National Assembly for Wales

Good afternoon and welcome to this Plenary meeting. Before we begin this afternoon, it's my pleasure to welcome a delegation from the National Assembly of Quebec to the Senedd today. We welcome the President of the Assembly, Nathalie Roy, and three other members of the Assembly.

Bienvenue à la délégation de l'Assemblée Nationale du Québec au Parlement Gallois aujourd'hui. J'espère que votre visite vous sera utile et que nos deux parlements peuvent continuer à travailler ensemble à l'avenir.

Thank you very much. [Applause.]

The first item on this afternoon's agenda is questions to the First Minister, and the first question is from Darren Millar. 

Our plan for boosting the north Wales economy is set out in our economic mission and regional economic framework. We are working with our partners to highlight its distinctive strengths and to ensure that north Wales feels the benefits of the just transition to a stronger and greener economy.

First Minister, why are you still here? You don't have the confidence of this Senedd and you should respect the outcome of every vote taken by Members of the Welsh Parliament, not just those you agree with. 

Now, in respect of the economy, you know, and I know, that many town centres across north Wales are struggling. Under Labour, Wales has the highest high-street vacancy rate in Britain, our high streets are struggling to compete with online retailers and out-of-town shopping centres, and yet there's a lack of access to free parking to entice shoppers onto our high streets, and we've got the least competitive business rates regime in Britain. What action is the Welsh Government going to take to promote free parking in our town centres and to get business rates down so that our town centres can thrive once again?

Actually, if you look at what we need for the future of the Welsh economy, it is, of course, how we support small and medium-sized businesses. It is, of course, the budgetary means we have to do so. The reality is that our budget is worth £700 million less after three years as a direct result of the economic mismanagement of the UK, and the reality is that we have lost over £1 billion in former EU funds on which this Senedd should have been able to scrutinise the choices of the Welsh Government.

It shows that we have a clear plan for the future if you just take two parts that make a big difference in the four priorities set out by the economy Secretary. Think about clean power and the renewable opportunities that we have and the skills that go alongside that. There are huge strengths within north Wales when it comes to renewable energy and the jobs that should come with them. If we had a coherent set of powers, without the aggressive competition of a UK Government determined to stop us from doing what we are elected and sent here to do, we could actually create many more jobs with a longer term future, and we'd be doing the right thing for the planet. All those things will be possible with a different UK Government that sees Wales as a partner, not just someone that they want to constantly strive to take powers away from. Indeed, the manifesto you're standing on represents an enormous assault on devolution in the drivers Bill. It is an absolute disgrace. I am confident about the message we will take into the election and beyond, and what we look to do in a positive partnership for Wales and Britain after 4 July.

Fourteen years of Tory austerity have dismantled public services and funding, which could pay for free car parking and toilet facilities. It's had a severe impact on small businesses across north Wales due to inflationary pressures and the cost-of-living crisis. Many families now have less money in their pockets to spend in local shops, and there are fewer facilities. A Labour Government in Westminster will pull up the shutters for small businesses after years of decline, with plans to revitalise the high street through the roll-out of banking hubs and levelling up the playing fields between high street shops and online giants. First Minister, will your Welsh Labour Government work with a UK Labour Government to deliver prosperity for small businesses on our high streets?

Thank you for the question and the reality of what's happened after 14 years of the Tories. I know the Tories don't like hearing it, but it's the undeniable truth. Fourteen years of austerity have had a major impact on public services and the economy. There is a reason why the UK is one of the slowest growing nations of the G7. It is not an accident that the Tories have been running the UK Government through those 14 years. 

And when it comes to what we're able to do—the review on business rates, which Rebecca Evans is already commencing—we could do so much more in what we're able to do with a different partner at a UK level, taking action on the cost-of-living crisis. The fact that working people's taxes are higher now than at any other time in living record is not a mistake; a deliberate choice made by the Tories. More money in people's pockets, more money to spend on the high street, a Government that has a plan and sees us as a positive partner—that's what we could have after July 4, and I look forward to campaigning for just that outcome.

Thank you for the question. Our assessment is that there are two realistic outcomes for Wales. The first would be more of the same—a continuation of economic mismanagement, attacks on devolution, and crime going unpunished. The second would be a mission-led Government, led by Keir Starmer, working in partnership with the Welsh Government, with a serious plan to change Wales and Britain for the better.

Thank you, First Minister. Now, the UK Tory Government's shared prosperity fund was, of course, billed as one of their key schemes to replace European Union funding lost after Brexit, and we know how important this funding is to Wales. Of course, we learnt in recent weeks that Rishi Sunak plans to raid the coffers of the shared prosperity fund in order to finance his deeply unpopular plan to bring back national service. And if this isn't bad enough, I was very concerned to read a briefing from the Industrial Communities Alliance, which states that 2,000 directly employed posts are set to be lost in Wales when the latest round of SPF funding comes to an end. And when the indirect impacts of this are accounted for, then we could be looking at up to 10,000 jobs lost in Wales. First Minister, what assessment can you make of the impact that such losses would have, and what would be your message to the people of Wales about how such a calamitous conclusion can be avoided?

Thank you for the question again. The clarity and the choice that faces all of us, and the impact on this place and the communities that we serve—. It is a matter of fact not opinion that Wales has been short-changed by the shared prosperity fund. The manifesto promises that were made in two Conservative UK manifestos that there would be a penny-for-penny, pound-for-pound replacement of former EU funds have not been kept. And this Conservative group have been cheerleaders for Wales being short-changed. More than £1 billion should have come to Wales for Wales to decide. And more than that, of course, there is a pledge to restore the powers and money that comes from the leader of the UK Labour Party. I look forward to seeing that taken forward, not just in the election, but what it will then mean for what we are able to do, to reinvest in high streets, to reinvest in the skills programmes we've previously funded. That is a vision well worth fighting for, compared to the reality of thousands more job losses, public expenditure being squeezed, and unfunded tax pledges, yet again, being made by the Conservative Party, and all in addition to the continuing pledge for a further assault on devolution. The comments of the current Secretary of State for Wales yesterday were shameful—to say that the Tories want to introduce a Bill to take away all powers over speed limits in Wales, because they do not run this place. They have not been chosen by the people of Wales at the ballot box to come here. I'm proud to have fought for devolution to be created, proud to have made the case, in my younger life, proud to be here now as the First Minister. Choices made here for devolved areas of responsibility will continue to be made here, with a UK Labour Government. We all know that that is under threat if the Tories are ever allowed near the levers of power yet again across the UK.

As you will know, First Minister, every UK Government has been defeated due to its economic record, which has left us with higher taxes, higher national debt and higher unemployment. As we have seen recently, a Keir Starmer Government—sorry, Llywydd, a Sir Keir Starmer Government; whatever else he is, the man is still a knight—will mean higher taxes for ordinary men and women throughout Wales. [Interruption.]

I can't hear the Member, sorry. I'm going to ask some people to be a bit more quiet than they are. Joel James.

Thank you, Llywydd. With this in mind, Minister, what have you made of this impact on Wales and the Welsh economy? Thank you.

Well, the truth is that, at the end of this Parliament, living standards have fallen for the first time on record across the UK. It is not a coincidence that the UK Conservative Government has been in charge through that time after the previous decade. As Carolyn Thomas reminded us, more than 14 years of austerity have had an impact on the economy as well as public services. And in this last term, the economy across the UK has flatlined, and other economies who've had the same international challenges have not had the same results. We are paying the price for Conservative economic mismanagement. Boris Johnson, Liz Truss, Rishi Sunak—the villains of the piece for the position that we now face and it's why it's so important to turn a page.

And I will just deal with the point about taxes. It is manifestly dishonest to claim that taxes are planned to rise in the way the Conservatives have been going about it. Even the senior civil servant in the Treasury has debunked the outrageous and dishonest claims made by the Conservative Party. [Interruption.]

I now can't hear the First Minister. Please, can we be a bit more quiet?

And if you want to stand behind the manifestly dishonest claims that have been made, people will see them. They will vote at the ballot box on 4 July. And I look forward to a new start for Wales with two Labour Governments working together for Wales and Britain, and I believe people here in Wales will vote for that.

Questions now from the party leaders. The leader of the Welsh Conservatives, Andrew R.T. Davies.  

Thank you, Presiding Officer. Last week, First Minister, there was a vote on the floor of the Senedd. Various colleagues of yours and, indeed, your good self, have called it a 'gimmick', a 'stunt' and an 'odd question to ask'. But the expression of the Senedd last week didn't give you its confidence. You lost a vote of no confidence here in the Senedd. Was it a serious debate, or was it a 'gimmick', as you've been calling it all week? 

I take very seriously the debate that took place last week, and the vote that came from it. I think a lot about the institution that I have been proud to fight for, to campaign for and to vote for in not just the referenda, but in subsequent elections. I regret the fact that last week we weren't able to respect the normal traditions on pairing and the conventions that allow the democracy at the ballot box to be respected. But the vote took place, and the outcome is the outcome. I now need to look at the future and what that means for the few weeks I've been the First Minister, and the way in which I want to lead my country into the future, and the need to build confidence across this Chamber and acceptance of the reality that I am stood here as the First Minister, needing to work with different people to make the institution work. For what we have done in devolution, it has required different people to work together.

Last week, we celebrated Wales becoming the second best recycling nation on earth. That is a deliberate choice we have made in the Government—partnerships within this place and outside it—for it to happen. We can be really proud of what we have done in devolution, and I certainly am. So, I am committed to behaving in a way that allows this institution to carry on meeting the needs of people in Wales, to respect the choices they make at the ballot box, and to think about all the things we can still do to make Wales an even better place for all the communities that we are privileged to represent in this place. 

First Minister, last week you went from this Chamber and gave an interview. You questioned me in that interview—the time that I took off for my illness. I was told at one point in that illness to put my affairs in order, First Minister. Your deputy also questioned that on Politics Wales and highlighted it. The chair of the Labour group went on Sharp End last night and cited my absence here as well from illness. I can tell you I was ill, and I had numerous interventions from hospital doctors and other clinicians. To go out from that debate last week and accuse me of not honouring the pairing system and then citing my own illness is the lowest of low. Now, it is a fact, First Minister, that, in confidence votes—in confidence votes—all Members would be expected to vote. There is the facility in this institution to have hybrid voting, to have proxy voting and in-person voting. And those are three options that would have been available to any Member. You have subsequently said that those two Members who were absent last week would have voted for you. Are you convinced that they would have cast their vote for you, First Minister? 

I think we need to take a step back and to reflect on some of the facts. It is a fact that, in previous confidence votes, there have been pairs. I can tell you that directly. In March last year, when the Conservatives and Plaid Cymru voted on a confidence motion against Eluned Morgan, I made clear my position in full support for the job Eluned Morgan was doing, but I did that remotely, because I was paired for the debate. I was in America, leading a trade mission. So, confidence votes do have pairs around them. That is an established convention.

On the second point, around what had happened, I was, I think, referring to the facts. The fact is that, for around about three months, we paired in every instance on every vote, and it was the right thing to do, because I accept completely that you were not well, not well enough to take part, not well enough to turn on a screen. And that's as it should be. It's exactly as it should be. But that didn't take place last week.

Now, it's not for us to have a running commentary on the two people who are not well. It's really important we think about that. That isn't just an issue for my own political group, it is an issue for us as an institution. I want those people to be able to come back, when they're well and able to do so, to be reintegrated not into just my own political grouping but actually within the institution. I think a lot about the choices I've made in trying to protect other people, in trying to make sure there's room for those people to have a route back, because I think that matters. And it's why I've been prepared to take blows and to not respond to different things that have been said, because that's part of my job in being a leader.

So, it's how I have behaved, and it's how I will behave, and I think everyone should reflect on not just what was done last week with the vote, but, actually, everything around it and the comments that were made as well. It is a responsibility for all of us. And in the future, I will want my group to carry on, where people are ill, to make sure that pairs are provided in all votes of consequence, as we have done in the past.

On the example you gave, I believe Standing Orders indicate that if you're out of the country you can't vote anyway, you can't, then, so you couldn't have voted in that vote anyway, so that's a very poor example to use.

But it is a fact that there were three different modes of voting that were available to those Members if they were incapacitated and unable to come in here. I put the question to you—[Interruption.] I put the question to you—. I appreciate the—. I forget what role you have at the moment, the Member for Swansea West. But the point I am making to you is that there are three options that were available to those Members to vote. They chose not to exercise their confidence in you, First Minister.

The issue you have here is there was a vote in this Chamber on confidence in you as First Minister. You and senior London Labour figures have chosen to tarnish this institution by saying, 'It is of no consequence; it is irrelevant.' In fact, your comments around the referendum, for example, when it comes to issues around the current UK Government—. Having two referenda for devolution should mean that there is a level of respect for not just the institution but our individual role as Members.

The previous First Minister is on the record as saying if a motion

'gets supported on the floor of the Senedd then that will be the democratic will of the Senedd itself.'

You clearly aren't taking the view of the Senedd into account when you're not respecting that vote last week. It is causing huge damage, reputational damage, to this institution. You need to act on that vote, and that's what I'm asking you today: what are you going to do to respect that vote that was taken here last week that withdrew the confidence of the Welsh Parliament from your tenure as First Minister?

I go back again in saying of course I take proceedings in this place seriously. I always have done. I always have done, and I always will. I've been the First Minister for a limited period of weeks. I take seriously what was said in the debate and the fact that people cast their vote. I'm rightly concerned, I believe, in the fact that two of our Members were not able to do so. That is the point, Andrew R.T. Davies: they were not able to do so.

Actually, the commentary that runs behind it, trying to second guess how unwell those Members are, I think is deeply damaging. Again, think again on what those people are now listening to: not the opportunity to come back and be reintegrated into this Parliament when they are well enough to do so, but actually wanting to reach judgments in their name. I don't think that helps anyone, and I don't think it reflects well on the argument that you're making.

I do believe that the proceedings of this place should be respected. I do believe that the two referenda that have gone into creating the powers for this place should be respected. It's why I'm so genuinely offended by what the Conservative Secretary of State for Wales has had to say about wanting to take powers away, when the truth is he simply disagrees with the approach that we have taken. The idea that there is a general law and order reservation that allows a Conservative Minister to override the will of this place—it beggars belief that's been said, and it has been in the election campaign, in addition to the drivers Bill proposal. How can anyone come to this place and say our proceedings should be respected when that's the manifesto that you're supporting? The leader of the Welsh Conservative group supporting a proposal to take away powers from this place because you haven't won an election. Now, that can't be the way that the future of this place works; it's just can't be.

So, I will go on making the argument for the future we could have, the future I want us to have after 4 July, the future that I will be happy to argue for right up to and all the way through to the Senedd elections in 2026, a reformed Senedd that will be returned by the people of Wales, and not just the record we'll have of the next two years, but the period of devolution, and what we have done for our country in partnership with others in this place and beyond. That's what I will be doing, and I'm very proud to carry on making that case.

Leader of Plaid Cymru, Rhun ap Iorwerth. 

Diolch yn fawr iawn, Llywydd. Now, since the Senedd passed that motion of no confidence, Labour Members have sought to excuse it away, even, yes, saying that it's other Members from opposition parties who are to blame for insisting on exercising our right to vote. The pairing issue is an absolute red herring. The First Minister knows that and he needs to stop pulling the wool over people's eyes. There's only ever been one vote of no confidence in a First Minister before. That was 24 years ago and there was certainly no pairing on that day. 

Now, we've even had the Labour social media team using the party's credit card to pay for ads that imply that opposition parties should somehow never agree with one another, even though Labour and the Conservatives vote together all the time here in this Senedd, and Labour were perfectly happy to link up with the Tories on a recent no confidence issue in Scotland. He can't have it both ways. It's a pretty hollow-sounding moral crusade from the First Minister. 

Now, let's get back, shall we, to the substance of this issue? The First Minister wants a new start, but it doesn't work like that, does it? I'm sure Rishi Sunak would love to have a new start too, but I'm not going to forget 14 years of destructive Tory policies. And yes, the First Minister may want to wish away the £200,000 donation scandal, where the Welsh public clearly think he's shown such poor judgment, but he can't. But, for any kind of reset, he must first address the problem. Does an apology in any way fit in with his idea of a new start?   

So, there are, I think, three points to respond to. The first is: of course, I regret the way that the last three months have been covered and reported, and I regret the impact of the choice I made within all of the rules at the time, and I would not want either myself or any of my colleagues to have had to go through that again. I recognise that there has been real damage caused to a range of people in this place. It's why I've agreed immediately to an internal review within my own party to look at how we run our affairs. It's why I've also asked the Standards of Conduct Committee on a cross-party basis to consider the rules that should apply to all of us, regardless of which party we're in. And that is me taking seriously the position that we find ourselves in.

And I think, on your second point around pairing, pairing is not a red herring. The pairing that takes place is to maintain the democratic judgment of the public at the ballot box, and that is what pairing achieves. When you go back to 24 years ago, the arithmetic was very different in the Chamber. If pairing had taken place in the way it has done and normally does, then, actually, we'd have had a different outcome, but the vote took place and the numbers are the numbers on the day.

And I don't think it is an extraordinary thing to want to have a new start for a job that I've been in for two months, that I've been proud to not just win a leadership contest, but actually to come into this place with the support of people from across the Chamber and, indeed, within my own group. And it's important to recognise that we came together after—. Internal leadership contests are difficult, but I recognise the way that different people have come together to want the Government to work, and to want to do it in a way that is unified, not just for our party, but actually the job we have to do for the country. And within that, I know that the leader of Plaid Cymru points and claims about us regularly voting with others. Last week, the vote to take down a Welsh Labour First Minister took place. The attack on the Government that took place was a co-operation between his Plaid Cymru and the Conservatives. That's what happened. And I don't think there's any challenge in pointing that out, as we go through the heightened politics of a general election campaign and as what you might want to do in the future.

I'm interested in how this Government works and functions and delivers on the manifesto we have already been elected on, and the promises I've made, as the leader, as to how we can improve the country. That's what I'm interested in doing; it's what I'm committed to do.

I wish the First Minister could see himself, I really, really do. And I'll read his words back to him:

'I regret the way that the last three months have been covered and reported'.

'I regret the way that the last three months have been covered and reported'.

So, it's the way this has been covered, it's the way it's been reported. I'm a former journalist, a member of the National Union of Journalists. Are you blaming journalists for this? Are you blaming opposition Members for the way that we voted in that vote last week?

What we have here is a First Minister's judgment repeatedly being called into question. We've got the donation from a convicted polluter, but then there was the issue of how a Minister was recently sacked too; one of those not here last week. It's been confirmed today that no formal leak inquiry was held before the First Minister decided to sack Hannah Blythyn. In a letter to the Public Accounts and Public Administration Committee, the Welsh Government's director of propriety and ethics also suggests that no proper investigation was held under the ministerial code either. Sacking a Minister is a serious matter, but it seems that the normal safeguards of natural justice weren't afforded to the former Deputy Minister in this instance. I think we need an independent investigation here to determine whether the First Minister did act with the required due diligence and within the rules that govern decisions of this significance. At the very least, will the First Minister explain on what evidence and on whose advice was he acting when he did sack Hannah Blythyn?

One of the challenges in making choices as a leader is you have to not just think about what the right choice is, but you also have to consider that it's only you that can make the decision, and you have to consider and balance a range of different consequences. In coming to a decision, I did take advice from the Permanent Secretary about the process, to make sure I was acting within the ministerial code. Publishing evidence will actually be something that I don't think helps people involved and engaged around this, and I have always been trying to protect other people from the consequences of what takes place if unredacted information is published fully. I still think that's the right choice to make. It makes my life difficult, but it's the right thing to do, and that's what your job is as a leader. So, the redacted information has been published, the evidence, such as it is, is relatively straightforward, and that's why there wasn't a need to go through an additional process. That's the advice I took from the Permanent Secretary. I'm confident I've acted within the ministerial code and the Cabinet handbook. And if you think this is a route to helping the Member, who isn't able to take part in Senedd business at present, I think you should reflect again on where this leads and the different responsibilities we have. I do not think this is a helpful way to want to reintegrate that Member, as I wish to do so, into the active business of this place.

