National Assembly for Wales

This meeting is being broadcast live on Senedd.tv and the Record of Proceedings will be published as usual. We have received apologies from Vaughan Gething, and Lindsay Whittle is attending as a substitute for Luke Fletcher. Welcome, Lindsay, to our Petitions Committee.

Thank you, Chair. 

Would any Member like to declare an interest now? Or at any relevant time during the meeting is fine also. So, are there any declarations of interest? No. Okay. No declarations of interest. Thank you.

We'll move on to new petitions, and the first one is item 2.1, petition P-06-1537, 'We require a public poll on 20 mph speed limits as the Welsh people are being ignored'. It reads,

'The speed limit petition has been ignored by those in power, the only way to properly gauge feeling from the people would be to have a public poll of all Welsh voters, and, when it is realised how hated the 20 mph limits are, then they should be changed back to 30mph immediately. 

'The promise of the Senedd listening was yet another lie from politicians too self-absorbed to listen to the voters. We have now seen many other speed limits also reduced, which also need returning to the previous limits.'

Okay. I think the petitioner here is referring, for example, to the one on the M4, which is set at 50 mph, and others. This was submitted by Martyn Evans, with 2,387 signatures. Could I bring Rhys in to discuss the petition and any actions you think the committee should take?

Diolch yn fawr, Gadeirydd. I think that it's fair to say that this issue has been probably the most discussed topic during this Senedd term—probably inside and outside of the Senedd. It would be fair to admit that we've received several hundreds of e-mails on this very topic. We have to acknowledge that there have been strong feelings on both sides of this argument. There has been an acknowledgement by Welsh Government that perhaps the roll-out could have been done better, that some mistakes were made. And in response to that strong feeling—and I think one of the petitions that we had on this matter had the most signatures ever—but in response to that level of feeling, the Welsh Government and local authorities have been reviewing roads, have been reviewing feedback from local residents. I don't think there's anything more this committee can do. As I've mentioned, it's been regularly debated. Questions are still being raised in Plenary on this matter, and of course, next May, members of the public will have an opportunity to support certain parties that plan to reverse the agenda. That's not an endorsement of the Conservative Party or any other party. But, of course, there will be an opportunity for the public, if they feel so strongly on the matter, to put their cross next to a party that supports their viewpoint. Therefore, I'd thank the petitioner and close the petition.

Thank you, Rhys. Joel, would you like to come in?

Thank you, Chair. Just to confirm my colleague's comments, really, that the Welsh Conservatives are the only political party so far to confirm they want to reverse this, so I would urge anyone who's not happy with the 20 mph roll-out to exercise that at the ballot box next year, really.

Okay, thank you, Joel. Lindsay.

I must say, Chair, that I was one of those, actually, who wasn't in favour of this limit because I thought it was ill-thought-out, and I was criticised at the time for being a councillor who was opportunistic, I think I was called by the Minister at the time, because I feel that we have better cars on the road today with much better braking systems than we've ever had. However, I have to acknowledge the elephant on the doorstep that does clearly prove that accidents are down, and that's, obviously, very positive. I don't think any road in Wales is safe from a drunken driver or from a driver who is high on drugs, and I think that's where we should be clamping down a lot more.

I'm very critical of police authorities, for example, who site their speed guns and vans constantly in the same place, where they know they will have easy targets. They should be, in fact, using random streets all over our communities and that, in my opinion, is the better way to reduce speed, because it will teach drivers to be wary on every single road that they travel, not the one where they know the speed camera is always located.

But, saying that, I think I'd have to agree with the action that my colleague Rhys ab Owen has suggested, that, for now, we perhaps wait and see what is in political parties' manifestos. It is always open to every single member of the public in your street, if you wish, to call for a petition for the council to look at the speed limit. Good luck, I would suggest, to anyone who goes down any street where people live calling for traffic speed to increase, because you won't get the support then, and that's the issue. So, I would agree with Rhys ab Owen for the moment and keep my powder dry on my still principle that I didn't really support this 20 mph ban.

Joel, do you want to come back in?

