National Assembly for Wales

Good afternoon and welcome, all, to this Plenary meeting. The first item will be questions to the First Minister. The first question this afternoon is from Vaughan Gething.

Planning makes a major contribution to green growth, social housing provision and addressing the nature and climate emergencies. For that reason, accelerating planning decisions is one of my top priorities. A delivery plan setting out proposals to accelerate decisions is being prepared.

Thank you for your answer, First Minister. I welcome your focus on speeding up planning decisions to help grow the economy. This is an area where we have to do better in Wales—of course, you have experience from the private sector in this regard. Three weeks ago in First Minister's questions, I raised the Cardiff parkway, which is endorsed in the Burns commission proposals as an alternative to the M4 relief road. It's worth reflecting again that there is no credible publicly funded alternative for a station in east Cardiff. This is a significant transport and economic development proposal that should create well-paid jobs in one of the least advantaged communities in the country. It's almost two years since the planning proposal was called in by a previous Welsh Minister. First Minister, can you confirm which Minister has now been allocated to determine this matter, following the two planning inspector reports, and when could we expect a decision?

Diolch yn fawr, Vaughan. You say three weeks ago—it feels like three years ago to me when you last asked about this. A planning application for the development has been called in for determination by Welsh Ministers. The Welsh Government's planning directorate have received the planning inspector's report for the application. That is now being actively considered by officials, and a decision will be issued as soon as possible. Now, obviously, because this is a call-in case, I'm unable to provide any comments on any of the merits of the proposals because we want to avoid prejudicing that final decision. I intend to make the final decision on the application.

If we are to fully unleash Wales's green energy potential, then the timely approval of planning applications is paramount, as the wheels of the private sector turn far quicker than the wheels of the public sector. Indeed, there is currently no certainty in how long these planning applications will take to be determined, which leaves investors nervous and often looking elsewhere, to other countries, who are far more proactive and welcoming of such investment. If we don't get this right, then Wales will miss out on a once-in-a-generation opportunity to regenerate and reinvigorate areas of our country that have sadly seen jobs and industry leave. So, how is the Welsh Government committed to being open for business through its planning regime, in both word and deed, so that the opportunities and the necessity in grasping those opportunities isn't missed?

I absolutely agree with you. I think this is a real opportunity for the nation, in particular when it comes to offshore wind development. That is why one of the key priorities that I've set out is to streamline those planning applications, to make sure that we can speed things up, that we can do things within a time frame. It's not straightforward to do that, because you also have to allow other parties to have their say, to make sure that you get the balance right between economic development and the environment. So, we've got to make sure that the system is correct and robust, but we also need to make sure that the resourcing is there, to make sure that those decisions can be made in a prompt time. So, it is an area that I'm absolutely focused on, and something that, clearly, the economy, energy and planning Minister has at the top of her agenda.

Our transport strategy, 'Llwybr Newydd', sets out our vision for all parts of Wales, including Mid and West Wales. We will deliver on that strategy with reference to our national transport delivery plan, as well as the regional transport plans, which are being developed by corporate joint committees. These are the committees of several councils who join together to undertake strategic decisions for a broader region.

Thank you very much. Time and again, you as a Government have encouraged people to use their cars less and to use public transport in order to meet climate change and net-zero targets. But I'm increasingly concerned that these are empty words, because what's happening in the region that I represent is that there is contraction in terms of public transport. Just last week, we received confirmation that services along the Heart of Wales line, that iconic railway line that goes from Llanelli to Shrewsbury, would be curtailed from December this year. The irony, of course, is that while transport infrastructure in mid Wales is creaking, more than £4 billion in funding is owed to Wales by Westminster as a result of the HS2 fraud. Just imagine the difference that that funding could make not only to the Heart of Wales line, but in transforming public transport in every part of Wales. So, as we expect the budget of the Westminster Labour Government at the end of this month, could we have some clarity from you on whether you've had any discussions with the Government in order to ensure that every penny of that £4 billion owed to us does come to Wales?

Thank you very much. I don't think that it's empty rhetoric. The fact is we've seen, across the whole of Wales, an increase of 27 per cent in people using trains in Wales between April and June. That is a huge increase and something that we should celebrate. I accept that that is easier in some parts of Wales compared to others. For the Heart of Wales line, it is true to say that there will be a reduction in services, from five to four, but there will be additional seats available and there will also be capacity for cyclists on that line too.

In terms of HS2, we are still putting pressure on the UK Government for fairness in terms of what's happened in relation to investment in that infrastructure. I don't think that figure of £4 billion is realistic, but I do want to be clear that those discussions are ongoing.

First Minister, people in mid Wales are absolutely fed up of having to put up with overcrowded trains on the Shrewsbury-to-Aberystwyth Cambrian line. For many years, there have been commitments made by Transport for Wales and previous Ministers here. We’ve been told that new rolling stock, new carriages, would be coming online in 2023, then it was this winter, and now we’re told it’s the back end of next year. It's all very frustrating and disappointing when new rolling stock is already in use in other parts of Wales. On top of that, we’re also told—despite 10 years of commitments from Welsh Government Ministers here and from Transport for Wales that there will be a true hourly service—that, from 2026, that will only be for four months of the year. Now, of course, it’s your Government that wants to encourage people out of their cars and onto public transport. I can hear other Members shouting about Westminster—these are commitments that have been made for a decade by Welsh Government Ministers here and it’s the Welsh Government that owns Transport for Wales and operates Transport for Wales. So, my question is to you, First Minister: when will it be that the people of mid Wales can have a train service that they can rely on and that is a good service, and it’s a good service that they can depend upon so they can get out of their cars and onto public transport?

Thanks very much, Russell. You’ll be aware that the demand on those services changes quite radically from season to season. What is happening is that the timetable will be reflecting the difference between the summer months and the winter months. I’m sure you’ll be pleased to hear that there will be an additional service between Aberystwyth and Shrewsbury from May 2025, and additional services to establish an hourly service from the summer months between Aberystwyth and Shrewsbury from 2026. So, I hope you can take that information back. But, also, there will be an effort to reinstate two services on the Cambrian Coast line in the summer months, alongside doubling the capacity on some of the busier services. That’s because we’ve been listening to passengers and stakeholders in developing the timetable, reflecting those changes and responding to what the people on those lines need.

Questions now from the party leaders. The leader of the Conservatives, Andrew R.T. Davies.   

Thank you, Presiding Officer. First Minister, I'm sure you were alarmed and disturbed by the BBC programme that's going to be broadcast tomorrow night, that is on the iPlayer for people to view today, about Neil Foden, the disgraced headteacher from north Wales who undertook horrific acts of abuse against vulnerable individuals who were in his care and trust. It is a fact, by the look of the evidence that's coming forward, that level of abuse was undertaken over far many more decades rather than the years that the court case that found him guilty dealt with in July. What assessment, since his conviction in July, has the Welsh Government taken, because Neil Foden was used as an expert witness very often in educational matters, as an adviser to the Welsh Government, and also as a witness here to committees in the Senedd, over the impact of his actions? And, importantly, what will the Welsh Government do to make sure that the victims' voices are heard in this terrible case?

Thanks very much. Can I, first of all, put on record my support and sympathy for the victims who have been so brave in coming forward? And I don't think any of us should underestimate how difficult it is when that abuse happens, when people are at a vulnerable age and a difficult stage, with people in positions of power. It is absolutely unacceptable, and I'd like to pay tribute to them. Now, the key thing is that we learn lessons and that we try and avoid this kind of situation happening again. I think it's true to say that Neil Foden, actually, came in to a committee to give evidence—a committee that I think you were a member of—during the last Senedd, so it's obviously something that the Senedd may want to consider. But, just in terms of lessons learnt, I think what's important now is that we look at the review, we learn from the review. I know there are experts in there now giving training to people on the local authority, for example, to make sure that they know what to look at in these kinds of circumstances. 

One of the comments that has come forward is the quite clear remark at the start of the programme, which talks of how he was able to hide for so long. Now, that is a legitimate question that many of the victims and, indeed, anyone looking at it with an objective view would take. How was an individual who had accusations put against him of bullying and also inappropriate behaviour, confirmed by disciplinary procedure and outcomes, still able to receive promotion to become an executive head in the Gwynedd council area of two substantial schools and the victims' voices not being seen to be heard? Now, I did ask what assessment has the Welsh Government been doing over the summer about this specific case because, time and time again, when we come to the floor of the Senedd and we focus on these tragic cases, it is very often seen that there were red flags through the process that could have been picked up. And then, when a report is done, little or no action seems to follow about the people who didn't act on those red flags. So, what is the Welsh Government doing, working with the local authority, who was his employer, to make sure that if people didn't act in the best interests of pupils and people within his care—they didn't act in that best interest—they will be held to account and disciplinary action will be taken against them?

Thanks very much. Look, this is not the first time we've seen somebody commit these kinds of dreadful acts in full view of what was going on, and it demonstrates the manipulative nature of some people who act in this way. But there are opportunities, and I'm sure there were opportunities that were missed, and that's why that safeguarding review that is being undertaken needs to be a thorough review, it needs to be a sensitive review, you need to listen very, very carefully and sensitively to the victims, you need to listen carefully to the councillors who were involved in promoting and appointing him to those positions. Where were the red flags? All of that work is being undertaken, as we speak.

I very much hope that the inquiry will get to the bottom of this and, actually, give some form of closure and comfort, if that's the right word, to the victims, because they will always have the memories of the horrors that were inflicted on them, but by seeing some form of improvement and safeguarding measures being taken and people held to account, hopefully that will bring a level of closure so that people will be able to get on with their lives.

Could I ask you about a separate subject, First Minister? Two weeks ago, I questioned you about the announcement at the Labour Party conference over patients from Wales being able to access surplus capacity to reduce waiting times here in Wales—something that I commended the Government for considering and bringing forward. Last week, the health Secretary, in an interview on WalesOnline, said that that was not the case and that patients would not be able to access that second-offer option. It's quite clear, it's there for all to read. So, we have a view from the First Minister that that capacity is going to be purchased by the Welsh Government to enable patients to travel, something that sounds good, and then we have the health Secretary saying that that's not the case. Which is the policy position of the Welsh Government? Will there be greater capacity purchased and will patients see themselves progressing up the waiting list and getting the procedures that they want?

I think what's important is that you read what we actually say, rather than interpret it. Actually, none of us has said that we're going to be buying capacity from the NHS in England. It may be that we do that at some point, but we have never said it out loud; it's people interpreting that for us. So, you can look back at what we've said. We've been very careful to check this, because we kept on saying, 'Where is this coming from?' And it wasn't coming from us. So, it's really important that we are accurate, that you are accurate and that the media is accurate, and that they actually listen to what we say rather than interpreting it. 

What happened was that, last week, you will have seen the announcement made by Jeremy Miles, the Cabinet Secretary for Health and Social Care, of that appointment of experts, including somebody who was the chief operating officer for the NHS in England. We have Professor Tim Briggs, who was the pioneer and chair of the Getting It Right First Time programme; we have Professor Sally Lewis, who is an expert in value in healthcare; Marcus Longley, who many will know as an expert in healthcare in Wales; Adam Roberts, who has held senior roles across the NHS in England, where he's currently director for urgent and emergency care operational insight—[Interruption.] They are big curricula vitae want you to listen to these curricula vitae, because they're coming in to advise us—[Interruption.]

Allow the First Minister to respond and to clarify the situation for us all. That's what you asked for, Andrew R.T. Davies. It's being provided by the First Minister now. 

They are coming in to advise us on how best to work the system so that we can bring down those waiting lists quickest. So, I think that you should wait and see what we will commission, how we will commission it and where we will commission it, and we'll be using these expert advisers to support us in that journey.

The leader of Plaid Cymru, Rhun ap Iorwerth.

What discussion did the First Minister have with Keir Starmer before the appointment of Sue Gray as special envoy to the nations and regions? 

I think it's really wonderful that we will be having our first meeting of the nations and regions council on Friday, where, of course, we will have the leaders of the nations of the United Kingdom coming together, including the leader of Scotland, an SNP Member, who is, I'm sure, as delighted as I am that we will have an opportunity to discuss how we can work together for the benefit of our nations, where that makes sense.

Perhaps I should just have asked what is a special envoy, because I certainly have no idea. I hope the First Minister can see how terrible this looks, and it raises some pretty serious questions if she doesn't. What's really worrying is that this appointment undermines the ability of a Welsh First Minister to have a direct relationship with Keir Starmer. I know his unpopularity means she doesn't want me to mention him, but it's not my fault that the chaos and infighting we've seen in Welsh Labour ranks in recent months have spread to Keir Starmer's team too.

This also, of course, undermines the Welsh Secretary. Neither the First Minister nor the Labour Welsh Secretary are now the first point of contact for Keir Starmer when it comes to dealing with Wales. Just let that sink in. When Labour proclaimed change, little did we think that what it meant in reality was that the First Minister would have to be taking her orders from someone now unwanted by the Prime Minister as his chief of staff and unelected by the public. How did the First Minister allow herself to be relegated to third in Labour's pecking order, behind Sue Gray and Jo Stevens?

I don't know what fairy-tale land he's living in, but I think I just explained that I'm meeting the First Minister on Friday. I'm going to be having a one-to-one meeting with the Prime Minister, Keir Starmer. That is, I think, the first time I've said this today; it's the twenty-seventh time he's mentioned his name in the three weeks we've been meeting since the summer. And what we will be doing is having a meeting—[Interruption.]

Allow the First Minister to answer the questions, please.

Well, I will answer, I'd love to answer, because it is absolutely fair to say that you're making up this nonsense. I have a direct relationship. He is meeting me on Friday. We're having a one-to-one meeting on Friday. I will then be having a meeting with my counterparts who are leaders of the other nations, including the SNP leader. So, if you've got a problem with this, maybe you should talk to your counterpart in Scotland. But I think it's a good thing. I think it's a good thing that the nations and regions are being taken seriously, unlike under the last Tory Government. The last one never met. So, let's talk about the importance of this. And the crucial thing is that this is about practical issues as well. We're meeting to discuss investment opportunities, and that will bounce into the huge investment summit that will be happening on Monday, where, once again, the leaders of the nations have been invited and will be involved in a way that they were never invited and involved under the Tories.

The First Minister talks about making things up; the only thing I see being made up here is jobs for people that Keir Starmer no longer wants in his top team, so that he can hive off responsibility for having to deal with Wales. The First Minister doesn't want me to talk about UK Labour. She says I've mentioned Keir Starmer 27 times; I've mentioned him hundreds of times, and I'll mention him again, because he's the Prime Minister of the UK that's treating Wales unfairly when it comes to fair funding and so on. If she doesn't want me to mention him, she should tell her boss not to make announcement after announcement affecting Wales—from cuts to winter fuel payments to dodgy cross-border health deals that her own Cabinet Member for health clearly wants nothing to do with. All these decisions have a real impact on the lives of the people of Wales.

The UK Labour Government's first budget is just three weeks away, so the people of Wales will rightly be expecting that the First Minister has been busy making the case for a fair deal—multibillion-pound HS2 consequentials, the devolution of the Crown Estate, a windfall tax on large energy companies, things that could make a real difference to Wales. So, can the First Minister confirm what conversations she's had with Rachel Reeves and what exactly she's pressed for to be included in the budget? Will it bring an end to the Barnett formula, so we can be fairly funded, or, come 30 October, will the chancellor show she has no appetite for change for Wales, that she's ready to ignore the Welsh Government and to relegate the First Minister to fourth place in the pecking order?

Thanks very much. I do think it's important that the people who may be watching First Minister's questions recognise that, actually, I'm here to be held to account for the decisions that I make here in Wales. I can't be held to account for the decisions that are made in a different establishment. But if you want to keep doing that—[Interruption.] If you want to keep doing that, that's fine. It's not a problem for me. It's—[Interruption.] 

The First Minister is answering the question.

It's not a problem for me, but I just think, generally, the people of Wales might be interested in the things where I do have a degree of control. I have had a meeting with Rachel Reeves in a political capacity, actually, so that is something where—. And we have had a meeting with the previous finance Minister right at the beginning of my tenure as First Minister, where we did have an opportunity to note these things, and, yes, the issue of HS2 was raised. It will be something that we will continue to raise, because there's a fundamental unfairness in the way that HS2 was funded.

Workforce health and well-being is a top priority, and we've provided funding for initiatives to ensure our dedicated workforce can access a wide range of support when they need it most.

Thank you for your response. First Minister, you'll know better than many inside this Chamber and outside of the pressures that are on top of our health boards at present. I was recently contacted by a constituent who set out a truly worrying situation she found herself in whilst working within our health service. Sadly, there are many more cases like this from all corners of Wales. But in this case, whilst working as a nurse at the Grange hospital, she had a number of serious concerns, including bullying and harassment, severe staff shortages, rogue nurses, badge swapping and sepsis patients going without treatment and, in her words, 'left to die'. Shockingly, according to my constituent, all nursing staff at the Grange were told at all shift handovers not to report any issues via any official channels. When my constituent did, indeed, flag these issues with her agency, various complaints were then levelled against her that she says were fabricated and no evidence was ever supplied. First Minister, this whole situation has had an unimaginable impact on my constituent, who says that she's lost all faith in our health service and would never ever return back to nursing. All she wants now is for action to be taken to ensure this never ever happens again to anyone else working in nursing. So, First Minister, will you commit to looking into this matter and making sure that lessons are learned so that something like this isn't repeated, and ensure anyone accused of any offence within the health board, regardless of their contractual status or obligation, receives a fair hearing? Thank you.

Thanks very much. We do have now a very clear speaking up safely framework for NHS staff, because we think it's important that they work in an environment where they feel valued, where they feel that they're not being discriminated against, where they don't feel harassed or bullied. They need to feel comfortable in challenging that unacceptable behaviour and that's precisely what this framework is set out to do. So, I would suggest that you get back in touch with your constituent to ask her to look at that framework, because it is important that those concerns are taken seriously and there is a framework to allow that to happen. If she feels that hasn't been honoured, then she needs to follow up with the right procedures, and if you wanted to know what those procedures are, I'm sure that the health Minister would give you that information.

I thank Natasha for that opening question. If we have learned anything from the pandemic, it is the need to look after the well-being of the workforce. That means giving them the flexibility in order to have a better work-life balance, or to develop their professional skills. According to the nurse retention plan, which the First Minister announced when she was health Minister last year, organisations are expected to respond compassionately to flexible working requests in accordance with the needs of the service. But the Royal College of Nursing tells me that a number of nurses come to them saying that their requests to work flexibly have been rejected. Does the First Minister therefore believe that this policy that she introduced is working, and will she release the data to show the level of success of the measure?

Thank you very much. Certainly, as the Minister that was responsible for mental health during the pandemic, I was highly aware how important looking after the mental health of people working in the service at that time was. I'm very pleased to say that we do have a service that we're spending £1.5 million a year on to ensure that people have a service that they can access. 

In terms of nurse retention and that ability to work flexibly, this is something relatively new, and obviously it's important that we look at how it's working in practice. We must ensure that the needs of the service are also taken into account, but the default is that permission to work flexibly should be granted, and I think that that is better than seeing people leaving to work for agencies. So, that's the concept underpinning it. We will have to look at how it's working on the ground. Perhaps it's working better in some areas than others, so I'm sure the Minister for health will want to assess how it's working on a practical level and will want to consider what needs to be done to improve the situation, if it isn't working in the way that we first anticipated.

Our plans for strategic road network improvements are listed in the national transport delivery plan. Furthermore, in this financial year, we are providing more than £7.5 million to Pembrokeshire County Council to improve local transport, including developing more resilient roads, creating safe routes in communities and carrying out road safety training.

Thank you for that response, First Minister. But one way to improve road safety in Pembrokeshire is to ensure that road layouts are appropriate and that traffic can actually properly flow. Now, as you'll be aware, there are significant traffic problems around the Salutation Square roundabout in Haverfordwest, and have been for several years. Now, as you know, this is, of course, a trunk road and it is causing a huge amount of frustration for local motorists, and, crucially, there have been a number of near accidents around the area. Now, I've raised this with a few Cabinet Secretaries and Ministers over the years, and despite promises to work with local stakeholders to develop measures to improve road safety, little action has actually been taken. One solution could be to introduce a traffic-light system on the roundabout, and therefore will you commit to looking at this specific matter with your officials so that this issue can be finally resolved and the area can be safer for everyone?