Everybody's meant to reflect apart from himself, it seems. Now, I can't let this question session pass either without highlighting some troubling attitudes from Labour towards the Senedd in recent days. The First Minister, we know, is totally dismissive of the democratic view of this Senedd, as seen in that vote last week, and the contempt, frankly, from Labour's London headquarters was in full show on Sunday by Emily Thornberry—a senior member of Keir Starmer's team, would-be Attorney-General. It was as dismissive an attitude towards this Senedd and its procedures as I have ever heard, to be honest. But perhaps the most revealing interview was that given by transport Minister Ken Skates on Politics Wales. 'The priority for the Labour Welsh Government', he said, 'was to support the UK Labour election campaign.' Now, I want to get rid of the Tories more than anyone, but surely their priority in Government should always be to serve the people and communities of Wales, rather than their own electoral interests. Doesn't this make a mockery of Keir Starmer's claim to put country before party?

No, and if you look at what we have done just since First Minister's questions last week, I've been part of the manifesto process within my party and I'm confident that we will put forward an offer that will make a significant positive difference for Wales and Britain. I'm confident that will help us to gain the confidence of the people of Wales at the ballot box on 4 July, and all of the opportunities that will open up for us.

More than that, just in this last week, I've been meeting my duties to the Government and the people of Wales, not only the announcements that we've made, but the progress we're making. So, I earlier pointed out that Wales is now the second-best recycling nation on earth: no mean achievement given where we started at the start of our devolution journey. I've done the right thing and done my duty in attending the D-day events in Normandy—a real privilege to do so and to see the extraordinary sacrifice of others. I've had the work with the British Medical Association and the health Secretary, on making sure there is an offer that all three branches of the BMA who are in dispute are recommending that offer. That is not an easy thing to do, and we've managed to do that by working through all of the noise in public, the serious work that has gone on with the health Secretary to get to that point. That will make a real difference to people in every community across Wales, if that strike action permanently comes to an end.

Yesterday, I was in Port Talbot, yet again making the case for jobs in the steel sector, not just in Port Talbot, but in Shotton, Trostre, Llanwern and Catnic in Caerphilly as well. Making the case for the company to look again at where we could be in just a few weeks' time. The reality is that those jobs do not have to go; there is a different way of getting the best deal for steel. I was proud to be there with the local Member, David Rees, proud to be there with the economy Secretary Jeremy Miles, and two Members who could be part of a future UK Labour Government.

We have responsibilities in the here and now that we're meeting, and I'm also absolutely positive and confident and make no apology for looking at what we could do for our country in just a few weeks' time with a different partnership for Wales and Britain. I believe people will vote for that partnership, and I look forward to the verdict of the people. 

Thank you for the question.

Welsh Ministers and officials engage with the UK Government through a range of bilateral and multilateral fora on a range of issues to try and help tackle poverty and improve outcomes for low-income families. We are always keen to stress the importance of tackling poverty in all its guises as our priority. Unfortunately, we do not believe that the current UK Government has been a positive partner in reducing child poverty.

We know, don't we, First Minister, that 29 per cent of children in Wales are living in poverty. That's one of the highest rates in the UK, and we've debated here in the past how Labour in Wales scrapped the 2020 goal of eradicating child poverty, and how we have a child poverty strategy without statutory targets, but as you say, the situation here has been made worse by the UK Government, particularly the Conservatives' cruel two-child benefit cap on families, which leaves the poorest families thousands of pounds out of pocket and adversely affecting more than one in 10 children in Wales. Now, unbelievably, Sir Keir Starmer has said that he won't be scrapping the cap, and at the same time he's saying that he is committed to providing over £200 billion for the Trident nuclear project. Now, that clearly shows, does it not, that the UK Labour Party's priorities are actually in weapons of mass destruction and not supporting struggling families? Are those really your priorities as well, First Minister?

I think that's an extraordinary analogy to draw. I think when you look at where we will be with a manifesto that will be published in the coming days across the UK, with, as usual, a Welsh Labour manifesto as well to accompany it, I think you will see real ambition for the future of families, to grow the economy, to have a positive partnership to provide the high-quality jobs that we could and should have in Wales. You'll also see ambition to ensure that people don't have to live with the indignity of low pay, what that will mean across a range of different sectors, and I think you'll see a genuine reforming approach to what has happened in the mess that is our current UK-wide benefit system.

I think, when the manifesto is published, the Member will have good cause to think again about the ambition of what a future UK Labour Government could do, in partnership with this Government, in addition to what we already do to directly put money into people's pockets: the way that we look to help and support families beyond that, not just the universal free school meals that we should all be proud of—more than 20 million of them delivered here in Wales—but the help we provide, whether it's prescriptions or a whole range of other areas, including school uniform as well. We do those things deliberately to make a practical difference. Our means to make that difference needs to increase, and we need a different partnership with a UK Government that understands why child poverty is a scourge, with the commitment to address and tackle it, as indeed the last Labour Government did, in lifting hundreds of thousands of children out of poverty. I'm proud of what we did in the past. I'll be prouder still to play a part in making a difference for children living in poverty here today.

Good afternoon, First Minister. A few of us have raised the issue of child poverty here in the Siambr, and I just wanted to perhaps take another angle on it, which is linking the green agenda with tackling child poverty here in Wales. The Children's Commissioner for Wales calls, in her latest report, that we should be providing free public transport for all under-18-year-olds as part of the child poverty plan. The Youth Parliament here in Wales has also supported free public transport as well, as a way of promoting the use of public transport throughout the whole of Wales. And, finally, Scotland has shown the tangible benefits, with its free bus scheme for five to 21-year-olds generating over 100 million journeys in its first year. So, First Minister, would you agree that providing free public transport is a means of tackling child poverty, and therefore will you do it? Diolch yn fawr iawn.

There are many good ideas that we would like to take up now and in the future. There are also things we are already doing today, of course. So, there is a range of schemes offering discounted and free travel for children and young people that we constantly keep under review. We have discounted bus tickets for under-22s through our MyTravelPass scheme. We also have free travel on rail services for under-16s in a number of circumstances where they're accompanied by a fare-paying adult in Wales already. But more than that, contactless pay-as-you-go ticketing across the south Wales metro area will be delivered later this year.

I'm interested in how we have more means available to us. I would like to be able to deliver on a whole range of areas, but I need the resources for us to do so, and we've just gone through an incredibly painful process to get a budget that balances. I think, in the future, we may be able to do something along the lines of what the Member suggests, but I need the resource that I don't have at present. And in the pragmatic choice, we've made choices about how and where we target our resources to make the biggest possible difference. That's the budget that we've passed. I look forward to a different horizon, with greater hope and greater means to achieve our objectives in the future, and I look forward to seeing if that will be enabled by the public votes on 4 July.

Yes. I will set out the Government’s legislative priorities in my July legislative statement. The annual debate under Standing Orders, covering policy objectives and the legislative programme, will provide further opportunities for Members to consider an update on progress.

The turmoil that has faced your Government in recent weeks has made people question whether you would stick to your word, First Minister. There are many, vastly important Bills that this Government has promised to deliver, from bus reform to coal tip safety, and from tackling homelessness to the Welsh language. But people are nervous because, since you took office, your Government has backtracked on reforms to council tax, 20 mph and changes to school holidays. You've signalled, time and again, that brave, progressive changes won't be made if it makes you and your Government more unpopular. So, what certainty can we have that you will bring forward these Bills and that they won't be watered down or be made less ambitious in any attempt to preserve your own leadership?

The reason why we've reviewed a range of the areas of activity is partly because we've made pledges to do so: 20 mph is a good example. We'd already pledged to have a review of the implementation and to see whether we need to make any sort of changes, and we're listening to the public in doing so. I don't see that as a weakness; it's a strength. And if you look at the first set of data around the changes in the speed limits, it does show, as we said, that there are fewer casualties. It's about the refinement of that, to make sure we're getting it right in all the different areas after more than six months of experience.

If you look at what we have been doing, and the legislative programme, we're actually creating more space to make sure we can deliver on the radical reforming legislation that will come forward in that legislative programme. It will be a strength to see the space given over and the ability to deliver on a whole range of areas. Now, I won't go through every single one of them, because I have a legislative statement in early July to do so, but I believe that the Member will see the ambition of this Government to radical reform that makes a real difference with and for the people of Wales, that goes back to our manifesto and looks to deliver it. We'll be there, bright as ever, and I will be proud to lead a Government that will actually deliver that and make the difference that we have promised to do so.

Since being elected, First Minister, you've u-turned on reform to the school year, delayed the sustainable farming scheme, and attempted to change the rhetoric around the default 20 mph policy, without actually changing anything. So, this is a Labour Government so bereft of new ideas that it is now changing policies that it itself introduced that we've been campaigning against. So, thank you. Wouldn't you agree with me, First Minister, that this is a Welsh Labour Government out of ideas and led by a First Minister who is hanging on by a thread?

Well, it's interesting that the Member now decries action that he was asking for. The fact is that, last week, we had the first round-table on taking forward the sustainable farming scheme. We are committed to a scheme that supports high-quality food and drink production and meets our obligations for the climate and nature emergencies that we face. That is what we are doing, and we're giving ourselves the space to do so.

And when it then comes to the rest of his comments, I admire the fact that he's advertising for a future vacancy to his group. I actually think that when the public come to vote, they will look for a positive partnership for Wales and Britain. They will look to what his party has done. They will look to the way that his party has assaulted devolution, taken our money and taken our powers, and reflect that that cannot be the right answer for Wales. I look forward to what we will do in the future. I look forward to the Member retaining his place in the benches of opposition, where he belongs.

First Minister, the Welsh Labour Government was resoundingly re-elected by the people of Wales in 2021, to deliver a stronger, fairer and greener Wales. First Minister, as you contemplate your first legislative statement, which you're due to deliver to the Senedd before the summer recess, on behalf of my constituents in Islwyn, can I ask you to consider how the Welsh Labour Government can best legislate to improve their lives? The proposed bus reform Bill is critical and crucial to improving public transport throughout Islwyn, but in particular to the surrounding communities of Pontllanfraith and Blackwood, served only by bus. This is to be placed firmly at the doors of the policy of the UK Government. The utterly failed Thatcherite system of deregulation from the 1980s must be consigned to the scrapheap by this Welsh Parliament.

The coal tip safety Bill is a positive step forward in addressing those industrial scars on our environmental landscape, albeit still at present totally unsupported by the UK Tory Government. However, as we have seen in communities like Ynysddu in Islwyn, with very strong concerns around the Bedwas tip proposals, coal tip remediation cannot be done at any cost. So, First Minister, with both the bus Bill and the coal tip safety Bill, what dialogue will your Government have with progressive authorities throughout the rest of the United Kingdom, including the new UK Government, after this critical general election? Thank you.

The Member sets out again the case for reform that we have committed to in the past. I look forward to delivering a legislative statement that shows how we will take forward measures that we are committed to. On the bus Bill and the coal tip safety Bill, those won't be the technical titles of the Bills, but both of those will deliver a real difference, I believe, in providing a legislative statement to allow us to invest in a future that makes sense, because we do know that, for all of our investment in rail, it is making a real difference in the communities served by rail. There are many others, including in my own constituency, but also all around Wales, that are only served by bus. We need greater sense in how the buses are regulated and how we invest in a system that is truly sustainable. Work has already taken place in some other parts of the UK. I look forward to working with a future UK Labour Government to do so on the bus Bill, and indeed on coal tip safety. The legislation needs to come alongside the willingness to work together and to recognise some of the responsibilities are reserved, some are for us to deliver. A partnership with willing people who recognise the legacy we are now dealing with is exactly what we need for her community and many others around Wales.

The Welsh Government is committed to ensuring high-quality healthcare provision for children and young people in Wales. A comprehensive range of policies and programmes, implemented across the Government, plays a pivotal role in improving health outcomes and promoting child health and well-being for children right across Wales.

Thank you so much for that response. I was recently contacted by a constituent with a plea for help regarding a heartbreaking case. Three-year-old Luna from Chepstow has recently been diagnosed with a rare and life-limiting condition known as MPS VI. Her specialist doctor and Aneurin Bevan University Health Board recommended enzyme replacement therapy as the most viable treatment option to prolong life and maintain a good standard of living. Whilst a funding request for the treatment was initially deemed not cost-effective by the relevant authorities, I was delighted to learn that, at the end of last week, Luna's family officially received approval that ERT will be provided to her through NHS Wales. They are of course absolutely over the moon; however, this does not come without an official appeal against the authority's decisions by Luna's doctor and her family having to campaign for Luna to receive this treatment at an incredibly stressful time. Whilst speaking with campaigners, I discovered differences in treatment for different strains of the condition. The Welsh Government have previously given approval for MPS I to IV to be treated with ERT in Wales. However, MPS V and VI are not as yet officially covered. So, First Minister, can you commit today that the Welsh Government will look into future options for expanding ERT treatment for MPS V and VI as a first point of call, so future families that are going through this do not have to campaign for treatment for their loved ones? Thank you.

I don't think I can at First Minister's questions give commitments on individual conditions and individual treatments. I do, though, recognise the Member's right to raise matters on behalf of her constituents. What I'd ask is that she would write to the Cabinet Secretary for health with the details, so we can understand if there are policy issues to address.

At the start of my time as a Member some time ago in 2011, we were still having debates in this place about individual patient funding requests for treatment, and how consistent those were across the country. It's the reason why, during my tenure as the health Minister, we introduced the new treatment fund that is still making a difference in making sure that new evidence-based treatments are available on a more consistent basis, and, crucially, on a more rapid basis across NHS Wales.

I can't tell from the information the Member has given, and nor could I realistically, whether this is an issue that falls within an individual patient request or whether it's something that could be covered by our approach to ensuring that evidence-based treatments are available. That's why I'd ask her to write to the Cabinet Secretary for health so we can get a properly considered response to her and indeed any other families who may be in the same position.

Thank you. The Welsh Government is taking an integrated catchment approach to combat river pollution, co-operating with all sectors involved. We work closely with other arms of Government, regulators and others, including through our river pollution summits. The next summit is in July, which I will co-chair with the Cabinet Secretary for Climate Change and Rural Affairs.

Thank you for that answer. River pollution is a problem across Wales, with the Wye and Usk having serious problems with pollution. With the River Tawe, we have raw sewage discharge, agricultural pollution and microplastics. Agriculture is a leading cause of water problems globally. Fertilisers, pesticides and animal waste from farms and livestock operations can easily wash into rivers during rainfall, contaminating the rivers. Excess nitrogen and phosphorus in water is a significant threat to water quality. These nutrients can lead to algal blooms including toxic blue-green algae, which can harm both people and wildlife. I'm requesting the Government commissions an independent review of river pollution, starting with the Tawe, Usk and Wye.

The Member raises an important point that I believe goes across party lines. Our challenge is how we take effective action to reduce river pollution that is an active problem for biodiversity within our rivers, but also affects land use as well. It's why the river pollution summit is such an important process. I've seen the evidence on the apportionment of phosphorus loading into rivers, and the evidence, which has been peer reviewed, does show it's rural land use that has the biggest impact. It's why we've got to have a conversation around this, not just with people that make use of rural land, but, actually, with a range of other sectors too. That's part of what the river pollution summit process allows us to do.

We're also going through Natural Resources Wales's fourth cycle of river basin management plans. That's a key mechanism for improving water quality. I do think, as we go through those, and we get to draft stages, it'd be worth having a conversation with the Cabinet Secretary for Climate Change and Rural Affairs about whether there's an opportunity for independent peer review at that point around the plans. That's something that I think is well worth having a conversation about, between the Member and the Cabinet Secretary, to understand how we get some objectivity into not just what the plans are, but how effective they're likely to be and then how they get reviewed as they are implemented.

First Minister, there is a worrying lack of accessibility when it comes to reporting pollution instances to Natural Resources Wales. Numerous constituents have contacted me about difficulty in reaching their enforcement teams, especially via the phone, with one person, when they finally got through, being told by Natural Resources Wales, 'We physically don't have the people here to respond to e-mails or answer telephone calls.' This communication barrier is undermining public confidence in the regulator's ability to tackle water pollution. So, can you outline what plans does the Welsh Government have to support NRW to address these communication issues, so when river pollution is seen, it can be reported and dealt with in a timely manner?

I think it's a fair point the Member raises about how members of the public can contact NRW and actually have a response that demonstrates that the issue they raise has been taken seriously, and then the ability of NRW as the regulator to be able to act on that information as well. There are always challenges about resources. It's an undeniable fact that, over the last 14 years, we have taken money out of services we'd rather invest in. I'm interested in what a new partnership would look like, but, equally, how we get the best out of the resources we have, which I think is really the Member's point in the Member's question. I'd be grateful if he'd write to the Cabinet Secretary for rural affairs and climate change to understand the particular issues his constituents have, to see if there is more we can do with NRW to make sure they're able to respond to the concerns that his constituents will raise. I'd expect that if his constituents are raising issues, then others will have similar concerns that we'd want to understand how we can take forward.

I don't have data for Monmouthshire specifically, but comparing Aneurin Bevan health board data from April 2022 to March 2024, the number of children’s pathways on referral-to-treatment waiting lists over two years has reduced by nearly 78 per cent, despite total waits for children’s pathways rising just over 2 per cent for the same period of time. So, progress is being made.

Thank you, First Minister. I know you would agree with me that children waiting for treatment should be prioritised, certainly for certain conditions, but recent casework is showing that that isn't the case in my constituency. A young boy who has been experiencing knee pain was advised by a senior physiotherapist that he had significant damage to his ACL and MCL ligaments and needed an MRI scan. His GP also was concerned at the boy's lack of movement and made a referral to the orthopaedic specialist. The family received a letter that their son was on the waiting list. However, even though the boy was classed as urgent, there would be a 43-week wait time for an initial appointment. First Minister, I was shocked to hear this, and I've obviously written to the health board. My concern is that timely and fast treatment should be a priority for young children who are in a phase of physical development. They need to be dealt with quickly, as long-term consequences could be profound for them. So, what action is the Government taking to assess the scale of this problem and what is your Government going to do about it?

Again, I can't comment on the individual circumstances. I'm pleased that the Member has written to the health board directly about it to understand if the wait times are accurate, or, indeed, what could be done, bearing in mind the condition he describes. There is always a challenge about a number of the different things we need to do in and for the health service. One is the ministerial oversight, and the Member will know that the Cabinet Secretary for health regularly scrutinises waiting time performance in health boards, and actually is a key part of driving improvement within that. The other parts are resources, and in our budget, the Member will know that the NHS was the biggest area of additional spend, with a rise of more than 4 per cent. And the Member knows that the relative figure in England was about 1 per cent. So, we are putting, within our reducing real-terms budgets, more money into the NHS, but it doesn't mean that it's flush with resources, because actually, most of that spend goes on staff. 

That comes on to my second point, which is about why it's been so important to have an offer that can get the three groups of doctors back to work and resolve the industrial action. You need your staff in the service, able to treat and look after people. But alongside that, not just to pay, there's a commitment to reform and productivity. It's a point that the Cabinet Secretary has regularly made, and she's right: we need to make sure that the productivity levels that we saw before the pandemic are reacquired and then further improved. That isn't just about having enough people to do the job; it's how they work alongside other people to reduce the long waits we have got, and then to get away from putting lots of our resources into reducing waiting times almost always for hospital-based treatment and putting them into the service we want, with more investment further upstream in primary care and preventative services to have a genuinely sustainable service into the future. That is exactly what we are doing. We need the resources and we need the reform and we need to have staff who are in work and being productive around that to do the job that they want to do as well. 

And finally, question 8, Luke Fletcher.

While I have not directly been involved in these discussions, our officials are in regular contact with Bridgend County Borough Council. The Welsh Government awarded a £2.65 million grant fund to the council for remedial works on affected homes. A fully accredited contractor has been appointed and mobilisation works are well under way to address the issues of very real concern.