Yes, thank you, Chair. I just wanted to agree with Lindsay there in terms of the drug and drunk driving. I definitely think more needs to be done to tackle that. But I think we also have to be careful when we look at the figures about the reductions, because that just follows a natural downward trend that was already happening. But when we record the information, they lump 30 mph roads in with 20 mph roads still, so you're never going to get an accurate impression of just 20 mph roads alone, really. So, I'd always urge caution when looking at the figures there because that was already coming down anyway.

Thank you. I'm going to have to pause the meeting while we sort out Rhys's mike. Rhys, your microphone isn't working, so we're just pausing the meeting temporarily.

Welcome back to the Petitions Committee meeting. We just had a few technical issues.

Thank you for your contributions. I was a cabinet member in charge of highways, and I was concerned regarding the roll-out of the 20 mph, because we did a speed limit review in Flintshire council and it took us between five and eight years to actually do it, consulting on every road. It's a very time-consuming process to do, and to advertise and to consult with everybody. So, I thought there might be a few issues, but it was in the programme for government that had been agreed, I think, in a previous Senedd. So, going forward, I think it's been agreed that there's nothing more we can do at the moment. People can petition their local authorities to look at individual speed limits if they would like to, and we encourage people to look at manifestos, going forward. Okay. Thank you.

The next one is 2.2, petition P-06-1541, 'Produce a Clean Water Bill for Wales and for Welsh Rivers':

'Our rivers are crying out for help. We do not have long before it will be too late to save them.

'For too long, legislators, regulators and polluters have talked about protecting our rivers but nothing meaningful is ever done.

'We are calling on Members of the Senedd to commit to producing a Clean Water Bill for Wales.'

This was submitted by Save the River Usk, with 1,300 signatures. Rhys, could I invite you again to discuss the petition and any actions that you wish the committee to take? Hopefully your microphone's working okay for you now.

Diolch yn fawr, Cadeirydd. Well, again, like the last petition, this is another petition, or we've had similar petitions to this one, and it's a topic that is mentioned regularly on the floor of the Senedd. I know that our colleague Jane Dodds had an event last week with regard to a clean water Bill. I've got much sympathy with this petition. For decades, we were told that our waterways were becoming cleaner and then, all of a sudden, we find out that that is not the case and that things are getting worse now.

Of course, realistically, with the timing of the Senedd and where we're at with the Senedd term, we will not be able to pass a Bill of this nature. Of course, we do have the environment Bill. I know that the petitioners have raised some issues with that and they've raised many questions. I think we should highlight that to the Cabinet Secretary who is leading on the environment Bill. I think we should also include this issue as a matter in our legacy report, to present it to the next Senedd, because this is not something that is going away. I would imagine that, in the next Senedd, this matter will be raised on a number of occasions then also. But, for now, I don't think there's anything more that this committee can do other than to thank the petitioner and to close the petition.

Thank you. Joel.

Thank you, Chair. Just for the record, I'm the Senedd species champion for seagrass, and one of the major issues of why there's a decline in seagrass meadows in the UK is because of water quality. And I just want to add my agreement with Rhys here—it would be great if we could get some assurances that the next committee would then take that legacy report on as something that they would actively look into, actually, because, as Rhys said, we just don't have the time now to bring in a Bill of this magnitude. It could be tacked onto the environmental Bill that's going through, but I think something as serious as this needs its own Bill and its own scrutiny, really.

Later on, we're discussing a petition on nature-based flooding solutions, aren't we, as well, which is very similar? I know the Government is looking at things such as nitrate vulnerable zones, at all of Wales as a nitrate vulnerable zone, phosphates, SuDS drainage, and there's the SFS natural flood management, and planting of trees along river edges. There seems to be a lot that's happening or proposed, so we just need to keep that watchful eye and hope that it's taken forward. So, I agree with you that including it in a legacy report, water quality and flood management together, is something that we should do.

It was also being suggested that we highlight the petitioner's concerns to the Cabinet Secretary, because, at the moment, we're doing the environment Bill. Perhaps also we could send a note to the Chair of the Climate Change, Environment and Infrastructure Committee, who are doing the Bill. We're actually looking at the second stage on Thursday. I know Joyce Watson raises this issue very often, and she's on that committee as well. Okay. Thank you.

