National Assembly for Wales

Prynhawn da. Item 1, introduction, apologies, substitutions and declarations of interest. 

No apologies have been received today, and we're expecting that Mark Isherwood will be joining us online. As a reminder, the meeting is being broadcast live on Senedd.tv and the Record of Proceedings will be published as usual. Please can Members ensure that all mobile devices are switched to silent mode. Senedd Cymru operates through both the medium of the Welsh and English languages. Interpretation is available during today’s meeting.

Item 2 is instruments that raise issues to be reported to the Senedd under Standing Order 21.7: the Infrastructure (Wales) Act 2024 (Commencement No. 2) Order 2025. This Order is the second commencement Order under the Infrastructure (Wales) Act 2024. It brings sections 90 and 91 of the Act into force on 16 March. Senedd lawyers have identified one reporting point. A Welsh Government response has not yet been received. We have Jen from our legal team. Would you like to run through the reporting point?

Thank you, Chair. The point requests clarity from the Welsh Government regarding the commencement of two sections of the Act under this Order that appear to have previously already been partially commenced.

Thank you. Are Members happy to raise that with the Welsh Government? Yes.

Draft negative instruments: the Individual Candidate Election Expenses (Senedd Elections) Code of Practice 2025. The Senedd Cymru (Representation of the People) Order 2025 limits the amount that can be spent by or on behalf of individual candidates for Senedd elections. The code, which was prepared by the Electoral Commission and submitted to the Welsh Ministers for approval, gives guidance as to what does or does not fall within the definition of ‘election expenses’. The code does not give guidance to those candidates standing for election to the Senedd on behalf of a political party. Senedd lawyers have identified 10 reporting points. A Welsh Government response has not yet been received. We have Jen from our legal team. Would you like to run through the reporting points?

Thank you, Chair. The first point notes that this version of the code seeks to address the issues that were identified by this committee in the previously laid version of the code. The remaining points note inconsistency between the Welsh and English texts or issues with the wording in the Welsh text only. And as you say, Chair, a Government response is awaited.

Okay. Any Members wish to add anything? Are we happy to raise those points with the Welsh Government?

The Political Parties Campaign Expenditure (Senedd Elections) Code of Practice 2025. The code was also prepared by the Electoral Commission and submitted to the Welsh Ministers for approval. It clarifies what counts as campaign expenditure for Senedd elections and which expenses must be reported to the Electoral Commission. Senedd lawyers have identified one technical reporting point. A Welsh Government response has not yet been received. Jen from our legal team will take us through the reporting point.

The point simply notes an inconsistency between the Welsh and English texts.

Thank you, Jen. Are we happy to make that point? Any other issues? No.

Item 2.4, the Non-Party Campaigner Campaign Expenditure (Senedd Elections) Code of Practice 2025. This code gives guidance as to the operation of Part VI of the Political Parties, Elections and Referendums Act 2000. It sets out what constitutes non-party campaigning, which expenses qualify as controlled expenditure, including notional and joint campaigning, and the circumstances in which spending is considered to be regarded as incurred for the purpose of promoting or procuring electoral success, amongst other matters. Senedd lawyers have identified seven reporting points. A Welsh Government response has not yet been received. We have Jen from our legal team. Would you like to run us through the reporting points?

Yes. Three of the points again note inconsistencies between the Welsh and English texts and an inconsistent use of terms in the Welsh text only, and the other four points raise drafting issues relating to the use of definitions within the code.

Thank you. Members, anything to raise? 

I think, since now we've raised inconsistencies between the English and Welsh languages on almost every reporting point here, then I think it's worth a note to the First Minister to explain yet again, or the Counsel General, that this has been a theme throughout this Senedd and it's time the Government got it right. 

Yes. It's a matter that I've raised previously, Alun. I think there are difficulties. If the difficulty is getting English and Welsh to say the same thing, if they were to draft it in Welsh first and then translate it into English, it might be easier. Thank you.

Instruments that raise issues to be reported to the Senedd under Standing Order 21.2 or 21.3. The Procurement Act 2023 (Threshold Amounts) (Amendment) (Wales) Regulations 2025. These regulations update certain threshold amounts in Schedule 1 to the Procurement Act 2023 to determine the values above which different types of public contracts in Wales become subject to the substantive procurement regime. Senedd lawyers have identified two merits reporting points. A Welsh Government response has not yet been received. First, we have Jen from our legal team—would you like to run us through the reporting points?

