16262 7 2026-09-22T13:30:00 770699 0 Cy 260922-0 I This is a draft version of the Record that includes the floor language and the simultaneous interpretation.  [R] indicates that the Member has declared an interest when tabling the business. 16262 7 2026-09-22T13:30:00 770700 1 Cy 260922-0 I The Senedd met in the Chamber and by video-conference at 13:30 with the Llywydd (Huw Irranca-Davies) in the Chair. 16262 7 2026-09-22T13:30:00 770703 2 Cy 2026-09-22T13:30:02 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16262?startPos=2&l=en 260922-1 1. Questions to the First Minister C 5053 5053 Huw Irranca-Davies https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=5053 Llywydd Irranca-Davies, Huw Good afternoon, all. Let's make a start. We will begin with questions to the First Minister. The first question this afternoon is from Andrew R.T. Davies. 16262 7 2026-09-22T13:30:00 770704 3 Cy 260922-1 1. Questions to the First Minister B Global Centre of Rail Excellence 16262 7 2026-09-22T13:30:00 770705 4 Cy 260922-1 1. Questions to the First Minister O 143 143 Andrew R.T. Davies https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=143 Davies, Andrew R.T. 1. Will the First Minister provide an update on the Welsh Government's position on the Global Centre of Rail Excellence? OQ64526 16262 7 2026-09-22T13:30:00 770706 5 En 2026-09-22T13:30:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16262?startPos=0&l=en 260922-1 1. Questions to the First Minister C 2717 2717 Rhun ap Iorwerth https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=2717 First Minister of Wales ap Iorwerth, Rhun The question does indeed come at an opportune time. A review has been commissioned, looking at how to deliver the best outcome at the Nant Helen site. We are keen now to develop a clear direction of travel with GCRE Ltd. 16262 7 2026-09-22T13:30:00 770708 6 En 2026-09-22T13:30:34 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16262?startPos=34&l=en 260922-1 1. Questions to the First Minister C 143 143 Andrew R.T. Davies https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=143 Davies, Andrew R.T. Thank you for that update, First Minister. The ETRA committee in the last session visited the site and looked into the proposals that were presented to us. When this concept was first thought through, there was potential for 1,000 jobs coming to the site, and the Government of the day was told that there was huge demand for this testing facility. Regrettably, to date, not £1 of private money has gone into it. It is a huge site. I saw a media report saying it's the size of Gibraltar. There's a lot of remediation work to go into it. The one thing we were told as a committee was that the incoming Government, whoever that Government would be, needed to make a quick decision about future investment. The site has burned through £70 million of public money to date. When will you be in the position to formulate what the Government is going to do, bearing in mind £70 million of public money has already gone in, and £350 to £400 million is required to build this Global Centre of Rail Excellence? 16262 7 2026-09-22T13:30:00 770712 7 En 2026-09-22T13:31:34 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16262?startPos=94&l=en 260922-1 1. Questions to the First Minister C 2717 2717 Rhun ap Iorwerth https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=2717 First Minister of Wales ap Iorwerth, Rhun The Member makes very important points. Significant amounts of public funding have gone into the site already. I'm not going to criticise the concept that came from the current leader of the Labour Party, but we have to understand what has happened as those tens of millions of pounds have been spent on the site, and what maybe hasn't happened to enable us to be at a place where there is private funding willing and able and keen to come in. As I say, my Minister has commissioned that work now because I agree that we need to come to a decision soon in order to make the most of the opportunities for what is still a very important site. 16262 7 2026-09-22T13:30:00 770716 8 En 2026-09-22T13:32:23 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16262?startPos=143&l=en 260922-1 1. Questions to the First Minister C 12191 12191 Steven Rodaway https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12191 Rodaway, Steven First Minister, it's good to hear that you are commissioning a review, but this Chamber would like to understand that the confidence of your Government in this site must rest on a credible commercial case, which the public actually needs to understand. The additional proposed data centre and energy park may promise local jobs, but these benefits cannot justify an indefinite dependence on taxpayer-funded grants. After more than four months in office, your Government should be able to demonstrate how and when the development will attract private capital and generate a sufficient income to support itself. How will you make any further development conditional on a financially self-supporting business plan that delivers measurable local benefits without further taxpayer-funded grants to GCRE or participating companies? Thank you. 16262 7 2026-09-22T13:30:00 770718 9 En 2026-09-22T13:33:13 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16262?startPos=193&l=en 260922-1 1. Questions to the First Minister C 2717 2717 Rhun ap Iorwerth https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=2717 First Minister of Wales ap Iorwerth, Rhun Again, perfectly appropriate questions to ask. It is not just about making it a credible commercial proposition, it's making sure that the public money that has gone into it has been put to good use, and, as we consider the future, that we look at that balance of where Government works potentially with the private sector on what could be a whole host of different propositions. As I say, the fact that we understand the need to move quickly on this is why that review has been commissioned. Whatever the project, you cannot continue