National Assembly for Wales

Welcome to this virtual meeting of the Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee. Just as a point to note at the start of this, Alun Davies had kindly agreed to act as temporary Chair, and that was on the basis of the UK-EU Parliamentary Partnership Assembly meeting in Brussels today. That has been cancelled, of course, so, with my thanks to Alun, but I'm back in the Chair. But, Alun, thank you very much for agreeing to take it on, there, if I had been over there.

So, just as a reminder, everybody, this is being broadcast live on Senedd.tv and the Record of Proceedings will be published as usual. And apart from the usual adaptations for conducting these proceedings in a virtual format, all the other Standing Order requirements are in place. We've had no apologies—a full complement of committee members today. If we can just make sure—and I'm just doing it on my own—that all our mobile devices are switched to silent. Oh, I'm glad I checked. We're operating through the mediums of Welsh and English today and we have interpretation available, and your 'mute' and 'unmute' will be organised by the sound operator in the background there.

So, we'll go straight on, then, to our first substantive item, item 2, which is instruments that raise no reporting issues under Standing Order 21.2 or 21.3. The first of these is item 2.1 and it's a made negative resolution instrument: SL(6)464, the Building (Restricted Activities and Functions) (Wales) Regulations 2024. These regulations are part of a new suite of new legislation that has the objective of improving standards and safety across the building industry. They seek to ensure that building control authorities and registered building control approvers take advice from registered professionals before undertaking certain functions. We have no reporting points on this, so, colleagues, are you happy to note that? Thank you very much.

We'll proceed, then, to item 2.2, SL(6)467, the National Health Service (Dental Charges) (Wales) (Amendment) Regulations 2024. These amend the 2006 regulations, which provide for the making and recovery of charges for dental treatment and the supply of dental services. They amend those 2006 regulations by increasing the applicable charges payable for bands 1, 2 and 3 and urgent courses of treatment. Again, we've got no reporting points, so, colleagues, are we happy to agree that? We are. Great.

We'll go on, then, to item 2.3, which is the last one in this section: SL(6)469, the Care and Support (Charging) (Wales) (Amendment) Regulations 2024. Where a person is in residential care, and in receipt of financial support from their local authority towards the cost of their care, they are required to contribute towards this cost from their weekly income. A person must be able to retain an amount of their income to spend as they wish, and this is known as the minimum income amount. These regulations increase the minimum income amount from 8 April 2024 from its current level of £39.50 per week to £43.90 a week. Again, there are no reporting points on any of the items in this section. So, are we happy to agree that, colleagues? We are. Great.

In which case, we'll go onto item 3, instruments that do raise issues to be reported to the Senedd under Standing Order 21.2 or 21.3. There's only one item that we need to consider today, and it's item 3.1, a made negative resolution instrument: SL(6)465, the Building (Approved Inspectors etc.) (Amendment) (Wales) Regulations 2024. These amend the 2010 regulations to implement Part 3 of the Building Safety Act 2022. Part 3 of the 2022 Act amends the Building Act 1984 and defines the scope and provisions for the regime during the design and construction phase for higher risk buildings. It also provides for the registration of building inspectors and building control approvers to better regulate and improve competence levels in the building control sector. Now, on this item, our lawyers have identified two merits reporting points, but we don't need a Welsh Government response to this. Kate, I wonder if you could tell us what those reporting points are.

Thank you, yes. Both merits points are noting matters relating to the accessibility of the regulations, specifically ways in which the drafting could have been improved to assist the reader.

That's great, Kate. Thank you very much. Colleagues, are you content with those reporting points? We are.

So, we'll go on to item 4, then, which is instruments that raise issues to be reported to the Senedd under Standing Order 21.2 or 21.3 that we've previously considered. We have a few items here to look at. The first of these is item 4.1, SL(6)456, the Packaging Waste (Data Collection and Reporting) (Wales) (Amendment) Regulations 2024. As per normal, as we'd expect, we have a report and a Welsh Government response in our pack. We considered this at our meeting on 4 March, and we laid our report the same day. So, I invite colleagues to note the Welsh Government response that we'd received. Are there any comments on this, Kate?