Thank you, Chair. So, the first point notes that these regulations came into force on 1 January. The second point relates to the accessibility of the regulations. Although legally sound, some of the issues arising from amendments made by the regulations—because they came into force five minutes later than amendments made by UK Parliament regulations, there is some inconsistency in the way these regulations are being made available to the public. The report includes screenshots of three different legislation websites that show the law differently to illustrate the point. The report asked the Welsh Government to clarify which screenshot shows the correct law and to address the accessibility issues identified.

Thank you, Jen. Are Members happy to send that to the Welsh Government? Do Members have any other issues to raise?

The Council Tax (Alteration of Lists and Appeals) (Amendment) (Wales) Regulations 2025. These regulations amend the Council Tax (Alteration of Lists and Appeals) Regulations 1993. The principal amendments are the imposition of a requirement upon listing officers to provide property information to taxpayers who make eligible proposals, and allowing those taxpayers to appeal directly to the Valuation Tribunal for Wales against decisions of the listing officer or if a decision is not made by a listing officer within four months. Senedd lawyers have identified three technical reporting points. A Welsh Government response has not yet been received. Over to you, Jen.

Thank you. So, two of the reporting points address minor drafting issues in the regulations, and the other notes an inconsistency between the Welsh and English texts.

Thank you very much. Are we prepared to accept that? Do Members have anything they wish to raise? No. Okay, thank you.

The Public Health (Minimum Price for Alcohol) (Wales) Act 2018 (Continuation) Regulations 2026. These regulations disapply the scheduled repeal in section 22(1) of the 2018 Act so that the minimum pricing provisions for alcohol continue beyond the original six-year period. Senedd lawyers have identified one merits reporting point. A Welsh Government response has not yet been received. Jen, would you like to run us through the reporting point?

Thank you, Chair. The point notes that the instrument has been prepared outside the new software for Welsh statutory instruments, so minor formatting improvements will need to be made during the registration process. Because that point is noted in the explanatory memorandum, no response is requested from the Welsh Government.

Thanks, Jen. Any Members want to raise anything? No.

Item 3.4, the Public Health (Minimum Price for Alcohol) (Minimum Unit Price) (Wales) (Amendment) Regulations 2026—draft report. These regulations increase the minimum unit price for alcohol in Wales from 50p to 65p per unit. Senedd lawyers have identified one merits reporting point. A Welsh Government response is not required. Would you like to run us through the reporting point?

Thank you, Chair. Again, it's the same as in relation to the previous regulations, that there will be formatting improvements to be made during the registration process.

Thanks. Are Members happy with that?

The Tax Collection and Management (Visitor Levy Costs) (Wales) Regulations 2026. These regulations limit the Welsh Revenue Authority’s permitted deduction from visitor levy proceeds to 10 per cent, ensuring that principal councils receive the remainder after costs are deducted. The regulations also include a safeguard so that deductions cannot exceed the Welsh Revenue Authority’s actual operating costs for administering the visitor levy. Senedd lawyers have identified one technical and two merits reporting points. A Welsh Government response has not yet been received. Do you want to take us through the reporting points, Jen?

Thank you, Chair. The technical point requests an explanation from the Welsh Government as to why the term 'visitor levy' isn't defined in the regulations. A response is awaited in relation to that point, but no response is sought in relation to the merits points, which note that the amount of the deductions prescribed in these regulations must be paid into the consolidated fund, and again also note the formatting changes to be made as part of the registration process.

Thanks, Jen. Are we happy with that, Members? Yes.

Instruments that raise issues to be reported to the Senedd under Standing Order 21.2 or 21.3—previously considered. The Infrastructure (Wales) Act 2024 (Consequential, Transitional, Revocation and Saving Provisions) Regulations 2025. The committee considered this instrument at its meeting on 1 December and laid its report the same day. Members are invited to note the Welsh Government response to the report, which has since been received. Do you have anything to raise from the Welsh Government response, Jen?

Just to note that although the Government doesn't consider any further action is required in relation to the majority of the previous reporting points, where it does agree that amendment is required, an amending instrument is intended to be laid during this Senedd term.