Moving on to 2.3, petition P-06-1549 'Urgent Support for Hirwaun, Wales, Homeowners Affected by Reinforced Autoclaved Aerated Concrete', known commonly as RAAC. The petition reads,

'In February 2024, RAAC was discovered in 77 homes on Hirwaun’s Gower Estate, 14 of which are privately owned through the Right to Buy scheme. Residents now face average costs of £23,000 for a temporary fix, while contending with invalid insurance policies and unfair mortgage terms. RAAC is unstable and deteriorates rapidly, posing serious safety risks—yet neither Trivallis nor Rhondda Cynon Taf Council have offered realistic support.

'We urge the Welsh Government to intervene, providing financial assistance and long-term solutions for affected homeowners.'

This was submitted by Wilson Chowdhry, and the petition had 273 signatures. We have received some late information, which was handed out before committee. Joel, could I invite you to discuss this petition and any actions you think the committee should take? Thank you.

Thank you, Chair. Obviously, this is within my and Rhys's region, actually, and it's something that we've been inundated with correspondence on. And I must be fair to Trivallis, as they've kept me fully informed of what's been happening here. I know Rhondda Cynon Taf have also taken on board the seriousness of the situation and have offered grant assistance, but then also interest-free loans. But the issue is, especially with a lot of these residents, they're elderly and an interest-free loan is still something that needs to be paid back.

I understand that the Scottish Government are currently looking into something similar as well, and they've been lobbying hard for a UK-wide response here. I was wondering if this is something, maybe, we can take to the Cabinet Secretary to see what interaction they've had with the UK Government, because I definitely think something more needs to be done here than an offer of a loan. It would be good, actually, if we were able to expand the scope and get an idea of the situation across Wales, really, because, obviously, this is just a very isolated example here in Hirwaun, but I'd imagine there are situations like this all across Wales that haven't necessarily had the publicity that this one has, maybe.

After the sell-off of council houses, the majority of the money went to the UK Treasury at the time, didn't it, as well? I think the local authorities just kept a small percentage. So, there's a lot for local authorities to find. Okay. Would anybody else like to come in on this? Joel's proposing that we write to the Cabinet Secretary asking if she could respond or write regarding a UK Government-wide approach on this matter, because there are issues in other nations as well, UK nations—in Scotland, for example.

Chair, could we just highlight that, for precast reinforced concrete, grants were made available then? Homes in many parts—certainly in Caerphilly—were actually demolished and rebuilt in their entirety because it was the cheaper option. So, if money could have been found for those homes—literally in their thousands—then, surely, this doesn't seem to be too big a problem in comparison. Obviously, it's a big problem for those affected.

Yes. It's a lot of money to make them right, isn't it, when there continue to be problems? So, if we could also capture that as a suggestion in that letter to the Cabinet Secretary, in writing to the UK Government. Okay. Thank you, Lindsay, for that suggestion. Joel.

Are we also okay to see what the wider picture is in Wales, then, of the situation?

Yes. We could ask if the wider picture in Wales has been captured. It sounds like it's—

It affected PRC homes, but it also affected Cornish houses and Unity houses as well, and all of those were literally rebuilt. So, I don't see why this can't be the same, to be honest.

Okay. Thank you. So, we'll keep it open and write to the Cabinet Secretary, and see what response we'll receive regarding this. We're fortunate that there aren't many schools in Wales with RAAC, but a lot of schools in England had it. Okay. Thank you.

If we move on now to 2.4, petition P-06-1550, 'Place the drug Xonvea on to the formulary for the management of nausea and vomiting in pregnancy'. It reads,

'The RCOG's Greentop Guidelines for the management of nausea and vomiting in pregnancy recommend Xonvea as an effective first line treatment for the management of severe pregnancy sickness. However it is currently off formulary in Wales. Hyperemesis Gravidarum is a serious condition affecting around 3% of pregnant women, 1 in 10 women with HG will terminate their pregnancy and 1 in 4 will consider suicide. Xonvea is a safe and effective treatment. We ask for AWMSG to review their recommendation.'

