Y Cyfarfod Llawn
Plenary
07/06/2023Cynnwys
Contents
Yn y fersiwn ddwyieithog, mae’r golofn chwith yn cynnwys yr iaith a lefarwyd yn y cyfarfod. Mae’r golofn dde yn cynnwys cyfieithiad o’r areithiau hynny.
In the bilingual version, the left-hand column includes the language used during the meeting. The right-hand column includes a translation of those speeches.
Cyfarfu'r Senedd yn y Siambr a thrwy gynhadledd fideo am 13:30 gyda'r Llywydd (Elin Jones) yn y Gadair.
The Senedd met in the Chamber and by video-conference at 13:30 with the Llywydd (Elin Jones) in the Chair.
Prynhawn da a chroeso, bawb, i'r sesiwn lawn o'r Senedd. Y cwestiynau i'r Gweinidog Newid Hinsawdd sydd gyntaf ar ein hagenda ni'r prynhawn yma, ac mae'r cwestiwn cyntaf gan Sioned Williams.
Good afternoon and welcome to this Plenary meeting of the Senedd. The first item is questions to the Minister for Climate Change, and the first question is from Sioned Williams.
1. A wnaiff y Gweinidog roi diweddariad ar strategaeth y Llywodraeth i wella’r amgylchfyd trefol yng Ngorllewin De Cymru? OQ59611
1. Will the Minister provide an update on the Government's strategy to improve the urban environment in South Wales West? OQ59611
Diolch, Sioned. We are shaping healthier urban environments through our Transforming Towns programme. Green infrastructure is encouraged in placemaking support proposals, improving biodiversity, quality of life, whilst helping tackle climate change. We continue to support the enhancement of community green spaces where people live and work through our Local Places for Nature projects.
Diolch, Sioned. Rydym yn creu amgylcheddau trefol iachach drwy ein rhaglen Trawsnewid Trefi. Anogir seilwaith gwyrdd mewn cynigion am gymorth i greu lleoedd, gan wella bioamrywiaeth, ansawdd bywyd, wrth helpu i fynd i'r afael â newid hinsawdd. Rydym yn parhau i gefnogi'r gwaith o wella mannau gwyrdd cymunedol lle mae pobl yn byw ac yn gweithio drwy ein prosiectau Lleoedd Lleol ar gyfer Natur.
Diolch, Weinidog. Recently published research by Professor Ross Cameron of the University of Sheffield highlights the environmental importance of natural gardens. They play a vital role in cooling urban areas, absorbing rain, thereby reducing the risk of flash flooding, and offering much needed refuge, of course, for wildlife. The report outlines some of the trends of garden design and maintenance that are damaging for the urban environment, and one of these is the use of artificial grass. Artificial grass is made of plastic and other synthetic materials, which, despite the perception of being maintenance free, requires regular cleaning and has a life span of eight to 15 years, after which sustainable disposal can be challenging. Aside from reducing the benefits of natural gardens, using artificial grass carries other environmental implications, such as hindering the habitat of earthworms and insects, while the leaching of microplastics can harm wildlife.
I wrote to Swansea Council, in my region, about this issue after being alerted to the fact that artificial grass had been used in the city regeneration work. They answered saying that this would not be used by the council in the public realm, even on a temporary basis, going forward. So, will you commit, today, Minister, to following the good example of Swansea Council by committing to the banning of the use of artificial grass in spaces over which the Government has control, with the exception of sports fields? And will you also consider supporting some of the suggestions by Professor Cameron, such as providing financial incentives to encourage and reward sustainable garden management?
Diolch, Weinidog. Mae ymchwil a gyhoeddwyd yn ddiweddar gan yr Athro Ross Cameron o Brifysgol Sheffield yn tynnu sylw at bwysigrwydd amgylcheddol gerddi naturiol. Maent yn chwarae rhan hanfodol yn oeri ardaloedd trefol, yn amsugno glaw, ac felly'n lleihau'r perygl o fflachlifoedd, ac yn cynnig lloches sydd ei hangen yn fawr ar fywyd gwyllt. Mae'r adroddiad yn amlinellu rhai o dueddiadau cynllunio a chynnal a chadw gerddi sy'n niweidiol i'r amgylchedd trefol, ac un o'r rhain yw'r defnydd o laswellt artiffisial. Gwneir glaswellt artiffisial o blastig a deunyddiau synthetig eraill, sydd angen ei lanhau'n rheolaidd, er gwaethaf y canfyddiad nad oes angen gwaith cynnal a chadw arno, ac mae ganddo oes o wyth i 15 mlynedd, ac ar ôl hynny, gall fod yn heriol cael gwared arno mewn modd cynaliadwy. Yn ogystal â lleihau manteision gerddi naturiol, mae canlyniadau amgylcheddol eraill i ddefnyddio glaswellt artiffisial, megis amharu ar gynefin pryfed genwair a phryfed, a gall trwytholchi microplastigau niweidio bywyd gwyllt.
Ysgrifennais at Gyngor Abertawe, yn fy rhanbarth, am y mater hwn ar ôl clywed bod glaswellt artiffisial wedi'i ddefnyddio yng ngwaith adfywio'r ddinas. Fe wnaethant ateb gan ddweud na fyddai'r cyngor yn ei ddefnyddio ar dir cyhoeddus, hyd yn oed dros dro, wrth symud ymlaen. Felly, a wnewch chi ymrwymo, heddiw, Weinidog, i ddilyn esiampl dda Cyngor Abertawe drwy ymrwymo i wahardd glaswellt artiffisial mewn lleoedd sydd o dan reolaeth y Llywodraeth, ac eithrio caeau chwaraeon? Ac a wnewch chi hefyd ystyried cefnogi rhai o awgrymiadau'r Athro Cameron, megis darparu cymhellion ariannol i annog a gwobrwyo rheolaeth gynaliadwy ar erddi?
Thank you, Sioned. It's a really important question for a number of reasons. Artificial grass really does have a very, very bad effect on the local sustainability of a large number of areas in Wales. As you rightly said, there is a short-term focus on, maybe, it being lower maintenance, but, actually, weeds come up through artificial grass. It can be very difficult to clean, if an animal has been on it, and, actually, there are quite worrying reports from a number of university sources, saying that the toxicity coming off artificial grass, if it's played on by children and so on, is quite alarming. So, actually, I really do think we need to get a public information campaign going about why it isn't the short-term solution it looks like for people. I've also noticed a slightly worrying tendency for artificial hedges and pots and things. You only have to look at those after one autumn of rain to see that they've leached the colour out of them and they've gone into the environment. So, I think it really is an important issue. We will be looking at all of our guidance and working with our local authorities to make sure that it isn't used in any publicly funded space, but I also want to get a piece of evidence going to (a), do a public information campaign about the problems with artificial grass, and (b), explore whether our new single-use plastics Bill, which got the royal seal—. I was at the sealing ceremony on Monday, and I hope it's on its way to you, if it hasn't arrived already, Llywydd. That gave us the ability to add in other plastics for banning, so I really want to explore proactively whether it's possible to do it through that route as well.
Diolch yn fawr, Sioned. Mae'n gwestiwn pwysig iawn am sawl rheswm. Mae glaswellt artiffisial yn cael effaith wael iawn ar gynaliadwyedd lleol nifer fawr o ardaloedd yng Nghymru. Fel y dywedoch chi, yn gwbl gywir, mae ffocws tymor byr ar y syniad fod angen llai o gynnal a chadw arno efallai, ond mewn gwirionedd, mae chwyn yn tyfu drwy laswellt artiffisial. Gall fod yn anodd iawn ei lanhau, os oes anifail wedi bod arno, ac mewn gwirionedd, mae adroddiadau o nifer o ffynonellau prifysgol yn peri cryn bryder gan eu bod yn dweud y gall glaswellt artiffisial fod yn wenwynig os yw plant yn chwarae arno ac ati. Felly, mewn gwirionedd, rwy'n credu'n wirioneddol fod arnom angen ymgyrch gwybodaeth i'r cyhoedd ynglŷn â pham nad yw'n ateb tymor byr effeithiol i bobl mewn gwirionedd. Rwy'n pryderu hefyd am y duedd i gael gwrychoedd a photiau artiffisial ac ati. Nid oes ond angen ichi edrych ar y rhain ar ôl un hydref o law i weld bod y lliw wedi llifo allan ohonynt ac i'r amgylchedd. Felly, credaf ei fod wir yn fater pwysig. Byddwn yn edrych ar ein holl ganllawiau ac yn gweithio gyda'n hawdurdodau lleol i sicrhau nad yw'n cael ei ddefnyddio mewn unrhyw le a ariennir yn gyhoeddus, ond rwy'n awyddus i gael tystiolaeth hefyd er mwyn (a), cynnal ymgyrch wybodaeth i'r cyhoedd ynglŷn â'r problemau gyda glaswellt artiffisial, a (b), archwilio a yw ein Bil cynhyrchion plastig untro, a gafodd gymeradwyaeth frenhinol—. Roeddwn yn y seremoni gymeradwyo ddydd Llun, a gobeithio ei fod ar ei ffordd atoch, os nad yw wedi cyrraedd yn barod, Lywydd. Mae hwnnw wedi rhoi'r gallu inni ychwanegu plastigau eraill i'w gwahardd, felly rwy'n awyddus iawn i fynd ati'n rhagweithiol i archwilio a oes modd ei wneud drwy'r llwybr hwnnw hefyd.
In 2007, the world passed a little noticed but critical landmark, the point at which, for the first time in history, more humans were living in towns and cities than in the countryside. In Wales, two thirds of us live in urban areas. It is therefore vital that we do all we can to improve the urban environment. That means not just tackling air pollution in our towns and cities or tackling the travesty that is the dumping of sewage into rivers like the Towy and the Ogmore, but also improving access to green spaces in our urban areas. Minister, what steps are you taking to protect green spaces in urban areas and ensure that every community has free and ready access to such spaces?
Yn 2007, heb yn wybod i lawer, pasiodd y byd garreg filltir hollbwysig, sef y pwynt lle roedd mwy o bobl am y tro cyntaf erioed yn byw mewn trefi a dinasoedd nag yng nghefn gwlad. Yng Nghymru, mae dwy ran o dair ohonom yn byw mewn ardaloedd trefol. Mae'n hanfodol, felly, ein bod yn gwneud popeth yn ein gallu i wella'r amgylchedd trefol. Mae hynny'n golygu nid yn unig mynd i'r afael â llygredd aer yn ein trefi a'n dinasoedd, neu'r arfer gwarthus o ddympio carthion i afonydd fel afon Tywi ac afon Ogwr, ond hefyd, gwella mynediad at fannau gwyrdd yn ein hardaloedd trefol. Weinidog, pa gamau rydych yn eu cymryd i amddiffyn mannau gwyrdd mewn ardaloedd trefol a sicrhau bod gan bob cymuned fynediad agored a chyfleus at fannau o'r fath?
Thank you, Altaf. It's a very important point. It's very much front and centre of our Transforming Towns initiative, where we look to create green infrastructure, as it's called. Green infrastructure is where there's a network of natural and semi-natural areas and features that contribute to high-quality environments, particularly important in urban and peri-urban spaces. One of the things I didn't respond to in Sioned's initial question was the issue about financial incentives to get people to have sustainable gardens. We're very keen to ensure that it's easier to do the right thing than it is to do the wrong thing, across Wales. My colleague Joyce Watson has on a number of occasions in the Senedd raised the fact that, actually, strictly speaking, you need planning consent to pave over a front area in an urban environment. It's not very often enforced in Wales, but we have been writing out to local authorities regularly to remind them that they need to consider the run-off point from that, because it's not just about biodiversity; it's actually about sustainable water systems as well, so it's very important for that.
We need to find a socially inclusive way of making sure that people have access to green spaces, not if you're just lucky enough to have a garden—you obviously ought to use that in the most sustainable way possible—but, also, we need to make sure that everyone in an urban or peri-urban area has access to that kind of sustained green space. You simply cannot do that by having hard-paved or, indeed, artificial grass areas—that just does not produce the same quality in the environment. So, we need, as I said to Sioned, to look at a range of interventions that we can undertake, and I personally would be looking very seriously to see whether we could actually do an education campaign to make people understand the problems, and then actually look to see if we can include it in a ban.
Diolch yn fawr, Altaf. Mae'n bwynt pwysig iawn. Mae'n rhan flaenllaw o'n menter Trawsnewid Trefi, lle rydym yn ceisio creu seilwaith gwyrdd, fel y'i gelwir. Seilwaith gwyrdd yw lle mae rhwydwaith o nodweddion ac ardaloedd naturiol a lled-naturiol yn cyfrannu at amgylcheddau o ansawdd uchel, sy'n arbennig o bwysig mewn ardaloedd trefol ac ardaloedd o gwmpas trefi. Un o'r pethau na ymatebais iddynt yng nghwestiwn cychwynnol Sioned oedd y mater ynghylch cymhellion ariannol i annog pobl i gael gerddi cynaliadwy. Rydym yn awyddus iawn i sicrhau ei bod yn haws gwneud y peth iawn na'r peth anghywir, ledled Cymru. Mae fy nghyd-Aelod, Joyce Watson, wedi codi'r ffaith ar sawl achlysur yn y Senedd fod angen caniatâd cynllunio arnoch i balmantu dros yr ardal o flaen eich tŷ mewn amgylchedd trefol. Nid yw'n rheol sy'n cael ei gorfodi'n aml yng Nghymru, ond rydym wedi bod yn ysgrifennu at awdurdodau lleol yn rheolaidd i'w hatgoffa bod angen iddynt ystyried dŵr ffo mewn perthynas â hynny, gan fod hyn yn ymwneud â mwy na bioamrywiaeth yn unig; mae'n ymwneud â systemau dŵr cynaliadwy hefyd, felly mae'n bwysig iawn ar gyfer hynny.
Mae angen inni ddod o hyd i ffordd gymdeithasol gynhwysol o sicrhau bod gan bobl fynediad at fannau gwyrdd, nid yn unig os ydych yn ddigon ffodus i gael gardd—mae'n amlwg y dylech ddefnyddio honno yn y ffordd fwyaf cynaliadwy posibl—ond hefyd, mae angen inni sicrhau bod gan bawb mewn ardal drefol neu o gwmpas trefi fynediad parhaus at y math hwnnw o fan gwyrdd. Yn syml, ni allwch wneud hynny drwy gael ardaloedd sydd wedi'u palmantu, neu'n wir, wedi'u gorchuddio â glaswellt artiffisial—nid yw hynny'n cynhyrchu'r un ansawdd yn yr amgylchedd. Felly, mae angen inni edrych, fel y dywedais wrth Sioned, ar ystod o ymyriadau y gallwn eu gwneud, ac yn bersonol, byddwn yn edrych o ddifrif i weld a allem gynnal ymgyrch addysg i wneud i bobl ddeall y problemau, ac edrych wedyn i weld a allwn ei gynnwys mewn gwaharddiad.
2. A wnaiff y Gweinidog ddatganiad ar gynlluniau’r Llywodraeth i wella cysylltiadau trafnidiaeth dros y Fenai? OQ59621
2. Will the Minister make a statement on the Government's plans to improve transport links across the Menai Strait? OQ59621
Diolch am y cwestiwn.
Thank you for the question.
I have asked the north Wales transport commission to consider the resilience of access to and from Ynys Môn in addition to its original remit. The commission's interim report is due to be published this week, with final recommendations to follow in the autumn.
Rwyf wedi gofyn i gomisiwn trafnidiaeth gogledd Cymru ystyried gwytnwch mynediad i ac o Ynys Môn yn ychwanegol at ei gylch gwaith gwreiddiol. Disgwylir i adroddiad interim y comisiwn gael ei gyhoeddi yr wythnos hon, gydag argymhellion terfynol i ddilyn yn yr hydref.
Diolch am yr ateb yna. Dwi'n edrych ymlaen i weld yr adroddiad yna. Mae yna ddwy bont, wrth gwrs, ar hyn o bryd. Mi fuaswn i'n licio gofyn am sicrwydd, yn gyntaf, y bydd popeth yn cael ei wneud i leihau'r trafferthion yn lleol wrth wneud y gwaith trwsio ar y Fenai. Mae yna oleuadau traffig rŵan; mi fuaswn i'n licio sicrwydd y bydd y cyfyngiadau am gyfnodau mor fyr â phosib.
Ond mae dwy. At yr ail bont—. Mi fyddwn i'n licio estyn fy nghydymdeimlad dwysaf at deulu'r dyn fu farw mewn damwain ar 23 Mai. Mae diogelwch, wrth gwrs, yn un o'r prif ddadleuon, ynghyd â gwytnwch, dros yr angen am drydedd bont. Beth ddigwyddodd yn yr achos yma—pont Britannia wedi ei chau am naw awr, pobl yn methu â chyrraedd Ysbyty Gwynedd, disgyblion ysgol yn methu â chyrraedd ar gyfer arholiadau TGAU a lefel A. Mae'n rhaid i ni ddatrys y sefyllfa o ran gwytnwch. Dwi wedi ysgrifennu at y Gweinidog, yn argymell, fel cam cychwynnol, er bod dal angen y drydedd bont, rhoi system zipper yn ei lle, lle mae yna rwystr yn cael ei osod, i ganiatáu dwy lôn o draffig i un cyfeiriad un bore, yna symud y rhwystr er mwyn cael llif traffig y ffordd arall gyda'r nos. A gaf i sicrwydd gan y Gweinidog fod gwaith yn cael ei wneud i edrych ar hynny yn ddifrifol?
Thank you for that response. I look forward to seeing that report. There are two bridges, of course, at the moment. I would like to ask for an assurance, first of all, that everything will be done to reduce difficulties locally in doing the work on the Menai bridge. There are traffic lights now; I would like an assurance that the restrictions will be in place for as brief a period as possible.
But there are two. As regards the second bridge—. I would like to extend my sincerest condolences to the family of a man who died in an accident on 23 May. Safety, of course, is one of the main arguments, along with resilience, in the case for a third crossing. What happened in this case was that the Britannia bridge was closed for nine hours, and people couldn't get to Ysbyty Gwynedd, school pupils couldn't get to their GCSE and A-level examinations. We must resolve this situation in terms of resilience. I've written to the Minister, recommending, as an initial step, although we do need that third crossing, having a zipper system in place, where a barrier is placed to allow two lanes of traffic in one direction in the morning, and then moving that barrier so that traffic can move in the other direction in the evening. Can I have an assurance from the Minister that work is being done to look at that seriously?
Thank you. I too would like to pass on my sympathy to the family of the person who died on the bridge.
We absolutely are looking at the issues that Rhun ap Iorwerth sets out. As he knows, we've asked the Burns commission specifically to look on this. We have also commissioned a study into resilience and traffic flow issues on the Britannia bridge, and the potential impact this will have on the carriage layout. We specifically looked, as he has suggested, at the examples of the Golden Gate zipper bridge, and the Tamar crossing. And in fact, we've been in touch with the company, Tamar Crossings, and National Highways, who operate the tidal flow of traffic on the Tamar bridge and the Saltash tunnel in Plymouth. And traffic and operational information that we've gathered has been passed on to the north Wales transport commission for them to consider. So, I agree with him—I think the zipper situation looks interesting and, potentially, very useful in the context of Ynys Môn, and that work is ongoing.
Diolch. Hoffwn innau hefyd gydymdeimlo â theulu'r unigolyn a fu farw ar y bont.
Rydym yn sicr yn edrych ar y materion a nodwyd gan Rhun ap Iorwerth. Fel y gŵyr, rydym wedi gofyn i gomisiwn Burns edrych yn benodol ar hyn. Rydym hefyd wedi comisiynu astudiaeth i faterion gwytnwch a llif traffig ar bont Britannia, a'r effaith bosibl y bydd hyn yn ei chael ar gynllun y gerbytffordd. Fe wnaethom edrych yn benodol, fel yr awgrymodd, ar enghreifftiau'r system 'zipper' ar bont y Golden Gate, a phont Tamar. Ac mewn gwirionedd, rydym wedi bod mewn cysylltiad â'r cwmni, Tamar Crossings, a National Highways, sy'n gweithredu'r system draffig llanw a thrai ar bont Tamar a thwnnel Saltash yn Plymouth. Ac rydym wedi rhoi'r wybodaeth am draffig a'r wybodaeth weithredol rydym wedi'i chasglu i gomisiwn trafnidiaeth gogledd Cymru er mwyn iddynt ei hystyried. Felly, rwy'n cytuno ag ef—credaf fod system 'zipper' yn edrych yn ddiddorol, ac o bosibl, yn ddefnyddiol iawn yng nghyd-destun Ynys Môn, ac mae'r gwaith hwnnw'n mynd rhagddo.
I also extend my condolences, of course, to the family of the bereaved.
The Welsh Government carried out a consultation in 2007 over proposals that included eight options for easing traffic congestion to and from Anglesey, including a new bridge. Reports were published in 2008, 2009, 2011, and a strategic business case was submitted in 2016, which found the scheme would meet local and national needs, including journey times, reliability and access for non-vehicle road users. This need has been intensified by the announcement of the Anglesey free port. In 2017, the previous First Minister told me the Welsh Government's aim was to see the third Menai crossing open in 2022. Then, earlier this year, the Welsh Government announced it was scrapping more than 50 road-building projects, including plans for a third Menai bridge. At a press conference last month, however, the First Minister said, 'The Menai crossing remains a project we continue to explore.' Last Friday, I met again with Ynys Môn's MP, Virginia Crosbie, and businesses in the Menai Bridge area, who raised with us issues including traffic, parking and a need for a third Menai crossing. How will you therefore engage with them regarding this, as the Welsh Government continues to make up its mind about what it is going to do?
Rwyf innau hefyd yn cydymdeimlo â'r teulu sydd mewn profedigaeth.
Cynhaliodd Llywodraeth Cymru ymgynghoriad yn 2007 ar gynigion a oedd yn cynnwys wyth opsiwn ar gyfer lleddfu tagfeydd traffig i ac o Ynys Môn, gan gynnwys pont newydd. Cyhoeddwyd adroddiadau yn 2008, 2009, 2011, a chyflwynwyd achos busnes strategol yn 2016, a ganfu y byddai'r cynllun yn diwallu anghenion lleol a chenedlaethol, gan gynnwys amseroedd teithio, dibynadwyedd a mynediad ar gyfer defnyddwyr ffordd nad ydynt yn defnyddio cerbydau. Mae'r angen hwn wedi'i ddwysáu gan y cyhoeddiad am borthladd rhydd Ynys Môn. Yn 2017, dywedodd y Prif Weinidog blaenorol wrthyf mai nod Llywodraeth Cymru oedd gweld trydedd bont dros y Fenai yn agor yn 2022. Yna, yn gynharach eleni, cyhoeddodd Llywodraeth Cymru ei bod yn rhoi'r gorau i fwy na 50 o brosiectau adeiladu ffyrdd, gan gynnwys cynlluniau ar gyfer trydedd bont dros y Fenai. Mewn cynhadledd i'r wasg y mis diwethaf, fodd bynnag, dywedodd y Prif Weinidog fod 'trydedd bont dros y Fenai yn brosiect rydym yn parhau i'w archwilio.' Ddydd Gwener diwethaf, cyfarfûm eto ag AS Ynys Môn, Virginia Crosbie, a busnesau yn ardal Porthaethwy, a gododd faterion gyda ni a oedd yn cynnwys parcio a'r angen am drydedd bont dros y Fenai. Sut felly y byddwch yn ymgysylltu â hwy ynghylch hyn, wrth i Lywodraeth Cymru barhau i geisio penderfynu beth i'w wneud?
Well, thank you for taking us through the history of the bridge and the discussion of options to replace it. As Mark Isherwood knows, we published our roads review and our amended roads policy statement, which he welcomed insofar as it applied to the red route in Flintshire. We've consistently applied that same lens across all road schemes, not just ones that he wants to scrap, but all of them, and we've tried to apply that logic consistently. And that, as he said, suggested that a third crossing wasn't justified, but it did set out a series of other alternatives. And that's why I've asked the Burns commission to look seriously at that, in the context of its study of north Wales as a whole, which was indeed part of the recommendations of the Sir Peter Hendy union connectivity review, commissioned by his Government. So, I think it's good that we've worked together to take forward those recommendations. And I would expect, once the interim report is published this week, that all stakeholders across north Wales will engage with the commission to feed in their ideas, and there's an opportunity for all elected Members, and other stakeholders, to do that.
Wel, diolch am fynd â ni drwy hanes y bont a'r drafodaeth ynghylch beth i'w roi yn ei lle. Fel y gŵyr Mark Isherwood, fe wnaethom gyhoeddi ein hadolygiad ffyrdd a'n datganiad polisi diwygiedig ar ffyrdd, a gafodd ei groesawu ganddo i'r graddau ei fod yn berthnasol i'r llwybr coch yn sir y Fflint. Rydym wedi defnyddio'r un lens yn gyson wrth ystyried pob cynllun ffyrdd, nid y rhai y mae'n dymuno cael gwared arnynt yn unig, ond pob un ohonynt, ac rydym wedi ceisio cymhwyso'r rhesymeg honno'n gyson. Ac roedd hynny, fel y dywedodd, yn awgrymu nad oedd cyfiawnhad dros drydedd bont, ond nododd gyfres o ddewisiadau amgen eraill. A dyna pam fy mod wedi gofyn i gomisiwn Burns edrych o ddifrif ar hynny, yng nghyd-destun ei astudiaeth o ogledd Cymru yn gyfan, a oedd, yn wir, yn rhan o argymhellion adolygiad cysylltedd yr undeb gan Syr Peter Hendy, a gomisiynwyd gan ei Lywodraeth ef. Felly, credaf ei bod yn dda ein bod wedi gweithio gyda'n gilydd i ddatblygu'r argymhellion hynny. A phan gaiff yr adroddiad interim ei gyhoeddi yr wythnos hon, byddwn yn disgwyl y bydd yr holl randdeiliaid ledled gogledd Cymru yn ymgysylltu â'r comisiwn i fwydo eu syniadau i mewn, ac mae cyfle i'r holl Aelodau etholedig, a rhanddeiliaid eraill, wneud hynny.
Cwestiynau nawr gan lefarwyr y pleidiau. Llefarydd y Ceidwadwyr, Janet Finch-Saunders.
Questions now from party spokespeople. The Conservative spokesperson, Janet Finch-Saunders.
Diolch, Llywydd. Minister, six of the UK's top 20 most polluted rivers are here in Wales—the Rivers Teifi, Usk, Wye, Towy, the Menai strait and the River Taff. Now, according to Natural Resources Wales, sewage pollution is the top pollutant in Welsh bathing waters. Locals and visitors have been taking to the waters during this glorious weather, and I know that you're fully aware of your own responsibility and wish to ensure that it is safe for people. Now, since 2016, there have been around 450,000 storm overflow discharges in Wales. Since 2016, NRW has only sent out—only sent out, and I say that loosely—350 warning letters to Welsh Water, but, as a result of sending out 350 warning letters, Welsh Water have only been prosecuted six times. Now, that strikes me as a massive enforcement failure. What steps will you take to independently assess whether NRW have actually been taking their own responsibilities seriously and that they have been enforcing correctly?
Diolch, Lywydd. Weinidog, mae chwech o 20 afon fwyaf llygredig y DU yma yng Nghymru—afonydd Teifi, Wysg, Gwy, Tywi, Menai a Thaf. Nawr, yn ôl Cyfoeth Naturiol Cymru, llygredd carthion yw'r llygrydd mwyaf yn nyfroedd ymdrochi Cymru. Mae pobl leol ac ymwelwyr wedi bod yn heidio i'r dyfroedd yn ystod y tywydd gogoneddus hwn, a gwn eich bod yn gwbl ymwybodol o'ch cyfrifoldeb eich hun ac yn dymuno sicrhau eu bod yn ddiogel i bobl. Nawr, ers 2016, mae oddeutu 450,000 o ollyngiadau gorlifoedd storm wedi bod yng Nghymru. Ers 2016, nid yw CNC ond wedi anfon—ond wedi anfon, ac rwy'n dweud hynny'n amwys—350 o lythyrau rhybuddio at Dŵr Cymru, ond o ganlyniad i anfon 350 o lythyrau rhybuddio, dim ond chwe gwaith y mae Dŵr Cymru wedi cael eu herlyn. Nawr, ymddengys i mi fod hynny'n fethiant enfawr o ran gorfodaeth. Pa gamau y byddwch yn eu cymryd i asesu'n annibynnol a yw CNC wedi bod o ddifrif ynghylch eu cyfrifoldebau eu hunain a'u bod wedi bod yn gorfodi'n gywir?
Thank you, Janet. I'm afraid there's a very fundamental misunderstanding of the correlation between warning letters and prosecutions in your question. Obviously, NRW will prosecute somebody who isn't doing the right remedial actions. You don't prosecute somebody who's done something and then takes the right remedial actions. Prosecution is the last step where no other remedy is available.
But, turning to the substantive point, which is the question of what we are going to do about improving the water quality of the rivers—which prosecution is never going to do, actually; it's just a last stand for somebody who really isn't doing the right thing—what we need to do is to get people to do the right thing. You consistently list the things that are happening in our rivers, but you always leave out land use and agricultural pollution. Land use and agricultural pollution are big contributors to the river pollution that we experience right across Wales. There's no point in shaking your head at me, it just is; it's a matter of data. It is a combination of a whole series of things in every river in Wales. I can produce, and I'm very happy to circulate, Llywydd, for the Senedd the analysis on each river in Wales and what the top polluter is on each river in Wales, and then a sliding scale of what the issues are. But the point is it doesn't matter. We have to fix all of the issues. So, we've been running a series, as you know, of summits and then task and finish groups coming out of the summits, where each sector has looked to put its own house in order and not throw brickbats at the others.
So, the First Minister has been very clear—and all of the sectors signed up to this—that what you have to do is look to see what your sector can do to improve its problems in contributing to water pollution. So, that is, of course, the water companies, and we're in the middle of the price review, which the UK Government needs to pay particular attention to because, at the moment, it's still insisting on bill payers picking up the tab for that and that's clearly the wrong way to do it. But of course, we have to make the investment that we need for our water reserves to be right for a whole range of reasons—water quality is one of them. But actually, we're about to face what is probably a very hot summer and a very dry summer, so we've already stood up our drought teams, for example.
So, these are very complex things. It's far too simplistic to say that if NRW were to prosecute everyone they sent a warning letter to, the problem would be solved overnight. It quite clearly would not. So, I would say to you: engage with the process, engage with the active participation of each of the sectors to put their own house in order, and that includes land use and agriculture; it includes water; it includes house builders; it includes food producers; it includes absolutely everyone who relies on and contributes to our water quality in Wales, because without everyone doing it, we will not get to where we want to be.
Diolch yn fawr, Janet. Mae arnaf ofn fod eich cwestiwn yn cynnwys camddealltwriaeth sylfaenol iawn o'r gydberthynas rhwng llythyrau rhybuddio ac erlyniadau. Yn amlwg, bydd CNC yn erlyn rhywun nad ydynt yn cymryd y camau unioni cywir. Nid ydych yn erlyn rhywun sydd wedi gwneud rhywbeth ac yna'n cymryd y camau unioni cywir. Erlyn yw'r cam olaf pan nad oes ateb arall ar gael.
Ond os caf droi at y prif bwynt, sef y cwestiwn ynghylch yr hyn rydym yn mynd i'w wneud ynglŷn â gwella ansawdd dŵr yr afonydd—nad yw erlyn byth yn mynd i'w wneud; nid yw hynny ond yn gam olaf i rywun nad ydynt yn gwneud y peth iawn—yr hyn y mae angen i ni ei wneud yw sicrhau bod pobl yn gwneud y peth iawn. Rydych yn rhestru'r pethau sy'n digwydd yn ein hafonydd yn gyson, ond rydych bob amser yn anghofio sôn am ddefnydd tir a llygredd amaethyddol. Mae defnydd tir a llygredd amaethyddol yn gyfranwyr mawr at lygredd afonydd ledled Cymru. Nid oes pwynt ysgwyd eich pen, mae'n ffaith; mae'n fater o ddata. Mae'n gyfuniad o gyfres gyfan o bethau ym mhob afon yng Nghymru. Gallaf gynhyrchu, ac rwy'n hapus iawn i rannu gyda'r Senedd, Lywydd, y dadansoddiad o bob afon yng Nghymru a beth yw'r llygrwr mwyaf ym mhob afon yng Nghymru, ac yna'r raddfa gyfan o broblemau. Ond y pwynt yw nad oes ots. Mae'n rhaid inni ddatrys yr holl broblemau. Felly, fel y gwyddoch, rydym wedi bod yn cynnal cyfres o uwchgynadleddau ac yna grwpiau gorchwyl a gorffen yn dilyn yr uwchgynadleddau, lle mae pob sector wedi ceisio cael trefn arnynt eu hunain yn hytrach na thaflu bai ar y lleill.
Felly, mae'r Prif Weinidog wedi dweud yn glir iawn—ac fe wnaeth pob un o'r sectorau ymrwymo i hyn—mai'r hyn sy'n rhaid i chi ei wneud yw edrych i weld beth y gall eich sector ei wneud i wella ei broblemau'n cyfrannu at lygredd dŵr. Felly, wrth gwrs, mae hynny'n golygu y cwmnïau dŵr, ac rydym yng nghanol yr adolygiad pris dŵr y mae angen i Lywodraeth y DU roi sylw arbennig iddo, oherwydd ar hyn o bryd, mae'n dal i fynnu bod talwyr biliau yn talu am hynny, ac yn amlwg, dyna'r ffordd anghywir o wneud hyn. Ond wrth gwrs, mae'n rhaid inni wneud y buddsoddiad sydd ei angen arnom er mwyn i'n cronfeydd dŵr fod yn iawn am ystod eang o resymau—ac mae ansawdd dŵr yn un ohonynt. Ond mewn gwirionedd, rydym ar fin wynebu haf poeth iawn a sych iawn, felly rydym eisoes wedi paratoi ein timau sychder, er enghraifft.
Felly, mae'r rhain yn bethau cymhleth iawn. Mae'n llawer rhy syml dweud y byddai'r broblem wedi'i datrys dros nos pe bai CNC yn erlyn pawb y maent yn anfon llythyr rhybuddio atynt. Yn amlwg, nid yw hynny'n wir. Felly, byddwn yn dweud wrthych chi: ymgysylltwch â'r broses, ymgysylltwch â chyfranogiad gweithredol pob un o'r sectorau i gael trefn arnynt eu hunain, ac mae hynny'n cynnwys defnydd tir ac amaethyddiaeth; mae'n cynnwys dŵr; mae'n cynnwys adeiladwyr tai; mae'n cynnwys cynhyrchwyr bwyd; mae'n cynnwys pawb sy'n dibynnu ar ac yn cyfrannu at ansawdd ein dŵr yng Nghymru, oherwydd os nad yw pawb yn gwneud hyn, ni fyddwn yn cyrraedd lle rydym yn dymuno'i gyrraedd.
Thank you, but I think you've missed my question: 350 warning letters went to water companies, so, at the end of the day, perhaps the Minister wants to elaborate and tell me how many farmers you've sent warning letters to about pollution.
Now, when you hear that almost 0.5 million discharges have resulted in only six prosecutions, there can be little confidence in your own regulatory and enforcement regime. In fact, this is a problem that the Climate Change, Environment and Infrastructure Committee noted last year when we stated:
'NRW must be able to respond timely and effectively to pollution incidents, and must be prepared to take enforcement action when permit breaches occur.'
You're not telling me that only six permit breaches have occurred in Wales. Even Dr Christian Dunn from Bangor University has said that altering the rules around sewage pollution would create rapid change. He wants water bosses to face criminal investigations if a company is responsible for dumping raw sewage into rivers and seas. I agree with the principle of tougher enforcement action if it saves our rivers. Do you?
Diolch, ond credaf eich bod wedi methu ateb fy nghwestiwn: anfonwyd 350 o lythyrau rhybuddio at gwmnïau dŵr, felly, yn y pen draw, efallai yr hoffai'r Gweinidog ymhelaethu a dweud wrthyf faint o ffermwyr rydych wedi anfon llythyrau rhybuddio atynt mewn perthynas â llygredd.
Nawr, pan glywch fod bron i 0.5 miliwn o ollyngiadau wedi arwain at chwe erlyniad yn unig, ni all fod llawer o hyder yn eich cyfundrefn reoleiddio a gorfodi eich hun. Mewn gwirionedd, mae hon yn broblem a nododd y Pwyllgor Newid Hinsawdd, yr Amgylchedd a Seilwaith y llynedd, pan ddywedasom fod:
'rhaid i Cyfoeth Naturiol Cymru allu ymateb mewn modd amserol ac effeithiol i ddigwyddiadau llygredd, a rhaid iddo fod yn barod i gymryd camau gorfodi pan fydd achosion o dorri trwydded yn digwydd.'
Nid ydych yn dweud wrthyf mai dim ond chwe achos o dorri trwyddedau sydd wedi digwydd yng Nghymru. Mae hyd yn oed Dr Christian Dunn o Brifysgol Bangor wedi dweud y byddai newid y rheolau ynghylch llygredd carthion yn creu newid cyflym. Mae'n awyddus i benaethiaid cwmnïau dŵr wynebu ymchwiliadau troseddol os yw cwmni'n gyfrifol am ddympio carthion amrwd mewn afonydd a moroedd. Rwy'n cytuno â'r egwyddor o gamau gorfodi llymach os yw hynny'n arbed ein hafonydd. A ydych chi?
Well, I think perhaps, Janet, you could actually listen to the answer instead of just reading out the question that you've got in front of you. I've just told you what we are doing in Wales to tackle our water quality. It was pretty straightforward stuff. So, of course I care about it—you know perfectly well that I do. But I am telling you that that is not the only solution—just prosecuting the water companies. You do not want me to prosecute everyone who has committed a pollution incident in Wales. We would commit huge amounts of resources to the prosecutions and it would have little or no effect on the actual water quality. You do not feed a pig by weighing it.
So, you have to get to the root cause of the problem. The root cause of the problem is that every single sector in Wales contributes something to water pollution and water quality. Every single sector in Wales has to pull its weight in putting that right. That absolutely includes NRW and both water companies, but it also includes all of the land users right along the banks of every single one of our catchments—every single one of them. So, that means the house builders, the councils, the parks, the farmers—absolutely everyone. All of those people must play their part in reducing pollution. I can show you the statistics if you like, but apart from one river in Wales, the top polluter for all of our rivers is agricultural land use. There's no getting away from that—it's the raw data; there's no getting away from it.
But of course the water companies have to play their part—of course they do. And as I said to you, we're in the middle of the price review. They have to be able to pay to be able to play their part; they have to be able to invest to be able to play their part, and unless the UK Government changes its stance on what that investment programme will look like, then the water companies will not be able to invest at the level they should be able to invest in any part of the UK. Because the current plan from the UK Government is that all that investment will go on to bills and the companies that are polluting that are dividend payers—which Welsh Water is not, of course—will then still be able to pay dividends out despite the fact they haven't got themselves into the position they want to be in. So, rather than concentrate on the end, on which I completely agree with you—people who do not put their house in order should be prosecuted, but we need them to put their house in order; I agree with that—people need to put their house in order. But, instead of concentrating on beating them with a stick, you need to concentrate on putting them into a position where they can in fact tackle the pollution at the front end.
Wel, Janet, rwy'n credu efallai y gallech wrando ar yr ateb yn hytrach na dim ond darllen y cwestiwn sydd gennych o'ch blaen. Rwyf newydd ddweud wrthych beth rydym yn ei wneud yng Nghymru i fynd i'r afael ag ansawdd ein dŵr. Roedd yn eithaf syml. Felly, wrth gwrs, rwy'n poeni am hyn—fe wyddoch yn iawn fy mod. Ond rwy'n dweud wrthych nad dyna'r unig ateb—dim ond erlyn y cwmnïau dŵr. Nid ydych am imi erlyn pawb sydd wedi cyflawni trosedd llygredd yng Nghymru. Byddem yn ymrwymo llawer iawn o adnoddau i'r erlyniadau, ac ni fyddent yn cael fawr o effaith, os o gwbl, ar ansawdd y dŵr. Nid ydych yn bwydo mochyn drwy ei bwyso.
Felly, mae'n rhaid ichi fynd at achos sylfaenol y broblem. Achos sylfaenol y broblem yw bod pob un sector yng Nghymru yn cyfrannu rhywfaint at lygredd dŵr ac ansawdd dŵr. Mae'n rhaid i bob un sector yng Nghymru chwarae ei ran wrth unioni hynny. Mae hynny'n sicr yn cynnwys CNC a'r ddau gwmni dŵr, ond mae hefyd yn cynnwys yr holl ddefnyddwyr tir ar hyd glannau pob un o'n dalgylchoedd—pob un ohonynt. Felly, golyga hynny yr adeiladwyr tai, y cynghorau, y parciau, y ffermwyr—pob un ohonynt. Mae'n rhaid i bob un o'r bobl hynny chwarae eu rhan i leihau llygredd. Gallaf ddangos yr ystadegau i chi os hoffech, ond ar wahân i un afon yng Nghymru, y llygrwr mwyaf ar gyfer ein holl afonydd yw defnydd tir amaethyddol. Nid oes dianc rhag y ffaith honno—dyna'r data amrwd; ni ellir gwadu hynny.
Ond wrth gwrs, mae'n rhaid i'r cwmnïau dŵr chwarae eu rhan—wrth gwrs hynny. Ac fel y dywedais wrthych, rydym yng nghanol yr adolygiad pris dŵr. Mae'n rhaid iddynt allu talu er mwyn gallu chwarae eu rhan; mae'n rhaid iddynt allu buddsoddi i allu chwarae eu rhan, ac oni bai bod Llywodraeth y DU yn newid ei safbwynt ar sut olwg fydd ar y rhaglen fuddsoddi honno, ni fydd y cwmnïau dŵr yn gallu buddsoddi ar y lefel y dylent allu buddsoddi mewn unrhyw ran o'r DU. Oherwydd y cynllun presennol gan Lywodraeth y DU yw y bydd yr holl fuddsoddiad hwnnw'n mynd ar y biliau, a bydd y cwmnïau sy'n llygru ac sy'n talu difidendau—nad yw Dŵr Cymru yn ei wneud, wrth gwrs—yn dal i allu talu difidendau er nad ydynt wedi llwyddo i gyrraedd y sefyllfa yr hoffent fod ynddi. Felly, yn hytrach na chanolbwyntio ar y diben, ac rwy'n cytuno'n llwyr â chi ar hynny—dylid erlyn pobl nad ydynt yn cael trefn arnynt eu hunain, ond mae arnom angen iddynt gael trefn arnynt eu hunain; rwy'n cytuno â hynny—mae angen i bobl gael trefn arnynt eu hunain. Ond yn hytrach na chanolbwyntio ar eu cosbi, mae angen ichi ganolbwyntio ar eu rhoi mewn sefyllfa lle gallant fynd i'r afael â'r llygredd ar y rheng flaen.
Thank you. I have to say I actually disagree with your answer. It's not that I haven't listened to your answer, I have to agree with Dr Christian Dunn. Now, be that larger fines or criminal convictions, I believe it is timely to look at strengthening the current regulations when it comes to how water companies are operating. Nobody here should be able to defend 0.5 million situations. We need decisive action that proves that your Welsh Government is using its might in the fight against sewage. The Welsh Government needs to plunge the block on progress. Now, you yourself, Minister, promised us a report on storm overflows by March 2023. I am correct that we're now in June. Three months later, we are still waiting. Why, and for how much longer?
Minister, whilst you dismissed the fact that water companies should be facing tougher penalties and more prosecutions, will you at least have a look and review the side of NRW that is actually carrying out this enforcement action, just to see whether any actual enforcement fines have been missed? Thank you.
Diolch. Mae'n rhaid imi ddweud fy mod yn anghytuno â'ch ateb. Nid fy mod heb wrando ar eich ateb, ond mae'n rhaid imi gytuno â Dr Christian Dunn. Nawr, boed hynny'n ddirwyon uwch neu'n euogfarnau troseddol, credaf ei bod yn amserol ystyried cryfhau'r rheoliadau presennol o ran sut mae cwmnïau dŵr yn gweithredu. Ni ddylai unrhyw un yma allu amddiffyn 0.5 miliwn o sefyllfaoedd. Mae angen camau pendant arnom sy'n profi bod Llywodraeth Cymru yn defnyddio'i grym yn y frwydr yn erbyn carthion. Mae angen i Lywodraeth Cymru gael gwared ar y rhwystr rhag cynnydd. Nawr, fe wnaethoch addo adroddiad i ni, Weinidog, ar orlifoedd storm erbyn mis Mawrth 2023. Rwy'n iawn i ddweud ei bod bellach yn fis Mehefin. Dri mis yn ddiweddarach, rydym yn dal i aros. Pam, ac am faint eto?
Weinidog, er ichi ddiystyru'r ffaith y dylai cwmnïau dŵr wynebu cosbau llymach a mwy o erlyniadau, a wnewch chi o leiaf edrych ac adolygu'r ochr o CNC sy'n cyflawni'r camau gorfodi hyn, er mwyn gweld a oes unrhyw ddirwyon gorfodi wedi'u methu? Diolch.
I'm very happy, Janet, to circulate to all Members of the Senedd the list of enforcement actions that have been taken by NRW. I'll very happily do that. But, just for you to understand what I'm talking about in terms of the contribution towards pollution, I have the list here. So, by SAC catchment: eastern Cleddau, by percentage, water 11 per cent, rural land use 84 per cent, storm overflows 2 per cent, 'other' 2 per cent, for example; western Cleddau, 22 per cent water, 65 per cent pollution, 5 per cent storm overflows, 8 per cent other; Dee, 34, 48, 11; Teifi 66, 30—that's the one that's different—3, 1; Usk, 21, 67, 1, 11; Wye, 23, 72, 2, 3. So, you're tilting at the wrong windmill.
Rwy'n fwy na pharod, Janet, i ddarparu rhestr i holl Aelodau'r Senedd o'r camau gorfodi a gymerwyd gan CNC. Rwy'n fwy na pharod i wneud hynny. Ond er mwyn ichi ddeall yr hyn rwy'n sôn amdano o ran y cyfraniad tuag at lygredd, mae'r rhestr gennyf yma. Felly, yn ôl dalgylch ACA: afon Cleddau Ddu, yn ôl canran, dŵr 11 y cant, defnydd tir gwledig 84 y cant, gorlifoedd storm 2 y cant, 2 y cant 'arall', er enghraifft; afon Cleddau Wen, dŵr 22 y cant, 65 y cant llygredd, gorlifoedd storm 5 y cant, 8 y cant arall; afon Dyfrdwy, 34, 48, 11; afon Teifi 66, 30—dyna'r un sy'n wahanol—3, 1; afon Wysg, 21, 67, 1, 11; afon Gwy, 23, 72, 2, 3. Felly, rydych yn cwyno am y peth anghywir.
[Inaudible.]—enforcements have gone out to farmers, then. Answer the question.
[Anghlywadwy.]—mae hysbysiadau gorfodi wedi mynd allan i ffermwyr, felly. Atebwch y cwestiwn.
Farmers don't need a permit, of course, and that's one of the things we're currently looking at. If your party wants to suggest that all land-use users need to have a permit to put stuff on their land, you go ahead. I'd love for one of your spokespeople to get up right now and tell me that you think farmers should have a permit for putting stuff on their land.
Nid oes angen trwydded ar ffermwyr, wrth gwrs, a dyna un o'r pethau rydym yn edrych arnynt ar hyn o bryd. Os yw eich plaid am awgrymu bod angen i bob defnyddiwr tir gael trwydded i roi pethau ar eu tir, cerwch amdani. Byddwn wrth fy modd pe bai un o'ch llefarwyr yn codi ac yn dweud wrthyf eich bod yn credu y dylai ffermwyr gael trwydded i roi pethau ar eu tir.
I asked a question.
Fe ofynnais gwestiwn.
They can't be prosecuted because they don't need a permit, Janet.
Ni ellir eu herlyn am nad oes angen trwydded arnynt, Janet.
Llefarydd Plaid Cymru, Delyth Jewell.
The Plaid Cymru spokesperson, Delyth Jewell.
Diolch, Llywydd. I'd like to ask you, please, about some national issues that I think arise from what's happening in Ffos-y-fran mine in Merthyr. A few weeks ago, the local authority rejected an application for an opencast mine to continue operating. Campaigners, in the weeks since, have released footage seeming to show that mining has continued, and, last week, the local authority said that an enforcement notice had been given to the company, saying that it had to cease mining. But that will take effect on the twenty-seventh of this month, and the developer will then have an extra 28 days to comply, and there's the possibility of an appeal. So, there is a minimum of, I think, 56—. Well, from when the enforcement notice was released, there would have been a 56-day minimum period where more mining could continue past that date. Now, I realise you can't comment on individual cases like that, but could you set out whether you think, keeping in mind what's happened in Merthyr, the planning system we have is fit for purpose in that context, where a local authority can make a decision based partly on responding to the climate emergency, and a developer can find so many ways of ignoring or circumnavigating that decision?
Diolch, Lywydd. Hoffwn eich holi, os gwelwch yn dda, am rai materion cenedlaethol y credaf eu bod yn codi o'r hyn sy'n digwydd ym mhwll glo Ffos-y-fran ym Merthyr Tudful. Ychydig wythnosau yn ôl, gwrthododd yr awdurdod lleol gais i bwll glo brig barhau i weithredu. Mae ymgyrchwyr, yn yr wythnosau ers hynny, wedi rhyddhau lluniau sy'n dangos yn ôl pob golwg fod y gwaith cloddio wedi parhau, a'r wythnos diwethaf, dywedodd yr awdurdod lleol fod hysbysiad gorfodi wedi'i roi i'r cwmni, yn dweud bod yn rhaid iddynt roi'r gorau i gloddio. Ond bydd hwnnw'n dod i rym ar y seithfed ar hugain o'r mis hwn, ac yna bydd gan y datblygwr 28 diwrnod arall i gydymffurfio, ac mae posibilrwydd o apêl. Felly, rwy'n credu bod o leiaf 56—. Wel, o'r adeg y rhoddwyd yr hysbysiad gorfodi, byddai isafswm o 56 diwrnod wedi bod lle gallai mwy o gloddio barhau ar ôl y dyddiad hwnnw. Nawr, rwy'n sylweddoli na allwch wneud sylw ar achosion unigol fel hwn, ond a gan gadw mewn cof yr hyn sydd wedi digwydd ym Merthyr Tudful, wnewch chi nodi p'un a ydych chi'n credu fod y system gynllunio sydd gennym yn addas i'r diben yn y cyd-destun hwnnw, lle gall awdurdod lleol wneud penderfyniad yn rhannol ar sail ymateb i'r argyfwng hinsawdd, ac y gall datblygwr ddod o hyd i gynifer o ffyrdd o anwybyddu neu osgoi'r penderfyniad hwnnw?
I can't comment on that case. It's an ongoing case and, actually, the Welsh Ministers are party to the case. So, I can't.
But, it is a general tenet of planning law—and it's very difficult indeed to change this—that if you have an extant licence and you're subject to an appeal, you can continue to do the activity that you are appealing against while the appeal goes ahead. That is a standard point in planning law across the whole of the UK, as far as I know—I think it's true in Scotland as well—and for obvious reasons. Because, if you're building a house extension and a local authority serves an enforcement notice on you and you appeal that, you can continue to build that extension. It's not until the appeal comes to its end and is clarified by the court that you understand what the position is. It doesn't act as an injunction, effectively. So, that is just the standard position.
There are a number of other frustrating things about the planning system, which we are actively looking at. We have managed to change it for some of our new building regulations, but not for older ones. For example, once you start building a planning consent, you can carry on building it to the same standard for 100 years. We've managed to change that for new building regulations, but not for older ones. What we're looking to do is to try and make sure that you have some certainty when you get planning consent that you can build what you've been consented—because that's the problem, isn't it—and then if the rules change three years down the line and you're starting a new bit of the planning, that you have to comply with the new regulations. But you can see that if you're two thirds of the way through building a house, you can't retrofit it because the rules changed a third of the way in. So, it's a problem. I agree it's a problem. We are exploring a number of ways across Wales to see if we can clarify and simplify that, but it continues to be a problematic area.
Ni allaf wneud sylwadau ar yr achos hwnnw. Mae'n achos parhaus, ac mewn gwirionedd, mae Gweinidogion Cymru yn barti yn yr achos. Felly, ni allaf wneud hynny.
Ond mae'n un o egwyddorion cyffredinol cyfraith gynllunio—ac mae'n anodd iawn newid hyn—os oes gennych drwydded fyw a'ch bod yn destun apêl, y gallwch barhau â'r gweithgarwch rydych yn apelio yn ei erbyn tra bo'r apêl yn mynd rhagddi. Mae hwnnw'n bwynt safonol mewn cyfraith gynllunio ledled y DU gyfan, hyd y gwn i—credaf ei fod yn wir yn yr Alban hefyd—ac am resymau amlwg. Oherwydd, os ydych yn adeiladu estyniad ar dŷ ac mae awdurdod lleol yn rhoi hysbysiad gorfodi i chi ac rydych yn apelio yn ei erbyn, gallwch barhau i adeiladu'r estyniad hwnnw. Nid ydych yn gwybod beth yw'r sefyllfa tan i'r apêl ddod i ben a chael ei hegluro gan y llys. Nid yw'n gweithredu fel gwaharddeb, i bob pwrpas. Felly, dyna'r sefyllfa safonol.
Mae nifer o bethau rhwystredig eraill am y system gynllunio, ac rydym wrthi'n edrych arnynt. Rydym wedi llwyddo i'w newid ar gyfer rhai o'n rheoliadau adeiladu newydd, ond nid ar gyfer rhai hŷn. Er enghraifft, ar ôl ichi ddechrau adeiladu caniatâd cynllunio, gallwch barhau i'w adeiladu i'r un safon am 100 mlynedd. Rydym wedi llwyddo i newid hynny ar gyfer rheoliadau adeiladu newydd, ond nid ar gyfer rhai hŷn. Yr hyn rydym yn bwriadu ei wneud yw ceisio sicrhau bod gennych rywfaint o sicrwydd pan gewch ganiatâd cynllunio y gallwch adeiladu'r hyn rydych wedi cael caniatâd i'w adeiladu—oherwydd dyna'r broblem, ynte—ac yna, os yw'r rheolau'n newid dair blynedd yn ddiweddarach a'ch bod yn dechrau ar ddarn newydd o'r cynllunio, fod yn rhaid ichi gydymffurfio â'r rheoliadau newydd. Ond os ydych ddwy ran o dair o'r ffordd drwy'r broses o adeiladu tŷ, gallwch weld na allwch ei ôl-osod gan fod y rheolau wedi newid draean o'r ffordd i mewn. Felly, mae'n broblem. Rwy'n cytuno bod hynny'n broblem. Rydym yn archwilio nifer o ffyrdd ledled Cymru i weld a allwn symleiddio hynny a'i wneud yn gliriach, ond mae'n parhau i fod yn faes problemus.
Thank you for that, Minister. I wonder if thought could be given to seeing, where decisions are made planning-wise that are in the context of the climate and nature emergency, whether any change could be made or whether there's a global precedent for something like that happening. It would be interesting to know.
I'd like to ask you as well about the reclamation of land that's contaminated in cases like this—again, not specifically about this case, but arising from it. It's been known for years in this case—again, this case in Merthyr—that the mine was going to close, and there had been an understanding that millions should have been set aside for restoring the land and so on. After any project like this there should be training and transitioning provided for as well for the workforce. In Ffos-y-fran, there are significant questions as to whether there's enough money that is left for that restoration. My question to you is, on a national scale, firstly, please, how the Government prioritises the development of training programmes that would enable workers in fossil fuel-dependant sectors to transition into new jobs, and finally, what changes you think should be made—again, to the planning system—to ensure that developers are compelled to put right the damage done to land at the end of large-scale projects like this. I know this is something that you do care a lot about. Diolch.
Diolch, Weinidog. Tybed a ellid rhoi ystyriaeth i edrych, lle caiff penderfyniadau cynllunio eu gwneud yng nghyd-destun yr argyfwng hinsawdd a natur, i weld a ellid gwneud unrhyw newid neu p'un a oes cynsail byd-eang i rywbeth o'r fath. Byddai'n ddiddorol gwybod.
Hoffwn ofyn i chi hefyd am adfer tir halogedig mewn achosion fel hyn—unwaith eto, nid yn benodol am yr achos hwn, ond yn deillio ohono. Mae wedi bod yn hysbys ers blynyddoedd yn yr achos hwn—unwaith eto, yr achos hwn ym Merthyr Tudful—fod y pwll glo'n mynd i gau, a chafwyd dealltwriaeth y dylai miliynau fod wedi'u neilltuo ar gyfer adfer y tir ac yn y blaen. Ar ôl unrhyw brosiect o'r fath, dylid darparu hyfforddiant a chyfnod pontio ar gyfer y gweithlu hefyd. Yn Ffos-y-fran, ceir cwestiynau pwysig ynglŷn ag a oes digon o arian ar ôl ar gyfer y gwaith adfer hwnnw. Fy nghwestiwn i chi yw, ar raddfa genedlaethol, yn gyntaf, os gwelwch yn dda, sut mae'r Llywodraeth yn blaenoriaethu datblygiad rhaglenni hyfforddi a fyddai'n galluogi gweithwyr mewn sectorau sy'n dibynnu ar danwydd ffosil i bontio i swyddi newydd, ac yn olaf, pa newidiadau y credwch y dylid eu gwneud—unwaith eto, i'r system gynllunio—i sicrhau bod datblygwyr yn cael eu gorfodi i unioni'r difrod a wneir i dir pan ddaw prosiectau mawr fel hwn i ben. Gwn fod hyn yn rhywbeth sy'n agos at eich calon. Diolch.
Thank you very much for that, Delyth. There are a number of things there. We've just issued, via Vaughan Gething's department but in conjunction with me and with my colleague Jeremy Miles, the net-zero skills plan, and that has sections in it about how to proactively retrain people who are in industries we know we want to phase out, so that we get the just transition that we talk about. We aren't in the business of putting whole communities out of work, as was done in the past, as industries change. So, we absolutely are looking to see how we can get those training programmes and opportunities in place. We talk constantly with the incoming green infrastructure bodies about how they can be sure to be recruiting people coming out of old industries and so on. So, we're absolutely looking very proactively at that.
In terms of the remediation of contaminated land brought about by industrial use, unfortunately we are often stuck with contracts that were signed back in the day when life was a very different thing. Again, I'm very carefully not commenting on the specific case, but there are a range of issues—where opportunities have been sold on or where accounts have not been maintained or where single-purpose vehicles have gone out of business, and so on, where company bonds are no longer effective—that we need to learn from. But it is extremely difficult to do that retrospectively. You can do it on an ongoing basis from now, but unfortunately a lot of those were things that were signed off in the previous century, so it's very difficult to see how you can change them proactively upfront.
Diolch yn fawr iawn, Delyth. Mae nifer o bethau yno. Rydym newydd gyhoeddi, drwy adran Vaughan Gething, ond ar y cyd â minnau a fy nghyd-Aelod Jeremy Miles, y cynllun sgiliau sero net, sy'n cynnwys adrannau ar sut i fynd ati'n rhagweithiol i ailhyfforddi pobl sydd mewn diwydiannau y gwyddom ein bod yn dymuno dod â nhw i ben yn raddol, fel ein bod yn cael y pontio teg rydym yn sôn amdano. Nid ydym yn dymuno rhoi cymunedau cyfan allan o waith, fel y gwnaed yn y gorffennol, wrth i ddiwydiannau newid. Felly, rydym yn sicr yn edrych i weld sut y gallwn sicrhau bod rhaglenni hyfforddi a chyfleoedd ar waith. Rydym yn siarad yn gyson â'r cyrff seilwaith gwyrdd sy'n dod i mewn ynglŷn â sut y gallant fod yn sicr eu bod yn recriwtio pobl sy'n dod o hen ddiwydiannau ac yn y blaen. Felly, rydym yn sicr yn mynd ati'n rhagweithiol iawn i edrych ar hynny.
O ran adfer tir halogedig sy'n deillio o ddefnydd diwydiannol, yn anffodus, rydym yn aml yn rhwym i gontractau a lofnodwyd amser maith yn ôl pan oedd bywyd yn wahanol iawn. Unwaith eto, rwy'n ofalus iawn i beidio â gwneud sylw ar yr achos penodol, ond mae ystod o faterion—lle mae cyfleoedd wedi cael eu gwerthu, neu ble nad yw cyfrifon wedi'u cynnal, neu ble mae cyfryngau at ddibenion arbennig wedi mynd allan o fusnes, ac yn y blaen, lle nad yw bondiau cwmnïau mewn grym mwyach—y mae angen inni ddysgu oddi wrthynt. Ond mae'n eithriadol o anodd gwneud hynny'n ôl-weithredol. Gallwch ei wneud ar sail barhaus o hyn ymlaen, ond yn anffodus, roedd llawer o'r rheini'n bethau a gymeradwywyd yn y ganrif ddiwethaf, felly mae'n anodd iawn gweld sut y gallwch eu newid yn rhagweithiol ymlaen llaw.
3. A wnaiff y Gweinidog ddatganiad am lygredd yn Afon Tawe? OQ59590
3. Will the Minister make a statement on pollution in the River Tawe? OQ59590
Thank you, Mike. Protecting and enhancing our water environment is a priority for the Government. We are improving water quality by moving towards designation of inland bathing waters, strengthening river water quality monitoring and by maximising the benefits for nature through sustainable drainage systems. Natural Resources Wales is undertaking a project in the River Tawe to improve water quality, targeting the Swansea bay opportunity catchment.
Diolch yn fawr, Mike. Mae diogelu a gwella ein hamgylchedd dŵr yn flaenoriaeth i'r Llywodraeth. Rydym yn gwella ansawdd dŵr drwy symud tuag at ddynodi dyfroedd ymdrochi mewndirol, cryfhau prosesau monitro ansawdd dŵr afonydd a thrwy sicrhau'r buddion mwyaf posibl i natur drwy systemau draenio cynaliadwy. Mae Cyfoeth Naturiol Cymru yn cynnal prosiect yn afon Tawe i wella ansawdd dŵr, gan dargedu dalgylch cyfle bae Abertawe.
Thank you. I have previously raised the problem of raw sewage entering from the Trebanos treatment works. People will probably be pleased to hear that I'm not going to do that again today. But we're in a period of prolonged dry weather, meaning water levels are unusually low. From American studies, we know that excessive phosphorus in surface water can cause explosive growth of aquatic plants and algae. This can lead to a variety of water quality problems, including low dissolved oxygen concentration, which can cause fish to die and harms other aquatic life. The link between agriculture, excess phosphorus and excess algal growth in freshwater ecosystems is well established. What action is the Welsh Government taking to measure and reduce phosphate levels in the River Tawe?
Diolch. Rwyf eisoes wedi codi problem carthion amrwd o safle trin gwastraff Trebanos. Mae'n debyg y bydd pobl yn falch o glywed nad wyf am wneud hynny eto heddiw. Ond rydym mewn cyfnod hir o dywydd sych, sy'n golygu bod lefelau dŵr yn anarferol o isel. O astudiaethau Americanaidd, gwyddom y gall ffosfforws gormodol mewn dŵr wyneb achosi twf sylweddol mewn planhigion dyfrol ac algâu. Gall hyn arwain at amrywiaeth o broblemau ansawdd dŵr, gan gynnwys crynodiadau isel o ocsigen tawdd, a all achosi i bysgod farw a niweidio bywyd dyfrol arall. Mae'r cysylltiad rhwng amaethyddiaeth, ffosfforws gormodol a thwf algâu gormodol mewn ecosystemau dŵr croyw yn dra hysbys. Pa gamau y mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn eu cymryd i fesur a lleihau lefelau ffosffad yn afon Tawe?
Thank you very much, Mike. Natural Resources Wales monitors the River Tawe's condition under the water framework directive regulations. The latest data from the Tawe has 'good' ecological status and I'm very pleased to say that Swansea bay also achieved an overall bathing water quality classification of 'good' in 2022 for the fourth consecutive year. At this point, Llywydd, I should say that that's obviously my own constituency as well.
NRW is working closely with Dŵr Cymru and Swansea Council to promote the green infrastructure solutions to reduce the silt pollution from construction sites, domestic misconnections, and impact on water quality from contaminated land. They will also increase the capacity of the main sewer system and help reduce the combined sewer overflow discharges right along the Tawe basin, Mike. Of the 58 water assets that discharge to the Tawe and its tributaries, 29 of them are scheduled for full investigation under the storm overflow assessment framework, seven of them have completed investigations and 22 are scheduled for completion during this investment period, so that's up to 2025 and then there'll be another plan for post 2025. I know you already know that. And I know you know about the Trebanos works as well.
We've already stood up the drought action group for Wales. It's a timely reminder, Llywydd, that while we're all enjoying the very lovely weather that we've had over the last two weeks, I'm sure you will have noticed that water consumption goes up during periods of that sort, and whilst we were very lucky over this winter and most of our reservoirs were completely replenished or very nearly replenished, it really does not take very much for them to be back into the condition they were last year. There's apparently double the possibility of a very hot summer than usual this year. Although we're not currently predicting prolonged dry spells to go with that hot weather, it is a very timely reminder to people that husbanding water resources is something that you should do as a matter of course, all the time, because otherwise we will have severe problems, as Mike has outlined.
Diolch yn fawr iawn, Mike. Mae Cyfoeth Naturiol Cymru yn monitro cyflwr afon Tawe o dan y rheoliadau cyfarwyddeb fframwaith dŵr. Mae statws ecolegol 'da' i'r data diweddaraf o afon Tawe ac rwy'n falch iawn o ddweud bod bae Abertawe hefyd wedi cael dosbarthiad ansawdd dŵr ymdrochi cyffredinol 'da' yn 2022 am y bedwaredd flwyddyn yn olynol. Ar y pwynt hwn, Lywydd, dylwn ddweud mai fy etholaeth i yw honno wrth gwrs.
Mae CNC yn gweithio'n agos gyda Dŵr Cymru a Chyngor Abertawe i hyrwyddo'r atebion seilwaith gwyrdd i leihau llygredd silt o safleoedd adeiladu, camgysylltiadau domestig, ac effaith ar ansawdd dŵr o dir halogedig. Byddant hefyd yn cynyddu capasiti'r brif system garthffosydd ac yn helpu i leihau'r gollyngiadau gorlif carthffosydd cyfun ar hyd basn afon Tawe, Mike. O'r 58 o asedau dŵr sy'n mynd i mewn i afon Tawe a'i llednentydd, mae 29 ohonynt yn mynd i fod yn destun ymchwiliad llawn o dan y fframwaith asesu gorlifoedd storm, cwblhawyd ymchwiliad ar saith ohonynt ac mae 22 i'w cwblhau yn ystod y cyfnod buddsoddi hwn, sef hyd at 2025 ac yna bydd cynllun arall ar gyfer y cyfnod ar ôl 2025. Rwy'n gwybod eich bod eisoes yn gwybod hynny. Ac rwy'n gwybod eich bod yn gwybod am y gwaith yn Nhrebanos hefyd.
Rydym eisoes wedi cryfhau'r grŵp gweithredu ar sychder ar gyfer Cymru. Mae'n ein hatgoffa'n amserol, Lywydd, er ein bod i gyd yn mwynhau'r tywydd hyfryd iawn a gawsom dros y pythefnos diwethaf, rwy'n siŵr y byddwch wedi sylwi bod y defnydd o ddŵr yn cynyddu yn ystod cyfnodau o'r fath, ac er inni fod yn lwcus iawn dros y gaeaf a bod y rhan fwyaf o'n cronfeydd dŵr wedi ail-lenwi'n llwyr neu bron iawn, nid yw'n cymryd llawer iawn iddynt fod yn ôl i'r cyflwr roeddent ynddo y llynedd. Mae'n debyg fod dwywaith na'r arfer o bosibilrwydd y cawn haf poeth iawn eleni. Er nad ydym ar hyn o bryd yn rhagweld cyfnodau sych hir i fynd gyda'r tywydd poeth hwnnw, mae'n atgoffa pobl yn amserol iawn fod gofalu am adnoddau dŵr yn rhywbeth y dylech ei wneud fel mater o drefn drwy'r amser, oherwydd fel arall bydd gennym broblemau difrifol, fel y mae Mike wedi'i amlinellu.
I agree with you, Minister, and others in this Chamber that river pollution does need to be addressed, and I agree with the comments of the First Minister that no single measure will solve this problem. I'm very interested in the work that's been going on within the summits that you've been having, because you've said to this Chamber on a number of occasions that there have been measures identified to deal with water pollution and how we can address it through natural measures and others. I'd like to know if you could outline what measures they are and when they're going to be implemented, because the sooner that we can do that, we can clean up our rivers and also unblock the planning system across Wales.
Rwy'n cytuno gyda chi, Weinidog, ac eraill yn y Siambr hon fod angen mynd i'r afael â llygredd afonydd, ac rwy'n cytuno â sylwadau'r Prif Weinidog na ellir datrys y broblem hon drwy un mesur yn unig. Mae gennyf ddiddordeb mawr yn y gwaith sydd wedi bod yn digwydd yn yr uwchgynadleddau rydych wedi bod yn eu cael, oherwydd rydych wedi dweud wrth y Siambr hon ar sawl achlysur fod mesurau wedi'u nodi i ymdrin â llygredd dŵr a sut y gallwn fynd i'r afael ag ef trwy fesurau naturiol ac yn y blaen. Hoffwn wybod a allech chi amlinellu pa fesurau ydynt a phryd y cânt eu gweithredu, oherwydd po gynharaf y gallwn wneud hynny, y cynharaf y gallwn lanhau ein hafonydd a dadflocio'r system gynllunio ledled Cymru.
Thank you very much. It's very difficult to do that globally for Wales because, obviously, each catchment has a different set of solutions. But, by and large, the river basin management plans that we have in Wales give us a mechanism to identify and prioritise actions on the particular catchment. Then we have a whole series of working groups and action plans from the better river management quality groups and the nutrient management boards that work on all of our special areas of conservation rivers across Wales. Each of those has an action plan, signed up to at the summit, to work on the specific river catchment that they're looking at. So, those actions are ongoing.
The summit process is a summit chaired by the First Minister approximately twice a year. It's not exactly accurately twice a year, but approximately twice a year, co-chaired by me and Lesley Griffiths. And then there are individual action groups chaired by myself or Lesley Griffiths or the chair of Natural Resources Wales, on an ongoing basis, to make sure that the action plan is kept fresh and alive and that we're learning from each other. We also have a system in place to make sure that we aren't reinventing the wheel, so that nutrient management boards understand what each of them is doing and if they have work that can be shared across the piece then that's shared, and then we come together at the summit to make sure that the learning is shared across Wales.
As I've said on a number of occasions, multiple interventions are necessary. We are re-meandering, for example, in some areas where faster water flows, which were thought to be the solution at the end of the twentieth century, have proved to be very problematic. We have all the work that we are doing on combined sewage outflows, and some of the remediation that I just talked to Mike about on the Tawe is happening on a number of rivers across Wales. But we also have to address agricultural and land-use pollution, pollution from house builders, so we've got the sustainable drainage systems regime for that. One of the big issues we have is that we've allowed house building for years without a proper contribution to the sewerage network to go with those houses. And a lot of our cities are built on Victorian sewerage networks, which are not fit for purpose. So, you know, there isn't a short answer to your question; it's a complex set of intertwined actions right across Wales that we're working on to get us to where we all want to be.
Diolch yn fawr iawn. Mae'n anodd iawn gwneud hynny'n gyffredinol i Gymru oherwydd, yn amlwg, mae gan bob dalgylch set wahanol o atebion. Ond at ei gilydd, mae'r cynlluniau rheoli basn afon sydd gennym yng Nghymru yn cynnig mecanwaith inni allu nodi a blaenoriaethu camau gweithredu ar y dalgylch penodol. Yna mae gennym gyfres gyfan o weithgorau a chynlluniau gweithredu gan y grwpiau rheoli ansawdd afonydd yn well a'r byrddau rheoli maethynnau sy'n gweithio ar ein holl afonydd ardaloedd cadwraeth arbennig ledled Cymru. Mae gan bob un o'r rheini gynllun gweithredu, a gymeradwywyd yn yr uwchgynhadledd, i weithio ar ddalgylch penodol yr afon y maent yn edrych arni. Felly, mae'r camau hynny'n parhau.
Proses yr uwchgynadleddau yw cynnal uwchgynhadledd dan gadeiryddiaeth y Prif Weinidog tua dwywaith y flwyddyn. Nid yw'n union ddwywaith y flwyddyn, ond tua dwywaith y flwyddyn, yn cael ei gyd-gadeirio gennyf fi a Lesley Griffiths. Ac yna ceir grwpiau gweithredu unigol dan fy nghadeiryddiaeth i neu Lesley Griffiths neu gadeirydd Cyfoeth Naturiol Cymru, ar sail barhaus, i sicrhau bod y cynllun gweithredu'n cael ei gadw'n ffres ac yn fyw a'n bod yn dysgu oddi wrth ein gilydd. Mae gennym hefyd system ar waith i sicrhau nad ydym yn ailddyfeisio'r olwyn, fel bod byrddau rheoli maethynnau yn deall yr hyn y mae pob un ohonynt yn ei wneud ac os oes ganddynt waith y gellir ei rannu rhwng pawb, ei fod yn cael ei rannu, ac yna down at ein gilydd yn yr uwchgynhadledd i sicrhau bod y gwersi'n cael eu dysgu ledled Cymru.
Fel y dywedais ar sawl achlysur, mae angen ymyriadau lluosog. Rydym yn newid ystum afonydd, er enghraifft, mewn rhai ardaloedd lle ceir llifoedd dŵr cyflymach, y tybid eu bod yn ateb y broblem ar ddiwedd yr ugeinfed ganrif, ond sydd bellach wedi profi'n broblemus iawn. Mae gennym yr holl waith a wnawn ar orlifoedd carthffosiaeth cyfun, ac mae rhywfaint o'r gwaith adfer y soniais wrth Mike amdano ar y Tawe yn digwydd ar nifer o afonydd ledled Cymru. Ond mae'n rhaid inni fynd i'r afael â llygredd amaethyddol a defnydd tir, a llygredd adeiladwyr tai, felly mae gennym drefn systemau draenio cynaliadwy ar gyfer hynny. Un o'r problemau mawr sydd gennym yw ein bod ers blynyddoedd wedi caniatáu i dai gael eu hadeiladu heb gyfraniad priodol i'r rhwydwaith carthffosiaeth i fynd gyda'r tai hynny. Ac mae llawer o'n dinasoedd wedi'u hadeiladu ar rwydweithiau carthffosiaeth Fictoraidd nad ydynt yn addas i'r diben. Felly, wyddoch chi, nid oes ateb byr i'ch cwestiwn; rydym yn gweithio ar set gymhleth o gamau gweithredu ledled Cymru i fynd â ni i ble mae pawb ohonom eisiau bod.
