National Assembly for Wales

Good afternoon and welcome to today's Plenary meeting. Before I call on the First Minister to answer questions, on behalf of us all as a Senedd, I extend our condolences to you, First Minister, and to your family, on your sad loss recently. 

The first item, therefore, will be questions to the First Minister, and the first question this afternoon is from Mike Hedges. 

We're not just supporting and developing co-operatives, the Welsh Labour Government is championing them, because we know they work. Wales now has 533 co-ops, and that number is growing. Co-operatives keep wealth local, create decent jobs and put communities in control. Through Social Business Wales, we're providing specialist advice and funding to help new co-ops start up and existing ones to scale up. 

Can I thank the First Minister for that response, and can I declare that I'm a member of the Co-operative Party? I'm an enthusiastic advocate for co-operative housing. In most of Europe and North America, housing co-operatives are a common form of housing provision. Despite some Government support, and the involvement of Cwmpas, Wales is still not building co-operative housing at the scale that it's happening in the rest of Europe and North America. Will the First Minister support that, when teaching entrepreneurship in schools and colleges, the promotion of the co-op model, as one of the entrepreneurship models, is one that is promoted, and for this to then be followed by support for co-operatives and mutual investment start-ups in Wales?

Diolch yn fawr, Mike. As you know, Social Business Wales provides comprehensive advice to support co-operatives and social enterprise, and we also have Cwmpas, of course, which is Wales's leading co-operative agency. Certainly, one of the things that they've done is that they are working with about 50 groups, and they have over 300 homes in the pipeline. Could they do more? There's always room to do more. So, certainly, I know that Dream Homes in Swansea is an example of that co-operative model being used. 

You asked about schools. The Big Ideas Wales programme helps make sure that young people in schools develop enterprise skills, and that is being done in classrooms across our country. So, that's showing them how co-ops and social enterprises can be a real career, not just a lesson. 

First Minister, sadly, the biggest barrier to social enterprise in Wales remains the Chancellor of the Exchequer. Next week, we have Rachel Reeves's latest budget, which is likely to be as anti-business as her last one. These decisions impact social enterprises as much as they do companies limited by guarantee. First Minister, how can we possibly hope to encourage more employee-owned companies when we have such a hostile taxation regime? What discussions have you had with the UK Treasury about reducing the burden on co-operatives, as well as traditional businesses?

Thanks very much. Altaf, you'll understand if I won't take any lessons from a Tory on how to run an economy, and certainly when it comes to a budget. We all remember Liz Truss's particular budget, and we are still paying the price for that today. When it comes to what we're doing in Wales, I think it's probably worth emphasising that we doubled employee-owned businesses this Senedd term. That is a proud record, and we are also very proud of the fact that we established, in 2022, the Perthyn project, and that was to provide local, early stage support to Welsh-speaking communities in north and west Wales. And now that that has been expanded beyond that, that's something I'm particularly proud of. Last month, we had the latest round of the £400,000 Perthyn grants, and, as I say, that's now been opened up to the whole of Wales. And that has already helped 65 community groups in Wales, holding people in their own communities, making sure that it's their communities who are benefiting from that growth and enterprise.

Education is going to be a key part of the future of the co-operative movement in the UK. And we also need to move away from this idea that this is a completely different way of doing business. It's just another way of doing business. It's still a private entity that still needs to make profit. But what I want to pick up on is something that the First Minister said in her answer to Mike Hedges, around scaling up co-operatives. We really need to evolve our thinking now around co-operatives and social enterprises, going beyond simply just wanting to see more of them and doubling the size of the sector. The scaling-up piece really needs to be a priority for the Government, so that we have co-operatives that aren't simply just employing 10 or 20 people, but actually are employing thousands of people. So, what I would like to get an understanding from the First Minister on is whether or not it is a priority for her to simply increase the number or to do that scale-up piece. The reality is the capacity within the sector at the moment can't do both. Which one would be a priority for the First Minister: scaling up or just simply increasing the number?

I think we've got to do both, and Cwmpas does precisely that. It not just encourages people and gives advice to organisations on how to develop this particular model, but also on scaling up what already exists. So, I think we have to make sure that that is still a focus. The fact is that we have seen a 13 per cent increase when it comes to social businesses in Wales, compared to 2022. I think that's a proud record. Do I want to go further? I always want to go further. I'm very proud of the fact that I've recently joined the Co-operative Party. It took me a while—I don't know why it's taken me quite so long, but I'm there now. [Laughter.]

Health workers in Pembrokeshire are working flat out to make sure they try and meet the massive demand that exists. I understand that there are always frustrations, and there's room for improvement, and there's a long way to go. But, the good news is that waiting times are coming down. In Hywel Dda health board, we've seen a 95 per cent drop in people waiting over 52 weeks for out-patient appointments, and an 89 per cent reduction in waits over 104 weeks. What that means is thousands more people getting care faster. But, let me be clear: the job is not done. That's why we've given Hywel Dda an extra £8 million this year, specifically to drive down waiting times.

First Minister, as you are aware, Hywel Dda University Health Board held a public consultation over the summer regarding its plans for clinical services within the health board area. Throughout the process, I have made it clear that I do not support any proposals that result in the removal of services from Withybush hospital. I'm particularly concerned about the potential impact of some of the proposals, such as the possible removal of the intensive care unit and emergency general surgery services. I firmly believe that the people of Pembrokeshire should not have to travel further to access essential healthcare services. My constituents have made it very clear that they oppose the health board's continued downgrading and centralisation of services. Now, First Minister, you also represent the people of Pembrokeshire, and I therefore urge you to oppose any plans that would take services away from the people that we represent. So, can you tell us what discussions you've had with Hywel Dda University Health Board about its clinical services plan, and what reassurances can you offer the people of Pembrokeshire that they will not have to travel further for essential services in the future?

Thanks very much. I know that the health board is developing its clinical services plan. That aims to drive improvement, particularly in service fragility. We've got some services where they are utterly dependent on one particular consultant. We need to look at sustainability and quality and performance. Now, what I understand is that people feel very strongly about their local health services. I have, clearly, made representations in my capacity as a regional member to the chair of the board, but no decision has been made by Hywel Dda University Health Board about the future of identified services in its clinical services plan. I think what we must focus on is sustainability and outcomes—what are the best outcomes we can expect for the public?

Of course, one of the important things about providing services is about getting them closer to home. So, I'd be interested to know about the shift towards care closer to home. That includes, I hope, community pathways, the pharmacy and the optometry reforms, which are all making life a lot easier, by the results that I'm having from those people who use them. Of course, in turn, that relieves the pressure on the hospitals, so that we haven't got people in the wrong place at the wrong time, because they understand what the pharmacies can do for them and the optometrists, and they've had the new contracts that we have given them money towards.

Thanks, Joyce. You're absolutely right, particularly in rural areas like Pembrokeshire, that getting care close to home is not a luxury, it's a lifeline. For many older people or people who can't easily travel, a long trip to hospital can be quite tough, and that's why it's important that we make sure that there are mechanisms for people to get there, particularly those without cars.

When we're talking about community pathways, I think Hywel Dda, of all the health boards, have understood that you do need to try and provide as much community support as possible. We're doing it through pharmacies. It's amazing that 28 different conditions can be seen in our pharmacies in local communities. We've seen optometry reforms, so that you can go right into the centre of Haverfordwest, for example, and get your eyesight not just tested, but actually tested for all kinds of conditions. It is making a difference.

When I visited Withybush recently, I was shown the remote monitoring kits that they're using to support patients at home. Certainly, seeing that, for me, really brought it back to life. It's simple, it's effective, and it means that people can stay safe and well in familiar surroundings whilst being monitored by clinical experts. That's certainly the shift that I'd like to see in future.

Questions now from the party leaders. The leader of the Welsh Conservatives, Darren Millar.

Diolch, Llywydd. First Minister, yesterday, I visited Monmouth and I saw for myself the devastation that was wrought by storm Claudia there over the weekend. Of course, Monmouth was not the only community that was affected by flooding; there were many others that were likewise hit by those storms. I want to put on record my party's thanks to all of those who responded in the aftermath of those floods, particularly the emergency services, the local authority teams, the faith groups, the volunteers, and everybody else who rallied around to try and help those who were affected. Their efforts have been absolutely outstanding.

The scenes, of course, in Monmouth were extraordinary. Those were the ones that captured the headlines. The River Monnow overtopped the flood defences. It swept right through the centre of the town at a pace that nobody could have expected. Homes were inundated, elderly residents had to be evacuated in the middle of the night, and, of course, entire businesses were left destroyed with us being just weeks away from Christmas. I met some of those home owners, I met some of those businesses, and I met the wonderful people in places like the Methodist chapel that have been helping to respond to what happened. While those individuals are incredibly resilient, and the people of Monmouth and some of those other communities are incredibly resilient, it seems very clear to me that they need the help of the Welsh Government to get back on their feet. So, can you set out today, in clear and practical terms, what immediate support the Welsh Government will provide to those who have been affected as they begin the long and painful process of rebuilding their lives?

Thanks very much, Darren. We all know how devastating the impact of these floods can be on people, on their mental health, on their businesses, on their communities. I think one of the things we've seen in Monmouthshire, as we saw in Carmarthenshire last week, is that community resilience—people coming together. You see the very best of humanity under these conditions. It's particularly difficult to see that happening to businesses just before Christmas. I'd like to thank the Deputy First Minister for going to visit on the weekend. I spoke to the leader of Monmouthshire council, who I think has done a sterling job of leading her council and the community in pulling together the emergency services. NRW gave a lot of warnings; we knew this was coming. And we've been offered support by the Prime Minister. It is, of course, important that we stand with these communities, and that's why we have the emergency financial assistance schemes for these very scenarios. I know that the propositions are being built up as we speak, and local government finance officials are working to establish what support can be provided.

Thank you for that answer, First Minister. I also met with Natural Resources Wales yesterday, and the chief executive of the local authority, and they tell me that the flood defences in Monmouth have been there since 1991—that's when they were installed. They were designed to meet the standard required at that time and which was anticipated in the future. But, of course, we're now many years on from then—over 30 years on—and times have changed, models have changed. They told me, Natural Resources Wales, that the defences came very close to overtopping last year too. And of course, that means that people are going to be on edge, even if they do return to their homes, even if they do rebuild their lives.

Now, when we had serious storms back in 2020, the Welsh Government commissioned an independent review of what happened in those storms and the response of the various agencies to getting to grips with the problems. It made recommendations and a report was published, but it was three and a half years after the event. Now, we've got to make sure that we learn lessons from these events quickly. So, what assurances can you give that a rapid review will now be undertaken into what's happened, and that speedy action will be taken to invest, as is necessary, to improve those flood defences and help this community, particularly in Monmouth, to get back on its feet, given that it was the hardest hit?

Thanks very much. We can, and we do, try and prepare for situations like this, but when you get five inches of rain in five hours you get a situation that was much worse in Monmouthshire than even the storms of Bert and Dennis. So, we didn't see that absolute inundation and the impact it would have. But there was as much preparation as could have been possible. Everybody gave all the warnings in advance. And I'd like to put on record my thanks to the emergency services for their sterling work in relation to this, but also to the communities, who've absolutely come together, who are working together and making sure that they are responding.

Look, when it comes to investment, we have got a really proud record on this: £375 million this Senedd term, we've protected 45,000 homes, and we're proposing £77 million next year. We are committed to this agenda. This is, actually, addressing the issue of net zero. Sometimes, you talk against the need for addressing net zero. This is an example of where you have to prepare for a changing climate, a changing environment. And you ask about reviewing—we review after every event. Every single time, there is a group that comes together, that assesses—'What did we do? Could it be done better?'—and it's always used and always improved for the next one that comes along.

I don't think anyone is questioning that reviews do take place—of course they take place, and it's quite right that they do, but it shouldn't take three and a half years to get a review if a community has been flooded. That's what happened with the independent review last time. It was published three and a half years after the events in the storms of early 2020. And, as I said, look, First Minister, Christmas is just around the corner. These are communities that need support and protection now, not in many months' time, not in many years' time. They need emergency funding to be made available to help people get back on their feet and to get those businesses operating in the all-important weeks before Christmas. Now, as you know, Welsh Government Ministers have the power to be able to trigger that emergency funding under the Bellwin scheme in these sorts of situations. Now, you've been incredibly generous as a Welsh Government to those who've been affected by disasters overseas in recent years, but communities here in Wales right now need your support. So, can I urge you to pull that emergency funding trigger to get the help into the hands of those Welsh families and businesses affected by flooding who desperately need it?

Thanks very much. Just to be absolutely clear, it takes days for us to review and learn lessons, so that is already being done, I can assure you; from what we did last year with Bert and Dennis, and even from a few days ago in Carmarthenshire, we are constantly learning. It does not take years. The second thing to say is, as I've told you already, local government finance officials are already working to establish what support can be provided. We're looking at how we provide that funding in the least bureaucratic way and making sure we can get that funding out as soon as possible.

Plaid Cymru leader, Rhun ap Iorwerth.  

Diolch, Llywydd. The floods that hit many parts of Wales over the weekend significantly impacted lives and livelihoods, along with transport infrastructure. It's another reminder, isn't it, of the urgent need to ensure that we are resilient enough to withstand ever-increasing extreme weather conditions. I'd like to pay tribute too to the tireless work of the emergency services and other responders in Monmouth in particular and send our best wishes to all those impacted. I will write to the First Minister later today, seeking assurances that the Welsh Government will undertake an urgent assessment of our preparedness for extreme weather conditions this winter and beyond, and Government's ability to respond.

Our ability to invest, of course, depends on fair funding, so I will move on to questions about fair funding. We're often told that different views in different parts of the UK on the way Treasury funding works are a barrier to changing the outdated Barnett formula. Maybe that's why, on 9 October, the Cabinet Secretary for finance was adamant that the Finance: Interministerial Standing Committee was not the forum to advance the case for a needs-based funding formula for Wales. Indeed, he told Heled Fychan, and I quote,

'if you think that the FISC is a good place to make progress on it, then, I'm afraid, if you were around the table, you would see that it's absolutely not the context where you're likely to make any progress.'

Does this remain the Government's position?

Thanks very much. Before I answer your question, I'm sure you'd like to join with me in welcoming the massive investment in jobs in your own constituency, in Anglesey, in Wylfa, and also the north Wales AI growth zone—a double win for Wales, thousands of jobs being created, the biggest investment in a generation and a transformative opportunity for the community he represents. So, I think that's wonderful news.

Just in terms of the preparations for winter, we made a statement just a couple of weeks ago precisely on this point, and obviously the issue of flooding and preparing for what might come was made at that point.

When you talk about the Barnett formula, look, we've never hidden from the fact that we'd like to see a review. We know that FISC is a place to bring up this issue. Of course, what we need is a political decision from the top of the UK Government. I can assure you I keep on pressing for this issue.

My question, of course, was on comments by the Cabinet Secretary that FISC was not the place to discuss this, but I think that Government needs to get its story straight, because a few weeks on from saying that progress couldn't be made at that four-nations finance Minister forum, the Cabinet Secretary for finance confirmed in a written answer that he's agreed that FISC is the place where Barnett will be discussed, albeit improving its operation rather than its abolition.

Now last week, the Deputy First Minister, to much fanfare, suggested that Barnett had been promoted high up the UK Government's agenda and that there’d been some sort of breakthrough moment. In fact, it turns out that all he was doing was dressing up a regular meeting of a committee that was happening anyway. So, can the First Minister confirm what the Welsh Government will be asking for, and by when, as part of discussions now with UK Government, or is it the case that Labour still has no plan to secure fair funding for Wales?

Well, thanks very much. Certainly, we have always said that we want to see reform of the Barnett formula. We're not talking about replacing the Barnett formula, because if he’d read, actually, the report by Cardiff University recently, he'd have seen that the Barnett floor, which was negotiated in part by the finance Secretary, actually ensured that we've got £1 billion of extra finance as a result of that Barnett floor. So, we have to make sure that, when we look at reforming, we don't lose out. There is the potential that this could go the wrong way for us, and I want to make sure that that doesn't happen, and that Barnett floor that the finance Secretary negotiated is absolutely critical to that.

Listen, my focus is on getting as much additional money into Wales as possible. Last week, we got £2.5 billion extra direct investment as a result of the contribution from the UK Government to Wylfa. There are other examples, which will leverage massive, massive investment, which will of course help to provide jobs, bring in the taxation. Those are the focuses that I'm absolutely concentrated on when it comes to the budget.

I disagree. I think Barnett should be replaced, and former Labour First Ministers have called for Barnett to be replaced. But, of course, yes, we are talking about the whole way Barnett is applied, and what is not included. HS2, course, exposed the fact that there are many dimensions to the unfair and unsustainable treatment of Wales by Westminster. But you've only got to look at Welsh Government's own budget for next year to see how vital it is that the funding injustice is addressed. Had there been a broad needs-based funding system in place already, the next Welsh Government wouldn't find itself in such a perilous position. We were told there was significant headroom left in next year's budget, but, as things currently stand, giving all that headroom to the health service would still leave the NHS with a historically low increase in Wales, far less than in England, and leave council tax bills out of control and local government having to make redundancies on an unprecedented scale. Now, you do wonder why there was such a fanfare after the publication of the comprehensive spending review, but does the First Minister regret the fact that the so-called 'partnership in power' is still clearly leaving Wales's public services in such a perilous position?

I'll tell you what will leave our public services in a perilous position is if we can't get our budget through. That is the truth of it. So, we can ask for anything we want from the UK Government; if we don't do our job here, in this Senedd, then it's the people on the front lines in our communities that will be paying the price, and I do hope that we can negotiate with all the different parties in this place to make sure that we are delivering for the Welsh people.

I do notice that you still haven't welcomed the money for Wylfa, having asked on two occasions. But also can I just point out that there were significant increases in the budget from last year, and they didn't support it? If they'd had their way, we would have seen—[Interruption.]—we would have seen cuts last year compared to this year. So, let's be clear: austerity is over. We have seen £1.6 billion of additional funding going to our front-line services, and you are trying to block money from going to our front-line services. I do hope that—[Interruption.] I do hope that, in future, we will see a change in approach compared to what we saw in the budget last year.

The Welsh Labour Government is doing more to protect people needing care than anywhere else in the United Kingdom, and that's a fact. We've kept the capital limit at £50,000, the most generous in Britain, protecting people's life savings. Care home workers earn at least the real living wage, and we uplifted the revenue support grant, which helps local authorities pay for care, by an average of 4.5 per cent this year, and of course, on top of that, we have a cap on domiciliary care of £100 a week. But I think what matters is fairness, and we've introduced a national commissioning framework, and it's really important that local authorities, the health boards, apply these rules in a fair way.

Diolch. Rather like local government settlements, as you rightly pointed out there, there needs to be a fairness in this process. Now, in my constituency of Aberconwy, not only have we lost beds in care homes, we have lost care homes. We cannot afford to lose any more care homes, due to the older population. Now, you are aware, because I've written in about this, that if a resident is moved from funded nursing care to continuing healthcare—so that's a higher level of care—the care home then receives less, which just does not make sense. Betsi Cadwaladr health board pay £1,217, which is £108.52 less than anywhere else. Having raised formal concerns with the Welsh Government, a response came from Ms Dawn Bowden, Minister for Children and Social Care, last week, saying her team had liaised with the health board and ascertained that whilst £82 million is spent on meeting, you keep having to top it up by about £32 million. Bear in mind that this money is then topped up. Why not just give them the money in the first place and allow that certainty for those care home owners and, indeed, the very vulnerable patients and residents that they look after? 

Care homes receive much of their funding directly from the NHS via the continuing NHS healthcare, and the fee rates for care and support services are set and agreed by local authorities and health boards. Commissioners must set fee rates that reflect the true cost of care, transparently and in partnership with providers, and I think it's probably worth noting that Conwy's rates were raised by 20 per cent in 2024-25, and they're now above the CHC base rate in north Wales, as well as being higher than some other local authority rates.

We don't just talk about children's rights; Welsh Labour delivers on this issue. We were the first country in the UK to enshrine the United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child in law back in 2011. We were also the first country to appoint a children's commissioner, and we introduced legislation to remove the 'reasonable punishment' defence for hitting children. We gave the vote to 16 and 17-year-olds and we are providing free school meals to every primary school pupil, and so far, 52 million meals have been served, with the figure still rising.

Diolch. It's a proud record, isn't it, but it's being undermined by your partners in Westminster. A case has been brought to me where a boy seeking asylum was offered a place at a local football academy, but couldn't take it up because of UK immigration rules. These rules classify academy players as professional sportspersons requiring a right to work, though he wouldn't have received any pay. The Football Association of Wales share my concern that this policy unfairly limits opportunities for young players to develop their potential, and they've made representations to the Home Office, but to no avail. While a rules-based immigration system is essential, when such inflexible rules are stopping children from playing football, and all that can offer them as regards good mental health, social inclusion and happiness, they must be looked at again.

Under the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child, which your Government is committed to, as you've stated, article 31 guarantees every child the right to participate in sport and recreation, and article 2 protects them from discrimination. The Welsh Refugee Council and the children's commissioner have also expressed concerns about the impact of immigration rules on children's rights under the UNCRC. So, will the Welsh Government press the UK Government to change this policy? And is the Welsh Government concerned that its commitment to children's rights will be undermined by the proposals put forward by the Home Secretary on immigration, which will see children placed in deportation centres and ripped from their communities and friends?

Thanks very much. I think we've all seen the terrible scenes of people crossing the channel in boats, particularly when you see children and how many children have died under these circumstances. None of us want to see that situation. We are proud of our position in relation to children's rights in Wales. I'm particularly sad to hear the example you gave there, and I will undertake to make my own personal representation to the Home Office in relation to that case.

First Minister, I noticed the platitude that you gave my colleague in response to her question about children's rights, but it sounds a little bit hollow to me in light of the lack of protection your Government is giving young girls in Wales. Not only do we have a UK inquiry into grooming gangs that lies in tatters, and are yet to see a Wales-led inquiry, but it has now been over six months since the Supreme Court judgment made its landmark decision to recognise women as biological sex only under the Equality Act 2010. And still not a peep from the Welsh Government about protecting girls' rights in sports and changing rooms. So, First Minister, do you believe in protecting girls' rights? If so, why haven't you acted upon this ruling? Thank you.

Look, I am interested in making sure that we talk about all children's rights, including the fact that we've got this proud record. We've ended reasonable punishment for hitting children. We've given 16 and 17-year-olds votes. We've provided free school meals to every primary school, and we are the first nation in the UK to ban profit making from children's residential care. I am more interested in focusing on that kind of thing than in participating in your culture wars.

I want to focus on ending the profit motive in children's care. Last week, I watched Nick Martin's investigation into the death of Nonita Grabovskyte, a looked-after 17-year-old who was supposed to be in the care of Barnet Council in London. She was an intelligent, autistic young woman with no college place to go to after she left school. She had well-documented suicidal thoughts, specifically to end her life by throwing herself under a train. She was discharged from child and adolescent mental health services at age 17 with no adult support in place, and then she was put in an unregistered private home close to a railway line, with no-one qualified to deal with her mental distress. So, what progress is the Welsh Government making on eliminating, today, the private sector from the care of the most vulnerable young people in Wales, so that we don't have another Nonita disaster here?

Thanks, Jenny. That case, I know, is utterly devastating. I don't think any young person should ever be placed somewhere where they can't be kept safe or that the facility can't meet their needs, and that, I think, shows exactly why this work is so important and why we're very proud of the fact that we will be phasing out profit in residential and foster care. So, after Royal Assent in March, we're moving very quickly so that, from April 2026, no new for-profit children's homes will be able to exist, and we won't see expansion of the current ones. But the important thing to recognise is that we're not just talking about this, we're actually providing £75 million in terms of grant funding to make sure that local authorities can step into that space, so that we don’t have a gap in provision. Because we have a responsibility in particular for looked-after children, and I think it's essential that we follow through on what I think is one of the proudest achievements of this Welsh Government.

Good afternoon, First Minister. I'd just like to follow on from Sioned's points in relation to asylum seeking and refugee children. I'm also shocked by the Home Secretary's plans that, as we understand, would see children and families—children who are already frightened and vulnerable and potentially very settled in their communities—being ripped out, potentially a forced removal back to a country that many of them don't know.

No-one wants to get into a small boat and cross a huge expanse of water, but that's what they're faced with when there are no safe and legal routes. Lord Dubs, who, as a child, came on the Kindertransport, said yesterday that this approach uses children as a weapon and is a shabby thing. Amnesty International warns that it represents a dangerous drift towards treating fundamental human rights as optional.

I have worked with children and families, many of those children have been terrified by the thought of dawn raids to remove them to deportation centres and then back home. We are faced with that again on a much larger scale, as we're seeing right now in the United States. So, I'd like to ask you, First Minister: what is your view on the plans put forward by the Home Secretary yesterday, particularly when it comes to our children and young people? Diolch yn fawr iawn.