Thank you for that answer, First Minister. I understand that Warmworks has been commissioned to deal with the insulation repair scheme, but residents in Caerau in the Llynfi valley have been contacting me with concerns. They've lost faith that anything will be sorted given the amount of time that this has gone on for. They're concerned that there's no talk of compensation despite residents needing to fork out thousands of pounds on repairs to their homes. This is, of course, a saga that has gone on for over a decade. One constituent has told me that her daughter is 12, so for almost her entire life she's lived in a home plagued with damp and has known nothing else. I wouldn't accept these conditions, you wouldn't accept these conditions, so can I get a commitment from you today that the Government will provide whatever support is needed to expedite this repair process in partnership with BCBC to put this right, but also to consider compensation for residents who entered this Government's scheme in good faith but ended up getting burnt?

It's worth just reflecting on the history and the reality of what the affected group of people have gone through. This was funding on the Arbed 2 scheme in 2014-15. Of course, Arbed 1 was introduced in the One Wales Government, so this was building on the work that was done, and most homes under that scheme have seen a real benefit. However, where the work is not done appropriately, it does have a very real impact on conditions in the home.

The external wall insulation that was installed in Caerau was funded by the UK Government's community energy saving programme. The real issue at the time was that there was no requirement for guarantees for the quality of the work. That has meant that the people haven't had an individual remedy to go back to the installer; it's why the council, through its own resources and with a Welsh Government grant, is now undertaking the remedial work. That was agreed previously by the then Minister for Climate Change, Julie James, who still retains responsibility for housing, and the work is now being undertaken.

It is important that the work is done and done to high standards, and we then need to see if there is a future remedy for the individual home owners. The challenge always is that if either the council or the Government provide additional resource for the people affected, that's resource that can't go into other areas. But I recognise that it's a very real injustice for those people, so I'd want to keep an open conversation with residents, the council and, indeed, our own housing department. But the priority must be to make sure that the work is done to a proper standard and people receive the benefit they thought they were signing up to.

Thank you, First Minister.

The next item is the business statement and announcement, and I call on the Trefnydd to make that statement—Jane Hutt. 

Thank you, Llywydd. Two oral statements have been added to today's agenda, namely on the context for and approach to the next spending review period, and on the six goals for urgent and emergency care—two years on. Draft business for the next three weeks is set out on the business statement and announcement, which is available to Members electronically. 

Trefnydd, I'd like to call for a statement from the Cabinet Secretary for climate change on household recycling. I'm delighted that due to the hard work of residents across Wales, Wales has one of the best recycling rates in the world. That's great news, but we also need to make sure that recycling's easy for people and that local systems work. The Labour-led Denbighshire council has just spent millions on scrapping its popular, easy-to-use and high performing blue wheelie bin co-mingled or recycling collection service, and instead it's replaced it with a very unpopular Trolibocs system, which has been making recycling a nightmare for local residents, and it's cut down the residual waste collections to every four weeks. 

Now, the roll-out, I have to say, has been an absolute shambles. Waste collections have been missed. There's bin clutter all over the streets and litter everywhere too. And it simply isn't good enough. So, can I urge the Welsh Government, instead of promoting kerbside recycling only, to promote simpler household recycling systems such as that which was previously used in Denbighshire, to require bins also to be collected at least once a fortnight in the interest of public health, and can we have a statement that confirms that that is the approach that the Welsh Government will take? Thank you.

Thank you very much, Darren Millar. Yes, I'm glad you welcome this fantastic announcement that Wales is now second in the world for recycling—testament, I would say, to the partnership working. It's partnership working that's supported our journey, including the vital role of our local authorities, including Denbighshire County Council, of course, increasing the amount and quality of resources that local authorities collect for recycling. 

Just in terms of the introduction by Denbighshire of their new recycling service, we welcome this introduction. It should put them in a very good position to achieve the 70 per cent minimum target that begins this financial year. And I recognise they launched their new recycling waste service on 3 June. Denbighshire have moved to a service that is in line with the Welsh Government's best practice set out in the collections blueprint. You asked for that to be confirmed. I can do that. But also, just to say, in terms of preparation, Denbighshire have been working on the implementation of a new kerbside sort service for the past couple of years. That's working with their public—the people they represent—in preparation for that 70 per cent minimum recycling rate that came into force in April 2024, and also, implementing our collections blueprint, which is aligned to the new workplace recycling requirements. 

And let's just remember what this is going to achieve for us, for the planet, let alone for Wales. It means that we collect high-quality recycling that can then be fed back into the economy, and Wales's high recycling rate has already contributed to a saving of around 400,000 tonnes of carbon dioxide every year. So, I'm grateful for the question, and that I can put all of that on the record this afternoon. 

Trefnydd, I'd like to request a statement from the Cabinet Secretary for Culture and Social Justice outlining the discussions that have taken place with South Wales Police following the arrest last week of 19 pro-Palestine activists in less than 48 hours. An extensive list of signatories have signed a statement with calls directed at South Wales Police, but also calling on the political establishment to respect the right to protest. One of those arrested in Swansea was a 12-year-old Palestinian child, and many others here in Cardiff are students. The police approach is obviously directed by the cruel UK legislation regarding protests, but I'd like to know the Welsh Government's position on this, and how we ensure that people are able to protest and show support when that is very much needed. 

Diolch yn fawr, Heledd Fychan, and you raise a really important question. Obviously, as a Welsh Government, we have stood up and spoken for and really embraced the right to protest. The right to protest, of course, has been threatened and undermined by UK Government legislation, which, indeed, we resisted. And as you'll recall, when I was in the role of Minister for Social Justice, we addressed those points and the impact it would have on our democratic—. This is about our democratic right to protest, but also, in relation to specific incidents, and you've given an example today, I will ask the Cabinet Secretary for Culture and Social Justice to look into these particular circumstances and situations. And perhaps just to say that we recognise that, throughout not just Wales but across the UK, there are these protests, there's peaceful coming together of people, raising the issue of what is happening in the middle east, and to recognise how important this is to the people who are affected. Because, of course, it's community cohesion and recognising that this is an area where we want to engage with the communities, all the communities that are affected.

Can I also ask for another update from the Welsh Government on the disastrous Trolibocs bin roll-out in Denbighshire? This of course comes within the remit of Denbighshire County Council, however a lot of the funding and guidance for this came from the Welsh Government, including recycling targets, and Denbighshire had a recycling rate of 65.9 per cent under the previous blue-bin system, where the Welsh Government's target is 70 per cent. So, Denbighshire were nearly there in terms of the blue bin, and the disastrous roll-out that has happened within the last week has seen constituents of mine not being able to access—. Their recycling has not been able to be collected in time, when the dates were scheduled, and also, because of the nature of the Trolibocs system, it's allowed recycling and waste to be strewn on the streets because of the delays happening. So, are you convinced that the 70 per cent target can be achieved under the new Trolibocs system, and will you liaise with Denbighshire County Council, in terms of making sure that the 70 per cent can be achieved under the Trolibocs system? And if it is proved that it can't be the case, over time, will you be open to looking at alternative systems that would be both in the best interests of my constituents and hitting that 70 per cent recycling target, which I doubt is going to happen under this current system in the Vale of Clwyd? Thank you.

You have raised this issue before, and, indeed, it's been raised by your colleague Darren Millar this afternoon. What Denbighshire is doing, and we welcome the introduction, as I said, is putting it in a good position to meet that 70 per cent minimum target, which begins this financial year. But any change—any change to a service that impacts people, the residents in an authority, will inevitably experience some teething issues. They have been working on this for the last two years. But the changes mirror what are delivered by neighbouring authorities. Now, you've got colleagues who represent Conwy. It's been implemented successfully there, next door to your authority. So, I think you can have confidence that Denbighshire will implement this and meet the 70 per cent target. And, of course, one has to go back to the fact that Denbighshire have been working in partnership with expert delivery partners, funded through our long-standing programme, which has successfully supported many authorities through these changes. And again, once more, I hope you will welcome—I haven't heard it yet from you, Gareth—the fact that Wales's world-class performance has been acknowledged only in the last week.

I would like to request a statement from the Cabinet Secretary for Economy, Energy and Welsh Language regarding the situation of the Mona Dairy site in my constituency, following the announcement that the company has been placed into the hands of the administrators. We've heard that they've had difficulties in securing adequate funding in the short term to continue to operate, although this new plant, where there has been great investment, has never delivered the pledges, and has never been fully operational.

It's a blow for the local economy, in terms of the loss of that potential, but, of course, it's also a blow to the sector and to the workforce, the 30 and more people, or, rather, the 24 workers and 30 suppliers too. Now, there is a very strong feeling of having been let down. There are questions being asked about where exactly that investment has gone. The Government has been supportive and has invested. We need to understand how we've reached this point, and then, of course, to consider what steps could be taken with the support of Government in order to proceed. And because of that, an urgent statement from the Minister would be very valuable to us on Anglesey. 

Diolch yn fawr, Rhun ap Iorwerth. And I think we all viewed this news with great concern not just for the workforce, but for the local economy and for the community. And we now, obviously, recognise this is very distressing news for employees and suppliers as well of Mona Dairy, and, as you say, their families and the local community. So, just to reassure you, from the Cabinet Secretary for economy and, indeed, the Cabinet Secretary for north Wales, we're closely in contact with the company and we'll support them while they secure the options available to them. 

Thank you, Trefnydd. 

The next statement will be the statement by the Cabinet Secretary for Finance, Constitution and Cabinet Office on the context for and approach to the next spending review period. And therefore, I call on the Cabinet Secretary to make the statement. Rebecca Evans. 

Thank you. I am pleased today to outline the Welsh Government's preparations for the next spending review period and to reflect on the challenging economic and fiscal context, as we try to set our plans for the next few years. We cannot underestimate these challenges. Fourteen years of economic mismanagement by successive Tory UK Governments have led to austerity budget after austerity budget. We’ve had to deal with the fallout of Liz Truss and Kwasi Kwarteng’s disastrous mini-budget, which crashed the economy and sustained double-digit inflation in recent years, which has taken its toll on our already stretched public services.

Overall, our budget is worth £700 million less in real terms than expected at the time of the last UK spending review in 2021. Additional factors, such as the continuing impact of COVID, the war in Ukraine and the cost-of-living crisis have had a huge impact, forcing us to address short-term crises. And the past few years have been characterised by crisis after crisis, and this has limited the opportunity to consider longer term opportunities, which maximise the impact of our available funds. 

We won’t know detail of the next UK Government’s spending plans until after the general election. However, given that our current multi-year funding settlement will end after this financial year, work has begun to develop our plans beyond April 2025. It is in this challenging context and taking stock of the lessons learned, I want to implement a new approach, which will support a medium to long-term fiscal strategy and inform how we decide to spend and raise money in Wales, an approach that includes our statutory responsibilities, drives future budgets and aligns with our priorities as a Government. We want to take a collegiate approach to this work, and, as ever, I welcome ideas and proposals, from wherever they come, in this Siambr and beyond, where there is a clear benefit to Wales. As part of this work, I want to hear from diverse voices, right across our communities. And it's in that spirit that I make today’s statement.

It's important that we recognise the wider context within which we are undertaking these preparations. The challenges we face are significant. Public sector net debt in the UK is currently nearly 100 per cent of gross domestic product, its highest level since the 1960s. At the same time, the overall UK tax burden is higher than at any time since 1950, and is forecast to continue rising over the next few years, because of the UK Government’s changes to the personal allowance, for example. Options for whichever party forms the next UK Government will be constrained by this legacy of 14 years of chaos and mismanagement by the Conservatives in Westminster. It's clear that there is a very challenging fiscal backdrop as we start to look ahead. Whilst the economy is forecast to grow over the next few years, the average growth rate of 1.7 per cent is historically low.

The current shadow chancellor, Rachel Reeves, has bold and ambitious plans to deliver growth and jobs across the UK after more than a decade of low growth. I very much hope that the general election affords us the opportunity to work with her to implement these plans in Wales. Faster economic growth would help to alleviate these pressures, and the Welsh Government will, of course, be doing whatever it can to improve the prospects for growth and more and better jobs here in Wales. However, we cannot plan on the basis of optimistic scenarios for the UK economy in the short term. It is more important than ever that the Welsh Government ensures that it's making the most of the resources available to it and deploying those resources in the most effective way possible. We will learn of the next UK Government’s plans over the coming months, but we must be prepared for difficult decisions and trade-offs in our planning.

In 2021, we set three-year spending plans and undertook a zero-based capital review. This enabled us to provide a multi-year settlement covering the period 2022-23 to 2024-25. We continue to be dependent on the overall settlement from UK Government, but this new approach will enable us to construct longer term solutions to the challenges that we face. The Welsh spending review will drive our annual budgets, extending beyond short-term priorities to focus on the key medium to longer term challenges and opportunities that we face, setting the foundations for longer term settlements and embedding a whole-Government approach to identifying priorities and supporting delivery of outcomes for Wales. This significant and wide-ranging work will enable robust and fully informed decision making regarding future fiscal policy for the Welsh Government and ensure that our spending continues to align with our priorities over the medium to long term.

At the forefront of this work will be an emphasis on this Government’s five key priorities for Wales: reducing NHS waiting lists; support for children in early years and educational excellence in our schools; better, greener jobs; secure homes; and improved transport links across the country. To echo the words of the First Minister when he made this statement on these priorities to the Senedd in April, we will find 'Welsh solutions to Welsh problems', which goes to the heart of what devolution is all about, setting out an ambitious future for a fairer Wales.

I want all of us to have a greater understanding of both the current and potential future profile of Wales, enabling us to adapt and react to changing circumstances whilst creating the conditions for more informed and continuous fiscal planning. We're in the very, very early stages of this work, and I anticipate that it will continue throughout 2024 and into 2025. But, I wanted to start the debate in the Siambr early so that I can listen to and work with all colleagues and ensure that there's an opportunity for early engagement. I look forward to hearing colleagues' thoughts.

Can I thank you for the statement, Cabinet Secretary? We are at that time of political challenge, we know. Obviously, the first half of your statement was the predictable political diatribe that seems to be the default position to take away the focus from the Government's incompetence in running this country. Let's not forget, you've been running this country for 25 years. The last budget you received was the largest settlement you'd ever received. The fact is that the Government here, their incompetence is easy to see. 

And, let's not forget that Wales does get £1.20 for every £1 spent in England. But we saw knee-jerk budgeting last year, although advice was in place months before, advising of inflationary issues at play. This year's budget was poorly handled, seeing local government being given a massive real-terms cut, forcing councils to push up council taxes. We see continued decline in our health service, the longest waiting lists in the UK, education languishing at the bottom of performance tables, we see an underperforming economy with the lowest pay levels in the UK. Your Government isn't supporting businesses but is stifling growth. Your Government's focus and choices have been in the wrong places, and we know what those areas were and I won't rehearse them, but one obvious one would be the £120 million we're planning to spend on new Members here, let alone the 20 mph and the £9 billion hit on the economy over the next several years as a result.

Short-term thinking will get us nowhere, Cabinet Secretary. You need to have a plan, and it's something Labour haven't got, and what you've admitted today is that there isn't a plan. It's your Government's short-term thinking that has led to the reduction in business rates relief that will raise you some cash in the short term but will harm businesses throughout Wales and, no doubt, lose you future revenue in the longer term. It's your Government's short-term thinking that will hammer tourism businesses with the dreaded tourism tax and the 182-day regulations that will leave the sector in Wales less competitive and worse off. It's your Government's short-term thinking that has saddled the Welsh economy with up to a £9 billion hit, as I mentioned earlier, due to the 20 mph policy. When you look at all of these punitive policies together, it's clear that the Labour Welsh Government has given up on growth. Leading the way in research and development, and investment in technology, to boost our energy in green sectors is an area where you should be focusing. Just look at the UK Government's plan to deliver a new gigawatt power plant in north Wales or to electrify the north Wales main line with £1 billion-worth of investment, or the levelling-up, shared prosperity or community ownership funds. Where is Welsh Labour's vision? What does the Labour Welsh Government have to offer? Nothing, sadly.

However, all of that said, I welcome your invite to work collegiately, and you know I will do, and I'm pleased you will listen to the things that we might bring forward. I'm pleased there will be a cross-Government spending review, because I think that something that is fundamentally missing in this place is a holistic view of the whole gamut of services that we deliver here; hence we see portfolio governance and Governments not talking to each other, and one side fighting another, instead of us coming together to solve some of the major issues, like the health service in Wales. So, I thank you for your statement, Minister. We look forward to what happens in future. I certainly hope it's not Rachel Reeves who will be dictating what our financial situation will be, going forward, because I'm afraid I do not have much faith in her. Thank you.

I'm very grateful to Peter Fox for his comments this afternoon. I do understand, of course, that we're in a general election period, but I think my opening remarks, when I set out the economic and fiscal context within which we're undertaking this spending review, were just a simple assessment of the facts, and those facts are having day-to-day impacts on the lives of people across Wales. Some further facts were to be found in the 'Ending Stagnation' report from the Resolution Foundation, which I absolutely commend to colleagues if they want to find out a bit more about the context in which we're living. In that report, they talk about the impact of poverty, and benefit levels that have failed to keep pace with prices in 10 of the 15 past years. Alongside wider cuts since 2010, this has reduced the incomes of the poorest fifth of families in Wales by just under £3,000 a year. That's really, really significant. Around a quarter of households with disabled adults are in poverty and more than two fifths of families with three or more children are also in poverty. Inequality hasn't fallen, despite the rise in the minimum wage and progressive employment gains over the period. So, we are facing, I think, a significant range of challenges as we undertake this work.

The whole point of this work is that we reflect on the years that we've been through, through the pandemic and then through the cost-of-living crisis, which almost by their very nature have led us towards making some of those tactical decisions that, inevitably, are more short term. This is more about having a strategic view and looking at the work of the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development, and many OECD countries also have medium-term expenditure frameworks, which are, essentially, what we're talking about today. The coverage and the design of those really does vary significantly, but I think it's important that we learn from what's happening in other countries and take inspiration from where we see examples that we think are really positive.

The OECD, for example, says that some of the potential benefits of a medium-term expenditure framework could be that it can underpin fiscal discipline, and that's, of course, to the extent that the forward ceilings are framed by reference to fiscal limits and available resources. They can improve the effectiveness of public spending by harmonising public expenditure with national priorities. They can signal the direction of policy and funding changes, thereby giving greater assurance about resource demands and availability over the multi-year horizon, and, in turn, promoting effective forward planning. They can also facilitate the planning and resourcing of multi-year policies that may require an extended time horizon for implementation, such as large capital projects, for example, or new programmes or organisational restructuring. So, what we are talking about here today is that longer term planning, looking ahead five years, 10 years, to understand the dynamics of Wales into the future and the challenges that we know are coming down the line towards us, and how we go about addressing them.

I think that we are entering what's going to be a really exciting piece of work, and that offer to be collegiate is absolutely genuinely there. As I set out in the statement, this piece of work will be undertaken through 2024 and into 2025. So, once the dust has settled on the general election, I'm sure that we'll be able to have some of those more collegiate discussions in terms of this piece of work, because it's definitely something that I think that, as a Senedd, we will all be interested in working on. The door is very much open to have those discussions.

Thank you, Cabinet Secretary, for your statement today. This is my first opportunity to speak to you as the party's spokesperson for finance, and I'm looking forward to collaborating with you, and scrutinising you, of course, Cabinet Secretary, and I do welcome the invitation in terms of collaborating.

I have to be honest, I am slightly perplexed and disappointed by parts of the statement today. There were two Bs that were definitely missing, which were Brexit—the impact of Brexit; surely we have to acknowledge the devastating impact Brexit has had on our communities and the funding available to our communities—and also Barnett. We're all agreed here that it's an outdated model. What about fair funding for Wales? We're in a middle of a general election campaign, and there were plenty of political points scoring in your statement in terms of promoting Rachel Reeves, but fair funding for Wales has to be at the heart of our calls to the next UK Government—the reform of Barnett, ensuring that we have that HS2 consequential to Wales, ensuring also that we have devolution of the Crown Estate. These are musts for the next Government, and I would like to see that reassurance from you that you will be fighting for Wales, fighting for fair funding and fighting for that ambition. Because let's be clear, as you outlined, of course, the impact of austerity—14 years of Tory austerity—it's not just devastating for our institutions and organisations, but also for people in our communities. We know the impact that poverty has on people's health, that people have been living in damp homes and the impact that then has on health. People have died because of cruel policies, and that's something that has to be taken into account.

