Pwyllgor Diwylliant, Cyfathrebu, y Gymraeg, Chwaraeon, a Chysylltiadau Rhyngwladol
Culture, Communications, Welsh Language, Sport, and International Relations Committee
12/11/2025Aelodau'r Pwyllgor a oedd yn bresennol
Committee Members in Attendance
| Alun Davies | |
| Delyth Jewell | Cadeirydd y Pwyllgor |
| Committee Chair | |
| Gareth Davies | |
| Heledd Fychan | |
| Lee Waters | |
| Mick Antoniw | |
Y rhai eraill a oedd yn bresennol
Others in Attendance
| Derek Walker | Comisiynydd Cenedlaethau'r Dyfodol Cymru |
| Future Generations Commissioner for Wales | |
| Dr Sophia Woodley | The Audience Agency |
| The Audience Agency | |
| Efa Gruffudd Jones | Comisiynydd y Gymraeg |
| Welsh Language Commissioner | |
| Jacob Dafydd Ellis | Swyddfa Comisiynydd Cenedlaethau’r Dyfodol Cymru |
| Office of the Future Generations Commissioner | |
| Osian Llywelyn | Swyddfa Comisiynydd y Gymraeg |
| Welsh Language Commissioner's Office | |
| Sandy Clubb | Swyddfa Comisiynydd Cenedlaethau’r Dyfodol Cymru |
| Office of the Future Generations Commissioner |
Swyddogion y Senedd a oedd yn bresennol
Senedd Officials in Attendance
| Lowri Barrance | Dirprwy Glerc |
| Deputy Clerk | |
| Manon Huws | Cynghorydd Cyfreithiol |
| Legal Adviser | |
| Osian Bowyer | Ymchwilydd |
| Researcher | |
| Richard Thomas | Clerc |
| Clerk | |
| Robin Wilkinson | Ymchwilydd |
| Researcher |
Cynnwys
Contents
Cofnodir y trafodion yn yr iaith y llefarwyd hwy ynddi yn y pwyllgor. Yn ogystal, cynhwysir trawsgrifiad o’r cyfieithu ar y pryd. Mae hon yn fersiwn ddrafft o’r cofnod.
The proceedings are reported in the language in which they were spoken in the committee. In addition, a transcription of the simultaneous interpretation is included. This is a draft version of the record.
Cyfarfu’r pwyllgor yn y Senedd a thrwy gynhadledd fideo.
Dechreuodd y cyfarfod am 09:31.
The committee met in the Senedd and by video-conference.
The meeting began at 09:31.
Bore da a chroeso heddiw i'r cyfarfod o'r Pwyllgor Diwylliant, Cyfathrebu, y Gymraeg, Chwaraeon a Chysylltiadau Rhyngwladol. Oes gan unrhyw Aelod fuddiannau i'w datgan, os gwelwch yn dda? Dwi ddim yn gweld bod.
Good morning and welcome to today's meeting of the Culture, Communications, Welsh Language, Sport and International Relations Committee. Are there any declarations of interest from Members, please? I don't see that there are.
Felly, dŷn ni'n symud yn syth ymlaen at eitem 2. Dŷn ni'n edrych ar y Bil diwylliant, a sesiwn dystiolaeth gyda Chomisiynydd Cenedlaethau'r Dyfodol Cymru. Gwnaf i ofyn i'r comisiynydd yn gyntaf i gyflwyno'i hunan ar gyfer y record.
So, we move straight on to item 2. We're looking at the culture Bill, an evidence session with the Future Generations Commissioner for Wales. I'll ask the commissioner, first of all, to introduce himself for the record.
Derek Walker, Future Generations Commissioner for Wales. Bore da.
Diolch yn fawr iawn. A Sandy, os gallech chi gyflwyno eich hunan.
Thank you very much. And Sandy, if you could introduce yourself.
Diolch. Sandy Clubb, arweinydd polisi ar gyfer ymgysylltu, cydweithio a diwylliant.
Thank you. Sandy Clubb, policy lead for involvement, collaboration and culture.
Croeso mawr i chi hefyd. A Sophia.
A warm welcome to you. And Sophia.
Thank you. I'm Sophia Woodley. I'm head of policy research at the Audience Agency.
Croeso mawr. Ac yn olaf, ar y sgrin, mae gennym ni Jacob.
A warm welcome. And finally, on the screen, we have Jacob.
Bore da. Jacob Ellis, cyfarwyddwr materion allanol a diwylliant yn swyddfa Comisiynydd Cenedlaethau'r Dyfodol Cymru.
Good morning. Jacob Ellis, director for external relations and culture at the office of the Future Generations Commissioner for Wales.
Diolch yn fawr iawn. Croeso mawr i chi i gyd. Mae gennym ni ryw awr gyda chi, felly gwnawn ni symud yn syth at gwestiynau os yw hwnna'n iawn. Allaf i ofyn yn gyntaf, mae lot o ddiddordeb wedi bod yn y cysyniad yma o Fil diwylliant, a allech chi ein siarad ni drwy beth fyddai hynny'n ei wneud a pham dŷch chi'n meddwl ei fod yn angenrheidiol?
Thank you very much. A very warm welcome to you all. We have about an hour with you, so we'll move straight to questions if that's okay. Could I ask, first of all, there's been great interest in this concept of a culture Bill, could you talk us through what it would do and why you think it's needed?
Great, yes. Thank you very much, and thank you for the invitation to come and speak to you today. It's great that this has led to a debate and a conversation about what a culture Bill might include.
You'll probably know, but I'll repeat, I've got five mission areas, and one of the mission areas that I'm focusing on is culture and the Welsh language. And in undertaking my role to advise, scrutinise and hold public bodies to account, I include in that trying to find and identify possible solutions to the challenges that we're facing in delivering our goals and meeting our indicators.
So, we debated and considered what we could recommend as part of the 'Future Generations Report 2025', which I published in April, my five-year report recommending what I think the public sector should be focusing on to make more progress against our goals and indicators. And in coming to this recommendation, we looked at the funding position—you've talked about this as a committee, I know, in detail, and you've considered the challenges facing the cultural organisations that exist in Wales. I've looked, also, at the well-being objectives of public bodies, and I can come on to that perhaps later. But when you look at the well-being objectives set by our public institutions, culture and the Welsh language is towards the bottom of the pile—second but one in terms of the priority that they're giving it. And then again, if you look at the indicators, some of the indicators are not going in the right direction.
So, we proposed a culture Bill. On balance, I think legislation is going to be helpful for securing the long-term future of the strength of our culture in Wales, but I recognise that there is a lot that needs to happen besides that. Legislation, as we know, is not enough on its own to be able to make the impact that we want it to, so we talk about it being part of a package of measures. But I think as a sort of gold standard, including legislation would be an important part of that. And in making my recommendations, we've just received the responses back from public bodies to the 50 recommendations—from most of the public bodies, I should say, including Welsh Government. I was pleased that the Welsh Government has said in its response to the culture Bill that this is something that the next Welsh Government should be considering. So, a relatively favourable response.
Before I get on to the specifics of the culture Bill, and I will do, I'm delighted that you've been able to welcome Sophia here from the Audience Agency. In putting together these recommendations, we've sought expertise from those working in the sector. So, the Audience Agency is a not-for-profit, independent research and development agency that specialises in work in the culture and arts sector. So, they've done a lot of work in thinking about what a culture Bill might include. So, I'm going to bring in Sophia in a second, if that's all right, Chair.
So, in terms of why a culture Bill, and then perhaps what it could contain, recognising that it's not the only way we can achieve some of these objectives, but as part of a package, I think it's important. I think it has the opportunity to demonstrate how culture is a priority, and by defining it in a way that's not done in the Well-being of Future Generations (Wales) Act 2015, it can give clarity about what we're expecting of our public sector in terms of delivery.
I think it has the opportunity to do something about ending the unequal provision, or the postcode lottery, that we might see in terms of culture. I think it would help with integrating, planning and implementation by public bodies in terms of what they do around culture. And if it had got to the point of defining standards or being very specific, then it gives the public opportunities to challenge public bodies, should they not be seeing the provision that they would like to see.
But many of these aims could be achieved without legislation—I get that. It doesn't take away from the fact that resources are needed too, and this doesn't magic up resources, although I think it does help, and I can come on to that in a second. And there are risks that we enter a sort of more compliance-based approach with a culture Bill. So, I see that, but on balance, I think the culture Bill is, and legislation is, something that we should consider.
So, I'll bring Sophia in in a second, because we've looked at, in a bit more detail, what you could include in a culture Bill. So, if I give you the headings, and Sophia can come in and give you the detail. The types of things that we think it could include, and we've drawn on examples that we've looked at elsewhere, particularly what they're doing in Spain around cultural rights at the moment, but we could be, as I've mentioned, talking about how we define culture in law. So, I would propose beyond what our sector provides, beyond what the institutions are providing, but talking more broadly about culture.
I think we could consider how you might incorporate cultural rights: so, people's access to culture and what they should be expecting from the public sector, which is increasingly being considered by other countries. You can get further into the statutory duties: so, what are we expecting public bodies to be delivering as part of a culture Bill? That would need to be accompanied by guidance. And I know we've got statutory duties around libraries, and that's not necessarily led to all our libraries being kept open, has it? So, there are challenges around that, I understand that.
And you could even get to the point of including specifications about budgets and so forth. So, it enables you to create a framework and a lot more specificity, I think, around our expectations for cultural provision. So, if I could bring Sophia in, who's done a lot of this work that I'm taking credit for by mentioning. Sophia, perhaps you could explain in a bit more detail.
Yes, absolutely. Thank you. Basically, we were asked by the commission to look at the options around what a culture Bill might contain and to consider without necessarily favouring one or the other. But I think that the lesson, in a sense, is that it isn't so much about picking one choice or another, it's about picking something that actually stands together as a package.
Derek has mentioned the example of Spain's plan on cultural rights, which was published recently and brings together—it's an interesting example—the concept of culture as a human right, which is foundational to everything they're doing; set strategic priorities; legislative commitments, so that's part of it, but not all; budgetary commitments; and proposed governance mechanisms, including participatory practice, as a way of bringing communities into defining what they want from culture for themselves. So, that's an interesting example.
I would suggest that the Active Travel (Wales) Act 2013 and the way that active travel has been treated also provides a really good example of a well-being-led integrated approach that isn't just about roads and driving, but is about people's well-being generally.
In terms of the options for a culture Bill, first of all, that idea of defining culture in law, which is a surprise, because one thinks of the well-being of future generations Act as actually having defined culture—it sets it as a goal—but it doesn't, and so the stakeholders—we've done quite a bit of consultation as part of this, which Sandy, I think, will be able to talk about later, but stakeholders—have said that it's really important to define culture in terms of setting out what public bodies are expected to support. And this maybe isn't just a matter of defining culture is the film sector plus museums plus libraries, although all of that is important. International definitions of culture, such as used by the UN, bring together culture as an integral part of communities and societies, so that it's about people's ordinary lives, and supporting that is really what a well-being-centred approach is all about. So, it could help to shift that focus.
There is the potential to bring international conventions about cultural rights into Welsh law. This would be in line with the Welsh Government priorities for culture, which set out the ambition that cultural democracy and cultural rights are central to culture in Wales. Also, our consultation showed overwhelming consensus from stakeholders and members of the public that people in Wales should be able to enjoy a broad range of cultural rights, some of which they do already, but some of which could be underlined. This could be done in a range of ways, either directly or indirectly, and I can go into more detail about that if it's of interest.
Statutory duties to ensure provision are also an option; obviously, one that's familiar from the existing model of libraries and archive services. There is some scepticism from stakeholders about this. Obviously, library closures have happened and are familiar, so there's this question of would that just support a minimum level of provision, but maybe one that's more in principle than in practice. However, taking a cultural rights based foundation or a foundation that's more about people's experiences of culture, possibly could shift the focus from saying, 'There must be a library here or a theatre there', to saying, 'The duty is to ensure that people have a provision that's sufficient to enable their exercise of these cultural rights', which allows a bit more flexibility about how you achieve that; it allows the possibility that third sector bodies and businesses are part of that, and public bodies ensure that the ecosystem is working, rather than necessarily providing directly.
Other options are potentially setting a statutory minimum percentage for culture in budgets. There's the example of the Liverpool city region that has a 1 per cent for culture initiative, so 1 per cent of its devolution funding goes on cultural activities. This would be particularly suited to supporting cross-sectoral working, ensuring health and transport come in. That obviously would go in tandem with principles. Finally and quickly, cultural democratic approaches so participatory practice is possible, and the minimum basic income for artists that has been introduced in Ireland is now out of the pilot phase and is being implemented, and there was some support in the consultation for looking at that.
Sophia, that was incredibly useful; lots of information there. Thank you so much. That's really, really useful. There will be some supplementaries that I know that Members will have, so thank you ever so much. I'm going to bring in, firstly, Mick.
Thank you for that description, but, at the end of the day, when you're talking about resources, those are political decisions that Governments decide; they're based on manifesto commitments and a whole series of things. Everything you have described, including Liverpool for example, is no different to what existed I think some 30, 40 years ago, where 1 per cent of projects should go on some sort of art element in construction and so on. None of it actually requires legislation to do, so isn't it surely a matter of political choice? This is really a matter for Governments to get together with. To try to define culture legally seems to me to be one of the most pointless tasks that you could actually ask a legislature to do. So, excuse me for being a little bit sceptical, but do we really need to be talking about legislation for this, when, in reality, it is about the question of political choices that Governments make and the electorate make in the Governments they elect?
Well, that's not my view. I understand, and, as I said from the outset, there is so much you can do without legislation, and would need to happen without the legislation, and the political choices. What you do with putting together the legislation is you—. So, to answer the question about clarifying in law how you define culture, there's actually a lot in international law that the UK has adopted that isn't necessarily communicated and used in practice in Wales. So, it's not starting from scratch; we're drawing on these international definitions of culture for any culture Bill. But by having a statutory requirement, for example, of public bodies, you have an expectation that they would be delivering certain services, and you could define that in a bit more detail than perhaps we have at the moment.
One of my frustrations at the moment—. I can see how you might think, well, we've got a culture and a Welsh language goal in the well-being of future generations Act, shouldn't that be enough? Well, so far we've seen that it hasn't been taken up or considered as a priority by many of our public bodies. And we're working on that; I'm not letting that go. But by giving a definition about the duties on public bodies, you can, I think, see more and perhaps more resources.
So, one of my frustrations at the moment is, actually, we see—. Culture should be the responsibility of all our public sector organisations, not just a responsibility for Amgueddfa Cymru or the library. It's a responsibility for our health service to understand how, when they're spending their funding and thinking about prevention, they could be using their resources in a way that both supports our culture and our arts sector, but also helps with our well-being and prevents ill health. So, you can be, I think, more specific and directive of our public bodies through legislation than the existing legislation is doing.
Can I just ask, then, what discussions you may have had specifically with, I suppose, other bodies? Is it solely within the cultural field? What conversations have you had, and have you had any further discussions with Government about, I suppose, their desire for this, but also what it might actually mean in practice? Because it really has quite serious implications if you're legislating in respect of percentages of budgets and so on, as they go through, as you'll be aware.
We've presented options there about what the legislation might include. We've spoken more broadly, and it's my job not just to—. I'm not here to represent those who lead the culture and arts sector, and I know you've spoken to them about their views in previous committee sessions. This has been about taking an overview of culture in Wales and drawing on a broader range of perspectives. So, in putting together the future generations report in the first place, as you would expect, there was a whole heap of involvement and engagement right across public services, private sector and beyond, and Sandy can talk in a bit more detail about that if you'd like.
But, subsequent to the recommendation, we've done more in-depth work, and we've done that with the Audience Agency. So, I've got a record of the types of things that we've done, but suffice it to say there's been a huge amount of interest in this. Just in six weeks we've spoken to 250 people about this. Ninety-nine people responded with written evidence. Eighty stakeholders took part in our cultural forum. We don't always get that level of attendance at the events that we hold. Twenty members of the public attended two online groups. We've had one-to-one discussions with key stakeholders, including UN special rapporteurs. We've spoken to the School of International Futures and others. So, there's been quite a wide range of engagement beyond the public sector.
We have spoken to Government, and I mentioned at the beginning the response that we've just had back from the Minister. We haven't spoken in any detail other than to have that relatively positive response that this should be something that Government could consider in future, but, clearly, there's not time to be doing that before the Senedd elections.
Rwyf i'n meddwl bod Jacob eisiau dod i mewn.
I think that Jacob wanted to come in.
Diolch, Gadeirydd. Os caf i fynd yn ôl at gwestiwn cychwynnol Mick yn gyntaf.
Yes, thank you, Chair. If I may go back to the initial question that Mick asked.
I think, Mick, there is a need for us to have a serious conversation about what interventions might be needed to strengthen cultural well-being in Wales. We've seen cuts across various years in the culture sector. What we're proposing is that a culture Bill might seek to be the next intervention that's needed to strengthen the cultural sector and also to safeguard the future of the culture sector and its workforce for the future, to provide that kind of long-term certainty and assurance for those working in the sector and those who we're seeking to attract to work in the sector.
We've seen multiple examples across the past year. I fear that the Chair may need to declare an interest in a second as I talk about Llancaiach Fawr, the closure of such an important cultural asset on the one hand, versus, then, an education curriculum in Wales that has an emphasis on cynefin, on supporting pupils to engage with local heritage—one part of Government promoting that and the other part of Government not possibly seeking to put measures in place to protect cultural assets. So, we have particular key statutory requirements for key services in local government. This is about elevating the role that culture can play alongside those other key services. Those are the gaps I think that are out there at the moment that a culture Act would seek to address.
Mae Heledd yn moyn gofyn cwestiwn atodol. Jest ar gyfer unrhyw un sydd yn gwrando, y rheswm pam roedd Jacob yn dweud efallai byddaf i angen datgan diddordeb yw bod yr ymgyrch i achub Llancaiach Fawr yn rhywbeth roeddwn i'n ymwneud â hi yn fawr yn lleol. Felly, diolch am hwnna, Jacob. Mae Heledd eisiau dod i mewn, wedyn fe wnaf i ddod yn ôl.
Heledd wants to ask a supplementary question. For those listening, the reason Jack said I might have to declare an interest is that the campaign to save Llancaiach Fawr was something that I was involved with locally. So, thank you for that. Heledd wants to come in, and then I'll come back.
Diolch. Jest o ddiddordeb imi—rydych chi wedi cyfeirio eithaf lot at Sbaen. Ar y funud, dwi ddim yn ymwybodol eu bod nhw'n datblygu deddfwriaeth, ond efallai fy mod i'n anghywir ar hynny. Byddwn i'n hoffi cael eglurder o ran hynny. Ond un peth, yn amlwg, sydd gan Sbaen, a nifer o wledydd lle mae diwylliant yn gryfach, ydy strategaeth ddiwylliant, lle mae'n glir beth yw ymrwymiad y Llywodraeth. Ydy eich galwad chi'n adlewyrchu'r ffaith does gennym ni ddim strategaeth ddiwylliant iawn yma yng Nghymru a'ch bod chi'n trio gorfodi'r Llywodraeth i fod yn gwneud hyn fel isafswm, yn hytrach na'n bod ni'n gweld y Llywodraeth yn gwneud yr hyn y dylai hi fod yn ei wneud, sydd gan wledydd eraill? Mae gennym ni blaenoriaethau diwylliant, ond nid strategaeth mohonynt—mae hynny'n glir o randdeiliaid. Felly, gaf i ofyn i chi beth ydy'ch barn chi o ran sut mae hyn yn cyd-fynd â'r angen, os ydym ni'n edrych ar wledydd fel Sbaen, am strategaeth o'i gymharu â deddfwriaeth, ac onid oes angen strategaeth ar ddeddfwriaeth beth bynnag, hefyd? Dydy o ddim yn naill neu'r llall.
Thank you. Just out of interest—you've referred a lot to Spain. At the moment, I'm not aware that they have legislation being developed on this, but perhaps I am wrong on that point. I would like some clarity on that. But, clearly, something that Spain, and a number of other countries where culture is in a stronger position, have is a culture strategy, where it's clear what the Government's commitment is. Does your call for legislation reflect the fact that we don't have a proper culture strategy here in Wales, and you're trying to compel the Government to be doing this as a minimum, rather than that we're seeing the Government doing what it should be doing, like other nations? We have priorities for culture, but they're not a culture strategy—that's clear from stakeholders. So, may I ask you what your view is in terms of how this aligns with the need, if we look at nations such as Spain, for a strategy as compared to legislation, and isn't there a need for a strategy with legislation anyway? It's not an either/or.
Yes, the—[Interruption.]
Y comisiynydd.
The commissioner.
Sorry, I jumped in there. I guess where I'm coming from with this is that we've got to look at different things. We've seen challenges in the cultural sector in particular, I would argue, over the last 10 or 15 years, which are leading to what we're seeing in terms of the indicators and what we're seeing in terms of services and what we're seeing in terms of the sector itself and what it says. So, what we're looking at is that we can't carry on like this, because we won't be safeguarding our culture and arts for future generations. So, what else can we do that can be helpful in terms of long-term direction for culture?
I think, whilst we were waiting for the priorities for culture, we did see many significant cuts to the cultural sector. So, having a clear direction within legislation and a sense of what we need to continue to do to support our citizens to access culture—who would have known if it would have helped with that, but we wouldn't have had that gap in terms of direction for culture in Wales.
Can I ask a follow-up on that, if I may, just in terms of that we do have legislation in the future generations Act, and it is one of the goals there, so why do you think we've come to this position that, despite having this Act, we've seen these cuts and a need to look at further ways? Is something not working in terms of how the future generations Act is being implemented, then, by Welsh Government and regarded when it comes to budgets?
I could go on to this, absolutely. The Equality and Social Justice Committee, as you know, is looking at the well-being of future generations Act. I think there's clearly a need to update the future generations Act and strengthen it after 10 years of learning, and there are all sorts of suggestions that I can go into about how that can be done.
One of the key recommendations that I made to the ESJ committee on Monday was this need to have a much clearer framework for public bodies about what they should be doing with their well-being objectives. So, this is not a template of, 'You pick from 10 and you need to have five', but it is saying, 'We need to see timelines. We need to see resources. We need to see how these are going to deliver on our seven well-being goals and our indicators, and that's not always being done'.
There are a number of other ways in which we can strengthen the legislation, and I'm happy to go into that as well. I think that the other point, and it comes a bit back to—. You can do a lot of this without legislation, but if we want to maximise the benefit to our population of our culture and arts, I think that legislation needs to be part of this package. I think that we don't have a clear definition in the legislation of what we mean by culture. There's no reason why the Welsh Government couldn't include that in some statutory guidance to the legislation, if it needs to update its statutory guidance. So, that would be another way of doing that.
At the moment, it doesn't do that, and when you analyse the public body objectives around—. The Act asks our public bodies to maximise their contribution to all of the seven well-being goals—not to stay in their lane, but to think in an integrated way and to understand, when they're delivering their programme of work, how they can also help to achieve other goals. This might be in terms of the foundational economy, but this might be in terms of culture and the arts.
