16256 7 2026-09-17T09:31:35 769806 0 En 2026-09-17T09:33:09 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16256?startPos=136&l=en http://www.senedd.tv/cy/16256?startPos=136&l=cy 260917-0 C 16256 7 2026-09-17T09:31:35 769790 1 Cy 260917-0 I Cofnodir y trafodion yn yr iaith y llefarwyd hwy ynddi yn y pwyllgor. Yn ogystal, cynhwysir trawsgrifiad o’r cyfieithu ar y pryd. Mae hon yn fersiwn ddrafft o’r cofnod.  The proceedings are reported in the language in which they were spoken in the committee. In addition, a transcription of the simultaneous interpretation is included. This is a draft version of the record.  16256 7 2026-09-17T09:31:35 769791 2 Cy 260917-0 I Cyfarfu’r pwyllgor yn y Senedd a thrwy gynhadledd fideo. Dechreuodd y cyfarfod am 09:31. The committee met in the Senedd and by video-conference. The meeting began at 09:31. 16256 7 2026-09-17T09:31:35 769793 3 En 2026-09-17T09:31:35 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16256?startPos=42&l=en http://www.senedd.tv/cy/16256?startPos=42&l=cy 260917-1 1. Cyflwyniadau, ymddiheuriadau, datgan buddiannau a dirprwyon 1. Introductions, apologies, declarations of interest and substitutions C 12152 12152 Carmelo Colasanto AS https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12152 https://busnes.senedd.cymru/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12152 Colasanto, Carmelo Good morning, everyone. I want to welcome Members and the public to this meeting of the Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee. I just want you to note that the public items of the meeting are being broadcast live on Senedd.tv and a record of the proceedings will be published. The meeting is bilingual and simultaneous interpretation from Welsh to English is available. We've received apologies this morning from Anthony Slaughter MS; there are no substitutions for him. I just ask at this point if there are any declarations of interest from anyone in the room or on the call. None. Thank you. 16256 7 2026-09-17T09:31:35 769799 4 En 2026-09-17T09:32:18 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16256?startPos=85&l=en http://www.senedd.tv/cy/16256?startPos=85&l=cy 260917-2 2. Rheoliadau Cynrychiolaeth y Bobl (Cofrestru Etholiadol heb Geisiadau) (Diwygio Etholiadol) (Cymru) 2026: Sesiwn dystiolaeth 1 2. The Representation of the People (Electoral Registration without Applications) (Electoral Reform) (Wales) Regulations 2026: Evidence session 1 C 12152 12152 Carmelo Colasanto AS https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12152 https://busnes.senedd.cymru/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12152 Colasanto, Carmelo We move to item 2, which is to take evidence to inform the committee's scrutiny of the Representation of the People (Electoral Registration without Applications) (Electoral Reform) (Wales) Regulations 2026. This is the committee's first evidence session, and it will hear from representatives of the Electoral Commission. You will have already received some papers—a research brief and papers 1 through to 4—in your packs. And we have two witnesses who will be attending remotely via Zoom. So, to the two witnesses, welcome. Would you like to introduce yourselves to the rest of the committee? 16256 7 2026-09-17T09:31:35 769801 5 En 2026-09-17T09:33:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16256?startPos=127&l=en http://www.senedd.tv/cy/16256?startPos=127&l=cy 260917-2 2. Rheoliadau Cynrychiolaeth y Bobl (Cofrestru Etholiadol heb Geisiadau) (Diwygio Etholiadol) (Cymru) 2026: Sesiwn dystiolaeth 1 2. The Representation of the People (Electoral Registration without Applications) (Electoral Reform) (Wales) Regulations 2026: Evidence session 1 C 12009 Tom Hawthorn Hawthorn, Tom Yes. Good morning. Thank you, Chair. I am Tom Hawthorn. I am head of policy for the UK Electoral Commission.  16256 7 2026-09-17T09:31:35 769804 6 En 2026-09-17T09:33:08 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16256?startPos=135&l=en http://www.senedd.tv/cy/16256?startPos=135&l=cy 260917-2 2. Rheoliadau Cynrychiolaeth y Bobl (Cofrestru Etholiadol heb Geisiadau) (Diwygio Etholiadol) (Cymru) 2026: Sesiwn dystiolaeth 1 2. The Representation of the People (Electoral Registration without Applications) (Electoral Reform) (Wales) Regulations 2026: Evidence session 1 C 10636 Tom Davies Davies, Tom Bore da, bawb. Tom Davies, policy and public affairs manager for the Electoral Commission in Wales. 16256 7 2026-09-17T09:31:35 769802 7 En 2026-09-17T09:33:14 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16256?startPos=141&l=en http://www.senedd.tv/cy/16256?startPos=141&l=cy 260917-2 2. Rheoliadau Cynrychiolaeth y Bobl (Cofrestru Etholiadol heb Geisiadau) (Diwygio Etholiadol) (Cymru) 2026: Sesiwn dystiolaeth 1 2. The Representation of the People (Electoral Registration without Applications) (Electoral Reform) (Wales) Regulations 2026: Evidence session 1 C 12152 12152 Carmelo Colasanto AS https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12152 https://busnes.senedd.cymru/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12152 Colasanto, Carmelo Thank you very much, Tom. So, I guess this is the point when we get to ask the gentlemen on the Zoom call any questions you may have. So, Peter, I think you want to talk about the evaluation of the pilots. 16256 7 2026-09-17T09:31:35 769807 8 En 2026-09-17T09:33:29 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16256?startPos=156&l=en http://www.senedd.tv/cy/16256?startPos=156&l=cy 260917-2 2. Rheoliadau Cynrychiolaeth y Bobl (Cofrestru Etholiadol heb Geisiadau) (Diwygio Etholiadol) (Cymru) 2026: Sesiwn dystiolaeth 1 2. The Representation of the People (Electoral Registration without Applications) (Electoral Reform) (Wales) Regulations 2026: Evidence session 1 C 4787 4787 Peter Fox AS https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=4787 https://busnes.senedd.cymru/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=4787 Fox, Peter Yes. Thank you, Chair. Good morning, both. Thank you for joining us this morning. It is an important area that we need to discover. I suppose, if I could start with some of your thoughts on the evaluation of the pilots and just, really, if you could help us understand the main challenges you've found, through the pilots, to delivering automatic voter registration effectively. What are they likely to be for us? 16256 7 2026-09-17T09:31:35 769809 9 En 2026-09-17T09:34:02 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16256?startPos=189&l=en http://www.senedd.tv/cy/16256?startPos=189&l=cy 260917-2 2. Rheoliadau Cynrychiolaeth y Bobl (Cofrestru Etholiadol heb Geisiadau) (Diwygio Etholiadol) (Cymru) 2026: Sesiwn dystiolaeth 1 2. The Representation of the People (Electoral Registration without Applications) (Electoral Reform) (Wales) Regulations 2026: Evidence session 1 C 12009 Tom Hawthorn Hawthorn, Tom Great, thank you. I think I'll start with that question. I think the first thing that we wanted to say was, really, that these regulations are a really important and welcome first step forward in terms of modernising electoral registration and helping to improve both the accuracy and completeness of electoral registers, which is something that our research has been highlighting as a concern for many years, both in Wales but also across the UK as a whole. Just in terms of the issues that our evaluation highlighted and the recommendations that we made to Welsh Government and to electoral registration officers, many of those have already been addressed in these regulations, which, again, is very welcome, for example the change to the minimum frequency of the AVR process, the shorter notification period and, particularly, the requirement for the notification to be sent in hard copy by post and also to be accompanied by the invitation to register for the UK parliamentary register. So, some important and welcome changes to the process as a result of the evaluation. But we do think, flowing on from the experience of the pilots last year, there are some outstanding challenges around implementation, and we've highlighted those in our written evidence and are aware that other organisations have also highlighted these points. So, there are three particular points that we think are worth bearing in mind. I think, first, it's clear that we have some increasingly challenging timescales in terms of when the regulations will come into force, and then the subsequent activity that registration officers will need to make sure takes place so that electors can get registered and added to the register automatically in time for the local government elections next May. And those timescales are going to be placing a lot of pressure on electoral services teams at a time when they are already delivering the annual canvass this year and when they should be beginning their preparations for the elections next year. The second area that I think we want to highlight is around the electoral management software systems that registration officers use and the functionality that's going to be needed—the new functionality that's going to be needed to deliver automatic registration. We still have some uncertainty about when those updates to those systems will be available and ready to support the delivery of automatic registration. And then the final point is possibly a longer term point as well, which is how best to ensure greater consistency across Wales in terms of the data sources that the ROs are able to access for the purpose of identifying new electors. So, I think, for this year, these kinds of challenges will undoubtedly make it harder to deliver automatic voter registration. But as I said, this is an important first step in the right direction and it also provides a process that can continue to be refined and improved over the next few years, as we build towards the next set of Welsh elections in 2030 and 2032. And we also just would like to, I suppose, highlight that it would certainly be something of a missed opportunity if we couldn't get to a point where AVR could be rolled out ahead of next year's local elections, because it would mean that voters would not see the benefit in real terms in being able to participate in elections until the next Senedd elections in 2030 at the very earliest. 16256 7 2026-09-17T09:31:35 769813 10 En 2026-09-17T09:35:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16256?startPos=247&l=en http://www.senedd.tv/cy/16256?startPos=247&l=cy 260917-2 2. Rheoliadau Cynrychiolaeth y Bobl (Cofrestru Etholiadol heb Geisiadau) (Diwygio Etholiadol) (Cymru) 2026: Sesiwn dystiolaeth 1 2. The Representation of the People (Electoral Registration without Applications) (Electoral Reform) (Wales) Regulations 2026: Evidence session 1 C 16256 7 2026-09-17T09:31:35 769817 11 En 2026-09-17T09:37:28 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16256?startPos=395&l=en http://www.senedd.tv/cy/16256?startPos=395&l=cy 260917-2 2. Rheoliadau Cynrychiolaeth y Bobl (Cofrestru Etholiadol heb Geisiadau) (Diwygio Etholiadol) (Cymru) 2026: Sesiwn dystiolaeth 1 2. The Representation of the People (Electoral Registration without Applications) (Electoral Reform) (Wales) Regulations 2026: Evidence session 1 C 4787 4787 Peter Fox AS https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=4787 https://busnes.senedd.cymru/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=4787 Fox, Peter Thanks for that and thanks for pointing out the challenges and how they—. Well, can they be addressed? I have some concerns, and I think you have some significant concerns yourself around timing, yet you're saying that it would be a shame if it doesn't go ahead—that's what I think you were saying—for these elections. But are you confident, then, that those areas of challenge can be sufficiently managed to enable this to actually happen for this next election? I'm sure there'll be further questions on that later. 16256 7 2026-09-17T09:31:35 769825 12 En 2026-09-17T09:38:13 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16256?startPos=440&l=en http://www.senedd.tv/cy/16256?startPos=440&l=cy 260917-2 2. Rheoliadau Cynrychiolaeth y Bobl (Cofrestru Etholiadol heb Geisiadau) (Diwygio Etholiadol) (Cymru) 2026: Sesiwn dystiolaeth 1 2. The Representation of the People (Electoral Registration without Applications) (Electoral Reform) (Wales) Regulations 2026: Evidence session 1 C 12009 Tom Hawthorn Hawthorn, Tom Yes, I think we're pleased that the Welsh Government are addressing all these issues. They have a working group that they have set up and they are taking feedback and information from electoral registration officers. They're responding to those concerns. I think the primary driver for the concern is around the timescales for the legislation and then the delivery of the changes to the electoral management software systems. So, I think if there were to be any delay to the regulations, then I think that's where the most significant challenge to delivery for the May 2027 elections would come. 16256 7 2026-09-17T09:31:35 769828 13 En 2026-09-17T09:38:51 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16256?startPos=478&l=en http://www.senedd.tv/cy/16256?startPos=478&l=cy 260917-2 2. Rheoliadau Cynrychiolaeth y Bobl (Cofrestru Etholiadol heb Geisiadau) (Diwygio Etholiadol) (Cymru) 2026: Sesiwn dystiolaeth 1 2. The Representation of the People (Electoral Registration without Applications) (Electoral Reform) (Wales) Regulations 2026: Evidence session 1 C 4787 4787 Peter Fox AS https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=4787 https://busnes.senedd.cymru/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=4787 Fox, Peter Thanks. That's okay for me, Chair. I don't know if anybody else wants to come in on that one. 16256 7 2026-09-17T09:31:35 769830 14 En 2026-09-17T09:38:58 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16256?startPos=485&l=en http://www.senedd.tv/cy/16256?startPos=485&l=cy 260917-2 2. Rheoliadau Cynrychiolaeth y Bobl (Cofrestru Etholiadol heb Geisiadau) (Diwygio Etholiadol) (Cymru) 2026: Sesiwn dystiolaeth 1 2. The Representation of the People (Electoral Registration without Applications) (Electoral Reform) (Wales) Regulations 2026: Evidence session 1 C 12152 12152 Carmelo Colasanto AS https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12152 https://busnes.senedd.cymru/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12152 Colasanto, Carmelo David. 16256 7 2026-09-17T09:31:35 769831 15 En 2026-09-17T09:38:59 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16256?startPos=486&l=en http://www.senedd.tv/cy/16256?startPos=486&l=cy 260917-2 2. Rheoliadau Cynrychiolaeth y Bobl (Cofrestru Etholiadol heb Geisiadau) (Diwygio Etholiadol) (Cymru) 2026: Sesiwn dystiolaeth 1 2. The Representation of the People (Electoral Registration without Applications) (Electoral Reform) (Wales) Regulations 2026: Evidence session 1 C 12159 12159 David Hughes AS https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12159 https://busnes.senedd.cymru/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12159 Hughes, David Yes. You talked about the equipment that is going to be used—the software. Having worked in a local authority and worked in children's services, when they brought in new equipment, which was supposed to come in at the beginning of the year, it wasn't ready until the year after. How do we think that this equipment—? Are you sure that it would be ready to bring out before 2027 for the local elections? 16256 7 2026-09-17T09:31:35 769835 16 En 2026-09-17T09:39:37 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16256?startPos=524&l=en http://www.senedd.tv/cy/16256?startPos=524&l=cy 260917-2 2. Rheoliadau Cynrychiolaeth y Bobl (Cofrestru Etholiadol heb Geisiadau) (Diwygio Etholiadol) (Cymru) 2026: Sesiwn dystiolaeth 1 2. The Representation of the People (Electoral Registration without Applications) (Electoral Reform) (Wales) Regulations 2026: Evidence session 1 C 12009 Tom Hawthorn Hawthorn, Tom Yes, I think we have identified that as a concern, but it is a risk that Welsh Government are managing. I would say that two things are important to bear in mind. These are not new systems per se. The electoral management software systems have been used by registration officers for many, many years. These are updates and changes to its functionality. And I think the other thing is that these are changes that have already been tested through the pilots, albeit not all of the software suppliers were involved in those pilots. So, we have a good starting point, but it is a live issue that Welsh Government is aware of and we and the local authorities who are involved are monitoring and providing support to help resolve. 16256 7 2026-09-17T09:31:35 769814 17 En 2026-09-17T09:40:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16256?startPos=547&l=en http://www.senedd.tv/cy/16256?startPos=547&l=cy 260917-2 2. Rheoliadau Cynrychiolaeth y Bobl (Cofrestru Etholiadol heb Geisiadau) (Diwygio Etholiadol) (Cymru) 2026: Sesiwn dystiolaeth 1 2. The Representation of the People (Electoral Registration without Applications) (Electoral Reform) (Wales) Regulations 2026: Evidence session 1 C 16256 7 2026-09-17T09:31:35 769819 18 En 2026-09-17T09:40:33 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16256?startPos=580&l=en http://www.senedd.tv/cy/16256?startPos=580&l=cy 260917-2 2. Rheoliadau Cynrychiolaeth y Bobl (Cofrestru Etholiadol heb Geisiadau) (Diwygio Etholiadol) (Cymru) 2026: Sesiwn dystiolaeth 1 2. The Representation of the People (Electoral Registration without Applications) (Electoral Reform) (Wales) Regulations 2026: Evidence session 1 C 12152 12152 Carmelo Colasanto AS https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12152 https://busnes.senedd.cymru/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12152 Colasanto, Carmelo Thank you. Elyn. 16256 7 2026-09-17T09:31:35 769822 19 En 2026-09-17T09:40:40 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16256?startPos=587&l=en http://www.senedd.tv/cy/16256?startPos=587&l=cy 260917-2 2. Rheoliadau Cynrychiolaeth y Bobl (Cofrestru Etholiadol heb Geisiadau) (Diwygio Etholiadol) (Cymru) 2026: Sesiwn dystiolaeth 1 2. The Representation of the People (Electoral Registration without Applications) (Electoral Reform) (Wales) Regulations 2026: Evidence session 1 C 12164 12164 Elyn Stephens AS https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12164 https://busnes.senedd.cymru/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12164 Stephens, Elyn In terms of that software, is it one consistent system across Wales, or does each local authority have their own system or something that's slightly divergent? 16256 7 2026-09-17T09:31:35 769827 20 En 2026-09-17T09:40:52 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16256?startPos=599&l=en http://www.senedd.tv/cy/16256?startPos=599&l=cy 260917-2 2. Rheoliadau Cynrychiolaeth y Bobl (Cofrestru Etholiadol heb Geisiadau) (Diwygio Etholiadol) (Cymru) 2026: Sesiwn dystiolaeth 1 2. The Representation of the People (Electoral Registration without Applications) (Electoral Reform) (Wales) Regulations 2026: Evidence session 1 C 12009 Tom Hawthorn Hawthorn, Tom Each local authority has the ability to choose its own system. In practice, there are a small number of systems that are available for use by EROs across the United Kingdom, and they will be choosing from either two or three suppliers. So, it's not a big marketplace. The Welsh Government will be able to engage with each of those systems providers individually as well. 16256 7 2026-09-17T09:31:35 769829 21 En 2026-09-17T09:41:22 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16256?startPos=629&l=en http://www.senedd.tv/cy/16256?startPos=629&l=cy 260917-2 2. Rheoliadau Cynrychiolaeth y Bobl (Cofrestru Etholiadol heb Geisiadau) (Diwygio Etholiadol) (Cymru) 2026: Sesiwn dystiolaeth 1 2. The Representation of the People (Electoral Registration without Applications) (Electoral Reform) (Wales) Regulations 2026: Evidence session 1 C 12152 12152 Carmelo Colasanto AS https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12152 https://busnes.senedd.cymru/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12152 Colasanto, Carmelo Thank you. Peter, do you want to ask the next question? 16256 7 2026-09-17T09:31:35 769832 22 En 2026-09-17T09:41:25 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16256?startPos=632&l=en http://www.senedd.tv/cy/16256?startPos=632&l=cy 260917-2 2. Rheoliadau Cynrychiolaeth y Bobl (Cofrestru Etholiadol heb Geisiadau) (Diwygio Etholiadol) (Cymru) 2026: Sesiwn dystiolaeth 1 2. The Representation of the People (Electoral Registration without Applications) (Electoral Reform) (Wales) Regulations 2026: Evidence session 1 C 4787 4787 Peter Fox AS https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=4787 https://busnes.senedd.cymru/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=4787 Fox, Peter Yes. You've got me again, I'm afraid. [Laughter.] I just wanted to explore a little bit more about the notification period to opt out. I know that you were recommending a significant reduction in the notification period and are comfortable with a 28-day period. We know that, originally, the regulations were allowing for 45 days and then a—. Well, it was me, actually; I think I helped to encourage the Government to adopt 60 days for the pilots. I wonder if you could break that down a bit—why you believe, then, that there is a benefit for the 60-day reduction, and perhaps give some of your thinking around the time frames that you're suggesting. 16256 7 2026-09-17T09:31:35 769839 23 En 2026-09-17T09:42:20 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16256?startPos=687&l=en http://www.senedd.tv/cy/16256?startPos=687&l=cy 260917-2 2. Rheoliadau Cynrychiolaeth y Bobl (Cofrestru Etholiadol heb Geisiadau) (Diwygio Etholiadol) (Cymru) 2026: Sesiwn dystiolaeth 1 2. The Representation of the People (Electoral Registration without Applications) (Electoral Reform) (Wales) Regulations 2026: Evidence session 1 C 10636 Tom Davies Davies, Tom Yes, and maybe I could start on that one. From our perspective, the main benefits of reducing the notification period are a greater flexibility for EROs in relation to the timing of that automatic registration exercise, so fitting it in, essentially, to the rest of the electoral calendar that they have. It would make it easier for EROs to align ending the notification period with a rolling register update, so a monthly notice of alteration or the publication of the revised register.  