National Assembly for Wales

Good afternoon and welcome, everyone, to this afternoon's Plenary session. Questions to the First Minister is the first item on our agenda, and the first question is from Tom Giffard. 

'Llwybr Newydd', our transport strategy, sets out our vision to improve transport for all parts of Wales. We will deliver this vision through the projects set out in our national transport delivery plan and the south-west Wales regional transport plan, which will open for the public, in terms of consultation, next week.

Thank you very much for that response, First Minister. 

I’m sure, in your listening exercise, many people would have mentioned to you their frustrations with sitting on the M4, and we know that this Welsh Labour Government cancelled the planned M4 relief road project. But, in addition to that, we’ve also seen in the last couple of years the cancellation of key junction projects—junction upgrade projects—on the M4, including at junction 45 and junction 47 at Penllergaer. These are really important because, as we know, a study in 2017 showed that the M4 could come to a standstill around 30 times in a day, and these junction upgrades were absolutely crucial to ensure that we keep Wales and our M4—our main arterial road—moving. So, can I have an assurance from you that you will look again at these junction upgrade projects around Swansea to see whether they can be brought back under your leadership?

Well, thanks very much, and it is important to make sure we keep the traffic flowing, and that’s why there have been methods to introduce speed limits, for example, to make sure that the flow just continues and you don’t get that stop start that annoys us all. In relation to the junction upgrades, I have heard the frustrations of many people in those areas, and I’ll ask the transport Secretary to look into that.

The closure of Lloyds Bank in Pontardawe later this year, which was announced last week, will leave the entire Swansea valley without a single bank. And those who rely on in-person banking services, especially the elderly, and those without access to digital services, will now have to travel much further afield to access those still needed in-person services. For those who use public transport, this will, of course, be an especial challenge. While services exist between Pontardawe and places like Morriston or Neath, for those living further up the Swansea valley or those in the Amman valley, accessing services will become increasingly difficult. So, what steps is the Welsh Government taking to improve transport links in South Wales West, and especially in the Valleys communities, to ensure that those communities can access essential services, like banks, that are becoming increasingly centralised?

Diolch yn fawr. I know how annoying it is when a local bank shuts, but the fact is that so many more people are doing their banking online. That is the truth, but we also know that lots of people want to do their banking still face to face. And that’s why it is important to make sure, and we have made sure, that we support and work with the Link system, to make sure that there are hubs being developed in certain parts of Wales. But it is important, also, to recognise that people need to get to those hubs, and that’s why we are looking at how we can reform bus franchising to make sure that they go on routes that are going to be suitable for the people in those communities. So, I do hope you will be supporting the legislation when that comes through, which means there’ll be a lot more control and authority in terms of local government being able to determine what those routes might look like. And, of course, the consultation on that is starting next week in the Swansea area. So, I hope you will respond, and I hope people in your area will respond to making sure those routes are suitable, so that they can actually get to those facilities that you want them to.

Transport infrastructure is important. We need bus and train companies to co-ordinate timetables, and for buses to stop and pick up outside a railway station rather than around the corner. In 2018, I was told by the then transport Minister that Landore station would be one of the stations considered for reopening. I’ve long campaigned for this, both from an environmental perspective and to deal with the parking problems in the area around the Liberty stadium. The London-Swansea main line travels through Landore station. Can the First Minister provide an update on the reopening of Landore station?

Well, thanks very much. Part of the consultation that’s going out next week will certainly include a consultation on transport interchanges. So, I hope that is something that you, again, will respond to. There’s going to be a suggestion of a new bus station in Neath, but also new bus stops, travel behaviour programmes. And there will be a long list, I think, of priorities and projects that need to be prioritised, so I hope you look at those. Specifically in relation to Landore station, there is a feasibility study being undertaken at the moment for up to seven new railway stations in the Swansea bay area. We think that this could attract about 2 million passengers a year, so that would be significant. Of course, rail infrastructure is not devolved, so we're having those conversations with the UK Government. But I think it is important that local people get involved in that consultation.

James Price, the chief executive of Transport for Wales, said at the weekend that the business case for rail investment in south-west Wales was very strong and that the benefit-cost ratio was unusually high. Now, the rail pipeline that's been announced with the UK Government—very welcome—does not include south-west Wales. It's got some excellent schemes in north-east and south-east Wales, which are absolutely right. But will the First Minister make sure, when she speaks to the UK Government, that it's not just the Oxford-Cambridge corridor that needs to be prioritised, but the south-west corridor, especially with such a strong economic case?

I, too, heard what I thought was an excellent interview by James Price, just setting out, actually, how much work has been done over the past 10 years in terms of rail development: £800 million worth of new trains on our tracks; 75 per cent of the journeys that take place on our tracks are now done on new trains that are made here in Wales. These are things that I think we should celebrate. But there's a whole load—and you'll be aware, as the former transport Minister, that you can't do everything at the same time. So, you do have to make sure that there is a phased approach. But I was, too, struck by the very high returns that he suggested could be made in relation to the cost-benefit ratio, and, certainly, this is something that we will keep on the agenda with the UK Government.

The Welsh Government’s planning policy position on new power lines is that, where possible, they should be laid underground.

The estimated 150,000 people that live along the routes of proposed new power lines in Wales will be very heartened to hear that restatement of the Welsh Government's policy preference, and, obviously, Ministers will have to take decisions in relation to planning applications to reflect that policy, or they would face legal challenge. But, in Westminster last week, we heard that the Westminster Government is proposing to limit that right of judicial review in relation to infrastructure planning applications, including pylon developments. I'd be grateful if the First Minister could quash any uncertainty in this regard and state unequivocally that there is no intention to weaken access to justice in Wales in the way that the Westminster Government is intending.

Well, when we look at the pylon situation in particular, I think it is important that we recognise that there is a difference in terms of costs and things. So, one of the things we've done is to make sure we've set up an independent advisory group on grids, and members of that committee have real expertise. One of the things they're identifying and reviewing is that they're commissioning to make sure that they have the most recent cost information to provide evidence for what is the cost differential, because I do think it's important for us to recognise as well that there are implications for how much people will be paying on their energy bills. So, we've got to get the balance right. When it comes to judicial challenges, that's, obviously, an issue for the UK Government.

First Minister, the undergrounding of power lines is important not only to reduce the visual impact of pylons, but also to minimise the disruption to local communities. One of the key projects in Wales is floating offshore wind within the Celtic sea, allowing developers to access between 15 GW and 50 GW of energy. While these flow projects are located some 40 km off the coast of south Pembrokeshire, they will require extensive onshoring of cabling. So, First Minister, can you provide an update on what measures are being taken to ensure that cabling to the Pembroke substation is routed through a single, dedicated channel, rather than a piecemeal approach of multiple routes? This is essential to avoiding unnecessary harm to the natural environment and minimising disruption for the local community, something that local county councillor Steve Alderman and I agree on.

Thanks very much. We are determined to make sure that we take advantage of the natural gifts that we’ve been given in Wales when it comes to offshore wind. That’s why we now have a task and finish group that has been set up by the Secretary for the economy and planning. One of the purposes of that group is to make sure that everybody is connected, understands what needs to be done, and in what order, and that includes, I think, the necessity of making sure that we have the grids developed in the right way. The kind of infrastructure that you need for offshore grids are actually 400 kV lines rather than 132 kV lines—I can bore for Britian on this one—but it needs to be recognised that that will be a UK Government—. It’ll be the National Grid who will determine that, rather than a devolved responsibility.

The national grid was created when electricity was generated in power stations and then distributed to users. At Morriston Hospital, as the First Minister knows, there is a solar farm across the road from it providing electricity to the hospital. This reduces the transmission distance. We know that, while technological developments have minimised loss in the system, approximately 5 per cent of electricity is shed during transmission and distribution. Does the First Minister agree that we should be looking for more local generation of electricity, and that we can use the offshore-wind-generated electricity to provide energy for large-scale data storage, the demand for which is growing exponentially?

Thanks very much. It won’t be just the data centres that will use energy; we’ve had some research undertaken that suggests that demand for electricity will triple by 2050, so we’ve got to get serious about this. If we want our children to have the kind of quality of life that we have, we have to prepare for it. It’s our responsibility to prepare for it, because this stuff does not happen overnight. You’re quite right—where we can, why don’t we create that energy locally and use it locally, as they have done so successfully in that model in Morriston Hospital, where 1,000 tonnes of carbon has been saved and £500,000 a year in bills has been saved? But what we do have in Wales is this Ynni Cymru project. I was delighted to go to Tredegar last weekend to see a community project, the Little Theatre company, which is absolutely central to the community there. Solar panel were being put on the roof as a result of Welsh Government funding. That is delivery by the Welsh Government on the things that matter to people in their communities.

Questions now from the party leaders. On behalf of the Welsh Conservatives today, Paul Davies.

First Minister, the former First Minister and your Cabinet Secretary for Finance and Welsh Language recently said, and I quote:

‘If you're asking me, if I had a blank sheet of paper and could just do the things I think needed to be done, we would have fewer hospitals in Wales.’

He went on further to say:

‘We have too many hospitals and too many beds.’

Do you agree with those comments, First Minister?

Let me just be clear that we are not going to be closing hospitals in Wales. What the finance Secretary was alluding to was, if he had a blank piece of paper, we would not be starting from here. And that is the case. I think we're absolutely clear, in terms of our strategic health plan, that we want to see a shift back into communities, we want to see far better use of digital, and we're also all aware that there are around 1,000 people in our hospitals every week who are ready to leave but they can't leave because we need that care in the community. So, shifting that into the community makes sense. I'm not going to apologise on his behalf, because I support him because he's right to say that shifting resources into the community is what we should be doing.

First Minister, you've just said you want to close more hospitals. That's what you've just said, because you agree—[Interruption.]

I think you can carry on with your question, and I'm sure that the First Minister will want to respond as well. 

Because you clearly agree with your Cabinet Secretary that there should be fewer hospitals. First Minister, you recently appeared on Any Questions? and you gave a stark warning that health bosses will not get extra cash for their services if they do not cut waiting lists. You went on to say that there needs to be better management by health boards. But First Minister, you can't pass the buck; your party has been running our Welsh NHS for the last 26 years. The reality on the ground, and outlined by the Royal College of Physicians, is that the workforce is burned out and the health bosses are not to blame. It's clear that you have failed to bring forward the workforce recruitment and retention plan that our Welsh NHS needs. With staff morale at an all-time low, do you think that it was sensible and rational to once again blame health boards, while making the situation even worse by threatening to make real-term cuts to public services?

I tell you what would be worse, Paul—. Well, first of all, it would be good if you just withdrew that. The fact is that I was very clear that we are not closing hospitals in Wales. I could not have been clearer, and I am saying it again. And I'll tell you the other thing: we're just about to be discussing this afternoon a budget that is suggesting that we're going to put £600 million of additional funding next year directly into the NHS, and you're not going to be supporting that. So, don't you come running to me, telling me that we should be putting more money into the NHS and trying to cut waiting lists, when you're not going to vote for it. I really think that you need to think very seriously about that. 

And on top of that, I think that it is important to recognise—. I'm quite happy; part of our job is to hold health boards to account. That is what the health Secretary does week after week, month after month. And yes, I think it's absolutely legitimate to ask how is it that some consultants do two operations a day and some do six. I think that's a fair question to ask. We need more transparency on who is doing what, how effective they are, and managers have a role in that. They have a role in making sure that the theatres that we have are used to capacity, making sure that people turn up on time and deliver on time for the people of this country who are waiting too long. Yes, let's hold them to account, but we need to make sure that we provide that funding. What we've said, and what the Cabinet Secretary for health has said, is that you will get that £50 million extra funding to bring the waiting lists down, but if you don't, you're not getting it. That's fair enough.

Llywydd, as per usual, there's zero accountability from this First Minister and this Welsh Government—a Government who, quite frankly, should be ashamed of their record on the NHS. And let me remind the Senedd and the First Minister that, last month, Wales's latest health statistics were released, and they were truly shocking. Welsh NHS waiting lists haven't just hit record highs, they've now hit record highs for 10 consecutive months. That is truly shocking.

Patient pathways have now reached over 800,000; two-year waits, which you as health Minister promised to eliminate in 2023 and 2024, have increased to almost 25,000, yet in England, this figure is 151, despite England's population being around 20 times higher than ours. And it's a fact that, under successive Welsh Labour Governments, there has been a reduction in NHS beds of over 4,000. So, whether you or the Cabinet Secretary accept it or not, there simply aren't enough beds to cope with demand.

This really is a matter of life and death, because people are dying unnecessarily the length and breadth of Wales, families are losing loved ones prematurely, and NHS staff morale is plummeting. Under Labour, the Welsh NHS is clearly broken. First Minister, you've previously outlined your commitment to reduce the number of patients waiting more than two years to 8,000 by the spring; do you stand by that promise?

I think it's really important, first, to recognise how much is being done by the NHS day in, day out. There are 2 million contacts every month in a population of 3 million people. That is a huge amount of work being done. One point six million people are seeing their GP on a monthly basis. These are staggering statistics, and the vast majority of people in Wales are getting an excellent service.

You talk about the waiting lists; let me tell you about waiting lists. The diagnostic waits in Wales are going down, the therapies are going down. And do you know what? They don't even count those in England. They're not even counted in the statistics. So, we're being far more honest with the public about what is going on in Wales.

You talk about beds; let me tell you about beds. When your Government was in power in Westminster, we had significantly more beds per head of population than they did in England. And when it comes to staff, we now have more staff than ever before working in the NHS: 12,000 people. If you look at nurses, it's gone up by 14 per cent compared to where it was three years ago. I do think it's important that people recognise that we are investing hugely in our NHS, but, yes, we want to see improved efficiency, and I'm not going to apologise for that.

Leader of Plaid Cymru, Rhun ap Iorwerth.

Diolch, Llywydd. I must say, it is remarkable that the leader of the Conservative group couldn't be here today of all days, choosing a breakfast in America instead. They've clearly given up even on being an opposition party.

First Minister, as every day goes by, institutions of cultural, educational and national importance are being dismantled one by one under this Labour Government—from our health service to the health of our cultural and education institutions. The First Minister will have heard the rally on the steps of the Senedd today. Four hundred jobs on the brink at Cardiff University, the national museum closed, cuts to the arts council, the loss of a national theatre, a world-renowned music department going, the land of song being silenced on Labour's watch. And at the height of an NHS nursing crisis, Labour's message is that it doesn't care about those who want to make a career out of caring for others. 'We now have a very generous budget deal', says the First Minister, but why does she seem to know the price of everything, but the value of nothing?

Wow, there were about 16 questions there, weren't there? [Interruption.] Really? Let me be clear: I do think it is important that we recognise the extreme difficulty, in particular, in Cardiff University; I think it's a very unsettling time for staff and for students at the university. I think Cardiff is one of the jewels in the crown of our higher education sector in Wales, and we need to make sure that it's built on a solid foundation.

I know that the Minister responsible met with the vice-chancellor on Friday and reiterated the fact that the consultation should absolutely be fair, open and genuine, and that support should be made available for those affected. It is imperative that we and they work in social partnership. There are lots of reasons for the difficulties that universities are facing in Wales. It is not unique to Wales. We've got to take account of the fact that there are changes to visa requirements, Brexit, lots of EU structural funds—all of these things have impacted on the university.

When it comes to culture, I think there is a particular technical issue in relation to the national museum. There is an immediate amount of maintenance work that needs to be done, but we are assured that these issues will be addressed over the next few days.

Our institutions are collapsing around this Welsh Government, and all I've heard in relation to higher education over the past few days is a Minister washing her hands of responsibility. Higher education is something that the Welsh Government can influence and control its funding for the future.

We'll be discussing the draft budget later today. If the Welsh budget—and we're told this is a good deal—was such a good deal for Wales, if the promise of Labour's partnership in power was to mean anything, we wouldn't be lurching, would we, from one crisis to another? If we did genuinely have a generous budget, the Welsh Government wouldn't feel the need to spin its budget to the extent that the Senedd Finance Committee concludes it's riddled with empty words. And what a damning indictment of a Labour Government that the same committee, a cross-party committee, accuses it of pivoting away from providing acute cost-of-living support to help people struggling to make ends meet—[Interruption.]

I can't hear the leader of Plaid Cymru. Can I at least hear him? Can we have some silence, please?

Yes, can we have some silence? But I wonder did the First Minister have her finger in her ears when she conducted her listening exercise last summer. She did support an energy price cap; now she doesn't. She did support 1950s women; now she doesn't. She's failed to convince Keir Starmer of the case for fair funding, HS2 consequentials and the devolution of the Crown Estate, and she has the temerity to call me Mr Negative.

My positivity is drawn from knowing that there isn't a problem in Wales for which there isn't a solution. Plaid Cymru wants to put those solutions in practice. Why doesn't the First Minister want to do so?

God—again, it went on for so long I've forgotten what you asked. 

I think you might not have heard everything that was asked, possibly, because there was a lot of noise. There has been a lot of noise this afternoon, so if we can hear the questions and the answers with some silence and respect. 

Thank you very much. There will be a debate—[Interruption.]

I don't like to be heckled from the back benches of any political party. If we can hear both the contributions of the First Minister and those people who've been asked to question. One person has been asked twice today to ask his question. If we can hear the First Minister now in silence, please.

Thanks very much. There is a budget debate later on this afternoon, and I think there'll be ample opportunity for people to make their points there. In broad terms, though, I think it probably is worth emphasising that, this year, there is an extra £1.5 billion on the table, the highest budget increase we've seen since the beginning of devolution, and your party is threatening not to support that. I do think that it's probably worth just making sure that people understand that, if we don't get the budget through, all of those promises you're making to the public, we won't be able to realise them, and certainly you won't. The money will not be there.

I think it's really important that we act responsibly in this. It's shocking, frankly, that year after year Plaid has supported the budget in the past when there were massive cuts being made because of the austerity of the UK Tory Government, and yet this year, when there's an extra £1.5 billion on the table, you're not going to support it. That looks like blatant politicking to me. The public in Wales will be watching and they'll be recognising that that money will not be available for our schools, for our hospitals, for the people waiting on those waiting lists and the people you claim to be speaking up for.

People are watching this Welsh Government very carefully, and this First Minister can insult or patronise me as much as she likes, but government by patronisation is not a good look by a First Minister whose sense of entitlement to govern seems to be becoming clearer week after week.

The First Minister said in December that we now have a Labour Government in Westminster that respects Wales and respects devolution. Last week, the Cabinet Secretary for finance conceded that some work needs to be done to look at the cash Wales gets as a result of England-only spending by the UK Treasury. My colleague Adam Price was quite right in saying that we're looking at data a quarter of a century old when we calculate Wales's share.

We on the Plaid Cymru benches believe that a UK Government that respects Wales would right this wrong without a moment's delay. Back in September, the First Minister told us that Keir Starmer and Rachel Reeves were in listening mode when it comes to reviewing the Barnett formula, and that she would, and I quote,

‘see how far we get’.

It is now February, so can the First Minister tell us how far they've got, or do Keir Starmer and Rachel Reeves have their fingers in their ears too?

We are in constant discussion with the UK Government on this, but I think they are more likely to listen to a government that is on their side, that understands that there is power in partnership, and that don't want to leave the United Kingdom, because that is the priority of your party. You believe in independence. You can't keep on asking them for additional money all the time when actually your goal is independence. We know how that would crush public services in our country.

The south Wales compound semiconductor and digital sectors form part of the Welsh Government's key growth areas, and we've invested in and championed the industries for more than a decade, working with Newport County Council and Cardiff capital region to create highly skilled, long-term jobs.

Thank you for that initial answer, First Minister. These are exciting times for the high-tech sector and particularly the semiconductor industry in Newport, for example the recent £51 million investment by Vishay into Newport Wafer Fab, supported by £5 million from the Welsh Government, and the wider cluster including KLA, another sizeable employer a few miles away close to the Coldra. In fact, there are 14 semiconductor businesses in a 30-mile radius of the city and a number of higher education institutions within close proximity to Newport, giving access to thousands of technology and engineering students.

Any meaningful industrial strategy by UK Government will need to be underpinned by the semiconductor industry. We can be at the forefront of that in Newport. The city council leader, Dimitri Batrouni, has an exciting vision for the city and wants to establish it as Wales's first data city. The work and plans taken forward by SAE Renewables and others at Uskmouth Sustainable Energy Park will also be critical to delivering power for that vision. They plan to utilise the existing infrastructure, land and grid connection, and turn it into one of the largest battery storage sites in the UK. 

First Minister, how can the Welsh Government work with the council, the private sector and UK Government Ministers so that we can deliver this vision and the highly skilled job opportunities that will come with it?

Thanks very much. I very much welcome the vision of Dimitri who is leading on the city council, and I do think that the centrepiece of this is that compound semiconductor cluster that exists, which is unique—it truly is unique. And the number of companies involved in this very, very specialised area is something that I know is recognised globally. For that reason, the catapult centre was based here in south-east Wales and it's one of the reasons why this was chosen as an investment zone area. 

I think it's probably worth remembering that every one of us carries around a mobile phone and within that mobile phone, across the whole world, you're carrying a little tiny piece of Wales with you. It is something that is not recognised and it's something that we really need to crow about. And certainly, when it comes to future developments, this is something that we're committed to. We're committed to supporting in terms of the planning and regulatory framework, and we do hope that this is going to result in further research, innovation and skills development that will attract further private investment to Uskmouth, which we hope will benefit the wider economy.

First Minister, two years ago a bid was made to the UK Government to create a free port in Newport, working with neighbouring local authorities to boost the economic prospects of the region and specifically Newport in order to promote the compound semiconductor sector. Whilst the bid was ultimately unsuccessful, I'd like to know what the legacy of this bid has actually been and have all the opportunities identified in the original bid been developed, to see a high-tech sector being developed in Newport, and been exhausted so far, or are there any prospects for us developing it further? Thank you. 

Thanks very much. We were successful in getting two free ports so I think we'll chalk that up as a win, but it was a shame that Newport failed to reach their goal in that sense, but there is so much to celebrate when it comes to Newport. That focus on this very high-tech cluster is something that has been recognised. That means more money will be coming in and, certainly, I think some of the developments around data centres, around the need to power the data centres—there are huge opportunities. And I do hope that when the investment summit comes to Wales later in the year this will be an area where there will be focus as well.

Newport has worked with a range of partners across the capital region, making the case for further investment in the compound semiconductor cluster, as John Griffiths set out, and it underpins the case for an investment zone. There is a clear interest in the high-tech jobs that Newport, Cardiff and the wider region could benefit from, especially now that the First Minister has approved the Cardiff parkway proposal, and I warmly welcome the First Minister's decision. Rolls-Royce, in fact, moved to the current location in St Mellons, next to my constituency neighbour Jayne Bryant, on the basis of the parkway proposal and the potential for further growth.

Can the First Minister set out how she expects to promote current success stories and the potential for future growth and jobs in high-tech sectors in Wales, whether that is the compound semiconductor cluster, life sciences, insurtech, advanced manufacturing, or more? How will she do that in the international investment summit for Wales that she is convening later this year?

Well, thanks very much. I do think this is an exciting time, and I'm very keen to make sure that we put a spotlight on our nation and demonstrate the very best we have to offer, that we use some of the companies that have already invested here to make the case for investing in Wales, but also to make sure we attract those international investors to our nation.

We will be focusing on certain key sectors where we think we punch above our weight, and where we'd like to see further investment, and you have mentioned some of those, like compound semiconductors and life sciences and other areas. So, we're trying to make sure we keep it focused. Things are moving on in that sense, and we are making efforts to make sure that that spotlight and that money comes into Wales and, crucially, develops the kinds of quality jobs that we need in our nation.

Ensuring good access to high-quality primary care services across Wales is a priority for this Government. Our recent investment of £52.1 million in GP services across Wales underscores this commitment.

Thank you for that response, First Minister.

A number of us have raised concerns in the Senedd about a particular issue in South Wales East. The private company eHarleyStreet has held the contracts for a number of GP Valleys surgeries. Some doctors haven't been paid and patients have found it almost impossible to get appointments. Last week we learnt that Brynmawr was being handed back to the health board, but I understand that the remaining practices are only being monitored. Now, I've already raised concerns about clinical governance in these surgeries. I've spoken to a doctor who worked in one of the surgeries as a locum, who said that patients were presenting with five or six different problems, because they'd been waiting so long to get an appointment and they didn't know when their next would be, and the doctor felt worried that, because of the extra pressure on them, because they were running so late, they could make a mistake, and they told me they didn't feel safe. Surely that isn't any way to treat doctors or patients, and yet surgeries, including Bryntirion in Bargoed, Tredegar and Aberbeeg are only being monitored. Are you satisfied that the situation is safe in those surgeries for patients and for doctors?

Well, thanks very much. I am pleased that the partners of Brynmawr Medical Practice have agreed with Aneurin Bevan to hand back the contract, and I know staff were informed about that at the end of January. What is happening now is the partnership have agreed to a review, sequentially, of each of the other practices held by the partnerships. They are going to be looking at contractual compliance, making sure that they see stability, and if they're not coming up to scratch, I am sure that the health board will do what is necessary to make sure that provision is there for the local community, as is their responsibility.

First Minister, following on from what my colleague from South Wales East has just said—and of course we welcome the money that you've just announced that's going to go into this area—GPs do play that crucial role, don't they, in bringing down NHS waiting lists, which are out of control, of course, and also in making sure people have access to care without having to attend accident and emergency departments, which are already stretched to the max. Because if people can't attend a GP, they often revert to A&E, making those extortionately long waits that people are experiencing much worse.

The Welsh Government needs to ensure that GPs are accessible to their communities, and we really need that commitment to be a really solid one, because patients need to be seen within a reasonable time. One constituent told me they had to wait two weeks just for a phone call from a doctor. I mean, that's just not okay, and that's happening in a lot of surgeries, not just a one-off. Things, of course, are exacerbated when new builds are going up and don't have the infrastructure to go with them. So, what conversations are you having to ensure that my constituents and the people of Wales do have that timely access to appointments, particularly face-to-face appointments, so that serious health issues aren't missed, and what discussions are you having about GPs potentially working more on weekends just to relieve all those pressures? Thank you.

Thanks very much. Well, as I said, there are 1.6 million GP appointments every month in Wales, which is more than half the population equivalent. The fact is that I'm very pleased that the health Secretary has managed to come to an agreement on the general medical services contract, and there are lots of new things built into that contract. One of the things is an immediate review in order to strengthen compliance with the access standards around the 8 a.m. bottleneck and pre-bookable appointments. So, we know that, actually, the vast majority of surgeries have signed up to this, but there are some that are not complying with that. So, we need to chase those down, and we know who they are, and the fact that they have signed up once again means that there's that ongoing commitment.

But there are other areas that I'm really pleased are in that GMS contract that have been added. So, for example, it will be much easier to access the NHS Wales app when it comes to repeat prescriptions and things, so that will avoid people having to go to the doctor for those times, and there will be a learning disability annual health check. So, there are new things that have been negotiated, and I'm really, really pleased that we've managed to come to the very, I think, productive conclusion when it comes to relationships with the GPs.

The surgery in Brynmawr was handed back voluntarily, and we're told that that was because the eHarleyStreet organisation were not technically in breach of contract, and therefore the health board couldn't proceed with an enforced return of contract. Bryntirion in Bargoed has got worse since eHarleyStreet have taken over, and it's certainly the case that Delyth Jewell and Alun Davies have mentioned previously about staff not being paid and contractors not being paid—that remains the case. There are two things that we need to understand. First of all, as that enhanced monitoring that's taking place will lead to an outcome, will that outcome be satisfactory both to the First Minister and the Cabinet Secretary for health? And when the advice is given on those legal positions of eHarleyStreet, will the First Minister ensure that she and the Cabinet Secretary for health are satisfied that that is actually the case, that they are not able to take those contracts back?

Thanks very much. As I say, there is a determination to review sequentially each of the other practices held by the partnership, and Bryntirion in Bargoed will be one of those. If they're not complying, then obviously there will be questions and the health board will have a responsibility to step in because of breach of contract. So, I know that the Cabinet Secretary for health is keeping a very close eye on this particular situation, and if there are any more developments, I'm sure that the health board will keep you informed.

Following a comprehensive public consultation that received over 250 online responses, we are aiming to publish our 10-year mental health and well-being strategy in April.

Thank you. Well, speaking here in November, I called for a Welsh Government statement by the Minister for Mental Health and Well-being on the inclusion of deaf people in the new mental health strategy for Wales after the all-Wales deaf mental health and well-being group, a group of deaf and hearing professionals and charities, had written to the Minister stating that they were keen to ensure that deaf people in Wales are really and truly part of this.

Wales is the only UK country without a deaf mental health service, yet deaf people are twice as likely to experience a mental health problem as a hearing person. Responding, the Trefnydd said that the Minister will want to respond positively to the group's call, however, writing to the Minister last month, the group stated that they did not receive a reply from her. They may have now; I don't know. What update can you therefore provide or action will you take to ensure that the Welsh Government has further discussions with the group and the Royal Colleges of Psychiatrists, with whom they're working closely?

Thanks very much. Well, first of all, can I emphasise how seriously we take mental health issues in Wales? We are dead serious about this. We spend more on mental health than any other condition within our health service. It is money that is ringfenced. We've introduced the '111 press 2' phone line, and there is continued improvement in terms of performance, with most people referred to local primary mental health services within four weeks. Now that is a long way from where we were when we were coming out of the pandemic. So, huge strides forward when it comes to mental health support.

Specifically for deaf people, though, and I know your interest in this, and I know you’ve been championing this issue for a long time, we've asked the Royal College of Psychiatrists and the NHS Wales Joint Commissioning Committee to undertake a review to improve mental health services for those who are deaf or hard of hearing, and this review will inform the delivery plan, which will be published alongside the strategy.

We are committed to reducing, as far as possible within our devolved competency, accidents in the home and workplace. We are taking actions across several policy areas to improve safety on our roads, workplaces and homes, and are assessing the effectiveness of these steps.

Thank you very much for that. A report was published by the Royal Society for the Prevention of Accidents recently, namely 'Safer Lives, Stronger Nation'. This report analyses the number of accidents across the four nations of the UK and demonstrates clearly that there's been a 42 per cent increase in the number of accidents over the past decade. That includes Wales. Of course, we have to acknowledge the data published last week in terms of the 20 mph policy. We know it's early days, but those data were very encouraging to see.

But, despite this, beyond vehicle accidents, the report paints a stark picture of a marked decline in all nations, and there's a clear increase in the number of people suffering preventable accidents. This comes at a significant cost, of course, to our public services and to the lives of children and adults in Wales, with 1,206 people in Wales dying as a result of accidents in 2022. So, as the places where accidents can happen fall under several ministerial portfolios—you've named a number of areas in response—what steps is the Government taking to ensure a common understanding and expertise across sectors to formulate an effective strategy?

Diolch yn fawr. The key thing to do is to try and prevent accidents, and I'm really pleased to see the results that came out last week—as a result of the introduction of 20 mph, it has, in fact, saved 100 lives in the past year. We've seen a 28 per cent drop in casualties, and we've seen a 26 per cent drop in accidents. That's something that should be celebrated. I think it's something that should be recognised. The fact that, today, there are 100 more people walking round as a result of that strategy is something, I think, that should certainly be noted.

When it comes to other aspects in relation to prevention, I'm really pleased to say that good progress is being made in relation to fracture liaison services, and they've been rolled out across Wales. So, how do you prevent accidents, particularly in an ageing population? Getting in there early. And it's great to see organisations like Care & Repair Cymru, who come in and they set up hand rails. It's quite remarkable the prevention work that they're doing, which I do think is taking quite a lot of pressure off our hospitals. I was delighted to see that my mum had new hand rails put in her house last week, a 92-year-old. These things matter. These things avoid accidents, and so putting a little bit of money, as we do—. It's not a little bit of money, actually—we're giving them about £700,000 a year. It's not a small amount of money. But imagine how much we've saved as a result of those kinds of investments.

Following confirmation of funding in the autumn statement, the Welsh investment zone programme is proceeding at pace to deliver on our economic priority of green growth. 

Thank you for that response, First Minister, and can I join you in welcoming the progress that's taken place with the investment zone in north-east Wales, in Wrexham and Flintshire, and particularly also welcome the historical cross-Government working and the future cross-Government work between UK, Welsh and local government here in Wales? It's welcome and it's needed for north-east Wales. Of course, that particular investment zone will look to create 6,000 jobs and around £1 billion-worth of investment for Wrexham and Flintshire, but there are also more opportunities, First Minister, and I wonder if you'd be willing to support those greater opportunities, because the nature of the investment zone on the border with England—there are opportunities with Merseyside, with Manchester and Cheshire to have more cross-working for economic growth in that part of the UK. So, I wonder if you would support those calls for the setting up of partnerships across England and Wales in north-east Wales with north-west England.

Thanks very much, and I will celebrate with you the fact that we now have that investment zone presence in north Wales and a real opportunity, I think, in terms of releasing up to £160 million-worth of funding, along with the retention of non-domestic rates growth to develop infrastructure, skills and to attract investment.

Look, I think we've got to recognise that all across, in particular, that north-eastern zone, there is a lot of movement cross-border. That is not something we should fight; it's something that we should embrace. I think it's in all of our interests to make sure that we develop and grow together and, certainly, I'm sure that the Minister for north Wales is very keen on making sure that that development continues and we know in relation to things like rail development that we want to see much closer co-operation when it comes to working together to drive productivity, to drive investment into those areas.

Finally, question 8, Jane Dodds.

We provide funding to local authorities to support the childcare and play needs of families with children with additional needs, to help ensure childcare provision is inclusive and accessible, and we provide support for the workforce to develop appropriate skills. Our funding to the childcare consortium Cwlwm includes vital support for the sector on additional learning needs.

Thank you very much for the response.

More children are presenting themselves with additional learning needs at an earlier age, and there are delays in diagnosis that leave many without vital support. Without these early assessments, childcare providers must take full responsibility without the necessary specialist resources to give children the best start in life. During recent visits to childcare settings in my region, I saw at first-hand dedicated staff working tirelessly, stymied by inadequate financial support, staffing ratios, and, most importantly, the long delays in assessments for these very small children.

A major concern is the sharp rise in speech and language difficulties, including more non-verbal children. Despite record demand, access to specialist services is lacking, with children often receiving only half-hour therapy sessions, spread over weeks. This is surely not good enough. And with research showing poor vocabulary at age five increases the risk of illiteracy, mental health issues and unemployment later in life, early intervention, I'm sure we'd all agree, is critical to our children's future. So, will you commit to increasing funding for childcare settings and invest in speech and language therapists so that children receive the support that they need and the diagnosis that they need more quickly? Diolch yn fawr iawn.

Thanks very much. It's been quite remarkable, actually, to see over the last 10 years the substantial changes in the way that children and young people with educational needs are identified and responded to. Currently, there are over 21,000 learners with individual development plans. That's a 124 per cent increase since 2018. So, the demand is constantly increasing. I’m pleased to say that, actually, the amount of money going into this has significantly increased. The additional learning needs/special educational needs provision has increased 55 per cent or over £200 million since 2018. These are vast sums of additional funding. I’m not going to apologise for that. I think we should be really proud. If we don’t put that investment in early, as you suggest, then we’re storing up problems for the future. There has been a significant increase in the number of people recruited to this area. Specifically, when it comes to speech and language therapists, it is a very challenged area across the whole of Wales, but there has been an increase in the number of people training in those areas in the past few years.

I thank the First Minister. 

The next item will be the business statement and announcement and the Trefnydd will be making that statement—Jane Hutt. 

Thank you very much, Llywydd. There is one change to this week's business. Questions to the Senedd Commission tomorrow have been reduced to 10 minutes. Draft business for the next three weeks is set out in the business statement and announcement that is available to Members electronically. 

Trefnydd, I’d like to request a statement from the Cabinet Secretary for Health and Social Care regarding NHS workforce planning and how the Welsh Government are maintaining safe staffing levels on hospital sites across Wales. I’ve been informed that in some cases healthcare assistants have been made responsible for entire hospital wards and that they manage wards on their own. I was also told that healthcare assistants are undertaking more and more administrative work and, therefore, it’s crucial that we have some clarity over the role of healthcare assistants and what they’re expected to do in terms of managing patients. I’m sure you’ll agree with me that it’s vital that staff aren’t overworked and burnt out, and that requires hospitals having sufficient resources and proper management. Therefore, I’d be grateful if we could have a statement outlining how the Welsh Government is ensuring that each hospital has the right level of resource and staff to effectively manage wards so that staff are doing the right job and patients are properly supported.

Thank you very much for your very important question, Paul. 

It is important and it is very clear that NHS Cymru has to have that workforce planning clearly laid out, as you say, for every health board and for the delivery. Of course, that informs the training patterns as well and recruitment. I think it’s important just to reflect on the fact that the NHS, in terms of workforce investment, is very robust, very good. Interestingly, in terms of all staff, current full-time equivalents particularly, 10,281—. It’s successfully also recruiting internationally educated nurses from Kerala. But, clearly, in terms of workforce planning for the health boards across Wales, this is what is expected and what’s delivered to the Cabinet Secretary for Health and Social Care.

Trefnydd, I'd like to ask for two oral statements from the Minister for Culture, please. First, on the closure of National Museum Cardiff, it’s imperative that we know exactly what has happened and, even though it seems that it will open its doors again in a few days, I think we do need that assurance that it’s not indicative of a bigger problem and linked to the capital maintenance backlog. I have raised numerous times in terms of is there a risk to the national collections, because that’s what National Museum Wales told the culture committee. I’ve also raised on a number of occasions what happened to Brazil’s national museum in 2018, when 20 million items from the collections were destroyed. So, this is serious and I think we do need those assurances as a Senedd.

Also the second statement is regarding a report leaked to the journalist Will Hayward and detailed in his newsletter, which was a review into the Welsh Government’s culture division. Obviously, I have not seen that report, but one direct quote is this one:

‘The division is consistently described as in chaos and survival mode.’

I would like to request the publication of the report and an oral statement from the Minister. Given what we’re seeing in so many of our cultural institutions, the doors of National Museum Cardiff closed, the sector is in crisis, and I think we need to understand what’s happening with the division as well.

Thank you very much for those questions. I think it is important to clarify, in terms of the National Museum Cardiff—and indeed, the First Minister responded to this—that it needed to close for a few days to address a maintenance issue. And I think there’s going to be further information on that imminently, because Amgueddfa Cymru is looking to resolve this as quickly as possible.

And just also to say, in terms of the wider picture on this, of course, we provided additional funding to ensure Wales’s cultural organisations are protected and preserved, including £1.3 million awarded this financial year for urgent works being carried out in the national museum. And I actually had the responsibility then, in the summer, when that was very much welcomed by the national museum. It is an old building, it needs investment. You only have to look at those prestigious buildings in Cardiff, in our wonderful city’s civic area, to see that investment of this kind needs to take place.

But, also, and in response to your second point, a further £3.7 million has been included in the draft budget for 2025-26, and indeed, funding has been made available to ensure that those organisations that needed particular support have been given extra funding this year in terms of resilience. It was important that those announcements were made in the summer, in this financial year, to help those organisations that need that support.

But I think, also, you raise the question about the national collections. We did provide reassurances about the protection of those national collections, which are, of course, so important to us in terms of our cultural heritage.

I have a number of statements that I’d like to ask for today. Firstly, could we have a statement on how your work as Cabinet Secretary for Social Justice is going regarding the guidance to political parties on candidate diversity? I understand that the UK Government is committed to the provision in the Equality Act 2010 requiring all registered political parties to publish anonymised data relating to the diversity of their candidate selections.

And secondly, please could we have a statement from the Government on bank closures? Last week, we got the news that six more banks were closing in Wales, and one of the branches of Lloyds Bank that is closing is in Whitchurch, in my constituency of Cardiff North. This was the last bank in Whitchurch, and we now only have one bank branch left open in the whole of the Cardiff North constituency. And we know how important these banks are for so many people, particularly older people and vulnerable people.

And finally, we had the really good news yesterday that Wales is going to be the first UK nation to fully adopt Pathfinder, the pioneering family court pilot scheme. This pilot has shown that waits for family court cases have been drastically reduced, and has led to the completion of cases much sooner, because I think we all know that family courts can be a very traumatic experience for both parents and children. Pathfinder tries to resolve problems between parents sooner and places more emphasis on hearing children’s voices. So, please could we have a statement from the Government on what this roll-out will look like across Wales, and what benefits we expect to see as a result of this really good announcement yesterday? Diolch.

Diolch, Julie Morgan. I’m very pleased that you’ve asked the question about diversity inclusion guidance for political parties, because we received 49 responses to the public consultation on the draft guidance. I’m really grateful to all those organisations and individuals who took the time to submit their feedback, and we are working through those responses to the consultation exercise. We’ll publish a summary of the response in due course, and then publish the final guidance as soon as possible, so that it’s available to all political parties well in advance of the next Senedd, and indeed, local government elections.

Now, yes, section 106 of the Equality Act 2010 would, if commenced, provide a statutory basis that would require political parties to collect and publish diversity information on Senedd candidates. And I know, in the Senedd Reform Bill Committee, this was questioned, about when this would be commenced. So, I recently wrote to the UK Government to set out what we were doing in Wales, telling them about our guidance, requesting an update on plans for section 106. And I was pleased to receive a reply from the Minister for Women and Equalities, and she indicated that they are committed to commencing section 106. I think that's important news to share in the Senedd today. I look forward to hearing from them again when there is greater certainty on next steps. So, thank you for enabling me to draw that to the Senedd's attention. And, of course, I will be providing an update on our full guidance, our diversity and inclusion guidance, which, I have to say, has also been welcomed by the Scottish Government. There's a lot of interest in what we're doing in Wales. And I'm sure all political parties will, hopefully, be taking note of that guidance when it comes through, and implementing it.

On bank closures, and this has come up today because banks are closing across Wales, 380 bank branches have closed in Wales since January 2015. It's such a critical loss. I think all of us, across the Senedd, will know of and have these bank closures. And it's the pace of closures that really means that it's very hard for customers. The question was asked about transport to what's left in terms of access to financial services. That's where banking hubs are important. Financial inclusion, of course, is a key priority for the Welsh Government. So, we are looking—. Although financial services aren't devolved—it's a reserved matter—the Cabinet Secretary for Economy, Energy and Planning is engaged, as am I, in looking at the opportunities. We've got seven shared banking hubs open in Wales so far, at Abergele, Morriston, Swansea, Porthcawl, Prestatyn, Welshpool, in addition to Abertillery and Treorchy, and there are more planned.

But we also have opportunities with our credit unions. Of course, we've been very interested in the community bank discussions and proposals that have been coming forward. We also have Smart Money Cymru Community Bank. And a banking in Welsh communities event is going to be held next month, jointly organised by both the Cabinet Secretary for economy and myself, and our officials, and this is going to be at the Principality offices in central Cardiff. So, I hope I can feed back on that event, and the Cabinet Secretary for economy.

Also, I think it's very important for the whole Senedd to know about the Pathfinder pilot, which I believe you've visited. I visited myself, with Mick Antoniw, when he was Counsel General. It is a pilot. It's when families apply to the family court, when they're in dispute over where and with whom a child should live and how much contact should occur. There's been a pilot with the Ministry of Justice, with the co-operation of Cafcass Cymru, HM Courts and Tribunals Service, the judiciary, and other stakeholders, implementing this new approach to private law work, known as the Pathfinder project. It's been enormously successful, and the Ministry of Justice has now agreed to roll out the new approach across the rest of Wales, from 3 March. All areas of Wales will be working under Pathfinder. The success of that pilot in north Wales has led to this extension across Wales, and Cafcass Cymru has secured funding from the Ministry of Justice to roll out Pathfinder across all of Wales, until March 2026. Data published shows that average case length since the pilot started has reduced by 29 weeks to 18 weeks in north Wales. I have, Llywydd, with your forbearance, wanted to just give a bit more information on Pathfinder, but perhaps we could say something more on another occasion, because it is a very good outcome from that pilot.

Thank you. Just to say, I have 25 per cent of the Senedd's total numbers wishing to take part in this statement today. We will need to inject some pace now, to questions and answers, please, if we're going to get anywhere near that 25 per cent. James Evans.

Diolch, Llywydd. Will the Trefnydd allocate time for a Government statement addressing the engagement process conducted by Mid and West Wales Fire and Rescue Service concerning their community risk management plan 2040? Given that there are significant proposed changes, such as the introduction of zoning response models, which involves redistributing resources and potentially altering the operation of local fire stations, there is concern that the current consultation process may not adequately capture all the perspectives of all the communities that have been affected. This is going to have a huge impact on my constituency and staff employed by Mid and West Wales Fire and Rescue Service. I know this sits within your brief, Trefnydd, so I’d be very interested if we could have a response from you in Government time about how the Government is going to ensure that all the communities across my constituency have access to those fire and rescue services when they need them.

Thank you very much for that question, James Evans. The Cabinet Secretary for Housing and Local Government is going to do a written statement on this. On the fire service, it’s not just this report, but in terms of reports coming through. Clearly, she has been meeting with fire and rescue authority chairs and chief officers to discuss how they address the reports’ findings. She’s made very clear her expectation about action that needs to be taken to make sure that there is that support provided by the all-important fire and rescue services—I would say across Wales, but for you, of course, responding particularly to Mid and West Wales Fire and Rescue Service.

I’d like a statement, please, to set out how the Government is supporting local authorities to keep open sites of historic value. Llancaiach Fawr has been closed since the beginning of the year. For anyone who hasn’t visited, it is a real gem; it’s a manor house where visitors, especially children, were taken back in time to the civil war. But the council closed the site in December, and its doors have remained shut against communities that sent their children there on school trips and where local groups congregated for coffee mornings and fetes and carol concerts. Plaid Cymru councillors have discovered through a freedom of information request that all but two of the staff who worked in the historic manor house are facing redundancy. So, all those years of experience could be discarded. This is surely no way to treat people who brought that little bit of magic into so many of our lives. This is a site of national significance, surely it deserves to get national support. So, could a statement set out urgently what could be done to save those jobs and this local treasure?

Diolch yn fawr, Delyth Jewell. Clearly, this is a really important site and place to visit. I’m sure many of us have visited Llancaiach Fawr and recognise how difficult it has been. Of course, this has been brought before us on earlier occasions when difficult decisions were being made by the council. Blackwood Miners’ Institute, of course, has now opened as a result of those decisions. Clearly, it is important that you’ve brought this to our attention today, but it is for the local authority to address this issue.

Please could I have two statements? The first is regarding the Oscar Mayer dispute and the terrible treatment of its employees, downgrading their jobs so they are worth less, with 35 now having their contracts ended. The Cabinet Secretary for Transport and North Wales was due to meet with the employer on 9 January. Could I have an update on the outcome?

The second is regarding the issuing of blue badges for those with lifetime conditions, some extremely complex. They have to fully reapply for a blue badge every three years, and it’s time consuming, with many barriers, making it distressing. It really is a social justice and equality issue. Last week, I heard a paralysed wheelchair user almost lost her blue badge, and the ‘not for reassessment’ option needs to be used more consistently for those with a lifelong diagnosis. Photos could be updated every three years, just like driving licences or passports. Would you please meet with me and campaigners to hear for yourself the real difficulties that they face due to the three-yearly renewal process, in order to inform your discussions with the Cabinet Secretary for transport going forward?

Thank you very much for your very important questions.

In terms of Oscar Mayer, thank you for raising this. This is something that the Cabinet Secretary for Economy, Energy and Planning and the Cabinet Secretary for Transport and North Wales have been engaged in, writing to Oscar Mayer to express concerns, inviting them to discuss their work forward proposals with us, back last year. It’s now been agreed that the Cabinet Secretary for Transport and North Wales would meet the chief executive officer, but I understand the date of that meeting has yet to be agreed. It is really important that we look to the opportunities with the UK Government’s Employment Rights Bill, which will modernise employment rights and strengthen their enforcement, because fire and rehire has no place in a modern, civilised labour market, and is against our values of fair work and social partnership. And it's only the UK Government that has that legislative ability to prevent the adoption of fire and rehire. But we will, obviously, hear from that forthcoming meeting.

You've raised the question about blue badges, and, of course, providing parking concessions to disabled people is particularly important, enabling them to access work, education, healthcare and essential services. It's a devolved responsibility, but it's local authorities who are legally responsible for the day-to-day administration and enforcement of the scheme in Wales. As you will know, the blue badge scheme has been reviewed several times—several reviews looking at various aspects to the programme, including eligibility, administration and enforcement. Changes have been made in conjunction with stakeholders and healthcare professions and, of course, we're very committed to making sure that, particularly, I would say, disabled people with the greatest barriers to their mobility can access on-street parking concessions when seeking access to community-based facilities. 

Trefnydd, I would like to request a joint statement from the Cabinet Secretary for Health and Social Care and the Cabinet Secretary for Economy, Energy and Planning on the economic impacts of Wales's record-breaking waiting lists. Long-term health issues account for over a quarter of all economically inactive individuals in Wales, with lengthy waiting lists clearly contributing to the crisis. Over 20,000 patient pathways are taking over two years for treatment, and over 170,000 patient pathways are taking over one year. One of these is a constituent of mine, who has recently had to leave her job while awaiting hip-replacement surgery, already on top of having to fork out to go abroad to have her other hip replaced due to the waits here in Wales. This is simply unacceptable. So, for her sake, for the thousands of others facing an average wait of over a year for a hip replacement and for the wider impact on the Welsh economy, I think that urgent action is needed. Therefore, I would appreciate a joint statement from the two Cabinet Secretaries outlining the negative impact of waiting lists on the Welsh economy. Diolch.

Well, I do hope that we might see some support this afternoon in the draft budget for £600 million more for health—£600 million more in order to help our health boards, help our hardworking staff in the NHS to deliver the health service that would mean that people haven't got those long waits. And, of course, it does affect the rest of your life in terms of work. But let's also just remember that 50-day winter challenge, which the health boards are now responding to, that extra £19 million to support the challenge and ensure that we learn the best way to support hospital discharge, making sure, therefore, that hospitals are available for that all-important treatment. But, I have to say that some of the biggest reductions that have been achieved already in waits for joint assessment and in starts for ablement care packages are already evident.

I'd like a statement, please, on what the Welsh Government is doing specifically to address the impact of the closure of high street banks in our communities. Last week, Lloyds Banking Group announced that they were closing their branch in Pontardawe. It's the last bank in the whole of the Swansea valley. I'm holding a public meeting this week so that people can have their say before I meet with Lloyds and appeal Link's cash access assessment, which was made from a desk in Yorkshire and bears no relation to reality. I've had a message just now saying that a lady was in the bank and it was heaving. 'There were eight people queuing in front of me; the queue was to the door.' So, there is a demand. 

Trefnydd, we've had no update either—you referenced it just now—on the Welsh Government's programme for government commitment for a community bank since July, when those plans stalled. It's been revealed in budget scrutiny that no budget has been allocated to support further activity directly to support the creation of a community bank. So, I'd like the Senedd to be updated specifically on that. Has that commitment now been abandoned?

You talked about credit unions in your response to Julie Morgan. Well, do you know that, on the same day that we heard about the bank closure in the Swansea valley, a nearby branch of the local credit union was forced to shut in Port Talbot because of the increase in national insurance contributions. We need to hear what the Welsh Government's strategy is to help safeguard essential financial community services.

Thank you for that important question, following on from questions from Julie Morgan and others today about the closure of banks. I won't repeat what I said about the numbers that have closed, about the fact that we are—. They respond to say they're opening these shared banking hubs across Wales, but not in every community, and also that we have Link and the new service, Cash at the Till, enabling customers to access cash from retailers without making a purchase, and I've got this banking in Welsh communities event. It is important that we look at credit unions, and we give £0.5 million a year to credit unions to support 13 community-based projects. That does include new credit union hubs. When I heard about the closure of that particular credit union, I asked for feedback as to what was happening, what was the reason. I think there are reasons relating to the particular property, and we can look at that in terms of access to services in the area. But funding is in place until March 2026 for our credit unions.

Also, I have to say, again, I would like to discuss and meet with that credit union to follow this up, because £637,000 of capital support has been given to credit unions since 2021, and many of them are developing mobile solutions, outreach and working with other websites and lenders. And, yes, we do need to look at all of those opportunities, including, indeed, how we can move forward in looking at community bank solutions as well.

We all get lots of complaints about potholes from both cyclists and car drivers, and the damage they cause on our roads. So, I was really interested to read about a breakthrough from research at Swansea University about a new self-healing bitumen, mixed with plants soaked in recycled oils, which heals the cracks on the roads caused by heavy vehicles so they never turn into very-expensive-to-fix potholes. This could save millions of pounds for local authorities. I wondered if we could have a statement from the Cabinet Secretary for transport on the conversations he's had with Dr Norambuena-Contreras, who is leading that research, to understand how quickly we can apply this Welsh research to making potholes a thing of the past.

Thank you very much, Jenny Rathbone, for bringing that to our attention, and, of course, it will be brought to the attention of the Cabinet Secretary for Transport and North Wales, because this is where we need to use that skill and innovation from our universities to make sure that we can, as the draft budget includes funding to enable local authorities to actually extend their borrowing to fill many of those potholes, make sure they're not just filled but are secured.

Good afternoon, Trefnydd. I'd like to request a statement from the Cabinet Secretary for health regarding the Bracken Trust in Llandrindod Wells. This is a unique, vital cancer support service. It's been going for 30 years and it's facing a shortfall in funding. It's the only independent cancer centre of its kind in Wales. It supports over 300 people affected by cancer every year, including patients and families, both with practical support, emotional support and with bereavement counselling as well. Without that urgent intervention, this essential service could start making redundancies. So, given the unique role of the Bracken Trust in Llandrindod Wells, could I ask the Cabinet Secretary what steps the Welsh Government will take to sustain this absolutely essential service? Diolch yn fawr iawn.

Diolch yn fawr, Jane Dodds. It sounds like a fantastic independent cancer charity, the Bracken Trust, obviously providing vital cancer services around the year. It is independent. I'm not aware—I haven't been able to find—that there is present Welsh Government funding for that. I don't think they have funded it in the past; it must've been funded, presumably, by the local authority, health board, trusts and fundraising donations. But I will take this back to the Cabinet Secretary for Health and Social Care so that we can look at this in terms of their current situation. Of course, this is a situation where they may also be able to get support via the voluntary sector, third sector routes and infrastructure routes as well. So, I will liaise on those questions.

Trefnydd, I'd like to ask for a statement from the Welsh Government on the impact on charity-run independent schools that have had their business rates relief cut, and the impacts on schools like the Haberdashers' Monmouth School in Monmouth, which has already had to look at redundancies because of Labour's VAT raid on private schools, and now they are facing a triple whammy with NI rises and business rate rises.

Also, if I may, Trefnydd, I know that many people in my region would like to hear from the Cabinet Secretary for transport in the form of a statement about what we're doing under this new First Minister to open up Wales for business in terms of new infrastructure. The decision not to build the M4 relief road back in 2019 was a serious misstep, and it puts immediate closed-for-business signs up to inward investors. And still today, Wales has bags of unrealised economic potential because of that mistake. So, I'd like to see an update on what this Government now thinks of the relief road. Thank you.

I thank Laura Anne Jones for her questions. I have, obviously, responded already to VAT on fees for private independent schools, and, indeed, these are—you know, business rates in terms of charitable relief—policies that we support in the Welsh Labour Government.

And it is important, also, in terms of your second point, that the work that's been done on an alternative to the M4 relief road, and it was very much supported that there should be an alternative to the M4 relief road, has been taken forward as a result of the Burns inquiry. But I'm sure that an update on that could be available, and, indeed, of course, you have questions to the Cabinet Secretary for transport tomorrow, so that may be an opportunity to ask that question.

And finally, Luke Fletcher.

Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd. The Government will be aware that the Crown Estate Bill is currently progressing through the UK Parliament and is currently at the Committee Stage. Now, the Bill committee has made a call for evidence, so could I ask for a statement clarifying whether or not the Welsh Government will be submitting evidence in support of the amendment tabled by Plaid Cymru MP, Llinos Medi, calling for its devolution? Now, the Government has been supportive of it. Evidence can be submitted in favour of amendments, so it's time the Government puts its money where its mouth is.

Thank you, Luke Fletcher. As you know, we have expressed our support for the devolution of the Crown Estate and, obviously, now, it is progressing through Parliament in that way.

I thank the Trefnydd.

Item 3 today is a statement by the Cabinet Secretary for Economy, Energy and Planning on Ynni Cymru and support for the community energy sector in Wales. I call on the Cabinet Secretary, Rebecca Evans.

Diolch. This Welsh Labour Government under Eluned Morgan's leadership is crystal clear that we are committed to putting Welsh communities in the driving seat of our energy future, and today I'd like to tell you exactly how we are delivering on that promise. So, let me tell you something about our new First Minister: she doesn't waste time; within just one month of taking office, she backed our ambitious £10 million smart local energy scheme. That's the kind of swift, decisive action that Wales needs, not endless consultations, not more talking shops—real investment, real fast, for real communities. The last few months alone have shown the vital need for radical changes to our energy system if we are to tackle the huge challenges that we face. From climate change to rising energy prices and energy security, we cannot and must not carry on with the status quo, leaving future generations to face sky-high bills and energy insecurity.

Families in Wales are paying the price for Tory failure on energy bills, and household budgets have been hit harder by the energy crisis than any major advanced country. This is why this Welsh Labour Government believes that community energy has an important part to play in transforming Wales into a renewable energy powerhouse. As the First Minister has noted, we have the accident of geography to thank for the opportunity of a generation, to once again make use of the natural gifts we have as a nation, but to do so in a way that supports a just transition.

Central to community energy are people themselves. This includes empowering people to become renewable energy owners, with the ability to generate, store and control their own clean energy. We have shown our commitment to the community energy sector, through funding Community Energy Wales and the Welsh Government energy service to ensure community energy groups can take renewables from concept stage through to completion. We now have a thriving sector with excellent examples of community energy projects across Wales.

Ynni Cymru is a key facilitator in growing the community energy sector and in ensuring that the benefits of energy generation are retained locally, promoting community ownership of integrated renewable energy as a central strategy in the just transition to a low-carbon economy. Ynni Cymru is leading the way in supporting organisations across Wales to develop smart local energy systems. It supports social enterprises, public sector bodies, and small to medium-sized enterprises, reflecting its place-based and collaborative approach.

Just a month following the appointment of Eluned Morgan as First Minister, this Welsh Labour Government launched Ynni Cymru’s £10 million smart local energy system grant scheme. We had over 100 applications, and the scheme awarded funding to 32 projects, over half of which involve community groups. These organisations are currently busy delivering their projects, many of which will be completed by the end of this quarter. The projects supported are spread right across Wales, with 10 in the north, six in mid Wales, seven in the south-west and the remaining nine projects in the south-east of Wales.

In north Wales, Holywell Town Football Club has been awarded funding to install smart LED lighting, air-source heat pumps, solar panels, and battery storage. All this new technology will be supported by a smart building management system, which, together, is expected to deliver an 80 per cent reduction in annual energy costs. These cost savings will be reinvested into grass-roots sports in the area, providing more opportunities for children and young people to get involved and have fun with their friends.

In the south-east, the community energy organisation Ynni Teg has been awarded just over £330,000 to deliver the Gwyrdd Bangla community energy project. This project aims to install approximately 200 kW of solar photovoltaic generation and 300 kWh of battery storage across a range of community mosques. Aberporth village hall in Ceredigion has been awarded funding to install solar panels, battery storage and electric vehicle points, which will help the hall meet 30 per cent of its energy needs and deliver over 3 tonnes of annual carbon savings. It will also add to the electric vehicle charging infrastructure rural Wales needs to decarbonise.

There is, of course, more that we can do to support communities to embrace innovation as we transition to a net-zero future. I am therefore pleased that, in the next financial year, another £10 million has been allocated to Ynni Cymru to support organisations to develop smart local energy systems. We will hold a webinar in April for potential applicants. I look forward to seeing the outcomes of these projects and determining how the Welsh Labour Government can further support innovation around smart local energy systems over the coming years.

We have so many fantastic examples of how community energy is innovating and creating jobs and growth opportunities. In north Wales, we have the tidal stream sector investing to use the power of the tide to generate baseload capacity within a renewable-based system. I am pleased to announce that the Welsh Government has continued its long-term support to delivering and developing Wales’s community energy sector by taking an equity stake in Menter Môn Morlais. Supporting their growth ambitions to scale up the capacity at the site continues to deliver on our programme for government commitment to support investment to make Wales a world centre for emerging tidal technologies.

With the UK Government setting up Great British Energy, we will continue working collaboratively to build on the strong foundations of support that we already have here in Wales. In particular, we will be continuing our conversations around Great British Energy’s local power plan to explore opportunities that could increase the investment coming into Wales.

As we move into the next financial year, we will be reflecting on how Wales can stay at the cutting edge of developing smart local energy, and we will be reviewing the future needs for support to local and community energy organisations to ensure that Wales remains at the forefront of the energy transition.

I welcome the opportunity to respond to today's statement on Ynni Cymru and the support for the community energy sector in Wales. While the aims of supporting community-owned renewable energy are commendable, the Welsh Government's approach so far falls short of delivering the transformative change that communities across Wales so urgently need.

The establishment of Ynni Cymru and the recent £10 million investment in smart local energy systems is a positive step, but with funding already allocated and projects expected to be completed by March of 2025, the key question remains: how will the Welsh Government ensure long-term structural benefits beyond this initial round? A short-term injection of funding without addressing things such as grid capacity constraints, planning barriers and access to wider finance will not deliver the scale of change needed to decarbonise Wales's energy system.

We continue to hear about the ambition to make Wales a renewable energy powerhouse. Indeed, I agree. That's why I harp on about floating offshore wind in the Celtic sea. Yet communities still face significant hurdles when trying to develop local energy projects. Grid access remains one of the biggest barriers, with projects stalled due to high connection costs and lengthy delays. If the Government is serious about empowering communities, it must push for fundamental reform to allow locally generated renewable energy to be used more effectively within Wales.

At the same time, fuel poverty remains a pressing issue, with nearly half of Welsh households struggling with energy costs. So, the Labour Government cut the winter fuel allowance during one of the coldest winters. And the promise of £300 off your energy bills—remember that from the general election campaign—thanks to GB Energy? Well, that's completely fictitious. The Cabinet Secretary may wish to look a little closer to home when throwing criticism from the frontbench.

Investment in community energy is welcome, but much like everything else about this Government, there is little evidence of a clear strategy linking these projects to immediate financial relief for struggling households. The benefits of renewable energy must be felt directly by those who need it most, not just in the long term, but now too.

Private renewable energy projects also face unnecessary obstacles. Farmers and small landowners who want to develop hydro and solar projects are met with excessive costs and bureaucracy, and the decision to remove business rate relief from small-scale hydro schemes only adds to these challenges. If Wales is truly to harness its renewable energy potential, we need to support both community and private initiatives. So, will the Welsh Government or reconsider its stance on business rate relief and commit to removing barriers for small-scale renewable energy projects?

Despite frequent discussions about keeping the benefits of energy generation within Wales, there is still no clear legislative framework to make it a reality. Community Energy Wales has called for a community energy Act to guarantee local benefits from energy projects, but the Government has yet to take meaningful action and remains sat on its hands.

If Wales is to remain at the forefront of the energy transition, stronger legal protections and market reforms may well be needed to ensure community benefit. Nothing grates a community more than seeing pylons or underground cables taking electrons generated within their community out of their community and them seeing no benefit in their day-to-day bills.

To conclude, Dirprwy Lywydd, while the Welsh Government's latest funding commitment is welcome, it does not address the systemic issues preventing Wales from achieving true energy sovereignty. Without grid reform, financial accessibility and a clear link between renewable energy and tackling fuel poverty, we risk falling further behind. It's time for bold action, which is in short supply from this Government, who've had 25 years to deliver something meaningful, yet have let the people of Wales down. Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd.

That was an awfully glum response to what is a really good news statement today in relation to the support the Welsh Government is giving to community energy projects across Wales. Today I've been able to set out that, even in this financial year, we've been able to find £10 million to support projects that are really genuinely the length and breadth of Wales. I know that we've already shared many of them with colleagues throughout the Senedd through correspondence, but I'd be happy to share that information again so that colleagues can go and see for themselves this great work that has been taking place in terms of community energy projects.

The Member asked what we're going to do next—one-off funding and so on. Well, in my statement today I announced that there'll be a further £10 million for this work in the next financial year as well. We had huge interest in this first year of support. We had over 100 projects come forward. We were able to support 32 of them. So, we know in the next financial year that there will also be great demand for the projects as well.

There was lots of discussion about the grid in the contribution from the opposition spokesperson, and I completely agree with him about the challenges that we face in respect of the grid. But actually, one of the really beneficial things about our support for Ynni Cymru and for locally generated energy is that these schemes actually take pressure off the grid, which is another reason for us to be supporting them. Many of them include things such as battery storage, for example, which I think again is a really good way for many of these organisations and small businesses to be able to manage their own energy costs and reduce those energy costs, becoming more sustainable in the long term. 

It is important that we have been able to support a range of projects. We've been able to support a number of community energy projects, but also a number of community organisations, such as village halls and sports clubs, for example, to be able to deliver benefits within their local community. And, of course, we've been able to support small and medium-sized enterprises through this support. And again, I know that all of those sectors will be looking to our next £10 million to see what further support we'll be able to offer them when we provide our webinair in April, which will set out how to apply for the next round of support. 

We've got a really clear, I think, approach to local benefits and local ownership and we really strongly do support local renewable energy projects. We look to them to be developed by wholly Wales-based organisations, including community groups who provide proportionate benefit to the host community or to Wales as a whole. Locally owned generation provides a really strong opportunity to retain that economic value here in Wales, and it does contribute to our prosperity.

Colleagues will be familiar with our 'Local ownership of energy generation in Wales' policy statement, which was published in 2020, and that sits alongside our targets for locally owned generation. That policy, of course, is being given effect through our 'Planning Policy Wales' document, recognising that there are huge opportunities in these projects to achieve local benefit through renewable energy also.

It would be remiss of me not to draw attention, I think, to the announcement today that I included in my statement again about the support that we are providing for the Menter Môn Morlais project. Again, I think that is really exciting and potentially could be a game changer, again putting us right at the forefront. What we're offering in that particular project is world leading, and I think that should be celebrated by all colleagues.  

Thank you very much, Cabinet Secretary, for your statement today. 

Across parties, we've been clear that this is a critical area that we cannot afford to drop the ball on, so it's good to see some of this agenda progress. There are several key areas I want to dig into a bit more, firstly the interplay between Ynni Cymru, Trydan Gwyrdd Cymru and GB Energy. I know I've raised my concerns on this in the past, but we really need to understand how these different energy bodies will work together. There's a real risk here that we'll see duplication of efforts, perhaps even diverging priorities somewhere down the line.

What we need is a clarification on roles. Can you offer that clarification today? Can you clarify the distinct roles of Ynni Cymru, Trydan Gwyrdd Cymru and GB Energy in Wales? How will the Welsh Government ensure that GB Energy does not duplicate or undermine the work of existing Welsh energy bodies, and what discussions has the Welsh Government had with the UK Government to define how GB Energy will interact with existing Welsh energy initiatives? Given that GB Energy is a UK Government initiative, it is crucial that Wales's interests are properly considered.

Secondly, financing for community energy projects. One of the biggest concerns with community energy projects in Wales is access to finance. Ynni Cymru's role here will be important. What impact will GB Energy have on the financing available for community energy projects in Wales? Given that Ynni Cymru only has a £10 million capital budget for 2024-25, is that sufficient to achieve its goals? Because as things stand, £10 million right now is not enough to support the full pipeline of community energy projects across Wales. 

Finally, on pipeline and long-term vision for community energy, looking beyond the immediate term it's essential that we have a clear road map for community energy in Wales. Community energy projects are crucial for localising energy production, reducing energy bills and contributing to our climate goals. How many community energy projects does the Welsh Government expect to see developed during this Senedd term? Will the Welsh Government introduce a clear road map for the expansion of community energy in Wales? And what reforms will the Welsh Government introduce to ensure that the planning system actually facilitates rather than hinders the development of community energy projects? Now, I appreciate there are a lot of questions there, but there are also a lot of challenges. But as I said at the beginning of my contribution, I'm broadly supportive of seeing this agenda progressing in a positive way.

Well, I'm really grateful for the questions and also for the support for the direction in relation to renewable energy in Wales. It is true that it is an exciting moment but that we are seeing a range of new organisations and new approaches coming together, and I completely share that concern that these things must be complementary and there shouldn't be a danger of duplication, or even worse, having things fall through gaps between the provisions also.

So, Ynni Cymru is very much focused on the local community energy schemes. These are small-scale schemes. Often the funding is supported by match funding by organisations as well, so that does allow us to pull in further funding to support local renewable energy projects. That's really, really welcome. But then Trydan Gwyrdd Cymru is on a different scale entirely. So, that really is about using our woodland estate to unlock renewable energy projects. So, in the first instance, you would imagine that those would be wind energy projects. We are currently working with the board, or the board is working, to identify those project areas that would be most aligned to delivering renewable energy in Wales. So, you would expect those to be wind energy projects, as I say, in the first instance. But those projects are commercial scale, so it's a very different proposition to that which is provided by Ynni Cymru.

And at the moment, things still are very early days in relation to Great British Energy. So, we'll be talking later on today in Plenary about the establishment of Great British Energy as an organisation, or as an entity, but still much is yet to be done in terms of Great British Energy. We are having really good discussions, both at ministerial level, but also through officials, about how Great British Energy can support our ambitions here in Wales, through Trydan Gwyrdd Cymru, but not exclusively so, to ensure that the investment does come to Wales for these projects. So, I don't have that concern, certainly not at this stage, about duplication, but it is really important that we do make sure that all of the quite-new entities work collaboratively and effectively together.

In relation to the pipeline, as I say we already had significantly more applications for this round of funding than we were able to support, which is a good thing. I think it's always very useful to have capital projects ready to go, should additional funding be made available in-year, so I would be mindful of that as well. But in terms of the pipeline, I think the fact that we do have clear renewable energy targets—and one of them being to meet the equivalent of 100 per cent of our annual energy consumption by renewable sources by 2035, and to keep pace thereafter, but for at least 1.5 GW of that to be locally owned by 2035—does show our commitment to exploring and developing that pipeline of projects. I've no concern that the pipeline is there and it's coming through; what I want to do is be able to support as many of those projects as possible, which is why levering in that match funding, where possible, will be important.

And then on planning, colleagues will be familiar with the consultation that has just recently closed in respect of full-cost recovery for local government in terms of planning application fees, but then also that wider piece of work about the planning profession, and ensuring that we bolster that and that we have the skilled people working in planning who we need. So, in that consultation, we talk about bursaries, apprenticeships and regional hubs of specialist skills and so on, to make sure that we're able to address those planning applications as quickly as possible.

And also, one of the things I'm keen to explore next, then, would be around permitted developments. So, I'm particularly interested in ground-source heat pumps and, you know, the technology has moved on considerably since we first set our policy on that. So, once we move through this consultation on fees and the profession, then that's something else I'd like to tackle after that.

Thank you very much for your statement; it captures the enthusiasm you have for this, which is fantastic. Obviously, the pioneer in all this was Awel Aman Tawe, and I refer you to my financial interests, because without Dan McCallum's energy and enthusiasm, all those seven community projects that pioneered this wouldn't have got off the ground. But I think it's incredibly important that we ensure that everybody knows that they've got to get on with this, otherwise they're always going to be crippled by overly priced gas and fossil fuels.

So, every village needs to follow the example of Aberporth village hall; every grass-roots sports body needs to follow Holywell Town Football Club; every place of worship needs to follow the example of Gwyrdd Bangla. So, how are we going to get every town, village and individual waking up to the fact that we have got to change if we're not going to constantly be having to pay more than we need to by tapping into the community resources we have? I note you're organising a webinar in April, and that's great, but we all know that the poorest community is the one that has the least capacity to seize the moment on these resources, so I wondered what work is being done by local authorities or other community organisations to ensure that everybody knows about this?

I'm really grateful for those questions, and also the ability to take this chance to pay tribute to the people who have really been pioneers and trailblazers in the community energy sector, because I'm sure that they'll be incredibly impressed with the speed at which things are taking off. Through our latest round of funding, we've got some really good examples now happening in Cardiff. So, through Cardiff Council, there will be solar, photovoltaic and battery storage across leisure sites. Cardiff Metropolitan University will be installing solar PV, battery storage and heat pumps, and YnNi Teg will be installing solar PV and battery storage across community buildings as well. We have great examples of things that will be happening through this latest funding round right across Wales.

I think that it is incumbent on those organisations now that will be receiving funding to be able to be evangelical about the support that they've received, and to be case studies then for others within the local community—other organisations—to explore with them how they've been able to slash their energy bills by up to 80 per cent, for example. So, I think that some organisations and businesses will need Welsh Government support to get to that point; others will see it as a sensible investment that they just want to get on with as well. So, I think that there's work to do in sharing that. We do some of that work through the Welsh Government energy service, which offers technical, commercial and procurement support, mostly to local authorities, but also to community energy organisations as well, and that kind of support can stretch from the concept stage right through to financial close and completion, and then it does provide that step by step, almost hand holding, if you like, in terms of being able to access the benefits of locally generated energy.

Related to this, officials are working with the industry to develop a sector deal, which also will seek to address the barriers to community ownership and maximise the benefits that we can retain here in Wales. But I'd encourage colleagues to go out and visit the latest round of projects. I'm sure they'll have a warm welcome, and it will be a chance to see some of this investment in action.

I want to focus on the announcement of the investment in Morlais today. The news of this investment is to be greatly welcomed. From the outset, I've been very supportive of this scheme, not only because of its value in producing green energy and creating jobs locally, but also the fact that this is being developed as a social enterprise where the profits are reinvested in the community. This is a model that we should certainly be supporting. 

In moving on to the next steps, in the hope that Morlais will be operational by next year, what we want to see is that there is confidence developing in the infrastructure that has been created and in the grid connectivity and so on. So, will the Cabinet Secretary provide further information about the conversations that she's had with the UK Government and GB Energy in order to ensure that Morlais is now supported to attract developers to the site—very many are interested, of course—and whether any specific resources or funding will be allocated to do that?

I'm really grateful for the contribution there in recognising this really important next step in terms of support for Menter Môn's Morlais project. The fact the Welsh Government has taken an £8 million equity stake really, I think, shows the commitment that we have, as a Government, to that project. And the way in which we’re very excited about the fact is, as you say, it’s a social enterprise and it is a really exceptional model. But what it offers also is, we believe, to be world-leading, and I do know that some really good discussions are now going on internationally with investors and developers who want to use that site to test out some of their innovative technology. And I do think this does provide us with a really good opportunity to put ourselves on the map as being somewhere we can have these test and demonstration projects successfully supported in Wales. So, I'm really excited about the next steps for that project and I think, on so many fronts, Wales is showing now that we are able to lead.

When we talk about floating offshore wind, as we often do in this Chamber, and other forms of renewable energy, the fact that Welsh Government is committed, I think, strongly to this agenda, does send out an important message. And actually, the support that we have right from the Chamber I think sets out that important message. Because when I talk to developers and others, one of the key things that they want from any Government is certainty and confidence, and I think that the enthusiasm that all colleagues have for this agenda does provide that confidence and that certainty.

I was really pleased to see so many facilities in north Wales in receipt of this funding from Welsh Government through Ynni Cymru, including Holywell football club, who have solar panels now, new heating and water systems and new floodlights in addition to electric vehicle chargers. It’s sustainable and saves so much money in energy costs. And what I really like is it’s a complete package, so you’ve got the solar creating the energy and the storage, so it’s there and can be used as needed. Would you encourage other community groups and sports centres and leisure centres, because we know that a lot are struggling, to apply for this funding? I remember that for our village hall we used to look for funding packages through our local voluntary council. So, perhaps that’s one way we could actually share information about it, through the voluntary councils as well, going forward. Thank you.

Absolutely. I think that the community and voluntary councils locally will have a really important role in terms of disseminating the information about the opportunities that will exist through this funding, but then also, as I was saying in response to Jenny Rathbone, about highlighting the importance of this work, in terms of reducing costs and providing that energy certainty and stability, for those businesses or organisations that can just afford to make those investments in any case.

There are some really good examples right across north Wales. We’ve heard about Holywell Town Football Club, but we also have Saint Asaph cathedral. It will be installing solar and battery storage. Caban community interest company will be installing solar PV battery storage and heat pumps. And of course there’s also funding for M-SParc, which will be installing solar-PV and heat pumps also. So, a whole range of different projects, a range of technologies, are being supported all across north Wales and west Wales.

And finally, Mark Isherwood. 

Diolch, Llywydd. Well, clearly, I welcome support for projects in north Wales, ranging from Morlais tidal stream project, and I previously visited Menter Môn to discuss this, and Holywell Town Football Club, which several of you have mentioned, which I have previously been to, but not for a while, to watch a match. You stated, however, that after—. In fact, you blamed the former UK Conservative Government for the global cost-of-living crisis, stating, and I quote:

'energy bills, and household budgets have been hit harder by the energy crisis than any major advanced country.'

Is that not a deliberate deception, given that inflation rates are higher than in the UK in 10 out of the G20 major economies, including the United States, in 22 European countries and in the European Union?

No. I would disagree completely with that assessment. It's been well rehearsed now, I think, on the floor, in terms of the Senedd, regarding the absolute mess that the incoming UK Government had to deal with, and—[Interruption.] No, you don’t have to ask me; you don’t have to take it from anyone. Ask families how they’ve been feeling and the challenges that they’ve been facing over recent years following the UK Government’s mismanagement of the economy.

So, what we’re trying to do through Ynni Cymru is actually provide that level of support, that level of certainty, and that level of resilience for individual community organisations, but also for small and medium-sized enterprises, because we know that investment in renewable energy can help reduce costs for the future, and provide that level of certainty about the way in which bills might change in the future.

So, I hope, despite the comments this afternoon, that the Member would join me in celebrating the success of Ynni Cymru, but also in promoting it to other organisations and businesses and community groups within his region.

Thank you, Cabinet Secretary.

Item 4 this afternoon is a statement by the Cabinet Secretary for Health and Social Care, programme of international NHS recruitment. And I call on the Cabinet Secretary, Jeremy Miles. 

Thank you, Dirprwy Lywydd. The NHS in Wales now has more staff than at any point in its history. Today, the NHS itself directly employs almost 97,000 full-time equivalent staff. This is a 21 per cent increase since before the pandemic. We have seen the development of new roles and healthcare professionals have unlocked new skills to provide new services to the public. And this is thanks to our commitment to continue investing in the current workforce and in training the NHS workforce of the future. We have continued to do this through the most difficult of financial times, including a decade of austerity, persistently high inflation and the pandemic. We are currently investing around £286 million every year on training new members of the workforce. We are committed to delivering a sustainable NHS workforce, one that's equipped to handle the demands of the present, but also to meet the needs of future generations. It is crucial for the NHS to make effective use of the skills within each profession, thereby enabling staff to work at the top of their skill set and work as part of multidisciplinary teams.

But the pressures on NHS services during and in the wake of the pandemic have exposed vulnerabilities and shortages in some parts of the NHS workforce. It takes time to train healthcare professionals at home to fill these critical gaps, and we cannot continue to rely on expensive agency and locum staff to fill vacancies. Ethical international recruitment has become part of our workforce strategy to ensure that the NHS in Wales has the right people and skills it needs.

Wales has a long and proud tradition of welcoming healthcare professionals from all over the world throughout the history of the NHS since it was established. This is a great place to train, work and live for internationally educated healthcare staff. And by welcoming healthcare professionals from around the world, we bring in a wealth of knowledge, skills and experience that enrich our healthcare system. These professionals bring diverse perspectives and innovative approaches to patient care, which can, and does, lead to better outcomes for people.

The all-Wales international recruitment programme is a national strategic workforce initiative led by the NHS Wales Shared Services Partnership, in collaboration with health boards and NHS trusts across Wales. It has successfully recruited more than 1,000 internationally educated healthcare professionals into the NHS Wales workforce. The majority are internationally educated nurses, hailing from countries such as India, the Philippines and various other nations.

As part of the Wales in India initiative, the First Minister, when she was health Minister, signed an agreement with the Government of Kerala to facilitate the recruitment of qualified healthcare professionals from India to Wales. This is a direct Government to Government relationship, working through a not-for-profit Kerala Government recruitment agency, Norka Roots. The Welsh Government outlined a commitment to recruit 250 qualified healthcare workers from India as part of the memorandum of understanding with the Kerala Government in March of last year.

The recruitment drive has outperformed that goal, with more than 300 healthcare professionals taking up positions across NHS Wales. In addition to the recruitment of highly trained and skilled nurses, the programme has also successfully appointed doctors into hard-to-fill specialties, including emergency medicine, gastroenterology, haematology, oncology and radiology. The programme has been particularly successful in supporting mental health services, recruiting 14 psychiatrists last year. Additional appointments are being made following a recent recruitment event in Hyderabad two weeks ago. Recruitment to psychiatry is a challenge in the UK and internationally.

Five million pounds has been retained centrally in the Welsh Government to support international recruitment in 2024-25. Alongside this programme, the Health Education and Improvement Wales and NHS Wales 'Train. Work. Live.' campaign continues to promote careers in NHS Wales and to target shortage professions. Talent Beyond Boundaries, a third sector organisation committed to connecting skilled refugees with employment opportunities, has received Welsh Government funding to expand its displaced talent programme into Wales. Proposals are currently being developed with NHS Wales to recruit qualified international doctors and nurses.

Additional international recruitment, along with new initiatives, will take place this year to support the recruitment needs of health boards and NHS trusts. We will be undertaking a pilot programme to recruit and train internationally educated nurses in mental health. A consultant pathway programme will provide international medical graduates with the professional development support to complete their chosen higher specialty portfolio, enabling them to join the General Medical Council's specialist register. And pathways for international dental practitioners are being developed to support NHS dentistry in Wales.

We are committed to recruiting internationally in a way that is both ethical and sustainable. In Kerala, for example, there is a deliberate overtraining and oversupply of healthcare professionals, many of whom seek opportunities to work and to train abroad. Our goal is to ensure that their experience in Wales is positive and enriching, whilst also supporting their professional growth, whether that's in Wales or at home. It's vital that we provide adequate support and resources to help our international colleagues integrate into our healthcare system. This includes offering comprehensive induction programmes, ongoing professional development and support for their families. By doing so, we can ensure that they feel valued and supported, which, ultimately, will benefit them, patients and the wider NHS.

An app funded by the Welsh Government has been introduced, providing internationally educated nurses with easy access to a wealth of work-related information and other resources to support their social integration within the community. The Ethnic Minority Women in Welsh Healthcare organisation has established a mentoring scheme to promote professional development and support the integration of female ethnic minority workers into the Welsh NHS. The scheme is available to all internationally educated nurses who join the NHS in Wales.

By investing in international recruitment initiatives, alongside our ongoing commitment to training a home-grown workforce, we are driving down agency spend and improving the quality of care in the NHS. Finally, Dirprwy Lywydd, and, importantly, I want to thank all the international staff working in the Welsh NHS and celebrate the contribution they make to healthcare in Wales.

I'd like to associate myself with the comments that the Cabinet Secretary made at the end of his contribution. I'd also like to thank him for an advance copy of his statement this afternoon.

The recent increases in NHS Wales staffing levels are a positive development, yet it raises critical concerns about the long-term sustainability of our healthcare workforce. While international recruitment has provided essential short-term relief, it's evident that this approach cannot serve as a permanent solution. The Welsh Government must prioritise domestic recruitment and training to ensure a self-sufficient NHS in Wales. The proposed closure of Cardiff University's nursing programme is particularly alarming. As the top nursing college in Wales, and ranked fifth in the UK, Cardiff University plays a pivotal role in educating our future healthcare professionals. At a time when we're already facing a shortage of 2,000 nurses, how can the Welsh Government justify allowing such a closure of a vital institution? The Royal College of Nursing has expressed grave concerns, warning that this decision could have a devastating impact on the future of nursing in Wales. A Welsh Government spokesperson said it was 'working urgently' to secure the same number of nurses were trained in Wales. I’d like to ask you, Cabinet Secretary: could you elaborate how 'working urgently' looks in practice? If you could answer that, that would be useful.

Despite efforts to train more nurses locally, graduate numbers have not kept pace with demand. The latest figures show 5,561 full-time equivalent vacancies in the NHS in Wales, with medical and dental staff experiencing a staggering 9.9 per cent vacancy rate. The Government’s response has been to recruit overseas, but is this truly a sustainable strategy in the long term?

International recruitment has helped fill some of the gaps. In 2023, the NHS in Wales recruited 400, as you said, internationally educated nurses and a £5 million programme has been launched to recruit a further 250 in 2024-25. While these professionals make an invaluable contribution to the NHS in Wales, the reliance on international staff is only increasing, with agency spend reaching £325 million in 2022-23 and nearly £240 million in 2023 alone. How can we justify this level of expenditure while failing to invest in our own domestic workforce?

There are also a number of practical challenges associated with international recruitment. The Welsh Government’s own programme identified issues with sourcing accommodation for international staff. Inconsistencies in access to objective structured clinical examination training as well was an issue. Ethical recruitment is important, but it should not come at the expense of properly supporting those already working within our NHS.

I’ve got three questions I’d like to ask you today, Cabinet Secretary. You allocated £268 million to train new members of the workforce across Wales. Given the critical shortage of nurses in Wales, I would like to know how you plan to mitigate the impact of the closure of the nursing programme in Cardiff University.

You also say that agency staff today cannot continue at the level that it is. So, with agency spending reaching unsustainable levels, what specific measures will the Welsh Government implement to reduce reliance on international recruitment and develop a more robust training pipeline for our nurses in Wales?

It did say in your statement as well that the Welsh Government had allocated £5 million to support international recruitment, and that had been held centrally. I take it that that central pot is with the NHS executive. And I’d say, considering the practical challenges identified with international recruitment, how will the Welsh Government ensure that internationally recruited staff receive adequate support without compromising the resources that are available to our existing NHS workforce within our health boards across Wales?

While international recruitment, Cabinet Secretary, has provided short-term relief, it’s not a viable, long-term workforce strategy. The focus should be on securing the future of nurses educated here in Wales, expanding our training opportunities and ensuring that our NHS is staffed by our skilled professionals from within our own communities. That’s a priority for me, and I’m sure it should be a priority for this Government. Because without immediate action in this area we risk inflicting long-term damage on the sustainability of our health workforce across Wales, which is already under huge strain.

I’ve asked you three questions there, Cabinet Secretary. I know the Government get pretty annoyed when we ask a number of questions, so I’ve been led to believe, so, hopefully, you can answer those three questions that I’ve given you today.

Ask as many questions as you like.

Oh, there we are; I've got another 20 here, then. [Laughter.]

When they’ve been answered in the statement, it’s sometimes a challenge, but nevertheless.

Look, the Member makes, I think, some important points, but I just think at the heart of his challenge to the statement was a false choice between recruitment domestically and recruitment internationally. The statement, I think, is at pains to say that the Government sees the vital importance of recruiting a domestic workforce and the real value of recruiting internationally as well. I sought to explain why, in particular, international recruitment can be of particular value when shortages emerge that you know take some time through the usual course of recruitment into student places and training. Those sometimes take some time to be able to fill through longer term domestic recruitment. So, there is a role to be played, a significant role to be played, by international recruitment alongside the domestic recruitment programme that we have.

The Member makes an important point, I think, in recognising, as I think he did, that the numbers recruited into the NHS are at an all-time high. And yet there are also too many vacancies in the system as well. And I think he makes an important point: can we expect to see ever-escalating numbers in the NHS? I don't think that that is possible. We need to be able to make sure that the advances in technology, advances in medical science are fully utilised alongside both the existing workforce and additional recruits as well, to make sure that the pattern of recruitment in the longer term is sustainable. 

He asked me a question about agency spend. I hope that I was clear in the statement: recruitment internationally is not at all the driver of agency spend, and actually it's part of the contribution to reducing agency spend because we're recruiting people into roles, being employed in the NHS itself. That is one of the many benefits that this recruitment programme brings. He correctly indicated that there has been a significant reduction in agency spend, down from £325 million in 2022-23 to £262 million in 2023-24, and I'm pleased to say that the management information that we have in the NHS at the moment—so, that is information used within the NHS not yet externally validated—shows that that has been reduced in the last financial year even further, down to £173 million. So, by my very rough and quick calculations, it's about half of what it was two years before. And he will have noted in the planning guidance that I've given to the system this year a requirement to continue to bear down on agency costs across the range of roles.

I mentioned in my statement the range of support that we provide, and I'm glad that he mentioned that in his question. It is important, and I hope that the points that I made in the statement helped to give him reassurance that there is a network of support available to support those choosing to move to Wales to work in the NHS.

He made an important point, finally, in relation to the impact on nursing education of the proposal for consultation that Cardiff University, obviously, has announced. I was very disappointed indeed to see that proposal being published, as Members in this Chamber have been across the piece. But I think that it is very important, and I know that he will recognise this, for us to be able to give a clear sense to the nursing profession—and he mentioned the RCN's concerns—and to those considering coming into the profession that, despite the announcement of the proposal for consultation, HEIW have been engaged with us as a Government, with the university and with other universities who have commissioning contracts with HEIW. These run over many years and have quite a level of flexibility within them, so it does allow a situation where those nursing numbers can be reallocated. Those discussions are happening at the moment. Obviously, Cardiff University hasn't yet taken a final decision, so there is a limit in that sense, in a final sense, but I have a good level of confidence that we will be able to make sure that the number of training places available through Cardiff University are made available elsewhere. 

Well, the international brigade, to borrow a name from another context, has been a core part of the NHS workforce since its creation. As early as the 1940s, there were recruitment campaigns abroad to turn Bevan's dream into a reality, and thousands of people from all parts of the world responded to the call—from the Caribbean, the Indian sub-continent and beyond. It's our privilege that they continue to do that today, because our health service couldn't cope without their contributions. I therefore support the statement and the decision by the Government to push the budget to support the Kerala exchange scheme forward to 2025-26, and I'd be grateful if the Cabinet Secretary could expand on some of the practical details related to that.

The Cabinet Secretary referred to the agreement to recruit up to 250 healthcare professionals from Kerala during the current financial year. So, could the Cabinet Secretary confirm how these recruits are distributed across Wales? Speaking from a constituency perspective, the Cabinet Secretary will be aware that Tywyn Hospital has been under considerable pressure because of a failure to attract nurses. We were told that nurses from Kerala would be recruited and resolve the problems. Indeed, four students arrived at Dolgellau for training, but my understanding is that, within months, two of those Kerala nurses left to work elsewhere, meaning that the in-patient ward is still closed. So, can the Cabinet Secretary explain why they are not retained when they arrive in their hospital?

Regrettably, of course, despite the importance of ensuring our hospitals have as much flexibility as possible to fill posts that can't be met by domestic recruitment alone, recent developments have only served to hinder rather than help the NHS in this respect. Being outside the single market has undermined Wales's attractiveness as a place to work for our European neighbours. So, could the Cabinet Secretary confirm whether the Welsh Government has undertaken any impact assessment of the added costs to NHS recruitment processes over the past five years since the UK left the single market?

This issue has been compounded by failures on the Welsh Government's part, such as the imminent closure of the nursing school at Cardiff University, which we just heard about. As our national capital, it stands to reason that Cardiff has a particular appeal for migrants, so this news is a devastating blow for the Welsh NHS's profile amongst international applicants. I know the Government has committed to outlining how they intend to maintain nurse training levels in spite of the closure of the school, so could the Cabinet Secretary confirm whether this will include an assessment of how international recruitment, specifically, will be affected?

The Cabinet Secretary will be aware how damaging the previous UK Government's UK health and care worker visa was, and has led to a decline in the number of foreign care workers entering the country. This adds significant pressure on our health service. So, what discussions has the Cabinet Secretary had with his UK counterparts to repeal these immigration rules?

Back in 2020, the Welsh Government published a position paper on migration and, in that paper, you called to reduce or remove the £25,600 salary threshold. You said it should be simple and easy to use, and should not create significant and costly financial and administrative burdens for businesses. And you called for an unsponsored visa, with a route to settlement if an individual is able to upskill to regulated qualifications framework 3 plus during this time. The Conservative Government did none of this. But now, with a much vaunted partnership in power, the Labour Party is in a position to do these things. So, can you confirm what conversations you've had with the UK Government to realise your calls in this regard?

Finally, it's vital that efforts to attract international staff to the NHS are effectively complemented with continued investment to train more domestic staff. We can't rely on international recruitment alone to address the glaring gaps in the workforce, which include over 2,000 full-time equivalent nurse vacancies. So, what is the Cabinet Secretary's understanding of where the optimal balance lies between international recruitment and expanding the domestic staff? Diolch yn fawr iawn.

I thank Mabon ap Gwynfor for that. He asked about some of the practical implications around the ethical recruitment policy and how that has been distributed and dispersed, if you like, throughout Wales. So, he will want to know that all NHS organisations in Wales adhere to the UK-wide code of practice for international recruitment of health and social care personnel. That really is the ethical underpinning, if you like, of the arrangements that we have in place that support our international recruitment efforts. Every health board, in addition to Velindre University NHS Trust, has made use of their allocation of the £5 million fund that I referred to in my statement. That's mainly been the recruitment of nurses, but has involved, in addition to that, the recruitment of a small number of doctors. So, that is a pattern across Wales.

I can't comment specifically on that situation that he referred to in Tywyn, but I'm very happy to pick up, separately, in relation to the individual details there, if he would find that helpful.

He asked me about next year. I think the budget for next year hasn't yet been passed. Of course, if he wants to help us continue to fund this programme, he has the opportunity of supporting the Government in that vote. I encourage him to do that. But the funding for next year is, I think, at £4 million. We judge that to be the level of funding that's required for the next financial year, provided the budget is secured. We think there is potential, next year, to recruit some qualified dentists, in particular, given the pressures we have on the dental workforce in Wales, and we hope to have those conversations with the agency, the Keralan Government agency I've referred to in my statement.

Just to address the point that he made about representations to the UK Government. I have already had discussions, actually on a four-nations basis, with the Minister responsible for dentistry in the UK Government, on changes to the General Dental Council provisions, which enable provisional registration of international dentists, which would support that. There is a regular rhythm of communication with our colleagues in Westminster, which is the partnership in power that he was alluding to in his question. He took me back, I'm afraid to say, to the time when I was Brexit Minister, referring to a number of the policy positions that I'm very familiar with from that time. He is right to say that there are restrictions in the path of ethical, smooth, recruitment from overseas, whether that be visa, but other requirements as well. We continue to make representations to the UK Government in relation to a range of those areas, recognising absolutely, as he says, that the impact that Brexit has had, as well as other factors, has been very significant on the NHS and social care sectors, as with other parts of public services and the economy. 

I thank the Cabinet Secretary.

Item 5 today is the Land Transaction Tax (Modification of Relief for Acquisitions Involving Multiple Dwellings) (Wales) Regulations 2025. I call on the Cabinet Secretary for Finance and Welsh Language to move the motion. Mark Drakeford.

Diolch yn fawr, Dirprwy Lywydd. In December, the Welsh Government announced our intention to make changes to the land transaction tax multiple dwellings relief, or MDR, as it is most often known. MDR is a relief available on the purchase of two or more dwellings in the same transaction. Until now, taxpayers have been able to benefit from both MDR and another tax relief, the subsidiary dwelling exception—or SDE, as it is known—in the same transaction. The subsidiary dwelling exception provides that the main residential rates can be paid on certain multiple-dwelling transactions instead of the higher rates. Now, I do not believe that it is a sensible policy position that both MDR and SDE should be used together in the same transaction, as each can provide support for taxpayers when used separately.

The changes I've proposed will mean that where the SDE applies, MDR claims will no longer be allowed. The MDR rules, otherwise, will be largely unchanged. Now, as set out in the explanatory memorandum, these changes are expected to increase LTT revenues by between £1 million and £2 million each year. The increased revenue will partly offset the cost of providing MDR, which has on average amounted to £10 million each year since 2018.

As I set on in my written statements of 10 December and 14 January, over the coming year I will further review the usefulness of MDR, its benefits as a policy lever, and its impact on LTT revenue. The abolition of MDR remains an option that I will keep under active consideration. In England and Northern Ireland, the previous UK Government abolished MDR in June of last year. The change proposed here will partially offset the adverse block grant adjustment that follows that decision and which is anticipated to reduce the block grant that comes to Wales by around £8 million a year by 2028-29, unless further changes are made.

The regulations include transitional rules to protect buyers who exchange contracts before the regulations come into force, but will complete afterwards. Those taxpayers will be able, other than where contracts have been varied, to observe the rules in force when the contracts were exchanged. As ever, Dirprwy Lywydd, I am grateful to the Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee for its report, and I ask Members to approve these regulations.

I have no other speakers, so the proposal is to agree the motion. Does any Member object? No, and the motion is therefore agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.

Item 6 is the legislative consent motion on the Great British Energy Bill. I call on the Cabinet Secretary for Economy, Energy and Planning to move the motion. Rebecca Evans.

Diolch. The Great British Energy Bill makes provision to enable the Secretary of State to designate a publicly owned company as Great British Energy and to provide financial assistance to the company to set its strategic priorities and to give it mandatory directions. The UK Government has stated the company will deliver on the policy objectives to drive clean energy deployment, create jobs, boost energy independence, and provide value for the UK taxpayer.

Great British Energy is also intended to work in partnership with industry and unions, as well as communities, local authorities, and other public sector organisations, to invest in and drive the deployment of clean energy. The policy intent is also for Great British Energy to invest in, own and develop clean energy projects in order to de-risk and accelerate the delivery of projects and provide support where there is a market gap.

The Welsh Government supports the overall policy aims of Great British Energy and the Bill to establish the company. As part of the constitutional principles of devolution, any decision that has any relevance to Wales should be developed with Welsh Ministers, and this is especially the case for matters that are within the competence of Welsh Ministers and the Senedd. Following a period of joint work on the Bill, the UK Government has responded to our position by laying an amendment to the Bill in clause 5. This amendment replaces the requirement to consult with Welsh Ministers on the strategic direction of Great British Energy as outlined in that clause where they relate to devolved matters.

This amendment has the effect of requiring the consent of Welsh Ministers. The amendment requires that the Secretary of State must not without the consent of Welsh Ministers include in a statement under clause 5 anything that concerns a subject matter provision that would be within the legislative competence of the Senedd. In relation to seeking consent on matters that fall within clause 5, the UK Government is expected to write to the Welsh Government seeking formal consent, to which we would respond accordingly.

In line with the inter-institutional relations agreement, I can confirm that the Welsh Government will write to relevant committees to inform them of an intention to consent to the UK Government exercising a delegated legislative power in a devolved area in relation to Wales, explaining the rationale for their intention to consent. Where time allows, we will provide an opportunity for the Senedd to express a view before consent is formally given. A written statement will then follow. I’ve also received assurances from the Minister for energy that the Welsh Government will be consulted should any direction be issued as a consequence of clause 6, should it relate to a matter that is within the legislative competence of the Senedd. I thank the Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee for raising this point.

The amendment to clause 5 of the Bill is important as it’s essential that Welsh Ministers have a say on the statement of strategic priorities for Great British Energy, both initially and during any revisions to that statement. Wales is in a strong position to work effectively with the UK Government due to our abundance of national resources and our experience in this area. The amendment proposed by the UK Government with respect to clause 5 enables me to recommend the Senedd give consent to the Great British Energy Bill. I move the motion.

I call on the Chair of the Climate Change, Environment and Infrastructure Committee, Llyr Gruffydd.

Thank you very much, Deputy Llywydd. The committee reported on the LCM for the Great British Energy Bill last year, with the original consent. The supplementary LCM for the Bill was referred to the committee on 28 January, a few days ago. We considered it at our meeting on 30 January and laid our report on the supplementary LCM yesterday.

Two weeks ago, I stood up in this Chamber outlining my concerns about the inadequacies of the LCM process. In the interest of time, I don’t intend to repeat all of my concerns, but suffice to say the timetable I’ve just outlined for scrutiny of the supplementary LCM speaks volumes once again to the ongoing problems with this process.

I'll move on now to the conclusions of the committee’s report. In our first report, we raised concerns about the potential duplication of the functions of Great British Energy and Trydan Gwyrdd Cymru, in particular how the operation of the new company may impact on Trydan Gwyrdd Cymru’s ability to deliver its aims successfully. We also sought clarification about any potential overlap between the remit, aims and operation of GBE with those of Ynni Cymru, the Welsh Government energy service and Community Energy Wales.

Finally, we concluded that clause 5 of the Bill, which relates to the strategic priorities and plans of Great British Energy, was unsatisfactory. This was because, as it was then drafted, clause 5 placed a requirement on the Secretary of State to consult the Welsh Ministers rather than obtain their consent for any strategic priorities relating to devolved matters.

Since our report, as we've just heard from the Cabinet Secretary, the Welsh Government has secured an amendment to clause 5 to address this. That amendment is the subject of the supplementary LCM and our second report as a committee. Whilst the amendment is certainly an improvement in terms of the situation and better reflects devolved responsibilities, in our report we did ask the Cabinet Secretary to clarify how the Senedd would be consulted on strategic priorities concerning devolved matters in future, and I'm very grateful to the Cabinet Secretary for addressing that particular issue in her comments.

I think perhaps that the caveat 'where time allows' made me slightly nervous, but we certainly acknowledge that that is an improvement compared with what was proposed in the first instance. So, may I thank you for those comments? With those few words, I'll conclude my contribution.

I call on the Chair of the Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee. Mike Hedges.

Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer. The committee has reported on both legislative consent memoranda for the Bill. As the Welsh Government was only able to lay a supplementary memorandum just over a week ago, our second report was laid yesterday afternoon.

The committee reports have focused on the prospective overlap between Great British Energy and Trydan Gwyrdd Cymru, and the delegated powers in the Bill. The Welsh Government has said it is difficult to determine what the impact may be in terms of the operational application of Great British Energy as a company and potential conflicts of competition with Trydan Gwyrdd Cymru or other aspects of Welsh Government energy delivery functions.

The committee concluded in its first report that it was concerned that the Senedd will likely be asked to make a decision on whether or not to consent to the Bill without knowing sufficient details about the planned operation of Great British Energy and therefore its potential impact on Trydan Gwyrdd Cymru. In the committee’s second report, we have expressed disappointment with the Cabinet Secretary’s response to our concerns. Despite the Welsh Government’s admission that it was difficult to determine the impact Great British Energy may have on Trydan Gwyrdd Cymru, the Cabinet Secretary told the committee that she did not consider that further understanding of this relationship is required in relation to the Senedd’s consent decision on the Bill. 

The committee’s role is not to focus on the policy merits or otherwise of the establishment of Great British Energy. However, legislating where there is known potential for conflict with devolved Welsh interests is a matter that the Senedd may be fully informed of before it is asked to vote on whether legislative consent should be given to the UK Parliament.

The committee has accepted that memorandum No. 2 was laid swiftly by the Cabinet Secretary. Nevertheless, it is regrettable that the Welsh Government has not been able to give the Senedd adequate time to consider in sufficient detail the issues raised in memorandum No. 2 before bringing forward the motion today.

On the delegated powers in clause 6 of the Bill, the committee is concerned that the clause confers wide-ranging powers of direction on the Secretary of State that could have a direct impact on devolved areas. While the Cabinet Secretary has said that the Welsh Government has received assurances from the UK Government that it will be consulted before directions under clause 6 are given, the committee has made the point that assurances do not bind the UK Government.

Furthermore, as the Senedd is being asked to make its consent decision in the absence of certainty about the impact of Great British Energy, the committee said the Bill should be amended to include a formal role for the Senedd in connection with the exercise of any delegated powers by the Secretary of State.

The Cabinet Secretary responded that the amendment to clause 5 and assurances received from the UK Government as regards clause 6

'would be sufficient for the Senedd to make a consent decision for the Bill.'

This does not adequately reflect the Senedd as a legitimate democratic legislative body for Wales and does not address the fact that the Senedd will be sidelined during the future exercise of the delegated powers. The committee intends to give consideration to the role the Senedd may have in advance of the Welsh Ministers consenting to UK Ministers making regulations in devolved areas.

In closing, the committee has made a number of recommendations on the Bill’s interaction with the obligations of the UK-EU trade and co-operation agreement, and we look forward to receiving the Cabinet Secretary’s full response.

The Welsh Conservatives will be voting against the legislative consent motion for Great British Energy today, as it is yet another example of Labour's habit of overpromising and underdelivering.

Sir Keir Starmer pledged that GB Energy would cut household bills by £300 and create 1,000 new jobs in Aberdeen, but within weeks, the reality is unravelling. GB Energy's own chairman admits that delivering on these promises could take upwards of 20 years, and, even worse, in the short term, the number of jobs created will be around 200 or 300—far short of the 1,000 promised during the election. In a city where 50,000 people work in oil and gas, this is but a drop in the ocean.

Labour claims that GB Energy will help workers transition from fossil fuels to renewables, yet there is no plan. Unions like Unite warn of desolation in the north-east, while Prospect called Labour's approach 'risky' and warns of political fallout when these empty promises go unfulfilled. Even Labour's own energy Minister, Michael Shanks, struggled to defend these numbers.

And this isn't just about Aberdeen; we are a Welsh Parliament, it's about the future of UK energy security. GB Energy is not a power supplier, it's not a power generator, it's a supposed investment vehicle competing against other investment vehicles. It won't—

Will the Member give way?

I'm happy to give way.

Thank you. Many of the investment vehicles are owned by Governments of other countries. The Government of Norway owns a large investment fund in renewable energy around the world. Surely, for energy generated within these lands, it's not absurd for our own Government to want to capture that for the benefit of our citizens rather than the benefit of other countries' citizens.

But what we've got here is competition against other investment vehicles that are far more mature and delivering already, and the plan that GB Energy has is incredibly weak; the detail is far from comprehensive in what GB Energy is actually going to deliver.

And it won't lower bills tomorrow; it won't lower bills next year or even in five years. GB Energy chair Juergen Maier couldn't even say when the mythical £300 savings would occur. So, Labour misled the public into believing that this scheme would save them hundreds of pounds, which they campaigned on in the general election, and yet energy prices rise.

I and Welsh Conservative colleagues have acknowledged the opportunities provided by a credible, well-planned transition to renewables, one that protects jobs, ensures energy security and acknowledges the positive role that oil and gas will continue to have, but GB Energy falls short.

As shadow Secretary of energy security Andrew Bowie MP said, this is a gimmick, not a solution. It lacks strategy, substance and urgency. Therefore, we cannot support a motion that endorses an initiative riddled with uncertainty and risk. Great British Energy is not a great British answer, it's a political vanity project that will harm jobs and delay real progress. For these reasons, we'll be voting against it today.

I don't think I quite agree with the number of assertions that the Conservative spokesperson made. However, there are concerns to be had with how things are currently standing. Regrettably, Plaid Cymru will be voting against the LCM this evening, because quite simply, it comes down to the fact that we are not clear on where GB Energy will be going, how it will interact with other energy-generating initiatives that the Welsh Government have put in place and the potential duplication of work with Trydan Gwyrdd Cymru. There are a lot of unknowns in this particular policy.

The Government itself has said that there is little information on the operational and practical aims of GB Energy—that is of concern. I understand some of the concessions that the Cabinet Secretary has managed to achieve from the UK Government. However, that doesn't give us the confidence to be able to support this LCM today. What we need to see is what is GB Energy about, where is it going, how is it going to interact with those Welsh institutions. That's the important thing here—the sovereignty of the Welsh Government and this place. For that reason, we'll be voting against the LCM.

The Cabinet Secretary to reply—Rebecca Evans.

Thank you very much. Thank you to colleagues for their contributions this afternoon, but particular thanks to the committee Chairs and the committees for their really helpful reports on the legislative consent memorandum.

I will just reflect on the contributions from the Conservative benches both in this debate and the debate that we had on Ynni Cymru earlier on this afternoon. It seems that, whilst the Conservatives want to say they support renewable energy, they will do so, but not when it involves retaining the benefits in Britain and retaining the benefits in Wales. That, I have to say, is really disappointing.

I want to say that I fully appreciate and recognise the challenging timetable that there's been for the Bill and the impact that has had on committees' scrutiny arrangements. I am grateful to committees for their forbearance in that respect. There were over 100 amendments laid in the House of Lords, and Committee Stage did then end up being quite a bit longer than was originally anticipated. But I did work really constructively with the UK Government Ministers to ensure that the UK Government amendment, which we've been talking about this afternoon, was laid at the earliest possible point to enable as much time as possible for Senedd scrutiny. And I hope I was able to provide at least some reassurance in relation to the role of the inter-institutional relations agreement too this afternoon for colleagues.

Climate change is one of the greatest challenges that we face, and the Welsh Government is supportive of this legislation to establish Great British Energy to help facilitate and encourage the development of renewable energy projects. As colleagues have recognised already this afternoon, we do have energy delivery bodies in place supporting and developing projects here in Wales, so we are, I think, uniquely placed to understand the scale of the task ahead and how essential partnership working will be when it comes to Great British Energy. Through Trydan Gwyrdd Cymru, Ynni Cymru and the Welsh Government energy service, we do have really detailed knowledge now about the needs, but also the potential projects right across Wales.

Following those early discussions that I've had with UK Ministers, I do envisage the continuation of a positive relationship with Great British Energy, Trydan Gwyrdd Cymru and our other energy delivery bodies, including Ynni Cymru, as we continue to drive forward renewable energy investment in Wales, for Wales. I see this as really being an opportunity for strong collaboration, rather than an area where we should be concerned about duplication, competition or conflict. I think there are wonderful opportunities for us to work with Great British Energy to realise the huge renewable energy potential that we have here in Wales.

The proposal is to agree the motion. Does any Member object? [Objection.] Yes, there is objection. Therefore, we will defer voting until voting time. 

The next item is the draft budget for 2025-26. I call on the Cabinet Secretary for finance to move the motion—Mark Drakeford.

Thank you very much, Llywydd. I look forward to this afternoon's debate on the Welsh Government's draft budget for 2025-26, which was published by us on 10 December. The purpose of this further debate today is mainly to hear from Senedd committees and to take account of their work in scrutinising the draft budget and related documents. Every Cabinet Secretary, including myself, have all provided evidence to relevant committees. We welcome constructive scrutiny, and I'm grateful to committee members, colleagues in the Cabinet and everyone who's participated in that scrutiny process. At the moment, the Welsh Government is in the process of agreeing the finer details for the final budget, so today is a crucial opportunity for views from different parts of the Senedd to be included as part of that process.

Before we hear from committee Chairs and other Members, I thought that I should briefly set out the main characteristics of the draft budget. That appears particularly necessary given that the budget is so radically different to the budgets of previous years when we were forced to make difficult and painful decisions.

Llywydd, altogether, the budget provides an additional £1.5 billion to support our public services and key priorities over the next financial year, and it does that over and above the additional £750 million made available in the current financial year, and which creates a new and higher platform on which to build the budget for 2025-26. In sharp contrast to this time last year, I have been able to provide an uplift to every part of the public service here in Wales, as well as to many other important areas. Every department of the Welsh Government receives an increase in both capital and revenue funding. Key areas, such as the NHS, local government, education, transport and climate change will all benefit from this additional funding. The greatest cash increase, as Members would expect, goes to the health service here in Wales, while the greatest percentage uplift in revenue has been applied to the transport portfolio for all the outstanding work that has been carried out and will continue to be carried out there.

Llywydd, for the first time we are allocating more than £3 billion in capital investment as part of the draft budget. This is a major and necessary investment in the building of new schools, more homes, improving infrastructure in our health service, investing in renewable energy, repairing roads and renewing our public transport system. This significant increase in capital spending programmes across all departments is in line with the additional allocations of £575 million in just one year. The additional funding provided in the draft budget enables us to rebuild our public services and puts us on the right road towards economic growth.

Through the draft budget, we provide funding to ensure that we deliver against our priorities for a healthier Wales, for jobs and green growth, to give opportunities to all families and to connect our communities.

Now, in allocating the funding available to us, the draft budget has been constructed to maximise the resources at our disposal for next year's purposes. The bulk of that, of course, comes through the Barnett formula and is the result of the decisions made by the Chancellor of the Exchequer in her autumn budget on the 30 October. But, Llywydd, that is not all that is contained within the draft budget, because as well as that enormous additional funding provided by the new UK Government, there are the resources invested in the draft budget as a result of the decisions made in this Senedd. As I explained to the Finance Committee, the fiscal levers available to us remain modest, but such has been the success of their application in Wales that next year's budget has £317 million more to invest than would have been the case had we not achieved that success. It means that a fifth of our budget will be financed by devolved taxation in 2025-26.

It's no surprise, Llywydd, therefore, that the increase in the draft budget has been welcomed by many of those who have appeared before Senedd committees over the past weeks. Of course, those organisations would argue, as is the case in any budgetary round, for greater investment in their areas of interest, and that is absolutely right, of course. It is the responsibility of such organisations to put pressure on the Welsh Government to do more, and we are listening carefully to the advice that they provide to us. Indeed, the main purpose of today's debate is to listen to the evidence provided to committees and to consider the conclusions that they have come to. The committees published their reports and recommendations yesterday and we will be considering their findings carefully.

In these opening remarks, Llywydd, I make the point you would expect any finance Secretary to make, that those proposals for additional expenditure which have arisen during the process of scrutinising the budget will be taken particularly seriously when they are matched by proposals to reduce expenditure elsewhere. Because that is the only way, the only responsible way, in which additional expenditure can be found from within the draft budget.

Llywydd, in previous years this debate, an important moment in the scrutinising of the Welsh Government's proposals, has often been a thoughtful and an influential debate, grappling with those challenging choices that lie behind any budget. Indeed, budget making is all about choices, and I look forward to continue to grapple with those dilemmas, drawing now on the advice of the Senedd as we come to the final stages of making a budget for the coming year.

The Chair of the Finance Committee now—Peredur Owen Griffiths. 

Thank you, Llywydd. It's a pleasure to contribute to this debate on the Welsh Government’s draft budget for 2025-26. Before I turn to specific recommendations, I would like to note that this report is the culmination of work that began last summer. This includes our pre-budget engagement work and evidence sessions, as well as our consultation that resulted in the highest response rate to any of our draft budget consultations to date in this Senedd. I believe that this demonstrates the strength of feeling that exists regarding the implications of the funding decisions being made. We very much welcome this level of engagement that is instrumental to our work.

Llywydd, I want to begin by welcoming the increase in funding provided both for this year and for 2025-26, unlike the austerity budgets of the past. However, from the evidence we heard, we find it difficult to share the Welsh Government’s optimism and find that there are a number of key areas where the Welsh Government needs to refocus.

Firstly, we received a groundswell of evidence from organisations concerned by the impact of increases in employer national insurance contributions. We believe that urgent action is required to avoid a cliff-edge scenario for a number of organisations, and have called on the Cabinet Secretary to confirm the funding the Welsh Government will receive from the Treasury to mitigate the impact of these increases; assess the impact that these increases will have on third sector organisations; and work with local authorities to understand how commissioned services are impacted by the increase, and that any additional funding is distributed to local authorities based on calculations of additional costs as a result of the change. I note that a number of other Senedd committees have made similar recommendations in their reports, which clearly reflects the strength of concerns, and I hope the Cabinet Secretary takes heed of the Senedd’s collective view on these issues today.

Secondly, the committee also heard compelling evidence that the cost-of-living crisis has sadly become entrenched in the daily lives of many across Wales. We found it surprising that the Welsh Government is pivoting away from providing dedicated support in this area and believe this should be a higher priority. In particular, we were disappointed that the expert group on cost of living and poverty has fallen into abeyance, and we call for the establishment of a Government standing committee in its place to co-ordinate action.

We also found support lacking in several areas. For example, we were disappointed that the baby bundle scheme and phase 3 of Flying Start will not be rolled out universally across Wales, and request further clarity on why this has not happened. Whilst we note that the Welsh Government has mechanisms in place to support older people who will no longer receive winter fuel payments, our evidence indicated that take-up amongst those who are eligible is not as high as it should be, and we ask the Welsh Government to take steps to address this. Given the disproportionate impact of cost-of-living pressures on women in particular, the committee was also disappointed with the progress made by the Welsh Government with regard to its gender budgeting pilots, and ask for these to be published as a matter of urgency.

Despite the additional funding for 2025-26, we heard evidence from key stakeholders questioning the financial resilience of front-line services. We have asked the Welsh Government to explain the steps being taken through the draft budget to address these concerns, including explaining how the draft budget will address increased demands for social care, and fix the social care funding model, which, as we heard, was fundamentally broken. We are calling on the Cabinet Secretary to consider a funding floor for local authorities, as well as providing them with multi-year funding settlements to ensure greater financial stability, and also asking for further clarity on the protocol being developed between Welsh Government and local authorities that would apply in circumstances of significant financial challenge.

We are also concerned about the levels of funding allocated to alleviate workforce pressures in the NHS and in social care, and want Welsh Government to confirm that the funding allocated is sufficient to address the recruitment and retention challenges being faced. We asked for similar assurances in relation to the funding allocated in the draft budget to support additional learning needs and the assumptions used to derive allocations for Transport for Wales.

Another source of disappointment for the committee was the insufficient focus on the steps being taken to tackle issues around productivity in public services, with stakeholders calling for 'radical honesty' within Government to grapple with the issue. As a result, we have called on the Cabinet Secretary to explain how productivity is assessed, as well as the improvements it expects public services to produce.

We also identified a number of areas where a greater focus is needed to aid transparency on this issue, including providing further details on how the £40 million allocation to the digital priorities investment fund will be evaluated; providing assurances that the funding for the education and training of the NHS workforce is at an adequate level; and publishing details of allocations made to local health boards.

We also want to test the Cabinet Secretary’s claims that the draft budget is moving money to support preventative measures, and that he works with the Future Generations Commissioner for Wales to agree an updated definition of what is meant by preventative spend.

Llywydd, as I mentioned already, this draft budget provides a substantial boost in funding, and we welcome the way those changes were presented. In particular, we were pleased with the additional information provided, which compared recent outturn figures with proposed figures for 2025-26, an approach we would like repeated, as well as greater details of the Barnett consequentials received. However, we heard that presentation could be improved in certain areas, and have called for clarity on how this will change across portfolios for next year and the specific impact on capital projects.

We also made further recommendations in this area, calling on the Cabinet Secretary to publish the latest block grant transparency data for Wales; to review the strategic integrated impact assessment, to ensure it accurately reflects the ways of working outlined in the Well-being of Future Generations (Wales) Act 2015; and explain how the impacts of key long-term financial risks such as climate change, demographic and health trends are being addressed in the short, medium and long term. As ever, we were also grateful to the Office for Budget Responsibility for engaging with us, and we made several recommendations aimed at improving their forecasts too.

Turning now to fiscal inter-governmental relations, a matter of long-standing interest to the committee following our stand-alone inquiry last year, we are glad that the relationship between the UK and Welsh Governments has improved, but we share the Cabinet Secretary’s frustration that progress on updating the fiscal framework is slow, and reiterate calls for this to be looked at as quickly as possible. We also welcome moves towards more regular spending reviews, as well as the information provided on the Welsh Government’s own spending review. That said, we would like further clarity about how the Welsh review will operate in practice and the likely outputs, so that the Senedd can be informed on its progress.

Finally, this committee has regularly criticised the amount of time available for committees to scrutinise the draft budget. When scrutinising £26 billion of public money, a little over a month is no time at all.

We welcome the fact that the Cabinet Secretary’s recognised these challenges, and we look forward to conducting our pre-budget work again ahead of the next budget round, as well as seeking the views of committees on how the scrutiny process can be improved within the constraints of the timetable. We also welcome the Cabinet Secretary’s continuing engagement on updating the budget protocol, and we look forward to progressing those issues as we near the end of this Senedd.

To conclude, I would like to echo sentiments expressed at the beginning of my contribution. I have always maintained, as Chair, that I will be guided by the views of those who've taken the time to engage with us, and this year has been no exception. This report provides clear areas where greater focus is required and where improvements should be made. We look forward to hearing how the Cabinet Secretary will consider them ahead of the final budget. Thank you.

I have selected the amendment to the motion, and Sam Rowlands is moving amendment 1, tabled in the name of Paul Davies. Sam Rowlands.

Diolch, Llywydd, and I'm pleased to be able to speak on this debate today. I'm pleased also to move the amendment in the name of my colleague Paul Davies. I just want to thank the Cabinet Secretary for taking the time for a briefing ahead of the draft budget last month. I'm very grateful for that.

This is, of course, a moment in the calendar that shows the difference between parties within this Chamber, and it will show the difference between a Labour Government laying a draft budget and a Conservative Party who want to fix Wales. It brings clarity to the way in which we see the potential for the future of Wales, because, as the Cabinet Secretary said, how money's spent tells you everything you need to know about choices and priorities, and, of course, one of the best ways of predicting future behaviour and future choices is by looking at past behaviours and past choices. In this place, we've had more than a quarter of a century of budgets delivered by Labour-led Governments here in Wales, often propped up by the party of Plaid Cymru, and, as it stands, we've had the longest NHS waiting lists, worst educational outcomes anywhere in the United Kingdom, we have the least popular rail operator in Britain, and our farmers face a punitive family-farm tax thanks to the Labour Party in London. Businesses in Wales face the highest business rates in Britain, with London Labour now imposing national insurance hikes for Welsh employers that will see prices rise, jobs cuts and hospitality businesses facing bankruptcy.

Will the Member give way?

Certainly.

Thank you. I heard your interview on the radio this morning, and, again, you listed a long litany of policy areas you thought the Government was failing in, but, in terms of budget proposals, as far as I could hear, the only thing you were suggesting was a cut in business rates, but you haven't told us where you'd move money from in order to fund that cut. So, where would you cut in order to fund this great initiative of giving people 'freedom', I think you said, this morning?

I'm grateful for the intervention merely one minute into a 10-minute contribution. I'm sure you'll look forward to the next nine minutes to hear more of this. But, of course, what those policy outcomes point to is where funding is directed: they're all due to budget decisions. I'm sure the Member would recognise that. And instead of money for schools, this Labour Government decided to spend money on imposing the default 20 mph speed limit in Wales, which garnered 0.5 million signatures in opposition—the largest ever in the history of the Senedd. Think of all that money spent on 20 mph, which could be used to train and recruit the school workforce, to make Welsh education robust for the coming decades. Instead, we are at the bottom of the pile when it comes to Programme for International Student Assessment scores, and, sadly, the victims of a brain drain. 

Labour's spending priorities have been all wrong. Just recently, the finance Secretary exclaimed that

'Wales has too many hospitals and too many beds'.

This comes as a legacy is due to come along with 36 more politicians in the Senedd. [Interruption.] The Members don't like to hear words that are quoted back to them from their own Members—exact words quoted from their own Members. And all this comes down the road at a cost of well over £100 million for more Senedd Members. To me, it seems that Welsh Labour are happy to spend more money on politicians, but not more money on hospital beds. 

In our role of scrutinising this Government, we've seen first-hand how the wrong priorities can stymie a nation and hold back the progress of its people, from schoolchildren to public and private sector workers. We need a change, and I'm looking forward to the next Senedd elections, because our focus is to fix Wales, fix our health system, fix our education and fix the Welsh economy.

This also applies to taxation, and the burden for people across Wales and the rest of Britain is too high. We want a new approach, and Welsh Government does have levers to reduce the tax burden on people across Wales and put more money back in the pockets of hard-working people, and it's time that Welsh Government used these levers.

This draft budget in front of us today isn't set to give us a brand-new, transformative direction. It's the same failed Labour orthodoxy, the same failed political approach that we've laboured under for decades and, sadly, resulted in the outcomes I've listed previously.

As Conservatives, we believe that the role of Government, and therefore its budget, is to create the right environment to enable and empower people. This might be to provide for their own family, to start a business, to pursue new ideas through study, or support others through employment or philanthropy. We believe a budget should reflect these pursuits. So, we want a budget that empowers the people of Wales, instead of empowering quangos and bureaucrats; we want a budget that unburdens businesses, not that slaps them with excessive taxes excessive taxes and business rates. We want a budget, Llywydd, to transform the prospects of Wales and make an 'all guns blazing' economy. [Interruption.] Enabling people to improve their outcomes—

I do need to have some silence to hear Sam Rowlands and his contribution, so can we, please, hear Sam and allow him to continue, please?

Thank you, Llywydd. Enabling people to improve their outcomes should be the target, not a paternalistic Government seeking to involve itself in every part of everyone's life, an ideology from a bygone age that’s failed to succeed in Wales and fails and continues to fail—

Please, there are backbenchers, especially from the Labour backbenches, just having conversations across the Chamber, and we do need to hear the contributions of the Members on their feet. This is an important budget debate and people have things to say. We may not agree with everything that everybody says, but everybody is allowed to have that voice and to make those contributions. Sam Rowlands.

Thank you, Llywydd. A live example of one of these failed ideological approaches is the proposals within this draft budget on increasing the size of central Government budget through its central services budget. The last two years have seen £117 million-worth of further increases into this area. More backroom positions. A 34 per cent increase in the central services budget in three years. We don't see anywhere near that increase in funding for our health service and our education, which is in so desperate need of that extra support.

And, of course, these jobs have expanded and increased with no equivalent increase in performance in our economy as well. It's a classic example of where the Welsh Government is going wrong—an obsessive focus on centralisation and Government jobs at the expense of trusting people to spend their own money in the way that they see best for them and their families.

Now, taking a moment to look at the key areas of the draft budget, starting with health, a well-functioning NHS is what people want, free to use at the point of need, but also easy to access. Sadly, the only Government across the UK to cut a health budget was the Labour Welsh Government, and they refuse to spend the full Barnett consequential for health on health. So, it's no wonder things are broken. Over 100 GP surgeries have shut in Wales since 2012. It’s pushed our waiting lists to the brink, with 24,000 people waiting more than two years for treatment, and less than a 50 per cent chance of seeing an ambulance within the eight-minute target time in an emergency. There's so much more that could be done with a properly funded and resourced health service if you're working efficiently cross sector and cross border to tackle waiting times and enable people to flourish in good health.

We know that education is the best way for people to progress, so spend in this area is key to see people able to get on in life. Sadly, we have 20 per cent of children leaving primary school unable to read. We have a severe recruitment and retention crisis, with a new curriculum that sees 'rigour' as a dirty word and reduces the number of qualifications available to our young people. Nothing in this budget gives me confidence that this will change.

The education budget has only received an increase of 1.5 per cent. Not only is this increase paltry against the 34 per cent increase into the central services budget, that money isn't spent on the things needed to help our children and young people achieve in school and get those qualifications that would truly transform their lives. We will fix education in Wales with a properly funded plan and give parents confidence that their children will have the opportunities to achieve and thrive in life.

Another foundation of enabling people to flourish is appropriate housing, but, under Labour, too many people can't afford decent homes in Wales. If we look at the social housing grant, Audit Wales have called for an additional £780 million just to develop the homes currently in the pipeline. This budget has allocated just £81 million to enable people to have their own home. There are issues with the number of houses being built more widely. Last year had the second lowest number of new home completions in Wales since records began, with average house building outputs—

Will you take an intervention, Sam?

—falling by 45 per cent since the 1990s. Certainly.

So you've listed your priorities, and I understand, from what I've heard, those priorities, but clearly they're not priorities for your Conservative Party, because your leader isn't here. If they were priorities, he wouldn't have put Donald Trump as the priority. So, where is your leader for the discussion today?

As the Member is aware, this is the draft budget debate. I'm the finance spokesperson for the Welsh Conservatives. I'm more than able to speak on behalf of the Welsh Conservatives in this Chamber here today.

A Government who is serious about enabling people to succeed would ensure building houses is a priority, and it's not a record of a successful Government. This draft budget shows that Cardiff Labour are doing nothing to tackle the problems of housing in front of us.

To finish, Llywydd, I am adamant that things don't have to be this way. Things can be better than 25 years of failed Labour orthodoxy, propped up by Plaid Cymru, time and time again. We could have a budget that would create the right environment to enable and empower people to provide for their family, to start a business, to pursue new ideas through study and the support of others. I would love for the Cabinet Secretary and First Minister to make substantive changes before the final budget comes, but I won't hold my breath, and if they don't, then get out of the way, allow us to lead and to make the changes to fix Wales. Thank you.

Well, the previous speaker may be able to speak on behalf of his party, but he certainly can't vote on behalf of the two missing Members, and certainly we're glad to be here to cast our vote for the people of Wales.

I would like to start by thanking all of the committees for their thorough scrutiny of this budget. I was pleased to hear the Cabinet Secretary acknowledging at the beginning of the debate how important that scrutiny process is. It's a vital one. It's a fundamental part of our democracy, and is obviously a cross-party process, and I very much hope to hear from the Cabinet Secretary today how the Government will reflect on these recommendations in drawing up the final budget, because I have to confess that I was disappointed to hear the First Minister's response earlier today to Rhun ap Iorwerth's fair questions on the draft budget, on the Finance Committee's report, and also his entirely fair request for an update on delivering a fair funding formula for Wales. These aren't party political questions. They are questions to which many people in Wales want answers, be they organisations, charities or businesses. And by attacking us, the First Minister, I'm afraid, is attacking them too.

Because, despite the rhetoric, and although this budget is probably an improvement on what we would have received from a Conservative Government, every independent analysis, every sector that is in crisis, demonstrates in stark terms that the draft budget is not going to lead to a bright future for Wales, as we were told when it was published. And rather than name calling and trying to bully Plaid Cymru into voting in favour of an inadequate budget when it comes to meeting the needs of the people of Wales, can we today have a mature discussion about the ongoing challenges facing Wales, because we haven't been fairly funded? And we should be recommitting, as a Senedd, to working together to ensure fair funding for Wales, along with the powers to enable us to manage our resources more effectively and here in Wales.

So, we've heard a lot about the so-called partnership in power, but beyond the rhetoric, it's clear that it's not delivering for Wales. The Tories set a very low bar in terms of funding for Wales. The fact that two Members are missing from their benches today, including the leader, tells you all you need to know about what they actually think of Wales. 

Would you take an intervention?

Yes.

You shouldn't be talking about 'partnerships in power'; you've been propping up the Labour Government here for three years. Would you accept some complicity in some of these processes here that we're debating today?

There was a co-operation agreement. Grown-up politics requires co-operation. It also requires turning up to vote on crucial votes. And if you are to take your role as opposition seriously, you turn up and vote on days like this.

So, whilst Labour may say, truthfully, that it is a better budget than we would have received under a Conservative UK Government, let's be clear that it remains inadequate, and that whoever is in charge of the keys of 10 Downing Street does not prioritise providing Wales with fair funding, despite all the promises that are made in the run-up to general elections, even on the issues where we've agreed as a Senedd that we should receive the funding—HS2 consequential.

So, what has the scrutiny process found? And I look forward to hearing from the chairs of the committees. Well, as we've heard, millions of pounds are being thrown towards short-term fixes in the health service, at the expense of investment in the preventive agenda. A local government settlement that doesn't mitigate the financial pressures the sector faces, which will lead to painful decisions across the nation in terms of council tax and the provision of public services on the ground. Our universities and our cultural institutions are having to cut jobs in their hundreds, and reduce what they deliver, and this isn't just impacting these organisations; it's impacting the Welsh economy. Charities and vital organisations in the third sector are truly on the brink, already making redundancies amongst dedicated staff after Westminster's damaging decision to increase employer national insurance contributions without assessing the implications of that for our public services.

There can be little surprise, therefore, that the Finance Committee came to exactly the same conclusion as us in terms of the draft budget's deficiencies. And bearing in mind the grave challenges facing our nation, including waiting lists that include 20 per cent of the entire population, a severe deterioration in educational standards, sectors like higher education and the arts facing major financial crises, and an economy that continues to underperform, it’s high time that the interests of the nation came before party interests, and that we all with one voice demand much better for Wales.

After all, how can the Government promise on the one hand a bright future for Wales, while acknowledging on the other that you won't have a clear idea of the true impact of the increase in national insurance until after the final vote on the budget? That's what the scrutiny work has demonstrated. We need to know how much funding is truly available to Wales, because that isn't currently clear. And how can you claim that the budget represents a generous settlement from your partners in power when you're having to deal with the fundamental unfairness of the Barnett formula being applied when deciding Treasury rebates for core public services, which will mean that Wales will lose out in comparison with England? And how can we talk about optimism when you have confirmed that the Government is not in a position to support third sector organisations that are now facing significant additional costs from April onwards, with several of them warning that they are likely to go to the wall?

The severe current circumstances call for a Government that is serious about offering long-term effective solutions, and it's evident from the scrutiny process that Wales doesn't currently have such a Government. So, in terms of the motions before us today, we will vote against the draft budget. We need fair funding for Wales; we need to be united in demanding that. Welsh Labour promised that for the people of Wales; that's why we will not be supporting the draft budget.

I would like to begin my contribution by reflecting on the detail that the Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee received to inform its scrutiny of the draft budget. The Welsh Government again reaffirmed its commitment to explore improving the level of information it provides about expenditure on justice-related activity. However, unfortunately, the information provided on the draft budget was less comprehensive than that provided in recent years. We therefore recommended that the Welsh Government should set out the work it has undertaken to date, and the work it intends to undertake in the future in this area.

We welcomed the additional resources that have been set out in the draft budget for justice transformation and constitutional reform. However, given that these additional resources appear to be modest, we recommended that the Welsh Government should provide further information on which workstreams these additional funds will support.

The committee also welcomed the increased allocation for the administration of the devolved tribunals. As a committee, we believe it is of fundamental importance to access to justice that the tribunals are properly resourced. We also recommended that important legislation to reform the Welsh tribunals should be introduced to the Senedd within a timescale that will enable it to be passed before the end of the sixth Senedd.

Finally, we reflected in our report the limited information the committee received this year on the Welsh Government’s programme to improve the accessibility of Welsh law. We found this to be regrettable, and have therefore asked the Welsh Government to explain why it has been unable to provide details on individual items of planned expenditure to support the programme, as it has been able to do in previous years. 

My view also on the budget: yet again, the Conservatives and Plaid Cymru are critical of the budget, but they are either incapable or just refuse to produce an alternative budget. They have the figures; they can produce one. If you produce a budget, then you cannot promise more money to everyone without removing it from elsewhere in the system. To help them, a suggestion: cap basic farm payments at £50,000. There are 380 farm businesses receiving between £50,000 and £100,000, and 60 receiving over £100,000. This could fund payments for poorer pensioners. I suggest those and other benefits, not just pension credits, should receive the winter fuel payments. Eleven million pounds is the cost of paying the winter fuel payments to pensioners receiving council tax reductions; this would benefit over 44,000 pensioners. And £5.4 million, the cost of paying the winter fuel payments to pensioners claiming housing benefit; this would benefit approximately 21,500 pensioners.

As a member of the Finance Committee, I disassociate myself from the press statement put out on behalf of the Finance Committee, which I did not see, never mind approve before publication. It bears a tenuous relationship to what was said in a balanced report, and it bears a tenuous relationship to what the Chair of finance said today, which was a balanced contribution. I didn't agree with all of it, but I think that's what you have in a committee, you have a balance coming out, but the press release was certainly not acceptable. Can I just say that if that's the way things are going to be, this is the last unanimous Finance Committee report that will be produced while I'm a member of the Finance Committee? I will not sign up to it when you see something going out in a press release that bears very little relationship to what was said in the committee.

Finally, what happens if we do not—[Interruption.] Finally, what happens if we do not agree a budget? What happens if a budget motion does not pass before 1 April of the upcoming fiscal year? Section 127 of the Government of Wales Act 2006 automatically takes effect. This would give the Welsh Government and directly funded bodies authority to spend resources, retain income and draw cash from the Welsh consolidated fund of 75 per cent of the limits approved in the previous year. This would cause serious problems for health boards. If a budget motion still was not passed by the end of July, up to 95 per cent of the previous fiscal year limit is deemed authorised. This means that the additional funding given to Wales in the Westminster budget would not be able to be spent. We'd end up having a budget that would be less than last year, rather than one that should be substantially more.

Local authorities and council tax budgets are based on figures expected from the Welsh Government as they're in the draft budget and the provisional local government settlement. If they don't have that, I think I can guarantee one thing: there'll be local authorities putting in a section 114 notice that they're no longer able to financially continue. We either pass the budget or we don't. If we can't pass the budget, a view my colleagues don't all agree with, but one I certainly do is, if we cannot pass the budget, let's have an election and let the electorate decide who it wants to run Wales.

This draft budget is littered with false economies, smoke and mirrors. Our charities and community organisations work with individuals and families from the ground up, delivering key services that improve lives, whilst also reducing demand on statutory services. However, despite his public support for prudent health and care services, with service professionals, service users and their communities working side by side to deliver solutions, and for inclusion, prevention and early intervention, this finance Secretary has delivered a statist folly of a draft budget, starving charitable and community service providers of resources and thereby generating far higher cost pressures for statutory service providers.

Operating in every Welsh health board, 16 charitable hospices provide essential care to more than 20,000 children and adults in Wales affected by terminal and life-limiting illnesses each year. Every hospice in Wales is forecasting a deficit for this financial year. A survey by Hospice UK found that over 20 per cent of Welsh hospices are reducing the number of in-patient beds or wider hospice services, and that 90 per cent of Welsh hospices agreed that cost-of-living pressures are highly likely to result in reduced support being available to the wider system, such as hospitals and care homes.

They're calling on the Welsh Government to urgently provide £5.9 million in-year funding to Welsh hospices to cover the impact of NHS pay rises on hospice staffing costs, stating that this is essential to safeguard the immediate future of hospice services in Wales and the vital care they provide, pending a longer term sustainable arrangement. Although they welcome the Welsh Government's commitment to allocate an additional £3 million in recurrent funding in the draft budget, they state that this figure cannot be described as sustainable, considering it will quickly be cancelled out by national insurance and minimum wage increases of £1.8 million, and the expected impact on hospice staffing costs of future 'Agenda for Change' increases.

Shelter Cymru state that while they join sector colleagues in celebrating the £21 million uplift to the housing support grant in this draft budget, the homelessness prevention grant is allocated cash-flat funding, which would represent two consecutive years of real-term cuts in funding for homelessness prevention through this. They're clear that the impact of this draft budget, alongside the additional pressure from the increased cost of national insurance changes, would require a £70,000 saving, directly impacting staffing and their ability to help people, with an estimated 360 fewer households able to access their expert advice services. Cymorth Cymru and Community Housing Cymru state that 81 per cent of homelessness support providers are running services at a deficit, and the providers say they need around a 9 per cent budget increase just to cover national insurance changes.

Homelessness and rough-sleeping charity the Wallich added that they still await guidance from the Welsh Government on how organisations such as theirs delivering statutory services on behalf of local authorities will be supported in addressing the unexpected additional expenditure regarding the increase to employer national insurance contributions and record levels of demand. This increase is causing genuine concern across the sector.

Highlighting the potentially catastrophic consequences of the UK autumn budget for health and social care, non-profit Care Forum Wales has referred to the finance Secretary's past description of social care as the scaffold that holds up the NHS and stated that they need a commitment to building the long-term costs into a national fee toolkit to calculate a fair cost of care. The NSPCC have stated that ensuring that early intervention and prevention programmes are fully resourced should be a greater priority for the Welsh Government and asked the Welsh Government to consider what steps they can take to help mitigate the impact of the UK Government's decision to increase employer national insurance contributions, which will raise costs for third sector organisations.

Mental health and addiction charity Adferiad told me that the rise in national insurance will cost them £600,000 a year. Without mitigation, they will have to let staff go and reduce services. Tenovus Cancer Care states that the effect of the Welsh Government's draft budget and the UK budget will be fewer support services for people affected by cancer, adding that without any mitigation from the increased costs associated with employer national insurance contributions, the services they provide and their long-term sustainability will be jeopardised.

On issue after issue, this draft budget is throwing mud at the wall whilst digging up the wall's foundations. Rather than delivering efficiencies and saving money, this dumb budgeting will generate inefficiencies, higher public service costs and entirely avoidable social injustices. Diolch yn fawr.

I am very pleased to be able to contribute to this debate as Chair of the Climate Change, Environment and Infrastructure Committee. This year, due to changes in the structure of the Welsh Government, the committee heard oral evidence from two Cabinet Secretaries and we received written evidence from two other Cabinet Secretaries. The two Cabinet Secretaries who appeared before the committee were the Cabinet Secretary for climate change and the Cabinet Secretary for transport.

Firstly, on the portfolio of the Cabinet Secretary for climate change, there were several issues that merit further consideration. The committee's recent report on nature highlights the ongoing decline of nature and the need for the Welsh Government to accelerate action to address it. If the Welsh Government is to meet its domestic and global biodiversity commitments, including to effectively protect and manage 30 per cent of Wales's land and seas by 2030, then clearly it must prioritise investment in nature.

As a committee, we are not disputing the fact that the Welsh Government is funding some really positive programmes and initiatives to support nature recovery. But as we all know here in the Chamber, Wales, along with the rest of the UK, is facing a significant nature funding gap, and addressing that gap will require an increase in Government funding, as well as a ramping up of private investment, which has its part to play.

The Local Places for Nature programme is a critical source of funding to support delivery of on-the-ground action for nature and has, to date, delivered multiple positive outcomes. But there are concerns, because there has been a reduction in programme funding for 2025-26, which clearly concerns the committee. We’ve asked the Cabinet Secretary to explain how he intends to work with delivery partners to mitigate the impact of that funding reduction. We've also asked him to ensure that any additional funding that may be made available to him during the course of the year is used to address the shortfall in programme funding.

Turning to waste, we have long awaited the introduction of a deposit-return scheme in Wales. It's a key part of delivering the Welsh Government's ambitions towards a circular economy. The Cabinet Secretary announced late last year that he intends to introduce a bespoke deposit-return scheme, the scope of which will go beyond the planned UK scheme to encompass glass as well. But there are outstanding questions about how this will impact overall costs, and how these costs will subsequently be met. The committee has asked for clarity on this, and we’ll be watching closely to make sure that the financial and practical challenges don’t lead to further delays in implementation.

Moving on to the transport portfolio, the transition to corporate joint committees, or the CJCs as we say in shorthand, taking responsibility for regional transport planning presents significant challenges, and there’s a real concern that CJCs don’t yet have the necessary resources, staff or expertise to fully deliver on these responsibilities.

One area of political concern—particular concern; and, maybe, political concern—is active travel. With funding integrated into regional transport plans, there is a risk that it’ll deprioritise that area of funding in favour of other transport initiatives. The absence of ring-fencing only adds to that risk, in our view. The Cabinet Secretary told us that some local authorities are spending between 80 and 90 per cent of active travel grants on consultancy fees. That in itself raises serious questions about value of money and local authorities’ ability to manage projects effectively.

Meanwhile, in the rail sector, there remain issues around transparency. Fifty-four million pounds have been reallocated from within the transport main expenditure group to the core Valleys lines project, but as a committee we have no idea who the losers are as a result of that trade-off, and we’ve asked the Cabinet Secretary to clarify some of those budgetary decisions.

Finally, we have to address the issue of bus services. The Cabinet Secretary has invested significant amounts into keeping services running, but there are still concerns from key stakeholders, such as the Confederation of Passenger Transport, that it’s nowhere near enough to maintain services as we transition to the new system of bus franchising.

Wales has lagged behind the rest of the UK in bus passenger recovery following the pandemic, but we still don’t have a clear analysis of why that is happening, nor do we have a clear plan for how the proposed franchise model will tackle these challenges. If we are to build a reliable and sustainable bus network, then we need to fully understand the underlying causes of declining passenger numbers and take evidence-based action to reverse those trends.

There are 46 recommendations in the committee report, and I think that reflects how wide-ranging the committee’s remit is. I see the Cabinet Secretary looking at me. This reflects the committee’s remit and reflects the fact that we are scrutinising four Cabinet Secretaries. But our role is to scrutinise, and I thank, in concluding, the clerking and research teams of the committee for their support, and also the members of the committee. There are only six of us, and we are expected to scrutinise a significant amount of work. So, I look forward to the response of the Cabinet Secretary and the responses of all the Cabinet Secretaries that we've scrutinised during the course of this report. Thank you.

I was so pleased to see money going back into public services following the UK Government elections. I know that both Labour Governments are working together to rebuild the services that we rely on. I understand that UK Labour are having to fix a mess left behind by the Tories following over a decade of public service cuts, fiscal mismanagement, compounded by spiralling inflation and a failure to grow our economy. All the harm cannot be undone in one budget and we need continuing investment back into public services over future years from the UK Treasury.

Public services are one of our biggest employers and they keep us safe and healthy, as well as being the building blocks of our economy. Councils have been decimated by the Tories. Forty per cent of jobs have been lost since 2010, with massive real-term cuts in funding, and councils need more because of inflationary pressures and more reliance on services, especially social care. I’m hoping that an uplift in the funding floor will be achieved to help those that find themselves regularly low funded, such as the ones in north Wales. To realise social housing building plans, registered social landlords and councils need long-term funding plans going forward. 

And finally, to have capital funding that we really needed to build was such a relief, 250 times more than the previous year. I hope now that some can be put aside for that building work of the Royal Alexandra that we've all been calling for, once the detailed financial costing has been presented to the Welsh Government in the next few months. I know the problem cannot be fixed overnight, but the real-terms uplift in the budget is the first step to rebuilding local government and, I am pleased to say, rebuilding our highways. I'm pleased to see funding going to maintenance of our locally maintained highways as well as the strategic road network. Councils need that funding because of conflicting other pressures on their budget.

It's been raised with me that those with low reserves will be unable to borrow for the £60 million prudential borrowing fund, so I would like the Cabinet Secretary in his summing up to explain how the £5 million revenue will cover the cost of borrowing, to reassure them. I believe that that will cover the cost of borrowing for the next 30 years, so it would give that reassurance. Thank you. I welcome this budget.

Well, once again I rise to speak on the principles of your Welsh budget given the profound impact it will have on my constituents and, of course, the people of Wales. This is not a budget for growth. It does nothing to safeguard our health service, our education sector, our small businesses, our social care—in fact, anything, really; any of the services that you as a Welsh Labour Government have been responsible for over the last 26 years. The latest figures on business births and closures in Wales reveal a worrying trend. In 2023, the number of active enterprises fell by 2,305, a 2.2 per cent decrease. This is really saddening.

Are you aware of the state of our NHS? I'm sure you are. We, the Welsh Conservatives, raise the failings here week after week after week. Just last month, the Royal College of Nursing released a damning report on corridor care, and I can tell you, two weeks ago I witnessed first-hand nurses and junior doctors trying to work in maxed-out hospital wards, acute ailment hospital wards with trolley beds in corridors—disgusting—sleeping in hallways. Some are forced to manage their own personal care behind makeshift screens. Morale on these wards has hit rock bottom, with nurses breaking down before our eyes, desperately pleading for your help.

And yet you want to spend £5 million on tackling climate change. How in one's right mind is this acceptable? Even the Rt Hon Ed Miliband is jeopardising—[Interruption.] Yes, well I am the spokesperson for climate change, Cabinet Secretary, and the amount of money that you are wasting now in this portfolio is more than obvious. Ed Miliband is jeopardising our energy security by reportedly banning new drilling licences, overruling his own officials at a time when energy dependence is vital to UK sovereignty. His decision, your decision—your Labour decision—when our country is now at huge risk of global energy insecurity. Regulators were expected to approve new drilling soon, but Mr Miliband's interventions threaten our long-term stability. It is clear that your party are putting us at risk.

The Welsh Government claims it is one of its toughest budgets, yet it plans to pour even more money into an active travel scheme. And I have to tell you, the Active Travel (Wales) Act 2013 when it came in was one of my favourite pieces of legislation that I really wanted to succeed. Well, I'm afraid it's not working. I welcome the review of the active travel Act and hopefully it will finally address its failure to engage the people of Wales. Despite £218 million spent since 2018, cycling rates remain stuck at 6 per cent with no improvement. Why is this Government so fixated on cyclists, so against our road users, while ignoring rural communities where children can't even walk to school? And now they want to—[Interruption.] Oh, go on then.

I'm just a bit puzzled by your statements. You said the active travel Act was one of your favourite pieces of legislation, and that's about facilitating walking and cycling. You then said the Government is obsessed with promoting cycling, which you think is a bad thing. You're talking in riddles.

I am not talking in riddles. At the end of the day, we first met when you worked for Sustrans, and it has to be said you have driven your own personal agenda through. [Interruption.] Oh yes, you have. At the end of the day, active travel means walking, cycling, scootering. It doesn't just mean cycling and it shouldn't be at the expense of our road users and our drivers, people seeing parts of their road disappear and yet no increase whatsoever in the use of cycling.

The climate change committee—we have noted that Wales is at great risk of missing its own emission targets and biodiversity commitments. Worse still, there's absolutely little or no confidence in how green policies can be harnessed to drive economic growth, job creation and investment opportunities. All the schemes that the climate change budget is going towards, we don't have the skills in place. You're putting the cart before the horse. The state of Wales is diminishing economically and environmentally, and you can shake your head.

Janet, you need to conclude now, please.

Yes. We witness here today, after 26 years, the same level of indifference from the Welsh Labour Government, and no wonder they're shouting from the Plaid Cymru benches—

Thank you, Janet. 

—because you've been in partnership with them for those years. [Interruption.] You were even in Government with them.

Thank you, Janet. Delyth Jewell.

Thank you, Dirprwy Lywydd. I will be speaking in my role as Chair of the Culture, Communications, Welsh Language, Sport and International Relations Committee. In the time available to me, I will discuss some of the key issues that arose during our scrutiny of the draft budget. I'd like to say at the outset that we're grateful to the Government and civil servants for the information that they provided to us. We've made a number of recommendations, but we do recognise and appreciate the work that's gone into this.  

I’ll begin with culture and sport. There is an issue that comes up time and again in the evidence that we as a committee hear and the recommendations we make, namely that we need a fuller consideration of the preventative value of sport and culture, areas where you can invest and actually, as a result, save money. The evidence that we heard recently on the impact of the cuts in these areas is striking. Underfunding in these areas over years by the Welsh Government has left culture and sport in a very vulnerable position indeed. There are so many centres closing or facing crisis; that word came up clearly in the evidence that we heard, and that's certainly what we are hearing from the sector.

There have also been concerns raised with us on the impact of the changes to national insurance contributions from employers. We certainly recognise the point made by the Minister that the draft budget is a step in the right direction—we certainly acknowledge that—but when bodies such as the Arts Council of Wales uses a term like ‘crisis’ and the Government doesn't agree, then we feel that we must express concern as to whether the Government appreciates the extent of the pressures that these sectors are facing. But our hope as a committee is that the Government will take the opportunity that has been provided by our recent report on the effect of funding cuts to confirm whether the Government shares our aspiration for per capita expenditure in Wales to increase until it corresponds to the spending in other European nations. 

Turning to the Welsh language, the Cabinet Secretary for Finance and Welsh Language described the proposed increase as an opportunity to recover some of the ground lost last year following the flat budget, and we agree with that. We would, however, welcome more clarity as to how the Government will monitor, evaluate and report on the impact of the funding allocations in the context of delivery of the Cymraeg 2050 target, and how that can be attained.

And finally, Dirprwy Lywydd, to turn to international relations, we do regret the First Minister's decision not to attend an oral evidence session. Unfortunately, this, combined with the absence of some necessary information in written evidence, has meant that, once again, our committee is not in a position to scrutinise with any confidence the Welsh Government's planned spend on international activity. In our report, we have been obliged to ask for information like when key documents, like the international strategy delivery plan, will be published; when details of funding allocations will be available to the Senedd and, indeed, to strategic delivery partners; and how such allocations will affect the Welsh Government's ability to deliver intended outcomes. Such information should have been made available as a matter of course to inform our scrutiny.

Now, we do of course note the First Minister's decision not to give oral evidence on the draft budget; that is consistent with the approach her predecessors have chosen, of course. It is our view as a committee, though—and we think it's fundamental—that if a First Minister chooses to take on policy responsibilities, they should make themselves available to be held to account for those responsibilities, and that it's a matter for the Senedd and not the Welsh Government to determine how to conduct effective scrutiny on that.

Now, there is—and we do have a hope here as well—going to be another opportunity in this Senedd for the Welsh Government to engage effectively in this scrutiny for the draft budget proposals when it comes to international relations. We do hope and we expect that there will be a change in approach next year on that, because this area deserves the same level of scrutiny as others. Diolch yn fawr.

I'm speaking on behalf of the Equality and Social Justice Committee. Last year's budget, we appreciate, was enormously challenging, and social justice faced the deepest cuts of any area. So, we all welcome the £1.5 billion uplift from the Welsh Government's revised baseline for 2024-25. Social justice spending must be seen in the context of budget cuts in previous years and the increased financial pressures and increased need suffered by the most vulnerable. The cost-of-living crisis faced by many families has not gone away.

The finance Secretary said that this is a budget that increases spending most of all on the 20 per cent of our population that has the least, and hurrah to that. However, in many areas, the budget fails to specify how it plans to target spending decisions, nor the potential benefit on the poorest. The Welsh Government's own analysis of impact says that spending on public services in the coming year will be highest for the second poorest cohort, not the very poorest, so those between 20 per cent and 40 per cent of income. So, given the Welsh Government's commitment to reducing inequalities, we would like the Government to set out how it reconciles the evidence from the distributional analysis that it would benefit the poorest 20 per cent to 40 per cent, compared with the finance Secretary's comments that it's going to be targeted on the very poorest.

Turning to the voluntary sector, we welcome the increased funding to support the voluntary sector. However, will the increase be sufficient to manage the burgeoning demand and increased costs, including the rise in national insurance contributions? The finance Secretary has provided an estimate of the cost of the increased national insurance contributions for the public sector. We would appreciate the Welsh Government setting out its estimate of the additional direct cost to the voluntary sector of the changes in their employers national insurance contributions as well. We do need to understand whether the welcome increase in funding that the voluntary sector will get will enable them to manage their way through the financial impact particularly of this rise in national insurance contributions, as well as energy and other overheads. We know the Government values the role of the voluntary sector, and we need to make sure that it can manage its way through this, rather than disappear from our landscape. Some parts of the voluntary sector may be able to rely on the further contribution of volunteers—it's in the title, after all; others are doing work that mirrors the work of the public sector, where that is much more difficult.

As we've already heard, the cost-of-living crisis is relentless, and we want to approach the need for uprating Welsh benefits. We very much welcome the increase in support for people, for example the discretionary assistance fund, to ensure that those who are struggling to pay their bills or in other respects need additional help in order not to fall into penury, basically, and become homeless. We also applaud the increase in the income threshold for the educational maintenance allowance, which we appreciate is a really important contribution to ensuring that young people 16-18 are staying on in education. But we noted that there was no increase proposed for the income threshold for free school meals for secondary school children. Obviously, primary school children are all able to benefit from free school meals regardless of income. But the free-school-meals entitlement in terms of income threshold has been frozen for five years, and that means that there are likely to be a lot more secondary school children not getting a free meal, even though their families are struggling to feed them. So, this is not in the budget for the Cabinet Secretary for Social Justice. So, I was very grateful to be able to discuss this with the Cabinet Secretary for Education by joining the children and young people's committee on 16 January.

You need to conclude now, please, Jenny.

Okay. I just want to say that I understand that the Cabinet Secretary is very keen to extend the school-meals threshold in secondary schools, but that it hasn't been possible to do that because of the link between the provision of free school meals and other passported things like the pupil development grant and the school essentials grant. This is a really important issue. We are absolutely in favour of simplifying the benefits system so that people get what they're entitled to—

Thank you, Jenny.

—but if it's causing us an inability to be able to target it on poor children, then we obviously have a further conversation to be had.

Can I refer Members to my declaration of interest as a farmer? For too long, successive Labour Governments have failed to take issues that affect the rural community seriously enough. Yes, the rural affairs budget has seen an increase, and that is welcome, and I'm pleased the £238 million has been secured for the basic payment scheme. That said, the increase to the portfolio this year falls well short of the £62 million-worth of cuts that the area has seen over recent years. Now, Welsh Government, and indeed some Labour Members here, should never forget how valuable the farming community is to both the Welsh economy and Welsh culture, yet when I speak to farmers and rural communities, they just don't feel the Government has a proper understanding of rural life and the very real challenges farmers face.

Would you take an intervention?

I was waiting for that. Yes.

What is it that Huw Irranca-Davies has not done to engage with farmers? I would have thought he'd gone over and above to engage with farmers on the sustainable farming scheme.

I'm not critical of the Cabinet Secretary, I'm critical of the Welsh Government in 25 years. So, yes, there's still a conversation to be had on improving things, for sure.

As I said, farmers don't feel like the Government here has got their back, yet it's well evidenced that there's a £9 return to the economy for every £1 invested in the industry. Very few other sectors can brag about that level of return. It is therefore vital that the Welsh Government listens to the voices of the farming community and ensures that our rural communities are supported, enabling the industry to plan and invest with confidence. A fundamental step to this end is the need for the Government to disclose its planned payment schedule for the emerging SFS. This is fundamental to enable the industry to plan. Welsh policies have to provide certainty and stability, unlike the Chancellor's proposed inheritance tax raid on farmers that will not only threaten the future of hundreds of family farms, but, ironically, it will have a direct impact on the willingness of farmers to engage with initiatives like the sustainable farming scheme and others. What is the point of investing in your business if you will only be hit with huge taxes as a result?

There's no doubt the country has been hoodwinked to believe things would be better with Labour at either end of the M4, but that simply hasn't been the case for hundreds of thousands of people, and many business and business sectors in Wales, including transport and those delivering infrastructure. In these areas, I welcome the proposed uplift. It's needed, as it's clear that successive Welsh Governments have not got to grips with the transport needs of Wales, particularly in rural communities. Past policies, such as Labour’s road-building freeze and the default 20 mph speed limit, have taken their toll, as has the inadequate and poor transport infrastructure that blights many areas of Wales, slowing the country down and holding the economy back. Good connectivity is the lifeblood of any economy, so long-term investment in our infrastructure is needed and fundamental for a modern and greener society.

But not only do our communities and businesses need good infrastructure, our businesses need the two labour Governments to enable growth. Yet Labour’s employer national insurance increases will do the opposite, negatively impacting on growth, jobs and future pay. Look at the transport operators. According to the Confederation of Passenger Transport’s calculations, the changes will cost an additional £800 to £1,000 per employee each year, with early evidence showing the impact will be greater in Wales. These levels of additional financial burden will result in poorer services to the Welsh people. Sadly, we're not seeing the Welsh Government here willing to stand up against the damaging policies of Keir Starmer's Government. There is no better example of this, as we've heard in the Chamber already today, than their willingness to accept a mere £400 million in consequentials from HS2, after repeatedly asking in this place for billions. Wales is being short changed and let down. It's clear, Dirprwy Lywydd, Labour are failing to deliver on the priorities of the Welsh people with this budget. Diolch.

Amongst the numerous challenges currently facing our beleaguered health system, our broken model of social care is one of the most existential. Placing the sector on a sustainable footing, properly integrated with secondary care, is imperative if we're to secure the future of the NHS as we know it over the coming decades. But, as the report of the Finance Committee rightly highlights, this Government's propensity for firefighting is inherently compromising this crucial agenda, and the evidence that has been heard over—

Will you take an intervention?

Go on. Yes, go for it.

Thank you. Would you not agree, would you not agree, that, over the past 26 years that Labour have been in Government—there has been a period when you were in Government—these problems haven't come overnight? Do you not feel culpable for the fact, during your time of propping up the Welsh Labour Government, that you, in your budget spending priorities, you've supported what we've got facing us now? Do you accept that culpability or not?

No, and you're going to let the draft budget through today because you haven't got your full complement of Members here. So, you'll be culpable for the Government's budget today.

The evidence that has been heard over the course of this budget scrutiny session clearly corroborates the assessment I mentioned. For example, while the Welsh Government has allocated £140 million of directed funding for social care in this budget, this pales in comparison to the Welsh Local Government Association's estimate that demand on social care services accounts for £223 million of the £555 million-worth of spending pressures facing local authorities over the coming financial year. Meanwhile, the staggeringly short-sighted decision by their partners in power to increase employer national insurance contributions has thrown local government arrangements with relevant organisations in the third and voluntary sectors into complete disarray.

The reality is, of course, that more money could have been made available to invest in social care if it wasn't for the Government having to throw ever-increasing portions of the Welsh budget at clearing up problems of their own making with waiting lists. And this brings us to another regrettable consequence of this firefighting—the chronic neglect of the preventative agenda. As I mentioned during the initial budget debate at the end of last year, the cuts in funding to organisations such as ASH Cymru reflect broader trends that have left the health system in Wales teetering, on a false economy, with ever-diminishing returns in terms of outcomes.

I think the fact that the First Minister continually refers to the record number of NHS contacts in Wales as something to be proud of speaks volumes in this respect. It's a damning indictment of Labour's legacy of managing sickness, rather than keeping people healthier for longer. And as is shown by this budget, they have neither the vision nor the wherewithal to plot a course to a brighter future for our health system.

Will you take an intervention?

I've just finished, but happy to.

I'm pleased—. Whilst you've outlined clearly what you think should be done, what I'm really interested in is your alternative budget. Have you got an alternative budget that you're going to produce today so that at least, if you're going to vote against our budget, we could have a look at your budget?

It's Labour's budget, and, if we could see all of the lines in that budget, then we could provide you—[Interruption.] So, let us get into Government next time, lead Government, and then you'll see how to run a Government properly.

I will speak as Chair of the Local Government and Housing Committee, and I'd like to start by thanking the Welsh Local Government Association and the Cabinet Secretary for Housing and Local Government for attending the committee's evidence sessions. 

We heard that local authorities are still facing very challenging times. Despite the increase in the settlement, the recent 14 years of constrained public finance, as well as rising demand and costs, mean that they may have to cut services even further and increase council tax.

When there is pressure on budgets, Dirprwy Lywydd, as a committee we believe that preventative work is all-important and, unfortunately, often cut at those times. We would like to see prioritisation of funding for the longer term as much as possible, because we all know that investing in prevention can deliver efficiencies. We feel that more could be done to drive transformational change in service delivery, possibly through earmarked funding from Welsh Government, where it believes that will help drive change in high-demand areas such as social care.

There are good examples across Wales of transforming services, but it is unclear how effective local authorities are in sharing good practice. Corporate joint committees could be a vehicle to facilitate collaboration. But we have concerns that they are not delivering on their intended purpose and that local authorities are not engaging with them as they should. The Welsh Government needs to assess this and provide local authorities with more strategic direction to improve collaboration.

In our report, we urge the Welsh Government to provide a funding floor in the final budget.

Will you take an intervention?

Yes. Yes.

Thank you. Thanks. I very much support those calls for a funding floor. It's something that I've raised in this place previously, particularly for those local authorities, like my own in Flintshire, that, despite the increase in funding that we've seen from the Welsh Government, still find themselves at the lower end of that league table. But that's in the here and now. What consideration has the committee given to looking at the longer term sustainable funding of local services, so whether that's through the funding formula mix we've heard mentioned here time and time again, but more broadly in terms of ensuring that sustainability and thinking creatively moving forward so that we can make sure those services stay in place long into the future?

Thank you for that. As a committee, we do believe that it may be necessary for Welsh Government, along with local government, of course, to consider a more wide-ranging look at the local government funding formula and particularly current work that's going on, which I think will look at factors like rurality in greater depth, and indeed those local authorities with an older and ageing population in particular, in comparison to the case across Wales. So, we do believe that there is merit in having that more widespread and deeper look at the local government funding formula.

We're also concerned as a committee about the impact of the UK Government's changes to national insurance contributions on local authorities' revenue, particularly as it is unclear how much funding they will receive to cover costs and when they will receive it. Of course, a number of councils outsource their services and rely on third sector organisations to provide key support in areas such as housing, social care and education. Local authorities then are understandably concerned about their ability to deliver front-line services if the funding from the UK Treasury will only cover directly employed council staff. 

John, thank you for taking an intervention. With regard to the issue of national insurance, you'll remember that, in the committee meeting, I quoted figures that I'd received from three local authorities about the impact of the increase in employer contributions in terms of their budgets and the sums that they will need to find on top of other pressures—£2 million for one council for internal employees, £2.5 million for outsourced work; a second council saying £5.4 million for internal payments in terms of the increase, £2.8 million for the increase in commissioned work; the third council stated that it's £8 million in addition that they will have to find for the increase in the contributions internally, and £3 million for the outsourced commissioned work. I quote those figures again today because they do underline the seriousness of the situation and I draw attention to recommendations 6 and 7—

It needs to be an intervention, not another speech, please. 

I draw your attention to recommendations 6 and 7 in the report. I'm sure that you would agree that that needs specific attention from the Cabinet Secretary. Thank you.

Well, thank you very much, Siân Gwenllian. 

As a committee, I think that, with regard to these matters, what we do say as well is that local authorities need clarity to be able to plan and set their budgets by March, and I hope that that will be forthcoming. 

Dirprwy Lywydd, in terms of housing, we heard that, again, uncertainty around increased national insurance contributions is a real issue for the housing sector. And, again, we have third sector organisations involved in the way that I've just described with regard to local government. We believe that Welsh Government should make further representations to the UK Government about the impact of increasing employers’ national insurance contributions on third sector organisations in Wales and update the Senedd before the final budget debate.

Having a safe home, of course, is absolutely crucial, and adequate funding for housing services is crucial to prevent and alleviate homelessness, but also to reduce pressures elsewhere. Forming a budget is a balancing act, but, given that investing in housing results in wider savings, we would have liked a higher percentage of the overall budget allocated to housing. It is critical that the Welsh Government takes account of the wider preventative benefits of investing in housing when deciding on budget allocations. 

We remain concerned at the number of people still living in temporary accommodation and the continued pressure put on local authorities by this demand. It appears to us that, apart from the welcome housing support grant uplift, the settlement for homelessness prevention is cash flat, and that is concerning at a time of rising homelessness and rough-sleeping.

Our report notes underspends in the building safety capital and revenue allocations for last year, and we’ve asked for an explanation for these—[Interruption.]—diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd—and details of the expected spend for the current year. Dirprwy Lywydd, we would be grateful for a full written response from the Cabinet Secretary to the recommendations and conclusions in our report.

It's a pleasure to take part in this debate tonight, and I've enjoyed listening to the contributions so far, although I don't agree with some of them. The extra £1.7 billion allocated to Wales in the Chancellor's autumn budget comes from £40 billion in tax rises, which my colleague Peter Fox has correctly identified is on a maxed-out credit card. Before digging into this draft budget, it is important to address the broader economic picture across the UK and the UK Government's budget, which has provided the additional moneys to the Welsh Government.

Rachel Reeves's budget included £40 billion in tax rises and another £32 billion in borrowing, and the burden of that taxation is already showing its effect on the economy, with all indicators in the UK economy pointing to recession on the horizon. And if we do go into recession, the Chancellor will not get the £40 billion extra in tax revenue she is expecting, but her spending must stay the same, which means that her borrowing will go through the roof. We are facing a situation, therefore, where interest rates will have to go up to attract money into Government coffers, and private investors will avoid the UK because we have a debt burden we can't fulfil, an economy in recession and likely sterling in freefall; it has already fallen 7 per cent against the dollar since the Labour Party took office in July. So, it’s a debt spiral we are potentially facing as a result of the UK Government’s budget. We have the highest debt and tax as a percentage of GDP since world war two, so we should not be celebrating that extra bit of money off the backs of small businesses, the farming community and the elderly, who have been stripped of their winter fuel payments. And I’ve mentioned previously in this Chamber, and constituents come to me in dismay about the state of their high streets and the type of traders replacing the old ones, and I’ve raised their concerns in the Senedd, and Labour Members have responded with phony outrage and disingenuous claims of not recognising the legitimate concerns of my constituents.

Will you take an intervention?

Yes. Please.

I very much recognise it, but if you could stop Amazon delivering, if you could stop DPD delivering, and you could stop people ordering online, high streets would be a lot healthier.

I agree somewhat there, Mike, and I know you spoke yourself about my next line, which is: many high streets across Wales are now replaced with unsightly pop-up barbershops, vape shops, and other types of high-street traders that are identified by the National Crime Agency as being significantly more likely to be linked to organised crime. People are angry about high-quality local shops closing on their high streets and being replaced with more undesirable businesses, and those are legitimate concerns that I am unapologetic about raising in this Chamber on behalf of my constituents. I’m sure that every constituency and towns and villages across Wales and, indeed, the UK, have experienced those similar issues somewhat.

The local government settlement is at 4.3 per cent on average, but like many other areas that have received more funding, this will be swallowed up by the national insurance rise made by the Government at the other end of the M4. So, if the public believes that the additional funding is going to translate into better public services, waiting times coming down and potholes being filled, then I have some bad news for them: the additional funding will go straight back to the Treasury and will not benefit the people of Wales.

Despite tourism also receiving an additional allocation, it comes at a time when the tourism sector is being significantly impacted by Welsh Government policies, such as 20 mph, as we’ve heard in this debate so far, and the Visitor Accommodation (Register and Levy) Etc. (Wales) Bill. We believe that this funding should be going towards supporting the beleaguered tourism sector. Sadly, the Welsh Government scoffs at any suggestion of supporting businesses instead of public bodies. [Interruption.] I'll take an intervention, Joyce, if you'd like. I've got plenty of time.

That’s very kind of you to invite me, but the point is, I just was wondering about the contradiction between bringing in money through a tourism tax and helping the sector. I just couldn’t see why you can’t see it. I live in a high tourist area; I know the expense that’s incurred every single year in terms of providing additional services for the very welcome tourists, but not so welcome when it comes to the council tax.

So, could you categorically say that that money raised will go directly to where it needs to be? Because I look at other taxes that are raised in terms of council tax in Wales and the premium on holiday lets—[Interruption.]

I would ask Members, please, to allow him to respond to the intervention, because we are well beyond the time and I’ve got several speakers still wanting to speak. So, Gareth.

Thank you. With the 182-day rule, why therefore is the money not being spent on filling potholes, like I’ve said, on bringing down waiting times? Why are our councils—? Why is Denbighshire council in my constituency coming out all the time saying they’re nearly bankrupt? Why isn’t that money being replicated and spent in those areas where it’s needed? It’s just sitting in Government coffers and nobody receives the benefit of those increased streams of revenue, unfortunately.

So, sadly, the Welsh Government scoffs at any suggestion of supporting businesses instead of public bodies, so, overall, there is very little in this budget to reassure my constituents and small businesses, which are the backbone of the Welsh economy and are currently on their knees. So, I urge the Welsh Government to include more measures to help small businesses across Wales. Thank you.

There is an undeniable gap between rhetoric and reality when it comes to this draft budget and, for me, given the impact of 14 years of Tory Westminster austerity, which has caused such hardship for our vulnerable citizens and put thousands of people into poverty and trapped them there, the finding of the Equality and Social Justice Committee on which I sit is really concerning, I think, because contrary to the finance Minister's assertion that this is a draft budget that protects our most vulnerable, by increasing spending in sectors that he argued would particularly benefit the 20 per cent of the population with the least, this budget doesn't in fact do that and doesn't, I feel, focus enough on helping those with the least. While there's been a small increase for social justice in this draft budget, this must be set in the context of both the deep cuts we saw in previous years, increased pressures and increased demand and need. We heard that the impact of additional costs for the voluntary sector in Wales, arising from changes to employers' national insurance contributions, is going to be extremely damaging to those very organisations who have helped our poorest and most vulnerable through those terrible years of austerity. The uplift won't be sufficient to offset that.

Welsh Government is, yet again, having to fix the holes in the safety net that are being made by Westminster policies, and this budget isn't able to achieve that effectively. We've heard no condemnation from the Welsh Government of the damaging impact of UK Labour Government decisions relating to support for our most vulnerable, such as the continuation of the two-child benefit cap and the end of universal winter fuel payments for older people.

Last week, the Joseph Rowntree Foundation published its latest report on poverty. Child poverty is rising across most of the UK, and Wales is set to have the highest rate. By 2029, over a third of children in Wales—34.4 per cent—will be living in poverty, worse than England, worse than Northern Ireland. Only one part of the UK is doing better, Scotland, and they've voted this afternoon on their budget to mitigate that two-child cap, to effectively scrap it in Scotland. They've mitigated the failure of Westminster Governments, both blue and red, to drive up living standards through the benefits system.

We've got to remember that this isn't just about statistics. We talk about statistics today and millions, these are real children, real families and this is the future of Wales, because we can't talk about closing the attainment gap in schools without talking about child poverty. We can't talk about improving health outcomes without tackling child poverty. We can't build a stronger economy when a third of our children are growing up in hardship, and this budget fails to address the issue that should be at the top of the First Minister's priorities. That it isn't, as evidenced by reports and by the Equality and Social Justice Committee report on this draft budget, is an indictment of this Government's budget and its inability to ensure fairness for Wales.

I'll be speaking today in my capacity as the Chair of the Children, Young People and Education Committee. Over the past 14 years, families, children and young people in Wales have faced significant challenges through no fault of their own. With cuts in public spending from Westminster among other factors, it's become harder to get the support they need and deserve, whether it's through youth services, local government or health services. These cuts have stretched resources thin, making it tougher for children and families to get ahead.

This year, like many others, the Children, Young People and Education Committee has spent a lot of time trying to understand how much the Welsh Government is spending on children's services. We weren't looking for exact figures, but wanted high-level indicators of how the budget will support children and young people's well-being. One key area where clarity is lacking is the absence of a child rights impact assessment of the draft budget. Without this, it's difficult to see how the proposed spending will directly benefit children.

We know that this draft budget comes off the back of one of the best settlements since devolution began, and the funding allocated by Welsh Government to public bodies reflects that. For example, over £10 billion to health boards, nearly £5 billion to local authorities, and almost £1 billion to the Commission for Tertiary Education and Research, Medr. This is substantial investment and will no doubt mean more support for children and young people, but we need more detail to confirm and measure this.

We've asked the Welsh Government to consider conducting a child rights impact assessment of the health MEG, on a trial basis, to improve transparency and accountability. The committee views the appointment of a new clinical lead for child health and the upcoming quality statement for children's health as very welcome news. We look forward to hearing the Welsh Government's response to our recommendations about how these initiatives can drive better outcomes for children and young people.

Another important issue is the growing waiting list for neurodevelopmental services. The Minister for Mental Health and Well-being recently indicated that, without additional intervention, the number of children on waiting lists could reach 61,000 by 2027. The Minister is right to recognise the critical role of education and the third sector in providing support, but these sectors also face their own funding and capacity limitations, which is why we welcome and will closely monitor the impact of the £13.7 million announced yesterday for neurodevelopmental services over the next two years.

According to the Cabinet Secretary for Health and Social Care, around 27 per cent of five-year-olds in Wales are overweight or obese. Some of the funding for the 'Healthy Weight: Healthy Wales' initiative will focus on children in 2025-26, which is encouraging, but there are still questions about the data and evidence behind the strategy. How will the success of this initiative be measured?

Childcare was an important area of scrutiny for us this year. The Minister for Children and Social Care told us that the Welsh Government is committed to full roll-out of Flying Start childcare to all two-year-olds, with £20 million allocated to support this initiative. However, there remains uncertainty about whether there will be enough funding to complete the final phase of the roll-out. We have requested a clear timeline and more information on any financial barriers that might affect this roll-out.

There are other critical issues affecting children in this draft budget, such as the planned replacement of regional education consortia and new local authority partnerships. This is a significant change, and the committee will conduct further work on this later in the year. Additionally, to echo my fellow committee Chairs, there are concerns about the impact of rising national insurance contributions on charities, which could affect front-line services that support children across Wales. While the draft budget includes positive initiatives for children and young people, several challenges remain and it's children who are most likely to bear the brunt of these challenges. Children and young people in Wales deserve a brighter future and we hope this budget will help deliver that.

I want to take a constructive look at the Welsh Government's draft budget for 2025-26, and I want to focus today on what this budget means for health and social care in Wales, and focus on three areas, as time doesn't allow me to go into more areas that I'd like to.

We can all agree that investment in our NHS is critical; it's just as important to ensure that the biggest budget in Government will deliver the improvements that patients and front-line staff so desperately need. The Government has announced an additional £610 million for health and social services, including £175 million for capital investment. This is a substantial commitment and I welcome any measures aimed at reducing waiting times, improving mental health services and strengthening social care. However, most of the investment will be going on pay and pressures within the system, and that's why it's our responsibility, as elected representatives, to ensure that any funding above pay and pressures is used as effectively as possible, and that it reaches areas where it will have the greatest impact.

One area that requires attention is women's health. The Government has allocated £3 million to establish women's health hubs across Wales, which is a positive step, but one that has already raised concerns amongst healthcare professionals and the Senedd's Health and Social Care Committee. The question I'd like to put to the finance Minister is: if it becomes clear that funding falls short, will the Government look to increase investment to meet demand if any in-year funding becomes available, to make sure that women get access to the treatment they need? And I say 'in-year funding' as I know that money doesn't grow on trees, and I know that funding is very limited.

One of the biggest issues in Wales today is NHS waiting times, and we all know that thousands of people in Wales are waiting too long for treatment. The Government has committed funding to address the backlog, but how will we know, as the Senedd, how health boards are spending this funding? What I want to see are clear, timely, measurable targets that show exactly how funding is being used, and how this funding is being used to improve outcomes for people across Wales. It simply cannot be enough just to allocate money and hope for the best; we must ensure, as this Senedd and Government, that that money is being used effectively. And I'll be calling for greater transparency and scrutiny of services in this matter.

One issue that has been raised by a lot of Members today is the increase of national insurance contributions, especially in our social care sector. I know that the Welsh Government have said that they will not provide any additional money for this, but I do think it is something that the Government needs to look at, because we are already hearing that some of our care homes across Wales are facing the potential of closure, and I don’t want to see that happen as it’ll put a lot of our vulnerable people at risk across Wales. And that’s why I think it’s very, very important that we have a clear answer from the Cabinet Secretary on this matter.

All these measures mean regular reporting on progress, clear benchmarking for success, and honest conversations about what is working and what is not working. We cannot allow a situation where millions of pounds of public money is poured into initiatives without proper oversight, only to find ourselves in the same position year after year where things aren’t getting better and public money is being wasted. The people of Wales deserve to see real improvements to healthcare, and it’s our job to ensure that happens.

Cabinet Secretary, I hope you’ll agree that none of these issues are party political. I think they’re about ensuring that the people of Wales get the best possible care. The reality is that our NHS is under immense strain, and if we are to tackle these challenges, as I said, we have to be honest about what’s working and what’s not working, and we have to be able to put our political differences aside to make sure that every £1 spent in this budget delivers the maximum benefit to patients and the public across Wales.

I’ll continue, Cabinet Secretary, to scrutinise this budget, to challenge the Government where necessary, and to work with colleagues across the Chamber to push for improvements. I do think we need to have a serious look in this Senedd at how we debate and scrutinise the budget, because the budget is £26 billion, and to allocate only a couple of hours a couple of times a year to look at the Welsh Government budget I don’t think does justice to the budget and I don’t think it does justice to the public, and I do think that scrutinising detailed policy outside of committee stages, actually, in this Chamber is much needed in this budget-setting process. Diolch, Deputy Presiding Officer.

We've heard the Welsh Government talk a great deal about delivery, about turning words into actions, but what I heard on the steps of the Senedd this afternoon from the UCU is that the Welsh Government is not delivering for our universities. We heard that staggering news last week about Cardiff University possibly making 400 people redundant. The accounts of the other universities published last week also paint a very concerning picture about their financial situation. Now, I'm afraid, I have to say this, that this is a very serious condemnation of the failure of the Government to put our universities on firm financial foundations. And in their great hour of need, they are failing to deliver. In reality, they are sitting on their hands in terms of their responsibility towards this sector, in the face of the fact that there are going to be hundreds of job losses over the next few months, and more courses will be lost.

Despite their dire financial predicament after three successive years of cuts to the HE sector, this draft budget doesn’t appear to offer any further investment to our universities. And despite the increase in tuition fees, this income will almost be entirely wiped out by the rise to the national insurance contributions and, therefore, it puts many of these institutions back to square one once again. University staff and students deserve better than this. Plaid Cymru believes that Wales needs a much fairer funding formula to invest in public services and our national assets such as our universities. I’m sure we can all agree that Wales should not have to settle for anything less.

Today, the Senedd holds a non-binding vote on the Welsh Government’s draft budget, followed by the final budget being published on 25 February. So, let us be candid: there is so much at stake, today’s debate has in part sought, sadly, to make partisan political talking points, with some Members seeking to get themselves quoted as bashing the Welsh Government’s budget even before we see the final version. 

As a member of the Finance Committee, may I speak and warn of the dangers of any committee Chair's foreword to any report being held up as the unanimous view of that committee? Today I read on page 6 of the Western Mail a headline that read provocatively,

'Welsh Government budget full of "empty words"...report'.

A casual reader would think that the cross-party Finance Committee had actually come to this conclusion, when, in fact, it was the subjective words of our Chair—a Plaid Cymru Member who I respect, but who never knowingly misses an opportunity to stick the boot into the Welsh Government. I like Peredur personally very much, but I wonder why his foreword did not centre more on the objective facts that the Welsh Government's financial settlement for 2025-26 is the largest real-terms funding increase since devolution began. Our Finance Committee report noted that the cost-of-living crisis has not gone away and noted the difference in language from the language of austerity in recent years. Is anyone here today seriously suggesting that, after 14 years of Tory UK Government austerity, all financial problems would be solved and resolved, that the cost-of-living crisis would have somehow ended within six months of the election of a UK Labour Government?

We speak often in this Siambr of the growing maturity of Welsh democracy since devolution began. Let us show that in practice over this next month and ensure that a budget is passed for the good of Wales, and to ensure not a single penny is lost to Wales—not again, not ever. We only have to look at the United States to see the politicisation in Washington over the US Government's budget that periodically sees the entire US Government shut down and workers left unpaid and families hungry. It would be easy to make cheap political points, and I'm not going to. Let us leave sheer partisan polarisation to others, and let us, in the manner of mature democrats, advocate compromise and agree a budget for the good of Wales that seeks to meet Wales's need. Diolch yn fawr i chi.

By any measure, this is a good budget. For the first time in 14 years, we've had the chance to uplift spending in every Welsh Government department. The extra £1.5 billion allocation from the Labour UK Government will make a real difference to people's lives, particularly those living in poverty. Three billion pounds of capital funding for new schools, the NHS estate and equipment, building more homes, investing in renewable energy, repairing roads, upgrading public transport and enhancing flood defences, a £335 million package of non-domestic rates support for businesses, extending commitments to policies that put money in people's pockets, increasing the discretionary assistance fund, the education maintenance allowance, the social housing grant, the transitional accommodation programme and the childcare offer—these are the things that are on the table today. 

This draft budget is a road map to a brighter future. But it's going to take more than one budget to undo the consequential impact of 14 years of Tory economic mismanagement, political mistakes and social vandalism. By supporting this budget, though, we'll have to set out on that journey—

Are you taking the intervention?

No. If we fail to do so, the consequence will be serious—preventing extra money earmarked by the UK Government from being spent on reducing the tax yield in Wales by up to £3 billion meaning incredibly difficult and damaging decisions for public services. That's what's at play here. This is not a game. It would be reckless. [Interruption.] No, I'm nearly finished. It would be reckless. The people of this country voted to end political recklessness. Above all else, they expect certainty, clarity and competence from this Senedd, not chaos and confusion. I just hope that people will start growing up and looking at the fact that this is not a playground, this is not a game; this is a real, real budget that's going to affect people's lives.

The Cabinet Secretary now to reply to the debate—Mark Drakeford. 

Diolch yn fawr, Llywydd, and thank you to everybody who has taken part in this debate. I think over 20 Members of the Senedd have spoken in it, and I think that is evidence of the seriousness with which the debate has been conducted. I said in my opening contribution that this has often been an occasion for thoughtful contributions and influential contributions, too, and, for the most part, I think this afternoon has lived up to that tradition.

I'm not going to be able to respond, of course, to everybody who has spoken in the time I've got left. I wanted particularly to thank the Chairs of the committees who've spoken in the debate: Buffy Williams, John Griffiths, Jenny Rathbone, Llyr Gruffydd and Delyth Jewell. I've had an opportunity, Llywydd, to read, very rapidly but to read my way through, the reports that were published yesterday, and I think the reports are a tribute to the work that committees do. They are thoughtful, they have suggestions to make—most often to spend more money. I understand that. That's why committees are there, to make those cases, and I thought the contributions from all committee Chairs this afternoon were a tribute to the seriousness of the work that they lead.

There have been a series of themes running through the afternoon and I'm going to come to those in just one moment. As I said, I can't answer every point that has been raised, but I wanted to attend very briefly to just a few of them. I was asked by Carolyn Thomas whether the money that we will provide, the revenue we will provide, to support local government borrowing so that they can attend to local roads and pavements, whether that was for the full period of the borrowing, the 30 years. Yes, it is. The money, once it's in the budget, will go on being provided over that long haul. James Evans—and I thought it was a thoughtful contribution—recognised that the money we're providing for women's health is a start in that investment, and I wanted to say to him and to other colleagues here that were there to be more money available in-year, then the health service will always be at the top of a Labour government's list of priorities, and that will be true for next year, as is getting the best value for the investments that we make in all our public services.

I wanted to say something about the contributions that were made on behalf of political parties, Llywydd. Well, I thought Sam Rowlands went through the motions. I thought he did his best. There were a number of contributions from the Conservative benches, those who were not offered the benefits of foreign travel, which treated us once again to the greatest hits of their many contributions. What they didn't offer, not a single one—and it was true of Sam Rowlands's contribution as well; I waited as the minutes ticked by, thinking any minute now he's going to tell us what a Conservative Government in Wales would do—but not a single one—. The usual collection of woes, everything that they think is wrong with Wales, but, offered an opportunity, a 10-minute opportunity, Llywydd, to set out what an opposition would do if they were to be trusted by people in Wales, nobody, absolutely nobody listening to this debate would be—[Interruption.] Yes, of course.  

I hope you'll consider that I did not make that mistake. I sought to emphasise that a few million more to the third sector charitable community, third sector care and health organisations, from health and care would generate multiple tens of millions in savings for those statutory bodies. It's a rational trade-off. It's clever budgeting.

I listened carefully to Mark Isherwood's contribution. He may well not have made the mistakes of his party spokesperson, but what he didn't do either was to explain to us where that money would come from. And that is, of course, the dilemma that faces opposition parties here. They’re very keen indeed to tell us what’s wrong; they’ve almost nothing to tell us on how that is to be put right. And even when they do, they can’t tell us how they would pay for it.

I listened, of course, to the many contributions from the Plaid Cymru benches—an attempt to explain the political cul-de-sac into which this party has talked itself over this budget. The budget, said Mabon ap Gwynfor, is 'firefighting', but he is going to vote against the budget, so he’d rather the fire went on blazing. We were told by Sioned Williams that the budget was an attempt to fix the holes in the welfare state, but she’s going to vote against the budget, so those holes won’t be filled at all. We heard from Cefin Campbell that the university sector needed more help. He’s going to vote against a budget that provides millions more pounds of investment in the education sector. Not one of them—not one of them, Llywydd—was able to tell us how they would move money round within the budget that we have to do a better job. Instead, and astonishingly for a party that was prepared to allow budgets that had cuts to public services to go through the Senedd, they will vote against the first budget we have seen for many years that has genuine new investment in those services.

I asked you if you would work with us to fight for fair funding for Wales. When we worked under the co-operation agreement, with a different UK Conservative Government, we worked with you. But you promised so much—that you would fight for Wales. You said the same things as us then in terms of the £4 billion owed to Wales through the HS2 consequential. Why are you so silent now? We’ve offered to work with you to fight for Wales; you’re silent.

It wasn’t the Welsh Labour Government who withdrew from the co-operation agreement. The Member might wish to remember that. Of course we go on arguing with the UK Government for the things that we know are right for Wales: on HS2, on a fair funding formula for Wales. Fighting doesn’t deliver a single extra penny for this budget, and that’s what we are debating, not some fantasy budget of Plaid Cymru when we’ve won all the arguments and the money flows down the M4 so we can create our pathway to independence on the backs of everybody else—[Interruption.] No, no, that’s nothing. In this budget, that’s what we are here to debate, not the fantasy politics of Plaid Cymru. And on this budget, they had nothing at all to say to us this afternoon, other than they will deliberately and knowingly vote to deny those public services and those people who rely on them the extra money that is available to them through this budget. And I say to you now: you will not be forgotten for doing that. [Interruption.] Of course I will.

This is Labour’s budget. I assume you have a plan to get it through.

This is Labour’s budget, and I’m proud that it is Labour’s budget. I’m proud of everything that it will do to improve the lives of people in Wales. The next time you ask for more money for this and more money for that, and they ask you, 'Why did you vote against more money when it was available?’, I hope you will have a better answer than any that you’ve offered us here this afternoon.

Let me turn, Llywydd, to the Finance Committee. I hope the Chair of the Finance Committee was listening carefully to what was said by members of his committee here this afternoon. I have never heard a press release put out by a committee disowned by members of that committee as his press release was disowned this afternoon. It was reputationally damaging to that committee, that nakedly partisan press release that neither reflected the report itself nor, as Members here said, was reflected in the contribution that the Chair of the Finance Committee made on the floor of the Senedd this afternoon. I will reply to the recommendations of the Finance Committee with the seriousness that I hope I always bring to the discussions we have in the Finance Committee. There are serious recommendations, they will receive a serious reply. It is a great shame that that work has been undermined by the nakedly partisan way in which that committee's conclusions were reported to the media here in Wales. 

Time and time again this afternoon, absolutely understandably, we've heard concerns about national insurance contributions. Let me repeat what I've said before: as soon as I know the amount of money that will come to Wales to help with public sector employer contributions, that money will be made known to those services and that money will be passed to them immediately. What I cannot do is divert money available to this Senedd for the responsibilities that we discharge here—to take money away from those budgets to make up for deficits in budgets that are not our responsibility at all. As difficult as that is and as much as I hear the evidence that has been presented to committees, that is a principle from which I cannot depart in making a budget here for Wales.

The money that I have at my disposal I put to you to support the responsibilities for which we collectively are all elected to discharge. If you want me to take money away from the health service, if you want me to take money away from education, if you want less money spent money on housing in order to make up for a budget for which we're not responsible in any way, you must let me know that. I don't think that would be right and I repeat what I said in the Finance Committee: I'm not going to be able to do it in this budget.  

What I will do, to close, Llywydd, is listen very carefully to the points that have been made around the Chamber about priority areas that have come through the process of scrutiny. I've heard what's been said this afternoon about the arts. I've heard what's been said about social care. I've heard what's been said about children. I've lost count of the number of times, Llywydd, that I've said, despite the fact that we have £1.5 billion to invest in public services, after 14 years of austerity that will not fill every hole, that will not put right everything that we've had to deal with over that time.

But I do provide this assurance to Members here: that the work of committees in scrutinising the budget, the constructive suggestions that have been put here this afternoon, matter to this Government. They matter to me as the finance Minister, and as we move to the final budget I will be listening very carefully to the points that have been made this afternoon. I hope, where I can, to reflect some of that in the way in which the final budget allocates the money we have for the responsibilities we are asked to discharge as part of our work in this Senedd. 

The proposal is to agree the amendment. Does any Member object? [Objection.] There are objections and therefore we will defer voting under this item until voting time. 

Item 8 is next, Stage 4 of the Health and Social Care (Wales) Bill. I call on the Minister for Children and Social Care to move the motion. Dawn Bowden. 

Diolch, Llywydd. I'm delighted to move the motion for Stage 4 of the Health and Social Care (Wales) Bill. The provisions to eliminate profit from the care of looked-after children are part of the biggest reform of children's services in Wales for over 40 years. From fostering and adoption, corporate parenting, practice standards and services for children with complex needs, the Welsh Government is putting into practice our commitment to give every family in Wales the opportunity to succeed. 

It's worth remembering where this part of the Bill started—in young people telling us that they did not want to be the means of someone making a profit out of the challenges that they and their families faced. We listened to them and we agreed with them. That's why we introduced this Bill and why today is so important to young people. It shows that, above all, we have heard them and we've put their rights and needs first. The Bill will also allow us to channel the resources to pay for care directly into services without margin for private gain, so that we can develop a sustainable, affordable and well-managed range of care services for our young people. 

Additionally, if passed, the Bill will play an important part in honouring the Government's commitment to improve the interface between social care and continuing NHS healthcare by enabling the introduction of continuing healthcare direct payments. This is important in supporting disabled people and those with long-term health needs to live as independently and with as much control as possible. It too is witness to our commitment to put the voice of the most vulnerable in Wales at the heart of what we do as a Government.

This is a groundbreaking piece of legislation, of which we can all be proud. I would like to thank Members of the Senedd, especially my predecessor Julie Morgan, who was responsible for this Bill in its early stages. I'm grateful also to those Members and committees who have scrutinised this Bill and helped improve it, supported by Senedd Commission officials. I'd also like to thank the Welsh Government officials who have supported me for their commitment and dedication. Likewise, I thank all the stakeholders and delivery partners who have contributed to the policy and legislative process. But above all, I'm grateful to the children and young people, and disabled people, and those with long-term health needs, who contributed to the development and scrutiny of the Bill by sharing their experiences of the health and social care system and their views on how it needs to change.

I look forward to working with all involved as we implement the Bill, subject, of course, to Royal Assent. I urge all parties in the Senedd to support this Bill, so that we can improve the care experience for looked-after children, ensure that direct payments are possible for people receiving continuing NHS healthcare, and support them to retain voice and control of their lives, and improve the operation of the law on social care in Wales. Diolch, Llywydd.

I'd first like to express my gratitude again to my colleague Altaf Hussain for his dedicated work on this Bill, before passing it over to me, as well as the clerk and the legal team for their hard work throughout the scrutiny process, which has enabled all Members here to fulfil their roles as effectively as possible.

We as Welsh Conservatives, and myself, are committed to ensuring that every child in Wales has access to the care and support they need to thrive. Every child deserves to feel safe, valued and supported, particularly those who have already faced significant hardship in their young lives. We believe that the best way to achieve this is through a well-resourced, well-maintained system that prioritises quality care, stability and long-term positive outcomes for those young people in care.

However, it will come as no surprise that my colleagues and I have concerns about the approach this legislation has taken. The reality is that 87 per cent of children's home placements and 35 per cent of fostering placements in Wales are provided by the private sector. These providers play a critical role in ensuring that children have somewhere safe to live and receive the care and support they need. Many of these establishments provide high-quality compassionate care, helping children to rebuild their lives and feel part of a family, and work towards a stable future. It's simply wrong to assume that making profit is inherently at odds with delivering excellent care. Across Wales, there are private providers who go above and beyond for the children they support—[Interruption.] Thank you, Janet—providing stability, resources and opportunities that help them flourish. What truly matters is whether a placement is safe, nurturing, and meets the need of the child. To jeopardise existing placements and limit future capacity in the name of ideology we think is the wrong approach.

We've been told throughout this Bill's passage that listening to children and young people has been a priority, yet we cannot ignore the fact that the most important concern for all these children is knowing they will be placed in a home where they feel cared for, and where they're safe, and where their needs are met. The children in care today need certainty and reassurance, not policies that risk reducing the number of available placements or delaying much-needed improvements in the system. I know that many in this Chamber disagree with my party's stance, and I fully respect those differences of opinion. However, this should be not about political positioning; it should be about what's best for the children affected. It is deeply disappointing that, rather than focusing on improving stability and availability, this legislation takes a restrictive approach that could put the future of many placements at risk.

The Welsh Government has not succeeded in bringing down the number of children in care, nor has it done enough to expand the capacity in the sector. The reality is that demand for placements remains high, and children cannot be left waiting for appropriate homes because of political ideology. Now is not the time to introduce measures that could further destabilise a system considerably under strain. My main amendment sought to introduce a more balanced approach, one that would have allowed reasonable profit while ensuring robust safeguards and improvements in care standards. These changes would have made the Bill more workable, reassured providers, and ensured those delivering excellent care were not unfairly demonised. It is unfortunate that these proposals were dismissed so quickly, as a more pragmatic approach could have delivered better outcomes for the children we're all here to support.

My other amendments focus on holding Welsh Ministers to account on reporting and monitoring and strengthening workforce planning, ensuring adequate funding and addressing urgent issues in unregistered placements. These are the real challenges that must be tackled to improve care for children, yet these proposals were disregarded. But I did get some assurance from the Minister on some of that monitoring. Of course I'm disappointed that none of my amendments were accepted, but above all, I am concerned about the impact this Bill could have on children who rely on the system. However, I do respect that there is a difference of opinion in the Chamber on this matter. Throughout this process, young people have made it clear that what matters most to them is feeling respected, staying close to the people they know and being cared for by those who genuinely have their best interests at heart. That should be our focus, ensuring that every child in Wales has access to safe, stable, loving, high-quality care that gives them the best possible future.

As we now look ahead to the implementation of this legislation, I urge you, Minister, to work closely with the sector to minimise the disruption and ensure that no child is left without a suitable placement. The transition period must be handled with care, and I hope the Minister will provide regular detailed updates to this Chamber, so we can properly assess the impact of these changes.

Ultimately, we all share the same goal: to ensure that every child in Wales has the opportunity to grow up in a supporting and nurturing environment. And as I've said before, during my time on the Children, Young People and Education Committee, listening to those young people in care really shaped my views around this issue. And I say to those young people again, the committee won't forget you, and I certainly will never forget you or the impact that you have made on me and my view of politics in this place. Thank you.

Well, this item on the agenda today brings some satisfaction to us in Plaid Cymru. A long-awaited day where we are delivering a long-standing Plaid Cymru policy and looking to bring to an end the ability of companies to make a financial profit at the expense of some of the most vulnerable people in our society. As Mahatma Gandhi said, we can find the true measure of any society in the way that it treats the most vulnerable, and here we can state clearly that we are placing the needs of our children and young people who find themselves in care at the forefront of our thoughts. It's not about the bottom line of a balance sheet, it's not about annual profits and how much profit can be derived—that's not our yardstick in Wales, rather how fully someone can live their life and contribute to society. By ensuring that the public funding that is provided to children in care goes towards the interests and needs of those children and young people, we are living up to our core beliefs in Wales that characterises politics in Wales since the advent of modern democracy, and we in the Senedd should take pride in that. Indeed, it's a sign of political maturity that we have been able to come together as two parties to work jointly and deliver this vision.

I'd like to thank the clerks and the parliamentary lawyers for their hard work throughout the legislative process, and although a number of our amendments weren't accepted last week, I also thank the Minister and her predecessor for the constructive discussions we had during this Bill's legislative journey. Because this Bill is the fruit of collaboration. Of course, through our amendments, we were seeking sugar to sprinkle on this fruit in proposing our amendments. But although some of those amendments failed, the core tenets remain, and that's what's important. And let's not forget that this isn't our Bill as a Senedd; this Bill is deeply rooted in the aspirations of the children and young people and the disabled people. This is their Bill, and we are the vehicle to deliver upon their wishes here today. So, I look forward to seeing the Bill being passed tonight. Thank you.

This Bill is a significant achievement for this Senedd. As the Minister has said, it's the centrepiece of a much wider programme for the radical reform of children's services. In Wales 1 in every 100 young people under the age of 18 is looked after by the local authority, and this is a much higher rate than in England and other comparable places. In part, this can be explained by the legacy of economic disadvantage in Wales, and the lack of money made available to the Welsh Government to invest in public services to the extent that we have long wanted in Wales. But this isn't the whole explanation for the high rates of care in Wales. We know that we also need to challenge and make changes to the system and to the services we provide for children looked after, and I congratulate the Minister and the Welsh Government on the scope and boldness of the radical reform agenda, and this Bill is key to that agenda. It addresses the fact that many of the children and young people looked after in Wales are placed with private companies whose business is to make profit from the services that they provide.

The Bill started with children, as the Minister said, with children and young people telling us that they did not want to be the source of someone else's profit, and this Bill will bring an end to that. It will also bring an end to a market that's tilted in favour of the private sector and the very high cost this is on the public purse. We all know the huge amounts of money that local authorities have to pay for private placements. It'll help us to make sure the children come first, and it will free up money to be spent on those children it was meant to help. So, I think this is a very significant day for this Senedd. My only concern about the Bill, which I have discussed with the Minister, is how long it will take to finally bring it into operation, and so I asked the Minister for reassurance that that will be done as soon as it is possible.

So, I think in Wales we have a distinguished record of putting children's voices, their rights and entitlements and their needs at the top of our agenda. And I also want to acknowledge the collaboration with Plaid Cymru. Working together we have achieved this. Again, I think that is a great achievement of collaboration and working together. And I think this Bill is part of the tradition of listening to children's voices and putting children at the top of our agenda, and I'm really looking forward to voting for it.

The Minister to reply to the debate—Dawn Bowden.

Diolch, Llywydd. And can I firstly thank everybody who’s contributed to the debate this afternoon? I'm not going to, obviously, in the time allowed to me to respond to the debate, go through all the points that were raised by James Evans, but, clearly, we did deal with that through scrutiny and at Stage 3, and I don't doubt for one moment, James, your commitment to us doing the work that we need to do to improve the outcomes for looked after children in Wales, and I do thank you very much for your support for that. I absolutely agree with everything that Mabon has said, and particularly what Julie Morgan has said. Julie, along with Mark Drakeford, actually, being the initial architects of this legislation, and I'm eternally grateful to both of you for that.

I want to be very clear in winding up this particular debate that eliminating the profit provisions as quickly as possible in a way that minimises disruption to the sector and to the placements of individual children is a key priority of Government, and we will be working closely with our sector partners to ensure rapid progress and providing regular updates on the implementation. And I want to be absolutely clear, and I do appreciate your concern, Julie, and the concern that others have raised that the adjustment from 2027 to 2030 is a significant change—it was not a decision that was taken lightly, and I will keep this under review. But I was mindful of minimising the risk of disruption to children and the feedback that I received. But I want to be very, very clear that the 2030 date for the ending of new placements by Welsh local authorities in existing for-profit services is not a target date; it is the absolute end date.FootnoteLink And I expect substantial progress to be made before then in ending placements of existing for-profit children's homes and fostering services prior to 2030 in areas that have sufficiency for that not-for-profit provision, and I will be making sure that we get to that place as quickly as we possibly can. So, I just once again want to thank everybody for their contributions and I hope again to have the support of the Senedd in supporting this Bill. Thank you very much indeed.

In accordance with Standing Order 26.50C, a recorded vote must be taken on Stage 4 motions, so the vote will be deferred to voting time.

That brings us to voting time, and unless three Members wish for the bell to be rung, we will move immediately to our first vote. The first vote this afternoon is on item 6—the legislative consent motion on the Great British Energy Bill, and it was tabled in the name of Rebecca Evans. Open the vote. Close the vote. In favour 30, no abstentions, 26 against. Therefore, the motion is agreed.

We’ll move now to the votes under item 7—the draft budget for 2025-26. I call for a vote on amendment 1, tabled in the name of Paul Davies. Open the vote on amendment 1. Close the vote. In favour 26, no abstentions, 30 against. And therefore the amendment is not agreed.

And the next vote is on the motion in the name of Jane Hutt. Open the vote. Close the vote. In favour 29, 1 abstention, 26 against. And therefore the motion is agreed.

And the final vote is on Stage 4 of the Health and Social Care (Wales) Bill. And I call for a vote on the motion tabled in the name of Dawn Bowden.

My voting link has just gone down. Can I vote verbally?

Yes, you probably can. 

Open the vote. Close the vote. In favour 42, no abstentions, 14 against. And therefore that motion is agreed. 

There we are. And that brings today's proceedings to a close.