This was submitted by Sarah Spooner, with 1,091 signatures. Could I just take a moment to thank all the women for sharing their distressing and harrowing stories, really, as well? It just shows that pregnancy, as well as being joyful, can also be a very vulnerable and challenging time, impacting mentally as well as physically. Eighty per cent of pregnant women suffer from nausea and vomiting, and a percentage of women suffer from this terrible, terrible condition. I'm reading some of the stories, when some have been actually encouraged to have an abortion rather than get actual help, with mental support as well as physical support. It's horrendous to read all those stories. Lindsay, could I ask you to discuss this petition and any actions you wish the committee to take?

Yes. Thank you, Chair. I, too, like you, would like to place on record thanks to so many women who have shared some of their most distressing personal stories and how they have been affected by such issues. It's really quite tragic. I don't think that women should be placed in such a position, or, indeed, the families, because the families also suffer as well. Whilst I read this report, I saw that the All Wales Medicines Strategy Group has advised against the routine use of Xonvea, as indeed Scotland does, but it is available in England. I don't think you can put a price on young couples who wish to start a family and have undergone such traumatic decisions as having to terminate the pregnancy because of the severity of the illnesses that they have suffered. That must have such a terrible impact on their own mental health. For some women, I've read it's happened once and more often, at times, and that's not a world we need to be living in in Wales.

I noticed that we're perhaps asked, as a committee—. Discussions are taking place between the manufacturer and the approving body, and it says there seems little more we can do to influence the situation, other than perhaps asking the All Wales Medicines Strategy Group to reconsider. I would say that we strongly ask the All Wales Medicines Strategy Group to reconsider this decision. Cost should simply not be the issue. Families are suffering, families who want to live the average 2.4 family life like so many others enjoy. I have nothing but heartfelt sympathy for all of the people who've contacted me suffering from this. I would ask that we send a strongly worded letter to the All Wales Medicines Strategy Group, saying, 'You have to literally keep looking at this'. I certainly don't want this petition closed at all; I would like it to remain open, so that these young families still have some hope for the future, with your permission.

Thank you. Would anybody else like to come in? It says here that 84 per cent of women said it was effective when they've been prescribed it.

That's very high indeed.

That's quite high, isn't it? Well, it's very high. And as you said, women should have equitable access to it. Okay. So, are we—? Joel.

Sorry, Chair. I was just wondering if there's scope that we could also highlight this with the health committee. Because I know that the petitioners have obviously raised this about the drug, but they've also raised important issues about how women are treated during pregnancy, and how a lot of them have felt ignored. Is there a way we can highlight that with the health committee? Maybe that's something they could take on at a later date.

I think that's a really good idea, Joel, looking at the stories of the way that they were ignored and not given that support that was needed. It's having that mental support as well, just to help them on that journey, which seemed to be lacking. We'll take forward Lindsay's proposal of writing a strongly worded letter to the All Wales Medicines Strategy Group, including some details we've got here, capturing that evidence we've got, perhaps, as well.

I think we should emphasise as well the only safe pregnancy is the one that eventually delivers a safe and healthy baby, and that's a joy for any family—not just the immediate, it's the entire family. The way we rally round in Wales to help, I think, is very special. But for the mother and father, this must be so traumatic, it is genuinely heartbreaking. I've only been here three or four weeks, and these have been the most touching e-mails and letters I have received, I have to tell you.

Absolutely. Thank you, Lindsay. If we could also write to the Chair of the Health and Social Care Committee, sharing the petition with him, and, again, some of the examples of lack of care and support during the pregnancies for those who've been impacted by this terrible condition. Thank you.

We'll move on to item 2.5, P-06-1552, 'Stop building industrial solar "farms" close to residential buildings and within village boundaries'. The petition reads:

'Solar farms are increasing throughout the UK and Wales. Bringing unsightly structures into our countryside and reducing farmland.

'With the high winds experienced during stormy weather damaging solar "farms" causing damage which causes alarm to local residents due to the risk of shattered solar panels on their land. Having solar "farms" near residential property reduces value & affects sales.

'I propose that we keep solar "farms" away from residential areas and outside village boundaries.'

This was submitted by Cai Williams with 251 signatures. Could I, Lindsay, bring you in again?