I think that one of the main things is a lessened risk of elector confusion about whether they're registered to vote or not. So, getting that notification and then the length of the period—. With a shorter period, at least there's some clarity as to, 'Okay, I'm registered from this point.' That's a particularly important factor around any by-elections that might take place. So, if a by-election were to end up taking place during a notification period in the local authority area, it wouldn't be ideal just because the ERO would then need to contact anyone who is in that period and would essentially have to ask them to go ahead and complete a normal application to register instead and to do so before the deadline for that by-election. So, from our perspective, any notification period that is longer than it needs to be increases the risk of that by-election falling within the notification period. And just to say as well, the feedback we received from the local authorities as part of the pilot evaluation suggests that, while the 60-day period in and of itself didn't present any significant issues, most of the responses that were received from people who chose to opt out tended to be within the first two to three weeks of the 60-day period. So, that's some of the rationale behind our recommendation for it to be shortened. I think it's also become fairly apparent since our evaluation last year in some of the discussions with Welsh Government and stakeholders at the working group that, just in terms of some of the implementation timescales that Tom Hawthorn was just talking about and getting this rolled out in time for 2027, a longer notification period than the 28 days that has been opted for by the Welsh Government makes an already challenging timescale even more challenging. So, whilst I think it could be something that could get looked at for the business-as-usual AVR process, there is a point there around specific year 1 implementation for 2027, and just with the timescales we're working up against, going much longer than 28 days would be quite difficult. And, obviously, there are risks there as well, which I'm sure we'll get into, but— 16256 7 2026-09-17T09:31:35 769794 24 En 2026-09-17T09:45:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16256?startPos=847&l=en http://www.senedd.tv/cy/16256?startPos=847&l=cy 260917-2 2. Rheoliadau Cynrychiolaeth y Bobl (Cofrestru Etholiadol heb Geisiadau) (Diwygio Etholiadol) (Cymru) 2026: Sesiwn dystiolaeth 1 2. The Representation of the People (Electoral Registration without Applications) (Electoral Reform) (Wales) Regulations 2026: Evidence session 1 C 16256 7 2026-09-17T09:31:35 769795 25 En 2026-09-17T09:45:08 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16256?startPos=855&l=en http://www.senedd.tv/cy/16256?startPos=855&l=cy 260917-2 2. Rheoliadau Cynrychiolaeth y Bobl (Cofrestru Etholiadol heb Geisiadau) (Diwygio Etholiadol) (Cymru) 2026: Sesiwn dystiolaeth 1 2. The Representation of the People (Electoral Registration without Applications) (Electoral Reform) (Wales) Regulations 2026: Evidence session 1 C 4787 4787 Peter Fox AS https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=4787 https://busnes.senedd.cymru/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=4787 Fox, Peter Yes.  16256 7 2026-09-17T09:31:35 769796 26 En 2026-09-17T09:45:09 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16256?startPos=856&l=en http://www.senedd.tv/cy/16256?startPos=856&l=cy 260917-2 2. Rheoliadau Cynrychiolaeth y Bobl (Cofrestru Etholiadol heb Geisiadau) (Diwygio Etholiadol) (Cymru) 2026: Sesiwn dystiolaeth 1 2. The Representation of the People (Electoral Registration without Applications) (Electoral Reform) (Wales) Regulations 2026: Evidence session 1 C 10636 Tom Davies Davies, Tom —in terms of the kind of main benefits we've identified, those would be them.  16256 7 2026-09-17T09:31:35 769797 27 En 2026-09-17T09:45:12 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16256?startPos=859&l=en http://www.senedd.tv/cy/16256?startPos=859&l=cy 260917-2 2. Rheoliadau Cynrychiolaeth y Bobl (Cofrestru Etholiadol heb Geisiadau) (Diwygio Etholiadol) (Cymru) 2026: Sesiwn dystiolaeth 1 2. The Representation of the People (Electoral Registration without Applications) (Electoral Reform) (Wales) Regulations 2026: Evidence session 1 C 4787 4787 Peter Fox AS https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=4787 https://busnes.senedd.cymru/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=4787 Fox, Peter Thanks for that. And I just want to explore some of those, because I think there are several bodies related to the whole election process who can acknowledge that a reduction in that time frame might be advantageous in some ways, but then there are serious concerns being voiced by the same people about those who might be more vulnerable, disabled, in circumstances where they're threatened by domestic abuse, and they don't want their data being put out. And so there are some real issues around safeguards around this, and some anxiety from One Voice Wales, for instance, and our local authorities, who can see both sides of the coin. And we know that the Electoral Reform Society also believes that, whilst we might need some change, we need really strong safeguards around that. So, where are you on that? And what engagement has been had with those harder-to-reach communities on the ones that are taxing people a little with regard to safeguarding? 16256 7 2026-09-17T09:31:35 769805 28 En 2026-09-17T09:46:30 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16256?startPos=937&l=en http://www.senedd.tv/cy/16256?startPos=937&l=cy 260917-2 2. Rheoliadau Cynrychiolaeth y Bobl (Cofrestru Etholiadol heb Geisiadau) (Diwygio Etholiadol) (Cymru) 2026: Sesiwn dystiolaeth 1 2. The Representation of the People (Electoral Registration without Applications) (Electoral Reform) (Wales) Regulations 2026: Evidence session 1 C 10636 Tom Davies Davies, Tom Yes, I agree on that as a risk. So, our evaluation noted that one of the sort of drawbacks, I suppose, of the shorter notification period would be, (1), adding an elector to the register when they don't want to be added. So, this is obviously the concern you're talking about, and the principle behind it is less time to receive the letter and have sight of it and then contact the ERO. And then, a kind of secondary risk, I suppose, of adding an elector to the register incorrectly, where perhaps the letter goes to a house where the intended recipient no longer lives, or never lived, so, again, it's less time for existing residents to be able to contact the ERO.  In terms of potential mitigations to this, and just trying to find that right balance between deliverability and meeting some of those concerns, there's the fact that the open version of the register for devolved elections in Wales will have been abolished. That's the change that the Welsh Government will be bringing in from October, as part of the preparation and the groundwork for these regulations. That's something we've welcomed and previously recommended, and it will mean that, for people who are added to the register via any process now for the devolved version in Wales, businesses et cetera won't be able to purchase a copy of that open register. And then, going back to some of our recommendations, a lot of the recommendations in our evaluation were focused around this issue. So, for example, we recommended that the notification letter should have to be sent in hard copy rather than by e-mail, for various reasons, but one of which was that a hard copy notification is more likely to be noticed, less likely to be missed. Also, the regulations themselves have a few prescribed things that the notification must say. So, it must have information on the ability to opt out. It must be have information on the ability to apply for anonymous registration, if applicable. And it also has to specify the final date of the day of the notice. So, that's all a kind of good level of mitigation from our perspective.  And then, in terms of engagement with groups—I think we mentioned this in our written evidence—we understand the Welsh Government is considering or planning some form of engagement with relevant stakeholders on anonymous registration and communicating the changes. From an Electoral Commission perspective, we'll be updating information on our websites around registration, if the regulations are passed, to reflect automatic registration as a kind of new system in Wales. And, as part of that, we'll include information highlighting that there options to opt out of the process, options around anonymous registration.  I think the only other thing I'd just add, if that's okay, is, from the feedback of the authorities running pilots—and, obviously, we'll want to look at this again as part of a national roll-out, and satisfy ourselves that it's a similar kind of picture—across the pilots, where potential electors did contact the ERO wanting to opt out, it was a very, very small number. So, it was between 0.2 per cent, I think, in Newport—. It  was 0.2 per cent in Gwynedd, sorry, and 4 per cent in Newport, and then Powys somewhere in between. So, really relatively small numbers, and I think a very common reason—possibly the most common reason—was parents checking if it was correct that 14 and 15-year-olds should be added to the register as an attainer. So, in that case, following an explanation from the electoral services team, that that is in fact the case and that it would be the same process for an attainer if they registered as an attainer in the normal manner, that query was resolved. Others chose to opt out. But, yes, a small number of queries from people as well who didn't want to appear on the register for safety reasons, and they were concerned by the notification that they were about to be registered. So, in that situation, electoral services teams can, obviously, highlight the option of anonymous registration, but, from the experience of the pilots, a lot of people weren't satisfied by the process or the option of anonymous registration either and would prefer to avoid registering entirely. 16256 7 2026-09-17T09:31:35 769812 29 En 2026-09-17T09:50:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16256?startPos=1147&l=en http://www.senedd.tv/cy/16256?startPos=1147&l=cy 260917-2 2. Rheoliadau Cynrychiolaeth y Bobl (Cofrestru Etholiadol heb Geisiadau) (Diwygio Etholiadol) (Cymru) 2026: Sesiwn dystiolaeth 1 2. The Representation of the People (Electoral Registration without Applications) (Electoral Reform) (Wales) Regulations 2026: Evidence session 1 C 16256 7 2026-09-17T09:31:35 769843 30 En 2026-09-17T09:50:54 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16256?startPos=1201&l=en http://www.senedd.tv/cy/16256?startPos=1201&l=cy 260917-2 2. Rheoliadau Cynrychiolaeth y Bobl (Cofrestru Etholiadol heb Geisiadau) (Diwygio Etholiadol) (Cymru) 2026: Sesiwn dystiolaeth 1 2. The Representation of the People (Electoral Registration without Applications) (Electoral Reform) (Wales) Regulations 2026: Evidence session 1 C 4787 4787 Peter Fox AS https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=4787 https://busnes.senedd.cymru/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=4787 Fox, Peter Were you content, then, with the evaluation of the pilots, that vulnerable people had been engaged with enough? 16256 7 2026-09-17T09:31:35 769851 31 En 2026-09-17T09:51:02 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16256?startPos=1209&l=en http://www.senedd.tv/cy/16256?startPos=1209&l=cy 260917-2 2. Rheoliadau Cynrychiolaeth y Bobl (Cofrestru Etholiadol heb Geisiadau) (Diwygio Etholiadol) (Cymru) 2026: Sesiwn dystiolaeth 1 2. The Representation of the People (Electoral Registration without Applications) (Electoral Reform) (Wales) Regulations 2026: Evidence session 1 C 10636 Tom Davies Davies, Tom From the content of the notification letter, in terms of putting that out there as a risk and to flag that it's an option, I suppose it's then on people who've received the letter to contact the electoral services team with any concerns. And then, yes, I think we're content that those conversations happened. We gathered information as part of the pilots on the nature of contact, I suppose, from potential electors when they did want to opt out. In terms of wider engagement, I suppose that's, potentially, going to be something for the Welsh Government to answer and to look at, in terms of the implementation. So, we'll be running our usual post-poll evaluation of the elections next year, and we intend for AVR to be a very significant portion of that reporting process. So, it's something we're planning on, essentially looking at how we evaluate the pilots and doing the same thing again on a national level, to try and get some data behind opt-out rates, reasons for opt-outs, and hopefully that can help inform some of these conversations and any changes that need to happen, moving forward. 16256 7 2026-09-17T09:31:35 769861 32 En 2026-09-17T09:52:18 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16256?startPos=1285&l=en http://www.senedd.tv/cy/16256?startPos=1285&l=cy 260917-2 2. Rheoliadau Cynrychiolaeth y Bobl (Cofrestru Etholiadol heb Geisiadau) (Diwygio Etholiadol) (Cymru) 2026: Sesiwn dystiolaeth 1 2. The Representation of the People (Electoral Registration without Applications) (Electoral Reform) (Wales) Regulations 2026: Evidence session 1 C 4787 4787 Peter Fox AS https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=4787 https://busnes.senedd.cymru/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=4787 Fox, Peter Thank you. Thank you, Chair. 16256 7 2026-09-17T09:31:35 769865 33 En 2026-09-17T09:52:20 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16256?startPos=1287&l=en http://www.senedd.tv/cy/16256?startPos=1287&l=cy 260917-2 2. Rheoliadau Cynrychiolaeth y Bobl (Cofrestru Etholiadol heb Geisiadau) (Diwygio Etholiadol) (Cymru) 2026: Sesiwn dystiolaeth 1 2. The Representation of the People (Electoral Registration without Applications) (Electoral Reform) (Wales) Regulations 2026: Evidence session 1 C 12152 12152 Carmelo Colasanto AS https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12152 https://busnes.senedd.cymru/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12152 Colasanto, Carmelo Marc, you've got a question. 16256 7 2026-09-17T09:31:35 769868 34 En 2026-09-17T09:52:22 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16256?startPos=1289&l=en http://www.senedd.tv/cy/16256?startPos=1289&l=cy 260917-2 2. Rheoliadau Cynrychiolaeth y Bobl (Cofrestru Etholiadol heb Geisiadau) (Diwygio Etholiadol) (Cymru) 2026: Sesiwn dystiolaeth 1 2. The Representation of the People (Electoral Registration without Applications) (Electoral Reform) (Wales) Regulations 2026: Evidence session 1 C 350 350 Marc Jones AS https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=350 https://busnes.senedd.cymru/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=350 Jones, Marc Yes, just a couple of points around the 28 days. In principle, I'm in favour of the 28 days, but I do have a couple of concerns. One is regarding the hard-copy letters. I'm dealing with issues around Royal Mail not delivering important letters, such as hospital appointments, already. I'm just wondering, if there are two- or three-week delays in sending out letters, as we're finding in that regard, is 28 days actually sufficient? And the follow-up from that then is, in safeguarding cases, domestic violence cases, where people do want that anonymity, if the 28 days have been exceeded, what flexibility is there then to ensure that people can take their names off after the 28 days? Because there'll be issues arising within the 28 days for some people—they'll be fleeing domestic violence or what have you. So, we have to have some guarantees of flexibility, I think. Otherwise, I'm concerned, if we have a very hard 28-day cut-off, that we will see people slipping through the net. So, I'm looking for reassurance, really, that those issues are on the radar and there is some flexibility. 16256 7 2026-09-17T09:31:35 769872 35 En 2026-09-17T09:53:48 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16256?startPos=1375&l=en http://www.senedd.tv/cy/16256?startPos=1375&l=cy 260917-2 2. Rheoliadau Cynrychiolaeth y Bobl (Cofrestru Etholiadol heb Geisiadau) (Diwygio Etholiadol) (Cymru) 2026: Sesiwn dystiolaeth 1 2. The Representation of the People (Electoral Registration without Applications) (Electoral Reform) (Wales) Regulations 2026: Evidence session 1 C 10636 Tom Davies Davies, Tom I think, in terms of the second point on flexibility, not to say there'd be flexibility in the number of days per se, but there are processes by which you could be removed from the register after that point. So, in that situation, that would be something that could happen. In terms of the Royal Mail concerns, I think it's a fair point. We might need to come back to the committee on that, if that's okay, or maybe it's a question you could pose to the Welsh Government, in terms of what some of those delays are looking like on the ground at the moment and how that would come up against a 28-day period—unless you had anything to add on that, Tom. 16256 7 2026-09-17T09:31:35 769878 36 En 2026-09-17T09:54:42 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16256?startPos=1429&l=en http://www.senedd.tv/cy/16256?startPos=1429&l=cy 260917-2 2. Rheoliadau Cynrychiolaeth y Bobl (Cofrestru Etholiadol heb Geisiadau) (Diwygio Etholiadol) (Cymru) 2026: Sesiwn dystiolaeth 1 2. The Representation of the People (Electoral Registration without Applications) (Electoral Reform) (Wales) Regulations 2026: Evidence session 1 C 12152 12152 Carmelo Colasanto AS https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12152 https://busnes.senedd.cymru/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12152 Colasanto, Carmelo No. 16256 7 2026-09-17T09:31:35 769880 37 En 2026-09-17T09:54:43 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16256?startPos=1430&l=en http://www.senedd.tv/cy/16256?startPos=1430&l=cy 260917-2 2. Rheoliadau Cynrychiolaeth y Bobl (Cofrestru Etholiadol heb Geisiadau) (Diwygio Etholiadol) (Cymru) 2026: Sesiwn dystiolaeth 1 2. The Representation of the People (Electoral Registration without Applications) (Electoral Reform) (Wales) Regulations 2026: Evidence session 1 C 12159 12159 David Hughes AS https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12159 https://busnes.senedd.cymru/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12159 Hughes, David Chair. 16256 7 2026-09-17T09:31:35 769883 38 En 2026-09-17T09:54:44 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16256?startPos=1431&l=en http://www.senedd.tv/cy/16256?startPos=1431&l=cy 260917-2 2. Rheoliadau Cynrychiolaeth y Bobl (Cofrestru Etholiadol heb Geisiadau) (Diwygio Etholiadol) (Cymru) 2026: Sesiwn dystiolaeth 1 2. The Representation of the People (Electoral Registration without Applications) (Electoral Reform) (Wales) Regulations 2026: Evidence session 1 C 12152 12152 Carmelo Colasanto AS https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12152 https://busnes.senedd.cymru/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12152 Colasanto, Carmelo David. 16256 7 2026-09-17T09:31:35 769885 39 En 2026-09-17T09:54:45 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16256?startPos=1432&l=en http://www.senedd.tv/cy/16256?startPos=1432&l=cy 260917-2 2. Rheoliadau Cynrychiolaeth y Bobl (Cofrestru Etholiadol heb Geisiadau) (Diwygio Etholiadol) (Cymru) 2026: Sesiwn dystiolaeth 1 2. The Representation of the People (Electoral Registration without Applications) (Electoral Reform) (Wales) Regulations 2026: Evidence session 1 C 12159 12159 David Hughes AS https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12159 https://busnes.senedd.cymru/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12159 Hughes, David I've got a concern with 28 days in regard to students. As you know, students move around quite a lot, especially on some courses where they've got to go out and go away to do their work, especially civil engineering, where they go out on site and they might be relocated to other parts of the country. So, I believe that 28 days is too short a period. I thought if it was 60 days, it would at least give them that opportunity to be back in their address to get that letter and fill it back in. That was one of the concerns I had. Because we are looking to get more students to vote, and if they're not being given the chance to fill in these forms in a timely manner, I believe that, sometimes, we will lose that chance of getting them to vote, whereas, as we know, a lot of students don't vote. 16256 7 2026-09-17T09:31:35 769800 40 En 2026-09-17T09:55:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16256?startPos=1447&l=en http://www.senedd.tv/cy/16256?startPos=1447&l=cy 260917-2 2. Rheoliadau Cynrychiolaeth y Bobl (Cofrestru Etholiadol heb Geisiadau) (Diwygio Etholiadol) (Cymru) 2026: Sesiwn dystiolaeth 1 2. The Representation of the People (Electoral Registration without Applications) (Electoral Reform) (Wales) Regulations 2026: Evidence session 1 C 16256 7 2026-09-17T09:31:35 769810 41 En 2026-09-17T09:55:54 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16256?startPos=1501&l=en http://www.senedd.tv/cy/16256?startPos=1501&l=cy 260917-2 2. Rheoliadau Cynrychiolaeth y Bobl (Cofrestru Etholiadol heb Geisiadau) (Diwygio Etholiadol) (Cymru) 2026: Sesiwn dystiolaeth 1 2. The Representation of the People (Electoral Registration without Applications) (Electoral Reform) (Wales) Regulations 2026: Evidence session 1 C 10636 Tom Davies Davies, Tom I think it's a balance, isn't it, and we've kind of reflected that in the evaluation and in our written evidence. It is that balance between a longer period of time and, then, some of the deliverability concerns. I suppose, in the scenario that you've laid out, you would hope that, for the vast majority of those individuals in that situation, obviously, they would come back and it isn't going to be an issue because they don't need to take action as part of this process. As long as they are, in fact, resident there and they're eligible to vote for devolved Welsh elections, which we know is the vast majority of people living in Wales, then it wouldn't be that they would need to fill out a form or anything like that. The concern comes in from those who would want to opt out and, crucially, those who would want to opt out for safety reasons and would want to have an anonymous registration instead. So, yes, it is a balance, absolutely. And I think we're comfortable with 28 days as the option that's been chosen, but it's a matter for the Senedd and the committee, ultimately, in terms of where that sits. The only thing I would say, I suppose, is, for a 2027 delivery—as Tom has said, and some of the challenging timescales there—it is, frankly, difficult to see how much further you could push up from 28 days without starting to impede on the ability of EROs to plan for the delivery of those polls, just in terms of the timescales we're looking at at the moment. 16256 7 2026-09-17T09:31:35 769821 42 En 2026-09-17T09:57:32 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16256?startPos=1599&l=en http://www.senedd.tv/cy/16256?startPos=1599&l=cy 260917-2 2. Rheoliadau Cynrychiolaeth y Bobl (Cofrestru Etholiadol heb Geisiadau) (Diwygio Etholiadol) (Cymru) 2026: Sesiwn dystiolaeth 1 2. The Representation of the People (Electoral Registration without Applications) (Electoral Reform) (Wales) Regulations 2026: Evidence session 1 C 12152 12152 Carmelo Colasanto AS https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12152 https://busnes.senedd.cymru/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12152 Colasanto, Carmelo Thank you. Mike, did you want to ask a question around frequency of registration? [Inaudible.] Sorry. Mike, bear with me a second. 16256 7 2026-09-17T09:31:35 769834 43 En 2026-09-17T09:57:41 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16256?startPos=1608&l=en http://www.senedd.tv/cy/16256?startPos=1608&l=cy 260917-2 2. Rheoliadau Cynrychiolaeth y Bobl (Cofrestru Etholiadol heb Geisiadau) (Diwygio Etholiadol) (Cymru) 2026: Sesiwn dystiolaeth 1 2. The Representation of the People (Electoral Registration without Applications) (Electoral Reform) (Wales) Regulations 2026: Evidence session 1 C 332 332 Mike Hedges AC https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=332 https://busnes.senedd.cymru/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=332 Hedges, Mike Yes. Thank you. I'm now unmuted. I certainly do. Can you expand on the rationale for reducing the required number of automatic voter registration exercises from four to one and the potential effect on areas with higher levels of mobility—i.e. areas like the ones I represent, with lots of houses in multiple occupation and lots of students, where you have substantial movement during the year? 16256 7 2026-09-17T09:31:35 769837 44 En 2026-09-17T09:58:10 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16256?startPos=1637&l=en http://www.senedd.tv/cy/16256?startPos=1637&l=cy 260917-2 2. Rheoliadau Cynrychiolaeth y Bobl (Cofrestru Etholiadol heb Geisiadau) (Diwygio Etholiadol) (Cymru) 2026: Sesiwn dystiolaeth 1 2. The Representation of the People (Electoral Registration without Applications) (Electoral Reform) (Wales) Regulations 2026: Evidence session 1 C 12009 Tom Hawthorn Hawthorn, Tom Thank you. I can take this question. I think one of the things that I think the Welsh Government have flagged in their correspondence with the committee and in their explanatory memorandum for the regulations is, firstly, about the benefit of reducing that minimum time period—sorry, the minimum frequency—for this first year of implementation, which is aimed, they've said—and we agree; this is important—at reducing some of the administrative challenges in this first year for EROs. I think it's also worth—. It's helpful to note that the regulations set the minimum floor, if you'd call it that, for activity, that all EROs will deliver each year. So, there could be more flexibility for EROs to carry out more than one data matching exercise in future years if they wanted to and if they felt that that was going to be important to deal with the particular circumstances. And there's a range of factors that we think they will be taking into account when they consider whether one exercise or more than one exercise is necessary and useful. So, that might include whether they've got scheduled elections in that year and what types of elections those are, whether they have got significant issues with some of those other electoral administration contact points and processes, such as the annual canvass, and, as the committee has already pointed out, whether there are particular local demographic circumstances where we've identified significant under-registered groups, including student populations, and then particularly thinking about the timing of when that activity would happen in relation to those under-registered groups. So, there is still flexibility within that year to, (a), change the time of when the exercise would take place and, (b), for electoral registration officers to decide it would be helpful in a particular year to carry out more than one exercise.  