16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767455 0 Cy 2026-07-14T00:00:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=-48598&l=en 260714-0 C 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 768512 1 Cy 260714-0 I In the bilingual version, the left-hand column includes the language used during the meeting. The right-hand column includes a translation of those speeches. [R] indicates that the Member has declared an interest when tabling the business. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767456 2 Cy 260714-0 I The Senedd met in the Chamber and by video-conference at 13:30 with the Llywydd (Huw Irranca-Davies) in the Chair. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767458 3 Cy 2026-07-14T13:30:01 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=3&l=en 260714-1 Statement by the Llywydd C 5053 5053 Huw Irranca-Davies https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=5053 Llywydd Irranca-Davies, Huw Good afternoon, everybody. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767461 4 En 2026-07-14T13:30:02 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=4&l=en 260714-1 Statement by the Llywydd C 5053 5053 Huw Irranca-Davies https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=5053 Llywydd Irranca-Davies, Huw Good afternoon, everybody. We will make a start. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767464 5 Cy 2026-07-14T13:30:06 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=8&l=en 260714-1 Statement by the Llywydd C 5053 5053 Huw Irranca-Davies https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=5053 Llywydd Irranca-Davies, Huw Let's make a start. I would first of all like to inform Members that, in accordance with Standing Order 26.87, I have established and published the timetable for the Member Bill ballots for the seventh Senedd. Two ballots will be held, the first on Wednesday 14 October and the second on Wednesday 7 July 2027. The process for Member Bill ballots is new for the seventh Senedd. For the first time, these will be name-only ballots. Further detail about the ballots, together with information about the training that will be available on the Member Bill process, will be issued to all Members this week. Thank you. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767470 6 Cy 2026-07-14T13:31:13 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=75&l=en 260714-2 1. Questions to the First Minister C 5053 5053 Huw Irranca-Davies https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=5053 Llywydd Irranca-Davies, Huw Now, we will move on to item 1, questions to the First Minister. The first question is from Cai Parry-Jones. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767471 7 Cy 260714-2 1. Questions to the First Minister B Cost Savings 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767472 8 Cy 260714-2 1. Questions to the First Minister O 12174 12174 Cai Parry-Jones https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12174 Parry-Jones, Cai 1. Has the Welsh Government made any tangible cost savings in any department during this Senedd so far? OQ64428 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767473 9 En 2026-07-14T13:31:29 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=91&l=en 260714-2 1. Questions to the First Minister C 2717 2717 Rhun ap Iorwerth https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=2717 First Minister of Wales ap Iorwerth, Rhun Llywydd, our job is to make every £1 work as hard as possible for the people of Wales. That means focusing resources on the priorities that matter most to people and delivering the commitments we were elected to deliver. We're reviewing spending across Government to ensure resources are directed where they can make the biggest difference, whether that's cutting waiting lists, tackling child poverty or strengthening our economy. Alongside this, we will continue to press Westminster, of course, for the fair funding that Wales deserves. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767479 10 En 2026-07-14T13:31:58 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=120&l=en 260714-2 1. Questions to the First Minister C 12174 12174 Cai Parry-Jones https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12174 Parry-Jones, Cai I'll take that as a 'no'. A key component of the Welsh Government's administrative spend is the estate it owns and manages. According to the most recent and cutely named 'State of the Estate' report, published in April, we see that the Welsh Government has around 70,000 sq m of estate at a cost of nearly £20 million a year. Seventy thousand square metres of estate is exactly the same as the 2020 target produced pre COVID and before the boom in home working. We also learnt from the latest report, quote: 'Most Staff continued to work remotely'. First Minister, smarter management of the estate could save over £10 million a year. My question is: why is the Welsh Government not making these obvious efficiencies? 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767491 11 En 2026-07-14T13:32:45 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=167&l=en 260714-2 1. Questions to the First Minister C 2717 2717 Rhun ap Iorwerth https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=2717 First Minister of Wales ap Iorwerth, Rhun I know the Member comes from the position of begrudgingly having even a square foot of estate in Wales looking after the interests of the people of Wales. But, I'll tell you what, this Government is a Government that believes in using the resources that we have wisely. We can look at it in terms of square footage or we can look at it in terms of people. What I want to do is make the most of the people that we have, whether that's working in the civil service, whether it's working across public sector, in health and education and in everything this Government does—including encouraging people to get the right balance between remote working and working in the office. We will do our utmost to make, as I say, the best use of every single £1. In that context, maybe he should take my original answer as a 'yes'. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767493 12 En 2026-07-14T13:33:34 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=216&l=en 260714-2 1. Questions to the First Minister C 12178 12178 Anna Nicholl https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12178 Nicholl, Anna Yesterday, the Public Accounts and Public Administration Committee took evidence from Adrian Crompton, the outgoing Auditor General for Wales. In his evidence, he was clear that value for money is not just about spending less, it's about making the money we do have work better. If we are to address the real challenges facing our communities today, what we need to focus on is better Government, driven by a new leadership. I'm delighted that this is already a core commitment of this Government and something it's getting started on quickly in its first 100 days. Will the First Minister assure us that his Government will maintain a relentless focus on improving outcomes for people and making the best use of the resources that Government does have? 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767499 13 En 2026-07-14T13:34:18 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=260&l=en 260714-2 1. Questions to the First Minister C 2717 2717 Rhun ap Iorwerth https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=2717 First Minister of Wales ap Iorwerth, Rhun We've made it clear that it's all about outcomes, it's all about looking at how the decisions that we take as a Government impact positively on the lives of the people of Wales. I absolutely agree that good Government isn't about chasing short-term savings, if you like. Though we make every £1 work hard, it is about making every £1 deliver better outcomes for the people of Wales. It's why we're reforming how public services are delivered. That stronger focus on prevention is one that comes to mind immediately—how we can spend money now on stopping some of those problems in health occurring later down the line. It's why the target has been put in place by the enterprise Minister on halving the productivity gap and making the investment now in ensuring that we strengthen the economy in that way. It is all about good Government, with long-term positive outcomes for the people of Wales. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767459 14 En 2026-07-14T13:35:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=302&l=en 260714-2 1. Questions to the First Minister C 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767463 15 En 2026-07-14T13:35:11 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=313&l=en 260714-2 1. Questions to the First Minister C 12156 12156 Huw Thomas https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12156 Thomas, Huw Diolch, Brif Weinidog. One of the key challenges of Government is to manage in-year spend and in-year overspends. You will know, First Minister, that local government is bound by law that they have to balance their books within year. That doesn't go for other governmental departments. Do you accept the principle that all Government departments should manage their budgets to the agreed budgets, or, if not, can you outline what in-year overspends you are prepared to accept this year? 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767467 16 En 2026-07-14T13:35:43 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=345&l=en 260714-2 1. Questions to the First Minister C 2717 2717 Rhun ap Iorwerth https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=2717 First Minister of Wales ap Iorwerth, Rhun The Member will imagine, I'm sure—and he'd imagine correctly—that this is a Government coming into power that is determined to look afresh at all the budgets that we have, to make sure they are aligned with our priorities, that money is being spent well, with outcomes at the heart of everything that we do. It's not the case that our Government departments can have overspends as such. There are elements of the public service, we know, where there are significant in-year pressures—health being one of those—and this Government has indeed inherited hundreds of millions of pounds of in-year pressures in the health service as a result of the mismanagement of health by previous Labour health Ministers. That's something that doesn't stop us from getting to grips with the challenge now in improving public services, but that is the reality, and everything we do is about making sure that our public funding is dealt with in a prudent way, to deliver the best outcomes for the people of Wales. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767476 17 En 2026-07-14T13:36:51 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=413&l=en 260714-2 1. Questions to the First Minister C 143 143 Andrew R.T. Davies https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=143 Davies, Andrew R.T. First Minister, one of the inquiries that the Economy, Trade and Rural Affairs Committee undertook at the end of the last Senedd term was to look at the Global Centre of Rail Excellence. It was made clear to us that an incoming Government would have to make a critical decision over whether it was going to back this particular venture, and the tag price on that was some £400 million. No small change in the back of the sofa for that, I would suggest. Has the Government had a chance to formulate a view on the future funding requirements for the Global Centre of Rail Excellence, and, if you have, when will you be bringing a statement forward so that we know what the commitment will be, going forward? 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767481 18 En 2026-07-14T13:37:31 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=453&l=en 260714-2 1. Questions to the First Minister C 2717 2717 Rhun ap Iorwerth https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=2717 First Minister of Wales ap Iorwerth, Rhun The Member is right to point to this as being something that can offer opportunities in terms of the Welsh economy, but he's also right to point out that there are significant expenditure commitments that would need to be made in order to get to that point. The Government has not yet come to a decision around that. That is a consideration that will be ongoing, and I'm unable to give a date on that. As the Member will be aware, there are many, many funding considerations that the Government is grappling with in these early weeks. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767486 19 Cy 260714-2 1. Questions to the First Minister B Waiting Times 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767487 20 Cy 260714-2 1. Questions to the First Minister O 5113 5113 Nigel Williams https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=5113 Williams, Nigel 2. What action is the Welsh Government taking to reduce waiting times for out-patient appointments and surgery for patients in Flintshire and Wrexham? OQ64369 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767488 21 En 2026-07-14T13:38:18 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=500&l=en 260714-2 1. Questions to the First Minister C 2717 2717 Rhun ap Iorwerth https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=2717 First Minister of Wales ap Iorwerth, Rhun We announced an additional £145 million to support a clinically led approach to focus on delivering a sustainable solution to reducing waiting times and driving pathway transformation. We've set up an expert panel to look at the development of surgical hubs and are commissioning an independent review of performance and the impact waiting has on patients. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767492 22 En 2026-07-14T13:38:40 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=522&l=en 260714-2 1. Questions to the First Minister C 5113 5113 Nigel Williams https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=5113 Williams, Nigel Well, that doesn't help me, I'm afraid, First Minister. I've got a letter for an appointment here, actually, for myself personally, which was written a year ago, which tells me that I've been placed on an out-patient waiting list in Betsi Cadwaladr trust, and that I'd be contacted as soon as possible, and I've heard nothing since. I've also been told by someone else that they've been waiting three years—three years—for gallbladder surgery, and they've heard nothing since whatsoever. I could be dead by now. What are you actually doing, and what can you do for my constituent, so they can realistically expect to receive the appointment and treatment they've been waiting so long for? Diolch. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767497 23 En 2026-07-14T13:39:21 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=563&l=en 260714-2 1. Questions to the First Minister C 2717 2717 Rhun ap Iorwerth https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=2717 First Minister of Wales ap Iorwerth, Rhun I'm grateful for the question. I would respectfully ask the Member to reflect on the code of conduct on pursuing our own particular cases within the Welsh Parliament. But, of course, it is right that we all represent people who have been waiting a very long time on waiting lists. It is the length of waiting lists in terms of numbers and it is the length of time that people are waiting on them that have led this Government to conclude, even before we came into Government, that this was a priority. It's why we prioritised in the last budget, for 2026-27, the need to invest in the NHS now. It's why decisions have been made through the supplementary budget, which we hope can be passed today, in order to spend on bringing down waiting times and making the system sustainable, because it is unacceptable. Wherever people are—and that, of course, includes people here in this Siambr who are on waiting lists—it's not acceptable that we believe this to be normal, and that is why we are placing the utmost seriousness on the work of working with health boards, making the investment, having those performance reviews so that we can build a sustainable NHS and care system for the future. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767460 24 En 2026-07-14T13:40:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=602&l=en 260714-2 1. Questions to the First Minister C 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767465 25 En 2026-07-14T13:40:34 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=636&l=en 260714-2 1. Questions to the First Minister C 5053 5053 Huw Irranca-Davies https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=5053 Llywydd Irranca-Davies, Huw Brif Weinidog, diolch. And as you've raised Standing Orders, I'm sure the Member who spoke was speaking on behalf of his constituents as well, whilst drawing on a personal experience. But, just to clarify, indeed, speaking on behalf of constituents is our imperative here. Carrie Harper. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767466 26 En 2026-07-14T13:40:55 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=657&l=en 260714-2 1. Questions to the First Minister C 278 278 Carrie Harper https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=278 Harper, Carrie Diolch, Lywydd. The issue of parking at the Maelor hospital in Wrexham is raised with us time and time again, and some residents have told us that they've arrived sometimes up to three hours before an appointment just to find a parking space. And that will be contributing to the 27,000 missed appointments at the Maelor last year. We've raised that repeatedly with the health board, alongside other local Members as well, the council and residents, too, yet there are still no concrete plans to tackle the problem. My own mother is currently undergoing cancer treatment, so I've seen first-hand the extra stress that that causes for people who are already worried about their health. I welcome the Government's commitment in the supplementary budget to boost funding for the NHS, and I also hope that this budget passes to allow that support to happen. First Minister, do you agree that accessing healthcare should begin at the hospital entrance and not with a queue for a parking space? And what discussions is the Welsh Government having with Betsi Cadwaladr to ensure that this long-running problem is finally treated as a priority? 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767475 27 En 2026-07-14T13:41:56 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=718&l=en 260714-2 1. Questions to the First Minister C 2717 2717 Rhun ap Iorwerth https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=2717 First Minister of Wales ap Iorwerth, Rhun Well, I certainly agree that access to healthcare should not begin with anxiety about finding a parking space, and it is something that far too many people face. Betsi Cadwaladr University Health Board is responsible for the operation and management of parking across its estate. Welsh Government guidance sets out the principles and best practice that health boards should apply when managing car parking at hospital sites. The health board recognises the parking pressures at Wrexham Maelor Hospital in particular, and I understand that it's considering practical operational and management options to improve access for patients, visitors and staff, keeping emergency routes clear as well, which is very, very important. It's one of those elements on which my health Minister is eager to see improvement, wherever that might be in Wales.  16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767482 28 En 2026-07-14T13:42:48 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=770&l=en 260714-2 1. Questions to the First Minister C 8734 8734 Sam Rowlands https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=8734 Rowlands, Sam First Minister, Nigel Williams, the Member, was absolutely right to raise concerns about constituents waiting far too long for planned procedures, surgeries on waiting lists in Fflint Wrecsam. One particular area that I believe requires some extra focus, ironically, is that of cataract operations. People are having to wait two years or more for cataract operations. You'll appreciate, First Minister, during that time, that it can be debilitating for people, especially if they need to drive, in rural areas of my constituency of Fflint Wrecsam, when they're waiting for years for what is actually quite a simple procedure in the grand scheme of things. People who live just over the border in Cheshire are waiting six weeks for exactly the same operation to take place. It strikes me that there's an issue there with the commissioning of services, which could make a big difference to accelerating people's waits when it comes to cataract operations. So, would you look at that, First Minister, to see where, specifically, cataract operations can be accelerated to ensure that those thousands of people who are waiting currently no longer have to wait without being able to see properly? 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767494 29 En 2026-07-14T13:43:51 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=833&l=en 260714-2 1. Questions to the First Minister C 2717 2717 Rhun ap Iorwerth https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=2717 First Minister of Wales ap Iorwerth, Rhun As the Minister points out, that is something that the Government is doing. We know that, when it comes to the eyes, it is particularly important to pursue treatment as quickly as possible. It was one of those elements during COVID, I remember, when people were facing delays in accessing care because of COVID restrictions, and that was putting eyesight at risk. It's something that the Government is very, very aware of. It's one of those areas that's very much in mind when we look forward to continuing the performance review and putting in that sustainability, which will help across the NHS in time.  16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767501 30 Cy 260714-2 1. Questions to the First Minister B Questions Without Notice from the Party Leaders 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767500 31 Cy 2026-07-14T13:44:29 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=871&l=en 260714-2 1. Questions to the First Minister C 5053 5053 Huw Irranca-Davies https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=5053 Llywydd Irranca-Davies, Huw I now call on the party leaders to question the First Minister. First, the leader of Reform UK, Dan Thomas.  16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767504 32 En 2026-07-14T13:44:37 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=879&l=en 260714-2 1. Questions to the First Minister C 12147 12147 Dan Thomas https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12147 Leader of the Opposition Thomas, Dan Thank you, Llywydd. Continuing with the theme of the NHS, in this last week before recess I would like to get to the bottom of when two-year waits on the NHS will be eradicated, because thousands of people across Wales are still waiting, in pain and discomfort, for far too long. Now, during the election campaign, the First Minister said that two-year waits would be eradicated within a matter of months, and then his new health Minister said that they would be eradicated by the end of the four-year term. I then asked the First Minister who was right and, in a very long-winded answer, he said that he was. But then, just a couple of weeks ago, his finance Minister, on BBC Walescast, said that two-year waits would be gone in 12 months, so, in other words, a year. Now, a year is a lot longer than a matter of months. So, can the First Minister finally give us some more detail: by which month will two-year waits be finally eradicated in Wales, as they are in England? 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767462 33 En 2026-07-14T13:45:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=902&l=en 260714-2 1. Questions to the First Minister C 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767474 34 En 2026-07-14T13:45:35 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=937&l=en 260714-2 1. Questions to the First Minister C 2717 2717 Rhun ap Iorwerth https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=2717 First Minister of Wales ap Iorwerth, Rhun We could have a philosophical debate here about how many months is months. All I can say is that all the actions that have been taken by this Government within the first 100 days—. You know, commissioning that work on establishing the surgery hubs, on making sure that we put that investment through this supplementary budget that we want to get passed today, so that we can, both in capital spend and in resource spend, make that investment to drive down those two-year waits—. The actions that Government is taking are aligned with bringing down those two-year waits as quickly as we can. We want to do it in months. I not so much stick to that—that is precisely what we set out to do before coming into Government, and what we are actively delivering now in Government. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767477 35 En 2026-07-14T13:46:20 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=982&l=en 260714-2 1. Questions to the First Minister C 12147 12147 Dan Thomas https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12147 Thomas, Dan The First Minister gave a promise during the election that two-year waits would be eradicated within a matter of months. That clearly is not happening. These promises are coming back to haunt you. It was obviously a promise that was made in the heat of an election debate, just as were your comments about a road solution for the M4. Your Ministers keep punishing you for your off-the-cuff remarks by rowing back on the promises that you're making in the heat of debates. Now, it is quite clear that the First Minister doesn't do the detail. There's no detail on two-year waits. There's no detail on tackling M4 congestion. There's no detail yet on childcare plans. You had 30 years to wait for this moment, and there's not even any detail on what Plaid's definition of a woman is. So, let's try an easy question, because we know this figure is somewhere in Plaid Cymru HQ: what are the initial costings of Plaid Cymru's childcare offer? 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767480 36 En 2026-07-14T13:47:23 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=1045&l=en 260714-2 1. Questions to the First Minister C 2717 2717 Rhun ap Iorwerth https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=2717 First Minister of Wales ap Iorwerth, Rhun I mean, the costings around the childcare offer have been made public, and they are very much a part of the supplementary budget that is due to be voted on today. The childcare offer is made up of a specific fund of £55 million that is going to be partly in capital, partly in resource, to make sure that we're able to deliver, as the first phase of the roll-out of costed childcare, the completion of the 12.5 hours for two-year-olds. Now, that is what is being done. I literally cannot give you more detail than that. It's the money, it's the timescale, and it's going to be done within this financial year. Now, I know the Member couldn't decide which question to ask today, so he tried to bring eight into one. But in terms of accusing me of giving an off-the-cuff reply on the M4, it was an off-the-cuff reply based on 15 years of Plaid Cymru policy that we want to see a solution to the problems on the M4 in the Newport area—work that has already begun under my Deputy Minister for Transport and that we will be reporting on in the autumn of this year. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767490 37 En 2026-07-14T13:48:30 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=1112&l=en 260714-2 1. Questions to the First Minister C 12147 12147 Dan Thomas https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12147 Thomas, Dan Fifteen years, and all your transport Minister could come up with is closing junctions. Now, one way to stop congestion is to stop cars getting onto the M4. I'll give you that, but the people of Newport will not be very happy with that. I asked for initial costings. Costings for phase 1 is not the initial costings. You said during the election campaign your promises were fully costed. Then you're downgrading them to initial costings. Then you're downgrading it to costings for phase 1. So, you clearly haven't got a plan. And if we do get those costings within the first 100 days, the 100 days ends during recess. So, we can't scrutinise when you actually issue those, but we will be here in September, waiting to scrutinise those figures. But, First Minister, if your supplementary budget is voted down today, are you prepared to come back during the summer recess with a revised budget, or is this a part-time Plaid Government? Or are you content for the plans within your supplementary budget to languish for months upon months because you're too stubborn to do a deal? 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767498 38 En 2026-07-14T13:49:34 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=1176&l=en 260714-2 1. Questions to the First Minister C 2717 2717 Rhun ap Iorwerth https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=2717 First Minister of Wales ap Iorwerth, Rhun [Inaudible.]—the idea that, from opposition, we were unable to resolve the problems of the M4—. We were in opposition over those years. He was in the Conservative Party, so I get the confusion there about where his politics land. Listen, I understand that there is frustration in wanting a holiday after eight weeks of being the leader of Reform in here. We will be working through the last 43 days of the 100-day plan, every single day of that reporting on it as we promised the people of Wales we would, and then cracking on with phase 2, which is that programme for government to transform the lives of the people of Wales. But today we need to get a supplementary budget through, to get working on the NHS, on childcare, on additional learning needs and all those issues that matter to the people of Wales.  16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767478 39 En 2026-07-14T13:50:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=1202&l=en 260714-2 1. Questions to the First Minister C 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767483 40 Cy 2026-07-14T13:50:20 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=1222&l=en 260714-2 1. Questions to the First Minister C 5053 5053 Huw Irranca-Davies https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=5053 Llywydd Irranca-Davies, Huw The leader of Welsh Labour, Ken Skates.  16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767489 41 En 2026-07-14T13:50:22 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=1224&l=en 260714-2 1. Questions to the First Minister C 267 267 Ken Skates https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=267 Leader of Welsh Labour Skates, Ken Diolch. First Minister, over the past few days, a crisis developed, the like of which I fear we will see again and again. Homes were evacuated, schools were closed, hundreds of acres of land was scorched and businesses hit during the north Wales wildfires and extreme heat. Now, thanks to our emergency services, the loss of human life was averted. First Minister, who is responsible in your Government for responding to such events? 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767496 42 En 2026-07-14T13:50:50 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=1252&l=en 260714-2 1. Questions to the First Minister C 2717 2717 Rhun ap Iorwerth https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=2717 First Minister of Wales ap Iorwerth, Rhun This is a cross-government response, of course. We have Ministers directly involved in working with the particular emergency services, of course. But this is a cross-government approach, in that these fires may have started yesterday, but they are caused by man-made climate change that all of us across Government are committed to addressing. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767502 43 En 2026-07-14T13:51:13 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=1275&l=en 260714-2 1. Questions to the First Minister C 267 267 Ken Skates https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=267 Skates, Ken Thank you, First Minister. Of course, the risk with it being cross-government is that no single Minister actually holds on to the responsibility. Now, that was the distinct advantage of having a Minister for north Wales. This week, the Welsh Government has been pretty much silent in north Wales and about north Wales whilst these fires have taken place. More people may be left homeless in weeks and months to come with further extreme heat predicted, and that means that businesses will also be hit, likely events will be cancelled. Can you assure people across Wales that your Government will support businesses and home owners who are impacted by wildfires and extreme heat? 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767509 44 En 2026-07-14T13:51:52 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=1314&l=en 260714-2 1. Questions to the First Minister C 2717 2717 Rhun ap Iorwerth https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=2717 First Minister of Wales ap Iorwerth, Rhun Of course, my Government will do everything we can and already have done to support those who are affected by these fires. My thanks initially go to the people who responded to them. My thoughts are with the people who are affected by them. On the question of a Minister for north Wales, I have a Minister for north Wales. It's Siân Gwenllian, and it's Dafydd Trystan, and it's Anna Brychan, it's Mabon ap Gwynfor, it's Sioned Williams—all my Ministers are Ministers for all of Wales. Where was Labour's Minister for the south of Wales, if that matters? Because all my Ministers are Ministers for the south of Wales too, and the west of Wales, and mid Wales, because we are a joined-up Government that has a plan for our nation—all of our nation. That is why all of us have come together around this supplementary budget today—north, south, east, west, and mid, it's important to remember—with a determination to change the lives of the people of Wales for the better. We have a supplementary budget that is focused on making the NHS sustainable. I will be voting for that sustainability for the NHS. The leader of Labour in Wales is threatening to vote against that. I will be voting for expanding free school meals under this supplementary budget. The Labour leader here is threatening to vote against that. I will be voting for the expansion of paid-for childcare in Wales. The Labour leader threatens to vote against that. And, yes, I will be voting for a package worth £120 million for ALN that he and I negotiated positively on, and he is threatening to vote to not allow that spending to go ahead. This is a Government for all of Wales with a vision for all of our nation. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767516 45 Cy 2026-07-14T13:53:40 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=1422&l=en 260714-2 1. Questions to the First Minister C 5053 5053 Huw Irranca-Davies https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=5053 Llywydd Irranca-Davies, Huw The leader of the Welsh Conservatives, Darren Millar.  16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767517 46 En 2026-07-14T13:53:43 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=1425&l=en 260714-2 1. Questions to the First Minister C 171 171 Darren Millar https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=171 Leader of the Welsh Conservatives Millar, Darren Diolch, Lywydd. If you'll indulge me, I'd like to pay tribute, on behalf of the Welsh Conservatives, to Bonnie Tyler. Tributes have poured in, of course, across Wales about the loss of this Welsh icon, a singer with global fame and impact, a unique artist with a unique voice, and we want to pay tribute to her and send our best wishes to her family and her loved ones. Of course, we're also in shock at the loss of Ann Widdecombe, a colourful political character, a precious character to people across the whole of the United Kingdom, but especially here in Wales for those who met her. First Minister, thanks to the members of the public right across Wales, our country now recycles more household waste than anywhere else in the United Kingdom, and our glass recycling rate is amongst the highest in Europe. Yet, in spite of this, your Plaid Cymru Government wants to follow the previous Labour Government's plans to diverge from the rest of the United Kingdom and insist on including glass in its deposit-return scheme from October. We know it's going to push costs on to businesses, manufacturers and consumers. What assessment has your Government made of the additional costs of this scheme and what are you going to do to mitigate them? 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767468 47 En 2026-07-14T13:55:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=1502&l=en 260714-2 1. Questions to the First Minister C 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767484 48 En 2026-07-14T13:55:04 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=1506&l=en 260714-2 1. Questions to the First Minister C 2717 2717 Rhun ap Iorwerth https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=2717 First Minister of Wales ap Iorwerth, Rhun I will, of course, firstly, also send my condolences to the loved ones of Bonnie Tyler, a national treasure who was a part of my life as long as I care to remember. She will be fondly, fondly remembered by all of us here in Wales and far, far beyond. And, yes, Ann Widdecombe: we share in the grief of her loved ones, but also in the fear around the safety of politicians and public figures, and these are negotiations and discussions that we should all across this Chamber be eager to engage with in a non-party political way. On the deposit-return scheme, I note that the Conservatives supported the DRS with glass. This is the starting point, and always at a time of difficulty in the implementation of a policy, it's important to remember where we came from. Why is it that the Conservatives said they supported including glass? Why is it that the last Senedd voted for the inclusion of glass, which is something that this Government is respecting in taking this matter forward? It is because it does go further than recycling. It is the reuse. It is about that environmental responsibility. It is about also being a trailblazer, because there's an agreement in principle in other parts of the UK to progressing with glass. We can be the ones showing the way. Are there challenges? Yes, which is why exemptions have been made clear for small retailers, for small producers, for example. But given that it's the right thing to do, you don't always allow the fact that there are challenges—very real ones, absolutely—to stop you in your tracks when there's a prize worth aiming for. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767585 49 Cy 2026-07-14T00:00:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=-48598&l=en 260714-2 1. Questions to the First Minister C 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767586 50 Cy 2026-07-14T13:55:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=1502&l=en 260714-2 1. Questions to the First Minister C 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767587 51 Cy 2026-07-14T13:55:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=1502&l=en 260714-2 1. Questions to the First Minister C 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767535 52 Cy 2026-07-14T13:59:15 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=1757&l=en 260714-2 1. Questions to the First Minister C 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767527 53 En 2026-07-14T13:56:57 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=1619&l=en 260714-2 1. Questions to the First Minister C 171 171 Darren Millar https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=171 Millar, Darren Look, First Minister, we all agree that we need to get to grips with litter and improve even further our recycling rates, but we've already got a by-election this summer with a man dressed up as a bin; the last thing we need is another row about rubbish receptacles, if I can put it that way, here in Wales. Now, councils are actually cutting litter bins across the country because they can’t afford to provide them and can't afford to empty them. Fly-tipping is on the up. Ninety per cent of glass is already recycled in Wales because of the kerbside recycling system and the engagement of the public with it. Why does your Government think it's acceptable to impose extra costs on small shopkeepers and force householders to face the inconvenience of having to drive with their cars full of bottles back to the shops, rather than simply leaving those glass bottles at the kerbside for collection and recycling? Why don't you make it simple for manufacturers, simple for retailers and simple for the public and bin this unnecessary policy?  16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767529 54 En 2026-07-14T13:58:06 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=1688&l=en 260714-2 1. Questions to the First Minister C 2717 2717 Rhun ap Iorwerth https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=2717 First Minister of Wales ap Iorwerth, Rhun Bins being a theme here, I like the rubbish receptacle trashing, of course, the reputation of the leader of Reform currently. Again, when you're talking about people driving places to get rid of bottles, at the core of DRS, as a principle, is people taking things places, so that doesn't make a difference whether it's plastic or glass, and the Member does agree that it's the right thing to ask people to take those plastic bottles somewhere in order to deal with that problem of plastic. I understand that there are challenges, and I know that my Minister is dealing with those challenges now, and putting the practical measures in place in order to deliver this. What we're saying is that we believe that this can be overcome. The Member mentions the additional cost to small retailers. There is an exemption for small retailers who don't have that square footage, that space to put the machines in and so on. These are things that the Government is taking into consideration, but we believe that this is doable, and we do not believe the threats of the very large manufacturers of extremely large increases in prices. The sums don't add up. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767569 55 Cy 260714-2 1. Questions to the First Minister B Defence Investment Plan 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767540 56 Cy 260714-2 1. Questions to the First Minister O 12151 12151 Matthew Jones https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12151 Jones, Matthew 3. What analysis has the Government made of the impact of the UK Government's defence investment plan on the Welsh Government's capital budget? OQ64409 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767542 57 Cy 2026-07-14T13:59:28 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=1770&l=en 260714-2 1. Questions to the First Minister C 2717 2717 Rhun ap Iorwerth https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=2717 First Minister of Wales ap Iorwerth, Rhun We estimate that there will be a reduction of £25 million to £30 million at least in the Welsh Government's capital budget in the current financial year, with further reductions in future years. The UK Government has also indicated that there will be a need to find a further £4.7 billion in the autumn budget. So, this is the minimum cut that we could expect, and it could be larger. This will have a direct impact on our schools, our hospitals and our transport connectivity. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767554 58 En 2026-07-14T13:59:56 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=1798&l=en 260714-2 1. Questions to the First Minister C 12151 12151 Matthew Jones https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12151 Jones, Matthew Prif Weinidog, we can all see that the threats to national security are numerous, but it can't be right that Wales will be denied years of capital funding to cover the failure of consecutive UK Governments to give us an armed forces fit for the future. Once again, the needs of Wales have been, at best, an afterthought. Thirty one of 32 schools in Torfaen require urgent maintenance, and there's a £5 million backlog for repairs in Monmouthshire schools. The money we will lose will directly affect areas like mine, and this means that issues that need to be addressed urgently will have to be pushed back. So, bearing this in mind, how will the First Minister keep making the case to the UK Government to redress this? Diolch. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767485 59 En 2026-07-14T14:00:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=1802&l=en 260714-2 1. Questions to the First Minister C 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767495 60 En 2026-07-14T14:00:43 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=1845&l=en 260714-2 1. Questions to the First Minister C 2717 2717 Rhun ap Iorwerth https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=2717 First Minister of Wales ap Iorwerth, Rhun It is a very important point. We absolutely recognise the changing face of the threats that we face currently and the arguments in favour of strengthening defence spending, including in the cyber sector, in which we have real expertise here in Wales, but Wales should not be peculiarly disadvantaged by the way the UK Government has gone about with its decisions on defence spending. Departments in the UK Government in Whitehall would have been able to make the case for protecting budgets. The handing down in this way without negotiation with Wales of ongoing cuts to capital, which were under severe strain anyway, will inevitably mean needing to cut back on spending on health and education. The first supplementary budget allocates £40 million of additional capital funding this year to support the urgent maintenance and repair works across schools, the kind of which the Members mentions. That is put under threat. But, of course, we need to get the supplementary budget through first in order to make that spending. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767503 61 En 2026-07-14T14:01:54 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=1916&l=en 260714-2 1. Questions to the First Minister C 12180 12180 Paul Marr https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12180 Marr, Paul First Minister, Reform UK makes no apology for supporting increased investment in Britain's armed forces at a time of growing global instability. National defence is the first duty of any Government, so, rather than blaming Westminster for difficult spending decisions, will you explain what efficiencies the Welsh Government is prepared to make within its own capital programme before claiming Wales cannot cope? How much money could be redirected by cancelling lower priority projects and reducing waste, so that essential infrastructure, such as roads, hospitals and schools, is protected while the UK strengthens our national security? 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767508 62 En 2026-07-14T14:02:28 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=1950&l=en 260714-2 1. Questions to the First Minister C 2717 2717 Rhun ap Iorwerth https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=2717 First Minister of Wales ap Iorwerth, Rhun I would hope that all of us want to see capital spend on schools and hospitals. These are really, really important elements for the future of our nation. As I said, the point here is that we haven't been engaged in any of this discussion that ends up in cuts being made that will inevitably lead to cuts in public service capital spend. I have written to the Secretary of State for Wales, and the Cabinet Minister for Finance has written to the Chief Secretary of the Treasury, to raise those concerns, seek clarity of the impacts for our funding. As I say, it's completely unacceptable that Welsh capital budgets are impacted in this way. That does not take away from recognising the changing face of the threats that exist in the world around us, which are undeniable. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767512 63 En 2026-07-14T14:03:20 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=2002&l=en 260714-2 1. Questions to the First Minister C 4787 4787 Peter Fox https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=4787 Fox, Peter First Minister, rather than solely focusing on the impact to the Welsh Government's budget, what is the Government actually doing to maximise the opportunities of the defence investment plan that it can present to employers such as BAE Systems in Glascoed in my constituency and the wider defence sector? There are over 285 defence companies in Wales, contributing a £1 billion to our economy. Surely we should be focusing on what we can make out of this, instead of just bemoaning the situation. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767514 64 En 2026-07-14T14:03:54 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=2036&l=en 260714-2 1. Questions to the First Minister C 2717 2717 Rhun ap Iorwerth https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=2717 First Minister of Wales ap Iorwerth, Rhun It's a separate question, but it's a very, very valid question: how, when defence spending is made, or when defence investment is made, there is at least equity in the way that that spend is made. If you look at the way UK Government distributes that investment, Wales has not been getting its share. If you look at the proportion of defence spend going to the south west of England, for example, compared with Wales, there is no comparison. So, the Member is right that there is an economic element to this, and that is something that we would look at in economic terms, and, of course, seeking opportunities for businesses involved in the ethical defence sector in Wales. But that does not mean that we should withdraw our concerns around how decisions are made that affect all of our constituencies, be it schools or hospitals and so on. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767530 65 En 2026-07-14T14:08:48 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=2330&l=en 260714-2 1. Questions to the First Minister C 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767505 66 Cy 260714-2 1. Questions to the First Minister B Promoting Equality 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767506 67 Cy 260714-2 1. Questions to the First Minister O 12146 12146 Joe Martin https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12146 Martin, Joe 4. Will the First Minister provide an update on what the Welsh Government is doing to promote equality in Wales? OQ64429 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767507 68 En 2026-07-14T14:05:06 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=2108&l=en 260714-2 1. Questions to the First Minister C 2717 2717 Rhun ap Iorwerth https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=2717 First Minister of Wales ap Iorwerth, Rhun In her oral statement of the 9 June, the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality set out our priorities for promoting social justice: fostering respect, solidarity and fairness. We're committed to addressing inequalities in Wales. This includes supporting the delivery of the 'Anti-racist Wales Action Plan', disabled persons' rights plan and delivering on the British Sign Language (Wales) Act 2026. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767511 69 En 2026-07-14T14:05:32 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=2134&l=en 260714-2 1. Questions to the First Minister C 12146 12146 Joe Martin https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12146 Martin, Joe First Minister, the Welsh Government has a target whereby 20 per cent of all newly hired Government employees should be from ethnic minority groups, who themselves only make up 6 per cent of the Welsh population. It has another scheme that pays £5,000 to ethnic minority students who want to become teachers, money that isn't available to students if they are white. These measures, which are themselves explicitly racist, fall under the scheme ironically named the 'Anti-racist Wales Action Plan'. Put plainly, it is anti-white discrimination, and the Welsh people will not sit idly by as we are racially discriminated against in our own country. First Minister, will it be your Government that delivers the return of race-blind meritocracy in Wales? 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767515 70 En 2026-07-14T14:06:11 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=2173&l=en 260714-2 1. Questions to the First Minister C 2717 2717 Rhun ap Iorwerth https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=2717 First Minister of Wales ap Iorwerth, Rhun I'm sure the Member is pushing the limits of what the Llywydd would deem acceptable in the Chamber. My Government believes in providing opportunities to people in a way that promotes equality of opportunity. The Member chooses to focus on the colour of skin. I would—[Interruption.] I would choose to focus on the fact that there are many people who don't have opportunities because they live in poverty, because they happen to come from a background that has not made those opportunities open to them, as they are to somebody as privileged as I have been. That is something that I would expect to be a core value of everybody in this Senedd who believes in supporting and representing all of the people of Wales, regardless of their background, regardless of the colour of their skin. It is about taking a suite of measures that we can honestly believe reflect those values that were, in many ways, the basis of the election that allowed us to have a Government of which hope was seen as a real mantra. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767522 71 En 2026-07-14T14:07:47 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=2269&l=en 260714-2 1. Questions to the First Minister C 5196 5196 Sarah Rees https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=5196 Rees, Sarah First Minister, from your previous answer I can tell that you agree with me that, when we talk about equality in Cymru, it's more than a buzz word. We’re talking about people's lives, where families working multiple jobs are struggling to get by, mums have been pushed out of work because their childcare is unaffordable, disabled people face barriers to services, racialised communities experience persistent discrimination. These pressures don’t exist in isolation; they’re the conditions in which inequality deepens and division takes hold. The consequence of this widening inequality is that, when people feel ignored or left behind, it’s fertile ground for far-right extremism—movements that thrive on misinformation, scapegoating and fear, and they target the communities already facing inequality, undermining the joint effort that we need to build a fairer Wales. So, I’d like to ask how the Government is ensuring that it’s addressing the root causes of inequality and protecting those most targeted by hate and division across Wales. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767528 72 En 2026-07-14T14:08:47 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=2329&l=en 260714-2 1. Questions to the First Minister C 2717 2717 Rhun ap Iorwerth https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=2717 First Minister of Wales ap Iorwerth, Rhun I want to associate myself with all of the words spoken by the Member there. This isn't—. There are elements of policy here, but this is about values. This is about ensuring that, in everything we do as a Government, be it in education, in healthcare, in job creation—all of those elements where people interact with public services—or in supporting communities and putting in place policies that support cohesion, always we are driven by those values. It is something that I know unites the majority within this Senedd: the need to speak the language of tolerance. And to have a Government here that acts in a way that always promotes that cohesion and tolerance is something that is very, very important to us. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767531 73 Cy 260714-2 1. Questions to the First Minister B Additional Learning Needs 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767532 74 Cy 260714-2 1. Questions to the First Minister O 12172 12172 Rebeca Phillips https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12172 Phillips, Rebaca 5. Will the First Minister provide an update on the Government's work to develop a sustainable additional learning needs service? OQ64392 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767533 75 Cy 2026-07-14T14:09:54 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=2396&l=en 260714-2 1. Questions to the First Minister C 2717 2717 Rhun ap Iorwerth https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=2717 First Minister of Wales ap Iorwerth, Rhun Supporting children and young people with additional learning needs and delivering a sustainable system is a priority for this Government. This is critical to raising standards and ensuring that these learners are supported to thrive. We are committed to working with our partners to develop sustainable solutions over the long term. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767510 76 Cy 2026-07-14T14:10:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=2402&l=en 260714-2 1. Questions to the First Minister C 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767539 77 En 2026-07-14T14:14:59 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=2701&l=en 260714-2 1. Questions to the First Minister C 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767513 78 Cy 2026-07-14T14:10:15 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=2417&l=en 260714-2 1. Questions to the First Minister C 12172 12172 Rebeca Phillips https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12172 Phillips, Rebaca Thank you, First Minister. The additional funding is a great opportunity to make a difference and to start to implement the priorities of the people of Wales. The funding is focused on activities that can be implemented in this financial year, including direct funding for schools to stabilise and support the current provision and to enable a sustainable long-term approach. I fear that stopping this additional funding will put that at risk, will keep the sectors in a very difficult position and will go against the priorities that the people of Wales voted for this year. Despite this, it's clear that ALN support is needed in Wales. So, how will this Government work in a meaningful and effective way to support the sector? 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767521 79 Cy 2026-07-14T14:11:07 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=2469&l=en 260714-2 1. Questions to the First Minister C 2717 2717 Rhun ap Iorwerth https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=2717 First Minister of Wales ap Iorwerth, Rhun Sustainability is the important thing here, isn't it? Over recent weeks, there have been many references to how we reach a point where there is sustainability. This is not a short-term solution; we need a real partnership approach, don't we, to try to strengthen the inclusive provision that we have over time, and to develop a more robust and sustainable system for Wales in order to tackle the pressures and to meet the increasing needs among learners. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767524 80 En 2026-07-14T14:11:38 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=2500&l=en 260714-2 1. Questions to the First Minister C 2717 2717 Rhun ap Iorwerth https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=2717 First Minister of Wales ap Iorwerth, Rhun Because we know that the pressure is great. And it's in the spirit of understanding that pressure that engagement has happened in recent weeks. And, as I laid out in a letter to the leader of the Labour group yesterday, I appreciated the determination shown by him to make sure that this was an issue on which there was focus, and it enabled us to pursue our determination to build a sustainable future for ALN provision in Wales. That is why we were able to move at pace, working with the education and Welsh language Minister in particular, to not only identify the funding against an extremely difficult funding background, but, crucially, to find a way that we can start spending this money immediately. Now, that has come about as the product of positive negotiation. What we want to do, and I think what the majority of people will sense is the right thing to do now, is to get that across the line in that spirit, which allows us, at the same time, to press ahead with spending on the NHS, on childcare and on free school meals as well, which, of course, the Labour Party agree with and I'm thankful to them for expressing that they do agree with it.  16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767525 81 En 2026-07-14T14:12:55 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=2577&l=en 260714-2 1. Questions to the First Minister C 12183 12183 Tom Montgomery https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12183 Montomery, Tom I'd like to start by declaring an interest. My wife and my mother both work in an education setting, which includes supporting children with ALN. As I'm sure the First Minister is aware, conditions like autism exist on a spectrum. Different children require different levels of support and intervention. Some, with the right support, can continue in mainstream education; some can't. And then there are the countless individuals who fall somewhere in between. However, those who work within the system, those who I speak to, often tell me of a system that fails to reflect the reality, with many children in need of placement at specialist schools but stuck in a system that is often too slow to respond or sat on waiting lists for months or even years, whilst others are placed in mainstream education without the correct support packages in place, failing both the students and the schools. First Minister, we need wholesale change and better co-ordination between health boards, mental health services and education authorities to speed up intervention. How are you going to get on and do that? 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767534 82 En 2026-07-14T14:14:04 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=2646&l=en 260714-2 1. Questions to the First Minister C 2717 2717 Rhun ap Iorwerth https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=2717 First Minister of Wales ap Iorwerth, Rhun The Member is quite right to point out those challenging areas. It's not just a matter of thinking of them in isolation, it's the way that they touch on each other. It is about taking that cross-Government approach. It is the way that my Ministers are approaching it. It touches on the ALN issue, again, and the need to get going on how to impact, in the most positive way, on the way policies are delivered within schools. The manifesto on which I stood made this one of the areas that we were absolutely clear we needed to gain ground on. We are confident that, in working in that cross-Government way, we can do that. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767537 83 Cy 260714-2 1. Questions to the First Minister B Palliative Care 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767538 84 Cy 260714-2 1. Questions to the First Minister O 12159 12159 David Hughes https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12159 Hughes, David 6. What action is the Welsh Government taking to better support the palliative care sector? OQ64427 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767518 85 Cy 2026-07-14T00:00:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=-48598&l=en 260714-2 1. Questions to the First Minister C 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767519 86 Cy 2026-07-14T14:15:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=2702&l=en 260714-2 1. Questions to the First Minister C 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767520 87 En 2026-07-14T14:15:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=2702&l=en 260714-2 1. Questions to the First Minister C 2717 2717 Rhun ap Iorwerth https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=2717 First Minister of Wales ap Iorwerth, Rhun We're committed to strengthening palliative and end-of-life care and to developing a sustainable hospice funding model. As a new Government, we're building on important foundations already established across Wales, including the quality statement, national service specification, competency framework and hospice commissioning approach. We're also working with NHS Wales, hospices and carers to improve access, strengthen the workforce, support advanced care planning and ensure long-term sustainability within the sector. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767523 88 En 2026-07-14T14:15:27 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=2729&l=en 260714-2 1. Questions to the First Minister C 12159 12159 David Hughes https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12159 Hughes, David Thank you. First Minister, Cwm Taf Morgannwg University Health Board recently ran a major public engagement process regarding the future of specialist palliative care and end-of-life services across the region. One of the proposals was to close ward 6 at Ysbyty Cwm Cynon, to relocate them to Royal Glamorgan Hospital in Llantrisant. This has drawn significant local opposition and concern. Residents and local councils argue that closing the specialist beds in the Cynon valley could force terminally ill patients in Merthyr and Cynon to travel for further care. I'm sure that the First Minister agrees with me that hospice and end-of-life services are some of the cornerstones of the Welsh healthcare system. Each year, they provide essential care and support for more than 20,000 children and adults living with terminal illness, easing pressures on the NHS by delivering vital, compassionate care within communities across Wales. However, rising demand and increasing costs are placing these services—[Interruption.] One more thing—under strain. Will the First Minister commit to providing sustainable long-term funding for hospices and end-of-life services in Wales to ensure that they can continue to deliver essential palliative and end-of-life care? 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767541 89 En 2026-07-14T14:17:08 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=2830&l=en 260714-2 1. Questions to the First Minister C 2717 2717 Rhun ap Iorwerth https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=2717 First Minister of Wales ap Iorwerth, Rhun I certainly agree with the Member on the importance of the sector. I say that as a former active member of the cross-party group in the last Senedd, and the previous one, on end-of-life care. On the particular issue of Ysbyty Cwm Cynon, I believe the health board's position is that consolidating specialist in-patient palliative care is necessary in their view to address workforce shortages and to maintain safe and sustainable specialist services. It's true to say, of course, that it is up to health boards in Wales to make those decisions. They hold the statutory responsibilities for the planning and delivery of healthcare services. They have to deliver them in a way that is tailored to the needs of their populations. But we are continuing discussions within the sector. The Cabinet Minister for Health and Care hopes to be meeting very soon, I think, with Hospices Cymru to discuss current pressures and the long-term sustainability of hospice services in Wales. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767543 90 Cy 260714-2 1. Questions to the First Minister B Health Budgets 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767544 91 Cy 260714-2 1. Questions to the First Minister O 12165 12165 Elfed Williams https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12165 Williams, Elfed 7. What steps is the Welsh Government taking to evaluate the health service's financial performance, and to ensure the effective management of health budgets? OQ64393 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767545 92 Cy 2026-07-14T14:18:24 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=2906&l=en 260714-2 1. Questions to the First Minister C 2717 2717 Rhun ap Iorwerth https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=2717 First Minister of Wales ap Iorwerth, Rhun As part of our first 100 days plan, we are reviewing the current arrangements for evaluating the financial performance of the health service. Strengthening that approach, alongside establishing a longer term shift towards prevention, will be integral to sustainability in the long term. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767550 93 Cy 2026-07-14T14:18:42 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=2924&l=en 260714-2 1. Questions to the First Minister C 12165 12165 Elfed Williams https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12165 Williams, Elfed I welcome many of the steps taken by the Plaid Cymru Government since coming into power in order to address the real challenges facing the health service in Bangor Conwy Môn. We have seen a direct commitment to Betsi Cadwaladr University Health Board as well as additional funding for the health service in the supplementary budget. I'm sure that everyone would recognise the difference that that funding could make for patients and staff, and therefore how important it is that we pass the supplementary budget this afternoon. In looking to the future and to ensure that the good work can continue, we must encourage more efficient use of public funds within the health service. With that in mind, will the First Minister provide an update on the Government's commitment to establish a health finance efficiency team and when he hopes to see that being established? 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767556 94 Cy 2026-07-14T14:19:44 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=2986&l=en 260714-2 1. Questions to the First Minister C 2717 2717 Rhun ap Iorwerth https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=2717 First Minister of Wales ap Iorwerth, Rhun As with other healthcare systems, including in other parts of the UK, the health service here faces significant financial challenges. I think that is clear to everyone. We need more work certainly, and actions, to put it on a sustainable footing. Working on the efficiency element is very, very important. The supplementary budget, of course, which we have before us today, includes £100 million of additional funding to support a reduction in waiting times, £45 million of capital funding for the health service, and the Betsi Cadwaladr University Health Board will benefit directly from that funding stream. The Cabinet Secretary for Health and Care, as well as officials, are reviewing the current arrangements in terms of efficiency, with the intention of strengthening them and noting a clear set of actions by the end of the first 100 days, which will be in about 43 days now. But beyond the idea of efficiency in general, I think we need a long-term approach that includes turning increasingly towards the preventative agenda, and our attitude to that is also part of our first 100 days commitment. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767526 95 Cy 2026-07-14T14:20:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=3002&l=en 260714-2 1. Questions to the First Minister C 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767574 96 Cy 2026-07-14T14:25:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=3302&l=en 260714-2 1. Questions to the First Minister C 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767546 97 Cy 260714-2 1. Questions to the First Minister B Small and Medium-sized Businesses 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767547 98 Cy 260714-2 1. Questions to the First Minister O 12152 12152 Carmelo Colasanto https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12152 Colasanto, Carmelo 8. What is the Welsh Government doing to support small and medium-sized businesses in Carmarthenshire? OQ64424 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767548 99 En 2026-07-14T14:21:09 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=3071&l=en 260714-2 1. Questions to the First Minister C 2717 2717 Rhun ap Iorwerth https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=2717 First Minister of Wales ap Iorwerth, Rhun Small and medium-sized businesses are at the heart of Carmarthenshire's economy. We're supporting them through Business Wales, the Development Bank of Wales, SMART Innovation support, town-centre regeneration programmes, supply-chain opportunities linked to major investments such as Pentre Awel, and targeted funding that helps businesses innovate, expand and create jobs across the county. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767549 100 En 2026-07-14T14:21:31 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=3093&l=en 260714-2 1. Questions to the First Minister C 12152 12152 Carmelo Colasanto https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12152 Colasanto, Carmelo Diolch, First Minister. I recently spoke to owners of haulage businesses in my constituency, who tell me that it costs around £3,000 to get a driver their HGV licence for a job that can actually pay up to £50,000 a year, yet they still cannot recruit and retain drivers. They have a practical proposal: a Welsh Government loan to cover that licence cost, repaid by the driver once they're earning. In effect, an income-contingent loan that would cost the taxpayer next to nothing in the long run. England currently offers free HGV skills boot camps, but Wales does not. And here's a wider point as well: after net migration hit a record 944,000 in 2023, justified as filling labour shortages, these Carmarthenshire businesses still can't find enough drivers. Now, I'm sure I'm going to hear the word 'Brexit' being fired from a cannon over there any second, but having spoken to these people, they tell me that it's not Brexit, it's the prohibitive cost of the licence that drivers and hauliers state is the real obstacle here. So, would you commit today to examining at least an income-contingent loan scheme for HGV licences and support these businesses to drive Wales's economy forward? 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767555 101 En 2026-07-14T14:22:42 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=3164&l=en 260714-2 1. Questions to the First Minister C 2717 2717 Rhun ap Iorwerth https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=2717 First Minister of Wales ap Iorwerth, Rhun Well, I'll commit to considering most things, because we're always on the lookout for good ideas. I know that the barriers to the HGV sector, with drivers, come from multiple sources. Difficulty in getting test capacity, for example, is one issue that is non-devolved, of course, but we as a Government will always seek to work with UK Government to make sure that we have the capacity for testing. There are elements, I know, in my neck of the woods where the further education sector has got involved in providing pathways, perhaps, to people into the driving sector. I'm very happy to consider what could be done, and I know I speak on behalf of the enterprise Minister in looking at how we look at the various options on the table, to recognise that this really important sector has that need—quite a crucial need, really, for an HGV sector to have enough drivers—and that that need is fulfilled. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767559 102 Cy 260714-2 1. Questions to the First Minister B The Childcare Scheme 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767560 103 Cy 260714-2 1. Questions to the First Minister O 5084 5084 Mair Rowlands https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=5084 Rowlands, Mair 9. What steps is the Welsh Government taking to expand the childcare scheme for two-year-olds and to fully introduce the scheme throughout Wales? OQ64411 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767561 104 Cy 2026-07-14T14:23:57 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=3239&l=en 260714-2 1. Questions to the First Minister C 2717 2717 Rhun ap Iorwerth https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=2717 First Minister of Wales ap Iorwerth, Rhun Well, as I said earlier, the Government is accelerating the roll-out of 12.5 hours of funded childcare for all two-year-olds across Wales. The additional funding in the supplementary budget should enable local authorities to make progress on this first phase of the expansion. I am pleased that officials are having positive feedback from local authorities on the difference that the funding will make. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767563 105 Cy 2026-07-14T14:24:20 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=3262&l=en 260714-2 1. Questions to the First Minister C 5084 5084 Mair Rowlands https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=5084 Rowlands, Mair Thank you, First Minister, for that response. As one with direct recent experience of the impact that childcare costs can have on family budgets, I was so pleased to stand on a manifesto that committed to introducing a transformational childcare scheme. I'm also pleased to see the Government proceeding immediately to invest in the childcare sector through the supplementary budget, and to start the work of giving every child the best possible start and allowing parents to return to work. That's the importance of facilitating the passing of the supplementary budget, so we can proceed immediately. So, I would welcome more information on the next steps that the Government will take to expand provision. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767536 106 Cy 2026-07-14T14:25:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=3302&l=en 260714-2 1. Questions to the First Minister C 2717 2717 Rhun ap Iorwerth https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=2717 First Minister of Wales ap Iorwerth, Rhun I thank the Member for drawing attention to the genuine pressure that exists, which is caused by childcare costs. Even though my children are getting older now, I remember clearly the heavy costs involved in providing childcare, and we as a Government are determined to help, with regard to the financial costs, the opportunities given to children, and the economic opportunities that follow for parents and so forth. The Deputy First Minister will provide an update to the Senedd today on the process of rolling out the childcare offer, as well as information on the cost modelling. The additional investment through the supplementary budget is going to allow us to expand thousands of additional funded childcare places, focusing immediately on expanding childcare for two-year-olds. This is always something that happens in phases: the 12.5 hours, the 20 hours, and then onwards to the youngest children. That's how it's planned, to increase the financial envelope and the workforce at the same time. But we're clear that this transformational change requires a childcare sector that is strong and sustainable, a skilled workforce, and a budget that works for providers as well as parents. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767551 107 Cy 260714-2 1. Questions to the First Minister B Young People 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767552 108 Cy 260714-2 1. Questions to the First Minister O 5038 5038 Jayne Bryant https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=5038 Bryant, Jayne 10. What is the Welsh Government doing to support young people who are not in education, employment or training? OQ64426 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767553 109 En 2026-07-14T14:26:26 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=3388&l=en 260714-2 1. Questions to the First Minister C 2717 2717 Rhun ap Iorwerth https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=2717 First Minister of Wales ap Iorwerth, Rhun Supporting young people who are not in education, employment or training is a priority for this Government. We're investing in support that helps young people develop skills, build confidence and move into education, training, employment or self-employment. Alongside this, our 'Wales means business' agenda is focused on growing Welsh businesses, attracting investment and creating more high-quality jobs across Wales. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767558 110 En 2026-07-14T14:26:47 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=3409&l=en 260714-2 1. Questions to the First Minister C 5038 5038 Jayne Bryant https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=5038 Bryant, Jayne Diolch, Brif Weinidog. Earlier this year, Premier Forest Products in Newport became the first private sector company to sign the Welsh Government's corporate parenting charter. Working in partnership with Newport City Council, Premier Forest provides paid work placements for care-experienced young people. Opportunities are offered across all departments, helping participants gain practical experience of the workplace and transition into employment. Terry Edgell, chief executive officer of Premier Forest Products, is clear that commercial success comes with social responsibility, and I've seen and heard first-hand what a difference this makes to young people, the company and also the workforce. So, I'd like to know: what is the Welsh Government doing to encourage and support more employers to give opportunities like this to care-experienced young people across Wales? 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767562 111 En 2026-07-14T14:27:37 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=3459&l=en 260714-2 1. Questions to the First Minister C 2717 2717 Rhun ap Iorwerth https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=2717 First Minister of Wales ap Iorwerth, Rhun Thank you, and congratulations to Terry and the team at Premier Forest Products. It does take good employers to show the way as well, so my gratitude is genuine to the team there in Newport. It takes a whole host of things to come together, doesn't it? It can be Government programmes, both devolved and non-devolved. It can be Jobs Growth Wales. It can be Communities for Work. It can be the Economic Inactivity Trailblazer. It could be work being done within the further education and skills sector itself. Medr is currently developing a more flexible apprenticeship programme for 2027, aligned to employer demand. We've got to make sure that it's aligned to the needs of those young people that we need to bring into the system. Careers Wales is still important in this, and making sure that they're there, at the right place, at the right time, to point young people in the right direction. So, it's an all-Government approach, but finding those trailblazing companies is really important to show others that it is in their interests to make sure that they provide opportunities for young people who otherwise could be missed. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767565 112 Cy 2026-07-14T14:28:50 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=3532&l=en 260714-2 1. Questions to the First Minister C 5053 5053 Huw Irranca-Davies https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=5053 Llywydd Irranca-Davies, Huw And finally, First Minister, question 11 from James Evans. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767566 113 Cy 260714-2 1. Questions to the First Minister B Powys Teaching Health Board 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767567 114 Cy 260714-2 1. Questions to the First Minister O 8585 8585 James Evans https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=8585 Evans, James 11. How does the Welsh Government calculate the funding it provides to Powys Teaching Health Board to deliver care for the residents of Powys? OQ64367 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767568 115 En 2026-07-14T14:29:01 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=3543&l=en 260714-2 1. Questions to the First Minister C 2717 2717 Rhun ap Iorwerth https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=2717 First Minister of Wales ap Iorwerth, Rhun Welsh Government uses a resource allocation formula to distribute the majority of NHS funding according to the relative health needs of the population served by each health board. The formula is commonly referred to as the local health board resource allocation formula. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767573 116 En 2026-07-14T14:29:16 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=3558&l=en 260714-2 1. Questions to the First Minister C 8585 8585 James Evans https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=8585 Evans, James Thank you for your answer, First Minister. I've raised on the floor of this Chamber a number of times the decisions that the Powys Teaching Health Board have taken: reducing bed numbers, closing hospitals, reducing access to minor injury units, ward closures, and also delaying care across the border in England to meet their financial challenges. Your legislative statement this afternoon is bringing forward a rural-proofing element to legislation. I'm interested, First Minister, in whether that rural-proofing then applies to rural health boards, to make sure that the funding that they receive actually protects the people who pay the same amount of tax as anybody else in this room, but receive a lower standard of service. So, I'd like to hear from you: what is your Government going to do to protect those rural health boards to make sure they get the funding they need, so my constituents can get the care they need and they pay for in their taxes? 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767557 117 En 2026-07-14T14:30:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=3602&l=en 260714-2 1. Questions to the First Minister C 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767733 118 Cy 260714-2 1. Questions to the First Minister I The Deputy Presiding Officer (Kerry Ferguson) took the Chair. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767564 119 En 2026-07-14T14:30:04 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=3606&l=en 260714-2 1. Questions to the First Minister C 2717 2717 Rhun ap Iorwerth https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=2717 First Minister of Wales ap Iorwerth, Rhun The Member is right, and I expect every Member here to want to make sure that the health board serving their constituency is funded according to its need. I should say that the resource allocation formula does take into account the excess costs of rurality. It is one of the factors that is factored into that particular formula. We've got to make sure that it's effective, that it works. Does rural-proofing have a direct impact on that particular formula? I wouldn't say that the legislation that we have in mind would lead to there being a direct impact, but it's a principle. What that legislation shows is that this is a Government that, as a matter of principle, wants to make sure that no rural part of Wales is left behind because of its rurality. That should be as relevant in health as in anything else. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767570 120 Cy 2026-07-14T14:31:01 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=3663&l=en 260714-2 1. Questions to the First Minister C 12177 12177 Kerry Ferguson https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12177 Deputy Presiding Officer Ferguson, Kerry Thank you, First Minister. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767572 121 Cy 2026-07-14T14:31:02 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=3664&l=en 260714-3 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution C 12177 12177 Kerry Ferguson https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12177 Deputy Presiding Officer Ferguson, Kerry Item 2, questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution. Question 1, Steven Rodaway. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767575 122 Cy 260714-3 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution B Effectiveness of Government 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767576 123 Cy 260714-3 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution O 12191 12191 Steven Rodaway https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12191 Rodaway, Steven 1. What measures is the Welsh Government using to assess the effectiveness of Government across departments? OQ64378 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767577 124 En 2026-07-14T14:31:24 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=3686&l=en 260714-3 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution C 12140 12140 Dafydd Trystan Davies https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12140 Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution Trystan Davies, Dafydd The Welsh Government uses a range of measures to assess effectiveness across departments, depending on the policy area and the outcomes being delivered. These include management information, official statistics, evaluation evidence, financial and performance reporting, and feedback from service users and those with lived experience. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767584 125 En 2026-07-14T14:31:43 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=3705&l=en 260714-3 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution C 12191 12191 Steven Rodaway https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12191 Rodaway, Steven Thank you, Minister. I'm glad to hear it's so full. Your published ministerial responsibilities include official statistics, including the census, social research and the national survey for Wales. Effective government depends on understanding how Wales is changing and ensuring that future planning reflects that evidence. What research has your department undertaken into the demographic changes in Wales since the implementation of the nation of sanctuary policy and how are those findings being incorporated into the evidence used to forecast future demand for housing, NHS services, school places, transport infrastructure and other public services across Wales? If those demographic changes are not being factored into Government planning, how can you be confident that your forecasts accurately reflect the future needs of Wales? This is not being divisive or any other adjectives you may wish to throw at our party; the people of Wales deserve to understand how the Government determines the future requirements of our nation, and your portfolio is central to ensuring that those decisions are informed by robust evidence and accurate data. Thank you. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767589 126 En 2026-07-14T14:32:47 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=3769&l=en 260714-3 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution C 12140 12140 Dafydd Trystan Davies https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12140 Trystan Davies, Dafydd Thank you. I can offer the Member some reassurance here, because my colleagues in the statistics team plan meticulously based on the evidence, based on the demographic figures, and based on the whole range of factors that impact on the population of Wales, on the health of Wales, on the economy of Wales. The Member will be familiar with a number of the statistical publications that appear on a weekly basis, if not more so, from the statistics team that undertake that detailed analysis. You will also be familiar with the fact that those statistics teams look at the future population of Wales and the changing demographics in local areas. So, I can offer that reassurance to the Member. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767591 127 En 2026-07-14T14:33:42 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=3824&l=en 260714-3 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution C 12175 12175 Shav Taj https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12175 Taj, Shav If the Government's effectiveness is itself constantly being reviewed and reset, does that suggest that the current measures aren't actually working? How many more reviews will be required before Ministers can demonstrate sustained improvement? In short, how many reviews are there and will there be yet another review of the outcome of that review? 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767593 128 En 2026-07-14T14:34:08 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=3850&l=en 260714-3 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution C 12140 12140 Dafydd Trystan Davies https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12140 Trystan Davies, Dafydd I do fear the Member is a little pessimistic about our plans for Government efficiency and delivery on outcomes. I set out in my oral statement, and I've set out in this Senedd before, how we're going to focus on outcomes. What I'm doing and what we're doing as a team in the Cabinet Office, supporting my colleagues right across Government, is ensuring that every one of our plans, every one of our developments, is focused on changing the lives of the people of Wales for the better. That is what we will do. That is what we will continue to do. Again, as I alluded to in a previous contribution to this Senedd, the first 100 days puts the foundation blocks in place. We will then move rapidly into that delivery phase and ensure that the lives of the people of Wales are duly improved. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767578 129 En 2026-07-14T14:35:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=3902&l=en 260714-3 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution C 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767595 130 Cy 2026-07-14T14:36:54 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=4016&l=en 260714-3 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution C 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767668 131 En 2026-07-14T14:39:29 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=4171&l=en 260714-3 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution C 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767675 132 En 2026-07-14T14:35:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=3902&l=en 260714-3 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution C 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767579 133 Cy 260714-3 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution B Effectiveness of Government Departments 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767580 134 Cy 260714-3 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution O 12142 12142 Benjamin Hodge Mckenna https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12142 Hodge Mckenna, Benjamin 2. What progress has the Government made in developing digital dashboards that track the effectiveness of Government departments? OQ64376 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767581 135 En 2026-07-14T14:35:11 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=3913&l=en 260714-3 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution C 12140 12140 Dafydd Trystan Davies https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12140 Trystan Davies, Dafydd Work is progressing on the Government’s priorities dashboard, which will provide a clear way to track progress against our five priorities. An initial version of this dashboard will be published during the first 100 days of this Government, with key measures to support transparency, delivery and accountability. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767590 136 En 2026-07-14T14:35:31 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=3933&l=en 260714-3 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution C 12142 12142 Benjamin Hodge Mckenna https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12142 Hodge Mckenna, Benjamin Diolch, Weinidog. I thank the Minister for his commitment to the timely publishing of digital dashboards to better enable this Siambr to scrutinise the Government. What benchmarks or targets will be used to measure effectiveness using these dashboards? If the dashboards reveal that individual departments are not performing as expected, what action will the Minister take in his role as Cabinet Minister for Government effectiveness to ensure that the Government is actually performing effectively? 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767594 137 En 2026-07-14T14:35:59 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=3961&l=en 260714-3 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution C 12140 12140 Dafydd Trystan Davies https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12140 Trystan Davies, Dafydd Thank you to the Member and thank you for his support in the work that we will be doing at the Cabinet Office and across Government. I think the first thing to point out clearly is that these dashboards are going to be focused on the five priorities we've set out as a Government. We have said we will cut waiting lists, we will tackle child poverty, we will help families with childcare, we will raise school standards and we will improve productivity in the Welsh economy. [Interruption.] Colleagues opposite ask, 'When?' The Minister for enterprise and connectivity has already set out the time frame for the productivity goals. But there is an interesting point here that we should reflect on, which is that we've set out a 10-year productivity goal. My colleague the Cabinet Minister—[Interruption.] Wait for it, wait for it. But what we need to do is to have interim measures so that we may track progress along the way, and we're committed to developing those measures. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767596 138 Cy 260714-3 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution B Questions Without Notice from Party Spokespeople 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767597 139 Cy 2026-07-14T14:36:55 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=4017&l=en 260714-3 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution C 12177 12177 Kerry Ferguson https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12177 Deputy Presiding Officer Ferguson, Kerry I now call on the party spokespeople to question the Cabinet Minister. Reform UK spokesperson, Cai Parry-Jones. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767600 140 En 2026-07-14T14:37:02 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=4024&l=en 260714-3 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution C 12174 12174 Cai Parry-Jones https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12174 Parry-Jones, Cai Diolch, Ddirprwy Lywydd. Minister, last week, your Government came to the Senedd and asked for permission to go to Westminster and argue for a different funding model. In a crushing defeat for you and your colleagues, this Senedd refused to grant that permission. Reform, with the support of Labour and the Conservatives, potentially saved £1.5 billion annually for the Welsh Government's budget—you're welcome. Now that the Senedd has spoken, will you abandon your plans to argue for a change for the funding model for Wales? 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767604 141 Cy 2026-07-14T14:37:33 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=4055&l=en 260714-3 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution C 12140 12140 Dafydd Trystan Davies https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12140 Trystan Davies, Dafydd No. What has become very clear in assessing the financial situation facing Wales is that we need fair funding for Wales and funding that reflects the needs of the population. Wales has nothing to fear from a review of that kind. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767605 142 En 2026-07-14T14:37:55 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=4077&l=en 260714-3 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution C 12174 12174 Cai Parry-Jones https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12174 Parry-Jones, Cai Thank you for your answer, Minister. You are responsible for your party's programme for government, and that programme did take a significant blow last week. Just like the supplementary budget that you are hoping to pass, with votes you don't have, your minority Government has to follow the first rule of politics, which is learning to count. There's little doubt that much of Plaid's manifesto hinged on an optimistic change of the funding model from Westminster. Now that the Senedd has rejected your calls to change the funding model, what changes have you made to your programme for government? 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767608 143 Cy 2026-07-14T14:38:30 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=4112&l=en 260714-3 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution C 12140 12140 Dafydd Trystan Davies https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12140 Trystan Davies, Dafydd I thank the spokesperson for those comments. I can count, thank you very much; one of my favourite things to do is counting and adding up data. We have clear plans in place for our expenditure. I very much hope that there will be cross-Senedd support for the supplementary budget, which reflects the priorities that the people of Wales voted for in the election. I hope that colleagues across this Senedd will work to ensure that the Welsh Government and the public sector in Wales work at their most effective and that we, over the next four years, can identify more funding that can be invested in the priorities of the people, to support childcare, to support the economy, to support the health service. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767643 144 Cy 2026-07-14T14:39:26 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=4168&l=en 260714-3 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution C 12174 12174 Cai Parry-Jones https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12174 Parry-Jones, Cai I'll take that as a 'no'. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767654 145 En 2026-07-14T14:39:28 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=4170&l=en 260714-3 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution C 12174 12174 Cai Parry-Jones https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12174 Parry-Jones, Cai Responding to the COVID inquiry's fifth report today, the First Minister rather vaguely said that Plaid remains committed to reviewing the Wales COVID response. In March, Plaid said it would hold a short, sharp and focused review of the Welsh Government's COVID response, a far cry from the full-fat all-Wales inquiry Plaid previously called for for years, including during your 2024 manifesto. Now, following that u-turn, nobody knows what your review actually is—not when it's happening, not for how long, not even what elements of the COVID response it would focus on. Surely, Minister, now is the time to make it clear to bereaved families what actions exactly your Government is going to take. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767588 146 En 2026-07-14T14:40:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=4202&l=en 260714-3 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution C 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767601 147 Cy 2026-07-14T14:40:15 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=4217&l=en 260714-3 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution C 12140 12140 Dafydd Trystan Davies https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12140 Trystan Davies, Dafydd I thank the spokesperson for that question. I'm sure that many people in this Chamber and across Wales will have been impacted by COVID, as have I. I have a member of the family who has suffered long COVID, and many of you will know her. There are clearly challenges there. This Government has committed to conduct a review of COVID. That's what we said in our manifesto and that's what we intend to do. I'm pleased to say that I have already been in correspondence with the COVID bereaved families on our intentions and hope to arrange a meeting with them soon, because it's important that the voices of those who have suffered are part of that discussion and feed in to the work of Government. I hope, in due course, to update the Senedd on our plans on that review, in accordance with what the spokesperson asked for.  16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767606 148 Cy 2026-07-14T14:41:17 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=4279&l=en 260714-3 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution C 12177 12177 Kerry Ferguson https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12177 Deputy Presiding Officer Ferguson, Kerry The Welsh Labour spokesperson, Huw Thomas.  16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767613 149 Cy 2026-07-14T14:41:20 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=4282&l=en 260714-3 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution C 12156 12156 Huw Thomas https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12156 Thomas, Huw In a written response I received recently, the Minister for Local Government, Housing and Planning confirmed that Welsh Government, as part of its review of the funding formula, is reviewing the data on primary indicators, including those relating to deprivation and sparsity of population, in order to ensure that they continue to provide a clear reflection of the comparative need and costs. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767614 150 En 2026-07-14T14:41:50 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=4312&l=en 260714-3 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution C 12156 12156 Huw Thomas https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12156 Thomas, Huw There are huge concerns in parts of Wales that Plaid will copy what Rishi Sunak did in England and redistribute funding via the funding formula away from poorer urban areas towards relatively wealthier rural ones. As the Minister with responsibility for statistics, can you confirm what issues you identified in the underlying data and indicators that prompted this review, and when will the review be concluded? 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767624 151 Cy 2026-07-14T14:42:14 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=4336&l=en 260714-3 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution C 12140 12140 Dafydd Trystan Davies https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12140 Trystan Davies, Dafydd I thank the spokesperson for those questions. My colleague the Cabinet member for local government is progressing with the review of the funding formula. As with all official statistics, the Government keeps a close eye on the accuracy and effectiveness of that data to ensure that they are clearly and accurately reflected in the formulas. The spokesperson himself comes from Aberystwyth and he knows full well that there are areas of significant poverty in rural Wales as well as industrial Wales. Setting those communities against each other is a disappointing approach from the spokesperson, I would suggest.  16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767637 152 Cy 2026-07-14T14:43:02 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=4384&l=en 260714-3 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution C 12156 12156 Huw Thomas https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12156 Thomas, Huw I'm just reflecting, Minister, the real concern that's to be felt in the more industrial areas. We heard from your colleague Zaynub Akbar in a recent debate that there are 60,000 people in the southern arc of Cardiff, and if those 60,000 were one local authority, that would be the poorest local authority in Wales. So, the concern is real, and I didn't hear what figures had pushed you to hold that review. However, another aspect of the policy agenda that causes concern is the increasing number of quangos and new commissions that are being formed without objectives being set and without clear transparency. As the Minister responsible for oversight, what steps will you be taking to ensure that this Senedd and its committees can scrutinise these new bodies effectively? 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767679 153 Cy 2026-07-14T14:44:02 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=4444&l=en 260714-3 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution C 12140 12140 Dafydd Trystan Davies https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12140 Trystan Davies, Dafydd I would kindly suggest that ensuring that the Senedd is aware of the plans that are being developed is a matter for the whole Government. I was in the Chamber to listen to my colleague the Cabinet Secretary for Enterprise, Connectivity and Energy when he updated the Chamber on plans to create a new economic development agency for Wales. That's the kind of approach that we are taking as a Government and that's what we will continue to do in order to ensure that the Government can be clear on its plans and that there is an appropriate opportunity for this Senedd to scrutinise those plans. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767684 154 Cy 2026-07-14T14:44:42 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=4484&l=en 260714-3 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution C 12177 12177 Kerry Ferguson https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12177 Deputy Presiding Officer Ferguson, Kerry The Welsh Conservatives' spokesperson, Andrew R.T. Davies. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767685 155 En 2026-07-14T14:44:46 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=4488&l=en 260714-3 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution C 143 143 Andrew R.T. Davies https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=143 Davies, Andrew R.T. Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer. Minister for delivery, it is vital that Plaid Cymru stick to their commitment prior to the election, and voted on many times in this Chamber, that they would enact a COVID inquiry—not a review, an inquiry. Can you confirm that the Government's thinking, whatever emerges, will be set up under the Inquiries Act 2005, which would compel witnesses to come before that inquiry and give evidence, because anything else will be a whitewash? 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767582 156 En 2026-07-14T14:45:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=4502&l=en 260714-3 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution C 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767626 157 En 2026-07-14T14:47:19 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=4641&l=en 260714-3 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution C 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767627 158 Cy 2026-07-14T00:00:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=-48598&l=en 260714-3 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution C 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767628 159 Cy 2026-07-14T14:45:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=4502&l=en 260714-3 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution C 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767629 160 En 2026-07-14T14:45:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=4502&l=en 260714-3 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution C 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767602 161 En 2026-07-14T14:45:18 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=4520&l=en 260714-3 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution C 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767583 162 En 2026-07-14T14:45:19 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=4521&l=en 260714-3 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution C 12140 12140 Dafydd Trystan Davies https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12140 Trystan Davies, Dafydd I thank the Member for the question. Work is progressing on our COVID review. As I indicated earlier, I will be making a statement to this Senedd in due course about that review, and I will be liaising closely with a number of those groups—the COVID bereaved families, amongst others—who have made very strong representations to this Government and to previous Governments about the importance of that review being thorough, looking at the issues from a Welsh perspective, and ensuring that the lessons that can be learnt are fully learnt for the future. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767603 163 En 2026-07-14T14:45:58 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=4560&l=en 260714-3 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution C 143 143 Andrew R.T. Davies https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=143 Davies, Andrew R.T. Warm words, Minister, but little substance. The reality is that we found out, with the COVID committee that was set up in the previous Senedd term, that unless witnesses were compelled to give evidence, that committee was thwarted in its endeavours to get to the truth. Today, for example, the COVID inquiry reports that, on the FFP3 respirator masks that we were told Wales was well stocked with prior to the COVID pandemic in its emergency allocation, there wasn't a single mask in Wales available for the health service to use. These are the things we need to get to the core of as to what was not provided, what was mislaid, what was deliberately not ordered to save money, and what was not acted on on the emergency planning trials that were held prior to the COVID pandemic. If you don't set it up with the Inquiries Act 2005 in mind, whatever you bring forward will be pointless. So, I implore you and the Government to stick to your guns, stick to your morals, stick to the votes that you made prior to the Senedd election and have a full-blown inquiry that gets to the truth and, ultimately, prepares Wales for any future pandemic. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767615 164 En 2026-07-14T14:47:18 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=4640&l=en 260714-3 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution C 12140 12140 Dafydd Trystan Davies https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12140 Trystan Davies, Dafydd I heard the opposition spokesperson's passion for the issue and the importance of the issue. Reading the most recent module report on COVID brings home the sobering impact of COVID right across this country. Those lessons must be learnt, and the review that we are committed to undertaking must have the ability to address those precise issues that you have set out and that is what we will seek to do. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767633 165 Cy 2026-07-14T14:47:49 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=4671&l=en 260714-3 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution C 12177 12177 Kerry Ferguson https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12177 Deputy Presiding Officer Ferguson, Kerry Question 3, Gareth Thomas. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767639 166 En 2026-07-14T14:47:56 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=4678&l=en 260714-3 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution C 12148 12148 Gareth Thomas https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12148 Thomas, Gaz Sorry, I'm just—. Thank you, Dirprwy Lywydd. Minister—. I'm lost at the moment, sorry. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767648 167 En 2026-07-14T14:48:09 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=4691&l=en 260714-3 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution C 12177 12177 Kerry Ferguson https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12177 Deputy Presiding Officer Ferguson, Kerry I can go to question 4 and come back, if you like. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767653 168 En 2026-07-14T14:48:11 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=4693&l=en 260714-3 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution C 12148 12148 Gareth Thomas https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12148 Thomas, Gaz No, no, it's all right, I've got it now. Sorry. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767659 169 En 2026-07-14T14:48:13 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=4695&l=en 260714-3 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution C 12177 12177 Kerry Ferguson https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12177 Deputy Presiding Officer Ferguson, Kerry That's okay. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767660 170 En 2026-07-14T14:48:14 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=4696&l=en 260714-3 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution C 12148 12148 Gareth Thomas https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12148 Thomas, Gaz I've got two. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767662 171 Cy 260714-3 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution B Priorities in Pen-y-bont Bro Morgannwg 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767663 172 Cy 260714-3 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution O 12148 12148 Gareth Thomas https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12148 Thomas, Gaz 3. How is the Cabinet Minister working with cabinet colleagues to deliver the Welsh Government's priorities in Pen-y-bont Bro Morgannwg? OQ64379 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767664 173 En 2026-07-14T14:48:23 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=4705&l=en 260714-3 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution C 12140 12140 Dafydd Trystan Davies https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12140 Trystan Davies, Dafydd Delivering meaningful change for people in Pen-y-bont Bro Morgannwg, and across Wales, is at the heart of this Government's approach. That starts with our first 100 days plan, on which I'm working collaboratively with Cabinet colleagues to deliver. The programme for government will build on this foundation, with improved cross-Government working and a clear focus on delivery. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767674 174 En 2026-07-14T14:48:43 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=4725&l=en 260714-3 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution C 12148 12148 Gareth Thomas https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12148 Thomas, Gaz Cabinet Minister, the Welsh Government has repeatedly identified health, education, tackling poverty and the cost of living as key priorities, yet many families in Pen-y-bont Bro Morgannwg tell me they're still facing long waits for health care, are worried about educational standards and are struggling to make ends meet as their household costs continue to rise. For many, a family holiday this summer remains out of reach. Given the clear gap between the Government's ambitions and the reality facing many constituents, what evidence can you provide that these policies are delivering meaningful improvements? And how are you working across Government to ensure departments are not operating in silos, but together delivering tangible, measurable benefits for families in communities like mine? 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767681 175 En 2026-07-14T14:49:34 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=4776&l=en 260714-3 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution C 12140 12140 Dafydd Trystan Davies https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12140 Trystan Davies, Dafydd Well, I thank the Member, Dr Thomas, for his question. The analysis of the challenges facing families in Pen-y-bont Bro Morgannwg, and across Wales, is one that we share. Standards in education need to improve, waiting-list times need to come down, far broader childcare needs to be provided for families to make lives easier for people who are today struggling. We've been here for, I think, eight weeks. We are working at pace to seek to deliver meaningful change for those people in Bro Morgannwg and in other areas. For me, fundamentally, if we are to succeed as a Government, those very people you refer to have to feel the measurable change to their daily lives, and if we succeed in that, then we can be pleased, in four years' time, that it is a job well done. Our dashboards and our progress mechanisms across Government will allow us to track progress, but they will also allow us to work with Cabinet colleagues right across Government to ensure that, where one part of the system isn't necessarily supporting those aims, we work together to break down those silos and make progress. It is work in progress. It is a significant task of work after 27 years of Labour Government. It is a task that I am committed to doing right across this Government. Diolch. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767592 176 En 2026-07-14T14:50:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=4802&l=en 260714-3 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution C 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767610 177 Cy 2026-07-14T00:00:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=-48598&l=en 260714-3 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution C 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767611 178 Cy 2026-07-14T14:52:47 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=4969&l=en 260714-3 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution C 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767612 179 Cy 2026-07-14T14:50:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=4802&l=en 260714-3 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution C 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767617 180 Cy 2026-07-14T00:00:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=-48598&l=en 260714-3 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution C 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767618 181 Cy 2026-07-14T14:50:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=4802&l=en 260714-3 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution C 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767619 182 Cy 2026-07-14T14:50:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=4802&l=en 260714-3 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution C 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767620 183 Cy 2026-07-14T00:00:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=-48598&l=en 260714-3 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution C 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767621 184 Cy 2026-07-14T14:50:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=4802&l=en 260714-3 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution C 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767622 185 En 2026-07-14T14:50:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=4802&l=en 260714-3 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution C 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767630 186 Cy 2026-07-14T00:00:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=-48598&l=en 260714-3 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution C 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767631 187 Cy 2026-07-14T14:50:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=4802&l=en 260714-3 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution C 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767632 188 Cy 2026-07-14T14:50:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=4802&l=en 260714-3 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution C 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767636 189 En 2026-07-14T14:52:03 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=4925&l=en 260714-3 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution C 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767599 190 En 2026-07-14T14:50:01 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=4803&l=en 260714-3 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution C 5196 5196 Sarah Rees https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=5196 Rees, Sarah Minister, as a sea dipper, I know the health and well-being benefits of being able to swim safely in our waters. Ending pollution in our waterways and seas is a priority for many residents in Pen-y-bont Bro Morgannwg, especially after Natural Resources Wales recently reported poor water quality at two of our local beaches. Since becoming a Senedd Member, I've heard directly from local swimming groups, like the Watchtower Waders in Barry, I've met with Ofwat, and I've welcomed NRW and Dŵr Cymru's South Central Bathing Waters project, which aims to identify the sources of pollution ahead of the statutory targets that come next spring. So, I'd like to ask what further action this new Government is taking to ensure that the bodies responsible for our water systems are delivering effectively, so that every part of our rivers, streams and coastal waters reach the highest possible standard of water quality. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767607 191 En 2026-07-14T14:52:02 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=4924&l=en 260714-3 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution C 12140 12140 Dafydd Trystan Davies https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12140 Trystan Davies, Dafydd I thank the Member for the question. I'm familiar with the Penarth Dawnstalkers who head to the water in Penarth on a daily basis, come rain, shine or however cold it is—braver people than me. On the matter of water, we are taking a whole-system approach to improving water quality in Wales, strengthening regulation, accountability and investment across the sector. Through our water reform programme, targeted action on pollution sources and closer collaboration with regulators, water companies and land managers, we are seeking to drive long-term improvements in rivers and coastal waters. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767640 192 Cy 260714-3 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution B NHS Performance 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767641 193 Cy 260714-3 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution O 5083 5083 Gwyn Williams https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=5083 Williams, Gwyn 4. How is the Cabinet Minister working with the Cabinet Minister for Health and Care to deliver the independent review of the performance of the NHS, in line with the Government's priorities? OQ64388 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767642 194 Cy 2026-07-14T14:52:59 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=4981&l=en 260714-3 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution C 12140 12140 Dafydd Trystan Davies https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12140 Trystan Davies, Dafydd I am working with Cabinet Ministers to ensure delivery of the commitments set out in the 100-day plan. Officials are developing options for commissioning an independent review of NHS performance in Wales. The review will consider the causes and impacts of current performance challenges, including population health outcomes, to inform future improvement and reform. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767656 195 En 2026-07-14T14:53:26 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=5008&l=en 260714-3 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution C 5083 5083 Gwyn Williams https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=5083 Williams, Gwyn Diolch yn fawr. As a consultant myself, I'm well aware of the inefficiency of the NHS, and clinicians and consultants have been calling for change—meaningful change—for years now. We need a fundamental change in culture, one that promotes accountability, performance and continuous improvement, while moving away from the previous blame culture and the toxicity that can too often hinder progress and, in fact, has hindered progress. Above all, the focus must be on patients and on ensuring that their voices are heard throughout the system. We need a far more joined-up approach across the health boards in particular, which we spoke about last week, and organisations such as Digital Health and Care Wales. Despite spending millions of pounds on digital transformation, progress on different electronic patient records has been slow, with work most often delayed due to health boards not collaborating or working with each other. We are already lagging behind countries with integrated national systems, remaining reliant on fragmented digital infrastructure, which is cost inefficient and unable to communicate effectively. Can the Cabinet Secretary outline how he will work with the Minister for Health and Care to deliver the hard reset that is needed across our health boards to deliver this meaningful change? Diolch yn fawr. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767673 196 Cy 2026-07-14T14:54:39 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=5081&l=en 260714-3 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution C 12140 12140 Dafydd Trystan Davies https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12140 Trystan Davies, Dafydd Thank you for the question, and the Member outlines a number of areas of inefficiency that need to be tackled, and I look forward to tackling them. As part of the new accountability arrangements that were implemented from April last year, we are holding regular meetings with health boards to challenge their delivery and performance in key areas. Our 100-day plan has made a number of commitments to stimulate system improvement in the NHS, including a joint review of escalation and intervention arrangements. It will concentrate not only on process, but on whether oversight and progress drive real improvement in outcomes for patients. For me, that's where I start and end: are we going to succeed in driving better outcomes for patients?  16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767598 197 Cy 2026-07-14T14:55:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=5102&l=en 260714-3 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution C 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767616 198 En 2026-07-14T14:55:40 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=5142&l=en 260714-3 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution C 12190 12190 Francesca O'Brien https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12190 O'Brien, Francesca I'm sure all Members in this Chamber have a strong interest in the performance of the NHS, and particularly in terms of its staff. Therefore, after last week's debate on eyecare, I picked up the latest issue of Eye News magazine, volume No. 33. And I came across a fascinating article written by Dr Gwyn Williams of Plaid Cymru, where he blasts the high levels of sick leave being taken by staff in his own department. He then goes on to create a humorous quiz, poking fun at the various excuses he feels are being made by NHS staff to take sick leave. These include, 'thrashing the Equality Act 2010 to within an inch of its life to get the very most out of the NHS.' Dr Williams finishes the quiz by saying that, for nurses and other staff who take too much stress-related sick leave, 'A gulag is too good for you. You are the reason the NHS is in the state it's in'. So, I ask the Minister: does he agree with the comments made by Dr Gwyn Williams, Member of the Senedd, and does the questioner align with Plaid's measuring of NHS staff performance? 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767655 199 En 2026-07-14T14:56:54 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=5216&l=en 260714-3 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution C 12140 12140 Dafydd Trystan Davies https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12140 Trystan Davies, Dafydd Thank you for that question and those choice quotes. I haven't had the pleasure of reading Eye News yet, but I'm sure the library will provide me with a copy in due course so that I may read the whole article in context. I think there's an interesting issue here around public sector absence and how you work with people to tackle that absence. This may not win favour with the opposition benches there, but I had a very interesting conversation with colleagues from the trade unions about a health board that had proactively put an absence management team in to support people to return to work more effectively and quicker and, in light of that, saw a significant fall in absence rates. So, it can be done, working with staff. Our NHS professionals are ones that want to serve the NHS, and I believe that collaborative and co-operative work is rather better than potentially sending people to the gulag. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767670 200 Cy 260714-3 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution B Wales as Part of the UK 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767671 201 Cy 260714-3 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution O 12157 12157 Art Wright https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12157 Wright, Art 5. What assessment has the Cabinet Minister made of the benefits for Wales of being part of the United Kingdom? OQ64386 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767672 202 En 2026-07-14T14:58:15 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=5297&l=en 260714-3 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution C 12140 12140 Dafydd Trystan Davies https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12140 Trystan Davies, Dafydd Thank you for the question. The assessment I have undertaken concludes that the United Kingdom is a deeply unequal and unfair state with too much power and wealth concentrated in London and the south-east of England to the detriment of Wales and other parts of the UK, as indeed has been noted by Members of this Senedd across this Senedd in debates in recent weeks. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767678 203 En 2026-07-14T14:58:47 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=5329&l=en 260714-3 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution C 12157 12157 Art Wright https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12157 Wright, Art Minister, the most recent available data published by the Office for National Statistics demonstrates that the net fiscal deficit for Wales in 2024-25 was between £22 billion and £23 billion, the second largest fiscal deficit per person of any country or region in the United Kingdom. Only Northern Ireland had a larger per capita fiscal deficit. Expenditure per capita in Wales in 2024-25 was higher than the UK average, while revenue per capita was below the UK average. Has the Welsh Government made any assessment as to the net public sector fiscal balance in Wales for the 2025-26 fiscal year, and does the Minister accept that Wales is a net fiscal beneficiary of the United Kingdom's fiscal transfers? 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767682 204 En 2026-07-14T14:59:43 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=5385&l=en 260714-3 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution C 12140 12140 Dafydd Trystan Davies https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12140 Trystan Davies, Dafydd Thank you for the question. As somebody who is a fan of net fiscal statistics, it is plainly evident that Wales is a net fiscal beneficiary of the United Kingdom. But I put this to the Member: isn't that a remarkable indictment of the United Kingdom's stewardship of this country that we call home, that we remain one of the poorest parts of the United Kingdom, we remain an area where child poverty is at its highest, where our economic development is behind, where our wage growth is behind? The Member has usefully highlighted the truth of the United Kingdom, and if he'd like some figures, let me tell him, too, about some smaller independent successful countries. Since 2014, New Zealand has seen a 30 per cent growth in gross domestic product, Latvia has seen a 20 per cent growth in GDP, Slovenia 33 per cent, Slovakia—Slovakia, from the former eastern bloc—27 per cent, where the UK has seen growth of 15 per cent. Small, independent, successful countries. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767683 205 En 2026-07-14T15:00:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=5402&l=en 260714-3 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution C 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767691 206 En 2026-07-14T15:01:10 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=5472&l=en 260714-3 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution C 12173 12173 Nick Carter https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12173 Carter, Nick For nearly 50 years, successive UK Governments, Conservatives and Labour, have followed Margaret Thatcher's broken neoliberal ideology—[Interruption.]—which puts profit before people. Our national utilities have been sold off at a fraction of their value—[Interruption.]—and tens of billions of pounds of dividends have been extracted. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767693 207 En 2026-07-14T15:01:30 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=5492&l=en 260714-3 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution C 12177 12177 Kerry Ferguson https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12177 Deputy Presiding Officer Ferguson, Kerry Can you give the Member a chance to read his question, because I can't hear it from here? Please start again, Nick. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767695 208 En 2026-07-14T15:01:37 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=5499&l=en 260714-3 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution C 12173 12173 Nick Carter https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12173 Carter, Nick For nearly 50 years, successive UK Governments, Conservative and Labour, have followed Margaret Thatcher's broken neoliberal ideology that puts profit before people. Our national utilities have been sold off at a fraction of their value, and tens of billions of pounds of dividends have been extracted. The French Government now owns our nuclear power industry. A Czech billionaire owns the Royal Mail. Here in Cymru, our heavy industry and the communities it supported have been abandoned, while Westminster is spending £100 billion on HS2 for half a railway that costs more than NASA's mission to the moon. Then there are the scandals: PFI, PPE, the sale of MOD homes, not to mention an illegal war in Iraq, 20 wasted years in Afghanistan, and now complicity in Israel's genocide in Gaza. So, on the contrary, Cabinet Minister, what assessment is being made into the benefit to Wales of not being part of the United Kingdom? Diolch. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767698 209 En 2026-07-14T15:02:41 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=5563&l=en 260714-3 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution C 12140 12140 Dafydd Trystan Davies https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12140 Trystan Davies, Dafydd I thank the Member for the question. I think I'd probably add to his list that we should also note that the UK has been responsible for a decade of austerity, which has led to the unravelling of the fabric of our society: community centres, leisure centres, banks, libraries and all those facilities that are the beating heart of Welsh communities. Now, let me be clear: whether Wales should or should not be part of the UK is a question for the people of Wales, and for the people of Wales alone. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767702 210 En 2026-07-14T15:03:14 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=5596&l=en 260714-3 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution C 332 332 Mike Hedges https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=332 Hedges, Mike [Inaudible.]—now? 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767703 211 En 2026-07-14T15:03:16 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=5598&l=en 260714-3 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution C 12140 12140 Dafydd Trystan Davies https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12140 Trystan Davies, Dafydd No, thank you, Mike. We answered that question several times in our previous session, I believe. But for my part, I want to see our nation empowered so that more decisions are taken in Wales for the benefit of Wales. This would mean greater control over fiscal levers, over natural resources, over the Crown Estate, justice, policing, welfare and rail. Put simply, Wales shouldn't be denied the powers granted to Scotland, so that the primary driver of policy making is the best interests of our community, not the vested interests so entrenched in the broken Westminster system. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767704 212 Cy 260714-3 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution B The Devolution of Powers over Water 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767705 213 Cy 260714-3 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution O 4967 4967 Lyn Ackerman https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=4967 Ackerman, Lyn 6. What discussions is the Cabinet Minister having with the UK Government regarding the devolution of powers over water to Wales? OQ64382 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767706 214 En 2026-07-14T15:04:09 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=5651&l=en 260714-3 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution C 12140 12140 Dafydd Trystan Davies https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12140 Trystan Davies, Dafydd We are working closely with the UK Government on their forthcoming clean water Bill to ensure that the final proposals avoid any regulatory gaps, establish the powers needed for a new Welsh regulator and support effective cross-border working arrangements where these are required. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767711 215 En 2026-07-14T15:04:26 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=5668&l=en 260714-3 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution C 4967 4967 Lyn Ackerman https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=4967 Ackerman, Lyn Before I ask my supplementary, I declare my registered interest as a former employee of Abercarn rugby club. Abercarn welfare ground shows the real impact that flooding and sewerage contamination has on a community. The ground supports rugby, football and cricket. Sewage has surfaced on the field and pitches have sat unusable for weeks at a time, disrupting local sports and raising clear public health and environmental concerns. The wider issue is ageing sewerage infrastructure, polluted waterways, flood risk and contaminated land, with community facilities left to carry the consequences when systems fail. What discussions is the Cabinet Secretary having with Dŵr Cymru Welsh Water, National Resources Wales, Caerphilly County Borough Council and the UK Government to bring forward plans with clear deadlines for Abercarn welfare ground, covering testing, clean-up, public health advice and long-term sewerage and drainage works, and what is the Welsh Government doing to secure the powers, regulation and resources needed to stop sewage contamination and flooding from damaging community facilities in the future?  16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767609 216 En 2026-07-14T15:05:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=5702&l=en 260714-3 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution C 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767625 217 En 2026-07-14T15:05:39 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=5741&l=en 260714-3 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution C 12140 12140 Dafydd Trystan Davies https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12140 Trystan Davies, Dafydd I thank the Member, whose made a very clear question and statement about the dangers of sewage and the very real impact on communities and community facilities, and for that very reason, we are seeking to take control of water in Wales. Our approach is to work collaboratively with the UK Government, focusing on practical delivery and maintaining system stability. The Cabinet Minister for Rural Resilience and Sustainability is meeting Minister Hardy from the UK Government this Thursday to progress those discussions. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767635 218 En 2026-07-14T15:06:19 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=5781&l=en 260714-3 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution C 12181 12181 Adrian Mason https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12181 Mason, Adrian Cabinet Minister, across Wales, people are struggling with the cost of water bills. They're not interested in devolution or additional devolution. They're more interested in the increase of their bills by 27 per cent. Cabinet Minister, as you're well aware, water networks in Wales cross the Wales and English border. In light of this, what clear problems would devolution solve, and how would this improve services or cut bills for the Welsh household? 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767638 219 En 2026-07-14T15:06:50 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=5812&l=en 260714-3 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution C 12140 12140 Dafydd Trystan Davies https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12140 Trystan Davies, Dafydd We are committed to working with a new Welsh water regulator to improve sewage discharges in Wales, to bring down bills in Wales. The performance of water companies right across the UK has not been good enough in recent years, and I think that has led to the UK position where we're moving towards a UK clean Water bill. I've been pleased with the engagement we've had with colleagues in the UK Government—productive, collaborative engagement—to ensure that we have the powers in Wales to deliver a better deal for people in Wales on water, as on many other matters.  16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767645 220 Cy 260714-3 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution B The Well-being of Future Generations Framework 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767646 221 Cy 260714-3 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution O 12155 12155 Leticia Gonzalez https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12155 Gonzalez, Leticia 7. How is the Cabinet Minister working across Welsh Government departments to implement the seven well-being goals set out in the well-being of future generations framework? OQ64385 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767647 222 En 2026-07-14T15:07:43 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=5865&l=en 260714-3 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution C 12140 12140 Dafydd Trystan Davies https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12140 Trystan Davies, Dafydd All Ministers have a duty to promote sustainable development throughout our work. We are committed to working collaboratively to deliver our requirements under the Well-being of Future Generations (Wales) Act 2015, and it's central to the way policy options are developed across the Welsh Government and in the advice provided to Ministers. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767649 223 En 2026-07-14T15:07:58 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=5880&l=en 260714-3 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution C 12155 12155 Leticia Gonzalez https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12155 Gonzalez, Leticia Thank you. Active travel as a preventative health measure is to be encouraged within communities. This also plays across a number of well-being goals, such as a healthier Wales, a Wales of cohesive communities and a globally responsible Wales. Will such activity be included in the proposals to improve measurable outcomes of our well-being goals to help assess the impacts of such measures? 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767657 224 En 2026-07-14T15:08:25 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=5907&l=en 260714-3 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution C 12140 12140 Dafydd Trystan Davies https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12140 Trystan Davies, Dafydd Thank you to the Member for the question. Colleagues will know that I have in the past taken some interest in matters of active travel, but I know my colleague the Deputy Minister for Transport is developing plans across the whole range of transport interventions. But the approach of the well-being Act is to embed issues like active travel right across Government, in the ways of working and in delivering on the seven well-being goals. It is important for me in active travel, as in all of the issues we face, to ask the question, 'What outcomes are changing?'—not how much money is being spent on something, but are more people, in that case, walking and cycling? 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767665 225 Cy 260714-3 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution B Reforming the Funding Formula 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767666 226 Cy 260714-3 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution O 518 518 Lindsay Whittle https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=518 Whittle, Lindsay 8. What discussions has the Cabinet Minister had with the Cabinet Minister for Finance regarding delivering the Government's priority of reforming the funding formula for Wales? OQ64384 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767667 227 En 2026-07-14T15:09:26 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=5968&l=en 260714-3 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution C 12140 12140 Dafydd Trystan Davies https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12140 Trystan Davies, Dafydd I'm working closely with the Cabinet Minister for Finance to ensure reform of Wales’s funding arrangements, and that is at the forefront of our engagement with the UK Government. I raised fair funding at a meeting of UK Ministers at the Interministerial Standing Committee on 24 June in Belfast. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767669 228 En 2026-07-14T15:09:44 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=5986&l=en 260714-3 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution C 518 518 Lindsay Whittle https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=518 Whittle, Lindsay Thank you, Minister. This underscores a truth known that decisions about Wales must be made in Wales. Devolution is about the reality on our doorsteps, our schools, our hospitals, our right to shape our own future and the right to control our own resources. Now, having served in local government for just close on 50 years as a councillor, I have seen the damage first-hand. Our councils are stretched to the limit and public services are under unprecedented strain. It is time now to demand a system that works for Wales, not one that holds us back. Minister, what other steps can you take, as a Welsh Government, to push, as a matter of extreme urgency, in my opinion, for the replacement of the current funding formula, which is limiting the full potential of devolution? Together, this Senedd, with all of the councils across Wales, could be a united force to ensure better funding for our country. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767634 229 En 2026-07-14T15:10:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=6002&l=en 260714-3 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution C 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767686 230 En 2026-07-14T15:12:56 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=6178&l=en 260714-3 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution C 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767650 231 En 2026-07-14T15:10:47 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=6049&l=en 260714-3 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution C 12140 12140 Dafydd Trystan Davies https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12140 Trystan Davies, Dafydd Thank you for the question. I very much hope that this Senedd and councils across Wales will speak with one voice, securing fair funding for Wales. We will continue to press the UK Government for improvements to the current funding arrangements, through discussions on the wider fiscal framework and inter-governmental finance mechanisms. I should say to the Senedd that in our initial discussions with colleagues from the UK Government, they have been co-operative and collaborative, and that forms a sound basis, I think, for future engagement. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767661 232 En 2026-07-14T15:11:23 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=6085&l=en 260714-3 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution C 12183 12183 Tom Montgomery https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12183 Montomery, Tom As I've already spoken on in this Chamber, councils are in real financial distress. We are seeing massive increases in council tax, growing debt bubbles and serious service cuts. This is why the Government's plan to review the funding formula is so important. However, as with everything, Minister, detail is key. Strong words and bold promises aren't enough. So, with local government on tenterhooks waiting for this review, can you tell us how you intend to review the formula? What components are you looking to change and, most importantly, how will the Welsh Government define success when it's reviewing the formula? What does a successful review look like to the Welsh Government? Minister, this place and, most importantly, local government need answers. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767677 233 En 2026-07-14T15:12:09 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=6131&l=en 260714-3 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution C 12140 12140 Dafydd Trystan Davies https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12140 Trystan Davies, Dafydd I thank the Member for the question. I think there are two fiscal—. I mean, we are ambitious—we're aiming for two funding reforms at the moment. There's the funding reform that the Welsh Government seeks from the UK Government, for which I take responsibility, working with my colleague the Cabinet Minister for Finance, and we are pressing the UK Government for progress there. My colleague the local government Minister is working on the funding system to ensure fairness right across our councils for local authorities in Wales. But I do very much hear the point about the pressure on local authority budgets in Wales, which I am sure my colleague will be taking into account as that work develops. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767780 234 Cy 2026-07-14T15:12:50 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=6172&l=en 260714-3 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution C 12177 12177 Kerry Ferguson https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12177 Deputy Presiding Officer Ferguson, Kerry And the final question, Minister, question 9, Sarah Rees. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767688 235 Cy 260714-3 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution B Implementing Existing Legislation 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767689 236 Cy 260714-3 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution O 5196 5196 Sarah Rees https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=5196 Rees, Sarah 9. How will the Cabinet Minister work with public services boards to ensure that existing legislation is implemented more efficiently across public services? OQ64381 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767690 237 En 2026-07-14T15:13:05 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=6187&l=en 260714-3 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution C 12140 12140 Dafydd Trystan Davies https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12140 Trystan Davies, Dafydd Public services boards are central to bringing public service partners together to collaborate on assessing and addressing the well-being needs of their areas. I will work closely with all public services board chairs to provide national support and ensure their implementation is efficient in enacting existing legislation. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767692 238 En 2026-07-14T15:13:24 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=6206&l=en 260714-3 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution C 5196 5196 Sarah Rees https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=5196 Rees, Sarah Minister, the Social Services and Well-being (Wales) Act 2014 gives unpaid carers the same legal rights as the people they care for. It promises a carer's needs assessment and clear information and advice to help them in their caring role. But the reality is very different. Very few unpaid carers actually receive those assessments, and even fewer get the statutory support that they are entitled to after them. A new round of population needs assessments is under development for May 2027, but if unpaid carers don’t receive the support that they’re entitled to, more are at risk of being pushed into poverty, their health deteriorating and having to give up or cut back on paid work. What will this new Government do to ensure that public services boards, regional partnership boards and others use these plans to close the implementation gap in the social services and well-being Act and finally deliver on the promises that were made to unpaid carers over a decade ago? 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767696 239 En 2026-07-14T15:14:18 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=6260&l=en 260714-3 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution C 12140 12140 Dafydd Trystan Davies https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12140 Trystan Davies, Dafydd I thank the Member for the question. My understanding, and colleagues will be aware, is that the public sector, the PSBs and the regional partnership boards are separate bodies that have separate responsibilities, and, as such, the RPBs, established under the social services and well-being Act, are the responsibility of the Cabinet Minister for Health and Care. However, recently I’ve been looking at how we might tie together more effectively the work of the public services boards and the regional partnership boards, because what’s been happening here is that assessments of the local community needs have been happening by one board at a given timescale and not necessarily on the same, consistent data, and then by another set of people, for the same area or for a very similar area, at the same time. So, I'm working with colleagues in Government to make progress as to how we might better use evidence—use the same evidence, use robust, independent data—to build more effective performance from both the regional partnership boards and the PSBs. I hope that that kind of work will then lead to improvements in both social services and in public services more generally. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767623 240 En 2026-07-14T15:15:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=6302&l=en 260714-3 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution C 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767644 241 Cy 2026-07-14T15:15:41 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=6343&l=en 260714-3 2. Questions to the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution C 12177 12177 Kerry Ferguson https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12177 Deputy Presiding Officer Ferguson, Kerry Thank you, Minister. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767652 242 Cy 2026-07-14T15:15:43 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=6345&l=en 260714-4 3. Business Statement and Announcement C 12177 12177 Kerry Ferguson https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12177 Deputy Presiding Officer Ferguson, Kerry Item 3 is the business statement and announcement. I call on the Trefnydd, Heledd Fychan. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767658 243 Cy 2026-07-14T15:15:49 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=6351&l=en 260714-4 3. Business Statement and Announcement C 426 426 Heledd Fychan https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=426 Trefnydd, Chief Whip and Cabinet Minister for Culture and Sport Fychan, Heledd Thank you, Dirprwy Lywydd. There are no changes to this week's business. Draft Plenary business for the first three sitting weeks of the autumn term is shown on the business statement, which is available to Members electronically. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767676 244 En 2026-07-14T15:16:04 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=6366&l=en 260714-4 3. Business Statement and Announcement C 11971 11971 Llŷr Powell https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=11971 Powell, Llyr Members will have seen yesterday that the Scarlets signed a new deal with the Welsh Rugby Union, but, rather than seen as a success, it was described on the BBC as 'peace is temporary'. Welsh rugby is in an uncertain time, especially its professional side. Now, I found myself on a side where I was agreeing with the Deputy First Minister when she said to the Chamber, on 3 February 2026: 'It’s disappointing that the Welsh Government has failed to recognise its role in the matter'. She also then went on to say, 'it’s not good enough for them'— the Welsh Government— 'to wash their hands of the matter.' Now, I wrote a written question to you, Trefnydd, with your other ministerial hat on as the Minister for sport, in which I asked you if you'd spoken to the WRU and will you step in and protect the regions. You wrote back to me saying that decisions on the future of the game in Wales are a matter for the WRU. So, I was interested, Deputy Llywydd, if the Minister would come to the Chamber when we come back and state what the Welsh Government's position now is. Because Plaid Cymru seemed to say one thing when they weren't in power and are saying something totally different now. Can the people of Wales have assurances that the national game will be protected and that their voices will be heard when the Government steps in? 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767687 245 Cy 2026-07-14T15:17:28 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=6450&l=en 260714-4 3. Business Statement and Announcement C 426 426 Heledd Fychan https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=426 Fychan, Heledd Well, I'm pleased that the Member appreciates that I'm answering as Trefnydd today. And you'll be pleased to hear that there are questions to me very early in September, and, hopefully, you'll be successful in the ballot so that you can ask me a question. So, I very much hope that that opportunity arises. But I do hope that it's been unambiguous already that this Government sees the importance of sport, that we recognise all of the governing bodies. Clearly, we respect the arm's length principle, but when we need to scrutinise, we have scrutinised. As an opposition party, we did that; I was very robust as part of the culture and sport committee, where we did question and scrutinise the WRU, and that sort of relationship. We know how much rugby means to the people of Wales. It's important, as I have said on a number of occasions, that the WRU has a relationship and trust with its communities. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767708 246 Cy 2026-07-14T15:18:29 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=6511&l=en 260714-4 3. Business Statement and Announcement C 350 350 Marc Jones https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=350 Jones, Marc Trefnydd, Penley school has closed its swimming pool because of running costs. This means that some of the nine cluster schools cannot get access to swimming lessons and some can't afford a bus to go to the closest swimming pool. I know that the Government understands how essential it is to teach children to swim, as is clear in the commitment to introduce a national swimming and water safety programme and 20 swimming and water safety lessons for all pupils in years 4 and 5. The fact that this swimming pool is closed to pupils is a cause of great concern for the community. Could we have a statement from the relevant Minister on ensuring that there are no children left without access to swimming lessons due to financial costs? 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767718 247 Cy 2026-07-14T15:19:20 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=6562&l=en 260714-4 3. Business Statement and Announcement C 426 426 Heledd Fychan https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=426 Fychan, Heledd Thank you very much to the Member for raising that important issue. As with the previous question, clearly, I am answering as Trefnydd today, but it is relevant in terms of the debate later today on the supplementary budget, because, clearly, there is £2 million allocated in that supplementary budget to start to address the challenges facing schools, and a percentage of that funding will be for travel costs. In addition to that, there is a Government commitment to carry out an analysis of all of the sports assets, including swimming pools, that we have across Wales to truly understand (1) what's been lost and (2) what is at risk of being lost, because many of our swimming pools are very old, in order to put a long-term plan into place. Everyone should have access to swimming lessons. Everyone in Wales should have access to swimming pools. But, unfortunately, there have been cuts, and that's why this work must proceed. I would encourage any Member here today who is passionate, as am I and as is my party, about ensuring that every child in primary school in Wales has a right to access swimming lessons free of charge, in order to learn such an important skill, to support the supplementary budget today. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767680 248 Cy 2026-07-14T15:20:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=6602&l=en 260714-4 3. Business Statement and Announcement C 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767694 249 En 2026-07-14T15:20:45 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=6647&l=en 260714-4 3. Business Statement and Announcement C 5038 5038 Jayne Bryant https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=5038 Bryant, Jayne Once again, yesterday, trains on the Ebbw Vale line stopping in Newport were cancelled. Transport for Wales said this was due to more trains than usual needing repairs, and this is not the first time that this has happened. I know how disruptive these cancellations are for local people, and this is in addition to frequently overcrowded trains due to the limited number of carriages. People rely on these trains to get to work and college, and delays and cancellations have a big impact. It does seem that every time there is a problem on another part of the network it is this line that is most often hit. This is not fair and has a disproportionate impact on people relying on the Ebbw Vale line. I'd like to hear from the transport Minister how he will ensure a full and regular service on the Ebbw Vale line. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767701 250 Cy 2026-07-14T15:21:35 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=6697&l=en 260714-4 3. Business Statement and Announcement C 426 426 Heledd Fychan https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=426 Fychan, Heledd Thank you for raising that important issue. I would encourage you to write specifically to the Deputy Minister for Transport regarding local issues, but, certainly, this is what we've inherited. There are problems that we need to tackle. We also know that the extreme weather has had an effect on transport, particularly trains, during this heatwave. We know that there are a number of things and challenges that we are tackling and addressing, and the Deputy Minister has already outlined some of our priorities, but there will be more, of course, as well. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767707 251 En 2026-07-14T15:22:08 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=6730&l=en 260714-4 3. Business Statement and Announcement C 336 336 Natasha Asghar https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=336 Asghar, Natasha Business Minister, can I please request a Government statement about the Supreme Court's clear ruling that sex means biological sex only? I'm sure you'll appreciate that sporting opportunities for women and girls are vitally important for their health, social inclusion and development. Yet the Football Association of Wales, a body that receives significant and ongoing Welsh Government investment, continues to operate an eligibility policy that allows some men to play in the women's game whilst girls have no category to call their own. Following the Supreme Court's judgment on 16 April 2025, the Scottish Football Association acted within 14 days to uphold the Equality Act 2010 protections for the female game. The English Football Association followed just one day later with a legally compliant policy in place. It is now over 445 days since the judgment, yet women in Wales are still waiting for any announcement on their own sporting category. Silence from the Football Association of Wales prompted the Women's Rights Network Wales to meet with the CEO, Noel Mooney, last year. They were assured that FAW intended to review their policy, but also that the organisation felt it necessary to wait for guidance from the Welsh Government. Will the Welsh Government now take responsibility and explicitly direct Sport Wales to inform the FAW that maintaining a fair, sex-segregated category is not optional but a fundamental requirement for any organisation receiving public funding, to ensure that women and girls can enjoy fair opportunity and fair participation in their own sport? A statement from the Welsh Government addressing the above points would be greatly appreciated. Thank you. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767719 252 Cy 2026-07-14T15:23:34 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=6816&l=en 260714-4 3. Business Statement and Announcement C 426 426 Heledd Fychan https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=426 Fychan, Heledd The Member will be aware that she's received a number of responses from the Government on this issue that the Government has ensured that we will comply with the law in full and that work is ongoing. That assurance has been provided. I reiterate that today, and I very much hope that the Member will realise that that commitment has been made time and time again by this Government.  16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767727 253 En 2026-07-14T15:24:03 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=6845&l=en 260714-4 3. Business Statement and Announcement C 8585 8585 James Evans https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=8585 Evans, James I'd like a statement from you, Trefnydd, in your capacity as the Minister for culture, on how the books council funds news outlets in Wales. One such news outlet approached me this week asking for the location of a family home. They have also asked other members of the group that I sit in for the names of their family members and also their homes as well and details of their addresses and family members. They say they don't want to publish it, but why ask for it in the first place? I was also told that they have sources who have been to my home and can tell them exactly where I live. They also said they wouldn't publish that, but I can inform you, Trefnydd, and the Senedd, that I've passed it on to Senedd security with the hope of them passing it on to South Wales Police. With attacks on politicians on the rise, and the sad murder of Ann Widdecombe this week, asking for this level of detail is totally unacceptable. So, will you please bring forward a statement on the funding that the books council provides to these news outlets to ensure that they are not putting any politicians at any undue risk or harm?  16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767697 254 En 2026-07-14T15:25:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=6902&l=en 260714-4 3. Business Statement and Announcement C 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767700 255 Cy 2026-07-14T15:25:12 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=6914&l=en 260714-4 3. Business Statement and Announcement C 426 426 Heledd Fychan https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=426 Fychan, Heledd Thank you. Clearly, there is a duty on all of us to consider the safety of our fellow Members and to consider the safety of everybody in our society. Clearly, the media has an important role to consider that. There is a duty on each one of us also. Clearly, Welsh Government is supporting journalism, but at arm's length; there are processes and a code in terms of behaviour or ethos, to ensure, with Ipsos and so forth—. I think the Member, with any complaints, is right, if you're worried about your safety, to go to the police as well. If you'd like to write to me with more detail, because, in my role as Trefnydd and Chief Whip, I do take seriously the safety of Members and try also to have consensus between parties on how—[Interruption.] I'm sorry; I am answering the Member here. And I have said if he wants to write to me also with more detail, because I don't have all the details, so I'm sure the Member will appreciate that—. If you'd like to write to me with more detail, I will make sure that we look into that. But I also make this plea that we as parties here look at how we can work together to ensure the safety of each other, to ensure the safety of everybody that we represent, and take that responsibility seriously as well. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767716 256 En 2026-07-14T15:26:47 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=7009&l=en 260714-4 3. Business Statement and Announcement C 12186 12186 Beca Brown https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12186 Brown, Beca Trefnydd, could I possibly request a statement from the Cabinet Member for Rural Resilience and Sustainability on the fact that greyhounds were allowed to race at Valley track last week at temperatures reaching 30 degrees, when the advice of vets is not to even walk your dogs at temperatures of 21 degrees or above? What assessment has the Welsh Government made of the welfare implications for greyhounds racing in these extreme temperatures? 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767722 257 En 2026-07-14T15:27:15 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=7037&l=en 260714-4 3. Business Statement and Announcement C 426 426 Heledd Fychan https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=426 Fychan, Heledd Well, thank you for raising that. Obviously, many Members here will have been sharing those warnings about not walking dogs or taking care of animals and livestock during the extreme weather, and greyhounds are no exception. The welfare of greyhounds must be a primary consideration whenever racing takes place, including during periods of hot weather. We know the high temperatures can present additional welfare risks for racing dogs, which is why it is important that track operators carefully assess local conditions and implement appropriate measures to protect animal welfare. Those responsible for racing greyhounds also have a duty to monitor dogs closely, ensuring access to shade and water, and, as a Government, we would expect any decisions relating to racing in hot weather to be informed by veterinary—oh, sorry—veterinary advice—veterinary, sorry, advice; you can tell I usually say that word in Welsh—and welfare considerations for the specific circumstances at the track. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767729 258 En 2026-07-14T15:28:16 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=7098&l=en 260714-4 3. Business Statement and Announcement C 12158 12158 Jason O'Connell https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12158 O'Connell, Jason Diolch, Deputy Llywydd. Can I have a statement from the housing Minister on the latest housing policy for women fleeing abusive relationships? A few weeks ago I met with Grace Andellten, a brave and courageous domestic abuse survivor. From her harrowing experience, she found the strength to write a book to help other women in the same situation. Now her book is a powerful testimony of her story. She survived sexual assault, physical assault, coercive control, as well as being pursued, after leaving the relationship, by her ex-partner. She's personally reached out to all Members of the Senedd to seek support, but, instead of taking up her recommendations for Georgia's Law, around rapid rehousing for working women fleeing high-risk abuse, many Members of this Senedd and the previous Senedd have chosen to ignore her cries for help. Trefnydd, domestic violence is not party political. We all have a duty to act in this Chamber, so I've written a letter to the Cabinet Minister for housing relaying her concerns, and, in the meantime, it would be much appreciated if everybody here went online and enacted the support for women fleeing violent relationships they so desperately deserve. Diolch. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767730 259 En 2026-07-14T15:29:27 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=7169&l=en 260714-4 3. Business Statement and Announcement C 426 426 Heledd Fychan https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=426 Fychan, Heledd Thank you to the Member for raising such an important issue. Obviously, the Deputy First Minister is here as well, and, in terms of our commitment as a Government to eradicating any violence, that is paramount. I will ensure that I flag to the Cabinet Minister for housing that you have written to her and ask that you have a full response. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767735 260 En 2026-07-14T15:29:52 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=7194&l=en 260714-4 3. Business Statement and Announcement C 174 174 Lynne Neagle https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=174 Neagle, Lynne Trefnydd, yesterday the Association of School and College Leaders and the National Association of Head Teachers notified the Welsh Government that they are declaring a trade dispute with the Welsh Government, citing additional learning needs funding as one of the reasons for that dispute. They are asking for ACAS to now be involved to resolve this matter with the Government. This comes at the same time as the National Education Union are also undertaking an indicative ballot, based on concerns they have about Welsh Government's approach to funding. This is an unprecedented situation for this Welsh Government to be in, just 64 days into your first 100 days. I'd like to ask for a statement from the Cabinet Minister for Education and Welsh Language on what steps will be taken to resolve these disputes with our trade union partners, so that we can ensure that the needs of children and young people are met. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767699 261 En 2026-07-14T15:30:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=7202&l=en 260714-4 3. Business Statement and Announcement C 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767710 262 En 2026-07-14T15:31:02 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=7264&l=en 260714-4 3. Business Statement and Announcement C 426 426 Heledd Fychan https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=426 Fychan, Heledd The Member will be aware that there is an offer on the table, and a subsequent offer made since the unions made contact, that is more than what was on the table had Labour been re-elected to lead this Welsh Government. So, very clearly, there is now a pathway this afternoon for yourselves, ourselves, to join forces and unlock the substantial additional funding for ALN this year and in future years. That is within our power today: £40 million for ALN today; £40 million the following year; £40 million—[Interruption.] More than the £9 million you had on the table. So, we can play politics or we can think of those children with additional learning needs. We can work together for those children with additional learning needs and put in place a plan that is workable, deliverable and meaningful. That is your choice today, and I really hope that you make the right choice. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767712 263 Cy 2026-07-14T15:32:14 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=7336&l=en 260714-4 3. Business Statement and Announcement C 5084 5084 Mair Rowlands https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=5084 Rowlands, Mair I'd like to ask for a statement from the Cabinet Minister for Rural Resilience and Sustainability on the major fire in the Sychnant pass area on Conwy mountain over the weekend. I'm pleased now that the severity of the incident has been reduced by the fire service, and those who had to leave their homes have been able to return. I would like to place on record my thanks to all of the emergency services and the neighbouring communities that responded so swiftly to this crisis and supported those in need. There are some short-term concerns that remain, such as the impact that this will have on air quality locally, but, more fundamentally, the incident on Conwy mountain over the weekend, as well as the incident in Braichmelyn forest in Bethesda, raises serious long-term questions. I would appreciate a statement from the Minister, therefore, outlining any support that may be available to the communities affected by the incidents over the weekend, and the steps that will be taken to prevent similar incidents happening in the future. Thank you. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767720 264 Cy 2026-07-14T15:33:13 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=7395&l=en 260714-4 3. Business Statement and Announcement C 426 426 Heledd Fychan https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=426 Fychan, Heledd I thank the Member for raising this very important issue. I'm sure that we've all been shocked to see the pictures on the television. For those residents, it's difficult to imagine the severe damage. I share the comments made by the Member, in terms of paying tribute not only to the firefighters, but everyone who was part of the response in north Wales, who worked together to keep people and communities safe. Significant progress has been made in terms of bringing the number of wildfires under control. As the Member mentioned, the general situation has improved, but we do know that this, unfortunately, is one of the effects of climate change now. It's an issue that we as a Government are giving attention to, deservedly, and we're looking across Government, as you heard from the First Minister earlier today. With the temperatures we're experiencing in Wales now, we need to be completely united, I think, as a Senedd, in terms of how we're going to respond to the increasing likelihood of wildfires. The impact that this has, as you said, in terms of health is significant, and in terms of wildlife and nature is significant. We, therefore, have to ensure that that plan is in place. And if there is specific support that residents have engaged with the Member about that you want to engage with us as a Government about, I'd encourage you to engage with the relevant Government Ministers. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767728 265 En 2026-07-14T15:34:51 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=7493&l=en 260714-4 3. Business Statement and Announcement C 12157 12157 Art Wright https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12157 Wright, Art Trefnydd, the Bassaleg residents of Forge Mews have been abandoned from the life we all know for close to five years. The old Bassaleg bridge was deemed to be unfit to be unfit for use, leaving the residents with no direct access to their properties other than on foot. Newport City Council have attempted to resolve the matter, but due to funding needs denied by the former Welsh Labour Government in the last Senedd, they are still locked out of normal life, with a resolution still to be found. Imagine, Minister, five years of having to walk home instead of arriving on your own doorstep, five years of having to factor in extra travel time for work or school runs, five years of having to rely on emergency access for fire, ambulance and police support delaying response times, and five years of seeing your house price fall in value, locking you into negative equity. Those residents don't have to imagine; it's their lived reality. To add insult to injury, the council has not even offered them a reduction in their council tax across the last five years, despite a clear lack of services for them. Will the Cabinet Minister for Local Government, Housing and Planning agree to meet with me and the resident body to find a lasting solution to their plight? 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767709 266 En 2026-07-14T15:35:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=7502&l=en 260714-4 3. Business Statement and Announcement C 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767732 267 Cy 2026-07-14T15:36:17 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=7579&l=en 260714-4 3. Business Statement and Announcement C 426 426 Heledd Fychan https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=426 Fychan, Heledd I thank the Member for advocating on behalf of the residents so robustly there. We are aware as a Government of this issue and we also recognise the impact on residents. I know that the Deputy Minister for Transport is also aware of this issue. I would encourage you to write to him, as well as the Cabinet Minister for local government. Clearly, the Deputy Minister has been here to hear your comments, but I will also ensure that the Cabinet Minister for local government is also made aware. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767734 268 Cy 2026-07-14T15:36:50 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=7612&l=en 260714-4 3. Business Statement and Announcement C 12149 12149 Lis McLean https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12149 McLean, Lis Trefnydd, I'd like to ask for a statement from the Cabinet Minister for Local Government, Housing and Planning. Community right to buy is an important step towards ensuring that local communities across Wales have the agency and the ability to invest in their own futures and to design them. Assets that are owned by communities and that are managed by them can inspire enterprise, create opportunities and help to transform lives. But significant barriers continue in terms of ensuring that local voices are heard and that community interests are safeguarded through legislation. It's possible that we will hear something from the First Minister soon when he will outline the Government's legislative programme. But, given the importance of community right to buy to communities across Wales, could the Trefnydd arrange a statement by the Cabinet Minister for Local Government, Housing and Planning, to note the Welsh Government's detailed plans for a community right to buy Bill, and when we can expect it to be introduced before the Senedd? 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767737 269 Cy 2026-07-14T15:38:05 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=7687&l=en 260714-4 3. Business Statement and Announcement C 426 426 Heledd Fychan https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=426 Fychan, Heledd Thank you very much for raising an issue of real importance, something I know that many in this Senedd are concerned about and are passionate about. Certainly, there was a clear commitment in the Plaid Cymru manifesto—and that strong commitment remains within Plaid Cymru—to ensure that the community right to buy does become law. I'm not going to be attempting to make any statements before we hear from the First Minister later this afternoon, but, certainly, I hope that that unambiguous commitment on the importance of that has been made clear by me this afternoon. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767741 270 En 2026-07-14T15:38:48 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=7730&l=en 260714-4 3. Business Statement and Announcement C 12191 12191 Steven Rodaway https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12191 Rodaway, Steven Trefnydd, can I request an answer on the Welsh Government's programme for identifying and eliminating waste spending across departments? As this Plaid Cymru Government continues to look down the back of every departmental sofa in search of the money needed to prove its so-called fully funded manifesto commitments are in fact fully funded, what reviews have been initiated or completed to identify duplication, unnecessary bureaucracy, inefficient spending and programmes that are no longer delivering value for taxpayers, including any legacy issues inherited from the previous Government? Given that the Government has now been in office for over 60 days, there has been ample opportunity to begin this work. What waste has already been identified and corrected? What further efficiencies are planned? When will the Government publish a report so that Members and the people of Wales can scrutinise the findings and see how taxpayers' money has been saved and spent more effectively? 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767744 271 Cy 2026-07-14T15:39:44 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=7786&l=en 260714-4 3. Business Statement and Announcement C 426 426 Heledd Fychan https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=426 Fychan, Heledd I thank the Member for that. Evidently, the First Minister was asked about this issue earlier today. We've also had the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution. What I can state very clearly to every Member here is that we, as Ministers, started that scrutiny work on day one, questioning every budget line as soon as we had access to the whole range of information. That analysis continues. We have further work to do over the summer, but the difference that you have in this Government is that commitment to work across portfolios to ensure that every single pound gives the people of Wales the greatest possible benefit. It's not about safeguarding our own budgets so that one thing can be delivered, but looking at, 'How can this pound be used in order to do a variety of things?' That's the work that's proceeding.  We are also looking strategically and on a long-term basis. We're not just looking at those things that generate easy headlines, but how we're going to improve things fundamentally. And that's why, with additional learning needs, we have a three-year commitment that this Senedd could vote for today. That's why we're going at it, with the NHS, not just to throw money at it but to come up with long-term, transformative plans that are going to make a genuine difference. The problem in the past, as we've seen, was that a little money was given but there was no getting to the root of the problem. That's the difference with this Government, and we're being totally transparent with everyone about that.  16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767731 272 Cy 2026-07-14T15:40:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=7802&l=en 260714-4 3. Business Statement and Announcement C 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767739 273 En 2026-07-14T15:41:37 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=7899&l=en 260714-4 3. Business Statement and Announcement C 8579 8579 Peredur Owen Griffiths https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=8579 Griffiths, Peredur Owen Trefnydd, I want to raise a concerning matter that was brought to my attention by residents in Redwick, in my constituency. They have endured low water pressure for years, but during the drier summer months, the situation is exacerbated considerably, for example, not being able to use washing machines or have showers. Then there's the impact on dairy and beef farmers in the area. In low-pressure conditions, water butts for cattle cannot be filled to keep pace with how much the cows are drinking in this heatwave. This is therefore becoming an animal welfare issue, with one farmer telling me that their back-up supplies of water are depleted and they are, I quote, surviving from day to day.  The response to the issue from Welsh Water has fallen far short of residents' expectations, and they are becoming increasingly frustrated that the seriousness of the situation is not being grasped, and there is no talk of a long-term solution. Can I therefore ask for a statement on water provision and the Government's response to the extended drought period we are facing, as it increases pressure on water supplies? 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767743 274 En 2026-07-14T15:42:48 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=7970&l=en 260714-4 3. Business Statement and Announcement C 426 426 Heledd Fychan https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=426 Fychan, Heledd Well, thank you to the Member for raising that extremely important issue, and given that the hot weather is expected to be extended as well, I would ask the Member to urgently write to Dŵr Cymru, with the fact that you've raised it on the floor of the Chamber today. As we know, extreme weather can pose a major threat to animal welfare. Similar to my response to the previous Member around greyhound racing, we know that farmers must remain alert to weather conditions and forecast and take appropriate action to mitigate the risk. But if that is impossible because of issues with the water supply, then obviously that needs to be raised with Dŵr Cymru, and I would encourage the Member to do that as quickly as possible.  16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767746 275 Cy 2026-07-14T15:43:31 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=8013&l=en 260714-4 3. Business Statement and Announcement C 4983 4983 Jane Dodds https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=4983 Dodds, Jane Good afternoon, Trefnydd. I want to continue with the issue of swimming pools, if I may—a swimming pool in Pontardawe. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767748 276 En 2026-07-14T15:43:42 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=8024&l=en 260714-4 3. Business Statement and Announcement C 4983 4983 Jane Dodds https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=4983 Dodds, Jane For almost two years, my constituents in Pontardawe have been without their local swimming pool. Families, schools, swimming clubs and older people are now having to travel to either Neath or Ystradgynlais. And, as we've heard, it's really important for children as well to learn to swim. That's really, really important. Neath Port Talbot Council has done its part in completing a feasibility survey and identifying a preferred option for replacement, but there's still an £11 million shortfall. So, I was just wondering what could the Welsh Government do in order to help Neath Port Talbot Council to get that money in order to ensure that there is a swimming pool in Pontardawe. Diolch yn fawr iawn. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767753 277 Cy 2026-07-14T15:44:25 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=8067&l=en 260714-4 3. Business Statement and Announcement C 426 426 Heledd Fychan https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=426 Fychan, Heledd I thank the Member for raising that issue. As you heard, I think, in my response to a Member earlier, that's exactly why we are now seeking to understand what has been lost and what investment is required, so that we can either reopen swimming pools or ensure that swimming pools that are at risk of closure can be kept open. We have to have a national plan. Unfortunately, there has been significant underinvestment in swimming pools. This is a huge problem here in Wales. It's something that we are looking at as part of our new swimming programme. Because it's one thing to give swimming lessons, but if you don't have the swimming pools available, then provision will be difficult. So, the commitment that we have is to look across Wales, including Pontardawe, to see what the need is. Then Sport Wales will assess the investment required. But the one thing I would say to Members is that the amount of capital money being put into swimming pools at the moment is not going to be able to meet the requirements across Wales. So, we do have to look at diverse models and how we can ensure that swimming pools can remain open in our communities for the benefit of people of all ages, as the Member said at the beginning of her question. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767713 278 Cy 2026-07-14T15:45:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=8102&l=en 260714-4 3. Business Statement and Announcement C 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767764 279 Cy 2026-07-14T00:00:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=-48598&l=en 260714-4 3. Business Statement and Announcement C 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767714 280 Cy 2026-07-14T15:45:53 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=8155&l=en 260714-4 3. Business Statement and Announcement C 12177 12177 Kerry Ferguson https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12177 Deputy Presiding Officer Ferguson, Kerry And finally, Gareth Beer. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767715 281 En 2026-07-14T15:45:56 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=8158&l=en 260714-4 3. Business Statement and Announcement C 8650 8650 Gareth Beer https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=8650 Beer, Gareth Diolch, Deputy Presiding Officer. Trefnydd, I would like to call for a Welsh Government statement on what support can be provided to constituents and local communities who wish to challenge the actions of well-funded infrastructure developers. As you will know, High Court proceedings are simply beyond the means of most families. Many of the constituents that I represent in Carmarthenshire have been subjected to survey notices that the High Court found were not issued in accordance with the statutory scheme. Concerned landowners and occupiers have faced significant stress and expenses because of the actions that they have been subjected to. They would welcome reassurances from this Welsh Government on what support can be provided to them. Therefore, I call for a Welsh Government statement on this matter. Diolch. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767793 282 Cy 260714-4 3. Business Statement and Announcement I The Llywydd (Huw Irranca-Davies) took the Chair. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767717 283 Cy 2026-07-14T15:46:48 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=8210&l=en 260714-4 3. Business Statement and Announcement C 426 426 Heledd Fychan https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=426 Fychan, Heledd I thank the Member for raising this important issue. Clearly, in terms of empowering communities, that's something that this Government has committed to. We certainly believe that we need to look again at processes in terms of planning and community engagement in order to ensure that the voice of local residents and local people is heard. It was one of the reasons why a number of us campaigned when we were in the opposition parties in terms of a number of the measures that are in our manifesto and our programme for government. The voice of communities is important and it's very difficult when they don't have the kind of resources that they need to proceed with the kinds of studies that you mentioned when companies, sometimes international ones, have so much money that can support them to challenge things against the community. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767721 284 Cy 2026-07-14T15:47:42 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=8264&l=en 260714-4 3. Business Statement and Announcement C 5053 5053 Huw Irranca-Davies https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=5053 Llywydd Irranca-Davies, Huw Thank you, Trefnydd. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767724 285 Cy 2026-07-14T15:47:43 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=8265&l=en 260714-5 4. Statement by the First Minister: Legislation C 5053 5053 Huw Irranca-Davies https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=5053 Llywydd Irranca-Davies, Huw We'll move now to item 4, statement by the First Minister. I call on the First Minister, Rhun ap Iorwerth. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767725 286 Cy 2026-07-14T15:47:52 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=8274&l=en 260714-5 4. Statement by the First Minister: Legislation C 2717 2717 Rhun ap Iorwerth https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=2717 First Minister of Wales ap Iorwerth, Rhun Thank you, Llywydd. When I addressed this Chamber back in May, I spoke of my intention to lead a new Government that does things differently, and that is true of legislation as well. Today I want to set out a series of proposals for new laws across a range of areas, with the aim of stimulating discussion with other parties in the Senedd. We are not here to create legislation for its own sake. The process should not be seen as something abstract and dull, but as an evolution that, when done properly, transforms values into policy, policy into legislation, and legislation into law that is clear, fair and workable in practice. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767726 287 En 2026-07-14T15:48:37 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=8319&l=en 260714-5 4. Statement by the First Minister: Legislation C 2717 2717 Rhun ap Iorwerth https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=2717 First Minister of Wales ap Iorwerth, Rhun Today I'll talk about our first phase of legislation. This recognises the dual importance of bringing early momentum to this legislature's work whilst allowing space to build agreement and develop genuinely impactful legislation across a full four-year term. There are several areas where action can be taken swiftly. Firstly, we want to protect and enhance Wales's unique sense of community. Our nation is a rich tapestry of urban and rural, north and south, young and old, but the legacy of a decade and more of austerity has chipped away at our sense of place. We will therefore proceed with the development of a community right-to-buy scheme and provide the legislative basis to enable eligible community groups to nominate and register valuable community assets to be given the right of first refusal when the owners decide to sell. We want more, not fewer, places that allow people to meet, learn, organise and make decisions together, and we want these to remain in the hands of our communities. Secondly, the value my Government places on fairness has motivated us to take action to strengthen the rights of tenants in the private rented sector. We will initially bring forward legislation focusing on strengthening our enforcement framework and the regulatory role of Rent Smart Wales, as well as requiring the sharing of rent data. This will lay the groundwork for more substantial changes that will improve housing affordability, make rents fairer, and limit no-fault evictions, to be brought forward later in this Senedd term. We're also developing proposals to legislate for the right to adequate housing, because nobody should be forced to suffer the anxiety and unacceptable stigma that so often comes with having nowhere to call home. Thirdly, to leave a greener legacy for generations to come, we will bring forward environmental proposals that support the developing climate and nature action plan. We will make existing legislation clearer, more workable and better able to support delivery on climate change, nature recovery, woodland protection, waste management improvements, environmental enforcement and the sustainable use of natural resources. We also intend to develop a statutory duty on rural-proofing, to ensure rural needs are considered consistently when policies are developed and delivered. I made a promise to lead a Government for the whole of Wales and this long-overdue change honours that. Consultation will begin imminently on these environmental and rural resilience proposals. As a package, they will strengthen legal and policy tools, support fair and effective regulation, and help deliver cleaner places, healthier ecosystems and stronger rural communities. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767738 288 En 2026-07-14T15:50:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=8402&l=en 260714-5 4. Statement by the First Minister: Legislation C 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767742 289 Cy 2026-07-14T15:51:38 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=8500&l=en 260714-5 4. Statement by the First Minister: Legislation C 2717 2717 Rhun ap Iorwerth https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=2717 First Minister of Wales ap Iorwerth, Rhun Control over water runs far deeper in Wales's collective memory than being seen merely as a matter of policy or regulation. Therefore, acting on a long-held principle at the heart of this Government that Welsh resources should be in Welsh hands, we're already laying the foundations for a new way of doing things—a Welsh approach that will give us more control over our water in a way that works for our communities, our customers and the environment. Legislation will be introduced in this Senedd term, but implementation work that is already under way will continue. We're already working with the UK Government to secure the powers that we need to build a Welsh system, including a new economic regulator that reflects our values and our priorities. It is not only economic justice that matters to this Government, but justice in its fundamental sense as the thread that binds society together. Our tribunals provide a commendable service to the people of Wales, but the underpinning legislative frameworks are outdated. Currently, all of our tribunals operate in different ways, with, for example, different processes for appointing members, developing procedural rules and managing appeals. We will therefore introduce a Welsh tribunals Bill early in this Senedd term to create a new tribunal system for Wales that is modern, consistent and independent. The system will not only be able to meet the current requirements of the different jurisdictions, but will be flexible enough to offer a forum that could be used for dispute resolution in other devolved policy areas. Looking ahead, in line with this Government's commitment, the system will have the capacity to deal with the demands of any further devolution of justice. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767749 290 En 2026-07-14T15:53:35 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=8617&l=en 260714-5 4. Statement by the First Minister: Legislation C 2717 2717 Rhun ap Iorwerth https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=2717 First Minister of Wales ap Iorwerth, Rhun Finally, on the first phase of the legislative programme, I turn to the economy. Whilst far too many major economic levers still reside in Westminster, we will not stop making the case for their transfer. But, as an immediate step, a tax maintenance Bill will continue Wales's tax devolution journey. These proposals will help the Welsh Revenue Authority continue to administer the land transaction tax and landfill disposals tax effectively by making operational and technical changes to clarify, enhance and futureproof the Welsh tax Acts and to support information sharing between the WRA and local authorities. My Government will never place limitations on our level of ambition for Wales. The new national development agency will spearhead our mission to halve Wales's productivity gap with the rest of the UK in the next decade. With the Minister for enterprise already having announced an expert advisory panel, there is considerable momentum behind this goal. We won't take a final decision on the form of that agency until we've been able to consider the panel's advice, but we will be ready to bring forward legislation should that be required. This practical approach will underpin our activity in a number of areas, including child poverty and the Welsh language. We will review the evidence, we will consider the options available, and we will bring forward legislation where that is what is needed to deliver the outcomes on the ground that we want to see. Before concluding, Llywydd, I'll say a brief word about other legislation. It's the combination of primary and secondary legislation that makes up the backbone of the developing Welsh statute book. The Government's vision is not only to bring forward individual instruments that improve the lives of the people of Wales, but at the same time to create a body of Welsh law that is clear, coherent and accessible to those who rely on it. Central to this vision is our continuing programme of consolidation and codification of Welsh legislation. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767745 291 En 2026-07-14T15:55:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=8702&l=en 260714-5 4. Statement by the First Minister: Legislation C 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767750 292 Cy 2026-07-14T15:55:46 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=8748&l=en 260714-5 4. Statement by the First Minister: Legislation C 2717 2717 Rhun ap Iorwerth https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=2717 First Minister of Wales ap Iorwerth, Rhun To conclude, safeguarding Welsh democracy is a core principle of this Government, and in support of that, the Counsel General has today issued a written statement outlining the approach that we will take when considering UK legislation that affects devolved matters. Currently, the Sewel convention fails the test of offering adequate safeguards for devolution. That's why we are calling on the Westminster Government and the other devolved Governments to place Sewel on a firmer statutory footing and why we will always resist any attempt to disrespect or ignore the boundaries of the current settlement. This is a far-reaching and ambitious programme that reflects our core values as a Government, and will, I hope, encourage greater collaboration and exchange of ideas across this Chamber. We are determined to develop legislation through consensus building and co-operation for the benefit of all communities in Wales. Thank you. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767757 293 En 2026-07-14T15:57:01 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=8823&l=en 260714-5 4. Statement by the First Minister: Legislation C 12147 12147 Dan Thomas https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12147 Thomas, Dan Whilst I'm grateful to the Government for the advance notice of these legislative priorities issued via the media this morning, surely Government announcements, especially when they relate to Bills to be introduced in this place, should be first made in this place, out of respect for all Members of this Parliament. I would encourage the Government to reflect on that and treat this place with the respect that it deserves. The statement refers to this programme as a far-reaching and ambitious programme that reflects the values of the Government. That may be so if the bar is set low. It doesn't squarely reflect the priorities of the people of Wales. On the cost of living, making rents fairer is a noble aim, but the root cause of unaffordable rents is the housing shortage. The Government should be tackling the root cause of this by overhauling the planning system, giving house builders more certainty and skilling up our young people for a lifetime of work in construction. We should also be giving councils more powers to say 'no' to houses in multiple occupation. The new development agency is an admission that this Government does not possess the expertise to directly deal with business and industry. For a moment there during the First Minister's speech, I thought that the Minister for enterprise was coming to sit next to me to tell me so. He got a little lost in the Chamber, and I think that's an omen for how lost the Government is on its policy with the economy. But businesses want to deal with decision makers, not agencies acting as a sales force. They want decisions on planning, on land assembly, on grant funding and business rate incentives. No quango can offer that. Plaid have finally got power and they're handing it over to yet another quango. Far from creating more quangos, we should be consolidating them and bringing their functions in-house and saving on the extortionate management costs. On rural-proofing, as was the case with the sustainable farming scheme, the devil will be in the detail. It sounds like another environmental sustainability scheme, but what rural communities need is the Government off their backs when it comes to food production, and acting fairly when it comes to transport, health and education. Food security and increasing food exports is a large part of rural-proofing. Where is the legislation to safeguard those sectors? On tribunals, not one voter in Wales told me they wanted tribunal reform, but I do understand the importance of the tribunal system. But the language used to justify it is all about making the case for further devolution of justice and taking us on Plaid's journey to independence. On water reform, my group tabled a motion to clean up our waters, our seas, our rivers, which Plaid shamefully voted against. Today's announcement is a welcome u-turn, and I'm pleased that Plaid are now following Reform's lead on this topic. And there could be room for consensus on this—hopefully so; you talked about consensus, First Minister.  Tackling child poverty—sadly, three decades of devolution has done little to eradicate poverty in Wales, and giving free childcare to all families, even those where the parents are millionaires, isn't going to make the impact the Government expects. I understand the aim is for parents to be able to go out and work, but where are the jobs? Where is the plan for an economic boom in Wales? This Government appears to have chosen topics where it thinks there is consensus, and I understand why a minority Government would do that. But another approach would be to unite this Chamber with a more ambitious vision for Wales—a vision that sees Wales lead in certain sectors, such as nuclear energy and logistics, a vision that sees farmers produce even more of our high-quality food to export, to enable a radical step change in house building, and to significantly tighten up the performance management of the health boards, the health chiefs and the education sector. Wales has so much potential, but this programme does little to unleash it. We've seen these kinds of Bills and measures before. They have made little difference to the daily lives of the people of Wales. People voted for change, but they've ended up with continuity. Where Reform can see merit in legislation, we will support, we will offer our own ideas, but this is a missed opportunity to take Wales's story to another level, and I can't help but feel that the people of Wales will be underwhelmed when they see this programme as a whole. Now, I know much can be achieved without laws and with the normal levers of Government, but we have waited 30 years for this moment. There are just under four years left of this term, and Reform will do all it can to increase the level of ambition in this Parliament. Diolch. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767740 294 En 2026-07-14T16:00:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=9002&l=en 260714-5 4. Statement by the First Minister: Legislation C 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767751 295 Cy 2026-07-14T16:02:17 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=9139&l=en 260714-5 4. Statement by the First Minister: Legislation C 2717 2717 Rhun ap Iorwerth https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=2717 First Minister of Wales ap Iorwerth, Rhun Thank you very much, Llywydd, for the opportunity to respond.  16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767754 296 En 2026-07-14T16:02:20 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=9142&l=en 260714-5 4. Statement by the First Minister: Legislation C 2717 2717 Rhun ap Iorwerth https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=2717 First Minister of Wales ap Iorwerth, Rhun I'll respond on a few of those points. I am still waiting for any sign of ambition from Reform for Wales, but I'll address a couple of issues. On rural-proofing, I think the Member confuses what this is. Yes, there's an element of that legislation that is about empowering us as a Senedd and as a Government to take our environmental responsibilities more seriously, and to act in clearer ways. The rural-proofing element is about recognising the specific challenges that we have in rural Wales, and this Government is taking the necessary action to show that we are here to govern for all of Wales. And I'm very, very surprised to hear Reform, that champion themselves as supporters of rural Wales, objecting, essentially, to a measure that is about promoting the interests of rural Wales. Maybe he'd like to reflect on that.  On the development agency, the Member on one hand asks, 'Where's the plan for growing the Welsh economy?', and on the other hand he objects to the idea of having this development agency, which is all about growing the Welsh economy and creating a new impetus. I'm afraid he is totally out of step with business in Wales, that, from my experience, if not all of them, then pretty much all of them agree with us that this is a positive step. If we look at the positive impact of development agencies within these islands—in Scotland and in Ireland, for example—this is something that we could benefit from. I agree with him that there is a recognition here that Government doesn't have all the answers, but the point made is that Governments can't have all the answers. We are bringing in business to lead this with us because it is the ingenuity and the agility of business that will allow us to move forward. On tribunals, I'm not sure why he decided to focus on that, but I think the Member's objection to making tribunals work better for Wales betrays Reform's opposition to empowering Wales in any way, not least, heaven forbid, to make devolution work better. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767759 297 En 2026-07-14T16:04:38 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=9280&l=en 260714-5 4. Statement by the First Minister: Legislation C 5053 5053 Huw Irranca-Davies https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=5053 Llywydd Irranca-Davies, Huw Diolch, Brif Weinidog. Before I turn to the leader of Welsh Labour, can I just pick up on the point that was just made? This is a gentle reminder but a clear reminder that normally, out of respect for this Chamber, significant announcements would be made in the Chamber and then face scrutiny within the Chamber. So, I just ask the Government and the First Minister to reflect on that, rather than it being announced outside of this Chamber and then coming here. Ken Skates.  16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767752 298 En 2026-07-14T16:05:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=9302&l=en 260714-5 4. Statement by the First Minister: Legislation C 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767765 299 En 2026-07-14T16:09:59 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=9601&l=en 260714-5 4. Statement by the First Minister: Legislation C 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767755 300 En 2026-07-14T16:05:10 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=9312&l=en 260714-5 4. Statement by the First Minister: Legislation C 267 267 Ken Skates https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=267 Skates, Ken Diolch, Lywydd, especially for that kind and polite reminder of bringing announcements like this first to the Senedd. First Minister, there are many aspects to welcome, I believe, in this statement, but I would appreciate clarity on a number of points. It was of course one of the Government's key commitments to put rural-proofing on a statutory footing, and I look forward to scrutinising that legislation. I'll be particularly interested to understand what outcomes it'll drive for rural communities, because the test, of course, is not the drafting and the passage of the Bill, but what changes for rural communities. Likewise, on the fair rent Bill, I'm proud of how the last Welsh Labour Government strengthened protections for tenants, and my colleagues and I look forward to scrutinising the Government's proposals in this area. I'd particularly like to welcome the Government's announcement of a new law creating a community right to buy. This is a long-standing priority for many communities across Wales, and is particularly championed by the Co-operative Party. It empowers local people to bring valuable community spaces back into community ownership, and I know that work on this started under the last Welsh Labour Government. Of course, in England there is already a community right to buy, introduced by the UK Labour Government, and I'm a huge advocate of giving communities more power in decision making over their own areas. It's exactly what the community right to buy helps to achieve—places like The Raven Inn in Llanarmon-yn-Iâl; I believe it's frequented by Darren Millar many times. That shows just how powerful a community right-to-buy scheme can be in empowering and uniting a community. I think it's an important tool in helping community groups to buy places like pubs, but also like schools, shops, open spaces and other places in towns and villages, and indeed in our cities. It protects places that make our communities special, that matter to people, and gives people more of a say in designing their own high streets. Now, the UK Labour Government's backed this up with a fund to help communities to buy assets. So, what additional practical support will this Government put in place to ensure that communities can actually make use of the new law? I'd particularly suggest that the community facilities programme could be a useful vehicle for providing financial support and indeed advice to communities that need it. The First Minister won't be surprised to hear me raise legislation for a school staff negotiating body in the Siambr. I'm disappointed to see that it's not included in the statement today. We committed, when we were in Government, to a school support staff negotiating body, and much of the preparatory work is done. It's ready to go, in fact. And, of course, when the Senedd recently voted on this matter, there was cross-party support for it. We were always clear, though, in Government that a new negotiating body would have addressing year-round pay as its first priority, because across Wales, 27,000 school support staff—the teaching assistants, the kitchen staff, caretakers and many others that schools rely on—are only being paid during term time. And, of course, we're mere days away from the school summer holidays, a time at which, at least symbolically, these vital staff members are without pay. And it is about fair pay, it's about job security, it's about social justice, it's about stability for children, and it's also about equality, because 90 per cent of school support staff are women. For thousands of families across Wales, year-round pay would be a huge step forward, and I would urge the Government to commit to taking this forward as soon as possible. Now, another Bill I'd hoped to see in today's statement was a taxi and private hire vehicles Bill, which, as many Members will know, was developed as a White Paper under the Welsh Labour Government. Such a Bill would legislate to regulate the taxi and private hire vehicle sector, including addressing the problem of cross-bordering, which is particularly prevalent in Cardiff and Newport. Now, since the White Paper, the need for this legislation has only increased. There's no doubt about it. We now live in an age of rapidly evolving technology, particularly with regard to automation, that will fundamentally change how people across Wales work, how they travel and therefore how they use taxis and private hire vehicles. This legislation, I believe, will only become more relevant and necessary as the pace of change continues to increase, and I'd urge the Government to give this matter close consideration. Diolch. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767747 301 En 2026-07-14T16:10:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=9602&l=en 260714-5 4. Statement by the First Minister: Legislation C 2717 2717 Rhun ap Iorwerth https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=2717 First Minister of Wales ap Iorwerth, Rhun Thank you very much for those comments. On the timing of this statement, I would make it clear, Llywydd, that we are following in both spirit and in practice the precise protocols that have always been followed and were followed by the previous Government, and this is the statement that I'm making in the Senedd Chamber this afternoon. I welcome the Member taking an opportunity to speak about a number of the legislative opportunities that he would like to pursue. Commenting on the ones in our programme that he referred to, I welcome his support for the principle of introducing the rural-proofing legislation. There's a lot of work to be done around even defining what 'rural' means, because currently, in statutory terms, we don't have that. So, it's a matter of ensuring that we have the frameworks within which, then, we can say that, in everything Government does, it has to take into account the impact of decisions on rural Wales. It's very, very important. Also on protecting renters, I welcome that support. This is building, indeed, on current legislation, and bridging to future legislation. There is further legislation that this Government would wish to introduce to protect renters further, but I think it's important that we keep an eye on how we can build consensus on the need to protect renters in this key sector. On the statutory school support staff legislation, you're right, this has been a topic of conversation, debate and vote in this Senedd recently, and as was implied in the way the vote went, I can see that benefits of a statutory body that would give support staff similar arrangements to those set up in England, giving them a similar status to our teachers, who already have an independent pay review body. So, I'm very keen, as was said during that particular debate, to investigate how that could be taken forward. I would say, though, as I referred to in the statement itself, we legislate where we need to legislate, and we always look if there are other ways in which we can get the results we want. So, this Government is determined to make an immediate difference to people's lives, and I'm keen to explore what we can do without legislation too, and I would invite those who would work with us on those aspects of that particular potential legislation. On community right to buy, again, I welcome the support in principle, and, yes, Wales has slipped behind here. I appreciate that work has been done in previous Governments, but those Governments didn't get it over the line. So, we have an opportunity now to do that. We believe in our communities, we believe in empowering communities, and if we're able to work on this, because working together can bring results, we will drive this forward in the interest of communities the length and breadth of Wales. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767758 302 En 2026-07-14T16:13:13 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=9795&l=en 260714-5 4. Statement by the First Minister: Legislation C 171 171 Darren Millar https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=171 Millar, Darren First Minister, you've had months to prepare for your legislative statement today, for this moment, in this Chamber, and I have to say, is this it? Is this all you've got to offer the people of Wales? You tried to present yourself as a Government in waiting before the previous election, yet it's quite clear that you don't have a very well-developed plan as to what you actually want to do and deliver for the people in Wales. Tribunal reform, tinkering about with the Welsh tax system—hardly the stuff that people on the doorsteps during the recent Senedd elections were concerned about. You had absolutely nothing to say about the Welsh NHS, which we know is on its knees, nothing to say about the Welsh education system, which is delivering the worst educational outcomes in the UK, very little to say on the Welsh economy, which is lagging behind other parts of the United Kingdom. And your statement, of course, was made in the sort of casual and presumptive way that we've become familiar with. It seems to make an assumption that your legislative programme will get the support across the Chamber that you want it to get. But if I can just remind you, you're a minority Government, right? You can't make assumptions without engagement with other political parties prior to making your statements. Not engaging with the media prior to making your statements, but engaging with other political parties and trying to seek a little bit of consensus. Now, we've made it clear, right from the outset of your term of office, that we're prepared to work with you, we're prepared to work with any political party in this Chamber, to support legislation that is in the interests of the people of Wales. But you've made no attempt whatsoever to reach out to my party, and, to my understanding, either Reform or the Labour Party, about this legislative programme that you've set out today. So, let me set out some alternative proposals on the things that are a matter of concern to the people of Wales. The NHS is in crisis. Some of that crisis is down to failing leadership. So, we need an NHS accountability and governance Bill to ensure that senior leaders in our health service are competent and can be held to account when things go wrong. We need to deliver that mobile phone ban in schools that you're, sluggishly, going to consult on, without giving a clear commitment as to how you're going to introduce it. We need a new additional learning needs and autism Bill to help young people to reach their full potential. And we need to protect those female-only spaces in schools, leisure centres and other buildings to keep women and girls safe and to make sure that that Supreme Court ruling on sex is fully implemented. We do need a national development agency, and this is one of the things that I hope we can work together on. But it needs to be a reformed development agency that will deliver true benefits for the people of Wales. And it's not just a national development agency. We also need to reform business rates here in our country so that we can revive our high streets, and help shops, pubs, cafes and post offices to be able to thrive and to prevent the further closure of buildings in our town centres. And while we do support the community right-to-buy plan, which we've been calling for for years, by the way, in this Chamber, because we do want to protect those community assets that are at risk of closure, what about legislating for another right to buy—housing? Why don't we restore the right to buy to help people get onto the housing ladder—a reformed right to buy that puts the proceeds back into developing more affordable housing? Why don't we legislate to bring empty homes back into use so that we're not having these terrible empty properties plaguing our towns and communities? Why don't we take some action on council tax to help people keep their council tax costs down, with referendums for excessive rises? Now, I heard what you had to say about this rural-proofing legislation that you want to bring forward, something that we welcome. But, in your 100-day plan, you specifically refer to funding in relation to that. You didn't mention funding at all today. And, of course, we all know that we actually need wider reform. It's not just rural areas. There are certain geographic parts of Wales that are missing out on fair funding. North Wales, mid Wales, west Wales—they've not been receiving a fair share of investment under successive Welsh Governments as a result of your budget deals with the Labour Party, and we need to change the law to make sure that they do. So, I am surprised at the lack of cross-party engagement in advance of your statement today. I don't think your statement is sufficiently ambitious, and, if you want some ideas, I'll send you a copy of our manifesto so that you can implement that instead. Thank you. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767756 303 En 2026-07-14T16:15:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=9902&l=en 260714-5 4. Statement by the First Minister: Legislation C 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767772 304 En 2026-07-14T16:18:15 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=10097&l=en 260714-5 4. Statement by the First Minister: Legislation C 2717 2717 Rhun ap Iorwerth https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=2717 First Minister of Wales ap Iorwerth, Rhun I did see a copy of the manifesto and decided it wasn't for me, as did most of Wales, to be fair. [Laughter.] 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767776 305 En 2026-07-14T16:18:20 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=10102&l=en 260714-5 4. Statement by the First Minister: Legislation C 171 171 Darren Millar https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=171 Millar, Darren Most of Wales voted against yours too. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767779 306 En 2026-07-14T16:18:26 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=10108&l=en 260714-5 4. Statement by the First Minister: Legislation C 2717 2717 Rhun ap Iorwerth https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=2717 First Minister of Wales ap Iorwerth, Rhun I recognise the platform that the Member has to lay out a number of political viewpoints, on much of which legislation is not needed. I could refer to legislation that he did propose that I just disagree on—to bring back the damage caused by Margaret Thatcher on right to buy, the damage that we are still trying to undo in terms of delivering more social housing now. So, we just disagree, okay; we're just going to have to agree to disagree on that point. On the mobile phone ban, we're taking action. Statutory guidance means we can move quicker without waiting for legislation. Though this Government has said we will legislate if we need to, we reckon we can work quicker than that. On tax maintenance, he somehow rubbishes the idea of tax maintenance. This is an important part of a well-functioning tax system, and, for a party that pride themselves on prudence, I'm surprised at the Member for taking such a cavalier attitude to making sure that we have good and effective taxation systems. On business rates, again, we don't need to wait to act. Why doesn't the Government legislate to bring back disused properties into use? Because we don't need to legislate on that, necessarily. There's action that is being taken right now on that. On fair funding, and making sure that we have a formula, not legislation, that ensures that money is shared out in an equitable way, well, those meetings are already meetings that my Minister for local government is having. Finally, there's a theme from the Member, and I will allow him to follow whichever theme he wants, but the idea that this is a Government that hasn't, in everything that we've done, made clear our determination to be consensual, from the very first comments that I made here in this Siambr—. I will read out again, Llywydd, my concluding statement in this statement this afternoon. I said that this is a programme that reflects the core values of this Government, and one that I hope will lead to co-operation and the sharing of ideas further among everybody within this Chamber. We are determined to develop legislation on the grounds of building consensus and through co-operation in the interests of all communities in Wales. I'm sorry that he'd switched off at that point. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767736 307 En 2026-07-14T16:20:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=10202&l=en 260714-5 4. Statement by the First Minister: Legislation C 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767761 308 En 2026-07-14T16:21:03 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=10265&l=en 260714-5 4. Statement by the First Minister: Legislation C 5053 5053 Huw Irranca-Davies https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=5053 Llywydd Irranca-Davies, Huw Now, we're going to move to one-minute contributions. I'm going to see if we can call everybody, but let's see how we get on. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767762 309 Cy 2026-07-14T16:21:08 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=10270&l=en 260714-5 4. Statement by the First Minister: Legislation C 5053 5053 Huw Irranca-Davies https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=5053 Llywydd Irranca-Davies, Huw First, Peredur Owen Griffiths. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767763 310 Cy 2026-07-14T16:21:11 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=10273&l=en 260714-5 4. Statement by the First Minister: Legislation C 8579 8579 Peredur Owen Griffiths https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=8579 Griffiths, Peredur Owen Thank you, Llywydd, and thank you for this progressive statement, First Minister. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767766 311 En 2026-07-14T16:21:15 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=10277&l=en 260714-5 4. Statement by the First Minister: Legislation C 8579 8579 Peredur Owen Griffiths https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=8579 Griffiths, Peredur Owen As the former Chair of the Finance Committee, I reflect on what we were told by former finance Ministers about the fiscal position of the previous Government. I've also been following what the new finance Minister has had to say in her analysis of her inherited tight fiscal position, once the actual line-by-line detail has been seen. It also appears that things have got even tighter in recent months as a result of events out of this Government's control. Nevertheless, it's good to see that Plaid Cymru's manifesto commitments are being delivered in this legislative programme this afternoon. I firmly believe that these commitments are for the benefit of the people and communities that we all represent—for example, the community right to buy. Not only that, these commitments are in line with the pledges of some of the opposition parties in this Siambr, as we've heard this afternoon. I've even agreed with one or two things that Darren Millar has said this afternoon, which is quite something. I hope, therefore, that we're able to put aside some of the political posturing and point scoring in order to find the common ground. So, First Minister, will you agree with me that we should focus on the common ground and those outcomes that benefit people the length and breadth of Wales? Diolch. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767769 312 En 2026-07-14T16:22:30 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=10352&l=en 260714-5 4. Statement by the First Minister: Legislation C 2717 2717 Rhun ap Iorwerth https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=2717 First Minister of Wales ap Iorwerth, Rhun I certainly do agree with the Member, and I take heart—. I get the politics, but I take heart from the fact that, across this Chamber, on rural-proofing, for example, there is an agreement, it seems, that this is a good thing to do. The way legislation works, of course, is that we have an outcome that we seek to achieve, legislation is published, it is consulted on and it is us here, it is you as legislators, who are able to shape that legislation with amendments, through committee scrutiny, and so on. The clearer the determination to co-operate in order to strengthen draft legislation on which we have a common agreement that it's a good thing, well, the more likely it is that that will turn into good legislation. And I start from that starting point: we can find that there is common ground; let's see how we turn that into good law. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767778 313 En 2026-07-14T16:23:35 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=10417&l=en 260714-5 4. Statement by the First Minister: Legislation C 12167 12167 Sarah Cooper-Lesadd https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12167 Cooper-Lesadd, Sarah Having worked in government, I know that arm's-length bodies most often fail on one thing, blurred accountability, where, when a target is missed, the Minister points to the agency and the agency points to the Minister. The First Minister has set out a decade-long target to halve the productivity gap, which is something we should all welcome. So, who, precisely, will be accountable to this Senedd if that target is missed—the responsible Minister or the agency's leadership? And will that accountability be written into the agency's remit in the terms of reference from the outset? 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767781 314 En 2026-07-14T16:24:10 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=10452&l=en 260714-5 4. Statement by the First Minister: Legislation C 2717 2717 Rhun ap Iorwerth https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=2717 First Minister of Wales ap Iorwerth, Rhun I'm really glad to have that question; it's a chance for me to share my views on this as a matter of principle and to lay out the practical. It was a belief of the former First Minister Rhodri Morgan that there needed to be a bonfire of the quangos because of the lack of democratic accountability. That was before our Senedd, or Assembly as it was then, was set up. Once we had our Assembly, we had that accountability. So, that's why I believe it was a mistake to bin the Welsh Development Agency at that time. I mean, it needed fixing, but I think it was a mistake to bin it. We have that accountability now. We have many arms-length bodies doing very, very good work. There's very good reason why we need things at arm's length from Government. The reason business has really strongly supported the idea of having a development agency is because it is able to be more fleet of foot than a Government ever can, because I see the limitations that Government has. I believe the accountability is there within our systems, within our committee structures. And it is up to the Government to say, 'We are setting these targets.' It is up to the Government to own those targets. The bodies, within their remits—. And you're right, the remit has to be right, the remit has to make it clear that the buck stops with Government; that's what we would expect always. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767760 315 En 2026-07-14T16:25:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=10502&l=en 260714-5 4. Statement by the First Minister: Legislation C 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767768 316 Cy 2026-07-14T16:25:43 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=10545&l=en 260714-5 4. Statement by the First Minister: Legislation C 12186 12186 Beca Brown https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12186 Brown, Beca It's great to see that this Government is tackling the housing crisis, supporting housing affordability and increasing the rights of renters. In 2025, in my constituency, over 65 per cent of the population were priced out of housing in Gwynedd, and the median price on the Llŷn peninsula is more than £400,000, which is unaffordable for 96 per cent of local people. The impact this has on the area is very severe. Young people are leaving their localities, moving to the city or across the border, which greatly harms the local economy and culture. It's good to see the Government doing this essential work, and I'm also really pleased to hear the news about the development of the right to adequate housing. This right is fundamental, and having a law on this would be transformative for thousands upon thousands of people across the country. So, what will the timetable be for bringing the aforementioned measures and the community right to buy to the Senedd? 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767782 317 Cy 2026-07-14T16:26:49 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=10611&l=en 260714-5 4. Statement by the First Minister: Legislation C 2717 2717 Rhun ap Iorwerth https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=2717 First Minister of Wales ap Iorwerth, Rhun Thank you very much for those comments and questions, and, yes, it's good to be able to stand here and make a statement that we are prioritising these areas. We've been talking about them for many years and now we can make progress. What we have here, essentially, is a programme just for the first 18 months, perhaps. So, the community right to buy is something that will happen within that period so that we can demonstrate that we are moving quickly. There are elements, as I've mentioned, in terms of the first part of legislation to protect the rights of renters, which again will happen in this first phase. But we then need to develop within the rest of the time of this Government the further legislation that can actually move on to protect the right to an adequate home and further protection for renters. So, there is a developing programme here. Bear in mind too, and I would again refer to the cross-Senedd co-operation that I hope to see, there'll be an opportunity for new legislation to be introduced into this programme. Parliamentary committees may propose legislation. Individuals on the backbenches will have opportunities from time to time. So, there is a dynamic programme here, but the important thing, and I'm pleased to hear support from the Member on this, is that we are starting to address these issues that we know mean so much to the people that we represent. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767788 318 En 2026-07-14T16:28:27 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=10709&l=en 260714-5 4. Statement by the First Minister: Legislation C 332 332 Mike Hedges https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=332 Hedges, Mike On legislation, I always think about how comprehensive education was initially brought in following a Department for Education and Science circular by Anthony Crosland—no legislation.  I'm a member of the Co-operative Party, who have long campaigned for a community right-to-buy scheme, and I support legislation to enable eligible community groups to nominate and register valuable community assets and be given the right to first refusal when the owner decides to sell. Far too many community buildings are left to deteriorate, and community action could stop some of these becoming derelict. Is any funding going to be made available to help these community purchases? I also want us to leave a greener legacy for generations to come, and I welcome the environmental proposal to support developing a climate and nature action plan. What I will ask, though, on animals, is: will the proposed legislation provide additional support for animals in Wales? And again I ask for legislation to stop the private ownership of primates. I note in the First Minister's statement that control over water runs far deeper in Wales's collective memory than it being seen merely as a matter of policy or regulation. Your economy Minister joined me in the last Senedd in supporting the public ownership of water. Will the Welsh Government consider nationalising Welsh Water? Finally, on the economy, will the Welsh Government consider funding university research in computing and life sciences and the spin-offs that come from it? 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767790 319 En 2026-07-14T16:29:47 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=10789&l=en 260714-5 4. Statement by the First Minister: Legislation C 2717 2717 Rhun ap Iorwerth https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=2717 First Minister of Wales ap Iorwerth, Rhun Diolch yn fawr iawn. Thank you for those questions. Again, some of those last elements on funding are not necessarily relevant to legislation. On water, yes, I do believe absolutely in the principle of public ownership of water. That's my starting point always. We have now quite an exciting process that we are following with positive engagement from the UK Government currently, on handing us the ability to control and regulate our water in future. Legislating on water isn't necessary to be part of this, if you like, first 18 months of legislative programme, because we are involved in those negotiations with the UK Government now on empowering ourselves in Wales. But, legislation, we will look at how we can use law to protect Welsh water in future because it is so, so important to us. And on community right to buy, I appreciate the support there for that principle. There's a lot of work to be done in defining what exactly, for example, should be included. Some of the work has begun already, but we will get down to that work in earnest. I should have answered the question earlier on the question of funding. There is already a range of grant and loan funding arrangements available that community groups can access. I'm always interested in seeing how those can be developed further, but I think the important thing here is laying down the legal framework within which we can identify who can be the responsible bodies locally; which community assets need to be protected; and how we put those protections in place. Let's get that work done first. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767767 320 En 2026-07-14T16:30:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=10802&l=en 260714-5 4. Statement by the First Minister: Legislation C 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767783 321 En 2026-07-14T16:31:41 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=10903&l=en 260714-5 4. Statement by the First Minister: Legislation C 12178 12178 Anna Nicholl https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12178 Nicholl, Anna I welcome so much in the First Minister's legislative statement this afternoon, but I'd like to add my voice, alongside others across the Chamber, to welcome the statutory duty on rural-proofing. For too long, our rural communities have felt let down and forgotten, feeling that policies have been designed by and for our urban population, with only lip service being paid to rural communities. But this statutory duty on rural-proofing, ensuring that rural needs are considered consistently in the development and delivery of policy, is an important step change and shows this Government truly appreciates our rural needs. How does the First Minister see these statutory duties working to address the different ways in which rural communities experience policy and access to services, from healthcare and transport to the urgent climate and nature crises? 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767784 322 En 2026-07-14T16:32:34 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=10956&l=en 260714-5 4. Statement by the First Minister: Legislation C 2717 2717 Rhun ap Iorwerth https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=2717 First Minister of Wales ap Iorwerth, Rhun To all intents and purposes, the exact form and scope of the statutory duty is not decided yet, and that's very common, of course, if we think of legislation that we're collectively proud of here on the well-being of future generations, as that started its journey in a very different form to the one it ended up in, but the principle stayed true throughout, so we're setting an important principle. We'll need to develop, as I said earlier, the policy to define 'rural', to actually define 'rural-proofing', that technical aspect of what it is legally that we're setting out to do; the exact form of the duty and what it requires someone to do, and the discretion it provides them to do it. We'll need to propose which public authorities it should apply to and why, and a couple have been mentioned already here today. Health has been mentioned; there are other aspects too that we need to consider. So, it's a tool. Rural-proofing is a tool that decision takers can apply when designing or delivering a policy—that's the idea—when designing or delivering a programme, a service. Welsh Government already uses a template and guidance for internal integrated impact assessments. Those templates are already in place. Other nations in the UK have comprehensive guidance and toolkits to support specifically rural-proofing. Well, we want to have that too, so we'll be developing proposals for supporting mechanisms as part of the Bill's development, so it can be, I trust, implemented effectively. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767785 323 Cy 2026-07-14T16:34:03 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=11045&l=en 260714-5 4. Statement by the First Minister: Legislation C 5053 5053 Huw Irranca-Davies https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=5053 Llywydd Irranca-Davies, Huw Finally, James Evans. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767786 324 En 2026-07-14T16:34:05 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=11047&l=en 260714-5 4. Statement by the First Minister: Legislation C 8585 8585 James Evans https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=8585 Evans, James Diolch, Lywydd. First Minister, your Government says it's going to legislate for rural-proofing, but England's experience shows how easily this can just become another meaningless tick-box exercise, only carried out after decisions have been taken. I welcome anything to strengthen rural communities, but the devil is in the detail, because the key question is not whether rural-proofing should be put into law, but actually what the law forces Ministers and other bodies to do. Will your law require rural impact assessments to be published before policies and budgets are agreed? Will it force Ministers to act on the findings and ensure that funding formulas reflect the higher costs of delivering services in rural Wales? Is this going to end up being a framework Bill with all the power transferred via regulations to Ministers? These are key questions, First Minister, that your Government should have a steer on, because otherwise, is this just not simply going to be another piece of paperwork that's going to be shuffled around Cathays Park, then given to a Cabinet meeting, and then ignored because the decision has already been taken? So, I'd like some assurance from you that you've actually done some detailed work around this before announcing it to the Chamber today. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767770 325 En 2026-07-14T16:35:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=11102&l=en 260714-5 4. Statement by the First Minister: Legislation C 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767771 326 En 2026-07-14T16:35:13 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=11115&l=en 260714-5 4. Statement by the First Minister: Legislation C 2717 2717 Rhun ap Iorwerth https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=2717 First Minister of Wales ap Iorwerth, Rhun Yes, absolutely. I mean, we've been talking about this across rural stakeholders for a long time, and in fact, the fact is that we can see it in action and working effectively; Northern Ireland, for example, have a system that works and is really interesting to us. I'll end on a positive note, as I always try to do, and say that I think that the Member is correct in stating that we can't afford this to be a meaningless tick-box exercise. Some of the criticisms levelled, sometimes, at legislation passed in previous Senedds have been maybe that they have lacked a focus on actually what they were trying to achieve; 'They've sounded good, but have they done what we need them to do?' That is why I said at the outset of my statement today that we shouldn't be legislating for legislating's sake. We should be legislating where we can see a need for it. We have done that work in recognising, 'You know what, we think that this needs to be done.' A lot of that work was done in the previous Senedd actually. Cefin Campbell, in his constituency role, published a report on rural-proofing, which was very, very useful in guiding us, as a prospective Government and now a Government, to a place where we have been convinced. But every single Member in this Senedd will have a contribution to make and to amend and to improve and strengthen. The Welsh word for amendment is 'gwelliant', literally meaning 'an improvement'. So, we will be bringing forward legislation that you will be able to improve and strengthen. We are legislators—that's our job. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767773 327 Cy 2026-07-14T16:36:58 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=11220&l=en 260714-5 4. Statement by the First Minister: Legislation C 5053 5053 Huw Irranca-Davies https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=5053 Llywydd Irranca-Davies, Huw Thank you, First Minister. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767775 328 Cy 2026-07-14T16:37:01 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=11223&l=en 260714-6 5. Statement by the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality: Update on Early Years Childcare and Play C 5053 5053 Huw Irranca-Davies https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=5053 Llywydd Irranca-Davies, Huw We'll now move on to item 5, statement by the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality: update on early years childcare and play. I call on the Deputy First Minister and Minister, Sioned Williams. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767777 329 Cy 2026-07-14T16:37:21 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=11243&l=en 260714-6 5. Statement by the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality: Update on Early Years Childcare and Play C 8670 8670 Sioned Williams https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=8670 Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality Williams, Sioned Thank you very much, Llywydd. I'm very pleased to provide this update today on the work to develop the initial phasing and costs of the Government's ambitious commitment to deliver a universal childcare offer. Members will be aware that the Government is introducing a phased expansion of funded universal childcare, which, at full roll-out, will be the most generous offer in the UK, providing 20 hours of funded childcare each week, for 48 weeks of the year, for all children aged from nine months to four years old. In my view, and the view of the Government, and in the view of every expert on poverty and child development, the expansion of childcare is not merely a 'nice to have', but it's absolutely essential. Whether or not to expand funded childcare is not a question to discuss. The lack of affordable childcare is a societal problem to solve, and in solving it, we will deliver benefits that span across gender equality, early child development, tackling poverty, supporting our economy, and improving our children's health and educational outcomes. Having stated with pride our aim of delivering a universal childcare offer, and with us now 57 days into this Government term, we have progressed with this and made excellent progress. We have been working on our plans with local government and sector representatives through the newly established expert group, and we have already announced an additional £55 million of funding through the supplementary budget to support the initial phase of the expansion programme. As part of the process of developing our manifesto, we carefully costed an expanded childcare offer, and we identified the additional funding required to deliver the full expansion. And now in Government, officials have undertaken further economic modelling. On that basis, we are developing clearer costs, considering the assumptions behind them. The modelling undertaken so far suggests that, at today's prices, the core costs of the full expansion of our offer will require an additional £375 million a year. This is a mid-point estimate, and work is ongoing with our economists and analysts to test and model a range of variables, which includes the costs at each phase of expansion and potential take-up rates. As advised by our expansion of childcare expert steering group, we will also take into account not only workforce costs, but a range of factors, including training and development, additional learning needs, local authority support and capital. The level of additional funding required, indicated by Welsh Government economists to date, aligns with the detailed work undertaken by Plaid Cymru in preparation to make this policy commitment. Our clear aim is that families of all children from nine months to four years across Wales should be able to access a more affordable, simpler, more consistent childcare offer by the end of this Senedd term. Achieving this aim will require careful sequencing, along with partnership working and ongoing funding decisions, but we are determined to maintain the momentum. The latest data, published on 1 July, shows that we are now offering funded childcare to nearly 75 per cent of all two-year-olds across Wales in 2025-26. However, we want to go further and ensure that what was promised by the previous Labour Government, but not delivered, is fully implemented. I want us to reach all our two-year-old children as quickly as possible and I am urging local authorities to complete this first phase by the end of this financial year. This is what families want and deserve. At the start of this Government term, three local authorities had succeeded in completing the roll-out of 12.5 hours of funded childcare to all two-year olds. One other local authority has reached every two-year-old child last month. And 16 more local authorities have already confirmed that, with the additional funding that we will invest through the supplementary budget, they'll be able to move to a full roll-out by the end of this financial year, which demonstrates our commitment to deliver our new offer to families across Wales. Officials are working closely with the remaining two local authorities to understand how they can be supported to deliver this phase at this point. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767799 330 Cy 2026-07-14T16:40:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=11402&l=en 260714-6 5. Statement by the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality: Update on Early Years Childcare and Play C 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767802 331 En 2026-07-14T16:42:47 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=11569&l=en 260714-6 5. Statement by the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality: Update on Early Years Childcare and Play C 8670 8670 Sioned Williams https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=8670 Williams, Sioned Partnership working is a key element of delivery, and I met local authorities and Cwlwm earlier today as part of a workshop to discuss the practical challenges and opportunities of delivery and how to work together to deliver accessible childcare to more families at pace. The childcare landscape in Wales is unnecessarily complex—for providers, partners and parents—and we are building on existing programmes, entitlements and delivery arrangements, while looking honestly at complexity, barriers and unnecessary burdens. I am determined to maintain momentum and enable local authorities and providers to move as quickly as possible through the phases of delivery. So, after rolling out 12.5 hours for all two-year-olds, the focus will be on increasing provision for two-year-olds to 20 hours and 48 weeks. We will consider flexibility on the pace of the roll-out, based on local circumstances, encouraging expansion to go further and faster where possible, so that families are supported quickly. Some areas and providers will be able to increase hours, weeks or both more quickly than others, however, I am encouraging and expecting a laser focus on delivering this commitment.  In areas that have already rolled out 12.5 hours, they will be encouraged to take the next step of expansion, offering additional hours and weeks of the year, depending on practicalities locally. And, in parallel, I want local authorities to start working with all providers to roll out the expanded offer to three and four-year-olds on a universal basis, and will be working with officials later this year to plan the resources and funding that this will require. This element will build on nursery education and will ensure that all children in this cohort, not just those whose parents meet the current eligibility criteria, will be able to access the benefits and enrichment of quality childcare. We will sequence this carefully, building on our existing offers for two-year-olds and three and four-year-olds, before moving to the final phase: 20 hours of universal childcare for children aged nine months to two years. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767787 332 En 2026-07-14T16:45:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=11702&l=en 260714-6 5. Statement by the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality: Update on Early Years Childcare and Play C 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767789 333 Cy 2026-07-14T16:45:03 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=11705&l=en 260714-6 5. Statement by the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality: Update on Early Years Childcare and Play C 8670 8670 Sioned Williams https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=8670 Williams, Sioned Increasing Welsh-medium provision throughout all of these phases will be a key element of our commitment, as an important first step to support entry into Welsh-medium education. We will continue to work closely with Mudiad Meithrin and other partners to ensure this is a core element across all phases of the expansion. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767791 334 En 2026-07-14T16:45:26 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=11728&l=en 260714-6 5. Statement by the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality: Update on Early Years Childcare and Play C 8670 8670 Sioned Williams https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=8670 Williams, Sioned The childcare workforce is central to expansion, which depends on the capacity, skills and support needed to deliver high-quality provision. Our economists and analysts are developing projections of how many staff we will need and where we will need them as we work through the delivery of these next phases. In partnership with the sector, we are exploring ideas and developing options to support workforce growth. We will produce a workforce plan that will outline how we will support the growth, recruitment and retention of the childcare workforce, improving working conditions and career pathways. I fully expect that Members and colleagues—and, most importantly, parents and carers—will continue to monitor our further announcements as we deliver on this commitment. But it is a pleasure to be here to not just discuss but begin to deliver universal funded childcare. We are moving the dial for children and families after years of treating childcare support as an optional add-on. We know that this will require significant investment. We know that this is an ambitious, complex commitment, but it is absolutely the right thing to do. Wales has the highest childcare costs in the UK, with many households spending more than their rent or mortgage on childcare costs. Women are disproportionately affected by this, and Wales has a persistent gender pay gap. Wales has some of the poorest children who cannot currently access the benefits of early years provision. We are making our commitment to change this a reality by delivering a childcare system that works for children and families. Diolch yn fawr. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767796 335 En 2026-07-14T16:47:13 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=11835&l=en 260714-6 5. Statement by the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality: Update on Early Years Childcare and Play C 12185 12185 Cristiana Emsley https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12185 Emsley, Cristiana Deputy First Minister, let me begin with what should unite us today. Every Member in this Chamber wants children to have the best possible start in life and families to have access to affordable, high-quality childcare. But you've just said today that whether or not to expand funded childcare is, quote, 'not up for debate'. With respect, Minister, everything on which this Government spends taxpayers' money is open to debate in this Chamber. Nobody disputes the importance of childcare. What is very much open to scrutiny is whether this Government has a credible, affordable and deliverable plan to provide it. Today's statement contains a contradiction at its very heart. You tell us that, whilst developing the manifesto, Plaid Cymru, quote, 'carefully costed' the expanded childcare offer, yet only moments later you tell us that officials are now developing clearer costs, reconsidering the assumptions behind them, modelling potential take-up rates and testing a range of variables. Deputy First Minister, you tell us this policy will cost £375 million a year, yet immediately describe that as only a midpoint estimate. A midpoint between what and what exactly? What is the Government's highest estimate? What is the maximum financial liability Welsh taxpayers could ultimately face? If Ministers know those figures, why have they not shared them with this Chamber? If they do not, how can they claim this policy was fully costed before the election? You also confirm that workforce projections are still being developed and that a workforce plan will be produced in the future. So, which is it? Was this policy properly costed before the election or are the central assumptions only now being worked through after Plaid entered Government? Because both claims cannot comfortably stand together. In fact, today's statement sounds less like a delivery plan and more like a plan to plan another plan. Officials are still modelling the cost, testing the assumptions, preparing workforce projections and promising a future workforce plan. That is not implementation. It is planning to plan some more. And this follows precisely the same pattern Reform Wales identified recently in relation to the proposed Cynnal child payment. Our written question revealed that an expert group is still considering the legal, policy and delivery issues surrounding this flagship commitment. Today's statement reveals that childcare costings, workforce requirements and delivery assumptions are also still being refined. That matters because these promises made a real difference on the doorstep. I met parents working long hours and families forced to choose between childcare and other essential household bills. Many saw these commitments as a lifeline. They believed that once Plaid Cymru entered Government, the support would begin to arrive, not that Ministers would then establish groups, test assumptions and begin working out how the promises might operate. Those families were entitled to believe the flagship policies put before them had been fully prepared. Instead, they are now discovering how much remains unresolved. When Reform asks about those unresolved questions, the answers are too often ambiguous. We ask for costings and receive aspirations. We ask for delivery and receive a direction of travel. We ask about workforce capability and are told that projections are still being developed. We identify discrepancies, and before long, yesterday's firm commitment becomes today's flexibility. Perhaps that is the new policy cycle: announce first, avoid the detail, and call the eventual u-turn a phased approach. The statement also tells us that 16 local authorities expect to complete the roll-out of 12.5 hours for two-year-olds by the end of this financial year, whilst officials continue to work with the remaining two. That progress is welcome, but the real promise is 20 hours for 48 weeks for every child from nine months to four years. That requires far more than urging local authorities to move quickly. It requires enough qualified staff, sustainable providers, adequate premises, Welsh-medium capacity, provision for children with additional learning needs and sufficient support in every part of Wales. Yet the Government still cannot tell us how many additional practitioners will be needed, where they will be needed, how they will be recruited, how retention will be improved, or what the full capital requirement will be. Those are not minor details. They are the foundations on which the entire promise depends. The more closely today's explanation is examined, the more gaps appear. Deputy First Minister, ambition is not the issue; preparedness is. Good intentions are not a delivery strategy. A midpoint estimate is not the final costings. The people of Wales deserve a Government that arrives with answers, not one that writes the manifesto first and the implementation plan afterwards. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767794 336 En 2026-07-14T16:50:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=12002&l=en 260714-6 5. Statement by the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality: Update on Early Years Childcare and Play C 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767800 337 Cy 2026-07-14T16:53:04 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=12186&l=en 260714-6 5. Statement by the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality: Update on Early Years Childcare and Play C 8670 8670 Sioned Williams https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=8670 Williams, Sioned Thank you for those questions.  16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767804 338 En 2026-07-14T16:53:09 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=12191&l=en 260714-6 5. Statement by the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality: Update on Early Years Childcare and Play C 8670 8670 Sioned Williams https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=8670 Williams, Sioned It does baffle me, you know. You said that this was very much welcomed on the doorstep. Well, we've seen the result of that, haven't we? We know that for years and years anti-poverty researchers and people who are trying to promote equality in Wales and in our society have seen this as a keystone, a foundational part of addressing that inequality. And yet all we get from Reform is talk about a worst-case scenario, a financial liability. And, of course, you didn't even mention it in your manifesto, because you had not realised, actually—. Or perhaps you're just not interested in reducing inequality. But this Government is, and this Government is delivering.  You asked me about delivery. I have just outlined to you the first phase and the initial costing of that. I have told you that by the end of this financial year, working with our partners in local authorities and providers, every child that is two years old in Wales will be entitled to 12.5 hours of childcare. That's the first phase. We have delivered at pace on that. We are delivering at pace on that. When we came into this Government, three local authorities had managed to achieve that after many years of this being a Welsh Government policy under the last administration. So, I'm not going to take the criticism that we are not delivering. We absolutely are. Fifty-seven days into this Government, we absolutely are delivering on this first phase. I've been extremely clear from the beginning. Perhaps you weren't listening to the debate. Perhaps you would have done better in the election if you had. But our party made it absolutely clear that this was a phased plan. Anyone who knows anything about childcare is going to understand the complexity of the current system. I suggest you do a little bit of reading in order to see what the complex landscape is at the moment. That's why we have an expert group steering us in this work. I have also mentioned the midpoint. As I set out in my statement, there are variables here. There are variables as regards the modelling, and that's the work we're doing. The figure that I set out is the midpoint of the take-up that we have seen in other parts of the UK that have similar demographics, which we could then reasonably expect would be reflected here in Wales. But, of course, we know that the full cost of this modelling—. The maximum is usually about 80 per cent take-up. The additional funding that would be needed would be between £250 million and £500 million. The £375 million is a midpoint estimate. The precise funding will always depend on take-up rates. We have to have estimates and modelling around all those scenarios. That's why the work is ongoing. It's not about making a plan, it's about making sure that we can deliver what is actually needed as we work through these phases. We will always be able to respond then to any emerging trends that we see happen. This is an ambitious policy. We would hope that, if we build it, they will come. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767797 339 En 2026-07-14T16:55:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=12302&l=en 260714-6 5. Statement by the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality: Update on Early Years Childcare and Play C 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767801 340 En 2026-07-14T16:56:36 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=12398&l=en 260714-6 5. Statement by the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality: Update on Early Years Childcare and Play C 174 174 Lynne Neagle https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=174 Neagle, Lynne Can I thank the Deputy First Minister for the update today, which is very helpful for us to receive before we go into recess? I was going to ask about the other points on the scale of the costings that you've done, so it's helpful to have the information that you provided in response to the previous speaker. As you're aware, a particular concern of mine is the impact of this commitment on Flying Start provision. I've said repeatedly that Flying Start is so much more than just childcare. It's enhanced health visiting, it's speech and language therapy, and it's parenting support. And we know how critical those first 1,000 days are for our children. I have asked you before about what the ramifications of this commitment are for Flying Start. What I'm worried about is that we could see a reduction in the numbers of children who are receiving all four elements of Flying Start in order to fund this, and I would be grateful for a clear answer on that today. I very much welcome the commitment in the statement to a workforce plan. Clearly, that is going to be vital. I wanted to ask if you had any timings for the development of that workforce plan. Also, under the previous Government, there was a commitment to promote fair work within the childcare workforce, who we know are some of the lowest paid, and mostly women workers. So, I wondered how you would be embedding the principles of fair work into any workforce plan. I did want to ask about the childcare expert steering group—and thank you for the letter that you sent, which I've now mislaid in front of me. I don't mean any criticism of anybody who's on the steering group, because there are people there who I know and respect: officials, people involved in Welsh public life. But what I was surprised about was that there weren't more independent experts on there. There is someone there from the London School of Economics, or an institution like that, but I would have liked to have seen some more independent experts on there given the scale of this expansion, so that we have some expert advisers who can identify any unintended consequences and also advise on the child development aspects of this offer. So, I was interested in your comments on that and whether you've got any plans to extend the expert group. Your statement highlights the fact that some areas and providers will be able to move faster than others. Obviously, it's acknowledged that some areas have got less childcare provision, and some of those are the poorest areas and the ones where we most need that provision. So, I wondered if you'd be doing any focused work to ensure that we don't entrench inequalities as we roll out this offer. And then, just finally, you've committed to maintaining the 30 hours for working parents at the same time as rolling out the 20 hours for other parents. Now, it's my understanding that, in England, there was some evidence that where there was a lower threshold for some parents, there was a bit of a disincentive to childcare providers giving the childcare offer to parents who were accessing the lower number of hours, and I wondered if you'd considered that and what steps you'd be taking to mitigate that risk, so that everybody gets genuinely high-quality childcare. Diolch. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767795 341 En 2026-07-14T17:00:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=12602&l=en 260714-6 5. Statement by the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality: Update on Early Years Childcare and Play C 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767805 342 En 2026-07-14T17:04:57 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=12899&l=en 260714-6 5. Statement by the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality: Update on Early Years Childcare and Play C 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767798 343 En 2026-07-14T17:00:51 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=12653&l=en 260714-6 5. Statement by the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality: Update on Early Years Childcare and Play C 8670 8670 Sioned Williams https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=8670 Williams, Sioned Diolch yn fawr for the questions. As regards Flying Start, as I've said, this isn't about—and I've said in previous statements, and I hope I've outlined it here again today—just adding hours; absolutely not. This is about taking a system-wide approach to transforming support for children in the early years. Childcare, as I said, is our manifesto commitment. It's absolutely a key part of that, and so, of course, the immediate priority is to make sure that we can start that work of rolling out what we've promised to the Welsh electorate, and then build, as I say, towards the next stages of expansion, as I've mapped out today. But the wider support services that are associated with early intervention and prevention programmes, such as Flying Start and Families First, of course, with that enhanced health visiting, with the parental support and speech, language and communication support, of course—they're absolutely fundamental to the preventative agenda of this Government. I absolutely recognise that they are vital for supporting children and families who need that additional help in the work that we want to do to reduce inequalities for disadvantaged children specifically. So, the expansion itself is focused on funded childcare, but as an absolute part of that work, we want to move towards a clearer, more consistent and more unified system across the piece, protecting the wider support that children have that helps them get the best start in life. So, that approach will evolve over time. As regards the workforce, you're absolutely right as regards the workforce. We know that we've got a lot of work to do here. That's why we're going to bring forward a specific plan. That will be in the autumn, because I think it will be aligned with what we're going to need to have conversations with the Cabinet Minister for Finance about. But our expert steering group absolutely has workforce planning at the top of its agenda, and we are listening to partners in the sector around what we can do, the creative solutions we can have and the incentivisation around recruitment and retention that we can bring forward there. So, as I say, it's absolutely central. We have to have the capacity, the skills and the support in place to deliver the provision that we want for our children. We're currently working on estimates, as I said, based on the modelling that we're doing. We'll turn that into a workforce plan, building on existing provision with our partners, with Social Care Wales, with local authorities and Cwlwm to have that sharp focus. As I said, it will build on existing provision, but we know we need to go further. You also asked me about the role of the expert steering group. The economist that you mentioned is one of the lead economists in the UK that looks at early years and childcare provision throughout the UK. He's published papers on what's happened, for instance, in England. That group, I think, very well represents the voices we need in the room, but it isn't limited, and that's in the terms of reference of the steering group. We do bring in independent experts and have presentations from them. We had somebody from the Department for Education last week, someone who was key in designing the roll-out in England, for us to be able to hear from him and also to hear about the lessons that need to be learned, because we don't want to replicate any of the unintended consequences that we've seen in some regards in what's happened with the roll-out in England. So, those unintended consequences or worsening inequalities are absolutely not what we want to have, and so we are thoroughly considering that. Diolch. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767812 344 Cy 2026-07-14T17:09:59 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=13201&l=en 260714-6 5. Statement by the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality: Update on Early Years Childcare and Play C 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767803 345 En 2026-07-14T17:05:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=12902&l=en 260714-6 5. Statement by the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality: Update on Early Years Childcare and Play C 8734 8734 Sam Rowlands https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=8734 Rowlands, Sam I'd like to, first of all, thank the Cabinet Minister for today's statement and for the advance notice of it that she provided to Members. Absolutely, every parent and carer wants the best start for their child, but for too many families the cost of childcare is making that much harder. We all know parents who are weighing up whether it's even worth returning to work because those childcare costs take up such a large proportion of their income, and, as the Cabinet Minister outlined, in some cases, those costs are higher than rent, mortgages or other headline costs. Of course, the challenge that we're discussing today also feeds into this broader issue of falling birth rates and the challenge that that's going to present to us as a nation in the years to come. That's why we, on these benches, welcome any genuine attempt to make childcare more affordable and more accessible to parents. But I guess the question in this place today is whether what's being discussed can actually be delivered. Because, of course, warm words, on their own, aren't enough. To begin with, we believe that the childcare system in its current form is far too complex, especially for parents to navigate and understand what they are entitled to, and I acknowledge the Cabinet Minister's reference to that in her statement here today. We believe that one of the first things that the Welsh Government should be looking at is how to streamline and simplify childcare funding so that parents in particular can easily understand what support is available to them so that they can properly plan for the future. So, I'd be interested to know, Cabinet Minister, what actions you'll be taking to engage with parents and carers to ensure that any unnecessary complexity is taken out of the system for them. Secondly, the announcement of the £55 million investment is, of course, welcome. However, families and providers need greater clarity about how this funding will, exactly, be used—how many additional children will benefit—and certainty that it will reach those who need it most. On the funding point, I do want to pick up on the comments made by my colleague in Fflint Wrecsam, who was absolutely right to call out this midpoint estimate of £375 million. I believe, in your response, you suggested that there is a range there, of course, and the maximum could be up to a £500 million cost. That is, of course, significantly higher than initially expected from your manifesto, so I'm interested to understand how you're planning to manage that potential cost. I appreciate it's not necessarily what the cost will be, but how are you managing to mitigate any unnecessary escalation in costs? I'm interested also, Cabinet Minister, in the response you gave to our Labour colleague on the broader support services for families and for children, and how you'll be working with health services to ensure that holistic support is available and the capacity is there in those health services to deliver on that ambition that you mentioned in your response to Lynne Neagle. I also want to recognise the pressures that childcare providers are under, as colleagues have done already. We know that these are often small businesses delivering an essential service, often on very limited margins. We know that they're often struggling with rising costs, recruitment challenges and tight budgets. You have already acknowledged the necessity of a workforce plan and you've outlined that the plan will come forward in the autumn. I'm interested to understand how you expect to work with skills providers to ensure that the workforce is available quickly, because you will know, of course, that those skills take years to be in place, and you want to move at pace on this issue. I also welcome the updated national minimum standards. Every child deserves a safe environment where they can learn, develop and enjoy being a child. Higher standards matter, but so does ensuring providers have the support and resources to meet them. Would you be able to explain what support will be available to help settings implement these new standards? Finally, Cabinet Minister, you may have noted that in our manifesto we talked about an idea around a grandparent payment scheme or a nominated family payment scheme to recognise the role of the wider family in bringing up children. You say that it takes a village to bring up a child. I wonder what consideration you’ve given to a scheme similar to that, where a nominated family member is able to be supported to support bringing a child up, rather than, perhaps, necessarily, that money always going to a childcare provider setting. At the end of the day, parents want childcare that is safe, affordable and reliable. Providers want a system that is properly funded, sustainable and workable. Those are the priorities that we should all be focused on. Diolch yn fawr iawn. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767806 346 Cy 2026-07-14T17:10:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=13202&l=en 260714-6 5. Statement by the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality: Update on Early Years Childcare and Play C 8670 8670 Sioned Williams https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=8670 Williams, Sioned Thank you for those questions. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767807 347 En 2026-07-14T17:10:02 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=13204&l=en 260714-6 5. Statement by the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality: Update on Early Years Childcare and Play C 8670 8670 Sioned Williams https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=8670 Williams, Sioned In the first point, really, you were querying about the midpoint, and I think I've tried to explain. I think we said in our manifesto it was going to be around £400 million additional, so what we're seeing as the midpoint—that was modelled on a midpoint as well. It’s the common practice. So, the midpoint that we've modelled here is £375 million. But as I said, obviously—because this is demand-led, this is a new thing—we're hoping that all the discussion around childcare will make sure—. And the point you made around simplifying the process too—we know that many people don't take up childcare, not only because it's disjointed, but because it's difficult, it's complex and there are so many different eligibility thresholds, things you've got to apply for at different points during your child's life. So, I can assure you that the point around simplification and what that looks like, what that front door looks like, is absolutely part of this work as well. And my officials are already working on that. So, it isn't higher, actually; it's around the same as what we projected, but we do recognise, of course, that there are all kinds of variables as we push forward towards the next phases that we need to allow for. But I do welcome your support for this initiative, for this policy, and, as I said, I agree absolutely on your point around simplifying the system. On your point around the way this policy interacts with other policy areas, it does, obviously, around education. Part of this work is about—. We've seen, haven't we, it's been exacerbated since COVID, but we've seen for a long time that families do need more support in order to make sure that their children are ready to learn, and this is going to play a big part in that. So, I'm having conversations—I actually met yesterday again with the Cabinet Minister for Education and the Welsh Language. We are working on how we can measure that, how we can evaluate the effect that this will have on that readiness to learn while keeping that absolutely child-centred, that evaluation. So, it will interact across Government and, as I said, especially with health, the interventions, the team around the family, and that support we will absolutely retain, but in a different form as we roll out this universal system. You asked me about exactly how the additional funding from the supplementary budget was going to be utilised. We've said that we're going to invest an additional £55 million in the additional budget. So, hopefully, if you support this policy, you can support that budget this afternoon. Twenty million pounds of that will help to accelerate the roll-out, so that's the work we've indicated to local authorities that they're able to utilise in order to make sure that we get to the point where funded childcare is available to all two-year-olds in Wales by the end of this financial year. Then there's £10 million of capital funding, which is going to help enhance and expand childcare settings, improving quality and capacity and accessibility of early years provision. And then £25 million of that is going to be used to support the wider system, including managing rising demand, because we're talking about it a lot more now—it's been such a front-and-centre policy during the election. People are coming to access more provision, which is great. We need to make it easier for them and more affordable for them. We want to strengthen the long-term sustainability of providers, and that's something you talked about as well. And that is something that is absolutely crucial as well, and, again, is part of the work that we're doing. So, we're already investing in that, and, of course, supporting Welsh-medium childcare is part of that as well. So, on the last point on safeguarding, I think it is a really important point, and quality, you know, with the national minimum standard, which was updated last month. Wales has the highest national standards issued under the Children and Families (Wales) Measure 2010, and the Child Minding and Day Care (Wales) Regulations 2010, and Care Inspectorate Wales, of course is a regulatory body, so we will always make sure that anyone who is registered for providing day care and child minding will be inspected according to those regulations. We are looking at creative solutions. You know, I think we really need to consider child minders in this, who are constantly coming up as 'excellent' and 'good' when they're inspected. They provide such a valuable service for people who work irregular hours, especially in places where there isn't a density of population. So, we will absolutely be considering other models of provision as we roll this out. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767808 348 En 2026-07-14T17:15:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=13502&l=en 260714-6 5. Statement by the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality: Update on Early Years Childcare and Play C 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767809 349 En 2026-07-14T17:15:01 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=13503&l=en 260714-6 5. Statement by the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality: Update on Early Years Childcare and Play C 5053 5053 Huw Irranca-Davies https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=5053 Llywydd Irranca-Davies, Huw We'll move now to the one-minute contributions. We have many speakers, but not enough time, I think, to accommodate all, but, bear with us, we'll see how we can do with everybody's help. Kiera Marshall. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767810 350 En 2026-07-14T17:15:12 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=13514&l=en 260714-6 5. Statement by the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality: Update on Early Years Childcare and Play C 12166 12166 Kiera Marshall https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12166 Marshall, Kiera Diolch, Lywydd. I'd like to declare an interest, as I have a beautiful 11-month daughter who will be going into childcare next month. But I'd like to thank the Government and the Deputy First Minister for her statement today and all the work that's clearly being done on this policy. I don't think we can overstate how transformational this policy is going to be, and I think, when people ask what has Wales done differently and what has devolution achieved, previously, they might have pointed to free prescriptions or the 5p bag charge, and I think, at full roll-out, I really believe it's going to be this policy. But it needs to be done right—no pressure there. One issue that's being raised with me a lot is general workforce capacity for the expansion, and specifically Welsh-medium provision. I know from my own experience that one nursery I approached in Cardiff was at full capacity until 2027, and there are not many Welsh language providers already.  And then I've also had providers raise issues specifically with support for younger babies, from nine months until two years, and I was assured in your statement today that that's going to be in the later part of the roll-out, which will allow for this capacity building up. But I just wonder if you could provide some clarity there. I think investment in the supplementary budget is obviously going to really help this as well. But yes, once this— 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767811 351 Cy 2026-07-14T17:16:22 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=13584&l=en 260714-6 5. Statement by the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality: Update on Early Years Childcare and Play C 5053 5053 Huw Irranca-Davies https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=5053 Llywydd Irranca-Davies, Huw Cabinet Minister. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767813 352 En 2026-07-14T17:16:23 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=13585&l=en 260714-6 5. Statement by the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality: Update on Early Years Childcare and Play C 12166 12166 Kiera Marshall https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12166 Marshall, Kiera —capacity review is complete, what creative solutions, as you said, will the Government be using to build that capacity in these areas? Diolch. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767814 353 En 2026-07-14T17:16:29 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=13591&l=en 260714-6 5. Statement by the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality: Update on Early Years Childcare and Play C 8670 8670 Sioned Williams https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=8670 Williams, Sioned Diolch yn fawr. I really do welcome the support. I'm really excited about this policy, and we saw that excitement on the doors, didn't we? Because I think you can compare it. When we deliver this, it will be up there with the most—well, the most—generous offer in the UK, certainly—world leading, actually. There are nations that are very much ahead of us, but I think that this is something that should be a real badge of honour for Wales. More than that, it won't be an empty badge of honour; this will be something that makes a real difference to people's lives. So, I think it's great to see the enthusiasm for this expansion. I'm hearing it from stakeholders and partners. It is a significant commitment, and, yes, it will require a substantial increase in workforce numbers. So, as I said, this is a key theme of the work of our expert group. We are developing those projections of how many staff we're going to need, where we're going to need them as we're working through these phases. A specific phase of that expansion is to extend the funded childcare to nine months to two years. We know that will require a step change in provision. This is completely new. The first two phases are building on something that is already provided in part. This will be new, so there will be specific actions needed there to grow the workforce. That'll be informed by the work we're currently doing. I'll update colleagues regularly as we reach that phase. Of course, Welsh-medium provision, as you would expect, is a core element of this expansion and a core concern of this Government. So, we're working closely with Mudiad Meithrin. The chief executive, Dr Catrin Edwards, is a member of the expert steering group. We are already taking measures now. We announced a new pilot scheme, which is coming through the National Centre for Learning Welsh, to build the Welsh language skills of our childcare workforce in order to increase that capacity. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767820 354 En 2026-07-14T17:18:37 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=13719&l=en 260714-6 5. Statement by the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality: Update on Early Years Childcare and Play C 12154 12154 Catherine Cullen https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12154 Cullen, Catherine We have a statement on early years childcare and play, but I note in it that play is not mentioned once. When we look back to our own childhoods, play develops resilience, communication skills and emotional well-being. For many children, particularly those that are facing disadvantage, play can be the difference between isolation and inclusion, between struggling and thriving. In my constituency, I've had people complain—this is Blaenau Gwent Caerffili Rhymni—about play services there. So, I took the opportunity last week to go over to Torfaen, where they've got absolutely excellent play services. Torfaen Play are offering to young people of all ages—so, these are little ones as well—they support children with additional needs, care-experienced children, young carers and families across the community. What stood out for me was not only the breadth of work, but the life-changing impact. So, what we've got is, in Blaenau Gwent Caerffili Rhymni, we've got children that are really struggling through lack of play facilities, but, in Torfaen, it's the opposite way round. So, for a Government who talks persistently about equality, could I ask what measures they are taking to ensure that high-quality play opportunities are available for everybody, regardless of where they live, and is there funding specifically for play? 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767792 355 En 2026-07-14T17:20:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=13802&l=en 260714-6 5. Statement by the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality: Update on Early Years Childcare and Play C 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767816 356 En 2026-07-14T17:20:01 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=13803&l=en 260714-6 5. Statement by the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality: Update on Early Years Childcare and Play C 8670 8670 Sioned Williams https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=8670 Williams, Sioned This statement is specifically on the childcare expansion, but I accept, of course, that these things are linked. Play is within my portfolio; I'm not speaking about that today, but I would encourage you to ask me questions about that when I am here to answer questions on my broader portfolio. But I would say that ensuring children have access to childcare absolutely helps to socialise them, to bring out that play, which we know is absolutely key to children's development. As I said before, this is about making children also more ready for school and learning, getting into that foundation phase. But I would encourage you to perhaps ask me a question or write to me specifically about your concerns as regards play. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767819 357 En 2026-07-14T17:20:53 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=13855&l=en 260714-6 5. Statement by the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality: Update on Early Years Childcare and Play C 12141 12141 Zaynub Akbar https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12141 Akbar, Zaynub Cabinet Minister, families in Cardiff already face some of the highest childcare costs in Wales, with average fees significantly above those in other areas. One constituent of mine in particular, Lizzie, recently told me that she is paying £92 a day for a local nursery. She says, in her words, 'Childcare is single-handedly the biggest financial issue for my family and the reason we cannot yet afford to have a second child. We currently pay over £1,400 a month, which is £400 more than our mortgage.' Llywydd, given the significant childcare costs faced by many families in Cardiff specifically, it is crucial that the expanded offer reflects the pressures being felt in our higher cost communities, in addition to the needs of the rest of Wales. So, I wanted to ask: when can Lizzie and other families across Cardiff, specifically, expect to be included in the expanded offer, what factors are determining which areas are being prioritised, and how can you ensure fairness for families in higher cost areas like Cardiff in the meantime? 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767821 358 Cy 2026-07-14T17:22:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=13922&l=en 260714-6 5. Statement by the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality: Update on Early Years Childcare and Play C 8670 8670 Sioned Williams https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=8670 Williams, Sioned Thank you very much for the question. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767822 359 En 2026-07-14T17:22:02 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=13924&l=en 260714-6 5. Statement by the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality: Update on Early Years Childcare and Play C 8670 8670 Sioned Williams https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=8670 Williams, Sioned I absolutely agree that childcare costs across Wales are prohibitively high. One of the reasons for this policy is understanding that it will be a mitigation against the high cost of living for families. It will put money back in people's pockets, and parents, especially mothers, of course, can find themselves locked out of the labour market, and children then, of course, prevented from accessing all the benefits of quality childcare. So, as regards prioritisation, we're committed to make progress on the expansion as soon as we can. As I mentioned in my statement, we're making very good progress to offer childcare to all two-year-olds all over Wales, and we're urging all local authorities to work with us to complete this stage, and, as I say, the vast majority of them are there and will be there. So, at the moment, thousands of children across Wales don't get any childcare support, and so we're going to go from that current reality to a system where all families are able to access support, but we have to add to that support incrementally until we reach our full commitment. But by proceeding with and getting early momentum with this initial phase, I think, of getting 12.5 hours funded childcare to all two-year-olds, we're really laying the foundations of that truly universal funded childcare offer, which, as I say, is something only a handful of countries in the world have achieved. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767823 360 En 2026-07-14T17:23:41 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=14023&l=en 260714-6 5. Statement by the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality: Update on Early Years Childcare and Play C 12167 12167 Sarah Cooper-Lesadd https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12167 Cooper-Lesadd, Sarah I'd like to thank Kiera Marshall for her excellent question on capacity. The Minister has characterised these benches as focused on worst-case scenarios. I asked whether she'd modelled for very high demand, because planning for a policy that succeeds beyond expectation isn't negativity, it's prudence, but today my question is about proving success. Last week, the Minister told this Senedd we're not able to measure the difference in Wales that having early years education makes. You stated last week that early years provision transforms children's potential, but I'm asking about benchmarking, yet she has told us Wales cannot currently measure that difference. So, this roll-out is happening now. How will the Minister prove that this £375 million policy delivers the transformation she describes when the children reached first will have received the offer before any baseline would have been analysed or met? So, this is about benchmarking. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767824 361 En 2026-07-14T17:24:36 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=14078&l=en 260714-6 5. Statement by the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality: Update on Early Years Childcare and Play C 8670 8670 Sioned Williams https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=8670 Williams, Sioned Thank you for the question. I think I just answered the question in that we absolutely recognise the need for better benchmarking; we simply haven't got that in place. It exists in parts, but it isn't satisfactory and isn't measuring what we think we need it to measure. Having seen learning from childcare provision both in the UK and internationally, we can see that, for instance, 100 per cent is unlikely. However, as work continues on developing this policy, we are, as I said, going to respond to any emerging trend, and that will include demand. And we remain ready and willing—and that's why this work has to be planned and phased in this way, in order to respond to those things—to adjust and refine our plans. But this is an ambitious Government, as I said, and we fully hope that as many children as possible take up the offer that we'll be able to give them.  16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767826 362 En 2026-07-14T17:25:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=14102&l=en 260714-6 5. Statement by the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality: Update on Early Years Childcare and Play C 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767827 363 En 2026-07-14T17:25:39 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=14141&l=en 260714-6 5. Statement by the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality: Update on Early Years Childcare and Play C 4983 4983 Jane Dodds https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=4983 Dodds, Jane I do welcome this statement. Thank you very much for all of the work that's gone into it. You've said that you've got a laser focus on delivering this, having had the ambition that many of the parties here in this Siambr had. So, I really take issue with Reform UK and your spokesperson criticising the ambition, because you never had an ambition—nothing in your manifesto talked about childcare whatsoever. So, the criticism of the ambition is actually without any foundation.  My question to you, though, if I may, is about our private providers. We do rely on private providers across Wales, and particularly in rural areas we see that they're really up against it. So, how will their interests be represented on your panel, because currently it's only through Cwlwm? Will you be looking to get more views from independent providers? And also how will that be rolled out in rural areas? Diolch yn fawr iawn.  16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767828 364 Cy 2026-07-14T17:26:36 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=14198&l=en 260714-6 5. Statement by the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality: Update on Early Years Childcare and Play C 8670 8670 Sioned Williams https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=8670 Williams, Sioned Thank you very much to the Member for the question, and thank you very much for the support and for the campaigning work that you and others in this Chamber have done on this crucial policy area. I'm pleased that you share our ambition for the children of Wales, and I know you do.  In terms of that voice on the panel, Cwlwm, as you mentioned, are represented on the panel, but also there is a representative from the WLGA, who of course represents all of Wales's local authorities. So, they are vocal and taking those messages from their councils in terms of the particular situation in the many diverse areas of Wales. And as I mentioned, this group is not limited. There is a core membership, and what we are doing and have done—we've met twice already—is that we ask people to join us. So, looking at the rural picture will certainly be part of that, and, as I said, those differing needs that will exist across Wales will be one of the things that we will certainly be considering.  16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767841 365 Cy 260714-6 5. Statement by the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality: Update on Early Years Childcare and Play I The Deputy Presiding Officer (Kerry Ferguson) took the Chair. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767829 366 Cy 2026-07-14T17:27:52 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=14274&l=en 260714-6 5. Statement by the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Minister for Social Justice and Equality: Update on Early Years Childcare and Play C 12177 12177 Kerry Ferguson https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12177 Deputy Presiding Officer Ferguson, Kerry Thank you, Deputy First Minister.  16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767830 367 Cy 2026-07-14T17:27:54 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=14276&l=en 260714-7 6. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Public and Preventative Health: Priorities for Public and Preventative Health C 12177 12177 Kerry Ferguson https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12177 Deputy Presiding Officer Ferguson, Kerry We'll move on, therefore, to item 6, a statement by the Deputy Minister for Public Health and Preventative Health, priorities for public and preventative health. I call on the Deputy Minister for Public and Preventative Health, Nerys Evans.  16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767832 368 Cy 2026-07-14T17:28:10 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=14292&l=en 260714-7 6. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Public and Preventative Health: Priorities for Public and Preventative Health C 261 261 Nerys Evans https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=261 Deputy Minister for Public and Preventative Health Evans, Nerys Dirprwy Lywydd, today I am setting out my ministerial priorities for public and preventative health for this Senedd term. As we celebrate 78 years since Aneurin Bevan established the NHS, built on the radical principle that the circumstances of your birth should never determine the quality of your care, it is worth recalling Bevan's own words, 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767833 369 En 2026-07-14T17:28:33 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=14315&l=en 260714-7 6. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Public and Preventative Health: Priorities for Public and Preventative Health C 261 261 Nerys Evans https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=261 Evans, Nerys 'the victories won by preventive medicine are much the most important for mankind.' 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767834 370 Cy 2026-07-14T17:28:38 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=14320&l=en 260714-7 6. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Public and Preventative Health: Priorities for Public and Preventative Health C 261 261 Nerys Evans https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=261 Evans, Nerys More than seven decades on, that message remains as relevant as ever. But treating illness is never enough on its own. Preventative and public health are the key to unlocking a more sustainable future for our health system and our wider population. In an age where demands on services are increasing, people's needs are becoming more complex and financial pressures are intensifying, we must shift away from managing sickness to treating the root causes. For the first time since devolution, Wales now has a Minister with specific responsibility for preventative health. That is a significant step forward. It represents a clear statement of intent from the First Minister that preventing ill health is a national priority. This approach also reflects manifesto commitments to a wider shift towards preventative spending across all portfolio areas. The need to make this change is not new. What has been missing is the determination to deliver it. For too long, our models, processes and ways of working have been focused on responding to crises, rather than preventing them and helping people to live healthier and happier lives. This changes now. Under this Government, success will be measured not by the number of hospital admissions, but by the number of people who stay healthy enough to avoid hospital altogether. This isn't a standalone initiative. We are embedding this work across Government through a series of strategic measures to ensure it's reflected in everything that we do. I have already had discussions with all Cabinet Ministers and Deputy Ministers to consider how we embed prevention more effectively and focus on improving the health of everyone in Wales. But every journey begins with a first step, and those early steps matter just as much as the destination. This statement sets out the foundations that have already been laid to put us on the right path. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767815 371 Cy 2026-07-14T17:30:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=14402&l=en 260714-7 6. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Public and Preventative Health: Priorities for Public and Preventative Health C 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767818 372 En 2026-07-14T17:30:02 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=14404&l=en 260714-7 6. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Public and Preventative Health: Priorities for Public and Preventative Health C 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767817 373 En 2026-07-14T17:30:47 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=14449&l=en 260714-7 6. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Public and Preventative Health: Priorities for Public and Preventative Health C 261 261 Nerys Evans https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=261 Evans, Nerys I have agreed with the First Minister that Government decision making will be informed by a shared focus on public and preventative health. Official and ministerial-level cross-Government governance arrangements are being established to support this. These arrangements will provide the foundations for a comprehensive new public health strategy and framework for Wales. Embedding prevention and health into decision making will be supported with the guidance and support for public bodies in preparing for when the Health Impact Assessment (Wales) Regulations 2025 come into force next year. Being serious about prevention also means having the budgetary mechanisms to match, and in line with our first 100 days commitments, officials are in the process of exploring better defining preventative spending within the Welsh budget, with the aim of instilling greater coherence in the deployment of resources. I have also held discussions with the Cabinet Minister for Finance and Treasury officials on options for the introduction of a designated preventative departmental expenditure limit—PDEL—within the Welsh Budget. In addition to the strategic cross-Government work, there are immediate priorities that we will be tackling, in addition to rolling out the 100-day commitments. I fully recognise the need for us to provide healthy environments that support people to make healthier choices and maintain a healthy weight, to reduce the risk of severe, life-threatening conditions, including type 2 diabetes, heart disease, stroke and certain cancers. This includes the roll-out of prevention programmes to encourage and support children and adults to be more active in line with the recent changes to the UK Chief Medical Officers' evidence-based physical activity guidelines. I recognise that weight-loss medications have a place for some patients, but we cannot simply medicate our way out of the high levels of obesity that we see across Wales and the UK. It must form part of a blended approach that includes looking at the food systems, regulation, availability and promotion of physical activity, alongside more medicalised interventions. We're getting to work straight away, through our first 100 days commitments. Firstly, on advancing the active mile and the Daily Mile Foundation work across primary schools, with preliminary work well under way with stakeholders to begin the roll-out. Secondly, I have discussed with the Cabinet Minister for Culture and Sport strengthening partnership working between health services and sport organisations, and the wider role both arts and sports can have in health pathways, and have agreed we will embed a workstream for this work within our new cross-Government structures. I will also be working closely with my colleague the Cabinet Secretary for Rural Resilience and Sustainability on the development of the food strategy for Wales. Together, we will consider the fundamental changes needed to strengthen our food systems and the opportunity this presents to improve access to affordable, nutritious food, support locally produced Welsh food, and embed healthy, sustainable food choices, education and awareness within our schools. Alongside this, we will be examining how we create healthier food environments across Wales. This includes considering the levers available to us to support healthier choices in the retail sector, across the out-of-home food settings, and within our communities, helping to make the healthy choice the easy choice. I am firmly committed to addressing the concerning rise in vaping among children and young people. Nearly one in four of our 11 to 16-year-olds has tried vaping, despite these products having been developed as a smoking cessation aid for adult smokers. The unintended consequences of their widespread availability and appeal to young people are deeply concerning, and this Government is determined to take action. The consultation we launched last week marks the first step in delivering the robust measures needed to protect the health of the next generation. Lung cancer disproportionately affects those from the most deprived communities, with a higher incidence rate in these areas. I am committed to improving outcomes with the development of a national lung cancer screening programme with integrated smoking cessation services. Smoking remains one of the leading causes of preventable illness and deaths in Wales and highlights stark inequalities. And through the groundbreaking Tobacco and Vapes Act 2026, we will progress towards the goal of creating the first smoke-free generation in Wales, and this will include work to further reduce smoking rates during pregnancy, which in Wales are the highest amongst the UK nations. My approach to addiction includes tackling substance misuse and is based on the principle of harm reduction, to support and protect families and communities from the problems associated with harmful substance use. I am focused on working across the Welsh Government to do all that we can to tackle the risk factors for substance misuse, alongside work to strengthen support for those that need it, ensuring our work is informed by the voices of those with lived experience. Reducing the equity gap will play a key role in my future vision for preventative services. This includes work to promote vaccinations and screening, which are disproportionately less prevalent amongst our most deprived communities. This will involve better engagement with our underserved communities, better access to services, and digital enablement. I have already taken action to introduce a time-limited meningitis B vaccination programme ahead of the winter peak, and an expansion to the respiratory syncytial virus programme to include those aged 65 to 74 who are immunosuppressed or with chronic respiratory disease. Both these actions will help reduce those affected by serious disease this winter. This national focus on prevention will be informed by and support local action, working with local government and the community and third sector. I'll be building on the work of Marmot places under the Health Equity Wales initiative that builds on learning from Torfaen and Blaenau Gwent in taking a more preventative approach with communities to the delivery of services and tackling inequalities. The importance of having a healthier, more resilient population is also clear in the context of the increasing frequency and severity of public health risks. The impacts of climate change on the health of the population have come to the fore with the recent extreme heat, but other linked risks include antimicrobial resistance, environmental hazards, and outbreaks of communicable diseases. A fundamental priority of any Government is to protect its population. This will include work to plan, prepare, and respond to existing and emerging public health risks, working with colleagues and partners to embed a one-health approach across human health, animal health and the environment, and looking internationally to share and learn best practice.  16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767825 374 En 2026-07-14T17:35:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=14702&l=en 260714-7 6. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Public and Preventative Health: Priorities for Public and Preventative Health C 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767835 375 Cy 2026-07-14T17:37:46 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=14868&l=en 260714-7 6. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Public and Preventative Health: Priorities for Public and Preventative Health C 261 261 Nerys Evans https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=261 Evans, Nerys Llywydd, we firmly believe that building a healthier population is not only a moral imperative, particularly in tackling deep-rooted inequalities, but is also fundamental to improving the wider prosperity and resilience of our nation. That is why we are embedding this principle across the Government, that every part of Government, not just those with health within their portfolio, have a shared responsibility to support this ambition. I look forward to updating Members on the progress we are making when we return in the autumn. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767836 376 En 2026-07-14T17:38:24 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=14906&l=en 260714-7 6. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Public and Preventative Health: Priorities for Public and Preventative Health C 8585 8585 James Evans https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=8585 Evans, James I'd like to welcome the Minister to her post. I'll stop the pleasantries here because people are watching the clock and we'll be here all night. So, anyway, I'll move on to your statement, Minister. It says here that you've had bilaterals with Cabinet Ministers and Deputy Ministers across Government. That's lovely, but I'd like to know what the next steps of those are going to be, really, because if we don't know what's coming out of it, they're just lovely meetings to have, aren't they? You said here as well that you've talked to the First Minister and that Government decision making will be informed by a shared focus on public health. Well, I think we can all agree with that, but what does that look like in practice? We've heard these things before, and it would be quite good if we could get some understanding today as to what actually that looks like. You did say that officials and ministerial and cross-governance and arrangements are all being established. Fantastic, but what does this mean? How much is this going to cost the Welsh civil service, in terms of having all these cross-ministerial portfolios? Is this more civil servants to do this? Is this going to be managed within the current health portfolio? You also mentioned, further down in your statement, about creating a new budget line within the Government's overall budget-setting process. Is there a risk with that, even though I'm not against it in principle, that we could end up with a bit of silo working here? That, actually, other departments are all chipping in, trying to look for this pot of money, while, actually, if it sat directly within the departments, it would be easier to spend. If the cross-governmental work was focused on prevention, you maybe wouldn't need a budget line there. I'm sure the Finance Committee would be quite pleased if it wasn't there, as it's something else to look at. You also talked about weight-loss medication. This is something I've been quite involved in, actually. I haven't taken it personally. But I think one thing we have to be careful with, with weight-loss medication, is that, yes, it is changing lives, but it's not changing lifestyles. It cannot be seen as a silver bullet to losing weight long term, because we do know about the longer term health impacts, with osteoporosis in women, with people with cardiovascular problems emerging from these jabs, so I'd just like to know—. There needs to be a way for people to get off the treadmill, as such, of taking these jabs. So, I'd like to know what work you're doing with primary care to understand how you can work with local gyms, leisure facilities, so that when people are accessing weight-loss medication, their lifestyle is changing along with their life, because if you don't, it's just a vicious circle: you'll come off it, you'll put weight back on again, and you're back on the jabs and then end up in A&E with longer term problems, and that's no way to help our health service. You did talk about working quite closely with the wider portfolio across health. I'd be interested to know how much money you're intending to move into the prevention agenda. I know the Cabinet Minister for sport is here as well, and the Government talked an awful lot during the election period about moving money into that portfolio. So, it would be quite good today to get some figures on how much of that prevention agenda is going to be delivered there and what proportion of that is the budget. I think that's really important. You also mentioned working with the Cabinet Minister for Rural Resilience and Sustainability. I think it's very important. We talk about healthy food; I'm a big advocate of that. I know there were Members in the Conservative Party who brought forward a food Bill, which was supported across the Chamber, which is really important. But I think we need to make sure we've got good-quality food in schools. We've all seen the scandal with Thai chicken in our schools. That's not the sort of food we want to be putting into our kids. So, the prevention agenda is moving money into the schools' budget, so you can make sure that they can afford those good things in schools, and not imported food from across the world. What else here? Lung screening. You talked about a lung screening programme. Well, we had the pilot in the previous Senedd. That was a good success story that came out of it. I'm pleased you're rolling that out further and going to develop that. The one thing that was raised at the time was chronic obstructive pulmonary disease screening. If we don't embed COPD screening as part of that lung cancer screening process, you're literally having another test for something else. So, sometimes, it's cheaper to do it all at the same time. Yes, you might be double-diagnosing somebody, but if someone's got lung cancer, you can almost, at the same time, say they've got COPD, or they're developing it, or they have COPD and do not have cancer. So, to get it done first time is the right approach, rather than having numerous different tests for people. Treat it once and get it done with. Then you also talked about substance misuse. I know the Deputy Minister for mental health is also sat to your side. To deal with substance abuse—I think we have to look as well—you have to treat the individual, not the offence, as such. And if you are going to move to try and address this problem, mental health support has to be there. I know when Lynne Neagle, for example, was the Minister for mental health, she actually laboured on this quite a lot: that if you do not put the mental health support in place to support people on their substance misuse journey, whether that's drugs or alcohol, you're just going to have the revolving door of people getting clean and then coming back in again, because you've not dealt with the trauma that's led people there in the first place. And in the interests of time, Deputy Presiding Officer, I think I've taken my five minutes, even though I said I was going to be quite brief. So, if you could answer some of those questions, Deputy Minister, I'd be very much obliged. Diolch.  16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767903 377 En 2026-07-14T17:40:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=15002&l=en 260714-7 6. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Public and Preventative Health: Priorities for Public and Preventative Health C 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767907 378 En 2026-07-14T17:43:17 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=15199&l=en 260714-7 6. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Public and Preventative Health: Priorities for Public and Preventative Health C 261 261 Nerys Evans https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=261 Evans, Nerys Thank you. You could have had another 10 seconds of pleasantries at the—  16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767908 379 En 2026-07-14T17:43:20 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=15202&l=en 260714-7 6. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Public and Preventative Health: Priorities for Public and Preventative Health C 8585 8585 James Evans https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=8585 Evans, James Oh, no, we wouldn't want that. I'd have taken 10 minutes then. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767911 380 En 2026-07-14T17:43:23 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=15205&l=en 260714-7 6. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Public and Preventative Health: Priorities for Public and Preventative Health C 261 261 Nerys Evans https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=261 Evans, Nerys Thanks for the contribution and for the welcome into the role. In terms of the bilaterals and the shared Government understanding, I think this is the first time we've ever had this discussion across Government level. I think there have been lots of pockets of good practice over a number of years, but nothing embedded, nothing strategic, no discussion about the impact of spend on the population of Wales in other portfolio areas. So, the bilaterals have been really good to kick that process off in terms of just seeing where we can work together. For example, you mentioned food and a discussion with the Cabinet Minister for rural resilience. That's not just a bilateral between myself and that Cabinet Minister; we're talking about education, we're talking about our planning system, we're talking about the economy and supporting our food businesses. So, that's what this approach is absolutely about, to make sure we don't miss those opportunities. And if we look at the approach to food during the last Government, it was quite narrowly focused, and this is absolutely building on the work that you mentioned by your previous colleague on the food Bill, to make sure that it is a whole-system approach. I absolutely agree with you in terms of the quality of food in schools, but also teaching our young people about food skills and making sure that we understand where our food comes from, supporting our brilliant agricultural industry, and looking at our procurement rules. So, this is not just something for food; this is absolutely health prevention, looking at the economy. So, those bilaterals have kicked off that discussion while we work out how we make sure that these are embedded discussions early on in every policy development—that we look at preventing ill health and reducing the health inequality that we've got and making sure it's a cross-Government approach. And that's my role—to make sure that we don't miss those opportunities while we work out the mechanics, and that that is replicated on the official level as well. These conversations, potentially, have never happened before in these policy areas, so it's making sure that that's embedded so that it's systematic and strategic that we really do look at health inequality and look at preventative health measures.  In terms of the budgets and the costs, you raise some interesting points there in terms of how that will be developed. You're right in terms of a new budget line. I think the first step that we're grappling with now is the definition of 'prevention', especially if we are committed to increased spend on prevention over this Senedd term. How do we define that is really important—how do we define current activity within health and social care, but also in the other portfolio areas as we move to shift resources towards prevention. Getting that definition of prevention is absolutely key. There are different mechanisms then of identifying that spend. The Scottish Government are currently looking at how you tag some spend as prevention—so, not necessarily creating a budget line but tagging it as 'preventative' and those definitions within preventative spend. We are exploring those options, with the key fundamental principle that transparency is key. Without us knowing what we're spending, how we're spending it, and, ultimately, what the outcomes of that spend are in terms of population health, it's not as impactful as it should be, and that's why I'm in this role.  