Y Cyfarfod Llawn

Plenary

25/10/2023

Yn y fersiwn ddwyieithog, mae’r golofn chwith yn cynnwys yr iaith a lefarwyd yn y cyfarfod. Mae’r golofn dde yn cynnwys cyfieithiad o’r areithiau hynny.

In the bilingual version, the left-hand column includes the language used during the meeting. The right-hand column includes a translation of those speeches.

Cyfarfu'r Senedd yn y Siambr a thrwy gynhadledd fideo am 13:30 gyda'r Llywydd (Elin Jones) yn y Gadair. 

The Senedd met in the Chamber and by video-conference at 13:30 with the Llywydd (Elin Jones) in the Chair.

1. Cwestiynau i’r Gweinidog Newid Hinsawdd
1. Questions to the Minister for Climate Change

Prynhawn da a chroeso, bawb, i'r Cyfarfod Llawn y prynhawn yma. Yr eitem gyntaf fydd y cwestiynau i’r Gweinidog Newid Hinsawdd. Mae'r cwestiwn cyntaf i'w ateb gan y Dirprwy Weinidog ac i'w ofyn gan Samuel Kurtz.

Good afternoon and welcome to this afternoon's Plenary session. The first item will be questions to the Minister for Climate Change. The first question is to be answered by the Deputy Minister and to be asked by Samuel Kurtz.

Trafnidiaeth Gyhoeddus
Public Transport

1. Sut mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn cefnogi trafnidiaeth gyhoeddus yng Ngorllewin Caerfyrddin a De Sir Benfro? OQ60156

1. How is the Welsh Government supporting public transport in Carmarthen West and South Pembrokeshire? OQ60156

Thank you. Our national transport delivery plan sets out a range of projects and programmes that will help deliver our vision of better, more reliable and attractive public transport services across south-west Wales.

Diolch. Mae ein cynllun cyflawni cenedlaethol ar gyfer trafnidiaeth yn nodi amrywiaeth o brosiectau a rhaglenni a fydd yn helpu i gyflawni ein gweledigaeth o wasanaethau trafnidiaeth gyhoeddus gwell, mwy dibynadwy a deniadol ar draws de-orllewin Cymru.

Thank you, Deputy Minister, but what on earth is happening with St Clears railway station? I recently visited the site with local MP, Simon Hart, officials from Carmarthenshire County Council and two local county councillors, because we seem to be no further forward with the reopening of this station. In written replies to me, the decision to reopen the railway station now seems conditional on the location of the new hospital in west Wales, when this was never part of the business case in the first instance, which saw the UK Government, the Welsh Government, Transport for Wales, Network Rail and the local community agree together that St Clears needed its railway station. There is talk that, while inflation has played its part, there was a staggering underestimation of the costs by the Welsh Government. So, to reiterate my opening question, Deputy Minister, what on earth is going on with St Clears railway station?

Diolch, Ddirprwy Weinidog, ond beth ar y ddaear sy’n digwydd gyda gorsaf drenau Sanclêr? Ymwelais â’r safle yn ddiweddar gyda’r Aelod Seneddol lleol, Simon Hart, swyddogion o Gyngor Sir Caerfyrddin a dau gynghorydd sir lleol, gan yr ymddengys nad ydym wedi gwneud unrhyw gynnydd gydag ailagor yr orsaf hon. Mewn atebion ysgrifenedig i mi, mae’r penderfyniad i ailagor yr orsaf drenau bellach yn amodol, yn ôl pob golwg, ar leoliad yr ysbyty newydd yng ngorllewin Cymru, er nad oedd hyn erioed yn rhan o’r achos busnes yn y lle cyntaf pan gytunodd Llywodraeth y DU, Llywodraeth Cymru, Trafnidiaeth Cymru, Network Rail a’r gymuned leol gyda’i gilydd fod angen ei gorsaf drenau ar Sanclêr. Er bod chwyddiant wedi chwarae ei ran, mae sôn bod Llywodraeth Cymru wedi tanamcangyfrif y costau'n sylweddol. Felly, i ailadrodd fy nghwestiwn agoriadol, Ddirprwy Weinidog, beth ar y ddaear sy’n digwydd gyda gorsaf drenau Sanclêr?

Well, the challenge is that the business case assumed that it would cost £6 million to reopen St Clears station. That cost has now doubled, but the contribution from the DfT has not. Their contribution remains at £4.5 million. Now, this is rail infrastructure; rail infrastructure is not devolved. Now, there’s an assumption under this scheme that the Welsh Government will match fund, and we were willing to match fund at the lower cost. We simply do not have the funds to match fund at the higher cost. So, that is the truth of the situation and we recognise the need for a station at St Clears and fully support it and want it to happen. I think the reality and the practicalities we face and the choices we have here are that we know there is a plan for a large hospital nearby, public transport connectivity to that is critical and I think we need to be looking at those two developments in tandem. But if the UK Government wants to take its responsibilities for rail infrastructure seriously and provide further funding, we’d be very grateful to work with them.

Wel, yr her yw bod yr achos busnes wedi rhagdybio y byddai’n costio £6 miliwn i ailagor gorsaf Sanclêr. Mae’r gost honno bellach wedi dyblu, ond nid yw’r cyfraniad gan yr Adran Drafnidiaeth wedi dyblu. Mae eu cyfraniad yn parhau i fod yn £4.5 miliwn. Nawr, seilwaith rheilffyrdd yw hyn; nid yw seilwaith rheilffyrdd wedi’i ddatganoli. Nawr, mae rhagdybiaeth o dan y cynllun hwn y bydd Llywodraeth Cymru yn darparu arian cyfatebol, ac roeddem yn fodlon darparu arian cyfatebol ar gyfer y gost is. Yn syml iawn, nid oes gennym yr arian i ddarparu arian cyfatebol ar gyfer y gost uwch. Felly, dyna wirionedd y sefyllfa, ac rydym yn cydnabod yr angen am orsaf yn Sanclêr ac yn llwyr gefnogi'r syniad, ac am i hynny ddigwydd. Credaf mai’r realiti a’r pethau ymarferol sy’n ein hwynebu a’r dewisiadau sydd gennym yma yw ein bod yn gwybod bod cynllun ar y gweill ar gyfer ysbyty mawr gerllaw, mae cysylltedd trafnidiaeth gyhoeddus â'r ysbyty hwnnw’n hollbwysig, a chredaf fod angen inni edrych ar y ddau ddatblygiad gyda'i gilydd. Ond os yw Llywodraeth y DU am gymryd ei chyfrifoldebau dros seilwaith rheilffyrdd o ddifrif a darparu cyllid pellach, byddem yn falch iawn o weithio gyda nhw.

Dirprwy Weinidog, wythnos diwethaf, fe fynychais i gyfarfod gyda'r Aelod dros Geredigion yn Llandysul i drafod dyfodol Fflecsi Bwcabus sydd yn darparu gwasanaeth yn rhannau o Geredigion, sir Benfro a sir Gaerfyrddin. Roedd y lle'n orlawn—yn agos i 100 o bobl yn bresennol—a beth oedd yn amlwg i ni ar y noson honno oedd y dystiolaeth real iawn am yr effaith y mae cael gwared ar y gwasanaeth yma yn mynd i'w chael ar fywydau pobl go iawn. Nid e-byst oedd y rhain, ond tystiolaeth fyw o sut mae pobl sy'n dioddef o epilepsi yn methu â mynd i glinigau; pobl sydd yn dibynnu ar ffisiotherapi wythnosol yn methu â mynd i glinigau ac i ysbytai, methu â mynd i siopa'n wythnosol; rhai yn sôn am orfod dod â swydd i ben oherwydd eu bod nhw'n methu â chyrraedd y swydd arbennig yna. Felly, o fewn pedair wythnos, neu gyda phedair wythnos o rybudd yn unig, fe ddaethoch chi â'r gwasanaeth hwnnw i ben. Sôn am cliff edge i bobl sydd yn gorfod cynllunio eu dyfodol personol nhw eu hunain. Nawr, pan godais i'r mater yma ryw fis yn ôl, fe ddywedoch chi y byddech chi'n gweithio gyda thrafnidiaeth gymunedol ac awdurdodau lleol i geisio achub elfennau o Fflecsi Bwcabus. Gaf i ofyn beth yw'r diweddariad ar hynny, a gaf i ofyn i chi ymateb i'r cais dwi a'r Aelod dros Geredigion wedi gofyn i chi amdano, sef cyfarfod brys rhyngom ni i gynllunio dyfodol Bwcabus yn yr ardaloedd hyn? Gaf i ofyn i chi am gyfarfod, os gwelwch yn dda?

Deputy Minister, last week, I attended a meeting with the Member for Ceredigion in Llandysul to discuss the future of Fflecsi Bwcabus, which provides a service in parts of Ceredigion, Pembrokeshire and Carmarthenshire. The room was full to overflowing, with nearly 100 people in attendance, and what became clear to us on that evening was the very real evidence that scrapping this service is going to have a harmful effect on the lives of real people. These weren't e-mails, but lived evidence of how people suffering from epilepsy can't attend clinics; people who are reliant on physiotherapy on a weekly basis unable to attend their clinics and hospitals, not being able to do the weekly shop; some talking about having to cease employment because they wouldn't be able get to that place of employment. So, within four weeks, or with just four weeks' notice, you decided to end that service. Talk about a cliff edge for people who have to plan their personal futures. Now, when I raised this issue around a month ago, you said that you would work with community transport and local authorities to try and save elements of the Fflecsi Bwcabus. Can I ask for an update on that and can I ask you to respond to the request that I and the Member for Ceredigion have made of you, namely an urgent meeting between us to plan the future of Bwcabus in these areas? Could I ask you for a meeting, please?

Diolch. Of course I'd be very happy to meet you and the other Member to discuss this. There is no easy answer to it, though, unfortunately. I think it's unfair to say that we gave short notice to end the service. The funding for the programme was destined to end when the European funding came to an end. This was a European-funded project. Now, Wales voted for Brexit; there are consequences to that. We were told by the UK Government we would have replacement funding. That hasn't happened. In fact, we are £1 billion down on where we were before we left the EU and its programmes, and that has consequences for our ability to fund public services.

Now, I value the Bwcabus service, and it's been the inspiration for the Fflecsi service that we're now trialling in other parts of Wales, so I need no convincing of the value of the model. I don't think passenger numbers were very strong. It's interesting that 100 people turned up at a meeting; it would be interesting to know how many of those were regular users of it. People often don't want to lose a service, but the very same people often don't support the service. So I think a thing we all need to reflect on as we look at the future of buses is how can we encourage more people to use those services. We are funding very significantly the TrawsCymru service through Ceredigion, which is an excellent service, with modern electric buses, with low fares, and it is very popular. So, we are putting a lot of investment into bus services in rural Wales. Very sadly, because of the funding situation we face in the short term, we were not able to replace the EU funding that has been taken away, and that, I'm afraid, is a fact that there is no easy answer to.

There are, of course, options, and the local authority has a legal duty to provide socially necessary bus services, and they have the option to find funding of their own, if it is as locally valued as the Member says. But they face a similar budgetary situation to what we do. So, it's not that we don't value the service; we simply don't have the money to fund all the things that we do value. But we are going to do our best with TfW and community transport to see what can be done where we have some options, but I'm not going to pretend other than this is a sub-optimal situation, which is deeply regrettable. But I'd be happy to discuss it further with the Member and his colleagues.

Diolch. Wrth gwrs, buaswn yn fwy na pharod i gyfarfod â chi a'r Aelod arall i drafod hyn. Nid oes ateb hawdd i'r mater, serch hynny, yn anffodus. Credaf ei bod yn annheg dweud inni roi rhybudd byr i ddod â’r gwasanaeth i ben. Roedd cyllid y rhaglen bob amser yn mynd i ddod i ben pan ddeuai'r cyllid Ewropeaidd i ben. Roedd hwn yn brosiect a ariannwyd gan Ewrop. Nawr, pleidleisiodd Cymru o blaid Brexit: mae canlyniadau i hynny. Dywedodd Llywodraeth y DU wrthym y byddem yn cael cyllid yn lle'r cyllid Ewropeaidd. Nid yw hynny wedi digwydd. A dweud y gwir, rydym £1 biliwn yn waeth ein byd o gymharu â chyn inni adael yr UE a’i raglenni, ac mae canlyniadau i hynny o ran ein gallu i ariannu gwasanaethau cyhoeddus.

Nawr, rwy'n ystyried bod gwasanaeth Bwcabus yn werthfawr, ac mae wedi ysbrydoli’r gwasanaeth Fflecsi yr ydym yn ei dreialu mewn rhannau eraill o Gymru ar hyn o bryd, felly nid oes angen fy argyhoeddi ynghylch gwerth y model. Ni chredaf fod nifer y teithwyr yn gryf iawn. Mae'n ddiddorol fod 100 o bobl wedi mynychu cyfarfod; byddai'n ddiddorol gwybod faint o'r rheini oedd yn ei ddefnyddio'n rheolaidd. Yn aml, nid yw pobl eisiau colli gwasanaeth, ond yn aml, ni fydd y bobl hynny'n cefnogi'r gwasanaeth. Felly, credaf mai un peth y mae angen i bob un ohonom ei ystyried wrth inni edrych ar ddyfodol bysiau yw sut y gallwn annog mwy o bobl i ddefnyddio'r gwasanaethau hynny. Rydym yn darparu cryn dipyn o gyllid i wasanaeth TrawsCymru drwy Geredigion, sy’n wasanaeth rhagorol, gyda bysiau trydan modern, a thocynnau am bris isel, ac mae’n boblogaidd iawn. Felly, rydym yn buddsoddi llawer o arian mewn gwasanaethau bysiau yng nghefn gwlad Cymru. Yn anffodus, oherwydd y sefyllfa gyllido rydym yn ei hwynebu yn y tymor byr, nid ydym wedi gallu darparu cyllid yn lle cyllid yr UE, ac mae arnaf ofn fod honno'n ffaith nad oes ateb hawdd iddi.

Mae opsiynau, wrth gwrs, ac mae gan yr awdurdod lleol ddyletswydd gyfreithiol i ddarparu gwasanaethau bysiau sy’n gymdeithasol angenrheidiol, ac mae ganddynt opsiwn i ddod o hyd i gyllid eu hunain, os yw mor werthfawr yn lleol ag y dywed yr Aelod. Ond maent yn wynebu sefyllfa gyllidebol debyg i ninnau. Felly, nid yw'n wir nad ydym yn gweld gwerth y gwasanaeth; yn syml, nid oes gennym arian i ariannu'r holl bethau y gwelwn eu gwerth. Ond rydym yn mynd i wneud ein gorau gyda Trafnidiaeth Cymru a thrafnidiaeth gymunedol i weld beth y gellir ei wneud lle mae gennym rywfaint o opsiynau, ond nid wyf am esgus nad yw hon yn sefyllfa anffodus iawn, sy’n drueni mawr. Ond rwy'n fwy na pharod i’w thrafod ymhellach gyda’r Aelod a’i gyd-Aelodau.

13:35

What steps is the Minister taking to address any issues caused by the blanket 20 mph speed limit?

Pa gamau y mae'r Gweinidog yn eu cymryd i fynd i'r afael ag unrhyw drafferthion sy'n cael eu hachosi gan y terfyn cyflymder cyffredinol o 20 mya?

Well, as the Member knows, it is not a blanket speed limit, and she does a disservice to herself and the code of ethics that we all sign up to in this Chamber to be truthful and accurate—[Interruption.] It is a default speed limit, as she knows. It is the most significant change to road safety—

Wel, fel y gŵyr yr Aelod, nid yw’n derfyn cyflymder cyffredinol, ac mae’n gwneud cam â hi ei hun a'r cod moeseg y mae pob un ohonom yn ymrwymo iddo yn y Siambr hon i fod yn onest ac yn gywir—[Torri ar draws.] Mae’n derfyn cyflymder diofyn, fel y mae hi'n gwybod. Dyma’r newid mwyaf ystyrlon i ddiogelwch ar y ffyrdd—

Can I just clarify for the Record that the original question did call it a 'default blanket 20 mph speed limit', but it wasn't what you read out. So, if you can read out the question that you actually tabled, it would be useful for the Minister.

A gaf fi egluro ar gyfer y Cofnod fod y cwestiwn gwreiddiol yn ei alw'n 'derfyn cyflymder cyffredinol diofyn o 20 mya', ond nid dyna a ddarllenoch chi. Felly, byddai'n hwyluso pethau i'r Gweinidog os gallwch ddarllen y cwestiwn a gyflwynwyd gennych fel y'i hysgrifennwyd.

Terfynau Cyflymder 20 mya
20 mph Speed Limits

2. Pa gamau y mae'r Gweinidog yn eu cymryd i fynd i'r afael ag unrhyw drafferthion sy'n cael eu hachosi gan y terfyn cyflymder cyffredinol diofyn o 20 mya? OQ60167

2. What steps is the Minister taking to address any issues caused by the default blanket 20 mph speed limit? OQ60167

Well, it is a default speed limit, it is not a blanket speed limit, and that's an important distinction, because that is designed to mislead, and it's caused an awful lot of confusion with people that the Conservatives here need to take some responsibility for. It is the most significant change to improve road safety in Wales for decades, and we will continue to work with our partners to monitor implementation.

Wel, mae'n derfyn cyflymder diofyn, nid yw'n derfyn cyflymder cyffredinol, ac mae hwnnw'n wahaniaeth pwysig, gan fod hynny wedi'i gynllunio i gamarwain pobl, ac mae wedi peri cryn ddryswch ymhlith pobl y mae angen i'r Ceidwadwyr yma gymryd rhywfaint o gyfrifoldeb amdano. Dyma’r newid mwyaf ystyrlon i wella diogelwch ar y ffyrdd yng Nghymru ers degawdau, a byddwn yn parhau i weithio gyda’n partneriaid i fonitro ei gweithrediad.

Deputy Minister, we've all seen the widespread disapproval of your new blanket 20 mph speed limit, from bus companies to emergency services, and, of course, the 0.5 million people that have signed the petition, and more. This week, we've even seen a magistrate resign over the issue. Deputy Minister, this policy is clearly deeply unpopular with the people of Wales, and, as elected politicians, we're here to serve the people, not to dictate and impose damaging policies on their lives. Deputy Minister, the issues of this ill-thought-out policy just keep stacking up, and there's no end in sight. Just when will you accept that this many people can't be wrong and commit to reversing this failed and damaging policy?

Ddirprwy Weinidog, mae pob un ohonom wedi gweld y gwrthwynebiad helaeth i'ch terfyn cyflymder cyffredinol newydd o 20 mya, o gwmnïau bysiau i wasanaethau brys, ac wrth gwrs, y 0.5 miliwn a mwy o bobl sydd wedi llofnodi’r ddeiseb. Yr wythnos hon, rydym hyd yn oed wedi gweld ynad yn ymddiswyddo dros y mater. Ddirprwy Weinidog, mae’r polisi hwn yn amlwg yn hynod amhoblogaidd gyda phobl Cymru, ac fel gwleidyddion etholedig, rydym yma i wasanaethu’r bobl, nid i orchymyn a gorfodi polisïau niweidiol ar eu bywydau. Ddirprwy Weinidog, mae'r problemau a achoswyd gan y polisi difeddwl hwn yn dal i bentyrru, ac nid oes diwedd i'w weld. Pryd y byddwch chi'n derbyn na all cymaint â hyn o bobl fod yn anghywir, ac ymrwymo i wrthdroi'r polisi aflwyddiannus a niweidiol hwn?

Well, it is not ill thought out; it has been carefully thought out and worked on for over four and a half years. This has been rolled out in many other places—in London, in Edinburgh, in Spain. Conservative-led Cornwall Council want to roll this out in their area; they certainly don't think it's ill thought out nor that they are dictating or imposing. The party opposite are deliberately using highly charged, prejudicial language, not based on facts, to try and create a social reaction to distract from the fact that they are a party bankrupt of ideas and are morally empty as well. We know what we are doing is working in reducing speeds. Speeds are down, as they are everywhere else it's been brought in. And with speeds coming down, we can expect to see casualties coming down—[Interruption.]—for noise pollution to be reduced, for the benefits that have been shown elsewhere. Now, Andrew R.T. Davies shouts from a sedentary position. The example of Belfast, which he often quotes—. I'm not sure if he's looked at the study. I doubt it very much; he's simply looked at the headline. Because the study does not say what he thinks it says. It in fact supports the approach we are taking, because it calls for an area-wide approach, which is supported by behaviour change and normalisation. So, he should read the report properly and correct—[Interruption.] Well, if he has read it, then he's either misunderstood it, or he's misrepresenting it. 

Wel, nid yw'n ddifeddwl; mae wedi cael ei ystyried a'i lunio'n ofalus ers dros bedair blynedd a hanner. Mae wedi cael ei gyflwyno mewn llawer o leoedd eraill—yn Llundain, yng Nghaeredin, yn Sbaen. Mae Cyngor Cernyw, o dan arweiniad y Ceidwadwyr, yn dymuno cyflwyno hyn yn eu hardal; yn sicr, nid ydynt yn meddwl ei fod yn ddifeddwl na'u bod yn ei orchymyn neu'n ei orfodi. Mae'r blaid gyferbyn yn mynd ati'n fwriadol i ddefnyddio iaith herfeiddiol, ragfarnllyd, nad yw'n seiliedig ar ffeithiau, i geisio creu ymateb cymdeithasol i dynnu sylw oddi ar y ffaith eu bod yn blaid heb syniadau, ac yn amddifad o bob moesoldeb hefyd. Gwyddom fod yr hyn a wnawn yn gweithio i leihau cyflymderau. Mae cyflymderau'n is, yn yr un modd ag ym mhobman arall lle cafodd ei gyflwyno. A chyda chyflymderau is, gallwn ddisgwyl gweld nifer yr anafusion yn gostwng—[Torri ar draws.]—llai o lygredd sŵn, a'r manteision a welwyd mewn mannau eraill. Nawr, mae Andrew R. T. Davies yn gweiddi o'i sedd. Mae enghraifft Belfast, y mae’n aml yn ei dyfynnu—. Nid wyf yn siŵr a yw wedi edrych ar yr astudiaeth. Rwy'n amau hynny'n gryf; nid yw ond wedi edrych ar y pennawd. Oherwydd nid yw'r astudiaeth yn dweud yr hyn y cred ef ei bod yn ei ddweud. Mewn gwirionedd, mae'n cefnogi’r un dull o weithredu â ninnau, gan ei bod yn galw am ddull gweithredu ardal gyfan, a ategir gan newid ymddygiad a normaleiddio. Felly, dylai ddarllen yr adroddiad yn iawn ac yn drylwyr—[Torri ar draws.] Wel, os yw wedi ei ddarllen, mae naill ai wedi ei gamddeall, neu mae’n ei gam-gyfleu.

13:40

From talking to people, 90 per cent of people support 90 per cent of 20 mph roads. But I have had someone tell me, 'I am an experienced driver and I drive to road conditions. I do not need any speed limit.' Another, 'Deaths and serious injury are a price worth paying to travel at 30 mph.' Most ludicrous, that, '30 mph is suitable for roads of less than 30 metres.' There are, unfortunately, anomalies. Can I suggest to the Minister that A roads' and B roads' speed limits are left to the discretion of councils, with no guidance from the Welsh Government?

O siarad â phobl, mae 90 y cant o bobl yn cefnogi 90 y cant o ffyrdd 20 mya. Ond mae rhywun wedi dweud wrthyf, 'Rwy'n yrrwr profiadol ac rwy'n gyrru'n unol ag amodau'r ffordd. Nid oes angen unrhyw derfyn cyflymder arnaf.' Un arall, 'Mae marwolaethau ac anafiadau difrifol yn bris gwerth ei dalu am deithio ar 30 mya.' Y mwyaf hurt yw bod '30 mya yn addas ar gyfer ffyrdd llai na 30 metr.' Yn anffodus, mae yna anghysondebau. A gaf fi awgrymu wrth y Gweinidog fod terfynau cyflymder ffyrdd A a ffyrdd B yn cael eu gadael i ddisgresiwn cynghorau, heb unrhyw ganllawiau gan Lywodraeth Cymru?

Well, I can confirm that A roads and B roads are at the discretion of local councils, and that's made very clear in the guidance. And, in fact, I met with local authority leaders from across Wales yesterday to discuss the experience they've had in implementing it. And what was telling is that a large number of leaders said that they have had very little correspondence in recent weeks on this, that people are adapting to it, they're getting used to it.

We do think there are some examples, where, with the benefit of hindsight and experience, the wrong decisions have been made, and I've encouraged local authorities to think about how they can use their powers of discretion to make exceptions. They will be exceptions not the rule. So, it'll be, I think, a tidying-up exercise, but we had a very positive and constructive meeting with them yesterday.

We're going to do some more work to understand whether the guidance itself does need to change, or whether or not their confidence levels of how they apply the guidance need to be helped, working with other authorities—his own, for example, I think, has got the largest number of exceptions in Wales. So, obviously, there is an exceptions process; it's not a blanket, because if it was, how could Swansea issue so many exceptions? But there is an unevenness of approach across Wales, and we're working very closely with them to try and work that through. But the fact stands: average speeds are down. People are voting with their feet and are respecting the new speed limit. 

Wel, gallaf gadarnhau bod ffyrdd A a ffyrdd B wedi eu gadael i ddisgresiwn cynghorau lleol, ac mae hynny wedi’i nodi'n glir iawn yn y canllawiau. Ac mewn gwirionedd, cyfarfûm ag arweinwyr awdurdodau lleol o bob rhan o Gymru ddoe i drafod y profiad y maent wedi'i gael o roi hyn ar waith. A'r hyn a oedd yn adrodd cyfrolau yw bod nifer fawr o arweinwyr wedi dweud mai ychydig iawn o ohebiaeth a gawsant dros yr wythnosau diwethaf ynglŷn â hyn, fod pobl yn addasu iddo, eu bod yn dod i arfer ag ef.

Credwn fod yna rai enghreifftiau, wrth edrych yn ôl a chael rhywfaint o brofiad, lle gwnaed penderfyniadau anghywir, ac rwyf wedi annog awdurdodau lleol i feddwl sut y gallant ddefnyddio eu pwerau disgresiynol i wneud eithriadau. Eithriadau fydd y rhain, nid y rheol. Felly, credaf y bydd yn golygu rhywfaint o waith tacluso, ond cawsom gyfarfod cadarnhaol ac adeiladol iawn gyda nhw ddoe.

Rydym yn mynd i wneud mwy o waith i ddeall a oes angen i’r canllawiau eu hunain newid, neu a oes angen helpu eu lefelau hyder o ran sut y maent yn rhoi'r canllawiau ar waith, gan weithio gydag awdurdodau eraill—credaf mai ei awdurdod ef, er enghraifft, sydd â'r nifer fwyaf o eithriadau yng Nghymru. Felly, yn amlwg, mae yna broses ar gyfer eithriadau; nid yw’n derfyn cyffredinol, oherwydd pe bai, sut y gallai Abertawe gyhoeddi cymaint o eithriadau? Ond mae'r dull gweithredu ledled Cymru yn anwastad, ac rydym yn gweithio'n agos iawn gyda nhw i geisio gweithio drwy hynny. Ond erys y ffaith bod cyflymderau cyfartalog yn is. Mae pobl yn pleidleisio â'u traed ac yn parchu'r terfyn cyflymder newydd.

Cwestiynau Heb Rybudd gan Lefarwyr y Pleidiau
Questions Without Notice from Party Spokespeople

Cwestiynau nawr gan lefarwyr y pleidiau. Llefarydd y Ceidwadwyr, Natasha Asghar. 

Questions now from the party spokespeople. The Welsh Conservative spokesperson, Natasha Asghar. 

Thank you so much, Presiding Officer. Deputy Minister, according to your colleagues, your Government is in a dire financial position, with important budgets like education, economy and finance being slashed as a result. Although that poverty-stricken image your Government portrays doesn't simply add up for me when you look at the eye-watering amounts of cash you've been splashing on vanity projects. Take the £33 million on 20 mph speed limits, or the £120 million being used to expand this place, or the £4.25 million spent buying farms for friends. And then, only days ago, we hear that the Government has managed to pluck £125 million from its magic money tree to give to Transport for Wales, which we all know is owned by the Welsh Labour Government. So, some might say this is an incredibly surprising move for a Government desperately trying to tighten up the purse strings. So, Deputy Minister, just what exactly is this money going to be spent on? And did Transport for Wales put forward a business case, because, quite frankly, I am worried that TfW is turning into the new Cardiff Airport, which has been swallowing up millions of pounds of taxpayers' cash without yielding any positive results so far?

Diolch yn fawr, Lywydd. Ddirprwy Weinidog, yn ôl eich cyd-Aelodau, mae eich Llywodraeth mewn sefyllfa ariannol enbyd, gyda chyllidebau pwysig fel addysg, yr economi a chyllid yn cael eu torri o ganlyniad. Er hynny, nid yw'r ddelwedd dlawd honno y mae eich Llywodraeth yn ei disgrifio yn gwneud synnwyr i mi pan edrychwch ar y symiau syfrdanol o arian yr ydych wedi bod yn eu gwario ar brosiectau porthi balchder. Cymerwch y £33 miliwn ar derfynau cyflymder 20 mya, neu’r £120 miliwn sy’n cael ei ddefnyddio i ehangu’r lle hwn, neu’r £4.25 miliwn sy’n cael ei wario ar brynu ffermydd i ffrindiau. A ddyddiau’n unig yn ôl, clywn fod y Llywodraeth wedi dod o hyd i £125 miliwn ar ei choeden arian hud i’w roi i Trafnidiaeth Cymru, y gŵyr pob un ohonom ei fod yn eiddo i Lywodraeth Lafur Cymru. Felly, efallai y bydd rhai’n dweud bod hwn yn gam hynod o annisgwyl gan Lywodraeth sy’n ceisio’n galed i dynhau ei gwregys. Felly, Ddirprwy Weinidog, ar beth yn union y mae’r arian hwn yn mynd i gael ei wario? Ac a gyflwynodd Trafnidiaeth Cymru achos busnes, oherwydd, a dweud y gwir, rwy’n poeni bod Trafnidiaeth Cymru yn mynd yn debyg iawn i Faes Awyr Caerdydd, sydd wedi bod yn llyncu miliynau o bunnoedd o arian trethdalwyr heb ddarparu unrhyw ganlyniadau cadarnhaol hyd yn hyn?

Well, it's curious, isn't it, that you regard a project to save lives as a vanity project. I don't regard it as a vanity project to reduce the speed limit and save people's lives. And the cost of introducing that will be paid back three times over in the first year from reduced casualties and burden on the NHS. So, I completely reject the characterisation the Member has of that policy. 

In terms of the additional money we've made available for TfW, that is not a reflection of any poor decisions or mismanagement by TfW or by the Welsh Government. That's simply a reflection of the fact that the budget that was set at the time of franchising assumed a very dramatic increase in passenger numbers. That has not been possible to do because we've had the pandemic, and the pandemic has reduced patronage, and that has created a financial gap that needed to be filled. And if we didn't fill that, much of the rail network would shut down. Now, not content with wanting to shut down our airport, she seems content with wanting to shut down our rail network. And I do find the contradictory position the Member states—. Last week, she was telling people that she wanted extra money spent on a new train station at Caerleon. This week, she tells us the money spent on rail is a waste of money.

Wel, mae'n rhyfedd, onid yw, eich bod yn ystyried prosiect i achub bywydau yn brosiect porthi balchder. Nid wyf yn ei ystyried yn brosiect porthi balchder i leihau'r terfyn cyflymder ac achub bywydau pobl. A bydd cost cyflwyno hynny'n cael ei thalu'n ôl deirgwaith drosodd yn y flwyddyn gyntaf oherwydd llai o anafusion a llai o faich ar y GIG. Felly, rwy’n gwrthod disgrifiad yr Aelod o’r polisi hwnnw'n llwyr.

O ran yr arian ychwanegol a ddarparwyd gennym ar gyfer Trafnidiaeth Cymru, nid yw hwnnw’n adlewyrchiad o unrhyw benderfyniadau gwael neu gamreoli gan Trafnidiaeth Cymru na chan Lywodraeth Cymru. Yn syml, mae'n adlewyrchiad o'r ffaith bod y gyllideb a osodwyd wrth fasnachfreinio yn rhagdybio cynnydd dramatig iawn yn nifer y teithwyr. Nid yw hynny wedi bod yn bosibl gan ein bod wedi cael y pandemig, ac mae’r pandemig wedi lleihau nifer y defnyddwyr, ac mae hynny wedi creu bwlch ariannol yr oedd angen ei lenwi. A phe na baem yn ei lenwi, byddai llawer o'r rhwydwaith rheilffyrdd yn cau. Nawr, ymddengys nad oedd dymuno cau ein maes awyr yn ddigon iddi, a'i bod bellach yn dymuno cael gwared ar ein rhwydwaith rheilffyrdd. A chredaf fod y safbwynt gwrthgyferbyniol y mae'r Aelod yn ei ddatgan—. Yr wythnos diwethaf, roedd yn dweud wrth bobl ei bod am i arian ychwanegol gael ei wario ar orsaf drenau newydd yng Nghaerllion. Yr wythnos hon, dywed wrthym fod gwario arian ar reilffyrdd yn wastraff arian.

Deputy Minister, firstly, please don't ever misconstrue my words; I know exactly what I've said in this place, and I've always said Cardiff Airport should be sold, it should be making a profit, and it should be advancing. I would love to see more stations across Wales, but, equally, I'm under the impression, and I take on board—and I've said this publicly and privately—that if the health service is failing, if education is failing, I'm more than happy for that money to be spent there, but I cannot fathom where this £125 million is going. But let me go to my question, Presiding Officer.

Deputy Minister, it's been just over a month now since your 20 mph speed limit project came into force. Despite what you and your colleagues are repeatedly saying again and again and again, it's abundantly clear that the public are still not on board with it, no matter how you paint this picture to me. Before 20 mph speed limits were introduced, a poll showed 46 per cent supported the measure, 34 per cent opposed it. Yet, last week a new poll revealed the tide has turned with people now starting to realise just how disastrous your scheme actually is. This new poll showed that nearly 60 per cent of people opposed your £33 million project, with just 29 per cent in favour. You said, Deputy Minister, and I quote:

'we're pretty confident that, as people get used to it, support will rise.'

Well, I hate to be the one to bring you back down to this planet, Deputy Minister, but support isn't rising, because the people of Wales don't want your 20 mph scheme. Deputy Minister, do you now admit you've made a mistake and got this scheme wrong?

Ddirprwy Weinidog, yn gyntaf, os gwelwch yn dda, peidiwch byth â chamddehongli fy ngeiriau; gwn yn union beth yr wyf wedi’i ddweud yn y lle hwn, ac rwyf bob amser wedi dweud y dylid gwerthu Maes Awyr Caerdydd, y dylai fod yn gwneud elw, ac y dylai fod yn gwneud cynnydd. Buaswn wrth fy modd yn gweld mwy o orsafoedd ledled Cymru, ond yn yr un modd, rwyf o dan yr argraff, ac rwy’n derbyn—ac rwyf wedi dweud hyn yn gyhoeddus ac yn breifat—os yw’r gwasanaeth iechyd yn methu, os yw addysg yn methu, rwy'n fwy na bodlon i'r arian hwnnw gael ei wario ar hynny, ond ni allaf ddirnad i ble mae'r £125 miliwn hwn yn mynd. Ond gadewch imi ofyn fy nghwestiwn, Lywydd.

Ddirprwy Weinidog, mae eich prosiect terfyn cyflymder 20 mya bellach wedi bod mewn grym ers ychydig dros fis. Er gwaethaf yr hyn yr ydych chi a’ch cyd-Aelodau yn ei ddweud dro ar ôl tro ar ôl tro, mae’n gwbl amlwg nad yw’r cyhoedd wedi'i dderbyn, ni waeth sut rydych chi'n paentio’r darlun hwn i mi. Cyn i derfynau cyflymder 20 mya gael eu cyflwyno, dangosodd arolwg barn fod 46 y cant yn cefnogi'r mesur, a 34 y cant yn ei wrthwynebu. Ac eto, yr wythnos diwethaf, datgelodd arolwg barn newydd fod y llanw wedi troi, gyda phobl bellach yn dechrau sylweddoli pa mor drychinebus yw eich cynllun mewn gwirionedd. Dangosodd yr arolwg barn newydd hwn fod bron i 60 y cant o bobl yn gwrthwynebu eich prosiect £33 miliwn, gyda dim ond 29 y cant o'i blaid. Fe ddywedoch chi, Ddirprwy Weinidog, ac rwy'n dyfynnu:

'rydym yn eithaf hyderus, wrth i bobl ddod i arfer ag ef, y bydd cefnogaeth i'r mesur yn cynyddu.'

Wel, mae'n gas gennyf fod yr un i ddod â chi nôl i'r blaned hon, Ddirprwy Weinidog, ond nid yw'r gefnogaeth yn cynyddu, gan nad yw pobl Cymru eisiau eich cynllun 20 mya. Ddirprwy Weinidog, a ydych chi bellach yn cyfaddef eich bod wedi gwneud camgymeriad ac wedi gwneud y peth anghywir gyda'r cynllun hwn?

13:45

Well, I'm afraid the Conservative spokeswoman on transport doesn't understand how transport works, and that is a real problem for scrutiny and informed criticism in this debate. She says she doesn't want to close the airport, she simply wants to sell it and for it to make a profit. There is hardly an airport in the world that makes a profit. They are not a profit-making entity, and we rescued it from collapse in the private sector, because we thought Wales needs an airport. [Interruption.] Janet Finch-Saunders says it's a waste of taxpayers' money to save an airport. Yet, Conservative mayor Ben Houchen, who is lauded by her and her colleagues, has done exactly the same in the north-east. Airports need support, particularly after COVID when passengers numbers collapsed. So, the idea—. There's nobody who wants to buy a loss-making airport. 

Wel, rwy’n ofni nad yw llefarydd trafnidiaeth y Ceidwadwyr yn deall sut mae trafnidiaeth yn gweithio, ac mae honno’n broblem wirioneddol ar gyfer craffu a beirniadaeth wybodus yn y ddadl hon. Dywed nad yw'n dymuno cau'r maes awyr, ei bod yn dymuno'i werthu ac iddo wneud elw. Go brin fod unrhyw faes awyr yn y byd yn gwneud elw. Nid ydynt yn endidau sy’n gwneud elw, ac fe wnaethom ei achub rhag mynd i'r wal yn y sector preifat am ein bod yn meddwl bod angen maes awyr ar Gymru. [Torri ar draws.] Dywed Janet Finch-Saunders fod achub maes awyr yn wastraff arian trethdalwyr. Ac eto, mae’r maer Ceidwadol, Ben Houchen, sy’n cael ei glodfori ganddi hi a’i chyd-Geidwadwyr, wedi gwneud yr un peth yn union yng ngogledd-ddwyrain Lloegr. Mae angen cefnogaeth ar feysydd awyr, yn enwedig ar ôl COVID, pan leihaodd nifer y teithwyr yn sylweddol. Felly, mae'r syniad—. Nid oes unrhyw un yn dymuno prynu maes awyr sy'n gwneud colled.

But you're propping it up though. 

Ond rydych chi'n ei gynnal.

We support it because we think it's an important piece of economic and transport infrastructure, and that's why we do it. So, if she simply says, 'Sell it', well, that would mean it would close. So, that's the consequence of her approach and she needs to own that. 

In terms of the 20 mph speed limit, it's been just over a month now since it was brought in, and it will take time for people to get used to it and for people to adapt. That was the experience in Spain, that was the experience in London, that was the experience in Edinburgh, and that is the experience we're having. Average speeds are down. Most people are complying. They're not sticking to 20 mph, but the number of people driving over 30 mph has dramatically fallen, and that brings the big road safety gains and we are confident this is the right thing to do. 

Rydym yn rhoi cefnogaeth iddo am ein bod yn credu ei fod yn ddarn pwysig o seilwaith economaidd a thrafnidiaeth, a dyna pam ein bod yn gwneud hynny. Felly, os yw hi'n dweud, 'Gwerthwch ef', wel, byddai hynny'n golygu y byddai'n cau. Felly, dyna ganlyniad ei hagwedd hi, ac mae angen iddi gydnabod hynny.

Ar y terfyn cyflymder 20 mya, ychydig dros fis sydd wedi bod ers ei gyflwyno, a bydd yn cymryd amser i bobl ddod i arfer ag ef ac i bobl addasu. Dyna oedd y profiad yn Sbaen, dyna oedd y profiad yn Llundain, dyna oedd y profiad yng Nghaeredin, a dyna'r profiad rydym ni'n ei gael. Mae cyflymderau cyfartalog yn is. Mae'r rhan fwyaf o bobl yn cydymffurfio. Nid ydynt yn cadw at 20 mya, ond mae nifer y bobl sy'n gyrru dros 30 mya wedi gostwng yn ddramatig, ac mae hynny'n darparu'r enillion mawr o ran diogelwch ar y ffyrdd ac rydym yn hyderus mai dyma'r peth iawn i'w wneud.

Wow, Deputy Minister, talk about being delusional today. Deputy Minister, you've repeatedly claimed that introducing 20 mph will add just one minute on to a journey time. Yet, despite your claims, a major bus operator has said that your scheme is, in fact, adding 12 minutes each way on journeys between Caernarfon, Bangor and Llandudno. As a result, Arriva is currently undertaking a large review of the network, with cuts and alterations on the cards, because 20 mph limits are having a big impact on punctuality. And, of course, it's not just public transport that is being affected by the 20 mph speed limits, it's affecting people's journey times, damaging people's livelihoods, slowing down emergency services and delivering a whopping £9 billion blow to the economy. Instead of supporting buses, supporting hard-working residents, supporting businesses, supporting our economy, you are actively choosing to punish them with this 20 mph scheme, and I'm not alone in this verdict. Just take a look at the record-breaking petition, which my colleague Laura Anne Jones did mention, calling for the 20 mph scheme to be scrapped, which has gained more than 460,000 signatures, and the countless protests that have been taking place all around the country. So, Deputy Minister, I accept what you've said that it's just the first month, but when is the next review going to take place? At what point are you going to realise and say, 'You know what, this is the time we need to look back, take stock and do a u-turn on the decision'? And also, aside from that, will you listen to the Welsh public, and actually go ahead and scrap this scheme, before it does any more unnecessary damage? Thank you. 

Waw, Ddirprwy Weinidog, sôn am dwyllo eich hun heddiw. Ddirprwy Weinidog, rydych wedi honni dro ar ôl tro mai un funud yn unig y bydd cyflwyno 20 mya yn ei ychwanegu at daith. Ac eto, er gwaethaf eich honiadau, mae gweithredwr bysiau mawr wedi dweud bod eich cynllun yn ychwanegu 12 munud bob ffordd ar deithiau rhwng Caernarfon, Bangor a Llandudno. O ganlyniad, mae Arriva ar hyn o bryd yn cynnal adolygiad mawr o’r rhwydwaith, gyda thoriadau a newidiadau yn yr arfaeth, am fod terfynau 20 mya yn cael effaith fawr ar brydlondeb. Ac wrth gwrs, nid trafnidiaeth gyhoeddus yn unig sy'n cael ei heffeithio gan y terfynau cyflymder 20 mya, mae'n effeithio ar amseroedd teithio pobl, yn niweidio bywoliaeth pobl, yn arafu gwasanaethau brys ac yn rhoi ergyd aruthrol o £9 biliwn i'r economi. Yn lle cefnogi bysiau, cefnogi trigolion gweithgar, cefnogi busnesau, cefnogi ein heconomi, rydych chi'n dewis eu cosbi â’r cynllun 20 mya, ac nid fi'n unig sy'n credu hynny. Edrychwch ar y ddeiseb sydd wedi torri pob record, y soniodd fy nghyd-Aelod Laura Anne Jones amdani, ac sy'n galw am gael gwared ar y cynllun 20 mya, deiseb sydd wedi casglu mwy na 460,000 o lofnodion, a’r protestiadau dirifedi sydd wedi'u cynnal ledled y wlad. Felly, Ddirprwy Weinidog, rwy’n derbyn yr hyn rydych wedi’i ddweud mai dim ond y mis cyntaf yw hwn, ond pryd fydd yr adolygiad nesaf yn cael ei gynnal? Ar ba bwynt y gwnewch chi sylweddoli a dweud, 'Wyddoch chi beth, mae'n bryd inni edrych yn ôl, pwyso a mesur a gwneud tro pedol ar y penderfyniad'? A hefyd, ar wahân i hynny, a wnewch chi wrando ar y cyhoedd yng Nghymru a chael gwared ar y cynllun hwn, cyn iddo wneud mwy o niwed diangen? Diolch.

Llywydd, I'm bound to observe that if I spoke to Natasha Asghar the way she speaks to me she would be the first person to complain. I think there are courtesies in this Chamber we should observe. I know she does these performances for social media, but this really isn't the best way to scrutinise, and I'd ask her to reflect on her behaviour.

On the impact on bus routes, we've been asking the bus companies for data that shows the impact that lower speeds has had on their performance. We've had very little, and we are keen to work with them to understand that. If there are particular corridors the bus routes rely on where the speed is an issue, then, of course, local authorities have the option to look at exemption criteria. They also have the ability to look at bus priority measures, which we are keen to support them on, and we are funding a large number of those this financial year to allow buses to deal with the congestion and travel at a faster pace. I think the truth is that a large number of bus companies were struggling with punctuality in the first place because of bus driver shortages, and they’ve taken the opportunity of both the change in bus funding and the 20 mph to recalibrate their timetables to create more resilient services that are reliable, because they can be confident they can staff them. There is some evidence to show that 20 mph in some areas is impacting journey times, but the picture is incomplete and we’re committed to work with the bus industry to understand it better.

Lywydd, mae'n rhaid imi ddweud, pe bawn yn siarad â Natasha Asghar yn y ffordd y mae'n siarad â mi, hi fyddai'r cyntaf i gwyno. Credaf fod lefel o gwrteisi yn y Siambr hon y dylem gadw ati. Gwn ei bod yn gwneud y perfformiadau hyn ar gyfer y cyfryngau cymdeithasol, ond nid dyma'r ffordd orau o graffu, a hoffwn ofyn iddi ystyried ei hymddygiad.

Ar yr effaith ar lwybrau bysiau, rydym wedi bod yn gofyn i'r cwmnïau bysiau am ddata sy'n dangos yr effaith y mae cyflymderau is wedi'i chael ar eu perfformiad. Ychydig iawn o ddata a gawsom, ac rydym yn awyddus i weithio gyda nhw i ddeall hynny. Os oes coridorau penodol y mae’r llwybrau bysiau yn dibynnu arnynt lle mae’r cyflymder yn broblem, mae gan awdurdodau lleol opsiwn i edrych ar feini prawf ar gyfer eithrio wrth gwrs. Gallant edrych hefyd ar fesurau blaenoriaeth i fysiau, ac rydym yn awyddus i’w cefnogi gyda'r rheini, ac yn ariannu nifer fawr o’r rheini yn y flwyddyn ariannol hon i ganiatáu i fysiau ymdopi â’r tagfeydd a theithio’n gyflymach. Rwy'n credu mai’r gwir amdani yw bod nifer fawr o gwmnïau bysiau wedi cael trafferth gyda phrydlondeb yn y lle cyntaf oherwydd prinder gyrwyr bysiau, ac maent wedi achub ar y cyfle gyda'r newid i gyllid bysiau a’r 20 mya i ailraddnodi eu hamserlenni i greu gwasanaethau mwy gwydn a dibynadwy, oherwydd gallant fod yn hyderus o'u gallu i'w staffio. Ceir peth tystiolaeth i ddangos bod 20 mya yn effeithio ar amseroedd teithio mewn rhai ardaloedd, ond mae’r darlun yn anghyflawn, ac rydym wedi ymrwymo i weithio gyda’r diwydiant bysiau i’w ddeall yn well.

13:50

For clarification, there was nothing out of order in Natasha Asghar's contribution there that I heard. If I didn't hear anything in particular that I should have noted, then I'm sure the Deputy Minister will contact me after this session.

Er eglurder, ni chlywais unrhyw beth amhriodol yng nghyfraniad Natasha Asghar. Os na chlywais unrhyw beth penodol y dylwn fod wedi’i nodi, rwy’n siŵr y gwnaiff y Dirprwy Weinidog gysylltu â mi ar ôl y sesiwn hon.

Llefarydd Plaid Cymru nawr—Mabon ap Gwynfor.

Plaid Cymru spokesperson, Mabon ap Gwynfor.

Diolch, Llywydd. The Minister will be aware that Wrexham County Council has voted twice against their draft local development plan, which was intended to chart the course of development in the region, including the allocation of space for thousands of new homes. This rejection has raised concerns regarding the validity of the data on which the plan was based, notably the lack of up-to-date information concerning projected population growth and other critical factors that should inform planning for housing. The implications of this decision go beyond the immediate, affecting the future viability and suitability of housing solutions for generations to come. How can you plan for future housing developments if you don’t know where they’re needed, how many are required and who they’re being built for? So, in light of Wrexham County Council’s rejection of the LDP, partly due to outdated data, can the Minister provide information on what steps the Government is taking to ensure that local authorities have access to the most accurate and up-to-date data when formulating their development plans to ensure housing is fit for future generations?

Diolch, Lywydd. Bydd y Gweinidog yn ymwybodol fod Cyngor Sir Wrecsam wedi pleidleisio ddwywaith yn erbyn eu cynllun datblygu lleol drafft, a fwriadwyd i arwain datblygiad yn y rhanbarth, gan gynnwys dyrannu lle ar gyfer miloedd o gartrefi newydd. Mae'r penderfyniad hwn i wrthod y cynllun wedi codi pryderon ynghylch dilysrwydd y data a oedd yn sail i'r cynllun, yn enwedig y diffyg gwybodaeth gyfredol am y twf a ragwelir yn y boblogaeth a ffactorau allweddol eraill a ddylai lywio unrhyw gynlluniau ar gyfer tai. Mae goblygiadau’r penderfyniad hwn yn mynd y tu hwnt i’r canlyniadau uniongyrchol, gan effeithio ar hyfywedd ac addasrwydd atebion tai am genedlaethau i ddod. Sut y gallwch gynllunio ar gyfer datblygiadau tai yn y dyfodol os nad ydych yn gwybod ble mae eu hangen, faint sydd eu hangen ac ar gyfer pwy y cânt eu hadeiladu? Felly, yng ngoleuni penderfyniad Cyngor Sir Wrecsam i wrthod y CDLl, yn rhannol oherwydd data sydd wedi dyddio, a all y Gweinidog ddarparu gwybodaeth am ba gamau y mae’r Llywodraeth yn eu cymryd i sicrhau bod gan awdurdodau lleol fynediad at y data mwyaf cywir a chyfredol wrth lunio eu cynlluniau datblygu i sicrhau bod tai yn addas ar gyfer cenedlaethau’r dyfodol?

Diolch, Mabon ap Gwynfor. I’m afraid the premise on which you’ve based your question is a little flawed. The LDP process is a process in which a plan, which is the council’s own plan, is subject to public inquiry, has an inspector appointed, goes through all of the stages; the council’s own officers and the inspector appointed to scrutinise the plan have all recommended acceptance to the council. The council has not accepted its own plan—I can’t emphasise enough that it’s its own plan that it hasn’t accepted—and it’s now subject to judicial review proceedings. So, I’m constrained as to what else I can say because of those judicial review proceedings. My understanding, though, is that the council isn’t able to put up a proper defence to those and it remains to be seen what will happen. So, I’m afraid I don’t really accept the basis of the question, Mabon. I’m more than happy to have a discussion with you as I already have had with other members of your group about exactly what’s happening, but I don’t think this is something that we can discuss in any detail in Plenary.

Diolch, Mabon ap Gwynfor. Mae arnaf ofn fod cynsail eich cwestiwn yn anghywir. Mae proses y CDLl yn un lle mae cynllun, sef cynllun y cyngor ei hun, yn destun ymchwiliad cyhoeddus, caiff arolygydd ei benodi, ac mae'n mynd drwy bob un o’r camau; mae swyddogion y cyngor ei hun a’r arolygydd a benodwyd i graffu ar y cynllun oll wedi argymell y dylai’r cyngor ei dderbyn. Nid yw’r cyngor wedi derbyn ei gynllun ei hun—ni allaf bwysleisio digon mai ei gynllun ei hun yw'r hyn nad yw wedi’i dderbyn—ac mae bellach yn destun adolygiad barnwrol. Felly, rwy’n gyfyngedig o ran beth arall y gallaf ei ddweud oherwydd yr adolygiad barnwrol hwnnw. Fy nealltwriaeth i, fodd bynnag, yw nad yw’r cyngor yn gallu sicrhau amddiffyniad priodol i hynny, ac amser a ddengys beth fydd yn digwydd. Felly, mae arnaf ofn nad wyf yn derbyn cynsail eich cwestiwn, Mabon. Rwy’n fwy na pharod i gael trafodaeth gyda chi, fel rwyf eisoes wedi cael gydag aelodau eraill o’ch grŵp, ynglŷn â beth yn union sy’n digwydd, ond ni chredaf fod hyn yn rhywbeth y gallwn ei drafod yn fanwl yn y Cyfarfod Llawn.

Thank you for that response, and I understand that you are restricted with what you can say in this regard. However, when you say that the council has rejected its own plans, it is a democratic body and the democratically elected members have refused the draft proposal. Wrexham County Council evidently voted against the local development plan, in part because they didn’t believe it would serve the needs of local communities. Considering the LDP that returned from inspectors only included a 9 per cent affordable housing component, rejection shouldn’t have come as a surprise. What’s apparent to many—including campaigners, local councillors and myself—is that the minimal commitment to affordable housing in the plan effectively gives free rein to developers to build unaffordable housing that only really benefits them, not the local communities. Even in this case, it’s possible that Welsh Government could force the plan on the local council and the population against the wishes of residents in the area. Local development plans must be used as a tool to serve communities, not to give carte blanche to large developers. Plans must prioritise the delivery of enough truly affordable housing to serve the needs of current and future communities. So, does the Minister agree with that statement?

Diolch am eich ymateb, ac rwy'n deall bod yr hyn y gallwch ei ddweud am hyn yn gyfyngedig. Fodd bynnag, pan ddywedwch fod y cyngor wedi gwrthod ei gynlluniau ei hun, mae’n gorff democrataidd, ac mae’r aelodau a etholwyd yn ddemocrataidd wedi gwrthod y cynnig drafft. Mae Cyngor Sir Wrecsam, yn amlwg, wedi pleidleisio yn erbyn y cynllun datblygu lleol, yn rhannol am nad oeddent yn credu y byddai’n gwasanaethu anghenion cymunedau lleol. O ystyried bod y CDLl a ddaeth yn ôl gan arolygwyr ond yn cynnwys o 9 y cant o dai fforddiadwy, ni ddylai fod yn syndod ei fod wedi'i wrthod. Yr hyn sy’n amlwg i lawer—gan gynnwys ymgyrchwyr, cynghorwyr lleol a minnau—yw bod cyn lleied o ymrwymiad i dai fforddiadwy yn y cynllun fel ei fod, i bob pwrpas, yn rhoi rhwydd hynt i ddatblygwyr adeiladu tai anfforddiadwy sydd ond o fudd iddyn nhw, nid i'r cymunedau lleol. Hyd yn oed yn yr achos hwn, mae’n bosibl y gallai Llywodraeth Cymru orfodi’r cynllun ar y boblogaeth a'r cyngor lleol yn groes i ddymuniadau trigolion yn yr ardal. Mae'n rhaid defnyddio cynlluniau datblygu lleol fel arf i wasanaethu cymunedau, nid i roi rhwydd hynt i ddatblygwyr mawr. Mae'n rhaid i gynlluniau roi blaenoriaeth i ddarparu digon o dai sydd o ddifrif yn fforddiadwy er mwyn gwasanaethu anghenion cymunedau heddiw ac yfory. Felly, a yw’r Gweinidog yn cytuno â’r datganiad hwnnw?

No, I’m afraid I don’t agree with that statement at all. The best way to stop speculative development in an area is to have adopted a proper plan. The lack of the plan is what causes the speculative development, because a council has no plan against which to test its planning applications, and that's self-evident. As I said, I'm not able to discuss the ins and outs of the situation in Wrexham because of the legal situation there, but I cannot emphasise enough that this is a plan that was taken through by the council through all of its systems, it went through the inspection and arrived at the final stage before it was voted against. This is not anything to do with democracy, this is entirely to do with a misunderstanding, I'm afraid, by the leadership of that council as to the actions they've taken and the consequences for their planning system, which are that they have no plan against which to measure any planning application. 

Na, mae arnaf ofn nad wyf yn cytuno â'r datganiad hwnnw o gwbl. Y ffordd orau o atal datblygu tybiannol mewn ardal yw mabwysiadu cynllun addas. Diffyg cynllun sy’n achosi’r datblygu tybiannol, gan nad oes gan gyngor gynllun i brofi ei geisiadau cynllunio yn ei erbyn, ac mae hynny’n amlwg. Fel y dywedais, ni allaf drafod manylion y sefyllfa yn Wrecsam oherwydd y sefyllfa gyfreithiol yno, ond ni allaf bwysleisio digon fod hwn yn gynllun a aeth drwy holl systemau'r cyngor, drwy'r arolygiad, a chyrraedd y cam olaf cyn iddynt bleidleisio yn ei erbyn. Nid oes a wnelo hyn â democratiaeth o gwbl, mae a wnelo â chamddealltwriaeth arweinyddiaeth y cyngor hwnnw ynghylch y camau y maent wedi'u cymryd a'r canlyniadau i'w system gynllunio, sef nad oes cynllun ganddynt i fesur unrhyw gais cynllunio yn ei erbyn.

13:55
Ynni Adnewyddadwy
Renewable Energy

3. Pa asesiad y mae'r Gweinidog wedi'i wneud o hygyrchedd ynni adnewyddadwy i fusnesau? OQ60163

3. What assessment has the Minister made of the accessibility of renewable energy for businesses? OQ60163

Our renewable energy targets commit us to scaling up the deployment of renewable energy to support net zero, our communities and businesses in Wales. We are supporting strategic planning in enabling infrastructure to bring that energy to where it is needed and supporting businesses themselves to invest in renewable energy technologies.

Mae ein targedau ynni adnewyddadwy yn ein hymrwymo i gynyddu’r defnydd o ynni adnewyddadwy i gefnogi sero net, ein cymunedau a’n busnesau yng Nghymru. Rydym yn cefnogi cynllunio strategol i alluogi seilwaith i ddod â’r ynni hwnnw i’r man lle mae ei angen ac yn cefnogi busnesau eu hunain i fuddsoddi mewn technolegau ynni adnewyddadwy.

Thank you, Minister. Minister, recent global events have rightly brought energy security to the top of the agenda. The Welsh Government's net-zero plan has steered the focus towards renewable energy production, and I welcome the steps taken to bolster our capability. However, as you'll know from my recent letter to you about a solar farm and a private wire scheme in my constituency, one that plans to supply electricity to major local businesses, these sorts of local projects that we need to see develop are coming up against real barriers in gaining an export connection agreement to the grid.

The local scheme in my area have been told that a connection agreement won't be available until 2029. Indeed, I've heard that some may have to wait as long as 10 years or more. Clearly, then, these blockages are at total odds with the Government's expectation on carbon reduction. Minister, how do you envisage getting around this impasse, and will you liaise with National Grid to find ways to ensure that local renewable projects can advance?

Diolch, Weinidog. Weinidog, mae digwyddiadau byd-eang diweddar, yn gwbl briodol, wedi codi diogeledd ynni i frig yr agenda. Mae cynllun sero net Llywodraeth Cymru wedi llywio’r ffocws tuag at gynhyrchu ynni adnewyddadwy, ac rwy'n croesawu'r camau a gymerwyd i gryfhau ein gallu. Fodd bynnag, fel y gwyddoch o fy llythyr diweddar atoch am fferm solar a chynllun gwifrenni preifat yn fy etholaeth, un sy’n bwriadu cyflenwi trydan i fusnesau lleol mawr, mae’r mathau hyn o brosiectau lleol y mae angen inni eu gweld yn datblygu yn wynebu rhwystrau gwirioneddol rhag cael cytundeb cysylltu i allforio i'r grid.

Mae’r cynllun lleol yn fy ardal i wedi cael gwybod na fydd cytundeb cysylltu ar gael tan 2029. Yn wir, rwyf wedi clywed efallai y bydd yn rhaid i rai aros cymaint â 10 mlynedd neu fwy. Yn amlwg felly, mae'r rhwystrau hyn yn gwbl groes i ddisgwyliadau'r Llywodraeth ynghylch lleihau allyriadau carbon. Weinidog, sut y rhagwelwch y gellir datrys y broblem hon, ac a wnewch chi gysylltu â’r Grid Cenedlaethol i ddod o hyd i ffyrdd o sicrhau y gall prosiectau adnewyddadwy lleol symud ymlaen?

Thank you, Peter. We do a lot of work with National Grid, and I'm delighted that, after many, many years of resisting the idea of having a holistic network design, the Conservative Government has finally, and at the last moment, realised that a planned grid is something that's necessary, and not one that simply responds to requests to connect, which is what we've had hitherto. We published the 'Future Energy Grids for Wales' report in July of this year, and that report was very clear that we need this new infrastructure and that we need to rewire the country to the twenty-first century, and the infrastructure also needs to be well designed and located sensitively.

We're using the evidence to inform regional and national electricity network plans and delivery programmes, and I'm very hopeful, though it's not yet confirmed, that we'll be able to be a demonstrator for that approach for the UK. I had a very good meeting with Ofgem very recently about the possibility of Wales doing that, and I really hope that that happens. In the meantime, what we clearly need is a lot more investment upfront by the grid in infrastructure so that we can get down these ridiculously long connection times. I have every sympathy with the Member about the length of time it takes to connect to the grid, but this is, I'm afraid, as a result of very serious underinvestment by the UK Government in this sort of infrastructure more generally. 

Diolch, Peter. Rydym yn gwneud llawer o waith gyda'r Grid Cenedlaethol, ac rwyf wrth fy modd, ar ôl blynyddoedd lawer o wrthsefyll y syniad o gael cynllun rhwydwaith cyfannol, fod y Llywodraeth Geidwadol o'r diwedd, ac ar y funud olaf, wedi sylweddoli bod grid wedi'i gynllunio yn rhywbeth sy'n angenrheidiol, ac nid yn un sy'n ymateb i geisiadau i gysylltu yn unig, sef yr hyn a oedd gennym hyd yma. Gwnaethom gyhoeddi adroddiad 'Gridiau Ynni'r Dyfodol i Gymru' ym mis Gorffennaf eleni, ac roedd yr adroddiad hwnnw'n nodi'n glir iawn fod angen y seilwaith newydd hwn arnom a bod angen inni ailwifro'r wlad ar gyfer yr unfed ganrif ar hugain, a bod angen i'r seilwaith hefyd fod wedi'i lunio'n dda a'i leoli'n sensitif.

Rydym yn defnyddio'r dystiolaeth i lywio rhaglenni cyflawni a chynlluniau rhwydweithiau trydan rhanbarthol a chenedlaethol, ac rwy'n obeithiol iawn, er nad yw wedi'i gadarnhau eto, y gallwn fod yn arddangoswr y dull hwnnw ar gyfer y DU. Cefais gyfarfod da iawn gydag Ofgem yn ddiweddar iawn ynglŷn â’r posibilrwydd y gallai Cymru wneud hynny, ac rwy’n mawr obeithio y bydd hynny’n digwydd. Yn y cyfamser wrth gwrs, mae angen llawer mwy o fuddsoddiad ymlaen llaw gan y grid mewn seilwaith er mwyn inni allu lleihau'r amseroedd cysylltu chwerthinllyd o hir hyn. Rwy'n cydymdeimlo â’r Aelod am yr amser y mae’n ei gymryd i gysylltu â’r grid, ond mae arnaf ofn fod hyn yn ganlyniad i danfuddsoddi difrifol iawn gan Lywodraeth y DU yn y math hwn o seilwaith yn fwy cyffredinol.

Diogelwch Adeiladau
Building Safety

4. A wnaiff y Gweinidog roi diweddariad ar gynnydd o ran gosod cladin sy'n gwrthsefyll tân ar adeiladau yng Nghymru? OQ60135

4. Will the Minister provide an update on progress to install fire-resistant cladding on buildings in Wales? OQ60135

In Wales we continue to progress our remediation programme. The programme is taking a whole-building approach to fire safety, not one that targets cladding in isolation.

Yng Nghymru, rydym yn parhau i ddatblygu ein rhaglen gyweirio. Mae’r rhaglen yn mabwysiadu dull adeilad cyfan mewn perthynas â diogelwch tân, nid un sy’n targedu cladin yn unig.

Thank you for that answer, Minister. Obviously, representing the region of South Wales Central, here in Cardiff Bay we most probably have the greatest density of buildings that are affected by the fire cladding issue. Can you give an indication of how many buildings on which the remediation work has begun that the Welsh Government is supporting? And what work is being undertaken to reach out to buildings and, in particular the leaseholders in those buildings who have yet to see any progress being made in reinstating the fire safety credit worthiness of those buildings?

Diolch am eich ateb, Weinidog. Yn amlwg, a minnau'n cynrychioli rhanbarth Canol De Cymru, yma ym Mae Caerdydd, mae’n debyg mai gennym ni y mae’r trwch mwyaf o adeiladau y mae mater cladin tân yn effeithio arnynt. A allwch chi roi syniad o faint o adeiladau y mae’r gwaith cyweirio wedi dechrau arnynt y mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn eu cefnogi? A pha waith sy'n mynd rhagddo i estyn allan at adeiladau, ac yn enwedig y lesddeiliaid yn yr adeiladau hynny nad ydynt wedi gweld unrhyw gynnydd eto ar adfer cymhwystra'r adeiladau hynny ar gyfer credyd diogelwch tân?

Yes, I can easily do that. Ten of the UK's largest residential housing developers have signed contracts with the Welsh Government committing them to undertake the fire safety works in Wales. Works have started or will have started on 28 of those buildings by the end of this year, with estimated start dates given for 36 buildings. One building has had its work completed, and preliminary works and investigations continue on those remaining. I've also previously announced the orphan building pilot scheme. That's for buildings where the developer has either ceased trading, is unknown, or the building was developed over 30 years ago. Work schedules are being developed ahead of remediation works, which will be funded by the Welsh Government. We've got 30 buildings identified in the first cohort of those buildings. And in the social sector, they've received funding to remediate all fire safety issues, including cladding on buildings over 11m in height. To date, we've spent £94 million to deliver works on over 100 buildings in the social sector. Then, lastly, I did meet with stakeholders in Celestia, which I know Andrew R.T. Davies has raised a number of times, very recently in the last couple of weeks. We had a very productive meeting and we're developing a number of things as a result of that meeting.

Iawn, gallaf wneud hynny'n hawdd. Mae deg o ddatblygwyr tai preswyl mwyaf y DU wedi arwyddo cytundebau gyda Llywodraeth Cymru yn eu hymrwymo i wneud y gwaith diogelwch tân yng Nghymru. Mae gwaith wedi dechrau neu bydd gwaith wedi dechrau ar 28 o'r adeiladau hynny erbyn diwedd eleni, gydag amcangyfrif o ddyddiadau dechrau wedi'u rhoi ar gyfer 36 o adeiladau. Mae gwaith wedi'i gwblhau ar un adeilad, ac mae gwaith rhagarweiniol ac ymchwiliadau'n parhau ar y rhai sy'n weddill. Rwyf hefyd wedi cyhoeddi’r cynllun peilot adeiladau amddifad. Mae hynny ar gyfer adeiladau lle mae'r datblygwr naill ai wedi rhoi'r gorau i fasnachu, yn anhysbys, neu lle cafodd yr adeilad ei ddatblygu dros 30 mlynedd yn ôl. Mae amserlenni gwaith yn cael eu datblygu cyn y gwaith cyweirio, a fydd yn cael ei ariannu gan Lywodraeth Cymru. Mae gennym 30 o adeiladau wedi'u nodi yng ngharfan gyntaf yr adeiladau hynny. Ac yn y sector cymdeithasol, maent wedi derbyn cyllid i gyweirio'r holl broblemau diogelwch tân, gan gynnwys cladin ar adeiladau dros 11m o uchder. Hyd yn hyn, rydym wedi gwario £94 miliwn i wneud gwaith ar dros 100 o adeiladau yn y sector cymdeithasol. Yna, yn olaf, cyfarfûm â rhanddeiliaid yn Celestia, y gwn fod Andrew R.T. Davies wedi'i godi nifer o weithiau, yn ddiweddar iawn yn ystod yr ychydig wythnosau diwethaf. Cawsom gyfarfod cynhyrchiol iawn ac rydym yn datblygu nifer o bethau o ganlyniad i'r cyfarfod hwnnw.

14:00
Gwelyau Glaswellt y Môr
Seagrass Meadows

5. Beth y mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn ei wneud i gynyddu nifer gwelyau glaswellt y môr? OQ60141

5. What is the Welsh Government doing to scale up seagrass meadows? OQ60141

The Welsh Government is committed to restoring and enhancing seagrass habitats, recognising their importance to biodiversity, carbon sequestration and flood prevention. Funding opportunities to scale up seagrass meadows have already been made available through the nature networks fund and the marine protected area management grant schemes.

Mae Llywodraeth Cymru wedi ymrwymo i adfer a gwella cynefinoedd morwellt, gan gydnabod eu pwysigrwydd i fioamrywiaeth, atafaelu carbon ac atal llifogydd. Mae cyfleoedd ariannu i gynyddu gwelyau morwellt eisoes ar gael drwy'r gronfa rhwydweithiau natur a'r cynlluniau grant rheoli ardaloedd morol gwarchodedig.

Thank you. We know, don't we, Minister, that over 30 times more animals live within seagrass compared to adjacent sandy habitats. While seagrass occupies only 0.1 per cent of the sea floor, it is responsible for up to 18 per cent of the organic carbon buried in the ocean. As you also know, I believe too that we can make huge strides towards achieving net zero by embracing seagrass and blue carbon. The Wales seagrass network is a network of organisations and individuals with an interest and role in seagrass monitoring, the science, protection and restoration, or any statutory obligation in Wales. They are doing such tremendous innovative ways to grow seagrass and see it returned to piloted areas. It includes the Welsh Government; Natural Resources Wales; the Crown Estate; Swansea, Cardiff and Bangor universities; the two coastal special areas of conservation; the Wildlife Trusts; World Wildlife Fund Cymru; ports; and others. I'm going to drop a soundbite in here for Frankie Hobro of the Anglesey Sea Zoo, who works really hard on this seagrass restoration on a voluntary basis. So, currently, Project Seagrass chair the group, but they need increased and continued funding to keep this momentum going. So, will you commit? I know that finances are tight, but if we're serious about marine conservation and carbon zero, then we should be serious about providing financial support for the Welsh seagrass network, and indeed anybody else working to restore this vital, vital grass.

Diolch. Rydym yn gwybod, onid ydym, Weinidog, fod dros 30 gwaith yn fwy o anifeiliaid yn byw mewn morwellt o'i gymharu â chynefinoedd tywodlyd cyfagos. Er nad yw morwellt ond yn 0.1 y cant o wely'r môr, mae'n gyfrifol am hyd at 18 y cant o'r carbon organig sydd wedi'i gladdu yn y cefnfor. Fel y gwyddoch hefyd, rwy'n credu y gallwn gymryd camau breision tuag at gyflawni sero net drwy wneud yn fawr o forwellt a charbon glas. Mae rhwydwaith morwellt Cymru yn rhwydwaith o sefydliadau ac unigolion sydd â diddordeb a rôl yn y gwaith o fonitro morwellt, yr wyddoniaeth, diogelwch a gwaith adfer, neu unrhyw rwymedigaeth statudol yng Nghymru. Maent yn gwneud gwaith mor arloesol o dyfu morwellt a sicrhau ei fod yn ddychwelyd i ardaloedd peilot. Mae'n cynnwys Llywodraeth Cymru; Cyfoeth Naturiol Cymru; Ystad y Goron; Prifysgolion Abertawe, Caerdydd a Bangor; dwy ardal cadwraeth arbennig arfordirol; yr Ymddiriedolaethau Natur; Cronfa Bywyd Gwyllt y Byd; porthladdoedd; ac eraill. Rwyf am enwi Frankie Hobro o Sw Môr Môn, sy'n gweithio'n galed iawn ar yr adferiad morwellt ar sail wirfoddol. Felly, ar hyn o bryd, mae Prosiect Morwellt yn cadeirio'r grŵp, ond mae angen mwy o gyllid parhaus arnynt i gadw'r momentwm hwn i fynd. A wnewch chi ymrwymo? Rwy'n gwybod bod cyllid yn dynn, ond os ydym o ddifrif am gadwraeth morol a dyfodol di-garbon, dylem fod o ddifrif ynglŷn â darparu cymorth ariannol i rwydwaith morwellt Cymru, ac unrhyw un arall yn wir sy'n gweithio i adfer y glaswellt hanfodol hwn.

Yes. Thank you, Janet. I absolutely do recognise that habitats have important benefits like enhancing biodiversity through increased feeding opportunities and nursery habitats, which are crucial to our response to both the climate and the nature emergency here in Wales. I recently had the real pleasure of visiting the seagrass meadow at Porthdinllaen with Project Seagrass, to see and assist in the collection of seagrass seeds. I met the most delightful set of young people there, who were collecting the seeds—1 million seagrass seeds to be planted around the coast of Wales. They asked a whole series of questions and were very enthused about the project. We're currently exploring options to identify the most appropriate mechanism to deliver the targeted scheme for marine habitat restoration, specifically for seagrass and salt marsh, and we're doing that in conjunction with Project Seagrass, who are absolutely pivotal to this, and I really value the critical work that they do, and that the volunteers that support them do, to help us across Wales.

The nature networks fund is live now, and I would encourage any interested organisation to consider this. The funding is available for both project delivery and capacity building, to support the development of a future pipeline of projects. We've also made additional opportunities available, as I already said, through the MPA management grant scheme, and will continue to do that in the future. NRW are currently undertaking a series of works to identify habitat suitability for a number of habitat types in the Welsh marine environment, including seagrass, to help us in our decision making for where to target seagrass restoration in Wales, and we're doing that in conjunction with Project Seagrass. We've also had a list of key recommendations from the World Wildlife Fund for seagrass, and my officials are meeting with them to discuss how to take prospects forward. So, I think we will have a really good tale to tell about seagrass restoration, Janet, and I look forward to going snorkelling with you to look at the seeds growing any time soon.

Ie. Diolch yn fawr, Janet. Rwy'n cydnabod yn llwyr fod gan gynefinoedd fanteision pwysig fel gwella bioamrywiaeth drwy gynyddu cyfleoedd bwydo a chynefinoedd meithrin, sy'n hanfodol i'n hymateb i'r hinsawdd a'r argyfwng natur yma yng Nghymru. Yn ddiweddar, cefais y pleser o ymweld â gwelyau morwellt ym Mhorth Dinllaen gyda Prosiect Morwellt, i weld a chynorthwyo gyda'r gwaith o gasglu hadau morwellt. Cyfarfûm â'r bobl ifanc fwyaf hyfryd yno, a oedd yn casglu'r hadau—1 filiwn o hadau morwellt i'w plannu o amgylch arfordir Cymru. Fe wnaethant ofyn cyfres o gwestiynau ac roeddent yn frwdfrydig iawn am y prosiect. Ar hyn o bryd rydym yn archwilio opsiynau i nodi'r mecanwaith mwyaf priodol i gyflawni'r cynllun wedi'i dargedu ar gyfer adfer cynefinoedd morol, yn benodol ar gyfer morwellt a morfa heli, ac rydym yn gwneud hynny ar y cyd â Prosiect Morwellt, sy'n gwbl ganolog i hyn, ac rwy'n gwerthfawrogi'r gwaith hanfodol y maent yn ei wneud, ac y mae'r gwirfoddolwyr sy'n eu cefnogi yn ei wneud, i'n helpu ar hyd a lled Cymru.

Mae'r gronfa rhwydweithiau natur yn weithredol nawr, a hoffwn annog unrhyw sefydliad sydd â diddordeb i ystyried gwneud cais. Mae'r cyllid ar gael ar gyfer cyflawni prosiectau ac adeiladu capasiti, i gefnogi datblygiad nifer o brosiectau yn y dyfodol. Rydym hefyd wedi sicrhau bod cyfleoedd ychwanegol ar gael, fel y dywedais eisoes, drwy gynllun grant rheoli ardaloedd morol gwarchodedig, a byddwn yn parhau i wneud hynny yn y dyfodol. Ar hyn o bryd mae Cyfoeth Naturiol Cymru yn ymgymryd â gwaith i nodi addasrwydd cynefinoedd ar gyfer nifer o wahanol fathau o gynefinoedd yn amgylchedd morol Cymru, gan gynnwys morwellt, i'n helpu i wneud penderfyniadau ynglŷn â lle y dylem dargedu gwaith adfer morwellt yng Nghymru, ac rydym yn gwneud hynny ar y cyd â Prosiect Morwellt. Rydym hefyd wedi cael rhestr o argymhellion allweddol gan Gronfa Bywyd Gwyllt y Byd ar gyfer morwellt, ac mae fy swyddogion yn cyfarfod â nhw i drafod sut y gallwn fwrw ymlaen â syniadau. Felly, rwy'n credu y bydd gennym stori dda iawn i'w hadrodd am adfer morwellt, Janet, ac edrychaf ymlaen at fynd i snorclo gyda chi i edrych ar yr hadau'n tyfu rhyw ben yn fuan.

14:05

We all want to see the photos. [Laughter.]

Bydd pawb ohonom eisiau gweld y lluniau. [Chwerthin.]

Cwestiwn 6. Mike Hedges.

Question 6. Mike Hedges.

Tai Cydweithredol
Co-operative Housing

6. Pa gamau y mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn eu cymryd i gynyddu nifer yr unedau tai cydweithredol? OQ60138

6. What action is the Welsh Government taking to increase the number of co-operative housing units? OQ60138

We remain committed to supporting the development of co-operative and community-led housing in Wales and to enabling people to take more control of their housing. Building on historical support, we have increased funding through Cwmpas to £180,000 revenue funding for three years, so that's 2022-23 to 2024-25, into the future. 

Rydym yn parhau i fod yn ymrwymedig i gefnogi datblygiad tai cydweithredol a thai dan arweiniad y gymuned yng Nghymru ac i alluogi pobl i gymryd mwy o reolaeth dros eu tai. Gan adeiladu ar gymorth hanesyddol, rydym wedi cynyddu cyllid drwy Cwmpas i £180,000 o gyllid refeniw am dair blynedd, felly 2022-23 i 2024-25, i'r dyfodol. 

Thank you, Minister. Co-operative housing is a very popular form of tenure across Europe and north America. John Lennon lived in the Dakota Building, which was a co-operative housing development. It is much less popular in Wales than the rest of Great Britain. I do not believe that we can ignore a form of tenure that is popular throughout the world when we have housing need. They all have Government support and, crucially, had Government support to start up. What new support is the Welsh Government going to give to co-operative housing? And will the Government support the New York model on the conversion of large, empty buildings into co-operative housing?

Diolch yn fawr, Weinidog. Mae tai cydweithredol yn fath poblogaidd iawn o ddeiliadaeth ar draws Ewrop a gogledd America. Roedd John Lennon yn byw yn Adeilad Dakota, a oedd yn ddatblygiad tai cydweithredol. Mae'n llawer llai poblogaidd yng Nghymru na gweddill Prydain. Nid wyf yn credu y gallwn anwybyddu math o ddeiliadaeth sy'n boblogaidd ledled y byd pan fo gennym angen am dai. Mae gan bob un ohonynt gefnogaeth eu Llywodraeth, ac yn hollbwysig, cawsant gefnogaeth eu Llywodraeth o'r dechrau. Pa gymorth newydd y bydd Llywodraeth Cymru yn ei ddarparu i dai cydweithredol? Ac a wnaiff y Llywodraeth gefnogi model Efrog Newydd o droi adeiladau mawr, gwag yn dai cydweithredol?

Diolch, Mike. I share in your enthusiasm for co-operative housing. The Welsh Government has never moved away from our support for co-operative housing and community-led housing, and we've been providing funding to Cwmpas to support co-operative housing ever since 2012. And in 2019, we changed our approach to enable Cwmpas to deliver a broader programme of work, supporting all types of community-led housing, and that allows for local communities to decide on the best form of community-led housing for their area, and that could easily include conversion of a large building. Cwmpas’s Communities Creating Homes programme, since the 2019 change, has been jointly funded by the Welsh Government and the Nationwide Foundation, and it offers support for all community-led housing, with a focus on embedding co-operative principles. More recently, I'm really encouraged by the funding application from Gŵyr Community Land Trust to the land and buildings development fund, and I'm really looking forward to seeing how the project develops. The project, I hope, will demonstrate proof of concept for use of the land and buildings development fund as capital funding for a community-led project, and therefore provide a direct funding route for community-led housing, in addition to all the existing routes through our social housing grant with registered social landlord partners. And that's really close by your constituency, Mike, in the constituency of our colleague Rebecca Evans, and I'm sure they'd welcome a visit by you.

Diolch yn fawr, Mike. Rwy'n rhannu eich brwdfrydedd ynglŷn â thai cydweithredol. Nid yw Llywodraeth Cymru erioed wedi rhoi'r gorau i gefnogi tai cydweithredol a thai dan arweiniad y gymuned, ac rydym wedi bod yn darparu cyllid i Cwmpas i gefnogi tai cydweithredol ers 2012. Ac yn 2019, fe wnaethom newid ein dull gweithredu i alluogi Cwmpas i ddarparu rhaglen ehangach o waith, gan gefnogi pob math o dai dan arweiniad y gymuned, ac mae hynny'n caniatáu i gymunedau lleol benderfynu ar y math gorau o dai dan arweiniad y gymuned ar gyfer eu hardal, a gallai hynny'n hawdd gynnwys addasu adeiladau mawr. Ers y newid yn 2019, mae rhaglen Cymunedau'n Creu Cartrefi Cwmpas wedi'i hariannu ar y cyd gan Lywodraeth Cymru a Sefydliad Nationwide, ac mae'n cynnig cefnogaeth i'r holl dai dan arweiniad y gymuned, gyda ffocws ar ymgorffori egwyddorion cydweithredol. Yn fwy diweddar, mae wedi bod yn galonogol gweld y cais am gyllid gan Ymddiriedolaeth Tir Cymunedol Gŵyr i'r gronfa datblygu tir ac adeiladau, ac rwy'n edrych ymlaen yn fawr at weld sut mae'r prosiect yn datblygu. Bydd y prosiect, gobeithio, yn dangos prawf o gysyniad ar gyfer defnyddio'r gronfa datblygu tir ac adeiladau fel cyllid cyfalaf ar gyfer prosiect dan arweiniad y gymuned, ac felly'n darparu llwybr cyllido uniongyrchol ar gyfer tai dan arweiniad y gymuned, yn ogystal â'r holl lwybrau presennol drwy ein grant tai cymdeithasol gyda phartneriaid landlordiaid cymdeithasol cofrestredig. Ac mae hynny'n agos iawn at eich etholaeth, Mike, yn etholaeth ein cyd-Aelod Rebecca Evans, ac rwy'n siŵr y byddent yn croesawu ymweliad gennych chi.

We all know the real issue surrounding the housing supply in Wales—it's mainly the lack of it. So, it's a shame that councils in South Wales West are continuing to fail to meet housing targets consistently. In the January to March quarter of this year, under Swansea council's watch, just 57 new dwellings were completed. But it gets worse. In Bridgend, it was 23, and in Neath Porth Talbot, only 15. How can Welsh Government and local councils possibly be trusted to support social and co-operative housing when they can't even get the basics right? The law of supply and demand applies equally to housing. We need constructive solutions to reform the planning system and build the beautiful low-carbon homes of the future. Current red tape and complex bureaucracy means the deck is stacked in favour of the big players, shutting out smaller, local companies who should have a huge part to play in the solution. So, Minister, how is the Welsh Government working to improve its record on housing, work with councils to reform the system, and get on with actually building the houses for the future generations will need?

Rydym i gyd yn gwybod beth yw'r broblem go iawn gyda'r cyflenwad tai yng Nghymru—y diffyg cyflenwad, yn bennaf. Felly, mae'n drueni fod cynghorau yng Ngorllewin De Cymru yn parhau i fethu cyrraedd targedau tai yn gyson. Yn ystod y chwarter rhwng mis Ionawr a mis Mawrth eleni, o dan gyngor Abertawe, 57 yn unig o anheddau newydd a gwblhawyd. Ond mae gwaeth i ddod. Ym Mhen-y-bont ar Ogwr, y ffigur oedd 23, a dim ond 15 yng Nghastell-nedd Porth Talbot. Sut yn y byd y gellir ymddiried yn Llywodraeth Cymru a chynghorau lleol i gefnogi tai cymdeithasol a thai cydweithredol pan na allant hyd yn oed gael y pethau sylfaenol yn iawn? Mae'r rheol cyflenwad a galw yr un mor berthnasol i dai. Mae angen atebion adeiladol arnom i ddiwygio'r system gynllunio ac adeiladu cartrefi carbon isel hardd y dyfodol. Mae tâp coch a'r fiwrocratiaeth gymhleth gyfredol yn golygu bod gan y chwaraewyr mawr fantais, gan gau cwmnïau lleol llai o faint allan, pan ddylai fod ganddynt ran enfawr i'w chwarae yn yr ateb. Felly, Weinidog, sut mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn gweithio i wella ei chyflawniad mewn perthynas â thai, gweithio gyda chynghorau i ddiwygio'r system, a bwrw ati i adeiladu'r tai y bydd cenedlaethau'r dyfodol eu hangen?

Well, Llywydd, once again I regret the fact that the Tories only ever want to run down people who are doing their very best in very difficult circumstances, caused almost entirely by the Conservative Party at the UK level, having made it near impossible to get both financing and funding for homes anywhere. The Westminster Government could also assist us by helping us get our vacant land tax through, which they've consistently blocked, which would help us unlock the land that is essential for this kind of community housing to be built. The Conservative Member perhaps hasn't been in the party long enough to remember that it was his Government that prevented councils from building houses for nearly 45 years, and has only very recently, actually, released the caps on the housing revenue account in local authorities that would allow them to build the houses in the first place. I think our councils are doing a splendid job, alongside our registered social landlords and, indeed, the co-operative and community sector, to get house building going, and I need no lessons off him on how to build low-carbon, decent homes and plan for them accordingly.

Wel, Lywydd, unwaith eto rwy'n gresynu at y ffaith nad yw'r Torïaid ond eisiau lladd ar bobl sy'n gwneud eu gorau glas mewn amgylchiadau anodd iawn, a achoswyd bron yn gyfan gwbl gan y Blaid Geidwadol ar lefel y DU, ar ôl iddynt ei gwneud bron iawn yn amhosibl i gael cyllid ar gyfer cartrefi yn unrhyw le. Gallai Llywodraeth San Steffan ein cynorthwyo hefyd drwy ein helpu i gael ein treth ar dir gwag drwodd, treth y maent wedi'i blocio'n gyson, a fyddai'n ein helpu i ddatgloi'r tir sy'n hanfodol er mwyn adeiladu'r math hwn o dai cymunedol. Efallai nad yw'r Aelod Ceidwadol wedi bod yn y blaid yn ddigon hir i gofio mai ei Lywodraeth ef a ataliodd gynghorau rhag adeiladu tai am bron i 45 mlynedd, a dim ond yn ddiweddar iawn y gwnaethant ryddhau'r capiau ar y cyfrif refeniw tai mewn awdurdodau lleol a fyddai'n caniatáu iddynt adeiladu'r tai yn y lle cyntaf. Rwy'n credu bod ein cynghorau yn gwneud gwaith gwych, ochr yn ochr â'n landlordiaid cymdeithasol cofrestredig, ac yn wir, y sector cydweithredol a chymunedol, i fwrw ati i adeiladu tai, ac nid wyf angen unrhyw wersi ganddo ef ar sut i adeiladu cartrefi carbon isel, gweddus a sut i gynllunio ar eu cyfer yn unol â hynny.

14:10
Tai Cymdeithasol
Social Housing

7. Sut y bydd Llywodraeth Cymru yn hyrwyddo ymhellach adeiladu tai cymdeithasol? OQ60150

7. How will the Welsh Government further promote the building of social housing? OQ60150

We remain committed to delivering our 20,000 social homes for rent this Government term, underpinned by record levels of funding—almost £1.2 billion over the first four years of this Senedd term. In Flintshire, £12.6 million was spent in 2022-23 and an allocation of £13.3 million for 2023-24 is providing those much-needed homes.

Rydym yn parhau i fod yn ymrwymedig i ddarparu ein 20,000 o gartrefi cymdeithasol i'w rhentu yn ystod tymor y Senedd hon, cynllun sydd wedi'i ategu gan y lefelau uchaf erioed o gyllid—bron i £1.2 biliwn dros y pedair blynedd gyntaf o dymor y Senedd hon. Yn sir y Fflint, gwariwyd £12.6 miliwn yn 2022-23 ac mae dyraniad o £13.3 miliwn ar gyfer 2023-24 yn darparu'r cartrefi mawr eu hangen hynny.

Can I thank the Minister for her answer and the commitment towards promoting social housing? The area I grew up in was mainly council housing, and, if I look back now, I understand the difference good quality, secure and affordable housing made to the life choices and life chances of residents. Minister, I was pleased to see yesterday the news that we are once again improving housing standards, and I congratulate you on this bold decision. We have to be ambitious about the building of more social housing; too many people are on waiting lists in inappropriate, insecure housing. We need to give those families the security that social housing offers. Minister, the planning system can be inconsistent when it comes to social housing applications. What can you do to ensure that social housing applications are not treated harshly and refused for reasons that have no real planning merit?

A gaf fi ddiolch i'r Gweinidog am ei hateb a'i hymrwymiad tuag at hyrwyddo tai cymdeithasol? Tai cyngor yn bennaf oedd i'w cael yn yr ardal y cefais fy magu ynddi, ac os edrychaf yn ôl nawr, rwy'n deall y gwahaniaeth roedd tai diogel a fforddiadwy o ansawdd da yn ei wneud i ddewisiadau bywyd a chyfleoedd bywyd preswylwyr. Weinidog, roeddwn yn falch o weld y newyddion ddoe ein bod unwaith eto yn gwella safonau tai, ac rwy'n eich llongyfarch ar y penderfyniad beiddgar hwn. Rhaid inni fod yn uchelgeisiol ynglŷn ag adeiladu mwy o dai cymdeithasol; mae gormod o bobl ar restrau aros mewn tai amhriodol, ansicr. Mae angen inni ddarparu'r sicrwydd y mae tai cymdeithasol yn ei gynnig i'r teuluoedd hynny. Weinidog, gall y system gynllunio fod yn anghyson mewn perthynas â cheisiadau tai cymdeithasol. Beth y gallwch chi ei wneud i sicrhau nad yw ceisiadau tai cymdeithasol yn cael eu trin yn llym ac yn cael eu gwrthod am resymau nad oes iddynt unrhyw rinwedd cynllunio gwirioneddol?

We've been very clear of the positive impact that good quality, affordable homes that will meet the needs of individuals now and in the future can have. We know that investing in social housing reduces poverty, improves health and helps drive economic growth—that's why we are seeking to increase the provision by 20,000, and we've set out record levels of funding to achieve this, as I've just already said, allocating £1.2 billion over the first four years of this Senedd term. We also recognise the importance of providing social homes through the planning system, and our national planning policy, 'Planning Policy Wales', is very clear about the Welsh Government's policies. The need for social housing is clearly articulated in 'Future Wales', our national plan. We expect all local authorities to prepare a local development plan that includes policies on the delivery of social housing, and we require planning decisions to be taken in line with those plans. A community's need for social housing is one of the most important considerations of the LDP. We continue to support and challenge local authorities for the preparation of their LDP, and we continue to ensure that social housing issues are adequately addressed therein. 

Rydym wedi bod yn glir iawn am yr effaith gadarnhaol y gall cartrefi fforddiadwy o ansawdd da ei chael wrth ddiwallu anghenion unigolion nawr ac yn y dyfodol. Gwyddom fod buddsoddi mewn tai cymdeithasol yn lleihau tlodi, yn gwella iechyd ac yn helpu i sbarduno twf economaidd—dyna pam ein bod yn ceisio cynyddu'r ddarpariaeth o 20,000, ac rydym wedi nodi'r lefelau uchaf erioed o gyllid i gyflawni hyn, fel rwyf newydd ei ddweud, gan ddyrannu £1.2 biliwn dros y pedair blynedd gyntaf o dymor y Senedd hon. Rydym hefyd yn cydnabod pwysigrwydd darparu cartrefi cymdeithasol drwy'r system gynllunio, ac mae ein polisi cynllunio cenedlaethol, 'Polisi Cynllunio Cymru', yn glir iawn ynglŷn â pholisïau Llywodraeth Cymru. Mae'r angen am dai cymdeithasol yn cael ei fynegi'n glir yn 'Dyfodol Cymru', ein cynllun cenedlaethol. Rydym yn disgwyl i bob awdurdod lleol baratoi cynllun datblygu lleol sy'n cynnwys polisïau ar ddarparu tai cymdeithasol, ac rydym yn ei gwneud yn ofynnol i benderfyniadau cynllunio gael eu gwneud yn unol â'r cynlluniau hynny. Mae angen cymuned am dai cymdeithasol yn un o ystyriaethau pwysicaf y cynllun datblygu lleol. Rydym yn parhau i gefnogi a herio awdurdodau lleol wrth iddynt baratoi eu cynlluniau datblygu lleol, ac rydym yn parhau i sicrhau bod materion tai cymdeithasol yn cael sylw digonol ynddynt. 

Minister, not only do we have to encourage the building of social housing as a matter of some urgency, but we also have to ensure that the housing provided is fit for the future. Minister, whilst I note the introduction of the new Welsh housing quality standard, I question whether it goes far enough. What consideration have you given to ensuring that all future housing is built to passive house standards in order to ensure low or no energy bills, as well as ensuring that every home is readily adaptable to meet future mobility needs for tenants?

Weinidog, nid yn unig y mae'n rhaid inni annog adeiladu tai cymdeithasol fel mater o frys, mae'n rhaid inni sicrhau hefyd fod y tai a ddarperir yn addas ar gyfer y dyfodol. Weinidog, er fy mod yn nodi cyflwyno safon ansawdd tai newydd Cymru, rwy'n cwestiynu a yw'n mynd yn ddigon pell. Pa ystyriaeth rydych chi wedi'i rhoi i sicrhau bod yr holl dai yn y dyfodol yn cael eu hadeiladu i safon tŷ ynni goddefol er mwyn sicrhau biliau ynni isel, neu ddim biliau ynni o gwbl, yn ogystal â sicrhau bod modd addasu pob cartref yn hawdd i ddiwallu anghenion symudedd tenantiaid yn y dyfodol?

Thank you. We already insist that all social housing is built to low-carbon standards. There are three different standards, passive house is one of them, but low-carbon footprints for all of the standards that we accept for new build. We've also done that in the private sector by changing building regulations. Although that's not the subject of this, we do do it across all tenures. I absolutely agree with the Member that houses should be built that are fit for the future, and the Welsh Government is entirely committed to doing both that for the new build, and, indeed, as you heard only yesterday in my statement, bringing existing housing up to the same standard.

Diolch. Rydym eisoes yn mynnu bod pob tŷ cymdeithasol yn cael ei adeiladu i fodloni safonau carbon isel. Ceir tair safon wahanol, mae tŷ ynni goddefol yn un ohonynt, ond mae yna ôl traed carbon isel ar gyfer yr holl safonau a dderbyniwn ar gyfer adeiladau newydd. Rydym hefyd wedi gwneud hynny yn y sector preifat drwy newid rheoliadau adeiladu. Er nad dyna yw pwnc y cwestiwn, rydym yn gwneud hynny ar draws pob deiliadaeth. Rwy'n cytuno'n llwyr â'r Aelod y dylid adeiladu tai sy'n addas ar gyfer y dyfodol, ac mae Llywodraeth Cymru wedi ymrwymo'n llwyr i wneud hynny gydag adeiladau newydd, ac yn wir, fel y clywsoch ddoe ddiwethaf yn fy natganiad, wrth godi tai sy'n bodoli'n barod i'r un safon.

Pwll Glo Ffos-y-frân
Ffos-y-frân Mine

8. A wnaiff y Gweinidog roi'r wybodaeth ddiweddaraf am y sefyllfa ym mhwll glo Ffos-y-frân ym Merthyr? OQ60148

8. Will the Minister provide an update on the situation at Ffos-y-frân mine in Merthyr? OQ60148

Yes. Following service of an enforcement notice on the site operator by Merthyr Tydfil County Borough Council, the company has provided a unilateral undertaking to the council that it will stop operations at the site by 30 November.

Gwnaf. Yn dilyn penderfyniad Cyngor Bwrdeistref Sirol Merthyr Tudful i gyflwyno hysbysiad gorfodi i weithredwr y safle, mae'r cwmni wedi darparu ymrwymiad unochrog i'r cyngor y bydd yn atal gweithrediadau ar y safle erbyn 30 Tachwedd.

Thank you, Minister. For over a year now, the operators at Ffos-y-frân coal mine have been extracting coal illegally, against the decision of the local authority and in direct contravention of planning laws. I've raised in this Chamber before that because of how little money—around £15 million—has been set aside by the mining company to restore the land, we are facing the very real prospect of there being a shortfall of over £100 million when it comes to cleaning up that site when they finally leave. Now, I realise that there's an ongoing legal case, but I'd like the Government, please, to commit to a swift public inquiry after that case to look into how the mining company was allowed to set so little money aside for restoration. The fact that so little money is set aside has fostered the likelihood that the site could be abandoned, with the costs for restoring it being left to the public purse. So, could you give a guarantee, please, to the people of Merthyr Tydfil that the original restoration plan that was promised to them will be completed, instead of a cutback version that will only make the site safe and ensure it doesn't fill with water, because our Valleys really do deserve better than that? And would you commit, Minister, to a swift public inquiry into how this situation was ever allowed to develop?

Diolch yn fawr, Weinidog. Ers dros flwyddyn bellach, mae'r gweithredwyr ym mhwll glo Ffos-y-frân wedi bod yn echdynnu glo yn anghyfreithlon, yn erbyn penderfyniad yr awdurdod lleol ac yn gwbl groes i gyfreithiau cynllunio. Yn y gorffennol, rwyf wedi crybwyll yn y Siambr hon, oherwydd cyn lleied o arian—tua £15 miliwn—sydd wedi'i neilltuo gan y cwmni mwyngloddio i adfer y tir, rydym yn wynebu'r posibilrwydd real iawn y bydd diffyg o dros £100 miliwn ar gyfer glanhau'r safle hwnnw pan fyddant yn gadael yn y pen draw. Nawr, rwy'n sylweddoli bod yna achos cyfreithiol ar y gweill, ond hoffwn i'r Llywodraeth, os gwelwch yn dda, ymrwymo i ymchwiliad cyhoeddus cyflym ar ôl yr achos hwnnw i edrych ar sut y caniatawyd i'r cwmni mwyngloddio osod cyn lleied o arian o'r neilltu ar gyfer gwaith adfer. Mae'r ffaith bod cyn lleied o arian wedi'i neilltuo wedi meithrin y tebygolrwydd y bydd y safle yn cael ei adael i fynd, gyda'r costau ar gyfer gwaith adfer yn dod o'r pwrs cyhoeddus. Felly, a allech chi roi sicrwydd i bobl Merthyr Tudful, os gwelwch yn dda, y bydd y cynllun adfer gwreiddiol a addawyd iddynt yn cael ei gwblhau, yn hytrach na fersiwn wedi'i chwtogi na fydd ond yn gwneud y safle'n ddiogel ac yn sicrhau nad yw'n llenwi â dŵr, oherwydd mae ein Cymoedd yn haeddu gwell na hynny? Ac a wnewch chi ymrwymo, Weinidog, i ymchwiliad cyhoeddus cyflym i ganfod sut y caniatawyd i'r sefyllfa hon ddatblygu yn y lle cyntaf?

14:15

I'm afraid, Delyth, I'm really constrained as to what I can and can't say, I'm afraid, still, because despite the unilateral undertaking I mentioned, there is still a live appeal against the enforcement notice, and the Welsh Ministers have a duty to hear that appeal. So, I'm currently giving some consideration to that. I can say that we are supporting the council to work together with NRW and the Coal Authority, to consider the contingency arrangements that are in place and to consider what would happen if the mine were to be abandoned. Restoration, however, remains the responsibility of the mine operator, who's still in place, and I'm very sorry, but I'm very constrained as to what else I can say.

Mae arnaf ofn fy mod yn gyfyngedig iawn, Delyth, o ran yr hyn y gallaf ac na allaf ei ddweud, oherwydd er gwaethaf yr ymrwymiad unochrog a grybwyllais, mae yna apêl fyw o hyd yn erbyn yr hysbysiad gorfodi, ac mae dyletswydd ar Weinidogion Cymru i wrando ar yr apêl honno. Felly, rwy'n ystyried hynny ar hyn o bryd. Gallaf ddweud ein bod yn cefnogi'r cyngor i gydweithio ag CNC a'r Awdurdod Glo i ystyried y trefniadau wrth gefn sydd ar waith ac i ystyried beth fyddai'n digwydd pe bai'r pwll yn cael ei adael i fynd. Fodd bynnag, cyfrifoldeb gweithredwr y gwaith glo, sy'n dal i fod yno, yw'r gwaith adfer, ac mae'n ddrwg iawn gennyf, ond rwy'n gyfyngedig iawn o ran beth arall y gallaf ei ddweud.

Cartrefi Gwag Hirdymor
Long-term Empty Homes

9. Pa gynnydd sy'n cael ei wneud i adfer a gwerthu'r 22,000 a mwy o gartrefi gwag hirdymor yng Nghymru i leddfu'r argyfwng tai? OQ60151

9. What progress is being made to restore and sell the more than 22,000 long-term empty homes in Wales to alleviate the housing crisis? OQ60151

We are providing a range of measures and funding packages to reduce the number of long-term empty homes in Wales, and in doing so, we are increasing the supply of homes across all tenures.

Rydym yn darparu ystod o fesurau a phecynnau cyllido i leihau nifer y cartrefi gwag hirdymor yng Nghymru, ac wrth wneud hynny, rydym yn cynyddu'r cyflenwad o gartrefi ar draws pob deiliadaeth.

Diolch, Weinidog. I was very pleased to read, as you know, the homeless White Paper, but whilst that is being slowly implemented, people are still, as you well know, struggling to find accommodation, and in the worst cases, dying on the streets. Cardiff alone has seen an increase of 120 per cent in rough-sleeping. It's such a shame, therefore, that in Cardiff alone, there are 3,288 empty homes, according to council tax data from this year, with 1,897 of those being exempt completely from council tax. Will the Minister investigate reusing these old properties for housing, as a green alternative to building new ones? Diolch yn fawr.

Diolch, Weinidog. Roeddwn yn falch iawn o ddarllen y Papur Gwyn ar ddigartrefedd fel y gwyddoch, ond er bod hwnnw'n cael ei weithredu'n araf, mae pobl yn dal i'w chael hi'n anodd dod o hyd i lety, fel y gwyddoch yn iawn, ac yn yr achosion gwaethaf, yn marw ar y strydoedd. Mae Caerdydd wedi gweld cynnydd o 120 y cant yn y niferoedd sy'n cysgu allan. Mae'n gymaint o drueni, felly, fod 3,288 o gartrefi gwag yng Nghaerdydd yn unig, yn ôl data'r dreth gyngor eleni, gyda 1,897 o'r rheini wedi'u heithrio'n llwyr rhag treth gyngor. A wnaiff y Gweinidog ymchwilio i ailddefnyddio'r hen eiddo hyn fel tai, fel dewis arall gwyrdd yn lle adeiladu rhai newydd? Diolch yn fawr.

Well, yes, absolutely. We agree that empty homes are a blight and can be a nuisance in communities. They attract anti-social behaviour, pose environmental health problems, and contribute to a general decline in the neighbourhoods. But, as you rightly say, Rhys, they are a wasted resource, and that's particularly frustrating, given the current housing supply. We have given local authorities powers to charge council tax premiums of up to 300 per cent on long-term empty dwellings, as well as on second homes, and we've put £50 million investment over three years to bring 2,000 long-term empty properties back into use, to accelerate our work to bring empty properties back into use and complement our existing schemes.

That does include nearly £43 million of recyclable funding that we've given local authorities to provide interest-free property loans for landlords and home owners for home improvements or to renovate empty properties and bring them back into use. And it also includes turning commercial properties—empty commercial properties—into houses or flats, with landlords able to increase loans of up to £35,000 per unit or £250,000 per application. The scheme's being used to bring back around 1,800 units into use from empty properties across Wales, and supported improvements to a further 1,600 homes that were in danger of becoming empty, because they were in such poor condition. So, a total of 3,400 units have been brought back into use so far under the scheme. We've also got 330 town-centre residential units being brought back into use—so, those are the ones above the shops that are often empty—and we're bringing those back into use through our Transforming Towns loan scheme. I was able to go to Newport very recently and have a look at the really excellent scheme around Newport market there that's brought some of those houses back into use.

My only remark on the numbers that you quoted is that it's quite difficult to differentiate houses for sale from houses that are long-term empty from those numbers. So, some of the council tax exemptions, for example, will be because the house is on the market. So, we are looking to see what we can do to better improve the data on what is actually a long-term empty home—or an abandoned home, especially—or one that's actually on the market for sale and might have been on the market for some time.

Wel, ie, yn hollol. Rydym yn cytuno bod cartrefi gwag yn bla ac yn gallu bod yn niwsans mewn cymunedau. Maent yn denu ymddygiad gwrthgymdeithasol, yn achosi problemau iechyd amgylcheddol, ac yn cyfrannu at ddirywiad cyffredinol yn y cymdogaethau. Ond fel rydych yn ei ddweud yn gywir, Rhys, maent yn adnoddau gwastraffus, ac mae hynny'n arbennig o rwystredig, o ystyried y cyflenwad tai presennol. Rydym wedi rhoi pwerau i awdurdodau lleol godi premiymau'r dreth gyngor o hyd at 300 y cant ar anheddau gwag hirdymor, yn ogystal ag ar ail gartrefi, ac rydym wedi buddsoddi £50 miliwn dros dair blynedd i ddod â 2,000 eiddo gwag hirdymor yn ôl i ddefnydd, i gyflymu ein gwaith i ddod ag eiddo gwag yn ôl i ddefnydd ac ategu ein cynlluniau presennol.

Mae hynny'n cynnwys bron i £43 miliwn o gyllid ailgylchadwy a roddwyd gennym i awdurdodau lleol i ddarparu benthyciadau eiddo di-log i landlordiaid a pherchnogion tai ar gyfer gwella cartrefi neu adnewyddu eiddo gwag i'w defnyddio unwaith eto. Ac mae hefyd yn cynnwys troi eiddo masnachol—eiddo masnachol gwag—yn dai neu fflatiau, gyda landlordiaid yn gallu cynyddu benthyciadau o hyd at £35,000 yr uned neu £250,000 fesul cais. Mae'r cynllun yn cael ei ddefnyddio i greu oddeutu 1,800 uned drwy ddod ag eiddo gwag yn ôl i ddefnydd ledled Cymru, ac mae wedi cefnogi gwelliannau i 1,600 o gartrefi eraill a oedd mewn perygl o gael eu gadael yn wag, oherwydd eu bod mewn cyflwr mor wael. Felly, mae cyfanswm o 3,400 uned wedi dod yn ôl i ddefnydd o dan y cynllun hyd yma. Mae gennym hefyd 330 o unedau preswyl canol y dref yn cael eu defnyddio unwaith eto—felly, y rhai uwchben y siopau sy'n aml yn wag—ac rydym yn dod â'r rheini yn ôl i ddefnydd drwy ein cynllun benthyca Trawsnewid Trefi. Euthum i Gasnewydd yn ddiweddar iawn a chael golwg ar y cynllun ardderchog o amgylch marchnad Casnewydd sydd wedi dod â rhai o'r tai hynny yn ôl i ddefnydd.

Fy unig sylw ar y niferoedd a ddyfynnwyd gennych yw ei bod yn eithaf anodd gwahaniaethu rhwng tai sydd ar werth a thai sy'n wag yn hirdymor o'r ffigurau hynny. Felly, bydd rhai o'r eithriadau treth gyngor, er enghraifft, yn bodoli oherwydd bod y tŷ ar y farchnad. Felly, rydym yn edrych i weld beth y gallwn ni ei wneud i wella'r data ar beth sy'n gartref sy'n wag yn hirdymor mewn gwirionedd—neu gartref sydd wedi ei adael i fynd, yn enwedig—neu un sydd ar werth ar y farchnad ac a allai fod wedi bod ar y farchnad ers peth amser.

Cwestiwn 10, yn olaf, Huw Irranca-Davies.

Question 10, finally, Huw Irranca-Davies.

Ffordd Osgoi Llanharan
Llanharan Bypass

10. A wnaiff y Gweinidog ystyried cynigion newydd ac amgen yn unol â meini prawf yr adolygiad ffyrdd, yn dilyn y penderfyniad i atal cynnydd ar brosiect ffordd osgoi gwreiddiol Llanharan? OQ60137

10. Will the Minister consider new and alternative proposals in line with the roads review criteria, following the decision to halt progress on the original Llanharan bypass project? OQ60137

Thank you. Yes, I've awarded £100,000 of the local transport fund to Rhondda Cynon Taf County Borough Council to revisit the business case for the Llanharan bypass, in line with our response to the roads review recommendations, and I will consider the outcome of this work.

Diolch. Ie, rwyf wedi dyfarnu £100,000 o'r gronfa drafnidiaeth leol i Gyngor Bwrdeistref Sirol Rhondda Cynon Taf i ailedrych ar yr achos busnes dros ffordd osgoi Llanharan, yn unol â'n hymateb i argymhellion yr adolygiad ffyrdd, a byddaf yn ystyried canlyniad y gwaith hwn.

I'm delighted to hear that. Can I thank the Minister and his officials and others who joined me, Andrew Morgan, the leader of Rhondda Cynon Taf, earlier this year in light of the original decision to halt the roads review and the impact on the original Llanharan bypass, and to look at alternative ways forward? And those alternative ways forward could include bus priority measures, could include enhancement of the existing proposals around active travel, could well include, in negotiation with local partners on the ground, enhancement not just of park-and-ride facilities at the train station, but cycle-and-ride facilities as well. But we do need an egress and access point to that development in Llanilid in order to actually recognise its potential, realise its potential as a significant infrastructure development. It isn't only housing; there is a new school there, and other things that are dependent on this. So, I'd welcome another opportunity, along with Andrew Morgan and local councillors, to discuss this, and see if we can put something that does fit the roads review criteria, does reduce demand, congestion and air pollution, but provides a properly coherent way to devise proper travel options for everybody in those communities.

Rwy'n falch iawn o glywed hynny. A gaf fi ddiolch i'r Gweinidog a'i swyddogion ac eraill a ymunodd â mi ac Andrew Morgan, arweinydd Rhondda Cynon Taf, yn gynharach eleni yng ngoleuni'r penderfyniad gwreiddiol i atal yr adolygiad ffyrdd a'r effaith ar ffordd osgoi wreiddiol Llanharan, ac i edrych ar ffyrdd amgen ymlaen? A gallai'r ffyrdd amgen hynny ymlaen gynnwys mesurau blaenoriaeth bysiau, gallai gynnwys gwella'r cynigion presennol ynghylch teithio llesol, gallai gynnwys gwella, drwy drafod gyda phartneriaid lleol ar lawr gwlad, nid yn unig y cyfleusterau parcio a theithio yn yr orsaf drenau ond cyfleusterau beicio a theithio hefyd. Ond rydym angen pwynt i mewn ac allan i'r datblygiad hwnnw yn Llanilid er mwyn cydnabod ei botensial mewn gwirionedd, a gwireddu ei botensial fel datblygiad seilwaith arwyddocaol. Mae'n fwy na thai; mae yna ysgol newydd yno, a phethau eraill sy'n ddibynnol ar hyn. Felly, buaswn yn croesawu cyfle arall, gydag Andrew Morgan a chynghorwyr lleol, i drafod hyn, a gweld a allwn roi rhywbeth ar waith sy'n cyd-fynd â meini prawf yr adolygiad ffyrdd, sy'n lleihau'r galw, tagfeydd a llygredd aer, ond sy'n darparu ffordd gydlynol o ddyfeisio opsiynau teithio priodol i bawb yn y cymunedau hynny.

14:20

Thank you, and the Member makes a good case to scotch the lie that we have banned new roads, because that clearly isn't the policy or the case from our new road-building tests. And in the case of the scheme in his constituency, we are working with the local authorities—and he's mentioned we had a very constructive meeting—and then there's now a challenge for us all to look for more creative ways of dealing with congestion and transport problems without the default approach we've had so many times in the past, simply to build a large road, which then quickly refills with traffic and adds to our carbon emissions. So, there is now an opportunity for Transport for Wales to work creatively with the local authority and the regional teams to look at the range of options of different modes of bus, active travel, car sharing, as well as providing an access road, as the Member mentioned. And I'd be very keen to continue a conversation with him to help us to find a way through this challenge.

Diolch, ac mae'r Aelod yn gwneud achos da i atal y celwydd ein bod wedi gwahardd ffyrdd newydd, oherwydd yn amlwg nid dyna yw'r polisi ac nid dyna sy'n digwydd o'n profion adeiladu ffyrdd newydd. Ac yn achos y cynllun yn ei etholaeth, rydym yn gweithio gyda'r awdurdodau lleol—ac mae wedi sôn ein bod wedi cael cyfarfod adeiladol iawn—a bellach mae yna her i ni i gyd chwilio am ffyrdd mwy creadigol o ymdrin â thagfeydd a phroblemau trafnidiaeth gan hepgor y dull diofyn a welsom gymaint o weithiau yn y gorffennol, sef adeiladu ffordd fawr, sydd wedyn yn ail-lenwi â thraffig yn gyflym ac yn ychwanegu at ein hallyriadau carbon. Felly, mae yna gyfle nawr i Trafnidiaeth Cymru weithio'n greadigol gyda'r awdurdod lleol a'r timau rhanbarthol i edrych ar yr ystod o wahanol ddulliau teithio, bysiau, teithio llesol, rhannu ceir, yn ogystal â darparu ffordd fynediad, fel y soniodd yr Aelod. Ac rwy'n awyddus iawn i barhau sgwrs gydag ef i'n helpu i ddod o hyd i ffordd drwy'r her hon.

Diolch i'r Dirprwy Weinidog a'r Gweinidog Newid Hinsawdd. 

I thank the Deputy Minister and the Minister for Climate Change.

2. Cwestiynau i Weinidog y Gymraeg ac Addysg
2. Questions to the Minister for Education and the Welsh Language

Y cwestiynau nesaf fydd y cwestiynau i Weinidog y Gymraeg ac Addysg. Y cwestiwn cyntaf gan Rhys ab Owen.

The next set of questions will be to the Minister for Education and the Welsh Language. The first question is from Rhys ab Owen.

Toriadau i'r Gyllideb
Budget Cuts

1. Pa asesiad y mae'r Gweinidog wedi'i wneud o effaith y toriad o £75 miliwn i gyllideb ei adran ar dargedau addysgol y Llywodraeth a'i thargedau o ran y Gymraeg? OQ60152

1. What assessment has the Minister made of the impact of the £75 million cut to his department’s budget on the Government’s educational and Welsh-language targets? OQ60152

Rwyf wedi diogelu gwasanaethau rheng flaen mewn ysgolion, colegau a phrifysgolion. Mae gostyngiadau refeniw wedi cael eu nodi drwy adolygu cyllidebau seiliedig ar alw a chyllid heb ei ymrwymo ar draws fy mhortffolio. Er mwyn cyfyngu ar yr effaith ar wasanaethau, rwyf wedi penderfynu gostwng ar wariant drwy ailflaenoriaethu neu ohirio gweithgarwch, yn hytrach na thorri rhaglenni neu eu dwyn i ben.

I have protected front-line services in schools, colleges and universities, and revenue reductions have been identified through a review of demand-led budgets and uncommitted funding across my portfolio. To reduce the impact on services, I have made decisions to reduce spending by reprioritising or deferring activity, rather than cutting or ending programmes.

Diolch yn fawr, Gweinidog. Mae'r toriadau dwfn i'r gyllideb yn dangos y broblem fawr o ddiffyg rheolaeth a'r strwythur sydd gyda'r lle hwn dros y gyllideb. Rŷm ni'n orddibynnol ar benderfyniadau ar waelod yr M4, ond mater arall yw hynny.

Mae sawl adran yn y lle hwn wedi dioddef, ond mae'ch adran chi wedi cael ei tharo yn arbennig o wael. O gymharu â'ch £75 miliwn chi, mae toriadau'r adran economi yn £28 miliwn, llywodraeth leol yn £29 miliwn, ac amaeth yn £17 miliwn. Ydy prosiectau a dyheadau fel y miliwn o siaradwyr Cymraeg erbyn 2050 o hyd yn gynaliadwy yn wyneb y fath doriadau o San Steffan? Diolch yn fawr.

Thank you very much, Minister. These deep cuts to the budget do show the great problem in the lack of control and structure that this place has over the budget. We are over-reliant on decisions taken at the other end of the M4, but that's another issue.

There are many departments in this place that have suffered, but yours has been hit particularly hard. Compared to your £75 million, the economy department's cuts are £28 million, local government £29 million, and agriculture £17 million. Are projects and aspirations such as the million Welsh speakers by 2050 still sustainable in light of such cuts from Westminster? Thank you.

Rwy'n diolch i'r Aelod am gydnabod y cyd-destun o ran y pwysau ar ein gwariant ni a'r rhesymau am hynny, ac mi fyddwn i'n cytuno â'i ddadansoddiad e o'r rhesymau. O ran y toriadau, mae'r ffigur o fy adran i, wrth gwrs, yn uwch mewn termau absoliwt oherwydd bod y gyllideb yn llawer uwch mewn termau absoliwt hefyd, ond fel canran mae e ychydig yn llai na rhai adrannau eraill. Ac roedd y Cabinet yn hapus i gytuno bod approach gwahanol yn hynny o beth.

Mae'r pwyslais rwyf wedi ceisio ei ddwyn ar y broses annymunol tu hwnt hon yn un lle roeddwn i'n edrych ar lle roedd tanwariant, yn hytrach na mynd i wneud toriadau penodol i'r math o gynlluniau roedd e'n sôn amdanyn nhw. Yn sgil hynny, rwyf yn ffyddiog bod y nod, fel roedd e'n sôn, o filiwn o siaradwyr, fod y cynlluniau sydd gennym ni ar waith sy'n cyfrannu tuag at y nod hynny ddim yn mynd i gael eu heffeithio yn andwyol gan y datganiadau rwyf wedi gorfod eu gwneud y flwyddyn hon.

I thank the Member for acknowledging the context in terms of the pressures on our expenditure and the reasons for that, and I would agree with his analysis with regard to those reasons. In terms of the cuts, the figures from my department, of course, are higher in absolute terms because the budget is far higher in absolute terms too, but as a percentage it's slightly less than some of the other departments. And the Cabinet was content to agree that there was a different approach in that regard.

The emphasis that I have tried to place on this very undesirable process is one where we were looking at where there was underspend, rather than making specific cuts to the kinds of schemes and plans that he was talking about. As a result of that, I am confident that the aim, as he mentioned, of a million Welsh speakers, that the plans that are currently in train towards that aim won't be detrimentally impacted by the statements I've had to make this year. 

14:25

Thank you, Minister, for providing some insight into the impact of the education cuts. However, in relation to the target of free school meals roll-out, I still have some reservations over the specific cuts as a result of the reduction in uptake. We know that many councils were predicting to overspend considerably in order to implement the FSM policy—Flintshire by £0.5 million, Gwynedd by £0.5 million, I believe, and Monmouthshire by circa £300,000, just to name a few—overspends that can be attributed to the rising cost of food, the increase in staffing required, and ongoing infrastructure. Councils have expressly told me that the funding model is not working, and unless this is recognised you are asking them to subsidise the increasing costs to fund your free school meals target. Minister, will you pledge today an absolute commitment to fully fund all costs associated with the roll-out of the free school meals policy?

Diolch, Weinidog, am roi rhywfaint o fewnwelediad i effaith y toriadau addysg. Fodd bynnag, mewn perthynas â'r targed o gyflwyno prydau ysgol am ddim, mae gennyf rai amheuon o hyd am y toriadau penodol o ganlyniad i'r gostyngiad yn y nifer sy'n eu derbyn. Gwyddom fod llawer o gynghorau yn rhagweld gorwariant sylweddol er mwyn gweithredu polisi'r prydau ysgol am ddim—gorwariant o £0.5 miliwn yn sir y Fflint, £0.5 miliwn yng Ngwynedd, rwy'n credu, a thua £300,000 yn sir Fynwy, i enwi rhai yn unig—gorwariant y gellir ei briodoli i gost gynyddol bwyd, y cynnydd yn y staff sydd eu hangen, a seilwaith parhaus. Mae cynghorau wedi dweud wrthyf yn bendant nad yw'r model cyllido yn gweithio, ac os na fydd hyn yn cael ei gydnabod rydych yn gofyn iddynt sybsideiddio costau cynyddol i ariannu eich targed prydau ysgol am ddim. Weinidog, a wnewch chi roi ymrwymiad llwyr heddiw i ariannu'r holl gostau sy'n gysylltiedig â chyflwyno'r polisi prydau ysgol am ddim?

I thank the Member for the question. I know that he and his party do not in fact support this policy at all, but just to give some assurance to those who do support the policy, the funding that has been released, which is £11.5 million from a budget of £70 million, relates to the fact that this is a demand-led grant to local authorities, and despite this reduction there remains sufficient budget to cover the current roll-out plans, which remain on track. This partly reflects our phased approach to the roll-out. So, we've effectively reviewed the demand and uptake of the offer in recent weeks to confirm the level of funding that is now required, and the level of funding that could, if you like, safely be made available. So, the funding model that we have has been built to accommodate increases in demand, and our grant offer commits us to paying claims from local authorities based on the level of uptake experienced rather than that projected—so, even where it’s higher than the figures that have been originally anticipated. So, we’ve allowed provision in the new budget to accommodate growth in that, and the Member will know that we have also committed to undertaking a review of the unit rate per meal, which is associated with the commitment, and we will have the outcome of that analysis later in this year, and I’ll be able to speak to our local government colleagues about the implications of that at that time. But I recognise the point that some local authority leaders have made in relation to that. 

Diolch i'r Aelod am y cwestiwn. Gwn nad yw ef a'i blaid yn cefnogi'r polisi hwn o gwbl, ond er mwyn rhoi sicrwydd i'r rhai sy'n cefnogi'r polisi, mae'r cyllid sydd wedi'i ryddhau, sef £11.5 miliwn o gyllideb o £70 miliwn, yn ymwneud â'r ffaith bod hwn yn grant sy'n seiliedig ar alw i awdurdodau lleol, ac er gwaethaf y gostyngiad, mae digon o gyllideb o hyd ar gyfer y cynlluniau cyflwyno presennol, sy'n parhau i fod ar y trywydd cywir. Mae hyn yn rhannol yn adlewyrchu ein dull o gyflwyno'r cynllun yn raddol. Felly, rydym i bob pwrpas wedi adolygu'r galw a'r nifer sy'n manteisio ar y cynnig yn ystod yr wythnosau diwethaf i gadarnhau lefel y cyllid sydd ei angen nawr, a lefel y cyllid y gellid ei ddarparu yn ddiogel, os mynnwch. Felly, mae'r model cyllido sydd gennym wedi'i adeiladu i ddarparu ar gyfer cynnydd yn y galw, ac mae ein cynnig grant yn ein hymrwymo i dalu hawliadau gan awdurdodau lleol yn seiliedig ar nifer y bobl sy'n derbyn yn hytrach na'r nifer a ragwelwyd—felly, hyd yn oed lle mae'n uwch na'r ffigurau a ragwelwyd yn wreiddiol. Felly, rydym wedi caniatáu darpariaeth yn y gyllideb newydd i ddarparu ar gyfer twf o ran hynny, a bydd yr Aelod yn gwybod ein bod hefyd wedi ymrwymo i gynnal adolygiad o gyfradd yr uned pryd bwyd, sy'n gysylltiedig â'r ymrwymiad, a byddwn yn cael canlyniad y dadansoddiad hwnnw yn ddiweddarach eleni, a byddaf yn gallu siarad â'n cydweithwyr llywodraeth leol am oblygiadau hynny ar yr adeg honno. Ond rwy'n cydnabod y pwynt y mae rhai arweinwyr awdurdodau lleol wedi'i wneud mewn perthynas â hynny. 

Estyn
Estyn

2. A wnaiff y Gweinidog ddatganiad am y canfyddiadau yn Adroddiad Blynyddol 2022-2023 Prif Arolygydd Estyn ? OQ60136

2. Will the Minister make a statement on the findings in Estyn's Chief Inspector's Annual Report 2022-2023? OQ60136

Estyn provides an important annual independent assessment of the quality of education and training provision in Wales. I welcome the chief inspector providing an early insight into inspection findings, as last year. It is important that we take time to reflect on the findings of the summary report.

Mae Estyn yn darparu asesiad annibynnol blynyddol pwysig o ansawdd y ddarpariaeth addysg a hyfforddiant yng Nghymru. Rwy'n croesawu'r ffaith bod y prif arolygydd wedi darparu cipolwg cynnar ar ganfyddiadau arolygu, fel y llynedd. Mae'n bwysig ein bod yn rhoi amser i fyfyrio ar ganfyddiadau'r adroddiad cryno.

Thank you, Minister, for that response. Obviously, in these early findings the chief inspector draws people’s attention to the fact that his inspectors in over two thirds of secondary schools found problems with grammar and punctuation. In your response to the press article that covered the interim report, there was confirmation that the Welsh Government had put in place actions to improve these figures in secondary schools, but didn’t go into what those improvements and what those measures were. Can you enlarge this afternoon on what exactly you have done when such a number of secondary schools—as I said, two thirds—found that in the grammar and punctuation there was need for dramatic improvement? I think urgent action is required in this particular area so that the cohort of learners aren’t missing out the opportunity to excel in school.

Diolch yn fawr am yr ateb hwnnw, Weinidog. Yn amlwg, yn y canfyddiadau cynnar hyn mae'r prif arolygydd yn tynnu sylw pobl at y ffaith bod ei arolygwyr, mewn dros ddwy ran o dair o ysgolion uwchradd, wedi canfod problemau gyda gramadeg ac atalnodi. Yn eich ymateb i'r erthygl yn y wasg a oedd yn ymdrin â'r adroddiad interim, cafwyd cadarnhad fod Llywodraeth Cymru wedi rhoi camau ar waith i wella'r ffigurau hyn mewn ysgolion uwchradd, ond nid oedd yn dweud beth oedd y gwelliannau hynny a beth oedd y mesurau hynny. A allwch chi egluro y prynhawn yma beth yn union rydych chi wedi'i wneud o ystyried bod cymaint o ysgolion uwchradd—fel y dywedais, dwy ran o dair—wedi dweud bod angen gwelliant dramatig mewn perthynas â gramadeg ac atalnodi? Rwy'n credu bod angen gweithredu ar frys yn y maes penodol hwn fel nad yw'r garfan o ddysgwyr yn colli'r cyfle i ragori yn yr ysgol.

The Member is absolutely right about how important literacy broadly, but punctuation and grammar as part of that, is. It's absolutely essential that our young people are able to leave school confident in their literacy and in their use of punctuation and grammar. He'll remember that I made a statement to the Senedd a few months ago on our literacy programme more broadly, and I'll be providing a further update in relation to that in the coming weeks.

But there are interventions at all levels of the school journey, including post 16. He'll know in particular about the advanced skills baccalaureate introduced in September, which will be taken by the majority of 16 to 18-year-old A-level learners, for example, and that includes elements in relation to supporting literacy. But I'll be able to report more fully on that in the coming weeks.

Mae'r Aelod yn llygad ei le ynglŷn â pha mor bwysig yw llythrennedd yn gyffredinol, ac atalnodi a gramadeg fel rhan o hynny. Mae'n gwbl hanfodol fod ein pobl ifanc yn gallu gadael yr ysgol yn hyderus yn eu llythrennedd ac yn eu defnydd o atalnodi a gramadeg. Bydd yn cofio fy mod wedi gwneud datganiad i'r Senedd ychydig fisoedd yn ôl ar ein rhaglen llythrennedd yn ehangach, a byddaf yn darparu diweddariad pellach mewn perthynas â hynny yn ystod yr wythnosau nesaf.

Ond mae yna ymyriadau ar bob lefel o daith yr ysgol, gan gynnwys ôl-16. Bydd yn gwybod yn fwyaf arbennig am y fagloriaeth sgiliau uwch a gyflwynwyd ym mis Medi, a fydd yn cael ei dilyn gan y mwyafrif o ddysgwyr Safon Uwch 16 i 18 oed, er enghraifft, ac mae hynny'n cynnwys elfennau i gefnogi llythrennedd. Ond byddaf yn gallu dweud mwy am hynny yn ystod yr wythnosau nesaf.

14:30

I drift between amazement and astonishment that there is a belief commonly shared in the Senedd in inspector infallibility. What inspection and external quality control mechanism is the Welsh Government using to ensure that Estyn inspection results are consistent and fair?

Rwy'n gwegian rhwng syndod a sioc fod yna gred a rennir yn gyffredinol yn y Senedd ynghylch anffaeledigrwydd arolygwyr. Pa fecanwaith arolygu a rheoli ansawdd allanol y mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn ei ddefnyddio i sicrhau bod canlyniadau arolygu Estyn yn gyson ac yn deg?

The Member is right: fairness and consistency of inspections obviously are essential to build public confidence in the Welsh education system. The Member obviously knows that Estyn is an independent body, but I'm aware that Estyn has a range of processes in place to ensure that question of consistency, which includes publishing a suite of inspection guidance documents that set out what they expect, what they inspect and how they expect inspectors to do that, which provides clarity and transparency. But there's also a robust ongoing training programme that ensures that all inspectors apply the frameworks consistently. There are annual updates for all its external inspectors. As he knows, most are current practitioners who carry out the role of a peer inspector on every team. And there's an audited quality assurance process for inspections and reports, which includes additional quality assurance and moderation where a provider is placed in follow-up.

Mae'r Aelod yn iawn: mae tegwch a chysondeb arolygiadau yn amlwg yn hanfodol i fagu hyder y cyhoedd yn system addysg Cymru. Mae'r Aelod yn amlwg yn gwybod bod Estyn yn gorff annibynnol, ond rwy'n ymwybodol fod gan Estyn ystod o brosesau ar waith i sicrhau cysondeb, sy'n cynnwys cyhoeddi cyfres o ddogfennau cyfarwyddyd arolygu sy'n nodi'r hyn y maent yn ei ddisgwyl, yr hyn y maent yn ei arolygu a sut y disgwyliant i arolygwyr wneud hynny, er mwyn darparu eglurder a thryloywder. Ond ceir rhaglen hyfforddi barhaus gadarn hefyd i sicrhau bod yr holl arolygwyr yn gweithredu'r fframweithiau'n gyson. Ceir diweddariadau blynyddol ar gyfer ei holl arolygwyr allanol. Fel y mae'n gwybod, addysgwyr cyfredol yw'r rhan fwyaf, sy'n cyflawni rôl arolygwyr cymheiriaid ar bob tîm. A cheir proses sicrhau ansawdd wedi'i harchwilio ar gyfer arolygiadau ac adroddiadau, sy'n cynnwys sicrwydd ansawdd ychwanegol a chymedroli lle bydd darparwr yn wynebu camau dilynol.

Cwestiynau Heb Rybudd gan Lefarwyr y Pleidiau
Questions Without Notice from Party Spokespeople

Cwestiynau nawr gan lefaryddion y pleidiau. Llefarydd y Ceidwadwyr, Samuel Kurtz.

Questions now from the party spokespeople. The Conservative spokesperson, Samuel Kurtz.

Diolch, Llywydd. Weinidog, rwy’n siŵr eich bod chi, fel llawer ohonom ni, wedi mwynhau’r darllediadau gwych o Gwpan Rygbi’r Byd ar S4C. Mae gallu mwynhau camp rŷch chi yn ei charu yn yr iaith Gymraeg yn rhywbeth arbennig. Mae'n biti garw na wnaeth Cymru bara'n hirach yn y twrnamaint fel y byddwn i wedi gallu gweld rhagor ar S4C. Fodd bynnag, rôn i'n siomedig ynghylch y sylwadau a wnaed i Mike Phillips, o fy etholaeth i, sy'n gyn chwaraewr rhyngwladol, ynghylch safon ei Gymraeg gan, nawr, cyn uwch swyddog S4C. Bwrodd Mike Phillips y sylwadau o'r maes a pharhau i ddadansoddi'n ardderchog yn y Gymraeg. Fodd bynnag, gall sylwadau o'r fath fod yn ergyd i hyder y rheini nad yw eu Cymraeg o bosib yn Gymraeg coeth. Ac os ydym ni am wireddu targedau 2050, mae'n rhaid i’r fath agwedd ddod i ben. Pa gamau rydych chi yn eu cymryd i wneud yn siŵr nad yw agweddau o’r fath yn rhai cyffredin a bod siaradwyr Cymraeg o bob gallu yn cael eu hannog i ddefnyddio’r iaith heb gael eu barnu?

Thank you, Llywydd. Minister, I'm sure that you, like many of us, have enjoyed the excellent coverage of the Rugby World Cup on S4C. Being able to enjoy a sport you love in the Welsh language is something special. I only wish that Wales had lasted longer in the tournament so that there was more S4C coverage. However, I was disappointed about the remarks made to my constituent the former international player Mike Phillips regarding the standard of his Welsh by a now former S4C senior officer. Mike brushed off the comments and provided excellent analysis in Welsh. However, such comments could be damaging to the confidence of those whose Welsh may not be deemed perfect. And if we are to meet the 2050 targets, these kinds of attitudes must end. What action are you taking to ensure that such attitudes are not the main stream and that Welsh speakers of all abilities are encouraged to make use of the language without being judged?

Gaf i ddiolch i’r Aelod am y cwestiwn hwnnw? Mae’n gyson gyda'r pwyslais y mae e yn ei roi, ac rwy’n ei gymeradwyo am hynny, i sicrhau bod y Gymraeg yn hygyrch i bawb a’n bod ni'n sicrhau croeso i bobl sydd yn ceisio dysgu a siarad y Gymraeg. Fel y mae e'n gwybod, rwy'n lladmerydd dros y syniad fod y Gymraeg yn perthyn i bob un ohonom ni, gan gynnwys y rhai sydd efallai yn gwybod ond ychydig o eiriau, ac eraill sy’n siaradwyr hyderus, ac mai'r peth pwysig yw sicrhau ein bod ni’n defnyddio’r hyn o Gymraeg sydd gyda ni bob cyfle posib ac i bawb arall groesawu ymdrechion pobl i wneud hynny. Mae wedi bod yn gysur clywed mwy a mwy o Aelodau yn y Siambr hon yn defnyddio mwy a mwy o Gymraeg yn ein trafodaethau. Felly, mae angen sicrhau ein bod ni'n parhau i ddanfon y neges honno at siaradwyr ym mhob cyfathrebiad ac yn y ffordd rŷn i'n sôn am ac yn trafod yr iaith hefyd. Nid bod yn rhugl yn yr iaith yw'r peth pwysig, ond sicrhau ein bod ni'n defnyddio’r hyn sydd gyda ni a jest dysgu mwy a mwy o eiriau bob dydd os gallwn ni.

First of all, may I thank the Member for that question? It is in line with the emphasis that he gives, and I applaud him for that, in ensuring that the Welsh language is accessible to all and that we welcome everyone who seeks to learn and use the Welsh language. As he knows, I am an advocate for the idea that the Welsh language belongs to each and every one of us, including those who know only a few words, and others who are confident Welsh speakers, and that the important thing is to ensure that we use the Welsh language skills that we have at all possible opportunities and that everyone else should welcome people's efforts in doing that. It's been comforting to hear more and more Members in this Chamber using more Welsh in our discussions. So, we need to continue to send that message to speakers in all communications and in the way that we discuss the language too. It's not being fluent that's important, but ensuring that we use the skills that we have and learn more and more every day if we can. 

Diolch i ti, Weinidog, am yr ateb. Ar y pegwn arall wedyn, cawsom y sylw gan yr Athro Nigel Hunt o Brifysgol Wrecsam am arwyddion ffyrdd dwyieithog. Mae'r sylwadau hyn wedi eu beirniadu, yn gwbl briodol, ym mhob cwr, a deallaf nad yw'r athro bellach yn gweithio i’r brifysgol. Mae’r hyn a ddywedodd yn asesiad diog o’r sefyllfa ac yn arddangos anwybodaeth o statws yr iaith yng Nghymru. Fodd bynnag, ac yn anffodus, mae’r safbwyntiau hyn yn taro tant gyda nifer fach o bobl, yn aml y rheini sy’n byw mewn cymunedau sy’n agos at y ffin â Lloegr. Rwy'n anghytuno â nhw ac o'r farn bod yr iaith yn ein gwneud ni'n gryfach fel gwlad. Ond a yw'r Gweinidog yn credu mai diswyddo'r Athro Hunt oedd y cam cywir i'r brifysgol ei gymryd? A beth mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn ei wneud i annog y rheini sy'n parhau i fod yn amheus ynghylch gwerth siarad Cymraeg i ymuno â phrosiect 'Cymraeg 2050'?

Thank you, Minister, for that response. On the other end of the spectrum then, we have the comment by Professor Nigel Hunt from Wrexham University about bilingual road signs. His comments have rightly been criticised across the board. I understand that he now no longer works for the university. What he said is a lazy assessment of the situation and displays an ignorance of the status of the language in Wales. However, and unfortunately, these views do resonate with a small number of people, often those living in communities that are close to the English border. I disagree with them and I believe that the language makes us stronger as a country. But does the Minister believe that the sacking of Professor Hunt was the right course of action for the university to take? And what is the Welsh Government doing to encourage those who remain sceptical about the value of speaking Welsh to get on board with the 'Cymraeg 2050' project?

Mater i'r brifysgol yw'r camau penodol maen nhw wedi eu cymryd, ond, yn sicr, rwy'n anghytuno gyda sylwadau yr athro, fel y mae llawer iawn o bobl eraill wedi'i wneud. Ond beth fyddwn i'n ei ddweud yw, am bob person sy'n barod i chwilio am ffordd o feirniadu'r defnydd o'r Gymraeg, mae llawer mwy o bobl sy'n teimlo cynhesrwydd at yr iaith, a, pa un ai eu bod nhw'n siarad yr iaith ai peidio, yn dymuno clywed a siarad mwy a mwy ohoni. Felly, mae'n gyfle i ni ddathlu a'u croesawu nhw, ynghyd â hefyd sicrhau ein bod ni'n glir nad yw'r math yna o safbwynt yn dderbyniol.

The particular steps that the university took are a matter for them, but, certainly, I disagree with the comments made by the professor, as many others do. But what I would say is that, for every individual who's looking to criticise the use of the Welsh language, there are far more people who feel an affection for the language, and, whether they speak the language or not, do want to hear and speak more and more of it. So it’s an opportunity for us to celebrate and welcome them, as well as ensuring that those kinds of views are unacceptable.

14:35

Diolch i ti unwaith eto am yr ateb, Weinidog. Dros y dyddiau diwethaf, cyhoeddwyd bod yr ap iaith poblogaidd Duolingo yn rhoi'r gorau i sawl cwrs iaith, gan gynnwys y Gymraeg. Er na fydd y cwrs yn cael ei ddileu, mae'n golygu na fydd y cynnwys yn cael ei ddiweddaru, ac na fydd modd ychwanegu ato. Dywedodd Duolingo yn 2020 mai Cymraeg oedd yr iaith sy'n tyfu gyflymaf ar ei ap yn y Deyrnas Unedig, gyda dros 1.5 miliwn o bobl yn ei ddefnyddio i ddysgu Cymraeg. Mae'ch adran wedi bod mewn cysylltiad â'r cwmni. Gaf i ofyn pa gynigion y mae Llywodraeth Cymru wedi eu gwneud, ac oes unrhyw ymateb wedi dod i law gan reolwyr Duolingo?

Thank you once again for that response, Minister. Over the last few days, it was announced that the popular language app Duolingo is stopping several language courses, including Welsh. And whilst the course will not be removed, it does mean that the content will not be updated or added to. Duolingo said in 2020 that Welsh was the fastest-growing language on the app in the UK, with over 1.5 million people using the app to learn Welsh. Your department has been in touch with the company. May I ask what proposals the Welsh Government has made, and whether any response has been received from Duolingo management?

Mae Duolingo yn un o'r ffyrdd y mae pobl yn ei defnyddio i ddod at y Gymraeg—un o'r amryw o ffyrdd, wrth gwrs—ac mae'n parhau i fod yn llwybr sydd yn atyniadol, am resymau y byddwn ni'n eu deall. Rwyf wedi ysgrifennu at Duolingo, yn gofyn iddyn nhw ailystyried y penderfyniad maen nhw wedi ei gymryd. Ond fel y gwnaeth yr Aelod ei ddweud, dyw'r Gymraeg ddim yn mynd i ffwrdd o'r platfform—bydd hi'n parhau i fod yna. Fel efallai y bydd e'n ei gofio, mae'r Gymraeg yn un o'r enghreifftiau prin—efallai yr unig enghraifft—lle nad gwirfoddolwyr sy'n creu'r cynnwys y tu hwnt i'r ap. Ers rhyw gyfnod nawr, mae'r Ganolfan Dysgu Cymraeg Genedlaethol wedi bod yn gyfrifol am ddatblygu cynnwys yr ap yn y Gymraeg, yn adeiladu ar y gwaith gloyw a phwysig iawn y gwnaeth gwirfoddolwyr ei wneud cyn hynny. Felly, yn sgil hynny, fy nealltwriaeth i yw bod mwy o ddatblygiad cyflym wedi digwydd i'r cynnwys sydd ar yr ap yn y Gymraeg efallai nag mewn rhai ieithoedd eraill. Felly mae'n bosib y bydd yr effaith yn llai andwyol ar y Gymraeg nag ar rai ieithoedd eraill. Ond byddwn i yn hoffi gweld Duolingo yn newid eu penderfyniad, nid o leiaf am y ffaith bod gennym ni strwythur sydd wedi ei hariannu yma yng Nghymru sydd yn barod i allu parhau i ddatblygu cynnwys ar yr ap.

Duolingo is one of the means that people use to access the Welsh language—one of the many means, of course—and it continues to be an attractive route, for reasons we could fully understand. I have written to Duolingo, asking them to reconsider the decision that they have taken. But as the Member mentioned, the Welsh language won’t be removed from the platform—it will remain there. And as the Member may recall, the Welsh language is one of the few examples—perhaps the only example—where it’s not volunteers that create the content for the app. For some time now, the National Centre for Learning Welsh has been responsible for developing the content of the app in the Welsh language, and they have built on the excellent work done by volunteers prior to that. So, in light of that, my understanding is that there has been more and swifter development for the Welsh language on the app than in some other languages. So it’s possible that the impact will be less detrimental on the Welsh language than on some other languages. But I would like to see Duolingo reversing its decision, not least for the fact that we do have a structure in place that is funded in Wales and is ready to continue to develop content on the app.

Llefarydd Plaid Cymru, Heledd Fychan.

Plaid Cymru spokesperson, Heledd Fychan.

Diolch, Llywydd. Weinidog, os caf i ddychwelyd at yr arbedion a ganfuwyd eleni, ac yn benodol o ran y gyllideb addysg gychwynnol i athrawon. Fel rydych chi'n ymwybodol, mae yna dri chynllun cymell ar gael i fyfyrwyr. Allwch chi amlinellu, os gwelwch yn dda, faint o arbedion a ganfuwyd, ac ym mha rai o'r tri chynllun cymell sydd ar gael?

Minister, if I may return to the savings that were found this year, and specifically with regard to the initial teacher training and education budget. As you are aware, there are three incentive schemes open to students. Can you outline, please, how much savings were identified, and in which of these three incentive schemes that are available?

Dyw'r ffigurau ddim o'm blaen i, ond byddwn i'n hapus i'w rhannu nhw â'r Aelod.

I don’t have those figures in front of me, but I would be happy to share them with the Member.

Diolch yn fawr iawn. Byddai hi'n fuddiol gwybod hynny, oherwydd yn amlwg mae dirfawr angen athrawon arnom ni—dyna pam mae'r cynlluniau hyn yn bodoli. Gan eich bod chi wedi canfod arbedion eleni, mi fyddai hi'n fuddiol gwybod pa un o'r tri, oherwydd yn amlwg rydym ni angen bod yn cael yr athrawon yn y meysydd hyn—mae yna bwrpas pam eich bod chi wedi rhoi cymaint o bwyslais ar hyn. Pam ydych chi'n meddwl bod y nifer sy'n manteisio ar y cymhellion hyn yn is na'r disgwyl, ac a ydych chi wedi asesu eto beth fydd goblygiadau hynny?

Thank you very much. It would be beneficial to know that, because obviously we really do need more teachers—that’s why these schemes exist. Because you have found savings this year, it would be beneficial to know which of those three schemes has been impacted, because we do need to be getting students and teachers into these areas—there is a reason why you’ve placed such emphasis on this. So why do you think that the number who are taking these incentives is lower than expected, and have you assessed yet what the implications of that will be?

Wrth gwrs, mae rhyw berthynas rhwng darparu cymhellion a chynnydd mewn niferoedd—dyw e ddim yn gwbl glir, ond mae'r darlun cyffredinol yn dangos bod perthynas bositif rhwng y ddau. Byddwn i yn dweud mai dyma un o'r ffyrdd rydym ni'n annog pobl i ddod yn athrawon yn y Gymraeg, ac mewn pynciau eraill hefyd. Mae hi'n ffordd bwysig, a byddwn ni'n parhau'r cymhellion y flwyddyn nesaf, wrth gwrs, am y rhesymau hynny. Jest i ddweud, gwahaniaeth rhwng yr hyn roeddem ni'n ei ddarogan a fyddai'n digwydd a'r hyn a wnaeth ddigwydd ar lawr gwlad yw'r arbedion yn yr achos yma, felly dydym ni ddim wedi torri cyfle i unrhyw unigolyn i dderbyn y gefnogaeth hon. Ac mae'r hyn rydym ni'n ei ddarogan o flwyddyn i flwyddyn wrth gwrs yn symud—byddech chi'n disgwyl gweld hynny. Ond byddwn i'n hapus i rannu'r ffigurau penodol gyda'r Aelod.

Of course, there is some relationship between providing incentives and an increase in numbers—it’s not entirely clear, but the general picture does demonstrate that there is a positive interrelationship between the two. I would say that this is one of the ways that we encourage people to become teachers, teaching Welsh, and other subjects too. It’s an important approach, and we will continue with those incentives next year for those reasons. Just to say, it’s the difference between what we anticipated would happen and what happened on the ground—that’s what the savings are in this case. So, we haven’t made cuts or prevented any individual form accessing this support. And what we forecast year to year does shift—you’d expect to see that. But I’d be happy to share those specific figures with the Member.

Gwrthsemitiaeth
Antisemitism

3. Pa gamau y mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn eu cymryd i hyrwyddo diffiniad Cynghrair Ryngwladol Cofio’r Holocost (IHRA) o wrthsemitiaeth i gael ei fabwysiadu gan y sector addysg bellach ac uwch yng Nghymru? OQ60147

3. What action is the Welsh Government taking to promote the adoption of the International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance definition of antisemitism by the further and higher education sector in Wales? OQ60147

Adoption of the International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance definition of antisemitism—which, as the Member knows, the Welsh Government itself has done—is a matter for universities and FE institutions themselves. However, whilst I respect institutional autonomy, I have been clear with university leaders that I would like to see them adopt the IHRA definition of antisemitism.

Mater i brifysgolion a sefydliadau addysg bellach eu hunain yw mabwysiadu diffiniad Cynghrair Ryngwladol Cofio'r Holocost o wrthsemitiaeth, sydd, fel y gŵyr yr Aelod, yn rhywbeth y mae Llywodraeth Cymru ei hun wedi'i wneud. Fodd bynnag, er fy mod yn parchu annibyniaeth sefydliadol, rwyf wedi bod yn glir gydag arweinwyr prifysgolion yr hoffwn eu gweld yn mabwysiadu diffiniad y gynghrair o wrthsemitiaeth.

14:40

I'm very pleased that you've made clear what the Government's position is on this. Earlier this year, the Community Security Trust published a report that showed a 22 per cent increase in university-related antisemitic hate incidents over the past two years, and according to the Campaign Against Antisemitism, there's been a huge surge of 1,350 per cent in antisemitic incidents across the UK since the start of the ongoing hostilities between Israel and Hamas in recent weeks. 

We all agree that hate incidents should not be tolerated, particularly at publicly funded institutions. But, regrettably, unlike the overwhelming majority of universities in England and Scotland, the Welsh higher education sector, and the further education sector, is way behind in adopting the IHRA antisemitism definition. I appreciate what you say, that, from a legal perspective, it is a matter for Welsh universities to decide whether they adopt the definition or not, but the Government holds the purse strings for significant sums of income for these organisations. Therefore, can I ask you, will you now take further action on this front by requiring all Welsh further education colleges and all Welsh universities to adopt the IHRA definition as a condition of funding from the Welsh Government?

Rwy'n falch iawn eich bod wedi nodi'n glir beth yw safbwynt y Llywodraeth ar hyn. Yn gynharach eleni, cyhoeddodd yr Ymddiriedolaeth Diogelwch Cymunedol adroddiad a ddangosodd gynnydd o 22 y cant mewn digwyddiadau casineb gwrthsemitig yn gysylltiedig â phrifysgolion dros y ddwy flynedd ddiwethaf, ac yn ôl yr Ymgyrch yn Erbyn Gwrthsemitiaeth, bu ymchwydd enfawr o 1,350 y cant mewn digwyddiadau gwrthsemitig ledled y DU ers dechrau'r ymladd sy'n parhau rhwng Israel a Hamas dros yr wythnosau diwethaf. 

Rydym i gyd yn cytuno na ddylid goddef digwyddiadau casineb, yn enwedig mewn sefydliadau a ariennir yn gyhoeddus. Ond yn anffodus, yn wahanol i'r mwyafrif llethol o brifysgolion yn Lloegr a'r Alban, mae sector addysg uwch Cymru, a'r sector addysg bellach, ymhell ar ei hôl hi'n mabwysiadu diffiniad gwrthsemitiaeth Cynghrair Ryngwladol Cofio'r Holocost. Rwy'n deall yr hyn rydych chi'n ei ddweud, o safbwynt cyfreithiol, mai mater i brifysgolion Cymru yw penderfynu a ydynt yn mabwysiadu'r diffiniad ai peidio, ond y Llywodraeth sy'n dal llinynnau'r pwrs ar symiau sylweddol o incwm i'r sefydliadau hyn. Felly, a gaf fi ofyn i chi, a wnewch chi roi camau pellach ar waith nawr yn hyn o beth drwy ei gwneud yn ofynnol i bob coleg addysg bellach yng Nghymru a phob prifysgol yng Nghymru fabwysiadu diffiniad Cynghrair Ryngwladol Cofio'r Holocost fel amod cyllido gan Lywodraeth Cymru?

As the Member, I think, knows from our previous discussions, I met Lord Mann, who is the UK Government's adviser on antisemitism, to discuss the approach in relation to educational institutions. I met also with the Union of Jewish Students, and with the National Union of Students Wales in relation to this, and I've raised this not just with vice-chancellors, but also with university chairs. He knows what my personal position is, and what the Government's position is. Universities in Wales are following the Universities UK guidance in relation to antisemitism and Islamophobia. 

I do agree with the Member about the importance of bearing down on incidents of antisemitism, and, indeed, Islamophobia, in our education system generally. There are clear obligations in the anti-racist Wales action plan on all parts of our education system. This week, I'm meeting, together with the Minister for Social Justice, with representatives of the Jewish community in Wales to discuss their concerns about incidents of antisemitism in our education system, and it will be an important opportunity to hear their perspectives and what more we can do to support them in that.  

Fel y credaf fod yr Aelod yn gwybod o'n trafodaethau blaenorol, cyfarfûm â'r Arglwydd Mann, sef cynghorydd Llywodraeth y DU ar wrthsemitiaeth, i drafod y dull gweithredu mewn perthynas â sefydliadau addysgol. Cyfarfûm hefyd ag Undeb y Myfyrwyr Iddewig, a chydag Undeb Cenedlaethol Myfyrwyr Cymru mewn perthynas â hyn, ac rwyf wedi codi hyn nid yn unig gydag is-gangellorion, ond gyda chadeiryddion prifysgolion hefyd. Mae'n gwybod beth yw fy safbwynt personol, a beth yw safbwynt y Llywodraeth. Mae prifysgolion yng Nghymru yn dilyn canllawiau Universities UK mewn perthynas â gwrthsemitiaeth ac Islamoffobia. 

Rwy'n cytuno â'r Aelod ynglŷn â phwysigrwydd ymateb yn chwyrn i achosion o wrthsemitiaeth, ac Islamoffobia yn wir, yn ein system addysg yn gyffredinol. Mae rhwymedigaethau clir yn y cynllun gweithredu Cymru wrth-hiliol ar bob rhan o'n system addysg. Yr wythnos hon, mae'r Gweinidog Cyfiawnder Cymdeithasol a minnau'n cyfarfod â chynrychiolwyr y gymuned Iddewig yng Nghymru i drafod eu pryderon ynglŷn ag achosion o wrthsemitiaeth yn ein system addysg, a bydd yn gyfle pwysig i glywed eu safbwyntiau a beth arall y gallwn ei wneud i'w cefnogi yn hynny o beth.  

Disgyblion ag Anghenion Dysgu Ychwanegol
Pupils with Additional Learning Needs

4. Pa gamau y mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn eu cymryd i wella'r gefnogaeth i ddisgyblion ag anghenion dysgu ychwanegol? OQ60154

4. What action is the Welsh Government taking to improve support for pupils with additional learning needs? OQ60154

The additional learning needs system changes both the legal framework and practices to help ensure children and young people with ALN receive the support they need to meet their individual needs.

Mae'r system anghenion dysgu ychwanegol yn newid y fframwaith cyfreithiol ac ymarfer i helpu i sicrhau bod plant a phobl ifanc ag ADY yn cael y cymorth sydd ei angen arnynt i ddiwallu eu hanghenion unigol.

Thank you for that response, Minister. Qualifications Wales's recent equalities analysis of the 2023 results found that pupils with ALN are three times less likely to achieve a grade of A/7 or above. These results simply underline the widely held belief that we are failing pupils with additional needs. It is clear that we can't continue on the current path. Minister, you have refused calls for mandatory training in additional learning needs for education staff. Will you now reconsider? How can we possibly hope to improve the education of young people with ALN if teachers fail to grasp the challenges faced by the 20 to 40 per cent of learners who are currently struggling within our education system? Thank you. 

Diolch am eich ateb, Weinidog. Canfu dadansoddiad cydraddoldeb diweddar Cymwysterau Cymru o ganlyniadau 2023 fod disgyblion ag ADY dair gwaith yn llai tebygol o gael gradd A/7 neu uwch. Mae'r canlyniadau hyn yn tanlinellu'r gred gyffredinol ein bod yn gwneud cam â disgyblion ag anghenion ychwanegol. Mae'n amlwg na allwn barhau ar y llwybr presennol. Weinidog, rydych chi wedi gwrthod galwadau am hyfforddiant gorfodol mewn anghenion dysgu ychwanegol i staff addysg. A wnewch chi ailystyried nawr? Sut y gallwn ni obeithio gwella addysg pobl ifanc ag ADY os bydd athrawon yn methu deall yr heriau sy'n wynebu'r 20 i 40 y cant o ddysgwyr sy'n ei chael hi'n anodd ar hyn o bryd yn ein system addysg? Diolch. 

The results for 2022-23 will be the results of young people who haven't yet been through the education system in its reformed form, with the implementation of the additional learning needs reforms. As the Member knows, we are two years into a four-year transformation programme, which will have the effect of improving outcomes at all levels for young people with additional learning needs, and more closely addressing their particular needs. 

In relation to the question of mandatory training, this is a subject that has been discussed in this Chamber on many occasions. You will know, I think, from those earlier discussions that we are tightening the requirements for accreditation for initial teacher education and for induction, and that we've invested in a large programme of professional learning, which is intended to support the workforce in relation to ALN implementation.

As he will know, I'm sure, from the Estyn thematic review most recently, there are some points in that review that we will take into account in relation to what further training and resources we can provide. And I am planning on making a full statement after the half term in relation to how we respond more generally to both our own findings and those from Estyn in relation to the ALN reforms more broadly.

Y canlyniadau ar gyfer 2022-23 fydd canlyniadau pobl ifanc nad ydynt eto wedi bod drwy'r system addysg ar ei ffurf ddiwygiedig, gyda gweithredu'r diwygiadau anghenion dysgu ychwanegol. Fel y gŵyr yr Aelod, rydym ddwy flynedd i mewn i raglen drawsnewid bedair blynedd o hyd, a fydd yn arwain at wella canlyniadau ar bob lefel i bobl ifanc ag anghenion dysgu ychwanegol, ac yn mynd i'r afael yn fanylach â'u hanghenion penodol. 

Ar y cwestiwn ynglŷn â hyfforddiant gorfodol, mae hwn yn bwnc a drafodwyd yn y Siambr ar sawl achlysur. Rwy'n credu y byddwch yn gwybod o'r trafodaethau cynharach ein bod yn tynhau'r gofynion ar gyfer achredu addysg gychwynnol athrawon a sefydlu athrawon, a'n bod wedi buddsoddi mewn rhaglen fawr o ddysgu proffesiynol, gyda'r bwriad o gefnogi'r gweithlu mewn perthynas â gweithredu ADY.

Fel y bydd yn gwybod o adolygiad thematig Estyn yn ddiweddar rwy'n siŵr, mae rhai pwyntiau yn yr adolygiad hwnnw y byddwn yn eu hystyried mewn perthynas â pha hyfforddiant ac adnoddau pellach y gallwn eu darparu. Ac rwy'n bwriadu gwneud datganiad llawn ar ôl hanner tymor ynglŷn â sut rydym yn ymateb yn fwy cyffredinol i'n canfyddiadau ein hunain a'r rhai gan Estyn mewn perthynas â'r diwygiadau ADY yn ehangach.

14:45

Minister, we have seen a number of petitions recently regarding support for pupils with additional learning needs. The petitions were a wide range, calling for reviews of the Act, calling for reform of the Act and also calling for funding for specialist provision, such as dedicated support plans. I'm aware that my colleague Jayne Bryant is leading an inquiry into the implementation of the ALN Act, as Chair of the Children, Young People and Education Committee, and I await the recommendations with interest, Minister. But what assurances can you give to the petitioners today that their views will be taken into serious consideration, going forward?

Weinidog, rydym wedi gweld nifer o ddeisebau yn ddiweddar ynghylch cymorth i ddisgyblion ag anghenion dysgu ychwanegol. Roedd yna ystod eang o ddeisebau, yn galw am adolygiadau o'r Ddeddf, yn galw am ddiwygio'r Ddeddf a hefyd yn galw am gyllid ar gyfer darpariaeth arbenigol, fel cynlluniau cymorth penodedig. Rwy'n ymwybodol fod fy nghyd-Aelod Jayne Bryant yn arwain ymchwiliad i weithrediad y Ddeddf ADY, fel Cadeirydd y Pwyllgor Plant, Pobl Ifanc ac Addysg, ac rwy'n aros am yr argymhellion gyda diddordeb, Weinidog. Ond pa sicrwydd y gallwch chi ei roi i'r deisebwyr heddiw y bydd eu barn yn cael ei hystyried o ddifrif, wrth symud ymlaen?

Thank you to Jack Sargeant for that question. I'm obviously aware of the petition and the CYPE committee's ongoing inquiry on education reforms. And, just to be clear, I think the insights of parents and carers are absolutely vital and, whatever level of support a petition is getting, I think it's incumbent on us to listen to what we are hearing and to take that fully into account. As I mentioned just now in my response to Altaf Hussain, we are around halfway through the implementation of the new reform programme. And I think the insights of parents and carers have been vital in helping us understand how that is working on the ground, and the insights of the petitioners chime with those we are receiving both from other stakeholders and the parent events that SNAP deliver on our behalf. Also, some of the points made are consistent with the Estyn thematic review, which I also just mentioned. 