to move forward in an aimless way. This started from a point where there was a real belief in a particular project. Time has moved on. We need to make sure that, in 2026, we understand what the best project is now for that site. 16262 7 2026-09-22T13:30:00 770720 10 En 2026-09-22T13:33:14 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16262?startPos=194&l=en 260922-1 1. Questions to the First Minister C 12172 12172 Rebeca Phillips https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12172 Phillips, Rebaca The Global Centre of Rail Excellence is seen as a promising development for many across my constituency, showing the potential of green travel, a path towards net zero, and supporting the development of stronger, greener and more affordable transport systems right across the world. What other opportunities are there alongside this project that will help people in my constituency? Diolch. 16262 7 2026-09-22T13:30:00 770722 11 En 2026-09-22T13:34:36 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16262?startPos=276&l=en 260922-1 1. Questions to the First Minister C 2717 2717 Rhun ap Iorwerth https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=2717 First Minister of Wales ap Iorwerth, Rhun The Member again points to that original concept around rail. A lot has happened in rail since those times, not least the changes in direction around HS2 and so on. We need to understand where we are now, rather than where we were. We need to understand the significance of decisions that have been made to date. The Member will want to ensure that what we achieve  16262 7 2026-09-22T13:30:00 770733 12 En 2026-09-22T13:36:27 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16262?startPos=387&l=en 260922-1 1. Questions to the First Minister C 16262 7 2026-09-22T13:30:00 770696 13 En 2026-09-22T13:35:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16262?startPos=300&l=en 260922-1 1. Questions to the First Minister C 2717 2717 Rhun ap Iorwerth https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=2717 First Minister of Wales ap Iorwerth, Rhun that what we achieve there is something that is of value to the locality, to the constituency that she and others represent, and to the Welsh economy. And those are the principles that will be guiding my Cabinet Minister for enterprise, as he now works with the review and looks forward to seeing the results of that review pretty soon.  16262 7 2026-09-22T13:30:00 770698 14 Cy 2026-09-22T13:35:20 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16262?startPos=320&l=en 260922-1 1. Questions to the First Minister C 12156 12156 Huw Thomas https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12156 Thomas, Huw I also had an opportunity earlier this year to visit this site and to see the great potential that exists there not only for a centre of innovation in rail, but also as a place where you could have things such as data centres, which will help to unlock a broader project.  16262 7 2026-09-22T13:30:00 770701 15 En 2026-09-22T13:35:39 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16262?startPos=339&l=en 260922-1 1. Questions to the First Minister C 12156 12156 Huw Thomas https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12156 Thomas, Huw Welsh Labour invested £2 billion in the Heads of the Valleys road precisely for a reason like this, to connect communities, including along the M4 corridor but also in the old Valleys communities, with projects like this. If we are serious about bringing well-paid jobs and re-industrialising the former coalfields, this is exactly the kind of investment that Wales should secure, recognising that this will take public money as well as private money. So, I've heard a bit of an equivocation from you today, which will raise concerns from people wanting to see a rail solution bought forward. We want to see more trains brought forward into Wales, and this would help unlock that. Can you give a reason why your Government would not support the GCRE project specifically? And if you can't give a reason, will you perhaps today commit to supporting it? Diolch yn fawr.  16262 7 2026-09-22T13:30:00 770715 16 Cy 2026-09-22T13:36:26 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16262?startPos=386&l=en 260922-1 1. Questions to the First Minister C 2717 2717 Rhun ap Iorwerth https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=2717 ap Iorwerth, Rhun I think that I've been as open as I can be about the choice that we have to make as a Government now. And that choice is to assess what the best use is for, yes, public money but also the best way of attracting private investment in. And the problem with the railway plan as it is is that it has failed. It has failed to attract private investment and that's why we're in the situation that we're in today. The Member is correct, Llywydd, to say that what is needed is to consider the potential of the site. I could compare with the Anglesey Aluminium site. When the work there came to an end, what we had there was a site. And what needs to be done in that kind of situation is to think, 'Right, what's the best use for this site?', not being too tied to one possible element. And, of course, the railway option is still on the table, but what we are going to do is to look at the situation where we are now and to make the best decisions for the people of that area and the future of Wales's economy. 16262 7 2026-09-22T13:30:00 770734 17 Cy 260922-1 1. Questions to the First Minister B Healthcare Priorities 16262 7 2026-09-22T13:30:00 770735 18 Cy 260922-1 1. Questions to the First Minister O 145 145 Paul Davies https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=145 Davies, Paul 2. What are the Welsh Government's healthcare priorities for Ceredigion Penfro for the next twelve months? OQ64479 16262 7 2026-09-22T13:30:00 770736 19 En 2026-09-22T13:37:35 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16262?startPos=455&l=en 260922-1 1. Questions to the First Minister C 2717 2717 Rhun ap Iorwerth https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=2717 First Minister of Wales ap Iorwerth, Rhun Improving health outcomes, ensuring timely access to care, supporting sustainable NHS services for communities across Ceredigion Penfro is clearly a major priority for this new Government. As part of our vision to strengthening healthcare in rural and coastal areas in particular, we will engage closely with the local health board and partners to ensure high-quality, patient-centred services that genuinely do meet the needs of local people. We want to make sure they're delivered now, and into the future. 