Good afternoon, Minister. I note your responses to Janet Finch-Saunders, and I do think there is cross-party support for the position that you and the First Minister have taken, which is that all of the agencies are responsible for river pollution; there isn't one that we should single out and attack. And I note that the First Minister has said that he doesn't want to hear that another group is to blame, and I think there is cross-party support for that. I also agree, and I think most of us would agree, that it's about proactive action as well as reactive action. So, I wonder if I could ask you—and I do stand here a little bit in my tin hat—about the review for funding for NRW, because ultimately, in terms of the reactive responses, they are responsible, as I understand. We do know that they are struggling, so I wonder if you could just give us some information around the funding and the review that's going on around their ability to be able to carry that out effectively. Diolch yn fawr iawn.
Prynhawn da, Weinidog. Rwy'n nodi eich ymatebion i Janet Finch-Saunders, ac rwy'n credu bod cefnogaeth drawsbleidiol i'r safbwynt rydych chi a'r Prif Weinidog wedi'i gymryd, sef bod yr holl asiantaethau yn gyfrifol am lygredd afonydd; ni ddylem neilltuo un i'w geryddu. Ac rwy'n nodi bod y Prif Weinidog wedi dweud nad yw am glywed mai grŵp arall sydd ar fai, ac rwy'n credu bod cefnogaeth drawsbleidiol i hynny. Rwyf hefyd yn cytuno, ac rwy'n credu y byddai'r rhan fwyaf ohonom yn cytuno, ei fod yn ymwneud â gweithredu rhagweithiol yn ogystal â gweithredu adweithiol. Felly, tybed a gaf fi ofyn i chi—ac rwy'n sefyll yma yn fy het dun braidd—am yr adolygiad ar gyfer cyllid i CNC, oherwydd yn y pen draw, o ran ymatebion adweithiol, nhw sy'n gyfrifol, fel rwy'n deall. Rydym yn gwybod eu bod yn ei chael hi'n anodd, felly tybed a allech chi roi rhywfaint o wybodaeth i ni am yr arian a'r adolygiad sy'n digwydd ynghylch eu gallu i allu cyflawni hynny'n effeithiol. Diolch yn fawr iawn.
Certainly, Jane. A very good question, as well. We did a baseline review with NRW that allowed them to give us unit costs for the very first time. And off the back of the unit costs, we've been able to work with them to build up what is possible with what level of funding across the piece. We've been able to help them prioritise what they should prioritise, given the funding envelope. We've just come through the worst budget round that I've ever experienced in the Welsh Government, so it's obviously in that context.
Yesterday, I had the privilege of being one of the invited speakers at the launch of NRW's new corporate plan. I don't say this lightly, Llywydd, because corporate plans are often a difficult read—something you approach with a heavy heart, late at night, that you have to get through—but it's genuinely an uplifting read. That and the new corporate plan for Bannau Brycheiniog, I hope, are the new standard for corporate plans. If Members haven't read it, it's genuinely worth reading. It is actually quite a page turner; I started with a heavy heart and found that I was actively enjoying reading it. And it's because they've done it completely differently; they've put their visions and their mission front and centre of it and then they've talked about nature and people thriving together all the way through, and they've related each one of their activities back to it in a way that I think has really put a bit of oomph and hope through the whole of the organisation, rather than the kind of embattled feel that they had before, and I really welcome that. I think that is as a result of an improved relationship with NRW, because of the joint working that we've done. NRW are wholly owned by the Welsh Government; we're not adversaries, they're our delivery arm. And I think the new relationship with them has really made a difference. So, on an ongoing basis, we will continue to review where they put their resource and how we can feed more resource in. My colleague Lesley Griffiths has just put more resource in for the agricultural pollution regulations monitoring, for example. And together, I think we can get our set of priorities calibrated in the right way.
Yn sicr, Jane. Cwestiwn da iawn hefyd. Fe wnaethom adolygiad sylfaenol gyda CNC a oedd yn caniatáu iddynt roi costau uned i ni am y tro cyntaf erioed. Ac yn sgil costau'r uned, rydym wedi gallu gweithio gyda nhw i adeiladu'r hyn sy'n bosibl gyda pha lefel o gyllid yn gyffredinol. Rydym wedi gallu eu helpu i flaenoriaethu'r hyn y dylent ei flaenoriaethu, o ystyried yr amlen ariannu. Rydym newydd ddod drwy'r rownd gyllidebol waethaf a brofais erioed yn Llywodraeth Cymru, felly mae'n amlwg yn digwydd yn y cyd-destun hwnnw.
Ddoe, cefais y fraint o fod yn un o'r siaradwyr gwadd yn lansiad cynllun corfforaethol newydd CNC. Nid wyf yn dweud hyn yn ysgafn, Lywydd, oherwydd mae cynlluniau corfforaethol yn aml yn anodd eu darllen—rhywbeth rydych chi'n ei wneud gyda chalon drom yn hwyr yn y nos, rhywbeth sy'n rhaid i chi fynd drwyddo—ond o ddifrif, mae'n galonogol iawn. Hynny a'r cynllun corfforaethol newydd ar gyfer Bannau Brycheiniog, gobeithio, yw'r safon newydd ar gyfer cynlluniau corfforaethol. Os nad yw'r Aelodau wedi ei ddarllen, mae'n werth ei ddarllen. Mewn gwirionedd, mae'n gyffrous iawn; dechreuais gyda chalon drom a chanfod fy mod yn mwynhau ei ddarllen. Ac mae hynny oherwydd eu bod wedi ei wneud yn hollol wahanol; maent wedi rhoi eu gweledigaeth a'u cenhadaeth yn y canol ac yna wedi siarad am natur a phobl yn ffynnu gyda'i gilydd yr holl ffordd drwodd, ac maent wedi cysylltu pob un o'u gweithgareddau yn ôl at hynny mewn ffordd sydd, yn fy marn i, wedi rhoi tipyn o hwb a gobaith i'r sefydliad cyfan, yn hytrach na'r math o deimlad rhwystredig a oedd i'w deimlo o'r blaen, ac rwy'n croesawu hynny'n fawr. Rwy'n credu bod hynny'n deillio o berthynas well gyda CNC, oherwydd y cydweithio a fu rhyngom. Mae CNC yn eiddo i Lywodraeth Cymru yn llwyr; nid ydym yn elynion, nhw yw ein braich sy'n cyflenwi. Ac rwy'n credu bod y berthynas newydd â nhw wedi gwneud gwahaniaeth go iawn. Felly, ar sail barhaus, byddwn yn parhau i adolygu lle maent yn rhoi eu hadnoddau a sut y gallwn fwydo mwy o adnoddau i mewn. Mae fy nghyd-Aelod Lesley Griffiths newydd roi mwy o adnoddau i mewn ar gyfer monitro'r rheoliadau llygredd amaethyddol, er enghraifft. A chyda'n gilydd, rwy'n credu y gallwn gael ein set o flaenoriaethau wedi'u graddnodi yn y ffordd iawn.
You've given us a weather forecast for the summer and a reading list for the summer now, Minister. [Laughter.]
Rydych chi wedi rhoi rhagolwg tywydd i ni ar gyfer yr haf a rhestr ddarllen ar gyfer yr haf nawr, Weinidog. [Chwerthin.]
Cwestiwn 4, Russell George.
Question 4, Russell George.
4. Pa asesiad y mae'r Gweinidog wedi'i wneud o fanteision amgylcheddol saethu anifeiliaid hela? OQ59591
4. What assessment has the Minister made of the environmental benefits of shooting game? OQ59591
Thank you, Russell. The Welsh Government does not support shooting of live animals or birds as a leisure activity. However, we absolutely understand that the control of certain species is sometimes necessary for wildlife management purposes such as to prevent serious damage to sensitive sites or species.
Diolch yn fawr, Russell. Nid yw Llywodraeth Cymru yn cefnogi saethu anifeiliaid neu adar byw fel gweithgaredd hamdden. Fodd bynnag, rydym yn deall yn iawn fod angen rheoli rhywogaethau penodol weithiau at ddibenion rheoli bywyd gwyllt, er enghraifft i atal niwed difrifol i safleoedd neu rywogaethau sensitif.
Thank you for your answer, Minister. A few weeks ago during my colleague James Evans's short debate on shooting and conservation, I intervened on you to ask you a straightforward question and you said to me that you would come to answer my question later in your contribution. You then went on not to answer my question and refused to take a second intervention. So, I hope that I can now ask you the same question again. So, yes, of course I'm aware of responses to my colleagues and others when you've outlined that you don't and the Welsh Government doesn't support activities linked with shooting. However, I know that there are a number of events that the Welsh Government does support. The Welsh Government supports a number of agricultural shows that are linked to the shooting of game, so the Welsh Government does financially support events that are connected to the shooting of game. So, can I ask for some clarification on what the Welsh Government's policy is on financially supporting events connected with the shooting of live game?
Diolch am eich ateb, Weinidog. Ychydig wythnosau yn ôl yn ystod dadl fer fy nghyd-Aelod James Evans ar saethu a chadwraeth, ymyrrais arnoch i ofyn cwestiwn syml i chi ac fe wnaethoch chi ddweud wrthyf y byddech yn ateb fy nghwestiwn yn ddiweddarach yn eich cyfraniad. Yna fe aethoch ymlaen i beidio ag ateb fy nghwestiwn a gwrthod cymryd ail ymyriad. Felly, rwy'n gobeithio nawr y gallaf ofyn yr un cwestiwn i chi eto. Felly, ydw, wrth gwrs, rwy'n ymwybodol o ymatebion i fy nghyd-Aelodau ac eraill pan ydych chi wedi amlinellu nad ydych chi ac nad yw Llywodraeth Cymru yn cefnogi gweithgareddau sy'n gysylltiedig â saethu. Fodd bynnag, gwn fod nifer o ddigwyddiadau y mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn eu cefnogi. Mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn cefnogi nifer o sioeau amaethyddol sy'n gysylltiedig â saethu anifeiliaid hela, felly mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn rhoi cefnogaeth ariannol i ddigwyddiadau sy'n gysylltiedig â saethu anifeiliaid hela. Felly, a gaf fi ofyn am rywfaint o eglurhad ar beth yw polisi Llywodraeth Cymru ar gefnogaeth ariannol i digwyddiadau sy'n gysylltiedig â saethu anifeiliaid hela?
We absolutely do provide support for the game meat industry, which is an important industry in Wales and the rural environment, and the Welsh Government has supported that for some years. I personally think, and I think quite a lot of people in Wales think, there's a big difference between having to kill something because you want to eat it or put it into the food chain and taking some pleasure or leisure activity part in that. I think there's quite a big dividing line between those two things, and that is the distinction I was drawing, Russell. So, I personally do not think that it is edifying to watch somebody actively enjoy killing something. If you have to kill it, for various reasons, then you should do so with a heavy heart, and that is the position that I currently maintain. That does not mean we do not support a game meat industry in Wales; of course we do. Of course, we support a large number of meat industries, which require the killing of animals in order to exist, but we think that those animals should be killed as swiftly and as humanely as possible, and not because you're enjoying yourself.
Rydym yn darparu cefnogaeth i'r diwydiant helgig, sy'n ddiwydiant pwysig yng Nghymru a'r amgylchedd gwledig, ac mae Llywodraeth Cymru wedi cefnogi hynny ers rhai blynyddoedd. Fy marn bersonol i, a barn cryn dipyn o bobl yng Nghymru rwy'n credu, yw bod gwahaniaeth mawr rhwng gorfod lladd rhywbeth am eich bod eisiau ei fwyta neu ei roi yn y gadwyn fwyd a chael rhyw bleser neu weithgaredd hamdden o wneud hynny. Rwy'n meddwl bod llinell eithaf clir rhwng y ddau beth, a dyna'r gwahaniaeth roeddwn i'n ei ddarlunio, Russell. Felly, yn bersonol, nid wyf yn credu bod gwylio rhywun yn mwynhau lladd rhywbeth yn fuddiol. Os oes raid i chi ei ladd, am wahanol resymau, dylech wneud hynny gyda chalon drom, a dyna yw fy safbwynt i ar hyn o bryd. Nid yw hynny'n golygu nad ydym yn cefnogi diwydiant helgig yng Nghymru; wrth gwrs ein bod. Wrth gwrs, rydym yn cefnogi nifer fawr o ddiwydiannau cig, sy'n galw am ladd anifeiliaid er mwyn bodoli, ond credwn y dylid lladd yr anifeiliaid hynny mor gyflym ac mor drugarog â phosibl, ac nid oherwydd eich bod yn mwynhau eich hun.
Mae cwestiwn 5 [OQ59618] wedi'i dynnu'n ôl. Cwestiwn 6, Tom Giffard.
Question 5 [OQ59618] has been withdrawn. Question 6, Tom Giffard.
6. Pa ffactorau y mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn eu hystyried wrth gyfrifo targedau adeiladu tai? OQ59606
6. What factors does the Welsh Government consider when calculating house building targets? OQ59606
Thank you, Tom. It's the responsibility of each local planning authority to assess the need for housing in their area and, based on this evidence, to establish a housing requirement within their local development plan.
Diolch yn fawr, Tom. Cyfrifoldeb pob awdurdod cynllunio lleol yw asesu'r angen am dai yn eu hardal. ac yn seiliedig ar y dystiolaeth hon, sefydlu gofyniad tai o fewn eu cynllun datblygu lleol.
Thank you, Minister, for your answer, and you'll know, I'm sure, the Welsh Government estimated between 6,200 and 8,300 additional dwellings will need to be built annually just to meet current housing demand. But with significant historic lack of supply in the market, it does raise the question of whether that target is ambitious enough in the first place. Even so, some councils are still consistently even failing to hit these house building targets. For instance, Bridgend County Borough Council promised in their LDP to build 505 homes per year, but, since the publication of that LDP, they've failed to hit that target once, and, last year, only managed half of it. And we know the consequences of that inaction, Minister: a lack of supply in the market drives up the cost of new homes for people, particularly younger people, who desperately need them, who want to start their lives and get on the housing ladder. But, to me, it doesn't seem to be that there are many consequences for councils from the Welsh Government for those councils that don't meet those LDP obligations that they've set out in the first place, so what action have you taken against councils who consistently fail to meet those LDP targets, where they're unwilling or unable to do that, and what consideration have you given to encouraging councils, if they get to the end of an LDP process and they've not met the target they've set out, to force them to put even more houses into their next LDP? Thank you.
Diolch am eich ateb, Weinidog, ac fe fyddwch yn gwybod, rwy'n siŵr, y bydd angen adeiladu rhwng 6,200 ac 8,300 o anheddau ychwanegol bob blwyddyn i ateb y galw presennol am dai. Ond gyda phrinder cyflenwad sylweddol yn y farchnad yn hanesyddol, mae'n codi'r cwestiwn a yw'r targed hwnnw'n ddigon uchelgeisiol yn y lle cyntaf. Er hynny, mae rhai cynghorau'n dal i fethu cyrraedd y targedau adeiladu tai hyn yn gyson. Er enghraifft, addawodd Cyngor Bwrdeistref Sirol Pen-y-bont ar Ogwr yn eu CDLl y byddent yn adeiladu 505 o gartrefi y flwyddyn, ond ers cyhoeddi'r CDLl hwnnw, maent wedi methu cyrraedd y targed un waith, a'r llynedd, dim ond eu hanner y llwyddwyd i'w hadeiladu. Ac rydym yn gwybod beth yw canlyniadau diffyg gweithredu o'r fath, Weinidog: mae prinder cyflenwad yn y farchnad yn cynyddu cost cartrefi newydd i bobl, yn enwedig pobl iau, sydd eu hangen yn fawr, pobl iau sydd am ddechrau eu bywydau a chael troed ar yr ysgol dai. Ond i mi, nid yw'n ymddangos bod Llywodraeth Cymru yn creu llawer o ganlyniadau i gynghorau nad ydynt yn bodloni'r rhwymedigaethau CDLl a nodwyd ganddynt yn y lle cyntaf, felly pa gamau a gymerwyd gennych yn erbyn cynghorau sy'n methu cyrraedd y targedau CDLl hynny'n gyson, lle maent yn anfodlon neu'n methu gwneud hynny, a pha ystyriaeth a roddwyd gennych i annog cynghorau, os ydynt yn cyrraedd diwedd y broses CDLl a'u bod heb gyrraedd y targed a nodwyd ganddynt, er mwyn eu gorfodi i roi hyd yn oed mwy o dai yn eu CDLl nesaf? Diolch.
Thank you, Tom. That's quite a complicated set of interventions that we undertake. The LDP estimate for housing is, of course, for all housing, combined-use housing. So, we then divide it into what we fund—so, the houses we fund are houses for social rent and some affordable and mixed-use housing—and houses that are brought forward by the private sector, some of which also, of course, become social or affordable housing.
We did an exercise with every local authority in Wales over the last couple of years—it might have been three; I don't quite remember, but over the last few years—where we went through the allocated housing land in each LDP and asked why it wasn't possible to bring it forward, because in some LDPs there had been land allocated that hadn't been brought forward for very many years, and it became obvious that this was land that was never going to be suitable for housing. In places where we found that the land was suitable for housing but had barriers—so, it had contaminated land, or it had specific access problems and so on—we put two grant-funded schemes in place: so, the stalled sites funding and the—I can't remember the other one—contaminated land one—it's not called that, but that's what it's for—basically to de-risk some of the land to be able to bring it forward.
But we've also been working—. Because of the phosphates issue in Wales, we have a large number of planning applications stuck behind the phosphates issue. We've been working with the house builders in Wales, and with local authorities affected—I don't think Bridgend is one of those, but, anyway, quite a few authorities in Wales are—to work out how we can bring those sites forward with specific solutions to those kinds of issues on those sites. And then we ask the local authorities to revisit their LDPs and redo their local housing assessment allocation if we think it's not working in the way that it ought to. So, there are a number of different interventions that we undertake to assist the local authority to make sure that it does have the right allocations in its land in a sustainable way and that enable us to bring it forward.
And then the last thing is that we've been working with central Government for pretty much the whole of this Senedd's life trying to bring forward a vacant land tax. That's proved far more problematic than we'd hoped, because what we hoped was to be able to make sure that people didn't land bank, and so that allocated sites for LDPs actually were actively being progressed, rather than land banked against increased prices.
Diolch yn fawr, Tom. Rydym yn cyflawni set eithaf cymhleth o ymyriadau. Mae amcangyfrif y CDLl ar gyfer tai ar gyfer pob math o dŷ, wrth gwrs, tai defnydd cyfunol. Felly, rydym yn ei rannu yn ôl yr hyn rydym yn ei ariannu—felly, tai ar gyfer rhent cymdeithasol a rhai tai fforddiadwy a defnydd cymysg yw'r tai rydym yn eu hariannu—a thai sy'n cael eu cyflwyno gan y sector preifat, gyda rhai o'r rheini hefyd, wrth gwrs, yn dod yn dai cymdeithasol neu dai fforddiadwy.
Fe gynhaliwyd ymarfer gyda phob awdurdod lleol yng Nghymru dros y ddwy flynedd ddiwethaf—neu dair efallai; nid wyf yn cofio'n iawn, ond dros y blynyddoedd diwethaf—lle'r aethom drwy'r tir a ddyrannwyd ar gyfer tai ym mhob CDLl a gofyn pam nad oedd yn bosibl ei ddwyn ymlaen, oherwydd mewn rhai CDLlau roedd tir wedi'i ddyrannu nad oedd wedi cael ei ddwyn ymlaen ers blynyddoedd lawer, a daeth yn amlwg mai tir oedd hwn nad oedd byth yn mynd i fod yn addas ar gyfer tai. Mewn mannau lle gwelsom fod y tir yn addas ar gyfer tai ond bod rhwystrau'n bodoli—felly, fod tir yn halogedig, neu fod yna broblemau mynediad penodol ac ati—rhoesom ddau gynllun grant ar waith: felly, y cyllid safleoedd segur a'r—ni allaf gofio'r llall—yr un tir halogedig—nid yw'n cael ei alw'n hynny, ond dyna beth yw ei bwrpas—yn y bôn i ddadrisgio rhywfaint o'r tir er mwyn gallu ei ddwyn ymlaen.
Ond rydym hefyd wedi bod yn gweithio—. Oherwydd y broblem ffosffadau yng Nghymru, mae gennym nifer fawr o geisiadau cynllunio yn methu symud ymlaen oherwydd y broblem ffosffadau. Rydym wedi bod yn gweithio gyda'r adeiladwyr tai yng Nghymru, a chydag awdurdodau lleol sydd wedi'u heffeithio—nid wyf yn credu bod Pen-y-bont ar Ogwr yn un o'r rheini, ond beth bynnag, cryn dipyn o awdurdodau yng Nghymru—i ddarganfod sut y gallwn ddwyn y safleoedd hynny ymlaen gydag atebion penodol i'r mathau hynny o broblemau ar y safleoedd hynny. Ac yna rydym yn gofyn i'r awdurdodau lleol ailedrych ar eu CDLlau ac ail-wneud eu dyraniad asesiad tai lleol os credwn nad yw'n gweithio yn y ffordd y dylai. Felly, rydym yn cyflawni nifer o ymyriadau gwahanol i gynorthwyo'r awdurdod lleol i sicrhau bod ganddo'r dyraniadau cywir yn ei dir mewn ffordd sy'n gynaliadwy ac sy'n ein galluogi i ddwyn y rhain ymlaen.
Wedyn, y peth olaf yw ein bod wedi bod yn gweithio gyda'r Llywodraeth ganolog dros gyfnod y Senedd hon i geisio cyflwyno treth ar dir gwag. Mae hynny wedi profi'n llawer mwy problemus nag y gobeithiem, oherwydd roeddem wedi gobeithio gallu sicrhau nad oedd pobl yn bancio tir, ac fel bod safleoedd a ddyrannwyd ar gyfer CDLlau yn mynd rhagddynt mewn gwirionedd, yn hytrach na bod tir yn cael ei fancio yn erbyn prisiau uwch.
7. Pa gynnydd y mae Llywodraeth Cymru wedi'i wneud o ran gwella diogelwch ar y ffyrdd yng ngogledd Sir Ddinbych? OQ59602
7. What progress has the Welsh Government made on improving road safety in north Denbighshire? OQ59602
Thank you. As the Member knows, Denbighshire council as the highway authority is responsible for road safety in their county. Since 2019, we have provided them with over £1 million of road safety funding. This year, their funding will include over £197,000 to implement the new default 20 mph speed limit—the biggest road safety initiative in a generation.
Diolch. Fel y gŵyr yr Aelod, mae Cyngor Sir Ddinbych, fel yr awdurdod priffyrdd, yn gyfrifol am ddiogelwch ar y ffyrdd yn eu sir. Ers 2019, rydym wedi darparu dros £1 filiwn o gyllid diogelwch ffyrdd iddynt. Eleni, bydd eu cyllid yn cynnwys dros £197,000 i weithredu'r terfyn cyflymder 20 mya diofyn newydd—y cynllun diogelwch ffyrdd mwyaf mewn cenhedlaeth.
Thank you very much for your response, Deputy Minister, this afternoon. The reason I ask this question is because I want to raise the issue of the B5119, and if you’re thinking, ‘Well, what’s the B5119?’, it’s known locally as the dizzy bends, and it’s a narrow road that links Rhyl and Prestatyn. The area has seen significant housing development over the last 25, 30 years, but the road itself hasn’t been developed since the days of horse and cart, unfortunately. So, as a result of the development, obviously as a consequence of that, we’ve seen the increase of traffic using the B5119. I know, as a Welsh Government, you’ve committed to banning road building under the roads review, but I just want to distinguish the difference between road building and road safety, and what negotiations you could possibly have with Denbighshire County Council to make widening the road and road safety improvements a possibility for the B5119, as over the last few years, we’ve seen an increase in near misses and a fatality that unfortunately happened last year. So, on behalf of my constituents, can I ask you what possibilities we can look at in terms of improving that road safety for the dizzy bends, as we call it locally?
Diolch yn fawr iawn am eich ymateb y prynhawn yma, Ddirprwy Weinidog. Y rheswm rwy'n gofyn y cwestiwn yw oherwydd fy mod eisiau codi mater y B5119, ac os ydych chi'n meddwl, 'Wel, beth yw'r B5119?', caiff ei hadnabod yn lleol fel y 'dizzy bends', a ffordd gul yw hi sy'n cysylltu'r Rhyl a Phrestatyn. Mae'r ardal wedi gweld cryn dipyn o ddatblygiadau tai dros y 25, 30 mlynedd diwethaf, ond nid yw'r ffordd ei hun wedi'i datblygu ers dyddiau ceffyl a chert, yn anffodus. Felly, o ganlyniad i'r datblygiad, yn amlwg o ganlyniad i hynny, rydym wedi gweld cynnydd yn y traffig sy'n defnyddio'r B5119. Fel Llywodraeth Cymru, gwn eich bod wedi ymrwymo i wahardd adeiladu ffyrdd o dan yr adolygiad ffyrdd, ond rwyf am wahaniaethu rhwng adeiladu ffyrdd a diogelwch ffyrdd, a pha drafodaethau y gallech eu cael gyda Chyngor Sir Ddinbych i wneud gwelliannau diogelwch a lledu'r ffordd yn bosibl ar gyfer y B5119, gan ein bod, dros y blynyddoedd diwethaf, wedi gweld cynnydd yn nifer y digwyddiadau a ddaeth yn agos at fod yn ddamweiniau difrifol, a marwolaeth a ddigwyddodd y llynedd, yn anffodus. Felly, ar ran fy etholwyr, a gaf fi ofyn i chi ynglŷn â'r posibilrwydd o edrych ar wella diogelwch ffordd y 'dizzy bends', fel rydym yn ei galw'n lleol?
Thank you very much for the question. Every time I hear the Conservative benches misrepresenting our policy I get a case of the dizzy bends. Just to be explicit, for the fifteenth time, we are not banning road building. We are building new roads now, we will continue to build new roads, we've agreed with Gwynedd Council to build a new road in Llanbedr. So, I appreciate it's a nice little issue for them to put on social media, but it is completely untrue. The Member doesn't even blush when he trots out this misrepresentation time and time again. It's not true. Just to be very clear, okay? We're not banning new roads. So I hope that that is now understood by all.
We are applying a new roads policy based on the independent roads review, and in cases of road safety, it says that we need to go through a process, and one of the first things we should be doing, before looking to infrastructure changes like widening roads, he says, or increasing the speed of roads, we should be looking to cut the speed of roads as a first step to make roads safer and to reduce the likelihood of cars crashing.
Now, I believe this is a road that is the responsibility of the local authority, and he needs to address the road safety concerns with them, and they're able to apply to us in the normal way, within our new roads policy framework, which does not include banning new roads.
Diolch yn fawr iawn am y cwestiwn. Bob tro y clywaf feinciau'r Ceidwadwyr yn camddisgrifio ein polisi, rwy'n cael pwl o bendro hefyd. I fod yn glir, am y pymthegfed tro, nid ydym yn gwahardd adeiladu ffyrdd. Rydym yn adeiladu ffyrdd newydd nawr, byddwn yn parhau i adeiladu ffyrdd newydd, rydym wedi cytuno â Chyngor Gwynedd i adeiladu ffordd newydd yn Llanbedr. Felly, rwy'n sylweddoli ei fod yn fater bach braf iddynt ei roi ar gyfryngau cymdeithasol, ond mae'n hollol anghywir. Nid oes gan yr Aelod unrhyw gywilydd ei fod yn stribedu'r camargraffiadau hyn dro ar ôl tro. Nid yw'n wir. I fod yn glir iawn, o'r gorau? Nid ydym yn gwahardd ffyrdd newydd. Felly, rwy'n gobeithio bod pawb yn deall hynny nawr.
Rydym yn cymhwyso polisi ffyrdd newydd yn seiliedig ar yr adolygiad ffyrdd annibynnol, ac mewn achosion o ddiogelwch ar y ffyrdd, mae'n dweud bod angen inni fynd trwy broses, ac un o'r pethau cyntaf y dylem ei wneud, cyn edrych ar newidiadau seilwaith fel lledu ffyrdd, mae'n dweud, neu gynyddu cyflymder ar ffyrdd, yw y dylem edrych ar dorri cyflymder ffyrdd fel cam cyntaf i wneud ffyrdd yn fwy diogel ac i leihau'r tebygolrwydd o ddamweiniau.
Nawr, rwy'n credu mai cyfrifoldeb yr awdurdod lleol yw'r ffordd hon, ac mae angen iddo drafod pryderon ynghylch diogelwch gyda nhw, ac fe allant hwy wneud cais i ni yn y ffordd arferol, o fewn ein fframwaith polisi ffyrdd newydd, nad yw'n cynnwys gwahardd ffyrdd newydd.
8. A wnaiff y Gweinidog ddatganiad am sut fydd cynlluniau datblygu strategol y dyfodol yn effeithio ar broses cynlluniau datblygu lleol yng Ngogledd Cymru? OQ59612
8. Will the Minister make a statement on how future strategic development plans will affect the local development plan process in North Wales? OQ59612
Diolch am y cwestiwn, Llyr.
Thank you for the question, Llyr.
Local planning authorities have a duty to prepare a local development plan, as set out in the Planning and Compulsory Purchase Act 2004. Following adoption of a strategic development plan by a corporate joint committee, local planning authorities within that region will be required to prepare a lighter touch LDP.
Mae dyletswydd ar awdurdodau cynllunio lleol i baratoi cynllun datblygu lleol, fel y nodir yn Neddf Cynllunio a Phrynu Gorfodol 2004. Ar ôl mabwysiadu cynllun datblygu strategol gan gyd-bwyllgor corfforedig, bydd gofyn i awdurdodau cynllunio lleol yn yr ardal honno baratoi CDLl llai manwl.
Yes, thank you for that, because a lot of people are asking how things might be different in a future scenario. Because you will know about the current impasse in Wrexham, where Wrexham council now finds itself in a position where a consortium of developers, actually, have issued a legal challenge against the council for voting not to adopt its LDP. Now, the council will be voting again next week on whether to reverse that earlier decision because, now, of the threat that a judge could force the LDP on them against the wishes of democratically elected representatives, and what that says about the concept of local democracy, I’m not sure. Will you accept that this mess has been a long time in the making? I’ve raised it—I raised it back in 2012, of course, when the Welsh Government and the planning inspectorate first refused, or insisted that the council submit a second LDP. I’m coming back again to a point that was touched upon earlier in relation to numbers of houses; they were forced to inflate the numbers of housing in the LDP. Now, those have turned out to be totally at odds with reality. Wrexham’s population is decreasing, not increasing, and to many local people, in the current circumstances, they feel that the Welsh Government, the planning inspectorate, are working hand in glove with large property developers to force this housing on a community that clearly doesn't want it. So, will you accept some responsibility for this mess? And, more importantly, in light of what's coming down the line with a lighter touch LDP, et cetera, will you work with the council to try and resolve this situation, rather than what feels like just allowing developers to have their way?
Ie, diolch am hynny, oherwydd mae llawer o bobl yn gofyn sut y gallai pethau fod yn wahanol mewn senario yn y dyfodol. Oherwydd fe fyddwch yn gwybod am y cyfyngder presennol yn Wrecsam, lle mae cyngor Wrecsam bellach mewn sefyllfa lle mae consortiwm o ddatblygwyr wedi cyhoeddi her gyfreithiol yn erbyn y cyngor am bleidleisio i beidio â mabwysiadu ei CDLl. Nawr, bydd y cyngor yn pleidleisio eto yr wythnos nesaf i weld a ddylid gwrthdroi'r penderfyniad cynharach hwnnw oherwydd y bygythiad nawr y gallai barnwr orfodi'r CDLl arnynt yn erbyn dymuniadau cynrychiolwyr a etholwyd yn ddemocrataidd, a beth mae hynny'n ei ddweud am y cysyniad o ddemocratiaeth leol, nid wyf yn siŵr. A wnewch chi dderbyn bod y llanast hwn wedi bod yn cyniwair ers amser hir? Rwyf wedi ei godi—fe wneuthum ei godi nôl yn 2012 pan wrthododd Llywodraeth Cymru a'r arolygiaeth gynllunio am y tro cyntaf, neu pan wnaethant fynnu bod y cyngor yn cyflwyno ail CDLl. Rwy'n dod yn ôl eto at bwynt a grybwyllwyd yn gynharach mewn perthynas â niferoedd tai; fe'u gorfodwyd i chwyddo nifer y tai yn y CDLl. Nawr, mae'r rheini'n hollol groes i realiti. Mae poblogaeth Wrecsam yn gostwng, nid yn cynyddu, ac i lawer o bobl leol, yn yr amgylchiadau presennol, maent yn teimlo bod Llywodraeth Cymru, yr arolygiaeth gynllunio, yn gweithio law yn llaw â datblygwyr eiddo mawr i orfodi'r tai hyn ar gymuned nad yw'n dymuno eu cael. Felly, a wnewch chi dderbyn rhywfaint o gyfrifoldeb am y llanast hwn? Ac yn bwysicach fyth, yng ngoleuni'r hyn sy'n dod gyda CDLl llai manwl ac ati, a wnewch chi weithio gyda'r cyngor i geisio datrys y sefyllfa hon, yn hytrach na'r hyn sy'n teimlo fel caniatáu i ddatblygwyr gael eu ffordd?
So, Llyr, I would very much like to have a discussion with you about where we are on the Wrexham LDP, but I fear, Llywydd, that we are right in the middle of a series of judicial review processes, which the Welsh Government is a party to. Therefore, I fear that I cannot discuss it on the floor of the Senedd. But, if the Member wants to request a private conversation with me, I am more than happy to do that. I will say this, though, Llyr: I don't think that your characterisation of what's happened in Wrexham is entirely fair, and I would very much like the opportunity to have a proper discussion with you about it.
Llyr, hoffwn yn fawr iawn gael trafodaeth gyda chi ynglŷn â ble rydym arni gyda CDLl Wrecsam, ond rwy'n ofni, Lywydd, ein bod yng nghanol cyfres o brosesau adolygiadau barnwrol y mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn barti iddynt. Felly, rwy'n ofni na allaf ei drafod ar lawr y Senedd. Ond os yw'r Aelod am ofyn am sgwrs breifat gyda mi, rwy'n fwy na pharod i wneud hynny. Er hynny, rwy'n dweud hyn, Llyr: nid wyf yn credu bod eich disgrifiad o'r hyn sydd wedi digwydd yn Wrecsam yn gwbl deg, a hoffwn yn fawr iawn gael cyfle i gael trafodaeth iawn gyda chi yn ei gylch.
Ac yn olaf cwestiwn 9. Cefin Campbell.
And finally question 9. Cefin Campbell.
9. A wnaiff y Gweinidog ddatganiad am ddatblygu gwasanaethau rheilffyrdd yng Nghanolbarth a Gorllewin Cymru? OQ59604
9. Will the Minister make a statement on the development of rail services in Mid and West Wales? OQ59604
Diolch. Transport for Wales is taking forward work under the co-operation agreement between the Welsh Government and Plaid Cymru on transport links between north and south Wales, including travel corridors on the west coast of Wales, on an integrated transport system for north-west Wales, and on our metro developments.
Diolch. Mae Trafnidiaeth Cymru yn bwrw ymlaen â gwaith o dan y cytundeb cydweithio rhwng Llywodraeth Cymru a Phlaid Cymru ar gysylltiadau trafnidiaeth rhwng gogledd a de Cymru, gan gynnwys coridorau teithio ar arfordir gorllewin Cymru, ar system drafnidiaeth integredig ar gyfer gogledd-orllewin Cymru, ac ar ein datblygiadau metro.
Diolch yn fawr iawn. Rydw i am ganolbwyntio’n benodol ar station Sanclêr yn sir Gaerfyrddin, ond mi ddof i yn ôl at hynny mewn eiliad. Mi fyddwn ni i gyd yn y Siambr yma yn deall, wrth gwrs, bwysigrwydd datblygu rheilffyrdd yng nghanolbarth a gorllewin Cymru, er mwyn cysylltu pobl â’r ardaloedd gwledig yma. Mae’n bwysig am nifer o resymau, wrth gwrs, ac rydyn ni wedi eich clywed chi’n sôn am hynny sawl gwaith.
Mae’n mynd i annog pobl i ddefnyddio llai o geir os gallwn ni uwchraddio ein gorsafoedd ni yn yr ardaloedd yma a datblygu mwy o reilffyrdd. Mae hefyd yn ymateb i’r agenda argyfwng newid hinsawdd. Hefyd, mae’n mynd i fod yn hwb i’r economi leol, gan gynnwys twristiaeth, wrth gwrs, ac yn annog mwy o deithio llesol. Felly, o safbwynt gorsaf Sanclêr yn benodol, dwi’n deall bod yna amcangyfrif o’r costau wedi digwydd, a bod tua hanner y costau hynny wedi cael eu cyfrannu yn barod gan adran drafnidiaeth San Steffan. Felly, mae yna fwlch ar ôl, o ryw £6 miliwn, yn ôl beth rydw i’n ei ddeall. Felly, beth yw’r diweddaraf—os gallwch chi rannu hynny gyda ni—o ran cyfraniad Llywodraeth Cymru i gwrdd â’r costau yma, er mwyn sicrhau bod gorsaf ffit i bwrpas gyda ni yn Sanclêr?
Thank you very much. I want to focus specifically on the St Clears station in Carmarthenshire, but I will return to that in just a second. Everyone in this Chamber will understand, of course, the importance of developing the railway in mid and west Wales in order to connect people in these rural areas. It's important for many reasons, of course, and we've heard you talk about that on a number of occasions.
It will encourage people to make less use of private vehicles if we can upgrade our stations in these areas and develop the railway. It will also respond to the climate emergency agenda. It will also boost the economy, including tourism, of course, and will encourage more active travel. So, in terms of St Clears station specifically, I know that an estimate of costs has been made, and around half of the costs have already been contributed by the Westminster department for transport. But there is a gap of some £6 million, as I understand it. So, what's the latest news—if you could share that with us—in terms of the Welsh Government's contribution to meet these costs in order to ensure that there is a fit-for-purpose station in St Clears?
Thank you. Well, as the Member has said, the Welsh Government want to see a station in St Clears as part of an upgrade of our overall public transport system, for the reasons that he very articulately set out. He's also right that the costs of the St Clears proposal have increased significantly, as indeed have all infrastructure projects, and our capital budget has simultaneously been cut by 8 per cent in real terms by the Conservative Government as part of their chosen austerity drive. So, there is a gap, as you said.
We are in discussions with Hywel Dda health board, as part of their planning for a new west Wales hospital. A station in St Clears could be an important part of that, and how we look to include that within the planning and the budgeting of that hospital—. But in the short term, we do have a financial gap without a very clear way of addressing it. These are conversations that are ongoing with Network Rail and the UK Government.
Diolch. Wel, fel y dywedodd yr Aelod, mae Llywodraeth Cymru eisiau gweld gorsaf yn Sanclêr fel rhan o'r broses o uwchraddio ein system drafnidiaeth gyhoeddus gyffredinol, am y rhesymau a nododd yn glir iawn. Mae hefyd yn iawn fod costau cynnig Sanclêr wedi cynyddu'n sylweddol, fel pob prosiect seilwaith yn wir, ac mae ein cyllideb gyfalaf ar yr un pryd wedi'i thorri 8 y cant mewn termau real gan y Llywodraeth Geidwadol fel rhan o'r cyni ariannol y maent yn dewis mynd ar ei drywydd. Felly, mae yna fwlch, fel y dywedoch chi.
Rydym mewn trafodaethau gyda bwrdd iechyd Hywel Dda, yn rhan o'u cynlluniau ar gyfer ysbyty newydd yng ngorllewin Cymru. Gallai gorsaf yn Sanclêr fod yn rhan bwysig o hynny, a sut y ceisiwn gynnwys hynny yng nghynlluniau a chyllideb yr ysbyty hwnnw—. Ond yn y tymor byr, mae gennym fwlch ariannol heb ffordd glir iawn o fynd i'r afael ag ef. Mae'r rhain yn sgyrsiau sydd ar y gweill gyda Network Rail a Llywodraeth y DU .
Diolch i'r Dirprwy Weinidog a'r Gweinidog.
I thank the Deputy Minister and the Minister.
Yr eitem nesaf, felly, fydd y cwestiynau i Weinidog y Gymraeg ac Addysg, ac mae'r cwestiwn cyntaf gan Peredur Owen Griffiths.
The next item, therefore is questions to the Minister for Education and the Welsh Language, and the first question is from Peredur Owen Griffiths.
1. Pa gynlluniau sydd gan y Llywodraeth ar waith i hybu addysg cyfrwng Cymraeg? OQ59616
1. What plans does the Government have in place to promote Welsh-medium education? OQ59616
Mae hybu addysg cyfrwng Cymraeg yn greiddiol i’n strategaeth 'Cymraeg 2050'. Rwyf wedi cytuno cynlluniau strategol Cymraeg mewn addysg yr holl awdurdodau lleol i gefnogi’r gwaith hwn. Rŷn ni’n gweithredu cynllun gweithlu Cymraeg uchelgeisiol ac yn ariannu gwaith partneriaid a phrosiectau amrywiol i gefnogi gweithgarwch hybu ledled y wlad.
The promotion of Welsh-medium education underpins our 'Cymraeg 2050' strategy. I have agreed local authority Welsh in education strategic plans to support this work. We are implementing an ambitious Welsh workforce plan and funding organisations and various projects to support promotion activity across the country.
Diolch yn fawr am yr ateb yna. Rydw i’n gobeithio bod data cyfrifiad 2021, yn ogystal â’r rhybuddion a roddwyd yn y pwyllgor diwylliant a’r Gymraeg yn ddiweddar, yn symbyliad i weithredu o ran addysg drwy gyfrwng y Gymraeg a dysgu’r iaith Gymraeg. Does dim digon o athrawon cyfrwng Cymraeg ac athrawon i ddysgu’r Gymraeg yn dod i mewn i weithio yn ein hysgolion a’n colegau. Ar ben hynny, mae nifer y siaradwyr Cymraeg yn dirywio, yn ôl ffigurau’r cyfrifiad. Yn anffodus, mae’r duedd ar i lawr yn arbennig o amlwg ymhlith pobl ifanc yn fy rhanbarth i, yn enwedig ym Mlaenau Gwent. Heb os, bydd y targed o gyrraedd miliwn o siaradwyr Cymraeg erbyn 2050 yn anoddach i'w gyrraedd neu yn cael ei fethu heb gamau radical a mwy uchelgeisiol. Weinidog, ydych chi'n cydnabod bod y sefyllfa yn bryderus fel ag y mae ar hyn o bryd ac ydych chi'n hyderus y gellir troi cornel i weld pethau yn gwella? Hefyd, sut ydych chi'n bwriadu mynd i'r afael, yn benodol yn ne-ddwyrain Cymru, â'r prinder difrifol o athrawon cyfrwng Cymraeg a'r athrawon sy'n dysgu Cymraeg sy'n bodoli mewn addysg gynradd ac uwchradd? Diolch.
Thank you very much for that response. I hope that the census data of 2021, as well as the warnings set out in the culture and Welsh language committee, will be an incentive to take action with regard to Welsh-medium education and the learning of the Welsh language. There aren't enough teachers to teach the Welsh language and Welsh-medium teachers to teach in our schools and colleges. On top of that, the number of Welsh speakers is declining, according to the census figures. Unfortunately, the downward trend is particularly prominent amongst young people in my region, particularly in Blaenau Gwent. Without a doubt, the target of reaching a million Welsh speakers by 2050 will be harder to meet or will be missed entirely without radical steps being taken and more ambitious steps being taken. Minister, do you acknowledge that the situation is concerning as it currently stands, and are you confident that we can turn a corner to see the situation improving? Also, how do you intend to tackle, particularly in south-east Wales, the shortage of Welsh-medium teachers and teachers able to teach through the medium of Welsh that exists in primary and second education? Thank you.
Diolch i'r Aelod am y cwestiwn. Mae'r ffigurau yn y cyfrifiad, wrth gwrs, yn dangos gostyngiad mewn rhai grwpiau oedran, ond fel mae'r Aelod yn gwybod, rŷn ni hefyd wedi bod yn edrych ar ddata trwy'r arolwg cenedlaethol sydd yn dangos, am y tro cyntaf erioed, yn yr un cyfnod gynnydd yn y rhifau. Felly, mae'n rhaid mynd i waith i edrych ar beth mae'r data o'r ddwy ffynhonnell yn ei ddweud wrthyn ni. Rŷn ni wedi cytuno gyda'r ystadegydd cenedlaethol swyddogol fod cynllun gwaith yn mynd i'r afael â hynny. Mae'n bwysig iawn bod gennym ni ddata dibynadwy fel Llywodraeth, ac sydd yn deall y cyd-destun. Felly, mae'r gwaith yna'n waith pwysig iawn.
Ond roeddwn i'n siomedig, wrth gwrs, yng nghanlyniadau'r cyfrifiad, er efallai fod esboniad ehangach iddyn nhw. Rwyf i yn ffyddiog bod gennym ni gynllun da er mwyn cyrraedd y nod, sydd yn nod heriol, fel mae'r Aelod yn cydnabod, yn nod uchelgeisiol yn sicr. Mae rhifau athrawon, wrth gwrs, yn gwbl greiddiol i lwyddiant strategaeth addysg Gymraeg. Mae cynyddu nifer yr athrawon cyfrwng Cymraeg yn hanfodol os ŷn ni eisiau gweld mwy o ddysgwyr mewn addysg cyfrwng Cymraeg. Mae gennym ni gynllun 10 mlynedd, a diolch i'r holl bartneriaid a rhanddeiliaid sydd wedi cydweithio gyda ni ar hynny, gyda llawer o gamau creadigol yn hynny.
Mae'r Aelod yn iawn i ddweud bod ardaloedd o fewn ei rhanbarth ef yn ardaloedd lle mae'r gostyngiad yn ymddangos, o leiaf, fel ei fod e ar ei waethaf, felly mae gwaith penodol i'w wneud yn hynny o beth. Rŷn ni'n falch fy mod i wedi gallu cymeradwyo cyllid ar gyfer pencampwr hyrwyddo addysg cyfrwng Cymraeg rhanbarthol newydd i weithio yn benodol yn ne-ddwyrain Cymru. Mae hwn yn gydweithrediad rhwng yr awdurdodau lleol a'r mentrau iaith, ac os bydd hynny'n llwyddiannus, byddwn ni'n edrych i ehangu hynny yn genedlaethol.
I thank the Member for the question. The census figures, of course, do demonstrate a decline in some age groups, but as the Member will know, we've also been looking at the national survey data, which shows, for the first time, in the same period, an increase in numbers. So, we need to do some work to look at what the data from both sources tell us. We've agreed with the official national statistician that there will be a work programme undertaken to tackle that. It's very important that we have reliable data as a Government, so that we can understand the context. So, that work is very important indeed.
I was, of course, disappointed with the census results, although there might be broader reasons for them. I am confident that we have a good plan in place to reach that challenging target, as the Member recognises, it is very ambitious. Teacher numbers, of course, are at the heart of the success of the Welsh-medium education strategy. Increasing the number of Welsh-medium teachers is crucial if we want to see more learners in Welsh-medium education. We have a 10-year plan, and thanks to all the partners and stakeholders who've worked with us on that, a number of creative steps have been taken.
The Member is right in saying that there are areas within his region where that decline appears to be at its worst, so there's specific work to be done in that regard. We're pleased to have been able to approve funding for a Welsh-medium education promotion champion to work regionally, focused specifically on the south-east of Wales. This is in collaboration between the mentrau iaith and the local authorities, and if that is successful, we will look to expand that at a national level.
Weinidog, weithiau mae yn teimlo fel ein bod ni'n syrthio i'r fagl o feddwl bod y Gymraeg ar fin marw pan, mewn gwirionedd, fo'r ffigurau a gyhoeddwyd gan bapur newydd The Scotsman yn dangos bod dros 15 gwaith yn fwy o siaradwyr Cymraeg nag sydd o siaradwyr Gaeleg yr Alban, ac mae gan Gymru tua hanner poblogaeth yr Alban. Felly, mae gwir angen i ni fod yn fwy optimistaidd am yr iaith a'i dyfodol, yn enwedig wrth i ni symud tuag at Cymraeg 2050. Gyda hyn mewn golwg, sut mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn edrych i fod yn fwy cadarnhaol ac optimistaidd yn ei hiaith ei hun wrth iddi geisio annog mwy o athrawon i ymuno â'r gweithlu ac addysgu drwy gyfrwng y Gymraeg? Diolch.
Minister, sometimes it does feel that we're falling into the trap of thinking that Welsh is about to die out, when, truth be told, figures published by The Scotsman newspaper demonstrate that there are over 15 times more Welsh speakers than there are of Scottish Gaelic, and Wales has almost half the population of Scotland. So, we do need to be more optimistic about the language and its future, particularly as we move towards Cymraeg 2050. With this in mind, how is the Welsh Government looking to be more positive and optimistic in its own wording when it tries to encourage more teachers to join the workforce and teach through the medium of Welsh? Thank you.
Rwy'n optimist wrth reddf, felly'n cytuno â beth mae'r Aelod newydd ei ddweud. Mae'n bwysig, rwyf i'n credu, er ein bod ni'n trafod yn aml yr heriau sy'n wynebu recriwtio, er enghraifft, ein bod ni hefyd yn dathlu'r cyfraniad mae athrawon yn gallu ei wneud a'r galw sydd angen arnom ni ar gyfer athrawon i ddysgu trwy gyfrwng y Gymraeg, ac yn annog pobl i ddod i mewn i'r proffesiwn, gan fod dysgu yn un o'r proffesiynau prin hynny lle gallwch chi gael effaith sylweddol iawn ar gwrs bywyd cannoedd a miloedd o bobl, efallai, ac annog mwy a mwy o bobl i ddysgu'r Gymraeg.
I am an optimist by nature, so I agree with what the Member has just said. I think it is important, although we often discuss the challenges in terms of recruitment and so on, that we also celebrate the contribution that teachers can make and the demand for Welsh-medium teachers, and that we encourage people to come into the profession, because teaching is one of those rare professions where you can have a very substantial impact on the course of hundreds if not thousands of lives and encourage people to learn Welsh.
2. Sut mae'r Gweinidog yn gweithio gyda'r Gweinidog Newid Hinsawdd i hyrwyddo teithio llesol mewn ysgolion? OQ59598
2. How is the Minister working with the Minister for Climate Change to promote active travel in schools? OQ59598
Mae ei gwneud hi'n bosib i fwy o blant gerdded a mynd ar sgwter neu feic i’r ysgol yn flaenoriaeth allweddol i Lywodraeth Cymru, ac rŷn ni’n gweithio’n agos ar draws adrannau a chyda phartneriaid eraill i gyflawni’r amcan hwn.
Enabling more children to walk, scoot and cycle to school is a key priority for the Welsh Government, and we are working closely across departments and with other partners to achieve this aim.
Diolch, Weinidog. Ymwelais yn ddiweddar ag Ysgol Gynradd Pencoed—enghraifft arall o'r buddsoddiad mwyaf erioed mewn ysgolion yn Ogwr, a ledled Cymru, yn wir. Wrth imi gyrraedd, gwelais 30 neu fwy o feiciau a sgwteri yn y storfa bob tywydd o flaen yr ysgol. Eglurodd y pennaeth, Mr Raymond, fod staff a llywodraethwyr yr ysgol yn gweithio gyda rhieni a'r plant i annog cerdded, beicio a sgwtera i'r ysgol. Mae hyn yn digwydd yn amlach nawr, diolch i fuddsoddiad enfawr Llywodraeth Cymru mewn llwybrau diogel i'r ysgol a chyfleusterau teithio llesol mewn ysgolion hefyd. Ond mae angen inni wneud mwy. Mae angen inni gael pob ysgol yn gwneud mwy o hyn, ac mae angen i'n holl blant, ac athrawon a llywodraethwyr a rhieni, fod yn rhan ohono. Felly, wrth inni ddathlu canfed Wythnos Genedlaethol y Beic, sy'n nodi canrif o ddathlu beicio bob dydd i bawb, pa neges fydd y Gweinidog yn ei hanfon i ysgolion ledled Cymru, a pha gamau mwy ymarferol y gall Llywodraeth Cymru eu cymryd fel bod ein disgyblion yn cael y manteision i'w hiechyd, y manteision lles, mae llai o congestion ar ein ffyrdd oherwydd school runs, ac mae'n haer yn lanach i bawb?
Thank you, Minister. I recently visited Pencoed Primary School—another example of the largest ever investment in schools in Ogmore, and across Wales, indeed. As I arrived, I saw 30 or more bikes and scooters in the all-weather storage outside the school. The head, Mr Raymond, explained that staff and governors at the school are working with parents and the children to encourage walking, cycling and scooting to school. This happens more often now, thanks to huge investment made by the Welsh Government in safe routes to school and active travel facilities in schools too. But we need to do more. We need to get every school to do more of this, and all of our children, and teachers and governors and parents, have to be a part of that. So, as we celebrate the hundredth National Bike Week, which celebrates a centenary of cycling every day for everyone, what message will the Minister send to schools across Wales, and what further practical steps can the Welsh Government take so that our pupils derive the benefits to their health and well-being, there is less congestion on our roads because there will be fewer school runs, and our air is cleaner for everyone?
Diolch i Huw Irranca-Davies am y cyfle i allu annog ein hysgolion ni ar draws Cymru i wneud popeth y gallan nhw i annog, nid jest disgyblion, ond fel mae e'n ei ddweud mor bwysig yn ei gwestiwn, staff ysgol hefyd, llywodraethwyr, a'r gymuned ehangach hefyd, wrth eu bod nhw'n ymwneud â'r ysgol, i ddefnyddio ffyrdd amgen o allu cyrraedd yr ysgol. A gaf i ddiolch iddo fe am y gwaith y mae e wedi ei wneud fel cadeirydd y grŵp trawsbleidiol ar hyn o beth hefyd, sydd wedi ysgogi llawer o'r pethau sydd gyda ni mewn golwg—buddsoddiad mewn i ysgolion yn fwyfwy dibynnol ar gael cynlluniau active travel o'r math y mae e'n sôn amdanyn nhw, ond hefyd adnoddau newydd ar Hwb i gefnogi ysgolion a chymuned ysgolion i allu gwneud popeth y gallan nhw yn y ffordd y mae e'n ei ddweud yn ei gwestiwn, a'r buddsoddiad gwych, rwy'n credu, yng nghynllun School Streets, sy'n gwneud gwahaniaeth sylweddol, dwi'n gobeithio, er mwyn ei gwneud hi'n haws i ysgolion ddenu trafnidiaeth llesol i'r ysgol? A gaf i hefyd ddiolch iddo fe am ein hatgoffa ni ei bod hi'n Wythnos y Beic? Byddaf i'n seiclo i'r gwaith yfory, er mwyn dathlu'r wythnos honno.
I thank Huw Irranca-Davies for the opportunity to encourage our schools across Wales to do everything that they can to encourage not just pupils, but, as he said so very importantly in his question, school staff too, governors, and the wider community too, in their engagement with the school, to use alternative forms of transport in accessing the school. And may I thank him for the work that he's been doing as chair of the cross-party group in this area, which has encouraged many of the things that we have in mind—investment in schools is more and more reliant on having active travel programmes of the kind that he described in place, but also new resources on Hwb to support schools and the school community to do everything that they can in the way that he set out in his question, and the excellent investment in the School Streets programme, which is making a significant difference, I hope, to make it easier for schools to make use of active travel to school? And may I also thank him for reminding us that it's Bike Week? I'll be cycling to work tomorrow to celebrate that week.
Minister, while any move to encourage active travel by school pupils is to be welcomed, we also have to address the fact that, quite often, safe active travel routes don't exist for many children. I have often raised the fact that, in my own village of Pen-y-fai, we have very few safe active travel routes. We also have an issue where pupils living within the walking or wheeling distance of a school are not guaranteed entry into that school, with the allocated school often unsuitable for active travel for younger children. Minister, how are the Welsh Government working across departments, in collaboration with local authorities, to ensure that active travel is a viable option for Welsh school pupils?
Weinidog, er bod croeso i unrhyw ymgais i annog teithio llesol gan ddisgyblion ysgol, mae’n rhaid inni hefyd fynd i’r afael â’r ffaith, yn aml iawn, nad yw llwybrau teithio llesol diogel yn bodoli i lawer o blant. Rwy'n aml wedi codi’r ffaith, yn fy mhentref fy hun, Pen-y-fai, mai ychydig iawn o lwybrau teithio llesol diogel sydd gennym. Mae gennym broblem hefyd lle nad oes sicrwydd y bydd disgyblion sy’n byw o fewn pellter cerdded neu feicio i ysgol yn cael eu derbyn i’r ysgol honno, gyda’r ysgol a ddynodwyd ar eu cyfer yn aml yn anaddas ar gyfer teithio llesol i blant iau. Weinidog, sut mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn gweithio ar draws adrannau, mewn cydweithrediad ag awdurdodau lleol, i sicrhau bod teithio llesol yn opsiwn ymarferol i’n disgyblion ysgol?
I refer Altaf Hussain to the answer I just gave to Huw Irranca-Davies, which I think sets out the steps that we are taking. On the question about routes to school and making it easy for people to be able to use walking, cycling and scooting to get to the physical location of the school, we're encouraging local authorities—he asked me what we're doing with local authorities—we're encouraging local authorities to introduce School Streets, which I just mentioned in my answer to Huw Irranca-Davies. And they involve road closures around schools at the start and the end of the school day, in order to improve conditions for walking and cycling and scooting, reducing air pollution, obviously, improving road safety, also obviously. We've funded authorities to bring forward plans to do this; 13 authorities have been awarded funding to do that, and we've invested almost £5 million on those plans. I think it's a very exciting development, to make it as easy as possible for people to get to school using active travel options.
Cyfeiriaf Altaf Hussain at yr ateb rwyf newydd ei roi i Huw Irranca-Davies, sy'n nodi’r camau rydym yn eu cymryd. Ar y cwestiwn am lwybrau i'r ysgol a'i gwneud yn hawdd i bobl allu cerdded, beicio a sgwtera i gyrraedd lleoliad ffisegol yr ysgol, rydym yn annog awdurdodau lleol—gofynnodd imi beth a wnawn gydag awdurdodau lleol—i gyflwyno Strydoedd Ysgolion, rhywbeth rwyf newydd ei grybwyll yn fy ateb i Huw Irranca-Davies. Ac maent yn ymwneud â chau ffyrdd o amgylch ysgolion ar ddechrau ac ar ddiwedd y diwrnod ysgol, er mwyn gwella amodau ar gyfer cerdded a beicio a sgwtera, lleihau llygredd aer, yn amlwg, gwella diogelwch ffyrdd, hefyd yn amlwg. Fe wnaethom ariannu awdurdodau i gyflwyno cynlluniau i wneud hyn; mae 13 o awdurdodau wedi cael cyllid i wneud hynny, ac rydym wedi buddsoddi bron i £5 miliwn yn y cynlluniau hynny. Rwy’n meddwl ei fod yn ddatblygiad cyffrous iawn, i’w gwneud mor hawdd â phosibl i bobl gyrraedd yr ysgol gan ddefnyddio opsiynau teithio llesol.
Cwestiynau nawr gan lefarwyr y pleidiau. Llefarydd y Ceidwadwyr yn gyntaf—Laura Anne Jones.
Questions now from party spokespeople. The Conservative spokesperson first of all—Laura Anne Jones.
Diolch, Llywydd. Minister, I want to ask you about a seemingly hidden crisis within our Welsh schools. Thousands of violent incidents in primary schools, and hundreds in secondary schools, have been recorded in Wales. The University of Roehampton, in London, recently published a report into violence towards teaching and classroom assistants in mainstream UK schools. The report found that 53 per cent of teachers and TAs had experienced physical violence in a year, and 60 per cent had experienced verbal abuse. After submitting freedom of information requests to all the councils in Wales, my office and I managed to find the Welsh results; however, there were a few councils where it wasn't possible. Minister, since 2018-19, there have been 3,872 violent incidents recorded in our schools across Wales that we know of, and this doesn't include verbal abuse. My question to you is: why hasn't the Welsh Government addressed this issue and has allowed it to escalate in this manner?
Diolch, Lywydd. Weinidog, rwyf am ofyn ichi am argyfwng sy’n ymddangos fel pe bai’n gudd yn ein hysgolion yng Nghymru. Mae miloedd o achosion o drais mewn ysgolion cynradd a channoedd o achosion mewn ysgolion uwchradd wedi'u cofnodi yng Nghymru. Yn ddiweddar, cyhoeddodd Prifysgol Roehampton yn Llundain adroddiad ar drais tuag at gynorthwywyr addysgu a chynorthwywyr dosbarth yn ysgolion prif ffrwd y DU. Canfu’r adroddiad fod 53 y cant o athrawon a chynorthwywyr addysgu wedi profi trais corfforol mewn blwyddyn, a bod 60 y cant wedi profi cam-drin geiriol. Ar ôl cyflwyno ceisiadau rhyddid gwybodaeth i holl gynghorau Cymru, llwyddodd fy swyddfa a minnau i ddod o hyd i’r canlyniadau yng Nghymru; fodd bynnag, ni fu hynny'n bosibl yn achos rhai cynghorau. Weinidog, ers 2018-19, mae 3,872 o ddigwyddiadau treisgar, y gwyddom amdanynt, wedi’u cofnodi yn ein hysgolion ledled Cymru, ac nid yw hyn yn cynnwys cam-drin geiriol. Fy nghwestiwn i chi yw: pam nad yw Llywodraeth Cymru wedi mynd i’r afael â’r mater hwn ac wedi caniatáu iddo waethygu yn y ffordd hon?
She'll know from her work on the committee that the Government has been working with teaching unions in relation to this very question, and it is an important question. What has not been entirely clear is the scale of the issue. She has some figures there, but, as she points out herself, it's not entirely clear that that is the full picture, or that what is being reported reflects the context as well. I had a meeting yesterday, actually, where I discussed with teaching unions, with the Welsh Local Government Association, with local authorities, what we can do to understand both the scale of the issue—. She'll remember from the correspondence that the committee received from Unison that they had a survey that showed 41 per cent of their members had some experience, across a range of behaviours. And this had not, in fact, been discussed previously at the school partnership forum, so I asked for it to be brought forward. We had a good and positive discussion yesterday. There are some emerging themes about why there may be an increase in the numbers, and there certainly is a trend to show an increase. What isn't yet clear is exactly the reasons why, and the exact scale of it, but we are working with our partners to understand that and make sure that the support is there for teachers, if it's not already there.
Bydd hi’n gwybod o’i gwaith ar y pwyllgor fod y Llywodraeth wedi bod yn gweithio gydag undebau athrawon mewn perthynas â’r union gwestiwn hwn, ac mae’n gwestiwn pwysig. Yr hyn nad yw wedi bod yn gwbl glir yw maint y broblem. Mae ganddi rai ffigurau yno, ond fel y mae’n nodi ei hun, nid yw’n gwbl glir mai dyna’r darlun llawn, na bod yr hyn sy’n cael ei adrodd yn adlewyrchu’r cyd-destun hefyd. Cefais gyfarfod ddoe lle trafodais ag undebau athrawon, gyda Chymdeithas Llywodraeth Leol Cymru, gydag awdurdodau lleol, yr hyn y gallwn ei wneud i ddeall maint y broblem—. Fe fydd hi'n cofio o'r ohebiaeth a dderbyniodd y pwyllgor gan Unsain fod ganddynt arolwg a ddangosodd fod gan 41 y cant o'u haelodau rywfaint o brofiad ar draws ystod o ymddygiadau. Ac nid oedd hyn wedi cael ei drafod yn flaenorol yn y fforwm partneriaeth ysgolion, felly, gofynnais iddo gael ei ddwyn ymlaen. Cawsom drafodaeth dda a chadarnhaol ddoe. Mae rhai themâu’n dod i’r amlwg ynghylch pam y gallai fod cynnydd yn y niferoedd, ac yn sicr mae tuedd i ddangos cynnydd. Yr hyn nad yw’n glir eto yw’r union resymau pam, a’i union faint, ond rydym yn gweithio gyda’n partneriaid i ddeall hynny a gwneud yn siŵr fod cymorth yno i athrawon, os nad yw yno eisoes.
Thank you, Minister, and I'm glad that something is finally starting to be done about it, because, with Wales already experiencing a Welsh Government-made teaching number crisis, thanks to consecutive lacklustre Welsh Government efforts, it is clear to me that violence is going to push people away from the profession. Minister, instead of bringing the issue to the fore, your Government has allowed it to quietly spiral in the background for decades now. To make this worse, in Wales, we have no reporting standard—which I'm sure you'll be aware of from your meetings yesterday—and no requirement to report abuse or violence in the classroom. So, Minister, the stats I read out to you are just the tip of the iceberg, and the actual picture, as you said just now, is probably far, far worse. So, why hasn't the Government introduced a reporting standard across Wales, and why is there no requirement yet to even report violent incidents in the classroom?
Diolch, Weinidog, ac rwy’n falch fod rhywbeth yn dechrau cael ei wneud yn ei gylch o’r diwedd, oherwydd gyda Chymru eisoes yn profi argyfwng gyda niferoedd athrawon a achoswyd gan Lywodraeth Cymru, diolch i ymdrechion di-fflach Llywodraethau olynol yng Nghymru, mae’n amlwg i mi fod trais yn mynd i wthio pobl oddi wrth y proffesiwn. Weinidog, yn lle dod â’r mater i’r amlwg, mae eich Llywodraeth wedi caniatáu iddo waethygu’n dawel yn y cefndir ers degawdau bellach. I wneud hyn yn waeth yng Nghymru, nid oes gennym unrhyw safon adrodd—fel rwy'n siŵr y byddwch yn gwybod o'ch cyfarfod ddoe—na gofyniad i adrodd am gamdriniaeth neu drais yn yr ystafell ddosbarth. Felly, Weinidog, mae mwy i’r ystadegau hyn a ddarllenais i chi nag a welir, ac mae’r darlun gwirioneddol, fel y dywedoch chi nawr, yn llawer iawn gwaeth yn ôl pob tebyg. Felly, pam nad yw'r Llywodraeth wedi cyflwyno safon adrodd ledled Cymru, a pham nad oes gofyniad hyd yma i adrodd am achosion o drais, hyd yn oed, yn yr ystafell ddosbarth?
Well, they are reported; the question is what they're being reported as. And there will be, certainly, examples when they are not reported. So, I obviously accept that. That is a feature of reporting requirements across the board in other contexts as well. What we need to understand is what is the scale of the issue and why is it happening. There are particular pressures in schools at the moment, partly caused by the response to COVID and some behaviour challenges that have arisen, no doubt, as a consequence of that. What we need to do is work together with our partners to understand the issue in its entirety, so that we can respond fully then, and that's obviously what we're doing, as I mentioned.
Wel, maent yn cael eu hadrodd; y cwestiwn yw sut maent yn cael eu hadrodd, ac yn sicr, bydd yna enghreifftiau lle na chânt eu hadrodd. Felly, rwy’n amlwg yn derbyn hynny. Mae hynny’n nodwedd o ofynion adrodd yn gyffredinol mewn cyd-destunau eraill hefyd. Yr hyn y mae angen inni ei ddeall yw beth yw maint y broblem a pham ei fod yn digwydd. Mae pwysau arbennig ar ysgolion ar hyn o bryd, yn rhannol oherwydd yr ymateb i COVID, ac mae yna heriau ymddygiad wedi codi o ganlyniad i hynny, heb os. Yr hyn y mae angen inni ei wneud yw cydweithio â’n partneriaid i ddeall y broblem yn ei chyfanrwydd, fel y gallwn ymateb yn llawn bryd hynny, ac yn amlwg dyna rydym yn ei wneud, fel y soniais.
Thank you, Minister. I know you're always keen for me to bring ideas to the floor of the Senedd to help you, so here we go. You said here, just now, that we need to understand the scale of the problem. So, why don't you host a national summit on violence in schools, secondly, issue new guidance to teachers, staff and school leaders, (3) reform exclusion procedures, so that pupils who are excluded then go on to receive the support they actually need, (4) ensure extra funding for meaningful interventions to support victims and perpetrators of violence, and (5) create a national helpline to support teachers and staff who are afraid to report violence and disruption? So, Minister, will you agree to look at those suggestions that I have made today, and finally give the issue the attention this clearly deserves? Our students deserve better, and our teachers deserve better. Thank you.
Diolch, Weinidog. Rwy'n gwybod eich bod bob amser yn awyddus imi ddod â syniadau i'r Senedd i'ch helpu, felly dyma ni. Fe ddywedoch chi yma, nawr, fod angen inni ddeall maint y broblem. Felly, pam na wnewch chi gynnal uwchgynhadledd genedlaethol ar drais mewn ysgolion, ac yn ail, cyhoeddi canllawiau newydd i athrawon, staff ac arweinwyr ysgol; (3) diwygio gweithdrefnau gwahardd, fel bod pobl sy'n cael eu gwahardd wedyn yn mynd ymlaen i gael y cymorth sydd ei angen arnynt; (4) sicrhau cyllid ychwanegol ar gyfer ymyriadau ystyrlon i gefnogi dioddefwyr a chyflawnwyr trais, a (5) creu llinell gymorth genedlaethol i gefnogi athrawon a staff sy'n ofni adrodd am drais ac aflonyddwch. Felly, Weinidog, a wnewch chi gytuno i edrych ar yr awgrymiadau a wnaed gennyf heddiw, ac yn olaf, rhoi'r sylw y mae'n ei haeddu i’r mater? Mae ein myfyrwyr yn haeddu gwell, ac mae ein hathrawon yn haeddu gwell. Diolch.
Well, thank you to the Member for bringing some positive suggestions to the discussion; I absolutely welcome the new tone in her contribution. So, what we will be doing is working with our partners who are the experts in the field on this—so, with our teaching union partners, with our local education authority partners, and with other experts, to understand the points that I made earlier in my previous answers to the Member. It is an important issue, and we all want to understand, together, what is happening and why, so that we can have an informed response to that.
She made a particular point about exclusions. She'll know that, earlier in the week, I issued the attendance guidance for consultation. Alongside that, there is already work happening in relation to exclusions to refresh that guidance, and it will encompass some of the points that she's actually made today. So, that work is already under way, and I'll be very happy to update the Senedd on that work in due course.
Wel, diolch i’r Aelod am ddod ag awgrymiadau cadarnhaol i’r drafodaeth; rwy’n croesawu’n llwyr y cywair newydd yn ei chyfraniad. Felly, yr hyn y byddwn yn ei wneud yw gweithio ar hyn gyda'n partneriaid, sy'n arbenigwyr yn y maes—felly, gyda'n partneriaid yn yr undebau athrawon, gyda'n partneriaid yn yr awdurdodau addysg lleol, a chydag arbenigwyr eraill, i ddeall y pwyntiau a wneuthum yn fy atebion blaenorol i’r Aelod yn gynharach. Mae’n fater pwysig, ac mae pob un ohonom eisiau deall, gyda’n gilydd, beth sy’n digwydd a pham, fel y gallwn gael ymateb gwybodus i hynny.
Gwnaeth bwynt penodol am waharddiadau. Fe fydd hi'n gwybod fy mod, yn gynharach yn yr wythnos, wedi cyhoeddi'r canllawiau presenoldeb ar gyfer ymgynghoriad. Ochr yn ochr â hynny, mae gwaith eisoes yn digwydd mewn perthynas â gwaharddiadau i adnewyddu’r canllawiau hynny, a bydd yn cwmpasu rhai o’r pwyntiau y mae hi wedi’u gwneud heddiw. Felly, mae’r gwaith hwnnw eisoes ar y gweill, a byddaf yn hapus iawn i roi’r wybodaeth ddiweddaraf i’r Senedd am y gwaith hwnnw maes o law.
Llefarydd Plaid Cymru nawr—Sioned Williams.
Plaid Cymru spokesperson now—Sioned Williams.
Diolch, Llywydd. Prynhawn da, Gweinidog. Mae data HESA ar gyfer 2021-22, a gafodd ei ryddhau yn ddiweddar, yn dangos sector addysg uwch yng Nghymru sy'n ei chael hi'n anodd ymdopi â chostau cynyddol. Mae diwedd y flwyddyn academaidd hon wedi'i ddominyddu gan bryderon am brisiau ynni a chwyddiant cynyddol, gweithredu diwydiannol dros gyflogau a phensiynau, pryderon ynghylch caledi myfyrwyr, ac mae gwerth y cap ffioedd cartref yng Nghymru yn gostwng yn gyflym felly, a’r sector wedi bod yn gorfod torri gwariant a gwneud arbedion yn wyneb rhewi’r ffioedd ers nifer o flynyddoedd. Canlyniad anorfod hyn yw bod staff yn wynebu gorfod gwneud mwy heb y cynnydd cymesur mewn cyflog nag adnoddau. Dim ond trwy gynyddu incwm trwy recriwtio y gall darparwyr gadw’u capasiti presennol nhw, ond heb y gallu i fuddsoddi er mwyn sicrhau bod myfyrwyr yn cael profiad o ansawdd da, mae’n gylch dieflig.
All y Gweinidog, felly, amlinellu pa gamau y mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn eu cymryd i fynd i'r afael â'r bwlch incwm gwariant pryderus yma sy’n cael ei arddangos yn y ffigurau HESA ar gyfer prifysgolion Cymru? Sut ŷch chi’n mynd i gefnogi sefydliadau addysg uwch yng Nghymru i’r dyfodol yn sgil hyn?
A, Llywydd, dylwn i fod wedi datgan diddordeb bod fy ngŵr yn gyflogedig gan Brifysgol Abertawe.
Thank you, Llywydd. Good afternoon, Minister. The Higher Education Statistics Agency data for 2021-22, which was released recently, shows a further education sector in Wales that finds it difficult to cope with increased costs. The end of this academic year has been dominated by concerns about energy prices and inflation, industrial action over wages and pensions, concerns about hardship among students, and the value of the home fees cap in Wales is declining swiftly, and the sector has been having to cut back on expenditure to make savings in the face of frozen fees for several years. The inevitable result of this is that staff have to face doing more without the proportionate increase in wages or resources. It’s only through increasing income through recruitment that providers can maintain their current capacity, but without the ability to invest to ensure that students receive a high-quality experience, it is a vicious cycle.
So, can the Minister outline what steps the Welsh Government is taking to tackle this income gap, this concerning gap, which is demonstrated in the HESA figures for universities in Wales? How are you going to support higher education institutions in Wales as a result of this in future?
And, Llywydd, I should have declared an interest that my husband is employed by Swansea University.
Wel, dwi ddim yn gwybod os oedd yr Aelod yn fy meirniadu i am beidio â chynyddu ffioedd, ond dwi ddim yn bwriadu cynyddu ffioedd. Mae’n gyfnod anodd i fyfyrwyr ar hyn o bryd, ac felly rwy’n sicr bod angen cefnogi sefydliadau, ond mae hefyd eisiau sicrhau nad yw myfyrwyr yn talu hefyd yn ychwanegol. Felly, mae cyllideb eleni i’r sector dros ryw £212 miliwn i’r sector, felly mae'n gyllideb sylweddol iawn. Rŷn ni wedi gwneud ein gorau glas i sicrhau, o fewn y pwysau aruthrol sydd ar gyllideb Llywodraeth Cymru, ein bod ni’n parhau i flaenoriaethu buddsoddi mewn sefydliadau addysg uwch, a dyna beth rŷn ni wedi’i wneud eleni. Dwi ddim am eiliad yn tanystyru’r pwyntiau y mae’r Aelod yn eu gwneud; maen nhw’n bwyntiau pwysig. Mae pwysau ar sefydliadau, fel sydd ar bob rhan arall o’n gwasanaethau ni a’n cymdeithas a’n heconomi ni. Dwi mewn trafodaeth gyson gyda’r is-gangellorion ar hyn o bryd i weld beth yw goblygiadau, beth yw implications, hyn, a beth mwy y gallwn ni ei wneud ar y cyd i weithredu efallai mewn ffyrdd gwahanol, er mwyn cydnabod bod y pwysau ariannol gyda ni yn bwysau real iawn, ac mae’r trafodaethau hynny wedi bod yn rhai creadigol a chalonogol ac yn mynd i barhau.
