National Assembly for Wales

Can I welcome everybody to today's hybrid meeting of the Senedd's Petitions Committee? As a reminder, this meeting is being broadcast live on Senedd.tv and the Record of Proceedings will be published as usual. Aside from the procedural adaptations for conducting proceedings in a hybrid format, I remind Members that all other Standing Order requirements remain in place. 

Item 1 on today's agenda is apologies, substitutions and declarations of interest. We have no apologies, so all Members are present. I have the great pleasure of welcoming Peredur Owen Griffiths to our committee, who has joined our committee for the first time today, and I remind committee members that they should note any declarations of interest either now or at the relevant point during today's proceedings. 

Item 2 on the agenda is new petitions. Item 2.1 is P-06-1334, 'Make the Senedd More Representative of the Welsh Population'.

'This petition is calling upon the Welsh Parliament to investigate the introduction of Gender and Ethnicity Quotas within its electoral systems and calls for more representation of those from a disabled background. Furthermore, it requests what action has this Senedd and the previous five incarnations done to make the Senedd more reflective of Wales as a whole.'

There is additional information available to Members and members of the public in the packs. This was submitted by Seren Cole, with 258 signatures. I believe that Seren is watching today from school, where she is studying her A-levels, so, welcome and thank you, Seren. I will now invite members of the committee to discuss any actions that they may wish to take forward. Rhys ab Owen.

Can I reiterate the thanks by you, Chair, to the petitioner for this very important petition? It's certainly something that has been discussed probably since before Seren was born, the lack of diversity within the then National Assembly and now the Senedd. This petition comes at a very appropriate time, because Senedd reform is going to be discussed a great deal, I would imagine, in this term. We're awaiting the Senedd reform legislation at any point now, and part of that Senedd reform legislation will be to include gender quotas. I know that it doesn't go as far as Seren would want—there are no quotas with regard to ethnicity—so, my suggestion is that we forward this petition to the Senedd Reform Bill Committee and that we keep the petition open, pending receiving the Bill and the Bill being introduced to the Senedd. Diolch.

Diolch, Rhys. Any comments from Members? Joel James.

Thank you, Chair. It was just a side note, really, that the petitioner might be interested in, which is that the Local Government and Housing Committee is looking at how to increase diversity in local government, so that might be a good starting point and that might even be fed into the report that Rhys mentioned then, as well. That's all I have to say on that.

Diolch, Joel. Any comments from other Members? Do Members agree? Yes. We'll action those points, and again, thanks to Seren for engaging with this committee.

Item 2.2 is P-06-1344, 'Moderate quality agricultural land (grade 3b) should be used for food security not solar farms'.

'We must conserve 3b land to safeguard food security:

'Only 10-13% of Wales is Best & Most Versatile land (grades 1-3a). Climate change risks change to agricultural land grades

'3b land supports crops

'Solar farms with 3a land within 3b land parcels are being approved (contrary to Welsh Government policy). Construction/decommission permanently damage land; 3a land will be lost

'Dual-purpose claims to offset land loss have no contractual obligation—sheep rarely graze under solar panels.'

There is additional information available to Members and members of the public as well. This was submitted by the Campaign Against East Vale Over Development, with 271 signatures, and I invite committee members to discuss this petition and any actions that they may wish to take. Joel James.

Thank you, Chair. I understand, at the moment, that the Welsh Government is looking to publish evidence into the impact of solar photovoltaic sites on agricultural land, and I was wondering whether or not—. They've offered to share that review with us as well, so I think it might be best to keep this petition open until we get that review and see what the lay of the land is, I suppose, with no pun intended there, sorry.

Diolch, Joel. Any further comments? Are Members in agreement? They are. Thank you, Joel.

Item 2.3, P-06-1345, 'Make conservation management plans compulsory for scheduled monuments at risk such as Ruperra Castle'.