16262 7 2026-09-22T13:30:00 770740 20 En 2026-09-22T13:38:05 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16262?startPos=485&l=en 260922-1 1. Questions to the First Minister C 145 145 Paul Davies https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=145 Davies, Paul First Minister, I believe that the Welsh Government's healthcare priorities for Ceredigion Penfro must be to protect essential health services at its hospitals, so that patients do not have to travel further afield for treatment. Now, over the years, my constituents have seen health services centralised and moved further away by the local health board, despite clear public opposition to these changes. And there has been little, if any, intervention or challenge from a Welsh Government over the last 27 years. Now, following the change of Government in May, there was a sense of hope for my constituents that their views would be heard and the health board stopped, and, so far, that has not been the case. So, First Minister, what threshold must be crossed before the Welsh Government is prepared to intervene and prevent Hywel Dda University Health Board from further downgrading services in west Wales? And what message do you have for the people of Ceredigion Penfro who voted for a Government they believed would stand up for local communities and ensure that no further services are removed from their hospitals? 16262 7 2026-09-22T13:30:00 770745 21 En 2026-09-22T13:39:13 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16262?startPos=553&l=en 260922-1 1. Questions to the First Minister C 2717 2717 Rhun ap Iorwerth https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=2717 First Minister of Wales ap Iorwerth, Rhun Llywydd, the Member is absolutely right that we want to protect essential services, and most of us at one time or another have been involved in various campaigns around particular services in different places. I think the principles that we need to bear in mind always are that we provide timely services in the appropriate location. There will be different stories in different parts of Wales, but those are the principles that tie us together. Decisions on clinical services are taken by the health boards themselves. I know that the health board in this particular instance has looked at eight out of nine of the services that it provides and consulted on them, and put in place changes that it believes would provide better services to be delivered over the best part of a decade. These aren't overnight changes.  16262 7 2026-09-22T13:30:00 770697 22 En 2026-09-22T13:40:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16262?startPos=600&l=en 260922-1 1. Questions to the First Minister C 2717 2717 Rhun ap Iorwerth https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=2717 First Minister of Wales ap Iorwerth, Rhun These aren't overnight changes. And it's important to remember that these are changes that can take time. But my appeal, always, is for health boards, when they make those changes, when they consult, and afterwards, to ensure that people feel that they are engaged properly on those decisions. But there will be, clearly, different applications of different services in different parts of Wales. It's about getting that balance of appropriate services that will always put the patient first.  16262 7 2026-09-22T13:30:00 770710 23 En 2026-09-22T13:40:30 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16262?startPos=630&l=en 260922-1 1. Questions to the First Minister C 12180 12180 Paul Marr https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12180 Marr, Paul Thank you to Paul Davies for the question. First Minister, 35 per cent of Ceredigion households, and 23 per cent in Pembrokeshire rely on oil heating, among the highest rates in Wales. Public Health Wales warns that cold homes increase cardiovascular and respiratory risks, particular for older and vulnerable people. As your Government moves towards net zero, how will you ensure that rural households are not forced to ration heating because of the cost of that transition, and will you guarantee that keeping people warm and healthy comes before hitting arbitrary deadlines? Diolch.  16262 7 2026-09-22T13:30:00 770714 24 En 2026-09-22T13:41:04 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16262?startPos=664&l=en 260922-1 1. Questions to the First Minister C 2717 2717 Rhun ap Iorwerth https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=2717 First Minister of Wales ap Iorwerth, Rhun I will accept that there is a healthcare link there, Llywydd, and I'm being very, very generous. Because we know that a healthy home, a healthy environment, is important for people's health, so the Member is absolutely right in that respect. On oil heating in particular, of course, these are measures that are reserved. We have consistently appealed to the UK Government to make the right decisions when it comes to the options that it has at its disposal—that we haven't as a Welsh Government—to relieve the pressure on households in rural Wales in particular that are particularly dependent on off-grid oil. It is a principle that ties this Government together—that we think cross-departmentally. And the Member is right: we need to think housing, we need to think energy, we need to think health when it comes to the well-being of the people that we represent.  