National Assembly for Wales

Can I welcome everybody to today's hybrid meeting of the Senedd Petitions Committee? As a reminder, the meeting is being broadcast live on Senedd.tv and the Record of Proceedings will be published as usual. Aside from the procedural adaptations for conducting proceedings in a hybrid format, all other Standing Order requirements remain in place. Item 1 on today's agenda is apologies, substitutions and declarations of interest. We have received apologies from both Luke Fletcher and Buffy Williams, and there are no substitutions in their place. Can I remind all other committee members that they should note any declarations of interest either now or at the relevant point during today's proceedings?

Item 2 on the agenda today is Petition of the Year 2023. Over the last couple of weeks, the people of Wales have been voting for the five petitions the committee nominated to be our Petition of the Year 2023. The five nominees were: ban greyhound racing, care-experienced parents, endometriosis healthcare, metastatic breast cancer care, and water safety. Sharing the story of these five petitions and the impact they are having right across Wales is designed to inspire other people to think about using our petitions system to make your voice heard, and ensure that your Parliament is talking about the issues that you care about. I hope that people have been inspired, and we look forward to receiving your petitions in the future. But for now, I'm delighted to announce that this year's Petition of the Year award for 2023, as voted by the people of Cymru, is Mark Allen's law. Congratulations especially to Mark Allen's mum, Leeanne Bartley, and all of those who contributed to this piece of work.

Item 3 on today's agenda is new petitions. Item 3.1 is P-06-1338, 'Extend the bus emergency scheme and develop national bus recovery plan'.

'During the pandemic the Welsh Government launched the bus emergency scheme (BES) to safeguard the bus network. The Welsh Government are now looking to bring this scheme to an end, despite passenger numbers not recovering to pre-pandemic levels. We want to see both the funding secured for this financial year, and a national bus recovery plan co-produced with bus operators, passengers, local authorities and others, in order to build more comprehensive, sustainable bus services.'

Additional information is available to Members in their packs. This was submitted by Andrew Jenkins, with a total of 1,025 signatures. If I can bring Members in to discuss this petition and any actions they may wish to take. Rhys ab Owen.

Diolch yn fawr, Cadeirydd. This is a matter that has been discussed extensively at Plenary. We had a response from the Deputy Minister, but subsequently we've had a statement at Plenary stating that further funding is going to be made available to protect as much of the network as possible—£46 million in total. That's been relayed to the petitioner. He is concerned about the lack of promotion of public transport, has raised concerns about how are we going to reach targets of use of public transport without further promotion, and he's asked a number of questions to the Deputy Minister.

I suggest that we write to the Deputy Minister to ask whether a financial solution has now been secured for the remainder of the year, as noted in his May statement, as the May statement said that they nearly reached a solution. So, ask for an update on that, and send the helpful questions that the petitioner has sent to us on to the Deputy Minister. Diolch yn fawr.

Diolch yn fawr, Rhys, for that suggestion. Are Members content? They are. Just to put on the record as well and declare an interest, I know Unite the Union, their Welsh branch, has also done a Back Your Bus Route campaign; I've had many e-mails and letters from people signing their campaign. And to note that I'm a member of Unite the Union as well. But I congratulate the petitioner to date. As Rhys says, it's been raised extensively in the Senedd Chamber; Carolyn Thomas, in particular, I think is one that's done that. So, I congratulate Unite and her as well. 

Item 3.2, P-06-1339, 'Require all new Welsh homes to be fitted with solar panels as a condition of planning permission'.

'The world is facing an urgent energy crisis and we are all facing a daunting climate and nature crisis. This is why it is so important that the Welsh Government should lead the way in securing future renewable energy sources.

'This is why all new industrial, commercial and domestic builds (who are not shaded or north facing) should include solar energy as part of their planning consent.

'The sun produces more than enough energy to meet the whole world's energy needs and it's not going to run out.'

There's additional information available to Members in their packs. It's submitted by Robert Curtis with 268 signatures. I invite Members to discuss the petition and any actions they may wish to take. Joel James. 

Thank you, Chair. I want to thank the petitioner for raising this important petition. It does challenge the Welsh Government to try and be more innovative in its approach, but I'm conscious of the response that we've received from the Minister for Climate Change. There isn't any budging on this and she's outlined the reasons why—chief amongst them, the cost of rolling this out. I support that statement; it would be quite an expensive undertaking. I don't really know what much more can be done, other than to accept that there are two opposing arguments, really, that we can't necessarily get a resolution to. I suppose we might just have to close the petition and thank the petitioner, nonetheless, for raising it. 