Well, I don’t know if the Member was criticising me for not increasing fees; I don’t intend to do so. It’s a difficult time for students at the moment, and I’m certain that we need to support institutions, but we also need to ensure that students don’t pay more too. So, the budget for the sector this year is around some £212 million, so it is a very substantial budget. We’ve done our very best to ensure, given the huge pressures on Welsh Government budgets, that we continue to prioritise investment in our higher education institutions, and that’s what we have done this year. I don’t for a moment doubt the points that the Member has made; they are important points. There is pressure on our institutions, as there is elsewhere in society and our economy. I am in ongoing discussions with our vice-chancellors at the moment to see what the implications of this are, and what more we can do together in order to work differently, recognising that the financial pressures upon us are very real indeed, and those discussions have been creative and encouraging and will continue.
Diolch. The Government’s youth work strategy states clearly the important role of youth work to Wales, to promote and actively encourage opportunities for all young people, in order that they may fulfil the potential as empowered individuals and as members of groups and the community, thereby improving their life chances. Welsh Government have invested in this strategy and its youth work implementation board is committed to promoting youth work as a profession and as a career. It’s therefore concerning and disappointing that Wrexham university has officially withdrawn its undergraduate youth and community work programme, and, as a result of this, there is now no coherent route from the level 3 youth work support qualification to professional qualification in north and mid Wales; only a Master of Arts provision will remain. There’s widespread concern about this in the sector; the MA, they say, is unsuitable for many of the potential undergraduate candidates who come up through work in their local communities. Graduates from Wrexham mostly go on to practice in the north of Wales, and training elsewhere runs the risk of them remaining in the south of Wales or even elsewhere in the UK, and then also, of course, unable to benefit from local Welsh-medium opportunities across the region. So, could you please outline what discussions you’ve had with Wrexham university regarding the withdrawal of this undergraduate programme, and what assessment has been made by the Government of how the withdrawal impacts the number of undergraduates who go on to practice professional youth and community work in north and mid Wales?
Diolch. Mae strategaeth gwaith ieuenctid y Llywodraeth yn datgan yn glir pa mor bwysig yw rôl gwaith ieuenctid i Gymru, i hyrwyddo ac annog cyfleoedd ar gyfer pob person ifanc, er mwyn iddynt allu cyflawni’r potensial i fod yn unigolion sydd wedi’u grymuso, ac fel aelodau o grwpiau a’r gymuned, a thrwy hynny wella eu cyfleoedd bywyd. Mae Llywodraeth Cymru wedi buddsoddi yn y strategaeth hon ac mae ei bwrdd gweithredu ar waith ieuenctid wedi ymrwymo i hyrwyddo gwaith ieuenctid fel proffesiwn ac fel gyrfa. Mae’n destun pryder a siom felly fod prifysgol Wrecsam wedi cael gwared ar ei rhaglen israddedig ar waith ieuenctid a chymunedol yn swyddogol, ac o ganlyniad i hyn, nid oes llwybr cydlynol bellach o’r cymhwyster cymorth gwaith ieuenctid lefel 3 i gymhwyster proffesiynol yng ngogledd a chanolbarth Cymru; darpariaeth MA yn unig fydd yn parhau. Mae pryder eang am hyn yn y sector; mae'r MA, meddent, yn anaddas i lawer o'r ymgeiswyr israddedig posibl sy'n dod i fyny trwy waith yn eu cymunedau lleol. Mae graddedigion o Wrecsam gan amlaf yn mynd ymlaen i ymarfer yng ngogledd Cymru ac mae hyfforddiant mewn mannau eraill yn creu risg y byddant yn aros yn ne Cymru, neu yn rhywle arall yn y DU hyd yn oed, ac yna hefyd, wrth gwrs, yn methu manteisio ar gyfleoedd cyfrwng Cymraeg lleol ar draws y rhanbarth. Felly, a fyddech cystal ag amlinellu pa drafodaethau a gawsoch gyda phrifysgol Wrecsam ynglŷn â chael gwared ar y rhaglen israddedig hon, a pha asesiad a wnaed gan y Llywodraeth o sut mae ei dileu yn effeithio ar nifer yr israddedigion sy’n mynd ymlaen i ymarfer gwaith ieuenctid a chymunedol proffesiynol yng ngogledd a chanolbarth Cymru?
Well, the Member’s right to point out that supporting and strengthening youth work provision across Wales is a priority for me as a Minister, but also it’s a cross-Government priority. It’s part of our programme for government, and that involves a number of things. It involves seeking to review the funding structure for youth work provision right across Wales, which is, I think, variable in different parts of Wales. We’ve made significant financial commitments as well to the sector. The work of the implementation board is really extremely valuable, and continues to help lead the way through the reforms that we are seeking to undertake, and we’re also—as the Member will know—looking at the legislative basis for youth work service provision right across Wales. I have not myself had discussions in relation to the particular undergraduate course that she refers to in her question. Obviously, the provision of courses is a matter for universities as autonomous institutions themselves, but I will seek to find out more in relation to that particular course, and I’m very happy to write to the Member in light of that.
Wel, mae’r Aelod yn iawn i nodi bod cefnogi a chryfhau’r ddarpariaeth gwaith ieuenctid ledled Cymru yn flaenoriaeth i mi fel Gweinidog, ond mae hefyd yn flaenoriaeth drawslywodraethol. Mae’n rhan o’n rhaglen lywodraethu, ac mae a wnelo hynny â nifer o bethau. Mae'n ymwneud â cheisio adolygu'r strwythur ariannu ar gyfer darpariaeth gwaith ieuenctid ledled Cymru, sy'n amrywio mewn gwahanol rannau o Gymru, rwy'n credu. Rydym hefyd wedi gwneud ymrwymiadau ariannol sylweddol i’r sector. Mae gwaith y bwrdd gweithredu yn wirioneddol werthfawr, ac yn parhau i helpu i arwain y ffordd drwy’r diwygiadau y ceisiwn eu cyflawni, ac rydym hefyd—fel y bydd yr Aelod yn gwybod—yn edrych ar y sail ddeddfwriaethol ar gyfer y ddarpariaeth o wasanaethau gwaith ieuenctid ledled Cymru. Nid wyf wedi cael trafodaethau mewn perthynas â’r cwrs israddedig penodol y mae’n cyfeirio ato yn ei chwestiwn. Yn amlwg, mater i brifysgolion fel sefydliadau ymreolaethol eu hunain yw darparu cyrsiau, ond fe geisiaf ddarganfod mwy mewn perthynas â’r cwrs penodol hwnnw, ac rwy’n hapus iawn i ysgrifennu at yr Aelod yn sgil hynny.
3. A wnaiff y Gweinidog ddatganiad am ddefnyddio asiantaethau i ddarparu cynorthwywyr addysgu mewn ysgolion? OQ59593
3. Will the Minister make a statement on the use of agencies to provide teaching assistants in schools? OQ59593
Gwnaf yn wir. Fel sy'n wir am bob mater staffio, wrth gwrs, ysgolion sy'n gyfrifol am benderfynu sut i recriwtio cynorthwywyr addysgu. Bydd eu penderfyniadau nhw yn wahanol yn ôl anghenion unigol yr ysgol a'i dysgwyr. Gall ysgolion gyflogi staff cyflenwi yn uniongyrchol neu drwy eu hawdurdod lleol neu asiantaeth gyflogi.
I will indeed. As with all staffing matters, of course, schools are responsible for making decisions on how they recruit teaching assistants. Decisions will differ depending on the individual needs of the school and its learners. Schools are able to employ cover staff directly or they can engage them via their local authority or an employment agency.
In February 2022, you announced the creation of a teaching assistant professional learning steering group to develop further resources for school leaders and governors on the deployment of TAs. I understand that the steering group has been considering the issue of minimum entry requirements for TAs as part of its work—if you can confirm that's the case. And it's been brought to my attention from a constituent of mine that some agencies are advertising TA vacancies in schools for pupils with ALN that require no qualifications at all, and we are a little concerned about that. Can you please comment on this and provide an update on the work of the steering group on the issue of minimum entry requirements, and when that steering group is likely to report on that issue?
Ym mis Chwefror 2022, fe wnaethoch gyhoeddi eich bod yn creu grŵp llywio dysgu proffesiynol i gynorthwywyr addysgu er mwyn datblygu adnoddau pellach ar gyfer arweinwyr a llywodraethwyr ysgolion ar ddefnyddio cynorthwywyr addysgu. Deallaf fod y grŵp llywio wedi bod yn ystyried isafswm gofynion mynediad ar gyfer cynorthwywyr addysgu fel rhan o’i waith—os gallwch gadarnhau hynny. Ac fe dynnodd etholwr fy sylw at y ffaith bod rhai asiantaethau yn hysbysebu swyddi cynorthwywyr addysgu mewn ysgolion ar gyfer disgyblion ag anghenion dysgu ychwanegol nad ydynt yn galw am unrhyw gymwysterau o gwbl, ac rydym ychydig yn bryderus ynglŷn â hynny. A wnewch chi roi sylwadau ar hyn os gwelwch yn dda a rhoi’r wybodaeth ddiweddaraf am waith y grŵp llywio ar fater isafswm y gofynion mynediad, a phryd mae’r grŵp llywio’n debygol o adrodd ar y mater hwnnw?
We had a discussion yesterday, in fact, at the meeting that I referred to yesterday in relation to the progress that is being made by that group, and it's very much got teaching assistants at the heart of it and leading some aspects of it, which I think is a really important feature of it. It's been looking at a range of aspects. Deployment is one aspect, and terms and conditions more broadly, and how we can standardise an approach to recruitment, employment and deployment between the different local authorities in Wales. And, as the Member was asking in his question, a significant part of the work has been enhancing professional learning and training for teaching assistants. Teaching assistants now have the same entitlement as teachers to the national professional learning entitlement, and the funding that is made available to schools to support professional learning now takes account of the number of teaching assistants on the school roll, as well as the number of teachers. So, there is a marked shift, I think, in the support provided to teaching assistants from a professional learning perspective. The group is also looking at questions to do with qualifications, as the Member knows. We already have a training programme through the teaching assistants learning pathway, which provides career progression for teaching assistants. One of the considerations is around professional qualifications more broadly. I'm afraid I don't know the date for the report on that aspect off the top of my head, but I'm happy to provide the Member with that particular piece of information separately. He'll remember that I gave an update to the Senedd on the work of the workforce implementation group more broadly a few months ago, and I'll be looking to do that periodically over coming months as well.
Cawsom drafodaeth ddoe mewn gwirionedd, yn y cyfarfod y cyfeiriais ato mewn perthynas â'r cynnydd sy'n cael ei wneud gan y grŵp hwnnw, ac mae cynorthwywyr addysgu yn ganolog iddo ac yn arwain rhai agweddau arno, sydd, yn fy marn i, yn nodwedd wirioneddol bwysig ohono. Mae wedi bod yn edrych ar ystod o agweddau. Mae defnydd yn un agwedd, a thelerau ac amodau yn fwy eang, a sut y gallwn safoni dull o recriwtio, cyflogi a defnyddio rhwng y gwahanol awdurdodau lleol yng Nghymru, ac fel y gofynnodd yr Aelod yn ei gwestiwn, rhan sylweddol o’r gwaith yw gwella dysgu proffesiynol a hyfforddiant ar gyfer cynorthwywyr addysgu. Mae gan gynorthwywyr addysgu bellach yr un hawl ag athrawon i’r hawl dysgu proffesiynol cenedlaethol, ac mae’r cyllid sydd ar gael i ysgolion i gefnogi dysgu proffesiynol bellach yn ystyried nifer y cynorthwywyr addysgu ar gofrestr yr ysgol, yn ogystal â nifer yr athrawon. Felly, rwy'n credu bod newid amlwg yn y cymorth a ddarperir i gynorthwywyr addysgu o safbwynt dysgu proffesiynol. Mae’r grŵp hefyd yn edrych ar gwestiynau’n ymwneud â chymwysterau, fel y gŵyr yr Aelod. Mae gennym eisoes raglen hyfforddi trwy lwybr dysgu cynorthwywyr addysgu, sy’n darparu modd i gynorthwywyr addysgu gamu ymlaen yn eu gyrfa. Mae un o'r ystyriaethau'n ymwneud â chymwysterau proffesiynol yn ehangach. Mae arnaf ofn nad wyf yn cofio dyddiad yr adroddiad ar yr agwedd honno, ond rwy'n hapus i ddarparu'r wybodaeth benodol honno ar wahân i'r Aelod. Fe fydd yn cofio imi roi diweddariad i’r Senedd am waith grŵp gweithredu’r gweithlu yn ehangach ychydig fisoedd yn ôl, a byddaf yn ceisio gwneud hynny o bryd i’w gilydd dros y misoedd nesaf hefyd.
Can I thank Hefin David for tabling this question? As a former agency teaching assistant myself, as the Minister knows, I'm particularly pleased that you tabled this today. If the Minister will indulge me on a short but brisk walk down memory lane, Minister, you'll have a seen a very happy time for me, but one instance in particular I just wanted to draw your attention to today. Obviously, as a teaching assistant employed by an agency, I was paid on a daily rate, and on one particular day it snowed and the headteacher had judged it to be unsafe and so had sent the children home at lunch time. What that meant was that I was only paid half a day's pay on that day, which really threw off, obviously, weekly budgets and other considerations, and I had had all the same expenses in travelling back and forth to the school on that day as well. Obviously, I understand that you haven't got powers over employment law, but you do have powers over guidance that you can issue to headteachers and school leaders when making decisions like that. So, can I ask what steps you've taken in this field to ensure that no other teaching assistants in the future have to go through what I went through, all those years ago?
A gaf fi ddiolch i Hefin David am gyflwyno’r cwestiwn hwn? Fel cyn gynorthwyydd addysgu asiantaeth fy hun, fel y gŵyr y Gweinidog, rwy’n arbennig o falch eich bod wedi cyflwyno hyn heddiw. Os gwnaiff y Gweinidog ganiatáu imi fynd ar daith fer a chyflym ar hyd llwybr atgofion, Weinidog, fe fyddwch wedi gweld amser hapus iawn i mi, ond roeddwn am dynnu eich sylw at un enghraifft yn arbennig heddiw. Yn amlwg, fel cynorthwyydd addysgu a gyflogid gan asiantaeth, cawn fy nhalu ar gyfradd ddyddiol, ac ar un diwrnod penodol, fe wnaeth hi fwrw eira ac roedd y pennaeth wedi barnu ei bod yn anniogel ac felly, fe wnaeth anfon y plant adref amser cinio. Roedd hynny'n golygu mai dim ond hanner diwrnod o dâl a gefais y diwrnod hwnnw, a oedd yn effeithio ar gyllidebau wythnosol ac ystyriaethau eraill, yn amlwg, ac roedd gennyf yr un costau teithio i ac o’r ysgol ar y diwrnod hwnnw. Yn amlwg, rwy’n deall nad oes gennych bwerau dros gyfraith cyflogaeth, ond mae gennych bwerau dros ganllawiau y gallwch eu rhoi i benaethiaid ac arweinwyr ysgolion wrth wneud penderfyniadau fel hynny. Felly, a gaf fi ofyn pa gamau a roddwyd ar waith gennych yn y maes hwn i sicrhau na fydd yn rhaid i unrhyw gynorthwywyr addysgu eraill yn y dyfodol gael yr un profiad â mi, yr holl flynyddoedd hynny yn ôl?
The Member makes a very important point, and more powerfully so for having been based on his own experience of it, of course. He's right to say I don't have direct powers in relation to it, but the reason I launched this work programme over a year ago is because of stories like the Member has just given and experience of variable practice, both between schools and certainly between local education authorities as well. The point of the work is to result in guidance in relation to many of those questions, questions to do with terms and conditions, progression, but also that will provide a basis, I think, for us to be able to progress on the question of pay as well, which is absolutely paramount, both from the experience of each individual teaching assistant, but also to make sure that we have a teaching assistant workforce to do the fantastic work that they do in our schools.
Mae’r Aelod yn gwneud pwynt pwysig iawn, ac yn fwy pwerus felly am ei fod wedi’i seilio ar ei brofiad ei hun ohono, wrth gwrs. Mae'n iawn i ddweud nad oes gennyf bwerau uniongyrchol mewn perthynas â hynny, ond y rheswm pam y lansiais y rhaglen waith hon dros flwyddyn yn ôl yw oherwydd straeon fel yr un y mae'r Aelod newydd ei roi a phrofiadau o ymarfer sy'n amrywio rhwng ysgolion ac yn sicr rhwng awdurdodau addysg lleol hefyd. Pwynt y gwaith yw arwain at ganllawiau mewn perthynas â llawer o’r cwestiynau hynny, cwestiynau’n ymwneud â thelerau ac amodau, cynnydd gyrfaol, ond hefyd cwestiynau y credaf y byddant yn darparu sylfaen inni allu symud ymlaen ar fater tâl hefyd, sy’n hollbwysig, o brofiad pob cynorthwyydd addysgu unigol, ond hefyd i wneud yn siŵr fod gennym weithlu o gynorthwywyr addysgu i wneud y gwaith gwych y maent yn ei wneud yn ein hysgolion.
4. Sut mae'r Gweinidog yn gweithio gyda'r Gweinidog Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol i gefnogi ysgolion sy'n dymuno cynnal clybiau gwyliau? OQ59595
4. How is the Minister working with the Minister for Health and Social Services to support schools who wish to run holiday clubs? OQ59595
The Welsh Government continues to grow the school holiday enrichment programme, SHEP, and £4.85 million has been allocated for the programme for this year. The Deputy Minister for Social Services and I work closely to ensure alignment between SHEP and the Playworks holiday programme, which is run by play and childcare providers.
Mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn parhau i dyfu rhaglen gwella gwyliau'r haf ac mae £4.85 miliwn wedi'i ddyrannu i'r rhaglen ar gyfer eleni. Mae'r Dirprwy Weinidog Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol a minnau yn gweithio'n agos i sicrhau cysondeb rhwng rhaglen gwella gwyliau'r haf a'r rhaglen wyliau Gwaith Chwarae, sy'n cael ei rhedeg gan ddarparwyr chwarae a gofal plant.
I'm grateful for that answer, Minister, and for the support you offer schools. Ysgol Pen Coch in Flintshire have an ambition as a school to run a holiday club as well, but they do, as a school, face additional challenges. I wonder, with what you've said there, is there any additional support the Welsh Government could provide schools, like Ysgol Pen Coch, to deliver holiday club provision. And I wonder whether you could ask either your officials in the education department or the Deputy Minister's officials in the health and social services department to look into the specific case of Ysgol Pen Coch. And if they could report back to me on that as well, that would be great.
Rwy'n ddiolchgar am yr ateb hwnnw, Weinidog, ac am y gefnogaeth rydych yn ei chynnig i ysgolion. Mae gan Ysgol Pen Coch yn sir y Fflint uchelgais fel ysgol i redeg clwb gwyliau hefyd, ond fel ysgol, maent yn wynebu heriau ychwanegol. Gyda'r hyn rydych wedi'i ddweud, tybed a oes unrhyw gefnogaeth ychwanegol y gallai Llywodraeth Cymru ei darparu i ysgolion, fel Ysgol Pen Coch, i sicrhau darpariaeth o glybiau gwyliau. Ac a wnewch chi ofyn naill ai i'ch swyddogion yn yr adran addysg neu i swyddogion y Dirprwy Weinidog yn yr adran iechyd a gwasanaethau cymdeithasol edrych ar achos penodol Ysgol Pen Coch. Ac os gallant adrodd yn ôl i mi ar hynny hefyd, byddai hynny'n wych.
I'm happy to do that, Llywydd. Generally speaking, where a school is interested in running a holiday club, they will contact their local authority in the first instance, and then local authorities can put them in contact with other providers who might be interested in working together with them. In terms of the Food and Fun school holiday enrichment programme, I'll make sure that my officials work with the Welsh Local Government Association to make sure that the school has whatever information that it needs in order to be able to take that forward.
Rwy'n hapus i wneud hynny, Lywydd. Yn gyffredinol, lle mae gan ysgol ddiddordeb mewn rhedeg clwb gwyliau, byddant yn cysylltu â'u hawdurdod lleol yn y lle cyntaf, ac yna gall awdurdodau lleol eu rhoi mewn cysylltiad â darparwyr eraill a allai fod â diddordeb mewn cydweithio â nhw. O ran y rhaglen gwella gwyliau'r haf, Bwyd a Hwyl, byddaf yn gwneud yn siŵr fod fy swyddogion yn gweithio gyda Chymdeithas Llywodraeth Leol Cymru i sicrhau bod gan yr ysgol unrhyw wybodaeth sydd ei hangen arni er mwyn gallu bwrw ymlaen â hynny.
I've also been contacted by constituents regarding Ysgol Pen Coch, which is the only publicly funded primary school for disabled children in Flintshire, where lots of the pupils have autism and related conditions or complex needs, and at which a holiday club would make a huge difference to the well-being of pupils and their families. However, as we've heard, this school, unlike other schools in the county, doesn't have provision for a holiday club, where, I'm told by constituents, this would be much more costly than in a mainstream school, and they lack the funding and the expertise, leaving parents and governors to take it on, which is unrealistic. And, as they say, children in specialist schools are being treated differently to children in mainstream schools, when their behaviours and improvements need this provision more and needs to be addressed. So, what, if any, specific requirement, therefore, exists for such provision within primary schools in general and in specialist primary schools for pupils with additional learning needs in particular?
Mae etholwyr wedi cysylltu â minnau hefyd ynglŷn ag Ysgol Pen Coch, sef yr unig ysgol gynradd a ariennir yn gyhoeddus ar gyfer plant anabl yn sir y Fflint, lle mae gan lawer o'r disgyblion awtistiaeth a chyflyrau cysylltiedig neu anghenion cymhleth, a lle byddai clwb gwyliau yn gwneud gwahaniaeth enfawr i les disgyblion a'u teuluoedd. Fodd bynnag, fel y clywsom, yn wahanol i ysgolion eraill yn y sir, nid oes gan yr ysgol hon ddarpariaeth clwb gwyliau, lle byddai hyn yn llawer drutach na mewn ysgol brif ffrwd yn ôl yr hyn y mae etholwyr yn ei ddweud wrthyf, ac nid oes ganddynt arian ac arbenigedd, gan adael rhieni a llywodraethwyr i'w weithredu, sy'n afrealistig. Ac fel maent yn ei ddweud, mae plant mewn ysgolion arbennig yn cael eu trin yn wahanol i blant mewn ysgolion prif ffrwd, pan fo angen rhagor o ddarpariaeth ar gyfer eu hymddygiad a'u gwelliannau, ac angen ei hasesu. Felly, pa ofyniad penodol, os o gwbl, sy'n bodoli ar gyfer darpariaeth o'r fath mewn ysgolion cynradd yn gyffredinol, ac mewn ysgolion cynradd arbenigol ar gyfer disgyblion ag anghenion dysgu ychwanegol yn enwedig?
Well, I hope the answer that I just gave to Jack Sargeant provides some reassurance to the Member that I will ask my officials to work with the WLGA to support schools specifically, to understand what the particular barriers are and how best they can be addressed at a school level.
Wel, rwy'n gobeithio y bydd yr ateb a roddais i Jack Sargeant yn rhoi rhywfaint o sicrwydd i'r Aelod y byddaf yn gofyn i fy swyddogion weithio gyda Chymdeithas Llywodraeth Leol Cymru i gefnogi ysgolion yn benodol, i ddeall beth yw'r rhwystrau arbennig a'r ffordd orau o fynd i'r afael â nhw ar lefel ysgolion.
5. Pa gynnydd sydd wedi ei wneud ar ddarparu cyfloedd trochi yn y Gymraeg i ddysgwyr oed ysgol yng Nghanol De Cymru? OQ59588
5. What progress has been made in providing immersion opportunities in the Welsh language for school age learners in South Wales Central? OQ59588
Rwyf wedi ymrwymo £6.6 miliwn dros weddill cyfnod y Senedd hon i ehangu darpariaethau trochi hwyr ar draws Cymru. Mae bron £1 filiwn yn cael ei buddsoddi dros gyfnod o dair blynedd i sefydlu darpariaethau newydd yn siroedd Rhondda Cynon Taf a Bro Morgannwg, ac i ehangu yn sylweddol y ddarpariaeth sydd yng Nghaerdydd.
I've committed £6.6 million over the reminder of this Senedd term to expand immersion provision across Wales. Almost £1 million is being invested over a three-year period to establish new provisions in Rhondda Cynon Taf and in the Vale of Glamorgan, and to significantly expand provision in Cardiff.
Diolch yn fawr iawn. Dwi'n gwybod ein bod ni yn hollol gytûn o ran gwerth trochi. Rydyn ni i gyd wedi adlewyrchu’n flaenorol gweld pobl o Wcráin, er enghraifft, wedi manteisio ar hynny a dod yn hollol rugl yn y Gymraeg. Ond eto, mae yna amrywiaethau mawr ar y funud yn fy rhanbarth fy hun. Er enghraifft, ym Mro Morgannwg, diolch i'r buddsoddiad gan y Llywodraeth, mae'n bosib i blentyn fod am 12 wythnos mewn ysgol, o ddydd Llun i ddydd Iau, lle mae’r profiad yn Rhondda Cynon Taf ar y funud ydy efallai awr y diwrnod, sy'n wahaniaeth mawr. Felly, beth hoffwn weld ydy sut ydyn ni'n sicrhau bod trochi, a throchi gwirioneddol felly, er mwyn i blant a phobl ifanc gael y cyfle i fedru’r Gymraeg—. Sut ydyn ni'n sicrhau nad loteri cod post mo’r profiad hwnnw, a’n bod ni'n gallu rhoi’r un math o gynnig, boed ichi fod ym Mro Morgannwg, Caerdydd neu Rhondda Cynon Taf, sef y tair ardal o ran awdurdodau lleol yn fy rhanbarth i?
Thank you very much. I know that we are entirely agreed on the value of immersion. We've all reflected previously on people from Ukraine who have taken advantage of that provision and become fluent in the Welsh language. But there's huge variation in provision at the moment. In my own region, in the Vale of Glamorgan, thanks to the investment of the Welsh Government, a child can be for 12 weeks at school, from Monday to Thursday, whereas the experience in RCT at the moment is perhaps an hour a day, which is a huge difference. So, what I would like to see is how we ensure that immersion, and genuine immersion, so that children and young people can have the opportunity to be able to speak Welsh—. How can we ensure that it isn't a postcode lottery, and that we can provide the same kind of offer, be that in the Vale of Glamorgan, in Cardiff or RCT, which make up the three areas in terms of local authorities in my region?
Wel, y newyddion calonogol yw bod pob awdurdod wedi rhoi cynnig i mewn am ran o'r gyllideb hon, ac mae rhywfaint wedi'i ddyrannu i bob awdurdod. Ond y gwir plaen amdani yw bod pob rhan o Gymru mewn lle gwahanol yn eu siwrne o ran gallu darparu trochi hwyr. Mae rhai awdurdodau wedi bod yn gwneud hyn am ddegawdau, yn arloesi, ac mae eraill yn dilyn eu hesiampl nhw. Felly, dwi ddim yn credu ei bod hi'n realistig heddiw i ddisgwyl bod y ddarpariaeth yn gyson ym mhob rhan o Gymru, yn anffodus, ond beth hoffwn i weld fel rhan o'r darpariaethau yn y Bil—rŷn ni wedi bod yn ymgynghori ar hyn fel rhan o'r Papur Gwyn gyda Phlaid Cymru, fel mae'r Aelod yn gwybod—yw beth allwn ni wneud i sicrhau, ym mhob awdurdod lleol, fod trochi hwyr ar gael a bod awdurdodau'n hybu'n rhagweithiol fanteision hynny fel bod yr argaeledd yn amlycach i bobl a'r ddarpariaeth yn fwy cyson dros amser.
Well, the encouraging news is that every authority has bid for some of this funding, and a certain amount has been provided to every authority. But the truth is that every part of Wales is in a different place in terms of its journey in providing late immersion. Some authorities have been doing this for decades, and innovating, and others are following their example. So, I don't think it's realistic today to expect provision to be consistent across Wales, but what I would like to see as part of the provisions within the Bill—and we've been consulting on this as part of the White Paper along with Plaid Cymru, as the Member will know—is what we can do to ensure that late immersion is available in all local authorities and that local authorities proactively promote the benefits of that so that the availability is more prominent to people and that the provision is more consistent over time.
Minister, as if with perfect timing, the Chair has just come in from the culture, sport and Welsh language committee, as they've just issued a report on the ability of schools to, obviously, offer the Welsh education that allows the language to flourish in our school settings, and part of that report identifies the ability for teachers to take sabbaticals to build up their Welsh language skills. The figure that is estimated that would be required is in the region of 17,000 teachers across Wales signing up to that sabbatical programme. Is that a figure you recognise? And, if it is a figure the Government recognises, what efforts are you making to promote the ability for teachers to take those training opportunities and ultimately grow the ability for the Welsh language to be received either in English-medium schools, or obviously in Welsh language schools?
Weinidog, fel pe bai wedi amseru hynny'n berffaith, mae'r Cadeirydd newydd ddod i mewn o'r pwyllgor diwylliant, y Gymraeg a chwaraeon, gan eu bod newydd gyhoeddi adroddiad ar allu ysgolion i gynnig addysg Gymraeg sy'n caniatáu i'r iaith ffynnu yn ein lleoliadau ysgol, ac mae rhan o'r adroddiad hwnnw'n nodi'r gallu i athrawon gymryd cyfnod sabothol i feithrin eu sgiliau Cymraeg. Y ffigur yr amcangyfrifir y byddai ei angen yw oddeutu 17,000 o athrawon ledled Cymru i ymuno â'r rhaglen sabothol honno. A yw hwn yn ffigur rydych chi'n ei gydnabod? Ac os yw'n ffigur y mae'r Llywodraeth yn ei gydnabod, pa ymdrechion rydych chi'n eu gwneud i hyrwyddo'r gallu i athrawon fanteisio ar y cyfleoedd hyfforddi hynny ac yn y pen draw, i gynyddu'r gallu i'r Gymraeg gael ei derbyn naill ai mewn ysgolion cyfrwng Saesneg, neu mewn ysgolion Cymraeg wrth gwrs?
Well, the Member makes an important point at the end there that it's not solely about teachers in the Welsh-medium sector; it's also about teachers teaching Welsh in English-medium schools as well. I think we need to be clear that there's a range of need across the system. I don't accept that the only way of making sure we reach that target is through the sabbatical scheme, though I do accept that it's a significant contribution to the progress that we want to make, but it simply won't work in all circumstances, and it certainly isn't the only way of making that progress. Our commitment to the sabbatical scheme is absolutely clear; we've continued the funding for it, and I'll look to do that, obviously, in future years as well. When you go to see—. I've had the opportunity to go and talk to classes of teachers, in primary generally, who have experienced that opportunity not just to learn Welsh and to teach through Welsh, but that kind of approach to pedagogy through the medium of Welsh that they learn. It's absolutely fascinating to see it happening, and it's obviously a very successful way of being able to increase the numbers able to teach Welsh. But, as I say, it's only one of the ways of doing that.
Wel, mae'r Aelod yn gwneud pwynt pwysig ar y diwedd yno nad yw'n ymwneud ag athrawon yn y sector cyfrwng Cymraeg yn unig; mae hefyd yn ymwneud ag athrawon sy'n addysgu Cymraeg mewn ysgolion cyfrwng Saesneg. Rwy'n credu bod angen inni fod yn glir fod amrywiaeth o anghenion ar draws y system. Nid wyf yn derbyn mai'r unig ffordd o sicrhau ein bod yn cyrraedd y targed hwnnw yw drwy'r cynllun sabothol, er fy mod yn derbyn ei fod yn gyfraniad sylweddol i'r cynnydd rydym am ei wneud, ond ni fydd yn gweithio yn yr holl amgylchiadau, ac yn sicr nid dyma'r unig ffordd o wneud y cynnydd hwnnw. Mae ein hymrwymiad i'r cynllun sabothol yn gwbl glir; rydym wedi parhau'r cyllid ar ei gyfer, a byddaf yn ceisio gwneud hynny, yn amlwg, yn y blynyddoedd i ddod hefyd. Pan ewch i weld—. Rwyf wedi cael cyfle i fynd i siarad â dosbarthiadau o athrawon, yn yr ysgolion cynradd yn gyffredinol, sydd wedi profi'r cyfle nid yn unig i ddysgu Cymraeg ac i addysgu drwy'r Gymraeg, ond yr ymagwedd honno tuag at addysgeg drwy gyfrwng y Gymraeg y maent yn ei dysgu. Mae'n hollol ddiddorol ei weld yn digwydd, ac mae'n amlwg yn ffordd lwyddiannus iawn o allu cynyddu'r niferoedd sy'n gallu addysgu'r Gymraeg. Ond fel rwy'n dweud, dim ond un o'r ffyrdd o wneud hynny yw hi.
Mae cwestiwn 6 [OQ59606] wedi'i dynnu'n ôl. Cwestiwn 7, Tom Giffard.
Question 6 [OQ59606] has been withdrawn. Question 7, Tom Giffard.
7. Sut mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn sicrhau bod dysgwyr yn derbyn addysg Gymraeg o safon? OQ59605
7. How does the Welsh Government ensure that learners receive quality Welsh-medium education? OQ59605
Rŷn ni'n gweithio'n agos gydag awdurdodau lleol i'w cefnogi nhw yn gweithredu cynlluniau Cymraeg mewn addysg i sicrhau bod dysgwyr yng Nghymru â mynediad hafal i addysg cyfrwng Cymraeg o safon, ac mae gennym ni gynlluniau ar waith i sicrhau bod hynny'n digwydd.
We work closely with local authorities to support them in the implementation of their Welsh in education strategic plans to ensure that all learners in Wales have access to quality Welsh-medium education, and we have plans in place to ensure that that happens.
Diolch i chi am eich ateb, Gweinidog. Dwi'n gwybod eich bod chi'n cytuno gyda fi am bwysigrwydd addysg cyfrwng Cymraeg dda ym mhob cyfnod o fywyd. Byddwch yn ymwybodol o adroddiad Estyn o fis Tachwedd ar ddysgu oedolion mewn partneriaeth gymunedol yn Abertawe a amlygodd nad yw Cymraeg a diwylliant Cymru wedi'u hymgorffori yn y cwricwlwm yn Abertawe, a bod ychydig iawn o ddysgwyr yn ymarfer, defnyddio neu ddatblygu eu medrau Cymraeg fel rhan o'r ddarpariaeth, ac nad yw'r bartneriaeth yn arfarnu cyfraddau deilliant dysgwyr na chyrchfannau ar ddiwedd y cyfnod astudio. Rwy'n gwybod eich bod chi'n ymwybodol o bwysigrwydd cyrraedd y targed o filiwn o siaradwyr Cymraeg yng Nghymru, ond nid ydym ni'n mynd i gyrraedd y targed hynny oni bai bod hyn yn cael ei gymryd o ddifrif ledled y wlad, a hefyd yn Abertawe. Felly, pa gamau ydych chi wedi'u cymryd o ganlyniad i'r adroddiad hynny i sicrhau bod oedolion a phawb yn gallu siarad Cymraeg yn y ffordd maen nhw'n moyn?
Thank you very much for your response, Minister. I know that you agree with me about the importance of good quality Welsh-medium education at every stage of life, and you'll be aware of the Estyn report from November on teaching adults in a community partnership in Swansea, which highlighted that the Welsh language isn't incorporated in the curriculum in Swansea, that very few learners practise, use or develop their skills through the medium of Welsh as part of the provision there, and that the partnership doesn't evaluate learner outcomes and targets at the end of the study period. I know that you're aware of the importance of reaching the target of a million Welsh speakers in Wales, but we're not going to reach that target unless we take it seriously nationwide, including in Swansea in this instance. So, what steps have you taken as a result of that Estyn report to ensure that adults, and indeed everyone, can speak Welsh in the way that they want to?
Wel, mae'n bwysig i sicrhau bod ysgolion yn cael eu cefnogi gydag adnoddau a darpariaethau i allu diwallu anghenion y cwricwlwm, ac, fel mae'r Aelod yn gwybod, mae pob ysgol nawr sy'n dysgu'r cwricwlwm yn dysgu rhywfaint drwy gyfrwng y Gymraeg, ac mae hynny'n digwydd am y tro cyntaf, felly mae hynny'n galonogol iawn. Beth rŷn ni eisiau ei weld fel rhan o'n cynlluniau—ac mae hyn yn y Papur Gwyn hefyd—yw bod mwy a mwy o gynnydd a mwy a mwy o ddarpariaeth ym mhob ysgol o ran addysg cyfrwng Cymraeg. Felly, mae hynny'n heriol, wrth gwrs, i allu cyflawni hynny, ond mae'n bwysig bod gennym ni'r nod uchelgeisiol hwnnw fel bod gan bob rhan o'r system y nod cyffredin hwnnw i'w wneud. Mae hynny'n cynnwys y rheini sydd â'u swyddogaeth i gefnogi ysgolion, yn cynnwys y consortia, y gwasanaethau gwella safonau ysgolion ac ati. Ac rŷn ni ar fin diwygio rhyw elfennau o sut rŷn ni'n ariannu darpariaeth i wella safonau addysg yn y Gymraeg, felly byddaf i yn gwneud datganiad maes o law ynglŷn â'r cynlluniau newydd rheini.
Well, it's important to ensure that schools are supported with resources and materials to deliver the curriculum, and, as the Member knows, every school that teaches the curriculum now teaches a proportion of their classes through the medium of Welsh, and that's very encouraging. What we want to see as part of our plans—and this is also included in the White Paper—is that there's more and more progress and more and more provision in all schools in terms of Welsh-medium education. It's challenging, of course, to deliver that, but it's important that we have that ambitious aim so that every part of the system has that shared goal. That includes those who have a function in supporting schools, including the consortia and the school improvement services and so on. We are about to reform some elements of how we fund provision in order to improve standards in the Welsh-medium sector, and I will be making a statement in due time on that.
8. Pa gamau y mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn eu cymryd i leihau absenoldeb ysgol? OQ59620
8. What steps is the Welsh Government taking to reduce school absenteeism? OQ59620
We've invested £2.5 million in the education welfare service this year, to enable the service to provide earlier support, before issues escalate, and more intensive support to learners with high absence levels. In addition, draft attendance guidance to support schools and parents to improve learner attendance is out for consultation, as of the start of this week.
Rydym wedi buddsoddi £2.5 miliwn yn y gwasanaeth lles addysg eleni, er mwyn galluogi'r gwasanaeth i ddarparu cymorth cynharach, cyn i faterion waethygu, a chymorth mwy dwys i ddysgwyr â lefelau absenoldeb uchel. Yn ogystal, mae ymgynghoriad ar y gweill ers dechrau'r wythnos hon ar ganllawiau presenoldeb drafft i gefnogi ysgolion a rhieni i wella presenoldeb dysgwyr.
I've spoken to you about it numerous times, and we've heard it in the CYPE committee. Obviously, there's a multitude of reasons why there are such high levels of absenteeism, but one of the contributing factors is the lack of school transport and the cost of school transport. I'm just wondering if you could give a few comments on that, please.
Rwyf wedi siarad â chi sawl gwaith ynglŷn â hyn, ac rydym wedi clywed amdano yn y Pwyllgor Plant, Pobl Ifanc ac Addysg. Yn amlwg, mae nifer o resymau pam fod lefelau mor uchel o absenoldeb, ond un o'r ffactorau sy'n cyfrannu yw diffyg cludiant i'r ysgol a chost cludiant i'r ysgol. Tybed a allech chi wneud ychydig o sylwadau ar hynny, os gwelwch yn dda?
Well, as the Member will know, the Learner Travel Measure (Wales) 2008 provides certain minimum standards for transport requirements, and there is a review of that under way at the moment. The Member will also know about the work the Deputy Minister is doing in relation to bus services, for example, more broadly, which have been, obviously, very challenging and have been very concerning in the context of school transport in particular, and I know that he'll have more to say about that very shortly.
Wel, fel y gŵyr yr Aelod, mae Mesur Teithio gan Ddysgwyr (Cymru) 2008 yn darparu safonau gofynnol penodol ar gyfer gofynion trafnidiaeth, ac mae adolygiad o hynny ar y gweill ar hyn o bryd. Bydd yr Aelod yn gwybod hefyd am y gwaith y mae'r Dirprwy Weinidog yn ei wneud mewn perthynas â gwasanaethau bysiau yn fwy eang, er enghraifft, sydd wedi bod yn heriol iawn, yn amlwg, ac sydd wedi peri cryn bryder yng nghyd-destun cludiant i'r ysgol yn benodol, a gwn y bydd ganddo fwy i'w ddweud am hynny cyn bo hir.
9. Pa drafodaethau mae'r Gweinidog wedi cynnal am gyllid ysgolion yng Nghaerdydd? OQ59613
9. What discussions has the Minister held about school funding in Cardiff? OQ59613
Wel, yn enwedig mewn cyfnod sy'n heriol yn ariannol, mae'n hollbwysig defnyddio pob sianel cyfathrebu ac ymgysylltu yn hyn o beth. Rwy’n trafod yn agos gyda llywodraeth leol ar faterion cyllidebol ac yn cwrdd ag arweinwyr, drwy'r is-grŵp cyllid a grwpiau eraill, fel y bo'n briodol. Rwyf hefyd yn ymweld ag ysgolion er mwyn clywed drosof i fy hun am brofiadau penaethiaid o ran cyllid.
Well, particularly in financially challenging times, it is vital that all communication channels are used and are active. I engage closely with local government on budget issues and I meet leaders, through the finance sub-group and other groups, as appropriate. I also visit schools to listen first-hand to the funding experiences of headteachers.
Diolch, Weinidog. Darllenais i â diddordeb mawr yn ddiweddar am eich ymweliad ag Ysgol Mynydd Bychan a'r gwaith arloesol maen nhw'n ei wneud yna i ddatblygu diddordeb yng ngwleidyddiaeth Cymru fel rhan o'r cwricwlwm newydd. Mae nifer ohonom ni wedi cael cyfle i groesawu Ysgol Mynydd Bychan, ar sawl achlysur, i'r Senedd. Wrth gwrs, un o brif hanfodion sicrhau arfer dda yw cyllideb ddigonol. Yn ôl y sôn, mae tua 50 o ysgolion Caerdydd yn gweithredu bellach ar ddiffyg yn eu cyllideb. Pa gefnogaeth ymarferol ŷch chi'n gallu ei rhoi i sicrhau bod ysgolion yn gwella eu sefyllfa ariannol? Diolch yn fawr.
Thank you, Minister. I read with great interest recently about your visit to Ysgol Mynydd Bychan and the innovative work that they are doing there to develop an interest in Welsh politics as part of the new curriculum. Now, many of us have had an opportunity to welcome Ysgol Mynydd Bychan to the Senedd on a number of occasions. Of course, one of the main issues in terms of securing good practice is sufficient funding. Apparently, around 50 schools in Cardiff are now working at a deficit. What practical support can you provide to ensure that schools improve their financial situations? Thank you.
Mae'r Aelod yn gwybod bod y system sydd gennym ni yng Nghymru yn seiliedig ar y ffaith mai cynghorau lleol sydd yn ariannu ysgolion yn uniongyrchol. Ond, er mwyn darparu'r gefnogaeth ariannol i sicrhau bod hynny'n bosib, wrth gwrs mae Llywodraeth Cymru, llynedd, wedi cynyddu'r gyllideb i gynghorau lleol yn sylweddol, ac roedd hynny'n wir y flwyddyn gynt hefyd. Wrth gwrs, mae'r pwysau ar gyllideb ysgolion a chyllideb cynghorau ac ar gyllideb Llywodraeth Cymru yn hysbys i bawb erbyn hyn. Beth rŷn ni wedi'i wneud fel Llywodraeth yw sicrhau, pan gafwyd arian Barnett yn ddiweddar yn sgil penderfyniadau yn San Steffan—penderfyniadau cwbl annigonol, gyda llaw—gwnaethom ni sicrhau bod yr arian hynny yn mynd yn syth i gynghorau lleol i ddarparu ar gyfer ysgolion.
Beth rwyf wedi gallu ei wneud yn fy nghyllideb i, sydd hefyd yn cael ei defnyddio yn rhannol i ariannu ysgolion, yw sicrhau bod yr elfennau sydd o fewn fy nghyllideb, hynny yw, y PDG a'r arian sydd yn mynd i ysgolion i ddelio ag effeithiau COVID, sydd yn dal yn real yn ein hysgolion ni, naill ai wedi aros ar yr un lefel neu wedi cynyddu. Byddwn i'n hoffi bod gennym ni fel Llywodraeth fwy o gyllideb i allu gwario ar wasanaethau cyhoeddus yn gyffredinol. Yr unig ffordd o wneud hwnna yw sicrhau Llywodraeth wahanol yn San Steffan, sy'n barod i fuddsoddi ar draws y Deyrnas Gyfunol, a bod gennym ni arian, wedyn, i allu buddsoddi ymhellach yn ein hysgolion ni. Ond, yn y cyfamser, rŷn ni'n gwbl ymrwymedig i wneud y penderfyniadau mwyaf blaengar gallwn ni fel Llywodraeth, gyda'r gyllideb honno, ac i wario pob ceiniog gallwn ni ar ein hysgolion ni.
As the Member will know, the system we have in Wales is based on the fact that it's local authorities that fund schools directly. But, to provide the financial support to ensure that that is possible, of course, the Welsh Government, last year, had significantly increased the budget to local authorities, and that was true the previous year too. Of course, the pressure on school budgets and the budgets of councils and the budget of the Welsh Government is well known to everyone by now. What we have done as a Government is ensure that, when a Barnett consequential was received recently, as a result of decisions in Westminster—completely insufficient decisions, I have to say—we ensured that that additional funding went straight to local authorities to provide for schools.
What I have been able to do within my budget, which is also used partly to fund schools, is ensure that the elements that are within my budget, namely the PDG and the funding that goes to schools to deal with the impacts of COVID, which are still very real in our schools, either remained at the same level or has increased. I would like it very much if we as a Government had additional funding to spend on public services in general. The only way to do that is to ensure that we have a different Government in Westminster that is ready to invest across the United Kingdom, and then we will have funding to invest further in our schools. But, in the meantime, we are entirely committed to making the most progressive decisions that we can make as a Government, within that budget that we have, and spend every penny that we can on our schools.
As a birthday present for you, Vikki Howells, I've got to question 10. Question 10. [Laughter.]
Fel anrheg pen-blwydd i chi, Vikki Howells, rwyf wedi cyrraedd cwestiwn 10. Cwestiwn 10. [Chwerthin.]
Diolch, Llywydd.
Diolch, Lywydd.
10. Pa gamau y mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn eu cymryd i hyrwyddo iechyd meddwl a llesiant i fyfyrwyr a staff yn y sector addysg bellach? OQ59589
10. What action is the Welsh Government taking to promote mental health and well-being for students and staff in the further education sector? OQ59589
May I wish the Member a happy birthday as well? Since 2019, over £17 million has been allocated to the further education sector to fund initiatives and projects to support the mental health and well-being of both learners and staff. In 2023-24, a further investment of £4 million will be allocated directly to FE institutions to continue to provide the support they need.
A gaf i ddymuno pen-blwydd hapus i'r Aelod hefyd? Ers 2019, mae dros £17 miliwn wedi'i ddyrannu i'r sector addysg bellach i ariannu cynlluniau a phrosiectau i gefnogi iechyd meddwl a lles dysgwyr a staff. Yn 2023-24, bydd buddsoddiad pellach o £4 miliwn yn cael ei ddyrannu'n uniongyrchol i sefydliadau addysg bellach i barhau i ddarparu'r cymorth sydd ei angen arnynt.
Thank you for your answer, Minister. I know the Welsh Government is planning a communications campaign to raise awareness of the groundbreaking '111 press 2' telephone mental health support service. What discussions have you had with colleagues in Government about developing resources that specifically can target students and staff within the education system, so that they are aware of the immediate one-stop shop service that '111 press 2' provides?
Diolch am eich ateb, Weinidog. Gwn fod Llywodraeth Cymru yn cynllunio ymgyrch gyfathrebu i godi ymwybyddiaeth o'r gwasanaeth cymorth iechyd meddwl dros y ffôn arloesol, '111 Dewis 2'. Pa drafodaethau rydych chi wedi'u cael gyda chyd-Aelodau yn y Llywodraeth ynglŷn â datblygu adnoddau a all dargedu myfyrwyr a staff yn benodol yn y system addysg, fel eu bod yn ymwybodol o'r gwasanaeth siop un stop uniongyrchol y mae '111 Dewis 2' yn ei ddarparu?
That's a really important question. Thank you to Vikki Howells for raising it. I was recently in an FE college in north Wales actually when we made the announcement of the further investment, and it's clear to me that colleges are very creatively looking for new ways constantly to be able to highlight to their learners the availability of support that they themselves are providing, sometimes locally, sometimes on a national basis. The '111 press 2' service is, of course, an all-age service and is available to everyone for urgent mental health support and advice, and this includes students in further and higher education.
So, in answer to the Member's question, my officials will be working with the sector to raise awareness of the service, and importantly, I think, to make sure that there's an integrated approach, so that it's integrated with the full range of support available to students, which includes counselling services in colleges and also specialist projects like SilverCloud and Kooth Student. I think colleges have developed considerable expertise, actually, in tailoring well-being support to the specific needs of their students, and they've worked very collaboratively with each other to produce a very substantial, by this time, body of resources and professional learning for staff as well over the last few years.
Just to say the further education and higher education mental health advisory group, which is chaired by the Deputy Minister for Mental Health and Well-being, is also considering how best to ensure a coherent approach to student well-being support, and that includes communicating the range of support to institutions and to students themselves.
Mae hwnnw'n gwestiwn pwysig iawn. Diolch i Vikki Howells am ei godi. Yn ddiweddar, roeddwn mewn coleg addysg bellach yng ngogledd Cymru pan wnaethom gyhoeddi'r buddsoddiad pellach, ac mae'n amlwg i mi fod colegau'n mynd ati'n gyson ac yn greadigol iawn i chwilio am ffyrdd newydd o dynnu sylw eu dysgwyr at y cymorth y maent yn ei ddarparu, weithiau'n lleol, weithiau'n genedlaethol. Mae'r gwasanaeth '111 Dewis 2', wrth gwrs, yn wasanaeth pob oed, ac mae ar gael i bawb ar gyfer cymorth a chyngor iechyd meddwl brys, ac mae hyn yn cynnwys myfyrwyr mewn addysg bellach ac addysg uwch.
Felly, i ateb cwestiwn yr Aelod, bydd fy swyddogion yn gweithio gyda'r sector i godi ymwybyddiaeth o'r gwasanaeth, ac yn bwysig, i sicrhau y defnyddir dull integredig, fel ei fod wedi'i integreiddio â'r ystod lawn o gymorth sydd ar gael i fyfyrwyr, sy'n cynnwys gwasanaethau cwnsela mewn colegau a phrosiectau arbenigol fel SilverCloud a Kooth Student. Credaf fod colegau wedi datblygu arbenigedd sylweddol yn teilwra cymorth llesiant i anghenion penodol eu myfyrwyr, ac maent wedi gweithio'n gydweithredol iawn â'i gilydd i gynhyrchu corff sylweddol iawn o adnoddau a deunydd dysgu proffesiynol i staff hefyd dros y blynyddoedd diwethaf.
Dylwn ddweud bod y grŵp cynghori ar iechyd meddwl mewn addysg bellach ac addysg uwch, sy'n cael ei gadeirio gan y Dirprwy Weinidog Iechyd Meddwl a Llesiant, hefyd yn ystyried y ffordd orau o sicrhau dull cydlynol o gefnogi lles myfyrwyr, ac mae hynny'n cynnwys cyfathrebu'r ystod o gymorth i sefydliadau ac i'r myfyrwyr eu hunain.
Yn olaf, cwestiwn 11, Sioned Williams.
Finally, question 11, Sioned Williams.
11. Pa gynlluniau sydd gan Lywodraeth Cymru i fynd i’r afael â chost y diwrnod ysgol? OQ59610
11. What plans does the Welsh Government have to tackle the cost of the school day? OQ59610
Mae ein grant hanfodion ysgol wedi gwneud gwahaniaeth mawr i lawer o deuluoedd incwm is ledled Cymru, gan helpu i leihau’r pryder ynghylch prynu gwisg a chyfarpar ysgol. Mae cyllid o £13.6 miliwn wedi ei ddarparu ar gyfer y grant hwn yn 2023-24.
Our school essentials grant has made a big difference to many lower income families across Wales, helping to reduce the worry surrounding the purchase of school uniform and equipment. Funding of £13.6 million has been made available for this grant in 2023-24.
Diolch, Weinidog. Rŷm ni wedi bod yn clywed mwy am brosiectau i ailddefnyddio gwisgoedd ysgol yn ddiweddar. Bu pedwar disgybl o Ysgol Maesteg yn cwrdd â'r Brenin ar ôl ennill gwobr gan y Prince's Trust am eu prosiect yn ailgylchu a chyfnewid gwisgoedd ysgol am ddim. Ond fe wnaeth arolwg a gomisiynwyd gan My Nametags ffeindio bod 1.4 miliwn o eitemau gwisg ysgol gwisgadwy yn cael eu taflu bob blwyddyn, gydag 81 y cant o rieni wastad yn prynu gwisgoedd ysgol newydd sbon, a hanner y rhai a holwyd yn dweud doedden nhw ddim eisiau i'w plant nhw wisgo dillad oedd wedi cael eu gwisgo o'r blaen.
Mae etholwr i mi, Laura Santiago, sy'n is-gadeirydd llywodraethwyr Ysgol Gynradd Gymraeg Trebannws, wedi bod mewn cysylltiad ynglŷn â siop gwisg ysgol ail law y mae hi a'i hysgol yn rhedeg, lle rŷch chi'n gallu prynu eitemau gwisg ysgol ar gyfer rhodd ariannol bach o'ch dewis, a'r holl elw yn mynd nôl i'r ysgol. Mae Laura yn dweud bod y fenter yn fodd o sicrhau nid yn unig bod gwisgoedd ysgol o ansawdd da ar gael i bawb am gost bach, ond mae hefyd yn cael effaith gadarnhaol, wrth gwrs, ar yr amgylchedd. Fodd bynnag, mae'n credu bod angen mwy o gefnogaeth ar gyfer y modd yma o brynu gwisg ysgol er mwyn lleihau costau a gwastraff. O ystyried dyhead y Llywodraeth i leihau costau'r diwrnod ysgol, a fyddech chi'n fodlon ystyried sefydlu ymgyrch genedlaethol i hyrwyddo a normaleiddio siopau gwisg ysgol fel hyn, fel bod rhieni ym mhob rhan o Gymru yn gallu fforddio gwisg ysgol a hefyd leihau gwastraff?
Thank you, Minister. We've been hearing more about projects to reuse school uniforms recently. Four pupils from Maesteg School met the King after winning an award by the Prince's Trust for their project recycling and exchanging school uniforms for free. But the review commissioned by My Nametags found that 1.4 million of items of wearable school uniform are thrown away every year, and that 81 per cent of parents always buy new school uniforms every year, and half of those surveyed said that they don't want their children to wear a uniform that had previously been worn.
A constituent of mine, Laura Santiago, who's vice-chair of governors at Ysgol Gynradd Gymraeg Trebannws, has been in touch about the second-hand school uniform shop that she and her school run, where you can buy items of school uniform and give a small donation of your choice, and all of the profit goes back to the school. Laura says that the initiative is a way to ensure not just that school uniforms of good quality are available to everyone for a small cost, but it has a positive impact, of course, on the environment. However, she feels that more support is needed for this way of buying school uniforms to reduce costs and waste. Bearing in mind the Government's ambition to reduce the cost of the school day, would you be willing to consider establishing a national campaign to promote and normalise school uniform shops like this, so that parents in all parts of Wales can ensure that they can afford a school uniform and reduce waste also?
Wel, mae'r Aelod yn gwneud pwynt pwysig, a llongyfarchiadau i Laura Santiago am y gwaith mae hi'n ei wneud yn ysgol Trebannws. Mae arfer dda iawn yn digwydd mewn llawer iawn o ysgolion yng Nghymru—dyna glywsom ni pan wnaethom ni ymgynghori ar y canllawiau gwisg ysgol yn ddiweddar. Roedd ymateb cryf iawn o blaid sicrhau bod ysgolion yn gwneud mwy a mwy o ran cyfnewidfeydd a siopau gwisgoedd ail law, o ran fforddiadwyedd, ond hefyd, fel mae'r Aelod yn ei ddweud, cynaliadwyedd. Mae hefyd yn gyfle gwych i adlewyrchu ethos yr ysgol. Yn aml iawn y disgyblion sy'n fwyaf brwdfrydig dros fod yn rhan o hyn, ac mae hynny'n beth calonogol iawn, rwy'n credu.
O ran sicrhau bod hyn yn cael ei ledaenu ar draws Cymru, dyna yn union pam rŷn ni wedi newid y canllawiau gwisg ysgol fel ei bod hi nawr yn ofynnol i ysgolion wneud hynny, a byddwn ni'n disgwyl i bob corff llywodraethol edrych ar hynny nawr, a sicrhau eu bod nhw'n dodi trefniadau yn eu lle.
Well, the Member makes an important point, and congratulations to Laura Santiago for the work that she's doing in Trebannws school. There is good practice in many schools in Wales—that's what we heard when we consulted on the school uniform guidance recently. There was a very strong response in terms of ensuring that schools do much more in terms of exchanges and second-hand clothing stores in terms of affordability, but also, as the Member said, sustainability too. It's also an excellent opportunity to reflect the ethos of the school. Very often the pupils are most enthusiastic to be part of this, and that's very encouraging indeed, I think.
In terms of ensuring that this is rolled out across Wales, that's exactly why we have changed the school uniform guidance, so it's now a requirement for schools to do that, and I would expect every governing body to look at that now and to ensure that they put arrangements in place.
Diolch yn fawr i'r Gweinidog.
I thank the Minister.
Does yna ddim cwestiynau amserol heddiw.
No topical questions have been accepted today.
Ond mae yna ddau ddatganiad 90 eiliad, y cyntaf gan Vikki Howells.
But there are two 90-second statements, the first of which is from Vikki Howells.
Diolch, Llywydd. Tyrone O'Sullivan was a giant of the Labour, trade union and co-operative movements. His passion and optimism for our Valleys was palpable. A secretary of the local branch of the National Union of Mineworkers, Tyrone led the workers' buyout of Tower colliery, the last deep pit in Wales. It was the mine in which he had worked all his life, the mine that had claimed the life of his father. When the UK Government closed the pit in 1994, the 239 workers pooled their redundancy and bought Tower. It was the final battle in the history of struggles between south Wales miners and Westminster, a struggle in which Tyrone had played a full part, a battle in which he led the miners to victory—a victory that kept the pit open, employing local people, putting money into the local economy. Indeed, Tower was one of the largest employers in Cynon Valley when it closed 13 years later. Tyrone then fulfilled his dream of placing a zipwire tourist attraction on the site.
It is fair to say that Tyrone dreamed big and achieved big. Sadly, he passed away on 28 May. Like many, I am proud to have worked with Tyrone and to have called him a friend. My sincere condolences are with his wife, Elaine, his family, and thoughts with all the lives of those who he touched and inspired. Rest in peace, Tyrone; we will ensure that your legacy lives on.
Diolch, Lywydd. Roedd Tyrone O'Sullivan yn un o gewri'r mudiad Llafur, yr undebau llafur a'r mudiad cydweithredol. Roedd ei angerdd a'i optimistiaeth dros ein Cymoedd yn amlwg. Pan oedd yn ysgrifennydd cangen leol Undeb Cenedlaethol y Glowyr, arweiniodd Tyrone bryniant pwll glo'r Tower gan y gweithwyr, sef y pwll dwfn olaf yng Nghymru. Dyma'r pwll glo lle bu'n gweithio ar hyd ei oes, y pwll glo a hawliodd fywyd ei dad. Pan gaeodd Llywodraeth y DU y pwll ym 1994, cyfunodd y 239 o weithwyr eu tâl dileu swydd, a phrynu pwll glo'r Tower. Hon oedd y frwydr olaf yn hanes y gwrthdaro rhwng glowyr de Cymru a San Steffan, brwydr y chwaraeodd Tyrone ran lawn ynddi, brwydr lle'r arweiniodd y glowyr i fuddugoliaeth—buddugoliaeth a gadwodd y pwll ar agor, yn cyflogi pobl leol, yn rhoi arian i'r economi leol. Yn wir, roedd pwll glo'r Tower yn un o'r cyflogwyr mwyaf yng Nghwm Cynon pan gaeodd 13 mlynedd yn ddiweddarach. Wedyn, gwireddodd Tyrone ei freuddwyd o agor atyniad weiren wib i dwristiaid ar y safle.
Mae'n deg dweud bod Tyrone wedi breuddwydio'n fawr ac wedi cyflawni llawer. Yn anffodus, bu farw ar 28 Mai. Fel llawer o bobl, rwy'n falch o fod wedi gweithio gyda Tyrone a'i alw'n ffrind. Rwy'n cydymdeimlo'n fawr â'i wraig, Elaine, ei deulu a phawb a gafodd eu cyffwrdd a'u hysbrydoli ganddo. Gorffwys mewn hedd, Tyrone; byddwn yn sicrhau bod dy waddol yn parhau.
Lord John Morris of Aberavon was not only a huge figure in Welsh political life, but also a strong advocate for Wales and its language.
Llywydd, yesterday in your tribute to him you highlighted how his early development in Cardigan moulded both his political views and his strong relationships with the agricultural world in Wales. Following his studies to become a solicitor, he became influential in the establishment of the Farmers Union of Wales, and never forgot the important role that agriculture plays in Welsh life and the Welsh economy. He then moved on into the world of politics, and on 8 October 1959 was elected as MP for my home constituency of Aberavon, and remained our MP for nearly 42 years. As the First Minister stated in his tribute, during that time John served in the Government in the 1960s, 1970s and 1990s, under three different Labour Prime Ministers—Harold Wilson, James Callaghan and Tony Blair.
Neither should we lose sight of his progression in his legal profession to QC, earning great respect amongst his peers. But after leaving the Commons he was made Baron Morris of Aberavon, and continued an active role in the House of Lords until his death this week. Many here will remember his visit to the Senedd and his speech commemorating the first Secretary of State for Wales, Jim Griffiths.
Now, throughout his political career he always believed in the decentralisation of government, stating on more than one occasion that the people in Whitehall didn’t always know what was best for Wales. As Secretary of State for Wales he introduced the first referendum on devolution in the 1970s, but was not deterred when that failed to secure the votes, and continued to work for devolution. He was undoubtedly a founding figure in the establishment of our Welsh Parliament, and we all sit here today as a consequence of that commitment.
Llywydd, on this occasion 90 seconds does not allow me to do justice to the distinguished career and contributions of John Morris to Welsh life, but we’ve all benefited from his beliefs and his actions, and I’m sure all of our thoughts today are with his wife Margaret and his family.
Roedd yr Arglwydd John Morris o Aberafan nid yn unig yn ffigwr enfawr ym mywyd gwleidyddol Cymru, roedd hefyd yn eiriolwr cryf dros Gymru a'i hiaith.
Lywydd, yn eich teyrnged iddo ddoe, fe dynnoch chi sylw at y ffordd y lluniodd ei fagwraeth gynnar yn Aberteifi ei farn wleidyddol a'i berthynas gref â'r byd amaeth yng Nghymru. Yn dilyn ei astudiaethau i ddod yn gyfreithiwr, daeth yn ffigur dylanwadol yn y gwaith o sefydlu Undeb Amaethwyr Cymru, ac nid anghofiodd y rôl bwysig y mae amaethyddiaeth yn ei chwarae ym mywyd Cymru ac economi Cymru. Symudodd ymlaen wedyn i fyd gwleidyddiaeth, ac ar 8 Hydref 1959, cafodd ei ethol yn AS dros fy etholaeth enedigol yn Aberafan, a pharhaodd yn AS i ni am bron i 42 mlynedd. Fel y dywedodd y Prif Weinidog yn ei deyrnged, yn ystod y cyfnod hwnnw, gwasanaethodd John yn y Llywodraeth yn y 1960au, 1970au a'r 1990au, o dan dri Phrif Weinidog Llafur gwahanol—Harold Wilson, James Callaghan a Tony Blair.
Ni ddylem ychwaith golli golwg ar ei gynnydd yn ei broffesiwn cyfreithiol i fod yn Gwnsler y Frenhines, gan ennill cryn barch ymhlith ei gyfoedion. Ond ar ôl gadael Tŷ'r Cyffredin, fe'i gwnaed yn Farwn Morris o Aberafan, a pharhaodd â'i rôl weithredol yn Nhŷ'r Arglwyddi hyd ei farwolaeth yr wythnos hon. Bydd nifer yma yn cofio ei ymweliad â'r Senedd a'i araith i goffáu Ysgrifennydd Gwladol cyntaf Cymru, Jim Griffiths.
Nawr, drwy gydol ei yrfa wleidyddol, roedd bob amser yn credu mewn datganoli llywodraeth, gan nodi ar fwy nag un achlysur nad oedd pobl Whitehall bob amser yn gwybod beth oedd orau i Gymru. Fel Ysgrifennydd Gwladol Cymru, cyflwynodd y refferendwm cyntaf ar ddatganoli yn y 1970au, ond ni chafodd ei ddigalonni pan fethodd hynny sicrhau'r pleidleisiau, a pharhaodd i weithio dros ddatganoli. Heb os, roedd yn ffigwr hollbwysig yn hanes sefydlu Senedd Cymru, ac mae pob un ohonom yn eistedd yma heddiw o ganlyniad i'r ymrwymiad hwnnw.
Lywydd, ar yr achlysur hwn, nid yw 90 eiliad yn caniatáu imi wneud cyfiawnder â gyrfa a chyfraniadau nodedig John Morris i fywyd Cymru, ond mae pob un ohonom wedi elwa o'i gredoau a'i weithredoedd, ac rwy'n siŵr fod ein meddyliau heddiw gyda'i wraig Margaret a'i deulu.
Diolch i chi, John, am bopeth rydych chi wedi'i wneud dros Gymru.
Thank you, John, for everything that you have done for Wales.
Diolch yn fawr am y ddwy deyrnged yna.
Thank you very much for both of those tributes.
Eitem 5 yw'r eitem nesaf. Yr eitem hynny yw'r ddadl ar adroddiad y Pwyllgor Newid Hinsawdd, yr Amgylchedd a Seilwaith ar 'Strategaeth a chynllun gweithredu seilwaith gwefru cerbydau trydan Llywodraeth Cymru'. Dwi'n galw ar Heledd Fychan i wneud y cynnig.
Item 5 is next, a debate on the Climate Change, Environment, and Infrastructure Committee report, 'The Welsh Government’s EV charging infrastructure strategy and action plan'. I call on Heledd Fychan to move the motion.
Cynnig NDM8281 Heledd Fychan
Cynnig bod y Senedd:
Yn nodi adroddiad y Pwyllgor Newid Hinsawdd, yr Amgylchedd a Seilwaith: ‘Strategaeth a chynllun gweithredu seilwaith gwefru cerbydau trydan Llywodraeth Cymru’, a osodwyd ar 28 Mawrth 2023.
Motion NDM8281 Heledd Fychan
To propose that the Senedd:
Notes the Climate Change, Environment, and Infrastructure Committee report: ‘The Welsh Government’s EV charging infrastructure strategy and action plan’, laid on 28 March 2023.
Cynigiwyd y cynnig.
Motion moved.
Diolch, Llywydd, ac mae'n bleser gen i agor y ddadl hon heddiw, yn enwedig a finnau'n Gadeirydd dros dro ar y pwyllgor, ond yn lwcus o fod wedi bod yn rhan o sesiwn dystiolaeth ar y pwnc hwn. Hoffwn ddiolch o galon i'r holl randdeiliaid hynny a gyfrannodd at waith y pwyllgor, yn ogystal ag aelodau’r pwyllgor ac, wrth gwrs, y swyddogion sy'n cynorthwyo ein gwaith ni.
Thank you, Llywydd, and it's a pleasure for me to be able to open this debate today, particularly being an interim Chair of the committee, but I was fortunate to be part of an evidence session on this issue. I would like to thank all those stakeholders who contributed to the committee’s work, as well as the members of the committee and, of course, the officials who support our work.
Mae ein hadroddiad ar strategaeth Llywodraeth Cymru ar gyfer hyrwyddo cerbydau trydan wedi datgelu diffyg cynnydd siomedig, enghreifftiau o dorri addewidion, a diffyg uchelgais, sy'n destun pryder. Rydyn ni’n credu bod angen gweithredu ar frys i ymdrin â'r materion hyn a rhoi Cymru nôl ar y trywydd iawn.
Yn gynharach heddiw, cyhoeddodd y Dirprwy Weinidog y bydd £15 miliwn ar gael i helpu awdurdodau lleol i gynyddu nifer y cyfleusterau gwefru. Wrth gwrs, rydym yn croesawu'r cyhoeddiad hwn. Ond mae problemau yn y maes polisi hwn sy'n mynd y tu hwnt i gyllid. Roedd ein gwaith ni yn canolbwyntio ar strategaeth gwefru cerbydau trydan Llywodraeth Cymru a’r cynllun gweithredu cysylltiedig, a gyhoeddwyd yn 2021. Ac fel pwyllgor, roedden ni’n siomedig bod Llywodraeth Cymru, ddwy flynedd ar ôl cyhoeddi cynllun gweithredu 2021, wedi methu â hyd yn oed dechrau bwrw ymlaen â sawl cam allweddol.
Rwy’n ddiolchgar i’r Dirprwy Weinidog am ei ymateb i’n hadroddiad. Yn ôl ei arfer, mae wedi ymgysylltu â gwaith y pwyllgor yn adeiladol ac yn gadarnhaol. Er fy mod yn siomedig ei fod wedi gwrthod pedwar o'n 21 o argymhellion, dylai amseriad y cyhoeddiad cyllido ychydig oriau yn ôl dawelu unrhyw un sy'n amau effaith bosibl pwyllgorau'r Senedd, a phwysigrwydd gwaith craffu o'r fath.
Mi ddechreuaf drwy sôn am y strategaeth cerbydau trydan ei hun. Mae’r Dirprwy Weinidog yn dweud bod £26 miliwn wedi'i fuddsoddi mewn seilwaith gwefru ar hyd a lled Cymru ers cyhoeddi’r strategaeth, a bod hyn wedi arwain at gynnydd o 1,500, bron, yn nifer y pwyntiau gwefru cyhoeddus sydd ar gael, sef cynnydd o 120 y cant.
Mae'r ymateb hwn yn rhoi'r argraff bod hyn yn arwydd o gynnydd da, ond gwyddom nad yw hynny'n wir. Dim ond yr wythnos hon, yn ei adroddiad damniol, cyfeiriodd adroddiad y UK Climate Change Committee yn benodol at seilwaith gwefru EV, gan ddweud nad yw datblygu seilwaith yn digwydd yn ddigon cyflym i gefnogi'r newid i gerbydau trydan. Mae'n amlwg, felly, nad dim ond ein pwyllgor ni sy'n pryderu am y diffyg cynnydd.
Mae’r strategaeth yn nodi y bydd angen cynyddu nifer y mannau gwefru cyflym i fod rhwng 30,000 a 50,000 erbyn 2030. Hynny yw, bydd angen 10 gwaith mwy o wefrwyr yn ystod y saith mlynedd nesaf. Ond ni chafodd y pwyllgor ei ddarbwyllo y bydd y strategaeth na’r cynllun gweithredu yn gallu sicrhau y bydd hynny’n digwydd.
Y weledigaeth yn y strategaeth yw y bydd pawb sy'n defnyddio ceir a faniau trydan yng Nghymru yn hyderus, erbyn 2025, y bydd seilwaith gwefru cerbydau trydan ar gael iddyn nhw pan fydd arnyn nhw ei angen. Wel, dim ond dwy flynedd sydd ar ôl i gyrraedd y targed hwnnw, a dywedodd nifer o randdeiliaid fod llawer iawn i'w wneud yn ystod y cyfnod byr hwn. Ac er gwaethaf y buddsoddiad a wnaed hyd yma, tynnodd gyrwyr cerbydau trydan sylw at broblemau fel prinder mannau gwefru, gwefrwyr diffygiol, a phrinder gwybodaeth am y gwefrwyr.
Ein hargymhelliad cyntaf oedd y dylai Llywodraeth Cymru ailedrych ar y strategaeth gwefru cerbydau trydan yng ngoleuni’r newid ym mhatrymau’r defnydd o gerbydau trydan a’r twf mewn cerbydau trydan masnachol. Mae’r Gweinidog wedi gwrthod hyn oherwydd ei fod wedi’i argyhoeddi bod y strategaeth yn ddigon hyblyg i adlewyrchu’r newidiadau yn y modd y caiff cerbydau trydan eu defnyddio. Ond Ddirprwy Weinidog, byddwn yn gweld a oedd yn iawn i chi fod mor hyderus â hyn pan fyddwn ni'n cyrraedd dyddiad y targed yn 2025.
Mi symudaf rŵan at y cynllun gweithredu. Dwi'n meddwl ei bod yn deg dweud ein bod wedi ein synnu at y diffyg cynnydd o ran hyn. Mae'r cynllun gweithredu yn cynnwys naw o gamau gweithredu; dwy flynedd yn ddiweddarach, does dim cynnydd amlwg i'w weld yn achos pump ohonyn nhw, ac mae targedau a therfynau amser wedi'u methu yn barod.
Roedden ni wedi ein synnu nad oedd eglurhad dros beidio â chwblhau’r camau hyn. Mewn sawl achos, dywedodd Llywodraeth Cymru ei bod yn ystyried a ddylai fwrw ymlaen â chamau penodol, neu'n ystyried sut y dylai wneud hynny, a hynny fisoedd ar ôl y terfyn amser ar gyfer eu cwblhau. I’r pwyllgor, mae'r diffyg cynnydd yn tanseilio hygrededd y cynllun gweithredu ac yn bwrw amheuaeth ar ymrwymiad Llywodraeth Cymru iddo.
Ac o ystyried y diffyg cynnydd truenus o ran y cynllun gweithredu, un o gyhoeddiadau mwyaf syfrdanol y Dirprwy Weinidog oedd hwnnw’n ymwneud â pharatoi cynllun arall, sef y cynllun cyflawni y tro hwn, yn hytrach na chynllun gweithredu.