16262 7 2026-09-22T13:30:00 770719 25 En 2026-09-22T13:42:01 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16262?startPos=721&l=en 260922-1 1. Questions to the First Minister C 12178 12178 Anna Nicholl https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12178 Nicholl, Anna First Minister, I'd like to agree that protecting services at Bronglais and Withybush hospitals remains vital for communities across Ceredigion Penfro. However, in rural areas, we also need innovative ways of bringing healthcare closer to people's homes. Integrated care centres in Cardigan and Aberaeron show what can be achieved when we bring services together, and, again, bring them closer to people, taking the pressure off hospitals.  Having recently visited GP services in Fishguard, I know that there is strong local support for a similar approach there. Indeed, my colleague, Elin Jones, has previously worked with local councillors to make the case for an integrated care centre for Fishguard.  So, will the Welsh Government commit to working with Hywel Dda University Health Board, and local communities, to explore how towns such as Fishguard could benefit from integrated care facilities, ensuring rural communities are not left behind as healthcare services evolve? 16262 7 2026-09-22T13:30:00 770725 26 En 2026-09-22T13:43:01 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16262?startPos=781&l=en 260922-1 1. Questions to the First Minister C 2717 2717 Rhun ap Iorwerth https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=2717 First Minister of Wales ap Iorwerth, Rhun Many of us represent rural areas here, and the health of somebody in a rural part of Wales is as important as somebody in an urban part of Wales. We need to make sure that we have equitable healthcare, but it does mean that a different approach is needed. I'm really interested in the work that is developing—already has begun—into creating a centre of excellence on the delivery of rural healthcare in Bronglais Hospital, which could benefit all parts of Wales, not just Ceredigion Penfro. The programme for government commitment is clear. We want to ensure that integrated care is delivered closer to home, with prevention in particular at its core, to support earlier diagnosis, reduce admissions and delays in discharge. We have many ideas on how, in general, the delivery can be improved in rural areas, but health officials, I know, are engaging with the health board, and Pembrokeshire County Council, specifically on the development of that integrated centre in Fishguard.  16262 7 2026-09-22T13:30:00 770731 27 Cy 260922-1 1. Questions to the First Minister B Questions Without Notice from the Party Leaders 16262 7 2026-09-22T13:30:00 770732 28 Cy 2026-09-22T13:44:02 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16262?startPos=842&l=en 260922-1 1. Questions to the First Minister C 5053 5053 Huw Irranca-Davies https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=5053 Llywydd Irranca-Davies, Huw I now call on the party leaders to question the First Minister. First, leader of Reform UK, Helen Jenner. [Applause.] 16262 7 2026-09-22T13:30:00 770737 29 En 2026-09-22T13:44:14 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16262?startPos=854&l=en 260922-1 1. Questions to the First Minister C 12153 12153 Helen Jenner https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12153 Jenner, Hellen Diolch, Llywydd. First Minister, you so often stand on your soapbox and arrogantly claim that you and your party are the ones fighting injustice and standing up for Wales. Yet, you and your party had the chance last week to tackle rape gangs and to stand up for Wales by backing our Reform motion to help bring closure for women and girls by uncovering the extend of rape gang activity in Wales. But, instead, you voted, shamefully, against it. How on earth can women and girls expect you to have their best interests and safety at heart? 16262 7 2026-09-22T13:30:00 770741 30 En 2026-09-22T13:44:47 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16262?startPos=887&l=en 260922-1 1. Questions to the First Minister C 2717 2717 Rhun ap Iorwerth https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=2717 First Minister of Wales ap Iorwerth, Rhun Let me take this opportunity to congratulate the new leader of Reform in Wales on her election to the role. She is certainly a bold politician. Anybody who says she came into politics because she was impressed by the principles of Nigel Farrage 16262 7 2026-09-22T13:30:00 770709 31 En 2026-09-22T13:45:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16262?startPos=900&l=en 260922-1 1. Questions to the First Minister C 2717 2717 Rhun ap Iorwerth https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=2717 First Minister of Wales ap Iorwerth, Rhun because she was impressed by the principles of Nigel Farage certainly has to be seen as bold. There is nothing that is more important to any of us, hopefully, than safeguarding people that we have a duty of care for. That is why my Government at this moment is working on strengthening safeguarding and how it protects vulnerable people, including women and girls, potentially trafficked people, in all parts of Wales. That is something my Government is actively getting on with. 16262 7 2026-09-22T13:30:00 770713 32 En 2026-09-22T13:45:32 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16262?startPos=932&l=en 260922-1 1. Questions to the First Minister C 12153 12153 Helen Jenner https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12153 Jenner, Hellen You had the opportunity for a Wales focus there. Ironically, normally, we like to stand out, don't we, from the rest of the United Kingdom, but, in this case, you are happy to be absorbed into the UK inquiry. First Minister, the evidence suggests that rape gang activity may have been covered up by authorities to avoid racial tensions, and if we don't get to the bottom of what is among the most sickening organised criminal activities of our time, we cannot expect to prevent the risk of many more crimes of this nature. Last year, the Welsh Government said there was no current widespread issue with grooming gangs in Wales, and one of your current Ministers was accused by a grooming gang victim of downplaying her experience. Let's just have a look at the last 11 weeks alone: we've had two men imprisoned in Cardiff, five people convicted in Rhyl, and eight men across south Wales charged as part of Operation Oak, all relating to grooming gang type activity. First Minister, can you really look me in the eye and say that you didn't let down victims last week by voting against wanting a grooming gang investigation in Wales? 