I think there's just a couple of other things to point out. One is that, in terms of the impact on accuracy and completeness of having one exercise rather than four, the automatic voter registration process is a complement not a replacement for the other registration processes that will continue. So, both the annual canvass that's happening at the moment will continue to happen, and also the ability for electors to register immediately before a particular set of polls, using the online registration portal. So, automatic voter registration is there to supplement that, rather than to replace those. And, I think, even looking at whether we're looking at one exercise or more than one exercise, even based on the findings from our evaluation, I think we'd flag that, even if there was only one exercise per year, it would still potentially be leading to an improvement in the completeness of the registers of somewhere between 2 per cent and 8 per cent, based on the experience from the pilot. So, that's still an important and helpful improvement on the accuracy, compared with where we are at the moment. 16256 7 2026-09-17T09:31:35 769808 45 En 2026-09-17T10:00:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16256?startPos=1747&l=en http://www.senedd.tv/cy/16256?startPos=1747&l=cy 260917-2 2. Rheoliadau Cynrychiolaeth y Bobl (Cofrestru Etholiadol heb Geisiadau) (Diwygio Etholiadol) (Cymru) 2026: Sesiwn dystiolaeth 1 2. The Representation of the People (Electoral Registration without Applications) (Electoral Reform) (Wales) Regulations 2026: Evidence session 1 C 16256 7 2026-09-17T09:31:35 769833 46 En 2026-09-17T10:01:21 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16256?startPos=1828&l=en http://www.senedd.tv/cy/16256?startPos=1828&l=cy 260917-2 2. Rheoliadau Cynrychiolaeth y Bobl (Cofrestru Etholiadol heb Geisiadau) (Diwygio Etholiadol) (Cymru) 2026: Sesiwn dystiolaeth 1 2. The Representation of the People (Electoral Registration without Applications) (Electoral Reform) (Wales) Regulations 2026: Evidence session 1 C 332 332 Mike Hedges AC https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=332 https://busnes.senedd.cymru/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=332 Hedges, Mike Going on from that, would they—the EROs, for example—be able to distinguish between different areas? You could do it more often in areas with high levels of houses in multiple occupation and with high levels of students, rather than in areas that are fairly set. I, like every politician, look at electoral registers regularly. In the ward I used to represent on the council, Parc Gwernfadog, a Wimpy estate, turnover was 5 per cent at most during the year. I now represent the Uplands and Brynmill area, where turnover can be up to 30 per cent, 40 per cent. 16256 7 2026-09-17T09:31:35 769846 47 En 2026-09-17T10:02:06 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16256?startPos=1873&l=en http://www.senedd.tv/cy/16256?startPos=1873&l=cy 260917-2 2. Rheoliadau Cynrychiolaeth y Bobl (Cofrestru Etholiadol heb Geisiadau) (Diwygio Etholiadol) (Cymru) 2026: Sesiwn dystiolaeth 1 2. The Representation of the People (Electoral Registration without Applications) (Electoral Reform) (Wales) Regulations 2026: Evidence session 1 C 12009 Tom Hawthorn Hawthorn, Tom I think the critical thing for EROs here will be considering very carefully which local data sets are going to be most useful to identify the particular challenges that you've already highlighted. So, is this an area with lots of students? Is this an area with a larger proportion of HMOs? Or, do we know that there is a higher turnover of population within a particular area? So, that might suggest, for example, that we need to look at the education data, we need to look at the university data, or we need to look at the housing department authority data, to give us the best type of data, and then to think about when best to use that. I think the minimum requirement is for the registration officers to carry out that one match activity across the whole authority area each year. So, there may be flexibility for them to do more than that. I think the key thing would be for that exercise to be underpinned by an analysis of which areas are likely to need more attention. And then, as we said, pinning that to particular data sources that are going to be more effective at identifying new voters. 16256 7 2026-09-17T09:31:35 769850 48 En 2026-09-17T10:03:23 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16256?startPos=1950&l=en http://www.senedd.tv/cy/16256?startPos=1950&l=cy 260917-2 2. Rheoliadau Cynrychiolaeth y Bobl (Cofrestru Etholiadol heb Geisiadau) (Diwygio Etholiadol) (Cymru) 2026: Sesiwn dystiolaeth 1 2. The Representation of the People (Electoral Registration without Applications) (Electoral Reform) (Wales) Regulations 2026: Evidence session 1 C 12152 12152 Carmelo Colasanto AS https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12152 https://busnes.senedd.cymru/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12152 Colasanto, Carmelo Thank you. Elyn, can we go back to your question? 16256 7 2026-09-17T09:31:35 769854 49 En 2026-09-17T10:03:27 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16256?startPos=1954&l=en http://www.senedd.tv/cy/16256?startPos=1954&l=cy 260917-2 2. Rheoliadau Cynrychiolaeth y Bobl (Cofrestru Etholiadol heb Geisiadau) (Diwygio Etholiadol) (Cymru) 2026: Sesiwn dystiolaeth 1 2. The Representation of the People (Electoral Registration without Applications) (Electoral Reform) (Wales) Regulations 2026: Evidence session 1 C 12164 12164 Elyn Stephens AS https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12164 https://busnes.senedd.cymru/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12164 Stephens, Elyn Yes. Diolch, Gadeirydd. I wanted to go back to part of Peter's question and ask about those harder to reach groups of people or communities, specifically those who are transient. I know we've discussed students, but I'm less concerned there, because, more broadly speaking, students will have a place of home and a place of study. I wanted to ask specifically about people who are homeless and people who are part of the Roma, Gypsy and Traveller communities, where there may be more movement than you typically find with students. Are you satisfied that enough outreach has happened to those types of communities who are more transient than students? 16256 7 2026-09-17T09:31:35 769857 50 En 2026-09-17T10:04:15 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16256?startPos=2002&l=en http://www.senedd.tv/cy/16256?startPos=2002&l=cy 260917-2 2. Rheoliadau Cynrychiolaeth y Bobl (Cofrestru Etholiadol heb Geisiadau) (Diwygio Etholiadol) (Cymru) 2026: Sesiwn dystiolaeth 1 2. The Representation of the People (Electoral Registration without Applications) (Electoral Reform) (Wales) Regulations 2026: Evidence session 1 C 12009 Tom Hawthorn Hawthorn, Tom So, I think the first thing—. I might pass on to Tom in a second, to talk a little bit about some of the work that we do with partner organisations to share information and get information out to particular groups. The first thing to say would be that, obviously, local authorities and EROs, working with their partners in those authority areas, are going to be best placed to know and understand exactly where those harder to reach groups are likely to be. What we can do is provide them with some more support, some resources, some expertise, and the best ways to communicate information with those groups. We'll be doing that, I think, ahead of the local elections next year. We've done some of that work ahead of the Senedd elections earlier this year, and we can provide that information so that local authority EROs can help deliver those messages most effectively. Tom, I don't know if you wanted to say anything about the groups that we do work with already. 16256 7 2026-09-17T09:31:35 769815 51 En 2026-09-17T10:05:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16256?startPos=2047&l=en http://www.senedd.tv/cy/16256?startPos=2047&l=cy 260917-2 2. Rheoliadau Cynrychiolaeth y Bobl (Cofrestru Etholiadol heb Geisiadau) (Diwygio Etholiadol) (Cymru) 2026: Sesiwn dystiolaeth 1 2. The Representation of the People (Electoral Registration without Applications) (Electoral Reform) (Wales) Regulations 2026: Evidence session 1 C 16256 7 2026-09-17T09:31:35 769876 52 En 2026-09-17T10:09:37 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16256?startPos=2324&l=en http://www.senedd.tv/cy/16256?startPos=2324&l=cy 260917-2 2. Rheoliadau Cynrychiolaeth y Bobl (Cofrestru Etholiadol heb Geisiadau) (Diwygio Etholiadol) (Cymru) 2026: Sesiwn dystiolaeth 1 2. The Representation of the People (Electoral Registration without Applications) (Electoral Reform) (Wales) Regulations 2026: Evidence session 1 C 16256 7 2026-09-17T09:31:35 769879 53 En 2026-09-17T10:09:38 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16256?startPos=2325&l=en http://www.senedd.tv/cy/16256?startPos=2325&l=cy 260917-2 2. Rheoliadau Cynrychiolaeth y Bobl (Cofrestru Etholiadol heb Geisiadau) (Diwygio Etholiadol) (Cymru) 2026: Sesiwn dystiolaeth 1 2. The Representation of the People (Electoral Registration without Applications) (Electoral Reform) (Wales) Regulations 2026: Evidence session 1 C 16256 7 2026-09-17T09:31:35 769823 54 En 2026-09-17T10:05:18 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16256?startPos=2065&l=en http://www.senedd.tv/cy/16256?startPos=2065&l=cy 260917-2 2. Rheoliadau Cynrychiolaeth y Bobl (Cofrestru Etholiadol heb Geisiadau) (Diwygio Etholiadol) (Cymru) 2026: Sesiwn dystiolaeth 1 2. The Representation of the People (Electoral Registration without Applications) (Electoral Reform) (Wales) Regulations 2026: Evidence session 1 C 10636 Tom Davies Davies, Tom Yes. Just to say that we're always increasing our partnership working with relevant organisations in Wales. There's not necessarily a distinction between the work we would be doing specifically with them on automatic voter registration versus registration and participation in democracy and elections more generally. So, for example, ahead of the Senedd elections, we worked with Shelter Cymru on an action research project. That was around some provision of training to their staff around talking with service users around the Senedd elections, registration as well, the registration options that are available to people. So, yes, we're always looking to do more with partner organisations. Maybe we can come back in writing on some of our more detailed plans on partnership working ahead of the 2027 local elections. 16256 7 2026-09-17T09:31:35 769841 55 En 2026-09-17T10:06:12 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16256?startPos=2119&l=en http://www.senedd.tv/cy/16256?startPos=2119&l=cy 260917-2 2. Rheoliadau Cynrychiolaeth y Bobl (Cofrestru Etholiadol heb Geisiadau) (Diwygio Etholiadol) (Cymru) 2026: Sesiwn dystiolaeth 1 2. The Representation of the People (Electoral Registration without Applications) (Electoral Reform) (Wales) Regulations 2026: Evidence session 1 C 12164 12164 Elyn Stephens AS https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12164 https://busnes.senedd.cymru/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12164 Stephens, Elyn That would be great. Diolch. 16256 7 2026-09-17T09:31:35 769844 56 En 2026-09-17T10:06:14 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16256?startPos=2121&l=en http://www.senedd.tv/cy/16256?startPos=2121&l=cy 260917-2 2. Rheoliadau Cynrychiolaeth y Bobl (Cofrestru Etholiadol heb Geisiadau) (Diwygio Etholiadol) (Cymru) 2026: Sesiwn dystiolaeth 1 2. The Representation of the People (Electoral Registration without Applications) (Electoral Reform) (Wales) Regulations 2026: Evidence session 1 C 12152 12152 Carmelo Colasanto AS https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12152 https://busnes.senedd.cymru/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12152 Colasanto, Carmelo Thank you. Elyn, you've actually got the next question: availability and quality of data. 16256 7 2026-09-17T09:31:35 769845 57 En 2026-09-17T10:06:21 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16256?startPos=2128&l=en http://www.senedd.tv/cy/16256?startPos=2128&l=cy 260917-2 2. Rheoliadau Cynrychiolaeth y Bobl (Cofrestru Etholiadol heb Geisiadau) (Diwygio Etholiadol) (Cymru) 2026: Sesiwn dystiolaeth 1 2. The Representation of the People (Electoral Registration without Applications) (Electoral Reform) (Wales) Regulations 2026: Evidence session 1 C 12164 12164 Elyn Stephens AS https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12164 https://busnes.senedd.cymru/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12164 Stephens, Elyn Thank you. So, I wanted to start on the eight weeks that the guidance advises local authorities to allow a minimum of. To what extent do you think that eight-week period is adequate in terms of the work required to cleanse and standardise and prepare those data sets? Do you expect that process to become quicker in subsequent years as a result of the work happening in the first round of automatic voter registration? And in addition to that, do you think that we can retain the benefits of that first cleanse going forward, so that the work should become less as we progress? 16256 7 2026-09-17T09:31:35 769849 58 En 2026-09-17T10:07:07 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16256?startPos=2174&l=en http://www.senedd.tv/cy/16256?startPos=2174&l=cy 260917-2 2. Rheoliadau Cynrychiolaeth y Bobl (Cofrestru Etholiadol heb Geisiadau) (Diwygio Etholiadol) (Cymru) 2026: Sesiwn dystiolaeth 1 2. The Representation of the People (Electoral Registration without Applications) (Electoral Reform) (Wales) Regulations 2026: Evidence session 1 C 12009 Tom Hawthorn Hawthorn, Tom Yes, I think it's fair to say that the experience from the pilots in particular last year shows that the data matching processes that were used were effective; they worked. So, they supported the process and they did result, ultimately, in voters being added to the register. But it's also really important to recognise that, as our evaluation pointed out, this was time consuming and quite labour intensive for registration officers in the pilot areas. So, yes, there is definitely learning and improvements that could be made. Part of that is about ensuring that the specification for the electoral management software systems is really clear and it meets the needs of registration officers. That specification is being finalised now; it hasn't yet been confirmed and released, so there is still a little bit of uncertainty about what that process will involve. I think, again, it's fair to say that, if it had been clear earlier in the development process for this year, then that would have relieved some of the concerns that electoral services teams probably are feeling about the process at the moment. The other thing that Welsh Government are very helpfully doing at the moment is providing EROs with data impact assessments and template data sharing agreements that they can use to help get in data from the local data holding departments. That should also be really helpful in getting some consistency. Registration officers already do have some experience of running data matching exercises every year. They're running a national data match exercise using UK Government data ahead of the canvas, and they're also able to supplement that with local data matching as well. So, they do have experience of these processes in general terms; what they don't have necessarily is the experience of exactly what this system will provide and will require. So, yes, I think this year, the first year, is going to be more challenging and, in future years, there will be opportunities to refine and improve that process, absolutely. 16256 7 2026-09-17T09:31:35 769858 59 En 2026-09-17T10:09:30 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16256?startPos=2317&l=en http://www.senedd.tv/cy/16256?startPos=2317&l=cy 260917-2 2. Rheoliadau Cynrychiolaeth y Bobl (Cofrestru Etholiadol heb Geisiadau) (Diwygio Etholiadol) (Cymru) 2026: Sesiwn dystiolaeth 1 2. The Representation of the People (Electoral Registration without Applications) (Electoral Reform) (Wales) Regulations 2026: Evidence session 1 C 12152 12152 Carmelo Colasanto AS https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12152 https://busnes.senedd.cymru/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12152 Colasanto, Carmelo Thank you, Tom. Rebeca, you've got a question on timings. 16256 7 2026-09-17T09:31:35 769867 60 En 2026-09-17T10:09:34 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16256?startPos=2321&l=en http://www.senedd.tv/cy/16256?startPos=2321&l=cy 260917-2 2. Rheoliadau Cynrychiolaeth y Bobl (Cofrestru Etholiadol heb Geisiadau) (Diwygio Etholiadol) (Cymru) 2026: Sesiwn dystiolaeth 1 2. The Representation of the People (Electoral Registration without Applications) (Electoral Reform) (Wales) Regulations 2026: Evidence session 1 C 12164 12164 Elyn Stephens AS https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12164 https://busnes.senedd.cymru/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12164 Stephens, Elyn Sorry, Chair, I have more questions on data. 16256 7 2026-09-17T09:31:35 769874 61 En 2026-09-17T10:09:36 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16256?startPos=2323&l=en http://www.senedd.tv/cy/16256?startPos=2323&l=cy 260917-2 2. Rheoliadau Cynrychiolaeth y Bobl (Cofrestru Etholiadol heb Geisiadau) (Diwygio Etholiadol) (Cymru) 2026: Sesiwn dystiolaeth 1 2. The Representation of the People (Electoral Registration without Applications) (Electoral Reform) (Wales) Regulations 2026: Evidence session 1 C 12152 12152 Carmelo Colasanto AS https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12152 https://busnes.senedd.cymru/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12152 Colasanto, Carmelo Oh, I beg your pardon, my fault. Apologies, Rebeca. 16256 7 2026-09-17T09:31:35 769881 62 En 2026-09-17T10:09:40 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16256?startPos=2327&l=en http://www.senedd.tv/cy/16256?startPos=2327&l=cy 260917-2 2. Rheoliadau Cynrychiolaeth y Bobl (Cofrestru Etholiadol heb Geisiadau) (Diwygio Etholiadol) (Cymru) 2026: Sesiwn dystiolaeth 1 2. The Representation of the People (Electoral Registration without Applications) (Electoral Reform) (Wales) Regulations 2026: Evidence session 1 C 12164 12164 Elyn Stephens AS https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12164 https://busnes.senedd.cymru/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12164 Stephens, Elyn So, you mentioned about the data sets. What type of secondary data sets are being used, to be used alongside the council tax data? And would there be a recommended core set of data sets or would that be determined by each local authority independently? 16256 7 2026-09-17T09:31:35 769803 63 En 2026-09-17T10:10:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16256?startPos=2347&l=en http://www.senedd.tv/cy/16256?startPos=2347&l=cy 260917-2 2. Rheoliadau Cynrychiolaeth y Bobl (Cofrestru Etholiadol heb Geisiadau) (Diwygio Etholiadol) (Cymru) 2026: Sesiwn dystiolaeth 1 2. The Representation of the People (Electoral Registration without Applications) (Electoral Reform) (Wales) Regulations 2026: Evidence session 1 C 16256 7 2026-09-17T09:31:35 769882 64 En 2026-09-17T10:10:03 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16256?startPos=2350&l=en http://www.senedd.tv/cy/16256?startPos=2350&l=cy 260917-2 2. Rheoliadau Cynrychiolaeth y Bobl (Cofrestru Etholiadol heb Geisiadau) (Diwygio Etholiadol) (Cymru) 2026: Sesiwn dystiolaeth 1 2. The Representation of the People (Electoral Registration without Applications) (Electoral Reform) (Wales) Regulations 2026: Evidence session 1 C 12009 Tom Hawthorn Hawthorn, Tom Yes, so that's going to be determined by each registration officer independently, based on their own assessment of the availability of the data and whether it is suitable for the matching purpose that they need to use. As you mentioned, council tax is absolutely the largest data set that's available to all registration officers, and it's also the data set that, from the pilot schemes, identified the largest number of potential electors. But then there will be a number of different data sets, and we know that in the pilots lots of the authorities used education data, as that's the data set that will allow the simplest additions to the register using only one data source. And it also helps because we know that younger voters are the ones who are least likely to be registered. So, it's going to be down to each individual registration officer to make that assessment. They'll need to make sure they have a really clear view about how the data was compiled, what sorts of verification processes were in place when that data was being compiled, what coverage it's likely to have, whether it's universal or it's targeting particular groups, how frequently that data is being updated, so is it older data or has it been refreshed relatively recently? Those are all considerations that they're going to need to take into account. We've flagged guidance about this. We've been able to publish guidance for registration officers this week, which is based on the regulations as they've been tabled. So, it's guidance about what they might do once the regulations come into force. And that sets out some of the questions that registration officers will need to be asking themselves to help satisfy themselves that they're getting hold of the right data. I think just one other concern that we know registration officers have been flagging is whether they can actually secure access to data, or even where it's held within their local authority. Some of them have reported maybe some challenges in getting access to that data, and it does take time sometimes to achieve that. So, it might be that, again, for this first year, there are data sources that haven't been made available in time for the matching process. But in future years, with more time available, that might be more possible. 16256 7 2026-09-17T09:31:35 769892 65 En 2026-09-17T10:12:32 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16256?startPos=2499&l=en http://www.senedd.tv/cy/16256?startPos=2499&l=cy 260917-2 2. Rheoliadau Cynrychiolaeth y Bobl (Cofrestru Etholiadol heb Geisiadau) (Diwygio Etholiadol) (Cymru) 2026: Sesiwn dystiolaeth 1 2. The Representation of the People (Electoral Registration without Applications) (Electoral Reform) (Wales) Regulations 2026: Evidence session 1 C 12164 12164 Elyn Stephens AS https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12164 https://busnes.senedd.cymru/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12164 Stephens, Elyn And in terms of data sharing, I think there's been some precedent set for data sharing between the Department for Work and Pensions for other things involving Welsh Government. Has any consideration been given to outside sources of data, especially those that would cover some of the most vulnerable people? So, that's the first question—whether they've been approached on that. Secondly, does having more data available help or hinder the process of the data cleansing? 16256 7 2026-09-17T09:31:35 769894 66 En 2026-09-17T10:13:09 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16256?startPos=2536&l=en http://www.senedd.tv/cy/16256?startPos=2536&l=cy 260917-2 2. Rheoliadau Cynrychiolaeth y Bobl (Cofrestru Etholiadol heb Geisiadau) (Diwygio Etholiadol) (Cymru) 2026: Sesiwn dystiolaeth 1 2. The Representation of the People (Electoral Registration without Applications) (Electoral Reform) (Wales) Regulations 2026: Evidence session 1 C 12009 Tom Hawthorn Hawthorn, Tom Tom might be able to say a little bit more about this as well. But I think, at the moment, the data matching powers and processes for Welsh registers is limited to data that's available locally to Welsh electoral registration officers. So, they won't necessarily have availability of data at this stage of things like DWP data. I think in response to your second question about whether more is better in this case, partly that will depend on the quality of the data as well. So, how well formatted is the data? Does it have things like unique property reference numbers? How are the names and addresses formatted, so that it's simple, or as simple as possible, to match them to the electoral register? It may be, for example, the case that a registration officer could identify a data source that looks helpful in theory, but actually the way the data is formatted means that it would be disproportionately complicated to make that match with the electoral register to be able to identify entries that could be followed up. I don't know, Tom, if you wanted to add anything on either of those points about data sources. 