The only point I will share with Peter Fox is that I think there are things that the Welsh Government needs to reflect on in terms of the past 25 years in terms of policy decisions, so I do welcome the approach in terms of that long-term commitment. Obviously, other Governments across the world are taking that kind of approach. But one thing that I don't understand is, as we do have a Well-being of Future Generations (Wales) Act 2015 here in Wales, that it wasn't referenced at all in your statement. It's been in place since 2015. In that, it places a duty on Welsh Ministers to consider the long term. I've been reminding myself of the well-being of future generations Act and, as it states there, it's about

'improving the social, economic, environmental and cultural well-being of Wales',

and the purpose to make public bodies listed to think more about the long term by providing a framework. You have a duty under that Act to be doing much of what you've outlined today already. So, can you please explain to me how this is supposed to work with those duties in terms of the well-being of future generations Act, and is it an admission today that Welsh Ministers haven't been doing what's required with the well-being of future generations Act, or that, actually, you're stepping away from that? It's just not very clear to me at all, given that these are outlined quite clearly. I have been concerned and have mentioned numerous times since being elected here that I have been concerned by the Welsh Government's approach to siloed budgets, rather than thinking cross-governmentally in terms of how we can be investing in culture, investing in sports as part of the prevention agenda. So, I do welcome that you're stating this, but I do question why this isn't already happening, and that you're mentioning a new approach, rather than actually working within the frameworks of that Act. But, more than anything, I do hope that we have a commitment from you today that it has to be a priority to have that fair funding for Wales from the next UK Government, of whichever colour that is, and that we're not just admitting defeat.

You do mention as well in your statement about—if I can find it here—raising money in Wales. Well, obviously, that's something we've called on, for you to use those powers, so I welcome that approach. But, obviously, we did have a chance to reform the council tax, for instance. So, is this also an admission that we haven't gone far enough in the past?

So, I hope you'll take those comments in the spirit that they're intended, about ensuring that we have the resources available here in Wales. But I would like to understand how are you fighting for us to have what we need here in Wales to deliver those public services as well.

I'm very grateful for the comments this afternoon, and I'd like to welcome Helen Fychan to her new spokesperson role. I look forward to what I know will be plenty of challenge and scrutiny, but also just to say I'm really keen to find those areas of common ground that we can work on together as well. And just to say ‘thank you’ to Peredur Owen Griffiths as well for his work as spokesperson, and I know he will continue in his role as finance Chair as well, so we will continue to work together in that space as well.

I think there's so much that we agree on in your contribution today. Brexit: I think my views on Brexit are quite well known, but I'm happy to put on the record here that I have deep concerns about the way in which the exit from the union was undertaken in the first place, but then also the impacts that it's having on our economy and on our lives much more widely beyond that. I was really pleased that Rachel Reeves has talked about closing the holes in the Brexit deal at least, and cutting the red tape that's hampering some of our leading industries that we have here in Wales, and also really pleased to hear the FM reiterating the discussions that he'd had with Keir Starmer previously about powers and funding coming back to us here in Wales when they've been removed as a result of Brexit, despite the fact that we were told that we wouldn't be a penny worse off and that powers wouldn't be removed from us. So I think those things are positive, but the ongoing impact of Brexit will be here with us for a very long time yet.

In terms of Barnett, and reforming the way in which the United Kingdom is funded, I didn't go into too much of that, or didn't go into that, this afternoon, because we did have quite a good debate on that in the Senedd very recently. Again, there's a lot of common ground. We believe that Barnett does need to be reformed. The view of the Welsh Government is that we should look to have a UK-wide system that is needs based, where we have independent adjudication, so that we have those opportunities to be convinced of the fairness of whatever might come out the other side of that. We'll continue to press those arguments, as we set out in ‘Reforming our Union’. I'm really pleased with the work that has come through and the views that have come through the commission on the future of the constitution in Wales as well, which supported the Welsh Government's views on those fiscal flexibilities. Again, actually, that's something that we have cross-party agreement on in the Senedd, which is really, really positive.

In terms of the well-being of future generations Act, absolutely, this will be at the heart of the work, but it is also at the heart of the budgets that we undertake in any case. So, this work will be—. We see this as the longer term fiscal framework in which we will be undertaking our annual budget. So, we have the 2025-26 budget ahead of us, for example, so that work in terms of setting the immediate priorities will commence in line with the usual timetable. So, we have the debate that is led by the Finance Committee ahead of the summer. That will take place, and then we will be undertaking the formal budget process as we normally do. But that will happen then for future years within this wider context.

So, the wider context will consider things such as the demographics in Wales, what we know about productivity and how we can go about improving that in Wales. And I think one of the things that is really important is the trajectory of health and social care spend. So, one of the key challenges that we do face across the budget—we all know; we talk about it all the time—is we have to divert funding from elsewhere in the Government to ensure that health has the funding it needs, and it's taking up a growing share of the resource budget all the time. So, it's currently close to 55 per cent now; based on current trends, it could be up to 60 per cent by 2028-29.

So, the Welsh spending review is a really important opportunity to consider how we can best manage that future trajectory, in parallel with considering a range of other key strategic fiscal challenges and opportunities that also face us, and the health Secretary and I are considering what work we need to do or commission externally to better understand this. It's been a long time now since the King's Fund work, for example. A lot has changed since then, so we're considering what we should be doing together on that as well. And, of course, our normal budgets will continue to have the strategic integrated impact assessment and so on. 

At the heart of the well-being of future generations Act is working in collaboration, and that's what is absolutely going to be at the heart of the spending review. We want to try different things now in terms of the spending review in terms of engagement. We have our normal engagement with the commissioners, including the future generations commissioner, for example. We have a whole range of other things that we do to try and engage on budgets, but, actually, we want to open this wider and hear from different and diverse voices across Wales. 

As I say, today is very much about just letting the Senedd know that I'm keen to kick off this piece of work and trying to have that early conversation to hear the first views, but very little has actually been set in stone yet in terms of the next steps. 

I note your five priorities. On behalf of the Equality and Social Justice Committee, I wonder if you can say what weight will be given to the equality impact statement and how will it differ from last year's or the year before's, because I think that there's genuine concern that this isn't being considered front and centre of the Government's decision making. 

I also would like to ask you what attention you will be paying to moving more resources into prevention, because it's so much cheaper to nip problems in the bud rather than let them develop and then become much more expensive later down the line, and there's just so much that we need to do on this.  

So, in terms of the strategic integrated impact assessment, we have commissioned—. Or this year we are undertaking a review of the strategic integrated impact assessment, so that we can reflect on the views of the committee but also the views more widely that have been expressed in the Senedd as we undertake the annual budget. So, the impact assessment will be part of our normal budget. The work that I'm describing today is that kind of longer term, more strategic look. So, we see the fiscal strategy as that five to 10-year outlook. Within that then, there'll be a series of what we're just referring internally to as episodes. So, an episode might be the one-year budget or it might be a three-year spending review, but all of that is within that wider umbrella of the longer-term look, which will look at things like demographics, what we expect to happen in the health service and so on.

So, it allows that kind of decision making over a longer term, and responds to what the Senedd has been very keen on in terms of that greater and more evidenced shift towards prevention, which is absolutely something we have to do. I've just talked about what we expect, based on current trajectories, the health spend might be in future years, and that—. It is a huge challenge, so that's one of the reasons why we're undertaking this work, to try and move things more towards prevention, but to do so over a long term.  

Thank you for your statement. Cabinet Secretary, were it not clear to me before, the range of meetings I've begun to have with stakeholders across the education sector has really driven home to me the scale of the crisis resulting from the underinvestment in education in Wales. From primary right through to secondary, further and higher education, the impact of this underinvestment is clear to see. Now, indeed, as we all saw yesterday, figures published by School Cuts Cymru show that 922 schools in Wales have faced budget cuts, with real-terms per pupil funding falling by £343 for primary schools, £388 for secondary schools and £411 for special schools. 

Now, we also know from public letters from headteachers in Denbighshire, Blaenau Gwent and elsewhere that they are facing unprecedented financial pressures, with knock-on impacts on staff morale, mental health and their ability to do their jobs. At the same time, both higher and further education are facing—[Interruption.] Sorry? 

You need to ask a question. 

Sorry, I'm coming to that. Right, okay. So, can you confirm that you are doing everything in your power to ensure that our education system is receiving the level of investment it needs?

I'm very grateful for that, and Cefin Campbell and I were both at an event this afternoon at lunch time, talking to representatives from the University and College Union, hearing about challenges facing the higher education sector as well, and so we're aware of the pressures right across education.

So, education, clearly, will be key to the work that we're talking about this afternoon, which looks across that five to 10-year period going ahead, and you'll have seen the way in which we've tried to prioritise local government through our budget processes in recent years has given the best possible protection that we could to education, but absolutely we recognise the huge pressures that education is under at the moment.

In terms of the work for the spending review period, I think what I should take from this, really, is a request that it is a key plank that we look at as part of the spending review process, because what I'm talking about this afternoon isn't anything that allocates money; it's more about the process of understanding what the challenges might be in the years to come, to ensure that we take that strategic approach to those challenges, rather than having to respond in a kind of short-term way. But the demographic challenges that we're facing, I think, will play into that as well, and that will be an important part of our research.

I thank the Cabinet Secretary.

Item 4 is a statement by the Cabinet Secretary for Health and Social Care, six goals for urgent and emergency care two years on. I call on the Cabinet Secretary, Eluned Morgan.

Diolch yn fawr, Dirprwy Lywydd. Thank you for the opportunity to provide an update on the progress we've made over the second year of our six goals for urgent and emergency care programme. Demand for urgent and emergency care has risen consistently as we've emerged from the pandemic, and the last 12 months have seen this trend continue. For too long, the always-open door of the emergency department has meant that it, and the dedicated staff working in units all over Wales, have been at the forefront of responding to this surge in demand generally, as the only ever-open front door.

We set up the six goals programme two years ago to ensure that people get the right care from the right healthcare professional at the first time of asking. For a great many people, that means that the emergency department is not the most appropriate place for them to receive the right level of care, but, until two years ago, they had no alternative but to use the emergency department when they’ve needed urgent care. The six goals programme is changing that.

Last year was another extremely challenging year for urgent and emergency care services, but, despite the combination of higher-than-expected demand coupled with industrial action from 'Agenda for Change' unions and junior doctors, the hard work of NHS staff and the work of the six goals programme has helped to stabilise emergency care performance. More than 0.75 million people completed their treatment in emergency departments within four hours in 2023-24—that’s 57,000 more people compared to the previous year. Response times for amber 999 calls improved, and more than 26,700 people received an ambulance response in eight minutes to a life-threatening 999 call—that's up 13 per cent on the previous year.

Now, we've seen encouraging improvements in some areas, including Cardiff and Vale, in reducing ambulance patient handover delays. However, there is unwarranted variation in performance across Wales, with issues intrinsically linked to challenges in supporting timely discharge of patients from hospital to home. These matters will need to be addressed with urgency over the first part of this year. Whilst there has been progress, there is, of course, still much more to do. Too many people are experiencing long delays in emergency departments, which in turn increases their risk of harm. This is not acceptable and will be a focus for the six goals programme in its third year.

Dirprwy Lywydd, today I'm publishing the second annual six goals progress report. We've continued to support NHS organisations with £25 million in additional programme funding to respond to my priorities to increase urgent care capacity as part of a move towards a 24/7 integrated urgent care model, and to expand same-day emergency care services at the front door of hospitals to help more people to safely avoid admission. We also published the quality statement for care in emergency departments, which sets out the outcomes and standards people should expect to receive when accessing care in high-quality emergency departments.

Since I launched the six goals programme, we have set up 16 urgent primary care centres across Wales, serving a population of 2.2 million people. During the second year of the programme, these services have grown and the latest data shows around 11,000 people are accessing these centres every month. Eighty-five per cent are safely managed without needing to access an emergency department. The expansion of same-day emergency care services over the last year means that more than 7,500 people are using these services every month. Eight out of 10 are discharged home on the same day without needing to be admitted to hospital.

The programme has provided funding to health boards to support care home staff to help more people receive care and treatment in their place of residence and reduce ambulance attendance and conveyance to the emergency department. Our intent is that people who live in residential and nursing homes, if they become unexpectedly unwell, will be remotely reviewed by a senior nurse or doctor in a timely manner and, where appropriate, access safe alternatives to conveyance and hospital admission.

Year two of the programme has also seen the launch of new pathways, including a new NHS 111 pathway to provide advice to parents of young children to help safely avoid unnecessary trips to the emergency department, and fracture liaison services to help frail adults prevent or reduce future urgent care episodes, and I had the opportunity to discuss this in detail last week during the short debate about bone health. Also, access to wearable devices and monitoring technology will also help people to either safely avoid hospital admission or to return home from hospital when they're clinically ready to do so.

Dirprwy Lywydd, the six goals programme is helping to provide better and more appropriate services for people who need urgent and emergency care. It has also helped to stabilise emergency care performance in the face of rising demand. But I am clear that there is much more that we need to do. Some of the issues facing emergency care and hospital discharge, in particular, are deep-rooted and complex. We are committed to continuing to support NHS organisations and regional partnership boards through this programme and other national transformation programmes.

Moving into the third year of the programme, I expect a renewed vigour, determination and a collective resolve to make tangible inroads against these challenges. I want to see a greater focus on proactively supporting people to stay well, preventing deterioration, and enabling them to receive acute care in community settings, and to do so safely. 

This year, there will be more rigorous expectations for improvement against key system markers like ambulance-patient handover performance and unsafe long stays in emergency departments. We will continue to strengthen 24/7 urgent care services, and we will further develop same-day emergency care services and reduce the length of patient stays in hospital, targeting the frail population. On top of this, there will also be a focus on the development and optimal use of enhanced clinical pathways. This will enable more people to access the right services for their needs first time, and it will also reduce demand on emergency departments. 

For urgent care, as part of the clinically safe alternatives to admission, health boards will be expected to demonstrate an increase in the number of people who receive enhanced community care by September 2025. The aim is to provide care closer to home, where that is clinically appropriate.

Health boards will continue to receive additional funding to support the delivery of these priorities. This is part of a wider £180 million investment this year to support NHS organisations and regional partnership boards to deliver integrated solutions across health and social care. All of these actions will form part of our overarching plan to support resilience over the winter period.

We can all do our bit to support the NHS by taking small steps to look after our own health, by taking regular exercise and eating a healthier diet. We can also help by choosing the service that is right for our healthcare needs when we're ill and need help rather than heading automatically for the GP surgery or the emergency department. If you don't know where to go, NHS 111 can provide help and support. Thank you.

Thank you for the statement, Cabinet Secretary.

It's hard to disagree with the six goals and aims, such as signposting people with urgent care needs to the right place. They're common sense and should be a priority for any Government. However, beyond warm words, it's clear that there are significant and serious issues in the health system, and the recent statistics showing the longest waiting lists on record in the Welsh NHS are clear proof of that, along with the catalogue of failings in the Betsi Cadwaladr University Health Board, which has the lowest percentage of emergency department attendees seen within the 12-hour target. Despite the best efforts of staff on the ground, people across Wales are suffering due to poor management of the health service, which begins here in Cardiff Bay. This has been the case for far too long, and we need these plans to make real systemic change in our health system to make sure that the residents that we serve can get the quality, efficient treatment they deserve.

I'd like to ask about the timescales for the targets that have been set. In the original plan, there are a variety of so-called initial priorities, so how many of the deadlines that have come and gone have been achieved and how many were not? Additionally, there are a number of goals with deadlines by the next Senedd elections in 2026. How likely are those to be met by that time? And to take one example, a particularly important target is that each person assessed as having an urgent primary care need will reliably have access to the right professional or service for that need within eight hours of contacting the NHS. Achieving goals like that will make a difference for people, but the action has to be carried out and not just left as words on a page.

This is also a cross-portfolio plan and, in the original document, it was yourself, the then Deputy Minister for Social Services, and the then Deputy Minister for Mental Health and Well-being. Could you expand on how this cross-portfolio working has developed with the new set of Ministers? And how are you all working together on the continued progress of the six goals plan?

Finally, Cabinet Secretary, the original plan talks about mental health support and outlines the importance of a co-ordinated response from services across the urgent and emergency care pathway. There are many different moving parts to mental health care, as we all know, and responding rapidly to those in need is of vital importance. The commitment to expand provision, such as sanctuaries, houses or crisis cafes, is set for April 2025, so, within the next 12 months, what groups are being worked with to meet that goal? And what will you do, from this point on, to ensure that this target is met, Minister? Thank you.

Thank you very much. Well, I'm really pleased to hear that you think that systemic change is what's needed, and this is precisely what this is: it's systemic change. It's not doing more of the same and thinking you're going to get different results. So, this is about things like the introduction of the same-day emergency care service, which has increased significantly over the past two years, and urgent primary care centres that are taking literally thousands of people, every month, away from our emergency departments.

And the 111 service, on average, we are seeing at least 70,000 people calling the 111 service on a monthly basis. Don't forget, that service didn't exist two years ago, and that's just the 111 service. There's a '111 press 2' service, which is separate, for mental health. And, as I explained, there's now one specifically for children, and also a 111 service where you press 0 for palliative care. So, all of these things are there to make sure that people have the reassurance that they need, but also that they're directed to the right care and the right experts. And I think that's exactly what you're pointing to is that systemic change.

So, the real issue, in terms of challenge here, is demand. The demand is just unbelievable. It just keeps on coming. If you just look at the red calls for ambulance response times, we've seen the number of red calls double—more than double—since pre-pandemic times. More than double. And then since the end of the pandemic, it's increased again 21 per cent since this time last year. That's a massive, massive increase in demand. Now, okay, we're putting the money in place—we're putting in £25 million additional funding for some of these things—but I think what's quite impressive is despite that massive increase in demand, the average response time, for example, to amber patients, improved, and over 80 per cent of patients in the red category received a response in 15 minutes. Not good enough, but definitely, if you think about the demand, I think it's a performance that obviously needs to be improved upon, but it could have been a lot worse. And what is really interesting, I think, is to note that this approach is something that actually other people are looking at now. So, England are looking at our model, because the fact is, there has been stability in relation to emergency care compared to the English system, and over the past 18 months there has been a better performance in relation to emergency departments in Wales than there has been in England, and those now have been independently verified. So, yes, there is more to do.

On the cross-portfolio working, I worked very closely with Julie Morgan before. I am now working very closely with Dawn Bowden, who is obviously responsible for care now, but also with local government. We have very frequent meetings. I'm meeting with Julie James tomorrow to talk about what we do next and preparing for winter, because obviously, as you know, there is always significant challenge over winter.

On the sanctuary side of things, some have been developed already, but we're doing one thing at a time. So, we'll get to that, but at the moment there is a very clear programme, and obviously we're just doing one thing at a time.

Well, it appears that 'plan' is the word of this general election. There is a plan for everything. Sunak has a plan. Starmer has a plan. The world and his dog has a plan, apparently. Nobody has more experience of preparing plans than the Welsh Government, with plans coming out of their ears, particularly in looking at the health service, and now we have another plan here this afternoon—this time, a plan on urgent and emergency care.

But any plan is reliant on its substance and implementation, and despite the positive headlines in launching these plans, the Government's record has been very weak on delivery. The six goals before us today are a clear example of this. The progress on the implementation of the six goals has been inconsistent at best, and it's concerning that it appears that we are moving backwards in certain areas. So, I want to paint a very different picture to the one that's been painted by the Cabinet Secretary this afternoon.