16262 7 2026-09-22T13:30:00 770723 33 En 2026-09-22T13:46:36 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16262?startPos=996&l=en 260922-1 1. Questions to the First Minister C 2717 2717 Rhun ap Iorwerth https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=2717 First Minister of Wales ap Iorwerth, Rhun I can look you in the eye every single day of the week and tell you that we have a Government that isn't interested in scoring political points about what is a very, very sensitive issue, and is interested in getting on with finding solutions. Now, we said that we needed to understand the scale of the problem in Wales. Work was done to understand the scale of the problem in Wales, and it is apparent, obviously, that we have issues here that we need to get to grips with in order to safeguard people, which is why my Government is giving all support to the inquiry that is currently looking at the lessons that can be learnt. She may want to make this a constitutional issue; I make this about the safety of people in Wales, and that is the difference between her and me. 16262 7 2026-09-22T13:30:00 770727 34 En 2026-09-22T13:47:22 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16262?startPos=1042&l=en 260922-1 1. Questions to the First Minister C 12153 12153 Helen Jenner https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12153 Jenner, Hellen First Minister, making sure victims' voices are heard, that is not political point scoring. Speaking of uncovering the truth, First Minister, I've got a couple of quotes to read to you today: 'Reform would look at the nation of sanctuary and say Welsh people come first when prioritising council housing, and that is really, really important to me.' Let me read you my second quote: 'Millions are being wasted on the tree-planting project, which is absolutely incredible, that we are sending money in Wales to Uganda.' First Minister, these were things said by a Senedd Member that now sits on your benches. Do you agree with these comments, 'yes' or 'no'? 16262 7 2026-09-22T13:30:00 770729 35 En 2026-09-22T13:48:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16262?startPos=1080&l=en 260922-1 1. Questions to the First Minister C 2717 2717 Rhun ap Iorwerth https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=2717 First Minister of Wales ap Iorwerth, Rhun What I admire is that somebody would have the bravery to stand up to this Reform group in the Senedd and say, 'I now can see you for what you are'. That is precisely what Sarah Cooper-Lesadd did last week. I firmly believe that, in politics, it is up to all of us to show that we are able to change, that we are able to see the light, politically, if you like, and so many other people are doing the same. We have now a scandal-ridden Reform Party that is collapsing in chaos around the new Reform leader in Wales. The Member said yesterday that she is all for unity and continuity, but her party is incapable of showing either. Perhaps she can tell us how much of the £72 million arising from the latest Reform scandal she hopes will come to Wales. Maybe she hopes it will be Barnetised. 16262 7 2026-09-22T13:30:00 770738 36 En 2026-09-22T13:48:54 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16262?startPos=1134&l=en 260922-1 1. Questions to the First Minister C 12153 12153 Helen Jenner https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12153 Jenner, Hellen 'Yes' or 'no'? OK. Diolch yn fawr. 16262 7 2026-09-22T13:30:00 770739 37 En 2026-09-22T13:48:59 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16262?startPos=1139&l=en 260922-1 1. Questions to the First Minister C 267 267 Ken Skates https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=267 Leader of Welsh Labour Skates, Ken First Minister, today we remember the deaths of hundreds of people in the Gresford mining disaster. It was an horrific disaster that devastated the community, and I'm sure you, First Minister, will also remember those who died. More than 260 bodies were recovered, but 253 remain entombed. Unfortunately, it wasn't just men that died; boys died in that disaster as well. It clearly was one of Wales's darkest days. Research by Wrexham.com shows that, whilst the Plaid Government was questioning the need and rationale for an extra £100 million to be spent on additional learning needs, it was at the very same time asking councils how much more they'd be spending on additional learning needs this year. Now, the data was published just before the supplementary budget vote on your own website. 16262 7 2026-09-22T13:30:00 770707 38 En 2026-09-22T13:50:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16262?startPos=1200&l=en 260922-1 1. Questions to the First Minister C 267 267 Ken Skates https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=267 Skates, Ken on your own website. And that figure, in total, for all councils and all schools in Wales was an extra £96.3 million—almost exactly the £100 million that Welsh Labour was saying was required to stabilise the system across Wales, and for which you received a major UK Labour Government windfall. Now, does this revelation, uncovered as I say by Wrexham.com, demonstrate that disadvantaged children risk coming second to this Plaid Cymru Government, behind free childcare for millionaires? 