National Assembly for Wales

For those young people who stood for election but weren’t successful on this occasion, I know you’ll be disappointed, but thank you for your hard-fought campaigns and for putting yourselves forward. We hope that you will continue to follow the Welsh Youth Parliament’s work and get involved in the coming months and years. The story is not over for you, I’m sure.

I’m very pleased, therefore, to announce the successful candidates for the third Welsh Youth Parliament, representing constituencies and partner organisations.

Oh, this reads wrong. I think this is meant to be South Wales Central. 

Save the Children say that the occupied Palestinian territory is now ranked as the deadliest place in the world for children, and has the highest rates of child malnutrition globally. UNICEF reported last week that three boys and a girl were killed by an Israeli air strike as they queued for a piece of bread, their short lives among the 14,000 children who have been killed in Gaza. The UN Secretary General highlighted that Gaza now has the highest number of children amputees per capita in the world and warned that the conditions in Gaza may amount to the gravest international crimes. The Future Generations Commissioner for Wales has written to you, calling on the Welsh Government to take action, outlining your responsibilities under the well-being of future generations Act, reminding you that

'Our commitment to future generations extends beyond our borders',

and

'Our voice on the global stage should...confront injustices'.

So, what is your response to the future generations commissioner's call? Do you agree that we must not allow Wales to be complicit in what Amnesty's recent researchers found to be genocide against Palestinians, and, if so, will you advocate for an end to UK arms sales to Israel and ensure that all Welsh Government activities or partnerships provide no support for companies implicated in this unlawful and inhumane military action and occupation?

Thanks very much. You're right—I think we've all been watching developments in the middle east with real concern and interest. It's not just Palestine, but, obviously, very changing and shifting sands in Syria now, and we don't know what the next chapter will be in that particular story. But you refer specifically to Palestine, and I think we're all very concerned about what's been happening there over a prolonged period of time. And you're quite right—the future generations commissioner has written to me and set out his concerns. I took the opportunity just last week, in the British-Irish Council, to share my reflections in particular on the situation in Palestine, with the Prime Minister and other leaders, especially in relation to Palestine, and also the Trump presidency. We, of course, have called for an immediate ceasefire, the unconditional release of hostages, and the removal of restrictions on humanitarian aid. There are limits, of course, to the powers that we have in terms of being a Government, and we have responded, and it is up to the UK Government to take the lead when it comes to foreign affairs.

Thank you, Sioned, for raising this burning issue. First Minister, being globally responsible should apply to every decision taken by your Government, including planning decisions. Over the past few weeks, the Welsh Government have approved a number of large-scale solar projects, including one at Glais in my region. These projects use a large number of solar panels. Rare earth material—indium, gallium and tellurium—play a crucial role in their manufacture. The mining of such minerals is often undertaken using child and slave labour. There is also an ethical consideration when it comes to the manufacture of panels. The biggest manufacturers of photovoltaic cells is China, which has been found to be using slave labour from ethnic minority populations, such as the Uyghurs. First Minister, what steps are you taking to ensure that solar farms approved by your Government only use ethically and responsibly sourced materials in their construction and operation? Thank you.

Thanks very much, Altaf. You’re quite right—we want to be a globally responsible nation, and that’s why what you’re seeing is a significant shift away from fossil fuels and into renewable energy, and this, of course, is part of that strategic shift that we are taking in Wales. That’s why we’re very proud that we’re speeding up planning decisions in relation to renewable energy. But you’re quite right—we have to be careful in terms of where the resources come from and make sure that they adhere to the kind of human rights that we hold dear, in particular when it comes to child labour and slave labour. So, I’ll make further enquiries just to make sure that we’re absolutely watertight on those issues when it comes to building our infrastructure in the future.

First Minister, returning to the horrific situation in Gaza, where we know tens of thousands of children and women have been killed following the Hamas attacks over a year ago, and, as we've heard from Sioned Williams, we had the largest number of child amputees in modern history, with many of those amputations taking place without anaesthetic following the attacks on medical facilities and services. We know that hunger is being used as a weapon of war and disease is spreading. The International Court of Justice has dealt with some of these matters in dealing with genocide proceedings, and again we heard Amnesty International has stated that, in their view, genocide is taking place. I very much agree with the future generations commissioner’s letter to you, First Minister, and welcome some of the statements you’ve made and the donation to the emergency appeal for the middle east. But I would be grateful if you’d very carefully consider what more you can do, given the extent of the situation, both in making representations to the UK Government, and more directly considering, for example, working with public sector bodies in Wales to urgently review their pension schemes to ensure that they are ethical and not supporting the actions of the Israeli Government?

Thanks very much. I think we’ve all seen the horrific scenes in Palestine and the murder of innocents. Isn’t it ironic, this time of year, to talk about the murder of innocents at this time in that part of the world? I think it’s really important that we keep up the pressure. Our responsibility is to make sure that it’s the UK Government that’s keeping up that pressure. That’s where the responsibility for foreign affairs lies. But, as I explained, I took the opportunity to do that just last Friday with the Prime Minister, and I know that he is very concerned about the situation as well. We will do what we can within the powers that we have here within Wales. On pensions, I’m afraid there is a limit to what we can do within that area because of our constitutional restrictions.

Diolch. No Welsh Government financial support has been provided to companies in Wales who export arms to Israel since the 7 October attacks. Welsh Government has robust procurement governance and audit procedures to safeguard against potential non-compliance with procurement regulations. And also, just in relation to the pensions, the regulations controlling local government pension authorities are not devolved. So, the Welsh Government has no control over decisions on investments made by elected authority members in Wales and the Welsh pension partnership.

We recognise north Wales has many strengths that are attractive to investors. We work with the UK and local governments, and our regional stakeholders, to ensure those strengths are known across the UK and internationally, and I fully intend to showcase these at next year’s investment summit.

Thank you for your response, First Minister. I certainly welcome the announcement of the investment summit for 2025. As you rightly pointed out, north Wales has many strengths, in particular its location within the United Kingdom, with infrastructure that works well into north-west England and then links into Ireland, into European markets there as well, as well as having exceptionally skilled people who are entrepreneurial spirits, who want to do their bit in our communities as well. 

One of the benefits of the last UK Conservative Government, of course, was its relationship with the Welsh Government in establishing the growth deal and the investment zone in north-east England and the free port in Anglesey/Ynys Môn as well. So, I wonder how you see using the growth deal investment zone and the free port to attract more of that investment. And will you, again, commit today to ensuring that north Wales is talked about loudly and proudly at the investment summit next year? 

Well, thanks very much. It was really good that you got some of the way as a UK Government in terms of the investment zone, but you never crossed the line. You gave the money to England in relation to investment zones, but it's only a Labour Government that is now getting it across the line—£160 million available in the next 10 years. And it is, I think, and I'm sure you are—. It's right and proper that we all welcome that. We want to see that investment in north Wales. We've got a statutory instrument that has been laid now in relation to the Anglesey free port, and we're hoping that the reliefs will be cleared for January. That will unlock huge potential in that part of the world, and we know that there are investors lined up and ready for action in that part of the world. So, you're quite right; it is important that we welcome this. It is important that we showcase north Wales. North Wales has a huge amount to offer, but I think these two separate proposals are things where we can really drive investment into those particular parts of the world. 

I recently visited Theatr Clwyd in Mold to see how work is progressing. It'll be so much more than an important producing theatre, with 100 new jobs being created, 240 core employees, and they are developing tourism apprentices as well. The turnover has risen from £5 million to £13 million, and it's a great example of partnership working between public and private investment, a great place for growing well-being and the economy. North Wales has become very popular as a destination for the film and music industry. Business leaders have been urged to support Wrexham's bid to become the UK City of Culture in 2029.

First Minister, the Wrexham and Flintshire investment zone originally included creative and digital, as well as advanced manufacturing, but that was dropped. Now, Creative Wales and the Federation of Small Businesses have said they would support it being included again if that's a possibility. So, do you think this could be a possibility to help further grow this important industry in north Wales?

Diolch yn fawr, Carolyn, and can I just say that Theatr Clwyd I think is the jewel in the crown of north Wales culture? It's really important that we as a Government have invested in it. It's a massive investment in what I think is a really important development in north Wales, and, as you say, it brings with it new jobs, new opportunities for construction, new opportunities for tourism. All of these things I think should be celebrated. I think we all found it very difficult last year to make those difficult decisions in relation to cutting the budgets for the arts. That hurt, that hurt a lot, but we were really pleased that the money for Theatr Clwyd was continued.

Now, in relation to the investment zones, within the prospectus and the guidance it said that we have to focus on a single high-growth potential sector, or a specific cluster if more than one sector. So, these are the rules of the game. It was determined that, in relation to the north-east, we should focus on that advanced manufacturing space. Proposals can support more than one priority sector, but only where there's evidence that those sectors intersect. And so that's why: there was no compelling evidence, I'm afraid, to suggest that the creative and digital sectors intersect with the advanced manufacturing. So, that was the reason for that. But let me tell you that we are absolutely committed to continuing with that investment in Theatr Clwyd. It is something that should be celebrated. The work that they do there is really something to behold, and I would suggest that Members take the opportunity to go and visit when they're in the area.

Diolch yn fawr iawn, Llywydd, and good afternoon, First Minister.

If you'll permit me, Presiding Officer, I just want to start my contribution today by paying tribute to my colleague Andrew R.T. Davies. As many people will know, both Andrew and I entered this Senedd in 2007, and it's been an absolute pleasure to work alongside him in a close way for the past 17 years. He's been an outstanding leader of the opposition for more than a decade, and his contribution to the Conservative Party, this Senedd and the people of Wales has been second to none. He also led, of course, the Welsh Conservatives with great passion, and for that we are truly grateful.

Now, all of us in this Chamber know that it would simply not be possible to do our jobs without the care and support of our loved ones, so I also want to put on record my thanks to Andrew's wife Julia and his wider family for the support that they've given him throughout his tenure as leader of the opposition. Andrew, you leave your role having achieved record sets of Senedd election results in 2021, and I now have some very big shoes to fill, so I've put on some extra thick socks for the rest of the day, and I'm looking forward to getting stuck in.

I'd also like to say, if I can, from the outset that, as the new leader of the opposition here in the Senedd, I take this responsibility seriously and I therefore look forward to having a constructive relationship with you, First Minister. I won't shy away from holding you and your Government to account, but, where it is possible, my party and I will work with you in the interests of the people of Wales, and with other political parties in this Chamber, because we are here elected to serve them, and that's why they will always be first in our minds.

First Minister, over the weekend, the people of Wales were struck by storm Darragh. It was a devastating storm to many communities up and down Wales, causing some significant damage and disruption to our transport and energy networks, and our hearts, of course, do go out to all of those who were adversely affected. Many people in Wales got alerts on their mobile devices; some, unfortunately, didn't seem to get those alerts. Now, we are grateful to the Welsh and UK Governments for sending those alerts; it's something that we asked for in the aftermath of storm Bert. But, ultimately, First Minister, with many livelihoods now blown apart, can you outline what support the Welsh Government is making available to those who have been impacted by the storms, and what financial resources you're going to give to local authorities and others in the public sector to make sure that they can deal with the aftermath?

Thanks very much and can I, first of all, welcome Darren to his new role as the leader of the opposition, the Conservatives, in Wales? And I've no doubt that we will have some very robust but constructive exchanges in the Senedd. I'm almost looking forward to it, Darren. I would like to wish him and all Members of the Chamber a happy Christmas. We've had a difficult year, it's been very challenging, but I hope we can all go away, particularly after we hear the budget later on today, with a spring in our step, looking forward to what the next chapter will bring.  

But you're quite right, Darren—it was a very challenging weekend for the people of Wales. That storm was a red alert storm. It meant that there was a danger to life, and we were really pleased that we were able to agree to putting out that alarm so that people had as much warning as possible that there was a very serious situation coming up. I would like to thank the people of Wales for heeding those warnings. They took it seriously and the fact that we didn't lose any lives in Wales in the face of such a huge, huge storm is something that I think we need to take note of. 

There are, clearly, lessons be learnt in many areas, and, in the same way as we learnt lessons from just a fortnight ago in terms of advance warning, there will be lessons to learn on this occasion. There are still many people in Wales who have no electricity. There are still many people who are feeling very vulnerable. We are, obviously, in discussions with the electricity companies who have identified those people, they're working with local authorities, but it is a very concerning situation and some have been told that that will continue until Friday.

Now, that is not a good situation for vulnerable and old people, so, if you know of people in your communities, please check up on them. I know the council is going to do all they can, I know the third sector are doing all they can, and I know also that a huge amount of work has been done by those electricity companies. Six hundred and ninety-five thousand customers have already been reconnected but it's those pockets that are left that are very challenging, and I think we all need to take our responsibilities seriously in looking after our neighbours at these difficult times.   

You didn't pick up on the question I asked about the additional resources available to local authorities and other parts of the public sector that have been hit, and I hope you'll be able to respond to that question in your next response. Obviously, it is vital that lessons are learnt and I'm glad to hear that you say that you'll be doing just that.

Now, if I can, I want to turn to another storm that Wales is contending with, because, in October, we heard that the UK Government was breaking a key Labour manifesto pledge by increasing taxes on working people by putting up employers' national insurance contributions, a devastating decision that will suppress wages, scupper investment and undermine efforts to create new jobs. And all this at a time when Wales already has the highest unemployment rate in the UK and the lowest in-work rate across the United Kingdom. Those national insurance increases, of course, First Minister, will impact on people delivering public services across Wales, whether they are public service employers or whether they are contracted by public services too.

Your Government's unveiling its budget today, so can you tell us how much of that budget is going to be gobbled up to cover those employer national insurance increases for people delivering public services across our country?

Thanks very much. Look, just in terms of the resources, we will need a wash-up after this event in relation to the storm, as we did last week in relation to the previous storm. Local authorities will need to speak to us in terms of what the situation is. But we're still actually confronting and dealing with the actual situation, so we'll need to do that. But, obviously, that money in relation to the floods, that has already been allocated: £1,000 for those who are uninsured, £500 for those who were insured.

Just in relation to national insurance contributions, you really do have a cheek, don't you, Darren? On your first outing, you come in here, you talk about devastating decisions—[Interruption.]—you talk about devastating decisions, let me tell you about a devastating decision: Liz Truss—there's a devastating decision. There's a devastating decision. [Interruption.] And the price people are paying today—[Interruption.]

I can't hear the response. I'm sure the new leader of the Welsh Conservatives wants to hear the response to the question he's just asked. First Minister.

The price people are paying today is as a direct result of some of the decisions that she made. We have a £22 billion hole in the budget that we need to fill. Now, some of that will need to be filled by that national insurance contribution. Those who are directly employed by the public sector will be covered in terms of national insurance. But what you will hear later today, from the finance Secretary, is the highest budget uplift since the beginning of devolution. That's the difference a Labour Government in Wales makes. 

I'm sorry, First Minister, but that response simply did not cut it. Because the truth is, as you well know, that hundreds of millions of pounds that you say is extra money coming to Wales will simply go straight back down the M4 into the coffers of the Treasury. You can spin it all you like, but this is a smoke-and-mirrors situation that gives with one hand and takes away with the other. That's the reality of your budget. And we know that it is our public services that will suffer as a result.

Another storm—[Interruption.]—another storm that we have faced in Wales in recent years is the storm in our national health service—[Interruption.]

Now, believe it or not, I want to be able to hear the new leader of the Welsh Conservatives. So, can I hear him equally, please?

Another storm that's been afflicting Wales is your Labour mismanagement of our national health service. Under Labour, Wales has become the sick man of Britain. We have Welsh NHS waiting lists that have increased for the past eight months in a row and, staggeringly, over 24,000 people in Wales have been waiting two years or more for treatment, and that compares to just 113 people in England, which has a population 18 times the size of the population of Wales. It is an absolute scandal and it is clear that the NHS in Wales, on your watch as a previous health Minister, is broken. What are you going to do to fix it?

I'll tell you what we're going to do: there's an increased amount of money that is coming in, for the first time in a very long time. You heard me talk earlier about how difficult it was for us to make those cuts to things like the arts, because we had to shore up the situation in relation to health. Those national insurance contributions will be coming; if they're directly employed, the additional funding will be coming from the UK Government. A £1 billion uplift, that's what we're looking for next year.

And you talked about wanting to work constructively. You want to work constructively: make sure that £1 billion comes to Wales. Because we need an extra vote here, and if we don't get it, you won't be getting that £1 billion. And I think it's really important also—[Interruption.] You want to be constructive.

And let's talk about the NHS. Two million contacts every month in a population of 3 million people. That is an NHS that is working for the vast majority of people. There's a £50 million uplift just this year, before we get into next year, to cut down the waiting lists. The money is going in, there is a huge increase in funding that's going into the NHS, and you will see the difference.

Diolch, Llywydd. And, in the spirit of Christmas, let me also wish the new leader of the Conservative group in the Senedd the best wishes. I think it's a matter of debate whether it's he or Andrew R.T. Davies who's had the early Christmas present, but I wish them both well personally.

Last year, foodbanks in the Trussell Trust network in Wales distributed nearly 200,000 emergency packages, 68,000 of those for children. For many families, 'A Child's Christmas in Wales' is very, very different to the famous image of Dylan Thomas. Food poverty, child poverty, fuel poverty trap households in a vicious circle, made worse by poor housing, poor health and poor educational attainment. But as the Royal College of Paediatrics and Child Health said last month,

'the impact of poverty and inequalities on children's health is not inevitable.'

Now, last week, the Scottish Government announced plans to mitigate the effects of the cruel two-child benefit cap, devised by the Tories and defended and now continued by Labour. This week's budget offers the First Minister of Wales an opportunity to show that she too is serious about tackling child poverty. Is she ready to seize that opportunity?

Well, thanks very much. I know that there are many people over the whole of Wales who are struggling with the cost-of-living crisis. It's something we're acutely aware of within Welsh Government, and that's why we are making sure that our support for the poorest members of our society continues. When it comes to how we protect, in particular, children who are living in poverty, one of the things that we are doing now is providing those free school meals, and for the first time, this Christmas, every child in a primary school in Wales will have a Christmas dinner, and I think that's certainly something that should be celebrated.

When it comes to what Scotland is doing, look, I'm in charge of what happens here in Wales. I'm not going to go copying and pasting, which is what he seems to want to do, whatever happens in Scotland. There are aspects to welfare that are devolved to Scotland that are not devolved to Wales. They do not provide free school meals in Scotland, and it is important, therefore, for us to do the things that are appropriate for us here in Wales with the powers that we have.

I didn't ask her to copy what was happening in Scotland. I asked what she was going to do. I've had a quick look through the budget and I can't see the step change that we need in terms of child poverty. Yes, I was delighted that, after voting against it many times, Labour did eventually come round to being ready to implement Plaid Cymru's long-standing policy on free school meals, but remember, First Minister, the number of children living in families beneath the poverty line who are under four years old: we need to think about them too.

When the Tories were in power in Westminster, Labour couldn't find enough opportunities to criticise the two-child cap. Fast forward to July, and one of Keir Starmer's first acts as Prime Minister was to suspend seven of his MPs who voted to end it. Just like their refusal to give us a new funding formula, just like denying Wales its fair share of high speed 2 line funding, it appears that in Labour's new playbook, power comes before principle. And remember, this is a Labour Wales First Minister who promised drastic change thanks to her so-called partnership in power.

So, with just 14 days to go until Christmas, will the First Minister share with us her wish list for drastic change from Keir Starmer and his Labour UK Government, or will Plaid Cymru's suspicions be proven right that Santa is the only man in red that we can expect gifts from this Christmas?

You thought long and hard about that last little bit, so well done. [Laughter.] That was a good line, thank you.

But the important thing, I think, is for us to take note of the magic money tree that is once again growing in Plaid Cymru's garden, because every week—every week—we get asked for more money for this and that, and we get asked for more money for housing, for education, for transport, and now we've got the two-child cap, and you never tell us what we should cut, ever, because it's the kind of politics that you promote: one that is unrealistic, that is not grounded.

I'll tell you what the politics you'll be hearing later on this afternoon will be about: it's the politics that matters to the people on the streets of Wales. It's the bread-and-butter issues that they care about, that they told us about in the summer, the things that they are focused on: making sure that more money goes into our NHS, more money goes into our schools, more money goes into our transport system, more money goes into housing. Those are the things that matter to the people of Wales. Those are the priorities.

And of course we will keep on pressing the UK Government for our fair share of things like HS2. I took the opportunity to talk about that once more with Keir Starmer on Friday. So, yes, we will keep pressing, because that is my responsibility as the First Minister of Wales, to make sure that we get a fair share, but you are a party who wants independence, and yet you want the UK Government to pay for all of your little wish lists. You can't have it both ways. 

The now Secretary of State for Wales was wishing on a magic money tree when she wanted £4.5 billion for HS2. Carwyn Jones, when he was First Minister for Labour in the Welsh Government, was unrealistic in wishing on a magic money tree when he was seeking a fair funding formula for Wales, in agreement with Plaid Cymru. Now that Labour are in power on a UK level, they don't give two hoots about what's in the interests of the people of Wales. And standing up to Keir Starmer—[Interruption.] Standing up to Keir Starmer is something that we have to see from a Welsh First Minister.

Work with him—yes, I want to have a positive relationship with him. But without challenge, there will be no change, and families need that change. The Child Poverty Action Group's assessment of how things stand is damning. Families with two children and two parents working full time for the national minimum wage are left £138 per week short of what they need for a no-frills but dignified standard of living, and Keir Starmer’s relaunch of his floundering premiership did nothing to offer them any comfort. So, when the First Minister met the Prime Minister last week, did she in any way advocate on behalf of those struggling as a direct result of their party's inaction? Or is she too happy now to defend old Tory policies dressed up as Labour’s?

I'll tell you the difference a Labour Government has made in Westminster just for us, directly here in Wales: £157 million this financial year of extra money coming in. There's a possibility, if they hadn't called an election, the Tories, they would still be in power. We would still be working to a budget that was on the rocks, that were on the stocks, that suggested that that money would not have come: £57 million extra for health, just this year, on top of the £50 million that's been put in to cut long hospital waiting lists; £95 million to support families in terms of boosting standards in schools; £4 million for green jobs and growth; and extra money for culture—that's the difference a Labour Government makes. There are 5.5 per cent pay awards to NHS staff and 5.5 per cent for people who work in education—that is the difference that a Labour Government makes in Wales.

'Llwybr Newydd', our transport strategy, sets out our vision and priorities for transport in Wales, including Delyn. Our national transport delivery plan, plus the regional transport plans being developed by corporate joint committees, will set out how it will be delivered.

Last month, I organised a successful public transport forum in Flint town hall, bringing together a range of organisations and individuals for a panel discussion with representatives from Transport for Wales, Avanti, Arriva, Sustrans, Network Rail, Flintshire County Council, Unite and ASLEF. Attendees raised immediate issues, such as buses not always serving the interests of communities, often leaving people frustrated and unable to go about their daily lives, and when it comes to trains, whilst the current investment in Flint station is welcome and very well warranted, things like the limited opening times of station facilities are an ongoing cause for concern, especially for lone travellers at this time of year.

But looking to the future, there was plenty of support for Welsh Government plans to reform bus services, but to do so in a way that involves stakeholders, whether that's local authority partners, the workforce through trade unions, but also the communities, and to make sure that those bus services better connect with the existing station in Flint, alongside additional investment in new stations or halts down the coast in places such Greenfield. Because when we talk about a metro in my part of the country, it's better buses and fairer fares, joining up with neighbouring services over the border that will bring about the transformational change we need. And this is something I certainly intend to continue to champion, and the transport forum was just a part of that. So, Prif Weinidog, can you commit to your Government joining me on this journey to seek both more immediate improvements to services, but also to invest in our future equitably in Delyn and across that corner of the country?

Diolch yn fawr, Hannah, and thanks very much for organising that event in Flint. I think, as we move towards bus franchising, I'm really aware that this needs to be done collaboratively with stakeholders and the public. I know the Cabinet Secretary for Transport and North Wales will be issuing an oral statement on progress with bus reforms later today, and I think that franchising could help to bring about the improvements to the bus network that we're all looking for. It's a new model that will allow us to design a bus network that truly puts people first, and that's what you heard from the people in your meeting. We're committed to ensuring the stability and support of our local bus services through the continuation of the bus network grant and the bus services support grant during next year, so you'll be hearing some of that, obviously, in relation to the budget later.

It's encouraging that Flint station was funded by the UK Department for Transport as part of the former Conservative Government's Access for All programme to make it accessible for all passengers, especially those with limited mobility. In terms of bus services, however, concerns were expressed as recently as October about cuts to several bus services in Flintshire due to a reduction in Welsh Government funding and rising costs. [Interruption.] What, therefore, is the current position regarding the announcement in—[Interruption.] Sorry, is someone trying to ask me a question? [Interruption.] What, therefore, is the current position—

Carry on, Mark Isherwood. Thank you very much.

—regarding the announcement in March, following the publication of the Welsh Government's road map to bus reform, that Transport for Wales would collaborate with Flintshire County Council throughout 2024 to make improvements to bus services in Delyn and across the county ahead of the new legislation? How has the Welsh Government worked with the bus industry during the transition to form a bridge to franchising for contract routes that are deemed to be socially necessary for people in Flintshire?

Thanks, Mark. I think we all recognise that the situation in relation to bus services in Wales is not where it should be, and that is partly because of the model that we have. That's why, later on today, you'll be hearing a little bit more about what the future model will look like. You're quite right that what we need to do is to make sure that there is a single mind trying to work out how all these different areas connect, and that we listen to the public in terms of what they want to see. That relationship with the council will be instrumental in making sure that we're reflecting the needs of the public, and not seeing just the most profitable bus routes being picked off. This is a social service. It's an important service, and it's something that I know Ken Skates the transport Minister is committed to. We'll see those changes coming in, beginning with that new Bill coming in very shortly.

Nationally, we have a range of data and information, including qualifications data, our assessment data, our results from the Programme for International Student Assessment, statistical releases, as well as information from Estyn, our independent inspectorate. Many of these data sets are published on a regular basis for the purposes of transparency and to support improvement.

Diolch yn fawr. Last week, we saw the release of this year's Trends in International Mathematics and Science Study scores, which monitor and assess international data. In that, we saw that England is now the best place in the western world to learn maths. It has the best maths scores in the western world, and that is testament, I think, to teachers in England, to pupils in England, but also years of Conservative reforms in education when we were last in Government—reforms that were not copied here in Wales. Our last PISA scores show us to be the worst performing nation of any of the United Kingdom nations.

Going forward, I hope that you will consider that the Welsh Government joins the TIMSS programme so that we can monitor and effectively assess the things that we could do better and to see where we lie against our peers. So, can I get a commitment from you, First Minister, that this will be the last set of TIMSS scores that does not have a result for Wales included?

Thanks very much, Tom. I'm sure you, like me, were very happy to see the additional £50 million available in this year's budget to support standards and infrastructure, because I think we all want to see an improvement in terms of standards in Wales.

I can assure you that the education Secretary is exploring further international benchmarking, and that includes TIMSS when it comes to maths and science and the Progress in International Reading Literacy Study when it comes to reading. I think there are things we can learn from other countries, including England, and we need to make sure that we're working to evidence-based mechanisms to support our children in their development.

Last week in this Chamber, I questioned the Cabinet Secretary for Housing and Local Government, and used the example of Carmarthen, where their local authority is repurposing previously commercial units into residential units, because one of the best ways of rejuvenating our high streets and town centres is increasing footfall. Getting more people living locally and using those services locally is one way of getting more people in that area, boosting businesses on our high streets. What work is this Welsh Government doing, developing on what I asked the Cabinet Secretary previously, to help not only Carmarthenshire County Council but other local authorities in Wales to help repurpose previous commercial properties into residential properties, increasing footfall in our town centres but also increasing the amount of available housing stock in these much-needed areas?

Thanks very much. You’ll be aware that that is something that has been going on for a number of years. But I think there are other examples where, in order to rejuvenate the town centre, you need to make use of some of the buildings that have been abandoned. There are lots of examples—Debenhams, for example, which went bust. I’m really pleased to see that in Carmarthen, and I think in Bangor as well, the local authorities are working with the health authorities to try and change those into health centres, effectively, where you increase the footfall, there’s a reason for people to come into town. So, I think there is real scope here to be creative with some of the budgets that we have put on the table.

Caerphilly County Borough Council has developed an anchor strategy that is seeking to revitalise town centres such as Caerphilly and Bargoed. In Caerphilly, we’ve seen the opening of Ffos Caerffili, the new container market, while the local authority is also working with Urban Foundry’s PopUp Wales project to encourage businesses to set up a temporary basis in empty properties such as the town’s Barclays bank, which has closed. Council-supported pop-up spaces have been provided to local start-ups on Bargoed high street, adding real energy to the town centre. The council has also, through the deputy leader, Councillor Jamie Pritchard, developed a successful events programme, such as the Caerphilly food festival, Bargoed May fair, and Ystrad Mynach spring fair. All of these are the product of both UK and Welsh Government funding and a product of an anchor town strategy. Would she agree that an anchor town strategy is a very good way forward and a good exemplar that Caerphilly has provided to the rest of Wales?

Thanks very much. You're quite right; there are lots of properties within town centres that have been left empty, and that's why one of the new funds that were established was the enforcement fund in 2021 to enable local authorities to undertake enforcement action on prominent town-centre properties or residential properties in any location. Six local authorities have made an application to the fund, including Caerphilly, but there has been a little bit of disappointment, if I'm honest, in terms of the take-up from local authorities in terms of demand in those areas. If Senedd Members could ensure that local authorities are aware of that fund, it would be helpful and important for us to make sure that we don't have dilapidated buildings in the middle of our town centres.

Whilst many of us have moved to internet banking as an option to do our banking, communities still value a physical bank in their town. Lloyds Bank posted profits in this quarter only of £1.3 billion, and yet they are abandoning the residents of Powys. From March next year, there will be no Lloyds Bank left in Powys. They are moving out of Brecon and they have moved out of Ystradgynlais, one of the largest towns in Powys. They're just abandoning residents, particularly older people and people who rely on cash such as our farmers. One of the success stories has been the Welshpool banking hub, which opened over a year ago. So, I'd like to ask the Welsh Government: what are you doing to promote banking hubs and community banks in order to ensure that our town centres remain lively, that people come to them who need the opportunity to bank in person and to promote those opportunities to our residents? Diolch yn fawr iawn.

Thanks very much. You're quite right, Jane, there's been a series of bank closures over a number of years now, and that is something that is of concern, obviously, in particular in those more rural areas. Older people struggle, as you say, but also small businesses. There are a lot of small businesses that like to use those local facilities. But you're also right in pointing out that some of the banking hubs have been quite successful, and we would be encouraging more of those to be set up. The UK Government also has some ideas around this, and, obviously, we're having conversations with them about whether there's anything that they have that could perhaps be of interest to us in seeing if that's something that we could extend to Wales.

Coal tip safety is an issue that has gained urgency in recent weeks. The coal tip that slipped down a mountain in Cwmtillery in heavy rain provoked more than just painful memories. With the mud and sludge, there came worry and anger that our communities are left with these ticking time bombs above their heads. I do welcome the Bill that the Welsh Government published this week. I am concerned, though, that, as drafted, the new coal tip safety regime won't be brought in until 2027. Surely what's happened in recent weeks demands more immediate action. So, alongside this Bill, can you tell me, please, what you're going to do to reassure residents living under these tips that they'll be safe, and can you confirm if, in the meeting you had with Keir Starmer on Friday, you secured Westminster's commitment to giving us the £600 million it will take to clear these tips once and for all? Our communities deserve no less.

Thanks very much. Where I would correct you is that this is not an issue that we have come across recently as a Government; we've been working on this for a number of years. We have been taking this extremely seriously. There are 2,573 disused coal tips in Wales. We have already set up a very comprehensive monitoring and maintenance system that is already in place. We've already allocated over £65 million to local authorities. You will hear more from the Deputy First Minister later today in terms of what we intend to do in future and how the infrastructure will look. But this will be a long-term project; it’s not something you can switch on overnight. But I can assure you that all the coal tips have been set out in different categories, so that those that are most at risk are being monitored more regularly than some of the others.

The responsibility for managing a council’s budget lies with its elected members and senior team. Work by Audit Wales on financial sustainability confirms that, overall, local authorities in Wales continue to manage and plan their budgets effectively in a context of constrained public spending.

Thank you, First Minister. We’ve seen recently, with the devastating scenes across Wales caused by storm Bert and storm Darragh, the essential part that local authorities play in emergency situations, from providing support, updates and advice for residents, to being hands-on in dealing with the impact of flooding first-hand, and we thank them all for what they do. It's essential, therefore, that local authorities are not just funded correctly, but are able to remain financially stable, to ensure that they can cope when awful situations arise, such as the sink hole we saw in Merthyr Tydfil.

