National Assembly for Wales

I call the National Assembly to order.

Before we begin today’s business, I wish to make a brief statement. I’ve reflected on yesterday’s Plenary session, and, indeed, on several recent Plenary meetings. Regrettably, there have been exchanges here that have been unfitting and unpleasant.

I have said previously that I want to encourage democratic debate that is vigorous and robust. However, Members should be able to disagree on issues without resorting to personal insults. I expect Members to show proper respect for the Assembly and courtesy at all times to other Members. This applies to us all, including Ministers—proper scrutiny should not be met with personal attacks.

Therefore, I want no more heckling of Members as soon as they get to their feet, no more shouting of insults from a sedentary position, and no more attacks on character. Upholding the integrity of this place is paramount, and we will do that if we listen considerately and allow everyone to make their points—that is the essence of democratic debate.

A copy of this statement has been issued to each Member.

The first item, therefore, on the agenda are questions to the Cabinet Secretary for Education, and the first question, [OAQ(5)0050(EDU)], was withdrawn. The second question, therefore—Neil Hamilton.

Diolch, Lywydd. I’m most grateful to you for your statement.

The new Tenby Church in Wales primary school opened in September this year, in what the headteacher has described as a state-of-the-art new building. I look forward to seeing the school for myself and speaking to those benefiting from this investment, when I officially open it tomorrow.

I’m grateful to the Cabinet Secretary for that response. Mr Palmer, the headteacher, also said, in addition to welcoming the state-of-the-art school that he heads, that he is trying to build on a blank canvas and that there are insufficient funds for outdoor play equipment and for furniture, that several rooms remain unfurnished, including the meeting room, IT suite, foyer and additional learning areas, and that they have no PE equipment. He also wants planting boxes, raised planting beds, and plants to go in them, and a school that tells people what the institution is and is attractive and welcoming. Perhaps the Cabinet Secretary can tell us what she might be able to do to help them obtain all those essential items.

Can I thank the Member for his supplementary question? Together with the Welsh medium school, Ysgol Hafan y Môr, Tenby Church in Wales primary school has seen an investment of over £8.5 million, supported by £4.8 million from our twenty-first century schools programme. Tenby Church in Wales primary school has been provided with, as the headteacher says, a state-of-the-art building and suitable equipment. This includes the most up-to-date LED touchscreens in the county, Wi-Fi provision throughout, a state-of-the-art sound system, and comprehensive CCTV coverage. I understand that the local authority is keen to work with the school, and its school governing body, to resolve any concerns that they may have regarding equipment in the school. And, as I said, I will be able to see for myself tomorrow, when I visit the school.

When you visit the school tomorrow, I’m sure that you’ll be very impressed with the new additional learning needs dedicated classrooms, which are an enormous step forward for the provision of services and support to children with additional learning needs in south Pembrokeshire. However, the school next door, the Welsh medium school, doesn’t have quite such up-to-date facilities, and I wonder whether you would be able to discuss with those who will be meeting you to talk about the new schools, and the £8.5 million that’s been so welcomingly spent, will you actually talk to them about how we’re going to be able to provide, in the south of the county, additional learning needs support for children who come from a Welsh-speaking home and Welsh-speaking background? Because it will be very distressful for them to be able to only get support through English-speaking medium.

Can I thank Angela for that question? As you’ve said, the new Church in Wales Tenby school does have excellent special educational needs provision within the school. The establishment of a stand-alone Welsh medium primary school in Tenby is a welcome development. It meets the growing demand for Welsh medium education in that part of the world, and I’m very pleased that Pembrokeshire have invested in that school. It is my ambition that we have equality running through everything that we do in education, and access to support for additional learning needs through the medium of Welsh is crucial in establishing that. You will know that I and the Minister for the Welsh Language and Lifelong Learning, do intend to publish an ALN Bill before Christmas, and ensuring there is equitable provision for those students who study through the medium of Welsh will be crucial.

I thank the Cabinet Secretary for the replies she’s given so far. This is one of the first twenty-first century schools in Pembrokeshire, of course, so we need to learn from this experience, which hasn’t been perfect, but that’s a learning process. And I agree with the Cabinet Secretary that, really, it’s now down to the county council to negotiate properly with the school governors, on the provision of the additional facilities, or the facilities that some people feel are missing from a twenty-first century school. And that’s already been raised by my Plaid Cymru colleague, Michael Williams, with Pembrokeshire directly. So, when you go tomorrow, Minister, will you be in a position to view all these facilities for yourself—I’m sure you will—but, in particular, if you do find, and if you do hear, that there’s still an ongoing issue there, will you take the opportunity to talk directly to the county council in order to resolve these issues as soon as possible?

Simon, my officials have already been in touch with Pembrokeshire County Council concerning the statements made with regard to the facilities within the school. The county council do dispute some of the statements that have been made, but acknowledge that in other areas, such as, for instance, the reuse of school furniture from the previous schools, that is indeed a fact. Now, when developing a new school, the county council would usually liaise with the governing body over a period of time to address these particular concerns. Because this is a new school, those usual arrangements were not in place, and Pembrokeshire have assured my officials that they do indeed intend to work collaboratively with the governing body and the head to address any outstanding concerns. I will see for myself the facilities tomorrow, and my officials will continue to work with Pembrokeshire and the school to make sure that the children have what they need.

Thank you, Hannah. Citizenship and political education are important parts of the curriculum and will be central to the new curriculum. One of the four curriculum purposes is that all pupils become ethical and informed citizens. In the current curriculum, learners study citizenship and politics through personal and social education, as well as the Welsh baccalaureate.

Thank you. I welcome the opportunities that the Welsh baccalaureate and the wholesale review of the curriculum gives to embed action and programmes that enable and empower our young people to become active citizens and, ultimately, hold people like us to account. There’s so many good examples out there. In my own constituency alone, there is the eco committee at Ysgol Croes Atti in Flint, which raises awareness of environmental issues locally and encourages learners to promote a healthier and greener future. And, of course, the Ysgol Merllyn school parliament that I was pleased to welcome here a couple of weeks ago, and I know that you actually met them. They actually have a proper election campaign and an election day, and the eligibility to vote is that you have to be for, and in, full-time education. And what that does is that it embeds with those children the importance of voting at a very young age, and being an active citizen. Will you, Cabinet Secretary, commit to visiting some of these examples, not just in my constituency, but across Wales, to help inform the provision of citizenship and political education in the future?

Thank you, Hannah. I did, indeed, have the opportunity to meet with some of the children from the school council. Indeed, I met my counterpart, the minister for education on the school council, and she had plenty of good ideas about how we can improve education not only in that school, but across Wales. As you say, currently, these issues are predominantly dealt with in the active citizenship theme in the existing personal and social education framework, as well as through the Welsh baccalaureate. At both key stage 4 and post 16, learners have the opportunity to develop their knowledge and understanding of society and the community in which they live, and an awareness of global issues through events and perspectives. The education service works very hard here at the National Assembly to provide opportunities under the Welsh baccalaureate for young people to come and use our facilities and to debate, and we will continue to look at examples of good practice as we develop this area of learning and experience for our new curriculum.

Cabinet Secretary, I was last week refused permission as an Assembly Member to hold a public meeting in the new Ysgol Bae Baglan in Port Talbot by the headteacher at the last moment, trying to discuss local parking issues and access to community facilities at the school. The reason given was that it was a political meeting, but it was not a political meeting because we had representatives from other parties and other AMs from other parties there at the meeting. I don’t expect you to comment on this particular example, but how can we expect pupils and students to engage in the political process if headteachers, locally, do not know what processes are and what is deemed political and what our role is as Assembly Members? What training will you therefore carry out for headteachers who may not know what those rules are?

The availability of school facilities for meetings of that nature are a matter for the individual headteacher and the governing body, and it would not be appropriate for me to comment.

I think the issue of political education in schools may be quite pertinent now that we have the local government Minister’s proposals for extending the vote to 16 and 17-year-olds possibly at some future date. So, I wondered how we ensure that political education is taught in a balanced way to represent different political viewpoints.

I am delighted that the Cabinet Secretary has signalled his early commitment to extend the franchise to 16 and 17-year-olds. Many of those 16 and 17-year-olds who I meet on my visits to schools and colleges are very anxious to be able to have a formal say in the political process. As I outlined in my answer to Hannah Blythyn, we have an extensive range of opportunities for children to learn about politics and the communities that they live in, and I believe in the professionalism of our teaching staff who deliver our curriculum to do that in a balanced and objective fashion.

Questions now from the party spokespeople. The Plaid Cymru spokesperson, Llyr Gruffydd.

Thank you, Llywydd. Cabinet Secretary, we are in the process of reforming the curriculum here in Wales, with many schools looking at specific areas, from the curriculum itself to CPD, and the digital competence framework, of course, is now seeing the light of day. We have over 100 pioneer schools working in different ways in Wales through the four different consortia. But, there is some concern developing, from what I hear from the sector, that there is a risk that some of these are working in ruts. The Welsh Local Government Association themselves have said that there is concern that they are working in parallel rather than working in collaboration. There has been a call for delay in order to take a step back, to take stock, to rationalise perhaps and to draw everything together before moving forward more robustly. Do you agree that getting this right is the important thing, rather than doing it swiftly?

Thank you, Llyr, for your question. I think it is true to say that, historically there has been some disconnect between the pioneer schools and different networks. That’s why we have brought them all together under a single network to try and ensure that there is greater collaborative working across the pioneer schools. We are also redoubling our efforts to ensure that those schools that are outside the pioneer network also feel part of this exciting process of co-developing the career curriculum with the teaching workforce themselves. I recently launched a new curriculum blog to allow us to directly communicate with all those in the field of education about these changes, and we will continue to review our progress to ensure that everybody feels that they are part of this important co-design of our new curriculum.

I’m pleased that you recognise that some of those schools that are non-pioneer schools feel somewhat excluded from this process. The Education Workforce Council has warned that there is a two-tier system developing that could be causing splits. So, I welcome the fact that you acknowledge that and that you intend to do something about it.

Of course, you then need the capacity in order to do this work of developing a curriculum, attending meetings, dealing with the other schools and the consortia, and so on and so forth, while continuing to do their daily work, in terms of teaching in a climate that many would acknowledge is already challenging in terms of pressures of work, and so on.

A number of teachers have recently been working hard to redraft work programmes in light of the publication of the new GCSE specification. That’s been quite depressing for some, knowing that that work could perhaps be swept aside as a result of the new curriculum, which could be introduced within 18 months in certain circumstances. Despite the difficulties there, are you confident that the capacity and the resources are in place among the workforce in Wales to deliver this programme, which is a change that will need to be made to a high quality and within a challenging timetable?

I am absolutely confident in the profession to be able to develop the new curriculum in conjunction with the Welsh Government for teaching and learning in 2021. The Member, Presiding Officer, is absolutely right to say that this needs to be resourced. Therefore, there are resources in my education budget to ensure that those schools that are participating in this pioneering work are not disadvantaged and have the facilities and resources that they need, for instance, to backfill when teachers or headteachers are engaging in this activity. What we do know is that, whilst it presents challenges, there is also fantastic opportunity for school-to-school learning when schools participate in this work. The professionals that I have met—and I have addressed in the last few weeks over half the headteachers in Welsh schools—what they tell me is that being part of this process has led to benefits for their individual school because they have learned from others and they are taking those lessons back. So, as we move towards our curriculum, we are using that opportunity to improve on our self-improving schools system, which they very much welcome. But, it has to be resourced, and I am confident that the resources are there for them.

It is going to be quite a challenge, of course, to ensure that the teachers we have today are actually prepared to deliver this new curriculum and that they are ready for that. Being part of a pioneer school is going to help many to be part of that process in a more natural way than would happen outwith those pioneer schools. But it is also important that the new teachers that come into the reformed education system are prepared for that system. Given that some schools will, perhaps, be introducing this new curriculum in 2018, how confident are you that the arrangements are in place to ensure that new teachers going through the teacher training process at present are prepared for the new curriculum?

You will know, Llyr, that a school cannot be better than the teachers that are within it. Therefore, equipping our teachers—both those who are new to the profession and those teachers who are already in the profession—with the skills that they need to deliver the new curriculum is absolutely crucial. That’s why, you know, we are embarked on a radical reform of our initial teacher education programme. We are out to consultation as we speak on the new criteria for the new ITE courses. But I expect change now. I don’t expect higher education institutes to sit back and wait for those new courses. That’s why I am greatly encouraged by the conversations that I have had at the University of South Wales, Trinity Saint David, Aberystwyth and Cardiff Met about the changes that they are making now with local schools in their area to improve the offer for our initial teacher training. We need to get it right for them. Otherwise, the curriculum redesign will be for naught.

Welsh Conservative spokesperson, Darren Millar.

Cabinet Secretary, the Cymdeithas Ysgolion dros Addysg Gymraeg has warned that there may not be GCSE textbooks available for students and for staff by the time that they need to be developed in order that they can take advantage of preparing their pupils properly for the new GCSEs and A-levels that are going to be introduced from next year. What do you say to that?