16256 7 2026-09-17T09:31:35 769898 67 En 2026-09-17T10:14:26 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16256?startPos=2613&l=en http://www.senedd.tv/cy/16256?startPos=2613&l=cy 260917-2 2. Rheoliadau Cynrychiolaeth y Bobl (Cofrestru Etholiadol heb Geisiadau) (Diwygio Etholiadol) (Cymru) 2026: Sesiwn dystiolaeth 1 2. The Representation of the People (Electoral Registration without Applications) (Electoral Reform) (Wales) Regulations 2026: Evidence session 1 C 10636 Tom Davies Davies, Tom All I'd add, just on the UK data sources perspective, is that that highlights some of our considerations around a potential future UK system of automatic or direct voter registration, and some of the potential benefits if Governments can engage with each other on that and find some way of aligning, if possible. I think the assumption throughout is that a lot of UK national data sets will potentially be more accurate, more reliable than some of the local data sets we're working with. So, it's a positive step in the right direction in terms of what is able to be done in Wales for AVR. But because there are those limits to locally held data, there are, I suppose, future improvements that would require some level of UK Government involvement as well, if we're thinking in the medium to longer term about automatic registration in Wales and across Great Britain.  16256 7 2026-09-17T09:31:35 769919 68 En 2026-09-17T10:15:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16256?startPos=2647&l=en http://www.senedd.tv/cy/16256?startPos=2647&l=cy 260917-2 2. Rheoliadau Cynrychiolaeth y Bobl (Cofrestru Etholiadol heb Geisiadau) (Diwygio Etholiadol) (Cymru) 2026: Sesiwn dystiolaeth 1 2. The Representation of the People (Electoral Registration without Applications) (Electoral Reform) (Wales) Regulations 2026: Evidence session 1 C 16256 7 2026-09-17T09:31:35 769922 69 En 2026-09-17T10:15:30 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16256?startPos=2677&l=en http://www.senedd.tv/cy/16256?startPos=2677&l=cy 260917-2 2. Rheoliadau Cynrychiolaeth y Bobl (Cofrestru Etholiadol heb Geisiadau) (Diwygio Etholiadol) (Cymru) 2026: Sesiwn dystiolaeth 1 2. The Representation of the People (Electoral Registration without Applications) (Electoral Reform) (Wales) Regulations 2026: Evidence session 1 C 12152 12152 Carmelo Colasanto AS https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12152 https://busnes.senedd.cymru/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12152 Colasanto, Carmelo Thank you. I'm just mindful, Tom, that we're running out of time here, because we've got another set of witnesses. So, Rebeca, apologies for not letting you get the question in. Do you want to ask it now? 16256 7 2026-09-17T09:31:35 769925 70 En 2026-09-17T10:15:41 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16256?startPos=2688&l=en http://www.senedd.tv/cy/16256?startPos=2688&l=cy 260917-2 2. Rheoliadau Cynrychiolaeth y Bobl (Cofrestru Etholiadol heb Geisiadau) (Diwygio Etholiadol) (Cymru) 2026: Sesiwn dystiolaeth 1 2. The Representation of the People (Electoral Registration without Applications) (Electoral Reform) (Wales) Regulations 2026: Evidence session 1 C 12172 12172 Rebeca Phillips AS https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12172 https://busnes.senedd.cymru/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12172 Phillips, Rebaca Yes, great. We've touched on it a little bit. Obviously, local authorities are already stretched with the preparations for the 2027 elections. How confident are you that there's sufficient time and capacity for the roll-out of this? And also, what lessons have been learned and can be shared from the pilot areas?  16256 7 2026-09-17T09:31:35 769927 71 En 2026-09-17T10:16:08 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16256?startPos=2715&l=en http://www.senedd.tv/cy/16256?startPos=2715&l=cy 260917-2 2. Rheoliadau Cynrychiolaeth y Bobl (Cofrestru Etholiadol heb Geisiadau) (Diwygio Etholiadol) (Cymru) 2026: Sesiwn dystiolaeth 1 2. The Representation of the People (Electoral Registration without Applications) (Electoral Reform) (Wales) Regulations 2026: Evidence session 1 C 12009 Tom Hawthorn Hawthorn, Tom I would say that overall we do think it's still possible to roll out automatic registration in time for next year's local government elections. But I think we would say that it is at the point now where if the timescales slip any further, it's going to become increasingly challenging to deliver those. I think, speaking frankly, the legislation and the associated implementation activities are being delivered at a later stage than we would ideally expect. We would normally look to see legislation clear at least six months before registration officers have to deliver new processes. Obviously, this hasn't been met on this occasion. It will put additional pressure on those electoral services teams. The critical factor here is the timing of when the regulations will come into effect, because there are activities that registration officers can do, and they are doing, to prepare, but they won't be able to actually press 'go' and start that activity until the regulations are passed and in place. We've provided some guidance, as I said, at risk based on the draft regulations, but they can't take action until those regulations are in place. On your second question, yes, I think the pilots have been very helpful, our evaluation, but I think probably more importantly the direct experience of some of the local authorities who are involved in the pilots has been really critical in shaping and helping other local authorities understand what it would mean in practice to deliver the new system. 16256 7 2026-09-17T09:31:35 769929 72 En 2026-09-17T10:17:50 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16256?startPos=2817&l=en http://www.senedd.tv/cy/16256?startPos=2817&l=cy 260917-2 2. Rheoliadau Cynrychiolaeth y Bobl (Cofrestru Etholiadol heb Geisiadau) (Diwygio Etholiadol) (Cymru) 2026: Sesiwn dystiolaeth 1 2. The Representation of the People (Electoral Registration without Applications) (Electoral Reform) (Wales) Regulations 2026: Evidence session 1 C 12172 12172 Rebeca Phillips AS https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12172 https://busnes.senedd.cymru/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12172 Phillips, Rebaca Thank you. 16256 7 2026-09-17T09:31:35 769933 73 En 2026-09-17T10:17:52 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16256?startPos=2819&l=en http://www.senedd.tv/cy/16256?startPos=2819&l=cy 260917-2 2. Rheoliadau Cynrychiolaeth y Bobl (Cofrestru Etholiadol heb Geisiadau) (Diwygio Etholiadol) (Cymru) 2026: Sesiwn dystiolaeth 1 2. The Representation of the People (Electoral Registration without Applications) (Electoral Reform) (Wales) Regulations 2026: Evidence session 1 C 12152 12152 Carmelo Colasanto AS https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12152 https://busnes.senedd.cymru/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12152 Colasanto, Carmelo Thank you. I've got some other questions, but I'm going to write to you, if that's okay, with the questions on future evaluation of AVR. Obviously, I'll share the questions with the committee members, and the subsequent response. But right now, I'd just like to thank you for giving evidence and providing us with a bit more clarity around the process. We will send you the minutes, if you like, of the meeting this morning, just to ensure that we've captured the accuracy of what we've been discussing. But, again, many thanks from the committee. 16256 7 2026-09-17T09:31:35 769934 74 En 2026-09-17T10:18:27 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16256?startPos=2854&l=en http://www.senedd.tv/cy/16256?startPos=2854&l=cy 260917-2 2. Rheoliadau Cynrychiolaeth y Bobl (Cofrestru Etholiadol heb Geisiadau) (Diwygio Etholiadol) (Cymru) 2026: Sesiwn dystiolaeth 1 2. The Representation of the People (Electoral Registration without Applications) (Electoral Reform) (Wales) Regulations 2026: Evidence session 1 C 10636 Tom Davies Davies, Tom Diolch, Chair. 16256 7 2026-09-17T09:31:35 769935 75 En 2026-09-17T10:18:28 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16256?startPos=2855&l=en http://www.senedd.tv/cy/16256?startPos=2855&l=cy 260917-2 2. Rheoliadau Cynrychiolaeth y Bobl (Cofrestru Etholiadol heb Geisiadau) (Diwygio Etholiadol) (Cymru) 2026: Sesiwn dystiolaeth 1 2. The Representation of the People (Electoral Registration without Applications) (Electoral Reform) (Wales) Regulations 2026: Evidence session 1 C 12009 Tom Hawthorn Hawthorn, Tom Thank you very much. 16256 7 2026-09-17T09:31:35 769937 76 En 2026-09-17T10:18:30 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16256?startPos=2857&l=en http://www.senedd.tv/cy/16256?startPos=2857&l=cy 260917-2 2. Rheoliadau Cynrychiolaeth y Bobl (Cofrestru Etholiadol heb Geisiadau) (Diwygio Etholiadol) (Cymru) 2026: Sesiwn dystiolaeth 1 2. The Representation of the People (Electoral Registration without Applications) (Electoral Reform) (Wales) Regulations 2026: Evidence session 1 C 12152 12152 Carmelo Colasanto AS https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12152 https://busnes.senedd.cymru/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12152 Colasanto, Carmelo Thank you. We'll take a break now, because we have to change over for another panel of witnesses. 16256 7 2026-09-17T09:31:35 769939 77 Cy 260917-2 2. Rheoliadau Cynrychiolaeth y Bobl (Cofrestru Etholiadol heb Geisiadau) (Diwygio Etholiadol) (Cymru) 2026: Sesiwn dystiolaeth 1 2. The Representation of the People (Electoral Registration without Applications) (Electoral Reform) (Wales) Regulations 2026: Evidence session 1 I Gohiriwyd y cyfarfod rhwng 10:18 a 10:31. The meeting adjourned between 10:18 and 10:31. 16256 7 2026-09-17T09:31:35 769895 78 Cy 2026-09-17T00:00:00 http://www.senedd.tv/cy/16256?startPos=-34253&l=cy http://www.senedd.tv/en/16256?startPos=-34253&l=en 260917-2 2. Rheoliadau Cynrychiolaeth y Bobl (Cofrestru Etholiadol heb Geisiadau) (Diwygio Etholiadol) (Cymru) 2026: Sesiwn dystiolaeth 1 2. The Representation of the People (Electoral Registration without Applications) (Electoral Reform) (Wales) Regulations 2026: Evidence session 1 C 16256 7 2026-09-17T09:31:35 769897 79 En 2026-09-17T10:31:17 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16256?startPos=3624&l=en http://www.senedd.tv/cy/16256?startPos=3624&l=cy 260917-3 3. Rheoliadau Cynrychiolaeth y Bobl (Cofrestru Etholiadol heb Geisiadau) (Diwygio Etholiadol) (Cymru) 2026: Sesiwn dystiolaeth 2 3. The Representation of the People (Electoral Registration without Applications) (Electoral Reform) (Wales) Regulations 2026: Evidence session 2 C 12152 12152 Carmelo Colasanto AS https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12152 https://busnes.senedd.cymru/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12152 Colasanto, Carmelo Good morning. We're back in public. Item 3 is the second evidence session to inform the committee's scrutiny of the regulations. We're now going to hear from representatives from the Association of Electoral Administrators, the electoral management board and Powys County Council. Members have had some papers, 5, 6 and 7. We've got here Ian Bancroft, Mark Pascoe, Clare Sim and Sandra Matthews. Welcome. Have we got some papers to note? 16256 7 2026-09-17T09:31:35 769908 80 En 2026-09-17T10:32:10 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16256?startPos=3677&l=en http://www.senedd.tv/cy/16256?startPos=3677&l=cy 260917-3 3. Rheoliadau Cynrychiolaeth y Bobl (Cofrestru Etholiadol heb Geisiadau) (Diwygio Etholiadol) (Cymru) 2026: Sesiwn dystiolaeth 2 3. The Representation of the People (Electoral Registration without Applications) (Electoral Reform) (Wales) Regulations 2026: Evidence session 2 C 120 Catherine Hunt Hunt, Catherine Not yet, no. 16256 7 2026-09-17T09:31:35 769909 81 En 2026-09-17T10:32:11 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16256?startPos=3678&l=en http://www.senedd.tv/cy/16256?startPos=3678&l=cy 260917-3 3. Rheoliadau Cynrychiolaeth y Bobl (Cofrestru Etholiadol heb Geisiadau) (Diwygio Etholiadol) (Cymru) 2026: Sesiwn dystiolaeth 2 3. The Representation of the People (Electoral Registration without Applications) (Electoral Reform) (Wales) Regulations 2026: Evidence session 2 C 12152 12152 Carmelo Colasanto AS https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12152 https://busnes.senedd.cymru/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12152 Colasanto, Carmelo Not yet. So we'll just go straight to the questions. We're going to go back over the same subject areas again. Peter, would you like to cover off your questions? 16256 7 2026-09-17T09:31:35 769910 82 En 2026-09-17T10:32:18 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16256?startPos=3685&l=en http://www.senedd.tv/cy/16256?startPos=3685&l=cy 260917-3 3. Rheoliadau Cynrychiolaeth y Bobl (Cofrestru Etholiadol heb Geisiadau) (Diwygio Etholiadol) (Cymru) 2026: Sesiwn dystiolaeth 2 3. The Representation of the People (Electoral Registration without Applications) (Electoral Reform) (Wales) Regulations 2026: Evidence session 2 C 4787 4787 Peter Fox AS https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=4787 https://busnes.senedd.cymru/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=4787 Fox, Peter Yes. Good morning, all. Thanks ever so much for joining us today. We're undertaking this important bit of evidence around elections. I want to look first at evaluation of the pilots. We'd like to understand what the challenges were in delivering for you. How was it? What's your view of what the pilots were telling you? There are going to be lots of connected questions, especially as we're moving a lot closer to the next elections. Can you give us a flavour of what you found and what the challenges might be? Or was it good? You may not all want to answer the same question, I accept that. 16256 7 2026-09-17T09:31:35 769913 83 En 2026-09-17T10:33:20 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16256?startPos=3747&l=en http://www.senedd.tv/cy/16256?startPos=3747&l=cy 260917-3 3. Rheoliadau Cynrychiolaeth y Bobl (Cofrestru Etholiadol heb Geisiadau) (Diwygio Etholiadol) (Cymru) 2026: Sesiwn dystiolaeth 2 3. The Representation of the People (Electoral Registration without Applications) (Electoral Reform) (Wales) Regulations 2026: Evidence session 2 C 12463 Sandra Matthews Matthews, Sandra Everyone's looking at me, so I guess I'm going to begin. As a pilot authority, ours is quite a lived experience. They were successful in Powys. It was possible to use local data sets to identify individuals that weren't registered and send them a notice of registration. Again, those notices of registration were generally quite well received. We had a very low number of opt-outs. Obviously, where people did feel strongly and did not wish to be automatically registered, they felt very strongly, as I'm sure you've all experienced on the doorstep sometimes. Overall, as a process, it was successful. We found just over 5,000 individuals, which worked out at approximately 5 per cent of our register. I think there was overall confidence that the people we found were accurate. They had a link to the property. Having the assurance of finding an individual on two or three or even four data sets gave us that assurance that there was quality and accuracy in that result. I'm sure, from the elector's perspective, it felt very automatic and very seamless. From the administrator's experience in the back office, it was probably anything but. There was a lot of manual intervention and work, which I think the Electoral Commission report does highlight. Data matching relies on good-quality and standardised data, none of which is what we have in local authorities. A lot of the data sets have been created for other purposes. They're maintained not because that person is resident at the property, but maybe for another reason, et cetera. So, it is difficult to evaluate certain data sets and their usefulness until we actually receive them. In fact, there were two or three data sets that we received that didn't have addresses on, or the quality and completeness of their addresses weren't good enough for us to even use. So, it was balancing that expectation of what we requested and what we thought we were going to get with what actually arrived.  Data cleansing the data sets that were of use was quite time consuming, stripping out the incomplete records, ensuring that they were all of a standard good enough to take forward. And even within those data sets, obviously you have inconsistencies that an individual might use with regard to their name or even an address, and I'll give an example of that. On one data set, somebody might be known as David John Edwards. That individual might also be known as Dai John Edwards. On another data set, it might be D.J. Edwards, or just good old Dave. Trying to match all of those up and make the assumption that that's one and the same can be quite difficult. And it's obviously not 100 per cent then unless you've got some other information such as a date of birth to link them. To add to that complexity, then we add children into the mix. Something I always say is that parents can sometimes lack imagination when they name their children and we might have another D.J. Edwards at the property. If we're lucky, it might be a David Jasper, for example—same initial, but at least there's a distinction of a middle name. If we're very unlucky, the worst-case scenario is we have a David John Jr. Again, there are quite a few data sets that don't have 'Sr.' or 'Jr.' So unless we have a date of birth to identify the difference—. All I can say is opening the post in those addresses must be quite fun. And this happens more often than we realise. Those sorts of issues meant that there was a lot of manual checking and, even after the data match exercise, human eye-balling the records that came out before we then actually wrote out. And it's not just elector information; property addresses come in all sorts of incarnations. There is a standard for an address. There's a unique property reference number, which some of you may be aware of. It's called a UPRN. However, again, in Powys, our council tax records don't have a fully complete UPRN on every address. I know that some local authorities across Wales do have that, because when they data match during the canvas, that makes their life a lot easier. I think there's about 50-odd per cent of our council tax that have UPRNs. So, that was the level of accuracy: we know that, if that number and that number matches, it's exact. However, for the other proportion, that's not so possible. And there are a lot of the data sets that don't have UPRNs, so any discrepancies in the way addresses have been typed up—. For example, you could have '1 High Street', you could have 'Flat 1 High Street', 'Flat 1' without a property name and 'High Street'—are all of those incarnations the same? If you didn't have a UPRN number or maybe a surname that linked them, that sometimes, as well, could be quite difficult, and we did find incomplete addresses being a problem. 16256 7 2026-09-17T09:31:35 769915 84 En 2026-09-17T10:35:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16256?startPos=3847&l=en http://www.senedd.tv/cy/16256?startPos=3847&l=cy 260917-3 3. Rheoliadau Cynrychiolaeth y Bobl (Cofrestru Etholiadol heb Geisiadau) (Diwygio Etholiadol) (Cymru) 2026: Sesiwn dystiolaeth 2 3. The Representation of the People (Electoral Registration without Applications) (Electoral Reform) (Wales) Regulations 2026: Evidence session 2 C 16256 7 2026-09-17T09:31:35 769926 85 En 2026-09-17T10:39:03 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16256?startPos=4090&l=en http://www.senedd.tv/cy/16256?startPos=4090&l=cy 260917-3 3. Rheoliadau Cynrychiolaeth y Bobl (Cofrestru Etholiadol heb Geisiadau) (Diwygio Etholiadol) (Cymru) 2026: Sesiwn dystiolaeth 2 3. The Representation of the People (Electoral Registration without Applications) (Electoral Reform) (Wales) Regulations 2026: Evidence session 2 C 4787 4787 Peter Fox AS https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=4787 https://busnes.senedd.cymru/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=4787 Fox, Peter Those are very clear lived challenges that you managed to get around. Do you believe that, if that was rolled out all over, there are answers to those challenges, which can make this truly deliverable? Or would we have a half-cocked process that couldn't manage? 16256 7 2026-09-17T09:31:35 769930 86 En 2026-09-17T10:39:24 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16256?startPos=4111&l=en http://www.senedd.tv/cy/16256?startPos=4111&l=cy 260917-3 3. Rheoliadau Cynrychiolaeth y Bobl (Cofrestru Etholiadol heb Geisiadau) (Diwygio Etholiadol) (Cymru) 2026: Sesiwn dystiolaeth 2 3. The Representation of the People (Electoral Registration without Applications) (Electoral Reform) (Wales) Regulations 2026: Evidence session 2 C 12463 Sandra Matthews Matthews, Sandra It requires a lot of manual checks. After the matching and the data mining, there needs to be a lot of quality checking. We spent probably another further week just going through the 5,000 records, just checking, doing some spot checks, ensuring that there weren't any duplicates. We had a couple of issues with the software, just a bug that didn't link people correctly, so even though they had been identified, they weren't linked. So, it just requires checking, whereas now we operate on the fact that an elector or an individual has been proactive and sent us an application that we then verify. We don't want to write out to households to put somebody in their property and register them if they've got no link, because that will undermine the trust in the register. And that wasn't the case with those 5,000 individuals. The records and the checks that we completed obviously did work, because we had very few phone calls—I think only a couple—where somebody rang us and said, 'Actually, these individuals don't live here.' And that was only with the education records where we had relied on that one data set; on all of the others, they were complete enough. The other problem with the process was that we obviously identified another 12,000-odd people with one data set. So, whilst they couldn't be automatically registered, we then had to follow them up to make sure that we weren't missing—. We obviously couldn't do anything with them with regard to the AVR process, but we have a duty as an ERO to follow those up and encourage them, if they are there and they are genuine, to register to vote. 16256 7 2026-09-17T09:31:35 769921 87 En 2026-09-17T10:40:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16256?startPos=4147&l=en http://www.senedd.tv/cy/16256?startPos=4147&l=cy 260917-3 3. Rheoliadau Cynrychiolaeth y Bobl (Cofrestru Etholiadol heb Geisiadau) (Diwygio Etholiadol) (Cymru) 2026: Sesiwn dystiolaeth 2 3. The Representation of the People (Electoral Registration without Applications) (Electoral Reform) (Wales) Regulations 2026: Evidence session 2 C 16256 7 2026-09-17T09:31:35 769931 88 En 2026-09-17T10:41:11 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16256?startPos=4218&l=en http://www.senedd.tv/cy/16256?startPos=4218&l=cy 260917-3 3. Rheoliadau Cynrychiolaeth y Bobl (Cofrestru Etholiadol heb Geisiadau) (Diwygio Etholiadol) (Cymru) 2026: Sesiwn dystiolaeth 2 3. The Representation of the People (Electoral Registration without Applications) (Electoral Reform) (Wales) Regulations 2026: Evidence session 2 C 4787 4787 Peter Fox AS https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=4787 https://busnes.senedd.cymru/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=4787 Fox, Peter Yes. Are there any other—? Does anybody want to add anything else on additional challenges? 