For example, improving ambulance patient handover is at the heart of the goal for rapid response in a physical or mental health crisis, but the latest available statistics show that ambulance handover lost hours were 24.8 per cent higher compared to the previous year. Indeed, in 2022-23, a total of almost 300,000 hours were lost by the ambulance service due to handover delays—the highest figure on record. The goals also include a target for year-on-year improvements in response times to red and amber calls, up to April 2026, as we heard. But the median response time to red calls is currently 8 minutes 17 seconds, which is 43 seconds slower than the same time last year. Fewer than half of red calls lead to a response within eight minutes, with the Government's target of 65 per cent having been merely ornamental for some time. Meanwhile, the median response time for amber calls is 1 hour 15 minutes and 18 seconds—a full 12 minutes slower than the previous year.

A similar story emerges with discharging patients from hospital beds. In April 2024, there were 1,738 people occupying an NHS hospital bed that experienced a delay in their transfer of more than 48 hours—the highest monthly total in 12 months. Based on Royal College of Nursing calculations, this means that more than 576,000 people in Wales experienced delays in their care across an entire year, which equates to over 1 million days of delay in total. 

Welsh patients also continue to face long hospital stays, despite the plan's aim to facilitate a greater shift away from hospital-based care. Research commissioned by the Government on this issue last year corroborated studies showing that hospital stays in Wales remained significantly higher than those in England. Furthermore, in the absence of reliable and resilient arrangements to facilitate this shift, we have instead witnessed an alarming rise in unsafe corridor care in recent years, as outlined in an RCN report published at the start of this month. 

Then, we have to contextualise the preventative aspects of the plan to reduce the risks of readmissions with the reality that funding on preventative programmes has been contracted in recent years, as this Government has had to throw ever-increasing resources at fighting fires at the front line. 

There's nothing wrong with having ambitious plans, and I'm certainly not accusing the Cabinet Secretary of lacking ambition in this plan. But there's nothing worse than ambition that does not have a credible path to delivery. And I'm sure the Cabinet Secretary will agree with me that a failure to be upfront and honest about what is achievable can have damaging implications for public confidence in our health service, as well as the morale of its staff. 

Can I ask the Cabinet Secretary, therefore, in light of all the statistics I've listed in my contribution, whether she truly believes that urgent and emergency care in Wales is more efficient, streamlined, and, most importantly, safer than it was when the plan was developed? Does she also agree that achieving the goals in this plan would have been much easier and much quicker if Wales had a fair funding model from Westminster?

And finally, when referring to problems within the waiting times, for instance, the Cabinet Secretary, like Sunak, refers to the impact of industrial action by NHS staff. But they are taking industrial action to highlight the dangers within the health service, and the need to improve working conditions and recruit more. Does she accept, therefore, that this criticism is unfair?

Diolch yn fawr. I will agree with you that if we had more money we could do more, and that would very much be welcome. And, obviously, we're hoping that a new Labour Government will help to stabilise the economy and that more money will then flow into public services. 

I think it's really unfair to say that there is no plan. It's not just a plan; we've actually delivered here. I won't say that about everything that I do in my portfolio, but on this one, I really think this is an area where we have seen a transformation. The fact is there are 80,000 people every month who now are able to phone an alternative to an emergency department or a GP practice. That's not a plan; that's something that's being delivered. It's the same thing for same-day emergency care centres—7,500 people are now not going to the emergency departments, they're coming in to the same-day emergency care centres and they're leaving to go home the same day. Urgent primary care centres—16 of them, 16 new centres, 11,000 people a month. This is not a plan. This is what's being delivered. I do think it's really important to note that.

Is it pressurised? Absolutely, it's pressurised. And why is it pressurised? It's because the demand has just increased and increased and increased. As I say, it's doubled since before the pandemic, and since the pandemic we've seen a 21 per cent increase in demand. You're not going to manage to fix that at the flick of a switch, which is why this is a much more strategic and systemic approach that is trying to look at what it is we need to do across the whole system.

The fact is that, in April, we had the third highest demand for ambulances on record. [Interruption.] It's not good enough, but that was the third highest on record. And yet—[Interruption.]

Cabinet Secretary, hold on a second. There are Members who are making comments from sedentary positions. Let the Cabinet Secretary respond to the questions that were put to her, please.

And yet, 70 per cent of patients spent less than four hours in emergency care facilities, and the average time to triage was 20 minutes. So, you're right, it's not good enough—of course it's not good enough—but we are going to take a bit of time to cope with trying to deal with that enormous increase in demand. And these kinds of systems, responding with the six goals programme, I think has alleviated this. Just imagine what it would have been like had we not introduced this programme.

In relation to strikes, obviously we want to avoid industrial action. We can't do any of this without the workforce. That's why I was particularly pleased that we were able to make an offer to three sections of the BMA last week and that that will be recommended to their members. I hope that that means that we'll be able to continue to deliver the service that the people of Wales deserve and require.

Thank you for your statement today, Cabinet Secretary. I think the most important thing about the six-point plan is that people get the right care, at the right time, and in the right place. Opening up 16 urgent primary care centres across Wales is a really, really good investment, because most of those urgent primary care centres are closer to home than the A&E—as most people refer to it—would have been. And it also means that they can then carry on with the ongoing care afterwards, because they're in their localities, and they'll be seen and treated by people who know and understand their needs. You can't overstate that. The £25 million additional programme funding to increase urgent care capacity to 24/7 will again help in alleviating what is an emergency care pressure that you've just identified. And if you ask anybody—

You need to ask your question now, please, Joyce.

I am going to. If you ask anybody that's been there, they will tell you they have good service. So, going forward, and, again, looking at progress along the plan, when can we expect to see the next statement from you that shows, I suspect, even further progress on this path?

I'll try and make another statement next year. I think it's really important, because I like to keep the momentum going. I think there's been real progress—this is real delivery. But there's quite a lot we've done that I haven't mentioned. For example, we've put £5 million into the allied health professional community workforce, trying to make sure that people get that support in the community—the physiotherapists, those reablement workers—trying to make sure people are fit and healthy and they don't need to then go into a hospital. One of the things we're doing is we've increased—and Jenny Rathbone will be pleased to hear this—the amount of money going in to community nursing and specialist palliative care nursing in the community, particularly at the weekend. We're identifying the 0.5 per cent of people at the greatest risk of going in to emergency care. We know who's likely to finish up in emergency care, so we put the support in before they get there—try and keep them at home and give them the support. I think there are a lot of really exciting things that we're doing.

On top of that, of course, we've got the pathways of care delays reporting framework—that's now been in place for a year—so we know what's the hold-up, why are people still in hospital. All of that now is an all-Wales system, so we can hold everyone to account. And then, there's the thing I talked about last week—the fracture liaison service. One in two women over 50 are going to break a bone after 50. And if you've broken it once, the chance of you breaking it again is much greater. With this development of a fracture liaison service, we've done a huge amount of analysis to look at what are the costs involved in this, not just to the person but to the NHS, and it's enormous. So, why don't we put that support in? Once we know if somebody has fallen, put the support in to make sure they don't fall again and finish up back in hospital, particularly those people who then find it difficult to get home. So, all of that, I think, are really positive developments.

Something I'm particularly keen on is trying to get care homes and nursing homes to take a bit more responsibility, to be a bit less risk-averse, not to just send people in to hospital. Because if they go into hospital, they'll be there for a long time. So, let's bring the hospital to them, let's get the consultants on a remote monitoring machine to say, 'Right, let's have a look at them. What are they like?' Because if they go into hospital, it's going to be really difficult to get them out, and they don't want to be in hospital; they want to be in their home environment. So, that's what we're trying to do—again, to identify who are the people who are likely to finish up in hospital. If they go to hospital, they're likely to stay there for a long time, and nobody wants that. 

Thank you, Cabinet Secretary. 

Item 5 this afternoon is a statement by the Cabinet Secretary for Climate Change and Rural Affairs on a sustainable Welsh marine environment. I call on the Cabinet Secretary, Huw Irranca-Davies. 

Thank you very much, Dirprwy Lywydd. This Saturday was World Ocean Day, and I welcome this opportunity to make a statement on our ambitions for our seas. Our seas and coastline are an iconic part of Wales, doubling the size of our country. The marine environment isn’t something that’s just far away, out there, deep underwater, that we don’t have to consider. Sixty per cent of people in Wales call coastal communities home. And it underpins our livelihoods.

From fishing and seafood businesses, to attracting tourists, to the huge, untapped potential of green jobs in offshore wind, people right across Wales rely on the marine environment every single day. Looking globally, oceans are key to climate regulation, protecting us from even faster climate change. They are the largest carbon sink on the planet, absorbing over a quarter of the carbon dioxide emissions we cause as humans, and around 90 per cent of excess heat. And despite all this, our relationship with the marine environment is fraught.

Last month, the Copernicus Climate Change Service reported that the world's oceans have broken temperature records every single day over the past year. Let’s be perfectly clear: this is globally significant. It impacts marine life: fish and whales move in search of cooler water, that upsets the food chain and other species will be lost completely. And it impacts as well on our communities right here at home. Melting ice sheets leads to rising sea levels, which increases flood risks for our coastal areas. Almost 250,000 properties in Wales are at risk of flooding. That’s one in eight properties, in towns across Wales from Rhyl to Llanelli to Newport. And there are other impacts too. Because of coastal erosion, flooding and climate change, more than 260 coastal landfill sites across Wales are currently at risk of leaking. And that means waste from decades and decades ago leaking into the marine environment today, potentially.

All of this paints a very clear picture of why future generations—our children and their children—are relying on us to make the right decisions now. We need sustained and transformative action to tackle the climate and nature emergencies. And that means that managing our natural resources sustainably, including our seas, must be at the very heart of our decisions. It means supporting marine renewable energy to help us reach net zero, whilst also making our marine ecosystems more resilient. It means harnessing the energy and enthusiasm of people, of communities and organisations, to improve the world for the better around us. And it means ensuring that sustainable management is at the very core of our approach to fisheries, benefiting both the sector and the environment. And I will be making a separate statement on fisheries after recess, with the will of the Dirprwy Lywydd and Llywydd. 

A key part of our approach is guiding development to the right place. Our seas and our coastlines are increasingly crowded, and so we can optimise to protect and support the industries that are already established whilst also finding the space for future opportunities. That's why I’m commissioning an independent review of marine planning methods, so that we understand how we can go further with our marine planning system while building on the existing framework. And building on my predecessor’s work, we are working with NRW to ensure that marine consenting is an enabling process—it's focused on how to make things work to deliver for nature and climate too.

I'm exploring how we can do more to encourage marine nature projects that bring huge benefits to people and nature. Just look at the work that's been done by Project Seagrass, funded through the coastal capacity building fund. Their work engages the local community, it upskills young people, and it engages with three local schools and does training with two local youth groups. Look at how, through the nature networks fund, Bardsey bird and field observatory involves diverse communities directly in the future of the area's wildlife through engagement and through citizen science. We're going to keep this focus on marine resilience and ecosystem restoration, and we will set ambitious targets in our forthcoming Bill to protect these vital habitats for our future generations.

Our marine protected area network is crucial, with over 50 per cent of Welsh waters currently designated. We will work towards completing the network, and we’re working with NRW to help us understand the network’s condition and to identify priority actions. One of the major pressures on our marine ecosystems is marine litter. Lost or abandoned fishing gear makes up a significant part of the plastic pollution in our seas, but this is actually an area where we have a very positive story to tell as a nation. In fact, Wales has led the way through our scheme to recycle end-of-life fishing gear, which has collected 10 tonnes of gear over two years.

And the work we’re doing to support our seas and our oceans doesn’t stop there. We are working with stakeholders to finalise the Welsh sea bird conservation strategy, to support our internationally important sea bird species. Our sea birds have recently come under increasing pressure, not least through avian influenza outbreaks. And we will unlock the potential of blue carbon by supporting seagrass and salt marsh restoration, and through a new Wales blue carbon forum.

We will continue to work collaboratively, Dirprwy Lywydd. The Wales Coasts and Seas Partnership, CaSP, is a fantastic example of this, bringing together a wide range of stakeholders and doing essential work in ocean literacy to widen the understanding. And we will leverage blue investment to increase the scale and the pace of nature restoration projects. And that’s why I'm delighted today to announce that Welsh Government will be providing funding to the marine resilience and improvement of natural ecosystems, MARINE, Cymru fund. This funding will be key in enabling MARINE Cymru to become operational and to draw in sustainable investment. The fund, supported by NRW’s mapping of marine ecosystem recovery opportunities and priorities, will help us accelerate our efforts.

We know that people right across Wales feel a very deep connection to our coast, and many people, indeed, rely on our coasts and oceans every single day. Together we can and we must protect these special places for future generations too. Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd.

First of all, I would like to thank the Minister for the statement—it has been a long time coming. It is something that I've raised in climate change committee and I've raised in the Senedd.

Welsh territorial seas cover some 32,000 square kilometers. That's much bigger than its territorial landmass. So, for me, I'm going to jump straight to the fact that you've also mentioned the new funding that you're putting forward. I know those organsiations who work in the Welsh marine environment will be wanting to bid for this. So, it would be good, Minister, if you could explain and maintain that it will be easy to access this funding for those wonderful people doing so much across Wales. 

Now, when considering that most of Wales is out at sea, it is disappointing that so little attention has been provided to the marine environment by the Welsh Labour Government. And I’ve even raised only recently that Lord Deben, the chairman of the Climate Change Committee himself, said the weaknesses that he could see in the marine sector in terms of the report.

So, it’s just great news, but I’m genuinely interested in working with you to see policy reform and more so, importantly, delivery. A hundred and thirteen million tonnes of carbon is stored in the top 10 cm of marine sediment in Wales. According to NRW, that represents almost 170 per cent of the carbon held by Welsh forests. Practices such as bottom trawling, dredging and the construction of offshore infrastructure can significantly disrupt these sediments, so we must ensure that the carbon release created by such activities is not only considered but combated. For example, there should be a study into the option of ceasing some bottom trawling. A square metre of seagrass captures triple the amount of the equivalent from a rainforest and 10 times the amount from grassland and hence why the 10 per cent of tree coverage has not been particularly welcomed by myself when the impact on our farmers—when we could be doing so much more with the marine sector. Salt marshes in estuaries with high suspended sediment loads in the water column, such as the Severn estuary, would sequester more than our forests. So, we should be doing more.

Now, we heard from Mark Drakeford MS last week that this Welsh Parliament should not be afraid of being trailblazers. So, I would want to see a summit of the best marine scientists in Wales, and we have some of the best ones—. One only has to go to Bangor University, and I’ll put on record the huge admiration and praise I have for Shelagh Malham, who is the deputy at the School of Ocean Sciences at Bangor; the work they do there is phenomenal. So, we want to actually capture that expertise and that knowledge that they have, even the UK Climate Change Committee called in 2022 for a road map to the inclusion of salt marsh and seagrass in the greenhouse gas inventory, and I’m going soon diving with the previous Minister to look at some of the wonderful seagrass projects that we have in Wales. 

Another example of where the marine environment is treated to disadvantage is planning. For land we have detailed local development plans. RSPB Cymru, the Marine Conservation Society and I have said time and time again we need the same across our—and I'm doing that, because the sea is just there. We need a national marine development plan, a structural, a proper plan that actually shows—. So, we need it to be different to the national marine plan. We actually need for it to be across the whole sector.

I thank Lesley Griffiths for her kind co-operation on tackling the illegal harvesting of razor clams in Llanfairfechan. However, the Welsh Government have been promising us a review into the health of this clam population for years, so it’s no good starting projects and protecting things without having the scientific answers when we do this. This unique marine area would be perfect for a PhD project for those studying at Bangor University, one of the largest university centres teaching marine sciences in the UK.

And this brings me to my final point. Having recently met with Professor Shelagh Malham, Bangor University, it became clear that the Welsh Government should really now be looking more at the work that this university and others are doing in the marine sector. For instance, during COVID, I didn’t realise that they were doing water testing sampling, and they do it for other kinds of viruses and diseases. However, funding restraints have meant that they’ve had to stop some of those projects—

You need to conclude now, Janet, please.

Yes. So, I would just ask the Minister: he has promised to visit the School of Ocean Sciences in Bangor, and I’d be able to tell him so much more and show him so much more when we have that visit. But thank you, Minister. I think so early on in your brief, the fact that you’ve listened to us is really, really good indeed.

Thank you very much for that, and can I just echo your points? I know, coming off the climate change committee, where you’ve been a Member for some time there, I'm keen to carry on working with all Members here within the Senedd, and also with the committee as well, and with the ideas they bring forward. I guess the only constraint on us is the classic constraint within Government of resource and priorities. However, there is a lot we can do.

Just to pick up on that point you were making about universities, our university sector in terms of marine science is excellent. It's absolutely astonishing. Curiously, it's why one of my sons went to Bangor to study marine biology, and then went off to do his Master's down at Plymouth and so on. But he went there because he knew the excellence of that area and the people that were involved in applied research as well. It wasn't just theoretical stuff, it was, 'How do we make Wales a better place and do this on the ground?' So, you are right, one of the ways we can stretch our resources further is to work with our university sector, and we're very keen to do that.

You mentioned several areas. I'm not sure I can do them all justice without drawing the wrath of the Dirprwy Lywydd, who is already looking at me. But just let me touch on a few of the key areas. You mentioned the marine Cymru fund. We are glad that we're able to act on that, and we'll be providing funding to that enable it to become operational. What the intention is here is to draw in high-integrity sustainable investment—high integrity is crucial to this. So, we want to make this an exemplar of how partners working together can develop projects to achieve shared outcomes in the marine environment, and making the funds that are available go a lot further. So, that fund will seek to invest in programmes and projects that enable, maintain and enhance the resilience of our marine and coastal ecosystems for the long term, that facilitate a wider delivery of benefits to individuals, communities and businesses, and produce those seas that we all want, which are clean, healthy, safe and productive, and biologically diverse as well.

On the marine planning, as you know, and I appreciate you're constantly pushing at a different approach to marine planning that would replicate something like the terrestrial planning, but we don't start from a blank sheet here, and we don't start from the basis that we fortunately have with terrestrial planning. What we do have is many things in place already, and that's not just our Welsh national marine plan, but we've recently consulted on, for example, potential strategic resource areas, SRAs, for tidal stream energy. So, the SRAs aim to identify and safeguard those areas with potential to support future sustainable use by that sector, and we've had a great consultation on that. My thanks to everyone who fed in their views. We're going to be publishing a summary of responses in due course. That enables us to put another piece of the jigsaw in place. Subject to the outcome of that, we'll look to work with stakeholders to develop proposals for other strategic resource areas for other sectors, including, for example, floating offshore wind, and then, bit by bit, rather than try and invent a whole simulacrum of the terrestrial planning, we do bit by bit, and we actually develop that mapping of the seas there.

Dirprwy Lywydd, I can't cover everything, but I simply wanted to say my thanks for your support as well for what we're doing with salt marsh and seagrass and blue carbon. That has enormous potential, I have to say, if we get that right, and it does mean having a truly sustainable approach in which we have sustainable use of our marine resource so that we can enable fisheries, for example, or enable pipelines or whatever, whatever new technologies come along, but we do it in a way that doesn't damage those immense reserves of blue carbon that is locked up in our marine environment as well. Dirprwy Lywydd, I've probably gone on a bit too long, but, Janet, I know, will keep this conversation going.

May I apologise at the outset? I was a couple of minutes late at the start of this debate, so I apologise to the Chamber, and I thank the Dirprwy Lywydd and the Cabinet Secretary for their patience on that.

There is an urgent need for a response to the state of our seas, of course. Recent research has painted a worrying picture: the world's oceans are facing the triple challenge of extreme warming, loss of oxygen and acidification. These extreme circumstances have deteriorated for decades, putting a strain on our marine life, and the ecosystems that depend on it. It's already been said, we're a maritime nation, and we must take notice. I do welcome what the Government is doing.

I would like to emphasise the gap in funding that exists for Wales when it comes to conservation. Current funding levels are inadequate. So, would the Cabinet Secretary be able to give us details about the action that will be taken to obtain more funding, yes, for protecting this in Wales, but also are there any specific plans at the British level to obtain more international funding to support what we are doing? Because, of course, our oceans are something that we share internationally.