Thank you, Darren. As I said to Angela earlier, equity in the education system in Wales is crucial to me. While I acknowledge that the WJEC publishes specs and sample papers in a bilingual area, there is a concern about the availability of Welsh textbooks. I do not expect children who do their exams through the medium of Welsh to be disadvantaged in any way, and I am not satisfied that the current situation does not provide a disadvantage for those children. Myself and the Minister for Lifelong Learning and Welsh Language have met to discuss this, as I have with my officials. It is my intention to set up a summit with all of those involved to look at ways in which we can address this concern, to see what we can do in Wales itself, with our universities and schools, our teaching profession, and the Welsh publishing sector to be able to address this failure in the market. It is clear to me that we cannot expect English publishers to put us at the top of the list. If they will not do so, we will need to do something different. If you would like to come along to the summit, Darren, you would be more than welcome.

I would be very happy to attend, Cabinet Secretary. I am grateful that you have taken such action to set one up. Of course, it is not just the publishers’ fault here. We have Qualifications Wales, which is yet to approve the details of the qualifications that those young people are going to have to sit. I am pleased to hear you refer to the fact that HE providers and further education providers will also be present at the summit. One of the great things that we have seen in Wales in recent years is the success of Coleg Cymraeg Cenedlaethol in terms of ensuring that HE providers are able to offer courses through the medium of Welsh for young people to study in. What consideration have you given to extending their remit into further education so that FE providers can also benefit from the expertise that the coleg Cymraeg has?

Thank you for that, Darren. As you will be aware, I recently established a task and finish group to look at the future arrangements for the coleg. They have done tremendous work in expanding the opportunities for students to study through the medium of Welsh at a higher level. I believe that there is capacity, potentially, to do that at an FE level, and I don’t want to prejudge the work of the task and finish group under the chairmanship of Delyth Evans, but I believe there is an opportunity to better enhance the opportunities for students to study through the medium of Welsh not only at HE, but at FE level.

Of course, we’re only going to be able to achieve these ambitious plans for the future if we’ve got a workforce that is fit to deliver these courses through the medium of Welsh. What consideration have you given to the warnings that you have been receiving from different organisations in the education field who have been saying that we do not have sufficient numbers of teachers who are proficient in the Welsh language to be able to deliver these ambitious plans, and what action are you taking in order to address that shortage of teachers in the Welsh language?

You’re absolutely right, Darren. We need to make sure, if we’re to achieve our ambitions for Welsh-medium education, and indeed for enhancing the learning of the Welsh language in English-medium schools—unless we have the workforce readily available to do it. You will be aware that, as I’ve said to Llyr Gruffydd, we are reforming our initial teacher training education offer. There are incentives for those with Welsh language skills to come into the teaching profession, and we provide resources to allow teachers who are already in the profession and who want to develop their Welsh skills to go on sabbaticals to allow them to do just that. The feedback I’ve had from that scheme is very positive indeed, and we need to do more to encourage teachers to take part in that sabbatical so that we can increase the availability of Welsh language skills within that teaching profession, and give them the confidence to use those skills in the classroom.

UKIP spokesperson, Mark Reckless.

Diolch, Lywydd. Last week, ‘The Sunday Times’ published it’s ‘parent power’ tables, including the top 400 state secondary schools across the UK weighted by GCSE and A-level results. Is the Cabinet Secretary happy that the top Welsh school in that ranking was one hundred and eighty-second?

What is important to me is the progress that Welsh schools are making. Members should note that, last year, Welsh GCSE results were exactly the same as those of their counterparts across the border in England. But I’m not content to just benchmark our education system with that across the border. I want to benchmark our system with that that is the best in the world. That’s why we continue to work proactively with the OECD to ensure that the reforms that we are undertaking will allow us to reach those ambitions.

I thank the Cabinet Secretary for her answer, and of course next year and afterwards we may not have the opportunity to make such comparisons across the border because the GCSE grading system is changing in England from A to G to 9 to 1, and Wales is not taking that path. As a parent seeking to compare primary schools, and standards across different schools, I’ve found that a much greater challenge in Wales than I did in England, because the key stage 2 results do not appear to be published in a comparable form that allows easy comparison between schools. Is that the intention of the Welsh Government, and would it not make sense to publish such data in an easily comparable form so as to elucidate rather than obfuscate the differences between schools?

Presiding Officer, the Member has come across from a system that believed in competition. The Welsh education system is based on a system of collaboration and co-operation. It is by working together in a self-improving school system that we will deliver the education that our children need. The data that are available at the end of primary school are primarily there to inform teachers both in the primary sector and the high schools that those children will move on to how best we can support those individual children to meet their full potential. It is not there as a stick to beat the profession and beat individual schools; it is there as a diagnostic tool to assist the teaching of individual children. There is a plethora of information available to Welsh parents on the My Local School website. It looks at a complete picture of the performance of our schools. Data around achievements is one important area, but the well-being of the school, the value added in the school and the ethos in the school are equally important to the parents that I meet and talk to.

I note the Cabinet Secretary’s response, but the complete record is not available. I would quite like to look at what the key stage 2 results are for different schools across Wales, and to compare what the trend is in that and what improvements there have been, and to make comparisons, appropriately adjusted, between schools, as would many other parents. The system is set up for her and for the profession, yet somehow parents are not judged capable of making sensible and appropriate comparisons. Of course collaboration is important, as well as competition, but what on earth is served by suppressing data that should be available to allow people to make proper comparisons?

Can I also ask her, just before—because I’m not sure I’ll get very much in response to that—? When we move the GCSE results—. We’re having a new curriculum, yet we’ve chosen not to move to the 9-1 grading they have in England. Is she not concerned that Welsh students—if not now, down the road—may suffer disadvantage? Because many will seek jobs in London or elsewhere in England and, as happens now with Scottish highers, quite often even at quite significant sized companies, those results are not necessarily well understood. After the passage of years, or perhaps decades, if in Wales we have students who are graded A-G, when they are graded 9-1 in England, is she confident that that will not be a disbenefit to Welsh students?

I’m absolutely confident that the quality of the qualifications that we are offering our students in Wales is comparable with anybody’s—comparable with anybody’s. They are tough, they are stretching, they are robust and they equip our children with the skills that they need to succeed in the world of work and in further education.

Presiding Officer, the Member seems to suggest that there is no data available to parents. There is a plethora of information available to parents. There are the Estyn reports, which are publicly available for parents to look at. There is the school categorisation system, which is available for parents to look at. It is simply not true to suggest that parents have no access to information about the performance of their local school. It’s not the case. There is a wide range of information readily available to parents to see how their individual school is performing. Assessment and test results are there primarily as a teaching aid for the individual children. They are not there to provide false and competitive league tables for the Member. We believe in a self-improving school system, based on the principle of collaboration and co-operation, because we know, internationally, that is what works best.

Presiding Officer, prior to answering this question I would like to put on record an interest in this matter, in that I have a child attending a Welsh-medium primary school in mid Wales.

The national strategy for small and rural schools will provide support for schools to work together as well as a £2.5 million grant. This will support Welsh-medium and bilingual primary schools to work together and to share good practice. This will strengthen local authority Welsh in education strategic plans.

Thank you, Minister, for your answer. In spite of efforts from the headteacher and governors of Llanrhaeadr-ym-Mochnant Primary School in my constituency, in order for them to achieve a balanced budget, they have to make reductions in staffing from five to four teachers. In doing that, this will lead to the combination of English and Welsh infant streams in the afternoons, compromising, of course, their bilingual status as a school. Do you recognise the higher cost that small rural dual-stream schools face, and what do you think is a solution in ensuring that bilingual schools are not compromised?

Many of the matters the Member has referred to in his question are, of course, matters for the local authority rather than matters for us here. But let me make a more general point in response—I think the general point does deserve a fuller response than that.

You’ll be aware that the Cabinet Secretary made a very comprehensive statement to the Chamber on the issue of rural schools. She emphasised, at that point, the importance of equity, which she has again referred to this afternoon, in terms of ensuring that people are able to access education in the Welsh and English languages equally. We continue to wish to ensure that rural schools and schools across the whole of Wales have the right framework available to them, plus the resources, to ensure that they are able to offer those educational opportunities. I will also repeat what I’ve said on previous occasions in this place—that we are anticipating the Welsh-medium strategic plans to be provided to us next month, and I will be taking a great interest in what all local authorities are proposing over the next strategic planning period.

It’s clear that within these WESPs you would, hopefully, be seeking to ensure that language streams aren’t being mixed. That’s what’s happening now in Llanrhaedr-ym-Mochnant, as I understand it, given the current cuts—that the foundation phase is being mixed together in terms of language streams. That’s not appropriate or good practice. There are also similar problems developing in Llanfyllin, and possibly in Llandrindod Wells. Yes, there’s been a failing by the county council, and that’s been ongoing for a number of years, to prepare appropriately for the growth of Welsh-medium education in Powys, if truth be told. But, in looking at the WESPs, will you ensure that you don’t allow the situation to continue and that there should be no mixing of language streams, and that you therefore put the appropriate pressure on the county council to make appropriate provision to retain the language appropriately within these schools?

Llywydd, we’re all aware that proposals are being discussed in Powys at present. It’s a possibility that those proposals will come before Welsh Ministers for a decision. So, the Member will not be able to tempt me to offer any comments on the specific examples that he’s described in Powys this afternoon. But may I say this about the principle behind the question? I don’t want to create one model and solely one model for the provision of Welsh-medium education and bilingual education. I want to hear from local authorities about their plans, and after I’ve had the opportunity to consider those proposals, I’ll return here and make a statement on that at that point. But at present I don’t want to create any kind of linguistic straitjacket and say that there’s only one single model for Welsh-medium education throughout the whole of Wales.

Thank you, Vikki. Educational attainment in the Cynon Valley broadly presents a gradually improving picture. Having reflected on the recent Estyn inspections of consortia, I am confident that, whilst there is definitely room for improvement, they continue to play an important role in delivering improved outcomes for learners.

I recently met with representatives of the Central South Consortium at Mountain Ash Comprehensive School in my constituency and was impressed to hear about the year-on-year improvement the consortium has seen across every performance indicator, from key stage 2 to key stage 5. Success in areas like Cardiff is often based on work with pupils drawn from a range of diverse backgrounds where English is often not the first language. What lessons does the Cabinet Secretary think could be drawn from work with these groups to improve the performance of children from more disadvantaged backgrounds, particularly in constituencies such as mine? How can the Welsh Government best support consortia in delivering such work?

Thank you for that. You’re quite right, within the Central South Consortium, we have a wide range of schools that the local education authority is operating. I recently visited Fitzalan High School here in Cardiff where there are 40 different languages spoken amongst the children in that school. I am very keen that each consortium develops a comprehensive plan for the effective use of the pupil deprivation grant, which is our primary tool aimed at ensuring that children from a poorer background attain their full potential. I am concerned, in some areas, that the use of PDG is not as effective as it could be. For instance, some schools do not follow the advice of the Sutton Trust toolkit, which has best practice and evidence-based interventions. I have asked, in my challenge-and-review meeting with Central South, that they ensure that there is best use of that significant resource that is going into our schools and that it is used to best effect.

Cabinet Secretary, the National Association of Head Teachers recently pointed the work of the consortia, praising some aspects of support, but made the point that there’s considerable challenge—and I’m the first one who would want challenge within a system, because, obviously, that progresses the system, hopefully, but they were pointing out a serious lack of support from the regional consortia when developing senior management teams and, in particular, pathways for headteachers to come through. Now, across the UK, there’s an issue about attracting people into the profession, in particular to become headteachers. Do you recognise the point that the National Association of Head Teachers makes about there not being enough support coming from the regional consortia to assist the development of the headteachers of the future?

Thank you, Andrew. I recently had the opportunity to address and meet with the National Association of Head Teachers at their conference in Newport. I think leadership is one area where we have not made as much progress as I would like to have seen across the country, and the consortia have a crucial role in identifying and supporting the continuous professional development needs of our future deputy heads, assistant heads and headteachers. You will be aware that I recently announced my intention to establish a national leadership academy. The shadow group, chaired by Ann Keane, is beginning their work in this particular area, and I would expect the consortia to be a crucial component in working alongside that body to look at opportunities to proactively seek out the next generation of leaders and provide them with the necessary support.

Local authorities are responsible for ensuring access to independent information, advice and advocacy services for children and young people with special educational needs. Where legal advice is sought, children, young people and their families can seek out private legal representation and, in some circumstances, may also be eligible for legal aid.

I thank the Minister for his answer. Following cuts to legal aid funding by the British state, there are now only three legal aid providers working in education law in Wales and England, and not one of them is based in this country. We know how hard parents of children with special educational needs sometimes have to fight to get the special education provision that their children are entitled to, and given the divergence increasingly in policy and in law between Wales and England in terms of education, the lack of a Wales-based legal aid provider is a real barrier to accessing legal advice for those parents. So, will the Welsh Government intervene urgently to secure equality of access to justice for parents of children with special educational needs?

I would prefer, actually, to remove the need for that sort of process at all. The Member will be aware from yesterday’s business statement that I will be introducing the additional learning needs Bill to this place before Christmas. We will be introducing a tribunal system as a part of that, and the rationale and the philosophical underpinning, if you like, of that legislation is to provide each individual learner with additional learning needs with an individual development plan that will take them from pre-school through beyond further and higher education, to the age of 25, and will provide a means for resolving those issues without, I hope, the need for recourse to legal aid or to any form of litigation. Our approach here is to ensure that we remove that pressure from parents within the system, although I accept and certainly agree with the criticisms he makes of the UK Government and their approach to this policy area.