Well, thanks very much. It's great to hear the Conservatives taking such an interest in road safety, and I'm sure that you will be interested—[Interruption.] I'm sure you'll be interested to hear the latest information that we've seen a 23 per cent reduction in the number of serious accidents since the 20 mph was introduced.

In terms of the safety of road layouts, I think it's really important to recognise that, yes, there are lots of issues and lots of areas where there needs to be a focus. I'm aware of the situation in Salutation Square—of course, that is a matter for the local authorities to be dealing with. But what I can tell you is that a significant amount of funding has been provided by the Welsh Government to support transport grants, including £3.37 million for the Haverfordwest bus station, and if we can get that up and running, then, obviously, it will relieve some of the traffic going into the centre. So, I do hope that that, which has taken a long time to come to fruition, will happen pretty soon.

Our child poverty strategy, which was launched in January of this year, sets out our long-term ambitions to tackle child poverty and to mitigate the worst impacts of poverty here in Wales. It also notes how we will work across Government and with partners to maximise the impact of the levers available to us.

Thank you for that response.

You'll know that, over the past six years, we've seen a startling increase in the number of larger families who are living in relative poverty. Forty-three per cent of children in households of three or more are now at risk of relative poverty. That represents a staggering 100,000 children here in Wales. The two-child benefit cap is a key factor driving that crisis. This policy, widely criticised as being cruel and a violation of children's rights by numerous civil society organisations, including the Children's Commissioner for Wales, affects over 11 per cent of children—65,000 children. And in Brecon and Radnorshire, nearly 1,000 children are living in families affected by the two-child benefit cap.

This week the Child Poverty Action Group said that 10,000 children have fallen into poverty since Labour took office in Westminster. I'm calling on you, as the First Minister, to raise this once again with the Prime Minister, and perhaps you could do that on Friday in your meeting with him. But I'm also just reflecting on the fact that my party, when we were in Government in the coalition, made mistakes, and I'm very clear on record as saying that one of those was playing our role in austerity. First Minister, I'd like to call on you—we are all adults here and we should be able to acknowledge that people make mistakes. I'm calling on you to make a statement that it is a mistake to put—[Interruption.]

Allow the Member to finish her question, please. There are too many noises off today from all directions. I wasn't, actually, expecting that one just now, but I do want the Member to finish her question, please.

Thank you, just one more sentence.

Just one more sentence. I'm calling on the First Minister to say that she believes that the two-child benefit cap, and the failure of the Labour Government to scrap it, is a mistake. Diolch yn fawr iawn.

Thanks very much. Well, I think there are lots of people within the Labour Party who are very uncomfortable about it; that's the truth of it, but there is the £22 billion black hole that is difficult to fill. What we've got to do in Wales is do what we can to support children living in poverty, and that's why things like the free-school-meal support are absolutely fundamental, so that at least they're getting a hot meal once a day, so there is some support there. Obviously, we have a huge number of other areas where we give support, in particular to those vulnerable families; we gave about £5 billion-worth between 2022 and 2025. That's not a small amount of money to give support to some of the most vulnerable people, so, where we can, we will provide that support, but the kinds of quantities of money that you would need are simply beyond the ability of the Welsh Government to support. 

First Minister, the Welsh Government's 'Child Poverty Strategy for Wales 2024' in part talks about how children living in poverty are at a higher risk of speech, language and communication needs, and that early intervention can improve outcomes long term. Evidence suggests that over 50 per cent of children in socially deprived areas may start school with impoverished speech, language and communication skills, and, sadly, this can hold them back in their learning.

The Welsh Government's programme, Talk With Me, which you will be well aware of, has been designed to improve awareness of how adult interaction, particularly in the early years, can improve speech, language and communication. An implementation plan was designed to record baseline current performance and then introduce a more robust data-collection mechanism to monitor progress. What evidence can the Welsh Government now provide that this programme has been successful in helping to improve speech, language and communication among children, and what funding have you identified is needed to continue to improve the programme? Thank you.

Thanks very much. I do think it's fundamental to make sure that we give that support, particularly to those vulnerable families, and that's why things like our Flying Start programmes and targeting those areas are so fundamental. I'm really pleased to see that we've been able to expand that programme, because that's where you can give that intensity of support that is so crucial in those early years. We all know that the first 1,000 days really, really matter in the formation of a child's development. 

You were talking specifically, though, about speech and language. Obviously, some of those can be called in to support those Flying Start areas. The Talk With Me programme has been successful. The issue is, actually, finding enough speech therapists to support that, and that's not straightforward because, actually, it takes quite a while to train each speech therapist. The demand is increasing constantly, and, obviously, the NHS is very keen to take advantage of those skills as well. So, there's more to do in that space, but we're very aware that there is a need. I'm pleased to say that Health Education and Improvement Wales has increased the number of speech and language therapists. 

You talk about the millions spent on supporting children in poverty, as if that's something to be proud about—it's not, it's something we should be ashamed of, that we have to do it. We have to provide that support because, as the Institute for Fiscal Studies termed it,

'the single most cost-effective policy for reducing the number of children living below the poverty line is removing the two-child limit.'

And that's not within our power. A year ago your present social justice Minister said:

'we continuously call'—

talking about the Welsh Government—

'for an abolition of the benefit cap and two-child limit, because we believe that these are key drivers of poverty amongst larger families in Wales, in particular.'

That was only a year ago. So, what will you be calling on the UK Labour Government to do differently in this year's budget to help the Welsh Government tackle child poverty?

Thanks very much. I think the key thing when it comes to child poverty is to make sure that there are opportunities also for people to get jobs, and if people are working they are able to support their families. In order to do that, we need to make sure that the child support is where it should be, and I'm pleased to say that we've seen an expansion in that in this Senedd term. But the focus, I think, on growing the economy is absolutely key, because if we grow the economy you can use those taxes in order to support the kind of social justice agenda that you and I are so interested in.

Question 6, Janet Finch-Saunders.

You can ask your question, Janet.

Thank you. 

There are no proposals to increase income tax in Wales.

I will hold you to that. The reason I've asked the question is Mark Drakeford MS, back in charge of finance—there is some cause for concern, because the Cabinet Secretary refused to rule out income tax increases. On 3 October he wrote to me again, refusing to actually rule out any increases, and in fact it was only last week that he spoke of raising the basic 20p rate and how much it would bring in significant money for Wales. However, as the finance Cabinet Secretary has also admitted, we know that most people now are on the very edge of managing, and sometimes not managing at all, when it comes to their home finances. So, it is reassuring, that. I hope the media report that, because there are an awful lot of people who believe, just like Keir Starmer—the Prime Minister, I should say—there is obviously a feeling now that you're just going to tax and tax and tax, so it's quite reassuring that you say there will be no increase to income tax in Wales. Diolch, First Minister. 

What is it with you Tories? Honestly—you’re just making things up that we say. There's never—. The Cabinet Secretary for finance was clear at the Finance Committee he does not intend to increase the Welsh rate of income tax, and I think it's really important to recognise that it's not his decision alone what happens. There's a Senedd. There's a whole system to go through. It may be you want to put up the taxes, but we won't be voting for that. We won't be voting for that. And you have been doing that. You put them up quite a lot under your leadership—a 70-year high, I understand, in terms of taxes. But we as a Government will not be suggesting we put up taxes. So, go and tell your little friends—[Interruption.]—go and tell your little friends in The Telegraph that what they write is nonsense.

We are aware that many pensioners in Wales are concerned about cuts to the winter fuel allowance. We continue to support people to alleviate financial pressures across Wales, including in South Wales East. Our fuel voucher and discretionary assistance schemes are available to help people in crisis with fuel costs, while our Warm Homes programme is delivering measures to improve energy efficiency and reduce energy bills for the long term.

Diolch, Gweinidog. This does concern me greatly. In the coming weeks, thousands of pensioners in Wales will suffer the cold bite of winter because their winter fuel allowance has been cut. Now, this is the grim result of Labour's lack of will because, yes, the Tories started this—their cruelty was catastrophic—but so is the choice Labour is making to stick with their savagery. Because forcing people to endure the cold under this merciless private system, which monetises the heat we need to stay alive, cutting off their means of comfort, that is savagery. It is condemning people to the cold. So, please, Prif Weinidog, will your Government make a last-minute plea to Keir Starmer's Government to rethink this cruel cut? Surely, you don't want your Government to be associated with it. 

Well, thanks very much. I'm aware that there will be lots of pensioners across Wales who'll be very concerned about this situation, and that's why we are very keen as a Government, as is the Government of the United Kingdom, to make sure that all of those who are eligible for the winter fuel payments will actually take up that opportunity. We can do what we can in the Welsh Government in order to support people, and it's really great to see that councils like Neath Port Talbot Council have already helped 2,100 people to apply for that pension credit, which means that they will then be eligible. So, I'd encourage all councils across Wales to really drive that information project forward in order to make sure that all those eligible, which will support the poorest—. I think that is important, that they're aware of that.  

We are as a Government doing what we can to support people with their winter fuel situation. We are investing £30 million a year in our Warm Homes Nest scheme, and we've also provided more than £5.6 million of funding for a national fuel voucher and heat fund, and that's been in place since 2022. So, we're doing what we can in this space, but I think it's also important for pensioners to note—. I speak to a lot of people and I was speaking to one of them who raised this issue with me on the weekend, and he didn't have any idea that, actually, his pension this year would be going up by 8.5 per cent, and would be going up by 4 per cent next year. So, altogether he'll be better off but, obviously, there is a lot of sensitivity around this, and a lot of people who are concerned about the situation. 

Finally, question 8. Buffy Williams. 

Vapes should never be used by children and young people. As part of my Government’s mission to create a healthier Wales, we'll tackle nicotine addiction in all its forms and plan to tackle youth vaping by stopping these products from being deliberately targeted at children.

Thank you. Youth vaping is a growing concern in Rhondda. I've been contacted by angry residents regarding a new vape store that's recently opened in Treorchy. Like most other vape stores, it has illuminated signs that are out of keeping with the high street. It has a double-fronted display of bright-coloured vapes that are clearly marketed towards young people, and it's on the main route to both the primary and comprehensive schools. Local councillor Bob Harris has made representations to Rhondda Cynon Taf County Borough Council planning and planning enforcement to no avail. We also visited Treorchy Comprehensive School last week, who will continue their work on raising awareness around the dangers of vaping for young people.

First Minister, what further action can you take to support local communities through reviews of planning permissions and regulations for vape stores, especially store names and signage? And what more can be done to tackle the branding and marketing of vapes so that they're less appealing to young people? Also, is there scope for a broader Wales-wide campaign across schools to address youth vaping more robustly?  

Well, thanks very much. I think we're all shocked by the proliferation of vape stores; they seem to be popping up everywhere and, clearly, this is an area where we need local authorities to use planning regulations and guidance to ensure that new premises conform to law. And we're very keen to make sure that local health boards play an active role when councils are developing local development plans. So, I do think that it's really important we get those local development plans right, so that, when the planning applications go in, if it doesn't conform to what we want to see—and this is vapes, but I think you could say the same thing about fast food stores outside schools and things, all of those things—. I think there's real opportunity to tighten things up in this space, and that's certainly something that I'll be interested in pursuing. 

Just in terms of advertising, look, it's clear that we have to explore all progressive actions to restrict the marketing, advertising, of flavours, which is clearly targeted at children, and it is shocking to see how many children now take up and try those products. I think 18 per cent of young people aged 11 to 17 have tried the products. So, there's far more to do in this space and, obviously, the UK Government will be bringing in that tobacco and vapes Bill, and we'll be looking to see how we can work with them to progress this agenda.

I thank the First Minister.

The next item will be the business statement and announcement, and I call on the Trefnydd to make the statement—Jane Hutt.

Thank you very much, Llywydd. There are no changes to this week's business. Draft business for the next three weeks is set out on the business statement and announcement, which can be found among Members' papers electronically.

Trefnydd, can I call for two statements this week: one from you in your capacity as the Cabinet Secretary for Social Justice in order that we can have an update for Members of the Senedd in relation to the action being taken by the Welsh Government to address antisemitism in Wales? Yesterday, of course, marked the anniversary of the terrible atrocities of 7 October 2023, when Hamas terrorists attacked innocent civilians in Israel, and we've seen some horrible events unfold from that date. And it was pleasing to see that the First Minister did issue a written statement to mark that anniversary, but I think it is important that we understand the further action that the Welsh Government is taking to address antisemitism in Wales. It does exist; it is a problem that we all need to work together to crack down on.

Secondly, can I call for a statement from the Cabinet Secretary with responsibility for homelessness in relation to the problems that we're seeing with homelessness amongst the veteran community across Wales? I was in touch with a homelessness support organisation in north Wales, and with Alabare UK, who both, of course, work on veteran housing issues. But it is very clear to me that more work needs to be done. There are homeless veterans, unfortunately, in north Wales at the moment, who are living in tents, in Airbnbs, short-term accommodation, and, clearly, it's outrageous that people who've served our country in the military do not have the dignity of a proper home. I was pleased to see the UK Prime Minister, in his conference speech to the Labour Party conference, make specific reference about ending veteran homelessness. Now, clearly, that ought to have consequences here in Wales as well, and I would like to know what action the Welsh Government is going to now take in order to address homelessness amongst the veteran community here in Wales, given that that's a devolved responsibility, and given the commitment that the UK Prime Minister has made.

Thank you very much, Darren Millar, and I think it is very important that we recognise today the written statement, of course, from the First Minister about—. It's tragic to say it's an anniversary of those events this time last year, and I have to say, not just the written statement from the First Minister, I've also written to both our Jewish colleagues in Wales and also to the Muslim Council for Wales. I'm intending to make visits to the places of worship and to meet people again, as I did on many occasions last year. We're extremely concerned by reports of increases of hate crime targeted towards Jewish and Muslim communities in Wales, and I think the main message I want to give today is that we're encouraging members of these communities to report any hate incidents. The Wales hate support centre, which we fund, is run by Victim Support, and we've asked our Wales hate support centre to monitor for any spikes in reporting of antisemitic and Islamophobic hate crime, and to ensure that service users are receiving the support they need. So, I'd be very happy to again report back on those engagements in which I'm taking part with those communities affected in the coming days and weeks.

So, on your second question, yes, important in terms of actually a very robust statement made by the Cabinet Secretary for Housing and Local Government last week about ways in which we're reaching out to meet those housing needs in our communities, which we recognise, of course, can include vulnerable veterans as well. I think it's really important to recognise that across Wales we have really important, robust partnership covenants with our local authorities and with our veterans and armed forces as well in terms of those arrangements. So, again, the Cabinet Secretary will, I'm sure, be acknowledging that in terms of the way we're responding with homelessness and the White Papers that are due shortly.

Yesterday, a report was published by the Cwm Taf Morgannwg safeguarding board setting out grave failings in the care of a patient with paranoid schizophrenia who killed June Fox-Roberts, a 65-year-old grandmother, in November 2021. What is appalling for June's family is the confirmation that June could still be alive today if Luke had received the care that he should have. This is the fourth such case in the Cwm Taf Morgannwg area between 2018 and 2021, and the final recommendation of the report suggests that the Welsh Government should commission a thematic review. I would like to ask for an oral statement from the Cabinet Secretary for Health and Social Care on this issue so that we as Senedd Members representing the region and the Cwm Taf Morgannwg area can get answers in terms of what lessons not only have been noted but also have been acted upon. Because I don't want to see another report making the same recommendations again, or also to hear about a family being told that a member of their family could still be alive if a patient had received the care that they should.

Thank you very much for your very important question.

It is important that any recommendations that emerge from situations and circumstances such as you describe, that they're not just implemented but also that they're monitored as well. The Cabinet Secretary for Health and Social Care will look particularly at the case— the issue—and indeed the circumstance that you raised today. Diolch.

I'd like to ask for a statement by the Cabinet Secretary for Education regarding the announcement by Qualifications Wales last week that the British Sign Language GCSE is now suspended. I know that the GCSE was originally going to be available from 2026, and then it was put back to 2027, and now it has been suspended, so I'd like a statement explaining why this decision has been made. I've been contacted by constituents who are very concerned about this decision and feel that the deaf community is being let down. They did understand there was a commitment to this GCSE. I understand that, instead of the GCSE, BSL units would be available in the new Skills for Life qualifications, but this isn't the same as the commitment for people to have a full GCSE in British Sign Language; it doesn't carry the same weight or recognition. So, I'm asking for a statement to try and explain this very detrimental step.

Thank you very much, Julie Morgan. Of course, as colleagues know across the Chamber, Welsh Government recognised BSL as a language in 2004, and we're committed to the BSL signing community in Wales, and of course the first country in the UK to include British Sign Language in its curriculum, which, of course, is a really good, important step forward. So, this has been worked through with BSL practitioners and other experts, including members of the deaf community, to develop guidance on designing a curriculum that includes progression in BSL for deaf BSL users. So, of course, there is disappointment; there's disappointment about the decision by Qualifications Wales to suspend the development of a BSL GCSE, but I welcome, and as you commented on, that they have confirmed that they will continue to develop BSL units as part of the new skill suite qualification to be available from 2027, and, through that route, learners will have the opportunity to develop their practical BSL communication skills. And of course, the units will be easier for schools to manage, will be suitable for peripatetic learning, and also make good use of the existing teacher workforce. So, Qualifications Wales, I understand, will continue to monitor the development of BSL GCSE in England, and will seek to make this qualification available to schools in Wales.

Business Minister, please can I request a statement from the Cabinet Secretary for Economy, Energy and Planning about the future of Cardiff Airport? Last week, the Competition and Markets Authority published its report into the Welsh Government's planned taxpayer-bankrolled £206 million investment into the airport. The report effectively punched a large number of holes in the Welsh Government's submission and justification for the eye-watering subsidy, and essentially advised Ministers to go back to the drawing board and rewrite the package. Some of the major criticisms of the report included: a lack of evidence to support the Government's claims that the subsidy is indeed needed; a lack of scrutiny of the figures presented by the airport; a failure to understand the impact the subsidy would have on competition; and, again, a lack of evidence showing that this subsidy would change the airport's strategic focus from survival and recovery to, ultimately, growth. Fears were also noted in the report that this cash injection appears to be for the purpose of rescuing or restructuring an ailing or insolvent enterprise. That is a particularly important element, because, as I understand it, if that is the case and the airport is on the verge of going bust, then the subsidy cannot go ahead as per the Subsidy Control Act 2022. I ask for a statement setting out whether the Government will significantly alter the proposed subsidy in light of the Subsidy Advice Unit's criticisms, whether Ministers will consult with the wider aviation sector prior to reaching a decision, as, indeed, recommended by the SAU, and I'd also like to know what timescales the Government is working to. It would be very much appreciated by me and many others out there. So, thank you.

Well, thank you for your question. I'm very much aware that Cardiff Airport has only recently met with the Public Accounts and Public Administration Committee, as they do, because it is important that they are engaging with us in the Senedd, as well as Welsh Government. But can I put the record straight? The Competition and Markets Authority assessment of our proposed long-term investment—this is about investment in Cardiff Airport—was published on 2 October. The Cabinet Secretary for Economy, Energy and Planning, as you know, has issued a written statement in response. We're not going to comment, as is said in the written statement, on the detail of the CMA report, but we do need to take the time needed to give full consideration to their assessment. Of course, the Cabinet Secretary for Economy, Energy and Planning will update the Senedd in due course, once the best way forward has been decided. But, again, can we not just recognise the importance of our airport, and go back to the point that this is about investment in an airport for Wales, which also employs over 200 people? And you know that, because I know you've visited, Natasha, and have seen the great work that they do.

Trefnydd, you will be aware of an investigation by the BBC that includes new allegations about the paedophile Neil Foden, who was a school headteacher in my constituency. It's possible that he had abused pupils for more than 40 years. I'd like to put on record my sincere thanks to the BBC investigators and, more importantly, to the girls who have shared their terrible experiences—some of them for the first time. My heart bleeds for them and for the four young girls who were part of the recent court case. The television programme raises more concerns and even more questions. So, I ask the Welsh Government again to undertake a public inquiry. I also ask for an independent review of the processes of the council. We have to understand what else went wrong, in order to learn lessons, and we have to do that urgently. I understand the worries and the concerns that are being felt, and it is the victims that are important in all of this.

Diolch yn fawr, Siân Gwenllian. I'm glad that this has come up again from yourself, Siân Gwenllian.

Thank you very much for your very important question once again.

