National Assembly for Wales

Good afternoon, everyone. Welcome to today's committee meeting. Does anyone wish to declare an interest before we proceed? No. Thank you. The meeting is being broadcast live on Senedd.tv, and the Record of Proceedings will be published as usual. Please make sure all mobile phone devices are turned to silent. A reminder that the Senedd operates through the medium of both the Welsh and English languages and that interpretation is available during today's meeting.

Moving on to item 2, instruments that raise no reporting issues under Standing Order 21.2 or 21.3, this is a standing agenda item and there are no instruments to consider under this item today.

Moving on to item 3, instruments that raise issues to be reported to the Senedd under Standing Order 21.2 or 21.3, again, this is a standing agenda item, and there are no instruments to consider under this item today.

Next, instruments that raise issues to be reported to the Senedd under Standing Order 21.2 or 21.3, previously considered. On pack page No. 1, we have the School Funding, Budget Statements and Outturn Statements (No. 2) (Wales) Regulations 2026, accompanied by a letter from the Cabinet Minister for Education and the Welsh Language dated 22 October. The Cabinet Minister has responded to the committee's questions about how the Welsh Government defines 'significant' costs for the purposes of assessing costs arising from the implementation of regulations. The letter states that the Welsh Government assesses costs on a case-by-case basis. The Welsh Government expects any implementation costs for local authorities to be largely transitional and manageable within existing arrangements. Do Members have any comments or observations to make? No. Thank you. Are Members content to note the response? Thank you.

Moving on to the Scallop (Amendment of Minimum Conservation Reference Sizes) (Wales) Regulations 2026, accompanied by the letter to the Cabinet Minister for Rural Resilience and Sustainability, dated 23 October 2026, it's in your pack at page 3. This is the committee's outgoing letter before the recess concerning the accessibility and accuracy of the published fisheries bye-laws for us to note. Are Members content to note the outgoing letter? Thank you.

Moving on to the Water Resources (Control of Agricultural Pollution) (Wales) (Amendment) Regulations 2026, we have the letter from Wales Environment Link, dated 28 October. Wales Environment Link has written about these regulations, raising concerns about the explanation for the breach of the 21-day rule. The letter states that Natural Resources Wales provided the Welsh Government with information on 11 September, over a month before the Minister notified the Llywydd of the urgent implementation of the regulations. The letter includes e-mail correspondence between the Welsh Government and Natural Resources Wales and information released under the Environmental Information Regulations 2004. The names, job titles or any other information that might identify any individuals have been redacted in the public document. Do Members wish to seek clarification from the Cabinet Minister about the concerns raised by Wales Environment Link?

Yes, I would, in particular. I mean, this is a very serious matter, and it’s the case, potentially, that there's been a bit of—. Has there been misrepresentation here, because, essentially, I think what we're looking at here is quite a serious breach, actually? So, I definitely would like to raise a concern.

Thank you. Huw.

Yes, I would second that. We’ve discussed in this committee before, haven’t we, the frustration about the timeliness of advice recommendations being handed down from the Welsh Government. This is an important area of policy, and I understand why it’s important to rural communities, but those decisions need to be backed up by confidence that the Minister's acted within the process. There are environmental concerns around this change in the regulations and, from the evidence provided in the letter from Wales Environment Link, it gives the impression that the Minister's hiding behind process, when actually that process was completed. So, I’d like further clarification as well, please.

Thank you. Pered.

Yes, happy to get clarification. I just wonder if this is straying into policy rather than process. Obviously, we’re concerned about the process, so it’s just whether that could be addressed in the letter as well, to see, because it’s a matter of policy rather than—. Obviously, the breach of the 21 days is part of our remit, but the policy aspect is a different committee and a different aspect, so I’d just like to, maybe, in the letter that we send, ask for that clarity as well.

Thank you. Sarah.

Nothing from me, thank you.

Chair.

Yes, Peter.