In terms of the weight loss medication, absolutely—it's creating that system of support around individuals for those lifestyle choices. They are right in some instances: preparing people for treatment in the NHS, for example, or certain body mass indexes. But making sure we've got that whole-system approach around the individual, to make sure there's a sustained improvement, is really important, and we're keeping that under review. Public Health Wales have been successful recently in co-ordinating a Wales-wide bid for funding through the obesity pathway innovation programme. That's £8 million of funding in order to look at these issues, to develop and test approaches that could form part of that delivery model going forward. We want to be looking at treating obesity as a chronic condition, and, obviously, the changes that would mean in terms of how the NHS would respond to that would be key.  I've mentioned the food issue. On substance misuse, absolutely. I'm pleased to hear your approach in terms of the person-centred approach—not just dealing with the substance misuse issue, but, absolutely, mental health and making sure that all the services around that individual are there. Following on from the last Government's harm reduction method, we will absolutely be taking that forward and working closely with the Deputy Minister for mental health. If I've missed anything, as I know time is tight—[Interruption.] I'll come back to you on the COPD screening specifically. Thank you. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767917 381 En 2026-07-14T17:45:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=15302&l=en 260714-7 6. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Public and Preventative Health: Priorities for Public and Preventative Health C 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767924 382 En 2026-07-14T17:48:03 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=15485&l=en 260714-7 6. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Public and Preventative Health: Priorities for Public and Preventative Health C 5038 5038 Jayne Bryant https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=5038 Bryant, Jayne Thank you to the Deputy Minister for her statement today. As Welsh Labour's spokesperson, I welcome the cross-Government approach to preventative health, but I'm interested in what outcomes will be delivered for people across Wales. You've mentioned today the designated preventative departmental expenditure line within the Welsh budget for 2027-28, but I'm sure you'd agree, Minister, that it isn't just the creation of the budget line itself that we should be focused on, but rather how people's overall health and well-being will improve. I, like many others, challenge the Government to go beyond the process. We want to know what exactly will change and how success will be measured during this Senedd term. I'm glad the Deputy Minister mentioned two very effective interventions: screening and vaccinations. It's good to hear the Deputy Minister supports the continuation of the national lung cancer screening programme, which was introduced by the Welsh Labour Government. I'm surprised there's no mention today of the HPV vaccine. Since it was introduced in 2008, the HPV vaccine has reduced cervical cancer rates by almost 90 per cent in women in their 20s, and that has saved hundreds of lives every year across the UK. So, I'd like to know how the Government will engage with schools across Wales to encourage participation in vaccination programmes like this. Cervical screening also saves lives, and there's work to be done to make that more accessible. So, I'd like to see the Government learn from areas where there have been increases in screening uptake. You did give one example of screening uptake best practice, but I think there have been some other ones, particularly in London, where GPs have adapted to offer appointments for their clinics that fit in with people's work and family lives, such as on weekends and late evenings. So, I'd be interested to hear if you've been able to look into that. Encouragement to help break down stigma is also key to increasing screening uptake. So, I'd like to know how Public Health Wales is focusing screening delivery that is tailored to local communities, for instance consistent breast screening opportunities in each geographical area throughout the year to support local health board demand. There's also work to be done engaging with businesses and organisations to support their workforce to attend all screening as a priority. Targeted communications and education is important, breaking down stigma for everyone, but specifically for those attending their first screening appointment. We all know the way people access information is changing, and I'd like to know how national screening programmes are adapting to fit into those communication methods to reflect this. Inclusion health is a globally recognised approach to address and prevent the health inequalities facing marginalised groups who struggle to access health services and experience far poorer health outcomes. We know that there's a huge human cost to these inequalities, as well as a cost to public services such as blue light services, A&E and emergency inpatient treatment. A stark example is people experiencing homelessness who experience acute physical and mental health problems and die 30 years younger than the general population. There are some fantastic examples of inclusion health work led by Public Health Wales and services such as Cardiff and Vale inclusion service, and the partnership work between Ysbyty Gwynedd and Cyngor Sir Ynys Môn. However, this is often reliant on passionate individuals going above and beyond the remit of their roles, rather than inclusion health being prioritised, systematic and integrated with health services. Prioritising inclusion health is key to preventative health, as well as delivering significant savings to emergency health services. So, will you commit to making inclusion health one of your ministerial priorities, and consider developing an inclusion health strategy? Finally, we know that sport helps to tackle obesity and to prevent physical and mental health conditions. Professional and grass-roots sport clubs play a leading role, and their impact is far-reaching. They are trusted places at the heart of our communities. I'd also recommend to you the Fit Fans programme, which works across our football league clubs. In Plaid Cymru's manifesto, you said you would invest in sports and physical activity as part of the preventative health agenda, and you've mentioned today your discussions with the Minister for culture and sport. However, any new work stream does need funding. The health minister couldn't give an answer when I previously asked how much that investment will be and where the money will come from. So, can you, Deputy Minister, today tell us that? Diolch. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767846 383 En 2026-07-14T17:50:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=15602&l=en 260714-7 6. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Public and Preventative Health: Priorities for Public and Preventative Health C 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767847 384 En 2026-07-14T17:53:20 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=15802&l=en 260714-7 6. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Public and Preventative Health: Priorities for Public and Preventative Health C 261 261 Nerys Evans https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=261 Evans, Nerys Diolch. Thanks for those questions. In terms of the outcomes, we're going to be working on a public health strategy that brings all of this together in terms of what we're trying to achieve across portfolios, and looking at those objectives and those outcomes in the short, medium and longer term. As you mentioned, in terms of the budget, the budget increases transparency on what's actually happening. We don't have that now. Over the last 27 years, we don't know what's been spent on prevention. We don't know the impact. It has not being embedded. So, ensuring that we have transparency in terms of what we're spending does drive activity in terms of being transparent and putting those outcome measures in place to make sure that we are really clear what the expectation is in terms of public and preventative health. In terms of the HPV vaccine, absolutely, and there will be a statement by the Cabinet Minister on the cancer strategy this week, which will include details on that. You're right in terms of working with education, and we've been discussing with the Cabinet Minister for education how we can improve those messages to schools. Schools are under pressure with lots of demands on their time, but making sure that they understand their role in promoting vaccine uptake in schools is really important, and something that we are working on. One of the things that worries me is the differences within our deprived communities in terms of screening and vaccine uptake. The work you mentioned there on inclusion health is really important. There hasn't been a systematic look at this up until now. So, we really need to be making sure that the work that Public Health Wales are doing on screening and vaccinations really understands at that community level what the barriers are for uptake in terms of screening and vaccination. Because we know the benefits of making sure that people undertake screening and vaccination when they're meant to be part of that.  So, there is definitely good work happening, especially on the stigma side as well, but we do need to do more. We do need to better understand it, and we do need to better make sure that the good work that's happening now is better understood across the health service as well.  16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767848 385 En 2026-07-14T17:55:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=15902&l=en 260714-7 6. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Public and Preventative Health: Priorities for Public and Preventative Health C 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767850 386 En 2026-07-14T17:55:29 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=15931&l=en 260714-7 6. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Public and Preventative Health: Priorities for Public and Preventative Health C 336 336 Natasha Asghar https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=336 Asghar, Natasha Can I also thank the Deputy Minister for bringing this statement here to the Chamber today? We've seen a lot of proposals flying around the Chamber when it comes to health and social care over the past few months, outlining summits and following clinically led decisions, but less about when and how these proposals are going to be actioned. Take, for example, the shift towards primary care and prevention. It's great that the Government is proposing an extra 100 GPs, but when GP practices are saying they do not have the physical space to be able to train up new GPs, we have a problem. We also know the scale of the challenges that Wales is facing, from one in three adults living with obesity, which costs Wales £5.2 billion in health spending and lost productivity, to nearly 4,000 preventable deaths each year because of smoking. I know the Deputy Minister has already launched a consultation on vaping as part of the four-nation approach to prevent children and young people from starting to smoke or vape, so I'd like to know what other actions you're going to be taking on both of these issues and when we are likely to be seeing delivery. Also, are you considering the work and recommendations of the previous Health and Social Care Committee's inquiry in relation to obesity? I welcome that you are focusing on activity as part of weight loss and prevention, but sometimes green spaces and safe walking routes are inaccessible to communities across all of our constituencies. According to the Ramblers Association, councils in my constituency spend an average of just 44p per resident on maintaining public paths. Therefore, will the Deputy Minister commit to continuing the access improvement grant so that more communities get the benefit of walking regularly and safely? Deputy Presiding Officer, I see that there will be a food strategy for Wales. My colleague Peter Fox—I know his name has been mentioned quite a few times—was strident in his work regarding the food Bill in the last Senedd, which focused on sustainable and secure food sources and increasing the proportion of Welsh food and drink served in hospitals and schools across Wales. Sadly, this was voted down by Labour and Plaid in the last Senedd term. So, Deputy Minister, will you make a commitment to revisit my colleague's proposals as part of your food strategy now? Deputy Presiding Officer, I believe that prevention is better than cure, and I know many of us say it enough here in the Chamber, but we should also be looking at what we can learn from the past. It's now over six years since COVID-19 hit Wales, and we still are none the wiser as to how well or badly our health and social care system coped, and vitally, how we prevent another virus from nearly collapsing Wales. The fallout from COVID is also clear when it comes to those who suffer from long COVID, as well as the health of those who have had misdiagnoses due to lengthy shutdowns of routine exams. As the Deputy Minister will be aware, both Plaid Cymru and the Welsh Conservatives supported calls for a Wales-only COVID inquiry. Now that you're in government, will the Deputy Minister be initiating a Wales-only inquiry as well? Additionally, I see the mention of building on the Marmot initiative, but I note from the findings that although it provides a successful framework, it's failing to rapidly change lives because councils don't have sweeping macroeconomic powers or huge cash reserves to apply it. So, Deputy Minister, are you committing to more powers to local authorities and further cash to apply Marmot across Wales? Finally, Deputy Presiding Officer, child oral health is a huge component of prevention and public health, and I don't see any specific mention of this in your statement today. Because we are seeing one in four children aged five being affected by tooth decay, rising to one in three in the most deprived areas across Wales. Therefore, Deputy Minister, will you be making a commitment on record to embedding oral health in nursery and school settings? I also note that the dental contract has a massive impact on child oral health. So, Deputy Minister, how are you going to be working with the Cabinet Minister to change the dental health contract and provide a better deal for both dentists and NHS patients here in Wales? Thank you. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767864 387 En 2026-07-14T17:59:05 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=16147&l=en 260714-7 6. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Public and Preventative Health: Priorities for Public and Preventative Health C 261 261 Nerys Evans https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=261 Evans, Nerys Thank you. On the first point there, in terms of tobacco and vaping, you've referenced the consultation that we launched last week. I mentioned that a key priority is making sure that we tackle the increasing number of children and young people who are vaping. Vaping is seen as a cessation tool for adults who smoke, it was never intended—. These are unintended consequences with dire impacts. Talking to parents and teachers, they really want us to step up and support tackling this issue. So, I'd urge people to respond to the consultation, which looked at changing the packaging of vaping products, making them plain packaging, similar to tobacco, removing the ability of companies to call them flavours that would be attractive to young people, and also the design of them, making them less appealing to young people, and also restricting where they're sold in shops so that they're under the counter. That's the first step, and I've asked officials to give us an outline of the other powers that we have in order to tackle tobacco and vaping, and making sure that we really do tackle these issues. On obesity and green spaces, absolutely, I think social prescribing, where it happens, is fantastic, and it's making sure that we embed that, share the best practice and make sure that people understand the benefits of linking to their local communities, not just in terms of green spaces, but physical activity and community groups, making sure that that is seen as a central part of the prescribing tool that our GPs have. On the food strategy, we are working at pace on this and we will be sharing information on it. It is going to be comprehensive, as I mentioned in the answer to James. It's not just looking at food in terms of what we produce, but also looking systematically at healthy food, supporting our rural industries, looking at production, and also, in terms of healthy foods, looking at schools and our young people. I think also, going further than that, I'm keen to look at healthy food environments and making sure that we talk to food producers and manufacturers about what more they can be doing and what more we can be asking them to do in terms of reformulation, product placement, and really looking at retail spaces and out-of-home food outlets to make sure that we are really committed in terms of tackling this, making sure that the healthy choice is the easy choice. We know that we are not eating as much fresh fruit and veg as we should be doing. We know we've got a fantastic agricultural industry, and we should be looking at procurement rules as well, which will be part of that. In terms of COVID, you mentioned our manifesto call. We made a clear manifesto call to establish a Wales-specific review of the COVID response, focused on matters not fully addressed by the UK-wide inquiry. With the report out today, of course, we'll be studying the report's findings and the recommendations in depth and publishing a response to that within six months. Responsibility lies with my Cabinet colleague. And in terms of children's public health, in terms of the demographics, in terms of the outlook for children's public health, this is an absolute area we need to be focusing on, and that's why, as part of the public health strategy, there'll be a specific public health strategy for children that we'll be developing in the months ahead. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767843 388 En 2026-07-14T18:00:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=16202&l=en 260714-7 6. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Public and Preventative Health: Priorities for Public and Preventative Health C 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767842 389 En 2026-07-14T18:02:35 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=16357&l=en 260714-7 6. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Public and Preventative Health: Priorities for Public and Preventative Health C 12189 12189 Safa Elhassan https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12189 Elhassan, Safa Diabetic eye screening is a vital preventative service. In England, OCT, or optical coherence tomography, has been introduced in diabetic eye screening, with an estimated 120,000 hospital eye appointments a year saved, while improving diagnostic accuracy. In Wales, patients are often referred from diabetic eye screening into the hospital eye service, and then, in some cases, into the Wales general ophthalmic service pathway back to the screening service. For patients, that means additional travel, time away from work and caring responsibility. For the NHS, it means administrative appointments and costs. Much of this would be potentially avoided earlier if there is earlier access to simple non-invasive OCT scans during the screening. So, will the Cabinet Secretary work with Diabetic Eye Screening Wales to develop a pathway of introducing OCTs into Diabetic Eye Screening Wales to improve efficiency, reduce unnecessary referrals and help improve avoidable sight loss? 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767844 390 En 2026-07-14T18:03:35 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=16417&l=en 260714-7 6. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Public and Preventative Health: Priorities for Public and Preventative Health C 261 261 Nerys Evans https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=261 Evans, Nerys Diolch. As you will well know—and thank you for your work in this area—everyone aged 12 and over diagnosed with diabetes and registered with a GP in Wales is invited for screening through the Diabetic Eye Screening Wales service. The OCT you mentioned, delivered with the diabetic eye screening programme, may reduce referrals for inadequate images to hospital eye services, which would improve participant experience. However, the introduction of OCT would need a new service delivery model, which would require additional specialist workforce and equipment. Scoping of the introduction of OCT is part of the wider Diabetic Eye Screening Wales transformation plan, which is planned for future years, and would determine the potential benefits of introduction and requirements in relation to resource and funding. So, the focus at the moment is currently on improving the stability of the diabetic eye screening for existing screening pathways. As you will know, Diabetic Eye Screening Wales is delivered in accordance with the recommendations of the UK National Screening Committee, and that committee is currently consulting on the use of digital imaging within the screening programme, and we will consider the advice of the committee when that is received. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767845 391 En 2026-07-14T18:04:46 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=16488&l=en 260714-7 6. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Public and Preventative Health: Priorities for Public and Preventative Health C 8696 8696 Steve Bayliss https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=8696 Bayliss, Steve Nobody in this Chamber disputes that preventing illness is better than treating it. But look at the evidence in my constituency. Swansea bay has been under targeted intervention for cancer since 24 January, and on the latest published figures, its bowel screening uptake is the lowest in Wales, at around 57 per cent in the most deprived communities, compared with around 72 per cent in the least deprived. Prevention is falling short precisely where it is needed most. Analysis by the future generations commissioner also found that less than 10 per cent of the previous Welsh Government's budget was directed towards evidence-based primary prevention. Warm words about prevention have never been in short supply in this Chamber; budgets and screening programmes have. So, Deputy Minister, will your Government do better? When will eligible people across Wales begin receiving invitations for the national lung cancer screening programme? And, will the first budget increase the proportion spent on evidence-based primary prevention? Thank you. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767849 392 En 2026-07-14T18:05:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=16502&l=en 260714-7 6. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Public and Preventative Health: Priorities for Public and Preventative Health C 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767853 393 En 2026-07-14T18:06:05 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=16567&l=en 260714-7 6. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Public and Preventative Health: Priorities for Public and Preventative Health C 261 261 Nerys Evans https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=261 Evans, Nerys Thank you. You're right to point out the cancer inequalities. I think that's one of the clearest examples of the wider health inequalities that we face in Wales, especially in some of the communities in south Wales. Evidence shows that people living in more deprived communities are more likely to develop cancer, more likely to die from cancer, and less likely to survive cancer than those living in the least deprived communities. So, it's an absolute imperative that we tackle that issue, and tackle the issue you mentioned there in terms of screening as well. These inequalities are driven by many of the same factors that underpin health inequalities, including poverty, smoking, obesity, housing, employment and access to services. That's why this is a cross-governmental approach, and that's why this Government is taking a very, very different approach to previous Governments by having a designated Minister with responsibility for looking at these issues across Government. The Cabinet Minister for health will be setting out a statement on the plans for cancer this week, with the aim of developing a cancer plan, as we set out ahead of the election. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767855 394 En 2026-07-14T18:07:15 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=16637&l=en 260714-7 6. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Public and Preventative Health: Priorities for Public and Preventative Health C 8579 8579 Peredur Owen Griffiths https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=8579 Griffiths, Peredur Owen Prevention must be central to turning around the NHS and improving services for staff and patients, and I welcome your statement today. This issue arose repeatedly in the cross-party group on substance use and addiction, which I chaired in the last Senedd and intend to re-establish in September, working with Kaleidoscope as the secretariat and Members from across this Chamber. If anybody else is interested, please get in touch. The group heard expert, lived-experience evidence on harm reduction, including wider access to naloxone, the international impact of safer consumption facilities, and the urgent need to educate people, particularly young people, about ketamine. Although Westminster's outdated drugs legislation limits what Wales can do, would the Deputy Minister explore further harm-reduction measures within her remit? In particular, will the Government consider a national ketamine awareness campaign to challenge myths about its perceived safety and explain the serious risks of frequent use, including bladder and kidney damage, pressure on GPs and urology services, and the potential life-changing harm developed over a relatively short period for users? Diolch. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767856 395 Cy 2026-07-14T18:08:28 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=16710&l=en 260714-7 6. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Public and Preventative Health: Priorities for Public and Preventative Health C 261 261 Nerys Evans https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=261 Evans, Nerys Thank you very much. There are serious concerns about the use of ketamine and the increase in the use of ketamine, of course, particularly among young people, and the harm that that can cause. Thank you for your work during the last Senedd in this area. I look forward to engaging with you in the cross-party group when it is established. I'd be more than happy to do that. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767858 396 En 2026-07-14T18:08:52 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=16734&l=en 260714-7 6. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Public and Preventative Health: Priorities for Public and Preventative Health C 261 261 Nerys Evans https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=261 Evans, Nerys Across Wales, the area planning boards have developed a range of information about ketamine, mainly focused on awareness raising, harm reduction, reducing risks and ensuring information is being disseminated widely. Areas are also adapting services to address these issues and these developing needs, with treatment pathways specifically for those using ketamine, with some areas implementing joint assessments for those using the drug. This allows access to clinical support and consultation from the substance misuse service, and quicker access to GP support and community mental health referral teams where appropriate. Given the concerns, and the rise of the concerns, on the use of ketamine in our communities, we've established a ketamine working group with key stakeholders and clinical leads to take this work forward. The aim of the group is to share best practice and to inform a co-ordinated approach across Wales. This includes informing treatment pathways and prevention, but also how we raise awareness of the harms, building on the local work already being led by the boards. The first meeting of the working group took place on 13 July. I'd like to reiterate I'm more than happy to work with the cross-party group to share information about that working group and how we can work together to raise awareness of this really important issue and the harms associated with it. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767866 397 En 2026-07-14T18:10:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=16802&l=en 260714-7 6. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Public and Preventative Health: Priorities for Public and Preventative Health C 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767872 398 En 2026-07-14T18:10:11 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=16813&l=en 260714-7 6. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Public and Preventative Health: Priorities for Public and Preventative Health C 12180 12180 Paul Marr https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12180 Marr, Paul Thank you, Deputy Minister, for your statement, and welcome to your role. Minister, everyone agrees that prevention is better than cure, but prevention only works if people can actually access the services they need. In west rural Wales, too many residents face long journeys, limited appointment availability and growing difficulty accessing GPs, community healthcare and screening programmes. Reform UK believes that public money should be focused on delivering effective front-line services, not expanding bureaucracy. Rural communities contribute just as much to the public purse as anyone else and deserve the same standard of healthcare. If we are serious about preventative health, we need practical action that improves access, shortens waiting times and ensures services reach people where they live, rather than expecting patients to travel even greater distances. Deputy Minister, what specific changes will the Welsh Government make to improve access to preventative healthcare in west rural Wales? And can you guarantee that future investment will be directed towards strengthening front-line services in rural communities, rather than increasing administration costs? Diolch. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767878 399 En 2026-07-14T18:11:16 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=16878&l=en 260714-7 6. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Public and Preventative Health: Priorities for Public and Preventative Health C 261 261 Nerys Evans https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=261 Evans, Nerys Well, I'm glad you agree with the priority that we've put on tackling waiting lists and the investment that we've set out in the supplementary budget in order to do that. I hope, indeed, that Members would reflect on what voting against that supplementary budget would mean in terms of the investment that we need in our NHS and across other preventative health measures. There's investment in the supplementary budget on the swimming initiative for schools as well. So, voting against the supplementary budget this afternoon does have serious consequences in terms of the ability of our NHS to respond to the demands it's facing now and the backlog that we have inherited from the previous Government, which absolutely impacts on the issues that you mentioned about the provision of health services in our rural communities. I am also from rural west Wales and know the challenges. As the First Minister set out earlier this afternoon, our ambition is to make sure that we look at rural-proofing, to make sure that the cost of delivery of services really does adequately reflect the actual costs in terms of what's being funded, and that is a key central part. But I'd urge Members across this Chamber to make sure that they support the supplementary budget, to make sure of exactly what you mentioned, in terms of tackling the waiting lists and making sure our health and social care system is on a sustainable footing. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767881 400 Cy 2026-07-14T18:12:34 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=16956&l=en 260714-7 6. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Public and Preventative Health: Priorities for Public and Preventative Health C 12177 12177 Kerry Ferguson https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12177 Deputy Presiding Officer Ferguson, Kerry And finally, Deputy Minister, Gwyn Williams.  16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767883 401 Cy 2026-07-14T18:12:37 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=16959&l=en 260714-7 6. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Public and Preventative Health: Priorities for Public and Preventative Health C 5083 5083 Gwyn Williams https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=5083 Williams, Gwyn Thank you very much, Dirprwy Lywydd. Gaining access to dental care is vital to prevent dental and health problems more generally in the future, and I welcome our commitment to review the NHS dental contract to resolve vital issues affecting the profession in Wales and the experience of our patients. We met with leaders in the field of dentistry in Wales last week to listen to their concerns, and reviewing the contract, as set out in our manifesto, is one of their main priorities. I'd like to pay tribute to Mike Hedges from the Labour Party, because he was in the meeting as well. Will the Deputy Minister commit to undertaking this task as soon as possible, as well as contacting leaders in the field of dentistry in Wales to seek short-term solutions to stabilise dental services in the meantime? Thank you.  16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767884 402 En 2026-07-14T18:13:28 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=17010&l=en 260714-7 6. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Public and Preventative Health: Priorities for Public and Preventative Health C 261 261 Nerys Evans https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=261 Evans, Nerys Diolch. The NHS dental contract arrangements that came into force on 1 April this year represent the most significant changes to NHS dentistry in two decades. Health needs and prevention are at the heart of the new system, creating an opportunity to improve access to care and to ensure resources are targeted towards those with the greatest need. We are, as you would expect, keeping the new contract under continual review to assess its impact on patients, practitioners and access to services, but we do need to give it some time to bed in. As evidence emerges, we will work with stakeholders to identify where further refinements may be required to ensure that the system is delivering the intended improvements and remains an attractive place to provide NHS dental care. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767886 403 Cy 2026-07-14T18:14:13 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=17055&l=en 260714-7 6. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Public and Preventative Health: Priorities for Public and Preventative Health C 12177 12177 Kerry Ferguson https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12177 Deputy Presiding Officer Ferguson, Kerry Thank you, Deputy Minister. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767887 404 Cy 2026-07-14T18:14:16 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=17058&l=en 260714-8 7. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Skills and Tertiary Education: Priorities for Skills and Tertiary Education C 12177 12177 Kerry Ferguson https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12177 Deputy Presiding Officer Ferguson, Kerry Moving on now to item 7, a statement by the Deputy Minister for Skills and Tertiary Education: priorities for skills and tertiary education. I call on the Deputy Minister for Skills and Tertiary Education, Cefin Campbell.  16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767893 405 Cy 2026-07-14T18:14:33 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=17075&l=en 260714-8 7. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Skills and Tertiary Education: Priorities for Skills and Tertiary Education C 8643 8643 Cefin Campbell https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=8643 Deputy Minister for Skills and Tertiary Education Campbell, Cefin Thank you very much, Dirprwy Lywydd, and good afternoon, everyone. Today, I will be setting out this Government's priorities for skills and tertiary education. Our tertiary education sector supports young people taking their first steps after compulsory education, adults returning to learning, workers seeking to upskill or re-skill, and communities seeking confidence, resilience and social prosperity. The sector also supports our economy by developing the knowledge, skills and research capacity that Wales needs to support our businesses and industry, and to build, also, for the future.  I am committed to working closely with the Cabinet Minister for Education and the Welsh Language to deliver a shared vision of one education and skills system for Wales, with Welsh-medium provision at the core of this vision. And I have seen first-hand, through my experience of teaching adults at Welsh universities, the impact the tertiary sector can have on people’s lives. I want learners to progress through the system with confidence, with clear, visible and Welsh-medium development pathways. Academic, vocational and work-based routes should be understood as complementary parts of each learner’s journey, aligned with the needs of Wales today and the ambitions we have for tomorrow. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767837 406 Cy 2026-07-14T18:15:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=17102&l=en 260714-8 7. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Skills and Tertiary Education: Priorities for Skills and Tertiary Education C 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767838 407 En 2026-07-14T18:16:28 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=17190&l=en 260714-8 7. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Skills and Tertiary Education: Priorities for Skills and Tertiary Education C 8643 8643 Cefin Campbell https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=8643 Campbell, Cefin Our future economic success depends on developing a highly skilled workforce. I will work closely with the Cabinet Minister for Enterprise, Connectivity and Energy to ensure that the skills system supports our wider economic ambitions. A comprehensive national skills audit is currently under way. It will bring together evidence, analyse available data and gather views from employers, industry representatives, providers and other stakeholders. Its purpose is to provide a clear, cross-Government view of current and future workforce needs across Wales, including where shortages exist, where demand is likely to grow, and how the system can respond for learners, employers and the economy. The findings will help us target investment more effectively and align education, employment and training pathways with Wales’s priorities. Early findings will inform the future skills summit this autumn, bringing together business, the tertiary sector, training providers and other stakeholders to develop a shared vision and strategic direction for the future skills system and its funding. We will take an employer-led approach to identifying skills needs and we'll work together with business and industry to co-design solutions that meet key sector needs. Our manifesto also commits to developing a national strategy for skills and vocational education. This will draw on evidence from the skills summit and the skills audit, supporting learners in a changing labour market, strengthening economic growth and promoting genuine parity between vocational and academic pathways. It will also build on the priorities set out in the strategic direction for vocational education and training. On higher education, we are aware of the challenges that universities face, including rising costs and constrained income. That is why one of our first 100-day commitments is to take forward a review of higher education funding, and we will publish the terms of reference for that review in the summer. I am grateful for the responses to the recent call for submissions on the future of tertiary education in Wales. These views are informing our thinking. I will publish a summary report of those responses, followed by a fuller report in the autumn, to support transparent, evidence-led policy development.  I am also examining options for reforming Seren, so that it has a stronger focus on addressing participation gaps, on supporting learners from Wales’s most disadvantaged communities and strengthening pathways so that learners can reach their full potential. I will issue a written statement in due course setting out our next steps. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767914 408 En 2026-07-14T18:20:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=17402&l=en 260714-8 7. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Skills and Tertiary Education: Priorities for Skills and Tertiary Education C 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767915 409 Cy 2026-07-14T18:20:13 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=17415&l=en 260714-8 7. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Skills and Tertiary Education: Priorities for Skills and Tertiary Education C 8643 8643 Cefin Campbell https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=8643 Campbell, Cefin Wales has always been an outward-looking nation, and we are determined to maximise opportunities for young people in Wales to live, study and work in Europe. We are working closely with the UK Government to ensure that the benefits of rejoining Erasmus are realised, and we are considering future options for Taith. I want to emphasise the importance of Welsh-medium and bilingual provision across the tertiary system. Learners should have the opportunity to develop, maintain and use their Welsh language skills at every stage. We work, of course, with Medr, the Coleg Cymraeg Cenedlaethol, providers and employers to expand Welsh-medium and bilingual apprenticeship provision, to strengthen career pathways and increase bilingual delivery and to build capacity as well so that more young people who enter the workplace are able to work bilingually and provide key services through the medium of Welsh. There is more to do, but the direction is clear: Welsh-medium and bilingual provision must be built into the future of tertiary education and skills, not treated as an add-on. Medr will consult on a national plan for the Welsh language in the autumn, and I look forward to engaging with Medr and the sector as we work towards our Welsh language goals. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767918 410 En 2026-07-14T18:22:10 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=17532&l=en 260714-8 7. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Skills and Tertiary Education: Priorities for Skills and Tertiary Education C 8643 8643 Cefin Campbell https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=8643 Campbell, Cefin I recognise the vital role that FE colleges and school sixth forms play in transforming learners’ lives and supporting our economy. I am aware of the pressures they face. I've already met stakeholders and will continue to work with the sector to address these challenges. One of my core aims is to encourage collaboration between schools and colleges to provide as broad a range of options for young people as possible. Medr are looking now at funding principles to encourage greater collaboration between schools and colleges in that particular post-16 sector. Colleges also play an important role in supporting learners with additional learning needs to develop the skills, confidence and independence they need to thrive as individuals. Over the coming months, I will work with stakeholders to ensure all learners are supported to achieve their goals. My message to the sector is this: I want to work with you, listen and engage openly and build a shared understanding of the challenges and a shared commitment to solutions. I would expect collaboration, accountability and a focus on learners. In return, I will seek to provide clarity, honesty and a willingness to work across Government. Our ambition should be a tertiary education and skills system that is accessible, coherent and excellent; one that supports people throughout their lives and contributes to economic prosperity and social cohesion. That is the work I am committed to taking forward. I look forward to working with Members, ministerial colleagues, learners and the whole sector to deliver it. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767922 411 Cy 2026-07-14T18:24:28 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=17670&l=en 260714-8 7. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Skills and Tertiary Education: Priorities for Skills and Tertiary Education C 8643 8643 Cefin Campbell https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=8643 Campbell, Cefin In short, Dirprwy Lywydd, in closing, our goal is to build a lifelong tertiary education and skills system that works for learners, communities and the economy, and this will be delivered in collaboration with the sector. Thank you. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767923 412 En 2026-07-14T18:24:53 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=17695&l=en 260714-8 7. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Skills and Tertiary Education: Priorities for Skills and Tertiary Education C 12153 12153 Helen Jenner https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12153 Jenner, Hellen I'd like to thank the Deputy Minister for his statement, and I'd also like to declare an interest, in that I worked in the education sector myself until Easter this year. I don't think anyone in the Siambr would disagree that Wales needs a stronger skills system, and if we're serious about growing our economy, attracting investment and giving young people a reason to build their future here, then skills have to sit right at the heart of that. And there's plenty in your statement that I welcome, particularly about the Welsh language and being able to broaden the use of that in the sector, also a proper look at the skills Wales is going to need in the future is sensible, and, of course, employers should have a much stronger voice in shaping what is taught and where public money is spent. But, Deputy Minister, I couldn't help feeling that this statement contained a great deal about how Government intends to think about these challenges and much less about what is actually going to change. We have a skills audit, we have a future skills summit, we have a national strategy to come, we have reviews, consultations and engagement. My concern is that businesses across Wales don't feel they have the luxury of waiting for another round of policy development; they're trying to recruit today. One thing I was particularly pleased to hear was your commitment to making sure the skills system supports Wales's wider economic ambitions. If that genuinely is the Government's ambition, then surely we need to start preparing now for the opportunities we already know could be on the horizon. Take Wylfa in my constituency, for example. Whether it's new nuclear or small modular reactors, if those projects move forward, they'll require thousands of skilled people—not just engineers, but welders, electricians, project managers, construction workers, technicians and apprentices. Those skills cannot be created overnight. By the time a final investment decision is made, the training pipeline should already be in place. Can the Deputy Minister therefore tell us whether Medr, our further education colleges and apprenticeship providers have already been asked to begin planning for these opportunities? Because if we're waiting until the contracts are signed before we start training people, we're already behind. The same principle applies more broadly: businesses don't just want to be consulted, they want to know the Government is prepared to respond when they identify genuine skills shortages. So, if this audit comes back and tells you what employers have been saying for years, that we don't have enough people coming through into engineering, construction, manufacturing or digital industries, what will the Government actually do differently? How quickly will funding follow the evidence and how will success be measured? Because, Deputy Minister, I don't think employers will judge this work on the number of strategies that are published; they'll judge it on whether it's any easier to recruit the people they need. Young people won't judge it on how many summits have taken place; they'll judge it on whether the qualifications they're studying lead to secure, well-paid jobs here in Wales. And communities like mine in north Wales will judge it on whether major investment creates opportunities for local people or whether those jobs end up being filled from elsewhere because we didn't prepare in time. I genuinely hope this work succeeds, because Wales cannot afford another decade of talking about skills while other parts of the UK get on with delivering them. Now is the time to make sure our education and skills system is preparing people not just for the jobs we have today, but for the industries we want Wales to lead tomorrow. Diolch yn fawr iawn. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767921 413 En 2026-07-14T18:25:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=17702&l=en 260714-8 7. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Skills and Tertiary Education: Priorities for Skills and Tertiary Education C 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767925 414 Cy 2026-07-14T18:28:21 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=17903&l=en 260714-8 7. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Skills and Tertiary Education: Priorities for Skills and Tertiary Education C 8643 8643 Cefin Campbell https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=8643 Campbell, Cefin Thank you very much for the questions. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767926 415 En 2026-07-14T18:28:26 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=17908&l=en 260714-8 7. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Skills and Tertiary Education: Priorities for Skills and Tertiary Education C 8643 8643 Cefin Campbell https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=8643 Campbell, Cefin There are a number of points and they're really valid, and I value the contribution that you've made, and if I can just take them one at a time. When we start in Government, we look at what skills audits have taken place in recent years. The last skills audit took place in 2012. That is 14 years ago, so we don't really know now what the skills needs of Wales are without going out to actually do this exercise and understand what the future needs skills of Wales are. So, that is why we are currently undertaking that skills audit. The main findings of that audit will be made clear in the skills summit that we'll be holding in October. Now, that skills summit will bring together, as I mentioned in the statement, not only FE and training providers, but will also bring together businesses and industry, and I want them to co-design the next steps with us as a Government, because they understand the sector better than us. So, that is an approach that I want to take. Let's understand where the future growth sectors are. And you mentioned Wylfa—absolutely, and I can assure the Member that I've spoken to the chief executive of Coleg Llandrillo Menai, and I can reassure you that they've been looking at the challenges of Wylfa for a number of years and they have a pipeline of young people already on courses to fill those jobs on Ynys Môn. So, that is an example of the kind of approach we want to take. If we look at other potential developments for the future, there's the green energy sector, there's skilled manufacturing, for example. So, all of those we know are the skills for the future we need, but also the audit might show others as well. So, we will tailor our strategy then based on evidence. And I just want to finish just by saying this in terms of that particular aspect of your question: the summit will be focused on implementation, because, when we bring all of those sectors together, they with us will help shape direction and inform the next steps that we need to take. Because I absolutely agree with you, and I work closely with the Minister for enterprise on this, that we want to achieve a growing economy in Wales—higher paid jobs, better productivity levels, higher gross value added levels as well. That is all of our ambition, and skills play a vital role in that. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767910 416 En 2026-07-14T18:30:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=18002&l=en 260714-8 7. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Skills and Tertiary Education: Priorities for Skills and Tertiary Education C 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767912 417 En 2026-07-14T18:32:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=18122&l=en 260714-8 7. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Skills and Tertiary Education: Priorities for Skills and Tertiary Education C 174 174 Lynne Neagle https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=174 Neagle, Lynne Can I welcome my former sparring partner to his post and his first statement in the Chamber and draw Members' attention to my declaration in my register of interests that I'm enrolled on a course at Cardiff and Vale College? Can I thank the Deputy Minister for his statement? I have several questions. The first is on the commitment that you've made to a connected system, which was also stated in the Cabinet Minister's statement as well, and which I very much agree with, that it has to be joined up between schools, FE and HE. What I would like to understand better is where FE fits into those priorities. Now, you've committed today to publishing the responses to the call for evidence on tertiary education, initiated by my colleague Vikki Howells, which was very well received by the sector. Yet the commitment that we've had from you to take work forward relates to the review of funding in HE. So, I'd like to understand how you see FE within your priorities. We know that there are huge participation pressures within FE, and I think it's a success story that we have so many young people and other learners in FE. But, as you know, that has led to funding pressures. So, I'd like to understand what your plans are to tackle those pressures, in particular in relation to the forthcoming budget round in the autumn, because that is going to be key. In relation to the review of HE funding, I hope that we will have more information on that soon, but I wanted to specifically ask about part-time learners, because a third of undergraduates in Wales are learning with the Open University, which I think is a very good thing and is testament to the success of the Diamond reforms in supporting part-time learners. So, I'd like to ask you about your commitment to continue that support for part-time learners. Qualifications—obviously, there have been major changes over the border in terms of post-16 qualifications, some of which will impact on provision in Wales, because things like BTEC are unlikely to be offered to learners in Wales. It's my understanding from discussions with Qualifications Wales that the Government will have to make a decision imminently on whether to further align with England or whether to develop a more made-in-Wales approach to tertiary qualifications. So, I'd like to understand when you plan to make that decision and what the opportunities for scrutiny will be.  I wanted to ask about mental health in tertiary education. There was a commitment made by the previous Government, in response to a Children, Young People and Education Committee recommendation, to roll out the mental health university liaison project that has been developed in south Wales to the rest of the universities in Wales. And we provided an extra £2 million of funding for that. I was meeting Medr monthly to check on progress on that, but it's still, as far as I'm concerned, too slow. So, I would like to know what you're going to do to make sure that that is available to young people in universities across Wales. And I think it's important to recognise that the beauty of that model was that it recognised that young people in universities are away from home, they're away from their GPs, they're away from their communities, and it was a way of holding them and managing risk for them while they're away from home. So, I think that is a vital initiative. But, at the same time, we need an equally good but different offer for further education, and one of the things I raised regularly with Medr is that you can't just do the same for FE students, because they're in their communities, they've got access to their GPs, but they still have to have their needs met. So, I'd be interested to know how you're going to take that forward. Junior apprenticeships I know you're a big fan of—just hoping that you'll be able to assure me that that will continue to be a priority for the Government. And if I can just conclude on the Seren programme, as you know, I'm very passionate about the Seren programme. I think it is crucial that that programme continues to encourage learners to go to whichever university they can best achieve. It is the only programme that we offer for our more able and talented learners, and I'd like to ask for your assurances that whatever work you're doing on Seren will not involve restricting learners to studying in Wales but will, as we have done, encourage them to follow their dreams and their aspirations and to be the very best they can be, wherever that is. Diolch. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767840 418 En 2026-07-14T18:35:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=18302&l=en 260714-8 7. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Skills and Tertiary Education: Priorities for Skills and Tertiary Education C 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767931 419 En 2026-07-14T18:37:33 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=18455&l=en 260714-8 7. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Skills and Tertiary Education: Priorities for Skills and Tertiary Education C 8643 8643 Cefin Campbell https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=8643 Campbell, Cefin Well, diolch, Lynne. There's a lot there, and— 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767933 420 En 2026-07-14T18:37:36 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=18458&l=en 260714-8 7. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Skills and Tertiary Education: Priorities for Skills and Tertiary Education C 174 174 Lynne Neagle https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=174 Neagle, Lynne Sorry. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767935 421 En 2026-07-14T18:37:37 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=18459&l=en 260714-8 7. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Skills and Tertiary Education: Priorities for Skills and Tertiary Education C 8643 8643 Cefin Campbell https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=8643 Campbell, Cefin No, we were sparring partners, but we always got on very well as well because we shared many of the values around education and tertiary education in particular. I'll start off with where you started, about having a connected system—absolutely agree, which is why in my statement I emphasised the need for schools and colleges to work closer together. That also includes training providers in apprenticeships as well. You mentioned the pressures on FE, in particular the participation pressures. Now, on one level it's good to see an increased number of enrolments. The flip side of that, of course, is that we are seeing fewer young people going on to sixth form. We're also seeing those young people leaving school, going into FE colleges, entering at lower level qualifications. Now, that begs another question, and that's for another day, but it is symbolic of something that is going on that we need to address. And I recognise that FE colleges are facing significant increases and, as a result, funding pressures. You will know that Medr has given £6.25 million extra in this financial year to support FE colleges, and you will, of course, know that Medr are monitoring the position closely. And obviously, when enrolments become clearer in September and are confirmed in November, we will consider providing additional funding should it be available as part of our wider consideration of the overall Government budget position. But we fully understand the pressures and I would, obviously, want to support the FE sector in what is a success story in one way. The part-time learners—absolutely agree with you; one of the success stories we've seen in recent years is the increased number of learners of all ages going back into learning, in particular part-time courses, and the Open University have been excellent in the work that they do. So, I will, absolutely, want that to continue. I want now to turn to the matter you raised around the qualifications. So, for those who don't know, the qualifications system, post-16, is changing in England, and it will have consequences for Wales. They are bringing in a V-level and a T-level set of qualifications. And it means that, over the next couple of years, some of the awarding bodies that are familiar to all of us in that post-16 sector will be defunded by UK Government. Now, the obligations of that—they are quite clear—are that we need to prepare for that. And as it happens, the Minister for Education and the Welsh Language and I met with Qualifications Wales this morning, and we had another meeting with them about a month ago. So, they are keeping us abreast of what is happening, and we will be given a set of options in the autumn about the way forward that we, as a Government, will have to consider. So, I will come back with more information around the qualifications space later on. Mental health support—I agree, and I know you've been a great champion in this Senedd for mental health support across the board, but you mentioned higher education where young people are away from home. And I would absolutely support that. Just in passing, the need for mental health support is so acute because the not in education, employment or training numbers since COVID, those who are economically inactive, have gone up from 50 per cent in the 16 to 25 age group to nearly 70 per cent. Now, that shows that mental health issues, anxiety issues, are really a part of the struggle these young people are facing. So, I absolutely support the mental health issue. And just very quickly, junior apprenticeships—I'm a big supporter, as you know. What I want to see now is that the junior apprenticeship scheme is rolled out across Wales to provide that equity of provision in every corner of our country. And finally, Seren, if I can. We are looking at repurposing Seren. You've heard me in this Chamber ask particular questions about the way that the previous Government, in my opinion, used money to actively encourage young people to leave Wales to the elite universities and the Russell Group universities in England. I want to support Welsh universities, and I want to support young people and encourage as many of them to come to Welsh universities, to stay in Wales, to get jobs in Wales, to use the talent that they have to grow our economy and improve public services in Wales. So we will, again in the autumn, come back with more information around Seren, but, absolutely, it won't be chucking the baby out with the bathwater. We want to keep the best parts of Seren because of their experience and they've done a lot of great work, especially for those more able and talented young people. So we want to keep those aspects, but we will be changing the focus, particularly to support young people from disadvantaged communities. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767839 422 En 2026-07-14T18:40:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=18602&l=en 260714-8 7. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Skills and Tertiary Education: Priorities for Skills and Tertiary Education C 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767971 423 En 2026-07-14T18:44:21 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=18863&l=en 260714-8 7. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Skills and Tertiary Education: Priorities for Skills and Tertiary Education C 8734 8734 Sam Rowlands https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=8734 Rowlands, Sam I thank the Deputy Minister for today's statement and the advance notice of it as well. We absolutely agree—skills and tertiary education are central to Wales's future. We want to grow our economy and create opportunities with a skills system that's ambitious, flexible and responsive to employers' and businesses' needs. And while we welcome the focus on understanding future skills requirements and bringing together employers, colleges and universities, Deputy Minister, you will know that businesses are already facing skills shortages and cannot wait for years for action to take place. So, I echo comments made from across the Chamber, because what those businesses need to know is not necessarily what the skills plan is for future years, but what's going to happen now to plug the gaps that they are experiencing. Because, frankly, we've heard strategies and reviews before; employers are desperate for action today. And I can give you a quick example. I recently met with the Electrical Contractors Association, who highlighted to me the shortage of skilled electricians. Back in 2015, there were 13,500 electricians here in Wales; that number is now 7,600, so nearly half the number of electricians in Wales that we had just over 10 years ago. And you will know, Deputy Minister, the need for electrical contract work is going to expand, as that's a huge part of our economy in the future. So, an example there of the number of people in a skilled workforce being nearly halved over a 10-year period. Businesses and employers want to know what you are doing now to make sure those gaps are being plugged. That links specifically, also, to apprenticeships. I've heard your comments on the junior apprenticeships, but I think part of the problem at the moment, and the challenge at the moment, in particular for small businesses, is making the system as simple as possible, removing unnecessary bureaucracy and improving the funding, so that those businesses can access those apprenticeships and support those apprenticeships in the future. We, as Welsh Conservatives, in our manifesto, were keen to see more than 100,000 apprenticeships delivered over this Senedd term. I'm not sure if there's a target coming from Welsh Government at the moment; I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on that. But I guess the question is, Deputy Minister: how will you be looking to make apprenticeships easier to access, more attractive to learners, and ensure that Wales is developing the skilled workforce our economy requires with apprenticeships in mind? We certainly welcome the commitment to increase funding for Welsh-medium education and training, particularly within apprenticeships as well. Those Welsh-medium skills are important across many sectors, but I wonder if you could outline how this commitment will be funded and delivered. You mentioned our universities, of course, higher education, who are facing significant pressures. Representatives from the sector have raised concerns about those financial challenges, job losses and long-term sustainability. We know that more than 1,000 university jobs have been lost across Wales in the past year alone, while falling international student numbers and demographic changes are creating further uncertainty. We welcome the review of university funding, but you'll know that it must deliver practical solutions, not just another consultation. Deputy Minister, you've spoken prior to this statement of the possibility of university mergers, but there's little clarity about what this actually means. Of course, forced mergers would be a major undertaking and may not address the underlying problems in universities. So, I wonder, in your response, if you could clarify what role you see mergers playing, whether there are particular models you're considering, and whether any options are off the table at this stage. Finally, Deputy Minister, skills are not just about young people entering work, as you would acknowledge. Wales must become a lifelong learning nation where adults can retrain, upskill and adapt throughout their careers. So, I wonder if you could expand further on what the Welsh Government is doing to ensure adults across Wales have access to flexible learning opportunities that will enable them to gain new skills and qualifications. Diolch yn fawr iawn. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767920 424 En 2026-07-14T18:45:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=18902&l=en 260714-8 7. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Skills and Tertiary Education: Priorities for Skills and Tertiary Education C 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767928 425 En 2026-07-14T18:48:52 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=19134&l=en 260714-8 7. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Skills and Tertiary Education: Priorities for Skills and Tertiary Education C 8643 8643 Cefin Campbell https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=8643 Campbell, Cefin Diolch yn fawr iawn, Sam. Again, a number of really interesting points, and I agree with the context of many of the questions you raise. I'll start off with the skills shortages. I've met with a number of businesses in Sir Gaerfyrddin, but also elsewhere as well, and they want apprenticeships, they want to upskill their staff. But we need to build any strategy for the future on hard evidence and data, which is why this skills audit is really, really important. And I expect the learning and work partners to produce a report for us in March/April of next year, but some of the headline findings will be available for that skills summit in October.  The audit will bring together existing evidence, analyse available data, and gather views from industry and business representatives, employers and other key stakeholders, to provide a clear cross-Government view of the future workforce needs of Wales. And I think we absolutely need to do that before we move forward to the next stage. Of course, in the meantime, we will continue to support apprenticeships, we will continue to support skills development. But I'm hoping that by March of next year, that work will be built on solid data and evidence. Apprenticeships: I'm a huge supporter of apprenticeships, and I want Careers Wales, for example, to make it clear to young people in school that a traditional route isn't confining them in any way, because apprenticeships offer another option that they may want to consider as a pathway into work. We haven't set a target for apprenticeships, but I'm open-minded about that. Let's see what the skills audit shows first. Because we need future targets to be informed by robust evidence—and I'm sure you would agree with me on that—and also on engagement with employers, and I'm sure you would agree with me that that is important as well, because employers have a crucial role to play. Universities and job losses: it's obviously hugely disappointing to have seen these job losses over recent years. My fear is that we will see more as we move forward, because some of our universities are facing serious financial challenges. But I want the universities as institutions, and I, certainly, as a Deputy Minister, want some reassurance from them that they will work closely with unions, as I want to do in the spirit of social partnership, to mitigate as best as we can the devastating job losses that we have already seen, and might see more of, moving forward. You mentioned mergers; I have never mentioned the word 'merger'. What I have said, and you will see, when the terms of reference will be published over the coming weeks, is that I am asking the independent panel to consider the future financial sustainability, operational sustainability and organisational sustainability of our university sector. It is for the panel to come up with recommendations around what they think is the most sustainable future for that sector, and I will give those recommendations my full consideration. Your final point, and my final answer to you is: adult education needs to be flexible in order to meet the needs of those people, and I'm fully supportive of that methodology in terms of provision for adults. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767916 426 En 2026-07-14T18:50:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=19202&l=en 260714-8 7. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Skills and Tertiary Education: Priorities for Skills and Tertiary Education C 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767927 427 Cy 2026-07-14T18:54:10 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=19452&l=en 260714-8 7. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Skills and Tertiary Education: Priorities for Skills and Tertiary Education C 12177 12177 Kerry Ferguson https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12177 Deputy Presiding Officer Ferguson, Kerry Thank you. I'm going to see how many speakers I can call, Deputy Minister, but there are only six minutes remaining for the item, so if everyone could be succinct. Kiera Marshall. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767929 428 En 2026-07-14T18:54:25 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=19467&l=en 260714-8 7. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Skills and Tertiary Education: Priorities for Skills and Tertiary Education C 12166 12166 Kiera Marshall https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12166 Marshall, Kiera Diolch. Last week I visited Cardiff and Vale College to meet with learners, staff, unions and the college leadership about what they're doing. I heard directly from apprentices and junior apprentices about the life-changing opportunities they've been given by the apprenticeships. I think one issue that was consistently raised by all of the learners I spoke to was about how they made the decision to go onto those courses and those pathways. Basically, every single one of them told me that they originally chose or they were pushed into a more traditional pathway and had to drop out or change or do their own research to find out what was available for them. Our young people shouldn't be left without support to make decisions like this, and we want to make sure they're pursuing and doing what is best for them and right for them. So, I wonder if the Deputy Minister could outline what this Government's going to do to improve careers advice, guidance, work experience and information for young people on all the options available to them, to ensure they have the best experience and they aren't disadvantaged and, at worst, they don't disengage with the education system altogether. Diolch. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767953 429 En 2026-07-14T18:55:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=19502&l=en 260714-8 7. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Skills and Tertiary Education: Priorities for Skills and Tertiary Education C 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767961 430 En 2026-07-14T18:55:23 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=19525&l=en 260714-8 7. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Skills and Tertiary Education: Priorities for Skills and Tertiary Education C 8643 8643 Cefin Campbell https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=8643 Campbell, Cefin Thank you, Kiera. A few of us in the Chamber were members of the sixth Senedd's education committee, and one of the inquiries we undertook was to look at post-16 pathways. One of the clear messages that came out of that inquiry was that we need to provide young people at a much earlier age with advice and information around career pathways—not to allow them just to follow traditional routes, but to open their minds about other potential avenues. The junior apprenticeship scheme and apprenticeship schemes in general are some of those alternative pathways that can lead to good jobs and well-paid jobs in Wales. But just one point on junior apprenticeships: they are extremely important as an intervention pathway to support those at risk of becoming NEETs—those who are disengaged from education, those that are vulnerable young people. So, there is an absolutely vital role for junior apprenticeships to play in that space as well. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767963 431 En 2026-07-14T18:56:48 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=19610&l=en 260714-8 7. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Skills and Tertiary Education: Priorities for Skills and Tertiary Education C 12144 12144 Joshua Kim https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12144 Kim, Joshua Deputy Minister, thank you for your statement. I want to focus on the increased participation fund. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767965 432 Cy 2026-07-14T18:56:54 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=19616&l=en 260714-8 7. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Skills and Tertiary Education: Priorities for Skills and Tertiary Education C 12144 12144 Joshua Kim https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12144 Kim, Joshua Deputy Minister, the principal of Coleg y Cymoedd has written to me, saying that the significant reduction in the increased participation fund has forced him to put hundreds of prospective students on waiting lists across the college's campuses, although many of these learners are trying to seek qualifications in priority sectors, such as construction, childcare and digital skills. At a time when we're all trying to reduce the number of young people who are not in education, employment or training, and address the skills shortage facing employers in Wales, what assessment has the Welsh Government made of the impact of the reduction in further education funding on opportunities for learners and the skills pipeline, please? 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767970 433 Cy 2026-07-14T18:57:42 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=19664&l=en 260714-8 7. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Skills and Tertiary Education: Priorities for Skills and Tertiary Education C 8643 8643 Cefin Campbell https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=8643 Campbell, Cefin May I thank you, first of all, for asking the question in Welsh? It's great to hear more people in this Chamber using the Welsh language. And perhaps I'd like to take advantage, Dirprwy Lywydd, if I may, to encourage anyone, whatever level of Welsh you have, to use the Welsh that you do have, because we will all support you and welcome you to do so. So, a heartfelt thanks to you for setting an example this afternoon. I have answered the question to an extent already, in terms of the increase in the levels of young people who attend FE colleges. We are keeping an eye on the situation. Medr is aware, as are we, that perhaps there will be more pressure again in September. So, at that time, I and, possibly, the Minister for Finance will have to have a conversation about how much we can extend the Welsh Government budget and Medr's budget to support the increase in the pipeline. You also asked about support for people who are learning Welsh and for people to use the language. Well, as you would expect, that is central to the work that I am doing, and every other Minister in the Government. That's why I'm very keen to see so many of our learners doing a part or all of their courses through the medium of Welsh, because they're important skills for the future. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767973 434 En 2026-07-14T18:59:27 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=19769&l=en 260714-8 7. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Skills and Tertiary Education: Priorities for Skills and Tertiary Education C 5107 5107 Vikki Howells https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=5107 Howells, Vikki With just nine universities and 13 FE colleges in Wales, an effective Minister should be able and willing to hold direct talks with institutions and trade unions when issues arise. You'll know that that's how I operated when I held that portfolio. So, with that in mind, I'm focusing on my constituency. What direct discussions have you had with Coleg y Cymoedd regarding the participation pressures it faces, with over 500 students now on waiting lists for courses beginning in September? Five hundred students are at high risk of becoming NEET unless that extra funding is made available. What direct discussions have you held with the trade unions University and College Union and Unison regarding the threat of compulsory redundancies at the University of South Wales? Job cuts look to be focused mainly within student support, which is a crucial area for encouraging and increasing participation and to ensure that students complete their courses successfully. What direct talks have you had on these two crucial issues, Deputy Minister? 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767851 435 En 2026-07-14T19:00:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=19802&l=en 260714-8 7. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Skills and Tertiary Education: Priorities for Skills and Tertiary Education C 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767861 436 Cy 2026-07-14T19:04:16 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=20058&l=en 260714-8 7. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Skills and Tertiary Education: Priorities for Skills and Tertiary Education C 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767852 437 Cy 2026-07-14T19:00:32 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=19834&l=en 260714-8 7. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Skills and Tertiary Education: Priorities for Skills and Tertiary Education C 8643 8643 Cefin Campbell https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=8643 Campbell, Cefin Thank you for the questions.  16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767854 438 En 2026-07-14T19:00:34 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=19836&l=en 260714-8 7. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Skills and Tertiary Education: Priorities for Skills and Tertiary Education C 8643 8643 Cefin Campbell https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=8643 Campbell, Cefin Just to answer your central point, both the Minister for Education and the Welsh Language and I have had numerous meetings. As you can imagine, all kinds of stakeholders have wanted to meet us and everybody wanted to meet us in that first week. Obviously, that was impossible due to diary pressures and also the availability of other stakeholders. We have met Universities Wales and we have met ColegauCymru, which included the chief executive of Coleg y Cymoedd, and we fully understand the pressures on the FE sector. You'll be glad to know that the Minister and I are meeting UCU and Unison the week after next—I think it's the last week of July—and I met one of the officials of UCU this afternoon. I had a brief discussion with him and I reassured him that it was purely coincidental that we are meeting the unions after the universities and colleges. It is no reflection on any priority of one over the other. It is just a matter of the timetabling and the diary pressures. But I'm looking forward immensely to that meeting, because I want to engage on a regular basis with the unions. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767857 439 Cy 2026-07-14T19:02:12 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=19934&l=en 260714-8 7. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Skills and Tertiary Education: Priorities for Skills and Tertiary Education C 12177 12177 Kerry Ferguson https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12177 Deputy Presiding Officer Ferguson, Kerry Apologies to those I can't call. Finally, Sera Evans.  16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767859 440 Cy 2026-07-14T19:02:18 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=19940&l=en 260714-8 7. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Skills and Tertiary Education: Priorities for Skills and Tertiary Education C 330 330 Sera Evans https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=330 Evans, Sera Thank you, Dirprwy Lywydd. Deputy Minister, there's a bit of a running theme here, I'm afraid. We know apprenticeships are a core pillar of policy across Government, supporting priorities in the economy, health, agriculture and much more. Improving access to high-quality, impartial careers information and guidance, as we heard from Kiera this evening, is a crucial part of the skills ecosystem, and we must get it right. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767976 441 Cy 260714-8 7. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Skills and Tertiary Education: Priorities for Skills and Tertiary Education I The Llywydd (Huw Irranca-Davies) took the Chair. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767991 442 Cy 2026-07-14T19:02:45 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=19967&l=en 260714-8 7. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Skills and Tertiary Education: Priorities for Skills and Tertiary Education C 330 330 Sera Evans https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=330 Evans, Sera We want to help young people make the right choice for them at the right time, but there is a risk that current funding models unintentionally drive competition between educational providers. However, as we heard from you, there are also excellent examples of schools and colleges working together. The junior apprenticeship partnership between Ysgol Gyfun Gymraeg Cwm Rhondda—where, by the way, I am vice-chair of the governors, as noted in my register of interests—and Coleg y Cymoedd, for example, has transformed outcomes for young people who are at risk of disengaging from traditional education. For example, a pupil called Gwenni increased her attendance from just 8 per cent in year 10 to 70 per cent in year 11. She achieved GCSEs in mathematics, numeracy, English and science, alongside an Agored Cymru level 2 extended certificate. She will move on to a level 1 art and design course at Coleg y Cymoedd Nantgarw campus in September, and she was named alternative provision learner of the year at the college's learner awards this year. Given the success of programmes such as this— 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767992 443 Cy 2026-07-14T19:04:01 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=20043&l=en 260714-8 7. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Skills and Tertiary Education: Priorities for Skills and Tertiary Education C 5053 5053 Huw Irranca-Davies https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=5053 Llywydd Irranca-Davies, Huw Sera, you must conclude.  16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767993 444 Cy 2026-07-14T19:04:02 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=20044&l=en 260714-8 7. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Skills and Tertiary Education: Priorities for Skills and Tertiary Education C 330 330 Sera Evans https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=330 Evans, Sera How will the Welsh Government work with schools, colleges and other providers to expand access to high-quality vocational pathways for 14 to 16-year-olds and encourage greater collaboration across the system? Thank you. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767862 445 Cy 2026-07-14T19:04:18 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=20060&l=en 260714-8 7. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Skills and Tertiary Education: Priorities for Skills and Tertiary Education C 8643 8643 Cefin Campbell https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=8643 Campbell, Cefin Thank you very much, Sera. Very briefly, we must bring the competition between schools and colleges to an end. We need to see more collaboration between them in order to ensure that the provision and the best possible options are available. There are examples of good practice. We need to improve that. We also need to keep a close eye on how we can improve collaboration in terms of Welsh-medium provision too. I have posed this challenge to Wales's FE colleges. They have to increase their Welsh-medium provision in order to ensure that more Welsh-medium schools can work with them in order to offer the vocational provision and the more academic provision. I'm extremely pleased to hear about the work between Ysgol Gyfun Cwm Rhondda and Coleg y Cymoedd, and the success of—Jeni? 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767873 446 Cy 2026-07-14T19:05:35 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=20137&l=en 260714-8 7. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Skills and Tertiary Education: Priorities for Skills and Tertiary Education C 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767865 447 Cy 2026-07-14T19:05:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=20102&l=en 260714-8 7. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Skills and Tertiary Education: Priorities for Skills and Tertiary Education C 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767869 448 En 2026-07-14T19:05:34 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=20136&l=en 260714-8 7. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Skills and Tertiary Education: Priorities for Skills and Tertiary Education C 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767867 449 Cy 2026-07-14T19:05:23 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=20125&l=en 260714-8 7. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Skills and Tertiary Education: Priorities for Skills and Tertiary Education C 330 330 Sera Evans https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=330 Evans, Sera Gwenni.  16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767868 450 Cy 2026-07-14T19:05:24 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=20126&l=en 260714-8 7. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Skills and Tertiary Education: Priorities for Skills and Tertiary Education C 8643 8643 Cefin Campbell https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=8643 Campbell, Cefin Many congratulations to Gwenni. She's an exemplar in terms of what can happen when colleges and schools come together to work together. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767871 451 Cy 2026-07-14T19:05:33 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=20135&l=en 260714-9 8. Legislative Consent Motion: Steel Industry (Nationalisation) Bill C 5053 5053 Huw Irranca-Davies https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=5053 Llywydd Irranca-Davies, Huw Item 8, legislative consent motion, Steel Industry (Nationalisation) Bill. I call on the Cabinet Minister for Enterprise, Connectivity and Energy to move the motion—Adam Price. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767874 452 Cy 260714-9 8. Legislative Consent Motion: Steel Industry (Nationalisation) Bill I Motion NDM9286 Adam Price To propose that the Senedd, in accordance with Standing Order 29.6 agrees that provisions in the Steel Industry (Nationalisation) Bill in so far as they have regard to devolved matters, should be considered by the UK Parliament. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767875 453 Cy 260714-9 8. Legislative Consent Motion: Steel Industry (Nationalisation) Bill I Motion moved. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767876 454 En 2026-07-14T19:05:47 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=20149&l=en 260714-9 8. Legislative Consent Motion: Steel Industry (Nationalisation) Bill C 5030 5030 Adam Price https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=5030 Cabinet Minister for Enterprise, Connectivity and Energy Price, Adam Lywydd, diolch yn fawr. I move the motion and recommend that the Senedd gives its consent to the relevant provisions in the Steel Industry (Nationalisation) Bill as set out in the legislative consent memorandum. Steel is no abstraction to Wales, it is in our bridges and our railways, in the turbines that will power our future and in the history of generations of families from Shotton to Llanwern, from Trostre to Cardiff. It's a strategic national asset, and a country that cannot make its own steel is a country living at the mercy of others. That is why this Bill matters. It builds on the UK Government's steel strategy and it provides the power to transfer the shares or property of a steel undertaking into public ownership where a public interest test is met: in simple terms, a safety net beneath an industry too important to lose. The need is real and urgent. Energy costs are among the highest in Europe, global overcapacity is squeezing prices, trade barriers are closing markets and the short-term cost of the transition to the low-carbon steel of the future weighs heavily on the industry of today. But I must also be honest with the Senedd: welcoming this Bill is a bittersweet experience. When the blast furnaces at Port Talbot hung in the balance in 2024, we were told by one Government in Westminster and then the next that nationalisation was not on the table. Roughly 2,600 people lost their livelihoods. A year later, when Scunthorpe's furnaces came under the same threat, Parliament was recalled on a Saturday to keep them burning. Suddenly, every option was on the table. That was the difference, and Wales felt it keenly. I deeply regret that the purpose at the heart of this legislation before us today was not embraced in time to save the blast furnaces at Port Talbot. The belief is wide and deep in Wales that our steel industry was not treated equally. We do not ask for preferential treatment for Wales, but we do expect to be treated with the same fairness and the same dignity. Even so, yesterday's regret must not stop us from protecting tomorrow. I welcome the fact that this tool will now be firmly in the toolbox for Wales, as for every other part of the United Kingdom. And let's also be clear about what this Bill does not do. It does not guarantee the future of the Welsh steel industry. No statute can do that. What it guarantees is that, if the hour of danger comes again, Government can act within days rather than despair for months, so long as these powers remain on the statute book where they're needed. We will oppose any attempt to let them quietly slip from it. A sunset clause on these powers contained in the Bill must never become the sunset of an industry. We also must be equally clear about something else: a safety net for one producer must not pull the floor from under the others. If British Steel in Scunthorpe is nationalised, a state-owned undertaking must not undermine the commercial position of 7 Steel or Tata Steel. A company relying on the public purse should not price below other producers, nor enjoy an unfair advantage in public procurement, nor draw investment and energy support away from Welsh sites. The Welsh Government will hold the UK Government to this principle at every stage. The Bill deals with both reserved and devolved matters, and it will affect all four nations of the United Kingdom. I told the UK Government clearly that the lack of time given to this Government and to the Senedd to scrutinise the Bill was unacceptable. Urgency is never an excuse for disregarding devolution. We did insist on clear commitments to protect Welsh interests and we secured important undertakings as a result, and I will return to them in closing. While there is currently no intention or need to use these powers in Wales, it is right that they exist, and it is the UK Government that holds the resources to act at this scale. Let's remind ourselves what is at stake. Once the electric arc furnace at Port Talbot is operational—the second largest anywhere in the world—nearly half of the UK's steel-making capacity will be here in Wales. The future of steel in these islands is a Welsh future. The Bill does not secure that future by itself, but it ensures that no Government can ever again claim that the means to defend it, if necessary, is missing. It's on this basis, clear-eyed and with our expectations on the record, that I recommend the Senedd gives its consent.  16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767885 455 En 2026-07-14T19:10:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=20402&l=en 260714-9 8. Legislative Consent Motion: Steel Industry (Nationalisation) Bill C 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767888 456 Cy 2026-07-14T19:11:12 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=20474&l=en 260714-9 8. Legislative Consent Motion: Steel Industry (Nationalisation) Bill C 5053 5053 Huw Irranca-Davies https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=5053 Llywydd Irranca-Davies, Huw I now call on the Chair of the Legislation Committee, Sarah Cooper-Lesadd. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767889 457 En 2026-07-14T19:11:18 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=20480&l=en 260714-9 8. Legislative Consent Motion: Steel Industry (Nationalisation) Bill C 12167 12167 Sarah Cooper-Lesadd https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12167 Cooper-Lesadd, Sarah Diolch, Lywydd. I'm grateful to the Cabinet Minister for bringing this motion forward. Let me begin with a word about the scale of the task. This is one of seven legislative consent memoranda the Legislation Committee has considered, and we have been operational for just three weeks. At least two more are waiting for us in September. If I may say so, we really have hit the ground running, and I'd like to thank everyone in the committee who has worked so hard with me to do this. At our very first meeting, we recognised that scrutinising consent memoranda would be core to our work, and seven in three weeks rather proves the point. But that, of course, is the work of the committee, and it is work we are glad to do. I want to raise three matters with the Senedd today: the timing of this memorandum, the absence of a recommendation and the substance of what the committee found.  First, timing. The memorandum was not laid until six weeks after the Bill's introduction to the House of Commons. We acknowledge that the Bill arrived very soon after this Welsh Government was formed, and we do recognise that was challenging, but the Welsh Government would have known that the UK Parliament had agreed to expedite the Bill through its stages, so the pressure on scrutiny time was foreseeable. Standing Orders expect a consent memorandum to be laid, normally, within two weeks of a Bill's introduction. Better observance of that expectation would greatly improve the Senedd's opportunity to scrutinise, and we have written to the First Minister to say so. Second, the recommendation, or rather its absence. The first eight consent memoranda laid before this Senedd contained no recommendation on whether the Senedd should consent. Instead, in each case, the responsible Minister says a recommendation will follow once the Welsh Government has analysed the wider impact of the UK legislative programme for Wales. We are genuinely unclear why so broad an analysis should bear on recommendation about an individual Bill, and we have written to the First Minister seeking clarity. On this Bill, a recommendation to consent did reach us, but not until a letter on 7 July, by which point we already had to consider this memorandum on 6 July in order to meet the timescales for today's debate. That timetable also forced a decision I want to be transparent about. Because our time was so limited, we wrote directly to the Secretary of State for Business and Trade, supporting the Cabinet Minister's request to strengthen the Welsh Government's role in the exercise of any future powers should a steel undertaking in Wales be nationalised. Let me be clear about why I flag this. We did so because of the specific compressed circumstances of this Bill, and it should not be read as the committee's settled preference. Our preferred position always is the fullest possible protection for the role of the Senedd as the legislature responsible for devolved matters in Wales. Third, the substance. The Cabinet Minister's 7 July letter updated us on inter-governmental negotiations. We now know the UK Government has given a despatch box commitment that it will ordinarily consult the Welsh Ministers if the transfer powers are likely to be used in relation to a steel undertaking whose principal place of business is in Wales. We also note that the Welsh Government used the Interministerial Standing Committee to press the importance of parliamentary timetables that give this Senedd and its committees the maximum opportunity to scrutinise. Llywydd, the committee offers a number of conclusions. First, we agree with the Welsh Government's assessment of the provisions in the Bill that require the Senedd's consent. Second, the Welsh Government advocating for the Senedd to have maximum opportunity to consider Bills that trigger the consent process is to be welcomed. Third, poor communications between the two Governments is regrettable and has seemingly contributed to the delay in laying this memorandum and so the time available for scrutiny. Fourth, the absence of the Welsh Government's recommendation on consent at the point we had to scrutinise the memorandum plainly affected our scrutiny, and we hope that Senedd committees will not regularly find themselves in that position in future. Fifth, as we said in our letter to the First Minister on 8 July, we remain unclear why the impact of the UK's Government legislative programme as a whole should influence a Welsh Minister's recommendation on an individual Bill. We do not consider this a desirable approach, and we hope it will not be repeated when future UK legislative programmes are announced. And, on that despatch-box commitment, it is not binding on any Government, its value weakened further by the fact it reflects only the current UK's Government's intentions, not the action a future Government could lawfully take. Finally, I would draw the Senedd's attention to a document laid only recently: the Counsel General's written statement, 'Welsh Government Principles on UK Legislation in Devolved Areas'. Those principles state, and I quote, that: 'non-legislative intergovernmental agreements, such as Memoranda of Understanding and ministerial assurances, should not be relied upon in place of statutory provision'. This is the Government's stated principle, yet, on the Bill, it has accepted precisely such an assurance in place of statutory provision. The role of the Senedd should not depend on goodwill alone. Safeguards that can be withdrawn are no safeguards at all. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767860 458 En 2026-07-14T19:15:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=20702&l=en 260714-9 8. Legislative Consent Motion: Steel Industry (Nationalisation) Bill C 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767901 459 En 2026-07-14T19:20:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=21002&l=en 260714-9 8. Legislative Consent Motion: Steel Industry (Nationalisation) Bill C 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767863 460 En 2026-07-14T19:17:21 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=20843&l=en 260714-9 8. Legislative Consent Motion: Steel Industry (Nationalisation) Bill C 12158 12158 Jason O'Connell https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12158 O'Connell, Jason Reform believes Britain must do everything it can to retain the ability to make its own steel. Our MPs supported this Bill in Westminster, and today we will support it in the Senedd. But, we have to be very clear, this Bill comes far too late. The workers and their families at Port Talbot know that better than anyone. For years, they were promised certainty, instead they got delay. They were promised a plan and, despite the £1.25 billion transition programme, including up to £500 million of taxpayer support, many workers are still asking what replaces the secure skilled jobs that have been lost. Instead of those jobs, they got managed decline. Thanks to praying at the altar of net zero, we all now know that economic decline comes hand in hand with net zero. The blast furnaces have gone, thousands of livelihoods have been affected, and Britain has become more dependent on imported steel as a result. More than 2,100 Tata Steel jobs had been lost by September last year, with many of those losses concentrated in and around Port Talbot. Behind every one of those figures is a family, a household and a community that deserved better from its Government. While countries like India and China continue to expand their steel making, forging ahead using a balanced energy mix, what we have is not an industrial strategy that people can rely on, it's failure on an industrial scale. These decisions haven't affected climate change one bit, or even contributed to solving it. They've moved the problem elsewhere, if not, indeed, made it worse by having to ship product around the world and weakening our national resilience. The closure of Port Talbot's blast furnaces have been linked to almost two thirds of the reduction in UK emissions between 2023 and 2025, yet global emissions do not disappear. When that production moves overseas, they are simply exported along with the jobs. The only achievement here is economic decay and destroying Welsh communities. Where intervention is needed to protect steel making, it should be decisive and focused on rebuilding a competitive industry. Our steel workers deserve an industry with a future. Our nation demands a strong steel industry and a Government with a credible strategy, one that protects jobs, strengthens Wales, and secures Britain's industrial independence. This Bill is a necessary step towards that and it has our support. Diolch. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767913 461 En 2026-07-14T19:20:04 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=21006&l=en 260714-9 8. Legislative Consent Motion: Steel Industry (Nationalisation) Bill C 12164 12164 Elyn Stephens https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12164 Stephens, Elyn This Bill is critical to supporting such a key asset. Primary steel plays a critical role in so many parts of our economy, and maintaining the ability to produce it underpins so many key sectors. My constituents know this more than most, with generations of experience and knowledge in this industry. While this Bill is welcome, and I support the Gweinidog's recommendation to grant consent, I have to say, given the importance of steel to the Welsh economy and given our recent experience, it's extremely disappointing to see how little time both the Senedd and the Welsh Government has had in terms of genuine dialogue with the UK Government on the implications of this Bill and the role the Welsh Government would play in the event that this Bill would be used in a Welsh context. I welcome the concession won by the Gweinidog, and we may hear a bit more about that later. However, people in Port Talbot have been let down by the previous Conservative Government and the soon-to-be previous Labour UK Government under Starmer.  Members of the sixth Senedd will remember Luke Fletcher's calls for the UK Government to bring the Port Talbot site into public ownership and retain primary steel making throughout the transition. At the time, those proposals were ridiculed and dismissed as fanciful. Yet, here we are today, discussing the implications for Cymru of a UK Steel Industry (Nationalisation) Bill. It's abundantly clear, regardless of which party is in power at Westminster, what was deemed necessary for Scunthorpe was apparently too much to ask for Port Talbot. What assurances can the Gweinidog give to workers in Port Talbot that this Government will continue to make the case for greater investment at the Port Talbot site under a Burnham-led UK Government? 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767919 462 En 2026-07-14T19:21:57 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=21119&l=en 260714-9 8. Legislative Consent Motion: Steel Industry (Nationalisation) Bill C 12175 12175 Shav Taj https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12175 Taj, Shav Thank you for asking me to speak on this really important legislative consent motion this afternoon in relation to the UK Labour Government's steel nationalisation Bill. As a Labour member, as a trade unionist, support for our steel workers is very much in my DNA. My colleagues here today and my predecessors in the Senedd have always strongly supported steel workers in Wales, and we will continue to do so, whatever it takes to stand up for steel and protect thousands of steel-making jobs and communities in Wales. Steel is, of course, as many have said, one of the most important industries in Wales, whether in Port Talbot, known as 'steeltown', or in Llanwern in Newport, where generations of families have built their lives around the steel industry. The steel industry has, of course, been a major employer for decades in the town of Port Talbot, and thanks to the prompt actions of the UK Labour Government in 2024, although, of course, we recognise that, sadly, the last blast furnace was closed down, there was hope, and there still is hope, in the form of a transition period and funding that has saved jobs. With £500 million of UK Labour Government investment, as part of a £1.3 billion deal into steel transition in Port Talbot, we were able to protect 5,000 jobs and ensure that Welsh steel making has a new future with a new electric arc furnace being commissioned, and, importantly, workers have had a seat at the table during the transition period. Working in social partnership with our unions, the Welsh Government and the UK Government invested in helping workers find new opportunities and new careers, with Port Talbot becoming a model for a worker-centred just transition. Instead of leaving people behind to fend for themselves, unions, the Welsh Government and the UK Government invested in helping workers find new opportunities and new careers. Now, as the daughter of a steelworker, I know that when change comes to a steelworks, it affects far more than the payroll. It affects confidence, it affects family life and mental well-being. That's why the support that's been offered to workers throughout this transition has been so important in helping people to actually navigate that uncertain period with dignity and hope. Without the support provided through the community support centre and the wider transition board programme, many workers would have faced redundancy with far fewer options on the table. The success of that model has helped people move into retraining, access advice and find new opportunities while remaining rooted in their community. We've also not seen any increase in unemployment benefits claimed during the transition, which is testament to its success. Now, turning to this LCM, I know there's been extensive engagement with the Department for Business and Trade, the Bill's sponsor, the Wales Office and this Welsh Government, and I understand that this Bill is primarily being brought forward to address the current situation at British Steel Limited in Scunthorpe. The UK Government has no plans to use the powers in this Bill more widely, and I know that concerns have rightly been raised about the powers being used in Wales at a future date. However, I'm reassured that the UK Labour Government has listened to these concerns about any potential impact in Wales and has set out a number of commitments in response. Firstly, DBT has confirmed that the UK Government would consult Welsh Ministers in advance of using the powers of this Bill in any undertaking in Wales. So, it's worth noting that this was accepted, of course, by the Scottish Government as being sufficient assurance to support the LCM in Scotland. Secondly, it goes further by confirming that, should the UK Government ever have to nationalise a Welsh steelworks, the UK Government would identify and ensure an appropriate role for the Welsh Government in the oversight of the works, and it would do this while recognising the statutory role of the board and the Secretary of State in those circumstances. And it also reflects the established practice of the UK Labour Government in terms of steel projects in Wales. For example, the Port Talbot transition board established to administer more than £100 million of UK Government funding to the steelworks and businesses affected by the transition is deputy chaired by a Welsh Government Minister—now, obviously, the Minister, Adam Price. So, I am satisfied that the UK Government has now addressed the Welsh Government's requests, and I now urge Senedd Members to support the LCM on this Bill. I support this LCM today because it's not about 'if' and it's not about 'when' these powers are ever going to be needed in Wales, because of the assurances I have set out above and, actually, many of the comments as well that have been made in the Chamber so far. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767879 463 En 2026-07-14T19:25:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=21302&l=en 260714-9 8. Legislative Consent Motion: Steel Industry (Nationalisation) Bill C 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767880 464 En 2026-07-14T19:26:31 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=21393&l=en 260714-9 8. Legislative Consent Motion: Steel Industry (Nationalisation) Bill C 212 212 Janet Finch-Saunders https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=212 Finch-Saunders, Janet Of course, this Bill does confer powers on the Secretary of State to make regulations to nationalise a steel undertaking in the United Kingdom. While it will not immediately nationalise any steel company, it does give the Secretary of State powers to take action in certain circumstances, which could include steel undertakings in Wales. These are significant powers, and whilst I understand the reasons they are being sought, I believe they should be approached with caution. Before the closure of Tata Steel's blast furnace at Port Talbot, Wales's steel accounted for 60 per cent of total UK crude steel output and primary iron, it employed over 4,000 people—a figure that has now sadly halved—it contributed around £3.2 billion per year to the Welsh economy, and it represented approximately 3 per cent of Wales's total economic output. These figures demonstrate just how important the steel industry is to Wales, not only to our economy, but to thousands of families and communities that have depended on it for generations. Any decisions affecting the future of this sector will have lasting consequences. Of course, the Conservatives have always recognised the vital importance of our Port Talbot Tata Steel site and, to help secure its long-term future, it was, in fact, the UK Conservative Government that agreed a joint investment package with Tata Steel. Rather than taking the company into public ownership, it chose to work in partnership with the private sector to deliver a sustainable future for steel making in south Wales. That package included a £500 million Government grant to help fund a £1.25 billion transformation to a modern, greener electric arc furnace. This was a substantial commitment by the UK Conservative Government, demonstrating that Government can play an active role in supporting strategic industry whilst also encouraging private investment and innovation. Whilst it is important that Governments are able to step in and support our vital steel industry when circumstances demand it, we must never forget the benefits that come from Governments working constructively alongside the private sector. Partnership can deliver investment, safeguard jobs, modernise production, help secure the long-term future of our steel industry, and without making nationalisation the default option. Our focus should actually here remain on creating the conditions that encourage investment, protect skilled jobs, and ensure that Welsh steel continues to have a strong future. Whilst I do understand the intentions behind this Bill, my Welsh Conservative colleagues and I cannot and will not support this LCM. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767882 465 En 2026-07-14T19:29:47 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=21589&l=en 260714-9 8. Legislative Consent Motion: Steel Industry (Nationalisation) Bill C 12142 12142 Benjamin Hodge Mckenna https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12142 Hodge Mckenna, Benjamin I'd like to start by thanking everybody who's contributed to the debate so far. As a Port Talbot boy, I don't think I've ever heard Port Talbot mentioned so much in political discussion; I only wish it was on a more positive note. Before I go any further, I'd like to declare about members of my extended family that some still work in the steelworks and some have been forced to seek alternative employment. I stand today in support of the legislative consent motion for the steel industry Bill. As the Cabinet Minister said, steel remains a vital component of our economy and our communities. I believe that this piece of legislation should be given consent so that steel can play its part in securing Wales's future. However, as has been mentioned, we cannot ignore the timing. For my home town of Port Talbot, this legislation has come too late. The blast furnaces that defined generations of Welsh steel making have already been extinguished, and the loss of those highly skilled jobs and the impact upon families and the local economy have been profound. I support this Bill today because we must do everything possible to protect what's left of our steel industry in Wales and give our workers hope for the future. Steel is not just another economic sector, it is a foundational part of our construction, manufacturing and infrastructure projects across the country. Losing any more steel capacity would be a serious blow to our industrial base in Wales. I am therefore urging the Welsh Government to work with Westminster to ensure that any nationalisation delivers genuine long-term security for the remaining workforce in Wales, invests in modern technology and helps to maintain high-skilled employment in the south Wales Valleys. The people of Port Talbot deserve more than managed decline. They deserve a viable, financially sustainable future in the industry that they helped to build. I'll be supporting this motion today, but I'm doing so with a clear message: we must learn from what happened in my home town. Future decisions regarding strategic industries must put jobs, skills and community stability first. Diolch yn fawr. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767930 466 En 2026-07-14T19:30:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=21602&l=en 260714-9 8. Legislative Consent Motion: Steel Industry (Nationalisation) Bill C 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767940 467 Cy 2026-07-14T19:32:21 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=21743&l=en 260714-9 8. Legislative Consent Motion: Steel Industry (Nationalisation) Bill C 5053 5053 Huw Irranca-Davies https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=5053 Llywydd Irranca-Davies, Huw Thank you. I now call on the Cabinet Minister to reply to the debate. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767941 468 En 2026-07-14T19:32:25 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=21747&l=en 260714-9 8. Legislative Consent Motion: Steel Industry (Nationalisation) Bill C 5030 5030 Adam Price https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=5030 Cabinet Minister for Enterprise, Connectivity and Energy Price, Adam Diolch, Lywydd. I'd like to thank all the Members who contributed to this evening's debate. Let me begin with a concern that is widely shared across the Siambr: the way that this Bill was handled, which did curtail our ability to scrutinise it. The preceding legislation that led to the Scunthorpe operations being effectively put into Government control and then nationalised, of course, was an England-only Bill and it was passed, as I said earlier, in a day. This was a four-nation Bill. It relates not just to a potential move in relation to that one site, but it's a piece of legislation that could be applied to steel operations anywhere in the United Kingdom. Given that, I think the approach should have reflected the devolution settlement. There was no prior engagement with the Welsh Government. The reason that has been given, I understand, is one of it being commercially confidential. Well, with something that is as strategically important to the future of the Welsh economy and the UK economy, then I don't think that stands up to scrutiny, to be perfectly frank. We were put in a difficult position, as were the other devolved legislatures. The Northern Ireland Assembly hasn't been able to arrive at a position because there's been simply no time because of the compressed timetable. We, as we always will, will reflect on what we could have done differently, but, in essence, we were put in a very, very difficult position. What we tried to do was, given that suboptimal position, we tried to get the best result for Wales. Yes, the commitments that we sought in relation to Wales's legitimate interests on behalf of our steel communities—we wanted that in statute, that those are our principles. I think they're principles that will, I think, probably be widely shared right across this Siambr. Now, we were able, because we held out, to get those commitments, at least on the record, and we were successful at least in getting a commitment from the current UK Government. But if they were prepared to make that promise at the despatch box, why weren't they prepared to put it in statute? Because the promise doesn't change, the commitment doesn't change, but, of course, a statutory commitment is always better because you can hold not just this Government to account, but, of course, it stands, then, in the legislation governing future administrations as well, and I simply don't understand the resistance to putting it on a statutory basis. People have spoken rightly with feeling about Port Talbot, and I will not add further to what I said in opening, except this: we cannot restore what that community lost, but we can make certain that the option to nationalise is firmly available to future Governments if necessary, and that's what consent today achieves, and it's why, in all conscience, we could not do anything other than recommend to the Senedd that we support it. Of course, any policy in relation to nationalisation or wider steel strategy has to be fair, and we have to have fair competition, and I think we were right and other Members are right to raise that. Public ownership exists to rescue an industry, not to distort a market, and if these powers are used in Scunthorpe or anywhere else, we will measure the consequences against the interests of our Welsh steel industry, our Welsh steel companies and communities that depend on that sector, and we'll not stay silent if Wales is made to pay the price of an intervention elsewhere. But our message today is simple: we consent to this Bill, or we urge the Senedd to do so, because Wales must never again be told that the tools to save our steel do not exist. We consent to this legislation with our eyes open and with our conditions on the record: equal treatment, fair competition and a full Welsh voice whenever these powers touch the interests of our people. Thank you. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767934 469 En 2026-07-14T19:35:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=21902&l=en 260714-9 8. Legislative Consent Motion: Steel Industry (Nationalisation) Bill C 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767946 470 Cy 2026-07-14T00:00:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=-48598&l=en 260714-9 8. Legislative Consent Motion: Steel Industry (Nationalisation) Bill C 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767947 471 Cy 2026-07-14T00:00:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=-48598&l=en 260714-9 8. Legislative Consent Motion: Steel Industry (Nationalisation) Bill C 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767949 472 Cy 2026-07-14T00:00:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=-48598&l=en 260714-9 8. Legislative Consent Motion: Steel Industry (Nationalisation) Bill C 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767943 473 Cy 2026-07-14T19:37:04 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=22026&l=en 260714-9 8. Legislative Consent Motion: Steel Industry (Nationalisation) Bill C 5053 5053 Huw Irranca-Davies https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=5053 Llywydd Irranca-Davies, Huw Thank you, Cabinet Minister. The proposal is to agree the motion. Does any Member object? [Objection.] There is objection. I will therefore defer voting under this item until voting time. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767945 474 Cy 260714-9 8. Legislative Consent Motion: Steel Industry (Nationalisation) Bill I Voting deferred until voting time. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767948 475 En 2026-07-14T19:37:21 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=22043&l=en 260714-9 8. Legislative Consent Motion: Steel Industry (Nationalisation) Bill C 5053 5053 Huw Irranca-Davies https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=5053 Llywydd Irranca-Davies, Huw Now, as Members will have noticed, we have some technical issues at the moment. We'll need to suspend proceedings for around 10 minutes to resolve those technical issues. We will provide an update as soon as possible, and we will ring the bell five minutes before we reconvene. So, we'll suspend proceedings now, please. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767909 476 Cy 260714-9 8. Legislative Consent Motion: Steel Industry (Nationalisation) Bill I Plenary was suspended at 19:37. The Senedd reconvened at 19:47, with the Llywydd (Huw Irranca-Davies) in the Chair. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767937 477 Cy 2026-07-14T19:47:03 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=22625&l=en 260714-10 9. Debate: The First Supplementary Budget 2026-27 C 5053 5053 Huw Irranca-Davies https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=5053 Llywydd Irranca-Davies, Huw Welcome back. We now move to item 9, debate on the first supplementary budget 2026-27. I call on the Cabinet Minister for Finance to move the motion—Elin Jones. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767938 478 Cy 260714-10 9. Debate: The First Supplementary Budget 2026-27 I Motion NDM9261 Heledd Fychan To propose that the Senedd, in accordance with Standing Order 20.30, approves the First Supplementary Budget for the financial year 2026-27 laid in the Table Office on 23 June 2026. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767939 479 Cy 260714-10 9. Debate: The First Supplementary Budget 2026-27 I Motion moved. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767932 480 Cy 2026-07-14T19:47:23 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=22645&l=en 260714-10 9. Debate: The First Supplementary Budget 2026-27 C 162 162 Elin Jones https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=162 Cabinet Minister for Finance Jones, Elin Llywydd, I move the motion and open the debate on the Welsh Government's first supplementary budget for 2026-27. This supplementary budget is our first opportunity to propose changes to the full budget this year and to start the important process of ensuring that expenditure aligns with our priorities as a new Government. We are focusing, therefore, on a targeted allocation of resources and additional capital. This will enable us to make swift progress on our most important priorities as a Government, while also demonstrating that money is being managed prudently and that there is stability for public services and partners. Alongside this, as is usual in supplementary budgets, the budget makes formal adaptations to the general level of funds available to Wales in light of the spring statement and the main objectives of the UK Government for this financial year. It also includes a restatement of this year's final budget to reflect the new ministerial portfolios. Moving a first supplementary budget is an early mechanism in the financial year to set out formally changes to the annual budget. The second supplementary budget is the final opportunity to finally formalise the allocations towards the end of a financial year. This first supplementary budget therefore makes £433 million of additional allocations. This includes £294 million for Welsh Government priorities, and £139 million for budgetary responsibility transfers. The balance of £246 million in unallocated resources and £29,000 in general capital has been held in reserves in the first supplementary budget in order to manage in-year pressures and to respond to priorities. This unallocated funding is our protection against the financial position that we have inherited and against the significant financial pressures that are unfunded within the year, including a total of over £300 million of overspend that the health service is currently reporting. Managing these in-year pressures is a significant challenge, and that challenge is made more difficult because of the tight funding framework that we work within. The unallocated resources funding is there as reserves to be allocated later to help us manage the current pressures in the system, if necessary. We cannot allocate that funding in its entirety so early in the financial year. The previous Government made similar allocations to the NHS in supplementary budgets at the end of the financial year: £200 million in 2025-26, £424 million in 2023-24. The Welsh Government's settlement is directly linked, as we know, to decisions made by the UK Government. It can change, even in-year, up and down. Only a few days after I appeared before the Finance Committee, the UK Government announced its defence investment plan. That is expected to lead to a direct negative consequence for our capital budget this year. If the cut of 1 per cent anticipated hits all departments of Government equally, that will mean the loss of between £25 million and £30 million immediately during this financial year alone, and there is more to come. This is a supplementary budget. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767944 481 Cy 2026-07-14T19:50:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=22802&l=en 260714-10 9. Debate: The First Supplementary Budget 2026-27 C 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767960 482 En 2026-07-14T19:51:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=22862&l=en 260714-10 9. Debate: The First Supplementary Budget 2026-27 C 162 162 Elin Jones https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=162 Jones, Elin The clue's in the name.  16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767959 483 Cy 2026-07-14T19:51:01 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=22863&l=en 260714-10 9. Debate: The First Supplementary Budget 2026-27 C 162 162 Elin Jones https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=162 Jones, Elin It is supplementary to the budget that was presented and passed by the previous Labour Government. It was the deliberate decision of this Government to honour the spending commitments made by the previous Government, not to make changes to funding decisions made by Labour. In that context, I understand what the Conservatives have told me, that not changing the Labour budget makes it impossible for them to vote in favour of this supplementary budget today. I fully understand that. In addition, our decision too was to start to make some new spending commitments to align with the mandate that we received from the people of Wales through a national election. This budget, therefore, allocates £294 million, which is £164 million in resources and £130 million in capital, to support practical priorities that people can see and feel, as was voted for, such as reducing waiting times in the NHS, expanding funded childcare, ensuring that more pupils receive free school meals, more social homes, supporting transport and crucial maintenance work in our schools and hospitals. In many respects, these were priorities that were seen in the manifestos of other parties during the election period. Our intention is to invest £145 million in our health system to speed up access to treatment and to improve outcomes for the people of Wales. We are giving priority to providing additional funding to tackle child poverty and to help people across Wales with increasing costs of living, and are allocating an additional £55 million to start to deliver our commitment to transform childcare. This budget also provides £2 million to start to implement the Cynnal pilot scheme. That's an important first step in our broader mission to tackle the terrible scourge of child poverty. We are investing an additional £15 million in free school meals. That will enable us to start to extend provision from September onwards to pupils in secondary schools. We are also providing £40 million in additional capital to improve the standard of school buildings, and a further capital sum of £5 million will be provided towards the community facilities programme. The budget includes £2 million to help to introduce the new swimming and water safety programme for schools, and another £8 million to continue to provide £1 transport on buses for children and young people, and also £2 million in a bus service between north and south Wales along the western corridor, which doesn't have a train line. Everyone in Wales deserves a safe home that they can afford. That is why we are investing £20 million in capital to provide over 100 additional homes for social rent. The first supplementary budget is a routine part of the annual budgetary process. It provides assurances to our public services. It also ensures that members of Senedd committees in their scrutiny work can see clearly the changes to Government decisions in terms of income and expenditure. At this point, I would like to thank the Finance Committee for considering this supplementary budget in full and for publishing its report overnight. I have read the report this morning and I see value in its recommendations and I will try to respond positively to them, and I look forward to collaborating with the Finance Committee on refining our scrutiny and the budgetary process over the period of this Senedd. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767967 484 En 2026-07-14T19:54:38 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=23080&l=en 260714-10 9. Debate: The First Supplementary Budget 2026-27 C 162 162 Elin Jones https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=162 Jones, Elin As I've said, this is a supplementary budget. It does exactly that: it supplements a budget. This Government has honoured the previous Government's budget to the decimal point in order to provide continuity of delivery for our public sector and other partners. We added to that budget, but took nothing away. As the people of Wales would have expected of us in this supplementary budget, we have sought to allocate funding available to us on the priorities they voted for in May's election—on reducing NHS waiting times, on increasing affordable childcare, on tackling child poverty, on transport initiatives, and on a capital programme to improve school and hospital buildings and build new homes. I understand that Members, during the scrutiny of this budget, have sought to pursue the allocation of £344 million consequential funding for the debt write-off to English local authorities as a result of ALN historical overspends in England. This Government has sought to engage constructively on that issue. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767974 485 En 2026-07-14T19:55:42 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=23144&l=en 260714-10 9. Debate: The First Supplementary Budget 2026-27 C 162 162 Elin Jones https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=162 Jones, Elin It's not a surprise to me that a new party to this Senedd, Reform, would question why consequential funding is not merely passed on to the equivalent recipient in Wales, that this Senedd is merely a go-between. It suits their politics to neutralise this institution. But those of us who are pro-devolution, pro-standing up for the independence of this Senedd and our democratic right to make our own choices, I would expect us all to agree that it is for Welsh Ministers in this Senedd to decide how the Welsh budget is spent, and nothing should be presumed for Wales from an allocation happening in England to deal with English matters. For Wales, do not see England. From those early days of Edwina Hart as finance Minister and Rhodri Morgan as First Minister until today, this principle has been upheld by all Welsh Ministers and Governments. Now, I accept that some of you here who have called for the allocation of extra money related to ALN in England to be allocated to ALN in Wales may still support the right of this Senedd to take its own decisions. But I do say in response to that: beware of blurring these lines and diluting this principle. It's been well defended up until now, by my predecessors and yours. As a Government, however, we have listened to the genuine calls made by parties in the Senedd, councils and schools to increase the allocation for ALN this year, and have been developing a strategic approach to tackle fundamental challenges, as well as responding to immediate pressures. On the table, in real time, in this Chamber, in this moment is £40 million this financial year of additional funding for additional learning needs, which focuses on activities that are deliverable, including direct funding to schools to stabilise and shore up current provision, and which establishes a coherent national model for local authorities and schools to develop local responses in a consistent way. This allocation will be followed by £40 million next year and the following year to provide some certainty to the sector—a £120 million total package for ALN to ease the pressure on schools and councils and to place ALN on a more sustainable footing for future years. Passing this supplementary budget today will enable us to have assurance over the allocations to the outlined priorities of £294 million. That will enable us as a Government to carry a smaller risk in committing to allocating £40 million additionally to ALN this year. We will regularise this allocation in our second supplementary budget and include the allocations of £80 million to future annual budgets. If Members vote against or abstain on this budget today and it doesn't pass, the Government will be able to press ahead with the majority of our work and spending on our priorities at our own risk. But, due to the inherited in-year pressures, we will be unable to add to it another risk of £40 million spend. We will then only be able to use the funding allocated by the previous Government in its budget to ALN this year, with no £40 million uplift. However, we will continue to prepare for better future provision for ALN as part of our next year's budget planning. I ask Members to think carefully, in casting your vote today, of what can be gained and what can be lost. There's £164 million new spend on the NHS, childcare and travel opportunities for your constituents. There's £130 million additional capital money into schools, hospitals and housing. There's a £120 million package for councils and schools for ALN uplift. And to Labour specifically, we offer all of this and your previous Government's budget inherited by Plaid Cymru, its allocations honoured and wholly untouched. This supplementary budget is a good deal for this Senedd and, more importantly, it's a good deal for the people of Wales. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767950 486 En 2026-07-14T20:00:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=23402&l=en 260714-10 9. Debate: The First Supplementary Budget 2026-27 C 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767952 487 En 2026-07-14T20:00:03 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=23405&l=en 260714-10 9. Debate: The First Supplementary Budget 2026-27 C 5053 5053 Huw Irranca-Davies https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=5053 Llywydd Irranca-Davies, Huw Members may note that the electronic clock is not working.  16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767983 488 En 2026-07-14T20:00:07 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=23409&l=en 260714-10 9. Debate: The First Supplementary Budget 2026-27 C 162 162 Elin Jones https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=162 Jones, Elin No, I was looking for it. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767984 489 En 2026-07-14T20:00:08 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=23410&l=en 260714-10 9. Debate: The First Supplementary Budget 2026-27 C 5053 5053 Huw Irranca-Davies https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=5053 Llywydd Irranca-Davies, Huw As such, I will helpfully remind Members if they exceed the time. I ask Members to work with me; there are a lot of speakers down for this debate. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767955 490 Cy 2026-07-14T20:00:17 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=23419&l=en 260714-10 9. Debate: The First Supplementary Budget 2026-27 C 5053 5053 Huw Irranca-Davies https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=5053 Llywydd Irranca-Davies, Huw I call now on the Chair of the Finance Committee, Sam Rowlands. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767956 491 En 2026-07-14T20:00:22 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=23424&l=en 260714-10 9. Debate: The First Supplementary Budget 2026-27 C 8734 8734 Sam Rowlands https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=8734 Rowlands, Sam Diolch, Lywydd. I'm pleased to speak in this debate today on behalf of the Finance Committee. We had the privilege of scrutinising the first supplementary budget on 9 July and our report makes 22 recommendations. Today, I will focus on some of our key recommendations.  As we've heard, the supplementary budget that the committee scrutinised included £246 million of unallocated resource funding, which the Cabinet Minister said reflects substantial in-year pressures, particularly within the NHS. We recognise that there is always some uncertainty at this stage of the financial year and that Governments need a degree of flexibility to respond to emerging pressures, but the level of unallocated funding is considerably higher than in recent supplementary budgets. The committee noted that the average over the last four years has been £62 million and it's currently around four times higher than the average of the last four years. We want to better understand what pressures remain across Government and how those pressures differ from the normal challenges of managing a budget through the financial year. Turning to the management of NHS finances, this supplementary budget includes a £100 million allocation to tackle NHS waiting lists. The committee supports the Government's ambition to move beyond short-term interventions and deliver sustained improvement in NHS performance. And we heard the Cabinet Minister wants to focus on longer term outcomes rather than short-term monthly performance measures. We heard that the NHS is currently facing financial pressures of more than £300 million this year and that discussions with health boards are ongoing before further funding decisions are taken. However, what we did not hear in sufficient detail is how the approach of this Government differs from previous approaches that have also relied on significant in-year NHS allocation. That is why we asked the Cabinet Minister to detail the accountability mechanisms and measures in place to ensure the £100 million for reductions in waiting lists is used effectively, and to explain the practical differences between the previous approaches to NHS funding and the new Government's approach. We want to understand how these investments will drive sustainable improvement rather than short-term recovery measures. Moving on to the allocation of funding arising from the one-off special educational needs and disabilities consequential. Firstly, we recognise that the principle that Barnett consequentials do not have to be spent in the same way as funding allocated in England is an important principle. We also recognise the very real pressures facing additional learning needs services across Wales in the here and now. The Cabinet Minister told us that this one-off consequential has been absorbed into wider budget management. That inevitably raises questions about sustainability in other areas. We therefore ask her to explain how allocations enabled by this one-off consequential will be managed in future years, when that funding is no longer available. The Cabinet Minister told us the Government wants to work with local government and develop a more sustainable model for additional learning needs provision, recognising the significant pressure in the system. That is why we're seeking greater clarity on both the scale of the challenge and the Government's plan to manage these pressures. The committee noted the Government's plans to expand funded childcare. The supplementary budget includes £55 million to accelerate the roll-out of funded childcare for two-year-olds and to support the wider expansion of the childcare offer. We asked the Cabinet Minister to confirm how many places the £55 million allocation will support, what outcomes are expected from the funding and how those outcomes will be monitored and reported. We will now turn to capital budgets. The Government has chosen to allocate virtually all available capital funding at this stage of the year. We understand the rationale and recognise the benefits of allocating capital funding early to facilitate delivery and support economic activity, however, that approach also leaves limited flexibility should circumstances change. We're particularly concerned by reports that UK Government decisions associated with defence investment could have implications for Welsh capital budgets. We asked the Cabinet Minister to provide an assessment of the implications of the UK Government's defence investment plan and any consequences for Welsh Government capital budgets. Too often, debate focuses solely on the amounts of money being spent; the Finance Committee understands that what matters most is what that money delivers. We look forward to the Cabinet Minister's response and to continue our scrutiny of these issues as the financial year progresses. Diolch, Lywydd. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767966 492 En 2026-07-14T20:04:49 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=23691&l=en 260714-10 9. Debate: The First Supplementary Budget 2026-27 C 12174 12174 Cai Parry-Jones https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12174 Parry-Jones, Cai Minister, this is a minority Government and, over the last few weeks, this Senedd has demonstrated that Plaid cannot simply assume that others will just fall into line and vote with them. If the Government wants to secure the support of this Chamber, it must be prepared to build the consensus across political divides and to listen to those who represent different viewpoints. Every one of us in this Chamber has been elected to represent our constituents and to honour the mandate they have given us. Our responsibility is not to make life easier for the Government, but to ensure that the voices of the people we represent are heard in this place. In Reform, our position has been clear from the outset. We have three simple red lines to ensure that we support a budget that actually puts Wales first. I'd like to first say that none of those red lines is directly copying what England are doing with the ALN funding, so I look forward to her apology for the comments she initially made regarding Reform's position. The first red line is we called for international spending to be brought to an end, so that those millions of pounds could instead be invested here in Wales, as they always should have been. The Welsh Government budget was always intended to be spent in Wales. Secondly, we called for greater investment in our home-grown NHS staff. It is unacceptable that newly qualified Welsh nurses are completing their training only to find there are too few opportunities for them to work in the NHS here in Wales. We invested in training these professionals, yet this year, nearly 400 nurses and midwives could not find jobs in the NHS after initial job allocations. Coincidentally, the Welsh Government has hired at least 500 nurses and other medical professionals from India through the Wales in India initiative. Thirdly, we highlighted, as other parties have, the urgent need for greater support for the additional learning needs system. There is no excuse for not being aware of this strain, even before we all highlighted it to you. Concerns have been raised about these financial pressures from Audit Wales to local councils to school leaders. Unfortunately, on the first two priorities, the Government has failed to act. On additional learning needs, while the Government has acknowledged the issue, what has been offered to local councils is only a fraction of what is required for our schools. It falls well short of the level of support that school leaders have been calling for. It is clear that rather than attempting to fix the system, this is an offer designed to secure political support, treating disabled children like a political football, and I know my colleague will touch on this later. Llywydd, at the election, Reform became the largest opposition group in the history of the Senedd. That was not an accident. It reflected the desire of many people across Wales for a different approach and for different voices to be heard in Welsh politics. We were not elected to wave through Government budgets that, in our view, fail to deliver for the people of Wales. We were elected to hold the Government to account and to argue for policies that reflect the mandate we have received. The people who sent us here expect us to stand by our principles, and that is exactly what we're doing today. The majority of people in Wales did not vote for Plaid's manifesto, and the majority of the Members of the Senedd were not elected on its programme. The proportional representation system that Plaid helped to design was always going to result in a minority Government. You knew you needed to seek collaboration. From the very first sitting in this Senedd, Reform has made it clear that we are prepared to work constructively with Members from across the political spectrum where proposals genuinely benefit the people of Wales. That offer still remains on the table, but that offer requires collaboration, not the expectation that an opposition party will sheepishly support a budget that fails to deliver for their voters. And for these reasons, Llywydd, Reform will be voting against the supplementary budget. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767958 493 En 2026-07-14T20:09:57 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=23999&l=en 260714-10 9. Debate: The First Supplementary Budget 2026-27 C 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767942 494 En 2026-07-14T20:05:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=23702&l=en 260714-10 9. Debate: The First Supplementary Budget 2026-27 C 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767951 495 Cy 2026-07-14T20:09:17 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=23959&l=en 260714-10 9. Debate: The First Supplementary Budget 2026-27 C 12156 12156 Huw Thomas https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12156 Thomas, Huw Before I go into details on the position of Welsh Labour, I want to thank Elin Jones for her engagement with me on the supplementary budget, and I do hope that she knows of the respect that my colleagues and I have for her. I suspect that if she'd had more freedom to negotiate we wouldn't be in the situation that we're in today. Unfortunately, I fear that there are others in Plaid Cymru who thought that they didn't need to negotiate, or they preferred to do that through attacking videos on Facebook and briefings to the media. In looking to the process for next year's budget, I do hope that the Government will reflect on how to avoid the disorder seen over the last three weeks. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767877 496 En 2026-07-14T20:10:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=24002&l=en 260714-10 9. Debate: The First Supplementary Budget 2026-27 C 12156 12156 Huw Thomas https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12156 Thomas, Huw Welsh Labour's red lines on the supplementary budget have been clear from the outset: a substantial contribution for additional learning needs in our schools, utilising some—not all, some—of the consequential made available by the UK Government spend in this area in England. Plaid Cymru's initial proposals contained not one penny for ALN. This fact is made very clear by the concerns raised in the Finance Committee report. A petition on this issue attracted 11,000 signatures in two weeks. And in the end, seven days ago, Plaid finally put some money on the table. We are clear this is not enough, but this is not our view alone. As has been said before, Welsh councils are united on how the pressures from ALN in schools are real and urgent. Many of us will have received correspondence from school leaders, outlining the immediate difference extra real funding could make, and we are all aware of the concerns felt by teaching unions. Extraordinarily, overnight, the two teaching unions that represent school leaders, the NAHT and ASCL, have written jointly to Welsh Government to state that they are now in formal dispute with the Government over the issue of pay and ALN funding. These aren't militant unions. They're not affiliated with the Labour Party. In fact, one of them used to be led by the education Minister. So, how has it come to this, just 64 days into a new Plaid Cymru Government, where two large, well-respected unions are having to ask for the intervention of an independent conciliation body to mediate its dealing with Welsh Government? It's unprecedented. It's a failure of social partnership, and it says very clearly that the supplementary budget, as proposed, isn't good enough. Not our assessment; the blunt assessment of teachers, school leaders and their representatives. I heard the Trefnydd's response to Lynne Neagle earlier in the business statement. It sounded to me very much like the response of a Government that's stopped listening. Let me spell it out. Forty million pounds in one year is a bad deal. Forty million pounds in the second year, when it's been eroded by inflation and demand growth, is a bad deal. Forty million pounds in the third year, when £200 million of further recurring consequential become available from ALN spend in England, is a ridiculous deal. No financially literate party could sign up to it. Llywydd, this Senedd Labour group is returning to our party's foundational mission, being the political representation of organised labour in the nation and being the voice of the most vulnerable in our society. You will understand, therefore, given the fundamental and formal concerns that unions have regarding these proposals, how we simply cannot support the supplementary budget as it currently stands. There are some on the Plaid benches that are avowed socialists. Here is an early test for you: will you blindly follow your party's whip, or will you vote with our pupils and our teachers? And let's also be clear, Llywydd—[Interruption.] Let's also be clear— 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767894 497 En 2026-07-14T20:13:08 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=24190&l=en 260714-10 9. Debate: The First Supplementary Budget 2026-27 C 5053 5053 Huw Irranca-Davies https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=5053 Llywydd Irranca-Davies, Huw Huw, my apologies. My apologies. It is sometimes challenging to hear contributions in the Chamber. Please if you can keep the noise down so we can hear.  16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767897 498 En 2026-07-14T20:13:19 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=24201&l=en 260714-10 9. Debate: The First Supplementary Budget 2026-27 C 12156 12156 Huw Thomas https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12156 Thomas, Huw I will raise my voice, Llywydd. Let's be clear on the implications for additional spending on NHS waiting lists. We support these proposals. They are, after all, the continuation of the successful policy that the last Welsh Government adopted. You do not need a supplementary budget in place to spend in this area. You can carry on the investment now and regularise that spend later in the year. Fearmongering that this money is at risk simply does not bear informed scrutiny. And as to the suggestion that if the supplementary budget failed, there would be no money given to ALN at a later date, if that's accurate then it's pernicious, it's vindictive and it's going to lead to widespread industrial action. The supplementary budget before us has £0.25 billion of unallocated financial resources. I've outlined before, the Chair of the Finance Committee has repeated it: that's not normal. You could use £100 million, as we've requested for ALN, and still have a substantial cushion to manage in-year spending pressures. Llywydd, we genuinely tried to warn the Government that they were headed for the rocks. My advice now is just as genuine: withdraw the supplementary budget today, negotiate with the teaching unions to resolve this dispute you've blundered into, and then bring back a supplementary budget that actually starts to meet the asks of pupils and teachers. When you do, we'll be here waiting, ready to vote for it. Diolch yn fawr. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767906 499 En 2026-07-14T20:14:46 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=24288&l=en 260714-10 9. Debate: The First Supplementary Budget 2026-27 C 171 171 Darren Millar https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=171 Millar, Darren Well, Llywydd, former US President Lyndon B. Johnson once said that the first rule of politics is to be able to count. It's a simple rule, but it's one that the Cabinet Minister for Finance clearly didn't think about when she was putting her supplementary budget together. We were, of course, expecting Labour to capitulate, but the feud between the two left-wing parties in the Senedd appears to be continuing. But the political reality is this: the arithmetic—[Interruption.] I'll happily take an intervention. Give me one second. The political reality is this: the arithmetic in this Senedd means that Welsh Government budgets and Welsh Government legislation cannot be agreed without cross-party agreement. You have to secure a majority of the votes cast. That agreement has not been secured, and it's bonkers to bring something to the Senedd for a vote without securing it. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767892 500 En 2026-07-14T20:15:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=24302&l=en 260714-10 9. Debate: The First Supplementary Budget 2026-27 C 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767895 501 En 2026-07-14T20:15:41 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=24343&l=en 260714-10 9. Debate: The First Supplementary Budget 2026-27 C 332 332 Mike Hedges https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=332 Hedges, Mike I agree with your last point, Darren. What I don't agree with is describing Plaid Cymru as a left-wing party.  16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767896 502 En 2026-07-14T20:15:56 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=24358&l=en 260714-10 9. Debate: The First Supplementary Budget 2026-27 C 171 171 Darren Millar https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=171 Millar, Darren Mike, your comments are noted. So, that agreement—[Interruption.] 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767898 503 En 2026-07-14T20:16:12 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=24374&l=en 260714-10 9. Debate: The First Supplementary Budget 2026-27 C 5053 5053 Huw Irranca-Davies https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=5053 Llywydd Irranca-Davies, Huw Could I just remind Members—? I understand that people want to contribute. We also want to hear the speakers, and people outside this Chamber are watching proceedings. We need to hear what the speakers are saying. Darren Millar. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767899 504 En 2026-07-14T20:16:29 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=24391&l=en 260714-10 9. Debate: The First Supplementary Budget 2026-27 C 171 171 Darren Millar https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=171 Millar, Darren Budgets are about priorities, they're about choices, and I'm afraid that this supplementary budget gets those things wrong. As the Cabinet Minister herself said, this budget honours the previous Welsh budget to the decimal point. And that's the point. That's why we disagree with it, because we disagreed with the previous Welsh Government's budget as well, for the same fundamental reasons that we disagree with this one. You bleated on yet again today about the £300 million in-year pressures that you are facing as a Welsh Government. Well, that's because of the budget that you signed up to as a party in the last Senedd earlier this year. So you can't bleat about it when you fixed this previous budget from which you and the Welsh public and our Welsh public services are now facing the consequences. And I'm sorry, but it really does make me irate when I hear people complaining about decisions to invest in our defence industry to keep our country safe, which is what you implied earlier on about the decision being taken by the UK Government. I'm no friend of the UK Government, but I support investment in our defence industry because we need to make sure that we keep our country safe. And what we really need to do to pay for that is to cut welfare bills, get people back into work, and people off the benefits system. We all know that you've got over £400 million to spend, £327 million-worth of that is due to additional learning needs spend in England, yet not a single penny in your supplementary budget was being allocated to that spending line today. And I know there's been some discussion between you and the Labour Party, but not a single penny in your original supplementary budget proposals was being allocated to additional learning needs. I think that is appalling. I really do think that's appalling, especially when all of us in this Chamber, especially those who've been here for a long time, know full well the pressures that those schools are facing, know full well the pressures that parents are facing not getting the support for their children. It's not good enough, and we need to shift the dial. Patients need the dial shifting too, and we need some honesty from the Minister about the funding for the NHS. You've talked about the additional resources that are available for health in the supplementary budget, but the reality of this budget before us today is that the NHS budget is still being cut in real terms. That is shameful. You're cutting the NHS budget at a time when demand is rising and pressures are growing when compared to the previous financial year. It's a statement of fact, First Minister. Would you like to get your calculator out? I'm happy to lend you mine if you want. People in Wales want to be treated in a hospital bed, not a corridor. They want an ambulance to come on time if they pick up the phone and it's an emergency. They want to get an NHS dentist. They want to be able to get an appointment the same day that they phone their local GP. They can't at the moment, and that's why we need to invest in our NHS, not cut the NHS budget, which is what your supplementary budget is still allowing for, even though there's extra cash available that you could be allocating. There's also very little in this budget to help people with the rising cost of living. Where's the action to help people keep their council tax bills down, which have been spiralling out of control year in, year out? Where's the support for businesses in Wales, who are struggling with those sharp increases in their business rates? Where's the support for pubs? Where's the support for our high streets? Where's the extra finance for our hospice and palliative sector, which is crying out for sustainable funding? And where's the support for our farming industry as well? We need to make sure that supplementary budgets reflect the views and the wills of the people of Wales. But most of all, you've got that fundamental problem with the original budget, which you signed up to earlier in the year and you're now carping on about. We'll be voting against this supplementary budget today.  16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767902 505 En 2026-07-14T20:20:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=24602&l=en 260714-10 9. Debate: The First Supplementary Budget 2026-27 C 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767904 506 Cy 2026-07-14T20:20:52 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=24654&l=en 260714-10 9. Debate: The First Supplementary Budget 2026-27 C 12165 12165 Elfed Williams https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12165 Williams, Elfed As someone who was a county councillor until recently, I can attest to how important it is to pass this supplementary budget today in order to address the challenges facing local government. Labour has made much over the last few weeks of the need to see urgent investment in ALN services, and everyone recognises that. It is therefore strange to hear today that they intend to vote against the budget, despite the fact that there is more money for ALN services in this budget than they themselves had originally called for. I'm sure that the families, teachers and pupils, who are calling for the same investment, will find that strange and frustrating too. Beyond the funding for ALN services, the supplementary budget also ensures additional investment for expanding free school meals and improving the condition of our schools. I am sure that everyone across the Chamber shares the same desire to see pupils with full stomachs learning in schools that are fit for purpose. But, by voting against the budget today, we are preventing that investment from reaching our schools as soon as possible, and it is the pupils and teachers who will miss out. Llywydd, it is not just the additional direct funding that is essential for the sustainability of our local authorities. The additional investment of £145 million in the health service takes pressure off care services. The £55 million for childcare creates local jobs and helps parents back into work in order to strengthen our local economy. And the £8 million for the bus travel scheme for young people improves connectivity and enables our young people to socialise and make use of local resources. In conclusion, Llywydd, the vote before us tonight asks a relatively simple question, really: do we want to see a sustainable health service? Do we want to give every child across Wales the best start? And do we want to support all pupils to realise their potential and all teachers to enjoy their work? We can only do that by passing the budget before us, and I encourage all Members to support it. Thank you. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767905 507 En 2026-07-14T20:23:50 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=24832&l=en 260714-10 9. Debate: The First Supplementary Budget 2026-27 C 12147 12147 Dan Thomas https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=12147 Thomas, Dan How on earth, as a party that talks about consensus, mature politics and compromise, has it managed to unite most of this Chamber against it? It doesn't bode well for the future. It's going to be a very long Senedd if this is how Plaid Cymru do Government. This supplementary budget could have been an opportunity to right the wrongs of the past Labour Government, to safeguard jobs for student nurses and student midwives. It could have been an opportunity to offer ALN a lot more funding than Plaid Cymru is offering right now. On page 39 of Plaid's manifesto, it says that 'A Plaid Cymru government will address key challenges in the Additional Learning Needs (ALN) system in Wales'. But today, Plaid are asking us to vote for a budget that rejects an opportunity to give a huge boost to ALN children, and that is what this Chamber is asking for. It's about time that ALN and education had a significant boost given the educational outcomes in Wales. They are way behind the rest of the UK. Education, quite frankly, has always been a poor relation to the NHS, the budget of which now takes up half the Welsh Government's expenditure, so this would've been an opportunity to rebalance the funding across services in the two main spending areas in Wales. But the truth is that Plaid are using a windfall of consequential funding to plug a financial black hole hidden in its manifesto. It's being used to help fund the first phases of implementation, and without this windfall, Plaid would've been lost. We aren't expecting the entire Government budget to be rewritten, although it is not unusual for new UK Governments—indeed, Governments across the world—to issue wide-ranging budgets a few months after they've been elected and taken office. But to limit this supplementary budget to the lines table demonstrates a very low appetite to do things differently. Plaid will say that the allocation of moneys reflects their manifesto priorities, but funding their commitments largely from a one-off windfall is not sustainable, and there is a significant lack of detail as to how that funding will make a real impact on the day-to-day lives of the Welsh people. How will it make a difference? What improvements will we see and when? Llywydd, it is not just the budget numbers that don't add up; the votes are not adding up for Plaid either this evening. The Tories and Labour have said they'll oppose this budget, so assuming that there's not a secret deal struck at the eleventh hour, this budget will fall. And it will fall because Plaid are being incredibly stubborn over an amount of money that its First Minister has previously labelled 'small change'. Reform is willing to offer Plaid Cymru a lifeline, and it will only cost you some small change, as you call it—the small change needed to guarantee student nurses a job; some small change taken back from overseas ventures and ploughed back into Welsh public services; and some serious small change to make a huge investment into ALN, which is badly needed. And after all, that is why we have this consequential funding coming to Wales. If Plaid can commit to those commonsense priorities, priorities that have a huge amount of support across Wales, I'm sure that we can go into recess on a high note. But if you lose this vote, you will have tripped at the very first, very low hurdle. We will be heading into the summer questioning whether this Government has the ability and the support to continue leading Wales. Plaid will need to have a long, hard think over the summer and come back willing to compromise. Diolch. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767891 508 En 2026-07-14T20:25:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=24902&l=en 260714-10 9. Debate: The First Supplementary Budget 2026-27 C 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767900 509 En 2026-07-14T20:27:52 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=25074&l=en 260714-10 9. Debate: The First Supplementary Budget 2026-27 C 174 174 Lynne Neagle https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=174 Neagle, Lynne As my colleague Huw Thomas said, the Labour Members will be voting against the supplementary budget today. I want to be clear that I take absolutely no pleasure in this situation. This has always been and will always be about getting more funding for children and young people with ALN in Wales. I respectfully remind all the Plaid Cymru backbenchers who have made videos and statements over the weekend attacking Labour for our stance that there was not one single penny for additional learning needs in the supplementary budget until we in the Labour group started pushing for it. Not a single penny. As a result of the discussions this week, the Plaid Cymru minority Government has offered just £40 million for ALN this year, just 12 per cent of the consequential received as a result of the SEND announcement in England. Our view is that that is not enough. Yes, we need to invest in the transformation of ALN. That was one of the main findings of the ALN legislative review I commissioned and was something I was working on before the election. But we cannot do that without acknowledging and addressing the massive pressures that are in the system now, today. It is disingenuous of the Trefnydd, the First Minister and other Plaid Cymru Members to say that this was more than the money we put on the table, because the ALN consequentials were only announced in March, after the final budget was passed. So, it could not be allocated without a supplementary budget. Notwithstanding that, I've already told the Chamber that I asked for £100 million to be earmarked for ALN. That was the advice received from officials, the amount that we could spend in year. It's not just Welsh Labour who don't think £40 million is enough; every local authority of every political colour has called for more funding for ALN. And now we've heard from our trade union partners. The National Education Union has said they welcome the additional funding, but, based on their evidence from members, this doesn't go far enough and more money needs to be spent. As I highlighted earlier, the National Association of Head Teachers and the Association of School and College Leaders have taken the unprecedented step of declaring a trade dispute with Welsh Government, citing ALN investment as one of the reasons. They are well aware of the latest offer from the Welsh Government. It is shocking that so early in this Senedd term the Government are in dispute with school leaders in Wales. Now, I recognise that Plaid Cymru won the election and are the biggest party, but you are still a minority party, and the way you have conducted some of the negotiations with my party does not bode well for the rest of this Senedd term. There have been some constructive discussions, but there have also been ultimata and negotiations conducted through the media and social media. I really wanted to get to a position where we could support your budget. Just this afternoon, we have asked the Government to withdraw the budget so we can continue negotiations and enable the Government to address the concerns of the teaching unions. If this budget does not pass today, it will be because of your intransigence. The finance Minister—[Interruption.] The finance Minister has told the Chamber today that even if the budget doesn't pass, you will still be able to spend the money on your priorities, but that you won't spend money on ALN. Now, that will be your choice and, if I can say so, it will be an act of supreme spite. I have heard the heckles all afternoon from this Government that we are voting with Reform. That is beneath you on an issue of this importance, and it's a sign that you cannot win the argument. So, I want to be clear: we are not voting with Reform, we are not voting with the Welsh Conservatives; we are voting with children and young people with additional learning needs, and we are voting for the school staff who support them, in the belief that those children and those school staff deserve more from this Plaid Cymru Government. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767957 510 En 2026-07-14T20:30:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=25202&l=en 260714-10 9. Debate: The First Supplementary Budget 2026-27 C 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767962 511 Cy 2026-07-14T20:33:03 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=25385&l=en 260714-10 9. Debate: The First Supplementary Budget 2026-27 C 5053 5053 Huw Irranca-Davies https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=5053 Llywydd Irranca-Davies, Huw Sera Evans, as Chair of the Early Years, Children, Young People and Education Committee. Sera. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767964 512 Cy 2026-07-14T20:33:09 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=25391&l=en 260714-10 9. Debate: The First Supplementary Budget 2026-27 C 330 330 Sera Evans https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=330 Evans, Sera Thank you, Llywydd. As noted, this is the first time that I have spoken in a Plenary debate in my capacity as Chair of the Early Years, Children, Young People and Education Committee. The committee discussed the supplementary budget as it relates to its remit at its first meeting on 8 July. The committee agreed to write to the Minister for finance, and that letter was published on Monday. During our discussions regarding our programme of work, it became clear that additional learning needs are a key priority for the committee. The committee noted its disappointment that none of the money allocated as part of the supplementary budget was allocated for ALN, as was the case at the time. Members of the committee noted that schools and local authorities are facing significant funding pressures in terms of ALN, and there is a need to address those pressures. The committee also asked for a timetable for the sustainable longer term funding plan for ALN. The committee would like more clarity regarding other key areas, such as free school meals, childcare and children's health. Regarding free school meals, we are seeking clarity regarding the assumptions that underpin pupil numbers and the unit rate associated with the expansion of the free school meals programme as well, please. Regarding childcare, the committee would like clearer data on the progress being made in terms of delivering the current 12.5 hours of childcare under the Flying Start programme for all two-year-olds throughout Wales, so that we can see what is left to deliver and how much this will cost. The committee is also eager to scrutinise the impact of health expenditure on children and young people specifically. As part of this, we need assurance that children will benefit from the additional funding for the NHS allocated in the supplementary budget. The committee was relatively supportive of the allocation in terms of health, but it would like to understand the impact of the investments on children specifically. In addition, we would like some clarity regarding the expected impact on paediatric services and waiting times as a result of the investment. Thank you. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767954 513 Cy 2026-07-14T20:35:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=25502&l=en 260714-10 9. Debate: The First Supplementary Budget 2026-27 C 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767968 514 Cy 2026-07-14T20:35:39 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=25541&l=en 260714-10 9. Debate: The First Supplementary Budget 2026-27 C 5053 5053 Huw Irranca-Davies https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=5053 Llywydd Irranca-Davies, Huw Thank you. James Evans, as Chair of the Climate Change, Environment, Sustainability and Rural Affairs Committee. James Evans. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767969 515 En 2026-07-14T20:35:50 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=25552&l=en 260714-10 9. Debate: The First Supplementary Budget 2026-27 C 8585 8585 James Evans https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=8585 Evans, James Diolch, Lywydd. I'm pleased to make my first contribution in this Chamber in my capacity as Chair of the Climate Change, Environment, Sustainability and Rural Affairs Committee. Financial scrutiny is an important function carried out by policy committees, alongside our work on policy and legislation. It is essential that we examine how public money is allocated and whether spending decisions support the delivery of Welsh Government priorities within our remit. The committee's role is not simply to note budget changes, but to seek transparency and ensure accountability for the Welsh Government expenditure. We therefore decided at the committee's first formal meeting on 8 July to consider the first supplementary budget as part of that work. We also noted the relevance of the Welsh Government's 100-day priorities in areas within our remit. We are particularly interested in understanding how commitments related to nature recovery, flood resilience, coal-tip safety, the sustainable farming scheme, rural-proofing and the national food strategy will be funded and delivered in practice. These are substantial policy commitments and they raise important questions for financial scrutiny. Will they be delivered from existing budgets or will they require additional expenditure? As no additional money has been provided in the supplementary budget, are we going to have further allocations expected in the draft budget for 2027-28? We have also written to the Cabinet Minister for Finance seeking answers to these questions and clarification on a number of issues. For example, we would welcome further information on the Welsh Government's energy service budget line and the decision to retain it within the rural resilience and sustainability main expenditure group. Despite responsibility for energy policy and strategy sitting elsewhere, it's important that budget structures and ministerial responsibilities are clear and transparent. We have also raised why there are no major changes to the rural resilience and sustainability MEG, apart from the funding linked to Great British Energy, and whether the relevant Government department saw any additional resources during the supplementary budget process, and if not, why not? We further asked the Welsh Government to explain why there is no additional funding for biodiversity within the supplementary budget. Our predecessor committee raised concerns that Wales is currently not on track to meet the 30x30 target and recommended increases in allocations in this area in light of nature decline. Against that backdrop, the fact that there is no change to biodiversity allocations raises questions about whether existing funding is enough to deliver meaningful progress on whether actions will be needed to avoid Wales missing these targets. As Chair, and I know the committee will agree with me, we look forward to continuing the committee's scrutiny of these issues and to considering the Government's response to our questions. While the supplementary budget contains limited changes in the areas within the committee's remit, it also provides an important opportunity to question how the Welsh Government's commitments will be funded and delivered, and to ensure that resources are directed effectively towards climate, environmental sustainability and rural challenges facing Wales. Diolch yn fawr. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767972 516 En 2026-07-14T20:38:43 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=25725&l=en 260714-10 9. Debate: The First Supplementary Budget 2026-27 C 5025 5025 Anthony Slaughter https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=5025 Slaughter, Anthony Firstly, we acknowledge and appreciate that a supplementary budget like this is not the ideal time to make substantial changes. Also, we're aware of the tightening fiscal environment and an inherited budget legacy. We have an ongoing shortfall in educational funding; that much is obvious. Whilst the £120 million allocation of additional funding for additional learning needs won't solve all the challenges it faces, to reject it as part of the supplementary budget would be to play politics with school funding. Unlike others in the Chamber, we won't be using this as a political football to gain some illusion of control. There is strong consensus among many in this Chamber about what we could do and what we can work to deliver for the people of Wales. It is time we genuinely worked together collaboratively and co-operatively to deliver these. Additional healthcare funding and the shift towards primary care is a step in the right direction, as is the £20 million capital funding for social housing. The housing crisis is a health crisis, and we know, as does the Government, that collective solutions will be more cost-effective, helping those who need it most, where they need it most, in their homes. This is something we will expect to see prominently feature in the next budget. Likewise, noting the £1 bus fare provision, we want to see investment in public transport go further, with cleaner, integrated, sustainable travel putting money back into people's pockets as well as addressing the urgent need to transition away from fossil fuels. On climate, I'd like now to move to the most glaring omission in this supplementary budget. There is a small, but welcome, uplift in both resource and capital allowances to develop and implement climate change policy, green growth and environmental protection. But this funding is apparently ring-fenced for the Welsh Government energy service, not to address the climate change mitigation and adaptation. The Met Office yesterday released data showing that more than 2,700 people are thought to have died from heat-related causes during the May and June heatwaves in England and Wales. Of those, almost half died as a result of the extra heat caused by human-induced warming. The authors of this report said: 'It's time we woke up to the fact that we now live in a country with dangerously hot summers. To protect people during future extremes, we must urgently adapt'. Our summers are 3-4 degrees Celsius hotter than they would have been without human-induced climate change. Last month, 35.9 degrees Celsius was recorded at Bute Park in Cardiff, breaking the previous June record of 33.7 degrees Celsius, set in 2000. That week, children were sent home from school. As a country, we are incredibly underprepared. The UK Climate Change Committee's recent climate risk assessment found that critical action was needed in Wales to address health risks from heat. It estimates that UK-wide heat deaths could increase from around 1,400 to between 3,000 and 10,000 in the 2050s without further adaptation. The health toll is rising and it's costing lives. This week, as was mentioned earlier today, North Wales Fire and Rescue Service have been tackling a major incident with the outbreak of wildfires near Conwy mountain. Families are having to flee their homes to safety. This is a frightening situation for all involved, and our thoughts are with anyone impacted by this devastating situation. Having declared a climate emergency all those years ago, where is the action to treat the situation as the genuine crisis that it is? For the people of Wales, these issues cannot wait until the next budget, or the next one. The climate change action fund has not changed but the reality of the situation has. Where will the money come from to address this unfolding crisis? The Government must provide assurances that climate mitigation and adaptation will be given the necessary prominence it needs, going forward, and within the next budget. Finally, I'd like to say, as a Member of a party that never whips its Members in any Parliament, we will be voting to support this budget. I believe that to do otherwise would be an irresponsible dereliction of duty. Diolch. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767998 517 En 2026-07-14T20:40:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=25802&l=en 260714-10 9. Debate: The First Supplementary Budget 2026-27 C 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 768006 518 En 2026-07-14T20:43:25 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=26007&l=en 260714-10 9. Debate: The First Supplementary Budget 2026-27 C 5053 5053 Huw Irranca-Davies https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=5053 Llywydd Irranca-Davies, Huw Diolch. We've had many Members put in to speak in this debate, but, unfortunately, we will not be able to call everybody. We're up against time. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 768007 519 Cy 2026-07-14T20:43:35 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=26017&l=en 260714-10 9. Debate: The First Supplementary Budget 2026-27 C 5053 5053 Huw Irranca-Davies https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=5053 Llywydd Irranca-Davies, Huw I call on the Cabinet Minister to reply to the debate. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 768008 520 En 2026-07-14T20:43:42 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=26024&l=en 260714-10 9. Debate: The First Supplementary Budget 2026-27 C 162 162 Elin Jones https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=162 Cabinet Minister for Finance Jones, Elin Diolch, Lywydd. Thank you for the range of views on this supplementary budget from across the political parties, Members, and also for the questions and contributions from committee Chairs and committee members as well. To Reform, thank you for outlining your three red lines. We don't agree with your first red line, but we are working on your other two red lines. Part of that is in this budget and part of that is in the work that the health Minister is doing.  To the Conservatives, I can, as I said, see the logic to part of your reasoning in opposing the previous Government's budget, as restated in this budget. And just to Darren, I can count; a good state school education made sure of that.  I thank the Green Party for your support, unwhipped as it is, and your challenge to us in that contribution to do more on climate change.  To Labour—and I'll start by saying that you're lucky, Huw, that I'm old enough to pass over a slightly condescending comment on my influence in Government—however, I'm totally flabbergasted by Labour. Today, you have had the opportunity to support a £120 million ALN support package for our schools and councils. [Interruption.] You could have—[Interruption.] Did you put your name forward to speak in the debate? Go on, then, you're the leader of your group. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767980 521 En 2026-07-14T20:45:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=26102&l=en 260714-10 9. Debate: The First Supplementary Budget 2026-27 C 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767996 522 Cy 2026-07-14T20:46:23 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=26185&l=en 260714-10 9. Debate: The First Supplementary Budget 2026-27 C 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767985 523 En 2026-07-14T20:45:25 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=26127&l=en 260714-10 9. Debate: The First Supplementary Budget 2026-27 C 267 267 Ken Skates https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=267 Skates, Ken I can predict what you're going to say now, but just let me read what your leader said in March 2025 in response to the then finance Minister, Mark Drakeford. 'The Cabinet Secretary is suggesting that by voting against a flawed budget as a whole, Plaid Cymru is voting against individual spending decisions.' 'this is a spurious argument.' 'What we're saying today is that whilst we can agree with elements of the budget...this is a flawed Labour budget and that is why we'll vote against it today.' 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767994 524 En 2026-07-14T20:45:53 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=26155&l=en 260714-10 9. Debate: The First Supplementary Budget 2026-27 C 162 162 Elin Jones https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=162 Jones, Elin But you are rejecting the deal that would have secured £120 million additional spending on additional learning needs, as you brought to the table. So, I remain, despite that contribution, totally flabbergasted. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767995 525 En 2026-07-14T20:46:12 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=26174&l=en 260714-10 9. Debate: The First Supplementary Budget 2026-27 C 332 332 Mike Hedges https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=332 Hedges, Mike If you offer £120 million this year, I can guarantee Labour will vote for it. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767997 526 En 2026-07-14T20:46:25 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=26187&l=en 260714-10 9. Debate: The First Supplementary Budget 2026-27 C 162 162 Elin Jones https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=162 Jones, Elin The ALN budget ask was brought to the negotiating table by Labour. I accept and respect that, Lynne. That's what a three-week scrutiny process allows to happen. Between a draft budget and the final vote on the budget, it can be improved. And we have moved and engaged on the detail of the proposal with you. And our education Minister was, as you know, keen to have your support to commence this additional budget for ALN as soon as possible. Schools would have returned in September with this new ALN funding ready to be rolled out—£40 million this year, followed by at least another £80 million over the next two years. Defeating this supplementary budget today will mean that this Government will continue without an early supplementary budget. We will carry on to spend in line with the annual budget passed in January. We will be able to continue to roll out the work on NHS waiting lists, increasing free childcare, free school meals and swimming lessons and £1 bus fares, and to boost capital spend on schools, hospitals, social housing and community facilities, all within the spending profiles already passed by this Senedd in the budget in January. But we will not be able to do that and add an in-year additional allocation of £40 million for additional learning needs, because we will not have an assurance of a supplementary budget. That's not spite, Lynne—that is prudent budget management within this financial year. But this Government is keen to improve on the previous Government's allocation to ALN and to work with schools and councils on a long-term stabilisation plan for ALN. We will now move on to this work in the context of our first annual budget. Somehow—[Interruption.] Ah, you're timing me now. You didn't time me in the first contribution, so I have no idea how much time I took. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767999 527 En 2026-07-14T20:48:22 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=26304&l=en 260714-10 9. Debate: The First Supplementary Budget 2026-27 C 5053 5053 Huw Irranca-Davies https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=5053 Llywydd Irranca-Davies, Huw Well, I do, indeed, and I'm giving you some latitude. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 768000 528 En 2026-07-14T20:48:28 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=26310&l=en 260714-10 9. Debate: The First Supplementary Budget 2026-27 C 162 162 Elin Jones https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=162 Jones, Elin Yes, you've got to give me time. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 768001 529 Cy 2026-07-14T20:48:29 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=26311&l=en 260714-10 9. Debate: The First Supplementary Budget 2026-27 C 5053 5053 Huw Irranca-Davies https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=5053 Llywydd Irranca-Davies, Huw Go on. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 768002 530 En 2026-07-14T20:48:30 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=26312&l=en 260714-10 9. Debate: The First Supplementary Budget 2026-27 C 5053 5053 Huw Irranca-Davies https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=5053 Irranca-Davies, Huw You took a couple of interventions. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 768003 531 En 2026-07-14T20:48:31 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=26313&l=en 260714-10 9. Debate: The First Supplementary Budget 2026-27 C 162 162 Elin Jones https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=162 Jones, Elin I didn't know—. The clock wasn't running in my original contribution. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 768004 532 En 2026-07-14T20:48:33 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=26315&l=en 260714-10 9. Debate: The First Supplementary Budget 2026-27 C 5053 5053 Huw Irranca-Davies https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=5053 Llywydd Irranca-Davies, Huw Away you go, you're fine. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 768005 533 En 2026-07-14T20:48:36 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=26318&l=en 260714-10 9. Debate: The First Supplementary Budget 2026-27 C 162 162 Elin Jones https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=162 Jones, Elin To Labour Members, old and new, I know that you have recently been badly defeated in an election. I know it's painful and confusing. I have been there. But, ultimately, you will not be defined by that loss, but how you respond to it. It can make a party or break it. You've been lately quite keen, in this Chamber, to point us in Plaid Cymru to Scotland. Well, I point you to Scotland, too. Look at your sister party in permanent opposition since 2007. Today, you will not only vote against the retention, intact, of your own Welsh Labour Government budget, but also against new money to reduce NHS waiting lists, to provide more free childcare, to extend £1 bus travel for young people, to spend more on backlog maintenance for schools and hospitals. Last week, Labour, you voted with Reform to ensure that this Senedd voted against fair funding for Wales. Labour voted against fair funding for Wales. I shudder to think how successive successful previous Labour First Ministers would have viewed that. Today, you vote against £120 million for ALN provision in Wales, with Reform. You will be voting with parties of the right, who will welcome you. [Interruption.] Hear them. Hear them. They will welcome you with open arms, because you will give them their majority today. And you are doing so against a progressive budget that provides more support for those most in need in Wales. The fine statue of Rhodri Morgan is tonight watching its first vote in this Senedd since it was unveiled. I served as a Minister in his Government. He reflected the progressive co-operative values of the Labour Party in Wales. Today, Labour have abandoned those values. And in these final few moments before the vote, there is still time for you to reclaim them. Reclaim them. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767975 534 En 2026-07-14T20:50:00 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=26402&l=en 260714-10 9. Debate: The First Supplementary Budget 2026-27 C 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767977 535 En 2026-07-14T20:50:34 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=26436&l=en 260714-10 9. Debate: The First Supplementary Budget 2026-27 C 267 267 Ken Skates https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=267 Skates, Ken This is beneath you, finance Minister, it truly is. It truly is. And I wish that you would focus more on negotiations than attacks, I really do, because you may be more successful in getting future budgets through this Senedd. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767978 536 En 2026-07-14T20:50:51 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=26453&l=en 260714-10 9. Debate: The First Supplementary Budget 2026-27 C 162 162 Elin Jones https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=162 Jones, Elin I ask Members to vote for this budget motion, to lift our collective heads above tribal party politics. Because this is a progressive budget for progressive parties. And even more importantly, it puts the priorities of the people of Wales first. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767979 537 Cy 2026-07-14T20:51:16 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=26478&l=en 260714-10 9. Debate: The First Supplementary Budget 2026-27 C 5053 5053 Huw Irranca-Davies https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=5053 Llywydd Irranca-Davies, Huw The proposal is to agree the motion. Does any Member object? [Objection.] I will defer voting under this item until voting time.  16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 768009 538 Cy 260714-10 9. Debate: The First Supplementary Budget 2026-27 I Voting deferred until voting time. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767982 539 Cy 2026-07-14T20:52:33 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=26555&l=en 260714-11 10. Voting Time C 5053 5053 Huw Irranca-Davies https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=5053 Llywydd Irranca-Davies, Huw We will now move to voting time. Unless five Members wish for the bell to be rung, I will proceed directly to voting time. The first vote is on item 8, the legislative consent motion on the Steel Industry (Nationalisation) Bill. I call for a vote on the motion, tabled in the name of Adam Price. Open the vote. Close the vote. In favour 86, no abstentions and seven against. The motion is therefore agreed. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767986 540 Cy 260714-11 10. Voting Time V Item 8. Legislative Consent Motion: Steel Industry (Nationalisation) Bill: For: 86, Against: 7, Abstain: 0 Motion has been agreed<div class="voteResultLinkContainer"><a href="record.senedd.wales/VoteOutcome/16085/?#V7454">Click to see vote results</a></div> 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767987 541 Cy 2026-07-14T20:52:55 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=26577&l=en 260714-11 10. Voting Time C 5053 5053 Huw Irranca-Davies https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=5053 Llywydd Irranca-Davies, Huw Next, a vote on item 9, the debate on the first supplementary budget for 2026-27. I call for a vote on the motion, tabled in the name of Heledd Fychan. Open the vote. Close the vote. In favour 44, no abstentions and 49 against. The motion is therefore not agreed. 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767988 542 Cy 260714-11 10. Voting Time V Item 9. Debate: The First Supplementary Budget 2026-27: For: 44, Against: 49, Abstain: 0 Motion has been rejected<div class="voteResultLinkContainer"><a href="record.senedd.wales/VoteOutcome/16085/?#V7455">Click to see vote results</a></div> 16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767989 543 En 2026-07-14T20:54:07 http://www.senedd.tv/en/16085?startPos=26649&l=en 260714-11 10. Voting Time C 5053 5053 Huw Irranca-Davies https://business.senedd.wales/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=5053 Llywydd Irranca-Davies, Huw That brings today's proceedings to a close. Diolch, bawb.  16085 7 2026-07-14T13:30:01 767990 544 Cy 260714-11 10. Voting Time I The meeting ended at 20:54.