Now, finding a balance between the need to protect nature and the need to reach net zero through offshore wind projects is vital. While offshore windfarms are a central part of our renewable energy strategy, they must be designed in ways that minimise the impact on marine ecosystems. As well as what has been said already—I don't want to repeat that—how are you ensuring that the projects are planned and created with environmental protections? And how will those be monitored? 

Of course, the potential for blue jobs is astounding. The environment offers opportunities in so many sectors, including fisheries, aquaculture and renewable energy. So, investing in jobs not only helps our economy, but our way of life. So, what strategies are in place to ensure that the creation of jobs in these sectors takes place, again in a sustainable way and in a way that benefits our communities? There is an intrinsic link, of course, between the health of our seas and the health of our planet. Again, in terms of international partners and facing up to these global challenges, how are we, as a Government in Wales, working internationally and helping global research to look at this?

Now, we've also seen mention made of the state of our water, because water companies are discharging sewage into our seas and rivers and ensuring that companies are held to account for this is so important. And, in terms of improving our environmental governance and ensuring that those who breach environmental law face severe punishment, do you agree that there is a risk that our politics could be polluted or put at risk by this?

And, coming to the end now, Dirprwy Lywydd, I promise, I would also like to emphasise the importance of the public’s input into all of this. I know that the Cabinet Secretary feels very strongly about this. Often, local communities are the first ones to notice changes in their environment, and they do play a crucial role, not only in terms of thinking that their role is to complain when they don't agree with something, but to have input to ensure that plans are things that they feel a part of. So, how do you want to ensure that the voices of those who will affected most are heard, and not just heard, but that action is taken on that? So, yes, there are a number of challenges, I'm aware of that, but I'll be looking forward to co-operating with you to respond to some of those challenges. Thank you.

Diolch yn fawr iawn, Delyth. It's great to be taking part in this debate with somebody who has consistently been so passionate about the marine environment as well, and the sustainable and productive use of that marine environment and getting the balance right. 

Let me begin where you ended there, with local communities. It is something that I'm very fixed on, how we engage local communities in coastal areas in what is some massive potential within, for example, renewables and so on. And there are clear upsides to that, but we have to get it right, as well, to protect the marine environment, but also on those individual things that can be done. I spoke to a school here from a south Wales constituency earlier on today and you could see the passion that they had as young children about thinking not just about themselves, but also the children who come beyond them as well. So, there is something here about not doing things to people, but doing things with people and with those coastal communities, and that needs to be built in, I think, to everything we do. In fact, the Wales coasts and seas partnership that we have, the partnership that brings together fisheries, renewables, coastal communities, agencies all in one, is a classic example of how you bring all those voices around a table to discuss the way forward.

You mentioned monitoring. Monitoring needs to be built into everything we do, and some of the monitoring of the—. We already have an extensive amount of things that we measure and we monitor within the marine environment, but, actually, the potential that we have in bringing forward the environmental governance and biodiversity Bill also gives us more ability now to fill some of those gaps of things that we do not monitor, but we've got to pick the right things that we want to measure, fill those gaps in there and then make sure that we do monitor it. This is a dynamic environment as well. It's not as if we have a perfect science, because some of the things that we're—. I was saying that it's a very congested marine environment; it really is. Our coastal and marine environment is very congested; there are great demands upon it. So, we're going to have to learn as well as we go, take that precautionary approach, but, when we get into actually sustainably using the marine environment, we have to measure what it's doing, actually, and adjust as we go forward.

We do, indeed, do a lot already in terms of global research and leadership. We're looking forward to playing a prominent role. Sometimes, we don't shout loud enough, actually, about what we do in that field already. There are opportunities in the year ahead, where we're hoping to highlight some of the work that we are doing here in Wales already, including with things such as the seagrass restoration and so on, but also to learn from others as well. 

One final thing I wanted to mention here, because you talked about investment—. I think we recognise that we're never going to have—. It's a bit like health; we're never going to have enough to do everything that we want. But if we can put in place very high-integrity systems to bring in partners who are willing to fund, and some of those are going to be partners who are, actually, going to be benefiting from their investment within the marine environment—. That's why the marine fund Cymru investment that I've announced today on the way forward, looking at that high-integrity sustainable investment, is a good way forward. And this fund will—. Just to say that contributions to the fund will not be linked to the planning and consenting process in Wales. However, there are opportunities to learn from the investment: habitat restoration and evaluation of the benefits, processes to inform development of future policy—so, for example, in the net benefit for biodiversity or for things such as blue carbon investment as well. So, this is really innovative; it's really cutting edge. We're looking forward to seeing what partners want to step up to the mark and help us with that.

Thank you for your statement today, Cabinet Secretary. I just want to say now that I'm a bit concerned regarding carbon capture and storage, storing it offshore in old gas caverns. I've got a report that I'd like to share with you, and I'll send it through to you.

The Marine Conservation Society have been campaigning for restrictions on the release of so-called forever chemicals. They're used in the manufacture of everyday products, ranging from greaseproof paper to raincoats. These chemicals are currently impossible to remove from the ocean, and they're such a large family of chemicals that it's really hard to regulate them in a chemical-by-chemical approach—it would just take too long. These chemicals have already been proven to have a negative impact on wildlife, including the immune systems of dolphins and otters. So, does the Cabinet Secretary have plans, through the new environment Bill, to introduce robust mechanisms that limit the use and release of forever chemicals and other pollutants into our Welsh oceans?

Thank you very much indeed. There were two things that you raised there; one, carbon capture and storage. I was down only last week in Milford Haven talking to companies who are trying to evolve, as part of this transition that we often talk about, away from industries of previous decades and so on into industries that can, actually—. Some of them might well deploy carbon capture and storage. But they're very cognisant of the fact that, to do this, it has to be with the strictest of regulation around it and the strictest of controls around it. There is potential here, as part of the just transition, to actually invest in carbon capture and storage. But you're absolutely right in what you're saying: it needs to be done safely and correctly, and the scale we're talking about doing it on is way beyond what's done in a small test example, so we have to get it absolutely right. We'll work not only here within Wales but also with the UK Government as well, and I'll be working with other Cabinet Secretaries to make sure that we have our approach right here in Wales.

On the forever chemicals, I'm aware of this and I'm aware of the work that MCS and others have been doing on it. It doesn't translate automatically into the legislation that we're bringing forward, but I think there are other ways that we can actually look at dealing with this, because it is one of those fields that has been emerging in very recent years with the awareness of the impacts of these so-called forever chemicals not only in the marine environment, but actually wider in our environment, including within soil et cetera et cetera. So, I'm interested in—. I know that I'll be meeting with MCS periodically in my role; I'm sure they'll put this on the table. But if you want to share anything more with me—I think you mentioned that you had a paper on this—by all means send it to me, and I'll have a look. Thank you.

Cabinet Secretary, as the puffin species champion, I'm pleased that you referred to the Welsh Government's sea bird conservation strategy in your statement. One essential aspect of the strategy should be robust island biosecurity, to ensure that our internationally important populations of breeding sea birds are protected from invasive non-native species, such as brown rats. Funding for the current biosecurity for Wales project comes to an end in March next year, and it's vital that this work can continue.

Now, the project plays a critical role in rapidly responding to incidents, such as the recent event on Skokholm island where a lifeboat was stuck on the rocks and started leaking fuel. As part of the response, the biosecurity for Wales team were deployed to search for any rats that may have stowed away on the vessel. Had any made their way onto the island, this could have led to devastating consequences for the nesting sea birds. So, Cabinet Secretary, I can't stress enough just how important this is, and it's crucial that the Welsh Government identifies funding and a delivery mechanism so that it can continue. Therefore, can you provide assurances today that the Welsh Government will continue to support the delivery of sea bird island biosecurity in Wales, and can you also provide some timescales on when we can expect to hear more detail about the level of funding that will be used to underpin the expected Welsh sea bird conservation strategy?

Thank you. On both points, on the Welsh sea bird conservation strategy, we are very committed to that, and I think the work we've done in that area already is showing its benefits, and, clearly, we'd want to continue that work. The work that's been done I've seen first-hand, I think, alongside you and other Members—. I've forgotten the name of the dog that actually was deployed recently on Skokholm island—was it Jaz? Oh, crikey, it'll come to me now. But that incredible dog that actually does the searching for rats and infestation. And I've been out there to Skokholm island as well to see him doing it in situ. Indeed, he was deployed in the recent incident as well. So, we're very aware of the importance of this in terms of our sea bird population. I can't give you an announcement today, on the floor of the Senedd here today, but we are acutely aware of the importance of that work, because we have some of the most precious—not simply puffins; puffins amongst them—of sea bird populations on many of our vulnerable island habitats. I can't give you the signal that you're looking for right here today on the floor, but we're very aware of the significance of this work, and the importance of it.

Diolch, Cabinet Secretary, for your statement. Over half the area of Wales is made up of the marine environment and is home to a huge variety of habitats and marine life. We are lucky enough to have important colonies of sea birds, like the puffins that have just been mentioned, but also Manx shearwaters off Skomer island, terns off Anglesey, bottlenose dolphins in Cardigan bay and grey seals around the coast of Pembrokeshire. So, the seas are vital to our health and economy, but they're facing unprecedented challenges, which include, but are not limited to, climate change, warming of the seas and having catastrophic consequences of overfishing, pollution, plus many other forms of invasive species.

But there is great work going on, with investment from Welsh Government, such as the restoration of seagrass—that's been mentioned—meadows in some coastal areas, like Llŷn, and in collaboration with Swansea university, and they are really hugely important to sustaining that local wildlife, and that collaboration is key in helping to restore the environment. But over half of Welsh waters do have some kind of legal protection. We have, I believe, 139 marine protected areas in Wales, and one marine conservation zone around Skomer. But despite this, many of our marine environments are not thriving and are in unfavourable conditions due to the multitude of reasons that I and others have outlined. So, sustainable management of these habitats is crucial in order to help them thrive.

So, Cabinet Secretary, I'm very keen to know what steps the Welsh Government are taking to improve the management of those marine protected areas, so that they can thrive for our future generations, and I'd welcome more detail on MARINE Cymru and the role that will play in drawing sustainable investment into a much needed area.

Thank you very much indeed, Joyce. MARINE Cymru, indeed, because of the remit we're giving to it, could well play some potential within this area of habitat restoration and protection of our marine environment. But on the MPA network that you mentioned, quite rightly you say it's not simply the designations; it's the way we monitor and manage them effectively. The management of them is hugely important. But we do have an extensive MPA network and what we want to ensure is that these sites and the features within them remain in favourable condition, and indeed can improve as well. So, the MPA network management grant scheme offers competitive funding for proposals that can improve the understanding of a pressure, or is a direct intervention in that management site. Recently, Welsh Government has announced a new funding window for new proposals to be put forward to input into the 2024 MPA management action plan.

Just to refresh our memories here—because we'll have seen some of these projects over the last few years—last year alone, funding was allocated in 2023 to four significant projects being delivered by Welsh universities, which we've talked about already, and by non-governmental organisations as well, totalling over £100,000. These projects included research to develop climate change profiles for Welsh marine habitats, improving understanding of migratory fish in the Severn estuary—and I should declare an interest, as I believe I remain as the Atlantic salmon champion here within the Senedd—and the development of a surveillance plan for Grassholm island as well.

Just to add, finally, Natural Resources Wales are currently undertaking a process to update our MPA condition assessments, which will be fundamental to helping us understand the potential interventions that we need to improve our marine features. We look to complete this—if it's helpful to give an outline of the timetable—some time in 2025, but that work is ongoing. Thank you.

Thank you, Cabinet Secretary, for your statement today. I'm delighted that you have mentioned Project Seagrass because, as many Members might know, I'm the Senedd seagrass champion, and I'm very keen to make sure that the Welsh Government doesn't forget its commitment to seagrass restoration. As the Cabinet Secretary may already know, the biggest issues now facing the seagrass community are the onerous and time-consuming tasks of obtaining marine licensing certificates, the high fees that are associated with them, and the strict regulations that stop them from using vehicles on beaches during the harvesting and planting of seagrass. With this in mind, what steps are you taking to make seagrass planting exempt from marine licensing or to allow permitted organisations such as Project Seagrass and the WWF to obtain one single licence that covers the whole of Wales?

I would also be interested to know your thoughts on seaweed, specifically the development of a commercial seaweed farming industry in Wales, as this has great potential for us, but suffers from similar licensing issues. Thank you.

Thank you very much. We’d definitely be supportive of any measures to introduce a sustainable seaweed industry for food and other uses, because I understand that seaweed now is available for other uses as well, and to do that in a sustainable manner. One of our great successes in Wales, actually, is the work that we have done in the food and drink sector, and much of this is predicated upon some very local and novel innovations within our food sector. I was, only a fortnight ago, up at Halen Môn, off Ynys Môn, looking at the work that they’re doing, and they continue to grow as well.

On salt marsh, I don't have any proposals in front of me to exempt salt marsh restoration from the consenting process, but I'm keen to engage with our environmental NGOs and others who are currently working on this to see what barriers they do have going forward. But I am pleased that we've been able to award the funding to Project Seagrass through the nature networks fund. It is an important step towards our seagrass restoration in Wales, and I'm looking forward to seeing how that project progresses. And I'm sure that there is more potential as well, but I'm always keen to work with those organisations on the ground to see how we can take it further forward and what obstacles they are encountering.

Thank you, Cabinet Secretary. 

Item 6 is next, a statement by the Cabinet Secretary for North Wales and Transport on D-day and Armed Forces Week, and I call on the Cabinet Secretary, Ken Skates. 

Diolch, Llywydd. Last week marked the eightieth anniversary of D-day, a day long in planning, heavy in sacrifice, suffering and loss from many countries, and a critical milestone in the liberation of Europe from Nazi oppression. This year is particularly significant. D-day 80 is very much a milestone commemoration, where we are still fortunate to have living testimony from amongst the veteran community of their part in this historic event. 

The First Minister represented Wales at the commemoration event at the British memorial in Normandy on 6 June. This was primarily a day for those last surviving veterans; however, it also provided opportunity for the people of Wales to remember the important contribution we made as a nation. I had the pleasure recently to meet 99-year-old D-day veteran Donald Jones at his home in Mold. Donald was in the Royal Navy, crewing a landing-craft on D-day. I was incredibly humbled by his experience and sacrifice in the name of freedom.

The South Wales Borderers landed early on D-day in the second wave of one of the British sectors at Gold beach—the only Welsh unit to land that day, advancing nine miles inland. The First Minister was able to honour their memory, laying a wreath at their memorial in Asnelles during his visit last week. The United Kingdom memorial, which provided the focus for the UK commemoration, bears amongst its 22,000 names many from Wales who served in the army, the navy and the Royal Air Force who lost their lives on D-day or later in the Normandy campaign, across 85 hard days of fighting.

Acts of commemoration to mark D-day 80 recently took place in communities across Wales too, and will continue across this month with Armed Forces Week on the horizon. I am sure that Members will have been present at many of these events and wish to celebrate those in their contributions today.

We have some 115,000 veterans living in Wales; one in 12 households have someone who has previously served. Some like to be called ‘veterans’, others choose something different or not to declare. Our veteran population is predominantly male and elderly, but slowly changing to mirror our wider population. In the main, they are a successful and achieving population to be celebrated, set up for life by the skills and values acquired through their service, with jobs, homes and good health. That said, service life is unique for service people and for their families, and that's why we have an armed forces covenant as a safeguard to act against the potential for disadvantage from having served, and, in some cases, to justify prioritisation in relation to health, housing, education and employment.

As Welsh Government, we continue to support our armed forces community. Our investment in specialised mental health support continues through Veterans' NHS Wales. Our NHS Wales chief executive wrote to local health boards and NHS trusts just last month on the armed forces covenant, identifying services and resources available across Wales, including how some health boards are funding peer mentors to provide additional support in this area. Organisations have been asked to consider awareness of and compliance with the due regard duty, and of Welsh Government’s intentions to conduct an annual baseline review across healthcare in Wales.

Awareness of veterans is vital, and that's why we have produced an accreditation scheme with training for GP practices. Encouraging practices to sign up is something we can all do within our constituencies and our regions. Our funding for armed forces liaison officers continues, and I'll shortly be considering the recommendations from an external evaluation, looking at 2025-26 and beyond. We also continue to fund the Supporting Service Children in Education Cymru project, reflecting the challenges that mobility places on young people’s lives. 

Llywydd, we provide 7 per cent of the armed forces strength, from just 5 per cent of the UK population. Service is usually outside Wales. Service people acquire great skills and values, and we are in competition to secure this talent. We want service people from Wales to return home and contribute to our country.

This is a time of year when, through Armed Forces Week and Armed Forces Day, we both celebrate and remember those who serve: regular and reserve. We celebrate the contribution they make to the defence of the country and to wider society. That contribution will be celebrated nationally in Swansea, in tandem with their airshow on 6 July, and in other local events across Wales. We've previously supported the local authority hosting this Wales-level event with up to £20,000 towards their running costs of this important day, and I am pleased to maintain this level of support to Swansea Council this year and to Monmouthshire County Council for 2025.

Regular and reserve service is demanding on service people and on their families. Supportive and understanding employers are key. In my own portfolio, for example, Transport for Wales demonstrate the art of the possible as gold award holders in the defence employer recognition scheme; and Cardiff Bus have started that journey too, with their signing of the armed forces covenant in April. We work with the Career Transition Partnership, the armed services and the Reserve Forces and Cadets Associations to help that search for good jobs here in Wales. We have been doing this through employment fairs and workshops in south Wales, and we are shortly to hold our first north Wales event in Wrexham.

In conclusion, Llywydd, we celebrate and say thanks for the sacrifice of those who gave their lives on the Normandy beaches and also more widely in world war two. We celebrate also our serving armed forces and veterans through Armed Forces Week and Armed Forces Day, and as Cabinet Secretary with responsibility for armed forces, veterans and their families in Wales, I commit to playing my fullest part in supporting them.

I'd like to thank the Cabinet Secretary for your statement this afternoon and outlining the Welsh Government's contribution to our armed forces community across Wales. I want to join with you and my group in your commitment, and our commitment, to veterans and their families across our country. Their service and sacrifice deserves our deepest gratitude. As you rightly mentioned, Wales does punch above its weight in terms of our armed forces personnel. Ensuring their well-being is paramount, because Wales does send the most service personnel, out of any part of the UK, to serve in our armed forces.

You mentioned D-day, and we all join together to respect those who gave so much during those D-day landings, and they made the ultimate sacrifice to ensure our freedoms. And I just think it's absolutely phenomenal what they did, and what they had to go through, to make sure that we actually have got peace in mainland Europe. I attended an event in Llandrindod Wells, and I was deeply moved by some of the contributions that people made there and actually the stories that some of the people told me.

Cabinet Secretary, I'd like to dive a little deeper, if that's okay, into a few areas you mentioned in your statement. You mentioned the review of the armed forces liaison officers programme. You mentioned that, and it is very critical that we keep that programme going; they do absolutely phenomenal work. But it'll be understanding the recommendations that'll be vital for advocating for their continued support, so perhaps you could share some initial areas of focus for the review that you're having, and how you will engage with stakeholders, going forward.

You also mentioned the support for armed forces personnel within our health boards and the peer support system that they've got there. Something that the cross-party group on the armed forces has talked about is having dedicated people within the health boards who fully understand our armed forces and armed forces personnel, and whether they could be funded by the Welsh Government to create full-time posts. I'd be interested to know your views on that, because, as a group, we were going to write to you on that, so if you've got any updates on that, I'd be very grateful.

You also talked about mental health support for veterans, and I think some of the work Welsh Government has done around that is commendable and to be celebrated, actually; I think we should always find areas of common ground that we agree on, and I think that is one place we do. Increasing funding is a positive, but perhaps you could elaborate more on the specific programmes that the Welsh Government is pushing, with health boards, because many veterans may be very hesitant to go out and seek support because of what they've actually had to go through, and it creates quite a macho culture, where people don't actually want to seek support. So, I think if you could outline today what programmes are available, it might actually help anybody who's listening from our veterans community to go and seek the support that they need.

