National Assembly for Wales

Welcome back to you all, and welcome to this afternoon’s Plenary meeting. The first item on our agenda is questions to the First Minister, and the first question is from Heledd Fychan.

The Government puts people’s safety first. We don’t just talk about what we’re doing, we deliver. And all schools that have been affected by RAAC have completed the mitigation work that’s necessary, and wards have reopened at Withybush hospital, and also mitigation works have already been completed at Nevill Hall Hospital.

Diolch, Prif Weinidog. I recently met with a small group of residents who are private home owners on the Gower estate in Hirwaun, where there is RAAC in the ceilings. They are mainly elderly people, all from low-income households. In order to make their homes safe, they are facing bills of thousands of pounds that they cannot pay, and due to the fact that many homes share adjoining roofs with properties owned by a housing association, they also have no choice about what type of remedial works are carried out. One family told me that the association offered to possibly buy the property back for them, but for the current market value, reduced due to the RAAC, and minus the cost of remedial works. This would essentially make them homeless and without the funds to buy another property. When this was raised in May 2024, Julie James, as then Cabinet Secretary, told us that the Welsh Government would assess the overall situation and would be calling for a four-nations approach across the UK.

So, First Minister, can you confirm if any progress has been made on a four-nations approach, and are there any plans for the Welsh Government to put in place a scheme of assistance strategy, similar to the one established in Scotland, to support private home owners affected by RAAC, where they are unable to fund the remedial works themselves?

Diolch yn fawr iawn. We’re in a very different situation from England, partly because of the massive investment in twenty-first century schools that’s happened—billions gone into those—which means that, in England, there are 237 schools with RAAC, and, in Wales, there were only two high schools, and five altogether. So, we’re in a very, very different situation.

I am aware of what’s going on on the Gower estate in Hirwaun. Now, Wales has benefited from the work of the Welsh housing quality standard in the last few years, so we’re aware that we have generally good-quality records available. I know that the Trivallis housing association are working closely with Rhondda Cynon Taf council, and they’re assisting, where possible, the private property owners affected by RAAC at that estate. Now, a remediation plan for social housing has been developed by the housing association, and I understand that private residents have been offered the opportunity of participating in that process should they wish. What I do know is that the local Member has been helping those who were really concerned about the prospect of becoming homeless, and I thank her for those efforts.

First Minister, you mentioned Withybush hospital in my constituency, and there have been RAAC problems at the hospital for some time. Now, Hywel Dda University Health Board has said that whilst it’s something that will have to be managed, Withybush hospital is definitely over the worst of the RAAC issue. Now, at the same time, you’ll also be aware that the health board is in targeted intervention status because of its shortcomings in planning and finance, and is under enhanced monitoring arrangements for performance and quality. Therefore, given the challenges that the health board is facing in key areas like finance and planning, how confident are you that the management will actually be able to get on top of this matter?

Well, thanks very much, and I’m really pleased to see the progress being made in relation to RAAC in Withybush. It was very, very difficult at the time, decanting lots and lots of patients to other hospitals, and it's great that those wards have been reopened. I spent some time in the hospital looking at the effects, and it was quite frightening to see the impact on the hospital. It's great to see that the patients are back in. There are issues in relation to the health board, obviously. Almost all health boards in Wales are facing very significant financial challenges at the same time as we're asking them to drive forward with driving down the waiting lists. So, they've got to get the balance right, and, obviously, Hywel Dda health board is in specific monitoring by the Welsh Government to make sure that they come in on budget, as we'd hope that they would.

It is too early to have made a detailed assessment of what will be a relatively complex situation. My officials are working closely with partners in the third sector partnership council and Third Sector Support Wales to understand the impacts of the UK budget in the short, medium and longer term.

Thank you very much for that response. I'm pleased that some work is already being done.

The planned uplift in employer national insurance contributions will have huge financial repercussions for the third sector. The National Council for Voluntary Organisations has estimated it could be as much as £1.4 billion a year across the UK. It has been described by them as the biggest shock to the sector since the COVID-19 pandemic. As you will know, First Minister, many organisations in the third sector carry out essential services. They are often contracted by the public sector to carry out front-line duties for and on behalf of public authorities. Can you tell me what discussions has your Government had with the third sector in Wales about the budget announcements since this shock announcement? Have you asked your Labour colleagues in Westminster for further exemptions to be made to ease the financial burden on the third sector? And finally, how do you plan to mitigate the impact of this announcement for the third sector organisations in Wales? Diolch.

Diolch yn fawr. These tax decisions, obviously, are for the United Kingdom Government—they're not devolved decisions. The Chancellor was very clear about the challenges that were facing the public finances in the run-up to the election, and, clearly, hard choices had to be made. Now, one of the choices that was made was that raise to the national insurance contributions. We know that there are about 40,000 voluntary organisations operating across Wales. But in order to recognise and to protect the smallest businesses and charities, they doubled the employment allowance to £10,500. So, half of businesses with national insurance contribution liabilities will either gain or see no change next year. So, my guess is that there will be less of an impact on those third sector organisations, but, obviously, we need more time to analyse that impact. What I do know is that the calculation being made is that about 2 per cent of businesses will be paying three quarters of the amount raised through those national insurance hikes.

What we know about the budget is it's a first step in fixing the foundations of the economy, and a very good first step too, but it's going to be a five-year programme. I'd like to take the opportunity to celebrate some of the wonderful voluntary organisations in my constituency, such as the Trethomas Parish Trust, Sparrows Additional Learning Needs Group, which I use with my family, the Valley Daffodils and, of course, the Senghenydd Youth Drop In Centre. All of these receive support both from grant funding and some from the local authority. Would the First Minister therefore commit to keeping open a dialogue with the UK Government to ensure that organisations like those are an integral part of the five-year plan?

Thanks very much. I know that we as a Government appreciate the massive contribution that the third sector makes to our society generally, but also in terms of delivering important public services. The fact is that third sector support for Wales is not insignificant. The Wales Council for Voluntary Action—we provide them with core funding of £7.65 million. And in Gwent, covering the Caerphilly area, they receive about £763,000, which, again, is not an insignificant amount of money. But, as I say, we're going to have to look at how national insurance affects these third sector organisations, but I do think that that uplift in the allowance should give some relief to some of those organisations.

First Minister, as we have heard, the increase in national insurance contributions that will need to be paid by employers announced in the new Labour Government’s budget is expected to have a devastating impact on charities, with an estimated additional annual bill of around a staggering £1.4 billion. However you swallow this, whether a charity decides to reduce the number of employees so it delivers less of a service or whether it cuts spending on projects and initiatives, it ultimately means that the sector will be considerably weakened and there will be considerably less support for some of the most vulnerable in our communities. First Minister, we know how this story plays out. It will inevitably translate into the need for more spending on public services to fill in the gaps that will inevitably be created. So, with this in mind, do you agree with me that the UK Labour Government should reimburse voluntary organisations for the increased employer national insurance contributions? Thank you.

We’re in a situation where we’ve inherited and the UK has inherited a very severe and serious financial situation. There was a massive hole in the economy, left by your Conservative Party, and I’m very pleased to see that the Chancellor has recognised that and recognised the pressure that public services have been under for a long time. Public services very often do delegate responsibilities to third sector organisations. We’ve been given an assurance in relation to national insurance that that’s actually for public sector directly employed people. There will be an opportunity to pass that additional money on, but it is for the public services. So, obviously, there are challenges in other areas, but, as I say, that national insurance contribution uplift should make a significant difference to those third sector organisations.

You say your Government’s going to look into this, but I can tell you we know already—because the UK Labour Chancellor’s decision is that employers are going to foot the bill to fill that black hole, rather than get billionaires to shoulder that burden—it is going to impact the services available to those people who need support in Wales and need the most support. Nineteen Citizens Advice organisations in Wales say that they are dismayed by this decision and are going to struggle to meet the increased cost from already stretched and often declining budgets. For the largest of their organisations, the new cost will be up to £180,000. They’ve told us they’re waiting to hear the outcome of their bids to the Welsh Government for the single advice fund that currently funds their services, and the bidding window for that closed two weeks ago. Given that staff costs make up 80 per cent of their budget, to now find that each member of staff is now going to cost around £800 more per annum is obviously going to impact their planned provision. Businesses have more scope to absorb some of this extra cost—they can cut profits, they can borrow.

Commissioned services like Citizens Advice—

Can you ask your question, please?

—have, in their words, no buffer against this impact. So, what assessment have you made of the impact on these crucial services and their ability to retain and recruit staff? Will the Welsh Government be forced to step in to mitigate this damaging and seemingly unaccounted for effect of the UK Chancellor’s decision?

Well, we are still working through the impact of the Chancellor’s announcement, and obviously we’ll be coming out with our budget proposals by December. What I’m anxious to repeat is that 2 per cent of businesses will be paying three quarters of the amount raised through national insurance. When you suggest that national insurance will go up, that is true, but it will be compensated by that uplift in the allowance, which is not an insignificant uplift, which will make a difference to many, many organisations in the third sector in Wales.

Questions now from the party leaders. First of all, the leader of the Welsh Conservatives, Andrew R.T. Davies.

Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer. First Minister, last week's budget was a budget of broken promises. We saw first-hand—[Interruption.] I thought that would get a reaction. [Interruption.] I thought that would get a reaction—

Andrew—. I would like to hear the question, please, as would the public, so please allow—. Please allow the question to be asked.

It's nice to see they've found their voice after many weeks of sitting in silence.

It was a budget of broken promises and brutal betrayal. When you look at the agricultural community and the change in agricultural property relief, when the Department for Environment Food and Rural Affairs Secretary said in the run-up to the general election there were no plans to change agricultural property relief, when the Prime Minister himself said that there were no plans to change agricultural property relief, do you understand the anger, the concern and the fear that farmers and those dependent on the agricultural industry feel when they have been so bitterly betrayed by your party?

Before the First Minister answers, it is proper that we listen to the question and we listen to the answers without the noise that I'm hearing in the Chamber from all sides. There were noises and conversations going on between parties and Members. So, let's make sure the questions are heard in quiet and answers are heard in quiet. 

Well, I can't believe you've started off talking about broken promises—your party, after what you did to this nation. I'll tell you about broken promises. Talk to the people in Tata. You said that there was £80 million to help support the people in Tata. You hadn't budgeted for it—you hadn't budgeted for it. The UK Labour Government have and they will honour that commitment that you just made up without honouring anything within the budget priority, part of the £22 billion black hole you left for the Labour Government.

When you talk about—[Interruption.] When you talk about the issue in relation to farmers, let me just be clear that we are very aware of the significant contribution that farmers make to Wales economically, socially and environmentally. It is important, I think, that we underline that. But it's also important that we don't scaremonger, because, actually, the exaggeration that you have been making—. And you scaremongered before the budget even started. I heard people from your benches saying how the fuel was going to go up and affect people in rural areas. It didn't, did it? It's scaremongering. So, stop scaremongering, because, actually, Treasury notes demonstrate that there will be a very small proportion of farmers in Wales that will be impacted by that inheritance tax. And, by the way, I think it's important you declare an interest on these issues.

First Minister, no apologies, no sense of distress at what the farming community are going to face. [Interruption.] What I am going to say to you is this is a broken promises budget, that ultimately—[Interruption.]

I know you've had a recess and you've had a week off, but I would like you to calm down, so we can hear questions being put by the leader of the opposition. I would like all Members, including opposition Members, to allow that to be heard and allow the answers to be heard. I have heard too many people this afternoon already trying to ensure their voices are heard above everyone else's. Please give the speakers and the answers respect.

Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer. The other broken promise we saw was around national insurance and the uplift in national insurance that will have such a devastating impact—an employment tax, a jobs tax that the Chancellor highlighted in opposition and so did the business Secretary. We know that many businesses will be affected by it, but also, as we've heard in your answer to previous questions, those in the charitable sector, such as hospices, and those who provide many of the primary functions in the health service, such as GPs, optometrists and pharmacists. So, what assessment has the Government made of what support they will be able to bring forward to mitigate that impact on many of the small practices that are the front door in Wales to the NHS? Because without that support, and built on the bed of broken promises from the Chancellor and the Labour Party, many of those businesses and many of those facilities will end up shutting their doors. 

This is a UK Government budget and they had to make some very tough choices. Those tough choices include the need to fix the foundations of our communities and our society, including the economy, but more importantly public services, after 14 years of Tory neglect. So, I am absolutely delighted that we have seen a significant uplift in the Welsh budget—£1.7 billion—which will make a real difference to the lives of people in our communities. I've talked about national insurance and how there's a balance to be struck there and who is likely to pay that.

But what I do know is that this is a Government who listened when we talked to them about the need for them to help us with the issue in relation to coal tip safety. Twenty-five million pounds is coming into our communities to help—[Interruption.] And when you talk about peanuts, this is money that you—[Interruption.] Your Secretary of State wouldn't even sign a letter to ask for that money to come to Wales. So, this is significant for our communities, as is, in particular, the miners' pension fund, which after years—years—has been addressed. And I'm very pleased that there will be thousands of people across Wales who will benefit from that.

First Minister, as I said to you, it's another broken promise. The Chancellor, when she was the shadow Chancellor, said that raising national insurance was a tax on jobs. The business Secretary, when he was the shadow business Secretary, said exactly the same thing. And you talk about lifting thresholds; what they did was decrease the threshold where people will start paying national insurance to £5,000. That will capture many, many people who work part-time—many, many females and women working in the charitable sector, which ultimately offers such work in the hospice movement and the charitable sector, raising money across the whole of Wales. 

But the other point that we have to think on as well is the rise in student loans and tuition fees that was announced by the Government yesterday in Westminster, despite obviously the Prime Minister, when he was racing to be the leader of the opposition at the time, saying that he was not going to raise fees and that he wanted to get rid of them. And also Bridget Phillipson, the Secretary of State for Education, saying exactly the same thing. So, you've dished it out to pensioners by getting rid of the winter fuel allowance, you're dishing it out to the students now. First Minister, can you see why the people of Wales believe that they cannot trust this Government here in Cardiff Bay or the Government in Westminster to stick to one pledge, one commitment that they've made, and they feel so bitterly betrayed by the Labour Party?

Well, they felt so betrayed by you that they turfed every one of your MPs out of Wales. There is a very, very small band of Tory MPs now sitting in Westminster. I'd like to take the opportunity to congratulate Mims Davies, the new shadow Secretary of State, who represents the seat of East Grinstead and Uckfield, whose contact with Wales is that she studied in Swansea University. So, she obviously thought that our universities in Wales were great. That's the new shadow Secretary of State for Wales. 

But let me tell you about how people are going to benefit in Wales. Pensioners: there's an increase that is bigger than the rate of the cost of living. That is going to help pensioners across Wales. And I think that it is very rich of you to talk about tuition fees, when actually you were in a situation where you did not recognise the fact that, in Wales, we have the best package of support for students across the United Kingdom. And of course we want to recognise that the whole system is under huge strain at the moment. Our support package for living costs is the highest in the UK, but obviously there is a broader question in relation to universities in terms of the financial model and the sustainability. Of course we'll need to discuss, with the UK Government, ideally, how that can be addressed, but this is an issue for us in Wales, and obviously we will be announcing our budget very shortly.

On behalf of Plaid Cymru, Delyth Jewell. 

First Minister, I'll quote some words to you:

'Losing a farm is not like losing any other business. It can't come back.'

That's what Keir Starmer told the NFU conference last year. But despite the promise that Labour wouldn't change the inheritance tax rules on agriculture, that is exactly what's happened. It's little wonder, is it, that farmers are feeling betrayed, because this new policy threatens the future of many Welsh family farms. And it isn't that policy in isolation: there's the huge increase in input costs we've seen in recent years; the disastrous effects of Brexit; the long, dark shadow of bovine TB; and ongoing uncertainty about the SFS. They are all taking their toll financially and emotionally. It's an industry in Wales made up of families, many of whom are struggling.

Will the First Minister undertake an immediate assessment, please, of the effect this decision will have on the sector in Wales, how it will affect efforts to strengthen food security, tackle the nature and climate emergencies? And to those running a family farm in Wales asking themselves whether they have a future in the sector, what does the First Minister say?

Thanks very much. I genuinely think that it is important that people look at the detail before scaremongering, because I think there's been a lot of noise around this issue. I must say—and of course we've already been assessing what we think the impact might be—our initial finding is that the vast majority of farms in Wales will not have to pay this tax. I'm sure she's been reading the detail as much as I have. The fact is that the rest of the population have to pay inheritance tax, and there is a huge allowance when it comes to the agricultural community. What we're talking about here is extremely large and wealthy farms. Obviously, we will work through the detail of this. But as a Labour Party, we are very interested also in making sure that the support is there for people who work on farms. That's why things like increasing the living wage are significant. It'll affect not just the agricultural community but people across our nation, and that will be a significant change for many people in our communities.

If you could publish that assessment, I think it could go a long way to assuaging people's concerns. So, I would welcome, please, if you could confirm if that will be published, and very shortly.

'Last week’s Budget was a missed opportunity, including for Cymru, resulting in continued austerity, inequality, poverty, and hardship for millions of people and leaving our public services at breaking point.'

Those aren't my words, but those of Beth Winter, who was, until yesterday, a Labour colleague of the First Minister. And she's right, isn't she? There was no commitment to fair funding, and so Wales's day-to-day spending settlement is less generous than that of Scotland and Northern Ireland. There was complete silence on HS2 consequentials, with Wales's comparability factor for transport shrinking from 80.9 per cent in 2015 to 33.5 per cent in 2024. And calls for the devolution of the Crown Estate were ignored again. Why are we consigned to further austerity, and why did the First Minister fail her first test to fight for what is right for Wales?

I'll tell you what, we fought and we won. We've won £25 million for our coal communities that these guys wouldn't even ask for, and so we are very pleased with that. And the fact that we're going to get the highest uplift that we've had since devolution began—£1.7 billion that is going to help to rebuild our public services. And it is important, I think, to recognise the difference that that will make to the lives of people across Wales. Austerity has ended. This is why it was really important that that change was made. So, you can't on the one hand say, 'Don't raise national insurance, don't try and put a tax on the wealthiest people in our communities' and then say, 'Oh, what are we going to do about public services?' You have to raise taxes from somewhere, and this fantasy economics that Plaid Cymru keeps on peddling is not something the public swallows.

Of course we need to raise taxes, but we need to do that on the people who have the broadest shoulders. Having a better budget than the Tories is a low bar, I would say, First Minister. Austerity is still biting cruelly on pensioners and children living in poverty. I would implore you, please: austerity, I regret, has not ended.

Last week's budget did at last concede money for coal tip safety. I welcome that, but the £25 million set aside is nowhere near what is needed. We know the finance Minister has requested £91 million over three years, but estimates tell us it could cost up to £600 million over 10 to 15 years to address these issues. Now, these coal tips stand as reminders of how Wales was exploited, how we were left with the rubbish after our wealth was taken from us. For as long as those tips exist, the shadow of that betrayal will hang over our valleys. We can't afford delays or half measures, because the risk of history repeating itself is just too awful to contemplate. So, can the First Minister set out, please, what the Welsh Government's plans are for that £25 million, and what guarantees has she had from the Chancellor that Wales will be compensated in full for the neglect our communities have suffered, and that those tips will be cleared at Westminster's expense?

Well, thanks very much, and, you're quite right, it is important that those with the broadest shoulders pay the most, which is why, actually, I think it's been very carefully worked out who in the agricultural community is likely to have to pay, whilst the rest of businesses also have to pay, don't forget, quite significant amounts of money when it comes to inheritance tax.

Now, let me talk a little about pensioners, because I think it is important to address that issue. The fact is that the pension will be going up by 4.5 per cent, which is more than the rate of inflation, so that should help them with the cost of living. As I say, the living wage has increased, which will make a huge difference to thousands of people in our communities.

And when it comes to coal tip safety, then we are pleased that this is the beginning, and we are hoping that more will come in the future, and obviously we'll continue those negotiations with the UK Government. But it's not just about that; there are other people who are going to benefit from this budget in Wales. I'm particularly pleased to see that those who suffered as a result of contaminated blood will actually get compensated; so will those who were affected by the Horizon scandal. And, again, the Tories didn't put any of that money into the budget to pay for those, so I'm very pleased that those people will now get the compensation that they deserve.

The budget will have a positive impact across Wales. People on the national living wage will see an increase to £12.21, and public services will breathe a sigh of relief at the end of austerity. Funding for our city and growth deal and investment zones will help to drive growth.

First Minister, coming from a farming family, I know the strain that these changes to inheritance tax agricultural property relief will have on my region's farmers and Welsh farmers as a whole. We should be here safeguarding our family-run farms that operate on modest incomes. Labour are hitting the working people of the countryside. As my leader said, you promised not to touch it, and farmers feel betrayed. A tax hit on farms worth over £1 million will burden families with crippling costs, risking a generational loss in Welsh agriculture. It will mean food being imported or produced by industrial firms instead of local families. First Minister, today, you and your Welsh Labour colleagues have a choice: will you continue to toe the line of your UK Labour Party and support this budget, a budget that will wreak havoc on Welsh agriculture, or will you stand up and speak out for Wales and its farmers and demonstrate that this Senedd will put the interests of Welsh farmers above the interests of the Westminster Labour Party?

It's quite remarkable. If you haven't looked at the detail of this, you need to, because I do think that many people in agricultural communities have been misled. So, even after the budget, the first £1 million of combined businesses and agricultural assets will continue to receive 100 per cent relief in most cases. After this, they're going to have to pay inheritance tax at 20 per cent, compared to the rest of us, who have to pay 40 per cent. A married couple owning a farm together can split it in two, so that means they've got £2 million—not £1 million; £2 million—of agricultural property relief, plus another £500,000 for each partner if property's involved. So, you get up to about £3 million. Well, yes, there may be some people in Wales who earn that amount of money and have that kind of wealth within their farms. And, by the way, they are allowed to pay it over a long period of time. So, I do think that the people of Wales are listening and they are hearing you support and protect the very, very rich people, the richest people in our society.

Alun Davies.

I'm grateful, Deputy Presiding Officer. I'm sure the First Minister agrees with me that we don't need lectures from fans of Liz Truss when it comes to debating these matters.

The people of Blaenau Gwent welcomed the budget last week, and welcomed many of the provisions that were contained in it. One of those provisions is, of course, ensuring that future money that we lost through Brexit is delivered back to this place and then delivered to Blaenau Gwent. I'd like to invite the First Minister to Blaenau Gwent to discuss how we can invest that funding in the economic future of the Heads of the Valleys and, in doing so, I'd like to discuss with the First Minister how we can invest in building business units and industrial units across the A465, now dualled by this Government, and ensure that we can create jobs and work in the Heads of the Valleys.

Thanks very much, Alun, and what I can tell you is that this was a budget for investment. We have to stabilise the economy. It was important after years of neglect, after years of mismanagement of the economy by Liz Truss and Rishi Sunak and others over a long period of time. What people need is some stability, and the best thing for the people in Blaenau Gwent is to see that stability, to see investment come in, and of course now what we need is to make sure that those people in that area are prepared and are equipped to take advantage of jobs when they come in. Now, what is important, I think, in places like Ebbw Vale, is that we develop the opportunities for businesses to come in, and that includes, for example, a property development plan, and I'm really pleased that there's been a new completed development—50,000 sq ft of industrial units at Rhyd y Blew in Ebbw Vale, and there are advanced discussions with potential tenants. So, real opportunities there, and also, of course, in relation to Tech Valleys.

The Welsh Government is proud to deliver a range of support for veterans in Wales, including a specific mental health treatment pathway, prosthetics support for veterans affected by limb loss, and funding of armed forces liaison officers, who work with veterans and support organisations in communities across Wales.

Thank you very much for that response, First Minister.

Obviously, we're in the annual remembrance period now, where we rightly remember, reflect and recognise all who've served and those who've made the ultimate sacrifice as well. Today I'd like to raise support for the LGBT veterans community, in particular those whose lives were absolutely devastated by the so-called 'gay ban'. I'm really privileged to have the opportunity to work with the LGBT veterans charity, Fighting with Pride, not least on the Etherton review, but also to talk to them when they visited Eryri. To hear the impact of that gay ban on people's lives, their livelihoods, and the toll it was still taking was absolutely heartbreaking. The review last year by Lord Etherton had 49 recommendations, one of which was an apology from the British state, and another was compensation to be made. The LGBT veterans compensation scheme is reckoned at £50 million, but that works out at around £2,500 per veteran, which really doesn't go as far as it needs to. The apology has happened under the previous UK Government, but we're still waiting for compensation. I know the UK Labour Party was supportive, and John Healey MP actually said it was unfinished business for Labour. So, Prif Weinidog, can I ask what discussions Welsh Government has had with the now UK Government on this, and if you would raise further this with the UK Government to right these historical wrongs for people that wanted to serve their country, but were badly let down by it?

Thanks very much, and it will be an honour for me to be present, as the First Minister, at the national Remembrance Day service on the weekend to pay my personal tribute to veterans and those who died fighting for our country. Hannah, I know how supportive you've been and how active you've been in this space, in particular I know you've got a really positive relationship with Fighting with Pride, and I know that you're very keen to see this. I think there are good levels of support for the Pride in Veterans Standard. I think there are about 30 organisations signed up in Wales, out of 230 across the United Kingdom. I know that Ruth Birch is a brilliant advocate for LGBTQ veterans and she's working very hard through Wales and Fighting with Pride. The UK Government plans for a redress compensation scheme are due to be published in the new year, and I think that will be an important milestone.

Thank you for that answer, First Minister. I would also like to associate myself with the comments and calls made by Hannah Blythyn. Can I return, though, if I may, to Veterans' NHS Wales, a service that we're very proud to have here in Wales? But, as a cross-party group on the armed forces and cadets, we've been looking at the service and whether there's anything that can be done to improve it. One of the improvements that's been suggested to us is the need to embed peer mentors within those services across the whole of Wales. At the moment, there's an inconsistent approach to the use of peer mentors directly by the NHS, and that, I believe, means that some people get a better service than others in some parts of the country, which obviously none of us want to be the case.

From speaking with Dr Neil Kitchener, who of course is responsible for leading that service, he reckons that just £0.5 million would be sufficient to make sure that that gold-standard service, with peer mentors, could be available in every part of Wales. And given the fact that next year marks the eightieth anniversary of the end of the second world war, I feel that it would be an appropriate time to place that investment within this service. Is that something that the Welsh Government will consider?

We're in the process of working out the impact of that additional £1.7 billion, which covers of course two years, not just this year, and let's just be clear that quite a lot of the money that has been earmarked for this year has already been spent giving that uplift to public sector workers. But I'm very proud of the fact that, actually, we give significant support to veterans in Wales, in particular mental health support—£920,000, which is not an insignificant amount of money. I'm not aware of the peer mentoring, so I'll go away and look at that and see how that would work and how effective it is, but what I do know is that the veterans commissioner has written a report and has said that, in terms of an overall assessment of Wales and how we treat veterans, Wales remains a pretty good place to be a veteran and I think that is real praise.

We've invested over £100 million in actions that directly contribute to tackling the nature emergency. This includes our Nature Networks, Local Places for Nature and national peatland action programmes. We're also developing legally binding targets to increase the resilience of habitats and the species dependent upon them.

Thank you for that answer, but last week scientists announced that over a third of the world's trees are facing extinction in the wild. That's truly alarming news, which could have far-reaching consequences in terms of biodiversity loss, not just for the tree species but for all the life that they sustain. According to official extinction red lists, the number of trees at risk of extinction now outweighs all threatened mammals, birds, amphibians and reptiles combined. So, could I ask, First Minister—? I'm keen to know what assessment the Welsh Government have made of that data from scientists, and what role the Welsh Government can play in helping to address this particular crisis.

Well, thanks very much, Joyce, and thanks for your work in championing the world of nature and in bringing my attention to all these wonderful facts that you have at your fingertips and it really is quite fascinating, and in particular in relation to the risk to trees.

Now, you're quite right that that report set out the risks in relation to trees and extinction. My understanding is that whilst globally the biggest risk factor to trees is from logging and deforestation for crops, in the United Kingdom the biggest threat comes from plant diseases, including, for example, larch trees, and we've seen a particular type of disease affecting them. So, we'll shortly be launching our woodland restoration scheme to support landowners to restore woodlands that have been affected by the presence of this disease, but I think it is important that our ‘Woodlands for Wales’ strategy makes sure that trees are managed sustainably and our woodland ecosystems are healthy and are resilient.

One hundred million pounds is a lot of money and let’s hope that it goes where it should do, to actually stop the nature decline in species that we’re seeing. Wales has seen now that freshwater species populations have declined by 20 per cent, with over 2 per cent of assessed species now extinct, and that’s including 11 bird species.

At lunch time, I was proud to attend and speak at a Friends of the Earth Cymru event to celebrate their fortieth anniversary. They look to us as politicians, and you as a Government, to stop paying lip service to your climate and nature recovery emergency. In the last climate change report, Lord Deben himself raised his concerns about marine conservation. Environmental governance doesn’t even exist in Wales.

The evidence is clear to me and to many others working really hard to look after our nature recovery, and actually bring about actions to protect these species. Given the spend you have allocated to the climate change budget and to this in particular, will you work closely with other Members in this Senedd, so that that £100 million doesn’t just go and is wasted, as we often see with Welsh Government money, but it actually does what it says it’s supposed to do and we stop the nature decline here in Wales? Diolch.

Thanks very much. I hope you understand how significant and how important the Well-being of Future Generations (Wales) Act 2015 is to this Government. This Government is very serious about it. It is, I think, one of the proudest achievements of this Government to have brought forward an Act that actually understands our responsibility for the next generation, and that includes to the environment and nature. And that’s why I think £100 million is not an insignificant sum, and I’m very pleased that the national peatland action programme has restored 3,000 hectares of peatland and we’ve met our target a year early, so this is how seriously we are taking it, and it's something we should be very, very proud of.

I think that we should be aware of the impact that messing about with nature has on our environment and our society. We’ve all been looking at the scenes in Valencia with horror, and all of that is related to climate change, and I know that many of us will be watching with a lot of anxiety this evening as the results from the United States come in. We’ll all be watching with bated breath the outcome of that election, which will have a profound effect on Wales and the world. There will be an impact on climate change, depending on who wins, and it will impact on all of us. So, the importance of our protecting nature in Wales is well understood. I do hope that the people of the United States understand their responsibilities as well in that space.

The UK budget is a welcome investment in Wales, in its people, in its communities, local businesses and public services. It represents the first steps towards fixing 14 years of austerity and financial mismanagement, which have starved our public services of much-needed investment.

Diolch. I understand that a huge proportion of Welsh Government's budget is spent on public services, and as a county councillor for over a decade, under the cloud of austerity, watching the budget year upon year, and now as a Member of the Senedd on committees, when we hear about services and organisations at breaking point and the demand for services, it actually feels that now there is hope breaking through, and light breaking through that cloud of austerity. And with public services employing so many people in Wales—it's a huge employer—it's so important that that money comes through. First Minister, do you agree that by investing in the building blocks, so that people can have access to transport, education, health, housing and well-being services, such as arts, culture and all these things that can improve health outcomes, that we are helping to rebuild our Welsh economy and health outcomes for the people of Wales?

Thanks very much, Carolyn. After 14 years of austerity and poor economic mismanagement, the Chancellor had to make some tough choices. She has decided to make sure that she fixes the foundations. We have seen the greatest increase that we've seen in the Welsh budget in decades: £1.7 billion over two years. We have seen a commitment by the UK Government of £25 million to help clear our coal tips; £80 million to be spent to support the Tata workers; two hydrogen projects supported; miners' pensions supported; the national living wage uplifted; contaminated blood compensation; Horizon scandal compensation; an increase in pension; and fuel duty frozen. That is the difference that a Labour Government makes in the United Kingdom.

State, personal and occupational pensions are a reserved matter to the UK Government. However, we recognise that Allied Steel and Wire pensioners are not receiving the pension value that they had anticipated, and we have consistently urged successive UK Governments to address this issue.

Diolch yn fawr, Prif Weinidog. Since your appointment as Prif Weinidog, you have often given us lessons on the devolution settlement. This includes encouraging us to write to Westminster regarding reserved matters. Well, following a very constructive meeting with ASW campaigners, Jack Sargeant wrote to the UK pensions Minister on 19 September. At the end of last month, he was yet to receive a reply. I wrote to Keir Starmer regarding this matter in March 2023, and then the shadow pensions Minister in November 2023. I have yet to receive a reply. ASW campaigners, some of which are in the public gallery today, have written several letters to Westminster politicians without a reply. They feel let down by all London-based parties, but they feel especially betrayed by the Labour Party, a party founded to support working people and a party they voted for and supported for decades. The writing of letters clearly isn't working. Can you give them hope today, Prif Weinidog, that their injustice will finally come to an end? Diolch yn fawr.

Can I pay tribute to the workers in Allied Steel and Wire that I know have been fighting this cause for a very long time? Obviously, the last Labour Government introduced a financial assistance scheme that did go some way to correcting a wrong, but it didn't go far enough, and that's why I am very pleased that Jack Sargeant is still making the case and still fighting and making sure that the cause continues and that we speak up for that injustice that was done. It is important, I think, that we continue to make the case for full compensation. I know Jack will continue to do that, and I will support him in that cause.

And finally, question 8, Luke Fletcher.

The supply of medicines is a reserved matter and is the responsibility of the UK Government. We expect the current disruption in the supply of ADHD medicines to be resolved by January 2025.

Thank you for that answer, First Minister.

And it's welcome to hear a rough timeline of when this could be resolved, because a number of constituents in Bridgend have contacted me, raising concerns about these acute shortages of ADHD medication impacting on their ability to get them. This is important, because untreated ADHD carries substantial costs, not only for individuals and their families, but also for the broader economy. Recent European studies highlight ADHD's economic toll at a per capita cost of just over €20,000 per person each year.

Now, this shortage is forcing many to ration, switch or go without medication altogether, placing many of my constituents at risk. Of course, medication supply is a UK responsibility, but managing the disruption falls upon the Welsh Government, so could the First Minister, therefore, update us on how the Welsh Government is actually working with its partners to secure ongoing access to these essential medications until, of course, that is resolved?

Well, thanks very much. I know that this disruption in the supply of medicines is extremely concerning for those who need them, the people, their families, their carers and the clinicians, also, who are overseeing their care. But there's been a massive increase in demand globally for these medicines. We've tried to keep people in touch regularly; there's been a new website that opened in September to make sure that people are aware of where the shortages are. The Welsh Government is very aware of this. As I explained, it's a reserved issue, medicines, so it's up to the UK Government to fix this problem, and we've been told that that disruption is expected to be resolved in January. I think it's really important to manage expectations around this as well.

I am also pleased to report that there has been a huge increase in demand, but we've managed to increase the money going into the neurodivergent improvement programme. There's a £12 million uplift that we announced, which is going up, which is not an insignificant amount, up until March 2025. So, that is a significant uplift, because we know that the number of people requiring this additional support is increasing rapidly.

Thank you, First Minister.

During the questioning, Alun Davies asked for a point of order to be raised. Alun Davies.

I'm grateful to you, Deputy Presiding Officer. During questions, at least two Conservative Members raised issues with the First Minister, where they clearly have a personal interest. No personal interest was declared, as Standing Orders and the code of conduct demand. I therefore ask for a ruling.

Well, Members will be aware that the Standing Orders do require a relevant interest to be declared where it might reasonably be thought by others to influence the Member's contribution to the debate or the discussion. It is the responsibility of individual Members to judge whether an interest relates sufficiently to these particular proceedings to require a declaration. It is not my responsibility to rule on these matters, advise or give a conclusive view on whether a declaration is required or not. That's the ruling.

Item 2 is questions to the Counsel General and Minister for Delivery. Question 1, Alun Davies.

Thank you, Alun. The First Minister set out the Government’s priorities in her statement on 17 September. It remains the responsibility of the relevant portfolio Cabinet Secretaries to lead the delivery of these priorities. My role provides my Cabinet colleagues with additional support, brings people together and finds innovative ways to drive that delivery.

I'm grateful to the Counsel General for that response. I should say how pleased I was to see her appointment as well. The burden of my question was really that a Minister for Delivery, I think, is a very, very good thing, but what does that Minister do and how do they do it, is really what I'm asking here. Since you've clarified in that answer that we will be holding Cabinet Secretaries and Ministers to account for delivering on the objectives that have been set for them by the First Minister, then my question to you is: how then do we hold you to account? And how then do we question how you are delivering your responsibilities as the Minister for Delivery?

For instance, certainly when I served in Carwyn Jones's Cabinet, there was a delivery unit and that worked with all Ministers seeking to help deliver policy objectives. Does that exist today? Is there a machinery within Government within which you will work? Is there a structure within which you will work? And what issues can we question you on in terms of the delivery of Government objectives, if the individual Ministers are accountable for delivering their own objectives?

Yes. That's a very good question, Alun. So, there is a Cabinet office inside the Welsh Government and that Cabinet office works to the First Minister, and my role is to assist that Cabinet office in its functions. It is to make sure that the Cabinet office adequately supports other Ministers and to make sure that they're able to prioritise particularly important delivery points. It's to make sure that the programme for government runs smoothly, and it's to make sure that the Welsh Government delivers on its manifesto commitments, as we always seek to do. We’re a Government that recognises the value of working in partnership together to make meaningful progress at pace on the priorities of the people of Wales. And you’ll know from your time in Government that we are a collaborative Government, with collective Cabinet responsibility, and, obviously, I’m a member of the Cabinet, and I have that collective responsibility as well.

We also have to operate in a challenging financial context, and so it’s my role to assist Ministers to come to the right conclusion around how to prioritise the very difficult choices, in conjunction with the First Minister, so that, together, we can make those collaborative, collective decisions that help us deliver for the people of Wales.

Yes, as a Cabinet, we welcome the significant investment announced in the UK budget and the additional funding this will bring to Wales. The Cabinet Secretary for Finance and Welsh Language will provide more detail later today, and we are working through its impact on delivery of the priorities as part of the preparations for our draft budget.

Thank you, Counsel General and Minister for Delivery. One of the four Welsh Government priorities the First Minister committed the Welsh Government to was driving forward progress in green jobs and growth, creating green jobs that tackle the climate crisis and restore nature, while making families better off and accelerating planning decisions to grow the Welsh economy. There is one sector more than any other that provides over 50,000 green jobs, supports families the length and breadth of Wales, and helps sustain and enhance our environment, and that is agriculture. Your colleagues in London have, without doubt, launched an assault on the future of family farms. Jo Stevens MP, Secretary of State for Wales, is wrong when she claims that the new inheritance tax rules will only impact the wealthiest farmers. Ask the National Farmers Union Cymru, the Farmers Union of Wales, Gareth Wyn Jones, if you don’t believe me.

What discussions will you have with UK and Welsh Government colleagues about the detrimental impact that inheritance tax rules are set to have on your ability to deliver on the green jobs and growth priority that you have set yourselves? Diolch.

Well, I just fundamentally disagree with your characterisation of what’s happened in the UK budget. I don’t think, as the First Minister just said in First Minister’s questions, that it’s helpful at all to do the kind of scaremongering that you’ve just done. It affects very few—very few—farms in Wales, and as it happens, the Cabinet only yesterday had a long and involved discussion about the sustainable farming scheme, which my colleague the Deputy First Minister has been working on across the farming communities of Wales for a very considerable time, over a large number of months. It’s been perfectly possible to work in harmony with that sector, because the sector, as the First Minister just said in her questions, is fundamental to the economy of Wales, to the social and cultural value of Wales and to the fabric of Wales. We absolutely recognise that, and the forthcoming and extremely generous sustainable farming scheme will no doubt underline that commitment.

I now call on the party spokespeople. First of all, the Conservative spokesperson, Mark Isherwood.

Diolch. When I questioned you here last month, I asked what engagement you’re having with the Law Society in Wales regarding their calls for both improved data on the Welsh legal sector and for Wales to match England’s offer of a level 7 legal apprenticeship. In your reply, you stated you would be having these discussions. In England level 7 legal apprenticeships offer an alternative route to becoming a fully qualified solicitor without the need for a traditional university degree. In Wales, however, level 7 legal apprenticeships are currently not available. Welsh firms are having to compete with higher-paying firms across the border in England, which attract a lot of young talent in Wales. Level 7 apprenticeships could help to mitigate our ageing solicitor population, as recommended in the 2019 Jomati review, commissioned by the then Welsh Government. Their introduction in Wales could, then, also help increase the number of solicitors in areas where there are currently advice deserts. So, what discussions have you now had, or will you be having with the Law Society and Cabinet members about introducing level 7 apprenticeships in Wales?

Thank you for the question, Mark—it’s a very important question. I have now met with the Law Society. I actually met with them just very shortly after the last question session. We had a long discussion, a very useful discussion, about level 7 apprenticeships, alongside other training issues for the legal profession in Wales. You may know that the legal profession is just transitioning between the old system and the new solicitors qualifying examination system, for example, and we're not yet sure of the impact of that. I'm awaiting a paper from the Law Society, which they're very happy to share with me, I know, on what they consider to be the best way to look at deploying level 7 apprenticeships. I'm also in conversation with my Cabinet colleague on our skills agenda, to see whether there's anything that can be done to make those two programmes come together in some kind of synergy. So, we're very actively working on it. I do think, though, that the advice desert that you speak of, which is definitely evident, is also a function of the absolutely parlous state of the legal system, and, in particular, legal aid, which was absolutely decimated by the last Conservative Government, and will take many decades to recover.

Thank you. I'm here articulating the calls by the Law Society, trying to avoid partisan comments.

But continuing with your discussions with Cabinet Members as Counsel General, Action for Children published the findings to the Jay review of criminally exploited children in March of this year, an extensive UK-wide review of exploitation, led by Alexis Jay CBE. Last month their first follow-up report on the review, 'I don't want to go down that road', examines the extent of the harms caused to exploited children across the UK by using safeguarding incident data from their criminal exploitation services. They've made three recommendations for immediate change at Welsh Government level to ensure criminally exploited young people are effectively safeguarded and supported: investment in targeted exploitation prevention and support services for exploited young people; exploitation recognised as a distinct form of child abuse; and a welfare-first approach in the management of offences committed by exploited children. Given your statements on devolution of youth justice and probation, what discussions are you therefore having with Action for Children and Cabinet colleagues regarding these?

Thank you, Mark. It's a very important point and a very important report as well. So, I have had a very recent discussion with my colleagues the Cabinet Secretary for Social Justice and the Deputy First Minister around the further devolution of youth justice. We do think that the further devolution of youth justice would largely help us address some of the issues you mention, because it does allow for a better alignment of Welsh Government policy, social policy in particular, with regard to children and exploited people more generally than the current system does. And we will be taking that forward, between the three of us, actually, in various aspects, in discussing it with both UK Government Ministers and in considering the outcome of the report. The Welsh Government will consider the report very carefully and see what we can do with our current powers, of course. We are very concerned to make sure that criminally exploited children are safeguarded within the system. But I can assure you that it remains our very firm view that the devolution of youth justice would be a very significant step towards us being able to deal with that.

Well, let's hope so. But, again, continuing with your discussions with Cabinet Members as Counsel General, the Law Commission for England and Wales is currently reviewing the law on social care for disabled children in England, seeking to make the social care system for families with disabled children fairer, simpler and up to date. Disability charities and my own casework confirm that problems, including overlapping assessments, confusion and inefficiency, postcode lottery to access services, and blurring between child protection and need, are clearly replicated in Wales. What engagement are you therefore having with the Law Commission for England and Wales regarding their current review of the law on social care for disabled children in England? And what, if any, discussions are you having with Cabinet colleagues in the context of this?

We're not currently having any discussion that I'm aware of with the Law Commission on this point. We have been discussing as a Cabinet the various issues around conflicting policy areas, and that will continue. I will write to you, Mark, about whether we have any specific engagement with the Law Commission on this point, because I'm not aware of it if we do. However, we do have a more general conversation with the Law Commission about the state of the law in Wales and some of the work they're doing in the other jurisdictions, to see if any of it is relevant to Wales. And I can certainly report back to you on that as part of the exchange of correspondence.

Plaid Cymru spokesperson, Adam Price.

Thank you, Dirprwy Lywydd. Counsel General, you will be aware of the reports of the past few days that show the significant money being made by the royal family through the duchies of Cornwall and Lancaster from the public sector, and also, of course, the significant money being generated in Wales through the Crown Estate, which goes to the Treasury, unfortunately, at the moment. Because of that, many authorities in Wales either have or are in the process of deciding—Gwynedd, Carmarthenshire, for example—to open negotiations with the Crown Estate to release themselves from the obligations to pay taxes so that the people of Wales can access their own lands. The Welsh Government pays rent through Cadw to the Crown Estate at the moment. Is there any legal reason why the Welsh Government couldn’t emulate what some local authorities in Wales have done to ask the Crown Estate to release us from the requirement to pay that rent to access our own land and our own country?

Thank you very much for that question, Adam. I’m not aware, I’m afraid, of whether the Welsh Government has had that specific discussion on the Crown Estate. I will make enquiries and come back to you. We are of course still looking to see what aspects of the Crown Estate could be devolved to Wales and are actually seeking a bigger role in the way that the Crown Estate operates in Wales. I have to say, in my previous roles, I’ve found the Crown Estate to be very willing to have a conversation with us about making sure that they are doing a very good job for Wales in Wales and not just the UK as a homogenous whole. I’m not aware, I’m afraid, of any specific discussions around that. Nor am I actually aware of any specific obligations we have to pay such funding to the Crown Estate, so I’ll have to come back to you on that.

The Welsh Government currently is paying rent to the Crown Estate, so I would urge you to take the same moral stance that Gwynedd and hopefully Carmarthenshire will do.

In terms of The Sunday Times and Dispatches report, it did demonstrate that the duchies of Cornwall and Lancaster have a number of holdings in Wales. I didn't know this, but they apparently own Ogmore castle and 4,000 acres around it and they have a number of mining rights in Wales. Your predecessor as Counsel General had been transparent on the process of having to have Crown consent for legislation that touched upon the interests of the Crown. Channel 4 and The Sunday Times have demonstrated that many of these holdings are tax free. So, can I ask you, Counsel General, to confirm whether Crown consent has been given in terms of any of these holdings, which would mean that they don’t have a responsibility to pay devolved taxes here in Wales?

There are several different versions of Crown consent, just to be really clear. We do seek Crown consent where we’re making legislation that impacts on the rights and obligations of the Crown. We’re in communication with them on the other issues, I think. There is a slight difference there. My predecessor is sitting right behind me and is telling me that it was consultation rather than consent in the specific issue that you’re talking about. I am very well aware that the Crown Estate owns quite significant holdings across Wales, actually as do a number of other people—the Church in Wales, for example, and the Church of England in Wales as well. So, we do have occasional need to correspond and get into collaborative discussions with large landowners in Wales because of various interests of the Welsh people. It’s been my experience personally—I’ve not yet had the experience in this role, Adam, but it’s been my previous experience personally that they’ve been very helpful and collaborative in those conversations.

The question is, of course: whatever the process, consultation or not, have they been relieved of the responsibility to pay Welsh taxes in relation to their holdings and properties in Wales? If you don't know the answer now, perhaps you could write to me and share that with the Senedd.

Turning to the Crown Estate, and I ask you in relation to your responsibility to keep an oversight of UK legislation, the Crown Estate Bill is currently being discussed in the House of Lords this afternoon. There is one amendment tabled to devolve the Crown Estate to Wales. There is another that would at least create a commissioner for Wales and also states that that individual would only be appointed following consultation with Welsh Government Ministers. If that amendment is passed, is the Government willing to make a commitment here that you will consult with the Senedd before making any decision on the appointment of that commissioner? 

I'm aware of those amendments going through. I'm very happy to say, of course, that we'll consult with the Senedd. That's a very different thing from Senedd approval. But of course, any Government Minister who is dealing with the appointment of a commissioner for Wales on the Crown Estate—which we'd very much welcome, by the way—would consult with the Senedd about it. 

Certainly. The Welsh Government lays legislative consent motions in the Senedd in accordance with Standing Order 29, and is guided by the Cabinet principles on UK Bills when deciding whether to recommend consent to UK Bills.

I'm grateful to the Counsel General for that response. She and I have had a number of what I think she would call 'spirited conversations' on these matters over the years. It's entirely natural and to be expected that, with a Labour Government now in the United Kingdom, there could be a demand for more legislative consent motions, because there is large-scale agreement in terms of values, approaches and priorities between the two Governments. So, delivering legislation through a legislative consent motion could become an easier option, if you like, for this Government.

But it would, of course, have the impact of bypassing this Parliament and bypassing Welsh democracy, and that is really difficult for all of us. Certainly, I think there are many of us on all sides of the Chamber who, whilst we would agree with the legislation the Government would seek to enact, would want that legislation to go through this Parliament and not through the UK Parliament in Westminster to achieve its objectives.

Would it be possible, therefore, for the Counsel General to give this some consideration, some thought, so that we can avoid clashes and conflicts in this Chamber and in committees, and ensure that we have a process and a structure in place that goes beyond what is in place at present? Where the Government sees an opportunity and believes that they can legislate, there would be goodwill, I believe, on all sides of this Chamber if the Government were to seek to use this Parliament to deliver that legislation, rather than a consent motion to avoid all scrutiny and send it up the M4. 

Thank you, Alun. We absolutely do start from the position that legislation in devolved areas should be made in the Senedd, with accessibility of the law being one of the principles underpinning that. You know from previous conversations that we've had that I am very keen to make sure that that does happen. Any decision to agree to provision being made in a UK Bill in line with our principles will involve an analysis of the various factors, including accessibility, but also the potential benefits of bringing forward provision as set out in the principles. There is a capacity issue occasionally. Because of the speed with which the UK legislation is passing, it's not always possible to replicate the provisions in a suitable legislative vehicle here and a decision has to be made about whether the people of Wales would best benefit from something being made in that way.

But we do seek—and I really do hope, and with this current Government, certainly, all the signs are there—to make sure that any such UK Bill is passed with full cognisance of the devolution settlement, with all of the correct processes in place for Welsh Ministers to make decisions, not Secretaries of State, and to make sure that, therefore, any secondary legislation is done with the full scrutiny of the Senedd through one of the processes that we were discussing only yesterday in the committee, in fact. So, I do agree entirely with that. I think it's one of the things that the Future Senedd Committee, which the Deputy Presiding Officer is chairing, is very interested in looking at as well. But, unfortunately, there will always be, because of the speed with which some legislation comes forward, the need to make sure that the people of Wales don't fall further behind in their ability to take advantage of the legislation.

The only other area where I think it's worth considering is that there are, occasionally, Bills that go through the UK Parliament where it's absolutely essential that there's a single market across the UK, because Wales is just simply not big enough to be able to develop a market on its own and we would very seriously lose out if that market wasn't universal. I think, in those circumstances, it's almost always going to be the case that the UK Government will legislate, but, again, with the right devolution-proof settlement in place with Welsh Ministers able to make the regulatory framework that goes with those Bills to make sure that that can be scrutinsed here. 

Thank you for that question, Mick. Access to justice is fundamental to the rule of law and it is in real peril in many areas. It is of course largely a reserved area. The previous UK Government left office with multiple urgent issues, all of which need to be addressed.

Counsel General, after 14 years of disastrous Tory Governments, the justice system is on a precipice, close to collapse. Access to justice is as much about the better delivery of justice, particularly in the areas of youth justice and probation, where the overwhelming majority of the functions of that system are already devolved. Can I just ask you: in accordance with the recommendations of the Gordon Brown report, the Thomas commission report, the independent commission and so on, what progress is being made in discussions with the UK Government over the devolution of youth justice and probation?

Thank you very much, Mick. I just want to start by saying that, of course, we're not starting from scratch, and I'm very grateful that we're able to build on the work that you started when you were Counsel General and Minister for the Constitution, as well as the wealth of expertise from groups such as the Welsh Centre for Crime and Social Justice. As you'd expect, and as I've already mentioned, my colleague the Cabinet Secretary for Social Justice and the Deputy First Minister have already met, and we're about to have yet another meeting on Thursday, I think, to discuss taking forward those issues. We very much welcome the manifesto commitment on exploring the devolution of youth justice and probation services, and, as you'd expect, we're having a conversation with the UK Government on a range of matters around that area.

I have to say, though, that one of the things that I'm looking forward to is the law officers meeting, which is happening in Edinburgh at the end of this month, where I do plan to raise the parlous position of legal aid and legal aid practices. We know that there is an advice desert. Pretty much nowhere west of Swansea, really, has any kind of access to criminal justice, and the decimation of legal aid services is largely responsible for that. Many of the practices in rural areas of Wales relied on legal aid in order to develop the specialist services that they also provided. They're not able to make enough money off the specialist services without the legal aid provision. So, it has been absolutely catastrophic, the decision to restrict legal aid in the way that it's been done. So, I am looking forward to pushing that agenda, and I know that the current UK Government has that very much at heart. 

Diolch, Delyth. The most effective way of implementing extended producer responsibility for packaging is on a UK-wide basis due to the flows of packaging and packaging waste across borders. The scheme will enable consistency across the UK while enabling Wales to build on its performance as second in the world for recycling.

Thank you for that. I'm sure that we would all in the Chamber agree with the principle that the company that pollutes should pay for the pollution—the polluter pays principle, as we say in English. But I'd be eager to know if law officers have expressed any concerns about any precedent that may be set by the way in which Westminster legislates in devolved areas on this issue. I would like to know what assessment the Government has made about how this can affect exactly what you talked about, the performance of Wales internationally, the fact that we're ranked second in the world for recycling. Is there a risk here that we could be dragged down the table as a result of Westminster's inflexibility and stubborness, and what can we do to prevent that from happening?

Diolch, Delyth. That was certainly an issue with the previous Government. In my previous role, I had a very large number of very frustrating discussions with the previous UK Government on this and their inability, really, to see quite how far in advance Wales was and what the effect of that might be. I've had the opportunity to discuss this with the Deputy First Minister, who is now involved in those discussions, and I think it's fair to say that we've got a different attitude, that the scheme administrator will be very cognisant of the different arrangements in each of the different countries. There's recognition that England has a long way to catch up with us, or indeed a large number of other places, and that we will certainly not be able to sign up to something that doesn't make sure that Wales maintains its global lead.

And in all honesty, we don't want to go backwards, so the statutory instruments that come forward will have to be sure that the scheme administrator both collects and distributes the right level of funding in Wales to make sure that we can maintain our current practices, and you'll know we've just had the workplace recycling regulations, for example, which play into this. I know my colleague the Deputy First Minister has also been having conversations on the deposit-return scheme, for example, making sure that Wales has a specific position there.

So, we are very well aware, both with my legal hat on and with our policy hats on—we're working in combination to make sure that the SIs that come forward properly reflect the way that the scheme administrator will be set up and run on a four-nation basis. Although it's going to be hosted, unless this has changed very recently, by the Ministry, it will be separate to the Ministry and run on a four-nation basis, with every one of those nations having a say in how that administrator operates, and the SIs that come forward on a four-nation basis will also reflect that.

Diolch, Delyth. The Act was specifically designed to strengthen existing governance systems to improve the well-being of Wales. Welsh legislation has drawn from, and supplemented, the Act’s provisions, including, for example, our Social Partnership and Public Procurement (Wales) Act 2023. As you know, Welsh Ministers must set out and publish well-being objectives and review them on an annual basis.

Thank you for that. Internationally, that piece of legislation is a source of pride for Wales. But, in reality, at home, there is a feeling that the law has no teeth. We've received two reports in recent years—from the Public Accounts and Public Administration Committee and the auditor general—that have highlighted how much work still needs to be done to ensure that the Act is more than just a collection of words. And I say that as someone who genuinely is in favour of the principle of the Act—it's something that I feel very proud of when I speak to people from other countries on these isles. Could the Government ensure that we get full post-legislative consideration of the Act to consider the challenges that have stood in the way of implementing the Act and how we could overcome those challenges?

Diolch, Delyth. I, too, am extremely proud of the Act, and for anyone of us who's attended an international function—I was just discussing this with the Deputy First Minister very recently, actually—it's really striking, isn't it, how people come up to you and talk about how we did that and what effect it's had. It really is a beacon of hope in the world, really—that Governments can do this. I think it's important to remember, in considering that, that it's as much about culture change in the way that decisions are made as the justiciability, if you like, of the Act itself.

It has made a fundamental change inside the Welsh Government: so, the way that we are subject to the requirements of the Act; the way that we set and publish our well-being objectives within six months of the general election; the way we publish the annual report of progress made; the way that the seven ways of working work out the way that people think about it and, actually, mention it when you're looking at ministerial advice from across the Government—the future generations Act is not only mentioned but embedded in the way that the thinking works. I think it is taking slightly longer to do that in other public bodies, but I know that my colleague Jayne Bryant has been working with local government on doing that; I had in that job and I know Rebecca Evans did too. Not unsurprisingly, some of our 22 local government colleagues are further along that line than others, but, you know, we absolutely will get there.

Then, I think once we feel it is properly embedded across the public sector, and it might seem like a long time to us, but it's not a long time, actually, in the way that these things work—it's 10 years, really, so that's not a very long time for cultural change for that kind of public administration—I think a future Senedd might want to see whether you want to give the commissioner a few more teeth, if you like. But I think it has been bedding in very well. I think that just the fact that we've got to think in that way, and publish reports and responses in that way, and actually give it consideration, has made a serious impact on, actually, all of our legislation. Then, there are specific examples where we just would not have been able to do the social partnership and public procurement piece without the well-being of future generations Act. 

Diolch, Rhys. Tribunal reform is very much at the heart of our ambition for the justice system in Wales, and a programme of work to which we remain completely committed. The timing of legislation associated with the programme will be announced in due course.

Thank you very much, Counsel General. If the Welsh Government is serious about the devolution of justice, then we have to run the things that we have already well. That hasn't been true in terms of the Welsh tribunals. We read in one annual report after another about the problems in terms of the Welsh tribunals—payment of members, sites and locations, and the lack of training, for example.

Through Welsh tribunals, we have an opportunity to develop a justice system that is different in Wales—one that is fair and is accessible to all. A special report from the Law Commission has been published since 2021, but, in truth, the results were known before then, in 2020. So, enough time has passed for us to know what that special report does say. You say that we're going to hear before long when the legislation will be laid before the Senedd. Well, when will those recommendations be implemented? Thank you.

Thank you very much, Rhys. We do continue to work on the development of a tribunals Bill through which we will address recommendations of both the Commission on Justice in Wales and the Law Commission report on devolved tribunals in Wales. The recommendations provided a considered road map for us to follow as we develop and implement our proposals for reform. The proposed reforms are aimed at creating a modern, coherent tribunals system focused on meeting the needs of tribunal users, who can be confident the system operates with independence and in a way that adjudicates on the disputes justly and efficiently.

The respondents, as I know you know, to the White Paper last year were generally very positive about the proposed reforms. We're now doing the detailed work that will allow the draft legislation to be produced. It's an important piece of legislation, one that we hope is consensual across parties, and that will govern how our tribunals operate for years to come. We're developing it thoughtfully and consultatively to make sure we get that right. I'm not able to say exactly when, because I'm reliant on the First Minister making a legislative statement about the upcoming legislative programme, but I can assure you that we are working diligently on the Bill.

And then, just to say that the First Minister and I are actually shortly meeting with the president of Welsh Tribunals, and, more generally, I expect to have regular dialogue with him about identifying and securing the right future budgets for the tribunals as well. Part of that will be about ensuring that the service operates as efficiently as possible, and I know that's something that the president of Welsh Tribunals has made clear is very important to him—and, indeed, he did so at a conference I was at just very recently. So, I'm looking forward to that continued dialogue as well. I thought it was important that we met with the First Minister in the first instance, and I do hope we can bring a legislative statement forward early in the next calendar year, so that we can have some certainty about the timetabling for the Bill.

And finally, question 8, Rhys ab Owen.

Diolch, Rhys. Whilst we do not know what the final content of the assisted dying Bill will be, it's likely that it will relate to a reserved matter. We are in regular contact with the UK Government to understand and plan for the implications for the people of Wales.

Diolch yn fawr, Cwnsler Cyffredinol. I am concerned, about this important Bill going through Westminster as part of a private Member's Bill, that the impact on Welsh devolution and on the health and social care system here in Wales will not be fully considered and fully reflected. For example, the Bill gives the Secretary of State the power by regulation to specify the medicines, the form, the manner and the conditions under which these assisted dying drugs are prescribed. If this Bill passes, it will radically impact on devolved areas. What discussions, therefore, is the Counsel General having to ensure that the Bill fully respects the devolution settlement here in Wales, and fully engages with Welsh stakeholders? Diolch yn fawr.

Thank you. I don't want to make this sound insignificant in any way, but we're engaging in the usual engagement that we always have when there's a Bill going through Parliament. So, we have a number of policy officials and lawyers who watch UK Bills to make sure that any implication for the devolved settlement is fully recognised, that if there are powers going to the Secretary of State, as I said in answer to Alun Davies just earlier, that, where appropriate, those equivalent powers come to Welsh Ministers, that we do not have concurrent decision making where that's not appropriate, that we have the decision making devolved here to Wales where that's appropriate, and that we make the correct provision for the devolution settlement. And this Bill, although it has many complex moral and legal considerations, is no different in that respect. We would go through that same process. If a legislative consent memorandum is required then we will make sure that one is brought. That LCM would set out the implications for the devolution settlement and the arrangements in the Bill, which we would hope by then, of course, to have negotiated so that the devolution settlement was fully reflected, so, if, for example, we ultimately end up with a power for the Secretary of State to prescribe particular medicines, that that would be appropriately done by the Welsh Ministers here in Wales, for example, and so on.

So, the same process is gone through despite the moral and legal complexity of any given Bill. I can assure you we are going through that process now and we will give careful consideration to any of those implications. As a Government we've taken a neutral stance, quite rightly, I think, and Members will vote according to their conscience in the UK Parliament, and then we will be in a position to make sure that that is properly devolved.

I thank the Counsel General.

We'll move now to item 3 on our agenda, the business statement and announcement. I call on the Trefnydd, Jane Hutt.

Thank you very much. There are no changes to this week's business. Draft business for the next three weeks is set out on the business statement and announcement, which is available to Members electronically.

Trefnydd, can I ask you for a statement from the Minister with responsibility for science on the opportunity that there is to establish a national observatory here in Wales. It is an issue that I've raised in the Chamber in the past, in particular with your predecessor as Trefnydd in her capacity as the then Minister for north Wales, and she was as keen as I was to explore the opportunity for a national observatory for Wales, particularly in the dark skies around north-east Wales in what will be the new national park covering the Clwydian range and Dee valley.

It struck me that there was an article in the news very recently about the quality of the dark skies in Wales. They are amongst the best, the very best, in the world, but unfortunately very few people are aware of them. When it comes to Google searches very few people are searching out Wales and its dark skies opportunities, and that presents an opportunity, I believe, for us. So, can I have an update on the ability of the Welsh Government to look at the feasibility of establishing a new national observatory for Wales in collaboration with our Welsh universities and our national park?

Diolch yn fawr. That's a really important question that I need to follow up, obviously, with the relevant Cabinet Secretary, but with the fact that you've linked it as well, and a north Wales perspective, to the national park development, I will raise it with the Cabinet Secretary for Transport and North Wales. But it is a real opportunity as well, as I know that this provides an opportunity for people to visit Wales because of the splendour of our night skies. Diolch yn fawr.

I would like to welcome the written statement released yesterday by the Minister for Culture, Skills and Social Partnership in terms of the Welsh Rugby Union's review of women's playing contracts. I'm pleased to see that he has met with the WRU urgently, and that he is committed to seek to understand more about the situation. I would like to express my disappointment that the WRU is once again in the headlines for the wrong reasons. We were all, of course, hoping that this chapter had been closed in terms of the history of the Welsh Rugby Union in this regard. The statement does set out a commitment to update us as the situation evolves. Can I ask for that update to be as an oral statement at the appropriate time, so we have an opportunity to discuss this on the floor of the Chamber?

Thank you very much, Heledd Fychan, for your question. This is a very important issue.

I was very pleased also that the Minister for Culture, Skills and Social Partnership met, as you say, with the representatives of the WRU yesterday, and also laid a written statement. I think it was important that he arranged that meeting very urgently following that media focus over the weekend about the allegations of sexism faced by the women's national team in their contract negotiations. It’s so disappointing, isn't it, that once again Welsh rugby is in the headlines for the wrong reasons, especially in the context of recent history. So, I think now the Minister is looking to meet with the review's authors. Because you'll know that a review was published by the WRU—it hasn't been published; it was scheduled for the end of November—and he's looking to meet with the review's authors but also the players themselves—and I think that's important, isn't it—over coming days and weeks because we all want Welsh rugby to grow and thrive, and particularly women's rugby and the women's national team.

I know that the Minister has said in his written statement he'd keep Members updated as we make progress over the coming weeks. Can I just say I think this is relevant for myself as Cabinet Secretary for Social Justice? I think an apology is needed. The recognition of the scrutiny here today is important, and I'm sure that the Minister will want to come back and fully report to the Senedd as he takes forward his very welcome action, I would say, and I'm grateful for your support for his action. 

We've, sadly, lost count of the amount of times in this place that we've talked about our dismay and disgust at bullying, sexism or sexual harassment in the workplace, whether that's high-profile cases in the public sector, such as the fire and rescue service and the police, and, as Heledd Fychan has just referred to, in the last past few days we've once again seen the WRU making the headlines for allegations of sexism and bullying. Can I add to the statement that's already been requested and ask for a further statement on, more broadly, what tools we have in Wales to not just talk but act to stamp out inappropriate and unacceptable workplace behaviours, and how too, potentially, the Welsh Government will be taking into account and acting on the new legal duty on employers to take reasonable steps to prevent sexual harassment of their workforce through the new Worker Protection (Amendment of Equality Act 2010) Act 2023? 

Thank you very much for your question, Hannah Blythyn; it's also a very important question, I think. 

I think this is where we have got now a new opportunity, haven't we, with the worker protection Act, which does provide workers with those very important additional and specific protections, which actually do complement the Equality Act 2010. But I think the importance of the worker protection Act is it does aim to better protect employees from sexual harassment in the workplace, and it requires employers to take proactive measures. It came into force only on 26 October and so I'm very grateful that the Member has brought this to our attention today. 

Just to say, in terms of the provisions for employers, the Act makes provisions for a proactive duty on employers to take reasonable steps to prevent sexual harassment of employees during their employment, provision for compensation uplifts to be awarded by employment tribunals if an employer is deemed to have failed to take reasonable steps and an employee experiences sexual harassment, and enforcement through the Equality and Human Rights Commission, who are provided with the authority to investigate and enforce compliance with the new duties. 

So, we all know that legislation is important but we also know that legislation doesn't necessarily deliver the change without ensuring that policy changes and partnership raising awareness. I also want to thank the Wales Trades Union Congress's Shavanah Taj and, indeed, her co-chair of the sexual harassment at work work stream that we've got as part of the partnership board on tackling violence against women, domestic abuse and sexual violence. They've been holding conferences with employers about tackling sexual violence and sexual harassment of employees as part of our commitment to tackle sexual harassment and sexual violence. 

Again, an opportunity to remind colleagues of White Ribbon Day coming up, and I know Joyce Watson will be leading, and I hope across the Chamber all parties engage on that later this month. These issues are crucial for us to bring to the fore, but welcoming and respecting the fact that we have got strong new legislation quickly put on to the statute book by the new UK Government.  

Business Minister, can I please request a statement from the Cabinet Secretary for Health and Social Care about what steps the Government will be taking to improve ambulance waiting times? An 86-year-old constituent of mine had a nasty fall during a recent shopping trip at Newport retail park with her son. Following her fall, passers-by rushed to her aid and called for an ambulance, only be told that there was an eight-hour wait. My constituent's son was left with the shocking prospect of leaving his frightened mother on a cold, wet concrete floor, in danger of hypothermia, whilst waiting for an ambulance. Instead, members of the public rallied around and made a makeshift stretcher and lifted my constituent into the back of a transit van and drove her to the Grange University Hospital. All of this was caught on camera and the footage I have seen makes very, very distressing viewing. I'm more than happy to share it with you, as well as the Cabinet Secretary for health. This incident was, quite frankly, unacceptable, and had it not been for the public's quick thinking, the outcome could have been very, very different. I am working with the family to help them get answers following this distressing incident, so a statement from the Cabinet Secretary for health, outlining what steps the Government is taking to ensure this appalling situation, and situations like this, do not ever happen again, will be greatly appreciated. Thank you.

Well, thank you for drawing that case to the attention of the Senedd and to myself as Trefnydd. Obviously, every case and example of that is very regrettable. I'm sure also that the Cabinet Secretary for Health and Social Care will want to take note of that case that you've explained, and it is also very admirable that—. It shows the community response, doesn't it? And we know also that, so often, paramedics can be on the scene before ambulances. I think we also have, across the Chamber, examples where we are told, 'Oh, someone fell ill and an ambulance came very quickly', so we must make sure that we have consistency. But it is important that you do draw this attention to the Welsh Ambulance Services University NHS Trust. And, indeed, obviously there is a formal complaints process, but also we obviously hope that the constituent who was affected is now receiving, I'm sure, all the care that's required.

Trefnydd, in last week's budget, Westminster finally allowed the £1.5 billion mineworkers' pension fund to be handed back to ex-miners. I would call for a statement from the Government congratulating those campaigners on their victory and acknowledging how cruelly long they've had to wait to see this day. Many miners have died waiting, have died in bitter poverty, whilst Westminster Governments, both Tory and Labour, have sat on their savings, pocketing the billions the miners were owed.

Now, this change is a cause for celebration, but thanks should go to the campaigners who fought this injustice, those who stood on wet street corners gathering signatures, who took petitions to Downing Street—the men and women who never gave up. And to the few politicians who fought with them, chiefly amongst them my predecessor Steffan Lewis, who is still so missed by so many of us. So, would the Government release that statement, please, of congratulations, and will it endeavour to ensure that every ex-miner gets what they deserve from this scheme?

Well, thank you for that question, Delyth Jewell. Again, following the First Minister, I think this is a moment of celebration, and it is something—. Again, I've already mentioned one piece of legislation that's so important for workers' rights that's been swiftly implemented by our new UK Labour Government, and now we see another example, in the budget last week, of that victory for the miners in terms of the pension schemes and, indeed, for all of those who supported their cause. And just to clarify for colleagues, of course, today, this will transfer £1.5 billion—£1.5 billion—from the mineworkers' investment reserve fund to pension scheme trustees. Now, this is something where, in terms of the detail, I'm sure that the Cabinet Secretary will want to give more explanation of what this will mean, but I think this is something where we can see that this is a new Labour Government that acted on the interests of our miners who served our country, our nation, and who now deserve the justice for that pension scheme, which this new Labour Government is giving.

May I please have a statement from the Cabinet Secretary for Health and Social Care on ambulance waits in north Wales? In June, an 82-year-old lady died at Glan Clwyd Hospital, following more than a 14-hour wait for an ambulance, after she collapsed in her home. Following an inquest, the coroner had issued a prevention of future deaths report on the Welsh ambulance services trust after finding that the patient had spent hours lying on the floor before being treated and admitted to hospital. This is clearly unacceptable and not the kind of service one would expect in a developed nation, and this poor service has led to a woman's death, unfortunately.

The head of Wales's ambulance service has previously mentioned the hours lost to handover delays, which have quadrupled since 2018, but concerns have also been raised regarding the Welsh ambulance service's medical priority dispatch system, and the reports will look into whether the system remains fit for purpose. So, can I receive a statement from the Cabinet Secretary for Health and Social Care on this tragic case, and what the Welsh Government is doing to resolve the issues in the Welsh ambulance services trust, which are leading to unacceptable waiting times, because my constituents deserve a heck of a lot better?

Well, obviously, again, any case like that is regrettable, and it is reported and recorded in the Senedd, and I'm sure that appropriate representations have been made in terms of that particular case.

I mean, just to report on the Wales air ambulance, and of course the emergency medical retrieval and transfer service, just to update Members, we, the Welsh Ministers, understand that permission has been granted for the judicial review claim to proceed, which names them as an interested party to a challenge to the decision of the NHS Wales Joint Commissioning Committee's decision in respect of the consolidation of the EMRTS scheme, currently delivered from bases in mid and north Wales to a new base in north Wales.

So, again, you've raised an example of need in terms of access to ambulance services and linked it to the air ambulance service, and I've given you an update on where they are in terms of that situation, which of course we hope will soon be resolved.

I'd like to ask for a statement, please, by the Minister for Children and Social Care to update the Senedd on the roll-out of free childcare provision. It was extremely disappointing not to hear the first female UK Chancellor mention childcare once in her budget speech last week. The investment announced for England by the previous Government will continue, but providers, who are already in a precarious financial position, warn that the increase to employers' national insurance contributions will endanger the sector's viability.

So, as the Welsh Government rejected the Equality and Social Justice Committee's recommendation that it should commit to funding affordable childcare through the Barnett consequentials it will receive, and decided last year to redirect £16.1 million away from childcare, followed by an additional cut of £11.2 million in the last budget, I'd like assurances that the Welsh Government will provide the necessary funding for this critical sector, to both mitigate the new national insurance contribution costs and to ensure the expansion of affordable childcare in Wales. Only 60 per cent of two-year-olds will be eligible for the childcare element of Flying Start upon the completion of phase 2 in March 2025, so any decision to delay the implementation of phase 3 will have a significant effect on Welsh families.

Thank you very much.

Thank you for your question, Sioned Williams.

I'm very pleased that you've raised the question of childcare. It is crucial in terms of our ambitions for social justice and also support for our children, and particularly those where we know, for example, that Flying Start has made such a real difference. Just to comment on those points, obviously this was a UK Government budget, and we are now starting to look at our budget, but I assure you that, as you will be well aware, we've expanded the childcare offer to parents in education and training. Flying Start made a real difference to parents and children in so many ways. We're expanding childcare for two-year-olds through Flying Start, so that an additional 9,500 children will benefit.

But also, I would want to add to this that this is something where we need to look at the benefits that have come through not just supporting, but continuing to support our free breakfast scheme, for example. I know and I'm sure that many of us across this Chamber will have children, grandchildren and constituents who benefit from a free breakfast scheme, which also actually provides free childcare from 08:15, 08:30 every morning, increasing the provision of wrap-around care that is provided in our childcare sector. And I know that the Minister is very engaged with the workforce. I think this is absolutely critical, that we expand and we support the childcare workforce.

Trefnydd, I'd like to call for a statement from the Cabinet Secretary for transport, who I'm really pleased is able to join us here this afternoon, particularly a statement on council funding for road maintenance and potholes. You'll be aware that, last week, the Chancellor made an announcement that there will be £500 million extra being made available for local road maintenance in England. Of course, I expect there to be a consequential of the £500 million through to Wales. Councils, I'm sure, will be expecting to see that money come through to them to enable them to deliver on those road maintenance and pothole issues.

I've been made aware by many residents, in Wrexham in particular, who are suffering significant issues due to the potholes in that part of the world. I know that they would welcome investment by the local authority in those potholes being dealt with. So, I'd like confirmation from the Cabinet Secretary that consequential funding will come through to deal with these issues, and that that money will pass through to local authorities to be able to tackle these issues, and I think a statement on this would be most welcome. Thank you very much.

Thank you very much, Sam Rowlands. Well, as we've said, and as the First Minister said, we very much welcome the budget last week, and I'm glad you welcome it as well. It was a budget where the overall settlement for 2025-26 is more than £1 billion higher than it would have been under the previous UK Government, and I think it's important that we put that on the record again: £1 billion higher than under the previous Conservative UK Government. But I'm especially pleased with the capital budget of £234 million. And I think now, obviously, it is for us, as is the case, we have our consequentials, but we then decide how we are going to allocate those consequentials, and the draft budget, of course, is being prepared and will then come to all committees for scrutiny.

So, I'd like a statement, please, from the Deputy First Minister on the long-term prospects of Fairbourne, if possible. You will be aware that Fairbourne had a report published many years ago from the shoreline management plan, in 2009 I think, which said that it raised significant concerns over the future sustainability of the defence of Fairbourne. That was interpreted as abandoning the village and that they were going to decommission the village. Now, because of that report, and because of the media around it, people living in Fairbourne can't get insurance on their property and can't get mortgages on their property. But since then, of course, a lot of work has been done on the shoreline management, and on the sea defences in Fairbourne. So many things have been carried out, in fact, that Fairbourne is now safe, and the sea levels won't impact on Fairbourne, and it is safe for people to buy houses and live there. So, I'd like a statement from the Deputy First Minister accepting this and saying that Fairbourne is a safe place to live, and confirming that the shoreline management is now improved and safe for people to live in Fairbourne, please.

Diolch yn fawr, Mabon, and this is for the Deputy First Minister, but also, of course, the Cabinet Secretary for north Wales is listening to this question. Again, it’s very much an issue for Gwynedd Council and the community that are affected. So, I will bring this to the attention of the Deputy First Minister for an update and reassurance on those points about Fairbourne, and the support for the community, sustainability, and 'What's next?', really, is what people want to know.

And finally, Samuel Kurtz.

Diolch, Llywydd dros dro. Trefnydd, could I please request an urgent statement and intervention from the Cabinet Secretary for health on approving two drugs to treat Burkitt lymphoma? Joshua Carter-Hewins, a 25-year-old constituent of mine, is currently battling this rare aggressive cancer. Though often curable in children, Burkitt lymphoma in adults has a much lower survival rate. Josh is currently receiving end-of-life care in Cardiff after chemotherapy was unsuccessful. His family, desperate for alternatives, found that a combination of glofitamab and polatuzumab vedotin has shown success in treating similar patients in Europe. A recent study from Copenhagen also supports the effectiveness of this combination, but it remains unlicensed for Burkitt, and NHS approval is still needed. Josh and his family and friends have already raised over £68,000 of his £100,000 target so that he can get private treatment, yet still need the drugs to be approved. As Josh’s loving wife, Beth, says,

'We’re currently desperately trying to reach out to the NHS and the drug company, Roche, to ask them to grant the use of the drug on compassionate grounds. This has been done before, although it’s very rare.'

So, please, Trefnydd, on behalf of Josh and his family, can the health Secretary urgently look at this and get this done?

Thank you very much for drawing that to our attention and recognising the very troubling situation that Josh and his family are in. As you’re aware, of course, National Institute for Health and Care Excellence approval is critically important in these situations, but, clearly, an update on those circumstances from the Cabinet Secretary for Health and Social Care will be forthcoming, I’m sure.

I thank the Trefnydd. 

We’ll move on now to item 4 on the agenda, namely a legislative consent motion on the Passenger Railway Services (Public Ownership) Bill. I call on the Cabinet Secretary for Transport and North Wales to move the motion. Ken Skates.

Diolch yn fawr iawn. Before I begin, I’d like to note that the Rail Accident Investigation Branch has produced today an interim report into the incident on the Cambrian line on 21 October, and I thank them and all involved for their hard work.

The Passenger Railway Services (Public Ownership) Bill was introduced by the UK Government in July, just weeks after the general election, and it’s moved at pace through the UK Parliament so that Labour Governments in Wales and Westminster can get on with delivering for passengers on our railways. This legislative change immediately delivers on one of the Welsh Government’s long-standing priorities for railways—to call time on private sector franchises and bring rail services back into the public realm. We’ve long argued that the railway is a fundamental public service, and that its rightful place is in the public sector rather than in the hands of investors and the private sector.

Through Transport for Wales, we are already demonstrating the benefits of a publicly owned rail operator that is solely focused on delivering for people, businesses and the communities that it serves. This Bill will enable Welsh Ministers to secure the position of Transport for Wales as a public sector operator of our Wales and borders franchise. This will enable us to maximise the benefits of integrating rail with other forms of public transport, particularly buses through the forthcoming bus Bill. Other operators in Wales who provide crucial cross-border services under UK Government contracts will also be affected by the Bill.

We hope to ensure that Great Western Railway, Avanti and CrossCountry will eventually all be returned to the public sector by the Secretary of State for Transport. And given the importance of these services for the Welsh economy and connectivity, we will work with the UK Government to ensure the forthcoming rail reform Bill provides a role for Welsh Government and the Senedd in holding these crucial services to account.

When I met with the new UK rail Minister, Lord Hendy, over the summer, we committed to working in partnership to deliver a better railway for Wales. I also met with the Secretary of State for Transport earlier today to further discussions. In the meantime, the public ownership Bill will mark an important step in the devolution of railways, securing the position of TfW Rail and delivering for passengers. Therefore, I recommend that the Senedd supports the proposals and gives its consent.

I call now on the Chair of the Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee, Mike Hedges.

Diolch. The LJC committee reported on the Welsh Government’s legislative consent memorandum on the Passenger Railway Services (Public Ownership) Bill in mid October. The committee agrees with the Cabinet Secretary’s analysis in the memorandum that clauses 1 to 4 of the Bill as introduced, and its Schedule, are provisions that require the consent of the Senedd in accordance with Standing Order 29, in so far as those provisions made in relation to Wales have regard to devolved matters.

In coming to this conclusion, the committee acknowledges that this legislation falls across what is devolved to the Senedd, what is devolved to Welsh Ministers only, and what is not devolved at all. We therefore agree with the Cabinet Secretary’s assessment that the Senedd could not legislate on the matters included in the Bill.

In our view, there are benefits to the alignment of the Senedd’s legislative competence with the executive competence of Welsh Ministers, not least in terms of coherence for law making and ensuring that law applicable to Wales is accessible.

Paragraph 6 of the LCM states that

'The UK Government inquired whether the Welsh Ministers want these provisions to apply to their powers under the 1993 Act as well as those of the Secretary of State'.

There is also reference in the draft explanatory notes to the Bill to the prospect of further, more extensive primary legislation on railways. Given these statements, we recommend that the Cabinet Secretary should confirm whether this forthcoming primary legislation on railways has been considered as an opportunity to align the Senedd’s legislative competence with the existing executive competence of the Welsh Ministers in this policy. In the response to our report, you said you will continue to work with the UK Government on the detail of railway reform expected in forthcoming legislation. This doesn’t answer our specific query, and, so, I wonder if the Cabinet Secretary could provide clarity in his closing remarks.

Before closing, I would like to address the Cabinet Secretary’s written statement that was issued on Friday. In it, the Cabinet Secretary states that the UK Government has proposed an amendment to the Bill that would add a new clause. While I understand that this amendment was only tabled in the UK Parliament last week, it is not clear why the Welsh Government has not laid a supplementary legislative consent memorandum. I would be grateful if the Cabinet Secretary could confirm why he considers that the requirement for a supplementary legislative consent memorandum has not been engaged.

We of course all want to see improvements made to railway services for the benefit of passengers, but is taking operations into public ownership the right course of action? I'm extremely sceptical, actually, and do not believe it's a step in the right direction at all. In the past, Transport for Wales has been hailed as a fantastic example of what publicly owned rail looks like. [Interruption.] Of course, we'd expect to hear that tagline from Labour politicians, who seem to be sitting there saying the same thing, as Transport for Wales has been your golden child for quite some time now. But, in reality, TfW's track record should be enough to put people off for life from pursuing the nationalisation of rail.

A report on rail services and Transport for Wales's performance, published earlier this year, deemed high service cancellation rates and low passenger satisfaction scores were a common theme with TfW. More than £2 million has been paid out in compensation by Transport for Wales since 2018, and let's not forget Labour Ministers had to hand over £125 million straight from the public purse to TfW. Does this really sound like a glowing example of what nationalised rail should look like? Instead of looking at Wales and seeing the poor offering our residents have to put up with, the new Labour Government in Westminster wants to replicate this across the board.

For me, personally, as well as my group, passengers should always be at the heart of any rail reform, but it does not seem to be the case at the heart of this Bill. I fear it is a hastily put together piece of legislation, made up of nothing more than left-wing ideology. There has been no indication from the UK Government on how this Bill will actually benefit passengers, and even the Secretary of State for Wales admitted there is no guarantee this will indeed lead to cheaper fares or more reliable services, so I fail to see the point of it. This Bill will stifle competition between businesses, and that is not something that Welsh Conservatives can support this afternoon.

I want to finish by sharing the remarks of my Westminster colleague Helen Whately, as I believe she perfectly sums this Bill up—and I don't think I could have put it better myself. And it would do well for the ex-shadow transport Secretary to listen to this carefully. She said, and I quote:

'The Bill is the embodiment of the same old Labour mantra that anything run by the state is simply better than anything run by the private sector, and that the answer to a problem is putting politicians in charge, when it has been proven time and again that that is not the case.'

Thank you, acting Presiding Officer.

Plaid Cymru welcomes the principles behind the Passenger Railway Services (Public Ownership) Bill, which seeks to transition franchised passenger railway services, as we've heard, from private to public ownership, which is a long-standing policy goal for us. Our public transport system, we believe, should serve the interests of the public and not the profit motive of private companies. This Bill, therefore, represents an important step in that direction. We recognise the benefits this transition will bring as we work towards more generally an integrated public transport system, of course, including the proposals for reregulating bus services, which are also a long-standing policy goal that we share.

However, reducing private sector control in the rail network alone, in that context, will not address the ongoing and historic underinvestment in Wales's railways, nor will it ensure that fair funding for Wales is secured. Therefore, we cannot fail to recognise the ongoing importance of the fight for funding justice for Wales in the context of our railways and the millions that have been denied to Wales as a result of the failure to recognise what is owed to us through the HS2 programme, and of course we’ll continue to miss out until that is rectified. Until rail infrastructure is devolved fully, this will remain a constant driver of underinvestment in our public transport infrastructure. So, while recognising and acknowledging this important step in this Bill, we will not be able to achieve the full aspirations that we share in our party, and that indeed are shared more generally, until we have movement in terms of the funding context as well.

So, we recognise and support this legislative change, but we reiterate that, while improvements in the ownership structure of public transport and in the legislative framework are a step in the right direction, we can only achieve our ultimate goal if we have the funding platform, no pun intended, that is absolutely vital. So, yes, let’s get the ownership structure right, let’s get the legislative framework right, but we cannot ignore, when we’re talking of a public sector infrastructure, that unless we have the funding framework and the context, then we are not going to be able to maximise any benefits in legislative changes and we’re not going to be able to achieve our aspirations as a Senedd and the expectations of the people who send us here.

I think if anybody was in any doubt as to voting for this legislative consent motion this afternoon, having listened to the Conservative spokesperson, then that doubt has vanished. The ideological drive and attack on the public sector—the Conservatives seem content for every Government to own our railways except our own. What we’re doing is sending money overseas and not investing that money in our communities.

Let me tell you—and this is why you haven’t got any MPs left in Wales, by the way—there is nobody in this country who is convinced by the arguments of the Conservative Party that private ownership has delivered great railways across either Wales or anywhere else. Nobody believes you. And nobody believes you because we’ve travelled on those trains, we’ve seen what privatisation has delivered.

So, I’m really pleased to see this legislative consent motion and I’ll be pleased to vote for it later this afternoon, to ensure that the public takes over the railways and delivers railway investment, as we’ve seen up and down the continent, as we’ve seen elsewhere. That is what all of us want to see. And in delivering that investment, I want to say this to the Cabinet Secretary as well: we need to ensure that a partnership is a real partnership. And that means having powers in this place, and that means having funding available to this Government. What we currently have is none of those things, because you can only have a partnership if you have a partnership of equals, and that doesn’t exist in the current arrangements.

This Act of the UK Parliament is not designed to address those issues, I recognise that. But I’ll say this, Cabinet Secretary: all of us here, even perhaps some Conservatives, want to see greater investment in Welsh rail and want to see greater investment in Welsh rail services. But I see the failure of the current settlement in my own constituency. On the Rhymney side, we have the investment that’s taking place from the Welsh Government—electrified railways, four trains an hour. On the Ebbw Vale side, you see what we currently have and the current broken structure we have, with the Welsh Government having to loan money to Blaenau Gwent council to invest in the maximum of two trains an hour. That is an inequality that my constituents should not have to endure. That inequality, which the Conservatives are all in favour of, of course, is the consequence of a failed settlement that does not provide the powers to the Welsh Government and the oversight to this Parliament and the budget required to deliver the sorts of rail services that we want to see.

So, yes, I will vote this afternoon with a skip in my stride to vote for the—[Interruption.]—and a happy heart to vote—[Interruption.]—to vote, to vote for the—[Interruption.]—to vote to take the railways out of private ownership after the disaster of the last few decades. But I want to vote again—I want to vote again—to ensure that this place has the powers it requires and the powers it needs, and the Government has the budget it has a right to to deliver the services that all our constituents have the right to expect. 

I call now on the Cabinet Secretary for Transport and North Wales to reply. Ken Skates. 

Diolch yn fawr iawn. I'm just going to deal briefly with the question of whether public or private ownership is most desirable for the rail network by saying that for decades we've had a disjointed system in place, where you have multiple private operators and then you have Network Rail in charge of the infrastructure. We desperately need integration of trains and tracks, and for that integration to come under full public control. And if we wish to look at the contrast between public ownership and private sector operators, let's take Wales as an example. Here, Transport for Wales is the most reliable of the four operators in Wales, with the other three, privately-led, behind TfW in terms of reliability and punctuality. Now, if you want to know another reason why public ownership is best, just look at the rolling stock. We will have gone from, in 2018, having one of the oldest fleets of trains, to, next year, having one of the newest fleets of trains, because of the £800 million investment that we've made available. We'll go from having 270 trains in 2018 to more than 480 trains next year. Those are the benefits of public ownership.

Now, I think Adam Price and Alun Davies conveyed really important points about investment and historic underinvestment in rail infrastructure. But I am delighted, and I know that Alun Davies will be aware of this already, because he will have been keenly reading the UK Labour manifesto, that there will be, as part of Great British Railways, a Wales business unit that will give us control over expenditure, because there will be a dedicated enhancements rail fund, and that surely must be welcomed across the Chamber.

In regards to some of the points that Mike Hedges kindly made regarding the process that we followed, the UK Government, as I've mentioned, is moving at great pace, and so tabling a statement instead of a supplementary LCM has enabled us to provide as much time as possible for Members to have their say on this before it returns to the Report Stage at the House of Lords tomorrow. Arguably, a supplementary LCM was not needed either, because of the nil effect in terms of the practical effects and the legal effects, and that's the reason why I've brought forward the statement in the form of a written statement and why we are discussing this today, and I do hope that Members will give it support.     

The proposal therefore is to agree the motion. Does any Member object? [Objection.] Yes, there is objection. I will defer voting under this item until voting time. 

We'll move on now to item 5, namely a statement by the Cabinet Secretary for Education on improving educational standards in Wales, and I call on the Cabinet Secretary for Education, Lynne Neagle. 

Thank you, acting Dirprwy Lywydd. I took up this role because I am passionate about making a positive difference to children and young people. Their futures and the future of Wales requires all our children and young people to succeed. We need to work together to make this happen. Acting Dirprwy Lywydd, there is much to celebrate about our education provision. It is worth remembering that this summer we saw some fantastic achievements in GCSEs and A-levels, particularly at the top grades. We also saw our performance broadly in line with 2019, which is what we had hoped to see. I hope that everyone here will welcome the achievements of our pupils, their teachers and our support staff. I want to extend my thanks to all of you working to improve the lives and life chances of learners in Wales.

Nonetheless, I do not shy away from the challenges we face. Learner attendance, attitudes to learning and attainment are weaker than before the pandemic. Schools are dealing with changes in society and learners with increasingly complex needs. And they are stepping up to meet these challenges.

Today, I am outlining the key improvement priorities that will be my absolute focus and will underpin the improvements we want to see. I've said many times that education begins by attending school and engaging with learning. Our attendance figures show signs of improvement. Our average attendance for this academic year so far is 92 per cent, up from 91.4 per cent over the same period last year. But there is variation between local authorities, between year groups and between learners from different backgrounds. The attendance taskforce has worked to better understand the challenges on attendance and I want to thank members of the taskforce for their work. Now that this understanding has been developed, we will take action to return attendance levels at least to where they were before the pandemic. I will be setting out the detail of these actions and support in a further oral statement later this term. We also know the impact that poor behaviour in schools can have on learners’ attendance and engagement in education, and I am continuing dialogue with local authorities, schools and with trade unions on what action is needed to tackle poor behaviour. I have set out further details in a letter to members of the schools social partnership forum, a copy of which has been circulated to MSs.

As I have said before, literacy and numeracy are the building blocks of learning. Before half term, Estyn published the early insights on their 2023-24 annual report. It makes it clear that schools have come a long way since an Estyn annual report 12 years ago set out stark findings on basic reading skills. The big picture in 2024 is that schools are getting the basics right but need more focus on developing higher level skills. We also know there is a particular challenge at the transition point between primary and secondary. I've already accepted the need for clearer expectations of learning at all ages, and my recent statements have been explicit about what is needed. Today a new area on Hwb has been launched to bring together support and resources on literacy. We will continue to add to these resources in the coming months and I am writing to schools this week to signpost this support. To ensure schools have access to the best evidence and support, our expert literacy panel will meet on 11 November. And from April we will realign our grants to ensure better targeting towards literacy, numeracy, progression and assessment.

I am committed to doing everything I can to raise standards for every child. Today I am announcing a programme of targeted support to drive up attainment in literacy, maths and science, backed by an additional £1.1 million this year. This programme will bolster the existing good work in our schools. We will expand professional learning to help children develop a love for reading; provide targeted support for younger learners struggling to read by expanding the Remote Instruction of Language and Literacy project delivered by Bangor University, which has seen children gain between six and 12 months' learning in their reading; widen the provision available through the Maths Support Programme Wales, including masterclasses for secondary school age learners; increase support for science programmes, including translation of free resources for science teaching and expanding girls in STEM initiatives; improve parental engagement with speech and language through the 'Talk with me' project and produce more materials and tools to support professionals in their work.

We're also building a new culture for school improvement, with school-to-school and collaborative working at the heart. This builds on the review of education partners’ roles, which highlighted the need for national leadership. I am therefore establishing a new education improvement team within the Welsh Government to engage directly with local authorities on shared goals; a new national body for professional learning, which will respond to changing practitioner and Government priorities; and a national coherence group, which will review local authority partnership models, which I’m pleased that former Minister for Education, Kirsty Williams CBE, has agreed to chair.

Of course, we need to be able to accurately measure the progress made by learners. I have already spoken to directors of education about the importance of schools taking part in the Programme for International Student Assessment in 2025, and I'm actively considering more international benchmarking through participation in TIMSS and PIRLS studies. Later this term, we will also be consulting on a new set of indicators for 14-16 learning, and I want to explore linking clearer age-related expectations in the refreshed literacy and numeracy framework with our personalised assessment data.

I can also announce today that I'm establishing a ministerial advisory group made up of independent experts. Their role will be to provide advice and challenge directly to me, supplementing the regular feedback I will continue to receive from teachers and school staff. I will publish a list of members appointed to the ministerial advisory group in due course.

Finally, and most importantly, I want to recognise the hard work and dedication of our teachers. Following our recent consultation with stakeholders, today I can confirm that teachers will receive a 5.5 per cent pay rise backdated to the start of this school year. We will be working with local authorities to ensure this backdating is applied as urgently as possible. Today I will be writing to all schools in Wales to share these updates with them directly. Working together, we can deliver the very best for our learners and shape a brighter, stronger future for them. Diolch.

Thank you, Cabinet Secretary, for your statement today on educational standards in Wales. What was missing from your statement was a realistic assessment of where those standards are after 25 years of a Welsh Labour Government. The Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development's PISA scores are clear. We have the worst educational standards anywhere in the United Kingdom, and it's been that way in every single subject every single time that we've been assessed. And what we needed today was a game-changing plan to drag us out of the mythical cellar and at least to a standard comparable with the rest of the United Kingdom, so that our young people can achieve their potential. But that simply isn't what we heard today. We heard a doubling down on more of the same—the same ideologically driven solutions that got us into this mess in the first place.

Now, let's remember what the Institute for Fiscal Studies report on education in Wales said. It said that differences in educational outcomes are not as a result of funding or even poverty levels. The reason they're different, and I quote, is because of

'differences in policy and approach.'

End quote. Our plan listens to the experts and follows the evidence to turn Welsh education around. Instead, they follow their ideology, doing things differently to the rest of the UK, even if the results are worse. How much longer can we go on like this? Nothing today on the curriculum, and let's remind ourselves what the IFS report said about the Welsh Government's approach there. They said, and I quote,

'declines have happened in essentially every country that has adopted such skills-based curricula'.

And yet this is the Welsh Labour Government's grand idea and their approach to fix the mess that they have made with education in Wales. So, instead of raising standards, the evidence suggests that Labour's approach will only lower them.

Now, turning to the statement itself, we heard about the improvement in attendance in Welsh schools, which is welcome, but it failed to mention that it will significantly lag behind other parts of the United Kingdom. It praised the increase to 92 per cent in Wales, but failed to mention that attendance rates in England are above 94 per cent. And it's again because of what was not in the statement. Attendance hubs have been a huge part of the success over the border in dealing with post-pandemic school absence, but yet again it's something this Welsh Labour Government has been unwilling to roll out in the same way in Wales, again maybe because of its success in England.

You acknowledged in the statement that poor behaviour has an impact on pupils and teachers, and in many instances let's call it what it is—it's violence. But what we didn't hear was any action, and this is an issue that needs tackling now, and it needs leadership from the Welsh Government. Lots of talk about dialogue, but no action. Last year, my colleague and my friend Laura Anne Jones launched a targeted plan to tackle violence in our schools. You could have adopted that plan and taken action today, but again, perhaps for ideological reasons, you chose not to.

I welcome your consideration towards more international benchmarking. Transparency hasn’t always been a hallmark of this Welsh Labour Government, so again I’d urge you to move from a state of contemplation about this to one of action, and to ensure that we do participate in TIMSS and PIRLS studies.

Finally, can I end by welcoming the 5.5 per cent pay rise that you announced for teachers in your statement? However, as you know, many schools across Wales are making teachers and other school staff redundant, putting off school improvement works, and taking subjects off the curriculum just to make ends meet. Whilst a pay rise for teachers is clearly welcome, in that context the last thing our schools need is an unfunded pay settlement by the Welsh Labour Government. So, can you confirm—[Interruption.]—that this will be fully funded by the Welsh Government for all our schools? And I hope they will be cheering too, because hopefully you will conclude that this will also include pension and national insurance contributions, so that no school will have to find these from existing budgets.

And you also mentioned that teachers were included in this pay rise, but not other school staff. So, unless you misspoke, can I suggest that that is a startling omission on your part? As a former teaching assistant myself, I know the crucial role our TAs play in our schools across the country. So, will you commit today to ensuring that our teaching assistants will also receive a 5.5 per cent pay rise too? Because, after all, the First Minister said it only this afternoon: austerity is over.

Well, thank you very much, Tom, for that speech. I will try and pick up on as many of the points that I can. I wanted to start, though, by absolutely refuting your suggestion that I am being in any way ideological. That is simply not the way that I work. My only interest in doing this job is to deliver for children and young people, and we will find the very best ways to do that. I also think that you cannot say that I have doubled down on anything, actually. I’ve been very transparent and open since coming into this role about the challenges that we face in education. I’ve been honest about what we’re going to do and have recognised that there is more work to do.

You constantly talk about the IFS report, and I’ve said in this Chamber there were some serious issues in the IFS report that we are taking very seriously, but I can tell you emphatically that me taking an ideological approach to education is not one of them.

You referred again to the curriculum and you highlighted the fact that I didn’t say very much about the curriculum. Can I remind you that I made a curriculum statement back in July, which you weren’t here for? I’m very happy to provide—[Interruption.] Yes, I’ve mentioned it quite a few times because you keep showing that you still haven't looked at what I said. [Interruption.] I set out a very clear plan of support that we are putting in to enable our curriculum to be developed effectively. And also in relation to the IFS report, can I remind you that the young people who did the PISA tests that were the basis of the IFS report have not been through the new curriculum?

You referred to attendance, and I said very clearly in my statement that I’ll be making a further statement on attendance, which is in the business statement for December. We have made a slight improvement. It’s nowhere near good enough, and I want to see a much bigger improvement, especially for children who are on free school meals. We are taking lots of action in this space. Our attendance taskforce has really carefully considered what are very complex reasons why children aren’t coming to school. There is no one silver bullet that is going to tackle this problem, and now that the attendance taskforce have done that work, we will be able to take forward a series of actions that I want to see raise attendance standards to what they were before the pandemic. We've already invested massively, £6.5 million, in family engagement officers who are going out, working with families who've got those complex needs and challenges, to make sure the children can come in to school, and we're looking at other barriers as well around things like transport.

You mentioned behaviour, which I referred to in my statement. You may not have seen, Tom, that I copied all Members into the letter to the schools social partnership forum. We are taking action on this. I am meeting trade unions on 18 November to have a focused look at what we can be doing more of in tackling behaviour problems. I've got a headteachers secondary school conference on Friday, and there is a focus on behaviour in that. We're developing a behaviour toolkit for schools and we've got research that we've commissioned on behaviour, so there is plenty of work going on in the behaviour space. But I think it's also really important to recognise that the problems of behaviour are coming into schools because of wider societal problems that schools are then picking up the pieces on. So, these are complex issues.

Thank you for what you said about TIMSS and PIRLS, and I'm very happy to confirm that I'm actively considering that. As with all things, I will make the decision based on what is best to deliver for children and young people in Wales.

Thank you too for your welcome for the 5.5 per cent pay raise for teachers. I'm sure you will also want to welcome the fact that it's a partnership with the Labour Government in Westminster that has enabled that pay rise to be delivered for all our hard-working teachers.

Just finally to say on school support staff that I really value the role of support staff. It's an area that I really want to expand as a member of this Government, working closely with them, but I'm sure you'll be aware that the terms and conditions of school support staff are currently a matter for negotiation with local government. It's a different system. But I can give you the assurance that I am keen to do everything I can to make sure that we value the role of our excellent support staff, and that's not just about money, it's about making sure that they've got access to professional learning opportunities and the recognition they deserve.

I thank the Minister for the statement.

What we have today is yet another statement of the obvious. Labour in Wales have failed pupils, parents and teachers for far too long, and now an admission that significant improvements are needed. Did this come as a shock to the Welsh Government when you did your listening exercise over the summer? Maybe you should have started listening a lot sooner.

Just look at this: since those worst ever 2009 PISA results, Welsh Government have sought the advice of the OECD three times, in 2014, in 2017 and 2020, only to end up with even worse PISA results the last time round, coupled with GCSE results over the last decade that have lagged behind those in England. In that time, we've also seen two major reforms to school improvement systems: the setting up of the regional education consortia, and then, more recently, a review that concluded that they were ineffective and that another model for national improvement was needed.

A Government going round and round in circles does not lead to pupil progress. We need to support teachers to do what they do best, which is to teach. Improving standards would be much easier to achieve if the Welsh Government had a grip on the other issues holding learners and teachers back, namely issues to do with workload, attendance and behaviour. I know the Cabinet Secretary mentioned some of these issues in her statement; however, education unions have expressed concerns that efforts made so far to try and resolve these issues haven't borne fruit.

Basing policy on evidence and expert advice is to be welcomed, of course, however, I do think there is a sense that this Government is abdicating responsibility. The statement is an admission of some really serious shortcomings. By my count, I note four new groups, teams or bodies set up to help the Cabinet Secretary to do her job, and reference to a further two already in existence. Is this not an admission of failure, that after 25 years of Labour in Wales, you're unable to get to grips with even the basic issue of improving standards in schools without outsourcing to external experts? And it's hardly like this Government has a good record when it comes to expert education groups. Just recently, we found out that the group on recruitment and retention, which is a vitally important matter of concern, was disbanded without notice, vanishing into thin air. So, could the Cabinet Secretary therefore tell us how long each of these new groups will be in existence, before I have to submit another written question to find out, perhaps, that they no longer exist?

Improvements, of course, require investment and fair funding, which we haven't seen enough of yet, and I worry that the money announced today won’t even touch the sides. Over the last three years, the overall level of school reserves has reduced by £186 million from £301 million to £115 million. Should we see reductions at the same rate over the next two years, overall reserves held by schools could be at a deficit of minus £71 million by 2026. Schools are facing unprecedented and precipitous budgetary challenges and it's time Labour in Wales makes good on its promise on more money for schools in Wales immediately. So, following confirmation, Cabinet Secretary, regarding VAT and independent schools last week by the Chancellor, could you say now when we will see consequential funding making an impact on education in Wales, or is it still a matter of 'wait and see'?

I wish the Cabinet Secretary—genuinely—and her support groups well in their efforts to improve school standards, but without any clear timeline on when we will see any improvements, it's clear to all pupils and parents alike that change can't come quickly enough. Let me make this clear: we, on these benches, are ready, in 2026, to put right these wrongs and give our next generation the best start and opportunities to succeed in life.

Thank you very much, Cefin, for your comments. If I can just say in relation to PISA, as I said to Tom Giffard, I was very clear that our last PISA results were not where we wanted them to be and that has been part of what has driven my prioritisation of raising attainment and standards. We owe it to all our children and young people to enable them all to do the very best that they can. You've highlighted the work with the OECD as if that's a weakness; I think that is a strength and we continue to work with the OECD. And the OECD have also said to us that we are doing the right things in the approaches that we're taking with education. Obviously, change does take time.

In terms of the review of the school improvement partnership programme—and I can't work out quite where all the groups you think are that are supporting me—I've announced one group today, which is directly advising me. That is a ministerial advisory group that is going to provide advice and challenge to me. The national coherence group is going to check that the work that is being taken, through what is a major piece of work with the school improvement partnership programme, is being done in a sensible and coherent way, looking at those local authority partnerships and making sure that they are going to deliver on the system.

The other things that we've announced—things like the strengthened school improvement team in the Welsh Government, the professional learning body—are actually going to be delivering things. Unless you're suggesting that I should be delivering all of these things myself, I think that having things like a professional learning organisation is really important. You've raised concerns about professional learning in this Chamber yourself; you know that teachers have said that there is white noise around professional learning, and this is part of making it a more coherent offer for everyone.

Just in terms of your reference to behaviour, I'll just reiterate what I said to Tom, which is that I'm meeting the unions on 18 November. I have made the offer on several occasions to work closely with trade unions on behaviour issues in schools, and we've also got the focus on behaviour in the headteachers' conference this Friday.

You referred to investment, and the sums that I've referred to for specific initiatives around literacy and numeracy today are, of course, in-year funding. I'll remind you, Cefin, that despite the huge hit our budget took as a Government, where our budget was worth £700 million less from the time of the last spending review, we still protected the funding that went to local government for schools and we also increased our funding that goes directly to schools through the local authority education grant.

You asked about consequentials. You will have seen that the Labour Government last week delivered extra funding for Wales, and I'm sure you'll understand that as a Government we need to consider what that means for us. That money will be prioritised by the Cabinet in line with Government priorities, and, of course, education is one. In terms of the VAT increase, you will have heard that the Chancellor confirmed that the VAT change in terms of private schools is going ahead. I know you're aware that I've already had discussions with the Treasury about the need for Wales to have our fair share of that money, and I'm confident that we'll continue those discussions and we'll want to get the very best deal out of that for Wales. 

Cabinet Secretary, I think having a more physically active school population is a great benefit to standards within our schools, including those greater degrees of concentration that come from being physically active before and during the school day, as well as generally. I think it directly feeds into learning and achievement, as well as being a general good. So, I just wonder, Cabinet Secretary, what you would say about progress on encouraging active travel to school.

Just the other week, I visited Durand Primary in Caldicot in my constituency, where they were working with Living Streets, and they'd ramped up quite substantially the number of children walking to school or walking part of the way to school, cycling and scooting, and they found real benefits in terms of those greater levels of concentration and readiness to learn. We have the daily mile, which I think is very successful in those terms as well, and some schools are very keen to make physical activity absolutely central to the school experience. Community-focused schools, I think, offer some really interesting possibilities, and I know that you are committed to making progress on that front, and it would be good to see that taking place as quickly and as extensively as possible.

Just one final thing—

Very quickly.

Active school uniforms, Cabinet Secretary, which I think some English schools are taking forward—I wonder whether that's within your consideration as well.

Thank you very much, John. I know how passionate you are about sport and physical activity, and, obviously, it's really important—it's important for children's health, but also does help them to learn in school, and is absolutely vital. You'll be aware that our new curriculum has a statutory area of learning and experience that is related to health, so that work on improving health should be embedded throughout the curriculum. On top of that, we've got other initiatives that we've had long-standing support for in Wales, like the Welsh network of healthy schools, which works with schools to make sure that they are promoting physical and mental health. 

In terms of active travel, obviously, that's a priority for the Government. I think there's more that we can do, and in my previous role as Deputy Minister for Mental Health and Well-being, we were looking at a daily active offer, which was a bit like the daily mile, but a bit more rounded really, looking at how kids come to school, what they do when they play in school, during the lessons—so, having a rounded look at activity. I think that's really important as well.

I know that you are really committed to the community-focused schools agenda, and that's somewhere where we have made a lot of progress as a Government. You'll know that our investment in school buildings has been at record levels in Wales—that's not just for new buildings, it's also for the community-focused element of that. So, there are lots of schools who get funding to specifically put in place changes to the school building that enables the communities to access those schools, and that's something that I'm really very keen on. 

I know, too, that you've got a strong interest in school uniform policy. You'll be aware that we reviewed our policy and issued new statutory guidance just over a year ago. It is for governing bodies and schools to implement that guidance, but we are conducting a review of how that new guidance is going at the moment. I'm very happy to look at the issue that you've raised around active school uniforms, despite the fact that, obviously, it's a matter for schools and governing bodies. I think the issue of pupil voice is really important in terms of school uniforms, and listening to young people.

Thank you for your statement, Cabinet Secretary. I'm sorry to say this, but it's very lacklustre and disappointing. There's no real ambition. There are sticking-plaster solutions of multiple taskforces and groups mentioned; more talking about the solutions, ideas and answers to what we already know and everyone in here knows. You just have to walk into a school to find out what is needed and what needs doing now—not more talking about it; there needs to be real action on this, Cabinet Secretary.

There's no mention of money being directed into schools, so heads can put it where they know are the right places to put it. There's no money or plan for teachers, especially those teaching in Welsh in Wales. And very importantly, no mention of teaching assistants, which we're crying out for. It's great that teachers are getting paid more, but what they're really crying out for is help in the classroom—some real help—with those pupils struggling with their ALN. More TAs are needed in the classroom to cope with that rise in ALN, with no financial support announced to that effect. This lack of help in the classroom for teachers is affecting all pupils' outcomes in all key areas.

You've moved from separate sciences to double sciences, putting all of our Welsh learners at immediate disadvantage to those across the border when it comes to STEM subjects. There's no mention of ALN. These ALN reforms were desperately needed—we know that. We worked on that—

You must ask your question now.

—together. Arguably and regrettably, they're being interpreted 22 different ways by 22 local authorities. Cabinet Secretary, the already real challenges in the classroom are compounded by the fact there's been no action to ensure that those learners falling below that radar for support for ALN—. What are you going to do to actually take action on that? Because, without that, we're going to be languishing at the bottom of PISA tables for many decades to come.

Can I thank the Member for her response to my statement, negative though it was? I would have to disagree with her that there were no solutions in what I said. I have set out what we see as key priorities for the education sector in Wales. We know that we've been asking a lot of our schools in Wales, so I think that that aspect of prioritisation, letting schools know what we want them to focus on, is vitally important.

I said in response to Cefin Campbell—maybe you weren't listening—that we did protect the funding that went to schools through the local authority education grant, and I've already explained in response to Tom how important teaching assistants are. I know that they've got tough and challenging jobs and we are working hard with our teaching assistants. We've got a group that is looking at things like their professional learning, looking at the support that they need in schools, and the issue of their pay is of course a matter for local government.

You referred briefly to the double science change with GCSEs. Can I say that is not a dumbing down of the qualification? It is a new qualification that will be just as stretching, and in fact the learned societies in Wales have backed the new qualification.

I didn't specifically refer to ALN in the statement because I've made numerous contributions in this Chamber about ALN and been very clear that it's a priority for me as Cabinet Secretary. I've already announced that we are reviewing the legislation and the code to make sure that it is easily understood and can be consistently implemented across Wales. I've also been very transparent about the inconsistent implementation of what is a good piece of legislation and that we need to do more in that space, and we have a full plan of how we are going to take that work forward, which is working with local authorities to make sure that everybody is consistently implementing the legislation to deliver for children and young people.

And finally, Adam Price.

I welcome the tacit admission in your statement of a situation where increasingly teachers are fearful for their physical safety and indeed their mental health, facing a torrent of abuse and violence in many situations. But what you're suggesting so far I don't think is sufficient in terms of urgency or seriousness. You say that you haven't ruled out holding a behaviour summit. Surely in a situation where many schools now have seen strikes because teachers are fearful for their safety, and we've had serious life-threatening incidents in schools throughout Wales, you should be holding that summit as an urgent priority, because a deep-dive and a behavioural toolkit, which we've been waiting for all year, simply is not sufficient.

Can I ask what specific changes are you going to be introducing now to make school communities safer for everyone? And can I suggest one specific one? In England, guidelines allow teachers to search pupils without their consent where necessary, where they have reasonable belief that they have prohibited items—weapons, knives, it could be alcohol, drugs et cetera. Teachers don't have that power currently in Wales. You could change the guidance now. That could potentially save lives. Why aren't you making that change?

Thank you very much, Adam. I am really worried about behaviour. I don't want anyone, whether it's children and young people or teachers, to feel unsafe in their working environment. Everybody has got a right to feel safe where they work. You'll be aware that all schools and settings are required to have a behaviour policy that promotes good pupil behaviour, and schools have a legal duty to provide a safe learning environment. As I said earlier, it does feel like the world has changed a lot, especially since the pandemic, and schools are now picking up the pieces on a range of really complex societal problems that, for some young people, are manifesting in really challenging behaviour. We're seeing more and more kids who are going to school emotionally dysregulated and it is a really challenging situation.

But I am taking action. I haven't ruled out having a summit. I want to have this discussion with the trade unions next week first, so that if we are going to have a summit, we do that in a way that ensures that we get the most possible that we can out of it. This headteachers conference is not just a minor deep-dive on Friday; we've got well over 100 secondary heads coming from across Wales and the focus of that is—. We're going to have a focus on behaviour. So, I will be taking action and if we require to have a summit, then we will have a summit, but I want to have those discussions first. 

Now, in terms of what you said about pupils being searched for knives et cetera, and weapons, schools are already able to screen pupils for a knife or other weapons and search pupils suspected of carrying weapons. This is a power rather than a duty, and there's no requirement on schools that choose not to use it; it's a matter for individual schools. You may also be interested to know that we're looking at publishing amended exclusions guidance in January, and that's going to further clarify provisions in relation to searching pupils without consent where they're suspected of carrying a weapon, and making it clearer that possessing or using a weapon can be grounds for exclusion from school. And we're also improving the data that we're collecting on this.

I thank the Cabinet Secretary. 

Item 6 is next, a statement by the Cabinet Secretary for Finance and Welsh Language, the UK budget. And I call on the Cabinet Secretary, Mark Drakeford. 

Diolch yn fawr, Dirprwy Lywydd. The UK budget presented by the Chancellor of the Exchequer last week represents a step change in the management of the UK’s financial affairs. The first female Chancellor in our history faced and met three key challenges: to place day-to-day spending on a sustainable footing; to start repairing the damage done to our public services over 14 years of Conservative Government; and to reform the approach to capital expenditure so that, in the words of the Chancellor, the country can invest, invest and invest in the conditions that create future economic growth and prosperity.

Dirprwy Lywydd, of course, it was never going to be possible to repair 14 years’ worth of damage within the first 14 weeks of a UK Labour Government. There is more to be done and, in the second part of the Chancellor’s comprehensive spending review, we will learn more of her plans in the spring. But last Wednesday was a very good start—a clean break with the failed policies of the past, and an equally clear path to a better and fairer future.

Dirprwy Lywydd, I want to be clear that I will not be dealing today with any Welsh Government decisions on the use of those resources that are now available to Wales. That will be for our budget-making process, the timing of which has been agreed with the Finance Committee, and where there are rights of the Senedd to be respected in that regard. That process will culminate when I publish the draft budget on 10 December. 

To return then to the facts of last week’s budget, as a result of the Chancellor’s statement, the Welsh Government will receive an additional £774 million in revenue for 2024-25, to include the cost of public sector pay deals already agreed in the current year. And we will receive an additional £49 million of capital. For next year, there are further increases of £695 million in resource and £235 million in capital.

I should just pause there for a moment, Dirprwy Lywydd, to let that last fact sink in: £235 million in additional capital expenditure. That is a real-terms 7 per cent increase in a single year. That compares with 0.5 per cent a year on average over the last 14 years. In 14 years of the last Conservative Governments, the annual uplift in capital available to the Welsh Government accumulated to the uplift we have now received in a single year.

Now, that additional capital will not fill every hole or undo all the damage inflicted on the fabric of our public services, but it is a different world to the one we had learned to fear under the last Government. In the March budget of this year, Jeremy Hunt provided an extra £1 million of capital to meet every need of Wales—to repair schools, to build new hospitals, for transport, for new homes and in every other aspect of Welsh life.

Dirprwy Lywydd, people in Wales are 235 times better off under a Labour Government, and that’s only in the first year of being in charge. Now, taken together, as a result of last week’s UK budget, there is an additional £1.7 billion in our overall settlement for use in 2025-26. And in amongst those headline figures was a series of announcements of particular relevance to Wales. In sharp contrast to the outgoing Conservative Government, my Labour colleagues have recognised the safety threat disused coal tips pose in Wales and will provide £25 million in the next financial year, alongside the Welsh Government’s continued investment. This funding will help accelerate the work already under way to address the increased risks of landslips as a result of climate change, and reflects the full sum put forward by the Welsh Government for the next financial year. We will work with the UK Government ahead of phase two of the spending review to ensure Wales’s needs for future years continue to be understood and to help make those tips safe for current and future generations.

In a related matter, I know how welcome it will have been in Wales to see the Chancellor right a long-standing injustice that successive Conservative Ministers had left in place. No more will the mineworkers’ pension scheme be raided to pay for Tory priorities. This UK Labour Government will transfer the investment reserve fund in the mineworkers’ pension scheme to the scheme’s trustees. And, Dirprwy Lywydd, let me thank the leadership of the south Wales National Union of Mineworkers in particular today for its tenacity and determination to see justice done. It has been far too long in coming, but, today, that leadership can be proud of what has been achieved for those Welsh miners and their families, who depend on the pension fund to which they contributed to sustain them in retirement and old age. 

The budget also deals with another matter of profound importance to a group of Welsh workers. Deep in the £22 billion black hole that the Chancellor had to fill last week was £80 million that had been promised to workers at Port Talbot but which had been left entirely unfunded. It has taken a Labour Government to put that right.

Dirprwy Lywydd, this Welsh Government has a clear determination to support the transition to a renewable energy future for Wales. Last week, that took another step forward, with the commitment from the UK Government to fund two hydrogen projects in Wales, in Bridgend and in Milford Haven. It is vital for our future that industry substantially reduces its reliance on fossil fuels and greenhouse gases. Hydrogen is one of the few ways to decarbonise some sectors of our economy, and we want Wales to play a leading part in creating that future.

Now, where working people are concerned, those on this side of the Chamber have always believed that those with the broadest shoulders should bear the greatest burden and that spending should be directed towards those whose needs are greatest. That is why we welcome the increase in the national living wage and the national minimum wage. In addition to the 6.7 per cent increase in the rate for workers aged 21 and above, which is 5 per cent above inflation, the gap with the 18 to 20-year-old rate has been narrowed. This is a significant step forward in ensuring a meaningful minimum wage floor, which will provide a much-needed uplift for so many low-paid workers.

The UK Government also confirmed its commitment to the triple lock on the state pension. This will now be uprated by 4.1 per cent in 2025-26, compared to the consumer price index, which stands at 1.7 per cent. This means the state pension will increase by up to £275 more than if it was increased in line with inflation, with more than 12 million pensioners gaining up to £470 next year. In her speech, the Chancellor also announced that the UK Government will reduce the level of debt repayments that can be taken from a household’s universal credit payment each month from 25 per cent to 15 per cent of their standard allowance. Punitive deductions from benefits had become one of the most pernicious policies of the outgoing Conservative Government. This one change alone, Dirprwy Lywydd, will mean 1.2 million of the poorest households in the land will keep more money in their pockets, gaining an average of £420 a year. When all of this is taken together, the distributional impact of last Wednesday's budget is clear to see: households in the lowest income brackets will benefit the most from the Chancellor's decisions, while unavoidable increases in tax will be concentrated amongst those households with the very highest incomes. That is what a progressive Government seeks do to, and, on Wednesday, the Chancellor did just that.

Dirprwy Lywydd, I said at the start that last week's budget was only the beginning of a two-stage process. There is more that needs to be done to tackle child poverty, to provide the Welsh Government with greater flexibility in the management of our own affairs, and to ensure a fair level of investment in railways in Wales, to mention just three.

Ministers here will now work with our counterparts in Westminster to secure further gains in the spring: standing up for Wales, uncompromising in our determination to make Welsh needs heard and understood, but now with the confidence of knowing that this can be a dialogue between partners who share the same values, and with a new platform, created by the budget, from which we can look ahead to future success.

Can I thank you, Cabinet Secretary, for your statement? Now, this is the first Labour Government budget for 15 years, and while I hoped the time away from Government had done Labour some good, clearly it hasn't. Despite all the spin, this is the same old Labour: borrowing more, taxing more, taking more of other people's money. It's a clear fact—it's a clear fact—that Labour misled the public massively, and broke manifesto pledges, from the draconian attacks on pensioners to the hits on business, and don't forget the £40 billion hike in tax. Let's just pause on that for a second. Forty billion pounds' worth of tax. The statement mentions nothing about where the money was coming from; it talks about how it's going to be spent. The increased employers' national insurance on businesses here in Wales will negatively affect them; it will suppress economic growth, cost jobs and suppress wages—a direct impact on thousands of working people for years to come.

It's clear the Government had choices. It was Keir Starmer's choice to axe winter fuel payments, and it was the Chancellor's choice to hike up taxes on business and working people, showing their true colours. Whilst there is an increase of budget consequentials for Wales, the Chancellor is playing a dangerous game by maxing out the country's credit card—fiscal fiddling to allow more borrowing. Roughly half of the additional spending has come about from a massive increase in borrowing, so this is not free money and will saddle our children and grandchildren with massive debts on into the future. Yes, Wales is getting consequentials, but much of this will need to be diverted towards the public sector to pay for the rise in national insurance. Cabinet Secretary, a specific question: with more than 330,000 employees in the public sector, what portion do you believe of the additional £1.7 billion will have to be made available to the public sector to cover these additional national insurance costs? 

We've heard so much about growth by Labour politicians here in Wales and in Westminster, but how can Welsh businesses grow when they pay the highest levels of business rates in Great Britain, while also paying more taxes on hiring new employees? Government can't create growth—they can only create conditions for growth. It's business that creates growth. The Chancellor has got things massively wrong.

I want to turn to the matter of farms, even though it's been talked about here many times today. In Wales, farmers continue to get a rough time from Labour policy makers. [Interruption.] I don't need to declare an interest: I'm a tenant. I listened to you, Cabinet Secretary, last night, on Sharp End, where you were trying to defend Labour's hit on family farms by withdrawing agricultural inheritance relief, but you must see—you must see—how damaging this will be for the industry. Farmers have very little cash resource, contrary to common belief, and the ability to pay huge inheritance tax, even over 10 years, even with the 20 per cent rather than 40 per cent—. The spin, and it clearly is spin, to suggest that most farms won't be affected shows how out of touch Labour are with rural reality. This Welsh Labour Government should stand up to Westminster to say, 'This is wrong', for the sake of our future generations and the sake of our food security.

Finally, on the point of HS2 funding, clearly this budget hasn't allocated any extra money as a result of HS2 spending. So, can you confirm whether or not the Government will continue to support being short-changed, or will you join this Chamber and call for the billions of pounds that are owed to Wales as the Secretary of State for Wales, Jo Stevens, consistently called for?

Cabinet Secretary, what is your assessment of the damage to Welsh businesses, of all descriptions, caused by the Chancellor's choice to level huge tax increases on them? Cabinet Secretary, I hope that this Welsh Labour Government will choose to stand up against these damaging attacks on Welsh pensioners, Welsh businesses and the rural community, and call out this snatch-and-grab budget.

Well, Dirprwy Lywydd, of course I disagree with Peter Fox in almost every way. We have a different approach on these benches to the one that was followed in the last 14 years. We believe that we have to rescue the UK economy from the state it had got into as a result of the policies of austerity, in which we have had low wage growth, low productivity, low growth, and an economy of the size of the United Kingdom simply cannot have that as its ambition for the future. Instead, we saw a prospectus on Wednesday of last week that lays a path to putting this country back on track to economic growth and, as a result, the investment that we will need in our public services will become available to us.

The Chancellor’s decision to borrow more and to redefine the way in which we think about debt was described by the Financial Times as 'moderately radical'. All the Chancellor has done is, instead of simply counting the liabilities that we have as a country, she counts the assets that we get when that investment is made. It is the way in which public debt is understood in many other countries of a comparable sort, and it allows the Chancellor to make those investments that will make such a difference here in Wales and will allow businesses to be able to thrive.

I heard everything that Peter Fox said about national insurance contributions. I just remind him that all the Chancellor has done is to return national insurance contributions to where they were for 13 of the 14 years in which his party was in power. That is all she has done. If it was such a disastrous decision, how come, for 13 years, his party sustained that position? It's not a disastrous decision for most businesses in Wales, and the Chancellor's decision to raise employment allowance means that, for many, many of the smallest businesses here in Wales, there will be no impact from the rise in national insurance contributions at all.

Peter Fox asked me a particular question about national insurance contributions from public sector employers. The UK Government has said today that it will use the Office for National Statistics' definition of a public service employee, the same definition used by the last Government, and will provide funding to the public service to cover the costs of national insurance contributions for those workers.

Two further questions from the opposition lead on the budget, Dirprwy Lywydd. As far as farms are concerned, we've heard a great deal about this already today. Let me just repeat what the Exchequer Secretary to the Treasury said in the House of Commons last week, and this is actual data. There's no spin in this at all. This is what the facts of the matter are, because we are looking back here to the latest figures that are available. We're not projecting into the future; we're looking at what the actual facts were. So, the year for which data is most recently available is 2021-22. Where farming assets were concerned, the median value of assets declared as part of the winding up of estates was £486,000. Three quarters of all estates claim for assets below £1 million, and as such, when probate was being considered, those estates paid no inheritance tax at all. Indeed, across the whole of the United Kingdom, there were just 463 claims for agricultural relief that were more than £1 million. This is why Paul Johnson, the director of the Institute for Fiscal Studies, has concluded that the changes will affect a remarkably small number of some of the most valuable farms. Those are the facts of the matter.

We've heard here across the Chamber some of the most alarmist talk you can imagine about a tax that will bring the position of farms back to where they were in the years of the Thatcher Government. In those days, exactly the regime that is proposed now was in place, and when I say that the broadest shoulders have to bear some of the burden, I do not think that many Welsh citizens will believe that paying half what any other citizen would pay in inheritance tax, on estates where practically they will need to be worth £2 million before you need to begin that, and where you have 10 years to make that payment, I don't think there will be many Welsh citizens that feel that is an intrinsically unfair deal.

Could I thank the Cabinet Secretary for the statement today? After 14 years of damaging budgets under the Tories in Westminster, of course there are some things to be welcomed in this budget.

Of course, the £25 million allocated to the work of making coal tips safer is something that I know that we agree on, Cabinet Secretary, which should have happened many years ago, but which is an important step forward in terms of the United Kingdom Government starting to take responsibility for something previous Labour and Conservative Governments should have done, long before this Senedd existed. I would be grateful today if you could outline whether you have received any assurance that the remaining funds needed will follow in the coming years, so that the work can go ahead as part of an extended programme. I know that I don't have to explain to you how important that is, especially given the impact of climate change on these coal tips, as was seen in Tylorstown following storm Dennis in 2020.

Also, we welcome, of course, the compensation payments for those affected by the contaminated blood scandal, and the Horizon scandal with the post office, together, as you referred to, with bringing the injustice regarding the miners' pension fund to an end. The increase in the national living wage will also be a boost for many here in Wales.

However, while there are some things that constitute a step in the right direction, it is also important that we, as a Senedd, recognise our ongoing challenges and also state clearly our disappointment that some basic things are missing from this budget. There is no denying that some of the most cruel and damaging policies of the previous Tory Government are continuing under Labour, and that therefore, unlike what the First Minister said earlier, austerity is continuing, despite a change in the party in power in Westminster. It was therefore not the change that so many people in Wales were asking for.

Because austerity is not in line with socialist values. We know that the callous policies of the previous UK Government, such as the two-child benefit cap, have contributed to more children living in poverty here in Wales. And not only have UK Labour continued with this policy, they have also introduced their own damaging policies by withdrawing the winter fuel allowance from thousands of pensioners here in Wales—a measure that will, by the admission of the Cabinet Secretary for Social Justice, exacerbate rates of pensioner poverty, and, as the Older People's Commissioner for Wales warned, will lead to additional deaths in Wales this winter. Further, the chief executive of Disability Wales has said that austerity in fact worsens in this budget, as Labour has committed to making billions of pounds of cuts to disability and incapacity benefits, and is proceeding with the cruel Tory proposals to tighten the work capability assessment. I'd like to ask therefore what assessment the Welsh Government has made of the impact of the budget on our most vulnerable citizens, and how you intend to mitigate the continuation of austerity.

Another concern, of course, is the increase in the rate of employer national insurance contributions. This was outlined quite clearly by my colleague Sioned Williams earlier, when she questioned the First Minister regarding the letter all of us received from Citizens Advice organisations in Wales yesterday. I wonder if you could elaborate, please, because the First Minister couldn’t respond earlier, on what assessment you have made of the impact on the third sector. They will not be able to fund this increase. We know how vital the services they provide are for many in our communities, and unfortunately, this seems to be one of the unintended consequences of this decision in the budget. So, what is your response to the concerns raised, and how will the impact be mitigated?

Of course, there are key areas missing from the budget, and I would like to know today whether these are things Welsh Government asked for, and if so, could you please clarify what the responses were? And these are—and it will come as no surprise, I’m sure—firstly the billions of pounds Wales is owed in HS2 consequentials; secondly, the devolution of the Crown Estate so that we can directly benefit from our own natural resources, not an appointment of a commissioner to represent Wales, but the devolution of the Crown Estate, as has happened in Scotland; thirdly, a fair funding deal from Westminster to replace the outdated Barnett formula; and also fourthly, changing the Welsh Government’s extremely limited borrowing powers and ability to carry over funds from one year to the next. And without these, it is difficult to see how the additional money cited in this budget does any more than simply plug the gaps in our public finances, with many public services remaining under considerable strain. There are so many questions that remain, but time isn’t on my side today, so if I can press on you, do you think we will see any movement regarding HS2, the Crown Estate, and the replacement of Barnett, or have your requests fallen on deaf ears?

Can I start by thanking Heledd Fychan for her comments on coal tips, and a few other things that I didn’t have an opportunity to mention, such as Horizon, and contaminated blood, and so on?

On the broader issues that the Member raised, I don’t think I could have said it more clearly near the start of the statement that it was never our expectation that every accumulated difficulty of 14 years was going to be solved in only 14 weeks. That is how long the Labour Government had to create the budget that the Chancellor set out last week, and in it, there are a series of steps that demonstrate how Welsh needs and circumstances have been heard and have been attended to.

I said at the end of my contribution that there were a series of matters that remain to be addressed. That is why we have a two-stage comprehensive spending review approach. Of course, Welsh Ministers will continue to make the case for proper funding of rail services here in Wales, on reform of the Barnett formula, on the flexibilities that were in Labour’s manifesto, and I do expect that come the spring, we will see further resolution of some of these really important matters.

Is it a fair expectation that, even by the spring, absolutely everything will be resolved? The Barnett formula has been in existence since 1978. I don’t think it’s realistic to expect that absolutely fundamental reform is going to be achieved just in six months. It will require a very large effort involving all four nations of the United Kingdom. This Government is absolutely clear about the need for that to happen and I won’t regard it as a failure if that hasn’t been completely done, dusted and delivered by the spring of the first year of a Labour Government.

And can I say to the Member, in all seriousness, that we have seen what real austerity means in Wales in this Chamber? We’ve seen it year after year. And £1.7 billion—and we would have had no chance at all of having it under the previous Government—will be available to us in Wales next year. That doesn’t mean that all our problems are over; of course it doesn’t. It is a start on that journey of repair. But to describe that as austerity, when we've seen what real austerity is like, really, I don't think fairly represents the scale of what the Chancellor was able to do for Wales on Wednesday.

There are nine other Members who wish to speak, and we've used two thirds of our time, so it does depend on your colleagues keeping to the time they're allocated to ensure I call as many as I can. Hannah Blythyn.

Thank you, and thank you for your statement, Cabinet Secretary. I thank you for your work on this.

As we've heard today, and as you've said, this budget is to be welcomed, and it's very much a step in the right direction on the road to recovery from the age of austerity, but we recognise the reality that there is a long path ahead when it comes to reversing the impact on our public services. I very much heard what you said at the outset of your contribution, Cabinet Secretary, around this not being I think the time to call for certain funding, and there'll be a shopping list, no doubt, of calls on and demands for where extra funding is needed in Wales. But social care was referenced in the UK Government's budget, so I think it would be remiss of me not to use this opportunity just to make the case for social care, because we know the NHS is a priority, but unless we support and invest in social care too, then we will not get to where we want to be with the NHS. So, I just want to make the case for that, but also, actually, place on record the recognition of my own local authority, Flintshire, in terms of their efforts to keep social care in-house, but also invest in infrastructure. So, can I just ask for assurances, Cabinet Secretary, today that in those budget discussions now going forward as a Welsh Government serious consideration be given to the role that social care and local authorities play in that? Diolch.

Dirprwy Lywydd, I thank Hannah Blythyn for that. I said in opening that I'm not dealing with the way in which the Welsh Government will deploy the resources that come our way this afternoon, but I hear very much what she said about social care. I heard very much what Peter Fox said the week before recess about the need to think of the health and social care system in the round in the way that we invest in it. I'm looking forward to meeting our local authority leads in the next week or so to hear directly from them about the pressures that, undoubtedly, they face and how we can begin to help them on that road to recovery as well.

Cabinet Secretary, thank you for your statement today. What we're told is the NHS is exempt from tax rises. However, as colleagues have said, social care and GP surgeries are not, and they have raised serious concerns that tax rises could really impact the delivery of the services that they have in looking after the most vulnerable and sick people in our society. A lot of those practices and social care providers are locked into contracts with health boards and with local authorities, so what assurances can you give them that the Welsh Government will support them through these tax rises to make sure that the general population of Wales can still get access to the services that they really need?

I thank James Evans for those important points. They are important points. I give you an assurance that they will be discussed within the Cabinet as we come to deploy the resources available to us, and I've heard very clearly the points he's made this afternoon.

Taxation is not a burden, it's our entry fee to a civilised society. I welcome many of the measures in the budget, I especially welcome the increase in the minimum wage, for far too many people that is the hourly rate they will receive. I'm disappointed that capital gains tax and dividend income were not merged into income tax and taxed accordingly. Has the finance Minister discussed a technical change in how debt is calculated with the Chancellor? If borrowing to fund council housing was balanced by the value of the property, then, like financial transaction capital, it would not count against the public sector borrowing requirement.

I welcome the acknowledgement of the safety threat disused coal tips pose in Wales and the provision of £25 million in 2025-26 alongside the Welsh Government's continued investment. I would just like to remind people that a lot of those tips were made by Welsh coal mine owners. Will the Cabinet Secretary confirm that this is outside the Barnett consequential and can be added to in future years?

Dirprwy Lywydd, I'm very happy to confirm that the £25 million is outside Barnett. The Welsh Government made a case to the Treasury for three-year funding for coal tip safety. I failed to answer the point that Heledd Fychan made on this, so I'll answer it now, if I could, which is that we do intend, of course, to pursue years 2 and 3 in the spring budget. The Chancellor was clear this was a budget for one year, there'll be a further two years of revenue and three years of capital in the announcement she makes in the spring, and we will continue to pursue that full £91 million over three years, which we put to the Treasury for coal tip safety purposes.

It's not an exaggeration to say that there is a funding crisis in local government. With councils in Wales facing spending pressures of over £0.5 billion this year alone, which are expected to rise to almost £0.75 billion by 2027-28, it's clear that the additional funding announced in the budget will only go so far in mitigating these pressures. Can you give clarity on the implications of the rise of employer NICs in the public sector and to those organisations supporting it? Can you give assurances to local government that their already overstretched resources will not be further adversely affected by the need to implement central Government policies? And therefore, can you confirm if the UK Treasury will fully reimburse the additional costs of the rise in employer NICs in the public sector, or does the consequential funding of £1.9 billion already take this into account? I didn't hear you answer that when Peter Fox asked it, so if you could clarify that for us, please.

I think I did try to answer it when Peter Fox asked that question, Dirprwy Lywydd. I'll try again. The Treasury has said today that there will be additional funding for public sector workers to cover the costs of employer national insurance contributions. It will use the ONS definition of what is a public sector worker, and it will provide full funding to deal with the national insurance contributions of employers in those circumstances, and that is above and beyond the £1.7 billion that I've talked about this afternoon.

I agree very much with the analysis of the Cabinet Secretary. This is part 1 of a budget process that marks the end of austerity, and I think it will be welcomed on most sides of the Chamber. We've seen the damage that Brexit and austerity have done to our economy and to our communities, and the Conservatives should be apologising for that. I particularly welcome the coal tips restoration funding, which the Cabinet Secretary has already referred to, and like by him, the miners' pension scheme is absolutely important and is to be welcomed by everybody.

What I hope now is that we can start to debate part 2 of this budget process, and for me, the financial framework is the absolute centre of that debate and discussion. With the needs-based formula now being introduced in Northern Ireland, it is clear that Wales is in a uniquely disadvantaged position in the United Kingdom when it comes to the allocation and the redistribution of funding across the UK. It is therefore essential to the future of our people, our communities, our public services and our economy that we have a needs-based formula that ensures that Wales has the funds that it needs and requires—

Ask your question now, please.

—for the future.

Well, I thank Alun Davies for both of those points, Dirprwy Lywydd. I agree with him about the financial framework. It's there in Labour's manifesto, it doesn't actually cost the Treasury anything, it just means that we are better able to use the money we have in the most efficient and effective way. Though, Welsh Government has long argued for the reform of Barnett and its replacement by a needs-based formula; it's there in 'Reforming our Union', which has survived a number of First Ministers since it was first published. And we will continue to make that case with our UK colleagues, but not just our UK colleagues. As I've said in answering earlier questions, if the current system is to be reformed, it will have to be by the agreement of all four component parts of the United Kingdom and nobody should think that that is going to be a straightforward or easy thing to bring about.

Thank you, Cabinet Secretary. Now, look, you can pat yourselves on the back if it makes you feel better, but the reality is that this budget is so bad for the people of Wales, and actually the UK, that it's had the thumbs down already from many within our finance institutions and our constituents. Now, much has been said today about the fact that you're having this money—over £25 million, is it, for the coal tip safety? You've had 25 years to deal with it. It's been your responsibility for 25 years, so, arguably, you're getting £1 million per year in overdue payments. There has been a mammoth task, with the Welsh Government setting up a taskforce, including the Coal Authority, 14 council areas, as far as Wrexham and Pembrokeshire, and Natural Resources Wales to examine and survey the tips. In the wake of storms, additional monitoring is now required, with new technology involving drones and other specialist equipment being employed. The reality is that addressing this could cost considerably more than £25 million; I think a figure from the benches over there was around £300 million.

You need to ask your question, please.

Yes. You've let down our farmers, you've betrayed our small businesses, you've robbed our pensioners. How can you, Cabinet Secretary for finance, tell me and my group here that this is a good budget? Remember, the Labour Government inherited the fastest growing growth in the G7—

Thank you, Janet.

—and also, you left a legacy of no money.

Well, Dirprwy Lywydd, I don't know where to begin. Of course, we certainly did not inherit the fastest growing economy; we inherited an economy that was on its knees as a result of starvation as a result of 14 years of austerity. Let me simply deal with the coal tips issue—

Sorry, Cabinet Secretary. I want to hear the answers to the questions you raised, so, to all Members, stop talking across the Chamber and let the Cabinet Secretary respond.

Let me deal with the issue of coal tip safety, as that is the one point I heard a question on in what Janet Finch-Saunders had to say. The figure of £600 million is what is required over a period of 10 to 15 years. The Welsh Government has already invested millions and millions of pounds in addressing the worst risks to local communities. We did so as a result of a committee jointly chaired by myself, as the First Minister at the time, and Simon Hart, as the Secretary of State for Wales. I have no doubt, myself, that Mr Hart made representations to the Treasury so that there would be a contribution from the UK Government to set alongside the money that the Welsh Government has already provided. The Treasury turned him down; that's what the Conservative-led Treasury did. The Welsh Government now has £25 million next year as a result of a Labour Government, and people in Wales will see the difference that that will make.

Well, after over a decade of austerity it seems like, finally, we've got a Government that understands that public services are needed as building blocks to grow the economy. We need educated people, we need skills, we need healthy people and we need access to public transport. This morning, I heard about nurses who are now calling for a pay increase. This is about people in our local communities who should be well paid, and this is such a positive budget for me.

Cabinet Secretary, I understand that it is going to take a while, though, to rebuild our public services after 14 years of austerity, and that many are on a knife edge. So, how are you going to develop the short and long-term plans, working with the UK Government? I know that you've got the budget here and now, but you need to have the vision over the long term as well, going forward. Thank you.

Well, Dirprwy Lywydd, the long-term vision is one in which a partnership between the Welsh Government and the UK Government invests in the conditions that create economic growth. What the Conservative Party, and I hear comments from those benches, has always failed to understand is that it's public investment that crowds in private investment, not crowds it out. For businesses to thrive, you need to have public services and public investment that give them the platform from which they can be a success. That will be the long-term ambition of this Government and the new UK Government, even as, in the short run, we have to repair some of the most immediate damage and the challenges faced in our health service, in our local authorities, in our universities, in the third sector—the list is endless. Fourteen years of austerity have moved far too many organisations towards the brink; now we have a chance not to put everything right, but to move them back and then in the right direction.

Even with some of the welcome steps made by the Chancellor on public spending, there are decisions made in the budget that will bake in inequality and will, inevitably, increase Welsh Government spending. It was very disappointing not to hear the first female Chancellor—so historic—mention childcare once in her speech, given its importance in tackling socioeconomic and gender inequality.

The National Day Nurseries Association told the Senedd's Equality and Social Justice Committee that 88 per cent of Welsh childcare settings expect next year to either break even or make a loss. We have heard from these providers that they're already in a precarious financial position, so the increase to employers' national insurance contributions, they say, will further endanger the sector's viability. The Welsh Government has refused to commit to funding childcare provision in Wales through the Barnett consequentials it received from the previous announcement on funding for England, and it has cut by millions the budget for early years during the last year. So, will the Welsh Government now need to provide the necessary funding for this critical sector to mitigate the new NIC costs and to ensure expansion of affordable childcare in Wales?

The childcare policies pursued in Wales are the policies agreed between Plaid Cymru and the Labour Government. They are there in the co-operation agreement, and that is what we have been implementing. I think that those policies have been a considerable success, with thousands more children in childcare, and in proper childcare, in Wales, as a result of the joint work that we have done. I will look, of course, at what is needed to sustain the childcare sector when it comes to making budget proposals to the Senedd. But I am surprised to hear a Plaid Cymru Member choose to attack the childcare record in Wales when it is the record of her party and this Government working together. 

And finally, Joyce Watson.

Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd. You can't undo in 14 weeks the damage that was done in 14 years. Public services, we all agree, are the bedrock of our communities, and that's echoed in this Chamber by the request by both the Tories and Plaid to increase the spending in those services on behalf of their constituents. So, you would expect for once that they might welcome that investment, but I haven't heard any of that here today.

We also would agree that carers hold both their families and their communities together. Unpaid carers will be able to earn £45 more per week without losing entitlement to their carers allowances, and paid carers will also get a pay rise in terms of the minimum wage and the living wage upgrade. That has to be good news, but I haven't heard any of that.

What is also good news, Cabinet Secretary—

You need to ask your question, please.

—is the investment and support for the electrolytic hydrogen projects that will support low-carbon production and create new jobs in Pembrokeshire, along with—

Joyce, you need to ask your question, please.

So, my question to you, Cabinet Secretary, is this: will you welcome that investment that I've just mentioned and remind the Tories and Plaid that they asked for money for the public sector, they've got money for the public sector, and it's time they welcomed it?

Joyce Watson is absolutely right that there is a great deal to celebrate in this budget, and there's a great deal to celebrate in the budget for the area that she represents, not simply the hydrogen investment at Milford Haven, but the fact that the Celtic free port has been moved along in the budget.

I thank Joyce Watson for what she said about carers, Dirprwy Lywydd. I didn't have time in my statement to draw attention, as she rightly has done, to the increases in the income that unpaid carers will be able to earn without affecting their allowances in future. And I very much welcomed what the Chancellor said in her statement as well about looking to right the wrongs of the past where those unpaid carers have been concerned.

Thank you, Cabinet Secretary.

We'll move on now to item 4, a statement by the Cabinet Secretary for social justice on the 'Anti-racist Wales Action Plan'. I call on the Cabinet Secretary, Jane Hutt.

Diolch yn fawr, Dirprwy Lywydd. In June 2022, the whole Senedd endorsed the bold and ambitious 'Anti-racist Wales Action Plan', marking a commitment to tackle systemic and structural race inequality and take an actively anti-racist approach. This helps to deliver on our programme for government commitment to build a fairer, more inclusive Wales. The ‘Anti-racist Wales Action Plan’, ArWAP, was co-produced with direct input from our black, Asian and minority ethnic people and organisations across Wales, and it was developed in the context of the deep racial inequalities highlighted by the racist killing of George Floyd and the Black Lives Matter movement.

It was also a response to the disproportionate number of deaths of ethnic minority people during the pandemic. Inequality and racism continue to be felt very deeply by ethnic minority people and communities in Wales. The recent violent disorder in England and racism and Islamophobia that accompanied and followed in Wales and across the UK have been deeply disturbing. Conflict in the middle east has also led to a rise in Islamophobia and antisemitism. Black, Asian and minority ethnic people are seeking reassurance that we remain committed to an anti-racist Wales. The refreshed plan is an important part of providing this reassurance.

Since the inception of the Senedd, successive Governments have sought to mainstream equality, and this plan strives to embed anti-racism in policy making, leadership and culture across the Welsh Government and the wider public sector. This is extraordinarily challenging and requires our long-term commitment to systemic and cultural change. And when we remove barriers and tackle inequality and discrimination, public services become more efficient, social cohesion improves and we create and support thriving communities for current and future generations.

The first 2022-23 ArWAP annual report, published in December 2023, detailed the progress made across government. Achievements include, for example, over 25,000 education practitioners having accessed resources and professional learning through the Welsh Government's diversity and anti-racist professional learning project. This translates into teachers and professionals being much better equipped to understand and embed anti-racism. There will be improvements in the experiences of ethnic minority women accessing maternity and neonatal health through investment into a national maternity digitalisation project. In housing, the Get Into Housing project is encouraging diversity in housing association workplaces by offering work placements to ethnic minority people experiencing long-term unemployment. In culture, there has been significant work to reflect anti-racism, including the community-led Reframing Picton exhibition addressing historical injustices.

In a powerful reminder of the role that the plan plays in bringing people closer to the Welsh language, I'm pleased to share the inspiring work of the Coleg Cymraeg Cenedlaethol.

In March 2023, as part of their Perthyn project, they hosted a first-of-its-kind panel event here at the Senedd, where ethnic minority Welsh speakers from various sectors shared their unique experiences. This was an opportunity for us all to gain insight into what it means to be both from an ethnic minority community and a Welsh speaker. Building on this important work, the coleg has since launched the Sbarduno project, a new mentoring programme designed to support ethnic minority students who speak Welsh.

I encourage all Members to watch the video of the Sbarduno project as a positive example of how our anti-racist work is engaging with the aims of 'Cymraeg 2050'.

Systemic and cultural change takes time, and the plan is rightly ambitious. There is still a very long way to go to achieve an anti-racist Wales, but the refreshed plan builds on the achievements so far and the significant structural foundations laid. In conjunction with the lessons learnt, the plan focuses on delivery and tangible improvement in the outcomes for ethnic minority people in Wales.

It focuses on achieving measurable impact and meaningful change. We have to understand whether the plan is driving the change we are striving for, and key to being able to measure impact and outcomes is improving data quality, building research capacity and engaging with people with lived experience. The race disparity evidence unit has developed a framework that sets out how to measure and evaluate the impact of the anti-racist Wales action plan. This will be published before recess.

The refreshed ArWAP takes into account the recommendations of the Equality and Social Justice Committee's ‘Actions not words: towards an anti-racist Wales by 2030’ report, which provided valuable insights into the progress of the plan published in 2022, and I thank the committee for their engagement and evidence.

The refreshed plan has been co-produced with the external accountability group and the implementation of the original ArWAP has been overseen by them. The external accountability group is co-chaired by the Permanent Secretary and Professor Emmanuel Ogbonna. It places lived experience and expertise at the heart of accountability in a way that is unprecedented, and the group will continue to provide support and guidance and hold us to account on delivery.

The refreshed plan also brings together our nation of sanctuary commitments from our 2019 plan, actions in the original plan and our global refugee forum pledge 2023 into a refreshed ‘Wales—a nation of sanctuary’ chapter. The publication of the plan today enables me to make clear the Welsh Government’s ongoing and unwavering commitment to Wales as a nation of sanctuary.

The refreshed ArWAP includes six cross-cutting themes that the external accountability group felt were essential to successful delivery: leadership; intersectionality; data and research; Gypsy, Roma and Traveller equity; positive action; and complaints processes. The plan addresses how different forms of discrimination intersect and compound one another, impacting on individuals in different ways.

Given the importance of leadership in driving cultural change, whilst other chapters have been refreshed, the leadership chapter has been significantly strengthened. This reflects the leadership role the Welsh Government has and the importance of improving diversity within our organisation, in public appointments and across the wider public sector.

We are in the process of appointing four ArWAP regional convenors who will engage directly with our ethnic minority people to create safe and collaborative spaces to test anti-racist policies on the ground. These fora will allow sharing of lived experiences, opportunities to provide and signpost support, celebrate cultural events, and promote community cohesion.

Importantly, the refreshed plan reaffirms our commitment to anti-racism. It places an emphasis on outcomes that benefit everyone. A fairer Wales is more resilient, and positive change in one sector leads to improvements across others, from housing to education to public safety. In the long term, this means a more economically resilient Wales, reducing costs associated with inequalities, lack of workforce diversity, and social exclusion.

I look forward to working collaboratively with everyone in Wales to embed anti-racism in everything we do, to create a truly anti-racist Wales, a Wales in which we can all be proud to belong, and in which each one of us can thrive.

Thank you, Cabinet Secretary, for your statement and for your time yesterday to discuss this plan further. Like everyone else here, I believe it's extremely important that we tackle racism in our society, and I wholeheartedly support your intentions of creating a plan that systematically addresses this issue.

However, I'm enormously frustrated by the fact that any progress that seems to be made with regard to this is undermined by the actions of a few people. I am, of course, referring to the appalling actions by the Labour MP Dawn Butler in sharing a Tweet describing Kemi Badenoch as a

'member of white supremacy's black collaborator class'

and representing 'white supremacy in blackface', and bizarrely suggesting, and I quote, that

'a victory for Badenoch is an obvious, unprecedented and once inconceivable victory for racism'.

I appreciate that you may see this as a UK Government issue, but I'd like to point out that we are all part of the United Kingdom, and every corner is affected by this. You talk in your plan about learning and leadership, but there appears to be a lack of this in the Labour Party as a whole. We should never forget the comments of Rupa Huq MP, who had to apologise to the then Chancellor, Kwasi Kwarteng, for describing him as 'superficially black', and the Labour MP Zarah Sultana, who has publicly stated, and I quote, that Kemi Badenoch

'is one of the most nasty & divisive figures in British politics'

and that her election marks a shift to the far right. In reality, Cabinet Secretary, the Welsh Government, as part of your anti-racist plan, should be showing leadership on this and publicly calling out any acts of racism, and, in this case, using any influence you have to put pressure on Sir Keir Starmer to put a stop to the racial hate that exists amongst some Labour Party politicians. You should be publicly voicing your concerns that Dawn Butler has not been suspended from the Labour Party, because, Cabinet Secretary—and I'm not making this as a political point—the truth is if the Labour Party are not going to take action against racism in its ranks, then you lose credibility and people are going to see your plan as not worth the paper it is printed on. 

I am not blaming you in any way, and I'm sure that you were just as shocked as anyone else here. But I hope you see my point: you have to see how the lack of any substantial action towards people in the Labour Party, like Dawn Butler and others, for comments they choose to share, is a slap in the face to you and the work you're trying to do here, because it says to ethnic minorities and people of colour that if you have a voice or an opinion that differs to what people believe you should conform to, then you're not only racist but a race traitor. This, Cabinet Secretary, should not be tolerated whatsoever. Therefore, will you take this opportunity to publicly recognise the negative consequences of Dawn Butler's actions to our desire to end racism, and publicly call for her to be stripped of the Labour Party whip because of her comments?

With that said, I would like to pick up a few things from the anti-racist action plan. Firstly, you have aspirations of a recruitment target of 20 per cent of all successful candidates recruited externally to be from an ethnic minority background, in order to reflect the 6 per cent of the population in Wales that are from a minority ethnic background. The issue with this, as I see it, is that this creates a bias in the recruitment system, and, whilst I see what you are trying to achieve, I don't think it actually stops racism. If anything, I think it can actually contribute to it, because it can easily create a sense that ethnic minority communities have been given jobs to meet a Welsh Government target rather than their ability to do the job, and this further creates the public impression that ethnic minorities do not need to work as hard as others to get public sector jobs. You have talked about improving social cohesion, but I think this 20 per cent target decreases it.

I believe, Cabinet Secretary, that it would be better to implement a system whereby job applications are completely anonymous until the final stages, and that recruitment panels could be ethnically diverse to ensure impartiality with regards to race or ethnicity. This would ensure that the best candidates are picked for roles and that there's a fair recruitment process. It would also mean that anyone who is employed from an ethnic minority background is seen, without question, to be the best person for that job. Moreover, we have to accept that there's an inherent bias towards the types of jobs that different ethnic groups and different genders will seek out and, therefore, if you're going to aim to improve ethnic diversity among the public sector, I believe that you would need to look at this on the whole and look carefully at the nuances of the types of employment areas that groups gravitate towards, and not have targets for every department. Do you accept, Cabinet Secretary, that this 20 per cent target can in itself encourage racism, and will you look to amend it accordingly?

Finally, Cabinet Secretary, I'd like to pick up a point about racism and xenophobia towards white people. You have said that inequality and racism continues to be felt very deeply by ethnic minority communities in Wales, and I believe this is true for all communities. We only have to see the statistics regarding white working-class boys. Sadly, also—and this is something that is expressed to me quite regularly, and we see it covered quite regularly in the media—in some areas across Wales, there's a fundamental dislike towards English people, who are seen as foreigners and outsiders, and that it is culturally unacceptable to exclude them or to make racist remarks about them. You make no mention of this in your action plan, which, in my mind, shows that you have completely ignored this as something that exists. Until this is addressed, you won't make the strides in making Wales the anti-racist nation we would all like to see. With this in mind, what action will you take to recognise that racism and inequality exists towards white Welsh and English people, and accept that measures need to be put into place to help stop this as well? Thank you.

Well, thank you very much, Joel James. I was hopeful, when you started with your comments and questions, that you were actually seeking to recognise the importance of this 'Anti-racist Wales Action Plan'—the refreshed 'Anti-racist Wales Action Plan'—that actually has been co-produced by black, Asian and minority ethnic people in Wales, in your constituency, in your region, and with commitment not just across this Government, in the public sector, by local government, the third sector, and all the equality organisations that have engaged. So, I struggle to see or to hear of anything positive from the points that you made.

I do want to say that it was really important today that the First Minister congratulated Kemi Badenoch on being elected by the Conservative Party to be their leader.

I did mention in my opening statement that I was very thankful to the Equality and Social Justice Committee for the work that they did on 'Action, not words: towards an anti-racist Wales by 2030'. Now, that is a cross-party committee, which I understand you are a member of, and, on your point, the point that you make about our targets in the Welsh Government to have a more diverse Welsh Government public service, I do note that recommendation 1 was that:

'The Welsh Government should continue performing a central leadership role by prioritising actions that demonstrate its commitment to an anti-racist Wales.'

Well, obviously you don't agree with that, from the words that you've said today, because it goes on to say, 

'redoubling efforts to diversify its workforce by the 2025-26 financial year and sharing best practice in relation to anti-racist recruitment, mentoring and retention policies with other organisations;

'improving its performance on narrowing the ethnicity pay gap'.

I really welcome that recommendation, but I would like to draw your attention—. And I hope you have actually read the refreshed plan, because it actually does describe in detail how we want to go about ensuring that we deliver on that very recommendation that came from the cross-party Equality and Social Justice Committee. And just to say, yes, in that plan, in the refreshed plan, leadership from Welsh Government as an employer is absolutely critical. We have an action, a recruitment target:

'20% of all successful candidates recruited externally to be from an ethnic minority background in order to reflect the 6% of the population in Wales that are ethnic minority. As a result, at least 6% of all staff at all levels of the Welsh Government will be from an ethnic minority.'

Now, that is an ambition that we will be holding—and, indeed, this is something that the whole Welsh Government and Cabinet has supported—working with the Permanent Secretary responsible for recruitment policies, to deliver, because we know, as I've said, that a more diverse workforce, particularly in terms of our public services, will deliver the policies and the resilience that we need to serve our communities in the most appropriate way.

Also, and this is something, of course, where I've been meeting with groups of people, the Wales TUC most recently; I'm meeting with them about our diversity and inclusion guidance that we're developing for political parties. I'm doing a statement on that next week, and I hope there will be support from across the Chamber about what we're saying for guidance. But this point that's coming over is it's not just about not being able to get jobs, not feeling it's worth being able to get jobs, but also barriers to black, Asian and minority ethnic people. And that's why you have to have that recruitment target, to ensure that people feel that they have got an opportunity, that we do want to ensure that they can have an opportunity for those jobs. But also it's about promotion. That's another action point:

'Ethnic minority staff are successful in promotion at a level that matches their organisational population share.'

We've got a really important strategy that is about reflecting Wales in running Wales. Isn't that important, that we reflect Wales in running Wales? We've all got to take that on board as political parties in terms of the forthcoming elections.

But I would like to just finally say that that strategy was particularly focused on public appointments, enhancing public appointments, and I am glad to say that that is having an impact. It is to do with shadowing; it is to do with encouragement; it is to do with targeting. But, actually, the current representation of ethnic minority people on boards has increased from 5 per cent to 14.9 per cent in two years as a result of that targeted approach. 

Thank you for the statement.

The violent, racist riots that we saw this summer in towns and cities in England and Northern Ireland must serve as a stark reminder to us in Wales that there is so much work to be done to eradicate the hate and discriminatory views that threaten the safety and well-being of our black, Asian and minority ethnic citizens and poison our society. Although we didn't see the same riots here, Wales is, sadly, not somehow immune to the racism of the groups behind the violence, and we have seen racially motivated hate crime in Wales increase significantly in the south Wales and Gwent policing areas especially, with instances of racism and Islamophobia and antisemitism in all parts of Wales in the headlines all too frequently. The persistence of these hateful views is partly the result of decades of allowing racism and hatred to develop openly online by some politicians, and within our institutions. The famous quote by the African-American political activist, professor and author, Angela Davis, is always worth repeating:

'In a racist society, it's not enough to be non-racist, we must be anti-racist'.

It means that we must take every opportunity to dismantle and oppose the structures that allow racism to take hold, to remain, and to harm. Wales can and should take a different path, so I'm glad to see, reflected in this refreshed 'Anti-racist Wales Action Plan', the call Plaid Cymru made on the Welsh Government to review and to strengthen it against the far-right threat. What I don't see, given the new political context following the UK general election, is the action that should be taken to address the effects of systemic racism within Wales’s criminal justice system, which is so clearly highlighted by Dr Robert Jones of the Wales Governance Centre's latest report on prison and sentencing in Wales. The evidence uncovered in Dr Jones's findings serves as a stark reminder of the pressing need for meaningful and radical action if the Welsh Government truly wants to achieve the aims set out in the 'Anti-racist Wales Action Plan'. Those belonging to a black ethnic group in Wales are the most over-represented ethnic group in prison. There were 54 black people from Wales in prison for every 10,000 of the population in 2023. This rate compares to just 15 white people per 10,000 of the population. The average custodial sentence length in Wales, between 2010 and 2023, was higher for black defendants than defendants from a white ethnic group. And this isn't news, because previous research by the Wales Governance Centre since 2019 has repeatedly underlined the prevalence and extent of racial disproportionality within the Welsh criminal justice system. What the new report shows is that nothing is changing, so what specific steps in the refreshed plan will address this?

The work of academics like Dr Robert Jones is vitally important, because, to oppose and dismantle racist structures, you have to be able to uncover them in the first place. When scrutinising the 'Anti-racist Wales Action Plan', the Equality and Social Justice Committee highlighted the extent of racial disproportionality across the Welsh criminal justice system and also the difficulties facing researchers like Dr Jones, who are forced to use freedom of information legislation to obtain basic data broken down by ethnic group in Wales. In his latest report, Dr Jones underlines the need for Wales-only data to be made routinely available by the Ministry of Justice, and highlights that, presently, access to that data is being denied.

The Equality and Social Justice Committee recommended also that the Welsh Government establish a Welsh criminal justice observatory to help improve access to vital data and knowledge in this area. Dr Jones notes, and I quote,

'despite concerted efforts being made to identify and highlight the challenges facing the Welsh system, there seemingly remains very little appetite for understanding how to address these problems in any serious way.'

So, what investment is being made by the Welsh Government to identify and address the challenges that are seriously undermining anti-racism in Wales through ensuring access to data?

It's five years since the conclusion of the Thomas commission, so what indications have you had, Cabinet Secretary, that the Labour UK Government are going to implement any of the commission’s key recommendations? And finally, do you agree with Dr Robert Jones’s conclusion to his new report that

'whether it be imprisonment rates, average custodial sentence lengths, the use of custodial remand, or the proportion of sentences served, individuals from minority ethnic backgrounds in Wales continue to experience disparate and disproportionate treatment.'

and that

'any decision to ignore or overlook Wales is no longer sustainable nor defensible'?

How is the Welsh Government making their case to their Labour ministerial colleagues in Westminster that they must support one of the plan’s core calls, exploring the devolution of justice and policing powers to Wales? This is a step that is essential for Wales to address racial injustices fully and autonomously. Diolch.

Diolch yn fawr, Sioned Williams. And thank you so much, I have to say—diolch yn fawr—for making that key point, that what we need is anti-racist, which is what we're now refreshing, an anti-racist Wales action plan, which actually drives that message: the zero tolerance of racism, zero tolerance of racial inequalities across every policy area that we're responsible for in Wales, and our partners. And we have to recognise—and we have plenty of examples of how we are addressing this, and I've given you some today in my oral statement—that we have a long way to go to actually deliver on that zero tolerance of racism, which of course, we understood over the summer months, in the many meetings that I had—. The First Minister and I met with many community groups, just after the horrendous events in Southport, and not taking for granted at all that this wasn't having an impact on our communities. During the school holidays, I was meeting people and communities in Butetown, meeting Muslim women, hearing the experiences that they were having. Because, of course, it's global, isn't it? With social media, it's global. And I think, also, the fact that we are now developing—. I've mentioned in my oral statement that we are appointing four regional convenors and developing regional community forums to enable everyone who wants to engage in terms of black, Asian and minority ethnic groups, enabling us to influence and them to influence all aspects of power and responsibility from the health service to local government, and indeed to business, employment and the private sector.

There is a whole chapter, as you will see, on crime and justice in the refreshed plan, and it is important as well, in Wales, that we actually ask our criminal justice partners and launched a criminal justice anti-racism action plan in September 2022. And that was something that—. This is the Welsh way. We work together. Yes, it's a jagged edge and I absolutely pay tribute to the work of Dr Robert Jones and Professor Richard Wyn Jones, as well. The jagged edge summed it up, didn't it, about the interface between devolved and non-devolved in all areas of work, but particularly the criminal justice system was something that we recognised. I'm hoping to meet Dr Robert Jones shortly, to look particularly at his prisons report, but also a key point, I think, is about data and evidence.

You will see that one of our key cross-cutting themes that we're addressing—and many come from the Equality and Social Justice Committee—is about data and research. This is where we have got an opportunity with the new UK Government. So, I want to assure you that that is something that we're now progressing. The Counsel General was answering questions about how we're progressing with the youth justice and probation work as a result of the manifesto commitments from the new UK Labour Government, but one of the things that I've—. I've met more UK Government Ministers in the last few weeks, and I think other Ministers and Cabinet Secretaries have, than I ever met from the previous Government. I'm talking to them about the sentencing review. I'm talking to them about the justice data landscape. And also we have made progress. Even before the election and before the new UK Government, we had been making progress with the Ministry of Justice, working on disaggregated data, emphasising the need for this data to be disaggregated to Wales, so that Robert Jones and academic colleagues do not have to go through the route that they have of freedom of information. And Rob has been involved in data mapping work. We're grateful for his support, and we're developing more capacity on data analytics, because we now have the race disparity evidence unit, which is also part of equality evidence and disability evidence as well. So, I'm taking forward the points that you make. We'll be meeting not just with Rob Jones, but with UK Government colleagues.

And can I say also that you can see change not just from the Ministers and Secretaries of State that we're meeting, at the highest level in terms of what we want to achieve, and this includes women's justice as well? There was a meeting last week, when we were calling for progress with the residential women's centre. There's a lot of interest in what we've done with the women's justice blueprint and the youth justice blueprint, but also we are looking at this in terms of what we can achieve with our long-term ambitions in terms of devolving justice, but starting with ensuring that we can get that justice data. So, I will be meeting not just with Dr Jones, but also bringing in His Majesty's Prison and Probation Service to help just to break down that ideological block, I have to say, that existed in terms of not sharing that disaggregated data, and moving forward with discussions with Robert Jones and the Wales Governance Centre.

Thank you. I call Jenny Rathbone now, please.

Thank you very much indeed and thank you very much for this refreshed report, which looks like a really useful document for being able to track and measure the extent of our progress on what is an extraordinarily challenging thing to do. As you say, it requires a long-term commitment to systematic and cultural change, so the Welsh Government really is making a bold pledge to deliver an anti-racist Wales by 2030, which is really only a very few years down the line. 

I first of all want to just pay tribute to the role of Altaf Hussain, who I'm sorry to say has left the Chamber temporarily. He was a really important part of the six people who wrote the 'Action, not words: towards an anti-racist Wales by 2030' report, particularly with his lived experience of being a doctor within the NHS for so many years. Because what we did discover was that there is still a great deal of work to do on improving anti-racism within the NHS. It's much easier in schools, isn't it, because where you've got good leadership, headteachers ensure that racist behaviour is dealt with appropriately. It's much more difficult in an NHS environment, which every member of the public is able to access, based on their health need. We need to ensure that racist behaviour against staff is challenged. So, I welcome the goals that you've set, particularly for the nation of sanctuary, Gypsies and Travellers and the criminal justice cross-cutting themes, because this is a very complex thing and I welcome very much the words that you have said today and look forward to working with you further.

Diolch yn fawr, Jenny Rathbone, and thank you for the recognition for Altaf Hussain. He's not here, but I would also recognise his contribution in terms of all debates and statements that are made in terms of social justice. I think health is crucial, and the most important point I made in my oral statement is that we've commenced this workforce race equality standard for Wales, and the Cabinet Secretary for Health and Social Care knows how important this is, because this actually has to identify and measure progress in the NHS and social care workforce on race inequality, which we know from the evidence is rife. And that percentage, that large percentage, of ethnic minorities working in and running our NHS—and we saw that in the pandemic—that has led very much to our anti-racist approach. But this is going to take us forward, and I hope—I know—that it will with the expertise that we're getting from outside Wales as well as inside Wales, but also the lived experience of those who work in the service. I've been invited to speak to the British Medical Association's black physicians committee in the new year, but also the British Association of Physicians of Indian Origin. We learn from those, but we now have to deliver on identifying and measuring progress in tackling racism in the NHS.

It's important to educate on the importance of kindness, tolerance and equality, no matter a person's background. So, please could you tell me more about the work of the diversity and anti-racist professional learning in education initiative, training teachers and governors, and provide examples of the impact of it in schools? Thank you.

Diolch, Carolyn Thomas. Well, I think this is one of the most exciting and amazing results of our 'Anti-racist Wales Action Plan'. And actually I am meeting people; I'm going to look at the work of Ysgol Gyfun Gwent Is Coed in Newport, because they've been doing some pioneering work. But this goes back to the fact that, if you actually invest and train teachers, leaders and governors, then you will make a difference. So, again, the education Secretary and the former education Secretary have totally signed up to DARPL. We're supporting it, we're investing in it. I would also very much welcome Members going to visit the schools to ask the questions about professional learning and data collection. There is a lack of data; this is the other big cross-cutting theme at a national level, and I recognise the recommendation about bullying, for example, and the guidance is being updated. But I think in terms of the role of DARPL, it will make such a difference.

But also, let's just go back to the fact that the curriculum is crucial to this, isn't it? And the Cynefin report, chaired by Professor Charlotte Williams, who sits on our external advisory group. We're the first nation in the UK to make it mandatory to teach black, Asian and minority ethnic histories and experiences in the new Curriculum for Wales. Isn't that a breakthrough? And that actually is a breakthrough that we will always honour when we see the Betty Campbell statue in the centre of Cardiff. She was the first black history teacher, and she's led the way in terms of moving this forward and DARPL is making a difference.

And finally, John Griffiths.

Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd dros dro. Cabinet Secretary, it was good to hear you mention the Gypsy, Roma, Traveller community, and the need for equity for those communities in your remarks. The 'Anti-racist Wales Action Plan', I think, is potentially a big step forward for those communities, and you'll be very familiar with the need for new local authority residential sites, to improve existing sites, and the need to facilitate private smaller sites, and indeed in relation to transit sites.

With regard to the latter, Cabinet Secretary, the sort of misunderstandings that do lead to discrimination and prejudice often arise from unauthorised encampments, because of the lack of transit sites, which could be properly resourced and controlled and managed, as it were, and it would give the police a site to direct those in transit to, which would I think deal with a lot of the community tensions that currently exist around those unauthorised encampments. So, what could you say today, Cabinet Secretary, about that particular aspect of policy, and what sort of progress we may see and how quickly we're likely to see it?

Thank you very much, John Griffiths, and thank you for the work of the Local Government and Housing Committee, which I was pleased to go in front of recently for scrutiny on how we can actually achieve those equitable outcomes for our Gypsy, Roma and Traveller people, recognising that they are some of the most disadvantaged and discriminated against in our society.

All racism, including racism and discrimination faced by Gypsy, Roma and Traveller communities, is wholly unacceptable and has no place in Wales. We have made progress and the scrutiny and the impact of being held to account is really important in terms of moving forward. Local authorities have got a statutory duty not just in terms of permanent sites, but also in terms of transit as well. And I'm very pleased that, this year, we are not only now getting bids through for site development, which will mean that we will be spending the capital that we allocate every year, but also working very closely with local authorities on those transit sites. And it is something where you need local authorities working not just one by one, but actually regionally, and we as a Welsh Government are going to undertake a sort of national view about travelling and where sites could be located to support local authorities, and then work with them for where those transit sites should be. So, I think the site capital grant funding is available for transit sites as well, and we will look to work with local authorities when we've undertaken this work.