I think that what we're failing to see yet is maximising the contribution that the other public sector organisations, not those ones that lead in culture and arts, can be playing in terms of cultural life in Wales. We can talk later on, perhaps, about all the work that we're trying to do to address that, but we're not there yet, so there's no point pretending that we are.
Diolch. I am going to bring in Jacob, briefly, and then Alun has another question on this.
Very briefly, we have separate pieces of legislation that have been in development in areas that, arguably, could be attributed to areas already covered by the well-being of future generations Act. We have environmental legislation being produced. We have Welsh language legislation being produced.
It would be sensible for us to think about whether there are other pieces of legislation that could be done to complement the well-being of future generations Act, of which this would be one of them. And just to quickly answer the first question from Heledd, there are 146 measures in the Spanish creative rights action plan. One of them is to develop a culture rights Act, in time—so, both a strategy and legislation.
I'm trying to get to what you're arguing over the last half an hour or so, and it appears to me that you're trying to sort of short-circuit politics. The reason that we've had cuts to the arts in Wales is because Gareth's party introduced a catastrophically poor—[Interruption.]—hang on, hang on—policy of austerity. The Welsh Government—[Interruption]. Listen to what I'm saying, Gareth.
The Welsh Government responded to that by prioritising public services, such as health and education. Then, Lee, myself, Mick voted to make those cuts, and at different times, Heledd and Delyth voted to make those cuts in the arts and culture. And so, it was the interaction of politics—of real political decisions—that led to this situation.
You can certainly argue that those were the wrong decisions, and that's a perfectly fair and reasonable argument. But it appears to me that you can't really argue that, in a democratic society, politicians shouldn't be allowed, in some ways, and we should legislate to try to prevent politicians from taking those decisions. Certainly, in Government, I voted along those lines because I wanted to protect the health service.
You might have spoken to a lot of stakeholders, but if you go to Ebbw Vale, let me tell you what they will tell you that the priority for this Government should be. I voted according to those priorities. Whether I'd do it again, I don't know, but certainly, I don't regret voting for that, because that's what I felt was the right thing to do at the time.
Of course politics is involved in this, but politics would be involved in taking forward legislation. You know, as politicians—
But that's not the issue, is it?
Politicians would have to vote for it. I can't implement legislation without you agreeing to it. So, that would be a political choice, of course it would be, in the way that you've described around taking funding decisions and prioritising funding over certain things. I'm not getting away from that. But this could go beyond that. This is defining what we mean by culture.
You can define culture—and I'm not the best at explaining this—by what we provide in terms of what our sector organisations offer, or culture in more broad terms, in terms of how society operates and so forth. And then you can set expectations in a much more clear way about what we can expect of our public bodies—not just the Welsh Government, but others too.
I think there are some win-wins here. Let's not miss those win-wins. Because if we're having expectations beyond the culture and arts organisations, for all of us to have a responsibility for understanding how we support culture and arts in all that we do, and we're looking for those opportunities, then I think we maximise the spending that we have through the public purse, even though it's under pressure.
But I've sat in Government and I've sat here with the people who took those decisions. I don't think those people wanted and looked forward to making those cuts. I can't think of anybody on any side of the Chamber who did that with a smile on their face. Most of the people I work with actually believe in these things and most of these people want to see Welsh cultural life flourishing in a way we see elsewhere. I can't think of anybody—. You listen to our debates on a Wednesday afternoon; it's speech after speech, asking for more spending everywhere.
I listen to all of that, and I'm thinking, 'But you know what, Derek? There's a real-world issue here as well and we've got to take real decisions about a finite budget.' Those decisions will be the subject of the debate we'll have now, up until May—and the people of Wales will take their decision as a consequence of that, and that's how a democracy works. But I can't see anything in what has been said so far that I would necessarily disagree with in terms of the place of culture in our society, but then we have to go into the Chamber and agree a budget. And that budget is a statement of priorities. We've made our statements of priorities over the years with the support of other political parties and without. That has been the reality of the situation Wales finds itself in today. And no number of seminars, quite honestly, will change that reality.
Can I come back?
Yes, please do. Briefly, because we will have to move on after this, I think, because we're very short on time.
I accept this, but I don't accept that this is not real-world. I don't accept that this is not important to the people of Wales.
I didn't say it wasn't important.
This matters to large parts of our population, that we support our culture and arts. We know it's important for well-being, we know it's important for health, we know it's important for—
I think it's intrinsically important. I'm not suggesting it's not important.
Okay. If we just let the witness answer.
I think it's important and I think the people of Wales think it's important, but what you've also heard from witnesses when I've looked at some of the sessions is that what we've got at the moment—. And you could argue that these are political priorities, or this could be also one thing is statutory and the other thing is not statutory so we cut the things that are not statutory. And that's what other witnesses, I know, have told you in previous sessions—people working in the culture sector, but also, people who've worked in local authorities and other areas. If we want decision makers to be looking in the round and looking more broadly at our goals and what we want to achieve, this will help with that. If we want a default position, where we just protect what's statutory and we take the easy option and cut what's not statutory, then—
That's not what we've been doing.
This is what some other public bodies have explained to this committee. It's what they've seen happen in the public sector organisations that they've been working in.
Okay, thank you. Forgive me. I know that there were other witnesses who wanted to come in there, but we will have to move on, I'm afraid. Mick, did you have any remaining?
Just one very short point following on from what Heledd said. Isn't what you're really saying that there's a weakness in the Well-being of Future Generations (Wales) Act 2015 with regard to this, and that's what you want strengthening?
As I said, I think that is one of the ways that you could address some of this. You can't address all of the criteria that we set out as things that could be included in a piece of legislation. That would be a choice. But you can certainly address some of it through the well-being of future generations Act, as I said when I was responding to Heledd.
Okay. Thank you.
Diolch am hwnna. Gwnawn ni fynd at Heledd.
Thank you for that. We'll go to Heledd.
Diolch yn fawr iawn. Roeddwn i jest eisiau ffocysu o ran yr ochr ataliol. Yn amlwg, yn eich adroddiad, rydych chi wedi sôn am bwysigrwydd—a rŵan yn eich ymatebion—beth mae diwylliant yn gallu ei gyfrannu tuag at yr agenda ataliol hefyd. Mae hwn wedi dod yn glir trwy nifer o adroddiadau gennym ni o ran chwaraeon a diwylliant, ond eto dydyn ni ddim wedi gweld go iawn symudiad tuag at hynny, ac mae eich adroddiad chi'n dangos hynny hefyd. Felly, a fuasech chi'n gallu sôn wrthym ni sut rydych chi'n gallu gweld y byddai'r cynnig i neilltuo cyllid ataliol yn gweithio, ac os oes yna unrhyw wledydd rydych chi'n credu sydd yn gwneud hyn yn dda y gallwn ni fod yn dysgu ohonyn nhw?
Thank you very much. I just wanted to focus in terms of the prevention side. Clearly, in your report, you've mentioned the importance—and now in your responses—of what culture can do to contribute towards the preventative agenda. This has become clear in a number of reports from us in terms of sport and culture, but again, we haven't seen a real movement towards that, and your report shows that too. So, could you talk to us about how you would see this proposal to ring-fence prevention funding working? Are there any countries that you think are doing this well and that we could learn from?
There are plenty of examples of this here in Wales, in the UK, and around the world. This is an area that I identified and the auditor general identified, that we need to shift much more of our resources in prevention, and I know that's difficult. But I was disappointed—. As I said, we've just had the Welsh Government responses both to my recommendation and to the auditor general's recommendation, and this is one of the few areas where they've rejected the recommendations. We will go back on that, because I've already spoken to the social justice Minister about some of the responses, and there's a willingness to engage in looking at some of those initial responses.
Ring-fencing prevention funding happens in so many different ways. What we're talking about is a grant funding programme that specifically focuses on prevention, or we might be talking a budget line for an internal service that is about prevention. Or it could be, back when I was working in social enterprise, talking about social impact bonds at Peterborough prison. That's all about prevention, isn't it? So, these are all about having dedicated approaches to focusing on prevention and trying to prevent these budgets being chipped away at, I guess, because we just kick the can down the road.
I've been given an example here. There are so many British examples, but in terms of an international example, in Australia, the Victorian Government has a programme on early intervention in early years, and this is about reducing the demand on acute services. So, this happens right across the piece, and I wonder whether there's been a misunderstanding around the recommendation that we've been making in this regard. It goes back to this issue that we can't carry on seeing prevention budgets being cut. We've got to find different ways of protecting that resource and keeping a focus on prevention activities.
Back a few years ago—and I can perhaps talk a bit more about this in a second—there were definitions of prevention agreed between my office, with my predecessor, and the Welsh Government. A lot of work was done on that as a way of understanding what categories of prevention there are, what budgets were being used for which categories of prevention, and hopefully moving things up the pyramid, or down the pyramid, whichever way you look at it, towards more primary prevention. But that definition hasn't been used. So, we're undertaking a pilot project with a number of public bodies to see how it can be used in very real budget decision making.
Thanks for that. I'm sure we will be very keen to see the Welsh Government's response—
Yes, indeed.
—to both you and the auditor general.
Just in terms of looking at prevention, in terms of the 'how', obviously one of the things you've identified is the need, it's how do we see that shift. You give numerous examples in your report in terms of how we're doing fantastic work here in Wales, but often on a small scale rather than replicated. It can be a bit of a postcode lottery, or grant funding-based, that we don't see things being embedded. I'm thinking specifically in terms of some of your arts and health programmes that you reference in your report. Where do you think that block is? We can see that it's effective, impactful—actually, some of the things you've illustrated save money for budgets in terms of the NHS. What's the block in terms of getting that step change that's needed and how do we overcome that?
I think there are a variety of blocks. This is not easy stuff. One of the blocks that we identified and we're working on specifically is how you apply the definitions that I've just mentioned to budget setting. So, we're working with a number of public bodies, one health board, two local authorities, another national body, and another few local authorities have indicated they're going to be part of this. It's detailed work, it's not easy work to understand which budget line could be falling under which definition of prevention, and whether there are possibilities to move further up towards the primary prevention area, which is the most cost-effective option often.
And so what they're doing is looking at their budget, analysing the budget, looking at where their budget lines fit within those definitions, and then using that to inform their budget decisions. So, with this pilot, we hope to get some learning about whether the definitions are still correct, the tools and so forth to do this process, and then to understand how you would use that information to guide budget decisions. So, some of it's practical, it's tools and expertise and time and resource to understand how you consider these things.
Some of it is not knowing about the good practice that exists, I'm afraid, and so we're lucky, I guess, in this role to have this bird's eye view and work across 56 public bodies. So, a lot of the work that Sandy and colleagues do is about advocating for the good practice examples and encouraging other public bodies to adopt similar ones. We incorporate guidance, of course, in our guidance and tools. We have a self-evaluation process for public bodies to check where they're at; they can see where they are in terms of prevention, and then they're given guidance on what they need to do to get to the next step. So, there's a lot that we're doing, but it's probably fair to say the prevention area is one of the weakest ways of working in terms of implementation, according to our analysis. So, we give it some priority to move things along.
Ocê, diolch yn fawr iawn. Gwnawn ni symud nôl at Alun.
Okay, thank you very much. We'll move back to Alun.
We've been discussing prevention in terms of budgets for years, and I've seen no change at all, if I'm quite honest with you. None at all. That's my experience. So, rather than speak in the abstract, what are the real-world changes that you would want to see, for example, in the budget that Mark Drakeford published two weeks ago?
Well, the specific ask was to identify and to protect those budgets that were having an impact on prevention.
Yes, but what does that mean?
Well, that means using our definitions of prevention to understand which ones are dealing with the day-to-day acute stuff and which ones are having a long-term benefit, and making sure we safeguard those budgets.
I understand the theory. What I'm asking you about is the practice.
It's a specific budget line.
Where do you want the cuts to come in order to pay for investment elsewhere?
Well, we haven't gone into that sort of—
But that's the reality, isn't it? I can sit here and talk about the abstract, and I can talk about it at great length, believe me, right—[Laughter.]—and—
We won't put that to the test right now, Alun. [Laughter.]
That's the easy thing to do, but it's also the cop-out, isn't it? It's the cop-out, because you can come here and give all this evidence that says you should be doing A, B and C, and all this sort of stuff, but you won't come and tell us which budget we cut. So, what's the point?
I don't think that's fair. It's—
Well, give me the example.
There are 50 recommendations in my report about what I want to see prioritised and what I think should be a focus. What this is is a tool for informing decision making. Also, you've said these are political decisions, so this is informing those political decisions so you know which ones are going to have a bigger impact on the long term and which ones are not.
But you're coming here to argue a particular case. The responsibility of making that argument is to make it real as well. You can't just come here and talk to us about the theory of what we should be doing unless you're prepared to get your hands dirty and argue the reality as well, and this is where I find this debate to be totally unsatisfactory, because, yes, we can talk in the theory about prevention. And we do, year after year, I've listened to the speeches. So, what does it mean?
I'm just going to bring in Jacob and also just remind Members that we are here to ask questions about what is in the proposals, as well as what is not—
But this is fundamental to what we're about; it's scrutiny.
But Jacob wanted to come in here as well.
This is scrutiny.
Forgive me, the duty on the commissioner is not to set budgets, it's to instruct and seek from the evidence provided from public bodies on how they've implemented the well-being of future generations Act and to set out how they have illustrated the five ways of working in their budget setting. Finance and budget is one of the seven corporate areas of change articulated in the Act. We fail to see—. We share the frustration from Alun there, that we have failed to see Welsh Government being able to provide on an annual basis—to be able to articulate—how it is seeking to prevent problems from occurring. That's the duty that's on Welsh Government to be able to articulate. It has failed to do so and that's why pilot projects are in place to try and support Government, to advise them on how they can do that better. The duty isn't on the commissioner to have to identify in budget lines where that prevention should be placed, it's on the Government to articulate. And that is a shared frustration, that we have not yet seen that from Government.
[Inaudible.] Why do you expect the Government to be able to do so?
Well, first of all, the Government has access to a lot more information than we have access to and a lot more resources. And I think this is misunderstanding the well-being of future generations Act, if I may, because the well-being of future generations Act—it's a framework legislation, isn't it? It's not there saying, 'You need to do this thing over another', it's for public bodies to take all of the goals and apply the five ways of working into their decision-making process. Then, once you've done that—. What I ask public bodies is to show me how they are doing that to inform the decisions that they then take. It's not for me then to take the decisions, but it's for me to see that this process has been followed and, if I see that the process hasn't been followed—the public, not just me, this is the public, this is legislation that the public were closely involved in putting together—to challenge public bodies to say, 'This doesn't seem to be in line with the well-being of future generations Act— how is this long term, how is this preventative, how is this involving us in that decision-making?' So, it is very much a framework process, it's heavy legislation, as you know.
I understand the legislation, but you were actually talking about preventative spend, which is why I asked you the questions. But it just appears to me that there's a real disconnect here, isn't there, between the theory and the practice. It appears to me that we have long conversations about the theory, which are entirely disconnected from the reality of the decisions that are being taken both by Government and by other public bodies. And it's perhaps—. And I would challenge you, quite honestly, Derek, if you want to make your role a significant shaper of policy, then you need to move beyond simply the theory.
Well, I think I do move beyond the theory. You know, there are 50 recommendations in the report—
But I haven't heard any of what that means in terms of the reality of the decisions we're going to have to take.
Okay, I'll give you an example. It's all in the report and it's—
You say that, but I'm asking you the questions.
So, for example, one of the calls that I've made to public bodies is for all of them to become real living wage employers, accredited employers. Since the call has been made, four of them—some of them had started the process before—have now become real living wage accredited employers. You know, that's 17 out of 56, that's a specific call, because that makes a difference to poverty levels in your communities and right across Wales, and that's a preventative measure, isn't it? Because we're supporting the well-being of the people now, but also for the long term, because we know what endemic poverty levels result in. You can't get much more specific than that. But it's not all about being specific, it's also about—. I'm not the Minister taking these decisions, but the law requires Ministers and public bodies to apply these processes to their decision making to come to better decision making. It doesn't take away the need for judgment and political judgment, of course, it doesn't, and difficult decisions, but it does require these aspects to be considered and not overlooked.
My original question was different to that, but we'll leave it at that. Thank you.
OKay. Diolch. I'm going to bring Gareth in.
I just wanted to pick up on the real living wage accreditation issue, because it was something that we discussed quite significantly in local government. What assessment have you made in terms of some of the downfalls and perhaps the pitfalls of the real living wage accreditation? Those bodies who have signed up to it don't have the necessary obligation to enhance somebody's pay, where that's the right intention, but in reality sometimes that can be counterproductive in the way that it can lead to things like unemployment, particularly with the economic situation we're in currently, with the rise in national insurance contributions and those sorts of things, which many people have quoted within the last 48 hours? Do you see that as a threat sometimes to the employment and the fruition of people being able to excel themselves in that way?
There are certainly challenges with the implementation of the real living wage, but if you speak to some of the public bodies that have implemented it, they talk very positively in terms of the impact it's having on their local economy—Cardiff being one example of a council doing that, RCT is another and Bridgend is another—with the knock-on impact on the economy and the wages of the workforce. Many of our public bodies are already paying the living real living wage to their employees. This is often about the supply chain, and those suppliers that are delivering services for the public sector, who are being asked to pay the real living wage as a result of getting a contract with Government.
But there are also challenges—. The challenge that has been identified with me is also how it can concertina pay levels. So, if you're paying lower, that brings the lower level closer to the one above, and in terms of the responsibilities of that one above, you might need to adjust pay levels further up. Many of them are going through or have gone through a process of realigning pay scales so that they can pay the real living wage. So, you're right to say that it's not an easy process to implement. There are challenges from that implementation. There are certainly costs from that implementation, some of which are being met by Welsh Government, but the overall benefits both to the workforce and the local economy are positive.
Gareth, do you have anything to add?
No, unless it's—[Inaudible.]
No, you have time now if you did have any—
Oh, is it my—?
Okay. I noted in the report you say that culture is in crisis. What do you specifically mean by that?
Well, when we were drawing that conclusion, it was to do with talking in terms of funding for the cultural sector primarily, looking at the statistics and the information we were gathering from public bodies. Some of this stuff is featured in some of the reports of this committee, and I've got them in front of me—a 40 per cent cut to local authority funding for cultural services being one of those areas over the last decade or so.
We were also looking at how Wales compared to the average of European nations, which I think has been shared by this committee. It's disputed by some in Welsh Government, but nonetheless indicates a lower level of spending here. We also looked at things like the 'Wellbeing of Wales' report. You'll know that the 'Wellbeing of Wales' report is the annual assessment of how well or poorly we're doing in Wales against the indicators we've set for ourselves in terms of success. And you can see, in some of those areas that, for example, the participation by children in arts is going backwards. The success that we want to have is not being achieved.
We drew also on our analysis of well-being objectives and plans by public bodies, which showed that culture wasn't being given the priority we think it needs to be given in the legislation. Those combinations of facts and information, and the feedback that we were hearing from public bodies, have led to that conclusion.
But it's not a copy-and-paste job at the same time. Those are the conclusions of this committee. I'm asking, in terms of your office as a commissioner, what led you to the conclusion that culture is in crisis? We've come to that through evidence for things that we've heard as a committee, but how have you come to that conclusion without drawing off other resources in that sense?
Well, just as I said, some of it is drawn from information provided by this committee and others. I have drawn a lot of direct information from public bodies. I speak to the public bodies directly themselves, who have given me some of this information. I don't think your evidence, from the committee, drew on the assessment of well-being indicators and their performance, or in terms of the objectives the public bodies were being set for delivering on the well-being plan. There's a wider range of sources of information that led to that conclusion, not just information from the committee.
All right. But I'm still keen to know how you came to that conclusion yourselves, given the resources that you've got to look into these things. I get that you've got to draw off other evidence and what other people are saying culturally within Wales. I'm not exactly professing that people should be working in silos. But, as a commissioner's office, what resources have you drawn on to come to that conclusion—that culture's in crisis? And what bodies specifically would be the cause? Is it, for example, a cultural body here in Cardiff Bay? Give us an example, as a committee, where you think that that's in crisis.
Okay. Forgive me interrupting, I'm just very aware that we've got three and a half minutes left, and I could see that Sophia wanted to come in.
I didn't realise the time.
Yes, I think Sophia wanted to come in.
Yes, I could come in on that quickly. This is, obviously, post the culture in crisis report, but we've done, obviously, this additional consultation. We were asked to consider this question of where the issues around culture are and, having spoken to stakeholders, both, obviously, arts and culture and heritage organisations, smaller to larger, freelance artists, members of the public, as well as quite a few different people working in local authorities, for instance, I've identified it's not just about funding for cultural institutions. That's a problem, but what people are saying is culture has come to be viewed as a luxury, and poverty and inequality are making it difficult to engage. Many people believe in Wales that, ‘Culture is not for me’, even though when you ask them in more detail, they are very engaged in cultural life. They just don't see it as part of that. Public transport is a barrier to culture. Culture can contribute to prevention, but that's not adequately being explored. So, we have received a lot of qualitative evidence.
And quickly, if I may, what assessment have you made about the Welsh Government's budget proposals, as far as we know now, in terms of tackling that crisis within culture? It has, obviously, been branded as a ‘business as usual’ Welsh Government budget, but how does that look in terms of your assessment of what you've deemed to be a crisis in culture?
Just briefly, if we've only got a few minutes, I'm giving evidence on this, actually, to the Senedd Finance Committee tomorrow, and I think my assessment, on the basis of the information I've got, is if I'm coming to the conclusion that the sector is in crisis, a standstill budget, which is meaning lower budgets if you allow for inflation, is going to not be sufficient to address that crisis.
Okay.
Okay. Thank you. Heledd, did you have one very quick question?
I just wanted to ask this, because, obviously, when you published your report, it coincided with 'Priorities for Culture', but the research has taken place since the publication of 'Priorities for Culture'. Does that suggest that not the strategy, but the document is still not addressing what the sector needs—that there's still a feeling something more is needed?
So, in the final minute.
Yes, I think that has been an important document, in terms of setting some direction with 'Priorities for Culture'. I wasn't engaged in many of the conversations that the Audience Agency undertook for us, but I think the big absence from that is a plan for delivery, isn't it—an implementation plan. It’s all very well to have priorities, but we need to see how that's going to be done. So, that's the gap—the big gap.
Okay> thank you. I know that—. I was going to say amser has been against us today—and it has.
Diolch yn fawr iawn i chi am y dystiolaeth. Dwi'n gwybod yr oedd sawl tro pan oedd Sophia eisiau dod i mewn hefyd a doeddem ni ddim wedi cael cyfle i ddod â chi i mewn. Felly, ymddiheuriadau am hynny, ond rydyn ni wir wedi elwa o'r dystioaleth gan y pedwar ohonoch chi, a Sandy hefyd, wrth gwrs. Diolch yn fawr iawn am bopeth rydych chi wedi'i ddanfon atom ni. Bydd transgript o'r hyn sydd wedi cael ei ddweud yn cael ei ddanfon atoch chi, i chi wirio ei fod e'n gofnod teg. Mae yna hefyd rai meysydd eraill yr oeddem ni eisiau eich cwestiynu chi arnyn nhw. Os yw hi'n iawn, byddwn ni'n danfon y rheini atoch chi yn ysgrifenedig. Diolch yn fawr iawn i chi am y dystiolaeth y bore yma. Rydyn ni wir yn ddiolchgar. Diolch yn fawr iawn i chi.
Thank you very much for the evidence. I know that, on many occasion, Sophia wanted to come in today and we didn't have an opportunity to bring you in. So, apologies for that. But we've really benefited from the evidence from the four of you, and from Sandy, of course. Thank you very much for everything that you've sent us. A transcript of what's been said will be sent to you for checking. There are also some other areas on which we would like to have asked questions. If it's okay, we'll send you those questions in writing. Thank you very much for your evidence this morning. We're very grateful. Thank you.
Diolch yn fawr. Thank you very much.
Diolch, a diolch i Jacob, hefyd.
Aelodau, fe wnawn ni gymryd egwyl fer. Ar gyfer unrhyw un sy'n gwylio, byddwn ni yn fyw eto am 10:40 i gymryd tystiolaeth flynyddol gan Gomisiynydd y Gymraeg. Felly, rydyn ni'n mynd yn breifat tan hynny.
Thank you, and thanks to Jacob, too.
Members, we'll take a short break. For anyone who's watching, we'll be live again at 10:40 to take annual evidence from the Welsh Language Commissioner. So, we go into private session till then.
Gohiriwyd y cyfarfod rhwng 10:30 a 10:41.
The meeting adjourned between 10:30 and 10:41.
Bore da a chroeso nôl. Dŷn ni'n symud at eitem 3, sef gwaith craffu blynyddol ar gyrff hyd braich. Mae gennym ni heddiw sesiwn dystiolaeth gyda Chomisiynydd y Gymraeg. Fe wnaf i ofyn i'r comisiynydd gyflwyno ei hunan ar gyfer y record.
Good morning and welcome back. We move on to item 3, namely the annual scrutiny of arm's-length bodies. Today, we have an evidence session with the Welsh Language Commissioner. I'll ask the commissioner to introduce herself for the record.
Efa Gruffydd Jones, Comisiynydd y Gymraeg.
Efa Gruffydd Jones, Welsh Language Commissioner.
Ac Osian.
And Osian.
Osian Llywelyn, dirprwy Gomisiynydd y Gymraeg.
Osian Llywelyn, deputy Welsh Language Commissioner.
Diolch yn fawr iawn i'r ddau ohonoch chi am fod gyda ni. Mae gennym ni awr a chwarter gyda chi y bore yma, felly dŷn ni'n ddiolchgar iawn am yr amser hynny. Fe wnaf i fynd yn syth mewn i gwestiynau, os yw hynny'n iawn.
Rydych chi nawr yn nhrydedd flwyddyn eich rôl fel comisiynydd. Pa asesiad fyddech chi'n ei roi i ni o'ch gwaith yn y swydd? Yn amlwg, mae yna rai beirniadaethau wedi cael eu rhoi yn y dyddiau diwethaf. Rydym ni'n ymwybodol o rai o'r sialensau sydd wedi bod yn eich wynebu chi. Beth fyddai'ch asesiad chi o fel ydych chi yn y drydedd flwyddyn?
Thank you very much for joining us. We have an hour and a quarter with you this morning, so we're very grateful to you for giving that time. We'll go straight into questions, if that's okay.
You are now in the third year of your role as commissioner. What assessment would you give us of your work in post? Clearly, there are some criticisms that have been made over the past few days. We're aware of some of the challenges that have been facing you. What would your assessment of the position during your third year in office?
Diolch, yn gyntaf, am y cyfle i fod yma gyda chi hefyd. Rydym ni'n edrych ymlaen at eich cwestiynau chi a thrafod ein gwaith ni. Ac ydy, mae bod yn Comisiynydd y Gymraeg yn swydd ddiddorol. Mae gan bawb farn. Mae pobl yn disgwyl i chi weithiau i gyflawni gwyrthiau, ond, yn sicr, beth rydw i wedi trio ei wneud dros y tair blynedd diwethaf yw creu sefydliad gweithgar sy'n edrych ymlaen. Mae'r flwyddyn ddiwethaf wedi bod yn gyfle i ni roi nifer o bethau ar waith sy'n caniatáu i ni wneud hynny am y cyfnod nesaf.
Felly, byddwch chi wedi gweld, gobeithio, ein bod ni wedi cyhoeddi cynllun strategol newydd sy'n gosod tri amcan i'r corff a thair thema arbennig. Mae'r amcanion yn cynnwys cynyddu a gwella ansawdd gwasanaethau sydd ar gael yn Gymraeg, a sicrhau bod gwybodaeth am y gwasanaethau yna ar gael i bobl, cynyddu'n ehangach y cyfleoedd i ddefnyddio'r Gymraeg, ac arwain y gwaith o eiriol dros y Gymraeg gan warchod a hyrwyddo buddiannau siaradwyr.
Wrth gael fy mhenodi—dwi'n cofio bod yn y Senedd yn cyflwyno fy ngweledigaeth dair blynedd yn ôl—fe wnes i'n glir iawn, dwi'n credu, fy mod i am fod yn gomisiynydd cefnogol i sefydliadau, a fy mod i am i bobl wneud y pethau iawn yn y lle cyntaf, yn hytrach na dibynnu ar gŵynion yn unig fel ffordd o wella gwasanaethau Cymraeg i siaradwyr. Felly, rydyn ni wedi gwreiddio yn ystod y flwyddyn ddiwethaf y syniad o gyd-reoleiddio, gan roi mwy o gyfrifoldeb ar gyrff i hunanreoleiddio ac i wneud y peth iawn yn y lle cyntaf.
Fe fyddwch chi hefyd, efallai, yn ymwybodol ein bod ni, oherwydd toriadau ariannol, wedi ailstrwythuro ein staffio dros y flwyddyn ddiwethaf, felly rŷm ni hefyd wedi bod yn rhoi hynny ar waith. Ond dwi'n hyderus ein bod ni yn sefydliad effeithiol wedi ei reoli yn dda, ac sydd â gweledigaeth glir am yr hyn rŷm ni am ei wneud dros y cyfnod nesaf.
Yn sicr, mae datblygu prosiectau am ein tair thema arbennig arbennig yn mynd i fod yn flenoriaeth. O ran y Gymraeg, rydym ni wedi gweld datblygiadau pwysig iawn yn y flwyddyn diwethaf—pasio Bil y Gymraeg ac Addysg (Cymru) 2025. Rydym ni wedi bod yn falch iawn o gyfrannu at y gwaith hwnnw, ac rydym yn edrych ymlaen at weithio i sicrhau bod y cod disgrifio yn cael ei ddatblygu, a bod y safonau sy'n mynd i gael eu hadolygu yn digwydd yn effeithiol.
Felly, dyna gyflwyniad byr, efallai, i'r hyn roeddwn i'n gobeithio ei drafod gyda chi heddiw. Diolch am eich amser a'ch diddordeb.
Thank you, first of all, for the opportunity to be here with you. We look forward to answering your questions and discussing our work. And yes, being Welsh Language Commissioner is an interesting role. Everybody has a view. People expect you to sometimes work miracles, but, certainly, what I've been trying to do over the last three years is to create an organisation that's hard-working and that looks forward. The last year has been an opportunity for us to implement a number of things that enable us to do that for the next period.
So, you will have seen, hopefully, that we have published a new strategic plan that sets three objectives for the organisation, and three specific themes. They include increasing and improving the services available in Welsh, and ensuring that information about those services are available to people, increasing the opportunities to use the Welsh language more broadly, and leading on the advocacy work by protecting and promoting the interests of Welsh speakers.
During my appointment—I remember being in the Senedd presenting my vision three years ago—I made it very clear, I think, that I wanted to be a commissioner that was supportive to organisations. I wanted people to do the right things in the first instance, rather than relying on complaints only as a means of improving Welsh language services for Welsh speakers. So, we have embedded in the last year this idea of co-regulation by placing more responsibilities on organisations to self-regulate and do the right thing in the first place.
You will also, perhaps, be aware that, because of financial cuts, we have restructured our staffing over the last year, so we've also been putting that in place. But I am confident that we are an effective organisation that is managed well and one that has a clear vision for what we want to do over the next period.
Certainly, developing specific projects aligning with our three themes is going to be a priority. In terms of the Welsh language, we've seen important developments in the last year—the passing of the Welsh Language and Education (Wales) Bill 2025. We've been pleased to contribute towards that work, and we're looking forward to working to ensure that the code to describe is being developed, and that the review of the standards happens effectively.
So, that's a short introduction, perhaps, to what I was hoping to discuss with you today. Thank you for your time and interest.
Diolch yn fawr iawn i chi. O ran beth roeddech chi'n ei ddweud o ran cyd-reoleiddio, i ba raddau y byddai'r newidiadau yna wedi bod yn rhywbeth sydd wedi digwydd oherwydd eich gweledigaeth, fel roeddech chi'n dweud am hynny, neu oherwydd tan-gyllido gan y Llywodraeth?
Thank you very much to you. In terms of what you were saying in terms of co-regulation, to what extent would those changes would have been something that would have been made because of your vision, as you were saying, or because of Government underfunding?
Byddwn i'n dweud yn glir iawn ei fod e'n dod o safbwynt egwyddorol. Mae rheoleiddio yn weithgaredd amlochrog. Mae yna sawl elfen i reoleiddio llwyddiannus. Os rŷn ni'n dilyn yr arfer orau gan reoleiddwyr ar draws y byd, mae delio â chwynion yn un rhan, yn rhan bwysig iawn o hynny, ond mae'n un rhan. Fodd bynnag, mae'n deg dweud—ac efallai yr awn ni i fwy o fanylder am hyn yn nes ymlaen—rŷn ni ar hyn o bryd yn rheoleiddio ychydig dros 140 o gyrff, neu fe fyddwn ni. Dros y cyfnod nesaf, fe fyddwn ni'n rheoleiddio 40 yn ychwanegol, wrth i gymdeithasau tai ddod o dan ein cyfundrefn ni. Felly, o reidrwydd, fe fyddwn ni'n symud, ac yn gorfod symud, at reoleiddio ychydig bach yn ôl asesiadau o risg, gan roi mwy o sylw i'r cyrff hynny sy'n tanberfformio. Wn i ddim, Osian, os wyt ti eisiau ychwanegu at hynny. Ond rŷn ni'n dod o safbwynt egwyddorol—y safbwynt o gefnogi, o roi gweithgareddau i gefnogi cydymffurfiaeth ar waith, i rannu arfer dda. Ond, wrth reswm, wrth i'n hadnoddau staffio ni aros yr un peth ac i nifer y cyrff rŷn ni'n eu rheoleiddio gynyddu—ac rŷn ni am wneud y gwaith hynny—fe fyddwn ni'n gorfod cymryd rhai penderfyniadau i wneud pethau mewn ffyrdd ychydig yn wahanol. Ond dwi ddim yn bryderus am hynny o safbwynt canlyniadau ein gwaith rheoleiddio ni.
I would say very clearly that it comes from a principled view. Regulation is a multifaceted activity. There are many elements to successful regulation. If we follow best practice by regulators across the world, dealing with complaints is one part, and it is an important part of that, but it is one part. However, it is fair to say—and perhaps we will go into more detail on this later—we are at the moment regulating a little over 140 bodies, or we will be. Over the next period, we will be regulating an additional 40, as housing associations come under our regime. Therefore, we will necessarily be moving, and will have to move, towards more risk-assessed regulation, giving more attention to those bodies that are underperforming. I do not know, Osian, if you'd want to add to that. But we come from a principled viewpoint—the viewpoint of supporting, putting activities in place to support compliance, sharing good practice. But, of course, as our staffing resources remain the same and the number of organisations that we regulate increase—and we want to do that work—we will have to take some decisions to do things using slightly different means. But I am not concerned about that in terms of the outcomes of our regulatory work.
Diolch. Osian, oedd yna unrhyw beth roeddech chi eisiau ei ychwanegu?
Thank you. Osian, was there anything that you wished to add?
Na. Dwi'n meddwl bod Efa wedi cwmpasu, efallai, yr hyn y buaswn i wedi ei ddweud am y model a'r dull o gyd-reoleiddio, felly does gen i ddim byd i'w ychwanegu o ran hynny. Diolch.
No. I think that Efa has covered everything, perhaps, that I would have said in terms of the model and the joint regulatory approach, so I have nothing to add at the moment. Thank you.
Ocê. Diolch am hwnna. O ran—a dwi'n siŵr y bydd hyn yn codi, achos, yn amlwg, mae hyn wedi bod yn rhywbeth sydd wedi bod yn y wasg dros y dyddiau diwethaf—rhai o'r unigolion a'r mudiadau sydd wedi mynegi siom am fel y mae'r sefyllfa ar hyn o bryd, mae'r cysyniad, neu'r cwestiwn, wedi cael ei ofyn ynglŷn ag a ydy rôl y bomisiynydd yn addas i'r diben. Beth fyddai eich ymateb chi i'r cwestiwn yna?
Okay. Thank you for that. In terms of—and I'm sure that this will come up, because, obviously, it has been in the press over the past few days—some of the individuals and organisations that have expressed their concerns and disappointment in terms of the current situation, the concept or the question has been put about whether the role of the commissioner is fit for purpose. What would your response be to that question?
Yn fy marn i, mae e. Mae Mesur y Gymraeg yn rhoi rôl eang i fi. Mae'n dweud y gallaf i wneud unrhyw beth i hybu a hwyluso defnyddio'r Gymraeg. Mae'n rhestru nifer o bethau y gallaf i eu gwneud. Mae'n egluro sut ydw i fod i fynd ati i reoleiddio. Mae rheoleiddio yn rhan ganolog iawn o'r rôl, a dwi ddim yn rhagweld hynny'n newid o gwbl. Hynny, mewn ffordd, yw asgwrn cefn y sefydliad, os hoffech chi. Ond, yn ogystal â'r asgwrn cefn yna, mae gyda fi dimau o staff ac adrannau sy'n ymwneud â gweithgareddau amrywiol, gwahanol, sy'n ategu'r gwaith hwnnw. Mae'r ffaith, yn fy marn i, fy mod i'n gallu ymwneud â gweithgareddau hyrwyddol yn ogystal â gweithgareddau rheoleiddiol yn gymorth i ni yn ein rôl rheoleiddio. Wrth reswm, mae adnoddau yn gallu cyfyngu ar yr hyn rŷn ni'n ymarferol yn gallu ei wneud. Ond, yn sicr, dwi wedi gwarchod yr adnodd sy'n mynd i'n gwaith rheoleiddio ni yn y cyfnod diwethaf, a dwi ddim yn disgwyl i hynny newid.
In my view, it is. The Welsh language Measure gives me a broad role. It says that I can do anything to promote and facilitate the use of the Welsh language. It lists a number of things that I can do. It explains how I am supposed to go about regulating. Regulating is an essential part of the role, and I do not foresee that changing at all. That, in a way, is the backbone of the organisation, if you like. But, as well as that backbone, I have teams of staff and departments that are involved in various and different activities that support that work. The fact, in my view, that I can be involved in promotional work as well as regulatory activities is of assistance to us in our regulatory role. Of course, resources can restrict what we can do in practice. But, certainly, I have protected the resource that is associated with our regulatory work in this last period, and I do not expect that to change.
Ocê. Diolch am hwnna. Mae Mick eisiau dod i mewn.
Okay. Thank you for that. Mick wants to come in.
What would you say are the things you haven't been able to do because of financial restrictions that you would have wanted to do, and what is the consequence of not being able to do those?
Mae hwnna'n gwestiwn y gallwn ni siarad yn hir amdano fe, i raddau. Dwi wedi pennu tair thema arbennig fel blaenoriaethau—efallai nid i fi fel sefydliad, ond i'r Gymraeg yn gyffredinol—sef meysydd gweithgaredd dwi'n eu gweld yn bwysig o ran datblygiad y Gymraeg yn gyffredinol. Fe wnaf i gymryd efallai'r cyfle i enwi'r rheini: maes iechyd, maes plant a phobl ifanc, a'r gweithle. Felly, ym mhob un o'r meysydd blaenoriaeth hynny, fe allem ni fod yn datblygu rhaglen eang o weithgareddau i gynyddu'r defnydd o'r Gymraeg yn yr ardaloedd hynny, a chael mwy o swyddogion i'n cynorthwyo i wneud y gwaith hwnnw.
Yn absenoldeb hynny, y dull gweithredu dwi wedi'i fabwysiadu yw gweithio gyda phartneriaid eraill ym mhob un o'r meysydd yma. Mae hynny, gobeithio, erbyn hyn, yn datblygu yn dda. Felly, os cymerwn ni'r gweithle fel enghraifft, beth hoffwn i ei weld yw pob gweithle yng Nghymru yn cynyddu eu defnydd mewnol o'r Gymraeg. Tra bod gennym ni safonau sy'n ymwneud â'r mater, dwi am wthio'r peth ymhellach i'r safonau. Mae gen i, o ran adnodd, un aelod o staff sy'n datblygu'r gwaith hwnnw; o gael tîm, fe allem ni weithio'n fwy dwys gyda llawer iawn o sefydliadau. Ond, ar yr un pryd, ŷn ni'n gweithio gyda'r Coleg Cymraeg Cenedlaethol, gyda'r Ganolfan Dysgu Cymraeg Genedlaethol, achos ŷn ni i gyd yn gweithio yn y maes yma. Ond, o gael mwy o adnoddau, wrth gwrs dwi'n teimlo y byddem ni'n gallu mynd yn gynt ac yn gyflymach, yn gallu cefnogi sefydliadau yn well, yn gallu cynnull mwy o bobl at ei gilydd i rannu arfer dda.
That is a question that we could talk about at great length, to some extent. I have set three particular themes as priorities—perhaps not for me as an organisation, but for the Welsh language in general—namely areas of activity that I see as being important for the development of the Welsh language in general. I will take the opportunity, perhaps, to name those: the area of health, children and young people, and the workplace. So, in every one of those priority areas, we could be developing a wide-ranging programme of activities to increase the use of the Welsh language in those areas, and get more officers to support us in doing that work as well.
In the absence of that, the approach that I've adopted is to work with other partners in every one of these areas, and that, hopefully, by now, is developing well. So, if we take the workplace as an example, what I would like to see is every workplace in Wales increasing their internal use of the Welsh language. Whilst we have standards related to this particular matter, I want to push it further than the standards. In terms of resource, I have one member of staff developing that work; if I had a team, we could work more intensively with far more organisations. But, at the same time, we're working with the Coleg Cymraeg Cenedlaethol, with the National Centre for Learning Welsh, because we're all working in this field. But, if we were to have more resources, of course I feel that we could go further and faster, could support organisations better and could bring more people together to share good practice.
Osian. Mae'n flin gen i—sori. Roedd Osian—
Osian. I'm sorry. Osian wanted—
Jest i ychwanegu at hynny, dwi'n meddwl bod yna gryn dipyn o weithgaredd wedi bod o safbwynt y thema ar weithleoedd. Dwi'n meddwl ei bod hi'n deg dweud bod ein ffocws ni wedi bod ar yr elfen yna o gynyddu defnydd o'r Gymraeg o fewn gweithleoedd, boed yn ddefnydd ffurfiol neu anffurfiol, ac mae yna gryn dipyn o waith yn parhau o ran yr agenda yna yn ystod y cyfnod nesaf.
Dwi'n meddwl, efallai, yr hyn sydd wedi dod—nid yn amlwg, achos mi ydym ni wedi bod yn ymwybodol o hyn, ond efallai lle mae angen mwy o sylw dros y cyfnod nesaf ydy'r agenda o ran sut ydym ni'n gweithio gyda sefydliadau i gynllunio gweithluoedd dwyieithog. Mae'r safonau yn mynd rhywfaint o'r ffordd, yn gosod gofynion i asesu sgiliau ac i recriwtio ac i bennu sgiliau iaith mewn hysbysebion swyddi, ond dwi hefyd yn credu bod angen inni gael y drafodaeth a'r sgwrs genedlaethol, yn gweithio gyda phartneriaid, fel mae Efa wedi sôn, y coleg a'r ganolfan dysgu, y Llywodraeth hefyd, o ran yr agenda yna o gynllunio gweithluoedd dwyieithog. Rydym ni'n aml, drwy'r safonau, yn clywed am ddiffyg capasiti. Dwi'n credu bod angen inni weithio gyda sefydliadau a'u herio nhw: i ba raddau y maen nhw'n cynllunio'r gweithluoedd yna yn ddigon strategol er mwyn sicrhau bod gan bobl gyfleoedd i ddefnyddio'r Gymraeg yn y gweithle, ond hefyd bod ganddyn nhw'r capasiti i ddarparu'r gwasanaethau y mae pobl yn disgwyl eu derbyn?
Just to add to that, I think there's been a lot of activity in terms of the workforce theme. I think it's fair to say that our focus has been on that element of increasing the use of the Welsh language in workforces, whether that's formal use or informal use, and quite a lot of work is continuing on that agenda in the next period.
I think, perhaps, what's become—not clear, because we have been aware of this, but perhaps where there is a need for more attention over the next period is the agenda relating to how we work with organisations to plan bilingual workforces. The standards go some of the way in placing requirements to assess skills and to recruit and to determine language skills in job advertisements, but I also think that we need to have that national conversation and discussion, working in partnership, as Efa mentioned, with the coleg and the National Centre for Learning Welsh, and the Government too, in terms of that agenda of planning bilingual workforces. We hear very often, through the standards, about a lack of capacity. I think we need to work with organisations and challenge them: to what extent are they planning those workforces strategically enough to ensure that people have opportunities to use the language in the workplace, but also that they have the capacity to provide the services that people expect to receive?
Diolch.
Diolch.
Thank you.
Ocê, diolch. Ar y pwynt yna roedd Mick wedi'i godi, efallai, o ran—. Yn amlwg, dŷn ni'n edrych tuag at y gyllideb ddrafft a beth fyddai goblygiadau cael cyllideb chwyddiant yn unig. Beth fyddai'r effaith o hynny ar eich gwaith chi, plis?
Okay, thanks. On that point that Mick raised, perhaps—. Clearly, we're looking towards the draft budget and what would be the implications of an inflation-only budget. What would the impact of that be on your work, please?