16256 7 2026-09-17T09:31:35 769932 89 En 2026-09-17T10:41:17 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16256?startPos=4224&l=en http://www.senedd.tv/cy/16256?startPos=4224&l=cy 260917-3 3. Rheoliadau Cynrychiolaeth y Bobl (Cofrestru Etholiadol heb Geisiadau) (Diwygio Etholiadol) (Cymru) 2026: Sesiwn dystiolaeth 2 3. The Representation of the People (Electoral Registration without Applications) (Electoral Reform) (Wales) Regulations 2026: Evidence session 2 C 10609 Clare Sim Sim, Clare I think in terms of what Sandra's outlined, obviously it's Powys's experience, but the implementation of the pilot was over quite a long period of time, and I think our concerns on the manual process—and, as we said, there's nothing automatic, from an administrator's point of view, about automatic registration—are the amount of time it takes to manually cleanse the data before you do the data match. Then there's the manual quality assurance process—the time that takes and the window that we're looking at in doing that, and the fact that administrators in other authorities, who haven't had the experience of the pilots, were in a very condensed time frame. So, while some risks can be mitigated in terms of that, I think the biggest risk we've got is this short time frame we've got to be able to do that in the other 19 authorities that haven't had the experience that Sandra and Powys have had in that respect. I think, in terms of the reliance on manual systems, when a human is responsible for doing those data checks, there's always that element of risk and error and things as well. And I think our biggest concern is that, if this process appears to be rushed in any way, shape or form, or sufficient time is not given to allow for people to do the work correctly, there's the risk of adding people incorrectly to the register, because those checks haven't been done fully or properly. It's the impact that that has long term on the integrity of the process and on the delivery of elections going forward as well. And I think, again, it's also those concerns around the access to information as well. We're very much aware that a lot of authorities in Wales are currently struggling to access the local data sources. They need to do this exercise. There are regulations, but the regulations that are relied upon that allow electoral registration officers access to things have always been a barrier. UK Government have recognised this and they're currently, in the Representation of the People Bill, trying to address that to make sure those barriers don't exist. And it's a shame that Welsh Government haven't carried out those things first to allow greater access to those data sources to take away some of those barriers that currently exist as well. So, again, it's about having that time period to make sure that the legislative framework and the digital framework are in place to successfully allow for what could be a really successful initiative to get more people on the register and to exercise their democratic rights. 16256 7 2026-09-17T09:31:35 769942 90 En 2026-09-17T10:43:28 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16256?startPos=4355&l=en http://www.senedd.tv/cy/16256?startPos=4355&l=cy 260917-3 3. Rheoliadau Cynrychiolaeth y Bobl (Cofrestru Etholiadol heb Geisiadau) (Diwygio Etholiadol) (Cymru) 2026: Sesiwn dystiolaeth 2 3. The Representation of the People (Electoral Registration without Applications) (Electoral Reform) (Wales) Regulations 2026: Evidence session 2 C 4787 4787 Peter Fox AS https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=4787 https://busnes.senedd.cymru/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=4787 Fox, Peter Thank you. 16256 7 2026-09-17T09:31:35 769943 91 En 2026-09-17T10:43:31 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16256?startPos=4358&l=en http://www.senedd.tv/cy/16256?startPos=4358&l=cy 260917-3 3. Rheoliadau Cynrychiolaeth y Bobl (Cofrestru Etholiadol heb Geisiadau) (Diwygio Etholiadol) (Cymru) 2026: Sesiwn dystiolaeth 2 3. The Representation of the People (Electoral Registration without Applications) (Electoral Reform) (Wales) Regulations 2026: Evidence session 2 C 12462 Ian Bancroft Bancroft, Ian Just maybe a couple of comments. Obviously, you've got some brilliant lived experience from Sandra in Powys, who's obviously undertaking that role on a daily basis, and Clare representing electoral administrators. I guess, as an electoral management board, we both have a statutory role in terms of elections, but also a co-ordinating role. So, I suppose I'm going to give more of an overview, and I think one of the things Sandra's pointed out is that that was successful in Powys. Not all electoral teams are the same in terms of their size and capacity. I think it's fair to say that they're an extremely skilled workforce, so they have the skills to do it. I think, as Clare's described, it's the speed and the timing that's the issue that needs careful management. As an electoral management board, we've co-ordinated an impact assessment to try and make sure those impacts are really, really clear, and there is a Welsh Government AVR working group in terms of making sure those impacts are mitigated. I think that's just really critical that there's momentum on that—so, those risks around software, timescale and also funding. And we're grateful that funding has been given to support the additional resources that are required, but it remains a live risk in terms of delivery for the 2027 period, and I think just being tight around managing that live risk is really critical and important. 16256 7 2026-09-17T09:31:35 769948 92 En 2026-09-17T10:44:55 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16256?startPos=4442&l=en http://www.senedd.tv/cy/16256?startPos=4442&l=cy 260917-3 3. Rheoliadau Cynrychiolaeth y Bobl (Cofrestru Etholiadol heb Geisiadau) (Diwygio Etholiadol) (Cymru) 2026: Sesiwn dystiolaeth 2 3. The Representation of the People (Electoral Registration without Applications) (Electoral Reform) (Wales) Regulations 2026: Evidence session 2 C 4787 4787 Peter Fox AS https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=4787 https://busnes.senedd.cymru/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=4787 Fox, Peter Thanks for that. There'll be several other areas drawn out later on that refer to many of the points you've raised. If I could go on—. Should I go on, Chair, to notification periods, or does somebody else want to come in? 16256 7 2026-09-17T09:31:35 769902 93 En 2026-09-17T10:45:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16256?startPos=4447&l=en http://www.senedd.tv/cy/16256?startPos=4447&l=cy 260917-3 3. Rheoliadau Cynrychiolaeth y Bobl (Cofrestru Etholiadol heb Geisiadau) (Diwygio Etholiadol) (Cymru) 2026: Sesiwn dystiolaeth 2 3. The Representation of the People (Electoral Registration without Applications) (Electoral Reform) (Wales) Regulations 2026: Evidence session 2 C 16256 7 2026-09-17T09:31:35 769905 94 En 2026-09-17T10:45:08 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16256?startPos=4455&l=en http://www.senedd.tv/cy/16256?startPos=4455&l=cy 260917-3 3. Rheoliadau Cynrychiolaeth y Bobl (Cofrestru Etholiadol heb Geisiadau) (Diwygio Etholiadol) (Cymru) 2026: Sesiwn dystiolaeth 2 3. The Representation of the People (Electoral Registration without Applications) (Electoral Reform) (Wales) Regulations 2026: Evidence session 2 C 12152 12152 Carmelo Colasanto AS https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12152 https://busnes.senedd.cymru/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12152 Colasanto, Carmelo No, it's just you, Peter.  16256 7 2026-09-17T09:31:35 769907 95 En 2026-09-17T10:45:10 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16256?startPos=4457&l=en http://www.senedd.tv/cy/16256?startPos=4457&l=cy 260917-3 3. Rheoliadau Cynrychiolaeth y Bobl (Cofrestru Etholiadol heb Geisiadau) (Diwygio Etholiadol) (Cymru) 2026: Sesiwn dystiolaeth 2 3. The Representation of the People (Electoral Registration without Applications) (Electoral Reform) (Wales) Regulations 2026: Evidence session 2 C 4787 4787 Peter Fox AS https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=4787 https://busnes.senedd.cymru/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=4787 Fox, Peter So, if I could explore briefly a couple of points around the notification period to opt out, because you'll know that, originally, the pilots were moving forward with a 60-day opt-out. There have been various recommendations to go to a 28-day opt-out, and then there is a set of concerns from similar people saying, 'Well, yes it's a good idea, but what about the safeguarding side of that?' And I just wondered if you could give us a reflection on the benefits and potential drawbacks of that shorter 28-day period as you see it. That would be really handy. 16256 7 2026-09-17T09:31:35 769911 96 En 2026-09-17T10:45:49 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16256?startPos=4496&l=en http://www.senedd.tv/cy/16256?startPos=4496&l=cy 260917-3 3. Rheoliadau Cynrychiolaeth y Bobl (Cofrestru Etholiadol heb Geisiadau) (Diwygio Etholiadol) (Cymru) 2026: Sesiwn dystiolaeth 2 3. The Representation of the People (Electoral Registration without Applications) (Electoral Reform) (Wales) Regulations 2026: Evidence session 2 C 10609 Clare Sim Sim, Clare I think that, in terms of the benefits, if this is to be rolled out before the local government elections next year, you have to have a 28-day period. You've run out of time to have a 60-day period without it impacting detrimentally on the delivery of the local government elections next year. With a 60-day window, the earliest we're looking at notification letters going out—. Given that we haven't got legislation in place yet, the EMS suppliers haven't got what they need, the Electoral Commission have had to produce guidance before the legislation has come out, again, we're in a position where January, early January is the absolute earliest we can look at notification letters going out. A 60-day window would then push you into those people being added to the register during the notice of election period. So, you wouldn't have poll cards for those people until later, which, again, if we're introducing people to a democratic process and then putting barriers in their way or sort of not giving them a good first experience is detrimental there. So, having a 28-day window in this case to allow you to have those people on the register by the 1 March notice of alteration is crucial to make sure that they're included in the data that electoral administrators will send to printers to administer that election. There are obviously drawbacks, I guess, in that, if you've got anonymous electors or if you've got ineligible electors who've unintentionally been sent correspondence—. A longer period obviously gives people more time to respond to that. But I think that, in terms of what the pilots showed, most people tended to respond within a two to three-week period in that window, so that 28-day period would be sufficient. I think Sandra's experience, which I'm sure she can elaborate on as well, is that when they sent reminders during that 60-day window, because it allowed for that to happen, you sometimes still had people responding to it, but generally speaking, I think the pilots have shown that those risks were relatively minimal and a 28-day window is sufficient. 16256 7 2026-09-17T09:31:35 769916 97 En 2026-09-17T10:47:37 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16256?startPos=4604&l=en http://www.senedd.tv/cy/16256?startPos=4604&l=cy 260917-3 3. Rheoliadau Cynrychiolaeth y Bobl (Cofrestru Etholiadol heb Geisiadau) (Diwygio Etholiadol) (Cymru) 2026: Sesiwn dystiolaeth 2 3. The Representation of the People (Electoral Registration without Applications) (Electoral Reform) (Wales) Regulations 2026: Evidence session 2 C 4787 4787 Peter Fox AS https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=4787 https://busnes.senedd.cymru/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=4787 Fox, Peter I'm conscious that a 28-day period might need to be put in place so that we can get ahead with this election, but if that wasn't in the way, is a 28-day period still right? 16256 7 2026-09-17T09:31:35 769918 98 En 2026-09-17T10:47:48 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16256?startPos=4615&l=en http://www.senedd.tv/cy/16256?startPos=4615&l=cy 260917-3 3. Rheoliadau Cynrychiolaeth y Bobl (Cofrestru Etholiadol heb Geisiadau) (Diwygio Etholiadol) (Cymru) 2026: Sesiwn dystiolaeth 2 3. The Representation of the People (Electoral Registration without Applications) (Electoral Reform) (Wales) Regulations 2026: Evidence session 2 C 10609 Clare Sim Sim, Clare I think 28 days allow electors a sufficient period of time in which they can raise concerns. I think the key thing is around the messaging that sits behind it, so the communications campaign around this taking place, the messaging on the outer envelopes that are sent to make people aware what the content is and the need to engage with it, and obviously the communication, then, that's within that correspondence as well to make people aware, if they are a vulnerable elector and need to pursue anonymous registration, what their options are in terms of that to mitigate some of those risks and concerns. The Welsh Government has recently passed legislation that removes the open register for the local government register, so, again, that takes away some of those risks about where their information would appear as well. 16256 7 2026-09-17T09:31:35 769953 99 En 2026-09-17T10:48:28 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16256?startPos=4655&l=en http://www.senedd.tv/cy/16256?startPos=4655&l=cy 260917-3 3. Rheoliadau Cynrychiolaeth y Bobl (Cofrestru Etholiadol heb Geisiadau) (Diwygio Etholiadol) (Cymru) 2026: Sesiwn dystiolaeth 2 3. The Representation of the People (Electoral Registration without Applications) (Electoral Reform) (Wales) Regulations 2026: Evidence session 2 C 4787 4787 Peter Fox AS https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=4787 https://busnes.senedd.cymru/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=4787 Fox, Peter Some of the points—. I'll raise this question, and you may all want to come in on it and I'll be done then. Some of the issues that have been raised—. As I touched on earlier, there were some safeguarding issues. Certainly, One Voice Wales could see the benefit of 28 days, but they also had great concerns about, perhaps, people who might be stuck in domestic violence situations or who might be disabled and might not have good access to communications or who might face challenges in using communications. Have we got the balance right? Would the balance be right between 28 days and enabling, or making sure that we have those safeguards in place? 16256 7 2026-09-17T09:31:35 769957 100 En 2026-09-17T10:49:09 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16256?startPos=4696&l=en http://www.senedd.tv/cy/16256?startPos=4696&l=cy 260917-3 3. Rheoliadau Cynrychiolaeth y Bobl (Cofrestru Etholiadol heb Geisiadau) (Diwygio Etholiadol) (Cymru) 2026: Sesiwn dystiolaeth 2 3. The Representation of the People (Electoral Registration without Applications) (Electoral Reform) (Wales) Regulations 2026: Evidence session 2 C 12463 Sandra Matthews Matthews, Sandra Going on from what Clare's just mentioned, from our experience, I think 28 days would be enough. I think that we were the only local authority within those 60 days to send a reminder out. So, we had three communications: the initial notification of registration; then about 25 days later we sent a reminder, a prompt—'You still have until the end of August to opt out of the automatic registration, but obviously the chance to register fully'; and then the final notification. With regard to the phone calls and the opt-outs, the early opt-outs with regard to concern about safety and safeguarding were all in the first tranche of phone calls. Anyone who wanted to explore or needed to consider anonymous registration all rang us within the first two weeks of receiving that communication. Any parents who felt strongly that their child should not be on the register at that age rang and wanted to opt them out at that point. During the reminder stage, or the prompt stage, as I call it, we did have opt-outs. We did have a handful, a very small number; we only had 28-odd for the whole of the mailout. But we had a few, and I took some of those phone calls myself—I happened to be in the office—and when I questioned, 'Why did you leave it until this point when you had the time?', it was, 'I just put it on the mantelpiece' or 'I put it in the recycling'. So, they weren't concerned about their safety, they just wanted to opt out. They'd read it fully by then, considered it and obviously wanted to opt out at that stage. When we sent the final notification, again, we had, I think, just one person querying something, but nothing with regard to safeguarding. All those phone calls with concerns about their name appearing on a public register, or because of their safety or circumstance, all happened within the first tranche, and our team were able to advise them accordingly. So, based on that experience, I think 28 days would give sufficient time. I do think—and Clare made the point, and it was something that we experienced—that we need to have clear messaging on the envelope. It's amazing how many people receive an envelope and don't do anything with it. Certainly, that would also aid with the accuracy, where, if somebody has been matched and identified against the wrong property, what tends to happen is the householder just thinks, 'Oh, they might be the past occupier' or that it's a bureaucracy or admin error, and they just chuck it in the recycling. We need them to phone us. 'If this person does not live at your property, we need you to contact us immediately.' And, again, with regard to safeguarding, there needs to be a clear message that if you do not wish to be automatically registered, you need to take action by a certain date, or immediately. So, I think there are mitigations around that, with clear communications and flagging that.  And I think—. We had a by-election. We had several by-elections, actually, during that 60-day period—never a quiet time—and, obviously, that 60-day period is quite difficult. You're telling people they're going to be on a register at a certain point, but, actually, there's an election in the meantime. It's about the messaging to the public. 'Oh, does that mean I can vote for this one?' 'No, it doesn't, you need to do something else.' And 60 days was quite a long period for that, so I think 28 days probably sits better with an election timetable, because we don't just have elections every four years, or even once a year; they happen throughout the year, so it's something that, for the electorate, needs to be a bit more immediate.  16256 7 2026-09-17T09:31:35 769920 101 En 2026-09-17T10:50:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16256?startPos=4747&l=en http://www.senedd.tv/cy/16256?startPos=4747&l=cy 260917-3 3. Rheoliadau Cynrychiolaeth y Bobl (Cofrestru Etholiadol heb Geisiadau) (Diwygio Etholiadol) (Cymru) 2026: Sesiwn dystiolaeth 2 3. The Representation of the People (Electoral Registration without Applications) (Electoral Reform) (Wales) Regulations 2026: Evidence session 2 C 16256 7 2026-09-17T09:31:35 769940 102 En 2026-09-17T10:53:06 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16256?startPos=4933&l=en http://www.senedd.tv/cy/16256?startPos=4933&l=cy 260917-3 3. Rheoliadau Cynrychiolaeth y Bobl (Cofrestru Etholiadol heb Geisiadau) (Diwygio Etholiadol) (Cymru) 2026: Sesiwn dystiolaeth 2 3. The Representation of the People (Electoral Registration without Applications) (Electoral Reform) (Wales) Regulations 2026: Evidence session 2 C 12462 Ian Bancroft Bancroft, Ian Two summary points, which I think both Clare and Sandra picked up. It feels an appropriate balance, but the communication is absolutely critical. And I think what electoral teams have got really good at is engaging in ways that reach people who haven't been reached in the past. So, I think using those networks to communicate, as well as campaigns, is just really critical. 16256 7 2026-09-17T09:31:35 769944 103 En 2026-09-17T10:53:28 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16256?startPos=4955&l=en http://www.senedd.tv/cy/16256?startPos=4955&l=cy 260917-3 3. Rheoliadau Cynrychiolaeth y Bobl (Cofrestru Etholiadol heb Geisiadau) (Diwygio Etholiadol) (Cymru) 2026: Sesiwn dystiolaeth 2 3. The Representation of the People (Electoral Registration without Applications) (Electoral Reform) (Wales) Regulations 2026: Evidence session 2 C 4787 4787 Peter Fox AS https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=4787 https://busnes.senedd.cymru/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=4787 Fox, Peter Thank you, Chair. 16256 7 2026-09-17T09:31:35 769946 104 En 2026-09-17T10:53:29 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16256?startPos=4956&l=en http://www.senedd.tv/cy/16256?startPos=4956&l=cy 260917-3 3. Rheoliadau Cynrychiolaeth y Bobl (Cofrestru Etholiadol heb Geisiadau) (Diwygio Etholiadol) (Cymru) 2026: Sesiwn dystiolaeth 2 3. The Representation of the People (Electoral Registration without Applications) (Electoral Reform) (Wales) Regulations 2026: Evidence session 2 C 12152 12152 Carmelo Colasanto AS https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12152 https://busnes.senedd.cymru/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12152 Colasanto, Carmelo Thank you, Peter. Mike, do you want to come in on the registration application exercise? 16256 7 2026-09-17T09:31:35 769947 105 En 2026-09-17T10:53:38 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16256?startPos=4965&l=en http://www.senedd.tv/cy/16256?startPos=4965&l=cy 260917-3 3. Rheoliadau Cynrychiolaeth y Bobl (Cofrestru Etholiadol heb Geisiadau) (Diwygio Etholiadol) (Cymru) 2026: Sesiwn dystiolaeth 2 3. The Representation of the People (Electoral Registration without Applications) (Electoral Reform) (Wales) Regulations 2026: Evidence session 2 C 332 332 Mike Hedges AC https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=332 https://busnes.senedd.cymru/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=332 Hedges, Mike The first one is about areas with high turnover. These are areas with students, but also areas with lots of houses in multiple occupation. And Cathays in Cardiff, Treforest in Pontypridd, Uplands in Swansea meet those criteria. How are you going to make sure you get those matched as people move? 16256 7 2026-09-17T09:31:35 769950 106 En 2026-09-17T10:54:09 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16256?startPos=4996&l=en http://www.senedd.tv/cy/16256?startPos=4996&l=cy 260917-3 3. Rheoliadau Cynrychiolaeth y Bobl (Cofrestru Etholiadol heb Geisiadau) (Diwygio Etholiadol) (Cymru) 2026: Sesiwn dystiolaeth 2 3. The Representation of the People (Electoral Registration without Applications) (Electoral Reform) (Wales) Regulations 2026: Evidence session 2 C 12463 Sandra Matthews Matthews, Sandra Me again? [Laughter.] I think the frequency—. The flexibility in the regs does allow EROs some idea of timing an AVR exercise that might suit their circumstances and their type of local authority area better. I would say that AVR isn't the only mechanism that the electoral registration officers have to get people on the register. We already do quite a lot of work, and I think this is pretty much commonplace across local authority areas. We regularly receive updates from our council tax team with regard to movers coming into the authority, account changes, and most electoral registration officers and teams would be fairly proactive in reaching out to those individuals and encouraging them to register because they've moved address and, therefore, they will have, potentially, lost their right to vote at their last address. So, I think electoral registration teams have got quite good at becoming proactive and chasing up changes to addresses. So, I would say that AVR isn't the only mechanism we have to get these people registered. Obviously, it does require a little bit more input from those individuals themselves. 16256 7 2026-09-17T09:31:35 769938 107 En 2026-09-17T10:55:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16256?startPos=5047&l=en http://www.senedd.tv/cy/16256?startPos=5047&l=cy 260917-3 3. Rheoliadau Cynrychiolaeth y Bobl (Cofrestru Etholiadol heb Geisiadau) (Diwygio Etholiadol) (Cymru) 2026: Sesiwn dystiolaeth 2 3. The Representation of the People (Electoral Registration without Applications) (Electoral Reform) (Wales) Regulations 2026: Evidence session 2 C 16256 7 2026-09-17T09:31:35 769941 108 En 2026-09-17T10:55:32 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16256?startPos=5079&l=en http://www.senedd.tv/cy/16256?startPos=5079&l=cy 260917-3 3. Rheoliadau Cynrychiolaeth y Bobl (Cofrestru Etholiadol heb Geisiadau) (Diwygio Etholiadol) (Cymru) 2026: Sesiwn dystiolaeth 2 3. The Representation of the People (Electoral Registration without Applications) (Electoral Reform) (Wales) Regulations 2026: Evidence session 2 C 332 332 Mike Hedges AC https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=332 https://busnes.senedd.cymru/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=332 Hedges, Mike You will have a lot of students joining in the next couple of weeks. So, the matching system and the work with universities will, obviously, help you with that and you'd hope to get the halls of residence and other university accommodation picked up. So, this is the time of year to do that, isn't it, for universities? But, for people in HMOs, people in other types of accommodation who move very regularly, people in bedsits who move very regularly, people who are in supported accommodation who move fairly regularly, how are you going to make sure you keep on picking them up? 16256 7 2026-09-17T09:31:35 769949 109 En 2026-09-17T10:56:18 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16256?startPos=5125&l=en http://www.senedd.tv/cy/16256?startPos=5125&l=cy 260917-3 3. Rheoliadau Cynrychiolaeth y Bobl (Cofrestru Etholiadol heb Geisiadau) (Diwygio Etholiadol) (Cymru) 2026: Sesiwn dystiolaeth 2 3. The Representation of the People (Electoral Registration without Applications) (Electoral Reform) (Wales) Regulations 2026: Evidence session 2 C 10609 Clare Sim Sim, Clare [Inaudible.]