Thank you for that suggestion, Joel. Are Members content? I can see they are. You're right; the Minister is very clear, but we do thank Robert Curtis for submitting. I think he's submitted a number of petitions now and I'm sure we'll see some more in the future as well. 

Item 3.3, P-06-1342, 'Fund more specialist school places and staff for children with additional learning needs in Wales'. 

'To look at funding provided for specialist provisions in Wales for children with additional needs it’s far from acceptable children with a high level of need being forced to stay in a mainstream environment due to spaces in schools and schools being underfunded and understaffed!'

Again, there is additional information available. This was submitted by Stevie Pyne with 1,429 signatures. I invite Members to discuss this petition. Rhys ab Owen. 

Diolch yn fawr, Cadeirydd. We've received a response from the Minister for Education and Welsh Language. In his response, he acknowledges capacity issues. He highlights unprecedented demand for additional learning needs services. He also mentions additional funding of £20 million that's been made available in 2022 to support improvement and creation of inclusive spaces and facilities in schools to enable learners' needs to be addressed. The Children, Young People and Education Committee is currently scrutinising implementation of the new additional learning needs system. It was highlighted in a Plenary debate by the Minister that Estyn are undertaking a thematic review of the implementation of the additional learning needs reforms, and that they're due to report in September. I suggest that we write to the Chair of the education committee to raise awareness of the petition with them in light of the current inquiry, and that we wait for the publication of the Estyn report in September. I note that we haven't received any comments from the petitioner yet, so maybe give them the additional time to provide any comments for us. 

Diolch, Rhys. Any other comments from Members? No. Content. 

Item 3.4, P-06-1343, 'Provide free public transport for all secondary school pupils'.

'I believe that all children in secondary schools in Wales should have the right to free public transport so that they can travel to their catchment area secondary school safely.

'We live 2.4 miles from our children's secondary school but our council states that free transport is only available to those who live 3 miles (or further) from their catchment secondary school. Walking to school would take between 50 minutes and an hour from our house along busy and congested roads. There is no safe cycle path.

'As a family we spend over £80 a month on bus tickets for our 2 children. It's money we really can't afford but for some parents finding £40 a month (per child) is impossible and so their children are forced to walk along dark, busy, dangerous and polluted roads to get to the school. This is unfair and discriminates against the poorest children in society.'

Again, there is further information available to Members. This was submitted by Elin Wyn Davies with 349 signatures. I invite Members to discuss this petition and any actions the committee may wish to take. Joel James.

Thank you, Chair. This is quite an important petition. I know we've dealt with several other similar ones, and I know we've got a watching brief on a few of them. This something that I quite support. I'm conscious that the Youth Parliament are currently doing a survey, and to be fair to them, they've had thousands of responses. But I know that closes in the summer, and I was thinking whether or not it might be beneficial for us as a committee to look at that response, because that's coming directly from schoolkids, really, and maybe even invite them in so we could speak to them as a Petitions Committee. 

Another issue I was wondering if I could raise is that I know last year, in June—or was it March? I can't remember—it was mentioned that there was going to be a review of the learner travel Measure, and I was just wondering if we could get an update on that, really, because I think the response on that would be quite important in formalising our response, I suppose.

Diolch, Joel. Any further comments? Agree? Yes. I must say, I think it's a great idea to bring the Welsh youth parliamentarians here to present their findings to us, but in the meantime, of course, seek that update from the Minister. 

Item 3.5, P-06-1348, 'Commission suitable NHS services in Wales for people with EDS or hypermobility spectrum disorders'.

'Historically, those showing signs of Ehlers-Danlos syndromes EDS or HSD have been referred to rheumatology departments. In 2021, they were directed to stop seeing these patients in favour of their diagnosis and management in primary care, which is not currently equipped for this role. A unique tertiary service in England has also closed to out of area patients. This situation has led to inequalities in access to healthcare for those with EDS and HSD in Wales resulting in unacceptable suffering.'

Again, there is further information available to Members. This was submitted by Natasha Evans-Jones with 1,122 signatures. I invite Members to discuss this petition and any particular actions they may wish to take. Rhys ab Owen.