You've asked those questions before, and it was important that we had a question to the Prif Weinidog as well. To repeat, as you have and the First Minister, our thoughts, and the courage of those victims who came forward.

I agree with you.

It’s really important that we do look at the lessons learned, as the First Minister has said. You’ll be aware, of course, that the north Wales safeguarding board commissioned a child practice review and appointed an independent reviewer, but the child practice review isn’t due to conclude for several months. At this stage, our position remains that the child practice review should be allowed to conclude before any wider decisions are made. But, just to say, of course we’ll consider the findings of the review. We need to understand the full extent of any failings in current safeguarding arrangements, again ensuring that appropriate measures are put in place without delay to prevent such occurrences in the future. Actually, education officials are now reviewing the safeguarding of children in education, handling allegations of abuse against teachers and other staff, and consulting on statutory guidance currently planned to commence after the child practice review has been published.

I was very disappointed to read that Dŵr Cymru is considered to be a laggard in the water industry, along with two other companies. How we transition from a Victorian waste management system to one fit for the twenty-first century, in an era of climate change and extremes of flooding and drought, it seems to me is one that would merit a debate in Government time on how we manage both our rainwater as well as our sewage system, so that we’re not dumping our sewage into the rivers and seas, and we also have enough water when it doesn’t rain.

Diolch yn fawr, Jenny Rathbone. I have to say that I’m pleased that the Cabinet Secretary is here today, the Deputy First Minister, in terms of his responsibilities in relation to this, in terms of now understanding what this means in terms of the Office of Water Services and the response today. I think the relatively poor performance of Welsh Water and its failure—as you say, such a disappointing failure—to meet all of its current targets is disappointing. We’ve been clear that we expect water companies in Wales to deliver effectively for customers and for the environment, which is critically important. So, this is really where our strategic priorities statement to Ofwat and our steers to water companies have to set out our expectations for significant improvements in water company performance for the period 2025-30, as well as monitoring what’s happening now.

I'd like to request a statement from the Cabinet Secretary for finance regarding the planned protests against the cuts to business rates relief next Wednesday in Prestatyn. I met with Prestatyn business forum in August, and to say that the morale was low would be an understatement, Trefnydd. Footfall is considerably down, exacerbated by 20 mph and the closure of Pontins, costs have increased, and now they have had their business rates relief slashed from 75 per cent to 40 per cent, creating a huge disparity with England. What many business owners are telling me is that this could be the final straw and many of them may not survive. We could see the permanent closure of large swathes of our high street, turning Prestatyn into a dismal ghost town, a situation that I’m sure is similar to other towns across Wales.

A collection of businesses on the Prestatyn high street, therefore, are staging a demonstration on 16 October, in which they will either close their shops or paper over their shop frontages in protest at the cut to business rates relief and to demand parity with England. I think this will be quite a poignant spectacle and send a strong message to the Welsh Government regarding the damage that their budgetary decisions are causing.

So, could I receive a statement from the Cabinet Secretary for finance on whether he will listen to the demands of the protestors and take note of the severe impact the cut to rates relief is having on businesses in my constituency and across Wales? And will he join me in meeting with protestors to listen to their concerns and discuss ways in which he could help those affected businesses on Prestatyn high street? Thank you very much.

We do go back now to the Conservatives’ very short memories of the reasons why we are in such a dire position: the way you left us after 14 years of austerity and in a £22 billion black hole, which of course we have been attempting to address with, I think, a very important strategic approach, particularly to the way we are transforming towns with investment and also our business rates policy. But, clearly, this is something where, in terms of economic growth—and we've got a statement this afternoon—it is important for us to recognise the opportunities we have now in Wales, in terms of our position, our policies and the way forward, in terms of how we can support our towns and businesses, and,  indeed, that includes retail. So, there are many opportunities for you to pursue that as well as with the shops that you're going to be meeting—the retail sector you'll be meeting—in Prestatyn. 

May I ask for a statement from the Government, just so that the Government can explain whether you believe that it's fair that councils in Wales are paying significant fees to the Crown Estate in order to access beaches, sites and facilities within their own counties? I ask, of course, because there is a proposal by Councillor Dewi Jones from Plaid Cymru in Gwynedd, which was agreed recently, to try and tackle that issue in the Gwynedd context, which has to pay over £160,000 per annum in fees. Now, Gwynedd is just one county. You could multiply that manifold, and that, of course, is at a time when there is serious hardship facing local authorities, while simultaneously, by the way, the Crown Estate has seen its profits more than double, from £443 million to over £1.1 billion last year. So, a statement from the relevant Minister would be very beneficial, in the first instance to give us a picture of where you are in terms of the general devolution of the Crown Estate, but certainly to explain how the Government will respond urgently to a situation that is unfair, unjust and immoral?

Diolch yn fawr, Llyr Gruffydd. Well, this is something where there are regular meetings with the Crown Estate. Of course, this is something where we have engaged over issues, particularly like the raising of fees, because that has a real impact on our economy, and it's important that you've put that on the record today.

Could I just draw your attention, please, to a statement from the Cabinet Secretary for health with regard to the situation in Powys Teaching Health Board and, indeed, I'm sure other health boards as well? We're facing cuts to our services and the potential closure of our minor injury units in Brecon and in Llandrindod as well. The concern that residents have is that this is the beginning of cuts that will be delivered further down the line, and I just seek reassurance that the budget constraints on the health board currently will not mean that further cuts will be requested further down the line. Thank you very much. Diolch yn fawr iawn.

I think it is important that we look at what Powys Teaching Health Board is considering, whether this relates to budgets. I'm not sure if they're not related to budgets, and I think that needs to be clarified. Are they related to other policy changes? And, of course, that's something, I think, the Cabinet Secretary for Health and Social Care will be very mindful of and willing to consider these issues, but it does have to be, 'What's driving this?' and also, 'Where is the patient voice in this?'  Obviously, you've raised this today, Jane Dodds, and it is important then that we see what are the impacts, what are the reasons, what's behind this, in terms of what is perceived to be budget developments.

I wish to ask for a clear statement today regarding the future funding model of Welsh culture. The Wales music showcase at the Senedd last week demonstrated fully the sparkling quality and excellence of our publicly funded organisations—BBC National Orchestra of Wales, Welsh National Opera, Royal Welsh College of Music and Drama, National Music Service for Wales, Creative Wales, Anthem—and it also recognised the amazing economic contribution of the music stakeholders present to Wales. Today in 2024, the Welsh National Opera is defunded, withering and facing strike action—and it's not an organisation known for that militancy—and staring into the abyss of mediocrity from its position of excellence. Today in 2024, the Royal Welsh College of Music and Drama has no substitute for a national talent pipeline and is the only conservatoire in the world without such. And despite great steps forward with the national music service, Wales is playing a dangerous game of roulette with our cultural future. And it is wrong-headed to say that all such decisions are determined by arm's-length bodies; every body needs a head and a strategic direction.

So, I ask for a statement to this Senedd, outlining the timescale of the anticipated review of the Welsh cultural strategy. We cannot cancel out the age-old concept of excellence, the cornerstone and primary aim of artistic pursuit for all millennia, or else we ban, close and shut all museums, theatres and art galleries and cancel forever the Olympic Games and all artistic pursuit. Music is no different. It's a serious omission within this current strategy, and it has misdirected and steered very scarce funding to national detriment. And finally, what is the plan for saving Welsh National Opera and what is the plan for the Royal Welsh College of Music and Drama junior talent pathway and its aligned external review? I await that response. Diolch yn fawr.

Diolch yn fawr, Rhianon Passmore, once again for your clear statement of support for our vitally important cultural sector in Wales. When I was holding the portfolio in the summer months, I was very pleased to be able to announce that £5 million, which of course was really important, and that went directly to some of those key funded bodies, but also to the Arts Council of Wales. And now the Minister for Culture, Skills and Social Partnership is addressing the very issues that you have raised. And, of course, it is for the Royal Welsh College of Music and Drama, again, to consider their priorities, but I know that what is forthcoming, as a result of extensive consultation, are the priorities for culture statement and strategy, which, of course, I know the committee is also engaging with as a key plank of their policy development.

Can I please ask the Trefnydd for two statements today, both concerning child hearing issues? Firstly, Trefnydd, I would like to support calls for an oral statement on the reasons why the GCSE in sign language in Wales has been dropped and what proposals the Welsh Government now have to improve the number of sign language users in Wales, because the shortage of British Sign Language users in Wales is having a detrimental impact on the deaf community and their ability to access the same services as everyone else. 

Secondly, Trefnydd, as you may be aware, in England, since 2019, over 1,500 children have had their hearing misdiagnosed, with some even being given the all clear when, in fact, they had significant hearing problems. This has led to just under 500 children suffering moderate or severe harm in their speech and language development. There are, ultimately, concerns about two thirds of the hearing units in England, and I believe that it would be very prudent for the health of the children in Wales that a review of hearing services should take place here so that patients can be recalled if necessary. With this in mind, can I ask for an oral statement on the assessment that the Welsh Government has made or is intending to make of any potential misdiagnosis of hearing loss in Welsh NHS hearing units? Thank you.

Diolch yn fawr. I have answered the question about the suspension of the development of a GCSE in British Sign Language. It is a decision by Qualifications Wales, and I've given the reasons why that has been suspended. And also it is important that Qualifications Wales themselves are monitoring the development of BSL GCSE in England, and that we, importantly, go back to the fact that we are the first country in the UK to include BSL in the curriculum.

Yes, I will also share with the Cabinet Secretary your concerns about whether the misdiagnosis also has to be looked at in terms of the situation in Wales. 

Trefnydd, I'd like an urgent Government statement on any progress made to introduce measures and perhaps even legislation around responsible dog ownership in Wales. I've previously raised this matter in the Senedd on a number of occasions, including with a Member's legislative proposal, in the wake of a number of serious and fatal dog attacks in my region. Yesterday, there was yet another very serious attack in my region, this time in Nantyglo, on a 12-year-old girl by what appeared to be an XL bully-type dog. The injuries are horrific and life changing, but they could have been much worse were it not for the swift action of the girl’s father, who held the dog down until the police arrived. We need a Government statement updating the Senedd on what is happening with regard to promoting responsible dog ownership. I'd also request that the work on this matter is expedited in the interests of keeping our communities and civilians safe. Diolch yn fawr.

Diolch yn fawr, Peredur, and I think it's very important that you've raised this today and, in fact, we have questions to the Deputy First Minister and the Cabinet Secretary tomorrow. It is appalling that we have these tragic incidents that are occurring, because there is so much responsible dog ownership in Wales, isn't there? We know that, and we know of the work of the Dogs Trust and many others to drive that forward. And where we can play a role, we certainly will. And I'm sure that, in questions to the Deputy First Minister tomorrow, he may be able to then say more about ways in which the Welsh Government is responding.

I call for an urgent oral statement from the health Secretary on NHS dental care in north Wales. On 18 September, an angry and disappointed constituent e-mailed after reading on social media that, as of December 2024, the Valley dental practice on Ynys Môn will no longer offer NHS services. Replicating the experience of many constituents who'd contacted me even before this, they had telephoned many dentists on the island but could not find one offering NHS services. The social media post from the Valley dental practice team stated,

'recent changes in NHS contracts and the way we're required to provide treatment have made it impossible to continue offering the standard of care that we believe our NHS patients deserve.'

The health board only notified MSs the following day. It is now two decades since dentists in north Wales warned the then Assembly's North Wales Regional Committee that an NHS dental crisis would result if the Welsh Government did not listen, and we need to know if the Welsh Government will now ask the dental profession what the Welsh Government needs to do in order to start putting things right. I call for an oral statement accordingly.

Thank you very much, Mark Isherwood, and I know that you would welcome the fact that there are 93,000 new NHS patients in north Wales. Nevertheless, it is disappointing when a dentist decides to reduce or end their NHS commitment, and we remember the fact that they're independent, self-employed practitioners. They can choose whether they want to provide NHS treatment or want to provide private care. I think it is really important just to recognise that, for example, £1.5 million-worth of funding has been awarded recently to a practice, including to a practice in Amlwch, and there are further funding awards Betsi Cadwaladr is making later in this year. I think the new academy in north Wales is really important, and that's helping as well in terms of the provision of NHS dentistry in Wales. But I am very pleased to report that the Cabinet Secretary for Health and Social Care is going to do a statement on dentistry across Wales, across the whole picture of where we are, and it will be focusing on where we can intervene, where we can fund, and, indeed, the positive impact of the new dental contract as well.

Trefnydd, can I request a statement from the Cabinet Secretary for Transport and North Wales, outlining the latest position on the Raglan junction of the A40 in my constituency of Monmouth? As you are no doubt aware, there have been many, many accidents over the years, and recorded by Gwent Police, and even the latest statistics as well, which add to that. I would therefore welcome a statement from the Cabinet Secretary outlining the up-to-date position on the safety improvements at the junction, and if the statement could include a commitment to publishing the long-awaited road safety study. Thank you.

Thank you very much, Peter Fox. I will make sure that the Cabinet Secretary for Transport and North Wales responds to that specific enquiry in relation to that Raglan roundabout.

Trefnydd, I'm grateful for your response to my colleague Mark Isherwood's request for a statement a few moments ago, because dental services and access to NHS dentists is important across all of Wales. I would be grateful if, in the statement that the Minister makes on dental services, we could see some inclusion there about how he intends to monitor progress against his ambitions for NHS dental care in Wales. But I am grateful, first of all, for the statement coming forward in due course. Thank you very much.

Diolch yn fawr. I think, Sam, I have said my piece, and we hand over now to the Cabinet Secretary for Health and Social Care to follow that up.

Finally, Samuel Kurtz.

Diolch, Llywydd. Trefnydd, can I call for a statement from the First Minister, following the pretty remarkable news of the Welsh Government's expenditure in America? Some of the eye-watering costs in the US include a food bill for Zou Zou's, an exclusive New York restaurant, which totalled nearly £16,000 for a St David's Day event. And what was on the menu? Salads at $29, lobster kebab at $51, and French fries for $12—far from a celebration of Welsh food and culture on St David's Day. Over £2,300 was also spent in a New York Irish bar called Donnelly's, when there is quite literally a Welsh bar in New York, operated and owned by Welsh people. Could the First Minister outline what checks and balances are there on their spending, what, if any, cost-benefit analysis has been done, and how is this spending helping drive inward investment into Wales or, indeed, strengthening the Welsh diaspora network if key overseas businesses and networks of Welsh descent aren't even involved?

I think it would be really important to get the feedback, and I'm sure the First Minister can provide it, about the impact of those events that were held in New York. You can't underestimate that across the whole world on St David's Day events take place, and I think some of us have been—. I went to one in Dublin last year, where businesses come and celebrate St David's Day. Businesses who are doing business in Wales come to these events—and they are across the world, these events—and praise the investment that they are making in Wales, and they want to celebrate it. [Interruption.] But can I just say that it's important—

I would like to hear the answer from the Trefnydd, so I hope that Members on all sides, including Ministers, will make sure that I can hear the response, please.

I just think you need to—. Instead of digging around, as you seem to, and your staff team seem to want to do, in collaboration with The Daily Telegraph an awful lot of the time, I think we really do need to recognise it, and perhaps I will ask the First Minister to do a statement on St David's Day and the outcome from the events that were held earlier on this year.

I thank the Trefnydd.

Item 3 today is the statement by the Minister for Mental Health and Well-being, and I call on the Minister to make the statement—Sarah Murphy.

Diolch. On Thursday, we celebrate World Mental Health Day, and I would like to take this opportunity to provide the Senedd with an update about our programme of work to improve, protect, and support the mental health and well-being of people throughout Wales.

In line with the First Minister's priorities, I am focused on reducing waiting times for mental health support and treatment. This is very much part of our long-term vision to transform services and to strengthen our approach to improve mental health and well-being. This recognises the wider areas of life and society that can have an impact on our mental health, from housing and employment to money and debt and education. This is reflected in the draft mental health and well-being and suicide and self-harm prevention strategies, which have been co-produced and informed by an extended period of pre-consultation engagement. The consultations closed on 11 June and we are today publishing the consultation reports, which provide a summary of the responses received. More than 370 responses were received to the online consultations. Overall, the responses show that we are focusing on the right areas in the strategies, but they have given us a lot of rich and valuable information that will help to strengthen our approach.

For the mental health and well-being strategy, there is strong support to continue to develop our cross-Government approach to tackle the wider determinants of mental health. I will continue to work with my Cabinet colleagues to do this, but we need to strengthen our approach to ensure that joined-up support from health and social care, as well as the third sector, to provide person-centred and needs-led support.

The key challenges for our NHS services include workforce, digital, data, and the estate, and whilst I expect to see a focus on this in the final strategy, I have asked officials to progress work in these areas now. My ministerial portfolio responsibilities include digital and technology, and if we are to improve services, we must make better use of digital and data. I am determined to drive this change.

Our draft suicide and self-harm prevention strategy sets out our ambition to reduce rates of suicides, and this is also a key priority for me. The consultation responses have highlighted we need to do more to identify and address factors and circumstances that increase the risk of suicide, to maximise opportunities for prevention. Through the continued development of our real-time suspected suicide surveillance, and investment in the national suicide and self-harm prevention team in the NHS executive, we have the foundations to really drive these changes. The feedback was also clear that self-harm needed greater prominence in the final strategy.

As well as enhancing the availability of support, it is vital we increase awareness, understanding and compassion within services and society, so people feel confident to reach out without fear of stigma and judgment. Across both strategies, it is clear we need to do more to prevent, reduce and provide better support and treatment for substance use, including removing barriers for those with co-occurring mental health conditions. There is a clear link with both mental health and suicide prevention, and this will be a key area of focus for me going forward. There was also strong support for taking a trauma-informed approach, and we will continue to engage with stakeholders, with services, and users, as we finalise the two strategies, with a focus on co-production and the voice of service users. I want to publish these two major strategies and delivery plans early next year, and these will shape the direction of travel for the next decade.

Dirprwy Lywydd, I’d also like to update Members about the ‘111 press 2’ service. This encapsulates the 'no wrong door' approach to mental health care in Wales and provides 24/7 support for people with urgent mental health needs. I have visited a number of services since being appointed to this ministerial role, including ‘111 press 2’, and I have seen first-hand the compassionate approach from our dedicated mental health staff. The Royal College of Psychiatrists has just completed a review of the first year of the implementation. More than 100,000 calls—and I believe we’re up to 120,000 today—were received in the first 12 months, and 99 per cent of those calls during the review period led to a reduction in distress, with individuals being provided with a compassionate and timely response.

The review makes recommendations to sustain and further develop ‘111 press 2’ and our aim is to link front-door services like our crisis sanctuaries and primary care mental health services to provide seamless support. Crucially, this review gives assurances that we are on the right path, but it also recognises that demand and need for services are not static; the royal college has suggested further iterative reviews as the service continues to develop, and ‘111 press 2’ is a good example of service transformation and innovation, which is having a genuine and meaningful impact on the people of Wales.

The theme of this World Mental Health Day is the importance of supporting mental health in the workplace, with clear benefits for individuals, organisations and communities. Good, meaningful work is good for our mental health and well-being, and it is therefore important that we do all we can to help people retain or return to work. Our in-work support service provides support to help people with mental or physical health conditions to remain in work, and it also helps those on a sickness absence to return to their workplace more quickly. Between April 2023 and June 2024, the service supported more than 3,500 people, most of whom were at risk of becoming absent from work due to their health condition. The service also supports businesses to help create healthier workplaces by making improvements in health and well-being practices and policies. This is complemented by our Healthy Working Wales programme delivered by Public Health Wales.

We are helping people recovering from mental health and/or substance use who are out of work through our out-of-work peer mentoring service. The service has helped people to search for work and gain qualifications, with 430 people being helped into work. We are also jointly funding two individual placement and support projects with the UK Government, which are being delivered by Hywel Dda and Cardiff and Vale university health boards. These will provide integrated health and employment support to more than 1,300 people with physical or mental health disabilities to help them into or towards work by March 2026.

Dirprwy Lywydd, I will close by reminding us all that we have a responsibility to support better mental health and well-being in Wales. That could be by taking steps to improve our own mental health or by improving our understanding of how we can support others who are in distress. We all have a role to play. Diolch.