We will all be very pleased to see that the Welsh Government has announced grants for victims of these storms. First Minister, can you please provide me with an update on the roll-out of this new grant, and let me know how my constituents are able to access the vital funding, as I’ve already had some, to date, that have not been successful?

Well, thanks very much. And I also would like to pay tribute to the local authorities and the council workers who’ve worked so diligently over the weekend. While most of us were in our beds listening to the howling of the wind, there were people out there making sure that our homes were safe. And I think it’s really important that we pay tribute to them, and to those workers who are still working on behalf of those power companies, connecting those very dangerous power cables under very difficult conditions.

But you’re quite right: it is at times like this that we have to make sure that we have a situation where they are financially viable. You’ll be hearing later about the uplift that will be coming to local authorities after some very difficult years. You heard Andrew Morgan speak on the radio about how, a few years ago, they were looking at a 4 per cent cut; you’ll be looking at more than a 4 per cent increase in the budget in relation to local authorities later on.

So, this is a very different situation from the one we’ve had in the past. I’m really pleased that we haven’t had a council in Wales where we’ve had a section 114 notice. But what we will do is continue to support local authorities, and, of course, we’ll continue to listen to them. When it comes to the additional funding that was announced last week, it’s generally via local authorities, but I’m very happy to send a note around later, to make sure that people know how they should access that fund.

I'm unable to comment on the detail or merits of any planning application that has been called in by the Welsh Ministers, as this could prejudice the final decision.

Thank you. One of those seven applications that has still not been determined is the Cardiff parkway proposal in my constituency. It is based on land allocated for development in the Cardiff local development plan that was approved by Welsh Government planners. More than two years after being called in, and after two planning inspectorate inquiries and reports, the Welsh Government has still not been able to make a decision, with a further delay announced last week. The further representation sought on the schedule of building the rail station first are, of course, already part of a 106 agreement, and arrangements for public transport to the site are not in the developer’s individual gift. All of these questions could, of course, have been asked in the previous two years.

I support the First Minister’s priority to speed up planning decisions to help grow the economy, and I welcome the investment summit that she has already announced for next year. The length of time taken on not making a decision on the parkway is deeply unhelpful, and will not act as a magnet for investment. Will the First Minister confirm that she will take a decision, whichever it is, as soon as practical, to finally give certainty to the parkway? And will she commit to a lessons-learning exercise, so that the Welsh Government does not repeat anywhere else in Wales the lengthy saga that my constituents have been put through over Cardiff parkway?

Thanks very much. You're quite right, this application has taken far too long, and it is important that we try and get a decision, one way or the other, in the next few weeks. Just in relation to the Cardiff parkway development, whilst I don't want to make any further comment, because this is a live application, what I am willing to do is to send you some details on what is within the proposed 106 agreement in relation to Cardiff parkway. And I can assure you that I will be making a decision on this as soon as possible.

You've been promoted, Paul, but not quite to that extent. [Laughter.] Jane Hutt.

Paul Davies.

For a moment, Llywydd, I thought I was in Government. [Laughter.]

Trefnydd, can I request a statement from the Cabinet Secretary for Health and Social Care on the processes to be followed by a health board in the event of a serious incident like a suicide? I understand that the Welsh Government are sent internal investigation reports and closure summaries by health boards following serious incidents and so steps could be taken to improve the process if the Welsh Government wished to do so. I've been working with a family in my constituency whose son sadly took his own life, and they've been calling on the Welsh Government to implement much-needed changes to the system so that improvements are made and lessons are learnt. It's vital that health boards are independently reviewed when serious incidents take place, just as other authorities are, like police forces, for example, because it's not appropriate for health boards to mark their own homework in these particular cases. Therefore, I'd be grateful if the Welsh Government could issue a statement explaining its position on reviewing health board actions when it comes to serious incidents and tell us how those processes are being improved for the future.

Diolch yn fawr, Paul Davies. You have raised a very serious and sensitive issue, and I know that that family will be very grateful for your engagement with them and for drawing it to our attention today in the Senedd. I will share this, of course, with the Cabinet Secretary for Health and Social Care, and, indeed, the Minister for Mental Health and Well-being, and we will look at this and return to you, and obviously we can share any outcomes of the consideration of this important matter.

On the first question, the Cabinet Secretary for Transport and North Wales is committed to bringing forward a debate, he thinks early in the new year. We’re in the process of confirming the exact date of this debate, but I think a debate rather than a statement might be welcome. I hope you’re pleased with that.

I don’t think there’s any question that the Minister for Culture, Skills and Social Partnership would be delighted to make a statement—I’m encouraging him now to say ‘yes’ to that—on the wonderful result in terms of Euro 25 and the Wales women’s football team. I have to say, when I briefly had the responsibility for culture and sport, it was just such a thrill to meet the women’s team. And also for us all and for our young people—. I have to declare an interest that, as a mam-gu, I’m very proud of my granddaughter who’s doing football practice every Saturday morning in Abertawe, and then on Sunday morning she’s actually playing a game, at a very young age. But I think this is an opportunity for us to cover all of the ground that you raise.

At the weekend, I was contacted by family of constituents who work in the Wales Millennium Centre, and they were very distressed that their close relatives were required to travel into work during a red weather warning—from an amber area into a red weather warning area. The Wales Millennium Centre was holding a show at 11.00 a.m. on the Saturday morning, and I had the call on the evening before. I’m told by both the relatives and by other people who are in a position to know very well that the staff weren’t informed that the show was going to be cancelled until 9 a.m. the next morning. And by that time, many staff from my consistency had travelled into Cardiff to be in work for a show that had subsequently been cancelled.

I wrote to the chief executive of the Wales Millennium Centre with these concerns and I had a very bland reply from what was described as the ‘Wales Millennium Centre team’. I asked for a meeting with the chief executive; that hasn’t been agreed. One of the things they said was that they called off the show during the red warning, which I believe is far too late. They said, in preparation for this decision, when reviewing the situation: ‘We noted that all staff rostered during the affected work period were local to our venue, ensuring their ability to travel to work. We maintain an open dialogue with our staff, and encourage them to voice any concerns in a safe and constructive manner.’ I showed this to—

You're going to have to come to the request for a statement now, please.

I showed this to the person who contacted me, and they said it was an outright untruth—the word they used was ‘lie’. Can I ask, therefore, for a statement from the Minister for culture on how they operate warnings and advice to venues such as the millennium centre, and how such a situation like this, which was very unfortunate, can be avoided in future?

Thank you very much, Hefin David. The Welsh Government recommends that the public and businesses heed Government warnings and advice, and encourages everyone to act responsibly. We are reflecting on the weekend. The red warning for wind was active between 3 a.m. and 11 a.m. on Saturday 7 December. It was the first time a UK emergency alert has been issued on a large scale in an emergency situation, issued directly with the Welsh Government alert to 3 million mobile phones. The alert advice was clear that there was a danger to life and the alert advised the public to stay indoors if they could and that it was not safe to drive. So, again, the Welsh Government recommendation is that the public and businesses heed Government warnings.

I’d like to call for a statement from the Cabinet Secretary for local government regarding the bus shelter at the crossroads between Cwm Road and Waterfall Road in Dyserth, which had its roof removed by the council, who have confirmed they will not replace it due to budgetary constraints. The roof was reported unsafe back in 2022, and Denbighshire County Council did nothing about it until this year, when they removed the roof entirely. They then confirmed, to the disappointment of local residents, that they have no plans to replace the roof. This is despite the fact that the council was quoted a measly £4,700 for the roof to be replaced, which is chicken feed when you consider that the council recently overspent on the bin roll-out by over £600,000.

There are many elderly residents in Dyserth who rely on public transport, and they should not have to stand in the rain because Denbighshire County Council blew their budget fixing their own mistakes and couldn't fix the bus shelter. It is also a dereliction of the local authority's duty of care to its residents. So, Trefnydd, can I receive a statement from the Cabinet Secretary outlining the Welsh Government's oversight of Denbighshire County Council's finances and ensure that small but essential repairs continue to be carried out? Thank you.

Well, Gareth Davies, you do draw attention to a number of issues in relation to the region, the constituency and the constituents, who are affected by decisions that are made locally by the local authority, and it is a matter for that local authority, which I'm sure will be very pleased to very shortly hear the draft budget for the next year, in terms of their circumstances and, indeed, the funding that was announced only last week for local authorities.

I call for a statement, please, on GP services in the Valleys and securing their future. A number of GP surgeries in the Valleys were handed over to a management company called eHarley Street earlier this year. As we've heard, many doctors haven't been paid. They are owed thousands of pounds and they are refusing to work. Now, I've been contacted by constituents in Brynmawr and in Bryntirion in Bargoed whose GP practices are managed by this company. They have found it very difficult to get appointments, but when they have made it to the surgeries, they've found empty waiting rooms when they know that demand locally for these appointments is so high. Now, this same company holds the contracts for Gelligaer surgery, for Tredegar and many others across the south-east. I've asked the health board whether due diligence was undertaken into this company when awarding the contracts, but the Welsh Government has oversight over health services. So, can a statement set out what discussions the Government has had with the health board about this and when my constituents can expect their GP surgeries to return to normal? Is it the view of the Government that health boards should be prevented in the future from signing up to this kind of shady arrangement, where a private company, apparently more interested in profit than providing care, is able to so warp the services that people rely on?

Thank you very much, Delyth Jewell. In fact, Alun Davies raised this last week. You probably heard the question and the answer. It is the health board's responsibility in terms of contracting those services. The Cabinet Secretary for Health and Social Care is also aware of this and, indeed, is following this up in terms of the representations that have been made and you've drawn to our attention again today.

Could I ask for a statement from the Welsh Government following the publication of the report into child sexual abuse on Caldey island, which was carried out by Jan Pickles? The report is very damning. For 32 years, children, some from the age of three or four, were groomed and sexually abused by someone they thought they could trust. The report reveals that, when victims reported their abuse, they were dismissed. The report details the experiences of 16 survivors of abuse on Caldey island, but we know that there were more out there and they haven't felt able to come forward. And, of course, the publication of this report and others like it does bring back to all victims of abuse the awful difficulties that they experienced. I was particularly reminded of the Llandrindod Wells school for the deaf, which I have raised here on a number of occasions. I have a constituent who attended that school, where there were allegations of abuse, but there, of course, has been no inquiry. But I think, obviously, inquiries maybe do help those survivors to, in some way, recognise what's happened and maybe come to some sort of conclusion over them. So, I wondered if we could have a statement.

Thank you very much, Julie Morgan, for raising this very important issue. And, as you say, the Diocese of Menevia and current abbot of Caldey island commissioned this independent review on non-recent sexual abuse that took place from the 1960s onwards. The final report has been shared with us, and we're looking at findings and recommendations. But, as you say, we must be grateful to those survivors who have had the courage to pursue this independent review, and we thank them sincerely for engaging in the process, which must have been exceptionally hard to do. Indeed, in 2025, importantly, we're consulting on our national strategy for preventing and responding to child sexual abuse. The fundamental aim of the strategy is to ensure that children, their families and communities understand what child sexual abuse is and what perpetrator behaviours look like, and to empower people to report their concerns to police and social services.

Trefnydd, can we have a statement from the Minister responsible for food standards on the use of Bovaer in Arla food products? Some constituents have raised concerns with me regarding its long-term safety and potential side effects on animal health, the environment and even human health. It would be very useful to get a statement from the Government on the tests that have been conducted to assess these risks, particularly in relation to the effects on animal welfare and the potential for residue in meat and dairy products. Also, what steps is the Welsh Government taking to ensure the comprehensive safety and monitoring of food products containing this substance?

Thank you very much for that question, which, obviously, clearly we will share with the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Secretary for Climate Change and Rural Affairs. This is important in terms of the consultations that have been carried out on regulating animal welfare, but it is also a public health issue, so I will raise it with the Cabinet Secretaries accordingly.

People cannot fail to notice that we're having more storms. We've always had storms, but if you compare the second half of the twentieth century with the first 24 years of the twenty-first century, we've seen an increase in storms and an increase in the number of serious storms, and they seem to be following one after the other very, very quickly. Can the Welsh Government provide a statement on how the voluntary sector has responded to storm Darragh and storm Bert? I am pleased that Sport Wales has opened a storm damage fund. Can the Welsh Government provide an update on how this is operating?

Thank you very much, Mike Hedges. I'm sure we would all like to recognise and thank all those who helped others over the weekend, because volunteers play such a vital part in supporting the most vulnerable in our communities, working in partnership with emergency services. I spoke to the chief executive of the Wales Council for Voluntary Action yesterday. She was meeting with all the councils for voluntary action. Of course, we do fund this infrastructure in Wales—the third sector infrastructure—and I will be writing to all the members to express my thanks. The emergency services rely on volunteers and we can see great examples of communities coming together, supporting the most vulnerable, as we did from storm Bert, as we did through the pandemic, and storm Dennis—the response from communities. 

In terms of the storm damage fund, this is where Sport Wales—. We've provided additional funding to allow Sport Wales to help clubs, as many clubs have been affected, with repair and replacement costs for the damage caused by the recent storms. I know we've heard of roofs being pulled off sports clubs, not-for-profit clubs. So, the storm damage fund opened yesterday until 4 o'clock on Tuesday 17 December, and it will provide grants ranging from £300 up to a maximum of £5,000. But also, just to say, Funding Wales is a portal and a database containing information on a range of local, regional, national, international funding opportunities, and Volunteering Wales is an online portal for people interested in becoming volunteers to register and access information on volunteering opportunities.

But, once again, to thank our communities—. Community cohesion comes to the fore in terms of responding, as they did at the weekend, and continue to do this week, as we said, as people, and vulnerable people, haven't all had their power put back on. And we're also liaising—I'm meeting Ofgem tomorrow—with our energy suppliers on how they are reaching out to vulnerable customers.

I'd like to ask for a statement, please, from the Deputy First Minister on a timeline for the animal welfare plan. On 18 November, the First Minister, in a response to me on a question, said that we would receive the animal welfare plan before Christmas, and yet here we are with no animal welfare plan announced. And this morning, we heard that New Zealand have banned greyhound racing. Within that plan, as you'll know, there is a proposal to ban greyhound racing. We in Wales are one of only nine countries in the world that allow greyhound racing, and the longer the Welsh Government takes to, hopefully, announce a ban, the more greyhounds will die and the more greyhounds will be injured. So, I'd like to ask for a very clear timeline for announcement on the animal welfare plan. The consultation finished in March of this year, so we have been waiting patiently, as have the animal charities. So, I do hope we will get that announcement, possibly before Christmas—I don't know—but, if not, then very soon after. Diolch yn fawr iawn.

Well, thank you very much indeed, Jane Dodds, and thank you for brining this forward, and not just today, but recognising throughout this consultation and beyond that this is a matter of serious concern, particularly in relation to greyhound racing. There is significant public interest in the welfare of racing greyhounds. It's a complex and emotive issue. The previous Cabinet Secretary and officials have met with the owner of Valley stadium, for example, and representatives from the Greyhound Board of Great Britain, to discuss the welfare of racing greyhounds in Wales. Also, the Deputy First Minister has met with the Companion Animal Welfare Group Wales and the Animal Welfare Network Wales this year to discuss greyhound racing. But, the assurance you need is that, on the outcome of the consultation, the responses will be published before Christmas, and the intention of the Deputy First Minister is to simultaneously lay a written statement, and then, as we return in the new year, he will lay out the next steps, which, I'm sure, could be brought to the Senedd with a statement. So, we will publish the results of that consultation and move with pace in terms of the plan.

I'd like to thank Julie Morgan for raising the case of the report by Jan Pickles into the abuse that went on on Caldey island, and I look forward to the debate that we need to have on how we prevent this abuse going on, not necessarily undetected, but unheard.

I was very pleased to read that the UK Government has now reversed the perverse decision by Robert Jenrick, as Minister for Immigration, to limit to a shameful seven days the time from which asylum seekers have to move into their own accommodation once they become refugees. I wondered if you, in your capacity as Cabinet Secretary for Social Justice, are able to give us some indication of the letter that's gone to local authorities, to extend it back to 56 days as a pilot, and then review it in June. I know that, for Cardiff Council, this is a particularly important issue. There were over 700 people who had to be rehoused last year, and, obviously, a similar number, no doubt, this year. And, as Cardiff Council has a policy of housing first and not having anybody sleeping on the street, this is a huge challenge for Cardiff Council. So, is there anything further that you're able to tell us about how we give people a reasonable amount of time to try and find somewhere to live, once they no longer are asylum seekers?

Thank you very much, Jenny. I think the learning, just on the Caldey island review, that's been identified in this review does echo previous reviews, and it will form the evidence base for the strategy, which I mentioned, for preventing and responding to child sexual abuse.

Yes, I very much welcome the UK Government's position to pilot a 56-day refugee move-on period. We've been calling for this as a Welsh Government for many years. It will help to try and prevent homelessness and destitution at the very point when sanctuary seekers need protection, and this has been recognised by the UK Government. I raised it will Dame Angela Eagle when I met with her earlier this term. So, I've written to the UK Minister for Border Security and Asylum, Angela Eagle, to thank her for the pilot. As I say, we're working with our partners in Wales, and, as you say, Cardiff Council—it's so important, that housing first principle, but very challenging, as well, to deliver. We're going to get information about its effectiveness, and we hope the pilot will become a permanent measure beyond June this year, and that's what I'm calling for.

It is very good, Cabinet Secretary, to see that extension to 56 days in this nation of sanctuary that we have in Wales, and I very much look forward to seeing how Welsh Government can help make that pilot a success.

Cabinet Secretary, I wanted to ask about grass-roots sport and physical activity in our most deprived communities in Wales, and ask for a statement from the sports Minister in terms of how we could have an overarching strategy to increase grass-roots sport and physical activity in those communities to help with health and well-being, community development and confidence, working with the clubs that operate there and organisations that work there, but also some of the big players like the Football Association of Wales and the Welsh Rugby Union, the leisure trusts, local authorities and the professional sports clubs, to look at how we could bring all of that together to use the power of sport and fitness for the benefit of those communities in particular.

Thank you very much, John Griffiths, and I've witnessed myself some of those grass-roots activities, those clubs, the support, the volunteers, again, in your constituency, but I know that the Minister for Culture, Skills and Social Partnership will want to respond to this, and I think it would be a really helpful statement to make in the new year. 

Trefnydd, you heard me ask the Prif Weinidog last week about the importance of disaggregated Welsh data and the Ministry of Justice designating Dr Robert Jones as being a vexatious applicant. In a short response to me, the Prif Weinidog said that Dr Robert Jones would be meeting you the following day and that I should be reassured by that. So, following the meeting, Trefnydd, could you provide the Senedd with a statement on when we will routinely have disaggregated Welsh data from the Ministry of Justice, including very important data on the Welsh prison population, the number of Welsh women in prison and ethnic minorities in prison? Also, is Dr Robert Jones still regarded by the Ministry of Justice as a vexatious applicant? Diolch yn fawr.

Diolch yn fawr, Rhys ab Owen, and I'm very glad to have the opportunity to report on my meeting. I had a meeting the following day—on Wednesday—with Dr Robert Jones, but I'd already anticipated the need for a meeting with him when I saw the fact file again—his most recent fact file. I invited Ian Barrow, a senior official in HM Prison and Probation Service, responsible for prison and probation services in Wales. Indeed, I'd already spoken to Ian Barrow about this issue, and he was very keen to address it when we met together and recognised that this was—. Well, we discussed the fact that this was totally inappropriate, this 'vexatious'. We need to move forward, in terms of getting that disaggregation of justice data.

I was very pleased, then, to ask Robert Jones to share with me how this came about, in terms of this response from the Ministry of Justice, so I can take it up formally with the Lord Chancellor, if appropriate, but, I think also, obviously, with the Minister responsible, James Timpson, the Minister for prisons and probation, and also raising it with all of the officials whom I meet in terms of my responsibilities for social justice. So, I do think, now, that we'll see a way forward to get that disaggregated data. I said to Robert Jones that I was very concerned to hear this, because it came from you, here, and that we were addressing it with the new UK Government to ensure that he can do that academic piece of work in an appropriate way with that disaggregated data.

Llywydd, let me begin with the income side of today's draft budget. Consistent with the basic principles of prudent management, my aim has been to maximise the resources available to my colleagues, to citizens and to the things that matter most to them.

The largest building block in the income available to the Senedd for next year comes, of course, through our membership of the United Kingdom, as mediated through the fiscal framework. That framework has delivered over £3 billion in additional investment for Welsh citizens since it was negotiated in 2016. And our membership of a Labour-led United Kingdom delivers a great deal more. Because of the step change away from austerity, the block grant for next year stands at £21 billion: £17.7 billion provides for day-to-day or revenue spending, and £3.4 billion is for investment, or capital spending. And of that very significant sum, almost £1 billion is new money for 2025-26.

Now, the second building block in today's draft budget comes through the money raised by decisions taken in this Senedd. Welsh rates of income tax are expected to raise £3.462 billion in 2025-26, and, for the reasons I rehearsed in front of the Finance Committee earlier in the autumn, the Cabinet has decided to leave those rates unchanged for the purposes of this budget.

Llywydd, the 2017 Wales Act transferred responsibility for two other taxes to this Senedd. Land transaction tax is forecast to raise £338 million in the next financial year. In the October UK budget, the Chancellor raised the higher rate on the purchase of additional residential properties, in the equivalent tax in England and Northern Ireland, by 2 per cent. Today, as a result of this draft budget, higher rates in Wales will be raised by 1 per cent, bringing that rate broadly into line with changes to stamp duty land tax across our border, and this decision is expected to raise an additional £7 million for public services next year. At the same time, I will be making changes to the current arrangements for claiming multiple dwelling relief to remove a current unfairness that allows some purchasers to benefit both from this relief and subsidiary dwelling exemption in the same transaction. This budget will end that loophole.

The threshold at which land transaction tax becomes payable in Wales stands at £225,000. The latest data shows that the current average cost of a property in Wales is £217,000, and, for first-time buyers, £188,000. Some 60 per cent of homes in Wales are sold for below the threshold. I therefore plan to leave it at its current level for a further year.

Llywydd, landfill disposal tax is a very modest tax designed to influence behaviour as much, if not more, than raising funds. Today, I propose to make changes to the rates of LDT because the tax is no longer working hard enough to reduce the disposal of waste to landfill, as confirmed in the recent independent review of the tax. In this draft budget, therefore, I intend to raise the standard rate of LDT to £126.15 per tonne, and to alter the lower rate from a fixed sum to a fixed percentage of the standard rate. For next year, that percentage will be fixed at 5 per cent, raising the lower rate to £6.30 per tonne. Llywydd, I intend to keep the operation of this tax under close observation during 2025. I will not hesitate to raise the percentage of the lower rate again if the evidence does not demonstrate its effectiveness in the diversion of waste away from landfill. As a result of all these decisions, landfill disposal tax is next year forecast to raise £32 million.

Finally in these fiscal matters, I turn to non-domestic rates, which in 2025-26 are expected to have a gross value of more than £1.4 billion. That figure, however, takes no account of the reliefs provided to those ratepayers. Next year, the draft budget in front of Members contains £250 million in permanent non-domestic rate relief, which now includes 100 per cent support to all registered childcare providers. In addition to this, I have allocated a further £78 million to provide a sixth and final year of retail, leisure and hospitality temporary rates relief, which will once again be set at 40 per cent. Since this temporary relief was introduced for retail, leisure and hospitality businesses in 2020-21, Welsh taxpayers have supported these sectors with an additional £1 billion.

The draft budget also reflects a decision once again to hold the non-domestic rates multiplier at below the level of inflation. I have decided to use the full value of the consequential derived from multiplier decisions in England to benefit businesses in Wales. In 2025-26, the multiplier in Wales will rise by 1 per cent at a permanent cost of a further £7 million. Taken together, these decisions mean that £335 million will be devoted to non-domestic rates support in Wales in the next financial year. It is because of these decisions that almost half of all such ratepayers will continue to benefit from full non-domestic rate relief, with fewer than one third of all Welsh businesses paying full rates. These combined fiscal decisions, those that are devolved to Wales, will contribute more than £4 billion to the draft budget laid today.

But, Llywydd, a further number of important decisions influence the total resources available in next year’s budget. I confirm this afternoon that, once again this year, I intend to make maximum use of the borrowing capacity of the Welsh Government, adding a further £150 million in capital expenditure in the 2025-26 draft budget. Llywydd, local authorities in Wales are also able to borrow for investment purposes. In co-operation with local government colleagues, I have decided to provide revenue support that will enable local authorities to self-finance £60 million of further capital funding to be spent in a new programme of local highway maintenance, further extending our capital programme for next year and the contribution that Wales can make to reinvigorating growth in our economy. And when all of this is drawn together, the capital budget of the Welsh Government in 2025-26 will exceed £3 billion for the first time in the devolution era.

Llywydd, finally, in this income side of the equation, I want to set out the interaction between moneys raised through the United Kingdom and moneys raised directly in Wales, or the block grant adjustment mechanism, as it is known. The bargain at the heart of the Wales Act 2017 in its fiscal devolution was this: if, in Wales, we managed our new devolved responsibilities more successfully than across the United Kingdom as a whole, we would see the financial benefit. Conversely, if matters were managed less successfully, we would have to pay the penalty in reduced funding from the UK Government. By now, Llywydd, we have sufficient data and sufficient evidence to draw some first conclusions.

In this draft budget, that additional resource available to Wales, as a result of the application of the block grant adjustment, is an additional £317 million. That is made up of £253 million net contribution from Welsh rates of income tax, £44 million in net positive impact from land transaction tax and £19 million from landfill disposals tax. Llywydd, I pay tribute to my predecessor Rebecca Evans and our excellent teams at the Welsh Treasury and the Welsh Revenue Authority for their management of the Welsh budget and our fiscal responsibilities over the period since 2017, in ways that have contributed to this significantly positive outcome.

Llywydd, when all these elements are taken together, the total amount available to allocate in the 2025-26 budget is £26.218 billion. And even then, the story is not complete. Next year’s budget follows in-year allocations and additional funding for above-inflation pay rises in the current financial year. Next year's budget already begins from a higher baseline than would ever have been the case had we been reliant on the plans of the previous Government.

Llywydd, I have set out in some detail the ways in which the sum available to us next year has been built up, because I want to emphasise a point that successive finance Ministers have made on the floor of this Senedd. The totals I have outlined this afternoon represent the maximum amount available for expenditure next year. When committees and other political parties propose that more should be allocated to various other priorities or purposes, the only way that can happen is to spend less on something else. Of course I will listen very carefully to any such proposals, but I will look just as carefully at proposals for reducing expenditure when additional funding is proposed, because that is the only responsible way in which budget making can be conducted.

Llywydd, I turn now to the expenditure proposals contained in this draft budget. Members will already have seen the headline allocations in the documentation published earlier this afternoon, and I will not repeat them here, because it will be for individual Cabinet colleagues to set out the detail of how their budgets are to be used. I will simply set out the global sums.

This draft budget provides an additional £610 million to the health and social services portfolio, of which £175 million is capital expenditure. This represents a striking 70 per cent uplift in capital for our health service, a figure far in excess of anything that has been possible in the last 14 years, and a figure takes the total capital budget for health service purposes to more than £600 million next year.

The housing and local government budget rises by £400 million, including £120 million in capital funding. My colleague Jayne Bryant will set out the local government settlement when it is published tomorrow. Education spending rises by £112 million, the bulk of which comes as revenue. Transport sees an increase of £120.7 million for improvements to our roads and public transport. The budget of the economy, energy and planning department rises by £140.5 million, including substantial further investments in city and growth deals. The climate change and rural affairs main expenditure group goes up by £108 million. Social justice, the smallest budget of all in the Welsh Government, rises by £10 million, including a 23 per cent increase in capital.

Llywydd, I end by setting out four key principles that have guided the Cabinet in coming to the decisions that lie behind these figures. First of all, we have ensured that the First Minister’s four priorities, which reflect the things that matter most to people throughout Wales, are fully reflected in these allocations. My colleagues will provide further details about these plans, but the funding available is there to ensure that we can make real and rapid progress in, for example, improving women’s health services, accelerating the planning system, improving school attendance, securing coal tip safety, and the core Valleys lines transformational project.

Secondly, Llywydd, in an era of climate change, where Wales has seen so vividly the result of extreme weather events over recent weeks, this is a budget shaped by the responsibilities that flow directly from the Well-being of Future Generations (Wales) Act 2015, investing in the preventative actions we can take today to safeguard the interests of those who will come beyond us. 

Thirdly, Llywydd, this is emphatically a budget that puts us firmly back on the path to growth. We know that public investment, wisely used, acts to crowd in investment from private sources. The £575 million additional capital being allocated in this draft budget will do exactly that, stimulating private companies in the construction industry, taking forward our ambitions for the renewable energy economy of the future, and paving the way for the investment summit, which the First Minister will lead later next year.

Lastly, Llywydd, it is, as any Labour Government would be proud to produce, a budget that protects our most vulnerable. Alongside the draft budget, I have published a distributional analysis that shows where the benefits of today's allocations will be most keenly felt. In sector after sector, in health, education, higher education, bus travel and social care, this is a budget that increases spending most of all on the 20 per cent of our population that has the least.

It is a budget, Llywydd, for priorities. It is a budget for growth, and it is a budget that reminds people in Wales why, time after time, they have put their faith in a Labour Government, a Government that shares their values of trust, ambition, care for one another, and especially those who need that care the most. And that, Llywydd, is why this is a budget for hope, a budget that sets out on that path to deliver a brighter future, and I commend it to the Senedd. [Applause.]

First, can I thank you, Cabinet Secretary, for your engagement with me ahead of this and other fiscal events? It's very much appreciated. It's very difficult to try and wade through 39 pages of budget statement in a quarter of an hour. 

Llywydd, as I've said many times before in this Chamber, leadership is all about choices, taking responsibility for those choices, and we hear Labour constantly in this Chamber blaming the Conservatives for everything that goes wrong here in Wales, despite the fact that they have been in power here for over 25 years. It's now time that the Labour Government took responsibility for their record here: the longest NHS waiting lists in the United Kingdom; the weakest economy and lowest pay in Great Britain; and a shocking decline in educational standards, leaving some pupils functionally illiterate. And now that we have a Labour Government in Westminster, the picture as a whole looks increasingly bleak.

The UK Government demonstrated in a matter of days where their priorities lay. We saw Labour take away winter fuel allowances from the most vulnerable in society at the same time as agreeing inflation-busting pay rises to pacify their union masters. [Interruption.] I would have hoped—[Interruption.] I would have hoped to have seen in this draft budget schemes for pensioners in Wales who fall outside the threshold for the winter fuel allowance, but sadly it looks like they're going to face a dark and cold winter. Experts have said that, thanks to Labour's first budget, growth is expected to slow once their tax and spend frenzy is over, and it's no wonder. [Interruption.] 

Will the Member give way?

Do I have to? Yes. Go on.

This is a debate. Here we go again: you tell us about the complaints regarding the revenue measures that we've been forced to raise because of the black hole your Government left, and you haven't said how you would fill the hole. A Government has to fill the hole left. You're all talk.

Well, thank you, Lee. I won't answer that now, because I'm going to come on to that in a second.

So, yes, as I said, we hear about economic growth here being a priority in Wales, but how can that happen when both Labour Governments just don't understand business, and they stand in the way of the growth of business? [Interruption.] We know—[Interruption.] If you listen, we know the UK Labour Party are going to levy tax on growth—[Interruption.]

Peter, one second. I would like to hear the contributions from all Members, so please give them a chance to speak so that I can hear them.

Yes, give me a chance. We know that the Labour Party are going to levy a tax on growth in the form of national insurance rises, making it more expensive for small and medium-sized enterprises to hire staff. How is that going to solve the fact that Wales has the highest unemployment rates in the United Kingdom and an underperforming economy? There is little in this draft budget to change that. We know that Labour will try and use, as we've just heard, the fictitious black hole to justify their actions and choices, despite the fact that the UK had the fastest growth in the G7 before Labour took over. We know growth is now forecast to shrink in a couple of years, once Labour have spent all the money once again.

Yes, the Welsh Government’s budget has increased this year, but that is largely down to Labour’s increased taxes and vast amounts of borrowing, which, in the main, will be paid for by small businesses, and, ultimately, working people, and will leave our grandchildren with huge debts around their necks. Whilst Labour here are celebrating this new money, I ask, as many have, where are the billions in HS2 consequentials that Labour have been calling for, and challenged us on in this Chamber every time they could raise it? Our infrastructure is creaking, and we need that money. Labour here should join us in standing up for the people of Wales and call for the billions that Wales is owed.

Of course, we all welcome the increased investment in public services. But the reality is that much of the consequentials of the UK Government are the result of a maxed-out credit card by the Labour Chancellor. Whilst money for pay increases may be baselined, the rest of the money will not be recurring, so, once it’s gone, it’s gone, and it has to be used carefully, to best effect.