Thank you. It is a difficult one. I understand where Pered's coming from and I understand where Adrian and Huw are coming from. This is one of those things where I think pragmatism crosses the boundaries of policy and trying to make the right decision at the right time. This is a one-off decision. Now, I don’t need to declare an interest as a farmer any more because I don’t have any cattle and I don’t produce any slurry or anything like that, but I have a deep understanding of why the Minister would need to make a very pragmatic decision very quickly, and that has been so welcomed across the whole of Wales. Now, it may have contravened some of our reporting mechanisms and processes, which is understandable, and we need clarity on that, but I’m not opposed to the pragmatic decision that was made, providing it was made in the right way, and, if it wasn’t, lessons need to be learned how the Government should act in these sorts of things if they crop up again.

So, I think we do need to seek clarification from the Welsh Government and we’ll write to them this week. Do you all agree? Thank you.

Okay, moving on to papers to note, to the outgoing correspondence. Items 5.1 to 5.3 in your packs are outgoing letters, as agreed to during the previous meetings. Are Members content to note the papers? Thank you.

Moving on to incoming correspondence, the papers start at pack page 28. Just going through them, items 5.4 to 5.15 are incoming papers to the committee to note. I wish to highlight in particular the following papers: item 5.5 is a letter from the Chair of the Constitution, Justice and External Affairs Committee. The letter asks us to notify that committee if we undertake any work in relation to the Welsh Government's chief statistician's report, 'Wellbeing of Wales 2026'. I do not expect us to do so, but the clerks will monitor that on our behalf.

Item 5.6 is a letter from the Cabinet Minister for Finance. It invites me, as Chair of this committee, to attend a working group to develop a more appropriate legislative mechanism for amending Welsh tax Acts. Whilst I welcome the invitation and engagement with Senedd committees, I have concerns that it will be challenging and possibly inappropriate for the Chair of this committee to be on such a working group, given that the committee will have a role in scrutinising any new proposed legislation recommended by the working group. I propose that I do recuse myself, that I do not attend, and I will decline the invitation. Are Members content for the clerks to draft a letter accordingly? Yes. Thank you.

Moving on, item 5.10 is a letter from the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution, recommending that the Senedd gives its consent to the relevant provisions of the Public Office (Accountability) Bill, and we will discuss this further under item 9.

Item 5.13 is a letter from the Cabinet Minister for Government Effectiveness and the Constitution and the Counsel General regarding the committee's general scrutiny follow-up letter. In brief, the letter states that a central legislation specialist pool has been established to provide additional support and expertise to Bill projects where necessary. It states that the Noble review remains relevant, but that the Welsh Government's focus is on ensuring that improvement activity also responds to current evidence, challenges and opportunities. The Welsh Government is pressing for earlier and more meaningful engagement from the UK Government in relation to legislative consent memoranda.

Next is item 5.14, the Welsh Government's response to our report on the Sporting Events Bill. We will discuss this further under item 10.

And finally, item 5.15, a letter from the Cabinet Minister for Enterprise, Connectivity and Energy confirms that supplementary legislative consent memorandum No. 3 on the Commercial Payments Bill has been relaid to address errors or omissions highlighted by this committee. The relaid memorandum now includes a recommendation that the Senedd gives consent. Do Members have any other questions or comments? Yes, Sarah.

Yes, just two things. I note that the Llywydd sent a letter about committee Chairs and other roles held by Members. I think that's a good letter to have in terms of making sure that the speeches and stuff represent fully the committee's view and only the committee's view and don't go further than that.

And on the supplementary legislative consent motion on the Commercial Payments Bill, I notice that Adam Price hasn't given certain answers back. So, I hope that we will receive that on 6 November, and I hope that does actually make it clear on those questions that we asked.

Thank you. Any other questions or comments? No. Are Members content to note the papers? Thank you.

Moving on to the next item, in accordance with Standing Order 17.42(vi) and (ix), I invite the committee to resolve to exclude the public from the rest of today's meeting. Do Members agree? Thank you. We'll now confirm that the meeting is moving into private session.