—as you said, with those particular demographics, it is having the local data available and that that local data is as up-to-date as possible to allow you to automatically register them. And I think the actual register, in an ironic sense, is probably the most up-to-date record that we've got in a local authority, in terms of the fact that you carry out a canvass every single year and the information is verified. And, as Sandra said, looking at alternative methods in terms of those, because having access to data that accurately reflects those high churn types of properties and things, is a challenge. There's no two ways about that. I think the point around university students is quite an interesting point as well, as you said. It was interesting, during the pilot, when you had the data matching taking place in the May period, the risks that that sometimes can introduce as well. You would have automatically registered a higher volume of university students in one of the pilot areas, but, due to the nature, as you said, of student registrations, as soon as you'd put them on the register, they'd effectively moved by the time that you published the register. So, again, there are concerns around how different demographics interact, the availability of data that you've got that allows you to do that, and also the mechanisms that you have then to review the register. For types of properties like that, there's a direct registration process that the Welsh Government are proposing, but there's not a way of automatically removing those people that you can see where there are those high churn areas as well. And our concern is that you can end up then with register bloat, potentially, where you're adding lots of people and so you're getting a more complete register, but whether that register is more accurate is questionable, unless you've got the mechanisms to easily remove people and identify them to take them off the register. Again, the UK Government's Representation of the People Bill is looking at introducing that side of it as well. So, we've got concerns, which I think is what is being stated here, about how you get these high churns on. It's also how you get those high churns off to make sure that register accuracy is maintained across the board, and also then trying to find those data sources that more accurately help you identify—. For universities, it's clear where that information might come from. But, for things like HMOs and things, it's having access to information that local authorities have access to, to be able to accurately and quickly be able to do that as well. 16256 7 2026-09-17T09:31:35 769962 110 En 2026-09-17T10:58:39 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16256?startPos=5266&l=en http://www.senedd.tv/cy/16256?startPos=5266&l=cy 260917-3 3. Rheoliadau Cynrychiolaeth y Bobl (Cofrestru Etholiadol heb Geisiadau) (Diwygio Etholiadol) (Cymru) 2026: Sesiwn dystiolaeth 2 3. The Representation of the People (Electoral Registration without Applications) (Electoral Reform) (Wales) Regulations 2026: Evidence session 2 C 12462 Ian Bancroft Bancroft, Ian I think the point that it brings out, which has come through the other questions as well, is those individual issues are—. The registration teams are skilled and capable of managing those and, spending that time having overseen a registration team with a high university population, they were very good at making sure there are additional things in place to make sure we didn't miss those. It's the cumulative effect of doing absent voters, overseas voters, of doing people who've got high churn, in a quick timescale, I think, which is probably the biggest area of risk to manage in this particular time frame. Over a longer time frame, in terms of future elections, I think that all becomes more manageable. So, I think the large risk rise is in the current situation, with the implementation for 2027, with all of those factors that are sitting with electoral registration teams. They are manageable, but they need really tight management, and reviewing how that's gone is probably critical because of the fact that it's the first time and, also, those delivery risks are not insignificant. 16256 7 2026-09-17T09:31:35 769968 111 En 2026-09-17T10:59:51 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16256?startPos=5338&l=en http://www.senedd.tv/cy/16256?startPos=5338&l=cy 260917-3 3. Rheoliadau Cynrychiolaeth y Bobl (Cofrestru Etholiadol heb Geisiadau) (Diwygio Etholiadol) (Cymru) 2026: Sesiwn dystiolaeth 2 3. The Representation of the People (Electoral Registration without Applications) (Electoral Reform) (Wales) Regulations 2026: Evidence session 2 C 332 332 Mike Hedges AC https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=332 https://busnes.senedd.cymru/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=332 Hedges, Mike My final question is about supported housing. Are you getting data on supported housing so you can contact the people who may be in the Wallich for three months and then move on to another organisation for six months, and then move into a HMO? 16256 7 2026-09-17T09:31:35 769983 112 En 2026-09-17T11:00:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16256?startPos=5347&l=en http://www.senedd.tv/cy/16256?startPos=5347&l=cy 260917-3 3. Rheoliadau Cynrychiolaeth y Bobl (Cofrestru Etholiadol heb Geisiadau) (Diwygio Etholiadol) (Cymru) 2026: Sesiwn dystiolaeth 2 3. The Representation of the People (Electoral Registration without Applications) (Electoral Reform) (Wales) Regulations 2026: Evidence session 2 C 16256 7 2026-09-17T09:31:35 769988 113 En 2026-09-17T11:00:10 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16256?startPos=5357&l=en http://www.senedd.tv/cy/16256?startPos=5357&l=cy 260917-3 3. Rheoliadau Cynrychiolaeth y Bobl (Cofrestru Etholiadol heb Geisiadau) (Diwygio Etholiadol) (Cymru) 2026: Sesiwn dystiolaeth 2 3. The Representation of the People (Electoral Registration without Applications) (Electoral Reform) (Wales) Regulations 2026: Evidence session 2 C 10609 Clare Sim Sim, Clare I think our experience is, from what we've heard from electoral administrators, is that a lot of them are struggling to get even access to council tax data in their authorities at the moment. So, while there are provisions there, as we said earlier, that allow them to have access to that, there are definitely difficulties in getting the relevant other teams in the council to provide the information and to provide it on the frequency of the basis, particularly in those sorts of circumstances, for them to actually have that. I don't know whether, Sandra, your experiences are— 16256 7 2026-09-17T09:31:35 769993 114 En 2026-09-17T11:00:34 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16256?startPos=5381&l=en http://www.senedd.tv/cy/16256?startPos=5381&l=cy 260917-3 3. Rheoliadau Cynrychiolaeth y Bobl (Cofrestru Etholiadol heb Geisiadau) (Diwygio Etholiadol) (Cymru) 2026: Sesiwn dystiolaeth 2 3. The Representation of the People (Electoral Registration without Applications) (Electoral Reform) (Wales) Regulations 2026: Evidence session 2 C 12463 Sandra Matthews Matthews, Sandra It's the same. Whilst we are very lucky in Powys, as we have good relationships with our department—I have an excellent data protection officer who backs up the EROs' power to request data—having regular data sets updated is a problem. That will be the case across lots of local authority areas, just because the teams themselves that maintain those records, they have to supply them, and that relationship needs to be built up over time, not just ad hoc. 16256 7 2026-09-17T09:31:35 769995 115 En 2026-09-17T11:01:10 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16256?startPos=5417&l=en http://www.senedd.tv/cy/16256?startPos=5417&l=cy 260917-3 3. Rheoliadau Cynrychiolaeth y Bobl (Cofrestru Etholiadol heb Geisiadau) (Diwygio Etholiadol) (Cymru) 2026: Sesiwn dystiolaeth 2 3. The Representation of the People (Electoral Registration without Applications) (Electoral Reform) (Wales) Regulations 2026: Evidence session 2 C 12152 12152 Carmelo Colasanto AS https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12152 https://busnes.senedd.cymru/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12152 Colasanto, Carmelo Okay. David. 16256 7 2026-09-17T09:31:35 769998 116 En 2026-09-17T11:01:12 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16256?startPos=5419&l=en http://www.senedd.tv/cy/16256?startPos=5419&l=cy 260917-3 3. Rheoliadau Cynrychiolaeth y Bobl (Cofrestru Etholiadol heb Geisiadau) (Diwygio Etholiadol) (Cymru) 2026: Sesiwn dystiolaeth 2 3. The Representation of the People (Electoral Registration without Applications) (Electoral Reform) (Wales) Regulations 2026: Evidence session 2 C 12159 12159 David Hughes AS https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12159 https://busnes.senedd.cymru/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12159 Hughes, David How confident are you that there's no duplication? Because, obviously, when a person's registered, say, in Powys, and they go off to university in Pontypridd, they register there and they register in Powys. How can you tell if they register in two places so that they're able to vote in two places? 16256 7 2026-09-17T09:31:35 770004 117 En 2026-09-17T11:01:38 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16256?startPos=5445&l=en http://www.senedd.tv/cy/16256?startPos=5445&l=cy 260917-3 3. Rheoliadau Cynrychiolaeth y Bobl (Cofrestru Etholiadol heb Geisiadau) (Diwygio Etholiadol) (Cymru) 2026: Sesiwn dystiolaeth 2 3. The Representation of the People (Electoral Registration without Applications) (Electoral Reform) (Wales) Regulations 2026: Evidence session 2 C 10609 Clare Sim Sim, Clare I think, in that particular example, in terms of university students, university students are eligible to register in two places. I think what we're concerned about is that if you are using university data to automatically register students, is the unintended risk—well, they can be registered twice; they can't vote at the same election twice—of them unintentionally being in a position where they could do that and not understand the consequences through automatic registration. While it's correct that they can be registered in both places and that could possibly be the case, I think our concern would be more what Sandra alluded to earlier, that because of the nature of the way that names are on different sorts of documentation and things, and different council records, there's the ability to almost register the same person twice because of differentiations within their name. There's a risk of that because you haven't necessarily got the additional information that can uniquely identify somebody, such as a national insurance number or a date of birth, within local government records. So, using local data, there is a risk of duplication. I think we referenced in our written evidence that the Democracy Club, who administer polling station staff, and Financial Data Intelligence Framework, who have huge expertise in data—far better than I definitely do—have explained some of these things. They've got huge concerns over the nature of fuzzy matches, which then naturally lead to potential for duplications. You've got the manual checks that kind of mitigate some of that, but, again, without additional information that some national data sets, for instance, would potentially have, for you to be certain that it is a unique, different person, or that it's the same person—. That's more our concern, I think, in terms of duplications. 16256 7 2026-09-17T09:31:35 770012 118 En 2026-09-17T11:03:17 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16256?startPos=5544&l=en http://www.senedd.tv/cy/16256?startPos=5544&l=cy 260917-3 3. Rheoliadau Cynrychiolaeth y Bobl (Cofrestru Etholiadol heb Geisiadau) (Diwygio Etholiadol) (Cymru) 2026: Sesiwn dystiolaeth 2 3. The Representation of the People (Electoral Registration without Applications) (Electoral Reform) (Wales) Regulations 2026: Evidence session 2 C 12159 12159 David Hughes AS https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12159 https://busnes.senedd.cymru/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12159 Hughes, David Thank you very much. 16256 7 2026-09-17T09:31:35 770015 119 En 2026-09-17T11:03:20 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16256?startPos=5547&l=en http://www.senedd.tv/cy/16256?startPos=5547&l=cy 260917-3 3. Rheoliadau Cynrychiolaeth y Bobl (Cofrestru Etholiadol heb Geisiadau) (Diwygio Etholiadol) (Cymru) 2026: Sesiwn dystiolaeth 2 3. The Representation of the People (Electoral Registration without Applications) (Electoral Reform) (Wales) Regulations 2026: Evidence session 2 C 12152 12152 Carmelo Colasanto AS https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12152 https://busnes.senedd.cymru/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12152 Colasanto, Carmelo Thank you, David. Elyn. 16256 7 2026-09-17T09:31:35 770016 120 En 2026-09-17T11:03:25 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16256?startPos=5552&l=en http://www.senedd.tv/cy/16256?startPos=5552&l=cy 260917-3 3. Rheoliadau Cynrychiolaeth y Bobl (Cofrestru Etholiadol heb Geisiadau) (Diwygio Etholiadol) (Cymru) 2026: Sesiwn dystiolaeth 2 3. The Representation of the People (Electoral Registration without Applications) (Electoral Reform) (Wales) Regulations 2026: Evidence session 2 C 12164 12164 Elyn Stephens AS https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12164 https://busnes.senedd.cymru/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12164 Stephens, Elyn I guess this would be directed at Sandra. In terms of the eight-week period that is recommended, do you think that's adequate to do the data matching that you need? And is there any work being carried out in Powys as a result of the pilot to ensure that you're retaining benefits from that first load of data matching so that the work reduces over subsequent years? 16256 7 2026-09-17T09:31:35 770021 121 En 2026-09-17T11:03:50 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16256?startPos=5577&l=en http://www.senedd.tv/cy/16256?startPos=5577&l=cy 260917-3 3. Rheoliadau Cynrychiolaeth y Bobl (Cofrestru Etholiadol heb Geisiadau) (Diwygio Etholiadol) (Cymru) 2026: Sesiwn dystiolaeth 2 3. The Representation of the People (Electoral Registration without Applications) (Electoral Reform) (Wales) Regulations 2026: Evidence session 2 C 12463 Sandra Matthews Matthews, Sandra So, I'm hoping, having done the pilots, that, moving forward, we won't be having the whole data set again, just the updates from the last 12 months. So, that's going to make our job quite a lot easier, and for the other pilot areas as well. The difficulty of the timing will be—. I don't know the number of records that some of these local authority data sets hold. We had, sort of, 60,000 records in some data sets, others had 80, some may only have had 8,000. So, it really will depend on the decision of the EROs as to what data sets they request. We, obviously, started the process quite early, in that we started looking at data sets—some were discarded because they weren't of good enough quality or didn't have the sufficient information we needed. But I think eight weeks should be enough for most of the teams. Even those large local authorities, who will have much bulkier data sets, will have, probably, a larger team to help cope with that and the funding to try and support that. Also, there's some work being done now in the next week or two with the AEA to share some knowledge and good practice from local authorities that currently do a lot of data matching and data cleaning. So, hopefully, sharing those skills to be able to roll that out will be helpful. 16256 7 2026-09-17T09:31:35 769917 122 En 2026-09-17T11:05:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16256?startPos=5647&l=en http://www.senedd.tv/cy/16256?startPos=5647&l=cy 260917-3 3. Rheoliadau Cynrychiolaeth y Bobl (Cofrestru Etholiadol heb Geisiadau) (Diwygio Etholiadol) (Cymru) 2026: Sesiwn dystiolaeth 2 3. The Representation of the People (Electoral Registration without Applications) (Electoral Reform) (Wales) Regulations 2026: Evidence session 2 C 16256 7 2026-09-17T09:31:35 769923 123 En 2026-09-17T11:05:17 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16256?startPos=5664&l=en http://www.senedd.tv/cy/16256?startPos=5664&l=cy 260917-3 3. Rheoliadau Cynrychiolaeth y Bobl (Cofrestru Etholiadol heb Geisiadau) (Diwygio Etholiadol) (Cymru) 2026: Sesiwn dystiolaeth 2 3. The Representation of the People (Electoral Registration without Applications) (Electoral Reform) (Wales) Regulations 2026: Evidence session 2 C 12164 12164 Elyn Stephens AS https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12164 https://busnes.senedd.cymru/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12164 Stephens, Elyn Thank you. In terms of going forward, do you think it's possible to establish a common data point or a common data standard? So, you mentioned earlier UPRN, which probably wouldn't work in Powys, but might in other local authorities, so that, again, the amount of work needed to be done to do that matching reduces in future. 16256 7 2026-09-17T09:31:35 769928 124 En 2026-09-17T11:05:39 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16256?startPos=5686&l=en http://www.senedd.tv/cy/16256?startPos=5686&l=cy 260917-3 3. Rheoliadau Cynrychiolaeth y Bobl (Cofrestru Etholiadol heb Geisiadau) (Diwygio Etholiadol) (Cymru) 2026: Sesiwn dystiolaeth 2 3. The Representation of the People (Electoral Registration without Applications) (Electoral Reform) (Wales) Regulations 2026: Evidence session 2 C 12463 Sandra Matthews Matthews, Sandra Again, in some local authorities, they already are are really good. They've all got UPRN numbers against their council tax database, for example. Powys is working on it and, actually, as a direct result of our experience last year with the pilots—it was only a few weeks ago at our corporate services event—we were discussing trying to look at a corporate standard for data sets. So, that is something, probably, all local authorities will find as part of this process. So, hopefully, it will benefit the wider community within local authorities. Raising awareness of the UPRN number, raising awareness of, perhaps, having a certain standard when you enter somebody's name and certain fields that should be a must, I think, will develop over time. Again, one of the reasons we wanted to pilot is to see and to test data sets. We often hear from electors, 'Well, I've told council tax, I've told one of your other departments'—I'm sure you know, you often hear it—and yet we don't have this joined-up approach. So, moving forward, there is definitely an opportunity where somebody has contacted the local authority, as they do for registrars with Tell Us Once, that works seamlessly and hopefully alleviates the problem, where somebody has passed away, that, actually, they don't need to contact 10 other departments where that person, an individual, might show up on. So, I think it's longer term, but it's not going to happen overnight. You've probably been aware with local authorities that these things do take time to bed in, and encouragement, even, from you to local authorities to work on this, moving forward, would help. 16256 7 2026-09-17T09:31:35 769951 125 En 2026-09-17T11:07:22 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16256?startPos=5789&l=en http://www.senedd.tv/cy/16256?startPos=5789&l=cy 260917-3 3. Rheoliadau Cynrychiolaeth y Bobl (Cofrestru Etholiadol heb Geisiadau) (Diwygio Etholiadol) (Cymru) 2026: Sesiwn dystiolaeth 2 3. The Representation of the People (Electoral Registration without Applications) (Electoral Reform) (Wales) Regulations 2026: Evidence session 2 C 10609 Clare Sim Sim, Clare I think it's bigger also than just elections as well, that input. This is being done and, as Sandra said, it's influenced, maybe, what Powys have done through their lessons learnt. But I think it's more around how you create an infrastructure within local authorities and even with national data sets. Through conversations with the Democracy Club, they've talked about the quality of data, of addressing that across the board, to allow you to have the data sets that take away properly the risks that sit around those things, such as assuming everyone has a UPRN, on what data, or how the context or standardisation is, as you said. But that's a wider, bigger problem across the board. 16256 7 2026-09-17T09:31:35 769960 126 En 2026-09-17T11:07:55 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16256?startPos=5822&l=en http://www.senedd.tv/cy/16256?startPos=5822&l=cy 260917-3 3. Rheoliadau Cynrychiolaeth y Bobl (Cofrestru Etholiadol heb Geisiadau) (Diwygio Etholiadol) (Cymru) 2026: Sesiwn dystiolaeth 2 3. The Representation of the People (Electoral Registration without Applications) (Electoral Reform) (Wales) Regulations 2026: Evidence session 2 C 12462 Ian Bancroft Bancroft, Ian That's where the roles of returning officers, chief executives, sitting with that dual hat and viewing elections as an important role to be done across a range of areas of the council, are really critical. Obviously, that's why the complementary work of the AEA and the electoral management board, bringing returning officers together with electoral administrators so that that co-ordination happens effectively and in a high-quality way is really, really critical. As an EMB, we're only 15 months in, but I think what you'll see is that best practice rolled out as a result of that effective co-ordination. I think that's some of the findings from the Electoral Commission's report on the Senedd elections, that you're starting to see stronger and more effective co-ordination. 16256 7 2026-09-17T09:31:35 769965 127 En 2026-09-17T11:08:43 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16256?startPos=5870&l=en http://www.senedd.tv/cy/16256?startPos=5870&l=cy 260917-3 3. Rheoliadau Cynrychiolaeth y Bobl (Cofrestru Etholiadol heb Geisiadau) (Diwygio Etholiadol) (Cymru) 2026: Sesiwn dystiolaeth 2 3. The Representation of the People (Electoral Registration without Applications) (Electoral Reform) (Wales) Regulations 2026: Evidence session 2 C 12164 12164 Elyn Stephens AS https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12164 https://busnes.senedd.cymru/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12164 Stephens, Elyn And then, if I can, Chair, lastly from me. What's really struck me today is the barriers to accessing data sets, even within one's own local authority. So, how do you best see that being tackled?  16256 7 2026-09-17T09:31:35 769970 128 En 2026-09-17T11:09:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16256?startPos=5887&l=en http://www.senedd.tv/cy/16256?startPos=5887&l=cy 260917-3 3. Rheoliadau Cynrychiolaeth y Bobl (Cofrestru Etholiadol heb Geisiadau) (Diwygio Etholiadol) (Cymru) 2026: Sesiwn dystiolaeth 2 3. The Representation of the People (Electoral Registration without Applications) (Electoral Reform) (Wales) Regulations 2026: Evidence session 2 C 12463 Sandra Matthews Matthews, Sandra Me again. It's something, actually, we raised at the AVR working group yesterday. I know colleagues have reached out to departments within their councils and have been denied access to that. I think, ahead of the Senedd election and, actually, with the EMB, there was good work done with data protection officers co-ordinating across the whole of the RO areas, in order to share information for, in that regard, the candidate platform. I think a similar approach we've raised with Welsh Government officials to try and co-ordinate. If you get the backing of your data protection officer, to where a head of service might have a concern about releasing that data set, a DPO officer can help you with that. As I said, we've got an excellent one in Powys, who works to enable us to get that, where there, perhaps, are some concerns about why we're using it, et cetera. So, we've suggested that perhaps trying to get a co-ordinated approach, through some of the DPOs. I think EROs need to be aware, and, again, we've suggested to some of my colleagues who have been having problems, 'You need to go to the top.' As Ian mentioned earlier, EROs need to have oversight. Again, it's something I've always been very lucky with, that our ERO and management team, we raise awareness that, 'This request is going out in the next month, six weeks; your teams need to be aware of it, you need to support that.' As I said, this is where, perhaps, local authorities' experience will differ, because they perhaps haven't used data sets in the same way as we have over the years, and so they need to build that relationship, that trust, that this data is required and how it's going to be used. 16256 7 2026-09-17T09:31:35 769936 129 En 2026-09-17T11:10:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16256?startPos=5947&l=en http://www.senedd.tv/cy/16256?startPos=5947&l=cy 260917-3 3. Rheoliadau Cynrychiolaeth y Bobl (Cofrestru Etholiadol heb Geisiadau) (Diwygio Etholiadol) (Cymru) 2026: Sesiwn dystiolaeth 2 3. The Representation of the People (Electoral Registration without Applications) (Electoral Reform) (Wales) Regulations 2026: Evidence session 2 C 16256 7 2026-09-17T09:31:35 769952 130 En 2026-09-17T11:10:51 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16256?startPos=5998&l=en http://www.senedd.tv/cy/16256?startPos=5998&l=cy 260917-3 3. Rheoliadau Cynrychiolaeth y Bobl (Cofrestru Etholiadol heb Geisiadau) (Diwygio Etholiadol) (Cymru) 2026: Sesiwn dystiolaeth 2 3. The Representation of the People (Electoral Registration without Applications) (Electoral Reform) (Wales) Regulations 2026: Evidence session 2 C 12462 Ian Bancroft Bancroft, Ian As a result of that being raised yesterday, we'll be writing out in the next few days to returning officers, chief executives, to say, 'Please can you place that emphasis?' Often, electoral teams sit within the legal area of a council, the monitoring officer area of a council, which is often where data protection sits as well, so unlocking that co-ordination shouldn't be that difficult; it just needs that emphasis and priority from the top of the organisation. But, again, I think that also brings home that this is a live issue, the importance of that working group co-ordinating and making sure it addresses the risks that you're picking out today and mitigates those in time for May 2027. 