One of the criticisms of the Welsh Government’s approach to this area, of course, is the fact that, if you’ve got a young person in further education, they don’t have the same rights to be able to challenge decisions made about them in terms of the support that they can receive. Is this something that we can hope to see addressed in your additional learning needs Bill?

Yes.

Question 5 [OAQ(5)0059(EDU)] has been withdrawn.

All children in Wales are entitled to free foundation phase education from the term following their third birthday. We know the foundation phase works and that’s why I am committed to giving everybody, in our approach to learning, the best possible start in life.

Thank you for that answer. Almost three years ago, the then education Minister wrote to me confirming that local authorities can, and I quote, provide these places—education for three-year-olds—in a nursery school, a nursery class within a primary school, or non-maintained setting, such as a playgroup or a private day nursery. Now, three years on, Swansea council is still only funding education for three-year-olds in local authority settings, so there’s no parental choice there at all. As Welsh Government has now adopted a target of 1 million Welsh speakers by 2050, do you think that Swansea’s position, which does nothing to promote the growth of these places in Mudiad Meithrin settings, is one that you can support?

I’m grateful to the Member for her question and the way she has pursued this matter over a long period of time. I’m also aware of her view of the approach being pursued by Swansea council in these matters. I said in answer to an earlier question from Simon Thomas that I’m looking forward to receiving the Welsh in education strategic plans next month, and I will be looking towards how all local authorities in Wales will be seeking to plan for the growth of Welsh-medium education in their own areas and districts. I will expect that from all authorities equally. And in reviewing those plans, I will be looking at how they will be measuring future need, how we can stimulate future need and how we can develop to grow Welsh-medium education in order to deliver our vision and ambition for a bilingual Wales.

How exactly will the progress in provision contribute to the strategy for 1 million Welsh speakers? That is, do you have a specific target within the education field for three to four-year-olds in terms of how much of a workforce you will need in order to provide bilingual education in the future?

We do have current targets. Targets exist at the moment in terms of the number of children that we have in Welsh-medium education in all age groups. We also know that we haven’t succeeded in attaining those targets. So, during the planning that’s ongoing for the new Welsh language strategy, which will be published next March, workforce planning will be a crucial part of that and a central part of our plans. You will have heard the response from Kirsty Williams to a previous question from Darren Millar about how we can expand Welsh-medium education and training through the medium of Welsh too. These different elements will be a central part of how we draw up the new Welsh language strategy.

We’ll be publishing the additional learning needs Bill before Christmas.

Minister, one of my constituents with additional learning needs has been waiting over seven months for an appointment with the child and adolescent mental health services, and in the interim has been receiving just a few hours of schooling each week. How can we expect young people like my constituent to reach their full potential if we are denying them a full and rich education? Minister, what steps are you taking to ensure that children and young people, like this six-year-old child, with additional learning needs get the full-time education they’re entitled to?

If the Member has individual cases, then clearly she can write to me and we’ll take those up with the appropriate authorities. But let me say this in terms of the overall vision: the additional learning needs Bill will be published before Christmas, and I’m looking forward to the debate and the conversation that we will have in this place and in committee, and the wider debate across Wales, during the parliamentary process of that Bill. I will be publishing the code of conduct, the statutory guidance, to deliver that Bill at the beginning of February, so Members will be able to review, study and scrutinise, not only the primary legislation but the secondary implementing legislation as well. But both these pieces of legislation form part of a much wider transformational programme that I launched some weeks ago with a written statement, pledging that we will ensure that all deliverers of additional learning needs have sufficient support and the training necessary. We will also be ensuring that resources are provided to enable local authorities and others to deliver the transformational programme as we envisage.

Hello. [Laughter.] Right. [Laughter.] We are all very much looking forward to the publication of this Bill. I am very grateful to you for meeting with me last week with the Royal College of Paediatrics and Child Health and Diabetes UK and for listening to the concerns about the need to include a duty to meet the medical needs of children in school in this Bill. Can you update us on what your current thinking is on that?

It was more of a surprise to me than it was to other people. [Laughter.]

I’m grateful to Lynne Neagle for both the time last week in conversation on these matters, but also the work she’s been doing as Chair of this committee in preparing the committee to ensure that we have the widest possible scrutiny of this legislation. At the end of the day, I want to have a good Act rather than a fast Bill and I think it’s important that the committee plays an important role in that. In terms of the conversation that we had last week with Diabetes UK Cymru and with the royal college, I was very impressed with what they had to say. I thought they made a very strong and effective case for significant changes in the way that we bring forward this legislation and the way the transformation programme will work, and all of those points were noted and you will see them referred to as we proceed with the legislation.

Deaf people have a right to access education. I’ve had concerns brought to me by constituents that this isn’t really happening as it should and there are staff at only level 1 or level 2 signing. So, Cabinet Secretary, would you please engage with British Sign Language students who have passed level 6 to work in the education sector, so that we can try and improve matters of access?

I’ve already met on many occasions with deaf students, families, organisations and practitioners working with those people in order to ensure that this legislation reaches out to all parts of the educational community and that all parts of our community receive the education that they need and deserve. Deaf people will be an integral part of that and as part of the wider transformational programme—not simply the legislation, but the wider programme—we will ensure that education is delivered by people who have the appropriate training in all languages whether it’s BSL, English or Welsh.

Claiming that it will

‘Transform the education support for children and young people’

with autistic spectrum conditions, the ‘Refreshed Autistic Spectrum DisorderStrategic Action Plan’, published today, then only really refers to the Bill you’ve already referred to, the additional learning needs and education tribunal (Wales) Bill. How will you provide assurance to parents such as myself, who had to fight to get a statement for their children because it was being used as a rationing process, a certificate of entitlement, recognising, for example, that exclusions of children who didn’t get statemented, who went to school action and school action plus categories, short-term exclusions doubled when they reduced for children in the general population unstatemented children? Is it not a real concern that the individual development plans proposed will enable providers to ration provision in the way, in practice, parents have seen for too long in Wales and beyond?

I fully accept that, for too long, parents have had to struggle and have been through very difficult and emotional times struggling to get the educational provision that they require for their children, and a part of that is not simply statementing but diagnosis as well. There has been a wide number of issues there that refer to the journey of the child, in this instance through health and social services, sometimes educational institutions and organisations and structures. I accept that there have been significant difficulties and sometimes failures there in that system. The introduction of the individual development plan, of course, is a way of moving away from that. It does deliver, we hope and we anticipate, and this will be a matter for Members to test, of course, during the parliamentary process. We will introduce flexibility for each individual learner so that we have the capacity within the code of conduct to have an individual development plan that reflects the needs of that individual and not simply the needs of the people delivering the service. So, we will be focusing in on that individual, but also delivering portability of that individual development plan, so that they can access services and it will be recognised by professionals both in different services and in different areas. So we will, I hope, be striking the balance so that people do not have to struggle, fight and campaign, sometimes, for the services and the education that they fully deserve and should have without any of that struggle. But we will also be ensuring that we do this in a way that is tailored for the individual.

I thank the Minister.

The next item is questions to the Counsel General and the first question is from Lee Waters.

Thank you for the question. I’d refer the Member to the written statement published last Friday. This case raises profound issues about the United Kingdom’s constitutional arrangements and the framework for devolution, and it’s right that Wales should be heard on those issues, and we will be putting our case at next week’s hearing. Because this is a matter of considerable public interest and importance, I have been as open as possible in the statements that I’ve issued and the answers I have given in the various sessions, as well as choosing to publish in full, online, the full text of our written submission to the Supreme Court.

Thank you. Given that the case to exit the EU was based, in part, on the importance of returning powers to Parliament, is the Counsel General as perplexed as I am that the UK Government is challenging the view of the court that Parliament should have a role in triggering this? Would he agree that this is a matter for all the Parliaments of the UK, not just the Westminster Parliament? And has he been in contact with other law officers to make sure that our interests are safeguarded?

Well, I can’t say that I’m perplexed. The UK Government has obviously decided on its own course of action, which is to lodge an appeal against the decision of the High Court. The submission that I filed on behalf of the Welsh Government, as Counsel General, sets out very clearly the view that we have, which actually supports that decision that the prerogative is not the appropriate mechanism for making significant constitutional change, or, in fact, for overturning the legislation of the United Kingdom Government, and also in respect of the constitutional arrangements that exist.

I’d refer the Member, in fact, to one of the points that we make in the submission to the Supreme Court that if the UK Government’s position was, in fact, correct, if the logic employed in the UK Government’s case is correct, then, in actual fact, the Prime Minister could have revoked article 50 at any time, even without any authorisation in the form of a referendum. So, we say that that clearly would be a perverse analysis and is plainly wrong.

We don’t think it pays sufficient respect to the democratically elected institutions of Parliament, this place and the other devolved legislatures. So, we think that giving notification under article 50 will modify the competence of the Assembly and the functions of the Welsh Government, as set out under the Government of Wales Act 2006. We say that the prerogative cannot be used to dispense with the constitutional statute. We also say that any modification to the legislative competence of the Assembly, or indeed any modification of executive functions within devolved competence, will engage the Sewel convention and that this is a key constitutional practice that is vital to the proper functioning of the United Kingdom. It provides for a dialogue between democratically elected legislatures about changes to the devolution settlement. We say that the UK Government does not have the power to short-circuit it through the use of the prerogative, so we will therefore be arguing for the High Court’s clear decision in Miller to be upheld and for the UK Government’s appeal to be rejected.

Since yesterday, I’ve had the advantage of reading the Government’s printed case, which will be presented to the Supreme Court next week. Rather bizarrely, it seems to ignore the one crucial and fundamental point in this whole saga, which is that the Government seeks to trigger article 50 consequent upon a decision of the whole British people in a referendum. In all the long history of legal disputes with the King in the seventeenth century, culminating in article 1 of the Bill of Rights, and following legal cases that establish the limited power of the Crown in relation to the prerogative, Parliament was acting as a proxy for the people and to control the autocratic use of the prerogative by the King. This is completely different. The people themselves, all the people of the United Kingdom, have been asked for their view on whether we should stay in or leave the EU. They voted to leave. The mechanism for doing that is to trigger article 50. Parliament has no role to play in that in any further respect. The people have spoken. There will, of course, be plenty of opportunity to consider in Parliament all the consequential effects of triggering article 50 through the need to revise all the legislation that has been passed in relation to the European Union since 1973. So, far from ignoring Parliament, this is to give Parliament the opportunity to fulfil the wishes of the British people, as stated in a referendum where they said, without any condition or qualification, that we should leave the EU.

The Member seems to be saying different things. On the one hand, he says there’s been a referendum, and that authorises the Prime Minister to proceed and totally to bypass Parliament, and then, on the other one, he says it is about empowering Parliament. But the position is very clear: we have a constitution, we have arrangements between the devolved Governments that are set, and encompassing all of that, we have the question of the rule of law. What the Member is very clearly saying is that we should disregard the constitutional settlement. He is saying we should disregard the constitutional settlement, and he is also saying that the rule of law does not apply. I made the point very clearly yesterday that the reason we put this submission in was for two things. It is nothing to do with the issue of the merits or demerits of the referendum itself. It is about standing up for democracy, the constitution and the rule of law. It quite worries me that the Member consistently appears to want to bypass the rule of law. That road leads only in one direction.

The Member knows that this answer is subject to the established law officers’ convention. The Welsh Government is pressing for improvements to the Bill as it progresses in the House of Lords. You will understand the reasons behind the law officers’ convention, and, whereas the nature and content of such discussions remain confidential, I can inform the Member that I have visited Scotland and I have held a meeting with the Lord Advocate to discuss issues of mutual interest.

I thank the Counsel General for that response and for pushing the boundaries of the convention as far as he can within this Chamber. I’m not sure if he’s making a rod for his own back here, but far more questions are being posed to him now that he’s answering them, so that’s something to bear in mind. One thing that is true of the Wales Bill, it would appear, is that, unfortunately, we won’t have a separate legal jurisdiction—something that’s been requested over many years by Plaid Cymru and something that the First Minister, more recently, has also been pushing for. Accepting that, for the time being, it’s unlikely to happen, as the chief law officer in Wales to all intents and purposes, what are you doing now to deal with the fact that there will be no separate legal jurisdiction and that there will be problems and difficulties arising as a result of that? What’s he also doing to prepare with the legal profession in Wales over the next five or 10 years in order to build the case for a separate jurisdiction, because it will come in due time in a further Wales Bill?

The Member raises an extremely important point, and I probably have to concede that, at this stage, we are not going to get the establishment of the distinct Welsh jurisdiction that I’ve always thought was a reasonable transitional process. It was very interesting hearing the Lord Chief Justice’s evidence to the Justice Committee in Parliament, where he was asked about this issue. And, quite rightly, he said this was a political matter, but he did refer very specifically to the fact that there is a growing body of Welsh law, with significant legislation, such as the Housing (Wales) Act 2014, and other legislation. The issue of the jurisdiction poses increasing challenges. And, again, I think the net effect of all this is that there will, inevitably, be a distinct Welsh jurisdiction; I think it will, inevitably, lead to a separate jurisdiction at some stage in the future. The systems we have we can manage, for the time being, but we are clearly on a path to significant jurisdictional change.