Thank you. The Non-Domestic Rating (Provision of Information About Changes of Circumstances) (Wales) Regulations 2026. The committee considered this instrument at its meeting on 12 January, and laid its report the same day. Members are invited to note the Welsh Government response to the report, which has since been received. Jen, do you have anything to raise? 

Just to say that the Welsh Government will intend to use the correction prior to making procedure, to provide the clarity that the committee requested regarding its reporting points on when a claim to recover a penalty cannot be made under the regulations.

Thank you, Jen. Members have got nothing to raise. 

The Council Tax (Discounts, Disregards and Exemptions) (Wales) Regulations 2026. Committee considered this instrument at its meeting on 12 January, and laid its report the same day. Members are invited to the note the Welsh Government's response to the report, which has since been received. Jen, do you have anything to raise?

Again, Chair, just to note that the Government has accepted the majority of the reporting points and will address them using the correction prior to making procedure.

Do Members have anything to raise? No. 

Item 5, instruments that raise issues to be reported to the Senedd under Standing Order 21.7—previously considered. This is a standard item on our agenda, but there were no Welsh Government responses this week.

Item 6, notifications and correspondence under the inter-institutional relations agreement. Correspondence from Welsh Government: meetings of inter-ministerial groups. A letter from the Cabinet Secretary for Housing and Local Government: inter-ministerial group for housing, community and local government, 9 January 2026. We have one notification this week. Firstly, the Cabinet Secretary for Housing and Local Government notifies us that a meeting of the inter-ministerial group for housing, communities and local government will take place on 4 February. Do Members have any comments?

Correspondence from the First Minister of Wales: Celtic heritage agreement annual report. The letter from the First Minister informs us that the Celtic heritage collaboration agreement annual report 2025 has been published. Do Members have any comments? No.

Papers to note: correspondence from the Cabinet Secretary for Finance and the Welsh language—the Welsh Government's response to the Economy, Trade and Rural Affairs Committee's report on the Development of Tourism and Regulation of Visitor Accommodation (Wales) Bill. Members are invited to note the correspondence from the Cabinet Secretary in response to the report published by the Economy, Trade and Rural Affairs Committee on this Bill. Members, any comments? No. 

Correspondence from the Minister for Mental Health and Well-being: the Food Supplement (Magnesium L-threonate monohydrate) (Wales) Regulations 2026. The Minister for Mental Health and Well-being informs us that the draft of these regulations has been laid. The regulations, if approved by the Senedd on 24 February, will authorise the use of magnesium L-threonate monohydrate in a food supplement on the Welsh market. The Minister states that she is happy to engage with us on these regulations to support our scrutiny. Do Members have any comments? No. 

Correspondence from the Cabinet Secretary for Social Justice, Trefnydd and Chief Whip: the Welsh Government's response to the committee's report on the Welsh Government's supplementary legislative consent memorandum, memorandum No.2, on the Victims and Courts Bill. Members are invited to note the Welsh Government's response to our report on memorandum No. 2 on this Bill. Do Members have any comments? No. 

Correspondence from the Cabinet Secretary for Economy, Energy and Planning to the Economy, Trade and Rural Affairs Committee: European Commission adoption of renewed UK data adequacy provisions. The Cabinet Secretary for Economy, Energy and Planning has written to the Economy, Trade and Rural Affairs Committee to inform it that the European Commission has renewed two adequacy decisions to allow the free flow of personal data between UK and the European Economic Area. The decisions are subject to a sunset clause of six years, running until 27 December 2031, with a review of the functioning of the decisions due after four years. Do Members have any comments? No. 

Motion under Standing Order 17.42(vi) and (ix) to resolve to exclude the public from items 9, 10, 13 and 14. Can I move that? And we're happy to accept it. We're now in private session.

Can I welcome Members back to the meeting of the Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee? Can I also welcome Julie James MS, the Counsel General and Member in charge of the Bill, James George, the senior legislative counsel, Welsh Government, and Dion Thomas, head of legislation and performance, planning directorate, Welsh Government, who are here while we are discussing the Planning (Wales) Bill and the Planning (Consequential Provisions) (Wales) Bill?

This is detailed committee consideration. We will dispose of the amendments tabled to the Planning (Wales) Bill first, followed by those tabled to the Planning (Consequential Provisions) (Wales) Bill. The committee agreed the order of consideration for amendments on 15 December. A marshalled list and a grouping of amendments document have been produced for each Bill and have been provided to Members. The marshalled list arranges the amendments tabled to each Bill in line with the agreed order of consideration. The amendments have been grouped to facilitate debate in line with the grouping documents, but the order in which the amendments are called and moved for decision is dictated by the marshalled list. There will be one debate on each group of amendments. Members who wish to speak in a particular group should indicate this in the usual way.

In accordance with the established convention, as Chair, I will move all amendments, as all of them have been tabled in the name of the Counsel General. For expediency, I will assume that the Counsel General wishes me to move all of her amendments, and I will do so at the appropriate place in the marshalled list. Counsel General, if you do not want a particular amendment to be moved, please indicate this at the relevant point in the proceedings. In line with our usual practice, legal advisers to the committee and the Counsel General are not expected to provide advice on the record. If Members wish to seek legal advice during proceedings, please do so by passing a note to the legal adviser.

Moving on to the Planning (Wales) Bill, amendments 1 and 2 in the name of the Counsel General are the only amendments for consideration in the case of this Bill. The amendments are grouped for debate, and they both relate to the consistency of references to the planning authority for an area. 

I move amendment 1, the lead amendment, in the name of the Counsel General, and call on the Counsel General to speak to amendments 1 and 2.

Diolch, Cadeirydd. I suspect this will be a relatively short discussion, as both amendments are to ensure consistency in how the Welsh language text of the Bill refers to a planning authority for an area. Both amendments 1 and 2 make the necessary changes to paragraph 3 of Schedule 10 to the Bill, so that the terminology used there is consistent with that used elsewhere in the Bill. No corresponding changes are required in the English text of the Bill. I hope Members will welcome these minor improvements and will support the amendments, and I'd really like to thank the committee clerk once again for drawing our attention to these slight inconsistencies. Diolch.

Diolch. Do any Members wish to make any comments, or move anything? No. We will move to a vote. I propose that amendments 1 and 2 are disposed of en bloc. Does any Member object? No.

I therefore move amendment 2 in the name of the Counsel General. The question is that amendments 1 and 2 are agreed. Does any Member object? No. I see no objection. They have both been agreed.

That completes the detailed committee consideration proceedings for the Planning (Wales) Bill.

We will now consider the amendments tabled to the Planning (Consequential Provisions) (Wales) Bill, which are slightly longer. The amendments in the first group relate to consequential amendments to enactments. The lead amendment in the group is amendment 1 in the name of the Counsel General.

Unless the Counsel General indicates otherwise, I move amendment 1 in the name of the Counsel General, and call on the Counsel General to speak to the amendment and the other amendments in this group.

Diolch, Cadeirydd. This is obviously a very technical Bill, and all of the amendments I have tabled for discussion today are minor and technical in nature. They are all intended to ensure that the provisions of the consequential provisions Bill are up to date and operate correctly.

This group contains 19 amendments to Schedules 1, 2 and 3 to the Bill, which make consequential amendments to Acts passed by the UK Parliament and Acts and Measures passed here. Fifteen of the amendments in this group are intended to ensure that the consequential amendments that this Bill makes to existing planning legislation interact correctly with amendments that the Planning and Infrastructure Act 2025 makes to the same legislation. That Act received Royal Assent on 18 December. As I indicated during initial committee consideration, amendments are needed to ensure that the consequential provisions Bill reflects the final version of the 2025 Act as passed by the UK Parliament.

So, amendments 2, 4, 5, 6, 7, 9, 11, 15, 16, 17 and 18 are simply updating cross-references to the sections of the Planning and Infrastructure Act, because the numbering of those sections changed as the Act went through Parliament.

Amendments 1, 3 and 10 are adding new amendments to the Town and Country Planning Act 1990 for greater consistency. The amendments remove references to England that will be inserted into the 1990 Act by the Planning and Infrastructure Act 2025. The references to England will not be needed once our consolidation is in force, because we are making other amendments to the 1990 Act to limit its application to England.

Amendment 14 inserts a new amendment to the Transport and Works Act 1992, which is needed because of an amendment that was made to the Planning and Infrastructure Act during its passage through Parliament. As a result of that amendment, the 2025 Act includes a new section that inserts a provision into the Transport and Works Act 1992 about the validity of certain directions given under the Town and Country Planning Act 1990. That provision also needs to apply to the equivalent directions under the Planning (Wales) Bill.

