Y Pwyllgor Deddfwriaeth, Cyfiawnder a’r Cyfansoddiad
Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
02/06/2025Aelodau'r Pwyllgor a oedd yn bresennol
Committee Members in Attendance
Adam Price | |
Alun Davies | |
Mike Hedges | Cadeirydd y Pwyllgor |
Committee Chair | |
Samuel Kurtz | |
Swyddogion y Senedd a oedd yn bresennol
Senedd Officials in Attendance
Gerallt Roberts | Ail Glerc |
Second Clerk | |
Kate Rabaiotti | Cynghorydd Cyfreithiol |
Legal Adviser | |
P Gareth Williams | Clerc |
Clerk | |
Sarah Sargent | Ail Glerc |
Second Clerk |
Cynnwys
Contents
Cofnodir y trafodion yn yr iaith y llefarwyd hwy ynddi yn y pwyllgor. Yn ogystal, cynhwysir trawsgrifiad o’r cyfieithu ar y pryd. Mae hon yn fersiwn ddrafft o’r cofnod.
The proceedings are reported in the language in which they were spoken in the committee. In addition, a transcription of the simultaneous interpretation is included. This is a draft version of the record.
Cyfarfu’r pwyllgor drwy gynhadledd fideo.
Dechreuodd y cyfarfod am 13:30.
The committee met by video-conference.
The meeting began at 13:30.
Prynhawn da a chroeso i'r cyfarfod hwn o'r Pwyllgor Deddfwriaeth, Cyfiawnder a’r Cyfansoddiad.
Good afternoon, and welcome to this meeting of the Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee.
No apologies have been received. As a reminder, the meeting is being broadcast live on Senedd.tv, and the Record of Proceedings will be published as usual. Please can Members ensure that all mobile devices are switched to silent mode? Senedd Cymru operates through the medium of both the English and Welsh languages. Interpretation is available during today’s meeting.
That now takes us on to item 2, instruments that raise issues to be reported to the Senedd under Standing Order 21.2 or 21.3. There is a written paper by the Cabinet Secretary for Housing and Local Government. The draft Order makes provision for the conduct of elections, specifically for the manner in which elections and election campaigns are conducted, and for legal challenges to an election. It remakes, updates and consolidates the existing provisions on the conduct of such elections contained in the National Assembly for Wales (Representation of the People) Order 2007, which has been amended a number of times previously.
This Order also implements legislative changes required by the Senedd Cymru (Members and Elections) Act 2024 and reflects changes made in the Elections and Elected Bodies (Wales) Act 2024. Senedd lawyers have identified 36 technical and six merits reporting points. A Welsh Government response has not yet been received. Kate, would you like to run through the reporting points?

Thank you. Of the 36 technical reporting points, one point is identified under Standing Order 21.28 for the use of gender-specific language, six points identify potentially defective drafting, 14 points relate to inconsistencies between the Welsh and English language texts, and 15 points are matters that require further explanation from the Welsh Government.
The first three merits reporting points are identifying provisions that impose a charge on the Welsh consolidated fund. The fourth merits point asks the Welsh Government why regulations made by the Electoral Commission under the Order do not have to be laid before the Senedd. The fifth merits point notes that the consultation version of the Order provided that any donation less than £50 was to be disregarded, but under the draft Order as laid, this amount has been increased to £500, and so Welsh Government is asked to explain the significant increase. And then the final merits point is seeking further information from the Welsh Government as to why a form has not been included for the return of individual candidates' election expenses when such a form was included in the consultation version of the Order.
This is quite a high number of reporting points, but Members may want to note that this partly reflects the length of the Order, which is approximately 400 pages in each language, and we're waiting for the Welsh Government to provide its response.
Before we pull other people in, I can think of no reason why the English and Welsh should be different. I've said it in other places that I've been told off about, but the Welsh Government have a large number of people who are capable of checking that the Welsh and English say the same. The second point I want to make, which is I think it's totally unacceptable to use gender-specific language. The Welsh Government would be shouting at or complaining about any other public body that did that. So, I think that those are the points that we really ought to highlight to the Welsh Government. Any other Members want to say anything? Alun.
I agree with you, but also I think we should be saying this is not a good piece of work from the Welsh Government, and that I think we have a right to expect the Welsh Government to do better.
Yes. That was very—
So I think the correspondence should be suitably robust.
That was much more nicely put than how I did it. Sam and Adam, I assume you both agree. Yes. Okay. Thank you very much.
Item 2.2, the Renting Homes (Wales) Act 2016 (Consequential Amendments) Regulations 2025. These regulations make amendments to the Landlord and Tenant Act 1987 and the Renting Homes (Wales) Act 2016 (Consequential Amendments) Regulations 2022 in relation to the rights of qualifying tenants for first refusal if a landlord wishes to dispose of their interest in a property containing a qualifying tenant’s flat. Senedd lawyers have identified two merits reporting points. A Welsh Government response is not required. Kate, do you want to run us through the reporting points?