16256 7 2026-09-17T09:31:35 769954 131 En 2026-09-17T11:11:35 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16256?startPos=6042&l=en http://www.senedd.tv/cy/16256?startPos=6042&l=cy 260917-3 3. Rheoliadau Cynrychiolaeth y Bobl (Cofrestru Etholiadol heb Geisiadau) (Diwygio Etholiadol) (Cymru) 2026: Sesiwn dystiolaeth 2 3. The Representation of the People (Electoral Registration without Applications) (Electoral Reform) (Wales) Regulations 2026: Evidence session 2 C 10609 Clare Sim Sim, Clare [Inaudible.]—but I think also I mentioned earlier about looking at the legislation in terms of the regulations, in the Representation of the People (England and Wales) Regulations 2001, which are used as the basis for accessing information, and reflecting what UK Government has done to help remove those barriers, and also looking at the nature of some data sets as they are formed from national data sets—so, housing benefit would use DWP data—and then that's acted as a barrier as well to obtaining a really good data source potentially that could be used for that. So, again, just looking at the framework that sits around the legislation to allow greater access as well. 16256 7 2026-09-17T09:31:35 769961 132 En 2026-09-17T11:12:11 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16256?startPos=6078&l=en http://www.senedd.tv/cy/16256?startPos=6078&l=cy 260917-3 3. Rheoliadau Cynrychiolaeth y Bobl (Cofrestru Etholiadol heb Geisiadau) (Diwygio Etholiadol) (Cymru) 2026: Sesiwn dystiolaeth 2 3. The Representation of the People (Electoral Registration without Applications) (Electoral Reform) (Wales) Regulations 2026: Evidence session 2 C 12152 12152 Carmelo Colasanto AS https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12152 https://busnes.senedd.cymru/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12152 Colasanto, Carmelo Thank you, Elyn. Rebeca, I believe you have some questions. 16256 7 2026-09-17T09:31:35 769964 133 En 2026-09-17T11:12:14 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16256?startPos=6081&l=en http://www.senedd.tv/cy/16256?startPos=6081&l=cy 260917-3 3. Rheoliadau Cynrychiolaeth y Bobl (Cofrestru Etholiadol heb Geisiadau) (Diwygio Etholiadol) (Cymru) 2026: Sesiwn dystiolaeth 2 3. The Representation of the People (Electoral Registration without Applications) (Electoral Reform) (Wales) Regulations 2026: Evidence session 2 C 12172 12172 Rebeca Phillips AS https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12172 https://busnes.senedd.cymru/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12172 Phillips, Rebaca Yes. Thank you all for coming in this morning. So, I think most of us in this room will know that local authorities are already stretched when it comes to preparations for the elections next year. How possible is this actually going to be, that this roll-out is actually going to happen? And also, lessons learned from the pilot, are they going to be shared in terms of the lived experience, which is, obviously, really important as well? 16256 7 2026-09-17T09:31:35 769966 134 En 2026-09-17T11:12:45 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16256?startPos=6112&l=en http://www.senedd.tv/cy/16256?startPos=6112&l=cy 260917-3 3. Rheoliadau Cynrychiolaeth y Bobl (Cofrestru Etholiadol heb Geisiadau) (Diwygio Etholiadol) (Cymru) 2026: Sesiwn dystiolaeth 2 3. The Representation of the People (Electoral Registration without Applications) (Electoral Reform) (Wales) Regulations 2026: Evidence session 2 C 12462 Ian Bancroft Bancroft, Ian Maybe if I start with this one in terms of the 'possible' question. It's possible. I think we've all identified risks that have to be mitigated if that's going to work effectively, and I think we would stress that they are live risks that are being managed through that co-ordination. But I think we've all flagged up as organisations that the pressure those small electoral registration teams are under is not insignificant, and, actually, the momentum and the resource that needs to be put in to make sure any issues they faced are removed and addressed, whether that's from software providers being able to deliver on time, whether it's in relation to the funding that's available, I think it's that responsiveness that's really, really critical if we're to see this be successful for 2027. 16256 7 2026-09-17T09:31:35 769972 135 En 2026-09-17T11:13:34 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16256?startPos=6161&l=en http://www.senedd.tv/cy/16256?startPos=6161&l=cy 260917-3 3. Rheoliadau Cynrychiolaeth y Bobl (Cofrestru Etholiadol heb Geisiadau) (Diwygio Etholiadol) (Cymru) 2026: Sesiwn dystiolaeth 2 3. The Representation of the People (Electoral Registration without Applications) (Electoral Reform) (Wales) Regulations 2026: Evidence session 2 C 10609 Clare Sim Sim, Clare I think we've been clear in our evidence that the accelerated timetable that we're facing, amongst all the different responsibilities that electoral services teams are administering at the moment, from the annual canvas process, with the registers due to be published on 1 December, they've got Senedd accounts to submit by November, they worked through the overseas renewals process for the very first time, they're going through the online absent vote conversions process, which is a consequence of Welsh Government not agreeing to the changes back in 2023, which has then led to an administrative burden and built a confusion in relation to that to try and fix that solution, as well as the numerous community and electoral review implementation of changing boundaries, changing electoral arrangements, it's—. I think—some of you, I know, are previous councillors—local government elections are the most difficult set of elections for any electoral services team to run. They may not be the most high profile, like a UK parliamentary or a Senedd election, but the scale of all the different modes that have to be—Powys being a case example—the number of community councils that some areas have—I know Sandra's definitely winning the league table in Wales in terms of that—. But to administer those polls and to have this placed on top, while there can be mitigations and everything, our biggest concern is that we've already run out of time to a certain degree. So, while Welsh Government have now delivered what funding is available—and that's been quite generous, I think, in terms of what's been made available—having notification of that on 3 September for a process that you're meant to roll out from November onwards does not give sufficient time necessary to then recruit. We all know that recruitment processes for local authorities cannot happen just overnight. To actually implement those changes takes time. We're still waiting for the electoral management software, which we're so dependent on for delivering this. The final specifications are not due to be ready with those suppliers until next week, so the pressure that's putting on them to deliver in time. Again, there are ways and means around it, but there's a lot of things. The Electoral Commission have done a great job in producing guidance, so that administrators can actually start to get to grips with what they need to do. But, again, it's very rare for the commission to produce guidance before the legislation is in place, for obvious reasons. The fact that legislation is not going to be in place until probably early November now at the earliest as well, and then to expect administrators to literally go the next day and administer this process is really an unusual situation to be in. It doesn't comply with the Gould principle, where there should be at least a six-month period for people to understand what is required of them. So, while there are mitigations and while the Welsh Government are doing everything I think they can to help that, I think it's just our concerns from the working group meeting that we went to in January, where we discussed that the funding needs to be in place now, the clarity around this needs to be in place now. There is definitely a risk to delivery when people are still unsure of what that process is, have not got clarity on the legislation, and are required to implement something that could then have knock-on consequences on the delivery of a local government election, which is what we're concerned about.  16256 7 2026-09-17T09:31:35 769945 136 En 2026-09-17T11:15:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16256?startPos=6247&l=en http://www.senedd.tv/cy/16256?startPos=6247&l=cy 260917-3 3. Rheoliadau Cynrychiolaeth y Bobl (Cofrestru Etholiadol heb Geisiadau) (Diwygio Etholiadol) (Cymru) 2026: Sesiwn dystiolaeth 2 3. The Representation of the People (Electoral Registration without Applications) (Electoral Reform) (Wales) Regulations 2026: Evidence session 2 C 16256 7 2026-09-17T09:31:35 769955 137 En 2026-09-17T11:16:35 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16256?startPos=6342&l=en http://www.senedd.tv/cy/16256?startPos=6342&l=cy 260917-3 3. Rheoliadau Cynrychiolaeth y Bobl (Cofrestru Etholiadol heb Geisiadau) (Diwygio Etholiadol) (Cymru) 2026: Sesiwn dystiolaeth 2 3. The Representation of the People (Electoral Registration without Applications) (Electoral Reform) (Wales) Regulations 2026: Evidence session 2 C 12172 12172 Rebeca Phillips AS https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12172 https://busnes.senedd.cymru/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12172 Phillips, Rebaca Is there a cut-off point, as in—? 16256 7 2026-09-17T09:31:35 769956 138 En 2026-09-17T11:16:38 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16256?startPos=6345&l=en http://www.senedd.tv/cy/16256?startPos=6345&l=cy 260917-3 3. Rheoliadau Cynrychiolaeth y Bobl (Cofrestru Etholiadol heb Geisiadau) (Diwygio Etholiadol) (Cymru) 2026: Sesiwn dystiolaeth 2 3. The Representation of the People (Electoral Registration without Applications) (Electoral Reform) (Wales) Regulations 2026: Evidence session 2 C 10609 Clare Sim Sim, Clare I think, as we said, in terms of delivering this, to not have a knock-on consequence in terms of local government elections, you need to have anybody who needs to be added to the register guaranteed to be on the notice of alteration that is published in March, to allow people to know how many electors are in each ward and the ballot paper requirements, and not introduce the risk that exists there. So, it's knowing that everything that falls back from that, that you can send notification letters out by this point and that the software is ready to do the data matching that allows you to do that. I think we're very close even now of knowing that everything is in place to be able to deliver that with confidence. At the moment, there is no ability for anything to slip, and that's worrying. Experience from the pilots is that naturally things slip slightly, but while we're still doing this, to expect someone to implement it before the local government elections next year is definitely a scary prospect, I think, that a lot of administrators are finding themselves facing. 16256 7 2026-09-17T09:31:35 769967 139 En 2026-09-17T11:17:36 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16256?startPos=6403&l=en http://www.senedd.tv/cy/16256?startPos=6403&l=cy 260917-3 3. Rheoliadau Cynrychiolaeth y Bobl (Cofrestru Etholiadol heb Geisiadau) (Diwygio Etholiadol) (Cymru) 2026: Sesiwn dystiolaeth 2 3. The Representation of the People (Electoral Registration without Applications) (Electoral Reform) (Wales) Regulations 2026: Evidence session 2 C 12463 Sandra Matthews Matthews, Sandra I would concur, in the sense that I feel quite lucky and probably quite smug because we were a pilot area, and therefore I have a greater knowledge and understanding about the process. I would say it is possible. Electoral services teams, if any, will pull it off because we do—we get a snap general election, it gets delivered. However, as I said, it would be remiss of me if I don't relay the concerns of my colleagues who feel generally quite overwhelmed at the moment, and probably, I think it's fair to say, perhaps unprepared for this with everything else, as Clare's mentioned. In the next few weeks, there'll be a lot of training, a lot of raising awareness, and perhaps they haven't engaged as they should have because they've been so busy with the Senedd elections, by-elections, the annual electoral registration canvas, that it's not been something that has been on their horizon or 'We didn't know if it was going to happen or not.' So, it is possible. As all things, if the right resources are there, we will turn it around, but it's obviously now at risk. 16256 7 2026-09-17T09:31:35 769973 140 En 2026-09-17T11:18:43 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16256?startPos=6470&l=en http://www.senedd.tv/cy/16256?startPos=6470&l=cy 260917-3 3. Rheoliadau Cynrychiolaeth y Bobl (Cofrestru Etholiadol heb Geisiadau) (Diwygio Etholiadol) (Cymru) 2026: Sesiwn dystiolaeth 2 3. The Representation of the People (Electoral Registration without Applications) (Electoral Reform) (Wales) Regulations 2026: Evidence session 2 C 12172 12172 Rebeca Phillips AS https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12172 https://busnes.senedd.cymru/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12172 Phillips, Rebaca Thank you very much. Diolch.  16256 7 2026-09-17T09:31:35 769975 141 En 2026-09-17T11:18:45 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16256?startPos=6472&l=en http://www.senedd.tv/cy/16256?startPos=6472&l=cy 260917-3 3. Rheoliadau Cynrychiolaeth y Bobl (Cofrestru Etholiadol heb Geisiadau) (Diwygio Etholiadol) (Cymru) 2026: Sesiwn dystiolaeth 2 3. The Representation of the People (Electoral Registration without Applications) (Electoral Reform) (Wales) Regulations 2026: Evidence session 2 C 12152 12152 Carmelo Colasanto AS https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12152 https://busnes.senedd.cymru/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12152 Colasanto, Carmelo Okay, Rebeca?  16256 7 2026-09-17T09:31:35 769976 142 En 2026-09-17T11:18:46 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16256?startPos=6473&l=en http://www.senedd.tv/cy/16256?startPos=6473&l=cy 260917-3 3. Rheoliadau Cynrychiolaeth y Bobl (Cofrestru Etholiadol heb Geisiadau) (Diwygio Etholiadol) (Cymru) 2026: Sesiwn dystiolaeth 2 3. The Representation of the People (Electoral Registration without Applications) (Electoral Reform) (Wales) Regulations 2026: Evidence session 2 C 12172 12172 Rebeca Phillips AS https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12172 https://busnes.senedd.cymru/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12172 Phillips, Rebaca Yes, thank you.  16256 7 2026-09-17T09:31:35 769978 143 En 2026-09-17T11:18:46 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16256?startPos=6473&l=en http://www.senedd.tv/cy/16256?startPos=6473&l=cy 260917-3 3. Rheoliadau Cynrychiolaeth y Bobl (Cofrestru Etholiadol heb Geisiadau) (Diwygio Etholiadol) (Cymru) 2026: Sesiwn dystiolaeth 2 3. The Representation of the People (Electoral Registration without Applications) (Electoral Reform) (Wales) Regulations 2026: Evidence session 2 C 12152 12152 Carmelo Colasanto AS https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12152 https://busnes.senedd.cymru/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12152 Colasanto, Carmelo Thank you. Peter, you've got a question.  16256 7 2026-09-17T09:31:35 769979 144 En 2026-09-17T11:18:48 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16256?startPos=6475&l=en http://www.senedd.tv/cy/16256?startPos=6475&l=cy 260917-3 3. Rheoliadau Cynrychiolaeth y Bobl (Cofrestru Etholiadol heb Geisiadau) (Diwygio Etholiadol) (Cymru) 2026: Sesiwn dystiolaeth 2 3. The Representation of the People (Electoral Registration without Applications) (Electoral Reform) (Wales) Regulations 2026: Evidence session 2 C 4787 4787 Peter Fox AS https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=4787 https://busnes.senedd.cymru/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=4787 Fox, Peter I suppose I have some anxieties that there'll be some authorities that—. I'm thinking of my old authority, Monmouthshire: a very small election team, and you couldn't pick a worse set of elections to get it prepared for. If it was preparing for a Senedd election or a general election, it would be so much easier, wouldn't it? But you've got so many candidates to sort out, so many people to get on board, there's a lot of pressure on those teams as well. I'm a bit anxious, for a start, about where the additional staff are coming from. What skills do they need? How long will it take for them to be trained? That's probably quite quick, I would imagine, but I don't know. But all of those things that we talked about in the challenges that you had in Powys, can we really gear up to do it? Or is there even an opportunity where you can partially do it? So, you're doing some of it, and you've just got to accept you're only going to get so far on it. So, you bring so many people on, but that's better than none, and then you sort of build on it. I mean, is there a hybrid? Does it have to be that you do it or you don't do it, or can it be organic? 16256 7 2026-09-17T09:31:35 770082 145 En 2026-09-17T11:20:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16256?startPos=6547&l=en http://www.senedd.tv/cy/16256?startPos=6547&l=cy 260917-3 3. Rheoliadau Cynrychiolaeth y Bobl (Cofrestru Etholiadol heb Geisiadau) (Diwygio Etholiadol) (Cymru) 2026: Sesiwn dystiolaeth 2 3. The Representation of the People (Electoral Registration without Applications) (Electoral Reform) (Wales) Regulations 2026: Evidence session 2 C 16256 7 2026-09-17T09:31:35 770083 146 En 2026-09-17T11:20:01 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16256?startPos=6548&l=en http://www.senedd.tv/cy/16256?startPos=6548&l=cy 260917-3 3. Rheoliadau Cynrychiolaeth y Bobl (Cofrestru Etholiadol heb Geisiadau) (Diwygio Etholiadol) (Cymru) 2026: Sesiwn dystiolaeth 2 3. The Representation of the People (Electoral Registration without Applications) (Electoral Reform) (Wales) Regulations 2026: Evidence session 2 C 12463 Sandra Matthews Matthews, Sandra I think, from the experience of the pilots, there are different approaches. I know in Newport, for example, it was another team in the council that completed the data cleansing and the data matching. Something that we've raised at the working groups is that perhaps the ROs need to reach out within their teams, as Ian has mentioned, for wider support from the local authority, so that if those skill sets already exist, as they do probably in the business intelligence and performance teams, perhaps that could be drafted in for that work. I know the Newport experience was probably a lot cleaner in the sense they identified—. I can't remember the exact numbers, but around 1,500 new individuals had been matched with two or more data sets. They discarded all other matches as being inaccurate, and so just moved forward with those, and it seemed a more streamlined process. I think with regard to capacity and timing as well, it will also depend on how many data sets the decision is to use and, as I mentioned, the actual volume in those data sets. So I think it can be managed, and certainly something the Welsh Government was looking at is what other software could be used and brought in. I know there has been some discussion about AI solutions. I tend to be a little bit wary of those, but again, with the right support and the right knowledge, that is also something else that could be considered. I think there are workarounds and other possibilities, even maybe for another local authority that does have that capacity and that skill set to do the work on behalf of a neighbour, for example. We already know that there are confederations of local authorities, maybe in the south, for example. So, it isn't impossible. The recruitment, however, and onboarding of staff—. Local authorities can be difficult, for example, in terms of getting them access to certain software, as we've all experienced, trying to get a member of staff started. People need to start hitting the ground running. That's what I would say needs to happen if all of this is to work. 16256 7 2026-09-17T09:31:35 770257 147 En 2026-09-17T11:22:13 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16256?startPos=6680&l=en http://www.senedd.tv/cy/16256?startPos=6680&l=cy 260917-3 3. Rheoliadau Cynrychiolaeth y Bobl (Cofrestru Etholiadol heb Geisiadau) (Diwygio Etholiadol) (Cymru) 2026: Sesiwn dystiolaeth 2 3. The Representation of the People (Electoral Registration without Applications) (Electoral Reform) (Wales) Regulations 2026: Evidence session 2 C 12462 Ian Bancroft Bancroft, Ian We're talking about 22 local authorities, aren't we, who are all, as you are fully aware, uniquely different, and in essence the ability to manage those risks both in a planned way but also to respond to those risks that the smaller teams bring out. The support that's provided is really critical. It will only be achieved if a whole-council approach is taken in those 22 authorities and particularly in those smaller authorities, which is why that emphasis is needed at the top level of the council. 16256 7 2026-09-17T09:31:35 770262 148 En 2026-09-17T11:22:43 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16256?startPos=6710&l=en http://www.senedd.tv/cy/16256?startPos=6710&l=cy 260917-3 3. Rheoliadau Cynrychiolaeth y Bobl (Cofrestru Etholiadol heb Geisiadau) (Diwygio Etholiadol) (Cymru) 2026: Sesiwn dystiolaeth 2 3. The Representation of the People (Electoral Registration without Applications) (Electoral Reform) (Wales) Regulations 2026: Evidence session 2 C 10609 Clare Sim Sim, Clare I agree totally with what Sandra said. There are lots of individuals within local authorities who've already got the skills for doing the data matching, data mining. Electoral administrators like to think we're jacks of all trades, but in terms of actually providing that expertise and capacity to do the work, again, not to hark back, but it's having enough notice to be able to reconfigure your resources to allow you to do that. Again, we're in a period where I don't know whether you can suddenly change workload as quickly as that with a month's notice. I think there are concerns around that aspect as well in terms of that.  16256 7 2026-09-17T09:31:35 770317 149 En 2026-09-17T11:23:19 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16256?startPos=6746&l=en http://www.senedd.tv/cy/16256?startPos=6746&l=cy 260917-3 3. Rheoliadau Cynrychiolaeth y Bobl (Cofrestru Etholiadol heb Geisiadau) (Diwygio Etholiadol) (Cymru) 2026: Sesiwn dystiolaeth 2 3. The Representation of the People (Electoral Registration without Applications) (Electoral Reform) (Wales) Regulations 2026: Evidence session 2 C 12152 12152 Carmelo Colasanto AS https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12152 https://busnes.senedd.cymru/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12152 Colasanto, Carmelo David, do you want to come in? 16256 7 2026-09-17T09:31:35 770318 150 En 2026-09-17T11:23:21 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16256?startPos=6748&l=en http://www.senedd.tv/cy/16256?startPos=6748&l=cy 260917-3 3. Rheoliadau Cynrychiolaeth y Bobl (Cofrestru Etholiadol heb Geisiadau) (Diwygio Etholiadol) (Cymru) 2026: Sesiwn dystiolaeth 2 3. The Representation of the People (Electoral Registration without Applications) (Electoral Reform) (Wales) Regulations 2026: Evidence session 2 C 12159 12159 David Hughes AS https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12159 https://busnes.senedd.cymru/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12159 Hughes, David Having come from Merthyr, which is the smallest authority involved, I see they're already on a staff of bare bones. They can't get people in because they can't afford to increase their—. In fact, they’re actually getting rid of people. So to bring people into you, and to use other teams to do the data—it's not possible. I can see in Merthyr it wouldn't be possible, to be honest with you. So, I feel—and thank you; you have painted a picture for me—that 2027 is a bit too far, to be honest with you. I think we're going a bit fast. I think that we put a lot on councils who are already stretched and we're expecting them to take another challenge yet again when they’re already too stretched to do the work that they're there to do now. So, that's my point there.  