16302 7 2026-10-05T13:30:18 775656 0 En 2026-10-05T13:34:59 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16302?startPos=286&l=en 261005-0 C 16302 7 2026-10-05T13:30:18 775616 1 Cy 261005-0 I The proceedings are reported in the language in which they were spoken in the committee. In addition, a transcription of the simultaneous interpretation is included. This is a draft version of the record.  16302 7 2026-10-05T13:30:18 775615 2 Cy 261005-0 I The committee met in the Senedd and by video-conference. The meeting began at 13:30. 16302 7 2026-10-05T13:30:18 775618 3 En 2026-10-05T13:30:18 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16302?startPos=5&l=en 261005-1 1. Introductions, apologies, substitutions and declarations of interest C 12185 12185 Cristiana Emsley https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12185 Emsley, Cristiana Good afternoon, everyone. Prynhawn da, bawb. Welcome to today's meeting of the Legislation Committee. I'd like to remind Members that the meeting is being broadcast live on Senedd.tv and the Record of Proceedings will be published as usual. May I ask that all mobile phone devices are switched to silent mode, please? I remind everyone that the Senedd operates through the medium of both the Welsh and English languages and that interpretation is available during today's meeting. Are there any declarations of interest? Thank you. We have Members who have joined us remotely, and Peredur Owen is represented today by Kiera Marshall. 16302 7 2026-10-05T13:30:18 775626 4 En 2026-10-05T13:31:07 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16302?startPos=54&l=en 261005-2 2. Instruments that raise no reporting issues under Standing Order 21.2 or 21.3 C 12185 12185 Cristiana Emsley https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12185 Emsley, Cristiana Moving on to item 2, instruments that raise no reporting issues under Standing Order 21.2 or 21.3, we have the Elections and Elected Bodies (Wales) Act 2024 (Amendment to Commencement Order No. 3) Order 2026. In your packs you'll find a draft report accompanied by a letter from the Cabinet Minister for Local Government, Housing and Planning, dated 18 September 2026. The Order commences sections 3 and 4 of the Elections and Elected Bodies (Wales) Act 2024 on the same day that the Representation of the People (Electoral Registration without Applications) (Electoral Reform) (Wales) Regulations 2026 come into force. Those 2026 regulations have been considered by this committee. They implement automatic voter registration ahead of the 2027 local government elections. Implementation of the 2026 regulations has been delayed as a result of the enhanced 60-day Senedd scrutiny procedure to which they are subject. Senedd lawyers have identified no reporting points. Do Members have any comments or observations? No. Are we content to agree the report? Thank you. 16302 7 2026-10-05T13:30:18 775630 5 En 2026-10-05T13:32:38 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16302?startPos=145&l=en 261005-3 3. Instruments that raise issues to be reported to the Senedd under Standing Order 21.2 or 21.3 C 12185 12185 Cristiana Emsley https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12185 Emsley, Cristiana Moving on to item 3, instruments that raise issues to be reported to the Senedd under Standing Order 21.2 or 21.3, item 3 is a standing agenda item, but there are no instruments to consider under this item today. 16302 7 2026-10-05T13:30:18 775634 6 En 2026-10-05T13:32:59 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16302?startPos=166&l=en 261005-4 4. Instruments that raise issues to be reported to the Senedd under Standing Order 21.2 or 21.3—previously considered C 12185 12185 Cristiana Emsley https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12185 Emsley, Cristiana Moving on to item 4, instruments that raise issues to be reported to the Senedd under Standing Order 21.2 or 21.3, previously considered, we have the Representation of the People (Electoral Registration without Applications) (Electoral Reform) (Wales) Regulations 2026. We have received a letter from the Cabinet Minister for Local Government, Housing and Planning, dated 29 September 2026. The committee considered these regulations and the response from the Welsh Government on 13 June. As a reminder, these regulations implement automatic voter registration across Wales. On 20 July, this committee wrote to the Welsh Government to seek more information about the financial implications of the regulations. This letter from the Cabinet Minister sets out that she has increased her estimate of the year 1 implementation costs of the regulations from £2.6 million to £4.4 million. The original explanatory memorandum has been withdrawn and an updated version has been tabled to reflect the increased costs. Do Members have any comments or observations? 16302 7 2026-10-05T13:30:18 775643 7 En 2026-10-05T13:34:24 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16302?startPos=251&l=en 261005-4 4. Instruments that raise issues to be reported to the Senedd under Standing Order 21.2 or 21.3—previously considered C 4787 4787 Peter Fox https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=4787 Fox, Peter Well, you've answered my—. I couldn't remember what the original costs were, and how much, so we're talking nearly double the cost. Where will the scrutiny come on the costings for this—through the Finance Committee? 