Every year, funding for our NHS increases, but, at the same time, our waiting lists continue to hit record-breaking levels. Clearly, something is going wrong with the strategy, and the increased NHS funding is not solving the healthcare crisis. I hope, therefore, that the Labour Government will listen to our calls and commission an independent review into operational systems within hospitals and secondary care provision, to ensure that every penny is spent efficiently. I personally believe this should be led by clinicians and health professionals, together with business mentors. It would not only lead to best models of practice; it would identify systems weaknesses and drive financial efficiencies.

Sadly, every health board in Wales is under some form of enhanced monitoring or special measures at the moment. Things can’t go on like this. To make matters worse, we are still far too reliant on agency staff and locums to fill our staffing gaps in Wales. An eye-watering £0.25 billion was spent on agency staff to fill vacant NHS shifts here in Wales last year. Clearly, much more needs to be done to recruit and retain our NHS staff, to vastly reduce expenditure and relieve stress on those currently working in the health system.

I’m pleased that more money has been allocated to social care—a move that we have long called for. Social care, including children and adult services, are a huge part of the £560 million financial pressure that our local authorities are facing. I fear, though, that the balance of investment is still not right, and not recognising that the pressure in social care is the fundamental barrier to unblocking our health system. I am also concerned that the additional £252 million to local government, while welcome, will still leave around £300 million-worth of financial pressures on our councils, which will inevitably end up costing hard-working families in the form of additional council tax rises. The 4.3 per cent increase will still leave several councils facing a cliff edge, I fear. However, the allocating of £5 million revenue to service £60 million-worth of local government borrowing for road and infrastructure repairs is welcome, and something I would have advocated for myself.

When it comes to the economy, to paraphrase a former Minister who has already spoken today, it really is obvious that Labour don’t know what they are doing when it comes to the economy. As I have previously said, both Labour Governments say that they want growth, but the fact is that they stand in the way of growth. They should be creating the conditions where businesses can grow and thrive, not the opposite. Welsh businesses are paying the highest business rates in the United Kingdom, with small businesses in Wales still paying the same rate as large ones, despite Cabinet Ministers having the power to change that. However, I do welcome that the multiplier will be maintained at 1 per cent.

I’m glad to see that the Welsh Government has finally seen sense, and is ensuring that businesses in retail, hospitality and the leisure sector in Wales get the same business rate relief as their counterparts in England—something that didn’t happen last year, with businesses in Wales paying double the business rates of their competitors across the border. Sadly, businesses are still being lumped with the increase of national insurance contributions, as a result of UK Labour’s broken manifesto pledge. To make matters worse, it is still not clear whether, despite all that has been said, the UK Government will fully fund the public sector to pay for Labour’s latest tax hike on employers.

We welcome the additional funding for local government and the education system, some of which was announced last week for the current year. However, something is clearly going wrong. The additional capital will be welcome. However, the Welsh Government continues to fail to address absenteeism, and has long failed to address the falling standards in our schools. How can our future generations hope to build a better Wales if many are starting high school functionally illiterate? Our educational system is absolutely fundamental to the future of our children and the future of Wales, yet the future of our young people is massively threatened as a direct consequence of 25 years of Labour's poor management of education.

Turning to rural affairs, I welcome the fact that the rural affairs budget has increased. However, last year's cut saw £62 million taken away, a relative 13 per cent cut, the largest of any departmental budget. So, the rise that we're seeing now only makes up for about half of that, and the rural community will still remain concerned. This has to be made good in real terms. We can't see continued disinvestment and decline in our countryside and its economy. The simple truth is that our rural communities are facing extreme pressure and adversity from Governments at both ends of the M4. This can't continue if we care about Wales.

Llywydd, my colleagues and I believe that this draft budget will miss the mark when it comes to the priorities of the people of Wales in many ways. Sadly, families and businesses across Wales will continue to be let down by Labour. They need to realise that it doesn't have to be this way in Wales.

It is remarkable, when we think about previous budget debates, where we heard Conservative benches that said that Wales had plentiful funding. We cannot forget the impact of 14 years of austerity, but neither can we forget the promises that were made, for years, in the run-up to the UK election—promises that a change of UK Government and having two Labour Governments working at both ends of the M4 would be a game changer for Wales. And of course, whilst it's true that there is additional funding in this budget—and of course that is to be welcomed—we have to remind ourselves that the funding made available to the Welsh Government falls short of the funding Wales is owed. And also, at 1.3 per cent, we've received the lowest real-terms increase of all the devolved nations in resource funding up to 2025-26. So, it's hardly the transformational change that the people of Wales were promised.

Just imagine what we could do with the billions of pounds owed to us from HS2, if we could retain the vast wealth of our natural resources, and also if we had a funding model based on population need rather than the outdated Barnett formula. Without this, it is clear that, despite the uplift, many sectors will still be left broken and uncertain about the future. Cuts will still have to be made, council tax will have to rise, and the backlog across the NHS estate will remain incredibly high. So, yes, the investment is welcome, but it's a drop in the ocean of what's needed.

It's also important to note that, of the £1.7 billion in additional funding for the Welsh budget over the next two financial years, a large chunk will have to be swallowed up to offset the UK Government's short-sighted decision to increase employer national insurance contributions without reimbursing the cost for organisations and businesses that fall outside of the public sector, including third sector organisations and GP services, and so on. I'm sure I'm not the only Member that's been contacted and inundated with messages from organisations in my region, such as Citizens Advice, outlining the devastating impact that this will have on their ability to support some of our most vulnerable constituents. I would be grateful, therefore, if the Cabinet Secretary could outline in his response to this debate the outcome of his discussions on this issue with the UK Chancellor, and if he's had any clarity yet on whether the UK Government are going to take steps to put right the damaging and unintended consequences of this decision.

It's clear, therefore, that this budget will largely be used to plug the gaps created by Westminster, and also by Labour mismanagement, rather than tackle some of the very real problems faced by so many of our communities. The fact that the Scottish Government has been able to introduce radical solutions to counteract the corrosive impact of the two-child benefit cap and the withdrawal of the winter fuel allowance also underlines the detrimental real-world consequences of this Government’s reluctance to seek further devolved powers. Do you not now regret that we don’t have the same levers available to us as Scotland has, when you’re seeing that they’re able to take steps to protect their most vulnerable residents? In the meantime, whilst the Welsh Government seems to settle and even welcome a fundamentally unfair settlement, our public services continue to face unrelenting pressures with resources stretched to breaking point—a damning indictment of the UK Labour Government’s failure to bring the disastrous era of austerity to a conclusion.

In terms of local government, there's an increase of 4.3 per cent on average. I attended a recent briefing organised by the WLGA where they were very clear that 5 per cent should be a minimum for all. What will this mean for so many services in our communities? It will be devastating. So, the headlines may look like good news, but it’s not good news for our local authorities that deliver these vital services. It’s also worth emphasising that the quantum of funding alone does not in and of itself guarantee success, it’s how the money is spent that’s important, and on this front the Government’s track record leaves a lot to be desired. Whilst the health budget in particular has grown significantly in recent years, we’ve seen little to no improvement on issues such as waiting lists, ambulance response times and targets for cancer treatment. So, why should we expect any different this time around?

The diminished returns from this Government’s spending on costly sticking-plaster solutions also means less money for practically every other policy area, leaving our universities facing an existential crisis, our schools infrastructure in a decrepit state, and an arts and culture sector looking with envy to Scotland and Ireland, where there has been a significant uplift.

As a county councillor living through the decade and more of austerity, I will never forget the pain of trying to keep front-line services going while having to deliver year after year of cuts and efficiencies, impacting on people’s lives. Because of the terrible ideology of wanting a smaller public state, it went too far.

I remember, in 2017, Philip Hammond saying we needed to tighten the belt even further, but there were no holes left on the proverbial belt. We then had Brexit impacting Wales. We were net beneficiaries. Then there was the pandemic and the massive inflation caused by the Truss budget. No investment in UK energy and industry and no resilience. The economy crashed, along with public services and many of the jobs they support, especially here in Wales.

Thank goodness we have a UK Government who have brought change and hope, who will be funding the much-needed public sector pay increases and our public services, the building blocks of our economy. We can’t grow the economy without our public services and without educating people, without public transport, without housing, without keeping our workforce healthy. I will not forget the pain of having to make difficult decisions. History cannot be rewritten by the Conservatives, no matter how they try to repackage it.

I realised when I became an MS that the Senedd is just like a big council, having to work with a budget that is dealt by the UK Government, with minimum borrowing powers and tax-raising powers. We don’t have many high earners in Wales, and 90 per cent of the budget goes on public services. Over half the budget goes on health. Then there's local government, Natural Resources Wales, Transport for Wales, farming subsidies, just to name a few. Councils are facing a crisis, with rising costs and increased demand for services. And as the leader of Flintshire County Council says, having made £126 million of efficiencies, the steam roller has gone over the orange; there is nothing left to squeeze.

The previous leadership of Conwy County Borough Council cut services and used reserves rather than put up council taxes, so they have no resilience and are cut to the bone, but are desperate to deliver for their residents under increasing pressure. Thank goodness, the new leadership have been innovative and have started investing in council housing again, using the Welsh Government's grant funding available to them. I understand that 14 years of austerity cannot be undone in one financial year, but I welcome the first step. In fact, it was a huge relief to hear the budget when it was announced. 

We've seen the impact of flooding and landslides and the value of having public services and funding to help people in times of need. These are our public services. We have an older, sicker population and children who need extra support having been born during the pandemic. We're all asking for extra money for additional learning needs. When councils consistently receive low funding, they are unable to build resilience or keep reserves. I'm concerned that several north Wales councils, including Wrexham, have said that they have run out of capital for match funding. So, I'm hoping that the Welsh Government will be able to work with them.

I've attended meetings where the north Wales health board have asked for capital to invest in IT, which will help to improve the productivity of the health service, along with new machinery and equipment, and investment in buildings. So, hopefully, the Royal Alexandra Hospital refurbishment in Denbighshire can now go ahead, now that the taps have been turned on. I know that having this capital investment, this massive increase in capital money, can help our health service so that they can deliver the services. The capital can help, in a way, with the revenue. 

I'm glad to see investment in roads and pavements as a priority of the First Minister; it's been one of mine for the last three years. I was in Connah's Quay in the summer with the First Minister, and I think nearly every resident said, 'Can we fix the holes in the roads?' And I didn't set it up, honestly. I know that because councils have been struggling with workforces decreasing over the years and austerity, so being able to deliver this capital investment in a year—. So, I was wondering if the Cabinet Secretary could say how he'll be using the Welsh reserves next year to help with that resilience and, maybe, the two-year programme. That would be really useful. 

So, I just want to say finally that this change—. I watched the budget year upon year over 14 years, and it was dismal and depressing, but it feels like finally there's hope and we can provide decent services again for people. People just want a decent life. So, I'm happy to support this budget. Thank you. 

During his Mansion House speech in 2005, Gordon Brown paid homage to the assembled ranks of bankers, noting 'your unique innovative skills, your courage and steadfastness'. He thanked them 'for the outstanding, the invaluable contribution you make to the prosperity of Britain'. When he returned in 2007 to deliver his final Mansion House speech as Chancellor before he moved into No. 10, he proclaimed that a 'new world order has been created', that Britain was 'a new world leader', thanks to 'your efforts, ingenuity and creativity'. He congratulated himself for resisting pressure to toughen up regulation of their activities. The 2008 financial crash followed and, in 2010, Labour bequeathed the worst budget deficit in the G20 and austerity. In the EU, the UK deficit was behind only Ireland and Greece. Bail-out and bigger, imposed cuts followed for them after they tried to follow the economic policies advocated by Labour and Plaid Cymru.

In blaming the fiscal black hole Labour claims to have discovered after the UK general election on 4 July, about which the UK Treasury has refused to provide key details, she failed to mention either that when Labour left office in 2010, the UK deficit stood at 10.3 per cent of GDP, but when the Conservatives left office this year, the UK deficit stood at 4.4 per cent of GDP, despite having had to borrow billions to support people and the economy through the pandemic and the global cost-of-living crisis, or that a chunk of the claimed black hole is down to political decisions taken by the new UK Labour Government since 4 July. As Paul Johnson, director of the Institute for Fiscal Studies think tank said, Chancellor Rachel Reeves 

'may be overegging the £22bn black hole'. 

When speaking to the Mansion House audience last month, Rachel Reeves described what they do as the jewel in the crown of the British economy. She then went on to explain why she felt it was time to relax regulations to provide the City with the opportunity to grow the economy as they would wish. Reeves should have learnt from Brown: such comments always come before a crash. In reality, a return to boom and bust is threatened by the 'grim Reever'. 

As the head of the Institute for Fiscal Studies think tank stated, measures in her budget last October were likely to keep inflation and interest rates higher, resulting in slower growth in later years. The Confederation of British Industry's post-budget survey revealed that nearly two thirds of firms reported that the budget would damage UK investment, with half of firms looking to reduce headcount as a result. Overall, this will therefore mean lower tax revenues, lower Government spending, cuts to vital services and consequent additional pressure on public services.

One of the damaging consequences of the UK Government's recent budget was the national insurance hike on charities and third sector bodies. Office for Budget Responsibility figures show the average annual tax increase for employers will be in excess of £800 per employee. With approximately 134,500 people working in the Welsh voluntary sector, even with part-time work, this would suggest a total increase in the sector's national insurance bill of around £100 million a year. As the Wales Council for Voluntary Action states:

'Many voluntary organisations in Wales operate under tight financial constraints and play a vital role in delivering essential services alongside the public sector, yet only public sector employers are set to be reimbursed for these increased costs.

This is a significant new cost, they said,

'that many organisations simply cannot absorb without a corresponding impact on their service delivery.'

The Welsh Government relies on these vital services, which will only be safeguarded if the Welsh Government supports the charitable sector and mitigates this short-sighted policy. This applies to bodies ranging from hospices in Wales, facing serious financial challenges and having to consider significant cuts, which would leave huge gaps in provision for the communities they serve that the health boards won't be able to replace, to Welsh Women's Aid, facing increasing costs, impossible decisions and tight budgets, to member-led charity Adferiad, providing help and support for people with mental health, addiction and co-occurring and complex needs, who told me last Friday that, on national insurance alone, the Chancellor's budget will cost them £600,000 a year, and without mitigation they will have to let staff go and reduce services. Unless the Welsh Government's budget enables the vital services provided by organisations such as these to continue and grow, the resource demand on statutory public services will grow exponentially. Diolch yn fawr.

There's also the £262 million on agency staff, due to an inability to address large gaps in the workforce; £10 million spent on an optometry electronic patient record system that's yet to see the light of day; £14 million to redesign the Grange hospital, less than four years after it was first opened; and the high-risk-maintenance backlog in the NHS estate ballooning to almost £0.25 billion. So, what is the optimal level of yearly spending on agency fees that the Welsh Government is aiming to reach? All the while, funding for preventative measures is being cut. ASH Cymru, for instance, a charity that has helped so many people to stop smoking, and is currently doing key work on vapes and tobacco, is an example of a successful preventative project. So, can the Cabinet Secretary detail how much have preventative and primary care budget lines increased in real terms relative to the previous financial year? And with ASH Cymru, for instance, will the funding continue?

I note with dismay the lack of focus on the care sector, with what looks, at first glance, like a real-terms cut. Perhaps the Cabinet Secretary will want to clarify. Tens of thousands of unpaid carers depend on the short break scheme and the carer support fund, for instance. So, in his response, it would be appreciated if the Cabinet Secretary could confirm the level of funding for these funds. And if we are serious about getting to grips with the omnicrises facing our health service, then the social care sector must be funded properly, and it would be good to hear the rationale as to why the care sector continues to be the cinderella service.

Meanwhile, the continuation of austerity measures by their partners in power at Westminster, such as the withdrawal of the winter fuel allowance from thousands of Welsh pensioners, will exacerbate demand on already overstretched health services. Furthermore, the decision to increase employer NICs will lead to substantial additional costs next year for third sector organisations and GP practices that work closely with NHS health boards. So, what proportion of the uplift to the health and social care MEG will be used to offset the rise in employer NICs amongst GPs and third sector health organisations? And most damningly of all is the refusal of the Labour UK Government to replace the outdated Barnett formula. The funding we receive back from Westminster remains fundamentally misaligned with the health needs of our population. This is the false economy on which the NHS now teeters. So, while the NHS does need further investment, it also needs resources to be spent wisely, and this Government has shown itself utterly incapable of doing so. So, can the Cabinet Secretary confirm what discussions he's had with the Chancellor and the Prime Minister regarding ensuring fair funding for Wales?

I'll start off by welcoming the extra £1.5 billion for our public services and priorities, putting Wales back on the path to growth. This is money that is going to benefit all of us and all our constituents. I'm also pleased the Government is allocating more than £3 billion of capital in the draft budget. Most of that money, if not all of it, will actually go into the private sector, so it'll actually help drive the economy. I think sometimes there's a confusion between the private and public sector, that public sector money spent on development actually makes its way into the private sector.

But I've only got one that I really want to get across. Can the finance Cabinet Secretary make available to Conservative and Plaid Cymru spokespeople all the information they need to produce an alternative budget? They say they do not have the information to do so, and that excuses them that they can't provide it. Will the Cabinet Secretary provide any information they want on the budget so they can produce their own budget?

And all the civil service.

I understand that you haven't got the capacity to do it, but that's a different matter. 

The Conservative policy is straightforward. They oppose all tax rises. They oppose all new taxes. They oppose borrowing. They support additional money being spent across portfolios, with their small suggestions of savings being really small. The Scottish National Party in Scotland offered to collect all taxes in Scotland and provide their share of the costs incurred by the Westminster Government on areas such as state pension, defence, et cetera. Do Plaid Cymru want to do the same, because, the last time I saw it, they solved that problem by not funding the state pension?

The budget debate consists of a discussion about how much to spend in different areas. Isn't that good that we're not talking about cuts; we're talking about spending? The ability to vary income tax is an unusable power. Increase tax rates and people who have a choice on where they register will not register in Wales, and there will be an opposition to higher taxes in Wales than in England. Decrease them, and you reduce funding for public services. What action is being taken on increasing land transaction tax income without changing the rate by being more effective and efficient in the collection of that money? Also, I was very pleased with what the Cabinet Secretary said about landfill disposals tax, because it's an environment tax, not a means of raising money, and it needs to be set at such a level that throwing things in the ground becomes economically unviable.

I just want to talk about some priority spending areas, and, within health, primary care, diagnostics and health promotion. General practice sees approximately 90 per cent of all patient visits. It needs to be adequately funded. At a minimum, the proportion of the health budget spent on primary care needs protecting, but an increase is what is needed. Continually, the share of health budgets spent on primary care has reduced. This is what happened when primary care and secondary care were put under the health boards. We continue to hold health debates and, be it dementia or cancer, we unanimously agree on the importance of early diagnosis. This means spending on diagnostic tools. Health improvement is critical. Social prescribing leads to reduced obesity and increased fitness.

The weakness of the Welsh economy is that we have too few high-paid jobs in the high-wage economic sectors and growth sectors such as ICT and life sciences, which I seem to mention every week, and green energy. This works well around the world by Governments supporting the university sector. Education is the key to a successful economy. Support by Governments of schools and colleges improves skills and economic success should follow.

Local government provides not just social care and education, but a whole range of services, from leisure and parks to the environment and roads. It is important that local government is adequately funded. Social care is key to not only improving hospital throughput but also decreasing hospital admissions. If people can get access to social care early enough, then they don't deteriorate to such an extent that they end up going into hospital. Then, when they're in hospital and come out of hospital, they lose capacity while they're in hospital for a week or two weeks or even longer, and then they can't go back into their own homes. Getting social care working will reduce the number of people actually ending up in hospitals.

Finally, something I talk about a lot: we need to improve efficiency and productivity in both the private and public sectors. How many cataract operations should the average eye doctor undertake during a year? I don't know. Does anybody know? We need to have set levels of what we expect people to achieve, and then we can not punish them for not achieving it, but we can hold them to account for not achieving it.

Firstly, I'd like to start by thanking the Cabinet Secretary for his engagement with myself. I do welcome some of the commitments outlined in the draft budget we have here today, particularly the increase in the spending on health, and that there are no cuts to budget areas as there were last year.

I just want to highlight a few areas, if I may. Just following on from Mike Hedges, I want to highlight the social care sector. Care Forum Wales has warned that the current crisis in care is as great a threat as COVID itself, with funding gaps that can no longer be ignored. Care homes in Wales are not huge businesses. They are small to medium businesses. But the rise in national insurance will cost them around £40 million to £50 million. So, I would like to join with the other parties here to ask you to press the UK Government to exempt the care sector from the national insurance increases. In Powys, we're seeing an increase in our care budget by around £4.4 million, driven by the increase in care in national insurance payments, but also the growing complexity of care needs that there is. Obviously, social care and health are deeply interconnected; one cannot succeed without the other, and we need an increase in spending on both areas. So, I do urge the Welsh Government, and I’d like to hear further from the Cabinet Secretary about options, to look at how we increase hospital discharges but also, as Mike Hedges has said, keeping people actually in their own homes.

Beyond adult social care, our local authorities face enormous financial pressures. They have, according to the Welsh Local Government Association, a cumulative funding gap in the next three years of nearly £1.2 billion. These aren’t just abstract numbers; they are losses that reshape our communities. Our libraries, our playgrounds, our leisure centres, once vibrant community hubs, are disappearing, seemingly never to return. One-off funding packages do offer short-term relief, but they fall far short of what’s needed in order for us to maintain these cherished spaces. Therefore, I’d like to hear from the Cabinet Secretary about what additional support the Welsh Government can offer to local authorities to protect our community assets and infrastructure.

Turning to the environment, this year we have heard a succession of distressing revelations around water pollution. And despite water companies suffering multiple penalties for their dismal performances, they continue to misuse our funds and to pay their chief executives and senior staff eye-watering bonuses. They can’t keep getting away with this. And on the other hand, we have Natural Resources Wales being starved of funds. We’ve seen them close some of our excellent community and visitor centres, and they are at the heart of our communities in relation to helping to tackle water pollution, so I’d like to hear, if possible, how the Cabinet Secretary will increase funding to bodies like NRW in order to help them better police sewage breaches.

Finally, I want to turn to an area that I feel very passionate about, and that’s child poverty. Once again, we keep bringing back to the Welsh Government the fact that we have 28 per cent of our children here in Wales poor; that keeps rising, sadly, every year, and we keep seeing, sadly, not just a direct effect on our children here in Wales as they grow up and don’t have the benefits that other children have, but it affects our economy. And one of the big things that we can do, apart from—. Once again, I plead with the Welsh Government to say to the UK Government that they have to get rid of the two-child benefit cap; apart from that, we can increase childcare. And if we do that, that will not only help our economy and get parents back into work, but that will also help our children have a better start in life and give them the opportunities that they need. We cannot be stagnant in our response to the fact that child poverty isn’t moving. The Welsh Government must acknowledge what multiple reports, the sector and thousands of parents already know, that childcare is an investment in the future of Wales, so I do urge you to take decisive action on this particular area.

And finally, Dirprwy Lywydd, we’re always urged, and quite rightly, by the First Minister to consider how do we get money into this Government. Well, we need to raise taxes, of course, and I can see that that is an issue that we can see perhaps wouldn’t benefit us significantly here in Wales, but why not urge the UK Government to follow what the organisation called Patriotic Millionaires are urging, and that is to tax our richest, get money into the UK economy and then get that money down into the Welsh economy? Diolch yn fawr iawn.

The extra £1.7 billion allocated to Wales in the Chancellor’s autumn budget comes from the £40 billion in tax rises that my colleague Peter Fox correctly identified is on a maxed-out credit card. Before digging into this draft budget, it’s important to address the broader economic picture across the UK and the UK Government’s budget, which has provided the additional moneys to the Welsh Government. Rachel Reeves’s budget includes £40 billion in tax rises and another £32 billion in borrowing, and the burden of that taxation is already showing its effect on the economy, with all the indicators in the UK economy pointing to a recession on the horizon. If we do go into recession, the Chancellor will not get the £40 billion extra in tax revenue she is expecting, but her spending will stay the same, which means her borrowing will go through the roof more than it currently is.

This means we are currently facing a situation where interest rates will have to go up to attract money into Government coffers, and private investors will avoid the UK, because we have a debt burden that we can't fulfil, an economy in recession and likely sterling in freefall, and it has already fallen 7 per cent against the dollar since the Labour Party took office. So, this is the death spiral we are potentially facing as a result of the UK Government's budget. We have the highest debt and tax as a percentage of GDP since world war two, so we should not be celebrating the little bit of extra money that Wales has received off the backs of small businesses and the elderly who have been stripped of their winter fuel payments.

This draft budget by the Welsh Government is yet another year of pouring more and more money into failing schemes and Government initiatives. When will the Welsh Government learn that pouring water into a leaky bucket isn't more money that is required, it is the competency to fix a broken system? Radical rethinking is required, thinking we have not seen in a quarter of a century from the party opposite. The Bevan Foundation found that, since the 2024-25 budget, Wales has seen no improvement in living standards, with the proportion of people reporting going without everyday essentials being unchanged during this period. They also stated that, in some ways, the position has worsened, with more people saying that they are more in debt than previously, just like the Government.

The Welsh Government's record on social housing is also disappointing, meeting only a quarter of the housing budget. The local government settlement is up 4.3 per cent on average, but, like many other areas that have received more funding, this will be swallowed up by the national insurance rise made by the Government at the other end of the M4. So, if the public believe that additional funding is going to translate to better public services, waiting times coming down and potholes being filled, I have some bad news for them. The additional funding will go straight back to the Treasury and will not benefit people in Wales. So, overall, there is—

Will you take an intervention?

Yes. Yes, please.

You're portraying a doomsday. Actually, this is a good-news budget, and it will improve people's lives. Forty per cent of people in most communities are actually employed in the public sector. Those people know tomorrow their jobs will still be there. When your Government was in charge, nobody knew if they had a job or a service the following day, so, please, at least recognise that there is some positivity here, it's not a doomsday.

Well, I'll wait and see evidence of that, when waiting times start coming down. The Government haven't met their waiting times targets since they released them in 2008, so how the people of Wales are going to be reassured that extra funding for the NHS is actually going to equate to lower waiting times—. I'll believe it when I see it, Joyce, thank you very much.

So, overall, there is very little in this budget to reassure my constituents and small businesses, which are the backbone of the Welsh economy and are currently on their knees and have been ignored in this draft budget. I urge the Welsh Government to seriously consider greater support for businesses, particularly given the £40 billion tax rises introduced by the Chancellor. Thank you very much.

I'd like start by agreeing with Mike Hedges and saying that line-by-line detail would be very beneficial to be able to actually answer some of those questions around what would we do, and maybe a Senedd budget office would help. [Interruption.] Well, the granular detail is never given to us.

I also welcome the additional funding for local government. This comes at a time when councils have had to make eye-watering cuts year after year as a result of the Tories' callous austerity agenda. But let's not get too carried away. The figures announced today mean that there is still going to be a shortfall in the budgets of local authorities throughout Wales. This means that the axe will still be wielded on local services and local institutions. This also means that council tax will still have to rise at a time when many families are living from one pay packet to the next. This is why talk of austerity being over is utter nonsense. If that were the case, then local government would be funded adequately. Unfortunately, that cannot be said to be the case, despite today's announcement. If austerity were a thing of the past, then my colleagues in councils would not be facing painful decisions as a result of the fiscal hand they have been dealt. Things like school transport, library services and council jobs would not be facing a bleak and uncertain future. Plaid Cymru has made it clear that we want the entirety of the funding shortfall in local government to be met.

There is also an unintended consequence for local government from the national insurance increase announced by your Labour Party colleagues in Westminster during the autumn budget. Whilst public sector workers are supposed to be excluded from the NIC increases, there are numerous third sector workers who contribute to front-line council services who will be impacted by these UK Government decisions, and we are yet to know what the UK support package will look like and that won't be announced until the beginning of the next financial year. One third sector organisation that my office is in contact with has said that the move will add a huge amount to their wage bill, affecting the services they can provide.

Similarly, the extra cash for transport, whilst welcome in itself, is a drop in the ocean compared to what Wales should be getting. Until we see the full devolution of rail power to Wales, until we get our full and fair allocation of all rail projects in England, not just for HS2, then we are still being shortchanged by the Treasury. And we'll probably delve into a little bit more of that in the Finance Committee debate tomorrow. Labour, who were once converted to the cause first championed by Plaid Cymru, swiftly changed their tune on the billions we are owed from HS2 funding as soon as it looked like they would have the ability to do something about it. The only word for this is 'shameful'.

There also remain concerns about the stark funding imbalance between buses—Wales's most used public transport—and rail, raising serious questions about Labour's priorities. Affordable, well-funded bus services and investments are vital to the success of bus reform. But on top of this, the current financial neglect undermines numerous Labour promises and commitments on bus investment and fare affordability. We have been told by experts that the extra funding announced today for buses may not be sufficient to sustain existing routes and services, never mind expand upon them. We have been told that without additional funding, during the myriad of costs that operators face, the future of bus services appears to be the highest fares or fewer services. This is the reality of the situation. So, whether we are talking about local government, front-line services or transport systems, when will we see this so-called partnership in power actually deliver for our communities? Diolch.

I'd read the budget before I made a speech on it, frankly. Because what I heard was very different. What I heard was the beginning of the turning of a corner, a bend in the road, from darkness into light. That's what I heard. I didn't hear all the cuts that we've heard for the last 14 years. I didn't hear about the erosion of public services. I heard a finance Secretary who is investing in public services, who is investing in people, who is investing in places, who is investing in the future. Now, it's perfectly possible to say that more should go here and more should go there and that we should have a budget that looks and feels somewhat different, but that's a different debate. That's a different debate, and it's not a debate that's being engaged with this afternoon, on all sides of the Chamber. I actually think that what the finance Secretary has announced this afternoon is a good budget for Wales and a good budget for the future.

And I don't test it on any philosophical argument that may or may not stand up to examination. I test it against what is good for the people of Blaenau Gwent. Because the people of Blaenau Gwent have been at the sharp end of austerity; they've seen the reality of Tory cuts, they've seen what it means to them and their families and their services and their communities. They know what austerity means, whereas the restaurants of Mayfair don't understand it at all and the Tories don't care about it. 

Let me tell you what austerity has done to the people of Blaenau Gwent. It's meant that we've seen a diminution, not only in the quality of life and the standards of living, but in our ability to lead the lives we want to lead and to plan for a future that we want. Now, you don't turn that around in four months or five months, and you don't turn that around in one budget, but what you do do is make a statement of intent: what do you want to see for the future? What is the future that we are going to create? That is what I heard the finance Secretary say earlier this afternoon, and that's why I'll be very proud to support this budget, because I want to see that investment. Of course, I want to see more investment. I want to see more investment in our public services, of course I do, but I also want to see realistic investment that is sustainable over the long term.

I want to see a Government that isn't timid or silent in the face of the challenges we face as a country. I want to see a Government that is an activist Government, a Government that is investing in the future of our economy. We've already seen nearly £2 billion invested in dualling the A465 Heads of the Valleys road. What I want to see now from this Government is investment in the education of people in the communities along that road, so that we can ensure that our people are able to take advantage of the opportunities created. I was in Ebbw Vale yesterday, visiting the college there, and I saw how young people were investing their own futures, looking at different options and ideas about using artificial intelligence to deal with dementia—new concepts, and concepts that simply didn't exist when I was in school and when many of us here were in school.

I'll give way in a moment. But they are only able to pursue their dreams today because we invest in the whole of their education, from the early years through school to college, and then on to university, if they so wish, and into apprenticeships, if they wish to do so—investing in those people, and what I see is a Government prepared to do that.

Thank you for taking an intervention, Alun. I was going to say that you've mentioned some really good things there, like the A465 Heads of the Valleys road. Could you understand how people in other parts of Wales might feel disenfranchised compared to that, when you see the comparison with the lack of investment in the A55 and healthcare innovation in north Wales? Someone from my constituency would be watching your speech saying, 'Well, it's all right for you guys down here in Cardiff and down in the south Wales Valleys, but what about us guys up in north Wales?'

Gareth, I was sent here to speak for my constituents. Perhaps your constituents need to send somebody here to speak for them.

What I also see is a Government investing in economic development. I want to see the investment in the infrastructure to support and to sustain the investment that we've already seen. I want to see, as well, investment in the health and social services system that people in Blaenau Gwent depend upon. The health service was created in Blaenau Gwent, and what we need now are the GPs to deliver the health service that Aneurin Bevan dreamt of, and this is a budget that begins to turn that corner as well.

But we also need to ensure that we have a budget that invests in the future of our communities. In my constituency, you do see the settlement at its most jagged, if you like, because in the Rhymney valley, what you have is a railway line that is being invested in. It's a devolved line—the core Valleys line—and that is having the investment that this Government is prepared to put into it. In the Ebbw Vale line, the Government has to borrow money in order to put money into it because it's not a devolved line. We need to have the settlement that puts the tools in the hands of Ministers here to ensure that we are able to continue this investment—

Diolch, Alun.