Mae’r Dirprwy Weinidog wedi cynnwys fersiwn o’r cynllun cyflawni manwl hwn gyda’i ymateb, ac mae o'n gam mawr ymlaen o ran manylder a’r camau clir y mae angen eu cymryd i fod ag unrhyw obaith o wireddu’r weledigaeth yn y strategaeth cerbydau trydan. Mae’n sicr yn gam i'r cyfeiriad iawn. Ond ar ôl ychydig o flynyddoedd o lusgo traed, a ellid dweud bod y Dirprwy Weinidog felly wedi dod o hyd i’r ail gêr o’r diwedd?
Yn olaf, fe drof at rai argymhellion penodol. Mae’r Dirprwy Weinidog wedi gwrthod argymhelliad 12, sef y dylai Llywodraeth Cymru esbonio pam na chafodd y grŵp cysylltiadau ei sefydlu er iddynt ymrwymo i wneud hynny o dan gam 2 yn y cynllun gweithredu. Drwy beidio ag esbonio, mae’r Llywodraeth yn llwyddo i wneud dim ond un peth, sef tanseilio hygrededd y cynllun gweithredu. Dwi’n amau mai pwysau ar adnoddau a blaenoriaethau ydy’r rheswm, ond, os felly, dylai’r Dirprwy Weinidog ddweud hynny gan nad ydy o’n afresymol i’r pwyllgor ofyn am atebion yn y cyswllt hwn.
Cafodd argymhelliad 17 ei wrthod hefyd. Roedd yn gofyn i Lywodraeth Cymru egluro pam na chafodd gweithgor gweithredwyr mannau gwefru ei sefydlu yn 2021, fel roedd wedi ymrwymo iddo o dan gam 6 yn y cynllun gweithredu. Mae’r Dirprwy Weinidog yn dweud yn ei ymateb fod Llywodraeth Cymru a Trafnidiaeth Cymru wedi cytuno na ddylai’r grŵp gael ei sefydlu nes bod y cynllun cyflawni hwn ar waith. Wel, does dim esgus go iawn am hyn, Ddirprwy Weinidog, oherwydd y Llywodraeth sydd wedi penderfynu ar y camau gweithredu a’r terfynau amser ar gyfer eu cwblhau. Pa ddiben, felly, cael camau gweithredu a therfynau amser mewn cynllun gweithredu os nad oes gennych chi unrhyw fwriad i gadw atyn nhw? Allwch chi o leiaf egluro i’r Senedd pam mae hyn wedi digwydd?
Mi wnaf i gloi'r agoriad i'r ddadl hon gyda hynny o sylwadau. Dwi'n edrych ymlaen i glywed y cyfraniadau eraill ac ymateb y Dirprwy Weinidog. Diolch am y cyfle i wneud hynny heddiw.
Our report on the Welsh Government’s strategy for promoting electric vehicles has revealed a disappointing lack of progress, with examples of broken promises, and a worrying lack of ambition. We believe that urgent action is needed to address these issues and put Wales back on track.
Earlier today, the Deputy Minister announced that £15 million would be made available to help local authorities increase the number of charging facilities. Of course, we welcome this announcement. But there are problems in this policy area that go beyond funding. Our work focused on the Welsh Government’s electrical vehicle strategy and the accompanying action plan, which was published in 2021. As a committee, we were disappointed that, two years on from the publication of the 2021 action plan, the Welsh Government had failed even to start to make progress on several key actions.
I’m grateful to the Deputy Minister for his response to our report. As is customary, he has engaged with the committee's work constructively and positively. And while I am disappointed that he has rejected four of our 21 recommendations, the timing of today’s funding announcement a few hours ago should silence anyone who doubts the potential impact of Senedd committees and the importance of scrutiny of this kind.
I will start by talking about the EV strategy itself. The Deputy Minister points out that £26 million has been invested in charging infrastructure across Wales since the strategy was published, and this has led to an increase of nearly 1,500 in the number of public charging points available, which is an increase of 120 per cent.
This response gives the impression that this is a sign of good progress, but we know that this isn’t the case. Only this week, in its damning report, the UK Climate Change Committee specifically focused on EV charging infrastructure, saying that the development of infrastructure is not happening quickly enough to support the transition to electric vehicles. It's clear, therefore, that it’s not just our committee that is concerned by the lack of progress.
The strategy states that the number of fast chargers needed will need to increase between 30,000 and 50,000 by 2030. That is, we will need a tenfold increase in chargers in the next seven years. But the committee was not convinced that the strategy or action plan will deliver these kinds of numbers.
The vision set out in the strategy is that all users of electric cars and vans in Wales will be confident by 2025 that they can access EV charging infrastructure when and where they need it. Well, we are only two years away from that target date, and several stakeholders pointed out that we have a long way to go in that short time. And despite the investment made to date, EV users and drivers highlighted problems with a lack of charging points, charging points not working, and the lack of information about the chargers.
Our first recommendation was that the Welsh Government should revisit the EV charging strategy in light of the changing patterns of EV usage and the growth of commercial EVs. The Minister has rejected this because he is satisfied that the strategy is sufficiently flexible to reflect changes in usage of EVs. But Deputy Minister, we will see whether you were right in being as confident as this when we reach that deadline in 2025.
I will move now to the action plan. I think that it’s fair to say that we were surprised at the lack of progress here. The action plan contains nine actions; two years on, there has been no discernible progress on five of them, and targets and deadlines have been missed already.
We were surprised that there was no explanation for why the actions were not delivered. In several cases, the Welsh Government said that it was considering whether to progress specific actions and how to do so, months after the deadline for them to be delivered had passed. For the committee, the lack of progress undermines the credibility of the action plan and has called into question the Welsh Government’s commitment to it.
And given the lamentable lack of progress on the action plan, one of the most surprising announcements from the Deputy Minister was about the creation of another plan—the delivery plan this time, rather than an action plan.
The Deputy Minister has provided a version of this detailed delivery plan with his response, and it is a big step forward in terms of the granularity of the plan and the clear steps that need to be taken to stand a chance of realising the vision in the EV strategy. It is certainly a step in the right direction. But after a couple of years of dawdling, is it possible that the Deputy Minister has finally found second gear?
Turning finally to specific recommendations, the Deputy Minister has rejected recommendation 12, that the Welsh Government should explain why it did not establish the connections group, even though this was promised under action 2 of the action plan. By not explaining, the Government succeeds in only one thing, namely undermining the credibility of the action plan. I suspect pressures on resources and priorities is the reason behind this, but if so, the Deputy Minister should come out and say so, as it is not unreasonable for the committee to seek an answer on this issue.
Recommendation 17 was also rejected. It asked the Welsh Government to explain why a charge point operator working group was not set up in 2021, as promised under action 6 of the action plan. The Deputy Minister says in his response that the Welsh Government and Transport for Wales agreed that the group shouldn’t be established until the delivery plan was in place. Well, there's no excuse for this, is there, Deputy Minister, because it's the Welsh Government that has decided on the actions and the deadlines for delivery. What's the point, therefore, of having actions and deadlines in an action plan if you have no intention of adhering to them? Could you at least explain to the Senedd why this has happened?
I'll conclude my opening remarks in this debate with those few comments. I look forward very much to hearing the other contributions and the response of the Deputy Minister. Thank you for the opportunity to do so today.
Daeth y Dirprwy Lywydd (David Rees) i’r Gadair.
The Deputy Presiding Officer (David Rees) took the Chair.
By January 2023, the number of charge points per 100,000 residents installed in Wales was 47, Scotland 69, and London 1,311. Those figures speak for themselves—[Interruption.] Sorry, Minister, but you are failing on this aspect. I'm here to scrutinise and challenge you, so let me finish, please, out of courtesy. You are failing to deliver and inspire a rapid roll-out of EV charging points in Wales. Unsurprisingly, and it was well put across by Heledd Fychan, the committee is concerned that the strategy may fail to achieve its vision that, by 2025, all users of electric cars and vans in Wales will be confident they can access EV charging infrastructure when and where they need it. A plan for one or two 50 kW rapid chargers on the strategic road network every 20 miles is now inadequate.
Olly Craughan, of DPD Group, discussed this strategy's lack of consideration for commercial vehicles. DPD group is decarbonising its fleet quickly, and they have nearly 3,000 EVs across the UK. The need for this strategy to cover commercial use is clear, yet you have rejected recommendation 1 and you just simply indicate that a plan for freight is being developed. Logistics UK have expressed their disappointment, especially as they find that 62 per cent of van operators plan to have decarbonised their van fleets by 2030. So, it would be beneficial to us and businesses operating in Wales if you could provide a date here today for the publication of the plan for freight and indicate what changes you're going to deliver.
Logistics UK have also highlighted that adopting electrical commercial vehicles means expanding depot charging, yet a third of companies interviewed have cited power supply infrastructure as one of their biggest challenges for delivering depot charging. Some operators reported estimated costs from their energy network operator of over £1 million for upgrading their energy supply to enable this charging. So, can you explain, Deputy Minister, how you are going to deliver a fair and equitable approach for funding electricity connections to enable the expansion of depot charging?
The WLGA have highlighted that, whilst equality issues are mentioned in the strategy, they're not really explored in depth. Dr Neil Lewis stated that 40 per cent people do not have off-road parking, which makes it difficult for them to even access charging for their EVs at an affordable rate. In 2020, I urged the Welsh Government to investigate how it could support the conversion of publicly available lamp posts into electric car charging points. It’s used all over the UK; they are using electric car charging points. Three years on, and it is a disgrace that there is only one lamp-post charging unit in the whole of Wales. When considering that London already has at least 7,000, the Labour Government has absolutely no excuse for such a lack of provision here. Clarity on what action you are taking now to address the crisis would be welcome, because as it stands, I am certainly not convinced that you are adhering to your own commitment in response to recommendation 3 that equality and social justice is being taken into account.
I would also like to highlight a very important statement in this report. Five of the nine actions were not delivered according to the timescales in the action plan, yet no explanation is given for why the actions were not delivered on time. The whole lack of progress undermines the credibility of your action plan, and actually calls into question the Welsh Government’s commitment to it at all.
In response to recommendation 6, you actually wrongly dispute the point. Connections group to report in the 2021 financial year: not delivered. Network of charging forecourts across Wales at approximately 20 miles across the SRN by 2025: not delivered. Review of policy and regulations by 2022 and updates made where appropriate to support EV uptake: not delivered. Establishment of a charge-point operator working group in 2021: not delivered.
You’ve rejected recommendation 7 that the Welsh Government should deliver on its commitment to review the KPIs annually, but clarify why.
I will conclude on a positive. I welcome the notes that draft amendments to building regs should be forthcoming and that these will mandate the provision of EV charge points for each new dwelling with an associated car parking space. But, Minister, you have a long, long way to go to actually put words into actions, and I think that we as a Senedd are asking that here today. Diolch.
Erbyn mis Ionawr 2023, nifer y mannau gwefru a osodwyd am bob 100,000 o drigolion yng Nghymru oedd 47, 69 yn Yr Alban, a 1,311 yn Llundain. Mae'r ffigurau hynny'n siarad drostynt eu hunain—[Torri ar draws.] Mae'n ddrwg gennyf, Weinidog, ond rydych yn methu yn hyn o beth. Rwyf yma i graffu arnoch a'ch herio, felly byddwch yn gwrtais a gadewch imi orffen, os gwelwch yn dda. Rydych yn methu cyflawni a sbarduno'r gwaith o gyflwyno mannau gwefru cerbydau trydan yn gyflym yng Nghymru. Fel y nododd Heledd Fychan yn graff, nid yw'n syndod fod y pwyllgor yn pryderu y gallai'r strategaeth fethu cyflawni ei gweledigaeth y bydd holl ddefnyddwyr ceir a faniau trydan yng Nghymru yn hyderus erbyn 2025 y gallant gael mynediad at seilwaith gwefru cerbydau trydan pan fydd ei angen arnynt ac yn y lleoedd y bydd ei angen arnynt. Mae cynllun ar gyfer un neu ddau fan gwefru chwim 50 kW bob 20 milltir ar y rhwydwaith ffyrdd strategol bellach yn annigonol.
Bu Olly Craughan, o grŵp DPD, yn trafod diffyg ystyriaeth y strategaeth i gerbydau masnachol. Mae grŵp DPD yn datgarboneiddio eu fflyd ar fyrder, ac mae ganddynt bron i 3,000 o gerbydau trydan ledled y DU. Mae'n amlwg fod angen i'r strategaeth hon gwmpasu defnydd masnachol, ond rydych wedi gwrthod argymhelliad 1, ac yn nodi'n unig fod cynllun ar gyfer cerbydau cludo nwyddau'n cael ei ddatblygu. Mae Logistics UK wedi mynegi eu siom, yn enwedig gan eu bod wedi canfod bod 62 y cant o weithredwyr faniau'n bwriadu datgarboneiddio eu fflydoedd o faniau erbyn 2030. Felly, byddai'n fuddiol i ni ac i fusnesau sy'n gweithredu yng Nghymru pe gallech roi dyddiad yma heddiw ar gyfer cyhoeddi'r cynllun ar gyfer cerbydau cludo nwyddau a nodi pa newidiadau y byddwch yn eu cyflawni.
Mae Logistics UK hefyd wedi tynnu sylw at y ffaith bod defnyddio cerbydau trydan masnachol yn golygu ehangu cyfleusterau gwefru mewn depos, ac eto, mae traean o'r cwmnïau a gafodd eu cyfweld wedi nodi seilwaith y cyflenwad pŵer fel un o'u heriau mwyaf rhag gallu gwefru mewn depos. Nododd rhai gweithredwyr gostau amcangyfrifedig gan eu gweithredwr rhwydwaith ynni o dros £1 filiwn i uwchraddio eu cyflenwad ynni i alluogi gwefru. Felly, a wnewch chi egluro, Ddirprwy Weinidog, sut ydych chi'n mynd i ddarparu dull teg a chyfartal o ariannu cysylltiadau trydan i alluogi depos i ehangu eu cyfleusterau gwefru?
Mae CLlLC wedi tynnu sylw at y ffaith nad yw materion cydraddoldeb, er eu bod yn cael eu crybwyll yn y strategaeth, yn cael eu harchwilio'n ddigon manwl. Dywedodd Dr Neil Lewis nad oes gan 40 y cant o bobl le i barcio oddi ar y ffordd, sy'n ei gwneud yn anodd iddynt allu gwefru eu cerbydau trydan ar gyfradd fforddiadwy. Yn 2020, pwysais ar Lywodraeth Cymru i ymchwilio i sut y gallai gefnogi'r gwaith o droi polion lamp cyhoeddus yn fannau gwefru ceir trydan. Mae'n digwydd ledled y Deyrnas Unedig; maent yn defnyddio mannau gwefru ceir trydan. Dair blynedd yn ddiweddarach, ac mae'n warthus mai dim ond un uned gwefru polyn lamp a geir yng Nghymru gyfan. O gofio bod o leiaf 7,000 i'w cael yn Llundain eisoes, nid oes gan y Llywodraeth Lafur unrhyw esgus o gwbl dros ddiffyg darpariaeth o'r fath yma. Byddai eglurder ynglŷn â pha gamau rydych yn eu cymryd ar hyn o bryd i fynd i'r afael â'r argyfwng i'w groesawu, oherwydd fel y saif pethau, yn sicr nid wyf i'n argyhoeddedig eich bod yn cadw at eich ymrwymiad eich hun mewn ymateb i argymhelliad 3 fod cydraddoldeb a chyfiawnder cymdeithasol yn cael eu hystyried.
Hoffwn dynnu sylw hefyd at ddatganiad pwysig iawn yn yr adroddiad hwn. Ni chyflawnwyd pump o'r naw cam gweithredu yn ôl yr amserlenni yn y cynllun gweithredu, ond eto, ni roddir esboniad pam na chafodd y camau gweithredu eu cyflawni ar amser. Mae'r diffyg cynnydd yn gyffredinol yn tanseilio hygrededd eich cynllun gweithredu, ac yn codi cwestiwn ynglŷn ag ymrwymiad Llywodraeth Cymru i'r mater.
Mewn ymateb i argymhelliad 6, rydych yn dadlau'r pwynt yn anghywir, mewn gwirionedd. Grŵp cysylltiadau i adrodd ym mlwyddyn ariannol 2021: nis cyflawnwyd. Rhwydwaith o orsafoedd gwefru ledled Cymru bob tua 20 milltir ar draws y rhwydwaith ffyrdd strategol erbyn 2025: nis cyflawnwyd. Adolygu polisi a rheoliadau erbyn 2022 a gwneud diweddariadau lle bo’n briodol, i gefnogi’r defnydd o gerbydau trydan: nis cyflawnwyd. Sefydlu gweithgor gweithredwyr mannau gwefru yn 2021: nis cyflawnwyd.
Rydych wedi gwrthod argymhelliad 7 y dylai Llywodraeth Cymru gyflawni ei hymrwymiad i adolygu’r dangosyddion perfformiad allweddol yn flynyddol, ond eglurwch pam.
Rwyf am gloi ar nodyn cadarnhaol. Rwy'n croesawu'r nodiadau y dylai diwygiadau drafft i reoliadau adeiladu fod ar y ffordd ac y bydd y rhain yn ei gwneud yn orfodol i ddarparu mannau gwefru cerbydau trydan ar gyfer pob annedd newydd sydd â lle parcio cysylltiedig. Ond Weinidog, mae gennych ffordd bell iawn i fynd i droi geiriau'n weithredoedd, a chredaf ein bod ni fel Senedd yn gofyn am hynny yma heddiw. Diolch.
You won’t be surprised to know that I'll take a slightly different tone in this debate, because I absolutely agree with the Welsh Government that the majority of electric vehicle charging infrastructure should be delivered by the private sector. The Welsh Government doesn’t run petrol stations, so why should they run electric charging points? I think this is very much something that is fundamental. The private sector needs to step up to the plate, and there are lots of ways in which—.
Ni fyddwch yn synnu y bydd gennyf safbwynt ychydig yn wahanol yn y ddadl hon, gan fy mod yn cytuno'n llwyr â Llywodraeth Cymru y dylai'r sector preifat ddarparu'r rhan fwyaf o'r seilwaith gwefru cerbydau trydan. Nid yw Llywodraeth Cymru yn rhedeg gorsafoedd petrol, felly pam y dylent redeg mannau gwefru cerbydau trydan? Credaf fod hyn yn rhywbeth sylfaenol iawn. Mae angen i'r sector preifat gamu i'r adwy, ac mae llawer o ffyrdd—.
I’m grateful to you for taking the intervention. I appreciate the point that you make about the private sector needing to step up to the plate. Indeed, it seems that they have in many respects, in order to fill some of the void that the Welsh Government has left. But wouldn’t you agree with me that if the Welsh Government has been given tens of millions of pounds to expand the roll-out of electric vehicle charging points, the paltry number of electric vehicle charging points provided by the Welsh Government is completely and totally unacceptable?
Rwy'n ddiolchgar i chi am dderbyn yr ymyriad. Rwy'n derbyn y pwynt a wnewch fod angen i'r sector preifat gamu i'r adwy. Yn wir, ymddengys eu bod wedi gwneud hynny mewn sawl ffordd, er mwyn llenwi peth o'r bwlch y mae Llywodraeth Cymru wedi'i adael. Ond onid ydych yn cytuno, os yw Llywodraeth Cymru wedi cael degau o filiynau o bunnoedd i gyflwyno mannau gwefru cerbydau trydan, fod y nifer pitw o fannau gwefru cerbydau trydan a ddarperir gan Lywodraeth Cymru yn gwbl annerbyniol?
No, I don’t. I agree that the private sector has installed electric charging points, and they’ve done it for perfectly valid commercial reasons, which is that they want people to visit their site, and therefore they are making it attractive to people who own electric vehicles. Supermarkets, for example, have started putting in electric vehicle charging points. I’m surprised that many of the hotels along some of the electric vehicle charging point deserts—for example, going up the A470—haven’t taken advantage of this opportunity to encourage more drivers to want to stop and eat at their hostelry while they’re charging their vehicle. That seems inexplicable to me, whether you’re a hotel, a pub, or a restaurant, that you haven’t jumped at this opportunity to increase your commercial opportunities. I think that the money that may have come from the UK Government needs to be used on different things, and I support the way the Welsh Government is approaching this.
So, we know from the evidence we took that the strategy to have the aspiration met by 2025, that all electric car and van users can be confident of access to electrical vehicle charging in time, is challenging and it's ambitious but pragmatic. So, I'm hoping that the Welsh Government will be able to elucidate in your response, Deputy Minister, that you think that that ambition is still doable. Because I think it's really important that we endeavour to encourage those who can afford to move to electric vehicles to do so when they're changing their vehicle in the normal manner. Because obviously, all that supports the climate emergency.
I want to focus in my remaining remarks on the more challenging issues around on-street parking in built-up areas, which I know has been identified as one of the two priorities of the electric vehicle charging infrastructure programme. So, at least half my constituents' homes don't have off-street parking. They either have a small garden at the front, or their house goes straight on to the street, with possibly not even enough for a rubbish bin, never mind a car to be parked there. And clearly, we need to avoid the perverse consequence of everybody who's got a front garden then converting it into a hard-standing garden, with all the sustainable drainage consequences that we rehearsed earlier in the climate change questions. So, much of the housing in Cardiff Central is terraced housing, similar to many Valleys properties, where, literally, they have no space big enough. And what I don't want to see is the proliferation of new pillars on pavements, which will be a hazard to people with pushchairs, to people with sight problems.
We need to have an alternative way of looking at this, in the context of the fact that all of us need to be thinking about considering whether or not we really actually need to have a private vehicle, rather than simply hiring a vehicle from a car club, as and when we need to use one. And obviously, in the context of an urban environment like Cardiff, that is a significant and important consideration. So, I want to know what discussions the Welsh Government has had with local authorities like Cardiff on how we can structure our electric vehicle charging points to be much more friendly to people to be able to play in the street, rather than having all these vehicles cluttering it up, and having centralised electric vehicle charging points overnight—maybe in commercial businesses' parking places, where they don't need to use them overnight because they're closed; they could extend it to a club of local community people, to enable them to do that there. It's about using urban spaces effectively, without causing other, perverse consequences. And it seems to me that that is quite a major challenge in the urban environment, and one that is worthy of a good deal more debate.
Nac ydw. Rwy'n cytuno bod y sector preifat wedi gosod mannau gwefru trydan, ac maent wedi gwneud hynny am resymau masnachol cwbl ddilys, sef am eu bod am i bobl ymweld â'u safle, ac felly maent yn eu gwneud yn ddeniadol i bobl sy'n berchen ar gerbydau trydan. Mae archfarchnadoedd, er enghraifft, wedi dechrau gosod mannau gwefru cerbydau trydan. Rwy'n synnu nad yw llawer o'r gwestai ar hyd peth o'r anialwch gwefru cerbydau trydan—ar hyd yr A470 er enghraifft—wedi manteisio ar y cyfle i annog mwy o yrwyr i aros a bwyta yn eu gwestai tra byddant yn gwefru eu cerbyd. Mae hynny'n anesboniadwy i mi, boed yn westy, yn dafarn, neu'n fwyty, nad ydych wedi achub ar y cyfle hwn i gynyddu eich cyfleoedd masnachol. Credaf fod angen defnyddio'r arian a allai fod wedi dod gan Lywodraeth y DU ar wahanol bethau, ac rwy'n cefnogi'r ffordd y mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn gwneud hyn.
Felly, gwyddom o'r dystiolaeth a gawsom fod y strategaeth i gyflawni'r dyhead erbyn 2025, y gall pob defnyddiwr car a fan drydan fod yn hyderus o gael mynediad amserol at fan gwefru cerbyd trydan, yn heriol ac yn uchelgeisiol, ond yn bragmatig. Felly, rwy'n gobeithio y bydd Llywodraeth Cymru yn gallu cadarnhau yn eich ymateb, Ddirprwy Weinidog, eich bod yn credu bod yr uchelgais hwnnw'n dal yn bosibl. Oherwydd credaf ei bod yn bwysig iawn ein bod yn ymdrechu i annog y rheini sy'n gallu fforddio newid i gerbydau trydan wneud hynny pan fyddant yn newid eu cerbyd yn y modd arferol. Oherwydd yn amlwg, mae hynny oll yn cefnogi'r ymdrech i fynd i'r afael â'r argyfwng hinsawdd.
Hoffwn ganolbwyntio yn fy sylwadau sy'n weddill ar y materion mwy heriol sy'n ymwneud â pharcio ar y stryd mewn ardaloedd adeiledig, y gwn ei fod wedi'i nodi fel un o'r ddwy flaenoriaeth yn rhaglen y seilwaith gwefru cerbydau trydan. Felly, nid oes lle i barcio oddi ar y stryd yng nghartrefi o leiaf hanner fy etholwyr. Mae ganddynt ardd fechan o flaen y tŷ, neu mae eu tŷ'n agor allan yn syth i'r stryd, heb ddigon o le i fin sbwriel, o bosibl, heb sôn am barcio car yno. Ac yn amlwg, mae angen inni osgoi canlyniad negyddol lle mae pawb sydd â gardd flaen yn ei phalmantu, gyda'r holl ganlyniadau cysylltiedig o ran draenio cynaliadwy a drafodwyd gennym yn gynharach yn y cwestiynau newid hinsawdd. Felly, mae llawer o'r tai yng Nghanol Caerdydd yn dai teras, yn debyg i lawer o eiddo yn y Cymoedd, lle nad oes ganddynt, yn llythrennol, unrhyw le sy'n ddigon mawr. A'r hyn nad wyf am ei weld yw llwyth o bileri newydd ar balmentydd, a fydd yn beryglus i bobl â phramiau, i bobl â nam ar eu golwg.
Mae angen inni gael ffordd wahanol o edrych ar hyn, yng nghyd-destun y ffaith bod angen i bob un ohonom ystyried a oes gwir angen cerbyd preifat arnom ai peidio, yn hytrach na llogi cerbyd o glwb ceir pan fo angen inni ddefnyddio un. Ac yn amlwg, yng nghyd-destun amgylchedd trefol fel Caerdydd, mae honno'n ystyriaeth sylweddol a phwysig. Felly, hoffwn wybod pa drafodaethau y mae Llywodraeth Cymru wedi'u cael gydag awdurdodau lleol fel Caerdydd ynglŷn â sut y gallwn strwythuro ein mannau gwefru cerbydau trydan i fod yn llawer mwy cyfeillgar i bobl allu chwarae ar y stryd, yn hytrach na chael yr holl gerbydau hyn yn llenwi'r stryd, a chael mannau gwefru cerbydau trydan canolog dros nos—efallai mewn mannau parcio i fusnesau masnachol, lle nad oes angen iddynt eu defnyddio dros nos am eu bod ar gau; gallent eu cynnig i glwb o bobl leol, er mwyn eu galluogi i wneud hynny yno. Mae'n ymwneud â defnyddio mannau trefol yn effeithiol, heb achosi canlyniadau negyddol i eraill. Ac ymddengys i mi fod honno'n her eithaf mawr yn yr amgylchedd trefol, ac yn un sy'n haeddu llawer mwy o drafod arni.
Hoffwn i ddiolch i'r tîm pwyllgor, i'n Cadeirydd, a'n Cadeirydd dros-dro am eu gwaith.
Fel dŷn ni wedi ei glywed yn barod, gyda’r angen i symud tuag at gludiant cynaliadwy yn dod yn bwnc o bwys byd-eang, mae mabwysiadu cerbydau trydan yn gyfle hollbwysig i leihau allyriadau carbon a sicrhau dyfodol gwyrddach. Nawr, dylen ni fod yng Nghymru mewn sefyllfa dda i arwain y ffordd o ran datblygu seilwaith cynhwysfawr o gerbydau trydan, ond, fel dŷn ni wedi ei glywed yn barod, mae'r realiti yn siomedig. Mae adroddiad y pwyllgor yn nodi’r diffygion difrifol o ran yr isadeiledd, fel sydd wedi cael ei grybwyll. Ar hyn o bryd, mae gan Gymru’r nifer isaf o ddyfeisiadau gwefru cyhoeddus a dyfeisiau cyflym neu uwch-gyflym o’r boblogaeth ym Mhrydain Fawr—gwnaf i ddim ailadrodd y ffigurau hynny. Ond mae’n amlwg, wedi dwy flynedd ers cyhoeddiad y cynllun gweithredu ar y pwnc yma yn 2021, tan heddiw, buaswn i wedi dweud, yn sicr, nad oedd cynnydd boddhaol wedi digwydd gan Lywodraeth Cymru ar sawl cam allweddol, ac mae yna dal nifer o bethau sydd angen cael eu gwneud. Mae'r newyddion heddiw am fuddsoddiad pellach o £15 miliwn yn rywbeth positif; mae hynna'n rywbeth, yn sicr, i'w groesawu. Mae angen cynllun clir er mwyn caniatáu bod hyn yn arwain at ganlyniadau clir er mwyn osgoi ailadrodd unrhyw gamgymeriadau sydd wedi digwydd dros y ddwy flynedd ddiwethaf. A dwi'n siŵr bydd pawb yn y Siambr yma yn cytuno bod difrifwch yr argyfwng hinsawdd sydd yn ein wynebu ni nawr yn golygu nad oes gennym ni amser ar gyfer oedi pellach. Er mwyn cychwyn ar y daith hon, mae'n hanfodol bod yna gydweithredu a chyd-gysylltu effeithiol rhwng rhanddeiliaid perthnasol. Mae angen i Lywodraeth Cymru, i awdurdodau lleol, fel dŷn ni wedi clywed, ac asiantaethau trafnidiaeth weithio law yn llaw, gyda'r sector breifat hefyd, i greu is-adeiledd cynhwysfawr, tra bod angen cydweithio agos gyda'r darparwyr egni, er mwyn asesu capasiti perthnasol y grid.
Nawr, fel dŷn ni wedi clywed, mae partneriaid preifat yn mynd i fod yn rhywbeth eithriadol o bwysig yn hyn, megis drwy gynnig—. Ac efallai y dylen ni fod yn meddwl am annog partneriaid cyhoeddus preifat yn sgil hyn trwy gynnig argymhellion ariannol fel grantiau, credydau treth, gan fanteisio ar arbenigedd cyllid ac adnoddau'r ddau sector.
Mae angen hefyd asesu trylwyr ar ofynion y seilwaith gwefru. Rhaid inni ddadansoddi tirwedd a nodi lleoliadau addas ar gyfer gorsafoedd gwefru cerbydau trydan, yn seiliedig ar nifer o ffactorau megis dwysedd poblogaeth, fel mae Jenny newydd fod yn sôn amdano fe, coridorau trafnidiaeth, canolfannau trefol, ardaloedd preswyl, gweithleoedd, canolfannau manwerthu, mannau twristiaeth—mae yna gymaint o ffactorau sydd angen cael eu hystyried. Yn ogystal â hyn, mae'n hollbwysig bod darpariaeth gorsafoedd gwefru cyflym yr un mor amlwg ar draws ardaloedd gwledig ag y maent mewn ardaloedd dinesig. Ar ben hynny, dylai'r gorsafoedd gwefru hyn gael eu gosod mewn llefydd sydd wedi cael eu goleuo'n dda, gan flaenoriaethu hwylustod a diogelwch. Mae hwnna'n rhywbeth hollbwysig.
Rhaid i ni fod yn glir o ran y mathau o orsafoedd gwefru sydd eu hangen, gan ystyried y twf a ragwelir mewn cerbydau trydan yng Nghymru. Dylai hynny gynnwys cymysgedd o ddulliau i godi tâl, megis gorsafoedd codi tâl cyflym, gwefrwyr cyrchfan, a dulliau addas i godi tâl mewn mannau preswyl.
Nawr, dylai'r Llywodraeth gymryd rôl proactif, wrth gwrs, wrth annog defnyddio cerbydau trydan. Ar hyn o bryd, dim ond 0.17 y cant o'r holl gerbydau yng Nghymru sy'n drydanol, ac mae'n dangos pa mor angenrheidiol mae e i weld cynnydd sylweddol. Byddai cyflwyno cymhellion ariannol, eto fel grantiau credydau treth i unigolion, ar gyfer busnesau—. Mae cymaint o bethau sydd angen digwydd ar y cyd, ac mae angen rhoi hwb i'r nod hyn.
Nawr, dwi'n ymwybodol o amser, felly mi wnaf ddweud yn olaf am y cyd-destun o ba mor hollbwysig yw e ein bod ni yn gweithredu ar hyn. Rai wythnosau yn ôl, gwnaeth adroddiad diweddaraf y World Meteorological Organisation danlinellu bod y blaned yn beryglus o agos i gynhesu uwchben y targed o 1.5 gradd Celsius o fewn y degawd presennol. Dydy'r argyfwng hinsawdd ddim yn rhywbeth ar y gorwel bellach; mae yma nawr, ac mae'n effeithio ar ein bywydau gyda phob dydd sydd yn pasio. Felly, mae angen i ni gael system sydd ddim dim ond yn meddwl am y sector trafnidiaeth gyhoeddus—mae hwnna'n rhywbeth sy'n mynd i fod yn hollbwysig—ond gyda'r ffyrdd rydym ni'n byw ein bywydau, rhaid i hyn fod yn rhywbeth hollbwysig. A chyda hynny, Dirprwy Lywydd, mi wnaf i orffen. Diolch.
I'd like to thank the committee team, our Chair, and our interim Chair for their work.
And as we've already heard, with the need to move towards sustainable transport becoming ever more pertinent as a subject worldwide, the adoption of electric vehicles is a vital opportunity to reduce carbon emissions and ensure a greener future. Now, we in Wales should be in a good position to lead the way in developing a comprehensive infrastructure for electric vehicles, but, as we've already heard, the reality is disappointing. The committee report notes the serious deficiencies in terms of the infrastructure, as has been mentioned. At present, Wales has the lowest number of public charging points and fast or superfast chargers of the population in Great Britain—I won't rehearse those figures. But it is clear that, two years since the action plan on this issue was published in 2021, to date, I would say, certainly, that satisfactory progress hadn't been made by the Welsh Government on several key actions, and there are still a number of issues that need to be resolved. Today's news about a further investment of £15 million is very positive; that is certainly something to be welcomed. We need a clear plan to enable this to lead to clear outcomes, to avoid the repetition of mistakes that have taken place over the past two years. I'm sure that everyone in the Siambr today would agree that the seriousness of the climate crisis facing us now means that we have no time to waste. To begin that journey, it is crucial that there is effective collaboration and co-ordination between key stakeholders. The Welsh Government, local authorities, as we've already heard, and transport agencies must work hand in hand, with the private sector too, to create a comprehensive infrastructure, while there is a need for close collaboration with energy providers to assess relevant grid capacity.
Now, as we've heard, private partners are going to be exceptionally important in this, through, for example—. And perhaps we should be thinking about encouraging public/private partnerships as a result of this, for example, through offering financial incentives such as grants and tax credits, thus benefiting from the funding and resources expertise of both sectors.
We also need a thorough assessment of the needs of the charging infrastructure. We must analyse the landscape and identify appropriate locations for electric vehicle charging stations, based on a number of factors, such as population density, as Jenny's just talked about, transport corridors, urban centres, residential areas, workplaces, retail centres, and popular tourist destinations—there are so many factors that need to be considered here. In addition to this, it is vital that fast charging infrastructure is just as prominent in rural areas as it is in urban settings. On top of that, these charging stations should be positioned in areas that have been well lit, thereby prioritising convenience and safety. That is crucial.
We must be clear about the kinds of charging stations that we need, bearing in mind the predicted growth in the number of EVs in Wales. This should include a blend of methods of charging, such as fast charging stations, destination chargers, and appropriate charging methods in residential areas.
Now, the Government should take a proactive role, of course, in encouraging the use of electric vehicles. At present, only 0.17 per cent of all vehicles in Wales are electric. And that shows how vital it is that we see a significant increase. And introducing financial incentives, again, such as tax credit grants for individuals and for businesses—. There are so many things that must be done, and that must be aligned, and we need to give this aim a boost.
Now, I'm aware of time, so I'll say in conclusion how vital it is that we take steps to remedy the situation. A few weeks ago, the most recent report of the World Meteorological Organisation underlined that the planet is dangerously close to a temperature rise above the target of 1.5 degrees Celsius within the current decade. The climate crisis is not something that is beyond the horizon now; it is here now, and it is impacting our lives with every day that passes. So, we do need to have a system that doesn't just think about the public transport sector—that is going to be vital—but in terms of the way we live our lives, this has to be a crucial step that we take. And with those words, I'll conclude. Thank you.
It's a pleasure to take part in this debate, and can I just begin by thanking colleagues on the committee for their work, jointly with all of us, in taking evidence, and also, to those who gave evidence, and to our Chair as well, and to our clerking team and the researchers? And it is a hard-hitting report, but it's been interesting the different approaches to that. Some have used the hard-hitting report to give the Government a good kick and walloping, as you'd probably expect—Janet. [Laughter.] Others have taken it to say 'Well, hold on, let's just look at where the balance of responsibilities lie as well, and who pulls their weight on this'.
Can I just begin my contribution by saying something I don't think has been said today? EV, domestically, is not going to be—. We're focusing on EV points today, but EV cars, EV vehicles, are not going to be the solution for everybody. There are real social justice implications here with the roll-out of EV points, the affordability of EV technology, the sustainability of EV vehicles themselves and the carbon impacts and all of that. But let's put that to one side just for a moment and focus on the EV.
I think the point was well made in the Government's response to the 21 recommendations that we have, of which all but four have been fully accepted. It's a hard-hitting report. I would say that the Government has actually responded well, by and large. I can focus entirely on the four, which I will turn to in a moment, but actually accepting the majority of the recommendations shows, I think, contrary to what we've heard so far by some contributions, that the Government has taken this report very seriously, Llyr, and the impact of this report and the call to Government. But the report also makes clear—. The Government's response to the report makes clear that this has got to be primarily for the private sector to step up to the mark. It's for Government to help build a framework and to help it address market failures. So, in that respect, before I turn to the detail of the recommendations in the report, I do welcome not only the Government's response to the report, but also the announcement, as Delyth was saying, of the £15 million extra into Welsh electric vehicle charging points, and I've looked at the detail of some of this as well.
It's really interesting, because I don't have an EV car, but if I were to get one, most of my travelling, or my wife's, would be back and forth to work on a daily basis, within a 50-mile radius, if that, if we were doing that. But actually, we do take trips all the way to north and south Wales and so on and so forth. It's great to see, within the detail of the announcements that have been made, that there's a substantial investment in central Wales, in west Wales, in north Wales, in those parts that we do need to do this connectivity. What we now need is those private operators and the public authorities and others to make use of this and actually deliver those electric charging points so that nobody has to worry about it anymore.
And there is no direct contrast, by the way, with London and the south east, where these lovely people down there, by and large, are in an ultra-urban environment. Some of them have masses of disposable income and are buying up and are driving the electric vehicles. Well, good luck to them all there. It's not the same, I have to say, as well; we've got to find something that works for Wales, but the investment here within this £15 million is spread right across Wales. I do have a couple of questions on it. I just want to flag my own area for a moment. It's good to see money going into places like Rhondda Cynon Taf and so on. It also talks about money beyond Cardiff in terms of the Cardiff regional zone. I'd be interested to know whether that includes all the local authority areas within that wider Cardiff zone so that it does link up with the Neaths, the Swansea, and then into further parts of Wales and so on.
You also mentioned in your statement, by the way, the private sector taskforce. I welcome that. I would be grateful to hear any further detail on that, because I think that question of the private sector stepping up to the mark, it does need Government intervention to help drive that, but I think pulling them together to say, 'Right, how are we going to do this together?'—a bit like broadband in a sense. 'Where can we help as Government, but where are you going to step up and do this, because you will ultimately benefit?' In so doing, can I just suggest to him that one member of the taskforce you might want to look at is the representative of an indigenous Welsh business that is growing like Topsy, called Clenergy EV, based in my constituency? I think they are third now in terms of growth and leadership globally in terms of software applications so people can join up fleets. The public sector and individuals can join up where they can charge—in hospitals, in private charging facilities, in somebody's home, as well as these independent ones that are setting up.
I'm going to run out of time. There are four recommendations within here that you've rejected, Minister. Two of them, I notice, are timescale ones specifically. It would be helpful to know why the timescale has slipped on those two particular ones. On the first recommendation, recommendation 1, which you've rejected there, it would be good to know, because we have had representations from the commercial sector about what is going to happen with the network for them. So, some response to their concerns that the report didn't go far enough in addressing their concerns, but neither did the Government response; well, how are we going to respond to the commercial, the fleet sector, in driving forward these EV points? Diolch yn fawr iawn, Dirprwy Lywydd.
Mae'n bleser cymryd rhan yn y ddadl hon, ac a gaf fi ddechrau drwy ddiolch i gyd-aelodau ar y pwyllgor am eu gwaith, ar y cyd â phob un ohonom, yn cymryd tystiolaeth, a hefyd, i'r rhai a roddodd dystiolaeth, ac i'n Cadeirydd hefyd, ac i'n tîm clercio a'r ymchwilwyr? Ac mae'n adroddiad deifiol, ond mae wedi bod yn ddiddorol gweld y gwahanol ddulliau o ymdrin â hynny. Mae rhai wedi defnyddio'r adroddiad deifiol i roi cic dda i'r Llywodraeth, fel y byddech yn ei ddisgwyl mae'n debyg—Janet. [Chwerthin.] Mae eraill wedi cymryd ei fod yn dweud 'Wel, arhoswch eiliad, gadewch inni edrych ar ble mae cydbwysedd y cyfrifoldebau hefyd, a phwy sy'n tynnu eu pwysau ar hyn'.
A gaf fi ddechrau fy nghyfraniad drwy ddweud rhywbeth nad wyf yn meddwl ei fod wedi cael ei ddweud heddiw? Nid yw cerbydau trydan, yn ddomestig, yn mynd i fod—. Rydym yn canolbwyntio ar fannau gwefru cerbydau trydan heddiw, ond nid yw ceir trydan, cerbydau trydan yn mynd i fod yn ateb i bawb. Mae goblygiadau cyfiawnder cymdeithasol go iawn yma gyda chyflwyno mannau gwefru cerbydau trydan, fforddiadwyedd technoleg cerbydau trydan, cynaliadwyedd cerbydau trydan eu hunain a'r effeithiau carbon a hynny i gyd. Ond gadewch inni roi hynny ar un ochr am eiliad a chanolbwyntio ar gerbydau trydan.
Rwy'n credu bod y pwynt wedi'i wneud yn dda yn ymateb y Llywodraeth i'r 21 argymhelliad sydd gennym, y derbyniwyd pob un ond pedwar ohonynt yn llawn. Mae'n adroddiad deifiol. Byddwn i'n dweud bod y Llywodraeth wedi ymateb yn dda, ar y cyfan. Gallaf ganolbwyntio'n llwyr ar y pedwar, a byddaf yn troi atynt mewn eiliad, ond mae derbyn mwyafrif yr argymhellion yn dangos, rwy'n credu, yn groes i'r hyn rydym wedi'i glywed hyd yma gan rai o'r cyfranwyr, fod y Llywodraeth o ddifrif ynghylch yr adroddiad hwn, Llyr, ac effaith yr adroddiad hwn a'r alwad ar y Llywodraeth. Ond mae'r adroddiad hefyd yn gwneud yn glir—. Mae ymateb y Llywodraeth i'r adroddiad yn dweud yn glir fod yn rhaid i hyn ymwneud yn bennaf â'r sector preifat yn camu i'r adwy. Mater i'r Llywodraeth yw helpu i adeiladu fframwaith a'i helpu i fynd i'r afael â methiannau'r farchnad. Felly, yn hynny o beth, cyn imi droi at fanylion yr argymhellion yn yr adroddiad, rwy'n croesawu, nid yn unig ymateb y Llywodraeth i'r adroddiad, ond hefyd y cyhoeddiad, fel roedd Delyth yn ei ddweud, o'r £15 miliwn ychwanegol ar gyfer mannau gwefru cerbydau trydan yng Nghymru, ac rwyf wedi edrych ar fanylion peth o hyn hefyd.
Mae'n ddiddorol iawn, oherwydd nid oes gennyf gerbyd trydan, ond pe bawn i'n cael un, byddai'r rhan fwyaf o'r teithiau, neu deithiau fy ngwraig, yn ôl ac ymlaen i'r gwaith o ddydd i ddydd, o fewn cwmpas o 50 milltir, os hynny, pe baem yn gwneud hynny. Ond mewn gwirionedd, rydym yn mynd ar deithiau yr holl ffordd i ogledd a de Cymru ac yn y blaen. Mae'n wych gweld, ym manylion y cyhoeddiadau a wnaed, fod buddsoddiad sylweddol yng nghanolbarth Cymru, yng ngorllewin Cymru, yng ngogledd Cymru, yn y rhannau lle mae angen inni wneud y cysylltedd hwn. Yr hyn sydd ei angen arnom nawr yw gweithredwyr preifat ac awdurdodau cyhoeddus ac eraill i ddefnyddio hyn a darparu'r mannau gwefru trydan fel nad oes raid i neb boeni amdano mwyach.
Ac nid oes cyferbyniad uniongyrchol â Llundain a de ddwyrain Lloegr, gyda llaw, lle mae'r bobl hyfryd i lawr yno, ar y cyfan, mewn amgylchedd hynod drefol. Mae gan rai ohonynt lwyth o incwm gwario ac maent yn prynu ac yn gyrru cerbydau trydan. Pob lwc iddynt. Nid yw'r un peth, mae'n rhaid i mi ddweud; mae'n rhaid inni ddod o hyd i rywbeth sy'n gweithio i Gymru, ond mae'r buddsoddiad yma o fewn y £15 miliwn hwn wedi'i wasgaru ledled Cymru. Mae gennyf gwestiwn neu ddau ar hynny. Hoffwn dynnu sylw at fy ardal fy hun am eiliad. Mae'n dda gweld arian yn mynd i lefydd fel Rhondda Cynon Taf ac yn y blaen. Mae hefyd yn sôn am arian y tu hwnt i Gaerdydd ac ardal ranbarthol Caerdydd. Hoffwn wybod a yw hynny'n cynnwys holl ardaloedd yr awdurdodau lleol yn ardal ehangach Caerdydd fel ei fod yn cysylltu â Chastell-nedd, Abertawe, a rhannau pellach o Gymru ac yn y blaen.
Fe sonioch chi hefyd yn eich datganiad, gyda llaw, am y tasglu sector preifat. Rwy'n croesawu hynny. Byddwn yn falch o glywed unrhyw fanylion pellach am hynny, oherwydd credaf fod y cwestiwn am y sector preifat yn camu i'r adwy yn galw am ymyrraeth y Llywodraeth i helpu i sbarduno hynny, ond rwy'n credu bod eu tynnu at ei gilydd a dweud, 'Iawn, sut y gwnawn ni hyn gyda'n gilydd?'—ychydig fel band eang mewn ffordd. 'Ble gallwn ni helpu fel Llywodraeth, ond ble rydych chi'n mynd i gamu i'r adwy a gwneud hyn, oherwydd fe fyddwch chi'n elwa yn y pen draw?' Wrth wneud hynny, a gaf fi awgrymu mai un aelod o'r tasglu y gallech fod eisiau edrych arno yw cynrychiolydd busnes Cymreig cynhenid sy'n tyfu'n gyflym o'r enw Clenergy EV sydd wedi'i leoli yn fy etholaeth i? Rwy'n credu eu bod bellach yn drydydd o ran twf ac arweinyddiaeth yn fyd-eang gyda chymwysiadau meddalwedd fel y gall pobl gysylltu fflydoedd. Gall y sector cyhoeddus ac unigolion gysylltu lle gallant wefru—mewn ysbytai, mewn cyfleusterau gwefru preifat, yng nghartref rhywun, yn ogystal â'r rhai annibynnol hyn sy'n ymsefydlu.
Rwy'n brin o amser. Mae pedwar argymhelliad yn y fan hon rydych wedi'u gwrthod, Weinidog. Nodaf fod dau ohonynt yn ymwneud yn benodol ag amserlen. Byddai'n ddefnyddiol gwybod pam mae'r amserlen wedi llithro ar y ddau beth hynny. Ar yr argymhelliad cyntaf, argymhelliad 1, a wrthodwyd gennych, byddai'n dda gwybod, oherwydd rydym wedi cael sylwadau gan y sector masnachol am yr hyn sy'n mynd i ddigwydd gyda'r rhwydwaith ar eu cyfer nhw. Felly, ymateb i'w pryderon nad aeth yr adroddiad yn ddigon pell i ateb eu pryderon, ond ni wnaeth ymateb y Llywodraeth ychwaith; wel, sut rydym am ymateb i'r sector masnachol, sector y fflyd, i hyrwyddo'r mannau gwefru cerbydau trydan hyn? Diolch yn fawr iawn, Ddirprwy Lywydd.
It's already been noted that Wales has fewer rapid chargers compared to the rest of the UK, and the lowest number of public charging devices per population in Great Britain. It's probably, therefore, a good job that Rowan Atkinson doesn't live here in Wales, or he might feel even more duped by the electric vehicle revolution.
Deputy Minister, the Federation of Small Business believe the Welsh Government should revisit the EV strategy. They believe that the aim needs to be clearer; there needs to be clear timelines and support for businesses. Like other Members, I'd be interested to see how Welsh Government is co-operating with the private sector in this matter.
I'm pleased that the Welsh Government accepted the recommendation that Ministers should provide an update on the development of the transport decarbonisation programme, which will support the decarbonisation of buses and taxis and private-hire vehicles. Can you indicate what discussions you've had with Cardiff Bus to move to a net-zero fleet?
I also welcome the announcement today of £900,000 over the next two years for Cardiff Council to roll out EV charging and rapid charging infrastructure at Lamby Way for 12 electric refuse collection vehicles. But what about other councils in my region—the Vale of Glamorgan and Rhondda Cynon Taf? What action are they taking?
Across the region, how certain is the Minister that money from Welsh Government will ensure that the right electric charging infrastructure is at strategic sites, such as park-and-ride facilities? And I liked Jenny Rathbone's idea of using large areas that are empty for larger periods of time.
I know that some developers and builders in my region are looking to include heat-source pumps, solar panels and electric charging points in every new-build housing. I welcome that, and I welcome the consultation you've also mentioned this summer about amending the building regulations to mandate EV charge points. Could you provide a timescale for the completion of that consultation, and would you consider legislation to make EV charge points mandatory on new houses?
As Jenny Rathbone mentioned, many houses in my region, including my own, were built well over 100 years ago and do not have a front garden. I've raised this issue with you in the past on behalf of constituents. People living in terraced houses, with difficult lane access, feel the difficulties charging an EV would be far too prohibitive. I saw recently that Octopus Energy currently offer an overnight economy charge of 10p per kWh, plus a standing charge of 52p a day per household. But, in Rhondda Cynon Taf, the proposals for a charge was 35p per kWh when the public charging stations are up and running. It's fair to say that, as Huw Irranca-Davies mentioned, there's a real issue here about discriminating against residents of terraced housing and discouraging the use of EVs by members of the community. We must ensure that there isn't an electric vehicle charging divide because of where people live. Perhaps, Deputy Minister, you could update me on the work that is being done to provide charging points in terraced housing, as has been piloted in Oxfordshire. Diolch yn fawr.
Nodwyd eisoes fod gan Gymru lai o fannau gwefru chwim o'i gymharu â gweddill y DU, a'r nifer isaf o ddyfeisiau gwefru cyhoeddus fesul poblogaeth ym Mhrydain. Mae'n debyg, felly, ei bod hi'n beth da nad yw Rowan Atkinson yn byw yma yng Nghymru, neu efallai y byddai'n teimlo bod y chwyldro cerbydau trydan wedi gwneud cam gwaeth fyth ag ef.
Ddirprwy Weinidog, mae Ffederasiwn y Busnesau Bach yn credu y dylai Llywodraeth Cymru ailedrych ar y strategaeth cerbydau trydan. Maent yn credu bod angen i'r nod fod yn gliriach; mae angen amserlenni clir a chefnogaeth i fusnesau. Fel Aelodau eraill, mae gennyf ddiddordeb mewn gweld sut mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn cydweithio â'r sector preifat ar y mater hwn.
Rwy'n falch fod Llywodraeth Cymru wedi derbyn yr argymhelliad y dylai Gweinidogion roi'r wybodaeth ddiweddaraf am ddatblygiad y rhaglen datgarboneiddio trafnidiaeth, a fydd yn cefnogi datgarboneiddio bysiau a thacsis a cherbydau hurio preifat. A wnewch chi nodi pa drafodaethau a gawsoch gyda Bws Caerdydd i newid i fflyd sero net?
Rwyf hefyd yn croesawu'r cyhoeddiad heddiw o £900,000 dros y ddwy flynedd nesaf i Gyngor Caerdydd i gyflwyno seilwaith gwefru cerbydau trydan a gwefru chwim yn Ffordd Lamby ar gyfer 12 cerbyd trydan casglu sbwriel. Ond beth am gynghorau eraill yn fy rhanbarth i—Bro Morgannwg a Rhondda Cynon Taf? Pa gamau y maent hwy'n eu cymryd?
Ar draws y rhanbarth, pa mor sicr yw'r Gweinidog y bydd arian gan Lywodraeth Cymru yn sicrhau bod y seilwaith gwefru trydan cywir ar gael mewn safleoedd strategol, fel cyfleusterau parcio a theithio? Ac roeddwn yn hoff o syniad Jenny Rathbone o ddefnyddio mannau mawr sy'n wag am gyfnodau hirach.
Rwy'n gwybod bod rhai datblygwyr ac adeiladwyr yn fy rhanbarth yn edrych ar gynnwys pympiau gwres, paneli solar a mannau gwefru trydan ym mhob tŷ a adeiladir o'r newydd. Rwy'n croesawu hynny, ac rwy'n croesawu'r ymgynghoriad rydych chi wedi'i grybwyll yr haf hwn ar ddiwygio'r rheoliadau adeiladu i'w gwneud yn orfodol iddynt gynnwys mannau gwefru cerbydau trydan. A wnewch chi ddarparu amserlen ar gyfer cwblhau'r ymgynghoriad hwnnw, ac a wnewch chi ystyried deddfwriaeth i wneud mannau gwefru cerbydau trydan yn orfodol wrth adeiladu tai newydd?
Fel y soniodd Jenny Rathbone, adeiladwyd llawer o dai yn fy rhanbarth i, gan gynnwys fy un i, ymhell dros 100 mlynedd yn ôl ac nid oes ganddynt ardd flaen. Rwyf wedi codi'r mater gyda chi yn y gorffennol ar ran etholwyr. Mae pobl sy'n byw mewn tai teras, y mae eu mynediad i lonydd yn anodd, yn teimlo y byddai'r anawsterau o wefru cerbyd trydan yn rhy afresymol. Gwelais yn ddiweddar fod Octopus Energy ar hyn o bryd yn cynnig tâl economi dros nos o 10c y kWh, ynghyd â thâl sefydlog o 52c y dydd fesul aelwyd. Ond yn Rhondda Cynon Taf, yr argymhellion ar gyfer tâl oedd 35c y kWh pan fydd y gorsafoedd gwefru cyhoeddus ar waith. Mae'n deg dweud, fel y soniodd Huw Irranca-Davies, fod problem go iawn yma ynghylch gwahaniaethu yn erbyn trigolion tai teras ac anghymell aelodau o'r gymuned rhag defnyddio cerbydau trydan. Mae'n rhaid inni sicrhau nad oes bwlch gwefru cerbydau trydan o ganlyniad i ble mae pobl yn byw. Ddirprwy Weinidog, efallai y gallech roi'r wybodaeth ddiweddaraf i mi am y gwaith sy'n cael ei wneud i ddarparu mannau gwefru ar gyfer tai teras, fel sydd wedi'i dreialu yn swydd Rhydychen. Diolch yn fawr.
Can I just start by thanking the members of the Climate Change, Environment, and Infrastructure Committee for producing this interesting and informative report? Let's hope that this report serves as a wake-up call for the Welsh Government and we finally actually do see some meaningful action, instead of the usual warm words. Time and time again, we hear Ministers in this place claim they're part of the green Government, yet this report does beg to differ. The Welsh Government has got a truly shocking record when it comes to delivering electric vehicle charging points, which many of my colleagues, indeed, from all various platforms here, have indeed been saying so far.
Now, we are going to be seeing more electric vehicles on our roads, like it or lump it, going forward, especially in the light of the UK Government's ban on the sale of petrol and diesel cars. So, it's absolutely imperative that drivers do have access to charging points. In 2021, the Welsh Government published an action plan to increase the uptake of electric vehicles in Wales. How well is that working out? Because I note the committee actually picked up on this fact, that the Government has failed to even start making progress on a number of key actions. One of the Welsh Government's aims is, and I quote, that:
'By 2025, all users of electric cars and vans in Wales are confident that they can access electric vehicle charging infrastructure when and where they need it.'
End quote. I saw the Welsh Government's announcement, as many of you, perhaps, have today, that they're going to be investing £15 million in EV charging, which may sound like a lot of money, which is great and very welcome. However, having done a bit of Googling myself while we were sitting here earlier on, the average charging point costs between £1,000 to £1,500, plus VAT. Now, if you don’t take into account the installation or any of the other charges that could go into connecting it or et cetera, we still hit below 10,000 charging points, and that’s quite laughable in my opinion. It appears that Labour Ministers really are living in cloud-cuckoo-land if they are nowhere near close to hitting that milestone.
A gaf fi ddechrau drwy ddiolch i aelodau'r Pwyllgor Newid Hinsawdd, Amgylchedd a Seilwaith am gynhyrchu'r adroddiad diddorol a llawn gwybodaeth hwn? Gobeithio y bydd yr adroddiad yn canu larymau i Lywodraeth Cymru a'n bod yn gweld gweithredu ystyrlon o'r diwedd, yn hytrach na'r geiriau cynnes arferol. Dro ar ôl tro, fe glywn Weinidogion yn y lle hwn yn honni eu bod yn rhan o'r Llywodraeth werdd, ac eto mae'r adroddiad hwn yn profi fel arall. Mae gan Lywodraeth Cymru record wirioneddol frawychus ar ddarparu mannau gwefru cerbydau trydan, fel mae llawer o fy nghyd-Aelodau o bob platfform gwahanol yma wedi bod yn ei ddweud.
Nawr, hoffi hynny neu beidio, rydym yn mynd i weld mwy o gerbydau trydan ar ein ffyrdd yn y dyfodol, yn enwedig yng ngoleuni gwaharddiad Llywodraeth y DU ar werthu ceir petrol a diesel. Felly, mae'n gwbl hanfodol fod gan yrwyr fynediad at fannau gwefru. Yn 2021, cyhoeddodd Llywodraeth Cymru gynllun gweithredu i gynyddu'r nifer sy'n defnyddio cerbydau trydan yng Nghymru. Pa mor dda y gweithiodd hynny? Oherwydd nodaf fod y pwyllgor wedi mynd ar drywydd y ffaith bod y Llywodraeth wedi methu dechrau gwneud cynnydd ar nifer o gamau allweddol. Un o amcanion Llywodraeth Cymru yw:
'Erbyn 2025, bydd pawb sy’n defnyddio ceir a faniau trydan yng Nghymru yn hyderus y gallant gael at seilwaith gwefru cerbydau trydan ar yr adeg ac yn y man lle y mae arnynt ei angen.'
Fel llawer ohonoch, gwelais gyhoeddiad Llywodraeth Cymru heddiw eu bod yn mynd i fuddsoddi £15 miliwn mewn gwefru cerbydau trydan, a gallai swnio fel llawer o arian, sy'n wych ac i'w groesawu'n fawr. Fodd bynnag, ar ôl mynd ar Google tra oeddem yn eistedd yma yn gynharach, mae man gwefru'n costio rhwng £1,000 a £1,500 a TAW ar gyfartaledd. Nawr, os nad ydych chi'n ystyried gosod neu unrhyw un o'r taliadau eraill a allai fod ynghlwm wrth ei gysylltu ac yn y blaen, rydym yn dal i fod yn sôn am lai na 10,000 o fannau gwefru, ac mae hynny'n eithaf chwerthinllyd yn fy marn i. Mae'n ymddangos bod Gweinidogion Llafur â'u pennau yn y cymylau os nad ydynt yn agos at daro'r garreg filltir honno.
I took one from one of your colleagues.
Fe wnes i dderbyn un gan eich cyd-Aelod.
Go for it, Jenny—go on.
Ewch amdani, Jenny.
I think we have to think differently about this, because vehicles aren't going to be used all of the time, every day of the week. And therefore there's got to be a change of attitude, in sharing electric vehicle charging points so that—. Most people would only ever need to charge once a week, and then you don't need to clutter the environment with too many electric vehicle charging points. And so communities could share the cost of installing electric vehicle charging points at £1,500 between them—that wouldn't be a big deal. If they have a car, they can afford that.
Rwy'n credu bod yn rhaid inni feddwl yn wahanol am hyn, oherwydd nid yw cerbydau'n mynd i gael eu defnyddio trwy'r amser, bob dydd o'r wythnos. Ac felly mae'n rhaid newid agweddau, trwy rannu mannau gwefru cerbydau trydan fel bod—. Dim ond unwaith yr wythnos y byddai angen i'r rhan fwyaf o bobl wefru, ac felly nid oes angen ichi annibennu'r amgylchedd gyda gormod o fannau gwefru cerbydau trydan. Ac felly gallai cymunedau rannu'r gost o £1,500 rhyngddynt i osod man gwefru cerbydau trydan—ni fyddai hynny'n ormod o her. Os oes ganddynt gar, gallant fforddio hynny.
Of course, I understand your point, Jenny, but bearing in mind I have dealt with a lot of people who drive cars for commuting purposes, for hospital appointments, those people who have disabilities, who have a need to be able to drive their cars, even then—. I completely agree with you, we do need to have more charging points, regardless of how that's done. I know my colleague, Darren Millar, raised the question earlier, which wasn't answered as well and was kind of rebuffed, whereby he asked—. Money has been given by the UK Government to the Welsh Government—where has it gone? Where is it going? Why hasn't that been spent on EV charging points? [Interruption.] I just want to finish my point. Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer. According to the Welsh Government's own stats, Wales will need an extra 30,000 to 50,000 fast chargers by 2030. Now, by my calculations that I just mentioned, £15 million won't even hit that figure or even close to it. So, is the Welsh Government confident that it's going to actually even hit that target that it has made? I'd be interested to know what the Welsh Government is going to be doing to urgently improve the provision of EV charging points in Wales, especially in light of this report, because, to me, it looks like Ministers have spent the last few years just sitting on their hands.
I support what the Plaid Member from south-east Wales said earlier, that Ministers must think more innovatively and incentivise a faster roll-out of EV charging points, with a greater focus on expanding provision in rural communities in Wales. Personally, I have no doubt more people would use electric vehicles, but, at the moment, they simply can't because it's not practicable. This needs to change, Deputy Presiding Officer, and it needs to change fast.
Wrth gwrs, rwy'n deall eich pwynt, Jenny, ond o gofio fy mod wedi ymdrin â llawer o bobl sy'n gyrru ceir at ddibenion cymudo, ar gyfer apwyntiadau ysbyty, pobl sydd ag anableddau, sydd angen gallu gyrru eu ceir, hyd yn oed wedyn—. Rwy'n cytuno'n llwyr â chi, mae angen inni gael mwy o fannau gwefru, ni waeth sut y gwneir hynny. Rwy'n gwybod bod fy nghyd-Aelod Darren Millar wedi gofyn y cwestiwn yn gynharach, ac ni chafodd hwnnw ei ateb ychwaith ac fe gafodd ei ddiystyru braidd, lle gofynnodd—. Mae arian wedi cael ei roi gan Lywodraeth y DU i Lywodraeth Cymru—ble mae wedi mynd? I ble mae'n mynd? Pam nad yw hwnnw wedi'i wario ar fannau gwefru cerbydau trydan? [Torri ar draws.] Rwyf eisiau gorffen fy mhwynt. Diolch yn fawr, Ddirprwy Lywydd. Yn ôl ystadegau Llywodraeth Cymru ei hun, bydd angen 30,000 i 50,000 o fannau gwefru chwim ychwanegol ar Gymru erbyn 2030. Nawr, yn ôl fy nghyfrif i, fel y soniais nawr, ni fydd £15 miliwn yn dod yn agos at gyrraedd y ffigur hwnnw. Felly, a yw Llywodraeth Cymru yn hyderus y bydd yn cyrraedd y targed a osododd? Hoffwn wybod beth mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn mynd i'w wneud ar frys i wella'r ddarpariaeth o fannau gwefru cerbydau trydan yng Nghymru, yn enwedig yng ngoleuni'r adroddiad hwn, oherwydd i mi, mae'n ymddangos fel pe bai Gweinidogion wedi treulio'r blynyddoedd diwethaf yn eistedd ar eu dwylo.
Rwy'n cefnogi'r hyn a ddywedodd yr Aelod Plaid Cymru dros dde-ddwyrain Cymru yn gynharach, fod yn rhaid i Weinidogion feddwl yn fwy arloesol a chymell cyflwyno mannau gwefru cerbydau trydan yn gyflymach, gyda mwy o ffocws ar ehangu'r ddarpariaeth mewn cymunedau gwledig yng Nghymru. Yn bersonol, nid oes gennyf unrhyw amheuaeth y byddai mwy o bobl yn defnyddio cerbydau trydan, ond ar hyn o bryd, ni allant wneud hynny am nad yw'n ymarferol. Mae angen i hyn newid, Ddirprwy Lywydd, ac mae angen iddo newid yn gyflym.
A galwaf ar Ddirprwy Weinidog Newid Hinsawdd, Lee Waters.
And I call on the Deputy Minister for Climate Change, Lee Waters.
Diolch yn fawr, Dirprwy Lywydd. And I'd like to thank Members for their contributions and the committee for their work in producing the report. I welcome the challenge and the scrutiny by the committee, both in our oral evidence sessions and in today’s report. And I would welcome them having an ongoing role to hold our feet to the fire. I think it’s a very important function that they provide. And we have accepted the overwhelming majority of the recommendations made by the committee and we are delivering on these.
Myself, I’m a fan of not putting 'accept in principle' when we don’t agree with something, to avoid fudging. I’d much rather say, ‘We don’t agree’ and set out the reasons why. And that’s why, on four of the recommendations, I’ve set out that we do not accept, and I’ll just address those in turn now.
Recommendation 1 asks the Welsh Government to revisit our EV charging strategy. Now, we are confident the strategy, which was developed to take into account a rapid change in technology and usage, remains valid. The principles and the framework remain valid and don’t need revisiting.
Recommendation 7 asks the Welsh Government to commit to review and publish the key performance indicators annually. Instead, we’re planning to review and publish the KPIs at strategic points in time—not to an arbitrary rhythm, but when we are reflecting key stages of the delivery programme and the availability of resources. And comment was made about the impact of resources, and, of course, it is a fact that, when our budgets are being cut and when the number of civil servants we have is held down because of austerity, inevitably there is a limit to what we can do at any one time. And that affects all of our actions. And I would have thought, from the comments from the Plaid Cymru Members, that, having Members in their group who are working closely with the Welsh Government as designated Members, they would know the reality of the operation of the Government and the tight resourcing that is available and the judgments that have to be made. And there’s no point denying the fact that that has had some impact on our ability to deliver this.
But, more than that, I think we have decided to step and pause in our analysis—rather than just spraying money willy-nilly, to look at where the market is planning to serve, to analyse that and to map that, and to look where Government intervention would be best. So, I think, by surveying the landscape first and then ramping up the spending second, that's a much better approach than the approach the committee seems to be chiding us for.
Diolch yn fawr, Ddirprwy Lywydd. A hoffwn ddiolch i'r Aelodau am eu cyfraniadau a'r pwyllgor am eu gwaith yn cynhyrchu'r adroddiad. Rwy'n croesawu'r her a'r craffu gan y pwyllgor, yn ein sesiynau tystiolaeth lafar ac yn yr adroddiad heddiw. A byddwn yn croesawu rôl barhaus iddynt yn ein dwyn i gyfrif. Rwy'n credu eu bod yn darparu swyddogaeth bwysig iawn. Ac rydym wedi derbyn y mwyafrif llethol o'r argymhellion a wnaed gan y pwyllgor ac rydym yn cyflawni'r rhain.
Fy hun, nid wyf yn cefnogi rhoi 'derbyn mewn egwyddor' pan nad ydym yn cytuno â rhywbeth, a hynny er mwyn osgoi bod yn amwys. Byddai'n llawer gwell gennyf ddweud, 'Nid ydym yn cytuno' a nodi'r rhesymau pam. A dyna pam, ar bedwar o'r argymhellion, fy mod wedi nodi nad ydym yn eu derbyn, ac e af i'r afael â'r rhain yn eu tro nawr.
Mae argymhelliad 1 yn gofyn i Lywodraeth Cymru ailedrych ar ein strategaeth gwefru cerbydau trydan. Nawr, rydym yn hyderus fod y strategaeth, a ddatblygwyd i ystyried newid cyflym mewn technoleg a defnydd, yn parhau i fod yn ddilys. Mae'r egwyddorion a'r fframwaith yn parhau'n ddilys ac nid oes angen ailedrych arnynt.
Mae argymhelliad 7 yn gofyn i Lywodraeth Cymru ymrwymo i adolygu a chyhoeddi'r dangosyddion perfformiad allweddol yn flynyddol. Yn hytrach, rydym yn bwriadu adolygu a chyhoeddi'r dangosyddion perfformiad allweddol ar bwyntiau strategol mewn amser—nid i rythm mympwyol, ond pan fyddwn yn ystyried cyfnodau allweddol y rhaglen gyflawni ac argaeledd adnoddau. A gwnaed sylw am effaith adnoddau, ac wrth gwrs, mae'n ffaith, pan fo'n cyllidebau'n cael eu cwtogi a phan fo nifer y gweision sifil sydd gennym yn cael ei gadw'n isel oherwydd cyni, yn anochel mae terfyn ar yr hyn y gallwn ei wneud ar unrhyw adeg. Ac mae hynny'n effeithio ar ein holl weithredoedd. A byddwn wedi meddwl, o sylwadau Aelodau Plaid Cymru, y byddai cael Aelodau yn eu grŵp sy'n gweithio'n agos gyda Llywodraeth Cymru fel Aelodau dynodedig, yn golygu eu bod yn gwybod beth yw realiti gwaith y Llywodraeth a'r adnoddau tynn sydd ar gael a'r penderfyniadau sy'n rhaid eu gwneud. Ac nid oes diben gwadu'r ffaith bod hynny wedi cael rhywfaint o effaith ar ein gallu i gyflawni hyn.
Ond yn fwy na hynny, rwy'n credu ein bod wedi penderfynu camu ac oedi yn ein dadansoddiad—yn hytrach na chwistrellu arian yn ddiwahân, ein bod yn edrych ar ble mae'r farchnad yn cynllunio i wasanaethu, dadansoddi a mapio hynny, ac edrych lle gallai'r Llywodraeth ymyrryd yn y ffordd orau. Felly, trwy arolygu'r dirwedd yn gyntaf a chynyddu'r gwariant wedyn, credaf fod hwnnw'n ddull llawer gwell o weithredu na'r dull y mae'r pwyllgor i'w weld yn ein ceryddu yn ei gylch.
Minister, will you give way on that point?
Weinidog, a wnewch chi ildio ar y pwynt hwnnw?
I'll happily give way to Huw.
Rwy'n hapus i ildio i Huw.
I just wonder whether, with that approach that the Minister is suggesting that he takes, when we come to the work of the taskforce and sitting down with them, is that a point at which he'll be able to explain to the Senedd what those resources allow in strategic points of review of hitting the KPIs would be? I get what you're saying about, 'Pause. Work with the sector'—we've got to demand the private sector step up to the mark on this—but there's got to be a point at which you come back to the Senedd and say, 'We now have got a clearer understanding of when we're going to go for this.'
Gyda'r dull y mae'r Gweinidog yn awgrymu ei fod yn ei gymryd, pan ddown at waith y tasglu a thrafod gyda nhw, rwy'n meddwl tybed ai dyna'r adeg y bydd yn gallu egluro i'r Senedd beth fyddai'r adnoddau hynny'n eu caniatáu mewn pwyntiau adolygu strategol o daro'r dangosyddion perfformiad allweddol? Rwy'n deall yr hyn rydych chi'n ei ddweud am, 'Oedi. Gweithio gyda'r sector'—mae'n rhaid inni fynnu bod y sector preifat yn camu i'r adwy ar hyn—ond mae'n rhaid cael pwynt lle rydych chi'n dod yn ôl i'r Senedd a dweud, 'Mae gennym ddealltwriaeth gliriach nawr o ba bryd rydym yn mynd i fynd am hyn.'
Well, let me come to that. Let me just first address recommendations 12 and 17, which ask the Welsh Government to establish the connections group and the charge point operator working group within weeks. Now, we are in the process of setting up the two groups. However, we believe it's essential that we take time to develop a robust delivery programme before our formal engagement with distribution network operators and charge point operators. So, we're not going to be doing that within weeks, but we will be doing it soon, and that's why I've not accepted those recommendations.
We have learnt a lot from our approach to broadband, and, if you think back to the debates we've had on broadband, we've decided an outside-in approach in broadband. So, rather than looking at where the market will effectively meet demand in its own right, in dense urban conurbations, rather than over-serving those markets by also putting Government funding in, in broadband, we decided to target those areas the market would serve slowest, and that situation has worked well, and I think we should follow that same approach with electric charging points, because, as Huw Irranca and Jenny Rathbone have echoed, this is primarily a role for the private sector, with the Welsh Government intervening where there's market failure or the market is slow to respond. I think that is the best use of public money and it reflects the fact that we don't have the full lever of powers in this area.
Now, the statement the committee made, which has been augmented, I think, in a fairly daft way by some comments in the press and by Members, is that
'Welsh Government had completely failed to deliver many of the Actions in the Action Plan and by the lack of progress towards achieving others.'
Now, I think that is an unfair evaluation of the work and the results that we have completed to date. Now, for this reason, I welcome the opportunity to update Members on the progress that we have made, and we shouldn't lose sight of how complex and expensive this area of work is. Our financial analysis suggests a total capital cost of over £350 million will need to be invested to install sufficient en-route and destination charging by 2040. Now, given the scale of the challenge, as I say, we expect most of this to be delivered by the private sector, and our role is to step in to help that, to remove barriers and to look where we can make targeted help available. So, I've decided to again learn from the experience of the broadband delivery, where the National Infrastructure Commission a few years ago recommended we create a barrier-busting taskforce for broadband to work with the private operators to identify where Government action would be helpful.
So, we're going to do the same with electric charging points; we're going to set a private sector taskforce that will help us engage with the market, bring down any barriers to investment and accelerate the roll-out of charging infrastructure. Now, that may involve financial intervention, but it's just as likely to involve issues around planning or stubbornness of different institutions to respond in a timely manner. So, I think that will be welcomed by the sector as a practical thing we can do to unlock private sector investment, because, as Huw and Jenny mentioned, there is market appetite here on commercial grounds to invest in this, and our job is to lever that into Wales rather than to try to duplicate it.