Yes, just to note there were 12 technical reporting points on these regulations, and Welsh Government's response states that eight of these are going to be addressed through the correction prior to making process. So, Members may just wish to note that this is, potentially, a fairly significant number of corrections to be made in that way, and one of the corrections is possibly slightly more substantive than would be expected for this process.

Thank you, Kate. We might return later in business to the issue of how corrections are done and so on, but, for the moment, colleagues, are you happy to note those reporting points there? Yes. Okay, great.

We'll go on to item 4.2, then, in the same section, SL(6)462, the Regulated Services (Service Providers and Responsible Individuals) (Wales) (Amendment) Regulations 2024. Again, we have a report and Welsh Government response in our packs. We considered this at our meeting on 11 March. We laid our report the same day, so, again, it's to invite Members to note the Welsh Government response to the report. Again, Kate, anything in particular you want to flag with us on this?

Just to note that the response to the technical point is very helpful. It engages fully with the reporting point and provides a very clear explanation, so that's good.

That's great. Thank you very much, Kate. I think on that basis we're happy to agree that.

And then we'll go to the final one in this section, item 4.3, SL(6)463, the Plant Health etc. (Miscellaneous Fees) (Amendment) (Wales) Regulations 2024. Again, we have a report and Welsh Government response in our packs. We considered this instrument at our meeting on 11 March and laid our report the same day. So, again, Kate, anything in particular on this one?

On this one, the Welsh Government response confirms that three of the technical reporting points will be addressed through correction prior to making, and so Members might just wish to note that the correction in response to the first reporting point requires inserting the words 'South Africa' into one of the entries in the Welsh language text in the new Schedule 1. Again, this might be considered slightly more substantive a correction than we'd expect to see through this process.

Noted. Okay, are we happy to agree that, colleagues? We are. Good. Thank you, Kate. 

If there aren't any other comments, then we'll go on to item 5. There's only one item in it. These are instruments that raise issues to be reported to the Senedd under Standing Order 21.7 that we had previously considered. One item here, it's item 5.1, SL(6)460, the Building Safety Act 2022 (Commencement No. 4, Transitional and Saving Provisions) (Wales) Regulations 2024. We have, of course, a report and a Welsh Government response. We considered this instrument at our 11 March meeting, and we laid our report the same day. Kate, what is there to note on this?

So, no particular further comments on this one. The Welsh Government response provides an explanation and sets out why it considers that the issue of the missing power in the preamble doesn’t cause a problem in this case, so no further comments from us.

That’s great. Colleagues, any comments on this? No, we’re happy with that, then. Thank you very much.

We’ll go on, then, straight to item 6, notifications and correspondence under the inter-institutional relations agreement. There are a few items here. Item 6.1 first of all, correspondence from the Welsh Government in relation to meetings of inter-ministerial groups and, under your paper 11, there are several papers to note there, including from the Minister for Finance and Local Government, informing us of an extraordinary virtual meeting of the Finance: Interministerial Standing Committee, which was taking place on 14 March, last week, and also from the Minister for Economy, informing us of his attendance at the inter-ministerial group on UK-EU relations on 6 March 2024, which was held in preparation for the next meetings of the UK-EU partnership council, and of the Withdrawal Agreement Joint Committee.

So, if you’re happy to note those, we will go on to item 6.2, to note the written statement and correspondence from the Minister for Finance and Local Government, informing the Senedd that she has given consent for the UK Government to make the Procurement Act 2023 (Commencement No. 2) Regulations 2024. The Minister confirms that the purpose of these regulations is to commence a number of provisions in the 2023 Act, including provisions that will allow the Welsh Ministers to lay substantive regulations before the Senedd. The Minister states that she has given her consent, as only the Minister of the Crown has commencement powers within the Act. We’re also told by the Minister that there will be a number of further commencement regulations that will also require the consent of the Welsh Ministers. Colleagues, are you happy to note all of these things? Of course, we can return to them subsequently.

