National Assembly for Wales

Welcome, everybody, to this virtual meeting of the Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee. Just as a reminder to everybody, as per normal, the meeting is being broadcast live on Senedd.tv and the Record of Proceedings will be published as usual. Apart from the usual procedural adaptations for conducting these proceedings in a virtual setting, all the other Standing Order requirements remain in place. So, as per normal, if you can make sure, colleagues, that your mobile devices are switched to silent. We're operating through the mediums of Welsh and English languages today and we have interpretation available. There's no need to mute and unmute your microphones; it'll be done for you by the magician behind the scenes there. So, we're all present and correct; no apologies whatsoever. 

In which case, we'll move straight to item No. 2, which is instruments that raise issues to be reported to the Senedd under Standing Order 21.2 or 21.3 that we've previously considered. Just to note today, colleagues, we don't have any fresh instruments in front of us; we're going straight to ones that we've previously considered. This is unusual, but it does happen. Under that item, there's nothing to note this week under the usual standing item and statutory instruments whatsoever.

So, we're going to go on to item No. 3, which is notifications and correspondence under the inter-institutional relations agreement. Item 3.1, we have a letter from the Minister for Climate Change in relation to the inter-ministerial group for net zero, energy and climate change, held on 14 September, and the Minister tells us in that correspondence that the Deputy Minister for Climate Change attended the meeting on her behalf. The Minister's letter also tells us that

'The meeting focused on the comments from Chris Stark, Chief Executive of the Climate Change Committee and Heat Decarbonisation.'

We also have correspondence, for item 3.2, from the Minister for Rural Affairs and North Wales, and Trefnydd in relation to the Plant Protection Products (Miscellaneous Amendments) Regulations 2023. The Minister responds to questions that we asked in our letter of 22 September. Colleagues, if you're happy to note those, and if there are any items that arise from them, we can come back to them in private session.

And then we have some papers to note under item 4 on the agenda. The first of these, item 4.1, is correspondence to the—. I just invite Members to note, for the formal record, our letter to the Minister for Climate Change. We wrote to the Minister on 29 September in relation to comments made during the debate on the legislative consent motion on the Energy Bill, so that letter is there to note.

We also have correspondence from the Minister for Health and Social Services to our committee and to the Finance Committee and the Health and Social Care Committee in relation to Government amendments tabled for consideration at Stage 3 proceedings of the Health Service Procurement (Wales) Bill. That's under item 4.2.

Jump in if there is anything, otherwise, we can return to these in private session. Item 4.3, we have to note for the formal record our submission to the House of Commons Public Administration and Constitutional Affairs Committee's inquiry into devolution capability in Whitehall.

Item 4.4, we have the most recent supplementary legislative consent memorandum, memorandum No. 5, on the Levelling-up and Regeneration Bill, laid on 6 October. Members will recall we've only just disposed of memorandum No. 4, so they're coming thick and fast there. The Welsh Government will be holding the debate on the legislative consent motion on 17 October.

Item 4.5, we have—. Well, items 4.5 and 4.6, actually, are related. Members are invited to note here the correspondence with the Minister for Climate Change following her appearance before the committee on 25 September. So, the Minister's letter responds to some additional questions we asked about the Infrastructure (Wales) Bill, but it also provides information about developments regarding the Energy Bill since the Senedd voted on a legislative consent motion. The reason we put those in as two separate items there, colleagues, is for clarity for people that we have correspondence there relating not only to the Energy Bill, but also that touches on the infrastructure Bill as well. I hope that makes sense to you.

Item 4.7, we have for us to note a letter from the Local Government and Housing Committee to the Business Committee in relation to the supplementary LCM, memorandum No. 4, on the Levelling-up and Regeneration Bill. The Local Government and Housing Committee informed the Business Committee that they do not intend to report on memorandum No. 4.

Which brings us, colleagues, if you're happy with that, to item No. 5. Now, this is an unusual item. You'll be aware, colleagues, that the Senedd reform legislation being brought forward by Welsh Government further to a piece of work carried out by a special procedures committee, which I previously chaired separately from this committee, will be coming forward towards our committee, as well as a specialist committee that is looking at it. Our committee has a very limited remit in terms of looking at this particular thing—it's our normal remit that we have, to make sure that it's right and proper. But I'm going to suggest that, in order to avoid any potential or perception of conflict of interest, I'm going to recuse myself from the meeting that will deal with the evidence on this, and also from the report on this, if you're content with that. If you are, then we'll need to actually appoint a temporary Chair for the meeting on 16 October, and I just wondered whether would you be content with that, with my recusing myself, just for clarity. Thank you, James. Brilliant. And, Alun, I can see.

And would you be happy, in that case—? I've had a quiet word with our colleague Alun Davies, and Alun has kindly offered to step in for that, but I need your agreement, and Alun also to accept the temporary Chair. James, happy?

Yes, happy to support that.

And Adam as well. Alun, thank you very much for that—really appreciate it. Okay, in which case, we've rattled through very quickly there the public business today. 

We've got a few items to go through in private, though, so, on that basis, if I can ask for your agreement on item No. 6, under Standing Order 17.42, that we move to exclude the public for the remainder of the meeting. Are we content? We are, so we'll move into private, please, if I could ask our clerks to take us into private.