Thank you very much for your statement this afternoon, Minister. Firstly, I'd like to say that I'm pleased to be responding to this statement today, and it's a pleasure to be speaking as a newly established ambassador of Bipolar UK. It has been an honour to take up that role this week alongside it being the same week as World Mental Health Day. As you rightly say, Minister, this year's theme for World Mental Health Day is workplace mental health. With 15 per cent of UK workers estimated to have an existing mental health condition, it is an underdiscussed issue, and the fifth most common reason for sickness absence in 2022 was mental health. This is increasing, with many in the private sector saying that the younger intake of staff often take days off due to their mental health.

I welcome the Minister's statement today, which has been long awaited. I welcome a new mental health and well-being strategy and delivery plan, which is long overdue. It's disappointing, firstly, that this is the first mental health statement we've received since Mark Drakeford was First Minister. But I'm pleased it's before the Senedd today nonetheless. With this new strategy, we need more assurances that this strategy will be implemented, and we need assurances that there will be a focus on delivery.

With previous mental health strategies, we've not seen the results we should have seen, with repeated failures in delivery. There has also, rightfully, been more of a focus on well-being in recent years, but there are concerns that this will come at the expense of the quality of care for those with serious mental illness. There should also be a focus on suicide, which is higher in Wales than other parts of the UK, and around three quarters of deaths by suicide are men, particularly those aged between 25 and 44. Suicide is also more prevalent in the most deprived areas, with suicide occurring at twice the rate in deprived areas compared to the least deprived areas.

Farmers are also disproportionately affected by poor mental health, which has been raised many times by my colleague James Evans, with 95 per cent of UK farmers under the age of 40 ranking poor mental health as one of the biggest hidden problems facing farmers today, as highlighted by the Farm Safety Foundation. According to Office for National Statistics data, sadly, 36 suicides were registered in England and Wales by those in the farming and agricultural industry in 2021. It's important, therefore, that the strategy includes a targeted approach towards suicide to identify sections of the population that are more at risk and to ensure resources are pooled in those areas.

We also hear a lot about preventative medicine, and we also need a preventative approach to mental health. This means equipping teachers and those who work with young people, particularly, to recognise the signs of self-harm and find the appropriate help. Families who have lost loved ones to suicide often say that the help arrives once it's too late, and they struggle to access the help needed at an appropriate time. So, this must be a priority for the strategy. I'm keen to understand how the Welsh Government will facilitate relationships between the different bodies to ensure this works.

Overall, the NHS Confederation also agree that the strategy is taking positive steps towards a population approach to improving mental health and well-being outcomes as well as in reducing inequalities in experiences and outcomes. They've highlighted, as I have mentioned, that deprivation must be considered in more detail in the strategy and there must be a holistic approach that recognises the effect that deprivation has on mental health.

I'm pleased to hear the Minister speak about the importance of waiting times, as well, which, of course, have been raised many times in this Chamber. But, overall, I'd like to hear how the Minister plans to ensure that the strategy will succeed where others have failed and how the Welsh Government will ensure that the strategy is delivered with tangible results. I'd like to know how preventative mental health services and education are being improved and how the Welsh Government will ensure that the strategy will involve tailoring services to sections of Welsh society that are most affected. Thank you very much.

Thank you very much, Gareth. I think, honestly, your contribution just demonstrates how wide of a subject this is. I have got, as you can probably see, around me preparation to cover all of the things that you've touched on. But it is because there's so much incorporated into it.

I was hoping that I would get the opportunity, as well, to thank you in the Chamber for becoming an ambassador for Bipolar UK. I was very moved and very proud, as well, and pleased to see you speaking so openly in sharing your lived experience. I think it's inspiring; I think it makes a difference. And I completely agree with you that the waiting times to be diagnosed for bipolar are too long here and in England, and something must be done about it, and that will be part of the mental health strategy. I would very much welcome a meeting with you to discuss this more—honestly, it would truly help, I think.

I just wanted to say, though, that my colleague Jayne Bryant is in the Chamber and she did give a statement in May, so I assure you that we haven't left it that long. So, to be fair to the Cabinet Secretary, there was definitely a statement in May; I remember it.

But I also wanted to touch on, as well, what you were saying about mental health and well-being. I will say that, being in this ministerial role, language is so important. It is important anyway, but I feel more so with this portfolio that language can mean different things and carry different stigmas and triggers for different people. I don't want people to think that, by incorporating well-being into it, that's somehow taking it less seriously—it's mental health and well-being. And actually, I had so much feedback that people didn't want it to just be under mental health, they wanted it to have that well-being aspect to it, as well. So, I take on board what you're saying, but there are nuances here that I'm always trying to address.

I will talk specifically about what you raised about the farming community, because it has been raised by many colleagues. I am very aware that farming and agriculture workers face unique pressures, including long working hours, increased threats of physical injury and financial concerns, and it is really important that they get that special tailored service that comes up through their own communities. I actually went to the Royal Welsh Show this year, which was fantastic, and I got to be there when the Samaritans launched their Our Farming, Our Future project, which had a lot of young people, as well, which I thought was really positive—young farmers coming through and talking. I learnt a lot, as well, just about the different needs of that community, and I think it's so important that they get to say what they want. The Welsh Government has previously awarded the DPJ Foundation more than £65,000 to improve the provision of bereavement support to the agriculture community—again, for many of the reasons that you touched upon.

In terms of the preventative work, a lot of it comes back to the statement that I gave today about a healthy working Wales, a healthier Wales for everybody. I think that what you're doing in reducing stigma and raising awareness is a huge part of that. I think what I'm also hearing from a lot of people is that it's about follow-up, and this is from every aspect of mental health; whenever you come into contact with mental health support, whether you ring '111 press 2' or however it is, people then need to have that check-in on them again afterwards. They need to be able to come back for help if they need it. So, just to assure you that that's something that I'm very conscious of and I'm hoping to progress in the future, as well. I hope I've covered everything, but if not, let's meet and I will answer all of your other questions, Gareth. Diolch.

I'd like to thank the Minister for the statement, and welcome her to her new role. Best of luck with your new role. I want to start my contribution, if I may, by thanking all of the charities and the third sector organisations that do such valuable work in this area. Could I also thank Gareth Davies for his courage in speaking out about his own personal experiences? It was a very brave step on his part, and I want to extend our thanks to him and also to his wife and his children and loved ones who have been such a great support to him. The role of family and friends is so important, of course, when dealing with mental health conditions.

Finally, we're starting to see the harmful stigmas being challenged, and a greater willingness to discuss mental health issues in an open atmosphere. But there is a great deal more to be done to ensure that the provision of mental health services is proportionate to the needs of our population. And what more damning indictment of this than the fact that this year's Mental Health Awareness Week takes place immediately after the decision to close the minor injuries unit at Prince Philip Hospital in Llanelli during the evening hours? This, as the chief executive officer of Mind in Llanelli has correctly identified, will have immediate and harmful implications in terms of public access to emergency teams and mental health support at a time of day when mental health issues can be particularly challenging.

This, of course, is only a reflection of wider flaws in the system. The number of mental health beds has decreased from over 2,000 in 2010 to 1,271 this year, which is the lowest ever level of capacity; likewise the workforce, with only 7.2 mental health consultant nurses in Wales at the moment—the lowest number ever. As the RCN says, simply put, the size of the mental health workforce is inadequate for the demands there.

Part of the problem, and I'm tired of having to repeat this, is the lack of specific data on staffing levels in the mental health sector. This information is vital in order to ensure a good service in the right places at the right time, and I was very pleased to hear the Minister emphasise the importance of the need for accurate data in her statement. So, I would like an update from the Minister in her response, please, about how the Government wants to address this very familiar problem. 

There are legislative gaps to be considered in this context as well. While the Nurse Staffing Levels (Wales) Act 2016 has been a success on the whole in terms of increasing the workforce, section 25B, as it's known, has not yet been extended to include mental health nurses. So, could I ask for an update from the Minister regarding a timetable for when this change will be implemented?

In addition to this, there is a need to consider strengthening the legislative framework around the use of what's called 'restrictive practice' in mental health wards, a practice that experts in the field have emphasised should only be used as the very last resort. Once again, the data on this from a Welsh perspective are extremely unsatisfactory, but as the Government has already developed guidelines in order to reduce the use of restrictive practice as far as possible, I wonder whether the Minister could confirm whether there is any intention to put these guidelines on a statutory basis. 

The situation in terms of service provision is particularly fragile in respect of children and young people, who experience waiting times for treatment that are, on average, far longer than those for adults. Recent statistics show that just over half of the therapeutic interventions for people under 18 were started within 28 days of a local mental health assessment, compared to over three quarters for people over 18. In addition to this, 61 per cent of staff in the health sector in Wales have no training in the area of infant mental health. I wonder whether the Minister could explain how the Government will improve this situation.

Now, we have spoken several times about the need to integrate the health and care service. But it seems that we are seeing these sectors moving further apart in the area of mental health. In fact, four of the local authorities in north Wales have withdrawn their mental health workforce from community mental health teams. Is the Minister aware of this and is she looking into it, and how will she do so in order to find a solution to this problem?

And one last point: I fear that resources are often directed to people in crisis. We heard several references to people in crisis in the statement, and, of course, this is entirely necessary. But the structures are not in place to ensure that people do not reach the point of crisis in the first place. For example, in cases of suicide, families often say that the support for them is excellent in their time of mourning, but that that support is needed long before that. So, what action is the Minister going to take to ensure that people who are in relapse, or need that support more quickly, receive that support? And one final point, if I may—[Interruption.] Well, I'll finish there, then. Thank you very much.

Thank you very, very much, and these are all very serious and good questions, honestly, so I appreciate it. You started off by mentioning the third sector, and I'd also like to take this opportunity to thank the third sector hugely, as we wouldn't be able to provide the service and support that we do without them. Just to assure you as well that this mental health strategy is very much being done in collaboration with them. I always say when I meet with the charities and organisations that they are really the ones who can see what's happening on the ground, and help us be the voice and, also, tailor that support and service.

When it comes to what was discussed by Mind Cymru and the closing of that service, again, I do apologise for doing this, but it would not be within my remit and would not be appropriate for me to comment on at this point. However, when it comes to ensuring that everybody has that support and that crisis support, this is something that I will be paying very, very close attention to.

When it comes to follow-up on mental health work and the data, and where we have the mental health workforce, again this is something that I can certainly follow up with you on. We are aware, though, that, of course, across the board at the moment we're having issues with recruitment and retention, and what I would say is that a lot of that has been coming back to me from the workforce as just not having necessarily that resilience in-built to the system, and described as like a caring fatigue, which I can completely understand. I think there's sometimes a sense of shame from healthcare workers that they feel that, but it is really important that they have that mental health support as well. So, I did want to highlight, because I think it is a wonderful programme, the Canopi programme, which is there now to provide that mental health support directly to healthcare workers and social care workers, and how much of a difference that is making. I have the data on that, which is that data for 2023 and 2024 show that 60 per cent of clients remained in work throughout their therapy sessions. So, that one-to-one counselling is making a huge difference.

In terms of the legislative gap, I remember meeting with the Royal College of Nursing before I came into this post as well to discuss that minimum requirement. Obviously, that has now been through the process of discussion. It would not be for me to say necessarily whether that would be picked up again, but I do remember the arguments for it, and I think that that engagement has to continue. I don't think we should be stopping that discussion. [Interruption.] Yes, of course; absolutely. I'd be more than happy to have a meeting on that and continue discussing that.

I would like to point as well, though, to some of the things that you’ve touched on. We do have James Evans in the Chamber today, and James is obviously still working on his Member's Bill, and some of the things that you've touched on there, especially when it's about people relapsing, would very much kind of come under the work that James has been doing, and I am very much looking forward to seeing the next draft of what he's going to bring forward.

Also, in terms of restrictive practice, this is something that I'm very concerned about. Whenever, actually, I go and visit units, and in-patient units, it's the No. 1 thing that I always bring up and I always ask about, and I have read through the Healthcare Inspectorate Wales reports as well into it. I am quite confident now, having discussed it—especially, I went up to Betsi Cadwaladr health board and discussed it there—there has now been a very good programme with funding rolled out. Betsi are actually leading on this, and it is going to be rolled out to other health boards as well, just to—no, I'm not going to say that—just to ensure that people understand when and where it is appropriate. Again, I wouldn't be looking at the moment at legislation to enforce that, because I think that it's making improvements. However, again, this would be something I'd be open to having a conversation about. I do take it very seriously.

In terms of waiting times, the NHS delivery executive performance and assurance team have performance trajectories from all health boards, and progress is being monitored through monthly performance meetings with the NHS Executive. And we have ensured that mental health-related improvements are also included in the accountability letters to health boards as part of their integrated medium-term plans and annual plans. Officials will routinely monitor and challenge progress through the individual health boards. And in terms of young people specifically, most young people referred to mental health services will be seen within four weeks, and all health boards have plans in place to reduce those waiting times even further. We continue to invest in a range of support to reduce the need for more specialist services, like online access and mental health support, and the support that we offer in schools.

When it comes to mental health from the—. You talked about the mental health in the community teams, the four community teams. That is something that I will pick up with my colleague as well, as it crosses over between both of our portfolios. Again, I'm very happy to write to you about that with an update. And then you were talking about bereavement services as well. I was really pleased—about a month ago now I went and visited the Jac Lewis Foundation that is based in Swansea, which came up through Ammanford. We have now invested of hundreds of thousands of pounds into that service, and it means that if you are bereaved through suicide you can call them up immediately whenever you want to, and you will get through to somebody, and they will put together a support plan for you. They are actually helping children as young as four by doing play therapy, music therapy with them. They will see you for free for as long as you possibly need. I talked to many parents there who had lost their children, and they said what a tremendous difference this has made to them. And this is all Wales-wide, anybody from across Wales, and they will make sure that they can see you in a place close to your home.

Again, I hope that I've answered all of your questions, but I would always appreciate having a follow-up conversation with you anyway, and I will write to you with anything else that I haven't been able to reply to you on. Diolch. 

Thank you for the updates— 

—ahead of World Mental Health Day, with a focus on workplace mental health. I think we all need to be more mindful, whether that's in our own workplaces or within this place as well. I recently hosted with my colleague sat next to you there my annual 'democracy in action day' in my constituency, bringing together young people from secondary schools right across Flintshire. As part of that, they had a chance to grill myself and Jack Sargeant, but also to come up with their own manifestos for the issues that they think they face but, actually, more importantly, the solutions they want to see.

Support for mental health was something that was raised by a number of the groups there. Ysgol Maes Garmon said that mental health in schools needed more support and resources, particularly for additional learning needs, neurodiverse pupils, especially while they wait for assessment. They also said there needed to be more awareness of where to find that support and what is available for mental health. Flint High School said schools needed more trained counsellors, or teachers supported to do that role with them, to help young people, which might also help address some of those challenging waiting lists waiting for child and adolescent mental health services. 

So, how would you respond to these young people, and what assurances can you give them that action is being taken, but further action is coming down the line as well?  

Absolutely, and thank you, Hannah Blythyn, for that question, and I hope that the students are watching today, because I think it's so important for them to see that exactly what they brought to you is now coming into the Chamber and they're getting that direct answer from the Government. I also wanted to say that since coming into this role, I've actually gone back and had a look at the Senedd Youth Parliament's 'Young Minds Matter' report, because, again, it's a number of times now that they've really brought up mental health, because, again, they represent the young people of Wales and that's what's coming through. They said that they found that 65 per cent of young people were struggling once every fortnight, but that only 23 per cent had actually reached out for that support. And they said that the top three things that they were finding were impacting them was the schoolwork and exams, the relationships with friends and family, and then being targeted and trolled on social media. So, I think that there's so much commonality here across Wales that's coming through.

I would like to assure the students and young people out there that we have made available over £13.6 million in the current year to support the implementation of that whole-school framework, and that funding includes the continuation of support for framework implementation co-ordinators to work with schools and partners, supporting them to assess and address their well-being needs. We've also developed a well-being professional learning package for schools, so that all schools can be assured that they are dealing with issues with compassion and being trauma informed, and are also undertaking relevant research in the creation of specific resources in terms of that.

I also wanted to say that we've extended and improved the current school counselling service, which deals with about 12,500 children and young people per year. And we're also developing a range of resources for schools, including professional learning resources for students in initial teaching training. So, all this awareness, really, and reducing that stigma, and that no-wrong-door and 'A Healthier Wales'—all of these, basically, are coming together so that young people in school, with many different stresses, challenges and transition periods that they're going through in that time, are really understood and listened to. 

But I would come back to what I said: 65 per cent in the survey for the Senedd Youth Parliament said that they were struggling, but only 23 per cent had reached out for support, and that's the thing that really worries me there. I would say to any young person listening or watching: please reach out if you are struggling. There are many of us in this room who would attest to that. Please, please reach out, and I hope that that's what comes through very much in this week of World Mental Health Day. Diolch. 

I'd like to thank you, Minister, for mentioning my mental health Bill; I won't be talking about that today. Another issue that I think is really, really important is body dysmorphia, and the amount of young people across Wales who are suffering with body dysmorphia and the amount of false images that we're seeing across social media platforms, whether that's Facebook, Instagram and TikTok. You've got young girls now asking for more and more cosmetic surgery to alter their image. You've got young men going to gyms that is damaging their development, all in this pursuit of looking perfect—whatever perfect is supposed to look like. 

We need to address this very, very quickly. There was a Bill going through Westminster that was about digitally altered images—I know that isn't in your portfolio—but what I'm interested to learn is: what is the Welsh Government doing, Minister, to help people with body dysmorphia to try and put strategies in place and support the third sector as well, who can help our young people across Wales? Because, if we don't get on top of this issue, we're going to have more and more young people altering their appearance for cosmetic reasons and under the knife at a young age, which is going to damage their mental health for years and years to come. It's a huge issue, and I'd love to know what the Welsh Government is doing to address this very real problem in our young people across Wales.

Absolutely. Thank you, James Evans. I think it touches on what I said to Hannah Blythyn in my previous response, that that is one of the key stressors for young people in impacting their mental health and well-being, is that kind of—. It is the bullying and the targeting online, but it's also just the constantly being targeted by companies that do not care about their mental health or well-being. You did talk about the Bills that were going through, or getting ready to go through, in Westminster. I will absolutely speak to my counterparts in Westminster to see where we are with those, because I think there was a lot of good work in there, and a lot of clinicians and third sector had actually input into them.

I would say as well that I think it's really important, and I think that the Welsh Government has demonstrated this, that, when we're talking about 'Healthy Weight: Healthy Wales', we're also very cautious about what we're putting out there as well in terms of the messaging. I think we've had a number of debates over the last few years where it's been about ensuring that we're listening to everybody's voice and not sometimes just the loudest voice. I also think that, when it comes to body dysmorphia, there's a cross-over with ARFID, which is something that I know that you and I are both very aware of. I wanted to say that there is now a programme that's being looked at for Aneurin Bevan, who are doing a pilot of this, which I think is really important.

So, we are trying to really be more open to the different pressures that people are having and the different—. Because it wasn't always like that—I don't think people understood. So, specifically in terms of body dysmorphia, I do think that it's about the messages that are coming through in school and the programmes that we have. I think it's about ensuring that, when we have the in-reach in CAMHS, the people who are providing that support are very aware of it. I think, in terms of the online and the digital and the targeting, that is monolithic, and I think that probably will require legislation, and I think that will require something at UK level. So, I will always ensure that it's at the forefront of my mind.

I guess as well, really—. I'm on social media quite a bit, and I see all of these, and you can get sucked into using those—. I know people use the Facetune apps, and then it's very hard to look at your own face again, when you've seen it with filters all the time. But what I would say as well is that I really appreciate people who speak out about when they've had some of these procedures and they've gone very wrong. I'm seeing a lot of that now as well, where people are going abroad and they're actually really regretting it afterwards. I think that that's becoming more prevalent, and that's probably a lot more of what we need to see as well. So, thank you.

Something I've spoken about before is how I feel there is a lost generation when it comes to mental health. And I would say that my generation is that lost generation. We have been given the language to address mental health, we've been told, 'You need to talk out, you need to express your emotions', but I don't think we've been given the tools to do that. We've been brought up by a generation, of course, that didn't understand mental health, and that has had a knock-on effect, a bit of a cultural hangover. So, I'd be really interested to understand how the Minister is looking at this particular subject and how she would look to address it. It's something I feel very strongly about, especially after the amount of young male suicides that we've had, not just in our region, but actually in the area that we both represent. Rugby clubs are doing a lot of good work around this, but, of course, we need to do a lot more.