But if you’re happy to note, if there are no comments now, we'll go on to item 6.3. I draw your attention to note the written statement by the Minister for Rural Affairs and North Wales, and Trefnydd, informing the Senedd that she has given consent for the Secretary of State to make the Biocidal Products (Health and Safety) (Amendment and Transitional Provisions etc.) Regulations 2024 in relation to Wales. These introduce technical updates to the Great Britain Biocidal Products Regulation (EU) No 528/2012, concerning making available on the market and the use of biocidal products, and the regulations will come into force on 6 April 2024. And just to note that the Minister states that she has given her consent to ensure scientific and technological advances that extend our ability to test for potentially harmful effects of biocides are incorporated into the regulations, and to enable a reduction in the necessity for animal testing, as well as to preserve the interconnected nature of the GB biocidal regime. So, we note that.

That takes us on, then, to the last item in this section, item 6.4, where we have a written statement and letter from the Minister for Rural Affairs and North Wales, and Trefnydd, informing the Senedd that she has now given consent for the Minister for Biosecurity, Animal Health and Welfare to make the Environment and Rural Affairs (Revocation and Consequential Provision) Regulations 2024. Members will recall that the Minister wrote to the committee on 29 February, informing us of her intent to consent. The regulations revoke 73 pieces of assimilated law deemed no longer operable or suitable for purpose in the UK. Colleagues, are we happy to note those items?

And then we will go on to the papers to note. Again, we have several items in this section, section 7. The first of which, under 7.1, is to note the UK-EU Parliamentary Partnership Assembly fourth meeting summary report. Just to say, colleagues, the summary report was prepared for Sam Kurtz and myself, as the representatives at the fourth meeting of the UK-EU Parliamentary Partnership Assembly, and we thank our clerking team as well, behind the scenes, for helping us in putting this note together. Just to note as well that the report of the meeting, which took place in London on 4 and 5 December last year, provides a summary of issues of importance to Wales discussed at the meeting and reflects on the continued development and evolution of the body and the Senedd's role and work in it. Now, again, we can return to this, unless anybody has any comments at this point or Sam wants to reflect any comments as well. Sam, over to you.

Thank you very much, Chair. Just very briefly, from my perspective, it's an incredibly helpful document to have post these meetings. I think that the clerking team, Nia Moss especially—. These are really valuable tools not only for us, but for engagement with other devolved representatives on the UK-EU PPA. I know this is of value, and I think it's well worth us continuing to follow this form that has been set, be that through me, you or through whomever else sits on the UK-EU PPA. I think this is of incredible value.

Many thanks, Sam, and I think we'd all echo that as a committee—our thanks to the clerking team. On a lot of the work, when we look good, it's because our clerking teams pull together our discussions into a format that is coherent. And it is of use to other parliaments as well to see it. So, thank you very much for that, Sam, and also your reflection that this is providing quite a useful body at the moment. So, we look forward to it going from strength to strength. 

If we go, then, to item No. 7.2, again to note, we have correspondence from the Counsel General and Minister for the Constitution updating the committee on the UK Government's review of the common frameworks programme. The Counsel General is following up on discussions held in our evidence session with him on 26 February. He also provides some clarity on the staffing of the inter-governmental relations secretariat, confirming that

'the Head of the Secretariat is in post on loan from the Welsh Government for a two-year period',

alongside staff from other Governments, and that the

'Welsh Government is in the process of recruiting an additional member of staff that will also be assigned to the IGR Secretariat.'

That's quite interesting to note, the way that's coming together. The Counsel General also tells us that the function and role of the IGR secretariat is outlined on a dedicated webpage, which is hosted on the UK Government website.

So, we'll go on to item No. 7.3, then, the last item in this section, and it's to note two items of correspondence from the Llywydd in relation to the Senedd Cymru (Electoral Candidate Lists) Bill. Just to note, she has written to both us and the Reform Bill Committee, and places on record her view as Llywydd that the provisions of the Bill would not be within the legislative competence of the Senedd. The Llywydd has also written in relation to the expedited scrutiny timetable, which leaves a shorter than usual period for committee scrutiny. This may well be something we want to return to in private session, but if you're happy to note that for the moment so that we can put that on record.

Colleagues, we've gone through a fair bit of business at a fair bit of speed there. If you're happy to move into private session, can I just move a motion, under Standing Order 17.42, to resolve to exclude the public? Are we content? Good. Okay, we'll go into private session, please.