I think, in hearing the voices of parents and carers in the way that we want to, there are clearly areas in the ALN system that need to be improved on, and we are working with local authorities, with other education stakeholders, to share those insights more broadly across the system and to identify those challenges, but very much informed by the voice of parents and carers as well, so that we can mitigate some of those perhaps unexpected variations that we've seen—there will always be a level of variation, but some of the unexpected variations—and so that we can develop solutions to those particular challenges. 

Diolch i Jack Sargeant am y cwestiwn. Rwy'n amlwg yn ymwybodol o'r ddeiseb ac ymchwiliad parhaus y Pwyllgor Plant, Pobl Ifanc ac Addysg ar ddiwygio addysg. Ac i fod yn glir, rwy'n credu bod mewnwelediad rhieni a gofalwyr yn gwbl hanfodol a pha lefel bynnag o gefnogaeth y bydd deiseb yn ei chael, rwy'n credu ei bod yn ddyletswydd arnom i wrando ar yr hyn rydym yn ei glywed ac ystyried hynny'n llawn. Fel y soniais nawr yn fy ymateb i Altaf Hussain, rydym tua hanner ffordd drwy weithredu'r rhaglen ddiwygio newydd. Ac rwy'n credu bod mewnwelediad rhieni a gofalwyr wedi bod yn hanfodol i'n helpu i ddeall sut mae hynny'n gweithio ar lawr gwlad, ac mae mewnwelediad y deisebwyr yn cyd-fynd â'r rhai a gawn gan randdeiliaid eraill a'r digwyddiadau rhieni y mae SNAP yn eu darparu ar ein rhan. Hefyd, mae rhai o'r pwyntiau a wnaed yn cyd-fynd ag adolygiad thematig Estyn, y soniais amdano hefyd. 

Wrth glywed lleisiau rhieni a gofalwyr yn y ffordd rydym eisiau ei wneud, rwy'n credu bod yna feysydd yn amlwg yn y system ADY y mae angen eu gwella, ac rydym yn gweithio gydag awdurdodau lleol, gyda rhanddeiliaid addysg eraill, i rannu'r syniadau hynny'n ehangach ar draws y system ac i nodi'r heriau hynny, ond gan gael ein llywio'n bendant iawn gan lais rhieni a gofalwyr hefyd, fel y gallwn liniaru rhai o'r amrywiadau annisgwyl a welsom—bydd yna bob amser lefel o amrywio, ond rhai o'r amrywiadau annisgwyl—ac er mwyn inni allu datblygu atebion i'r heriau penodol hynny. 

Sgiliau Llythrennedd
Literacy Skills

5. Sut mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn annog plant a phobl ifanc i ddatblygu eu sgiliau llythrennedd? OQ60166

5. How is the Welsh Government encouraging children and young people to develop their literacy skills? OQ60166

Well, literacy is at the heart of the Curriculum for Wales as one of the mandatory cross-curricular skills. Literacy skills are key to our children and young people being able to access learning for life and in breaking down the barriers to reaching their potential in education and beyond.

Wel, mae llythrennedd yn ganolog yn y Cwricwlwm i Gymru fel un o'r sgiliau trawsgwricwlaidd gorfodol. Mae sgiliau llythrennedd yn allweddol i'n plant a'n pobl ifanc allu cael mynediad at ddysgu am oes ac i chwalu'r rhwystrau i gyrraedd eu potensial mewn addysg a thu hwnt.

Thank you for that answer, Minister. We rightly often talk about the whole-school approach to mental health. As reading is so important for all learners as a gateway to learning, there is merit in pursuing a whole-school approach to reading and literacy. What could the Welsh Government do to achieve that? And what assessment has the Minister made of the contribution of phonics to improving literacy and oracy?

Diolch am yr ateb hwnnw, Weinidog. Rydym yn siarad yn aml am y dull ysgol gyfan o ymdrin ag iechyd meddwl. Gan fod darllen mor bwysig i bob dysgwr fel porth i ddysgu, mae rhinwedd mewn dilyn dull ysgol gyfan ar gyfer darllen a llythrennedd. Beth y gallai Llywodraeth Cymru ei wneud i gyflawni hynny? A pha asesiad y mae'r Gweinidog wedi'i wneud o gyfraniad ffoneg i wella llythrennedd a llafaredd?

I thank the Member for that supplementary question. It's absolutely crucial, I think, that we take a whole-system approach to literacy and oracy, reflecting the point that the leader of the opposition asked about earlier as well. The oracy and reading toolkit, which we published in March, provides a package of support to schools and practitioners, so that they can try and identify opportunities to achieve high standards of listening, speaking and reading, and literacy more broadly, where the whole school community is working together in the way that the Member's question highlighted, and doing that in a way that is co-ordinated and consistent, and, importantly, in a very sustained way.

On the question of phonics, the curriculum framework sets out a clear policy approach to the initial teaching of reading and of systematic phonics. But I want to make sure that is being sufficiently emphasised and fully realised, if you like, in schools as they roll out the curriculum. So, we are working during this autumn term with the regions and with others to set out a consistent expectation of the role that phonics can play as part of a broader suite of interventions, and I'll be hoping to make a further statement in relation to that. But I think that role of a consistent national approach towards phonics as part of a broader suite of interventions is a really important aspect of how that whole-school approach can genuinely deliver on literacy for our young people.

Diolch i'r Aelod am y cwestiwn atodol. Rwy'n credu ei bod hi'n gwbl hanfodol ein bod yn mabwysiadu dull system gyfan ar gyfer llythrennedd a llafaredd, gan adlewyrchu'r pwynt y gofynnodd arweinydd yr wrthblaid yn ei gylch yn gynharach hefyd. Mae'r pecyn cymorth llafaredd a darllen, a gyhoeddwyd gennym ym mis Mawrth, yn darparu cymorth i ysgolion ac addysgwyr, fel y gallant geisio nodi cyfleoedd i gyrraedd safonau uchel o wrando, siarad a darllen, a llythrennedd yn ehangach, lle mae cymuned yr ysgol gyfan yn gweithio gyda'i gilydd yn y modd y tynnodd cwestiwn yr Aelod sylw ato, a gwneud hynny mewn ffordd sy'n gydgysylltiedig ac yn gyson, ac yn bwysig, mewn ffordd gynaledig iawn.

Ar ffoneg, mae fframwaith y cwricwlwm yn nodi dull polisi clir ar gyfer addysgu cychwynnol ym maes darllen a ffoneg systematig. Ond rwyf am sicrhau bod hynny'n cael ei bwysleisio'n ddigonol a'i wireddu'n llawn, os mynnwch, mewn ysgolion wrth iddynt gyflwyno'r cwricwlwm. Felly, rydym yn gweithio yn ystod tymor yr hydref gyda'r rhanbarthau a chydag eraill i nodi disgwyliad cyson o'r rôl y gall ffoneg ei chwarae yn rhan o gyfres ehangach o ymyriadau, ac rwy'n gobeithio gwneud datganiad pellach mewn perthynas â hynny. Ond rwy'n credu bod rôl dull cenedlaethol cyson ar gyfer ffoneg fel rhan o gyfres ehangach o ymyriadau yn agwedd bwysig iawn ar sut y gall y dull ysgol gyfan gyflawni'n wirioneddol o ran llythrennedd i'n pobl ifanc.

14:50

Minister, I just wanted to come back to the answers you gave to the leader of the opposition surrounding the Estyn chief inspector's comments in his interim annual report. Andrew R.T. Davies, of course, noted that the report mentioned that there were too many primary pupils making basic errors in grammar and punctuation that are not addressed well enough through teacher feedback. In fact, more than six in 10 of the 28 secondaries inspected in the 2022-23 academic year had a recommendation to improve the effectiveness of their teaching, while Estyn found that, in half of all the age-three-to-16 schools inspected, there were too many inconsistencies in the quality of teaching, and three of the seven special schools inspected received a recommendation relating to improving consistency in quality of teaching. Now, I know many teachers, as I'm sure you do as well, and they do a sterling job, I think, on behalf of their pupils, but, for me, there are too many references in that interim report in terms of the quality of teaching, and that is a concern. And ultimately, the Welsh Government, I think, is as responsible for teaching quality as it is for teaching provision. So, in light of the comments in this report, what steps are you taking to improve the quality of teaching that pupils do receive?

Weinidog, roeddwn eisiau dod yn ôl at yr atebion a roddwyd gennych i arweinydd yr wrthblaid ynghylch sylwadau prif arolygydd Estyn yn ei adroddiad blynyddol interim. Nododd Andrew R.T. Davies, wrth gwrs, fod yr adroddiad yn sôn bod gormod o ddisgyblion cynradd yn gwneud camgymeriadau sylfaenol mewn gramadeg ac atalnodi nad ydynt yn cael sylw digonol drwy adborth athrawon. Mewn gwirionedd, roedd gan fwy na chwech o bob 10 o'r 28 ysgol uwchradd a arolygwyd ym mlwyddyn academaidd 2022-23 argymhelliad i wella effeithiolrwydd eu haddysgu, tra canfu Estyn fod gormod o anghysondebau yn ansawdd yr addysgu yn hanner yr holl ysgolion tair i 16 oed a arolygwyd, a chafodd tair o'r saith ysgol arbennig a arolygwyd argymhelliad yn ymwneud â gwella cysondeb ansawdd yr addysgu. Nawr, rwy'n adnabod llawer o athrawon, fel rwy'n siŵr eich bod chithau hefyd, ac maent yn gwneud gwaith rhagorol ar ran eu disgyblion, ond i mi, mae gormod o gyfeiriadau yn yr adroddiad interim am ansawdd yr addysgu, ac mae hynny'n bryder. Ac yn y pen draw, credaf fod Llywodraeth Cymru yr un mor gyfrifol am ansawdd addysgu ag am ddarpariaeth addysgu. Felly, yng ngoleuni'r sylwadau yn yr adroddiad hwn, pa gamau rydych chi'n eu cymryd i wella ansawdd yr addysgu y mae disgyblion yn ei gael?

I do recognise the points the Member is quoting from the report. I think it's also important to say, both in response to the points he's made and that the leader of the opposition made, that this is part of an overall assessment of all parts of our education system, and, perhaps understandably, the Member is highlighting some of the challenges, but I would encourage people with an interest to read the report to see the very, very wide range of very positive things about the work our teachers do day in, day out, which the Estyn inspectorate is also encouraging us to pay attention to.

It's absolutely important to make sure that the quality of teaching and learning is the very highest possible. Our national professional learning entitlement plays an absolutely fundamental role in ensuring that practitioners across Wales have access to high-quality professional learning throughout their career. As part of the work to embed that entitlement, we are introducing a new validation process that will ensure progressively that all the resources available are of the highest possible standard. There's a lot of available support and resources for teachers to identify their training needs in accordance with the professional standards as professionals. The challenge isn't, I think, the quality of the resource; it's sometimes around the navigability—how you go about finding it, in a way—where teachers who are very time poor, if you like, may find that challenging. So, there's a piece of work already under way in relation to that. And he will, I'm sure, know about the new professional learning area on Hwb that is intended to bring all of that together to make it easier for teachers to find. We are absolutely committed to making sure that teacher development, and practitioner development more broadly, is adequately resourced, and he will know that we have dedicated funding that we provide for schools and also time for practitioners to engage with professional learning opportunities, including an additional national professional learning in-service training day, backed up by funding.

Rwy'n cydnabod y pwyntiau y mae'r Aelod yn eu dyfynnu o'r adroddiad. Rwy'n credu ei bod hefyd yn bwysig dweud, mewn ymateb i'r pwyntiau y mae wedi'u gwneud ac y mae arweinydd yr wrthblaid wedi'u gwneud, fod hyn yn rhan o asesiad cyffredinol o bob rhan o'n system addysg, ac yn ddealladwy efallai, mae'r Aelod yn tynnu sylw at rai o'r heriau, ond hoffwn annog pobl sydd â diddordeb i ddarllen yr adroddiad i weld yr ystod eang iawn o bethau cadarnhaol iawn am y gwaith y mae ein hathrawon yn ei wneud o ddydd i ddydd, gwaith y mae arolygiaeth Estyn hefyd yn ein hannog i roi sylw iddo.

Mae'n hynod o bwysig sicrhau bod ansawdd yr addysgu a'r dysgu mor uchel â phosibl. Mae ein hawl genedlaethol ar gyfer dysgu proffesiynol yn chwarae rhan gwbl sylfaenol yn sicrhau bod addysgwyr ledled Cymru yn gallu manteisio ar ddysgu proffesiynol o ansawdd uchel drwy gydol eu gyrfa. Fel rhan o'r gwaith i wreiddio'r hawl honno, rydym yn cyflwyno proses ddilysu newydd a fydd yn sicrhau yn gynyddol fod yr holl adnoddau sydd ar gael o'r safon uchaf posibl. Mae llawer o gymorth ac adnoddau ar gael i athrawon nodi eu hanghenion hyfforddi yn unol â'r safonau proffesiynol fel gweithwyr proffesiynol. Nid ansawdd yr adnodd yw'r her yn fy marn i; weithiau mae'n ymwneud â llywiadwyedd—sut yr ewch chi ati i ddod o hyd iddo, mewn ffordd—lle gallai athrawon sy'n brin iawn o amser ystyried bod hynny'n heriol. Felly, mae gwaith eisoes ar y gweill mewn perthynas â hynny. Ac rwy'n siŵr y bydd yn gwybod am y maes dysgu proffesiynol newydd ar Hwb sydd â'r nod o ddod â hynny i gyd at ei gilydd i'w gwneud yn haws i athrawon ddod o hyd iddo. Rydym wedi ymrwymo'n llwyr i sicrhau bod yna adnoddau digonol ar gyfer datblygu athrawon, a datblygu addysgwyr yn fwy eang, ac fe fydd yn gwybod bod gennym gyllid pwrpasol a ddarparwn i ysgolion a hefyd amser i addysgwyr ymgysylltu â chyfleoedd dysgu proffesiynol, gan gynnwys diwrnod hyfforddiant mewn swydd dysgu proffesiynol cenedlaethol ychwanegol, a chyllid ar ei gyfer.

Gofal Plant trwy Gyfrwng y Gymraeg
Welsh-medium Childcare

6. Sut mae’r Llywodraeth yn cefnogi darpariaeth gofal plant trwy gyfrwng y Gymraeg? OQ60164

6. How is the Government supporting Welsh-medium childcare provision? OQ60164

Mae ein cynllun gweithredu 'Cymraeg 2050' yn amlinellu ein hymrwymiad i ehangu darpariaeth feithrin cyfrwng Cymraeg. Rŷn ni'n parhau i weithio yn agos gyda'r Mudiad Meithrin a phartneriaid eraill i dyfu'r sector gofal plant cyfrwng Cymraeg, gan fuddsoddi yn y gweithlu ac adeiladu lleoliadau newydd ymhob rhan o Gymru.

Our 'Cymraeg 2050' action plan sets out our commitment to expanding Welsh-medium nursery provision. We continue to work closely with Mudiad Meithrin and other partners to grow the Welsh-medium childcare sector, investing in the workforce and in building new settings in all parts of Wales.

Diolch yn fawr iawn am yr ateb. Yr wythnos diwethaf, cyflwynodd Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol Cymru ein cynllun i drawsnewid gofal plant a darpariaeth blynyddoedd cynnar ar draws Cymru. Un elfen o'r adroddiad yw darpariaeth cyfrwng Cymraeg a'i bod yn parhau i fod yn brin iawn dros y wlad. Mae ehangu gofal plant cyfrwng Cymraeg yn hanfodol er mwyn cyrraedd dyhead 'Cymraeg 2050'. Mae'r ystadegau yn glir: yn genedlaethol, dim ond 15 y cant o leoliadau sy'n darparu trwy gyfrwng y Gymraeg, a dim ond 10 y cant sy'n cynnig gofal dwyieithog. Mae gennym loteri ar gyfer mynediad dros y wlad at ofal cyfrwng Gymraeg, a does dim dewis gan rai rhieni ond defnyddio darpariaeth Saesneg. Dwi'n siŵr y byddech yn cytuno bod hyn yn gwbl annerbyniol. Dwi'n gobeithio y byddwch yn derbyn yr adroddiad a'r ymateb i'r argymhellion. Ond, sut ydych chi am wella darpariaeth i blant drwy gyfrwng y Gymraeg a hefyd dynnu sylw at y mater hwn?

Thank you for that response. Last week, the Welsh Liberal Democrats introduced our plan to transform childcare and early years' provision across Wales. One element of the report is Welsh-medium provision, which continues to be scarce across the country. Expanding Welsh-medium childcare is crucial in order to reach the aspirations of 'Cymraeg 2050'. The statistics are clear: nationally, only 15 per cent of settings provide through the medium of Welsh, and only 10 per cent offer bilingual care. We have a postcode lottery for Welsh-medium access across the country, and some parents have no choice but to use English-medium provision. I'm sure that you would agree that this is entirely unacceptable. I hope that you would accept our report and respond to its recommendations. But, how are you going to improve provision for children through the medium of Welsh and also highlight the issue?

14:55

Wel, byddai gennyf ddiddordeb mewn darllen yr adroddiad. Rwy'n rhannu, wrth gwrs, y flaenoriaeth y mae'r Aelod yn ei gosod ar bwysigrwydd hyn, am resymau y byddem ni'n eu rhannu ar y cyd, o ran ein huchelgais at yr iaith a hefyd ddarpariaeth i’n plant a’n pobl ifanc ni.

Ar ôl cyrraedd y targed blaenorol o 40 grŵp newydd yn y tair blynedd cyntaf, er gwaethaf COVID, mae’r rhaglen Sefydlu a Symud yn awr yn gweithredu i sefydlu 60 lleoliad yn ystod y Senedd hon. Agorwyd 17 lleoliad cyfrwng Cymraeg yn ystod 2022-23 o dan frand, os hoffwch chi, y rhaglen Sefydlu a Symud.

Ers 2022, mae cyllid ychwanegol o jest dan £4 miliwn wedi’i ddyrannu i Cwlwm dros dair blynedd, i ychwanegu at hyfforddiant yn y Gymraeg, gan gynnwys y gweithlu, ac ati. Felly, mae hynny’n cyfrannu tuag at y nod o staffio ychwanegol, ac mae rhyw £70 miliwn o gyfalaf penodol wedi’i ddyrannu i’r sector yng Nghymru, gyda phwyslais arbennig ar gryfhau darpariaeth cyfrwng Cymraeg.

Y mis hwn, roedd 13,000 o blant yn cael mynediad i’r cynnig gofal plant yng Nghymru. O’r rhain, roedd jest dan 3,000, rhyw 22 y cant, yn cael y gwasanaeth hwnnw drwy gyfrwng y Gymraeg.

Well, I'd be very interested to read the report. I share the priority that the Member has placed on the importance of this, for reasons that we would both share in terms of our ambitions for the language and for the provision for our children and young people.

After reaching the previous target of 40 new groups in the first three years, despite COVID, the Set Up and Succeed programme is now moving on to establishing 60 settings during this Senedd. Seventeen settings through the medium of Welsh were opened during 2022-23 under the brand of the Set Up and Succeed programme.

Since 2022, additional funding of just under £4 million has been allocated to Cwlwm over three years to add to the training through the medium of Welsh, as well as for the workforce and so on. That contributes towards the aim of additional staffing, and £70 million-worth of capital has been allocated to the sector in Wales, with a particular emphasis on strengthening provision through the medium of Welsh.

Earlier this month, 13,000 children had access to the childcare offer in Wales and, of these, just under 3,000, or 22 per cent, received that through the medium of Welsh.

While we are on the subject of the Welsh language, I would like to congratulate staff and pupils at Ysgol y Llys in Prestatyn and friends of the cylch on their recent successes in the Mudiad Meithrin awards, which recently carried out its seventh awards ceremony. The whole objective, as you will be aware, of Mudiad Meithrin is to create new Welsh speakers by supporting children and their families to access various education, play and childcare services. So, will you welcome the congratulations for Ysgol y Llys in Prestatyn and friends of the cylch for the fantastic work work that they do to promote the Welsh language and enhance the Welsh language experience in Denbighshire?

Gan ein bod ar bwnc y Gymraeg, hoffwn longyfarch staff a disgyblion Ysgol y Llys ym Mhrestatyn a chyfeillion y cylch meithrin ar eu llwyddiannau diweddar yng ngwobrau'r Mudiad Meithrin, a gynhaliodd ei seithfed seremoni wobrwyo yn ddiweddar. Holl amcan y Mudiad Meithrin, fel y gwyddoch, yw creu siaradwyr Cymraeg newydd drwy gynorthwyo plant a'u teuluoedd i gael mynediad at wasanaethau addysg, chwarae a gofal plant amrywiol. Felly, a wnewch chi groesawu'r llongyfarchiadau i Ysgol y Llys ym Mhrestatyn a chyfeillion y cylch meithrin am y gwaith gwych y maent yn ei wneud ar hyrwyddo'r Gymraeg a gwella profiad o'r Gymraeg yn sir Ddinbych?

Well, I'm sure that they will be very delighted with the fact that you have raised that in the Chamber today—the support that you are providing to your local school—and I'm very happy to endorse and share that. Congratulations to them.

Wel, rwy'n siŵr y byddant wrth eu bodd gyda'r ffaith eich bod wedi rhoi sylw i hynny yn y Siambr heddiw—y gefnogaeth rydych chi'n ei rhoi i'ch ysgol leol—ac rwy'n hapus iawn i gefnogi a rhannu hynny. Llongyfarchiadau iddynt.

I recently attended the opening of Wibli Wobli nursery, based in Rogerstone in my constituency. Founded by Natasha Baker, it is the very first Welsh language day care nursery in Newport. It's a wonderful nursery, and children who are attending do not need to speak any Welsh to join, but will soon gain all the benefits of learning Welsh at a young age. With a shortage of Welsh-speaking childcare professionals, one of the issues that has been raised with me is around the time that it takes to train. I understand that it takes about 18 months to qualify. Is this something that the Welsh Government could look at—whether it is possible to implement some kind of fast-track system? And how can the Welsh Government help support the already qualified childcare professionals who may wish to move across to Welsh-medium provision?

Yn ddiweddar, mynychais agoriad meithrinfa Wibli Wobli, sydd wedi'i lleoli yn Nhŷ-du yn fy etholaeth. Fe'i sefydlwyd gan Natasha Baker, a dyma'r feithrinfa gofal dydd Gymraeg gyntaf yng Nghasnewydd. Mae'n feithrinfa wych, ac nid oes angen i blant sy'n mynychu siarad unrhyw Gymraeg i ymuno, ond yn fuan byddant yn elwa o holl fanteision dysgu Cymraeg yn ifanc. Gyda phrinder gweithwyr gofal plant proffesiynol sy'n siarad Cymraeg, un o'r materion a gafodd eu dwyn i fy sylw yw'r amser y mae'n ei gymryd i hyfforddi. Rwy'n deall ei bod yn cymryd tua 18 mis i fod yn gymwys. A yw hyn yn rhywbeth y gallai Llywodraeth Cymru edrych arno—a oes modd gweithredu rhyw fath o system llwybr cyflym? A sut y gall Llywodraeth Cymru helpu i gefnogi'r gweithwyr gofal plant proffesiynol sydd eisoes â chymwysterau a allai fod eisiau newid i ddarpariaeth cyfrwng Cymraeg?

Well, congratulations to Wibli Wobli, and I'm pleased to hear them acknowledged in the Chamber as well. I think that the Member makes an important point about making every effort that we can to ensure that those who wish to be able to practise and provide important services through the medium of Welsh face as few barriers as possible to do that. I will be very happy to consider further with officials whether there is more that we can do in terms of the time frames that the Member referred to in order to maximise the opportunities for people to do that.FootnoteLink

Wel, llongyfarchiadau i Wibli Wobli, ac rwy'n falch o'u clywed yn cael eu cydnabod yn y Siambr hefyd. Credaf fod yr Aelod yn gwneud pwynt pwysig ynglŷn â gwneud pob ymdrech i sicrhau bod y rhai sy'n dymuno gallu ymarfer a darparu gwasanaethau pwysig drwy gyfrwng y Gymraeg yn wynebu cyn lleied o rwystrau â phosibl i wneud hynny. Byddaf yn hapus iawn i ystyried ymhellach gyda swyddogion a oes mwy y gallwn ei wneud ynghylch y fframiau amser y cyfeiriodd yr Aelod atynt er mwyn gwneud y mwyaf o'r cyfleoedd i bobl wneud hynny.FootnoteLink

Prentisiaethau Gradd
Degree Apprenticeships

7. A wnaiff y Gweinidog roi diweddariad ar y nifer sy'n manteisio ar brentisiaethau gradd? OQ60153

7. Will the Minister provide an update on the uptake of degree apprenticeships? OQ60153

Higher level apprenticeships, as are all other apprenticeships, are the policy responsibility of the Minister for Economy, but we work closely, of course, across portfolios. The latest figures show increases in starts from academic years 2019 to 2022, and we recently launched a new rail engineering degree apprenticeship, which people will be starting from this January.

Cyfrifoldeb polisi Gweinidog yr Economi yw prentisiaethau lefel uwch, fel pob prentisiaeth arall, ond rydym yn gweithio'n agos ar draws y meysydd portffolio wrth gwrs. Mae'r ffigurau diweddaraf yn dangos cynnydd yn y nifer a ddechreuodd ym mlynyddoedd academaidd 2019 i 2022, ac yn ddiweddar fe wnaethom lansio gradd-brentisiaeth newydd mewn peirianneg rheilffyrdd y bydd pobl yn dechrau arni o fis Ionawr eleni.

I would like to thank the Minister for his answer. We all know that going to university isn't for everybody. I recently visited a school in my constituency, and I talked to them there about the importance of going to do degrees—or degree apprenticeships as another option for them to enter the world of work. So, I would be very interested to know what work the Welsh Government is doing with our school leavers to make sure that they know of the range of options that are available to them when they go and leave school, so that they can enter degrees or degree apprenticeships where they can actually learn while working.

Hoffwn ddiolch i'r Gweinidog am ei ateb. Rydym i gyd yn gwybod nad yw mynd i'r brifysgol yn addas i bawb. Yn ddiweddar, ymwelais ag ysgol yn fy etholaeth, a siaradais â nhw yno am bwysigrwydd mynd i wneud graddau—neu radd-brentisiaethau fel opsiwn arall iddynt allu dechrau ym myd gwaith. Felly, byddai gennyf ddiddordeb mawr mewn gwybod pa waith y mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn ei wneud gyda rhai sy'n gadael ysgol i sicrhau eu bod yn gwybod am yr ystod o opsiynau sydd ar gael iddynt pan fyddant yn gadael ysgol, fel y gallant wneud graddau neu radd-brentisiaethau lle gallant ddysgu wrth weithio.

15:00

I think the Member makes a very important point. He will, I'm sure, have read the report of Hefin David in relation to transitions from education to employment, which is very much on a similar theme. I know he shares that view and I feel very strongly about that. We have to make sure that our young people are getting the best possible, tailored, bespoke individual advice that relates to their personal circumstances and their personal ambitions. We should absolutely be making it clear that a degree apprenticeship is a very attractive opportunity for many young people. He will know we're consolidating the expansion of degree apprenticeships into new sectors and increasing existing pathways to meet the programme for government commitment that we have. We have prioritised apprenticeship investment into those sectors that we feel will do most to support economic growth and community cohesion, so net zero and the foundation economy are a part of the underlying themes for some of those. And he will know that in addition to the work on the rail apprenticeship, we are currently devising the apprenticeship in the construction sector. So, I hope that will provide opportunities for many more of his constituents and mine and indeed others.

Credaf fod yr Aelod yn gwneud pwynt pwysig iawn. Fe fydd, rwy'n siŵr, wedi darllen adroddiad Hefin David mewn perthynas â phontio o addysg i gyflogaeth, ar thema debyg iawn. Rwy'n gwybod ei fod yn rhannu'r farn honno ac rwy'n teimlo'n gryf iawn am hynny. Mae'n rhaid inni sicrhau bod ein pobl ifanc yn cael y cyngor unigol, pwrpasol gorau posibl wedi'i deilwra i ymwneud â'u hamgylchiadau personol a'u huchelgeisiau personol. Dylem ei gwneud yn gwbl glir fod gradd-brentisiaeth yn gyfle deniadol iawn i lawer o bobl ifanc. Bydd yn gwybod ein bod yn cryfhau'r gwaith o ehangu gradd-brentisiaethau i sectorau newydd ac yn cynyddu llwybrau presennol i gyflawni'r ymrwymiad sydd gennym yn y rhaglen lywodraethu. Rydym wedi blaenoriaethu buddsoddiad mewn prentisiaethau yn y sectorau y teimlwn y byddant yn gwneud y mwyaf i gefnogi twf economaidd a chydlyniant cymunedol, felly mae sero net a'r economi sylfaenol yn rhan o'r themâu sylfaenol ar gyfer rhai o'r rheini. Ac fe fydd yn gwybod, yn ogystal â'r gwaith ar brentisiaeth rheilffyrdd, ein bod ar hyn o bryd yn llunio'r brentisiaeth yn y sector adeiladu. Felly, rwy'n gobeithio y bydd hynny'n rhoi cyfleoedd i lawer mwy o'i etholwyr a fy etholwyr innau ac eraill.

Llythrennedd Cefnforol
Ocean Literacy

8. Pa gamau y mae'r Gweinidog yn eu cymryd i wreiddio egwyddorion llythrennedd cefnforol mewn addysg? OQ60140

8. What steps is the Minister taking to embed the principles of ocean literacy in education? OQ60140

Learning about the environment is mandatory in the Curriculum for Wales. There are opportunities within the curriculum for schools to include learning about ocean literacy, sustainability and the impact of human action on the environment in their curriculum.

Mae dysgu am yr amgylchedd yn orfodol yn y Cwricwlwm i Gymru. Mae cyfleoedd o fewn y cwricwlwm i ysgolion gynnwys dysgu am lythrennedd cefnforol, cynaliadwyedd ac effaith gweithredoedd dynol ar yr amgylchedd yn eu cwricwlwm.

Thank you. So, an ocean literate person understands the essential principles and fundamental concepts about the ocean. They can communicate about the ocean in a meaningful way and they are able to make informed and responsible decisions regarding the ocean and its resources. Now, a project worked on by the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs, the Scottish Government and Natural Resources Wales found that knowledge gaps exist among young people for several marine terms. For example, 'eutrophication', 'the UN decade of ocean science', 'blue carbon', 'natural capital', 'carbon sequestration', 'ocean literacy', 'marine citizenship', 'ocean acidification', 'ecosystem services' and 'nature-based solutions' are not well understood. Less than 50 per cent of respondents understood each of those terms. So, 43 per cent of people mostly get their information about the ocean from television or radio and the news. We can do better. The National Marine Educators Association and the United Nations Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organization have excellent resources available online for schools. So, what steps could you take to improve ocean literacy throughout the curriculum?

Diolch. Felly, mae person sydd â llythrennedd cefnforol yn deall yr egwyddorion hanfodol a'r cysyniadau sylfaenol am y cefnfor. Gallant gyfathrebu am y cefnfor mewn ffordd ystyrlon a gallant wneud penderfyniadau gwybodus a chyfrifol ynghylch y cefnfor a'i adnoddau. Nawr, fe wnaeth prosiect y gweithiodd Adran yr Amgylchedd, Bwyd a Materion Gwledig, Llywodraeth yr Alban a Cyfoeth Naturiol Cymru arno ganfod bod bylchau gwybodaeth ymhlith pobl ifanc ynghylch sawl term morol. Er enghraifft, nid yw 'ewtroffeiddio', 'degawd gwyddorau'r môr y Cenhedloedd Unedig', 'carbon glas', 'cyfalaf naturiol', 'atafaelu carbon', 'llythrennedd cefnforol', 'dinasyddiaeth forol', 'asideiddio'r cefnfor', 'gwasanaethau ecosystemau' a 'datrysiadau seiliedig ar natur' wedi eu deall yn dda. Roedd llai na 50 y cant o'r ymatebwyr yn deall pob un o'r termau hynny. Felly, mae 43 y cant o bobl yn cael eu gwybodaeth am y cefnfor oddi ar y teledu neu'r radio a'r newyddion yn bennaf. Gallwn wneud yn well. Mae gan y Gymdeithas Genedlaethol Addysgwyr Morol a Sefydliad Addysg, Gwyddoniaeth a Diwylliant y Cenhedloedd Unedig adnoddau rhagorol ar-lein i ysgolion. Felly, pa gamau y gallech eu cymryd i wella llythrennedd cefnforol ar draws y cwricwlwm?

Well, I do recognise that, certainly in the past, the challenges that the Member has articulated today have been very real. But I do feel that the tide is turning. I'm sure that the Member will know that a working group of the Wales Coasts and Seas Partnership, which is led by Natural Resources Wales, to which she referred in her question, is drafting an ocean literacy strategy to connect people with the marine environment and improve its management and resilience. And the action areas in the strategy, importantly, include improving knowledge and skills and embedding ocean literacy into education. She will also, perhaps, be aware that eco-schools have developed a suite of resources titled 'Be the Wave', which covers ocean and seas. Additionally, my officials are currently working with the Wales Coastal Monitoring Centre to publish a suite of resources on climate change and its coastal impact. In her own part of Wales, the GwE consortia are working with BP and with EnBW, who are developing offshore windfarms to support schools with information in relation to subjects related to fixed offshore wind.

Wel, rwy'n cydnabod, yn sicr yn y gorffennol, fod yr heriau y mae'r Aelod wedi'u mynegi heddiw wedi bod yn real iawn. Ond rwy'n teimlo bod y llanw'n troi. Rwy'n siŵr y bydd yr Aelod yn gwybod bod gweithgor o Bartneriaeth Moroedd ac Arfordiroedd Cymru, a arweinir gan Cyfoeth Naturiol Cymru, y cyfeiriodd ato yn ei chwestiwn, yn drafftio strategaeth llythrennedd cefnforol i gysylltu pobl â'r amgylchedd morol a gwella ei reolaeth a'i gydnerthedd. Ac yn bwysig, mae'r meysydd gweithredu yn y strategaeth yn cynnwys gwella gwybodaeth a sgiliau ac ymgorffori llythrennedd cefnforol mewn addysg. Fe fydd hi hefyd, efallai, yn ymwybodol fod eco-ysgolion wedi datblygu cyfres o adnoddau o'r enw 'Ar Frig y Don', sy'n ymdrin â chefnforoedd a moroedd. Yn ogystal, mae fy swyddogion yn gweithio gyda Chanolfan Monitro Arfordirol Cymru ar hyn o bryd i gyhoeddi cyfres o adnoddau ar newid hinsawdd a'i effaith arfordirol. Yn ei rhan hi o Gymru, mae consortia GwE yn gweithio gyda BP a gyda EnBW, sy'n datblygu ffermydd gwynt ar y môr, i gefnogi ysgolion â gwybodaeth am bynciau sy'n gysylltiedig â gwynt sefydlog ar y môr.

Dysgu Proffesiynol ar gyfer Athrawon
Professional Learning for Teachers

9. Sut y mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn cefnogi athrawon i fanteisio ar gyfleoedd ar gyfer dysgu proffesiynol o ansawdd uchel? OQ60145

9. How is the Welsh Government supporting teachers to access opportunities for high-quality professional learning? OQ60145

Ensuring high-quality teaching through career-long professional learning is integral to our vision for education in Wales. I recently announced a new national endorsement process to quality-assure professional learning provision for the education workforce. Professor Ken Jones will lead this work, supported by a panel of experts and practitioners.

Mae sicrhau addysgu o ansawdd uchel drwy ddysgu proffesiynol gydol gyrfa yn rhan annatod o'n gweledigaeth ar gyfer addysg yng Nghymru. Yn ddiweddar, cyhoeddais broses gymeradwyo genedlaethol newydd i sicrhau ansawdd darpariaeth dysgu proffesiynol ar gyfer y gweithlu addysg. Yr Athro Ken Jones fydd yn arwain y gwaith hwn, gyda chymorth panel o arbenigwyr ac addysgwyr.

Thank you for that answer, Minister. I welcome your statement of 14 September and the work of the soon-to-be-established national endorsement panel. Do you agree with me, Minister, that high-quality professional learning is crucially important in supporting the roll-out of the new curriculum, allowing teachers to continually benefit from new developments and approaches in the field of education, and also allowing the sharing of best practice through Hwb?

Diolch am yr ateb hwnnw, Weinidog. Rwy'n croesawu eich datganiad ar 14 Medi a gwaith y panel cymeradwyo cenedlaethol sydd i'w sefydlu cyn bo hir. A ydych chi'n cytuno â mi, Weinidog, fod dysgu proffesiynol o ansawdd uchel yn hanfodol bwysig i gefnogi'r broses o gyflwyno'r cwricwlwm newydd, gan ganiatáu i athrawon elwa'n barhaus ar ddatblygiadau a dulliau newydd ym maes addysg, a hefyd i ganiatáu rhannu arferion gorau drwy Hwb?

15:05

I do share that view with some diffidence, given her professional background and her knowledge of this at first-hand. But the professional learning entitlement, which is now a little over a year old, I think is already playing an important role, really, on that journey to making sure that all practitioners have access to quality PL and so that they can make sure that their professional development needs are met. I think the twin challenges that we are trying to resolve, partly through the work that Professor Jones and the other experts will help us with, are, on the one hand, navigability, to make sure that the huge content library that exists can be easily navigated so that practitioners who are short of time can find what they need to find simply and in a way that is curated helpfully for them. Our creation of the new space on Hwb is the beginning of that process. But, secondly, there's that idea of assurance, so that every resource available via those pages on Hwb ultimately are ones in which practitioners can have confidence as having been reviewed by practitioners or by other experts and given the seal of their blessing. So, it's an exciting new stage, I think, in our professional learning journey in Wales, driven by that entitlement, which I should also say is available to teaching assistants in the same way that it is to teachers, which is also a new development.

Rwy'n rhannu'r farn honno gydag ychydig o wyleidd-dra, o ystyried ei chefndir proffesiynol a'i gwybodaeth bersonol am hyn. Ond credaf fod yr hawl i ddysgu proffesiynol, sydd ychydig dros flwydd oed erbyn hyn, eisoes yn chwarae rhan bwysig ar y daith honno i sicrhau bod gan bob addysgwr fynediad at ddysgu proffesiynol o safon ac fel y gallant sicrhau bod eu hanghenion datblygu proffesiynol yn cael eu diwallu. Rwy'n credu mai'r heriau deublyg yr ydym yn ceisio eu datrys, yn rhannol drwy'r gwaith y bydd yr Athro Jones a'r arbenigwyr eraill yn ein helpu gydag ef, yw llywiadwyedd ar y naill law, i sicrhau y gellir llywio'n hawdd drwy'r llyfrgell enfawr o gynnwys sy'n bodoli fel y gall addysgwyr sy'n brin o amser ddod o hyd i'r hyn y maent angen dod o hyd iddo yn syml ac mewn ffordd sy'n cael ei churadu'n ddefnyddiol ar eu cyfer. Creu'r gofod newydd ar Hwb yw dechrau'r broses honno. Ond yn ail, mae'r syniad o sicrwydd, fel bod pob adnodd sydd ar gael drwy'r tudalennau ar Hwb yn y pen draw yn rhai lle gall addysgwyr fod yn hyderus ynddynt fel rhai sydd wedi cael eu hadolygu gan addysgwyr neu gan arbenigwyr eraill sydd wedi rhoi eu sêl bendith iddynt. Felly, rwy'n credu ei fod yn gam newydd cyffrous ar ein taith dysgu proffesiynol yng Nghymru, wedi'i sbarduno gan yr hawl honno, y dylwn ddweud hefyd ei fod ar gael i gynorthwywyr addysgu yn yr un ffordd ag y mae i athrawon, sydd hefyd yn ddatblygiad newydd.

Yn olaf, cwestiwn 10, Adam Price.

Finally, question 10, Adam Price.

Sefydliadau Addysg Uwch
Higher Education Institutions

10. Pa drafodaethau diweddar mae'r Gweinidog wedi cael gyda sefydliadau addysg uwch ynghylch eu cynaladwyedd ariannol? OQ60159

10. What recent discussions has the Minister had with higher education institutions regarding their financial sustainability? OQ60159

Dros fisoedd yr haf, rwyf wedi cael sgyrsiau gyda chadeiryddion ac arweinwyr sefydliadau addysg uwch, a gyda Chyngor Cyllido Addysg Uwch Cymru, am sefydlogrwydd ariannol y sector addysg uwch yng Nghymru. Mae swyddogion a Gweinidogion yn parhau i gael trafodaethau ar y mater pwysig iawn hwn.

Over the summer months, I have had conversations with higher education institution leaders and chairs, and with the Higher Education Funding Council for Wales, about the financial stability of the higher education sector in Wales. Discussions are ongoing with officials and Ministers on this very important issue.

Rwy'n cael ar ddeall, mewn cyfarfod diweddar o'r sector yr oeddech chi, Gweinidog, yn bresennol ynddo, mi oedd nifer o'r sefydliadau oedd yno wedi dweud eu bod nhw yn ystyried y posibilrwydd o uno mewn ymateb i'r sefyllfa ariannol heriol. Ydych chi'n gallu cadarnhau bod y wybodaeth honno'n gywir a beth yw safbwynt y Llywodraeth am uniadau pellach o fewn y sector addysg uwch yng Nghymru?

I understand that, at a recent meeting of the sector that you, Minister, were present at, a number of the institutions represented there said that they were considering the possibility of merging in response to the challenging financial situation. Can you confirm that that information and impression was correct and what is the Government's stance when it comes to further mergers in the sector in Wales?

Does neb wedi rhoi'r cynnig hwnnw i fi. Mae trafodaethau, wrth gwrs, yn digwydd yn sgil y comisiwn addysg drydyddol ac ymchwil ar sut y gall darparwyr o fewn y sector ôl-16 gydweithio yn well gyda'i gilydd mewn amryw o ffyrdd. Felly, mae hynny'n rhan o'r meddylfryd sydd wrth wraidd y diwygiadau hynny i sicrhau, er budd y dysgwr, fod llawer mwy o gydweithio a phartneriaethau yn digwydd ar draws y sector.

No-one's put that proposal to me. Discussions, of course, are ongoing in light of the tertiary education and research commission on how providers within the post-16 sector can collaborate more effectively in many different ways. That is part of the mindset at the heart of those reforms to ensure, for the benefit of learners, that there is far more collaboration and partnership across the sector.

Diolch i'r Gweinidog am y sesiwn yna.

I thank the Minister for that session.

3. Cwestiynau Amserol
3. Topical Questions

Eitem 3, felly, yw'r cwestiynau amserol. Mae dau gwestiwn wedi eu derbyn heddiw, a'r cyntaf o'r rheini gan Jack Sargeant.

Item 3 is the topical questions. There were two questions received today. The first is from Jack Sargeant.

Storm Babet
Storm Babet

1. A wnaiff y Gweinidog ddatganiad am sut y bydd Llywodraeth Cymru yn gweithio gyda phartneriaid i gefnogi cymunedau yn dilyn effaith Storm Babet? TQ887

1. Will the Minister make a statement on how the Welsh Government will work with partners to support communities following the impact of Storm Babet? TQ887

I know the devastation flooding can cause to communities. The full detail of storm Babet's impact on communities in Wales is still emerging, but, once known, I will issue a written statement to Members, as committed by the Trefnydd during yesterday's Plenary business questions.

Rwy'n gwybod am y difrod y gall llifogydd ei achosi i gymunedau. Mae'r manylion llawn am effaith storm Babet ar gymunedau yng Nghymru yn dal i ddod yn amlwg, ond pan fyddant yn hysbys, byddaf yn cyhoeddi datganiad ysgrifenedig i'r Aelodau, fel yr ymrwymodd y Trefnydd yn ystod cwestiynau busnes y Cyfarfod Llawn ddoe.

I thank the Minister for that answer and for the commitment of the written statement in due course. Minister, you'll be aware, over the weekend, the areas of Sandycroft, Mancot, Broughton, Pen-y-ffordd and surrounding communities were badly impacted by storm Babet. This is not the first time that houses in these communities were flooded. Following previous incidents in 2021, in particular, I produced a report that called for a number of sensible steps to mitigate the possibility of future flooding. Now, whilst work has taken place, it’s clear progress has not been quick enough. Responsibility lies with the local authority, with Natural Resources Wales, with Welsh Water and the utility companies, but we do need additional resources to be made available to give householders some certainty about the future. Minister, we also need joined-up working from the agencies I’ve listed responsible. How can you use your office in the ministry for climate change to ensure this happens?

Diolch i'r Gweinidog am yr ateb hwnnw ac am ymrwymo i'r datganiad ysgrifenedig maes o law. Weinidog, fe fyddwch yn ymwybodol, dros y penwythnos, fod ardaloedd Sandycroft, Mancot, Brychdyn, Pen-y-ffordd a'r cymunedau cyfagos wedi cael eu heffeithio'n wael gan storm Babet. Nid dyma'r tro cyntaf i dai yn y cymunedau hyn ddioddef llifogydd. Yn dilyn digwyddiadau blaenorol yn 2021, yn fwyaf arbennig, lluniais adroddiad a oedd yn galw am nifer o gamau synhwyrol i liniaru'r posibilrwydd o lifogydd yn y dyfodol. Nawr, er bod gwaith wedi digwydd, mae'n amlwg na fu cynnydd digon cyflym. Yr awdurdod lleol sy'n gyfrifol, ynghyd â Cyfoeth Naturiol Cymru, Dŵr Cymru a'r cwmnïau cyfleustodau, ond mae angen adnoddau ychwanegol arnom i roi rhywfaint o sicrwydd i ddeiliaid tai am y dyfodol. Weinidog, mae angen hefyd inni gael gweithio cydgysylltiedig gan yr asiantaethau a restrais fel y rhai cyfrifol. Sut y gallwch chi ddefnyddio eich swydd yn y weinyddiaeth newid hinsawdd i sicrhau bod hyn yn digwydd?

15:10

Diolch, Jack Sargeant, for that question. We’re obviously working very closely with NRW, with the water companies, with the UK Government, actually, and with local authorities in their role as lead local flood authorities to move to both flood and coastal erosion defence and also mitigation measures. As I know Jack Sargeant knows, the risk management authority—or the local council, as it’s more commonly known by people in the area—needs to put forward schemes to propose them for funding. I know that the local council there has had a number of schemes in the pipeline between 2010 and 2018, and they have applied for a couple of small schemes since then, but we will work with them to make sure that they have got the right pipeline in place for those schemes coming forward.

I also want to highlight that in terms of what the community can do to help itself, Natural Resources Wales does work with local communities to get flood resilience forums going and to make sure that people are aware of how to listen for flood warnings if they’re in a flood-risk area, and then what to do to make sure that they stay out of harm.

I just want to express my deepest sympathy for the families of those who lost their lives in both England and Scotland over the weekend, and indeed to express my gratitude for the large number of public service staff who worked around the clock during the storms in order to try and keep as many people safe as they possibly could.

Diolch am y cwestiwn, Jack Sargeant. Rydym yn amlwg yn gweithio'n agos iawn gydag CNC, gyda'r cwmnïau dŵr, gyda Llywodraeth y DU a chydag awdurdodau lleol yn eu rôl fel awdurdodau llifogydd arweiniol lleol i symud at amddiffyn rhag llifogydd ac erydu arfordirol ac at fesurau lliniaru hefyd. Fel y gwn fod Jack Sargeant yn gwybod, mae angen i'r awdurdod rheoli risg—neu'r cyngor lleol, fel y mae'n cael ei adnabod yn fwy cyffredinol gan bobl yn yr ardal—gyflwyno cynlluniau ar gyfer gwneud ceisiadau am gyllid. Gwn fod nifer o gynlluniau ar y gweill gan y cyngor lleol yno rhwng 2010 a 2018, ac maent wedi gwneud cais am un neu ddau o gynlluniau bach ers hynny, ond byddwn yn gweithio gyda nhw i sicrhau bod ganddynt y llwybrau cywir ar gyfer y cynlluniau sy'n cael eu cyflwyno.

O ran yr hyn y gall y gymuned ei wneud i helpu ei hun, rwyf am nodi bod Cyfoeth Naturiol Cymru yn gweithio gyda chymunedau lleol i ddechrau fforymau cydnerthedd llifogydd a sicrhau bod pobl yn ymwybodol o sut i wrando am rybuddion llifogydd os ydynt mewn ardal lle ceir perygl o lifogydd, a beth i'w wneud i sicrhau eu bod yn cadw'n ddiogel.

Rwyf am fynegi fy nghydymdeimlad dwysaf â theuluoedd y rhai a gollodd eu bywydau yn Lloegr a'r Alban dros y penwythnos, ac yn wir i fynegi fy niolch am y nifer fawr o staff gwasanaethau cyhoeddus a weithiodd ddydd a nos yn ystod y stormydd er mwyn ceisio cadw cymaint o bobl ag y gallent yn ddiogel.

You’ll be aware, Llywydd, that I actually tabled an emergency question yesterday on this matter that was refused, and I am thinking, if storm Babet, with all the terrible deaths and the injuries and everything and the fact that it was just devastating—. What does merit an emergency question? Now, lives, as we mentioned, were lost and my thoughts and prayers go out to all of those families involved. Trains were cancelled, the A483 in Powys, the A55 in Flintshire and other roads were impassable. The fire service received a staggering number of calls. Now, in Llandudno, which of course has low-lying sea levels, and compounded with a high tide, actually—. Three areas in my constituency of Llandudno—well, just in the Llandudno area—were seriously affected: residents trapped, others evacuated, many fighting to hold back water with towels, contradictory information about sandbags, no joined-up plan on the ground, and a fire officer informing me that he couldn’t get hold of Conwy County Borough Council and Welsh Water. What struck me most, however, was the fact that whilst I was in touch with the council leader at Conwy, other rescue services were out and about doing their very best, but when speaking to North Wales Police and the fire service, there didn’t seem to be an apparent plan in place. There was a definite information and communication vacuum. Now, I’ve already taken it upon myself to raise concerns with the council leader, with the view of holding a virtual joined-up meeting of all the multi-agency teams who you would expect to be working in such situations very closely indeed.

So, you’ve previously stated, Minister, that there is this guidance, there are plans in place, so in reiterating the question from Jack Sargeant: what steps are you taking to work with all partner agencies to ensure that there is better joined-up thinking and a plan in place, a strategic approach, when such disasters happen, for now, or next time, or indeed any future storms, and also how we as Members can be kept fully informed correctly through the day? Because we heard lots of rumours the pumping station had packed up; it hadn’t packed up, it was overwhelmed. And in 1993—we're all terrified of that scenario happening again, and people are now still contacting me in fear of what they witnessed again on Friday. So, really, I’m just asking again: we need a strategic joined-up plan, all agencies feeding into it, and whatever help you can give, I’d be very grateful. Diolch.

Fe fyddwch yn ymwybodol, Lywydd, fy mod wedi cyflwyno cwestiwn brys ar y mater hwn ddoe a gafodd ei wrthod, ac rwy'n meddwl, os nad yw storm Babet, gyda'r holl farwolaethau ofnadwy a'r anafiadau ac ati, a'r ffaith ei fod mor ddinistriol—. Beth sy'n haeddu cwestiwn brys? Nawr, fe gollwyd bywydau, fel y nodwyd, ac mae fy meddyliau a fy ngweddïau gyda'r teuluoedd hynny. Cafodd trenau eu canslo, nid oedd modd teithio ar yr A483 ym Mhowys, yr A55 yn sir y Fflint a ffyrdd eraill. Cafodd y gwasanaeth tân nifer syfrdanol o alwadau. Nawr, yn Llandudno, lle ceir tir isel wrth gwrs, ac wedi'i waethygu gyda llanw uchel—. Cafodd tair ardal yn fy etholaeth yn Llandudno—wel, yn ardal Llandudno'n unig—eu heffeithio'n ddifrifol: trigolion yn gaeth, eraill wedi gorfod gadael eu heiddo, llawer yn ymladd i gadw dŵr yn ôl â thywelion, gwybodaeth anghyson am fagiau tywod, dim cynllun cydgysylltiedig ar lawr gwlad, a swyddog tân yn fy hysbysu na allai gael gafael ar Gyngor Bwrdeistref Sirol Conwy a Dŵr Cymru. Yr hyn a'm synnodd fwyaf, fodd bynnag, oedd y ffaith, er fy mod mewn cysylltiad ag arweinydd y cyngor yng Nghonwy, fod gwasanaethau achub eraill allan yn gwneud eu gorau glas, ond wrth siarad â Heddlu Gogledd Cymru a'r gwasanaeth tân, nid oedd hi'n ymddangos bod cynllun amlwg ar waith. Yn sicr, roedd yna fwlch o ran gwybodaeth a chyfathrebu. Nawr, rwyf eisoes wedi mynd ati fy hun i fynegi pryderon wrth arweinydd y cyngor, gyda'r bwriad o gynnal cyfarfod cydgysylltiedig rhithwir gyda'r holl dimau amlasiantaeth y byddech yn disgwyl eu bod yn gweithio'n agos iawn mewn sefyllfaoedd o'r fath.

Rydych wedi dweud o'r blaen, Weinidog, fod yna ganllawiau, fod yna gynlluniau ar waith, felly, i ailadrodd y cwestiwn gan Jack Sargeant: pa gamau rydych chi'n eu cymryd i weithio gyda'r holl asiantaethau partner i sicrhau bod meddwl mwy cydgysylltiedig a chynllun ar waith, dull strategol, pan fydd trychinebau o'r fath yn digwydd, ar gyfer nawr, neu'r tro nesaf, neu'n wir unrhyw stormydd yn y dyfodol, a hefyd sut y gallwn ni fel Aelodau gael ein hysbysu'n llawn ac yn gywir drwy gydol y dydd? Oherwydd clywsom lawer o sïon fod yr orsaf bwmpio wedi torri; nid oedd wedi torri, roedd wedi'i gorlethu. Ac ym 1993—rydym i gyd yn ofni bod y sefyllfa honno'n digwydd eto, ac mae pobl yn dal i gysylltu â mi nawr mewn ofn ynglŷn â'r hyn a welsant eto ddydd Gwener. Felly, rwy'n gofyn eto: mae angen cynllun strategol cydgysylltiedig arnom, a'r holl asiantaethau i gyfrannu ato, a buaswn yn ddiolchgar iawn am unrhyw gymorth y gallwch ei roi. Diolch.

15:15

Well, thank you, Janet. As I said, we're still doing the ongoing aftermath investigation, as we always do every time there are severe storms. I just want to make it really clear that nobody in Wales lost their life. I'm very, very sad about the individuals in England and Scotland who did, but I think it's important to be accurate about that. 

We did have a co-ordinated response out. As I say, I'm very grateful to all the blue light responders and NRW staff, Dŵr Cymru staff and Hafren Dyfrdwy staff, all of whom worked all through the storm. A number of staff from the electrical companies also worked through, trying to make sure that services stayed connected. We also had the local resilience fora in operation, and a number of the other pan-Wales organisations. I, myself, was getting situation reports throughout the whole of the incident.

But we can, Llywydd, expect more of these incidents as climate change escalates. It is not going to be possible unless we implement severe net zero climate change mitigation and adaptation plans to do anything about this. And I know the Member is sincere in what she says, but it does not help that her party oppose every single thing that we ever do to try to mitigate climate change. We must keep the temperature of the world down below 1.5 degrees over base, or we will be looking at this kind of thing on a very regular basis. So, absolutely, Llywydd, we need to have the best response once these things are happening, but, if we're to mitigate this, we really must act together and be rather more radical than the Member's party would have you believe. 

Diolch yn fawr, Janet. Fel y dywedais, rydym yn dal i gynnal yr ymchwiliad parhaus i'r ôl-effeithiau, fel rydym bob amser yn ei wneud bob tro y ceir stormydd difrifol. Rwyf am ei gwneud hi'n hollol glir na chollodd neb yng Nghymru eu bywyd. Rwy'n drist iawn am yr unigolion yn Lloegr a'r Alban lle digwyddodd hynny, ond rwy'n credu ei bod yn bwysig bod yn gywir ynglŷn â hynny. 

Fe gawsom ymateb cydgysylltiedig. Fel y dywedaf, rwy'n ddiolchgar iawn i'r holl ymatebwyr golau glas a staff CNC, staff Dŵr Cymru a staff Hafren Dyfrdwy, a fu'n gweithio, bawb ohonynt, drwy gydol y storm. Gweithiodd nifer o staff o'r cwmnïau trydanol drwyddi hefyd, gan geisio sicrhau bod gwasanaethau'n parhau wedi'u cysylltu. Roedd gennym y fforymau cydnerthedd lleol yn gweithredu hefyd, yn ogystal â nifer o'r sefydliadau Cymru-gyfan eraill. Roeddwn i'n cael adroddiadau sefyllfa drwy gydol y digwyddiad.

Ond, Lywydd, gallwn ddisgwyl rhagor o'r digwyddiadau hyn wrth i newid hinsawdd gynyddu. Ni fydd yn bosibl oni bai ein bod yn gweithredu cynlluniau lliniaru ac addasu newid hinsawdd sero net llym i wneud unrhyw beth am hyn. Ac rwy'n gwybod bod yr Aelod yn ddiffuant yn yr hyn y mae'n ei ddweud, ond nid yw'n helpu bod ei phlaid yn gwrthwynebu pob peth a wnawn byth i geisio lliniaru newid hinsawdd. Rhaid inni gadw tymheredd y byd i lawr islaw 1.5 gradd dros y sylfaen, neu byddwn yn gweld y math hwn o beth yn rheolaidd iawn. Felly, yn hollol, Lywydd, mae angen inni gael yr ymateb gorau pan fydd y pethau hyn yn digwydd, ond os ydym am liniaru hyn, mae'n rhaid inni weithredu gyda'n gilydd a bod yn fwy radical nag y byddai plaid yr Aelod am i chi ei gredu. 

On Sunday morning, flood defences in Trevalyn near Wrexham weren't fully utilised, leaving, of course, homes ankle deep in water. I know Natural Resources Wales have confirmed that they're investigating why the defences weren't fully used, and residents are quite rightly asking why a slatted barrier and a pump usually used before water levels rise weren't employed. Now, it would be interesting to hear what your understanding is of what went wrong there, or at least by when do you expect Natural Resources Wales to report back to you on what went wrong there. But one of the concerns around the Wrexham local development plan, of course, is that it will allow large housing developments in areas prone to flooding. That's what's happening with key strategic sites on either side of Wrexham, as well as on a site in Rossett that is actually next door to the housing that was inundated with floodwater at the weekend. So, do you still, Minister, think it's appropriate to impose Wrexham's rejected LDP on the area, given the now heightened concerns around flooding on some of the sites that are included in the plan?

Fore Sul, ni chafodd amddiffynfeydd llifogydd yn Nhrefalun ger Wrecsam eu defnyddio'n llawn, gan adael cartrefi o dan ddŵr hyd at y fferau. Rwy'n gwybod bod Cyfoeth Naturiol Cymru wedi cadarnhau eu bod yn ymchwilio pam na chafodd yr amddiffynfeydd eu defnyddio'n llawn, ac mae trigolion yn gofyn yn ddigon teg pam na ddefnyddiwyd rhwystr delltog a phwmp, a ddefnyddir fel arfer cyn i lefelau dŵr godi. Nawr, byddai'n ddiddorol clywed beth yw eich dealltwriaeth o'r hyn a aeth o'i le yno, neu o leiaf erbyn pryd y disgwyliwch gael yr adroddiad gan Cyfoeth Naturiol Cymru am yr hyn a aeth o'i le yno. Ond un o'r pryderon ynghylch cynllun datblygu lleol Wrecsam, wrth gwrs, yw y bydd yn caniatáu datblygiadau tai mawr mewn ardaloedd sy'n dueddol o ddioddef llifogydd. Dyna sy'n digwydd gyda safleoedd strategol allweddol ar y naill ochr a'r llall i Wrecsam, yn ogystal ag ar safle yn yr Orsedd sydd drws nesaf i'r tai a oedd yn llawn o ddŵr llifogydd dros y penwythnos. Felly, a ydych chi'n dal i gredu ei bod hi'n briodol gorfodi'r cynllun datblygu lleol a wrthodwyd yn Wrecsam ar yr ardal, o ystyried y pryderon cynyddol ynghylch llifogydd yn rhai o'r safleoedd sydd wedi'u cynnwys yn y cynllun?

Well, Llywydd, I've already answered several questions on Wrexham's LDP. Nobody's imposing anything on them. This is the council's own LDP. It and its officers took the LDP through all of the stages right to the final point, and the thing that's causing them not to be able to respond to speculative development is the lack of an LDP. So, I fear the Member is badly misinformed about the effect of what happens when you aren't able to adopt your own LDP. 

Wel, Lywydd, rwyf eisoes wedi ateb sawl cwestiwn ar gynllun datblygu lleol Wrecsam. Nid oes neb yn gorfodi unrhyw beth arnynt. Dyma gynllun datblygu lleol y cyngor ei hun. Fe wnaethon nhw a'r swyddogion fynd â'r cynllun datblygu lleol drwy'r holl gamau hyd at y pwynt olaf, a'r peth sy'n achosi iddynt beidio â gallu ymateb i ddatblygiadau tybiannol yw diffyg cynllun datblygu lleol. Felly, rwy'n ofni bod yr Aelod dan gamargraff mawr am effaith yr hyn sy'n digwydd pan na allwch fabwysiadu eich cynllun datblygu lleol eich hun. 

Thank you, Jack Sargeant, for raising this today. My property was impacted by flooding, and I couldn't get home either to do anything about it because the train lines were flooded as well. Landowners need to take responsibility. They need to make sure that their ditches, culverts are cleared. I see that fields, ditches and everything now pour onto highways, and the highway drains can't cope—the very old Victorian infrastructure. 

Very often, people just blame the council and expect the council to provide sandbags, but it's not really their responsibility. Going forward, I was wondering if you could look at the mapping of drains. I know that, at one time, council workers used to know where all the drains and ditches were, but, during 10 years of cuts, that information has not been passed on. They're not able to keep clearing ditches. It's the same with NRW; it's very costly, very expensive, and it is up to landowners under riparian law. So, if we could map where the culverts and ditches are, who is responsible, and if some information could be produced by NRW and the council to give to landowners saying, 'Under riparian law, you are responsible for maintaining your ditches and drains', I think that would be helpful. Thank you.

Diolch yn fawr, Jack Sargeant, am godi hyn heddiw. Effeithiwyd ar fy eiddo i gan lifogydd, ac ni allwn gyrraedd adref ychwaith i wneud unrhyw beth amdano oherwydd bod y rheilffyrdd wedi dioddef llifogydd hefyd. Mae angen i dirfeddianwyr gymryd cyfrifoldeb. Mae angen iddynt sicrhau bod eu ffosydd a'u ceuffosydd yn cael eu clirio. Rwy'n gweld bod caeau, ffosydd a phopeth bellach yn arllwys ar briffyrdd, ac ni all draeniau priffyrdd ymdopi—y seilwaith Fictoraidd hen iawn honno. 

Yn aml iawn, mae pobl yn rhoi'r bai ar y cyngor ac yn disgwyl i'r cyngor ddarparu bagiau tywod, ond nid eu cyfrifoldeb nhw yw hynny mewn gwirionedd. Wrth symud ymlaen, roeddwn yn meddwl tybed a allech edrych ar fapio draeniau. Rwy'n gwybod, ar un adeg, fod gweithwyr y cyngor yn arfer gwybod lle roedd yr holl ddraeniau a ffosydd, ond yn ystod 10 mlynedd o doriadau, nid yw'r wybodaeth honno wedi'i throsglwyddo. Nid ydynt yn gallu parhau i glirio ffosydd. Mae'r un peth yn wir am CNC; mae'n gostus iawn, yn ddrud iawn, a mater i dirfeddianwyr yw hynny o dan gyfraith glannau'r afon. Felly, pe gallem fapio lle mae'r ceuffosydd a'r ffosydd, pwy sy'n gyfrifol, a phe gallai CNC a'r cyngor gynhyrchu gwybodaeth i'w rhoi i dirfeddianwyr yn dweud, 'O dan gyfraith glannau'r afon, chi sy'n gyfrifol am gynnal eich ffosydd a'ch draeniau', rwy'n credu y byddai hynny'n ddefnyddiol. Diolch.

15:20

Diolch. Diolch, Carolyn. This year alone, we're investing over £74 million in flooding and coastal erosion risk management in Wales. That's the highest ever annual spend on flood risk management in Wales to date. We already know, as you've said, that it's not possible to stop or prevent all coastal erosion and flooding, but we are taking steps to reduce the consequences and help create more resilient communities across Wales. I'm really sorry to hear of your personal experience. I was returning from north Wales myself on Friday, and we were unable to get through quite a lot of the road network because of flooding. It was a very severe storm indeed, and I want to, as I continue to say, thank the emergency services for all the work they were doing. Some extremely wet public servants were out telling us where the roads were blocked and where we could go, and I know that they were there for the rest of that night.

We are doing an extensive mapping service, which, indeed, as you point out, will support better understanding and wider adaptation to protect our communities from risk. I absolutely agree with you about understanding how your home is situated and what your responsibilities are, if you are near any kind of watercourse, to keep that watercourse clear and to make sure that it's functioning properly, and indeed to understand what the alert mechanisms are if there's a sudden deluge. I mean, there was a deluge on Thursday and Friday. We actually watched some of the rivers—. On our journey back from north Wales, we actually watched some of the rivers fill up—it was so fast. So, we need to make sure that we are creating more resilient communities across Wales. I do hope people will take advantage of the resources on NRW's website, and indeed of their community officers, to help get more resilient communities and to help people understand what they themselves can do to keep themselves safe, and indeed what flood resources there are available. We will of course be investigating all of the flooding that occurred, trying to understand what caused it, whether the flood defences were overwhelmed or didn't function properly, and what we can do to increase the adaptation.

Diolch, Carolyn. Eleni yn unig, rydym yn buddsoddi dros £74 miliwn mewn gwaith rheoli risg llifogydd ac erydu arfordirol yng Nghymru. Dyna'r gwariant blynyddol uchaf erioed ar reoli risg llifogydd yng Nghymru hyd yn hyn. Rydym eisoes yn gwybod, fel y dywedoch chi, nad yw'n bosibl stopio neu atal pob erydu arfordirol a llifogydd, ond rydym yn cymryd camau i leihau'r canlyniadau a helpu i greu cymunedau mwy cydnerth ledled Cymru. Mae'n ddrwg gennyf glywed am eich profiad personol. Roeddwn yn dychwelyd o ogledd Cymru fy hun ddydd Gwener, ac nid oedd modd teithio ar gryn dipyn o'r rhwydwaith ffyrdd oherwydd llifogydd. Roedd yn storm ddifrifol iawn yn wir, ac rwyf am ddiolch i'r gwasanaethau brys am yr holl waith a wnaethant, fel rwy'n parhau i ddweud. Roedd yna weision cyhoeddus gwlyb tu hwnt allan yno'n dweud wrthym lle roedd y ffyrdd wedi cau a lle gallem fynd, a gwn eu bod yno am weddill y noson honno.

Rydym yn gwneud gwasanaeth mapio helaeth, a fydd, fel y nodwch, yn cefnogi gwell dealltwriaeth ac addasu ehangach i ddiogelu ein cymunedau rhag risg. Rwy'n cytuno'n llwyr â chi ynglŷn â deall sut mae eich cartref wedi'i leoli a beth yw eich cyfrifoldebau, os ydych yn agos at unrhyw fath o gwrs dŵr, i gadw'r cwrs dŵr hwnnw'n glir ac i sicrhau ei fod yn gweithio'n iawn, ac yn wir i ddeall beth yw'r mecanweithiau rhybuddio os oes dilyw sydyn. Hynny yw, roedd dilyw ddydd Iau a dydd Gwener. Fe welsom rai o'r afonydd—. Ar ein taith yn ôl o ogledd Cymru, fe wnaethom wylio rhai o'r afonydd yn llenwi—roedd mor gyflym. Felly, mae angen inni sicrhau ein bod yn creu cymunedau mwy cydnerth ledled Cymru. Rwy'n gobeithio y bydd pobl yn manteisio ar yr adnoddau ar wefan CNC, ac yn wir ar eu swyddogion cymunedol, i helpu i gael cymunedau mwy cydnerth ac i helpu pobl i ddeall yr hyn y gallant ei wneud eu hunain i gadw eu hunain yn ddiogel, a pha adnoddau llifogydd sydd ar gael. Wrth gwrs, byddwn yn ymchwilio i'r holl lifogydd a ddigwyddodd, gan geisio deall beth a'u hachosodd, a oedd yr amddiffynfeydd rhag llifogydd wedi'u gorlethu neu heb weithredu'n iawn, a'r hyn y gallwn ei wneud i wella'r addasiad.

Well, the Well-being of Future Generations (Wales) Act 2015 is supposed to make public bodies listed in the Act, including local authorities and Natural Resources Wales, NRW, think more about the long term, work better with people and communities and each other, look to prevent problems and take a more joined-up approach. However, a resident of Leeswood, Flintshire, e-mailed, 'Although predicted, extreme rain conditions on 19 and 20 October caused flooding and distress to many, and damage to their property and livelihood. One feature that is ever present is the lack of maintenance to rainwater gullies, which are typically blocked with leaves and sediment. Although this has been reported to NRW, who are responsible for this watercourse, they failed to act in any capacity.'

After I intervened on behalf of flooded residents in Broughton, Flintshire, in 2021, Flintshire County Council detailed the actions they would take, including that priority would be given to elderly and vulnerable residents and known flooding black spots. However, e-mails received last weekend after the same properties flooded again related, amongst others, to a single parent with multiple sclerosis asking why weren't measures taken to provide the residents in the at-risk homes with sandbags.

And a final example: a housing association e-mailed after ground-floor flats in Mold, Flintshire, were again flooded, stating, 'We know that the drains are inadequate and have seen a scheme designed many years ago, which would provide a long-term solution.' This 2017 feasibility study, commissioned by Flintshire County Council, recommended that a copy of the report be submitted to the Welsh Government for confirmation that grant funding was available, but the scheme was never implemented. So, what is the point of the future generations Act if avoidable failures such as these are allowed to continue to devastate lives?

Wel, mae Deddf Llesiant Cenedlaethau'r Dyfodol (Cymru) 2015 i fod i wneud i gyrff cyhoeddus sydd wedi'u rhestru yn y Ddeddf, gan gynnwys awdurdodau lleol a Cyfoeth Naturiol Cymru, feddwl mwy am y tymor hir, gweithio'n well gyda phobl a chymunedau a'i gilydd, ceisio atal problemau a meithrin ymagwedd fwy cydgysylltiedig. Fodd bynnag, fe wnaeth un o drigolion Coed-llai, sir y Fflint, anfon e-bost yn dweud, 'Er ei fod wedi'i ragweld, achosodd glaw eithafol ar 19 a 20 Hydref lifogydd a gofid i lawer, a niwed i'w heiddo a'u bywoliaeth. Un nodwedd sy'n bresennol drwy'r amser yw diffyg gwaith cynnal a chadw ar gwteri dŵr glaw, sydd fel arfer wedi'u blocio â dail a gwaddod. Er bod CNC, sy'n gyfrifol am y cwrs dŵr, wedi cael gwybod am hyn, ni lwyddon nhw i weithredu mewn unrhyw fodd.'

Ar ôl imi ymyrryd ar ran trigolion a brofodd lifogydd ym Mrychdyn, sir y Fflint, yn 2021, rhoddodd Cyngor Sir y Fflint fanylion am y camau y byddent yn eu cymryd, gan gynnwys y byddai blaenoriaeth yn cael ei rhoi i drigolion oedrannus a bregus a mannau y gwyddys eu bod yn agored i berygl llifogydd. Fodd bynnag, roedd un e-byst a ddaeth i law y penwythnos diwethaf ar ôl i'r un adeiladau ddioddef llifogydd unwaith eto yn ymwneud â rhiant sengl â sglerosis ymledol, ymysg eraill, ac yn gofyn pam na roddwyd mesurau ar waith i ddarparu bagiau tywod i'r preswylwyr yn y cartrefi lle ceid perygl o lifogydd.

Ac un enghraifft olaf: ar ôl i fflatiau llawr gwaelod yn yr Wyddgrug, sir y Fflint, ddioddef llifogydd eto, daeth e-bost i law gan gymdeithas dai a ddywedai, 'Gwyddom fod y draeniau'n annigonol ac rydym wedi gweld cynllun a luniwyd flynyddoedd lawer yn ôl a fyddai'n darparu ateb hirdymor.' Argymhellai'r astudiaeth ddichonoldeb hon yn 2017, a gomisiynwyd gan Gyngor Sir y Fflint, y dylid cyflwyno copi o'r adroddiad i Lywodraeth Cymru i gadarnhau bod cyllid grant ar gael, ond ni chafodd y cynllun ei weithredu byth. Felly, beth yw pwynt Deddf cenedlaethau'r dyfodol os caniateir i fethiannau y gellir eu hosgoi fel y rhain barhau i ddifetha bywydau?

Well, thank you, Mark. As I've said a number of time already now, it is early days. We are looking into all of the issues that occurred throughout the flooding, which was widespread as a result of the storm. I will put forward a written statement once we know what the issues were. We will be investigating all of the issues around whether flood defences were inadequate or overwhelmed or not working, where there are additional flood defences required, and we will be talking to the local authorities, in their risk management authority capacity, about the schemes they are bringing forward for flooding. I'm not yet in any position to be able to report back on that, since it's only a few days since the storm.

Wel, diolch, Mark. Fel y dywedais sawl tro eisoes, mae'n ddyddiau cynnar. Rydym yn ymchwilio i'r holl faterion a ddigwyddodd drwy gydol y llifogydd, a oedd yn eang o ganlyniad i'r storm. Byddaf yn cyflwyno datganiad ysgrifenedig pan fyddwn yn gwybod beth oedd y materion a gododd. Byddwn yn ymchwilio i'r holl faterion sy'n codi i weld a oedd amddiffynfeydd rhag llifogydd yn annigonol neu wedi'u gorlethu neu ddim yn gweithio, lle mae angen amddiffynfeydd ychwanegol rhag llifogydd, a byddwn yn siarad â'r awdurdodau lleol, yn rhinwedd eu gwaith fel awdurdodau rheoli risg, am y cynlluniau y maent yn eu cyflwyno ar gyfer llifogydd. Nid wyf mewn unrhyw sefyllfa eto i allu adrodd yn ôl ar hynny, gan mai dim ond ychydig ddyddiau sydd ers y storm.

I'm pleased that this subject has been raised today by Jack Sargeant, as large parts of my constituency are vulnerable to storms, particularly in the areas that run parallel to the River Clwyd in Rhuddlan, St Asaph and also in lower Dyserth, given it has a waterfall and adjoining river that flows through the village. And in previous years, and indeed over the weekend last weekend, the rivers and waters swelled, burst their banks, leaving my constituents' businesses and their properties in a high degree of vulnerability every time we experience a sustained period of rainfall. So, I'd be grateful if the Minister could inform my constituents what steps the Welsh Government are taking to address these environmental realities in the Vale of Clwyd, and what conversations has or will the Minister have with partners and stakeholders in reducing the consequences of adverse weather conditions in Denbighshire so that my constituents can be reassured that the Welsh Government are doing all that they can to mitigate these risks and provide public reassurance as we head into the winter period.

Rwy'n falch fod Jack Sargeant wedi codi'r pwnc hwn heddiw, gan fod rhannau helaeth o fy etholaeth yn agored i stormydd, yn enwedig yn yr ardaloedd sy'n cyfochri ag afon Clwyd yn Rhuddlan, Llanelwy a gwaelod Dyserth hefyd, o ystyried bod rhaeadr yno ac afon gyfagos sy'n llifo drwy'r pentref. Ac mewn blynyddoedd blaenorol, ac yn wir dros y penwythnos diwethaf, cododd yr afonydd a'r dyfroedd, a thorri eu glannau, gan adael busnesau fy etholwyr a'u heiddo'n agored iawn i ddifrod bob tro y byddwn yn profi cyfnod parhaus o law. Felly, buaswn yn ddiolchgar pe gallai'r Gweinidog roi gwybod i fy etholwyr pa gamau y mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn eu cymryd i fynd i'r afael â'r realiti amgylcheddol hon yn Nyffryn Clwyd, a pha sgyrsiau y mae'r Gweinidog wedi eu cael ac yn mynd i'w cael gyda phartneriaid a rhanddeiliaid i leihau canlyniadau tywydd garw yn sir Ddinbych fel y gall fy etholwyr fod yn dawel eu meddwl fod Llywodraeth Cymru yn gwneud popeth yn ei gallu i liniaru'r risgiau hyn a darparu sicrwydd i'r cyhoedd wrth inni wynebu'r gaeaf.

15:25

Thank you. So, as I've said, Llywydd, a number of times now, we are in the process of the lessons learned that we always undertake after serious flood events. I would encourage Members though to make sure that they're aware of the resources that are available. We do have advice and support on how to join a community flood group, along with a list of organisations who provide support for flood groups, such as the National Flood Forum and local resilience forums. They're all available on NRW's website. We also have a number of community flood plans across Wales—74 as we speak. There are 37 communities in south Wales, 13 in mid, and 24 in north Wales taking action in terms of those community flood plans, so it's very possible that the Member has a community flood programme already in his area, and I would encourage him and his constituents to get onto NRW's website and make sure that they are taking advantage of all of the available resources.

Diolch. Felly, fel y dywedais nifer o weithiau nawr, Lywydd, rydym yng nghanol y broses o ddysgu gwersi yr ydym bob amser yn ei dilyn ar ôl digwyddiadau llifogydd difrifol. Hoffwn annog yr Aelodau serch hynny i sicrhau eu bod yn ymwybodol o'r adnoddau sydd ar gael. Mae gennym gyngor a chymorth ar sut i ymuno â grŵp llifogydd cymunedol, ynghyd â rhestr o sefydliadau sy'n darparu cefnogaeth i grwpiau llifogydd, megis y Fforwm Llifogydd Cenedlaethol a fforymau cydnerthedd lleol. Maent i gyd ar gael ar wefan CNC. Mae gennym hefyd nifer o gynlluniau llifogydd cymunedol ledled Cymru—74 ar hyn o bryd. Mae 37 cymuned yn ne Cymru, 13 yn y canolbarth a 24 yng ngogledd Cymru yn gweithredu ar y cynlluniau llifogydd cymunedol hynny, felly, mae'n bosibl iawn fod gan yr Aelod raglen llifogydd gymunedol eisoes yn ei ardal, a hoffwn ei annog ef a'i etholwyr i fynd ar wefan CNC a sicrhau eu bod yn manteisio ar yr holl adnoddau sydd ar gael.

Diolch, Llywydd. Minister, I'm afraid I'm not filled with much confidence as a result of the responses that I've heard today. I had areas in my constituency also that experienced flooding over the past weekend, places such as Llanddulas, Mochdre, parts of Colwyn Bay, Pensarn in Abergele, and many roads in the rural communities. It does strike me that one of the problems has been a cutback in the routine maintenance visits by NRW on the areas for which they are responsible. We know that there will now be section 19 reports and, obviously, NRW will need to undertake a review. I have to say, I've had a single e-mail from NRW, as have other Members of the Senedd, since these events. That's not good enough. We've not been offered any virtual briefings with NRW in the wake of what has happened. And I know that you say we're going to learn lessons and that you'll review these things and something will come forward for discussion, but it took two and a half years after the floods in 2020 and 2021 before a report was laid in this Senedd. I don’t want to be waiting two and a half years to see what could have been done to prevent some of the flooding that we all experienced last weekend. So, what assurances can you give us, Minister, that we won't be waiting two and a half years, that this will be a rapid exercise to look at the issues and challenges that people faced, so that we can learn lessons quickly and, more importantly, act more quickly in order that people's properties can be defended in the future?