'Built in Caerphilly, 1626, Ruperra Castle is significant in Welsh history, one of only a handful of Pageant Castles left in the UK. It was home to the Morgan family and played host to Charles I, and the military in WWII. In 1941 it was gutted by fire and it is still a ruin at risk. A scheduled monument and Grade II* listed building, yet it has deteriorated through private ownership. One of the towers has fallen and without considered intervention it will deteriorate further and soon be lost…'

There is additional information available to Members and members of the public, and this was submitted by Ruperra Castle Preservation Trust, a member-led charity, that myself, committee member Joel James and other Members of the Senedd had the pleasure of meeting with this afternoon, where I was kindly gifted one of the maps of the walking routes that you can use to go and see the Grade II listed building and its surrounding areas. I know new committee member Peredur Owen Griffiths has also been a big supporter of and visited the castle on many occasions as well. They have collected, in total, 10,555 signatures. I will now bring Members in to discuss this particular petition and any actions we may wish to take as a committee. I'm looking at Peredur Owen Griffiths.

But it's also great to welcome the members of the trust here to listen in on this item. I know the passion that they have for this monument, but also other monuments and the wider implications of what's been happening in Ruperra. I've noted some of the comments made by the Minister in response to this petition. I think it's been a huge effort for the group to get to over 10,000 signatures. It's also raised a few more questions that I think probably would need to go into a debate to get the most out of it and to move some of these things forward, so I think it's important that sites like this have a decent discussion. It deserves to be discussed on the floor of the Senedd, in my opinion. I've visited the site, so I think it would be good for this committee to recommend that we have a debate on this and see if the Business Committee will allow us some time for a debate.

Diolch, Peredur. Any comments from other Members? Joel James.

Thank you, Chair. I just wanted to add my support for Peredur's comments there. As you know, we're getting a lot of petitions like this coming in, and we've had loads of debates on similar things in the Chamber recently. I think it just goes to show the strength of feeling that communities have, where there is almost a powerlessness to try and preserve what they want in the historic environment. Unfortunately, we saw last week Guildford Crescent in Cardiff being demolished, and I definitely think there's scope here to have, again, that wider debate about how we look after our historic environment and how we implement community responses more, if that makes sense; how they can have more of a say in preserving their environment and that sort of thing. Thank you.

Diolch, Joel, for that. Any further comments from Members, supportive of—? Yes. Okay, so we will write to Business Committee, following the suggestion from Peredur and supported by Joel and other Members, to request a debate in Senedd time and wait to hear their response. Hopefully, we can put some of the well-thought-out arguments from the preservation trust, the charity, which I've certainly heard in the short time this afternoon and seeing you on the floor of the Senedd and on the record in a Senedd debate.

Item 2.4, P-06-1346, 'Provide free and accessible public transport for under 18s in Wales to lower carbon emissions and boost growth'.

'Public transport plays a pivotal role in linking Welsh children to educational, social and work opportunities.

'However, in light of the cost of living crisis, as well as the climate crisis, it is imperative that the Welsh Government incentivises public transport in order to lower carbon emissions and improve economic growth.

'The ENYA conference in 2022, at which 2 young Welsh representatives were present, called on the Welsh Government to "provide reliable and affordable public transport".'

There is, again, additional information available to Members. It was submitted by Charlie Steven Evans, with 381 signatures in total. I now invite Members to discuss this petition and any actions they may wish to take. Rhys ab Owen.

Diolch, Cadeirydd, and I'd like to thank the petitioner for this very important petition. We all know the huge reliance that young people have on public transport to go to school, to go to social events, et cetera, and we know that they are disproportionately affected by the increased costs in public transport. I appreciate the funding difficulties facing Welsh Government at the moment, but this is very important. I see that the Welsh Youth Parliament have a survey on public transport that they are going to publish later on in this term. My recommendation would be that we await that survey, that we keep the petition open, and that we reconsider it in light of the survey results. Diolch yn fawr.

Diolch, Rhys. Any comments? Do Members agree? Thank you.

Item 2.5, P-06-1347, 'Review Additional Learning Needs policies & make compulsory to FULLY train all teachers and TAs in regulation techniques'.

'A review of the ALN policies in schools and a huge increase in support for the 40% of children who are struggling daily is needed. They need to be taught regulation techniques from early years, creating happier, less disruptive classrooms & providing a tool box to take through life. Long term, decreasing mental health issues, drug and alcohol abuse and lowering crime rates.

'There are very few Welsh language Specialist Training Facilities discriminating against a right to Welsh medium education.'

There is additional information available to Members and members of the public on this petition. It was submitted by Clare Anna Mitchell with 6,353 signatures. I now invite committee members to discuss this petition and any actions they may wish to take. Buffy Williams.