I would just make the point that I’ve made a number of times, that there is a sort of mythology in the sort of status that has developed around the concept of the jurisdiction, which really bypasses the fact that the reason for wanting to create a jurisdictional basis for Welsh law is that it is, ultimately, about the efficient administration of justice. And that is why I think, inevitably, we are on that path, and we will be there. I take some comfort in the possibility of the establishment of a justice commission of some sort in the Wales Bill, and I think that will enable us to continue to look at that.

I think, also, developments in respect of the appointment of a president of tribunals and so on also gives an indication of the way in which the Welsh legislation is going, the administration of justice is going, and the way in which, ultimately, the jurisdictional issue is developing, and going.

Without trying to tempt the Counsel General to go into political spheres, would he agree with me that one of the major weaknesses in the debates that we’ve been involved with, particularly in the second House, on the Wales Bill, is the unwillingness of law officials and UK Government Ministers to reinforce and to standardise the Welsh constitution more clearly, for the people of Wales and for Welsh politicians, and, indeed, for all the citizens of Wales? Would it be possible for him, as our chief lawyer here in Wales, to hold direct discussions with law officers in the rest of the UK on the dire need to bring the Welsh constitution to be at least a little more similar in clarity to the Northern Irish and Scottish constitutions?

Thank you for that question. And, again, I suppose I ought to repeat that, although meetings with law officers do take place, the subject of those meetings, for obvious reasons, remains confidential, other than, obviously, there are matters of mutual interest to discuss.

He raises, certainly, a point that is raised in the Law Commission’s report, which very much deals with issues around codification, and, I think, deals with the points that you’re raising with regard to the need for a clear framework and accessibility in respect of Welsh legislation. That is something that is very much under review at the moment, and I would hope to be able to make a statement at some time in the future on this very point.

The Member will know that this question, again, engages the established law officers’ convention. Nevertheless, I can assure the Member that the Welsh Government will work tirelessly to ensure that Wales’s position is protected, and that will, of course, involve very careful consideration of the likely impact of the UK Government’s Great Repeal Bill on Welsh legislation, and whether legislation by this Assembly would be appropriate.

Thank you for that response. What steps is the Welsh Government taking to ensure that EU legislation that relates to devolved areas is actually transferred here to Wales?

Well, the Member will probably be aware that there’s extensive work under way, across the Welsh Government, to ensure that we maximise our influence in the discussions with the UK and, in turn, in formal EU negotiations, and thereby to secure the best possible outcome for Wales. The Cabinet sub-committee on European transition is providing strategic direction to the Welsh Government’s work relating to the UK’s exit from the EU, and, of course, a European advisory group has been established, comprising business people, politicians and others with European expertise, and this will advise on the wide-ranging impact on Wales of the UK’s exit from the EU and how we can overcome challenges and take opportunities to secure a prosperous future and a continued positive relationship for Wales with Europe.

I think I would also refer the Member to paragraph 10 of the legal submissions, which are online and which have been filed with the Supreme Court, because that, I believe, actually sets out our position—the Welsh Government’s position—in respect of some of those issues. Paragraph 10 of that submission says that a large number of the devolved functions of the Welsh Government derive from EU law, and will therefore be lost upon the UK’s withdrawal from the EU treaties. We then list a number of examples: for example, the designation of special areas of conservation, designations for the natural resources body for Wales emissions trading scheme. Welsh Ministers have also been designated as a competent authority under the nutrition and health claims, and there’s a whole raft of these competencies that Welsh Government and Welsh Ministers actually have, and those will actually disappear.

These functions will, to the extent that they are maintained or modified, require a new legislative base after the EU treaties cease to apply. The difficulty we have with the great repeal Bill at the moment is that we have actually no indication as to precisely how it would operate, what it might contain, but I think what is very clear in terms of our position is that the UK Government must recognise that any powers in the devolved fields currently held at EU level must be exercised at a devolved level, unless there was a clear and agreed reason for them to be held by the UK Government. And, in that event, there must be a mechanism for co-decision making in these areas.

Well, it will come as no surprise to the Counsel General that, as a member of the UK Independence Party, I obviously welcome the fact that the Prime Minister is working on a new Act of Parliament to repeal the iniquitous 1972 European Communities Act. However, to set UKIP’s position with regard to this, whilst we support the Act, we’re also adamant that it in no way rolls back the competencies of this Government, and that we in Wales must be free to change or amend any part of the Act that affects those areas devolved to this Assembly. Does the Counsel General agree with me that it is vital that we not only retain those competencies given to us, but we shall also be able to amend the devolved areas covered in the Act to best serve the Welsh people?

It is certainly the Welsh Government’s case that there should be no rolling back of those devolved areas, and those powers currently residing in Europe that relate to those devolved areas should be dealt with as I have outlined. So, I welcome the comments that the Member has made. I would urge him to go one step forward and actually support the concept of the rule of law in respect of the matters that are before the Supreme Court as well.

Members will know my advice is legally privileged. However, Members will know that the Human Rights Act is embedded in the Government of Wales Act 2006 and consequently impacts on legislation made by the Assembly and Welsh Ministers.

Thank you. The UK Government has indicated that it plans to abolish the Human Rights Act, and, Counsel General, you’ll be aware of Amnesty International’s campaign against this. Far from what its detractors will you have believe, the Act protects ordinary people’s freedom, safety and dignity, and helps people hold authority to account when things go wrong. Indeed, the Act was instrumental in aiding families of Hillsborough victims in finally finding the truth. Will you, Counsel General, outline the implications of the abolition of the Human Rights Act for us in Wales?

Thank you for the question, and, as has previously been set out by the First Minister in his evidence to the House of Lords EU Select Committee, the Welsh Government is fundamentally opposed to the repeal of the Human Rights Act 1998, and, similarly, to any withdrawal from the European Convention on Human Rights. The Human Rights Act affects the Welsh Ministers and the Assembly in two very direct ways. Firstly, they are public authorities for the purpose of the Human Rights Act 1998, which means that they cannot act in a way that is incompatible with convention rights. And, secondly, the Welsh Ministers are under a statutory duty by virtue of the Government of Wales Act 2006 not to act or to legislate incompatibly with the convention rights, so that any Assembly Bill provision is outside the Assembly’s competence if it is incompatible with convention rights. It is almost certain that imposing compliance with a British Bill of Rights on the Assembly will require the Assembly’s consent by a legislative consent motion.

Can I refer specifically to the Amnesty International campaign, which is a campaign I very much endorse, because the Human Rights Act has been something that has been grossly misrepresented by certain political organisations and parties? For me, it is a jewel in our constitution, in our legislative framework. It is very interesting, some of the points that have arisen in the Amnesty International campaign, and I was very disappointed to see that the posters were subsequently banned by Network Rail. But, just referring to the comments that were made, for example, by Becky Shah, whose mother died at Hillsborough, she said that:

‘Without the Human Rights Act we would never, ever have had the second inquest. Without the Human Rights Act we would never, ever have got the verdicts of unlawfully killed against all the parties that were culpable. It was an absolutely imperative piece of legislation.’

Again, the parents of John Robinson, who died in 2006 from a ruptured spleen, where, again, the issue of second inquest arose, where the family said that it was

‘fundamental to everyone, in all walks of life. It opens access to justice for the man in the street. From the outset, all we wanted to know was the truth, and we were denied that by an inadequate first inquest. Using the Human Rights Act helped us achieve our goal.

For me, my personal view and the view of the Welsh Government is one of opposition to it. The idea of supplanting the excellent Human Rights Act and the European Convention on Human Rights with a Bill of Rights, in my view, could do nothing other than probably lower the standards of human rights, and what would that say about the standing of the United Kingdom in the world—at the time, with everything that is happening, to be saying that our objective now is to lower the standard of human rights?

I refer the Member to the written statement published last Friday, attaching my written submissions to the court. As I’ve previously said, this case raises profound issues about the United Kingdom’s constitutional arrangements, and the legal framework for devolution. It’s right that Wales should be heard on those issues, and we will be putting our case at next week’s hearing.

Thank you for that response, and I agree with the decision to become part of this case by the Welsh Government. If I have read the submission to the Supreme Court correctly, the Welsh Government is of the view that article 50 should be triggered through a Bill before the House of Commons—not a motion or simply a vote in the Commons, but a Bill. If that is the case, have you considered the kind of Bill that would be an appropriate vehicle for that process? Would it, for example, include a specific section related to Wales and European legislation currently implemented in Wales, and the continuation of that legislation? And have you discussed at all with other law officers how such a Bill could allocate time to respect the decision of the people of the UK as a whole and the referendum whilst also respecting the place of this Assembly in the democratic process?

The Member raises a very, very important point in that we do actually also have to think beyond the ultimate judgment. If the judgment is upheld, and it is necessary for Parliament to legislate, then further issues arise: firstly, in respect of the Sewel convention, in that the Bill will inevitably impact on the devolution settlement and we would have a voice at that stage. What I would hope—and, again, I think it’s the same comments that have been made by the First Minister from time to time—is that, at that stage, the UK Government will work to seek consensus from all the devolved Governments of the United Kingdom to work collectively for a common objective, ensuring that the voices of all parts of the United Kingdom are heard.

I welcome the robust stance of the Counsel General in making sure that the voice of Wales is heard at the Supreme Court. That’s right and proper, I feel strongly. Would he recognise that, in those areas of competences that he’s referred to, of course, is the very prominent area of competence in Wales of agriculture and rural development? Whilst it’s right that whatever comes out of the appeal hearing and the subsequent repeal Act should recognise where the competences lie, they should also recognise where the funding paths lie. Any suggestion that competences could remain here, but funding—or under some framework, these competences of funding—disappears up to the end of the M4, is frankly misguided and very dangerous for Wales.

I would certainly agree with what the Member says. Any suggestion that, on the one hand, a competency is laid with the Assembly within our devolved area but that the funding is then removed to another body, whether it would be to Westminster or wherever, raises very serious issues in respect of the rolling back of devolution, and a significant change in direction of the devolution settlement, and certainly, the undermining of the referendum that took place within Wales and the parliamentary process in respect of the Government of Wales Act, and also in respect of the current discussions and legislation going through Parliament in respect of the Wales Bill. So, I would totally reject that approach, and I would affirm that, with the responsibilities that come to Wales within the devolved framework, they should also bring the capacity to being able to carry out those responsibilities, which means the funding for those areas.

Thank you for the question. We continue to make representations. The proposed changes to civil litigation and small claims are likely to have serious impacts on people across Wales, and we are continuing to challenge the UK Government on reforms that restrict access to justice.

Thank you for that response. Do you, Counsel General, agree with me that this is a further step in restricting ordinary people’s rights and access to justice through the courts system?

The simple answer to that is ‘yes’. I’ll elaborate on it to the extent that we continue to make representations to the Ministry of Justice about its raft of reforms to the justice system to ensure that access to justice is available for everyone in society, including the most vulnerable. We have serious concerns about the quality of the evidence provided by the Ministry of Justice in support of its proposals to reform the process for soft tissue injury whiplash claims, which it is currently consulting on. Of course, last week, ‘The Law Society Gazette’ reported that data in the consultation paper was, in fact, out of date and could be potentially open to judicial review. So, we are pressing the UK Government to emphasise to it the importance of ensuring that the rights of all people are protected.

One of our concerns is that the proposal to increase the small claims limit from £1,000 to £5,000 would prevent many people who have suffered injury, losing the right to free legal advice. We are concerned about how robust the supporting evidence is. We’re also concerned about the basis on which this is pressing ahead, because one of the objectives with regard to the whiplash soft tissue injury aspect is to provide a cap on damages of £450, which is well below the existing small claims limit. So, if that was the objective, one would ask why this is actually taking place. Well, you have to look at it to see a more general direction that’s being taken, and that is to increase the small claims limit. One would ask why that is taking place and for whose benefit. What seemed to me to be very clear is that the insurance industry lobby is extremely powerful and is effectively promoting a series of reforms. The UK Government is consulting on those reforms. I would have to say that this is a battle that has been going on for a number of decades. Every reform that takes place results in injured people receiving less access to justice and the insurance industry increasing their profits. I have not yet seen a situation where there has been a reform that has reduced damages and has actually led to any reductions in insurance industry premiums. I think that is a concern if that is the potential outcome of these reforms. So, as I say, there is a consultation under way. The Welsh Government will be responding and we will be giving considerable thought to the content of that response to the consultation process.

As Counsel General, I have not yet had any specific discussions regarding promoting gender equality within the legal profession in Wales. However, equality is an important aspect of my desire that the legal sector in Wales is to be cherished and nurtured, supported and encouraged to innovate and grow, but is also representative of the society in which it operates.

I thank the Counsel General for that response. Statistics from the Bar Standards Board show that, amongst barristers, the gender balance is almost equal in terms of barristers being called to the bar. But, by the time it comes to practising as a barrister, there is a huge difference, with almost twice as many men as women actually practising as barristers. What is the Counsel General’s view as to what can be done to tackle this issue in the legal profession?