Diolch, Lywydd. Weinidog, mae arnaf ofn nad wyf yn llawn hyder o ganlyniad i'r ymatebion a glywais heddiw. Roedd gennyf ardaloedd yn fy etholaeth i hefyd a brofodd lifogydd dros y penwythnos diwethaf, llefydd fel Llanddulas, Mochdre, rhannau o Fae Colwyn, Pen-sarn yn Abergele, a llawer o ffyrdd yn y cymunedau gwledig. Mae'n fy nharo mai un o'r problemau fu cwtogi ar yr ymweliadau cynnal a chadw rheolaidd gan CNC â'r ardaloedd y maent yn gyfrifol amdanynt. Rydym yn gwybod y bydd yna adroddiadau adran 19 bellach ac yn amlwg, bydd angen i CNC gynnal adolygiad. Mae'n rhaid imi ddweud, un e-bost a gefais gan CNC, fel Aelodau eraill o'r Senedd, ers y digwyddiadau hyn. Nid yw hynny'n ddigon da. Nid ydym wedi cael cynnig unrhyw sesiynau briffio rhithwir gyda CNC yn sgil yr hyn a ddigwyddodd. Ac rwy'n gwybod eich bod yn dweud ein bod yn mynd i ddysgu gwersi ac y byddwch yn adolygu'r pethau hyn ac y bydd rhywbeth yn cael ei gyflwyno i'w drafod, ond cymerodd ddwy flynedd a hanner ar ôl y llifogydd yn 2020 a 2021 cyn cyflwyno adroddiad yn y Senedd hon. Nid wyf am aros dwy flynedd a hanner i weld beth y gellid bod wedi'i wneud i atal peth o'r llifogydd a brofwyd gennym i gyd y penwythnos diwethaf. Felly, pa sicrwydd y gallwch ei roi inni, Weinidog, na fyddwn yn aros dwy flynedd a hanner, y bydd hwn yn ymarfer cyflym i edrych ar y materion sy'n codi a'r heriau sy'n wynebu pobl, fel y gallwn ddysgu gwersi'n gyflym ac yn bwysicach fyth, gweithredu'n gyflymach er mwyn diogelu eiddo pobl yn y dyfodol?

Daeth y Dirprwy Lywydd (David Rees) i’r Gadair.

The Deputy Presiding Officer (David Rees) took the Chair.

Well, I think, Darren, you're conflating two different types of report there. So, the report you're talking about was the overarching report into the usefulness or otherwise of the section 19 reports—that's what took the time to do. The section 19 reports themselves did not take that amount of time, of course, and neither did NRW's report, so I do think it's important not to conflate the different sorts of report that we looked at. The one you're referring to by Professor Elwen Evans KC is one which was an overarching report that looked at a very large number of other reports and took an overview of them. So, I think you're conflating two timescales there.

Llywydd, as I've said a number of times, it's obviously only a few days since storm Babet. We will need to make sure that we do the lessons learned. I can tell you that, so far, we know that 64 confirmed properties were flooded internally. They were in Conwy, Flintshire and Powys. We've received updates from around half of our local authorities so far. They're all early indications. The focus is still currently on response. The flood warning was not removed until yesterday in some parts of Wales, so this is very early days, and we will, of course, be expecting our various public sector authorities and our resilience fora to come forward with their reports in good time, but it is important to get it right and to understand the lessons that need to be learned.

Wel, rwy'n credu, Darren, eich bod yn cymysgu rhwng dau fath gwahanol o adroddiad yno. Felly, yr adroddiad rydych yn sôn amdano oedd yr adroddiad trosfwaol i ddefnyddioldeb adroddiadau adran 19, neu fel arall—dyna y cymerodd amser i'w wneud. Nid oedd yr adroddiadau adran 19 eu hunain yn cymryd cymaint o amser wrth gwrs, ac ni wnaeth adroddiad CNC ychwaith, felly, rwy'n credu ei bod yn bwysig peidio â chymysgu rhwng y gwahanol fathau o adroddiad y gwnaethom edrych arnynt. Mae'r un y cyfeiriwch chi ato, sef yr un gan yr Athro Elwen Evans KC, yn un a oedd yn adroddiad trosfwaol a edrychodd ar nifer fawr iawn o adroddiadau eraill ac a roddodd drosolwg ohonynt. Felly, rwy'n credu eich bod yn cymysgu rhwng dwy amserlen yno.

Lywydd, fel rwyf wedi dweud sawl gwaith, mae'n amlwg mai dim ond ychydig ddyddiau sydd ers storm Babet. Bydd angen inni sicrhau ein bod yn dysgu gwersi. Gallaf ddweud wrthych ein bod, hyd yma, yn gwybod bod 64 eiddo wedi'u cadarnhau fel rhai a ddioddefodd lifogydd o'u mewn. Roeddent yng Nghonwy, sir y Fflint a Phowys. Rydym wedi derbyn diweddariadau gan oddeutu hanner ein hawdurdodau lleol hyd yn hyn. Maent i gyd yn arwyddion cynnar. Mae'r pwyslais yn dal i fod ar ymateb. Ni chafodd y rhybudd llifogydd ei godi tan ddoe mewn rhai rhannau o Gymru, felly, mae'n ddyddiau cynnar iawn, ac wrth gwrs, byddwn yn disgwyl i'n gwahanol awdurdodau sector cyhoeddus a'n fforymau cydnerthedd gyflwyno eu hadroddiadau mewn da bryd, ond mae'n bwysig ei gael yn iawn a deall y gwersi sydd angen eu dysgu.

15:30

Diolch i'r Gweinidog. Mae'r cwestiwn amserol olaf gan Jane Dodds.

Thank you, Minister. The final topical question is from Jane Dodds.

Dŵr Cymru
Dŵr Cymru

2. Pa gamau y mae'r Gweinidog yn eu cymryd i sicrhau bod Dŵr Cymru yn cydymffurfio ag amodau ei drwydded weithredol yn dilyn pryderon ynghylch cydymffurfiaeth â'r trwyddedau gollwng? TQ889

2. What steps is the Minister taking to ensure that Dŵr Cymru complies with its operational permit conditions following concerns over compliance against their discharge permits? TQ889

We've been very clear that we expect water companies to work harder to deliver excellent services across all areas of their operation. My officials and I are working closely with Dŵr Cymru and NRW, who are the environmental regulators and are therefore responsible for water company permit compliance.

Rydym wedi dweud yn glir iawn ein bod yn disgwyl i gwmnïau dŵr weithio'n galetach i ddarparu gwasanaethau rhagorol ar draws eu holl weithrediadau. Mae fy swyddogion a minnau’n gweithio’n agos gyda Dŵr Cymru ac CNC, sef y rheoleiddwyr amgylcheddol ac sydd felly’n gyfrifol am gydymffurfiaeth cwmnïau dŵr â thrwyddedau.

Thank you, Minister. I was appalled, as I'm sure others were, by the revelation last week that Dŵr Cymru has been illegally dumping untreated sewage from dozens of treatment plants for years. This utter disregard for the rules meant to protect our precious, natural environment and our health is unacceptable. The scale of Dŵr Cymru's failure is astounding. The fact that nearly half of their waste water treatment plants break permit rules is shocking enough, but the situation at Aberteifi is particularly staggering, where untreated sewage has spilled out onto the coast for over 200 days per year since 2019.

We've all received the response from Dŵr Cymru about the report, which tells us that they've known about the issues and have been investigating now for a number of years, but that work on a new plant could take up to four years—four more years of illegal spillages and habitat catastrophe. I had little confidence before that Dŵr Cymru had a grasp of the situation, and now, following the report from the BBC, I have none at all. It does call into question how many other plants are in this position and what else we don't know.

I raised with the First Minister and the Climate Change, Environment and Infrastructure Committee the desperate need for there to be an independent and comprehensive review of Dŵr Cymru's operation and performance. I would therefore ask you, Minister: will you now commit to launching a full, independent inquiry into the failures of Dŵr Cymru, because the public deserve answers? Diolch yn fawr iawn.

Diolch, Weinidog. Cefais fy siomi, fel eraill, rwy’n siŵr, gan y datgeliad yr wythnos diwethaf fod Dŵr Cymru wedi bod yn dympio carthion heb eu trin yn anghyfreithlon o ddwsinau o weithfeydd trin dŵr gwastraff ers blynyddoedd. Mae'r diystyrwch llwyr hwn o'r rheolau, sydd i fod i warchod ein hamgylchedd naturiol gwerthfawr a'n hiechyd, yn annerbyniol. Mae graddau methiant Dŵr Cymru yn syfrdanol. Mae’r ffaith bod bron i hanner eu gweithfeydd trin dŵr gwastraff yn torri rheolau trwyddedau yn ddigon syfrdanol, ond mae’r sefyllfa yn Aberteifi yn arbennig o syfrdanol, lle mae carthion heb eu trin wedi eu gollwng ar yr arfordir am dros 200 diwrnod y flwyddyn ers 2019.

Mae pob un ohonom wedi cael yr ymateb gan Dŵr Cymru am yr adroddiad, sy’n dweud wrthym eu bod yn ymwybodol o'r problemau ac wedi bod yn ymchwilio ers nifer o flynyddoedd bellach, ond y gallai gwaith ar safle trin gwastraff newydd gymryd hyd at bedair blynedd—pedair blynedd arall o ollyngiadau anghyfreithlon a thrychineb i gynefinoedd. Nid oedd gennyf fawr o hyder cynt fod gan Dŵr Cymru grap ar y sefyllfa, a bellach, yn dilyn yr adroddiad gan y BBC, nid oes gennyf unrhyw hyder o gwbl. Mae'n codi cwestiwn ynghylch faint o weithfeydd eraill sydd yn y sefyllfa hon a beth arall nad ydym yn ei wybod.

Trafodais yr angen dirfawr am adolygiad annibynnol a chynhwysfawr o weithrediad a pherfformiad Dŵr Cymru gyda’r Prif Weinidog a’r Pwyllgor Newid Hinsawdd, yr Amgylchedd a Seilwaith. Hoffwn ofyn i chi, felly, Weinidog: a wnewch chi ymrwymo nawr i lansio ymchwiliad llawn, annibynnol i fethiannau Dŵr Cymru, gan fod y cyhoedd yn haeddu atebion? Diolch yn fawr iawn.

Diolch, Jane. I do absolutely expect water companies in Wales to work very much harder to deliver excellent services to customers across areas of operation. I have a number of meetings in train this week with Dŵr Cymru and NRW, including one with the two of them together, to discuss a number of issues, including this one.

I'm sure you know—. And I'm not here to be a spokesperson for Dŵr Cymru, far from it, but I'm sure you know that they have admitted that there are problems relating to technical issues and salt-water intrusion at the Cardigan waste water treatment works and that they're planning a £20 million investment. I think you just said that you were aware of that.

I just want to be—. Without making any excuse for them whatsoever, as I'm just as appalled as you are, I just want to be sure, though, that we're being accurate about it. So, just to be really clear, the classification of Poppit sands bathing water, which is in near proximity to the treatment plant in question, has retained its excellent classification and that continues to be the case. I don't want to alarm people who use those waters unduly. That's without excusing it, though, Jane. I absolutely agree with you that this is not good enough and we need to do something about it.

But like all of these things, there are a lot of politics behind this. The way that water investment has been treated over the last 14 or 15 years is to say that the water companies can only invest if they put the price of that onto the bills of their customers. That's not the way we invest in other infrastructure. We don't invest in roads in that way, for example, and there would be an outcry if we did, I'm sure. So, there are some political choices there being made here by the Conservative Government that are driving the lack of investment, and I sincerely hope that we'll get a Government that has a different approach to that in place, so that we can make the multi-million-pound, indeed billions of pounds', investment in our infrastructure for water that we really need, if we're to protect our natural environment.

Diolch, Jane. Rwy’n sicr yn disgwyl i gwmnïau dŵr yng Nghymru weithio’n galetach o lawer i ddarparu gwasanaethau rhagorol i gwsmeriaid ar draws eu gweithrediadau. Mae gennyf nifer o gyfarfodydd ar y gweill yr wythnos hon gyda Dŵr Cymru ac CNC, gan gynnwys un gyda’r ddau ohonynt gyda’i gilydd, i drafod nifer o faterion, yn cynnwys hyn.

Rwy'n siŵr eich bod yn gwybod—. Ac nid wyf yma i fod yn llefarydd ar ran Dŵr Cymru, dim o gwbl, ond rwy’n siŵr eich bod yn gwybod eu bod wedi cyfaddef bod yna broblemau'n ymwneud â materion technegol a gollyngiadau i ddŵr hallt yng ngwaith trin dŵr gwastraff Aberteifi a'u bod yn cynllunio buddsoddiad o £20 miliwn. Rwy'n credu eich bod newydd ddweud eich bod yn ymwybodol o hynny.

Rwyf am fod—. Heb wneud unrhyw esgusodion o gwbl drostynt, gan fy mod wedi fy mrawychu fel chithau, hoffwn fod yn siŵr, serch hynny, fod ein ffeithiau'n hollol gywir. Felly, i fod yn gwbl glir, mae dŵr ymdrochi traeth Poppit, sy'n agos iawn at y gwaith trin dŵr dan sylw, wedi cadw ei ddosbarthiad rhagorol, ac mae hynny'n parhau i fod yn wir. Nid wyf am ddychryn pobl sy'n defnyddio'r dyfroedd hynny heb fod angen. Ond nid yw hynny'n ei esgusodi, serch hynny, Jane. Rwy'n cytuno'n llwyr â chi nad yw hyn yn ddigon da, a bod angen inni wneud rhywbeth yn ei gylch.

Ond fel gyda'r holl bethau hyn, mae cryn dipyn o wleidyddiaeth y tu ôl iddo. Y ffordd y mae buddsoddiad dŵr wedi'i drin dros y 14 neu 15 mlynedd diwethaf yw dweud mai dim ond os ydynt yn rhoi pris hynny ar filiau eu cwsmeriaid y gall y cwmnïau dŵr fuddsoddi. Nid dyna'r ffordd rydym yn buddsoddi mewn seilwaith arall. Nid ydym yn buddsoddi mewn ffyrdd yn y ffordd honno, er enghraifft, a byddai gwrthwynebiad mawr pe baem yn gwneud hynny, rwy’n siŵr. Felly, mae dewisiadau gwleidyddol yn cael eu gwneud yma gan y Llywodraeth Geidwadol sy'n achosi'r diffyg buddsoddiad, ac rwy'n mawr obeithio y cawn Lywodraeth a chanddi ddull gweithredu gwahanol i hynny, fel y gallwn wneud y buddsoddiad gwerth miliynau lawer o bunnoedd, biliynau o bunnoedd yn wir, yn ein seilwaith dŵr, buddsoddiad y mae ei angen yn fawr os ydym am ddiogelu ein hamgylchedd naturiol.

Let's be honest here, it's no good pointing the finger at the UK Government. The situation in Wales is bad in terms of the pollution incidents we have. Welsh Water themselves have only recently admitted to the BBC that they have illegally spilled untreated sewage from dozens of treatment plants for years. Between 40 and 50 waste water treatment plants are currently operating in breach of their permits. Professor Hammond requested data on Welsh treatment plants, and found that 10 had been releasing untreated sewage at times when they should have been treating it. The data provided showed that Cardigan almost never treated the amount of sewage it was supposed to; it has illegally spilled untreated sewage for a cumulative total of 1,146 days, from the start of 2018 to the end of May 2023. What makes this crisis even worse is that Natural Resources Wales have known about it for eight years. In terms of Cardigan, Minister, NRW has issued enforcement notices, but no fines. As we have already stated, what is the point of enforcement if the companies just think, 'Oh, we can get a caution, we can get a warning', but there are no actual measures taken against them—no fines? NRW are now looking at data from 101—

Gadewch inni fod yn onest yma, ni thâl pwyntio bys at Lywodraeth y DU. Mae’r sefyllfa yng Nghymru yn wael o ran yr achosion o lygredd sydd gennym. Dim ond yn ddiweddar y mae Dŵr Cymru eu hunain wedi cyfaddef i'r BBC eu bod wedi gollwng carthion heb eu trin yn anghyfreithlon o ddwsinau o weithfeydd trin ers blynyddoedd. Mae rhwng 40 a 50 o weithfeydd trin dŵr gwastraff yn gweithredu'n groes i'w trwyddedau ar hyn o bryd. Gofynnodd yr Athro Hammond am ddata ar weithfeydd trin dŵr yng Nghymru, a chanfu fod 10 ohonynt wedi bod yn gollwng carthion heb eu trin ar adegau pan ddylent fod wedi bod yn ei drin. Roedd y data a ddarparwyd yn dangos nad oedd Aberteifi bron byth yn trin faint o garthion roedd i fod i'w drin; mae wedi gollwng carthion heb eu trin yn anghyfreithlon am gyfanswm cronnol o 1,146 o ddiwrnodau, o ddechrau 2018 hyd at ddiwedd mis Mai 2023. Yr hyn sy’n gwneud yr argyfwng hyd yn oed yn waeth yw bod Cyfoeth Naturiol Cymru wedi gwybod amdano ers wyth mlynedd. O ran Aberteifi, Weinidog, mae CNC wedi cyhoeddi hysbysiadau gorfodi, ond dim dirwyon. Fel rydym wedi'i ddweud eisoes, beth yw pwynt gorfodaeth os yw'r cwmnïau'n meddwl, 'O, gallwn gael rhybudd, gallwn gael cerydd', ond nid oes unrhyw gamau gwirioneddol yn cael eu cymryd yn eu herbyn—dim dirwyon? Mae CNC bellach yn edrych ar ddata o 101—

15:35

Janet, you need to ask the question.

Janet, mae angen ichi ofyn y cwestiwn.

—treatment plants. What measure will you take to address the major failure to publish the storm overflow report? It was due in March of this year. We cannot allow this pollution to continue. And given that the situation is worse in Wales, we should stop now blaming the UK Government.

—o weithfeydd trin dŵr. Pa gamau y byddwch yn eu cymryd i fynd i’r afael â’r methiant difrifol i gyhoeddi’r adroddiad ar orlifoedd stormydd? Roedd i fod i gael ei gyhoeddi ym mis Mawrth eleni. Ni allwn ganiatáu i’r llygredd hwn barhau. Ac o ystyried bod y sefyllfa’n waeth yng Nghymru, dylem roi’r gorau nawr i feio Llywodraeth y DU.

Well, Janet, I can hear that you don't want to blame the UK Government, and of course you don't, because you support them. But there's no way around the fact that, without the infrastructure investment that's needed at Government level, we cannot solve this problem. The only way that Dŵr Cymru, or any other water company in the whole of the UK, can make investment is by adding money to bills; I'm sure you'd be the first to say that you don't want bills to be more expensive. Also, the issue at Cardigan is unresolvable without significant investment in the upgrading of the infrastructure—everybody agrees that.

On this specific matter, I know that NRW would rather see the investment go back into the site than on a fine. A fine will merely take more money away from Welsh Water so that they can't actually invest in the infrastructure that we need. So, I'm afraid, as usual, Janet, I suppose your heart must be in the right place, but your solution is both impractical and improbable.

Wel, Janet, gallaf glywed nad ydych am feio Llywodraeth y DU, ac wrth gwrs nad ydych, am eich bod yn eu cefnogi. Ond nid oes modd osgoi'r ffaith na allwn ddatrys y broblem hon heb y buddsoddiad mewn seilwaith sydd ei angen ar lefel y Llywodraeth. Yr unig ffordd y gall Dŵr Cymru fuddsoddi, neu unrhyw gwmni dŵr arall yn y DU gyfan, yw drwy ychwanegu arian at filiau; rwy'n siŵr mai chi fyddai'r cyntaf i ddweud nad ydych chi am i filiau fod yn ddrytach. Hefyd, mae’r mater yn Aberteifi yn un na ellir ei ddatrys heb fuddsoddiad sylweddol i uwchraddio’r seilwaith—mae pawb yn gytûn ar hynny.

Ar y mater penodol hwn, gwn y byddai’n well gan CNC weld y buddsoddiad yn mynd yn ôl i mewn i’r safle nag ar ddirwy. Ni fydd dirwy ond yn mynd â mwy o arian oddi ar Dŵr Cymru fel na allant fuddsoddi yn y seilwaith sydd ei angen arnom. Felly, fel arfer, Janet, mae arnaf ofn fod eich calon yn y lle iawn, mae'n debyg, ond mae eich ateb yn anymarferol ac yn annhebygol.

As we've already heard, there are growing concerns regarding Dŵr Cymru's compliance with their operational permits. The environmental implications of any lapses are significant, and public outrage on seeing raw sewage and effluent being pumped into our seas and rivers is completely understandable. It's essential therefore that we hold Dŵr Cymru accountable, and ensure that necessary measures are in place to protect our environment and the interests of the people of Wales. So, improvements to treatment plants are clearly necessary, as we've already heard, but they're also costly. However, it's crucial that any capital investments in water treatment infrastructure do not negatively impact customers—and that is something we've heard from the Minister already. We must strike a balance between safeguarding our environment and ensuring affordable access to clean water for all.

It's also a concern—again, we've heard this already—that NRW, which is the regulator in this instance, has very real limitations in resource and capacity to enforce compliance. Surely, it's our responsibility to ensure that NRW is equipped to protect our environment effectively. So, could the Minister clarify therefore how she intends to ensure that any capital investments by Dŵr Cymru will not lead to increased costs for customers? And also, how does she plan to empower NRW to take more decisive action against Dŵr Cymru when compliance issues arise? And what financial support, if any, can Welsh Government provide to enable Welsh Water to meet its environmental responsibilities?

Fel rydym eisoes wedi'i glywed, mae pryderon cynyddol ynghylch cydymffurfiaeth Dŵr Cymru â'u trwyddedau gweithredol. Mae goblygiadau amgylcheddol unrhyw esgeulustod yn sylweddol, ac mae dicter y cyhoedd o weld carthion amrwd ac elifion yn cael eu pwmpio i mewn i’n moroedd a’n hafonydd yn gwbl ddealladwy. Mae'n hanfodol felly ein bod yn dwyn Dŵr Cymru i gyfrif, ac yn sicrhau bod mesurau angenrheidiol ar waith i warchod ein hamgylchedd a buddiannau pobl Cymru. Felly, mae'n amlwg fod angen gwelliannau i weithfeydd trin dŵr, fel rydym eisoes wedi'i glywed, ond maent hefyd yn gostus. Fodd bynnag, mae'n hanfodol nad yw unrhyw fuddsoddiadau cyfalaf yn y seilwaith trin dŵr yn cael effaith negyddol ar gwsmeriaid—ac mae hynny'n rhywbeth rydym eisoes wedi'i glywed gan y Gweinidog. Mae'n rhaid inni gael cydbwysedd rhwng diogelu ein hamgylchedd a sicrhau mynediad fforddiadwy at ddŵr glân i bawb.

Mae hefyd yn bryder—unwaith eto, rydym wedi eisoes clywed hyn—fod gan CNC, sef y rheoleiddiwr yn yr achos hwn, gyfyngiadau gwirioneddol ar ei adnoddau a'i gapasiti i orfodi cydymffurfiaeth. Yn sicr, ein cyfrifoldeb ni yw sicrhau bod CNC yn gallu amddiffyn ein hamgylchedd yn effeithiol. Felly, a allai’r Gweinidog egluro sut mae’n bwriadu sicrhau na fydd unrhyw fuddsoddiadau cyfalaf gan Dŵr Cymru yn arwain at gostau uwch i gwsmeriaid? A hefyd, sut mae'n bwriadu grymuso CNC i gymryd camau mwy pendant yn erbyn Dŵr Cymru pan fo materion cydymffurfio'n codi? A pha gymorth ariannol, os o gwbl, y gall Llywodraeth Cymru ei ddarparu i alluogi Dŵr Cymru i gyflawni ei gyfrifoldebau amgylcheddol?

Thank you for that, Cefin. And again, I can hear your concern, and I share your concern. But there are some fundamental issues here with the way that the pricing structure for water works. I have a series of meetings later this week, and on into November, with both NRW and Dŵr Cymru, and indeed Hafren Dyfrdwy—together and separately—and also with Ofwat, in order to discuss this. But as the current structure of the water industry in the whole of the UK stands, the only way to put the investment in is to increase the bills of customers. So, we discuss that with them all the time. We make sure that there's a good social tariff in place for those who are unable to afford it. But unless you have a change in the Government, and the UK Government's understanding of how you would implement infrastructure improvement in the water industry, then I'm afraid the only way to implement infrastructure improvements by the water companies is from the money that they raise in revenue, which is, of course, the bills that we all pay.

We will be working, however, with NRW and Welsh Water to make sure that their pipeline of what they're going to do first, and what the severity is, and making sure that they address the worst first, is necessary. And I do think it's important to make sure that we are—. I absolutely understand the outrage; I absolutely share it myself, but I think it is important to make sure that we understand the effect of each of the spills and what can be done to overcome it. 

Diolch, Cefin. Ac unwaith eto, gallaf glywed eich pryder, a rhannaf eich pryder. Ond mae rhai problemau sylfaenol yma gyda'r ffordd y mae'r strwythur prisio ar gyfer dŵr yn gweithio. Mae gennyf gyfres o gyfarfodydd yn nes ymlaen yr wythnos hon, ac ymlaen i fis Tachwedd, gydag CNC a Dŵr Cymru, a Hafren Dyfrdwy yn wir—gyda’i gilydd ac ar wahân—a hefyd gydag Ofwat, er mwyn trafod hyn. Ond fel y mae strwythur presennol y diwydiant dŵr ledled y DU, yr unig ffordd o roi'r buddsoddiad i mewn yw cynyddu biliau cwsmeriaid. Felly, rydym yn trafod hynny gyda nhw drwy’r amser. Rydym yn sicrhau bod tariff cymdeithasol da ar waith ar gyfer y rhai na allant ei fforddio. Ond oni cheir newid Llywodraeth, a newid yn nealltwriaeth Llywodraeth y DU o sut y byddech yn gwneud gwelliannau seilwaith yn y diwydiant dŵr, mae arnaf ofn mai'r unig ffordd sydd gan y cwmnïau dŵr o wneud gwelliannau i'r seilwaith yw drwy'r arian y maent yn ei godi mewn refeniw, sef, wrth gwrs, y biliau y mae pob un ohonom yn eu talu.

Fodd bynnag, byddwn yn gweithio gydag CNC a Dŵr Cymru i sicrhau bod eu llwybr ar gyfer yr hyn wnânt yn gyntaf, a beth yw'r difrifoldeb, a sicrhau eu bod yn mynd i'r afael â'r problemau gwaethaf yn gyntaf, yn angenrheidiol. A chredaf ei bod yn bwysig sicrhau ein bod—. Rwy'n deall y dicter yn llwyr; rwy’n ei rannu fy hun, yn sicr, ond credaf ei bod yn bwysig sicrhau ein bod yn deall effaith pob un o’r gollyngiadau a beth y gellir ei wneud i’w oresgyn.

15:40

As you probably remember, I regularly raise concerns about sewerage in the River Tawe, where storm water mixes with raw sewage at the Trebanos treatment works and is then discharged into the River Tawe. I have said several times in the Senedd that in order to stop this, Welsh Water needs to be prosecuted and fined. There's no pain for putting raw sewage in it for them. I have read that NRW do not prosecute Welsh Water because of the threat of costs being awarded against them. 

Will the Welsh Government underwrite the cost of NRW prosecuting Welsh Water? We cannot continue like this, having raw sewage in rivers where children are playing, where anglers are trying to catch fish. We just can't continue like this. They started putting it right in the twentieth century; why are we going backwards?

Fel y cofiwch mae'n siŵr, rwy’n lleisio pryderon yn rheolaidd am garthffosiaeth yn afon Tawe, lle mae dŵr storm yn cymysgu â charthion amrwd yng ngwaith trin Trebanos ac yna’n cael ei ollwng i afon Tawe. I atal hyn, rwyf wedi dweud sawl gwaith yn y Senedd fod angen erlyn a dirwyo Dŵr Cymru. Nid ydynt yn cael eu cosbi am ollwng carthion amrwd. Rwyf wedi darllen nad yw CNC yn erlyn Dŵr Cymru oherwydd y bygythiad y gallai costau gael eu dyfarnu yn eu herbyn.

A wnaiff Llywodraeth Cymru dalu'r gost o erlyn Dŵr Cymru i CNC? Ni allwn barhau fel hyn, gyda charthion amrwd mewn afonydd lle mae plant yn chwarae, lle mae pysgotwyr yn ceisio dal pysgod. Ni allwn barhau fel hyn. Fe wnaethant ddechrau unioni pethau yn yr ugeinfed ganrif; pam ein bod yn mynd tuag yn ôl?

Yes, Mike, I'm more than happy to bring forward—. Well, in fact, I'm due to do an oral statement on this, Diprwy Lywydd, and I'm sure Members will bring it up there, but I'm more than happy to circulate information on NRW's prosecution policies, how they work and where they prosecute. 

Ie, Mike, rwy'n fwy na pharod i gyflwyno—. Wel, mewn gwirionedd, rwyf i fod i wneud datganiad llafar ar hyn, Ddirprwy Lywydd, ac rwy'n siŵr y bydd yr Aelodau'n codi hyn bryd hynny, ond rwy'n fwy na pharod i gylchredeg gwybodaeth am bolisïau erlyn CNC, sut maent yn gweithio a lle maent yn erlyn.

In this place, when we discuss issues like this, one of the privileges we have is the ability to make law. I note, Minister, that the Office for Environmental Protection in England has actually put on notice the Environment Agency, Ofwat and the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs for exactly what we're talking about now. And it's on an interesting point that they say:

'As a result of our investigations so far, we think there may have been misinterpretations of some key points of law. The core of the issue is that where we interpret the law to mean that untreated sewage discharges should generally be allowed only in exceptional circumstances, such as during unusually heavy rainfall, it appears that the public authorities may have interpreted the law differently, permitting such discharges to occur more often.'

This is not just a west Wales issue; it's an Ogmore issue, a Swansea issue, a UK issue as well.

WildFish, who I have a connection with as well, as does a colleague across the way there, because of our work on Atlantic salmon and other wild fish there, have also put the UK Government on notice. I wonder, Minister: what is your interpretation of the law on this? Is there wide interpretation of this, wider than it should be, and, if so, how do we make stricter the guidance on when discharges can actually happen?

Yn y lle hwn, pan fyddwn yn trafod materion fel hyn, un o’r breintiau sydd gennym yw’r gallu i ddeddfu. Weinidog, rwy'n sylwi bod Swyddfa Diogelu’r Amgylchedd yn Lloegr wedi rhoi rhybudd i Asiantaeth yr Amgylchedd, Ofwat ac Adran yr Amgylchedd, Bwyd a Materion Gwledig am yr un peth yn union ag y siaradwn amdano nawr. Ac ar bwynt diddorol, dywedant:

'O ganlyniad i'n hymchwiliadau hyd yn hyn, credwn y gallai rhai pwyntiau cyfreithiol allweddol fod wedi'u camddehongli. Craidd y mater yw pan fyddwn yn dehongli’r gyfraith i olygu mai dim ond mewn amgylchiadau eithriadol yn unig, yn gyffredinol, y dylid caniatáu gollwng carthion heb eu trin, megis yn ystod glawiad anarferol o drwm, ymddengys y gallai’r awdurdodau cyhoeddus fod wedi dehongli’r gyfraith yn wahanol, gan ganiatáu gollyngiadau o’r fath i ddigwydd yn amlach.'

Nid problem yng ngorllewin Cymru yn unig mo hon; mae'n broblem yn Ogwr, yn broblem yn Abertawe, ac yn broblem yn y DU hefyd.

Mae WildFish hefyd, y mae gennyf gysylltiad â nhw, fel sydd gan fy nghyd-Aelod, oherwydd ein gwaith ar eogiaid a physgod gwyllt eraill, wedi rhoi rhybudd i Lywodraeth y DU. Tybed, Weinidog: beth yw eich dehongliad o’r gyfraith ar hyn? A oes dehongliad eang o hyn, ehangach nag y dylai fod, ac os felly, sut mae gwneud y canllawiau'n fwy llym ynglŷn â pha bryd y gall gollyngiadau ddigwydd?

Yes, thank you, Huw. There are two issues here at play, in the legals of this, if you like. There are storm overflows with permits, and they have permit conditions, and there's an issue about whether they meet the criteria for the permit condition or not. And that's where the water company are required to investigate and improve the performance of a combined sewage overflow with permits. And the permits—you're quite right—say that they can only discharge at points where they're overwhelmed by the system, and there are specific things about each permit where they're allowed to do that.

So, there are issues where people are breaching the conditions of their permit. And, then, there are issues where there are combined sewage overflows that don't have a permit, because they're either not known or not monitored. And we have a very small number of those; I can provide the information to the Member if he wants to see it.

New CSOs in Wales are not created. We've made sustainable drainage systems mandatory on all new building developments—almost all new building developments, apart from very small ones. The whole point of that is to relieve pressure on the network by redirecting and slowing down the speed at which surface water enters the sewage system. Only yesterday, as part of the Welsh housing quality standard, I was informing the Senedd that we were putting water butts onto all the retrofitted social houses. There are 230,000 social houses in Wales, and I'd encourage everybody else to do it as well, by the way. That, of course, prevents all of the water hitting the roofs of the house from going into the sewage system, because it's run-off, with a large number of people who've done things like paved over their garden or their front garden. We all have a part to play in trying to minimise the amount of run-off from our roads systems that goes into our rivers.

And then the other thing to say as well is that I do not in any way take away from the impact of these spills into the rivers, because the impact is absolutely there. On nearly all of our special areas of conservation rivers, the highest polluter is agricultural run-off and not CSOs. And so there are a number of other things we need to do to make sure that our rivers can recover and one of them is addressing the pollution from agricultural run-off.

I have a summit at the end of November, in which we will be once again monitoring the action plan that we've agreed through the better river management groups and through the nutrient management boards. We have a whole system of things in place here in Wales to get ourselves into a better position. The First Minister has been very clear about this. We've asked each sector to stop pointing the finger at other sectors and to look to its own act and to make sure that it's doing everything they can. The water companies are both part of that summit and they will be being held to task there, and I have a series of meetings with them over the next four to six weeks. I don't think it's a misinterpretation. I think it's a creaking infrastructure incapable of dealing with the amount of stuff it's expected to deal with and with no proper strategic infrastructure investment plan to go with it. 

Ie, diolch, Huw. Mae dau fater yn codi yma, ar agweddau cyfreithiol hyn, os mynnwch. Ceir gorlifoedd storm sydd â thrwyddedau, ac mae ganddynt amodau i'w trwyddedau, ac mae mater yn codi ynglŷn ag a ydynt yn bodloni'r meini prawf ar gyfer amod y drwydded ai peidio. A dyna lle mae'n ofynnol i'r cwmni dŵr ymchwilio a gwella perfformiad gorlifoedd carthffosiaeth gyfun gyda thrwyddedau. Ac mae'r trwyddedau—rydych chi'n llygad eich lle—yn dweud mai dim ond ar adegau lle maent wedi'u gorlethu gan y system y gallant ganiatáu gollyngiadau, ac mae pethau penodol am bob trwydded lle cânt wneud hynny.

Felly, mae materion yn codi lle mae pobl yn torri amodau eu trwydded. Ac wedyn, mae materion yn codi lle ceir gorlifoedd carthffosiaeth gyfun nad oes ganddynt drwydded, am na wyddys amdanynt neu am nad ydynt yn cael eu monitro. Ac mae gennym nifer fach iawn o'r rheini; gallaf ddarparu’r wybodaeth i’r Aelod os hoffai ei gweld.

Nid oes gorlifoedd carthffosiaeth gyfun newydd yn cael eu creu yng Nghymru. Rydym wedi gwneud systemau draenio cynaliadwy yn orfodol ar bob datblygiad adeiladu newydd—bron bob datblygiad adeiladu newydd, ar wahân i rai bach iawn. Diben hynny yw lleddfu’r pwysau ar y rhwydwaith drwy ailgyfeirio ac arafu pa mor gyflym y mae dŵr wyneb yn mynd i mewn i’r system garthffosiaeth. Ddoe ddiwethaf, fel rhan o safon ansawdd tai Cymru, dywedais wrth y Senedd ein bod yn gosod casgenni dŵr ar yr holl dai cymdeithasol sy'n cael eu hôl-osod. Mae 230,000 o dai cymdeithasol yng Nghymru, a hoffwn annog pawb arall i'w wneud hefyd, gyda llaw. Mae hynny, wrth gwrs, yn atal yr holl ddŵr sy'n taro toeau’r tai rhag mynd i mewn i’r system garthffosiaeth, gan ei fod yn ddŵr ffo, gyda'r nifer fawr o bobl sydd wedi gwneud pethau fel palmantu dros eu gerddi neu eu gerddi blaen. Mae gan bob un ohonom ran i'w chwarae i geisio lleihau faint o ddŵr ffo o'n systemau ffyrdd sy'n mynd i mewn i'n hafonydd.

A'r peth arall i'w ddweud hefyd yw nad wyf mewn unrhyw ffordd yn anwybyddu effaith y gollyngiadau hyn i mewn i'r afonydd, gan fod yr effaith yno, yn sicr. Ar bron i bob un o’n hafonydd ardaloedd cadwraeth arbennig, y llygrwr mwyaf yw dŵr ffo amaethyddol, ac nid gorlifoedd carthffosiaeth gyfun. Ac felly mae nifer o bethau eraill y mae angen inni eu gwneud i sicrhau bod ein hafonydd yn gallu gwella, ac un ohonynt yw mynd i’r afael â’r llygredd o ddŵr ffo amaethyddol.

Mae gennyf uwchgynhadledd ddiwedd mis Tachwedd, lle byddwn unwaith eto yn monitro'r cynllun gweithredu rydym wedi cytuno arno drwy'r grwpiau rheoli afonydd yn well a thrwy'r byrddau rheoli maethynnau. Mae gennym system gyfan o bethau ar waith yma yng Nghymru i wella ein sefyllfa. Mae’r Prif Weinidog wedi bod yn glir iawn ynglŷn â hyn. Rydym wedi gofyn i bob sector roi'r gorau i bwyntio bys at sectorau eraill ac i edrych ar ei weithgarwch ei hun ac i sicrhau ei fod yn gwneud popeth yn ei allu. Mae’r cwmnïau dŵr ill dau yn rhan o’r uwchgynhadledd honno, a byddant yn cael eu dwyn i gyfrif yno, ac mae gennyf gyfres o gyfarfodydd gyda nhw dros y pedair i chwe wythnos nesaf. Ni chredaf ei fod yn gamddehongliad. Credaf ei fod yn seilwaith sy'n gwegian na all ymdopi â'r holl bethau y disgwylir iddo ymdrin â nhw heb unrhyw gynllun buddsoddi mewn seilwaith strategol priodol i gyd-fynd ag ef.

15:45

As somebody who's lived in Cardigan or Aberteifi, and who's family still does, I know the area really well, and I know also that it serves more than 7,000 of my constituents, and affects Afon Teifi and the Teifi bay, which are both SAC designated, and the illegal spills weren't one-off instances. And I want to thank Professor Hammond for the investigation that has brought all this to our attention, because without that we wouldn't be talking about it today.

I do recognise, Minister, and you've mentioned, that Dŵr Cymru are about to start a £20 million upgrade at Cardigan in 2025, and that is good news. But anyone who has lived in this area will know that you can smell the sewage if you walk along the river at the time that it is discharging. That is a fact. They will also know that individuals who have entered the water at the wrong time have also been extremely unwell. So I think there's a question here about individuals understanding when those discharges are being made into the river—not the sea at Poppit that you're talking about, which is the bar, but into the actual river—so that they don't get contaminated themselves. I think that's a key question. 

You've already started talking about SuDS and surface water run-off. Quite clearly, there might be a greater understanding, I hope, that will have come out of all these discussions on flooding today, to stop the water in the very first instance from getting into the drainage system. When you're reviewing the SuDS, Minister, which you will—sustainable urban drainage systems—we know at the moment that there are caveats in there that have removed the small builders from their obligations. Would you have a look at that? Because in rural areas like the one we're talking about, it will be the case that most additionality that flows into the joint systems—water systems, sewage systems—that we're now talking about will come from those very small buildings that don't necessarily happen on a large scale in any case. Thank you. 

Fel rhywun sydd wedi byw yn Aberteifi, a'i theulu'n dal i fyw yno, rwy'n adnabod yr ardal yn dda iawn, a gwn hefyd ei bod yn gwasanaethu mwy na 7,000 o fy etholwyr, ac yn effeithio ar afon Teifi a bae Teifi, sydd ill dau wedi’u dynodi’n ardaloedd cadwraeth arbennig, ac nid oedd y gollyngiadau anghyfreithlon yn achosion unigryw. A hoffwn ddiolch i'r Athro Hammond am yr ymchwiliad sydd wedi tynnu ein sylw at hyn, oherwydd heb hynny, ni fyddem yn siarad amdano heddiw.

Rwy’n cydnabod, Weinidog, ac rydych chi wedi sôn, fod Dŵr Cymru ar fin dechrau gwaith uwchraddio gwerth £20 miliwn yn Aberteifi yn 2025, ac mae hynny’n newyddion da. Ond bydd unrhyw un sydd wedi byw yn yr ardal yn gwybod y gallwch arogli'r carthion os ydych chi'n cerdded ar hyd yr afon pan fo'n gollwng. Mae hynny'n ffaith. Byddant hefyd yn gwybod bod unigolion sydd wedi bod yn y dŵr ar yr adeg anghywir wedi bod yn sâl iawn. Felly credaf fod cwestiwn yma ynglŷn ag unigolion yn deall pryd y mae'r gollyngiadau hynny'n cael eu gwneud i'r afon—nid y môr ar draeth Poppit rydych yn sôn amdano, sef y bar, ond i mewn i'r afon ei hun—fel nad ydynt yn cael eu halogi eu hunain. Rwy'n credu bod hwnnw’n gwestiwn allweddol.

Rydych chi eisoes wedi dechrau sôn am SDCau a dŵr wyneb ffo. Yn gwbl amlwg, efallai y bydd mwy o ddealltwriaeth, gobeithio, wedi dod o’r holl drafodaethau hyn ar lifogydd heddiw, i atal y dŵr rhag mynd i mewn i’r system ddraenio yn y lle cyntaf. Pan fyddwch yn adolygu'r SDCau, Weinidog, fel y byddwch yn ei wneud—systemau draenio cynaliadwy trefol—gwyddom ar hyn o bryd fod cafeatau yno sydd wedi cael gwared ar rwymedigaethau adeiladwyr bach. A wnewch chi gael golwg ar hynny? Oherwydd mewn ardaloedd gwledig fel yr un rydym yn sôn amdani, bydd y rhan fwyaf o'r pethau ychwanegol sy'n llifo i'r systemau cyfunol—systemau dŵr, systemau carthffosiaeth—yr ydym yn sôn amdanynt nawr yn dod o'r adeiladau bach iawn hynny nad ydynt o reidrwydd yn digwydd ar raddfa fawr beth bynnag. Diolch.

Diolch, Joyce. I just want to acknowledge your long-term campaign to prevent people paving over their front gardens in particular, and your campaign to bring awareness to people of what happens when they put impermeable covers on their front garden in particular, so that the run-off goes straight into the gullies, into the road, because those are where the biggest problems lie. As I know you're very well aware, I wrote out, at your request, to all local authorities in Wales just reminding them that, in point of fact, you need planning consent to pave over your front garden, and I really hope all Members will inform any constituent asking them, and perhaps put resources on their own websites and their own information pieces to tell people of the real damage that happens when people pave over their front garden and increase that run-off without thinking about it.

I certainly am reviewing the SuDS. We were severely criticised by the Conservatives and by the volume house builders when we brought SuDS in, but, actually, it was absolutely the right thing to do. And I think you're right; I think we should look at the exemption limit and whether we need to decrease that to make sure that people make sure that when they build houses, they deal with the run-off of water. And then, as I also said—and I know you're well aware, Joyce—we also need to tackle the other issues in our rivers, but we absolutely need to make sure that our water companies live up to their promise.

Just for Members' information, and this has clearly not been sufficient, but just for their information, in Dŵr Cymru's manifesto for rivers, they deliver over £840 million worth of improvements by 2025, and a further £1.4 billion by 2030, as part of their current price structure. We are, at the moment, in the current price review, where we are negotiating how much money they can put into investment, and where that money comes from, and this whole issue about bill payers paying. But without a very serious change of policy at UK Government level, there will be little we can do to stop bills increasing if we want the kind of level of infrastructure investment we actually need to prevent this kind of appalling pollution happening in our rivers.

Diolch, Joyce. Hoffwn gydnabod eich ymgyrch hirdymor i atal pobl rhag palmantu dros eu gerddi blaen yn enwedig, a’ch ymgyrch i ddod ag ymwybyddiaeth i bobl o’r hyn sy’n digwydd pan fyddant yn rhoi gorchuddion anhydraidd ar eu gardd flaen, fel bod y dŵr ffo'n mynd yn syth i mewn i'r cwteri, i mewn i'r ffordd, gan mai dyna ble mae'r problemau mwyaf. Fel y gwn eich bod yn gwybod yn iawn, ar eich cais chi, fe ysgrifennais at bob awdurdod lleol yng Nghymru i'w hatgoffa bod angen caniatâd cynllunio arnoch i balmantu dros eich gardd flaen, ac rwy'n mawr obeithio y bydd yr Aelodau’n dweud hynny wrth unrhyw etholwr sy'n gofyn iddynt, ac efallai’n rhoi adnoddau ar eu gwefannau eu hunain ac yn cyhoeddi eu gwybodaeth eu hunain i ddweud wrth bobl am y difrod gwirioneddol sy’n digwydd pan fydd pobl yn palmantu dros eu gardd flaen ac yn cynyddu’r dŵr ffo hwnnw heb feddwl am y peth.

Rwy'n sicr yn adolygu'r SDCau. Cawsom ein beirniadu’n hallt gan y Ceidwadwyr a chan y cwmnïau adeiladu tai mawr pan gyflwynwyd SDCau gennym, ond yn bendant, dyna oedd y peth iawn i’w wneud. A chredaf eich bod yn iawn; rwy'n credu y dylem edrych ar y terfyn eithrio ac a oes angen inni ostwng hwnnw i sicrhau bod pobl yn gwneud yn siŵr, pan fyddant yn adeiladu tai, eu bod yn ymdrin â’r dŵr ffo. Ac yna, fel y dywedais hefyd—a gwn eich bod yn ymwybodol iawn o hyn, Joyce—mae angen inni fynd i'r afael â'r materion eraill yn ein hafonydd hefyd, ond mae gwir angen inni sicrhau bod ein cwmnïau dŵr yn cadw at eu haddewid.

Er gwybodaeth i’r Aelodau, ac mae’n amlwg nad yw hyn wedi bod yn ddigonol, ond er gwybodaeth iddynt, ym maniffesto Dŵr Cymru ar gyfer afonydd, maent yn cyflawni gwerth dros £840 miliwn o welliannau erbyn 2025, a £1.4 biliwn arall erbyn 2030, fel rhan o'u strwythur prisiau presennol. Rydym ar hyn o bryd yn yr adolygiad o brisiau cyfredol, lle rydym yn trafod faint o arian y gallant ei roi i fuddsoddi, ac o ble y daw’r arian hwnnw, a’r holl fater ynglŷn â thalwyr biliau'n talu. Ond heb newid mawr yn y polisi ar lefel Llywodraeth y DU, ychydig iawn y gallwn ei wneud i atal biliau rhag cynyddu os ydym am gael y math o fuddsoddiad mewn seilwaith sydd ei angen arnom mewn gwirionedd i atal y math hwn o lygredd echrydus rhag digwydd yn ein hafonydd.

15:50
4. Datganiadau 90 Eiliad
4. 90-second Statements

Eitem 4 yw'r datganiadau 90 eiliad, ac yn gyntaf Alun Davies.

Item 4 is the 90-second statements, and first of all we have Alun Davies.

Diolch, Deputy Presiding Officer. Perhaps Roy Francis isn't the first name that springs to mind when listing our rugby greats, yet he was Great Britain's first black player, and the first black head coach of a top-tier professional team. He was born in 1919, and initially started playing rugby union for Brynmawr. At 17, he was one of the first black rugby league players, when he switched codes to join Wigan. His playing career was interrupted by the war, where he served helping to rehabilitate wounded soldiers. It was here that he started to learn some of the coaching techniques that would define his legacy. At the end of the war, he rejoined Barrow, and his form saw him soon called up to the Great Britain squad. In 1947, he became Great Britain's first black player, scoring two tries against New Zealand. When he finally retired as a player in 1955, he was able to look back on a remarkable record of 229 tries in 356 games. After his playing career, he coached Hull to the championship title in 1956 and 1958, and Leeds to the Challenge Cup in 1968. After a spell in Australia, he returned to Leeds and won the premiership in 1974.

If his playing career impressed, then his coaching career influenced and shaped the game by using techniques well ahead of his time, with diet and filming games and training sessions being some of his innovations. He retired in 1977, and we lost him in 1989. More than 30 years on from his death, Roy Francis is now recognised with a statue in his home town. In 2018, he was inducted into the Welsh sports hall of fame. This follows the unveiling of a statue of fellow Welsh black rugby league players Billy Boston, Clive Sullivan, along with Gus Risman, in Cardiff, and it is a fitting way to mark Black History Month. Congratulations to everybody in Brynmawr who worked hard to remember Roy. Roy has come home.

Diolch, Ddirprwy Lywydd. Efallai nad Roy Francis yw’r enw cyntaf sy’n dod i’r meddwl wrth restru ein mawrion rygbi, ac eto, ef oedd chwaraewr du cyntaf Prydain, a'r prif hyfforddwr du cyntaf ar dîm proffesiynol haen uchaf. Cafodd ei eni ym 1919, a dechreuodd chwarae rygbi'r undeb i Fryn-mawr. Yn 17 oed, ef oedd un o chwaraewyr du cyntaf rygbi'r gynghrair, pan newidiodd godau i ymuno â Wigan. Amharwyd ar ei yrfa chwarae gan y rhyfel, lle bu'n gwasanaethu drwy helpu i adsefydlu milwyr wedi'u hanafu. Yma y dechreuodd ddysgu rhai o'r technegau hyfforddi a fyddai'n diffinio ei waddol. Ar ddiwedd y rhyfel, ailymunodd â Barrow, ac arweiniodd ei berfformiadau at alwad i garfan Prydain. Ym 1947, daeth yn chwaraewr du cyntaf Prydain, gan sgorio dau gais yn erbyn Seland Newydd. Pan ymddeolodd fel chwaraewr ym 1955, gallai edrych yn ôl ar gyflawniad rhyfeddol o 229 o geisiadau mewn 356 o gemau. Ar ôl ei yrfa fel chwaraewr, bu'n hyfforddi Hull, a enillodd y bencampwriaeth ym 1956 a 1958, a Leeds a enillodd y Cwpan Her ym 1968. Ar ôl cyfnod yn Awstralia, dychwelodd at Leeds, a enillodd y gynghrair ym 1974.

Os oedd ei yrfa fel chwaraewr yn drawiadol, bu ei yrfa hyfforddi'n ddylanwad mawr ar y gêm, drwy ei ddefnydd o dechnegau ymhell o flaen ei amser, gyda deiet a ffilmio gemau a sesiynau hyfforddi yn rhai o'i ddatblygiadau arloesol. Ymddeolodd ym 1977, a bu farw ym 1989. Dros 30 mlynedd ar ôl ei farwolaeth, mae Roy Francis bellach yn cael ei gydnabod â cherflun yn ei dref enedigol. Yn 2018, cafodd ei gynnwys yn oriel anfarwolion chwaraeon Cymru. Daw hyn yn dilyn dadorchuddio cerflun o chwaraewyr rygbi’r gynghrair du eraill Cymru, Billy Boston, Clive Sullivan, ynghyd â Gus Risman, yng Nghaerdydd, ac mae’n ffordd addas o nodi Mis Hanes Pobl Ddu. Llongyfarchiadau i bawb ym Mryn-mawr a weithiodd yn galed i gofio Roy. Mae Roy wedi dod adref.

Next month, the Newport Rising festival will be held to commemorate the anniversary of the Newport Chartist rising. It will remember the thousands of Chartists who marched through Newport on 4 November 1839 in an effort to demand better voting rights and to expand who was able to play a part in politics. At least 22 people lost their lives that day in the struggle for democratic reform, and though the vision they put forward for democracy, for community and greater equality was not achieved directly by the Chartist movement, it arguably laid the ground work for future suffrage. So, in tribute to this significant day in Welsh history, Newport Rising will be holding a festival for its sixth year. It is a non-profit festival delivered by a very small group and volunteers, and it will offer a range of activities, from music and film to talks and workshops. And, of course, the annual torchlit procession will follow the path the Chartists took through Newport.

Fis nesaf, bydd gŵyl Gwrthryfel Casnewydd yn cael ei chynnal i goffáu gwrthryfel y Siartwyr yng Nghasnewydd. Bydd yn cofio’r miloedd o Siartwyr a orymdeithiodd drwy Gasnewydd ar 4 Tachwedd 1839 mewn ymdrech i fynnu gwell hawliau pleidleisio ac i sicrhau bod mwy o bobl yn gallu cymryd rhan mewn gwleidyddiaeth. Collodd o leiaf 22 o bobl eu bywydau y diwrnod hwnnw yn y frwydr dros ddiwygio democrataidd, ac er nas gwireddwyd y weledigaeth a gynigiwyd ganddynt ar gyfer democratiaeth, cymuned a mwy o gydraddoldeb yn uniongyrchol gan fudiad y Siartwyr, gellir dadlau iddynt osod y sylfaen ar gyfer yr hawl i bleidleisio yn y dyfodol. Felly, i dalu teyrnged i’r diwrnod arwyddocaol hwn yn hanes Cymru, bydd Gwrthryfel Casnewydd yn cynnal gŵyl am ei chweched flwyddyn. Mae’n ŵyl ddi-elw a gynhelir gan grŵp bach iawn o bobl a gwirfoddolwyr, a bydd yn cynnig amrywiaeth o weithgareddau, o gerddoriaeth a ffilm i sgyrsiau a gweithdai. Ac wrth gwrs, bydd yr orymdaith flynyddol yng ngolau ffagl yn dilyn llwybr y Siartwyr drwy Gasnewydd.

Mae'n ddathliad o Gymru a'n hanes lliwgar, o Gasnewydd a'i chymunedau, ac yn gyfle, efallai, i ni oll feddwl am rai o'r hawliau rŷm ni'n rhy dueddol o'u cymryd yn ganiataol. Felly, pob lwc i bawb sydd yn mynd i fod yn rhan o'r digwyddiad pwysig yma.

It is a celebration of Wales and our colourful history, of Newport and its communities, and it's an opportunity, perhaps, for all of us to think about some of the rights we are all too prone to take for granted. So, good luck to everyone who's going to be participating in this important event.

15:55

Today marks International Dwarfism Awareness Day. This is a wonderful opportunity to celebrate and to raise awareness of the challenges faced on a day-to-day basis. Today, people with dwarfism all over the world still face so many barriers that can stand in the way of opportunities and choices. People with dwarfism have every right to live as independently and confidently as anyone.

The twenty-fifth of October was chosen as a day for dwarfism awareness because it was the birthday of Billy Barty. He set up Little People of America in 1957, an organisation that supports people with dwarfism as well as raising awareness. Little People UK was then co-founded in January 2012 by actor Warwick Davis, his wife Samantha, and a group of individuals with the same goal: to offer friendship and support to people with dwarfism, their families, friends, and help build a positive future.

Newport's very own Danielle Webb, vice-chairperson of Little People UK, is a fantastic and inspirational campaigner. Danielle is working hard to share her experiences with people around her and in the community to make places more adapting. Danielle is also a two-time author of children's books, Mummy There's a New Girl and Short Perspectives, encouraging schoolchildren to promote diversity and disability awareness within children's literature and education. I'm honoured to be sponsoring Wales's first official Dwarfism Awareness Day event at the Senedd this evening, with the help of the wonderful Danielle Webb. I hope this evening in the Senedd we can all listen and learn from little people, to understand what we need to break down barriers that all too often prevent them from achieving their full potential.

Mae heddiw’n nodi Diwrnod Rhyngwladol Ymwybyddiaeth Corachedd. Mae hwn yn gyfle gwych i ddathlu ac i godi ymwybyddiaeth o'r heriau a wynebir o ddydd i ddydd. Heddiw, mae pobl â chorachedd ledled y byd yn dal i wynebu cymaint o rwystrau a all atal cyfleoedd a dewisiadau. Mae gan bobl â chorachedd bob hawl i fyw mor annibynnol a hyderus ag unrhyw un.

Dewiswyd 25 Hydref fel diwrnod ar gyfer ymwybyddiaeth o gorachedd am mai dyma oedd dyddiad pen-blwydd Billy Barty. Sefydlodd Little People of America ym 1957, sefydliad sy'n cefnogi pobl â chorachedd yn ogystal â chodi ymwybyddiaeth. Yna, cyd-sefydlwyd Little People UK ym mis Ionawr 2012 gan yr actor Warwick Davis, ei wraig Samantha, a grŵp o unigolion gyda'r un nod: cynnig cyfeillgarwch a chefnogaeth i bobl â chorachedd, eu teuluoedd, eu ffrindiau, a helpu i adeiladu dyfodol cadarnhaol.

Mae Danielle Webb o Gasnewydd, is-gadeirydd Little People UK, yn ymgyrchydd gwych ac ysbrydoledig. Mae Danielle yn gweithio'n galed i rannu ei phrofiadau gyda phobl o'i chwmpas ac yn y gymuned i wneud lleoedd yn fwy parod i addasu. Mae Danielle hefyd yn awdur dau lyfr plant, Mummy There's a New Girl a Short Perspectives, sy'n annog plant ysgol i hyrwyddo amrywiaeth ac ymwybyddiaeth o anabledd mewn llenyddiaeth ac addysg plant. Mae’n anrhydedd imi gael noddi digwyddiad swyddogol cyntaf Cymru ar gyfer Diwrnod Ymwybyddiaeth Corachedd yn y Senedd heno, gyda chymorth Danielle Webb. Yn y Senedd heno, rwy'n gobeithio y gallwn wrando a dysgu gan bobl fach, er mwyn deall beth sydd ei angen arnom i chwalu rhwystrau sy’n rhy aml o lawer yn eu hatal rhag cyflawni eu potensial llawn.

5. Dadl Aelodau o dan Reol Sefydlog 11.21(iv): Yr Holodomor
5. Member Debate under Standing Order 11.21(iv): The Holodomor

Eitem 5 yw'r ddadl Aelodau o dan Reol Sefydlog 11.21(iv) ar yr Holodomor, a galwaf ar Alun Davies i wneud y cynnig.

Item 5 is the Member debate under Standing Order 11.21(iv) on the Holodomor, and I call on Alun Davies to move the motion.

Cynnig NDM8381 Alun Davies, Darren Millar, Heledd Fychan

Cynnig bod y Senedd:

1. Yn credu bod yr Holodomor yn drosedd a bennwyd ymlaen llaw, a gyflawnwyd ac a arweiniwyd gan Stalin a'r Llywodraeth Sofietaidd yn erbyn pobl Wcráin.

2. Yn ystyried bod yr Holodomor yn weithred o hil-laddiad.

3. Yn nodi rôl hollbwysig y newyddiadurwr o Gymru, Gareth Jones, wrth ddod â chreulondeb yr Holodomor i sylw'r byd.

4. Yn parhau i sefyll gyda phobl Wcráin wrth iddynt wynebu rhyfel anghyfreithlon Putin.

Motion NDM8381 Alun Davies, Darren Millar, Heledd Fychan

To propose that the Senedd:

1. Believes that the Holodomor was a predetermined crime committed and led by Stalin and the Soviet Government against the people of Ukraine.

2. Regards the Holodomor as an act of genocide.

3. Notes the crucial role of Welsh journalist Gareth Jones in bringing the cruelty of the Holodomor to the attention of the world.

4. Continues to stand with the people of the Ukraine as they face Putin's illegal war.

Cynigiwyd y cynnig.

Motion moved.

Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer. The memory of the Holodomor resonates down the years, as we remember Soviet violence 90 years ago and witness the violence of Russian aggression today. This debate is timely, because it isn't simply a historical exercise.

The Holodomor is a Ukrainian word that means to inflict death by hunger. Today, we use it to mean the entire Stalinist campaign to eliminate the Ukrainian nation, which culminated in the forced famine of 1932 and 1933, which killed millions of Ukrainians. The exact number of people lost, of course, is not known, because the Soviet Union refused to allow the reporting of the famine, but it's estimated that 7 million, and may be as many as 10 million, people died in Ukraine, with many more deaths in the neighbouring Soviet states. And let us be absolutely clear, Deputy Presiding Officer, this was not a natural disaster, nor was it an act of God and nor was it a misfortune. It was a deliberate policy designed to eliminate the Ukrainian rural population, who were the embodiment and spirit of Ukrainian culture and nationhood.

It remains Ukraine's silent massacre—a horrific man-made disaster on an unimaginable scale, brought about by Soviet policies. At the height of the famine, 25,000 people died every day of starvation, including children too small to feed themselves. Some people tried to commit suicide to escape the horror of starving to death. Those who refused to steal or leave died of hunger. Those who tried to steal were shot. Those who tried to leave were returned to their villages to face the same impossible choices again. Villagers turned to cannibalism to survive. The dead were unburied and the sick untended. These are difficult subjects to discuss and difficult things to hear, but it is crucial that we appreciate and understand the scale of the suffering.

The main goal of the artificial famine was to ethnically cleanse Ukrainians from vast areas of Ukraine. And let us be in no doubt, Deputy Presiding Officer, this was genocide.

In 1948, in the shadow of the Holocaust, the United Nations genocide convention was adopted, and it defined genocide as an act committed with the intent to destroy in whole, or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group. Whatever the definition adopted, this reaches the threshold for genocide, and we need to say that and we need to say it clearly from this Parliament this afternoon. As with the war today, there was a clear perpetrator behind the famine—Stalin yesterday and Putin today. Stalin's motivation was to transform and to mould the Ukrainian nation in his own image at any cost, and it is mirrored in Putin's warped imperialistic world view today. 

Putin's misguided and perverse attempts to wipe Ukrainian identity from the world are the most recent manifestations of Russia's penchant for interference, subjugation, war and atrocity. Russian attacks on Ukrainian nationhood and identity continue to take place today. We continue to see those attacks on the Ukrainian nation. And we should remember that since 2014, thousands have been killed by Putin's forces. Since the full-scale invasion, over 50 per cent of Ukraine's pre-war population—21 million—have needed humanitarian assistance either inside or outside Ukraine. We should remember the scale of the impact of this on people, on communities, on the people of Ukraine, but also recognise how people across the world have reached out to Ukraine in order to support them at this time. Russian forces have attacked Ukrainian hospitals, schools and energy supplies, leaving cities in ruins and people running for their lives. It draws clear parallels with the 1930s in terms of the scale of the impact and the effect it's had on the human population. 

This debate carries particular weight this afternoon, Deputy Presiding Officer, because much of what we know is because of the bravery of one Welshman, Gareth Jones. Gareth Jones defied Soviet attempts to censor him and reported the truth of what was happening to millions. The Kremlin, of course, continued to deny the existence of the famine, and yet the mendacious campaign that tried to silence Gareth could not. We're grateful to the journalist Martin Shipton for writing about Gareth's bravery and about the role that Gareth played in bringing this news to the world. We're grateful also to those who have remembered Gareth, where a plaque in his memory was unveiled in Kiyv earlier this autumn.

I'm proud that the Welsh Government—. And I thank the Government of Wales for continuing to support the work to remember what is happening in Ukraine. I'm proud of the leadership of Mick Antoniw, who has led the Welsh Government and this Parliament so often over the last few months and years in supporting and standing up for the people of Ukraine. I'm proud also of Members on all sides of this Chamber who have united, put party politics and party differences to one side, to stand up for the people of Ukraine. It is important, because if we do not confront and accept the tragedies of history, we are doomed to repeat them. Throughout its history, Ukraine has been in a fight for its survival against Russia. There is a pattern of behaviour where Russia has tried to simply wipe out Ukraine as a nation.

Deputy Presiding Officer, it tried to do it 90 years ago. It is trying to do the same today. Unless we understand and appreciate the historical context, we do not understand the significance of what is happening today. I know the Welsh Government will continue to show unwavering solidarity with the people of Ukraine in remembering this tragedy, and will continue to stand squarely behind Ukraine in its defence of its sovereignty and its people's rights. When I travel to Ukraine tomorrow, I travel with the goodwill of Members on all sides of this Chamber, and from all communities of this country. The people of Ukraine recognise and are grateful to all of us for that support and for that solidarity. In months and years to come, that will be tested and needed again, and I'm absolutely confident that Members on all sides of this Chamber will not be found wanting. Thank you very much.

Diolch, Ddirprwy Lywydd. Mae cof am yr Holodomor yn atseinio ar hyd y blynyddoedd, wrth inni gofio trais Sofietaidd 90 mlynedd yn ôl a gweld ffyrnigrwydd ymosodiad Rwsia heddiw. Mae’r ddadl hon yn amserol, gan ei bod yn fwy nag ymarfer hanesyddol yn unig.

Gair Wcreineg yw Holodomor sy'n golygu achosi marwolaeth drwy newyn. Heddiw, rydym yn ei ddefnyddio i gyfeirio at yr ymgyrch Stalinaidd i ddileu'r genedl Wcreinaidd, a arweiniodd at newyn gorfodol 1932 a 1933, a laddodd filiynau o Wcreiniaid. Wrth gwrs, nid yw union nifer y bobl a gollwyd yn hysbys, gan i'r Undeb Sofietaidd wrthod caniatáu adrodd am y newyn, ond amcangyfrifir bod 7 miliwn, ac efallai cymaint â 10 miliwn, wedi marw yn Wcráin, gyda llawer mwy o farwolaethau yn y taleithiau Sofietaidd cyfagos. A gadewch inni fod yn gwbl glir, Ddirprwy Lywydd, nid trychineb naturiol oedd hwn, na gweithred gan Dduw nac anffawd ychwaith. Roedd yn bolisi bwriadol a luniwyd i ddileu poblogaeth wledig Wcráin, a oedd yn ymgorfforiad o ysbryd diwylliant a chenedligrwydd Wcreinaidd.

Dyma laddfa dawel Wcráin—trychineb erchyll bwriadol ar raddfa annirnadwy o ganlyniad i bolisïau Sofietaidd. Ar anterth y newyn, roedd 25,000 o bobl yn marw o newyn bob dydd, gan gynnwys plant a oedd yn rhy fach i fwydo eu hunain. Ceisiodd rhai pobl ladd eu hunain i osgoi gorfod marw o newyn. Roedd y rhai a oedd yn gwrthod dwyn neu adael yn marw o newyn. Roedd y rhai a oedd yn ceisio dwyn yn cael eu saethu. Roedd y rhai a oedd yn ceisio gadael yn gorfod dychwelyd i'w pentrefi i wynebu'r un dewisiadau amhosibl eto. Trodd pentrefwyr at ganibaliaeth i oroesi. Cafodd y meirw eu gadael heb eu claddu, a'r bobl sâl heb neb i ofalu amdanynt. Mae’r rhain yn bynciau anodd eu trafod ac yn bethau anodd eu clywed, ond mae’n hollbwysig ein bod yn sylweddoli ac yn deall maint y dioddefaint.

Prif nod y newyn artiffisial oedd cael gwared ag Wcreiniaid o ardaloedd helaeth o Wcráin drwy lanhau ethnig. A Ddirprwy Lywydd, gadewch inni fod yn glir mai hil-laddiad oedd hyn.

Ym 1948, yng nghysgod yr Holocost, mabwysiadwyd confensiwn y Cenhedloedd Unedig ar hil-laddiad a ddiffiniodd hil-laddiad fel gweithred a gyflawnwyd gyda'r bwriad o ddinistrio yn gyfan gwbl, neu'n rhannol, grŵp cenedlaethol, ethnig, hil neu grefyddol. Ni waeth pa ddiffiniad a fabwysiadwyd, mae hyn yn cyrraedd y trothwy ar gyfer cael ei ystyried yn hil-laddiad, ac mae angen inni ddweud hynny ac mae angen inni ei ddweud yn glir fel Senedd y prynhawn yma. Yn yr un modd â'r rhyfel heddiw, roedd unigolyn amlwg yn gyfrifol am y newyn—Stalin ddoe a Putin heddiw. Cymhelliant Stalin oedd trawsnewid a llunio cenedl Wcráin yn ei ddelwedd ei hun ar unrhyw gost, ac adlewyrchir hynny yng myd-olwg imperialaidd ffiaidd Putin heddiw.

Ymdrechion cyfeiliornus a gwrthnysig Putin i ddileu hunaniaeth Wcráin o’r byd yw’r enghreifftiau diweddaraf o hoffter Rwsia o ymyrraeth, gorchfygiad, rhyfel ac erchyllterau. Mae ymosodiadau Rwsia ar genedligrwydd a hunaniaeth Wcreinaidd yn parhau hyd heddiw. Rydym yn parhau i weld yr ymosodiadau ar Wcráin. A dylem gofio, ers 2014, fod miloedd wedi'u lladd gan luoedd Putin. Ers yr ymosodiad llawn, mae dros 50 y cant o boblogaeth Wcráin cyn y rhyfel—21 miliwn—wedi gorfod cael cymorth dyngarol naill ai yn Wcráin neu’r tu allan. Dylem gofio maint effaith hyn ar bobl, ar gymunedau, ar bobl Wcráin, ond dylem hefyd gydnabod sut mae pobl ledled y byd wedi estyn allan at Wcráin er mwyn eu cefnogi ar yr adeg hon. Mae lluoedd Rwsia wedi ymosod ar ysbytai, ysgolion a chyflenwadau ynni Wcráin, gan adael dinasoedd yn adfeilion a phobl yn rhedeg am eu bywydau. Mae'n debyg iawn i'r 1930au o ran maint yr effaith a gafodd ar y boblogaeth ddynol.

Mae pwysigrwydd arbennig i’r ddadl hon y prynhawn yma, Ddirprwy Lywydd, oherwydd dewrder un Cymro, Gareth Jones, sy’n gyfrifol am lawer o’r hyn a wyddom. Heriodd Gareth Jones ymdrechion Sofietaidd i'w sensro, gan adrodd gwirionedd yr hyn a oedd yn digwydd i filiynau o bobl. Parhaodd y Kremlin, wrth gwrs, i wadu bodolaeth y newyn, ac eto, ni lwyddodd yr ymgyrch gelwyddog i geisio tawelu Gareth. Rydym yn ddiolchgar i’r newyddiadurwr Martin Shipton am ysgrifennu am ddewrder Gareth ac am y rhan a chwaraeodd Gareth yn dod â’r newyddion hwn i’r byd. Rydym yn ddiolchgar hefyd i'r rhai sydd wedi cofio Gareth, lle cafodd plac er cof amdano ei ddadorchuddio yn Kiyv yn gynharach yr hydref hwn.

Rwy'n falch fod Llywodraeth Cymru—. Ac rwy’n ddiolchgar i Lywodraeth Cymru am barhau i gefnogi’r gwaith i gofio'r hyn sy’n digwydd yn Wcráin. Rwy’n falch o arweinyddiaeth Mick Antoniw, sydd wedi arwain Llywodraeth Cymru a’r Senedd hon mor aml dros y misoedd a’r blynyddoedd diwethaf wrth gefnogi a sefyll dros bobl Wcráin. Rwy’n falch hefyd o Aelodau ar bob ochr i’r Siambr hon sydd wedi dod ynghyd, wedi rhoi gwleidyddiaeth bleidiol a gwahaniaethau pleidiol i’r naill ochr, i sefyll dros bobl Wcráin. Mae’n bwysig, oherwydd os na wnawn wynebu trasiedïau hanes, rydym yn sicr o’u hailadrodd. Drwy gydol ei hanes, mae Wcráin wedi bod yn brwydro i oroesi yn erbyn Rwsia. Ceir patrwm o ymddygiad lle mae Rwsia wedi ceisio dileu Wcráin fel cenedl.

Ddirprwy Lywydd, ceisiodd wneud hynny 90 mlynedd yn ôl. Mae'n ceisio gwneud yr un peth heddiw. Oni bai ein bod yn deall y cyd-destun hanesyddol, nid ydym yn deall arwyddocâd yr hyn sy’n digwydd heddiw. Gwn y bydd Llywodraeth Cymru yn parhau i ddangos undod diwyro â phobl Wcráin wrth gofio’r drasiedi hon, ac y bydd yn parhau i sefyll gydag Wcráin i amddiffyn ei sofraniaeth a hawliau ei phobl. Pan fyddaf yn teithio i Wcráin yfory, byddaf yn teithio gydag ewyllys da Aelodau o bob ochr i’r Siambr hon, a holl gymunedau’r wlad hon. Mae pobl Wcráin yn cydnabod ac yn ddiolchgar i bob un ohonom am y gefnogaeth honno ac am yr undod hwnnw. Mewn misoedd a blynyddoedd i ddod, bydd hynny’n cael ei brofi a bydd ei angen eto, ac rwy’n gwbl hyderus na fydd Aelodau ar bob ochr i’r Siambr hon yn brin o gefnogaeth. Diolch yn fawr iawn.

16:00

A gaf i ddiolch i Alun Davies am gyflwyno’r ddadl hon—roeddwn i’n falch o allu ei chefnogi—ond hefyd am y ffordd y gwnaeth o gyflwyno’r ddadl heddiw? Mae o’n bwysig eithriadol, fel dŷch chi’n amlinellu, ein bod ni’n cofio, a hefyd, byddai rhywun yn gobeithio, yn dysgu gwersi o’r gorffennol. Ond yn anffodus, dydy hynny ddim yn digwydd, a dyna pam dŷn ni’n gweld y sefyllfa bresennol fel mae hi.

Fel chithau, dwi’n meddwl ei fod o’n bwysig ein bod ni yn defnyddio’r gair priodol o ‘hil-laddiad’, oherwydd dyna oedd hyn, ac yn bwysig bod Seneddau fel y Senedd hon yn adlewyrchu hefyd y pwysigrwydd dewisiadau gwleidyddol a phenderfyniadau gwleidyddol, a beth mae hynny yn ei olygu i unigolion. Oherwydd dŷn ni’n gweld dro ar ôl tro fod pobl ddim, yn anffodus, yn dysgu gwersi. Dŷn ni’n gallu condemnio’r gorffennol, ond mi gawn ni ein barnu ar yr hyn sy’n digwydd yn y presennol.

Un o’r pethau y gwnes i adlewyrchu arno fo wrth siarad efo Sioned Williams yn gynharach oedd ein bod ni’n cydnabod, wrth gwrs, ddewrder Gareth Jones, a’r ffaith y gwnaeth o farw mor ifanc oherwydd ei ddewrder hefyd, a’i fod o’n llais unigol, yn amlwg, a’r heriau a fyddai wedi bod o ran cael y stori yna allan ar y pryd, a chyferbynnu hynny gyda’r presennol rŵan, lle dŷch chi’n gallu mynd ar y cyfryngau cymdeithasol a gweld, o fewn eiliadau, ddigwyddiadau, neu weld live stream, yn y presennol. A dŷch chi’n hoffi meddwl, os byddai pobl wedi gwybod, y byddai pethau’n wahanol. Mae’n rhywbeth dŷch chi’n gallu adlewyrchu arno fo pan dŷch chi’n dysgu am hanes yn yr ysgol. Beth fyddai wedi digwydd pe byddai pobl yn gwybod? Beth fyddem ni wedi’i wneud? Wel, mae hwn yn gwestiwn i ni i gyd adlewyrchu arno fo rŵan, a dwi’n meddwl bod y ffaith ein bod ni’n trafod fan hyn rhywbeth sydd wedi digwydd 90 mlynedd yn ôl, ac yn ei gysylltu fo efo’r presennol, yn eithriadol o bwysig. Oherwydd mae’r erchyllterau presennol â gwreiddiau llawer, llawer dyfnach yma, a dyna pam dŷn ni wedi bod eisiau sicrhau bod hanes ar y cwricwlwm ac ati, oherwydd eich bod chi’n gobeithio am fywyd gwell, a'ch bod chi’n mynd i obeithio bod erchyllterau fel hyn ddim yn mynd i ddigwydd, ond maen nhw.

O ran y gwirionedd, un o’r pethau y byddem ni’n gobeithio y gallwn ni ei wneud ydy parhau, wrth gwrs, i herio o ran yr hyn sy’n digwydd yn Wcráin rŵan, i wneud y cysylltiad yna gyda hil-laddiad, ond hefyd i sicrhau ein bod ni’n llais parhaus o ran y bobl hynny sy’n parhau i ddioddef, a hefyd, wrth gwrs, gyda chymaint rŵan wedi ymgartrefi yma yng Nghymru, a ddim yn gwybod beth sydd wedi digwydd i’w hanwyliaid nhw. Felly, dwi’n falch ein bod ni’n cymryd yr amser yma i adlewyrchu heddiw, oherwydd adlewyrchu yr ydyn ni, ond gobeithio hefyd ein bod ni yn meddwl am bawb sydd yn parhau i ddioddef oherwydd dewisiadau gwleidyddol ledled y byd, a’n bod ni heddiw yn sicr ein bod ni ddim yn mynd i beidio â gwrando na chofio, na chwaith ddefnyddio ein llais rhyngwladol ni er mwyn mynnu gwell i bawb.

May I thank Alun Davies for introducing this debate—I was pleased to co-submit—but also for the way he opened the debate today? It is extremely important, as you have outlined, that we do not only remember, but also, one would hope, relearn lessons from the past. But unfortunately, that isn’t happening, and that’s why we’ve seen the situation develop as it has.

Like you, I think it’s important that we do use the appropriate word, ‘genocide’, because that is what this was. And it’s important that Parliaments such as this Parliament reflect on the importance of political choices and decisions, and what that means for individuals. Because we see time and time again that people, unfortunately, don’t learn the lessons of history. We can condemn the past, but we will be judged on what happens in the present.

One of the things that I reflected on in speaking to Sioned Williams earlier on was that we of course recognise the bravery of Gareth Jones, and the fact that he died so young because of his courage, and that he was a single voice, and the challenges that he would have faced in getting the story out at the time, and then we compare that with the present, where you can go on social media and see in seconds, or even see a live stream, of events as they happen. And you’d like to think that if people had known, then things would have been different. It’s something that you can reflect on when you do learn about history in school. What would have happened if people were aware? What would we have done? Well, that’s a question that we should all reflect on now, and I think that the fact that we are having this discussion about something that happened 90 years ago, but linking it to the present, is extremely important. Because the current atrocities have these far deeper roots, and that’s why we have sought to ensure that history is reflected in the curriculum and so on, because you are hoping for a better future. You would hope that such atrocities wouldn’t happen, but they do.

In terms of truth, one of the things that I would hope we could do is to continue to challenge what’s happening in Ukraine now, to make that connection with genocide, but also to ensure that we are a consistent voice for those people who continue to suffer, of course, with so many having made their homes here in Wales, not knowing what’s happened to their loved ones. So, I am pleased that we are taking this time to reflect this afternoon, because we are reflecting on these issues, but I also hope that we are thinking about everyone who continues to suffer because of political choices taken across the globe, and that today we should be certain that we should continue to listen, continue to remember, and to use our international voice to insist on a better future for everyone.

16:05

Y Cwnsler Cyffredinol a Gweinidog y Cyfansoddiad, Mick Antoniw. 

The Counsel General and Minister for the Constitution, Mick Antoniw. 

Diolch i Alun Davies, Darren Millar a Heledd Fychan am gyflwyno'r ddadl bwysig hon ar ran pob prif blaid wleidyddol yn y Senedd. Rwy'n credu bod y gefnogaeth drawsbleidiol hon yn dangos undod ein cefnogaeth i bobl Wcráin a'n gwrthsafiad i ymosodiad Rwsia. 

Ar y pedwerydd dydd Sadwrn bob mis Tachwedd, mae'r Holodomor yn cael ei goffa yn rhyngwladol, ac mae Llywodraeth Cymru wedi ymrwymo i godi ymwybyddiaeth a choffâu'r Holodomor, i gofio'r dioddefwyr ac i sefyll yn gadarn gyda phobl Wcráin, sydd erbyn hyn yn cael lloches yng Nghymru. Fis Tachwedd diwethaf, fe wnaethon ni nodi 90 mlynedd ers y Holodomor yn Wcráin gyda digwyddiad yng Ngerddi Alexandra yng Nghaerdydd, dan arweiniad y Parchedig Ganon Stewart Lisk. Fe wnaethom ni gofio'r rhai a oedd wedi dioddef oherwydd gweithredoedd blaenorol gan lywodraeth ym Moskva. 