Well, I think we've got to note the significant contribution that migrants make to our country. The fact is that, in all kinds of aspects, where we rely on people, we are dependent on people who have come here from other countries, not least the health service, the care service; we're utterly dependent on the skills of these people and their contributions.

I listened carefully to Lord Dubs on the radio this morning. He is really a symbolic figure of a group of children who came to this country, and our country was there to open our arms to them. And you think about the contribution of somebody like Lord Dubs, not just to his community but to our nation, and I think it is important that we are generous when it comes to our welcome.

Clearly, we all want to see illegal immigration being addressed, but I think we've got to be extremely sensitive and extremely careful when it comes to creating an otherness of people who have made their homes amongst us.

I completely understand why people in north Wales are frustrated. Betsi Cadwaladr is still in special measures for a reason, and that is because waiting times are too long. But there is progress. Two-year waits are down 48 per cent compared to last year, and three-year waits are down 80 per cent. And this year, we've invested £21 million in planned care and £2.7 million in neurodevelopment services to end three-year waits by March 2026. Ambulance handovers are down by 10 per cent when waiting more than an hour. And my message to the health board is clear: we need urgent, sustained improvement, no excuses. People in north Wales deserve better, and I know that there'll be a statement soon by the health Secretary on the issue of Betsi.

Across Wales, patients and staff say the NHS is struggling to cope. The problems are most severe in north Wales where, as you say, Betsi Cadwaladr University Health Board remains under special measures. Following Welsh Government policy, they've been cutting community hospital beds since 2009. They now have the worst figures in Wales for corridor waits and delayed discharge of patients. I warned this would happen when I led the Community Hospitals Acting Nationally Together Cymru campaign in the noughties.

A group of retired medics and nurses have now formed an action group to try and reverse the current unnecessary situation in north Wales with their Beds campaign, to bring back community beds, end corridor tragedies, decrease mortality and locate senior medics at the front door. Why has the Welsh Government so far dismissed their calls for a meeting with the health Secretary, or is Betsi Cadwaladr University Health Board simply complying with your policies?

Well, look, as I say, the health Secretary is going to announce further measures to support Betsi, to drive the kind of improvements that you're interested in seeing, in particular when it comes to patient care. There has been improvement since the escalation to special measures in 2023, but it's clear that persistent challenges remain. The health Secretary is going to talk about the need to reduce ambulance handover delays and the situation in relation to flow, touch on planned treatment, improving waiting times for cancer and strengthening governance. People generally, though, would rather be looked after in their own homes. Let's just be clear, that is the shift that we would like to see. So, supporting people in their own communities, in their own homes, is actually a very deliberate approach by this Government. 

The blue badge scheme is vital in helping people with serious mobility challenges to live independently, but we recognise that there's been inconsistency when it comes to reapplying for blue badges, which is why we've set up an expert group with local authorities to try and improve the situation. New training sessions are already under way to streamline applications, especially for those people with lifelong conditions.

That's great. Thank you for your answer, First Minister. I've been working closely with Julie from STAND North Wales, and also Mark Isherwood, as chair of the cross-party group on disabilities, following her petition to make blue badges lifelong for those with lifelong conditions. I've supported many residents through the application process. It can be really challenging and stressful, especially for those that are already vulnerable. Do you agree that a sensible way forward would be to add a not-for-reassessment marker on the local authority database for applicants with lifelong conditions, so that, for future renewals, all they would have to do is to send an updated photograph and proof of address going forward? 

Thanks very much, Carolyn. Thanks to Julie, and thanks to you, Mark, as well, for your work on this issue. I can tell you that it is making a difference, and we are changing our approach. For people with lifelong conditions that significantly impact their physical or cognitive mobility, I think it makes sense. I think it's uncompassionate not to have a system that means that they don't have to go through this time and time again. That's why we've reinforced the not-for-reassessment route. We've already highlighted this and provided enhanced guidance and additional training to local authorities on using it. The whole point is to do exactly what you have suggested. Once a council is satisfied that someone will always meet the eligibility criteria, future reapplications should only require proof of address, ID and a photograph. They won't have to do that repeated supported medical evidence, and there won't be any bureaucracy. So, thank you for your efforts on this. It has made a difference.

We’re changing how Wales builds—using more timber, more recycled materials and less concrete and newly quarried stone. Our strategy, ‘Making Wood Work for Wales’, is driving that shift. Modern modular homes use prefabricated timber, cutting carbon and creating cleaner building sites. Our planning policy also prioritises recycled and secondary aggregates over new extraction. 

Thank you very much for that response, First Minister. Clearly, in terms of MTAN 1, which was published 21 years ago now, there is a strong focus on increasing the use of secondary or recycled materials rather than extracting primary aggregates. It says specifically that we must meaningfully plan in this way. Last week, I questioned the Deputy First Minister on this very point, and he said that much more needs to be done in this area. So, for communities like Glyncoch in my region, which are suffering because of core extraction, with the Craig-yr-Hesg quarry, for example, how will we provide a renewed focus in order to ensure that we are not as reliant on these core materials? Do you think that it is time for us to relook at MTAN 1 to ensure that those commitments are delivered in all areas?

Diolch. Obviously, it’s difficult for me to comment on the Craig-yr-Hesg case in particular, but what I can tell you is that dust, noise and health impacts have always got to be taken really seriously. Currently, as you will know, there is a 200m buffer zone in terms of national policy. On the minerals technical advice note 1 that you’re talking about, we are constantly keeping that under review. But I think the more important point is that we’ve got to make sure there’s consistent enforcement by councils, Natural Resources Wales and the Health and Safety Executive. They’ve got to act when conditions are breached and make sure that they use that opportunity. My understanding is that operators who are working at Craig-yr-Hesg are going to now be setting up a quarry community liaison group, and the aim of that group would be to make sure that there is an information exchange between operator and local community representatives.

And finally, question 8, Rhys ab Owen.

I understand why men are asking about this—prostate cancer is serious. But the UK National Screening Committee does not currently recommend screening, so NHS Wales does not offer a national or targeted programme. The reason for that is that the PSA test isn’t reliable enough and can lead to unnecessary and harmful procedures.

Thank you very much, First Minister. As you have suggested already, prostate cancer is the most common cancer among men, with one in eight being given a diagnosis. It is hitting all of our families, and this increases if you are black, over 50 or have a family history of this disease. However, prostate cancer is the only prominent cancer that is not screened for. That is true for the reasons that you have already given.

It is interesting to see recent research by Prostate Cancer UK that has looked into a more accurate diagnosis than ever before. Nobody wants unnecessary treatments, and a wrong diagnosis can lead to very poor outcomes. But given this recent research, and as we await the decision of the UK screening committee on this recent research, are you as a Government preparing at all for the possibility of introducing national screening here in Wales? Thank you. 

I understand there's a huge number of men who are affected by this, and I understand why they would want to see this screening, but we've got to follow the evidence. Right now, the PSA just isn't reliable enough for screening. It misses cancers. It can lead to invasive procedures that people don't need. The UK screening committee currently doesn't recommend routine or age-based PSA testing, but they're reviewing that evidence again this month. Obviously, we'll act on their advice.

In the meantime, I think it's really important that any man over 50, or younger if they are at higher risk, should speak to their GP. It is important that people take their health very seriously and follow up. Men, especially men over 50 and black men, should speak to their GP. Survival rates of prostate cancer are really high, so we wouldn't want to introduce a test that could do more harm than good.

Thank you very much to the First Minister. 

The next item will be the business statement and announcement. I call on the Trefnydd to make that statement. Jane Hutt to make the business statement. 

Thank you very much, Llywydd. There are two changes to this week's business. A statement on storm Claudia has been added to today's agenda. The Business Committee has agreed that the Standards of Conduct Committee debate should be taken as the last item of business before voting. Business for the next three weeks is shown on the business statement, which is available to Members electronically.

Trefnydd, I'm requesting a statement from the Welsh Government on support for the road haulage sector here in Wales. As we approach the busiest retail period of the year, I would like to pay tribute to our road hauliers, who work tirelessly in all conditions to ensure that goods are transported efficiently across the country. These individuals are often the unsung heroes of our economy, and I believe the sector is in clear need of greater support. In my previous role as Chair of the Economy, Trade and Rural Affairs Committee, the first subject inquiry I led focused on support for HGV drivers. I'm proud of the comprehensive report that the committee produced as a result of that work. The report set out 11 important recommendations. Trefnydd, I'd be grateful if we could have an update on the progress made in implementing those recommendations, together with details of any additional measures the Welsh Government is taking to support the road haulage sector here in Wales.

Diolch yn fawr, Paul Davies. Like you, I would also like to pay tribute to road hauliers in Wales. I thank the ETRA committee, when you were previously chairing it, for producing that report, which, of course, did have recommendations for the Welsh Government. I'll ask the Cabinet Secretary to respond accordingly.

I note that there was a written statement last Thursday on the announcement of the new development on the Wylfa site. It would have been good to have had an oral statement here in the Senedd, and I would request opportunities to ensure that there's an opportunity to discuss that development here in the Senedd, and not just as one event. I am making the call for regular statements in order to provide updates and seek the Senedd's views on the impact of this development on Anglesey and the Welsh economy more broadly. Because we are facing a number of tasks now: to ensure that opportunities are maximised in terms of local jobs and the economic impact, but also to ensure that we, as a local community and as a nation, are ready to take the necessary steps to mitigate the integral challenges that are sure to arise in terms of a development of this scale and nature. So, I appeal for an opportunity to have time, in Government time here in the Senedd, to discuss this development, and to ensure that that happens regularly as steps are taken over the ensuing period.

Diolch yn fawr, Rhun ap Iorwerth. I know the First Minister was calling on you as she was welcoming that great investment and that plan, which I do believe I heard you welcoming as well on Radio Cymru on the day. It is a hugely important development for north Wales. Indeed, it was great to see all those Coleg Menai students and apprentices, who could see the opportunities that lay ahead, and also just hearing from the community as well, that optimism that was coming through. But of course, this is something that is a demonstration of the influence the First Minister and the Welsh Government have to ensure that this development is taking place in Wylfa on Ynys Môn.

I'd like to ask for two statements today, please. First of all, I wondered if we could have an update on the baby bundle scheme from the Minister for Children and Social Care. It's some time since we last heard of what was happening, and I know that there's been progress. So, it'd be great to actually hear what was happening. And I'd like to use the opportunity to pay tribute to a small group in Cardiff, who worked on this from 2018. A member of the union, a member of Swansea University and one of my constituency workers came up with a plan for what was a baby box then, but, of course, it has developed into a baby bundle. I think it would be absolutely great when this goes out, so could we have a statement on that?

And the other thing: would it be possible to have a statement from the Minister for Further and Higher Education about the great research that has been carried out in Welsh universities? It was wonderful to see the announcement last week about the research being undertaken by Cardiff University into new treatments for serious mental illnesses like schizophrenia, bipolar and psychosis. They're going to do this by looking at the underlying biological, psychological and social reasons behind these illnesses. This could be groundbreaking and could result in the ability to create new treatments for these illnesses, for which there hasn't really been any new treatment developed for 50 years.

Diolch yn fawr, Julie Morgan, and thank you for championing what was then the baby box. I recall coming out and meeting with parents at a childcare setting many moons ago, it feels, doesn't it? But now we are in this position to offer a baby bundle to more families across Wales. It remains a priority for the Welsh Government and, of course, a programme for government commitment.

In fact, I was pleased that on 3 November, alongside Dawn Bowden, the Minister for Children and Social Care, I met with Allied Publicity Services, the main supplier for the baby bundles programme, and their Wales-based subcontractors. It was good that we had local social enterprises engaged in the community—in fact, in the Minister's constituency in Merthyr Tydfil, and also one of the enterprises from Ebbw Vale, so local supplies.

Of course, the baby bundles programme will support families in need, but also the Welsh economy, as I've described, by creating and sustaining local employment. Just to say that a baby bundle will include items such as a warm blanket and clothing, as well as helpful information on where to turn for further help and support. We're on track to deliver the first baby bundles to eligible families from February 2026. This is very timely, this question, because first registrations are being taken from 25 November.

Thank you for also drawing attention to the important world-class research being undertaken at Cardiff University. Thank you for drawing attention to this, so that the Minister for Further and Higher Education can respond. It is so important that we support universities undertaking research that actually transforms lives. Cardiff University's leadership in mental health research is a prime example of how Welsh institutions contribute to global innovation. What's good, of course, in terms of looking at those issues, like the root causes of conditions like schizophrenia and bipolar disorder, is that it's also about collaboration—Cardiff University working with the NHS, other universities, and people with lived experience—to ensure research translates into real-world benefits.

Trefnydd, you'll recall that I've previously raised the community campaign that I'm leading to bring a banking hub to Pembroke Dock in south Pembrokeshire. Unfortunately, Link have determined that there isn't a requirement for one. However, we are compiling a very strong case to submit to them when they can review this on 29 January. Indeed, today I’ve written to the older person’s commissioner asking for their support for this campaign. Over 600 local people have signed my petition in support of bringing a banking hub, and, indeed, I’m involving the local MP as well, as this is a cross-party call for a banking hub in south Pembrokeshire. I’ll be including local charities and organisations as well.

But how can I go about getting support from the Welsh Government on this campaign, perhaps from yourself as the Cabinet Secretary for Social Justice, to really show that there is a societal need for a banking hub that serves the constituents of south Pembrokeshire?

Thank you very much. Diolch yn fawr, Sam Kurtz. Yes, I think banking hubs, with the loss of our high-street banks across the nation, are important. We have been welcoming and supporting the development of banking hubs, and I’ve been visiting some across Wales. And it’s good that you are looking to that wider support—the older people’s commissioner and, indeed, cross-party support as well—and I’m sure that Joyce Watson, Eluned Morgan and others will want to join you.

I will certainly take this back to my officials and ask them whether they're aware of this, and how we can also ensure that our support is also acknowledged.

Trefnydd, I wonder if we might have two statements from the health Secretary. I’ve been contacted by concerned constituents in Caldicot regarding the introduction of charges by pharmacists for what are known as 'dosette boxes'. These are boxes that help people store and organise their medication, to ensure they take the right medication at the right time. And those affected are often vulnerable and in receipt of means-tested benefits or, indeed, personal independence payments. They’re now paying as much as £25 a month, and I wonder if we might have a statement from the Cabinet Secretary for health on how he will work with the health board and community pharmacists to address this issue.

Tomorrow, Trefnydd, is World Chronic Obstructive Pulmonary Disease Day. It’s a condition affecting around 185,000 people here in Wales, with many more undiagnosed. It often worsens when winter-time viruses and flu strike, and I wonder if we might have a statement from the health Secretary on how Welsh Government will further support people with this condition, especially given that, since 2022, only half of sufferers in Wales have chosen to receive their flu vaccine, despite it being offered free to them.

Thank you very much, John Griffiths, for your very important questions. 

Now, it’s interesting—the dosette boxes, as you say, are known as monitored dosage systems, and they are particularly important for people with protected characteristics. I can understand that that is really important, but the provision of dosette boxes isn’t part of the NHS contract for community pharmacies. But they can make reasonable adjustments to ensure people with protected characteristics can access all pharmacy services under the Equality Act 2010, and that includes ensuring people can take their prescribed medicines. And for community pharmacies, of course, it’s all-important for them, and their role, that they ensure that people can access their medications in this way.

And, of course, there are ways in which people and carers can be helped to take or administer medicine safely. Some people find that dosette boxes assist them in taking their medicine, but also there can be drawbacks. So, this is something that you’ve brought to our attention and is an important point that has been raised in your constituency. And I know that community pharmacies will be looking at this. Of course, the provision of dosette boxes is a private service. It remains a business decision made by the contractors as to whether to charge for this service or not.

You also draw attention, which is really important, to the fact that it's World Chronic Obstructive Pulmonary Disease Day tomorrow. It does go back to the statements that were made earlier this term about preparing for winter, particularly in terms of the impact on the NHS. I will take this opportunity, John Griffiths, to say that it's imperative, with the new strain and the earlier start of the flu season, that all those eligible get vaccinated, as, indeed, do those sufferers of COPD, as soon as possible. But I also wish to say that the vaccination teams and primary care contractors have worked really hard. Since 1 October, over 650,000 people have been vaccinated, which is a good record. I'm sure the Cabinet Secretary for Health and Social Care—. But, of course, there are more who could be eligible. We've sent advice and guidance to the NHS care homes on the importance of vaccination. But you have enabled us today, again, to share across the Senedd the importance of taking up the flu vaccination opportunities, to ensure that we mitigate the spread of flu and other respiratory viruses. There may be other interventions that are necessary to help, to ensure that we do take action to minimise the impact on vulnerable people in our health and care services.

I'd like to request a statement, please, from the Cabinet Secretary for Health and Social Care regarding the motion approved by Denbighshire County Council last week declaring a health emergency. I'm sure the Trefnydd is aware that the Welsh Conservatives tabled a motion in July calling for a health emergency, which Welsh Labour MSs voted against. Today the situation still remains dire. We've also had comments echoing this from the chair of Betsi Cadwaladr University Health Board, which has the worst accident and emergency waiting times in the country, and those closest to what's happening on the ground, particularly councillors, have sent a strong message to the Welsh Government.

The Conservatives introduced the motion last week in Denbighshire County Council, and the Welsh Government's own Labour colleagues voted for an amended motion, which still declared a health emergency. So, can we have a statement from the Cabinet Secretary for Health and Social Care on the declaration of a health emergency by Denbighshire County Council, and whether the Welsh Government will now follow suit?

Thank you for that question. It is obviously important that Betsi Cadwaladr University Health Board is responding to those publicly raised issues from a democratically elected local authority, and you do raise these issues, in terms of the pressures in Betsi Cadwaladr. It's good to see that a Betsi Cadwaladr health board spokesperson has said that improving urgent and emergency care is the health board's top operational priority, with plans to reduce delays in emergency departments, improve patient flow and develop services, and to develop services, for example—and I'm sure you would welcome this—at the Royal Alexandra Hospital in Rhyl.

Good afternoon, Trefnydd. I wanted to request a statement, if I may, please, on health and social care. In September, 50 per cent of the patients in Powys hospitals were awaiting discharge. They were either fit to go and there was no social care available to them, or they were awaiting assessments. In November we find the number is exactly the same: 51 per cent of patients in Powys hospitals are still waiting to go home. Christmas is only round the corner, and we know how important it is for people to be at home. So, I'm just wondering what action and what focus is the Welsh Government giving in order to ensure that social carers are enhanced and packages of care, as well as joint assessments, which means that we can accelerate the pathways and speed at which people leave hospital. Diolch yn fawr iawn.

Thank you very much, Jane Dodds, for that very important question, which is particularly pertinent at this time of the year as well. Management and support for all patients to leave hospital in a safe and timely manner is a key Government priority. We've made significant improvements over the last few years in reducing the number of discharge delays. It is about improving the effectiveness of moving people out of hospital safely—it might be back to their homes, or on to their next stage of care. Of course, funding is crucial. Your support for funding has been vital in terms of the continued commitment to social care. We've invested £30 million now through the pathways of care transformation grant from 2025-26, and this funding is helping councils to support hospital discharge. But also it's about prevention, isn't it, strengthening community capacity to prevent avoidable admission. In terms of the importance of getting the packages of care, the social care funding, as you say, we've published updated guidance for staff on hospital discharge practices, which are routinely updated to ensure that that guidance remains current and relevant. So, we do expect multi-agency integrated health boards, the voluntary sector all to collaborate to ensure timely, safe and person-centred discharge planning. But, again, I thank you for your engagement with us in terms of the £30 million for the pathways of care transformation grant—vital to help move this forward.

Trefnydd, I'd like to request a statement from the Minister for Mental Health and Well-being on the urgent matter relating to the absence of specialist avoidant restrictive food intake disorders and complex feeding services within Cwm Taf Morgannwg University Health Board. Concerned parents have written to the Minister directly and to the health board on this issue, but the responses that they've received have not addressed the concerns about the complete lack of specialist service, nor the failure to implement the national pathway. This lack of a substantive reply from the health board and the Minister leaves parents very concerned about what the future means for their children. So, given the urgency of this, Trefnydd, could I request a statement on this matter, or can you instruct the Minister for Mental Health and Well-being to meet with me and concerned parents?

Thank you very much, James Evans. It is important that you feed this back from parents who have raised this with you in terms of complex feeding services needed for their children, for your constituents, and to ensure that the health board, of course, is complying with and delivering on the pathway, to ensure that these services are fit for purpose. We will raise this, of course, with the Minister for Mental Health and Well-being, and I'm sure she will respond positively in terms of responding to you directly and engaging with you henceforth with constituents.

Trefnydd, on Friday of this week, a former member of this Senedd, Mr Nathan Gill, a former leader in Wales of Reform, will be sentenced in the Old Bailey for accepting Russian bribes. He has pleaded guilty to all eight charges. I'll be attending the sentencing hearing.

In the damning 2020 'Russia' report of the Intelligence and Security Committee of Parliament, it was clear that the last UK Government made no attempt to either see or seek evidence of interference in UK democratic processes. There are clearly many unanswered questions. Will the Welsh Government make a statement on any contacts they've had with the UK Government or security services regarding the activities and role that Mr Gill may have played whilst a Member of this Parliament and in receipt of public money?

Thank you very much, Mick Antoniw. There haven't been any discussions with the UK Government on this particular matter, but it is a very concerning case, so thank you for drawing this to the attention of the Senedd. The case is centred on criminal infringements relating to political conduct and breaches of electoral or financial regulations, and raises significant concerns about transparency and integrity in public life. The case is an example of the importance of robust safeguards and scrutiny to uphold the standards that underpin our democratic process in Wales and the rest of the UK.

The Electoral Commission's got a key role to play here, and we're committed, of course, to the commission's independence, working in partnership with it to protect the integrity of our elections and democratic institutions. The Welsh Government doesn't comment on the work of the UK security services, but works closely with the UK Government and a range of partners to help ensure the integrity of Wales's democratic institutions and processes, defend against interference, and ensure all threats to Wales are understood and communicated appropriately.

Leader of the house, could I seek two statements from the health Minister, please? One is in relation to the dental reforms that are coming in in April next year. We can debate and discuss the pros and cons of those reforms, but the practicalities that dentist practices are highlighting with me are around the software and the roll-out of updates to that software. The one software provider, Software of Excellence, provides the computer systems to about 60 per cent of NHS practices, and the lack of information flowing from the Welsh Government has now driven that provider to withdraw its services and not offer any upgrades at all to the 60 per cent of practices, because they do not believe that time allows for the software to be updated and staff trained accordingly. So, it is vital that we understand why the Welsh Government haven't been engaging on supporting NHS dental practices to upgrade their software, and what measures they are putting in place to make sure that that computer database and staff training are in place, so that, if you are to proceed with the contract changes of 1 April, the support staff are fully trained and that the software can account for those changes. Otherwise, we will see people not getting the dental appointments that they require.

And the second statement, please, is in relation to the consultants' letter that came forward yesterday on the University Hospital of Wales here in Cardiff. There aren't many people who would not have some interaction with that hospital in the whole of south-east Wales, given the specialities that exist on that site. And it is really important that we understand what the Welsh Government is doing, working with the health board, to address the numerous concerns that the consultants and the negotiating committee highlighted. I understand that they were about to put a vote of no confidence in the management of the hospital, but they withdrew from doing that. But it shows the severity of the lack of action on behalf of the management and the concern that senior medics have about patient safety and staff safety on that site.

Thank you, Andrew. 

So, what is the Welsh Government doing to work with the health board to address those concerns?

Thank you very much, Andrew R.T. Davies. You referred to the all-important implementation of dental reforms, which are crucial to patient services to our patients and, indeed, to the delivery of those reforms by our dental profession in Wales. You've drawn attention to one particular operational issue in relation to software provision. Of course, this is now on the record, and I'm sure that the Cabinet Secretary for Health and Social Care will be able to respond and, indeed, to follow this up in terms of an update on implementation.

On your second question, yes, there's no doubt that recent reviews of clinical services at Cardiff and Vale University Health Board have highlighted concerns regarding culture, individual behaviours, leadership, management structures and infrastructure. The reviews noted a perceived disconnect between executive leadership and front-line clinical teams, as well as limited clinical engagement and decision making. So, I just want to assure you that the health board's leadership has responded to correspondence, which you referred to, on the issues raised, with a commitment to improving communication and engagement. As far as Welsh Government actions are concerned, the chief medical officer and chief nursing officer have been leading a programme of work to strengthen clinical leadership in NHS Wales, and this includes developing an operating model for clinically led service improvement and transformation. Of course, that's working with all medical directors across Wales, but it will be crucially important for Cardiff and Vale University Health Board.

And finally, Laura Anne Jones. 