16262 7 2026-09-22T13:30:00 770711 39 En 2026-09-22T13:50:37 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16262?startPos=1237&l=en 260922-1 1. Questions to the First Minister C 2717 2717 Rhun ap Iorwerth https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=2717 First Minister of Wales ap Iorwerth, Rhun Let me, firstly, associate myself very much with the comments as we remember the Gresford disaster, and we send our thoughts to the community, for whom the pain of that day is still felt in many ways.  On additional learning needs, I remind the Labour leader that he was intending to spend £9 million, had they won the election. My party's manifesto made it a pledge to put ALN on a sustainable footing. We had a discussion, running up to the supplementary budget, where we were putting £100 million plus on the table, including £40 million for this year—for this year—which is what we gauged, working with officials and others, could actually be spent to take the pressure. That money is still on the table, and I appeal to the Member again: help us to get it out of the door to help those families and the schools and local authorities who need that money spent.  16262 7 2026-09-22T13:30:00 770747 40 En 2026-09-22T13:51:35 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16262?startPos=1295&l=en 260922-1 1. Questions to the First Minister C 267 267 Ken Skates https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=267 Skates, Ken First Minister, the £9 million that you refer to was before the UK Government budget. Once the UK Government budget had taken place and confirmation that more than £300 million was made available, the then education Minister, Lynne Neagle, was planning to spend an extra £100 million on additional learning needs, had we been re-elected. Now, I can provide clear, irrefutable evidence of how disadvantaged and disabled children will pay the price for your uncosted pledges. Clwb Cwtsh, which is the only provider of school holiday play for children with complex needs in north Wales, has just been told by the Plaid Government that funding for its services will end. The previous Labour Government here funded that provision, which is, as I say, for children with complex needs. I'm afraid unless your Government makes a u-turn on this, changes its mind and provides the funding to Clwb Cwtsh, it will be lost. So, can I urge you to reconsider the decision to end funding for this provision? Otherwise, I'm afraid disabled children will be paying the price for free childcare for millionaires. 16262 7 2026-09-22T13:30:00 770751 41 En 2026-09-22T13:52:48 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16262?startPos=1368&l=en 260922-1 1. Questions to the First Minister C 2717 2717 Rhun ap Iorwerth https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=2717 First Minister of Wales ap Iorwerth, Rhun I ask the Member to look again at when they were promising £9 million, and it was very much after that money was made available. And there are principles here about the ability for us to set directions here in Wales. I am familiar with Clwb Cwtsh. I don't know why the previous Labour administration didn't put its funding on a permanent basis. The Member might be able to shed some light on that. I do understand also that it fills an ALN gap. The Member is asking for £30,000 for that; I have £40 million on the table that I have sought, and continue to seek, agreement with the Member on. That money includes money that would directly go to Flintshire council, so I'm imagining that the leader of Flintshire council would be keen for the Labour leader here to help us get that money out of the door.  16262 7 2026-09-22T13:30:00 770754 42 Cy 2026-09-22T13:53:47 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16262?startPos=1427&l=en 260922-1 1. Questions to the First Minister C 5053 5053 Huw Irranca-Davies https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=5053 Llywydd Irranca-Davies, Huw The leader of the Welsh Conservatives, Darren Millar.  16262 7 2026-09-22T13:30:00 770756 43 En 2026-09-22T13:53:51 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16262?startPos=1431&l=en 260922-1 1. Questions to the First Minister C 171 171 Darren Millar https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=171 Leader of the Welsh Conservatives Millar, Darren First Minister, last week, the UK Government published the inflation figures. They showed that inflation was up, with prices rising by 3.1 per cent in the year to August, and of course economists forecast that that increase in inflation will continue to rise to above 4 per cent around the end of this year, in the coming months. And that's going to be as a result of the energy price cap going up, the increase in fuel prices eventually coming through. Now, many households in Wales are facing the pinch in their pockets, and they desperately need help. One thing that your Government could do to help people here in Wales is to take action on council tax. Can I ask you, First Minister, instead of making yet more demands for more power, why don't you help people with their council tax demands? Why don't you initiate a cap on council tax and legislate, with the powers that you already have, so that people require a referendum in order to give local residents a say for any increase above that cap? 16262 7 2026-09-22T13:30:00 770761 44 En 2026-09-22T13:54:54 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16262?startPos=1494&l=en 260922-1 1. Questions to the First Minister C 2717 2717 Rhun ap Iorwerth https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=2717 First Minister of Wales ap Iorwerth, Rhun I understand that the leader of the Conservatives wants to replicate policy in England. I am interested in what works for Wales 16262 7 2026-09-22T13:30:00 770717 45 En 2026-09-22T13:55:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16262?startPos=1500&l=en 260922-1 1. Questions to the First Minister C 2717 2717 Rhun ap Iorwerth https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=2717 First Minister of Wales ap Iorwerth, Rhun I'm interested in what works for Wales and it's about what works for council tax payers, Llywydd, and it's what works within the bounds of the finances of Welsh Government. And I remind the Senedd that we will be facing a real-terms cut in the day-to-day spending that we have available in the next financial year. Council tax is set, of course, by local authorities and it's important that it is. I would remind the Member that, in a recent budget deal before we came into power, we made sure that there was a baseline of increase in funding for councils, and a big part of that was to protect council tax payers, which I agree is something that's very, very important indeed. 