Chair, there are four other amendments in this group. Amendment 8 removes an amendment to section 304 of the Town and Country Planning Act that is no longer considered necessary. Section 304 is about grants for education and research relating to the planning of the physical environment. It confers concurrent powers on the Secretary of State and Welsh Ministers in relation to Wales. The amendment in the consequential provisions Bill would have added wording to section 304 to indicate that the Secretary of State continued to have the power in relation to planning the physical environment of England and Wales. But, on reflection, we think it would be better not to make this amendment. The power can be used to give grants relating to planning the physical environment in general, but the amendment might have suggested that it was limited to planning in specific geographical locations.

And then amendment 12 makes a correction to the amendment that the Bill makes to section 203 of the Highways Act 1980. The amendment in the Bill does not take account of changes that have already been made to section 203 by the Building Safety Act 2022 (Consequential Amendments etc.) Regulations 2023. Amendment 12 will ensure that the amendment reflects those changes, and amendment 13 will repeal a provision of the Planning (Consequential Provisions) Act 1990 that is spent as a result of amendment 12.

And finally, Chair, in this group, amendment 19 updates a cross-reference to the Environment (Principles, Governance and Biodiversity Targets) (Wales) Bill that is currently going through the Senedd. Amendments were made to that Bill during its Stage 2 proceedings on 11 December, which had the effect of changing the number of the section that the consequential provisions Bill is referring to. These are all purely technical changes to ensure that the Bill interacts correctly with the rest of the statute book, and I hope Members will be able to support them. Diolch.

Diolch. Any Members wish to speak?

I'm content with the remarks made by the Counsel General.

Adam isn't, so, Adam.

Just very briefly, amendment 8, which you just referred to in summary, which relates to section 304 of the 1990 Act that you referred to, about relating to grants for research and education, could you just walk us through that again? You seem to have had a change of thinking. What sparked that? If you could just walk us through that again so we understand.

Sorry, the one about the environmental principles Bill—that one?

No, amendment 8, if I'm on the right one, which relates to grants for education and training, if I'm correct here.

Paragraph 159.

I wasn't following it. Sorry, Adam, I hadn't followed that properly. So, the power has not been restated in the Planning (Wales) Bill as the Welsh Ministers have general powers in the Government of Wales Act 2006 that we rely on to make payments of the kind covered by section 304 of the Town and Country Planning Act 1990. Those are sections 60 and 58A of GOWA. So, we don't think it's necessary to repeat the other provisions. Basically, it's a duplication and we think it's confusing.

Fine. It's not that we don't want Welsh Ministers to have powers—

No, we use different powers to do it, and we think that's a duplication and causes confusion rather than clarity.

Fine. Okay, with that clarification, I'm happy and content to support the amendments in this group. 

Thank you very much. Well, let's start on them then. The Counsel General has responded. So, can we move to a vote on amendment 1, which I moved earlier? The question is that amendment 1 be agreed. Does any Member object? There are no objections. 

I move amendment 2 in the name of the Counsel General. The question is that amendment 2 be agreed. Does any Member object? I see no objections. 

I move amendment 3 in the name of the Counsel General. The question is that amendment 3 be agreed. Does any Member object? I see no objections.

I propose that amendments 4, 5, 6 and 7 are disposed en bloc. Does any Member object? I see no objections.

I move amendments 4, 5, 6 and 7 in the name of the Counsel General. The question is that amendments 4, 5, 6 and 7 be agreed. Does any Member object? No-one objects. 

I move amendment 8 in the name of the Counsel General. The question is that amendment 8 be agreed. Does any Member object? There are no objections.

I move amendment 9 in the name of the Counsel General. The question is that amendment 9 be agreed. Does any Member object? I see no objection, but I do see a sneeze. [Laughter.]

I move amendment 10 in the name of the Counsel General. The question is that amendment 10 be agreed. Does any Member object? I see no objections. So, amendment 10 is agreed.

I move amendment 11 in the name of the Counsel General. The question is that amendment 11 be agreed. Does any Member object? I see no objections. Therefore, amendment 11 is agreed.