—and that we are able to continue to invest in the future. An activist Government, investing in our communities, our people and our places, that is the budget we heard this afternoon, and I'd invite everybody to support it.

Janet Finch-Saunders.

Wow. Thank you. To follow Alun Davies with that contribution, endorsing this joke of a budget, but there again, we are in pantomime season.

I do acknowledge, finance Minister, the amount of work that has gone into the preparation, but I have to raise my concerns once again about the ability of this Senedd to scrutinise the financial plans more effectively, and, again, they've been undermined today. I don't consider it acceptable that the documents were only made available very shortly before the start of our Plenary proceedings.

I'm going to focus on my own portfolio, actually, and a little bit on farming—climate change and rural affairs. The budget lines include constitutional reform, £2 million; justice transformation, £0.5 million; Senedd reform—something that I can tell you now the constituents of Aberconwy are furious about. They don't want 36 more politicians, they don't want to see the voting system changed. But, obviously, the two parties, Plaid Cymru and Labour, have decided you'd rather spend that kind of money doing that than on our health service, on our education. But, anyway, could you tell me what Senedd reform has to do with the climate change and rural affairs budget? Can you tell me what constitutional reform has to do with the climate change and rural affairs budget? Can you explain what justice transformation has to do with the climate change and rural affairs budget?

You have declared, some years ago now, a climate change emergency and also a nature crisis, yet the budget allocation for a lot of the environmental lines has reduced. So, where is this crisis, this emergency that needs to be addressed? Biodiversity, evidence and peatlands for 2024-25 and 2025-26, both £11 million. Forestry for 2024-25 and 2025-26, both just £6.4 million. Environmental protection, just £2,000 more. It is just phenomenal how you can say one thing and do another. In the last three weeks, we've had two major storms, with serious flooding and damage to our communities across Wales, yet the flood risk management budget has only increased by £53,000. You could spend that in Aberconwy alone and not even touch the surface. So, what discussions have you undertaken with NRW as to whether this is remotely enough to help them going forward in mitigating our future flooding risk?

I've long spoken about the huge potential to enhance nature and reduce carbon emissions through investing in the marine environment. As such, I was disappointed to read that the budget line for marine policy has had a real-terms reduction, remaining at £1.7 million. Why? Cabinet Secretary, why are you not speaking to your own Cabinet and saying, 'That is wrong'? A WWF study found that 66 per cent of publicly listed companies depend on the ocean health, with $8.4 trillion in assets and revenues at risk over the next 15 years under our current conditions, therefore a strategic investment in marine natural capital. But I shouldn't be saying this; you should be saying this, as the Cabinet Member for climate change. And a sustainable blue economy will yield significant ecological and economic benefits to our communities, particularly for our often struggling and, yes, neglected coastal communities. Policy interventions to attract private and blended finance, improve marine spatial planning and address ecological threats are urgently needed, but remain conspicuously absent.

Wales continues to fall behind England, but I don't think that position will be for long now that we've got a UK Labour Government. But it has fallen behind over the 14 years that we've been lucky to have a Conservative Government in Westminster. As I have previously advocated, Wales should be permitted to reinvest—[Interruption.] This is about constructive opposition. If you don't want to listen, don't. As I have previously advocated, Wales should be permitted to reinvest fines collected within its borders, but I am utterly disappointed that this issue remains unaddressed, and that's with Labour in London and you here. Adopting the 'polluter pays' principle would generate substantial funds for biodiversity and climate initiatives while holding those offenders accountable. An omission such as this represents—

Janet, you need to conclude now, please.

—a failure to lever readily available resources for ecological restoration. This, once again, highlights the Welsh Government's impotency when confronted with the influence of their big brother in Westminster. Diolch.

I'm incredibly grateful for the opportunity to speak to this debate given the time constraints, so I'll focus in on one particular thing. Looking at the increase to the city and growth deals budget, the £85 million increase that we see there, I'd be really interested to know how the Government does a cost-benefit analysis around those increases. How, in essence, do we justify that increases of this kind happen? Because time and time again it comes across to me that people are unsure as to what exactly city and growth deals are achieving and how successful they are.

The Government asked us to propose potential things that we would cut in order to justify increases in other areas. So, could I ask the Government to potentially look at that increase again and look at how we might be able to siphon some of that increase into local authorities? Because the 4.3 per cent uplift still doesn't go far enough. It doesn't address their needs, and we cannot afford to further hollow out local authority departments, especially their economic development and planning departments, because local authorities can be drivers for economic growth themselves. Industries are fairly united in saying that the biggest barrier to growth is that capacity within local authorities. So, I think there is a case to be made that that £85 million would go a lot further if it were with local government and help to pad out that capacity so that decisions can be made quicker.

On a related note, the 10 per cent uplift for health is all well and good, but a focus on improving health outcomes has to also include a focus on funding local authorities correctly, because the reality is if we want to get there, we won't go far without them. I would welcome the views of the Cabinet Secretary on that.

I think this is a budget that has turned a corner. A sense of optimism finally is upon us. It is starting to put things right. I've sat with others in Cabinets that have had to cut budgets. We are having today a Welsh Government budget of £21 billion. I would say to the opposition in this Senedd Chamber that the budgets go up for this Senedd when there is a Labour Government in Westminster. We've seen that in the early years of growth of devolution and we've seen it again in this budget.

We have for the first time a draft budget with a capital investment programme standing at £3 billion, a 40 per cent rise in the capital investment in the NHS. That is an enormous increase for our front-line staff. That means more scanners, it means modern buildings, it means repairing the buildings that we have, which will give the hard-pressed workforce a fighting chance of reaching the productivity improvements that we have asked of them.

I'm also delighted to see ongoing investment in the core Valleys line and the creation of a metro. This is the largest civil engineering project in the UK, and already we seem to have pocketed it. But the costs still need to be met. The investment is ongoing, the work is incomplete and a significant part of this budget is following through on that very sizeable investment, which is already showing benefits and will continue to benefit communities for years to come. I welcome that in this budget, as I do the extra money for road and pavement maintenance, £60 million.

Part of the roads review that the Government did was about shifting investment away from building new roads into looking after the roads we already have. We have a massive backlog of one of our largest capital assets that Wales owns, and we are neglecting it and it is crumbling, as has been mentioned here before. So, this money is very welcome, and I hope it's a part of an ongoing programme of shifting that spending into maintenance.

All of this stands in contrast with what we saw from a Conservative Government. And remember we could still have a Conservative government now. The UK Tory Government didn't need to call that election. They could well have passed another budget and we could have been standing here today dealing with the consequences of yet another austerity Tory Government. Jeremy Hunt in his last budget gave us £1 million—£1 million—of extra capital, and today we're talking about the benefit of £235 million from a Labour Chancellor. That's the difference a partnership at both sides of the M4 makes. That's the difference a Labour Government makes.

We've heard the opposition reaction and it's the sort of thing, I think, that breeds cynicism in politics, because we've had from the Conservatives complaints about revenue-raising measures and demands for more money. You can't have more money without more spending. You can't have more spending without raising taxes. And you have no suggestions of how to do that. You decry the inheritance tax, you decry the death duties and the increase in national insurance. But we have a hole left to us. The Resolution Foundation said if Jeremy Hunt had delivered another budget there'd have been a £20 billion gap between what he said he'd spend and what he had money to spend on. That money has to come from somewhere. They've offered nothing other than cynical emptiness around that.

And Plaid Cymru similarly. We have in this system a hard-wired need to co-operate. That's the proportional representation system a Labour Government introduced—against its own interests, by the way—and has continued to strengthen. The consequence of that is co-operation, and co-operation means compromise. Plaid Cymru have already said before they heard the budget that they would be voting against this budget. How is that seriously engaging with the constitutional reality that we've all embraced? And also I would say to them, I've heard week after week demands for more spending from the Government. They've been part of setting the budget in this place for a number of years now, and they've agreed with us a joint priority of free school meals. It's an excellent policy and they deserve their part of the credit for that, but that has cost at least £260 million. 

There's a choice to be made. There's an opportunity cost for that £260 million. You can't sit here week after week and tell us we should be spending more on social care, more on flooding, more on the health service, more on education. You made your choice. You had an influence in the Government. You chose free school meals—£260 million. Fantastic, but that means the money can't be spent twice. I know you think that you are on the up and are refusing to co-operate to try and exploit that, but the reality is if you are in a position again to set a budget, you can't spend the money twice and you need to confront that. And to continue to pretend you can I'm afraid adds to the cynicism that so many people feel about politics.  

I commend the budget and the job that the finance Secretary has set about doing. There's still room between this and the final budget to strengthen it further. I'd like to hear from him how he can do more to make sure that the departmental spending meets our carbon budgets, our climate change commitments. How is that test being applied to all our spending so we make sure we follow through on the promise of the Well-being of Future Generations (Wales) Act 2015?  

Diolch yn fawr, Dirprwy Lywydd. In the time that I have available, I hope to respond to the main spokespeople. I won't have time to respond to all those questions that were really for my ministerial colleagues and will be pursued in front of committees, nor do I have time to respond to all the questions that were raised for the UK Government and not for this Government at all. I will respond to the specific questions that are for me as finance Minister; I counted four of them in the last 90 minutes, and I'll respond to each one of those. 

In terms of the party spokespeople, Peter Fox started off by saying that all budgets are choices. He's right about that, of course. He then went on to read from a leaflet apparently written in the 1970s about trade union domination of the UK economy. That was before he went on to ask for more money for social care, for rural communities, for local government, before Janet Finch-Saunders asked for more money for coastal communities and for businesses. I understand the Conservative Party. The problem for them is so do the people of Wales, which is why they haven't voted for the Conservative Party in more than 150 years of democratic elections, and after today they can look forward to start off on the next 150 years.

I listened carefully, of course, to what Heledd Fychan said. She described £1.5 billion extra on a £26 billion budget as a drop in the ocean. Well, Dirprwy Lywydd, some drop and some ocean. She too, of course, asked for more money for local government, more money for the arts. She referred, of course, to the sainted Scots. There is a day of reckoning coming for Plaid Cymru, though, isn't there, on the budget? This is a budget that will provide faster treatment for thousands and thousands of people here in Wales. This is a budget that will build thousands of homes for people who so badly need them. This is a budget that will see all those children whose additional needs have not been met having those needs met in the future, and they will vote against them all. 

That's the day of reckoning for Plaid Cymru. How many Plaid Cymru spokespeople did I hear tell me that there wasn't enough money in this budget for local government? There's £253 million extra for local government, and when you vote against the budget you'll be saying to those local authorities that you don't want them to have a single penny of it. That's what serious politics is about. That's what Lee Waters pointed to in his contribution, and that day of reckoning is coming your way in March. There is a period between the draft and the final budget when I will be, as I explained to the finance spokesperson of Plaid Cymru, open to discussions with you about how this budget can be improved. But if that's not the business you are in, then, believe me, the people of Wales will see through you and the political games you think you can play with their futures.

Let me point to the points that Jane Dodds made. Thank you to her for the welcome she gave to the extra investment in health, to the recognition she gave to the aspects of this budget that will support growth in future. She was one of the people who asked me a specific question, and that was on NRW and water pollution. Let me say to Jane, or to any other Members of the Chamber, that I am very keen to invest in those powers of regulators where additional investment in regulators leads to additional income being raised by the activities that they undertake, and I'm very happy to continue that conversation with her after today.

Mike Hedges asked me a specific question on LTT collection, and that's in exactly the same space. I didn't have a chance, Dirprwy Lywydd, in my original remarks, to draw attention to the fact that there is £600,000 extra in this budget for the Welsh Revenue Authority, and it's there because the outstanding work the authority has done in collecting land transaction tax in Wales has persuaded the Office for Budget Responsibility to recognise that that additional investment in this year's budget will be repaid five times over by the work that the Welsh Revenue Authority is now able to do.

Carolyn Thomas asked me about the Welsh reserve, Dirprwy Lywydd. I'm happy to confirm today that my intention is to take into next year the Welsh reserve with sufficient funding in it for us to be able to draw down the maximum that we are able to in one financial year. It will have £125 million in revenue to draw down next year; it will have £50 million pounds in capital to draw down next year, and that is the fund we have to draw on when unexpected events happen and when we need to support our local authorities, for example, in dealing with weather events. So, I'm happy to confirm that that is the strategy we have adopted there.

Luke Fletcher at least had the merit of engaging seriously in the debate. As we've heard from others, there were few contributions that genuinely did that. On city and growth deals, the money is already committed. Half of it comes from the central Government, half of it comes from the Welsh Government, and it is already committed with those city and growth deals, and it is local authorities that lead them all. The north Wales growth deal is led by the six local authorities in north Wales; the Cardiff capital deal is led by the local authorities that make up the Cardiff capital deal; the Swansea bay growth deal is led by Swansea authority with its three partners, as is the mid Wales growth deal a partnership between two local authorities in Powys and Ceredigion. The money isn't movable. That's the nature of the agreement we have. But even if it was, even if we did what Luke Fletcher suggested, we would be taking money from local authorities with one hand to give it back to them with the other.

The final specific point I was asked, Dirprwy Lywydd, was by Janet Finch-Saunders. She asked me why the climate change MEG had money in it for constitutional matters and for justice matters, and it is simply this: the Cabinet Secretary is also responsible for those things, and as he is—[Interruption.] Yes, of course.

The climate change budget and the rural affairs budget have been put together now under one budget line. Do you think it'd be more appropriate if they could be separated out, so you could actually scrutinise what's being spent in rural affairs and what's being spent in climate change, rather than having them put together so you can't scrutinise them properly?

That is entirely possible, Dirprwy Lywydd, because we publish budgets at the MEG level, where you will see exactly the information that James Evans asked me for, and you will see exactly the information that Janet Finch-Saunders was anxious about, because she will see that those moneys are there to allow the Cabinet Secretary to fulfil his responsibilities.

Dirprwy Lywydd, this is the start of the process of looking at the Welsh budget's proposals today. The process of scrutiny will go on over the coming weeks; there will be detailed opportunities in committee for colleagues here to ask all my Cabinet colleagues to explain why the decisions we have made have been made. But let's be clear, those decisions this year, in sharp distinction to the last two years, will be questions about the growth that we are able to provide for our public services and Welsh citizens, instead of why we have had to reduce money from this budget and that budget in order to survive in the age of austerity. That's why it's a budget for growth; that's why it's a budget that allows us to start down that path of delivering a brighter future for people here in Wales. I look forward to the process, I look forward to the debate on 4 March, and I look forward to all of those parties here who have a genuine interest in securing the advantages we now have with a partnership between Labour in Wales and Labour in Westminster allowing those investments to go ahead.

For thousands of people, these tips are an ever-present reminder of what can go tragically wrong. As a nation, we will never, and should never, forget the tragedy of Aberfan. And as a Government, we are keenly conscious of the worry and the anxiety that so many families living near disused tips feel right across Wales.

And as we know, the risks are growing as we feel the impacts of the climate emergency. The recent storm Bert is yet another stark warning of the damage rainfall can cause, and how vulnerable disused tips can be to extreme weather conditions. I saw the frightening impact in Cwmtillery myself, along with Alun Davies, and as the climate changes, we can expect more storms and wetter winters. That means we must be ready to adapt and to respond. We are absolutely committed to making sure that people living in coalfield communities across Wales are safe in their homes.

That's exactly why we are introducing this Bill, the first of its kind in the UK, and world leading: to prevent disused coal and non-coal tips from being a threat to human welfare. What this means in practical terms is that communities feel, and are, safe in their homes. It fulfils our commitment in the programme for government to introduce legislation to deal with the legacy of centuries of mining and to ensure coal-tip safety. It will help to ensure that the tragic mistakes of the past are not repeated. 

Now, I know that the safety and well-being of communities living close to disused tips is something that all Members would agree is important and all would all wish to support. In developing the Bill, we were informed by the Law Commission's report on regulating coal-tip safety in Wales, and we have built on the proposals in our coal-tip safety White Paper. 

The Bill establishes a new regime for assessing, registering, monitoring and managing disused tips. It also sets up a new body—the disused tips authority for Wales—that will be responsible for developing and delivering that regime with one of its core objectives being ensuring disused tips do not threaten people's safety. A central component of the regime is a duty on the new body to develop and to maintain a national register of disused tips that pose or could pose a threat to human welfare. 

Now, as I’ve said, this is a Bill about keeping people safe, and so many of its functions are about prevention. The Bill’s provisions will enable the authority to deal with tip instability and threats to tip instability, and this includes powers to require landowners to carry out operations and for the authority to carry out operations itself. Importantly, the provisions in the Bill don’t only apply to land on which a disused tip is located, but also to land that could impact on the stability of a tip, which will typically be land close by. In practice, this means that not only will the new body have powers of entry to carry out its functions, it will also be able to require an owner of land to carry out necessary actions. The new body will be able to use its powers to step in where those with a responsibility cannot or will not take action to ensure the safety of a tip.

It is also fundamentally important to note that the Bill ensures the new body has broader powers than those that local authorities have currently. This includes wider powers to gather information from relevant public authorities, and to require certain information from occupiers of land and from others. It will also be able to issue advice to any person on any matter relating to disused tips. This could be generic maintenance advice to a tip owner to ensure the safety of a tip, or site-specific advice to prevent an emergency. The Bill also establishes a lower threshold for intervention by the new body, so it can pre-emptively take or require action if necessary to help keep people safe. These powers come alongside a duty on the new body to share information with relevant public bodies in certain circumstances. 

Now, we've been mindful that in developing the Bill we’ve included checks and balances to ensure fairness and equity, and to enable individuals to question, to challenge and to appeal decisions that have been made. That's why the Bill includes provisions for a formal appeal process. It sets out a series of grounds on which appeals can be made and, depending on the circumstances, these will either be heard by the courts or a person appointed by Welsh Ministers.

We have diligently consulted and engaged with stakeholders throughout the process so far, and it's important we continue the same considered, collaborative approach in relation to subordinate legislation that we’ll bring forward under the powers in the Bill, as well as in relation to any supporting guidance. We intend to take a phased approach that will enable us to continue to work with those stakeholders, such as NRW and the Mining Remediation Authority. In addition, a phased approach to implementation will ensure that those regulations that are necessary for the new body to commence operations are in place when the body is established. The new body will be able to input into the key pieces of subordinate legislation and guidance that will be fundamental to the way it operates.

Over time, the body’s effective management regime will significantly reduce the costs of remediation. Regular inspections and maintenance will help to identify issues, and address these issues as early as possible, and help to reduce the likelihood of future landslides.

But there’s one thing I want to make particularly clear at the outset today—the Bill does not change who is responsible for maintaining land. Further, and as I stated in this Chamber just a few ago weeks ago, it is not feasible to include provisions related to restoration of former opencast mines at this time. Doing so would significantly expand the legislative reach and scope of an already complex Bill, and could have significant implications that could make the Bill undeliverable.

We've set out an ambitious coming-into-force date for the establishing of the disused tips authority of 1 April 2027. As you will appreciate, it will take a significant amount of work to put everything in place between Royal Assent and the coming-into-force date. I have made sure that we have already a well-established and resourced team to take this work forward. 

It is also important to set out how this Bill builds upon our broader work to make disused coal tips safe. Whilst this Government’s long-term strategic aim is to turn disused tips into beneficial assets for communities, our more immediate approach is to concentrate on ensuring that tips are safe for the people and communities in Wales.

The Welsh Government has committed £65 million from 2021 to 2025 for coal-tip safety, and I'm pleased today that we've announced at least a further £12 million. Now, this is on top of the £25 million we requested and indeed received from the UK Government for 2025-26, as part of the autumn budget. This will enable us to expand the coal-tip safety grant, so we can expedite work on tips in Wales, and take our total investment in coal-tip safety this Senedd term to £102 million. 

And as a result of our work so far, Wales is now the first country in the UK to accurately map and categorise all disused coal tips. We are on the cutting edge of using new, advanced technologies, supporting research and development projects to innovate how we monitor, maintain and manage those disused tips. And, of course, we are building and improving how we work together with stakeholders and public sector organisations, and working to ensure there is sufficient capacity and capability to deliver ongoing inspections and maintenance programmes.

Thank you, Cabinet Secretary, for this statement. I think we can all agree that this legislation is much needed, and both myself and my group welcome it. I look forward to working with you closely to bring it through Welsh Parliament.

As you may know, Cabinet Secretary, most of my family still live within the shadows of many of these tips, and I'm keen to see this legislation progress as swiftly as possible. However, with this in mind, I would like to seek clarity on a number of points you have raised in your statement today and yesterday.

Firstly, your statement mentions 2,573 disused coal tips and an estimated 20,000 other disused tips in Wales. Are there sufficient resources in place to manage such a large number of sites effectively? The UK, like almost all western economies, is under enormous financial pressure from the impact of COVID and inflation from ongoing conflict in Ukraine, as well as domestic issues such as the costs associated with climate change, housing, and even migration, to name but a few. And it is likely that budgets are going to be stretched for some time. I'm conscious that you have allocated £102 million for this Senedd term, but how can you guarantee that the money will be available to ensure full and complete implementation of the Bill in the long term, without seriously impacting on other departmental budgets. Do you see this as a bulk investment with lower long-term costs going forward, for example?

Secondly, the Bill establishes the disused tips authority for Wales, which is to have various powers, including requiring landowners to allow access to carry out operations. It is stated that the authority will have the power to fine landowners no more than £1,000 if they obstruct entry. But what if the landowners cannot be contacted or even determined? The Bill will give the right to the authority to enter land within 48 hours' notice, but if the landowner or occupier claims they have not received the notice, how are you going to ensure that issues that arise can be resolved in a timely fashion? Also, the proposed fine for non-compliance will have to be imposed through a magistrates' court, and I'm concerned that if this was challenged, the cost of prosecution is likely to be much higher than the maximum fine allowed, which would not only waste the financial resources of the authority in fighting the case, but surely would delay access to the site as well.

Expanding on that point, the authority will also be given the right to access a disused tip without the 48 hours' notice needed if they believe it is unstable. Could you please clarify what criteria they will use to evaluate the stability of the tip and what would need to be proved to show if it is unstable, and that it's not just being used to access land without the needed 48-hour notice period?

The Bill mentions that sworn testimony has to be given to a justice of the peace for the authority to receive a warrant to access the land. Can this be challenged by a landowner? I believe this to be a very important point, because if there are no fixed criteria then the reasoning behind accessing land will be subjective and will likely be a source of potential conflict with landowners. Likewise, if the authority has to pass through other people's land to access the coal tip, will they also be subject to fines if they refuse permission? As you'll no doubt agree with me, Cabinet Secretary, it's crucial that we get landowners' support for this Bill, and anything that can be done to allay any fears that they might have, especially any potential cost implications for them, will no doubt be gratefully received.

The Bill, quite rightly, aims to protect communities. I'm keen to know how the Welsh Government will ensure that local communities are adequately informed and involved in the process. What mechanisms do you intend to put in place for community feedback and participation? I ask this because I am aware that communities can often feel very isolated on such matters and can very often be subjected to misinformation, especially in this social media age. What resources will the Welsh Government provide to tackle this? 

Finally, Cabinet Secretary, what consideration will be given to the long-term environmental impact of these disused tips? Even where I live, there are disused coal tips, and the habitat and biodiversity that are found there are found nowhere else. You've heard me mention the beast of Beddau and the Maerdy monster, to name but a few, in this Chamber previously, but these species are found nowhere else, and they will be impacted by this remediation. How will the newly created disused tips authority ensure that the biodiversity that has thrived on these former tips will be protected? If we revert the tips to their former natural selves, i.e. pre industrialisation, all this biodiversity will surely be lost. There seems to be no mention in the Bill about protecting the coal tip environment or biodiversity, yet I believe this Bill could have the potential to help ecological restoration and, in some cases, even repurposing of these sites to benefit local ecosystems and communities. I wonder if you have considered this and if there is a reason that it's not included within the Bill, and if you would consider working closely with organisations such as Buglife Cymru, who are actively trying to map the biodiversity of these coal tip sites. Thank you.

Joel, thank you very much indeed, and thanks for the broad welcome and support of the Bill coming forward. And look, I'm keen to work with you and others as we take this into committee and we get into real detail. You rightly say there are over 2,500 coal tips and 20,000 non-coal tips, which could be former metal mines, slate mines and so on—a legacy right across Wales there. The way that the authority will be tasked with taking the work forward is to build on the work that's already been done. I think she's actually gone now, but I was just going to say my thanks to my predecessor Julie James, because, post storm Dennis, we've already done an enormous amount of work in prioritising those tips where there is deemed to be instability. They've been categorised into A, B, C and D, C and D being the higher priority ones, and what that means is that there is more intense prioritisation of the maintenance, monitoring, deployment of technology et cetera so that we keep a close eye on those tips, and then prioritise work on them. And in fact, that, I suspect, will be the way forward for the new authority, the independent authority: to build on that work and to say, 'Right, where are the priority ones?' It doesn't mean, by the way, that, if there is an issue with a non-coal tip, they cannot equally say, 'That becomes now one that we also need to focus on.' But it's for them to prioritise it, and the advantage of—. And the Law Commission and the coal taskforce pointed this out: what is needed is a body with real independence of oversight, resources—as you rightly mentioned—but also then with the expertise and the capacity to do this, rather than a Minister double-guessing it. So, there's a real opportunity here, actually, to grow that expertise within Wales.

You mentioned—. I'll pick up a couple of points that you made, but for a lot of these we'll get into the detail when we get into further detailed discussion. Interesting being up on the tops in freezing cold Tylorstown on Monday morning; it was cold up there. But what we saw there was, actually, the remediation authority there and the work that had been done by the contractors, local contractors, Pritchard's—. It's not an advert for them, other contractors are available, but local jobs, by the way, doing this. But what they'd done is they put aside the covering, the quite rich biodiversity that was on the slip area, and they're now replacing it on the areas where they'd moved that spoil to on a more level, much more safe topography there. So, they're dealing very much with that, and I would expect that the authority will actually want to do that as well, because, ultimately, as I said in my opening statement, we want to return these assets to the community going forward, and that includes biodiversity and, potentially, recreationally as well, if it can be done safely.

You mentioned the issue over the aspects of the landowner, several issues. Let me just be clear: what we've tried to do here is bring forward a very proportionate approach to powers such as powers of entry, so a really proportionate approach. In summary, the powers permit a person who's authorised by the authority to enter land to carry out the functions listed in section 62. So, that includes things such as a preliminary assessment or a full assessment, or whether operations are needed to be carried out and so on. Now, the powers of entry apply not just to the land on which the tip is located, but it could be land that affects the stability of that tip as well. So, it could be land in close proximity to a tip. In respect of residential land, an authorised person—. Sorry. To gain access to the disused tip, in respect of residential land, an authorised person requires a warrant to enter if the owner or occupier does not agree that access. So, as a public authority, which this new authority will be, it has to exercise those powers in a way that is justifiable and is reasonable in the eyes of the law as well. But in the vast majority of cases, I've got to say, Joel, we anticipate the approach of collaboration and engagement with landowners will be one that doesn't necessitate warrants, and will actually have the agreement of landowners, who want to see that these coal tips are safe.

There is an exception to going on to the land where there's a real emergency and you want to gain immediate access, but, normally, what you'd actually request is with at least 48 hours' notice given to every occupier. So, we've tried to frame the power in a way that is proportionate and reasonable, but I'm looking forward to getting into some more of this detail when we get into committee as well.

I would like to stress to the Deputy First Minister and to those civil servants that, whilst I will be expressing concern about some aspects of this Bill as it’s drafted, that is meant in no way to undermine the extensive work they’ve put into this, and nor do I doubt for a moment the dedication that's been shown. This is an important step forward; there is so much here that I really do welcome. I'm truly grateful to them for their work, and I extend that to your predecessor in this sense, Julie James, as well. So, I truly am grateful for that.

This Bill is long overdue. I regret that, as drafted, it does fall short of providing the immediate, the comprehensive, action that our communities will be demanding. Now, of course, that action is action that should have been taken decades before this Senedd existed. It's action that should have been taken before any Welsh Government of the modern era existed, since the tips that litter our skylines are the legacy of an industry that scarred our villages and towns, and nowhere are those scars more visible than in those disused tips that continue to cast a shadow over so many communities. The disaster of Aberfan that the Dirprwy Brif Weinidog has referred to should stand as a permanent reminder of the devastating cost that can come from the neglect and inaction that have been shown over too many decades. I do commend the fact that the Welsh Government—. I know that this is the culmination of work that has been going on for a great deal of time, and I am grateful for that. But what has happened to us in our past should compel us to ensure that every coal tip in Wales is made safe, that no community is left to endure the horrors of what we've seen in the past again.

I look forward very much to being able to look at this in greater depth in committee and elsewhere, but I've got a few questions I'd like to raise at this point, please. The establishment of the new supervisory authority, now that's a very welcome development. Many people will be asking why we have to wait until 2027 for it to be operational. I appreciate what you have set out, that it's going to take time between Royal Assent and that date for it to become operational, but the delay, particularly given the heightened risks posed by the extreme weather that we are seeing increasingly, is concerning. It's going to be concerning for lots of residents underneath these tips. So, I would ask what interim measures the Government will implement to ensure that people living in those situations are kept safe in the here and now and that they feel safe as well. The absence of any immediate actions could risk undermining public confidence in this, so I would be grateful to hear what could be done in the interim to complement it.

Now, I truly appreciate and agree that human welfare in this Bill has to be paramount—that has to be the paramount consideration—but environmental welfare has been left out. Many of these tips are situated, as we've heard, in ecologically sensitive areas. Biodiversity loss is not a small concern, it's of fundamental consequence to the health of our natural environment and our future resilience. I'd ask what the justification is, please, for the omission of environmental protections from the Bill, and whether the Government would address that shortcoming.

Now, another critical gap is the lack of provision for managing clusters of tips, which can mean that there is an increased risk. They were included in the White Paper, so the exclusion of them from the Bill is confusing, so I'd appreciate knowing why that decision was made and what reassurances will be given to communities living beneath clusters of tips.

Legislation alone won't make our communities safer, of course; adequate funding is essential. In terms of the £600 million that will be necessary—and a great deal of that will need to come from Westminster—

Diolch yn fawr iawn, Delyth. I'll try and respond rapidly to a series of questions there. And first of all, thanks for the—. It's a small team, but it's a very expert team that's been bringing this forward over some time, there. And I'd just make the point that this Bill today, getting here to this point, even if some people will say, 'Well, we could've got there earlier', this is where devolution really makes a difference, in bringing forward this sort of legislation and then trying to lead in the way that we respond to this industrial legacy.

Why 2027? As I explained in my opening remarks, there are a number of things to put in place before that body will be fully up and running, and it includes bringing in the expertise, as well as making the key appointments and so on, but also getting them to a place where we can do those appointments early and they can actually help instruct and shape some of the guidance and the development of the secondary regulations as well, so it's really shaped by them. So, it won't be that we have to wait for that final point. But you rightly say, 'Well, in the interim, what happens then?' Well, the coal tip safety programme that we've embarked on for some time now continues. The Coal Remediation Authority, as it now is, the former Coal Authority, they will continue their work on inspection and monitoring and so on as well. So, that will continue. We're not going to pause now, as we wait to take this through; we're going to keep on driving ahead with that and with some of the funding that we've put in.

You mentioned the issue of civil sanctions, and that was within the White Paper originally. It proposed a range of civil sanctions such as fixed monetary penalties, compliance notices, stop notices and so on. They haven't been included in the Bill, because, during the course of the policy development, and in response to the White Paper, it was determined that their inclusion could make the regime overly bureaucratic and unwieldy. It would be difficult for the authority to administer, complex for landowners as well to understand, and it wouldn't foster as well that collaborative approach that I mentioned in the response to Joel earlier on. We anticipate that most landowners will want to make this work, will want to engage with people who are coming in saying, 'We can help you manage that tip properly and advise you on it.' So, they would run against that collaborative approach. But the system of notices backed by offences for non-compliance, we think, is quite an effective and proportionate way of enforcing the regime established in the Bill, albeit, as I say, we hope we won't have to use too many of those—we'll actually get people who want to work with us on this.

I'm grateful to you, Deputy First Minister, for the time you've spent visiting people in Cwmtillery; I know it was appreciated by people there. I also saw the impact that that visit had on you, to see the impact of the landslip on the community. The question I have for you this afternoon, Deputy First Minister, is: what do you say to the people of that community? How is this Bill and this legislation going to change their futures? How will this help them sleep at night in their beds, feeling safe and feeling secure in their own homes? How will the Welsh Government now respond to what's happened in Cwmtillery, but also the potential of what could happen elsewhere?

There are 20, I think, C and D coal tips in Blaenau Gwent, and people are now looking at those tips, 'Are they safe? Are we safe? How can we feel safe?' I think the Welsh Government has a real task ahead of it to ensure that it not only takes the action that is required, and does so urgently, but it also demonstrates that this action is having the effect, that the inspection regime we put in place and the remediation work that is put in place, the whole programme, has the impact of ensuring that people do feel safe in their own homes.