And just very briefly, in the time that I have, how is the Government looking at the effects on mental health of those living with long-term health conditions, their families and carers? As Chair of the cross-party group on dementia, we've received a lot of evidence lately around the effects of dementia on mental health, especially in light now of the really groundbreaking work that's happening to potentially provide a vaccine for dementia, and many families feeling like their loved one has missed out on what could have potentially been a life-altering vaccine.

Absolutely. Thank you so much, Luke Fletcher. I think we're sort of of the same generation—do we fall under 'millennial' still? I think so. [Interruption.] [Laughter.] But I would say, whenever I go into schools now and I speak with young people, I always say that, actually, I think it was very much the younger generation who, I would argue, created the language. The language didn't really even exist. It was because of our younger generations who started talking about things like anxiety, about feeing low, about feeling triggered, about feeling uncomfortable. I would say that we have so much to thank the younger generation for, as being really brave and tenacious in very much pushing that forward. As a result of that, they’ve said, ‘Well, look, what we were offering before wasn’t right, wasn’t enough, and wasn’t what we needed.’

When we talk about being trauma informed, I would argue that, if you talk to a lot of people who train in that and talk about it, they would say it is, as you described, a generational trauma in many ways. There have been previous generations who have very much been told never to speak about anything. So, when we talk about raising them awareness and reducing stigma, I don’t think we can underestimate what a huge difference that means and makes, and even people, like I’ve said before, speaking in this Chamber, and just the amount of young people who speak out.

So, what I would say about the mental health strategy and the suicide and self-harm prevention strategies is that that has absolutely been incorporated. There are some people who’ve said that we shouldn’t have an all-ages strategy, but we have decided to make it an all-ages strategy, because otherwise we get into that territory where people are saying you have that cut-off point, and I hate that transition cut-off point and that sorting the switch. So, both these policies are for children and adults all to be incorporated, and all have been consulted on this as well, so that they can say, ‘This is what we need and this is what we want.’

When it comes to dementia, I think a lot of people see that news that maybe there’s some sort of a cure, can we call it that, something coming through, though, that would really improve the lives of people who are diagnosed with dementia. We have a new dementia action plan, actually, in the works. I’m not a bit fan of doing plans and strategies for the sake of them, it is about getting things done and implementation, but actually the reason why we’re going to redo it, again co-produced, is because the dementia landscape has changed so drastically, even in the last few years. A key part of this, as you said, is the carers. I know many people who care for people with dementia and how they absolutely have to have—you know, very complex needs—that crucial support. So, this is something now that we’ll get done as quickly as we possibly can that will be incorporated into that. Thank you.

I was very pleased last week to visit the 19 Hills health and well-being centre, which is being built in Ringland in Newport East, an area with a lot of health inequalities, and very pleased to see what will be the mental health suite there, which will have one-to-one, group and family counselling sessions, and be part of that bringing together of physical and mental health in the community, with a strong social aspect as well. I hope that rounded, holistic approach will really do something to better treat the mental health issues that exist in those communities. I just wonder whether you think—Welsh Government has funded this; I’m sure Welsh Government sees this as a good model, but—whether we might have more of these health centres as we go forward in our community, pulling services out of the hospitals and the acute sector into the community, where the community can rally round and, hopefully, provide that social support that goes with the physical and mental elements.

Absolutely. Thank you so much, John Griffiths, for that question. Yes, this is the model that has been demonstrated to work, because, as you said, it's working with the family. I think that I touched on in my statement that there are so many external pressures for families now that would impact anybody’s mental well-being—housing and debt and concerns and work and worry and, like I said, transitions in people’s lives. So, that family and holistic and wraparound is what seems to work best for most people.

I think you’re right as well, having it in your community, it comes back to everything we’ve been saying today about reducing that stigma and that shame, so that people can really ask for the help that they need when they need it and get it and go on to live happier, healthier lives, ultimately. So, I’m really pleased to hear about that.

This is very much—. As we’ve heard today, there’s a lot more to do, and we’re committed to doing it in Welsh Government, but there’s also a tremendous amount of good out there. There is a tremendous amount of amazing people who are working within the health service and the mental health service and saying, ‘This is what we think works, please support it, please fund this’, and we’re listening, we’re absolutely listening and doing that. So, yes, I think that what you’re describing sounds very positive, and I would imagine and hope that within that service they are offering those other touch points with other support services, where we can start seeing that crossworking, as we're intending to do across our whole Welsh Government. 

And, finally, Jenny Rathbone. 

Thank you. On Thursday, I'm going to be sponsoring the Adferiad event in the Senedd, where we're going to talk about their report, 'Let's Get Physical', looking at the physical health of people with enduring mental health issues.

So, thank you very much for your statement. I very much like the fact that you're championing a trauma-informed approach, as well as co-production of services with users, because it's crucial that we don't just tell people; we actually have to find out what they need and want. I'm interested in your '111 press 2' service and the fact that the Royal College of Psychiatrists have done a review of it. I'm a bit concerned by constituents who say that, when they're in crisis, ringing this '111 press 2' service isn't very helpful, because they're being asked, 'What's your name? What's your address?' and all this other basic data, and they're actually in crisis, they need to see somebody. So, I'm very supportive of the open access service for young people aged 11 to 18 in the city centre of Cardiff, run by Platfform—really, really important to enable young people to go there without their friends at school knowing about it. But there are clearly more services needed for adults as well, and I will be visiting one of the primary care—

You need to ask the question now, please. 

—crisis centres now. But I'd really like to know how we have better crisis intervention services to prevent people going into in-patient care. 

Thank you very much for that question. I will be attending that event that you are sponsoring later this week about linking physical health and well-being to mental health and well-being, which has been proven and we're very much trying to support.

I think that the '111 press 2'—. It's been around about a year; it's an all-Wales service. It was on the BBC The One Show. They actually showed the team who are up in Betsi Cadwaladr, up in the Heddfan unit, who I actually visited recently, and actually just saw them all sitting in that room answering the phone to people. And, you know, we're learning as we go. It's interesting as well that you said about—. I do understand when people are in crisis, and you call up and they're asking some details, but I am very much assured that they are basic details. And the reason why I say that is because we've talked today a lot about wanting data so that we can have more information, and, actually, one of the things that we've had fed back is that, when people are in crisis, they don't want to be asked a long list, so it should be a very short list. And I've touched on this as well today about the need for that follow-up. What we're getting through now as feedback, though, is that, when people are in that crisis and they get signposted, and they get that kind of immediate help and support, it's about then finding a way for them to have maybe a follow-up call, and then we would gather a little bit more information about them. It will help us improve the service. So, that's where I'm seeing us going with the '111 press 2'. 

And then, just to say, in terms of visiting the crisis centres, I'm doing that myself as well, going around Wales doing that, learning a lot, asking a lot of the questions that you pose to me in the Chamber. I would say that I met with Lads & Dads, who are a community group across south Wales, this week, and they are very, very passionate about prevention. I would say that we have a way of stopping people from even getting to that crisis point and that's where we need to be. So, we are—. Of course, the '111 press 2' does help with the crisis part of it, but we're also really, through the mental health strategy—and, literally, it's called the suicide and self-harm prevention strategy—hoping that we can stop people from even getting to that point of crisis. And I think that those third sector groups who are on the ground are going to be really, really crucial to this. 

Thank you, Minister. 

Before we move on to the next item, Gareth Davies has asked for a point of order. 

Diolch, Deputy Llywydd. In my remarks responding to the Minister's statement, I made a simple oversight in saying that we hadn't received a statement since Mark Drakeford was First Minister. I'm pleased you've corrected me in your response to say that we received a statement from Jayne Bryant in May. It was a simple oversight, and I know how passionate Jayne was when she held the role, so I just wanted to put that on the record, and, hopefully, that can be reflected on the public record. Thank you very much. 

I don't think it's a point of order, but I do accept the fact that the Member has recognised his error and has corrected the record to that purpose. 

Item 4 is a statement by the Cabinet Secretary for Economy, Energy and Planning on economic growth. I call on the Cabinet Secretary, Rebecca Evans. 

Thank you. I'm pleased to update the Senedd on the progress being made to deliver economic growth. I am delighted to take up the economy portfolio, which together with planning and energy provides a unique opportunity to deliver the First Minister’s priority area of green jobs and growth. In recent years the economy in Wales has faced significant challenges ranging from Brexit to COVID, compounded by a decade of austerity, which led to low investment and a squeeze on public spending. This has impacted growth and had far-reaching consequences for household incomes. But despite these challenges, the overall economic environment continues to gradually improve, and we are seeing signs of growth, which we must facilitate and maximise.

Wales is leading in areas such as advanced manufacturing in aerospace and food, through to the design, development and commercialisation of semiconductors and their usages, which are integral to the net-zero economy. We have significant opportunities in areas including renewable energy generation to crowd in further investment, whilst at the same time tackling the climate and nature emergencies. This can only be achieved in partnership with business, academia, regions, unions, local authorities, private sector investors and the UK Government. And together, Wales is open for business. 

Our economic mission and the four national priority areas complement the direction that is being developed by the UK Government. We share the UK Government’s commitment to focus on growth built on stability, investment and reform. The tone and the willingness of the UK Government to work in partnership is a world away from the previous administration. We are suddenly having early, credible and collaborative discussions, which will shape how we deliver against our economic priorities. This includes a strengthened and open relationship with the Wales Office and the Department for Business and Trade.

In these discussions we have been able to jointly consider how to support Tata and utilise levers across both Governments, for example. We have been around the table on areas such as the wealth fund and the development of inter-ministerial groups to focus on economic growth. We have begun to share ideas and intelligence around a new industrial strategy, a new trade strategy and about the employment rights Bill, which will have a transformative impact in making work fairer, safer and more secure for all workers. I will update the Senedd as this work progresses and ramps up over the coming months.

We will ensure a pro-business and pro-worker environment, with a competition, planning and regulatory framework that supports innovation, research, investment and high-quality jobs. Procurement and trade policy will be aligned with our priorities, working in tandem with the UK Government to accelerate opportunities and to increase the international reputation of Wales. 

Entrepreneurship, innovation and productivity are central missions that we need to achieve across Government and foster in the wider economy. Our Business Wales and Development Bank of Wales support business growth in all parts of Wales. Wales has seen a record-breaking increase in entrepreneurial activity, with new figures showing the highest levels of early-stage business rates on record according to the Global Entrepreneurship Monitor 2023 report. This is an optimistic outlook that we want to build on. 

I will be drawing upon the strength of our regions and delivery in areas such as city deals and free ports. We will work across sectors. I was delighted to speak with the Welsh Retail Consortium last week, delivering upon our retail action plan. We will continue to strengthen our alliances across borders, for example, through the Western Gateway partnership, Marches partnership and the Mersey Dee Alliance.

The capabilities and skills of individuals in Wales are a key driver of economic prosperity and productivity. Working Wales, our national careers gateway, provides individuals with access to thousands of jobs and opportunities and is supported by a strong offer through our national programmes, such as apprenticeships, Jobs Growth Wales+, ReAct+, Communities for Work+, the Flexible Skills programme and the Wales Union Learning Fund. I believe that fair, safe and secure work environments, where workers have a voice, are beneficial for businesses and employees. When workers feel heard and valued, they contribute ideas and innovations that enhance productivity. That's why we encourage businesses to collaborate with trade unions, benefiting businesses, employees and the wider economy. Additionally, our continuing commitment to support employability and skills development is crucial, as it equips workers with the necessary tools to adapt and thrive in a changing labour market.

Planning policy helps to create the conditions in which businesses can invest, extend and adapt. 'Future Wales: The National Plan 2040' and 'Planning Policy Wales' already place significant weight on the need to support economic growth, green jobs and productivity. However, austerity has impacted the planning sector, lengthening the time that is taken to make decisions, increasing uncertainty and business costs. I am determined to address this by ensuring that resources are in place. I'll be consulting on increased planning application fees this autumn, and I will set out proposals to increase the pipeline of planners.

Having a reliable, affordable and green source of energy is becoming increasingly important for our modern economy, with our industries looking to decarbonise their operations, as we attract new industries and as households move to electric vehicles and heat pumps.

In floating offshore wind, we have the opportunity to transform our coastal communities, starting with our ports and expanding throughout the supply chain. Wales is leading the way in public sector delivery, through Trydan Gwyrdd Cymru, Ynni Cymru and Cwmni Egino, developing new, renewable energy investment. As the Prime Minister said, Wales is at the very heart of the mission to supercharge efforts to make Britain a clean energy superpower. We will work with Great British Energy to realise even greater opportunity.

The circular economy is crucial to decarbonisation and economic growth. I want to use Wales’s world-class recycling and global reputation for sustainability to drive job creation. With Wales now being second in the world for recycling, that means that we are world class at capturing high-quality material to go back into our economy. We can provide companies with the resilient, high-quality supply of recycled materials needed to decarbonise. The investment of £45 million made by Jayplas in Swansea and the £1 billion development at Shotton Mill exemplifies the confidence in Wales in this area.

I will listen and act on areas of delivery over the next 18 months. I will be taking forward a previous commitment to establish a range of short-term reviews and to run a series of regional engagement seminars. These will enhance delivery and shape a focused list of priorities. I will also be considering our advisory structures, to ensure that these can be optimised over the coming months.

I look forward to working with Senedd Members to progress economic growth. I want us to be clear sighted about the blockers and the challenges, and to work together to develop solutions to achieve the best outcomes for the people of Wales.

Thank you, Cabinet Secretary, for the statement. The Welsh economy is a rich tapestry of sectors, made up of businesses in agriculture, tourism, manufacturing, technology, construction, energy, and many more, all of which, I believe, have an exciting future, but for the Welsh economy under this Labour Government, times have been hard.

Let's look, though, at the UK first. At the UK level, the new Labour Government has inherited the fastest growing economy in the G7, inflation at 2 per cent and an economy that saw 800 new jobs created every single day since 2010. In contrast, what would an incoming Welsh Conservative Government inherit from Labour here in Wales? The Welsh employment rate: the lowest in the UK. Welsh economic inactivity: the highest in the UK. And, on take-home pay, Welsh earners take home less each month than their counterparts in England, Scotland or Northern Ireland. A truly shocking legacy of Labour and their policies.

Let's look at one of those stats more closely. Under the 14 years of a UK Conservative Government, 800 new jobs were created every single day, and yet in Wales, we have no job targets, with little more than a scattergun approach to economic development. So, can the Cabinet Secretary commit to a job creation target, so that we can get this staggering number of economically inactive people back into work, providing for their families, and ultimately supporting their local economy and community?

We were promised the return of a land of milk and honey with Labour back in Government in London, but the reality is far different. In the month of September alone, UK-focused funds saw a net withdrawal of £666 million. That's less investment, not more; fewer jobs, not more; and a slowing economy, not one that's growing. And according to global fund network Calastone, this evacuation of wealth and investment from the UK is down to the bleak commentary of Starmer and his Government.

So, what is the Welsh Government doing to open the doors for more investment into Wales? How is the Cabinet Secretary creating that clear red water between the pessimism of her UK Labour colleagues, to try and welcome investors into Wales and improve business confidence, because the statistics here are clear? Economic Intelligence Wales's sixth annual report was clear: business confidence is low, with concerns about the domestic economy remaining their No. 1 worry. Furthermore, the report shows that the number of business deaths in Wales continues to be greater than business births, as it has been since 2021. In Q1 of 2024, 2,795 businesses were started, but in the same period over 3,000 were closed. Cabinet Secretary, this managed decline, how much longer are we prepared for it to go on for?

Economic growth and wealth aren't dirty words; they are needed to fund our schools, our hospitals and other public services that we hold dear. If we are to have growth, we need businesses to thrive. So, what are the Welsh Government's plans to improve the environment for businesses in Wales, so that those businesses that do start or already exist have the best chance of survival?

I'm pleased that the Cabinet Secretary gave mention to energy in her statement. Indeed, I think it's good that energy features in her Cabinet portfolio's name, as Wales has such an opportunity in this field. 'Opportunity' is a word that the Cabinet Secretary said when referring to floating offshore wind, an industry that I have long championed since I was elected, along with the free ports in Wales. However, we need to turn opportunity into reality, and planning and consenting is such a barrier to these much-needed developments, so talk of increasing fees when the whole system needs looking at is nothing more than fiddling around the edges.

Finally, on skills, businesses need a skilled workforce, one that meets the demand for things such as construction and infrastructure projects. The reality is that colleges and training providers across Wales are facing a cut of around 24 per cent to their 2024-25 apprenticeship budgets. How are we to have the desired workforce for the future if we can't train our young people? How are we to build homes and infrastructure to meet the challenges of the housing crisis and climate change? Will you speak with your Cabinet colleagues within the Cabinet to talk about funding colleges and training providers properly, so that they can educate more young people in the skills that they need here and that our country needs, so that they can stay within Wales?

Cabinet Secretary, after 25 years, the economic picture of Wales has the fingerprints of Labour's failures all over it. No longer can this Welsh Government hide in the shadows and point the finger of blame elsewhere. With just over 18 months to go until the Senedd elections—

You need to conclude now, please.

—that will give an opportunity for the people of Wales to cast their judgment on whether this Government really is working in their best interests, because we, the Welsh Conservatives, are ready to pick up the mantle to awaken and unshackle the sleeping dragon that is the Welsh economy. Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd.

I'm very grateful to Sam Kurtz for his comments this afternoon, and I will start off, as he did, by recognising the absolutely rich tapestry of sectors that we have here in Wales. Some of them, I think, really do put us on the world stage. I had the opportunity to meet with our Wales marketing team earlier on today, about the important work that they do selling Wales across the globe. And I think that we are very well known for some of our sectors, including tourism—the very, very warm Welsh welcome that people get when they come here—but also some of the very high-skill areas, including advanced manufacturing, automotive and so on, so Wales is definitely on the map. So, I do think that we absolutely have an awful lot to be positive about.

Sam Kurtz did talk about inheritance, of course, and what the new UK Government has inherited is, of course, that budget black hole of £22 billion, which does make the future very difficult. But the new UK Government is absolutely focused on growth, and, in doing so, the Welsh Government will work closely with the new UK Government in the space of developing its industrial strategy. That's going to be really important for us here in Wales in particular given our industrial base. But then also there’s the trade strategy that the UK Government is developing at the moment—that will be something that, again, we're working very closely with the UK Government on. 

I would reject the suggestion that we have a scattergun approach here in Wales. I think you only have to look at the way in which we target our apprenticeship programmes to know that we are doing so in a way that seeks to meet strategic skills needs. We design those programmes to improve productivity, and we prioritise investment in addressing the skills shortages that we know exist, and develop apprenticeships in the particular growth sectors, some of which I mentioned in my speech this afternoon. We also work closely with the regional skills partnerships, of course, but also take into account labour market information and sector reviews carried out by Qualifications Wales, to ensure that we're being targeted and strategic in the kinds of apprenticeships that we deliver.

I also think, though, that the point about language is really important. We absolutely welcome investment here in Wales, and, actually, Wales has one of the best possible ecosystems for business support, growth and inward investment that exists. We have Business Wales, which offers an absolutely fantastic service to businesses here in Wales. And then, of course, there’s the Development Bank of Wales as well, which provides excellent support. It has supported 430 different businesses, benefiting from 491 investments, totalling £125.2 million in the last financial year. That investment generated £50 million of private-sector co-investment, with 4,406 jobs created or safeguarded, exceeding the target, actually, that was set of 3,779. So, I think that is really positive.

I did have the opportunity earlier on today to pass on my personal thanks to Gareth Bullock, who's the outgoing chair of the development bank, for all his sterling and steadfast work over so many years. And we talked about the fact the DBW actually has an incredible amount to offer. They have experts in property finance, they have experts in green products and getting those to the market. So, I think that we are certainly a step ahead in many ways, and we have those opportunities to support businesses. We've seen some really great examples of inward investment, particularly just in the last couple of weeks, in terms of the £1 billion investment at the Shotton Mill site, which I was pleased to visit alongside the Cabinet Secretary for transport recently. So, there is absolutely so much that we should be positive about, and that point about language is really important.

And just to mention floating offshore wind as well. That's a particular area where I think language is really important. We need to demonstrate that the Welsh Government is interested in this agenda and here to support. So, I'm really pleased that I'll be—it's prerecorded—giving a speech at a conference on floating offshore wind that takes place this week in Aberdeen, to investors in that particular sector, and then we'll have a further event here in Wales. So, we are putting ourselves very much front and centre, in the minds of those investors, demonstrating our support for our Welsh ports, our support for our skills agenda and so on. So, the language is really important, and I'm completely in agreement with that.