Iawn. Felly, dros y flwyddyn diwethaf, byddwch chi'n gwybod, mae'n siŵr, ein bod ni wedi derbyn toriad o 5 y cant yn ein cyllideb. Ein ffordd ni o ddelio â hynny oedd cadw dwy swydd yn wag. Ond, yn ystod y flwyddyn diwethaf hefyd, fe wnaethon ni fynd trwy broses ailstrwythuro a chynnig pecynnau ymadawiadau gwirfoddol a diswyddiadau gwirfoddol i'n swyddogion ni. Canlyniad hynny oedd ein bod ni, erbyn diwedd y flwyddyn, yn yr adroddiad blynyddol diwethaf, wedi colli pedwar aelod o staff, neu chwech dros y ddwy flynedd hynny. Dyw hynny ddim wedi bod heb ei heriau. Felly, hynny oedd effaith gwirioneddol peidio â chael unrhyw gyllideb ychwanegol. Ond beth fyddwn i yn ei ddweud yw ein bod ni wedi ymdopi â hynny drwy ailstrwythuro'r sefydliad, wedi gwarchod y gwasanaethau rheng flaen mor bell ag yr oedden ni'n gallu, ac wedi darganfod arbedion hefyd yn ein hystad, ein swyddfeydd, a oedd hefyd wedi rhyddhau swm o dros £100,000 i ni. Felly, dyna'r ffordd ŷn ni wedi delio â'r mater.
O ran cyllideb y flwyddyn i ddod, rŷn ni ar ddeall y byddwn ni'n derbyn codiad o ychydig dros 2 y cant. Fe fydd hynny yn ddigonol, gobeithio, inni gwrdd â chodiadau costau byw ein swyddogion ni, ond dim llawer mwy—wel, dim byd arall mewn gwirionedd—o ran datblygu ein gweithgareddau. Mae'n bwysig iawn i fi, felly, ein bod ni fel sefydliad yn cynllunio'n ofalus. Wrth gwrs, rŷn ni yn y broses nawr o ddatblygu ein cynllun gweithredu ar gyfer y flwyddyn o fis Ebrill ymlaen. Rŷn ni am flaenoriaethu y pethau rŷn ni yn eu gweld bwysicaf.
Mae costau staffio'r sefydliad yn cynrychioli tua 83 y cant o wariant y sefydliad, felly mae'n bwysig iawn i fi ystyried sut gallwn ni ddefnyddio'r adnodd staff yna'n fwyaf effeithiol, gwneud yn siŵr ein bod ni’n cynllunio ein gwaith ni yn synhwyrol, ac yn gosod targedau sy'n clymu nôl i'r gobeithion rŷn ni wedi'u gosod allan yn ein cynllun strategol ni. Ond yr effaith gwirioneddol yw colli adnodd staffio, sydd wedi golygu ein bod ni’n gorfod ad-drefnu ein gwaith rhywfaint, ac ailflaenoriaethu hefyd.
Right. So, over the past year, you will know, I'm sure, that we've received a cut of 5 per cent in our budget. Our way of dealing with that was to retain two empty posts. But, over the past year, we also went through a process of restructuring and offered voluntary exit packages and voluntary redundancies to our officers. The result of that was that, by the end of the year, in our last annual report, we had lost four members of staff, or six over that two-year period. That hasn't been without its challenges. So, that was the real-terms impact of not having any additional funding. But what I would say is that we coped with that by restructuring the organisation, we safeguarded those front-line services as far as possible, and we also found savings in our estate, our offices, which released a sum of over £100,000 to us. So, that's the way that we've dealt with that particular matter.
In terms of the coming year's budget, we understand that we will receive an increase of a little over 2 per cent. That will be sufficient, hopefully, for us to deliver cost-of-living increases for our officers, but not much more—well, nothing more, truth be told—when it comes to developing our activities. So, it is very important to me, therefore, that we, as an organisation, are planning carefully. Of course, we are currently in the process of developing our action plan for the year from April onwards. We want to prioritise those things that we perceive as being most important.
The staffing costs of the organisation represent about 83 per cent of expenditure by the organisation, so it's very important for me to consider how we can use that staff resource most effectively, to ensure that we plan our work sensibly, and that we set targets that tie back to the objectives that we've outlined in our strategic plan. But the real-terms impact is the loss of staffing resource, which has meant that we've had to reorganise our work to some extent, and reprioritise as well.
Diolch am hynny. Yn olaf gennyf fi, cyn i ni symud at gwestiynau gan yr Aelodau eraill, a fyddech chi'n gallu rhoi bach mwy o wybodaeth i ni, plis, am yr ymchwil i mewn i'r ffaith bod carcharorion sy'n siarad Cymraeg yng ngharchar Berwyn, eu bod nhw ddim yn cael defnyddio'r iaith? Maen nhw'n dod lan yn erbyn nifer o heriau gwahanol. Fyddech chi'n gallu ein siarad ni drwy bach o hynny, plis?
Thank you for that. And finally from me, before we move to questions from other Members, could you give us a little more information, please, on the research that found that Welsh-speaking prisoners in HMP Berwyn are prevented from using the language? They come up against a number of different challenges. Could you talk us through that, please?
Felly, mae hwn yn faes sydd o ddiddordeb mawr i fi yn bersonol, fel mae'n digwydd, ond fe wnaeth Comisiynydd y Gymraeg, yn 2017, gyhoeddi adroddiad i sefyllfa siaradwyr Cymraeg mewn carchardai. Mi oedd e'n adroddiad swmpus, gyda nifer fawr o argymhellion. Roedd yr argymhellion yn ymwneud â gofyn i'r gwasanaeth carchardai gasglu data ar siaradwyr Cymraeg, trio lleoli siaradwyr Cymraeg mewn carchardai yng Nghymru—mae hynny, wrth gwrs, yn amhosibl i fenywod—sicrhau bod carcharorion yn gallu cymdeithasu yn Gymraeg, sicrhau eu bod nhw'n cael cyfleoedd i wneud pethau drwy'r Gymraeg, a chasglu data ar staff, ac yn y blaen. Canlyniad hynny, ar ôl cyhoeddi'r adroddiad hwnnw, oedd bod y gwasanaeth carchardai wedi datblygu cynllun iaith newydd. Byddwch chi'n ymwybodol mai dod o dan gyfundrefn cynlluniau iaith y mae'r gwasanaeth carchardai. Mae hynny'n broblem ynddo'i hun, yn fy marn i, ac, ym mis Medi eleni, fe adnewyddwyd y cynllun iaith hwnnw.
Mae'r ymchwil a gyhoeddwyd yn ddiweddar wedi ei seilio ar ymchwil a gynhaliwyd rhwng 2018 a 2022. Serch hynny, dwi ddim yn gwybod ydy'r sefyllfa'n parhau mewn carchardai. Mae'n bosibl iawn ei bod hi. Y cynllun iaith sydd yn ei le, mae wedi'i gytuno gyda ni. O'i weithredu yn gywir, fe ddylai'r sefyllfaoedd sy'n cael eu hamlinellu yn yr adroddiad yna ddim bodoli. Mae'r cynllun iaith yn rhestru pethau synhwyrol y dylai'r gwasanaeth carchardai eu cyflawni. O dan drefn cynlluniau iaith, wrth gwrs, does dim pwerau gorfodi gen i, ond beth dwi yn gallu ei wneud yw cynnal ymchwiliad a rhoi argymhellion. Fel mae'n digwydd, bydd Osian a fi yn cyfarfod rheolwyr carchar y Berwyn brynhawn dydd Llun. Rŷn ni'n edrych ymlaen at y cyfarfod hwnnw. Yn amlwg, fe fyddwn ni yn eu holi nhw beth yw'r dystiolaeth sydd ganddyn nhw am y sefyllfa yn y carchar ar hyn o bryd.
So, this is an area of great interest to me personally, as it happens, but the Welsh Language Commissioner, in 2017, published a report on the situation of Welsh speakers in the prison estate. It was a comprehensive report with a large number of recommendations in it. The recommendations related to asking the prison service to gather data on Welsh speakers, to try to locate Welsh speakers in prisons in Wales—that, of course, is impossible for women—to ensure that prisoners could socialise through the medium of Welsh, to ensure that they had opportunities to undertake activities through the medium of Welsh, and to gather data on staff, and so on. The result of that, after the publication of that report, was that the prison service developed a new language scheme. You'll be aware that the prison service comes under the auspices of Welsh language schemes. That's an issue in and of itself, in my view, and, in September of this year, that language scheme was updated.
The research recently published is based on research undertaken between 2018 and 2022. Despite that, I don't know whether the situation continues in prisons. It's very possible that it does. The language scheme that is in place has been agreed with us. If correctly implemented, the situations outlined in that report shouldn't arise. The language scheme outlines sensible things that the prison service should be delivering. Under the language scheme regime, of course, I have no enforcement powers, but what I can do is to undertake an investigation and provide recommendations. As it happens, Osian and I will be meeting managers at HMP Berwyn on Monday afternoon. We're looking forward to that meeting. Clearly, we will be asking them about the evidence base that they have regarding the situation in the prison at present.
Diolch. Mae gan Gareth gwestiwn atodol, ac wedyn Heledd. Gareth yn gyntaf.
Thank you. Gareth has a supplementary question, then Heledd. Gareth first.
I just want to pick up on the prisons matter and say, well, we seem to be making comments to the suggestion that it's some sort of care facility. Yes, it is in some ways, but these people who are in prison have been punished to be in prison because they've broken the law. We've got to be straight about that and not be apologists for people who have actively broken the law. So, why should we be spending finite resources in terms of promoting the Welsh language to people who frankly don't deserve, in some ways, the gift of having some education? We're dealing with high-category prisoners here in HMP Berwyn, which was delivered by a Conservative Government in the 2010s to occupy the overspill that was happening within your old HMP prisons. So, in that regard, would that be a spend that would be justifiable in the public eye, I should say?
Ocê. A dwi'n deall nad eich rôl chi fel comisiynydd ydy gorfod cyfiawnhau hawliau dynol, ond oes unrhyw beth roeddech chi eisiau'i ddweud mewn ymateb?
Okay. I understand that it's not your role as commissioner to have to justify human rights, but is there something that you want to say in response to that?
Just a response to that, yes.
Ie, jest i ddweud, fy nealltwriaeth i yw: ar yr adeg y gwnaed y penderfyniad i sefydlu carchar yn y Berwyn mai un o'r rhesymau oedd er mwyn sicrhau bod carcharorion o Gymru sy'n siarad Cymraeg yn derbyn gwasanaeth, yn fy marn i, fel y dylen nhw, drwy gyfrwng y Gymraeg.
Yes, just to say that my understanding is that, at the time the decision was made to establish a prison in Berwyn, one of the reasons was to ensure that prisoners from Wales who speak Welsh received services, in my view, as they should, through the medium of Welsh.
Ocê, diolch am hynna. Ar y pwynt yna dwi'n meddwl roedd Mick eisiau dod mewn, ac wedyn mi wnaf i ddod at Heledd ar bwynt bach yn wahanol.
Okay, thank you for that. It's on that point that I think Mick wanted to come in, and then I'll come to Heledd on a slightly different point.
Ar yr un pwynt.
On the same point.
Ar yr un pwynt.
On the same point.
O ran y carchar.
In terms of the prison.
Ie, ond dwi'n meddwl bod Mick eisiau ymateb i beth oedd wedi cael ei godi.
Yes, but I think Mick wanted to respond to what's been raised.
Just to make this point. I remember visiting Berwyn as Counsel General a few years back, and the presentation was very much a positive one, in terms of how they told us about the language. I suppose the concern is that what is being described is actually hostility. Hostility is something different, because that begins to go into a whole other area that is of concern. So, I'm not quite sure how that might fit in, other than that the information that would be available might lead to other actions needing to be looked at.
Mae yna rai pethau wedi'u hamlygu yn y gwaith ymchwil a gyhoeddwyd yn ddiweddar, er enghraifft, fod pobl wedi cael eu hatal rhag siarad Cymraeg gyda'i gilydd. Mae Mesur y Gymraeg yn rhoi pwerau i fi i ymchwilio os yw hynny’n digwydd. Mae hawl gan bobl i siarad Cymraeg â’i gilydd. Mae gen i bwerau i ymchwilio os yw pobl o’r farn nad yw hynny’n digwydd. Ac fe allaf i wneud hynny ar ran carcharorion, yn ogystal ag unrhyw un arall. Felly, dyna fyddai fy safbwynt i ar y mater hwnnw.
There are some things that have been highlighted in the recently published research, for example, that some people have been prevented from speaking Welsh with each other. The Welsh language Measure provides me with powers to look into that if that happens. People have the right to speak Welsh with each other. I have powers to investigate if people are of the view that that isn't happening. And I can do that on behalf of prisoners, as well as anyone else. So, that would be my position on that matter.
Ocê, diolch. Mi wnaf i ddod â Heledd i mewn.
Okay, thank you. I'll bring Heledd in.
Diolch. Os caf i ofyn, yn benodol—? Rydych chi wedi sôn bod gennych chi'r hawl i ymchwilio. Ydych chi'n credu ar y funud fod yna le i chi fod yn ymchwilio? Ac a gaf i ofyn: o ran y pwynt mwyaf o ran y safonau o ran y gwasanaeth carchardai a phrawf, oes yna drafodaethau wedi bod yn sgil yr hyn rydyn ni wedi'i weld yn ddiweddar yma, gyda Llywodraeth Cymru, ynglŷn â phrysuro'r gwaith hwnnw, neu ydy o'n rhywbeth y byddech chi eisiau edrych arno fo os oes yna ymchwiliad neu beidio? Jest i ddeall y statws. Rydych chi'n dweud bod gennych chi'r hawl, ond dwi ddim yn glir os ydych chi am ymchwilio.
Thank you. If I may ask, specifically—? You say that you have the right to investigate. Do you believe at the moment that there is a scope for you now to be investigating? And may I ask: in terms of the point regarding standards and the prison and probation service, have there been discussions as a result of what we've seen recently, with Welsh Government, in terms of accelerating the pace of that work, or is that something that you would want to look at, should there be an investigation or not? Just to understand the status. You say that you've got the right, but I'm not clear whether you will be investigating.
Y sefyllfa yw ein bod ni'n cyfarfod â nhw ddydd Llun. Yn ddibynnol ar y dystiolaeth y byddwn ni’n ei derbyn ac yn dymuno ei chasglu, dyna pryd y byddwn ni’n gwneud penderfyniad am ymchwilio ai peidio. Mae angen i fi ddod i fy nghasgliadau fy hun am hynny. Tra’n derbyn bod yr adroddiad yma ar gael, mae angen i fi roi cyfle iddyn nhw i roi gwybodaeth i fi, a byddwn ni’n ystyried hynny wedyn.
O ran eu statws nhw yn dod o dan safonau’r Gymraeg, fe fyddai hynny’n rhoi pwerau cryfach i fi, o beth tipyn. Fe fyddwch chi yn ymwybodol, efallai, ein bod ni, yn ein galwad maniffesto ni i bleidiau ar gyfer y cyfnod etholiad nesaf, wedi nodi’n glir y byddem ni am i safonau’r Gymraeg gael eu hymestyn i adrannau’r Goron ac adrannau anweinidogol, ac, yn sicr, mi fyddai wedyn gen i bwerau gorfodi. Mae gen i’r pŵer i argymell, ond, ar ddiwedd y dydd, mae’r pwerau sydd o dan Fesur y Gymraeg—ac, wrth gwrs, dyna holl bwrpas Mesur y Gymraeg—yn llawer cryfach na phwerau’r Ddeddf flaenorol.
The situation is that we're meeting with them on Monday. Depending on the evidence that we receive and wish to collect, that's when we will make a decision regarding investigating or not. I need to come to my own conclusions about that. Whilst accepting that this report is available, I need to give them an opportunity to provide me with information, and then we'll consider that.
In terms of their status coming under the Welsh language standards, that would give me much stronger powers. You will be aware, perhaps, that in our manifesto call to parties for the next election period, we have noted clearly that we would want the Welsh language standards to be extended to Crown departments and non-ministerial departments, and then, certainly, I'd have enforcement powers. I have the power to recommend, but, at the end of the day, the powers under the Welsh language Measure—and, of course, that was the whole purpose of the Welsh language Measure—are much stronger than the powers under the previous Act.
Diolch yn fawr iawn am hynna. Diolch, Cadeirydd.
Thank you very much for that. Thank you, Chair.
Diolch. Mi wnawn ni—. Osian, oeddech chi eisiau dod mewn? Na. Ocê. Mi wnawn ni symud at Alun.
Thank you. We will—. Osian, did you want to come in? No. Okay. We'll move on to Alun.
Ie, dwi eisiau mynd yn ôl at y swyddfa, a sut ydych chi’n rheoli’r swyddfa, achos dwi’n credu ei fod yn fater o ddiddordeb cyhoeddus. Dŷch chi wedi esbonio’n barod bod 83 y cant, dywedoch chi, o’r gyllideb yn mynd ar daliadau staff. Dwi’n cymryd eich bod chi wedi cael yr un impact â phobl eraill pan mae’n dod i yswiriant cenedlaethol, er enghraifft. So, oes yna fodd i chi esbonio i ni sut mae hynny wedi cael impact ar eich gallu i wneud gweithgareddau eraill yn y swyddfa?
Yes, I want to go back to the office, and how you manage the office, because I do think it's a matter of public interest. You have explained already that 83 per cent, you said, of your budget goes towards staffing costs. I take it that you have faced the same impact as others when it comes to national insurance, for example. So, could you explain to us how that has had an impact on your ability to undertake other activities in the office?
Mae Llywodraeth Cymru wedi’n digolledu ni am y cynnydd mewn yswiriant gwladol. Beth sydd wedi ein heffeithio ni fwyaf yw’r toriad gwaelodol o 5 y cant yn y cyllid yn y lle cyntaf.
Welsh Government has reimbursed us with regard to the increase in national insurance contributions. What's affected us most is that baseline cut of 5 per cent in funding in the first place.
Ocê.
Okay.
Byddwn i’n dweud—
I would say—
So, sori, jest i gadarnhau, mi wnaethon nhw eich digolledu chi am bob dim.
So, sorry, just to confirm, they reimbursed you for everything.
Am y cynnydd mewn yswiriant gwladol.
For the increase in national insurance.
Yn ei gyfanrwydd.
As a whole.
Do.
Yes.
Ocê. Sori, cariwch ymlaen.
Okay. Sorry, carry on.
Ond, yn amlwg, mae gen i chwe pherson yn llai i wneud fy ngwaith. Does dim osgoi bod hynny yn atal, yn y pendraw, fy nghyflymder i wrth wneud pethau. Mae rhai o'r arbedion wedi cael eu gwneud mewn gwasanaethau cefnogi, a byddwn i'n dadlau bod hynny'n iawn i'w wneud ac yn amserol i'w wneud, ond dwi ddim eisiau gweld erydu pellach ar ein swyddogion sy'n gweithio o ddydd i ddydd gyda'r sefydliadau rydyn ni'n eu rheoleiddio, gyda'r sefydliadau rydyn ni'n cydweithio â nhw. Fel ŷch chi'n gwybod, ŷn ni'n gwneud gwaith gyda'r sector breifat a gydag elusennau. Mae gyda ni hefyd ffwythiant sy'n ymwneud ag enwau lleoedd a rôl sy'n ymwneud â hynny. Felly, mae cwmpas ein gweithgareddau ni, yn fy marn i, yn weddol eang. Fyddwn i ddim am weld lleihad pellach yn y nifer o bobl wych sydd gyda fi i fy helpu i.
But, clearly, I have six fewer people to do my work. There's no way of avoiding that that affects, ultimately, the speed with which I do things. Some savings have been made in support services, and I would argue that it is right to do so and timely, but I don't want to see further erosion in terms of our officials who work on a day-to-day basis with the organisations that we regulate, the organisations we work with. As you know, we do conduct work in the private sector and with charities. We also have a function in relation to place names and a role in that process. So, the scope of our activities is quite broad. I wouldn't want to see a further reduction in the number of people—excellent people—that I have supporting me.
Ond dŷch chi wedi gweld gostyngiad yn barod.
But you have seen a decrease already.
Ydyn.
Yes, we have.
Oes modd ichi roi enghraifft i'r pwyllgor o ba fath o impact mae hynny wedi ei gael ar y swydd, ar y swyddfa?
So, can you give us an example of what kind of impact that has had on the office?
O safbwynt y gwaith rheoleiddio, dwi'n meddwl ei bod hi'n bwysig i danlinellu dyw ein gwaith rheoleiddio ni ddim wedi parhau ar sail status quo. Mae'r cyfrifoldebau yna wedi tyfu dros y blynyddoedd diwethaf. Dŷn ni'n croesawu hynny, wrth gwrs, achos dŷn ni'n credu mai ymestyn y safonau i sectorau a sefydliadau eraill ydy'r peth cywir i'w wneud, efallai am y rhesymau a drafodwyd o ran y carchar yn benodol yn fanna.
Efallai mai un o'r pethau dŷn ni wedi ei wneud yn y cyfnod diwethaf ydy ailedrych ar ein gwaith o fonitro a hyrwyddo cydymffurfiaeth. Roedd Efa'n sôn am symud i fodel sy'n gynyddol yn seiliedig ar risg. Felly, mae'r holl gyrff dŷn ni'n eu rheoleiddio—bron i 140 ohonyn nhw—mae ganddyn nhw gategori risg, ac mae ein gweithgareddau ni yn amrywio yn ddibynnol ar le maen nhw ar y categori risg yna. Dŷn ni eisiau sicrhau bod yr adnoddau sydd gennym ni yn mynd i'r llefydd cywir lle gallwn ni gael y traweffaith fwyaf—os ydy sefydliadau yn dangos eu bod nhw'n cydymffurfio yn uchel, yna mi fydd ein gweithgareddau ni o reidrwydd yn gorfod bod yn llai dwys—a'n bod ni'n ffocysu'n hadnoddau yn y meysydd a sectorau hynny lle efallai fod angen gwelliant ar fyrder.
Felly, un o'r dulliau ymarferol dŷn ni wedi ei gymryd yn ystod y flwyddyn ddiwethaf ydy rolio allan trefn o hunanasesu. Mae hynny'n cynnig gwaelodlin i ni, ac yn rhoi darlun o drosolwg ar le mae sefydliadau arni. Ac, yn amlwg, mi fyddwn ni'n ymateb i hynny ac yn addasu ein dulliau monitro fesul sefydliad a fesul sector yn unol â hynny. Felly, gobeithio efallai fod hwnna'n un enghraifft ymarferol.
In terms of the regulatory work, I think that it's important to underline that our regulatory work hasn't continued on the basis of the status quo. Those responsibilities have grown over the past few years. We welcome that, of course, because we believe that expanding the standards to other sectors and organisations is the right thing to do; we've just discussed prisons, for example.
One of the things that we have done over the past period is to look again at our work of monitoring and promoting compliance. Efa spoke about moving increasingly to a risk-based model. So, all of the bodies that we regulate—there are almost 140 of them—have a risk category associated with them, and our activities vary according to where they are on that risk category. We want to ensure that the resources we have go to the right place, where we can have the greatest impact—if organisations demonstrate that they are complying to a great degree, then our activities, by necessity, will have to be less intensive—and that we focus our resources in the areas and sectors where, perhaps, there is a need for urgent improvement.