Furthermore, I do strongly agree with you about encouraging employers across Wales to engage with the defence employer recognition scheme. Showcasing best practice is important—as you say, from Transport for Wales and Cardiff Bus. It's a great start. However, can you elaborate on any additional plans to promote the scheme across the country and best practice to Welsh businesses of all sizes, highlighting the valuable contribution that veterans can bring to the table in the workplace and the skills that they've learnt within our armed forces? 

Another thing I wanted to talk to you about was the role of armed forces champions within our local authorities. I think they do fantastic work within councils across the country in raising the profile of our armed forces in local government. In my own local authority in Powys, the local authority there has taken a decision to remove our champion roles. I think that's a mistake, especially in terms of the armed forces champion role. I'd be interested to know your thoughts, Cabinet Secretary, on that to make sure that we do have strong representation from our councillors in local government, because a lot of the services that veterans require are the responsibility of our local authorities across Wales.

I also believe in the continued collaboration that you've talked about between public bodies. As I've just said, it's important for supporting our armed forces community. And effective communication and outreach strategies are vital to ensuring, as I've said earlier, our mental health support, housing support—exactly what people are aware is available and how they can access them. From my end, Cabinet Secretary, I am committed to working with you in this area, as, I know, is the chair of the cross-party armed forces group, Darren Millar, who has done phenomenal work in raising the profile of our armed forces community here in the Senedd. I know he would like to be making a statement himself, but he can't, I'm afraid—he's not here.

Additionally, I'd like to echo finally some of the sentiments you made around Armed Forces Week. I think that is another great event that happens across our country to highlight our armed forces and the work they do to keep us safe day in, day out, night and day. They go to some of the most dangerous places in the world to make sure that we can actually sleep safe in our beds at night. I think anything we can do to support them more is to be encouraged, and I'm pleased with the money that the Welsh Government is providing to do that. I wish we could have a bit more money to support Armed Forces Week right across the country, but maybe you could talk about that.

In closing, Cabinet Secretary, I'd like to thank you once again for your statement and say I look forward to working collaboratively with you to support our armed forces community here across Wales to make sure they feel cherished and empowered for the vital role they play in our society. Diolch. 

Diolch, James Evans. Can I thank James sincerely for a heartfelt tribute to our armed forces and our veterans? I know James is clearly passionate about this area of Welsh Government responsibility, and I do thank him for his questions today. There were a number of very valuable points that were raised, including the mental health of our armed forces veterans and serving personnel, the defence employer recognition scheme, and the role of local authorities in supporting and promoting the armed forces of Wales and the wider United Kingdom.

In terms of D-day, I would agree it was a most remarkable occasion. I think it was C.S. Lewis who said that we read so that we know that we are not alone, and I think it's invaluable at this time of year to read the stories of those who gave so much for Europe in the darkest of times. I personally attended the commemoration in Wrexham and followed this with a visit to the city's armed forces community hub. In regard to mental health, that hub has proved to be invaluable. It's a fantastic means by which veterans are able to access information, be steered towards relevant support groups, and I know that similar hubs exist across Wales. For example, near Wrexham, in Colwyn Bay, there is an equally effective hub that serves the armed forces community, and indeed their families as well, and I'm looking to do all I can to support the growth of such hubs, because they are vital in helping armed forces veterans access the services that they need.

A huge amount of work is taking place within the NHS. I referenced a letter to local health boards recently that invited them to look at best practice across Wales. It's absolutely essential that we learn from the very best, and that same message applies to local authorities. I was with the local authority armed forces champion on Thursday and then again on Friday in Wrexham. You may know the armed forces champion in Wrexham, Councillor Beverley Parry-Jones, a fantastic advocate for armed forces veterans. I was very pleased to be with her at both those events. I think some local authorities are to be commended on the way that they do support their armed forces champions, and I would advocate all 22 local authorities maintaining the support for them.

With regard to the defence employer recognition scheme, this has been massively valuable as well, and it's something that I've discussed with a number of employers. Indeed, I was recently at Zip World, meeting Sean Taylor, who has an incredible passion for supporting the armed forces and veterans. It's through employer groups such as the CBI that we are able to promote the defence employer recognition scheme, as well as through some of the regional employer groups that exists in Wales.

In regard to armed forces liaison officers, I would agree that these have been held in the greatest regard across Wales. They really are fantastic. I was with the armed forced liaison officer, again in Wrexham, on a number of occasions last week, discussing issues that face the armed forces—serving personnel, veterans and their families—and the role that they play in their communities. Funding has been confirmed again—£275,000—and we do know that our AFLOs are highly valued for the work that they do, but I think it's also important that we take stock of this, to consider how we deliver for veterans over the longer term. That's why we commissioned an evaluation of the network of AFLOs to help inform long-term planning. My view is that AFLOs have been invaluable, and the question is not whether they should continue to be supported, it's whether we can actually expand their role and how we can support them in discharging their functions. I will, of course, engage widely with stakeholders and partners regarding the future of AFLOs across Wales, and I would be very pleased to bring the recommendations to the cross-party group for armed forces. Diolch.

Thank you, Cabinet Secretary, for your statement today. It's good to hear about the resources being invested in improving the lives of veterans. In Wales, veterans make up 4.5 per cent of the adult population, compared to 3.8 per cent in England. It's crucial that we ensure their treatment is handled correctly here in Wales. As we've heard this afternoon, there's agreement that recognition shouldn't be limited to just one week a year on Armed Forces Week. Increasing awareness and an understanding of the needs of the armed forces community is a continuous effort.

I'd like to ask the Cabinet Secretary about a number of issues I raised at Armed Forces Week last year to understand the progress that has been made. There needs to be equality of service for veterans, regardless of where they live in Wales. There are good examples of health boards following the military covenant, but I flagged to the Deputy Minister for Social Partnership last year that I had heard anecdotal evidence that some health boards were not paying it the regard it deserves. Given the struggles the Welsh NHS is currently facing, how is the Welsh Government monitoring compliance with the military convenant and ensuring successes across all health boards, including dental care, which I've raised here on a number of occasions? Last year, we saw the launch of the veteran-friendly GP accreditation scheme. We were lagging way behind England when it came to this initiative. What percentage of our GP practices have now been accredited? Have we caught up with England?

Finally, Cabinet Secretary, I'd like to make a broader point. Our armed forces, which comprise of relatives of my family, fought to keep us safe and against the rising fascism in Europe, but across Wales and England we have seen a rise in discrimination and hate—whether that is racism, Islamophobia, antisemitism or homophobia—over the last few years. In the course of this general election, we've seen concerning comments about Hitler emerge that have led to an apology from a certain right-wing candidate. I'd like to just put a reminder out there that we must remain vigilant against all forms of hate and discrimination as well as uphold the values of tolerance and inclusion. This would be one of the best ways in which we could honour the sacrifices of those who fought against tyranny in world war two. We continue to fight and stand firm against hate and oppression in all its forms. We continue to stand on what they fought and died for, and we will remember them.

Peredur, can I thank you for recognising the value of our armed forces—our serving personnel and our veterans and their families? I think to the point that you made towards the end of your contribution, there is no place for hate and discrimination whatsoever. This is something that I discussed recently with the armed forces commissioner and it is certainly something that is being given more priority in terms of the forward work programme, including discrimination against LGBTQ+ serving personnel and veterans and ensuring that we stamp out any sort of online abuse of people who have served and given so much.

Through NHS Wales, we are able to monitor adherence to the armed forces covenant, and on 14 May, the chief executive of the Welsh NHS wrote to all health boards to remind them of their duties. With the permission of the NHS Wales chief executive, I would be more than happy to circulate the letter that has been distributed, because I think it does raise the important points that Peredur has highlighted today around the need for consistency of the highest standard across all health boards, no matter where armed forces personnel and veterans live. I will endeavor to do that as soon as possible, provided I reach agreement with the NHS Wales chief executive on distributing that letter.

In terms of dental services, this is an area, of course, where we've been working with the armed forces. We've been providing advice on how to make contact with health boards in advance of posting to Wales and highlighting to health boards service children and their mobility as a particular factor for consideration in relation to the duty of due regard. Peredur also makes an important point about the accreditation programme for general practices in Wales. So far, 38 practices have signed up. It is still lagging behind England, unfortunately, but the scheme in England has been operating for longer, and we are doing all we can to promote this particular scheme to GP services across Wales. Certainly, I would welcome any assistance that Members can offer in promoting this scheme in their respective areas. Diolch.

It's right and proper that we commemorate the bravery of all these soldiers and sailors and other people who were involved in the invasion of Normandy, which was obviously the beginning of the end of Hitler and his appalling regime. But I want to speak today about the largest loss of life since the second world war, which occurred on 8 June 1982. Last Saturday was the forty-second anniversary of the bombing of Sir Galahad, and it is merely coincidental that the meeting I hosted in the Pierhead this afternoon also occurs, presciently, on Armed Forces Week. I'm very glad that you were able to come along briefly and hear some of the people who are mourning the 58 people who died, the 150 people who were physically injured, not discounting the psychological impact on all the personnel who were on board who witnessed terrible things that they have never been able to forget.

On top of that, there is a psychological impact on all of the families who lost their fathers, their sons, their brothers, their uncles, and we heard really powerful testimony from them of the post-traumatic stress disorder inflicted on them—all of this exacerbated by a relentless campaign of blame against the Welsh Guards, as if they were in some way responsible for being stuck on this ship, with no way of getting off it apart from through one landing craft, which was faulty and could not lower its ramp. So, anybody who was getting off the ship had to be abseiled down from the cargo ship that they were on. It is disgraceful to read in the Ministry of Defence's commemoration 40 years on that on the MOD official log there are still people talking about them being unfit and unable to walk across the Falklands. This is a complete travesty of what actually happened.

This problem is made worse in that it's still going on, because the navy and the marines were so desperate to make it their triumph in the face of all the cuts that otherwise were going to occur back in 1982, and the fact that all the documents have not been released to enable these people who are now in their 60s; they were very young when this occurred to them, but now they are in their 60s, and their families, many of them are dead, and they have gone to their graves not being able to hear that they were completely exonerated and to understand the reasons why this terrible and avoidable tragedy occurred. So, it is outrageous that so many of these documents are being withheld till 2065, when I certainly will not be around, and nor will many of them.

So, I know that this is not a devolved matter, but what can you as well as the rest of us do to assist the Welsh Guards in getting justice and clarity on what went wrong, and particularly the board of inquiry that occurred within the very same year, that all these documents have not been released? Mrs Thatcher is dead, Admiral Fieldhouse is dead, yet we still do not know why all these terrible things occurred, which means that we are destined to repeat them. If we do not understand how not to conduct war, then that is what will happen. So, what do you think, Cabinet Secretary, you and the Government and the rest of us in the Senedd can do to help the Welsh Guards get justice?

Can I thank Jenny Rathbone for her contribution, and more importantly, for the events that she hosted at lunchtime today in the Pierhead building? The accounts of psychological impact, those who were attending, were potent and very difficult to listen to. They highlighted the continued feeling of deep injustice, and my thoughts are with all those for whom the Falklands campaign, and in particular the 8 June 1982 tragedy involving the Sir Galahad and Sir Tristram—. It was a tragedy for the Welsh Guards and for Wales in particular.

The release of some files earlier in the year was welcome, so too the clear statements then that the Welsh Guards were not to blame in any way, and I do know that there is a campaign that was discussed over lunchtime for complete release of files. It's an ongoing campaign; it's a matter for the MoD to address, but it is something that I will be raising with whomever my counterpart is following the UK general election, because securing truth and transparency is vital for the Welsh Guards.

The incident was horrific. Jenny Rathbone has outlined the human loss at the time, the injuries and the ongoing impact that it is having on scores upon scores of people who wish to see closure to the pain that they're suffering.

And can I finally just pay tribute to the Member herself? I know that, as a journalist, Jenny Rathbone has pursued the truth in regard to this matter, and I will work with Jenny and others in making sure that the Ministry of Defence listens to the concerns of those who spoke today.

Cabinet Secretary, you'll be aware that I've been campaigning for several years for the better protection of war memorials in Wales, which I believe is one way in which we can show our respect and gratitude to those who paid the ultimate sacrifice for our freedoms.

Now, you'll know I've called for a statutory duty on our local authorities to record war memorials in their own areas and for each council to have a designated war memorial officer who would be a public source of information on how best to protect local war memorials and who would also visit schools and colleges to talk to pupils about the importance of past conflicts, and why war memorials are such an important part of our community. So, Cabinet Secretary, I've raised this with many of your predecessors, but there's been little progress on this front, and so perhaps you could tell us whether the Welsh Government will once again look at this proposal, and also could you tell us what it's doing to generally protect war memorials across Wales?

Can I thank Paul Davies for his contribution and the question regarding the future of war memorials? Some of course are protected through Cadw designation as monuments, but many, many, many more are not, and they are largely protected by virtue of civic society respecting them, but sadly, in some instances and in some places, that is not the case, and they are defaced, they are vandalised. That is totally unacceptable.

I wish to work with our local authority armed forces champions, who are probably best placed to identify all memorials across Wales, and to ensure that we are giving due consideration to how we better protect them in the future. There is no condoning any defacing or vandalism of war memorials, but I'll be pleased to work with the Member, with the cross-party group, and, as I say, the local authority armed forces champions to discuss other ways that we might be able to protect them in the future.

Thank you for the important statement, Cabinet Secretary. I was honoured to represent the communities of Islwyn constituency at a D-day memorial service organised by the Royal British Legion district branch of the war memorial in Cefn Fforest, so I wish to also recognise their partnership working with Cefn Fforest community association, and the vital work of Caerphilly county borough's armed forces champion, Teresa Heron. And I do want to use this opportunity to say 'thank you' to all.

It was so heartening to see such a big presence from the local community wishing to pay their respects to the veterans of Operation Overlord, and I was, myself, moved to hear first-hand of the experiences of veteran Seth Thomas, who is 96 years of age, and who is looking forward to discussing more with me next year. There was a poignant poetry recital from Islwyn High School, followed by pupils from Cefn Fforest primary, who sang wonderfully our national anthems and songs from the 1940s. I also want to thank Julie Farmer, headteacher, and her staff for their year-round commitment as a school to recognising the role of past sacrifices in the education of future generations. And as these events slowly move from living testimony from the last surviving veterans, it is crucial that we pass on the torch of knowledge to tomorrow's citizens, tomorrow's leaders and tomorrow's military. I commend the communities across Islwyn, including Risca, Abercarn and Newbridge, who held services of remembrance.

Llywydd, as we see the rising of the far right across Europe once again, and volatility and instability across the world, what can the Welsh Government do to ensure that future generations learn and understand the events of D-day? And noting the Commonwealth War Graves Commission's recent findings that only 48 per cent of people aged 18 to 34 recognised what D-day was, how do we in this place cement their sacrifice and their legacy, both for today's children and for the defenders of our nation tomorrow?

Can I thank Rhianon Passmore for an incredibly heartfelt contribution this afternoon and for the work that Rhianon does more widely, year round, in promoting the armed forces and promoting the value of our veterans in our communities across Wales? Rhianon talked about how she was moved to hear the stories from the people that she met on D-day. I have to say the First Minister and I feel the same way about the stories that we heard on D-day. The First Minister in Normandy met Donald Jones, who I'd met just days before in Mold—99 years old. I met him with his fantastic son. It was moving, just as you've described, for two reasons, actually—one because of the experience of fighting for Britain and fighting for peace in Europe, and also because Donald and his son actually knew my late father, so we were able to talk about someone that we both knew. Vaughan Gething also met with Reginald Pye, who served in the Royal Engineers, who went to Normandy as well. It's from hearing these real-life stories that sadly, tragically, will not always be the case because of the age of our veterans—. That's what really reminds us of our role as civilians in society and the value of civil society.

It is my view that we are seeing, sadly, the growth of extremism on all sides of the political spectrum. The only way that we can push back against that is by ensuring that progressives and centrists protect civility, and we do not accept the arguments based on what they may call alternative truths, but that many of us call untruths, and instead that we do pursue the objective truth at all times. I'm afraid that the growth of extremism is being fuelled by a lack of objective truth and the peddling of untruths. I think that's what the Welsh Government can focus on in making sure that people are armed with facts and with the truth.

I would just like to say how lovely the tributes have been here for the D-day commemoration. I took part in three events. I went to Conwy, the Mulberry stone, and then I went to Llandudno cenotaph, and I also went to the bandstand in the evening of Thursday. Every service was very special, and it was an honour to be present.

Four thousand four hundred allied personnel died on D-day. Over 70,000 gave their lives during the battle of Normandy and they changed the course of war and secured the freedoms and democracy that we now enjoy in this nation and across Europe. Aberconwy played a key role in this campaign, with so many involved. Alongside men and women going to the front line, key preparations were made at the estuary of the Conwy river. It is there, ahead of D-day, that around 1,000 people worked on developing Mulberry harbours.

On the eightieth anniversary, I believe that it is incumbent upon us as Members of this Senedd and the Welsh Government to look at what we can do to highlight local connections to D-day. By strengthening the understanding of these local links, we can help to ensure that our locals remember and understand the significance of what did happen eight decades ago. And I would like to thank the Minister for his statement and the reassurances; the points that have been made about the health service and whether our veterans and ex-service military personnel are receiving support with homes, support with mental health conditions and support generally, with their health needs—those are things that I feel we need more information on, as a Senedd. But, Minister, will you clarify what steps the Welsh Government will be taking to take forward and to help promote the role that all individuals in north Wales played in preparation for D-day? We will never forget them and I have to say that it's probably been one of the most emotional weeks of commemoration that I have known since I've been an elected Member, and that's 30 years. I just feel that we need to raise this more and more in our Welsh Parliament. Thank you.

And I just want to pay tribute to Darren Millar for the work that he does, working with the armed forces and the veterans. It's important that we all, each and every one of us, appreciates those who gave their lives for us just to be able to sit in the Senedd. Diolch yn fawr. 

Can I thank Janet Finch-Saunders for taking the time, as she outlined, to pay respect on multiple occasions, to those who gave their lives and to those who are still suffering today and their families in north Wales, and in particular in her constituency? It strikes me that, today, we see more people, not fewer, attending such commemorations, and in particular Remembrance Sunday, I think, certainly from my own experience, is attracting more and more people every single November. And I think that demonstrates that respect is still highly valued in society. And to the point made by Rhianon Passmore, people generally, in society, regardless of what we see on social media, are incredibly respectful and dignified in the way that they go about their daily lives, and respect our armed forces in particular.

I do believe that, in terms of promoting local links, there's a role for education here, and I think with the new curriculum and the significance of events through the year, through history, there is no doubt that the new curriculum will be utilised to promote the value of our veterans community and the importance of our armed forces in our communities as well.

Janet Finch-Saunders made reference to health and what we are doing to promote services for veterans with regard to health services. Of course, the covenant applies very much to the NHS. And as has already been raised by Peredur, we do have the GP accreditation scheme. Now, it was launched last year, and so far, around 10 per cent of practices in Wales have signed up. It's only a year old, but I would encourage all Members to promote that particular scheme, and also to work with armed forces liaison officers as well in identifying how we, as elected Members, can help them in their work in their communities. Diolch.

Finally, Joyce Watson.

Diolch, Llywydd. I want to thank you for your statement today, and I want to join Ministers and colleagues here today, and outside, in paying tribute to those who risked their lives, and those who, sadly, gave their lives, for our futures, and recognise the huge debt of gratitude to armed forces personnel and veterans. The second battalion of the South Wales Borderers advanced the furthest inland of all the units that landed on the Normandy beaches on D-day. Like me, many Welsh families have personal connections to the efforts to end the war and to liberate Europe.

I'm pleased that Labour has committed to a new package of support for members of the armed forces and also their families, and to setting up a new armed forces commissioner as a strong, independent champion for them. A new armed forces covenant will ensure that everyone who serves or has served in the armed forces and their families are treated with fairness and respect. So, Cabinet Secretary, can you please give assurances to those serving and those who have served that the Welsh Government will stand by them when they find themselves in their hour of need?