The first merits point notes that the regulations would be more accurately titled as 'amendment regulations' rather than 'consequential amendments' on the basis that they correct an earlier 2022 consequential amendment. The second merits point just notes that no consultation has been carried out in relation to the regulations and there are reasons for that provided in the explanatory memorandum.
Thank you very much. If Members haven't got anything to say, I'll move on to item 3.
These are instruments that raise issues to be reported to the Senedd under Standing Order 21.2 or 21.3, previously considered. On the Procurement (Wales) (Amendment) Regulations 2025, the committee considered this instrument at its meeting on 12 May and laid the report the same day. Members are invited to note the Welsh Government's response to the report, which has since been received. Kate, do you have anything to raise from the Welsh Government's response?

Just to note that, in response to the eight technical reporting points, the Welsh Government intends to correct one of these points through further regulations, which will be made in early 2026. They’re also intending to address some of the points using 'correction prior to making' and these are all set out in a table in their response. And then, there are also some reporting points where the Welsh Government considers that no amendment is required.
Okay. Do any Members want to raise anything? No. Thank you very much, Kate.
Under no-procedure instruments, we have the Trade in Animals and Related Products (Amendment and Legislative Functions) and Animal Health (Miscellaneous Amendments) (Wales) (EU Exit) (Amendment) Order 2025. The committee considered this instrument at its meeting on 28 April and laid its report the same day. Members are invited to note the Welsh Government response to the report, which has since been received. Kate, do you have anything to raise from the Welsh Government's response?

Yes, just two points to draw to your attention on this one. In response to the first merits point, the Welsh Government confirms that, in relation to reporting point 30 on the original 2022 regulations, they have still not found an appropriate vires to meet the then Minister’s undertaking to change the scrutiny procedure for the Henry VIII powers in those regulations, and the Welsh Government confirms that there remains no suitable legislative vehicle to make this change at present.
Also, in response to the second merits point, which asked the Welsh Government whether there had been any impact of this error remaining on the statute book for over two years, the Welsh Government says that no impacts have been brought to their attention.
Brilliant answer. They may well have had an impact but no-one’s told them about it. I think it gets over the fact that it’s a problem if you say, 'Well, yes, but no-one’s complained.'
On to notifications and correspondence under the inter-institutional relations agreement, and we've got lots on this. We've got a letter from the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Secretary for Climate Change and Rural Affairs—times two; a letter from the Cabinet Secretary for Housing and Local Government on the Inter-Ministerial Group for Housing, Communities and Local Government; a letter from the First Minister of Wales on the forthcoming inter-governmental meetings; and a letter from the Cabinet Secretary for Economy, Energy and Planning on the Interministerial Group for Trade.
Members are invited to note the various correspondence we’ve received from the Welsh Government in relation to inter-ministerial meetings, and firstly from the Deputy First Minister in relation to a meeting of the Inter-Ministerial Group for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs, which is due to take place on 23 June. He has also notified us that a written statement has been issued that summarises discussions at the British-Irish Council environment ministerial meeting that took place on 8 May. Also, the Cabinet Secretary for Housing and Local Government informs us of a meeting of the Inter-Ministerial Group for Housing, Communities and Local Government, which will take place this Wednesday. We also have a letter from the First Minister, telling us that the second meeting of the Council of the Nations and Regions was due to take place on 23 May. She noted that she would be meeting with the Prime Minister, the First Minister of Scotland and the First Minister and Deputy First Minister of Northern Ireland, as well as having a short bilateral meeting with the Prime Minister.
Finally, we have a letter from the Cabinet Secretary for Economy, Energy and Planning in relation to a meeting of the Interministerial Group for Trade, which is scheduled to take place today. If Members are content to note these letters—. Are we? Does anybody want to raise anything, or shall we wait until we get into private? Okay.
Moving on, we have correspondence from the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Secretary for Climate Change and Rural Affairs on the Persistent Organic Pollutants (Amendment) (No. 3) Regulations 2025. The Deputy First Minister informs us that he has now given consent for these regulations to be made by the UK Government’s Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs, and for the regulations to apply to Wales. The Deputy First Minister provides a link to a written statement he has published and says that,
'In light of new and urgent information from the medical technology sector this expedited legislative action is necessary to mitigate imminent disruption to the medical sector, including the NHS Wales having recognised the significant medical applications of Dechlorane Plus and UV-238.'
Are Members content to note this? Yes.
Papers to note. We have a written statement by the Counsel General and Minister for Delivery on the Welsh Government report on the implementation of the Law Commission proposals 2024-25. The Welsh Government has published its tenth annual report on the implementation by the Welsh Government of the Law Commission proposals that relate to Welsh devolved matters. It provides updates on the progress made on a range of issues that have been the subject of Law Commission recommendations. For example, on residential leasehold and commonhold matters, the report states that the UK Government has announced its intention to bring forward further draft legislation and enact further Law Commission recommendations relating to the enfranchisement, right to manage and commonhold recommendations in late 2025. It adds that the Welsh Government is working with the UK Government to ensure that further reforms will also be applied to Wales. In addition, in relation to the devolved tribunals, the report states that extensive work to develop the legislation required to implement the programme of reforms relating to devolved tribunals is ongoing. