National Assembly for Wales

—the Counsel General this afternoon. Unfortunately, due to unforeseen circumstances, that session will not be going ahead. We'll, hopefully, be able to re-arrange for a date in the near future.

Item 2, instruments that raise no reporting issues under Standing Order 21.2 or 21.3. The Allocation of Housing and Homelessness (Eligibility) (Wales) (Amendment) Regulations 2024. These regulations amend the 2014 regulations of the same name to extend eligibility for the allocation of housing accommodation and housing assistance provided by local authorities to people subject to immigration control who are victims of transnational marriage abandonment. They also make those individuals whose no recourse to public funds condition has been lifted by the Home Office eligible for an allocation of housing and homelessness assistance in Wales. Senedd lawyers have identified no reporting points. Do Members have anything that they wish to say? No.

Moving on to made negative resolution instruments, item 2.2. These regulations amend the Non-Domestic Rating Contributions (Wales) Regulations 1992, which prescribe the rules for calculating non-domestic rating contributions to be paid by billing authorities in Wales to the non-domestic rates pool. The regulations amend Schedule 4 of the 1992 regulations to update the adult population figures that are used to calculate contributions. The regulations also make consequential amendments to Schedules 1 and 2 of the 1992 regulations. Senedd lawyers have identified no reporting points. Do Members have any observations? No.

Item 3, instruments that raise issues to be reported to the Senedd under Standing Order 21.2 or 21.3. The Animal Health (Miscellaneous Fees) (Amendment and Revocation) (Wales) Order 2024. This Order amends the Animal Gatherings (Fees) (Wales) Order 2018 by increasing fees payable to the Welsh Ministers under that Order for services provided by the Animal and Plant Health Agency. This Order also revokes the Diseases of Animals (Fees for the Testing of Disinfectants) Order 1991 in relation to Wales. Senedd lawyers have identified one technical reporting point and one merits reporting point. A Welsh Government response has been requested. Firstly, Kate, from our legal team. Would you like to run through the reporting points?  

Thank you. The technical reporting point identifies inconsistencies in the drafting of the Schedule to the Order, and the merits point is just to note that the Order is prescribing the charges for various licences and applications, as set out in the Schedule. We're just waiting for Welsh Government to respond to the technical reporting point.

Thank you very much. Have Members got anything they wish to add? Are we happy to agree the reporting points? Yes. 

That takes us to item 3.2, the School Teachers’ Pay and Conditions (Wales) Order 2024. This Order makes provision for the remuneration and conditions of employment of school teachers in Wales, to be determined by reference to the provisions set out in section 2 of the School Teachers’ Pay and Conditions (Wales) Document 2024 and guidance on school teachers’ pay and conditions. The Order introduces new pay and allowance ranges in the national pay framework for school teachers in maintained schools in Wales only. Although the Order will come into force on 28 November 2024, the provisions on teachers’ pay and conditions under section 2 of the document will have retrospective effect from 1 September 2024. Senedd lawyers have identified one technical reporting point and one merits reporting point. A Welsh Government response has been requested and received. First, over to Kate from our legal team, who would like to run through the reporting points.

The technical reporting point identifies potentially defective drafting in that the term ‘school teacher’ has been defined for the purposes of article 2, but it’s also used in article 1. In response, Welsh Government agrees with the reporting point and they say they will note it for future Orders. However, Welsh Government does not consider that anyone will be misled by the definition not applying for the purposes of article 1 of the Order.

The merits reporting point notes that the reference to costs in the regulatory impact assessment, including the explanatory memorandum to the Order in particular, sets out the estimated increase to the overall pay bill and the Welsh Government’s intention to mitigate the impact on school and local authority budgets by providing additional in-year grant funding via the local authority education grant.

Thank you, Kate. Members, do you have anything to add, or are you happy to agree these reporting points? Yes. Thank you very much.

Item 4, instruments that raise issues to be reported to the Senedd under Standing Order 21.2 or 21.3, previously considered. This is the Special Procedure Licences (Wales) Regulations 2024. Following the committee’s consideration of the suite of regulations creating the mandatory licensing scheme for practitioners, premises and vehicles associated with the performance of special procedures, the committee exchanged correspondence with the Cabinet Secretary for Health and Social Care and also agreed to write to the First Minister to raise concerns. The letter to the First Minister is included in our papers today for the formal record. Members will be aware that a package of regulations will be debated in Plenary tomorrow afternoon.

The Nutrition and Health Claims (Wales) (Amendment) Regulations 2024. The committee considered this instrument at its meeting on 11 November and laid its report the same day. Members are invited to note the Welsh Government response to the report, which has since been received. Kate, do you have anything to raise from the Welsh Government's response?

Yes. Welsh Government says it is looking to correct three of the issues identified in the committee’s report by way of a correction slip. Correction slips are a matter for the SI registrar, but it appears to the committee’s legal advisers that one of these matters is perhaps slightly more substantive than we would usually expect to see corrected by a correction slip. So, the committee may just wish to write to Welsh Government to ask them to confirm, following their discussions with the SI registrar, whether all the issues will be addressed by a correction slip or if other action will be needed.

Any comments? No. Are we happy to do that? Yes. Okay. Thank you very much.

The Partnership Arrangements (Miscellaneous Amendments etc.) (Wales) Regulations 2024. The committee considered this instrument at its meeting on 18 November and laid its report the same day. Members are invited to note the Welsh Government response to the report, which has since been received. Kate, do you have anything to raise from the Welsh Government's response?

Members might just wish to note that Welsh Government is going to correct the outdated name before the regulations are made, and that’s all set out in the table in the Welsh Government response.

Are we happy to note the Welsh Government's response? Yes.

The Local Government Finance (Consequential and Miscellaneous Amendments and Revocations) (Secondary Legislation) (Wales) Regulations 2024. Following the committee’s consideration of these regulations, the committee wrote to the Cabinet Secretary to express concern about the Welsh Government’s response to the first and third reporting points raised by the committee.

The first reporting point highlighted a vires issue, which was accepted by the Welsh Government in its initial response. Now, in his letter, the Cabinet Secretary confirms that the enabling power in section 54(1) of the Local Government (Wales) Act 1994 was included in the preamble in error, but that, in terms of addressing the issue, the Welsh Ministers have not identified a power that can be relied upon to omit the provision from the statute book. However, the Cabinet Secretary tells us that that commentary has been included on legislation.gov.uk to clarify the position.

The third reporting point stated that the drafting approach adopted by the Welsh Government in regulation 23 of the regulations lacked clarity. In his response, the Cabinet Secretary states that, whilst the Welsh Government remains content that regulation 23 is legally effective, it accepts that an alternative approach may have been to textually amend the 1989 regulations, as suggested by the committee. The Cabinet Secretary says that the committee’s comments will be taken into account when drafting future instruments. Kate, do you have anything to add?

On the vires point, we've confirmed that the commentary is available on legislation.gov.uk. It's in the form of a footnote to the ultra vires provision. It's obviously not ideal that that provision continues to sit on the statue book, but given that the Welsh Government can't identify a power that would allow them to remove it, having that commentary is probably the best outcome we can expect in the circumstances.

Are we happy to note the letter? Yes. Thank you.

Notifications and correspondence under the inter-institutional relations agreement: correspondence and written statement by the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Secretary for Climate Change and Rural Affairs on the Official Controls (Amendment) Regulations 2024. The Deputy First Minister confirms that he has given consent to the Minister of State to make these regulations in relation to Wales. The Deputy First Minister confirms that consent has been given as a result of the agreement on the border target operating model between the three Governments in Great Britain. Are Members content to note this? Yes.

