National Assembly for Wales

Prynhawn da, pawb. Good afternoon, everybody. Welcome to this meeting of the Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee. We're meeting in a virtual setting today. The meeting is being broadcast live on Senedd.tv, and our Record of Proceedings will be published as usual. Although we're meeting in a virtual setting, apart from the adaptations for that, all the other Standing Order requirements remain in place as normal. If I could just check with colleagues that all your mobile devices are switched to silent. As per normal, we're operating through mediums of the Welsh and English languages today and we have interpretation available, and, of course, our sound operators will be controlling the microphones. We're fully quorate here; everybody's here. So, we'll get under way. 

We move on to the first substantive item, which is item No. 2, which is instruments that raise no reporting issues under Standing Order 21.2 or 21.3, and the first of these, in your paper No.1, item 2.1, is SL(6)394, the Council Tax (Alteration of Lists and Appeals) (Amendment) (Wales) Regulations 2023. These regulations amend the 1993 regulations, which set out the circumstances in which a valuation list can be altered. Regulation 14 of those 1993 regulations specifies the day from which an alteration has effect. These regulations—the 2023 regulations—amend the day from which an alteration has effect when the list is altered due to a material increase in the value of a property, and where a dwelling should be treated as two or more dwellings pursuant to the Council Tax (Chargeable Dwellings) Order 1992. And, in both circumstances, these regulations specify the day as the day on which the alteration is entered into the list. There are no reporting points on this. We don't require a Welsh Government response. Are we happy to agree with that report? We are. 

We move on, then, to an affirmative resolution instrument, under item 2.2. This is SL(6)400, the Renting Homes (Wales) Act 2016 and the Homelessness (Suitability of Accommodation) (Wales) Order 2015 (Amendment) Regulations 2023. These regulations make a number of amendments to the Renting Homes (Wales) Act 2016 and the Homelessness (Suitability of Accommodation) (Wales) Order 2015. The intended effect of the changes being made is to ensure that people who are homeless and to whom the local authority has a duty to provide support and accommodation can continue to be accommodated in bed-and-breakfast accommodation without an occupation contract arising. Again, we have no reporting points on this. We don't require a Welsh Government response, so again I ask colleagues: are you happy with that—to agree the reporting points? We are.

We go on to item No. 3, having disposed of those. These are instruments that raise issues to be reported to the Senedd under Standing Orders 21.2 or 21.3. The first of those today, under item 3.1, is a made negative resolution instrument, SL(6)393, the Forestry (Felling of Trees) (Amendment) (Wales) Regulations 2023. In your packs, there's a draft report.

These regulations make amendments to the 1979 regulations to provide for procedural matters arising from new sections inserted into the Forestry Act 1967 by the Agriculture (Wales) Act 2023. The amendments set out prescribed periods relating to tree preservation orders and compensation claims, and prescribed periods and the manner of appeal for appeals relating to felling licences. Now, our lawyers have identified nine technical reporting points. We don't have a Welsh Government response, as far as I know. I know that our clerks will update us if we have. So, if I could go to Kate for an update on this, please.

Thank you. Six of the technical reporting points relate to potentially defective drafting, and the remaining three seek an explanation from the Welsh Government as to the particular approach it's taken in drafting the regulations and we are waiting for the Welsh Government's response.

Okay. So, as we're awaiting that response, are you happy to agree those reporting points? We are. Thank you, Kate. We'll go on to item 3.2, then. It's an affirmative resolution instrument, SL(6)396, the Vehicle Emissions Trading Schemes Order 2023. Again, there's a draft report in our packs. This Order establishes Great Britain-wide trading schemes. The Order consists of four trading schemes that will operate by limiting both the numbers of new non-zero emission vehicles that may be registered in Great Britain, and the carbon dioxide emissions from such vehicles, as part of the transition to zero-emission vehicles. This policy framework will replace the UK’s existing new car and van carbon dioxide emissions regulation, which will cease in Great Britain with the commencement of this Order, but will be preserved in Northern Ireland for the time being. The explanatory memorandum states that the Order will contribute to Wales's and the United Kingdom's emissions reduction targets and net-zero goal. Now, our lawyers have identified five technical reporting points and, again, I don't think we have yet received a Welsh Government response, but, Kate, over to you again.

Thank you. The first technical point notes that the Order has been laid in English only, and the Welsh Government sets out in the explanatory memorandum that it is not considered reasonably practicable for the Order to be made or laid bilingually because the Order will be subject to UK parliamentary scrutiny.

Of the other four technical points, two relate to potentially defective drafting and two seek further information from the Welsh Government in relation to the way that the Order has been drafted, and we're waiting for the Welsh Government's response.

That's great. Thank you, Kate. Members will know that, in our later order of business, we have something where we will turn our attention to the use of the Welsh language within legislation. But on the analysis from our lawyers, are you happy to agree those reporting points? We are. Thank you very much.

We go on to item 3.3, then, the last in this section. It's SL(6)397, the Building Safety (Description of Higher-Risk Building) (Design and Construction Phase) (Wales) Regulations 2023. Again, we have a draft report in our pack. These regulations define what is meant by a 'higher risk building' for the purposes of section 120I of the Building Act 1984, which was inserted into the 1984 Act by Part 3 of the Building Safety Act 2022. This makes provision for higher risk buildings to be subject to an enhanced regulatory regime during the design and construction phase. Regulations 3 to 6 specify definitions of a 'higher risk building' and include exceptions to this definition. Our lawyers have identified two technical reporting points. Kate, over to you again.

The two technical points are each seeking further information from the Welsh Government in relation to certain definitions within these regulations, and we're waiting for that response.