Alun, thank you very much, and thank you for the time you spent with me up in Cwmtillery. I think what we saw there was the very physical manifestation of the fear that people feel when things go wrong and this approaches homes—as well as businesses, but homes. When we saw the slurry and the slip from the spoil there on the street and lapping at the doors of homes, that really does bring it back large to what this is all about: it's making those people feel safe.

That's what I would say to them: the step change that we are looking at here is taking it from the work we've already done, which I would argue is already leading, but actually putting on a statutory footing an organisation—the authority, as it will be known in short hand—that not only has expertise, capacity, resource and cutting-edge knowledge of the best way to inspect, monitor and maintain this part of our industrial legacy, but can put forward management plans for tips where they feel there is a danger of instability to say, 'This must be done, that must be done', again driven with independence, with authority and with knowledge. They'll have powers of inspection that we're going to give them to enter land, normally with the landowner's consent, as I've said previously, but, if not, still having those powers so that they can apply for a warrant to enter land and say, 'We want to see what's going on; we want to inspect and put forward a programme of improvement there.' There'll be powers to direct maintenance and powers to direct improvement. That could be to do with culverts, it could be to do with fairly simple things, but it could be bigger as well. It's an authority that is on the side of protecting human welfare, protecting lives and making those communities safe.

So, it's building on the work that we've already done, but putting that on a statutory, legal basis so that there is, fit for this century and the next century, an organisation that is at the cutting edge of knowing how to make these tips safe, not just for Cwmtillery, but right across Wales. So, I think this will be a significant step forward. My thoughts go to those people in Cwmtillery and elsewhere who do live in the shadows of these. Our task is to give them the confidence that we will put in place a statutory regime that is on their side and makes them safe in their homes, and that's what this Bill is about.

Diolch yn fawr iawn, Rhys. We really drew on the work that the Law Commission did, and other work as well. You're suggesting the Welsh Tribunals. It's an interesting one; let's explore that when we get into committee. We think we've got a good way forward here, but let's look at if there are suggestions of other alternatives of a neat and lean way in which we can do it, and that are proportionate and work within the context in Wales. Let's look at it.

Sorry, I didn't mean to omit a response. There were many good questions that Delyth asked. I didn't deliberately omit responding to the issue over funding with the UK Government. We've made consistently clear—. We've got to the point now where, during the course of this Senedd, we'll be able to commit not just the £65 million we've spent already, but with the UK Government's contribution of £25 million that we asked for and they've given, plus the additional money we've announced today in the budget as well—thank you to my colleague the Cabinet Secretary for Finance and Welsh Language—there'll be £102 million that we can put to it. So, the work won't stop. And, of course, we will go back and ask for more from UK Government, not in some sort of a supplicant way, but, actually, 'This is what the people of Wales deserve.'

This is an industrial legacy of wealth that flowed through the nation, and through what was then Great Britain, and powered the industrial revolution. The legacy that we have is a UK-wide legacy. We need to actually find the investment back into these communities to make this good. And in so doing, by the way, develop that expertise and that innovation, so that we can help other communities around the world that are facing similar problems. Because if we can deploy the right sort of legal framework, the right sort of authority that has capacity and real expertise, the right sort of technology as well, and create local jobs, like Prichard's up in Tylorstown with people on the ground who are coming from Aberdare and places like that—highly skilled, highly paid jobs—then that's an interesting moment, but we do need the quantum of funding not just coming from the Welsh Treasury, but also from the UK Treasury as well. So, we'll keep on making that argument, because we know the scale of what we need to do, not just this year, but in the decade, 15, 20 years ahead, is significant.

We're looking, first of all, of course, at the issue of coal tips, because we've identified and we've assessed where those risks are and so on, where instability needs to be prioritised, and we've categorised them, and so on. But as I made clear in response to other comments, there will also be other tips, non-coal tips as well, which we'll also need to move on to. The authority will be able to focus on them as well, if it sees that there is an instability issue in a non-coal tip, but, actually, there is still those to get to, beyond the initial prioritisation. So, yes, the demand on funding for this will continue, both on a Welsh and a UK level. 

Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd. I'm still a bit confused because we heard the First Minister say that she only asked for £25 million, and I've heard you say that's all that you could spend at the moment, but then we've heard another £12 million announced today. So, why didn't we ask for that £12 million? Why didn't we ask for £37 million from UK Government if we could spend it?

You said that this Bill is about keeping people safe, and I've raised with you and your predecessor many times the safety concerns of residents affected by open-cast mining in my region, notably the case of East Pit. They're deeply disappointed that the Welsh Government have decided against the inclusion of provisions relating to the restoration of former open-cast mines. You said this was complex. Yes, it is, but it's not impossible. And if your aim is about keeping people safe, then it's really crucial. The impact of East Pit void filling with 40 million cu m of water at 175m above sea level on an active earthquake fault, with unstable rubble sides, is unassessed and unknown, but it's not unknowable. So, if the Welsh Government won't take responsibility to organise and fund the new assessments needed under this legislation, who therefore is responsible? Because my constituents at least deserve an answer on that, because everyone is passing the buck on this. Will you provide that information?

Thank you for that. There's a good reason that opencast remediation is not within this Bill, and as you know, I and David Rees also have an opencast within our territory, the former Parc Slip, half of which now is a wildlife reserve, half of which is a void filled with water. And some of those have really complex histories, as you know. They have really complex histories of ownership, sometimes the offshoring of ownership and companies being set up that are not the original developer, operator, owner of that site, and often the local authorities are left then to actually manage what is happening, particularly when there is water within voids, and so on.

I don't want to refer to any one specifically at the moment, but there are good reasons why this is not within this Bill. If we want to deliver on the programme of government commitment, on the recommendations of the Law Commission, on the recommendations of the coal taskforce, then this is the Bill that does that on coal tip safety. I think I would simply say to you that there's another job of work that needs to be done on opencast remediation, without a doubt—I agree with you—but this Bill needs to be delivered on time. We are entering into the final legislative year of a Government as we take this Bill forward, and I want to deliver this well and safely for all the people that we've talked about in the affected communities today, and not to enlarge this in scope that will add complexity that we may need to delay and take more time over and risk losing the Bill. Let's not do that, Sioned. Let's focus on what we have here and what we can win through this.

And there is another issue that we need to return to, which is the issue of opencast remediation. That, I think, is something that we need to deal with, not just at a Wales level, but at a UK level as well. Because, again, we're looking at a legacy issue there. I look at the one in my own area, the Parc Slip and the East Pit area of that. That was a legacy of the time, I think, of John Major, where there was no bond or remediation put in place for that whatsoever. So, I think there's something to return to, and I agree, I empathise with what you're saying, but let's deliver this Bill, because this will deliver safety for all those people in Wales who are living with coal tips right next to them. Diolch yn fawr.

Thank you, Dirprwy Lywydd. Two years ago, the First Minister, Eluned Morgan, published a quality statement that set out, for the first time in Wales, what women and girls could and should expect, which is good-quality health and care services across Wales. This marked a pivotal moment for change in Wales, and it signalled that change was needed and expected in the way women and girls experience health services and how their experiences are responded to by NHS services.

Because while women and girls make up more than 50 per cent of the population, health services are not designed for us. Modern medicine has not always met our needs, because it has been based on a typical male experience of care, which has resulted in significant inequalities between men and women. There is a growing body of evidence about women's symptoms being undervalued, overlooked or dismissed, about women waiting longer than men for pain relief. It is time to break down these barriers and ensure that every woman receives the care that they deserve.

How often have we discussed in this Siambr and in committees about how women's experiences, about how women's symptoms, about how women's voices have been ignored? This can and does have a significant impact on women's physical and mental well-being, because of delays in diagnosing disease, failures to offer effective treatment and then poorer outcomes.

Yesterday, the First Minister and I attended a Women Connect First 'Let's Age Well' exercise class in Cardiff to mark the end of a really busy two years of hard work. We were there to launch Wales's first ever women's health plan for Wales. I am proud that the plan is published today. This will transform the way the NHS will treat women across all health conditions, from asthma and heart disease to thyroid conditions and carpal tunnel.

We know that inequalities are not just based on gender. This plan will be underpinned by the principles of intersectionality, recognising that women's experiences are shaped by the complex interplay of factors such as race, ethnicity, disability, sexual orientation and socioeconomic status. The health service in Wales must respond to the differing needs of individuals, demonstrate cultural competence and work towards dismantling the systemic barriers that prevent women from accessing the care they need. It will empower women and girls to be heard when accessing healthcare. It sets out how we will deliver the better services women and girls in Wales want, and includes nearly 60 actions across eight priorities.

Dirprwy Lywydd, as I said at the start of this statement, this plan has been two years in the making. Its development is in three distinct stages: discovery, design and delivery. The discovery phase was completed in 2022, which captured the voices and experience of around 4,000 women and girls from across Wales, together with a comprehensive evidence review of women’s health, identifying the key themes and recommendations to provide the foundations on which the plan would be built. The national strategic clinical network for women’s health was set up, and Wales’s first clinical lead for women’s health, Dr Helen Munro, moved us into the design phase.

The network is led by clinicians and it will enhance the quality, safety and outcomes of care at national, regional and local levels. The plan has been designed through partnership working via the women’s health network and has involved 100 named contributors from all of the health boards, Public Health Wales, the NHS executive, academia and the Welsh Government. It is informed by the quality statement, the discovery report, and by the third sector women’s health Wales coalition’s quality statement for the health of women, girls and those assigned female at birth. Feedback on the draft plan was sought from the NHS and members of the third sector women’s health Wales coalition, and from focus groups with younger women and black, Asian and ethnic minority women. I want to sincerely thank you all.

We have not stood still while the plan has been in its discovery and design phases. We have been working to strengthen services and recruit new staff across Wales ready for the plan’s delivery. There are now pelvic health co-ordinators and specialist endometriosis nurses in every health board. We have launched the dedicated Endometriosis Cymru website, set up new one-stop clinics for breast cancer and improved access to perinatal psychology. Now we are focusing on improving access to services and reducing that variation across Wales. The health Secretary has published a written statement today providing an important update about the work over the last 12 months on gynaecological cancer.

We now move firmly into the delivery phase of the women’s health plan. It sets out a series of short, medium and longer-term actions. Work, again, has already started to ensure women’s health hubs, which will be available in each health board area by March 2026, improve timely access to services, making it easier for women to obtain the care they need while promoting preventative measures and empowering them to take charge of their health and well-being. I'm very pleased to announce that we have secured £3 million to support the women’s health plan next year in the draft budget. A dedicated women’s health research budget of £750,000 has also been identified and will be launched in April 2025. We will also be improving the information available through the development of a women’s health website.

Furthermore, I want to see improvements to endometriosis services, ensuring women receive multiprofessional care, including access to mental health support. Embedding women’s voices will be the key to effective delivery of the plan. This is a living plan, capable of responding to new issues and new evidence in real time, including any results from the new research.

I want to close by saying that while there is a focus on menopause, endometriosis and other aspects of reproductive health in the women’s health plan, improving women’s health is not only about improving gynaecology and reproductive health services. The women’s health network has an important role in advocating for women across all health conditions. This will include working with other clinical networks to ensure women’s needs are considered, their voices are heard and their experiences are recognised.

This plan is the culmination of a huge amount of work, and I would like to thank the national strategic clinical network for women’s health for their dedication in getting us to this point. This is an ambitious 10-year plan because it is time to prioritise the health and well-being of every woman and girl in Wales, regardless of their background, ethnicity or socioeconomic status. Women’s health is everyone’s health. By improving the health of women in Wales, we will improve the health of the nation. Diolch. 

Thank you very much for your statement this evening, Minister. I'm pleased to be responding today. This statement is welcome news and gives reassurance that the Welsh Government is recognising the importance of women's health and the urgency required to close the gender health gap. It's also important to note areas of agreement and that, as an opposition Member, I don't oppose for the sake of it, but always for a reason. In this statement today there are a lot of encouraging announcements that I'm pleased to hear. But firstly, I'd like to remind the Minister just how behind we are on this issue in Wales, due to Welsh Government delay, and the resulting mountain they have to climb. And secondly, I'd like to enquire as to the detail of the plan and how the Welsh Government intends to ensure delivery and progress on its targets.

Wales was the only nation in Great Britain without a women's health plan. The UK Conservative Government published theirs for England in 2022, and I'm pleased that the Welsh Government have finally published their plan before the end of 2024. As we know, despite women and girls making up more than half the Welsh population, women's health and well-being is often undervalued and under-resourced. There has been neglect or oversight when it comes to severe period pain, gynaecological cancer, endometriosis, mental health conditions, and many others, with economic inequalities also intersecting with the broader inequalities linked to women's health.

Just under 30 per cent of women and girls in Wales experience severe period pain, which begins at puberty and often does not subside until menopause. This means decades of suffering and one to two days of school or work lost each month, which is damaging to the individual's life and career and a hit for the healthcare system and the economy. I'm sure that if a similar percentage of men were afflicted by search routine pain, the issue would be more on our radar. Older women are also particularly vulnerable to mental health problems, with depression affecting 28 per cent of the female population of the UK aged over 65, and women being more at risk of dementia than men, with women making up to 65 per cent of people suffering with it.

We are also seriously behind in Wales when it comes to the treatment of endometriosis, with women waiting 10 years for a diagnosis. The length of time to get a diagnosis has increased by a year since the start of the pandemic, and the condition, which is acutely painful, is often overlooked, with women in Wales being told by medical professionals that they were making a fuss about nothing or what they were experiencing was simply menstrual pain. The Welsh Government also appointed specialist endometriosis nurses to every health board in 2022, yet the issues with misdiagnoses got worse, so it's important that the women's health plan isn't just saying the right thing, but we see measurable improvements as a result of the plan. We need to see clinicians better educated on women's health, so that their pain is not overlooked or diminished, and I am pleased that the statement covers the need for changing attitudes.

On economic gender-based inequalities, the gap in healthy life expectancy between the most and least deprived women is approximately 17 years, which is an unbelievable figure. So, I was disappointed that the statement today made no mention of the health inequalities faced by poorer women in Wales. I think inequality more broadly is one of the biggest issues of our time here in Wales, and it should feature in the women's health plan, with a view to tackling the health inequality faced by many.

Moving on to women's health hubs, I think this is an exciting announcement and I look forward to seeing them rolled out and following their progress. I will say, however, that I wish the Welsh Government would invest more in general community healthcare, which is lacking in many areas of Wales, especially in north Wales, where greater capacity has desperately been needed for decades and hasn't been forthcoming from the Welsh Government.

In summary, this statement is welcome news, and I look forward to a swift roll-out of the measures included in the women's health plan. But I'd also like to reiterate that we should have received this years ago, and we are behind in Wales in having a women's health plan, and women's health more generally needs radical reform. The Welsh Government has a mountain to climb on bridging the gap in women's health, and despite being pleased with the many announcements, such as the introduction of women's health hubs, we need more detail on exactly what will be implemented, how the Government expects to deliver and meet the targets. I'd also strongly urge the Minister to consider focusing on the role of deprivation in women's health inequalities and set targets to ensure that there are no economic barriers to a long and healthy life. Thank you very much.

Thank you very much, Gareth Davies, for that contribution. Thank you, honestly, for giving me probably the most obvious question and criticism that we have had of the women's health plan so that I can address it very clearly now. The difference with Scotland's and England's women's health plans was that they were designed by the Government and then they were given to the NHS to deliver, and that is not what we chose to do here in Wales. There are women here in the gallery today; they are the clinicians, they are the doctors, they are the gynaecologists, they are the experts, and they have designed it.

It is over 25,000 words; it is clinically led, it is absolutely exceptional, and it is what the women of Wales deserve. It has taken time because it's so good, and it's a 10-year plan. I would argue, having read the other two plans that you referred to, that this is further along, and I think will get us to the same place in the same time. And at the end of the day, as you mentioned, it is the outcomes. But I appreciate the question, because it is something that has been mentioned many times. We've done it differently in Wales, and I think that we've done it in a way that's appropriate for the size of our nation and for the women and for what they asked for.

I also want to really thank you, honestly, for reiterating many of the feelings that women have, and empathising with that. I think that will be very appreciated. I also appreciate that you always focus on mental health and well-being, and this is absolutely crucial. There is a section within the plan that specifically looks to this. And also, so much of this is going to be about working across Government. So, for example, I'm the Minister for Mental Health and Well-being; I will be delivering two strategies next year. All of this will be incorporated into it.

It's the same answer, really, for the dementia health plan. We had a very good debate on that last week. The statistics are in this women's health plan to say that we know that women are diagnosed later, that they're less diagnosed. So, that is something that I can ensure is incorporated into that strategy as well.

I really appreciate you pointing out endometriosis. This is something where we have not waited for the plan to come out. This is why, when the First Minister was in the role of women's health, she immediately ensured that every health board had an endo nurse and somebody there who would be able to support women. I think the key thing here, though, is that we have to ensure that in that initial three-year plan, those roles are still making sure that that's the priority, that they're still focusing on endometriosis.

You asked lots of questions then around it being measurable. I don't think we could have had clearer targets in here. We've got eight priority areas, 60 commitments and priorities that are all going to be achieved and can be achieved because the NHS have said that they will achieve them in the next 10 years. But not only that, there's the funding to go with it, because the money matters. You ask anyone: the money matters, and we've got the money—the money is being put here.

I'm sorry that you didn't hear me mention twice in my opening socioeconomic and intersectionality and diversity and inclusion, and I'm sorry that you didn't read the sections in the women's health plan that specifically mention the socioeconomic imbalance, the violence against women, domestic abuse and sexual violence. It is threading through absolutely everything, as well as many plans that my colleague Cabinet Secretary Jane Hutt leads on. We absolutely are aware of this. We're a Welsh Labour Welsh Government: we get what that means, and we get the impact that it has.

Just to end, I would like to push back on some of the things that you said. I believe this is radical. I believe that we are putting funding in there. I believe that there are timescales, and I believe that this is a really good day for women in Wales. Diolch.

I welcome the publication of this plan. In truth, it's long overdue. I'd like to start by paying tribute to the many stakeholders and Members across this Chamber who have campaigned tirelessly on this issue. Women are the 51 per cent majority of the population, and yet for far too long their health needs have been marginalised. The fact that we've had to wait several years for this plan to finally emerge is emblematic of this fundamental inequity at the heart of our health system.

While I accept the input from the various members of the public into this plan, Wales is still lagging behind Scotland and England in implementing a women's health plan that is fit for the coming decade. I would urge the Government to make up for lost time now that the plan is finally here, and to ensure that its intentions are put into action as quickly and effectively as possible, because the evidence of women being disadvantaged by the current health system is overwhelming.

The waiting list for gynaecological conditions, for example, is the fifth highest of the 82 treatment types listed on the StatsWales website, at almost 51,000 pathways. As I've mentioned many times, cancer waiting times as a whole in Wales, which remain far short of the clinically recommended targets, are alarming, but the situation is even worse for gynaecological cancers, with the latest statistics showing only 38 per cent of patients starting treatment within 62 days.

The same applies for cervical cancer, the most common cancer amongst young women under 35 in Wales, yet the Government continues to drag its feet on rolling out HPV self-screening kits, a proven method that over half of women prefer over traditional smear tests. And only 70 per cent of year 9 and year 10 students receive their HPV vaccinations—well below the World Health Organization's 90 per cent target needed to eliminate cervical cancer by 2030. Cervical cancer is preventable, which is why we need to see action.

A similar picture emerges with respect to endometriosis. Despite affecting around one in 10 women, it's a condition that is only belatedly being recognised with the seriousness it merits, and, once again, Welsh women have been particularly let down. On average, it takes nine years and 11 months for women in Wales to receive an endometriosis diagnosis, which is the longest wait in the UK. When will we see an improved referral system, ensuring improved responses for endometriosis patients here in Wales?

We know that women with learning disabilities suffer from huge inequalities, yet no 'easy read' of this plan was published, and it only refers to women with learning disabilities once. Can the Minister explain this omission?

I welcome the fund for research, but I'm concerned that £750,000 is not near enough. Any university research department would expect a minimum of £1 million to be able to do a meaningful piece of work. The Scottish Government, once again, has provided £4 million for research. So, can the Minister detail what she hopes to achieve with this research budget?

And then there is the normalisation of women's physical and emotional pain in the context of childbirth, perinatal and postnatal mental health, and the menopause, a topic that my colleague Delyth Jewell rightly brought to the attention of the Senedd during her recent Member's debate. Can the Minister confirm whether or not the objectives of the plan will be underpinned by clearly defined targets and milestones, with the deployment of resources to match on a yearly basis in this regard?

And can the Minister detail what impact this statement will have on staffing levels of healthcare professionals who specialise in women’s health? Can we expect that they will be sufficient to meet demand? For this plan to be truly effective, it must be accompanied by cultural shifts too. Our schools, universities, and public institutions have a responsibility to inform and educate on women's health issues, thereby addressing the harmful stigmas and taboos that have all too frequently been associated with this area of healthcare. Workplaces should be encouraged to have specific guidelines and protocols in place for issues such as period pain, so that women don't have to suffer in silence. Most of all, we need the societal recognition that striving for gender equality is truly a public health matter, and I sincerely hope this plan takes us a step forward on this path.

Thank you very, very much. I've scribbled all of those down, I hope, Mabon. I know that you've asked many questions on this before. You're very passionate, particularly around the gynaecological cancer waiting times, which I understand.

Coming back, though, to setting out what we're going to be doing now to deliver, to reassure you: so, even as soon as the beginning of next year, the next things are going to be the women's health hubs. They're going to be assigned for work, scoped, in every single health board, and we will have feedback on that in March 2026. We will have a women’s health website. That is absolutely crucial to having that education, that empowerment, women being able to advocate for themselves, more transparency around pathways. So, that's going to be really important. We're also going to embed 'make every contact count', because that's the thing—as you said, women, we have screenings, we go in and see our GPs, we come into contact with the NHS, and every opportunity is a chance to ask about these questions, raise these issues, and hopefully direct them towards the website so that they can look at it in their own time. So, it's about all of this coming together for the empowerment of women.

We've also got pelvic health and incontinence—so we've got work being done on that at the moment to raise awareness, and also to provide quality information on pelvic health and perinatal health, including videos, which is going to be coming out. And then when it comes to endometriosis, it's going to be providing education and training to all healthcare practitioners on endometriosis as a chronic condition. We're going to embed women’s voices, we're going to focus on gynae waiting times, and we're going to have the ongoing awareness raising and engagement. So, that's going to be immediately, now that we're here and ready to deliver.

When it comes to gynaecological cancer and the waiting times, the Cabinet Secretary put out a statement today, just to separate them, honestly, because we already have the cancer pathway, so we were not going to have gynaecological cancer here as well. However, so much—. I was on the Senedd committee when we did the investigation into gynaecological cancers, and it was the first time I heard that phrase by Claire O'Shea, who said about 'medical gaslighting'. Judith Rowlands, who is no longer with us—she was certain, she was telling her clinicians, 'I know the cancer’s come back', and they just wouldn't believe her until it was too late. I've always had this in my heart and in my head when we've been putting this together, as I know so many women have.

There was a gynae summit in the summer. It had, again, all the best people from across Wales come together and identify the pathways that they're going to be looking at now. Some of our health boards are doing okay and some of them just aren't, and the Cabinet Secretary has been really frank about that. Let's just say it as it is and say it's not good enough, and also ensure that when we're targeting money about waiting lists, that women are included and the gynaecological issues are included.

HPV and prevention—there's a whole section in the plan on that prevention. Again, it's about education, it's about empowerment, it's about ensuring that women in particular have that access to sexual health and feel comfortable to be able to talk about these things. You also mentioned, as many will today, I'm sure, about endometriosis, because you were the one who said you weren't aware of endometriosis until you started working in the Senedd, and, honestly, I've learnt so much from doing this as well. I think it's a kind of testament to the power of the women. Your voices have actually come through the Senedd and pushed us to get this done. With endometriosis, we're doing everything that we can, and it is one of the key priorities as well, so it's absolutely been identified by the women who are coming through. I'm working with the JCC now, the joint commissioning committee, because it should be a specialism, in my view. I think that's the path that we're on, because the issue that we've got at the moment is that when you've got a couple of centres in Wales, when they can't take anybody else because it's not a specialism, it's very difficult then to ensure that people are getting that care. That's what's being fed through to us. We are working on a solution.

On learning disabilities, I would argue that that comes under the intersectionality, because a lot of it is around—. And intersectionality—by that I mean the health discrimination, the stigma and the stereotypes. However, this is something that I've been discussing with the women's network, and going forward, because this is a live document, this will be something that we'll add to with more case studies as we work with people with lived experience, to really set out what that means for them and what they need. Again, I'm the Minister for learning disabilities, so this is something that's very close to my heart.

I'm glad you also asked about the £750,000 research budget, because, again, I was just talking to the women outside who are going to be delivering on this, and I said, 'Is it enough?', because people have been saying it doesn't seem like a lot, and I'm so sorry, I've forgotten the word that you told me, but, basically, the fact that the Welsh Government is going to put that money into it means that it is like an incubator. It will bring in more money. This is what the women in research—this is professors—said to me. It will bring in more money. It makes it clear that what we're funding, this research, is important. And just to say, it's not the only place where you can get funding for any of these projects. There are other avenues as well. But this is going to be really specific, and it's going to be set out by the women, again, who know what they're doing, and are going to make sure that we get the most and the best out of it for the women in Wales, and address that inequality in research.

Just to say as well, yes, there will be KPIs that will be set. The cultural competency aspect is really important. There are also parts in here—. There are priorities and key milestones as well for higher education and further education and the workplace. And, yes, thank you for welcoming it. Anything else that I haven't covered, I'm more than happy to write to you about, or the women's health network, I'm sure, will pick up on and write to you about, but this is incredibly comprehensive, and I would just reassure you that everything that you've mentioned has been taken into consideration, and we will continue to make it better and better.

I obviously very much welcome the publication of the women's health plan today, and particularly the work that will emanate from that, because the plan is one thing but it's the practical change and improvements that we all want to see and that will make a difference to people's lives. I've raised in here previously my own connections and interest in improving gynaecological cancer outcomes, and I'd welcome a further conversation with yourself about that.

But today I wanted to focus on the elements of intersectionality that are touched on in the plan, and just to raise something around how this plan will work alongside perhaps other Welsh Government plans, such as the LGBTQ+ action plan, because one of the things in that is actually—. It's almost like the basics of helping practitioners to better empathise and understand the practical situations of members of the LGBTQ+ community. I think I once said in here in a very different context that, like devolution, coming out is a process not an event, and it has certainly felt like that to me on occasion, when I've been to the GP or various services, having to just explain or defend my situation. Thankfully, I have the confidence to do that, but it hasn't always been like that. So, can I ask if further consideration can be given to how those plans will work together, and on some of those really simple things that could make a real difference to people's lives?

Thank you so much, Hannah Blythyn, for that question. Of course, you led on and delivered the 'LGBTQ+ Action Plan for Wales', which has been referenced in the women's health plan for Wales as well. And I would reiterate, I suppose, what I said to Mabon ap Gwynfor, which is my own learning throughout this process about what that intersectionality really means. It does mean discrimination, that health discrimination, it means that stigma, and it means as well those stereotypes, those assumptions that are made about people. And I was looking through the action plan that you led on, and I just wanted to say that, obviously, there's a section in there under healthcare, and a lot of it is just raising that awareness, bridging those gaps, stopping people from making those assumptions, and I think that the women's health network will be more than happy to work with you and be able to work together to cross off, really, that action point that you have in your plan. And also I hugely welcome it for all women in Wales, across Wales. So, yes, absolutely, thank you very much for the question.

Thank you, Cabinet Secretary, for publishing this much-needed and much-anticipated plan. There are a few areas of concern that I wish to touch upon, which I feel are not addressed quite accurately in the plan. Firstly, I feel that it's crucial that we raise awareness of the signs and symptoms of female-specific cancers. It's always genuinely tragic when symptoms are ignored or not recognised until it's too late and sadly lives are lost. I had, indeed, hoped that the plan would recognise the urgent need to reduce diagnosis times for this group of cancers, but this appears to have been overlooked. Indeed, Breast Cancer Now have issued a statement today in relation to this very plan, stating that they are very disappointed that no detail has been given on how the Welsh Government will improve early detection and care for those who have breast cancer when one in seven women in the UK will develop the disease in their lifetime. End quote. 

Whilst on the subject of breast cancer, I wanted to mention those patients who need breast reconstruction following a mastectomy. COVID severely impacted on such procedures and, in 2023, there were reports of a constituent of mine who had waited six years to have her reconstructive surgery due to numerous cancellations. So, how is the Welsh Government ensuring that this important and specific aspect of women's healthcare is adequately addressed?

Now, staying with female-specific cancers, after reading the written statement from the health Minister today on gynaecological cancers, I understand that digital learning will be rolled out to GPs to, and I quote,

'support clinical teams to assess people who present with symptoms and to make good referral decisions.'

However, we all know here in this Chamber how stretched GPs actually are, and I'm concerned that this may not happen as urgently as is needed.

Just like my colleague Gareth Davies, I am indeed pleased that endometriosis is indeed forming a central part of the plan, but has any consideration been given to a public information campaign to prevent women from mistaking symptoms for a normal part of their menstrual cycle? The success of this plan will be judged by whether we see a reduction in waiting times for both treatment and diagnosis for women's health issues, coupled with the closing of the gender health gap. I really do, like many of my colleagues in this Chamber, want to see this plan succeed in charting a new route for women's health in Wales, and I sincerely hope for every single woman in Wales that we are not here in 10 years' time talking about any missed opportunities. Thank you.

Thank you so much, Natasha Asghar. So, in relation to the cancer, as I've said—and this would also go, then, for breast cancer—the women's health plan was never going to incorporate them as the key priorities, because there's already the cancer pathway programme. And so to separate them out was felt, by the clinicians, who are here today and who have designed and developed this—by separating it out, it would make it complex and would make it confusing. So, I do not want anybody to think that because it's not in this women's health plan that it's not something that we take extremely seriously. And that is exactly why the Cabinet Secretary put out a statement today specifically explaining about cancer. I apologise if Breast Cancer Now, who I think are—if they've not felt that that also incorporated them. And I'm sure that we will pick that up, and that is absolutely fine. But what I would say, though, is that the purpose of this plan is also about making sure that women are listened to and heard when they come forward with those symptoms. 

You asked about having the campaigns. What we tend to do as Welsh Government is that we tend to support charities and organisations with their campaigns. It's been proven to be far more effective. And then, as I mentioned, we're going to have the women's health plan website, where we'll be able to have a wealth of information and knowledge, including transparency around those pathways. I'm very, very sorry to hear about your constituent who has had to wait so long. This is something that we can certainly pick up.

You mentioned as well about the training for GPs. They do have a lot to do, but my experience with GPs when talking to them about this is that they want to learn more, they want more—[Interruption.] They want to be able to do it, and we are in discussions with them as well, because I’m also the Minister for digital health innovation, around the NHS app, around the maternity app. These are things that they're incorporating into the plan because they will make such a difference to everybody in Wales, and particularly women. Again, it’s that education, it’s that empowerment, it’s that advocacy, and I think that everything that you’re asking for, we have found a way to be able to drive that forward, but, again, anything you’d like to pick up afterwards, I’m more than happy to do so. This is a live document. That’s the beauty of it. We can add to it and we can incorporate more as we go.

I recently reminded the First Minister of the ongoing terrible and disabling experiences of Welsh women fitted with vaginal mesh, and noted that the initial discovery report didn’t mention them at all, so I asked her about how the treatment of mesh patients would be included in the plan, what funding would be allocated to them, what conversations have happened with the new Westminster Government around the UK-wide response to the Hughes report, because we’ve had no statement from the Welsh Government, although that report was published last February. In reply, she told me we’d have to wait for the publication of the plan, and she’s written to me today confirming there’s no mention of these issues in the plan, although promises were made to the task and finish group set up Vaughan Gething around specialist services. So, when can we expect a response on the Hughes report? Dr Hughes said that this is a health scandal and injustice as big as thalidomide, and it specifically affects women, thousands of women in Wales. So, for the First Minister to say in her letter to me the plan can’t mention every area of women’s health and is an example for not addressing this issue isn’t good enough. So, what action will you take, Minister?

Thank you so much, Sioned Williams, for continuing to raise this issue. In my discussions with women who have had pelvic mesh, they’ve said to me it’s probably one of the clearest examples of women’s health inequalities that we have ever seen, how this has all transpired. As you’ve said, the First Minister wrote to you this morning to clarify after you asked the question in the statement, and I also wanted to say that the Welsh Government absolutely recognises the women suffering from the consequences of mesh implants. The women’s health plan is the NHS response to the quality statement for women and girls’ health and the discovery report, and the plan is a national plan aimed at improving health services for women and women’s experiences. And although the plan doesn’t specifically talk about mesh, the plan contains eight priority areas identified by women in the discovery phase, and the determinants that led to the adverse experiences of women having mesh complications are being addressed by the plan.