So, one of the practical methods that we've applied over the past few years is to roll out a system of self-assessment. That provides a baseline for us and gives us a picture or an overview of where the organisations currently are. And, obviously, we'll respond to that and adapt our monitoring approach according to the organisations' and sector responses. So, I hope that that's one practical example.
Ocê. Wel, mae hynny'n swnio'n synhwyrol, y ffaith eich bod chi'n symud at ffordd o reoleiddio sy'n well, mewn ffordd, trwy reoleiddio ar sail risg ac nid yn y ffordd efallai y mae wedi cael ei wneud yn y gorffennol. Dwi'n fodlon iawn gyda hynny. Ond pa fath o impact ydy'r diswyddiadau yma wedi ei gael ar y swyddfa a'r staff sydd yn dal gyda chi?
Okay. That sounds sensible, the fact that you're moving to a form of regulation that's better, in a way, in regulating according to risk and not, perhaps, in the way that has happened in the past. So, I'm satisfied with that. But what sort of impact have the redundancies had on the office and the staff that you still have?
Wel, dwi'n gobeithio ein bod ni mewn cyfnod nawr sydd â strwythur—. Fe wnaethon ni gyfuno colli swyddogion gydag ailstrwythuro, felly roedd rolau'n newid ar yr un pryd. Felly, o ran yr effaith ar y bobl sydd ar ôl, os mai dyna dy gwestiwn di, dwi'n hyderus bod ein swyddogion ni â swydd-ddisgrifiadau a dyletswyddau penodol a bod gyda ni gynlluniau gwaith sy'n addas i'r nifer o staff sydd gyda ni, sydd wedi cael ei ddisgrifio yn ein cynllun gweithredol ni. Felly, mae gyda ni dri thîm o fewn y sefydliad: y gyfarwyddiaeth rheoleiddio, cyfarwyddiaeth strategol a chyfarwyddiaeth gwasanaethau canolog a llywodraethiant. Felly, mae gweithgaredd y timau hynny wedi ei seilio ar nifer y staff sydd nawr gyda ni. Mae e'n wir ein bod ni wedi colli rhywfaint o arbenigedd wrth i ni golli rhai swyddogion oedd wedi bod gyda ni, a does dim modd osgoi hynny. Ond dwi'n mawr obeithio ein bod ni'n edrych ymlaen yn hyderus i gyfnod newydd. Fel mae'n digwydd, byddaf i'n dod â staff y sefydliad i gyd at ei gilydd yfory yn Aberystwyth. Dwi'n edrych ymlaen at hynny. Bydd hi'n gyfle i ni gynllunio ac edrych ymlaen. Felly, rŷn ni'n dîm sy'n gweithio ar draws Cymru, a dwi yn gobeithio bod pawb yn y sefydliad yn glir am yr hyn rydyn ni am ei wneud ac yn gallu ei wneud gyda'r adnodd sydd gyda ni. Wrth gwrs, bydden ni'n hoffi cael mwy, wrth reswm, ond rydyn ni'n gwneud y gorau gyda beth sydd gyda ni.
Well, I hope that we're in a period now with a structure—. We combined the loss of officials with restructuring, so the roles changed at the same time as that process happened. So, in terms of the impact on the remaining staff members, if that's your question, I'm confident that our officers have the job descriptions and specific functions and we have work plans in place that are appropriate to the number of staff that we have, as outlined in our executive plan. So, we have three teams within the organisation: the regulatory directorate, the strategic directorate and the central services and governance directorate. So, the activities of those teams are based on the number of staff that we currently have. It's true to say that we've lost some expertise as we lost some officers who had been with us, and there's no way of avoiding that. But I very much hope that we are looking forward with confidence to a new period. As it happens, I'll be bringing all of the organisation's staff together tomorrow in Aberystwyth. I look forward to that. It'll be an opportunity for us to plan and to look ahead. So, we are a team that works across Wales, and I hope that everyone in the organisation is clear about what we want to do and can do with the resource that we have. Of course, we'd like to have more, that stands to reason, but we're doing the best with what we have.
Digon teg. Ocê. A pha fath o impact—? Un o'r pethau dwi'n ymwybodol ohono fe yw'r defnydd o wasanaethau sy'n cael eu cynnig trwy gyfrwng y Gymraeg, ac un o amcanion y strategaeth 'Cymraeg 2050' yw cynyddu defnydd o'r Gymraeg a'r defnydd o wasanaethau rydych chi'n eu rheoleiddio trwy gyfrwng y Gymraeg. Pa fath o impact y mae'r mathau yma o doriadau ar y gyllideb yn ei chael ar eich gallu i hyrwyddo defnydd?
Fair enough. Okay. And what sort of impact—? One of the things that I'm aware of is the use of services that are being offered through the medium of Welsh, and one of the objectives of the 'Cymraeg 2050' strategy is to increase the use of the Welsh language and the use of services that you regulate through the medium of Welsh. What sort of impact are these sorts of cuts in funding having on your ability to promote the use of the language?
Mae hynny'n gwestiwn diddorol, oherwydd byddwn i'n dadlau ein bod ni wedi defnyddio cyflwyno'r dull newydd o reoleiddio, a chyflwyno'r strwythur newydd, mewn ffordd sydd wedi rhyddhau mwy o adnodd i wneud y gwaith hyrwyddo yna. Felly, byddwch chi'n gweld yn ein hadroddiad blynyddol ni, er enghraifft, ein bod ni wedi tynnu sefydliadau at ei gilydd i gynnal prosiectau peilot i hyrwyddo'r defnydd o'r Gymraeg. A fydden nhw wedi gwneud hynny ar eu pennau eu hunain? Siŵr o fod ddim, ond fe sefydlon ni brosiect, fe gawson ni 10 corff at ei gilydd. Mae yna dystiolaeth yn yr adroddiad blynyddol o'r cynnydd yn y defnydd o'r gwasanaethau o ganlyniad i'r prosiectau yna. Ac felly, mae gyda ni arferion da i'w rhannu gyda chyrff eraill. Felly, mae hwnna, efallai, yn enghraifft o'r ffordd ragweithiol rŷn ni am hyrwyddo'r defnydd o'r Gymraeg.
Byddwch chi'n gwybod bod hyrwyddo'r defnydd o'r Gymraeg yn flaenoriaeth i fi. Mae popeth yn dda o ran cael y gwasanaethau, ond dwi weithiau yn cael fy meirniadu am fod yn awyddus i bobl ddefnyddio'r gwasanaethau yma, ond, wrth gwrs, dyna'r pwrpas. Mae strategaeth 'Cymraeg 2050' yn dymuno, yn gosod y dyhead i ni ddyblu'r defnydd dyddiol o'r Gymraeg. Wel, sut gallaf i gyfrannu at hynny? Buaswn i'n dadlau mod i'n gallu cyfrannu at hynny drwy sicrhau bod y gwasanaethau sy'n cael eu rheoleiddio gennym ni, yn cael eu defnyddio: ein bod ni'n gweld effaith y safonau yn y maes gofal ac iechyd; ein bod ni'n gweld yr effaith ar fyfyrwyr mewn prifysgolion; fod pobl, wrth iddyn nhw ymwneud â'u cynghorau lleol, yn derbyn y gwasanaethau y dylen nhw eu cael trwy gyfrwng y Gymraeg; pan fyddwch chi'n ffonio i holi am eich bil treth, eich bod chi'n gallu gwneud hynny yn Gymraeg, neu am eich trwydded gyrru. Ac mi ydych chi, ond dyw pawb ddim yn gwybod amdanyn nhw.
Nawr, a fyddwn i'n hoffi cael cyllideb fwy i wneud y gwaith hyrwyddo yna? Yr ateb fyddai 'byddwn', ond dwi eisiau defnyddio'r adnoddau sydd gyda fi yn y ffordd fwyaf synhwyrol sydd gyda fi, a'r ffordd orau dwi'n teimlo dwi'n gallu gwneud hynny yw gweithio gyda'r sefydliadau sydd yn cael eu rheoleiddio gen i, a dwi yn gweld hynny yn dwyn ffrwyth.
Well, that's an interesting question, because I would argue that we've used the introduction of the new regulatory approach, and the introduction of the new structure, in a way that's released more resource to do that promotional work. So, you will see in our annual report, for example, that we've drawn organisations together to undertake pilot projects to promote the use of the Welsh language. Would they have done that on their own? Probably not, but we established a project, we gathered 10 bodies together. There is evidence in the annual report of the increase in the use of the services as a result of those projects. So, we have good practice to share with other bodies as a result. So, perhaps that's an example of the proactive way that we want to promote the use of the Welsh language.
You will know that promotion of the use of the Welsh language is a priority for me. It's all well and good to have the services in place, but I am sometimes criticised for being eager for people to use those services, but, of course, that's the purpose. The 'Cymraeg 2050' strategy sets out the ambition for us to double the daily use of the Welsh language. Well, how can I contribute to that? I would argue that I can contribute to that by ensuring that the services that are regulated by us are used: that we see the impact of the standards in the area of health and care; that we see the impact on students in universities; that, when people think about engaging with their local councils, they use the Welsh language services; when you phone to speak about your tax bill or about your driving licence, that you do that through the medium of Welsh. You can do that, but not everyone knows that those services are available.
Would I like to have a larger budget to do that promotional work? The answer is, of course, yes, I would, but I want to use the resources that I currently have in the most sensible way, and the best way that I feel that I can do that is to work with the organisations that are regulated by me, and we see that bearing fruit.
Efallai, os caf i jest ychwanegu at hynny, mae'n ddrwg gen i. Yn amlwg, mi ydyn ni'n cynnal ymgyrch blynyddol. Bydd yr ymgyrch yna'n cychwyn yn hwyrach y mis yma—yr ymgyrch 'Defnyddia dy Gymraeg'. Mi fyddwn ni'n cynnal cynhadledd yn Wrecsam ddechrau'r wythnos nesaf—eto'n gyfle i ddod â sefydliadau at ei gilydd i adnabod arferion da, yn ogystal â'r arferion hynny mae ein sefydliadau ni'n eu rhoi ar waith i hyrwyddo gwasanaethau.
Un o'r pethau dwi'n credu y gwnaethon ni adlewyrchu arno y llynedd oedd bod gennym ni hefyd rôl i hwyluso'r gwaith yna o ran hyrwyddo gwasanaethau Cymraeg y mae ein sefydliadau ni'n eu rhoi ar waith. Dŷn ni wrthi'n datblygu'r dudalen. Dŷn ni'n gobeithio bydd y dudalen honno'n fyw ar ein gwefan ni, yn gweithio gyda sefydliadau, yn gofyn i sefydliadau: beth yw'r prif wasanaethau Cymraeg dŷch chi'n dymuno i ni fel Comisiynydd y Gymraeg eu hyrwyddo? Bydd y manylion hynny wedyn yn ymddangos ar ein gwefan ni, a dwi'n siŵr y bydd yna raglen o godi ymwybyddiaeth ynghylch y gwasanaethau yna yn dilyn unwaith fydd y dudalen yn fyw. Felly, mae gennym ni rôl, ac mi ydyn ni'n cymryd camau ymarferol ein hunain yn hynny o beth.
Perhaps, if I could just add to that, apologies. Clearly, we have an annual campaign. That will start later this month—the 'Defnyddia dy Gymraeg', use your Welsh, campaign. We'll be holding a conference in Wrexham at the beginning of next week—again, an opportunity to bring organisations together to recognise best practice, as well as those practices that our organisations put in place to promote services.
One of the things that we reflected on last year was that we also had a role to facilitate that work in terms of promoting Welsh language services that organisations have put in place. We are in the process of developing the page. We hope that the page will be live on our website, working with organisations and asking them: what are the main Welsh services that you want us, as the Welsh Language Commissioner, to promote? Those details will then appear on our website, and I'm sure that there will be a programme of raising awareness regarding those services to follow once that page is live. So, we do have a role, and we are taking practical steps ourselves in that regard.
Diolch. Dwi'n fodlon gyda hynny.
Thank you. I'm content with that.
Ocê, diolch. Fe wnawn ni symud at Lee.
Okay, thank you. We'll move to Lee.
Diolch. Five years ago, before you were commissioner, your office was subject to a very serious cyber attack, a ransom attack, for which the Information Commissioner's Office reprimanded the office. How confident are you that that couldn't happen again, and what lessons have you learned that you've shared with other commissioning bodies?
Felly, rŷch chi'n iawn. Beth fuaswn i'n dweud yw, pan wnes i ymuno â'r sefydliad dair blynedd yn ôl, mi oedd effeithiau'r ymosodiad hwnnw yn dal i gael eu teimlo, ac, yn wir, mewn rhai ffyrdd, maen nhw'n parhau i gael eu teimlo. Beth dwi wedi bod yn awyddus iawn i sicrhau, ers i fi gyrraedd, yw bod gyda ni rhaglen sydd yn ymateb i'r holl argymhellion y gwnaeth y sefydliad eu derbyn yn sgil yr ymosodiad hwnnw. Yn ogystal, fe gawsom ni argymhellion gan archwilwyr mewnol. Erbyn hyn, beth sydd gyda ni yn sicr yn ei le yw y gallaf i ddweud ein bod ni wedi mynd drwy'r gwaith o gyflawni'r holl argymhellion yna. Mae gyda ni dystysgrifau cyber-essentials IASME 1 a IASME 2. Mae gyda ni nawr yr holl bolisïau cywir yn eu lle.
O ran cofrestr risg y sefydliad, dyna yw'r risg uchaf rŷn ni'n ei hystyried, a dwi ddim yn gweld hynny yn mynd, a bod yn onest, oherwydd dwi ddim yn meddwl y dylai neb feddwl eu bod nhw'n rhy fach, yn rhy amherthnasol, i beidio cael ymosodiad seiber, a dwi'n meddwl ei fod e'n fygythiad cyffredinol i'r sector gyhoeddus ac i bawb arall.
Felly, o ran beth rŷn ni'n ei wneud, fel y dywedais i, mae cael y tystysgrifau yma yn eu lle yn rhoi sicrwydd i ni. Rŷn ni newydd gael archwiliad mewnol arall ar ein gwytnwch seiber ni; rhai argymhellion, ond mân, byddwn i'n dadlau, pethau y gallwn ni eu rhoi yn eu lle yn weddol fuan o ran diweddaru ambell i bolisi. Mae gyda ni raglen o hyfforddi staff, ac mae'n bwysig bod gyda ni ddiwylliant o 'ddim bai' o fewn y staff o ran adrodd ar weithgareddau. Mae gyda ni raglenni ymarfer bregusrwydd. Mae gyda ni e-byst yn mynd allan i staff ddwy neu dair gwaith y flwyddyn er mwyn profi ymateb swyddogion i ymosodiadau posibl.
O ran rhannu arfer dda, rŷn ni wedi bod yn mynychu'r dyddiau hyfforddiant y mae uned seiber-ddiogelwch Llywodraeth Cymru wedi bod yn eu cynnal ac yn cynnal ymarferion ac ymarferion senario o ran sut i weithredu pe byddai ymosodiad arall. Hefyd, o ran rhannu gwybodaeth, dim ond yr wythnos diwethaf fe ges i fy ffilmio ar gyfer rhaglen neu fideo y bydd Llywodraeth Cymru yn ei rhyddhau o ran sut i ddelio gydag ymosodiad seiber a sut i wneud yn sicr bod y sefydliad yn wydn yn erbyn ymosodiad. Dwi ddim yn credu y gall neb eistedd fan hyn a dweud, gyda sicrwydd 100 y cant, na fydd e'n digwydd, ond dwi'n sicr wedi rhoi blaenoriaeth a phwysigrwydd i'r gwaith o sicrhau ein bod ni wedi paratoi gymaint ag roedden ni'n gallu. Felly, hapus i ddweud mwy, ond—
So, you're right. What I would say is that, when I joined the organisation three years ago, the impacts of that attack were still being felt, and really, in some ways, they're still being felt. What I've been very keen to ensure, since I arrived, is that we have a programme that responded to all the recommendations the organisation received as a result of that attack. We also had recommendations from internal auditors. By now, what we have, certainly, in place, is that I can say that we have gone through the work of implementing all those recommendations. We have cyber-essentials IASME 1 and IASME 2 certificates. We now have all the correct policies in place.
In terms of the organisation's risk register, that's the highest risk that we consider, and I don't see that going away, to be honest, because I don't think that anyone should think that they're too small, too irrelevant, to not have a cyber attack, and I think it is a general threat to the public sector and to everybody else.
So, in terms of what we're doing, as I said, we have these certificates in place that provide us with assurance. We have recently had another internal audit on our cyber robustness, and there were some recommendations, but I would argue that they're very small recommendations in terms of perhaps updating a few policies. We have a staff training programme, and it's important that we have a no-blame culture in terms of staff and reporting of incidents. We have vulnerability practice programmes. We have e-mails that go out to staff twice or three times a year to test their response to potential attacks.
In terms of sharing good practice, we have been attending training days that the Welsh Government cyber security department have been holding, and we have been undertaking scenario exercises in terms of how to act in the case of another attack. And just to share information, only last week I was filmed for a programme or a video that the Welsh Government will be releasing in terms of how to deal with a cyber attack and how to ensure that the organisation is robust in terms of an attack. I don't think anybody here can sit and say with 100 per cent assurance that it won't happen, but certainly I have given importance and a priority to this work of making sure that we have prepared as much as we can to deal with such an attack. I'm happy to say a little bit more, but—
No, thank you. That's a thorough answer. Diolch yn fawr. In terms of digital skills more broadly, clearly it's a challenge for organisations of your size to have all the skills that you need, but clearly they are lacking, and you're not unique in this. You've had some real problems with the case management system, which I guess is as much about procuring and about the ability of the private sector to be able to develop a product that meets your needs. Can I just check: is the system now up and running and functional yet?
Iawn. Os gwnaf i gymryd cam yn ôl, yn amlwg bydd y pwyllgor yn ymwybodol o, efallai, yr hanes rydych chi wedi awgrymu fanna, efallai yr heriau y gwnaethon ni eu hwynebu gyda'r darparwr roedden ni wedi'i gomisiynu a'i gaffael i ddatblygu'r system yma ar ein rhan ni. Dwi'n falch o allu dweud ein bod ni wedi ailagor trafodaethau â'r cwmni hwnnw. Mae yna newidiadau strwythurol a chyfansoddiadol o ran y busnes yna, ac mae'r gwaith datblygu wedi bod yn mynd rhagddo yn ystod y flwyddyn ariannol hon. Mae'r gwaith i gael ei gyflawni erbyn canol mis Mawrth, ac ein bwriad ni yw bod y system yna yn weithredol o ddechrau'r flwyddyn ariannol nesaf.
Yr hyn, efallai, y byddwn ni yn ei bwysleisio ydy, o ran yr holl waith o ailddatblygu'r system, maen nhw wedi cychwyn ar y gwaith o'r newydd i bob pwrpas, ond mae'r gwaith yna i gyd o fewn y gyllideb wreiddiol y gwariwyd arni, felly does yna ddim unrhyw gostau ychwanegol i'r hyn rydym ni eisoes wedi ei wario wrth ailddatblygu'r system dros y naw mis diwethaf. Mae'r berthynas rhyngom ni a'r darparwr yn un iach. Mae swyddogion yn cwrdd â swyddogion y cwmni yn ddyddiol, i bob pwrpas, erbyn hyn—cyfarfodydd byr, ond, yn amlwg, mae'r rheini yn gyfarfodydd gwerth chweil er mwyn sicrhau ein bod ni'n gwneud cynnydd yn unol â'r cynllun. Ond ie, y bwriad yw y bydd y system yna yn weithredol o fis Ebrill, ac rydym ni'n hyderus y bydd y system yna nid yn unig yn hwyluso'n gwaith ni o ymdrin â chwynion, monitro camau gorfodi a chynnal ymchwiliadau, ond hefyd yn sicrhau ein bod ni'n gweithredu mor effeithiol â phosib ac yn cymryd mantais lawn o dechnoleg yn hynny o beth.
Okay. If I take a step back, clearly the committee will be aware of the history you've outlined there, perhaps the challenges that we faced with the provider that we had commissioned and procured to develop this system on our behalf. I'm pleased to be able to say that we've been able to reopen discussions with that company. There have been structural and constitutional changes within that business, and the development work has been under way during this financial year. The work is to be completed by the middle of March, and our intention is that that system will be operational at the beginning of the next financial year.
What I would emphasise, perhaps, is that the work of redeveloping the system, they've started that work anew to all intents and purposes, but all of that work is within the original budget, so there are no additional costs on top of what we've already spent in redeveloping the system over the last nine months. The relationship between us and the provider is a healthy one. Officers meet with officers at the company on a daily basis. They're brief meetings, but clearly they're very important, worthwhile meetings to ensure that we make progress in accordance with the plan. The intention is that the system will be operational from April onwards, and we're confident that the system won't just facilitate our work of dealing with complaints, monitoring enforcement actions and holding investigations, but also will ensure that we operate as effectively and efficiently as possible and take full advantage of technology in that regard.
So, it was due to be introduced in October 2022, but it's still not in place. You're hoping that it'll be in place for the spring, but you can't be certain.
Dŷn ni'n eithaf hyderus ar hyn o bryd. Yn amlwg, rydyn ni ym mis Tachwedd, a lle roedden ni wedi cynllunio bod erbyn mis Tachwedd, dyna lle rydyn ni arni. Mae yna waith hyfforddi staff i ddigwydd ar ddechrau'r flwyddyn galendr, a hynny er mwyn sicrhau ein bod ni mewn lle da i roi'r system yna ar waith ar ddechrau'r flwyddyn ariannol nesaf.
We are relatively confident at the moment. We're in November now, and where we planned to be by November, that's where we currently are. There is staff training work to be undertaken at the beginning of the calendar year, and that's to ensure that we're in a good position to put that system in place at the beginning of the next financial year.
And in terms of the parallel—. The commissioner mentioned the point on cyber, that there had been system support from the Welsh Government and sharing of knowledge. I guess, part of the challenge is that you've decided to create a bespoke software system just for your organisation, which is always where the pain begins. Have the other parts of the Welsh public service ecosystem been able to support you in giving you the skills in how to spec out a procurement and to be a sort of expert or an informed customer, or do you feel like you've been trying to do this yourselves?
Yn amlwg, allaf i ddim siarad o ran y gwaith pwrcasu gwreiddiol. Beth fyddwn i'n ei ddweud yw pan wnaethon ni ddarganfod bod y system ddim yn ateb ein galw ni, cefais i gyngor doeth gan Lywodraeth Cymru a wnaeth ein galluogi ni i wneud yr ailnegodi gyda'r cwmni a'u gorfodi nhw i ailadeiladu'r system o'r dechrau. Mae gyda ni berthynas gyda—dwi wastad yn anghofio'r acronym, ac mae Osian yn mynd i chwerthin—CDPS—
Clearly, I can't speak with regard to the original purchasing work. What I would say is that when we discovered that the system didn't meet our demand, I had wise advice from Welsh Government that enabled us to do the renegotiation with the company and forced them to rebuild the system from the beginning. We have a relationship with—I always forget the acronym, and Osian will laugh at me—CDPS—
Yes, the Centre for Digital Public Services.
Felly, rŷn ni yn ymwneud â nhw. Mae gyda nhw, wrth gwrs, ddiddordeb yn ein gwaith ni hefyd. Felly, dwi'n meddwl y byddwn ni'n gwybod at bwy i fynd am gymorth, ond, yn gyffredinol, allwn ni ddim cael gormod o gefnogaeth na chymorth o ran datblygiadau digidol.
Bydd e ddim yn syndod, efallai, i chi glywed bod diddordeb gyda ni mewn gweld sut allwn ni ddefnyddio deallusrwydd artiffisial i'r dyfodol. Rŷn ni'n arbrofi ar lefel fach gyda hynny ar hyn o bryd, ond mae hwnna eto'n faes lle y byddwn ni'n gwerthfawrogi cael cyngor ac arweiniad.
Therefore, we are involved with them. They, of course, are interested in our work as well. So, I think we'll know who to approach for support now, but I think, in general, we can't have too much support or assistance in terms of digital development.
It would be no surprise to you, perhaps, to hear that we are interested in seeing how we can use artificial intelligence in the future. We are experimenting on a small level with that at the moment, but, again, that is an area where we would appreciate having advice and guidance.
Efallai un peth arall y buaswn i'n ei ychwanegu yw mai un o'r pethau dŷn ni'n ei ystyried ydy sut y gallwn ni fanteisio ar dechnoleg yn ehangach i hwyluso gwaith rheoleiddio ehangach, y tu hwnt i gwynion ac ymchwiliadau. Dŷn ni wedi dechrau cael sgyrsiau gyda rheoleiddwyr eraill yma yng Nghymru i weld sut maen nhw'n defnyddio adnoddau fel Power BI ac yn y blaen i allu dadansoddi ystadegau, dadansoddi data, adnabod tueddiadau, eto gyda golwg ar hwyluso'n gwaith monitro ni. Felly, mae yna lot o drafodaethau'n digwydd gyda sefydliadau cyhoeddus a'r sefydliadau hynny mae Efa wedi cyfeirio atyn nhw.
Perhaps one thing that I would add is that one of the things we've considered is how we can maximise the use of technology more broadly to facilitate that broader regulatory work, beyond complaints and investigations. We've started having conversations with other regulators in Wales to see how they use resources such as Power BI and so on to be able to analyse statistics, analyse data, to identify trends, again with a view to facilitate our monitoring work. So, there are a great many conversations happening with public organisations and those other organisations that Efa referred to.
And how confident are you that, if you were to start from scratch today, you'd be in a better position because of that support to commission a system that was not likely to befall the problems you've had?
Dwi'n meddwl mai fy mhrif safbwynt i yw fy mod i'n cydnabod ei bod yn anodd i sefydliad fel ni gael yr holl sgiliau yn fewnol, ac y byddem ni angen dibynnu ar gyngor allanol, o bosib, i reoli prosiect o'r fath. Felly, mae yna sawl cam lle, pe byddem ni'n dechrau o'r dechrau, byddem ni'n gwerthfawrogi cael cyngor a chymorth.
I think my main view is that I recognise that it's difficult for an organisation like ourselves to have all the skills internally, and that we would need to rely on external advice, perhaps, to manage such a project. So, there are many steps where, if we were to start from the beginning, we would appreciate having support and advice.
Is that advice and support there?
Mae'n anodd iawn i fi ateb hynny. Byddwn i'n gwybod ble i fynd i ofyn.
It's very difficult for me to answer that. I would know where to go and ask.
Okay. I just want to finally ask about your accommodation arrangements. We've heard from Cymdeithas yr Iaith that they see it's a problem that you're sharing offices with the Welsh Government. I don't share that view. You have made changes and there have been knock-on cost consequences to that, but your costs are still higher than you anticipated. Can I be clear how many offices you currently have and what your plans are for them?
Dwi ddim yn meddwl bod ein costau ni'n uwch; rŷn ni wedi gwneud arbedion uwch nag yr oedden ni'n ei ddisgwyl, o fy nealltwriaeth i o'r mater.
I don't believe that our costs are higher; we've made greater savings than we expected. That's my understanding of the matter.
Apologies, I misread that. You're correct, yes.
Na, popeth yn iawn. Ein sefyllfa ni yw bod ein prif swyddfa ni yng Nghaernarfon. Mae tua hanner ein staff ni'n gweithio o'r swyddfa yng Nghaernarfon. Mae gyda ni ardal desgio poeth ar lawr 4 ym Mharc Cathays 2, lle rŷn ni'n rhannu gofod gyda sefydliadau eraill o'r sector gyhoeddus. Tua wyth o staff sy'n defnyddio'r adnodd yna, ac mae gweddill ein staff ni yn weithwyr cartref. Gan ein bod ni wedi gwneud y rhesymoli yna, does dim cynlluniau gyda ni i fynd ymhellach ar hyn o bryd. Wrth gwrs, rŷn ni'n gweithio'n hybrid, fel y rhan fwyaf o'r sector cyhoeddus, ond dwi'n sicr o'r farn ei bod yn fuddiol inni gael gofod lle gall staff ddod at ei gilydd.
Felly, rŷn ni wedi gorffen yr ymarfer yna. Does dim bwriad gyda ni i ailedrych ar hynny ar hyn o bryd. Dwi ddim yn cofio'r dyddiadau, ond fe fydd les swyddfa Caernarfon yn dod i fyny mewn rhai blynyddoedd, felly fe fydd e'n amserol i ystyried a ydy hwnna yn dal yn ffit i bwrpas i ni. Ar hyn o bryd, buaswn i'n dweud ei fod e, gan fod, fel y dywedais i, tua 18 o staff yn defnyddio'r adnodd hwnnw yn rheolaidd.
No, that's completely fine. Our situation is that our main office is in Caernarfon. Around half of our staff work in that Caernarfon office. We have a hot-desking area on floor 4 in Cathays Park 2, where we share a space with other organisations from the public sector. Around eight staff use that resource, and the remainder of our staff are home workers. As we've undertaken that rationalisation, we don't currently have plans to go further at the moment. Of course, we work on a hybrid basis, like the majority of the public sector, but I am certainly of the view that it's beneficial for us to have a space where staff can come together.
So, we've concluded that exercise. We have no intention to look at that again at the moment. I don't remember the specific dates, but the lease for the office in Caernarfon will come up in a few years' time, so it'll be timely to consider whether that is still fit for purpose for us at that time. At the moment, I would say that it is, because, as I said, around 18 of our staff use that resource on a regular basis.
Is there a requirement for them to be in the office for a certain number of weeks?
Ein polisi ni yw bod gyda ni ddyddiau angori, ar un dydd penodol, lle rŷn ni—. Dŷn ni ddim yn gorfodi, ond rŷn ni'n gofyn i swyddogion ddod i mewn gyda'i gilydd ar un dydd o'r wythnos, ac wedyn ar ddydd arall o'u dewis nhw. Felly, hwnna yw'r ddelfryd sydd gyda ni. Mae i weld yn gweithio'n effeithiol. Wrth reswm, mae rhai yn y swyddfa llawer mwy na hynny, ond fel lleiafswm, dyna rŷn ni wedi gofyn i swyddogion i'w wneud, ac ar y cyfan mae i weld yn gweithio ar hyn o bryd.
Our policy is that we have anchor days, on one specific day, where we—. We don't require, but we ask our officers to come in together on one day a week, and then on another day of their choice. So, that's the ideal that we currently have. It appears to be working effectively. Naturally, it stands to reason that some officers are in the office far more often than that, but that's the minimum that we've asked for our officers to do, and on the whole it appears to be working at the moment.
And from a staff welfare point of view, are you able to measure and are you satisfied that people feel that that is sufficient for their well-being?
Mae'n anodd i fi ateb hwnna'n llawn. Beth fuaswn i'n ei ddweud yw ein bod ni'n cynnal arolygon staff, sydd â chanlyniadau da, neu digon da, yn fy marn i. Fy nheimlad i ar hyn o bryd yw bod y balans hwnnw'n iawn. Mae'n rhoi rhywfaint o ymddiriedaeth i staff ddewis y dyddiau maen nhw am ddod ac efallai fydden nhw am gyfarfod â'u timau nhw. Dwi'n teimlo bod dod â phawb at ei gilydd—. Wrth gwrs, mae gyda ni weithwyr cartref lle nad yw hi mor hawdd iddyn nhw wneud hynny, ond rŷn ni hefyd yn eu hannog nhw i ddod at ei gilydd yn eu hardaloedd nhw. Dwi'n gwybod bod staff y gogledd-orllewin yn cyfarfod bob hyn a hyn gyda'i gilydd i ddesgio'n boeth gyda'i gilydd, a'r un fath hefyd ar gyfer staff Aberystwyth. Ac mae dyddiau dod â staff at ei gilydd, fel yr un rŷn ni'n cynnal fory, yn bwysig iawn. Felly, efallai fy mod i'n henffasiwn, ond dwi'n credu yn yr egni sy'n dod a'r creadigrwydd sy'n dod o ddod â phobl at ei gilydd i ddysgu, i rannu syniadau, i gefnogi ei gilydd, a dwi'n cytuno â'r farn ei fod e'n bwysig o ran lles swyddogion.
It's difficult for me to answer that fully. What I would say is that we do conduct staff surveys that have good, or good enough results, in my view. My feeling at the moment is that that balance is right. It gives an element of trust to staff to decide what days they want to come in to the office and meet with their teams, perhaps. I feel that bringing everybody together—. Of course, we have home workers where it's not so easy for them to do so, but we also encourage them to come together in their areas. I know that staff in north-west Wales meet every now and again to hot-desk together, and it's the same for staff in Aberystwyth. And days to bring staff together, like the one we're holding tomorrow, are very important. So, perhaps I'm a bit old-fashioned, but I do believe in the energy and the creativity that come from bringing people together to learn, to share ideas, to support each other, and I agree with the view that it's important in terms of officials' well-being.
Ocê, diolch.
Okay, thank you.
Diolch. Gwnawn ni symud at Heledd.
Thank you. We'll move on to Heledd.
Diolch. Os caf i jest ddilyn i fyny, jest yn sydyn, o ran Caerdydd yn benodol a'r lleoliad hwnnw, yn amlwg un o'r pryderon a godwyd ar y pryd oedd ynglŷn â beth fyddai effaith hynny o ran annibyniaeth neu'r canfyddiad o annibyniaeth. Roedd hwnna yn rhywbeth roeddech chi wedi'i adnabod eich hun fel risg. Sut ydych chi'n cadw hynna o dan adolygiad, i sicrhau, hyd yn oed os nad ydy o'n risg, fod y canfyddiad yna ddim yna a'ch bod chi'n sicr ei fod o ddim yn cael yr effaith negyddol honno?
Thank you. If I could just follow up briefly, just in terms of Cardiff specifically and that location, clearly there were concerns that were raised at the time related to what the impact of that would be in terms of independence or the perception of independence. That's something that you recognised and acknowledged yourself as a risk. How do you keep that under review, to ensure, even if it isn't a risk, that that perception isn't there and that you are sure that it isn't having that negative impact?
Dwi'n derbyn y gall y canfyddiad fod mewn lle. Fodd bynnag, byddwn i'n croesawu unrhyw un i ddod i'n swyddfa ni i weld y drefn sydd gyda ni. Rŷn ni'n gweithio ar y pedwerydd llawr, felly does dim unrhyw swyddog o Lywodraeth Cymru ar y llawr hwnnw. Rŷn ni'n defnyddio'r lifft yn y bore i fynd i'r pedwerydd llawr, ac, wrth gwrs, dyw swyddogion Llywodraeth Cymru chwaith ddim yn y swyddfa, sy'n fater gwahanol—peidiwch â'm dyfynnu i.
I accept that the perception might be in place. However, I would welcome anyone to come to our office to see the way we work there. We work on the fourth floor, so there is no official from Welsh Government on that floor. We use the lift in the morning to get to the fourth floor, and, of course, Welsh Government officials aren't in the office either, which is a different matter—don't quote me on that.
Wel, mae o ar y record. [Chwerthin.]
Well, it's on the record. [Laughter.]
Ond y realiti yw ein bod ni—
But the reality is that—
It's too late now. [Laughter.]
Y realiti yw ein bod ni mewn gofod, dwi o'r farn, sy'n llesol i ni. Rŷn ni reit drws nesaf i'r Comisiwn Democratiaeth a Ffiniau Cymru, felly rŷn ni'n gallu sgwrsio gyda nhw. Mae Cyfoeth Naturiol Cymru o gwmpas y gornel. Maen nhw hefyd yn rheoleiddio Llywodraeth Cymru. Mae'r Asiantaeth Safonau Bwyd yna. Felly, rŷn ni, yn naturiol, yn taro i mewn i rai o'r rheini, a dwi'n meddwl bod siarad â phobl eraill yn y sector cyhoeddus yn beth da a ddim mewn unrhyw ffordd yn effeithio ar fy annibyniaeth i.
Dwi'n gobeithio eich bod chi'n gallu gweld, trwy fy natganiadau i a fy mhenderfyniadau i, nad yw'r ffaith fy mod i wedi fy lleoli yn yr un adeilad â swyddogion Llywodraeth Cymru—a hynny yn bennaf am resymau ymarferol ac ariannol—yn effeithio ar y penderfyniadau a'r datganiadau dwi'n eu gwneud. Ac fe hoffwn i ailadrodd y cynnig i unrhyw un ddod i'n swyddfa ni i weld lle rŷn ni'n gweithio ac i sylweddoli—. Dwi ddim yn siŵr beth yw—. Hynny yw, dwi'n deall pam fod y canfyddiad wedi codi, ond gallaf i ddim bod yn fwy cadarn yn fy marn nad oes sail i'r canfyddiad hwnnw.
The reality is that we are in a space that I think is beneficial to us. We're right next door to the Democracy and Boundary Commission Cymru, so we can discuss with them. Natural Resources Wales is around the corner. They also regulate Welsh Government. The Food Standards Agency is there. So, naturally, we do bump into some of those officials, and I feel that talking to other people in the public sector is a good thing and doesn't in any way affect my independence.
I hope that you can see, through my statements and my decisions, that the fact that I am located in the same building as Welsh Government officials—and that's mainly for practical and financial reasons—doesn't have an impact on the decisions and the statements I make. And I would like to repeat the invitation for anyone to come to our office to see where we work and to realise—. I'm not sure what—. That is, I understand why the perception has arisen, but I can't be more firm in my view that there is no basis to that perception.
Diolch am hynny. Os caf i symud ymlaen at gwynion a chydymffurfiaeth, mater sydd wedi bod yn bwnc llosg yn y cyfryngau heddiw—mae hwn yn gyfle, wrth gwrs, i chi ymateb i rai o heriau Cymdeithas yr Iaith hefyd, ac amryw o bobl eraill sydd wedi mynegi barn y bore yma o ran hynny. Ydy o'n rhywbeth y dylem ni fod yn bryderus amdano fo, ei fod o'n ymddangos rŵan fod mwyafrif o'r cwynion bellach yn cael eu trin tu hwnt i'r gyfundrefn sydd wedi'i hamlinellu yn y Mesur?
Thank you for that. If I can move on to complaints and compliance, a controversial issue in the media today—this is an opportunity, of course, for you to respond to some of the challenges raised by Cymdeithas yr Iaith too, and some others who have expressed a view this morning in that regard. Is it something that we should be concerned about, that it appears now that the majority of the complaints received are dealt with outwith the system outlined in the Measure?
Yr hyn fuaswn i'n dechrau gydag e, drwy ymateb, ydy nodi bod y gwaith yna o ymdrin â chwynion, a chynnal ymchwiliadau lle bo angen gwneud hynny, yn parhau i fod yn rhan ganolog o'n gwaith rheoleiddio ni. Beth fuaswn i'n ei ddweud ydy fod rheoleiddio yn swyddogaeth amlochrog. Dydy rheoleiddio ddim yn golygu gorfodi ynddo'i hun a bod dim byd arall yn ymwneud â'r gwaith. Felly, dwi'n credu bod yna weithiau elfen o ddrysu rhwng beth sy'n cael ei ystyried yn rheoleiddio, gan dderbyn bod gan reoleiddwyr bwerau gorfodi, ac mae cael pwerau gorfodi fel rheoleiddiwr yn arf bwysig i'w gael yn y sefyllfaoedd hynny lle nad ydy rheoleiddiwr yn teimlo bod ganddo fo'r sicrwydd neu'r hyder bod sefydliadau lle mae yna fethiannau yn digwydd yn cymryd camau i adfer y methiannau hynny. Dyna lle mae cynnal ymchwiliadau a gosod camau gorfodi ar ddiwedd proses o'r fath yn talu ar ei ganfed.
Mae yna rai sylwadau wedi bod, onid oes, yn y dyddiau diwethaf ynghylch ystadegau, a chyfeiriad at ostyngiad yn nifer y cwynion dŷn ni'n eu derbyn. Buaswn i'n dadlau efallai fod hynny, i raddau, y tu hwnt i'n rheolaeth uniongyrchol ni. O ran y gostyngiad yn nifer yr ymchwiliadau, dŷn ni'n cydnabod hynny yn yr adroddiad blynyddol. Mae nifer yr ymchwiliadau dŷn ni wedi eu hagor eleni—yn ystod 2024-25, mae'n ddrwg gen i—yn ostyngiad ar y blynyddoedd cynt. Beth fyddwn i yn ei ddweud ydy, os edrychwch chi ar ystadegau eraill, ar faint o ddyfarniadau gorfodi y gwnaethpwyd yn 2023-24, maent yn sylweddol uwch na'r ystadegau yn 2021-22. Felly, mae'n ddarlun cymysg, ac mae yna dueddiadau amrywiol, ac fe fyddwn i'n gochel rhag dod i gasgliadau simplistaidd wrth edrych ar ystadegau moel ynddynt eu hunain.
Dŷn ni, yn yr adroddiad blynyddol, wedi ceisio rhoi rhywfaint o sylwebaeth eleni i egluro efallai rai o'r ffactorau sydd wedi dylanwadu ar yr ystadegau hynny. Dŷn ni hefyd wedi rhoi ychydig yn fwy o gyd-destun yn yr adroddiad blynyddol eleni, neu resymau dros benderfynu peidio ag ymchwilio mewn rhai achosion. A dwi'n credu bod hynny yn ddefnyddiol, oherwydd ei fod o'n rhoi darlun cliriach i chi fel pwyllgor a'r cyhoedd pam ein bod ni wedi gwneud y penderfyniadau hynny.
Os edrychwn ni, efallai, ar rai o'r ystadegau, o'r 60 o gwynion y gwnaethom ni benderfynu peidio â'u hymchwilio, mae 18 o'r rheini—bron i draean—oherwydd nad oedd yna amheuaeth o fethiant ar ran y sefydliad. Rŵan, mae Mesur y Gymraeg (Cymru) 2011 yn gwbl glir mai dim ond lle mae yna amheuaeth o fethiant y gall y comisiynydd gynnal ymchwiliad. Felly, mae yna draean o'r rheina y gallwch chi eu diystyru, i bob pwrpas.
Mae yna nifer sylweddol o gwynion, wedyn, lle mae gennym ni dystiolaeth bod y sefydliad naill ai wedi adfer y methiant ac wedi datrys beth bynnag ydy'r methiant—. Dŷn ni'n derbyn cwynion, efallai, sy'n tynnu ein sylw ni at arwydd sydd yn ddiffygiol o ran y Gymraeg, neu ddeunydd sy'n cael ei arddangos yn gyhoeddus sydd o bosib yn trin y Gymraeg yn llai ffafriol na'r Saesneg. Mae'r rheina yn faterion y gellid eu datrys yn gymharol ddiffwdan ac yn amserol, lle mae'r sefydliad yn dod nôl aton ni ar ddechrau proses gwynion ac yn dweud, 'Rydyn ni'n cadarnhau cyfrifoldeb ac fe allwn ni gadarnhau bod y methiant hwnnw wedi'i adfer.' Rydyn ni hefyd wedi cael ymrwymiad gan sefydliadau eu bod nhw'n cymryd camau i adfer methiannau, ac rydyn ni wedyn yn monitro hynny fel rhan o'n gwaith dydd i ddydd. Felly, mae nifer gymharol uchel o'r 60 yna yn disgyn i'r ddau gategri yna.
I fynd yn ôl at bwrpas cyffredinol camau gorfodi, pwrpas camau gorfodi yw ei gwneud hi'n ofynnol i sefydliad adfer methiant. Mae'n gwestiwn gen i: beth ydy'r budd ychwanegol sydd o ymchwilio i gŵyn a gosod camau gorfodi sy'n gwneud hynny mewn amgylchiadau lle mae'r adferiad hwnnw wedi digwydd?
I fynd yn ôl at y sylw agoriadol wnes i, pan nad oes gennym ni, fel rheoleiddiwr, y sicrwydd yna a'r hyder bod sefydliadau yn cymryd camau, yna mi fyddwn ni'n ymchwilio. Lle bod angen, mi fyddwn ni'n gosod camau gorfodi. Dyna ydy'r ffordd rydyn ni wedi gweithredu yn hanesyddol, a dyna'r ffordd y byddwn ni'n gweithredu wrth symud ymlaen.
What I would start with, in my answer, is to note that that work of dealing with complaints, and holding investigations where there is a need to, continues to be a central part of our regulatory work. What I would say is that regulation is a multifaceted function. Regulation doesn't mean enforcement on its own and that nothing else relates to the work. So, I think sometimes there is an element of confusion with regard to what is considered regulation, accepting that regulators have enforcement powers, and having enforcement powers as a regulator is an important tool to have in those situations where a regulator feels that they don't have the certainty or confidence that an organisation where failures are happening is taking steps to remedy those failures. That is where holding investigations and placing enforcement steps at the end of a process pays off.
There have been some comments in the last few days regarding statistics, and a reference to a reduction in the number of complaints that we receive. I would argue that that perhaps, to some extent, is beyond our direct control. In terms of the reduction in the number of investigations, we acknowledge that in our annual report. The number of investigations that we have opened this year—or during 2024-25, rather—has been a reduction on previous years. What I would say is that, if you look at other statistics, on how many enforcement determinations were made in 2023-24, they're significantly higher than the statistics in 2021-22. So, it's a mixed picture, and there are different trends, and I would be wary of coming to simple conclusions in looking at bare statistics on their own.
In the annual report, we have tried to provide some element of commentary to explain some of the factors that have influenced those statistics. We have also given a bit more context in the annual report this year, or the rationale behind not deciding to investigate in some cases. And I think that is useful, because it provides a clearer picture to you as a committee and the public about why we have made those decisions.