Thank you to Alun Davies, Darren Millar and Heledd Fychan for tabling this important debate on behalf of all of the main political parties represented at the Senedd. I believe that the cross-party nature of this debate demonstrates our unanimous support for the people of Ukraine, and their resilience in the face of Russia’s invasion.

On the fourth Saturday of every November, the Holodomor is remembered internationally, and the Welsh Government has committed to raising awareness of the Holodomor, to remember the victims and to stand shoulder to shoulder with the people of Ukraine, who have now sought sanctuary in Wales. Last November, we marked 90 years since the Holodomor unfolded in Ukraine with an event in Alexandra Gardens in Cardiff, led by the Reverend Canon Stewart Lisk. We remembered those who had suffered as a result of the previous actions of a government in Moskva.

This year we have organised an event here at the Senedd on 25 November, kindly sponsored by my fellow Member Alun Davies. The event will include participation from the First Minister, Welsh Government Ministers, local government, Ukrainian and Welsh religious leaders, the Association of Ukrainians in Great Britain, and a representative of the embassy of Ukraine. The event will be attended by many of our Ukrainian guests, who have taken sanctuary in Wales because of the war. We will listen to the hauntingly beautiful sounds of bandura players, Ukraine's national instrument. We will lay wreaths and sheaves of wheat to remind us of the wheat stolen then by Stalin's cadres and today stolen by Putin's invaders. We will then stand in silence for a period of reflection to remember the millions of victims of Stalin's artificial famine.

Eleni rydym wedi trefnu digwyddiad yma yn y Senedd ar 25 Tachwedd a noddir yn garedig gan fy nghyd-Aelod Alun Davies. Bydd y digwyddiad yn cynnwys cyfraniad gan y Prif Weinidog, Gweinidogion Llywodraeth Cymru, llywodraeth leol, arweinwyr crefyddol Wcreinaidd a Chymreig, Cymdeithas Wcreiniaid Prydain, a chynrychiolydd o llysgenhadaeth Wcráin. Bydd llawer o'n gwesteion Wcreinaidd yn y digwyddiad wedi cael noddfa yng Nghymru oherwydd y rhyfel. Byddwn yn gwrando ar seiniau hyfryd chwaraewyr bandura, offeryn cenedlaethol Wcráin. Byddwn yn gosod torchau ac ysgubau o wenith i'n hatgoffa o'r gwenith y gwnaeth cadfridogion Stalin ei ddwyn ac sy'n cael ei ddwyn heddiw gan oresgynwyr Putin. Wedyn, cawn ysbaid o dawelwch i fyfyrio a chofio am y miliynau a ddioddefodd newyn artiffisial Stalin.

Putin's current atrocities in Ukraine are part of a long-term pattern of Russian oppression of Ukraine, stretching back many decades and, indeed, centuries. Marking Holodomor in this way shines a light on this. The event will provide opportunity to reaffirm our solidarity with Ukraine and to pay tribute to the bravery of the Ukrainian people. We will also be highlighting Holodomor remembrance through our social media channels and in our regular communications with guests and hosts across Wales to raise awareness.

The Holodomor—a man-made famine that caused millions to die—was bravely exposed to the world, in part, by Welsh journalist Gareth Jones. It was an act of genocide, which the motion recognises.

The Holodomor was an act of genocide. Голодомор був актом геноциду.

This motion, unequivocally on behalf of the people of Wales, through this Parliament, declares Holodomor an act of genocide. Ця ініціатива однозначно від імені народу Уельсу через цей парламент проголошує Голодомор актом геноциду.

The term 'genocide' was created by Jewish lawyer Raphael Lemkin, who survived the Holocaust, and he was responsible for the introduction and eventual adoption by the United Nations of the Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide—an international treaty that criminalises genocide and obligates state parties to pursue the enforcement of its prohibition. It was the first legal instrument to codify genocide as a crime, and the first human rights treaty unanimously adopted by the United Nations General Assembly on 9 December 1948, during the third session of the United Nations General Assembly. The convention entered into force on 12 January 1951, and it has 152 state parties as of 2022.

Lemkin was clear that what we now describe as the Holodomor was an intentional programme of starvation—the third prong of Soviet Russification of Ukraine. In 1953, in a speech given in New York City, Lemkin described the Holodomor as one part of perhaps the

'classic example of Soviet genocide, the longest and most extensive experiment in Russification, namely the extermination of the Ukrainian nation'.

Going on to point out that the Ukrainian is not and has never been a Russian.

Welsh journalist Gareth Jones saw the suffering in Ukraine and told the truth about the horror he found. He was one of the few western journalists who reported on the famine in Ukraine and its causes, and is still considered a hero in Ukraine. I was pleased to see Gareth being remembered and honoured in his home town of Barry with the unveiling of a memorial plaque in his honour. This is one of four plaques that have been unveiled in his honour, with others in Aberystwyth, Milan and only several weeks ago, at a ceremony in the national library in Kyiv. We will be commemorating Gareth Jones and the importance of his work at the event at the Senedd next month. And whilst we honour the resilience and courage of the Ukrainian people in the face of Putin's aggression, we also affirm our commitment to help Ukrainians here in Wales to record their knowledge of war crimes committed in more recent times.

Each of us has been shocked by the brutality of what we have seen and heard from Ukraine since the large-scale invasion began. Since February last year, thousands have been killed and millions more forced to seek refuge. Welsh Government condemns this war, and we, as a nation, will continue to stand against brutality and in solidarity with those who need us.

Before this conflict, Wales was home to around 500 Ukrainians. We have now welcomed more than 7,000 people fleeing Ukraine. We know those who arrive here in Wales seeking a safe place to stay need support. Many have settled into our Welsh communities and become our friends, our colleagues, our schoolmates, and in some cases, more like our family. We have welcomed them and learned from their experience to strengthen our communities. This response has again shown the compassion across Wales. The people of Wales have demonstrated that they will step up and answer the call to participate in the nation of sanctuary. And again, I say 'thank you' to the people of Wales for their generosity.

We are all aware of the longstanding connection between Ukraine and Wales, and I am extremely proud of how we continue to stand against these barbaric acts and show unwavering generosity. So, I know that all Members will join me in expressing Welsh solidarity with all Ukrainians on the anniversary of Holodomor. Wales is a nation of sanctuary, a nation of peace. Слава Україні! Героям слава! Перемога!

Mae erchyllterau cyfredol Putin yn Wcráin yn rhan o batrwm hirdymor o ormes Rwsia ar Wcráin, sy'n ymestyn yn ôl ddegawdau lawer, a chanrifoedd yn wir. Mae nodi Holodomor yn y ffordd hon yn taflu goleuni ar hyn. Bydd y digwyddiad yn rhoi cyfle i ailddatgan ein cefnogaeth i Wcráin ac i dalu teyrnged i ddewrder pobl Wcráin. Byddwn hefyd yn cofio Holodomor drwy ein sianeli cyfryngau cymdeithasol ac yn ein cyfathrebiadau rheolaidd â gwesteion a lletywyr ledled Cymru i godi ymwybyddiaeth.

Cafodd yr Holodomor—newyn o waith dyn a achosodd i filiynau farw—ei ddatgelu'n ddewr i'r byd, yn rhannol gan y newyddiadurwr Cymreig Gareth Jones. Roedd yn weithred o hil-laddiad, a dyna mae'r cynnig yn ei gydnabod.

Roedd yr Holodomor yn weithred o hil-laddiad. Голодомор був актом геноциду.

Mae'r cynnig hwn, yn ddiamwys ar ran pobl Cymru drwy'r Senedd hon, yn datgan bod Holodomor yn weithred o hil-laddiad. Ця ініціатива однозначно від імені народу Уельсу через цей парламент проголошує Голодомор актом геноциду.

Crëwyd y term 'hil-laddiad' gan y cyfreithiwr Iddewig Raphael Lemkin, a oroesodd yr Holocost, ac ef oedd yn gyfrifol am gyflwyno a mabwysiadu y Confensiwn ar Atal a Chosbi Trosedd Hil-laddiad gan y Cenhedloedd Unedig—cytundeb rhyngwladol sy'n troseddoli hil-laddiad ac yn ei gwneud yn ddyletswydd i wladwriaethau fynd ar drywydd gorfodaeth i'w wahardd. Hwn oedd yr offeryn cyfreithiol cyntaf i godio hil-laddiad fel trosedd, a'r cytundeb hawliau dynol cyntaf a fabwysiadwyd yn unfrydol gan Gynulliad Cyffredinol y Cenhedloedd Unedig ar 9 Rhagfyr 1948, yn ystod trydydd sesiwn Cynulliad Cyffredinol y Cenhedloedd Unedig. Daeth y confensiwn i rym ar 12 Ionawr 1951, ac roedd ganddo 152 o bartïon gwladwriaethol erbyn 2022.

Roedd Lemkin yn glir fod yr hyn a ddisgrifir gennym bellach fel yr Holodomor yn rhaglen fwriadol o newyn—trydedd elfen Rwsianeiddio Sofietaidd Wcráin. Ym 1953, mewn araith a roddodd yn Efrog Newydd, disgrifiodd Lemkin yr Holodomor fel un rhan efallai o'r

'enghraifft glasurol o hil-laddiad Sofietaidd, yr arbrawf hwyaf a mwyaf helaeth mewn Rwsianeiddio, sef difodi cenedl Wcráin'.

Aeth rhagddo i nodi nad Rwsiad yw'r Wcreiniad ac na fu erioed yn Rwsiad.

Gwelodd y newyddiadurwr o Gymro, Gareth Jones, y dioddefaint yn Wcráin a datgelodd y gwir am yr erchylltra y daeth ar ei draws. Roedd yn un o'r ychydig newyddiadurwyr gorllewinol a adroddodd ar y newyn yn Wcráin a'i achosion, ac mae'n dal i gael ei ystyried yn arwr yn Wcráin. Roeddwn yn falch o weld Gareth yn cael ei gofio a'i anrhydeddu yn ei dref enedigol, y Barri, gyda dadorchuddio plac coffa er anrhydedd iddo. Dyma un o bedwar plac a ddadorchuddiwyd er anrhydedd iddo, gydag eraill yn Aberystwyth, Milan ac ychydig wythnosau'n ôl yn unig, mewn seremoni yn y llyfrgell genedlaethol yn Kyiv. Byddwn yn coffáu Gareth Jones a phwysigrwydd ei waith yn y digwyddiad yn y Senedd fis nesaf. Ac wrth inni anrhydeddu cadernid a dewrder pobl Wcráin yn wyneb ymosodiadau Putin, rydym hefyd yn cadarnhau ein hymrwymiad i helpu Wcreiniaid yma yng Nghymru i gofnodi eu gwybodaeth am droseddau rhyfel a gyflawnwyd yn fwy diweddar.

Cafodd pawb ohonom ein syfrdanu gan greulondeb yr hyn a welsom ac a glywsom o Wcráin ers i'r goresgyniad mawr ddechrau. Ers mis Chwefror y llynedd, mae miloedd wedi cael eu lladd a miliynau'n rhagor wedi gorfod ceisio lloches. Mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn condemnio'r rhyfel hwn, ac fel cenedl, byddwn yn parhau i sefyll yn erbyn creulondeb ac mewn undod â'r rhai sydd ein hangen.

Cyn y gwrthdaro hwn, roedd Cymru'n gartref i tua 500 o Wcreiniaid. Rydym bellach wedi croesawu mwy na 7,000 o bobl sy'n ffoi o Wcráin. Rydym yn gwybod bod angen cymorth ar y rhai sy'n cyrraedd yma yng Nghymru yn chwilio am le diogel i aros. Mae nifer wedi ymgartrefu yn ein cymunedau yng Nghymru ac yn dod yn ffrindiau i ni, yn gydweithwyr, yn gyd-ddisgyblion, ac mewn rhai achosion, yn fwy tebyg i deulu. Rydym wedi eu croesawu ac wedi dysgu o'u profiad i gryfhau ein cymunedau. Mae'r ymateb hwn unwaith eto wedi dangos y tosturi ledled Cymru. Mae pobl Cymru wedi dangos y byddant yn camu i'r adwy ac yn ateb yr alwad i gyfranogi yn y genedl noddfa. Ac unwaith eto, rwy'n diolch i bobl Cymru am eu haelioni.

Rydym i gyd yn ymwybodol o'r cysylltiad hirsefydlog rhwng Wcráin a Chymru, ac rwy'n hynod falch o'r modd y parhawn i sefyll yn erbyn y gweithredoedd barbaraidd hyn a dangos haelioni diwyro. Felly, gwn y bydd yr holl Aelodau yn ymuno â mi i fynegi undod Cymreig â'r holl Wcreiniaid i nodi Holodomor. Mae Cymru yn genedl noddfa, yn genedl o heddwch. Слава Україні! Героям слава! Перемога!

16:15

Galwaf ar Darren Millar i ymateb i'r ddadl.

I call on Darren Millar to reply to the debate.

Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer, and can I also start by paying tribute to the work of Mick Antoniw—not only for his role here in the Welsh Government and the Welsh Parliament, but for the leading role that he is playing in ensuring that the voice of the people of Ukraine is heard across this nation? Can I also thank as well my colleagues Heledd Fychan and Alun Davies for the ability to co-table this important motion today?

I know that Alun has visited Ukraine on a number of occasions. I've visited it once since the start of the Russian invasion, and I know how much those visits are appreciated by the people of Ukraine. Of course, the establishment of the new cross-party group for friends of Ukraine, I think, will help once again to show the solidarity that there is in this Chamber with those people, who are in the midst of a crisis. We need to support them as much as we can.

So, look, this is a very important debate. For too long, the Holodomor has been overlooked. It has been overlooked in the annals of human suffering and injustice. Therefore, I stand shoulder to shoulder with everybody in this Chamber and with the people of Ukraine in calling for the formal recognition by this Welsh Parliament of the Holodomor as a genocide.

We've heard already that these are events that took place 90 years ago, the scale of which it is impossible to fathom. But to think that up to two or even three times the population of Wales died as a result of a man-made famine, which was an intentional policy of the then Soviet Government, under Stalin, is absolutely awful.

We know that Holodomor does mean 'death by hunger' in Ukrainian, and it was good to hear the Ukrainian tongue used in the Chamber today. But that forced starvation of millions of people cannot go ignored any longer. We know that grain and food were seized from Ukrainian households, leaving them with absolutely nothing to eat. There was forced migration that took place as well. Millions of men, women and children perishing from starvation, and some resorting to the horror of cannibalising their own family members in their desperation to survive.

So, the intention of those policies under Stalin was clear: it was to break the spirit of the people of Ukraine and to suppress any form of resistance, as well as undermining their national identity. It was a systemic and calculated effort to eliminate a huge portion of the Ukrainian population. And that, my dear friends, is genocide—plain and simple, it is genocide.

And the evidence supporting the recognition of the Holodomor as a genocide is overwhelming. Not only do we have Gareth Jones’s account of what was going on—and it’s wonderful that we're paying tribute to him in the Chamber today, and that his legacy in exposing the horror of the Holodomor to the world is not going to be forgotten—but we know from accounts of survivors, international observers, historical records; they all mount up to a chilling picture of the suffering that was being endured by Ukrainians during this period. There are photographs, there are letters, there are official documents, all pointing to the deliberate nature of these atrocities. 

And that's why I think it is absolutely essential that we stand together this afternoon in order to make this formal declaration in the Welsh Parliament that the Holodomor was, indeed, a genocide. In doing so, it will serve as a powerful reminder, not only of the human capacity for cruelty and the importance of acknowledging past wrongs, but it will honour the memory of those millions of men, women and children who perished during this very dark chapter of Ukrainian history, giving them the recognition that they deserve. 

We know also, of course, that a number of nations and Parliaments have already recognised the Holodomor as a genocide, including the United States, Canada, Australia and many eastern European nations, and, I was pleased to note, earlier this year, even the House of Commons, in spite of the UK Government's position on the matter previously, also declared the Holodomor to be a genocide. And this is why it's very important for us to do the same, because we see Ukraine, at the moment, struggling—struggling to survive against an illegal invasion by Vladimir Putin and Russia, repeating this cycle of oppression of its smaller neighbour, Ukraine. And so I'm proud to stand in this Senedd today encouraging all of you to stand by the statement in this motion, no matter what your political flavour is, no matter whether you're in Government or not in Government, so that we declare this to be what it is—a genocide—and we pay tribute to Gareth Jones and his legacy. Diolch.

Diolch, Ddirprwy Lywydd, ac a gaf fi hefyd ddechrau drwy dalu teyrnged i waith Mick Antoniw—nid yn unig am ei rôl yma yn Llywodraeth Cymru a Senedd Cymru, ond am y rôl arweiniol y mae'n ei chwarae yn sicrhau bod llais pobl Wcráin yn cael ei glywed ar draws y genedl hon? A gaf fi ddiolch hefyd i fy nghyd-Aelodau Heledd Fychan ac Alun Davies am allu cyd-gyflwyno'r cynnig pwysig hwn heddiw?

Gwn fod Alun wedi ymweld ag Wcráin sawl gwaith. Ymwelais â'r wlad un waith ers dechrau goresgyniad Rwsia, ac rwy'n gwybod faint mae pobl Wcráin yn gwerthfawrogi'r ymweliadau hynny. Wrth gwrs, rwy'n credu y bydd sefydlu'r grŵp trawsbleidiol newydd ar gyfer cyfeillion Wcráin yn helpu unwaith eto i ddangos cefnogaeth y Siambr i'r bobl hynny, sydd yng nghanol argyfwng. Mae angen inni eu cefnogi cymaint ag y gallwn.

Felly, edrychwch, mae hon yn ddadl bwysig iawn. Am amser rhy hir, mae'r Holodomor wedi cael ei anwybyddu. Mae wedi cael ei anwybyddu yn y cofnod o ddioddefaint ac anghyfiawnder dynol. Felly, rwy'n sefyll ysgwydd wrth ysgwydd â phawb yn y Siambr hon a chyda phobl Wcráin wrth alw am gydnabyddiaeth ffurfiol gan y Senedd Gymreig hon i'r Holodomor fel hil-laddiad.

Rydym eisoes wedi clywed bod y rhain yn bethau a ddigwyddodd 90 mlynedd yn ôl, ac mae'n amhosibl dirnad eu maint. Ond mae meddwl bod hyd at ddwy neu hyd yn oed dair gwaith poblogaeth Cymru wedi marw o ganlyniad i newyn a grëwyd gan ddyn, a oedd yn bolisi bwriadol y Llywodraeth Sofietaidd ar y pryd, dan Stalin, yn gwbl erchyll.

Fe wyddom fod Holodomor yn golygu 'marwolaeth trwy newyn' yn yr Wcreineg, a da oedd clywed yr iaith Wcreineg yn cael ei defnyddio yn y Siambr heddiw. Ond ni ellir anwybyddu'r newyn a orfodwyd ar filiynau o bobl mwyach. Fe wyddom fod grawn a bwyd wedi cael eu cymryd oddi ar aelwydydd Wcráin gan eu gadael heb ddim byd o gwbl i'w fwyta. Cafodd pobl eu gorfodi i fudo hefyd. Bu farw miliynau o ddynion, menywod a phlant o newyn, gyda rhai'n ildio i'r arswyd o ganibaleiddio aelodau o'u teuluoedd eu hunain yn eu hysfa enbyd i oroesi.

Felly, roedd bwriad y polisïau hynny o dan Stalin yn glir: torri ysbryd pobl Wcráin ac atal unrhyw fath o wrthwynebiad, yn ogystal â thanseilio eu hunaniaeth genedlaethol. Roedd yn ymdrech systematig a bwriadol i ddileu cyfran enfawr o boblogaeth Wcráin. Ac mae hynny, gyfeillion annwyl, yn hil-laddiad—yn syml iawn, hil-laddiad yw hynny.

Ac mae'r dystiolaeth sy'n cefnogi cydnabyddiaeth o'r Holodomor fel hil-laddiad yn llethol. Nid yn unig y mae gennym gyfrif Gareth Jones o'r hyn oedd yn digwydd—ac mae'n wych ein bod yn talu teyrnged iddo ef yn y Siambr heddiw, ac nad anghofir ei waith yn datgelu arswyd yr Holodomor i'r byd—ond fe wyddom o gofnodion goroeswyr, sylwedyddion rhyngwladol, cofnodion hanesyddol; maent i gyd yn llunio darlun iasol o'r dioddefaint a ddioddefodd Wcreiniaid yn ystod y cyfnod hwn. Mae yna ffotograffau, mae yna lythyrau, mae yna ddogfennau swyddogol, pob un yn dangos natur fwriadol yr erchyllterau hyn. 

A dyna pam y credaf ei bod yn gwbl hanfodol ein bod yn sefyll gyda'n gilydd y prynhawn yma er mwyn gwneud y datganiad ffurfiol hwn yn Senedd Cymru fod yr Holodomor, yn wir, yn hil-laddiad. Wrth wneud hynny, bydd yn ein hatgoffa'n bwerus, nid yn unig o allu pobl i fod yn greulon a phwysigrwydd cydnabod camweddau'r gorffennol, ond bydd yn anrhydeddu'r cof am y miliynau o ddynion, menywod a phlant a fu farw yn ystod y bennod dywyll hon yn hanes Wcráin, gan roi'r gydnabyddiaeth y maent yn ei haeddu iddynt. 

Gwyddom hefyd, wrth gwrs, fod nifer o wledydd a Seneddau eisoes wedi cydnabod yr Holodomor fel hil-laddiad, gan gynnwys yr Unol Daleithiau, Canada, Awstralia a llawer o wledydd dwyrain Ewrop, ac roeddwn yn falch o nodi, yn gynharach eleni, fod Tŷ'r Cyffredin hefyd hyd yn oed, er gwaethaf safbwynt Llywodraeth y DU ar y mater yn flaenorol, wedi datgan bod yr Holodomor yn hil-laddiad. A dyma pam ei bod hi'n bwysig iawn i ni wneud yr un peth, oherwydd fe welwn pa mor anodd yw hi ar Wcráin ar hyn o bryd—yn ymdrechu i oroesi yn erbyn ymosodiad anghyfreithlon gan Vladimir Putin a Rwsia, gan ailadrodd y cylch o ormes ar ei chymydog llai, Wcráin. Ac felly rwy'n falch o sefyll yn y Senedd hon heddiw i annog pob un ohonoch chi i sefyll wrth y datganiad yn y cynnig hwn, ni waeth beth yw eich lliw gwleidyddol, ni waeth a ydych chi'n aelod o'r Llywodraeth ai peidio, fel ein bod yn datgan mai dyma beth ydyw—hil-laddiad—ac rydym yn talu teyrnged i Gareth Jones a'i waith. Diolch.

16:20

Y cwestiwn yw: a ddylid derbyn y cynnig? A oes unrhyw Aelod yn gwrthwynebu? Nac oes. Felly, derbynnir y cynnig yn unol â Rheol Sefydlog 12.36.

The proposal is to agree the motion. Does any Member object? There is no objection. Therefore, the motion is agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.

Derbyniwyd y cynnig yn unol â Rheol Sefydlog 12.36.

Motion agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.

6. Dadl y Ceidwadwyr Cymreig: Data perfformiad adrannau Damweiniau ac Achosion Brys
6. Welsh Conservatives Debate: A&E department performance data

Detholwyd y gwelliannau canlynol: gwelliant 1 yn enw Lesley Griffiths, a gwelliannau 2 a 3 yn enw Heledd Fychan. Os derbynnir gwelliant 1, caiff gwelliannau 2 a 3 eu dad-ddethol.

The following amendments have been selected: amendment 1 in the name of Lesley Griffiths, and amendments 2 and 3 in the name of Heledd Fychan. If amendment 1 is agreed, amendments 2 and 3 will be deselected.

Eitem 6 heddiw yw dadl y Ceidwadwyr Cymreig, data perfformiad adrannau damweiniau ac achosion brys. Galwaf ar Russell George i wneud y cynnig.

Item 6 today is the Welsh Conservatives' debate, A&E department performance data. I call on Russell George to move the motion.

Cynnig NDM8390 Darren Millar

Cynnig bod y Senedd:

1. Yn nodi pwysigrwydd data ystyrlon a thryloyw wrth wella gofal a diogelwch cleifion.

2. Yn gresynu at ganfyddiadau'r Coleg Brenhinol Meddygaeth Frys nad yw prif ddata perfformiad adrannau brys wedi'u hadrodd yn gywir ers dros ddegawd.

3. Yn galw ar Lywodraeth Cymru i:

a) cyhoeddi ffigurau cyn-rhyddhau fel mater o drefn ar gyfer adrannau brys Cymru er mwyn deall perfformiad yn well a llywio'r broses o wneud penderfyniadau;

b) esbonio pam mae'n ymddangos bod y data perfformiad mewn ymatebion a ddarparwyd gan fyrddau iechyd lleol Cymru i'r Coleg Brenhinol Meddygaeth Frys o dan y Ddeddf Rhyddid Gwybodaeth a data perfformiad yr adran achosion brys a gyhoeddwyd gan Lywodraeth Cymru yn wahanol; ac

c) comisiynu adolygiad annibynnol o ddata cyhoeddedig i sicrhau eu bod yn debyg rhwng gwledydd y DU.

Motion NDM8390 Darren Millar

To propose that the Senedd:

1. Notes the importance of meaningful and transparent data in improving care and patient safety.

2. Regrets the findings by the Royal College of Emergency Medicine that headline emergency department performance data have not been accurately reported for more than a decade.

3. Calls on the Welsh Government to:

a) routinely publish pre-exemption figures for Welsh emergency departments to better understand performance and to inform decision making;

b) explain why the performance data in responses provided by Welsh local health boards to the Royal College of Emergency Medicine under the Freedom of Information Act and emergency department performance data published by the Welsh Government appear to be different; and

c) commission an independent review of published data to ensure that they are comparable between the UK nations.

Cynigiwyd y cynnig.

Motion moved.

Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer. I move the motion in the name of my colleague, Darren Millar. This is a very important debate today, because our accident and emergency departments are the front line, the first point of contact, for many individuals facing emergencies, injuries and life-threatening conditions. Therefore, the accuracy and reliability of the data collected and reported on the length of time that people are waiting in our A&E departments is crucial, not only for the individual patient, because we know that waiting longer times in emergency departments is directly related to worse patient outcomes, but also for the entire healthcare system. Having accurate A&E data is vitally important, because it allows managers and health professionals to plan for periods of winter pressures.

Now, I would have thought that what I've said is fairly obvious, and I would have thought that we could all agree on that. But that doesn't seem to be the case, because the findings of the Royal College of Emergency Medicine demonstrate and tell us that the data published is misleading, as published data is not reflective of the scale of long waits taking place in our A&E departments. So, our motion today points out the failings to capture data in a way that allows healthcare professionals to properly predict pressures.

We won't be supporting the Government's amendment today. The Government's amendment more or less deletes our entire motion. The Government amendment:

'Notes the assurance from health boards that emergency department data have been reported in line with Welsh Government guidance'.

The Minister is nodding. I agree. But the Government is missing the point. The fact is that published emergency department performance data does not reflect the length of time that people are waiting in A&E departments, and that recording patients' data where a breach exemption has been applied in the wait-for-fewer-than-four-hours category misrepresents the true picture when it comes to A&E performance and waiting time. Now, the Welsh Government are also completely missing the point of the royal college's concerns and recommendations, or perhaps they're deliberately doing so. Rather than listening to the points being made—and I would have thought that this would be the right response for the Government, to listen to the concerns and address them—the Government seem to have dug their heels in and claimed that everyone has got this wrong. The royal colleges have got this wrong, the Welsh Conservatives have got this wrong, Plaid Cymru have got this wrong, the BBC, who have independently verified this position, have got it—we're all wrong and we should stop debating and asking questions on this topic.

Point 3 of our motion today is calling for the Welsh Government to

'explain why the performance data in responses provided by Welsh local health boards to the Royal College...and emergency department performance data published by the Welsh Government appears to be different'.

The question has not been addressed by the Government despite me asking the Minister on a number of occasions.

So, what did the FOI requests tell us? They told us that in the first six months of 2023 there were 45,757 patients who were classified as breach exemptions, and, therefore, their true length of stay in A&E departments had not been recorded, included or reflected in the official performance data. Their attendance and waits are recorded in—. So, this is important: their attendance and waits are recorded in the data, but in the fewer than four hours category, when, in reality, they would have been there much longer. Since January 2012, the number of people who have been misrepresented in this way, according to the royal college analysis, which I would agree with, is 673,000 patients.

Now, in order to see the full picture of what we are facing across Wales, the royal college has had to submit FOIs. This is staggering. Doctors submitting FOIs to find out the true position of the position of A&E departments and how long people are waiting, and then doing so in order to plan themselves. So, I hope the Minister will respond in this debate today and explain the performance data in her response provided by Welsh local health boards to the royal college under the FOI and the emergency performance data published by the Welsh Government—explain why these figures are so different.

I want to address Plaid Cymru's amendments today, which I believe add to our motion, and it is correct that four fifths of clinical leads and consultants surveyed by the royal college have a negative view of the breach exemptions policy, and the Welsh Government should, of course, listen to the health professionals. So, Welsh Conservatives will be supporting Plaid's amendment 3 as well. I think that amendment is the amendment that deletes part of our motion; I would have preferred it had you added to our motion, but the points that you make are points that I would agree with, so we'll be supporting those today as well. The Welsh Government should rescind the breach exemptions policy in line with the wishes of the royal college, or at least publish the two figures so we can see the true position.

The Minister has stated that health boards are compliant with the guidance issued in 2011, and this was never in contention, and this is beside the point. The royal college has stated explicitly that the policy is indeed being followed correctly. I agree the policy is being followed correctly—[Interruption.] The problem is, Minister, that the policy itself, of course, is wrong. 

Diolch yn fawr, Ddirprwy Lywydd. Rwy'n cyflwyno'r cynnig yn enw fy nghyd-Aelod, Darren Millar. Mae hon yn ddadl bwysig iawn heddiw, oherwydd ein hadrannau damweiniau ac achosion brys yw'r rheng flaen, y pwynt cyswllt cyntaf, i lawer o unigolion sy'n wynebu argyfyngau, anafiadau a chyflyrau sy'n peryglu bywyd. Felly, mae cywirdeb a dibynadwyedd y data a gesglir ac a adroddir ar faint o amser y mae pobl yn ei dreulio'n aros yn ein hadrannau damweiniau ac achosion brys yn allweddol, nid yn unig i'r claf unigol, oherwydd gwyddom fod amseroedd aros hwy mewn adrannau brys yn uniongyrchol gysylltiedig â chanlyniadau gwaeth i gleifion, ond hefyd i'r system gofal iechyd yn ei chyfanrwydd. Mae cael data damweiniau ac achosion brys cywir yn hanfodol bwysig, oherwydd mae'n caniatáu i reolwyr a gweithwyr iechyd proffesiynol gynllunio ar gyfer cyfnodau o bwysau'r gaeaf.

Nawr, buaswn wedi meddwl bod yr hyn a ddywedais yn weddol amlwg, a buaswn wedi meddwl y gallem i gyd gytuno ar hynny. Ond nid yw'n ymddangos bod hynny'n wir, oherwydd mae canfyddiadau'r Coleg Brenhinol Meddygaeth Frys yn dangos ac yn dweud wrthym fod y data a gyhoeddir yn gamarweiniol, gan nad yw data cyhoeddedig yn adlewyrchu graddau amseroedd aros hir sy'n digwydd yn ein hadrannau damweiniau ac achosion brys. Felly, mae ein cynnig heddiw yn tynnu sylw at y methiannau i gasglu data mewn ffordd sy'n caniatáu i weithwyr gofal iechyd proffesiynol ragweld y pwysau'n iawn.

Ni fyddwn yn cefnogi gwelliant y Llywodraeth heddiw. Mae gwelliant y Llywodraeth fwy neu lai'n dileu ein cynnig ni yn ei gyfanrwydd. Mae gwelliant y Llywodraeth:

'Yn nodi'r sicrwydd gan y byrddau iechyd bod data adrannau achosion brys wedi'u hadrodd yn unol â chanllawiau Llywodraeth Cymru'.

Mae'r Gweinidog yn nodio. Rwy'n cytuno. Ond mae'r Llywodraeth yn methu'r pwynt. Y ffaith amdani yw nad yw data perfformiad cyhoeddedig adrannau argyfwng yn adlewyrchu hyd yr amser y mae pobl yn aros mewn adrannau damweiniau ac achosion brys, a bod cofnodi data cleifion lle cymhwyswyd eithriad rhag torri targedau yn y categori aros am lai na phedair awr yn camliwio'r gwir ddarlun o berfformiad ac amseroedd aros. Nawr, mae Llywodraeth Cymru hefyd yn methu'r pwynt o ran pryderon ac argymhellion y coleg brenhinol, neu efallai eu bod yn gwneud hynny'n fwriadol. Yn hytrach na gwrando ar y pwyntiau sy'n cael eu gwneud—a buaswn wedi meddwl mai dyna'r ymateb cywir i'r Llywodraeth, gwrando ar y pryderon a mynd i'r afael â nhw—mae'n ymddangos bod y Llywodraeth wedi ystyfnigo a honni bod pawb wedi cael hyn yn anghywir. Mae'r colegau brenhinol wedi'i gael yn anghywir, mae'r Ceidwadwyr Cymreig wedi'i gael yn anghywir, mae Plaid Cymru wedi'i gael yn anghywir, mae'r BBC, sydd wedi archwilio'r sefyllfa'n annibynnol, wedi'i gael—rydym i gyd yn anghywir a dylem roi'r gorau i drafod a gofyn cwestiynau am y mater.

Mae pwynt 3 o'n cynnig heddiw yn galw ar Lywodraeth Cymru i

'esbonio pam mae'n ymddangos bod y data perfformiad mewn ymatebion a ddarparwyd gan fyrddau iechyd lleol Cymru i'r Coleg Brenhinol...a data perfformiad yr adran achosion brys a gyhoeddwyd gan Lywodraeth Cymru yn wahanol'.

Nid yw'r Llywodraeth wedi ateb y cwestiwn er imi ofyn i'r Gweinidog sawl gwaith.

Felly, beth oedd y ceisiadau rhyddid gwybodaeth yn ei ddweud wrthym? Roeddent yn dweud bod 45,757 o gleifion yn ystod chwe mis cyntaf 2023 wedi'u categoreiddio fel eithriadau, ac felly, nid oedd gwir hyd eu hamser aros mewn adrannau damweiniau ac achosion brys wedi'i gofnodi, ei gynnwys na'i adlewyrchu yn y data perfformiad swyddogol. Mae eu presenoldeb a'u hamseroedd aros yn cael eu cofnodi yn—. Felly, mae hyn yn bwysig: cofnodir eu presenoldeb a'u hamser aros yn y data, ond yn y categori llai na phedair awr, pan fyddent wedi bod yno ers llawer mwy o amser mewn gwirionedd. Ers mis Ionawr 2012, nifer y bobl sydd wedi cael eu camddarlunio yn y modd hwn yn ôl dadansoddiad y coleg brenhinol, y buaswn yn cytuno ag ef, yw 673,000 o gleifion.

Nawr, er mwyn gweld y darlun llawn o'r hyn a wynebwn ledled Cymru, bu'n rhaid i'r coleg brenhinol gyflwyno ceisiadau rhyddid gwybodaeth. Mae hyn yn syfrdanol. Meddygon yn cyflwyno ceisiadau rhyddid gwybodaeth i ddarganfod gwir sefyllfa adrannau damweiniau ac achosion brys a pha mor hir y mae pobl yn aros, ac yna'n gwneud hynny er mwyn gallu cynllunio eu hunain. Felly, rwy'n gobeithio y bydd y Gweinidog yn ymateb yn y ddadl hon heddiw ac yn esbonio'r data perfformiad yn ei hymateb a ddarparwyd gan fyrddau iechyd lleol Cymru i'r coleg brenhinol o dan y Ddeddf Rhyddid Gwybodaeth a'r data perfformiad adrannau argyfwng a gyhoeddwyd gan Lywodraeth Cymru—ac egluro pam mae'r ffigurau hyn mor wahanol.

Rwyf am roi sylw i welliannau Plaid Cymru heddiw, ac rwy'n credu eu bod yn ychwanegu at ein cynnig, ac mae'n gywir fod gan bedair rhan o bump o arweinwyr clinigol a meddygon ymgynghorol a arolygwyd gan y coleg brenhinol farn negyddol am y polisi eithriadau, a dylai Llywodraeth Cymru wrando ar y gweithwyr iechyd proffesiynol wrth gwrs. Felly, bydd y Ceidwadwyr Cymreig yn cefnogi gwelliant 3 Plaid Cymru hefyd. Rwy'n credu mai dyna'r gwelliant sy'n dileu rhan o'n cynnig; buaswn wedi hoffi pe baech chi wedi ychwanegu at ein cynnig ni, ond mae'r pwyntiau a wnewch yn bwyntiau y buaswn yn cytuno â nhw, felly byddwn yn cefnogi'r rheini heddiw hefyd. Dylai Llywodraeth Cymru ddad-wneud y polisi eithriadau yn unol â dymuniadau'r coleg brenhinol, neu o leiaf gyhoeddi'r ddau ffigur fel y gallwn weld y sefyllfa go iawn.

Mae'r Gweinidog wedi dweud bod y byrddau iechyd yn cydymffurfio â'r canllawiau a gyhoeddwyd yn 2011, ac nid oedd hyn erioed yn destun cynnen, ac mae'n amherthnasol. Mae'r coleg brenhinol wedi datgan yn glir fod y polisi'n cael ei ddilyn yn gywir. Rwy'n cytuno bod y polisi'n cael ei ddilyn yn gywir—[Torri ar draws.] Wrth gwrs, y broblem, Weinidog, yw bod y polisi ei hun yn anghywir. 

16:25

'Why?' I hear from another position. 'Why is the policy wrong?' I hear. It was a slight intervention, I think, Presiding Officer, but 'why?' It's wrong because of this: the position has changed. The policy's remained there for 10 years, but the position, Jenny, is very different to the position 10 years ago. Our A&E departments are now at an emergency position. They're in crisis, and this is not the position that was there 10 years ago.

The policy is being applied very differently between health boards. This is the other issue. So, there is human discretion being used. In order to get a true position of how long people are waiting in health boards, it's very difficult to know between hospital and hospital and health board and health board. Also, Jenny, it’s taking up a huge amount of admin time every week when clinical staff or admin staff have to go through and effectively remove the amount of time people are waiting in A&E in order to have those statistics, that data published; time that I think could be better spent. I suppose the big question is: who would not want to have the accurate position of how long people are waiting in A&E? This isn’t good for patients, it’s not what clinicians want, so the only people I would suggest who may not want to have the true position of A&E waiting times if they are poorer is indeed the Government.

So, this is something that has not just come about now; this hasn’t just come back to light in the last week or so; this is something that the royal college have been raising with the Minister in meetings and correspondence for some time, and the Government has failed to adequately address the situation over a period of time. So, sadly, we need to get to a position where current and accurate information is being provided in terms of what is happening in our A&E departments.

'Pam?' Rwy'n clywed o rywle arall. 'Pam mae'r polisi'n anghywir?' clywaf. Roedd yn ymyriad bach, rwy'n credu, Lywydd, ond 'pam?' Mae'n anghywir oherwydd hyn: mae'r sefyllfa wedi newid. Mae'r polisi wedi bod yno ers 10 mlynedd, ond mae'r sefyllfa, Jenny, yn wahanol iawn i'r sefyllfa 10 mlynedd yn ôl. Mae ein hadrannau damweiniau ac achosion brys bellach mewn sefyllfa argyfyngus. Maent yn wynebu argyfwng, ac nid dyna'r sefyllfa yr oeddent ynddi 10 mlynedd yn ôl.

Mae'r polisi'n cael ei weithredu'n wahanol iawn rhwng byrddau iechyd. Dyma'r broblem arall. Felly, defnyddir disgresiwn dynol. Er mwyn cael syniad iawn o ba mor hir mae pobl yn aros mewn byrddau iechyd, mae'n anodd iawn gwybod rhwng un ysbyty a'r llall a rhwng un bwrdd iechyd a'r llall. Hefyd, Jenny, mae'n cymryd llawer iawn o amser gweinyddol bob wythnos pan fydd yn rhaid i staff clinigol neu staff gweinyddol fynd drwy a chael gwared, i bob pwrpas, ar faint o amser mae pobl yn aros mewn adrannau damweiniau ac achosion brys er mwyn cyhoeddi'r ystadegau hynny; amser y credaf y gellid ei dreulio mewn ffyrdd gwell. Mae'n debyg mai'r cwestiwn mawr yw: pwy na fyddai eisiau cael syniad cywir o ba mor hir y mae pobl yn aros mewn adrannau damweiniau ac achosion brys? Nid yw hyn yn dda i gleifion, nid dyma mae clinigwyr ei eisiau, felly yr unig bobl y buaswn i'n awgrymu nad ydynt am gael syniad cywir o amseroedd aros damweiniau ac achosion brys os ydynt yn waeth yw'r Llywodraeth yn wir.

Felly, nid rhywbeth sydd newydd ddigwydd nawr yw hyn; nid rhywbeth sydd ond wedi dod yn amlwg yn ystod yr wythnos ddiwethaf; mae hyn yn rhywbeth y mae'r coleg brenhinol wedi bod yn ei godi gyda'r Gweinidog mewn cyfarfodydd a gohebiaeth ers peth amser, ac mae'r Llywodraeth wedi methu mynd i'r afael â'r sefyllfa'n ddigonol dros gyfnod o amser. Felly, yn anffodus, mae angen inni gyrraedd sefyllfa lle mae gwybodaeth gyfredol a chywir yn cael ei darparu am yr hyn sy'n digwydd yn ein hadrannau damweiniau ac achosion brys.

16:30

Rwyf wedi dethol y tri gwelliant i’r cynnig. Os derbynnir gwelliant 1, caiff gwelliannau 2 a 3 eu dad-ddethol. Galwaf ar y Gweinidog Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol i gynnig yn ffurfiol welliant 1 a gyflwynwyd yn enw Lesley Griffiths.

I have selected the three amendments to the motion. If amendment 1 is agreed, amendments 2 and 3 will be deselected. I call on the Minister for Health and Social Services to move formally amendment 1, tabled in the name of Lesley Griffiths.

Gwelliant 1—Lesley Griffiths

Dileu popeth ar ôl pwynt 1 a rhoi yn ei le:

Yn nodi'r sicrwydd gan y byrddau iechyd bod data adrannau achosion brys wedi’u hadrodd yn unol â chanllawiau Llywodraeth Cymru.

Yn nodi bod y Swyddfa Rheoleiddio Ystadegau annibynnol wedi croesawu'r camau y mae Llywodraeth Cymru wedi'u cymryd i roi sicrwydd ynghylch ansawdd yr ystadegau.

Yn nodi, yn seiliedig ar gydymffurfiaeth y byrddau iechyd â’r canllawiau sydd gennym yng Nghymru, yr ystyrir bod modd cymharu ystadegau Cymru ar gyfer adrannau achosion brys mawr â’r ystadegau ar gyfer adrannau damweiniau ac achosion brys Math 1 yn Lloegr.

Yn nodi ymhellach bod gwaith yn mynd rhagddo ar y cyd â defnyddwyr gwasanaethau a chlinigwyr i adolygu'r ffordd yr ydym yn mesur ansawdd y gofal mewn adrannau achosion brys.

Amendment 1—Lesley Griffiths

Delete all after point 1 and replace with:

Notes the assurance from health boards that emergency department data have been reported in line with Welsh Government guidance.

Notes that the independent Office for Statistics Regulation has welcomed the steps the Welsh Government has taken to provide assurance on the quality of the statistics.

Notes that, based on compliance by health boards with the guidance we have in Wales, Welsh statistics for major emergency departments are considered comparable to the statistics for England’s Type 1 accident and emergency departments.

Further notes that work is ongoing in partnership with service users and clinicians to review the way we measure the quality of care in emergency departments.

Cynigiwyd gwelliant 1.

Amendment 1 moved.

Ffurfiol.

Formally.

Galwaf ar Mabon ap Gwynfor i gynnig gwelliannau 2 a 3 a gyflwynwyd yn enw Heledd Fychan.

I call on Mabon ap Gwynfor to move amendments 2 and 3, tabled in the name of Heledd Fychan.

Gwelliant 2—Heledd Fychan

Ychwanegu pwyntiau newydd ar ôl pwynt 2. ac ail-rifo yn unol â hynny:

Yn nodi bod gan 82 y cant o arweinwyr clinigol a meddygon ymgynghorol a arolygwyd gan y Coleg Brenhinol Meddygaeth Frys olwg negyddol ar y polisi torri eithriadau.

Yn gresynu bod amseroedd aros damweiniau ac achosion brys wedi gwaethygu ers i'r polisi gael ei gyflwyno dros ddeng mlynedd yn ôl.

Yn credu bod y polisi yn peryglu gallu'r gwasanaethau brys i gynllunio a rheoli eu hadnoddau yn effeithiol.

Amendment 2—Heledd Fychan

Add as new points after point 2. and renumber accordingly:

Notes that 82 per cent of clinical leads and consultants surveyed by the Royal College of Emergency Medicine have a negative view of the breach exemptions policy.

Regrets that accident and emergency waiting times have worsened since the policy was introduced over ten years ago.

Believes that the policy compromises the ability of emergency services to plan and manage their resources effectively.

Gwelliant 3—Heledd Fychan

Ym mhwynt 3, dileu is-bwynt b) a rhoi yn ei le:

dileu'r polisi torri eithriadau yn unol â dymuniadau'r Coleg Brenhinol Meddygaeth Frys.

Amendment 3—Heledd Fychan

In point 3, delete sub-point b) and replace with:

rescind the breach exemptions policy in line with the wishes of the Royal College of Emergency Medicine.

Cynigiwyd gwelliannau 2 a 3.

Amendments 2 and 3 moved.

Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd. Dwi'n cynnig y gwelliannau ac yn diolch i Russell George a’r Ceidwadwyr am y cyfle i gyfrannu at y drafodaeth yma.

Thank you, Dirprwy Lywydd. I move the amendments and thank Russell George and the Conservatives for the opportunity to contribute to this debate.

As we approach the winter months, which will inevitably bring additional pressures on our NHS, it’s vital that serious consideration is given to every possible means of supporting front-line services, but the framing of the debate has so far fundamentally missed the bigger picture. The Welsh Government has fixated on the semantics of how A&E data is presented, yet the reality is that the breach exemptions policy itself is simply not fit for purpose. This suggests that the Government have not actually taken the time to fully understand the concerns that are being raised by the RCEM. If they had, as we have done, then they would know that at no point were the RCEM claiming that the Welsh Government were deliberately underreporting emergency department performance data in its entirety. That is why I found the Welsh Government’s response to the story that broke last week, which implied that the RCEM had misrepresented the guidelines on breach exemptions, to be particularly unhelpful, and frankly patronising.

Plaid Cymru has emphasised for some time that the NHS is nothing without its legion of diligent and devoted staff, and part of this ethos is recognising that the people who are best placed to evaluate the relative merits of health policies are those who work in the NHS on a day-to-day basis. And in this respect, the RCEM have been clear that the breach exemption policy as it currently exists is compromising the ability of emergency services to plan and manage their resources. This is reflected by the overwhelming opposition of clinical leads and consultants to the use of breach exemptions, with 82 per cent of those surveyed by the RCEM holding a negative view of the policy.

Jenny asked why; it’s not hard to see why. Breach exemptions have created an unhelpful sense of ambiguity as to the extent of demand on emergency departments. If the clock is stopped when recording the duration of patients’ emergency care for whatever reason listed in the breach exemption guidelines, the policy doesn’t alter the fact that they remain in A&E with the resourcing and capacity implications that this necessitates. Furthermore, the RCEM has confirmed that breach exemptions are applied inconsistently across Welsh health boards due to the inherently subjective nature of the qualifying criteria. This has exacerbated the bureaucratic workloads of staff without materially improving patient outcomes.

In the meantime, A&E waiting times have deteriorated across every metric since the policy was introduced in 2011, even with the exclusion of breach exemption figures from the published data. In August 2011, 8.8 per cent of Welsh patients were waiting more than four hours in A&E; in August 2023, it was 31 per cent. In August 2011, 1.7 per cent of Welsh patients were waiting longer than eight hours in A&E; in August 2023, that figure was 17.4 per cent. In April 2013, 2.7 per cent were waiting longer than 12 hours for emergency care; by August this year, that figure was 10.9 per cent.

When I asked the Minister last week for the Welsh Government's rationale for sticking with a policy that is opposed by so many healthcare professionals and that has not led to any discernable improvement in A&E waiting times in Wales, and which was abandoned some time ago by the other nations of the UK, the Minister stated that it had been introduced at the behest of clinicians in 2011. The Minister also mentioned that the increase in A&E waiting times that has been experienced over the past decade is a natural consequence of Wales's ageing population and the impact of the pandemic. Now, I don't dispute either line of argument in isolation, but to combine both as a justification for continuing with a breach exemption policy is contradictory and disingenuous. You can't on the one hand point to the fact that the pressures facing emergency departments are very different and more challenging now compared to previous years while at the same time insist that the views of healthcare professional from over a decade ago must remain the basis for present-day policy making. Rather than indulging in these kinds of mental gymnastics to save face, the Welsh Government should be listening to what the likes of the RCEM are telling them right now on how to effectively manage the challenges in the here and the now. 

I welcome the fact that the Minister has pledged to actively engage with clinicians and service users to drive improvements in the quality of care in emergency departments, including options for more meaningful ways to measure patient experience and outcomes, but it's essential that this doesn't simply lead to more tinkering around the edges, with decisions and more substantive reforms being kicked into the long grass, because all of the evidence is showing us, loud and clear, that we simply don't have any time to lose in addressing the deep-rooted structural issues in our health service. That's why Plaid Cymru is pleased to introduce today's amendment, calling for the breach exemption policy to be scrapped, in line with the express wishes of the RCEM. 

Wrth i ni nesáu at fisoedd y gaeaf, a fydd yn anochel yn rhoi pwysau ychwanegol ar ein GIG, mae'n hanfodol fod ystyriaeth ddifrifol yn cael ei rhoi i bob dull posibl o gefnogi gwasanaethau rheng flaen, ond mae'r ffordd y mae'r ddadl wedi cael ei fframio hyd yma wedi methu cyfleu'r darlun ehangach yn sylfaenol. Mae Llywodraeth Cymru wedi canolbwyntio ar semanteg y modd y mae data adrannau damweiniau ac achosion brys yn cael ei gyflwyno, ond y gwir amdani yw nad yw'r polisi eithriadau ei hun yn addas i'r diben. Mae hyn yn awgrymu nad yw'r Llywodraeth wedi rhoi amser i ddeall yn llawn y pryderon sy'n cael eu codi gan y Coleg Brenhinol Meddygaeth Frys. Pe baent wedi gwneud hynny, fel y gwnaethom ni, byddent yn gwybod nad oedd y Coleg Brenhinol Meddygaeth Frys yn honni ar unrhyw adeg fod Llywodraeth Cymru yn mynd ati'n fwriadol i dangofnodi data perfformiad adrannau argyfwng yn ei gyfanrwydd. Dyna pam fy mod yn credu bod ymateb Llywodraeth Cymru i'r stori a ymddangosodd yr wythnos diwethaf, a oedd yn awgrymu bod y Coleg Brenhinol Meddygaeth Frys wedi camddarlunio'r canllawiau ar eithriadau, yn eithriadol o ddi-fudd, ac yn nawddoglyd a dweud y gwir.

Mae Plaid Cymru wedi pwysleisio ers peth amser nad yw'r GIG yn ddim byd heb ei lleng o staff diwyd ac ymroddedig, a rhan o'r ethos hwn yw cydnabod mai'r bobl sydd yn y sefyllfa orau i werthuso rhinweddau cymharol polisïau iechyd yw'r rhai sy'n gweithio yn y GIG o ddydd i ddydd. Ac yn hyn o beth, mae'r Coleg Brenhinol Meddygaeth Frys wedi bod yn glir fod y polisi eithriadau fel y mae'n bodoli ar hyn o bryd yn peryglu gallu'r gwasanaethau argyfwng i gynllunio a rheoli eu hadnoddau. Adlewyrchir hyn gan wrthwynebiad helaeth ymhlith arweinwyr clinigol a meddygon ymgynghorol i'r defnydd o eithriadau, gydag 82 y cant o'r rhai a arolygwyd gan y Coleg Brenhinol Meddygaeth Frys yn meddu ar farn negyddol ar y polisi.

Gofynnodd Jenny pam; nid yw'n anodd gweld pam. Mae eithriadau wedi creu ymdeimlad di-fudd o amwysedd ynglŷn â maint y galw ar adrannau argyfwng. Os yw'r cloc yn cael ei stopio wrth gofnodi hyd gofal brys cleifion am ba reswm bynnag a restrir yn y canllawiau ar eithriadau, nid yw'r polisi'n newid y ffaith eu bod yn aros mewn adrannau damweiniau ac achosion brys gyda'r goblygiadau i adnoddau a chapasiti sy'n deillio o hynny. Ar ben hynny, mae'r Coleg Brenhinol Meddygaeth Frys wedi cadarnhau bod eithriadau'n cael eu cymhwyso'n anghyson ar draws byrddau iechyd Cymru oherwydd natur gynhenid oddrychol y meini prawf cymhwyso. Mae hyn wedi gwaethygu llwyth gwaith biwrocrataidd staff heb wella canlyniadau i gleifion yn sylweddol.

Yn y cyfamser, mae amseroedd aros adrannau damweiniau ac achosion brys wedi dirywio ar draws pob metrig ers i'r polisi gael ei gyflwyno yn 2011, a hynny er bod y ffigurau ar eithriadau wedi cael eu hepgor o'r data cyhoeddedig. Ym mis Awst 2011, roedd 8.8 y cant o gleifion Cymru yn aros mwy na phedair awr mewn adrannau damweiniau ac achosion brys; ym mis Awst 2023, roedd y ffigur hwnnw'n 31 y cant. Ym mis Awst 2011, roedd 1.7 y cant o gleifion Cymru yn aros mwy nag wyth awr mewn adrannau damweiniau ac achosion brys; ym mis Awst 2023, roedd yn 17.4 y cant. Ym mis Ebrill 2013, roedd 2.7 y cant yn aros mwy na 12 awr am ofal argyfwng; erbyn mis Awst eleni, roedd y ffigur hwnnw'n 10.9 y cant.

Pan ofynnais i'r Gweinidog yr wythnos diwethaf am resymeg Llywodraeth Cymru dros lynu wrth bolisi sy'n cael ei wrthwynebu gan gynifer o weithwyr gofal iechyd proffesiynol ac nad yw wedi arwain at unrhyw welliant amlwg yn amseroedd aros adrannau damweiniau ac achosion brys yng Nghymru, ac a gafodd ei ollwng beth amser yn ôl gan wledydd eraill y DU, dywedodd y Gweinidog ei fod wedi cael ei gyflwyno ar gais clinigwyr yn 2011. Soniodd y Gweinidog hefyd fod y cynnydd mewn amseroedd aros adrannau damweiniau ac achosion brys sydd wedi'u profi dros y degawd diwethaf yn ganlyniad naturiol i boblogaeth sy'n heneiddio yng Nghymru ac effaith y pandemig. Nawr, nid wyf yn anghytuno â'r dadleuon hynny ar eu pennau eu hunain, ond mae cyfuno'r ddau beth fel cyfiawnhad dros barhau â pholisi eithriadau yn anghyson ac yn anonest. Ni allwch dynnu sylw at y ffaith bod y pwysau sy'n wynebu adrannau argyfwng yn wahanol iawn ac yn fwy heriol nawr o'i gymharu â blynyddoedd blaenorol a mynnu ar yr un pryd fod yn rhaid i farn gweithwyr gofal iechyd proffesiynol o dros ddegawd yn ôl barhau i fod yn sail ar gyfer llunio polisïau heddiw. Yn hytrach nag ymroi i'r mathau hyn o gymnasteg feddyliol i gadw wyneb, dylai Llywodraeth Cymru wrando ar yr hyn y mae pobl fel y Coleg Brenhinol Meddygaeth Frys yn ei ddweud wrthynt nawr ynglŷn â sut i reoli'r heriau sy'n ein wynebu ni ar hyn o bryd yn effeithiol. 

Rwy'n croesawu'r ffaith bod y Gweinidog wedi addo ymgysylltu'n weithredol â chlinigwyr a defnyddwyr gwasanaethau i sbarduno gwelliannau yn ansawdd y gofal mewn adrannau argyfwng, gan gynnwys opsiynau ar gyfer ffyrdd mwy ystyrlon o fesur profiad a chanlyniadau cleifion, ond mae'n hanfodol nad yw hyn yn arwain at fwy o dincran ar yr ymylon, gyda phenderfyniadau a diwygiadau mwy sylweddol yn cael eu gosod i'r naill ochr, oherwydd mae'r holl dystiolaeth yn dangos i ni, yn gwbl glir, nad oes gennym unrhyw amser i'w golli wrth fynd i'r afael â'r problemau strwythurol dwfn yn ein gwasanaeth iechyd. Dyna pam mae Plaid Cymru yn falch o gyflwyno'r gwelliant heddiw, yn galw am ddiddymu'r polisi eithriadau, yn unol â dymuniadau datganedig y Coleg Brenhinol Meddygaeth Frys. 

16:35

It gives me no great pleasure to take part in this debate today. As important as it is, we should not have to have the same conversation over and over again. While on the surface this debate is about the importance of meaningful and transparent data, we cannot forget that each of these so-called data points are people—people with hopes and dreams, worries and fears, just like each of us here in this Chamber. We are not talking about abstracts here, we're not discussing statistical curves, we're talking about human beings—human beings who just want to lead healthy and fulfilled lives. 

The World Health Organization defines health as a state of complete physical, mental and social well-being, and not merely the absence of disease or infirmity. Their constitution states that informed opinion and active co-operation on the part of the public are of the utmost importance in the improvement of the health of the people. Government have a responsibility for the health of their people, which can be fulfilled only by the provision of adequate health and social measures. By this definition and by any rational definition, we are failing.

Our care pathways are broken, bottlenecks exist throughout the system, which get worse every time there's a bad flu season. Now, with the added complication of COVID in the mix, it is little wonder that we have over 27,000 people waiting for more than two years for treatment. Compare that to the English NHS, which only has 300 people awaiting treatment. It is incredible. Almost 1 per cent of the Welsh population waiting for years in pain and discomfort, compared to 0.001 per cent of the English population. We spend more per head on health, so where are we going wrong? Why did we have 16 ambulances queuing up outside a major hospital in my region? Why was one of those ambulances waiting outside the A&E department for 28 hours? The answer is as simple as it is complex.

At its root is bad planning and mismanagement. The complexity comes from looking at who is making the bad decisions. Sadly it is every tier, from the top to the bottom, from the Welsh Government to local government officials. The First Minister told us yesterday that there had been plenty of ambulances on the roads at the weekend, but the problem with Morriston lay with the flow into the hospital. He is right, of course, but he can't shirk responsibility. It was his Government that failed to plan for adequate social provision. It is his particular dogma that is leading to the closure of private care providers.

The Hollins Care Centre in Cimla is being forced to close despite a good inspection report just weeks ago, without any coherent reasoning from the council and to the dismay of the residents and staff. I was deeply shocked to see the reports of long-term residents in tears as they were loaded onto ambulances. We don't have enough care provision, and yet councils across the nation are waging war on private providers, driven by little more than political hatred of the private sector in care.

We saw the scenes when RCT decided to outsource long-term care provision—the unions were up in arms—but in the real world there is no public sector care provision, and, as a result, the scenes at Morriston A&E are, according to the First Minister, more likely to occur. It is time for the Welsh Government to stop doctoring the figures, admit their failings and get on with fixing our NHS. Diolch yn fawr.

Nid yw'n rhoi pleser i mi gymryd rhan yn y ddadl hon heddiw. Er mor bwysig yw hi, ni ddylem orfod cael yr un sgwrs dro ar ôl tro. Er bod y ddadl hon ar yr wyneb yn ymwneud â phwysigrwydd data ystyrlon a thryloyw, ni allwn anghofio bod pob un o'r pwyntiau data hyn, fel y'u gelwir, yn bobl—pobl â gobeithion a breuddwydion, pryderon ac ofnau, yn union fel pob un ohonom yma yn y Siambr. Nid ydym yn sôn am gysyniadau haniaethol yma, nid ydym yn trafod cromliniau ystadegol, rydym yn sôn am fodau dynol—bodau dynol sydd ond eisiau byw bywydau iach a bodlon.

Mae Sefydliad Iechyd y Byd yn diffinio iechyd fel cyflwr o lesiant corfforol, meddyliol a chymdeithasol cyflawn, ac nid absenoldeb afiechyd neu wendid yn unig. Mae eu cyfansoddiad yn nodi bod barn wybodus a chydweithrediad gweithredol ar ran y cyhoedd o'r pwys mwyaf wrth wella iechyd y bobl. Mae gan y Llywodraeth gyfrifoldeb dros iechyd ei phobl, ac ni ellir ond ei gyflawni drwy ddarparu mesurau iechyd a chymdeithasol digonol. Yn ôl y diffiniad hwn, ac yn ôl unrhyw ddiffiniad rhesymegol, rydym yn methu.

Mae ein llwybrau gofal wedi torri, mae tagfeydd yn bodoli drwy'r system, sy'n gwaethygu bob tro y ceir tymor ffliw gwael. Nawr, gyda chymhlethdod ychwanegol COVID yn y gymysgedd, nid yw'n fawr o syndod fod gennym dros 27,000 o bobl yn aros am fwy na dwy flynedd am driniaeth. Cymharwch hynny â GIG Lloegr, lle nad oes ond 300 o bobl yn aros am driniaeth. Mae'n anhygoel. Mae bron i 1 y cant o boblogaeth Cymru yn aros am flynyddoedd mewn poen ac anesmwythder, o'i gymharu â 0.001 y cant o boblogaeth Lloegr. Rydym yn gwario mwy y pen ar iechyd, felly beth sydd o'i le? Pam oedd gennym 16 ambiwlans yn ciwio y tu allan i ysbyty mawr yn fy rhanbarth? Pam oedd un o'r ambiwlansys hynny'n aros y tu allan i'r adran ddamweiniau ac achosion brys am 28 awr? Mae'r ateb lawn mor syml ag y mae'n gymhleth.

Wrth ei wraidd, mae cynllunio gwael a chamreoli. Daw'r cymhlethdod o edrych ar bwy sy'n gwneud y penderfyniadau gwael. Yn anffodus, mae'n wir am bob haen, o'r brig i'r gwaelod, o Lywodraeth Cymru i swyddogion llywodraeth leol. Dywedodd y Prif Weinidog wrthym ddoe fod digon o ambiwlansys ar y ffyrdd dros y penwythnos, ond bod y broblem gydag ysbyty Treforys yn ymwneud â'r llif i mewn i'r ysbyty. Mae'n gywir, wrth gwrs, ond nid yw'n gallu osgoi cyfrifoldeb. Ei Lywodraeth ef a fethodd gynllunio ar gyfer darpariaeth gymdeithasol ddigonol. Ei ddogma benodol ef sy'n arwain at gau darparwyr gofal preifat.

Mae Hollins Care Centre yng Nghimla yn cael ei gorfodi i gau er gwaethaf adroddiad arolygu da ychydig wythnosau'n ôl yn unig, heb unrhyw resymu cydlynol gan y cyngor ac er gofid i'r preswylwyr a'r staff. Cefais sioc fawr o weld adroddiadau bod trigolion hirdymor yn eu dagrau wrth iddynt gael eu llwytho ar ambiwlansys. Nid oes gennym ddigon o ddarpariaeth gofal, ac eto mae cynghorau ledled y wlad yn datgan rhyfel ar ddarparwyr preifat, wedi'u sbarduno gan fawr mwy na chasineb gwleidyddol o'r sector gofal preifat ym maes gofal.

Gwelsom y goblygiadau pan benderfynodd Rhondda Cynon Taf allanoli darpariaeth gofal hirdymor—roedd yr undebau'n gynddeiriog—ond yn y byd go iawn nid oes darpariaeth gofal sector cyhoeddus, ac o ganlyniad, mae'r digwyddiadau yn adran ddamweiniau ac achosion brys ysbyty Treforys, yn ôl y Prif Weinidog, yn fwy tebygol o ddigwydd. Mae'n bryd i Lywodraeth Cymru roi'r gorau i ystumio'r ffigurau, cyfaddef eu methiannau a bwrw ati i wella ein GIG. Diolch yn fawr.

16:40

Thank you. Picking up on what Altaf was saying, if you have ambulances queuing up outside emergency departments as happened last week, you clearly need to ensure that the hospital beds that we have are reserved for the people who need secondary care. That means we need to be really careful about who we are admitting to hospital. If the triage has been done correctly by the ambulance staff, it is likely that those people are the people arriving in ambulances, but not necessarily the case. So, I think what I want to find out in this debate are what are the perverse incentives, if any, to admit people in order to avoid the four and eight-hour wait lists that have to be compiled. I don't buy Russell's argument that it takes a lot of time to compile lists. Of course it takes time to compile lists, but it can be done by a competent administrator to compile the statistics. What you have here is a policy that, I think, was established in 2011, shortly after you and I were elected. The Welsh Government put out a guidance to all clinical directors to explain who needed to be diverted from being on an emergency waiting list were those who were so seriously ill that they could not be moved, those who needed the continued care of emergency department specialists, and those who, despite the best efforts of clinicians, were imminently going to die. [Interruption.] Happy to take it, Altaf.

Diolch. Gan ddilyn yr hyn roedd Altaf yn ei ddweud, os oes gennych ambiwlansys yn ciwio y tu allan i adrannau argyfwng fel roedd gennym yr wythnos diwethaf, mae'n amlwg fod angen ichi sicrhau bod y gwelyau ysbyty sydd gennym yn cael eu cadw ar gyfer y bobl sydd angen gofal eilaidd. Mae hynny'n golygu bod angen inni fod yn ofalus iawn ynghylch pwy rydym yn eu derbyn i'r ysbyty. Os yw staff yr ambiwlans wedi brysbennu'n gywir, mae'n debygol mai'r bobl hynny yw'r bobl sy'n cyrraedd mewn ambiwlansys, ond nid yw hynny o reidrwydd yn wir bob tro. Felly, rwy'n credu mai'r hyn rwyf eisiau ei ddarganfod yn y ddadl hon yw'r cymhellion annerbyniol, os oes rhai, dros dderbyn pobl er mwyn osgoi'r rhestrau aros pedair ac wyth awr sy'n rhaid eu llunio. Nid wyf yn derbyn dadl Russell ei bod yn cymryd llawer o amser i lunio rhestrau. Wrth gwrs ei bod yn cymryd amser i lunio rhestrau, ond gall gweinyddwr cymwys lunio'r ystadegau. Yr hyn sydd gennych chi yma yw polisi a sefydlwyd yn 2011, yn fuan ar ôl i chi a minnau gael ein hethol. Cyflwynodd Llywodraeth Cymru ganllawiau i'r holl gyfarwyddwyr clinigol i egluro mai'r rhai yr oedd angen eu dargyfeirio rhag bod ar restr aros gofal argyfwng oedd y rhai a oedd mor ddifrifol wael fel na ellid eu symud, y rhai a oedd angen gofal parhaus arbenigwyr mewn adrannau argyfwng, a'r rhai a oedd, er gwaethaf ymdrechion gorau clinigwyr, ar fin marw. [Torri ar draws.] Rwy'n hapus iawn i dderbyn ymyriad, Altaf.

Thank you very much, Jenny. Each A&E department should be with an observation ward of 30 to 50 patients. Unless you have that, you will always have this problem in the A&E department—No.1. No. 2, we don't know about the other part of the curve: how many doctors are treating those patients at a given time?

Diolch yn fawr iawn, Jenny. Dylai pob adran ddamweiniau ac achosion brys fod â ward arsylwi o 30 i 50 o gleifion. Oni bai bod gennych chi'r ward honno, fe fydd y broblem hon gennych chi bob amser yn yr adran ddamweiniau ac achosion brys—Rhif 1. Rhif 2, nid ydym yn gwybod am ran arall y gromlin: faint o feddygon sy'n trin y cleifion hynny ar unrhyw adeg benodol?

Thank you. Obviously, there needs to be an observation bay or an observation department. If there is a clinical decision that somebody needs—. The second category of person who should not be moved is somebody who needs a short period of intensive investigation to rule out a serious illness, as opposed to a temporary health crisis that has been resolved by medicine or some other intervention—someone who needs to be observed for a few hours to ensure that there isn't a more serious problem that requires them to be admitted. If somebody has to be sedated in order to perform a painful dislocation or something like that, they may need observation as well. [Interruption.] No, I'm not taking an intervention. I'm going to make some progress.

There are also people who've ingested drugs or alcohol to such an extent that they might be at risk of choking on their own vomit. These sorts of things are important reasons why we need to keep somebody under observation. They might have had a minor head injury. It might be minor, but it might be a concussion, which could be a more serious issue. These are really important clinical decisions that doctors have to make, and therefore they need to be—

Diolch. Yn amlwg, mae angen bae arsylwi neu adran arsylwi. Os oes rhywun angen penderfyniad clinigol—. Yr ail gategori o bobl na ddylid eu symud yw pobl sydd angen cyfnod byr o archwiliad dwys i ddiystyru salwch difrifol, yn hytrach nag argyfwng iechyd dros dro sydd wedi'i ddatrys gan feddygaeth neu ryw ymyrraeth arall—rhywun y dylid arsylwi arnynt am ychydig oriau i sicrhau nad oes problem fwy difrifol a fyddai'n golygu bod yn rhaid iddynt gael eu derbyn i'r ysbyty. Os oes rhaid tawelyddu rhywun er mwyn ailosod ysigiad poenus neu rywbeth felly, efallai y bydd angen arsylwi arnyn nhw hefyd. [Torri ar draws.] Na, nid wyf am dderbyn unrhyw ymyriad. Rwyf am fwrw yn fy mlaen.

Mae yna hefyd bobl sydd wedi cymryd cyffuriau neu yfed alcohol i'r fath raddau fel y gallent fod mewn perygl o dagu ar eu cyfog eu hunain. Mae'r mathau hyn o bethau yn rhesymau pwysig pam mae angen inni arsylwi ar rai pobl. Efallai eu bod wedi cael mân anaf i'r pen. Gallai fod yn anaf bach, ond gallai fod yn gyfergyd, a allai fod yn fater mwy difrifol. Mae'r rhain yn benderfyniadau clinigol pwysig iawn y mae'n rhaid i feddygon eu gwneud, ac felly mae angen iddynt fod—

16:45

I beg your pardon, we're talking—[Interruption.] 

Mae'n ddrwg gennyf, rydym yn siarad—[Torri ar draws.]  

Eight hours without seeing a clinician if you've got a head injury.

Wyth awr heb weld clinigydd os oes gennych anaf i'r pen.

We're not talking about that; we're talking about the way in which we are managing our emergency department.

I attended the event organised by the Royal College of Emergency Medicine that took place in the Senedd back in January. Eluned Morgan was there, as were two or three other Members, and I don't remember them harping on about this method of deciding who needed to be under observation as opposed to some of the other issues that I can share with you if you so wish.

Nid ydym yn siarad am hynny; rydym yn siarad am y ffordd y rheolwn ein hadrannau argyfwng.

Mynychais y digwyddiad a drefnwyd gan y Coleg Brenhinol Meddygaeth Frys a gynhaliwyd yn y Senedd yn ôl ym mis Ionawr. Roedd Eluned Morgan yno, ynghyd â dau neu dri Aelod arall, ac nid wyf yn eu cofio nhw'n rhygnu ymlaen am y dull o benderfynu pwy y dylid arsylwi arnynt yn hytrach na rhai o'r materion eraill y gallaf eu rhannu gyda chi, os dymunwch.

Actually, Jenny, if you speak to them again, they'll send you a copy of the correspondence that they sent to the Minister on this last year, and the Minister responded last year, unhelpfully in their view. So, this is something that they've been raising with the Minister for some time.

Mewn gwirionedd, Jenny, os siaradwch chi â nhw eto, fe wnânt anfon copi atoch o'r ohebiaeth y gwnaethant ei hanfon at y Gweinidog ar hyn y llynedd, ac ymatebodd y Gweinidog y llynedd, yn ddi-fudd yn eu barn nhw. Felly, mae hwn yn fater y maent wedi bod yn ei godi gyda'r Gweinidog ers peth amser.

They didn't raise it in this important meeting, which I find really interesting, where they talked about the need for one consultant per 4,000, and the fact that, on average, we have over 7,500 patients per consultant, with the best emergency department having just short of 5,000. So, they flagged up to us that we need 100 extra emergency department consultants by 2027. These are really significant issues and really important issues.

What I'm concerned about is that we are having so much discussion about the methodology by which we are defining who is waiting as opposed to being under clinical observation, when we should be discussing some of these other much more important issues, which is to ensure that we do have enough people in the emergency department who are dealing with those who need to be in the emergency department, as opposed to needing support in primary care. These are the challenges—that we shouldn't have so many people turning up in an emergency department who don't actually need secondary care.

We have done a lot of things. The Government has done a lot of things to prevent people coming into the emergency department unnecessarily. Clearly, there was a huge amount of build-up of unmet need during COVID, and we're still struggling with that, but I think we really do need a rational discussion about this, and whether the way in which we calculate those who are under observation for clinical reasons—

Ni wnaethant ei godi yn y cyfarfod pwysig hwn, ac rwy'n meddwl bod hynny'n ddiddorol iawn, lle buont yn siarad am yr angen am un meddyg ymgynghorol i bob 4,000, a'r ffaith bod gennym dros 7,500 o gleifion i bob meddyg ymgynghorol ar gyfartaledd, gyda'r adran argyfwng orau ag ychydig o dan 5,000. Felly, fe wnaethant dynnu sylw at y ffaith ein bod angen 100 o feddygon ymgynghorol ychwanegol mewn adrannau argyfwng erbyn 2027. Mae'r rhain yn faterion sylweddol a phwysig iawn.

Yr hyn rwy'n poeni amdano yw ein bod yn cael cymaint o drafodaeth am y fethodoleg ar gyfer diffinio pwy sy'n aros yn hytrach na phwy sy'n cael eu harsylwi'n glinigol, pan ddylem fod yn trafod rhai o'r materion llawer pwysicach, sef sicrhau bod gennym ddigon o bobl yn yr adran argyfwng i ymdrin â'r rhai sydd angen bod yno, yn hytrach na'r rhai sydd angen cymorth mewn gofal sylfaenol. Dyma'r heriau—ni ddylai fod gennym gymaint o bobl nad oes angen gofal eilaidd arnynt yn mynychu adran argyfwng mewn gwirionedd.

Rydym wedi gwneud llawer o bethau. Mae'r Llywodraeth wedi gwneud llawer o bethau i atal pobl rhag mynychu'r adran argyfwng yn ddiangen. Yn amlwg, roedd gennym ôl-groniad mawr o angen heb ei ddiwallu yn ystod COVID, ac rydym yn dal i gael trafferth gyda hynny, ond rwy'n credu bod gwir angen trafodaeth resymol am hyn, ac a yw'r ffordd rydym yn cyfrif y rhai yr arsylwir arnynt am resymau clinigol—

Jenny, I have given you additional time for interventions. You need to conclude now, please. 

Jenny, rwyf wedi rhoi amser ychwanegol i chi ar gyfer ymyriadau. Mae angen i chi ddirwyn i ben nawr, os gwelwch yn dda. 

—is getting in the way of the actual statistics that we need, or whether it's an excuse for defensive medicine. 

—yn mynd yn ffordd yr ystadegau go iawn sydd eu hangen arnom, neu a yw'n esgus dros feddygaeth amddiffynnol. 

I thank Russell George for opening this really important debate. The importance of meaningful and transparent data in improving patient safety and their care cannot be understated. Without this accountability, we have no idea, do we, of how our NHS is performing, which can lead to patients not receiving the full care they deserve. And as we've heard, from the Royal College of Emergency Medicine, due to not having an accurate portrayal we are misleading ourselves, the Government, the people, and that is absolutely wrong. Doctors themselves have warned that this is masking the underlying issues in our NHS, and we are not getting the full picture of the pressures facing our front-line staff and our patients.

In recent times, the health Minister has tried to deflect from Labour's poor record on managing the NHS by comparing our A&E times between England and Wales. However, concerns regarding the validity of the Welsh Government's data and their records calls this into question. Wales is the only part of the United Kingdom, as we've heard, that records the data in this way, and, as we've also heard, clinicians from all health boards have said that the Government should publish figures without the application of breach exemptions, so that we can get that clear picture.

As Altaf has said, we still have 27,000 people in Wales—and let's put that into context, out of 3 million population—waiting for two years for treatment, a much higher rate than in England, where there are only 300 in a population of 56 million. I think it's incredibly important to highlight these figures, considering the financial difficulties the Welsh NHS is going through as a result of the Government's mismanagement.

It is a fact—and I've said it before in this place, only recently—that the fiscal framework enables the Welsh Government to receive 20 per cent more to spend per person on health in Wales than is spent on health in England. But as we know, not all of that funding is being allocated to the health service here, nor has it for years. I've said it before and I'll say it again: if Labour had allocated more of the funding by the UK Government to health, our NHS would have had the resilience it desperately needs, and we wouldn't be in this alarming situation with waiting lists as they are in Wales. Rather, our health boards are now facing budget deficits of hundreds of millions of pounds.

These pressures are leading to performance issues across the country. In my own constituency, 50.7 per cent of people have to wait for four hours to be seen in A&E—much higher than the Wales-wide average of 31 per cent. Furthermore, 20.8 per cent of patients were waiting over 12 hours to be seen—an astonishing 10 per cent higher than the Wales-wide average. Sadly, the Grange has also seen poor performances when it comes to stroke care, with just 22.85 per cent of patients being admitted to a stroke unit within four hours, with the median time to admit being 9.5 hours.

I do not hold our health workers responsible for these issues; they go above and beyond every day. They are facing mounting pressures, and are working tirelessly, around the clock, to provide care. It is the Welsh Government who are responsible; this sits on their shoulders. Dirprwy Lywydd, the people of Wales should be able to expect full accountability and transparency to the real situation of the health system here in Wales. They need to know how and when they can expect things to return to how they should be—they deserve that. People need to understand when they can return to that way of being that we all used to take for granted many years ago, and has now been lost, and it seems lost forever, until this Government gets to grips with this situation. I ask Members to support our motion.

Diolch i Russell George am agor y ddadl bwysig hon. Ni ellir tanddatgan pwysigrwydd data ystyrlon a thryloyw wrth wella diogelwch cleifion a'u gofal. Heb yr atebolrwydd hwn, nid oes gennym unrhyw syniad sut mae ein GIG yn perfformio, a gall hynny olygu nad yw cleifion yn cael y gofal llawn y maent yn ei haeddu. Ac fel y clywsom, gan y Coleg Brenhinol Meddygaeth Frys, am nad oes gennym ddarlun cywir, rydym yn camarwain ein hunain, y Llywodraeth, y bobl, ac mae hynny'n hollol anghywir. Mae meddygon eu hunain wedi rhybuddio bod hyn yn cuddio'r problemau sylfaenol yn ein GIG, ac nid ydym yn cael y darlun llawn o'r pwysau sy'n wynebu ein staff rheng flaen a'n cleifion.

Yn ddiweddar, mae'r Gweinidog iechyd wedi ceisio tynnu sylw oddi wrth y ffordd wael y mae Llafur wedi rheoli'r GIG drwy gymharu amseroedd aros adrannau damweiniau ac achosion brys Cymru a Lloegr. Fodd bynnag, mae pryderon ynghylch dilysrwydd data Llywodraeth Cymru a'u cofnodion yn bwrw amheuaeth ar hyn. Cymru yw'r unig ran o'r Deyrnas Unedig, fel y clywsom, sy'n cofnodi'r data yn y ffordd hon, ac fel rydym hefyd wedi'i glywed, mae clinigwyr o bob bwrdd iechyd wedi dweud y dylai'r Llywodraeth gyhoeddi ffigurau heb gymhwyso torri eithriadau, fel y gallwn gael darlun clir.