Yes, I absolutely will, and I know that Joyce Watson, throughout her career, has done so as well, has been a powerful advocate for the interests of veterans and the armed forces that we see serving on a daily basis in Wales and further afield as well in conflict. The reservists as well—we should not forget the role of reservists and the importance of their contribution either.

Many of our veterans are elderly and rely on key flagship schemes that the Welsh Government is responsible for, including free prescriptions and free bus passes. Also, veterans rely on the armed forces covenant, and I am very interested in the potential for a new armed forces covenant, which Joyce Watson has already outlined. I'm also very keen to learn more about the potential of creating a new armed forces commissioner who could hold the Government to account, an independent champion for serving forces and their families. It would require legislation, and I believe that that particular policy may well be in the first King's Speech, depending on the outcome of the UK general election, but it's something that I would expect to be consulted on and to be a part of in the design of such legislation. It may be a reserved matter, but it is something that has significant relevance to Wales, and I'd want to be fully involved in that framing of the legislation. Diolch.

I thank the Cabinet Secretary.

Item 7 is our next item, a statement by the Minister for Social Partnership: the retail sector—contributing to Wales's economic mission. I call on the Minister to make the statement—Sarah Murphy.

Diolch, Llywydd. Last year, in partnership with the retail forum, we published the retail action plan. It provided a clear focus on action and engagement, enabling clarity of contributions towards our shared vision for retail and our economic mission. With our social partners, we have made good progress in delivering against actions outlined in the plan. We have focused our energy on measures to support people who work in retail, the physical place retail inhabits in the wider town-centre landscape and ways in which retail can build its resilience.

Retail is one of the largest private sector employers in Wales, with 121,000 people employed in diverse roles and businesses, from major stores to the wide and varied mix of smaller, convenience and independent retailers across Wales. This is why the sector is important to me and why the Welsh Government is invested in supporting the social partnership to develop, bringing retailers, retail representative organisations, trade unions and Government together to collectively agree how to support this sector in Wales.  

Admittedly, the path is not always smooth. There are no quick fixes, easy solutions or infinite budgets. What we do have, however, is a willingness to work together and a forum that offers a space for members to hear each other’s points of view and reach consensus in agreeing a way forward, benefiting workers and employers alike.

Despite the challenging economic and consumer landscape, which has seen inflationary pressures and other issues impact retail, I am pleased to provide an update 12 months into the plan.

So, what have we done? The last year has seen a particular focus on the people actions in the plan, which aligns with the economic mission's key national priorities about skills, young people and the everyday economy. I believe the adoption of fair work principles will provide a significant pathway to addressing some of the issues faced by the sector. A better deal for workers is one of the keys to unlocking the door to a stronger, better, fairer and more sustainable future for the retail sector. This is why the theme of 'people' is a prominent part of the retail action plan.

In the last six months, we have seen average wages across the retail sector improve compared with Wales averages, which is good to hear, although we do recognise there is still a great deal of work to do to ensure those who work in the retail sector have access to fair, safe and secure work. Welsh Government is working with Cynnal Cymru, the living wage foundation accreditation partner in Wales, to better understand the barriers facing businesses in terms of real living wage adoption and accreditation. We will use the networks convened around the retail forum to share what we have learned. The retail forum has been active in discussing and interrogating the employability, skills and careers offering to the sector in Wales, and we will be publishing new web content to help stakeholders understand the skills landscape across Wales. This will enable members of the forum to engage with employers on the recruitment, retention and skills development of workers in the sector. A retail job should provide equitable access to learning and development to those who choose to pursue the opportunities and a career in retail.   

Retail crime and any abuse of retail workers is abhorrent, unacceptable and should not be tolerated. In the Union of Shop, Distributive and Allied Workers 2023 'Freedom from Fear' survey of UK shop workers, seven out of 10 respondents reported verbal abuse, and nearly 50 per cent reported that they had been threatened with violence in work. No-one should fear going to work or face physical or verbal abuse for simply doing their job. Although criminal justice is a reserved issue and the responsibility of the UK Government, I am committed to working with policing partners and using the levers at our collective disposal to prevent retail crime and ensure staff feel safer in their roles. That includes working with police and crime commissioners and local leaders in the retail sector and encouraging the Home Office to drive forward improvements. We had welcomed the UK Government's move to make a specific retail abuse offence through the Criminal Justice Bill. Although the Bill was discarded following the announcement of the UK general election, we will push for UK legislation in this space to proceed at pace once the election is concluded. 

Crucially, we are investing in retail. In 2024-25, we invested an additional £78 million to provide a fifth successive year of support for retail, leisure and hospitality businesses with their non-domestic rates bills. This builds on the almost £1 billion of support provided through our retail, leisure and hospitality rates relief schemes since 2020-21. Since the plan was launched in 2023, we have been able to roll out an extra £20 million through the futureproofing fund, which will help up to 2,500 businesses in the retail, leisure and hospitality sectors to invest in renewable energy technology, improvements to their premises and upgrades to systems or machinery to reduce energy use in 2024-25. This has been deliberately targeted at hospitality, leisure and retail as it confirms our commitment in the resilience element of the retail action plan. I expect to share news on how retail businesses have benefited from this in the coming year. We anticipate funding to help further advance the retail vision and deliver on the resilience chapters in the plan.

The retail sector is vital to the changing face of our town centres. The town centre position statement, published last year, sets out the challenges faced by town centres and how we will help to reinvigorate them. It connects strongly to our vision for the retail sector, and the actions in the position statement will enhance those in the retail action plan. We need to ensure both support and complement one another. I will be working closely with my Cabinet colleagues to ensure a joined-up approach is taken. I want to see more positive news about this sector, building on great examples that I have witnessed recently on a visit to Blaenau Ffestiniog, and what is happening in Treorchy, bringing together all the different agencies and interested parties so we can replicate this good work across Wales. 

Finally, what next? I look forward to continuing the good relationship with the retail forum and working together in social partnership to take forward and deliver more actions in the plan, specifically shining a light on the actions around place and resilience. I'm committed to working across the Cabinet to collaborate where there is opportunity to improve the retail environment for workers and customers alike, using our influence wherever we can to promote trade union access as the foundation to more collective voice and representation across the sector, and encouraging greater security on pay and working hours by promoting guaranteed hours and the real living wage.

I recognise that this sector is continually dealing with change, whether online, rising costs or shortage of labour, and I acknowledge that there is more to manage in the years ahead. I am appreciative of this sector for its continued engagement with Government, and I will continue to provide opportunities for open dialogue and close working. I am deeply committed to ensure the workers at the heart of the sector and the physical infrastructure of retail remain a key feature in our communities. We have more work to do, but I am confident that, by being at the table, listening and acting together, we can develop a retail sector in Wales that is vibrant, a good place to work and continues to contribute to the Welsh economy now and in the future. Diolch.

Thank you, Minister, for your statement. As you have quite rightly said, the retail sector in Wales is vital to providing so many jobs across the country, and of course providing vital skills that are transferable to other industries. Although you haven't mentioned it in your statement, I believe that, in order to improve the retail sector and help improve footfall to high-street businesses, there needs to be a greater scrutiny of what is missing on the high street and what is needed to support shoppers.

One of the issues that I am deeply concerned about, but seems to be repeatedly not included in future plans or even mentioned, is the need for more public toilets. Many shops across Wales are small independent businesses who rely on passing trade and tourism for a majority of their customer base, and a major limiting factor for people accessing the high street and purchasing from many of these shops is the availability of toilet facilities. This is particularly true for older people, those with disabilities, and those with young families. Though there are toilets in some shops, it's not all of them, and those shops that do have them are usually the big national chains. Smaller shopping areas almost always never have public toilets.

Indeed, Minister, there are only seven listed public toilets in the constituency of Cardiff North, four of which are in large supermarkets, one is in a cemetery, and two are in libraries. One only has to walk along St Mary Street late on a Saturday night to see the impact of this. Surely, it is plain to see how investing in public conveniences is essential to helping the high street and many of these small businesses. Therefore, Minister, what assessment has the Government made of the impact of so few public toilets on the retail sector, and what measures are you taking to encourage councils across Wales to improve the provision of public toilets?

Sadly, Minister, Wales has the second highest number of vacant shops in the UK, according to new figures from the Welsh Retail Consortium, with just over one in six shops lying empty. The problem with vacant shops is that they create a feeling of a shopping area being run down, and it has a knock-on effect of fewer people coming to that area, which in turn leads to fewer and fewer shops being opened.

With this in mind, one of the single biggest contributors to reducing footfall for shops is the availability of car parking. Councils and private car parking businesses are squeezing every penny from their parking charges and they are, in many cases, extortionate. They're also becoming few and far between, with many roadside spaces being taken out to make way for cycle paths. In my own council of Rhondda Cynon Taf, the council car parks in town centres are cash only, which causes added issues, as most people now predominantly spend on card and very rarely rely on cash. All of this is making it easier and easier for online businesses to take away trade from the high street. So, with this in mind, Minister, what are your proposals to ensure that there are affordable and accessible car parking facilities available for people to utilise on our high streets?

Finally, I would like to mention the role of architecture in helping businesses to attract an increased footfall. It has been known for some time that architecture plays a key part in encouraging people to visit an area, promoting better social interaction and making people feel happier. Council planning has a big part to play in this, because allowing developments that are not aesthetically pleasing or in keeping with existing designs has actually been proven to put people off visiting. Thus, I would be very interested to know your thoughts on how the retail sector can work with planning departments to encourage better urban design and architecture of buildings that encourages rather than deters people. Thank you.

Thank you very much. Some excellent questions there, which I think many of us probably recognise in our own town centres as they're going through a huge amount of change. So, I think what I'd probably point to in response to many of the issues that you raised with me then is the Transforming Towns programme that we have. That was initiated in 2020 and that is what we're aiming to use to revitalise and sustainably develop the town centres across Wales, and it's underpinned by the placemaking principles that I referred to just last week when we were doing questions to the economy Cab Secretary, and it fulfills the key programme for government commitment, which is £100 million allocated over three years between 2022 and 2025 for various eligible activities. So, that's partly the development fund, that's the placemaking grant, that's the strategic funding as well. 

In relation to what you were saying about public toilets, Joel James, this is something that I'm extremely worried about myself. What's been really sad is that, usually, it's town councils who've come up with the money—because there's such a need, isn't there—within their own budgets to find a place to have a public toilet, which are not cheap to run. And then, when there's a change then to the town, that kind of gets lost, and that's why I think it's absolutely crucial to have really key voices, our voices and Members of the Senedd voices as well, and councillors' voices there, always ensuring that all of the funds and the grants that I've just mentioned, that public toilets are always at the heart of this. We need more of them, I absolutely agree with you, and I will take that on board going forward. 

When it comes to the car parks, I know there are a number of councils who have set aside money in their budgets so that they can have some free hours, at least, maybe three free hours or a certain time of the day, to try and help the town centres and the retail sector. Unfortunately, I know that due to the pressures on budgets at the moment, many have had to withdraw that, but that is something that I know that they do listen to the retailers about and try to recognise that having that place to just be able to drop in and do a few things and buy a couple of things makes a huge difference.

In terms of going forward, though, I'm very hopeful for the upcoming bus Bill. I would ultimately like to see, and many people tell me that they would like to see, more bus links going towards the town centres, and hopefully then going on to our train stations and having that link-up as well, so that you can get out and about and go even further and visit other town centres and retail across Wales. 

And I think a lot of what you were talking about as well comes back to the regeneration that we have going on across a lot of our town centres and leisure facilities across Wales. I think that the retail sector is really crucial to this. Every discussion that I've had with them, they're really alive to this. It is about making sure that they're not overshadowed by the new and shiny that comes in, or even the new units that are put in. We have to make sure that everybody has a voice. But thank you ever so much for your contribution, especially on the free public toilets. I will absolutely incorporate that into my future discussions with the sector. Diolch.

I don't believe I've had the opportunity to formally welcome you into your new post, Deputy Minister, so I'll take that opportunity now. I want to start by just saying, actually, I think the focus on people and skills is a really important one, and I think potentially the right one to start with, because I think what we often forget about with the retail sector—and I also include hospitality in this as well—is that we have a sector of the economy where there's some incredibly skilful people, often unrecognised as well. And I think that speaks a lot to the cultural change that we need to see when we deal with retail workers and hospitality workers.

A number of people in this Chamber used to work in hospitality and retail, and we've all experienced it. I was just thinking now about some of the stuff that used to be said to me when orders weren't done right on the bar: 'You're useless', 'You're a waste of space', 'When are you going to get a real job?' I suppose that has been good grounding for this job, Llywydd, because I seem to be still getting some of those things now, but that's no way to treat anybody in any job, especially when people are there to help. So, I'd be really interested to understand where the Government is going now in terms of trying to change that culture in retail and hospitality, because it's a stark difference to how people in hospitality, for example, are treated on the continent. It's seen as a proper job and it's seen as somewhere where people are able to thrive and get on in life, and to go up and work their way up through some of the businesses that are present there.

I think, actually, when it comes to the retail sector, it's one of those sectors where there's a need for cross-portfolio work and I think cross-sector link-up as well. So, what do I mean by this? Well, for example, if I come back to hospitality, when hospitality is doing well, retail generally is also doing quite well; it's highly likely that that would be the case. And when it comes to cross-portfolio, there's a number of policies that need to be put in place to create that environment for both of those sectors to succeed.

Now, we know it's a tough time for the sector with the cost-of-living crisis. It's been called a perfect storm, and that can be seen, I think, and reflected on the high streets, with the number of empty shops that we're seeing. So, what is the Government's strategy to enable retail to take up some of those spaces, because the retail action plan seems to have had little effect in that regard? I point to business rates, and you mentioned it in your statement. The loss of the 75 per cent reduction has hit high-street businesses quite hard, so I'd hope that there's been some work to look at whether there's potential for that decision to be reversed. But if not, then what—? It could be done around varying the multiplier, to take some of that pressure off the retail sector and the hospitality sector. I know that would be very much appreciated by the sector.

The Deputy Minister will be aware of the situation in Bridgend town. I think there are actually two positives we can take from the approach of the council, to be fair. So, Bridgend County Borough Council seem to actually get that link that I mentioned between hospitality and retail. They've focused on getting more food businesses into the town, to bring people back to the high street, thereby increasing footfall. And high-quality places have been brought into the town with high-quality experiences. I mean, I challenge anybody in this Chamber to go to Marble Steakhouse and tell me that it can't compete with places in Cardiff, and you might be able to tell by my waistline that I'm a regular there.

But they've also, so I've been told, made available grants to convert commercial space into residential, like above shops. Now, if that's true, then that's great. We tackle two issues there: we tackle housing and then we tackle that footfall issue on high streets. You end up getting, actually, that in-built footfall, who will be looking for those services. They'll be looking for retail opportunities and they'll be looking for some of those experiences that hospitality provides. So, I'm really trying to get an understanding here about how your strategy actually looks at these joined-up approaches that essentially go on to benefit retail. And how do we actually make it easier, as well, for councils to implement some of the stuff that BCBC are doing, that places like Caernarfon have done?

I think in this particular part of your portfolio, you'll have a lot of support from across the Chamber. I mean, we all live in our communities, we want to see them thrive, we want to see the high street thrive, we want to be able to go into our towns and have a good time. So, in that sense, I think there's a lot of support, but I'd be really interested just to understand now where we go from here.

Thank you very much for all of those questions. You started by saying that the people first was a good place to begin, and that came up through the forum. That came from everybody working together, and that's what they wanted to focus on. When you talk about the labour force, this is something that came up at the retail forum yesterday. It was probably the first thing that we all touched on. There is some data that seems to be coming out from ONS at the moment that's saying that 18 to 24-year-olds at the moment seem less likely to be in the labour market in general. Obviously I say that very tentatively; there hasn't been much digging in to that. But because of that, as you said, how many of us worked in those sectors when we were younger? That's when people tend to come into it, find a love for it, a passion for it, because, as you said, you're talking and dealing with people face to face, and, you know, there are so many skills that you have, personable skills that you have in particular. But they seem to be missing a little bit from the workforce at the moment. I think that that's probably having an impact on it, so that's something that we're going to explore a little bit more, and so is the Cabinet Secretary for Economy.

I think also there's a piece of work there to do with Careers Wales. I know we say this for a number of different sectors, but I think that that's really crucial. But one of the things that I will reiterate on that is that, if you want it to be a sector that people want to train and work in, and work in for a long time, the real living wage, the skills and employability, other things around mental health and well-being; it needs to be a place that is embedded in fair work and that people want to go and work in and work in for a long time.

In terms of the empty shops, I mean, we're starting to see now—. The second part of this now is going to be moving on to the place and the resilience. I'm seeing some excellent examples of places being used as incubators, as places where people can go in and work communally, being used for pop-ups. I think what it needs, really, is that—. Local authorities, as you said, are doing some wonderful things; it's just about working with them, so that they have that confidence. Because, at the moment, when budgets are really tight and the funding pots are kind of there, but you kind of have to figure out how to fit into them and get the most out of them, I think that they just need a little bit of confidence and that working together, to see where things can work.

You mentioned Bridgend and the night-time economy, you know, you can't get a table in some of these towns on a Friday and Saturday night, and that's wonderful. But I think it also highlights that we don't want each town centre to become an identikit of each other; we want each one to have its own personality, so special things and uniqueness that people go there for, so that's what I would like to see each town centre have; I think we all would like that. I recently went to see Siop Inc in Aberystwyth, and that's an incredible store run by a family, and people deliberately go out of their way to go there, just to see her and her family because it's so wonderful. So, I think the sharing of best practice, that's going to become now part of the next strategy.

And just to say on the rates, this is of course coming through; these are questions that I've been asked across the Chamber. Tough choices are being made right now because of budgetary and inflationary pressures, but I will say that only one in five properties are liable for their full bill this year, and we have committed £384 million for non-domestic rates support next year as well. I hope for better days, and I hope that that will be able to change in the future because it is something that's coming through, so I take that on board as well. Diolch.

I represent many people who don't have a car and they rely on public transport to get them to their local shops, so they're particularly vulnerable to not being able to get hold of the things that they need just for their weekly shops. I think this is really key to people's well-being, because of course people can buy things online, particularly predictable things like heavy goods, tinned goods, but it cuts out all the interaction—the incidental interaction that takes place when you meet your neighbours in the streets—and I just think this is such an important issue. If fresh food isn't available locally, home delivery is some sort of an option, but it doesn't enable you to choose the things that are best value or the things that are on sale if it's a clothing item. So, how does placemaking fit into the Welsh Government priorities here to strengthen the emotional as well as the economic resilience of communities, celebrating local skills and local businesses to ensure that the profits stay in that community, as opposed to being some huge multinational and all the profits going elsewhere?

Thank you very much. I know you're very passionate about this and especially the access to fresh food and also just to the variety and the equality aspect of this, and fairness, that people should be able to have access to everything that everybody else has and not have to pay over what they should be paying, just because they can't get out and about and get further and get those deals, ultimately.

Your question, though, really reminds me of the visit that I did to Blaenau Ffestiniog. I thought that was incredible, how the community had actually come together, and when their tourism information centre was going to go and the building was going to be left empty, a couple of the businesses around there, some of them retail businesses, got together and they have a community share now in the building and they have a community cafe. It's absolutely fantastic.

Also, recently, the hardware store was going to close because the two people who had run it all their lives were going to retire. The community got together and they were like, 'We cannot lose this hardware store', and they got together to find somebody who would be able to run it in the interim. They're now buying up the empty properties and looking for things that they feel the community need, like, for example, they're going to create a space for youth homelessness shortly.

So, what I would say is—and I can share this with you—I've seen some fantastic working where the community comes together like this and it's like, 'What do we actually need as a community, and can we actually get together and do it on a co-operative model, where everybody kind of benefits from it?' So, if you'd be happy, I'd be really pleased to share that best practice with you. I think that this is a model that could really work, especially in parts of your constituency.

Thank you, Minister. That brings today's proceedings to a close.