Thank you very much. Are we happy to agree those reporting points and that we wait on the response? We are.

In which case, then, we go on to item No. 4, which is instruments that raise issues to be reported to the Senedd under Standing Orders 21.2 or 21.3 that we have previously considered. The first of these today is item 4.1, SL(6)388, the National Health Service (Ophthalmic Services) (Wales) Regulations 2023. We have the report and the Welsh Government response in our packs. We considered this instrument at committee in our meeting on 23 October, and we laid our report the same day. So, I just invite Members to note the Welsh Government response to the report, which we've received subsequently. Any particular comment on this, Kate, or is it fairly straightforward in terms of the response?

It's quite straightforward. The Welsh Government accepts the majority of the points. Some of them will be corrected by correction slip, and some of them the Welsh Government doesn't consider need correcting.

That's great. Thank you, Kate. Are we happy with that, colleagues? That's great.

Okay, in which case, we'll go on to item 4.2—there are only two items in this section today—this is SL(6)392, the Water Resources (Control of Agricultural Pollution) (Wales) (Amendment) (No. 2) Regulations 2023. Again, we have a report and the Welsh Government response. Our committee considered this instrument at our meeting on 23 October. We laid our report the same day, and, again, we have the Welsh Government response to the report that has subsequently been received. Fairly straightforward on this, Kate, as well?

Yes. The Welsh Government explains that its approach was consistent with existing legislation and it considers that the meaning is clear because of the explanatory note.

That's great, thank you. Are we happy to agree that, colleagues? We are. Wonderful.

We go on, then, to item No. 5, which is notifications and correspondence under the inter-institutional relations agreement. We have a few items here, the first of which is item 5.1, where we have a written statement and letter from the Minister for Rural Affairs and North Wales, and Trefnydd stating that the Welsh Government has given consent to the UK Government to make the Plant Protection Products (Miscellaneous Amendments) Regulations 2023. It explains that the Welsh Government considers it appropriate on this occasion for the UK Government to legislate on a GB-wide basis to ensure that there is no divergence between Welsh and other GB regulations and to reduce any confusion or disadvantage for Welsh traders and any potential administrative burden. The regulations were laid before the UK Parliament on 23 October and are due to come into force on 31 December 2023. Are we happy to note that?

In which case, we'll go on to item 5.2. We have a letter from the Counsel General and Minister for the Constitution that informs us that the Inter-Ministerial Group for Elections and Registration, which was due to be held on 25 October, has been postponed, but the Counsel General will write to us again when the meeting is rearranged.

I'll carry on with the other items, but stop me—like the ice cream seller, if you want to buy one—if you want to come in on any of these items. Item 5.3, we have a written statement by the Minister for Finance and Local Government in relation to the Public Procurement (Agreement on Government Procurement) (Thresholds) (Amendment) Regulations 2023. The Minister states that the power to make the changes to the procurement financial thresholds within the regulations is conferred on the UK Government only, and the Welsh Government is content for the UK Government to make the regulations insofar as they relate to an area of devolved competence.

Then, under item 5.4, we have a written statement and letter from the Minister for Rural Affairs and North Wales, and Trefnydd, which states that the Welsh Government has given consent for the UK Government to make the Official Controls (Plant Health) (Prior Notification) and Phytosanitary Conditions (Amendment) Regulations 2023. The Minister states that while the regulations relate to a devolved area, they impact on the imports of plants and plant products GB wide, and so introducing separate legislation may cause additional administrative burden. In addition, the Minister states that making Wales-only regulations for some provisions within this instrument would likely have implications for the task of reforming and consolidating plant health legislation following assimilation of the retained EU law Bill at the end of 2023, as well as having implications for notifying the World Trade Organization of the changes.

In which case, then, we move on to item No. 6, which is our papers to note, with, once again, several items in this section, the first of which is a letter from the First Minister of Wales in relation to an international agreement. It's the protocol amending the International Convention on the Conservation of Atlantic Tunas, known as the Palma protocol. In response to our request for further information, the First Minister tells us in his correspondence that the amendments to the convention were reviewed by all devolved Governments prior to the UK Government signing, that a fisheries management framework sets out how the Governments of the UK will interact in this policy area, and that there is no immediate action for the Welsh Government to take on the implementation of the protocol.

We go on to item 6.2. Again, stop me if you need to, but we'll go to item 6.2. We have a letter from the Minister for Climate Change informing us that her officials are engaging with the UK Government to explore joint working to outlaw blanket 'no DSS' and 'no children' practices in residential lettings in Wales. The Minister states that—in quotes:

'this would deliver a discrete policy objective that is desirable in Wales'.

And she goes on to say that there will be further information provided in due course. We may want to return to this, or to other items, in our private session, but if you're happy to note that for now.

We go on, then, to item 6.3. We have a written statement by the Counsel General and Minister for the Constitution in relation to the progress of the Independent Commission on the Constitutional Future of Wales. And the Counsel General's statement directs Members to the commission's latest progress report, which details the evidence it has taken since the previous report and its engagement activity, and we learn that the commission expects to complete its work by the end of December 2023 and to issue its final report on 18 January 2024.

And then, finally in this section, we have a letter from the Counsel General and Minister for the Constitution in which he provides us with a copy of the second annual report of the Government's programme to improve the accessibility of Welsh law.

And on all of these items, colleagues, and the previous ones as well, we can return to these if needed in private session for discussion as well.

So, that brings us, colleagues, to item 7, which is—and we have quite a bit of business to get through—a motion under Standing Order 17.42 to resolve to exclude the public from the remainder of the meeting, so that we can go into private session for the rest of our business. Are you happy that we do so? There we are, and we will go into private session, please.