Now, since the publication of the strategy, we've focused our resources on two key priorities. First, delivering a baseline charging infrastructure across Wales that gives users the confidence that they can travel across our country without fear of running out of charge. Now, Darren Millar asked how we'd spent the money that we've been able to draw down. Between 2020 and 2022, we have delivered £26 million of ULEV, as it's called, funding, to local authorities, to install charging infrastructure across Wales, and this year we've approved a total of £15 million of funding for the roll-out of EV charging infrastructure, and that includes £8.9 million for local authorities. We did an initial trial asking TfW to help us to roll out the infrastructure and concluded that, actually, local authorities were far better placed to play that role, and we have now decided, in a fulsome way, to reflect that in our funding decisions.
So, we have spent the money well and there's infrastructure to show for it. It has proven very complex in some cases and very slow and frustrating. So, in the Rhyl case, in Darren Millar's area, there is a very nice charging plaza, which I have visited, but that was much delayed because of the need to create an extra substation, about access to the grid, soaring construction costs and so on. So, this is not straightforward, but I think we are making some good progress.
And our second focus has been on developing tools and plans that'll help local authorities to accelerate the roll-out of their network. We will complete the installation of 19 rapid charging points at least every 25 miles across Wales and the strategic road network this year—that's two years ahead of the action plan target. It's a major step forward to delivering our vision, and it stands in contrast to what Janet Finch-Saunders said, that the figures speak for themselves. And Natasha Asghar tried to portray this as a truly shocking record. I'm afraid the facts don't confirm those biases.
Jenny Rathbone asked about some reassurance that we wouldn't be cluttering the pavement environment by having charging infrastructure on pavements. I absolutely agree, and that's why the national standards that we're just about to publish make clear that that is not acceptable. And, to make sure that we've got those standards right, I did share it with the secretariat of the cross-party group on active travel, got them to review the document, they've made a number of amendments, which we have accepted, so I hope that addresses—
Wel, gadewch imi ddod at hynny. Gadewch imi fynd i'r afael ag argymhellion 12 a 17 yn gyntaf, sy'n gofyn i Lywodraeth Cymru sefydlu'r grŵp cysylltiadau a'r gweithgor gweithredwyr mannau gwefru o fewn wythnosau. Nawr, rydym wrthi'n sefydlu'r ddau grŵp. Fodd bynnag, credwn ei bod yn hanfodol ein bod yn rhoi amser i ddatblygu rhaglen gyflawni gadarn cyn ein hymgysylltiad ffurfiol â gweithredwyr rhwydweithiau dosbarthu a gweithredwyr mannau gwefru. Felly, nid ydym yn mynd i fod yn gwneud hynny o fewn wythnosau, ond fe fyddwn yn ei wneud yn fuan, a dyna pam nad wyf wedi derbyn yr argymhellion hynny.
Rydym wedi dysgu llawer o'n dull o ymdrin â band eang, ac os ewch yn ôl at y dadleuon a gawsom ar fand eang, rydym wedi penderfynu ar ddull o'r tu allan i mewn ar gyfer band eang. Felly, yn hytrach nag edrych ar ble bydd y farchnad i bob pwrpas yn ateb y galw yn ei hawl ei hun, mewn cytrefi trefol poblog, yn hytrach na gorwasanaethu'r marchnadoedd hynny trwy roi cyllid y Llywodraeth i mewn, i mewn i fand eang, fe wnaethom benderfynu targedu'r ardaloedd y byddai'r farchnad yn eu gwasanaethu arafaf, ac mae'r sefyllfa honno wedi gweithio'n dda, ac rwy'n credu y dylem ddilyn yr un dull o weithredu gyda mannau gwefru trydan, oherwydd, fel y mae Huw Irranca a Jenny Rathbone wedi ategu, rôl i'r sector preifat yw hon yn bennaf, gyda Llywodraeth Cymru yn ymyrryd lle ceir methiant yn y farchnad neu lle mae'r farchnad yn araf i ymateb. Credaf mai dyna'r defnydd gorau o arian cyhoeddus ac mae'n adlewyrchu'r ffaith nad oes gennym yr ystod lawn o bwerau yn y maes hwn.
Nawr, y datganiad a wnaeth y pwyllgor, yr ychwanegwyd ato mewn ffordd braidd yn ffôl gan rai sylwadau yn y wasg a chan Aelodau, yw bod
'Llywodraeth Cymru wedi methu’n llwyr â chyflawni llawer o’r Camau Gweithredu yn y Cynllun Gweithredu a chan y diffyg cynnydd tuag at gyflawni eraill.'
Nawr, rwy'n credu bod hwnnw'n werthusiad annheg o'r gwaith a'r canlyniadau rydym wedi'u cyflawni hyd yma. Nawr, am y rheswm hwn, rwy'n croesawu'r cyfle i roi'r wybodaeth ddiweddaraf i'r Aelodau am y cynnydd a wnaethom, ac ni ddylem golli golwg ar ba mor gymhleth a drud yw'r maes gwaith hwn. Mae ein dadansoddiad ariannol yn awgrymu y bydd angen buddsoddi cyfanswm o dros £350 miliwn o gost gyfalaf i osod digon o fannau gwefru ar lwybrau ac mewn cyrchfannau erbyn 2040. Nawr, o ystyried maint yr her, fel y dywedaf, rydym yn disgwyl i'r rhan fwyaf o hyn gael ei gyflawni gan y sector preifat, a'n rôl ni yw camu i mewn i helpu hynny, i gael gwared ar rwystrau ac edrych ar lle gallwn sicrhau bod cymorth wedi'i dargedu ar gael. Felly, rwyf wedi penderfynu dysgu eto o brofiad darparu'r band eang, lle argymhellodd y Comisiwn Seilwaith Cenedlaethol ychydig flynyddoedd yn ôl ein bod yn creu tasglu i chwalu rhwystrau er mwyn i fand eang weithio gyda'r gweithredwyr preifat i nodi lle byddai'n ddefnyddiol i'r Llywodraeth weithredu.
Felly, rydym yn mynd i wneud yr un peth gyda mannau gwefru trydan; rydym yn mynd i sefydlu tasglu sector preifat a fydd yn ein helpu i ymgysylltu â'r farchnad, chwalu unrhyw rwystrau i fuddsoddiad a chyflymu'r broses o gyflwyno seilwaith gwefru. Nawr, gallai hynny gynnwys ymyrraeth ariannol, ond mae'r un mor debygol o gynnwys materion yn ymwneud â chynllunio neu ystyfnigrwydd gwahanol sefydliadau i ymateb mewn modd amserol. Felly, rwy'n credu y bydd hynny'n cael ei groesawu gan y sector fel rhywbeth ymarferol y gallwn ei wneud i ddatgloi buddsoddiad y sector preifat, oherwydd, fel y soniodd Huw a Jenny, mae yna awydd yn y farchnad ar sail fasnachol i fuddsoddi yn hyn, a'n gwaith ni yw ysgogi hynny yng Nghymru yn hytrach na cheisio ei ddyblygu.
Nawr, ers cyhoeddi'r strategaeth, rydym wedi canolbwyntio ein hadnoddau ar ddwy flaenoriaeth allweddol. Yn gyntaf, darparu seilwaith gwefru sylfaenol ledled Cymru sy'n rhoi hyder i ddefnyddwyr y gallant deithio ar draws ein gwlad heb ofni mynd yn brin o drydan. Nawr, gofynnodd Darren Millar sut roeddem wedi gwario'r arian y gallasom ei dynnu i lawr. Rhwng 2020 a 2022, rydym wedi darparu £26 miliwn o arian cerbydau allyriadau isel iawn, neu ULEV fel y'i gelwir, i awdurdodau lleol, i osod seilwaith gwefru ledled Cymru, ac eleni rydym wedi cymeradwyo cyfanswm o £15 miliwn o gyllid ar gyfer cyflwyno seilwaith gwefru cerbydau trydan, ac mae hynny'n cynnwys £8.9 miliwn ar gyfer awdurdodau lleol. Fe wnaethom dreial cychwynnol yn gofyn i Trafnidiaeth Cymru ein helpu i gyflwyno'r seilwaith a daethom i'r casgliad, mewn gwirionedd, fod awdurdodau lleol mewn sefyllfa well o lawer i chwarae'r rôl honno, ac rydym bellach wedi penderfynu adlewyrchu hynny mewn ffordd hael yn ein penderfyniadau cyllido.
Felly, rydym wedi gwario'r arian yn dda ac mae yna seilwaith i'w ddangos amdano. Mae wedi profi'n gymhleth iawn mewn rhai achosion ac yn araf ac yn rhwystredig iawn. Felly, yn achos y Rhyl, yn ardal Darren Millar, mae yna sgwâr gwefru braf iawn, yr ymwelais ag ef, ond gohiriwyd hynny yn fawr oherwydd yr angen i greu is-orsaf ychwanegol, a mynediad i'r grid, costau adeiladu cynyddol ac yn y blaen. Felly, nid yw hyn yn syml, ond rwy'n credu ein bod yn gwneud cynnydd da.
Ac roedd ein hail ffocws ar ddatblygu offer a chynlluniau a fydd yn helpu awdurdodau lleol i gyflymu'r broses o gyflwyno eu rhwydwaith. Byddwn yn cwblhau'r gwaith o osod 19 man gwefru chwim o leiaf bob 25 milltir ar draws Cymru a'r rhwydwaith ffyrdd strategol eleni—mae hynny ddwy flynedd ar y blaen i darged y cynllun gweithredu. Mae'n gam mawr ymlaen at gyflawni ein gweledigaeth, ac mae'n wahanol iawn i'r hyn a ddywedodd Janet Finch-Saunders, fod y ffigurau'n siarad drostynt eu hunain. Ac fe geisiodd Natasha Asghar ddisgrifio hyn fel record wirioneddol frawychus. Rwy'n ofni nad yw'r ffeithiau'n cadarnhau'r rhagfarnau hynny.
Gofynnodd Jenny Rathbone am sicrwydd na fyddem yn creu annibendod i amgylchedd palmentydd trwy gael seilwaith gwefru ar balmentydd. Rwy'n cytuno'n llwyr, a dyna pam mae'r safonau cenedlaethol rydym ar fin eu cyhoeddi yn ei gwneud yn glir nad yw hynny'n dderbyniol. Ac i wneud yn siŵr fod y safonau hynny'n gywir gennym, fe'u rhannais ag ysgrifenyddiaeth y grŵp trawsbleidiol ar deithio llesol, eu cael nhw i adolygu'r ddogfen, maent wedi gwneud nifer o welliannau, ac rydym wedi'u derbyn, felly rwy'n gobeithio bod hynny'n ateb—
Deputy Minister, you need to conclude now.
Ddirprwy Weinidog, mae angen i chi ddod i ben nawr.
—that concern.
I fear I haven't been able to address all of the points. Let me just simply say to conclude: there is much that has been done. At the moment, we have more than our per-head share of charge points for the number of people in Wales who own electric vehicles, and as that ramps up, as we want it to, so our coverage will ramp up. But it'll ramp up in a strategic way, because we've taken the trouble to do the preparatory work, to do the baseline, to establish private sector relationships and do this in a measured and prudent way. And I really hope the committee keeps an eye on our progress and keeps challenging us and, together, we'll get to the right place. Diolch.
—y pryder hwnnw.
Rwy'n ofni nad wyf wedi gallu mynd i'r afael â'r holl bwyntiau. Gadewch imi ddweud yn syml i gloi: mae llawer wedi'i wneud. Ar hyn o bryd, mae gennym fwy na’n cyfran y pen o fannau gwefru ar gyfer nifer y bobl yng Nghymru sy’n berchen ar gerbydau trydan, ac wrth i hynny gynyddu, fel y dymunwn iddo ei wneud, bydd ein darpariaeth hefyd yn cynyddu. Ond bydd yn cynyddu mewn ffordd strategol, oherwydd rydym wedi mynd i’r drafferth o wneud y gwaith paratoi, o osod y sylfaen, o sefydlu cysylltiadau yn y sector preifat a gwneud hyn mewn ffordd bwyllog a darbodus. Ac rwy'n mawr obeithio y bydd y pwyllgor yn cadw llygad ar ein cynnydd ac yn parhau i'n herio, a chyda'n gilydd, fe gyrhaeddwn y lle iawn. Diolch.
Galwaf ar Heledd Fychan i ymateb i'r ddadl.
I call on Heledd Fychan to reply to the debate.
Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd, a diolch i'r Dirprwy Weinidog am yr ymateb ac i bawb sydd wedi cyfrannu i'r ddadl hon.
Thank you, Dirprwy Lywydd, and thank you to the Deputy Minister for the response and to everyone who has contributed to this debate.
Certainly, the ongoing role is something the committee will certainly welcome, and the committee will be relooking at this during the Senedd term. And, obviously, as I mentioned at the beginning, the fact that we saw that announcement today is proof of the importance of scrutiny.
I was concerned in terms of the Deputy Minister's response in terms of KPIs and so on, and the lack of commitment to a firm date, because, for scrutiny purposes, it is useful for us to know when those are expected, so that we are able to monitor progress, so I would not personally accept that point.
I think Huw Irranca made the very, very important point in terms of social justice, because, obviously, for a number of our constituents, they don't even own cars, let alone electric vehicles. That's not going to be affordable, hence why there's been such an emphasis, in previous debates, on public transport and so on. So, I do take your point there, and it is very well made.
And in terms of the infrastructure, which was mentioned by many, many Members—Jenny, Delyth and Rhys ab Owen—in terms of the challenges with terraced housing, for instance. There are huge, huge challenges, and, Jenny, you were right to mention in terms of those trip hazards for those—. Already, pavement parking can be a huge challenge; if you put more trip hazards, then for more elderly, vulnerable people, those who have a visual impairment, it is a huge challenge, and we see those in many, many communities currently, where people are trying to make that switch.
But the reality at the moment is that many people who are making that switch are finding it difficult with the infrastructure that's in place, of not having the security that they will be able to get from north to south Wales, et cetera, on those journeys. We heard of many people not certain that they would make it to Eisteddfod yr Urdd in Llanymddyfri last week with electric vehicles. So, there is a challenge there about making sure that the infrastructure, even when it's in place, is working, which is something we also heard as evidence through this work.
Delyth, you mentioned the importance of safety—
Yn bendant, mae’r rôl barhaus yn rhywbeth y bydd y pwyllgor yn sicr yn ei groesawu, a bydd y pwyllgor yn edrych eto ar hyn yn ystod tymor y Senedd. Ac yn amlwg, fel y soniais ar y dechrau, mae’r ffaith inni weld y cyhoeddiad heddiw yn brawf o bwysigrwydd craffu.
Roeddwn yn bryderus ynglŷn ag ymateb y Dirprwy Weinidog ar ddangosyddion perfformiad allweddol ac yn y blaen, a’r diffyg ymrwymiad i ddyddiad pendant, oherwydd, at ddibenion craffu, mae’n ddefnyddiol inni wybod pryd y disgwylir y rheini, fel ein bod yn gallu monitro cynnydd, felly ni fyddwn yn derbyn y pwynt hwnnw, yn bersonol.
Rwy’n meddwl bod Huw Irranca wedi gwneud pwynt pwysig iawn ynglŷn â chyfiawnder cymdeithasol, oherwydd, yn amlwg, i nifer o’n hetholwyr, nid ydynt hyd yn oed yn berchen ar geir, heb sôn am gerbydau trydan. Nid yw hynny'n mynd i fod yn fforddiadwy, a dyna pam y bu cymaint o bwyslais mewn dadleuon blaenorol ar drafnidiaeth gyhoeddus ac yn y blaen. Felly, rwy'n derbyn eich pwynt ar hynny, ac mae wedi'i wneud yn dda iawn.
Ac o ran y seilwaith, a grybwyllwyd gan lawer o Aelodau—Jenny, Delyth a Rhys ab Owen—o ran yr heriau gyda thai teras, er enghraifft. Mae yna heriau enfawr, a Jenny, roeddech yn llygad eich lle wrth sôn am beryglon baglu—. Eisoes, gall parcio ar balmentydd fod yn her enfawr; os crëwch fwy o beryglon baglu, yna i'r henoed, pobl sy'n agored i niwed, y rhai sydd â nam ar eu golwg, mae'n her enfawr, a gwelwn y rheini mewn llawer iawn o gymunedau ar hyn o bryd, lle mae pobl yn ceisio gwneud y newid hwnnw.
Ond y gwir amdani ar hyn o bryd yw bod llawer o’r bobl sy’n gwneud y newid yn ei chael hi’n anodd gyda’r seilwaith sydd yno, o beidio â chael y sicrwydd y byddant yn gallu mynd o ogledd i dde Cymru ac ati, ar y teithiau hynny. Clywsom am lawer o bobl yn ansicr y byddent yn cyrraedd Eisteddfod yr Urdd yn Llanymddyfri yr wythnos diwethaf gyda cherbydau trydan. Felly, mae her yno i wneud yn siŵr fod y seilwaith, hyd yn oed pan fydd yn bodoli, yn gweithio, sy’n rhywbeth a glywsom hefyd fel tystiolaeth drwy’r gwaith hwn.
Delyth, fe sonioch chi am bwysigrwydd diogelwch—
—bod diogelwch yn eithriadol o bwysig hefyd, oherwydd mae nifer o'r gofodau cyhoeddus hyn efallai heb eu goleuo'n dda. Ac yn sicr, mae'n rhaid i ni fod yn gwneud hyn yn ddiogel i bawb os ydyn ni'n mynd o ran hynny.
—that safety is so vitally important too, because many of these public sites aren't well lit. And certainly, we must be ensuring that this is safe for everyone if we're going down this route.
Both Natasha and Janet mentioned some of the barriers at present and some of the challenges, and I thank you for your contributions as well.
Soniodd Natasha a Janet am rai o’r rhwystrau ar hyn o bryd a rhai o’r heriau, a diolch i chi am eich cyfraniadau hefyd.
Ond yn sicr, mi hoffwn i fod yn cydnabod bod gan y sector preifat, wrth gwrs, ran allweddol o ran y gwaith o osod mannau gwefru, ac mae hynny yn glir yn yr adroddiad. Ond rhaid i Lywodraeth Cymru beidio ag esgeuluso ei rôl arweinyddol bwysig ychwaith o ran hyn. Mae angen gwella'r perfformiad, ac mae nifer o randdeiliaid allweddol yn teimlo eu bod yn cael eu gadael yn y niwl, ac maen nhw'n aros yn eiddgar am unrhyw arwydd o gynnydd pendant. Ac fel roeddwn i'n sôn wrth ddechrau hyn, mae'r UK Climate Change Committee yn ei adroddiad cynnydd wedi dweud bod angen cyflymiad pendant ac arwyddocaol os yw Llywodraeth Cymru am gyrraedd y targedau erbyn 2025—targedau'r Llywodraeth ei hun.
Mi oeddwn i'n siomedig o glywed y Dirprwy Weinidog yn sôn am y cytundeb cydweithio oherwydd adroddiad pwyllgor ydy hwn, a chyfrannu fel aelodau trawsbleidiol o bwyllgor oeddem ni. Ac mae hwn yn adroddiad sydd yn sôn am ac yn craffu o ran targedau'r Llywodraeth ei hun. Mi ydw i'n gwerthfawrogi eich bod chi wedi amlinellu'r gwaith pwysig fydd gan y pwyllgor o barhau i gydweithio a chraffu ar y maes hwn. Mae o o ddiddordeb mawr i'n hetholwyr ni ac mae o'n bwysig o ran ein hymateb ni i'r argyfwng hinsawdd.
Hoffwn orffen hefyd drwy ddiolch i Llyr Gruffydd am ei rôl o fel Cadeirydd y pwyllgor tra roedd yr adroddiad hwn yn mynd rhagddo. Yn amlwg, dwi'n siŵr byddai Llyr efo lot fawr o bethau i'w dweud pe byddai wedi cyfrannu heddiw, ond diolch yn fawr iawn i bawb sydd wedi cyfrannu, ac mi fyddwn ni'n derbyn eich her chi, Weinidog, i barhau i graffu a pharhau i wthio'r Llywodraeth ar y mater hwn.
But certainly, I would want to acknowledge that the private sector does have a key role in terms of providing charging points, and that's clear in the report. But the Welsh Government must not neglect its important leadership role here either. We need to improve performance in this area, and many key stakeholders do feel that they're being left in the dark, and they're waiting eagerly for any sign of definite progress. And as I mentioned in opening this debate, the UK Climate Change Committee in its progress report has stated that we need a significant and definite increase in speed if the Welsh Government is to reach its targets by 2025. Those are the Government's own targets.
I was disappointed to hear the Deputy Minister talking about the co-operation agreement because this is a committee report, and we are contributing as cross-party members of a committee. And this is a report that scrutinises the Government's own targets. I do appreciate that you have outlined the important work that the committee will have in continuing to collaborate and to scrutinise in this area. It is of great interest to our constituents and it's important in terms of our response to the climate emergency.
I would like to conclude by thanking Llyr Gruffydd for his role as Chair of the committee whilst this report was being developed. I'm sure Llyr would have a great deal to say had he contributed to the debate today, but thank you to everyone who has contributed, and we will accept your challenge, Minister, to continue to scrutinise and continue to push the Government on this issue.
Y cwestiwn yw: a ddylid nodi adroddiad y pwyllgor? A oes unrhyw Aelod yn gwrthwynebu? Nac oes, felly derbynnir y cynnig yn unol â Rheol Sefydlog 12.36.
The proposal is to note the committee's report. Does any Member object? No, therefore the motion is agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.
Derbyniwyd y cynnig yn unol â Rheol Sefydlog 12.36.
Motion agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.
Detholwyd y gwelliant canlynol: gwelliant 1 yn enw Lesley Griffiths.
The following amendment has been selected: amendment 1 in the name of Lesley Griffiths.
Eitem 6 yw dadl gyntaf y Ceidwadwyr Cymreig y prynhawn yma: arferion cyfrifyddu ym Mwrdd Iechyd Prifysgol Betsi Cadwaladr, a galwaf ar Gareth Davies i wneud y cynnig.
Item 6 is the first Welsh Conservatives debate this afternoon on accounting practices at Betsi Cadwaladr University Health Board, and I call on Gareth Davies to move the motion.
Cynnig NDM8282 Darren Millar
Cynnig bod y Senedd:
1. Yn credu y dylid cyhoeddi adroddiad fforensig Ernst & Young o faterion cyfrifeg ym Mwrdd Iechyd Prifysgol Betsi Cadwaladr yn llawn ac y dylai fod yn y parth cyhoeddus.
2. Yn galw ar Fwrdd Iechyd Prifysgol Betsi Cadwaladr i gyhoeddi adroddiad Ernst & Young.
3. Yn gofyn, o ystyried canfyddiadau Ernst & Young, fod adolygiad ehangach ac annibynnol yn cael ei ystyried i roi sicrwydd:
a) nad yw'r arferion a nodwyd ym Mwrdd Iechyd Prifysgol Betsi Cadwaladr yn digwydd mewn sefydliadau GIG eraill yng Nghymru; a
b) nad oedd arferion tebyg wedi effeithio ar flynyddoedd ariannol cyn y rhai a adolygwyd gan Ernst & Young.
Motion NDM8282 Darren Millar
To propose that the Senedd:
1. Believes that the Ernst & Young forensic report of accounting issues at Betsi Cadwaladr University Health Board should be published in full and be in the public domain.
2. Calls upon Betsi Cadwaladr University Health Board to publish the Ernst & Young report.
3. Requests, given the findings in the Ernst & Young report, that a wider and independent review be undertaken to provide assurances that:
a) the practices identified at the Betsi Cadwaladr University Health Board are not happening in other NHS organisations in Wales; and
b) financial years prior to those reviewed by Ernst & Young were not affected by similar practices.
Cynigiwyd y cynnig.
Motion moved.
Diolch yn fawr iawn, Deputy Llywydd, and I'm pleased to open this debate this afternoon and move the motion tabled in the name of my colleague Darren Millar. But we're here again, aren't we? Here again in this Senedd Chamber, highlighting another failure and another scandal surrounding Betsi Cadwaladr University Health Board. Only recently, we stood in this Chamber discussing the return to special measures, the damning report into vascular services, and quite often speak about the Welsh Government's failure to reduce waiting times at Glan Clwyd Hospital's A&E department, safe discharges, and the failure to build north Denbighshire community hospital in Rhyl, and, of course, reducing waiting times for patients across north Wales.
But, in addition to this, we seem to have entered into a whole new ball game of learning of the alleged widescale fraud on behalf of the most senior personnel the board employs. But how did we learn this? Were we addressed with a statement from the Welsh Government on this very Senedd floor to where you were elected? No, of course we weren't. We had to learn of the news through the leaking of the Ernst & Young report to the press, and we're yet to see the full publication of the report and the detailing of the accounting failures that have been alleged to have occurred.
Now, let's put a bit of perspective to this. The people who are alleged to have committed fraudulent behaviour are some of the highest paid people in the land, with the chief executive role being £250,000 per year and the finance director earning a cool £150,000 per year. All right if you're lucky enough, isn't it? But these individuals earn more than the First Minister and even the Prime Minister, and their primary role and function is to be the custodians and guardians of the public purse, and to make shrewd and calculated decisions in the best interests of taxpayers. Well, 'What happened there?', I ask.
What myself and the Welsh Conservatives want to get to the bottom of is how long has the Welsh Government known about this, why wasn't action taken at the time, why was there a failure to bring a statement to this Senedd Chamber from the health Minister informing Members of the news, as most of us only found out from an article by Guy Adams of the Daily Mail. It's hardly a fantastic advert for the Welsh Government's view of democracy on behalf of the people of north Wales, as you don't seem to enjoy discussing the issues that most people of north Wales are anxious about. Because the people from that area are anxious about the overall performance of the health board, and its chronic failures over the past decade or so.
This is people's lives at the end of the day, and what the people of north Wales need are competent individuals who take their needs seriously. And, I'm afraid, the latest scandal is just further evidence that the health board and the Labour Government have failed the people of north Wales. What would Aneurin Bevan or even Betsi Cadwaladr herself be thinking if they could see all of this happening?
I've kept my remarks quite short with the time of the debate, but I conclude my comments to urge the Welsh Government and Betsi Cadwaladr to publish the entirety of the Ernst & Young report to the people of north Wales, so that we can see the extent of what has happened here, so that we can start to repair the damage and bring back the integrity and public assurance of the health board, if there, indeed, is a shred of that left. I urge Members to support our motion unamended tonight. Thank you.
Diolch yn fawr iawn, Ddirprwy Lywydd, ac rwy’n falch o agor y ddadl hon y prynhawn yma a gwneud y cynnig a gyflwynwyd yn enw fy nghyd-Aelod Darren Millar. Ond rydym yma eto, onid ydym? Yma yn Siambr y Senedd hon eto, yn tynnu sylw at fethiant arall a sgandal arall yn ymwneud â Bwrdd Iechyd Prifysgol Betsi Cadwaladr. Fe wnaethom godi yn y Siambr hon yn ddiweddar i drafod dychwelyd at fesurau arbennig, yr adroddiad damniol ar wasanaethau fasgwlaidd, ac yn aml, rydym yn trafod methiant Llywodraeth Cymru i leihau amseroedd aros yn adran damweiniau ac achosion brys Ysbyty Glan Clwyd, rhyddhau cleifion o'r ysbyty yn ddiogel, a’r methiant i adeiladu ysbyty cymunedol gogledd sir Ddinbych yn y Rhyl, a lleihau amseroedd aros i gleifion ar draws gogledd Cymru wrth gwrs.
Ond yn ogystal â hyn, mae'n ymddangos ein bod wedi mynd i dir newydd eto wrth ddysgu am y twyll eang honedig ar ran y personél uchaf y mae'r bwrdd yn eu cyflogi. Ond sut y gwnaethom ddysgu am hyn? A gawsom ddatganiad gan Lywodraeth Cymru ar lawr y Senedd hon y cawsoch eich ethol iddi? Na, wrth gwrs na chawsom. Bu'n rhaid inni gael gwybod am y newyddion ar ôl i adroddiad Ernst & Young gael ei ddatgelu'n answyddogol i'r wasg, ac nid ydym eto wedi gweld yr adroddiad yn cael ei gyhoeddi'n llawn a manylion y methiannau cyfrifyddu yr honnir iddynt ddigwydd.
Nawr, gadewch inni roi ychydig o bersbectif i hyn. Y bobl yr honnir eu bod wedi cyflawni ymddygiad twyllodrus yw rhai o’r bobl sy’n cael y cyflogau uchaf yn y wlad, gyda chyflog y prif weithredwr yn £250,000 y flwyddyn a’r cyfarwyddwr cyllid yn ennill £150,000 y flwyddyn. Mae’n iawn os ydych chi'n ddigon ffodus, onid yw? Ond mae’r unigolion hyn yn ennill mwy na Phrif Weinidog Cymru, a Phrif Weinidog y DU hyd yn oed, a’u prif rôl a’u swyddogaeth yw bod yn geidwaid a gwarcheidwaid y pwrs cyhoeddus, a gwneud penderfyniadau craff a phwyllog er lles gorau trethdalwyr. Wel, 'Beth ddigwyddodd gyda hynny?', gofynnaf.
Rwyf i a’r Ceidwadwyr Cymreig am wybod ers pryd y mae Llywodraeth Cymru wedi gwybod am hyn, pam na roddwyd camau ar waith ar y pryd, pam na chafwyd datganiad i Siambr y Senedd hon gan y Gweinidog iechyd yn hysbysu’r Aelodau o’r newyddion, gan mai drwy erthygl gan Guy Adams yn y Daily Mail y cafodd y rhan fwyaf ohonom wybod am hyn. Go brin fod hynny'n hysbyseb wych i safbwynt Llywodraeth Cymru ar ddemocratiaeth ar ran pobl gogledd Cymru, gan nad yw’n ymddangos eich bod yn mwynhau trafod y materion y mae’r rhan fwyaf o bobl gogledd Cymru yn bryderus yn eu cylch. Oherwydd mae’r bobl yn yr ardal honno’n bryderus am berfformiad cyffredinol y bwrdd iechyd, a’i fethiannau parhaus dros y degawd diwethaf.
Bywydau pobl yw hyn yn y bôn, a’r hyn sydd ei angen ar bobl gogledd Cymru yw unigolion cymwys sydd o ddifrif ynglŷn â'u hanghenion. Ac mae arnaf ofn fod y sgandal ddiweddaraf yn dystiolaeth bellach fod y bwrdd iechyd a’r Llywodraeth Lafur wedi gwneud cam â phobl gogledd Cymru. Beth fyddai Aneurin Bevan neu hyd yn oed Betsi Cadwaladr ei hun yn ei feddwl pe gallent weld hyn i gyd yn digwydd?
Rwyf wedi cadw fy sylwadau yn eithaf byr oherwydd amser y ddadl, ond terfynaf fy sylwadau drwy annog Llywodraeth Cymru a Betsi Cadwaladr i gyhoeddi adroddiad Ernst & Young yn ei gyfanrwydd i bobl gogledd Cymru, fel y gallwn weld hyd a lled yr hyn sydd wedi digwydd yma, fel y gallwn ddechrau unioni’r difrod ac adfer uniondeb y bwrdd iechyd a hyder y cyhoedd ynddo, os oes unrhyw ran ohono ar ôl i'w adfer. Rwy'n annog yr Aelodau i gefnogi ein cynnig heb ei ddiwygio heno. Diolch.
Rwyf wedi dethol y gwelliant i'r cynnig. Galwaf ar y Gweinidog Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol i gynnig yn ffurfiol welliant 1, a gyflwynwyd yn enw Lesley Griffiths.
I have selected the amendment to the motion, and I call on the Minister for Health and Social Services to move formally amendment 1, tabled in the name of Lesley Griffiths.
Gwelliant 1—Lesley Griffiths
Dileu popeth a rhoi yn ei le:
Cynnig bod y Senedd:
1. Yn cydnabod y diddordeb sylweddol yn adroddiad fforensig Ernst & Young o faterion cyfrifyddu ym Mwrdd Iechyd Prifysgol Betsi Cadwaladr ac yn nodi galwadau i’w gyhoeddi.
2. Yn nodi bod Bwrdd Iechyd Prifysgol Betsi Cadwaladr yn mynd i’r afael â’r materion a godwyd yn adroddiad Ernst & Young yn unol â gweithdrefnau a pholisïau presennol a’i fod yn ceisio cyngor cyfreithiol ynglŷn â’i gyhoeddi.
3. Yn nodi rôl Archwilio Cymru yn rhoi sicrwydd ar reoli arian cyhoeddus a bwriad Llywodraeth Cymru i gynnal ymarfer dysgu gwersi a rhannu’r canfyddiadau ymysg sefydliadau’r GIG.
Amendment 1—Lesley Griffiths
Delete all and replace with:
To propose that the Senedd:
1. Recognises the significant interest in the Ernst & Young forensic report of accounting issues at Betsi Cadwaladr University Health Board and notes calls for it to be published.
2. Notes that Betsi Cadwaladr University Health Board is progressing the management of the issues raised in the Ernst & Young report in line with existing procedures and policies and is seeking legal advice re its publication.
3. Notes the role of Audit Wales in providing assurance on the management of public money and the WG intention to undertake a lessons learnt exercise and disseminate its findings across NHS organisations.
Cynigiwyd gwelliant 1.
Amendment 1 moved.
Yn ffurfiol.
Formally.
It's déjà vu, isn't it? And it saddens me immensely that here we are again, talking about an issue of utmost seriousness in relation to Betsi Cadwaladr University Health Board. It's eight years—eight years—since it went into special measures first. Eight years in which we have witnessed a catalogue of scandals. Each one undermining trust, each one undermining staff morale. And this Ernst & Young report that we are discussing today, in so many ways, sums up the story of Betsi. I see it very much as a microcosm of the health board's failures.
It's a report that highlights deep mismanagement. It's a report that highlights financial impropriety. It's a report that highlights a lack of transparency. It's a report that highlights an inadequate response by Welsh Government, and its failure to provide the transparency by giving us officially a copy of that report is a part of that. It's another example of the finger of blame being pointed at the wrong people. Remember, this is a report that was commissioned by the independent members of the board, who wanted to put things right and wanted to shine a light on what was going on in Betsi Cadwaladr. Yet, it was they who were effectively sacked and forced out before this report made the light of day. This report is based on financial matters. The inadequacies that shine through it are very similar, aren't they, to the problems that we have seen in mental health provision, in vascular services, in countless reports that have highlighted serious failings in the leadership of the health board.
We've certainly lost faith in Welsh Government's ability to manage Betsi Cadwaladr, and remember this is a Government that directly runs, effectively, through special measures, Betsi Cadwaladr University Health Board. And it's the taking of responsibility that is so, so crucially important. As I said earlier, I note in the Conservatives motion today they're calling for the report to be released in its entirety. Absolutely, we need to see that happen. When Adam highlighted the contents here, it was something that shook even further the faith that people had in what was going on in trying to remedy issues at Betsi Cadwaladr.
I will keep on harping on about the need to restructure Betsi, not because I want restructuring—goodness me, we'd like to avoid that—but it's not working, is it, currently? And, again, I'm calling on Welsh Government to put a plan in place. Put a plan B in place. But here we have a report that we have to see out in the open. I want to see a full police investigation into it, and we need to be on a path towards better health services in the north, because we're not there yet.
Mae'n achos o déjà vu, onid yw? Ac mae'n fy nhristáu'n fawr ein bod yma eto, yn siarad am fater o'r difrifoldeb mwyaf mewn perthynas â Bwrdd Iechyd Prifysgol Betsi Cadwaladr. Mae'n wyth mlynedd—wyth mlynedd—ers iddo gael ei wneud yn destun mesurau arbennig am y tro cyntaf. Wyth mlynedd lle rydym wedi tystio i gyfres o sgandalau. Pob un yn tanseilio hyder, pob un yn tanseilio morâl staff. Ac mae'r adroddiad hwn gan Ernst & Young yr ydym yn ei drafod heddiw, mewn cymaint o ffyrdd, yn crynhoi stori Betsi Cadwaladr. Rwy'n ei weld fel microcosm o fethiannau'r bwrdd iechyd.
Mae'n adroddiad sy'n tynnu sylw at gamreoli sylfaenol. Mae'n adroddiad sy'n tynnu sylw at anghywirdeb ariannol. Mae'n adroddiad sy'n tynnu sylw at ddiffyg tryloywder. Mae'n adroddiad sy'n tynnu sylw at ymateb annigonol gan Lywodraeth Cymru, ac mae ei methiant i ddarparu tryloywder drwy roi copi o'r adroddiad i ni yn swyddogol yn rhan o hynny. Mae'n enghraifft arall o feio'r bobl anghywir. Cofiwch, adroddiad yw hwn a gomisiynwyd gan aelodau annibynnol y bwrdd, a oedd am unioni pethau a thaflu goleuni ar yr hyn oedd yn digwydd yn Betsi Cadwaladr. Ac eto, nhw a ddiswyddwyd i bob pwrpas a'u gorfodi i fynd cyn i'r adroddiad hwn weld golau dydd. Mae'r adroddiad wedi'i seilio ar faterion ariannol. Mae'r diffygion a ddaeth yn amlwg drwyddo yn debyg iawn, onid ydynt, i'r problemau a welsom gyda'r ddarpariaeth iechyd meddwl, gyda gwasanaethau fasgwlaidd, gydag adroddiadau di-rif a dynnai sylw at fethiannau difrifol yn arweinyddiaeth y bwrdd iechyd.
Rydym yn sicr wedi colli ffydd yng ngallu Llywodraeth Cymru i reoli Betsi Cadwaladr, a chofiwch fod hon yn Llywodraeth sy'n rhedeg Bwrdd Iechyd Prifysgol Betsi Cadwaladr yn uniongyrchol i bob pwrpas, drwy'r drefn mesurau arbennig. A chymryd cyfrifoldeb sydd felly mor hanfodol bwysig. Fel y dywedais yn gynharach, nodaf yng nghynnig y Ceidwadwyr heddiw eu bod yn galw am ryddhau'r adroddiad yn ei gyfanrwydd. Yn amlwg, mae angen inni weld hynny'n digwydd. Pan dynnodd Adam sylw at y cynnwys yma, roedd yn rhywbeth a ysgydwodd hyd yn oed ymhellach y ffydd a oedd gan bobl yn yr hyn oedd yn digwydd wrth geisio datrys problemau yn Betsi Cadwaladr.
Byddaf yn parhau i rygnu ymlaen am yr angen i ailstrwythuro Betsi, nid oherwydd fy mod eisiau ailstrwythuro—bobol bach, hoffem osgoi hynny—ond nid yw'n gweithio ar hyn o bryd. Ac unwaith eto, rwy'n galw ar Lywodraeth Cymru i roi cynllun ar waith. Rhowch gynllun B ar waith. Ond mae'n rhaid cyhoeddi'r adroddiad hwn. Rwyf am weld ymchwiliad llawn gan yr heddlu iddo, ac mae angen inni fod ar lwybr tuag at well gwasanaethau iechyd yn y gogledd, oherwydd nid ydym yno eto.
I really am very grateful for the opportunity to speak, albeit briefly in this debate. I know that there are many Members who wish to contribute. Firstly, we should recognise that NHS staff in north Wales, as across the whole of the United Kingdom, do amazing work each and every day. As others have already said, the health board in north Wales is in special measures, but so too are more than 20 health boards in England, I believe, and that can be in no small part due to pressures resulting from years of austerity. But the designation of special measures status should not undermine our support or commitment to the NHS. Surely, it's those American health insurance companies and private healthcare providers that are most excited and gleeful about so many English health boards, along with Betsi Cadwaladr, being in special measures. I believe that nobody in this Chamber wants them to realise their ambitions and take apart our precious NHS.
The Ernst & Young report has caused enormous interest in north Wales, and information emerging from it has undoubtedly further damaged public trust in the organisation. It was a report, as has been said, that came as a result of the inquiry that was initiated by the former independent members, and I'd like to say this: the report is owned by the board, and the board must rebuild public trust in the organisation. To build trust you must provide the truth and be transparent, and so the board should not be asking for legal advice over whether to publish the report, but instead seeking legal advice over when and in what form it should be published, in a form and at a point that will not prejudice any disciplinary action that may have been initiated or may yet be initiated. And finally, I’d also urge the board to publish the legal advice it receives, so the public can enjoy maximum transparency.
Rwy'n ddiolchgar iawn am y cyfle i siarad, er yn fyr yn y ddadl hon. Rwy'n gwybod bod yna lawer o Aelodau sy'n dymuno cyfrannu. Yn gyntaf, dylem gydnabod bod staff y GIG yng ngogledd Cymru, fel ar draws y Deyrnas Unedig gyfan, yn gwneud gwaith anhygoel bob dydd. Fel y mae eraill eisoes wedi dweud, mae'r bwrdd iechyd yng ngogledd Cymru yn destun mesurau arbennig, ond mae hynny'n wir am fwy nag 20 o fyrddau iechyd yn Lloegr hefyd rwy'n credu, ac mae hynny i raddau helaeth oherwydd pwysau sy'n deillio o flynyddoedd o gyni. Ond ni ddylai dynodi statws mesurau arbennig danseilio ein cefnogaeth na'n hymrwymiad i'r GIG. Yn sicr, cwmnïau yswiriant iechyd Americanaidd a darparwyr gofal iechyd preifat sydd fwyaf cyffrous a llawen ynglŷn â'r ffaith bod cynifer o fyrddau iechyd Lloegr, ynghyd â Betsi Cadwaladr, yn destun mesurau arbennig. Nid wyf yn credu bod unrhyw un yn y Siambr hon eisiau iddynt wireddu eu huchelgeisiau a chwalu ein GIG gwerthfawr.
Mae adroddiad Ernst & Young wedi creu diddordeb enfawr yng ngogledd Cymru, ac yn ddi-os, mae gwybodaeth sy'n dod i'r amlwg ohono wedi niweidio hyder y cyhoedd yn y sefydliad ymhellach. Mae'n adroddiad, fel y dywedwyd, a ddaeth o ganlyniad i'r ymchwiliad a gychwynnwyd gan y cyn-aelodau annibynnol, a hoffwn ddweud hyn: y bwrdd sy'n berchen ar yr adroddiad, a rhaid i'r bwrdd ailadeiladu hyder y cyhoedd yn y sefydliad. Er mwyn adeiladu hyder, rhaid ichi ddarparu'r gwir a bod yn dryloyw, ac felly, ni ddylai'r bwrdd fod yn gofyn am gyngor cyfreithiol ynglŷn ag a ddylid cyhoeddi'r adroddiad ai peidio, ond yn hytrach, dylai ofyn am gyngor cyfreithiol ynglŷn â phryd ac ar ba ffurf y dylid ei gyhoeddi, ar ffurf ac ar bwynt na fydd yn niweidio unrhyw gamau disgyblu a allai fod wedi'u cychwyn neu a allai fod eto i'w cychwyn. Ac yn olaf, hoffwn annog y bwrdd hefyd i gyhoeddi'r cyngor cyfreithiol y mae'n ei gael, fel y gall fod mor dryloyw â phosibl i'r cyhoedd.
I'm disappointed. I know, Minister, we all do feel that ultimately it is your responsibility. This is a health board that is now in special measures because of all the failings over many years, actually. But I actually am disappointed in the Minister for north Wales, Lesley Griffiths, who herself has, by deleting the motion, sent a very clear message. She does not want the residents in north Wales and her constituents and mine to see a report into the health board that the Welsh Government are funding and that these people rely on for good healthcare.
The Minister for Health and Social Services—to be honest, there’s huge disappointment there, too. You recently wrote to me stating that the Ernst & Young report was commissioned by Betsi Cadwaladr University Health Board and that, in view of the ownership of the report and the ongoing disciplinary process at the board, it is for them to decide on any publication of the report. I find that a complete abrogation of responsibility on your part, and so many of my constituents and patients feel the same. At the end of the day, it’s you that allocates taxpayers’ money to the health board. It is you, the Welsh Government, that have the board in special measures, and it is you as a Welsh Government that have the levers at your disposal to ensure that this report is published.
Leadership has been a major factor throughout all the problems and the failings that we’ve seen in this health board. Leadership was also a major factor when placing the health board in special measures in 2016, so there have been at least seven years of leadership failure, and there is a real chance the findings in the Ernst & Young report could be seen in financial years prior to those reviewed. In fact, a snippet from the leaked report states that there have
'been systematic cultural failings in the finance team and leadership'
at Betsi board. This is all we’re asking for—no organisation, or indeed a government, is any use with poor and weak leadership. Minister, a number of my constituents are actually suffering as a result of all the failures of this health board. Please take the responsibility for it yourself. You could do that today by supporting our motion. Diolch.
Rwy'n siomedig. Rwy'n gwybod, Weinidog, ein bod i gyd yn teimlo mai eich cyfrifoldeb chi yw hyn yn y pen draw. Dyma fwrdd iechyd sydd bellach yn destun mesurau arbennig oherwydd yr holl fethiannau dros nifer o flynyddoedd. Ond rwy'n siomedig yn y Gweinidog dros ogledd Cymru, Lesley Griffiths, sydd ei hun, drwy ddileu'r cynnig, wedi anfon neges glir iawn. Nid yw am i'r trigolion yng ngogledd Cymru a'i hetholwyr hi a minnau weld yr adroddiad ar y bwrdd iechyd y mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn ei ariannu ac y mae'r bobl hyn yn dibynnu arno am ofal iechyd da.
Weinidog Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol—i fod yn onest, mae siom enfawr yno hefyd. Fe wnaethoch ysgrifennu ataf yn ddiweddar yn nodi bod adroddiad Ernst & Young wedi'i gomisiynu gan Fwrdd Iechyd Prifysgol Betsi Cadwaladr, ac o ystyried perchnogaeth ar yr adroddiad a'r broses ddisgyblu barhaus yn y bwrdd, mai nhw sydd i benderfynu ynghylch cyhoeddi'r adroddiad. Rwy'n gweld hynny fel methiant llwyr i ysgwyddo cyfrifoldeb ar eich rhan chi, ac mae cymaint o fy etholwyr a chleifion yn teimlo'r un peth. Yn y pen draw, chi sy'n dyrannu arian trethdalwyr i'r bwrdd iechyd. Chi, Lywodraeth Cymru, sydd wedi gwneud y bwrdd yn destun mesurau arbennig, a chi fel Llywodraeth Cymru sydd â'r dulliau wrth law i sicrhau bod yr adroddiad hwn yn cael ei gyhoeddi.
Mae arweinyddiaeth wedi bod yn ffactor pwysig drwy gydol yr holl broblemau a'r methiannau a welsom yn y bwrdd iechyd. Roedd arweinyddiaeth hefyd yn ffactor pwysig wrth wneud y bwrdd iechyd yn destun mesurau arbennig yn 2016, felly mae o leiaf saith mlynedd o fethiant wedi bod gyda'r arweinyddiaeth, ac mae'n debygol iawn y gellid gweld y canfyddiadau yn adroddiad Ernst & Young mewn blynyddoedd ariannol cyn y rhai a adolygwyd. Mewn gwirionedd, mae pwt o'r adroddiad a ddatgelwyd yn answyddogol yn nodi bod
'methiannau diwylliannol systematig wedi bod yn y tîm cyllid ac arweinyddiaeth'
bwrdd Betsi. Dyma'r cyfan y gofynnwn amdano—ni all unrhyw sefydliad, na llywodraeth yn wir, fod o ddefnydd o gwbl gydag arweinyddiaeth wael a gwan. Weinidog, mae nifer o fy etholwyr yn dioddef o ganlyniad i holl fethiannau'r bwrdd iechyd hwn. Ysgwyddwch y cyfrifoldeb eich hun. Gallwch wneud hynny heddiw trwy gefnogi ein cynnig. Diolch.
Before I call on Mark Isherwood I want to clarify that the Minister for Rural Affairs and North Wales submitted the amendment in her role as Trefnydd, not in her role as Minister for north Wales. Mark Isherwood.
Cyn imi alw ar Mark Isherwood, hoffwn egluro fod y Gweinidog Materion Gwledig a Gogledd Cymru wedi cyflwyno'r gwelliant yn ei rôl fel Trefnydd, nid yn ei rôl fel Gweinidog gogledd Cymru. Mark Isherwood.
The Minister refers to the number of organisations in England in special measures but fails to mention that these organisations are not in escalation for long, because NHS England brings in an external expert team to resolve the difficulties. Speaking publicly in March, the health board's former chair stated:
'A range of longstanding shortcomings and concerns were escalated formally at the start of September not just to the then CEO but also to the Minister and the Director General. Those escalations and the basis for them were simply ignored by Government'.
Speaking here in March, I quoted from a statement I'd received on behalf of the former independent members of the health board, in which they stated that
'Welsh Government and the executive team run the health board, with the board an afterthought at times.... Those who battled to see the organisation learn from past failings have been replaced.'
At its meeting on 3 May, the Public Accounts and Public Administration Committee, or PAPAC, received evidence from former independent non-executive members of the health board forced to resign by the Minister. This included:
'it was actually the independent members then that brought in Ernst & Young to come and do an independent further in-depth review, and that currently is a report that clearly has not yet been released into the public domain...we were absolutely flabbergasted at that statement of 'no further action' from NHS counter-fraud when items within the Ernst & Young report quite clearly show a range of financial irregularities of a significant amount, not just within Betsi, but potentially reaching into other departments across the NHS in Wales, other health boards, and, in fact, straight into the Welsh Government itself.'
and, 'The financial performance wasn't our only area of concern. The Ernst & Young report should be released, given what we knew.'
As PAPAC Chair, I have been in discussions with the health board for some weeks, to obtain a copy of this report for formal committee scrutiny. We have offered to discuss various options regarding how this report can be shared with us to ensure that any ongoing investigations are not impeded. I am committed to working with the health board to secure a copy of this report through official channels as soon as possible.
We are all aware of the public interest in these matters, and it is frustrating that, while the contents of the report have been detailed in the public domain, PAPAC has not been afforded the opportunity to conduct appropriate scrutiny. It is imperative that our request is dealt with expediently to allow prompt and thorough action and scrutiny by PAPAC.
In the event that the report is not made available to the committee, we will explore our powers to call, under section 37 of the Government of Wales Act 2006. However, I hope that we will not need to exercise this legal power and expect the health board to recognise the respect that is due to a national legislature on a significant matter such as this.
Mae'r Gweinidog yn cyfeirio at nifer y sefydliadau yn Lloegr sy'n destun mesurau arbennig ond nid yw'n nodi nad yw'r sefydliadau hyn wedi'u huwchgyfeirio am gyfnod hir, am fod GIG Lloegr yn dod â thîm arbenigol allanol i mewn i ddatrys yr anawsterau. Wrth siarad yn gyhoeddus ym mis Mawrth, dywedodd cyn-gadeirydd y bwrdd iechyd:
'Cafodd ystod o ddiffygion a phryderon hirsefydlog eu huwchgyfeirio'n ffurfiol ddechrau mis Medi, nid yn unig i'r prif swyddog gweithredol ar y pryd ond hefyd i'r Gweinidog a'r Cyfarwyddwr Cyffredinol. Cafodd yr uwchgyfeiriadau hynny ynghyd â'r sail drostynt eu hanwybyddu gan y Llywodraeth'.
Wrth siarad yma ym mis Mawrth, dyfynnais o ddatganiad a gefais ar ran cyn-aelodau annibynnol y bwrdd iechyd, lle'r oeddent yn datgan mai
'Llywodraeth Cymru a'r tîm gweithredol sy'n rhedeg y bwrdd iechyd, ac nid yw'r bwrdd ond yn ôl-ystyriaeth ar adegau.... Mae'r rhai a frwydrodd i weld y sefydliad yn dysgu o fethiannau'r gorffennol wedi cael eu disodli.'
Yn ei gyfarfod ar 3 Mai, derbyniodd y Pwyllgor Cyfrifon Cyhoeddus a Gweinyddiaeth Gyhoeddus dystiolaeth gan gyn-aelodau anweithredol annibynnol y bwrdd iechyd a orfodwyd i ymddiswyddo gan y Gweinidog. Roedd hyn yn cynnwys:
'Yr aelodau annibynnol felly ddaeth ag Ernst & Young i mewn i wneud adolygiad manwl annibynnol pellach, ac ar hyn o bryd mae'n adroddiad nad yw wedi ei ryddhau i'r cyhoedd eto... roeddem yn gwbl syfrdan gyda'r datganiad 'dim gweithredu pellach' gan y gwasanaeth atal twyll yn y GIG pan fo eitemau yn adroddiad Ernst & Young yn dangos yn eithaf clir ystod o afreoleidd-dra ariannol sylweddol, nid yn unig o fewn Betsi, ond o bosibl yn cyrraedd adrannau eraill ar draws y GIG yng Nghymru, byrddau iechyd eraill, ac i mewn i Lywodraeth Cymru ei hun mewn gwirionedd.'
ac, 'Nid y perfformiad ariannol oedd yr unig faes oedd yn peri pryder. Dylid rhyddhau adroddiad Ernst & Young o ystyried yr hyn a wyddem.'
Fel Cadeirydd y Pwyllgor Cyfrifon Cyhoeddus a Gweinyddiaeth Gyhoeddus, rwyf wedi bod mewn trafodaethau gyda'r bwrdd iechyd ers rhai wythnosau, i gael copi o'r adroddiad hwn ar gyfer craffu arno'n ffurfiol gan y pwyllgor. Rydym wedi cynnig trafod amryw o opsiynau ynghylch sut y gellir rhannu'r adroddiad gyda ni i sicrhau na chaiff unrhyw ymchwiliadau parhaus mo'u rhwystro. Rwyf wedi ymrwymo i weithio gyda'r bwrdd iechyd i sicrhau copi o'r adroddiad hwn trwy sianeli swyddogol cyn gynted â phosibl.
Rydym i gyd yn ymwybodol o ddiddordeb y cyhoedd yn y materion hyn, ac er bod cynnwys yr adroddiad wedi'i nodi'n gyhoeddus, mae'n rhwystredig nad yw'r Pwyllgor Cyfrifon Cyhoeddus a Gweinyddiaeth Gyhoeddus wedi cael cyfle i gyflawni gwaith craffu priodol. Mae'n hanfodol fod ein cais yn cael ei drin yn gyflym er mwyn caniatáu gweithredu a chraffu buan a thrylwyr gan y pwyllgor.
Os na fydd yr adroddiad ar gael i'r pwyllgor, byddwn yn archwilio ein pwerau i alw, o dan adran 37 o Ddeddf Llywodraeth Cymru 2006. Fodd bynnag, rwy'n gobeithio na fydd angen inni arfer y pŵer cyfreithiol hwn ac rwy'n disgwyl i'r bwrdd iechyd gydnabod y parch sy'n ddyledus i ddeddfwrfa genedlaethol ar fater o bwys fel hwn.
Galwaf ar y Gweinidog Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol—Eluned Morgan.
I call on the Minister for Health and Social Services—Eluned Morgan.
Diprwy Lywydd, many thanks for allowing me to reply to this opposition debate on the Ernst & Young report into accounting management within Betsi Cadwaladr University Health Board. The audit committee of the Betsi Cadwaladr University Health Board, on advice from the Welsh Government, commissioned Ernst & Young to undertake a forensic review of accounting management after Audit Wales qualified the health board’s accounts for 2021-22 and identified internal control failures.
As has been said on numerous occasions in this Chamber, this was not our report, so I can’t ask for it to be published. This report was commissioned by the health board, so any decision to publish any or all of the report is a matter for the health board. In fact, the health board’s chair has informed me that the health board is seeking legal advice on whether it is able to publish the report. Should that advice be to publish the report in full or in part, that is what they will do. I think that they are very anxious to do that if they get the legal okay to do that.
As I said previously, the report makes very sobering reading, and sets out some really serious failings in financial control at the health board. It did not find any evidence that anyone has personally benefited from these actions, but it did amount to extremely poor accounting practices. I have received assurances from the interim chair and interim chief executive that the health board has developed, and is implementing, a financial control action plan that responds to the issues raised in the EY report and Audit Wales findings.
My officials and the financial planning and delivery directorate of the NHS executive are working closely with the health board on the development and implementation of a financial governance and management action plan, as part of the special measures framework. This will include ensuring that the financial control action plan developed by the health board in response to the EY report and Audit Wales findings is robust and is implemented.
The health board is also progressing the management of the issues raised in the report, in line with their existing procedures and policies. Where there is any indication of incorrect actions taken by individuals, appropriate disciplinary processes are being followed, but they must be allowed to be concluded before jumping to any conclusions. There's been a great deal of interest in relation to the publication of this report; this has included Members in this Chamber quoting from leaked copies of the report, which I hope Members will appreciate could significantly compromise the extremely important processes the health board is following to get to the bottom of the issues highlighted in this report while also respecting individuals' employment rights.
As the First Minister and I have previously stated, the Welsh Government does not comment on leaked documents, particularly when—as in this case—internal procedures are still going on. I told the Chamber recently that my understanding is that the key individuals named in this report have been suspended. Whilst the health board follows its processes and procedures around key individuals named in this report, it would not be appropriate for me to say any more on that until the necessary procedures have been completed.
Ddirprwy Lywydd, diolch yn fawr iawn am ganiatáu imi ymateb i'r ddadl hon gan yr wrthblaid ynglŷn ag adroddiad Ernst & Young ar reolaeth cyfrifyddu Bwrdd Iechyd Prifysgol Betsi Cadwaladr. Yn dilyn cyngor gan Lywodraeth Cymru, comisiynodd pwyllgor archwilio Bwrdd Iechyd Prifysgol Betsi Cadwaladr Ernst & Young i gynnal adolygiad fforensig o reolaeth cyfrifyddu ar ôl i Archwilio Cymru roi barn amodol ar gyfrifon y bwrdd iechyd ar gyfer 2021-22 a nodi methiannau rheoli mewnol.
Fel y dywedwyd droeon yn y Siambr hon, nid ein hadroddiad ni oedd hwn, felly ni allaf ofyn iddo gael ei gyhoeddi. Comisiynwyd yr adroddiad gan y bwrdd iechyd, felly mater i'r bwrdd iechyd yw unrhyw benderfyniad i gyhoeddi unrhyw ran neu'r cyfan o'r adroddiad. Yn wir, mae cadeirydd y bwrdd iechyd wedi fy hysbysu bod y bwrdd iechyd yn gofyn am gyngor cyfreithiol ynglŷn ag a all gyhoeddi'r adroddiad. Os mai'r cyngor fydd cyhoeddi'r adroddiad yn llawn neu'n rhannol, dyna fyddant yn ei wneud. Rwy'n credu eu bod yn awyddus iawn i wneud hynny os cânt sêl bendith cyfreithiol i wneud hynny.
Fel y dywedais o'r blaen, mae'r adroddiad yn sobreiddiol iawn, ac yn nodi methiannau difrifol iawn o ran rheolaeth ariannol yn y bwrdd iechyd. Ni ddaeth o hyd i unrhyw dystiolaeth fod unrhyw un wedi elwa'n bersonol o'r gweithredoedd hyn, ond roedd yn datgelu arferion cyfrifyddu hynod o wael. Rwyf wedi cael sicrwydd gan y cadeirydd dros dro a'r prif weithredwr dros dro fod y bwrdd iechyd wedi datblygu, ac yn gweithredu, cynllun gweithredu rheolaeth ariannol sy'n ymateb i'r materion a godwyd yn adroddiad Ernst & Young a chanfyddiadau Archwilio Cymru.
Mae fy swyddogion a chyfarwyddiaeth cyflawni a chynllunio ariannol bwrdd gweithredol y GIG yn gweithio'n agos gyda'r bwrdd iechyd ar ddatblygu a gweithredu cynllun gweithredu llywodraethiant a rheolaeth ariannol, fel rhan o fframwaith y mesurau arbennig. Bydd hyn yn cynnwys sicrhau bod y cynllun gweithredu rheolaeth ariannol a ddatblygwyd gan y bwrdd iechyd mewn ymateb i adroddiad Ernst & Young a chanfyddiadau Archwilio Cymru yn gadarn ac yn cael eu gweithredu.
Mae'r bwrdd iechyd hefyd yn bwrw ymlaen â rheoli'r materion a godwyd yn yr adroddiad, yn unol â'u gweithdrefnau a'u polisïau presennol. Lle ceir unrhyw arwydd o gamau anghywir yn cael eu rhoi ar waith gan unigolion, mae prosesau disgyblu priodol yn cael eu dilyn, ond rhaid caniatáu iddynt gael eu cwblhau cyn neidio i unrhyw gasgliadau. Mae llawer iawn o ddiddordeb wedi bod mewn perthynas â chyhoeddi'r adroddiad hwn; mae hyn wedi cynnwys Aelodau yn y Siambr yn dyfynnu copïau o'r adroddiad a ddatgelwyd yn answyddogol, y gobeithiaf y bydd yr Aelodau'n deall y gallai beryglu'n sylweddol y prosesau hynod bwysig y mae'r bwrdd iechyd yn eu dilyn i fynd i waelod y materion a amlygwyd yn yr adroddiad gan barchu hawliau cyflogaeth unigolion ar yr un pryd.
Fel y mae'r Prif Weinidog a minnau wedi dweud yn flaenorol, nid yw Llywodraeth Cymru yn gwneud sylwadau ar ddogfennau a ddatgelir yn answyddogol, yn enwedig—fel yn yr achos hwn—pan fo gweithdrefnau mewnol yn dal i fynd rhagddynt. Dywedais wrth y Siambr yn ddiweddar mai fy nealltwriaeth i yw bod yr unigolion allweddol a enwir yn yr adroddiad hwn wedi'u hatal dros dro. Tra bod y bwrdd iechyd yn dilyn ei brosesau a'i weithdrefnau mewn perthynas ag unigolion allweddol a enwir yn yr adroddiad hwn, ni fyddai'n briodol imi ddweud mwy am hynny nes bod y gweithdrefnau angenrheidiol wedi'u cwblhau.
I'm very grateful to you for taking an intervention. You have made that statement before, that key individuals have been suspended, and I've very pleased to hear that. Can you tell me whether key individuals at the NHS Wales Shared Services Partnership have also been suspended, and not just at the Betsi Cadwaladr health board?
Rwy'n ddiolchgar iawn i chi am dderbyn ymyriad. Rydych wedi gwneud y datganiad hwnnw o'r blaen, fod unigolion allweddol wedi'u hatal dros dro, ac rwy'n falch iawn o glywed hynny. A allwch chi ddweud wrthyf a oes unigolion allweddol ym Mhartneriaeth Cydwasanaethau GIG Cymru hefyd wedi'u hatal dros dro, ac nid ym mwrdd iechyd Betsi Cadwaladr yn unig?
What I can tell you is that we have looked into shared services as well, but nobody has been suspended in that area. It is not for this Chamber to act as judge and jury on matters that will directly impact on people's personal and professional lives, as well as their well-being. The NHS counter-fraud service investigated concerns raised in the EY report, having had an opportunity to review the full report, including the appendices, and in April, decided that there was no evidence that anyone acted in a way that was motivated by personal gain, and announced that it would not be taking any criminal action at that time. North Wales Police has yet to confirm whether it considers there are grounds to launch an investigation into claims made in the report. I know the police have had early discussions with the NHS counter-fraud service and the health board and that the health board is co-operating at this early stage. I would expect them to act in a transparent and honest manner should the police decide to investigate.
Yr hyn y gallaf ei ddweud wrthych yw ein bod wedi edrych ar gydwasanaethau hefyd, ond nid oes unrhyw un wedi cael ei atal yn y maes hwnnw. Nid mater i'r Siambr yw gweithredu fel barnwr a rheithgor ar faterion a fydd yn effeithio'n uniongyrchol ar fywydau personol a phroffesiynol pobl, yn ogystal â'u llesiant. Fe wnaeth y gwasanaeth atal twyll yn y GIG ymchwilio i bryderon a godwyd yn adroddiad Ernst & Young, ar ôl cael cyfle i adolygu'r adroddiad llawn, gan gynnwys yr atodiadau, ac ym mis Ebrill, penderfynodd nad oedd tystiolaeth fod unrhyw un wedi gweithredu mewn ffordd a oedd wedi'i hysgogi gan fudd personol, a chyhoeddodd na fyddai'n rhoi unrhyw gamau troseddol ar waith bryd hynny. Nid yw Heddlu Gogledd Cymru wedi cadarnhau eto a yw'n ystyried bod sail dros agor ymchwiliad i honiadau a wnaed yn yr adroddiad. Rwy'n gwybod bod yr heddlu wedi cael trafodaethau cynnar gyda'r gwasanaeth atal twyll yn y GIG a'r bwrdd iechyd a bod y bwrdd iechyd yn cydweithredu ar y cam cynnar hwn. Byddwn yn disgwyl iddynt weithredu mewn modd tryloyw a gonest pe bai'r heddlu'n penderfynu ymchwilio.
Will the Minister give way?
A wnaiff y Gweinidog ildio?
Yes.
Gwnaf.
I'm grateful. There is a suggestion in the report, which has been reported in the media, that a company, Lightfoot Solutions, effectively changed the date on a proposal in order to allow the financial misreporting to happen. I think you met with the company in October last year. Is that company still an approved supplier to the Welsh NHS?
Rwy'n ddiolchgar. Mae awgrym yn yr adroddiad, sydd wedi cael ei adrodd gan y cyfryngau, fod cwmni, Lightfoot Solutions, wedi newid y dyddiad ar gynnig i bob pwrpas er mwyn caniatáu i'r camadrodd ariannol ddigwydd. Rwy'n credu eich bod wedi cyfarfod â'r cwmni ym mis Hydref y llynedd. A yw'r cwmni hwnnw'n dal i fod yn gyflenwr cymeradwy i GIG Cymru?
Lightfoot Solutions is providing services to some NHS organisations in Wales. Until we get to the bottom of what exactly happened and what needs to be done—. I can give you an assurance that we have looked at that. We are looking at whether there was any impropriety and exactly what happened. So, that process has been undertaken.
Mae Lightfoot Solutions yn darparu gwasanaethau i rai o sefydliadau'r GIG yng Nghymru. Hyd nes y gwyddom beth yn union a ddigwyddodd a beth sydd angen ei wneud—. Gallaf roi sicrwydd i chi ein bod wedi edrych ar hynny. Rydym yn ystyried a oedd unrhyw anghywirdeb a beth yn union a ddigwyddodd. Felly, mae'r broses honno wedi'i chyflawni.
Mae yna faterion difrifol o fewn yr adroddiad ac mae’r bwrdd iechyd wrthi nawr yn rhoi sylw i'r rhain. Mae hyn yn cynnwys a oedd swyddogion y bwrdd iechyd yn rhan o’r materion ariannol afreolaidd sydd o dan sylw yn yr adroddiad. Mae’r gwaith yma yn cael ei wneud yn unol â gweithdrefnau disgyblu’r bwrdd iechyd. Gallaf roi sicrwydd fy mod i yn cymryd y materion yma o ddifrif, ac fel ŷch chi'n gwybod, fe wnaeth y materion a godwyd gan Archwilio Cymru, ynghyd â phryderon difrifol eraill am effeithlonrwydd y bwrdd ac ati, arwain at roi’r bwrdd dan fesurau arbennig.
Archwilio Cymru wnaeth amlygu'r mater hwn, ac mae’n cyflawni rôl hanfodol o ran archwilio cyrff y gwasanaeth iechyd yn allanol, a rhoi sicrwydd am reoli arian cyhoeddus ym mhob bwrdd iechyd yng Nghymru. Bydd Archwilio Cymru wrthi nawr yn archwilio cyfrifon 2022-23 o ran cyrff y gwasanaeth iechyd. Mae byrddau pob bwrdd iechyd ac ymddiriedolaeth yn y gwasanaeth iechyd yn gyfrifol am weithio gydag archwilwyr, ac maen nhw hefyd yn gyfrifol am sicrhau eu hunain bod rheolaeth ac arferion ariannol eu sefydliad yn cyd-fynd nid yn unig â’u gweithdrefnau mewnol, ond hefyd gyda’u dyletswyddau cyfreithiol a statudol. Dwi wedi gofyn i fy swyddogion nodi’r materion allweddol yn yr adroddiad a allai fod yn berthnasol i sefydliadau eraill yn y gwasanaeth iechyd, ac i rannu'r themâu a'r canfyddiadau allweddol hynny gyda nhw. Felly, dyna'ch ateb chi. Felly, dwi wedi gofyn iddyn nhw ystyried unrhyw gamau eraill sydd angen eu cymryd i sicrhau bod gwersi'n cael eu dysgu ac i sicrhau nad yw'r arferion dan sylw yn digwydd nac yn gallu digwydd yn sefydliadau eraill y gwasanaeth iechyd yma yng Nghymru.
Rhaid inni gofio grym ein geiriau ni yn y Siambr yma a thu hwnt. Mae'r hyn rŷn ni'n ei ddweud yn effeithio ar sut mae aelodau o staff blaenorol a phresennol, a darpar aelodau o staff, yn teimlo am weithio yn y bwrdd iechyd, a sut mae cleifion a'u teuluoedd yn teimlo am y bwrdd iechyd a thu hwnt. Rhaid inni beidio anghofio bod staff y bwrdd iechyd yn—
There are serious issues contained within the report and the health board is currently addressing these. This includes consideration of whether officials of the health board were part of the financial issues covered in the report. This work is being done in accordance with disciplinary procedures of the health board. I can give an assurance that I am taking these issues seriously, and as you know, the issues raised by Audit Wales, as well as grave concerns elsewhere on the efficiency of the board, did lead to putting the board into special measures.
Audit Wales highlighted this issue, and it carries out a crucial role in terms of auditing health bodies and providing assurances on the use of public funds in all health boards in Wales. Audit Wales will now audit the accounts for 2022-23 in terms of health service bodies. The boards of all health boards and trusts within the NHS are responsible for working with auditors, and they're also responsible for assuring themselves that financial practices and management within their organisations comply not only with their internal procedures, but also with their legal and statutory duties. I have asked my officials to note the key issues in the report that could be pertinent to other organisations in the NHS, and to share those themes and key findings with them. So, that's my response. I have asked them to consider any other steps that need to be taken in order to ensure that lessons are learnt and that the practices addressed don't happen or can't happen within other NHS organisations here in Wales.
We must bear in mind the power of our words in this Chamber and beyond. What we say has an impact on how previous and current members of staff, and prospective members of staff, feel about working within the health board, and how patients and their families feel about the health board. We mustn't forget that health board staff—
Minister, you need to conclude now.
Weinidog, mae'n rhaid ichi ddirwyn i ben nawr.
—yn gweithio'n galed i bobl yn y gogledd o dan amgylchiadau anodd iawn. Felly, gobeithio bydd cyfle gyda fi yn ystod yr wythnosau nesaf i roi adroddiad arall ar yr hyn sydd wedi newid yn Betsi yn ddiweddar. Diolch.
—are working hard for the people in north Wales under very difficult circumstances. So, I hope that I will have an opportunity during the next few weeks to provide a further update on what has changed within Betsi recently. Thank you.
Galwaf ar Darren Millar i ymateb i'r ddadl.
I call on Darren Millar to reply to the debate.
Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer. I have to say, I'm a little disappointed at the Minister's response to the debate today. We know that, under the National Health Service (Wales) Act 2006, you do have powers to direct the health board in any way that you see fit, given that your position is that that health board is in special measures, and that means you could direct them to publish this report, which we all know is in the public interest for them to be able to see. We need some transparency. We need to be able to see this information out there. I've read the report. A copy was shared with me, as it was with other Members, on an anonymous basis, and it is scandalous: false accounting, fraud, what appears to amount to misconduct in public office being committed. All of these, of course, could be criminal matters and that is why it's absolutely appropriate that the police are carefully considering whether to take a prosecution forward.
But what else is in this report? We know that there's the deliberate alteration of documents in collusion with a supplier, Lightfoot Solutions, as has already been mentioned—a supplier that you've already confirmed is still working in the NHS in Wales. It was awarded a £1.8 million contract without going through the proper procedure. In fact, they deliberately circumvented those procedures, and people are now making money at the expense of the taxpayer as a result of those circumventions—deliberate circumventions—of the financial controls in the health board. There's no problem with the financial controls; the problem is with people deliberately circumventing those financial controls, and that's what this report exposes. It's a forensic report, which is very detailed, which goes into lots of detail, not just about Lightfoot Solutions, not just about many individuals in the health board—there are some 75 individuals listed in the front of the report—but it also, of course, goes to the heart of NHS Wales, because it goes to the NHS Wales Shared Services Partnership.
Now, frankly, people across Wales will be astonished today to learn that Simon Whitehead, the head of procurement at NHS Wales Shared Services Partnership, who deliberately set up a purchase order that was designed deliberately not to go through the system properly or go to Lightfoot Solutions, is not suspended for his actions. This is a person who is a senior employee in that procurement team at NHS Wales Shared Services Partnership. Frankly, I think that that amounts to gross misconduct and that that individual should no longer be able to work in the NHS, but you've told us that this person is in work, that there's been no suspension, and it doesn't appear as though anything is happening to that particular individual. There are many other individuals, of course, named in the report, who still appear to be at their desks in the Betsi Cadwaladr University Health Board, doing the day job, on significant salaries, who knew what they were doing in covering up information, deliberately bending the rules or breaking the rules deliberately, in order that they could have their way.
Now, you've had this report, and so has the health board, for four and a half months. I don't know how long it takes to organise a dismissal of people and to hold them to account, but it shouldn't be taking four and a half months, frankly, given the information in this report, which seems to be pretty black and white as to what was going on. There are appendices to the report, which I haven't seen, which are copies of e-mails and other details, which I also believe need to be in the public domain. And if they are, I think, frankly, Minister, people in north Wales will be cheering you on for being a champion for them in exposing the rot at the top of this organisation, so that we can weed it out, have a good clear up, and get decent people in charge who have the right culture, who are honest, and want to deliver the change that we so desperately need to see in our health service in north Wales.
So, four and half months on, we still haven't seen a single person sacked. We've seen people move from the health board who were involved, and get other jobs elsewhere, including senior roles, again, within all-Wales NHS organisations, including Sue Green, the former executive director of human resources at the health board in north Wales, who now has an even wider role across the whole of Wales. And this is an individual who failed to sort out and procure and deliver a new chief executive within a specified time frame—
Diolch yn fawr, Ddirprwy Lywydd. Mae'n rhaid imi ddweud, rwyf braidd yn siomedig gydag ymateb y Gweinidog i'r ddadl heddiw. O dan Ddeddf y Gwasanaeth Iechyd Gwladol (Cymru) 2006, gwyddom fod gennych bwerau i gyfarwyddo'r bwrdd iechyd mewn unrhyw ffordd y gwelwch yn addas, o gofio mai eich safbwynt yw bod y bwrdd iechyd yn destun mesurau arbennig, a golyga hynny y gallech eu cyfarwyddo i gyhoeddi'r adroddiad y gŵyr pob un ohonom ei bod o fudd i'r cyhoedd allu ei weld. Rydym angen tryloywder. Mae angen inni allu gweld yr wybodaeth hon allan yno. Rwyf wedi darllen yr adroddiad. Rhannwyd copi gyda mi, fel gydag Aelodau eraill, ar sail anhysbys, ac mae'n warthus: cyfrifyddu ffug, twyll, ac yn ôl pob golwg, yr hyn sy'n gyfystyr â chamymddwyn mewn swydd gyhoeddus. Gallai pob un o'r rhain, wrth gwrs, fod yn faterion troseddol, a dyna pam ei bod yn gwbl briodol fod yr heddlu yn ystyried yn ofalus a ddylid bwrw ymlaen ag erlyniad.