Thank you, Chair. I must say, I sympathise with the residents at Trefeglwys because I'm not a huge fan of solar farms, but I accept that they are in fact a very good alternative energy provider. I've got slight difficulties with the guidelines issued, where the Cabinet Secretary says that site considerations for identifying suitable locations include, amongst other things,

'sites capable of screening from surrounding land, with perimeter planting and screens'.

Screens, I would think, are going to make a problem even worse. If you plant trees, whilst they will perhaps shield the solar farm eventually from people looking at them, they're not going to be very effective solar farms if they're surrounded by trees, because they'll prevent the sunlight getting to them, I would have thought, but I'm not an expert in this matter, so I'll bow down to the experts.

But I do accept that while this petition is important and Senedd Members can 'read all about it', as they say, I think maybe the Climate Change, Environment and Infrastructure Committee is not sure what we can do any more and what this committee can do. Because, of course, if you had the Senedd discussing every single individual planning application, there'd be a lot of controversy because you wouldn't need 96 Members, you'd probably need a lot more. I'm not going to even go down that road.

I think perhaps the wisest thing is to urge the people of Trefeglwys, or any other part of Wales who are affected by these solar farms, to constantly harass their local authorities, who have the authority to authorise planning permissions.

Okay, and close the petition. Would anybody else like to speak on this? Okay. I know that in Europe they may have passed legislation that all new builds should have solar on, and public buildings should be retrofitted with solar. That's something that I'm asked very often—why do we not do that in Wales, and have carports and car parks with solar on top, rather than using greenfield sites or having them on a large scale, so it's spread around. I have asked questions on this to the Government as well. Perhaps, going forward, this is something that we can ask our parties again to put in manifestos, so that we can be doing the same as Europe. We do have an issue with the grid, though, don't we? But if there was direct feed or battery storage direct, that's the way forward. Anyway, I'm going into a whole new area of debate. We could forward the petition to maybe the Climate Change, Environment and Infrastructure Committee, and then close this petition. Thank you.

We'll move on to item 2.6, P-06-1553, 'Increase investment and action in nature-based flood management to protect Welsh communities'.

'Flooding affects 1 in 8 properties in Wales, causing tragedy for many. We, the Youth Climate Ambassadors for Wales, call on the Welsh Government to commit to increasing investment and action towards nature-based flood management (NFM) to better protect communities, improve mental wellbeing, and restore river health. We urge the allocation of at least 10% of flood prevention funds to NFM.'

This was actually raised at the Climate Change, Environment and Infrastructure Committee with the Cabinet Secretary, because we looked at the proportion that is given to natural flood schemes. It was submitted by Menna Roberts with 285 signatures on behalf of the Youth Climate Ambassadors for Wales. Could I invite Rhys to discuss the petition and any actions he thinks the committee could take?

Diolch yn fawr, Gadeirydd. It's good to see the Youth Climate Ambassadors for Wales engaging with the Petitions Committee and the Senedd as a youth-led organisation. It's important that these do take a lead on this matter and push the older generations forward. We hear so much about flooding these days, and, in the last few months, we seem to hearing about it on at least a weekly basis. As you've already mentioned, those are terrible figures, and, of course, behind the figures, as we often remind ourselves, are individuals and families impacted by flooding.

There has been very good engagement, I thought, from the petitioners with the response we had from the Cabinet Secretary. They have posed a number of questions. I think we should put those to the Cabinet Secretary and the Cabinet Secretary should answer questions from the youth of Wales on this very important matter. Following on from your last comment, Gadeirydd, about solar panels on public buildings, they seem to be commonsense answers. So, I'd like for us to put the questions from the petitioners to the Cabinet Secretary, for him to answer us, and, through us, answer them. I suggest that we keep the petition open until we receive the answers back from the Cabinet Secretary.

Thank you. The petitioner said that they'd like the Welsh Government to consider support for farmers to improve vegetation, plant trees and restore habitats. There's been lots of discussion about planting trees along river edges to stop the cattle going in, and keeping the commitment to introduce beavers in suitable areas. There was an announcement regarding the licensing of the release of beavers, and the protection of them. We actually need that to happen now before the end of the Senedd. Perhaps we could include that in the letter to the Cabinet Secretary.

The petitioners have further questions and comments. We could forward those to the Cabinet Secretary for climate change, ask about moving forward with the licensing of the release of beavers, and protection of them going forward, following up on the announcement. And we also discussed earlier about having it for the legacy report as well, including natural flood schemes with—.

I think there's an issue, isn't there, about water cleanliness, flooding. There's a watery theme, for want of a better expression. 

Yes. There are so many good natural solutions that help keep waters clean as well, and stop flooding. One in eight properties in Wales are at risk of flooding. That's huge, isn't it? Are we okay with those? We'll keep the petition open for now as well, because I think it's something we could really push up the agenda.

Chair, if I can just interject there. It was just something I remembered. I went and visited the Birmingham Institute of Forest Research a couple of years back, so that shows how sad I am, I suppose, some people might say. But there's a lot of work being done in Bangor University on this, actually, so it might be worthwhile to link up with them, or to push the petitioner that way as well, on what can be done in terms of those natural flood defences. 

Okay. We could write back to the youth climate ambassadors as well—I did meet some in Bangor—and perhaps research what's happening in Bangor, and direct them that way. I was also discussing this with the North Wales Wildlife Trust, who are doing a lot of great work regarding continuous cover forestry, rather then clear felling, which impacts on flooding. There's the peatland restoration as well that's happening. Even if farmers could have crops going horizontally rather than vertically, all that helps. There's a lot that can be done, with the right will and legislation behind it. Thank you. There's another added suggestion there. 

We'll move on now to item 2.7, P-06-1565, 'Continue funding Technocamps to provide the support that schools and teachers across Wales rely on'.

'Welsh Government has stopped funding Welsh universities (Technocamps) to support Welsh teachers, and instead is giving £1.4M to York University to provide on-line resources for this. This is outrageous: both in the loss of critical local in-person support for Welsh teachers, and in the disrespect shown towards Wales and Welsh universities that are eager to support their local schools but are having their funding for this taken away and given—in far greater amounts—to an English university.'

This was submitted by Beti Williams MBE, with 4,133 signatures collected. Could I invite Joel to discuss the petition and any actions for the committee?

Thank you, Chair. I've got to admit that I've been reading this one with quite a lot of interest, because the Welsh Government have been quite firm. They've said that there was a tender process and the University of York won it. But I was quite surprised at that, because as you'll remember, Chair, one of the first things the Welsh Government brought in was the Social Partnership and Public Procurement (Wales) Act 2023, which said that added weight should be given by public bodies, which the Welsh Government is, I suppose, to organisations in Wales when they come to do the business. And I was quite surprised at that.

So, I was wondering whether or not there is scope to go back to the Minister, because the petitioner has raised a lot of important issues that they believe haven't been taken on board, such as bilingual provision. I'd like to see if—. And I might be wrong and the social partnership and public procurement Act might not come in to this, but it sounds weird that the Welsh Government is preaching one thing and then doing the exact opposite. I well remember visiting a Remploy factory up in Aberdare a couple of years ago. They were making orthopaedic footwear, and they were saying that the rhetoric coming out of the Welsh Government is saying, 'We need to support Remploy, we need to buy local', but they could never get a contract with the Welsh Government or the NHS in Wales. And, in the end, that factory went under—it got closed. I was just curious, really, and I'd just like to get some more information on that, if that's okay. 

The petition is actually saying that more money is being spent there as well.

Could you say that again?

The petitioner is saying that more money is being spent as well, so it's not a cost thing. So, we'll write to the Cabinet Secretary for more information about it, in relation to the social partnership and public procurement Act and bilingual provision as well. Okay. We'll keep it open while we await the response. Okay.

If we move on now, we're on to item 3, which is updates to previous petitions. We've got petition P-06-1240, 'Improve health services for people with epilepsy living in Wales'. This was submitted by Janet Paterson with 1,334 signatures. Joel, could you take us through this?