I move amendment 12 in the name of the Counsel General. The question is that amendment 12 be agreed. Does any Member object? There are no objections, so amendment 12 is agreed.

I move amendment 13 in the name of the Counsel General. The question is that amendment 13 be agreed. Does any Member object? No, there are no objections. Amendment 13 is agreed.

I move amendment 14 in the name of the Counsel General. The question is that amendment 14 be agreed. Does any Member object? I see no objections. Amendment 14 is agreed.

I move amendment 15 in the name of the Counsel General. The question is that amendment 15 be agreed. Does any Member object? I see no objections. Amendment 15 is agreed.

I move amendment 16 in the name of the Counsel General. The question is that amendment 16 be agreed. Does any Member object? I see no objections. Amendment 16 is agreed.

I move amendment 17 in the name of the Counsel General. The question is that amendment 17 be agreed. Does any Member object? I see no objections. Amendment 17 is agreed.

I move amendment 18 in the name of the Counsel General. The question is that amendment 18 be agreed. Does any Member object? I see no objections. Amendment 18 is agreed.

I move amendment 19 in the name of the Counsel General. The question is that amendment 19 be agreed. Does any Member object? I see no objection. Therefore, amendment 19 is agreed.

Group 2, transitional and saving provisions—amendments 20, 21 and 22. The amendments in the second group relate to transitional and saving provisions. The lead amendment in this group is amendment 20 in the name of the Counsel General.

Unless the Counsel General indicates otherwise, I move amendment 20 in the name of the Counsel General and call on the Counsel General to speak to this amendment and the other amendments in this group.

Diolch, Cadeirydd. This group contains three amendments adding to the transitional and saving provisions in Schedule 5 to the Bill to clarify that the consolidation exercise does not change the law in two respects.

Amendment 20 inserts a new paragraph to ensure that where there are powers that can be exercised in relation to legislation enacted before a particular date, and those powers could be exercised in relation to the existing planning legislation, they will continue to be available in relation to the consolidation Bills. This will mainly be relevant where Acts give Ministers powers to make consequential amendments to earlier legislation. So, for example, an Act passed in 2020 might contain a power to consequentially amend legislation enacted before 2020. At the moment, that power could be used to amend the legislation that will be restated in the Planning (Wales) Bill. It is not entirely clear whether the power could be used in future to amend the Planning (Wales) Bill itself, which would, obviously, have been passed after 2020. So, amendment 20 inserts a new saving provision to ensure that such a power would continue to apply to the planning Bills.

As you can see from the range and number of consequential amendments in this Bill, planning legislation interacts with a huge amount of other legislation. There may be outstanding changes that still may need to be made to planning legislation as a result of other enactments, or changes that have already been made that may need to be adjusted in future. The purpose, therefore, of amendment 20 is to preserve existing powers so that these kinds of issues can be dealt with after the consolidation in the same way that they could have been before it.

Amendments 21 and 22 are in response to recommendation 4 in the committee's report. They provide clarification on the point about the expiry of local development plans that was raised by two national park authorities. As outlined in my response to the committee's report, the amendments will mean that the consequential provisions Bill states that the provisions in Section 19 of the Planning (Wales) Bill relating to the expiry of plans do not apply to local development plans that were adopted before 4 January 2016. Amendment 21 inserts a new paragraph to that effect in Schedule 5. The new paragraph also incorporates a related transitional provision about the effect of a reference to the expiry of development plans in a part of the main Bill about blight notices. That other transitional provision was previously included in a later paragraph of Schedule 5 to this Bill, which will be repealed by amendment 22, as a consequence of moving it into the new paragraph inserted by amendment 21.

Chair, these are minor changes to ensure that the law is not changed by the consolidation of planning legislation, and I hope that Members will be able to support them. Diolch.

Do any Members wish to speak?

I'm content. 

Adam.

Yes. Just in relation to amendment 20, it does seem quite broad and, from what you were saying there, it's deliberately so because there might be bits of re-enacted or consolidated legislation that interrelate with other Bills that you haven't mapped yet, and it's giving you a bit of a catch-all power in relation to those. I suppose the question, on reading the explanation initially, is: if the powers in those Acts are contained within the consolidated legislation, then aren't implicitly the powers that you refer to here also included? Do you see what I mean? To help my understanding, could you give any—? It's a bit difficult, because I'm asking you to give concrete examples of things that you're not already aware of, but, maybe by way of illustration somehow, how could there be something that is consolidated but you have to have this belt and braces because you're not sure if the power restated in the consolidation Bill enables you to do what was in the original Act?