Whilst not, perhaps, directly relevant to the question, the Welsh Government has made representations in these areas, in particular about the composition of the Supreme Court. The issue has also been raised by the Judicial Appointments Commission itself and by a number of justices themselves. The Member may well be aware of some of the comments made by Baroness Hale, the sole woman on the Supreme Court. There are some data that the Members may be interested in: there are 108 high court judges and, of them, 21 are women and three come from an ethnic minority background. In the Supreme Court, of 12, there is only one female, and that is Baroness Hale. They are predominantly white, male, privately educated and, in general, unrepresentative. Under way at the moment are considerations of appointments of a number of deputy High Court judges and High Court judges. There is one Supreme Court judge to be replaced, and five to be replaced in due course over the next couple of years due to retirements. Of course, Lady Justice Hale said that the UK Supreme Court should be ashamed if it doesn’t increase diversity. What she also said, of course, is that, of the 13 appointments over the decade that she has sat, all but two were from Oxford or Cambridge, and all but three went to boys boarding schools.

The point, I think, that the Member is making, of course, is that our judicial system, to have the confidence of the people, should be representative of the people. I think it is very clear that, not only in terms of the representations made by the Welsh Government, but within the Judicial Appointments Commission itself and within the legal sector itself, there is a recognition that there is a need for far greater diversity. The UK has one of the lowest proportions of female judges in Europe, and this is something that has to be addressed. We also have to pay some attention, I think, to the actual legal profession itself, because, from start to finish, the number of female lawyers is where the judges are ultimately selected from. So, we have to ask why the system has failed up to now. If we look at the Queen’s Counsel system, only 13 per cent of those are women. So, there are significant issues that, I think, have been recognised but are hopefully going to be addressed, and are very much in line with the thinking of Welsh Government and representations from Welsh Government itself.

I thank the Counsel General.

I have accepted three urgent questions under Standing Order 12.66 and I call on Bethan Jenkins to ask the first urgent question.

Yes. I had a meeting today with the management team of Trinity Mirror South Wales, where I raised this worrying matter and expressed my concern at the proposal to close the Cardiff printing press.

Thank you. You’ll appreciate that, as Chair of the Culture, Welsh Language and Communications Committee, I have an interest in this particular area, given that we will be carrying out more work as a committee over the next five years into looking at the landscape of the media in Wales and the retention and development of journalists, and the work that surrounds journalists here in Wales. We were told when they opened this new printing press around 13 years ago that they would be able to secure more printing jobs as a result of this new set-up, as opposed to fewer possibilities for the future. So, can you tell me, as part of your discussions with them, why this turnaround has come about, how the staff in Cardiff will be supported, and where will those Welsh daily and weekly newspapers be printed in future? I would have thought, with the acquisition of Local World, which the ‘South Wales Evening Post’ is part of in my region, that there would be more of a case for that printing press to be retained and sustained in Wales so that we can see a future for journalism.

My final question in all of this is: what are your concerns, therefore, if this is a printing press that is leaving Wales, and how does this speak for the future of journalism in Wales when we are already suffering from a democratic deficit here?

Can I thank the Member for her questions and say that I couldn’t agree more with her concerns? I also recognise the important work of her committee and the increasing importance that it will take in the coming years in analysing the media landscape and the important role that the print media plays. This proposal is currently out to consultation and I will be responding formally.

Unfortunately, as the Member may be aware, it is not a decision that is being taken here in Wales locally or by the Media Wales team. Instead, it’s being taken by another company within the Trinity Mirror group. So, I’ll be making direct representation to that company, in which I’ll be seeking assurance over the future employment of those people who would be affected if closure goes ahead. It’s my understanding, based on the discussions that I had with the local team today, that printing would be concentrated and consolidated in three presses in England, those being Watford, Birmingham and Oxford, which is clearly unacceptable given the significance of the newspapers that are currently printed in Cardiff to south Wales.

Now, unfortunately, there is a trend in consolidating printing presses across the UK, and we’re witnessing this as sales of newspapers fall and activity instead moves towards an online presence. That said, it is absolutely essential—and the member will recognise that this is a long-standing argument—that the print media recognises a need to be realistic in the profits that it expects to return in the twenty-first century. In being more realistic, it should take greater account of those people who are employed in printing and in journalism within those newspaper groups, whether they are owned by Welsh companies or owned by British companies.

I thank the Cabinet Secretary.

I call on Adam Price to ask the second urgent question.

Yes, I firmly believe our steel industry has a sustainable future in Wales, and we are fully committed to doing all we can to achieve this. However, we will not respond to media speculation as Tata explores options for the future of the plants in Wales.

The Cabinet Secretary’s obviously referring to the very worrying report from Reuters yesterday based on an e-mail circulating among the trade unions and other sources. Could he say at what point he was aware of the possible proposal to close one of the two blast furnaces at Port Talbot and if he raised this in his letter to the new interim chair of Tata, Ratan Tata? Could he also say: the First Minister has previously indicated that, in the absence of sufficient long-term guarantees to primary steel production, the Welsh Government would ask the Secretary of State for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy to intervene to prevent a merger under his public interest powers—is that still the position of the Welsh Government? The Cabinet Secretary has previously referred to the need for a long-term guarantee. Can he state on the record that three years absolutely would not be a sufficient guarantee? The report referred to Tata and ThyssenKrupp taking a minority stake and the possibility of a third investor. Would the Welsh Government, in conjunction with the UK Government, be prepared to be that third investor, subject to appropriate guarantees? Finally, if all these avenues fail and acceptable guarantees are not forthcoming from Tata and ThyssenKrupp, would he, as a last resort, be prepared to temporarily nationalise Port Talbot, as the Welsh Government will be able to do, according to analysis by the House of Commons Library, under the terms of the Wales Bill currently before Parliament?

Can I thank the Member for his question and say that I do understand the concerns that will have been presented as a consequence of recent media reports? But there are many, many reports that are circulating at the moment, including some that are more positive. I reflect on one just on Friday, for example, in ‘The Guardian’ that suggested that Tata was looking imminently at announcing that all 11,000 jobs would be secure for at least a decade. I therefore think it’s not the role of Welsh Government to provide a running commentary on media speculation, but instead to stand firm in the position that we take in terms of potential intervention.

The Member is absolutely right to say that three years of guarantees would be insufficient. We share that view. We have been, as the Member is aware, in discussions with Tata for some time regarding a significant package of support that would be compliant with European state aid rules. That support would be conditional on Tata agreeing to certain criteria. It would go beyond three years, it would include at least two blast furnaces being operated, and it would also include local management control, which in turn would then enable the UK and Welsh steel interests in Tata to identify new market opportunities and also to develop new products and innovation that would put it on a sustainable footing for the future.

It’s my firm belief that the best assurance of sustainability for Tata is the development of a competitive business, which in turn requires investment in research and innovation and in modernisation of those plants that are contained within the UK Tata Steel family. The Member raises the question of actions that could be taken by the UK Government in regard to a potential merger and I would say that the UK Government should do all it can to secure the long-term production of steel in the UK. It is unfortunate that, in the autumn statement, insufficient regard was paid to immediate action and intervention that could be taken, but I think the Member is right to say that the UK Government should consider all of the levers at its disposal to ensure that there is security of employment at Tata Steel sites right across Wales and indeed the UK.

In terms of the support that we would offer, as I say, we would expect the conditions to include more than three years—as a very minimum, five years—but also the guarantee of at least two blast furnaces. I’m confident, as I say, that the direction of travel that’s been taken by the steel sector in Wales is one that we can be proud of in the last 12 months. All steel manufacturing sites are showing positive results but, within the Tata family, I think the journey that has been taken as part of the bridge has been incredibly impressive and bodes well for the future.

Can I thank the Cabinet Secretary for that set of answers, because I think it’s important that the steelworkers and people in my community understand the strong position the Welsh Government is taking on this position? Since the start of 2016, we’ve heard very bad news. It started with job losses, then the possible closures. Steelworkers in Port Talbot, their families and their whole communities have been living with a sword over their heads for this whole 12-month period. The speculation—from positive news on Friday to less positive news yesterday—is not doing any good to the morale of the workers or their families. It’s important we get clarity on the position of the steelworks and the future of our steelworks.

In that sense, can I join Adam Price in saying: will you be making strong representations to the UK Government to ensure they take positive action? I’ve yet to hear Theresa May actually say anything positive about steel making. It’s about time she did and about time she committed to the UK steel industry. That is important—and therefore Greg Clark similarly—to ensure that we have a strong voice here and the UK Government is prepared to back it up, because they control issues on pensions, and it’s been known that the Tata joint venture discussions with ThyssenKrupp are dependent on the pensions being resolved. So that’s an important area. It’s also about energy costs, to show that there is a future for steel making. But perhaps you can go a bit further than the UK Government and actually seek a meeting with Ratan Tata to actually say to him directly how this affects communities and the steelworkers, and the commitment they have given to the industry across recent months, and that they should be rewarded for that commitment and not punished through all this speculation.

I couldn’t agree more with the Member. I think he speaks eloquently about the need to capture security at a time when media speculation is causing something of a rollercoaster ride of emotions within many families and households that rely on the steel sector. And I will most certainly be requesting a meeting with Ratan Tata to follow up my letter to him, which was sent yesterday. The meeting that I had with the chief executive back at the end of September was very positive, but I do wish to ensure that our message is conveyed at every opportunity to the highest level of Tata management: that we are ready to support them if they are prepared and ready to make the right decision. I will be meeting tomorrow with the Secretary of State for Wales, where I will relay the message from both sides of the Chamber that it is essential the UK Government acts where it knows it can to secure the long-term sustainability of the steel sector in Great Britain, and especially in Wales.

Thank you, Cabinet Secretary, for your answers to Adam Price and David Rees, and thank you also for what I’m now taking to be your definition of what a sustainable future for steel might mean, which includes the retaining of the two blast furnaces and longer than three years in terms of the support that you’re prepared to provide. If it emerges that a guarantee can’t be given to save both blast furnaces and won’t be given to secure more than three years’ sustained investment, does that mean that you will be reducing the support that you’ve already committed to giving Tata Steel? In your answer to me in questions in July, you indicated that any Welsh Government support to Tata was conditional on sustaining jobs and sustainable steel production for the short and long term, but also that you would work with any alternative buyer—and, of course, the potential of ThyssenKrupp isn’t one that appeals to all of us—but that you would work with them if they would guarantee a sustainable future for the Welsh steel industry. So, if that guarantee doesn’t end up being given, does that mean that existing support will be reduced?

Secondly, I appreciate what you say, that you don’t want to respond to every single press release, but I’m intrigued to know what’s the letter that which you wrote yesterday. Obviously, you’re seeking reassurances on what we’ve heard recently, but are you also seeking reassurances that the press speculation of a $500 million investment in the plant would be forthcoming?

And then, finally, as my other questions have already been answered, last week, or the week before, in response to the question raised by Bethan Jenkins, you indicated that the 49 new full-time job equivalents that had been announced for Tata were part of a strategic plan from Tata in terms of employment, rather than just doing a bit of backfilling or emergency cover. And I’m wondering whether the press speculation that we’ve heard today about job losses seems to contradict that comment. Perhaps you could just give us some clarification on that.

Well, it would seem to contradict it. What we do know—. The facts are that there is a strategic plan at the Port Talbot site and, as a consequence, a significant—more than four-dozen people were, or are, in the process of being recruited directly by Tata in Port Talbot. I am happy to publish my letter to Ratan Tata once he has received it, and I would hope that it will be received, if not today, then in the coming days, so that Members are aware of the assurance that I have given him of our position in being willing and ready and determined to work with Tata to secure the long-term future of Port Talbot and the other steel sites in Wales.

The Member raises a question about hypothetical scenarios whereby Tata might seek only three years of conditions. We’ve said our minimum is five years. That is an absolute minimum. And we are still in contact with other potential interests, including, for example, Excalibur. And our position is: we will work with others if others can secure the long-term future of Port Talbot and the other steel facilities across Wales.

Thank you, Cabinet Secretary. I’m particularly concerned about the pension scheme, as has been mentioned previously in this debate. Tata bought Corus, as you will know, for more than it was worth and just before a recession, and it should have done the due diligence and known the liabilities, although those of us who have been involved in other pension issues such as the Visteon pensioner campaign will know that even a £700 million deficit in a scheme with obligations of £15 billion is really not all that great, and less so now that it is claimed to be just £50 million. Do you agree with me, then, that this is what makes ThyssenKrupp’s involvement so galling? Here is a company where a €9.7 billion pension scheme is two thirds wholly underfunded. That’s according to Bloomberg, which also said that the German group

‘makes more money with elevators than it does selling steel.’

Does the Welsh Government really want a company with a pension underfunding of more than €6 billion and such weak growth attaching itself to Welsh steel, and has it spoken to Tata Steel specifically about these issues?

I thank the Member for the question. I’ll say my concern is the long-term employment of the people who work in the steel sector, and as far as pensions are concerned, Tata has restated that it is seeking a solution for the British Steel pension scheme. Again, we’d urge all parties towards achieving a satisfactory solution that is in the best interest of all members of the scheme.

I thank the Cabinet Secretary.

Before I call the third urgent question, I would like to remind Members of the sub judice rule. If active proceedings of a criminal case or a case involving a jury are in progress, then Standing Order 13.15 prohibits discussion in this Chamber. Members need to be satisfied before speaking that they are not pursuing matters that would breach that Standing Order. I now call on Russell George to ask the third urgent question.

I thank the Member for his question. North Wales Police issued a statement about historical sex abuse within football. They confirmed they are working with the ongoing Operation Hydrant. I would encourage members of the public who have any knowledge of abuse of children or young people to contact the police.

Can I thank you, Cabinet Secretary, for your response? At the moment, of course, this is very much commenting on historical cases of abuse, and it’s clear today that most people involved—the majority of people involved—in football coaching are there for the right reasons, and do a great job with young people and society as a whole. I think it’s important that we say that today. I would ask the Cabinet Secretary what enquiries he has made in discussions he has held with the football governing body in Wales since the scandal first emerged two weeks ago, and what measures, investigations and support will be offered by the Government and the various football bodies in Wales to support any individuals involved, and ensure that justice is delivered.

Thank you for your question. My officials are in contact with the Football Association of Wales and football in the community trusts to ensure action can be taken as and when required. Whilst policing is a non-devolved matter, the Welsh Government is determined to learn lessons and prevent a further repeat of any child sexual abuse, and we applaud the courage of players who’ve come forward to expose the harrowing acts committed against them and acknowledge how difficult this was for them and their families. The Social Services and Well-being (Wales) Act 2014 will help ensure that local safeguarding partners are supported by more robust leadership and a stronger, more effective framework for multi-agency co-operation in this space.

I agree that it’s important that we applaud the courage of the people who speak out in these cases, and the Waterhouse inquiry demonstrated in the year 2000 that children at that time hadn’t been believed, and that people hadn’t listened to them. And what that did, of course, was to place the spotlight on advocacy services here in Wales, which are a hugely important part of the provision in this context. Since then, of course, we have seen a whole host of reports—three by Assembly committees and four by previous children’s commissioners—expressing concerns about advocacy services in Wales. But we’re now, as I know the Cabinet Secretary will agree, looking forward and hoping that the national approach to statutory advocacy services will be put in place next year. But would you recognise, however, that we haven’t had the necessary strategic leadership from successive Governments here in Wales on this? Because waiting over 10 years to reach the point that we have reached—and we’re still not in a position where this national approach is in place—is unacceptable.

I thank the Member for his question. I have recently met with the children’s commissioner and with the WLGA and the director of social services to discuss the issue of the advocacy service. I am aware of the Assembly committee doing an inquiry into this and I have been given confidence by those authorities that they will have a service of advocacy in place by the end of June next year.

I thank the Cabinet Secretary.

The next item on our agenda is 90-second statements. Steffan Lewis.

Diolch, Lywydd. I thought it fitting in the week when Wales hosted the British-Irish Parliamentary Assembly that this National Assembly take a moment to recognise the bond between Wales and Ireland, and the significant contribution made to Welsh life by Irish people. The flow of people between Wales and Ireland spans millennia and, of course, led to a Welshman becoming their patron saint. Of course, not all visits over the years from across the Irish sea were of a friendly nature, and not all were universally welcomed here. Indeed, notable Welsh figures such as Iolo Morganwg lamented the arrival of Irish people to the shores of Pembrokeshire and Anglesey following the rebellion of 1798.

The most notable migration of Irish people to Wales, of course, occurred in the context of the horrors of the great famine, ‘an gorta mór’, where the hungry came for food and for life itself. A memorial stands in Cathays cemetery today, recognising those who fled that famine and as a mark of remembrance to the hundreds of thousands who perished.

The Irish community have enriched Welsh life, providing us with sportspeople, artists, workers, friends, and even a health Minister, and 2016 marks the centenary of the Irish proclamation of independence, a period and an event in which Wales featured. Irish prisoners of war were held at Frongoch camp, and it is said that two Welsh soldiers facilitated the escape of Irish rebels, Ernie O’Malley, Frank Teeling and Simon Donnelly from Kilmainham gaol in 1920. As their centenary year comes to its end, it is fitting, Llywydd, that we recognise the contribution of Irish people to our nation, and commit ourselves to strengthen the bonds between our two countries in the years to come. Diolch.

Janet Finch-Saunders.

Diolch, Lywydd. Tinnitus—not often mentioned here in the Senedd. Its impact debilitating, and the consequences can be devastating. Last year, James Ivor Jones, a much-loved member of my local community, took his own life in a tragic way after struggling with tinnitus for six months. His son describes his suffering as unbearable, and he sadly now suffers with the condition.

It is, though, often unrecognised, undiagnosed and underestimated. Often described as a ringing in the ears, sounds heard can include buzzing, humming, grinding, hissing, whistling and sizzling, and in some cases actually beating in time with a person’s heart, having a significant negative impact on day-to-day life, leading to sleeping problems and severe depression to 60 per cent of sufferers. Treatment, when available, includes sound therapy, counselling, cognitive behavioural therapy, and tinnitus retraining therapy. There is no single treatment that works for everyone, and diagnosis at a very early stage is considered crucial.

Action on Hearing Loss Cymru have highlighted that there is a postcode lottery for diagnosis and treatment here in Wales. I am speaking up today to call on the Welsh Government and all Assembly Members to become more aware of this illness, and would ask you to commit to an increased awareness, focus, and support early access to early diagnostics intervention and help for those suffering. Thank you.

Eluned Morgan.

All around Wales there are care homes, hospital wards and communities where people live without creativity, inspiration or hope for the future. Reported levels of loneliness and mental health are spiralling. I was the former chair of Live Music Now in Wales, a role now undertaken by the former Presiding Officer, Rosemary Butler. This is a charity that sends and funds high-quality musicians to play to people who don’t usually have access to live music. The organisation focuses in particular on working in care and nursing homes and in special schools, and I can testify to the fact that the experience of being exposed to the arts for residents is truly transformational.

The Welsh Assembly’s new cross-party arts and health working group, in collaboration, where appropriate, with the Arts Council of Wales, is in a unique position to bring these two worlds of the arts and health together. The group has written to both the health Secretary and the culture Secretary to ask for help in funding a study to prepare an evidence-based report where efforts would be made to collate the information and great work that’s already being undertaken in Wales to help justify a shift of funding from health to the arts and, where necessary, to do more pointed research in order to harden the evidence needed.

In care homes, the value of creative interaction is underrated, in particular in fields like dementia. Participation in the arts and music by older people can significantly improve their quality of life and mental health, and we believe that providing exposure to the arts is more cost-effective than popping pills. We hope that a dedicated piece of work commissioned on the subject will justify our position and help to make the case for shifting a proportion of that funding from health to the arts with a view to improving health and well-being outcomes for the people of Wales.

Thank you for your 120-second statement. [Laughter.] Diolch.

The next item on the agenda is the statement by the chair of the Standards of Conduct Committee and I call on the committee Chair, Jayne Bryant.

Diolch, Lywydd. Today is Gerard Elias QC’s last day in office as the commissioner for standards. I would like to thank him for all his hard work in establishing this landmark role over the last six years and welcome his successor, Sir Roderick Evans QC, to the position of commissioner for standards.

Gerard Elias was appointed in 2010 following the passing of the National Assembly for Wales Commissioner for Standards Measure 2009. He was an excellent appointment for the Assembly, bringing his wide range of experience, having worked in the legal profession for over 40 years. His strong commitment to public service led him to having held a number of public appointments. These include a deputy High Court judge, recorder and former leader of the Wales and Chester circuit, chancellor of the diocese of Swansea and Brecon, chairman of the England and Wales Cricket Board’s Cricket Discipline Commission and chairman of Sports Resolutions UK.

The Measure of 2009 sought to ensure the National Assembly for Wales had a commissioner for standards able to promote high standards in public life among Assembly Members; had the powers to establish him or her to investigate complaints rigorously; and, finally, a commissioner who was clearly independent of the Assembly and therefore able to act with complete objectivity. These are all matters of great significance to ensure that the people of Wales have confidence in their elected Members.

During his tenure, Gerard Elias has aspired to and achieved the aim of the Assembly being a beacon of standards in public life. He’s established a well-respected, independent office and shaped his role to ensure that there is confidence in the standards of the Assembly. I believe he has taken a measured and balanced attitude to managing complaints and engaged in constructive conversations across the board, from Assembly Members to the wider public, about reasoning for his decisions and those who brought forward complaints.

This pragmatic and approachable style has been valued by Assembly Members and all those who have worked with him. Alongside his work on complaints, he’s been a source of salient advice to the standards committee, particularly during the fourth Assembly’s review of the code of conduct and associated guidance, which culminated in the compendium document that was issued to all Members at the beginning of the fifth Assembly. Of particular note was his work to ensure that the Assembly had adequate sanctions and appropriate sanctions if a transgression by a Member occurs and his updating of the requirements for the declaration and registration of interests, which has brought more clarity and transparency to the system.

These changes made here have helped to ensure that the rules governing the Assembly standards are fit for purpose in the changing context of devolution. Furthermore, Gerard Elias instituted the biennial standards commissioner lecture on standards in public life, which broadcast to Wales that standards in public life do matter. Having secured two Lord Chief Justices in office to attend was a real achievement and an excellent innovation for the Assembly. This is an initiative I understand the new commissioner intends to continue.

I’m also delighted to take this opportunity to welcome Sir Roderick Evans QC to the role of commissioner for standards. I’m sure Members will agree that he’s an excellent appointment. Sir Roderick is a retired High Court judge and, in addition to a distinguished legal career, is also a fellow of Aberystwyth, Swansea and Bangor universities, a fellow of the Learned Society of Wales and was welcomed into the Gorsedd of the Bards in 2002. During his comprehensive recruitment procedure, Sir Roderick attended a public confirmation hearing at a meeting of the fourth Assembly. At this hearing, he comprehensively set out his vision for the future of standards in the Assembly and his approach to the potential challenges during this Assembly and beyond. His appointment was unanimously confirmed by the fourth Assembly.

The role that Sir Roderick is taking on is still relatively new and continually evolving. Undoubtedly, there will be challenges to ensure that the Assembly maintains the high levels of standards achieved thus far, not least as the committee starts its review of lobbying and identifies those areas that need further guidance and advice. The committee is looking forward to working with Sir Roderick to support him in building the office of commissioner for standards further, and to uphold the high standards of the National Assembly for Wales.

I’m sure all Members will join me in welcoming Sir Roderick to the post and thanking Gerard Elias for all the hard work he’s done in developing the role of commissioner and upholding the standards of the Assembly. [Assembly Members: ‘Hear, hear.’]

May I thank the Chair for her statement and welcome her, of course, to her role? This is her first formal statement to this Assembly, and I thank her for that and look forward to working with her as a member of the committee. May I also endorse the thanks to Gerard Elias QC, appointed, as we heard, in 2010? As a member of the standards committee in the last Assembly, I can testify to the fact that he did promote the high standards that we all strive to achieve. He has been an independent-minded figure, of course, but also entirely objective in his consideration of the cases that were brought before us. Our debt, as Members and, indeed, broader society, to him is very great in that regard.

You referred to the review in the fourth Assembly of the code of conduct and the related guidance, and, yes, that led to a summary document that has been presented to all Members of the fifth Assembly. That’s a valuable contribution, I think, to securing the high standards that everyone wants to see, but it does so in a robust manner, yes, but without being impractical or unreasonably burdensome. I would ask you, Chair, in looking to the future, that striking that balance is a very important thing, that is that expectations in terms of standards are commensurate to the level of risk that exists, and that we need a system that is effective and robust, but simultaneously practical and reasonably implementable.

I would also endorse your welcome to Sir Roderick Evans QC into his role. I had an opportunity to question him as part of the confirmation process, and I am entirely confident that not only will he continue the good work done in the past few years, but will of course also build upon the work of his predecessor.

The role, as you said, is still evolving, as is this institution, of course, and there will be challenges facing us, and we must not rest on our laurels. I’m sure that you would agree with me that safeguarding standards is an ongoing process in an institution such as this one. May I perhaps ask you whether you would agree that devolution of additional powers, particularly in relation to taxation, perhaps, will further highlight the need to continue with this work of safeguarding standards in light of what will be, I suppose, as a result of more powers, more external interests and influences and more lobbying, and that it’s important that we continue to ensure that the highest standards are maintained under the new commissioner, as we move forward?

Thank you very much, Llyr. I really appreciate your kind words as well at the start, so thank you very much. I think the commissioner, Gerard Elias, has sort of got into me straight away about the need for vigilance, but also proportionality, so I think the committee hears that loud and clear. And, as you quite rightly say, with the new powers that are coming to the Assembly, those key words are really important—that we continue to be vigilant always, and to be proportionate.

Can I also welcome the statement from the Chair of the Standards of Conduct Committee on the incoming standards commissioner? The commissioner plays, of course, a very key role in aspiring to achieve the highest possible standards from us as Assembly Members, so that the public can have confidence in their elected representatives. I think we’ve been fortunate to have had an excellent standards commissioner in Gerard Elias QC, and I think he’s done an exceptional job, always thoroughly objective and independent in the way that he’s conducted himself as well. I’ve no doubt whatsoever that Sir Roderick Evans QC will continue in that vein, and I want to, on behalf of the Welsh Conservatives, also welcome his appointment. I’ve no doubt that he will be also very exceptional.