Diolch. Thank you. Trefnydd, I'm calling for an urgent statement from the Cabinet Secretary for transport regarding the disruption and impact on the transport infrastructure in Monmouthshire and on the rail lines between Newport and Hereford, as a result of storm Claudia this weekend. Transport for Wales admitted that it could not guarantee that passengers, including workers, of course, would reach their destinations, and admitted there weren't enough replacement buses. Staff couldn't get to work, deliveries were delayed and, of course, people were unable to get to medical appointments. Storm damage, of course, is not an excuse for poor planning in this regard and there should have been replacement services in place. But also, we saw roads disrupted and closed, namely in Grosmont in Monmouthshire, where we saw a major route in and out of England, affecting businesses and residents, closed. It's not just that this needs a quick repair, but there needs to be prevention in the future regarding this and how we mitigate these sorts of disasters. So, I'm just wondering if we could have a statement on that. Diolch. 

Well, of course, there will be imminently an oral statement by the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Secretary for climate change on the impacts. Of course, there can be questions and there will be a statement. We must thank all of the emergency services and all of those who are responsible for our infrastructure in terms of their response. I think, sadly, the flood impacts we've seen so far this winter are yet another timely reminder of why we must continue to invest in our flood infrastructure. Climate change is increasing the risk of flooding to our communities. That's absolutely clear to us in the Welsh Government, and that's why we are maintaining record levels of funding through our flood and coastal risk management programme. And, of course, this does involve and include all of those who have responsibilities for providing services, including, of course, transport, road and rail.

I thank the Trefnydd. 

Item 3 is a statement by the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Secretary for Climate Change and Rural Affairs on storm Claudia. I call on the Deputy First Minister to make the statement—Huw Irranca-Davies.

Thank you very much, Dirprwy Lywydd. Just over a month ago, I stood in the Chamber setting out what we and our partners have been doing to prepare for the winter ahead. Already our preparations have been called into action. We have seen recurrent inclement weather leading to localised flooding, hitting communities across Wales, culminating in the impacts of storm Claudia this weekend.

I would like to start, Dirprwy Lywydd, by offering my heartfelt sympathies to every single household and every single business affected by the flood events this month, in Carmarthenshire, Monmouthshire and more broadly across Wales. I’ve seen the impacts up close, and people whose homes and businesses have been affected have told me just how devastating flooding can be. I also want to offer my wholehearted thanks to Natural Resources Wales, local authorities, third sector organisations and communities themselves, for your diligent preparations, your response work, and your recovery support that is helping right now to mitigate the impacts in our most hard-hit areas. Your proactive measures and rapid responses have helped to prevent the impacts from becoming more widespread.

Storm Claudia, Dirprwy Lywydd, arrived in Wales on 14 November, bringing strong winds and heavy rainfall. The stormy conditions particularly affected the south-eastern parts of Wales. During the highest impact on 14 November, a major incident was declared in Monmouth, where the River Monnow and River Wye overtopped defences, leading to widespread flooding. Just to be clear, rainfall peaked at 120mm in the Monnow catchment. Dirprwy Lywydd, we had nearly 5 inches of rain in around five hours. Other areas such as Abergavenny, Skenfrith, Osbaston, and Overmonnow in Monmouthshire were significantly impacted, but also parts of Rhondda Cynon Taf, Torfaen, Caerphilly, Newport, and Powys as well. Natural Resources Wales issued four severe flood warnings during the storm, signalling a significant risk to life.

Whilst the full detail of the impacts from storm Claudia on communities across Wales is still emerging, my officials are in constant and close contact with local authorities. As of 11:30 this morning, current indications suggest that hundreds of homes and business have been flooded across the county of Monmouthshire. Impacts are also reported to have been felt in Monmouth itself, Skenfrith, Osbaston, Abergavenny, Little Mill, Monkswood, Penperlleni, Gilwern, Maesygwartha and Clydach, with the full scale yet to be determined. Beyond Monmouthshire, local authorities have reported 48 residential and three business properties as having been flooded, including two in Caerphilly, two in Cardiff, seven in Denbighshire, seven residential and one business in Newport, one in Powys, one in Rhondda Cynon Taf, 28 in Torfaen, and two business properties in the Vale of Glamorgan. That’s the extent of the widespread nature of this.

On Saturday 15 November, while the emergency response was still under way, I visited several communities affected by storm Claudia. Seeing the devastation first-hand is deeply sobering, and the impact on families and businesses will stay with me for many, many years to come. Accompanied by the leader of Monmouthshire County Council, I spoke to the head of the fire and rescue service in Monmouth on Saturday to express my gratitude for their hard work. Standing here in the Senedd a few days after the event, I would like to once again pay tribute to the emergency services, the local authority teams, the NRW staff and, indeed, volunteers who worked tirelessly to keep people safe and to limit the extent of the damage. They have been simply heroic. I also want to acknowledge the incredible resilience and solidarity shown by local communities: neighbours supporting neighbours, businesses offering shelter, volunteers stepping in to help with clean-up efforts. These acts of kindness and co-operation have been widely reported in Monmouth and beyond, and, I've got to say, they reflect the strength of our communities even in the hardest times.

We will continue, Dirprwy Lywydd, to receive further details on the impacts in the coming days and weeks, as local authorities move now into recovery and into investigation. My officials are working closely with the local authorities to establish what support they need, and we have already written to invite applications for funding to repair flood risk management infrastructure damaged by November events. I understand that local government finance officials are also working to establish what support can be provided through the emergency financial assistance scheme too.

Now, these past few weeks have been yet another reminder of the stark reality of our changing climate and the increasing frequency of extreme weather events. Whilst it is not possible to eliminate all flooding, we remain committed to reducing the impacts and strengthening resilience across Wales, and that is why we have invested a record £77 million this year into flood and coastal erosion risk management in Wales. This includes £36 million in capital funding, with £22 million allocated to NRW and £14 million to local authorities for flood alleviation schemes. We have made £185,000 available to Monmouthshire County Council in 2025-26 to progress their applications for flood risk management schemes in the region, and we're continuing to fund the grant award of £445,000 for the progression of the detailed design and full business case for a scheme at Woodside in Usk. My officials have met with Monmouthshire since storm Claudia to discuss emergency funding opportunities being made available. NRW have recently completed the strategic outline case for the Skenfrith scheme, and, following storm Claudia, officials are discussing with NRW the impacts of the storm and the implications for the scheme moving forward. The Welsh Government has also made £2.1 million available to Carmarthenshire County Council in 2025-26 to progress flood risk management schemes in the region, including almost £670,000 for the construction of the Arthur Street scheme. In addition, Dirprwy Lywydd, £2 million will support 23 natural flood management projects aimed at benefiting over 2,800 properties across Wales.

Now, these investments demonstrate our commitment to combining hard engineering with nature-based solutions to build our national resilience to flooding. I can also confirm that, in addition to the regular debriefs that always take place following a major event, I will also be undertaking my own debrief with stakeholders in the days ahead to ensure that lessons are learnt and captured and used to enhance once again our future resilience activities.

We must, therefore, all continue to be ready to deal with more frequent and severe flood events in the face of climate change. The events this month have shown us again that preparedness is critical. NRW has practical guidance on its website on what to do before, during and after a flood. I urge everyone to make use of this support, and sign up for the free local flood warnings that are available for your area. Together, we can build our collective resilience and stand ready in the face of our changing climate. Thank you.

Thank you, Deputy First Minister, for that statement. Storm Claudia brought havoc right across Wales. We know that, and our heart goes out to everyone who was affected, wherever they were or are in Wales. But I'll focus my attention today, if I may, on those devastating scenes in Monmouth. First of all, can I thank you, First Minister, for actually attending early on on Saturday? You witnessed yourself some of the fallout and the huge damage that came about through scenes I've never witnessed before in my 45 years living in that area, and, talking to people of older generations, since the 1950s we have not seen such devastation.

And, actually, the devastation was of a different sort of ferocity than we might have seen in usual times when flooding is threatened, because it came in a different way. Usually, we would see the Wye full to the brim and pushing back the Monnow and causing a gentle flooding, or potential for flooding. This time, we didn't see the Wye so high, but we saw Monnow come forward with a ferocity that was frightening. We saw social media videos of a 7 ft or 8 ft rapid—I can only call it a 'rapid'—running down Monnow Street in Monmouth, causing damage to 50 per cent of the town's shops, probably, there, and it is horrifying what was left behind. And the other side, well, that attracted media attention across the world. The tragedy, in many ways, the human tragedy, lay across the bridge in Cinderhill Street, Drybridge Street and the areas of Overmonnow, and people are reeling from the effects there.

Many haven't got insurance. Many wouldn't be able to get insurance. Many of the businesses, because of the proximity to a river, face a massive excess straight away if they have got insurance. Some may have nowhere near the insurance to cover it. We saw businesses who've lost £20,000 to £30,000 of stock and no insurance to cover it; other businesses who've lost £65,000-worth in bookings through to Christmas that they can no longer honour, with £100,000 of capital losses as a result. And that's just in Monmouth town.

We saw, in Abergavenny, flooding and businesses flooded. I went to the community of Skenfrith yesterday and saw the devastation there—a small village with 23 houses, and they'd never seen flooding like it. Five times they've been flooded in five years, and I thank you, in the statement, for talking about the scheme there, but they feel like a village forgotten. The vicar said to me, because the church had been fully underwater, 'We are a dead village. Nobody wants us. Nobody cares about us. We have no future. We can't sell our homes.' Nobody can come in there. They believe they have to help themselves, and they're looking for help for specific things, things like higher volume water pumps, so they can actually help themselves, yet they feel that they're forgotten about, and I make their voice heard here.

But I want to, as you did, thank the community for the efforts they put in, in coming together. Out of adversity came something very special. The way the community came together—the town council, the local residents, community groups—it was awesome, the opportunity. I saw couples yesterday crying in tears. They had nothing left, everything had gone, and the Methodist chapel were kitting them out with everything they needed. It was heartbreaking.

And the emergency services, since Friday afternoon, right the way through, all the blue-light services, many other groups, and Monmouthshire—. I pay massive tribute to MCC's emergency staff, who were just wonderful. Yesterday, there was lorry after lorry clearing hundreds of tons of waste out from the town. You'd probably go there today and you'd think nothing had happened, unless you went into the bowels of the shops that were affected.

I thank you for your statement, and whilst we recognise that there has been some money made available to the county to do certain bits of work, and there's the Woodside scheme coming on, and the Skenfrith project, the reality is that was in motion before we saw the scale of what we have now. And I would ask you to consider, perhaps directly, is there likely to be direct support to residents and to businesses—things that we've heard offered in other areas in similar situations? Those businesses are so anxious about what might happen next. Some of them, they're just lost now, and it'll probably be the last straw for some in the future, as they roll up towards Christmas. And if the council were to offer something as powerful as a non-domestic rates break for a short period, a holiday, will the Government stand behind them and underwrite that, or are they expected to manage that? Because, at the moment, your statement, as well meaning as it is, doesn't give the clarity that people want today. The council is on recovery today. It's started that mode and it needs positive messages to be fed through. So, Dirprwy Lywydd—

Peter, I've recognised your role as the constituency Member, and I'm giving you flexibility, but you need to come to a conclusion.

I accept that, Dirprwy Lywydd—thank you very much. So, that does bring me to the end, Deputy First Minister. I thank you again for coming out to see what was happening there, and recognising the wider scope of damage across the county. But if you could give a firmer commitment today of what might be available to councils, to businesses and to individuals, it would be very much appreciated. Diolch.

Peter, thank you very much. And in the most difficult of circumstances, it was good to be with you there on the streets in the lower part of Monmouth on that day, and also, I've got to say, to see the work that was going on with the volunteers down in the recreation centre and the wide support that was coming in across those communities.

And just to say, for those who may not be aware, you're right in what you're saying; people were telling us that they'd never seen the like of it, with the Monnow bursting its banks in anger and overtopping, while at the same time the Wye itself was swollen too. But the support that was coming in there included, for example, fire and rescue and blue-light services from right across Wales. There were people there who were turning up who were coming from Powys, from Newport, from south-west Wales and others to help out, as they were doing in other areas of Wales that were affected as well. We had local authorities like Torfaen who were lending their emergency pumps across to Monmouthshire, whilst they themselves were being affected as well. But it's that mutual support between local authorities that showed just how strong our statutory sector partners are in working together on this.

The Skenfrith scheme, I can say, as I mentioned in my opening remarks, Peter, is under consideration with NRW and with residents and with the local authority working through what would be best. Could I suggest as well, on the issue of more localised things for properties—and I've been with the Skenfrith residents before and, my goodness, they're getting regularly hit, and they're incredibly resilient and incredibly supportive of each other—on things like additional pumps or whatever, having that discussion with the local authority, the risk and resilience authority within the area, about whether the funding is appropriate to do those sorts of things as well?

And you asked me, quite rightly, what support will be available for businesses and residents. We're already in detailed discussion with all the local authorities affected, including Monmouthshire, about the emergency financial assistance scheme, EFAS. I'm expecting advice to be with me perhaps by the time I even sit down from this, but certainly within the next few hours. But we have also asked them to explore other options, as we've done previously, to see whether there are other ways in which we can support the businesses, because the important thing here is to enable people to get back into their homes as quickly as possible, and dry them out and get them back into their homes, but, secondly, for businesses to be up and running.

And in that respect, can I just say as well, we'd really encourage businesses—? And you're right on the struggle for homeowners who are in flood areas, but also businesses, in getting insurance. Flood Re is there, it's a deal with the insurance industry to make sure that insurance is available, but it doesn't extend to businesses. For businesses, can I just send out the clear message for them to engage with the BIBA, the British Insurance Brokers' Association, a commercial scheme that offers flood assurance for commercial properties, especially those who are at high flood risk? But we're also exploring in Welsh Government other opportunities for SMEs to get alternative finance and investment to become more resilient to flooding. But we've already got some there.

Business Wales can provide information and business advice to businesses managing the disruption of storms or flooding and so on. The Development Bank of Wales has confirmed it can support smaller businesses affected by flooding through the Wales micro loan fund—so, it's loans, but they can fast-track loans from £1,000 up to £50,000—and the Development Bank of Wales also offers flexibility around loans as well. So, I would signpost that to businesses, but, meanwhile, we in Welsh Government, working with the local authority in Monmouthshire, but also in other parts of Wales, are actively considering what additional support we can offer, and I suspect some local authorities, as we've had before, will themselves want to step up to the mark as well.

Thank you, Deputy First Minister, for your statement today and for the briefing over the weekend. My heart goes out to all those communities affected by the storm over the weekend. I really appreciate having that ongoing engagement with you and your team. It's been helpful and important in engaging with constituents. Storm Claudia has caused severe flooding across Monmouthshire, especially around Monmouth and Abergavenny and Skenfrith, leaving communities shaken and worried about the next prolonged period of rain, and they're not alone; people across Wales have been affected by this and previous storms.

I want to begin by thanking the council staff, emergency teams, and particularly the volunteers who stepped in straight away to help those at risk and to get essential services back up and running. Can the Government set out what support has been provided for evacuations and sheltering, and what extra help is being given to Monmouthshire County Council as the recovery continues? And are there further pots of funding that can be accessed to augment the Welsh Government funding that is being made available?

Given the border location of Monmouth, an update on any cross-border co-ordination over the weekend would also be welcome. Homes have been hit hard. Owners, tenants and renters are all dealing with the damage, lost belongings and the stress of temporary accommodation. Many are also struggling with insurers. What financial support is being offered and what discussions is the Government having with insurers to make sure people aren't left to cope alone? Especially with the weather reported to be getting much colder over the next week or so, what support is being given to those returning to homes that are cold and wet? Communities cannot keep facing repeated flooding. What long-term investment is planned to protect homes and strengthen flood defences? You've talked about some of those already.

How is the Government ensuring that early-warning systems are reliable and reach everyone who needs them? I also want to stress the importance of supporting local businesses. Monmouthshire is still open for business, and shops, cafes and producers need customers, especially with their Christmas trade at stake. Will the Government work with the council to make sure that the message reaches everybody and that the impact of the storm does not deter people from coming?

Finally, as the Plaid Cymru spokesperson on transport, I want to mention the disruption caused to the major train route between Newport and Hereford. It's welcome news that the train services have been able to resume today after the completion of emergency repairs to the large void left beneath the section of track near Pandy. I want to commend everybody involved in getting this important train service up and running. Are you now looking, with the Cabinet Secretary for transport, to futureproof our rail network for storms of the magnitude and frequency of storm Claudia that we are experiencing as a result of the climate crisis? I know from visiting Wales Rail Operating Centre earlier this year that extreme weather is becoming an increasing problem and factor in causing train delays and cancellations. Diolch yn fawr.

Thank you very much, Peredur, and thanks for your time over the weekend there, as we talk through the implications of this critical event there. And you're right in saying that the volunteer support was quite incredible, what we saw being provided. not just in the recreation centre, but, as I was on the way there on Saturday morning, I called back because I had to cancel, in my own patch, events, and the instant response from people I was speaking to was, 'What can we do to fundraise?' And a fundraising forum was set up within an hour, and we were sending that message out as well. But it's the donations of clothes, of toys, people offering support in, 'Can I put somebody up in my home?' Because, bear in mind, we had people who were flooded in businesses and in their homes; we also had a caravan park where people were—. I know people will find this a bit odd, but people were holidaying. It's a beautiful place to holiday in the autumn. People were in caravans in the area that was flooded. But all of those people now, partly I have to say, by an incredible piece of work that we saw on the day by the local authority housing officers in actually rehoming both from the caravans, but people who'd lost their own home as well—. By that evening, it had gone down from 70 individuals to 20. By the following morning, everybody was in a home, they weren't in the leisure centre any more. But the leisure centre staff, as well, were incredible, the Red Cross who were there, the churches and chapels who were donating and organising it—a quite incredible response. So, you're absolutely right in paying tribute to the volunteers there and the support that's been, as we often see in these, from the area, but also across Wales as well.

The UK Government, just to inform you, reached out during the weekend as well, and we were very grateful for that, from both Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs Ministers and the Wales Office, but also from the Prime Minister's office, to say, 'Is there anything we can do?' We've assured them that through the good discussions that we're having with local authorities and with my good colleague here the Cabinet Secretary for Finance and Welsh Language, but also Jayne Bryant, the Cabinet Secretary for housing, we're already engaged in discussions around EFAS, the emergency financial support, but also what else we might do. As I responded to Peter earlier on, we're looking at all options for what we could do. I'm sure the local authority is also considering what it can do as well.

The major infrastructure point is a really critical one. I've stood here before and talked about the fact that we need to invest in climate-resilient infrastructure, whether that is energy, whether that is rail, whether that is road networks, whether it is our disused tips as well, in the way that we monitor them, because we were also keeping a very close eye on those over the weekend, not just on disused tips, but on what you would regard as potential non-tip-based slips and so on. We are a hilly and valley country, and when the deluges come down in this way, we do assess them as well.

But in terms of rail, just to say the Marches line between Hereford and Abergavenny has now reopened. There are currently, I'm told, no outstanding issues reported for rail, the strategic road network or ports, but there were major impacts, and they've recovered well, and tribute to them. The force of the water from the River Monnow breaking its banks had significant impacts on the rail network in the area, but the £4 million invested by Transport for Wales in this line in 2021 to reduce the extreme weather impacts, to plan ahead and prepare for this, did reduce the overall impact on these lines, and has enabled us now to get them up and running much quicker than we would have otherwise. There's the investment of keeping the investment going in critical infrastructure as well.

You mentioned support for businesses in the run-up to Christmas. I spoke to businesses there in lower Monnow who had been affected, but it's also wider, because people would be looking at that and thinking, 'Well, the whole of Monmouth is closed there.' It isn't closed. It's open for business, and getting businesses back up on their feet is very important. I should say, I'll be going back there to do some of my Christmas shopping. People often comment on my glorious rose-patterned ties here. They're actually wedding ties, but it's my leitmotif here. I wear these ties. They're from a shop in Monmouth. So, I'll be making sure I go back and support them. But in all the communities affected, we need to get back on those high streets and support them in the run-up to Christmas because this is where they'll be making their money. Get them back on their feet and then go and spend your money in local businesses.

I want to echo all the thanks that you've given to all those people. I heard somebody say that people from Cardiff had gone down to deliver, so the community spirit was much wider than the initial community.

We know that there's been £77 million spent this year, with £36 million being for capital infrastructure. But there are other things we have to do when we're thinking of going ahead. We have to take the water out of the system, because the system's being deluged with water that doesn't necessarily need to be there. Of course, we've got sustainable urban drainage systems or SuDS that help in this area. But also, a fact that I keep mentioning is 1 cu ft of soil will keep 7.48 gallons of water in situ. That, obviously, leads me to hard-surface water. There was a report by Sir Michael Pitt way back in 2007, where he said that urban flooding, 80 per cent of it, is caused by run-off from hard surfaces. Going ahead, and to save the misery that we have seen, where it can be avoided, we have to invest in that. The £2 million for nature flood management projects, which is going to protect—

You need to ask a question now, please, Joyce.

—2,800 properties, is essential. So, will you give a guarantee today that you will look at all those solutions, particularly going forward, about those nature-based solutions where people, in many ways, can help themselves?

Yes, indeed. Thank you so much. It's such an important issue, and we can do this in a number of ways, this use of the upstream processes. So, that includes the remarkable investment that we've made with partners in peatland restoration, because that will hold the water in the uplands, slow the progress down to prevent flooding further downstream, and I've seen that all across Wales. We achieved our targets a year ahead, now we need to reset the targets and ask what more we can do and work with some of the big landowners to actually do that.

But we also need to look at the right trees in the right place—planting trees—and that includes alongside riparian corridors alongside the rivers, again slowing it down, as well as being good for wildlife. It also includes things such as the major investment that we're making in re-wiggling rivers. I've stood alongside the banks of these in places and it sounds like an odd thing, but we've channelised too many rivers that flow the water straight down to the communities below them, and it hits them and devastates them, so we need to get some of these natural processes going again.

So, I mentioned that we've put £2 million, currently, into that—it's 23 projects across Wales—but the impact is much bigger, because that's just short of 3,000 homes that it's having a beneficial effect on. We need to do more of this as time goes by. And we also need to do exactly what you're saying, which is in our townscapes, which are often townscapes that were designed in the 1930s, 1940s and 1950s, where we need SuDS being developed, but we also need to deal with surface water, run-off and the impact that has in flowing through to our rivers as well. It's a joined-up approach that's needed on this; it's not all to do with hard engineering, and some of this needs to be upstream.

Before I begin, I'd like to thank the Deputy First Minister, not only for your statement today, but also for reaching out to Members across the region, and as well to your team for being so proactive. It really did mean a lot.

The scenes we saw in Monmouth and the surrounding communities over the weekend were utterly heartbreaking, with flooding causing major devastation to many of my constituents. I want to take a moment, as well, to pay tribute not only to the emergency services and key agencies for their swift action in evacuating people and ensuring their safety, but also to all of the residents who've rallied together in the wake of the flooding and those further afield. I know that a mosque in Cardiff sent a van down there with goods to help and support the community, and it just showed that it doesn't matter about race, religion or creed, everyone rallies together whenever there's a problem in Wales, which was wonderful to see. And it was heartwarming to see the amazing response from locals when I visited the Methodist church yesterday, which has been turned into a donation centre for those in need. I would encourage anyone who needs support to head to the church as there is plenty for them to have.

I appreciate I'm short on time, Deputy Presiding Officer, so I'll make it quick. Cabinet Secretary, I know that many colleagues have touched upon various issues, but I have a couple of questions. First of all, is there any provision by the Welsh Government to provide business rate relief support for those affected by the flooding?

I'd also like to focus a little bit on the insurance aspect and I promise I will make it quick. Residents living near the river have been unable to insure their properties, and now, after enduring the unthinkable, are facing huge repair bills. I know that my colleague Peter Fox and others have raised this matter, and I appreciate that insurance is a private matter for individuals. However, many residents have found themselves in a predicament because they've found their properties to be uninsurable due to previous floods that have taken place in Monmouth. So, Deputy First Minister, what immediate financial support is the Government going to be giving and putting in place to help my constituents get back on their feet, taking this into consideration? You mentioned the EFAS earlier, but when will guidance be provided to us, and has any consideration been given to a longer term plan to ensure that no-one else is in this position should anything like this happen again? Thank you very much.

Thank you very much, and you're right in saying that in the insurance space, the Flood Re approach is an arrangement that was reached between insurers and the UK Government at the time, some years ago, and it is based on the classic insurer's balance of probabilities of risk for properties, but also on an understanding that Government will step into the space with investment. So, I think it's important in this space that we emphasise that we're doing our bit here—£77 million record funding into flooding—and on that basis, the insurers then provide a scheme through Flood Re. But you are right, it should mean that no domestic premises is uninsurable, but it can mean that the excess is high and the premiums are high, but not uninsurable, but it does stretch people. But you rightly say—and thank you for saying that—that insurance is a private piece, a contract between the home owner and the insurer, as opposed to Government stepping in and providing insurance.

The business rate relief support, I'm sure that's something that, locally, is being considered. In previous instances, interestingly, there are local authorities that found ways, either through that or other ways, of stepping in at a local authority level. What we can do, both through the emergency financial assistance scheme, or EFAS, and looking at other ways, which we have done before, thanks to my good colleagues around the Cabinet table, is find that and other ways in which we can help businesses and home owners to get back much quicker—[Inaudible.]—crisis event like this. So, we're looking at it. I'm hopeful, as I mentioned, that the advice will be with me within the next few hours—[Interruption.] Yes, indeed. As soon as we do, we'll make sure that we let all Members know what we've done and what we've come to, so they can convey that to their constituents as well.

I would also say to residents affected, 'If you haven't already, do look at insurers that offer the build back better options within their insurance', because that, then, working with the insurers—very simple things on flood resilience. It's funding of up to £10,000 with certain insurers, where they will—. For example, when I walked into one home there, it was a hard-surface floor—tick—rather than carpets. Not everybody likes hard-surface floors, but it means they can clean it out, mop it up and get back in within 24 hours, instead of days of getting rid of soaking, stinking, smelly furnishings on the floor and so on. Raising electric points, et cetera, et cetera. There are funds available with many insurers now to do that through build back better options.

But, again, I'd just close in response by saying that you're absolutely right: the support from communities right across Wales to places that were affected does, yes, warm your heart in the most tragic of circumstances. It really warms your heart.

May I thank you for the statement? I would add my sympathy to everyone impacted recently. Unfortunately, it's far too frequent now that we have to have these statements, have these conversations, and I just wondered: I know you gave a statement only a few weeks ago about preparing for winter, but with the frequency and the extent of the storms, do we now need to re-look at the plans we have? Because, following storm Dennis, Natural Resources Wales said quite clearly that there was a shortage of circa 70 roles; we know that their budgets are still constrained. Local authorities are now looking to make savings; we know that they're struggling to recruit some of the jobs that are really crucial, in terms of ensuring that we're able to spend the money that you've made available to be able to respond to the flooding that we're seeing.

So, what steps are you going to be taking to ensure that we take stock of how significant these storms are now, re-look at the resources allocated, and ensure that we are in the best possible position to support communities so that they can build back, but also in terms of that psychological support, which we don't have in place currently? People have told me, ‘If I'm flooded again, I don't know if I can live.’ That's the point people are at. So, how do we ensure that the resources are there so that we can get going on a number of the proposals from the National Infrastructure Commission for Wales as well?

Thank you, Heledd. Can I just thank you for raising regularly in this Senedd Chamber the issue of the mental toll on individuals and communities affected by this, whether it's people in Skenfrith who were affected one more time, or people like those in Clydach Terrace, who, like me, whenever they see the storm alerts, instantly think, ‘Well, I can't sleep tonight, I'm going to stay up’? Indeed, there were communities that were evacuated where the floods didn't hit, but they were evacuated in case, and I think that is the right approach. And it does show, by the way, that our flood preparedness, our flood alerts and our flood warning systems are now starting to bite with people; people are starting to really grasp the urgency of taking action.

We will keep a very close eye on that mental health support, and I know you've advocated consistently as well for what more we can do, either with or alongside the National Flood Forum, which provides such a useful form of support in many parts of communities affected by flooding. I've said in a previous statement, only recently, that we're taking forward a piece of work now looking at how we can have a Wales-wide approach on that, in one shape or another.

The other aspect that you raised was the question of whether we need to refresh our approach and refresh our strategy, in terms of the national infrastructure commission report and so on. Well, what we can say is that the record funding that we're putting in is doing good things. There are people who were not flooded this time around because of the investment that we're making. It's of no comfort to those who were flooded, but we have to be very clear on this: that record funding is protecting homes. There are people who were not flooded in this recent event, and previous ones, because of the measures we've put in place, some of which will never be seen, because they're things like culvert inspection, video monitoring et cetera. You only know because you haven't been flooded that they're working. But that's very important. 

The question is can we do more. I think the hard reality is that, as we're faced with these much more frequent, much more devastating flood impacts, this Senedd is going to have to keep revisiting this, and say whether the record funding we've got now is sufficient, or whether we need to do more, and, frankly, where that funding should go. Should it be in soft engineering in the uplands, to stop the water progressing down so fast, or is it in hard engineering, or is it in individual home resilience, or is it a mixture of them?

But we will keep stuck to that plate. We are not going to walk away from this, and we're not going to walk away from what is happening here. These are individual weather events, but there is absolutely no doubt now that what is happening is that we're having greater precipitation, in greater deluges—5 inches, just short of it, in five hours. It's happening more often, and that is down to water being picked up over the Atlantic and dropping on the valleys of Wales, and right across Wales. That is climate change in action.

And finally, Laura Anne Jones. 

Diolch. Cabinet Secretary, it has been heartbreaking to see first-hand the devastation in Monmouth, Skenfrith and Abergavenny over the last few days. I thank you too for coming there—it's really appreciated. I also want to start by thanking the emergency services, council staff, volunteers, people who've given up their homes and accommodation to those affected. I spoke to many in the services and in the community—having been in Monmouth over the last few days—who worked through the night, and tirelessly since. It was incredible to witness—one family, of course, having a newborn baby and all that that entails. Without their care and commitment, the situation could have been far worse. I'm thinking particularly of those elderly and disabled residents who were stranded in the dark following the power cut, with no food, and the inability to ring for help—something that perhaps needs better planning in the future. 

This flood has had a significant impact on Monmouthshire. Yes, there was, on the River Monnow, 5 inches of rain in five hours—understandable. But what is clear is that flood defences, pumps and infrastructure in Monmouth, Abergavenny and Skenfrith, and the often forgotten-about Grosmont, need to be drastically improved, with significant investment made in them by this Government. And drains, of course, need to be regularly cleared and maintained. Skenfrith, as has already been mentioned, saw major flooding. How many times does that place need to be flooded before the serious action that they need is in place? 

We also saw a major route in and out of Grosmont, to England, closed. There need to be preventative measures there put in place, as well as repairs. Our small villages need our protection, Cabinet Secretary, as well as our towns. I was going to ask you when that finance will be urgently made available. I thank you for the statement that you will update us ASAP on that, but I urge you to also have a full comprehensive review into the places that I've mentioned in Monmouthshire, please, and what we need to do going forward. These communities need real and urgent action, not warm words. Diolch.

Thank you. Let me just say that, after every major event of this type, there is a formal debriefing amongst all the responders and agencies to learn lessons going ahead. Some of them will undoubtedly be looking at is there more that can be done in defence of individual communities. I know a lot of our focus today has been on Monmouth, but there was other flooding in other parts of Wales as well, and not just in Monmouthshire, but wider. So, that will be looked at, and it will always be based on the criteria of the best value-for-money case to defend the most people and the most businesses. People are very important, and lives are very important here as well. So, that is in place. 

The question that you asked me is whether we need to do more. As I've responded in previous questions, I think this is a question that this Senedd will wrestle with: whether it is willing to put the focus, as the years go by, on more and more funding. But we cannot, to be crystal clear—and I've said this repeatedly, and very honestly—defend every single inch of every single property and every piece of coastline in Wales. I think most Members would recognise that. We need to make sure we put the investment where there is the greatest benefit as well, and that is on lives and homes, as well as businesses. But we will keep that record investment going.

Thank you for touching there—and it's an appropriate way to finish, Dirprwy Lywydd—on the work of the emergency services and so on. Because even the day after, there were still young families being evacuated out of properties. There were people in care homes that were being cared for with the rising flood water and then being brought out on inflatables. The coastguard were there onsite, et cetera. This was an incredible response, an incredible effort. I just want to say that, because even when these things happen, Dirprwy Lywydd, the amount of preparation and the quality of the response shows the lessons that we've learned from previous events, and we will keep on doing better. But my tribute to all those who responded here and who are now doing the repair work under way. We need to get these communities up and going, businesses back in place, shoppers in there, and people back in their homes.

Thank you, Cabinet Secretary.

Item 4 today is a statement by the Cabinet Secretary for Economy, Energy and Planning on AI in Wales. I call on the Cabinet Secretary to make the statement—Rebecca Evans.

Diolch. Our digital strategy for Wales set out a strong vision of improving the lives of everyone in Wales through collaboration and innovation, leading to the delivery of better public services. The AI plan for Wales, which I'm launching today, now articulates our vision to harness the transformative power of AI to unlock inclusive economic growth, enhance public services in both English and Welsh, and equip people in Wales with the skills to thrive in our fast-changing world. We live in a time of rapid technological change. AI is no longer a distant concept; it's everyday, it's mainstream, and it's reshaping our world—how we live, how we work and how we learn. And its influence will only grow. AI presents us with extraordinary opportunities but also challenges that we must navigate with care and foresight.

The AI plan for Wales is our road map for this exciting journey. We have already proved that, as a nation, we are uniquely positioned to lead in AI innovation. The huge investment announced last week for the north Wales AI growth zone, alongside the UK's first modular reactors at Wylfa on Anglesey, will ensure that we can reap the economic benefits of AI. The north Wales growth zone will accelerate the build-out of our AI data centres, and our close-knit tech community will foster collaboration across sectors. It will lead support for AI investments to facilitate real benefits for our local communities, creating high-quality jobs and growing our economy.

Even as we publish our AI plan for Wales today, we are already on our AI journey. We have kicked off action at pace across public services. In June, I announced the establishment of the office for AI in the Welsh Government. It's already strengthening our capability, facilitating informed policy making and supporting meaningful collaboration with stakeholders across Wales. Through the office for AI, we're providing funding to a series of exciting initiatives that are supporting the responsible implementation of AI across Welsh public services. These projects aim to demonstrate the practical benefits of AI and establish a robust foundation for future AI activity.

Alongside the office for AI, I also established a strategic AI advisory group, bringing together experts from academia, industry and the public sector to provide independent advice on how AI can support public service transformation. This cross-sectoral forum reflects our deep-rooted social partnership approach, and it is serving as a key advocate for responsible innovation and the ethical application of emerging technologies. The work of the group is building on the workforce partnership council for Wales's guidance on the ethical and responsible use of AI across public sector workplaces, reinforcing our unique Welsh way of social partnership and ensuring a just transition for workers.

AI is already delivering impact in our public services. It's enabling faster NHS diagnoses and treatment decisions, it's facilitating personalised learning in schools, and it's helping us increase the daily use of Cymraeg, supporting our 'Cymraeg 2050' goals. Local authorities and health boards are using AI scribing technologies to reduce the administrative burden and to automate repetitive tasks, giving staff more time to spend with those who need it.

The AI plan for Wales brings together these cross-sector endeavours in a coherent and structured way. It articulates our collective ambition to use AI to serve the public good, drive forward our economy, grow AI skills, and it reflects the values of Welsh society. The plan contains quick wins that will be delivered before the end of this Senedd term. They include rolling out AI training to the whole of the Welsh public sector, supporting schools and learners to use AI, improving AI speech and language technologies in Welsh, and providing a shared public service platform to test, use and scale AI tools. 

The plan also sets out a range of ambitious actions for the medium to longer term. These include maximising the opportunities resulting from the AI growth zone in north Wales; creating centres of excellence with further education, higher education, industry and unions; using our strengths in AI to attract inward investment; and developing an AI college for public sector workers. Delivery of the AI plan for Wales is anchored in four strategic pillars: economic growth, educating Wales, equitable delivery, and excellence and trust. These pillars are underpinned by our foundational principles that all AI in Wales is ethical, empathetic, enterprising and effective.

The plan reflects our distinct Welsh approach, rooted in fairness, transparency and the well-being of future generations Act. It's a living framework that will evolve with the speed of change. We will remain committed to ensuring AI is used in ways that are transparent, inclusive and safe, maintaining public trust through strong partnerships, human oversight, fair work and a shared commitment to ethical innovation. Together, we can shape a future where AI works for everyone in Wales.

I welcome the Cabinet Secretary's statement and the publication of the Welsh Government's AI plan. There is much in the ambition that we can all support: using AI to drive economic growth, improve public services and widen opportunities for people here in Wales. The Cabinet Secretary is correct, AI is no longer abstract. It is already shaping how we live, work and learn. AI is also helping clinicians make faster decisions, easing administrative burdens in councils, and enhancing learning in our schools. The prize is not only economic, but the delivery of better public services. But if Wales is to benefit fully from this transformation, we need to move beyond principles and into delivery. Businesses, public bodies and communities are asking the same question: where is Wales in the race for AI?

We do not need to speculate about the value AI can create, we can already see it here in Wales. The Everbright Group, operating hotels in north Wales, has shown how AI can reduce costs, improve personalised service, and create hundreds of jobs. If that is achievable in hospitality, imagine what AI could mean for manufacturing, retail, tourism, logistics, agriculture and the foundational economy. Wales has natural advantages—our scale, research base and close-knit networks—but SMEs need clear support to adopt AI. So, Cabinet Secretary, what specific steps will the Welsh Government be taking to help SMEs gain the skills, confidence and infrastructure they need to follow the example of companies already innovating with AI?

This matters because, as evidence to the ETRA committee highlighted, particularly from Paul Teather of AMPLYFI, Wales has lacked a joined-up approach for too long. While the AI plan is welcome, businesses are still waiting for the delivery road maps beneath it, the timelines, milestones, and the concrete actions across each part of the AI supply chain. When, roughly, will we see those?

The urgency is underscored by UK-wide developments. The UK Government's announcement of an AI growth zone linked to the Wylfa development, expected to create around 3,500 jobs alongside major skills investment, shows the scale of the opportunity, and indeed it is welcome. Your statement refers to engagement with the UK Government on AI opportunities, possibly including further growth zones, but could you provide further detail on that, please? May I ask as well what specific commitments now exist between the Welsh and UK Governments regarding the north Wales growth zone, and how will you ensure Wales captures the full value of the jobs and investment available?

Investment alone is not enough. It must be backed with infrastructure. Microsoft's decision to build new data-centre capacity in Newport shows that Wales can attract world-leading companies. Yet, concerns remain about grid capacity, planning delays and the ability of energy infrastructure to support the rapid growth of this industry. Now, your plan acknowledges the risks, but does not explain specifically how they will be addressed. So, what concrete actions will the Government take to strengthen grid resilience, accelerate planning and ensure AI ambitions are not constrained by infrastructure that is already stretched? 

We also need to look at the wider economic picture. As Klaire Tanner, founder of CreuTech, warned, Wales cannot become an AI hub if economic performance lags in many regions. A strong AI ecosystem requires thriving communities across the whole of Wales, that is why we are committed to levelling up every part of the country, cutting income tax, abolishing stamp duty for primary homes, removing business rates for small firms, scrapping the tourism tax and revitalising seaside and market towns, because a dynamic economy is the platform on which digital innovation sits.

So, finally, how do the Welsh Government's ambitions for AI align with our wider industrial landscape, particularly energy generation and sustainable water use, because data centres are major energy consumers and many require significant volumes of water for cooling. So, how will these pressures be balanced with the environmental commitments and the needs of other industries? 

Llywydd, Wales has the talent. We have world-class researchers, ambitious entrepreneurs and public servants eager to use AI to deliver better services. Indeed, I am an advocate of AI myself in my own office. But Wales already shows what is possible. AI can speed up NHS diagnoses, it can support personalised learning and, importantly in our bilingual nation, it can strengthen the daily use of Cymraeg. The potential is huge, but potential alone is not enough. Because without a detailed delivery programme, one that sets out our investment needs, supports businesses of all sizes and tackles infrastructure barriers and ensures that every region of Wales can participate, we risk falling behind in one of the most important economic shifts of the century. Otherwise, it will remain a promising document that delivers little on the ground. Diolch, Llywydd.

I'm really grateful for those questions and, I think, for the broad welcome of the report today. Like me, I know that Sam Kurtz is very, very keen that there is urgent action now in terms of the support that we can provide. But, actually, we are not starting from zero. There is an awful lot already happening. So, as you will see in the report, it identifies that there is already significant growth in the AI sector here in Wales. We've got the data-centre boom going on at the moment. We've heard reference to Microsoft. Of course, Vantage Data Centers have announced an investment of £12 billion in the UK. The majority of that is expected to be spent right here in Wales. Of course, these really do show the confidence that the data-centre market has in Wales and what we are able to provide here.

I was absolutely delighted by the announcement of the AI growth zone for north Wales last week. I just want to reassure colleagues that we absolutely see the case for an AI zone in south Wales as well. That network between Newport over to Bridgend, and even further west, is absolutely critical. So, we are continuing those discussions, and I will say they are positive discussions with the UK Government on that particular point.

Wales does have connectivity and power, which, again, are really essential for this agenda. So, we offer direct access to the UK supergrid. We've got already renewable energy sources that are being used in this space, for example the Pen y Cymoedd wind farm. And, obviously, we have that infrastructure in terms of proximity to London and the M4, which is important for investors as well. So, I think that linking up the important work that we're doing on this agenda alongside the clean energy agenda is absolutely critical, because these data centres are very energy hungry.

Also, in Wales we do have that network and infrastructure in terms of universities and research and development. So, Cardiff University, Swansea University and the University of South Wales are all recognised for AI already. We have access to consented health and social care data, which makes Wales a really important place to do research, with the SAIL database and so on. Of course, cyber security and semiconductor research is taking place in Wales—again, really important sectors here, alongside the expertise we have in relation to climate and green energy.

I really understand that businesses are hungry to understand what AI can mean for them and how they can, or should, transition to being adopters of AI technologies, where they're not already. Across the UK, there is a drive to bring together research communities and industry to explore how businesses can adopt AI and to drive productivity, such as the partnership that is established between the Hartree National Centre for Digital Innovation and IBM. Business Wales does provide entrepreneurs and businesses with access to a really wide range of impartial information, advice and guidance to help them start and grow, including advice on digital exploitation. And, of course, I mentioned the Hartree centre. That does provide support for businesses here who want to focus on exploring a particular business problem, and with them they will explore whether AI needs to be part of that solution.

There are also some really good examples taking place across Wales of how industry is using AI tools in day-to-day delivery. However, we do know that this sector and AI can be difficult to navigate without expert advice. We have data from the Wales economic and fiscal report showing the extent to which businesses are already using AI, but we know there's absolutely more we can do, which is why we're looking within the next six months to provide some additional support for businesses in terms of using AI. We don't want to reinvent the wheel, so we've been working closely, for example, with the Information Commissioner's Office to explore what resources they are able to provide. I think it's really important that we take advantage of expertise wherever it exists.

In terms of the north Wales growth zone and how it will work, if you like, there's currently an exchange of letters taking place between the UK Government and Welsh Government setting out a bit more detail in terms of the parameters and so on. So, we'll be able to provide a bit more detail on that in due course. But that's a really, really exciting announcement for Wales. I agree that accelerating planning is going to be absolutely critical if businesses are going to be able to maximise the benefits of AI. So, that's one of the reasons the First Minister put economy, energy and planning together, because she recognised how important it is for those things to work together. We've already laid the regulations in respect of local authorities moving to full cost recovery for planning services. We've provided millions of pounds of additional funding into Natural Resources Wales for planning and we're also bolstering local planning services through the provision of bursaries, for example. So, there's an awful lot happening in the planning space to speed up decision making, which I think is all really positive as well.

I think that what's happening in the space in terms of AI and the Welsh language is really exciting. So, obviously, AI can be a huge part and technology can be a huge part as we move towards the greater use of Welsh. So, we are working in partnership with OpenAI to improve how AI technologies work in Welsh. And we've already been able to share resources and components that we as a Government have funded. We've also collaborated with the Barcelona Supercomputing Center. That's identified and developed some new multilingual AI resources, including Welsh, and some automatic translation engines. They're freely available online, thanks to a memorandum of understanding between ourselves and the Catalan Government. And also Microsoft has announced it is supporting Welsh and Catalan in Copilot. Again, that's really exciting and it's part of our partnership with Microsoft. Now we want to work to explore how we can improve Copilot in Welsh. And, of course, Microsoft Teams has also begun to transcribe Welsh and English simultaneously, essential for bilingual countries like ours. So, I think that in the very short future, we are going to see huge benefits of AI in terms of enabling us to be that truly bilingual country that we aim to be.

Thank you for today's statement, Cabinet Secretary. As I've mentioned previously, it's good to see these announcements from the Welsh Government, especially around the acknowledgement that strong oversight and governance is required. Perhaps I take a bit more of a cautious approach in comparison to my counterpart in the Conservative Party. I definitely see the opportunities and the positives. The more I read around the development of AI, the more agnostic I am becoming, and there are definitely some risks and barriers that we need to consider. I'd also point the Cabinet Secretary to the work that the Economy, Trade and Rural Affairs Committee has conducted. There are a number of things I think that the Government could take away from the report that we produced, particularly around those barriers to businesses.

What I want to particularly focus on for a moment are, actually, the risks to jobs that AI presents. The International Monetary Fund has warned that almost 60 per cent of jobs in advanced economies are exposed to AI, roughly half may benefit from integration, but for the other half, AI could execute tasks currently performed by humans, lowering those wages, reducing hiring and, in some cases, eliminating jobs altogether. These aren't abstract risks, they are real concerns that demand careful planning and safeguards. So, with that context, has the Welsh Government conducted a risk analysis of AI to the Welsh jobs market? 

There are also environmental questions. We've touched on data centres. According to the International Energy Agency, AI-optimised data centres are set to increase fourfold by 2030. Sam has referenced the energy demand. Global electricity consumption from data centres is projected to double, reaching nearly 3 per cent of total global electricity use. National Grid's 'Future Energy Scenarios' report warns that data centres could become one of the fastest growing sources of demand in the UK by the 2030s. Aurora Energy Research has concluded that without co-ordinated action, consumer energy prices could rise by 9 per cent by 2040. So, there are real serious and genuine concerns around energy demand and consumption of AI-specific data centres.

What I want to focus on is slightly different to what was outlined by Sam. The UK Government has said the discounts for data centres harnessing energy generation will mean no additional costs for other electricity bill payers, but also notes that these savings apply when centres are located in Scotland and the north of England. So, can the Cabinet Secretary clarify today whether these savings will also apply to the north Wales growth zone and confirm that Welsh households will not face higher energy bills as a result of this progressing?

And then, finally, Llywydd, there are growing concerns about the existence of an AI bubble. The Bank of England has warned the risk of that bubble bursting. So, if the Government is serious about building resilience, it must show how Wales will be protected from such shocks. While we welcome innovation, we must also demand some realism here. AI can bring benefits, but only if we invest in skills, confront some of those inequalities that are presented by AI, manage those environmental impacts and guard against those economic risks. So, I'd welcome the Cabinet Secretary's thoughts on that.

Again, I'm really grateful for those questions, and I hope that you heard in my statement, and have also seen in the plan, that we are absolutely focused on reaping the benefits of AI, but doing so in a way that is ethical and fair. I think governance and oversight is absolutely critical, as we've just heard. That's one of the reasons that we established the office for AI within the Welsh Government. That really is strengthening our policy and delivery capability, facilitating informed policy making, but crucially making sure that our decisions are taken within that context of fairness and equity. And we've also established the AI advisory group, which I referred to—again, experts from academia, industry and the public sector coming together. And, again, all of their discussions, without fail, have that point around the importance of governance, oversight, safety, transparency and so on at the heart of them.

We do have the digital service standard for Wales. I think that that and the Digital and Data Standards Board for Wales are really important in terms of defining what good looks like from the perspective of governance and oversight. And that's really about designing and delivering efficient, cost-effective, user-centred services, but, again, making sure that we do so in a way that is fair, transparent and equitable and so on.

We're really keen to continue to work with the UK Government on this as well. We know this is a shared challenge for us, not just in Wales, but across the UK and even further beyond as well, which is one of the reasons I was so pleased that I was able to attend the group, the Disruptive and Emerging Technologies Alliance. That brings together people from as far away as Brazil, North America, throughout Europe and beyond, all to consider the ways in which we can grapple with the challenges that AI is presenting us with at the moment. And, again, at the heart of those international discussions was the importance of safety, transparency and fairness. I'm really pleased that we are all approaching things with a similar lens.

In health and social care, we do have the AI health and social care advisory group. That exists to perform that vital role in advising on the safe and responsible use of AI within health and social care settings, and again, of course, our whole approach is about the social partnership approach and its ethics. The workforce partnership council has already developed some landmark guidance on the ethical and responsible use of AI in public sector workplaces. All of that is absolutely critical to what we want to achieve.

We do understand concerns, again, about the risk to jobs, which is why the workforce partnership council's role has been so important in terms of making sure that we involve the workforce as we move to the adoption of AI. As I tried to set out as well in my statement, this isn't about necessarily replacing jobs. Actually, it's about freeing people up to do their job in a different way. I do understand, though, that globally there are risks to certain categories of jobs.

Equally, though, there are opportunities here as well. I'm aware of some research commissioned by the Department for Science, Innovation and Technology that shows that, by 2035, around 10 million workers will be in roles where AI is part of their role, and a further 3.9 million roles will actually be directly in AI. Actually, this does have the opportunity to create a large number of roles as well, which is why the investment zones will be so important.