Ond beth arall sydd yn yr adroddiad hwn? Gwyddom fod newidiadau bwriadol wedi'u gwneud i ddogfennau drwy gydgynllwynio â chyflenwr, Lightfoot Solutions, fel y crybwyllwyd eisoes—cyflenwr rydych eisoes wedi cadarnhau eu bod yn dal i weithio yn y GIG yng Nghymru. Dyfarnwyd contract gwerth £1.8 miliwn iddynt heb fynd drwy'r drefn briodol. Mewn gwirionedd, fe wnaethant osgoi'r gweithdrefnau hynny'n fwriadol, ac mae pobl bellach yn gwneud elw ar draul y trethdalwr o ganlyniad i osgoi—osgoi'n fwriadol—y rheolaethau ariannol yn y bwrdd iechyd. Nid oes problem gyda'r rheolaethau ariannol; y broblem yw pobl yn osgoi'r rheolaethau ariannol hynny'n fwriadol, a dyna mae'r adroddiad hwn yn ei ddatgelu. Mae'n adroddiad fforensig, manwl iawn, ac mae'n manylu'n fawr nid yn unig am Lightfoot Solutions, nid yn unig am lawer o unigolion yn y bwrdd iechyd—rhestrwyd tua 75 o unigolion ar ddechrau'r adroddiad—ond mae hefyd, wrth gwrs, yn mynd at wraidd GIG Cymru, gan ei fod yn sôn am Bartneriaeth Cydwasanaethau GIG Cymru.
Nawr, a dweud y gwir, bydd pobl ledled Cymru yn synnu wrth glywed heddiw na fydd Simon Whitehead, pennaeth caffael Partneriaeth Cydwasanaethau GIG Cymru, a sefydlodd archeb brynu a luniwyd yn fwriadol i beidio â mynd drwy'r system yn briodol neu fynd i Lightfoot Solutions, yn cael ei atal dros dro am ei weithredoedd. Dyma unigolyn sy'n gweithio fel un o uwch-aelodau'r tîm caffael hwnnw ym Mhartneriaeth Cydwasanaethau GIG Cymru. A dweud y gwir, credaf fod hynny'n gyfystyr â chamymddwyn difrifol ac na ddylai'r unigolyn hwnnw allu gweithio yn y GIG mwyach, ond rydych wedi dweud wrthym fod yr unigolyn hwn yn dal yn ei swydd, nad yw wedi cael ei atal dros dro, ac nad yw'n ymddangos bod unrhyw beth yn digwydd i'r unigolyn penodol hwnnw. Mae llawer o unigolion eraill wedi'u henwi yn yr adroddiad wrth gwrs, sy'n dal i fod wrth eu desgiau ym Mwrdd Iechyd Prifysgol Betsi Cadwaladr yn ôl pob golwg, yn gwneud eu swyddi ar gyflogau sylweddol, ac a oedd yn gwybod beth oeddent yn ei wneud wrth guddio gwybodaeth, a phlygu'r rheolau neu dorri'r rheolau'n fwriadol er mwyn iddynt allu cael eu ffordd eu hunain.
Nawr, mae'r adroddiad hwn wedi bod gennych chi, a'r bwrdd iechyd hefyd, ers pedwar mis a hanner. Nid wyf yn gwybod pa mor hir y mae'n ei gymryd i ddiswyddo pobl a'u dwyn i gyfrif, ond ni ddylai gymryd pedwar mis a hanner, o ystyried yr wybodaeth yn yr adroddiad hwn, sy'n nodi'r hyn a oedd yn digwydd yn eithaf clir. Ceir atodiadau i'r adroddiad, nad wyf wedi'u gweld, sef copïau o negeseuon e-bost a manylion eraill, a chredaf fod angen iddynt hwythau gael eu cyhoeddi hefyd. Ac os cânt eu cyhoeddi, Weinidog, credaf y bydd pobl yng ngogledd Cymru yn eich cymeradwyo am sefyll o'u plaid a datgelu'r pydredd ar frig y sefydliad hwn, fel y gallwn ei chwynnu, cael gwared ar y llanast, a chael pobl addas wrth y llyw sydd â'r diwylliant cywir, sy'n onest, ac sydd am gyflawni'r newid y mae taer angen inni ei weld yn ein gwasanaeth iechyd yng ngogledd Cymru.
Felly, bedwar mis a hanner yn ddiweddarach, nid ydym wedi gweld unrhyw un yn cael eu diswyddo. Rydym wedi gweld pobl a oedd ynghlwm wrth hyn yn gadael y bwrdd iechyd ac yn cael swyddi eraill mewn lleoedd eraill, gan gynnwys rolau uwch, unwaith eto, yn sefydliadau GIG Cymru, gan gynnwys Sue Green, cyn-gyfarwyddwr gweithredol adnoddau dynol y bwrdd iechyd yng ngogledd Cymru, sydd bellach â rôl ehangach fyth ledled Cymru gyfan. A dyma unigolyn a fethodd ddatrys a chaffael a sicrhau prif weithredwr newydd o fewn amserlen benodol—
Darren, you need to conclude.
Darren, mae angen ichi ddirwyn i ben.
—something that was criticised heavily by Audit Wales. So, I urge everybody in this Chamber, and I remind you that we're not calling on the Minister to publish this report; we are calling upon the Betsi Cadwaladr University Health Board to publish this report, because it's in the public interest. And I very much hope, therefore, that Labour Members, particularly those in north Wales, will not be whipped and that they'll be able to use their own judgment in being able to call upon the health board to publish this report, and get it into the public domain as soon as possible.
—rhywbeth a feirniadwyd yn hallt gan Archwilio Cymru. Felly, rwy'n annog pawb yn y Siambr hon, ac rwy'n eich atgoffa nad ydym yn galw ar y Gweinidog i gyhoeddi'r adroddiad hwn; rydym yn galw ar Fwrdd Iechyd Prifysgol Betsi Cadwaladr i gyhoeddi'r adroddiad hwn, am ei fod er budd y cyhoedd. A gobeithiaf yn fawr felly na fydd Aelodau Llafur, yn enwedig y rhai yng ngogledd Cymru, yn cael eu chwipio ac y byddant yn gallu defnyddio eu crebwyll eu hunain i allu galw ar y bwrdd iechyd i gyhoeddi'r adroddiad, a'i wneud yn gyhoeddus cyn gynted â phosibl.
Y cwestiwn yw: a ddylid derbyn y cynnig heb ei ddiwygio? A oes unrhyw Aelod yn gwrthwynebu? [Gwrthwynebiad.] Oes, felly gohirir y bleidlais ar y cynnig tan y cyfnod pleidleisio.
The proposal is to agree the motion without amendment. Does any Member object? [Objection.] There are objections. I will therefore defer voting under this item until voting time.
Gohiriwyd y pleidleisio tan y cyfnod pleidleisio.
Voting deferred until voting time.
Detholwyd y gwelliant canlynol: gwelliant 1 yn enw Lesley Griffiths.
The following amendment has been selected: amendment 1 in the name of Lesley Griffiths.
Eitem 7 heddiw yw ail ddadl y Ceidwadwyr Cymreig ar gynefinoedd carbon glas, a galwaf ar Janet Finch-Saunders i wneud y cynnig.
Item 7 this afternoon is the second Welsh Conservatives debate on blue carbon habitats, and I call on Janet Finch-Saunders to move the motion.
Cynnig NDM8283 Darren Millar
Cynnig bod y Senedd:
1. Yn cydnabod bod moroedd Cymru yn cynnwys morwellt, morfeydd heli, a chynefinoedd carbon glas gwymon, sy'n cwmpasu mwy na 99km² o rwydwaith ardaloedd morol gwarchodedig Cymru.
2. Yn nodi bod carbon eisoes yn cael ei storio yng ngwaddodion morol Cymru.
3. Yn gresynu at y ffaith bod hyd at 92 y cant o forwellt y DU wedi diflannu yn ystod y ganrif ddiwethaf, fel yr amlygwyd yn Adroddiad y Pwyllgor Newid Hinsawdd, Amgylchedd a Seilwaith ar bolisïau morol Llywodraeth Cymru.
4. Yn cydnabod bod galluoedd storio carbon y cefnfor yn hanfodol wrth gyrraedd y targed o ddod yn sero-net erbyn 2050.
5. Yn galw ar Lywodraeth Cymru i:
a) creu cynllun adfer carbon glas cenedlaethol i Gymru, wedi'i gynllunio i gynnal a gwella ein cynefinoedd carbon glas morol amhrisiadwy;
b) adeiladu ar lwyddiant Prosiect Seagrass, cydweithrediad rhwng Sky Ocean Rescue, WWF a Phrifysgol Abertawe, sy'n anelu at adfer 20,000m² o forwellt, drwy blannu dros 750,000 o hadau ym Mae Dale yn Sir Benfro; ac
c) datblygu cynllun datblygu morol cenedlaethol Cymru sy'n dangos yn glir lle y gellir cynnal prosiectau carbon glas.
Motion NDM8283 Darren Millar
To propose that the Senedd:
1. Recognises Welsh seas contain seagrass, saltmarsh, and seaweed blue carbon habitats, encompassing more than 99km² of the Welsh marine protected areas network.
2. Notes that carbon is already stored away in Welsh marine sediments.
3. Regrets that up to 92 per cent of the UK’s seagrass has disappeared in the last century, as highlighted in the Climate Change, Environment, and Infrastructure Committee’s Report on the Welsh Government’s marine policies.
4. Acknowledges that the carbon-storing capabilities of the ocean is critical in meeting the target of becoming net-zero by 2050.
5. Calls on the Welsh Government to:
a) create a national blue carbon recovery plan for Wales, designed to maintain and enhance our invaluable marine blue carbon habitats;
b) build on the success of Project Seagrass, a collaboration between Sky Ocean Rescue, WWF and Swansea University which aims to restore 20,000m² of seagrass, by planting over 750,000 seeds in Dale Bay in Pembrokeshire; and
c) develop a Welsh national marine development plan which clearly shows where blue carbon projects can take place.
Cynigiwyd y cynnig.
Motion moved.
I take great pleasure, actually, in speaking on this debate today because, too often, when we've talked about our carbon-zero objectives, we ignore, at our peril, the massive contribution that blue carbon habitats can make to those ambitions. Wales’s woodlands and peat bogs are regarded as being critical to our carbon strategy. We must treat marine and coastal ecosystems, not just in the same way, but with greater priority. One hundred and thirteen million tonnes of carbon is stored in the top 10 cm of marine sediments in Wales. According to NRW, that represents almost 170 per cent of the carbon held by Welsh forests. Marine ecosystems can capture more carbon per acre than forests. For example, a square metre of seagrass captures triple the amount of the equivalent from a rainforest, and 10 times the amount from grassland. So, clearly, we need to build on the success of project seagrass. It is considered that salt marshes in estuaries with high suspended sediment loads in the water column, such as the Severn estuary, would actually sequester more than our forests—at least 1.5 times as much. Now, I know the Minister has heard these arguments before, and I know, to a degree, you do agree with us on this. Now, we need a plan to support and expand salt marshes in our estuaries around Wales. This is in line with the findings by NRW in 2020, and I quote,
'In particular, the protection and restoration of habitats such as saltmarsh and seagrass which store and sequester carbon could contribute to significant increases in blue carbon. Greater protection of areas of seabed supporting (or with the potential to support) bivalve beds could also increase carbon sequestration.'
Now, we've had this evidence for years, but I'm not alone in thinking that little progress has been made. Studies have proposed that the cessation of bottom trawling would promote improved carbon storage in sub-tidal sedimentary habitats. Yet, bottom trawling is still allowed. Restoring inter-tidal and shallow sub-tidal habitats would yield the greatest per-unit area benefit in terms of increased carbon sequestration. Now, there are various techniques that have been used to achieve this, with managed realignment being the most commonly applied and proven method for creating inter-tidal habitats. This has, for example, been undertaken in Morfa Friog in Gwynedd. With the coastal flood risk ever increasing, it would be worth while assessing if there are sections of the Welsh coast where management realignment could take place without threatening anybody's homes. For some shallow, sub-tidal, biogenic habitats, such as seagrasses and oyster beds, we should be looking to Celtic partners. Many authors have argued that carbon stored in shells represents a long-term store.
Now, I've been liaising with Ulster Wildlife and the Wild Oysters project. They are doing such amazing work in Northern Ireland and in Conwy. There are oysters under Conwy marina, the pontoons, and this is helping to restore a historically important species. Just think, the significant Mumbles or Oystermouth fishery was the largest in Wales, supporting 400 fishermen across 188 boats. Locally to Conwy, there have also been productive native oyster beds during the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries near Caernarfon and Bangor, off Puffin Island, and around Anglesey, but sadly, now, only a few small native oyster populations remain in Wales. Our friends across the Irish sea have proposed the idea of Celtic oysters, where Wales could work with Northern Ireland and other stakeholders to restore our shellfish. What an amazing international mission that could be. So, Minister, we want to see you take the huge potential strides in combating the climate and nature crises by looking out to our sea, and it's in our amendments.
For years, I've been explaining the need for a Welsh national marine development plan and spatial plan as well that clearly shows where every type of project could take place, including blue carbon, but yet, we're still having to call on yourselves to deliver this spatial approach to marine planning. Similarly, you are even calling on yourselves to deliver national blue carbon recovery. However, over a year on since our climate change committee supported calls for a national blue carbon recovery plan, we are yet to see one. Both the Wales Environment Link and the Marine Conservation Society are spot on when they highlight the carbon storing capabilities of the ocean as critical in meeting the target of becoming net zero by 2050.
This week, the climate change committee has disclosed that Wales is falling behind on actions needed to fight climate change. Now is the time to unleash the blue carbon potential for Wales. At the end of the day, marine ecosystems can capture more carbon per acre than forests; they can help combat the climate and nature crises. So, please back our proposals today.
Now, to put it bluntly, devolving the Crown Estate would be an unnecessary distraction that would cause even more delays. We will never support that. Our environment deserves better. Diolch yn fawr iawn.
Mae'n bleser mawr gennyf siarad yn y ddadl hon heddiw oherwydd, yn rhy aml, pan fyddwn yn sôn am ein hamcanion di-garbon, rydym yn gwneud y camgymeriad o anwybyddu'r cyfraniad enfawr y gall cynefinoedd carbon glas ei wneud i'r uchelgeisiau hynny. Ystyrir coetiroedd a mawnogydd Cymru yn hanfodol i'n strategaeth garbon. Mae'n rhaid inni drin ecosystemau morol ac arfordirol, nid yn unig yn yr un ffordd, ond gyda mwy o flaenoriaeth. Mae 113 miliwn tunnell o garbon wedi'i storio yn y 10 cm uchaf o waddodion morol yng Nghymru. Yn ôl CNC, mae hynny bron yn 170 y cant o'r carbon sydd wedi'i ddal yng nghoedwigoedd Cymru. Gall ecosystemau morol ddal mwy o garbon yr erw na choedwigoedd. Er enghraifft, mae metr sgwâr o forwellt yn dal tair gwaith cymaint ag ardal gyfatebol ei maint o fforest law, a 10 gwaith cymaint â glaswelltir. Felly, yn amlwg, mae angen inni adeiladu ar lwyddiant y prosiect morwellt. Ystyrir y byddai morfeydd heli mewn aberoedd gyda lefel uchel o waddod mewn daliant yn y golofn ddŵr, fel aber afon Hafren, yn atafaelu mwy o garbon na'n coedwigoedd—o leiaf 1.5 gwaith cymaint. Nawr, gwn fod y Gweinidog wedi clywed y dadleuon hyn o'r blaen, a gwn, i raddau, eich bod yn cytuno â ni ar hyn. Nawr, mae angen cynllun arnom i gefnogi ac ehangu morfeydd heli yn ein haberoedd o amgylch Cymru. Mae hyn yn unol â chanfyddiadau CNC yn 2020,
'Yn benodol, gallai diogelu ac adfer cynefinoedd fel morfeydd heli a morwellt sy'n storio ac yn atafaelu carbon gyfrannu at gynnydd sylweddol mewn carbon glas. Gallai mwy o amddiffyniad i ardaloedd o wely'r môr sy'n cefnogi (neu sydd â'r potensial i gefnogi) gwelyau rhywogaethau dwygragennog hefyd gynyddu lefelau atafaelu carbon.'
Nawr, mae'r dystiolaeth hon wedi bod gyda ni ers blynyddoedd, ond nid fi yw'r unig un sy'n meddwl mai prin yw'r cynnydd a wnaed. Mae astudiaethau wedi cynnig y byddai rhoi'r gorau i dreillrwydo môr-waelodol yn hyrwyddo gwell lefelau storio carbon mewn cynefinoedd gwaddodol islanwol. Fodd bynnag, caniateir treillrwydo môr-waelodol o hyd. Adfer cynefinoedd rhynglanwol ac islanwol bas fyddai'n arwain at yr ardal o fudd mwyaf fesul uned o ran cynyddu lefelau atafaelu carbon. Nawr, mae amryw dechnegau wedi'u defnyddio i gyflawni hyn, a'r dull mwyaf cyffredin a phrofedig ar gyfer creu cynefinoedd rhynglanwol yw adlinio a reolir. Mae hyn, er enghraifft, wedi digwydd ym Morfa Friog yng Ngwynedd. Gyda pherygl cynyddol o lifogydd arfordirol, byddai'n werth asesu a oes rhannau o arfordir Cymru lle gellid cymryd camau adlinio a reolir heb fygwth cartrefi unrhyw un. Ar gyfer rhai cynefinoedd bas, islanwol, deuogenig, fel morwellt a gwelyau wystrys, dylem fod yn edrych ar ein partneriaid Celtaidd. Mae llawer o awduron wedi dadlau bod carbon sy'n cael ei storio mewn cregyn yn ffordd o storio'n hirdymor.
Nawr, rwyf wedi bod mewn cysylltiad ag Ulster Wildlife a phrosiect Wild Oysters. Maent yn gwneud gwaith mor anhygoel yng Ngogledd Iwerddon ac yng Nghonwy. Ceir wystrys o dan farina Conwy, y pontydd cychod, ac mae hyn yn helpu i adfer rhywogaeth hanesyddol bwysig. Meddyliwch, pysgodfa fawr y Mwmbwls neu Ystumllwynarth oedd y mwyaf yng Nghymru, yn cynnal 400 o bysgotwyr ar draws 188 o gychod. Yn lleol i Gonwy, roedd yna welyau wystrys brodorol cynhyrchiol hefyd yn ystod y ddeunawfed ganrif a'r bedwaredd ganrif ar bymtheg ger Caernarfon a Bangor, oddi ar Ynys Seiriol, ac o gwmpas Ynys Môn, ond yn anffodus, erbyn hyn, dim ond ychydig o boblogaethau wystrys brodorol bach sy'n weddill yng Nghymru. Mae ein ffrindiau ar yr ochr arall i Fôr Iwerddon wedi cynnig y syniad o wystrys Celtaidd, lle gallai Cymru weithio gyda Gogledd Iwerddon a rhanddeiliaid eraill i adfer ein pysgod cregyn. Gallai honno fod yn genhadaeth ryngwladol mor anhygoel. Felly, Weinidog, rydym am eich gweld yn cymryd y camau enfawr posibl i fynd i'r afael â'r argyfyngau hinsawdd a natur drwy edrych allan ar ein môr, ac mae hyn wedi'i gynnwys yn ein gwelliannau.
Ers blynyddoedd, rwyf wedi bod yn egluro'r angen am gynllun datblygu morol Cymreig a chynllun gofodol cenedlaethol hefyd sy'n dangos yn glir lle gallai pob math o brosiect ddigwydd, gan gynnwys carbon glas, ond eto, rydym yn dal i orfod galw arnoch i fabwysiadu ymagwedd ofodol tuag at gynlluniau morol. Yn yr un modd, rydych hyd yn oed yn galw arnoch eich hunain i sicrhau adferiad carbon glas cenedlaethol. Fodd bynnag, dros flwyddyn ers i'n pwyllgor newid hinsawdd gefnogi galwadau am gynllun adfer carbon glas cenedlaethol, rydym eto i weld un. Mae Cyswllt Amgylchedd Cymru a'r Gymdeithas Cadwraeth Forol yn llygad eu lle pan fyddant yn tynnu sylw at botensial y cefnfor i storio carbon fel elfen hanfodol ar gyfer cyrraedd y targed o ddod yn sero net erbyn 2050.
Yr wythnos hon, mae'r pwyllgor newid hinsawdd wedi datgelu bod Cymru ar ei hôl hi gyda'r camau sydd eu hangen i frwydro yn erbyn newid hinsawdd. Nawr yw'r amser i ryddhau potensial carbon glas Cymru. Yn y pen draw, gall ecosystemau morol ddal mwy o garbon fesul erw na choedwigoedd; gallant helpu i frwydro yn erbyn yr argyfyngau hinsawdd a natur. Felly, cefnogwch ein cynigion heddiw.
Nawr, a bod yn blwmp ac yn blaen, byddai datganoli Ystad y Goron yn tynnu sylw'n ddiangen oddi ar y nod ac yn achosi mwy fyth o oedi. Ni fyddwn byth yn cefnogi hynny. Mae ein hamgylchedd yn haeddu gwell. Diolch yn fawr iawn.
Rwyf wedi dethol y gwelliant i'r cynnig. Galwaf ar y Gweinidog Newid Hinsawdd i gynnig yn ffurfiol welliant 1, a gyflwynwyd yn enw Lesley Griffiths.
I have selected the amendment to the motion. I call on the Minister for Climate Change to move formally amendment 1, tabled in the name of Lesley Griffiths.
Gwelliant 1—Lesley Griffiths
Dileu popeth ar ôl pwynt 3 a rhoi yn ei le:
Yn credu y dylid manteisio ar bob cyfle ddaw i ehangu dalfa garbon Cymru, megis carbon glas, er mwyn cyflymu’n taith at sero net yn hytrach nag osgoi gweithredu.
Yn galw ar Lywodraeth y DU i ddatganoli Ystâd y Goron fel bod mwy o benderfyniadau sy’n effeithio ar garbon glas yn cael eu gwneud yng Nghymru.
Yn galw ar Lywodraeth Cymru i:
a) sicrhau adferiad carbon glas cenedlaethol trwy ariannu gwaith cynnal a gwella morwellt, morfeydd heli a chynefinoedd arfordirol eraill sy’n gyfoethog o ran eu natur a’u carbon;
b) adeiladu ar lwyddiant yr holl brosiectau ledled Cymru sy’n adfer cynefinoedd morol, gan gynnwys gwaith llwyddiannus y Prosiect Morwellt yn Dale a phrosiect Ocean Rescue Seagrass o dan arweiniad Ymddiriedolaeth Natur Gogledd Cymru, gafodd ei ariannu’n ddiweddar i dargedu gwaith adfer oddi ar arfordir Llŷn; a
c) mynd i’r afael â chynllunio morol mewn ffordd ofodol gan sicrhau bod prosiectau carbon glas yn cael eu lleoli i sicrhau’r manteision mwyaf i natur tra’n caniatáu gweithgareddau morol pwysig eraill gan gynnwys pysgota, mordwyo ac ynni.
Amendment 1—Lesley Griffiths
Delete all after point 3 and replace with:
Believes that emerging opportunities for expanding Wales's carbon sink, such blue carbon, should be pursued to accelerate our net zero pathway rather than to delay action.
Calls on the UK Government to devolve the Crown Estate so that more decisions affecting blue carbon are made in Wales.
Calls on the Welsh Government to:
a) deliver national blue carbon recovery by funding the maintenance and enhancement of Wales's seagrass, saltmarsh and other nature- and carbon-rich coastal habitats;
b) build on the success of all projects across Wales delivering marine habitat restoration, including Project Seagrass’s successful work in Dale and the recently funded Ocean Rescue Seagrass project led by North Wales Wildlife Trust, targeting restoration off the Llyn Peninsula; and
c) deliver a spatial approach to marine planning which ensures that blue carbon projects are located to achieve maximum nature benefit whilst enabling other important marine activities including fishing, shipping and energy.
Cynigiwyd gwelliant 1.
Amendment 1 moved.
Formally.
Yn ffurfiol.
Mae cynefinoedd carbon glas yn dal arwyddocâd aruthrol pan fo’n dod i’r frwydr yn erbyn newid hinsawdd. Mae gan yr ecosystemau arfordirol hyn y gallu, fel dŷn ni wedi clywed, i ymneilltuo deuocsid carbon o’r atmosffer ac i storio fe yn eu haenau gwaddodol. Maen nhw’n gallu dal a storio carbon ar raddfa—eto, fel dŷn ni wedi clywed gan Janet yn barod—ar raddfa fwy eang nag unrhyw goedwigoedd ar ein tir, felly mae’n hollbwysig ein bod ni’n ffocysu ar ddiogelu a gwarchod y cynefinoedd hyn yn effeithiol.
Ac mae’r syniad o adfer cynefinoedd carbon glas yn cynnig cyfleoedd i Gymru sy’n fwy na dim ond ymneilltuad carbon. Mae’n cynnig y cyfle inni gyfrannu at ein targedau rhyngwladol, fel cytundeb Paris. Mae gan yr ecosystemau hyn botensial ar raddfa bydol.
Ac wrth adfer y cynefinoedd hyn, mae haen fioamrywiol, wrth gwrs, achos mae’r cynefinoedd hyn yn gartref i amryw o blanhigion, o rywogaethau, gan gynnwys nifer sydd dan fygythiad. Mae adfer y cynefinoedd, mewn ffordd, yn ffordd o gynnig lloches i rywogaethau. Mae hynna’n bwysig ar gyfer ein gwytnwch cenedlaethol, prydferthwch ein harfordir, a chynaliadwyedd ein pysgodfeydd.
Blue carbon habitats are hugely significant when it comes to the struggle against climate change. These coastal ecosystems have the ability, as we've heard, to sequester carbon dioxide from the atmosphere and to store it in sedimentary layers. They can capture and store carbon at a greater rate—as we've already heard from Janet Finch-Saunders—at that greater rate than any forests on our land, so it is vital, therefore, that we focus on safeguarding and protecting these habitats effectively.
And the idea of restoring blue carbon habitats offers opportunities to Wales to go beyond carbon sequestration. It offers an opportunity to contribute to our international targets, such as the Paris agreement. These ecosystems have global potential.
And in restoring these habitats, there is a biodiversity aspect and element too, because these habitats are home to a range of plants, of species, including a number that are under threat. Restoring these habitats, in a way, is a means of providing a sanctuary to these species. This is important in terms of our national resilience, the beauty of our coastline, and the sustainability of our fisheries.
These habitats protect our coastline; they act as natural buffers that shield our shores from rising sea levels, from erosion, from storms. It isn't just the nature emergency that we need to keep in mind here, vitally important though that is, but the climate emergency too. It makes economic sense—sense for our coastal communities—that we invest in initiatives that protect these fragile systems. And that's why we do need a clear marine development plan that identifies suitable locations for renewal energy development in our marine area. It should be based on a comprehensive understanding of existing habitats, coastal geomorphology and water quality. It should be drawn up in concert with scientific experts, policy makers and stakeholders. Their expertise should guide us. And it must include monitoring the health of those ecosystems and tracking biodiversity indicators.
Now, I know that we don't have long for this debate, so I'll just say in closing that we have to involve local communities, environmental groups and industries that operate in coastal areas, because their buy-in is essential with this and so are their perspectives. We need to make sure that all these people feel a sense of ownership of this policy. It is their future, of course, that we’re providing for here as well.
So, I do thank the Conservatives for bringing this debate to our Senedd. Janet, I can't agree with you on what you said about the Crown Estate. I don't think it's a distraction; I think that it is essential in the context of what we're talking about here, but I do welcome the fact that you've brought this debate to the Senedd. Diolch yn fawr.
Mae'r cynefinoedd hyn yn gwarchod ein harfordir; maent yn gweithredu fel clustogau naturiol sy'n gwarchod ein glannau rhag y cynnydd yn lefel y môr, rhag erydiad, rhag stormydd. Er bod yr argyfwng natur yn hanfodol bwysig, mae angen inni gofio am yr argyfwng hinsawdd hefyd. Mae'n gwneud synnwyr economaidd—synnwyr i'n cymunedau arfordirol—ein bod yn buddsoddi mewn cynlluniau sy'n diogelu'r systemau bregus hyn. A dyna pam fod arnom angen cynllun datblygu morol clir sy'n nodi lleoliadau addas ar gyfer datblygu ynni adnewyddadwy yn ein hardal forol. Dylai fod yn seiliedig ar ddealltwriaeth gynhwysfawr o gynefinoedd presennol, geomorffoleg arfordirol ac ansawdd dŵr. Dylid ei lunio ar y cyd ag arbenigwyr gwyddonol, llunwyr polisi a rhanddeiliaid. Dylai eu harbenigedd ein harwain. Ac mae'n rhaid iddo gynnwys camau i fonitro iechyd yr ecosystemau hynny ac olrhain dangosyddion bioamrywiaeth.
Nawr, gwn nad oes gennym lawer o amser ar gyfer y ddadl hon, felly i gloi, dywedaf yn unig fod yn rhaid inni gynnwys cymunedau lleol, grwpiau amgylcheddol a diwydiannau sy'n gweithredu mewn ardaloedd arfordirol, gan fod eu cefnogaeth yn hanfodol, fel y mae eu safbwyntiau hefyd. Mae angen inni sicrhau bod yr holl bobl hyn yn teimlo eu bod yn berchen ar y polisi hwn. Rydym yn darparu ar gyfer eu dyfodol hwythau yma hefyd wrth gwrs.
Felly, diolch i'r Ceidwadwyr am ddod â'r ddadl hon i'n Senedd. Janet, ni allaf gytuno â chi ar yr hyn a ddywedoch chi am Ystad y Goron. Ni chredaf ei fod yn tynnu sylw oddi ar y nod; credaf ei fod yn hanfodol yng nghyd-destun yr hyn rydym yn sôn amdano yma, ond rwy'n croesawu'r ffaith eich bod wedi dod â'r ddadl hon i'r Senedd. Diolch yn fawr.
I thank the Welsh Conservative group for tabling this motion. Three years ago, I led a short debate on the need to add blue to the green recovery, and I called it 'the teal new deal', and I think that it speaks to this room today.
As I said then, and, as we've heard today, blue carbon ecosystems are some of the world's most efficient absorbers of carbon dioxide, and long-term carbon sinks. As NRW reported in 2020, the carbon stored in our marine sediments represents 170 per cent of the carbon held in Welsh forests. And seagrass meadows capture carbon at a greater rate than tropical forests, and that has already been said here today. So, therefore, protecting and enhancing blue carbon is a key piece of the net-zero picture.
Policies like the Welsh Government's national forest have captured people's imagination, here and internationally. But because blue carbon habitats are often less visible they can attract less interest and therefore political energy, which is why projects like the pioneering Welsh seagrass nursery in Pendine are vital. Project Seagrass's restoration project at Porthdinllaen on the Llŷn peninsula is already a big success story. Developing a large nursery is the next step to achieving the team's aim of restoring 2,500 hectares of seagrass in the UK by 2050. I hope the Welsh Government is able to support that going forward.
A word of caution, though—environmental management never works in silos. And this is especially true when it comes to our watercourses. We cannot restore blue carbon habitats without getting a grip on pollution and nutrient management upstream. So, I urge the Conservative Members, and all other Members who have expressed support for blue carbon habitats today, to back the Welsh Government in delivering the 170 kg per hectare nitrogen whole-farm limit this autumn.
Diolch i grŵp y Ceidwadwyr Cymreig am gyflwyno'r cynnig hwn. Dair blynedd yn ôl, arweiniais ddadl fer ar yr angen i ychwanegu glas at yr adferiad gwyrdd, ac fe'i gelwais yn 'fargen newydd wyrddlas', a chredaf fod hynny'n siarad â'r ystafell hon heddiw.
Fel y dywedais bryd hynny, ac fel rydym wedi'i glywed heddiw, ecosystemau carbon glas yw rhai o amsugnwyr carbon deuocsid mwyaf effeithlon y byd, ac maent yn ddalfeydd carbon hirdymor. Fel yr adroddwyd gan CNC yn 2020, mae'r carbon sydd wedi'i storio yn ein gwaddodion morol yn cyfateb i 170 y cant o'r carbon sydd wedi'i ddal yng nghoedwigoedd Cymru. Ac mae dolydd morwellt yn dal carbon ar gyfradd uwch na fforestydd trofannol, ac mae hynny wedi'i ddweud eisoes yma heddiw. Felly, mae diogelu a gwella carbon glas yn ddarn allweddol o'r darlun sero net.
Mae polisïau fel coedwig genedlaethol Llywodraeth Cymru wedi dal dychymyg pobl, yma ac yn rhyngwladol. Ond gan fod cynefinoedd carbon glas yn aml yn llai gweladwy, gallant ennyn llai o ddiddordeb a llai o egni gwleidyddol felly, a dyna pam fod prosiectau fel y feithrinfa forwellt arloesol ym Mhentywyn yn hanfodol. Mae prosiect adfer y Prosiect Morwellt ym Mhorth Dinllaen ym Mhen Llŷn eisoes yn llwyddiant ysgubol. Datblygu meithrinfa fawr yw'r cam nesaf tuag at gyflawni nod y tîm o adfer 2,500 hectar o forwellt yn y DU erbyn 2050. Rwy'n gobeithio y gall Llywodraeth Cymru gefnogi hynny wrth symud ymlaen.
Gair o rybudd, serch hynny—nid yw rheoli amgylcheddol byth yn gweithio mewn seilos. Ac mae hyn yn arbennig o wir am ein cyrsiau dŵr. Ni allwn adfer cynefinoedd carbon glas heb fynd i'r afael â llygredd a rheoli maethynnau ymhellach i fyny'r afon. Felly, rwy'n annog yr Aelodau Ceidwadol, a'r holl Aelodau eraill sydd wedi mynegi cefnogaeth i gynefinoedd carbon glas heddiw, i gefnogi Llywodraeth Cymru gyda chyflwyno'r terfyn nitrogen fferm gyfan o 170 kg yr hectar yr hydref hwn.
It's a pleasure to take part in this debate this afternoon. There are over 100 million tonnes of carbon stored in just the top 10 cm of marine sediments in Wales. That's nearly double the amount held in Welsh forests. So, we can say that when it comes to net carbon emissions, seagrass works twice as hard as our Welsh trees, as important as our oaks and sycamores are. In fact, some studies indicate that it can hold three times as much carbon per hectare.
The carbon-capture potential of these aquatic plants plays an integral role in managing the acidity of our water. Dissolved carbon dioxide needs to be absorbed, or this risks the further acidification of our oceans and waterways, which damages marine life and is harmful to human health too.
We know that there were 83,000 sewage spills into our waterways last year; 600,000 hours of sewage discharge. It is a particular issue here in Wales, with overflow outlets spilling 65 per cent more often than in England, and six of the 20 most polluted UK rivers being in Wales.
These spills can cause eutrophication, a harrowing process, where the growth of algal blooms is promoted due to nutrient-rich sewage spills. The algae act as big green blankets, which shade the aquatic plant life from sunlight, killing them and subsequently all of the fish in the body of water affected, creating 'dead zones'. Without seagrass and a national blue carbon recovery plan for Wales, we could see a dramatic reduction in aquatic biodiversity, because we know that marine ecosystems rely on the thousands of hectares of seagrass habitat along our beautiful Welsh coast—4,582 hectares, to be precise, which has the potential to support over 350 million fish and over 450 billion saltwater invertebrates. But, sadly, as scientists are telling us, these vital habitats are under threat and are in a perilous state. But you don't need to be a scientist to understand this; we learnt it in school: when the producers of an ecosystem like green plants reduce in number, that has a knock-on effect down the food chain. If we lose our seagrass habitats, we could see a collapse in fish numbers. This would be damaging for our fishing industry, a sector that has already seen overall farmed finfish and shellfish fall 82 per cent in value between 2019 and 2021, with a near total collapse in the tonnage produced, from 3,100 tonnes to a mere 214 tonnes, a 93 per cent decline.
Losing our seagrass habitats would be the final nail in the coffin for fishing, which will, in turn, have a domino effect for tourism, another industry under siege at present. Fewer lobsters, crabs, scallops, cod and salmon will devastate communities across Wales, from Rhyl to Tenby. When blue carbon ecosystems are degraded, they emit the carbon they previously stored. A 2019 study estimated—
Mae'n bleser cymryd rhan yn y ddadl hon y prynhawn yma. Mae dros 100 miliwn o dunelli o garbon wedi'i storio yn y 10 cm uchaf o waddodion morol yng Nghymru. Mae hynny bron ddwywaith cymaint â'r carbon sydd wedi'i ddal yng nghoedwigoedd Cymru. Felly, o ran allyriadau carbon net, gallwn ddweud bod morwellt yn gweithio ddwywaith mor galed â'n coed yng Nghymru, a'i fod yr un mor bwysig â'n coed derw a'n masarn. Mewn gwirionedd, mae rhai astudiaethau'n dangos y gall ddal tair gwaith cymaint o garbon yr hectar.
Mae potensial y planhigion dyfrol hyn i ddal carbon yn chwarae rhan hollbwysig wrth reoli asidedd ein dŵr. Mae angen i garbon deuocsid tawdd gael ei amsugno, neu mae perygl y gall asideiddio ein cefnforoedd a'n dyfrffyrdd ymhellach, gan niweidio bywyd morol a niweidio iechyd dynol hefyd.
Gwyddom y gwnaed 83,000 o ollyngiadau carthion i'n dyfrffyrdd y llynedd; 600,000 awr o ollyngiadau carthion. Mae'n broblem arbennig yma yng Nghymru, gyda gorlifoedd yn gorlifo 65 y cant yn amlach nag yn Lloegr, ac mae chwech o'r 20 o afonydd mwyaf llygredig yn y DU yng Nghymru.
Gall y gollyngiadau hyn achosi ewtroffigedd, proses dorcalonnus, lle caiff twf algâu ei hybu oherwydd gollyngiadau carthion sy'n llawn maethynnau. Mae'r algâu yn gweithredu fel blancedi mawr gwyrdd sy'n cysgodi planhigion dyfrol rhag golau'r haul, gan eu lladd, ac yna effeithir ar yr holl bysgod yn grynofa ddŵr, gan greu 'parthau marw'. Heb forwellt a chynllun adfer carbon glas cenedlaethol i Gymru, gallem weld gostyngiad dramatig mewn bioamrywiaeth ddyfrol, gan y gwyddom fod ecosystemau morol yn dibynnu ar y miloedd o hectarau o gynefinoedd morwellt ar hyd ein harfordir hardd yng Nghymru—4,582 hectar, i fod yn fanwl gywir, sydd â'r potensial i gynnal dros 350 miliwn o bysgod a dros 450 biliwn o infertebratau dŵr hallt. Ond yn anffodus, fel y dywed gwyddonwyr wrthym, mae'r cynefinoedd hanfodol hyn dan fygythiad, ac maent mewn cyflwr enbyd. Ond nid oes angen ichi fod yn wyddonydd i ddeall hyn; fe wnaethom ei ddysgu yn yr ysgol: pan fydd cynhyrchwyr ecosystemau fel planhigion gwyrdd yn lleihau yn eu nifer, mae'n cael effaith ganlyniadol i lawr y gadwyn fwyd. Os collwn ein cynefinoedd morwellt, gallem weld cwymp yn nifer y pysgod. Byddai hyn yn niweidiol i'n diwydiant pysgota, sector sydd eisoes wedi wynebu cwymp o 82 y cant yng ngwerth pysgod asgellog a physgod cregyn a ffermir rhwng 2019 a 2021, gyda nifer y tunelli a gynhyrchwyd yn dirywio o 3,100 tunnell i ddim ond 214 tunnell, gostyngiad o 93 y cant.
Colli ein cynefinoedd morwellt fyddai'r hoelen olaf yn arch y sector pysgota, a fydd, yn ei dro, yn cael effaith ganlyniadol ar dwristiaeth, diwydiant arall sydd dan warchae ar hyn o bryd. Bydd llai o gimychiaid, crancod, cregyn bylchog, penfreisiaid ac eogiaid yn dinistrio cymunedau ledled Cymru, o'r Rhyl i Ddinbych-y-pysgod. Pan fo ecosystemau carbon glas yn dirywio, maent yn allyrru'r carbon roeddent yn ei storio'n flaenorol. Amcangyfrifodd astudiaeth yn 2019—
Gareth, you need to conclude now.
Gareth, mae angen ichi ddirwyn i ben nawr.
Okay. I'll leave it there, because I've run out of time. So, just to sum up, though, briefly: let's develop that national blue carbon recovery plan and work to expand Project Seagrass, bringing the benefits to all parts of Wales and especially the Vale of Clwyd. Thank you.
Iawn. Rwyf am ei gadael yn y fan honno am fod fy amser wedi dod i ben. Felly, i grynhoi, fodd bynnag, yn gryno: gadewch inni ddatblygu'r cynllun adfer carbon glas cenedlaethol, a gweithio i ehangu'r Prosiect Morwellt, gan ddod â'r manteision i bob rhan o Gymru, ac yn enwedig i Ddyffryn Clwyd. Diolch.
Galwaf ar y Gweinidog Newid Hinsawdd, Julie James.
I call on the Minister for Climate Change, Julie James.
Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd. I very much welcome the opportunity to contribute to this debate today, though I am sorry it's such a short debate and I will not be able to address all of the issues raised, given the amount of time I will have. I will just take a moment to mention, though, the Wrexham primary school who came and sang me the most brilliant rap song about the importance of seagrass and gave me a beautiful book, which I'm just arranging with the Commission to have displayed in the Oriel, so that as many people as possible can see it. They were very passionate, as they rightly should be, about seagrass.
So, Net Zero Wales, our emissions reduction plan, published two years ago, acknowledges the role that saltmarsh and seagrass could take in our carbon budgeting, through the greenhouse gas inventory, but it also goes further in exploring the role those and other blue carbon habitats can play in adaptation to and mitigation of the effects of climate change. Many of the habitats are already part of our marine protected area network and we are taking steps to protect and restore them. As well as funding the management of the network and research to guide our priorities, we're also delivering significant new conservation action, one example being the allocation of over £1 million to the work at Rumney Great Wharf, which will re-establish saltmarsh habitat there. And Joyce mentioned one of the others, in Llŷn, which I'm particularly keen on. We will be augmenting this approach through delivering our programme for government commitment to fund targeted action to restore seagrass, saltmarsh and other nature- and carbon-rich coastal habitats.
We are currently engaging with partners to consider the most effective means of delivering the scheme and building the capacity necessary to deliver at scale and pace. We therefore support the first three points of the opposition motion, which sets out some of the challenges and opportunities around marine habitats and carbon sequestration. Our amendment seeks to significantly strengthen the calls for action. The motion on the Government amendment illustrates the difference between the approach to net zero favoured by the Conservative Party and the approach currently being pursued by the Welsh Government. Blue carbon is currently not accounted for in our net-zero pathway, and, therefore, as our understanding of the science improves, it will present new opportunities for contributing to global efforts to limit the impact of global warming.
This is not an either/or—it's not seagrass or forests. I'm regularly questioned by Members of the opposition—. If there are new opportunities for offshore wind deployment, do they think that this means we should deploy less onshore wind? It is not an either/or; we need all of the opportunities to get us to net zero, not some of them, or to highlight one over the other. If there are new opportunities to accelerate decarbonisation in Wales to contribute to global efforts, then these should be opportunities to go further, not an excuse for reduced ambition in other areas. So, I would call on all Members in the Senedd who agree that the new opportunities around blue carbon mean we must do more rather than less to vote in favour of the Government amendment today.
The opposition motion also calls for plans. I do agree that these are an important part of delivering on policy aims, but in themselves the health of the oceans will not be restored with words alone. That's why the Government amendment reflects our commitment to fund blue carbon recovery, with a focus on important habitats along the coastline. As well as helping wildlife, these globally significant habitats are part of Wales's natural heritage, and, as projects already active in Wales have shown, it's possible to achieve dramatic improvements where public bodies, conservationists, science and communities all work together, as Delyth very helpfully highlighted.
And just to say at this point that I'm the native oyster champion, Janet; I'm very well aware of the Oystermouth oyster heritage. I'm very pleased to see that we've been reseeding native oysters in Swansea bay, which has, as I said earlier in answer to Mike Hedges, been reaffirmed in its good conservation status for another year.
The opposition motion also calls for a spatial approach to marine planning, and as a Government we have committed to taking this approach in the way that our Welsh national marine plan is implemented. A spatial approach, however, cannot be just for one sector. It needs to ensure sustainable use of the sea in ways that will enable the development of a greener economy in Wales, whether that's in energy, shipping, fishing or other uses.
The original motion made a major omission by failing to deal with the most important question of responsibilities over the Crown Estate. They are the owners and decision makers on the management of the sea bed and significant areas of Wales's coastline, and therefore have an absolutely critical role to play in relation to blue carbon. We call on the UK Government to devolve responsibility for the Crown Estate to Wales, as is the case in Scotland. It's clearly not the case that the Conservative Party agrees with us, but it actually can't explain why. I'm absolutely baffled by your saying that it's a distraction. How can control over the sea bed that you want us to improve be a distraction when it's the very thing that would allow us to do it?
Deputy Llywydd, I've been brief in my remarks, given the time allocated to the debate, but I hope it's a subject we'll return to, as it deserves a much lengthier debate and exploration of the issues involved. Diolch.
Diolch, Ddirprwy Lywydd. Rwy'n croesawu'r cyfle i gyfrannu at y ddadl hon heddiw'n fawr, er fy mod yn gresynu ei bod yn ddadl mor fyr, ac ni fyddaf yn gallu mynd i'r afael â'r holl faterion a godwyd, o ystyried faint o amser a fydd gennyf. Rwyf am roi eiliad, er hynny, i sôn am yr ysgol gynradd yn Wrecsam a ddaeth i ganu'r gân rap fwyaf gwych i mi am bwysigrwydd morwellt, a rhoi llyfr hardd i mi, llyfr rwy'n trefnu gyda'r Comisiwn i'w arddangos yn yr Oriel, fel y gall cymaint o bobl â phosibl ei weld. Roeddent yn angerddol iawn, fel y dylent fod, am forwellt.
Felly, mae Cymru Sero Net, ein cynllun ar gyfer lleihau allyriadau, a gyhoeddwyd ddwy flynedd yn ôl, yn cydnabod y rôl y gallai morfa heli a morwellt ei chwarae yn ein gwaith cyllidebu carbon, drwy'r rhestr nwyon tŷ gwydr, ond mae hefyd yn mynd ymhellach i archwilio'r rôl y gall y rheini a chynefinoedd carbon glas eraill ei chwarae yn addasu a lliniaru effeithiau newid hinsawdd. Mae llawer o'r cynefinoedd eisoes yn rhan o'n rhwydwaith o ardaloedd morol gwarchodedig ac rydym yn cymryd camau i'w diogelu a'u hadfer. Yn ogystal ag ariannu'r gwaith o reoli'r rhwydwaith ac ymchwil i lywio ein blaenoriaethau, rydym hefyd yn cyflawni camau cadwraeth newydd sylweddol, ac un enghraifft o hynny yw dyrannu dros £1 filiwn i'r gwaith yng Nglanfa Fawr Tredelerch, a fydd yn ailsefydlu cynefin morfa heli yno. A soniodd Joyce am un o'r lleill, yn Llŷn, ac rwy'n arbennig o hoff ohono. Byddwn yn datblygu'r dull hwn drwy gyflawni ymrwymiad ein rhaglen lywodraethu i ariannu camau wedi'u targedu i adfer morwellt, morfeydd heli a chynefinoedd arfordirol eraill sy'n gyfoethog o ran eu natur a'u carbon.
Ar hyn o bryd, rydym yn ymgysylltu â phartneriaid i ystyried y dulliau mwyaf effeithiol o gyflawni'r cynllun ac adeiladu'r capasiti sydd ei angen i gyflawni ar raddfa fawr ac yn gyflym. Felly, rydym yn cefnogi tri phwynt cyntaf cynnig yr wrthblaid, sy'n nodi rhai o'r heriau a'r cyfleoedd sy'n ymwneud â chynefinoedd morol ac atafaelu carbon. Mae ein gwelliant yn ceisio cryfhau'r galwadau am weithredu yn sylweddol. Mae'r cynnig ar welliant y Llywodraeth yn dangos y gwahaniaeth rhwng yr ymagwedd at sero net a ffefrir gan y Blaid Geidwadol a'r dull sy'n cael ei ddefnyddio gan Lywodraeth Cymru ar hyn o bryd. Ar hyn o bryd, nid yw ein llwybr sero net yn ystyried carbon glas, ac felly, wrth i'n dealltwriaeth o'r wyddoniaeth wella, bydd yn cyflwyno cyfleoedd newydd ar gyfer cyfrannu at ymdrechion byd-eang i gyfyngu ar effaith cynhesu byd-eang.
Nid yw hyn yn fater o naill ai/neu—nid yw'n ddewis rhwng morwellt a choedwigoedd. Mae Aelodau'r wrthblaid yn fy holi'n rheolaidd—. Os oes cyfleoedd newydd ar gyfer defnyddio ynni gwynt ar y môr, a ydynt yn credu bod hyn yn golygu y dylem ddefnyddio llai o wynt ar y tir? Nid yw'n fater o naill ai/neu; mae angen yr holl gyfleoedd arnom inni allu cyrraedd sero net, nid rhai ohonynt, na chanolbwyntio ar un yn fwy na'r llall. Os oes cyfleoedd newydd i gyflymu datgarboneiddio yng Nghymru er mwyn cyfrannu at ymdrechion byd-eang, dylai'r rhain fod yn gyfleoedd i fynd ymhellach, nid yn esgus dros lai o uchelgais mewn meysydd eraill. Felly, rwy'n galw ar bob Aelod o'r Senedd sy'n cytuno bod y cyfleoedd newydd mewn perthynas â charbon glas yn golygu bod yn rhaid inni wneud mwy yn hytrach na llai i bleidleisio o blaid gwelliant y Llywodraeth heddiw.
Mae cynnig yr wrthblaid hefyd yn galw am gynlluniau. Rwy'n cytuno bod y rhain yn rhan bwysig o gyflawni nodau polisi, ond ynddynt eu hunain, ni fydd iechyd y cefnforoedd yn cael ei adfer â geiriau yn unig. Dyna pam fod gwelliant y Llywodraeth yn adlewyrchu ein hymrwymiad i ariannu adferiad carbon glas, gan ganolbwyntio ar gynefinoedd pwysig ar hyd yr arfordir. Yn ogystal â helpu bywyd gwyllt, mae'r cynefinoedd hyn, sy'n bwysig yn fyd-eang, yn rhan o dreftadaeth naturiol Cymru, ac fel y mae prosiectau sydd eisoes ar waith yng Nghymru wedi'i ddangos, mae modd cyflawni gwelliannau sylweddol pan fo cyrff cyhoeddus, cadwraethwyr, gwyddoniaeth a chymunedau oll yn gweithio gyda'i gilydd, fel y nododd Delyth yn ddefnyddiol iawn.
A dylwn ddweud ar y pwynt hwn mai fi yw hyrwyddwr yr wystrys brodorol, Janet; rwy'n ymwybodol iawn o dreftadaeth wystrys Ystumllwynarth. Rwy'n falch iawn o weld ein bod wedi bod yn ailhadu wystrys brodorol ym mae Abertawe, sydd, fel y dywedais yn gynharach mewn ateb i Mike Hedges, wedi cadw ei statws cadwraeth da am flwyddyn arall.
Mae cynnig yr wrthblaid hefyd yn galw am ymagwedd ofodol tuag at gynlluniau morol, ac fel Llywodraeth, rydym wedi ymrwymo i fabwysiadu'r dull hwn yn y ffordd y caiff cynllun morol cenedlaethol Cymru ei roi ar waith. Fodd bynnag, ni all dull gofodol fod ar gyfer un sector yn unig. Mae angen iddo sicrhau defnydd cynaliadwy o'r môr mewn ffyrdd a fydd yn galluogi datblygiad economi wyrddach yng Nghymru, boed hynny mewn ynni, llongau, pysgota neu ddefnyddiau eraill.
Roedd bwlch mawr yn y cynnig gwreiddiol gan iddo fethu ateb y cwestiwn pwysicaf ynghylch cyfrifoldebau dros Ystad y Goron. Nhw yw'r perchnogion a'r rhai sy'n gwneud y penderfyniadau ynglŷn â'r gwaith o reoli gwely'r môr ac ardaloedd sylweddol o arfordir Cymru, ac felly mae ganddynt rôl gwbl allweddol i'w chwarae mewn perthynas â charbon glas. Rydym yn galw ar Lywodraeth y DU i ddatganoli cyfrifoldeb am Ystad y Goron i Gymru, fel sy'n digwydd yn yr Alban. Yn amlwg, nid yw'r Blaid Geidwadol yn cytuno â ni, ond mewn gwirionedd, ni allant egluro pam. Rwy'n synnu eich bod yn dweud ei fod yn tynnu sylw oddi ar y nod. Sut y gall rheolaeth dros wely'r môr yr ydych am i ni ei wella fod yn tynnu sylw pan mai dyna'r union beth a fyddai'n caniatáu inni wneud hynny?
Ddirprwy Lywydd, rwyf wedi bod yn fyr yn fy sylwadau, o ystyried yr amser a neilltuwyd i'r ddadl, ond rwy'n gobeithio ei fod yn bwnc y byddwn yn dychwelyd ato, gan ei fod yn haeddu dadl lawer hirach i archwilio'r materion dan sylw. Diolch.
Galwaf ar Samuel Kurtz i ymateb i'r ddadl.
I call on Samuel Kurtz to reply to the debate.
Diolch yn fawr, Dirprwy Lywydd, and I'm grateful for the two minutes that you've given me in closing this debate, and the Minister made reference to the shortness of this debate, and I look forward to the Government bringing forward a debate in their own time on this topic.
But, in opening the debate, Janet Finch-Saunders spoke eloquently, set the scene for the need for blue carbon seagrass and why this is really important to this. In my own constituency, I've got Atlantic Edge Oysters, and I went out to visit, and, when the tide was out right on Angle peninsula, you're able to see the seagrass there, as it's laying limp waiting for the sea to roll back in and bring it back up to life. it's an incredible things to see, this tiny little piece of seagrass in these sea meadows, and how much carbon they can actually sequester.
I think what's really important—and, really, the way that I visualise things—is the fact that seagrass can capture carbon up to 35 times the rate of tropical rainforests. Surely we should be jumping up and down about the importance of seagrass in our fight to sequester more carbon. So, I think this debate is a fantastic starting point in trying to get this discussion up and running.
Delyth Jewell spoke eloquently as well with regards to the wider habitat element of seagrass and blue carbon, and what that brings in terms of our biodiversity and the demands we have and we make of ourselves and policy makers in restoring these habitats, so that biodiversity has an opportunity to flourish and thrive once again, and I think that's incredibly important.
And that's a point that Joyce Watson continued in her observations and contributions, and she made reference to the Welsh Government's water regulations and the 170 kg per hectare nitrate limit. I agree we need to look at pollution within our waterways holistically, across all sectors. I would only point and highlight to Joyce Watson the evidence from the Irish environmental agency, which has introduced nitrate vulnerable zone regulations in Ireland, where they've seen spikes of nitrates because of these regulations actually making the problems worse, because, as soon as those problems exist, the eutrophication—Gareth gave us a very eloquent science lesson on eutrophication and the scientific process around that—. Those limits actually can cause detrimental effects to our waterways.
I can see that the clock has gone red, so, to not test the Deputy Presiding Officer's patience any further, I will just suggest that all Members support our motion. Thank you.
Diolch yn fawr, Ddirprwy Lywydd, ac rwy'n ddiolchgar am y ddau funud rydych wedi'u rhoi i mi i gau'r ddadl hon, a chyfeiriodd y Gweinidog at ba mor fyr yw'r ddadl hon, ac edrychaf ymlaen at weld y Llywodraeth yn cyflwyno dadl ar y pwnc hwn yn eu hamser eu hunain.
Ond wrth agor y ddadl, siaradodd Janet Finch-Saunders yn huawdl, gan ddisgrifio'r angen am forwellt carbon glas a pham fod hyn yn bwysig iawn. Mae gennyf gwmni Atlantic Edge Oysters yn fy etholaeth i, ac euthum i ymweld â hwy, a phan oedd y llanw allan ar benrhyn Angle, gallech weld y morwellt yno, ac mae'n gorwedd yn llipa wrth aros i'r môr ddod yn ôl i mewn a'i atgyfodi. Mae'n beth anhygoel i'w weld, y darn bach hwn o forwellt yn y dolydd môr hyn, a faint o garbon y gallant ei atafaelu.
Credaf mai'r hyn sy'n wirioneddol bwysig—ac mewn gwirionedd, y ffordd rwy'n amgyffred pethau—yw'r ffaith bod morwellt yn gallu dal carbon hyd at 35 gwaith yn gyflymach na fforestydd glaw trofannol. Dylem fod yn dathlu pwysigrwydd morwellt yn ein brwydr i atafaelu rhagor o garbon. Felly, credaf fod y ddadl hon yn fan cychwyn gwych i geisio sbarduno'r drafodaeth hon.
Siaradodd Delyth Jewell yn huawdl hefyd ynglŷn ag elfen gynefin ehangach morwellt a charbon glas, a'r hyn a ddaw yn sgil hynny o ran ein bioamrywiaeth a'r gofynion sydd gennym i ni ein hunain a llunwyr polisi o ran adfer y cynefinoedd hyn, fel bod bioamrywiaeth yn cael cyfle i ffynnu unwaith eto, a chredaf fod hynny'n hynod o bwysig.
A dyna bwynt y parhaodd Joyce Watson ag ef yn ei sylwadau a'i chyfraniadau, a chyfeiriodd at reoliadau dŵr Llywodraeth Cymru a'r terfyn nitradau o 170 kg yr hectar. Cytunaf fod angen inni edrych ar lygredd o fewn ein dyfrffyrdd mewn ffordd gyfannol, ar draws pob sector. Hoffwn dynnu sylw Joyce Watson at y dystiolaeth gan asiantaeth amgylcheddol Iwerddon, sydd wedi cyflwyno rheoliadau parthau perygl nitradau yn Iwerddon, lle maent wedi gweld cynnydd mewn lefelau nitradau am fod y rheoliadau hyn wedi gwaethygu'r problemau mewn gwirionedd, oherwydd, cyn gynted ag y mae'r problemau hynny'n bodoli, mae'r ewtroffigedd—rhoddodd Gareth wers wyddoniaeth huawdl iawn i ni ar ewtroffigedd a'r broses wyddonol sydd ynghlwm wrth hynny—. Gall y terfynau hynny gael effeithiau niweidiol ar ein dyfrffyrdd.
Gallaf weld bod y cloc wedi troi'n goch, felly, i osgoi profi amynedd y Dirprwy Lywydd ymhellach, awgrymaf fod yr holl Aelodau'n cefnogi ein cynnig. Diolch.
Y cwestiwn yw: a ddylid derbyn y cynnig heb ei ddiwygio? A oes unrhyw Aelod yn gwrthwynebu? [Gwrthwynebiad.] Oes. Felly, gohiriaf y bleidlais ar y cynnig tan y cyfnod pleidleisio.
The proposal is to agree the motion without amendment. Does any Member object? [Objection.] Yes. I will therefore defer voting under this item until voting time.
Gohiriwyd y pleidleisio tan y cyfnod pleidleisio.
Voting deferred until voting time.
Detholwyd y gwelliannau canlynol: gwelliant 1 yn enw Darren Millar, a gwelliant 2 yn enw Lesley Griffiths. Os derbynnir gwelliant 1, caiff gwelliant 2 ei ddad-ddethol.
The following amendments have been selected: amendment 1 in the name of Darren Millar, and amendment 2 in the name of Lesley Griffiths. If amendment 1 is agreed, amendment 2 will be deselected.
Eitem 8 heddiw yw dadl Plaid Cymru, datganoli adnoddau dŵr yn llawn, a galwaf ar Delyth Jewell i wneud y cynnig.
Item 8 this afternoon is the Plaid Cymru debate, full devolution of water resources, and I call on Delyth Jewell to move the motion.
Cynnig NDM8279 Siân Gwenllian
Cynnig bod y Senedd:
1. Yn credu:
a) y dylai Cymru gael rheolaeth lawn dros ei hadnoddau dŵr, gan gynnwys y gallu i reoleiddio trosglwyddo dŵr y tu hwnt i'w ffiniau;
b) y byddai datganoli pwerau dros ddŵr ymhellach hefyd yn galluogi Gweinidogion Cymru i fynd i'r afael â'r broblem o ollyngiadau carthion i afonydd a moroedd Cymru mewn modd mwy effeithlon; ac
c) bod preifateiddio dŵr yn fodel aflwyddiannus sydd wedi arwain at filiau cynyddol a dirywiad trychinebus yn ansawdd dŵr Cymru.
2. Yn galw ar Lywodraeth Cymru i:
a) gofyn yn ffurfiol am gychwyn adran 48(1) o Ddeddf Cymru 2017, a fyddai'n alinio cymhwysedd deddfwriaethol y Senedd dros ddŵr yn llawn â ffin ddaearyddol Cymru;
b) gofyn yn ffurfiol am ragor o bwerau dros drwyddedu ymgymerwyr carthion yng Nghymru; ac
c) cyflwyno deddfwriaeth o fewn tymor presennol y Senedd i osod cynlluniau draenio a rheoli dŵr gwastraff cwmnïau dŵr yng Nghymru ar sail statudol.
Motion NDM8279 Siân Gwenllian
To propose that the Senedd:
1. Believes that:
a) Wales should have full control over its water resources, including the ability to regulate the transfer of water beyond its borders;
b) further devolution of powers over water would also enable Welsh Ministers to more effectively address the problem of sewage discharges into Wales's rivers and seas; and
c) the privatisation of water is a failed model that has led to soaring bills and a disastrous deterioration in the quality of Wales's water.
2. Calls on the Welsh Government to:
a) formally request the enactment of section 48(1) of the Wales Act 2017, which would fully align the Senedd’s legislative competence over water with the geographic boundary of Wales;
b) formally request further powers over the licensing of sewage undertakers in Wales; and
c) introduce legislation within the current Senedd term to place the drainage and wastewater management plans of water companies in Wales on a statutory footing.
Cynigiwyd y cynnig.
Motion moved.
Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd. Our debate this evening has many courses flowing into it. Their torrents direct us towards our future as a nation even as they are propelled by our past. There's the tide of territorial integrity; the constitutional right that, I believe, Wales should have powers over our resources; and our motion makes clear that Wales should have the ability to regulate the transfer of water beyond our borders.
Then there are other tributaries that feed into the urgency of this debate—the climate and nature emergencies, those founding, grounding forces, the swell of which could yet overwhelm us if we don't change our own course and convert our society's obsession with carbon fuels into greener ways of sustaining our lives.
And there is, beneath all this, an undercurrent that governs how we see this debate, and that current stems from our past, our awareness, so close to the surface, of how Wales's modern politics, and certainly the national question, sprung to prominence because of water and the drowning of Capel Celyn in the 1960s. It is perhaps impossible to discuss water in a Welsh context without an awareness of what went on before. So many streams of thought, Dirprwy Lywydd, flow into this one debate. But let's begin at the source.
Diolch, Ddirprwy Lywydd. Mae gan ein dadl heno sawl ffrwd yn llifo i mewn iddi. Mae eu cenllif yn ein cyfeirio tuag at ein dyfodol fel cenedl hyd yn oed wrth iddynt gael eu llywio gan ein gorffennol. Mae yna lanw o uniondeb tiriogaethol; yr hawl gyfansoddiadol y credaf y dylai Cymru gael pwerau dros ein hadnoddau; ac mae ein cynnig yn ei gwneud yn glir y dylai Cymru fod â'r gallu i reoleiddio trosglwyddo dŵr y tu hwnt i'n ffiniau.
Wedyn ceir llednentydd eraill sy'n bwydo i mewn i bwysigrwydd y ddadl hon—yr argyfyngau hinsawdd a natur, y grymoedd sylfaenol, hanfodol hynny, y gallai eu hymchwydd ein llethu eto os na wnawn newid ein cwrs ein hunain a throsi obsesiwn ein cymdeithas â thanwydd carbon yn ffyrdd gwyrddach o gynnal ein bywydau.
Ac o dan hyn oll, ceir isgerrynt sy'n llywodraethu sut y gwelwn y ddadl hon, ac mae'r isgerrynt hynny'n deillio o'n gorffennol, ein hymwybyddiaeth, mor agos at yr wyneb, o sut mae gwleidyddiaeth fodern Cymru, a'r cwestiwn cenedlaethol yn sicr, wedi dod i amlygrwydd oherwydd dŵr a boddi Capel Celyn yn y 1960au. Efallai ei bod yn amhosibl trafod dŵr mewn cyd-destun Cymreig heb ymwybyddiaeth o'r hyn a ddigwyddodd o'r blaen. Mae cymaint o lif meddyliau, Ddirprwy Lywydd, yn llifo i mewn i'r un ddadl hon. Ond gadewch inni ddechrau yn y tarddiad.
Achos mae gan ddŵr swyn dros seice neu ysbryd ein cenedl, ac mae unrhyw ddadl am ddŵr yn y Senedd hon—Senedd, byddai rhai yn dadlau, a ddaeth i fodolaeth achos y sŵn am Dryweryn—mae’n amhosibl i gynnal dadl heb sôn am yr hanes chwerw hwnnw.
Mae yna rai enwau llefydd yn hanes Cymru sy’n dal yn fwy na synau’n unig, sy’n dal dicter a brad cymunedau cyfan; enwau llefydd sydd wedi dod yn symbolau, achos diflannodd y llefydd a oedd yn cael eu cynrychioli. Ac anafwyd mwy na daearyddiaeth gyda’u diflaniad. Fel dywed Harri Webb yn ei gerdd, 'Colli Iaith', arweiniodd at
'Colli tir a cholli tyddyn, / Colli Elan a Thryweryn; / Colli Claerwen a Llanwddyn / A’r wlad i gyd dan ddŵr llyn.'
Elan. Tryweryn. Enwau, geiriau y mae galw arnom i’w cofio nhw. Enwau sy’n dwyn i gof gyflafan ddiwylliannol, yr ymdeimlad o analluogrwydd. Geiriau sy’n cyfleu colled. Nid cyflenwad neu gyfleustod yn unig ydy dŵr yng Nghymru.
Because water casts a spell over the psyche or spirit of our nation, and any debate on water in this Senedd—a Senedd, some might argue, that came into being because of the row over Tryweryn—is impossible without mentioning that bitter history.
There are some place names in Wales’s history that have a greater resonance, that speak of anger and the betrayal of entire communities; place names that have become symbols, because the places represented have since disappeared. And more than geography was harmed by their loss. As Harri Webb tells us in his poem, 'Colli Iaith':
'Losing land and losing homesteads, / Losing Elan and Tryweryn; / Losing Claerwen and Llanwyddyn / And the whole country beneath a lake's water.'
Elan. Tryweryn. Names, words that we are called upon to remember. Names that bring to mind cultural destruction, that feeling of incapacitation. Words that express loss. Water in Wales is not just a supply or utility.
Water has played a part in our industry. Our waters washed the coal clutched from the earth by our grandfathers' hands, but industry stained the waterways too—those mountain streams dyed black with soot, the legacy of mining that still desecrates our dales and valleys. And though the mines have closed, mostly, the grubbiness persists. Our society's obsession with deregulation and monetising our natural world, those profligate, wasteful tendencies of late-day capitalism, have left us with rivers that are dying, sewage that seeps into our streams, whole habitats and ecosystems poisoned by human filth. Hence our motion calling for Welsh Ministers to be given powers to address the scourge of sewage being discharged into our rivers and seas, those waters that are dying.
Yes, the Dŵr Cymru model produces better results. Forty-four per cent of our rivers are in a good ecological state, compared with only 14 per cent in England. Most of Wales is not governed by the whims of what will please shareholders. But not all. It is not enough. And Dŵr Cymru still has to operate in this messy broader system that puts privatised, commercial companies alongside their model, a system that does not respect national borders. The privatisation of water is a failed model. It has led to soaring bills and a terrible deterioration in the quality of our water supply. We must let another current take its course instead.
Because the consequences of what we decide to do about water, they don't just have an impact on the Wales of today. They will have an impact on future generations. That need for water will only become more urgent in the years ahead, but as we gaze towards our planet's uncertain future, bogged down by those twin emergencies plaguing our climate and our natural world, that future is dependent on water. With investment, millions will be able to live without access to oil, but none will survive without water.
So, what is standing in our way? Why have these powers over water not been devolved to Wales? Well, the turn of this tide is curious. As things stand, Wales's powers to pass laws over water don't align with our boundaries on a map. That means that we can't legislate to stop or control a situation where a private company based largely in England seeks to transfer water out of a reservoir in Wales because it's cheaper to do that than to fix pipes that are leaking.
Now, the Silk commission recommended ending that anomaly, matching those powers over water to our borders, as is already the case in Scotland and Northern Ireland. But section 48 of the Wales Act 2017, which would allow this to happen, has not been enacted, and it would appear that this is because Welsh Ministers have yet to trigger the mechanism. That is important, because the power to commence the provisions is conferred on the Secretary of State, meaning that we have to make a formal request.
Now, under a freedom of information request, we have obtained a copy of a letter dated 3 December 2018, from the then environment Minister to the then DEFRA Parliamentary Undersecretary and Secretary of State for Wales, which, as Adam will set out, I'm sure, requested a postponement and to reschedule the date for when these powers would be transferred. Though the delay in question was meant to push back the implementation of the alignment to spring of last year, that obviously didn't take place. As far as we can tell, there has been no further discussion between the Governments. There has certainly not been a clarification from either Government as to when it will happen, if at all.
Now, I hope that the Minister, in responding to the debate, can throw some light on why this happened and why this transfer of powers seems to be on indefinite hold. This is not simply a matter for constitutional anoraks. The consequences of this indecision can be quantified. Wales's water infrastructure is extensive. We have no less than 1,592 registered large reservoirs, and 243 billion litres of water can be extracted from Welsh sources every year for use in England. We seem to have deliberately absented ourselves from having any say over it.
Let's keep in mind that this debate has a national significance. It pertains to where we have come from as a nation, and to where we are headed. I'm put in mind of what Eliot says in his 'Four Quartets':
'We cannot think of a time that is oceanless / Or of an ocean not littered with wastage / Or of a future that is not liable / Like the past, to have no destination.'
Wales's destination, the current that we will follow, is bound up in this question. The question of water for Wales is about more than pipes or systems. In its glassy surface, we see reflected ourselves, our priorities, how much we really care about the world that we inhabit—those oceans littered with wastage. Water reflects. It shows so much about how we govern and apportion and poison our living world. And, yes, it reflects the losses our nation has suffered. Yes, it tells the story of corruption, of filth, of dereliction from our past. But it is also the source of life, and it is an element that will be vital for our future. Water, water everywhere, nor any drop that is wasted.
Mae dŵr wedi chwarae rhan yn ein diwydiant. Roedd ein dyfroedd yn golchi'r glo a fachwyd o'r ddaear gan ddwylo ein teidiau, ond fe wnaeth diwydiant staenio'r dyfrffyrdd hefyd—y nentydd mynydd a lifwyd yn ddu gan huddygl, gwaddol mwyngloddio sy'n dal i halogi ein dyffrynnoedd a'n cymoedd. Ac er bod y pyllau wedi cau, y rhan fwyaf ohonynt, mae'r bryntni'n parhau. Mae obsesiwn ein cymdeithas gyda dadreoleiddio a moneteiddio ein byd naturiol, tueddiadau anllad, gwastraffus cyfalafiaeth ein dyddiau ni, wedi ein gadael ag afonydd sy'n marw, carthion sy'n treiddio i'n nentydd, cynefinoedd ac ecosystemau cyfan wedi eu gwenwyno gan fudreddi dynol. Felly, mae ein cynnig yn galw am roi pwerau i Weinidogion Cymru fynd i'r afael â malltod carthffosiaeth sy'n cael ei ollwng i'n hafonydd a'n moroedd, y dyfroedd sy'n marw.
Ydy, mae model Dŵr Cymru yn cynhyrchu canlyniadau gwell. Mae 44 y cant o'n hafonydd mewn cyflwr ecolegol da, o'i gymharu â dim ond 14 y cant yn Lloegr. Nid yw'r rhan fwyaf o Gymru'n cael ei llywodraethu gan fympwyon yr hyn a fydd yn plesio cyfranddalwyr. Ond nid i gyd. Nid yw'n ddigon. Ac mae'n rhaid i Dŵr Cymru barhau i weithredu yn y system ehangach flêr hon sy'n gosod cwmnïau masnachol preifat ochr yn ochr â'u model, system nad yw'n parchu ffiniau cenedlaethol. Mae preifateiddio dŵr yn fodel aflwyddiannus. Mae wedi arwain at filiau cynyddol a dirywiad ofnadwy yn ansawdd ein cyflenwad dŵr. Mae'n rhaid inni adael i gerrynt arall ddilyn ei gwrs yn lle hynny.
Oherwydd bydd gan ganlyniadau'r hyn y penderfynwn ei wneud am ddŵr effaith ar fwy na Chymru heddiw yn unig. Byddant yn effeithio ar genedlaethau'r dyfodol. Bydd yr angen am ddŵr yn dyfnhau yn y blynyddoedd i ddod, ond wrth inni edrych tuag at ddyfodol ansicr ein planed, wedi'i lethu gan y ddau argyfwng sy'n bla ar ein hinsawdd a'n byd naturiol, mae'r dyfodol hwnnw'n dibynnu ar ddŵr. Gyda buddsoddiad, bydd miliynau'n gallu byw heb fynediad at olew, ond ni fydd neb yn goroesi heb ddŵr.
Beth sy'n sefyll yn ein ffordd felly? Pam nad yw'r pwerau hyn dros ddŵr wedi'u datganoli i Gymru? Wel, mae troad y llanw hwn yn rhyfedd. Fel y mae pethau, nid yw pwerau Cymru i basio deddfau dros ddŵr yn cyd-fynd â'n ffiniau ar fap. Mae hynny'n golygu na allwn ddeddfu i atal neu reoli sefyllfa lle mae cwmni preifat sydd wedi'i leoli yn Lloegr i raddau helaeth yn ceisio trosglwyddo dŵr allan o gronfa ddŵr yng Nghymru oherwydd ei bod yn rhatach iddo wneud hynny na thrwsio pibellau sy'n gollwng.