I think it is crucial that the new commissioner’s remit is firmly established in order for him to fully understand the breadth of his role, and so I would appreciate knowing whether you as Chair of the committee feel that it is time, perhaps, to reflect on the scope of the role of the commissioner to see whether, because of the changing arrangements in this Assembly, there may be an opportunity to refresh that in some way.

Of course, the standards committee is also there to hold the commissioner to account, and we all have an opportunity to have a look at the commissioner’s annual report. But I wonder whether there might be additional opportunities to monitor the work of the commissioner and his office in the future, and whether the standards committee may have some additional opportunities to be able to do that, perhaps in a little more depth.

I’m sure the Chair will agree with me that it’s important that the new commissioner has a strong engagement with Assembly Members from the very start. Obviously, none of us in this Chamber want to see him too often, I’m sure, for all sorts of reasons. But, it is important to have a good rapport and an understanding of each other’s respective roles, and I wonder whether there might be an opportunity for the Chair of the committee to arrange for Assembly Members to be able to do just that in the future.

We’ve also got to make sure, of course, that there’s transparency in the work of the commissioner, and that the regulations and the code of conduct are constantly under review, and that they are understandable by Assembly Members, the commissioner and, indeed, members of the public. I wonder whether there may be, again, an opportunity for the committee to look at these things in the round, particularly in terms of public engagement and understanding the role of the commissioner, if they want to make complaints, for example.

I think that the way that Assembly Members, at all levels, engage with their constituents continues to change. There’s far more done by social media, for example, now than there was 10 years ago when I was first elected to this institution. And, as a result of that, I think it’s very wise that we constantly keep things under review. But I do very much hope that the new commissioner, in undertaking his role, will consider that part of our work, in particular going forward, to see whether there may be any changes necessary to the code of conduct in order that they can reflect the new landscape of communications, if you like. But just to put on record again my thanks to Gerard Elias, and the warm welcome that we want to give to Sir Roderick Evans.

Thank you very much for the warm welcome to Sir Roderick, and your kind words again about Gerard Elias, because I think it’s great to have all parties on the same page on this, because he has done a fantastic job.

I think you raise a really interesting point about the need to look at the role in the future, and I’m happy, along with colleagues on the standards committee, that we can have a discussion about that. I’m keen that we do keep up to date and follow things through appropriately. Your point about transparency is absolutely crucial, and, again, that’s an area where we feel strongly that we have to be vigilant. And the point again about social media: as you said, this role has changed incredibly over the last few years, and it is really important that we uphold those standards through social media as well.

Can I also add my congratulations to the Chair of the standards committee on the excellent way that you delivered your first statement to the Chamber? That also reflects the way that you’re running the committee in general anyway. Okay. Being new to the standards committee, I had little time to get to know Gerard Elias personally. However, I’m very aware of the legacy he’s left from his time in office, not least in his input into the compilation of Standing Orders—the Standing Orders rulebook. This is, of course, an invaluable asset to any newcomer to the Assembly, as well as giving first-class guidance to established AMs and Assembly staff. In my short time as an Assembly Member, I have come to realise the high regard in which Gerard Elias is held by all those involved in the Welsh Assembly. His legacy is sure to be a lasting one.

Can I also now turn to Gerard Elias’s successor, Sir Roderick Evans? It shows the growing stature of this Assembly that we’ve been able to secure the services of a person of such high standing. I’m sure he will bring as many attributes to the role, with an independence and authority that is so important to our democracy. I am equally sure that all in the Assembly, and particularly those of us in the standards committee, welcome him wholeheartedly to his new role. I know that the role of the standards committee will change over the coming years, but I’m equally satisfied that the Chair will lead us very competently in that role.

Thank you very much, again, for your kind words on that as well. And, like you, I’d like to echo the points about the compendium, because as a new Member myself, I’m very grateful to have everything in one place. So, we’re looking forward to working with the new commissioner. He’s already come to the committee on a number of occasions, so he’s going to ensure a smooth transition as well. So, thanks very much.

Thank you to the Chair. I see Gerard Elias in the public gallery. You’re too far away from me for me to work out whether you’ve been blushing at all the praise bestowed on you. But if I may echo the thanks that have been expressed this afternoon from all parts of the Chamber, on behalf of all of us, for the quality of the work that you’ve undertaken on our behalf, and wish you well for the future. Diolch yn fawr. [Applause.]

And we now move on to the Plaid Cymru debate, and I call on Adam Price to move the motion.

Diolch, Lywydd. It’s a great pleasure to propose this motion in the name of my—we don’t have honourable friends in this place, do we? But, he is a friend and he is quite honourable. [Laughter.]

It’s a timely debate, obviously, because we have the fourth national Small Business Saturday coming up, which is taking place across the four nations of the United Kingdom. It’s a nationwide campaign in each of those countries, designed to encourage people to shop locally and support small businesses, and I’m sure that we’re about to hear that it enjoys—I can fully anticipate probably—cross-party support in this Assembly.

Of course, it’s become something of a truism in politics to say that small businesses are the backbone of our economy. But it’s demonstrably true, isn’t it. When we look at the data, small and medium-sized enterprises account for 99 per cent of Welsh business stock, and they provide employment for well over half the private sector workforce. That’s jobs for more than 0.5 million people. And, of course, we’ve seen, as Wales has endured waves—wave after wave, it often feels like—of structural economic change, as we’ve lost many of our heavy industries, and our large employers, unfortunately, have gone by the wayside, it’s the small businesses and the medium-sized businesses of Wales that have had to take up the slack, and they’ve done that heroically in many cases, not under circumstances that anyone would choose, and certainly not of their choosing. So, this debate is about coming up with timely and innovative public policy proposals to support that core economic motor upon which we all rely. We can’t achieve all the things that we want to in terms of the quality of our public services without this wealth-generating engine, which is the foundation of so much that we want to achieve as a nation and as a society. So, this debate is absolutely crucial.

It seems to me that we are at a bit of one of those turning points in the economy. There are positive indicators. If you think about the potential role of small businesses, there are some things to be cheerful about because as a result of new technology—principally, but not exclusively of course, the internet—entry barriers for people who have a good idea and want to run with it have come down. They’ve come down in Wales and right across the world, and that is reflected in rising entrepreneurialism. It is reflected in the kind of buzzing start-up sub-cultures that we see in this city and in towns and cities right across Wales. So, that’s one vision of the future. [Interruption.] Yes, I will give way.

I thank Adam for giving way. Would he note that that’s not only an exclusive innovation within new start-up companies, but actually established high-street companies that may look like very traditional high-street front windows as well? Amongst these is a shoe shop in my constituency, in the Garw valley, in Pontycymer, which looks like a very traditional, if somewhat old-fashioned, quaint shop from the front and yet it has one of the highest internet trades in Dr. Martens in the UK, on the internet.

Yes, absolutely. Are we going to see him sporting those next week as well—or maybe now? [Laughter.]

I think that existing businesses reinventing themselves, absolutely, is as entrepreneurial as the start-up. Possibly we get too taken up with the hype, maybe, purely of the start-up, but actually the role of existing businesses and established businesses, we know, from the work of the FSB on creating the Welsh mittelstand, and having that continuity of rooted businesses and ensuring that there is proper succession planning, is absolutely critical as well.

The nightmare opposite vision of the future, of course, is one in which we all buy our goods from a single, monopoly provider, called Amazon. That’s the hyper-warehouse capitalism vision of the future, where there is a single global supply chain and very little is produced locally, and you see that that embedding that you have through the existence of small businesses within the local economy is lost.

So, how do we get more of the positive vision and how do you get less of the negative one? That is the exam question, if you like, I think, to political parties and to politicians right across the western world at the moment. We’ve set out in our motion some of our ideas and I’m sure we’ll hear some of the other parties’ ideas as well.

When we look at the data, of course, it is a mixed picture. So, on footfall, as we see different patterns of retail emerging, footfall is up: in Cardiff, it’s actually doubled in terms of city centre football—I mean ‘footfall’, but maybe that’s another question entirely; let’s not go down that route—between 2007 and 2015, and there were slight increases in Pontypridd and Bridgend as well. So, it’s not all doom and gloom, but actually if you drill down into the figures—

Will you give way?

Yes, certainly.

Speaking as a Member for Cardiff via the South Wales Central region, will the Member recognise that it is welcome that the footfall has increased in Cardiff centre, but it has predominantly been focused on the St David’s 2 redevelopment, which is an all-singing, all-dancing retail development and eating option and, very often, people don’t break out into the wider Cardiff experience, and that it’s important that the local authority and Welsh Government promote Cardiff in its wider sense and not just the St David’s development?

Yes, absolutely, and he’s anticipated my point really. These shimmering cathedrals of modern retail have an important part to play, of course, and we wouldn’t want people going elsewhere and going further afield to have those kinds of experiences, but when we look at the picture of some of the smaller towns that, traditionally, are particularly associated with smaller businesses and, indeed, as he rightly says, some of the centres within cities as well, we see a different picture, and it is a more negative one. So, large falls in footfall in places like Aberystwyth, Caerphilly and Holyhead, et cetera. That’s partly to do with the effects of online; it’s partly to do with the competition from out-of-town shopping centres as well. We do see, overall, that there has been a significant decline in the number of retail businesses within many of our towns and cities within Wales, and, of course, we have a higher vacancy rate compared to England, for example: about 15 per cent in June this year compared to 11 per cent or 12 per cent in England and Scotland.

So, the challenge of the changing pattern of retail certainly is a very, very important one for us in Wales, and we need to respond to it. Part of the response has to be, as we’ve discussed many times in this Chamber, looking at the issue of business rates. It doesn’t seem to me right that we are actually taxing people that are in physical retail premises effectively at a higher level than those that are trading online. So, we need to have, I think, a more innovative response to that.

In the amendment—we’ve linked this to a wider potential, which is to turn the whole of Wales into an enterprise zone. We need to build some competitive advantage, some comparative advantage, for our businesses overall—that’s small, medium-sized and others. It’s not an original idea, I must confess, making the whole of Wales—as the Cabinet Secretary knows, but I’m not referring to the article in ‘The Spectator’. Actually, it was the Ulster Unionist Party that recently called for Northern Ireland to be made an enterprise zone as a whole, so I’m not sure that’s the kind of Celtic alliance that my friend behind me would have supported. But good ideas can come from any direction, and, certainly, we need to be looking at coming up with new and innovative ideas that give our businesses, particularly the small and medium-sized businesses and start-ups, et cetera, that kind of edge.

Procurement—again, a key issue. We obviously have rehearsed many times the importance of the public sector, and I think my colleagues will refer to that, but I would also urge us to look at the private sector. Let’s look at what our large private sector businesses can do as well in terms of local procurement. Why could we not actually have a buy local and buy Welsh campaign that includes the private sector and have a kitemark for corporate local responsibility, if you like, so that we know that, even when we are shopping or having business with larger businesses, they themselves are actually locked into a local supply chain? The Romanian Government have just passed a Bill that insists that 51 per cent of food in local supermarkets in Romania is part of what they call the ‘short supply chain’—that is, it’s basically part of the local food system. And they are still within the European Union. It’s a much more creative interpretation possibly than we’ve had up until now in terms of EU procurement rules. If they can do it, then, certainly, we can as well.

The development bank, the national infrastructure commission—these new institutions that we’re going to create absolutely need to listen to the needs of small businesses. Small businesses haven’t always had—they have the FSB now, but they haven’t always perhaps had the lobbying power of large businesses. Sometimes, when we look then at creating these institutions, the needs of small businesses are ignored. I’m glad to see that the business case for the development bank, in particular, is emphasising the need of providing loans to microbusinesses. Similarly, with the national infrastructure commission, I know what the small businesses in Wales think is the pressing infrastructure need. It’s not actually the bottlenecks of the M4, it’s the bottlenecks in our digital infrastructure, it’s the inability to get connected to the same extent that businesses around the world are. That’s where, I’m sure, they would like to see us invest.

I have selected the six amendments to the motion. If amendment 1 is agreed, amendments 2, 3, 4, 5 and 6 will be deselected. I call on the Cabinet Secretary for Economy and Infrastructure to move formally amendment 1 tabled in the name of Jane Hutt.

Move.

I call on Nick Ramsay to move amendments 2, 3, 4, 5 and 6 tabled in the name of Paul Davies.

Diolch, Presiding Officer. I’m pleased to contribute to this debate and to move the Welsh Conservatives’ amendments in Paul Davies’s name. As our amendments highlight, Wales has the worst high-street vacancy rate in the UK, and footfall is down by 1.4 per cent, compared with October 2015. Okay, one of many statistics, but an important statistic nonetheless. I think we are all very well aware of the important role our high streets play in local economies across Wales, and that’s in urban and rural parts of Wales. We’ve had many, many debates—some of us more than others—in this Chamber about this over the years. I’ve spoken in many of them, and, in the last Assembly, I chaired the Enterprise and Business Committee’s report into high-street regeneration. I’ve got a copy of it here. It still makes very pertinent reading. That report made a number of recommendations—21, in fact. How many of those recommendations that were accepted at the time by the Welsh Government have been acted on? Indeed, in those days, the revaluation was not even on our radar, but there were other issues to do with the decline of our high streets that were on the radar, and which the Welsh Government was aware of. Three years on, I think it is important we do have an update on the implementation of those recommendations.

