National Assembly for Wales

Welcome to this afternoon's meeting of the Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee. I'm chairing this afternoon, in the absence of Huw Irranca-Davies. We've had apologies from Huw, and we have Carolyn Thomas as a substitute for Huw. You're very welcome, Carolyn. We also have apologies from Adam Price this afternoon, and Luke Fletcher is here as a substitute for Adam. You're very welcome as well, Luke. It's good to see you both. 

As ever, all Standing Orders are in place, apart from the adaptations for conducting proceedings in a virtual format. Can Members ensure that mobile devices are switched to silent mode? The Senedd operates through the medium of the Welsh and English languages, and interpretation is available. Members are reminded that the sound operators are controlling your microphones today and, as such, you do not need to mute or unmute yourselves during this meeting. 

We'll go straight on to item 2 this afternoon, instruments that raise no reporting issues under the relevant Standing Orders. The first item this afternoon is item 2.1, SL(6)418, the Valuation for Rating (Plant and Machinery) (Wales) (Amendment) Regulations 2023. These regulations amend the Schedule to the 2000 regulations and insert two further exemptions to the Schedule in respect of renewables plant and machinery and electric vehicle charging points. These exemptions apply in relation to days on or after 1 April 2024 and before 1 April 2035. Our lawyers have identified no reporting points. I'm going to ask Members if you have any comments or observations to make, otherwise we will confirm that we are content with the regulations as reported to us. I see that Members are content.  

We'll move on to item 3, instruments that raise issues to be reported to the Senedd under the relevant Standing Order. Item 3.1 is SL(6)417, the Apprenticeships (Specification of Apprenticeship Standards for Wales) (Modification) Order 2023. This modifies the specification of apprenticeship standards for Wales, which specifies the requirements that must be met for recognised Welsh apprenticeship frameworks to be issued. Amongst other things, the modifications include widening participation amongst apprentices with learning difficulties and learning disabilities. Our lawyers have identified 13 technical and two merits reporting points. I understand that no Welsh Government response has been received. Kate, as our lawyer, would you like to highlight any issues arising from the draft report?

Thank you. Nine of the technical reporting points relate to potentially defective drafting. So, for example, the Order fails to precisely define the document that is the specification of apprenticeship standards for Wales, and provides no indication of where the reader of the Order could locate that document. Of the remaining four technical points, three are seeking further explanation from the Welsh Government in relation to certain drafting matters, and one identifies an inconsistency between the meaning of the Welsh and English texts. 

The first merits point asks the Welsh Government to clarify the relationship between the specification document and the Equality Act 2010, particularly as regards reasonable adjustments. And then finally, the second merits point asks the Welsh Government to explain its basis for stating in the explanatory memorandum that the Order does not amount to a change in policy. We're waiting for the Welsh Government response to all of those reporting points. 

I'm very grateful to you for that. Can I confirm that Members wish to agree those reporting points? I see Members do. I'm grateful to you for that. 

We'll move on to item 4, instruments that raise issues to be reported to the Senedd under the relevant Standing Orders that have been previously considered. Item 4.1 here is SL(6)409, the Plant Health etc. (Miscellaneous Fees) (Amendment) (Wales) Regulations 2023. We have in our papers correspondence from the Minister for Rural Affairs and North Wales, and Trefnydd. The Minister's letter of 27 November informs us that she is withdrawing the regulations following our consideration of them in our meeting on 20 November and our subsequent letter. Revised regulations have since been laid and those regulations will be considered at our meeting next week. Do you have any comment to make on this, Kate?

Just to note that the committee's report and the follow-up correspondence identified a potentially significant issue around operability and accessibility of the regulations, so, it's obviously very good that the Welsh Government are going to address that, and we'll bring forward a draft report for you to consider next week on the revised regulations.

I'm very grateful to you for that, Kate, and grateful for your work on this. I assume that Members are content with that? I see that Members are content.

Item 4.2 is SL(6)414, Education (Student Loans) (Repayment) (Amendment) (No. 3) Regulations 2023. We considered this instrument at our meeting last week and our report was laid the same day. We are invited to note the Welsh Government response to the report, which has now been received. Do you have any comment to make on this, Kate?

We've got no further comments on this, no.

No further comment. Do Members wish to make any further comments or observations? I notice you do not.

So, we move on to the next item, which is item 5, notifications and correspondence under the inter-institutional relations agreement. Item 5.1 is a written statement and correspondence from the Counsel General and Minister for the Constitution on the Interministerial Standing Committee. We are invited to note this statement and letter in relation to a fifth meeting of the Interministerial Standing Committee, which took place on 19 October. The Counsel General's statement links to a communiqué published following the meeting, and he provides some detail on the discussions that were held there. As part of the discussion relating to international issues and the international development White Paper, the Counsel General states that he:

'pressed for further consideration be given to an Inter-Ministerial Group for international relations.'

In relation to UK Bills, the Counsel General states that he put forward

'strong concerns about the repeated recent breaches of the Sewel Convention and the unacceptable and damaging constitutional implications of this.'

And we understand that the Counsel General himself will chair the next Interministerial Standing Committee, in line with the rotating chair arrangements. Do Members have any comments or observations on that before we move on? They do not.

Item 5.2 is a written statement and correspondence from the Minister for Climate Change on the Producer Responsibility Obligations (Packaging Waste) (Amendment) (England and Wales) Regulations 2023. Members are invited to note the written statement and correspondence from the Minister, who informs us that consent has been given to the UK Government to make this statutory instrument in relation to both England and Wales to cover the gap, as she says, that would

'otherwise exist between the targets set under the current packaging scheme, which end in 2023, and the introduction of the new extended producer responsibility regime'.

The regulations were laid before the UK Parliament on 22 November and will come into force on 1 January next year. If Members do not have any observations or comments to make on that, we'll move on to the next item.

Item 6, papers to note. Item 6.1 is a written statement by the Minister for Climate Change on the Leasehold and Freehold Reform Bill. We are invited to note the written statement that the Minister has made on this legislation, which was introduced into the UK Parliament on 27 November. The Bill will legislate both for Wales and England, and the Minister says that, in her view,

'working together with the UK Government represents the best way to achieve'

the changes we require.

'In doing so we will be able to reduce complexity, maximise the clarity and coherence of the law and ensure the new fairer reformed system applies to all.' 

The Minister also states that she will be

'laying Legislative Consent Memorandum...given housing is within the legislative competence of the Senedd.'

If there are no comments or observations, we'll move on to item 6.2, which is correspondence from the First Minister on the third meeting of the UK-EU Parliamentary Partnership Assembly. The correspondence from the FM is in relation to the third meeting of the Parliamentary Partnership Assembly, which took place in July of this year. Members will recall that Huw Irranca-Davies and Luke wrote to the First Minister to draw his attention to the summary report they prepared as the Senedd's representatives at the meeting. The First Minister notes the report on the outcomes of the meeting and the recommendations, which were very informative. The First Minister has also noted that he is very keen for this committee, the Economy, Trade and Rural Affairs Committee, and the Welsh Government, to continue to work together to ensure the most effective input to the trade and co-operation agreement processes, to maximise Wales's interests in the UK-EU relationship. This is particularly important, of course, in the lead-up to the review of the TCA. Do Members have any observations or comments to make on any of those items?

If not, we'll move on to item 7, a motion under Standing Order 17.42 to resolve to exclude the public from the remainder of today's meeting. Members are content. Then, we will ask the committee to go into private session.