Thank you, Chair, and I'd like to thank the petitioner for putting forward this very important petition. I am a member of the Children, Young People, and Education Committee, and at the moment, we are doing a very large piece of work around this subject. I wonder if we as a committee could share the petition with the Children, Young People, and Education Committee, and ask that this petition become part of their inquiry, and also ask them to address whether or not this question could be asked and whether or not the training should be mandatory. I think that it's really important that the Children, Young People, and Education Committee has a chance to see this petition, and as a committee, we can follow the piece of work that the Children, Young People, and Education Committee are doing and report back to the petitioner in that way.

Thank you, Buffy. Do Members agree? Peredur.

Yes, I think this is very important. I don't think we should lose sight of it, so asking the other committee to look into it and then bringing it back once we've seen the report, and then maybe if there are any gaps, we can maybe look at it then. But I think what Buffy says is a very good point.

Thank you. Are Members content? They are. Okay, so we will write to the Chair of the CYPE committee with those suggestions and, of course, share the petition with the members of the Children, Young People, and Education Committee and bring this petition back once that work has been completed to review then. Thank you.

Item 2.6, P-06-1349, 'No "15" or whatever minute Cities or Towns in Wales without holding a public poll", submitted by Stan Robinson, Voice of Wales, with 4,682 signatures. It's clear, from the response from the Deputy Minister to myself as Chair on 9 August 2023, where the Deputy Minister for Climate Change states, and I quote, 

'the Welsh Government has no plans to introduce "15-minute cities" in Wales.'

I think, given that strong response from the Deputy Minister, stating that there are clearly no such plans in Wales, this petition has run its course and I would suggest closing on that basis. Do Members agree? I can see they do. Thank you. 

Item 2.7, P-06-1350, 'Re-open Dyfi Ward at Tywyn Hospital now'. 

'We are devastated by Betsi Cadwaladr’s decision to "temporarily" close the inpatient ward at Tywyn Hospital. We want it reopened now. The action to close this ward without any consultation or notice is premeditated and lacks transparency; it is a misappropriation of our community’s public service.

'Please show us support by signing the petition.'

There is additional information available for Members, and it was submitted by Jane Eleanor Seddon Barraclough, with 1,314 signatures online and 4,214 signatures on paper, making a total of 5,528 signatures. I'll bring in committee members to discuss this petition and any actions they wish to take now. Joel James. 

Thank you, Chair. I've gone through the correspondence with this petition, and there is a massive strength of feeling against the proposals. And I was just wondering, then—. I know that there's a meeting scheduled for later in the month now with Llais, which is the new community health council, and I was wondering whether or not it would be beneficial to wait to see what the outcome of that meeting is. But I do think we could also, as a committee, if Members agree, write to the health board to highlight this petition and to see what they're doing about it, really.

Thank you for those suggestions. Any further comments? Do Members agree? They do. Okay, we'll action those points. Diolch, Joel. 

Item 2.8, P-06-1351, 'To bring in availability of heart-screening for all 11-35yr olds who play Sport.'

'Out of 269 sudden deaths in young people, 49 occurred in competitive athletes with undiagnosed heart conditions. It is important to note that heart-screening has been compulsory in all teenagers and adults competing in athletic sports in Italy since 1982, with other European countries offering similar screening. Wales and the UK lacks sadly behind here. It would be good to see Wales taking the UK lead in this.'

It was submitted by Sharon Owen, with 3,671 signatures, and I bring committee members in to discuss this petition and any actions they may wish to take. Peredur Owen Griffiths. 

Yes, it's an interesting petition and a very emotive subject. I've looked through some of the evidence that we've had and some of the correspondence that we've had from different aspects, and the one that strikes me is that the British Heart Foundation Cymru wrote to the committee saying that the British Heart Foundation does not support this petition.

'Unfortunately, heart screening is far too inaccurate and not yet at a scientific level of precision to accurately predict the risk of sudden cardiac death.'

Their fact sheet also notes that there are false positives that can 'ruin lives'. Based on some of that information and some of the strong guidance from the UK National Screening Committee to all health Ministers, there's no scope, really, to take this further. I think there's a strong case, really, to have a watching brief on it but to close this petition down currently, based on the evidence that's been provided, but to thank them for highlighting the issues, because any child or any young person losing their life is extremely tragic. But I think there are other things that can be done to monitor this sort of care. In my region and in other places, having facilities at sports grounds and that sort of thing—defibrillators and that sort of thing—does help with this. On this, I think close the petition down currently, thanking them very much for highlighting it, but taking some of the advice that we've been given by some of the leading charities is important.

Diolch, Peredur. I can see—. Are Members content? Any comments? No. I'd just state as well that this committee has previously done some work on a similar petition, in the January of 2022, as well. But I can see Members are content to agree that suggestion, given the strong intervention from British Heart Foundation and also the Minister as well. So, thank you, Peredur. We'll action that.

Item 2.9, P-06-1352, 'Approve the construction of the Third bridge over the Menai Strait'.

'The Welsh Government's Road Review Panel has finally concluded that the Third Menai crossing should not be built due to concerns around Climate Change. Whilst we all understand and appreciate the issues surrounding the Climate, this decision is a huge blow for the residents of Anglesey and for anyone who regularly commutes across the Menai Strait.'

There is further information available to Members and members of the public. It was submitted by Emyr Owen, with 362 signatures. I'd like to bring committee members in to discuss this petition and any actions they may wish to take. Rhys ab Owen.

Diolch yn fawr, Cadeirydd. This is another topic that has been widely discussed and debated. The North Wales Transport Commission are considering Menai at the moment, and they're due to report to the Minister later this term. My suggestion is that we await that report and await the Deputy Minister's response to that report and reconsider the petition at that point, albeit bearing in mind that, with difficult finances at the moment, and with the policy intentions of Welsh Government, it is unlikely that a third crossing will be erected, but I think it's worth us waiting for the commission's report and the Deputy Minister's response to that.

All in agreement? Okay. Item 2.10, P-06-1354, 'The Welsh Government should support greyhound racing in Wales'.

'The Welsh Government are currently considering banning greyhound racing in Wales.

'This potential ban has been brought on through a petition submitted by a charity. I believe the information used to create that petition was not factually correct and that they used massively inflated figures on the number of injured greyhounds with no supporting evidence. The charity has been asked for evidence on multiple occasions but refused. The petition gained 35k signatures but less than 19k of these signatures came from within Wales.'

There is additional information available to Members. This has been submitted by David Tams, with 10,601 signatures—2,948 of those from Wales. As the petition text alludes to, there is also a petition that has been debated. This committee undertook an inquiry and then debated a report on greyhound racing in Wales. The Minister with responsibility for animal welfare is going to consult on the matter. We have kept the first petition, in support of a ban on greyhound racing, open whilst that consultation is open. I therefore suggest we do the same with this petition. That is the appropriate place to highlight their concerns and ideas around animal welfare and the question of whether or not greyhound racing should be banned in Wales. Therefore, I suggest we put the two petitions together, keep them open, and review on the back of that consultation. Joel James.

Thank you, Chair. As you know, when we debated this the first time in the Chamber, I think I was one of the only Members who spoke not necessarily in support or against either way, but, basically, arguing, I think, that more needed to be done before we looked at banning it. And I still think that's the case. But I agree with you here; I don't necessarily see what having another debate would achieve, especially when there are so many other petitions that need to be debated as well. And I agree with you—in this case, I think we need to keep it open and address both petitions when that consultation has run its course. 

Thank you, Joel. Peredur Owen Griffiths. 

My opposition to greyhound racing is noted on the record, so it doesn't come as any surprise that I'm not in favour of this particular petition, but, in the same way as Joel, there are obviously two petitions that have both gained a considerable following, and I think it's prudent to wait for the review and things to happen through the Minister, and to look at them again once the information comes back from the Minister on that. 

Diolch, Peredur. Any other comments from Members? No. I can see they're in agreement. And just a final note to encourage those on both sides of the argument here to engage with that Welsh Government consultation, because that is the right avenue to do so. 

Item 2.11, P06-1355—'Hold a referendum seeking approval from the people to increase Assembly members by 36'. 

'While many are struggling to feed and heat themselves, politicians in Cardiff Bay are demanding that we taxpayers fund an extra 36 expensive Senedd Members, their additional staff and associated trappings of power.'

It was submitted by Nigel Dix, with 942 signatures. I invite committee members to discuss this particular petition and any actions they may wish to take. Peredur Owen Griffiths. 