The points about energy, again, are really well made. At the current projection, we expect that within Wales our electricity consumption will triple by 2050. I do wonder, actually, if we need to reassess that when we think about data centres and the growing role of AI, and we could see figures moving in advance of that, which is why I'm so pleased that we are doing so much in the renewable and clean energy space—the Wylfa announcement is really, really positive news—but also looking towards floating offshore wind and so on. We have an awful lot of irons in the fire in terms of renewable energy, and it is a question of being able to keep pace. Of course, technology is always changing on the small advanced modular reactor side of things on nuclear as well. There are significant advances being made in that space as well. But is a concern that we have to make sure that our ambitions for AI and the use of AI and that kind of modern industrial economy that we want have to be married alongside the provision of clean and green energy as well.

I welcome the statement. AI is coming, whether people want it to or not, and it has already started. I welcome the AI plan for Wales, a bold and forward-looking plan that sets out how we will harness the transformative power of artificial intelligence to drive economic growth, enhance public services and equip people across Wales with the skills to thrive in an AI-shaped future.

As with the previous industrial revolution, we know it will be disruptive, change jobs, de-skill some jobs and create new jobs. It will also massively improve productivity. The promise of AI must be matched by a commitment to its responsible use. Equality, trust and safety are not optional; they are fundamental.

We also know that being first is much less important than being best. WordStar, the word processor, Lotus 123 and other spreadsheets, and Nokia for mobile phones were early sector leaders. They have been replaced by Word, Excel and iPhones.

I believe the key driver for AI in Wales is university research. How is the Welsh Government supporting university departments to innovate in AI and turn that innovation into economic growth for Wales?

That's a really, really important question. I absolutely agree that, actually, it is not about being first, it is about being best. In being best, I think it is important that we look to others across the globe who are grappling with the challenges of AI, but also seeing where the opportunities are. We absolutely do that through the international group that I mentioned, for example.

I’m really excited that next week is Wales Tech Week. This is a really important opportunity to put Wales on the map insofar as our approach to tech is concerned. It's an opportunity to bring together universities, but also businesses. I think that that collaboration is going to be absolutely key in terms of ensuring that we reap the rewards and the benefits of AI. We’ll be looking to the existing structures that already are there to enable and allow that collaboration.

We know that we have fantastic ideas here in Wales. We’ve certainly got the skills, and that's something, again, that we're looking to ensure that we continue to develop through our approach to AI within education—again, equipping the next generation to ensure that they can maximise their access to these new and exciting jobs as well.

But Wales Tech Week will put us on the map, and then, if we needed to re-emphasise the point, we've got the First Minister's investment summit, which, again, is very exciting, at the end of the month and the start of the next month. Those will be opportunities again to look at AI, because there's a specific focus there on digital and tech as well—so, bringing together some of the greatest minds in the world, some of the biggest investors, all to look at what we can offer here in Wales.

Finally, John Griffiths. 

Diolch, Llywydd. Cabinet Secretary, Newport City Council and its leader, Dimitri Batrouni, are champions for AI in Wales with regard to the ambitions for a south-east Wales AI growth zone, and regarding the delivery of access to public services. With the latter, the authority have taken forward the automation of temporary accommodation housing benefits payments, speeding up processing times for quicker and better outcomes for residents. And now the authority is exploring WhatsApp to engage with residents on a 24/7 basis. How will Welsh Government work with Newport City Council to ensure the local authority's commitment to AI plays a full part in realising Wales's AI potential for economic development and public service delivery? 

I'm grateful for those questions, and there's an awful lot happening in Newport in the space of AI, and digital and tech more widely. It's a really, really exciting place to be, I think, in this particular field. The Welsh Government's currently working in really close partnership with the Welsh Local Government Association and the local government chief digital officer to drive digital transformation and embed AI responsibly across local government. We've just heard some really good examples of how Newport is using AI and tech to improve the experience of citizens living locally.

Neath Talbot County Borough Council has also been providing us with some really good examples. They recently won an Association for Public Service Excellence award for the way they've transformed their adult social care service by using generative AI to streamline administrative tasks and to support decision making. I know that all local authorities are really keen to share with each other the great work that they're doing to improve public services using AI.

As part of the public sector AI fund, funding has been allocated to develop guidance for local authorities on the responsible and effective adoption of AI, to help them harness that transformative potential of AI locally as well. We do provide an annual grant of over £2 million to the WLGA to support delivery of both the improvement and the digital agendas in local government. The plan for the spending of that funding does include discovery work relating to AI data centres, as well as trialling AI further in social care.

So, there are some really exciting things happening in local government, and we've had some great examples there from Newport, which is a real hotbed of AI excitement at the moment.

I thank the Cabinet Secretary. 

The next item will be a statement by the Cabinet Secretary for Housing and Local Government on affordable housing. And I call on the Cabinet Secretary to make the statement—Jayne Bryant. 

Diolch, Llywydd. With just under six months left of this Senedd term, and a year into my role as Cabinet Secretary for Housing and Local Government, I'd like to reflect on the huge achievements and continuing progress to deliver more homes in Wales. But I want to start by saying 'thank you': thank you to all involved in delivering our ambition of creating more homes for the people of Wales—local authorities, housing associations, house builders of all sizes and community partners. Thank you for your dedication, your partnership and for your innovation.

Housing has steadfastly remained one of this Government’s top priorities, because a fairer, healthier, more prosperous Wales begins at home. Having a home is about far more than bricks and mortar. It’s about stability, security and dignity. It's about knowing that your children can grow up safe, warm and as part of a community that cares. That is why we're determined to deliver more homes for the people of Wales.

Last week, we published our latest affordable housing statistics. To improve the timeliness of data, management information has been included in the statistical release, to complement existing accredited official statistics. Publishing this information brings Wales in line with all other UK nations and allows us to be as transparent as possible in terms of providing a source for any delivery statements we make before the end of the Senedd term.

When we set our target of an additional 20,000 low-carbon homes for rent in the social sector during this Senedd term, we knew it was ambitious, but we also knew how much it mattered. That's why we backed our commitment with over £2 billion of investment, the largest ever investment in social housing in Wales. The data released last week shows that investment is delivering results. It tells a story of remarkable achievement. In 2024-25, 3,643 additional affordable homes were completed across Wales, a 12 per cent increase on the year before, and the highest total since records began in 2007. By May 2026, we are forecast to have delivered 18,652 low-carbon homes for rent within the social sector, and the pipeline of delivery that we have established is expected to deliver a further 1,652 units by the end of 2026, bringing that total up to 20,304. That represents the highest sustained delivery of social housing in Wales in nearly two decades, and the pipeline beyond 2026 remains strong. These aren't just statistics, they are lives changed: a nurse finally able to live near the hospital where she works; a mother able to tuck her children into a bed in a home she can afford; and an older couple able to stay in the community they've called home all their lives.

We've kept building through challenge, because we know how much a good home matters. A good home builds confidence, supports better health, and gives every child a foundation to thrive. And we achieved this whilst facing unprecedented global challenges that no Government could have predicted. We were emerging from a pandemic that had closed construction sites for months, inflation soared to levels we hadn't seen in a generation, energy and materials costs rocketed, and Brexit-related labour shortages and supply chains caused delays. These weren't minor inconveniences, they were fundamental disruptions that affected construction across the entire United Kingdom.

And our delivery extends beyond more homes. Our Homelessness and Social Housing Allocation (Wales) Bill will transform how we support people experiencing homelessness, treating every person with the dignity and compassion they deserve. Moving away from systems that ask people to prove they're worthy of help, instead we've embraced prevention, recognising that anyone can face housing difficulties, and, when they do, we'll be there when they need it most. Councils will step in sooner and do more to help. Public services in Wales will work together. There will also be extra protections for vulnerable groups like care leavers to ensure they avoid homelessness and find stable, long-term homes.

Since August 2023, we've helped more than 18,500 people move from temporary accommodation into permanent homes. That's thousands of new beginnings, thousands of chances to rebuild and thrive. And for those who do need temporary accommodation, we're ensuring it's as close to home as possible, with 73 per cent of families with children being placed in traditional homes in the social or private sector. When compared to 2024, we've reduced the use of hotels and B&Bs by 6 per cent and, crucially, we've seen a 9 per cent reduction in the number of children in temporary accommodation. Every child deserves stability, and we're working to deliver it, tackling the blight of child poverty.

Just this October, we boosted our transitional accommodation capital programme by £55 million, bringing this year's budget to £155 million, delivering good-quality, longer term housing at pace for people in housing need.

We're also continuing to make good progress in responding to the recommendations of the affordable housing taskforce. I have had some very productive progress with the local authorities on local leadership and project management of major developments, particularly when they are at risk of delays, and with health boards and other public bodies on the availability of land. Furthermore, I have made recent announcements in relation to land site purchases for housing at Cosmeston and Porthcawl.

In addition, our support for affordable private housing is an important part of our housing toolkit to provide vital homes in Wales. Despite the previous UK Government ending Help to Buy in England in March 2023, we have provided an extra £57 million to extend our Help to Buy—Wales scheme, which has helped almost 15,000 people to purchase a new home, over its lifespan. Since April 2022, 85 per cent of Help to Buy—Wales purchasers have been first-time buyers. And we shouldn't forget the thousands more homes that we've supported through schemes like Homebuy—Wales and the empty homes grant, which also deliver against Wales's housing need.

I also recognise the importance of building a strong SME house building sector, and we will continue to provide a range of financial support through the Development Bank of Wales. This is delivery. This is what happens when the Government and the sector work together with shared purpose and unshakeable determination. I will continue to work with my Cabinet colleagues and the sector to do everything we can to deliver more homes for Wales, not because we have a target or policy, but because there's a human story. These stories are why delivery matters. Not delivery for its own sake, but delivery that transforms lives, strengthens communities, and builds the Wales we all want to see. Diolch.

Thank you, Cabinet Secretary, for your statement today. However, I think it was entirely predictable that the Welsh Government would miss their affordable housing targets. Since taking on the task of shadowing your brief, I have met and spoken with a lot of industry organisations who are all saying the same thing: the Welsh Government has failed because it has failed to understand the barriers that exist in the house building sector.

Even though you've been in Government in one way or another for over 25 years, you have no overarching housing strategy, and you have no strategy for increasing the numbers within the house building profession. This all means that you have conflicting policy aims, which substantially increases the risk of development for operators and substantially increases the risk of a scenario whereby the skill set of the workforce is inadequate to meet the demands you are making.

Ultimately, the truth is that you have no defence against this complete lack of strategy and planning. You are fully aware of it. Audit Wales has criticised the Government for your absence of a formal, long-term strategy for affordable housing, and has highlighted a lack of coherent, collective approaches to tackling capacity constraints in local planning services. Therefore, with this in mind, Cabinet Secretary, will the Welsh Government finally consider producing a strategy for building affordable homes that recognises the limitations of building in Wales? I believe that the industry, and certainly other sectors of the Government, would appreciate such a plan, and I'm sure your efforts would not be in vain.

As mentioned, Cabinet Secretary, inflation across the supply chain outside of the control of the UK has severely increased the costs of meeting the 20,000 homes commitment. However, since you made the initial predictions in 2019, you have not made any additional reassessments as to what is achievable, and this has meant that you have had to increasingly rely on renovating existing buildings rather than building brand-new, low-carbon homes to help meet the target. It has also meant that you have not been agile enough in responding to the changing circumstances. Audit Wales, in their 2024 report, note that beyond the current five-year target, there is no robust commitment or funding plan in place.

CIH Cymru has warned that your final budget for 2025-26 falls well short of what's needed to hit the 20,000 target. Given that your comrades in Westminster are doing everything in their power to wreck our economy and, at present, 1,000 jobs—[Interruption.]—are being lost every day in the UK, with unemployment soaring to 5 per cent, there's no doubt that, by the time this Labour Government is through punishing the workforce, the people of this country, the need for affordable housing in Wales will be substantially greater. There's unlikely to be capacity in the block grant funding to support the scale of building of affordable housing needed going forward. How do you, therefore, envisage the Welsh Government financing affordable house building in the future?

As you can no doubt appreciate, I think this is a very relevant and timely question, Cabinet Secretary, because one of the worrying concerns is that you're bringing forward new legislation, in the Homelessness and Social Housing Allocation (Wales) Bill, that works on the premise of actually increasing affordable housing in Wales. So, if this legislation comes into force, it will increase the number of people that local authorities have to provide homes for. So, without a clear funding pathway and strategy, you will create another self-destructing policy that will, undoubtedly, cause more problems than it solves.

Finally, Cabinet Secretary, the Home Builders Federation has pointed to delays at all stages of the planning process in Wales, from pre-applications and actual planning applications, to even discharging conditions, and this has had a substantial knock-on effect in meeting the affordable housing targets. They believe, as do many of us, that the delays are largely because planning departments and statutory consultees, in particular problems with the SuDS approval bodies, are under-resourced, which, unsurprisingly, comes from a lack of funding. This is a critical aspect of increasing the speed at which affordable housing can be built. Furthermore, the affordable housing taskforce has identified a need to streamline the planning process by standardising agreements and improving consistency in section 106 agreements. Therefore, what assessment have you made, or are you going to make, in terms of the funding, training and resources needed for the planning process to be able to increase capacity and streamline section 106 agreements? Thank you.

Well, diolch, Joel. It is a shame you didn't recognise it in your speech, but this is a level of delivery that we should be really, really proud of. It does represent the highest sustained delivery of social housing in Wales for nearly two decades. That is significant. It's not just me standing here to say that. It's about the effort that has been put in across the sector. I'm very proud of that effort that has gone in to having this sustained, record-breaking level of delivery that we've seen, and I think that's something that you should really acknowledge. Let us be clear, the UK Tory Government made it even harder for us to deliver this, with all the things that they put in face of that, so we've actually delivered despite that. I think that's a real credit to the sector and this Government, who are keen to drive that delivery, and I think the target has really done its job by driving that delivery.

In terms of the affordable housing taskforce, we are making good progress in responding to the recommendations, particularly on things like identifying public land, resourcing the planning system, tracking schemes and skills support. And as an example of responding to the recommendations, £9 million is being invested in services provided by Planning and Environment Decisions Wales, Natural Resources Wales and the Welsh Government's planning directorate. New planning fee regulations are expected to come into force at the end of the year, and that will help us generate further revenue that will be reinvested into the planning services. Again, I've had some really productive progress through local authorities on local leadership and project management, as I said in my statement, and with the health boards, on the availability of land. I did touch on those two recent announcements, which are in your region, in Cosmeston and Porthcawl as well.

In terms of the properties that we have included, we've been clear from the outset about the important role that acquisitions play, and existing properties play, in delivering housing for those most in need. The independent affordable housing taskforce reaffirmed this position, and without investing in those properties to bring them back into use, they could have been sold and lost completely from the social housing stock. So, I think what we need to remember is that those houses play an important role, and they are homes for people, not just empty properties any more.

The increase of 12 per cent and some of the other statistics are quite positive, but we have to add the three words, 'on the surface'. Up to now, just over 13,000 of the 20,000 target have been provided, and that is the only figure that counts. That is the important figure. The other things are maybes. So, let's not turn this statement into a celebration.

We have a housing crisis in Wales and the crisis is deepening. When we look more deeply at the entire picture, it's clear that the reality of the people of Wales runs counter to the optimistic narrative that we're hearing from the Government today. One in every 14 households is waiting for a social home, and at the current rate it would take 35 years to meet that demand. There are thousands on waiting lists, thousands in temporary accommodation, 3,000 children arriving home from school tonight to completely inappropriate housing—with nowhere to cook, to wash their clothes or to do their homework. And so, it is quite strange that there is an effort to celebrate today, while that crisis is part of the reality of the everyday lives of so many people. And, in truth, you're celebrating underperformance in this statement. Minister, do you agree with me that showing underperformance is not the important thing to do in terms of using data? Open and transparent data should relate to how we improve performance, and it should help to develop policy and adapt delivery to make a difference to people's lives.

Wales faces a housing crisis that is causing real suffering for people in Wales, and it doesn't matter how much you play with the statistics and the definitions, that's the situation, and there is evidence for that in every part of the housing sector. If we want to tackle the housing crisis in practice, we need better data in order for Wales to be able to have better policy and deliver more effectively.

I think that there is an opportunity for doing this with the Homelessness and Social Housing Allocation (Wales) Bill—an opportunity to create a system for better data. So, I do hope that it will be possible to amend the legislation to that end. I am concerned that Part 2 of the draft homelessness Bill will make it more difficult for us to understand the genuine demand for social housing in Wales, because introducing criteria for eligible persons means that the numbers on the waiting lists will come down on paper, but it won't change the reality of people's lived experience. And, in truth, it will make things worse and will include the creation of further stigma around social housing. So, could I ask you, Minister, will you support my call to eliminate the eligible persons criteria from the homelessness Bill? I'm looking forward to having that discussion.

Do you agree that we should focus on improving the delivery here, rather than spending your time on interpreting in a fanciful way the data before us today? For example, how about persuading the UK Labour Government to bring the freeze on the local housing allowance to an end? And how about Welsh Government providing the strategic leadership needed to eliminate the key barriers to delivering more social housing? And how about ensuring that we have the data that we need to ensure that we are targeting our resources in the most effective means possible? I look forward to your response.

Diolch, Siân. I think today is about setting out the data and showing how far we've come and where we will get to by November 2026. I think what's really important is that it's not about me standing here to celebrate, it's actually about saying a huge 'thank you' to all the effort that has been put in through this time by not just me, but by all the partners who've worked incredibly hard, through RSLs, local authorities, to all the house builders as well. There's been a huge amount of effort.

We heard from so many people that people didn't think we'd get anywhere near this, and I think what we're seeing today and this week with these statistics that have been published is how far we've come. I think that that is because of that sustained level of delivery and sustained level of funding that has meant there's been confidence within the sector that has led to this. I think that is something we should be really proud of.

Do I want to see more homes? Absolutely. I know we need to do that. We need to see more homes, and that's why we have to keep going. This is just one of those milestones. I think it's really important that we all acknowledge it and make sure that the whole ecosystem involved in this is absolutely part of that.

In terms of data, we want to be as transparent as possible when we give our updates and in statements, but due to the nature of that data collection, there is a time lag between the end of the reporting period and the publication of the official statistics. To improve the timeliness of data, we've also published management information in this statistical release to complement existing accredited official statistics.

Estimates of homes delivered are available from management information collected throughout the year. That data supports monitoring of housing delivery linked to Government-funded programmes. Alongside that statistical release, we've published a chief statistician's blog, which provides users with additional information on the strengths and limitations of both the official statistics and the management information. The Office for Statistics Regulation has supported our approach to publishing more timely management information alongside the accredited official statistics. I think it is about being transparent with the information that we have.

In terms of the numbers on waiting lists, I absolutely recognise that every number that we see on that waiting list is a person behind that. I feel that very strongly myself. I think when we look at the statistics through the temporary accommodation, sometimes it seems like a very static number, but actually, hundreds of people are being moved through that temporary accommodation into permanent homes regularly, and that's due to the huge efforts by local authorities and RSLs.

We still need to do more there, and obviously, we don't want to see so many people in temporary accommodation. We absolutely want to drive that number down. I keep that determination to do that, because I do recognise very much the human cost of people being in temporary accommodation. I think I've set out some of the stats where we've seen that reduced.

In terms of when we're talking about social housing in Wales, I think it is really important to recognise that waiting lists are not a measure of housing need; they're a measure of who would like to and who have applied to live in social housing. Anyone can apply for social housing. They can apply in multiple areas, and therefore the numbers include people who live in secure housing but wish to move into social housing. So, I think it's really important to recognise that when we're talking about waiting lists as well.

Since the second world war, household size has continued to decrease, driven by smaller family sizes and family units, and an increase in the number of single-person households. I regularly raise the importance of housing; a good home builds confidence, supports better health, and gives every child the foundation to thrive and improve their educational attainment. I'm a strong supporter of the building of council houses at the rate they were built in the 1950s and 1960s. This needs a change of Treasury rules to allow councils to borrow and build houses. English councils can and have borrowed to buy shopping centres, but not to build houses. We need to build a mix of homes in terms of both tenure and size. Will the Welsh Government support an increase in the number of co-operative houses being built? Despite some Government support and the involvement of Cwmpas, Wales is still not building co-operative housing at anywhere near the scale that is happening in the rest of Europe and North America.

Diolch, Mike. You raise the issue of housing and co-operative and community-led housing on a regular basis. I know you are a champion of that. I'd just like to put on record that I'm a member of the Co-op Party and a big fan of community-led housing as well. This Government has been supporting community-led housing for over decade, and our programme for government includes a commitment to support co-operative housing, community-led initiatives and community land trusts.

We have increased our funding to £200,000 this financial year to continue to support community-led housing through Cwmpas, and we do recognise that community-led housing is and does remain part of the solution to housing in Wales. We are happy to support the further development of community-led and co-operative housing where there is an RSL partner through our social housing grant. I'm really keen, like you are, Mike, and others here, to see more community-led housing brought forward using this route. Community-led housing groups can also access our empty homes grant.

I'm pleased that we're working with Cwmpas and partners on a number of schemes to deliver housing, including the Rhisom co-operative and the Nefyn Town Trust, which have received funding through the land and buildings development fund. So, I know there are schemes that are going on. Like you, I would like to see more of them as well, so I very much recognise that that is still part of our solution to housing in Wales. 

Two decades ago, the Welsh Government dismissed warnings that there would be a housing crisis, warnings by the sector and myself in this Chamber, and it carried on with its cuts to social housing accordingly. Given that your figures still fall short of your inadequate target by 1,350 homes, and the concerns expressed by the Chartered Institute of Housing in Wales regarding this, your statement today that this is the highest delivery of social housing in Wales in nearly two decades is therefore an admission of long-term failure. You only set a target to deliver 20,000 new low-carbon homes for social rent this Senedd term, and you now say you're forecast to have delivered 18,652 low-carbon homes for rent within the social sector. Given that you have inflated this by adding homes that are not new builds, not low carbon and not for social rent, including homes for intermediate rent and shared ownership as identified by Audit Wales, why should you not be accused of deliberate deception in your statement today?

I think the question being asked by the Member is perhaps inappropriate in the sense of asking whether the Minister is making deliberate misstatements or deception. Cabinet Secretary, I'm going to leave you to decide whether you wish to answer that question.

I would just like to say that this was a stretching target that we set right at the start of the Senedd term. There were a number of things that were included in the target last time. In this target, we are not including our statistics on help to buy, for example, so it's not the only homes that we're investing in here in Wales. So, it's a stretching target. That has meant that the sector has really pushed on to do that. As I said, they're record levels of delivery and record levels of investment. In terms of including voids as something within the stats, which are a small number, that is a recommendation that we accepted from the affordable homes taskforce and the number of people who sit on that taskforce. They asked us to include that, which we did.

Before I ask the next person, I ask Members to be careful of their language. Claiming intentional deception is a serious allegation for all Members. Jenny Rathbone. 

Thank you. Thank you for your statistics, particularly the graph, which is very useful to see where local authorities are taking this housing crisis seriously and where others are not playing their part sufficiently. I acknowledge that there has been an improvement in the number of homes being built, and the fact that it's the highest increase for two decades is welcomed, but we still have a massive housing crisis. We've got over 800 prisoners being released from Welsh prisons with no fixed abode to go to, and I'm afraid that some of them are ending up back in prison because of that problem, because they're not meeting their bail conditions.

I know of the fantastic work done by the Wallich in my constituency to help people hold down a tenancy after some very difficult problems with addiction, et cetera. They're staying in those properties for far longer than they need to, after they are able to move on, simply because the properties aren't there for them to move on to. And that, obviously, has a knock-on impact on the people who need supported housing themselves. I note that Caerphilly, which has got—

You need to ask a question, please.

—a lot of private housing, with a lot of transport chaos to go with it, is one of the lowest providers of social housing. It's also very well connected to Cardiff. So, I wondered what contribution, in the future, we can see from Caerphilly, where you can pop on a train and get to Cardiff quite easily these days, because of our fantastic investment in Transport for Wales—

Thank you, Jenny.

How are we going to ensure that all local authorities are playing their part in tackling this housing crisis?

Absolutely, Jenny. This today is about showing the figures and seeing where we've come, and the sector as well. But I absolutely know that we need more homes; we're seeing this across the UK as well. One of the things that I've been doing is holding regional round-tables with local authority housing leads and housing officials, and also RSLs. We had one in Cardiff last week, actually, which included Caerphilly. That's where we get to talk about best practice and people can learn from each other and challenges that are faced. We are looking to work together. They've been really successful so far. I very much appreciate them and I know that local authorities and RSLs do as well.

In terms of Caerphilly, yes, I absolutely see that in the graph. Just for you to know, Caerphilly has the fourth highest social housing stock in Wales amongst local authorities. It has had 368 social housing grant-funded homes, and there's a number more in the pipeline, which is really good. There are another 186 in reserve and a potential 306 in the pipeline as well. So, there is a pipeline coming from Caerphilly, as there are with other local authorities. But we work with local authorities closely, and housing associations and RSLs, to really see where they can improve.