The Welsh Government is considering the recommendations from the Dr Hughes report. We are working closely with colleagues in the UK Government and other devolved administrations in ensuring that the response by the UK Government takes account of the impact on patients harmed in devolved nations. Pelvic health and incontinence is a priority area in the women’s health plan, and this is actually something that the First Minister has been incredibly passionate about. If you ask anybody, this was the part where she absolutely insisted that we covered this, and she’s very, very passionate about ensuring that this is addressed. So, we will be able to give a response as soon as possible, I assure you.

I wanted to ask about two things. First of all is endometriosis, and we have to thank organisations like the Fair Treatment for the Women of Wales for actually taking this to the streets—the people who organise the endo marches across the UK who’ve actually helped educate the whole population. This is no longer a subject that hardly anybody knows about, and thank you for recognising in your plan that the one in 10 women with endometriosis is probably an under-representation because of the time it takes to get diagnosed and the 26 visits to the doctor before you actually get that diagnosis. So, we clearly need more training for GPs, who can’t know everything, because they’re general doctors, but we also need much better training for gynaecologists, because of the number of women I’ve met who’ve been multiple times to see a gynaecologist who simply hasn’t listened carefully enough and they’ve had to go private in order to get their diagnosis of endometriosis. So, it shouldn’t have taken the national confidential inquiry that was published in July to recognise that we absolutely need to train people whose job is women’s gynaecological health that this is one of the major issues that they should be looking for. So, the endo nurses set up by the First Minister when she was health Minister have been very important, along with the various online resources for preparing women to know what questions they have to ask and not to go away without the answers when the clinician isn't necessarily looking for endometriosis.

So, my question around this is that we can't go on having only one tertiary centre, because Cardiff simply cannot fund this on the basis of one in, one out, given that these operations can take up to eight hours, involving several specialist clinicians. So, two medium-term issues: the financial model, and I wonder if you can say a bit more about how we're going to develop this financial model for further tertiary centres, because it really isn't fair that people from north Wales or west Wales have to come all the way to Cardiff, and, frankly, the people in Cardiff already have a very long waiting list. So, we clearly need more endo consultants. If you could say a little bit more about that medium-term thing, because this is something that we've really been asking for for a very long time.

Secondly, I want to talk about preparing people for pregnancy, because not only do we need more of the Baby Think It Over digital dolls, which help young people understand that becoming a parent isn't a walk in the park—it's a lifelong commitment—I think one of the most concerning things is that midwives report that they are simply not spending long enough with people to gain their confidence, so that when they say that it is not a good idea to do x, the women have built up that confidence and aren't just taking what they've heard on the street or they've read online. So, they need to spend longer with prospective parents to establish that necessary trust, particularly when you look at the really quite stark statistics that you've published in the report around the fact that—. Obviously, we all know that smoking in pregnancy has appalling outcomes for the impact on the baby, but only a 2 per cent reduction between when they are pregnant and they're identified as smoking when they get pregnant, only a 2 per cent reduction by the time they deliver. Clearly, there's not enough time being spent, because all women want to do the right thing by their baby, and yet they're still continuing this very harmful behaviour.

I think the worst statistic you published is that over 60 per cent were above the recommended BMI, because, in terms of obesity, we know that this is one of the major causes of complications in pregnancy. I'm very disturbed to hear that the 'Healthy Weight: Healthy Wales' taskforce hasn't met in the last 12 months, or so I was told by a clinician. That is something we really do need to do a hell of a lot more about. We need to ensure that everybody's got a tape measure—

Jenny Rathbone, I'm sorry to cut across. I'm going to allow you to finish. We don't discuss these matters enough in the Senedd. I'm getting that message clearly, and it's an important discussion, but I do need to call lots of other Members who want to contribute as well, so if you can bring your contribution to a close.

I apologise, Presiding Officer. Basically, how are we going to get midwives and their team, their multidisciplinary team, spending more time with people who want to be pregnant and who then get pregnant?

Thank you so much. Excellent questions, as always. Just to say that I completely agree with you when it comes to people understanding and preparing to become parents, and a lot of this is having that contact with your midwife and being able to make those choices, but it's also very much about the wraparound and providing money for specific projects on this. I actually visited a project in the Rhondda last week, where there was a young woman who was care experienced, her mother had been care experienced as well, so it had been a generational experience that they'd had. She really just didn't want anything to do with services. She didn't want anything to do with social services and she didn't want anything to do with midwives, and then she was pregnant, and her partner was care experienced too, and they were terrified. And then they started working with an absolutely wonderful group of midwives, of social workers, who wrapped the service around them. They didn't try to make them fit into the services available, and that's what she said made the difference. She is a wonderful advocate. Her daughter was not taken into care. She's pregnant with her next baby now. She doesn't need any support services any more. That's the kind of service we should be providing, so I agree with you about midwives having more time and being able to tailor the experience and the service to the parents.

I would say it comes back to that education and empowerment, then, around women's health and preconception health. That's a big part of this plan, because it came through in the discovery, as well. And I want to thank you for pointing out the statistics, because it is true, we haven't shied away from putting these statistics in there. This is what I said at the beginning—this is very much clinically led, it's based on data, it's based on research. We're pointing out these issues and then we're really going to tackle them, and 'A Healthier Wales' is very much threaded through. And I also just wanted to say, as well, that, whenever I think of endometriosis, I think of you accepting the petition from Beth Hales on the steps of the Senedd, which kind of kicked a lot of this campaigning off and has probably, really, led to this being such an important part of the women's health plan. So, thank you very much, Jenny Rathbone.

Thank you so much, Siân Gwenllian. I completely agree with everything that you said in opening—this is very much the power of the people, honestly, and not just women, because I think, today, as we've talked a lot about women in healthcare, and it's absolutely true, but there are a lot of men, as well. There are a lot of men who have been absolutely collaborating and fighting to really tackle these health inequalities.

Also, I'm very grateful because, since taking on this role, you came straight to me, raising the issues that you have and the concerns that you have—the very serious, very real concerns that you have for the perinatal mental health service provision in north Wales. I agreed then to relook at it, and I have commissioned the joint commissioning committee to look at and do a review of this, on whether there is any other way that we could possibly deliver this service. I am happy to arrange for you to meet directly with the joint commissioning committee whilst we wait for that review to be completed. I am sorry that it is not quick; it is taking some time. However, it does take time because it's very serious and they need to look through all of the data.

Just to say, I've only asked for two things to be reviewed since I came into this role and those were the endometriosis specialists and the perinatal mental health provision for women in north Wales. This is absolutely a priority for me. I check in all the time and ask for updates, as well, from the health board—are there any women waiting, are there any women being turned away because there isn't a service in north Wales? I very much keep an eye on this. Also, to say again, I met with the women who deliver the service, and when I met with them, they said, at the time, there was no need for those beds, however, this is where I understand that you have questions and this is where I'm asking to have that really thoroughly looked into. So, I will arrange for you to meet with the JCC whilst they carry out this review, and I will get a date for you, as well.

Thank you very much, Minister, for bringing this statement here today, following the publication of the women's health plan. I think it is a good day for women in Wales, so, diolch. I think this finally does give women's health the attention it deserves, and we hope that it will avoid some of the suffering that women have had needlessly, and also end the health inequalities that are vividly described in the plan. I think that this, as I say, is a good day for women in Wales.

I'd like to use this opportunity to raise the issue of the support that women receive following the loss of a baby. I recently met with Dr Sarah Douglass, a principal clinical psychologist, who has set up in Cardiff the first Welsh NHS psychology-led bereavement service for those who experience the death of a baby either after 17 weeks of pregnancy or up to 28 days following the birth of their baby. I was tremendously impressed by the quality of help that they were providing, and I know you did go to the launch of their service, because they told me that you were there.

At the moment, all health boards in Wales have bereavement midwives, but we haven't previously had maternity psychology services focusing on the bereavement support for baby loss. I also met a number of women who had had help from the service. I know that the loss of a child is a huge strain on a woman, psychologically and physically, and I think expanding this service in Cardiff and replicating it around Wales would be a huge support to women, and I think it would be a very important part of developing the women's health plan. So, how do you see this development?

Thank you so much, Julie Morgan. It does give me an opportunity as well just to reiterate what I've said to many women here today, which is that I'm standing on the shoulders of giants here, a phrase that my colleague Hannah Blythyn uses often and I feel is very appropriate. I get to stand here today and be the person who gets to deliver this in the Chamber, but, oh my goodness, there has been so much that has gone into this and so many generations. I would say, Julie Morgan, that you are one of my inspirations and one of the reasons why I'm here today having the opportunity to do this. I've learnt so much from you about inequalities. 

I just want to say that it was absolutely wonderful to go and see that Welsh NHS psychology-led bereavement service, the first and only one in Wales. Again, it comes back to what I was saying earlier on: there are so many good things happening across our NHS to tackle these inequalities, and it is usually a group of some very tenacious people. I've met many of them, these clusters that we have in every health board, where it starts off with a few and then it grows, and they make the case for funding and they make the case for services. They're absolutely fantastic and I'm absolutely in awe of all of them, and this is exactly one of those projects.

They have the rainbow group, they have the onnen group—it's so experience led. When I went to the launch, I got to see a mum talking about her experience of losing her little boy. She was pregnant again, and they were really getting her through that anxiety that she understandably felt. I also went and visited the Cardiff and Vale midwife team, which is at the University Hospital of Wales, and met with the bereavement midwives. I just wanted to add as well that, when we have these specialisms and we maybe have one or two people per health board, it's difficult, then, to have that resilience embedded in the infrastructure, in the team. If one person is not in, then this is when things can go very wrong. That's something that I'm very, very conscious of in the NHS workforce planning.

Also, just to say, I think it's tremendous—I think it's made a huge, huge difference. I think Dr Douglass is very inspiring, and I would love to see this rolled out, and it is something that we can certainly—I will certainly—ask the NHS clinical network to look at, please.

The women's health plan must mark a change in how women are treated, yes, in healthcare, because too many women, we've heard, they're not believed about their bodies, their symptoms are missed, their concerns are dismissed. Now, some weeks ago, I presented a motion to the Senedd that called for the women's health plan to address and counter the normalisation of women's pain in healthcare, the fact that women are told so often, 'This might hurt', the fact that their discomfort is tolerated and accepted as normal when it shouldn't be. That motion was passed by the Senedd. Could you reassure me, please, to make sure that, when this plan is implemented, that stubborn acceptance about women's pain is challenged? Because guidance is going to be of crucial importance, of course it is, but there's something that is now so intrinsic in so many women of different generations to expect not to get the help that they need that they then don't present with symptoms, because they're either worried about what it might be, or they're worried that they'll be dismissed. It's such a difficult thing to get right. Can we be reassured that, in learning from the wonderful clinicians, gynaecologists, nurses, midwives and women's voices themselves, we make sure that those changes about how women believe their own bodies, and how doctors and clinicians believe women about their bodies, that that actually happens?

Absolutely. Thank you so much for reiterating that so eloquently as well, Delyth Jewell. You always really sum up how so many women have felt. And it comes to the point that I wanted to make in having lots of discussions around this: it comes back to the education and the empowerment and the advocacy. We're not really taught how to talk about our bodies, we're not taught about the language, we're not taught about the pain, so then when you go to see a GP, for example—and it's embarrassing as well—how do you even have the language to be able to talk about it? That's where the education comes in here. That's where the empowerment comes in here, and being able to advocate for yourself. So, I want to assure you that that is really key.

One of the things that really started this off was the First Minister meeting with Gemma, who's from the British Heart Foundation, and talking about cardiovascular disease, talking about heart disease, talking about how, in those cases, women were not believed, how they weren't given pain medication, when men were given pain medication. They didn't realise they were having a heart attack, because it was the same as their period pain, so they thought it was normal. That has actually been the catalyst for a lot of why the First Minister started this.

And just to end as well by saying that this is not just for us women, it's for women in the NHS workforce. In 2022, it showed that 76 per cent of the NHS in Wales workforce is female. If you look at the age demographics, you'll find that most of them are probably going through the menopause, as Carolyn Harris always reminds me whenever she talks about the menopause. And it's 91 per cent women in nursing and midwifery. So, it's also about that there are women in the NHS, and, if I can make that one final point today, that is why we have a women's health plan that has been designed and is being delivered predominantly by women in the NHS, listening to so many stakeholders who have fed into this, because they work in it, they understand what the issues are, and they're going to be able to make that change.

So, I think this is my last question. I want to say thank you very much for giving us so much time, Llywydd.

No, it's not quite the last question.

No? I thought you'd saved Delyth until last.

There's somebody behind you who wants to ask the last question.

I'm sorry, Joyce. I'm sorry. I apologise.

I'm really pleased to see this plan. I was on the health committee pushing and pushing for us to look at women's health, and you joined me. The point I want to make here is it's great that we've got money, that we've got dedication and that we've got support, because we're not going to deliver any of it, actually, but I think that part of the support that's needed is the joined-up multidisciplinary thinking around women's healthcare. As an example, with endometriosis, it can be masked by lots of other symptoms, because it'll thread its way into the bowels, it will go towards the kidneys and the bladder, and unless all of those symptoms are put together, because women are told that periods are painful anyway—or they have been—it can go and become a really life-threatening condition, and it already is by the time it's got that far. So, my question here is, when we're building these women's health hubs, that we work together, beyond what is normally prescribed as a women's health problem—and I know you're at pains for that not to happen—to educate those practitioners who need it, but the patients also, so that they recognise. And I'm just focusing on the one. And, of course, many women, as a consequence, suffer incontinence, and, thereby, isolation and mental health. So, it's about joining all of those things together, which I know you are, but more widely, so that everybody understands. Thank you.

Thank you so much, Joyce Watson. Again, another woman who’s played a huge part in this, because it was Joyce on the Health and Social Care Committee who was really making the case that we did the report and the investigation into gynaecological cancers, which again has played a huge part in us all being here today and the women’s health plan being here today.

I just wanted to assure you that the short-term actions in the plan for endometriosis are to develop and raise awareness of the Endometriosis Cymru website that we currently have to support patients and the public; to provide the education and training to all healthcare practitioners on endometriosis as a chronic condition, a painful chronic condition; to ensure patients receive multiprofessional care, including access to adequate mental health support; and also to agree a robust monitoring framework, including key performance indicators and outcomes from national pathways. That is what has come through, that is what has been committed to, and that is what we are going to see. Diolch.

Diolch yn fawr iawn, Llywydd. One of my key priorities for the remainder of this Senedd term is our forthcoming bus Bill, which will fundamentally change the way bus services are delivered here in Wales. I'm grateful for the opportunity to update you on the progress made ahead of the introduction of this legislation, which will continue the process of significant reform of the bus network in Wales.

I think it’s important to remember why we are making these changes. First and foremost, buses are a vital public service, carrying three quarters of all public transport journeys. They are a lifeline for some of the most vulnerable and isolated people in our society. Just under 20 per cent of households do not have a car. People need buses to get them to their places of work, to visit friends and family and to access services. However, the existing system is not effective or efficient.

The bus network has been contracting for many years, which started long before the pandemic, but, as a consequence, has got much worse. It is, of course, reassuring that we’re seeing passenger numbers recover, but they still remain below pre-pandemic levels. The consensus is that change is needed. The current deregulated system is not working. We believe that bus franchising is the best approach for Wales, because it allows us to design a bus network that puts people first.

In 2022, we set out our plans to legislate for bus reform in a White Paper. Then, earlier this year, we published our road map to franchising, which clarified our next steps on bus reform. Since then, work has substantially progressed, and I am pleased to update you today.

Our legislation will require Welsh Ministers to secure and ensure the delivery of local bus services through a franchise model. This will mean decisions about bus services in Wales, including on routes, timetables and fares, will be made by Welsh Government, Transport for Wales and local authorities, working on regional footprints. Franchising will allow us to create a network that better serves the public, connecting with the rail network and allowing more integrated ticketing. We’ll seek to lift restrictions on existing publicly owned bus companies, so that they are on an equal footing to other bus operators, and the Bill will allow new publicly owned bus companies to be established by local authorities, should they wish to do so.

Improving routes, accessibility and timetables is key, but I also want people to see improvements to the quality and environmental sustainability of the buses that they’re travelling on. Wales has the oldest bus fleet in the UK under a deregulated and largely privatised network, so we need to remedy this as soon as we can. However, we've shown, through the purchase of £800 million of new trains, how transformative Welsh Government and Transport for Wales can be for public transport. We inherited one of the oldest fleets of trains in Britain, and soon we will have one of the newest. We have the same ambition for our bus fleet.

That's why we've already begun to upgrade the bus fleet, moving to greener vehicles. It will take time, but lower and zero-emission vehicles are key to our climate change objectives. We also plan to purchase strategic bus depots in key areas of Wales. Depot charging and refuelling infrastructure will be required to support franchising operations and the transition to a decarbonised fleet. We'll take a case-by-case approach to determine where public ownership of depots would deliver the very best value, and we do recognise that the majority of depots will likely remain in private ownership.

Bus franchising will represent a huge change that is complex and has multiple interconnected elements. It cannot be done across the whole of Wales at once. Following significant work in collaboration with Transport for Wales, corporate joint committees, local authorities and industry representatives, we've concluded that the roll-out will take place based on CJC regions. This will make the transition to a franchised model far more straightforward, benefiting from existing structures and, of course, aligning with our approach to regional transport plans.

We intend to begin the roll-out in south-west Wales in 2027, before north Wales in 2028, south-east Wales in 2029 and mid Wales in 2030. Transport for Wales are working very closely with all of the regions on what a good network will look like in their areas. Local knowledge and expertise is key to producing bus networks that work for communities, which is why we're developing our plans in consultation with local authorities and corporate joint committees.

Wales has a mix of bus operators, which I want to see continue. I know that some operators are nervous of what franchising will mean for them, but I am clear that we will build a network that is delivered by a range of operators, including SMEs, national providers, publicly owned bus companies and community transport organisations. This means we'll offer various types of franchising contracts, some that are attractive to smaller operators and others that will be more attractive to larger ones. I want a network to reflect our diverse bus sector and minimise the administrative burden that may put some off from bidding. I have instructed Transport for Wales to develop an approach that attracts a range of operators that can deliver high-quality services and, of course, social value.

There are very strong synergies between the UK Government’s bus reform in England and our reform programme. We have been working very closely with our colleagues in the Department for Transport. And whilst the UK Bill will give the tools to English authorities to take control of services, our Bill will ensure that Welsh Ministers use the tools and deliver a fully franchised network. Our plans share common objectives with the UK Government, and both Governments agree that there are opportunities for shared learning and joint working.

We're also working with neighbouring authorities, including the Liverpool city region, the Manchester city region and Dee area councils to ensure we share best practice, innovation and route planning. Indeed, the Minister for Culture, Skills and Social Partnership met recently with Andy Burnham, metro mayor for greater Manchester, to discuss joint working on public transport matters.

Franchising will make better use of the significant funding the Welsh Government already injects into local bus services, allowing us to design a network that works for people and communities. Bus reform will take time, but it will make a significant difference to people across Wales, particularly those who are struggling with the cost of living, are isolated, or are older or face disabling barriers in their daily life. Alleviating transport poverty is key to creating a fairer and more equal Wales. I look forward to introducing our legislation and working with the Senedd to deliver the transformation the bus industry desperately needs.

Can I thank the Cabinet Secretary for this afternoon's statement on bus reform? To be clear from the outset, my Welsh Conservative colleagues and I are, indeed, against bus franchising, because it removes business competition without driving up performance, as we have seen with the nationalised Transport for Wales. In my view, Transport for Wales can barely get to grips with running an effective rail network, so I do have serious doubts about its ability to take on our buses as well.

Cabinet Secretary, the main area of concern I have on these plans is the cost involved. Does the Welsh Government have an estimated total bill of implementing franchising yet? And Cabinet Secretary, are you confident that the Welsh Government has enough money set aside to fully deliver this ambition? A recent article suggested that the expected total for delivering gross cost franchising in Manchester could be in excess of £700 million, in an area much geographically smaller than Wales. Cabinet Secretary, are you also confident that this is truly offering value for money for Welsh residents, especially at a time when our education system and health sector in particular could indeed do with some very big cash injections? So, I would welcome more information and clarity on the price tags involved for implementing this Wales wide.

Also, I'd like to know how the Welsh Government plans to ensure that the franchise contracts available to operators are genuinely attractive and offer an attractive level of return compared to other comparably better funded parts of the UK, who will be tendering at the same time. I fully support the desire to see a fully functioning, integrated, high-quality and reliable public transport network, but I'm yet to be convinced that franchising alone will solve the industry's challenges.

Compared to alternatives, gross cost franchising, which I understand is being explored by the Welsh Government, has some risks that are particularly challenging, especially when it comes to risks to the public purse, to operators and also to passengers. It is feared that this route could have serious risks attached to it and result in less effective bus networking, which is something I'm sure the Welsh Government does not indeed want to see.

The Confederation of Passenger Transport, a fantastic organisation I'm pleased to work closely with, has drawn up an alternative franchising system that they believe would work in a Welsh context, called ‘the Welsh way’. They have looked at a successful minimum subsidy franchising system in Jersey and have tailored it to suit Wales. Since the minimum subsidy franchising was introduced in Jersey, they've seen a 38 per cent increase in passenger numbers and increased customer satisfaction. Jersey has indeed used the expertise and local knowledge of its operators to improve the system under minimum subsidy and there is genuine partnership working. It is believed that this approach could tackle a series of issues that other franchising models don't, especially when it comes to affordability and deliverability. Cabinet Secretary, have you also looked into Jersey, which originally looked at gross cost franchising before switching to minimum subsidy for inspiration? Have you had any discussions with those behind Jersey's scheme? If so, what were your takeaway points, and if not, can you please explain why not? If somewhere else is excelling in this particular area, I would have thought learning from them would be a very sensible thing to do.

Cabinet Secretary, as I told the First Minister recently, our bus industry needs support in the interim and a 15 per cent uplift in funding, which equates to around about £18 million, which would deliver a further 82 per cent of economic benefits across Wales each year, whilst ensuring that the current network remains sustainable and provides opportunities to grow patronage and improve services. In today's draft budget, it was announced that transport would see an increase of £120.7 million, yet just £9 million on resource funding being allocated to buses. So, how does the Welsh Government plan to address the further contractions that are likely in the bus network, ahead of franchising, as a result of today's decision not to increase funding in line with the 15 per cent that the bus industry says that it actually requires?

Bus journeys have indeed increased by 50 per cent over the last 50 years on busy urban routes. Research has shown that if bus passengers had been protected from increased congestion, there would be between 48 per cent and 70 per cent more fare-paying bus passenger journeys today. So, I'd like to know, does the Welsh Government recognise the importance of tackling congestion and investing in bus priority infrastructure alongside their plans to franchise the network? Whether I agree with it or not, a franchised network will seem a distant prospect for areas of Wales that may not see franchised contracts delivered until the late 2020s. So, it's really imperative that we see a lot more action taken by the Welsh Government to improve the bus network, and I'd appreciate it if the Cabinet Secretary could shed some more light on what steps can be taken to achieve that.

I appreciate I've raised a lot of points in here today, Cabinet Secretary, so I won't be bombarding you with any more at this moment in time. Thank you very much, Deputy Presiding Officer.

Can I thank Natasha Asghar for her valuable contribution. Let me respond to the points in turn. First of all, with regard to Transport for Wales as an example of what we can do with public ownership, there are four operators in and out of Wales on our rail lines. Transport for Wales is consistently now the most reliable and the most punctual of the four. The other three are in private ownership.

Secondly, we need to ask the question: why are we having to franchise? We're having to franchise because the system that was introduced in the mid 1980s has failed. It is clear to everybody. When we published the White Paper, we had a consultation. Ninety-six per cent of respondents said that change had to happen, and more than three quarters of respondents support our franchising model.

I'm very pleased to be able to say that we have looked at Jersey. We've spoken with the operator over in Jersey, but Jersey is very different. Jersey, I think, has 20 buses. Wales has 1,600. It is a very different model. We believe that franchising is the correct model for the people and communities of Wales, but we are determined to make sure that we make best use of existing operators—small, large and medium-sized—because many of them are deeply rooted in our communities and contribute very heavily to our employment base. So, we are working very closely with them as part of the bus reform panel to ensure that franchising works for all.

In terms of cost, I think I should state that since the start of the pandemic we as a Welsh Government have injected £250 million into supporting bus services—a £0.25 billion. Of course, one of the great advantages of franchising services is that we're going to be able to deal with the duplication of services, not just bus services duplicating other services with buses, but also with our rail network. So, we'll be able to achieve greater efficiencies in that regard.

In terms of the budget for next year, it's not just that we are going to be providing £9 million more in resource, we are also going to be providing £31 million in capital. Why is this? It's because Wales has one of the oldest fleets of buses anywhere in Europe. It's the oldest in Britain. And just as we are transforming the rail network through Transport for Wales with £800 million of new trains, we are applying the same ambition to our bus network: modernising it whilst also ensuring that we take back control of the network.

As I've mentioned before, Cabinet Secretary, Plaid Cymru welcomes bus reform and efforts to bring buses closer to public ownership. This is definitely a step in the right direction, but I have lots of questions, as you'd expect, to make sure that this franchise model actually works for Wales. So, on that note, could you provide an update on the legislative timetable for bus reform? 

We hope that these reforms will lead to significant improvements in service provision and regularity, not just for those who have seen their services cut, but also those communities that have never had access to reliable bus services in the first place. However, to make bus franchising a real success, we must ensure that it is adequately funded, and I'd like to focus most of my contribution on the critical issue of funding. 

Does the Cabinet Secretary have an estimate of how much the vision of bus franchising is likely to cost? And does he anticipate that the annual upkeep of franchised services will require more or less funding than the Welsh Government is currently spending on buses? Does this projection assume maintained current service provision and fare levels? I ask these questions because I want to see significant investment in the bus network. Is the increase that we've seen in the bus funding from today's budget statement enough?  

Effective bus reform has the potential to deliver transformative benefits. It could help to reduce emissions and private car use, revitalise town centres and high streets, thus creating an integrated transport network. By connecting our communities, we can reduce social isolation, drive economic development and even improve school transport provision. These are goals that I believe we both share, Cabinet Secretary, but I am deeply concerned that the current state of bus funding is falling far short of what is required to achieve these aims. 

Last year, the decision to end the bus emergency scheme exacerbated challenges already facing operators, ultimately leading to the significant decline in bus services. Around 10 per cent of routes were reduced or withdrawn over the last summer, and the Confederation of Passenger Transport estimated that an additional 15 to 25 per cent of routes were at risk this year. Does the Cabinet Secretary have the latest figure of how many bus routes were reduced or withdrawn in 2024?

I believe part of the crisis stems from the discrepancy in how this Government has allocated funding between buses and rail. This year, millions of pounds have been poured into Transport for Wales rail services whilst buses, the dominant mode of public transport in Wales, have been left with insufficient funding. We continue to see this discrepancy in today's budget statement, so how will you address this imbalance?

Finally, I want to touch on the issue of fares. Recently, we heard that Keir Starmer intends to increase the bus fare cap in England from £2 to £3 in 2025. Meanwhile, here in Wales, there have been repeated promises and calls for a bus fare cap and simpler, fairer bus fares. Your predecessor committed to introducing a £1 bus fare cap in Wales. During his leadership campaign, the previous First Minister pledged to explore fare reduction schemes. Similarly, the current Cabinet Secretary for health promised simpler, fairer bus fares in his leadership manifesto. Even Cardiff Council made a commitment to deliver a £1 bus fare cap if re-elected. Yet, despite these promises, we have yet to see a fare cap or fare reduction materialise.

Even if bus reform successfully increases service provision, it must be affordable. Bus fares cannot continue to rise beyond the means of people in Wales. Wales remains the only part of Great Britain that hasn't invested in a national scheme to reduce fares in recent years. Can we ever expect to see a fare cap or a reduction in fares under Labour in Wales, or is this going to end up as another broken promise? Diolch yn fawr.

Can I thank Peredur for his contribution and his questions today? Bus deregulation has resulted in an incredibly complicated fare system in Wales. So, through franchising, we are going to be able to deliver on our ambition of creating one network, one timetable and one ticket with rail operations. We'll also be able to implement a far more transparent, simplified and fairer fare regime right across the bus and rail network. There are huge ambitions in terms of what we wish to do; our ambitions are only curtailed by the availability of finance. But of course, with a new UK Labour Government, as we have seen today, opening opportunities for greater investment, it allows us to deliver on our ambitions, and will do in the future.

In terms of the emergency bus funding that was made available during the COVID pandemic, of course, we created the bus network grant and allocated to it £39 million. That £39 million annually has retained the vast majority of the bus network right across Wales, and we're very proud that we've been able to do that during a period of economic turmoil at a UK Government level.

In terms of the imbalance in funding for rail and bus services, this is very difficult, because one week we'll hear from Members of the Senedd arguing for balance over funding of services, but then, the next week, we'll hear that they wish to see very substantially subsidised services, such as those on the Heart of Wales line, maintained. If we were to have a balance of funding across rail and bus services, I am afraid it would result in severe cuts to the rail network, and that is not something I think any Member in the Chamber wishes to see.

What I would say about the cost of franchising is that there will be a detailed regulatory impact assessment published when we introduce the Bill. But through the measures that I've outlined, the cost of franchising can see significant gains in terms of value for money, because we'll be better able to integrate, for example, on learner travel, travel-to-school transport with regular passenger transport. And this, again, is about eliminating duplication and making best use of the bus network and the bus fleet. At the moment, the cost of learner travel to local authorities in Wales is extraordinary—it's up towards £200 million a year. So, there are cost savings in that regard that can be achieved through having control over the network and over timetables.

And then, finally, in terms of the timetable itself for the introduction of the Bill, I'll be introducing the Bill in March, and, subject to the Senedd's approval, I hope that we will gain Royal Assent in January of 2026.

Thanks for the update today on bus reform. I have to say, the Bill itself can't come soon enough, so that buses can better serve our communities. But I very much believe that that needs to be done in a way that fully involves stakeholders—as you've set out today, Cabinet Secretary—whether that's local authorities, the communities we're seeking to serve, but, crucially, the workforce too, through their trade unions. I firmly believe that the people that provide our services are best placed to input on how they can improve. This is something I discussed too at my recent public transport forum in Flint, and whether that's the way they can help from an operational perspective, but also more broadly in the way this Bill, this legislation, is developed. So, Cabinet Secretary, can I ask you if you can set out how the workforce, through their trade unions, such as Unite, can be involved with not just the development of shaping the legislation, but importantly, the implementation, to make sure it is as effective as it can be? How have they been involved to date in developing where we are at this point?

Can I thank Hannah for her questions? There are a number of means by which we are ensuring that thorough engagement happens and that stakeholders—I don't necessarily like the term 'stakeholders'; 'partners', I prefer—are fully involved in planning the future of our bus services across Wales. In regard specifically to trades unions, of course we work in social partnership, and I'm delighted that trade unions are part of the bus reform panel that is looking at the franchising system that we're going to be presenting to the Senedd, and then that panel will also look at how we roll out transformation across the network. So, the trade unions will be at the very heart of all considerations that we take forward.

Bus users are very used to waiting, and waiting for bus reform has certainly tested their patience, but I certainly hope the journey will be relatively straightforward and the destination worth it. Because I've had so many constituents come to me with their views on local services, outlining both the importance of buses for their day-to-day lives and the problems that sometimes arise. I'm really pleased that parts of my region will be among the first to roll out franchising arrangements, as many communities in my region don't have access to train services and, therefore, good bus services are absolutely essential.

What I'm keen to get greater clarity on, however, is the way in which bus users themselves will be able to have their input into the franchising arrangements. They often tell me, 'Politicians generally don't use buses. If they did, we would see greater progress on this', and I have to say I agree with them. In health, social care and education, we frequently talk about a person-centred approach, building the service around the needs of the user. You talk about engagement with local councillors and the CJCs—well, they're leaders of local councils, aren't they? Generally, they're probably not using buses either. So, I'd like to know what methods will be employed to ensure bus users, those people you talked about at the beginning of your statement, those people who don't have access to cars who are often very vulnerable and completely reliant on bus services, will have a voice alongside local authorities and operators and others to shape their local network and build this service that is heading in the right direction. 

Can I think Sioned for her questions? She's absolutely right that some of the most disadvantaged people in Wales are the most reliant on our bus services, and they will be at the heart of designing the network and completing the timetables in the years to come. It will be through Transport for Wales being directed to engage with communities, with local authorities and with passenger organisations. We also have within Transport for Wales, already embedded in it, an access and inclusion group that represents people who face disabling challenges day in, day out. I met with the panel last week, and I am determined that their fingerprints are all over the new bus networks that will emerge as a result of being able to franchise.