Yes, it's a 'for the avoidance of doubt' provision, I believe, isn't it? Is somebody going to tell me differently?

I'm grateful if somebody can understand my question, let alone give me an answer.

It probably is there, but this is an 'avoidance of doubt' provision. Those powers exist in existing planning law; we are merely making sure, putting it beyond doubt, that they also exist in this law, effectively. So, it was never our intention to take those powers away, and we're just ensuring that they continue. I can't, off the top of my head, think of an example.

Right. And it doesn't in any way expand the scope of any—

No. We're making sure that the previous powers continue to exist because those powers were stated in a 2020 Act and this is subsequent to that Act, in case anyone would think that—

So, for example, you might have inadvertently deleted a section within previous legislation and, inadvertently, in doing so, you've actually prevented yourself from availing—[Inaudible.]

Yes, we might have made a mistake, or—. In all fairness, planning law interacts with pretty much everything you can think of, so there may be something that we've neglected and this gives the Welsh Ministers the power to correct that. I think that's right.

Okay. On that basis, I'm content to support the amendments. 

I should say that it continues the power that the Welsh Ministers have to correct it. It's not giving us anything; it's a continuation. 

Okay. Counsel General, do you wish to proceed to a vote on amendment 20?

Yes. Well, can I just say a couple of other things, Chair, then, as this is my last opportunity to speak in today's proceedings? Can I just make a few closing remarks, if that's okay?

You do have an opportunity later, but carry on.

Okay. Well, if you want to give me the opportunity at the end, that's fine, as long as I get it at some point. 

I've got some questions for you at the end as well. 

Okay. Fine.

The question is that amendment 20 be agreed. Does any Member object? No. Amendment 20 is agreed.

I move amendment 21 in the name of the Counsel General. The question is that amendment 21 be agreed. Does any Member object? No. Amendment 21 is agreed.  

I move amendment 22 in the name of the Counsel General. The question is that amendment 22 be agreed. Does any Member object? No. Amendment 22 is agreed.

That completes the detailed committee consideration proceedings for the Planning (Consequential Provisions) (Wales) Bill. 

In accordance with Standing Order 26C.36, the committee must report to the Senedd on the outcome of its detailed consideration of the Planning (Wales) Bill and the Planning (Consequential Provisions) (Wales) Bill and its view as to whether each Bill should proceed to detailed Senedd consideration or to the final stage. Counsel General, to help inform the committee's recommendation, do you consider that there is a need to bring forward further amendments to the Planning (Wales) Bill or the Planning (Consequential Provisions) (Wales) Bill?

No, I don't think, Chair, that there will be any further amendments, but we will be bringing forward a revised explanatory memorandum to reflect the changes that have been agreed already by amendment.

Okay. Is there anything else?

The only other thing I wanted to say was I wanted to say 'thank you very much' to the committee members for the detailed consideration. I particularly wanted to thank the clerking team for the constructive way that they've engaged with the Government's officials on this. And I just wanted to extend my thanks to my own team, who have worked on this for many, many years, and so it's very lovely to get to this stage with it.

Yes, I think it is. I've never been in any committee here where so many people who came to give evidence raised how helpful and how useful one member of the Government's team relating to this legislation was. It was almost as if their fan club was turning up. [Laughter.] But I think that that is obviously good news. So, if that's the case, then thank you, Counsel General, and you did say that there will be a revised explanatory memorandum.

Great. So, hopefully, Chair, that means we can move to the final stage in the Senedd very shortly, and I think that will be a real, major accomplishment for the Senedd, to have consolidated such a large area of law. Diolch.

I hope so as well; we've spent a long time on it. Okay, thank you very much. Can I just thank you and your officials for your attendance? Obviously—you know this—you will be sent a transcript of the meeting to check for factual accuracy, and, again, thank you very much for coming along, thank you very much for giving your time, and thank you very much for answering our questions so succinctly. Thank you.

I can't remember whether I actually moved that we would move into private in accordance 17.42(vi) and (ix) for item 13. If I haven't, can I move it now? Agreed. Thank you.