There's been a huge effort that has gone into this. It's not just about the target and a target, we've got to keep pushing on. That means sustained levels of investment, and that leads to sustained confidence and delivery. I think that's why it's not just about today, it's about pushing on. I'm really pleased that we do have a good pipeline. I'd be more worried if we didn't have a pipeline. I think the fact that we have a really good pipeline should stand us in good stead with what else we want to do.

I very much welcome your statement today, Cabinet Secretary. As you stated, the target of the additional 20,000 low-carbon homes for rent in the social sector was a very ambitious target, and I think reaching it is a significant achievement. In Wrexham, 33.6 units per 10,000 households—well above the Welsh average of 26.5—have been delivered, and I want to congratulate all partners, and that includes Wrexham County Borough Council, housing associations, builders and community partners, for making this possible. The statistics clearly demonstrate that this is and always has been a key priority for the Welsh Government, and it shows what can be achieved in the longer term if there's a political will. I know that you recognise that more work is needed, as we all do, to ensure that everyone in Wales has a safe and affordable place to call home. But how do you think we can sustain this momentum and ensure that affordable housing remains a priority in the years ahead? Diolch.

Diolch, Lesley. Thank you. I'd like to put on record my thanks to Wrexham council and all of the other partners who've worked so hard in this area as well. When I visited Wrexham in the summer, I was able to go and visit somebody who'd moved from temporary accommodation into a Leasing Scheme Wales property, which had changed his life, and to see how well Wrexham has done in terms of Leasing Scheme Wales, which has been really, really good. We've provided £30 million in capital funding over five years for Leasing Scheme Wales, which means that local authorities can lease private rented sector properties from landlords. As I say, Wrexham council has made a real impact locally by actively engaging with Leasing Scheme Wales since its launch and has helped more people to access that secure and affordable housing.

The target for this Government term, as I said, was a lot narrower than the definition of the target from the previous term of Government, which included all affordable homes and those supported through the successful Help to Buy—Wales scheme. I think one of the things that we need to do is to keep the momentum going. As I said, this record that we have to date, which is record levels of delivery, is because of that record level of investment, and, again, that confidence that we have within the sector by working together. This isn't just a Government direction, this is something where we all have to come together and have that as a priority, because we know that we need to make a difference to people who live in Wales and who are in housing need as well. So, we very much know that we have to keep going. This is just one of those milestones, but it's just a real push on to keep working with the sector, all partners, to make sure that we deliver for the people of Wales.

And finally, John Griffiths. 

Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd. Cabinet Secretary, this area of affordable housing is a priority for the Local Government and Housing Committee, as outlined in our report on social housing supply of a year ago. We would like to see a three-times-greater rate of build, from the 20,000 target up to 60,000. We'd be grateful for an outline of progress with the committee's recommendations that

'the Welsh Government should explore how it can capture more land value for the public benefit. As part of this, the Welsh Government should redouble efforts to seek devolution of powers to introduce a Vacant Land Tax', 

and that

'the Welsh Government work with local authorities on unlocking the potential of smaller sites within existing communities',

with more transparency around land ownership, together with progress on recommendations of the affordable housing taskforce. Diolch.

Diolch, John, and thank you for all your work, and the committee's work, in this area; it has been really valuable to me and the Welsh Government, and we are working on ways to deliver the recommendations that we have accepted on social housing supply. Again, just to say that we have the most ambitious housing target in our nation's history, and we have backed it with over £2 billion over this Senedd term, including £466 million in 2025-26 alone. We opened our transitional accommodation capital programme, TACP, funding four months earlier than previously to have that overall indicative allocation of £100 million, and we added an extra £55 million to this year's programmes.

So, you know, we are making progress on those recommendations. I know that ambitions for the delivery of large-scale strategic sites and supporting alignment of housing and regeneration efforts can be delivered by the place division, and the division will continue to work with partners within and outside of Welsh Government to those ends.

Thank you, Cabinet Secretary.

Item 6 this afternoon is a statement by the Cabinet Secretary for Economy, Energy and Planning: outcome of the internal business support review. I call on the Cabinet Secretary, Rebecca Evans.

Thank you very much for the opportunity today to present the findings of our internal business support review, a foundational assessment of the Welsh Government’s current business support provision. This review, supported by OB3 Research Ltd, draws on extensive internal and external analysis, desk research and stakeholder engagement, including key partners such as the Welsh Local Government Association and the Federation of Small Businesses.

The review was commissioned to ensure that our business support is fit for purpose, is aligned with our economic mission and is able to deliver against this Government’s priorities for a more prosperous, sustainable and inclusive Welsh economy. It focused on immediate opportunities for improvement with minimal disruption, while ensuring that our support meets the needs of businesses and communities across Wales. The review was not exhaustive but was a focused, evidence-based evaluation, drawing on reports from the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development, FSB and others.

The review highlights a number of significant strengths in our current provision. Notably, our adaptability, the strength of our partnerships and the positive impact that we have had on business growth and innovation. Business Wales has emerged as a trusted one-stop shop, especially for new and hard-to-reach entrepreneurs, with an impressive 84 per cent client satisfaction rate, particularly in relation to adviser expertise and impartiality. The Wales business fund has contributed to 58 per cent of supported employment growth, while the Business Wales accelerated growth programme has met nearly all of its job creation objectives. Critically, businesses supported by our programmes have more than double the four-year survival rate compared to those that have not received support. Grant programmes have delivered substantial gains in gross value added, improved financial sustainability, increased turnover and driven job creation.

To put this impact into perspective, for every £1 invested in Business Wales, up to £18 is generated in GVA. Export support programmes yield a remarkable £20 for every £1 spent, and the HELIX food and drink programme reports up to £15 per £1 invested. The accelerated growth programme is particularly efficient in job creation, and, overall, our grant programmes have delivered tangible and measurable outcomes for businesses and for the Welsh economy.

However, the review also identifies areas where we can improve. The business support ecosystem in Wales is complex, involving a multitude of partners at national, regional, local and private sector levels. UK Government policies and funding streams, often designed with England in mind, add further complexity and do not always address the specific needs of Wales. The result is a fragmented landscape, with businesses having to navigate a confusing array of separate initiatives. This increases duplication, makes it harder to align programmes and can prevent support from reaching those who need it most. Inconsistencies in data collection and performance management further limit our ability to demonstrate value for money and assess the true impact of our interventions. 

Welsh small and medium-sized enterprises, in particular, continue to face challenges in accessing finance, with application processes often described as complicated and time-consuming. We also know that boosting innovation and improving workforce skills are essential for closing the productivity gap in Wales.

The report sets out a comprehensive series of recommendations. Some of these I'll be able to address immediately, and for others I will prepare the ground in the remaining time that we have in this term of Government. In particular, I've asked officials to begin immediate work on arranging a number of seminars to bring providers together in order to consider how we can simplify our collective business offer. We'll make immediate progress on additional dedicated support for major investors and improvements to our data and performance frameworks.

In conclusion, the approach recommended in this review is closely aligned with our economic mission and the Well-being of Future Generations (Wales) Act 2015. By clarifying and simplifying business support, removing duplication and identifying gaps, we will deliver a refreshed, responsive and tailored approach to supporting Welsh businesses. I've accepted the recommendations of the report, and the Welsh Government will continue to build a more productive, resilient and sustainable economy for Wales, one that offers opportunity for all of our businesses, our communities and future generations.

I thank the Cabinet Secretary for her statement on the outcome of the internal business support review. But I must say, from the outset, businesses across Wales will be listening closely today, not just for warm words, but for reassurance that this Government grasps the scale of the economic challenge we face and the urgency in which we must act.

For years, Ministers have spoken of creating a high-productivity, high-skill economy, yet the reality remains stark. The most recent labour market overview paints a deeply concerning picture: a 1 per cent fall in the employment rate, five times the UK drop, unemployment up 1.4 per cent in a single quarter, and an economic inactivity rate that is still the highest in Great Britain. These are not isolated fluctuations, they are the continuation of a long-term pattern of decline under a Welsh Labour Government propped up by Plaid and the Lib Dems and turbocharged by a failing UK Labour Government.

They can be addressed, however, because some of these problems are at the hands of the Welsh Government and could be rectified if Welsh Government is prepared to champion the businesses rather than further burdening them. Now, I recognise that the Cabinet Secretary announced in June that she would review Wales's business support landscape, but today's update, drawing on the review supported by OB3 Research, and the strengths highlighted around Business Wales, the Wales business fund and the high survival rates among supported firms show that there should be no resting on laurels, because Wales is not short of entrepreneurs or ambition. What Wales lacks is a Government willing to match that ambition with timely, accessible and adequately resourced support.

The review also highlights the complexity and fragmentation of the current support landscape, something that’s been allowed to grow under this Government for 26 years. As the statement itself acknowledges, navigating multiple national, regional and local initiatives leaves businesses facing duplication, inconsistency and, too often, dead ends. But the real-world experience of SMEs is more telling. Many still report that they cannot get clear or timely guidance, nor speak to a consistent adviser. A named case officer model already used effectively elsewhere in the UK could make a significant difference. So, Cabinet Secretary, will you commit to introducing a case officer system with guaranteed response time targets for businesses seeking substantive support?

The need for specialist expertise is another area the review highlights, especially if we want SMEs to innovate, digitalise and scale. The proposed voucher-based model could be genuinely transformational, enabling firms to access private sector expertise without excessive bureaucracy. But, again, we need certainty. So, Cabinet Secretary, can you confirm whether this voucher scheme will be adopted and if so, on what timescale?

Turning to productivity, the Welsh Government's own SME productivity review confirms that Wales has the lowest productivity of any UK nation or region. SMEs, which employ more than 62 per cent of our workforce, simply cannot raise productivity without targeted, intensive and long-term support. The FSB describe this gap as the 'missing middle'—those scaling firms that receive too little attention. So, what new resources will be allocated to support this cohort, and how will the Government ensure these firms can finally improve productivity in line with the rest of the UK? And when I use the term ‘resources’, I don't mean finance only.

Finally—co-ordination. The Cabinet Secretary says she will arrange seminars and improve signposting, and while all this is welcome, what businesses really need is a system that works. That is why the recommendation for a new business growth board is important, bringing users and providers together, strengthening accountability and driving continuous improvement. So, will the Cabinet Secretary establish this independent board and give us a timeline on which it will be established?

Dirprwy Lywydd, the Welsh Conservatives believe in a Wales that is open for business, supported with practical pro-growth action. We should abolish business rates for small firms, cut income tax, reduce rates in our town centres, scrap the tourism tax and introduce investment funds to revive our seaside and market towns. These are policies designed to stimulate growth and restore confidence. Because what businesses need now, in an uncertain world, is certainty, ambition and a Government that truly believes in them. So, Cabinet Secretary, today must mark a turning point, because Wales can't afford further drift, more reviews or more delays. Our businesses deserve a support system that matches their ambition, and they deserve it as soon as possible. Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd.

I'm very grateful for the questions this afternoon. I wouldn't say that the review in itself bears out entirely the rather glum portrayal that we've had of Welsh Government support, because I think the figures do speak for themselves. I said in my statement that Business Wales generates an estimated up to £18 in GVA for every £1 that we invest in it, and I think that, by anyone's measure, is a successful programme, particularly so in respect of our export programmes, where we could be looking at up to £20 for every £1 spent, and, for the HELIX food and drink programme, £15 for every £1 spent.

So, these are really successful programmes, and Business Wales is already recognised as a trusted one-stop shop with a really, really strong brand. It's got high accessibility for new and hard-to-reach entrepreneurs, and client satisfaction is really high at 84 per cent, especially when people are asked about the expertise and the impartiality of advisers. I think that that shows a service that is responsive, but I think equally it's important that we make sure that things are fit for purpose and fit for the future, because, since Business Wales was established, there's been an awful lot of change in the landscape of economic development in Wales. We now have our corporate joint committees, we've got the city and growth deals, we have the free ports, the investment zones and so on, so it's really important that all of these things work cohesively together.

And separately, I've also published a written statement today that looks at total investment by the Development Bank of Wales, because that's a really important part of our infrastructure here in Wales as well. Total investment there has passed £1 billion, and it's created or safeguarded over 50,000 jobs since it was formed in 2017. So, again, I think a real Welsh success story in terms of the DBW.

So, I do think that there's plenty to be proud of, plenty to celebrate, but, equally, it's really important that we do make sure that everything is fit for purpose for the future as well, which was the purpose of this very honest review. I do think those points about potential duplication are really well made, and it's important that we address all of those.

I do think that the importance of relationship managers has really been borne out as well. We do have, for example, in the mid and south-west Wales regions, a team proactively managing relationships with around 120 priority businesses. They reactively deal with small and medium-sized enterprises of importance within each local authority area, and they go out and build relationships. They make sure that those businesses are aware of all of the opportunities. They work with them, for example, to identify premises if they're looking to new properties to move and to expand and to grow and so on.

Some examples of the high-profile relationships that are managed in the region that the opposition spokesperson represents include Valero, RWE power station, Invertek Drives. All of those as well are really integral, of course, to the wider approach in terms of the city deal and so on, and the Celtic Freeport, of course. So, I think all of these things working together are important, which is why it's so important that we did this review to understand where we can potentially work together more seamlessly for the benefit of business in future.

Again, as I say, I've accepted all of the recommendations. I think there's certainly work that we can do immediately within this Senedd term, but certainly, again, things to look to for the future. I know that, from a political perspective, all of us will be considering our offers to business, so I genuinely hope that this work is also useful to all parties as they start to think through their offer for business for the future as well.

I think there are some good results as well of the support we've been providing. I have to say again that we shouldn't be using those statistics that the Member used at the start of his contribution. The ONS has no longer designated those as official national statistics—they are statistics in development—so it's important that we look at a broader range of data. But the annual growth estimate of labour productivity, as measured by gross value added per hour worked in Wales between 2022 and 2023, which are the most recent figures I have, was higher for Wales than 11 of the 12 UK countries and English regions. I think that's really impressive. Wales's productivity has grown by 14.1 per cent since 2009, as compared to 10.5 per cent in the UK. So, actually, productivity is growing faster in Wales and has been growing faster in Wales for some considerable time as well.

So, I think that what we all want is a system that works for business. I think that we've had a health check, and there are certainly things that are working really, really well. But, equally, there's certainly more that we can do, and I think that the report helps us identify the improvements we can make for the future.

Can I say I welcome the review? I think it's been long overdue. The Cabinet Secretary used the word 'honest' in reference to that review, and I have to say that the review points out some positive stuff; it also points out where there's a need for improvement and some of the things that aren't quite working. So, it's quite refreshing, actually, to see in a Government document a willingness to engage, particularly in those things that the Government's not doing as good as it should be in. So, I wholeheartedly welcome the review. The review also highlights something that I think we've all recognised over the last couple of years, which is that business support landscape being quite complicated. So, it's good to see that we can all agree now on that particular issue.

On that point, I would turn to recommendation 1, because it does sound as though the Government is entertaining a degree of rationalisation here when it come to business support, the aim being to clarify and simplify the range of support, to use the words of the review. Is that a fair assumption on my part? Because the review also seemed to rule out the possibility of using an arm's-length body to lead on the direction and delivery of business support services in Wales, and there is a link here, potentially, with that rationalisation piece. There are many, including myself, who would argue that a national development agency should be explored, and I think there's some tension here in the report. The suggestion that improvements can be made without the overheads of a new organisation I think ignores that broad consensus that economic development in Wales has suffered since the dissolution of the old Welsh Development Agency. So, the case for a successor to the WDA, and one that learns from the mistakes of its predecessor and looks to tackle those particular challenges businesses in Wales face in the here and now, has been outlined by many, and the idea is broadly supported by businesses that I've spoken to, as well as other relevant stakeholders.

I agree with the point in the report that there are too many players in the Welsh business landscape. So, perhaps it may be time for Welsh Government to take stock of what it is actually getting out of the existing structures and explore whether, as part of that rationalisation piece, a genuine one-stop shop, like a new WDA, is needed. So, perhaps, actually, a natural evolution of this review would be a cost-benefit analysis of the current landscape and support on offer. Is that something the Cabinet Secretary is looking to do next?

I also want to touch briefly on the economic missions underpinning the Government's strategic approach. I criticised them at the time that they were announced in 2023 for being woolly and vague, little more than slogans dressed up as a strategy, and I still believe a new guiding philosophy is urgently required, one with a bit more substance, geared more towards the mechanisms of delivery and more focused on sustainable development of meaningfully Welsh and Welsh-owned businesses. Is the Government considering a change in those missions in response to this review?

Finally, the review cites the FSB's findings that Wales's business support ecosystem represents a strategic advantage, pointing to high-brand recognition of Welsh business support providers. I think this is only half of the story. Business Wales is indeed a key service familiar to SMEs, and, of those who have accessed it, yes, many have good things to say, yet institutions such as the Development Bank of Wales don't fare as well. According to FSB findings from this year, only 11 per cent of stakeholders saw support from the development bank. A critical issue that the development bank was designed to address was access to finance and business support for SMEs, and, while it has increased the supply of finance available to SMEs, there has not been an even or uniform increase in demand for it. The current level of resources made available via the Development Bank of Wales to promote succession, for example, processes that retain medium-sized businesses in Wales, has recently been increased to £40 million. I think that's very welcome, but this is still arguably not enough to meet the scale of the challenge. Crucially, there is still no fund managed by the bank specifically geared towards promoting employee ownership. So, what steps will the Government take to improve awareness and uptake of development bank services among SMEs, and how will the Government measure whether the development bank is genuinely addressing the finance gap, rather than simply increasing supply without stimulating demand?

So, to conclude, while the review identifies some strengths, it also exposes deep weaknesses that I think the Government has acknowledged—that is very welcome. How it decides to go about addressing those will probably now be left to the next Government at this stage in the Senedd, but I think that makes it all the more important that we set out clearly now what the priorities must be. So, rationalisation is essential, a new guiding philosophy is essential, and a serious conversation about a successor, not a carbon copy, to the WDA is essential. Would the Cabinet Secretary agree with me on that?

I'm grateful for those questions. I do think that question in relation to an arm's-length body is an interesting one, and it's certainly something for consideration. I do think that there is a temptation to look back at the WDA particularly fondly, but I also think we have to remember that the WDA's budget was many times the budget that we now have for business support. So, I do think that we would be comparing two very different situations.

Also, the fundamental question, really, in terms of whether or not an arm's-length body would perform better is really around, 'What is it that we're trying to fix?' So, that was what I tried to look at through this review—that was one of the purposes of the review, to understand what the problems are, are there things that we need to fix. The question as to whether an arm's-length body would be better placed to fix the issues that we've identified, I think that that's a fair question to be considered, certainly, but I don't think that the report itself lands squarely in that particular space.

We did hear about the possibility of using an ALB to lead and manage business support services during the work that was undertaken, but it did find, as we've heard, that business support services are actually really well regarded, that the Business Wales brand is really highly regarded at the moment as it is. So, in that sense, that's not what we would be looking to fix. I think there are genuine questions as well that would have to be grappled with around governance, for example, around democratic accountability. Also, we've talked about how complex the layers are currently with CJCs, city deals, investment zones and so on, and then we would be introducing another body into that mix as well. So, these are all just legitimate questions that I think need to be considered, alongside, of course, the points around the cost. Anything that we spend running the ALB would be money that is not going to the front-line delivery of services and support. So, all of those things are legitimate questions to be thought through, certainly.

In terms of Business Wales at the moment, it is a well-regarded service. I've been able to talk about some of the good figures that we have had on those returns on investment. We're committed to developing a really proactive entrepreneurship support service and support service for SMEs. In doing so, we are investing £22 million in Business Wales in this financial year, which is really, really significant. Also, it can support businesses of all sizes, from microbusinesses right up to large businesses, to become more resilient and supports businesses at every stage of their life, from somebody who has got a fantastic idea right the way through to businesses that are thinking about succession planning as well. So, all of that, I think, is really, really positive and well regarded as well.

In terms of the development bank, clearly, that provides important support to businesses right across Wales. I'm really, really pleased that they have their five offices. They've got one in Wrexham, Cardiff, Llanelli, Llandudno Junction and Newtown. I think that that regional presence really does help the bank to remain locally accessible whilst maintaining that kind of national oversight that they have too as it continues with its mission to drive economic development and business resilience across Wales. You'll see in the statement I have released today a bit more information about how the bank is supporting businesses on a regional basis as well so that individual Members of the Senedd can understand the impact locally. But I know the bank is more than happy to share specific examples on a constituency basis with people as well, as to the ways in which they've been able to help businesses.

The net promoter score is the development bank's standard measure of customer satisfaction. The results of the 2024-25 surveys for both their Wales investments and the FW Capital track customer feedback on all microloans, larger debt, equity, technology ventures and property deals in Wales, together with all the transactions completed by FW Capital. This combined score of 90 does place the bank's service levels in the top quartile, so it is a well-regarded source for businesses as well.

In terms of the economic missions, there are no immediate plans to change the economic missions. I think they have been serving us well, and I really do think it's important to recognise, also, how well they dovetail with the UK Government's investment strategy. I think that, together, both of those things provide us with a really good opportunity to grow the economy here in Wales. That laser-like focus on specific sectors that are primed and ready to grow, but also doing so through the lens that looks to keep the benefits here in Wales, to make sure that we've got the skilled workers for the future, and to make sure that we share prosperity in every single part of Wales as well.

Finally, Jenny Rathbone.

As you say, there is quite a complex business development ecosystem. One of them was present in the Senedd this afternoon, GW4, which is an alliance of four south-west and south Wales universities, and clearly they've got some fantastic ideas for business development. As you say, Business Wales is a trusted one-stop shop, so why not bring them all together under one organisation? I appreciate there will be different roles for the development bank or the business fund, but one of the concerns I've had recently from an incredibly entrepreneurial engineer was that he couldn't get past your civil servants to get to you or your equivalent, and this seems quite frustrating for people who've got fantastic ideas, but don't seem to be able to get them front and centre of the Welsh Government. And I just wondered what thoughts you might have on how we overcome that.

So, I think that one of the benefits that we have here in Wales is just how accessible we are and, certainly, I try to visit as many businesses as humanly possible, of all sizes and in all parts of Wales. But, ideally, if an entrepreneur or anybody with a small business wants to get support, they shouldn't feel that they have to come to me directly. They should be able to make sure that they can contact Business Wales and have a good exemplary service. So, I'd certainly be keen to explore, with Jenny Rathbone, a bit more about that individual's experience to see what we can do to make sure that they get the support they need to make their business and their ideas a success.

I thank the Cabinet Secretary.

Item 7 is a statement by the Minister for Further and Higher Education on learning and skills in prison, and I call on the Minister, Vikki Howells.

Today I am pleased to be able to provide an update and share the progress we've made in the delivery of learning and skills provision in prisons here in Wales. We know that people in the justice system are often some of the most disadvantaged in society. Many have had negative experiences in school and may also have learning difficulties or learning disabilities that have not been properly supported or diagnosed. We've ensured that we have put in place the right support for these individuals to enable a positive transition back into their communities.

Just over a year ago, we set out our vision to deliver a safe and inclusive learning environment in prisons. The intention is to build confidence, engage and inspire individuals, helping them to become job ready and gain and retain sustainable employment. This shared vision is set out in our 'Better Learning, Better Chances' policy, which was co-designed with His Majesty's Prison and Probation Service in Wales and other stakeholders, as well as prison learners and prison leavers. The policy defines our expectations for learning and skills provision in Welsh prisons and aligns these to wider Welsh Government priorities. It clarifies our respective roles—Welsh Government, HMPPS and delivery partners alike—fostering collaboration, co-production and accountability, all with a shared goal of providing better support for offenders.

A recent example of this partnership can be seen at HMP Swansea. Here, Working Wales careers advisors, Department for Work and Pensions prison work coaches and the employment hub staff collaborated to provide tailored support for an individual to gain qualifications in a field with strong local employment opportunities. Upon release, this individual is working and thriving, and their employer has provided great feedback on their commitment, enthusiasm and technical skills. Collaboration like this transforms lives.

As a former teacher myself, I know first-hand how life-changing learning can be. It can rebuild confidence, restore dignity, and transform lives—not only for individuals, but also for their families and communities. We ensure, where possible, that our employability programmes are accessible inside the secure estate. The young person's guarantee is a good example of this, along with the programmes that underpin it, such as ReAct+.

In 2024-25, 38 per cent of people in Welsh prisons participated in at least one accredited learning opportunity. These ranged from essential skills to vocational training such as bricklaying and barista courses, helping learners gain practical skills that directly enhance employability. The proportion of people in Wales employed six months after leaving prison has more than doubled between 2020-21 and 2023-24, from 14.8 per cent to 37.5 per cent. This puts Wales in the top range of the performance tables, compared to regions in England. This is a really positive shift in performance due to our joined-up and collaborative approach to delivery.

It is estimated that, within the secure estate, about 57 per cent of adult prisoners have literacy levels below those expected of an 11-year-old, and that up to half are considered neurodivergent. We are working hard with partners to ensure we cater for and provide an environment that is safe and inclusive for everyone. I have heard many inspiring stories of individuals re-engaging with learning after years of disengagement. One man who had struggled at school due to undiagnosed ADHD has since achieved qualifications in English and maths and is now in his second year of an Open University degree. For the first time, he is optimistic about his future. I'm also encouraged to see that GCSEs and A-levels were undertaken by nine learners in HMP Parc and HMP Usk, achieving a range of grades in English, maths, history, biology and citizen studies. Additionally, four prison learners and three members of staff undertook Welsh language skills and sat the mynediad entry-level exams in June, with six passes. Six of these learners are continuing with their learning and have gone on to the foundation course.

Given the complex needs of our prison population, a one-size-fits-all approach to learning simply would not work. Everyone's circumstances are unique and our approach must reflect that. Through collaboration, prisons have developed targeted interventions to address individual needs. One such initiative is the neurodiversity harbour in HMP Swansea, which supports prisoners with additional learning needs to develop literacy and numeracy skills. Its success is now being shared as best practice across the prison network. Teachers at HMP Parc have also improved their understanding of autistic learners through a hands-on training initiative that allows staff to experience and empathise with the world from an autistic person's perspective. Such initiatives ensure our educators are equipped to support every learner effectively.

Llywydd, the way we collaborate with partners across Wales ensures we are setting the right environment to encourage learning and self-development, ensuring that individuals feel supported to dream of new possibilities and career paths, and make a real difference to themselves and their families. Just last week, I attended the offender learning and employability stakeholder group, where I saw this collaborative spirit in action. The dedication of our partners, tutors and teachers is truly inspiring. They are helping individuals in custody to see themselves as learners again, preparing them for employment and lifelong learning.

Our focus remains on rehabilitation through learning and skills and employability support. We know that access to meaningful work and learning reduces reoffending and supports community reintegration. Our commitment to fostering a rehabilitative culture within the criminal justice system is central to this mission. The progress we have made reflects collective effort across Government, providers, employers and third sector organisations. Each partner plays a vital role in helping individuals rebuild their lives through learning and skills.

Llywydd, the stories I've shared today show what can be achieved when we work together and believe in the power of learning to transform lives. I remain steadfast in my commitment to providing quality learning and skills opportunities in prisons. By continuing to implement our 'Better Learning, Better Chances' policy, strengthening partnerships and investing in innovation, we can give every individual the chance to build a better future for themselves, their families and their communities.

Thank you, Minister, for this afternoon's statement. There's something rather ironic about discussing prisoner education this afternoon in light of everything that's been going on recently across the country. Under Labour, prisoners are not behind bars long enough to learn anything. No sooner are they locked up than they're accidentally released back onto the streets. They barely have time to unpack their belongings, let alone enrol in a class. Acting Presiding Officer, Labour's idea of a short course in prison really is short: in today and out tomorrow, sadly. Perhaps instead of educating prisoners, the Minister would instead like to teach her Labour counterparts in Westminster how to run the justice system properly.

In all seriousness, though, providing prisoners with an education can bring some really big benefits to society, and anything to tackle reoffending rates is to be welcomed. The Welsh Conservatives believe access to education is essential for offenders' rehabilitation. A strong education for prisoners gives them skills and training that they need to get sustained employment on release and turn their back on crime. The evidence is clear: not only does education reduce reoffending, but it also helps more people into employment and plays a positive role in improving mental health.

Minister, you have made reference to HMP Parc, HMP Swansea and HMP Usk, but we have more prisons in Wales than that. Whilst I appreciate the success stories that you've shared, can you please outline some of the work being carried out in some of the other prisons, such as HMP Cardiff and HMP Berwyn?

Minister, your statement comes amid a backdrop of mooted cuts to front-line spending on education courses in the UK by the Labour Government in Westminster. This comes despite Keir Starmer's promise to improve access to learning in prisons in the party's 2024 manifesto. Will these cuts, if they indeed do go ahead, have an impact on the Welsh Government's ambitions for prisoner learning, and have you raised these with your UK counterparts if that is the case?

In 2024-25, you say that 38 per cent of people in Welsh prisons participated in at least one accredited learning opportunity. Whilst that is welcome, I would argue that it is still a relatively low number, so what steps are you taking with partners to increase this figure going forward?

Minister, you also made reference to the young person's guarantee in your statement as a way of ensuring employment programmes are accessible. We know the guarantee includes apprenticeships as a key part of its offer, yet the number of apprenticeship starts are dwindling. So, how are you going to be ensuring that prisoners are able to maintain their course so they can continue on their rehabilitation journey?

Literacy: I know it's a topic I've spoken about a lot here in this Chamber, but it's been a major issue here in Wales, as I'm sure you're all aware here. It is damning that 57 per cent of adult prisoners have literacy levels below those expected of an 11-year-old child. You say that you're working hard to address this, but, Minister, can you elaborate on what steps the Government is going to take to actually fix that now?

And, Minister, a lot of what you've outlined this afternoon is hard to disagree with, if I'm honest with you, and I fully do believe and accept that education must form the cornerstone of rehabilitation. Education, without a doubt, provides prisoners with a chance to turn their lives around and ultimately out of prison, which is what I'm sure we all want to see here, so thank you very much.

I thank Natasha Asghar for those questions. If I can start by addressing your question on the prisoner learning budget, that is totally separate to the education budget. It's a complex area, but we do receive—. Last year, it was £11.066 million directly funded through the Ministry of Justice for learning and skills in the Welsh prison estate. 

You asked about continuing support on leaving prison as well. There are a range of Welsh Government schemes that provide support to Welsh prisoners when they're reintegrating into society. I've had a chance to speak to those who deliver those programmes on my visits to various prisons through Wales. The ReAct+ programme is one of those, and also the Communities for Work programme as well. They track and monitor progress, and I think that they play a key role in those stats that I provided for you there, which show how well we're doing compared with regions in England with our offenders, once being released, holding down employment six months after release.

You asked about some of the other prisons in Wales as well. If I start with Cardiff prison, they have a lot of prisoners who are there on short sentences. When I visited them along with the Minister for Culture, Skills and Social Partnership a few months ago, it was really impressive to see the speed at which they can roll out the employability and training support programmes there. There are some courses that they put on where you can actually gain the qualifications within 10 hours, which I think is very impressive indeed. They also focus on the Construction Skills Certification Scheme cards, which are really vital for a range of different professions that ex-offenders can go into, such as building and scaffolding. They're able to provide those within a short space of time as well.

Berwyn prison definitely has offered the greatest range of learning provision that I've seen on my visits to prisons in Wales. It was so impressive to see the range of different courses that are available there, everything from basic skills provision through to a range of vocational training opportunities. There was even a course in heritage masonry, which I thought was fantastic. It's great to see ex-offenders being able to focus on niche areas like that. You might be aware as well that they have a restaurant there that is a programme that was set up by the tv chef Fred Sirieix. They are doing a fabulous job in getting qualifications for those prisoners in things like barista training and other hospitality courses as well, where they are very successful in gaining employment on release.

Cefin Campbell.

Thank you very much, Deputy—. No, acting Llywydd. I'm sorry I referred to you incorrectly.

I welcome the statement, Minister, as it contains a number of positive outcomes since the launch of the 'Better Learning, Better Chances' document about 18 months ago. I was particularly pleased to see that 38 per cent of people in Welsh prisons participated in at least one accredited learning opportunity. The proportion of prison leavers employed six months after leaving prison has more than doubled over a three-year period, from 14.8 per cent to 37.5 per cent, which compares really well with regions in England.

As you acknowledged in your statement, education is one of the most powerful tools for rehabilitation. It reduces reoffending, builds confidence and opens pathways to employment. With reoffending costing society about £15 billion every year, and prison leavers who secure employment being up to nine percentage points less likely to reoffend, the stakes couldn't be higher.

With some of the highest rates of incarceration in Europe, persistently high levels of reoffending and chronic failings in a perennially overcrowded prison estate, Wales is consistently disadvantaged by the jagged edge of the non-devolved justice system. It's been over a decade since the Thomas commission categorically and unequivocally recommended the full devolution of justice and policing powers, in line with those already exercised by Scotland and Northern Ireland. The fact that your Westminster Labour colleagues continue to irrationally resist the compelling case for reform reflects their in-built tendency to dismiss devolution as an inconvenience, rather than a route to creating a fairer and more just society. Justice should align with Wales's distinct social, health and education policies, yet this remains impossible under the current settlement. So, Minister, what assessment has the Welsh Government made of how this lack of devolution limits its ability to integrate prison education with wider Welsh education, health and rehabilitation strategies?

The 'Better Learning, Better Chances' policy promised an inclusive, supportive learning environment in prisons, with flexible access, alignment to labour market needs and continuous improvement. However, challenges remain: overcrowding, staffing shortages and limited digital access. They all undermine delivery. There is also a lack of published data on participation and achievement. So, Minister, how is success being monitored? Are participation and achievement data now available for every prison in Wales? Has there been any evidence yet that the policy is reducing reoffending rates among Welsh prison leavers?

You've referred in your statement to one or two examples, but what practical measures ensure that qualifications gained in prison lead to real employment opportunities? Do courses reflect current and future labour market needs in Wales? How are prisoners encouraged to progress with their learning? We've heard a number of examples from you about low-level attainment, which is great, but obviously we want to encourage them to progress further. And then, finally, has the funding for prison education increased in real terms since the policy was introduced?

And just to conclude, a few words on the use of the Welsh language in prisons. There are around 200 prisoners who are Welsh speakers in prison in Wales according to the statistics of the Welsh Language Commissioner, but what she saw was that there were only language learning courses available in our prisons, not courses through the medium of Welsh in different areas. So, if you could look at that.

Finally, Minister, as you know, there is no women's prison in Wales, yet the number of Welsh women in custody across the UK has increased for the fourth consecutive year. How is the Welsh Government ensuring parity of education and rehabilitation provision for Welsh women held in English prisons? And finally, what progress has been made in establishing mentoring programmes for female offenders with organisations like Women's Aid? Diolch.

I'd like to thank Cefin Campbell for those questions. There was an awful lot there, so I'll try to get through as many as I can. I'll start with what I think is the most important point that you raised there, on the devolution of the justice system—that is absolutely crucial indeed. It is and remains the main goal of the Welsh Government to see the criminal justice system devolved in its entirety. That is our ultimate ambition, that is our ultimate goal. Only through aligning justice policies with our wider pursuit of social justice, as you rightly said, will we be able to reduce pressures on the justice system and truly deliver the improvements needed.

But pragmatically, a change of this scale clearly needs a phased approach, and that's why our focus at the moment is on the areas most likely to be taken forward in the near future, including youth justice and probation. These are areas that are inextricably linked with a range of devolved responsibilities, so we believe that it's only right that they should be determined and delivered in Wales. And officials in both Governments are working together to explore options where responsibilities in the youth justice system can be realigned.

I'll turn to your question about female offenders—another very important question there. For women in Wales who commit crimes and are placed in custody, interventions for learning and skills can be complex, and currently, as you know, secure estates are sited in England. We are further developing our collaborative partnership with the UK Government to take forward a learning pathway for women, though, aligning it with our women's justice blueprint for Wales. A residential women's centre remains a key priority for the Welsh Government, as we believe that it will improve the lives of women in Wales and would be a real asset, providing therapeutic and rehabilitative services as part of a trauma-informed approach. And of course, that would give us the ability to roll out our own education programmes there as well. 

You also raise a very important point with regard to the Welsh language; it has certainly been a hot topic in the press recently, and one that I've been keeping a close eye on. I'll start with some positive news on that front, and that's the fact that the new HMPPS Welsh language scheme was published on 15 October, and that, I believe, is much strengthened compared to the previous document. There are key commitments in there regarding language preference and recording, bilingual materials and signage, staffing and capability, visitor and public-facing services, digital and tech access, and Welsh language culture and community.

As well as expanding the focus, it commits to providing Welsh language services outside of Wales, where the prisoner or probation clients have expressed a preference and where there is sufficient demand. There are also other arrangements in place to progress Welsh language priorities across the prison estate, including an internal Welsh language board, a strategic Welsh language plan, the appointment of a Welsh language lead for each prison in Wales and a regional expectation that each prison in Wales will have, as a minimum, a Welsh language forum for prisoners, opportunities for prisoners to learn and develop their Welsh language skills and a Welsh language action plan in place to address key priorities.

Turning to your question about the delivery of lessons through the medium of Welsh, the current status with regard to that is that the number of learners who would prefer to attend classes delivered through the medium of Welsh is really very small; therefore, under current resources, this preference can't be met. If I give you an idea of how small the numbers are, in HMP Cardiff, in a snapshot that was the latest available to me, there was one prisoner with a Welsh language speaking preference and one with a Welsh language written preference; one Welsh language speaking preference in Swansea and two for written; in HMPPS, it was three Welsh language speaking preference and three for written; in Prescoed, one of each; in Parc, five prisoners identified the Welsh language as being their speaking preference and three for written. Then, in Berwyn, which is, of course, our largest prison, 27 learners said that their preference was Welsh language speaking and 24 Welsh language learning.

Overall, that equates to, within this snapshot, 0.7 per cent of prisoners expressing a preference for Welsh language speaking and 0.5 per cent for Welsh language as their writing preference. So, it would be, absolutely, a goal for us to be able to deliver lessons through the medium of Welsh, and maybe with the Welsh Government's 2050 policy we’ll see an increase—not, of course, that I’m saying I want to see more Welsh speakers becoming prisoners.

You did ask a range of other questions, but I think I might be testing the Dirprwy Lywydd’s patience. If I just touch on data, you asked whether there is data available for all prisons. We’ve certainly got a lot more data now than we did have; whether it’s the data you’d want to see, if you would wish to write to me, I will share with you the data that we do have.

Thank you very much for your statement. I congratulate you on the work that has been done to raise the employability of prisoners, as it’s incredibly important for ensuring they don’t go back to prison. You mentioned that just over £11 million is directly provided by the UK Government for prisoner education, and I wonder if you're able to tell us if there's been any increase in that sum in the last year or the last five years.

The second question is: HMP Cardiff used to train people in rail track maintenance, which is obviously badly needed on the east-west relief lines going east of Cardiff. Is that still happening, because it was a job where there was a lot less discrimination against ex-prisoners? Were you aware that in HMP Berwyn—I learnt last week from the Welsh Affairs Committee—prisoners are being banned from speaking Welsh, which, were it to be a devolved service, would obviously be in breach of the law?

Lastly, six in 10 households never cook from scratch, and ultra-processed takeaways and ready meals do not provide the nutrition that people need to be able to cope with life's daily challenges. I wonder what opportunity is being made to ensure that every prisoner knows how to cook for themselves, so that they can be contributing to the service that's being provided internally in these prisons, but also enables them to go out and become cooks. There is a great shortage of cooks, and that would be not just baristas—proper cooks—because the prison service has absolutely ignored—

The Member must now conclude, please.

—the reports that came out of the young offender institution in Aylesbury, which showed that had a massive improvement on prisoner behaviour. 

I thank Jenny Rathbone for those questions. If we start with the funding issue, as I said, last year the total funding provided by the Ministry of Justice for learning and skills in the Welsh prison estate was £11.066 million. That hasn't increased, but the fact that we are able to add in our own additional support, through things like the young person's guarantee, ReAct+ and Communities for Work, definitely helps to bolster that funding.

You asked a question about Cardiff prison and its rail track course—certainly, on my visits to prisons, one of the areas where I've seen prisoners engaging most effectively is with training courses on the railways, and I know that not only is that an area of work where ex-offenders are welcome, but it's also, generally, really well-paid and secure employment as well. I'm not sure on the specifics of whether Cardiff is offering that course, but if you'd like to write to me, I will find out the answer to that for you.

I shared your concerns around those headlines from Berwyn with regard to the Welsh language. To me, I just thought it was such a shame that a prison I visited, which had such a wonderful learning offer, was in the headlines for those reasons. I understand the Welsh Language Commissioner is going to be visiting Berwyn this month, and I've asked for some feedback on that conversation, and also on the way that the prison will be looking to embed the new HMPPS Welsh language standards. 

You are right to identify cooking there, Jenny, as being a key area for prisoners. There are lots of employment opportunities within the hospitality industry for them on release, and certainly, in every prison that I have visited, I've seen some really good offers around that. The standout offer has to be the one I mentioned earlier to Natasha Asghar, which is the Right Course restaurant partnership in Berwyn, led by the tv chef Fred Sirieix. Unfortunately, I didn't get to meet him when I was there, but I was certainly very impressed with the cakes, pastries and freshly made coffee that the learners there provided for us.

Thank you, Minister, for the statement. There are a lot of positives to take away from the statement, and I don't want to be the person who adds a 'but' to my statement, but the Minister will be acutely aware of the deeply troubling period that HMP Parc in Bridgend has endured in recent years. In 2023 alone assaults on staff increased by 109 per cent and incidents of self-harm rose by 113 per cent. Seventeen individuals tragically lost their lives in 2024, more than in any other prison across England and Wales, with at least four of those deaths believed to be drug-related overdoses. This context makes it quite clear why efforts to promote stability and rehabilitation have faced such a profound challenge in Parc.

Earlier this year, an action plan submitted by the UK prison and probation service highlighted that few prisoners were attending education, skills or work sessions, partly due to the weaknesses in allocation processes and inconsistencies in the daily regime. It also noted that attendance data was not being used effectively to identify trends or tackle poor participation. Access to the library also remained far too limited, especially for those not enrolled in education classes. So, while there were some welcome references to positive developments at Parc in your statement, the overall picture presented by the prison and probation service's report is frankly stark. So, what hand will the Welsh Government have in helping improve provision in Parc with UK counterparts, and what improvements does the Minister expect to see in the coming months?

I thank Luke Fletcher for that series of questions on Parc prison. I think it's very important that you've asked that. We all know that you need a good, stable environment to deliver any type of learning, whether that's in schools, in colleges, in universities, but most especially within prisons. Although the operational running of prisons is reserved, we are liaising with UK Government and partners to ensure that action is being taken at Parc. I know that Parc is shortly to undergo its Estyn inspection—I believe it's in January—and therefore I've asked if I can visit in February to discuss the outcome of that inspection. I know that there are some positive initiatives going on there that they are keen to point out to me, and I do look forward to seeing those. But I think that the results of the Estyn inspection will be key for us to monitor delivery there, and just to show the work that's being done across Government, I know that the Cabinet Secretary for Social Justice met with Lord Timpson on 9 June to discuss some of the issues that you covered there.

Thank you very much for the statement. I think there were some very inspiring examples in what you told us. You did mention in response to Natasha about Cardiff prison and the fact that there are so many people there with short sentences. I think, in fact, that over 50 per cent are on remand in Cardiff prison, so that obviously creates an atmosphere of uncertainty. You mentioned the many short courses that were able to be offered, and I wondered if you had any evaluation or any opinion on how those short training courses were effective with prisoners who were on remand. So, that was one question. The other thing I did wonder—obviously, most of the prisoners are young men, and lots of them have children, and I wondered if there were any schemes that enabled the young men with their children to learn, and them to help their children and to further their abilities.

I thank Julie Morgan for those questions. You're absolutely right there in identifying the high number of prisoners at Cardiff prison who are on short sentences or on remand, and that's definitely one of the biggest challenges we face to our goal of delivering person-centric and timely education and training responses. As I said in my previous answer, this was something that I focused on during my visit to Cardiff, and they were very keen to point out the range of short courses that they offer to try and address this. So, every inmate at every prison in Wales undergoes a rigorous assessment process within five days of arriving at prison, and Cardiff has tailored its provision to deliver many short, sharply focused courses. So, as I said, there are some courses where skills accreditation can be achieved in as little as 10 hours, which I think is a really very important step that's taken for those men who are only there for a short time. I think the accessing of the CSCS card, in particular, is something that Cardiff prison should be really proud of—being able to deliver that training within the space of a week, which opens so many employment opportunities on release. I think the success there at Cardiff is shown by the fact that if you look at its key performance indicator performance, Cardiff has a 92.8 per cent completion rate, a 92.7 per cent achievement rate and an 86 per cent success rate.

In addition, Welsh Government provides additional employability support, and has increased the Working Wales adviser provision in HMP Cardiff from 2.5 days a week to 5.5 days a week. The intensity of that provision there definitely helps. You're right, they do have a good scheme there for fathers to be able to meet with their children, and I think that that is also very important in enabling rehabilitation.

Diolch yn fawr, Gweinidog, for your inspiring statement, as Julie Morgan said. Of course, one has to feel that you've got at least one hand tied behind your back, if not two, because of the jagged edge and because how horrific some of these statistics really are: 45 per cent of adults released from prison reoffending within 12 months. That's not just a statistic, that's a failure and, ultimately, it's our communities that suffer.

I do generally think you're doing your best as Welsh Government within a very difficult framework, and I really enjoyed hearing about the short courses you are now offering to deal with the issue Julie Morgan mentioned, about so many being on remand and so many being on short sentences. Education is so important: 40 per cent cuts in reoffending if they can receive the proper reoffending—. It's a second chance. It's a chance to rebuild, not to repeat.

What I find terrible, frightening, is that neurodiversity is three times more common in the prison population than outside. Half our prison population is neurodivergent. We're letting people down. How can we make sure that the education there in prison is available to all, especially people who are neurodivergent? Diolch yn fawr.

Thank you, Rhys ab Owen, for those questions. I agree with you about the scale of the problem to try and break that cycle of reoffending, and the importance of doing that as well. It certainly is a challenge, not just here in the UK but around the world as well. I think that's why it's so important that we've got Lord Timpson now taking on that role in UK Government because of the work that he has done and the success that he's had. He's bringing real-life experience and skills to that role.

You raise a very important point there about the level of neurodiversity within the prison population as well, and I'd like to reassure you that we do take a proactive person-centred approach to identifying and supporting neurodivergent individuals within our prisons. If I can give one example of that—this is a positive example from Parc prison—and that's called the Cynnwys unit. It's the neurodivergent unit there. It's a dedicated unit for autistic people, for those with learning disabilities or brain injuries. Since its establishment, the prison has seen a significant reduction in violence, self-harm, rule breaking and substance misuse among that particular cohort.

Also, if I can touch on the wider work of Welsh Government, we're currently implementing a neurodivergence improvement programme, widening the previous code of practice for autism to include other neurodivergent conditions. I'm sure that this work will have an impact on devolved services, working within the secure estate, and also provide our regional partnership boards, who work with us closely on employment opportunities for offenders once they're released—. It will provide those regional partnership boards with enhanced guidance and frameworks to ensure effective collaboration and integrated service delivery.

Thank you, Minister. 

Item 8 is next, the Health Impact Assessment (Wales) Regulations 2025, and I call on the Cabinet Secretary for Health and Social Care to move the motion— Jeremy Miles.

Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd. The regulations before the Senedd today represent a bold and progressive step forward in our collective mission to embed health equity at the heart of public decision making. If they're passed by the Senedd, they will mandate health impact assessments that will be carried out by a wide range of public bodies when proposing to make certain decisions. This is another important action that we are taking to help end those persistent and stubborn health inequalities that we know continue to blight too many communities in Wales. If these regulations are passed today, they will join other schemes that are also targeted at closing that gap, including the Marmot nation, universal free school meals in primary schools, our childhood vaccination programme, our programme to build 20,000 new homes to rent, and funded childcare for two to four-year-olds. 

Dirprwy Lywydd, at its core, a health impact assessment is a structured process that helps decision makers consider how their policies, their programmes or other projects might affect the physical and mental health of the population. Crucially, it goes beyond the boundaries of healthcare services to consider the wider determinants of health, like housing, transport, education, employment, culture, and the environment. These are the factors that shape our daily lives and, ultimately, our health outcomes. The Welsh Government has long championed a health-in-all-policies approach. The passage of these regulations will then position Wales as a world leader in the application of public health policy and legislation. So, this is not just a regulatory milestone, it's a statement of intent. It signals our commitment to prevention, to fairness and to ensuring that health considerations are not an afterthought but a foundational element of strategic decision making.

These regulations would place a statutory duty on specified public bodies to carry out health impact assessments when proposing to make certain decisions, to clarify when these assessments are required, and to promote consistency without creating unnecessary bureaucracy, complementing existing duties, such as those under the Well-being of Future Generations (Wales) Act 2015. Health impact assessments provide robust evidence to inform decisions to help reduce health inequalities and strengthen proposals that more broadly support population health. They enable public bodies to demonstrate how their policies contribute to a healthier, fairer Wales, and they foster transparency and accountability in how decisions are made.

From an operational perspective, importantly, the regulations are designed to be proportionate and practical. Public Health Wales will provide guidance and training, and a transition period has been built in to allow organisations to prepare and to align with financial and planning cycles. This is not about adding complexity, it's about embedding the health of our population into the DNA of our public services.

I call on the Chair of the Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee—Mike Hedges.

Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer. The Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee considered the draft regulations on 29 September and subsequently considered the Welsh Government response to the committee's report on 13 October.

The committee's report identified one technical reporting point and one merits scrutiny reporting point. The regulations provide that Public Health Wales must publish guidance to assist public bodies carrying out a health impact assessment. However, the explanatory memorandum in relation to these regulations also states that Public Health Wales is required to provide a programme of support to public bodies. The technical reporting point notes that this programme of support is not specified in the regulations themselves. In response, the Welsh Government set out that the detail of the additional assistance would be contained in direction to be issued by the Welsh Ministers under the National Health Service (Wales) Act 2006. The response states that this will enable the system to be flexible and reactive to the requirements of relevant public bodies.

The committee's merits scrutiny reporting point highlights that Part 6 of the Public Health (Wales) Act 2017 was commenced on 19 September 2025, just over eight years after Part 6 was enacted. The Welsh Government's response stated that work on implementing the 2017 Act started immediately after the passing of the Act. However, it sets out that staff were redeployed in 2017 to work on the Brexit response, then again in 2020, in response to the COVID-19 pandemic, and that work resumed on the regulations in 2022-23.

The Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee was not satisfied with the justification for the eight-year delay provided by the Welsh Government in its response. We subsequently wrote to the Cabinet Secretary for Health and Social Care to express our disappointment in the untimely implementation by the Welsh Government of legislation passed by the Senedd. We considered the Cabinet Secretary's response to our letter on Monday. In the letter, the Cabinet Secretary reiterates the impact of Brexit and the pandemic on resources available to develop the regulations. The Cabinet Secretary also states that extensive engagement with stakeholders has been essential in ensuring that the regulations are not disproportionately bureaucratic or burdensome. The committee noted the Cabinet Secretary's response.

The Cabinet Secretary to respond.

Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd. I'm grateful to the Chair of the Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee for setting out the terms in which the Government responded to the work of the committee, and I'm grateful to them for their consideration. I would just say that we are, in a sense, all disappointed by the delay, which has been necessary. But, as someone who had some involvement both in relation to the preparation for Brexit and the consequences in particular of COVID, I can assure Members that the pressures that were visited upon all sorts of aspects of Government activity were very real and significant over a prolonged period of time, and we have engaged proactively with the work of consulting on these regulations to ensure that they do reflect both our policy priorities and are proportionate and effective in the means in which we plan to introduce them. So, I'm grateful to the committee for its consideration.

The proposal is to agree the motion. Does any Member object? No. The motion is therefore agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.

No. Sorry, Sioned. You weren't on the list.

Item 9, the Land Transaction Tax (Modification of Special Tax Sites Relief) (Wales) (No. 2) Regulations 2025. I call on the Cabinet Secretary for Finance and Welsh Language to move the motion—Mark Drakeford.

Diolch yn fawr, Dirprwy Lywydd. These regulations amend Schedule 21A to the Land Transaction Tax and Anti-avoidance of Devolved Taxes (Wales) Act 2017 to provide land transaction tax relief to the newly designated north Anglesey special tax sites within the Ynys Môn free port. These new sites include the former Octel and Rhosgoch sites.

The regulations provide relief until 30 September 2029, with a review scheduled in 2028. Following that review, it will be for the next Welsh Government to decide whether or not to extend the relief. If the Senedd approve the regulations today, relief for transactions in these new areas will come into force on Friday 21 November. This will align with the UK Government's coming-into-force date of their special tax site designation regulations for the north Anglesey special tax sites in the Ynys Môn free port, meaning all the reserved and devolved tax incentives will be available on the same date. I ask Members to approve the regulations.

I call on the Chair of the Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee—Mike Hedges.

Diolch, Deputy Presiding Officer. The Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee considered the draft regulations on 10 November and subsequently considered the Welsh Government response to the committee's report on Monday.

The committee's report identifies one technical reporting point and two merit scrutiny reporting points. The coming-into-force date in italics below the title of the regulation states that they come into force on 21 November 2025. However, regulation 1 provides that they come into force at midnight on 21 November 2025. The technical reporting point seeks clarity on the purpose and meaning of 'midnight' in this provision, and why it differs from the coming-into-force date in italics below the title. In its response, the Welsh Government stated that it would add 'at 12 a.m.' to the text below the title and replace 'midnight' with '12 a.m.' in regulation 1 prior to making the regulations.

The first merits scrutiny reporting point highlights that the regulations extend special tax relief from land transaction tax to further areas forming part of the Ynys Môn free port until 30 September 2029, thereby affecting payments made by the Welsh Revenue Authority into the Welsh consolidated fund. The second highlights that the tax relief in the regulations is a subsidy, and that the subsidy control scheme for the Welsh free ports has been referred to the Competition and Markets Authority and registered on the subsidy database in line with the Subsidy Control Act 2022.

Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet i ymateb.

I thank the Chair of the Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee for their report, Dirprwy Lywydd. Mike Hedges faithfully recorded the way in which the Government has responded to the point that the committee had raised about the consistency within the regulations, and that has now been rectified before the regulations will be made. This targeted relief is one of the key drivers of the Welsh free-ports programme. The free-port tax incentives, including LTT relief, have been designed with the intention to help sites attract private investment, support economic growth in north Anglesey, and deliver the wider policy objectives of the free-ports programme. Again, I ask Members to approve the regulations.

The proposal is to agree the motion. Does any Member object? No. The motion is, therefore, agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.

Item 10 is next, which is on the Land Transaction Tax (Modification of Special Tax Sites Relief) (Wales) (No. 3) Regulations 2025, and I call on the Cabinet Secretary for Finance and Welsh Language to move the motion—Mark Drakeford.

Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd. These regulations amend Schedule 21A to the Land Transaction Tax and Anti-avoidance of Devolved Taxes (Wales) Act 2017 to provide land transaction tax relief for sites within the Flintshire and Wrexham investment zone. The regulations provide the relief until 30 September 2034 and is a key element of the Welsh investment zone programme.

The investment zone has chosen to use part of the £160 million available funding to provide devolved and reserved tax reliefs, in addition to the direct funding, as a package of interventions. If the Senedd approve the regulations today, relief for transactions in these new areas will come into force on Friday 21 November. This will align with the UK Government's coming-into-force date of their special tax site designation regulations for the Flintshire and Wrexham investment zone, meaning all the reserved and devolved tax incentives will be available on the same date. I ask Members to approve the regulations.

I call on the chair of the Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee—Mike Hedges.

Diolch, Dirprwy Llywydd. The Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee considered the draft regulations on 10 November and subsequently considered the Welsh Government response to the committee's report on Monday. The committee's report on these regulations identifies a similar technical reporting point and merits scrutiny point as outlined in relation to the No. 2 regulations. The report seeks clarity on why the regulations themselves specify they will come into force at 12:01 on 21 November 2025, whereas the coming-into-force date in italics below the title is 21 November 2025 and omits the relevant time. In response, the Welsh Government stated it would add '12:01' to the text below the title prior to making the regulations.

The merits scrutiny reporting point highlights that the regulations extend special tax relief from land transaction tax to designated areas of the Flintshire and Wrexham investment zone until 30 September 2034, affecting payments made by the Welsh Revenue Authority into the Welsh consolidated fund, and that the subsidy control scheme for Welsh investment zones has been referred to the Competition and Markets Authority and registered on the subsidy database in line with the Subsidy Control Act 2022.

The Cabinet Secretary to reply.

Diolch yn fawr, Dirprwy Lywydd. Well, once again, the technical reporting point raised by the Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee has been corrected and is, therefore, rectified before the making of the regulations. The regulations themselves are an important step in supporting investment and growth in the new Flintshire and Wrexham investment zone and, once again, I ask Members to approve these regulations.

The proposal is to agree the motion. Does any Member object? No. The motion is, therefore, agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.

Item 11 today is a debate on the Welsh Language Commissioner's annual report 2024-25, and I call on the Cabinet Secretary for Finance and Welsh Language to move the motion—Mark Drakeford.

Thank you very much, Dirprwy Lywydd. It's my pleasure to open this debate today and to ask Members to note the annual report of the Welsh Language Commissioner for the financial year 2024-25. Of course, a lot will have happened beyond the scope of this report and, today, I want to focus on issues within the annual report, which is the purpose of this debate.

The report reflects a year's work by the commissioner to strengthen the Welsh language in many different areas. The commissioner is an independent voice on the Welsh language, and the report demonstrates that clearly. During the reporting year, the work of the commissioner focused on four key strategic objectives, namely ensuring fairness, justice and rights for Welsh speakers; ensuring that the Welsh language is a consideration in policy and legislation; maintaining and increasing organisations' compliance with their statutory duties; and increasing the use of the Welsh language by organisations across all sectors.

Dirprwy Lywydd, the commissioner has moved to a more proactive approach of co-regulation, which focuses on six regulation outcomes. This approach focuses on regulation in a way that has the greatest impact in order to improve compliance, to encourage more use of the Welsh language and to improve the experiences of Welsh speakers. Research and discussion undertaken with the public continues to be an important part of the commissioner's work, ensuring that the views of Welsh speakers do steer the work of improving services. The annual survey demonstrated that a higher percentage of people felt that their opportunities to use the Welsh language had increased. There was also a higher percentage of the opinion that Welsh language services provided by public bodies were generally improving and that they were more likely to make use of those services when the services were properly promoted.

However, Dirprwy Lywydd, it is clear that challenges remain. Only 17 per cent of the survey sample noted that they preferred to use the Welsh language with public bodies. Some of the factors influencing language choice are the technical nature of a subject, individual confidence, and the other person speaking Welsh first. This shows that we need to continue to tackle barriers to the use of the Welsh language so that people feel comfortable and willing to use the Welsh language naturally.

Dirprwy Lywydd, increasing the use of Welsh language services is one of the priorities of the Welsh Government's 'Cymraeg 2050' strategy, and is also a priority for the commissioner. The commissioner wants to see organisations improving the way that they promote Welsh language services, in order to ensure that more use is made of those services. I welcome the commissioner's focus on children and young people too. The constructive input of the commissioner whilst developing the Welsh Language and Education (Wales) Act 2025 was important. The Act ensures that every child in Wales will have the opportunity to become a Welsh speaker. It's crucial, therefore, that there are opportunities for children and young people to live, learn and work through the medium of the Welsh language.

Increasing the use of the Welsh language in workplaces is also a priority for the commissioner—something I warmly welcome. As part of this work, the commissioner has worked with organisations to review policies on the internal use of the Welsh language. I'm pleased that the Welsh Government has been able to contribute to this work through our 'Cymraeg. It belongs to us all' strategy, where we aim to be a truly bilingual organisation by 2050.

Over 130 bodies are now captured by the standards system, including the water companies. I'm pleased that there's been general progress in terms of the compliance level among the bodies subject to standards. The commissioner is ready to support organisations by providing clear guidance and constructive engagement in order to ensure that bodies understand their duties and responsibilities and comply with those. Ensuring that duties like the standards are implemented appropriately and effectively is an important part of the commissioner's work, as is the ability to hold us as a Government and other organisations to account when required. 

The number of complaints and enforcement actions are reduced during this reporting period as compared to previous reporting years. I support the principle that success should be measured according to the quality of Welsh language services and the views of the public on those services, not on the number of complaints or enforcement actions taken only. It's important, Dirprwy Lywydd, to bear in mind that dealing with complaints is one element of the commissioner's regulatory work. Regulation also includes monitoring work in order to identify and resolve problems before they lead to complaints, whilst simultaneously it is important that the commissioner continues to feel confident and willing to use the range of powers that she has and to use her powers in full when required. 

The commissioner plays a key role in influencing public policy, from education and skills to health and care, housing and planning. At the time encapsulated within this report, the commissioner was eager to seek clarity as to how the Government intends to implement the Commission for Welsh-speaking Communities's recommendation that we need to establish areas of higher density linguistic significance and that she sees an opportunity for standards to contribute directly to the implementation or delivery of some of those recommendations. Importantly, the report demonstrates that the commissioner is willing to challenge us as a Government and to highlight areas where there are opportunities to ensure better, more effective consideration of the Welsh language. The brief that she published providing an update on the situation in terms of dementia care for Welsh speakers has led to renewed momentum in this area. I appreciate the commissioner's contribution in all policy areas and am willing to work with her where appropriate to ensure that the Welsh language is considered in policy decisions. The commissioner also works with businesses and charities to encourage them to provide and develop Welsh language services. During the year, 47 bodies joined the Cynnig Cymraeg programme, bringing the total to 160.

Dirprwy Lywydd, during the year, the International Association of Language Commissioners' conference was staged here in Wales; it was an important event that highlighted the impact of Welsh language standards on the international stage. It was a privilege to see Wales leading the global conversation on linguistic rights before transferring the chair to New Brunswick in Canada.

During the reporting period, the launch of the standardised place names database was an important step towards protecting the status and promoting the use of Welsh language place names. I would also like to note the commissioner's contribution in ensuring that Welsh language names alone will now be used for Senedd constituency names, which is a significant step in the history of the Welsh language. 

Dirprwy Lywydd, the commissioner will publish her third quinquennial report in 2026, and I look forward to reading that report, and I am sure that it will include valuable, useful and challenging information that will help us to steer the commissioner's and the Government's work for the future. The commissioner makes a valuable contribution to promoting and increasing the use of the Welsh language. The role of the commissioner is crucial in providing an independent voice on the Welsh language and to challenge us as a Government, and other organisations too. I look forward to continuing to work with the commissioner to increase use of the Welsh language and to deliver the objectives of 'Cymraeg 2050'. Thank you.

I'm pleased to take part in this debate today and note the ongoing work of the Welsh Language Commissioner in raising awareness of the use of the language and its importance, as well as increasing opportunities for people in Wales to be able to use the language, which provides more options and freedom for people to use and speak Welsh whenever they wish to do so.

Dirprwy Lywydd, I'd like to start by raising concerns that were raised by the commissioner in the performance report section of the annual report. The commissioner notes that:

'Since devolution, we have seen a number of policies and strategies that were intended to strengthen the planning processes of Welsh-medium education. Nevertheless, we have seen little real progress over the last twenty years'.

We know, unfortunately, that this is backed by the results of the last census, which showed that only 17.8 per cent of the population in Wales can speak Welsh, which is the lowest level ever, and shows the reality of the lack of progress that has been made to promote the speaking of Welsh since devolution, and, evidently, that the number of Welsh speakers has been reducing since 2001. The census also showed anomalies and geographical variations, with promising growth of the use of the Welsh language in Cardiff, in the Vale and in Rhondda, no progress in Merthyr, but a reduction in the other local authorities.

The commissioner, therefore, is right to note this lack of progress and the deficiencies in the current language planning system. We know that targets aren't the problem. The problem is the progress towards achieving these targets. Even though I do appreciate the scale of the task and the time that it takes to increase the number of speakers of any language, the Government has had a lot of time to do that.

However, I'd like to reiterate my hope in terms of the aims of the Welsh language and education Act, as also noted in the annual report, and we've spoken about this several times in this Chamber, and its ability to increase opportunities for young people to learn the language from a young age.

We know that one issue made evident by the Act that was already raised in the census is how information was gathered about the ability of people to speak Welsh through the self-assessment process. The evidence from the census shows that many, if not the majority of, Welsh speakers tend to underestimate their ability, providing lower statistics. So, it's important that we have the European general framework for language skills now to structure language ability and understanding.

One element of the CEFR that I've been concerned about in the context of reaching 'Cymraeg 2050', and something I want to raise with the Cabinet Secretary today, is the understanding outside educational settings. Even though I do understand that understanding of CEFR within education settings in the context of the Welsh education Act is promising, as learners become adults, or learn as adults themselves, they might not interact with the framework regularly and so they might be less aware of the grading system or where they sit in that framework. So, we need to ensure that those who are outwith educational settings are aware of CEFR and the grading system in order for the data on language progress to reflect as accurately as possible where we are in the years to come and the impact of the Act itself.

Another point that I want to raise today, Dirprwy Lywydd, is work on the Cynnig Cymraeg and efforts to encourage the private sector. I have often raised concerns about progress on the Welsh language in the private sector and the incentives for businesses and organisations to take part in supporting work towards the Government's targets. What we can't afford to do is to have a two-speed process in terms of incorporating the language in the public and private sectors.

And finally—. Sorry, I was going to address another point, but I don't have any time left. Thank you.

I welcome the opportunity to discuss this report. I had an opportunity to scrutinise the commissioner last week, and I was pleased to hear her response. I think you're entirely right, Cabinet Secretary, in terms of the important role that the Welsh Language Commissioner and all of our commissioners have in terms of challenging and holding to account, not just the Welsh Government, but also in terms of our scrutiny too. And it's very important in terms of policy development too. I welcome the fact that the Welsh Language Commissioner has published a manifesto with clear asks for all parties hoping to be here, or who already represent people in this Senedd, and I very much hope that every party will engage with the commissioner's office on that.

Some of the questions that I have are questions that were raised by the commissioner. Perhaps you haven't had an opportunity to reflect on them, because obviously it's a comprehensive report, but just in terms of the consideration you've given to the resources available to the Welsh Language Commissioner, and the extent to which that perhaps has had an impact on the commissioner's ability to deal with the full range of responsibilities that she has. Clearly, it's a budget that has reduced because of the challenges in recent years, but I would like to know what discussions you have had in terms of some of the things that haven't been possible for the commissioner to take forward, or perhaps what impact the budget might have had in terms of enabling more promotional work, which is such a crucially important part, of course, of the commissioner's role.

You've already referred to dementia specifically and 'More than just words'. I do think that that challenge is a fair one from the commissioner, as you've recognised. It's disappointing to see the lack of progress since 2018, and that is something that we should be concerned about. And I'm pleased to see that the re-establishment of the sub-group has happened, but I just want to understand how we can avoid losing momentum again in future, because clearly this is a key element.

I also wanted to raise with you, if we look at the document that sits alongside the annual report, which is the register of enforcement activities, I had the chance to question the commissioner as to why there had been a reduction, and so on, so I've had that opportunity. But what I'm interested in is how you, as a Government, go through those enforcement activities. Because when we have had discussions in the past on that, we often see many local authorities' names coming up time and time again, and they're often the same names, and sometimes for the same reasons. And I note in this year's report that there is one example from the Vale of Glamorgan  Council's social services department that is very concerning indeed. What I wanted to understand was how you, as a Government, look at those enforcement activities, and what discussions you are having with local authorities to ensure that they understand the importance of this. Because clearly that is a dialogue that I'm sure you are having, but then why are we seeing the same local authorities failing to comply time and again?

I think it was quite striking to see how many leisure services are named in terms of enforcement activities this time. Well, we know the challenges facing local authorities in terms of their budgets, and that many local authorities have now handed those services to other companies. So, how do we ensure, when such contracts are drawn up, that they too understand the importance of the Welsh language? As you will know, we've mentioned the importance of the ability to use the Welsh language outside the classroom. Well, leisure services are a prominent and crucial part of that, but again we see that this is a problem, and it's a problem in more than one local authority. So, I want to know what you intend to do, so that we don't have to waste the Welsh Language Commissioner's time and resources conducting investigations into this, and that we see improvements in those services. 

Specifically, there was one reference to the Seren Academy and the failure to provide a Welsh language course. I wanted to ask what work you've done to ensure that all the enforcement activities noted by the commissioner are being taken forward.

So, I very much hope that you're taking these comments in the way that I intended them, as constructive comments, but I do think that many of the enforcement activities should be avoided, particularly when it comes to local authorities, and also the Welsh Government.

In recent months, I've read a lot about the role of the commissioner, not all positive, but I'd like to take this opportunity to declare my support for the commissioner and her office and the important role that she plays in ensuring the future of the Welsh language.

It's not an easy task to maintain a minority language in the shadow of the world's strongest language. It's not a new thing or an easy thing to solve the low use of the Welsh language. I see that with my own children. Even though Welsh is the language of our household and both parents speak Welsh, the children tend to speak English to each other. That's not a new thing, unfortunately.

But, there are signs of hope: the friends of my five-year-old daughter who come from non-Welsh-speaking homes becoming fluent in a very short period of time; young fathers like Matt from Kent and Paddy from Essex striving to learn the Welsh language. Paddy has four Welsh lessons a week to become fluent to speak Welsh to his sons. Matt is very proud of speaking Welsh. Matt and I were having a curry one day—there's a photo of you in this curry house, by the way, Cabinet Secretary—and the First Minister walked in, and Matt from Kent said in Welsh to the First Minister, 'I'm learning Welsh because I want the Welsh language to continue.' He said that, and Eluned Morgan was delighted to hear that from Matt from Kent. So, there are signs of hope.

Now, I've read some criticism, and you mentioned this, that the annual report shows a reduction in the number of investigations following complaints. Well, I'd be surprised if that wasn't happening, and I'd be critical if that was not happening, if organisations were not improving, if the commissioner wasn't influencing organisations and that organisations weren't changing their policies and the way that they deal with the Welsh language. So, I don't see that as a criticism; I hope that this has happened because of a cultural shift following the influence of the Welsh Language Commissioner and her office.

It's good news also that 130 organisations now need to comply with standards, and 160 have committed to providing more Welsh language services and have received official recognition from the commissioner. Further good news is the launch of an interactive data dashboard on the results of the 2021 census, which is vital in order to make language policies and for easy access to the data.

I agree with you, Cabinet Secretary, I was pleased to see the priorities of the commissioner for the next five years in critical areas for the language: health and care, it's so important that health and care through the medium of Welsh are available when needed; children and young people, education is vital to ensure the future of the language; and I was also pleased to see that the workforce has a prominent place. We see it here, don't we? I remember when Tom Giffard started, you weren't making speeches in Welsh when you started here, and now you make speeches in Welsh. We see it in our offices. It's possible to normalise the language in the workplace, maybe just by the use of a simple sentence like, 'Would you like tea or coffee?' The Welsh language is being normalised in offices, in workplaces such as this one.

To me, this report shows progress. It offers hope. Yes, there are major challenges for the Welsh language. There is a lot of work still to be done to ensure that the Welsh language, our ancient fair language, prospers and doesn't just survive, but the language commissioner is a part of that prosperity. Thank you.

I call on the Cabinet Secretary to reply to the debate.

Thank you to everyone who's contributed to the debate, Dirprwy Lywydd, and for the constructive and optimistic contributions that we have heard from all Members. As Tom Giffard said, the report does identify some challenging issues for us, but it also demonstrates what the commissioner is doing to try and assist us to overcome some of those challenges.

In May of last year, which is beyond the scope of this report, the commissioner published her report on the use of the Welsh language among young people outside of school. She did that at the Urdd Eisteddfod in order to demonstrate that, when we provide opportunities for young people to use the Welsh language in areas such as sports, the arts and so on, they do so. It's just important that we develop more of those opportunities for them to do that.

Heledd, thank you very much for the spirit in which you made your contribution. The commissioner's manifesto is an important document. I've had an opportunity to discuss it with her in general terms in relation to the ideas in that manifesto. She is giving the next Senedd a piece of work to progress with what we've been doing during this Senedd term, where we've extended the number of bodies captured by the standards. She wants the Senedd to focus, in the next term, on those new bodies that she wants to see becoming subject to standards.

Dirprwy Lywydd, Heledd Fychan also raised a number of important questions as to what we do with the information published by the commissioner in terms of the enforcement activities that she undertakes. As Minister with responsibility for the Welsh language, I do receive advice from my officials that draws my attention to what the commissioner has said, if patterns do emerge from the enforcement activity of the commissioner, and there are opportunities for us to pursue some of those issues. I met during this last month with local authority cabinet members with responsibility for the Welsh language from all of the local authorities, to talk to them. I had a very full agenda that I wanted to discuss with them, but those opportunities are available to us, and we can pursue the information published by the commissioner.

Heledd Fychan raised an interesting point, Dirprwy Lywydd, and I have identified this new pattern myself in the information provided by the commissioner, and that is in relation to leisure centres. As she said in her report that it's important to provide more opportunities for young people to use the Welsh language as they play or play sport, when local authorities pass the responsibility for leisure activities to outside organisations, it's important that they also transfer that responsibility for the Welsh language clearly in that same manner. 

Just to say a few words on 'More than just words'. I know that Jeremy Miles takes seriously everything that we're doing in 'More than just words' in the health and care sector. He has established a new group to advise us and to draw people together to share their experiences and to do more to implement 'More than just words' for people who use our health and care services and want to do so through the medium of Welsh.

Rhys ab Owen, thank you very much for your contribution. I agree with you, of course, on the importance of the commissioner's work. Of course, challenges remain, but when complaint numbers are going down, I agree with you that that demonstrates that things are improving in our public services, and that is good news. 

When Rhys ab Owen mentioned the importance of the workforce, that is crucially important, in my opinion. One of the things that runs through the commissioner's report is the importance of the use of the Welsh language. Tom Giffard made the point that there is no point having policies in place if people don't actually use the services available to them once those policies have been put in place. That is why, in the work that we are doing, we do want to see 1 million Welsh speakers by 2050, but we also want to double the use of the Welsh language. The commissioner's work is crucial to that.

The proposal is to agree the motion. Does any Member object? No. The motion is therefore agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.

That brings today's proceedings to a close. Thank you very much.