Fel y dywedodd Altaf, mae gennym 27,000 o bobl yng Nghymru o hyd—a gadewch inni roi hynny yn ei gyd-destun, o boblogaeth o 3 miliwn—yn aros am ddwy flynedd am driniaeth, cyfradd lawer uwch nag yn Lloegr, lle nad oes ond 300 mewn poblogaeth o 56 miliwn. Rwy'n credu ei bod yn hynod bwysig tynnu sylw at y ffigurau hyn, o ystyried yr anawsterau ariannol y mae GIG Cymru yn eu hwynebu o ganlyniad i gamreoli ar ran y Llywodraeth.

Mae'n ffaith—ac rwyf wedi dweud hyn o'r blaen yn y lle hwn yn ddiweddar—fod y fframwaith cyllidol yn galluogi Llywodraeth Cymru i dderbyn 20 y cant yn fwy y pen i'w wario ar iechyd yng Nghymru nag a werir ar iechyd yn Lloegr. Ond fel y gwyddom, nid yw'r holl gyllid hwnnw'n cael ei ddyrannu i'r gwasanaeth iechyd yma, ac nid yw hynny wedi digwydd ers blynyddoedd. Rwyf wedi dweud hyn o'r blaen ac rwyf am ei ddweud eto: pe bai Llafur wedi dyrannu mwy o'r cyllid gan Lywodraeth y DU i iechyd, byddai ein GIG yn meddu ar y cadernid y mae ei angen yn daer, ac ni fyddem yn y sefyllfa frawychus hon gyda rhestrau aros fel y maent yng Nghymru. Yn hytrach, mae ein byrddau iechyd bellach yn wynebu diffygion cyllidebol o gannoedd o filiynau o bunnoedd.

Mae'r pwysau hyn yn arwain at broblemau perfformiad ledled y wlad. Yn fy etholaeth fy hun, haid i 50.7 y cant o bobl aros am bedair awr i gael eu gweld mewn adrannau damweiniau ac achosion brys—llawer uwch na'r cyfartaledd o 31 y cant ar gyfer Cymru. Ar ben hynny, roedd 20.8 y cant o gleifion yn aros dros 12 awr i gael eu gweld—10 y cant yn uwch na'r cyfartaledd ledled Cymru. Yn anffodus, mae Ysbyty Athrofaol y Faenor hefyd wedi gweld perfformiadau gwael o ran gofal strôc, gyda dim ond 22.85 y cant o gleifion yn cael eu derbyn i uned strôc o fewn pedair awr, gyda'r amser canolrifol i gael eu derbyn yn 9.5 awr.

Nid ein gweithwyr iechyd sy'n gyfrifol am y problemau hyn; maent yn gweithio y tu hwnt i'r disgwyl bob dydd. Maent yn wynebu pwysau cynyddol, ac yn gweithio'n ddiflino, bob awr o'r dydd, i ddarparu gofal. Llywodraeth Cymru sy'n gyfrifol; mae'r cyfrifoldeb ar eu hysgwyddau nhw. Ddirprwy Lywydd, dylai pobl Cymru allu disgwyl tryloywder ac atebolrwydd llawn am sefyllfa go iawn y system iechyd yma yng Nghymru. Mae angen iddynt wybod sut a phryd y gallant ddisgwyl i bethau ddychwelyd i sut y dylent fod—maent yn haeddu hynny. Mae angen i bobl ddeall pryd y gallant ddychwelyd i'r ffordd o fod yr oeddem i gyd yn arfer ei chymryd yn ganiataol flynyddoedd lawer yn ôl, ac sydd bellach wedi'i cholli, ac mae'n ymddangos ein bod wedi'i cholli am byth, hyd nes yr aiff y Llywodraeth i'r afael â'r sefyllfa hon. Gofynnaf i'r Aelodau gefnogi ein cynnig.

16:50

My brief contribution here this afternoon is framed in the feeling of exasperation and frustration. I'm sure we all feel that, and I'm sure the Minister must feel that as well. I kind of finish off with an appeal. Month after month, the people of Wales have heard about the challenges of our ambulance services, the significant waiting times outside A&E, and the horror stories of people who are waiting and are having as good a service as our staff can provide. But the people of Wales can only conclude that our NHS, our precious NHS, is really splitting at the seams. Across the board, the figures continue to go in the wrong direction, and if the Royal College of Emergency Medicine is to be believed, we cannot even trust the official statistics to accurately reflect the full scale of the emergency care crisis.

The dire situation last weekend that compelled authorities to declare an extraordinary incident exemplified the chaos and agony faced by our ambulance staff. Repeatedly voicing alarm about this crisis has become a dreary and repetitive task that feels sometimes like a hopeless cry in the dark. There remains a danger that the current debate here this afternoon actually misses the mark entirely and turns a dire human problem into another petty partisan battle between Labour and the Conservatives, between Wales and England.

The exact statistics ultimately matter far less than our unified resolve to act decisively and together in the face of this emergency. If the true scale of the crisis is even greater than supposed, then our response must rise, in a dignified way, to match that scale, or we will just continue to pursue inadequate policies. Unfortunately, the Welsh Government continues to struggle to mitigate its own crisis. With a tightly constrained national budget and NHS boards under intense financial scrutiny, the Government is limited in its ability to formulate an effective response.

Rural counties like Powys, which has no hospital, rely on cross-border care and are already hamstrung by lack of access. These communities and all our communities need solutions to this crisis, specifically tailored to their needs. We must absolutely significantly boost investment in community-based care and social services to provide at the right time, the right place, with the right sort of care. Patients deserve co-ordinated care in their communities whenever possible, not anxious journeys to distant hospitals when local services are unavailable or, indeed, overwhelmed. Easing pressure on our GPs, reversing the decline in local surgeries and facilitating efficient hospital discharges would greatly help relieve the intense strain on our ambulances and our A&Es and our staff. It is clear that the current model of care for both patients and staff is absolutely unsustainable.

I remain concerned that we are politicising healthcare. I urge my colleagues, whatever political party, to work together in the spirit of cross-party collaboration, not adversarial combat. So, I do hope the Minister will reassure not just us here in the Siambr but the people of Wales that she will commit to cross-party collaboration to address the crisis of access we face and provide the credible reform and support our health service needs. Diolch yn fawr iawn.

Mae fy nghyfraniad byr yma y prynhawn yma wedi'i fframio gan ymdeimlad o gythrudd a rhwystredigaeth. Rwy'n siŵr ein bod i gyd yn teimlo hynny, ac rwy'n siŵr fod y Gweinidog yn teimlo hynny hefyd. Rwy'n rhyw fath o gloi gydag apêl. Fis ar ôl mis, mae pobl Cymru wedi clywed am heriau ein gwasanaethau ambiwlans, yr amseroedd aros sylweddol y tu allan i adrannau damweiniau ac achosion brys, a straeon arswyd pobl sy'n aros ac sy'n derbyn gwasanaeth cystal ag y gall ein staff ei ddarparu. Ond ni all pobl Cymru ond dod i'r casgliad fod ein GIG, ein GIG gwerthfawr, yn cwympo'n ddarnau. Ar draws y bwrdd, mae'r ffigurau'n parhau i fynd i'r cyfeiriad anghywir, ac os ydym am gredu'r hyn y mae'r Coleg Brenhinol Meddygaeth Frys yn ei ddweud, ni allwn hyd yn oed ymddiried yn yr ystadegau swyddogol i adlewyrchu graddfa lawn yr argyfwng gofal brys.

Roedd y sefyllfa enbyd y penwythnos diwethaf a orfododd awdurdodau i ddatgan digwyddiad eithriadol yn brawf o'r anhrefn a'r boen y mae ein staff ambiwlans yn ei wynebu. Mae rhybuddio am yr argyfwng hwn dro ar ôl tro wedi mynd yn dasg ddiflas ac ailadroddus sy'n teimlo weithiau fel cri ddiobaith yn y tywyllwch. Mae perygl o hyd fod y ddadl hon y prynhawn yma yn methu'r pwynt yn llwyr mewn gwirionedd ac yn troi problem ddynol enbyd yn frwydr bleidiol arall rhwng y Blaid Lafur a'r Ceidwadwyr, rhwng Cymru a Lloegr.

Yn y pen draw, nid yw'r union ystadegau mor bwysig â'n penderfyniad unedig i weithredu gyda'n gilydd yn benderfynol yn wyneb yr argyfwng hwn. Os yw gwir raddfa'r argyfwng hyd yn oed yn fwy na'r disgwyl, mae'n rhaid i'n hymateb godi, mewn ffordd urddasol, i gyd-fynd â'r raddfa honno, neu byddwn yn parhau i ddilyn polisïau annigonol. Yn anffodus, mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn parhau i frwydro i liniaru ei hargyfwng ei hun. Gyda chyllideb genedlaethol gyfyngedig iawn, a byrddau'r GIG yn destun craffu ariannol dwys, mae'r Llywodraeth yn gyfyngedig yn ei gallu i lunio ymateb effeithiol.

Mae siroedd gwledig fel Powys, lle nad oes ysbyty, yn dibynnu ar ofal trawsffiniol ac maent eisoes wedi'u llyffetheirio gan ddiffyg mynediad. Mae'r cymunedau hyn a'n holl gymunedau angen atebion i'r argyfwng hwn, atebion sydd wedi'u teilwra'n benodol i'w hanghenion. Mae'n rhaid inni roi hwb sylweddol i fuddsoddiad mewn gofal yn y gymuned a gwasanaethau cymdeithasol i ddarparu'r math cywir o ofal ar yr adeg gywir ac yn y lle cywir. Mae cleifion yn haeddu gofal cydgysylltiedig yn eu cymunedau lle bynnag y bo modd, nid teithiau pryderus i ysbytai pell pan nad yw gwasanaethau lleol ar gael neu'n wir, pan fo gwasanaethau lleol wedi'u gorlwytho. Byddai lleddfu'r pwysau ar ein meddygon teulu, gwrthdroi'r dirywiad mewn meddygfeydd lleol a hwyluso rhyddhau cleifion o ysbytai mewn modd effeithlon yn gymorth mawr i leddfu'r straen dwys ar ein ambiwlansys, ein hadrannau damweiniau ac achosion brys a'n staff. Mae'n amlwg fod y model gofal presennol yn gwbl anghynaladwy i gleifion a staff.

Rwy'n dal i bryderu ein bod yn gwleidyddoli gofal iechyd. Rwy'n annog fy nghyd-Aelodau, o bob plaid wleidyddol, i weithio gyda'i gilydd mewn ysbryd o gydweithrediad trawsbleidiol, yn hytrach na brwydro gelyniaethus. Felly, rwy'n gobeithio y bydd y Gweinidog yn rhoi sicrwydd, nid yn unig i ni yma yn y Siambr ond i bobl Cymru, y bydd yn ymrwymo i gydweithio'n drawsbleidiol i fynd i'r afael â'r argyfwng mynediad sy'n ein hwynebu a darparu'r gefnogaeth a'r diwygio credadwy y mae ein gwasanaeth iechyd ei angen. Diolch yn fawr iawn.

16:55

I'd like to thank my party and Darren Millar for tabling today's crucial debate. Long waiting times in accident and emergency departments are directly linked to worse patient outcomes. There are systemic failures in the management of our A&Es, and this is having a detrimental impact on the health of the people of Wales. [Interruption.] Yes, of course I'll take an intervention.

Hoffwn ddiolch i fy mhlaid a Darren Millar am gyflwyno'r ddadl hollbwysig hon heddiw. Mae amseroedd aros hir mewn adrannau damweiniau ac achosion brys wedi'u cysylltu'n uniongyrchol â chanlyniadau gwaeth i gleifion. Ceir methiannau systemig yn y ffordd caiff ein hadrannau damweiniau ac achosion brys eu rheoli, ac mae hyn yn cael effaith niweidiol ar iechyd pobl Cymru. [Torri ar draws.] Wrth gwrs, fe wnaf dderbyn ymyriad.

Do you recognise, though, that this is not a problem in the emergency departments? This is a whole-system approach, both for ensuring that primary care stays in primary care and that the whole hospital takes ownership of who should be in the hospital and who needs discharging.

A ydych chi'n cydnabod, serch hynny, nad problem adrannau argyfwng yw hon? Mae'n ddull system gyfan, er mwyn sicrhau bod gofal sylfaenol yn aros mewn gofal sylfaenol a bod yr ysbyty cyfan yn cymryd perchnogaeth ar bwy ddylai fod yn yr ysbyty a phwy sydd angen eu rhyddhau.

Yes, absolutely. I take your point, Jenny. Of course we have to look at this in the round; it is a holistic approach that's needed. Of course, beds are being blocked by those who could be released into the communities earlier and sooner than they are, and that is, of course, having that knock-on effect on our A&E departments. But what we're looking at today is the importance of data surrounding that. We need to know the numbers in order to solve the problem.

I must just put on record my thanks to the hard-working NHS staff who are working under sustained pressures. However, they are being failed, Minister, by poor political leadership from this Labour Government. The buck stops with you, Minister.

With a target set to admit, transfer or discharge 95 per cent of patients within four hours, let's drill down into the most recent data available, as it paints an extremely bleak picture. As my colleague Russell George has already outlined, a recent freedom of information request by the Royal College of Emergency Medicine has shown that nearly 40 per cent of patients in Wales waited longer than four hours in A&E departments. However, when those breach exclusions were included, as they are by default in other UK nations, the figure became 50 per cent. Minister, you and I both know that this means tens of thousands of people sat in waiting rooms across Wales facing lengthy delays just to be seen, let alone treated. And we know the actual picture is far worse again, with many of my constituents particularly waiting over 12 hours as the norm now.

It is clear this Government have been playing fast and loose with the truth, as waiting times in Labour-run Wales are already exceedingly high across the board, and new figures now suggest that Wales's A&E waiting times are, in fact, the worst in Britain. Minister, it's just another shameful statistic, and you must acknowledge your Government are failing the people of Wales. So, now do the right thing—take ownership of these mistakes, acknowledge the fault, and tell us what your Government is going to do about it. But I won't hold my breath, because this Labour Government will do anything and everything to avoid taking responsibility. Time and time again, we hear excuses and blame game from the Labour Ministers. 

If we take the Grange University Hospital in my region of South Wales East, where we have a situation that is dire in terms of A&E waiting times, an appalling number of ambulances waiting hours and hours outside, which is then exacerbated by the building itself not being fit for purpose, having never been even designed for the purpose of an A&E department. This, coupled with the consistently long waiting times, equates to real concern and scenes in the A&E that I don't want to witness again at first-hand. And this Welsh Government's routine failure to address this, alongside Aneurin Bevan University Health Board, is wholly unacceptable.

Wales deserves better than this. My constituents deserve better than this. Accurate data is absolutely essential, as I said earlier, in order for us to be able to address this properly. It's high time we started getting some accuracy, some apologies and some action from this Government. It is time we are honest about A&E waiting times and finally lay out a plan to rectify this. I hope to see the Minister do this in response to the debate, and I urge this Chamber to support our motion today. Diolch.

Yn hollol. Rwy'n derbyn eich pwynt, Jenny. Wrth gwrs mae'n rhaid inni edrych ar hyn yn ei gyfanrwydd; mae angen dull cyfannol. Wrth gwrs, mae gwelyau yn cael eu blocio gan y rhai a allai gael eu rhyddhau i'r cymunedau yn gynharach ac yn gynt, ac mae hynny'n cael effaith ganlyniadol ar ein hadrannau damweiniau ac achosion brys. Ond yr hyn rydym yn edrych arno heddiw yw pwysigrwydd data sy'n ymwneud â hynny. Mae angen inni wybod beth yw'r niferoedd er mwyn datrys y broblem.

Rhaid i mi gofnodi fy niolch i staff gweithgar y GIG sy'n gweithio dan bwysau parhaus. Fodd bynnag, maent yn cael cam, Weinidog, gan arweinyddiaeth wleidyddol wael gan y Llywodraeth Lafur hon. Mae'r cyfrifoldeb ar eich ysgwyddau chi, Weinidog.

Gyda tharged wedi'i osod i dderbyn, trosglwyddo neu ryddhau 95 y cant o gleifion o fewn pedair awr, gadewch inni edrych yn fanwl ar y data diweddaraf sydd ar gael, oherwydd mae'n paentio darlun llwm iawn. Fel y mae fy nghyd-Aelod Russell George eisoes wedi'i amlinellu, mae cais rhyddid gwybodaeth diweddar gan y Coleg Brenhinol Meddygaeth Frys wedi dangos bod bron i 40 y cant o gleifion yng Nghymru wedi aros mwy na phedair awr mewn adrannau damweiniau ac achosion brys. Fodd bynnag, pan gafodd yr achosion o dorri eithriadau eu cynnwys, fel sy'n digwydd yn ddiofyn yng ngwledydd eraill y DU, cododd y ffigur i 50 y cant. Weinidog, rydych chi a minnau'n gwybod bod hyn yn golygu bod degau o filoedd o bobl wedi eistedd mewn ystafelloedd aros ledled Cymru yn wynebu oedi hir i gael eu gweld, heb sôn am gael driniaeth. Ac rydym yn gwybod bod y darlun go iawn yn llawer gwaeth eto, gyda llawer o fy etholwyr yn aros am dros 12 awr fel y norm nawr.

Mae'n amlwg fod y Llywodraeth hon wedi bod yn chwarae gyda'r gwir, oherwydd mae amseroedd aros yng Nghymru o dan y Blaid Lafur eisoes yn eithriadol o uchel yn gyffredinol, ac mae ffigurau newydd yn awgrymu bellach mai amseroedd aros adrannau damweiniau ac achosion brys Cymru yw'r gwaethaf ym Mhrydain. Weinidog, mae hwn yn ystadegyn cywilyddus arall, ac mae'n rhaid ichi gydnabod bod eich Llywodraeth yn gwneud cam â phobl Cymru. Felly, gwnewch y peth iawn nawr—cymerwch berchnogaeth ar y camgymeriadau hyn, a chydnabod eich bod ar fai, a dywedwch wrthym beth mae eich Llywodraeth yn mynd i'w wneud am y peth. Ond nid wyf am ddal fy ngwynt, oherwydd bydd y Llywodraeth Lafur hon yn gwneud popeth yn ei gallu i osgoi cymryd cyfrifoldeb. Dro ar ôl tro, rydym yn clywed Gweinidogion Llafur yn gwneud esgusodion ac yn gweld bai ar eraill. 

Os edrychwn ar Ysbyty Athrofaol y Faenor yn fy rhanbarth yn Nwyrain De Cymru, lle mae gennym sefyllfa enbyd o ran amseroedd aros adrannau damweiniau ac achosion brys, nifer echrydus o ambiwlansys yn aros am oriau y tu allan, sydd wedyn yn cael ei waethygu gan y ffaith nad yw'r adeilad ei hun yn addas i'r diben, o ystyried na chafodd ei lunio at ddibenion adran ddamweiniau ac achosion brys. Mae hyn, ynghyd â'r amseroedd aros hir, yn creu pryder a golygfeydd real yn yr adran ddamweiniau ac achosion brys nad wyf eisiau eu gweld eto yn uniongyrchol. Ac mae methiant Llywodraeth Cymru, ochr yn ochr â Bwrdd Iechyd Prifysgol Aneurin Bevan, i fynd i'r afael â hyn dro ar ôl tro yn gwbl annerbyniol.

Mae Cymru'n haeddu gwell na hyn. Mae fy etholwyr yn haeddu gwell na hyn. Mae data cywir yn gwbl hanfodol, fel y dywedais yn gynharach, er mwyn inni allu mynd i'r afael â hyn yn iawn. Mae'n hen bryd inni ddechrau cael cywirdeb, ymddiheuriadau a gweithredu gan y Llywodraeth hon. Mae'n bryd inni fod yn onest am amseroedd aros adrannau damweiniau ac achosion brys a chreu cynllun i gywiro hyn o'r diwedd. Rwy'n gobeithio gweld y Gweinidog yn gwneud hyn mewn ymateb i'r ddadl, ac rwy'n annog y Siambr i gefnogi ein cynnig heddiw. Diolch.

17:00

A galwaf ar y Gweinidog Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol, Eluned Morgan. 

And I call on the Minister for Health and Social Services, Eluned Morgan. 

Diolch yn fawr, Dirprwy Lywydd. I'd like to start by thanking all of those people who work on the front line in our emergency departments. They are under incredible pressure all the year round, but they are under particular pressure at this time of year, and I would like to thank them all for their incredible contribution to our NHS in Wales. 

Now, following recent media coverage, I welcome the opportunity once again to clarify and confirm how clinical exceptions are applied in performance monitoring, and to refute absolutely the assertion that we, somehow or other, were gaming the system by excluding certain patients from our emergency department statistics, and, by implication, that the health boards were not following the guidance set by the Welsh Government. 

Diolch yn fawr, Ddirprwy Lywydd. Hoffwn ddechrau drwy ddiolch i bob un o'r bobl hynny sy'n gweithio ar y rheng flaen yn ein hadrannau achosion brys. Maent dan bwysau aruthrol drwy gydol y flwyddyn, ond maent dan bwysau arbennig yr adeg hon o’r flwyddyn, a hoffwn ddiolch i bob un ohonynt am eu cyfraniad anhygoel i’n GIG yng Nghymru.

Nawr, yn dilyn sylw diweddar yn y cyfryngau, rwy'n croesawu'r cyfle unwaith eto i egluro a chadarnhau sut mae eithriadau clinigol yn cael eu defnyddio wrth fonitro perfformiad, ac i wrthod yn llwyr yr honiad ein bod ni, rywsut neu’i gilydd, yn twyllo’r system drwy eithrio cleifion penodol o ystadegau ein hadrannau achosion brys, gan awgrymu nad oedd y byrddau iechyd yn dilyn y canllawiau a osodwyd gan Lywodraeth Cymru.

Will you take an intervention, Minister? 

A wnewch chi dderbyn ymyriad, Weinidog?

No. Media coverage suggested official statistics on emergency department performance for Wales have been under-reported since 2011, when a category called 'clinical exceptions' was introduced. That was incorrect and unverified, and I'd like to refer you to the chief statistician's statement that came out last week—the chief statistician, let me remind you, is independent of political interference—who said that

'Local Health Boards have provided assurance this week that the data they submit...is in line with the guidance on reporting clinical exceptions.

'Welsh Government...do not exclude clinical exceptions from the data'.

Now, some Members this afternoon have tried to shift the emphasis and change the goalposts from that fundamental untruth that was told last week. There has not and there has not ever been a lack of clarity on the part of the Welsh Government. 

So, what are clinical exceptions? Clinical exceptions refer to the occasions when emergency department clinicians have deemed that patients require an extended period of observation or treatment. Guidance was released in 2011 to ensure patients are not admitted to wards or assessment units, or released simply to hit targets. Now, before the guidance was developed, different health boards developed their own approaches to exempting patients, resulting in variation and inconsistent reporting. At the time, it was clinicians who asked policy makers to provide guidance to support better patient experience and avoid gaming of performance figures. 

So, what does the guidance say? It states clinical exceptions should be included in data reported by health boards, with an agreed process for how waiting times are calculated and considered in performance monitoring. Now, following the release of data gathered by the Royal College of Emergency Medicine, as a result of a freedom of information request, we sought immediate assurance from health boards that the data they submit is in line with guidance. It took us a few hours to receive these reassurances, and it was a shame that the media didn't wait for us to check before they ran an unverified story. Health boards have confirmed they are compliant with the guidance issued in 2011, and I'm pleased to note the independent—yes, note the word 'independent' there—Office for Statistics Regulation has welcomed the steps we've taken to provide assurance on the quality of the statistics. 

So, why have we got into this situation? [Interruption.] If you stop muttering behind, we might get somewhere—

Na wnaf. Awgrymodd sylw yn y cyfryngau fod yr ystadegau swyddogol ar berfformiad adrannau argyfwng Cymru wedi'u tanadrodd ers 2011, pan gyflwynwyd categori o'r enw 'eithriadau clinigol'. Roedd hynny’n anghywir a heb ei wirio, a hoffwn eich cyfeirio at ddatganiad y prif ystadegydd a gyhoeddwyd yr wythnos diwethaf—mae’r prif ystadegydd, gadewch i mi eich atgoffa, yn annibynnol ar ymyrraeth wleidyddol—a ddywedodd fod

'byrddau iechyd lleol wedi rhoi sicrwydd yr wythnos hon bod y data y maent yn eu cyflwyno…yn unol â’r canllawiau ar adrodd am eithriadau clinigol.

'Nid yw Llywodraeth Cymru…yn hepgor eithriadau clinigol o’r data'.

Nawr, mae rhai Aelodau y prynhawn yma wedi ceisio newid y pwyslais a symud y pyst gôl o'r anwiredd sylfaenol a ddywedwyd yr wythnos diwethaf. Nid oes, ac ni fu erioed, unrhyw ddiffyg eglurder ar ran Llywodraeth Cymru.

Felly, beth yw eithriadau clinigol? Mae eithriadau clinigol yn cyfeirio at yr adegau pan fo clinigwyr adrannau argyfwng wedi barnu bod angen cyfnod estynedig o arsylwi neu driniaeth ar gleifion. Cyhoeddwyd canllawiau yn 2011 i sicrhau nad yw cleifion yn cael eu derbyn i wardiau neu unedau asesu neu'n cael rhyddhau er mwyn cyrraedd targedau yn unig. Nawr, cyn i’r canllawiau gael eu datblygu, datblygodd gwahanol fyrddau iechyd eu dulliau eu hunain o eithrio cleifion, gan arwain at amrywio ac adroddiadau anghyson. Ar y pryd, clinigwyr a ofynnodd i lunwyr polisi ddarparu canllawiau i gefnogi gwell profiad i gleifion ac i osgoi aflunio ffigurau perfformiad.

Felly, beth mae'r canllawiau'n ei ddweud? Maent yn nodi y dylid cynnwys eithriadau clinigol mewn data a adroddir gan fyrddau iechyd, gyda phroses y cytunwyd arni ar gyfer sut y caiff amseroedd aros eu cyfrifo a’u hystyried wrth fonitro perfformiad. Nawr, yn dilyn cyhoeddi data a gasglwyd gan y Coleg Brenhinol Meddygaeth Frys, o ganlyniad i gais rhyddid gwybodaeth, fe wnaethom geisio sicrwydd ar unwaith gan y byrddau iechyd fod y data y maent yn ei gyflwyno yn gyson â'r canllawiau. Cymerodd ychydig oriau inni gael y sicrwydd hwnnw, ac mae'n drueni nad arhosodd y cyfryngau inni wirio cyn cyhoeddi stori heb ei gwirio. Mae'r byrddau iechyd wedi cadarnhau eu bod yn cydymffurfio â’r canllawiau a gyhoeddwyd yn 2011, ac rwy’n falch o nodi bod y Swyddfa Rheoleiddio Ystadegau, sy'n annibynnol—ie, nodwch y gair ‘annibynnol’—wedi croesawu’r camau rydym wedi’u cymryd i ddarparu sicrwydd ynghylch ansawdd yr ystadegau.

Felly, pam ein bod wedi cyrraedd y sefyllfa hon? [Torri ar draws.] Pe baech yn rhoi’r gorau i fwmian y tu ôl i mi, efallai y byddem yn cyrraedd rhywle—

17:05

Russell, I'd be grateful if you'd stop the commentary. The Member is entitled to intervene, and the Minister is entitled to say 'no'. I would be grateful for you ceasing the commentary whilst the Minister speaks, please. 

Russell, buaswn yn ddiolchgar pe gallech roi'r gorau i'r sylwebaeth. Mae gan yr Aelod hawl i ymyrryd, ac mae gan y Gweinidog hawl i ddweud 'na’. Buaswn yn ddiolchgar pe gallech roi'r gorau i'r sylwebaeth tra bo'r Gweinidog yn siarad, os gwelwch yn dda.

So, why did this situation come about? Well, it came about because the freedom of information request by the royal college was flawed. Their request to health boards stated incorrectly that NHS Wales currently only publishes performance figures after patients have been exempted and removed, and that's where the misunderstanding has stemmed from. We understand that health boards provided numbers of attendances over four and 12 hours based on when patients arrived and left the department, but the official method for calculating waiting times is different. It uses specific clock-stop times, in some cases reflecting when a clinician has determined a patient’s treatment has ended rather than when they’ve left the department. Now, I’m going to give you an example. A couple of years ago, I took my 89-year-old auntie to the emergency department as we were concerned about her heart. They did the initial tests, they determined what medicines she needed, and her treatment was effectively finished within a couple of hours. But they wanted to keep her in for observation for a longer period. The treatment was complete, the job was done, but they wanted a belt-and-braces approach, so they stopped the clock. The exemption to the target meant that there was no incentive to admit her unnecessarily, which could have resulted in a long and debilitating hospital stay, and they didn’t need to push her out of the door before they had complete confidence she would be okay without breaching the target.

Now, it appears that the college and the BBC misinterpreted the data on the basis of the college’s initial misunderstanding of our policy. And I note that the college has now changed its stance in an updated press statement, and I’m pleased to say that the Office for Statistics Regulation is investigating this matter more fully.

Felly, pam y digwyddodd hyn? Wel, fe ddigwyddodd am fod y cais rhyddid gwybodaeth gan y coleg brenhinol yn ddiffygiol. Roedd eu cais i'r byrddau iechyd yn nodi, yn anghywir, nad yw GIG Cymru ar hyn o bryd ond yn cyhoeddi ffigurau perfformiad ar ôl i gleifion gael eu heithrio a’u rhyddhau, a dyna a arweiniodd at y gamddealltwriaeth. Deallwn fod byrddau iechyd wedi darparu niferoedd derbyniadau dros bedair a 12 awr yn seiliedig ar ba bryd oedd cleifion yn cyrraedd ac yn gadael yr adran, ond mae’r dull swyddogol o gyfrifo amseroedd aros yn wahanol. Mae'n defnyddio amseroedd 'stopio'r cloc' penodol, gan adlewyrchu, mewn rhai achosion, pryd fydd clinigydd wedi penderfynu bod triniaeth claf wedi dod i ben yn hytrach na phan fyddant wedi gadael yr adran. Nawr, rwy'n mynd i roi enghraifft i chi. Ychydig flynyddoedd yn ôl, euthum â fy modryb 89 oed i’r adran argyfwng am ein bod yn pryderu am ei chalon. Fe wnaethant y profion cychwynnol, penderfynwyd pa feddyginiaethau oedd eu hangen arni, ac roedd ei thriniaeth wedi'i chwblhau, i bob pwrpas, o fewn awr neu ddwy. Ond roeddent eisiau ei chadw i mewn i gadw llygad arni am gyfnod hirach. Roedd y driniaeth wedi'i chwblhau, roedd y gwaith wedi'i wneud, ond roeddent yn awyddus i fod yn hollol siŵr, felly fe wnaethant stopio'r cloc. Roedd yr eithriad i’r targed yn golygu nad oedd unrhyw gymhelliad i’w derbyn heb fod angen, a allai fod wedi arwain at arhosiad hir a diflas yn yr ysbyty, ac nid oedd angen iddynt ei gwthio allan drwy’r drws cyn eu bod yn gwbl hyderus y byddai’n iawn heb dorri'r targed.

Nawr, ymddengys bod y coleg a’r BBC wedi camddehongli’r data ar sail camddealltwriaeth gychwynnol y coleg o’n polisi. A sylwaf fod y coleg bellach wedi newid ei safbwynt mewn datganiad diweddarach i'r wasg, ac rwy'n falch o ddweud bod y Swyddfa Rheoleiddio Ystadegau yn ymchwilio i'r mater mewn mwy o fanylder.

Nawr, gan droi at y polisi ei hun, i fod yn glir, nid ei bwrpas yw sicrhau gwelliannau i berfformiad yn erbyn y targed pedair awr. Mae'n datgan taw prif egwyddor y newid hwn yw sicrhau bod yn rhaid i benderfyniad clinigydd am ofal claf gael blaenoriaeth dros bopeth arall, hyd yn oed os bydd hwn yn cael effaith neu beidio ar y targed pedair awr. Felly, mae'n siomedig bod rhai Aelodau yn ymddangos fel eu bod nhw'n credu bod y polisi yma yn fwled arian i ddod dros yr heriau sy'n wynebu'r system gofal argyfwng a'i staff. 

O ran yr effaith ar gynllunio at y gaeaf, y cwbl y gallaf i ei ddweud eto yw rhoi sicrwydd i Aelodau nad yw'r polisi hwn yn eithrio unrhyw gleifion rhag unrhyw gyfrifiad o'r galw.

Nawr, i droi at y dyfodol, roeddem ni eisoes yn gwybod bod gan y coleg bryderon am y defnydd o eithriadau clinigol. Felly, roeddem ni eisoes wedi ymrwymo i ystyried eu pryderon yn ein gwaith polisi parhaus. Roeddwn i'n falch iawn o siarad yn y cyfarfod cyntaf o arweinwyr adrannau achosion brys rhai wythnosau yn ôl. Eu gwaith nhw nawr yw ein helpu i lunio datganiad ansawdd a fydd yn cael ei gyhoeddi erbyn diwedd mis Mawrth y flwyddyn nesaf, a'r nod fydd disgrifio gofal da mewn adrannau achosion brys. Pan mae mesurau, targedau neu ddata yn cael eu casglu a'u cyhoeddi sydd ddim yn ychwanegu gwerth neu sy'n achosi canlyniadau anfwriadol i gleifion a staff, mae angen ystyried newidiadau o ddifri, a dwi wedi ymrwymo yn llwyr i wneud hynny.

Now, turning to the policy itself, its purpose isn't to ensure improvements to performance against the four-hour target. It states that the main principle behind this change is to ensure that the decisions of a clinician about patient care should have priority over everything else, even if this has an impact, or not, on the four-hour target. So, it's disappointing that some Members appear to believe that this policy is a silver bullet to overcome the challenges facing the emergency care service and its staff.

In terms of the impact on planning for the winter, all I can say again is to provide reassurance to the Member that this policy doesn't exempt any patients from any survey of demand.

Now, to turn to the future, we already knew that the college had concerns about the clinical exemptions, so we already had committed to consider it, bearing in mind the concerns about our ongoing policy work. I was very pleased to speak in the first meeting of leaders of emergency departments a few weeks ago. It's their task now to help us to draw up a quality statement that will be published by the end of March next year, and the aim will be to describe good care in emergency care departments. Where measures, targets and data are gathered and published that don't add value, or that cause unintentional outcomes for patients and staff, we need to consider changes seriously, and I'm entirely committed to doing that.

We are up for a conversation about changing the guidance. It is in the hands of those people who are in those conferences to come up with that quality statement in terms of what that guidance should look like in future, and we will have that conversation when they come up with their suggestions. 

Rydym yn barod am sgwrs ynglŷn â newid y canllawiau. Mae llunio'r datganiad ansawdd ar sut y dylai'r canllawiau edrych yn y dyfodol yn nwylo'r bobl yn y cynadleddau hynny, a byddwn yn cael y sgwrs honno pan fyddant yn cynnig eu hawgrymiadau.

Mae'n rhaid inni gofio, os cawn ni hynny, a newid y system i gasglu ystadegau mewn ffordd sylfaenol wahanol i lefydd eraill, fyddwn ni ddim yn gallu cymharu ein perfformiad ni â rhannau eraill o'r Deyrnas Unedig. Nawr, dwi'n gwybod bod y gallu i gymharu yn egwyddor bwysig i rai Aelodau, ac mae fy swyddogion wrthi'n trafod mesurau a gwelliannau â chydweithredwyr eraill o'r Deyrnas Unedig. Y peth sylfaenol yma, a'r hyn sydd bwysicaf i bobl Cymru, yw ansawdd, effeithlonrwydd a phrydlondeb gofal cleifion, yr hyn roedd Jane Dodds yn sôn amdano.

We must remember, if we do change the system to gather statistics in a fundamentally different way to other places, we won't be able to compare our performance with other parts of the United Kingdom. Now, I know that the ability to compare is an important principle to some Members, and my officials are discussing measures and improvements with officials from other parts of the United Kingdom. The fundamental issue here, and what's most important to the people of Wales, is the quality, the effectiveness and the efficiency of patient care, and that's what Jane Dodds spoke about earlier.

17:10

Minister, you need to conclude now.

Weinidog, mae angen ichi ddirwyn i ben.

Mae ymroddiad, sgìl a gwaith caled y staff clinigol ac anghlinigol sy'n gweithio 24 awr y dydd, bob dydd mewn adrannau achosion brys, yn nodedig, ac maen nhw ar ddechrau tymor gaeaf fydd yn heriol dros ben. Maen nhw'n haeddu'r holl gymorth gallwn ni ei roi iddyn nhw, a dyw dadl am ystadegau, sy'n tynnu sylw oddi ar hyn, ddim yn helpu nhw na chleifion. Diolch yn fawr.

The dedication and skill and hard work of clinical and non-clinical staff who work 24 hours a day, every day in emergency care departments should be praised, and they're starting a very challenging winter period. They deserve all the support that we can give them, and a debate about the statistics, which draws attention away from their work, doesn't help them or patients. Thank you.

Galwaf ar Darren Millar i ymateb i'r ddadl.

I call on Darren Millar to reply to the debate.

Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer. I've listened very carefully to this debate and I have to say, I'm surprised by the Minister's response. You have repeatedly compared the emergency department performance between Wales and England, consistently saying that Wales is performing better than other parts of the UK. What we know from the freedom of information requests from the Royal College of Emergency Medicine is that there are many people who spend a lot longer than four hours in our emergency departments who are not included in the four-hour waiting-time figures. And I want to quote—. You said it's actually a time target for treatment; that's what you suggested in your response to us just now—it's a time target for treatment, not the length of time you spend in an emergency department. I want to read what StatsWales says that it is reporting, and I quote:

'Attendances where patients spend less than the target time in an emergency department.'

It doesn't say the time to treatment, it says:

'Attendances where patients spend less than the target time in an emergency department.'

Let me give you one example from my own health board, the Betsi Cadwaladr University Health Board. According to StatsWales, the attendances where patients spent less than the target time of four hours in an emergency department in May of this year was 6,819 patients. But according to the FOI request, which was returned, which included the breach exemptions in the four-hour time, the actual figure was 9,844 patients spending longer than four hours in an emergency department. And I've read the question that they asked and the response and, frankly, it still doesn't explain why those individuals are not included. Now, I accept fully the points that Jenny Rathbone and others have made about the fact that, sometimes, you've got to spend longer in an emergency department to decide whether you need to be admitted or not, to be monitored. I get that; I understand that. That's why hospitals have clinical assessment units, where they usually go after they've been in the emergency department, in order to wait to have a clinical assessment before deciding whether they're going to admit them into a hospital; that's what those assessment units are for. So, they shouldn't still be sat in an emergency department waiting for 12 hours or more in order to get test results and in order to be monitored.

So, you say you want—. I want to be able to compare across the UK because I want to know how well we're performing versus other parts of—. Because if they're doing something better, I want to learn from it—whether that's in England, Scotland or Northern Ireland. But what we do know is that none of those other nations exclude people in the same way that we do, right? So, if we're excluding people in this way and those other nations aren't—. And I can hear you saying, 'They do'. Do you want to intervene and explain to us? Because the reality—[Interruption.] I'm happy for you to explain, because we're waiting for this explanation, that's what this whole debate is about. Why don't you tell us?

Diolch, Ddirprwy Lywydd. Rwyf wedi gwrando’n ofalus iawn ar y ddadl hon, ac mae’n rhaid imi ddweud fy mod yn synnu at ymateb y Gweinidog. Rydych wedi cymharu perfformiad adrannau argyfwng rhwng Cymru a Lloegr dro ar ôl tro, gan ddweud yn gyson fod Cymru’n perfformio’n well na rhannau eraill o’r DU. Yr hyn a wyddom o’r ceisiadau rhyddid gwybodaeth gan y Coleg Brenhinol Meddygaeth Frys yw bod llawer o bobl sy’n treulio llawer mwy na phedair awr yn ein hadrannau argyfwng nad ydynt wedi’u cynnwys yn y ffigurau amseroedd aros pedair awr. A hoffwn ddyfynnu—. Fe ddywedoch chi mai amser targed ar gyfer triniaeth ydyw mewn gwirionedd; dyna'r hyn a awgrymwyd gennych yn eich ymateb i ni nawr—mae'n amser targed ar gyfer triniaeth, nid faint o amser y byddwch yn ei dreulio mewn adran argyfwng. Hoffwn ddarllen yr hyn y mae StatsCymru yn ei ddweud y mae’n ei adrodd, a dyfynnaf:

'Derbyniadau lle mae cleifion yn treulio llai o amser na’r amser targed yn yr adran achosion brys.'

Nid yw'n dweud yr amser cyn cael triniaeth, mae'n dweud:

'Derbyniadau lle mae cleifion yn treulio llai o amser na’r amser targed yn yr adran achosion brys.'

Gadewch imi roi un enghraifft i chi o fy mwrdd iechyd fy hun, Bwrdd Iechyd Prifysgol Betsi Cadwaladr. Yn ôl StatsCymru, nifer y derbyniadau lle treuliodd cleifion lai na'r amser targed o bedair awr mewn adran achosion brys ym mis Mai eleni oedd 6,819 o gleifion. Ond yn ôl y cais rhyddid gwybodaeth, a ddychwelwyd, a oedd yn cynnwys yr eithriadau i'r targed pedair awr, y ffigur gwirioneddol oedd 9,844 o gleifion yn treulio mwy na phedair awr mewn adran achosion brys. Ac rwyf wedi darllen y cwestiwn a ofynnwyd ganddynt a'r ymateb, ac a dweud y gwir, nid yw'n egluro o hyd pam nad yw'r unigolion hynny wedi eu cynnwys. Nawr, rwy'n derbyn yn llawn y pwyntiau y mae Jenny Rathbone ac eraill wedi'u gwneud am y ffaith bod yn rhaid i chi, weithiau, dreulio mwy o amser mewn adran achosion brys i benderfynu a oes angen ichi gael eich derbyn ai peidio, er mwyn cael eich monitro. Rwy'n derbyn hynny; rwy'n deall hynny. Dyna pam fod gan ysbytai unedau asesu clinigol, lle maent yn mynd fel arfer ar ôl iddynt fod yn yr adran argyfwng, er mwyn aros am asesiad clinigol cyn penderfynu a ydynt am eu derbyn i ysbyty; dyna bwrpas yr unedau asesu hynny. Felly, ni ddylent fod yn eistedd mewn adran argyfwng yn aros am 12 awr neu fwy er mwyn cael canlyniadau profion ac er mwyn cael eu monitro.

Felly, rydych yn dweud bod arnoch eisiau—. Hoffwn allu cymharu ar draws y DU gan yr hoffwn wybod pa mor dda rydym yn perfformio o gymharu â rhannau eraill o—. Oherwydd os ydynt yn gwneud rhywbeth yn well, hoffwn ddysgu o hynny—boed hynny yn Lloegr, yr Alban neu Ogledd Iwerddon. Ond yr hyn a wyddom yw nad oes unrhyw un o'r gwledydd eraill hynny'n eithrio pobl yn yr un ffordd ag y gwnawn ni, iawn? Felly, os ydym yn eithrio pobl fel hyn, ac nad yw'r cenhedloedd eraill yn gwneud hynny—. A gallaf eich clywed yn dweud, 'Maent yn gwneud hynny'. A hoffech ymyrryd ac esbonio i ni? Oherwydd y realiti—[Torri ar draws.] Rwy'n fodlon ichi esbonio, gan ein bod yn aros am yr esboniad, dyna holl hanfod y ddadl hon. Pam na ddywedwch chi wrthym?

Does it happen elsewhere in other nations? 'No, it doesn't', is the answer, and the Royal College of Emergency Medicine are fully aware of that, and that's why you criticising very intelligent people who are doctors doesn't look good, frankly, and yet, that's what you've been doing for the past couple of weeks since this information emerged in the public domain. This is not, Jane Dodds, about petty politics. This is about—[Interruption.] No, it is not. This is about wanting to find out what the scale of the problem is. Because, unless you know the scale of the problem, you cannot then come up with the solutions to be able to deal with the problem and turn that situation around, so that all people in Wales can have access to the timely care that they need in an accident or an emergency situation when they turn up at an emergency department in Wales. That's what they are for. [Interruption.] I'll happily take an intervention.

A yw'n digwydd mewn mannau eraill mewn gwledydd eraill? 'Na, nid yw'n digwydd', yw'r ateb, ac mae'r Coleg Brenhinol Meddygaeth Frys yn gwbl ymwybodol o hynny, a dyna pam nad yw beirniadu pobl ddeallus iawn sy'n feddygon yn edrych yn dda iawn, a dweud y gwir, ac eto, dyna rydych chi wedi bod yn ei wneud dros yr ychydig wythnosau diwethaf ers i'r wybodaeth hon ddod yn gyhoeddus. Nid oes a wnelo hyn, Jane Dodds, â gwleidyddiaeth bitw. Mae'n ymwneud â—[Torri ar draws.] Na, nid yw'n ymwneud â hynny. Mae'n ymwneud â dymuno darganfod beth yw maint y broblem. Oherwydd, oni bai eich bod yn gwybod beth yw maint y broblem, ni allwch ddod o hyd i'r atebion i allu mynd i'r afael â'r broblem a newid y sefyllfa honno, fel y gall pawb yng Nghymru gael mynediad at y gofal amserol sydd ei angen arnynt ar ôl damwain neu mewn sefyllfa o argyfwng pan fyddant yn cyrraedd adran argyfwng yng Nghymru. Dyna yw eu pwrpas. [Torri ar draws.] Rwy'n hapus i dderbyn ymyriad.

17:15

Thank you so much for doing that. I hope that this is the start of you working together across the political parties. I know that you moan and you kind of go—[Interruption.] This is so important to all of us and to the—[Interruption.]

Diolch yn fawr am wneud hynny. Gobeithio mai dyma ddechrau eich cydweithio ar draws y pleidiau gwleidyddol. Gwn eich bod yn cwyno a’ch bod yn—[Torri ar draws.] Mae hyn mor bwysig i bob un ohonom ac i’r—[Torri ar draws.]

I think it is better to let the Member give the intervention rather than commentary from all Members on the opposition benches.

Rwy'n credu ei bod yn well gadael i’r Aelod roi'r ymyriad yn hytrach na sylwebaeth gan bob Aelod ar feinciau’r gwrthbleidiau.

Diolch yn fawr iawn, Dirprwy Lywydd. I think that it's so important that we all work together, and I take your point, Darren. I take the point that you are looking to get the figures. But can I just appeal to you that you are willing to work with the Labour Minister in order to make sure that we get a better health service, rather than keep blaming each other? Diolch yn fawr iawn, Dirprwy Lywydd.

Diolch yn fawr iawn, Ddirprwy Lywydd. Credaf ei bod mor bwysig i bob un ohonom gydweithio, ac rwy'n derbyn eich pwynt, Darren. Rwy'n derbyn y pwynt eich bod yn awyddus i gael y ffigurau. Ond a gaf fi apelio arnoch i fod yn fodlon gweithio gyda’r Gweinidog Llafur er mwyn sicrhau ein bod yn cael gwell gwasanaeth iechyd, yn hytrach na pharhau i feio ein gilydd? Diolch yn fawr iawn, Ddirprwy Lywydd.

We've had examples this afternoon of us all working together to declare the Holodomor a genocide, for example. So, I don't think that it's fair to suggest that we don't work together on a cross-party basis where it's sensible to do so. And of course we're happy to work with the Welsh Government to try and improve the health service. We've been making suggestions on a daily and weekly basis in this Chamber for many years. But the point remains that, unless you have an understanding of the scale of the challenge, you're never going to get it right in terms of dealing with that challenge.

We have a situation at the moment where the figures that are published in terms of those four-hour waiting times in our emergency departments are misleading and inaccurate. That is not good enough. It’s not good enough to be understating the number of people in Betsi Cadwaladr in May by 44 per cent. Therefore, it is not fair of the Minister to constantly make these comparisons with England—and with Scotland and other places—which she has been doing, saying, ‘We are doing far better than you guys are over the border.' She’s said it repeatedly over the past two years, since she has been appointed, and yet she knows that we know, and that the Royal College of Emergency Medicine knows, that that is not the case. So, that is why we are calling upon you to scrap this policy altogether, make sure that the figures are transparent,  make sure that everybody understands what is reported, and then, of course, we’ll work together with you, Minister, with colleagues in Plaid, and even with the only Liberal Democrat in the village, in order that we can solve this problem once and for all for the benefit of patients across Wales. Thank you.     

Rydym wedi cael enghreifftiau y prynhawn yma ohonom yn gweithio gyda'n gilydd i ddatgan bod yr Holodomor yn weithred o hil-laddiad, er enghraifft. Felly, ni chredaf ei bod yn deg awgrymu nad ydym yn gweithio gyda'n gilydd ar sail drawsbleidiol lle mae'n synhwyrol gwneud hynny. Ac wrth gwrs, rydym yn barod i weithio gyda Llywodraeth Cymru i geisio gwella'r gwasanaeth iechyd. Rydym wedi bod yn gwneud awgrymiadau yn ddyddiol ac yn wythnosol yn y Siambr hon ers blynyddoedd lawer. Ond erys y pwynt, oni fydd gennych ddealltwriaeth o faint yr her, ni wnewch chi byth lwyddo i oresgyn yr her honno'n iawn.

Mae gennym sefyllfa ar hyn o bryd lle mae’r ffigurau a gyhoeddir ar yr amseroedd aros pedair awr yn ein hadrannau argyfwng yn gamarweiniol ac yn anghywir. Nid yw hynny'n ddigon da. Nid yw'n ddigon da tanddatgan nifer y bobl yn Betsi Cadwaladr ym mis Mai 44 y cant. Felly, nid yw'n deg i'r Gweinidog wneud cymariaethau cyson â Lloegr—a chyda'r Alban a lleoedd eraill—fel y mae wedi bod yn ei wneud, a dweud, 'Rydym yn gwneud yn llawer gwell na chi dros y ffin.' Mae hi wedi dweud hynny dro ar ôl tro dros y ddwy flynedd ddiwethaf, ers iddi gael ei phenodi, ac eto, mae'n gwybod ein bod  ni'n gwybod, a bod y Coleg Brenhinol Meddygaeth Frys yn gwybod, nad yw hynny'n wir. Felly, dyna pam ein bod yn galw arnoch i gael gwared ar y polisi hwn yn gyfan gwbl, sicrhau bod y ffigurau’n dryloyw, sicrhau bod pawb yn deall yr hyn a adroddir, ac yna, wrth gwrs, fe wnawn weithio gyda chi, Weinidog, gyda chyd-Aelodau ym Mhlaid Cymru, a hyd yn oed gyda’r unig Ddemocrat Rhyddfrydol yn y pentref, er mwyn inni allu datrys y broblem hon unwaith ac am byth er budd cleifion ledled Cymru. Diolch.

Y cwestiwn yw: a ddylid derbyn y cynnig heb ei ddiwygio? A oes unrhyw Aelod yn gwrthynebu? [Gwrthwynebiad.] Oes. Gohiriaf y bleidlais ar yr eitem hon tan y cyfnod pleidleisio.

The proposal is to agree the motion without amendment. Does any Member object? [Objection.] There are objections. I will therefore defer voting on this item until voting time.

Gohiriwyd y pleidleisio tan y cyfnod pleidleisio.

Voting deferred until voting time.

7. Dadl Plaid Cymru: Trafnidiaeth Cymru
7. Plaid Cymru Debate: Transport for Wales

Detholwyd y gwelliannau canlynol: gwelliant 1 yn enw Lesley Griffiths, a gwelliant 2 yn enw Darren Millar.

The following amendments have been selected: amendment 1 in the name of Lesley Griffiths, and amendment 2 in the name of Darren Millar.

Eitem 7 heddiw yw Dadl Plaid Cymru, Trafnidiaeth Cymru. Galwaf ar Delyth Jewell i wneud y cynnig.

Item 7 today is the Plaid Cymru debate on Transport for Wales. I call on Delyth Jewell to move the motion.

Cynnig NDM8389 Heledd Fychan

Cynnig bod y Senedd:

1. Yn nodi ei bod yn bum mlynedd ers i Trafnidiaeth Cymru gymryd yr awenau dros fasnachfraint rheilffyrdd Cymru gyfan gan Trenau Arriva Cymru.

2. Yn gresynu:

a) bod darpariaeth gwasanaeth trenau ledled Cymru yn parhau i fod yn annerbyniol o annibynadwy a drud, gyda dim ond 57 y cant o wasanaethau yn cyrraedd yn brydlon rhwng mis Ebrill a mis Mehefin 2023;

b) dim ond 29 y cant o deithiau a gaiff eu gwneud ar drenau newydd ar hyn o bryd, sydd ymhell islaw'r targed o 95 y cant a osodwyd gan Lywodraeth Cymru ar gyfer 2023; ac

c) Trafnidiaeth Cymru sydd â'r graddfeydd boddhad cwsmeriaid isaf o holl brif weithredwyr rheilffyrdd y DU.

3. Yn galw ar Lywodraeth Cymru i sicrhau bod Trafnidiaeth Cymru yn cyflawni'r ymrwymiadau a wnaed, a sicrhau gwelliannau o ran prydlondeb ac uwchraddio'r stoc, yn ogystal â chynllunio ar gyfer gwasanaethau digonol i gyd-fynd â digwyddiadau mawr yng Nghymru.

Motion NDM8389 Heledd Fychan

To propose that the Senedd:

1. Notes that it is five years since Transport for Wales took over the all-Wales rail franchise from Arriva Trains Wales.

2. Regrets that:

a) train service provision across Wales remains unacceptably unreliable and expensive, with only 57 per cent of services arriving on time between April and June 2023;

b) only 29 per cent of journeys are currently being undertaken on new trains, well below the 95 per cent target set by the Welsh Government for 2023; and

c) Transport for Wales has the lowest customer satisfaction ratings of all major UK rail operators.

3. Calls on the Welsh Government to ensure Transport for Wales delivers on the commitments made, and secure improvements in terms of punctuality and the upgrading of the stock, as well as planning for adequate services to coincide with major events in Wales.

Cynigiwyd y cynnig.

Motion moved.

Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd. Where are we headed with transport in Wales? In what direction are we travelling? We've called this debate because there remain so many questions about timetables running over, missed connections and progress cut short. So much of our transport policy is jammed, and there's a feeling that we could be heading off course.

So, let’s look at the facts: £125 million has been announced for Transport for Wales, and I welcome investment in our public transport. I would ask for more information about where that money has come from, to determine whether any money has been taken from bus services to pay for rail, because, at a time when 80 per cent of public transport users in Wales travel by bus, that service is also in dire need of support.

But, to return to trains, Transport for Wales was launched with a laudable vision of developing a sustainable and accessible public transport system. Anyone who remembers the dark days of Arriva will recall just how welcome that change was. Customers were promised that they would begin to see improved services from the outset. And yet, five years later, TfW consistently gains the lowest approval ratings of rail services in the UK, and stations in Wales have the highest service cancellation rates.

Now, we in Plaid Cymru have consistently advocated for our railways to be brought into public hands, so that the needs of passengers are put before profit. That is why we need to fix these problems that are so stubbornly there. Too often the new organisation has been seen as Arriva Trains Wales with a new lick of paint on the old trains.

Now, to any Members from the Conservative side of the Chamber who might say that this means that public ownership is not beneficial, I’d remind them of how many times their own Government in England has had to take train lines back into public ownership because of the failure of private firms to deliver for passengers. Privatisation of the railways has failed. That is beyond question. And that's exactly why we need to fix things. I want these trains to do well; I'm rooting for them. I get the train to the Senedd every week and I see myself too many of these issues arising too often. Customer satisfaction levels are low. There are often complaints about delayed trains, inadequate seating, unreliable schedules and a general lack of comfort on the services.

Diolch, Ddirprwy Lywydd. I ble rydym yn mynd gyda thrafnidiaeth yng Nghymru? I ba gyfeiriad rydym yn teithio? Rydym wedi galw'r ddadl hon am fod cymaint o gwestiynau o hyd am amserlenni'n gor-redeg, cysylltiadau'n cael eu methu a chynnydd yn cael ei rwystro. Mae cymaint o'n polisi trafnidiaeth ar chwâl, a cheir teimlad y gallem fod yn gwyro oddi ar y llwybr.

Felly, gadewch inni edrych ar y ffeithiau: mae £125 miliwn wedi'i gyhoeddi ar gyfer Trafnidiaeth Cymru, ac rwy'n croesawu buddsoddiad yn ein trafnidiaeth gyhoeddus. Carwn gofyn am ragor o wybodaeth ynglŷn ag o ble y daeth yr arian hwnnw, i benderfynu a oes unrhyw arian wedi’i gymryd oddi ar wasanaethau bysiau i dalu am y rheilffyrdd, oherwydd, ar adeg pan fo 80 y cant o ddefnyddwyr trafnidiaeth gyhoeddus yng Nghymru yn teithio ar fysiau, mae gwir angen cymorth ar y gwasanaeth hwnnw hefyd.

Ond gan ddychwelyd at drenau, lansiwyd Trafnidiaeth Cymru gyda gweledigaeth ganmoladwy ynghylch datblygu system drafnidiaeth gyhoeddus gynaliadwy a hygyrch. Bydd unrhyw un sy'n cofio dyddiau tywyll Arriva yn cofio pa mor galonogol oedd y newid hwnnw. Rhoddwyd addewid i gwsmeriaid y byddent yn dechrau gweld gwell gwasanaethau o'r cychwyn cyntaf. Ac eto, bum mlynedd yn ddiweddarach, Trafnidiaeth Cymru sydd â'r lefelau boddhad cwsmeriaid isaf o blith holl wasanaethau rheilffordd y DU yn gyson, a chan orsafoedd yng Nghymru y mae'r cyfraddau uchaf o ganslo gwasanaethau.

Nawr, rydym ni ym Mhlaid Cymru wedi dadlau'n gyson o blaid dod â'n rheilffyrdd i berchnogaeth gyhoeddus, fel bod anghenion teithwyr yn cael eu rhoi o flaen elw. Dyna pam fod angen inni ddatrys y problemau hyn sydd mor ystyfnig. Yn rhy aml, mae'r sefydliad newydd wedi cael ei weld fel Trenau Arriva Cymru gyda chôt newydd o baent ar yr hen drenau.

Nawr, i unrhyw Aelodau ar ochr Geidwadol y Siambr a allai ddweud bod hyn yn golygu nad yw perchnogaeth gyhoeddus yn fuddiol, buaswn yn eu hatgoffa sawl gwaith y mae eu Llywodraeth eu hunain yn Lloegr wedi gorfod dod â rheilffyrdd yn ôl i berchnogaeth gyhoeddus oherwydd methiant cwmnïau preifat i gyflawni ar ran teithwyr. Mae preifateiddio'r rheilffyrdd wedi methu. Mae hynny y tu hwnt i amheuaeth. A dyna'n union pam fod angen inni ddatrys pethau. Rwyf am i'r trenau hyn wneud yn dda; rwy'n ysu am eu gweld yn llwyddo. Rwy’n dal y trên i’r Senedd bob wythnos ac rwy’n gweld drosof fy hun fod gormod o’r pethau hyn yn codi’n rhy aml. Mae lefelau boddhad cwsmeriaid yn isel. Yn aml, ceir cwynion am drenau wedi'u gohirio, seddi annigonol, amserlenni annibynadwy a diffyg cyfforddusrwydd yn gyffredinol ar y gwasanaethau.

17:20

Daeth y Llywydd i’r Gadair.

The Llywydd took the Chair.

Now, I realise and I concede that a lot of the disruption to services at present is down to, in the south-east at least, preparing tracks for the metro and bringing in new fleets. I recognise that this will inevitably have an effect and perhaps more needs to be done to communicate that to passengers. But we cannot get away from the fact that disrupted services have real-life consequences. People can lose their jobs if they're not in work on time, or if they can't get to work because their line isn't running. If more passengers in Wales are to be encouraged to travel more sustainably—and we have to do that—more needs to be done to tackle the reliability of the services that we receive.

Now, I would say at this point, Llywydd, that this is not meant as a criticism of dedicated TfW staff, be they guards on the trains, drivers, engineers or people in back offices. I know how passionate these workers are about what they do, and the patience that is shown by their social media team when responding to messages on Twitter that can be blunt and downright rude at times, that's commendable. I know that all of them must find this terribly frustrating as well. Now, new trains that were promised have not materialised. There was a pledge that new trains would make up 95 per cent of train stocks by 2023; I'm afraid that target has been roundly missed. Only 29 per cent of services are being operated with new trains. And when the Minister responds to this, I'd welcome finding out how long passengers will have to wait for adequate trains.

I come into work from Abercynon station, but, sometimes, if the line isn't running, I catch trains from Ystrad Mynach instead. Now, Ystrad Mynach is on the Rhymney line and they have beautiful, immaculate trains, with plenty of space. They're well lit, they're modern; it is a complete contrast to the creaking, crowded, often leaky trains that we get on the Merthyr and Aberdare lines. It's a real tale of two train lines. And yes, that does give me hope that, when the new services roll out, they will be welcomed. I do welcome the new fleet on the Rhymney line. But, for now, too many passengers are being subjected to loud, slow and frankly, unsightly and uncomfortable trains. And that's if they even turn up on time or at all. People are subjected to delays and overcrowding, a lack of facilities, and sometimes safety risks with crowding.

Now, the blame for all these problems cannot be laid squarely at the door of TfW or the Welsh Government. Westminster also has a blame here, because Westminster sets out our direction of travel. Too many decisions that determine the amount of money we have to invest in trains and transport more generally in Wales are made in another country. And for too long, Westminster has ignored the needs and aspirations of the Welsh people. We have seen successive Governments invest billions of pounds in London and the south-east of England while leaving our nation to suffer with crumbling infrastructure and underfunded public services. The proposed high-speed rail project HS2 is just one example of how Westminster prioritises England at the expense of Wales.

I fear that the outlook of how Wales will fare from this under a Labour-led UK Government is somewhat cloudy. While the First Minister here has supported calls for HS2 to be reclassified as 'England only', Keir Starmer has said that he is not going to make a commitment like that this side of the election. Now, this lack of commitment for our nation is robbing Wales of billions of pounds' worth of funding, regardless of which party is in power. Sorting out our struggling transport system should be a priority. I would call on Labour Members here to challenge Keir Starmer on this, to work behind the scenes to change their minds. But we will never face the right direction until these decisions are made in Wales. I agree with Professor Mark Barry that the decision made by Labour in Wales not to push for the devolution of all powers over rail is perhaps the greatest mistake since devolution began, because for as long as another country sets the limits on our transport policy Wales will be at a standstill.

Nawr, rwy’n sylweddoli ac yn cyfaddef bod llawer o’r tarfu ar wasanaethau ar hyn o bryd oherwydd, yn y de-ddwyrain o leiaf, y gwaith o baratoi traciau ar gyfer y metro a chyflwyno fflydoedd newydd. Rwy’n cydnabod y bydd hyn yn anochel yn cael effaith, ac efallai bod angen gwneud mwy i gyfleu hynny i deithwyr. Ond ni allwn ddianc rhag y ffaith bod tarfu ar wasanaethau yn arwain at ganlyniadau i fywydau go iawn. Gall pobl golli eu swyddi os nad ydynt yn cyrraedd y gwaith ar amser, neu os na allant gyrraedd y gwaith am nad yw eu trên yn rhedeg. Os ydym am annog mwy o deithwyr yng Nghymru i deithio’n fwy cynaliadwy—ac mae'n rhaid inni wneud hynny—mae angen gwneud mwy i fynd i’r afael â pha mor ddibynadwy yw'r gwasanaethau a gawn.

Nawr, rwyf am ddweud ar y pwynt hwn, Lywydd, nad beirniadaeth o staff ymroddedig Trafnidiaeth Cymru yw hyn, boed yn gardiaid ar y trenau, yn yrwyr, yn beirianwyr neu bobl yn y swyddfa gefn. Gwn pa mor angerddol yw’r gweithwyr hyn am yr hyn wnânt, a’r amynedd a ddangosir gan eu tîm cyfryngau cymdeithasol wrth ymateb i negeseuon ar Twitter sy’n gallu bod yn ddi-flewyn-ar-dafod ac yn hollol anghwrtais ar adegau, mae hynny i’w ganmol. Gwn fod yn rhaid bod hyn yn ofnadwy o rwystredig i bob un ohonyn nhw hefyd. Nawr, nid yw'r trenau newydd a addawyd wedi eu darparu. Cafwyd addewid y byddai 95 y cant o drenau yn drenau newydd erbyn 2023; mae arnaf ofn fod y targed hwnnw wedi'i fethu'n llwyr. Dim ond 29 y cant o wasanaethau sy'n cael eu gweithredu gyda threnau newydd. A phan fydd y Gweinidog yn ymateb i hyn, buaswn yn falch o glywed pa mor hir y bydd yn rhaid i deithwyr aros am drenau digonol.

Rwy'n dod i'r gwaith o orsaf Abercynon, ond weithiau, os nad yw'r trên hwnnw'n rhedeg, rwy'n dal trenau o Ystrad Mynach yn lle hynny. Nawr, mae Ystrad Mynach ar reilffordd Rhymni ac mae ganddynt drenau hardd, hyfryd, gyda digon o le. Maent wedi'u goleuo'n dda, maent yn fodern; mae hynny mewn gwrthgyferbyniad llwyr i’r hen drenau gorlawn sy’n aml yn gollwng a gawn ar reilffyrdd Merthyr Tudful ac Aberdâr. Mae'n stori am ddwy reilffordd wahanol. Ac ydy, mae hynny'n rhoi gobaith i mi, pan fydd y gwasanaethau newydd yn cael eu cyflwyno, y byddant yn cael eu croesawu. Rwy'n croesawu'r fflyd newydd ar reilffordd Rhymni. Ond am y tro, mae gormod o deithwyr yn gorfod dioddef trenau swnllyd, araf, hyll ac anghyfforddus. A hynny os ydynt yn cyrraedd ar amser, neu o gwbl. Mae pobl yn gorfod dioddef oedi a gorlenwi, diffyg cyfleusterau, ac weithiau, risgiau diogelwch gyda gorlenwi.

Nawr, ni ellir rhoi'r bai am yr holl broblemau hyn ar Trafnidiaeth Cymru na Llywodraeth Cymru. Mae bai ar San Steffan yma hefyd, gan mai San Steffan sy'n gosod ein cyfeiriad teithio. Mae gormod o benderfyniadau sy’n pennu faint o arian sydd gennym i’w fuddsoddi mewn trenau a thrafnidiaeth yn fwy cyffredinol yng Nghymru yn cael eu gwneud mewn gwlad arall. Ac ers gormod o amser, mae San Steffan wedi anwybyddu anghenion a dyheadau pobl Cymru. Rydym wedi gweld Llywodraethau olynol yn buddsoddi biliynau o bunnoedd yn Llundain a de-ddwyrain Lloegr, gan adael ein gwlad i ddioddef gyda seilwaith sy’n dadfeilio a gwasanaethau cyhoeddus sy’n cael eu tanariannu. Mae prosiect rheilffordd gyflym arfaethedig HS2 yn un enghraifft o’r ffordd y mae San Steffan yn blaenoriaethu Lloegr ar draul Cymru.

Mae arnaf ofn fod y rhagolygon o ran sut y bydd Cymru yn gwneud yn y cyswllt hwn o dan Lywodraeth y DU dan arweiniad Llafur braidd yn niwlog. Tra bo'r Prif Weinidog yma wedi cefnogi galwadau i ailddosbarthu HS2 fel prosiect ‘Lloegr yn unig’, mae Keir Starmer wedi dweud nad yw’n mynd i wneud ymrwymiad o'r fath cyn yr etholiad. Nawr, mae’r diffyg ymrwymiad hwn i'n cenedl yn amddifadu Cymru o biliynau o bunnoedd o gyllid, ni waeth pa blaid sydd mewn grym. Dylai rhoi trefn ar ein system drafnidiaeth adfydus fod yn flaenoriaeth. Hoffwn alw ar yr Aelodau Llafur yma i herio Keir Starmer ar hyn, i weithio y tu ôl i’r llenni i newid eu meddyliau. Ond ni fyddwn byth yn wynebu’r cyfeiriad cywir hyd nes y gwneir y penderfyniadau hyn yng Nghymru. Rwy'n cytuno â’r Athro Mark Barry mai’r penderfyniad a wnaed gan Lafur yng Nghymru i beidio â gwthio am ddatganoli’r holl bwerau dros reilffyrdd yw’r camgymeriad mwyaf o bosibl ers dechrau datganoli, oherwydd cyhyd ag y bydd gwlad arall yn gosod y terfynau ar ein polisi trafnidiaeth, bydd Cymru yn aros yn ei hunfan.

Yes. I'll happily give way.

Gwnaf. Rwy'n fwy na pharod i ildio.

This is a point that came up in a broadcast that I was doing with our new colleagues the other night. For you, the issue is, and I understand, the devolution of it. For me, the issue is, 'Devolve us the money to go with it.' Wouldn't you agree that the fundamental thing for a Labour Government or any Government up the other end of the M4 has got to be, 'Give us the quantum of money, and then we can get on with it'? Now, devolution might be part of that—. Sorry, I'm going on. Devolution might be part of that, but, actually, it's the money we want.

Mae hwn yn bwynt a gododd mewn darllediad a wneuthum gyda'n cydweithwyr newydd y noson o'r blaen. I chi, mae'n fater o'i ddatganoli, ac rwy'n deall. I mi, mae'n fater o, 'Datganolwch yr arian inni wneud hyn.' Oni fyddech yn cytuno mai’r peth hollbwysig i Lywodraeth Lafur neu unrhyw Lywodraeth ar ben arall yr M4 yw, ‘Rhowch y swm o arian i ni, ac yna gallwn fwrw ymlaen â'r gwaith’? Nawr, efallai fod datganoli yn rhan o hynny—. Mae'n ddrwg gennyf, rwy'n bwrw drwyddi. Gallai datganoli fod yn rhan o hynny, ond mewn gwirionedd, yr arian sydd ei eisiau.

17:25

I'd say that we need both. Certainly, there's nothing I would disagree with in terms of that we need the money. I believe firmly that we need those powers in Wales, because we shouldn't be at the hap and circumstance of whatever Government happens to be in power in Westminster that could, as we've seen all too often, try to claw back powers or to change funding arrangements. I agree with you totally, we need that money, but we need the powers in a more sustainable way. So, thank you for that intervention, Huw.

I would repeat that we will stay at a standstill metaphorically, and all too often literally as well, until all of that is sorted. It's not too late for us to act and demand, yes, that money, demand these powers to take those steps in a new direction.

Rwy'n dweud bod angen y ddau arnom. Yn sicr, nid oes unrhyw beth y buaswn yn anghytuno ag ef o ran bod angen yr arian arnom. Credaf yn gryf fod angen y pwerau hynny arnom yng Nghymru, gan na ddylem fod yn ddarostyngedig i fympwyon pa Lywodraeth bynnag sy’n digwydd bod mewn grym yn San Steffan a allai, fel y gwelsom yn rhy aml, geisio adfachu pwerau neu newid trefniadau ariannu. Cytunaf yn llwyr â chi, mae angen yr arian hwnnw arnom, ond mae angen y pwerau arnom mewn ffordd fwy cynaliadwy. Felly, diolch am eich ymyriad, Huw.

Hoffwn ailadrodd y byddwn yn aros yn ein hunfan, yn drosiadol, ac yn rhy aml o lawer yn llythrennol hefyd, hyd nes i hynny oll gael ei ddatrys. Nid yw’n rhy hwyr inni weithredu a mynnu'r arian hwnnw, mynnu’r pwerau hyn i gamu i gyfeiriad newydd.

Ac rwy'n gobeithio bydd ein dadl heno yn helpu i osod ffordd newydd ymlaen. Rwyf i'n edrych ymlaen at glywed beth sydd gan eraill i'w ddweud yn y ddadl.

And I hope that our debate this evening will help to set a new route forward. I look forward to hearing what others have to say in this debate.

Rwyf wedi dethol y ddau welliant i'r cynnig, a dwi'n galw ar y Dirprwy Weinidog i gynnig yn ffurfiol gwelliant 1.

I have selected the two amendments to the motion, and I call on the Deputy Minister for Climate Change to move formally amendment 1.

Gwelliant 1—Lesley Griffiths

Dileu pwyntiau 2 a 3 a rhoi yn eu lle:

Yn cydnabod effaith perfformiad rheilffyrdd gwael diweddar ar deithwyr, gyda heriau'n cynnwys trenau sy'n heneiddio ac yn annibynadwy, gweithredu diwydiannol mewn cwmnïau a reolir gan Lywodraeth y DU, a'r pwysau ariannol parhaus a achosir gan COVID a chwyddiant.

Yn croesawu gwaith Trafnidiaeth Cymru i sefydlogi perfformiad trenau ers mis Awst.

Yn croesawu'r buddsoddiad o £1.1 biliwn yn llinellau craidd y Cymoedd a'r buddsoddiad o £900 miliwn mewn cerbydau rheilffyrdd ar draws rhwydwaith Cymru a'r gororau.

Yn edrych ymlaen at y newid sylweddol i deithwyr wrth i gerbydau rheilffyrdd newydd gael eu cyflwyno ar gyfer 95 y cant o deithiau erbyn 2024, yn unol â'r ymrwymiad yn y Rhaglen Lywodraethu.

Amendment 1—Lesley Griffiths

Delete points 2 and 3 and replace with:

Acknowledges the impact on passengers of recent poor rail performance, with challenges including ageing and unreliable trains, industrial action in UK Government controlled companies, and the ongoing financial pressures caused by COVID and inflation.

Welcomes the stabilisation of train performance delivered by Transport for Wales since August.

Welcomes the £1.1 billion investment in the core Valley lines and the £900 million investment in rolling stock across the Wales and borders network.

Looks forward to the step change for passengers as new rolling stock is introduced for 95 per cent of journeys by 2024, in line with the Programme for Government commitment.

Cynigiwyd gwelliant 1.

Amendment 1 moved.

Yn ffurfiol.

Formally.

Diolch. Natasha Asghar nawr i gyflwyno gwelliant 2. Natasha Asghar.

Thank you very much. Natasha Asghar now to move amendment 2. Natasha Asghar.

Gwelliant 2—Darren Millar

Ychwanegu pwynt newydd ar ddiwedd y cynnig:

Yn galw ar Lywodraeth Cymru i gyhoeddi'r achos busnes gan Trafnidiaeth Cymru i gyfiawnhau'r £125 miliwn o gyllid ychwanegol sy'n cael ei ddarparu i'r cwmni yn y flwyddyn ariannol bresennol. 

Amendment 2—Darren Millar

Add as new point at end of motion:

Calls on the Welsh Government to publish the business case from Transport for Wales to justify the £125 million of additional funding being provided to the company in the current financial year. 

Cynigiwyd gwelliant 2.

Amendment 2 moved.

Thank you so much, Presiding Officer. Firstly, I'd like to begin by reiterating what Delyth Jewell said, which is giving full credit to all of the front-line staff who work at TfW. They do an incredible job, and perhaps don't get credit for what they do. I would like to also bring my point to the table now, which is that Transport for Wales has been letting commuters down in all four corners of the country for far too long, and, despite Labour Ministers throwing nearly £1 billion at TfW, we have yet to see any real improvements. Trains rarely turn up on time, if at all, and, when they do, they're usually packed to the rafters with passengers forced to stand in any available space, especially when big events are taking place. I'm sure you've all seen on social media the images that I'm referring to—

Diolch yn fawr, Lywydd. Yn gyntaf, hoffwn ddechrau drwy ailadrodd yr hyn a ddywedodd Delyth Jewell, sef rhoi clod llawn i’r holl staff rheng flaen sy’n gweithio yn Trafnidiaeth Cymru. Maent yn gwneud gwaith anhygoel, ac efallai nad ydynt yn cael clod am yr hyn a wnânt. Hoffwn wneud fy mhwynt hefyd fod Trafnidiaeth Cymru wedi bod yn gwneud cam â chymudwyr ym mhob cwr o’r wlad ers llawer gormod o amser, ac er bod Gweinidogion Llafur wedi taflu bron i £1 biliwn at Trafnidiaeth Cymru, rydym eto i weld unrhyw welliannau gwirioneddol. Anaml y bydd trenau'n cyrraedd ar amser, os o gwbl, a phan fyddant yn gwneud hynny, maent fel arfer yn llawn dop, gyda theithwyr yn cael eu gorfodi i sefyll mewn unrhyw ofod sydd ar gael, yn enwedig pan fydd digwyddiadau mawr yn cael eu cynnal. Rwy'n siŵr fod pob un ohonoch wedi gweld y lluniau rwy'n cyfeirio atynt ar y cyfryngau cymdeithasol—

Will you take an intervention?

A wnewch chi dderbyn ymyriad?

You just said that:

'Trains rarely turn up on time, if at all.'

Is that really true?

Rydych newydd ddweud:

'Anaml y bydd trenau'n cyrraedd ar amser, os o gwbl.'

A yw hynny'n wir mewn gwirionedd?

If you want to come into my constituency, if you speak to some of the residents—

Os hoffech ddod i fy etholaeth, os siaradwch â rhai o’r trigolion—

—who have to use the Treherbert line, which has been in works for a very, very long line, they will—

—sy'n gorfod defnyddio rheilffordd Treherbert, sydd wedi cael gwaith wedi'i wneud arni ers amser hir iawn, byddant—

—be able to reassure you that has been the case. That has been the case, and a lot of money has been spent on bus replacement services because they just aren't showing up on time for them to be able to come and, as Delyth Jewell mentioned, to get to work to earn an honest living.

Now, as I mentioned, reliability of train services is a big issue here in Wales, with the latest data showing just 68 per cent of trains arrive within three minutes of their planned arrival time on Wales and border services. Delays and cancellations are becoming more frequent, with the number of trains delayed between one to five minutes jumping from 9.8 per cent in 2018-19 to 14.7 per cent in 2022-23. Because of this shocking service, Transport for Wales has paid out nearly £1 million in compensation in 2022 alone.

It's not just service reliability where Transport for Wales is failing. Accessibility is a huge problem, with just 18 out of Wales's 223 train stations deemed to be fully navigable, meaning they have ramps, lift access, accessible ticket machines and wheelchair access toilets. Concerningly, seven train stations in Wales have no disabled access whatsoever. Now, that's something that really does have to change.

Taking all that into account, and, believe me, there are more examples, is it any wonder why Transport for Wales has the lowest customer satisfaction rating out of all of the rail operators in the United Kingdom? We were told that, by 2023, some 95 per cent of services in Wales would be on new trains, with an £800 million investment helping to achieve this milestone, yet we found out recently, as things stand, the total stands at 29 per cent, which is nowhere near the target. This is just another empty promise from the Labour Government-owned Transport for Wales. To put it bluntly, Transport for Wales is a failing organisation, as things stand, with passengers ultimately paying the price.

But, fear not, because Labour Ministers have done what they do best—throw money aimlessly at the problem and hope it sorts itself out; £125 million has been pumped into Transport for Wales at a time when budgets across the board are being slashed. As I said earlier in my spokespersons' questions, this whole situation is giving me a really bad case of déjà vu. Is TfW becoming the new Cardiff Airport, swallowing up taxpayers' cash whilst continuing to fail to perform successfully? In June this year, the Welsh Government cut TfW's funding and now, only months later, they're providing it with another £125 million. This smacks of something gone horribly wrong at TfW, and Labour Ministers are stepping in to save the day with their cheque book in hand. We really do need to see a business case to justify the extra funding, and it should be made public so that people across the country can see where their money is being spent.

It appears as though trains are being given some sort of special treatment, with buses being neglected as usual, despite the fact that three quarters of public transport journeys take place on buses rather than trains. Between 20 and 25 per cent of bus services could be cut next year, which is genuinely causing concern within our communities and this is across the board, so it’s really disappointing to see no financial support being pumped into this vital industry. At the moment, Transport for Wales is seriously falling short of the mark when it comes to providing a quality service, but it doesn’t have to be that way. We need to see the Welsh Government reassess their priorities and get a grip on Transport for Wales’s escalating problems once and for all. Thank you.

—yn cadarnhau i chi fod hynny'n wir. Mae hynny wedi bod yn wir, ac mae llawer o arian wedi’i wario ar wasanaethau bysiau yn lle trenau gan nad ydynt yn cyrraedd mewn pryd iddynt allu dod, ac fel y soniodd Delyth Jewell, i gyrraedd y gwaith i ennill bywoliaeth gonest.