Papers to note. Correspondence from the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Secretary for Climate Change and Rural Affairs to the Llywydd on section 150 of the Government of Wales Act 2006. The Deputy First Minister has written to the Llywydd to inform her that the Welsh Government is seeking an Order under section 150 of the Government of Wales Act 2006 in relation to various provisions of the Senedd and Elections (Wales) Act 2020, and seeks her views. The Deputy First Minister also draws the Llywydd’s attention to two minor legislative amendments that the Welsh Government has identified as appropriate in consequence of the Public Services Ombudsman (Wales) Act 2019, which was a committee-sponsored Bill. He states that the legislative amendments have been identified to ensure references to the current legislative framework are accurate. Are Members content to note that? Yes.

Correspondence between the Llywydd and Tracy Gilbert MP on Absent Voting (Elections in Scotland and Wales) Bill. The Llywydd responds to a letter from Tracy Gilbert MP, in which she informs the Llywydd that she has introduced the Absent Voting (Elections in Scotland and Wales) Bill in the House of Commons as a private Members' Bill. Tracy Gilbert confirmed that the Bill will make provisions in two key areas. It will give the Scottish and Welsh Governments concurrent powers to bring forward regulations to align with the Elections Act 2022 and enable applications for postal and proxy votes for devolved elections to be made online, and it will provide powers to include an identity check requirement on absent voting applications. Tracy Gilbert believes that the Bill will make welcome progress in making it easier for an elector to register for either a postal or proxy vote, and, if it's successful, these provisions would be available for Scottish and Welsh Ministers to use ahead of the devolved elections in 2026. Are Members content to note this? Yes.

A written statement by the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Secretary for Climate Change and Rural Affairs on the development of a deposit-return scheme for Wales. The Deputy First Minister provided an update in relation to the development of a deposit-return scheme for Wales. The Deputy First Minister states that, although the Welsh Government has been working in partnership with the UK and devolved Governments to initiate a joint process to appoint the deposit management organisation for their respective deposit-return schemes later this month, the Welsh Government will not proceed with a joint scheme. The reason for this, he states, is that it has not been possible to address issues to the operation of devolution caused by the United Kingdom Internal Market Act 2020. The Deputy First Minister states that the Welsh Government will continue its engagement to develop a scheme that supports the transition to reuse for all drinks containers, including those made from glass. Do Members have any comments they wish to make? If not, we’ll move on to the next item.

Item 6.4, a written statement by the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Secretary for Climate Change and Rural Affairs on the innovating democracy advisory group. The Deputy First Minister confirms that the innovating democracy advisory group has been created following a recommendation by the Independent Commission on the Constitutional Future of Wales in its final report in 2024. The expert panel will advise the Welsh Government and partners on expanding the use of democratic innovation and enhance civic engagement in public life, and will be chaired by Dr Anwen Elias. The Deputy First Minister commits to updating Senedd Members in due course on the full membership of the new advisory group and its work programme. Are Members content to note this? Yes.

Correspondence from the Economy, Trade and Rural Affairs Committee to the Cabinet Secretary for Economy, Energy and Planning on the legislative consent memorandum on the Product Regulation and Metrology Bill. The Economy, Trade and Rural Affairs Committee has written to the Cabinet Secretary for Economy, Energy and Planning to seek further information to inform its scrutiny of the legislative consent memorandum on the Product Regulation and Metrology Bill. If Members are content to note this, we’ll move on.

Correspondence from the chief executive of the National Archives and King's Printer on the Legislation (Procedure, Publication and Repeals) (Wales) Bill. The chief executive of the National Archives and King's Printer has written to the committee following his appearance before us last week, during which he provided evidence on the Legislation (Procedure, Publication and Repeals) (Wales) Bill. He offered the committee an opportunity to learn more about the online legislation service, including its Welsh language aspect, through a webinar introduction led by in-house experts. Are Members content to note this? Yes.

I now ask the committee, under Standing Order 17.42, to resolve to exclude the public from the remainder of the meeting. Do Members agree? Yes. We now move into private session.