Thank you, Chair. This is a really important petition. I think it's about the seventh time, now, that it's come before us. To be fair to the Welsh Government, they have done quite a lot on addressing the initial concerns of the petitioners, especially working with Epilepsy Action Cymru. But I've got a funny feeling now that this is—. We haven't heard back from the petitioner since the last correspondence with them, so I think it's probably coming to a gradual end now, really, and I think there might be scope for us to close the petition and thank the petitioner for raising such an important issue and highlighting what action the Welsh Government, to be fair and to their credit, have taken. But then it may be something just to flag with the Health and Social Care Committee, again, just in case it might be something that they want to have a look into as well. 

Okay. So, we could refer correspondence to the health committee, with a view to that being their area to follow up, and close the petition. Okay. Thank you. 

We've now got item 3.2, petition P-06-1428, 'Stop the flooding in Caenant Terrace, Skewen NOW!' That was submitted by Susan Martin Kerslake, with 776 signatures. Lindsay, could I invite you to take us through the petition? 

Yes, thank you, Chair. Could I declare solidarity with the residents of Caenant Terrace, Skewen, because I too have been flooded in my home? So, I know exactly the predicament that they face, and the uncertainty for what seems to be decades, from what I've read in the petitioner's correspondence. It must be very unnerving during what is now weather that seems to be much worse than we've ever had. I noticed that £765,000 has been allocated to Neath Port Talbot County Borough Council to develop the flood prevention scheme, and it looks, reading the report, as if things seem to be going ahead, ready for, hopefully, work to begin in 2027. Well, that's a little bit of a worry for the residents in Caenant Terrace, but what concerns me is the little sentence there,

'There are also still question marks over funding of the scheme',

which is estimated to cost £16 million. Look, it's abject misery to be flooded and see many of your treasured belongings just literally having to be thrown away or destroyed forever.

I'm going to move that we keep this petition open and we urge, obviously, the next Government—. I hope the funding won't be withdrawn and I'm sure that will be uppermost in the next Government's mind, whoever that is, and that Neath Port Talbot will get on and end the abject misery that these residents seem to have lived with, possibly for the last 40 to 50 years, I would think if this all started in the 1970s. That's not correct and that's not the right way to live, is it? So, I'd ask that we keep this petition open, please.

And as somebody else whose property has been flooded as well—

There you go.

But I know the concern over a blocked culvert, so I keep an eye on it if we have heavy rain.

It's terrible, isn't it?

It's awful.

Thank you.

I know that a lot of the local authority funding bids were fulfilled this time by Welsh Government, and so they've had the feasibility funded, but, as you said, the actual costs of the build need to happen. As you say, let's hope that whoever is the next Welsh Government will continue putting money into plans to alleviate the flooding of properties. With that in mind, we should keep it open and perhaps we could build that into the legacy report as well, because it's going to be such an issue. As we said earlier, one in eight properties are at risk of flooding.

The other issue is that because of cuts as well, maybe the council might have cleared culverts, ditches in the past, Natural Resources Wales, but now, under riparian law, if it belongs to a private landowner, they're saying it's up to them to keep them all clear, and it can be very difficult to make that happen, the enforcement, so I think there's a whole bit of work to be done on this. Okay, so, we'll keep it open for now. Lindsay, remind me what else you said for us to do? We've got to keep it open for now and—.

Just keep the petition open and hope that the next Government will honour the commitment. I'm assuming a commitment has been made for £16 million.

Yes, that's right. Okey-dokey, because they've got the money at the moment for the work, haven't they?

I would have thought that the integrity of any Parliament would be in question: if you've promised £16 million, you must deliver. Probably the cost will have increased by then, but, to be honest, I think it's quite scandalous they have to wait until then, but there's nothing I can do about that, obviously.

It takes a while sometimes to get all the plans drawn, doesn't it, as well? Okay, thank you. Is everybody in agreement with that? Okay, thank you.

Moving on to 3.3, petition P-06-1525, 'Preserve the unique character of the Monmouthshire and Brecon Canal for the future generations of Wales'. This was submitted by Jan Butler with 13,847 signatures, an awful lot of signatures, because it impacts on so many people, and I'd like to thank—. We've got two members of the public who are part of this who are attending today.

We did a visit, didn't we, as a committee, and it's not in the report, but there was an announcement, wasn't there, on 5 December, last week, from Welsh Government saying that they would commit £400,000 a year over the next five years, with £100,000 coming from the Canal and River Trust, which is really welcome. That will mean that all the businesses and everybody who uses the canal can plan now; they’ve got a future, they've got sustainability. Rhys, would you like to come in?

Yes, thank you, Cadeirydd. Yes. This is the third time we've discussed this and, of course, we had a fantastic debate, didn't we? I know you're not supposed to have favourite petitions, but this certainly has been one of my favourites because it meant that we had that lovely trip in June to the canal. It's difficult now, in this bleak midwinter, to think of that sunny day in June when we visited the canal. I think it was important that Joel, you and I visited the canal, because it just showed how much more it was than just a relic of our industrial past. We met business owners, we met people who frequented the canal for leisure, we met people who lived there. We went for a lovely cup of tea and cake at the cafe near the lock, didn't we? It was a lovely afternoon where we learned so much more about the canal.

Of course, we all welcome the announcement that we had last week. The future of the canal, despite warm words, has been up in the air, and I know that the Deputy First Minister, who enjoys visiting canals himself, has been very supportive, so it's good to see the announcement of this money last week. I'm not sure where this leaves us now, because I know we wanted to ask some further questions of the Deputy First Minister, but if there are still question marks, whether we keep it open and ask some further questions of the Deputy First Minister, or whether, following the announcement last week, we just thank the petitioner, thank all the supporters and close the petition now. But, of course, if any further issues come up, local Members are available and of course they can contact us as members of the Petitions Committee too.

Joel, would you like to come in?

Yes, thank you, Chair. The only thing I was going to say is that I know, from the Welsh Government's response, there's about £400,000 and then there'll be elements of funding coming from other organisations. But from what I gather, this is only for the next five years. What happens then after that? That's a concern, because the issues would still remain, I suppose, when that funding goes and it's only a Senedd term. There might be a different political direction next year. The Cabinet Secretary who's in charge might not be as supportive as the current one of canals, and I just wanted to get some response there, because from what I gather, the crux of the issue will still remain with NRW. It's not going to go away, but the money will, or it could do. I just wanted to get some clarification on that.

Okay.

Certainly, my reading of the Government's report was that this is an interim funding policy, so that a permanent solution can be found within that five-year period. But, yes, maybe it's worth us writing back to the Minister just to clarify what that timescale is.

Yes. I think it would be good to get it in writing to the Petitions Committee, because we've done so much so far. There's a task and finish group that's been set up. I think that will continue. That has a representative of the UK Government as well on it, and the Canal and River Trust, local authorities and Welsh Government, et cetera. As you say, I think it's interim for five years while they look at a long-term solution, which I think is piping it from the other reservoir, which will need substantial funding as well. So, that needs to be in place and the work needs to happen. So, I think it's the role of the task and finish group to look at that. That's my understanding.

But the visit brought to life that it's not just one thing, it's not just one element, is it? It's a home. It's the business. It's health and well-being. It's nature as well, and the environment. It impacts on several different local authority areas as well. If it was to be empty, it could collapse and you're not going to be able to fix it. There's so much there. It's really important. It's also part of the Blaenavon heritage site as well. So, it's huge. So, really welcome the funding, but let's write to the Cabinet Secretary and get it in writing from him, the commitment of that money for five years and what the next steps are, the long-term steps.

Okay. We'll keep a watching eye on it, but it's good news as well. I know that I've received an e-mail as well from members who'd like to pass on their thanks for the commitment of the committee as well to raising the profile. Like you said, it was a really good debate. So, thank you. Thank you to everyone.

Okay, we move on now to agenda item 4, which is papers to note. Are you happy to note the papers? Yes. So, 4.1 was, 'Hold an enquiry into the corporate takeover of the veterinary profession in Wales', and there's a letter to the Economy, Trade and Rural Affairs Committee regarding that. It's my short debate on Wednesday.

I like the title.

[Laughter.] I've got a pun in it. It's something, as the chair of the cross-party group on animal welfare, I just feel I need to speak out on, while I can, as well. So, happy to note the papers? Okay.

That brings us to agenda item 5 and concludes the public business. I propose, in accordance with Standing Order 17.42, that the committee resolves to meet in private for the remainder of the meeting. Are Members content? Okay. We can move into private.