If we look, perhaps, at some of the statistics, of the 60 complaints that we decided not to investigate further, 18 of those—nearly a third of them—were because there was no suspicion of failure in terms of the organisation. Now, the Welsh Language (Wales) Measure 2011 is completely clear that only when there is suspicion of failure can the commissioner hold an investigation. So, a third of those you can put aside, to all intents and purposes.
There is a significant number of complaints, then, where we have evidence that the organisation either has remedied the failure and solved whatever that failure is—. We receive complaints, perhaps, that draw attention to a sign that's deficient in terms of the Welsh language, or material that is publicly exhibited and deals with Welsh less favourably than English. Those are issues that can be solved quite easily and in a timely way, where an organisation comes back to us at the beginning of a complaints process and says, 'We take responsibility and we can confirm that that failure has been remedied.' We have also had a commitment from organisations that they are taking steps to remedy any failures, and then we monitor those steps as part of our day-to-day work. So, a relatively high number of those 60 fall into those two categories.
To go back to the general purpose of enforcement steps, the purpose of enforcement action is to make it a requirement on an organisation to remedy a failure. The question that I have is: what is the additional benefit in investigating a complaint and putting enforcement steps in place that does that in circumstances where that remedy has happened?
To go back to the opening that comment I made, when we do not have, as a regulator, that assurance and that confidence that organisations are taking steps, then we will investigate. Where there is a need to do so, we will put enforcement action in place. That is how we have acted historically, and that is how we will be acting in future.
Diolch am hynny. A gaf i ofyn—? Yn amlwg, mae'r hyn rydych chi'n ei ddweud o ran nifer y cwynion rydych chi'n eu derbyn, dydy hynny ddim o fewn eich rheolaeth chi. Ond sut fyddech chi'n asesu'r ffaith bod yna leihad o ran—. Rydyn ni eisoes newydd drafod pa mor heriol mae hi wedi bod o ran eich cyllideb chi a'r gallu i hyrwyddo pob elfen o'ch gwaith chi. Mae egluro hawliau pobl—. Efallai yr oedd yna fwy o sylw, ar adegau, gennych chi, sydd efallai'n adlewyrchu weithiau pan fyddwch chi yn gweld mwy o gŵynion. Ai'r sefyllfa ydy fod pethau'n gwella, neu a ydych chi'n parhau i weld bod yna—? Rydyn ni wedi sôn yn y gorffennol wrth graffu arnoch chi am y repeat offenders—cynghorau sy'n dod i fyny dro ar ôl tro; yr un rhai rydych chi'n gorfod ymchwilio iddyn nhw, ac ati. A ydych chi yn gweld bod yna sifft o ran hynny? Rydw i jest yn trio deall—. I bawb yma, yng Nghymru, beth fyddan nhw eisiau gweld ydy: ers cael y comisiynydd a'r pwerau hyn, ydy pethau'n gwella, neu a ydy pobl wedi cael llond bol o gwyno oherwydd bod yr un pethau'n dal i ddigwydd dro ar ôl tro, a dydyn ni ddim yn gweld y sifft yna'n digwydd yn ddigonol?
Thank you for that. May I ask—? Clearly, what you are saying in terms of the number of complaints that you have received, that is not within your control. But how would you assess the fact that there has been a decrease in terms of—? We have already discussed how challenging it has been in terms of your budget and funding to promote every part of your work. Explaining people's rights—. Perhaps there was more attention on that, on occasion, which is reflected, perhaps, when you see more complaints. Is the situation improving, or do you still see—? We have mentioned in the past, in scrutinising you, that there are repeat offenders—councils that come up time and time again; they're the same ones that you have to investigate, and so on. Do you see that there is a shift in that regard? I am just trying to understand—. For everyone here in Wales, what they would want to see is: since having the commissioner and having these powers, are things improving, or are people fed up of complaining because the same things happen time and time again, and we are not seeing that shift happening adequately?
Iawn. Os gwnaf i ddechrau, a wedyn fe wnaf i ddod ag Efa i mewn. Rydw i'n meddwl bod yna ffocws, onid oes, wrth drafod gwaith rheoleiddio'r comisiynydd, ar yr ystadegau hynny sy'n ymwneud â niferoedd cwynion, niferoedd yr ymchwiliadau statudol, a nifer y camau gorfodi. Efallai mai'r hyn sy'n cael ei golli weithiau ydy'r dystiolaeth gadarn sydd gennym ni, fel rheoleiddiwr, o ran perfformiad sefydliadau.
Rydyn ni, yn hanesyddol, wedi cyhoeddi adroddiad yn flynyddol sy'n rhoi trosolwg o'r sefyllfa sydd ohoni o ran perfformiad, fesul sector, fesul set o reoliadau. Beth mae'r adroddiad y gwnaethom ni ei gyhoeddi fis Gorffennaf—sydd efallai ychydig yn hwyrach na chyfnod yr adroddiad blynyddol dan sylw—yn dangos yw bod yna gynnydd wedi bod, flwyddyn ar ôl blwyddyn, mewn perthynas â'r naw prif weithgaredd cyflenwi gwasanaeth y mae dyletswydd ar sefydliadau i gydymffurfio â nhw. Mae'r cynnydd yna wedi digwydd flwyddyn ar ôl blwyddyn.
Rydyn ni wedi bod yn edrych ar yr ystadegau o 2021-22 hyd at 2024-25, sef yr un cyfnod, efallai, y mae rhywun yn dadlau bod tueddiadau cwynion yn gostwng. Does dim dwywaith amdani fod yna berthynas rhwng cyfraddau cydymffurfiaeth yn cynyddu ac, efallai, nifer y cwynion yn gostwng. Mi fyddai rhywun yn disgwyl, ac yn gobeithio, i niferoedd cwynion ostwng os ydy perfformiad yn gwella.
Dydw i ddim yn mynd i honni bod y sefyllfa yn berffaith, ac mae yna fethiannau yn parhau i ddigwydd. Fel rydw i'n dweud, pan mae'r methiannau yna yn dod i'r amlwg i ni, a phan nad oes gennym ni'r sicrwydd a'r hyder, yna mae ymchwilio a gosod camau gorfodi, o bosibl, yn gamau cwbl briodol i'w cymryd.
Okay. I will start, and I will then bring Efa in. I think that there is a focus, isn't there, in discussing the regulatory work of the commissioner, on those statistics that relate to the number of complaints, the number of statutory investigations, and the number of enforcement actions. Perhaps what is missed sometimes is the robust evidence that we have, as a regulator, in terms of organisations' performance.
We have historically published an annual report that provides an overview of the current situation in terms of performance, sector by sector. What the report that we published in July—perhaps a little bit later than the period of the annual report that we are looking at—shows is that there has been an increase, year after year, in relation to the nine main activities in service provision where there is a requirement for organisations to comply. That increase has happened year on year.
We have been looking at the statistics from 2021-22 until 2024-25—the same period as some would argue in which the complaints trend has declined. There is no doubt that there is a relation between increased compliance and, perhaps, a decreasing number of complaints. We would expect and hope that complaints reduce if performance is improving.
I am not going to claim that the situation is perfect, and failures are still happening. As I say, when those failures become obvious to us, and we do not have that assurance and confidence, then investigating and using enforcement steps are appropriate steps to take.
Yr unig beth y buaswn i efallai eisiau ei ychwanegu yw fy mod i am gymryd y cyfle yma i annog unrhyw un sy'n teimlo nad ydyn nhw wedi derbyn y gwasanaeth fel y dylen nhw i gysylltu â ni. Yn fuan iawn, fe fyddwn ni'n cyflwyno ffordd haws ar ein gwefan i bobl gyflwyno cwyn, er mwyn ei gwneud hi'n fwy hwylus i bobl wneud hynny.
Mae mater cwynion ac ymchwiliadau yn broses swmpus, wrth reswm, a byddwn ni am hwyluso'r sefyllfa i bobl sydd am gyflwyno cwynion i ni, ac fe fyddwn ni yn edrych ar bob un. Dydw i ddim yn siŵr o'r dyddiad, ond, cyn bo hir, fe fydd gyda ni adran newydd gyda'r nod o'i gwneud hi'n hwylusach i bobl gysylltu â ni.
The only thing that I would want to add is that I would take this opportunity to encourage anybody who feels that they have not received the services that they should to contact us. Very soon, we will be introducing a better way, on our website, for people to submit complaints, to make it easier for people to do just that.
The matter of complaints and investigations is a very comprehensive process, and we would want to facilitate the situation for anybody who wants to submit a complaint. We will be looking at every single complaint. I am not sure of the date, but very soon, we will have a new section on the website with the aim of making it easier for people to contact us.
Os gallwch chi ddweud wrthym ni pan fydd hynny wedi digwydd, byddem ni'n ddiolchgar. Diolch.
If you could let us know when that happens, we would be grateful. Thank you.
Ie. Diolch. Dwi'n credu mai un o'r pethau ydy—. Yn amlwg, dwi ddim eisiau mynd mewn i esiamplau penodol fan hyn, ond yn amlwg un o'r rhai sydd wedi'i amlygu gan Gymdeithas yr Iaith yw gwersi nofio yn Wrecsam—rhywbeth sydd wedi bod yn fater ymchwiliad yn y gorffennol ac sydd, o beth dwi'n deall, yn parhau i fod yn ddiffyg. Felly, mae'r hawl, a bod yn glir beth ydy hawliau pobl, yn rhywbeth sydd yn dod i fyny dro ar ôl tro mewn gwaith achos gyda ni hefyd.
Yes. Thank you. I don't want to go into specific examples here, but, clearly, one of the examples that's been highlighted by Cymdeithas yr Iaith is swimming lessons in Wrexham. Of course, that has been subject to an investigation in the past and, from what I understand, it continues to be deficient. So, the right itself, and being clear about what people's rights are, is something that comes up time after time.
Buaswn i'n clymu hwnna'n ôl i'r gwaith roedd Osian yn sôn amdano fe ar y dechrau, sef ein bod ni am amlygu beth sydd ar gael a beth ddylai pobl ei ddisgwyl. Mae hynny'n gyfrifoldeb ar y sefydliadau hefyd. Felly, mae yna gylch, onid oes e?
And I would tie that back to the work that Osian mentioned at the beginning, namely that we want to highlight what is available and what people should expect. That is a responsibility on the organisations as well. So, yes, there is a circle of responsibility here, isn't there?
Oes, yn sicr. Os caf i droi at safonau'r Gymraeg, felly, yn eich maniffesto chi, mi ydych chi'n galw ar Lywodraeth nesaf Cymru i gynnwys sectorau pwysig sydd heb eu henwi yn y Mesur. Felly, gaf i ofyn am drosolwg o ba sectorau ydy'r rheini'n benodol?
Yes, certainly. If I could turn to the Welsh language standards, in your manifesto, you call on the next Welsh Government to include key sectors that are currently not named in the Measure. So, may I ask you for an overview of what sectors those are specifically?
Iawn. Gwych. Dwi'n gobeithio, yn gyntaf, fod yr alwad sydd yn ein maniffesto ni yn eithaf clir. Dwi'n credu efallai fod yna ychydig o ddryswch ynghylch, efallai, pa mor glir rydyn ni wedi bod yn hynny o beth. Mae'r safonau wedi trawsnewid ystod a natur y gwasanaethau Cymraeg sydd ar gael, does dim dwywaith am hynny. Yr hyn rydyn ni wedi'i brofi yn ystod y blynyddoedd diwethaf ydy gostyngiad. Lle rydyn ni wedi gweld cynnydd o ran cyfraddau cydymffurfiaeth pan fo'n dod at safonau, rydyn ni wedi gweld gostyngiad, ac mae yna dueddiad cyson yn hynny o beth o ran cydymffurfiaeth â dyletswyddau o dan y Ddeddf.
Mae yna nifer o gyrff pwysig sydd yn darparu gwasanaethau cyhoeddus pwysig i ddinasyddion Cymru yn parhau i ddod o dan gyfundrefn cynlluniau iaith, a'r hyn rydyn ni'n gofyn amdano yw ymestyn y safonau i'r sectorau a'r sefydliadau hynny, yr adrannau gweinidogol. Dwi'n meddwl yn benodol am adrannau fel yr Adran Gwaith a Phensiynau, a Swyddfa'r Cabinet, sydd yn gyfrifol am wefan gov.uk, sydd eto'n bwynt canolog i ddefnyddwyr. Mi fyddai, yn yr achos hynny, angen cydsyniad yr Ysgrifennydd Gwladol er mwyn galluogi Gweinidogion Cymru i ddod â rheoliadau o ran y cyrff yna.
Rydyn ni hefyd yn awyddus i ymestyn y safonau i adrannau anweinidogol—sefydliadau fel y gwasanaeth carchardai, y gwnaethon ni gyffwrdd arno'n gynharach, Cyllid a Thollau Ei Fawrhydi a'r DVLA. Mae'r math yna o adrannau eto yn wasanaethau rydyn ni i gyd yn eu defnyddio o ddydd i ddydd. Mae yna waith sylweddol i'w wneud, dwi'n credu. Mae'r broses gydsynio yn un sydd ddim wedi'i dilyn hyd yma, felly mae hynny'n fater i Lywodraeth nesaf Cymru, dwi'n tybio. Ond, yn sicr, mae hynny'n flaenoriaeth i ni.
Rydyn ni hefyd, yn y maniffesto, wedi gofyn i Lywodraeth nesaf Cymru gyhoeddi rhaglen, fel rhan o'r rhaglen ddeddfwriaethol, am wn i, ar gyfer cyflwyno rheoliadau ar gyfer y sectorau eraill sydd yn weddill o fewn darpariaethau Mesur y Gymraeg, fel y mae'n sefyll ar hyn o bryd. Mae'r rheini'n ymwneud yn bennaf â'r sector preifat a'r cyfleustodau ac yn y blaen. Felly, dwi'n meddwl bod ein galwadau ni a'n dyheadau ni o ran ymestyn y safonau yn eithaf clir yn hynny o beth.
Right. Excellent. I hope, first of all, that the call in our manifesto is clear. I think that there was some confusion with regard to how clear we have been in that regard. The standards have transformed the range and nature of the Welsh language services available, there's no doubt about that. What we have experienced over recent years is a decrease. Where we've seen an increase in compliance when it comes to standards, we've seen a decrease, and there is a consistent tendency in terms of the compliance with duties under the Act.
A number of important bodies that provide important public services to citizens in Wales continue to come under the language schemes regime, and what we've asked for is the extension of the standards to those bodies and sectors, including ministerial departments. I'm thinking specifically about departments such as the Department for Work and Pensions, and the Cabinet Office, which is responsible for the gov.uk website, which, again, is a central point for consumers and website users. In that particular case, we would need the consent of the Secretary of State to enable Welsh Ministers to bring forward regulations relating to those particular bodies.
We're also eager to extend the standards to non-ministerial departments, such as the prison service, which we touched on earlier, HM Revenue and Customs, and the DVLA. These departments provide services that we all use on a daily basis. There is significant work to be done. The consent process is one that hasn't been followed yet, so that's an issue for the next Welsh Government, I would sense. But, certainly, that is a priority for us.
We've also, in the manifesto, asked the next Welsh Government to publish a programme, as part of the legislative programme, I suppose, for the introduction of regulations for those other sectors that remain within the Welsh language Measure provisions, as they currently stand. Those primarily relate to the private sector and the utilities, and so on. So, I think that our calls and our aspirations in terms of extending the standards are clear in that regard.
Diolch. Yn amlwg, rydych chi'n gwneud y cysylltiad yn y maniffesto rhwng yr angen ac adnodd hefyd. Gaf i jest ofyn yn benodol o ran y graddau rydych chi'n cytuno â dull gweithredu Ysgrifennydd y Cabinet o ran cyflwyno dyletswyddau iaith Gymraeg ar ddarparwyr trafnidiaeth gyhoeddus, a pha waith rydych chi'n ei wneud o ran paratoi at hynny?
Thank you. Clearly, you make the connection in the manifesto between the need and resources as well. Could I just ask specifically about the extent to which you agree with the approach of the Cabinet Secretary in terms of the introduction of Welsh language duties on public transport providers, and what work are you doing to prepare for this?
Iawn. Dwi'n meddwl ei bod hi'n bwysig i nodi bod un o ddarparwyr trafnidiaeth gyhoeddus fwyaf Cymru eisoes o dan y safonau, a hynny oherwydd y berthynas rhwng Trafnidiaeth Cymru a Llywodraeth Cymru. Felly, mae Trafnidiaeth Cymru eisoes o dan ein fframwaith rheoleiddio ni, a byddwch chi'n ymwybodol, efallai, o'r cwynion a'r materion sy'n codi gyda'r corff hwnnw. Felly, maen nhw eisoes o dan y safonau. Ein dealltwriaeth ni ydy, os a phan ddaw rheoliadau ar gyfer darparwyr trafnidiaeth gyhoeddus, y bydd y berthynas rhwng Trafnidiaeth Cymru a'r Llywodraeth yn cael ei ymwahanu, ac mi fydd angen inni reoleiddio'r corff hwnnw'n annibynnol. Mi fydd yna ddyletswyddau penodol wedi'u gosod arnyn nhw, yn ogystal â darparwyr trafnidiaeth gyhoeddus eraill.
Dwi’n meddwl mai'r her i’r Llywodraeth wrth gyflwyno’r rheoliadau newydd ydy sicrhau, o ran unrhyw ofynion sydd ar Drafnidiaeth Cymru ar hyn o bryd, nad oes gostyngiad yn hynny. Felly, mae angen inni fod yn effro i hynny wrth i reoliadau gael eu datblygu. Dwi’n ymwybodol bod yna ddatblygiadau yn San Steffan o ran cyflwyno Bil yn ymwneud â Great British Railways. Dwi ddim yn gyfarwydd â'r holl fanylion, ond, yn amlwg, mae hynny'n rhan o'r darlun o ran y ffordd mae trafnidiaeth gyhoeddus yn cael ei strwythuro yma yng Nghymru. Felly, mi fydd angen i'r gwaith o ddatblygu rheoliadau adlewyrchu hynny, am wn i.
I think it's important to note that one of the biggest public transport providers in Wales is subject to standards because of the relationship between Transport for Wales and the Welsh Government. And so, Transport for Wales is already subject to our regulatory framework, and you will be aware, perhaps, of the complaints and the issues that have arisen with that body. So, they're already subject to the standards. Our understanding is that, if and when regulations come in for public transport providers, the relationship between Transport for Wales and the Government will be separated, and we will need to regulate that body independently. There will be specific duties placed on them, as well as on other public transport providers.
I think the challenge for Government in introducing new regulations is to ensure that, as regards the requirements on Transport for Wales currently, that there is not a reduction. So, we need to be alive to that as regulations are developed. I am aware that there are developments in Westminster in terms of introducing the Great British Railways Bill. I am not familiar with all the detail, but, obviously, that is part of the picture in terms of the way public transport is structured here in Wales. So, the work on developing regulations will need to reflect that, I would presume.
Diolch. Mae gan Mick a Gareth gwestiynau atodol. Fe wnaf i fynd at Mick yn gyntaf a wedyn at Gareth.
Thank you. Mick and Gareth have supplementaries, so I'll go to Mick first and then Gareth.
Just in terms of those extended responsibilities, in the light of what you said earlier about resources, do you actually have the resources to do that, or is the ability to do that dependent on additional resources being provided?
Wel, mae hwnna, mewn ffordd, yn gwestiwn anodd i fi ateb oherwydd wrth gwrs fy mod i am reoleiddio'r sectorau yma ac fe wnaf i ffeindio ffordd o wneud hynny. Fodd bynnag, byddwn i'n gallu gwneud hynny'n well gyda mwy o adnoddau. Dyna, efallai, y safbwynt y byddwn i'n ei gymryd. Dwi wedi esbonio'n gynharach sut rŷn ni'n symud at fodel o reoleiddio yn ôl risg. Wel, y mwyaf o sefydliadau rŷch chi'n eu cael, y lleiaf y byddwn ni'n gallu ymwneud â'r problemau is i lawr. Er mwyn rheoleiddio'n gwbl effeithiol, mae angen adnodd mwy. Fodd bynnag, dwi yn awyddus iawn i ymestyn safonau'r Gymraeg ac, felly, mi fyddwn ni'n trio ffeindio ffordd o wneud hynny.
That in a way, is a difficult question for me to answer, because of course I want to regulate these sectors and I will find a way of doing that. However, we could do that better with more resource. That, perhaps, is the stance I would take. I explained earlier how we are moving towards a model of regulation according to risk. Well, the more organisations that you have, the less that you’ll be able to be engaged with the problems lower down the register. To be wholly effective regulators, we need greater resource. However, I am very eager to extend the Welsh language standards, and so we will be seeking ways to do that.
Efallai un pwynt yn ychwanegol y buaswn i’n ei wneud yw ein bod ni'n dechrau dod i gyfnod erbyn hyn, wrth ystyried safonau'r Gymraeg a’r sefydliadau sydd yn mynd i fod yn ddarostyngedig—sefydliadau sydd, efallai, ddim wedi bod yn gweithredu yn unol â dyletswyddau iaith, boed hynny yn gynllun iaith neu fel arall—a bydd yna, byddwn i'n dadlau, wrth feddwl am gymdeithasau tai fel, efallai, y sector amlycaf, o reidrwydd, ychydig o ddal dwylo yn mynd i orfod bod, efallai yn fwy nag sydd wedi gorfod bod yn y gorffennol, wrth gymharu, efallai, ag awdurdodau lleol, prifysgolion a cholegau addysg bellach, sydd wedi hen arfer gweithredu cynlluniau iaith Gymraeg. Mae hynny, wrth gwrs, yn mynd i olygu buddsoddiad o ran adnodd. Fel mae Efa'n dweud, rydyn ni'n gwneud iddo fo weithio, ond, yn amlwg, byddwn ni'n croesawu adnodd.
Perhaps one additional point I would make is that we are starting to reach a period now, in considering the Welsh language standards and the organisations that will be subject to them—organisations, perhaps, that have not been operating according to language duties, under languages schemes or otherwise—where, I would argue, thinking of housing associations, perhaps, as the most prominent sector, there will have to be some hand-holding, more so perhaps than there has been in the past, in terms of local authorities, universities and further education colleges, which are familiar with implementing Welsh language schemes. Of course, that is going to mean investment in terms of resource. As Efa has said, we will make it work, but, obviously, we would welcome resources.