Diolch yn fawr, Gadeirydd. This petition was part of a UK-wide petition, and we've received a helpful response from the Welsh Government. They have developed a Wales rare disease action plan for 2022-26, and helpfully, as part of that plan, there's also an implementation group, which oversees the delivery and monitors progress of the plan. There has been a progress report, and things seem to be going along with all the priorities for this year. That's been welcomed by the petitioner, but they have raised a few very important questions and concerns, which in my view should be shared with the health Minister. So, my suggestion is that we write to the health Minister with the important questions and concerns raised by the petitioner and ask for a response to those. Diolch. 

Diolch, Rhys. Joel James. 

Thank you, Chair. I'll be honest, it would be remiss of me not to come in here, because unfortunately a number of my family members suffer from EDS, and I know the debilitating illness it is, and what they go through. So anything we can do as a committee to try and support them I think would be a big boost for them, and I welcome my colleague's recommendations there as well. 

Thank you, both, and we'll certainly follow up on Rhys's suggestions in writing back to the health Minister. 

Item 4 on today's agenda is updates to previous petitions. Item 4.1 is P-05-1161, 'Routine collection and publication of data of how many babies/children return to their care experienced parents care at the end of a Parent and Child Placement'. This was submitted by Nicola Jones, with 60 signatures, and I remind Members this is a petition we did do a piece of work as an inquiry on. We published our committee report in March of this year. The Government have just responded back in June, 9 June, accepting or accepting in principle the six recommendations that we made. It's also worth noting the Children, Young People, and Education Committee have published their report 'If not now, then when? Radical reform for care experienced children and young people', making 27 recommendations to reform the wider care system.

I just want to take this opportunity to note the fact that we will be debating, alongside the CYPE committee, both reports on 12 July, so next week, and the Minister will be responding to both as well. I just want to put on record my thanks to both the clerking teams of this committee and CYPE committee for establishing this initiative and innovative idea, and thanks to the Chair of that committee as well, Jayne Bryant, for agreeing that we could do it in this way. I very much look forward to that debate taking place next Wednesday. Any other further comments from Members? No.

Item 4.2, P-06-1232, 'Stop the proliferation of intensive poultry units (IPUs) by legislating and introduce a moratorium until this can be achieved', submitted by Gill Marshall, with 5,920 signatures in total. I will bring Members in to discuss this petition now. Joel James.

Thank you, Chair. I'm conscious we've had this petition for some time now, and I know, from recent correspondence with the Minister, that the Minister is considering a request to call in poultry farm or poultry unit applications in the Powys County Council area. I know that the petitioner has come back with some follow-up questions in terms of further responses that the Minister has said and looking for timescales and that. I suppose it's probably best to seek if we can get clarification on that, and then maybe review this again later in the year, then, after recess, about October time or something.

Diolch yn fawr, Joel. Are Members content? They are.

Item 4.3, P-06-1287, 'Investigate C&V UHB’s refusal to keep north Penarth’s surgery, allocating patients to distant GPs', submitted by Max Scott-Cook, with 348 signatures in total. I bring Members in to discuss this petition and any actions they may wish to take. Rhys ab Owen.

Diolch yn fawr, Cadeirydd. This is the fourth time we've discussed this petition. We've had a firm response back from the health Minister, saying that she's unable to intervene in this matter, that it's a matter for the health board. We haven't received any further comments from the petitioner. Whilst I have real sympathy about the difficulty caused by the closure of any GP surgery, I don't think there's anything further that this committee can do, so my recommendation would be that we thank the petitioner and close the petition. Diolch yn fawr. 

Diolch, Rhys. Joel James.

Thank you, Chair. I'm conscious, in the past, that I've led quite heavily on this, because the petitioner has contacted me as his regional Senedd Member, but I agree with my colleague's comments here. I think there's not much more, as a committee, we can do on it, so it's probably up to us now to link up with the petitioner as a constituency Member or regional Member and link up in that way to see what can be done sort of thing.

Thank you, both, for those comments. I agree; I think this petition has reached the end of its journey with the committee. So, we will thank the petitioner and close.

Item 4.4, P-06-1291, 'Hold an enquiry into the corporate takeover of the veterinary profession in Wales', submitted by Dr Linda Evelyn Joyce-Jones, with 308 signatures, and I know Linda is here today watching the committee.