16302 7 2026-10-05T13:30:18 775646 8 En 2026-10-05T13:34:39 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16302?startPos=266&l=en 261005-4 4. Instruments that raise issues to be reported to the Senedd under Standing Order 21.2 or 21.3—previously considered C 126 Sarah Sargent Sargent, Sarah The Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee are considering these regulations at the moment under the 60-day enhanced procedure. 16302 7 2026-10-05T13:30:18 775648 9 En 2026-10-05T13:34:45 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16302?startPos=272&l=en 261005-4 4. Instruments that raise issues to be reported to the Senedd under Standing Order 21.2 or 21.3—previously considered C 4787 4787 Peter Fox https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=4787 Fox, Peter Right. So, we'll see that on Thursday, then. 16302 7 2026-10-05T13:30:18 775650 10 En 2026-10-05T13:34:48 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16302?startPos=275&l=en 261005-4 4. Instruments that raise issues to be reported to the Senedd under Standing Order 21.2 or 21.3—previously considered C 126 Sarah Sargent Sargent, Sarah Yes. That's my understanding. They're scrutinising them. 16302 7 2026-10-05T13:30:18 775653 11 En 2026-10-05T13:34:50 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16302?startPos=277&l=en 261005-4 4. Instruments that raise issues to be reported to the Senedd under Standing Order 21.2 or 21.3—previously considered C 4787 4787 Peter Fox https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=4787 Fox, Peter Right, okay. 16302 7 2026-10-05T13:30:18 775654 12 En 2026-10-05T13:34:53 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16302?startPos=280&l=en 261005-4 4. Instruments that raise issues to be reported to the Senedd under Standing Order 21.2 or 21.3—previously considered C 12167 12167 Sarah Cooper-Lesadd https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12167 Cooper-Lesadd, Sarah Can you remind me: the £4.4 million, does it come from the Welsh Government budget, or is it from the wider UK budget? 16302 7 2026-10-05T13:30:18 775601 13 En 2026-10-05T13:35:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16302?startPos=287&l=en 261005-4 4. Instruments that raise issues to be reported to the Senedd under Standing Order 21.2 or 21.3—previously considered C 16302 7 2026-10-05T13:30:18 775639 14 Cy 2026-10-05T00:00:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16302?startPos=-48613&l=en 261005-4 4. Instruments that raise issues to be reported to the Senedd under Standing Order 21.2 or 21.3—previously considered C 16302 7 2026-10-05T13:30:18 775602 15 En 2026-10-05T13:35:01 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16302?startPos=288&l=en 261005-4 4. Instruments that raise issues to be reported to the Senedd under Standing Order 21.2 or 21.3—previously considered C 126 Sarah Sargent Sargent, Sarah We can double-check that information, unless Kate— 16302 7 2026-10-05T13:30:18 775603 16 En 2026-10-05T13:35:06 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16302?startPos=293&l=en 261005-4 4. Instruments that raise issues to be reported to the Senedd under Standing Order 21.2 or 21.3—previously considered C 9662 Kate Rabaiotti Rabaiotti, Kate We'd have to check. 16302 7 2026-10-05T13:30:18 775604 17 En 2026-10-05T13:35:07 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16302?startPos=294&l=en 261005-4 4. Instruments that raise issues to be reported to the Senedd under Standing Order 21.2 or 21.3—previously considered C 126 Sarah Sargent Sargent, Sarah Yes, we can check. 16302 7 2026-10-05T13:30:18 775605 18 En 2026-10-05T13:35:08 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16302?startPos=295&l=en 261005-4 4. Instruments that raise issues to be reported to the Senedd under Standing Order 21.2 or 21.3—previously considered C 9662 Kate Rabaiotti Rabaiotti, Kate I think it's Welsh Government, but we need to check on that. 16302 7 2026-10-05T13:30:18 775606 19 En 2026-10-05T13:35:09 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16302?startPos=296&l=en 261005-4 4. Instruments that raise issues to be reported to the Senedd under Standing Order 21.2 or 21.3—previously considered C 126 Sarah Sargent Sargent, Sarah We can check. 16302 7 2026-10-05T13:30:18 775607 20 En 2026-10-05T13:35:10 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16302?startPos=297&l=en 261005-4 4. Instruments that raise issues to be reported to the Senedd under Standing Order 21.2 or 21.3—previously considered C 12185 12185 Cristiana Emsley https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12185 Emsley, Cristiana Thank you. Any other points?  Moving on to the next item, the Child Minding and Day Care Exceptions (Revocation and Transitional Provision) (Wales) (Amendment) Order 2026, in your pack you'll find the report and the Welsh Government response. The committee considered this Order last week, and we've now received a Welsh Government response to our report. As a reminder, the Order sets out exceptions to what constitutes child minding and day care for children. Kate, would you like to give us an overview? 16302 7 2026-10-05T13:30:18 775620 21 En 2026-10-05T13:35:57 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16302?startPos=344&l=en 261005-4 4. Instruments that raise issues to be reported to the Senedd under Standing Order 21.2 or 21.3—previously considered C 9662 Kate Rabaiotti Rabaiotti, Kate Thank you. The committee's report identified an inconsistency between the Order and the explanatory memorandum relating to the powers relied on to make this Order. In the Welsh Government's response, they confirm that the error was in the explanatory memorandum, and so they've withdrawn this and laid a corrected version in its place. So, the issue is resolved. 