There’s no doubt at all that we need an integrated approach, which involves a close relationship between the Welsh Government on the one hand, the retail industry, a simplified planning system, and business rate reform. Of course, although this is one of those catch-all, or catch-many-things, motions that includes many different aspects, uppermost in our minds over the last few weeks has been the impact of the business rates revaluation. I have to say, turning to the Government’s amendment to this motion—well, it’s almost an alternative motion, I suppose you would call it—yes, we know that the revaluation is not designed to raise additional revenue, and we know that, overall, rates have fallen, but that doesn’t help those businesses that have been affected by an increase in rates. Let’s not forget that those businesses that have seen increases have, in many cases, seen nothing less than eye-watering increases. Only yesterday I received an e-mail from a constituent with a business in Tintern, who said, I quote, ‘It is with concern that I note the increase to my business rates of 60 per cent, which I think is unreasonable, unjustifiable and plainly diabolical. We are a visitor centre, which we could not run from a lock-up shop.’— Could not run from an internet site, indeed. ‘There is no admission charge. Your decision’—and this was addressed primarily to the Valuation Office Agency, copied to me—’Your decision will ultimately be the making of whether we continue in business or not.’

There was another one received a couple of days ago: ‘I’ve just received the revised rateable value for my business, and due to, at present, a non-increase in the small business rate relief threshold, my business will be charged, for 2017, nearly £2,500 that it is not charged now. I cannot support this cost and it will cause my business to close.’ The e-mail goes on: ‘Can you please advise how this can be avoided, or please come to my shop-closing sale that I intend to hold?’

Heart-wrenching, heart-rending e-mails from people who are at the end of their tether now they realise the effect that this will have on their businesses.

Cabinet Secretary, this is a deeply worrying situation. If nothing is done, we could see a loss of small businesses next year on a scale not previously seen, at least in those parts of Wales where the worst effects are seen. That will have a knock-on effect for high streets, employment and shoppers. This cannot be the intention. I’m sure it’s not the intention of the revaluation or the Welsh Government. Our businesses need action and reassurance, so we therefore support the call to expand the transitional relief available to small businesses affected by this revaluation. These aren’t just statistics; these are real people with livelihoods, staff to employ, and families to raise. Making ends meet can be difficult enough, as we know, without these sorts of rates hikes.

As the motion says, the current business rates system places a disproportionate burden on small businesses here, compared with the rest of the UK. At the end of the day, this is also a question of fairness. The Labour Party have always proclaimed to be the party of fairness—or always did—so, I don’t see how you can stand by and allow such a disparity to develop between the winners and the losers, both within Wales and, indeed, between Wales and across the border, where we have seen different relief support packages coming through.

To close, Presiding Officer, and just turning briefly to the last parts of the motion, we believe a target to increase procurement levels is a good idea. Levels of Welsh procurement are way less than they should be. I met with a local engineering firm in Chepstow last year that had given up on applying for contracts this side of the border because of the dominance of larger firms in the process. So, we need a greater weighting towards local firms and, yes, a buy-local strategy would be a very positive development. So, there’s a lot of good things in this motion. In conclusion, I thank Plaid Cymru for bringing it forward. Let’s get on with the job of regenerating our high streets and providing necessary support for our local businesses, so that they may flourish, put money back into the local economy, and improve the local economic environment for everyone.

My comments relate to section 2 of the motion, which refers to parking charges. Empty town centres and boarded-up shops are an all too familiar sight across Wales, despite attempts to liven things up with a little bit of tinsel and Christmas lights at this time of year. The decline of the high street across Wales reminds us that we need a strategy from the Government to support local businesses in our communities. As we’ve heard, it is becoming increasingly difficult for commercial operators to survive on the high street. Whilst developments on the outskirts of towns flourish, and online shopping is on the increase, high-street retailers are seeking support from Welsh Government. In my constituency, in Bangor, one in five shops is empty, although I have to say that there are signs that things are improving since establishing the business improvement district in that area.

In another town, Caernarfon, it’s a story of success as independent, niche operators create excitement. So, the picture isn’t an entirely bleak one. Following an agreement on the budget between Plaid Cymru and the Welsh Government, a fund of £3 million has been established that will enable local authorities to pilot the use of parking facilities for free in town centres across Wales. This will also enable local authorities to assess the actual effect of this on the regeneration of town centres. I hasten to add that it’s not free parking every hour of the day, every day of the week, every week of the year, in all car parks: that isn’t the answer. That’s not a realistic thing, to start off with, and it could also militate against the intention, with office workers misusing the scheme and parking there through the day, for example, meaning that there wouldn’t be room for people who want to come to the town centres to shop.

Evidence from Welsh Government itself has shown that out-of-town destinations that offer free parking benefit at the expense of town centres. Lots of councils across Wales do offer free parking schemes over the Christmas period in an attempt to attract people to spend their money in town centres. Gwynedd Council, for example, this week has stated that it wants to offer free parking across the county to encourage people to visit our town centres over the Christmas period. But what our motion today notes is our success in establishing a new fund that will allow local authorities to offer free parking facilities at specific times in towns across Wales. In Plaid Cymru’s opinion, this will be a fund that will allow local authorities to make a bid for a grant to offer free parking for a few hours to support towns that really need that support. We would need specific criteria to ensure that specific towns qualify for this scheme. I think that the best way forward would be to create a pot of money that local authorities could bid for, and then to have criteria for the funds. For example, a council would put a bid in for £100,000, say, to offer free parking for three hours a day for a year in a small, convenient car park near the town centre, and the funds then would go partly to compensate the council for the fees that they would lose. The bids would have to be measured against criteria—for example, a high street that has lost such and such amount of footfall for such and such a time, a car park near the high street, and an explanation of why the council thinks that it would make a difference. The council would have to measure the success of the scheme as well in order to increase the evidence available related to the effectiveness of offering free parking in increasing use. The fund should allow councils to trial the scheme in specific areas.

So, that’s an outline of some ideas about how we should go about implementing this fund, and we look forward to being part of that discussion, if possible, so that we do develop a scheme that is viable and is genuinely going to have an effect.,

We need a holistic strategy to regenerate our high streets. Offering free car parking as a policy on its own, of course, isn’t going to solve the whole problem. But Welsh Government does need to try and pilot these kinds of alternative schemes to try to overturn this historic decline.

This Saturday, as part of Small Business Saturday, I’ll be visiting a range of small businesses that enrich my constituency, starting with the Headmistress hairdresser at the Maelfa shopping centre in Llanedeyrn, celebrating 40 years cutting and shaping the hair of local residents. I’m sure that, during that time, she has listened to all the achievements and disappointments, including the births, deaths and marriages that mark the milestones in people’s lives. Next, I will go to the excellent butchers next door—the best butcher in Cardiff by a long way—a man who knows exactly where all his meat and eggs come from, and makes his delicious pies himself. What’s not to like about a stew pack at £2.96 a kilo, which even the poorest family can afford, as well as the fabulous salt marsh lamb, and other cuts for special occasions? I’ll then walk across the corridor to the fruit and veg shop, run by another local member of the corridor. Every day for the last 40 years, she has left home at 5 o’clock in the morning to go to Bessemer Road wholesale market to make sure she gets the best value fresh produce for her customers. She delivers bulky items like sacks of potatoes to people who don’t have cars.

These people provide a service to their community and aren’t just interested in the bottom line. That is one of the fundamentals of small businesses. So, I’ll add my voice to those encouraging people to spend at least £10 in local shops this Saturday. We either use them or lose them, and people need to be mindful of the community cohesion they offer beyond the ability of the warehouse emporiums, which have a role for dry goods or large wholesale purchases, but can never replicate the intimacy and community cohesion of small businesses. That’s why Labour-run Cardiff council is investing £1 million to regenerate the Maelfa shopping centre, and I salute them for it.

Turning now to the contribution of Nick Ramsay, the glass-half-empty approach, I’d like to point out to him that, compared with the Welsh Labour scheme, where more than 70 per cent of small businesses in Wales will receive support either through the retail relief scheme or the other schemes that are available—. Compare that with the UK Government, run by your party, where only a third of business rate payers will pay no rates at all. Over 60 per cent in Wales will not be paying, so I think that we need to get some balance into this debate about the immense support that the Welsh Government—[Interruption.] Yes, I’m happy to do that.

I’m very grateful to you for giving way on that. I did actually say in my contribution that, on average, there is a reduction in rates across Wales. So, I did acknowledge that. My point was that, for those businesses in those parts of Wales that have been affected, they have been particularly badly affected. I think it would be a complacent approach not to recognise that, and to put in particular measures for those businesses so that they don’t have to suffer. We don’t want anyone to suffer from this revaluation.

Okay, I understand that. But there is also a further fund to assist with transition where businesses have seen a rate rise. We have to remember that the valuation office is an independent body, as is highlighted in amendment 1. It is independent of both Welsh Government and the UK Government.

While some rateable values have increased, overall they have fallen as part of this revaluation. There’s £10 million on the table in transitional relief to businesses that have been particularly affected, so more than three quarters of all businesses in Wales will receive some form of tax cut to cover their rate bills over the next year. There’s going to be, over the next year, £200 million in financial assistance to businesses through mandatory and discretionary reliefs.

I’m also very proud of the work that’s done to regenerate town centres through Vibrant and Viable Places—£110 million to bring town centres back to life, since 2014 up until next year—new affordable housing, upgraded community facilities, creating jobs, supporting people into work and securing additional investment, mainly through the EU.

Car parking—I just want to highlight the fact that car parking is not the panacea for regenerating communities. There’s lots of examples of where free car parking actually prevents people who need to shop from actually getting a place. So, there’s lots of interesting examples produced by Sustrans that people actually want better facilities for pedestrians and cyclists and that they are more likely to return to the high street and spend more money over time than customers arriving by car. Unlimited free parking hurts high streets.

Outside the UK, in New York, new bike lanes and removal of parking boosted trade on Eighth Avenue compared to other areas of the city. And an innovative approach used in San Francisco has demand-sensitive charging where the parking price changes depending on how many spaces are filled, ensuring turnover of customers at busy times. I think that’s a really interesting bit of evidence from across the world. We have to look in detail at what works. Cheaper car parking is not the panacea to make our high streets a success again.

I will be mainly focusing on business rates, but if I could just follow up on what Jenny Rathbone has just said, no-one is making the case that city centre parking is a panacea in any way. But they should be recognised by their actions, and I notice that the Labour council in Rhondda Cynon Taf have just announced free parking over the Christmas period in order to promote town centres in that area. So, you must take action yourself if you are to criticise others.

But I want to focus on business rates, and the opportunities provided by reforming business rates to regenerate many of our town centres. I will be spending Small Business Saturday visiting small businesses, and I hope to be in Narberth, one of the towns which has succeeded and demonstrated how changes to business rates can regenerate the centre of a small town. There was a business rates holiday over a long period in Narberth in order to allow new businesses to be established and to actually break that link that you would have to commit for a long period to take over a property. Anyone who’s visited Narberth will now realise that that approach has led to a number of small businesses establishing, from butchers to craft shops to food outlets, but also everyday shops. So, you can go to Narberth and find what you need for your weekly shop and pay very little to park, if I may say, for an hour or two.

But it’s also true to say that the Government hasn’t responded to the increase in business rates in an appropriate manner that actually learns lessons from towns such as Narberth and other towns in Wales. We are at risk of creating a business rates system that could be among the highest in Britain, and I don’t think that that puts the local high street in an ideal position by any stretch of the imagination. I don’t think that the Government is demonstrating that they want to see the kind of local market establishing itself, as Adam Price outlined in opening the debate. We’re about to move to a system where, in terms of the rates, we in Wales will be the most expensive in that regard in Britain. That doesn’t give us that edge, and it doesn’t show support for businesses, and it doesn’t actually put businesses in that competitive position that we would like to see in promoting our small businesses on the high street.

That, of course, is a pledge broken by the Government. They pledged to have an improved system in their manifesto, and of course we saw the greatest spin possible that continuing the current regime was in some way a cut in business rates. Well, the small businesses have seen through that spin and have seen that the devolution of business rates hasn’t benefitted them in the most appropriate way. I do hope that this will be a temporary system, because if we are serious about developing the economy, we must use all economic tools possible. We have very few of these tools, and there aren’t many provided by the Wales Bill either. But we do know that business rates are one of the most powerful tools that we have in our armoury—outwith the block grant, of course. So it’s one of the things where we can make a difference.

One thing that we can do and consider in earnest here in Wales is to change the multiplier to the CPI, rather than RPI. Another thing that we could look at is why on earth we have one multiplier across the whole of Wales. Not all areas of Wales are the same; not all businesses are the same. In Scotland, they have different multipliers for small businesses and larger businesses, and I would like us to look at that—[Interruption.] In just a second, yes. But I would hope that we could look at regional multipliers, too. For example, I’m always banging on about the Cleddau bridge being tolled, and that is a toll on small businesses in an enterprise zone. We can consider how we could use the business levy to respond to the toll in that area. I will give way on that point.