I would counter the Member in saying that politicians don't like to use buses; I love using buses. I always have done since being a child, when we relied on them every single day of our lives. Indeed, I build them out of Lego. I absolutely value bus services, the bus network right across Wales. We are determined to take it from a position that is quite precarious, I accept, to a position of strength, to ensure that the people of Wales are proud of our bus network, of what we can offer, see improvements in terms of punctuality, in terms of the age of the fleet, in terms of the reach of the network, in terms of the regularity of bus services.

I'd just say I am aware that there has been a delay in progressing this piece of legislation. One of the upsides of that is that it's given me an opportunity to finish what I started. But it has also enabled us to ensure that the legislation is in the strongest possible position as we present it to the Senedd, and that we are able to learn from other parts of not just the UK, but Europe as a whole.

Thank you so much for this statement. It's really important that we move forward in the franchising of buses. For me, that will lead to a much more equal access for people across Wales. Just two things really quickly, focusing firstly on rural communities, as you'd expect. I just want to take an example. Trecastell, a community between Llandovery and Brecon, has no public transport whatsoever. The number 80 bus service was cut in 2015, and now residents have to travel 10 miles to access basic services, some of them walking the three miles to Sennybridge. Mid Wales is actually the last region in your outline to implement franchising reforms, in 2030, so I am concerned about rural bus services.

The second is in regard to young people using buses. We've always talked about how, if you can get young people when they're young, then they'll continue to use buses or anything else beyond into adulthood. A survey by the Welsh Youth Parliament, we know, has said that 75 per cent of young people would use public transport if it were free or at a low cost. So, could you tell us what consideration you're giving to really allowing young people to access buses, which we hope will then give them the habit to continue for the rest of their lives? Diolch yn fawr iawn.

Absolutely. Can I thank Jane Dodds for her contribution? I agree entirely that rural parts of Wales often suffer from poor network connectivity. A huge proportion of people in Wales live in rural areas. With franchising, it will be possible to cross-subsidise those more profitable services that operate in more urban areas and the rural network, which requires a heavier subsidy. That's one of the beauties of being able to franchise on a national basis: that we'll be able to support all parts of Wales, whether they are rural or urban.

In regard to the role that young people will have in terms of the future of bus services, we are in the process of putting together a young people's panel that will be able to advise us, not just in terms of regular day-to-day transport, but also in terms of bus infrastructure, what they feel is safer, what is required in terms of bus stops, what is required in terms of the future of learner travel as well. So, I'm very pleased that we're going to be able to listen directly to young people as we shape policy moving forward. And I'd also say, if I may, that in regard to rural services, the Fflecsi service has been particularly important, and we'll be franchising this as we look to grow that service and ensure that more communities in rural Wales are better connected.

I rather agree with Sioned Williams that people have had to wait and awful long time for this. Unfortunately, it has had really serious impacts on people's ability to get around, even in urban places like the constituency I represent in Cardiff. It seems to me that, for good economic reasons, we need to do this, because it's essential to take back control in order to improve the bang that the public purse gets from its bucks. There's no logic in allowing bus operators to simply have a tranche of money and then cherry-pick the routes where they think they can make most money. We have to ensure that it's maximising the social purpose of buses, which are, as everybody has said, the most fundamental service that people without cars rely on.

I have two or three questions. Newport and Cardiff have already successfully levered in decarbonisation funds from the UK Government to deliver many cleaner buses, which has been very welcome. What conversations have you had with other local authorities to decarbonise their bus fleets using the money that the UK Government has on offer?

I want to understand why the roll-out is going to be delayed in south-east Wales until 2029. That is just some distance away. Because people are suffering at the moment, particularly secondary school students, who are having to shell out huge sums of money, even when they are on free school meals, in order to get to school. It's not realistic to think the child's going to walk nearly 3 miles to get there and nearly 3 miles to come back.

Thank you, Jenny. 

So, how will you integrate—

Jenny, you've used your time.

—secondary school transport—

Jenny, you've used your time.

—into the franchise system?

Can I thank Jenny Rathbone for her questions? I'd first of all like to say that, to date, we’ve had no control over the very significant public subsidy that goes into bus services. With franchising, we will have full control. But I’m not going to criticise those bus operators the length and breadth of Wales—the bus operators that have 1,600 buses serving our communities—because, yes, profit may be earned on certain routes, but in so many cases they are the lifeblood of many communities, particularly in rural Wales. And, of course, the two municipal companies, Cardiff Bus and Newport Bus, have been vitally important, providing excellent services for the two cities in south-east Wales. What we are looking to do through franchising is having greater control over the network, over timetabling, over fares, so that we can ensure that passenger interest is a priority in any consideration of bus policy moving forward.

In terms of decarbonisation, of course, there are only two municipal bus companies. In both cases, electric buses are now in operation, in Newport and in Cardiff. But, of course, electric buses are also in operation on the Welsh Government-owned TrawsCymru network. And I said earlier, in response to other questions, that we’ve allocated £31 million next year—£31 million—towards decarbonisation of the bus fleet, in our ambition to take it from being the oldest fleet of buses in Britain to one of the newest in Europe. And I think there is risk of conflating learner travel with franchise services. But learner travel will benefit from franchised services, because we’ll be able to better integrate regular scheduled services with routes that take learners to and from school.

There is massive social purpose—I would agree entirely with Jenny Rathbone—in supporting a franchise model. But there are many small and medium-sized enterprises in the private sector who also offer great social purpose, who go above and beyond to connect communities. And we’re looking to make sure that, through the standards that we set as part of the franchising process, we can ensure the highest quality of employment rights and the greatest degree of social purpose in what bus operators offer.

Well, can I thank Siân Gwenllian, and assure her that much of the reason for franchising services is because of a lack of provision in rural Wales, because rural services are simply not profitable, and therefore, under the system that we operate at the moment, commercial operators see no value in running services? And as a consequence of that, local authorities have to subsidise them. But in a time of financial pain, subsidising, to the degree that we would wish to do under the current model, is simply impossible. And so franchising is by far the most desirable option, in my view, for rural communities.

A third of people in Wales live in rural Wales. And we do have great examples, I believe, of interventions in rural Wales that have proven to be incredibly successful, with the Fflecsi system, with the TrawsCymru network. And so, actually, franchising is going to be incredibly beneficial to rural Wales, arguably more beneficial to rural parts of Wales than it is to urban parts of Wales where there are commercial interests in running bus services. 

I should just mention, though, as well with regard to cross-border services that the reason that we've been focusing some of our attention on cross-border services is because what we don't want to do is to cut off people from jobs and services where there is a border to contend with, and that's why we're looking at permits, so that operators can come into Wales, provided they integrate with our network. So, it'll ensure that there is then a seamless network within Wales and on a cross-border basis. But I can assure the Member today that our focus has been incredibly, incredibly well maintained, I believe, on the needs of rural Wales. 

Well, can I thank Rhys ab Owen for his questions? They're very timely, given that I attended the access and inclusion panel at TfW last week, which comprises the fabulous people representing those in society who face the most severe disabling barriers. We are very, very, very conscious of the need to not just modernise the fleet but to ensure that, when we modernise the fleet and decarbonise it, we make greater provision for people particularly who wheel—who have wheelchairs, who have prams. Some buses, as the Member has just outlined, simply are not fit for purpose in the modern age, and so we will be looking at the most inclusive and accessible vehicles that we possibly can. 

Now, in terms of learner travel, I've committed to a debate in Government time—I believe that it's in early February that it's being scheduled—and we are also arranging a summit in regard to learning best practice, sharing best practice and exploring solutions for what is a very, very complicated matter. 

Thank you. Yesterday, at the cross-party group on public transport, we heard that cost and convenience are the most important issues for passengers. We heard useful information from operators and drivers, who have asked to be involved in consultations when local authorities are developing bus priority schemes, looking at new housing developments and creating active travel routes. Putting in cycle lanes that interfere with bus lanes—there's only so much room on a road. Parking is also an issue, impacting on compliance with timetables in town centres, which very often ends up with buses stopping going through there. So, I'm asking: is there something that we can do there? And they asked if MSs would get in touch with operators to have a go on a bus and to see what the issues are. So, I would like to put that out there as well. They said that they would like to have a pilot to get young people on buses; that would be really, really good. A pilot, if you could do that, or a trial, and a fare scheme would be really good. 

My question to you is: if bus timetables or routes are being looked at at CJC level, they're really intricate, bus services—. I know, in Flintshire, there were 450 different services, and 350 were school services. It's really intricate, very hard to balance, and if a child's left at a stop, it's terrible—the impact of it. So, if these routes are being delivered at CJC level with Transport for Wales, how can we make sure that that intricacy is not left behind so that we catch everybody? I hope I've explained that properly.

You most certainly did.

Thank you.

And I'd like to thank you for the points you raised, because, actually, having that local and hyperlocal intelligence is going to be vitally important in shaping the network once we're able to franchise. And I know of some outstanding local authority officials who know the bus system inside out, who know their communities inside out. And if I can, I’ll describe the system that we’re going to adopt: as local authorities drive it, Transport for Wales deliver it. So, we’ll be contributing from the bottom up all the intelligence, information, passenger views, passenger voice, and then Transport for Wales and Welsh Ministers will be responsible for delivering on that. So, it’s very, very much a citizen-first, passenger-first approach that we’re going to be taking to franchising.

And I would encourage all Members to get on a bus. There are some fantastic services across Wales. My local service is what’s described as a Sapphire service—the bus has a panoramic roof, it’s got USB points, it’s got tables, it’s got leatherette seats. It’s a fantastic bus, and it operates very regularly indeed. But what you say, Carolyn, about costing convenience is absolutely right: making sure that we’ve got a very transparent, simplified fare system is going to be vitally important, and, alongside that, a reliable and regular service as part of a franchise network.

Last Friday the Met Office issued a rare red-level warning for wind and amber-level warning for rain for storm Darragh. I would like to sincerely thank people throughout Wales who heeded the very serious warning, as well as the emergency alert issued on Friday evening. These actions truly helped the emergency response. I'd also like to thank the emergency services and the first responders who worked tirelessly throughout the weekend in dreadful conditions to keep people safe. 

There remains a great deal of work to be done to support our communities and to recover from the impacts. I'd like to thank our local authorities, the emergency services, and other agencies for all the work they've already done, and the ongoing work, which will take place to help communities to recover. And I'd also like to recognise and thank all those in our communities who've helped each other over the weekend. It is at times like these that we often see the very best of people, even in the most difficult of circumstances. Volunteers play a vital part in supporting the most vulnerable in our communities in Wales, working in partnership with our emergency services. Third sector organisations strengthen our community resilience and they support people’s recovery long after the spotlight has moved on.

Where people can, I would encourage people in areas still affected to please continue to check in on vulnerable neighbours today and contact the police for non-emergency enquiries too by dialling 101. And while the weather has passed, people are continuing to live with the consequences. As Members will know, the most significant ongoing issue is power outages. Energy network operators are working very hard to recover power to those people and communities who remain without electricity at this stage. I know that they're drawing in extra resources as far as possible to make progress as quickly as possible and have recovered power now to over 0.5 million customers already. This has taken longer than we would all hope, which we understand is due to the extent of the damage and the difficult conditions over recent days. Most remaining customers without power are expected to be reconnected today and the remaining hard-to-reach communities by tomorrow.

The network companies have been working with local responders to establish catering support, warm spaces, and they continue to prioritise help for those most vulnerable. For anyone who may need this kind of support, I encourage them to contact the network operators, who can be contacted by dialling 105. 

Our focus has been, and will continue to be, on supporting the most vulnerable in our society who will feel those impacts most profoundly. The First Minister and I will continue to press the energy network companies to restore power supplies to everyone as quickly as possible and have been working with the UK Government and local responders to do all we can to ensure rapid progress. The Cabinet Secretary for Economy, Energy and Planning has met with National Grid today to discuss the latest situation across south and mid Wales and, I understand, will be meeting with Scottish Power next week for a full debrief on the response across north Wales.

The effect on our power networks has also had an impact on our water supply infrastructure. Power supplies to pumps across Wales were interrupted, leading to breaks in supply for many people. While the number of properties impacted is relatively low, the power outages causing the issues to water supply have been widespread. They’ve affected communities across the country. Our water companies have well-practised plans for interruptions such as these, and emergency response procedures were stood up across the industry in advance of the storm. This has meant that, in a lot of cases, they were thankfully able to maintain or quickly restore water supplies to affected customers despite enormous challenges, using emergency generators where the national grid supply could not be rapidly restored.

Of course, we recognise the toll these storms place on communities. So, our emergency financial assistance scheme, EFAS, which is a well-established mechanism, provides financial support to local authorities to help meet their costs in responding to larger scale emergencies. Money has been set aside this year, 2024-25, in the region of £10 million, which can be mobilised to meet the costs of storm Bert. We have continued support for those affected by storm Bert and storm Darragh, including grants of £500 to those whose homes were flooded or unusable as a result, and the Cabinet Secretary for Housing and Local Government has written to leaders, and local authorities have been asked to provide information on their costs. 

I just want to be clear about this today: what we’re witnessing is the impacts of climate change. We can expect more severe weather and the impacts to continue. Therefore, learning the lessons repeatedly from disruptive challenges is a fundamental component of our broader effort to strengthen Wales’s resilience. In this case, storm Darragh hit our shores less than a fortnight after storm Bert, so, understandably, the full debriefing process and learning lessons from storm Bert have not yet concluded. However, on 4 December, I chaired a meeting of emergency service and local authority leaders to gain an initial assessment of the effectiveness of the response to storm Bert. A key objective was to identify immediate lessons and requirements to support our communities and businesses as we transitioned from response to recovery. And there are indications, Llywydd, that our responder community was already drawing on their experiences from storm Bert in challenging and sometimes dangerous conditions last weekend.

Storm Darragh has unleashed unprecedented destruction across north Wales and, indeed, across the whole of Wales, leaving communities struggling to recover from its devastating impact. I would also like to place on record my thanks to the emergency services, local authority staff, NRW, all the agencies that came very quickly, risking their own lives during such terrible  storms. And I do apologise, Cabinet Secretary, for not thanking you for your statement. I did put in on Monday morning first thing an emergency question, but you bringing a statement is really helpful. Thank you.

The way that volunteers from our local communities came to help was just unbelievable. The storm's ferocious winds and relentless rain have caused widespread damage to historic landmarks, cherished green spaces and vital infrastructure. I only found out today that, over the rail network in Wales, at least 300 trees have fallen onto the lines across Wales, essentially stopping rail services. In some areas, residents are still waiting for power to be restored, highlighting the ongoing challenges in the storm's aftermath.

One of the most heart-wrenching casualties of storm Darragh is Llandudno's iconic, historical pier, the longest in Wales and the fifth longest in the UK. It was just heartbreaking. Where I live, I could actually see some of the damage, but then, when people went to video, it was just unbelievable. The ice-cream kiosk that was ripped from its foundations was 150 years old, and the debris from that—one of the massive ice-cream refrigerators—was found 2 km away on the beach. That's how ferocious the winds were.

I'm going to mention Penrhyn bay. The destruction there was very poignant. There is a memorial green, a site of deep personal and historical significance, that was devastated. This space, established over 40 years ago under the guidance of the late Councillor Jack Finch, my late father, is home to trees that were planted in memory of Lord Mountbatten, and, for many, including those who planted them, the damage feels deeply personal. I remember the time those trees went in, and I helped my father with the digging in of those trees. They've all gone now. It is a stark reminder of how storm Darragh has not only destroyed physical landmarks, but it's struck at the emotional and cultural heart of our towns.

Beyond these iconic sites, the storm has brought widespread challenges to communities. Small Business Saturday was very impacted, as many businesses were forced to close, some for several days or longer, adding to the storm's economic toll. The lack of power not only disrupts daily life, but also underscores the vulnerability of infrastructure, but also the vulnerability of those in rural and isolated places. I was upset about a pier, but they just feel so alone, so isolated and so desperately scared.

On the Welsh Government's response on this matter, it's good that you're coming forward with this, but I've got three asks of you. It's clear that there has been significant emphasis on planting trees, but over the last few years, we've seen these storms—we talk about a one-in-a-100-year storm, but we're having them so many times a year now. So, I know that, on this particular storm, my local authority have reported that over 100 trees have fallen. I suppose, really, what I want to ask—one or two questions—is will you conduct a survey to see how many trees we've lost as a result of these storms and how you intend to make sure that those trees are replaced. But I'll go on slightly from that.

Hopefully, there'll be some emergency fund—it's really resources I'm going to get down to now. Will there be emergency funding to local authorities who, themselves, are very stretched to capacity but had to use a lot of their own resources to go out and help in such dreadful storms with the clean-up operation? I suppose I'm going to be asking: is there a historical fund for buildings such as the pier, and funding for our local businesses, who've really suffered? And also, as regards the issue of the trees and the felling—the fallen 300 trees across the network—can you perhaps, working with NRW, conduct a survey into—? Is there a regular, in terms of the forestry side of NRW—? Some of those trees that came down may have needed felling beforehand and were dangerous. Quite often, I have to write to Network Rail and say, 'Look, I've got residents who fear these trees, if they fall, will fall onto the lines.' So, there are three asks, Cabinet Secretary—

You don't need to remind the Cabinet Secretary. I see he's writing them down. I have a lot of speakers who want to contribute, because it's very serious in their communities.

Okay. So, funding support for the businesses, historical landmarks, and also about the tree aspect because we can't afford to lose those trees. Thank you.

Yes. Thank you, Janet. First of all, just to say, thanks for your comments on the work of volunteers out there. And just to say, the Cabinet Secretary for Justice, Trefnydd and Chief Whip is also engaging with voluntary sector organisations and doing her own engagement with them to see the response there, and as you can see, this is something of a cross-Government effort here, in liaising, as well, and trying to pull together. And we will have lessons to learn, by the way, as we always do with these events, in order to get better every single time. But the community resilience point that you mentioned is significant within this. I saw the interview with that chap, I've been to that stall there—the chap who was saying he was devastated, you could see how tearful he was, but he said, 'We'll come back. We've been here long enough; we'll build back again'. And I think that's been the attitude of many in our communities, no matter how traumatic the events are.

So, in terms of your questions, trees, I think you were touching on first of all, and they do need to be part of the solution going forward. It's not just the ones that were taken down; it's where we actually plant in future on a catchment basis, so that we can slow down some of the—. In all the storms we've seen and the ones we'll see in the rest of the winter, we need to think now on a catchment basis about tree planting in the right places in order to help with this. On the ones that'll come down, we're not planning to do a massive survey, an intensive survey, on this. I think we will have feedback from local authorities and from people like the Woodland Trust and others, with their assessment of what the damage has been.

In terms of Network Rail, they carry out regular—regular—systematic surveys. As we all see sometimes, we have delays on the rail line because they are on the line, cutting down trees, and they say, 'Right, your services are slightly disrupted while we do it'. So, they're regularly doing this.

And, just in terms of local authority support, I mentioned in my opening remarks that we have in place the emergency financial assistance scheme. We put it in place already in terms of storm Bert. The qualifying expenditure, it's over a certain threshold, and my colleague sitting next to me has been exemplary in the way that he's reached out to local authorities and said, 'Give us the information of how this has impacted'. The same applies because this responds to, for example, works to safeguard dangerous structures, evacuating people from areas, rehousing them, maintaining clear communications, clearing roads, hire of additional vehicles, plant and machinery, removal of trees and timber dangerous to the public. So, those principles apply to these storms as they come through. So, I think some authorities will have been double hit, and other authorities will have been hit much more in storm Darragh than they were in storm Bert. And I'll just mention, we're talking a lot about electricity impact and water outage, but we shouldn't forget that, in Ceredigion, there were over 150 homes that were flooded, as well. So, somebody up there is telling us a strong message here at the moment.

Fifty two. 

Diolch yn fawr iawn, Cefin. And the thing that ties you and me together, and I suspect some others in here, is that we still have some communities who are not connected, some communities who don't have electricity and water, and this is in south Wales, as well as west Wales and parts of north Wales as well. Just to reflect on the sheer scale of this, just to know what hit us, and some of this has come from the briefing earlier on from my colleague, the Cabinet Secretary for Economy, Energy and Planning, Rebecca, two and a half times more capacity is now being put in by the electricity companies and the National Grid to respond to this than they normally have on the ground. Much of that is through mutual aid. The reason being that, at the height of this, we had 700,000 plus customers affected; 681,000 customers have now been restored, but there are still, as of my latest update, around 11,800 disconnected. Some of those—. To come to the point that you asked, about why were some told it was going to be by this day, and then it’s another 24 hours or whatever, what we understand, what we’re being told, is that was what they reliably thought they could do, but, when they went into it, there are high voltage lines that are down, and, as they’ve repaired them, other debris has come down and taken lines down again. But there are also low voltage connections out to remote areas as well, which they’re also having to work through. But we will reflect on that as well. How do you communicate delay, added-on delay? Because there’s an expectation. My own communities were saying, ‘We were told it was going to be two days ago, and we’re still without.’ And I’m saying, ‘Well, I can’t get a clear answer either', but they’re trying their darndest, but I think they’re hitting more frustrations there as well.

But just to say, the scale of what hit us, we’re being told—. We’ll have to do a proper mop-up of this to understand, but we’re being told by some of those grid operators out there that it was probably worse than the effects of storms that we’ve had previously that were significant, like Arwen and Eunice as well. It was way beyond that, and the way it hit that targeted area around the coast.

You mentioned the emergency alert. It’s a big decision to actually put that alert out, but, from what we did know from the Met Office forecast, the First Minister rightly took the decision to say, ‘We need to put that alert out’, and it went out at 6.45 p.m. in the evening, although some people had it at 7 p.m., and then 7.30 p.m. and 8 p.m. and 8.30 p.m. and 9 p.m.—it was going on. A few didn’t get it; we’ll have to look at that as well. But, actually, most people—a lot of people—did, and they took it very seriously and we thank them for that. We did not take that decision lightly, but it had an effect. And it did mean that, the following day, by that following morning, people had indeed cancelled events, shops had shut, Small Business Saturday—what a shame that was—and so on. And you’re right, we need to support those businesses now going forward, because it’s not for one day, as people have said before; we’ve got to be consistent on it.

How effective on sharing data on the vulnerable? Two aspects of that. I think that is a lesson to look at. We need to mop this—. They’re still out there trying to reconnect. I think we need to focus on that now, but, when we can, we should look at how effective was the data sharing and are there any barriers to data sharing, because there are issues around sharing information on vulnerable customers. But also one of the things that’s been raised with us is the electricity companies saying not everybody who thinks they are vulnerable had registered as a vulnerable customer, as a priority customer. So, maybe one of the lessons we learn is that we’ve all got a job to do in spreading the word, saying, ‘If you think you’re vulnerable, then sign on, because then we know where you are’, and so on.

I think I’ve probably covered most of the aspects there, except to echo what you said about all the people who contributed to the effort, including, by the way, farmers. I heard some amazing stories of what farmers were doing in clearing ditches, clearing debris et cetera and so on, and fair play. It’s part of the fabric of our rural communities.

Can I start too by thanking those emergency workers, emergency services, local authority workers and the many others who’ve gone above and beyond? In common with communities right across Wales, communities in my own consistency have been impacted. There are houses that have been without power for far too long in areas like Northop Hall, and homes in Mold that have once again been flooded. Indeed, Mold has seen flooding in the past and there are properties that have been flooded over the weekend that were actually last flooded as recently as last year, adding to understandable upset and devastation and growing frustration.

I’ll, clearly, be seeking to work with the local authority and other partners, not just to reflect on what’s happened but to collectively consider what more we need to do together to mitigate this in the future. But can I ask what further action can the Welsh Government take to both provide support for those affected, and also steps to prevent or, at the very least, mitigate this from being an ongoing occurrence for far too many people, and will you too at some point meet with me to discuss this further? Diolch.

Yes, I’d be very happy to meet with you, Hannah, as I would with all Members here, to reflect on what happened, because it’s been different in every community. There have been some common strands, but it has been different in every community. I’ve mentioned previously the support that Welsh Government has made available. Local authorities, by the way, have also themselves stepped up and have said, ‘We are going to put support in there as well for businesses and homes affected by flooding and beyond.’

But can I just flag a particular piece of support that’s being taken forward by my colleague Jack Sargeant, following discussions with the sports governing bodies, between Welsh Government, the WCVA, Sport Wales and others, allowing the opening now of a storm damage fund? We've seen some of the horrendous pictures of clubs that have been under water with this, and this is not going to be a one-off either. I understand now that not-for-profit community clubs and organisations, some of those grass-roots clubs that we know and love and attend—not the big highfalutin players on multi-million pound salaries, but the people who keep pitches going week in, week out at a local level—they can apply now for grants of up to £5,000 to help them recover. For some, it won't go the whole way, but it'll go a long way. It's a real contribution. So, keep an eye open for that. I understand my colleague has put something out there publicly, and the more we can share that to colleagues the better.

Cabinet Secretary, I want to associate myself with the comments made about our emergency services and the stellar work they did over the weekend to keep people safe, and also to those people working in Welsh Water and National Grid who've done their bit as well trying to restore services for people. Most of my friends, actually, work in National Grid, so it would be remiss if I didn't mention them. I know a lot of them were out on the Friday and the Saturday night, but got stood down because it was too dangerous for them to actually be out in the weather.

Cabinet Secretary, what I want to touch on, as you said in your statement, is that these weather events are becoming more and more frequent, and that means we need to make sure that our regulator, Natural Resources Wales, is operationally effective when it comes to dealing with these issues. The Cabinet Secretary for finance today allocated more money to your portfolio. Natural Resources Wales had a cut in the previous Welsh Government budget, so I’m interested to hear from you today how much extra money are you going to allocate to Natural Resources Wales, because, if we’re going to have more of these flooding events and storm events coming forward, we need to make sure that they’ve got all the tools at their disposal, and the finance available, so that they can step up to the plate when we need them to.

James, thank you very much for that, and, again, echoing your support for the work of all those who responded to these in the electricity utilities, but also in the water utilities as well, because one of the knock-on effects has been that we have had scores of water treatment works, and others, that have been out of action; emergency generators have been provided in that mutual aid support. There was already planning for this sort of eventuality, this did not catch us cold, but we still get impacted by it. And credit to them, because they were out there doing that in the height of what was going on. In my house, we had a window taken out with the strength of the storm. While I was trying to batten down my window, they were up pylons and out in fields trying to load up generators to keep water treatment works going. It’s quite incredible and quite heroic there.

NRW also played their part, I have to say. NRW have been through a series of storm incidents now, and they have been up to the mark. They’ve been out there with all the other agencies doing well. We’ve put money into NRW to help them do this as well. I can’t give the detail of how we will use the additional money that we’ve actually put forward today, but I will be appearing, as per norm, in front of committees to go through that sort of detail. But what I can say is, in terms of flood resilience, we’re already at a record level, and we’ve been doing that for a couple of years. We’ve put, specifically, money into NRW to help them with their own flood response ability as well, as well as the money that we’ve put into local authorities and others. So, we’re very focused on this, because we really know that this is going to be far from the last. We have to deal with these on a fairly regular basis now, and, in which case, there are community resilience levels, and then there are the big agencies and public authorities as well, making sure that they’ve got full capacity as well.

Diolch yn fawr iawn. Thank you for those questions and comments. First of all, we will do a proper lessons-learnt from this, as I mentioned before, as we will do with every major incident. And this was a major incident, as was the previous one, as we will see in future ones. And rather than rest on our laurels, we need to look at each one, which is going to be very different. This was very different from storm Bert, very different where it hit, how it hit and the repercussions of it, when you had electricity outages taking out water supplies, taking out treatment works and so on.

Just some specific things. In terms of the response to vulnerable customers that we know are vulnerable, that are registered or that are identifiable to the utility companies, when they knew we were going to stand up, they proactively then engage with those individuals who are medically dependent on electricity ahead of the weather, to inform them of the support that's available to them. And that can include, as you say, generators in specific use cases where that's needed, including in things like palliative care situations as well. But it could also include hot food and accommodation and so on, or the provision of additional support with the generator, things like microwaving facilities and the ability to charge your devices. That's the communication point that several people have made, because people will need to be able to get messages out. Similarly, people who need to get in contact with them because they're vulnerable will want to know, ‘Are you okay?’ and so on. And additional support then in terms of battery generators and so on.

The stretch on generators, though, is significant, because there were also generators being deployed to water treatment works, to community centres, as well as to vulnerable customers. But we will learn the lessons, we will look to reflect on the lessons. I think a lot worked really, really well, and it might have been slightly different in different areas as well. But I think what we learnt from the previous rapid mop-up was there were already things where we could say, 'Well, here's best practice, here's where we need to tighten it a little bit.' And we’ll need to do that. Co-ordination and communication is a piece of that. That issue of how everybody's working together on the ground when everybody's stood up, but are they sharing what everybody's doing in a rapid response situation like this? Because it hit us fast and very hard.

Key to that, of course, is support to local authorities as well, as you mentioned. And yes, as I mentioned in response to previous answers, we have a well-worn, well-used system of the emergency financial assistance scheme, where local authorities need to let us know what the impacts have been in their area—storm Bert before, storm Darragh now—and then we can go to the EFAS system and say, 'Can we assist you now in this situation?' There's a threshold level, but it's for these major events there.

And the domestic violence one, this is something that was gone through when the original red alert system was brought in, but we will, of course—again, as part of the lessons learnt through this—look at how that impacted, were there any unintended consequences, not only in domestic violence situations, but others as well with vulnerable individuals. But what I would say about the alert system is it was a big decision to stand that up. I think it was the right decision, linked to the Met Office advice that was coming in, and by and large it was very, very effective and I repeat my thanks. We need people to take these messages really seriously when we do them. Even though I was out in Cardiff at the time when I heard these coming through, and it wouldn't stop, people were saying 'What the heck is this about?', then they read it and then they went, 'Oh, we'd better get home', and they did. And I think that was the effect that we needed to have with it because it undoubtedly, I would suggest, prevented loss of life.

I know that the issue of power outages has been raised by many Members already this afternoon, but I also want to put on record that there are still communities in Pembrokeshire that continue to have no power whatsoever, and, like Cefin Campbell, my property is also one of them. Now, as you would expect, my office and I have been liaising with the National Grid and the relevant authorities in Pembrokeshire, but as I'm sure you can imagine, the lack of power for several days now has had a huge impact on some of my constituents, particularly those who are vulnerable and live in more rural areas. I'm sure you'll agree with me that these households that have been without power for three days need to be reconnected as soon as possible. I appreciate that there is work going on to restore power and I know that emergency services, alongside volunteers and third sector organisations, are working very, very hard in very difficult circumstances. But can you tell us what additional support will the communities I represent in Pembrokeshire receive or expect to receive, given that this situation is now still ongoing?

Yes. Paul, I think it's worth repeating here, actually, in response to that question: if the local authorities can make clear, when they've done their proper assessment, the scale of the impact that's been in their area, then we have the financial mechanisms in place to respond to emergency situations like this, where we can assess if there's additional support that needs to come through to them. And that applies to Pembrokeshire as it does to—. Interestingly, even though some of the very high-profile impacts were in flooding and electricity outages in rural Wales, curiously, it was also rural communities in south Wales as well that were affected. The biggest impact, I think, and the most number of people who are still disconnected are now in the south Wales area, as opposed to mid Wales, but we need to get these people back. 

The latest we have, Paul, is that people will be connected, many of them now by the end of today, and then hopefully everybody, we hope, by the end of tomorrow. But can we say that with an absolute guarantee? I mentioned earlier that what they're finding is that when they get to the nth degree with some of these communities, they're also having additional debris to clear or another line gets taken down as they're doing it. But that's the intention of the electricity providers, to get everybody back on by tomorrow evening finally, and it's been a long time, it has, but they're working hard.

I think the events of the last few weeks have shown us that we are not as prepared or as well equipped to deal with these storms as we thought we might be a few short months ago. The damage, devastation and disruption caused by storm Darragh, and storm Bert before it, has been heartbreaking to see. It's clear that our transport network, our culverts and drainage systems are not robust enough to deal with the heavy and sustained rainfall that is becoming more and more a feature of our climate, and I think the lessons need to be learnt very quickly, as you've suggested. 

Three sinkholes that I know of opened up in my region alone. The one in Merthyr is well known, but there is also one in Cwmtillery that opened up on that fateful night when the coal slip slid into the nearby homes of unsuspecting residents. There's also one in the Islwyn part of my region that has opened up in the back garden of a pensioner, and that was exacerbated too by the storm over the weekend. I'm liaising with Caerphilly County Borough Council to get this matter sorted as soon as possible, in order to bring much-needed relief to the home owner.

A question that's been raised with me as part of dealing with that is: if the culvert is owned by the county borough council but affects a private residence, who is responsible for fixing it? Now, I think part of the answer will probably be legal, but the other part is, 'Who will be doing the right thing?' So, if you're able to point me in the right direction of who would be able to answer that question, or if you're able to give me some information on that, then that would be useful. Thank you.