16302 7 2026-10-05T13:30:18 775624 22 En 2026-10-05T13:36:16 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16302?startPos=363&l=en 261005-4 4. Instruments that raise issues to be reported to the Senedd under Standing Order 21.2 or 21.3—previously considered C 12185 12185 Cristiana Emsley https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12185 Emsley, Cristiana Thank you. Do Members have any comments or observations? Are we happy to note the Welsh Government's response? Thank you. The next item is the Local Authorities (Annual Sufficiency Plans) (Wales) Regulations 2026. Again, you have your report and the Welsh Government's response. The committee considered this Order last week, and we've now received a Welsh Government response to our report. As a reminder, the regulations relate to the information that local authorities must include in the annual sufficiency plans for accommodation for looked-after children. Again, Kate, would you like to give us your view? 16302 7 2026-10-05T13:30:18 775631 23 En 2026-10-05T13:37:06 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16302?startPos=413&l=en 261005-4 4. Instruments that raise issues to be reported to the Senedd under Standing Order 21.2 or 21.3—previously considered C 9662 Kate Rabaiotti Rabaiotti, Kate Thank you. The committee's reporting point here asked the Welsh Government to explain an apparent inconsistency in cross-referencing in relation to one of the definitions in the regulations. In their response, the Welsh Government explains that this is an error and they're looking to correct this via a correction slip. 16302 7 2026-10-05T13:30:18 775635 24 En 2026-10-05T13:37:22 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16302?startPos=429&l=en 261005-4 4. Instruments that raise issues to be reported to the Senedd under Standing Order 21.2 or 21.3—previously considered C 12185 12185 Cristiana Emsley https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12185 Emsley, Cristiana Thank you. Do Members have any comments or observations? Are you happy to note the Welsh Government's response? Yes. Thank you. 16302 7 2026-10-05T13:30:18 775641 25 En 2026-10-05T13:37:39 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16302?startPos=446&l=en 261005-5 5. Papers to note C 12185 12185 Cristiana Emsley https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12185 Emsley, Cristiana Moving on to the next item, papers to note, I'm going to go through some outgoing correspondence and read it out. We have a letter to the Cabinet Minister for Enterprise, Connectivity and Energy, supplementary legislative consent memorandum (memorandum No. 2) on the Commercial Payments Bill. You'll have the letter to the Cabinet Minister, dated 28 September. Next is a letter to the Counsel General and the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution regarding the general scrutiny session and related matters. We have the letter that's dated 28 September 2026. Next, the letter to the Deputy Minister for Public and Preventative Health on the statutory instrument consent memorandum on the Tobacco and Vapes Act 2026 (Display Of Tobacco Products) (Consequential Amendments) Regulations 2026, including the letter to the Deputy Minister, dated 28 September 2026. Items 5.1 to 5.3 are the outgoing letters that the committee signed off last week. Are Members content to note the outgoing correspondence? Yes. Thank you. Moving now to papers received, we have a letter from the Chair of the Economy, Energy and Connectivity Committee on the Railways Bill LCM, a letter from the Chair dated 25 September. Then, a letter from the Counsel General regarding the subordinate legislation requiring correcting instruments is dated 25 September. Next, a letter from the Cabinet Minister for Enterprise, Connectivity and Energy on legislative consent on the Cyber Security and Resilience (Network and Information Systems) Bill, dated 28 September. A letter from the Chair of the Constitution, Justice and External Affairs Committee on the inter-institutional relations agreement, dated 29 September. Please note that items 5.4 to 5.7 are papers received since the last committee meeting. Do Members have any questions or comments? Thank you. Are Members content to note the papers? Yes. Okay. Thank you.  16302 7 2026-10-05T13:30:18 775724 26 Cy 261005-6 6. Motion under Standing Order 17.42 to resolve to exclude the public from the remainder of the meeting I Motion: that the committee resolves to exclude the public from the remainder of the meeting in accordance with Standing Order 17.42(vi) and (ix). 16302 7 2026-10-05T13:30:18 775725 27 Cy 261005-6 6. Motion under Standing Order 17.42 to resolve to exclude the public from the remainder of the meeting I Motion moved. 16302 7 2026-10-05T13:30:18 775726 28 En 2026-10-05T13:40:24 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16302?startPos=611&l=en 261005-6 6. Motion under Standing Order 17.42 to resolve to exclude the public from the remainder of the meeting C 12185 12185 Cristiana Emsley https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12185 Emsley, Cristiana We now move to the next part of our debate today. In accordance with Standing Order 17.42(vi) and (ix), I invite the committee to resolve to exclude the public from the rest of today's meeting. Do Members agree? Yes. 16302 7 2026-10-05T13:30:18 775727 29 Cy 261005-6 6. Motion under Standing Order 17.42 to resolve to exclude the public from the remainder of the meeting I Motion agreed. The public part of the meeting ended at 13:40.