Nawr, argymhellodd comisiwn Silk y dylid dod â'r anghysondeb hwnnw i ben, a gwneud i bwerau dros ddŵr gyd-fynd â'n ffiniau, fel sy'n digwydd eisoes yn yr Alban a Gogledd Iwerddon. Ond nid yw adran 48 o Ddeddf Cymru 2017, a fyddai'n caniatáu i hyn ddigwydd, wedi'i roi mewn grym, a byddai'n ymddangos mai'r rheswm am hynny yw bod Gweinidogion Cymru eto i sbarduno'r mecanwaith. Mae hynny'n bwysig, oherwydd rhoddir y pŵer i gychwyn y darpariaethau i'r Ysgrifennydd Gwladol, sy'n golygu bod yn rhaid i ni wneud cais ffurfiol.
Nawr, o dan gais rhyddid gwybodaeth, rydym wedi cael copi o lythyr dyddiedig 3 Rhagfyr 2018, gan Weinidog yr amgylchedd ar y pryd at Is-ysgrifennydd Seneddol DEFRA ac Ysgrifennydd Gwladol Cymru ar y pryd, a oedd, fel y bydd Adam yn nodi rwy'n siŵr, wedi gofyn am ohirio ac aildrefnu'r dyddiad ar gyfer pryd y byddai'r pwerau hyn yn cael eu trosglwyddo. Er bod yr oedi dan sylw i fod i ohirio gweithredu'r aliniad tan wanwyn y llynedd, ni ddigwyddodd hynny wrth gwrs. Hyd y gallwn ddweud, ni fu trafodaeth bellach rhwng y Llywodraethau. Yn sicr, ni chafwyd eglurhad gan y naill Lywodraeth na'r llall ynglŷn â phryd y bydd yn digwydd, os o gwbl.
Nawr, wrth ymateb i'r ddadl rwy'n gobeithio y gall y Gweinidog daflu rhywfaint o oleuni ar pam y digwyddodd hyn a pham mae'n ymddangos bod trosglwyddo'r pwerau wedi ei ohirio am gyfnod amhenodol. Nid mater ar gyfer anoracs cyfansoddiadol yn unig yw hwn. Mae modd mesur canlyniadau'r penderfyniad hwn. Mae seilwaith dŵr Cymru yn helaeth. Mae gennym gymaint â 1,592 o gronfeydd dŵr mawr cofrestredig, a gellir tynnu 243 biliwn litr o ddŵr o ffynonellau Cymreig bob blwyddyn i'w ddefnyddio yn Lloegr. Mae'n ymddangos ein bod wedi atal ein hunain yn fwriadol rhag cael unrhyw lais dros y mater.
Gadewch inni gofio bod arwyddocâd cenedlaethol i'r ddadl hon. Mae'n ymwneud ag o ble y daethom fel cenedl, ac i ble rydym yn mynd. Caf fy atgoffa o'r hyn y mae Eliot yn ei ddweud yn ei 'Four Quartets':
'Ni allwn ddychmygu adeg heb y môr / Neu fôr nad yw'n frith o wastraff / Neu ddyfodol nad yw'n debygol / Fel y gorffennol, o fod heb gyrchfan.'
Mae cyrchfan Cymru, y cerrynt y byddwn yn ei ddilyn, ynghlwm wrth y cwestiwn hwn. Mae cwestiwn dŵr i Gymru yn ymwneud â mwy na phibellau neu systemau. Ar ei wyneb gloyw, gwelwn adlewyrchiad ohonom ein hunain, ein blaenoriaethau, faint rydym yn malio am y byd rydym yn byw ynddo mewn gwirionedd—y cefnforoedd hynny sy'n llawn o wastraff. Mae dŵr yn adlewyrchu. Mae'n dangos cymaint am y ffordd y llywodraethwn ac y trefnwn ac y gwenwynwn ein byd byw. Ac ydy, mae'n adlewyrchu'r colledion y mae ein cenedl wedi'u dioddef. Ydy, mae'n adrodd hanes llygredd, aflendid, esgeulustod ein gorffennol. Ond mae hefyd yn ffynhonnell bywyd, ac mae'n elfen a fydd yn allweddol ar gyfer ein dyfodol. Dŵr, dŵr ym mhob man, heb ddiferyn wedi ei wastraffu.
Daeth y Llywydd i’r Gadair.
The Llywydd took the Chair.
Rwy'n edrych ymlaen at glywed barn eraill yn ein dadl.
I look forward to hearing the views of others in our debate.
Rwyf wedi dethol y ddau welliant i'r cynnig. Os derbynnir gwelliant 1, bydd gwelliant 2 yn cael ei ddad-ddethol. Rwy'n galw ar Janet Finch-Saunders i gynnig gwelliant 1, a gyflwynwyd yn enw Darren Millar. Janet Finch-Saunders.
I have selected the two amendments to the motion. If amendment 1 is agreed, amendment 2 will be deselected. I call on Janet Finch-Saunders to move amendment 1, tabled in the name of Darren Millar. Janet Finch-Saunders.
Gwelliant 1—Darren Millar
Dileu popeth a rhoi yn ei le:
Cynnig bod y Senedd:
1. Yn nodi bod cyfrifoldeb dros reoli llygredd wedi'i ddatganoli i Gymru.
2. Yn gresynu at y ffaith bod 25 y cant o'r oriau a gofnodwyd o ollyngiadau carthion yng Nghymru a Lloegr yn 2022 wedi mynd i ddyfrffyrdd Cymru.
3. Yn galw ar Lywodraeth Cymru i:
a) diweddaru'r cynllun gweithredu i fynd i'r afael â gollyngiadau carthion i afonydd, llynnoedd a moroedd Cymru;
b) cyhoeddi adroddiad tasglu Llywodraeth Cymru ar orlifiadau stormydd; ac
c) gweithredu targedau statudol i gwmnïau dŵr wella gorlifiadau stormydd.
Amendment 1—Darren Millar
Delete all and replace with:
To propose that the Senedd:
1. Notes that responsibility for pollution management is devolved to Wales.
2. Regrets that in 2022, 25 per cent of recorded hours of sewage discharges in England and Wales were into Welsh waterways.
3. Calls upon the Welsh Government to:
a) update the action plan to address sewage discharges into Welsh rivers, lakes and seas;
b) publish the Welsh Government’s taskforce report on storm overflows; and
c) implement statutory targets for water companies to improve storm overflows.
Cynigiwyd gwelliant 1.
Amendment 1 moved.
Diolch, Llywydd. Now, I know that both Plaid Cymru and Welsh Labour here are stating that the privatisation of water is a failed model. With anything like this, it's an interesting idea. But of course, Dŵr Cymru customers face the second highest water bills across England and Wales. While the average bill across England and Wales for the year 2023-24 is £448, the average bill in Wales is £499. There were over 83,000 sewage spills in Wales in 2022, accounting for 569 hours of spillage in Wales. And, the water company has been fined hundreds of thousands of pounds due to sewage spillage. However, we believe that there could be better enforcement. One such instance, however, was in 2021, when the company was fined £180,000 due to sewage discharge resulting in the largest fish-kill incident in north Wales for several years.
Diolch, Lywydd. Nawr, gwn fod Plaid Cymru a Llafur Cymru yma yn datgan bod preifateiddio dŵr yn fodel aflwyddiannus. Gydag unrhyw beth fel hyn, mae'n syniad diddorol. Ond wrth gwrs, cwsmeriaid Dŵr Cymru sy'n wynebu'r biliau dŵr ail uchaf trwy Gymru a Lloegr. Er mai'r bil cyfartalog ledled Cymru a Lloegr ar gyfer y flwyddyn 2023-24 yw £448, y bil cyfartalog yng Nghymru yw £499. Roedd dros 83,000 o ollyngiadau carthion yng Nghymru yn 2022, gyda 569 awr o ollyngiadau yng Nghymru. Ac mae'r cwmni dŵr wedi cael dirwyon o gannoedd o filoedd o bunnoedd oherwydd gollyngiadau carthion. Fodd bynnag, credwn y gallai fod gwell gorfodaeth. Roedd un achos o'r fath yn 2021, pan gafodd y cwmni ddirwy o £180,000 oherwydd achos o ollwng carthion a arweiniodd at yr achos gwaethaf o ladd pysgod yng ngogledd Cymru ers sawl blwyddyn.
However, I don't believe that privatisation is the problem, and I made it clear to the Senedd yesterday that there needs to be more and stronger enforcement by Natural Resources Wales. This leadership role for Natural Resources Wales should be coming from this Welsh Government. Also, the model is delivering positive change. Welsh Water's business operating model has allowed them to bring forward over £100 million of additional investment that will directly benefit our rivers, but this will be by 2025. No other organisation is investing at that level and pace to try and improve river water quality in Wales.
Since around 2010, Dŵr Cymru's bills have been on a downward trajectory. Glas Cymru is a single-purpose company, formed to own, finance and manage Welsh Water. It is a company limited by guarantee, and, because it has no shareholders, any financial surpluses are retained—I've spoken too much today—retained for the benefit of Welsh Water's customers. Results of Cardiff University's economic impact assessment of the Glas model shows a significant increase in jobs, value added to the Welsh economy and expenditure retained here in Wales. It is supporting over 9,000 jobs, and, for every £1 million-worth of direct GVA, a further £1.27 million of GVA is supported elsewhere in our economy. Sixty-two per cent of supply chain expenditure is retained here in Wales, compared to 41 per cent in 2013.
The evidence couldn't be clearer: privatisation is not failing; it is actually delivering for some positive results. So, what we need to see is this Welsh Government co-operate with Welsh Water to help fast-track some of the schemes they have under way. Examples do include Welsh Water needing to invest significantly to improve storm overflows, with £140 million being invested by 2025 and a further £420 million planned from 2025 to 2030; and, investing an additional £60 million specifically to reduce phosphorus in the five failing special areas of conservation rivers in their own operating area. And there are RainScape sustainable urban drainage schemes in Llanelli, Cardiff and Llandudno, where nature-based solutions are used to remove or slow the amount of surface water entering our sewers and reducing how often they overflow. Greater co-operation is what is required; more devolution is not.
You could introduce legislation, Minister, within the current Senedd term. We believe the Welsh Government has failed to legislate to tackle water pollution. In contrast, the UK Government, under the Environment Act 2021, introduced England-only provisions to reduce discharge from storm overflows. The UK Government has also set stringent targets for water companies to meet. So, by 2035, water companies will have to improve all storm overflows discharging in or near designated bathing water and improve 75 per cent of overflows discharging to high-priority nature sites. By 2050, the above will extend to all remaining storm overflows, regardless of location. We need that same aspiration from you. Indeed, we're still waiting for the report on storm overflows that should have been published in March 2023.
Finally, I will address the point about section 48(1) of the Wales Act 2017. Under this provision, the Senedd's legislative competence will cover any water and sewerage in Wales even if the undertaker's areas are mainly located within England. It was the Welsh Government that requested to postpone the enactment of those water provisions. In a letter addressed to the UK Government in 2018, the Welsh Government said the process of aligning the Welsh Parliament's legislative competence to geographical boundaries was complex. Reasons such as amending legislation, statutory plans and resolving complex licensing and regulatory issues were cited by this Welsh Government. In response to a recent question on the matter, the Secretary of State for Wales said the UK Government will work with their Welsh counterparts to agree a timetable that works best for both Governments and the water industry.
The way I see it, it's quite clear: what Plaid Cymru and Labour are calling for is extremely complex and could have a detrimental impact on Wales. Scrapping privatisation and introducing more powers to this Welsh Government will only cause the response to our water crisis to be less effective. Plaid Cymru and Labour often cite further devolution and nationalisation—
Fodd bynnag, nid wyf yn credu mai preifateiddio yw'r broblem, a dywedais yn glir wrth y Senedd ddoe fod angen mwy o orfodaeth, a gorfodaeth gryfach gan Cyfoeth Naturiol Cymru. Dylai'r rôl arweinyddiaeth ar gyfer Cyfoeth Naturiol Cymru ddod gan Lywodraeth Cymru. Hefyd, mae'r model yn sicrhau newid cadarnhaol. Mae model gweithredu busnes Dŵr Cymru wedi caniatáu iddynt gyflwyno dros £100 miliwn o fuddsoddiad ychwanegol a fydd o fudd uniongyrchol i'n hafonydd, ond bydd hyn yn digwydd erbyn 2025. Nid oes yr un sefydliad arall yn buddsoddi ar y lefel a'r cyflymder hwnnw i geisio gwella ansawdd dŵr afonydd yng Nghymru.
Ers tua 2010, mae biliau Dŵr Cymru wedi bod yn gostwng. Cwmni un pwrpas yw Glas Cymru, a ffurfiwyd i fod yn berchen ar, ariannu a rheoli Dŵr Cymru. Mae'n gwmni cyfyngedig drwy warant, ac oherwydd nad oes ganddo gyfranddalwyr, cedwir unrhyw arian dros ben er budd cwsmeriaid Dŵr Cymru. Mae canlyniadau asesiad effaith economaidd Prifysgol Caerdydd o fodel Glas yn dangos cynnydd sylweddol mewn swyddi, gwerth ychwanegol i economi Cymru a gwariant wedi'i gadw yma yng Nghymru. Mae'n cefnogi dros 9,000 o swyddi, ac am bob £1 filiwn o werth ychwanegol gros uniongyrchol, mae £1.27 miliwn arall o werth ychwanegol gros yn cael ei gadw mewn mannau eraill yn ein heconomi. Mae 62 y cant o wariant y gadwyn gyflenwi yn cael ei gadw yma yng Nghymru, o'i gymharu â 41 y cant yn 2013.
Ni allai'r dystiolaeth fod yn gliriach: nid yw preifateiddio'n aflwyddiannus; mae'n cyflawni canlyniadau cadarnhaol. Felly, yr hyn y mae angen i ni ei weld yw Llywodraeth Cymru yn cydweithredu â Dŵr Cymru i helpu i gyflymu rhai o'r cynlluniau sydd ganddynt ar y gweill. Mae enghreifftiau'n cynnwys yr angen i Dŵr Cymru fuddsoddi'n sylweddol i wella gorlifoedd storm, gyda £140 miliwn yn cael ei fuddsoddi erbyn 2025 a £420 miliwn arall wedi'i gynllunio rhwng 2025 a 2030; a buddsoddi £60 miliwn ychwanegol yn benodol i leihau ffosfforws yn y pum afon ardal cadwraeth arbennig sy'n methu yn eu hardal weithredu eu hunain. A cheir cynlluniau draenio cynaliadwy trefol GlawLif yn Llanelli, Caerdydd a Llandudno, lle defnyddir datrysiadau sy'n seiliedig ar natur i dynnu neu arafu faint o ddŵr wyneb sy'n mynd i mewn i'n carthffosydd a chyfyngu ar ba mor aml y maent yn gorlifo. Mwy o gydweithredu sydd ei angen, nid mwy o ddatganoli.
Weinidog, gallech gyflwyno deddfwriaeth yn nhymor y Senedd bresennol. Credwn fod Llywodraeth Cymru wedi methu deddfu i fynd i'r afael â llygredd dŵr. Mewn cyferbyniad, cyflwynodd Llywodraeth y DU, o dan Ddeddf yr Amgylchedd 2021, ddarpariaethau ar gyfer Lloegr yn unig i leihau gorlifoedd storm. Mae Llywodraeth y DU hefyd wedi gosod targedau llym i gwmnïau dŵr eu cyrraedd. Felly, erbyn 2035, bydd yn rhaid i gwmnïau dŵr wella'r holl orlifoedd storm sy'n gollwng i mewn i ddŵr ymdrochi dynodedig neu'n agos ato, a gwella 75 y cant o orlifoedd sy'n gollwng i safleoedd natur â blaenoriaeth uchel. Erbyn 2050, bydd hynny'n ehangu i gynnwys yr holl orlifoedd storm sy'n weddill, lle bynnag y maent. Rydym angen gweld yr un dyhead gennych chi. Yn wir, rydym yn dal i aros am yr adroddiad ar orlifoedd storm a ddylai fod wedi cael ei gyhoeddi ym mis Mawrth 2023.
Yn olaf, rwyf am fynd i'r afael â'r pwynt ynghylch adran 48(1) o Ddeddf Cymru 2017. O dan y ddarpariaeth hon, bydd cymhwysedd deddfwriaethol y Senedd yn cwmpasu unrhyw ddŵr a charthffosiaeth yng Nghymru hyd yn oed os yw ardaloedd y gweithredwr wedi'u lleoli'n bennaf yn Lloegr. Llywodraeth Cymru a ofynnodd am ohirio deddfu'r darpariaethau dŵr hynny. Mewn llythyr wedi'i gyfeirio at Lywodraeth y DU yn 2018, dywedodd Llywodraeth Cymru fod y broses o sicrhau bod cymhwysedd deddfwriaethol Senedd Cymru yn cyd-fynd â ffiniau daearyddol yn gymhleth. Nododd Llywodraeth Cymru resymau fel diwygio deddfwriaeth, cynlluniau statudol a datrys materion trwyddedu a rheoleiddio cymhleth. Mewn ymateb i gwestiwn diweddar ar y mater, dywedodd Ysgrifennydd Gwladol Cymru y bydd Llywodraeth y DU yn gweithio gyda'u cymheiriaid yng Nghymru i gytuno ar amserlen sy'n gweithio orau i'r ddwy Lywodraeth a'r diwydiant dŵr.
Fel rwy'n ei weld, mae'n eithaf amlwg: mae'r hyn y mae Plaid Cymru a Llafur yn galw amdano yn hynod gymhleth a gallai gael effaith niweidiol ar Gymru. Bydd dileu preifateiddio a chyflwyno mwy o bwerau i Lywodraeth Cymru yn achosi i'r ymateb i'n hargyfwng dŵr fod yn llai effeithiol. Mae Plaid Cymru a Llafur yn aml yn siarad am ddatganoli a gwladoli pellach—
I've been very, very generous.
Rwyf wedi bod yn hael iawn.
Oh, you have.
O, do.
Yes, I know, unexpected as it is for you, Janet Finch-Saunders.
Ie, rwy'n gwybod, er mor annisgwyl yw hynny i chi, Janet Finch-Saunders.
Thank you. The reality in this case is that it is wrong. Thank you. Diolch.
Diolch. Y gwir amdani yn yr achos hwn yw ei fod yn anghywir. Diolch.
Adam Price. O, na; yn gyntaf, sori, os caf i ofyn i'r Gweinidog Newid Hinsawdd i gynnig yn ffurfiol welliant 2.
Adam Price. Oh, no; first of all, sorry, if I may ask the Minister for Climate Change to move formally amendment 2.
Gwelliant 2—Lesley Griffiths
Ychwanegu is-bwyntiau newydd ar ddiwedd bwynt 2:
defnyddio ei phwerau i’w gwneud yn ofynnol bod pob buddsoddiad strategol mewn seilwaith dŵr sy’n effeithio ar Gymru, gan gynnwys trosglwyddiadau, yn dod â budd i gymunedau ac amgylchedd naturiol Cymru.
gweithio gyda phartneriaid i ddiogelu dyfodol adnoddau dŵr Cymru trwy fynd i’r afael â phob gwasgfa ar yr adnoddau hynny, sef o ddŵr gwastraff, dŵr ffo trefol, camgysylltiadau, llygredd gwledig gwasgaredig, newidiadau ffisegol, hen lofeydd a rhywogaethau goresgynnol.
neilltuo cyllid ychwanegol i’r Byrddau Rheoli Maethynnau i brysuro’u gwaith o ddiogelu adnoddau dŵr.
neilltuo cyllid ychwanegol ar gyfer grantiau cyfalaf i ffermwyr iddynt allu gwella seilwaith sy’n diogelu adnoddau dŵr.
cynyddu’r defnydd o ddata gwyddoniaeth y dinesydd er mwyn i ni allu deall yn well y gwasgfeydd ar adnoddau dŵr.
datblygu dulliau ar lefel dalgylch gyfan ar gyfer cydsynio a gwelliannau strategol wrth reoli adnoddau dŵr cenedlaethol.
Amendment 2—Lesley Griffiths
Add as new sub-points at the end of point 2:
use its powers to require all strategic water infrastructure investment affecting Wales, including any transfers, to benefit Wales's communities and natural environment.
work with partners to secure the future of Welsh water resources by addressing all major pressures on them, namely from wastewater, urban runoff, misconnections, diffuse rural pollution, physical modifications, abandoned mines and invasive species.
provide additional funding to Nutrient Management Boards to accelerate their work in safeguarding water resources.
provide additional funding for capital grants for farmers to make infrastructure improvements that protect water resources.
increase the use of citizen science data in expanding our understanding of the pressures on water resources.
develop whole catchment consenting and strategic improvement approaches to national water resource management.
Cynigiwyd gwelliant 2.
Amendment 2 moved.
Formally. Diolch yn fawr.
Yn ffurfiol. Diolch yn fawr.
Adam Price.
Adam Price.
Diolch, Llywydd. Water, that most precious resource, is one that we in Wales have in great abundance, but it's one that we get precious little for, and we're not alone in that. The Global Commission on the Economics of Water has just produced its report earlier this year that concluded that the world as a whole is currently underpricing water. Fresh water is mostly treated as free, or almost free, rather than the precious resource that it is, and its price to the customer is based on the cost of getting the water to the customer, not the value of the actual water itself, and this is leading to environmental degradation worldwide. It also means that money is transferred from the poorer communities that are generally the sources of fresh water to the large companies in the richer regions that benefit from exploiting this undervalued resource.
That's been the history of water in Wales for over a century—since the nineteenth century, certainly. It’s unsustainable: it’s unsustainable environmentally, it’s unsustainable economically, and it’s unsustainable politically as well. It’s likely to change anyway because of climate change, pollution, the destruction of ecosystems; fresh water in this century is already becoming a scarce resource, and that will continue. We're seeing already the emergence of local, regional and global water markets; water is beginning to be traded across borders, not just the Wales-England border, and the price is rising as a result of that.
That's the future, but what's happening now in Wales? Currently, up to 320 million litres per day are exported from the Elan valley by Dŵr Cymru to Severn Trent for use primarily in the English midlands. United Utilities can extract up to 252 million litres per day from Lake Vyrnwy to supply customers in Chester and the north-west of England. It’s that resource that Thames Water are potentially looking to divert to the south-east of England. United Utilities also use Llyn Celyn to extract, at various points along the River Dee, up to 660 million litres by regulating the level of the water, and 50 million of that is directly extracted on the Welsh side of the border. So, depending on the level of demand on any given day, around 600 million litres of water are typically exported from Wales.
To put that in some perspective, the total demand for water within Wales is around 800 million litres per day. Wales gets a negligible amount in return for this level of water exported. For the over 100 million cu m of water exported annually just from the Elan valley, Welsh Water gets just over £7 million—that's equal to 7p per cubic metre—when Severn Trent, the recipient of that water, charges its own customers 20 times that. Allowing Welsh Water to charge Severn Trent what it charges its own customers would bring in many hundreds of millions of pounds, potentially, and as the global price of water rises, then that may become not just feasible, but necessary. But even adding just a fairly conservative 50p water export levy to the total amount of water exported from Wales would bring in an extra £100 million a year. That would mean that the cost would still be below that of comparable alternatives like desalination. That money could be used for a variety of pressing purposes in Wales, whether it's combating water pollution or water poverty. And that's the great irony: this par excellence wet country has rising water poverty because we are currently prevented in law, because of the lack of powers, from actually having a fair price for the water we export, while the companies that receive the water make excessive profits for their shareholders based on that essentially cost-price-only export of water.
Some of the details are actually bizarre. Privatisation is part of this, of course, because before Welsh Water was privatised, the Conservative Government ensured that essentially the hands of Welsh Water would be tied, so there's an interlocking set of agreements that mean that Welsh Water can't actually make any profit off the water that they export. There's even, bizarrely, an escrow account in Jersey of all places accruing money for the aqueduct that Severn Trent are meant to have sold to Welsh Water, but they haven't yet signed, and they don't have to sign it—I've got the details here—until 21 years after the last grandchild of George V dies. And that's Prince Richard, Duke of Gloucester, if you didn't know—positively feudal. There's over £100 million in that escrow account that could be used for the benefit of the people of Wales. That's the legacy that we have from the Conservative Government. That's why we need the powers here to Wales, so we can have a fair price for the export of that water, and reinvest that for the benefit of the people and the environment of Wales.
Diolch, Lywydd. Mae dŵr, yr adnodd hynod werthfawr hwnnw, yn un y mae gennym lawer iawn ohono yng Nghymru, ond mae'n un nad ydym yn cael fawr ddim amdano, ac nid ydym ar ein pennau ein hunain yn hynny. Mae'r Comisiwn Byd-eang ar Economeg Dŵr newydd gynhyrchu ei adroddiad yn gynharach eleni a ddaeth i'r casgliad fod y byd yn gyfan ar hyn o bryd yn gosod pris rhy isel ar ddŵr. Caiff dŵr ffres ei drin fel rhywbeth rhad ac am ddim i raddau helaeth, neu bron yn rhad ac am ddim, yn hytrach na'r adnodd gwerthfawr ydyw, ac mae ei bris i'r cwsmer yn seiliedig ar gost cael y dŵr i'r cwsmer, nid gwerth y dŵr ei hun, sy'n arwain at ddirywio amgylcheddol ym mhob cwr o'r byd. Mae hefyd yn golygu bod arian yn cael ei drosglwyddo o'r cymunedau tlotach, sef tarddleoedd dŵr ffres fel arfer, i'r cwmnïau mawr yn y rhanbarthau cyfoethocach sy'n elwa o ecsbloetio'r adnodd hwn na chaiff ei werthfawrogi'n ddigonol.
Dyna fu hanes dŵr yng Nghymru ers dros ganrif—ers y bedwaredd ganrif ar bymtheg, yn sicr. Mae'n anghynaladwy: mae'n anghynaladwy yn amgylcheddol, mae'n anghynaladwy yn economaidd, ac mae'n anghynaladwy yn wleidyddol hefyd. Mae'n debygol o newid beth bynnag oherwydd newid hinsawdd, llygredd, dinistrio ecosystemau; mae dŵr ffres yn y ganrif hon eisoes yn dod yn adnodd prin, a bydd hynny'n parhau. Rydym eisoes yn gweld marchnadoedd dŵr lleol, rhanbarthol a byd-eang yn dod i'r amlwg; mae dŵr yn dechrau cael ei fasnachu ar draws ffiniau, nid y ffin rhwng Cymru a Lloegr yn unig, ac mae'r pris yn codi o ganlyniad i hynny.
Dyna'r dyfodol, ond beth sy'n digwydd nawr yng Nghymru? Ar hyn o bryd, mae hyd at 320 miliwn litr y dydd yn cael eu hallforio o gwm Elan gan Dŵr Cymru i Severn Trent i'w ddefnyddio'n bennaf yng nghanolbarth Lloegr. Gall United Utilities dynnu hyd at 252 miliwn litr y dydd o Lyn Efyrnwy i gyflenwi cwsmeriaid yng Nghaer a gogledd-orllewin Lloegr. Dyma'r adnodd y mae Thames Water yn edrych ar y posibilrwydd o'i ddargyfeirio i dde-ddwyrain Lloegr. Mae United Utilities hefyd yn defnyddio Llyn Celyn i echdynnu, ar wahanol bwyntiau ar hyd Afon Dyfrdwy, hyd at 660 miliwn litr drwy reoleiddio lefel y dŵr, ac mae 50 miliwn o hwnnw'n cael ei dynnu'n uniongyrchol ar ochr Cymru i'r ffin. Felly, yn dibynnu ar lefel y galw ar unrhyw ddiwrnod penodol, mae tua 600 miliwn litr o ddŵr fel arfer yn cael eu hallforio o Gymru.
I roi rhyw fath o bersbectif i hynny, cyfanswm y galw am ddŵr yng Nghymru yw tua 800 miliwn litr y dydd. Pitw iawn yw'r swm a gaiff Cymru yn gyfnewid am y lefel o ddŵr sy'n cael ei allforio. Am y dros 100 miliwn cu m o ddŵr sy'n cael ei allforio bob blwyddyn o gwm Elan yn unig, mae Dŵr Cymru yn cael ychydig dros £7 miliwn—sy'n cyfateb i 7c y metr ciwbig—pan fo Severn Trent, sy'n derbyn y dŵr hwnnw, yn codi tâl o 20 gwaith hynny ar eu cwsmeriaid eu hunain. Gallai caniatáu i Dŵr Cymru godi tâl ar Severn Trent fel yr hyn y maent yn ei godi ar eu cwsmeriaid eu hunain ddod â channoedd o filiynau o bunnoedd i mewn, ac wrth i bris byd-eang dŵr godi, gallai hynny ddod nid yn unig yn ymarferol, ond yn angenrheidiol. Ond byddai ychwanegu ardoll allforio dŵr eithaf ceidwadol o 50c at gyfanswm y dŵr sy'n cael ei allforio o Gymru yn dod â £100 miliwn y flwyddyn ychwanegol i mewn. Byddai hynny'n golygu y byddai'r gost yn dal yn is na dewisiadau amgen fel dihalwyno. Gellid defnyddio'r arian hwnnw at amrywiaeth o ddibenion pwysig yng Nghymru, boed yn ymladd llygredd dŵr neu dlodi dŵr. A dyna'r eironi mawr: mae gan y wlad wleb iawn hon dlodi dŵr cynyddol oherwydd ein bod yn cael ein hatal yn y gyfraith ar hyn o bryd, oherwydd diffyg pwerau, rhag cael pris teg am y dŵr a allforiwn, tra bod y cwmnïau sy'n derbyn y dŵr yn gwneud elw gormodol i'w cyfranddalwyr yn seiliedig ar allforio dŵr ar sail cost yn unig i bob pwrpas.
Mae rhai o'r manylion yn hurt mewn gwirionedd. Mae preifateiddio yn rhan o hyn, wrth gwrs, oherwydd cyn i Dŵr Cymru gael ei breifateiddio, sicrhaodd y Llywodraeth Geidwadol y byddai dwylo Dŵr Cymru wedi eu clymu i bob pwrpas, felly ceir cyfres o gytundebau cydgysylltiedig sy'n golygu na all Dŵr Cymru wneud unrhyw elw o'r dŵr y maent yn ei allforio. Yn fwy hurt byth, mae yna gyfrif esgrow yn Jersey o bob man yn cronni arian ar gyfer y draphont ddŵr y mae Severn Trent i fod wedi'i gwerthu i Dŵr Cymru, ond nid ydynt wedi arwyddo eto, ac nid oes raid iddynt arwyddo—mae gennyf y manylion yma—tan 21 mlynedd ar ôl i ŵyr olaf Siôr V farw. A'r Tywysog Richard, Dug Caerloyw, yw hwnnw os nad oeddech chi'n gwybod—hollol ffiwdal. Mae dros £100 miliwn yn y cyfrif esgrow hwnnw y gellid ei ddefnyddio er budd pobl Cymru. Dyna yw gwaddol y Llywodraeth Geidwadol i ni. Dyna pam ein bod angen y pwerau yma i Gymru, fel y gallwn gael pris teg am allforio'r dŵr hwnnw, a'i ailfuddsoddi er budd pobl ac amgylchedd Cymru.
Three hundred and eighty-five billion litres of water are taken from the county I live in, Powys, a year: as we've heard, 133 billion litres from the Elan valley, and 252 million litres from Lake Vyrnwy. And I'm pleased to say that the Liberal Democrat-controlled Powys council are looking into this. They want to do something about this. They have written to the Welsh Government and to the UK Government, asking for permission for a small levy that means that they can charge for the water taken out of Powys into England, which will then be reinvested in Powys into our energy supplies, but also to tackle the climate emergency. That's practically what could happen. I welcome the debate on this really vital issue, and just to add to Janet Finch-Saunders's list of parties that support the devolution of Welsh water, please put the Welsh Liberal Democrats on that list as well.
We must ensure that our communities and our natural environment benefit from the infrastructure decisions in Wales, especially where it leads to the transfer of natural resources outside of Wales. It is surely only right that we have authority and oversight of our natural resources. We shouldn't tolerate the ongoing extraction of our natural resources and natural wealth for others to financially benefit from. If a provider doesn't operate mainly or wholly in Wales, the Senedd actually has no tools to take action. We have fewer powers to ensure that all providers are working towards the same shared goals in terms of the quality of our rivers and our seas.
Welsh water bills are amongst the highest in the UK, and yet we are seeing billions of litres of water transferred out of Wales per year just for pennies. Lake Vyrnwy, in Powys again, was drowned. Llanwddyn, the village that was there, is a community that is lost right now, and that was for the benefit of people outside of Wales. Welsh ratepayers are also paying to clean up decades of underinvestment in our sewage treatment works, as we know from debates earlier in the Senedd.
Just commenting on the amendments, I welcome the collaborative approach outlined in the Government amendment, but in the Conservative amendment I would have liked more support on the actions around storm overflows and sewage discharges. Pollution is a devolved matter, but the amendment sidesteps the critical issue of Wales having full control over our own natural resources.
This debate is well overdue, and I thank Plaid Cymru for bringing it forward. This is a discussion we've been having for the best part of a decade and, as more of us become more aware of the rapidly deteriorating state of our rivers, I think the Senedd, now, should have the full authority over our water resources. Thank you. Diolch yn fawr iawn.
Mae 385 biliwn litr o ddŵr yn cael eu cymryd o'r sir rwy'n byw ynddi, Powys, bob blwyddyn: fel y clywsom, 133 biliwn litr o gwm Elan, a 252 miliwn litr o Lyn Efyrnwy. Ac rwy'n falch o ddweud bod cyngor Powys a reolir gan y Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol yn ymchwilio i hyn. Maent eisiau gwneud rhywbeth amdano. Maent wedi ysgrifennu at Lywodraeth Cymru ac at Lywodraeth y DU, yn gofyn am ganiatâd i godi ardoll fach sy'n golygu y gallant godi tâl am y dŵr sy'n cael ei dynnu allan o Bowys i Loegr, a fydd wedyn yn cael ei ailfuddsoddi ym Mhowys yn ein cyflenwadau ynni, ond hefyd i fynd i'r afael â'r argyfwng hinsawdd. Yn ymarferol, dyna allai ddigwydd. Rwy'n croesawu'r ddadl ar y mater hollbwysig hwn, ac os caf ychwanegu at restr Janet Finch-Saunders o bleidiau sy'n cefnogi datganoli dŵr Cymru, rhowch Ddemocratiaid Rhyddfrydol Cymru ar y rhestr honno hefyd os gwelwch yn dda.
Rhaid inni sicrhau bod ein cymunedau a'n hamgylchedd naturiol yn elwa o'r penderfyniadau seilwaith yng Nghymru, yn enwedig lle mae'n arwain at drosglwyddo adnoddau naturiol y tu allan i Gymru. Mae'n sicr yn iawn fod gennym awdurdod a goruchwyliaeth dros ein hadnoddau naturiol. Ni ddylem oddef yr echdynnu parhaus ar ein hadnoddau naturiol a'n cyfoeth naturiol er mwyn i eraill allu elwa'n ariannol ohonynt. Os nad yw darparwr yn gweithredu'n bennaf neu'n gyfan gwbl yng Nghymru, nid oes gan y Senedd unrhyw offer i weithredu. Mae gennym lai o bwerau i sicrhau bod pob darparwr yn gweithio tuag at yr un nodau a rennir o ran ansawdd ein hafonydd a'n moroedd.
Mae biliau dŵr Cymru ymhlith yr uchaf yn y DU, ac eto rydym yn gweld biliynau o litrau o ddŵr yn cael eu trosglwyddo o Gymru bob blwyddyn am geiniogau'n unig. Boddwyd Llyn Efyrnwy, ym Mhowys. Mae Llanwddyn, y pentref a oedd yno, yn gymuned goll erbyn hyn, a hynny er budd pobl y tu allan i Gymru. Mae trethdalwyr Cymru hefyd yn talu i lanhau degawdau o danfuddsoddi yn ein gwaith trin carthion, fel y gwyddom o ddadleuon yn gynharach yn y Senedd.
Os caf sôn am y gwelliannau, rwy'n croesawu'r dull cydweithredol a amlinellir yng ngwelliant y Llywodraeth, ond yn y gwelliant Ceidwadol byddwn wedi hoffi mwy o gefnogaeth ar y camau gweithredu ar orlifoedd storm a gollyngiadau carthffosiaeth. Mae llygredd yn fater datganoledig, ond mae'r gwelliant yn osgoi mater hollbwysig yr angen i Gymru gael rheolaeth lawn ar ein hadnoddau naturiol ein hunain.
Mae'n hen bryd cael y ddadl hon, a diolch i Blaid Cymru am ei chyflwyno. Mae hon yn drafodaeth y buom yn ei chael ers y rhan orau o ddegawd ac wrth i fwy ohonom ddod yn fwy ymwybodol o gyflwr ein hafonydd sy'n dirywio'n gyflym, rwy'n credu nawr y dylai'r Senedd gael awdurdod llawn dros ein hadnoddau dŵr. Diolch yn fawr iawn.
Hoffwn i ganolbwyntio, yn fy nghyfraniad i, ar y pwynt yn ein cynnig sy'n cyfeirio at sut y mae preifateiddio dŵr wedi arwain at filiau cynyddol, ac effaith hyn ar lawer o aelwydydd Cymru sydd eisoes yn cael trafferthion economaidd. Ac fel soniodd Adam Price, mae'n baradocs trist, eironig, er bod Cymru'n allforiwr net o ddŵr, bod cwsmeriaid Cymru yn wynebu rhai o’r biliau dŵr uchaf, ac mae nifer bryderus a chynyddol o aelwydydd Cymru mewn tlodi dŵr.
Y bil dŵr cyfartalog ar gyfer cwsmeriaid Dŵr Cymru yw £499, cynnydd o bron i 3 y cant ers y llynedd, tra bod cwsmeriaid Hafren Dyfrdwy wedi gweld cynnydd o 12.4 y cant i gyfartaledd o £372. Cwsmeriaid Dŵr Cymru sy'n talu'r ail bris uchaf am eu biliau ar draws Cymru a Lloegr. A gallai biliau nodweddiadol fod hyd yn oed yn uwch, gan fod taliadau'n dibynnu ar nifer fawr o ffactorau.
Yn ei ganllawiau ar gyfer proses adolygiad prisiau 2024, diffiniodd Ofwat dlodi dŵr fel aelwydydd yn gwario mwy na 5 y cant o'u hincwm, ar ôl costau tai, ar eu bil dŵr a dŵr gwastraff. Yn ôl y metrig yma, mae tua 114,000 o aelwydydd Cymru mewn tlodi dŵr—dros 8 y cant o holl aelwydydd Cymru. Mae hyn yn cymharu â 6.3 y cant o holl aelwydydd Lloegr. Yn y cyfamser mae 354,000 o aelwydydd Cymru—27.2 y cant o holl aelwydydd ein cenedl—yn gwario mwy na 3 y cant o'u hincwm ar filiau dŵr. Mae hyn hefyd yn gyfran llawer uwch nag yn Lloegr, ar 17.4 y cant. Does dim arwydd mwy damniol o system economaidd gwbl annheg na'r ffaith bod cymaint o bobl yng Nghymru yn ei chael hi'n anodd i fforddio hanfodion mwyaf sylfaenol bywyd, a phrin fod unrhyw beth yn fwy elfennol a sylfaenol na dŵr.
Yn fy rhanbarth fy hun yng Ngorllewin De Cymru, mae Cyngor ar Bopeth wedi gweld cynnydd o 11 y cant yn y bobl sy'n dod atyn nhw am gyngor ar ddyledion dŵr a charthffosiaeth. Ymhlith y rheini, y swm cyfartalog oedd yn ddyledus oedd £1,278. Dylid hefyd ystyried y ffigurau yma i gyd yng nghyd-destun ehangach yr argyfwng costau byw. Mae prisiau bwyd wedi cyfrannu at gynnydd o 69 y cant mewn ansicrwydd bwyd yng Nghymru dros y flwyddyn ddiwethaf, sydd yn ei dro yn cyfrannu at 30 y cant o bobl Cymru'n dweud bod eu sefyllfa ariannol yn cael effaith negyddol ar eu hiechyd corfforol. A go brin bod angen dweud hyn, ond eto mae gwir angen dweud hyn: mae hyn yn cael effaith trychinebus ar iechyd meddwl pobl.
Yn ôl ymchwil costau byw a gyhoeddwyd gan Ofwat, roedd traean o gwsmeriaid dŵr yng Nghymru a Lloegr yn disgwyl i'w sefyllfa ariannol waethygu yn y flwyddyn i ddod, ac o'r rheini, roedden nhw i gyd yn dweud eu bod nhw'n teimlo'n hollol ddigalon am eu sefyllfa. Felly mae biliau'n rhy uchel.
Mae tariffau cymdeithasol ar gael, ond mae meini prawf a lefelau cymorth yn wahanol ar draws cwmnïau yng Nghymru. Mae tariff HelpU Dŵr Cymru, er enghraifft, yn helpu aelwydydd incwm isel drwy roi cap ar y swm rhaid iddyn nhw ei dalu am eu dŵr, ond mae'n rhaid ichi fodloni nifer o feini prawf, gan gynnwys bod yn gymwys ar gyfer budd-dal prawf modd.
Mae ymchwil ar y cyd gan Cyngor y Defnyddwyr Dŵr ac Ofwat yn dangos, er bod mwy na thraean o gwsmeriaid yn cael trafferth talu biliau dŵr yn aml, dim ond 4 y cant ddywedodd eu bod wedi cael cymorth ariannol gan eu cwmni dŵr yn y flwyddyn flaenorol. Rhaid cydnabod bod lefel sylweddol o gefnogaeth yn cael ei gynnig gan Dŵr Cymru, sydd wedi helpu bron i 146,000 o unigolion yn y flwyddyn ddiwethaf. Dyma'r gyfradd uchaf o'r holl gwmnïau dŵr yng Nghymru a Lloegr, ac eto’n tanlinellu manteision y model dielw, sy’n caniatáu i ddifidendau gael eu hail-fuddsoddi er budd cwsmeriaid yn hytrach na chyfranddalwyr.
Mae Cyngor y Defnyddwyr Dŵr wedi bod yn ymgyrchu ers blynyddoedd am un cynllun fforddiadwyedd dŵr ar gyfer Cymru a Lloegr, i’w sefydlu gan Lywodraeth y Deyrnas Gyfunol, wedi’i ariannu’n deg, a fyddai'n medru cefnogi aelwydydd Cymru sy’n cael trafferth gyda'u biliau. Gallai cynllun fforddiadwyedd dŵr sengl o'r fath godi rhyw 114,000 o aelwydydd mas o dlodi dŵr yng Nghymru. Mae DEFRA yn dal i gynllunio i ymgynghori ar ddyfodol mesurau fforddiadwyedd, ond dyw e ddim bellach yn bwriadu symud ymlaen â chynlluniau ar gyfer cynllun o'r fath.
Yn y cyfamser, mae Cyngor y Defnyddwyr Dŵr wedi gweithio ar fesurau interim posib i helpu i fynd i'r afael â fforddiadwyedd dŵr. Maen nhw'n aros am gyfarwyddyd pellach gan y Gweinidogion dros gyfiawnder cymdeithasol a newid hinsawdd ar y gwaith yma, felly byddwn yn gwerthfawrogi diweddariad ar hynny'r prynhawn yma.
Ond, Lywydd, pam fod yn rhaid inni aros? Pam fod yn rhaid i ni erfyn ar Lywodraeth San Steffan a disgwyl am fisoedd, os nad blynyddoedd, am atebion sydd byth yn ein cyrraedd ni? Pam fod yn rhaid inni fod mewn sefyllfa o fod angen lliniaru ar dlodi dŵr yn y lle cyntaf? Mae'n gywilyddus y dylai cymaint o'n cyd-ddinasyddion orfod ei chael hi'n anodd i dalu am un o angenrheidiau mwyaf elfennol bywyd. Er lles pobl Cymru, felly, yn enwedig y rhai ar incwm is, dylid rhoi rheolaeth lawn ar ddŵr dan berchnogaeth gyhoeddus dan ofal y Llywodraeth hon fel y gallwn greu system deg i bawb.
In my contribution, I'd like to focus on the point in our motion that refers to the way that the privatisation of water has led to increased bills, and the impact that this has on many households in Wales that are already facing economic difficulties. And as Adam Price mentioned, it is a sad paradox, ironic indeed, that although Wales is a net exporter of water, customers in Wales face some of the highest water bills, and a concerning and increasing number of households in Wales are in water poverty.
The average water bill for Dŵr Cymru customers is £499, an increase of almost 3 per cent since last year, whilst customers of Severn Trent have seen an increase of 12.4 per cent to a bill of £372 on average. Dŵr Cymru customers are paying the second highest price for their bills across Wales and England. And these significant bills could be even higher, as payments depend on many factors.
In its guidance for the price review process in 2024, Ofwat defined water poverty as households spending more than 5 per cent of their income, after housing costs, on their combined water and sewerage bills. According to this metric, around 114,000 households in Wales are in water poverty—over 8 per cent of all households in Wales. This compares to 6.3 per cent of all households in England. In the meantime, 354,000 households in Wales—27.2 per cent of all households in our nation—spend more than 3 per cent of their income on water bills. This too is a far higher proportion than in England, at 17.4 per cent. There is no more damning signifier of an entirely unfair economic system than the fact that so many people in Wales find it difficult to afford to pay for one of the most basic essentials of life, and there is surely nothing much more essential than water.
In my own region of South Wales West, Citizens Advice has seen an increase of 11 per cent in the people who approach them for advice on water and sewerage debt. Amongst those, the average debt was £1,278. We should also consider these figures in the wider context of the cost-of-living crisis. Food prices have contributed to an increase of 69 per cent in food insecurity in Wales over the past year, which has in turn contributed to 30 per cent of the people of Wales reporting that their financial situation is having a negative effect on their physical health. And it probably goes without saying, although we do need to say it: this is having a detrimental and disastrous impact on people’s mental health.
According to research on the cost of living published by Ofwat, a third of water customers in Wales and England expect their financial situation to get worse in the coming year, and they all said that this is causing a great deal of distress about their situation. So, bills are too high.
Social tariffs are available, but the eligibility criteria and support levels differ across companies in Wales. Dŵr Cymru’s HelpU tariff, for example, helps low-income households by capping the amount that they pay for their water, but a number of eligibility criteria must be met, including being eligible for means-tested benefits.
Joint research undertaken by the Consumer Council for Water and Ofwat found that although more than a third of customers are finding it difficult to pay their bills on a regular basis, only 4 per cent said that they received financial support from their water company in the previous year. We must acknowledge that a significant level of support is being offered to customers by Dŵr Cymru, which has helped almost 146,000 individuals in the past year. This was the highest proportion among all water companies in Wales and England, and again it underlines the benefits of the not-for-profit model, which allows dividends to be reinvested for the benefit of customers rather than shareholders.
The Consumer Council for Water has been campaigning for many years for one water affordability scheme for Wales and England, a single scheme, to be established by the UK Government, fairly funded and able to support households in Wales that find it difficult to pay their water bills. Such a single water affordability scheme of this kind could lift approximately 114,000 households out of water poverty in Wales. DEFRA is still planning a consultation on the future of affordability measures, but it no longer intends to move forward with plans for a single water affordability scheme.
In the meantime, the Consumer Council for Water has been working on interim measures to help tackle water affordability issues. They're awaiting further direction from the Ministers for social justice and climate change on this work, so I would welcome an update from the Minister on this this afternoon.
But, Llywydd, why must we wait? Why must we urge the Westminster Government and wait for months, if not years, for answers that never reach us? Why must we be in the position of having to mitigate water poverty in the first place? It's shameful that so many of our fellow citizens find it difficult to pay for one of the most fundamental essentials for life. For the sake of the people of Wales, therefore, particularly those on lower incomes, we must place full control over water in public ownership under the care of this Government so that we can create a fair system for everyone.
Hoffwn i ddechrau fy nghyfraniad i'r prynhawn yma drwy danlinellu pa mor bwysig yw dŵr a symboliaeth cronfeydd dŵr i'r rhanbarth dwi'n ei chynrychioli. Yng nghanolbarth a gorllewin Cymru, mae gwleidyddiaeth, diwylliant a chof cenedl yn parhau i gael eu trwblu gan ysbrydion cymunedau coll megis Cwm Elan, Llanwddyn, ac, wrth gwrs, Capel Celyn, i enwi dim ond rhai.
Yng ngeiriau anfarwol y canwr Huw Jones,
'Dyma'r dŵr sy'n drymach nag unrhyw garreg fedd',
ac mae’r pentrefi diflanedig hyn a’r dŵr aflonydd sydd yn eu gorchuddio wedi tyfu’n gofebau o’r math o anghyfiawnder ac ecsbloetiaeth mae ein cymunedau wedi eu dioddef mewn perthynas â dŵr dros y degawdau. A, Weinidog, nid codi hen grachen yw hyn er mwyn cynhyrfu dyfroedd emosiynol, ond mynegiant gweledol o hen glwyfau sydd ar agor o hyd.
I'd like to begin my contribution this afternoon by emphasising the importance of water and the symbolism of reservoirs to the region that I represent in mid and west Wales. Politics, culture, and indeed the national psyche continue to be haunted by the ghost of lost communities such as the Elan Valley, Llanwddyn, and, of course, Capel Celyn, to name but a few.
In the enduring words of singer Huw Jones,
'This is the water that weighs heavier than any tombstone',
and these lost villages and the water that has drowned them have become commemorations of the kinds of exploitations and injustices that our communities have suffered in relation to water over decades. And, Minister, this isn't scaremongering or pulling at emotional heartstrings, but the visual expression of those old wounds that have yet to heal.
I’d now like to turn to an issue that underlines the case for far greater legislative control of our water resources, namely the deteriorating quality of our rivers and other waterways due to the negligence of water companies.
Fewer than 45 per cent of our rivers are currently classified as being in a 'good' ecological state. At the root of this issue is the outdated nature of our combined sewerage network, which has virtually remained unchanged since the time of Victoria. Recent research headed by Professor Peter Hammond of the UK Centre for Ecology and Hydrology estimates that 11 billion litres of raw sewage were discharged across Wales and England by only 30 water company treatment works in 2020 alone. Welsh Water’s contribution in this respect was the equivalent of 55 Olympic swimming pools’ worth of sewage.
Based on event duration monitoring data, which record the length of combined storm overflow spills, five Welsh constituencies were in the top 10 of UK constituencies by the number of hours of spills in 2022. Five of those are in the region I represent—Carmarthen East and Dinefwr being the worst, but the list also includes Preseli Pembrokeshire, Dwyfor Meirionydd, Ceredigion and Brecon and Radnorshire.
So, there is a glaring need therefore for water companies to be made fully accountable for their transgressions with sewage spills, but unfortunately this is once again an area where the current devolved framework in Wales falls well short of where it needs to be.
The lack of robust devolved powers in this area means that we are at considerable risk of effectively letting polluting water companies off the hook.
Hoffwn droi nawr at fater sy'n tanlinellu'r achos dros lawer mwy o reolaeth ddeddfwriaethol ar ein hadnoddau dŵr, sef y dirywiad yn ansawdd ein hafonydd a dyfrffyrdd eraill oherwydd esgeulustod cwmnïau dŵr.
Ar hyn o bryd, mae llai na 45 y cant o'n hafonydd yn cael eu hystyried yn rhai sydd mewn cyflwr ecolegol 'da'. Wrth wraidd y broblem hon, mae natur hen ffasiwn ein rhwydwaith carthffosiaeth cyfunol, nad yw wedi newid fawr ddim ers oes Fictoria. Mae ymchwil ddiweddar dan arweiniad yr Athro Peter Hammond o Ganolfan Ecoleg a Hydroleg y DU yn amcangyfrif bod 11 biliwn litr o garthion amrwd wedi'u gollwng ledled Cymru a Lloegr gan 30 o weithfeydd trin gwastraff y cwmnïau dŵr yn 2020 yn unig. Roedd cyfraniad Dŵr Cymru yn hyn o beth yn cyfateb i lond 55 pwll nofio Olympaidd o garthion.
Yn seiliedig ar ddata monitro hyd digwyddiadau, sy'n cofnodi hyd y gollyngiadau gorlifoedd storm cyfunol, roedd pum etholaeth yng Nghymru ymhlith y 10 uchaf o etholaethau'r DU o ran nifer yr oriau o ollyngiadau yn 2022. Mae pump o'r rheini yn y rhanbarth rwy'n ei gynrychioli—Dwyrain Caerfyrddin a Dinefwr yw'r gwaethaf, ond mae'r rhestr hefyd yn cynnwys Preseli Sir Benfro, Dwyfor Meirionnydd, Ceredigion a Brycheiniog a Sir Faesyfed.
Felly, mae angen clir i gwmnïau dŵr gael eu gwneud yn gwbl atebol am eu camweddau gyda gollyngiadau carthion, ond yn anffodus mae hwn, unwaith eto, yn faes lle mae'r fframwaith datganoledig presennol yng Nghymru ymhell o ble mae angen iddo fod.
Mae diffyg pwerau datganoledig cadarn yn y maes hwn yn golygu ein bod mewn cryn berygl o adael i gwmnïau dŵr sy'n llygru allu osgoi unrhyw gosbau.
O safbwynt ehangach, Llywydd, mae cyflwr truenus ein hafonydd yn adlewyrchu ffolineb trychinebus preifateiddio dŵr—model methedig sydd, ers ei sefydlu o dan Lywodraeth Thatcher, wedi methu cwsmeriaid a'r amgylchedd fel ei gilydd.
Nid yw'n syndod yn hyn o beth mai Lloegr yw'r unig wlad yn y byd sydd â system ddŵr wedi'i phreifateiddio'n llawn. Wrth gwrs, yma yng Nghymru, mae’r sefyllfa ychydig yn wahanol o ystyried natur ddielw Dŵr Cymru. Ac, ar y pwynt hwn, dwi'n siŵr y bydd y Torïaid, sydd wedi meddwi ar y syniad o breifateiddio, yn dadlau, 'Wel, efallai dyw ein system ni ddim cystal â hynny, ond dyw hi ddim yn waeth na'ch system chwi.' Wel, byddwn i'n ateb gyda thri phwynt allweddol. Yn gyntaf, er nad yw’r sefyllfa yn ein hafonydd yn berffaith o bell ffordd, mae’r methiant i fuddsoddi gan gwmnïau wedi'u preifateiddio yn Lloegr yn golygu mai dim ond 14 y cant o afonydd fanna sydd wedi'u cofnodi fel rhai sydd mewn statws ecolegol da, o gymharu â 45 y cant yng Nghymru. Yn ail, mae'n werth cofio nad yw dalgylch Dŵr Cymru yn cwmpasu Cymru gyfan. Ac yn olaf, ac yn bwysicaf oll, mae'r fframwaith datganoledig presennol ar gyfer Cymru yn golygu bod Dŵr Cymru yn gweithredu, mewn gwirionedd, ochr yn ochr ag ecosystem fasnachol sydd wedi'i phreifateiddio yn llawn.
Mae Plaid Cymru, felly, yn credu'n gryf y dylai'r cyflenwad a'r driniaeth o ddŵr yng Nghymru gael ei reoli yn y pen draw gan un corff cyhoeddus wedi'i ddatganoli sy'n cyd-fynd â ffiniau daearyddol ein cenedl ni. Ac i gloi, ydy, mae dŵr yn fater sy'n cyffroi emosiynau cryfion, ond mae dadleuon ymarferol fel gwella ansawdd a rheolaeth a lleihau biliau yn tanlinellu pam mae datganoli dŵr yn fater o'r pwys mwyaf i ni fel cenedl.
Looking at the broader picture, Llywydd, the shameful condition of our rivers reflects the disastrous folly of water privatisation—a failed model that, since it was established under the Thatcher Government, has failed customers and the environment alike.
It's no surprise in this regard that England is the only nation in the world that has a fully privatised water system. Of course, here in Wales, the situation is a little different, given the not-for-profit nature of Welsh Water. And, at this point, I'm sure the Tories, who are wedded to the model of privatisation, would argue that, 'Perhaps our system isn't that great, but it's no worse than your system.' Well, I would respond with three key points. First of all, although the situation in our rivers is not perfect, by any stretch of the imagination, the failure to invest by privatised companies in England means that only 14 per cent of rivers there are registered as being in good ecological status, compared to 45 per cent in Wales. Secondly, it's worth bearing in mind that the Welsh Water catchment doesn't capture the whole of Wales. And finally, and most importantly, the devolved framework that we currently have for Wales means that Welsh Water is operating, in reality, alongside a commercial ecosystem that is fully privatised.
Plaid Cymru therefore strongly believes that water treatment and supply in Wales should be ultimately managed by one public body devolved to Wales that corresponds with the geographical boundaries of our nation. And to conclude, yes, water is an emotional issue, but there are practical arguments, such as improving water quality and management and reducing bills, that highlight why the devolution of water is a matter of the greatest importance for us as a nation.
I hadn't intended to speak in this debate, so I definitely haven't got any statistics to hand, but I think it's a really interesting and important debate, and I fully appreciate that the politics of water is absolutely hardwired into Welsh politics, largely due to Bessie Braddock and her arrogance over the way she dealt with the people of Tryweryn.
And so, we absolutely need to get it right on water, and there's no doubt that we haven't got it right at the moment, because there isn't any incentive at the moment for us to build more reservoirs, because there are a lot of other parts of Britain who are going to suffer serious, serious droughts as a result of the climate change, and I can't see Wales being happy to agree to the huge construction of new reservoirs, unless we were actually going to get some benefit from it. It's a similar problem with wind energy that we're in danger of suffering if we don't get that right.
And I think the important points raised by Sioned Williams about the cost-of-living and how the social tariff is really important to ensure that people do have the price of water capped off, but for many other people, the price of water is just too cheap, because people are chucking it away; they are wasting water. We spend far more per head on water in this country than they do in other European countries, and there has to be some re-evaluation of that because water is the new gold. Because none of us can live without water, and if we haven't got it, well, it is the end. I am really disturbed that, in the last week, I have seen people watering the grass, I have seen people watering their dreaded leylandii hedges with water. I mean, this is completely insane and an absolute abuse of the use of water. So, we have to really think about that to ensure that people appreciate just how important water is to the whole ecosystem and to our very survival.
Of course water should not be privatised because nobody actually produced it; it comes from the sky. Clearly, there need to be charges for the mechanics of getting water from where it's stored to where it needs to be used, but the example that was given of what Severn Trent is charging for our water, compared with what Welsh Water is allowed to charge for it is scandalous; there's no doubt about it. So, I think it's really important that we've had this debate, and I very much look forward to what the Minister is going to say as to how we're going to have a fairer deal for Wales, because the UK Government needs to wake up on this one. If they really want to solve some of the water problems that they are going to have in England, never mind the problems going on in southern Europe on the continent, we are going to need a fairer deal for Wales if we are going to make a contribution to end that crisis.
Nid oeddwn wedi bwriadu siarad yn y ddadl hon, felly yn sicr, nid oes gennyf unrhyw ystadegau wrth law, ond credaf ei bod yn ddadl ddiddorol a phwysig iawn, ac rwy'n llwyr ddeall bod gwleidyddiaeth dŵr yn rhan annatod o wleidyddiaeth Cymru, yn bennaf oherwydd Bessie Braddock a'i haerllugrwydd wrth ymdrin â phobl Tryweryn.
Ac felly, mae gwir angen inni wneud pethau'n iawn mewn perthynas â dŵr, ac nid oes unrhyw amheuaeth nad ydym yn gwneud pethau'n iawn ar hyn o bryd, gan oes unrhyw gymhelliant ar hyn o bryd inni adeiladu mwy o gronfeydd dŵr, oherwydd mae llawer o rannau eraill o Brydain yn mynd i ddioddef sychder difrifol o ganlyniad i newid hinsawdd, ac ni allaf weld Cymru'n barod i gytuno i adeiladu cronfeydd dŵr anferthol newydd, oni bai ein bod yn mynd i gael rhywfaint o fudd ohonynt. Mae'n broblem debyg gydag ynni gwynt, lle rydym mewn perygl o ddioddef os nad ydym yn ei wneud yn iawn.
A chredaf fod y pwyntiau pwysig a wnaed gan Sioned Williams ynglŷn â chostau byw a sut mae'r tariff cymdeithasol yn bwysig iawn i sicrhau bod pobl yn cael pris dŵr wedi'i gapio, ond i lawer o bobl eraill, mae pris dŵr yn rhy rhad, gan fod pobl yn ei daflu i ffwrdd; maent yn gwastraffu dŵr. Rydym yn gwario llawer mwy y pen ar ddŵr yn y wlad hon nag a wnânt mewn gwledydd Ewropeaidd eraill, ac mae'n rhaid ailwerthuso hynny gan mai dŵr yw'r aur newydd. Oherwydd ni all yr un ohonom fyw heb ddŵr, ac os nad oes gennym ddŵr, wel, dyna'r diwedd. Rwy'n bryderus iawn fy mod, yn yr wythnos ddiwethaf, wedi gweld pobl yn dyfrio'r glaswellt, rwyf wedi gweld pobl yn dyfrio eu gwrychoedd leylandii ofnadwy. Mae hyn yn gwbl wallgof ac yn gamddefnydd llwyr o ddŵr. Felly, mae'n rhaid inni feddwl am hynny'n ofalus er mwyn sicrhau bod pobl yn deall pa mor bwysig yw dŵr i'r ecosystem gyfan ac i'n goroesiad.
Wrth gwrs, ni ddylid preifateiddio dŵr am nad oes unrhyw un wedi ei gynhyrchu; mae'n dod o'r awyr. Yn amlwg, mae angen codi tâl am fecanwaith symud dŵr o'r man lle caiff ei storio i'r man lle mae angen ei ddefnyddio, ond mae'r enghraifft a roddwyd o'r hyn y mae Severn Trent yn ei godi am ein dŵr, o gymharu â'r hyn y caniateir i Dŵr Cymru godi amdano, yn warthus; nid oes amheuaeth am hynny. Felly, credaf ei bod yn bwysig iawn ein bod wedi cael y ddadl hon, ac edrychaf ymlaen yn fawr at yr hyn y bydd y Gweinidog yn ei ddweud ynglŷn â sut y cawn fargen decach i Gymru, gan fod angen i Lywodraeth y DU ddeffro mewn perthynas â hyn. Os ydynt o ddifrif eisiau datrys rhai o'r problemau dŵr y byddant yn eu cael yn Lloegr, heb sôn am y problemau sy'n digwydd yn ne Ewrop ar y cyfandir, bydd angen bargen decach i Gymru os ydym am wneud cyfraniad i ddod â'r argyfwng hwnnw i ben.
Y Gweinidog Newid Hinsawdd nawr i gyfrannu i'r ddadl—Julie James.
The Minister for Climate Change now to contribute to the debate—Julie James.
Diolch, Llywydd. I very much welcome the opportunity to respond to this extremely important debate today. There has been a real genuine groundswell of public opinion in favour of better water quality, better water management, and particularly in favour of cleaning up our rivers. And this is a moment in time that we really should embrace. Ministers in the Welsh Government have, for many years, engaged with anglers, and other river users have been ferocious campaigners for better water quality, better water management and better river health. But the breadth of interest now in this topic is like never before, it's pretty much what people want to talk about wherever you go, which is a moment to be grasped. We need to get that momentum to take forward all of the actions that are needed to accelerate progress in improving water quality in Wales.
I don't think those campaigning for better water quality are particularly interested in political debate for the sake of it. They expect us to forge a consensus behind taking firm action, and in that spirit, whilst we would not have phrased the motion today in quite the terms Plaid Cymru have, we will support the opposition motion completely whilst adding to it a set of actions we think can help deliver the intent behind the motion. So, I absolutely agree that Wales should have full control over its water resources.
It is important to say that this is already largely the case as a result of the ongoing process of devolution, including through the various relationships between the Government, water companies in Wales, NRW and Ofwat, as very many people have highlighted. Just to give an example, our strategic priority statement for Ofwat last summer outlined our expectations for tackling the climate and nature emergencies, protecting the environment, building resilience and sustaining asset health, and collaborating with customers and communities. And that is how they must deliver on Wales's priorities in how they carry out their role, and as various people mentioned—Adam in particular—the 2018 inter-governmental water protocol for England and Wales, and its impact on resources.
But I do completely agree that the pricing mechanisms are out of kilter and need to be reviewed, and I will certainly be very happy to take away the idea that we should look again at whether we need the statutory protections put in place on top of the inter-governmental protocols. I'm very happy to do that.
The original motion also highlights the need to introduce legislation within the current Senedd term to place the drainage on waste water management plans for water companies on a statutory footing. This is a commitment we've already made and we hope this Senedd will endorse us in taking that step, too.
I also agree that the privatised model of water regulation just has not delivered. It has not led to the promised levels of investment whilst delivering profits, salaries and bonuses that the public quite rightly find very difficult to accept as reasonable. It requires far too many of the costs of the system to be added to customer bills, causing real issues of social and environmental justice that several Members, Sioned in particular, have highlighted. We also know that water bills are often a canary issue for wider cost-of-living issues too, and it's the first one that people stop paying because they think that they can't be cut off, and so on. We've done a lot of work with Dŵr Cymru on their social tariff, and I'm pleased to see the acknowledgement of that.
But I have to say that I was bitterly disappointed that the Conservative Government pulled the plug on a UK-wide social tariff at the last moment. There's absolutely no excuse for that. It really does cause real issues of social and environmental justice.
It is important to say that water quality in Wales has been improving, and our task is to accelerate that progress. Many people have mentioned 40 per cent of water bodies achieving good or better overall status under water framework directives; classifications rising to 44 per cent if you look just at Wales's rivers. Just to put that in historical context, that is 8 per cent higher than the first classifications in 2009, but it's not good enough, quite clearly. Cefin Campbell, in particular, highlighted that and Delyth, you did too. We absolutely have to do better. But I do think it's important not to have a council of despair. It is going in the right direction. What we need to do is try and accelerate the direction of travel.
There are also acute and chronic water quality problems that require action, but we have shown already that, by working together—public bodies, communities, businesses—real progress can be made. There is a case to say the current model has contributed to situations where there’s been a deterioration in water quality, but, overall, the actions taken by all of the people who are signatories to the phosphates summit in particular—water companies, farmers, conservationists, planners, house builders and many others—have helped deliver progress in improving water quality.
But the privatised model is clearly flawed. The reason it’s really flawed, to be honest, Janet, isn’t because we happen to have a not-for-profit model here—it’s still a privatised company, regardless of what the leader of the opposition inexplicably tweets all the time. But it is operating in a commercial system that does not work and that insists that the cost of the environmental improvements that you call for all the time are paid for by bill payers, instead of treated as infrastructure developments of general significance that should be paid for out of general taxation. This model does not work. It’s why we haven’t had the improvements we want to see, and it’s why they won’t happen while that model still exists.
So, our Government amendment does not take anything away from the original motion, but adds to it actions we think the Senedd should support us in taking, using the powers that we have. We’re not in a position where the interests of Wales can be set aside, because of those powers at our disposal to ensure this is not the case. I understand the emotional call about Welsh water, of course I do. We all understand the emotional and cultural significance of the appalling treatment of communities across Wales. But I also think that we have to acknowledge that the chief pressures on water resources in Wales are not from those transfers, better regulated though they could be, and better paid for though they could be. The chief pressures are from activity taking place here in Wales that we need to act on. [Interruption.] Of course.
Diolch, Lywydd. Rwy'n croesawu'r cyfle i ymateb i'r ddadl hynod bwysig hon heddiw yn fawr. Cafwyd ymchwydd o gefnogaeth ymhlith y cyhoedd o blaid gwell ansawdd dŵr, gwell rheolaeth ar ddŵr, ac yn arbennig o blaid glanhau ein hafonydd. Ac mae hon yn foment y dylem fanteisio arni. Mae Gweinidogion Llywodraeth Cymru, ers blynyddoedd lawer, wedi ymgysylltu â physgotwyr, ac mae defnyddwyr afonydd eraill wedi bod yn ymgyrchwyr brwd dros well ansawdd dŵr, gwell rheolaeth ar ddŵr ac afonydd iachach. Ond mae mwy o ddiddordeb nag erioed yn y pwnc hwn, i raddau helaeth dyma mae pobl am siarad amdano ble bynnag yr ewch, sy'n foment i fanteisio arni. Mae angen inni gael momentwm o'r fath i fwrw ymlaen â'r holl weithredu sydd ei angen i gyflymu'r cynnydd ar wella ansawdd dŵr yng Nghymru.
Ni chredaf fod gan y rhai sy'n ymgyrchu dros well ansawdd dŵr ddiddordeb arbennig mewn trafodaeth wleidyddol er mwyn cael trafodaeth wleidyddol yn unig. Maent yn disgwyl inni lunio consensws dros weithredu cadarn, ac yn yr ysbryd hwnnw, er na fyddem wedi geirio'r cynnig heddiw yn union fel y gwnaeth Plaid Cymru, byddwn yn cefnogi cynnig yr wrthblaid yn llwyr gan ychwanegu cyfres o gamau gweithredu ato y credwn y gallent helpu i gyflawni'r bwriad y tu ôl i'r cynnig. Felly, cytunaf yn llwyr y dylai Cymru gael rheolaeth lawn ar ei hadnoddau dŵr.
Mae'n bwysig dweud bod hyn eisoes yn wir i raddau helaeth o ganlyniad i broses barhaus datganoli, gan gynnwys drwy'r gwahanol gysylltiadau rhwng y Llywodraeth, cwmnïau dŵr yng Nghymru, CNC ac Ofwat, fel y mae llawer iawn o bobl wedi'i nodi. Er enghraifft, amlinellodd ein datganiad blaenoriaethau strategol ar gyfer Ofwat yr haf diwethaf ein disgwyliadau ar gyfer mynd i'r afael â'r argyfyngau hinsawdd a natur, diogelu'r amgylchedd, adeiladu gwydnwch a chynnal iechyd asedau, a chydweithio â chwsmeriaid a chymunedau. A dyna sut mae'n rhaid iddynt gyflawni blaenoriaethau Cymru o ran sut maent yn cyflawni eu rôl, ac fel y soniodd amryw o bobl—Adam yn benodol—protocol dŵr rhynglywodraethol 2018 ar gyfer Cymru a Lloegr, a'i effaith ar adnoddau.
Ond cytunaf yn llwyr fod y mecanweithiau prisio yn anghyson a bod angen eu hadolygu, ac rwy'n fwy na pharod i ystyried y syniad y dylem edrych eto i weld a oes angen yr amddiffyniadau statudol ar waith ar ben y protocolau rhynglywodraethol. Rwy'n fwy na pharod i wneud hynny.
Mae'r cynnig gwreiddiol hefyd yn tynnu sylw at yr angen i gyflwyno deddfwriaeth o fewn tymor y Senedd hon i roi draenio ar gynlluniau rheoli dŵr gwastraff cwmnïau dŵr ar sail statudol. Mae hwn yn ymrwymiad rydym eisoes wedi'i wneud a gobeithiwn y bydd y Senedd yn ein cefnogi wrth inni gymryd y cam hwnnw hefyd.
Cytunaf hefyd nad yw'r model wedi'i breifateiddio o reoleiddio dŵr wedi llwyddo. Nid yw wedi arwain at y lefelau buddsoddi a addawyd wrth iddo ddarparu elw, cyflogau a bonysau y mae'r cyhoedd yn ei chael hi'n anodd iawn eu derbyn fel rhai rhesymol. Mae'n ei gwneud yn ofynnol i lawer gormod o gostau'r system gael eu hychwanegu at filiau cwsmeriaid, gan achosi problemau cyfiawnder cymdeithasol ac amgylcheddol gwirioneddol y mae sawl Aelod, yn enwedig Sioned, wedi tynnu sylw atynt. Gwyddom hefyd fod biliau dŵr yn aml yn arwydd o broblemau costau byw ehangach hefyd, a dyma'r bil cyntaf y mae pobl yn rhoi'r gorau i'w dalu am eu bod yn credu na ellir torri eu cyflenwad, ac yn y blaen. Rydym wedi gwneud llawer o waith gyda Dŵr Cymru ar eu tariff cymdeithasol, ac rwy'n falch o weld cydnabyddiaeth o hynny.
Ond mae'n rhaid imi ddweud fy mod yn siomedig iawn fod y Llywodraeth Geidwadol wedi tynnu'r plwg ar dariff cymdeithasol ar gyfer y DU gyfan ar y funud olaf. Nid oes esgus o gwbl dros hynny. Mae'n achosi problemau cyfiawnder cymdeithasol ac amgylcheddol gwirioneddol.
Mae'n bwysig dweud bod ansawdd dŵr yng Nghymru wedi bod yn gwella, a'n gorchwyl ni yw cyflymu'r cynnydd hwnnw. Mae llawer o bobl wedi sôn bod 40 y cant o grynofeydd dŵr wedi cyflawni statws cyffredinol da neu well o dan gyfarwyddebau'r fframwaith dŵr; mae'r ffigur yn codi i 44 y cant os edrychwch ar afonydd Cymru yn unig. I roi hynny mewn cyd-destun hanesyddol, mae hynny 8 y cant yn uwch na'r dosbarthiadau cyntaf yn 2009, ond nid yw'n ddigon da, yn amlwg. Nodwyd hynny gan Cefin Campbell, yn enwedig, a chithau hefyd, Delyth. Yn sicr, mae'n rhaid inni wneud yn well. Ond credaf ei bod yn bwysig peidio ag anobeithio. Mae'n mynd i'r cyfeiriad cywir. Yr hyn sydd angen inni ei wneud yw ceisio cyflymu'r cynnydd.
Mae angen mynd i'r afael â phroblemau ansawdd dŵr acíwt a chronig, ond rydym wedi dangos eisoes, drwy weithio gyda'n gilydd—cyrff cyhoeddus, cymunedau, busnesau—y gellir gwneud cynnydd gwirioneddol. Mae modd dadlau bod y model presennol wedi cyfrannu at sefyllfaoedd lle bu dirywiad mewn ansawdd dŵr, ond yn gyffredinol, mae'r camau a gymerwyd gan yr holl bobl a ymrwymodd i'r uwchgynhadledd ffosffadau yn arbennig—cwmnïau dŵr, ffermwyr, cadwraethwyr, cynllunwyr, adeiladwyr tai a llawer o bobl eraill—wedi helpu i sicrhau cynnydd ar wella ansawdd dŵr.
Ond mae'r model wedi'i breifateiddio yn amlwg yn ddiffygiol. Nid am fod gennym fodel nid-er-elw yma y mae'n ddiffygiol, Janet—mae'n dal i fod yn gwmni a breifateiddiwyd, ni waeth beth y mae arweinydd yr wrthblaid yn ei drydar yn anesboniadwy drwy'r amser. Ond mae'n gweithredu mewn system fasnachol nad yw'n gweithio ac sy'n mynnu bod costau'r gwelliannau amgylcheddol rydych chi'n galw amdanynt drwy'r amser yn cael eu talu gan dalwyr biliau, yn hytrach na'u trin fel datblygiadau seilwaith o bwysigrwydd cyffredinol y dylid talu amdanynt allan o drethiant cyffredinol. Nid yw'r model hwn yn gweithio. Dyna pam nad ydym wedi cael y gwelliannau rydym am eu gweld, a dyna pam na fyddant yn digwydd tra bo'r model hwnnw'n dal i fodoli.