16262 7 2026-09-22T13:30:00 770721 46 En 2026-09-22T13:55:40 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16262?startPos=1540&l=en 260922-1 1. Questions to the First Minister C 171 171 Darren Millar https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=171 Millar, Darren You know, I was listening to the radio this morning and I heard one of the commentators talking about it being a bad week for NATS; I thought they were talking about the Welsh nats, but actually, they were talking about the National Air Traffic Services, as it happens, and the chaos at our airports. One of the things that I want to see is fairness for council tax payers in Wales. You often talk about the need for fair funding between the England and Wales settlement—I get that, I completely get that and we support you on fair funding—but we need fair funding in Wales and we need fairness in council tax bills for people who have to struggle to pay them each and every year. The average band D council tax bill in Wales has risen by more than £600 over the past five years, and some residents have faced hikes of over 50 per cent over that period. It's totally unacceptable. We need urgent action to protect people from the sorts of excessive rises that some people have been having. So, can I urge you again: introduce a cap, legislate so that people have to have referendums for anything above that cap and do one more thing too, let's have a review—an independent review, truly independent—of the local government funding formula to make sure that there's fair funding to all parts of Wales, not just places favoured by the previous Labour Government. 16262 7 2026-09-22T13:30:00 770728 47 En 2026-09-22T13:57:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16262?startPos=1620&l=en 260922-1 1. Questions to the First Minister C 2717 2717 Rhun ap Iorwerth https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=2717 First Minister of Wales ap Iorwerth, Rhun Let's be positive and concentrate on the things that we agree on. Absolutely, we want to review, and looking at my local government Cabinet Minister, that is something that is happening under this Government, because it's important that people understand and feel that the decisions taken by Wales are equitable. The other element that I agree with him on is that we need fair funding for Wales. We have lived under successive Conservative Governments and now Labour Governments that are still not engaging on that need to get the fundamentals right when it comes to fair funding for Wales. And you can't separate the two, it is an absolute truism that a lack of fair funding at the top will come down in the end to the money in the pockets of people the length and breadth of Wales, including through pressures on council tax. We want to be able to help in many ways that we can. And on the rather glib start, if you're going to say it's a bad week for nats, actually choose a bad week that is a bad week for this Government. We're about to publish our programme for government, which is about transforming Wales, putting the health service on firmer footing, raising education standards, halving that productivity gap with the rest of the UK, creating great job opportunities, the most generous childcare offer anywhere in the UK in dealing with child poverty, and standing up for Wales, always, which is something I'm not hearing from any other party in this Chamber. 16262 7 2026-09-22T13:30:00 770742 48 Cy 260922-1 1. Questions to the First Minister B Adverse and Extreme Weather 16262 7 2026-09-22T13:30:00 770743 49 Cy 260922-1 1. Questions to the First Minister O 5025 5025 Anthony Slaughter https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=5025 Slaughter, Anthony 3. What is the Welsh Government doing to prepare for adverse and extreme weather events this winter? OQ64508 16262 7 2026-09-22T13:30:00 770744 50 En 2026-09-22T13:58:38 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16262?startPos=1718&l=en 260922-1 1. Questions to the First Minister C 2717 2717 Rhun ap Iorwerth https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=2717 ap Iorwerth, Rhun I know the Member agrees with me that the evidence is clear: climate change is increasing the frequency and intensity of extreme weather. We are committed to building stronger, more resilient communities across Wales in that changing context. We're working closely with partners, including through the Wales resilience forum and local resilience forums to prepare for winter risks, to strengthen response arrangements and learn from recent events. We're also making communities more resilient to flooding through continued investment in infrastructure and nature-based solutions. 16262 7 2026-09-22T13:30:00 770746 51 En 2026-09-22T13:59:10 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16262?startPos=1750&l=en 260922-1 1. Questions to the First Minister C 5025 5025 Anthony Slaughter https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=5025 Slaughter, Anthony Thank you. Last week, First Minister, you issued a statement saying that you will convene a resilience summit focusing on wildfires—very much welcomed. Yet, we must be ready for all of the escalating risks of a changing climate. This includes extreme cold, winter flooding and severe storms this coming winter. The Met Office has warned of a heightened risk on the horizon due to an unprecedented El Niño event this year, only highlighted in shocking headlines yesterday, recording the record-breaking of 150 years of records. Weaknesses in our infrastructure and our resilience, such as recently witnessed in Gwaelod-y-garth, will only become more apparent in the coming months. Wales is dangerously unprepared for the predicted onslaught of extreme weather conditions. Climate response must be integrated as our first line of defence. 