Thank you, Cabinet Secretary, for your statement. I'm going to start my response to the statement probably in quite a weird way by actually agreeing with something that the Conservative spokesperson said in reference to the economy and the Welsh Government's approach to economic development as being scattergun. You used the example of apprenticeships; well, if you speak to further education colleges, that is exactly what they're telling us—there is a feeling that the approach of the Welsh Government is scattergun. That's why I can't emphasise enough the importance of having an industrial strategy, the importance of having a trade strategy. I very much look forward to seeing what comes onto the table in regard to that industrial strategy and trade strategy and the workers’ rights Bill.

We all know the figures by this point—by this point I'm reciting them in my sleep. What I'm keen to understand, though, is what we are looking at. When it comes to improving economic growth, what are the goals here of the Government? In the statement, there are a number of principles and ambitions, but what are the objectives? What are the markers beyond simply saying that we're going to improve economic growth? There is a risk here that we can file this statement with previous statements in that there are no apparent targets on the way to improving growth. I'll quote from the statement:

'We will ensure a pro-business and pro-worker environment, with a competition, planning and regulatory framework that supports innovation, research, investment, and high-quality jobs.'

Great. We agree in principle. But what we want to see is what does that actually look like—something that we can sink our teeth into to understand the Government perspective and have, then, that honest debate on the direction forward. With respect, this statement doesn't quite allow for that.

I'll pick up on two things. Firstly, economic growth. How will the Government measure that growth? I think we can agree that if we are simply measuring in terms of GDP, that won't necessarily give us a true reflection of whether or not the economy is delivering for our constituents. We touched on this in Hannah's short debate a couple of weeks ago. The global rankings on the economy are very different when we begin to measure economic success differently. So, how will the Government approach measuring that growth?

Secondly, it is welcome to see within this statement recognition that partnership is key in delivering economic growth, but again, what does this look like? If we're talking about purely outsourcing delivery to the market, then we won't see the delivery to the degree we want. Outsourcing only further diminishes the capacity of the Government.

To conclude on this particular point, partnership is all well and good, but if the current system of business support and finance isn't working as it should, again, we'll struggle to see success. So, what thought has the Cabinet Secretary given to looking at the role of Business Wales and DBW and how they operate and factor in? It isn't quite as rosy as the Cabinet Secretary let on in her response to the Conservative spokesperson. There was a report published by the Economy, Trade and Rural Affairs Committee that I think had some very sensible recommendations and a way forward for DBW, so some initial thoughts on how we progress and how we ensure DBW actually reaches its full potential would be very welcome.

I'm very grateful for those questions and comments today. Perhaps I was remiss in not referring to some of the progress that has been made since devolution in my response to the first comments this afternoon, because the long-run trend for the employment rate has actually been really positive, narrowing that gap, and I think that is one of the big success stories of devolution. The latest annual population survey data for the year ending March 2024 shows that Wales's employment rate is now close to an all-time high since records began, and over the last 10 years the employment rate in Wales has increased by over 4 per cent, exceeding the increase seen in the UK as a whole. So, those are the kinds of things that we'd be keen to continue making progress on. But then, also, economic inactivity, I know, is something that is particularly of concern to the Member, as it is to the Welsh Government, but that has seen an overall decrease since devolution as well, with both Wales and the UK following similar trends in that space. So, I think those are two really important metrics, and it's often overlooked, the fact that those have improved since devolution, because of the actions of the Welsh Government.

I think the short-term reviews will be important in having a particular focus on some of the areas. Luke Fletcher challenged us about a scattergun approach, but actually those short-term reviews, looking specifically, for example, at AI, will help us very much in terms of focusing on those particular things. I know there's lots of dry language in the report, talking about the regulatory context and so on, but I think some of that will inevitably be quite dry stuff, because we've got the new procurement legislation, which the UK Government took through, I would say in partnership with the Welsh Government, because that was genuine partnership working, to be fair to the previous UK Government on that. But we've got our own Welsh legislation here as well. So, those, I think, will be really important in being able to support Welsh businesses, particularly SMEs, in allowing them to get a greater share of the money that is available through public procurement here in Wales.

I know we've talked before, Luke Fletcher, about how we measure progress. It's not all about the bottom line. It's actually about that social value as well. The work that Cwmpas is doing, I think, is really important in that particular space. I did have the opportunity to chair the Wales construction forum yesterday, and actually we had a really good discussion on exactly this point, about having a consistent understanding about what social value means, about what community benefits are. I don't think we're quite at that point yet, because I know that there are different parts of the public sector working to different definitions and achieving different things. So, there is definitely some work to do there.

In terms of how we demonstrate partnership working, I think a really good example would be the way in which we undertake the cross-border working. The Offshore Energy Alliance, for example, is a cross-border cluster membership body. That continues to actively promote regional opportunities and support supply-chain development throughout a range of activities, and that’s across north Wales and the north-west. I mentioned earlier on the Mersey Dee Alliance; we’re a founder member of that, and we value the partnership of organisations who are working there to support that cross-border economy.

Colleagues will have seen that very important announcement regarding the cross-border hydrogen carbon capture and storage economy in north Wales through the HyNet announcement that was made very recently. The Welsh Government has been working alongside partners on that for a number of years now and we want to realise the benefits for people here in Wales. Those are just some of the examples of ways in which we can work in partnership across borders, but then of course we do so in partnership throughout the public and private sector here in Wales as well.

Thank you for the statement on economic growth today.

When we talk about growth, and I think I’ve said this in this place before, growth for whom? I think growth needs to be equitable in the way that it’s both generated and governed, and as part of an approach that empowers people rather than exploits them. I think it’s really understandable that we absolutely want to attract inward investment to Wales, but that needs to be very much anchored in our communities. I think for me and for others, too many times, we’ve seen major names come here that often up sticks, sometimes within the same decade. Whilst we naturally want to create as many good jobs as possible, I think it needs to be about the quality of those jobs, not simply the quantity.

Very much for me, public money should not go to companies who do not align their own principles with those of the Welsh Government’s commitment to fair work. I know for the past few years, the economic contact has evolved and has been enhanced. I think for me, when it started, it was probably more style over the substance, but it has been used as a tool now more effectively. But my view is it could and should go further, and any organisation receiving public funds should as a minimum be committed to paying at least the real living wage, offer all of their workers contracted hours should they want them, and allow access to trade unions and promote trade union membership. Cabinet Secretary, can I ask if the Welsh Government will give consideration to these changes, changes that I believe would make the economy work much better for workers and for Wales?

I’m really grateful for those questions. I would just say that the Welsh Government is really supportive of the agenda that is set out in the UK Government’s plan to make work pay, and also of course the proposed employment rights Bill. We have had some really constructive discussions at an official level about the approach to implementation, with a regular rhythm of fortnightly meetings with the UK Government in that space. I think that’s really positive.

The outline I think that Hannah Blythyn has just described was very much part of the discussion that we had at the social partnership council only last week. We have agreed that there’ll be a sub-group that will be set up to look in more detail at the kind of issues that you’ve described in terms of how we maximise the benefit for workers from the support that the Welsh Government gives—that kind of something-for-something approach, which is so important.

I do intend also to give some consideration to the economic contract as well, to ensure that we are maximising the value of that and to ensure that it is up to date and fit for purpose as we move forward as well. But I just want to give that reassurance that that issue is very much something being explored through the social partnership council at the moment.

There was disappointing news from Nidec Drives in Newtown this morning, with the potential of 65 redundancies. This will be an anxious time, of course, for many staff who could be affected. You have said in your statement today, Minister, that Working Wales is the Welsh Government’s careers gateway. So, can you just talk about, practically, how that will happen, how people will be supported in Newtown who may lose their jobs because they are unable to be redeployed to other parts of the business? How will that practically work in terms of matching people up that have particular skills with other businesses in the area?

I’ve also spoken with the interim president of Nidec Drives this afternoon and he tells me that the announcement is due to a downturn in the world market; it’s not because they’re considering moving production from Newtown to other parts of the country or the world. There is the potential to bring back jobs as world market conditions change. You have said in your statement today that you want to ensure a pro-business environment that supports innovation, investment and high-quality jobs. So, what practical steps will the Government and Welsh Government officials now take to work with Nidec to help grow that business? 

I'm very grateful to Russell George for raising that in the Chamber and also grateful for the opportunity that we had to discuss this outside of the Chamber as well today, given the importance and the urgency of this. It is disappointing news and a very uncertain time now for all of the staff involved. I do understand that, at this stage, it's unclear how many jobs there may be that are lost, but I do want to reassure you that officials have been in contact with the company to offer support and we'll work with them on this matter. Officials are also in contact with Working Wales in readiness to respond to any redundancies should they be confirmed, and so the support through Working Wales might involve ReAct support, for example, looking to reskill people if that's appropriate, or to job-match them, as you say, with other vacancies in the area. So, that support would be, I suppose, bespoke for the individual concerned. But thank you for raising it, and I do want to reassure you that officials are very much in contact with the company.

I'd like to raise two points, please. Firstly, economic growth is inexorably determined by the health of the population, and we constantly have amongst the highest rates of economic inactivity in the UK, which is mostly driven by long-term sickness within the workforce. So, does the Cabinet Secretary accept that until the Government truly gets to grips with improving the health outcomes of our nation, the ambitions for economic growth will be inherently constrained?

Secondly, in the statement, it sets out and says that you're talking about an affordable and green source of energy before going on to reference Cwmni Egino developing new renewable energy. Now, Cwmni Egino's remit is nuclear. Can the Cabinet Secretary explain how is nuclear power considered cheap when in Hinkley C, for instance, it's going to be £92.50 MWh and it's costing upwards of £46 billion at the moment? How does she consider nuclear power to be green when it generates emissions like sulphur hexafluoride and how is nuclear considered renewable when it patently isn't?

So, in relation to the first point about health outcomes and the economy, I don't think that anyone would disagree that a healthy population is important in terms of the economy, because all of us, I think, will be too familiar with the statistics in terms of the number of people who are off sick from their work, wherever that might be, and we know that mental health is a particular concern. We had the statement from my colleague earlier on this afternoon about mental health and the kind of support that we might be able to provide to people there. I know musculoskeletal issues are the second-most concerning issue in terms of people needing to take time off work, and, again, those are things that are beyond my portfolio, but which the Welsh Government is aware of and is seeking to address.

The Welsh Government believes that nuclear power should be considered as part of achieving net-zero ambitions to address the climate change emergency and that regions and local communities that do host such sites should benefit from the low-carbon infrastructure and they should secure appropriate benefits as a result of that. So, we do support the use of current licensed sites to help achieve such ambitions. As we've said before, our focus as a Government is very much on that fair transition to a low-carbon economy, ensuring all new power generated in Wales is zero emission. Renewables will be at the forefront of that change, reflecting the recommendations of the independent Climate Change Committee to increase low-carbon generation, but nuclear will play a part on that journey to the zero-emission Wales. So, I appreciate that there are different views on that. Overall policy decisions, of course, are taken by the UK Government in terms of the future role, but I think I've set out the Welsh Government's particular approach to the way forward.

The Welsh economy has performed poorly against the UK average, especially against London and the south-east of England for the whole of the post-war period. We have a smaller proportion of our population working in higher wage sectors such as life sciences, ICT, professional scientific and technical services, arts and entertainment. Until the structure of the Welsh economy is addressed, then growth will continue to lag behind the UK average. Looking at successful European regions, such as Hamburg, Salzburg and southern Ireland, we see more substantial inward investment and, crucially, start-up companies in the ICT, pharmaceuticals and life sciences sectors. The start-up sectors benefit from Government and, again, crucially, university support. Does the Minister agree with me that we need a strategy to increase ICT and life sciences employment via inward investment and growing Welsh firms? How is the Minister going to get the university sector involved? And finally, we need more Westminster Government jobs. The importance of the DVLA to Swansea bay is as well known to the Minister as it is to me, and it has a huge effect. What discussions has the Welsh Government had on relocating central Government functions to Wales?

As yet, I haven't had any discussions with the UK Government in terms of relocating jobs to Wales, but, of course, we stand ready to have those discussions with the UK Government. They would probably be led, potentially, by other colleagues, but I will certainly explore that further, because I know that it's an issue that Mike Hedges raised in the Chamber just last week as well. So, I'm keen, perhaps, to talk to Mike in a bit more detail about his thoughts there, but I absolutely recognise the importance of the DVLA to Swansea; we share many constituents, I think, who work there.

In relation to life sciences, that is a really key area, and, actually, it’s one of the areas for which both I and the health Minister have responsibility. I'm very excited that we are taking a number of businesses to the MedTech conference very shortly, in Germany, to showcase some of the incredible life science businesses that we already have here in Wales. It's an absolutely key sector for us. There are over 319 companies, ranging from SMEs to large blue chips, with an approximate turnover of £2.85 billion, and it is a sector that employs over 13,000 people. The particular strengths that we have here in Wales are in medtech, diagnostics, wound healing, regenerative medicine and neurosciences. So, it is absolutely a key sector for us, and it's a source of well-paid, high-skilled jobs and it does attract a significant amount of foreign direct investment as well.

We have, of course, the export action plan for Wales, and that does have a comprehensive level of support for businesses, particularly in the life sciences sector. And I mentioned the overseas business development visit grant, which a number of businesses are taking advantage of to go to Medica, rather than MediTech—Medica—in Germany, but also to Arab Health in the UAE and Bio in the USA. So, those are very successful events that we've had previously, and I know they've been extended into this year as well.

Cabinet Secretary, I recently had the pleasure of attending the official opening of the new energy transition skills hub at Pembrokeshire College in my constituency. The new hub has been developed by the college and Shell UK and aims to provide people with the skills and knowledge to find employment in renewable and low-carbon energy projects. Now, the hub also has a new state-of-the-art control room, which will enable training in control systems for a number of important energy sectors. So, this training will undoubtedly provide individuals with skills that equip them for the workplace and help ensure that Pembrokeshire remains globally competitive in the renewable and low-carbon energy sectors in the future. It's exactly this sort of collaboration that we should be promoting, and so, Cabinet Secretary, can you tell us what the Welsh Government is doing to develop and support partnerships like this across Wales in order to help develop and ensure that Wales has the skilled workforce that it needs in the future?

I think one of the powers that we have as Welsh Government is that power to bring partners together, so bringing industry and our colleges and universities together and also having those early discussions so that businesses can identify the skills that they might need coming down the track, and we can work, then, to make sure that we have that pipeline of workers available for them to take advantage of those jobs. I was really sorry not to be able to come to the launch in Pembrokeshire. I think it is absolutely really exciting, and I've been talking about it, actually, with my colleague Vikki Howells, the new Minister for HE and FE, and she's also very excited about it. So, we've said that if we can possibly do a joint visit, we will, but if not, she's going to come and visit on her own very shortly as part of her tour of colleges. But she was very keen to see that work in particular. But, as I say, I'm very, very keen to also find out about it, because people are very excited about it and I'm very keen to find out more.

Following the announcement that the greenwashing cross-border HyNet proposal will be going ahead, piping carbon dioxide from Stanlow across Flintshire to be stored offshore at Talacre, how will the Health and Safety Executive and Natural Resources Wales ensure that the transportation of carbon dioxide will not be susceptible to any leakages or ruptures along the pipeline or when it's stored offshore at Talacre; that communities impacted will be properly compensated and not just given £3,000 for reinstatement of a play area; and that there will be proper transition away from fossil fuels and carbon dioxide carbon capture? I heard that Stanlow are actually building a carbon dioxide importer and they're looking to import green ammonia also, and, possibly, they will be importing green ammonia from India as part of this project to create blue hydrogen. Thank you.

I'm very grateful for the question. I just want to acknowledge that I know that Carolyn Thomas has some very strong views on this particular proposal. I would say, though, that the Welsh Government has been working for a number of years with HyNet on this multimillion-pound decarbonisation project. I did have the opportunity, alongside the Cabinet Secretary for Transport, to visit Heidelberg Materials in Padeswood recently—that's part of the consortium behind the project, which has been shortlisted for funding as part of the UK Government's phase 2 carbon capture and storage cluster sequencing process. 

The project would capture and store around 800,000 tonnes of carbon dioxide annually and enable the cement plant to produce net-zero-carbon cement, which, I think, is a really significant step forward for the cement industry; it would be the first net-zero cement factory, I think, in the UK, if not well beyond that as well. So, we are working really closely on that. 

On that broader point about carbon capture and storage, it is the Welsh Government's intention to provide a clearer statement of our views and our approach to carbon capture usage and storage, which, potentially, we would offer up for consultation, for example, alongside our approach to hydrogen as well, because both of these things are new and innovative. We know that people do have strong views, and we're keen to hear from them.

Cabinet Secretary, thank you very much for your statement. There's much in it that I welcome, but the proof will be, as always, in the pudding. You talk about a pro-worker and pro-business approach to economic growth, but this simply isn't the case. Certainly, many businesses I've spoken to wouldn't feel that—many of those small and medium-sized enterprises—certainly in the hospitality, retail and leisure sector. You know, in that area, they were paying double the rates of business rates as their counterparts in England, and that was causing massive pressures, especially if they live near the borders.

Now, SMEs more generally are the lifeblood of the Welsh economy, but seem to be often neglected, as in this statement; I don't think they're mentioned once in the statement. Your Government now has the ability to implement a split multiplier to ensure that SMEs in Wales do not pay the same rate as larger businesses. What plans do you have to use this power to alleviate the tax burden on many small family-run businesses here in Wales?

I'm grateful for the question, and I would just remind colleagues that the extension of the temporary rate relief for the hospitality sector at 40 per cent follows the support of over £2 billion over recent years, and it was a legacy of COVID that we were seeking to address through the continuation of the relief in that particular space.

Peter Fox is right that the new Local Government Finance (Wales) Act 2024, as it is now, does give the Welsh Government the ability to vary the multiplier in future. The Welsh Government would want to consult on that; I think that's really important, and I know that colleagues from across the Chamber have already given some ideas as to how we might go about using the multiplier, both in terms of a sectoral approach or a geographical approach, so there are a range of options that could be undertaken. It would be for my colleague the finance Secretary to bring forward any proposals in due course, but just to confirm that there would be no intention to use that multiplier in the next financial year, because we would have to undertake consultation, and there would be decisions that would have to be made that just don't align with the timelines of the budget. So, it is a more of a longer term—or certainly not an immediate term—tool for the Welsh Government.

And finally, James Evans.

Diolch, Deputy Presiding Officer. Cabinet Secretary, you mentioned green growth in your statement, but green growth does come at a cost to communities. Many people in Brecon and Radnorshire are very concerned about the industrialisation of mid Wales by large-scale wind turbines. The First Minister and the Prime Minister's visit to an onshore windfarm caused alarm to many in my constituency, and also Ed Miliband's rhetoric isn't really helping that either. Cabinet Secretary, will this Welsh Government stand up for the people of mid Wales and stop the industrialisation of the countryside, or will you stand with big corporations and allow windfarms to be put all over my constituency on the road to net zero?

I think the important point here is that Welsh Government is on a journey towards net zero, and renewable energy will absolutely play an important part of that, but there are a range of sources of renewable energy. We've talked a lot this afternoon about floating offshore wind; there's more traditional offshore wind, solar. We haven't really talked much this afternoon—although I've got a statement on energy next week, so we might get into that a bit more then—about community generation and so on. So, there's a whole range of ways in which we would go about our journey to net zero and delivering on our approach to renewable energy.

What is the most important thing, really, is that communities are always involved and engaged, and that consultation process is really important. I know that consultation can take time. Developers find the time, sometimes, frustrating, but I think that that is something in the system that we have to absolutely respect, to give communities the chance to have their say, and then also to make sure that the community benefits that are aligned to that are sufficient and appropriate. And I think that's one of the things that Trydan Gwyrdd Cymru gives us a real opportunity to consider, and that's community benefits. So, with Welsh Government developing these projects, we'll have the opportunity, I think, to think differently about community benefits, and I'm keen to hear colleagues' views on that.

I thank the Cabinet Secretary.

Item 5 is a statement by the Minister for Culture, Skills and Social Partnership. And I call on the Minister to make the statement—Jack Sargeant.