But can I just say that one of the most important things in the refreshed plan is that we're going to set up a new expert Gypsy, Roma and Traveller group? We need those voices, lived experience, influencing policy. We've just approved a new contract to Travelling Ahead at TGP Cymru. I'm delighted that Julie Morgan is now chairing a new cross-party group for Gypsy, Roma, Traveller people, and the work that we're doing also with criminal justice partners to ensure that we look at the impact of the Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts Act 2022 on Gypsy, Roma, Traveller communities. I think that we will never go there now. We've got a new UK Government and we will deliver this through transit sites that meet the needs of Travelling people.

Thank you.

I now move on to the statement by the Cabinet Secretary for Health and Social Care: NHS Wales organisations—escalation update. I call on the Cabinet Secretary for Health and Social Care, Jeremy Miles.

Thank you, temporary Dirprwy Lywydd.

Like the NHS in other parts of the UK, the health service in Wales is under intense pressure. Demand for services is at an all-time high, and the NHS in Wales, as elsewhere, is continuing to manage the impact of the pandemic, both in terms of the backlog of treatments and in an increase in appointments for care that people delayed or postponed during the height of the pandemic. We have record numbers of staff working in the NHS. Every day, they provide life-changing and life-saving care, often under very difficult circumstances. In the midst of some of the most challenging financial times in the devolution era, we've provided almost £900 million extra for the NHS over the last two years, and I've just announced a further injection of funding to tackle the longest waiting times. 

It’s part of my job to make sure that the health service delivers the best possible care and the best possible outcomes for people in Wales. The day-to-day responsibility for the delivery of healthcare is with health boards and trusts, who have a duty to provide services that respond to people’s needs locally. We have robust arrangements in place to assess the quality, service performance and financial management of every NHS organisation in Wales. We do this twice a year to determine whether any organisations need additional support to improve the care they ultimately provide for their local populations. As Cabinet Secretary for Health and Social Care, I have to take significant decisions about whether NHS organisations need additional support and oversight from the Welsh Government to improve care and outcomes in line with the escalation and intervention arrangements. The NHS Wales oversight and escalation framework sets out the process by which the Welsh Government maintains oversight of NHS bodies and gains assurance across the system. Following the latest detailed assessment process, I am today setting out some changes to the escalation levels of health organisations. 

There have been significant improvements in child and adolescent mental health services at Cwm Taf Morgannwg University Health Board. It has met the de-escalation performance criteria for the latest three months for CAMHS, which means that the service can be de-escalated, in line with the escalation framework, one level from level 4 to level 3. We will work with the health board to agree the sustainable improvements needed prior to consideration for further de-escalation. The health board also achieved an in-year balanced financial position last year, has an approved, balanced three-year integrated medium-term plan and made significant progress against the de-escalation criteria. The health board will remain at level 3 for finance, strategy and planning whilst we consider if this progress can be sustained into the second half of the year. The health board will also remain at level 4 for urgent and emergency care, cancer and planned care performance. We have seen some progress in these areas, but they are not yet sufficient nor sustained enough to be considered for de-escalation. We'll continue to provide ongoing support to Cwm Taf Morgannwg University Health Board to continue the improvements, and I want to thank the staff for their hard work.

Dirprwy Lywydd, I turn now to Swansea Bay university and Powys teaching health boards, where we need to increase the level of support because of the growing financial deficits both organisations are reporting. Therefore, I have taken the decision to escalate both health boards to level 4, previously known as targeted intervention, for finance, strategy and planning. Swansea Bay University Health Board will also remain at level 4 for performance and outcomes and at level 3 for maternity and neonatal services.

Despite progress being made in some areas, there are no changes to the escalation levels of the other NHS organisations at this stage. This means that all NHS trusts and strategic health authorities remain at level 1. Aneurin Bevan University Health Board remains at level 4 for finance, strategy and planning, and at level 3 for urgent and emergency care performance at the Grange University Hospital. Betsi Cadwaladr University Health Board remains at level 5—in special measures. We have agreed the de-escalation criteria it must meet to move to level 4, and today we have published the latest progress report on our website. Cardiff and Vale University Health Board remains at level 3 for finance, strategy and planning, and Hywel Dda University Health Board is at level 4. The escalation levels of all NHS organisations are published on the Welsh Government website.

Dirprwy Lywydd, these decisions have not been taken lightly. Escalation is not a form of punishment; it is the best way to support these NHS organisations to improve the quality of service and care that people receive in Wales from the health service in their local area and, ultimately, their outcomes.

Thank you for your statement here today, Cabinet Secretary. May I first of all associate myself with your opening remarks and give credit to all those working in our health services in Wales and recognise the difference that they are making every day to people throughout the country? And also, I support your final comments in highlighting the important role of escalation in enabling those health services to deliver on those ambitions to the best of their ability, not as a punishment, as you say, but, rather, as appropriate support to enable people to do what they're in the job to do.

I also share your concerns about the health boards you've mentioned in today's statement and I welcome the improvements in a number of areas that you've highlighted. But I'm also deeply worried about the worsening position in too many areas, as well—for example, those in Swansea Bay University Health Board and Powys Teaching Health Board for finance, strategy and planning. And when we're talking about these arrangements, the oversight and escalation arrangements, for me, there are three keys to what we're talking about and the first is around clear lines of responsibility. The second is around accurate oversight and reporting, and the third is around the deliverable solutions for change.

We know, in the current system, as you mentioned, of the long waiting lists that, unfortunately, are still here in Wales, and we know that that number is around 800,000—the number of people waiting for treatment in Wales. And we know that that is at an all-time high after seven record-breaking months of consecutive increase. I think it's fair to say that it's probably not an inheritance that you would've wanted to have in this role, Cabinet Secretary. And we know that it's difficult, of course, for the Welsh Government to tackle some of this. But I would argue that there is an opportunity for the Welsh Government to take clear lines of responsibility in tackling these issues. You've made clear today in your statement—and we've heard it on the floor here before—that the day-to-day responsibility for healthcare delivery is not your responsibility, which I would accept at an operational level, but when we're faced with such a consistent period of time of people on waiting lists and suffering on those waiting lists, I would argue that it's no longer an operational responsibility, but is now a strategic and policy responsibility, which, to me, firmly sits with you and with the Welsh Government. So, I wonder if you would accept that premise too—that responsibility for the delivery of services firmly rests with you and that you'd be willing to be clear on that in your future contributions, as well. I think it'd be helpful for health boards to hear that, ultimately, responsibility for the delivery of health services sits with you as the Cabinet Secretary for health.

When it comes to oversight, Welsh Government Ministers, past and present, have often spoken about being given assurances by health boards and the way in which health boards are being monitored. Isn't it clear, however, that, in many cases across Wales, these assurances haven't necessarily always been delivered on and that monitoring isn't necessarily bringing about the effective change that you'd want to see? An example of this is that you announced significant improvements in Cwm Taf Morgannwg University Health Board's child and adolescent mental health provision, but we're aware, aren't we, that a recent report by ITV, based on a Welsh Conservative investigation, showed that CAMHS waiting times had doubled from 2021. So, it's deeply concerning that Cwm Taf has now been de-escalated. So, I wonder if you could confirm that the average waiting times in the health board for CAMHS have significantly improved since 2023 and that they are, indeed, meeting the four-week target that you'd had in place for them, as well.

I'm going to come to solutions for change, as the third area that I think is important when we're looking at de-escalation. I would argue as well that we should be looking for support for those solutions for change from any quarter we can get it from, whether it's cross-border, whether it's cross-sector—wherever it may be. So, I'd be interested to hear from you, Cabinet Secretary, how those discussions are going with colleagues at a UK level, working across border and across sectors, to deliver solutions to change so that these health boards can move out of this escalated position sooner rather than later.

Finally, Deputy Presiding Officer, just to finish with, I agree with you in your summary towards the end, Cabinet Secretary, where you talked about the seriousness and significance of decisions being made. We do know, in the lead-up to the last Senedd elections, that a previous health Minister felt comfortable to move Betsi Cadwaladr health board out of special measures before plunging them back in soon after those elections. So, I would be keen to hear from you today a commitment that you will not be taking this approach yourself, because the appearance of escalation and de-escalation being played around with for political expediency is something that I know damages confidence in this place and damages confidence in the Welsh Government. The lives and health of people across Wales are far too serious for those party political games to be played. Diolch yn fawr iawn.

I thank the Member for those questions. Just to clarify matters of fact first, there aren't 800,000 people on waiting lists in Wales; it is far too high at a little over 600,000, but just for the sake of accuracy, for the record, that is the situation. The figures haven't been escalating for seven months in a row; by my calculation, it's five months—again, five months too many, but I think, just for the sake of accuracy, it's important to set the record straight.

It is important that there is a mechanism in place that is dependable and transparent in relation to oversight and escalation. I'm grateful to the Member for acknowledging the point I made at the end of my statement in relation to escalation being a mechanism to provide additional support and additional guidance, as well as expectations, rather than a form of punishment. There is a mechanism in place, as I mentioned in passing in my statement, for periodic meetings of the tripartite system that we have, which enables judgments, then, to be made today. It is critical to the transparency of the process that we have a public framework for oversight and escalation, which was most recently published in January of this year and sets out very clearly the process by which the Welsh Government maintains oversight of NHS bodies and, as he asked me specifically, gains assurance across the system. It describes the escalation, the de-escalation and intervention process—the five levels of escalation and the six domains against which each health body will be assessed. That framework is public, it remains the framework and it operates in the way that I'm describing today.

He asked me confirm what my responsibility is and what is operational. I'm not entirely sure where the confusion lies. I don't believe the health service feels there's any confusion in this space. It's my job to make sure that the health service delivers the best possible care and the best possible outcomes for people in Wales. I'm responsible within the Welsh Government for delivering on that outcome, but, naturally, day-to-day decisions about how funding is allocated at a health board level and how choices are made at a local level are, of course, matters that are, appropriately, not mine to take. Therefore, there is a mixed responsibility: I'm responsible, in my role as a Minister, for the strategy, for the funding, for the direction and for the priorities, and there are others in the system tasked with the operation of the service on a day-to-day basis. I believe that we are all individually accountable and collectively accountable for the operation of the health service, and I think that is very, very well understood.

I don't have the detail in front of me, I'm afraid, of the CAMHS waiting times in particular at Cwm Taf, but I would, of course, be very happy to write to him specifically in relation to that.

We last had an update from the Welsh Government on escalation arrangements back in January, and though we've witnessed substantial churn across the Labour benches in the intervening months, including three different Cabinet Secretaries holding the health and social care brief, when it comes to the management of the health service, sadly, some things never change. While I welcome the progress that has been made in some areas, on the whole, we are still confronted with the grimly familiar situation of the normalisation of failing standards. I was struck in particular by the official Welsh Government guidelines on special measures, which state that they are only meant to be implemented under exceptional circumstances. But given that my local health board, Betsi Cadwaladr, has been in this position for two thirds of its entire existence, there is clearly nothing exceptional about the suboptimal performance of services in north Wales. The non-routine has now become the routine, with hard-working staff and patients alike paying the price. And Betsi Cadwaladr is far from unique in this regard. All seven of Wales's major health boards remain under a form of targeted intervention—for several years, in some cases.

What is particularly frustrating about the current framework is its inability to provide a clear plan and relevant timescales for driving services improvements. It is a diagnosis, rather than a prognosis. The addition of yet more escalation layers at the start of the year has only compounded this issue, giving the impression of goalposts being shifted without a firm idea of how to reach the desired destination of business as usual. So, could the Cabinet Secretary confirm, in his response, whether the updated framework has been reviewed since January? How is its success relative to the previous vision being monitored?

Another problem that I've raised on numerous occasions is that the lines of accountability are inherently opaque. Though the tripartite group is meant to give a veneer of equality for Audit Wales and Healthcare Inspectorate Wales, ultimately, it is Welsh Government that has the final say on the escalation status of a health board, regardless of whether it goes against the advice of the non-Government bodies. The detrimental implications of this were laid bare when Betsi Cadwaladr was prematurely lifted out of special measures back in 2020, and with the next election fast approaching, there is understandable concern we will face a repeat of expert advice being overruled in favour of short-term, political calculations in the run up to 2026. Full Government transparency on the rationale for moving health boards up or down the escalation pathway is, therefore, essential. So, will the Cabinet Secretary commit to publishing all advice related to changes in the escalation status of health boards as a matter of regular practice?

Given the issues I've raised, I am unconvinced that the Welsh Government is the most appropriate arbiter of these escalation measures. Cabinet Secretary, your predecessor was adamant that the Welsh Government should retain this decision-making authority, despite signs of sustained progress being fairly thin on the ground throughout the course of her three-year tenure. Now that you've had the opportunity to assess how the escalation framework operates first-hand, do you agree with this view, and if so, what will you be doing differently in your new role to ensure that it does deliver lasting improvements as efficiently as possible?

I thank the Member for those questions, which were, I think, in substance, more or less the same questions that Sam Rowlands asked, so I hope you will have found the answers I gave to Sam Rowlands equally useful to the questions that you have asked.

I suppose, in specific terms, the escalation framework was, of course, as he acknowledges, published in January of this year, and the purpose of that, of course, is to provide the transparency about the levels of escalation and the mechanism for both escalation and de-escalation. It is important that that is transparently understood and that people understand in a predictable way what outcomes lead to what choices as part of that framework. So, I would associate myself with the points he is making about the importance of transparency, and I think publishing the framework in that way has enabled us to be open about the mechanism that we use. There is a body of advice that comes to me as Minister in reaching these decisions. He will understand that advice of that nature is a privilege in the usual way, but the critical thing is that it complies with that publicly available document, and I hope that he finds that helpful, as I hope that others do as well.

I also want to ask about the scrutiny of the decisions made by health boards. As you rightly say, it's not reasonable for a health Minister to oversee individual decisions, and the old Aneurin Bevan line about the sound of a bedpan should reverberate around Whitehall is long out of date. But you do appoint the chair of the health board, and the health board chair runs the non-executive side of the health board.

Last Friday night in Llanelli, the minor injuries unit was shut at 8 p.m. for the first time. It didn't open until 8 a.m. the next morning and it'll stay that way for six months. I was told about that the day it was published in the board papers as a fait accompli. The public board discussion of that was superficial, I would say, at the very best. The majority of the health board is made up of the executive of the board and non-executive members, many of whom worked for the NHS. So, how do we guard against groupthink? How do we make sure there is robust scrutiny? How do we maintain public confidence when the health board have refused to attend a public meeting to explain themselves, preferring instead a managed drop-in session? You said that twice a year the Welsh Government assesses quality, service performance and financial management, and Hywel Dda health board remain in the highest level of escalation. How is it that you can reasonably reassure yourself that the level of challenge at the health board level is sufficient to the level of peril faced by the health board so we can maintain public confidence?

Well, I think it is important that health boards, in making the choices that often, inevitably, they have to make—and he's referring to one in his own constituency that I understand well, of course—do that in a way that commands public confidence and engages with the public and with representatives amongst them as part of that process. My understanding is that the chair of the health board did attend the meeting, the drop-in meeting, for the public to come along and challenge and ask questions in relation to that. If I'm correct in that, I think that is an appropriate thing to happen, because it provides that ability to challenge the organisation at its highest level, which I absolutely think is important.

I think he is right to say that the system depends upon the ability of board members, and independent board members in particular, to provide critical challenge across the system and a well-functioning board, of course, will do that. I have a role in the appointment of individual independent board members. I attended, as it happens, a joint board meeting of the Hywel Dda health board and the Swansea Bay University Health Board a few weeks ago. As he will know, they're working on a regional relationship, which I absolutely wish to see succeeding. It's a result of ministerial direction to strengthen the ability to plan on a regional basis, and I was clear in the discussion I had with the boards just how important it is for board members to provide that level of critical challenge. I understand the Member's question to be implying the need to make sure that the recruitment of board members and the training of board members is at a sufficiently diverse level in terms of the range of experiences, including outside the health board, so that that challenge is both meaningful and constructive, and I would absolutely associate myself with that.

Back in March, Cabinet Secretary, the then health Minister issued a written statement on the Welsh Government's accountability and ministerial task-and-finish advisory group reviewing NHS Wales governance. Now, the Minister confirmed at the time that that work had been completed and evidence was being gathered, and said it would now consider the evidence and develop recommendations. I haven't seen anything public since that point, so I wonder if I could ask for the outcomes of that task-and-finish group, please.

I was obviously disappointed that Powys health board has been escalated into level 4 for growing financial deficits. I wonder if you can talk through the kind of conversations that happen between your officials and the health board officials ahead of escalation, because presumably—I'm talking here about the process—your officials would require a plan to require those savings to be made, and health boards simply say, ‘Look, we can't deliver what you're asking us to do’, and then go into that escalation process. Perhaps talk us through that point, and I suppose my more general question is how successful and realistic performance regimes are if health boards aren't improving? So effectively, if that's happening, what is Welsh Government doing wrong? Is it a failure of leadership or a lack of resource, because it would seem to be one or the other?

I thank the Member for those questions. I think they're all fair questions to ask. On the first point in relation to the accountability review, that will be published very, very imminently, so I can reassure him very categorically about that—in the coming days, actually. Part of the reason for taking slightly longer than I think all of us had hoped was that we wanted to make sure that parts of the NHS are able to engage with the recommendations that the review makes, so that we could, in formulating our view as a Government, take full account of that. But I hope you'll be reassured by that. And I should have said in my answer to Lee Waters's question that when Members see that review, they will see that a theme in it is about how we can strengthen boards to deliver the kind of scrutiny that Lee Waters also was seeking reassurance on in relation to it. 

On the question in relation to financial planning and the kinds of conversations and discussions that happen, the escalation in relation to Powys, as the Member acknowledges, is specifically in relation to financial and strategy planning, and that has been because the health board is not on track on its own plan to deliver the savings within the year. So, it's a plan that the board itself has said it will be able to deliver and it is not currently looking like that will be on target. So, that is the rationale, essentially. Obviously, the board itself recognises that, clearly, and I've had discussions with the chair as part of the oversight relationship previously in place, which obviously has touched on the importance of making sure that we are able to put that plan back on track. 

The system is there in order to enable me to have assurance as Minister and the Government to have assurance that the support necessary to deliver better performance is in place. Clearly, as we've seen from the de-escalation today, the system is capable of delivering that outcome, which I think we should all be reassured about. It's inevitably the case, particularly in the context of escalation around financial matters, that the pressure of resource on the system clearly is a contributor to that. Because of the configuration of health services in Powys, it has perhaps more limited options for being able to address that than other health boards that have a wider range of services through geography. So, I think that's a particular consideration, but it's those sorts of things that will have been taken into account. And just to give him the assurance that in relation to engagement with the board, that happens very regularly at official level and also happens at a ministerial level. 

Finally, Rhianon Passmore. 

Diolch, Deputy Llywydd. Cabinet Secretary, my constituents in Islwyn see how hard our NHS staff work and will note that Aneurin Bevan University Health Board remains at level 4 for finance strategy and at level 3 for urgent and emergency care performance at the Grange University Hospital. After 14 long years of the de-funding of Welsh Government and Wales, it is now vital that the Welsh Labour Government seize this moment in time offered by the UK Labour Government's recent budget, and continue to broaden the new relationship between administrations. The extra £1.7 billion given to the Welsh Government must be used substantively to drive down NHS waiting times and improve the performance of our Welsh national health service. So, therefore, Cabinet Secretary, what assurances can you give to the people of Islwyn that the escalation and intervention arrangements will support our local health board to improve the quality of flow and systems that patients receive from their health service in Islwyn? Diolch.

I thank the Member for that. I should say that the current forecast for the health board aligns with the minimum requirements in the accountability conditions around the funding of financial questions, and the board is making real progress against key elements of the de-escalation criteria as well. There've been some improvements in the urgent and emergency care performance, but, as her question implies, these are not yet consistent or sustained enough to deliver the de-escalation at this stage. 

I should say that even in advance of the budget last week in Westminster, the Member will know that we were able to make available additional funding to health boards, including her own local health board, in order to be able to tackle both the longest waiting times but also those for perhaps more routine surgery. And I was able to visit the regional cataract centre at Nevill Hall Hospital, actually, within the health board area, which is developing a rapid surgery process to enable the most straightforward cataracts to be dealt with more quickly, and that will help to get to grips with some of the backlogs. 

I should say that we've had already the proposal from Aneurin Bevan about the use of the broader funding, and we will be working with all health boards on a weekly basis to understand the trajectory they are on for delivering the outcomes that they themselves have said they can deliver in response to that additional funding.

I thank the Cabinet Secretary.

We’ll move on now. In accordance with Standing Order 12.24, unless a Member objects, the two motions under items 9 and 10, the tertiary education and research regulations 2024, will be grouped for debate but with votes taken separately. I see that there are no objections.

 I call on the Minister for Further and Higher Education, Vikki Howells.

Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd. I move the motion. Part 2 of the Tertiary Education and Research (Wales) Act 2022 provides for a registration system that will provide the legal mechanisms for regulatory oversight of registered tertiary education providers in Wales in receipt of public funds. The registration system will enable the Commission for Tertiary Education and Research, known as Medr, to effectively regulate our diverse sector through a flexible mechanism for proportionate and accountable regulation of higher education in Wales.

The Commission for Tertiary Education and Research (Registration and De-registration of Tertiary Education Providers in Wales) Regulations 2024 will put in place the necessary statutory provisions to enable Medr to continue its work on establishing the register and defining the regulatory regime to apply to registered providers from July 2026.

These regulations define the two categories of registration, higher education core and higher education alternative, and specify that providers registered in the core category are eligible to receive financial support from Medr for the purposes of higher education, research or innovation.

The regulations also prescribe further initial and mandatory ongoing conditions of registration, with providers who wish to register in the core category required to have charitable status. Providers registered in the core or alternative category will be subject to conditions in respect of the information they provide to prospective students, their courses and their terms and conditions of contracts with students.

The regulations also prescribe the minimum information that must be included in a provider’s entry in the register and further circumstances in which the commission must remove a registered provider from a category of the register.

The Tertiary Education and Research (Wales) Act 2022 (Designation of Providers) Regulations 2024 details the basis on which a provider of tertiary education in Wales who is not an institution can make an application to the Welsh Ministers to be designated as one for the purpose of TERA 2022.

Both of these statutory instruments have been informed by consultation completed earlier this year. In developing these regulations, a key principle has been maintaining a balance between delivering a robust legislative framework and affording Medr the discretion and flexibility to develop, in partnership with the sector, a regulatory regime that supports providers, protects the interests of students and Welsh taxpayers, and maintains the reputation of higher education in Wales.

I would like to thank the Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee for their diligent work in reviewing these regulations and can confirm that the changes recommended to the designation regulations have been made in readiness for making, subject of course to their being approved by Members today.

I will be making further regulations to support the implementation of the registration system over the coming year and look forward to working with Medr, stakeholders and Members as this work progresses. I ask Members to approve these regulations today.

I call on the Chair of the Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee, Mike Hedges.

Diolch, Deputy Presiding Officer. The LJC committee considered these draft regulations early in October. The committee produced a clear report on the Commission for Tertiary Education and Research (Registration and De-registration of Tertiary Education Providers in Wales) Regulations 2024, which can be found on today’s agenda. Our report on The Tertiary Education and Research (Wales) Act 2022 (Designation of Providers) Regulations 2024 contains two technical and one merits reporting points. The two technical reporting points in the committee’s report highlighted potentially defective drafting. The Welsh Government has accepted both points and has committed to make the necessary corrections prior to formally making the regulations, should they be approved this afternoon. The Welsh Government has also committed to addressing the merits point as part of the 'correction prior to making' process, by inserting a hyperlink to improve the accessibility of the regulations. Diolch.

I call on the Minister to reply to the debate.

I'm grateful to the Chair of the Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee for participating in today's debate. I call on Members to approve this package of statutory instruments to enable Medr and the Welsh Government to continue to work with the tertiary education sector in Wales to deliver these important reforms.

The proposal is to agree the motion under item 9. Does any Member object?

Was there a hand raised? 

No. So, the motion is agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.

The next proposal is to agree the motion under item 10. Does any Member object? No. The motion is therefore agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.

That brings us to voting time. Unless three Members wish for the bell to be rung, I will proceed directly to voting. [Interruption.]

Yes, by all means. Ring the bell.

We are ready. There will be only one vote this evening, and that's on item 4, the legislative consent motion on the Passenger Railway Service (Public Ownership) Bill. I call for a vote on the motion, tabled in the name of Ken Skates. Open the vote. Close the vote. In favour 38, no abstentions, 15 against, and therefore the motion is agreed.

That brings today's proceedings to a close. Thank you.