Just to update Members as well, I think it was last week now I sponsored and spoke at an event here in the Senedd where we heard a number of speakers—Linda included—and hard copies have been provided and published for Members to see the written evidence alongside that event. Just to say, through conversations I've had and the clerking team have had with the Chair and clerks of the Economy, Trade, and Rural Affairs Committee, there is support, it seems, for an inquiry into veterinary services in Wales, but, given their current commitments and forward work plan, it's unlikely to take place in the next two terms. Therefore, can I suggest as a committee that we seek to do a short one-day inquiry in the autumn term, inviting the Royal College of Veterinary Surgeons in and representatives from the industry to hear from them and put any questions that we have to them? And I say a short inquiry so that we can leave space for the ETRA committee when they do have time in their forward work programme and fewer commitments with legislation. They perhaps can take one, if they decide to undertake a more detailed inquiry, at a later stage. Are Members content with this suggestion? Any comments? I can see they're content. Thank you.

Item 4.5, P-06-1306, 'More protection for ancient & veteran trees in Wales. Old Trees can be relocated. Stop The Chop', submitted by Nicholas Bounds, with 480 signatures. I invite Members to discuss this petition and any actions they may wish to take. Joel James.

Thank you, Chair. I know as a committee we were waiting on the outcome of the Agriculture (Wales) Bill and whether or not there could have been a mechanism put in to try and help with this. Unfortunately, that's now gone past Stage 4, and there's been no such mechanism. So, I don't necessarily know what we could do further now as a committee. We've done quite a bit previously, writing to the Minister, keeping the petitioner updated. Unfortunately, I think this has probably come to the point where we might have to just close the petition and thank the petitioner.

Thank you, Joel. I can see Members are content and agree with your points and comments there. So, we will thank the petitioner and close the petition.

Item 4.6, P-06-1313, 'Allow exemptions to the 182-day occupancy rule to reduce harm to real Welsh self-catering businesses', submitted by a former colleague of ours here in the Senedd, Suzy Davies, with 1,750 signatures. I'll invite Members to discuss this petition and any actions they may wish to take. Rhys ab Owen.

Diolch yn fawr, Cadeirydd. I think we've all seen the concerns expressed through e-mails to our casework about the change in the occupancy rule and the impact that has on businesses in Wales. We discussed this in our meeting on 9 January, and, at the time, there was a consultation with regard to exceptions. That has been announced, and there are two further changes to do with removing the reference to 'short term'. This will ensure that properties that do not have a length of time specified in a holiday-let planning condition are exempted from the premium. The Minister confirmed that the Government were proceeding with the new exceptions as part of the regulation, and that came into force on 1 April this year. Now that the regulations have been implemented following the further technical consultation, my submission is that there is no further action that the committee can take, and that we thank Suzy Davies very much for her petition, for expressing the concerns of many people in Wales, but to close the petition.

Diolch yn fawr, Rhys. Further comments? Joel James.

Thank you, Chair. I agree with Rhys there. Unfortunately, now that the regulations have been implemented, there's very little scope of what we can do as a Petitions Committee and it's frustrating. I don't necessarily agree with what the Welsh Government have done. But, yes, we just have to close it now, I think.

Thank you, both, for that. Of course, thanks to Suzy for recognising the role the committee plays here in the Senedd as well. But, yes, we will have to close, given the comments Members already have said today.

Item 4.7, P-06-1317, 'Recognise Teaching Assistants as an important asset to schools by raising wage', submitted by Caroline Hugill with 1,405 signatures. I bring Members in now to discuss the petition and any actions the committee might want to take. Joel James.

Thank you, Chair. I'm happy with this petition in the sense of how it raises the importance of teaching assistants and basically the discrepancy in funding that there is for them, basically, across Wales, with different council areas paying them considerably—a lot—different sums. I think credit needs to be paid to Unison on this for raising that as an issue and basically fighting their corner. The thing is, there's a lot going on, really, within this, and I'm satisfied, actually, that we are getting somewhere with it, and I don't necessarily know what the Petitions Committee can do now. I think it's in hand and hopefully there will be a positive outcome, but, if you were minded to, we could hold back and get a response from the Minister. That's completely up to you, then, Chair.