Diolch yn fawr, Dirprwy Lywydd. Nearly a decade ago, this Senedd passed an ambitious, groundbreaking piece of legislation, the Well-being of Future Generations (Wales) Act 2015. Unique to Wales, it sets a common purpose for the public sector, and details the ways in which the public bodies listed in the Act must work and work together to improve the lives of people in Cymru, now and in the future. It placed a clear expectation that public bodies would collaborate and involve people in their decision making. Since that Act was passed, the well-being of future generations agenda has been driving continuous improvement in how Government and public bodies work, so that future generations can expect a better quality of life on a healthy planet.

We have, Llywydd, more recently taken another bold step, building on the well-being of future generations Act to embed our distinctive Welsh way of partnership working into our public services. This is also built on the principle that decisions are better when they involve people who are affected by them—in this case, workers. I am delighted to be leading the implementation of the Social Partnership and Public Procurement (Wales) Act 2023. It consolidates the place of the well-being of future generations Act in our public services. A new social partnership duty is now in force, which means that workers have a stronger voice in the delivery of public services, which, in turn, should lead to better outcomes for citizens and communities. 

The social partnership council places social partnership on a statutory footing, bringing together public, private, third sector and worker representatives to advise Ministers on social partnership issues. I co-chaired the fourth meeting of the council with the First Minister last week, and was pleased that the council is already embedding social partnership at the heart of the Welsh Government's policy making. The council is exploring how the Welsh Government can use its financial levers to drive fair work, and has provided cross-sector employer and worker perspectives on our budget preparations and our annual legislative programme.

Shared ownership of problems and a shared commitment to joint solutions give us an opportunity to build an economy that promotes fair work, promotes equality, and promotes economic, social and environmental justice—Llywydd, an economy in which everyone has a voice. This isn’t just about legislation; this is about changing lives. We have long encouraged social partnership working, bringing together partners from across Government, employers and trade unions, as the best means of finding solutions to the challenges facing Wales, based on meaningful and honest collaboration. This Welsh way of working, characterised by shared ownership of problems and a shared commitment to joint solutions, is built on relationships based on trust and respect. And in the current economic climate, and against a backdrop of tight budgets, it's more important now than ever before.

The delivery challenge we face over the next 18 months is immense, and we need every £1 that we spend to deliver the most impact that it can. Every public sector worker needs to feel that they can challenge processes and raise concerns about inefficient activities or unnecessary tasks. Social partnership at organisational level is the basis for those discussions. Llywydd, it’s a model that transcends barriers and is as important to the private sector as it is the public sector. It shouldn’t be restricted to only those settings or organisations captured by the legislation. I firmly believe that social partnership principles should be extended as widely as possible.

This is a model that has been proven to work, and let me give you a few examples of the positive impact social partnership working can have on individuals and wider sectors alike. In the retail sector, for example, social partnership has seen the establishment of the retail forum, the introduction of a retail action plan, and a commitment from Government, trade unions and employers to work together collectively to address key issues facing the sector. Employers, unions and Government have worked together successfully though the social care fair work forum to implement the real living wage. Our registered social care workforce and personal assistants have the dignity of earning a living wage. 

The workforce partnership council, a partnership of trade unions, public sector employers and Welsh Government, continues to progress a work plan that includes promoting equality, diversity and inclusion in the workplace and the ethical use of artificial intelligence in the public sector. And more recently we have established the workforce rights and responsibilities forum, where our successful model of social partnership will improve collective understanding of workplace rights and responsibilities.

Llywydd, these are examples that show the Welsh way of working has produced clear and demonstrable benefits across the whole of our economy, both in the private and public sector. The growing interest in adopting social partnership frameworks by further education institutions to guide their business interests shows that even those who aren’t directly captured by the legislation can see the benefit of this way of working.

I am proud of what we have already achieved through our social partnership approach, but, Llywydd, we will not be resting on our laurels. As my colleague the Cabinet Secretary for Economy, Energy and Planning referred to in her statement earlier this afternoon, there are exciting opportunities arising from the UK Government’s policy agenda, which is intended to deliver the biggest upgrade to workers’ rights in a generation.

This Welsh Labour Government wholeheartedly support their plan to make work pay. The plan covers legally enforceable rights and duties on many areas we have been trying to promote and encourage in Wales on a voluntary basis, including the banning of exploitative zero-hour contracts, the ending of fire-and-rehire tactics, the repeal of the Strikes (Minimum Service Levels) Act 2023 and Trade Union Act 2016, and introducing basic rights for all on day one of employment.

On Monday this week I met with Minister Justin Madders, who is responsible for delivering these changes set out in the plan to make work pay, and has committed to bringing forward an employment rights Bill. My officials have been having constructive discussions with their Whitehall counterparts about how best we can implement the changes it will bring. 

Llywydd, these measures, alongside our Welsh way of social partnership, will help to make work fairer, safer and more secure for all; ambitions that the Welsh Government fully shares. We have come a long way over the last decade and have seen many positive benefits of the approach that has been taken. But there is always more that can be done, and we will continue to work in partnership to use our collective expertise to find solutions to our common problems. Llywydd, I passionately believe that this is the best way to make a positive difference and to make a positive difference for our communities, for our economy and for our country. It is in this way we will create a Wales we all want to live in, now and in the future. Diolch. 

Thank you, Minister, for your statement today. In July this year, the then Minister for Social Partnership, Sarah Murphy, first explained how social partnership is embedded in the way of working in Wales and said that we've been doing it for a long time and that it is the Welsh way, a model that transcends barriers—something I know that you are now continuing to repeat. However, I think it's a bit presumptuous to say that the Welsh way of social partnership is something unique and different to other social partnerships, given that it is an approach that has been applied by many countries globally since the second world war, including all UK nations, and it is also a bit facetious to describe social partnership in Wales as the Welsh way, when working in collaboration to solve problems has always been at the heart of business and Government.  

I believe, Minister, that you're overselling the social partnership collaborative working model as an unique way in which Wales can solve its economic problems. The fact is that this Government has demonstrated no clear plan of how legislating for a way of working is going to improve the economic outcome of Wales. You may be aware, Minister, that gross value added—a good measure of productivity—has declined steadily from 84.3 per cent in 2004 to 82.7 per cent today, dipping to its lowest amount in 2009, and Wales has languished in one of the bottom four positions for employment rates and weekly earnings for over 20 years. And we have even experienced a disposable income drop by 4 per cent, compared to the UK average, since 2004. Moreover, other economic measures have not really changed, other than to follow the same trajectories as the rest of the UK. So, I ask, Minister: what will now be different? How will legislation requiring sharing ownership of problems and a shared commitment to joint solutions create any new opportunity to improve the economy that doesn't exist, or didn't exist before? If the Welsh way, as you describe it, had any actual economic benefits for workers, businesses and industry, surely this would have been realised by now. 

You give an example in your statement regarding social partnership in the retail sector, as showing that our Welsh way of working has produced clear and demonstrable benefit across the whole economy, private and public sector alike. You also say this as a prelude to what has been achieved through our social partnership approach. Yet the retail sector forum was realised in March 2022, before this social partnership legislation was even in place, and it doesn't actually demonstrate the economic benefits of social partnership. It only demonstrates mutual understanding of the different perspective of each forum member, of the pressures and problems that different retail businesses are experiencing, and organises that communication to the Welsh Government. 

The retail sector is suffering in Wales and needs action. High streets are struggling because business rates are too high relative to turnover, meaning cost of items are much higher. There is insufficient parking, and what parking is available is often deemed too expensive, and there are even too few public toilets, which deters many people from wanting to shop on our high street. You don't need social partnership legislation to solve those problems; what you need is for the Welsh Government and our local councils to stop punishing high streets with extortionate rates and charges. 

I've stated many times, Minister, that I'm at a loss as to the problem this Government is actually trying to solve with this legislation. I wonder now if you would be able to tell me. Social partnership is not unique or new to Wales, but has been implemented by businesses for decades. So, what, in your mind, is the point of legislating for social partnership? And let's be honest, enshrining a Welsh way of working as a legacy that doesn't deliver any noticeable experience or projected economic benefits, that is just not going to cut it. 

As the third Minister for this portfolio, I'm also interested to know what measures you plan on using to record the success or failure of social partnership going forward. At the time the legislation was going through the Chamber, it was heavily criticised for having made no assessment of the issues that workers or businesses in Wales actually face, and that social partnership legislation could solve. So, Minister, I'm genuinely curious: what will you now do to show that this legislation is having an impact?

It has also been well documented that the well-being of future generations Act took an extremely long time to even be recognised, and even seven years after its implementation, a number of public bodies still claimed that they hadn't heard of it. We also know that implementation of policy in general by the Welsh Government has been a real problem, and a social partnership Act undoubtedly has the same potential. Public bodies do not really have the resources to make the changes needed and therefore will not end up implementing it, because there are no consequences to not doing so. Therefore, Minister, what actions are you now taking to embed this legislation into the public sector in Wales? And if a public body, for one reason or another, fails to comply, are you going to take punitive action in any way? What will you do to enforce compliance?

Finally, Minister, I'd like to mention—

You are well out of time now.

I've got a last paragraph. Can I finish it?

You can ask the last question.

Oh, well, okay. Finally, Minister, one quick thing: there's no mention whatsoever of disabled workers in the statement, and I know, for example, in the Equality and Social Justice Committee, the Equality and Human Rights Commission has called for disabled people to be better represented in sub-groups and, unfortunately, it hasn't had a response. So, I'm keen to know what you'll do to give a voice to them at the table in future representations. Thank you.

I thank Joel James for the comments and questions on today's statement. Perhaps unsurprising is the tone that the Member decided to take on the approach we take here in Wales. I'm proud of the Welsh way we take, when it comes to social partnership.

If I take his last point first, Presiding Officer, around disabled workers, because I think that is a valuable contribution from the Member, and it's something that we all across Government need to take seriously when we bring forward legislation. I'm content and comfortable in saying that all Ministers across the Government recognise there is more to do in terms of the inclusion of people with disabilities, across different representations that need to be represented on bodies, and it's why the workforce partnership council and the work they're doing to improve equality, diversity and inclusion will be key to making sure that we hear a range of views and a range of voices, going forward.

To pick up on a number of the points—perhaps I won't be able to cover them all today, Presiding Officer—when it comes to the retail sector—. Well, since the establishment of the retail forum—. And I take his point that that was established before the social partnership legislation, but since the social partnership legislation has come into force, we've seen the retail sector forum, which the Cabinet Secretary referred to earlier in her statement, we've seen the development, through social partnership, of the retail action plan. Those discussions that have taken place and the creation of that action plan are a demonstrable benefit of the social partnership Act working for the retail sector. When I had responsibility for the retail sector over the summer, one of the conversations I had with social partners, trade unions, businesses and, indeed, the north Wales police and crime commissioner, Andy Dunbobbin, was around crime, retail crime, and how we can address that. And it was recognised, in Boots in Bangor, that the way to address retail crime is through the model of social partnership.

And I think, finally, Presiding Officer, the Member mentions opportunities, and what opportunities will be realised because of social partnership and the approach of social partnership. Well, let's take the example of the opportunities in our green growth and jobs commitments and priorities. Those opportunities, where we will realise future technologies, green technologies, in a range of different industries across Wales, I want to see Wales and Welsh workers playing a part in developing those technologies, and it's incredibly important that we transition in a way that works for workers and make sure that this transition does not just happen to them. The social partnership approach and the legislation will enable them to have that voice at the table.

I think we should be proud of the work we're doing here to support workers, Presiding Officer. You have to wonder, when you look across the M4 to the Conservative leadership contest, where a leading figure in the Conservative Party thinks maternity pay is excessive and has gone too far. Well, I would reflect on the Conservatives in this place to call that out for what that is. We as a Welsh Government don't believe that. Now, while they go on and have those nonsensical debates in their own leadership contests, Presiding Officer, this Welsh Government will continue to work with our UK Labour counterparts on improving workers' rights and the voice of the worker.

I thank the Minister for his statement today. I'm going to take a moment to talk about the working of the social partnership council. There are some unanswered questions about its priorities, its operations and practical impact. While the council brings unions, businesses and the Government to the table, it remains unclear how its workload is decided, so what its forward work plan is, what advice it has provided to Welsh Ministers to date, and then, more importantly, how the Welsh Government has responded to that advice. So, could the Minister outline what work is under way in these areas and what the council's measurable goals are? So, in five years, what does success look like? To this end, I'd also be interested to know if any sub-groups have been established yet to address sector-specific challenges and consider, of course, the diverse needs of the Welsh economy.

Turning to the practical impact of social partnership and the work of the council, I think it's very hard to ignore the reality of what's happened on the ground with regard to Tata Steel, which is indicative of a long-running structural issue within the Welsh economy that could potentially continue to undermine the implementation of the fair work agenda, even as this is placed on a statutory footing. The policy failure that has led to the loss of primary steel making has taken place within a broader set of issues surrounding how the economy and large employers are managed as part of the shift to net zero. What happened with Tata has merely resulted in the offshoring of carbon emissions, as opposed to a genuine just transition to net zero. So, in reflecting on what has happened in Port Talbot, many of the aspirations when it comes to social partnership and fair work crumbled away, crystalised by the threats made by Tata, like the pulling of redundancy packages from workers if they went on strike. We saw the need there for proactive Government, so what place will the legislation and the work of the council have in the management of future situations that demand such an approach? And, to conclude, are you able to convince workers in industries vulnerable to industrial change that they will be protected as a result of social partnership?

Can I thank Luke Fletcher for his comments as the Plaid Cymru spokesperson this afternoon? To answer your points on the social partnership council, well, the social partnership council is in its fourth meeting. I co-chaired the fourth meeting last week, where in attendance was the Cabinet Secretary for economy, to have a discussion around fair work and some of the economic contract that we've heard about from Hannah Blythyn already in the contributions earlier today. They will also play a vital role in advising Ministers around our budget, for example, around our legislative programme, for example, and they will take the annual review of our well-being goals. There are sub-committees of the social partnership council being set up, and one of those, as the Cabinet Secretary for economy referred to earlier, is around the piece of work on fair work and what that means—the Welsh Government in particular using their financial levers, perhaps, to promote fair work, in a way. 

Moving to Tata Steel, can I thank Luke Fletcher for the discussion on Tata Steel? I think he's right to raise Tata Steel today. Of course, we would have hoped, perhaps through social partnership, that we would have had a better outcome for the workforce there. I think it's important now to look at the future of the workforce and how we transition, in a way. So, the future of steel making in Port Talbot and what that may be should very much have the workers' voice at the heart of the discussion and decision making there. I think it's important that the three trade unions, Community, Unite and GMB, are all on the transition board that I know the Member is also a part of, and I think it's our model of social partnership that can really help that transition board deliver and help the company deliver a better steel plan for the future. I think it's also worth pointing out that because of our trade union colleagues in Port Talbot, in the steelworks—I know, Presiding Officer, you'll have a keen interest in this—the new community support centre has been opened, supported by Community union and the Welsh Government. That's social partnership again in action, where it will go on to support a number of workers who will face redundancy because of the Tata Steel closures that are taking place there.

And I think, more in general, where we can strengthen guidance and support when it comes to social partnership, well, I think there's a real opportunity, isn't there? And I referred to the opportunities in my statement, with UK Labour's plan to make work pay. Here in Wales we have an approach that we'd like to share. We have an approach that I think we can build on. And it's making sure that workers have those legally enforceable duties coming through from Westminster, where we can support, and I hope that the Senedd in its entirety can support, when a legislative consent motion is laid on that topic, that can go on to strengthen workers' rights from day 1, with the ending of fire and rehire, for example, and the banning of zero-hours contracts, to say just a few. I look forward to that employment rights Bill being tabled in due course, and I think that will go a long way in strengthening workers, and will very much have the social partnership approach and the Welsh way of working at its heart.

Thank you for your first statement today.

You're right when you say that it's not just about legislation, it's about changing lives, and also from that perspective, it's about not just the policy and the principles, but the practical impact and outcome that that has for workers across Wales. And whilst I recognise social partnership and the structures that enabled it are distinct from industrial relations and perhaps negotiations around pay and conditions, there is an interaction between them. Social partnership can underpin good industrial relations, and bad industrial relations can sometimes, potentially, undermine social partnership.

Whilst I recognise that this is not directly within your portfolio, as the Minister responsible for social partnership across Government, can I just raise something that's been raised with me by the RMT regarding the harmonisation of pay and conditions for Transport for Wales's cleaners? I understand, back in 2020, TfW took a decision to terminate its outsourced cleaning contract and bring all its cleaners in-house. This decision was welcomed at the time, as you would expect, by the RMT, and it's a significant step they'd like to see emulated elsewhere. However, fast forward to today, we find that these workers are not employed on the same pay rates or conditions of employment, and TfW's cleaners remain a two-tier workforce. Can I ask that you'll raise this with your colleague the Cabinet Secretary for transport, and agree with me on getting all partners back around the table for a positive outcome?

Can I thank Hannah Blythyn for that question and the comments around social partnership in general? I should place on record, Presiding Officer, my thanks to both Sarah Murphy, my predecessor, and Hannah Blythyn as well for the instrumental role she played in bringing forward this legislation. I spoke about two pieces of legislation today in this statement: first, the well-being of future generations Act, taken through by a Member from Connah’s Quay; and a second piece of legislation, the social partnership and public procurement Act, taken through by, again, a Member from Connah’s Quay. Well, I'm delighted to be the third Quay-ite in a ministerial position to drive forward some of the delivery that these progressive Acts can realise, and I want to pay tribute to Hannah Blythyn for the work she did in making all of that possible.

When it comes to the issues between RMT union and TfW, I'll be sure to raise with the Cabinet Secretary for Transport and North Wales that very topic. I don't think it would be appropriate for me to comment further. But what I will say to anyone who is having disputes, perhaps, at the level of industrial action or even before the level of any industrial action, the best way to resolve issues in the workplace is to get back around the table, have those honest and collaborative conversations in the Welsh way of social partnership, and I certainly encourage TfW and the RMT union to do that in that case.

And finally, Jenny Rathbone.

Thank you very much. I welcome your bold statement that the well-being of future generations agenda has been driving continuous improvement in how Government and public bodies work—something that I will be keen to evaluate going forward. Fair work isn't just about wages; it's also about the conditions in which people work and how we show we value them. I'm aware that, in your own constituency, ClwydAlyn Housing provides freshly produced meals for its care home residents as well as its workforce. How will the public procurement aspect of this social partnership approach promote the public procurement of food made in Wales for serving in our schools, our hospitals, our care homes, benefiting the people who produce and grow and process that food, as well as the people who deliver and use these public services?

I thank Jenny Rathbone for that. Deputy Presiding Officer, I'd like to recognise Jenny's invaluable work in the Senedd when it comes to advocating the opportunities procurement offers to change the approach about how we procure food in Wales. What that means is it's not just the person who ends up eating the food, but all of the things and the benefits that it brings around the local economy and the jobs.

Jenny Rathbone mentioned ClwydAlyn Housing in my own constituency, Deputy Presiding Officer. I think they're an organisation that has a really progressive outlook on issues such as these, and it's an area that we can learn more from. I know of the work that they do with Well-Fed in particular in my constituency. And the Member has done lots of work as a Member of the Senedd but also through chairing the Equality and Social Justice Committee around what better food quality can offer to the people of Wales. And I think, again, that is something that we should seek to inform ourselves more of, and to see where we can enhance our offer.

When it comes to the public procurement part of this legislation, we are seeking to maximise the contribution public procurement makes in achieving our well-being goals, when we refer back to the well-being of future generations Act. Food is very much a category of procurement spend where all of our well-being goals are important to it. We'll be continuing to develop the statutory procurement guidance, and this will provide an opportunity to highlight good case studies—like the one in ClwydAlyn and Well-Fed—in food procurement. I think that's the opportunity then to see how we can maximise its potential across all public bodies and across Wales. Thank you.

 Thank you, Minister.

Item 6 is next, and that's a statement by the Cabinet Secretary for Education on Welsh-medium education through late immersion. I call on the Cabinet Secretary for Education, Lynne Neagle.

Thank you, Dirprwy Lywydd. I'd like to take this opportunity today to highlight and celebrate the work undertaken in our Welsh language late immersion centres across Wales, and the part that we as the Welsh Government are playing in supporting that work.

How we immerse children in the Welsh language is unique to us in Wales. Pupil level annual school census 2024 data shows an increase in the number and percentage of year 1 learners learning through the medium of Welsh, which is a clear signal to me that commitments in local authority Welsh in education strategic plans are taking root. We know the importance of the early years sector as a point of early entry to Welsh-medium education, and that Welsh-medium education is our principal method for ensuring children develop into confident and independent users of the Welsh language, and for creating new speakers. However, not everyone will begin their Welsh language learning at those early points.

This is the space that late immersion provision occupies. Late immersion provision is an intensive Welsh language learning programme, which enables entry into Welsh-medium education at a later stage. Learners with little or no Welsh can engage with the programme for up to twelve weeks, during which they continue to maintain contact with their home school, and the curriculum, until they're ready to continue their education through the medium of Welsh. I have seen first-hand what can be achieved in just a few short weeks. During my recent visit to Ysgol Corn Hir on Ynys Môn, I had the privilege to meet a year 6 learner, Artem, who had recently transferred from a Welsh language immersion centre and was thriving.

Whilst late immersion centres have been a part of the education offer in some parts of Wales for many years, up until 2021 not all local authorities were able to provide this invaluable service locally. This is why we've invested £8.8 million to support the establishment of late immersion provision in all local authorities. This includes expanding already-established provision as well as enabling the remaining local authorities to establish their own provision locally.

The impact has been significant. Local authorities report that demand for their provision has grown considerably. For example, when I visited the late immersion centre in Ysgol Gynradd Groes-wen in Cardiff last week, I was told that they had welcomed their largest ever cohort of learners this year, including a significant proportion of learners from diverse backgrounds. Wrexham has supported over 600 learners within its centre since it opened in 2022, and in my constituency of Torfaen, the Carreg Lam immersion centre at Ysgol Panteg has not only seen a year-on-year increase in numbers but has also identified opportunities to strengthen school transition arrangements between years 6 and 7 across the local authority area.

Over 4,000 learners have benefited from late immersion intensive language programmes since 2021. Late immersion teaching practices have also been used to reinforce Welsh language skills amongst those less confident learners, particularly post pandemic. The recently published Estyn thematic report on developing pupils’ Welsh reading skills from 10 to 14 years of age acknowledged the role late immersion centres play in developing effective Welsh language skills amongst learners who transfer from the English-medium sector. The funding to local authorities has also supported the retention and recruitment of over 60 late immersion practitioners, as well as enabled creative use of technology to enrich the learning experience. Cyngor Gwynedd, for example, has led the development of a virtual village, Pentref Aberwla, using virtual reality technology that will be rolled out nationally over time.

With late immersion now a part of every local authority’s offer, we’ve taken the opportunity to establish a late immersion network to bring late immersion practitioners and local authority officers together to share good practice and research-based knowledge. We're fast becoming world leaders in late immersion provision. The work we do here in Wales is also gaining attention outside of Wales. Late immersion practitioners and academics from Quebec are keen to work in partnership with us and will attend one of our late immersion network meetings online early next year. 

This is an opportunity today to celebrate the achievements of our late immersion practitioners, and the local authorities supporting them. The creativity and support they provide to each other within the network, to learners, and to schools across Wales deserves to be celebrated and applauded. I congratulate you all for what you have achieved and look forward to continuing to work in partnership to support learners on their Welsh language journeys. Diolch yn fawr.

Thank you, Cabinet Secretary, for your statement this afternoon. It's important to say—although it feels like I say it all the time when we're doing statements of this kind—that the Welsh language belongs to everyone. It's important that everyone feels that there is an opportunity for them to speak Welsh and to access education through the medium of Welsh. It doesn't matter if you're from a Welsh-speaking family or a Welsh-speaking community. The fact that everyone can have that choice to access Welsh education, to speak Welsh and develop Welsh language skills is important. That's why I think that this statement is very important today.

I have a couple of observations, but can I start by saying that I think late immersion is very good for those that have missed out, as you acknowledged, on those early Welsh language opportunities in childcare, in nursery, and in schools? But how can we make sure that fewer people are in that position in the first place through choice? I'll give you an example: in the town I live in, Porthcawl, we don't have a Welsh-medium primary school, so if I wanted to send children to a Welsh language school, that mightn't be possible and would involve a longer journey. So, hopefully, increasing over time the amount of those Welsh-medium primary schools will, in a sense, make these immersion centres less needed coming down the track.

I would question as well—and you mentioned this, I think, in the statement—the geography of some of the places that you've chosen to host these Welsh language immersion centres. I wonder whether going for the largest increases in the number of speakers to arrive at that 1 million speakers by 2050—. Wouldn't it be sensible, in a sense, to go for some of the places where we have the fewest Welsh speakers? Looking at Flintshire, 6 per cent of pupils currently are in Welsh language education—there's no immersion centre. Monmouthshire, 3 per cent, the same. So, I'm just curious, Minister, whether you can explain the logic behind why, whilst all will have access, not all authorities will host an immersion centre. Obviously, as I made clear in the previous point, geography does factor in quite a lot into these decisions as to whether to access one of these things.

We obviously know this will be one of a suite of tools that you'll have available to reach that 1 million speakers by 2050. I think we were all concerned by the last census that saw a decrease in the number of speakers. As ever, with Welsh-medium education, for this to be successful, we need teachers. We need teachers that can teach in the Welsh language. I'm concerned, looking at the Education Workforce Council statistics, that since 2020 the number of teachers who say that they can't speak Welsh has gone up by 2 percentage points, from 62.7 per cent in 2020 to 64.6 per cent in 2024. So, not only are we seeing a general issue that I know we've discussed in the past about the number of teachers being recruited, it seems the proportion of them that cannot speak Welsh also goes up. Obviously, not only will these immersion centres need to be staffed, but, in addition, if we're going to have an increase in Welsh-medium education, we will need the staff to go with it. So, without that long-term workforce plan, we may well end up being off track in our aims here more generally.

I think the biggest change coming down the track—and I'm glad the Cabinet Secretary for the Welsh language is sat next to you—is the Welsh language Bill that is coming forward that the Cabinet Secretary is introducing. How do you envision that the Welsh language Bill will interface with these immersion centres? Because, going back to staffing, we heard evidence from teaching unions last week in the education committee that raised severe concerns about the availability of staff. All agreed with the principle of the Bill, but felt that it would be difficult to deliver unless we had a long-term plan to increase the number of teachers that were able to teach in the Welsh language. So, I'm curious as to how you see the Welsh language Bill interfacing with Welsh immersion centres and staffing more generally.

I'm curious as well to ask—. You mentioned 4,000 learners benefiting from late immersion. That's a very encouraging number. What I would then ask is how many then go on from an English stream into a Welsh stream. So, if they are in an English-medium primary school, they go to their immersion centre, how many of them then opt to not go to an English-medium secondary school, use the knowledge they've learned and either go on to dual stream or to Welsh language?

I think the important thing that I wanted to get across as well is that we can do as much teaching in the Welsh language as we want, and the Government can put forward as many programmes as it wants, but the one thing that none of us can teach is confidence. I think it's very important that this is not just a 12-week programme where people learn Welsh and they learn it to a high standard, but have the confidence to continue to use it, weeks, months, years after they leave these immersion centres. I wonder how you will keep track of that as time goes on. Diolch yn fawr.

Thank you very much, Tom, and thank you for your positive response to the statement. I absolutely agree with you that the Welsh language is for everyone. We don't want anybody to be left behind. That's why we're taking forward the policies that we are.

You referred to the fact that you haven't got a Welsh-medium primary school where you live. You'll be aware that the WESPs are our current mechanism for making sure that we have enough Welsh-medium provision available. All local authorities produce their WESPs and they come in to the Welsh Government. They're currently in with us. We're reviewing them, and then we'll be having discussions with those local authorities. But there are commitments in the WESPs to open 23 new Welsh-medium schools and expand 25 that already exist. Since 2022, and the band B investment and the Welsh-medium capital grant, we've supported 39 projects to increase Welsh-medium provision across Wales, and that includes 14 new schools that have been opened or relocated and 25 projects to expand Welsh-medium provision, which also includes some childcare projects.

Your points about geography are interesting, I think. I think, personally, that it's important that immersion is available for children and young people right across Wales. I think it’s also important to recognise that it is at different stages across Wales as well. So, in places like my constituency, Torfaen, which would be similar to Flintshire in terms of demographic, we've got the primary unit, but there are other authorities where they've got very well established immersion centres; they've got it at primary and secondary school. So, I don't think it is a one-size-fits-all, and I think it is about responding to the need in the community, really, but we see this as a growing area and one that we want to build on, which is very important for everyone to have access to.

You referred to some of the workforce issues, and, of course, they are challenging, and we discuss them all the time in this Chamber. We've got our Welsh in education workforce plan, and I was discussing with the Cabinet Secretary for Finance and Welsh Language yesterday some of the challenges around workforce and the Bill that's being taken forward. You'll be aware that we've got things like incentives to come and be a Welsh-medium teacher, but we're constantly reviewing what more we can do. In terms of the Bill that my colleague Mark Drakeford is taking forward, immersion centres are a clear part of that—a commitment to them, strengthening them but also promoting their availability locally as well, so that everybody is aware of them, building on the work that we've done in that space.

You make important points about transitions between primary and secondary school, and I know, from the conversations I've had with some staff in schools, that that can be an area where children are lost, so it's very important that we keep an eye on that situation. And as I said, there's good work going on in relation to Torfaen.

Now, I also thought the points that you made about confidence were really important. I did Welsh A-level at school, but I don't have a great deal of confidence in speaking it, I'll be quite honest with you, and I do think it is really important that we do give confidence to people in using the Welsh language. One of the things I've been struck by with the late immersion centres is that they're not just for children who haven't had any exposure to Welsh and need to get up to speed, they are also for children and young people who need to improve their confidence and their fluency in Welsh, and I think that's really important, especially after the pandemic, because we know that particularly children from English-speaking homes lost some of their language confidence during the pandemic. So, I think that they are multifaceted, really, and, of course, what they also give us—you know, we've got around 60 practitioners working in these centres—is a really rich source of workforce expertise, and I know that they are working with not just Welsh-medium teachers, but there's also work beginning with teachers in English language schools as well, to build on those skills and that confidence. So, I think it's a really good basis to go forward on and one that we can definitely build on.

I thank you, as the Cabinet Secretary, for the statement. Late immersion, as we all know, is a very important element of ensuring that we do reach the goal of a million Welsh speakers, and is part of the 'Cymraeg 2050' strategy. I also welcome the statement within the statement, and recognition by the Government that Welsh-medium education is the most effective way of developing confident and independent Welsh speakers. Of course, as as a party, we do support all efforts to expand the late immersion learning opportunities across Wales so that everyone who wants to learn and master our language has the opportunity to do so.

Now, very ironically, I do remember that emulating Canada's models back in the 1970s and 1980s—that's what Wales did in order to develop this idea of Welsh-medium education, so it's interesting to see that Québec is, by now, looking at our models and wants to learn from the work that we're doing, which, of course, is a very, very good thing.

I do remember being a part, in a different life, of supporting a number of the latecomer centres, particularly in Carmarthenshire, but they had been established before that in places like Gwynedd and Ceredigion, in order to assimilate families who were, primarily, moving to rural areas. But we have other models now, namely giving learners a second chance, or an opportunity for those who have started through the medium of English in primary schools, in year 6 and year 7, to move into the Welsh-medium stream, and that is also a very welcome development. I also welcome the commitment to provide £8.8 million to support these developments, and, again, I thank you for that.

The first question I have is: in looking to the future, how is it possible to plan and calculate how much funding is needed by every local authority, given that it's difficult to project migration patterns in Wales and the numbers that would need to transition from English-medium education to Welsh-medium education? Also, as I noted, there are different models of late immersion in Wales, so does the Minister have an opinion on the most successful model? Also, what model of provision for latecomers has been most successful over recent years in areas with a high density of Welsh speakers and areas with lower densities of Welsh speakers? That would be very interesting to hear.

We know that with Welsh-medium education in general, and the late immersion centres are examples of this, that transport is vital. It can be a barrier, also, in terms of allowing learners to have access to late immersion centres. So, does the Cabinet Secretary share my concern that travelling distances can be a problem, and what financial support, therefore, will local authorities receive from the Government to ensure that no children are being prevented from attending these centres because of travelling distances, particularly, if I may say, in rural areas, where distances are quite significant?

In considering the effectiveness of these centres, we have to consider that we need to take learners beyond a foundational or basic level of language learning. There will be a number of learners who have been in Welsh-medium cylchoedd meithrin previously and who will have gone to English-medium education, and perhaps they'll have a better grasp of the language—better than pure beginners. Therefore, is there an opportunity to have refresher courses, perhaps, in these immersion centres?

I remember being part of the work of evaluating some of these centres about seven or eight years ago. One of the deficiencies that we found was the lack of follow-on support for learners who had been in these centres, but after they went back to school, there was no support for them to develop confidence in their use of Welsh. The final two questions, therefore, Cabinet Secretary, are: what are the projections in terms of increasing the number of late immersion centres? Do you have an idea of how many are needed for the future? I also welcome the establishment of this network of language centres in order to learn from good practice. Who is going to lead this network, and could you ensure that there will be adequate funding to support them in the future? Thank you very much.

Can I thank Cefin Campbell for his positive response to the statement, which is very much appreciated, and also his welcome for the funding that's been made available for this work, which, as you've highlighted, has been really key to making sure it's delivered? You've alluded as well to the fact that Québec are looking at us. I think what that illustrates is that languages are living things, and they can ebb and flow unless you do continue to prioritise and invest in them. 

In terms of planning for places, obviously, the WESPs are a key mechanism that we've got currently to make sure that we are planning sufficiently for Welsh-medium education, and, as I've already said, all local authorities have submitted them; their plans will run for 10 years. We're currently reviewing the local authority WESPs and will be going back to them with feedback.

In terms of the different models of late immersion, you are correct in that, and some areas have peripatetic support for late immersion, which is, obviously, different to a child being in a centre. I will write to you about whether we have any evidence on what is most effective, because I personally wouldn't be qualified to say whether or not a particular version is more effective or not, or whether they work particularly well in high-density or low-density areas. What I would hope is happening is that local authorities are really carefully considering their demographic, considering the numbers that are coming through, and planning the provision accordingly. As you've rightly highlighted, transport is an issue, and we discussed this in questions last week. It's my understanding that we are giving support with transport, but I will write to you about that as well.

In terms of what you said about refresher courses, that's happening already, really. So, young people who have maybe been to meithrin, or even gone through primary school, they can have the opportunity to use the late immersion centres to really brush up on their confidence in Welsh. That's really important. 

Thank you for your welcome for the network. That's currently being co-ordinated by Welsh Government. I don't see it as a particularly expensive thing. It's an opportunity to bring people together, to share good practice. And just finally, on what you said about the lack of support for children going back to their school environment, I see this as really key, really. Obviously, you don't want to have a child immersed for 12 weeks and then just drop them back, and certainly the assurances I was given when I was at Ysgol Gynradd Groes-wen recently in Cardiff was that that is absolutely not what they do. They're working on an ongoing basis with the child to make sure that the child can go back to the school and is comfortable with what they're doing, and I think that's really important—that that sustained support is available.

I welcome the statement by the Minister. The younger the pupil, the better the immersion works. I'm told in Gwynedd there's an immersion unit in Welsh for pupils up to year 9. In other counties, there is only an immersion unit for primary school pupils. Effectively, Mudiad Meithrin is an early immersion scheme for children under nursery age from English-speaking families. This works very well, and I was fortunate enough to visit Meini Bach in Bonymaen on Monday.

The more words that children know in English, the more difficult it is to learn a second language, even via immersion. For those coming from outside English-speaking areas, then immersion in English appears to work, because it is the language children will hear on television and in social interaction. Does the Minister agree with me that the earlier the immersion, the better the outcome, and for Welsh, the most successful early immersion is Mudiad Meithrin?

Thank you very much, Mike, and thank you for your very positive comments about the meithrin movement in Wales, which, obviously, we provide funding for in Welsh Government. I do agree with you that, ideally, it's that early exposure to language in an immersive environment that can make the biggest difference, so I'm very happy to congratulate the work that's done in meithrin across Wales to embed the Welsh language. But I do think it's important that, if that isn't a choice that's been made by some families, we don't close off that opportunity to families in Wales. That's why we've got this late immersion provision in Wales, and you are right in that there's variability in terms of who offers it at primary and secondary school level. Some authorities have got secondary provision, but I'm also pleased to say that, as well as primary provision in Swansea, there's also now a pilot for secondary provision as well. So, that's clearly something that we need to build on, and it would pick up on the points that Cefin Campbell has referred to as being a source of support for young people who maybe need to build on their skills in the language. 

Immersion works, there's no doubt about that. There can be no debate about it, and of course we welcome this. What I would like is if you could provide us with a definition of immersion in every local authority in Wales, and what provision is available, and the pathways available for those learners. Because my understanding is that it does vary from one county to another, and that, as you mentioned, there is peripatetic immersion. In my region, there are immersion centres in Cardiff and the Vale of Glamorgan, but it's peripatetic in RCT. Unfortunately, teachers have told me that they don't define that as being immersion, and aren't seeing the progress that they'd like to see in those children. So, in order for us to truly celebrate this, when will we see that there is real immersion, and the same offer made available in all parts of Wales? How is the Welsh Government working towards that? Because your predecessor did recognise that it was a journey for every local authority, but it would good to know what the timetable is for ensuring that there is 12 weeks of intensive immersion available wherever you live in Wales, and also for learners who have disabilities and additional learning needs too.

Thank you, Heledd, and you are correct that the way that the services are run is different in different parts of Wales, and, as you've highlighted, in RCT it's a peripatetic service; in some authorities the children are in the unit for 12 weeks. I think it's important that we commend local authorities for what they're doing in this space, but there's always more that we can do. I have got a list here of who provides what for every local authority in Wales, but I'm sure you don't want me to run through it now. But I'm very happy to write to you with the list of what's available, and, as I said in response to Tom Giffard, I think we can only go from strength to strength with this, really. We've got the Bill now, which has a commitment to immersion. We will build on that, and I think it is important that we look at how this is working in different areas and make sure that we're using the best possible practices. I also completely agree with you about children with ALN, and that was one of the things I asked in the unit at Ysgol Groes-wen, because we don't want any learners left behind, and they were very reassuring that, yes, they do work with children with additional learning needs. Obviously, they work at their pace, but they are included in that. But I think we need to make sure that that's happening everywhere in Wales.

The other thing that has really, really struck me is the diversity of the children. So, the young person that I met in Anglesey was a Ukrainian refugee, and he had fluent Welsh. I met a little boy in Ysgol Groes-wen a couple of weeks ago and it was literally—again from another refugee family, literally his second day in the unit, and he just rushed up and he said ‘bore da’, and you could see he was so pleased with what he'd learnt. It was absolutely lovely to see. So, this is for everyone, isn't it, and it's important that we embrace that.

Thank you, Cabinet Secretary, for this important work and for your very natural contribution in Welsh at the start of the statement. I hope that your confidence will only grow from now on. I remember in the early 1990s, in 1990, people calling my mother cruel because she allowed children from English-medium schools to join our cylch meithrin. Later on in primary school, I remember my peers leaving Welsh-medium education because their families were advised by the school that English-medium education would suit their children better. We've come a long way in 30 years, and I do know children who have become fluent through immersion units after their families moved back to Wales. 

But, despite the funding from the Government, I do share the concern expressed by Heledd Fychan that not all local authorities have a Welsh language immersion unit. When do you expect a unit in every local authority? It's obvious that there is a lack of consistency at present. How is the Cabinet Secretary going to ensure that good practice and consistency is seen across all local authorities? Thank you.   

Thank you very much, and you make very important points about inclusion and being inclusive, and I think that's key, really, isn't it, to the language flourishing? I take on board what's been said about variability in the way the provision is made. I still think it's worth commending everybody that we've got this provision in every single part of Wales now, and that's a really big step forward. The WESPs are in; I will have a look to see what they say about the immersion provision, and there's an opportunity there to scrutinise what local authorities are doing in that space. But I also think the network that I've spoken to is a really good opportunity to share good practice and make sure that all authorities come up to the level of the best. 

That brings the statement to the close. Thank you to the Cabinet Secretary, and it's wonderful to hear you contributing in Welsh in opening that statement. And that brings today's proceedings to a close. Thank you all.