Felly, nid yw gwelliant y Llywodraeth yn tynnu unrhyw beth oddi wrth y cynnig gwreiddiol, mae'n ychwanegu camau y credwn y dylai'r Senedd ein cefnogi i'w cymryd, gan ddefnyddio'r pwerau sydd gennym. Nid ydym mewn sefyllfa lle gellir rhoi buddiannau Cymru o'r neilltu, oherwydd y pwerau sydd ar gael i ni i sicrhau nad yw hynny'n digwydd. Rwy'n deall yr alwad emosiynol ynghylch dŵr Cymru, wrth gwrs fy mod. Mae pob un ohonom yn deall arwyddocâd emosiynol a diwylliannol y ffordd echrydus y mae cymunedau ledled Cymru wedi cael eu trin. Ond credaf hefyd fod yn rhaid inni gydnabod nad yw'r prif bwysau ar adnoddau dŵr yng Nghymru yn deillio o'r trosglwyddiadau hynny, er y gellid eu rheoleiddio'n well, ac er y gellid talu'n well amdanynt. Mae'r prif bwysau'n deillio o weithgarwch sy'n digwydd yma yng Nghymru y mae angen inni gymryd camau i fynd i'r afael ag ef. [Torri ar draws.] Wrth gwrs.
Specifically on the issue of powers, could you clarify what is the current position? Because the Deputy Minister did write to the Secretary of State for the environment asking for a delay in the transfer of those powers under section 48. Has there been subsequent correspondence? Are you now asking for the immediate transfer of those powers fully, for the whole of all companies based within Wales's borders?
Yn benodol ar fater pwerau, a wnewch chi egluro beth yw'r sefyllfa bresennol? Oherwydd mae'r Dirprwy Weinidog wedi ysgrifennu at yr Ysgrifennydd Gwladol dros yr amgylchedd yn gofyn am oedi cyn trosglwyddo'r pwerau hynny o dan adran 48. A fu gohebiaeth ddilynol? A ydych chi bellach yn gofyn am drosglwyddo'r pwerau hynny'n llawn ar unwaith, ar gyfer yr holl gwmnïau sydd wedi'u lleoli o fewn ffiniau Cymru?
We haven't. Nothing has happened since we asked for the delay, but what I'm saying, as a result of this debate, is I will go away and have a better look at why we've settled on the protocol and not taken that further. I honestly don't know the answer to that, Adam, but I'm absolutely determined I will find out for you and come back. So, it has been very useful to have the debate today to raise that point.
The point I was making, though, was, in addressing water quality itself, that's not about the transfers, although all the points you've made are good points. It is about developing further measures to address agricultural pollution, shifting spending on new roads to target maintenance, which includes surface water management and funding the removal of grey infrastructure from rivers, and our world-leading work on addressing pollution from metal mines.
Also, in 2019, Wales became the first country to introduce a mandatory requirement for sustainable drainage systems on new housing developments. Not only do SuDS support our net-zero, biodiversity and well-being objectives, they are an important means of relieving pressure on the sewage network, and in turn have a positive impact on issues like combined sewer overflows. Last year, I commissioned a review by the Welsh Local Government Association to review the SuDS implementation and will be making an oral statement this month about the findings.
We've already seen that these activities deliver water quality improvements in Wales, and our view is that continuing to make a real difference working with others is where the primary focus should be. I am especially interested in capitalising on public interest in promoting the use of citizen science data in informing policy decisions and targeting regulatory actions. I've been working with our biodiversity deep-dive group and others on developing catchment-wide approaches that facilitate actions that can deal with all of the pressures across a whole catchment, bringing together all of the relevant interests in doing so. Taking that kind of collaborative approach must be the way forward, as I said in earlier debates this morning, not pitting one sector against another for narrow political gain.
So, speaking of unhelpful approaches, I must now turn to the amendment tabled by the Conservatives. I think the Welsh public may be surprised to hear the Conservatives believe there’s no role for them or their party in tackling this issue. They tell us it is all someone else’s fault and someone else’s problem to solve, and, rather than come forward lending their support to tough actions to improve water quality, they see an opportunity to distract from the staggering levels of economic and environmental incompetence displayed currently at Westminster. It is quite extraordinary to hear the Conservative Party lamenting the state of the River Wye. The Conservative representatives for Brecon and Radnorshire have been unwavering opponents of action to address water pollution because—and I’m going to quote them here—it would be disproportionate to strengthen regulation in areas like the River Wye, where they say there is not a problem. Those are their words, not mine. I'm sure that they might be very interested in having a look at the scientific evidence—it would be very interesting for them—but unfortunately it might require them to adjust that position.
If the Conservative Party today would like to throw its weight behind tighter regulation of pollution affecting water resources in Wales from all sources, that would be a development the public would warmly welcome. However, the Conservative motion specifies not a single action that would make any direct difference, and it tells you, I think, all we need to know about the state of Tory environmentalism today: gestures rather than action, grappling with inconvenient truths that the majority of the Welsh public accepted well over a decade ago.
So, Llywydd, I believe today is an opportunity for the Senedd to speak with one voice on this issue and show our shared resolve to take decisive action on water quality. Clearly, we approach this issue differently, from our different political perspectives, but, having accepted all points in the original motion, we've added a set of actions we believe any party represented here could and should support. Diolch.
Nac ydym. Nid oes unrhyw beth wedi digwydd ers inni ofyn am yr oedi, ond yr hyn rwy'n ei ddweud, o ganlyniad i'r ddadl hon, yw y byddaf yn archwilio mewn mwy o fanylder pam ein bod wedi setlo ar y protocol a heb fynd â hynny ymhellach. A dweud y gwir, nid wyf yn gwybod yr ateb i hynny, Adam, ond rwy'n gwbl benderfynol o ddod o hyd i'r ateb a dod yn ôl atoch. Felly, mae wedi bod yn ddefnyddiol iawn cael y ddadl heddiw i godi'r pwynt hwnnw.
Y pwynt roeddwn yn ei wneud, fodd bynnag, oedd, wrth fynd i'r afael ag ansawdd dŵr ei hun, nad yw hynny'n ymwneud â'r trosglwyddiadau, er bod yr holl bwyntiau a wnaed gennych yn bwyntiau da. Mae'n ymwneud â datblygu mesurau pellach i fynd i'r afael â llygredd amaethyddol, symud gwariant ar ffyrdd newydd i dargedu gwaith cynnal a chadw, sy'n cynnwys rheoli dŵr wyneb ac ariannu'r gwaith o gael gwared ar seilwaith llwyd o afonydd, a'n gwaith blaenllaw ar fynd i'r afael â llygredd mwyngloddiau metel.
Hefyd, yn 2019, Cymru oedd y wlad gyntaf i gyflwyno gofyniad gorfodol ar gyfer systemau draenio cynaliadwy mewn datblygiadau tai newydd. Nid yn unig fod systemau draenio cynaliadwy yn cefnogi ein hamcanion sero net, bioamrywiaeth a llesiant, maent hefyd yn ffordd bwysig o leddfu pwysau ar y rhwydwaith carthffosiaeth, ac yn eu tro, cânt effaith gadarnhaol ar faterion fel gorlifoedd carthffosiaeth cyfunol. Y llynedd, comisiynais adolygiad gan Gymdeithas Llywodraeth Leol Cymru i adolygu gweithrediad y systemau draenio cynaliadwy, a byddaf yn gwneud datganiad llafar y mis hwn am y canfyddiadau.
Rydym eisoes wedi gweld bod y gweithgareddau hyn yn darparu gwelliannau ansawdd dŵr yng Nghymru, a'n barn ni yw y dylid canolbwyntio ar barhau i wneud gwahaniaeth gwirioneddol wrth weithio gydag eraill. Mae gennyf ddiddordeb arbennig mewn manteisio ar ddiddordeb y cyhoedd mewn hyrwyddo'r defnydd o ddata gwyddoniaeth y dinesydd i lywio penderfyniadau polisi a thargedu camau rheoleiddio. Rwyf wedi bod yn gweithio gyda grŵp yr archwiliad dwfn bioamrywiaeth ac eraill ar ddatblygu dulliau dalgylch cyfan sy'n hwyluso camau gweithredu a all fynd i'r afael â'r holl bwysau ar draws dalgylch cyfan, gan ddod â'r holl fuddiannau perthnasol at ei gilydd wrth wneud hynny. Defnyddio'r math hwnnw o ddull cydweithredol yw'r ffordd ymlaen, fel y dywedais mewn dadleuon cynharach y bore yma, yn hytrach na gosod un sector yn erbyn y llall er budd gwleidyddol cul.
Felly, wrth sôn am agweddau nad ydynt yn ddefnyddiol, rhaid imi droi nawr at y gwelliant a gyflwynwyd gan y Ceidwadwyr. Credaf efallai y bydd y cyhoedd yng Nghymru yn synnu bod y Ceidwadwyr o'r farn nad oes rôl iddynt hwy na'u plaid wrth fynd i'r afael â'r mater hwn. Dywedant wrthym mai bai rhywun arall a phroblem rhywun arall i'w datrys yw'r cyfan, ac yn hytrach na chefnogi camau cadarn i wella ansawdd dŵr, gwelant gyfle i dynnu'r sylw oddi ar y lefelau anhygoel o anallu economaidd ac amgylcheddol a ddangosir yn San Steffan ar hyn o bryd. Mae'n anhygoel clywed y Blaid Geidwadol yn cwyno am gyflwr afon Gwy. Mae cynrychiolwyr Ceidwadol Brycheiniog a Sir Faesyfed wedi bod yn ddiwyro eu gwrthwynebiad i gamau gweithredu i fynd i'r afael â llygredd dŵr oherwydd—ac rwy'n mynd i'w dyfynnu yma—byddai'n anghymesur cryfhau rheoliadau mewn ardaloedd fel afon Gwy, lle maent yn dweud nad oes problem. Eu geiriau nhw yw'r rheini, nid fy ngeiriau i. Rwy'n siŵr y gallai fod ganddynt gryn ddiddordeb mewn cael golwg ar y dystiolaeth wyddonol—byddai'n ddiddorol iawn iddynt—ond yn anffodus, efallai y byddai'n ei gwneud yn ofynnol iddynt newid eu safbwynt.
Os hoffai'r Blaid Geidwadol gefnogi rheoliadau tynnach heddiw mewn perthynas â llygredd sy'n effeithio ar adnoddau dŵr yng Nghymru o bob ffynhonnell, byddai hwnnw'n ddatblygiad y byddai'r cyhoedd yn ei groesawu'n fawr. Fodd bynnag, nid yw cynnig y Ceidwadwyr yn nodi unrhyw weithred a fyddai'n gwneud unrhyw wahaniaeth uniongyrchol, a chredaf fod hynny'n dweud popeth sydd angen inni ei wybod am gyflwr amgylcheddaeth Dorïaidd heddiw: geiriau gwag yn hytrach na gweithredoedd, a gwrthod gwirioneddau anghyfleus sydd wedi'u derbyn gan y rhan fwyaf o'r cyhoedd yng Nghymru ymhell dros ddegawd yn ôl.
Felly, Lywydd, credaf fod heddiw'n gyfle i'r Senedd siarad ag un llais ar y mater hwn a dangos ein penderfyniad ar y cyd i roi camau pendant ar waith ar ansawdd dŵr. Yn amlwg, mae gennym wahanol safbwyntiau gwleidyddol ar y mater hwn, ond ar ôl derbyn pob pwynt yn y cynnig gwreiddiol, rydym wedi ychwanegu set o gamau gweithredu y credwn y gallai ac y dylai unrhyw blaid a gynrychiolir yma eu cefnogi. Diolch.
Galwaf ar Delyth Jewell nawr i ymateb i'r ddadl.
I call on Delyth Jewell now to reply to the debate.
Diolch, Llywydd. Diolch i bawb sydd wedi cymryd rhan yn ein dadl heno. Clywsom gan Janet am y gwaith pwysig mae Dŵr Cymru wedi bod yn ei wneud, yn enwedig wrth helpu cwsmeriaid bregus. Mae'n bwysig i gael hynny.
Thank you, Llywydd. Thank you to everyone who's taken part in our debate this evening. We heard from Janet about the important work that Dŵr Cymru has been doing, particularly in assisting vulnerable customers. It is important to have that.
I don't think what we're calling for is complex, to take what you'd said. I think, in its essence, it's actually incredibly straightforward, but I do thank you for your contribution to the debate.
Adam set out how the world undervalues water and how this has led to the exploitation of communities across the globe. He made the economic case for Wales getting a fairer price for our water persuasively. Jane contextualised the problems facing communities in Powys, in this sense of the same historic injustice: the high water bills, set against the pennies we get.
Ni chredaf fod yr hyn y galwn amdano yn gymhleth, mewn ymateb i'r hyn a ddywedoch. Yn ei hanfod, credaf ei fod yn hynod o syml mewn gwirionedd, ond diolch am eich cyfraniad i'r ddadl.
Nododd Adam sut nad yw'r byd yn gweld gwerth dŵr a sut mae hyn wedi arwain at ecsbloetio cymunedau ledled y byd. Gwnaeth achos economaidd argyhoeddiadol dros bris tecach am ein dŵr i Gymru. Cawsom gyd-destun gan Jane i'r problemau sy'n wynebu cymunedau ym Mhowys, yr un teimlad o anghyfiawnder hanesyddol: y biliau dŵr uchel, yn erbyn y ceiniogau a gawn.
Diolch am hynny. Clywsom gan Sioned am dlodi dŵr, y paradocs trist eironig roedd hi'n sôn amdano o'r biliau uchel eto, pan fo cyflenwad mor gyfoethog gennym sydd tu hwnt i'n gafael, a'r effaith ar iechyd meddwl o ganlyniad i'r dyledion. Roedd hynny'n rhywbeth pwysig i'w gynnwys. Gwnaeth Cefin sôn am symbolaeth y cymunedau coll:
'Dyma'r dŵr sy'n drymach nag unrhyw garreg fedd'.
Diolch am ddyfynnu hwnna. Mae ein galwad heno, Llywydd, er lles ein dyfodol, ond mae hi er lles y cymunedau coll hynny hefyd.
Thank you for that. We heard from Sioned about water poverty. That ironic paradox of the high bills again, when we have such a rich supply beyond our reach, and the impact on mental health as a result of the debts. That was also important to encompass. Cefin talked about the symbolism of lost communities:
'This is the water that weighs heavier than any tombstone'.
Thank you for quoting Huw Jones. Our call this evening is for the benefit of our future, but it's also for the benefit of those lost communities too.
The past is never far from the surface in this debate.
Jenny propelled us towards the future, again underlining the need for protecting vulnerable customers, set against the fact that, for those who can afford it—. As Adam had been relating with some of these figures, this should be a re-evaluation of how we actually value water. You said that water is the new gold. I wonder, in years to come, if water will become, in a sense, thicker than oil, thicker than blood. So, thank you for your contribution as well.
I thank the Minister for her contribution. This is a moment in time to be grasped. I welcome your support. I would still welcome clarity, when you can find out, Minister, about what had led to that delay, for the sake of openness. I do agree that overwhelmingly we must look towards the future, and it feels like this could be a historic moment. I hope we'll get a timetable very soon setting out when that mechanism can be triggered to devolve these powers set out in the 2017 Act, because that's what the motion will call to happen once—. I am hoping very much now that it will pass.
It's been an emotive debate, which is as it should be, and we've traversed many parts of Wales in our time this evening through our rivers and our reservoirs. But for all the references made to our haunting past—
Nid yw'r gorffennol byth yn bell o'r wyneb yn y ddadl hon.
Cawsom ein cyfeirio tuag at y dyfodol gan Jenny, gan danlinellu'r angen unwaith eto i ddiogelu cwsmeriaid bregus, yn erbyn y ffaith, i'r rhai sy'n gallu ei fforddio—. Fel y soniodd Adam gyda rhai o'r ffigurau hyn, dylai hyn arwain at ailystyried y gwerth rydym yn ei roi ar ddŵr. Fe ddywedoch chi mai dŵr yw'r aur newydd. Yn y blynyddoedd i ddod, tybed a ddaw dŵr ar un ystyr yn dewach nag olew, yn dewach na gwaed. Felly, diolch am eich cyfraniad chi hefyd.
Diolch i'r Gweinidog am ei chyfraniad. Mae hon yn foment i fanteisio arni. Rwy'n croesawu eich cefnogaeth. Byddwn yn dal i groesawu eglurder, pan allwch, Weinidog, ynglŷn â'r hyn a arweiniodd at yr oedi, er tryloywder. Rwy'n cytuno bod yn rhaid inni edrych tua'r dyfodol i raddau helaeth, ac mae'n teimlo y gallai hon fod yn foment hanesyddol. Rwy'n gobeithio y cawn amserlen yn fuan i nodi pryd y gellir sbarduno'r mecanwaith i ddatganoli'r pwerau a nodir yn Neddf 2017, gan mai dyna fydd y cynnig yn galw amdano pan—. Rwy'n mawr obeithio y caiff ei dderbyn nawr.
Mae wedi bod yn ddadl emosiynol, fel y dylai fod, ac rydym wedi croesi sawl rhan o Gymru yn ein hamser heno drwy ein hafonydd a'n cronfeydd dŵr. Ond er gwaethaf yr holl gyfeiriadau a wnaed at ein gorffennol cythryblus—
yr enwau na allant eu hanghofio—
the names that we must not forget—
I'm glad to say that a fair focus has been on that future of us as a nation, not gaining powers for the sake of gaining powers, but the need to make better the lives of people who live here, the need to clean up the waste in our waterways, the need for clarity about how decisions on water will be made in the future. And I feel like this could be the start of something important.
Rwy'n falch o ddweud ein bod wedi canolbwyntio ar ein dyfodol fel cenedl, nid ennill pwerau er mwyn ennill pwerau, ond yr angen i wella bywydau pobl sy'n byw yma, yr angen i lanhau'r gwastraff yn ein dyfrffyrdd, yr angen am eglurder ynglŷn â sut y gwneir penderfyniadau'n ymwneud â dŵr yn y dyfodol. Ac rwy'n teimlo y gallai hyn fod yn ddechrau rhywbeth pwysig.
Fel byddai Harri Webb wedi ei ddweud, dyma Gymru'n dechrau ar ei hymdaith.
As Harri Webb would have said, this is Wales starting on its journey.
Because we have to face that future, learning the lessons of what has gone before, or else our fate will be that of Fitzgerald's Nick Carraway, beating on,
'boats against the current, borne back ceaselessly into the past.'
The tide is flowing our way. We must take it at its flood. Our fortunes, as a nation, will depend on it. Diolch.
Oherwydd mae'n rhaid inni wynebu'r dyfodol hwnnw, gan ddysgu gwersi'r hyn sydd wedi bod, neu fel arall, bydd ein tynged fel un Nick Carraway yn nofel Fitzgerald, yn rhygnu ymlaen,
'cychod yn erbyn y cerrynt, yn cael ein llusgo'n ôl yn dragywydd i'r gorffennol.'
Mae'r llanw'n llifo gyda ni. Mae'n rhaid inni fynd gydag ef. Bydd ein ffawd, fel cenedl, yn dibynnu arno. Diolch.
Y cwestiwn yw: a ddylid derbyn y cynnig heb ei ddiwygio? A oes unrhyw Aelod yn gwrthwynebu? [Gwrthwynebiad.] Oes, mae yna wrthwynebiad. Ac felly, fe wnawn ni ohirio'r pleidleisiau tan y cyfnod pleidleisio.
The proposal is to agree the motion without amendment. Does any Member object? [Objection.] Yes, there are objections. And we will therefore defer voting until voting time.
Gohiriwyd y pleidleisio tan y cyfnod pleidleisio.
Voting deferred until voting time.
Dŷn ni'n cyrraedd y cyfnod pleidleisio nawr, ac fe symudwn ni i'r bleidlais os nad oes yna dri Aelod yn dymuno i fi ganu'r gloch. Gan nad oes neb yn dymuno i fi ganu'r gloch, awn ni at y bleidlais gyntaf.
Mae'r cyfres bleidleisio cyntaf ar eitem 6, a hon oedd dadl y Ceidwadwyr Cymreig ar arferion cyfrifyddu ym Mwrdd Iechyd Prifysgol Betsi Cadwaladr. Dwi'n galw am bleidlais, felly, ar y cynnig heb ei ddiwygio, a gyflwynwyd yn enw Darren Millar. Agor y bleidlais. Mae'r bleidlais yn gyfartal ac felly fe fyddaf i'n bwrw fy mhleidlais fwrw fel Cadeirydd yn erbyn y cynnig. Felly, canlyniad y bleidlais yw fod 24 o blaid, neb yn ymatal, 25 yn erbyn.
That brings us to voting time, and we'll move to the vote unless three Members wish for the bell to be rung. As there is no indication that Members wish for the bell to be rung, we will move to the first vote.
The first series of votes is on item 6, the Welsh Conservatives debate on accounting practices at Betsi Cadwaladr University Health Board. I call for a vote on the motion without amendment, tabled in the name of Darren Millar. Open the vote. The vote is tied and therefore I will use my casting vote against the motion. Therefore, the result of the vote is that there were 24 in favour, no abstentions, and 25 against.
Eitem 6. Dadl y Ceidwadwyr Cymreig - Arferion cyfrifyddu ym Mwrdd Iechyd Prifysgol Betsi Cadwaladr. Cynnig heb ei ddiwygio, cyflwynwyd yn enw Darren Millar: O blaid: 24, Yn erbyn: 24, Ymatal: 0
Gan fod nifer y pleidleisiau yn gyfartal, defnyddiodd y Llywydd ei phleidlais fwrw yn unol â Rheol Sefydlog 6.20(ii).
Gwrthodwyd y cynnig
Item 6. Welsh Conservatives Debate - Accounting practices at Betsi Cadwaladr University Health Board. Motion without amendment, tabled in the name of Darren Millar: For: 24, Against: 24, Abstain: 0
As there was an equality of votes, the Llywydd used her casting vote in accordance with Standing Order 6.20(ii).
Motion has been rejected
Felly, fe fyddwn ni'n mynd at welliant 1; mae gwelliant 1 yn enw Lesley Griffiths. Felly, agor y bleidlais ar welliant 1. Mae'r bleidlais unwaith eto yn gyfartal, ac felly fe fyddaf i'n defnyddio fy mhleidlais fwrw yn erbyn gwelliant 1. Mae canlyniad y bleidlais ar welliant 1 yn 24 o blaid, neb yn ymatal, 25 yn erbyn. Mae'r gwelliant wedi cwympo.
Therefore, we will move to a vote on amendment 1, which was tabled in the name of Lesley Griffiths. Open the vote on amendment 1. Once again the vote is tied, and therefore I will exercise my casting vote against the amendment. The result of the vote on amendment 1 is 24 in favour, no abstentions, 25 against. Therefore, the amendment falls.
Eitem 6. Dadl y Ceidwadwyr Cymreig - Arferion cyfrifyddu ym Mwrdd Iechyd Prifysgol Betsi Cadwaladr. Gwelliant 1, cyflwynwyd yn enw Lesley Griffiths: O blaid: 24, Yn erbyn: 24, Ymatal: 0
Gan fod nifer y pleidleisiau yn gyfartal, defnyddiodd y Llywydd ei phleidlais fwrw yn unol â Rheol Sefydlog 6.20(ii).
Gwrthodwyd y gwelliant
Item 6. Welsh Conservative Debate - Accounting practices at Betsi Cadwaladr University Health Board. Amendment 1, tabled in the name of Lesley Griffiths: For: 24, Against: 24, Abstain: 0
As there was an equality of votes, the Llywydd used her casting vote in accordance with Standing Order 6.20(ii).
Amendment has been rejected
Mae'r cynnig a'r gwelliant, felly, wedi cwympo, ac felly does yna ddim byd wedi ei gytuno o dan bleidleisiau’r eitem yna.
Eitem 7 sydd nesaf, dadl y Ceidwadwyr Cymreig ar gynefinoedd carbon glas. Dwi'n galw am bleidlais ar y cynnig heb ei ddiwygio, yn enw Darren Millar. Agor y bleidlais. Mae'r bleidlais yn gyfartal, felly fe fyddaf i'n defnyddio fy mhleidlais fwrw yn erbyn y cynnig. Felly canlyniad y bleidlais oedd fod 24 o blaid, neb yn ymatal, 25 yn erbyn. Mae'r cynnig wedi ei wrthod.
The motion and amendment have fallen, therefore, and nothing is agreed under this item.
Item 7 is next, the Welsh Conservatives debate on blue carbon habitats. I call for a vote on the motion without amendment, tabled in the name of Darren Millar. Open the vote. The vote is again tied, therefore I will exercise my casting vote against the motion. The result of the vote is that there were 24 in favour, no abstentions and 25 against. The motion is therefore not agreed.
Eitem 7. Dadl y Ceidwadwyr Cymreig - Cynefinoedd carbon glas. Cynnig heb ei ddiwygio, cyflwynwyd yn enw Darren Millar: O blaid: 24, Yn erbyn: 24, Ymatal: 0
Gan fod nifer y pleidleisiau yn gyfartal, defnyddiodd y Llywydd ei phleidlais fwrw yn unol â Rheol Sefydlog 6.20(ii).
Gwrthodwyd y cynnig
Item 7. Welsh Conservatives Debate - Blue carbon habitats. Motion without amendment, tabled in the name of Darren Millar: For: 24, Against: 24, Abstain: 0
As there was an equality of votes, the Llywydd used her casting vote in accordance with Standing Order 6.20(ii).
Motion has been rejected
Gwelliant 1 yw'r bleidlais nesaf. Agor y bleidlais, felly, ar welliant 1, yn enw Lesley Griffiths. Agor y bleidlais. Mae'r bleidlais yn gyfartal: o blaid 24, neb yn ymatal, 24 yn erbyn. Felly, dwi'n bwrw fy mhleidlais yn erbyn y gwelliant. Canlyniad y bleidlais yw 24 o blaid, neb yn ymatal, 25 yn erbyn gwelliant 1. Mae gwelliant 1 felly hefyd yn cwympo.
We will move now to a vote on amendment 1. Open the vote on amendment 1, tabled in the name of Lesley Griffiths. Open the vote. The vote is tied: in favour 24, no abstentions, and 24 against. Therefore, I exercise my casting vote against the amendment. The result of the vote is that there were 24 in favour, no abstentions, and 25 against. Amendment 1 is not agreed.
Eitem 7. Dadl y Ceidwadwyr Cymreig - Cynefinoedd carbon glas. Gwelliant 1, cyflwynwyd yn enw Lesley Griffiths: O blaid: 24, Yn erbyn: 24, Ymatal: 0
Gan fod nifer y pleidleisiau yn gyfartal, defnyddiodd y Llywydd ei phleidlais fwrw yn unol â Rheol Sefydlog 6.20(ii).
Gwrthodwyd y gwelliant
Item 7. Welsh Conservatives Debate - Blue carbon habitats. Amendment 1, tabled in the name of Lesley Griffiths: For: 24, Against: 24, Abstain: 0
As there was an equality of votes, the Llywydd used her casting vote in accordance with Standing Order 6.20(ii).
Amendment has been rejected
Dim byd wedi ei gytuno yn y pleidleisiau ar yr eitem yna.
Felly, rydym ni'n symud ymlaen i'r pleidleisiau ar eitem 8, ar ddadl Plaid Cymru ar ddatganoli adnoddau dŵr yn llawn. Galw am bleidlais ar y cynnig heb ei ddiwygio, a gyflwynwyd yn enw Siân Gwenllian. Agor y bleidlais. Cau'r bleidlais. O blaid 11, neb yn ymatal, 37 yn erbyn. Felly, mae'r cynnig wedi ei wrthod.
Nothing is agreed under that item.
We will therefore move on to votes on item 8, the Plaid Cymru debate on the full devolution of water resources. I call for a vote on the motion without amendment, tabled in the name of Siân Gwenllian. Open the vote. Close the vote. In favour 11, no abstentions, 37 against. Therefore, the motion is not agreed.
Eitem 8. Dadl Plaid Cymru - Datganoli adnoddau dŵr yn llawn. Cynnig heb ei ddiwygio, cyflwynwyd yn enw Siân Gwenllian: O blaid: 11, Yn erbyn: 37, Ymatal: 0
Gwrthodwyd y cynnig
Item 8. Plaid Cymru Debate - Full devolution of water resources. Motion without amendment, tabled in the name of Siân Gwenllian: For: 11, Against: 37, Abstain: 0
Motion has been rejected
Gwelliant 1 sydd nesaf, felly, ac, os bydd gwelliant 1 yn cael ei dderbyn, bydd gwelliant 2 yn cael ei ddad-ddethol. Felly, pleidlais ar welliant 1, yn enw Darren Millar. Agor y bleidlais. Cau'r bleidlais. O blaid 13, neb yn ymatal, 35 yn erbyn. Ac felly mae gwelliant 1 wedi ei wrthod.
We will move to a vote on amendment 1, therefore, and, if amendment 1 is agreed, amendment 2 will be deselected. I call for a vote on amendment 1, tabled in the name of Darren Millar. Open the vote. Close the vote. In favour 13, no abstentions, 35 against. And therefore amendment 1 is not agreed.
Eitem 8. Dadl Plaid Cymru - Datganoli adnoddau dŵr yn llawn. Gwelliant 1, cyflwynwyd yn enw Darren Millar: O blaid: 13, Yn erbyn: 35, Ymatal: 0
Gwrthodwyd y gwelliant
Item 8. Plaid Cymru Debate - Full devolution of water resources. Amendment 1, tabled in the name of Darren Millar: For: 13, Against: 35, Abstain: 0
Amendment has been rejected
Gwelliant 2 fydd nesaf. Agor y bleidlais, felly, ar welliant 2, yn enw Lesley Griffiths. Agor y bleidlais. Cau'r bleidlais. O blaid 35, neb yn ymatal, 13 yn erbyn. Felly, mae gwelliant 2 wedi’i dderbyn.
We will now move to amendment 2. Open the vote on amendment 2, tabled in the name of Lesley Griffiths. Open the vote. Close the vote. In favour 35, no abstentions, 13 against. Therefore, amendment 2 is agreed.
Eitem 8. Dadl Plaid Cymru - Datganoli adnoddau dŵr yn llawn. Gwelliant 2, cyflwynwyd yn enw Lesley Griffiths: O blaid: 35, Yn erbyn: 13, Ymatal: 0
Derbyniwyd y gwelliant
Item 8. Plaid Cymru Debate - Full devolution of water resources. Amendment 2, tabled in the name of Lesley Griiffiths: For: 35, Against: 13, Abstain: 0
Amendment has been agreed
Y bleidlais olaf, felly, ar y cynnig wedi’i ddiwygio gan welliant 2.
The final vote is therefore on the motion as amended.
Cynnig NDM8279 fel y'i diwygiwyd:
Cynnig bod y Senedd:
1. Yn credu:
a) y dylai Cymru gael rheolaeth lawn dros ei hadnoddau dŵr, gan gynnwys y gallu i reoleiddio trosglwyddo dŵr y tu hwnt i'w ffiniau;
b) y byddai datganoli pwerau dros ddŵr ymhellach hefyd yn galluogi Gweinidogion Cymru i fynd i'r afael â'r broblem o ollyngiadau carthion i afonydd a moroedd Cymru mewn modd mwy effeithlon; ac
c) bod preifateiddio dŵr yn fodel aflwyddiannus sydd wedi arwain at filiau cynyddol a dirywiad trychinebus yn ansawdd dŵr Cymru.
2. Yn galw ar Lywodraeth Cymru i:
a) gofyn yn ffurfiol am gychwyn adran 48(1) o Ddeddf Cymru 2017, a fyddai'n alinio cymhwysedd deddfwriaethol y Senedd dros ddŵr yn llawn â ffin ddaearyddol Cymru;
b) gofyn yn ffurfiol am ragor o bwerau dros drwyddedu ymgymerwyr carthion yng Nghymru; ac
c) cyflwyno deddfwriaeth o fewn tymor presennol y Senedd i osod cynlluniau draenio a rheoli dŵr gwastraff cwmnïau dŵr yng Nghymru ar sail statudol;
d) defnyddio ei phwerau i’w gwneud yn ofynnol bod pob buddsoddiad strategol mewn seilwaith dŵr sy’n effeithio ar Gymru, gan gynnwys trosglwyddiadau, yn dod â budd i gymunedau ac amgylchedd naturiol Cymru.
e) gweithio gyda phartneriaid i ddiogelu dyfodol adnoddau dŵr Cymru trwy fynd i’r afael â phob gwasgfa ar yr adnoddau hynny, sef o ddŵr gwastraff, dŵr ffo trefol, camgysylltiadau, llygredd gwledig gwasgaredig, newidiadau ffisegol, hen lofeydd a rhywogaethau goresgynnol.
f) neilltuo cyllid ychwanegol i’r Byrddau Rheoli Maethynnau i brysuro’u gwaith o ddiogelu adnoddau dŵr.
g) neilltuo cyllid ychwanegol ar gyfer grantiau cyfalaf i ffermwyr iddynt allu gwella seilwaith sy’n diogelu adnoddau dŵr.
h) cynyddu’r defnydd o ddata gwyddoniaeth y dinesydd er mwyn i ni allu deall yn well y gwasgfeydd ar adnoddau dŵr.
i) datblygu dulliau ar lefel dalgylch gyfan ar gyfer cydsynio a gwelliannau strategol wrth reoli adnoddau dŵr cenedlaethol.
Motion NDM8279 as amended:
To propose that the Senedd:
1. Believes that:
a) Wales should have full control over its water resources, including the ability to regulate the transfer of water beyond its borders;
b) further devolution of powers over water would also enable Welsh Ministers to more effectively address the problem of sewage discharges into Wales's rivers and seas; and
c) the privatisation of water is a failed model that has led to soaring bills and a disastrous deterioration in the quality of Wales's water.
2. Calls on the Welsh Government to:
a) formally request the enactment of section 48(1) of the Wales Act 2017, which would fully align the Senedd’s legislative competence over water with the geographic boundary of Wales;
b) formally request further powers over the licensing of sewage undertakers in Wales; and
c) introduce legislation within the current Senedd term to place the drainage and wastewater management plans of water companies in Wales on a statutory footing;
d) use its powers to require all strategic water infrastructure investment affecting Wales, including any transfers, to benefit Wales's communities and natural environment.
e) work with partners to secure the future of Welsh water resources by addressing all major pressures on them, namely from wastewater, urban runoff, misconnections, diffuse rural pollution, physical modifications, abandoned mines and invasive species.
f) provide additional funding to Nutrient Management Boards to accelerate their work in safeguarding water resources.
g) provide additional funding for capital grants for farmers to make infrastructure improvements that protect water resources.
h) increase the use of citizen science data in expanding our understanding of the pressures on water resources.
i) develop whole catchment consenting and strategic improvement approaches to national water resource management.
Agor y bleidlais. Cau'r bleidlais. O blaid 35, neb yn ymatal, 13 yn erbyn. Felly, mae’r cynnig yna wedi ei dderbyn.
Open the vote. Close the vote. In favour 35, no abstentions, 13 against. Therefore, the motion as amended is agreed.
Eitem 8. Dadl Plaid Cymru - Datganoli adnoddau dŵr yn llawn. Cynnig wedi'i ddiwygio: O blaid: 35, Yn erbyn: 13, Ymatal: 0
Derbyniwyd y cynnig fel y'i diwygiwyd
Item 8. Plaid Cymru Debate - Full devolution of water resources. Motion as amended: For: 35, Against: 13, Abstain: 0
Motion as amended has been agreed
Dyna ni ddiwedd ar y pleidleisio.
And that concludes voting.
Fe fyddwn ni yn mynd ymlaen yn awr i'r ddadl fer nesaf.
We will move now to the short debate.
I'll let Members leave the Chamber before I ask Buffy Williams to introduce her short debate. If Members are leaving—. Yes, I think Members who are leaving have left, and others are here to listen. Buffy Williams.
Gadawaf i'r Aelodau adael y Siambr cyn imi ofyn i Buffy Williams gyflwyno ei dadl fer. Os oes Aelodau'n gadael—. Rwy'n credu bod Aelodau sy'n gadael wedi gadael, ac mae eraill yma i wrando. Buffy Williams.
Diolch, Llywydd. I'd like to give a minute of my time to Sioned Williams and also Joyce Watson, if I could, please.
The founder of our national health service was Welsh. We have over 105,000 NHS staff, with over 70 per cent of them women. We have free prescriptions, unlike over the border, but what we don't have is a level playing field. We've heard time and time again in this Chamber, read in very many charity reports, and some of us have experienced first-hand, the impact of women's health inequalities in Wales. NHS Wales states that although women and girls make up over half of the Welsh population, women’s health and well-being is often undervalued and under-resourced, and there is a need to reduce health inequalities, improve equality of service and improve health outcomes for women in Wales.
We know from the quality statement of women's and girls' health that there are 29 health conditions where there is gender inequality, from asthma to dementia, heart disease and stroke, to gynaecological disorders and osteoporosis, to mental well-being, anxiety and depression. But there's also an inequality deep rooted in our culture, passed from generation to generation, that some conditions experienced by women are viewed as normal, or that it must just be in your head. Women in Wales have heard this for years, sometimes from other women, who’ve been told it enough that they start to believe it themselves, leading to a multitude of problems later in life.
The last time I stood here opening my short debate, I spoke about postpartum PTSD, an anxiety disorder that affects women, is very difficult to diagnose, and though we have the state-of-the-art mother and baby unit in Swansea bay, and the amazing charities who provide support, like Mothers Matter in Rhondda, there is really very little clinical long-term support available.
When I received notification from the Table Office that I had the opportunity to table another short debate, I felt it was only right to highlight another women's health condition. Premenstrual dysphoric disorder—PMDD—is another condition that affects women, is very difficult to diagnose, and though awareness and support has grown, more so than ever in recent years, it's still nowhere near the level that's needed to reach women who are suffering, clinicians to be able to diagnose those women and, therefore, help improve quality of life.
You'd be hard pressed to find a woman or girl in Wales who hasn't experienced cramps, mood swings, anxiety, irritability, bloating, breast tenderness, changes in appetite or headaches over the days leading to their period—all symptoms of premenstrual syndrome that affect women and girls Wales wide that are well-known and well-documented condition, with a number of treatments available. But there are women and girls who suffer a separate condition: PMDD.
Diolch, Lywydd. Hoffwn roi munud o fy amser i Sioned Williams a Joyce Watson hefyd, os caf.
Cymro oedd sylfaenydd ein gwasanaeth iechyd gwladol. Mae gennym dros 105,000 o staff GIG, a menywod yw dros 70 y cant ohonynt. Mae gennym bresgripsiynau am ddim, yn wahanol i dros y ffin, ond yr hyn nad oes gennym yw cydraddoldeb. Rydym wedi clywed dro ar ôl tro yn y Siambr hon am effaith anghydraddoldebau iechyd menywod yng Nghymru, rydym wedi darllen amdano mewn llawer iawn o adroddiadau gan elusennau, ac mae rhai ohonom wedi'i brofi ein hunain. Er mai menywod a merched yw dros hanner poblogaeth Cymru, dywed GIG Cymru nad yw iechyd a lles menywod yn cael ei werthfawrogi na'i ariannu ddigon, ac mae angen lleihau anghydraddoldebau iechyd, gwella cydraddoldeb gwasanaethau a gwella canlyniadau iechyd i fenywod yng Nghymru.
Gwyddom o'r datganiad ansawdd ar iechyd menywod a merched fod yna 29 o gyflyrau iechyd lle ceir anghydraddoldeb rhwng y rhywiau, o asthma i ddementia, clefyd y galon a strôc, i anhwylderau gynaecolegol ac osteoporosis, i les meddyliol, gorbryder ac iselder. Ond mae yna anghydraddoldeb wedi'i wreiddio'n ddwfn yn ein diwylliant hefyd, wedi'i drosglwyddo o genhedlaeth i genhedlaeth, fod rhai cyflyrau a brofir gan fenywod yn cael eu hystyried yn normal, neu mai ffrwyth dychymyg ydynt. Mae menywod yng Nghymru wedi clywed hyn ers blynyddoedd, weithiau gan fenywod eraill, sydd wedi ei glywed ddigon nes eu bod yn dechrau ei gredu eu hunain, gan arwain at lu o broblemau yn ddiweddarach mewn bywyd.
Y tro diwethaf imi sefyll yma yn agor fy nadl fer, siaradais am anhwylder straen wedi trawma ôl-enedigol, anhwylder gorbryder sy'n effeithio ar fenywod, un y mae'n anodd iawn gwneud diagnosis ohono, ac er bod gennym uned mamau a babanod o'r radd flaenaf ym mae Abertawe, a'r elusennau anhygoel sy'n darparu cymorth, fel Mothers Matter yn Rhondda, ychydig iawn o gymorth clinigol hirdymor sydd ar gael.
Pan gefais hysbysiad gan y Swyddfa Gyflwyno fy mod yn cael cyfle i gyflwyno dadl fer arall, teimlwn ei bod ond yn iawn tynnu sylw at gyflwr iechyd menywod arall. Mae anhwylder dysfforig cyn mislif—PMDD—yn gyflwr arall sy'n effeithio ar fenywod, ac un y mae'n anodd iawn gwneud diagnosis ohono, ac er bod ymwybyddiaeth a chefnogaeth wedi tyfu, yn fwy felly nag erioed yn ystod y blynyddoedd diwethaf, nid ydynt yn agos at y lefel sydd ei hangen i gyrraedd menywod sy'n dioddef, i glinigwyr allu gwneud diagnosis yn achos y menywod hynny a helpu felly i wella ansawdd bywyd.
Byddech yn cael trafferth dod o hyd i fenyw neu ferch yng Nghymru nad yw wedi profi crampiau, hwyliau cyfnewidiol, gorbryder, anniddigrwydd, stumog chwyddedig, bronnau poenus, newid archwaeth bwyd neu gur pen dros y dyddiau sy'n arwain at eu mislif—maent oll yn symptomau cyfarwydd o syndrom cyn mislif sy'n effeithio ar fenywod a merched ledled Cymru ac maent wedi'u dogfennu'n dda, gyda nifer o driniaethau ar gael. Ond mae yna fenywod a merched sy'n dioddef o gyflwr gwahanol: PMDD.
Daeth y Dirprwy Lywydd (David Rees) i’r Gadair.
The Deputy Presiding Officer (David Rees) took the Chair.
Due to unexplained heightened sensitivity to a spike in hormones, women and girls with PMDD can suffer for weeks, not just days, before their period. They experience symptoms of PMS, but far more severe, as well as additional symptoms of depression or hopelessness, anger or suicidal feelings. Physical symptoms can be debilitating, leading to being bed-bound, and women and girls end up missing work or school, missing important life events for family and friends. Mentally, symptoms will lead to major breakdowns over casual events, scenarios or comments that would be seen as ordinary on any other day. These symptoms can be felt for easily over 26 weeks of the year. They will play out on a continuous loop every month, like a tidal wave of torment that simply cannot be stopped.
The consequences on work and school life, or relationships and social life, are catastrophic. When the symptoms stop, the problems caused as a result—fights with friends or family, problems at school or work—don’t, only adding to the mental health worries. Through no fault of their own, women and girls are often suffering in silence with PMDD. It’s a fact that some women just put up with what they’re going through without seeking medical intervention, because they 'should be having a period' and 'periods should be difficult'.
I ran a survey for women in Rhondda prior to this debate, and I’d like to thank them all for taking part. Ninety-nine per cent of them reported that their period, and the time leading to their period, impacts negatively on their mental health and some have sought medical treatment. I was alarmed to read the sheer number of responses that went into great detail about the difficulties accessing healthcare. There’s a clear picture emerging that women don’t feel listened to, some saying they feel as though they’ve been fobbed off, others that they felt their healthcare professional wasn’t bothered, and a handful who said they felt they were wasting their healthcare professional’s time. More alarmingly than this, almost a third of women stated they were put off from seeking medical support as a result of hearing other women’s and girls’ experiences.
There’s a chronic lack of understanding among healthcare professionals in Wales, leading to misdiagnosis and wrong treatments for women suffering PMDD. The NHS website states very little about PMDD, including the condition as an addition to PMS. Some treatments for PMS do not make a jot of difference to women who suffer PMDD. Young women are told the only alternative is to have hysterectomies. We need to ensure there’s a very clear difference. If we don’t, women with PMDD will continue to feel lonely, isolated, angry and suicidal. Imagine how awful it must be trying to explain to family and friends how you feel without a diagnosis, trying to explain to work colleagues or managers about your symptoms without a diagnosis. This must change.
After suffering years of physical symptoms, including bloating, headaches, mastitis, fatigue and joint pain, trying every remedy that the GP recommended, including the pill, the Depo injection, and even the coil, being told that it is 'what women go through', being told I had PMS, and had I tried running, I gave up asking for help. I gave up trying to find answers. I would spend one week of every month living and the other three just existing—getting on with it as most women do. It wasn’t until I had my youngest daughter and spent a long period of time being cared for by health professionals who specialise in women’s health that I learned of PMDD. For months after having my daughter, I knew something was very wrong. My symptoms worsened. I was suffering so badly I didn’t want to leave the house. I had mood swings, I was irritable, I felt lost. My periods were no less than horrific. I was suffering after a traumatic birth and I had all the symptoms of PMDD. I was desperate. Speaking with my consultant, I explained the years of not really understanding what was happening to me. My life was on hold. As a last resort, I was left with no alternative than to undergo a hysterectomy at the age of 34. This was one of the most difficult decisions I have ever had to make. All the pros and cons were explained to me in detail, but, for me, there was only one choice. The way I explain my hysterectomy to others is that, before my surgery, I had horrific months of pain; after my surgery, my life completely changed, though I understand that this is not an option for all women and girls.
Due to the very little research, it's very difficult for women and girls to find information regarding PMDD. It was only less than five years ago that the World Health Organization added PMDD to the ICD-11, helping validate the condition as a legitimate health diagnosis. If it wasn't for the charity the International Association for Premenstrual Disorders, we would still be in the dark when it comes to PMDD. Thanks to IAPMD, there is a whole host of information available to women and girls who think they may be suffering with PMDD, from symptoms, practical steps towards diagnosis, right through to potential treatments and support groups.
On behalf of women and girls who suffer PMDD, I'd like the Minister to formally acknowledge that PMDD is a health condition in its own right and ensure that, in Wales, it's treated that way. We can take the first step very quickly by creating an individual webpage on the NHS website for the condition, not just a couple of sentences tagged on at the end of the PMS webpage. I'd like the Minister to help women and girls who may be suffering PMDD recognise the symptoms and help validate the condition. We need to end the additional anxiety and upset that comes with facing day-to-day events. A positive long-term action to take would be to run an awareness campaign, encompassing the public, private and third sectors to reach women across schools, workplaces and community groups Wales wide. This could incorporate a review of whether PMDD is included in enough detail when discussing the reproductive system in schools; inform women and girls how and what to prepare prior to an appointment for a diagnosis; inform sufferers, families and friends on how to help them cope; and promote the recently announced standard on menstrual health and menopause in the workplace.
Off the back of coverage in a popular soap opera recently, I can't think of a better time to kick-start this campaign. Given the strides made in very recent years, I'd like the Minister to hold meaningful discussions with the charity IAPMD, in partnership with primary and secondary care providers, to ensure that our caregivers are fully equipped with the very latest knowledge of PMDD, ensuring that if and when women and girls present to them, the best possible care and treatment is provided. Last but not least, I'd like the Minister to review what research is currently taking place in Wales into PMDD, with a view in the very near future to work with research partners and fund research of PMDD in Wales. There is currently no blood test to diagnose PMDD. Let's ensure we're at the forefront of this research in Wales. We have an amazing opportunity in front of us to be a nation that leads on women's and girls' health. PMDD must be part of this in its own right to save lives.
Oherwydd cynnydd anesboniadwy yn y sensitifrwydd i ymchwydd hormonaidd, gall menywod a merched â PMDD ddioddef am wythnosau cyn eu mislif, nid dyddiau'n unig. Maent yn profi symptomau syndrom cyn mislif (PMS), ond yn llawer mwy difrifol, yn ogystal â symptomau ychwanegol fel iselder neu anobaith, dicter neu deimladau hunanladdol. Gall symptomau corfforol fod yn wanychol, gan arwain at orfod aros yn y gwely, ac mae menywod a merched yn colli gwaith neu ysgol, a digwyddiadau bywyd pwysig i deulu a ffrindiau. Yn feddyliol, bydd symptomau'n arwain at chwalfa dros ddigwyddiadau, senarios neu sylwadau dibwys a fyddai'n cael eu hystyried yn gyffredin ar unrhyw ddiwrnod arall. Mae'n hollol bosibl y bydd y sawl sy'n dioddef yn teimlo'r symptomau hyn am 26 wythnos o'r flwyddyn. Byddant yn digwydd ar ddolen barhaus bob mis, fel ton fawr o ofid na ellir ei rhwystro.
Mae'r canlyniadau ar waith a bywyd ysgol, neu berthnasoedd a bywyd cymdeithasol, yn drychinebus. Pan fydd y symptomau'n dod i ben, ni ddaw'r problemau a achosir o ganlyniad iddynt i ben—ffraeo gyda ffrindiau neu deulu, problemau yn yr ysgol neu'r gwaith—gan ychwanegu at y pryderon iechyd meddwl. Heb unrhyw fai arnynt eu hunain, mae menywod a merched yn aml yn dioddef yn dawel gyda PMDD. Mae'n ffaith bod rhai menywod yn goddef yr hyn yr ânt drwyddo heb geisio ymyrraeth feddygol, oherwydd 'maent i fod i gael mislif' ac 'mae mislif i fod yn anodd'.
Cynhaliais arolwg ar gyfer menywod yn Rhondda cyn y ddadl hon, a hoffwn ddiolch iddynt i gyd am gymryd rhan. Dywedodd 99 y cant ohonynt fod eu mislif, a'r amser sy'n arwain at eu mislif, yn effeithio'n negyddol ar eu hiechyd meddwl ac mae rhai wedi gofyn am driniaeth feddygol. Roedd yn frawychus darllen y nifer fawr o ymatebion manwl a gafwyd am yr anawsterau rhag cael mynediad at ofal iechyd. Mae darlun clir yn dod i'r amlwg nad yw menywod yn teimlo'u bod yn cael eu clywed, gyda rhai'n dweud eu bod yn teimlo eu bod wedi cael eu diystyru, eraill yn teimlo nad oedd eu gweithiwr gofal iechyd proffesiynol yn malio, a llond llaw'n dweud eu bod yn teimlo eu bod yn gwastraffu amser eu gweithiwr gofal iechyd proffesiynol. Yn fwy brawychus na hyn, dywedodd bron i draean o fenywod eu bod wedi penderfynu peidio â gofyn am gymorth meddygol o ganlyniad i glywed am brofiadau menywod a merched eraill.
Mae yna ddiffyg dealltwriaeth cronig ymhlith gweithwyr gofal iechyd proffesiynol yng Nghymru, sy'n arwain at gamddiagnosis a thriniaethau anghywir i fenywod sy'n dioddef o PMDD. Nid yw gwefan y GIG yn dweud fawr ddim am PMDD, gan gynnwys y cyflwr fel atodiad i PMS. Nid yw rhai triniaethau ar gyfer PMS yn gwneud unrhyw wahaniaeth i fenywod sy'n dioddef o PMDD. Dywedir wrth fenywod ifanc mai'r unig ddewis arall yw cael hysterectomi. Mae'n rhaid inni sicrhau bod yna wahaniaeth clir. Os na wnawn hynny, bydd menywod â PMDD yn parhau i deimlo'n unig, yn ynysig, yn flin ac yn hunanladdol. Dychmygwch pa mor ofnadwy yw ceisio egluro wrth deulu a ffrindiau sut rydych chi'n teimlo heb ddiagnosis, ceisio esbonio i gydweithwyr neu reolwyr am eich symptomau heb ddiagnosis. Rhaid i hyn newid.
Ar ôl dioddef blynyddoedd o symptomau corfforol, gan gynnwys stumog chwyddedig, cur pen, mastitis, blinder a phoen yn y cymalau, a rhoi cynnig ar bob ateb a argymhellwyd gan y meddyg teulu, gan gynnwys y bilsen, y pigiad Depo, a hyd yn oed y coil, clywed mai 'dyma mae menywod yn mynd drwyddo', clywed mai PMS oedd arnaf, ac a oeddwn i wedi rhoi cynnig ar redeg, rhoddais y gorau i ofyn am help. Fe roddais y gorau i geisio dod o hyd i atebion. Byddwn yn treulio wythnos o bob mis yn byw a'r tair arall yn bodoli'n unig—yn bwrw ymlaen â phethau fel y mae'r rhan fwyaf o fenywod yn ei wneud. Nid tan i mi gael fy merch ieuengaf a threulio cyfnod hir o amser yn cael gofal gan weithwyr iechyd proffesiynol sy'n arbenigo mewn iechyd menywod y dysgais am PMDD. Am fisoedd ar ôl cael fy merch, roeddwn i'n gwybod bod rhywbeth o'i le. Fe wnaeth fy symptomau waethygu. Roeddwn yn dioddef mor wael fel nad oeddwn eisiau gadael y tŷ. Roedd fy hwyliau'n gyfnewidiol, roeddwn i'n anniddig, roeddwn i'n teimlo ar goll. Roedd fy mislif yn ddychrynllyd. Roeddwn yn dioddef ar ôl genedigaeth drawmatig ac roedd gennyf holl symptomau PMDD. Roeddwn yn teimlo'n ddiobaith. Wrth siarad gyda fy meddyg ymgynghorol, eglurais am y blynyddoedd o fethu deall yn iawn beth oedd yn digwydd i mi. Roedd fy mywyd wedi dod i stop. Fel dewis olaf, cefais fy ngadael heb unrhyw ddewis arall heblaw cael hysterectomi yn 34 oed. Hwn oedd un o'r penderfyniadau anoddaf i mi ei wneud erioed. Esboniwyd yr holl fanteision ac anfanteision i mi'n fanwl, ond i mi, dim ond un dewis oedd. Y ffordd rwy'n egluro fy hysterectomi i eraill yw, cyn fy llawdriniaeth, roeddwn yn cael misoedd erchyll o boen; ar ôl fy llawdriniaeth, newidiodd fy mywyd yn llwyr, er fy mod yn deall nad yw hyn yn opsiwn i bob menyw a merch.
Oherwydd mai ychydig iawn o ymchwil a wnaed, mae'n anodd iawn i fenywod a merched ddod o hyd i wybodaeth am PMDD. Lai na phum mlynedd yn ôl yr ychwanegodd Sefydliad Iechyd y Byd PMDD at y dosbarthiad rhyngwladol o glefydau, ICD-11, gan helpu i ddilysu'r cyflwr fel diagnosis iechyd dilys. Oni bai am yr elusen, y Gymdeithas Ryngwladol ar gyfer Anhwylderau Cyn Mislif (IAPMD), byddem yn dal i fod yn y tywyllwch ynglŷn â PMDD. Diolch i IAPMD, mae llwyth o wybodaeth ar gael i fenywod a merched sy'n credu y gallent fod yn dioddef o PMDD, o symptomau, camau ymarferol tuag at ddiagnosis, i driniaethau posibl a grwpiau cymorth.
Ar ran menywod a merched sy'n dioddef o PMDD, hoffwn i'r Gweinidog gydnabod yn ffurfiol bod PMDD yn gyflwr iechyd yn ei hawl ei hun a sicrhau ei fod yn cael ei drin felly yng Nghymru. Gallwn gymryd y cam cyntaf yn gyflym iawn trwy greu tudalen we unigol ar wefan y GIG ar gyfer y cyflwr, nid dim ond ychwanegu un neu ddwy o frawddegau ar ddiwedd y dudalen we ar PMS. Hoffwn i'r Gweinidog helpu menywod a merched a allai fod yn dioddef o PMDD i adnabod y symptomau a helpu i ddilysu'r cyflwr. Mae angen inni roi diwedd ar y pryder a'r gofid ychwanegol sy'n deillio o wynebu digwyddiadau bob dydd. Camau cadarnhaol hirdymor i'w cymryd fyddai cynnal ymgyrch ymwybyddiaeth, gan gynnwys y sector cyhoeddus, y sector preifat a'r trydydd sector i gyrraedd menywod ar draws ysgolion, gweithleoedd a grwpiau cymunedol ledled Cymru. Gallai hyn gynnwys adolygiad i weld a yw PMDD yn cael ei gynnwys yn ddigon manwl wrth drafod y system atgenhedlu mewn ysgolion; hysbysu menywod a merched sut i baratoi a beth i'w baratoi cyn apwyntiad ar gyfer diagnosis; rhoi gwybod i ddioddefwyr, teuluoedd a ffrindiau sut i'w helpu i ymdopi; a hyrwyddo'r safon a gyhoeddwyd yn ddiweddar ar iechyd mislif a menopos yn y gweithle.
Yn dilyn y sylw a gafodd yr anhwylder mewn opera sebon boblogaidd yn ddiweddar, ni allaf feddwl am amser gwell i ddechrau'r ymgyrch hon. O ystyried y camau breision a wnaed yn ystod y blynyddoedd diwethaf, hoffwn i'r Gweinidog gynnal trafodaethau ystyrlon gyda'r elusen IAPMD mewn partneriaeth â darparwyr gofal sylfaenol ac eilaidd, i sicrhau bod gan ein rhoddwyr gofal yr wybodaeth ddiweddaraf am PMDD, gan wneud yn siŵr, os a phan fydd menywod a merched yn dod atynt, fod y gofal a'r driniaeth orau sy'n bosibl yn cael ei darparu. Yn olaf, ond nid yn lleiaf, hoffwn i'r Gweinidog adolygu pa ymchwil sy'n digwydd ar hyn o bryd yng Nghymru ar PMDD, gyda'r bwriad yn y dyfodol agos iawn o weithio gyda phartneriaid ymchwil ac ariannu ymchwil PMDD yng Nghymru. Ar hyn o bryd nid oes prawf gwaed ar gyfer gwneud diagnosis o PMDD. Gadewch inni sicrhau ein bod ar flaen y gad yn y maes ymchwil hwn yng Nghymru. Dyma gyfle gwych i fod yn genedl sy'n arwain ar iechyd menywod a merched. Rhaid i PMDD fod yn rhan o hyn yn ei hawl ei hun er mwyn achub bywydau.
Thanks, Buffy, for bringing this debate and speaking so honestly about your own experience. PMDD is sometimes misdiagnosed, as you said, as depression, anxiety or bipolar disorder, and this is due to that lack of understanding of the condition, and I was glad to sponsor the recent event—I know you came along—in the Senedd to raise awareness about PMDD, supported by the International Association for Premenstrual Disorders, the National Centre for Mental Health and researchers from Cardiff University. That event was organised by Becci Smart, who is one of my constituents from Bridgend, who has lived with PMDD since she was 14, and she had to wait 18 years for diagnosis and treatment. I'm glad to say that Becci is now working on submitting a petition to the Senedd on some practical changes, like some of the ones you mentioned, so we can make some changes to education, to healthcare training and to treatment so that this can be overcome. So, we will keep hearing about this in the Senedd, hopefully, until more action is taken, because we do have to see PMDD in a wider frame, as you said, of women's health conditions, and make sure that it's given the attention it deserves. We simply don't know enough about conditions like this, and we don't speak enough about them. And hopefully, now, that is changing. So, let's keep speaking about them. Let's keep ensuring we raise awareness, so we increase our knowledge through investing in research, and listen to the women, like you, like Becci, who tell us about the struggles and heartbreak that cyclical hormone-based mood disorders can cause.
Diolch, Buffy, am gyflwyno'r ddadl hon a siarad mor onest am eich profiad eich hun. Fel roeddech chi'n dweud, weithiau caiff PMDD ei gamddiagnosio fel iselder, gorbryder neu anhwylder deubegynol, a hynny oherwydd diffyg dealltwriaeth o'r cyflwr, ac roeddwn yn falch o noddi'r digwyddiad yn y Senedd yn ddiweddar—rwy'n gwybod eich bod wedi'i fynychu—i godi ymwybyddiaeth o PMDD, gyda chefnogaeth y Gymdeithas Ryngwladol ar gyfer Anhwylderau Cyn Mislif, y Ganolfan Genedlaethol ar gyfer Iechyd Meddwl ac ymchwilwyr o Brifysgol Caerdydd. Cafodd y digwyddiad hwnnw ei drefnu gan Becci Smart, sy'n un o fy etholwyr ym Mhen-y-bont ar Ogwr, ac sydd wedi byw gyda PMDD er pan oedd yn 14 oed, a bu'n rhaid iddi aros 18 mlynedd am ddiagnosis a thriniaeth. Rwy'n falch o ddweud bod Becci bellach yn gweithio ar gyflwyno deiseb i'r Senedd ar newidiadau ymarferol, fel rhai o'r pethau y sonioch chi amdanynt, er mwyn inni allu gwneud newidiadau i addysg, i hyfforddiant gofal iechyd ac i driniaeth fel y gellir goresgyn hyn. Felly, byddwn yn parhau i glywed am hyn yn y Senedd, gobeithio, hyd nes y caiff rhagor o gamau eu rhoi ar waith, oherwydd fel y dywedoch chi, mae'n rhaid i ni weld PMDD o fewn ffrâm ehangach cyflyrau iechyd menywod, a sicrhau ei fod yn cael y sylw y mae'n ei haeddu. Nid ydym yn gwybod digon am gyflyrau fel hyn, ac nid ydym yn siarad digon amdanynt. A gobeithio bod hynny'n newid nawr. Felly, gadewch inni barhau i siarad amdanynt. Gadewch inni barhau i sicrhau ein bod yn codi ymwybyddiaeth, fel ein bod yn cynyddu ein gwybodaeth trwy fuddsoddi mewn ymchwil, a gwrando ar y menywod, fel chi, fel Becci, sy'n dweud wrthym am y trafferthion a'r gofid y gall anhwylderau hormonaidd cylchol sy'n effeithio ar dymer eu hachosi.
I want to thank Buffy for bringing this debate today, and for sharing so honestly her own situation as was. And we've all heard it growing up, 'Oh, it's that time of the month' or 'She's a bit moody, take no notice.' And those things, you still hear them, sadly. And people still believe those things. And it's just a lack of education. I know that we're giving education in schools now, so that girls should understand what a good period is, and that can only be to the advantage of those young girls growing up, and to their families, because they in turn can take it if they know their mother suffers, or their auntie or their sister.
But I think what is being asked for today is a particular focus that goes further, and I support that. And also, to help those people who are giving that education, but those people who are giving some diagnoses and treatment as well. So, I applaud you for your honesty in bringing this forward, and isn't it wonderful how often now we talk about specific issues of women's health that have not ever been spoken about in this Chamber before?
Hoffwn ddiolch i Buffy am gyflwyno'r ddadl hon heddiw, ac am rannu ei sefyllfa ei hun mor onest. Ac rydym i gyd wedi'i glywed wrth dyfu i fyny, 'O, mae'n adeg o'r mis' neu 'Mae hi braidd yn ddi-hwyl, peidiwch â chymryd unrhyw sylw.' Ac yn anffodus, rydych chi'n dal i glywed y pethau hynny. Ac mae pobl yn dal i gredu'r pethau hynny. A diffyg addysg yw hynny. Rwy'n gwybod ein bod yn rhoi addysg mewn ysgolion nawr, fel y gall merched ddeall beth yw mislif da, ac mae hynny o fudd i'r merched ifanc hyn wrth iddynt dyfu i fyny, ac i'w teuluoedd, oherwydd gallant hwy yn eu tro ei gymryd os ydynt yn gwybod bod eu mam yn dioddef, neu eu modryb neu eu chwaer.
Ond rwy'n credu mai'r hyn y gofynnir amdano heddiw yw ffocws penodol sy'n mynd ymhellach, ac rwy'n cefnogi hynny. A hefyd, i helpu'r bobl sy'n rhoi'r addysg honno, a'r bobl sy'n rhoi diagnosis a thriniaeth hefyd. Felly, rwy'n eich canmol am eich gonestrwydd wrth gyflwyno hyn, ac onid yw'n wych pa mor aml y siaradwn am faterion penodol yn ymwneud ag iechyd menywod nawr, pethau nad ydynt erioed wedi cael eu trafod yn y Siambr hon o'r blaen?
A galwaf ar y Gweinidog Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol, Eluned Morgan, i ymateb i'r ddadl.
And I call on the Minister for Health and Social Services, Eluned Morgan, to reply to the debate.
Well, diolch yn fawr. I'm really grateful to Buffy for bringing this debate to us today. And this is part of a series of issues on women's health, and I'm just incredibly grateful to you in particular for sharing your own experience and that of your constituents, because, actually, it's the colour that makes people sit up and realise that it's not something abstract; it's something that happens to people that we all know. And I think it is important for us to recognise that there are over, probably—it's estimated—53,000 women in Wales who live with premenstrual dysphoric disorder. And I think it is a condition that needs to be considered in its own right.
It's a hormone-based mood disorder. It's caused by an abnormal brain reaction to normal changes in hormones across the menstrual cycle, and symptoms usually occur one or two weeks before the menstrual period starts, and are only present during that time. Common symptoms include anger, irritability, depression, anxiety, and all of these things, of course, can interfere with their daily activities. But those people who've got the disorder are at an increased risk of suicide, and we've got to take that seriously. This is a very, very serious condition, and I think it's very important that people start to recognise that.
So, I'm going to look into your suggestion about what more we can do on websites. Obviously, it would be better to get them on the health boards' websites, but that's certainly something that I could encourage them to do, and we can certainly look at what we can do maybe on the 111 website.
So, for women and girls with this disorder, it can have a massive impact on their lives every single month. And the condition can be diagnosed through tracking daily symptoms for at least two menstrual cycles, and there's a range of clinical treatments and options available, often requiring the support of primary and secondary care, and sometimes, mental health services, to ensure that both the physical and the emotional support can be effectively managed. And in the current 'Together for Mental Health' plan, there has been an increase in funding to improve access to a range of psychological therapies.
I think there's been insufficient recognition of premenstrual dysphoric disorder and the devastating impact that it can have. I think women have been unaware of the symptoms. So many women just put up with it. And it's not something that you need to put up with, and it is something that you can seek support and help for. But, actually, people need to be told it's not normal to have to put up with this. There is an educative role here, and the new curriculum will allow that to happen. So, I think we have to make sure that there's better training and awareness about the condition, including amongst practitioners that, perhaps, hinder early diagnosis and treatment. We need them to know that early access can help and change their lives.
Wel, diolch yn fawr. Rwy'n ddiolchgar iawn i Buffy am gyflwyno'r ddadl hon i ni heddiw. Ac mae hyn yn rhan o gyfres o faterion yn ymwneud ag iechyd menywod, ac rwy'n hynod ddiolchgar i chi, yn enwedig am rannu eich profiad eich hun a phrofiad eich etholwyr, oherwydd dyna'r lliw sy'n gwneud i bobl wrando a sylweddoli nad rhywbeth haniaethol ydyw; mae'n rhywbeth sy'n digwydd i bobl y mae pawb ohonom yn eu hadnabod. Ac rwy'n credu ei bod hi'n bwysig inni gydnabod bod—amcangyfrifir bod—53,000 o fenywod yng Nghymru yn byw gydag anhwylder dysfforig cyn mislif. Ac rwy'n credu ei fod yn gyflwr y mae angen ei ystyried yn ei hawl ei hun.
Mae'n anhwylder hormonaidd sy'n effeithio ar dymer. Caiff ei achosi gan adwaith annormal yn yr ymennydd i newidiadau hormonaidd normal ar draws y cylch mislif, ac fel arfer mae symptomau'n digwydd wythnos neu bythefnos cyn i'r mislif ddechrau, ac yn ystod yr amser hwnnw'n unig y byddant i'w teimlo. Mae symptomau cyffredin yn cynnwys dicter, anniddigrwydd, iselder ysbryd, gorbryder, a gall yr holl bethau hyn darfu ar eu gweithgareddau dyddiol wrth gwrs. Ond mae'r bobl sy'n dioddef o'r anhwylder mewn mwy o berygl o hunanladdiad, ac mae'n rhaid inni fod o ddifrif ynglŷn â hynny. Mae hwn yn gyflwr difrifol tu hwnt, ac rwy'n credu ei bod yn bwysig iawn i bobl ddechrau cydnabod hynny.
Felly, rwy'n mynd i edrych ar eich awgrym ynglŷn â beth arall y gallwn ei wneud ar wefannau. Yn amlwg, byddai'n well eu cael ar wefannau'r byrddau iechyd, ond mae hynny'n sicr yn rhywbeth y gallwn eu hannog i'w wneud, ac yn sicr gallwn edrych ar yr hyn y gallwn ni ei wneud ar wefan 111 o bosibl.
Felly, i fenywod a merched sydd â'r anhwylder hwn, gall gael effaith enfawr ar eu bywydau bob mis. A gellir gwneud diagnosis o'r cyflwr trwy olrhain symptomau dyddiol am o leiaf ddau gylch mislif, ac mae ystod o driniaethau ac opsiynau clinigol ar gael, sy'n aml yn galw am gymorth gofal sylfaenol ac eilaidd, a gwasanaethau iechyd meddwl weithiau, i sicrhau y gellir rheoli'r cymorth corfforol ac emosiynol yn effeithiol. Ac yn y cynllun 'Law yn Llaw at Iechyd Meddwl' presennol, cafwyd cyllid ychwanegol i wella mynediad at ystod o therapïau seicolegol.
Nid wyf yn credu bod digon o gydnabyddiaeth wedi'i rhoi i anhwylder dysfforig cyn mislif a'r effaith ddinistriol y gall ei chael. Nid wyf yn credu bod menywod wedi bod yn ymwybodol o'r symptomau. Mae cymaint o fenywod yn ei oddef heb wneud dim yn ei gylch. Nid yw'n rhywbeth y mae angen i chi ei oddef heb wneud dim yn ei gylch, ac mae'n rhywbeth y gallwch ofyn am gymorth a help ar ei gyfer. Ond mewn gwirionedd, mae angen dweud wrth bobl nad yw goddef hyn yn normal. Mae yna rôl addysgiadol yma, a bydd y cwricwlwm newydd yn caniatáu i hynny ddigwydd. Felly, rwy'n credu bod yn rhaid inni sicrhau bod gwell hyfforddiant ac ymwybyddiaeth o'r cyflwr, yn cynnwys ymhlith ymarferwyr sydd, efallai, yn rhwystr i ddiagnosis a thriniaeth gynnar. Mae angen iddynt wybod y gall mynediad cynnar helpu a newid eu bywydau.
Mae gwaith wedi cael ei wneud i sicrhau ein bod ni'n cyrraedd y nod hwn. Ym mis Gorffennaf y llynedd, mi wnes i gyhoeddi'r datganiad ansawdd ar gyfer iechyd menywod a merched. Ac mae'r datganiad hwn yn nodi beth yw disgwyliadau Llywodraeth Cymru ar gyfer yr NHS o ran sicrhau ein bod ni'n cynnig gwasanaeth iechyd sydd o ansawdd i fenywod yma yng Nghymru. Ac, ym mis Rhagfyr, mi wnaeth y gwasanaeth iechyd gyhoeddi yr adroddiad darganfod. Mae'r adroddiad hwn wedi rhoi—. Mae tua 3,800 o fenywod wedi gwneud rhywbeth yn ymwneud â'r ymgynghoriad yma, felly mae wedi dylanwadu ar yr ymgynghoriad. Y cam nesaf nawr yw sefydlu rhwydwaith clinigol iechyd menywod. So, yr NHS biau hwn. Mae'n bwysig nawr eu bod nhw'n cymryd y cyfle i gymryd hwn ymlaen.
Work has been done to ensure that we reach this aim. In July of last year, I published the quality statement for women and girls' health. And that statement notes the Welsh Government's expectations of the NHS in terms of ensuring that we do provide a health service of high quality to women here in Wales. And, in December, the NHS published its findings report. This report has—. About 3,800 women have interacted with that consultation in some way, so it has influenced the consultation. The next step now is to establish a women's health clinical network. So, the NHS owns this, and it's important that they take the opportunity to take this forward.
I do want to assure you that what I'll do after this debate is I will ask the NHS network that is looking at women's health whether they can look at this specifically, whether they, perhaps, can get in touch with the charity that you mentioned—was it the IAPMD? So, I'm going to make that commitment, and I'll see if they're prepared to do that.
And just on the research, I have asked my officials to see what we can do to shift resources into women's health, because that needs to happen. Enough is enough. We need something to happen when it comes to research. So, I've asked for that to happen, and I'm waiting for a response on that.
Rwyf am eich sicrhau mai'r hyn a wnaf ar ôl y ddadl hon yw gofyn i rwydwaith y GIG sy'n edrych ar iechyd menywod weld a allant edrych yn benodol ar hyn, a gweld a allent gysylltu â'r elusen y sonioch chi amdani—ai IAPMD oedd hi? Felly, rwy'n mynd i wneud yr ymrwymiad hwnnw, a chaf weld a ydynt yn barod i wneud hynny.
Ac ar yr ymchwil, rwyf wedi gofyn i fy swyddogion weld beth y gallwn ei wneud i symud adnoddau at iechyd menywod, oherwydd mae angen i hynny ddigwydd. Digon yw digon. Mae angen i rywbeth ddigwydd mewn perthynas ag ymchwil. Felly, rwyf wedi gofyn i hynny ddigwydd, ac rwy'n aros am ymateb ar hynny.
Ym mis Chwefror eleni, cyhoeddodd Llywodraeth Cymru gynllun gweithredu 'Cymru sy'n falch o'r mislif', ac uchelgais y cynllun yw cael gwared ar dlodi mislif. Hefyd, mae e'n herio'r arfer o normaleiddio'r symptomau mae menywod yn eu cael pan dŷn nhw ddim yn normal. So, mae'n rili bwysig. Ac mae hwnna'n cynnwys symptomau sy'n gysylltiedig ag anhwylder dysfforig cyn mislif.
In February of this year, the Welsh Government published the action plan 'Period Proud Wales', and the ambition is to eradicate period poverty. Also, it challenges the practice of normalising symptoms that women experience when they aren't normal symptoms. So, that's really important. That includes symptoms related to premenstrual dysphoric disorder.
There you are, that's what it is in Welsh, PMDD.
So, I'm really pleased that you brought this to our attention today. I've made some commitments here, and I will follow those through, and I want you to hold me to them and make sure that I follow them through. I just want to reassure you that I'm not letting go of the issue of women’s health on my watch. Diolch yn fawr.
Dyna chi, dyna beth yw PMDD yn Gymraeg, anhwylder dysfforig cyn mislif.
Felly, rwy'n falch eich bod wedi tynnu ein sylw at hyn heddiw. Rwyf wedi gwneud ymrwymiadau yma, a byddaf yn mynd ar drywydd y rheini, ac rwyf am i chi fy nwyn i gyfrif a sicrhau fy mod yn mynd ar eu trywydd. Rwyf am eich sicrhau na fyddaf yn gollwng fy ngafael ar iechyd menywod tra byddaf yn y swydd hon. Diolch yn fawr.
Diolch, Weinidog. A daw hynny â thrafodion heddiw i ben.
I thank the Minister. And that brings today's proceedings to a close.
Daeth y cyfarfod i ben am 18:23.
The meeting ended at 18:23.