Well, I think we're probably going to be spending quite a bit of time in Plenary and in committees, and there's a special committee been set up for the purposes of discussing these points, and, obviously, other committees within this place are going to be discussing a lot of these facts, especially the Finance Committee. I chair the Finance Committee; we'll be looking at the finances of this in detail. So, I would suggest that we close this petition and we let the legislative process run its course, and all the inquiries and the scrutiny to be happening in other committees. 

Diolch, Peredur. Any further comments? Are Members supportive? Yes. 

Okay. Item 2.12, P06-1356, 'Introduce comprehensive safety measures at the A477 "Fingerpost" junction'. 

'On Saturday 13 May 2023 Ashley Thomas Rogers tragically lost his life at the A477 "Fingerpost" junction travelling towards Pembroke. His death marked the third fatality on that stretch of road within the space of 12 years. Further, there have been innumerable near misses on what is known locally as a "black spot" for road traffic accidents. Enough is enough. This petition calls upon the Welsh Government to do the right thing and prioritise human life over trivial budgeting pressure.'

It was submitted by Elliott Morrison, with 10,310 signatures in total. Before I hand over to Members to discuss this particular petition, I want to put on record that our thoughts are very much with the family and friends of Ashley Thomas Rogers and those who have been affected by this junction in the past years. And the committee, in what is clearly an emotive subject, sends our thoughts and prayers to them. 

Okay, I will now invite Members to discuss this petition, and any action they may wish to take. Joel James. 

Thank you, Chair. And I think I speak for the rest of the committee where we share your thoughts with that, and completely endorse them. As you said, yes, this is quite a dangerous road, from reading about it, and it's definitely hit over the debate threshold, so I definitely think there is scope to have that debate. I know the local Member, Sam Kurtz, has been pushing for that, and I'm keen to support him there. And I also note, Chair, that you've mentioned that you're keen to meet with him on site as well, and so maybe what we could do as a committee is to facilitate that, push this for debate, and for you to meet with Sam then to see what can be done.

Thank you, Joel. I can see Members have agreement with that. I will have a discussion with the local Member, Sam Kurtz, about trying to facilitate such a visit to the junction and a meeting, and, of course, report back on how that went, and we'll write to the Business Committee on the back of that to call for a debate. But, again, thoughts very much with Ashley's family and all those who've been affected by that tragedy and other tragedies in the past.

Item 3, updates to previous petitions: 3.1, P-06-1269, 'Don't let the plan run out for dying people in Wales', submitted by Marie Curie and MNDA. We've brought this back to committee a number of times now, but I will invite committee members to discuss this petition and any actions they may wish to take. Buffy Williams.

Thank you, Chair. I'd like to thank Marie Curie and the Motor Neurone Disease Association for their outstanding work on this petition. I can see that they welcome the Minister’s response and that they understand that this petition could go no further. In saying that, I'd like to thank them again for this outstanding piece of work that they've done, and I suggest that we close this petition, but, as Members, we monitor the group that has been set up by the Minister to ensure that this piece of work isn't forgotten about.

Do Members agree? They do.

Item 3.2, P-06-1297, 'Stop "Controlled Burning" in Wales', submitted by Maya James, with 604 signatures. I bring in Rhys ab Owen to discuss this particular petition.

Diolch yn fawr, Cadeirydd. It appears we're at an impasse with this petition. The Minister believes that the relevant regulations with regard to controlled burning are satisfactory, whilst the petitioner and others, such as RSPB, are of a different view. We've raised that view with the Minister, we've raised the concerns with the Minister, but she remains steadfast that the regulation is appropriate. Therefore, I can't see what more we as a committee can do, other than to thank the petitioner for raising this important matter and to close the petition.

Are Members content? They are.

Item 3.3, P-06-1327, 'Leisure Centre amenities free for children', submitted by Tomos Michael Rogers, with 371 signatures. I bring Peredur Owen Griffiths to discuss this petition.

First, I'd like to thank the children and the student members of Ysgol Mynydd Bychan for bringing this petition. It's good for raising the idea. As with a lot of things, when you come up with the idea, then you look into it in detail, and the response we've had off Welsh Local Government Association responds to some of the challenges defining what would be free, and how costs would be met and a little bit tricky in the short and long term. We all agree that we should be doing whatever we can to encourage young people to live healthy, active lives. Some of the initiatives to encourage people to be active—there would be real practical challenges involving making everything free. So, I think there are a couple of issues there. So, I think we'd thank the school for bringing this to our attention. I think it's raised a lot of questions, and we'll keep reviewing it from Members' points of view, but I think it's probably run its course with this committee. I think that if we could close this petition down, but hope that the correspondence that they've had from the Minister and from the WLGA will be useful, and for the children to come up with new petitions in the future.

Diolch, Peredur. I can see Members agree with those suggestions, and, again, to encourage, perhaps, other students and schools across Wales to follow Ysgol Mynydd Bychan's lead in using the petitions process here in the Senedd. We look forward to seeing other schools run similar campaigns in their own right.

Item 3.4, P-06-1336, 'Free Welsh lessons for everyone who wants to learn the language in Wales', submitted by Elfed Wyn ap Elwyn, with 858 signatures. I bring Buffy Williams in to discuss this petition.

Thank you, Chair. I'd like to thank the petitioner for bringing forward this petition. I think the Minister has made himself clear that Welsh language lessons are not going to be free. I'm disappointed with that decision, but thankfully the centre for Welsh learning outlines a range of options and specific free support. So, I suppose that's something we can point the petitioner in the direction of. I'm not quite sure where else we can go with this petition, so, in saying that, I think that we should thank the petitioner again and close this petition.

Peredur Owen Griffiths.

Diolch, Peredur. I want to share my thanks as well, as the Chair, to the avid Senedd petitioner, Elfed Wyn ap Elwyn, who has a number of petitions in the system, and previously has had petitions as well. I think we're debating one of his successful petitions on Wednesday of this week, so I'm sure we'll hear more from Elfed in the future also. But I think Members would agree with the comments that have been made by Buffy and Peredur just now.

Item 3.5, P-06-1338, 'Extend the bus emergency scheme and develop national bus recovery plan', submitted by Andrew Jenkins, with a total of 1,025 signatures. I bring Joel James in to discuss this petition.

Thank you, Chair. I'm conscious, over the recess now, that I think the momentum behind this has grown even more, really. I think there's serious concern about the future of local and rural bus services. I know Cardiff Council has announced the discontinuation of a number of services, which is not necessarily helping the situation, as the Welsh Government wants us to move away from our cars, but the public transport system is just not there for that at the moment. I also remember, going over the recess now, that the older people's commissioner also released a statement about the continuing isolation of older generations in terms of a lack of public toilets in city centres, but then also an inability to get on and catch regular bus transport. I was wondering whether or not there's scope to actually bring them into this debate further now, to write to the older people's commissioner, and also maybe charities like Age Concern or Age Cymru, to see what their views are on this, and how the elderly and the older generations can be more brought in to the debate about this, actually, because I think they're the ones that will be hampered the most.

Diolch, Joel. Peredur Owen Griffiths.

Yes, I agree with Joel there. I think this is, again, a very topical petition. I think writing to Age Cymru and the older people's commissioner would be good. Beyond that, speaking to young people—there are similar issues in trying to get around. And with bus services diminishing across Wales, it's still more of a—. I think we should keep this open and see what more pressure we can give as a committee.

Thank you, both, for those suggestions. May I add an additional suggestion? Perhaps we may want to seek the views of Carolyn Thomas, Member of the Senedd for North Wales, who's worked—I think Carolyn has asked the question every day in the Senedd towards the end of last year on this matter. She might be able to assist the committee further with some further thoughts as well. Do Members agree? Yes.

Item 3.6, P-06-1340, 'Stop the change of speed limits to 20mph on 17th September', submitted by Benjamin James Watkins, with a total of 21,919 signatures. We should say this petition was closed early, from agreement with the petitioner and committee, to ensure that a debate was brought forward by the committee in Senedd time at the end of last term. We ensured that happened; that has taken place. This petition has now run its course and it's for, I would suggest, local Members to continue to raise the issues that their constituents are putting forward to them. Do Members agree? They do. Good.

Item 4, then, on today's agenda—we do now conclude today's public business. Can I, in accordance with Standing Order 17.42(ix), propose that the committee resolves to meet in private, where we will discuss our forward work programme and look back at some evaluation of last year's petition of the year award, which was successfully won by Mark Allen's law—Leeanne Bartley from the Mark Allen's law campaign? Members are content? They are. Diolch yn fawr. We will be back on 25 September for our next Senedd Petitions Committee session. Diolch yn fawr. Meeting closed.