that you'd asked to meet with the chief executive. Did that meeting take place? What deadlines did you secure and will you publish them so people across Wales can see when they'll get the reliable water supply