16262 7 2026-09-22T13:30:00 770724 52 En 2026-09-22T14:00:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16262?startPos=1800&l=en 260922-1 1. Questions to the First Minister C 5025 5025 Anthony Slaughter https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=5025 Slaughter, Anthony integrated as our first line of defence. Welsh Government allocated in its supplementary budget just £1 million for emergency preparedness. Establishing a climate shock fund would be a vital step forward in demonstrating that the Welsh Government is serious about protecting communities this winter with or without UK Government support. What discussions has the First Minister had with the UK Government on funding these emergency measures? Diolch. 16262 7 2026-09-22T13:30:00 770730 53 En 2026-09-22T14:00:33 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16262?startPos=1833&l=en 260922-1 1. Questions to the First Minister C 2717 2717 Rhun ap Iorwerth https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=2717 First Minister of Wales ap Iorwerth, Rhun Thank you for the question. I think the world is largely unprepared for the challenges that we face. The question is how can we accelerate our preparedness. You will see in the programme for government today that climate change isn't seen as a priority in and of itself, it's one of the priorities that bind us all together as Government Ministers, because this has to be addressed across all portfolios. Resilience—I talked about this last week—is an issue that I have tried to focus a great deal on since I came into the role of First Minister, understanding the various elements that contribute to the resilience, or lack of, in some ways, that we have as a society. Wildfires happens to be the one that has grabbed our attention, which is why we need to make sure that we're tightening up those resilience elements around that in the summit on 22 October. But the Member is right, flooding is something that many communities will be concerned about. There are other concerns, too—the effects of heat, the effects of cold and so on. It is something that we work across the UK on. I want to ensure that Wales gets its fair share of resilience funding, civil contingency funding, across the UK, and that's something I'm eager to pursue. But the Member has my word that I will absolutely be looking at how we work between Welsh Government and UK Government to get the support that Wales needs to prepare for this wide range of threats that we face in future. 16262 7 2026-09-22T13:30:00 770749 54 En 2026-09-22T14:02:16 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16262?startPos=1936&l=en 260922-1 1. Questions to the First Minister C 8696 8696 Steve Bayliss https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=8696 Bayliss, Steve First Minister, I recognise that £85 million has been invested in flood risk management this year, but Rhondda Cynon Taf's investigation into storm Dennis has found that Blaenllechau was flooded from the steep hillside above it, that felling on Welsh Government-owned Natural Resources Wales-managed woodland may have contributed to surface water run-off, and that modelling suggested three of the four culverts networks lacked adequate capacity. This August, a major wildfire burned around 150 hectares of Llanwonno mountain, above Blaenllechau and Ferndale. So, before the winter rain arrives, will you ensure Natural Resources Wales and RCT carry out a co-ordinated inspection of that hillside, its drainage and culverts, with the Mining Remediation Authority checking any relevant higher category coal tips within or below that affected area, and report the findings and any remedial work required to the Senedd by the end of October? Diolch. 16262 7 2026-09-22T13:30:00 770752 55 En 2026-09-22T14:03:29 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16262?startPos=2009&l=en 260922-1 1. Questions to the First Minister C 2717 2717 Rhun ap Iorwerth https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=2717 First Minister of Wales ap Iorwerth, Rhun There is, of course, an ongoing programme of works that need to happen, some of them under the auspices of Welsh Government or its agencies, Natural Resources Wales, some that are the responsibility of local authorities. I have no doubt that, as we face the challenges of the winter, there needs to be just a double-checking of the robustness of those measures being put in place. I would say that, as well as making sure your culverts are able to deal with run-off, there are other questions and innovations that we need to be looking at in how you slow down that run-off. Clearly, hot weather and hard ground make the situation more difficult. I'm really interested in how we manage the land, working with farmers to try to limit run-off, and so on. We have to be aware that there are no silver bullets, there are no single measures that can be taken as we face these threats. They are multiple, and the need to be strategic in the way that we approach this is important, which is why the wildfires summit, in particular, looking at that threat, brings in so many different partners who will be able to contribute to making our resilience that much stronger. But I'm sure that your message will have been heard by local authorities and others today. 16262 7 2026-09-22T13:30:00 770757 56 En 2026-09-22T14:04:56 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16262?startPos=2096&l=en 260922-1 1. Questions to the First Minister C 12151 12151 Matthew Jones https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12151 Jones, Matthew First Minister, Monmouthshire has faced catastrophic flooding in recent