16256 7 2026-09-17T09:31:35 770319 151 En 2026-09-17T11:24:22 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16256?startPos=6809&l=en http://www.senedd.tv/cy/16256?startPos=6809&l=cy 260917-3 3. Rheoliadau Cynrychiolaeth y Bobl (Cofrestru Etholiadol heb Geisiadau) (Diwygio Etholiadol) (Cymru) 2026: Sesiwn dystiolaeth 2 3. The Representation of the People (Electoral Registration without Applications) (Electoral Reform) (Wales) Regulations 2026: Evidence session 2 C 12152 12152 Carmelo Colasanto AS https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12152 https://busnes.senedd.cymru/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12152 Colasanto, Carmelo Thank you, David. Marc, do you want to come in? 16256 7 2026-09-17T09:31:35 770320 152 En 2026-09-17T11:24:26 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16256?startPos=6813&l=en http://www.senedd.tv/cy/16256?startPos=6813&l=cy 260917-3 3. Rheoliadau Cynrychiolaeth y Bobl (Cofrestru Etholiadol heb Geisiadau) (Diwygio Etholiadol) (Cymru) 2026: Sesiwn dystiolaeth 2 3. The Representation of the People (Electoral Registration without Applications) (Electoral Reform) (Wales) Regulations 2026: Evidence session 2 C 350 350 Marc Jones AS https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=350 https://busnes.senedd.cymru/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=350 Jones, Marc I'll put the exact opposite point, I'm afraid. I have also come from a relatively small council, where Ian was the returning officer until earlier this year, and I think what I've seen with returning officers, or electoral registration offices, is they're incredibly resilient. They meet every challenge. I think in ours there were three members of staff, and despite that, they're able to process huge amounts of information and change. The question I have is this: in terms of data sets, are there, for example, two data sets that other councils should be using as a result, rather than scrambling to look at half a dozen? 16256 7 2026-09-17T09:31:35 769958 153 En 2026-09-17T11:25:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16256?startPos=6847&l=en http://www.senedd.tv/cy/16256?startPos=6847&l=cy 260917-3 3. Rheoliadau Cynrychiolaeth y Bobl (Cofrestru Etholiadol heb Geisiadau) (Diwygio Etholiadol) (Cymru) 2026: Sesiwn dystiolaeth 2 3. The Representation of the People (Electoral Registration without Applications) (Electoral Reform) (Wales) Regulations 2026: Evidence session 2 C 16256 7 2026-09-17T09:31:35 769963 154 En 2026-09-17T11:25:16 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16256?startPos=6863&l=en http://www.senedd.tv/cy/16256?startPos=6863&l=cy 260917-3 3. Rheoliadau Cynrychiolaeth y Bobl (Cofrestru Etholiadol heb Geisiadau) (Diwygio Etholiadol) (Cymru) 2026: Sesiwn dystiolaeth 2 3. The Representation of the People (Electoral Registration without Applications) (Electoral Reform) (Wales) Regulations 2026: Evidence session 2 C 12463 Sandra Matthews Matthews, Sandra I think that will vary between local authorities. Council tax is the obvious one. We use housing tenants records, but, for some local authorities, that won't be possible because they're outsourced. So, there are going to be some difficulties. We used adult social care data, which was very good in Powys, because we're a large rural area and take up quite a large portion of Wales. Employee data was very good, because quite a lot of our staff work within the county. That won't be as useful for others in the small urban areas. Sometimes, I think they're going to need to start those discussions and find out what—. I'm not sure if I can recommend, because I don't know the quality of some data sets in other local authorities. But looking at the standard that came across from the pilots, we all used two or three core sets, as I said, like council tax, education records, and it's then looking at what else might be strong within your council, because the EROs have to have faith that the data that they receive is of good enough quality.  16256 7 2026-09-17T09:31:35 769969 155 En 2026-09-17T11:26:25 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16256?startPos=6932&l=en http://www.senedd.tv/cy/16256?startPos=6932&l=cy 260917-3 3. Rheoliadau Cynrychiolaeth y Bobl (Cofrestru Etholiadol heb Geisiadau) (Diwygio Etholiadol) (Cymru) 2026: Sesiwn dystiolaeth 2 3. The Representation of the People (Electoral Registration without Applications) (Electoral Reform) (Wales) Regulations 2026: Evidence session 2 C 10609 Clare Sim Sim, Clare One thing that we have concerns with as well is—. We've been speaking to some electoral services teams in England—one in particular—who have been extensive in data matching and mining for a number of years, which they've done work with. In terms of their evaluation of their data sets within their authorities, they use council tax and they use education. We've talked about physically getting hold of information. Sandra has alluded to those being the two key sets. While you can use your education records and obviously add someone to the register automatically in that sense, without that second data source—. It's actually having the ability to have information that allows you to add those people to the register. I think that's the concern there: the quality of it and the access to it. They can get council tax, but finding that other second data source is going to be, I think, a struggle for a lot of people, based on Sandra's experiences, from their evaluation of their data and from what we know from English local authorities who do data matching. The other thing that they flagged up as well is the checks. With this one local authority in particular, a lot of their other local data sources are verified against the electoral register, and they've said they can't use data that has been verified. Again, as I said, the electoral register is considered one of the most comprehensive and complete data sources, so it's that challenge of making sure that you're not using data that has been verified against your own records. 16256 7 2026-09-17T09:31:35 769981 156 En 2026-09-17T11:27:55 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16256?startPos=7022&l=en http://www.senedd.tv/cy/16256?startPos=7022&l=cy 260917-3 3. Rheoliadau Cynrychiolaeth y Bobl (Cofrestru Etholiadol heb Geisiadau) (Diwygio Etholiadol) (Cymru) 2026: Sesiwn dystiolaeth 2 3. The Representation of the People (Electoral Registration without Applications) (Electoral Reform) (Wales) Regulations 2026: Evidence session 2 C 12005 Mark Pascoe Pascoe, Mark I think as well, if I could add, that should be a key part of any subsequent review as well. Obviously, looking back, once all 22 authorities have been through the process, it gives you an opportunity to look at what worked and what didn't. And again, that's where the EMB could come in with sharing good practice after the fact.  16256 7 2026-09-17T09:31:35 769982 157 En 2026-09-17T11:27:15 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16256?startPos=6982&l=en http://www.senedd.tv/cy/16256?startPos=6982&l=cy 260917-3 3. Rheoliadau Cynrychiolaeth y Bobl (Cofrestru Etholiadol heb Geisiadau) (Diwygio Etholiadol) (Cymru) 2026: Sesiwn dystiolaeth 2 3. The Representation of the People (Electoral Registration without Applications) (Electoral Reform) (Wales) Regulations 2026: Evidence session 2 C 12152 12152 Carmelo Colasanto AS https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12152 https://busnes.senedd.cymru/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12152 Colasanto, Carmelo Thank you. You'll be glad to know there's just one more question left and it's from me. Thank you very much for your time today. I think it touches on something that Clare mentioned about funding. Peter discussed potentially flexing up with staff in terms of getting this over the line. The WLGA has told the committee that the cost and delivery implications for local authorities are not yet fully understood. So, I guess this is a question to all of you: what are your views on the potential cost implications of implementing AVR and how might this vary across the different authorities? 16256 7 2026-09-17T09:31:35 769985 158 En 2026-09-17T11:28:51 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16256?startPos=7078&l=en http://www.senedd.tv/cy/16256?startPos=7078&l=cy 260917-3 3. Rheoliadau Cynrychiolaeth y Bobl (Cofrestru Etholiadol heb Geisiadau) (Diwygio Etholiadol) (Cymru) 2026: Sesiwn dystiolaeth 2 3. The Representation of the People (Electoral Registration without Applications) (Electoral Reform) (Wales) Regulations 2026: Evidence session 2 C 12462 Ian Bancroft Bancroft, Ian I'll start. I'm going to answer in a broad way, as you'd expect, probably, with that strategic overview. I think the real importance with funding is it's not one-off funding and that that funding is put into budgets and ring-fenced for this activity on an ongoing basis. I think what we've seen so far is a response from the Welsh Government to support one-off related costs up to the 2027 election, but I think the real risk is that that isn't ongoing. So, I think that's the big strategic point we would want to get across. 16256 7 2026-09-17T09:31:35 769986 159 En 2026-09-17T11:29:25 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16256?startPos=7112&l=en http://www.senedd.tv/cy/16256?startPos=7112&l=cy 260917-3 3. Rheoliadau Cynrychiolaeth y Bobl (Cofrestru Etholiadol heb Geisiadau) (Diwygio Etholiadol) (Cymru) 2026: Sesiwn dystiolaeth 2 3. The Representation of the People (Electoral Registration without Applications) (Electoral Reform) (Wales) Regulations 2026: Evidence session 2 C 10609 Clare Sim Sim, Clare I think that most authorities who received their grant funding letters for the initial process for it on 3 September have probably got sufficient funding for this year. But, as Ian said, it's knowing what challenges may arise out of things and then the ongoing funding. As I said, it's not just delivery here, it's what software development needs to continue to develop—we feel like what's being delivered this time is probably a minimum viable product. But it's looking at how you advance the way that you move from manual verification processes of data, how to continue to expand on those to bring capacity to electoral services teams. I think as well it's the unintended consequences in terms of costs that automatic voter registration brings. As Sandra said, their pilot identified 12,000 electors that weren't on the register, but they didn't have enough data to automatically register them. The system that exists within the UK means that, once you've identified somebody, you need to send an invitation to register within 28 days, you then need to send two follow-ups and potentially door-knock those properties. It's those costs as well. While, obviously, it's the electoral registration officer's duty to look for people and get them on the register, it's the scale at which automatic voter registration builds that picture, and that's going to be an ongoing cost throughout time as well. I think it's also the knock-on consequences for the annual canvass proces. Because this is being done just on the local government register and does not affect the parliamentary register, it prevents you using the more cost-effective routes that the canvass offers you. Most properties now go down route 1, which doesn't require a response to that sort of communication. When you've got an automatically registered person and you don't know whether or not they can be registered for the parliamentary register if they haven't actively gone and registered themselves for that, it then leads to them having to go down route 2, which requires a response, which requires a chasing cycle. So again, it's the knock-on consequences of funding and different electoral registration processes throughout the year, which also requires funding, as well as the ongoing support and maintenance for delivering automatic voter registration. 16256 7 2026-09-17T09:31:35 769959 160 En 2026-09-17T11:30:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16256?startPos=7147&l=en http://www.senedd.tv/cy/16256?startPos=7147&l=cy 260917-3 3. Rheoliadau Cynrychiolaeth y Bobl (Cofrestru Etholiadol heb Geisiadau) (Diwygio Etholiadol) (Cymru) 2026: Sesiwn dystiolaeth 2 3. The Representation of the People (Electoral Registration without Applications) (Electoral Reform) (Wales) Regulations 2026: Evidence session 2 C 16256 7 2026-09-17T09:31:35 769989 161 En 2026-09-17T11:32:19 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16256?startPos=7286&l=en http://www.senedd.tv/cy/16256?startPos=7286&l=cy 260917-3 3. Rheoliadau Cynrychiolaeth y Bobl (Cofrestru Etholiadol heb Geisiadau) (Diwygio Etholiadol) (Cymru) 2026: Sesiwn dystiolaeth 2 3. The Representation of the People (Electoral Registration without Applications) (Electoral Reform) (Wales) Regulations 2026: Evidence session 2 C 16256 7 2026-09-17T09:31:35 769990 162 En 2026-09-17T11:34:41 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16256?startPos=7428&l=en http://www.senedd.tv/cy/16256?startPos=7428&l=cy 260917-3 3. Rheoliadau Cynrychiolaeth y Bobl (Cofrestru Etholiadol heb Geisiadau) (Diwygio Etholiadol) (Cymru) 2026: Sesiwn dystiolaeth 2 3. The Representation of the People (Electoral Registration without Applications) (Electoral Reform) (Wales) Regulations 2026: Evidence session 2 C 16256 7 2026-09-17T09:31:35 769974 163 En 2026-09-17T11:31:28 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16256?startPos=7235&l=en http://www.senedd.tv/cy/16256?startPos=7235&l=cy 260917-3 3. Rheoliadau Cynrychiolaeth y Bobl (Cofrestru Etholiadol heb Geisiadau) (Diwygio Etholiadol) (Cymru) 2026: Sesiwn dystiolaeth 2 3. The Representation of the People (Electoral Registration without Applications) (Electoral Reform) (Wales) Regulations 2026: Evidence session 2 C 12462 Ian Bancroft Bancroft, Ian If it's okay just to come back, I think I would also pick up, in light of that, that obviously it's a policy decision for the Senedd and the UK Government whether they take different approaches to AVR, and obviously the UK Government are going through that debate at the moment. That's another area where, if there is a divergence, clearly, cost and time increases. So it's just important to be aware of that. 16256 7 2026-09-17T09:31:35 769977 164 En 2026-09-17T11:31:53 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16256?startPos=7260&l=en http://www.senedd.tv/cy/16256?startPos=7260&l=cy 260917-3 3. Rheoliadau Cynrychiolaeth y Bobl (Cofrestru Etholiadol heb Geisiadau) (Diwygio Etholiadol) (Cymru) 2026: Sesiwn dystiolaeth 2 3. The Representation of the People (Electoral Registration without Applications) (Electoral Reform) (Wales) Regulations 2026: Evidence session 2 C 12152 12152 Carmelo Colasanto AS https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12152 https://busnes.senedd.cymru/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12152 Colasanto, Carmelo I think that's one of the—not concerns, but one of the thoughts I had in my head. We're discussing funding, we're asking all these local authorities to meet that challenge that we're going to place in front of them, and I'm sure there will be evolution of this system. Has that potential additional expenditure been considered by anybody? 16256 7 2026-09-17T09:31:35 769980 165 En 2026-09-17T11:32:16 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16256?startPos=7283&l=en http://www.senedd.tv/cy/16256?startPos=7283&l=cy 260917-3 3. Rheoliadau Cynrychiolaeth y Bobl (Cofrestru Etholiadol heb Geisiadau) (Diwygio Etholiadol) (Cymru) 2026: Sesiwn dystiolaeth 2 3. The Representation of the People (Electoral Registration without Applications) (Electoral Reform) (Wales) Regulations 2026: Evidence session 2 C 10609 Clare Sim Sim, Clare I don't know the answer to that question, but knowing that the UK Government have got direct registration and direct alteration principles and are looking to pilot in the very near future as well, the system will look different to what is being proposed by the Welsh Government currently. And as Ian said, there will then be this sort of friction, potentially, that that system introduces national data sets into the equation, which then changes fundamentally what that means. If you're looking then to pilot the UK system within Wales, then you've got this dual process that butts heads a little bit in terms of that. I take Ian's point completely that each Government has its own legislative capacity to decide what is best, but given that UK Government are also looking at this, there are definitely benefits to looking at how the two systems integrate better together before proceeding with implementation. 16256 7 2026-09-17T09:31:35 769984 166 En 2026-09-17T11:33:09 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16256?startPos=7336&l=en http://www.senedd.tv/cy/16256?startPos=7336&l=cy 260917-3 3. Rheoliadau Cynrychiolaeth y Bobl (Cofrestru Etholiadol heb Geisiadau) (Diwygio Etholiadol) (Cymru) 2026: Sesiwn dystiolaeth 2 3. The Representation of the People (Electoral Registration without Applications) (Electoral Reform) (Wales) Regulations 2026: Evidence session 2 C 12463 Sandra Matthews Matthews, Sandra I'd also like to add support to Ian's point, because it is a concern that's been raised by my colleagues: that we will recruit new staff to do this process, but if the funding dries up after March or that our local councils don't prioritise it because it's not ring-fenced to us, those staff will leave and so will those skills, that knowledge, and this will be a recurring process where we will lose that skill set. There's a huge resource taken to train people up, to onboard them. So, I would support Ian's point that this is one of the concerns: it will take an awful lot of time to get them recruited, to get them trained up and skilled and knowledgeable about the process, and hopefully support us into the local elections next year, and we'll potentially lose them if we can't get that funding based in the teams. If there is divergence, or whatever decision is made in the future, we want to have those skills in the team to be able to react to whatever decision each Government makes. 16256 7 2026-09-17T09:31:35 769987 167 En 2026-09-17T11:34:17 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16256?startPos=7404&l=en http://www.senedd.tv/cy/16256?startPos=7404&l=cy 260917-3 3. Rheoliadau Cynrychiolaeth y Bobl (Cofrestru Etholiadol heb Geisiadau) (Diwygio Etholiadol) (Cymru) 2026: Sesiwn dystiolaeth 2 3. The Representation of the People (Electoral Registration without Applications) (Electoral Reform) (Wales) Regulations 2026: Evidence session 2 C 12152 12152 Carmelo Colasanto AS https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12152 https://busnes.senedd.cymru/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12152 Colasanto, Carmelo Are there any more questions from anyone? No. On behalf of the committee, I'd like to thank you all for coming here today. It's been challenging, giving evidence and taking questions from the floor. We will send out to you the record of today's meeting so that you can ensure that we've captured that discussion accurately. Again, thank you very much. 16256 7 2026-09-17T09:31:35 769992 168 En 2026-09-17T11:35:11 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16256?startPos=7458&l=en http://www.senedd.tv/cy/16256?startPos=7458&l=cy 260917-4 4. Papurau i’w nodi 4. Papers to note C 12152 12152 Carmelo Colasanto AS https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12152 https://busnes.senedd.cymru/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12152 Colasanto, Carmelo We move on to item 4, to formally note the papers. There are four papers: 8, 9, 10 and 11. I'm assuming everybody has had them. They're listed in the packs. Is everybody content with the papers, or do you want to have a discussion, which we will do in private, if there's anything? 16256 7 2026-09-17T09:31:35 769994 169 En 2026-09-17T11:35:29 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16256?startPos=7476&l=en http://www.senedd.tv/cy/16256?startPos=7476&l=cy 260917-4 4. Papurau i’w nodi 4. Papers to note C 4787 4787 Peter Fox AS https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=4787 https://busnes.senedd.cymru/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=4787 Fox, Peter Yes. Move. 16256 7 2026-09-17T09:31:35 769996 170 En 2026-09-17T11:35:30 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16256?startPos=7477&l=en http://www.senedd.tv/cy/16256?startPos=7477&l=cy 260917-4 4. Papurau i’w nodi 4. Papers to note C 12152 12152 Carmelo Colasanto AS https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12152 https://busnes.senedd.cymru/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12152 Colasanto, Carmelo Okay.  16256 7 2026-09-17T09:31:35 769999 171 Cy 260917-5 5. Cynnig o dan Reol Sefydlog Rhif 17.42(ix) i benderfynu gwahardd y cyhoedd o weddill y cyfarfod 5. Motion under Standing Order 17.42(ix) to resolve to exclude the public from the remainder of this meeting I Cynnig: bod y pwyllgor yn penderfynu gwahardd y cyhoedd o weddill y cyfarfod yn unol â Rheol Sefydlog 17.42(ix). Motion: that the committee resolves to exclude the public from the remainder of the meeting in accordance with Standing Order 17.42(ix). 16256 7 2026-09-17T09:31:35 770000 172 Cy 260917-5 5. Cynnig o dan Reol Sefydlog Rhif 17.42(ix) i benderfynu gwahardd y cyhoedd o weddill y cyfarfod 5. Motion under Standing Order 17.42(ix) to resolve to exclude the public from the remainder of this meeting I Cynigiwyd y cynnig. Motion moved. 16256 7 2026-09-17T09:31:35 770001 173 En 2026-09-17T11:35:37 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16256?startPos=7484&l=en http://www.senedd.tv/cy/16256?startPos=7484&l=cy 260917-5 5. Cynnig o dan Reol Sefydlog Rhif 17.42(ix) i benderfynu gwahardd y cyhoedd o weddill y cyfarfod 5. Motion under Standing Order 17.42(ix) to resolve to exclude the public from the remainder of this meeting C 12152 12152 Carmelo Colasanto AS https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12152 https://busnes.senedd.cymru/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12152 Colasanto, Carmelo We move on to item 5, a motion under Standing Order 17.42 to resolve to exclude the public from the remainder of the meeting. Can we—? 16256 7 2026-09-17T09:31:35 770006 174 En 2026-09-17T11:35:46 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16256?startPos=7493&l=en http://www.senedd.tv/cy/16256?startPos=7493&l=cy 260917-5 5. Cynnig o dan Reol Sefydlog Rhif 17.42(ix) i benderfynu gwahardd y cyhoedd o weddill y cyfarfod 5. Motion under Standing Order 17.42(ix) to resolve to exclude the public from the remainder of this meeting C 4787 4787 Peter Fox AS https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=4787 https://busnes.senedd.cymru/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=4787 Fox, Peter Move. 16256 7 2026-09-17T09:31:35 770007 175 En 2026-09-17T11:35:47 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16256?startPos=7494&l=en http://www.senedd.tv/cy/16256?startPos=7494&l=cy 260917-5 5. Cynnig o dan Reol Sefydlog Rhif 17.42(ix) i benderfynu gwahardd y cyhoedd o weddill y cyfarfod 5. Motion under Standing Order 17.42(ix) to resolve to exclude the public from the remainder of this meeting C 12152 12152 Carmelo Colasanto AS https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12152 https://busnes.senedd.cymru/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12152 Colasanto, Carmelo Good, yes. 16256 7 2026-09-17T09:31:35 770002 176 Cy 260917-5 5. Cynnig o dan Reol Sefydlog Rhif 17.42(ix) i benderfynu gwahardd y cyhoedd o weddill y cyfarfod 5. Motion under Standing Order 17.42(ix) to resolve to exclude the public from the remainder of this meeting I Derbyniwyd y cynnig. Daeth rhan gyhoeddus y cyfarfod i ben am 11:35. Motion agreed. The public part of the meeting ended at 11:35.