Nawr, fel y soniais, mae dibynadwyedd gwasanaethau trên yn broblem fawr yma yng Nghymru, gyda'r data diweddaraf yn dangos mai dim ond 68 y cant o drenau sy'n cyrraedd o fewn tri munud i'w hamser cyrraedd cynlluniedig ar wasanaethau Cymru a'r gororau. Mae oedi a chanslo'n digwydd yn amlach, gyda nifer y trenau sydd rhwng un a phum munud yn hwyr yn cynyddu o 9.8 y cant yn 2018-19 i 14.7 y cant yn 2022-23. Oherwydd y gwasanaeth ofnadwy hwn, mae Trafnidiaeth Cymru wedi talu bron i £1 filiwn mewn iawndal yn 2022 yn unig.

Nid o ran dibynadwyedd gwasanaethau yn unig y mae Trafnidiaeth Cymru yn methu. Mae hygyrchedd yn broblem enfawr, gyda dim ond 18 o'r 223 o orsafoedd trên yng Nghymru yn cael eu hystyried yn rhai cwbl hygyrch, sy'n golygu bod ganddynt rampiau, mynediad at lifftiau, peiriannau tocynnau hygyrch a thoiledau hygyrch i gadeiriau olwyn. Mae'n destun pryder nad oes gan saith gorsaf drenau yng Nghymru unrhyw fynediad i bobl anabl o gwbl. Nawr, mae hynny'n rhywbeth y mae'n rhaid iddo newid.

O ystyried hynny oll, a chredwch fi, ceir mwy o enghreifftiau, a yw'n syndod pam mai Trafnidiaeth Cymru sydd â'r sgôr boddhad cwsmeriaid isaf o blith holl weithredwyr rheilffyrdd y Deyrnas Unedig? Dywedwyd wrthym, erbyn 2023, y byddai oddeutu 95 y cant o wasanaethau yng Nghymru ar drenau newydd, gyda buddsoddiad o £800 miliwn yn helpu i gyflawni’r garreg filltir hon, ac eto, cawsom wybod yn ddiweddar, fel y saif pethau, mai’r cyfanswm yw 29 y cant, nad yw'n agos at y targed. Addewid gwag arall yw hwn gan Trafnidiaeth Cymru, sy’n eiddo i’r Llywodraeth Lafur. A dweud y gwir yn blaen, mae Trafnidiaeth Cymru yn sefydliad sy’n methu, fel y saif pethau, gyda theithwyr yn talu’r pris yn y pen draw.

Ond peidiwch ag ofni, gan fod Gweinidogion Llafur wedi gwneud yr hyn a wnânt orau—taflu arian yn ddiamcan at y broblem a gobeithio y bydd yn datrys ei hun; mae £125 miliwn wedi’i bwmpio i mewn i Trafnidiaeth Cymru ar adeg pan fo cyllidebau'n cael eu torri drwyddi draw. Fel y dywedais yn gynharach yng nghwestiynau'r llefarwyr, mae’r sefyllfa hon yn ei chyfanrwydd yn rhoi déjà vu gwael iawn i mi. A yw Trafnidiaeth Cymru yn mynd yn debyg i Faes Awyr Caerdydd, ac yn llyncu arian trethdalwyr tra bo'n parhau i fethu perfformio’n llwyddiannus? Ym mis Mehefin eleni, torrodd Llywodraeth Cymru gyllid Trafnidiaeth Cymru, a nawr, ychydig fisoedd yn ddiweddarach, maent yn rhoi £125 miliwn arall iddo. Mae hyn yn awgrymu bod rhywbeth wedi mynd o’i le yn ofnadwy yn Trafnidiaeth Cymru, ac mae Gweinidogion Llafur yn camu i’r adwy i achub y dydd gyda’u llyfr sieciau. Mae gwir angen inni weld achos busnes dros gyfiawnhau’r cyllid ychwanegol, a dylid ei wneud yn gyhoeddus fel y gall pobl ledled y wlad weld ble mae eu harian yn cael ei wario.

Ymddengys bod trenau’n cael rhyw fath o driniaeth arbennig, gyda bysiau’n cael eu hesgeuluso fel arfer, er bod tri chwarter y teithiau trafnidiaeth gyhoeddus yn digwydd ar fysiau yn hytrach na threnau. Gallai rhwng 20 a 25 y cant o wasanaethau bysiau gael eu torri y flwyddyn nesaf, sy'n achosi pryder gwirioneddol yn ein cymunedau, a hynny ledled y wlad, felly mae’n wirioneddol siomedig nad oes unrhyw gymorth ariannol yn cael ei bwmpio i mewn i’r diwydiant hanfodol hwn. Ar hyn o bryd, mae Trafnidiaeth Cymru yn methu cyrraedd y nod o ran darparu gwasanaeth o safon, ond nid oes raid i bethau fod felly. Mae angen inni weld Llywodraeth Cymru yn ailasesu eu blaenoriaethau ac yn mynd i’r afael â phroblemau cynyddol Trafnidiaeth Cymru unwaith ac am byth. Diolch.

17:30

Diolch, Llywydd. Just waiting for it to be unmuted there.

I think in the interests of transparency, I should say I’ve shared a journey from Abercynon to Cardiff with Delyth Jewell, and a very pleasant journey it was too, where it was clear that we agreed on more than we disagreed, which was really important to recognise, and I’d certainly agree with what she says about the Rhymney line.

I’ve been campaigning on this for the last seven years to improve the transport on the Rhymney to Penarth line, and it has seen the introduction of brand-new class 231 trains built by Stadler, to their fast, light, intercity and regional train design. They were introduced in early 2023 and I think the Deputy Minister was there at the unveiling. The 11 trains have been built in Switzerland. Similar trains have been introduced successfully by Greater Anglia and other operators throughout Europe, so these really are world-class trains. The services will actually be transferred out of the Rhymney valley line when the very similar class 756s are available and are brought onto the Rhymney valley line, so what you’re going to see is the huge progress, huge visible progress that we’ve had on the Rhymney line being extended across Wales, as soon as those 756s come online. So, I think if we were having this debate in a year’s time, I think it would have a whole different flavour and we would be seeing a whole lot more progress.

One thing I would take issue with with what Delyth Jewell said: I don’t think either the previous Minister, Ken Skates, or the current Minister ever said that the progress would be immediate following the transfer of Arriva to TfW. I think it takes time to build the trains themselves, many of which are being built in Wales, and that means that it is going to take time to have the transfer.

What we’ve also seen is the work that is being done on the transformation of the Rhymney line and it’s happened on other lines, so they’re currently carrying out piling works across the Rhymney line to prepare for the installation of the overhead line equipment and vegetation management work. All of this is causing inevitable disruption on the line and that’s why I say to Natasha Asghar that you see bus replacement services: it's because the lines are being prepared for the future, for a future world-class train service. That’s why you see some disruption at this moment in time. That disruption is inevitable in order to see an improved service, and as time goes by, that service will definitely emulate the excellent service that we see between Rhymney and Cardiff currently, and I think that same thing will happen in Abercynon when the tram trains are available for that line too. So, we will see progress.

I take the point about bus connecting services. I think this is where the Deputy Minister has indicated that franchising will enable the connection of bus services to rail lines. That is a vital step forward, and I would also like to see single ticketing services, so you could buy a single ticket for bus and rail, connecting the rail lines to those bus services. I think, for too long, we’ve seen bus services running in parallel to Cardiff with rail services in my constituency. That is in many ways unnecessary where there is sufficient space and, therefore, by connecting across east and west, I think we can make some progress. So, perhaps the Deputy Minister might want to talk about the planned franchising Bill that would enable that.

And I think just to say one other thing: I held in the summer a workshop with Transport for Wales where members of the public turned up to talk about the issues they’re having with noise as a result of the line. I’ve got to say that Transport for Wales engaged brilliantly with people and explained the extent of this. Even though the work is going on into next year, the noisiest bit was being done right now and is largely coming to an end in many parts of the constituency.

So, we are seeing progress. I really would imagine that people in Transport for Wales will be dismayed by the Conservatives saying that they’re a failing organisation; they manifestly are not. They are making progress, and as I said at the beginning, this time next year, I think if we have this debate again, we’ll see a very different rail service across Wales that emulates that which is in my constituency.

Diolch, Lywydd. Roeddwn yn aros i'r microffon gael ei ddadfudo.

Er tryloywder, rwy'n credu y dylwn ddweud fy mod wedi rhannu taith o Abercynon i Gaerdydd gyda Delyth Jewell, ac roedd yn daith ddymunol iawn hefyd, lle roedd yn amlwg ein bod yn cytuno ar fwy na roeddem yn anghytuno yn ei gylch, a oedd yn bwysig ei gydnabod, ac rwy'n sicr yn cytuno â’r hyn a ddywed am reilffordd Rhymni.

Rwyf wedi bod yn ymgyrchu ar hyn dros y saith mlynedd diwethaf i wella’r drafnidiaeth ar reilffordd Rhymni i Benarth, ac mae hynny wedi arwain at gyflwyno trenau dosbarth 231 newydd sbon a adeiladwyd gan Stadler, yn ôl eu cynllun trenau cyflym, ysgafn, rhyngddinesig a rhanbarthol. Cawsant eu cyflwyno yn gynnar yn 2023, a chredaf fod y Dirprwy Weinidog yno pan gawsant eu dadorchuddio. Mae'r 11 trên wedi'u hadeiladu yn y Swistir. Mae trenau tebyg wedi’u cyflwyno’n llwyddiannus gan Greater Anglia a gweithredwyr eraill ledled Ewrop, felly mae’r rhain yn drenau o safon fyd-eang. Bydd y gwasanaethau'n cael eu trosglwyddo allan o reilffordd cwm Rhymni pan fydd y trenau dosbarth 756, sy'n debyg iawn, ar gael ac yn cael eu rhoi ar waith ar reilffordd cwm Rhymni, felly yr hyn y byddwch yn ei weld yw'r cynnydd enfawr a gweladwy a gawsom ar reilffordd Rhymni yn cael ei ymestyn ledled Cymru, cyn gynted ag y bydd y trenau dosbarth 756 hynny ar waith. Felly, pe baem yn cael y ddadl hon ymhen blwyddyn, rwy'n credu y byddai'n ddadl hollol wahanol ac y byddem yn gweld llawer mwy o gynnydd.

Un peth y buaswn yn anghytuno ag ef yn yr hyn a ddywedodd Delyth Jewell: ni chredaf fod y Gweinidog blaenorol, Ken Skates, na’r Gweinidog presennol erioed wedi dweud y byddai’r cynnydd yn digwydd yn syth ar ôl trosglwyddo Arriva i Trafnidiaeth Cymru. Credaf ei bod yn cymryd amser i adeiladu’r trenau eu hunain, gyda llawer ohonynt yn cael eu hadeiladu yng Nghymru, a golyga hynny y bydd yn cymryd amser i gwblhau'r trosglwyddiad.

Gwelsom hefyd y gwaith sy'n cael e wneud ar drawsnewid rheilffordd Rhymni, ac mae wedi digwydd ar reilffyrdd eraill, felly ar hyn o bryd, maent yn gwneud gwaith gosod seilbyst ar reilffordd Rhymni i baratoi ar gyfer gosod cyfarpar llinellau uwchben a gwaith rheoli llystyfiant. Mae hyn oll yn achosi tarfu anochel ar y rheilffordd, a dyna pam fy mod yn dweud wrth Natasha Asghar eich bod yn gweld gwasanaethau bysiau yn lle trenau: oherwydd bod y rheilffyrdd yn cael eu paratoi ar gyfer y dyfodol, ar gyfer gwasanaeth trên o safon fyd-eang yn y dyfodol. Dyna pam eich bod yn gweld peth tarfu ar hyn o bryd. Mae’r tarfu hwnnw’n anochel er mwyn cael gwasanaeth gwell, ac wrth i amser fynd heibio, bydd y gwasanaeth hwnnw’n sicr yn efelychu’r gwasanaeth rhagorol a welwn rhwng Rhymni a Chaerdydd ar hyn o bryd, ac rwy'n credu y bydd yr un peth yn digwydd yn Abercynon pan fydd y trenau tram ar gael ar gyfer y rheilffordd honno hefyd. Felly, byddwn yn gweld cynnydd.

Rwy'n derbyn y pwynt am wasanaethau bysiau cysylltiol. Credaf mai dyma ble mae’r Dirprwy Weinidog wedi nodi y bydd masnachfreinio'n galluogi cysylltu gwasanaethau bysiau â rheilffyrdd. Mae hwnnw’n gam hanfodol ymlaen, a hoffwn hefyd weld gwasanaethau un tocyn, fel y gallech brynu un tocyn ar gyfer bysiau a rheilffyrdd, gan gysylltu’r rheilffyrdd â’r gwasanaethau bysiau. Ers gormod o amser, rwy'n credu ein bod wedi gweld gwasanaethau bysiau yn rhedeg i Gaerdydd ochr yn ochr â gwasanaethau rheilffordd yn fy etholaeth. Mae hynny’n ddiangen mewn sawl ffordd lle mae digon o le, ac felly, drwy gysylltu ar draws y dwyrain a’r gorllewin, credaf y gallwn wneud rhywfaint o gynnydd. Felly, efallai yr hoffai'r Dirprwy Weinidog sôn am y Bil masnachfreinio arfaethedig a fyddai’n galluogi hynny.

Ac os caf ddweud un peth arall: cynhaliais weithdy gyda Trafnidiaeth Cymru dros yr haf lle daeth aelodau o'r cyhoedd i siarad am y problemau y maent yn eu cael gyda sŵn o ganlyniad i'r rheilffordd. Mae'n rhaid imi ddweud bod Trafnidiaeth Cymru wedi ymgysylltu'n wych â phobl ac wedi egluro'r sefyllfa. Er y bydd y gwaith yn parhau i'r flwyddyn nesaf, roedd y gwaith mwyaf swnllyd yn digwydd ar hyn o bryd ac mae'n dod i ben at ei gilydd mewn sawl rhan o'r etholaeth.

Felly, rydym yn gweld cynnydd. Buaswn yn dychmygu y bydd pobl yn Trafnidiaeth Cymru yn siomedig wrth glywed y Ceidwadwyr yn dweud eu bod yn sefydliad sy'n methu; mae'n amlwg nad ydynt. Maent yn gwneud cynnydd, ac fel y dywedais ar y dechrau, yr adeg hon y flwyddyn nesaf, os cawn y ddadl hon eto, rwy'n credu y gwelwn wasanaeth rheilffordd gwahanol iawn ledled Cymru sy'n efelychu’r hyn sydd gennym yn fy etholaeth i.

17:35

Dwi'n mawr obeithio bod Hefin David yn mynd i fod yn gywir, oherwydd pwrpas y ddadl hon ydy ein bod ni eisiau sicrhau bod y gwasanaethau yma ar gael. Rydyn ni wedi clywed nifer o wleidyddion yn tan addo a—. Wel, mae nifer wedi dweud y dylai gwleidyddion tan-addo a gorgyflawni, ond yr hyn rydyn ni wedi ei weld yn rhy aml efo rheilffyrdd ydy'r gwrthwyneb, gyda nifer yn goraddo a thangyflawni, fel rydyn ni wedi ei weld gyda HS2. A does dim gwadu’r ffaith—a dwi'n falch bod Delyth Jewell wedi dechrau'r ddadl trwy ddweud hyn—fod y buddsoddiad sylweddol sy'n digwydd yn y rhanbarth dwi’n ei gynrychioli ar y funud yng Nghanol De Cymru difawr ei angen ac wedi bod llawer rhy hir yn dod. Felly, dwi yn croesawu'n fawr y gwaith sy'n digwydd, fel y mae nifer, wrth gwrs, o etholwyr.

Ond does dim gwadu ychwaith fod hwn wedi cael effaith anferthol ar drigolion, oherwydd, fel bydd nifer yn gwybod, ers Ebrill does yr un trên wedi rhedeg i Dreherbert ac mae hyn wedi cael effaith aruthrol ar drigolion yn y Rhondda. Mi oedd Delyth Jewell yn sôn ynglŷn â'r rhai sydd wedi colli swyddi oherwydd eu bod yn gyson hwyr i'r gwaith. Mae hynny'n realiti. Mae hynny'n cael ei adlewyrchu mewn gwaith achos. Mae rhai eraill wedi gorfod rhoi'r gorau i swyddi gan eu bod nhw jest yn methu cyrraedd y gwasanaethau sydd yn angenrheidiol er mwyn eu cael i'r gwaith, a does yna ddim trafnidiaeth amgen ganddyn nhw. Rydyn ni'n gweld o ran y niferoedd bychain iawn sydd efo ceir mewn rhai ardaloedd ac yn methu fforddio cael ceir. Mae eraill yn hwyr i’r ysgol neu ddim yn cyrraedd yr ysgol o gwbl. Mi oedd y Gweinidog addysg ddoe yn sôn ynglŷn â phresenoldeb. Wel, pan does yna ddim trafnidiaeth amgen, mae hynny'n eithriadol o heriol. Ac apwyntiadau hwyr—roeddwn i'n gweld bod y Gweinidog iechyd wedi sôn yn ddiweddar ynglŷn â faint sy'n colli apwyntiadau meddygol. Faint o'r rheini sydd oherwydd bod gwasanaethau ddim yn rhedeg? Dwi'n meddwl bod yn rhaid inni edrych felly ar beth ydy effaith hyn ar gymaint o wasanaethau eraill, ac os ydyn ni'n edrych o ran gwastraffu arian, wel, yn sicr, pan fydd pobl yn methu â chyrraedd apwyntiadau ysbyty neu feddyg ac ati, mae hyn yn broblem ddyrys.

Mae busnesau hefyd wedi dioddef yn aruthrol, gyda llai o bobl yn ymweld â busnesau mewn llefydd megis Ton Pentre a Threorci, oherwydd problemau traffig dybryd wrth i waith arall gael ei wneud ar yr un pryd a chynnydd yn y nifer yn defnyddio ceir. Dwi'n meddwl bod yn rhaid inni fod yn onest hefyd: dydy'r system gwasanaethau bws amgen ddim wedi bod yn llwyddiant aruthrol. Oherwydd y problemau traffig, maen nhw'n cymryd gymaint yn hirach neu ddim yn troi i fyny o gwbl. Mae rhywun yn poeni hefyd pam bod yna leihad wedi bod yn y gwasanaethau bws yma oherwydd bod pobl ddim yn eu defnyddio nhw. Mae'n dangos bod yna broblem yn rhywle. 

Mae pobl yn edrych ymlaen yn fawr at y gwaith yn cael ei gwblhau, ond yn barod mae yna bryderon yn cael eu mynegi. Fe addawyd iddynt deithiau cyflymach, mwy o gapasiti i deithwyr, gwasanaethau amlach a mwy dibynadwy, a chysylltiadau gwell. Ond ar hyn o bryd, deallaf mai hen drenau fydd yn cael eu defnyddio pan agorir y lein—gobeithio ym mis Chwefror. Mae amwysedd hefyd ynglŷn ag a oes bwriad i ymestyn yr amserlen wedi i’r gwaith gwblhau. Felly, yr ofn mawr ar y funud ydy na fydd gwasanaeth dim gwell wedi hyn i gyd ac felly na fydd y Rhondda yn gweld budd y buddsoddiad fel y dylai. Tybed all y Dirprwy Weinidog roi diweddariad ac unrhyw sicrwydd wrth ymateb heddiw.

Yn benodol hefyd, mae eraill wedi sôn ynglŷn â'r toriadau i wasanaethau bws o ran cysylltu â’r gorsafoedd. Wedi’r cyfan, un elfen o’r metro ydy'r trenau. Mae bysys a theithiau llesol yn rhan hanfodol hefyd. Tybed a allwn ni hefyd gael diweddariad o ran yr elfen hon, oherwydd mae honno'n mynd i fod yn allweddol bwysig.

Mae yna ddiffyg integreiddio a chydweithio wedi bod ar y prosiect cymleth hwn. Dwi'n gwybod bod y cyngor lleol wedi bod yn rhwystredig iawn. Maen nhw wedi gweld penderfyniadau yn cael eu gwneud ar hap, mewn brys, a'r cyfathrebu’n ddiffygiol yn aml. Felly, yr hyn yr hoffwn i ofyn hefyd ydy: pa wersi sydd wedi cael eu dysgu, oherwydd mae cyfathrebu'n hanfodol bwysig? Dwi ddim yn gwybod am unrhyw un arall sydd wedi trio deall os ydy bws yn rhedeg neu beidio ac edrych ar wefan Trafnidiaeth Cymru yn ystod y gwaith yma, ond dwi'n methu â gweithio'r peth allan o gwbl i wybod os oes yna drên yn rhedeg neu beidio. Felly, mae'n haws i chi neidio mewn car, os oes gennych chi'r opsiwn hwnnw. Ond lle nad oes gennych chi opsiwn, dwi'n meddwl bod yna waith mawr i'w wneud o ran cyfathrebu.

Felly, dwi'n gobeithio y bydd y Llywodraeth yn dysgu o'r prosiect hwn, a rhai o'r diffygion, er mwyn cynllunio'n well yn y dyfodol. Mae angen inni weithio'n galed i adfer y niferoedd sydd yn teithio ar drenau. Felly, gaf i ofyn hefyd i'r Gweinidog, wrth ymateb, pa gynlluniau sydd gan Lywodraeth Cymru i sicrhau bod mwy yn defnyddio'r trenau wedi i'r lein ailagor hefyd? Mae'n allweddol bwysig ein bod ni'n gweld y buddsoddiad parhaus hwn, ond mae hefyd yn bwysig ei fod o'n fforddiadwy a bod y gwasanaethau yna nid dim ond i gysylltu'r Cymoedd i Gaerdydd, ond Caerdydd a Chymru i'r Cymoedd.

I very much hope that Hefin David is going to be correct in his analysis, because the purpose of this debate is that we want to ensure that these services are available. We've heard many politicians under-promising—. Many, rather, have said that politicians should under-promise and over-deliver, but what we've seen too often with railways is the opposite, with many over-promising and under-delivering, as we've seen with HS2. And there is no denying the fact—and I'm pleased that Delyth Jewell started the debate with this—that the significant investment that's occurring in the region that I represent currently in South Wales Central is very much needed and has been too long in coming. So, I very much welcome the work that is being done, as do many of my constituents, of course. 

But, there's no denying either that this has had a huge impact on the residents, because, as many will know, since April, no trains have run to Treherbert, and this has had a major impact on residents in the Rhondda. Delyth Jewell talked about some of those who have lost their jobs because they were regularly late to work. That's a reality and that is reflected in casework. Others have had to give up their jobs as they just can't get to the services that they very much need to be able to access work, and they do not have any alternative modes of transport. We know about the very small numbers of people who have cars in some areas and they can't afford a car. Others are late to school or don't get to school at all. The Minister for education yesterday talked about attendance. Well, when there is no alternative transport available, that's very challenging. And people are late to appointments. I note that the Minister for health has mentioned recently the number of people missing medical appointments. How many of those cases are because services are not available or not running? And I think that we have to look at what the impact of this is on so many other services, and if we're looking at a waste of money, well, certainly, when people can't reach a hospital or medical appointment and so on, this is a major problem.

Businesses have also suffered a great deal, with fewer people visiting businesses in places such as Ton Pentre and Treorchy, because of traffic issues while other works are undertaken at the same time and there's an increase in journeys by car. And I think that we have to be honest that the bus replacement services have not been a sweeping success. Because of the traffic problems, they take far longer or they don't turn up at all. And one is also concerned as to why there has been a decrease in these bus services, well, it's because that people aren't using them. It shows that there's a problem somewhere.

People are very much looking forward to the completion of the work, but concerns are already being expressed. They were promised faster journeys, more capacity for travellers, more frequent and more reliable services, and better connections. But, at present, I understand that older trains will be used when the lines reopens—hopefully in February. There is currently ambiguity as to whether there is an intention to extend the timetable once the work has been completed. So, the major concern at present is that the service will be no better after all of this work and upheaval, and that the Rhondda will not, therefore, see the benefit of this investment as it should. I wonder whether the Deputy Minister could provide an update and some reassurance in his response today. 

Also, others have mentioned the cuts to bus services in terms of connections with stations, because after all, trains are but one element of the metro. Buses and active travel are vital components too. I wonder whether we could also have an update on this specific element, because that's going to be vitally important.

There is a lack of integration and collaboration on this very complex project. I know that the local authority has felt very frustrated. They've seen decisions being made on an ad-hoc basis and a frequent lack of communication. So, what I would also like to ask is: what lessons have been learned, because communication is vital? I don't know whether anybody else has tried to understand whether a bus is running or not and has looked at the Transport for Wales website during this work, but I can't figure it out at all to see whether a train is running or not. So, it's easier for you to go by car if you have that option. But where you might not have that option, I think there is a great deal of work to do to communicate better.

So, I hope that the Government will learn from this project, and some of the deficiencies and failings, in order to plan better for the future. We need to work hard to restore the numbers of people travelling by train. So, may I also ask the Minister, in responding, what plans the Welsh Government has to ensure that more people use the trains after this line reopens? It's vitally important that we do see this ongoing investment, but it's also important that it's affordable and that those services are there not just to connect the Valleys to Cardiff, but also Cardiff and Wales to the Valleys.

17:40

The statistics on Transport for Wales's performance are very clear for all to see. Twenty-two per cent of people in Wales believe their train services are bad—the highest level in Britain. Transport for Wales has failed to even halfway reach its target of 95 per cent of services being operated by new trains, and there were so many delays in 2022 alone, that almost £1 million in compensation had to be paid out. And all that is in the context of almost £1 billion in funding, with an increase in last week's budget, to fund it. It's an awful lot of taxpayers' money for such a shoddy service.

In my own region of South Wales West, the Welsh Government's overall handling of rail has been pitiful: constant delays to the south Wales metro system, and the much promised but never delivered ongoing farce that is the Brackla railway station. Fundamentally, the Welsh Government have failed to encourage the public at large to actually use trains in the first place. Rail travel is less prevalent in Wales than across the UK. Rail station usage in Wales accounted for just 1.6 per cent of the UK total in 2021-22.

So, it's no surprise that the overwhelming volume of journeys in Wales are still conducted by car, and with this Government's performance in terms of rail, who can blame them? So, it's in that context that it seems extremely self-defeating for Labour and Plaid to continue their war on motorists. With all the efforts being made to force people out of their cars through a ban on new roads, road-charging schemes and default 20 mph speed limits, maybe the Welsh Government should have actually thought about improving public transport for those people to use instead. It's all very well and good for the Welsh Government and the Deputy Minister to push modal shift, getting more people onto trains and buses, but when services are so poor, can you really blame people for not going along with his madcap schemes? Would you like an intervention?

Mae’r ystadegau ar berfformiad Trafnidiaeth Cymru yn glir iawn i bawb eu gweld. Mae 22 y cant o bobl Cymru yn credu bod eu gwasanaethau trên yn wael—y lefel uchaf ym Mhrydain. Mae Trafnidiaeth Cymru wedi methu cyrraedd hyd yn oed hanner ei darged o 95 y cant o wasanaethau’n cael eu gweithredu gan drenau newydd, a bu cymaint o oedi yn 2022 yn unig fel y bu’n rhaid talu bron i £1 filiwn mewn iawndal. Ac mae hynny oll yng nghyd-destun bron i £1 biliwn o gyllid, gyda chynnydd yn y gyllideb yr wythnos diwethaf, i'w ariannu. Mae'n llawer o arian trethdalwyr am wasanaeth mor wael.

Yn fy rhanbarth i yng Ngorllewin De Cymru, mae'r ffordd y mae Llywodraeth Cymru wedi ymdrin â rheilffyrdd wedi bod yn druenus at ei gilydd: oedi cyson i system metro de Cymru, a ffars barhaus yr addewid mawr sydd eto i'w wireddu, sef gorsaf reilffordd Bracla. Yn y bôn, mae Llywodraeth Cymru wedi methu annog y cyhoedd yn gyffredinol i ddefnyddio trenau yn y lle cyntaf. Mae teithio ar drên yn llai cyffredin yng Nghymru nag ar draws y DU. Dim ond 1.6 y cant o gyfanswm defnydd gorsafoedd rheilffordd y DU oedd yng Nghymru yn 2021-22.

Felly, nid yw'n syndod fod y nifer helaeth o deithiau yng Nghymru yn dal i gael eu gwneud mewn car, a chyda pherfformiad y Llywodraeth hon ar reilffyrdd, pwy a all eu beio? Felly, yn y cyd-destun hwnnw, ymddengys yn hynod hunandrechol i Lafur a Phlaid Cymru barhau â'u rhyfel ar fodurwyr. Gyda’r holl ymdrechion a wneir i orfodi pobl allan o’u ceir drwy waharddiad ar ffyrdd newydd, cynlluniau codi tâl ar ddefnyddwyr ffyrdd a therfynau cyflymder 20 mya diofyn, efallai y dylai Llywodraeth Cymru fod wedi ystyried gwella trafnidiaeth gyhoeddus i’r bobl hynny ei defnyddio yn lle hynny. Un peth yw i Lywodraeth Cymru a'r Dirprwy Weinidog annog newid dulliau teithio, cael mwy o bobl ar drenau a bysiau, ond pan fo gwasanaethau mor wael, a allwch chi feio pobl mewn gwirionedd am beidio â chefnogi ei gynlluniau gwallgof? A hoffech chi wneud ymyriad?

Yes, I would, indeed. Thank you—you anticipated me asking you to intervene. Would you then support—? I disagree entirely with what you said about the war on motorists—that's a load of populist baloney—but would you agree then that what we should be doing with the finite pot of money is making sure that we do, over time, shift the investment into other modes of transport to make those easy choices, on bus, on train and so on, that we should shift the investment? Or are you just wishing away on a magic money tree?

Hoffwn, yn wir. Diolch yn fawr—fe wnaethoch ragweld y buaswn yn gofyn am gael gwneud ymyriad. A fyddech chi felly'n cefnogi—? Rwy’n anghytuno’n llwyr â’r hyn a ddywedoch chi am y rhyfel ar fodurwyr—mae hynny'n nonsens poblyddol—ond a fyddech chi'n cytuno felly mai’r hyn y dylem ei wneud â’r gronfa gyfyngedig o arian yw sicrhau ein bod, dros amser, yn symud y buddsoddiad tuag at ddulliau trafnidiaeth eraill i wneud y dewisiadau hawdd hynny, ar fysiau, ar drenau ac ati, y dylem symud y buddsoddiad? Neu a ydych yn seilio'ch dymuniadau ar goeden arian hud?

Well, first of all, I wouldn't call 0.5 million people signing a petition 'populist nonsense'. Voters in Ogmore—. I was in Pencoed earlier this week speaking to voters, and they are up in arms, quite frankly, about the Welsh Government's default 20 mph speed limit. I do think that we need more investment in public transport—that's very clear—but we can't do one thing without the other. It's very easy to discourage people from using their cars. The difficult bit is getting public transport right, and the Welsh Government has completely failed to do that.

But ultimately, look, people are making a rational choice. They want to be able to choose their method of transport, one that suits them best, without the state hectoring them or telling them they're doing something wrong by not using the Welsh Government's shambolic public transport scheme. The people of Wales have made up their own mind about Labour's war on motorists. It's not that they don't want to get the train; it's that their transport policy has completely derailed. It's not that they don't know that they've banned roads; it's that this Labour Government have run out of road. And it's not that people don't want to cycle to work; the public have just decided that this Deputy Minister should be getting on his bike.

And it's important to remember that as extreme as Labour have become on this, Plaid Cymru have been behind them every single step of the way. Whatever they may spin to their rural voters on 20 mph or anything else, when they arrive here in Cardiff Bay, their attitude all of a sudden becomes very different. When it actually comes to votes and debates in the Senedd—[Interruption.] I'll let you come in in a moment. When it comes to votes and debates in the Senedd that affect Government policy, whatever mood music they might play to their constituents, Plaid always seem to fall behind Labour's latest schemes. But, just so that they can claim to their voters they're offering something different, they try and come up with an alternative. Just two weeks ago they unbelievably submitted a motion to this Senedd calling for the electrification of all railway lines in Wales. When I intervened in that debate to ask the leader of Plaid Cymru whether he had costed that policy, he hadn't. Our politics deserves better than Plaid’s brand of nationalist populism. So, Heledd, you're more than welcome to come in and illuminate us by telling us how much the electrification for all railway lines in Wales might cost.

Wel, yn gyntaf oll, ni fuaswn yn galw 0.5 miliwn o bobl yn llofnodi deiseb yn 'nonsens poblyddol'. Mae pleidleiswyr yn Ogwr—. Roeddwn ym Mhencoed yn gynharach yr wythnos hon yn siarad â phleidleiswyr, ac maent yn gandryll, a dweud y gwir, am derfyn cyflymder 20 mya diofyn Llywodraeth Cymru. Credaf fod angen mwy o fuddsoddiad mewn trafnidiaeth gyhoeddus—mae hynny’n glir iawn—ond ni allwn wneud un peth heb y llall. Mae'n hawdd iawn annog pobl i beidio â defnyddio'u ceir. Y rhan anodd yw darparu trafnidiaeth gyhoeddus addas, ac mae Llywodraeth Cymru wedi methu gwneud hynny'n llwyr.

Ond yn y pen draw, edrychwch, mae pobl yn gwneud dewis rhesymegol. Maent yn dymuno gallu dewis eu dull o deithio, yr un sydd fwyaf addas iddynt, heb i'r wladwriaeth refru arnynt neu ddweud wrthynt eu bod yn gwneud rhywbeth o’i le drwy beidio â defnyddio cynllun trafnidiaeth gyhoeddus gwarthus Llywodraeth Cymru. Mae pobl Cymru wedi ffurfio eu barn eu hunain ar ryfel Llafur ar fodurwyr. Nid nad ydynt eisiau teithio ar y y trên; ond bod eu polisi trafnidiaeth wedi dod oddi ar y cledrau'n llwyr. Nid nad ydynt yn gwybod eu bod wedi gwahardd ffyrdd; ond bod y Llywodraeth Lafur hon wedi rhedeg allan o ffordd. Ac nid nad yw pobl eisiau beicio i'r gwaith; ond bod y cyhoedd wedi penderfynu y dylai’r Dirprwy Weinidog hwn fynd ar ei feic.

Ac er mor eithafol yw Llafur ar hyn, mae'n bwysig cofio bod Plaid Cymru wedi bod y tu ôl iddynt bob cam o'r ffordd. Ni waeth beth a ddywedant wrth eu pleidleiswyr gwledig ynglŷn ag 20 mya neu unrhyw beth arall, pan fyddant yn dod yma i Fae Caerdydd, yn sydyn iawn, mae eu hagwedd yn newid yn llwyr. Pan ddaw'n fater o bleidleisiau a dadleuon yn y Senedd—[Torri ar draws.] Fe adawaf ichi ymyrryd mewn eiliad. Pan ddaw'n fater o bleidleisiau a dadleuon yn y Senedd sy’n effeithio ar bolisi’r Llywodraeth, ni waeth beth a ddywedant wrth eu hetholwyr, ymddengys bod Plaid Cymru bob amser yn cefnogi cynlluniau diweddaraf Llafur. Ond er mwyn iddynt allu honni wrth eu pleidleiswyr eu bod yn cynnig rhywbeth gwahanol, maent yn ceisio dod o hyd i ddewis arall. Bythefnos yn ôl, fe wnaethant gyflwyno cynnig anghredadwy i’r Senedd hon yn galw am drydaneiddio holl reilffyrdd Cymru. Pan ymyrrais yn y ddadl honno i ofyn i arweinydd Plaid Cymru a oedd wedi costio'r polisi hwnnw, nid oedd wedi gwneud hynny. Mae ein gwleidyddiaeth yn haeddu gwell na brand Plaid Cymru o boblyddiaeth genedlaetholgar. Felly, Heledd, mae croeso ichi ymyrryd i'n goleuo drwy ddweud wrthym faint y gallai trydaneiddio holl reilffyrdd Cymru ei gostio.

17:45

I will decide what my intervention is, thank you very much. In terms of what you were saying, I don't quite understand how we've gone from railway to 20 mph, because this is a debate focused on public transport. I would like to know, though, how you think a Government should be reacting to the climate emergency if not to invest in public transport. You're saying 'car is king' and all of that—this is a debate about public transport and seeing that investment. Surely there is a role for Government in supporting people to make that choice from car to public transport.

Fe benderfynaf i beth fydd fy ymyriad, diolch yn fawr iawn. Ar yr hyn roeddech chi'n ei ddweud, nid wyf yn deall yn iawn sut rydym wedi mynd o reilffyrdd i 20 mya, gan mai dadl sy'n canolbwyntio ar drafnidiaeth gyhoeddus yw hon. Hoffwn wybod, serch hynny, sut y credwch y dylai Llywodraeth ymateb i’r argyfwng hinsawdd os nad drwy fuddsoddi mewn trafnidiaeth gyhoeddus. Rydych yn dweud mai'r 'car yw'r brenin' ac ati—dadl yw hon ar drafnidiaeth gyhoeddus a gweld y buddsoddiad hwnnw. Mae gan Lywodraeth rôl i gefnogi pobl i wneud y dewis i ddefnyddio trafnidiaeth gyhoeddus yn lle ceir.

I think the important thing is that we don't discourage people from using their cars without encouraging people—[Interruption.] We shouldn't be discouraging people to use their cars without investing in the public transport to back that up. It is impossible to do it otherwise. Time and time again, we hear Plaid Cymru come in with their—

Credaf mai'r peth pwysig yw nad ydym yn annog pobl i beidio â defnyddio eu ceir heb annog pobl—[Torri ar draws.] Ni ddylem annog pobl i beidio â defnyddio eu ceir heb fuddsoddi yn y drafnidiaeth gyhoeddus i ategu hynny. Mae'n amhosibl ei wneud fel arall. Dro ar ôl tro, clywn Blaid Cymru yn dod i mewn gyda'u—

You're opposing your own argument.

Rydych yn gwrthwynebu eich dadl eich hun.

I'd welcome the leader of Plaid Cymru—

Buaswn yn croesawu pe bai arweinydd Plaid Cymru—

Allow Tom Giffard to carry on with his contribution, unless you're making an attempt to intervene.

Gadewch i Tom Giffard barhau â'i gyfraniad, oni bai eich bod yn dymuno gwneud ymyriad.

The leader of Plaid Cymru makes claims from a sedentary position, but his claim in that debate two weeks ago to electrify all railway lines in Wales had not been costed. He brought it to the floor of this Senedd completely uncosted.

Mae arweinydd Plaid Cymru yn gwneud honiadau o'i sedd, ond nid oedd ei honiad yn y ddadl honno bythefnos yn ôl i drydaneiddio holl reilffyrdd Cymru wedi’i gostio. Fe'i cyflwynodd ar lawr y Senedd hon heb ei gostio o gwbl.

Will you take an intervention?

A wnewch chi dderbyn ymyriad?

I won't take an intervention, because I'm six and a half minutes into the debate, and I'm sure the Llywydd won't allow it.

Nid wyf am dderbyn ymyriad, gan fy mod chwe munud a hanner i mewn i'r ddadl, ac rwy'n siŵr na wnaiff y Llywydd ganiatáu hynny.

But if they would like some costings, could I suggest they don't spend £33 million on default 20 mph enforcement or £140 million on more politicians—two policies that have got Plaid's stamp of approval? But whether it's a red rosette or a green one, all of this game playing is just a fig leaf to try and pretend that there's some meaningful difference between Plaid Cymru and the Labour Party, because at the end of the day, we all know, and now the people of Wales know, that when you vote Plaid, you get Labour.

Ond os hoffent rywfaint o gostio, a gaf fi awgrymu nad ydynt yn gwario £33 miliwn ar orfodi terfyn 20 mya diofyn neu £140 miliwn ar fwy o wleidyddion—dau bolisi sydd wedi cael sêl bendith Plaid Cymru? Ond boed yn rhoséd goch neu un werdd, dim ond esgus yw'r holl gemau hyn i geisio honni bod rhyw wahaniaeth ystyrlon rhwng Plaid Cymru a’r Blaid Lafur, oherwydd yn y pen draw, gŵyr pob un ohonom, ac mae pobl Cymru yn gwybod bellach, pan fyddwch yn pleidleisio dros Blaid Cymru, rydych chi'n cael Llafur.

Mae fy rhanbarth i, fel rŷch chi'n gwybod, yn rhanbarth enfawr iawn, ac yn cynnwys ardaloedd gwledig yn bennaf, ac rŷn ni wedi dod, yn anffodus, yn gyson gyfarwydd â diffygion mawr mewn trafnidiaeth gyhoeddus yn y math yma o ardaloedd. Cyn lleied o'n trefi a'n pentrefi sydd wedi cael eu cysylltu gan reilffyrdd, ac rŷn ni felly yn gorfod dibynnu ar fysiau.

Rydw i wedi siarad yn barod heddiw ar fater Bwcabus, sydd yn ddarpariaeth eithriadol hanfodol i bobl mewn rhai ardaloedd yng Nghymru. A thra bod y gwasanaeth trên yn derbyn £125 miliwn ychwanegol o'r gyllideb eleni, dwi'n sylwi does yna ddim un geiniog goch ychwanegol yn cael ei ychwanegu at ddarpariaeth bysys. Felly, sut yn y byd, Weinidog, mae pobl sydd heb allu mynd ar drên yn gallu cysylltu â'i gilydd a chysylltu cymunedau â'i gilydd?

Nawr, 60 mlynedd yn ôl, roedd adroddiad Beeching wedi golygu cau ein rheilffyrdd ni yng Nghymru. A hyd yn oed ers hynny, does yna ddim byd wedi digwydd. Mae'r gwasanaeth yn dal i fod yn annigonol, yn enwedig yn ein hardaloedd gwledig ni. Esiampl berffaith o hynny yw absenoldeb cyswllt rheilffordd rhwng, er enghraifft, Aberystwyth a Chaerfyrddin. Er gwaethaf ymgyrchu brwd gan nifer o bobl, mae'r sefyllfa'n gwbl hurt—45 milltir sydd yn rhannu y ddwy dref, ac eto, os ydych chi eisiau mynd ar drên o Gaerfyrddin i Aberystwyth, mae'n rhaid mynd drwy Henffordd ac Amwythig er mwyn mynd i Aberystwyth, taith o ryw chwe awr. Cwbl, cwbl afresymol.

Dros yr haf, rwyf wedi nodi yn y Siambr yma hefyd ddiffygion llinell Calon Cymru, lle mae yna drenau'n cael eu canslo, mae trenau'n rhedeg yn hwyr, mae pobl yn cael eu gadael yn Llanwrtyd i aros am ryw ddwy awr a hanner, a dim bws na dim byd i ddod ar eu cyfer nhw i fynd â nhw adref.

Dwi'n derbyn bod y Gweinidog wedi cyfaddef sawl gwaith yn y Siambr yma bod yna ddiffygion. Ond rŷn ni wedi clywed hynny cymaint o weithiau, rŷn ni bron wedi mynd i anobeithio bod unrhyw welliant yn mynd i ddod. Rŷn ni wedi clywed yn barod gan Delyth yn fan hyn mai dim ond drwy gael pwerau llawn, fel sydd gan yr Alban a Gogledd Iwerddon dros eu rheilffyrdd, y mae modd i ni ddatblygu'r gwasanaeth yng Nghymru. Dyma'r unig ffordd y gallwn ni sicrhau y bydd yr arian—a dwi'n cytuno'n llwyr gyda Huw Irranca—yn dod gyda'r cyfrifoldeb hwnnw. Mae hynny'n werth rhyw £514 miliwn rhwng 2011 a 2020, yn ôl astudiaeth diweddar Canolfan Llywodraethiant Cymru. Ac mae'n golygu wedyn y gallwn ni gynllunio'n traciau ein hunain er budd ein cymunedau ni, yn hytrach na gwasanaethu budd a buddiant Llundain—a dyna'r ffordd mae'r traciau i gyd yn rhedeg.

Yn ein byd modern, dylai daearyddiaeth ddim fod yn rhwystr i'n galluogi ni i deithio, ac mae gan Blaid Cymru weledigaeth glir er mwyn creu rhwydwaith trafnidiaeth gyhoeddus ar draws pob rhan o Gymru, i gysylltu gogledd a de, gorllewin a dwyrain. Bydd hyn yn cynnwys llinell newydd ar hyd arfordir y gorllewin i gysylltu Caerfyrddin a Bangor, ac, o ganlyniad, creu hwb sylweddol economaidd a chymdeithasol i'n hardaloedd gwledig.

Dirprwy Weinidog, does dim rhaid i ni setlo am wasanaethau digyswllt ac annibynadwy. Mae yna ddyfodol gwell i drafnidiaeth gyhoeddus yng Nghymru, ond mae'n rhaid i'r gwasanaeth yma fod yn integredig, ac yn cynnwys trenau a bysys. Dim ond trwy sicrhau'r pwerau a'r arian sydd yn ddyledus i ni y gallwn ni sicrhau hyn. Diolch yn fawr.

My region, as you will know, is a very large region, it encompasses many rural communities, and we have, unfortunately, become very familiar with the major deficiencies in our public transport in these kinds of communities. So few of our towns and villages are connected by railways, and we are therefore reliant instead on buses.

I've spoken already today on the issue of Bwcabus, which is an exceptionally important and vital service indeed for people in some parts of Wales. And while rail services will receive an additional £125 million from this year's budget, I note that not a single penny more will be allocated to bus provision. So, how on earth, Minister, are those people who can't access train services able to connect with each other and connect between communities?

Now, 60 years ago, the Beeching report led to the closure of many of our railways in Wales. And even since then, very little has happened. The service continues to be inadequate, particularly in our rural areas. A perfect example of that, of course, is the lack of a rail link between, for example, Aberystwyth and Carmarthen. Despite the enthusiastic campaigns by many people, the situation is entirely ridiculous. Only 45 miles separates the two towns, and yet, if you want to travel by train from Carmarthen to Aberystwyth, you have to go through Hereford and Shrewsbury to access Aberystwyth, a journey of around six hours. It is totally unreasonable.

Over the summer, I noted in this Siambr the deficiencies with regard to the Heart of Wales line, where trains are cancelled, trains run late, people are left stranded in Llanwrtyd to wait for around two and a half hours, and no bus replacement buses available to them to take them home.

I accept that the Minister has admitted several times in this Chamber that there are deficiencies, but we've heard that so many times. We've lost hope that any improvements will be made. We've heard already from Delyth here that it's only by having the full powers, like Scotland and Northern Ireland, over our railways that we can develop the service here. This is the only way that we can ensure that the funding—and I agree entirely with Huw Irranca—comes with that responsibility, and that's worth around £514 million between 2011 and 2020, according to a recent study by the Wales Governance Centre. And it would mean then that we could plan our own routes for the benefits of our own communities, rather than serving the benefits and interests of London—and that's the way the train tracks run at present. 

In our modern world, geography should not be a barrier to travel, and Plaid Cymru has a clear vision for the creation of a pan-Wales public transport network, connecting north and south, east and west. This would include a new line along the Western coast to connect Carmarthen and Bangor, and, as a result, it would lead to a significant economic and social boost for our rural areas. 

Deputy Minister, we don't have to settle for fragmentary and unreliable services. There is a better future for public transport in Wales, but this service has to be integrated and include trains and buses, and it's only by securing the powers and the funding that we are owed that we can achieve this. Thank you.

17:50

Public transport is a hugely important part of building a greener and more equal Wales. I travel via rail frequently from north to south Wales, occasionally on the north Wales main line, Wrexham to Bidston, and other services across the country and border. The services lately have seen more overcrowding and cancellations, and recently it was down to weather, which is understandable, but also due to breakdown and servicing of trains and availability of drivers. 

Many more people want to travel at the weekend and for social occasions, but we don't have the availability of the stock to just move them around. I understand that it may be difficult to have enough drivers and that negotiations are under way through the unions regarding working hours and the working week to include Sundays from next year. Passengers have also said to me that if services won't be available, please don't advertise them, so they would know just to travel the next day, if that's possible. In our busy lives, it's better to have a train running on time with the inconvenience of choosing another day than the inconvenience of facing last-minute cancellations, waiting at stations, or standing for a long time on a crowded train. There are often cost implications for people; however, we would not want to this become permanent or frequent as a cost saving to the operator, as we are seeing on the Avanti West Coast line, which is operating across the border.

I welcome the massive £900 million investment in rolling stock across the Wales and borders network. I was told just a few months ago that the new 197s were to be rolled out by the end of 2023, but read recently that it will be the end of 2024. Unfortunately, I have been telling concerned constituents that when the rolling stock comes out at the end of 2023, capacity issues would be resolved. So, again, if possible, please can we manage expectation and keep people informed as to reasons why not? One hundred and twenty-five million pounds of extra funding has been found for rail and £46 million for buses as a transition fund. This funding is surely a one-off payment, and not recurring, so what contingencies do Transport for Wales have? Passenger numbers have not returned to bus transport, and I welcome that Transport for Wales will be advertising and promoting a campaign to be launched next month, which will be hugely important, and we all need to take part in that. We need reassurance that public bus transport is not being treated less favourably, as it impacts on more people, including access to education, work, medical appointments and the most vulnerable in our society.

The timetable information and tracking information via various apps is excellent and useful, and I would like to praise the helpfulness of Transport for Wales staff on platforms and on trains. I know people can book assistance, but I also see, on the platform, at the ticket office, staff generally helping people with bags, cases, prams and information. It can be daunting for many people to know which platform, which train to get, and the staff are extremely helpful building confidence for passengers. And I'm really pleased that Transport for Wales have taken on board the Boys Need Bins campaign, working with Prostate Cancer UK, following a discussion I had with a rail user raising it with Michelle from Transport Focus.

The National Union of Rail, Maritime and Transport Workers are striking because of rationalisation in the UK of ticket offices, conductors and platform staff. This is not happening in Wales, thank goodness. But it will have come at a cost to the transport budget and impact on cross-border services, as funding is not forthcoming from the UK Government. The UK Government is also looking at rationalising maintenance and building of new lines through Network Rail driving efficiencies. This could impact on flooding, encroachment of trees—we have ash dieback and there was a tree pollen issue with the 230s on the Wrexham-Bidston line. This will also impact on service. We can't just look at Transport for Wales alone; people need to realise that it's Network Rail and Transport for Wales, it's both Governments with the rail service. And, as I said, there are also issues with Avanti West Coast removing trains and services.

Public transport will always need subsidy. When the Victorians built the railways, they were competing for passengers, with sometimes duplicate lines that were not joined up. Various Governments, over many years, have tried different private and public options with varying success. Every time a Government has invested money, a following Government has cut it and tried to rationalise it. We need the UK Government to seriously invest in our public transport infrastructure and not reduce it, and give Wales the money it needs and its fair share. We also need Transport for Wales to manage expectation and be very open and up to date with information, so that it can take people on the journey along with them and manage expectation. Thank you.

Mae trafnidiaeth gyhoeddus yn rhan hynod bwysig o adeiladu Cymru wyrddach a mwy cyfartal. Rwy’n teithio ar y rheilffordd o’r gogledd i’r de yn aml, yn achlysurol ar brif linell reilffordd y gogledd, Wrecsam i Bidston, a gwasanaethau eraill ledled y wlad a’r gororau. Yn ddiweddar, mae’r gwasanaethau wedi gweld mwy o orlenwi a chanslo, ac yn ddiweddar, roedd hynny oherwydd y tywydd, sy’n ddealladwy, ond hefyd oherwydd bod trenau’n torri neu'n cael eu gwasanaethu, ac argaeledd gyrwyr.

Mae llawer mwy o bobl eisiau teithio ar y penwythnos ac ar gyfer achlysuron cymdeithasol, ond nid oes gennym ddigon o gerbydau rheilffyrdd ar gael i'w symud o gwmpas. Deallaf y gallai fod yn anodd cael digon o yrwyr a bod trafodaethau ar y gweill drwy’r undebau ynglŷn ag oriau gwaith a’r wythnos waith i gynnwys dydd Sul o’r flwyddyn nesaf ymlaen. Mae teithwyr hefyd wedi dweud wrthyf, os na fydd gwasanaethau ar gael, peidiwch â’u hysbysebu, fel eu bod yn gwybod bod angen iddynt ohirio'u taith tan y diwrnod wedyn, os yw hynny’n bosibl. Yn ein bywydau prysur, mae'n well cael trên sy'n rhedeg ar amser gyda'r anghyfleustra o ddewis diwrnod arall na'r anghyfleustra o wynebu canslo munud olaf, aros mewn gorsafoedd, neu orfod sefyll am amser maith ar drên gorlawn. Yn aml, mae goblygiadau ariannol i bobl; fodd bynnag, ni fyddem am i hyn ddod yn barhaol nac iddo ddigwydd yn aml fel arbediad cost i’r gweithredwr, fel y gwelwn gydag Avanti West Coast, sy’n gweithredu dros y ffin.

Rwy'n croesawu'r buddsoddiad enfawr o £900 miliwn mewn cerbydau trenau ar rwydwaith Cymru a’r gororau. Dywedwyd wrthyf ychydig fisoedd yn ôl fod y trenau 197 newydd i fod i gael eu cyflwyno erbyn diwedd 2023, ond darllenais yn ddiweddar y bydd hynny'n digwydd bellach erbyn diwedd 2024. Yn anffodus, rwyf wedi bod yn dweud wrth etholwyr pryderus, pan ddaw’r cerbydau ar waith ar ddiwedd 2023, y byddai'r problemau capasiti yn cael eu datrys. Felly, unwaith eto, os yn bosibl, os gwelwch yn dda, a gawn ni reoli disgwyliadau a rhoi'r wybodaeth ddiweddaraf i bobl am y rhesymau pam nad yw'n digwydd? Mae £125 miliwn o arian ychwanegol wedi'i ganfod ar gyfer rheilffyrdd, a £46 miliwn ar gyfer bysiau fel cronfa bontio. Mae’r cyllid hwn yn sicr yn daliad untro, ac nid yn gylchol, felly pa gynlluniau wrth gefn sydd gan Trafnidiaeth Cymru? Nid yw nifer y teithwyr wedi dychwelyd i drafnidiaeth bysiau, ac rwy'n croesawu'r ffaith y bydd Trafnidiaeth Cymru yn hysbysebu ac yn hyrwyddo ymgyrch i’w lansio fis nesaf, a fydd yn aruthrol o bwysig, ac mae angen i bob un ohonom gymryd rhan yn honno. Mae angen sicrwydd arnom nad yw trafnidiaeth ar fysiau cyhoeddus yn cael ei thrin yn llai ffafriol, gan ei bod yn effeithio ar fwy o bobl, gan gynnwys mynediad at addysg, gwaith, apwyntiadau meddygol a'r rhai mwyaf agored i niwed yn ein cymdeithas.

Mae’r wybodaeth am yr amserlen a’r wybodaeth olrhain drwy apiau amrywiol yn ardderchog ac yn ddefnyddiol, a hoffwn ganmol cymwynasgarwch staff Trafnidiaeth Cymru ar blatfformau ac ar drenau. Gwn y gall pobl archebu cymorth, ond gwelaf hefyd, ar y platfform, yn y swyddfa docynnau, staff yn gyffredinol yn helpu pobl gyda bagiau, cesys, pramiau a gwybodaeth. Gall llawer o bobl deimlo pryder wrth geisio dod o hyd i blatfform, pa drên i'w ddal, ac mae'r staff yn hynod o barod i helpu i feithrin hyder ymhlith teithwyr. Ac rwy’n falch iawn fod Trafnidiaeth Cymru wedi ystyried ymgyrch Boys Need Bins, gan weithio gyda Prostate Cancer UK, yn dilyn trafodaeth a gefais gyda defnyddiwr rheilffyrdd a chodi'r mater gyda Michelle o Transport Focus.

Mae Undeb Cenedlaethol y Gweithwyr Rheilffordd, Morwrol a Thrafnidiaeth yn streicio am fod staff platfform, swyddfeydd tocynnau, a thocynwyr y DU yn cael eu had-drefnu. Nid yw hyn yn digwydd yng Nghymru, diolch byth. Ond bydd wedi golygu cost i’r gyllideb drafnidiaeth ac wedi cael effaith ar wasanaethau trawsffiniol, gan nad oes cyllid yn cael ei ddarparu gan Lywodraeth y DU. Mae Llywodraeth y DU hefyd yn ystyried ad-drefnu gwaith cynnal a chadw ac adeiladu rheilffyrdd newydd drwy ymdrechion Network Rail i wella effeithlonrwydd. Gallai hyn effeithio ar lifogydd, ar goed—mae gennym glefyd coed ynn, ac roedd problem paill coed gyda'r cerbydau 230 ar reilffordd Wrecsam-Bidston. Bydd hyn hefyd yn effeithio ar y gwasanaeth. Ni allwn edrych ar Trafnidiaeth Cymru ar ei ben ei hun; mae angen i bobl sylweddoli bod hyn yn ymwneud â Network Rail a Trafnidiaeth Cymru, a bod y ddwy Lywodraeth yn gyfrifol am y gwasanaeth rheilffyrdd. Ac fel y dywedais, mae problemau hefyd gydag Avanti West Coast yn cael gwared ar drenau a gwasanaethau.

Bydd angen cymhorthdal ar drafnidiaeth gyhoeddus bob amser. Pan adeiladodd y Fictoriaid y rheilffyrdd, roeddent yn cystadlu am deithwyr, gyda llinellau dyblyg weithiau, nad oeddent wedi'u cysylltu. Mae Llywodraethau amrywiol, dros nifer o flynyddoedd, wedi rhoi cynnig ar wahanol opsiynau preifat a chyhoeddus gyda llwyddiant amrywiol. Bob tro y mae Llywodraeth wedi buddsoddi arian, mae Llywodraeth ganlynol wedi'i dorri a cheisio'i ad-drefnu. Mae arnom angen i Lywodraeth y DU fuddsoddi o ddifrif yn ein seilwaith trafnidiaeth gyhoeddus a pheidio â’i leihau, a rhoi’r arian sydd ei angen arnom a’n cyfran deg i Gymru. Hefyd, mae arnom angen i Trafnidiaeth Cymru reoli disgwyliadau a bod yn agored iawn gyda'r wybodaeth ddiweddaraf, fel y gallant fynd â phobl gyda nhw ar y daith a rheoli disgwyliadau. Diolch.

17:55

Mae trenau wedi bod yn rhan o fy mywyd i erioed, o wneud cacennau mwd wrth y lein oedd yn mynd reit drwy ganol fy mhentref, i deithio ar y trên olaf aeth ar y lein honno ar ddiwedd y 1960au, pan ddaeth bwyell Beeching. Camgymeriad enfawr oedd gweithred Beeching o ddryllio'r rhwydwaith trenau, fel mae pawb yn ei gydnabod erbyn hyn. Mae gennym ni bellach wasanaeth trenau eilradd, annerbyniol yng Nghymru.

Yn gyd-destun i hyn mae blynyddoedd hir o ddiffyg buddsoddiad yn yr isadeiledd ers cyfnod Beeching—diffyg buddsoddi yn y traciau a'r signalau gan Network Rail. Un ar ddeg y cant o draciau, 1 y cant o'r buddsoddiad—mae hyn yn dweud y cyfan am esgeulustod dybryd y wladwriaeth Brydeinig o anghenion Cymru. Ac yna'r camgymeriad mawr yn 2005, y penderfyniad rhyfedd iawn gan Lywodraeth Cymru i beidio â derbyn y cynnig o ddatganoli'r isadeiledd i Gymru. Sut fedrwch chi greu system newydd pan fo dim ond hanner y pwerau gennych chi? Mae hi fel gwneud cacen efo dim ond hanner y cynhwysion—cacen fwd, efallai.

Mae'n rhaid gweld datgnoli'r isadeiledd i Gymru. Dydy hynny ddim ar agendau'r pleidiau unoliaethol, ond fe fydd Plaid Cymru yn parhau i wneud y ddadl honno. Byddwn ni'n parhau hefyd i ddadlau dros ein cyfran deg o arian HS2, er mwyn buddsoddi mewn system drafnidiaeth gyhoeddus integredig a safonol. Mi fyddwn ni'n parhau i ddadlau dros gysylltu ein gwlad—o'r de i'r gogledd, gyda rhwydwaith bwrpasol o drenau a bysiau. Mi fyddwn ni'n parhau i ddadlau dros ail-greu lein trên lawr y gorllewin, fel nad oes yn rhaid inni fynd allan o'n gwlad er mwyn teithio ar drên o un pen i'r llall; dros uchelgais, dros drenau modern, ffit i bwrpas ar gyfer ein pobl, a'r rhai sy'n ymweld i fwynhau ein tirwedd a'n harfordir hardd ar drên.

Yn y cyfamser, mae hi'n bum mlynedd ers i Drafnidiaeth Cymru gymryd drosodd gan Drenau Arriva Cymru—datblygiad pwysig i'w gymeradwyo. Dyna oedd sefydlu'r corff a gwladoli'r gwasanaeth. Ac mae yna sawl elfen bositif wedi dod yn sgil hynny—gwell amodau gwaith i'r gweithwyr, gwasanaeth sy'n arddel dwy iaith ein gwlad mewn ffordd weladwy a chlywadwy, mwy o wasanaethau ar gael, a'r gallu i ailfuddsoddi'r elw.

Ond, ond, ond, mae'n ddyletswydd arnaf i ar ran fy etholwyr i dynnu sylw at y problemau, ac, i adrodd o brofiad cyson fel defnyddiwr rheolaidd o'r gwasanaeth o Fangor i Gaerdydd, dydy o ddim digon da o bell ffordd: oedi, canslo cyson, diffyg glanweithdra, gwresogi annibynadwy—mae'n rhy oer neu mae'n rhy boeth—ac, yn ddiweddar, dim digon o le i bawb fedru eistedd, dim digon o gerbydau i ymateb i'r galw a dydy'r cerbydau presennol sy'n rhedeg o'r de i'r gogledd ddim digon da ar gyfer siwrneiau hir. Dwi'n llygadu efo eiddigedd rhai o'r trenau sydd ar lein y Rhymni, a da gweld rheini. Dwi'n llygadu'r trenau sy'n mynd i Lundain, a dwi hefyd yn gweld y rhai sy'n weithredol ar draws Ewrop ac yn cenfigennu. Does dim rhyfedd felly, nac oes, fod Trafnidiaeth Cymru efo'r graddfeydd boddhad cwsmeriaid isaf o holl brif weithredwyr rheilffyrdd y gwledydd yma. Mae'n rhaid i ni gadw at yr amserlen ar gyfer y gwella ac uwchraddio'r stoc erbyn 2024.

Trains have been part of my life since I can remember, from making mud pies by the line that travelled right through the middle of my village, to travelling on the final train that used that line at the end of the 1960s, when the Beeching axe fell—a huge mistake in destroying the train network, as everyone now recognises. We now have a second-rate, unacceptable train service in Wales.

As a context to this, there have been long years of a lack of investment in infrastructure since the days of Beeching—a lack of infrastructure in tracks and signals by Network Rail. Eleven per cent of the track, 1 per cent of the investment—this says it all about the grave neglect of the British state of the needs of Wales. And then the major mistake in 2005, the very strange decision by the Welsh Government not to accept the offer of devolution of infrastructure to Wales. How can you create a new system when you have only half the powers? It's like making a pie with only half the ingredients—a mud pie, perhaps.

We have to see infrastructure devolved to Wales. That isn't on the agenda of the unionist parties, but Plaid Cymru will continue to make that case. We will also continue to argue for our fair share of HS2 funding in order to invest in an integrated high-quality public transport system. We will continue to make the case for connecting our nation—from north to south, with a proper network of buses and trains. We will continue to make the case for re-establishing a train line down the west of our country, so that we don't have to leave the country to travel on a train from one end of the country to another; for ambition, for modern trains, which are fit for purpose for our people, and those who visit us to enjoy our beautiful landscapes and coasts on the trains.

In the meantime, it's five years since Transport for Wales took over from Arriva Trains Wales—an important development that is to be applauded. That's what establishing the body and nationalising the service was. And there have been several positives as a result of that—better working conditions for the staff, a service that espouses both our national languages in visible and audible ways, more services available, and the ability to reinvest profits. 

But, but, but, I am duty-bound on behalf of my constituents to highlight the problems, and to report from regular experience as a regular user of the train service from Bangor to Cardiff, it is not good enough by a long chalk: delays, regular cancellations, poor hygiene, heating that is unreliable—it's either too cold or too hot—and recently there hasn't been enough space for everyone to sit, not enough carriages to meet demand, and the current carriages running from north to south aren't fit for purpose for lengthy journeys. I look enviously at some of the trains running on the Rhymney line, and it's good to see those. I look enviously at the trains travelling to London, and I also see those operational across Europe and I'm envious of them. It's no surprise, therefore, that Transport of Wales has the worst customer ratings of all the train operators in these nations. We have to stick to the timetable for improving and upgrading the rolling stock by 2024.

18:00

Fuaset ti'n cymryd ymyriad yn sydyn? 

Would you take a quick intervention? 

Rydym ni mewn cyfnod lle rydym ni yn poeni am niferoedd sy'n defnyddio trenau. Mae o'n bryder go iawn gen i fod y profiad mae pobl yn ei gael ar drenau sy'n rhedeg rhwng y de a'r gogledd, yn gorfod newid yng Nghaer ar siwrneiau syth drwodd, ac ati, yn gwneud i bobl benderfynu peidio cymryd y trên—fy merch fy hun ar ôl y ddwy siwrnai ddiwethaf lawr i Gaerdydd yn dweud 'Dwi'm yn gwneud hyn ar drên eto'. Dydyn ni ddim yn mynd i ddenu pobl i ddefnyddio'r trên.

We are in a time where we are concerned about the numbers of people using the train service. It's a genuine concern of mine that the experience that people have on the trains running between north and south Wales, having to change in Chester on straight-through journeys, and so on, makes people decide not to take the train—my own daughter, after her last two journeys to Cardiff, said, 'I'm not going to do that by train again'. We're not going to attract people to use the train. 

Dy ferch, etholwyr di-rif yn dod ataf i yn dweud hynny—eu bod nhw wedi cael profiadau mor ddiflas na fyddan nhw'n mentro mynd ar y trên eto. Dwi'n dal ati. Dwi'n ffyddiog bod pethau yn mynd i wella, ond mae angen gwirioneddol rŵan rhoi'r ymdrech fawr yna i fewn i'r gwella yna er mwyn i ni fedru cyrraedd at sefyllfa lle rydym ni'n falch o'r gwasanaeth trên sydd gennym ni yma yng Nghymru, fel bod ni'n gallu meddwl ymlaen i'r dyfodol, a meddwl yn hyderus fod gennym ni rywbeth i fod yn wirioneddol falch ohono fo i'r dyfodol.

Like your daughter, many constituents come to me and say the same—that they've had such depressing experiences that they wouldn't use the train again. I continue to use the service, and I'm confident that things will improve, but we now truly need to put that major effort into those improvements so that we can get to a position where we are proud of our train service here in Wales, so that we can think to the future and be confident that we have something that we can be truly proud of for the future.

I'd like to start the debate just by saying that, apart from the reference to the UK Government, I thought Carolyn Thomas's contribution—. It even made me think of things that I hadn't thought about. And, of course, our colleague Siân Gwenllian has gone back a bit. Well, a couple of confessions here. I've held my driving licence for 46 years. I love zipping around in my car and woe betide anyone who tries to tell me that I can't. However, I have been listening to our Deputy Minister because, quite frankly, when the trains are running, it's a much better alternative north to south in a train, where you can work, you're not interrupted by people calling you. Well, they do interrupt by calling, but it's easier to answer when you're on a train, where there's a signal, that is.

But the point being is that I have listened to you, Deputy Minister, and I want to use the train service. I want to use Transport for Wales, but the number of complaints coming in—. Now, I've been here 12 years, and, I have to tell you, it was pretty good then compared to what we have now. I remember on one occasion, in my first term, when they'd undercalculated for the amounts of people going to a football or a rugby match, and it was chaos. And I recall at the time contacting somebody in Arriva Wales, Ben Davies, well known to people in the rail industry at the time. And I remember—this was absolutely awful—he took my word for it and he put another carriage on at Chester to help with the people fighting to get on the train. It was awful. But that was one bad experience in five years, but now, as regular followers of Janet's travel journals on social media will know, you know when I'm having a bad journey. But quite often—more often than not, sadly—we see passengers crammed on, no seats, no trolleys. And it might sound a bit feeble, 'no trolleys', but, in the summer, on these new trains with no windows, if you've forgotten to get a bottle of water, even, you can feel quite ill at the end of a journey in excessive temperatures. Terrible Wi-Fi. Only 57 per cent of services arriving on time. And it's not just me complaining, as we've heard today. Twenty-two per cent of people in Wales believe their train services are bad; that's the highest in Britain. The latest figures for Transport for Wales services specifically show that customer satisfaction has fallen 15 percentage points.

Despite a target to introduce 77 new trains by this period, just 34 have been delivered, and we have had lots of promises, Lee Waters. I've been quite patient: 'It's going to get better. It's going to get better', and we keep waiting. But at the same time as we've had the 77 new trains—and they're not all running, I can tell you—we've had some taken away from us. I was with my colleague Siân Gwenllian one day when we saw all those parked up at Crewe, if you recall. And so I question why they're there, and why they're not on the lines.

When we even have the First Minister confirming that TfW has fallen behind target, there's no disputing the disastrousness of the current train service. I am a very passionate advocate of the Conwy valley railway line, but TfW and the Deputy Minister for Climate Change do refuse to allow progress to take place. Campaigning for a direct service from Blaenau Ffestiniog to Manchester airport would be brilliant. I've campaigned for a late-evening train service from Llandudno to Blaenau so that those people living in our valley can actually access jobs, access the pub, if they want to go to the pub in the evening. But you've said, Minister,

'Transport for Wales have recently considered passenger demand across the network, including on the Conwy Valley Line. The final evening service departs from Blaenau Ffestiniog at 20:27 and arrives at Llandudno at 21:44. There are no plans to operate a later service on this line.'

Now, whilst I acknowledge the 20:27 train travelling north, we need something far later than that going south. There is no other public transport until the morning. We don't have a bus service.

Along the valley, we've had serious concerns that TfW conductors are not providing passengers with tickets for their journey, especially those who qualify for free travel. So, I'm going to ask you, Minister, to explain the rationale behind having a train service whereby you don't know how many people are actually travelling on that train. The failure to issue a ticket means that the passengers are not travelling in accordance with section 6.1 of the national rail conditions of travel, applicable from 6 February 2022. The line has had a bus substitution in place on 244 days during the last two financial years, and, on 18 days, there were no rail or replacement bus services, only three of which were due to extreme weather conditions. So, the others were just bad performance. So, TfW are failing the Conwy valley line. They're failing those very people who want to use your public transport, and too often I've heard the First Minister, I've heard you, say, 'Oh, pandemic levels—we can't get back up.' If, as has been said here quite clearly, it's a bad service, people do it once or twice and then they give up. They'll resort back to the car. So, really—

Hoffwn ddechrau'r ddadl hon drwy ddweud, ar wahân i'r cyfeiriad at Lywodraeth y DU, fy mod i'n meddwl bod cyfraniad Carolyn Thomas—. Roedd yn gwneud i mi feddwl am bethau nad oeddwn i wedi meddwl amdanynt. Ac wrth gwrs, mae ein cyd-Aelod Siân Gwenllian wedi mynd yn ôl ychydig. Wel, mae gennyf gyfaddefiad neu ddau i'w wneud. Mae fy nhrwydded yrru wedi bod gennyf ers 46 mlynedd. Rwyf wrth fy modd yn gyrru o gwmpas yn fy nghar a gwae unrhyw un sy'n ceisio dweud wrthyf na chaf. Fodd bynnag, rwyf wedi bod yn gwrando ar ein Dirprwy Weinidog oherwydd, a dweud y gwir, pan fo'r trenau'n rhedeg, mae'n ddewis llawer gwell teithio o'r gogledd i'r de mewn trên, lle gallwch weithio, lle nad yw pobl yn tarfu arnoch drwy ffonio. Wel, maent yn tarfu arnoch drwy ffonio, ond mae'n haws ateb pan fyddwch chi ar drên, lle ceir signal, hynny yw.

Ond y pwynt yw fy mod i wedi gwrando arnoch chi, Ddirprwy Weinidog, ac rwyf eisiau defnyddio'r gwasanaeth trên. Rwyf eisiau defnyddio Trafnidiaeth Cymru, ond mae nifer y cwynion sy'n dod i mewn—. Nawr, rwyf wedi bod yma ers 12 mlynedd, ac mae'n rhaid imi ddweud, roedd yn eithaf da bryd hynny o'i gymharu â'r hyn sydd gennym nawr. Rwy'n cofio ar un achlysur, yn fy nhymor cyntaf, pan oeddent wedi tangyfrifo faint o bobl oedd yn mynd i gêm bêl-droed neu rygbi, ac roedd yna anhrefn. Ac rwy'n cofio cysylltu â rhywun yn Arriva Cymru ar y pryd, Ben Davies, a oedd yn adnabyddus i bobl yn y diwydiant rheilffyrdd ar y pryd. Ac rwy'n cofio—roedd hyn yn hollol ofnadwy—fe wnaeth fy nghredu ac fe ychwanegodd gerbyd arall yng Nghaer i helpu gyda'r bobl a oedd yn ymladd i fynd ar y trên. Roedd yn ofnadwy. Ond roedd hwnnw'n un profiad gwael mewn pum mlynedd, ond nawr, fel y bydd dilynwyr rheolaidd cofnod teithio Janet ar y cyfryngau cymdeithasol yn ei wybod, fe fyddwch yn gwybod pan fyddaf yn cael taith wael. Ond yn eithaf aml—yn amlach na pheidio, yn anffodus—gwelwn deithwyr yn cael eu gwasgu i mewn, dim seddi, dim troli. Ac efallai ei fod yn swnio braidd yn wan, 'dim troli', ond yn yr haf, ar y trenau newydd hyn heb ffenestri, os ydych chi wedi anghofio prynu potel o ddŵr, hyd yn oed, gallwch deimlo'n eithaf sâl ar ddiwedd taith mewn tymereddau poeth. Wi-Fi ofnadwy. Dim ond 57 y cant o'r gwasanaethau sy'n cyrraedd ar amser. Ac nid fi'n unig sy'n cwyno, fel y clywsom heddiw. Mae 22 y cant o bobl Cymru yn credu bod eu gwasanaethau trên yn wael; dyna'r ganran uchaf ym Mhrydain. Mae'r ffigurau diweddaraf ar gyfer gwasanaethau Trafnidiaeth Cymru yn dangos yn benodol fod bodlonrwydd cwsmeriaid wedi gostwng 15 pwynt canran.

Er gwaethaf targed i gyflwyno 77 o drenau newydd erbyn y cyfnod hwn, dim ond 34 sydd wedi'u darparu, ac rydym wedi cael llawer o addewidion, Lee Waters. Rwyf wedi bod yn eithaf amyneddgar: 'Bydd yn gwella. Bydd yn gwella', ac rydym yn parhau i aros. Ond ar yr un pryd ag y cawsom y 77 trên newydd—ac nid ydynt i gyd yn rhedeg, gallaf ddweud wrthych—mae rhai wedi cael eu cymryd oddi arnom. Roeddwn gyda fy nghyd-Aelod Siân Gwenllian un diwrnod pan welson lwyth ohonynt wedi eu parcio yn Crewe, os ydych chi'n cofio. Ac felly rwy'n cwestiynu pam eu bod yno, a pham nad ydynt ar y rheilffyrdd.

Pan fo hyd yn oed y Prif Weinidog yn cadarnhau bod Trafnidiaeth Cymru ar ei hôl hi gyda'r targed, ni ellir gwadu bod y gwasanaeth trên presennol yn drychinebus. Rwy'n un o gefnogwyr brwd rheilffordd dyffryn Conwy, ond mae Trafnidiaeth Cymru a'r Dirprwy Weinidog Newid Hinsawdd yn gwrthod caniatáu i gynnydd ddigwydd. Byddai ymgyrchu dros wasanaeth uniongyrchol o Flaenau Ffestiniog i faes awyr Manceinion yn wych. Rwyf wedi ymgyrchu am wasanaeth trên hwyr gyda'r nos o Landudno i Flaenau Ffestiniog fel y gall y bobl sy'n byw yn ein dyffryn ni gael mynediad at swyddi, at dafarn, os ydynt eisiau mynd i'r dafarn gyda'r nos. Ond rydych chi wedi dweud, Weinidog,

'Yn ddiweddar, fe wnaeth Trafnidiaeth Cymru ystyried y galw gan deithwyr ar draws y rhwydwaith, gan gynnwys y galw ar Reilffordd Dyffryn Conwy. Mae'r gwasanaeth olaf gyda'r nos yn gadael Blaenau Ffestiniog am 20:27 ac yn cyrraedd Llandudno am 21:44. Nid oes unrhyw gynlluniau i weithredu gwasanaeth hwyrach ar y rheilffordd hon.'

Nawr, er fy mod yn cydnabod y trên 20:27 sy'n teithio i'r gogledd, rydym angen rhywbeth llawer hwyrach na hynny sy'n teithio i'r de. Nid oes trafnidiaeth gyhoeddus arall tan y bore. Nid oes gennym wasanaeth bws.

Ar hyd a lled y dyffryn, rydym wedi clywed pryderon difrifol nad yw tocynwyr Trafnidiaeth Cymru yn darparu tocynnau i deithwyr ar gyfer eu taith, yn enwedig y rhai sy'n gymwys i deithio am ddim. Felly, Weinidog, hoffwn ofyn i chi esbonio'r rhesymeg y tu ôl i gael gwasanaeth trên lle nad ydych yn gwybod faint o bobl sy'n teithio ar y trên hwnnw mewn gwirionedd. Mae'r methiant i ddarparu tocyn yn golygu nad yw'r teithwyr yn teithio yn unol ag adran 6.1 o amodau teithio rheilffyrdd cenedlaethol, a ddaeth i rym ar 6 Chwefror 2022. Mae gwasanaeth bws yn lle trenau wedi bod ar waith ar 244 diwrnod dros y ddwy flynedd ariannol ddiwethaf, ac ar 18 diwrnod, nid oedd unrhyw wasanaeth trenau na gwasanaeth bws yn lle trenau, a dim ond tri ohonynt oedd oherwydd tywydd garw. Felly, perfformiad gwael oedd y rheswm dros y lleill. Felly, mae Trafnidiaeth Cymru gwneud cam â defnyddwyr rheilffordd dyffryn Conwy. Maent yn gwneud cam â'r union bobl sydd eisiau defnyddio eich trafnidiaeth gyhoeddus, ac yn rhy aml rwyf wedi clywed y Prif Weinidog, rwyf wedi eich clywed chi, yn dweud, 'O, lefelau pandemig—ni allwn eu codi yn ôl i fyny.' Fel y dywedwyd yma yn eithaf clir, os yw'r gwasanaeth yn wael bydd pobl yn ei ddefnyddio unwaith neu ddwy ac yna byddant yn rhoi'r ffidil yn y to. Byddant yn troi'n ôl at y car. Felly—

18:05

I've been very generous with time, Janet Finch-Saunders, so can you come to a conclusion?

Rwyf wedi bod yn hael iawn gydag amser, Janet Finch-Saunders, felly a wnewch chi ddirwyn i ben?

Okay. So, really, just listen to us, Deputy Minister. We want some assurances that we're going to actually have a safe and secure and pleasurable journey when we come to use the train service. Diolch yn fawr.

Iawn. Felly, gwrandewch arnom, Ddirprwy Weinidog. Rydym eisiau sicrwydd y cawn daith ddiogel a phleserus pan fyddwn yn defnyddio'r gwasanaeth trên. Diolch yn fawr.

Y Dirprwy Weinidog nawr i gyfrannu i'r ddadl—Lee Waters. 

The Deputy Minister now to reply to the debate—Lee Waters. 

Diolch yn fawr, Llywydd. Just before moving on to address some of the specific points raised during the debate, I want to address head on any confusion as to why this £125 million has been allocated towards Transport for Wales. Just to be clear, this is not a bail-out, as some have characterised it. This is not about providing new funding for rail at the expense of buses, as others have said. We have provided an extra £46 million for bus this year, which we'd already announced, so it's wrong to say that there's no additional funding for buses. And this isn't down to financial mismanagement on the part of TfW or the Welsh Government, for that matter. Very simply, when we awarded the Wales and borders rail franchise to KeolisAmey, it was based on their projection of rapid passenger growth. The numbers were very ambitious, and our budget assumptions were based on those ambitions, and, as we know, COVID blew that out of the water. Indeed, the franchise collapsed. But the numbers remained in the budget. As James Price put it himself recently, we have essentially had three lost years of revenue growth because of COVID-19. Now, that's not unique to Wales. As we've seen, the pandemic also shattered the privatised franchise model for rail in England. The Tory privatisation model of the early 1990s is over. It has failed, just as the model of bus privatisation has failed.

Janet Finch-Saunders mentioned services being withdrawn. Well, the TransPennine service has been cut by more than 6 per cent to manage punctuality, and the promised six trains an hour from Leeds to Manchester cut to three. So, there are challenges right across the rail industry, and I would suggest to the Conservative benches that they ought to have a little more humility and recognise that the challenges we are facing directly flow from their party’s obsession with bringing the free market into public services, and it has failed the public.

The impact of the pandemic on passenger behaviour is now, thankfully, stabilising. I can confirm that ticket revenue has returned to pre-COVID levels. That’s despite the poor recent performance, which has been catalogued, and the fact that many fewer people are commuting during Monday to Friday. And let’s be clear that the poor performance also has its roots in the underinvestment we have seen in new trains and tracks maintenance, which has flowed from Tory rail privatisation. They have to take responsibility for this. This Government, in contrast, is investing in public transport. We have increased services by 80 per cent since 2018. We retired the much-maligned pacers in 2021, after 30 years of service. Last week, we retired the class 175 trains. In December, we will be able to complete the £70 million investment in Ebbw Vale, on time and on budget, for services to go from Ebbw Vale to Newport. That’s joint working between the Welsh Government, Network Rail, TfW and the local council. And the Treherbert line will reopen in the new year, after the biggest investment in its history. Yes, Huw.

Diolch yn fawr, Lywydd. Cyn imi symud ymlaen i fynd i'r afael â rhai o'r pwyntiau penodol a godwyd yn ystod y ddadl, rwyf am egluro unrhyw ddryswch ynghylch pam y dyrannwyd y £125 miliwn hwn i Trafnidiaeth Cymru. I fod yn glir, nid arian i achub eu crwyn yw hwn, fel y mae rhai wedi ei ddarlunio. Nid yw'n ymwneud â darparu cyllid newydd ar gyfer rheilffyrdd ar draul bysiau, fel y mae eraill wedi'i ddweud. Rydym wedi darparu £46 miliwn ychwanegol ar gyfer bysiau eleni, a gyhoeddwyd gennym eisoes, felly mae'n anghywir dweud nad oes cyllid ychwanegol ar gyfer bysiau. Ac nid yw'n gamreolaeth ariannol ar ran Trafnidiaeth Cymru, na Llywodraeth Cymru, o ran hynny. Yn syml iawn, pan wnaethom ddyfarnu masnachfraint rheilffyrdd Cymru a'r gororau i KeolisAmey, roedd yn seiliedig ar eu hamcanestyniad o dwf cyflym yn niferoedd teithwyr. Roedd y niferoedd yn uchelgeisiol iawn, ac roedd ein rhagdybiaethau cyllidebol yn seiliedig ar yr uchelgeisiau hynny, ac fel y gwyddom, cawsant eu chwalu gan COVID. Yn wir, fe chwalodd y fasnachfraint. Ond arhosodd y ffigurau yn y gyllideb. Fel y dywedodd James Price ei hun yn ddiweddar, yn y bôn, rydym wedi colli tair blynedd o dwf refeniw oherwydd COVID-19. Nawr, nid yw hynny'n unigryw i Gymru. Fel y gwelsom, fe wnaeth y pandemig chwalu'r model masnachfraint wedi'i breifateiddio ar gyfer rheilffyrdd yn Lloegr hefyd. Mae model preifateiddio'r Torïaid ar ddechrau'r 1990au wedi dod i ben. Mae wedi methu, yn union fel y mae'r model preifateiddio bysiau wedi methu.

Soniodd Janet Finch-Saunders fod gwasanaethau'n cael eu torri. Wel, mae'r gwasanaeth TransPennine wedi gweld toriad o fwy na 6 y cant i reoli prydlondeb, ac mae'r chwe thrên a gafodd eu haddo bob awr o Leeds i Fanceinion yn cael eu torri i dri. Felly, mae yna heriau ar draws y diwydiant rheilffyrdd, a hoffwn awgrymu wrth feinciau'r Ceidwadwyr y dylent fod ychydig yn fwy gwylaidd a chydnabod bod yr heriau a wynebwn yn deillio'n uniongyrchol o obsesiwn eu plaid gyda dod â'r farchnad rydd i mewn i wasanaethau cyhoeddus, ac mae wedi gwneud cam â'r cyhoedd.

Mae effaith y pandemig ar ymddygiad teithwyr yn sefydlogi bellach, diolch byth. Gallaf gadarnhau bod refeniw tocynnau wedi dychwelyd i lefelau cyn COVID. Mae hynny er gwaethaf y perfformiad gwael diweddar, sydd wedi'i restru, a'r ffaith bod llawer llai o bobl yn cymudo yn ystod dydd Llun i ddydd Gwener. A gadewch inni fod yn glir fod y perfformiad gwael hefyd wedi deillio o'r tanfuddsoddi a welsom mewn trenau newydd a gwaith cynnal a chadw traciau, sydd wedi deillio o breifateiddio'r rheilffyrdd o dan y Torïaid. Mae'n rhaid iddynt gymryd cyfrifoldeb am hyn. Mae'r Llywodraeth hon, mewn cyferbyniad, yn buddsoddi mewn trafnidiaeth gyhoeddus. Rydym wedi cynyddu gwasanaethau 80 y cant ers 2018. Fe wnaethom gael gwared ar y trenau 'pacer' enbyd yn 2021, ar ôl 30 mlynedd o wasanaeth. Yr wythnos diwethaf, fe wnaethom gael gwared ar y trenau dosbarth 175. Ym mis Rhagfyr, byddwn yn gallu cwblhau'r buddsoddiad o £70 miliwn yng Nglyn Ebwy, ar amser ac o fewn y gyllideb, er mwyn i wasanaethau fynd o Lyn Ebwy i Gasnewydd. Mae hwnnw'n waith ar y cyd rhwng Llywodraeth Cymru, Network Rail, Trafnidiaeth Cymru a'r cyngor lleol. A bydd rheilffordd Treherbert yn ailagor yn y flwyddyn newydd, yn dilyn y buddsoddiad mwyaf yn ei hanes. Ie, Huw.

18:10

I thank the Minister for giving way. It's simply to say that you have missed one thing out there, which was the reintroduction of the Sunday service on the Llynfi line for the first time in—. Crikey, we lost it 40 years ago. If you can give us the half-hourly one now as well, we'll erect a statue of you halfway down the line

Diolch i'r Gweinidog am ildio. Roeddwn eisiau dweud eich bod wedi anghofio un peth, sef ailgyflwyno gwasanaeth y Sul ar reilffordd Llynfi am y tro cyntaf mewn—. Nefoedd, fe gollon ni hwnnw 40 mlynedd yn ôl. Os gallwch chi ddarparu'r un bob hanner awr i ni nawr hefyd, fe godwn ni gerflun ohonoch hanner ffordd i lawr y lein.

Well, isn't that tempting. [Laughter.] I have missed out lots of improvements; I just don’t have the time to go through them all. There have been significant improvements because of our investment, even investment in infrastructure, which should be the responsibility of the UK Government, which they have not come forward with.

There is huge untapped potential now to grow passenger numbers as we invest in new trains and more frequent services that will be able to properly integrate with buses when we bring in franchising, as Hefin David mentioned, and game-changing projects like the £1 billion south Wales metro. Having a single ticket, a single network and a single timetable is the promise that bus franchising and TfW integrating the rail timetable together brings us. Delyth.

Wel, am demtasiwn. [Chwerthin.] Rwyf wedi gadael llawer o welliannau allan; nid oes gennyf amser i gyfeirio at bob un. Gwelwyd gwelliannau sylweddol oherwydd ein buddsoddiad, hyd yn oed buddsoddiad mewn seilwaith, a ddylai fod yn gyfrifoldeb i Lywodraeth y DU, ond nid ydynt wedi gwneud hynny.

Ceir potensial enfawr nawr i gynyddu nifer y teithwyr wrth inni fuddsoddi mewn trenau newydd a gwasanaethau amlach a fydd yn gallu integreiddio'n briodol â bysiau pan fyddwn yn cyflwyno masnachfreinio, fel y soniodd Hefin David, a phrosiectau trawsnewidiol fel metro gwerth £1 biliwn de Cymru. Daw masnachfreinio bysiau ac integreiddio'r amserlen rheilffyrdd gan Trafnidiaeth Cymru ag addewid yn ei sgil o un tocyn, un rhwydwaith ac un amserlen. Delyth.

Sorry to interrupt you before you get to the end of the sentence, but would you take an intervention, please?

Mae'n ddrwg gennyf dorri ar eich traws cyn i chi gyrraedd diwedd y frawddeg, ond a wnewch chi dderbyn ymyriad, os gwelwch yn dda?

You were talking about the new trains. Could you just clarify something, Minister, with your amendment? Am I reading it correctly, that you are committing in it to delivering 95 per cent of train services with new trains by the end of this year? It says 'by 2024'. So, that would be 1 January, wouldn't it? That is what it's committing to. 

Roeddech chi'n sôn am y trenau newydd. A allech chi egluro rhywbeth, Weinidog, gyda'ch gwelliant? A wyf fi'n ei ddarllen yn gywir, eich bod yn ymrwymo i ddarparu trenau newydd ar 95 y cant o wasanaethau trên erbyn diwedd eleni? Mae'n dweud 'erbyn 2024'. Felly, 1 Ionawr fyddai hynny, onid e? Dyna beth mae'n ymrwymo i'w wneud. 

Well, I think that the year begins in January, but it goes right to the end of the year. We have had real difficulties with the number of trains delivered to us under contract by the various providers. They are now coming, on average, every seven to 10 days off the production lines and onto the tracks. And, Janet, the reason why there are so many stabled in Crewe is that driver training needs to take place and train testing needs to take place. I know that it's frustrating seeing them sitting there, but you can be assured that they are on the way. As has been mentioned by a number of speakers, when you get to experience them, as I did on Saturday—the new 197s on the Llanelli to Cardiff line—it really is a step change in the difference of experience. It's like travelling first-class.

So, we are facing a series of challenges in transport. There is no doubt about that. COVID, austerity, inflation are all making our task of growing levels of public transport really, really hard. But we are on an a journey and, by 2040, we want to see 45 per cent of journeys being made by public transport, walking and cycling, up from 32 per cent now. That requires system change, and that doesn't happen overnight. But we are now putting in the foundations of a modern rail network and a properly planned and integrated bus system, along with an ambitious approach to active travel. The path is not smooth, but it is clear, and we will get there. And if we are to stop runaway climate change, Llywydd, we must get there.

Wel, rwy'n credu bod y flwyddyn yn dechrau ym mis Ionawr, ond mae'n para hyd at ddiwedd y flwyddyn. Rydym wedi cael anawsterau gwirioneddol gyda nifer y trenau sy'n cael eu darparu i ni dan gontract gan y gwahanol ddarparwyr. Maent bellach yn dod oddi ar y llinellau cynhyrchu ac yn cael eu rhoi ar y cledrau bob saith i 10 diwrnod ar gyfartaledd. A Janet, y rheswm pam fod cymaint ohonynt wedi'u parcio yn Crewe yw oherwydd bod angen cynnal hyfforddiant gyrwyr ac oherwydd bod angen cynnal profion ar drenau. Rwy'n gwybod ei bod yn rhwystredig eu gweld wedi'u parcio yno, ond gallwch fod yn sicr eu bod ar y ffordd. Fel y crybwyllwyd gan nifer o siaradwyr, pan fyddwch yn cael eu profi, fel y gwneuthum ddydd Sadwrn—y trenau 197 newydd ar reilffordd Llanelli i Gaerdydd—mae'n newid sylweddol o ran profiad. Mae fel teithio mewn cerbyd dosbarth cyntaf.

Felly, rydym yn wynebu cyfres o heriau ym maes trafnidiaeth. Nid oes amheuaeth am hynny. Mae COVID, cyni a chwyddiant yn gwneud ein tasg o gynyddu lefelau trafnidiaeth gyhoeddus yn anodd iawn. Ond rydym ar daith, ac erbyn 2040, rydym eisiau gweld 45 y cant o deithiau yn cael eu gwneud ar drafnidiaeth gyhoeddus, cerdded a beicio, i fyny o 32 y cant ar hyn o bryd. Mae hynny'n golygu bod angen newid y system, ac ni fydd hynny'n digwydd dros nos. Ond rydym bellach yn gosod sylfeini rhwydwaith rheilffyrdd modern a system fysiau integredig wedi'i chynllunio'n briodol, ynghyd ag ymagwedd uchelgeisiol tuag at deithio llesol. Nid yw'r llwybr yn llyfn, ond mae'n glir, ac fe fyddwn yn cyrraedd. Ac os ydym am atal newid hinsawdd direolaeth, Lywydd, mae'n rhaid inni gyrraedd.

18:15

Delyth Jewell, nawr, i ymateb i'r ddadl.

Delyth Jewell, now, to reply to the debate.

Diolch, Llywydd. Diolch i bawb sydd wedi cymryd rhan yn ein dadl.

Thank you, Llywydd. And thank you to everyone who has taken part in our debate.

Natasha opened by paying tribute, as well, to front-line TfW staff—that is welcome. I think it's really important to put that on the record whenever we do discuss these issues. Natasha then set out that the problem is to do with reliability and accessibility, setting out that there are seven rail stations in Wales that have no disabled access. That may be in the purview of Network Rail, but whoever is responsible, it is a shocking state of affairs, and it's not acceptable. 

Hefin, that was a lovely train journey that we shared together from Abercynon. Hefin set out the progress seen on the Rhymney line—again, I do welcome that. What we were told is that we would start to see progress immediately. I counter that many passengers aren't seeing that, but I hope, Hefin, that, next time we share a journey from Abercynon, it will be on a new train.

Agorodd Natasha drwy dalu teyrnged, hefyd, i staff rheng flaen Trafnidiaeth Cymru—mae hynny i'w groesawu. Rwy'n credu ei bod yn bwysig iawn cofnodi hynny pan fyddwn yn trafod y materion hyn. Yna nododd Natasha fod y broblem yn ymwneud â dibynadwyedd a hygyrchedd, gan nodi bod saith gorsaf reilffordd yng Nghymru heb fynediad ar gyfer pobl anabl. Efallai fod hynny'n rhan o gyfrifoldeb Network Rail, ond pwy bynnag sy'n gyfrifol, mae'n sefyllfa ofnadwy, ac nid yw'n dderbyniol. 

Hefin, roedd y daith drên a rennais gyda chi o Abercynon yn hyfryd. Nododd Hefin y cynnydd a welwyd ar linell Rhymni—unwaith eto, rwy'n croesawu hynny. Yr hyn a ddywedwyd wrthym yw y byddem yn dechrau gweld cynnydd ar unwaith. Rwy'n dadlau fod llawer o deithwyr nad ydynt yn gweld y cynnydd hwnnw, ond Hefin, y tro nesaf y byddwn yn rhannu taith o Abercynon, rwy'n gobeithio y byddwn ar drên newydd.

Adleisiodd Heledd yr un gobaith yna, ond mae peryg, fel y dywedodd hi, y bydd goraddo a thangyflawni. Croesawodd hi'r gwaith sy'n digwydd, ond mae sgileffeithiau—gan gynnwys, yn arbennig, i'r bobl sydd yn byw yn y Rhondda, achos y ffaith bod dim trenau'n mynd i Dreherbert—colli apwyntiadau meddygol, colli swyddi a'r ffaith nad ydy'r gwasanaethau bws amgen sydd yna'n gweithio'n dda. Felly, roedd hynna'n siomedig i glywed, ond rwy'n meddwl ei bod hi'n rili bwysig ein bod ni'n clywed hynna yn y ddadl.

Heledd echoed that same hope, but there is a danger, as she said, that there will be overpromising and underdelivery. She welcomed the work that is being done, but there are impacts—including, particularly, for people living in the Rhondda, because there are no trains currently running to Treherbert—of missing medical appointments, losing jobs and the fact that the alternative bus services aren't working very well. That was very disappointing to hear, but it's very important that we did hear that in the debate.

Tom set out some of the challenging figures for TfW on low customer satisfaction. I counter, Tom, that taxpayers' money should be invested in public transport, in public services—that's what our taxes are for. And then, as for the rest of your contribution—oh, Tom, the attempts of the Tories to shift the narrative towards 20 mph are seemingly inexhaustible, but I was glad that Heledd intervened to ask whether the Tories think that this Government has any role to tackle the climate crisis. If we keep driving only, we will drive ourselves over the cliff. Now, this is a serious debate and I think it deserves better than trying to twist it always back to other debates.

Nododd Tom rai o'r ffigurau heriol i Trafnidiaeth Cymru ar foddhad isel cwsmeriaid. Rwy'n dadlau, Tom, y dylid buddsoddi arian trethdalwyr mewn trafnidiaeth gyhoeddus, mewn gwasanaethau cyhoeddus—dyna bwrpas ein trethi. Ac o ran gweddill eich cyfraniad—o, Tom, mae'n ymddangos bod ymdrechion y Torïaid i symud y naratif tuag at 20 mya yn ddihysbydd, ond roeddwn yn falch fod Heledd wedi ymyrryd i ofyn a yw'r Torïaid yn credu bod gan y Llywodraeth hon unrhyw rôl i fynd i'r afael â'r argyfwng hinsawdd. Os byddwn yn parhau i ddim ond gyrru, byddwn yn gyrru ein hunain dros y dibyn. Nawr, mae hon yn ddadl ddifrifol ac rwy'n credu ei bod yn haeddu gwell na'ch ymgais i'w throi'n ôl at ddadleuon eraill drwy'r amser.

Soniodd Cefin am ardaloedd cefn gwlad, sydd heb gysylltiadau trenau ac sydd yn ddibynnol ar fysys. Mynnodd Cefin wybod pam nad oedd mwy o arian cyfatebol sydd ar gael yn mynd i fysys. Fel yr oedd e'n dweud, mae cysgod Beeching ar yr ardaloedd hynny yn hir, ac ar ein gwlad. Dim ond trwy gael pwerau llawn, soniodd Cefin, y bydd sicrwydd o gael y buddsoddiad angenrheidiol yn ein systemau trafnidiaeth gyhoeddus. Mae ein trenau ni i gyd, neu'n traciau ni i gyd, yn rhedeg i wlad arall—y traciau mawr. Mae'n amser i ni gael ffordd newydd, yn sicr.

Cefin talked about rural areas, which don't have rail connections and are dependent on buses. Cefin wanted to know why more match funding wasn't going to buses. He said that Beeching casts a long shadow on these areas. It's only by having those full powers, as Cefin said, that we can have certainty of having the investment, too, in our public transport systems. All of our tracks run towards another country—those main lines. It's time that we find a new path.

Now, Carolyn shared how her own stories that she's experienced of overcrowded trains, of broken-down trains, cancellations and the delay in rolling out the new trains has been dispiriting for many of her constituents. And I agree with what Carolyn was saying, that managing expectations is important, but she praised the helpfulness of staff at platforms. And she set out how, again, the lack of funding is having a detrimental effect on our lines.

Nawr, rhannodd Carolyn ei straeon am ei phrofiad o drenau gorlawn, trenau sydd wedi torri, wedi'u canslo a'r oedi cyn cyflwyno trenau newydd a'r ffordd y mae hynny wedi bod yn ddigalon i lawer o'i hetholwyr. Ac rwy'n cytuno â'r hyn a ddywedodd Carolyn, fod rheoli disgwyliadau'n bwysig, ond roedd hi'n canmol cymwynasgarwch staff ar blatfformau. Ac unwaith eto, nododd y modd y mae diffyg cyllid yn cael effaith niweidiol ar ein rheilffyrdd.

Rhannodd Siân atgofion o'i bywyd ar y trenau, gan gynnwys y cacennau mwd—rwy'n meddwl roeddwn i'n arfer creu cacennau mwd yn yr ardd, ac mae'n debyg roeddwn i'n arfer eu taflu nhw wrth wal y tŷ a byddai mam yn mynd yn wallgof am y peth. Ond esgeulustod y wladwriaeth Brydeinig sydd wrth wraidd ein problemau, fel y soniodd hi. Dyna ddigwyddodd gyda Beeching a dyna beth sy'n digwydd hyd at bolisïau heddiw. Roeddwn i'n rili hoffi'r trosiad yma—neu beth bynnag ydy 'simile' yn Gymraeg—mae cael dim ond rhai pwerau yr un peth â cheisio creu cacen gyda hanner y cynhwysion—neu gacen fwd. Roeddwn i'n rili hoffi'r simile hwnnw.

Siân shared memories of her life on the trains, including the mud pies—I remember I used to make mud pies in the garden and I used to throw them against the wall of the house and mum would get so angry with me. But it's the neglect of the British state, that's what's at the heart of our problems. That’s what happened with Beeching and that's what's happening to this day. I really liked that metaphor, that image, or the simile that you used, that having just a few powers is the same as trying to bake a cake with half the ingredients—or a mud pie. I really like that idea.

Janet also took us on a trip down memory lane, and she said that, when the trains run, it's a much better way of travelling. I agree with you. Though, from Janet's experience of being on hot trains with no trolley, no Wi-Fi, no toilets that are working—that happens too often. And she raised the need for services to run later in the evening.

Now, the Deputy Minister set out why the £125 million extra has been invested in TfW, setting out that COVID has led to lost revenue growth. I would question why those figures, then, weren't revised more quickly, because, as Carolyn said, expectation management is vital with something like this. But I agree, privatisation has failed, which is why we need this new system to work. It was a shame to hear that the 95 per cent target will not be by 2024, but by the end of 2024, but I do look forward to those new trains when they come in. I was waiting to see who would be the first to use the phrase, 'We're on a journey' in this debate, so I was glad that we did get that from the Deputy Minister.

Now, I said earlier, Llywydd—[Interruption.] Yes, we are on the right track. [Laughter.]

Rhannodd Janet ei hatgofion â ni hefyd, a dywedodd fod trenau'n ffordd lawer gwell o deithio pan fo'r trenau'n rhedeg. Rwy'n cytuno â chi. Er, o brofiad Janet o fod ar drenau poeth heb droli, na Wi-Fi, na thoiledau sy'n gweithio—mae hynny'n digwydd yn rhy aml. A chododd yr angen am wasanaethau sy'n rhedeg yn hwyrach gyda'r nos.

Nawr, nododd y Dirprwy Weinidog pam fod £125 miliwn ychwanegol wedi'i fuddsoddi yn Trafnidiaeth Cymru, gan nodi bod COVID wedi arwain at golli twf refeniw. Rwy'n cwestiynu felly pam na chafodd y ffigurau hynny eu diwygio'n gyflymach, oherwydd, fel y dywedodd Carolyn, mae rheoli disgwyliadau'n hanfodol gyda rhywbeth fel hyn. Ond rwy'n cytuno, mae preifateiddio wedi methu, a dyna pam mae angen i'r system newydd hon weithio. Roedd yn drueni clywed na fydd y targed o 95 y cant yn cael ei gyrraedd erbyn 2024, ond erbyn diwedd 2024, ond rwy'n edrych ymlaen at weld y trenau newydd hynny pan fyddant yn dod. Roeddwn yn aros i weld pwy fyddai'r cyntaf i ddefnyddio'r ymadrodd, 'Rydym ar daith' yn y ddadl hon, felly roeddwn yn falch ein bod wedi'i gael gan y Dirprwy Weinidog.

Nawr, dywedais yn gynharach, Lywydd—[Torri ar draws.] Ydym, rydym ar y llwybr cywir. [Chwerthin.]

18:20

See, they just write themselves. [Laughter.] As the groans start, then, I will draw to a close. I said earlier, Llywydd, that for as long as another country sets the limits on our transport policy, Wales will be at a standstill. Now, we need to ensure that Wales, for example, gets the £8.6 million from last week's bus funding announcement. The Treasury has claimed that that isn't due to us. We need a funding settlement that's based on need, which is a point that Ben Lake and many others have been making. It's not too late for us to act, to demand those powers for ourselves, to ensure there won't be another scandal like HS2, that where we're headed is something we decide, so that we can take, finally, those long-awaited first steps. It was Terry Pratchett who said that

'Every step is a first step if it's a step in the right direction.'

And we know what direction is the right one for us. I don't want Wales to stay stuck waiting for the last train in this dead-end station on a line to nowhere. We can't wait for that train to leave us stranded on the platform. On our current trajectory, Wales will stay reliant on services that are late, overcrowded or cancelled. We are going nowhere fast. As a nation it is time we took our next first step, that next inevitable step. It is time we changed our course; our destination is waiting for us.

Maen nhw'n llifo. [Chwerthin.] Wrth i'r griddfan ddechrau, rwyf am ddirwyn i ben. Dywedais yn gynharach, Lywydd, cyhyd â bod gwlad arall yn gosod y cyfyngiadau ar ein polisi trafnidiaeth, bydd Cymru'n sefyll yn ei hunfan. Nawr, mae angen inni sicrhau bod Cymru, er enghraifft, yn cael y £8.6 miliwn o'r cyhoeddiad ar gyllid bysiau yr wythnos diwethaf. Mae'r Trysorlys wedi honni nad yw hwnnw'n ddyledus i ni. Mae arnom angen setliad ariannu sy'n seiliedig ar angen, sy'n bwynt y mae Ben Lake a llawer o rai eraill wedi bod yn ei wneud. Nid yw'n rhy hwyr i ni weithredu, i hawlio'r pwerau hynny i ni ein hunain, i sicrhau na fydd sgandal arall fel HS2, a sicrhau mai ni sy'n penderfynu i ba gyfeiriad rydym yn mynd, fel y gallwn gymryd y camau cyntaf hirddisgwyliedig hynny o'r diwedd. Terry Pratchett a ddywedodd

'Mae pob cam yn gam cyntaf os yw'n gam i'r cyfeiriad cywir.'

Ac rydym yn gwybod pa gyfeiriad sy'n iawn i ni. Nid wyf eisiau i Gymru orfod aros am y trên olaf mewn gorsaf bengaead ar reilffordd i unman. Ni allwn aros i'r trên hwnnw ein gadael ar y platfform. Ar ein llwybr presennol, bydd Cymru'n parhau i ddibynnu ar wasanaethau sy'n hwyr, yn orlawn neu'n cael eu canslo. Rydym ar daith i unlle. Fel cenedl, mae'n bryd inni gymryd ein cam cyntaf nesaf, y cam anochel nesaf. Mae'n bryd inni newid ein llwybr; mae ein cyrchfan yn aros amdanom ni.

Y cwestiwn yw: a ddylid derbyn y cynnig heb ei ddiwygio? A oes unrhyw Aelod yn gwrthwynebu? [Gwrthwynebiad.] Oes, mae yna wrthwynebiad, felly gwnawn ni ohirio'r pleidleisiau ar yr eitem yma tan y cyfnod pleidleisio.

The proposal is to agree the motion without amendment. Does any Member object? [Objection.] There are objections. We will therefore defer voting under this item until voting time.

Gohiriwyd y pleidleisio tan y cyfnod pleidleisio.

Voting deferred until voting time.

8. Cyfnod Pleidleisio
8. Voting Time

Rŷn ni'n cyrraedd y cyfnod pleidleisio, ac oni bai bod tri Aelod yn gofyn i fi ganu'r gloch, fe wnawn ni symud yn syth i'r bleidlais gyntaf. Mae'r bleidlais honno ar eitem 6, sef dadl y Ceidwadwyr Cymreig ar ddata perfformiad adrannau damweiniau ac achosion brys. Felly, dwi'n galw am bleidlais ar y cynnig heb ei ddiwygio a gyflwynwyd yn enw Darren Millar. [Anghlywadwy.] O blaid 14, neb yn ymatal, 38 yn erbyn. Felly, mae'r cynnig yna wedi ei wrthod.

That brings us to voting time, and unless three Members wish for the bell to be rung, we will proceed directly to the first vote. That vote is on item 6, the Welsh Conservative debate: A&E performance data. I call for a vote on the motion without amendment, tabled in the name of Darren Millar. Open the vote. Close the vote. In favour 14, no abstentions, 38 against. Therefore, the motion is not agreed.

Eitem 6. Dadl y Ceidwadwyr Cymreig—Data perfformiad adrannau Damweiniau ac Achosion Brys. Cynnig heb ei ddiwygio: O blaid: 14, Yn erbyn: 38, Ymatal: 0

Gwrthodwyd y cynnig

Item 6. Welsh Conservatives Debate—A&E department performance data. Motion without amendment: For: 14, Against: 38, Abstain: 0

Motion has been rejected

Gwelliant 1 sydd nesaf yn enw Lesley Griffiths, ac os bydd gwelliant 1 yn cael ei dderbyn, bydd gwelliannau 2 a 3 yn cael eu dad-ddethol. Agor y bleidlais ar welliant 1. [Anghlywadwy.] Ac felly, fe fydda i yn defnyddio fy mhleidlais fwrw yn erbyn gwelliant 1, sydd yn golygu bod 26 o blaid, neb yn ymatal, 27 yn erbyn, ac mae gwelliant 1 wedi cwympo.

We will now move to a vote on amendment 1, tabled in the name of Lesley Griffiths. And if amendment 1 is agreed, amendments 2 and 3 will be deselected. Open the vote on amendment 1. [Inaudible.]—the vote is tied, and therefore I will exercise my casting vote against the amendment, which leaves 26 in favour, no abstentions, and 27 against. And therefore amendment 1 is not agreed.

18:25

Eitem 6. Dadl y Ceidwadwyr Cymreig. Gwelliant 1, cyflwynwyd yn enw Lesley Griffiths: O blaid: 26, Yn erbyn: 26, Ymatal: 0

Gan fod nifer y pleidleisiau yn gyfartal, defnyddiodd y Llywydd ei phleidlais fwrw yn unol â Rheol Sefydlog 6.20(ii).

Gwrthodwyd y gwelliant

Item 6. Welsh Conservatives Debate. Amendment 1, tabled in the name of Lesley Griffiths: For: 26, Against: 26, Abstain: 0

As there was an equality of votes, the Llywydd used her casting vote in accordance with Standing Order 6.20(ii).

Amendment has been rejected

Gwelliant 2 fydd nesaf, felly, yn enw Heledd Fychan. Agor y bleidlais. Mae'r bleidlais yma eto'n gyfartal, felly 26 o blaid, neb yn ymatal, 26 yn erbyn. Dwi'n defnyddio fy mhleidlais fwrw. Ac felly, mae 26 o blaid, 27 yn erbyn y gwelliant. Mae gwelliant 2, felly, yn cael ei wrthod.

Amendment 2 is next, tabled in the name of Heledd Fychan. Open the vote. This vote is again tied, so 26 in favour, no abstentions, and 26 against. I exercise my casting vote, therefore, against the amendment, so there are 26 in favour and 27 against. Amendments 2 is therefore not agreed.

Eitem 6. Dadl y Ceidwadwyr Cymreig. Gwelliant 2, cyflwynwyd yn enw Heledd Fychan: O blaid: 26, Yn erbyn: 26, Ymatal: 0

Gan fod nifer y pleidleisiau yn gyfartal, defnyddiodd y Llywydd ei phleidlais fwrw yn unol â Rheol Sefydlog 6.20(ii).

Gwrthodwyd y gwelliant

Item 6. Welsh Conservatives Debate. Amendment 2, tabled in the name of Heledd Fychan: For: 26, Against: 26, Abstain: 0

As there was an equality of votes, the Llywydd used her casting vote in accordance with Standing Order 6.20(ii).

Amendment has been rejected

Gwelliant 3, eto yn enw Heledd Fychan. Agor y bleidlais. [Anghlywadwy.]—ac felly mi fyddaf i'n defnyddio fy mhleidlais fwrw yn erbyn gwelliant 3. Dau ddeg chwech o blaid, neb yn ymatal, 27 yn erbyn. Mae gwelliant 3 wedi ei wrthod. Ac felly mae'r holl welliannau a'r cynnig wedi eu gwrthod o dan yr eitem yna.

Amendment 3 is next, again in the name of Heledd Fychan. Open the vote. [Inaudible.]—vote is tied, therefore I will exercise my casting vote against amendment 3. So, there are 26 in favour, no abstentions, and 27 against. Amendment 3 is therefore not agreed. 

Eitem 6. Dadl y Ceidwadwyr Cymreig. Gwelliant 3, cyflwynwyd yn enw Heledd Fychan: O blaid: 26, Yn erbyn: 26, Ymatal: 0

Gan fod nifer y pleidleisiau yn gyfartal, defnyddiodd y Llywydd ei phleidlais fwrw yn unol â Rheol Sefydlog 6.20(ii).

Gwrthodwyd y gwelliant

Item 6. Welsh Conservatives Debate. Amendment 3, tabled in the name of Heledd Fychan: For: 26, Against: 26, Abstain: 0

As there was an equality of votes, the Llywydd used her casting vote in accordance with Standing Order 6.20(ii).

Amendment has been rejected

Ac felly mae'r holl welliannau a'r cynnig wedi eu gwrthod o dan yr eitem yna.

Fe fyddwn ni'n symud ymlaen, felly, i ddadl Plaid Cymru ar drafnidiaeth, a dwi'n galw am bleidlais ar y cynnig heb ei ddiwygio, a gyflwynwyd yn enw Heledd Fychan. Agor y bleidlais. [Anghlywadwy.]—gyfartal, 26 o blaid, 26 yn erbyn. Dwi'n defnyddio fy mhleidlais fwrw yn erbyn y cynnig, ac felly mae'r cynnig heb ei ddiwygio wedi ei wrthod o 26 i 27 pleidlais yn erbyn.

And therefore the motion and the amendments to it have all been rejected under that item.

We will now move to the Plaid Cymru debate on transport, and I call for a vote on the motion without amendment, tabled in the name of Heledd Fychan. Open the vote. The vote is tied, so 26 in favour, 26 against. I exercise my casting vote against the motion, and therefore the unamended motion is not agreed: 26 in favour, 27 against.

Eitem 7. Dadl Plaid Cymru—Trafnidiaeth Cymru. Cynnig heb ei ddiwygio: O blaid: 26, Yn erbyn: 26, Ymatal: 0

Gan fod nifer y pleidleisiau yn gyfartal, defnyddiodd y Llywydd ei phleidlais fwrw yn unol â Rheol Sefydlog 6.20(ii).

Gwrthodwyd y cynnig

Item 7. Plaid Cymru Debate—Transport for Wales. Motion without amendment: For: 26, Against: 26, Abstain: 0

As there was an equality of votes, the Llywydd used her casting vote in accordance with Standing Order 6.20(ii).

Motion has been rejected

Gwelliant 1 fydd nesaf, felly, a gyflwynwyd yn enw Lesley Griffiths. Agor y bleidlais. Mae'r bleidlais yn gyfartal: 26 o blaid, 26 yn erbyn. Dwi'n defnyddio fy mhleidlais fwrw yn erbyn gwelliant 1, ac felly mae gwelliant 1 wedi ei wrthod o 26 i 27 pleidlais.

We'll now move to a vote on amendment 1, tabled in the name of Lesley Griffiths. Open the vote. The vote is tied: 26 in favour, 26 against. I exercise my casting vote against amendment 1, and therefore amendment 1 is not agreed: 26 in favour, 27 against.

Eitem 7. Dadl Plaid Cymru. Gwelliant 1, cyflwynwyd yn enw Lesley Griffiths: O blaid: 26, Yn erbyn: 26, Ymatal: 0

Gan fod nifer y pleidleisiau yn gyfartal, defnyddiodd y Llywydd ei phleidlais fwrw yn unol â Rheol Sefydlog 6.20(ii).

Gwrthodwyd y gwelliant

Item 7. Plaid Cymru Debate. Amendment 1, tabled in the name of Lesley Griffiths: For: 26, Against: 26, Abstain: 0

As there was an equality of votes, the Llywydd used her casting vote in accordance with Standing Order 6.20(ii).

Amendment has been rejected

Y bleidlais nesaf fydd pleidlais ar welliant 2 yn enw Darren Millar. Agor y bleidlais. Mae'r bleidlais yn gyfartal. Dwi'n defnyddio fy mhleidlais fwrw yn erbyn gwelliant 2, ac felly canlyniad y bleidlais yna yw 26 o blaid a 27 yn erbyn. 

The next vote will be on amendment 2 tabled in the name of Darren Millar. Open the vote. And the vote is tied. I exercise my casting vote against amendment 2, and therefore the result of the vote is 26 in favour, 27 against. 

Eitem 7. Dadl Plaid Cymru. Gwelliant 2, cyflwynwyd yn enw Darren Millar: O blaid: 26, Yn erbyn: 26, Ymatal: 0

Gan fod nifer y pleidleisiau yn gyfartal, defnyddiodd y Llywydd ei phleidlais fwrw yn unol â Rheol Sefydlog 6.20(ii).

Gwrthodwyd y gwelliant

Item 7. Plaid Cymru Debate. Amendment 2, tabled in the name of Darren Millar: For: 26, Against: 26, Abstain: 0

As there was an equality of votes, the Llywydd used her casting vote in accordance with Standing Order 6.20(ii).

Amendment has been rejected

Felly, mae'r holl welliannau a'r cynnig wedi eu gwrthod dan yr eitem yna hefyd, ac felly dyna ddiwedd ein cyfnod pleidleisio ni am heddiw.

Therefore, the motion and the amendments to it have been rejected under that item too, and that concludes voting for today.

9. Dadl Fer: Ymwybyddiaeth o strôc a'r ymgyrch FAST/NESA
9. Short Debate: Stroke awareness and the FAST/NESA campaign

Ond nid dyna ddiwedd ar ein gwaith ni am heddiw, ac mi fyddwn ni'n symud ymlaen yn awr i'r ddadl fer. Huw Irranca-Davies sydd i gyflwyno'r ddadl fer hynny.

But our business goes on. We will now move to the short debate. I call on Huw Irranca-Davies to introduce the short debate.

If I can ask Members to leave the Chamber quietly. We still have one item of business to complete and that's the short debate. And Huw Irranca-Davies can start that short debate when he believes the Chamber is quiet enough for him to do so.

Os caf fi ofyn i'r Aelodau adael y Siambr yn dawel. Mae gennym un eitem o fusnes i'w chwblhau o hyd, sef y ddadl fer. A gall Huw Irranca-Davies ddechrau'r ddadl fer honno pan fydd yn credu bod y Siambr yn ddigon tawel iddo wneud hynny.

Diolch, Llywydd. And if I may, in this short debate, I've given some time to Joyce Watson and to Mark Isherwood as well at the close. I'd like to begin by repeating the words of Fran from Church Village in Pontypridd, who appeared at our recent cross-party group. She has lived experience of stroke. She told the group:

'I woke up and my face felt funny. I had a little drink and it was dribbling down my face, but I thought nothing of it. I just thought I was tired, so I went back to sleep, as I didn't want to be a drama queen and disturb my husband and children. When I woke up in the morning, I went downstairs. I tried to speak to my husband, but no words came out. I tried to speak a few times, but then I panicked. I was frightened and had no idea what was happening to me.'

Diolch, Lywydd. Ac os caf fi, yn y ddadl fer hon, rwyf wedi rhoi amser i Joyce Watson ac i Mark Isherwood ar y diwedd. Hoffwn ddechrau drwy ailadrodd geiriau Fran o Bentre'r Eglwys ym Mhontypridd, a ymddangosodd yn ein grŵp trawsbleidiol yn ddiweddar. Mae hi wedi profi strôc ei hun. Dywedodd wrth y grŵp:

'Fe ddeffrais ac roedd fy wyneb yn teimlo'n od. Cefais ddiod bach ac roedd yn diferu i lawr fy wyneb, ond ni feddyliais ragor am y peth. Roeddwn yn meddwl fy mod wedi blino, felly euthum yn ôl i gysgu, am nad oeddwn eisiau bod yn ddramatig a tharfu ar fy ngŵr a fy mhlant. Pan ddeffrais yn y bore, euthum i lawr y grisiau. Ceisiais siarad â fy ngŵr, ond ni ddeuai unrhyw eiriau allan. Ceisiais siarad sawl gwaith, ond yna fe gefais bwl o banig. Roedd arnaf ofn ac nid oedd gennyf syniad beth oedd yn digwydd i mi.'

18:30

Daeth y Dirprwy Lywydd i’r Gadair.

The Deputy Presiding Officer took the Chair.

And so began Fran's journey through stroke and life after stroke. Fran's stroke has left her with aphasia, which affects her communication and which also leaves her fatigued. We were genuinely privileged to have Fran share her frank and honest experience, her story, with us at the recently reconvened cross-party group, which I'm now privileged to be able to chair with Altaf Hussain, my colleague, as vice chair. And it's another step forwards, in reconvening this group, towards raising the awareness of stroke, listening to stroke survivors and also raising the importance of acting FAST, calling 999 if you recognise the symptoms too, which will be the focus of my debate today.

So, today's debate focuses on the Act FAST and also the Welsh version of that, the cam NESA campaign, in Wales. It's a critical initiative to raise awareness about the signs of stroke and what to do if you suspect one.

Now, stroke, we know, is a debilitating condition. It affects thousands of lives each year. So, our efforts in preventing it, detecting it, responding quickly and managing it are more crucial than ever before. There are currently around 70,000 people in Wales who have survived stroke, according to their GP practice record. I know many people individually myself.

The Welsh Government has projected a 50 per cent increase in the number of stroke survivors over the next two decades, so, it is really imperative that we act to prevent stroke, to detect the high-risk conditions as early as possible and to ensure that patients receive the optimal care and support. And this is where the Act FAST/Cam NESA campaign comes into play. Since its inception in 2009, the NHS FAST campaign has delivered really impressive results. It has provided thousands of thrombolysis treatments, quality-adjusted life years and roughly a £9 return on investment for every single £1 of media spend. It's a testament to the power of public awareness campaigns in healthcare.

And on the issue of rapid response to stroke for a moment, we know that early medical treatment for stroke not only saves lives, but it increases the chances of recovery. Stroke is the fifth single leading cause of death in Wales; it's the single largest cause of complex disability. So, a delay in getting treatment for stroke kills the brain cells and can sadly prove to be fatal. So, that's why it's important to act FAST.

Health Inspectorate Wales's 'National review of patient flow: a journey through the stroke pathway', published only this September, explored the experiences of people accessing care and treatment for stroke at every single stage, from calling the ambulance, transfer to hospital, assessment, in-patient treatment, right through to discharge, and it recognised—that really recognised—that the healthcare system, as we often hear in this Chamber, is currently facing a demand that surpasses its capacity to deliver. During the Healthcare Inspectorate Wales's field work, nearly all the hospitals visited were operating under level 4 extreme pressure in the national emergency pressures escalation and de-escalation action plan.

And this heightened demand does affect the Welsh Ambulance Services NHS Trust's—WAST's—ability to respond promptly to emergency calls, despite the heroic efforts of hospital patient flow teams throughout Wales, working around the clock to try and improve patient flow. Healthcare Inspectorate Wales's observations were that patient flow challenges were negatively impacting every single phase of stroke care, and this impact extended from the initial need for healthcare at home to the point of discharge from the hospital. However, it was positive to find that patients suspected as having had a stroke were prioritised for ambulance handover—this is what they found—and were transferred to an emergency department promptly in line with the stroke pathway. So, even under those pressures, they're trying to do the right thing. They also found that the recognition of stroke and its prevention is a key area that needs attention right across Wales. More needs to be done by NHS healthcare providers and Public Health Wales to educate people about stroke, which brings us back to FAST and Cam NESA.

So, throughout April and May 2023, Public Health Wales ran the Act FAST/Cam NESA campaign. It used platforms like tv, radio, social media. It reached millions of people across Wales. We know that; it has been analysed. Bilingual tv adverts were run on both ITV Wales and S4C, which received over 5 million impressions. Radio adverts and video-on-demand adverts were also live during this period. They received 10 million impressions and a little under 310,000 impressions respectively. Act FAST adverts were also live on Facebook and Instagram, and they reached 1 million people across Wales. There was hardly anybody who didn't see this campaign going on, and the impact was clear. Nearly 90 per cent, then, of the subsequently surveyed population said they recognised the importance of dialling 999 when they witness the signs of a stroke; over a third had seen the campaign's communications; and the FAST test was familiar to almost 80 per cent of respondents. Knowledge of the individual letters of the acronym was also consistently above 90 per cent: so, that's face, arms, speech and time. 

Ac felly y dechreuodd taith Fran drwy strôc a bywyd ar ôl strôc. Mae strôc Fran wedi ei gadael gydag affasia, sy'n effeithio ar ei chyfathrebu ac sydd hefyd yn ei gadael wedi blino. Cawsom y fraint o gael Fran yn rhannu ei phrofiad gonest ac agored, ei stori, gyda ni yn y grŵp trawsbleidiol a ailgynullwyd yn ddiweddar, ac y caf y fraint o'i gadeirio gyda fy nghyd-Aelod Altaf Hussain yn is-gadeirydd. Ac mae'n gam arall ymlaen, wrth ailgynnull y grŵp hwn, tuag at godi ymwybyddiaeth o strôc, gwrando ar rai sydd wedi goroesi strôc a chodi ymwybyddiaeth o bwysigrwydd gweithredu'r prawf wyneb, braich, lleferydd (FAST), ffonio 999 os ydych chi'n sylwi ar symptomau, a dyna fydd ffocws fy nadl heddiw.

Felly, mae'r ddadl heddiw yn canolbwyntio ar Act FAST a hefyd y fersiwn Gymraeg ohono, sef ymgyrch Cam NESA yng Nghymru. Mae'n fenter allweddol i godi ymwybyddiaeth o arwyddion strôc a beth i'w wneud os ydych chi'n credu bod rhywun wedi cael un.

Nawr, fe wyddom fod strôc yn gyflwr gwanychol. Mae'n effeithio ar filoedd o fywydau bob blwyddyn. Felly, mae ein hymdrechion i'w atal, ei ganfod, ymateb yn gyflym a'i reoli yn bwysicach nag erioed o'r blaen. Ar hyn o bryd mae tua 70,000 o bobl yng Nghymru wedi goroesi strôc, yn ôl cofnodion eu meddygfeydd. Rwy'n adnabod sawl un fy hun.

Mae Llywodraeth Cymru wedi rhagweld cynnydd o 50 y cant yn nifer y bobl sy'n goroesi strôc dros y ddau ddegawd nesaf, felly, mae'n wirioneddol hanfodol ein bod yn gweithredu i atal strôc, i ganfod y cyflyrau risg uchel cyn gynted â phosibl ac i sicrhau bod cleifion yn cael y gofal a'r cymorth gorau posibl. A dyma lle mae ymgyrch Act FAST/Cam NESA yn bwysig. Ers ei sefydlu yn 2009, mae ymgyrch FAST y GIG wedi arwain at ganlyniadau trawiadol iawn. Mae wedi darparu miloedd o driniaethau thrombolysis, blynyddoedd bywyd wedi'u haddasu o ran ansawdd a thua £9 ar fuddsoddiad am bob £1 o wariant ar y cyfryngau. Mae'n dyst i bŵer ymgyrchoedd ymwybyddiaeth y cyhoedd mewn gofal iechyd.

Ac ar fater ymateb cyflym i strôc am eiliad, fe wyddom fod triniaeth feddygol gynnar ar gyfer strôc nid yn unig yn achub bywydau, mae hefyd yn cynyddu'r cyfle i wella. Strôc yw pumed prif achos unigol marwolaeth yng Nghymru; dyma brif achos unigol anabledd cymhleth. Felly, mae oedi cyn cael triniaeth ar gyfer strôc yn lladd celloedd yr ymennydd ac yn anffodus, gall fod yn angheuol. Dyna pam ei bod yn bwysig gweithredu'n gyflym.

Roedd 'Adolygiad cenedlaethol o lif cleifion: taith drwy'r llwybr strôc', a gyhoeddwyd ym mis Medi, yn archwilio profiadau pobl sy'n cael mynediad at ofal a thriniaeth strôc ar bob cam, o ffonio'r ambiwlans, trosglwyddo i'r ysbyty, asesu, triniaeth cleifion mewnol, hyd at ryddhau o'r ysbyty, ac roedd yn cydnabod—roedd hynny'n cydnabod go iawn—fod y system gofal iechyd, fel y clywn yn aml yn y Siambr hon, yn wynebu galw sy'n fwy na'i allu i gyflawni ar hyn o bryd. Yn ystod gwaith maes Arolygiaeth Gofal Iechyd Cymru, roedd bron bob un o'r ysbytai yr ymwelwyd â nhw'n gweithredu o dan bwysau eithafol lefel 4 yn y cynllun gweithredu cenedlaethol ar gyfer uwchgyfeirio ac isgyfeirio pwysau argyfwng.

Ac mae'r galw cynyddol hwn yn effeithio ar allu Ymddiriedolaeth GIG Gwasanaethau Ambiwlans Cymru i ymateb yn brydlon i alwadau brys, er gwaethaf ymdrechion arwrol timau llif cleifion mewn ysbytai ledled Cymru, sy'n gweithio'n ddi-dor i geisio gwella llif cleifion. Arsylwadau Arolygiaeth Gofal Iechyd Cymru oedd bod heriau llif cleifion yn effeithio'n negyddol ar bob cam o ofal strôc, ac roedd yr effaith hon yn ymestyn o'r angen cychwynnol am ofal iechyd gartref hyd at y pwynt rhyddhau o'r ysbyty. Fodd bynnag, roedd yn gadarnhaol canfod bod cleifion yr amheuid eu bod wedi cael strôc yn cael eu blaenoriaethu ar gyfer trosglwyddiadau ambiwlans—dyma a welsant—i adran argyfwng yn brydlon yn unol â'r llwybr strôc. Felly, hyd yn oed o dan bwysau, maent yn ceisio gwneud y peth iawn. Canfuwyd hefyd fod adnabod strôc a'i atal yn faes allweddol sydd angen sylw ledled Cymru. Mae angen i ddarparwyr gofal iechyd y GIG ac Iechyd Cyhoeddus Cymru wneud mwy i addysgu pobl am strôc, sy'n dod â ni'n ôl at FAST a Cam NESA.

Felly, drwy gydol mis Ebrill a mis Mai 2023, cynhaliodd Iechyd Cyhoeddus Cymru ymgyrch Act FAST/Cam NESA. Defnyddiodd lwyfannau fel y teledu, radio, cyfryngau cymdeithasol. Cyrhaeddodd filiynau o bobl ar draws Cymru. Rydym yn gwybod hynny; mae wedi cael ei ddadansoddi. Cafodd hysbysebion teledu dwyieithog eu dangos ar ITV Wales ac S4C, a chawsant eu gweld dros 5 miliwn o weithiau. Roedd hysbysebion radio a hysbysebion fideo-ar-alw hefyd yn fyw yn ystod y cyfnod hwn. Cawsant eu gweld 10 miliwn o weithiau ac ychydig o dan 310,000 o weithiau yn y drefn honno. Aeth hysbysebion Act FAST yn fyw hefyd ar Facebook ac Instagram, gan gyrraedd 1 filiwn o bobl ledled Cymru. Go brin fod unrhyw un heb weld yr ymgyrch hon, ac roedd yr effaith yn glir. Dywedodd bron i 90 y cant o'r boblogaeth a arolygwyd wedi hynny eu bod yn deall pwysigrwydd deialu 999 pan fyddant yn gweld arwyddion strôc; roedd dros draean wedi gweld cyfathrebiadau'r ymgyrch; ac roedd y prawf FAST yn gyfarwydd i bron 80 y cant o'r ymatebwyr. Roedd gwybodaeth am lythrennau unigol yr acronym hefyd yn gyson uwch na 90 y cant: felly, wyneb, breichiau, lleferydd ac amser. 

Neu, yn Gymraeg, nam ar yr wyneb: a yw’r wyneb wedi syrthio ar un ochr? Ydyn nhw’n gallu gwenu? Estyn: ydyn nhw’n gallu estyn y ddwy fraich uwch eu pen a’u cadw yno? Siarad: ydyn nhw’n cael trafferth siarad? Amser: mae ymateb yn amserol yn hollbwysig. Ffoniwch 999 os ydych chi’n gweld un o’r symptomau uchod. 

Or, in Welsh, a problem with the face: has their face dropped on one side? Can they smile? Reach: can they extend both arms above their head and keep them there? Speech: are they having difficulty in speaking? Time: a timely response is vitally important. Phone 999 if you see any of these symptoms.

There was real evidence that people had taken on those messages in Welsh and English. Whilst it's positive to see these numbers and learn that awareness is being raised, it is still evident that more can and needs to be done on awareness and on a more frequent and a more routine basis.

Healthcare Inspectorate Wales's national review of patient flow made the following recommendation specific to stroke prevention. They said that health boards should engage more with each other to learn from the good patient education practices taking place across Wales. This could help, they said, with the shared learning between themselves and with GP practices in the localities to educate better patients of the risks of stroke, to help reduce the number of strokes across Wales. And they also said that Public Health Wales should consider the development and promotion of a national campaign to raise stroke awareness and its prevention in Wales alongside the Act FAST campaign, and this should include focusing down on awareness of stroke prevention within black and minority ethnic communities and the impact of health inequalities and socioeconomic deprivation. And they also said health boards and Public Health Wales should work closely with black and minority ethnic communities and people affected by those socioeconomic disadvantages to understand better the specific issues they face with their increased risk of stroke and in accessing the preventative care to ensure that ongoing engagement with them supports better health outcomes. We know the importance of that.

So, the Stroke Association, which is behind the cross-party group, along with many other people, is calling for a biennial Act FAST/Cam NESA campaign in Wales to ensure that everyone knows to call 999 at the first sign of a stroke. Running that FAST campaign more regularly will ultimately increase the public awareness of stroke via national campaigns and with a particular emphasis on that engagement with black and minority ethnic communities and those affected by socioeconomic deprivation. A dedicated biennial Act FAST/Cam NESA campaign in Wales would also allow, then, time to plan and for all stakeholders to be involved from the very beginning so it ensures that money put towards the campaign is well utilised. The current arrangements, which rely on a pretty much ad-hoc basis, where we find some leftover money, it creates difficulty in engaging all the stakeholders well and difficulty, then, in utilising the funds more effectively. So, we are therefore joining their calls for a campaign to secure the Minister's commitment, in the difficult times that we have, for Public Health Wales to run that Act FAST/Cam NESA campaign at least every two years in Wales to ensure the Welsh public are kept informed with the FAST campaign, as recommended by the Healthcare Inspectorate Wales's national review of patient flow. And secondly to ensure that all the necessary stakeholders from those initial planning stages and through the campaign are fully involved to make the money go further as well. 

So, on a final note, before I introduce other colleagues who wish to contribute, we know that, for every minute that a stroke is left untreated, up to 2 million brain cells die, and the longer this goes on, the more likely it is to lead to permanent brain damage, worse disability, and even fatality. So, please, for anyone listening to this debate, know the signs and act FAST. Do not feel like you're being a burden on the NHS, that you don't want to ring 999. Do not feel that you're being a burden on your family. Your chances of survival, your family's and your friends' chances of survival, are improved if you act FAST. The recovery and rehabilitation and chances of recovery are improved rapidly. Act FAST. Take y cam NESA. Diolch yn fawr.

Cafwyd tystiolaeth go iawn fod pobl wedi deall y negeseuon hynny yn Gymraeg ac yn Saesneg. Er ei bod yn gadarnhaol gweld y niferoedd hyn a dysgu bod ymwybyddiaeth yn codi, mae'n amlwg o hyd y gellir ac y dylid gwneud mwy ar ymwybyddiaeth a hynny'n amlach ac yn fwy rheolaidd.

Gwnaeth adolygiad cenedlaethol Arolygiaeth Gofal Iechyd Cymru o lif cleifion yr argymhelliad canlynol sy'n benodol ar gyfer atal strôc. Roeddent yn dweud y dylai byrddau iechyd ymgysylltu mwy â'i gilydd i ddysgu o'r arferion da ym maes addysgu cleifion sy'n digwydd ledled Cymru. Roeddent yn dweud y gallai hyn helpu gyda'r dysgu a rennir rhyngddyn nhw a chyda meddygfeydd yn lleol i addysgu cleifion yn well am beryglon strôc, er mwyn helpu i leihau nifer yr achosion o  strôc ledled Cymru. Ac roeddent yn dweud hefyd y dylai Iechyd Cyhoeddus Cymru ystyried datblygu a hyrwyddo ymgyrch genedlaethol i godi ymwybyddiaeth o strôc ac atal strôc yng Nghymru ochr yn ochr â'r ymgyrch Act FAST, a dylai hyn gynnwys canolbwyntio ar ymwybyddiaeth o atal strôc mewn cymunedau du ac ethnig leiafrifol ac effaith anghydraddoldebau iechyd ac amddifadedd economaidd-gymdeithasol. Ac roeddent yn dweud hefyd y dylai byrddau iechyd ac Iechyd Cyhoeddus Cymru weithio'n agos gyda chymunedau du ac ethnig leiafrifol a phobl yr effeithir arnynt gan anfanteision economaidd-gymdeithasol i ddeall yn well y problemau penodol y maent yn eu hwynebu gyda'u risg uwch o strôc ac wrth gael mynediad at y gofal ataliol i sicrhau bod ymgysylltiad parhaus â nhw i gefnogi canlyniadau iechyd gwell. Rydym yn gwybod pa mor bwysig yw hynny.

Felly, mae'r Gymdeithas Strôc, sy'n cefnogi'r grŵp trawsbleidiol, ynghyd â llawer o bobl eraill, yn galw am ymgyrch Act FAST/Cam NESA bob dwy flynedd yng Nghymru i sicrhau bod pawb yn gwybod y dylid ffonio 999 ar yr arwydd cyntaf o strôc. Yn y pen draw, bydd cynnal ymgyrch FAST yn fwy rheolaidd yn cynyddu ymwybyddiaeth y cyhoedd o strôc drwy ymgyrchoedd cenedlaethol a chyda phwyslais arbennig ar ymgysylltu â chymunedau du ac ethnig leiafrifol a'r rhai yr effeithir arnynt gan amddifadedd economaidd-gymdeithasol. Byddai ymgyrch Act FAST/Cam NESA benodedig bob dwy flynedd yng Nghymru hefyd yn caniatáu amser i gynllunio ac i'r holl randdeiliaid fod yn rhan o'r cychwyn cyntaf er mwyn sicrhau bod arian a roddir tuag at yr ymgyrch yn cael ei ddefnyddio'n dda. Mae'r trefniadau presennol sy'n dibynnu, ar sail ad-hoc fwy neu lai, ar ble y deuwn o hyd i arian dros ben, yn creu anhawster o ran ymgysylltu'n dda â'r holl randdeiliaid ac anhawster wedyn i ddefnyddio'r arian yn fwy effeithiol. Felly, rydym yn cefnogi eu galwadau am ymgyrch i sicrhau ymrwymiad y Gweinidog, yn y cyfnod anodd rydym ynddo, i Iechyd Cyhoeddus Cymru gynnal yr ymgyrch Act FAST/Cam NESA o leiaf bob dwy flynedd yng Nghymru i sicrhau bod y cyhoedd yng Nghymru yn cael yr wybodaeth ddiweddaraf am yr ymgyrch FAST, fel yr argymhellwyd gan adolygiad cenedlaethol Arolygiaeth Gofal Iechyd Cymru o lif cleifion. Ac yn ail i sicrhau bod yr holl randdeiliaid angenrheidiol o'r camau cynllunio cychwynnol a thrwy'r ymgyrch yn cymryd rhan lawn i wneud i'r arian fynd ymhellach. 

Felly, ar nodyn terfynol, cyn imi gyflwyno cyd-Aelodau eraill sy'n dymuno cyfrannu, am bob munud na chaiff strôc ei drin, fe wyddom fod hyd at 2 filiwn o gelloedd yr ymennydd yn marw, a pho hwyaf y bydd hyn yn parhau, y mwyaf tebygol ydyw o arwain at niwed parhaol i'r ymennydd, anabledd gwaeth, a hyd yn oed marwolaeth. Felly, os gwelwch yn dda, i unrhyw un sy'n gwrando ar y ddadl hon, dowch i adnabod yr arwyddion a gweithredu'r prawf FAST. Peidiwch â theimlo eich bod yn faich ar y GIG, ac nad ydych am ffonio 999. Peidiwch â theimlo eich bod yn faich ar eich teulu. Mae eich gobaith o oroesi, gobaith eich teulu a'ch ffrindiau o oroesi, yn gwella os ydych chi'n gweithredu'r prawf FAST. Mae gwellhad ac adferiad a'r gobaith o wella yn cynyddu'n gyflym. Gweithredwch FAST. Cymerwch y cam NESA. Diolch yn fawr.

18:40

I want to just highlight one case. It was due to the Act FAST campaign that this young individual survived so successfully. I think the one thing that was missing is that stroke can happen to anybody, at any age. The case that I'm going to give you happened some years ago to a 17-year-old male who was visiting his friends in Cardiff. They were well across the act FAST. They had seen the adverts, and they recognised the symptoms, even though he was only 17. They called an ambulance. He was taken to the university hospital in Cardiff, where he underwent clot retrieval treatment. That was on a Friday. On the Monday, I happened to be visiting that hospital and that stroke unit. I met the young man in question, I met his family, and I also met the surgeons. He was actually speaking to me and he had made a full recovery. There were two things in his favour, but the singular thing that was in his favour was that his colleagues had responded to what they had seen, that campaign you were talking about on the tv, listened to it on the radio, and had no doubt of what they were witnessing, even though he was only 17 years of age. So, I support your call for the campaign, having seen a young person's life being saved and also returned virtually to where it was before.

Hoffwn dynnu sylw at un achos yn unig. Oherwydd yr ymgyrch Act FAST y goroesodd yr unigolyn ifanc hwn mor llwyddiannus. Rwy'n credu mai'r un peth a oedd ar goll yw bod strôc yn gallu digwydd i unrhyw un, ar unrhyw oedran. Fe ddigwyddodd yr achos rwy'n mynd i'w roi i chi rai blynyddoedd yn ôl i ŵr ifanc 17 oed a oedd yn ymweld â'i ffrindiau yng Nghaerdydd. Roeddent yn gyfarwydd â FAST. Roeddent wedi gweld yr hysbysebion, ac roeddent yn adnabod y symptomau, er mai dim ond 17 oed oedd y gŵr ifanc. Fe wnaethant ffonio ambiwlans. Cafodd ei gludo i'r ysbyty athrofaol yng Nghaerdydd, lle cafodd driniaeth i dynnu clot. Digwyddodd hynny ar ddydd Gwener. Ar y dydd Llun, roeddwn yn digwydd bod yn ymweld â'r ysbyty a'r uned strôc honno. Cyfarfûm â'r gŵr ifanc dan sylw, cyfarfûm â'i deulu, a chyfarfûm â'r llawfeddygon hefyd. Roedd yn siarad â mi ac roedd wedi cael gwellhad llwyr. Roedd dau beth o'i blaid, ond y peth mwyaf oedd o'i blaid oedd bod ei gyfeillion wedi ymateb i'r hyn a welsant, yr ymgyrch roeddech chi'n sôn amdani ar y teledu, wedi gwrando arni ar y radio, ac nid oeddent yn amau'r hyn a welent, er mai dim ond 17 oed oedd y gŵr ifanc. Felly, rwy'n cefnogi eich galwad am yr ymgyrch, ar ôl gweld bywyd unigolyn ifanc yn cael ei achub a hefyd yn dychwelyd bron iawn i ble roedd yn flaenorol.

By coincidence, I actually led a debate here almost exactly a year ago on stroke services, where I stated:

'The Stroke Association has also called for a renewed FAST campaign'

—face, arms, speech, time—

'by Public Health Wales...to improve awareness of stroke symptoms and urge those experiencing these to call 999 as soon as possible. Acting fast gives the person having a stroke the best chance of survival and recovery',

adding that the FAST campaign was last run in Wales in 2018, but was run in both England and Northern Ireland in 2021, and analysis of the campaign in England found that it was highly cost effective.

In June, I visited Buckley stroke group with the Stroke Association to learn about their experience of stroke, and subsequently raised here the issues they had raised with me. Having joined the cross-party group on stroke, meeting earlier this month, which launched the campaign for Welsh Government and Public Health Wales to commit to running a regular FAST campaign, I'm delighted to support this motion today.

Drwy gyd-ddigwyddiad, arweiniais ddadl yma bron flwyddyn union yn ôl ar wasanaethau strôc, lle nodais:

'Mae'r Gymdeithas Strôc hefyd wedi galw am adnewyddu ymgyrch y prawf wyneb, braich, lleferydd, amser'

—y cam NESA—

'gan Iechyd Cyhoeddus Cymru... i wella ymwybyddiaeth o symptomau strôc ac annog y rhai sy'n profi'r rhain i ffonio 999 cyn gynted â phosibl. Mae gweithredu'n gyflym yn rhoi'r cyfle gorau i'r person sy'n cael strôc oroesi a gwella',

gan ychwanegu bod yr ymgyrch FAST wedi'i chynnal ddiwethaf yng Nghymru yn 2018, ond fe'i cynhaliwyd yn Lloegr a Gogledd Iwerddon yn 2021, a chanfu dadansoddiad o'r ymgyrch yn Lloegr ei bod yn gosteffeithiol iawn.

Ym mis Mehefin, ymwelais â grŵp strôc Bwcle gyda'r Gymdeithas Strôc i ddysgu am eu profiad o strôc, ac wedi hynny fe wneuthum dynnu sylw at y materion y gwnaethant eu codi gyda mi. Ar ôl ymuno â'r grŵp trawsbleidiol ar strôc a gyfarfu yn gynharach y mis hwn, ac a lansiodd yr ymgyrch yn galw ar Lywodraeth Cymru ac Iechyd Cyhoeddus Cymru i ymrwymo i gynnal ymgyrch FAST reolaidd, rwy'n falch iawn o gefnogi'r cynnig hwn heddiw.

Galwaf ar y Gweinidog Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol i ymateb i'r ddadl—Eluned Morgan.

I call on the Minister for Health and Social Services to reply to the debate—Eluned Morgan.

Diolch yn fawr, Dirprwy Lywydd. Firstly, I want to thank Huw Irranca-Davies for bringing this important issue to the Chamber and all Members who've contributed to the debate. I'm glad that he and Altaf Hussain have reconstituted that cross-party group, so thank you for taking that initiative.

Stroke is the fourth leading cause of death in Wales. It's a leading cause of disability, and it changes lives in an instant. It's been high on the agenda in the last few weeks, and I welcome the opportunity once again to shine a light on what I think is a really important subject. With the right specialist support, people can make a good recovery, and go on to rebuild their lives following a stroke. But, as you've mentioned, time is absolutely critical. Delays in receiving assessment, diagnosis and treatment are not passive and result in poorer outcomes. Sometimes people don't recognise or they dismiss the symptoms of stroke. This can result in critical delays in treatment that can save lives, prevent, or limit the severity or disability associated with stroke. Raising awareness of the signs of stroke and increasing knowledge of stroke as a medical emergency is a key area that we absolutely must maintain our focus on, using campaigns such as the FAST campaign. Now, the evaluation of the FAST campaign—you referred to this in your intervention—which was run by Public Health Wales earlier this year, demonstrated that, after that campaign, more people recognised the FAST acronym, and understood the importance of dialling 999 when they see the signs of stroke. So, I'm really supportive of this campaign being run in a sustainable way, and we must all work together to find a way to make this happen. But you'll know we're in a time of unprecedented pressure on Welsh Government's budgets, so the health boards are facing really, really difficult decisions to bring down their predicted deficits. But we can't shy away, I think, from those realities. 

Diolch yn fawr, Ddirprwy Lywydd. Yn gyntaf, hoffwn ddiolch i Huw Irranca-Davies am ddod â'r mater pwysig hwn i'r Siambr a'r holl Aelodau sydd wedi cyfrannu at y ddadl. Rwy'n falch ei fod ef ac Altaf Hussain wedi ailsefydlu'r grŵp trawsbleidiol hwnnw, fel diolch am ymgymryd â hynny.

Strôc yw'r pedwerydd prif achos marwolaeth yng Nghymru. Mae'n brif achos anabledd, ac mae'n newid bywydau mewn amrantiad. Mae wedi bod yn uchel ar yr agenda yn ystod yr wythnosau diwethaf, ac rwy'n croesawu'r cyfle unwaith eto i daflu goleuni ar bwnc pwysig iawn yn fy marn i. Gyda'r cymorth arbenigol cywir, gall pobl wella'n dda, a mynd ymlaen i ailadeiladu eu bywydau yn dilyn strôc. Ond fel y sonioch chi, mae amser yn hollol allweddol. Nid yw oedi cyn cael asesiad, diagnosis a thriniaeth i'w oddef ac mae'n arwain at ganlyniadau gwaeth. Weithiau nid yw pobl yn adnabod symptomau strôc, neu maent yn eu diystyru. Gall hyn arwain at oedi difrifol cyn cael triniaeth a all achub bywydau, neu atal neu gyfyngu ar ddifrifoldeb strôc neu anabledd sy'n gysylltiedig â strôc. Mae codi ymwybyddiaeth o arwyddion strôc a chynyddu gwybodaeth am strôc fel argyfwng meddygol yn faes allweddol y mae'n rhaid inni barhau i ganolbwyntio arno, gan ddefnyddio ymgyrchoedd fel ymgyrch FAST. Nawr, dangosodd y gwerthusiad o'r ymgyrch FAST—fe gyfeirioch chi at hyn yn eich cyfraniad—a gynhaliwyd gan Iechyd Cyhoeddus Cymru yn gynharach eleni, fod mwy o bobl yn adnabod yr acronym FAST ar ôl yr ymgyrch honno, ac yn deall pwysigrwydd deialu 999 pan welant arwyddion strôc. Felly, rwy'n gefnogol iawn i'r ymgyrch hon gael ei rhedeg mewn ffordd gynaliadwy, ac mae'n rhaid i bawb ohonom weithio gyda'n gilydd i ddod o hyd i ffordd o wneud i hyn ddigwydd. Ond fe wyddoch ein bod mewn cyfnod o bwysau digynsail ar gyllidebau Llywodraeth Cymru, felly mae'r byrddau iechyd yn wynebu penderfyniadau anodd tu hwnt i leihau'r diffygion a ragwelir. Ond nid wyf yn credu y gallwn gilio rhag y gwirioneddau hynny.

But let me turn to the important point of prevention. Now, I met recently with the national stroke programme team, and the Stroke Association, and I was astonished to find that as many as nine out of 10 strokes are preventable. So, whilst ensuring stroke patients are treated quickly is crucial, with the current cost of strokes to the NHS per year being £220 million, and the number of stroke survivors expected to increase by 50 per cent during the next 20 years, it's vital that stroke is effectively prevented where possible, and high-risk conditions, such as high blood pressure and atrial fibrillation, are detected and effectively managed. 

We know that outcomes are not equal for everyone, and I'm really pleased that you focused on that issue of getting to the black, Asian, minority ethnic community. And the Welsh Government is taking cross-Government action to address the social determinants of health, and to tackle those health inequalities in Wales, particularly in that BAME community. 

Our 'Healthy Weight: Healthy Wales' strategy, for example, sets out our vision to reduce diet and health inequalities across the population, and we continue to promote healthier lifestyles, including encouraging people to achieve and maintain a healthy weight and be more physically active.

We recognise that our current model for the management of stroke must change if we're going to realise the aims that were set out in the quality statement for stroke, which I published in 2021. Now, the good news is that work is really well under way to develop the comprehensive regional stroke centre model, but I think it's fair to say this isn't going to happen overnight. The work to develop this model is complex, but it does provide an opportunity to look at regional solutions, but also to look to consider things like rurality—and Joyce Watson will be particularly interested in that—and access to services, as well as the need to develop a sustainable workforce model. Working with Health Education and Improvement Wales to address the workforce issues, I think, is critical to the future of effective stroke care in Wales. 

I think there's really exciting digital innovations being adopted in Wales to enhance the stroke pathway. And just last week, innovative artificial intelligence/imaging technology went live in Cardiff and Vale health board, with other health boards, and they're going to move on to use this AI in the next few months. So, what this does is it speeds up the diagnosis of stroke, helping clinicians make faster, clinical decisions and identify appropriate treatments quickly. A pre-hospital virtual triage app is also being piloted at Cardiff and Vale University Health Board, and is proving really successful at reducing delays in the stroke pathway. And what they're doing is they're bypassing A&E, taking patients directly to scan to confirm stroke diagnosis and accelerate treatment. And this is now going to be deployed across Wales. So, I think this is really good. It's exactly what we've been asking for. Technology is going to help us here. 

So, just recently, a suspected stroke patient was assessed by a paramedic, who consulted a stroke specialist via the Visionable app. The initial assessment and treatment decision made via video in the ambulance meant that clinicians were then able to arrange for the patient to have a brain scan within half an hour of his arrival, with no delays at A&E. So, things are moving on. I think that's quite positive. There's a long way to go, and we do need to roll that out across Wales.

I don't underestimate the challenges ahead, but I'm confident that the work being led by the national clinical lead for stroke, Dr Shakeel Ahmad, in collaboration with the NHS organisations, and in particular the Stroke Association, who are doing great work, will propel us in the right direction to achieve the aims that were set out in that quality statement.

And, as Joyce has said, it's really relevant to people of all ages, and I think it's important, when a stroke does occur, that there is an excellent chance of surviving and returning to independence as quickly as possible. The public are our partners, and the importance of them being able to recognise the signs and symptoms of stroke is clear, and therefore I am supportive of the FAST campaign, and I am interested in making sure that we can work together with partners to explore opportunities on how and when we can run that campaign again together in the future. Diolch.

Ond gadewch imi droi at bwynt pwysig atal. Nawr, cyfarfûm yn ddiweddar â thîm y rhaglen strôc genedlaethol, a'r Gymdeithas Strôc, a synnais ganfod bod modd atal cynifer â naw o bob 10 strôc. Felly, er bod sicrhau bod cleifion strôc yn cael eu trin yn gyflym yn allweddol, gyda chost bresennol strôc i'r GIG yn £220 miliwn y flwyddyn, a bod disgwyl i nifer y bobl sy'n goroesi strôc gynyddu 50 y cant yn ystod yr 20 mlynedd nesaf, mae'n hanfodol fod strôc yn cael ei atal yn effeithiol lle bo hynny'n bosibl, a bod cyflyrau risg uchel, fel pwysedd gwaed uchel a ffibriliad atrïaidd yn cael eu canfod a'u rheoli'n effeithiol.

Fe wyddom nad yw canlyniadau'n gyfartal i bawb, ac rwy'n falch iawn eich bod wedi rhoi sylw i gyrraedd y gymuned ddu, Asiaidd ac ethnig leiafrifol. Ac mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn rhoi camau ar waith yn drawslywodraethol i roi sylw i benderfynyddion cymdeithasol iechyd, ac i fynd i'r afael ag anghydraddoldebau iechyd yng Nghymru, yn enwedig yn y gymuned ddu, Asiaidd ac ethnig leiafrifol. 

Mae ein strategaeth 'Pwysau Iach: Cymru Iach', er enghraifft, yn nodi ein gweledigaeth i leihau anghydraddoldebau deiet ac iechyd ar draws y boblogaeth, ac rydym yn parhau i hyrwyddo ffyrdd iachach o fyw, gan gynnwys annog pobl i gyrraedd a chynnal pwysau iach a bod yn fwy egnïol yn gorfforol.

Rydym yn cydnabod bod yn rhaid i'n model presennol ar gyfer rheoli strôc newid os ydym yn mynd i wireddu'r nodau a bennwyd yn y datganiad ansawdd ar gyfer strôc, a gyhoeddais yn 2021. Nawr, y newyddion da yw bod gwaith yn mynd rhagddo'n dda iawn ar ddatblygu'r model cynhwysfawr ar gyfer canolfannau strôc ranbarthol, ond rwy'n credu ei bod yn deg dweud na fydd hyn yn digwydd dros nos. Mae'r gwaith ar ddatblygu'r model hwn yn gymhleth, ond mae'n rhoi cyfle i edrych ar atebion rhanbarthol, ac i ystyried pethau fel natur wledig ardaloedd—a bydd gan Joyce Watson ddiddordeb arbennig yn hynny—a mynediad at wasanaethau, yn ogystal â'r angen i ddatblygu model gweithlu cynaliadwy. Rwy'n credu bod gweithio gydag Addysg a Gwella Iechyd Cymru i fynd i'r afael â phroblemau gweithlu yn hanfodol i ddyfodol gofal strôc effeithiol yng Nghymru. 

Rwy'n credu bod datblygiadau digidol arloesol a chyffrous iawn yn cael eu mabwysiadu yng Nghymru i wella'r llwybr strôc. A'r wythnos diwethaf, aeth technoleg deallusrwydd artiffisial arloesol yn fyw ym mwrdd iechyd Caerdydd a'r Fro, gyda byrddau iechyd eraill, ac maent yn mynd i symud ymlaen i ddefnyddio'r dechnoleg hon yn ystod y misoedd nesaf. Felly, mae hyn yn cyflymu'r broses o gael diagnosis o strôc, gan helpu clinigwyr i wneud penderfyniadau clinigol cyflymach a nodi triniaethau priodol yn gyflym. Hefyd, mae ap brysbennu rhithwir cyn-ysbyty yn cael ei dreialu ym Mwrdd Iechyd Prifysgol Caerdydd a'r Fro, ac mae'n profi'n llwyddiannus iawn wrth leihau oedi yn y llwybr strôc. A'r hyn a wnânt yw osgoi adrannau damweiniau ac achosion brys, a mynd â chleifion yn syth i'w sganio i gadarnhau diagnosis o strôc a chyflymu triniaeth. Ac mae hyn yn mynd i gael ei ddefnyddio ar draws Cymru nawr. Felly, rwy'n credu bod hyn yn wirioneddol dda. Dyma'n union y buom yn gofyn amdano. Bydd technoleg yn ein helpu yma. 

Felly, yn ddiweddar, cafodd claf y tybid ei fod wedi cael strôc ei asesu gan barafeddyg, a ymgynghorodd ag arbenigwr strôc drwy'r ap Visionable. Roedd y penderfyniad asesu a thriniaeth cychwynnol a wnaed drwy fideo yn yr ambiwlans yn golygu bod clinigwyr wedyn yn gallu trefnu i'r claf gael sgan ymennydd o fewn hanner awr iddo gyrraedd, heb unrhyw oedi yn yr adran damweiniau ac achosion brys. Felly, mae pethau'n symud yn eu blaenau. Rwy'n credu bod hynny'n eithaf cadarnhaol. Mae yna ffordd bell i fynd, ac mae angen inni gyflwyno hynny ar draws Cymru.

Nid wyf yn tanamcangyfrif yr heriau sydd o'n blaenau, ond rwy'n hyderus y bydd y gwaith sy'n cael ei arwain gan yr arweinydd clinigol cenedlaethol ar gyfer strôc, Dr Shakeel Ahmad, mewn cydweithrediad â sefydliadau'r GIG, a'r Gymdeithas Strôc yn benodol, sy'n gwneud gwaith gwych, yn mynd â ni i'r cyfeiriad cywir i gyflawni'r nodau a bennwyd yn y datganiad ansawdd.

Ac fel y dywedodd Joyce, mae'n berthnasol iawn i bobl o bob oed, ac rwy'n credu ei bod yn bwysig, pan fydd strôc yn digwydd, fod cyfle gwych i oroesi a dychwelyd i fod yn annibynnol cyn gynted â phosibl. Y cyhoedd yw ein partneriaid, ac mae'n bwysig eu bod yn gallu adnabod arwyddion a symptomau strôc yn glir, ac felly rwy'n cefnogi ymgyrch FAST, ac mae gennyf ddiddordeb mewn sicrhau y gallwn gydweithio â phartneriaid i archwilio cyfleoedd i weld sut a phryd y gallwn redeg yr ymgyrch honno eto gyda'n gilydd yn y dyfodol. Diolch.

18:50

Diolch i'r Gweinidog a diolch i Huw Irranca-Davies am y ddadl hon. A daw hynny â thrafodion heddiw i ben.

Thank you, Minister, and thank you to Huw Irranca-Davies for that debate. And that brings today's proceedings to a close.

Daeth y cyfarfod i ben am 18:50.

The meeting ended at 18:50.