Hoffwn i ymestyn ar hynny mewn ffordd, oherwydd mae'n dod nôl i graidd beth drafodon ni ar ddechrau'r sgwrs. Yng nghyd-destun cymdeithasau tai sydd, fel eglurodd Osian, heb gyfundrefn ym mhob ardal o gynlluniau iaith, rŷn ni wedi cynnal rhaglen ymbaratoi i'r sector yn ôl ein dull ni o gefnogi ac o gyd-reoleiddio, yn y gobaith eu bod nhw'n derbyn cyngor a chefnogaeth cyn y cyfnod mae'r safonau'n cael eu gosod arnyn nhw, er mwyn osgoi problemau ac er mwyn gwneud y gwaith reoleiddio yn haws maes o law. Felly, mae yna sawl techneg ar waith er mwyn datblygu ein gwaith reoleiddio ni yn fwy effeithiol. Byddwn ni'n dadlau bod y gwaith rydym ni wedi'i wneud gyda chymdeithasau tai dros y flwyddyn ddiwethaf, cyn cyflwyno'r safonau arnyn nhw, yn enghraifft o hynny.
I'd like to expand on that, in a way, because it comes back to the heart of what we discussed at the beginning of this session. In the context of housing associations, which, as Osian mentioned, don’t have a system in every aspect of the language schemes, we have undertaken a preparatory programme for the sector in line with our method of co-regulating and supporting, in the hope that they receive advice and support before the period that the standards are imposed on them, in order to avoid problems and to make that regulatory work easier in due course. So, there are several techniques being applied to develop our regulatory work more effectively, and I would argue that the work that we have done with housing associations over the past year, before the introduction of the standards for them, is an example of that.
Ocê. Diolch. Mae'n hamser ni yn eithaf tyn, ond rydyn ni'n awyddus i glywed y cwestiynau sydd gan Gareth.
Okay. Thank you. Our time is quite tight, but we are keen to hear the questions from Gareth.
Diolch, Cadeirydd. Bore da, pawb. I'd just like to focus on the Welsh language within the health system, across the health boards, and analyse any potential regional differences within the health board authorities and how that’s directed. Obviously, we had 'More than just words' back in 2012. How is that going, and are we moving in the right direction generally?
Os yw amser yn fyr, fe wnaf i ofyn i Osian.
If time is brief, I'll ask Osian to respond.
Iawn. Fe fyddwch chi'n ymwybodol fod byrddau iechyd ac ymddiriedolaethau wedi bod yn ddarostyngedig i safonau ers 2019. Rydyn ni wedi’i gwneud hi'n gwbl glir mewn sawl adroddiad bod perfformiad y sector iechyd wedi bod yn is na sectorau eraill, a bod angen symud ar fyrder er mwyn sicrhau cynnydd ac iddyn nhw'n dod at lefelau tebycach i'r sectorau eraill. Mae yna welliant wedi bod, ond eto dwi'n pwysleisio bod yna gryn dipyn o ffordd i fynd gyda'r sector iechyd. Felly, dyna drosolwg o'r sefyllfa o ran y dyletswyddau statudol sydd o fewn ein fframwaith—
Fine,. You will be aware that health boards and trusts have been subject to standards since 2019. We have made it completely clear in a number of reports that the performance of the health sector has been lower than that of other sectors, and that there’s a need to move urgently to ensure progress and that they reach similar levels to those reached by other sectors. There has been progress, but again I emphasise that there is quite a way to go in the health sector. So, that is an overview of the situation in terms of the statutory duties within our framework—
So, what would be an acceptable level in regard to your work and what you would expect health boards to achieve? What would be a reasonable level in that sense?
Fel rheoleiddiwr, ein disgwyliad ni ydy eu bod nhw'n cydymffurfio â'r dyletswyddau, doed a ddel. Hynny yw, dwi ddim yn mynd i roi unrhyw ffigwr. Beth dwi'n ei awgrymu fan hyn ydy, wrth ein gwaith monitro ni, mae'r lefelau yn y sectorau eraill yn llawer uwch o ran cydymffurfiaeth. Felly, y flaenoriaeth i ni—wrth gwrs, rydym ni eisiau ymgyrraedd at 100 y cant o gydymffurfiaeth, achos dyna rydyn ni'n gweithio tuag ato—ond y flaenoriaeth o ran y sector ydy ceisio eu cael nhw at y lefelau hynny rydyn ni'n eu gweld gyda'r sectorau eraill sy'n perfformio orau.
Roeddwn i'n sôn am y dyletswyddau statudol, ac mae'r rheina, wrth gwrs, o fewn ein fframwaith rheoleiddio uniongyrchol ni. Mae yna waith sylweddol wedi bod yn mynd ymlaen dros y flwyddyn diwethaf o'n rhan ni. Mae hwn yn gysylltiedig â'r cynllun 'Mwy na geiriau' roeddech chi'n cyfeirio ato yn fanna. Mae 'Mwy na geiriau' yn gynllun pum mlynedd a fydd yn dod i ddiwedd ei gyfnod yn 2027. Nod 'Mwy na geiriau' yw sicrhau bod y Gymraeg wedi ymwreiddio i mewn i wasanaethau iechyd a gofal, sef, byddwn i'n dadlau, y gwasanaethau clinigol yna a'r gwasanaethau gofal sylfaenol rydyn ni'n ymwneud â nhw o fewn y gwasanaeth iechyd. Dydy'r dyletswyddau o dan y safonau ddim yn ymhél â hynny yn uniongyrchol. Un o'r prif arfau sydd gennym ni ydy'r gofyniad ar y sector i gael cynlluniau pum mlynedd i gynyddu capasiti i gynnal ymgynghoriadau clinigol drwy gyfrwng y Gymraeg.
As a regulator, our expectation is that they comply with the duties, come what may. That is, I'm not going to put a figure on it. What I'm suggesting here is that, in our monitoring work, we can see that the levels in the other sectors are much higher in terms of compliance. So, the priority for us—of course, we want to get to that 100 per cent compliance level, because that's what we're working towards—but the priority in terms of the sector is to try and get them towards the levels that we see in the other sectors that are performing best.
I mentioned the statutory duties, and, of course, those are within our direct regulatory framework. Significant work has been ongoing during the last year on our part. This is associated with the 'More than just words' plan that you referred to there. 'More than just words' is a five-year plan that will come to the end of its life in 2027. The aim of 'More than just words' is to ensure that the Welsh language is embedded into health and care services, which, I would argue, are those clinical services and primary care services that we are involved with in the health service. The duties under standards do not relate to that directly. One of the main tools that we have is the requirement on the sector to have five-year plans to increase capacity to hold clinical consultations through the medium of Welsh.
And where do you think it's going wrong, in some senses? I did 11 years in the health service, and in the early days it was always mandatory training, the Welsh language, and then incorporated in latter years to the electronic staff record, ESR, which is designed to promote as much compliance as possible with an aim to 100 per cent, sort of thing. Where are those systems going wrong within a digitalised sense, if that seemed to be making progress in those regards? And what's holding those health boards back in terms of achieving those things, given that we've made good inroads, basically, to where we need to be?
Rwy'n credu roedden ni'n sôn yn gynharach, onid oeddem, am gynllunio gweithluoedd dwyieithog, a dyna yn y bôn sydd wrth wraidd y cynlluniau pum mlynedd. Dwi'n meddwl beth rydyn ni wedi ei weld yn ystod y cyfnod diwethaf ydy bod y graddau mae'r sector—a dwi'n siarad yn gyffredinol fan hyn—bod y graddau mae'r sector yn cynllunio'r gweithlu gyda golwg ar sicrhau bod yna gapasiti yn y meysydd blaenoriaeth hynny mae 'Mwy na geiriau' yn ymwneud â nhw, mae hynny, efallai—sut gwnaf ei roi o? Mae yna waith pellach i'w wneud er mwyn sicrhau bod y cynlluniau gweithlu yna'n digwydd yn llawer mwy pwrpasol, bwriadol, strategol—
I think that we mentioned earlier, didn't we, the bilingual workforce planning, and that is what is at the heart of the five-year plans. I think that what we've seen over the past period is that the degree to which the sector—and I'm speaking in general terms here—that the degree to which the sector is planning the workforce with a view to ensuring that there is capacity in those priority areas that 'More than just words' is engaged with, that, perhaps—how can I put it? There is further work to be done to ensure that those workforce plans are undertaken in a far more purposeful, deliberate, strategic—
What work, though? What would be your recommendation to a health board? I'm not naming anyone specifically, but what would be a piece of advice or direction that you would give, if you can or could, to a health board to say, 'This is where you need to be, and this is how you get there?'
Dwi'n credu bod pennu gwaelodlin a deall beth yw'r capasiti presennol o ran sgiliau iaith y gweithlu yn gam cychwynnol. Un peth ydy gosod targed a lle mae rhywun eisiau bod ymhen pum mlynedd—ac mae yna ddisgwyliad ar y byrddau iechyd i wneud hynny—ond heb wybod lle rydych chi'n dechrau ohono fo, mae'n anodd mesur y graddau y mae angen cynnydd a chynllunio er mwyn gwneud hynny. Felly, dwi'n meddwl efallai'r cyngor cychwynnol a'r hyn sydd angen digwydd yn y tymor byr ydy bod pob un o'r byrddau iechyd a'r ymddiriedolaethau â gwell dealltwriaeth a dealltwriaeth gynhwysfawr o'r capasiti presennol sydd ganddyn nhw o ran sgiliau iaith y gweithlu. Dwi ddim yn gwybod os wyt ti eisiau ychwanegu rhywbeth.
I think that setting a baseline and understanding what the current capacity is in terms of the workforce's language skills is an initial step. It's one thing to set a target and where one wants to be in five years' time—and there's an expectation that the health boards will do that—but without knowing where you're starting from, it's difficult to measure the degree to which progress and planning are needed to do that. So, I think the initial advice and what needs to happen in the short term is that every one of the health boards and trusts has a better understanding and a comprehensive understanding of the current capacity that they have when it comes to language skills in the workforce. I don't know if you want to add anything.
Mae yna ffordd bell i fynd. Dwi'n teimlo ein bod ni wedi gallu symud y byrddau iechyd ymlaen dros y flwyddyn diwethaf gyda'r gwaith maen nhw angen ei wneud o dan safon 110, ond mae yna waith pellach i'w wneud. Dyma pam dwi wedi pennu'r maes iechyd fel un o fy mlaenoriaethau i; mae'n faes mor bwysig i bobl sydd yn eu gwendid. Mae yna systemau cymhleth, mae yna nifer o gyrff yn ymwneud â'r materion yma, a fy mwriad yw cyfrannu'n adeiladol at y trafodaethau hynny.
There's a long way to go. I do feel that we have been able to move the health boards forward over the last year with the work that they need to do under the 110 standard, but there is further work to do. This is why I have named the health area as one of my priorities; it's such an important field for people who are vulnerable. There are complex systems, there are a number of bodies involved with these matters, and my intention is to contribute constructively to those discussions.
Dwi'n credu efallai un o'r pwyntiau olaf buaswn i yn ei wneud ydy, yn amlwg, mae'n gwaith ni yn bennaf yn ymwneud â'r dyletswyddau statudol yna. Mae 'Mwy na geiriau' yn ceisio mynd i'r afael â'r gwasanaethau clinigol. Mi ydyn ni, yn y flwyddyn diwethaf, wedi sefydlu fforwm strategol ar y cyd gyda thîm 'Mwy na geiriau' o fewn y Llywodraeth, ac mae'r gwaith yna yn—. Pwrpas y fforwm ydy, ie, cefnogi'r sector, ond hefyd herio'r sector. Rydym ni eisiau gweld, fel rhan o'r cynllunio gweithlu yna, arferion recriwtio yn esblygu ac yn addasu dros y cyfnod sydd i ddod. Felly, mae'r gwaith o gydweithio gyda'n partneriaid ni, Addysg a Gwella Iechyd Cymru, Iechyd a Gofal Digidol Cymru, y Ganolfan Dysgu Cymraeg Genedlaethol, mae yna lot o sefydliadau sydd â chyfraniad i'w wneud yn yr agenda yma.
I think that one of the final points I would make is that, obviously, our work primarily relates to those statutory duties. 'More than just words' tries to tackle the clinical services. Over the past year, we've established a strategic forum alongside the 'More than just words' team within the Government, and that work—. The purpose of the forum is, yes, to support the sector, but also to challenge the sector. We want to see, as part of that workforce planning, recruitment practices evolving and adapting over the next period. So, the work of collaboration is under way with our partners, with Health Education and Improvement Wales, Digital Health and Care Wales, the National Centre for Learning Welsh; there are many organisations that have a contribution to make on this agenda.
Efallai gwnaf i jest cyfeirio'n benodol at enghraifft benodol ymarferol: fe wnaethon ni, y llynedd, gyhoeddi papur briffio am le oedden ni o ran gwaith cefnogi pobl sydd â dementia sy'n siarad Cymraeg. O ganlyniad i'r argymhellion hynny, mae Llywodraeth Cymru wedi ailsefydlu pwyllgor yn benodol i edrych ar hyn. Ar hyn o bryd, ni sy'n cadeirio’r pwyllgor hwnnw. Felly, mae honno, efallai, yn enghraifft ymarferol o le dwi'n gobeithio ein bod ni'n gallu ychwanegu gwerth a phwyso lle bod angen.
Perhaps I'll just refer to a specific practical example: last year, we published a briefing paper on where we were in terms of work on supporting people who have dementia and are Welsh speakers. As a result of those recommendations, Welsh Government has re-established a committee specifically to look at this. Currently, we're chairing that committee. So, that, perhaps, is a practical example of where I hope we can add value and apply pressure when required.
And would there be—? Sorry, if we've got time, would there be any specific recommendation that you would make to Welsh Government in terms of how that can be strategically led, through health boards? I mean, I'm a bit biased in some ways, because I'm a north Wales Member, but given that Betsi Cadwaladr is in special measures, under direct Welsh Government control, would that be something that you could, perhaps, look at with Welsh Government, to say, 'Look, there are inroads that we can make here, and progress that can be had'? Because you've got a big health board, basically, in Betsi Cadwaladr, which spans across north Wales, but they're in three compartments, as a caveat to that. Because you've got north-west Wales, which, obviously, has a high density of Welsh language speakers; central, a little bit of both; and then the north-east, less Welsh language. So, in that sense, what scope could you have to look at some recommendations with Welsh Government, to say, 'Look, how can we spread the butter a bit more widely'?
Felly, ar draws ardal Betsi Cadwaladr, mae'r safonau yr un fath, a'r un hawl sydd gan siaradwyr Cymraeg, lle bynnag maen nhw'n byw yn ardal y bwrdd iechyd. Beth sydd gyda ni yn ei le yw cyfarfodydd cyson gyda swyddogion Llywodraeth Cymru i rannu'n hargymhellion ni. Rydym ni yn gwneud cyflwyniadau cyson i gyfarfodydd prif weithredwyr y byrddau iechyd, ac rydym ni yn cymryd y cyfleoedd yna i adrodd yn ôl ar eu perfformiad nhw ac i argymell camau gweithredu. Fel eglurodd Osian, mae yna ffordd i fynd, ond yn y cyfamser, byddwn ni'n parhau i gynnig ein sylwadau a'n hargymhellion ni.
So, across the Betsi Cadwaladr area, the standards are the same, and Welsh speakers have the same rights wherever they live in that health board area. What we have in place are regular meetings with Welsh Government officials to share our recommendations. We are making regular presentations to meetings of chief executives of the health boards, and we take those opportunities to report back on their performance and to recommend actions. As Osian explained, there is some way to go, but in the meantime, we will continue to offer our comments and our recommendations.
Roeddech chi'n sôn am argymhellion i Lywodraeth Cymru, efallai fod ein galwadau maniffesto ni ar gyfer etholiadau'r Senedd ac ar gyfer Llywodraeth nesaf Cymru yn fan cychwyn da. Mae gennym ni alwad maniffesto penodol yn ymwneud â'r sector iechyd. Yn sicr, dwi'n credu ein bod ni o'r farn bod angen buddsoddiad canolog er mwyn sicrhau bod yna ymdrechion dwysach yn y meysydd blaenoriaeth hynny mae 'Mwy na geiriau' yn eu hadnabod.
You mentioned recommendations to Welsh Government, perhaps our manifesto calls for the Senedd elections and for the next Welsh Government are a good starting point. We do have a manifesto call specifically relating to the health sector. Certainly, I think that we are of the view that there's a need for central investment in order to ensure that there are more intense efforts in those priority areas that 'More than just words' identifies.
Diolch yn fawr iawn. Rydym ni mas o amser, yn anffodus, ond diolch yn fawr iawn am fynd â ni drwy'r maes yna. Diolch i'r ddau ohonoch chi am y dystiolaeth bore yma. Dŷn ni wedi cyfro nifer o feysydd gwahanol. Mae yna ambell i gwestiwn doedd dim amser gyda ni i fynd i mewn iddyn nhw—byddwn ni'n ysgrifennu atoch chi gyda'r rheini, os yw hwnna'n iawn. Bydd transgript o'r hyn sydd wedi cael ei ddweud yn cael ei anfon atoch chi ichi wirio ei fod e'n gofnod teg hefyd, ond diolch yn fawr iawn i chi am fod gyda ni bore yma, a bron mewn i'r prynhawn hefyd. Diolch yn fawr iawn.
Thank you very much. We have run out of time, unfortunately, but thank you for taking us through that particular issue. Thank you very much to both of you for your evidence this morning. We've covered a number of different areas. There are some questions that we didn't have time to cover—we'll write to you with those, if that's okay. A transcript of what has been said will be sent to you for you to check it for accuracy as well, but thank you very much to both of you for joining us this morning, and almost into the afternoon as well. Thank you very much.
Diolch i chi.
Thank you.
Diolch i chi.
Thank you.
Diolch. Wrth inni ffarwelio â'n tystion ni—a diolch eto i chi—Aelodau, dŷn ni'n symud yn syth ymlaen. Felly, diolch eto am y dystiolaeth.
Thanks. As we say farewell to our witnesses—and, again, thank you—Members, we'll move straight on. Thank you once again for the evidence.
Dŷn ni'n symud at eitem 4, sef papurau i'w nodi. Oes gan unrhyw un unrhyw beth maen nhw eisiau ei ddweud ar y record? Gwnaf i fynd at Heledd.
We'll move on to item 4, which is papers to note. Does anyone have anything that they want to say on the record? I'll go to Heledd.
Buaswn i'n hoffi rhoi ar y record, o dan 4.6, yr ymateb yr ydym ni wedi'i dderbyn gan y Gweinidog yn benodol, ac, os caf fi, o ran yr ôl-groniad o waith cynnal a chadw. Mi oedd hwn yn fater gwnaethom ni graffu yn sylweddol arno fo. Does yna ddim ffigwr gan Lywodraeth Cymru o ran beth ydy'r ôl-groniad o waith cynnal a chadw ar draws y sectorau hyn. Yr argraff a gawsom ni wrth i ni graffu oedd bod y ffigwr yna'n bodoli, ond mae hwn yn cadarnhau nad oes ffigwr ganddyn nhw. Felly, sut ar wyneb y ddaear mae Llywodraeth Cymru'n gallu mynd i'r afael â'r heriau hyn, os nad ydyn nhw'n gwybod maint y broblem?
Buaswn i'n hoffi deall gan Lywodraeth Cymru pam y rhoddwyd yr argraff bod hwn yn bodoli, a rŵan rydyn ni wedi cael cadarnhad bod yna ddim y fath ffigwr. Does gen i ddim o'r sicrwydd o gael yr ymateb hwn fod ein casgliadau cenedlaethol ni'n ddiogel o fewn y sefydliadau hyn, o ran ein bod ni'n gwybod beth ydy'r angen i'w cadw nhw'n ddiogel, nac ychwaith beth ydy'r angen ledled Cymru. Rydyn ni wedi gweld buddsoddiad sylweddol o filiynau o bunnau yn mynd i mewn i'r sectorau hyn, ond sut ydyn ni i fod i gael ffydd fel pwyllgor fod hwn yn mynd i'r llefydd lle mae gwir angen y buddsoddiad hwnnw, os nad ydy Llywodraeth Cymru efo'r ffigwr?
I would like to put on the record, under 4.6, the response that we've received from the Minister specifically, and, if I may, in terms of the maintenance backlog. This was something that we scrutinised significantly. Welsh Government has no figure regarding what the maintenance backlog is across these sectors. The impression we got as we did the scrutiny was that that figure did exist, but this confirms that they don't have a figure. So, how on earth can Welsh Government address these challenges, if they don't know the size of the problem?
I would really like to understand from Welsh Government why the impression was given that this existed, and now we have confirmation that there is no such figure. I don't have the assurance in getting this response that our national collections are safe within these organisations, in that we know what the need is to keep them safe, or what the need is across Wales. We've seen a significant investment of millions of pounds going into these sectors, but how we are supposed to have faith as a committee that that is going to the areas where there's a real need for that investment, if Welsh Government doesn't have the figure?
Wel, yn sicr mae hwnna'n rhywbeth y byddwn ni'n gallu codi gyda'r Llywodraeth. Alun.
Well, certainly that's something that we can raise with the Government. Alun.
Wel, mae'r gyllideb yn dod lan, so mae hwnna'n gyfle i ni godi hyn.
Well, the budget is coming up, so that's an opportunity to raise this.
Ydy, ond dwi'n credu bod ei gael o ar ddu a gwyn yn rhywbeth y dylem ni gymryd sylw ohono fo.
Yes, but I think that having it in black and white is something that we should pay attention to.
Ie, dwi'n cytuno. Ond mae yna gyfle arall gyda ni i graffu'r Llywodraeth pan fydd y gyllideb o'n blaenau ni.
Yes, I agree. But we have another opportunity to scrutinise the Government when the budget is before us.
Ac mae hwnna ar y record nawr hefyd. Oes unrhyw beth arall y byddai rhywun eisiau ei ddweud ar y record? Dwi ddim yn gweld bod. Felly, ydych chi'n hapus i ni nodi'r papurau hynny? Iawn.
And that's on the record now too. Is there anything else that Members want to place on the record? I don't see that there is. So, are you content to note the papers? I see that Members are.
Cynnig:
bod y pwyllgor yn penderfynu gwahardd y cyhoedd o weddill y cyfarfod yn unol â Rheol Sefydlog 17.42(ix).
Motion:
that the committee resolves to exclude the public from the remainder of the meeting in accordance with Standing Order 17.42(ix).
Cynigiwyd y cynnig.
Motion moved.
Rwy'n symud at eitem 5, ac rwy'n cynnig o dan Reol Sefydlog 17.42(ix) i wahardd y cyhoedd o weddill y cyfarfod hwn. Ydych chi'n fodlon i ni wneud?
I move on to item 5, and I propose in accordance with Standing Order 17.42(ix) that the committee resolves to exclude the public from the rest of this meeting. Are Members content for us to do so?
Bodlon.
Content.
Bodlon. Diolch.
Content. Thank you.
Ocê. Diolch am ddweud hwnna hefyd. Gwnawn ni aros i glywed ein bod ni'n breifat.
Okay. Thank you for saying so too. We'll wait to hear that we're in private.
Derbyniwyd y cynnig.
Daeth rhan gyhoeddus y cyfarfod i ben am 12:01.
Motion agreed.
The public part of the meeting ended at 12:01.