Thank you for that suggestion, Joel. I can agree with you, I think, on seeking an update from the Minister. Of course, this is an important issue right across Wales. This is an important issue; teaching assistants do play an important role and are an important asset, so I think we will, on that suggestion, seek an update from the Minister. Are Members content? They are.

Item 4.8, P-06-1319, 'Provide a pedestrian crossing on A4042 at Goytre Arms crossroads and reduce the speed limit to 20mph', submitted by Janet Butler with a total of 656 signatures. I bring in Members now to discuss this petition and any actions they may wish to take. Rhys ab Owen.

Diolch yn fawr, Cadeirydd. Following this petition, an assessment has been made about a pedestrian crossing at Penperlleni. The threshold for a crossing has been met, and work will now be carried out to establish the most appropriate form of crossing at that site. The new guidance regarding speed limits will be published later on this year, and

'the work may see a change in the criteria for lower speed limits in Wales'.

So, as we've seen, the work on the crossing is being done, and the publication of new guidance for speed limits will be published later on this year. So, I think my submission is that we thank the petitioner for the petition and close the petition, as there is very little, if anything, that we can now do.

Diolch yn fawr for that, Rhys. I think the only other option to take to the petition is congratulations on their work as well, in getting a crossing. No doubt the petitions process has helped highlight some of those issues, so we do thank them and we will close this petition.

Item 4.9, P-06-1320, 'Allocate additional funding to Neath Port Talbot County Borough Council to ensure its sustainability', submitted by Mark Fisher with 414 signatures. I invite Members to discuss this petition and any actions the committee may wish to take. Joel James.

Thank you, Chair. I know that we kept this petition open to wait for the Minister's budget announcement to see if anything could be delivered there. Obviously that's happened, and nothing's happened, really, with that. Although I've got every sympathy for the petitioner, there isn't really anything we can do as a committee, so I think we'll have to close the petition.

Thank you, Joel. Do Members agree? They do.

Item 4.10, P-05-1106, 'Introduce Personal Health Budgets and Personalised Care in Wales', submitted by Rhys Bowler, with 779 signatures. I think we've considered this—this will be the seventh time that the committee has considered this petition, but I will bring Members in now to discuss any actions they may wish to take. Rhys ab Owen.

Diolch yn fawr, Cadeirydd. You're quite right, the seventh time this has been considered, but a positive outcome. On 27 June, the First Minister said in his statement regarding the legislative programme that they will legislate to introduce direct payments for continuing healthcare. So, I think all we can do now, as a committee, is to congratulate the petitioner for successful campaigning over many years and welcome this very positive outcome with the Welsh Government committing to introduce legislation to introduce the direct payments, so diolch yn fawr.

Diolch, Rhys, for that, and absolutely agree. I also say thanks to the petitioner, Rhys Bowler, for engaging with the committee throughout its journey as well.

Moving on to item 4.11 on today's agenda, and a paper to note from our petition, P-06-1326, 'The Senedd should scrutinise the prepayment meter scandal in Wales', and the associated inquiry the committee is looking into. Members will see in the papers the response to a letter from the committee from the chief executive of Scottish Power, Andrew Ward. Are Members happy to note the contents of that and, of course, we will discuss the contents in a private session, when we consider the inquiry again, but for now, are Members happy to note the paper? I can see that they are.

Moving on to papers 4.12 and 4.13, P-05-859, 'Provide Child Houses in Wales for victims of child sexual abuse', and P-05-914, 'Equal Access to Health Care for the Disabled'. These are the last remaining petitions from the fifth Senedd, and the committee previous to our committee—we haven't been able to make further progress on these petitions, so, as Chair, I'm proposing to the committee that now we take the opportunity to close these petitions, but of course thank the petitioners for engaging with the previous committee and our committee as well. Are Members content to do so? I can see that they are. 

Item 5, then. That does now conclude today's public business. Can I propose, in accordance with Standing Order 17.42(ix), that the committee resolves to meet in private for the remainder of today's session? Are Members content? I can see that they are. Okay. We will meet again on 11 September.

Just finally from me, then, to end this year's Senedd Committee Petitions, a 'thank you' to all the clerking teams and research team and everyone who helps us as a committee. Again, thanks to committee members for all their work. And again, congratulations to Leeanne Bartley, the petitioner of Mark Allen's Law, for being awarded petition of the year for 2023. And I look forward to seeing you and working with you all in September. Diolch yn fawr.