Peredur, thank you very much. You're drawing me into a specific example of which I don't know the specifics, so I'm loath to be drawn in there. Generally speaking, you will often find that there is a landowner, a proprietary owner responsibility in this if pipework is passing under their property, but I cannot say that definitively in the one that you mentioned because I don't know anything about it. I would engage with the local authority because they should have a good steer on that particular instance. But it could vary from property to property, culvert to culvert, pipe to pipe. What we do have to do is have all of these in good condition.

I mentioned in the debate last week that we now have a national register, a database of these culverts within Wales—we're ahead of the game a bit here. Now, we need to make sure—. As we've seen with the effect of the recent storms, some of them are getting overwhelmed and damaged, and these things about, 'Right, who's responsible?', will become more and more. Sometimes, it will be the property owner; other times, it will be the local authority, or it will be the former Coal Authority, now the Mining Remediation Authority, and so on. So, I can't give you an easy answer on that one, I'm afraid.

Llywydd, I wonder if you can oblige me, I just wanted to say one important thing. I forgot to mention, in response to an earlier question that was raised on domestic abuse and violence—. I mentioned that this had been thought through in the previous—. When this was actually brought forward, it had been very well thought through, and there is advice available on how you can actually opt out and stop your phone ringing, and we need to—. I'm saying that deliberately because what I'll do is, on the back of this, working with my colleague Jane Hutt, we'll put something out to Members so that they can spread the word. Because this is the first time it's been deployed on a national scale in anger. We now need to spread the word, to say that if you don't want to receive this, there are ways to opt out. We'll get that message around to Senedd Members.

Secondly, the Cabinet Secretary may have seen the damage, the serious damage, caused to the Porth Wen solar farm in Ynys Môn by the winds. I have a number of concerns: one, the visual impact of acres of shattered solar panels, the investment that will have to go into that to fix them that could be spent on other renewables projects, plus the environmental risks there—heavy metals, chemicals in those solar panels. Can I ask what assessment will be made of that, and will the Government look again at the overall issue of deployment of solar in this way? There are really innovative ways of doing solar; this is not the way of doing it, by putting solar on beautiful, productive and windswept thousands of acres in places like Ynys Môn.

Rhun, thank you very much. I echo your opening comments on the thanks to people who helped with the response to this. I'm going to try and avoid being drawn on the back of storm Darragh into a discussion on the pros and cons of solar installations. I mentioned to you the scale and severity of this storm, and while I didn't have any outages or whatever, we had a window sucked clean out of the building in the strength of this. I'm on the top of the hills in Maesteg there, and the wind comes straight across from the sea, across the top of Margam mountain. It was an interesting moment, actually, as we suddenly thought, 'We have a well-ventilated house.' But that was the severity of it, so maybe it's not surprising that some of the infrastructure, including things like solar farms, would have some disruption from it.

On the Holyhead port, listen, I'll liaise with Ken Skates as well, and see if we can get back to you on that. We'd want Holyhead port, and our other major transport infrastructure, to be up and running, but we saw the impact right across the rail network, not just with trees falling, but flooding as well, and the road network and Holyhead port as well were impacted. So, I'll discuss it with Ken Skates in his transport role and get back to you.

I'm pleased to present these regulations to the Senedd for approval. These regulations are intrinsically linked to the Developments of National Significance (Wales) (Amendment) Regulations 2024, which are subject to the negative procedure and which were laid on 2 December. The combined effect of these two sets of regulations is to delegate the determination of DNS applications for electricity-generating projects below 50 MW to an inspector, and ensure the Welsh Ministers fee for determination of such applications is only payable where a determination is made by them as a result of a direction.

The DNS system was established in 2016, and this set that electricity-generating projects above 10 MW should be determined by the Welsh Ministers. Since then, policy, technology and legislative changes have occurred. As a consequence, it's disproportionate for the default position to be that electricity-generating projects below 50 MW are determined by Welsh Ministers. An increase in technology efficiency means these schemes are smaller for the same output. Further, an increased understanding of the issues has made their determination less complex.

The Infrastructure (Wales) Act 2024 reflects these changes by increasing the threshold for electricity-generating projects to be determined as a nationally significant infrastructure project under the Act to 50 MW. The application and determination process does not change with the delegation of determination to an inspector. Our community engagement, consultation with statutory consultees and our policy framework for determination all remain the same. It is clear there is no downgrading of these applications. As the Infrastructure (Wales) Act is intended to come into force in September 2025, this is an interim arrangement until then.

I will make this clear: there is no democratic deficit from this change. Inspectors appointed by Planning and Environment Decisions Wales currently make other decisions on our behalf, including DNS decisions in relation to overhead electric lines, and where planning decisions made by a planning authority are subject to an appeal. The Welsh Ministers have the power to direct an application for them for determination should the specific case warrant it.

Turning to the specific effect of these regulations, they provide that the fee for the Welsh Ministers determining applications for electricity-generating projects below 50 MW is only payable where the application is determined by them instead of an inspector, as a result of a direction. This means the overall fee will reduce by £14,700 where determination is made by an inspector. Importantly, it will mean we accord with the principles in 'Managing Welsh Public Money' by not making a profit on applications.

In conclusion, I consider these amendments will benefit all parties involved, as there is no change to the process and decisions are able to be made as efficiently as possible.

Diolch, Llywydd. The Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee considered these draft regulations last week. The Welsh Government's response to our reporting points arrived just before our meeting started, so we were able to take that into account before we laid our report before the Senedd. The committee’s report contains one technical and three merits reporting points.

I will start by focusing on the second and third points in the committee’s report, which comment on the interlink between these draft regulations and a separate set of regulations, which, at the time these regulations were laid before the Senedd, the Welsh Government intended to make in the future. The Welsh Government has now adjusted its approach. Originally, the Welsh Government intended to make a second set of regulations, the Developments of National Significance (Wales) (Amendment) Regulations 2024, after today’s debate. This was even though the amendment made by the draft regulations we are considering this afternoon would be consequential on the second set of regulations. This approach to legislating concerned the committee.

The committee's scrutiny of these draft regulations have been made more difficult by the second set of regulations not being laid at the same time. The original explanatory memorandum to these draft regulations describes them as being consequential on amendments to be made in those future regulations, suggesting the key policy detail was yet to be made clear. We asked why the second set of regulations were not made and laid at the same time as these regulations were laid in draft before the Senedd, with coming-into-force provisions aligned. We also asked if there is a reason why both sets of regulations could not have been combined in accordance with the power available to the Welsh Ministers in section 40 of the Legislation (Wales) Act 2019.

In addition, if it was not possible to use that power in the 2019 Act, we asked why the planned second set of regulations could not have been made and laid first, in order that the Senedd could choose whether to annul those regulations before considering whether to approve the consequential changes to the fees regime provided for by these draft regulations. The Government agrees it is possible for both sets of regulations to come into force on the same day without them being made simultaneously. The Government also acknowledged the committee’s concern that the scrutiny of these draft regulations has been made more difficult because the second set of regulations had not been laid. Consequently, the Welsh Ministers have made those second set of regulations, and they have now been laid before the Senedd. The Welsh Government has also amended the original explanatory memorandum for the draft regulations, and a new version has been laid, which reflects the Government’s change in approach.

Finally, the single technical reporting point highlights a drafting decision regarding defined terms that could potentially cause confusion. The Government has accepted there is a potential for confusion. Nonetheless, it considers that the amendments made by these draft regulations have the desired legal effect.

Plaid Cymru will be opposing these regulations, because they undermine accountability and community engagement in planning decisions for energy projects of significant scale. The decision to raise the threshold for classification under the new regime marks a fundamental shift in the classification of developments of national significance. Projects that could have considerable impacts on local communities, landscapes and ecosystems will now receive less scrutiny, with decision-making processes potentially expedited—and this is where we disagree with the Cabinet Secretary—at the expense of thorough democratic oversight.

While we recognise the need for efficiency in the planning system, this cannot come at the cost of transparency and community involvement. Energy projects, even those under 50 MW, can have profound effects on local environments and the people who live there. So, it is vital that communities have a meaningful voice in these decisions, yet these regulations risk sidelining that voice in the interest of speed and convenience. We are particularly concerned about the transfer of decision-making powers from Welsh Ministers to appointed inspectors.

Public confidence in the planning process depends on a system that is not only efficient, but also fair, transparent and open to challenge. We support ambitious action to meet Wales's net-zero target, and welcome investment that aligns with those goals, but this must be done in a way that respects the rights of communities and safeguards the natural environment. By prioritising speed over scrutiny, these regulations fail to strike that right balance. So, we call on the Welsh Government to reconsider these changes, and ensure that planning reforms uphold principles of accountability, fairness and public trust, while delivering sustainable energy solutions for Wales.

Diolch, Llywydd. I'm afraid Plaid Cymru seem to have completely misunderstood the regulations that are being debated today, because the application and determination process doesn't change at all with the delegation of determinations to inspectors. The community engagement, consultation with statutory consultees, and the policy framework all remain exactly the same. This is something that has had already a significant amount of scrutiny through the Senedd, because, of course, what it's doing, essentially, is bringing forward changes that will take place under the Infrastructure (Wales) Act, which this Senedd scrutinised in huge detail. It's bringing those changes forward to make those decisions by Planning and Environment Decisions Wales—. In future, the Senedd has agreed, those decisions will be taken by local planning authorities. So this matter has already had a huge degree of scrutiny. And just to emphasise again, there is no change whatsoever to the requirements around community engagement, around the statutory consultation and around our policy framework as well. So, there's no change there. The fundamental objection that Plaid Cymru has to these regulations doesn't have any foundation at all.

Thank you very much to the LJC committee for the work that it did. I absolutely acknowledge the points that Mike Hedges, as the Chair, has set out this afternoon. Following the consideration of the report from the LJC committee on the fees regulations and the Developments of National Significance (Wales) (Amendment) Regulations 2024, we have prepared a single explanatory memorandum and regulatory impact assessment to reflect how both sets of regulations will work together, and you do need to consider both regulations to understand the policy and the effects. But, again, thank you very much to the LJC committee. I acknowledge the concerns that have been set out in terms of the scrutiny of the regulations being made more difficult because the DNS regulations weren't laid at the same time as these regulations. I had, as the Chair of the committee says, originally intended to make those regulations following the debate. However, to address the concerns of the committee, we did lay the regulations on 2 November, so that the contents of those were available to the LJC committee and the Senedd in advance of the debate here today. So, I think the work that the committee did has very much helped us in the scrutiny of the regulations today.

In 2023, it was estimated that over 5 million single-use vapes were being littered or thrown away every single week within the UK. That is almost four times as much as the previous year. These littered single-use vapes can introduce damaging plastics, nicotine salts, heavy metals and other chemicals into the environment, damaging wildlife. When littered, the plastic casing can grind down into harmful microplastics. The lithium-ion batteries can be a fire risk and the single-use vapes themselves, if they're not littered on the street, often end up in landfill. And, on top of all this, we know they're driving the deeply worrying rise in youth vaping. I hope you will all, therefore, agree we must take action to shift away from this throwaway culture.

If I turn to the regulations themselves, from 1 June 2025, it will be an offence to supply single-use vapes in Wales. This includes vapes being given away for free and vapes containing and not containing nicotine. Reusable vapes will continue to be sold. Anyone found supplying single-use vapes after 1 June and/or ignoring a stop notice could potentially face a substantial fine, or even imprisonment. We believe that, through continued awareness raising, a six-month period to remove stock and UK-wide guidance, businesses will be ready to comply with the law in Wales. We'll also continue to work closely with Trading Standards Wales and with our local authorities, the latter of whom will enforce these regulations, to determine how best to support them. 

Diolch, Llywydd. The Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee considered these draft regulations last week. I thank the Deputy First Minister for the response the committee received to its report. The committee's report contains five technical reporting points and one merits reporting point. Four of the technical reporting points identify matters where the committee considers further explanation is required.

For example, the fifth technical reporting point in the committee's report notes that paragraph 29(4) of the Schedule to the regulations allows a person upon whom an enforcement cost recovery notice has been served to require that the regulator provide a detailed breakdown of the amount. However, there is no information provided as to how that person must go about exercising this right. There is also no requirement on the regulator to provide the information in any set form or timescale. The Welsh Government's response to this reporting point states that the Government will bring this point to the regulators' attention for their consideration as to whether it should be addressed in guidance. Now, while the committee acknowledges this response, we suggest that it isn't entirely satisfactory that this is being left to the regulators to deal with, particularly as it will involve people exercising their rights against those regulators. The Deputy First Minister may wish to reflect on this in his closing remarks.

The remaining technical reporting point identifies an inconsistency between the English and Welsh texts. We thank the Deputy First Minister for confirming that this error will be corrected before the regulations are made, subject to the Senedd’s approval this afternoon.

Finally, the single merits point in the committee’s report relates to the preamble for the regulations, in which there is no reference to the health of plants. The committee’s report notes this omission, as the prevention of harm to animals or plants along with human health and the environment, is noted in section 140(1) of the Environmental Protection Act 1990 as a purpose for exercising the powers found in that section. The committee acknowledges the Welsh Government's response, that the impact of littering of single-use vapes on plants has generated less research and is therefore less certain, and that the exercise of the power in section 140(1) of the 1990 Act does not require potential harm to both the health of animals and plants.

Diolch, Llywydd. And first of all, can I thank the Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee, and the Chair, for their observations on this motion, which we were pleased to respond to? And, of course, we’ll always reflect, Mike, on additional points that are raised by the committee, but we do think we have a satisfactory way forward, both from the technical and the merits points that were raised, which we outlined within our response to you.

Rhys, look, I commend your championing of this, and it has taken a little bit longer to bring this forward. But our intention, here, to prohibit the supply of single-use vapes to consumers, regardless of the materials they’re made from—. So, plastic litter, as I mentioned, is a massive environmental concern, but it’s also the lithium batteries, the single-use nature of the products themselves, that are a primary cause as well of environmental harms. And any restrictions on peripheral materials would not suitably acknowledge, recognise, the wider environmental risk posed by these single-use vapes and all the things that are within them.

So, the Environmental Protection (Single-use Plastic Products) (Wales) Act 2023 prohibits the sale or supply of single-use plastic products to consumers. The Act does not provide the necessary powers to ban the sale or supply of single-use vapes, regardless of the materials used, or prohibit the sale or supply of vapes between businesses. Therefore, alternative powers were sought under the Environmental Protection Act 1990. But we’ve got there. We’ve got to this point. And those masses of litter, and the wider environmental degradation caused by these, we can consign to the past. And I think, once again, it may not be quite in the timescale that you’d have wanted, but we’ve got there, and, again, I think it’s a place here where Wales, once again, leads in terms of some of the action that we can take on environmental matters.

I move.

Diolch, Llywydd. At the outset, I think it's important to recognise that there will be differing views across the Senedd, as outside, regarding the clinical evidence in relation to puberty-suppressing hormones, or puberty blockers, the treatments at the heart of these regulations, and the appropriate policy response. That's not our focus tonight. It's whether the Welsh Government has followed the law. 

The regulations before us and the original regulations they seek to amend effectively make participation in a clinical trial the sole pathway to accessing treatment for transgender children and young people. As no such trial is yet available, these regulations currently deny access to puberty blockers entirely for this group of patients. Making access to future treatment conditional on participation in a clinical trial is also arguably unfair, as it places undue pressure on a child to agree to the research protocol. We believe that these significant changes in the right to access treatment should be subject to consultation with the children and young people affected by them, because that is what the law says. The Welsh Government is bound by the Rights of Children and Young Persons (Wales) Measure 2011, which places a legal duty on Ministers to give due regard to the United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child. Article 12 guarantees children the right to be heard in matters affecting them, yet the explanatory memorandum for these regulations openly admits that 

'No consultation is taking place with persons to represent the interests of those who may require puberty blockers for gender dysphoria.'

Additionally, article 3 of the UN convention requires that the best interests of the child are the primary consideration in all actions affecting children. The Government's children's rights scheme identifies the children's rights impact assessment as the key tool to ensure compliance with this duty, yet to my knowledge at least, and the Government publishes a register of the children's rights impact assessments that it conducts, no assessment was conducted for either these regulations or the original set.

These failings are compounded by the requirements of the Equality Act 2010. Section 149 of the Act imposes a duty on public bodies to eliminate discrimination and advance equality of opportunity for groups with protected characteristics. The regulations treat transgender youth, which are a group with protected characteristics for the purposes of the Equality Act, differently by restricting their access to puberty blockers, while allowing other children and young people access to the same treatments for other medical conditions. The Welsh Government has, to our mind, failed to justify this differential treatment, and it has not published an equality impact assessment setting out any rationale. This is particularly problematic in the case of those transgender individuals birth-registered males at the start of their transition to stop irreversible pubertal change, for which the Cass review explicitly accepted the evidence that benefits outweighed the risks and for which, prior to these regulations, GPs could make an independent patient funding request on an exceptional basis. 

There are clear parallels between the situation I've described here and the case earlier in the year involving the suspension of holiday free school meals. The High Court declared in February Welsh Government's decision unlawful, because it failed to comply with both section 149 of the Equality Act, which I described, and the Rights of Children and Young Persons (Wales) Measure. These regulations tonight show the exact same failings: a lack of consultation, a failure to conduct impact assessments and insufficient regard for children's rights and equality duties required by statute. 

The Senedd has the opportunity tonight to send a clear message to the Government that the first imperative in making any law, and especially a law that affects the young, is to listen, which it has signally failed to do in this case.

I'm grateful to the Member for bringing this forward for discussion today. There are clearly a number of technical points, which the Member has already outlined in his contribution here this evening. To be clear, we will be voting against the proposed annulment of the regulations this evening. And I’m not going to go into the technicalities that the Members has presented, but what I will share is how I see the issue that’s been described to us.

For me, there are two parts to the issue. The first part is the focus of the Member’s argument, which is the way in which the regulations have been drawn up. For me, the second part is the impact or otherwise of the said regulations being annulled. So, to deal with the first part first, it’s my understanding that the Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee in the Senedd had previously requested clarification on the principal regulations, which then led to the amended regulations, which is the point that the Member has raised here this evening. And I understand that the LJC noted a lack of clarity of those people described as 'prescribers', whilst the initial regulation included 'general practitioners'. The amendment now rightly included all those prescribing under a general medical services contract, therefore providing much-needed clarity. And for me, this makes complete sense and would not move away from the initial intent of the regulations. Indeed, it provides much-needed clarity, which is the point that the LJC sought from the Government. And, indeed, in a letter to the Cabinet Secretary for Health and Social Care on 24 September, the committee, in seeking that clarity, expressed disappointment that this lack of clarity would remain on the statute book for up to another 12 months, hence the reason why the Cabinet Secretary brought forward the amended regulations sooner—to satisfy the request of the committee.

In regard to the second part, which is, as I see it, the impact or otherwise of the regulations being sought to be annulled, as the Member has outlined, the intent to annul is in relation to the prescribing of puberty blockers. And I think it’s important to be clear about what that might mean for children and young people if those other people within the GMS contract are able to prescribe those puberty blockers. The Member referenced the Cass review, which was released earlier this year by Dr Hilary Cass—and has been debated in this Chamber at some point this year as well—following extensive research and investigation. And Dr Cass stated that the reality is that we have no good evidence on the long-term outcomes of interventions to manage gender-related distress. And the official summary of the final report continues that

'not enough is known about the longer-term impacts of puberty blockers for children and young people with gender incongruence to know whether they are safe or not'.

And this is why the regulations were put in place and this is why the clarity was required, and therefore why the amended regulations in front of us this evening were also required, because of the safety of children and young people, which are at the heart of these regulations. And, indeed, the current British Government under the health Secretary, Wes Streeting, have extended a ban on puberty blockers, which was originally brought in by the previous Conservative Government.

So, in summary, Llywydd, I’ve listened to the Member's argument here this evening. Whilst I may not be anywhere close to his legal mind, my reading of the request from LJC committee for clarity, which created the amendment, for me makes sense, and I've also outlined the possible risks if the amendment is annulled here this evening as well. Diolch yn fawr iawn.

Diolch, Llywydd. My contribution as Chair of the Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee will focus on the committee’s consideration of these regulations and related regulations made earlier this year. The National Health Service (General Medical Services Contracts) (Prescription of Drugs Etc.) (Wales) Regulations 2004 are, for these purposes, known as the principal regulations, and they make provision about the drugs, medicines or other substances that may be ordered under certain circumstances for patients in the provision of medical services under a general medical services contract.

In July, the committee scrutinised the National Health Service (General Medical Services Contracts) (Prescription of Drugs Etc.) (Wales) (Amendment) Regulations 2024. They amended the principal regulations by placing restrictions on the prescribing of gonadotrophin-releasing hormone analogues by general medical practitioners in Wales when used to suppress puberty as part of treating gender incongruence or gender dysphoria in children and young people under 18 years of age. The committee’s report on those amendment regulations was laid before the Senedd on 16 July. In that report, the committee highlighted that the definition of 'general medical practitioner' in those regulations was unclear, in part because the Medical Act 1983 provides for two registers that could potentially apply to the definition. In response, the Welsh Government agreed that it would look to provide clarity in an amending instrument within 12 months. The committee wrote to the Cabinet Secretary on 24 September expressing disappointment that this lack of clarity would remain on the statute book for up to another 12 months. The Cabinet Secretary replied on 7 October, confirming that the amendment regulations were being prepared.

The No. 2 amendment regulations that are the subject of this afternoon’s debate were laid on 25 October and respond to the lack of clarity issue the committee highlighted in July. They also extend the restrictions set out in July’s regulations beyond treatment provided by a general medical practitioner to treatment provided under a GMS contract. The committee considered the No. 2 amendment regulations on 11 November, and considered the Welsh Government’s response to our report on 3 December. No further action was discussed or agreed by the committee.

Diolch, Llywydd. I just want to say that this is an issue that we all take extremely seriously, and I'm actually grateful to Adam for raising it. I think it's something that the Senedd takes an interest in, and so do the people of Wales. I do though fundamentally disagree, I'm afraid, with Adam's main synopsis of the situation we find ourselves in, and, Llywydd, I'm just going to go through a small history of how we got here, for people to understand exactly where we are and what the effect of this will be.

So, the annulment motion proposes that the Senedd, as we know, in accordance with Standing Order 27.2, agrees that the National Health Service (General Medical Services Contracts) (Prescription of Drugs Etc.) (Wales) (Amendment) (No. 2) Regulations 2024, laid before the Senedd on 25 October 2024, be annulled. Forgive me, Members, if you all know this, but I think it's worth stating all of these things again. The term 'puberty blockers' refers to a group of medicines that can be used to delay the changes of puberty in transgender and gender diverse youth who have started puberty. On 29 May this year, the UK Government introduced the Medicines (Gonadotrophin-Releasing Hormone Analogues) (Emergency Prohibition) (England, Wales and Scotland) Order 2024, known as the first emergency Order, which placed emergency restrictions on the sale and supply of so-called puberty blockers as part of treating gender incongruence or gender dysphoria in children and young people under 18 years of age. The emergency Order was made in a direct response to recommendations made by the independent review of gender identity services for children and young people in England, known colloquially as the Cass review, which published in April. The first emergency Order restricted—and I think this is the really important part, Members—restricted private, i.e. non-NHS, prescribing of puberty blockers by UK registered prescribers, unless treatment had commenced prior to the restrictions coming into force, and prohibited any prescribing by non-UK registered prescribers. The first emergency Order came into effect on 3 June 2024 for the maximum period of three months allowed in legislation. A second and third emergency Order has been made by the UK Government on expiry of the first and second Orders respectively, with the most recent Order due to expire on 31 December. The emergency Orders place no restrictions on prescribing by prescribers working within the NHS, provided such prescribing is part of the prescriber's NHS practice.

So, Llywydd, these are a direct response to the Cass review, regarding prescribing by private practitioners, including those not registered in or accountable to professional regulators in the UK. The Cass review was commissioned by NHS England to make recommendations on those gender identity services, and NHS Wales is represented on the NHS England transformation programme by the joint commissioning committee, which represents all seven health boards. The Welsh Government continues to be driven by the evidence to best support the needs of young people who are questioning their gender. The JCC is also considering the findings in the Cass review to inform a planned review of the Wales gender service for adults in Wales.

In practice, few, if any, general practitioners in Wales actually prescribe puberty blockers for puberty suppression in children and young people. The Royal College of General Practitioners advises that GPs should not prescribe puberty blockers for patients aged under 18 years of age, given the concerns about the evidence base in this area, as well as the specialist expertise required to monitor dosage and side effects. The Cass review heard that some GPs had come under increasing pressure to prescribe puberty blockers, and it was considered likely that the emergency restrictions on the private prescribing would increase the pressure.

Following the first emergency Order coming into force, the National Health Service (General Medical Services Contracts) (Prescription of Drugs Etc.) (Wales) (Amendment) Regulations 2024 were made on 27 June and came into force on 19 July. The National Health Service (General Medical Services Contracts) (Prescription of Drugs Etc.) (Wales) (Amendment) (No. 2) Regulations 2024 make minor amendments to the definition of the healthcare professionals who can prescribe puberty blockers in NHS general practice, and they were made on 25 October and came into force on 15 November. The net effect of the two sets of regulations in Wales is that general practitioners and other prescribers working in general practice are not permitted to prescribe puberty blockers to children and young people unless that person has an existing prescription for puberty blockers obtained prior to 19 July 2024, or is being treated with puberty blockers as part of a clinical trial and the purpose of both is for puberty suppression in respect of gender dysphoria, gender incongruence or a combination of both. So, I think it's worth pointing out, therefore, that I think, as Sam said, the net effect of the two regulations is that under-18s with an existing prescription can still obtain puberty blockers, and GPs can prescribe puberty blockers for under-18s who commenced treatment before the regulations came into force in July. However, the advice of the Royal College of General Practitioners is that GPs should not prescribe these medicines unless they have appropriate expertise in the management of gender dysphoria and/or gender incongruence.

The effect of the regulations is to align GP prescribing with the evidence-based recommendations of the Cass review, and under-18s seeking puberty blockers can obtain a prescription via the clinical trial being run by the new gender identity clinics being established by NHS England and commissioned by the NHS Wales joint commissioning committee. The regulations do not prevent onward referral by a GP to a specialist gender service for prescription of puberty blockers as part of that clinical trial. We expect to see more details on the eligibility of the research trial in January, but our understanding is that puberty blockers will be available for all young people as part of the trial, where there is clinical agreement. The service in Bristol has already started seeing patients, and we expect the service in Alder Hey to open soon.

Turning to the programme of engagement, Llywydd, which Adam Price raised, the Cass review included a significant programme of engagement, including with young people, parents and carers with lived experience. Stakeholders across Wales were encouraged to participate in the review's consultation by signing up to receive and respond to all related consultations. NHS England ran a 90-day public consultation on the policy proposition, and the Welsh Health Specialised Services Committee, now the joint commissioning committee, updated Llais Cymru and the Children's Commissioner for Wales office throughout the period of the review. As Mike Hedges, the Chair, said, the Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee considered the amendment No. 2 regulations on 11 November and again on 3 December.

So, passing the motion to annul will not broaden in any way the circumstances in which NHS general practitioners will be able to prescribe puberty blockers. It will, however, give a certain amount of uncertainty as to other medical professionals' ability to do so or not. We don't think that's a particularly good position to be in. It's better to have clarity about who is and isn't able to prescribe.

Turning to the specific legal issues raised by Adam Price in his submission, article 14 of the Equality and Human Rights Commission convention rights on discrimination is engaged only where the matter falls within the ambit of another convention right, such as article 8: private and family life. Article 14 can be breached even if the substantive article, i.e. article 8, is not breached. But what is at issue here is the matter of the ability of a child to access puberty blocker treatment via their GP on the NHS. There is much case law that demonstrates that the state does not breach article 8 by refusing to authorise a particular type of medical treatment, even at an individual level, still less as a matter of general policy. It has repeatedly been held that matters of healthcare policy fall within the state's margin of appreciation and the type of complex ethical resourcing issues entailed in such policy decisions are not ones that should be second guessed by the court.

Llywydd, it's not possible, therefore, to completely rule out the possibility that the availability of such treatment is within the ambit of article 8, so as to engage article 14, but we think, given the case law, that that is unlikely. In article 14 terms, it is difficult to see how one sex is treated differently, directly or indirectly, by the policy set out in the regulation, as the policy applies to males and females and those who identify as males and females in exactly the same way. We are not aware that any particular sub-cohort within the cohort of under 18s that could previously have been prescribed puberty blockers by their GP would be disproportionately affected compared to any other sub-cohort so as to claim indirect discrimination.

Article 14 also covers discrimination on grounds of other status. The courts have generally approached this on a wide basis. It may be possible for a claim to be brought on this basis, as between those who can afford to pay for puberty blockers privately and those who need to rely on the NHS. Even if differential treatment on a ground within article 14 can be shown, article 14 is not breached if the difference in treatment meets a legitimate aim and a fair balance has been struck between the rights protected by article 14 and the general interest.

The protection of the physical and mental health of others, as demonstrated by the Cass review, is a legitimate aim in this case, and a fair balance has been struck because the policy is not an outright ban on puberty blockers. Instead, it is a calibrated response so that the net effect of the regulations in Wales is that prescribers under general medical services contracts are not permitted to prescribe puberty blockers to under-18s unless the person has an existing prescription for puberty blockers obtained prior to 19 July 2024, or is being treated with puberty blockers as part of a clinical trial. Further, the restrictions and regulations do not prevent onward referral by a GP to specialist gender services for the provision of puberty blockers. So, the policy and the regulations, for the reasons set out in the Cass review, pursue the legitimate aim of protecting the physical and mental health of under-18s in the context of treatment with puberty blockers. The regulations preserve the ability of under-18s who were undergoing treatment prior to the regulations coming into effect, or those taking part in a clinical trial, to obtain puberty blockers, and they do not prevent the prescription of puberty blockers by specialist gender services, and that strikes a fair balance between the rights protected by article 14 and the general interests. The regulations are, therefore, in my view and the view of the Welsh Government, proportionate and not a breach of article 14.

Turning, then, to the Rights of Children and Young Persons (Wales) Measure 2011, the duty in section 1 of the Measure is a duty to have regard to the rights in part 1 of the United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child. It is not a duty to apply the rights of the child in part 1 of the UNCRC. And having regard to the recommendations of the Cass review and the calibrated nature of the regulations, which are not an outright ban on the prescription of puberty blockers, which preserve the ability, in certain circumstances, to safely prescribe those drugs to under-18s, it is clear that the Welsh Ministers have had due regard to the rights set out in the UNCRC and, in my judgment, that satisfies the duty.

Turning, then, to consultation, it's absolutely right that we did not carry out, as the Welsh Government, a formal public consultation on the policies and the regulations prior to making the regulations. However, there is no statutory duty to consult in such a way. Absence of statutory duty public law requires consultation where there has been a promise to consult, a practice of consulting, or it would be conspicuously unfair not to consult. There was no promise to consult on the policy and no past practice of consulting has been established. It is not considered likely that a legal challenge on the grounds of conspicuous unfairness could succeed. There is no evidence that any sub-cohort of under-18s affected by policy in the regulations are peculiarly and detrimentally affected by the policy. So, for example, there is no sub-cohort that would be prevented from accessing puberty blocker treatment under the policy via specialist gender services.

Whilst the UNCRC does provide for the views of the child to be able to be expressed and given due weight, it is the view of the Welsh Government that the requirement under the Measure to give due regard to that right is met in circumstances where, under domestic law, there is duty to or a choice to consult on a matter and the views of children are duly sought and considered. But there is no duty in domestic law to consult on a matter where the Welsh Government is of the view that the duty to have due regard to the rights under the UNCRC does not itself create a free-standing obligation to consult children. Therefore, in my contention, Llywydd, the Welsh Government had no such duty to consult. It has properly given due regard to the rights under the Measure and has properly implemented the regulations, and I ask the Senedd to confirm them.

I’m really disappointed to hear the Counsel General say that there is no duty to consult with regard to these regulations, when they clearly affect transgender children and youth in a very, very direct fashion. What the Counsel General seems to be saying is, ‘We have given due regard if we say we’ve given due regard.’ That is not really, I think, borne out by the case that I mentioned, in which the High Court declared by consent that the Welsh Government had not given due regard. The Welsh Government—

Adam Price, I have an intervention being sought by Hefin David online.

Yes, certainly.

Hefin David.

Diolch, Llywydd. I listened to the Counsel General’s speech. I have to say, while it was technically correct, it was read with no passion, no enthusiasm whatsoever. I’ve got a transgender constituent who’s been to the Bristol Clinic and has found it severely wanting. I think we need more from the Government on this. And while I will vote for the Government for technical reasons, I think we need more passion from the Government on these issues, and I’m deeply disappointed by the Counsel General’s contribution.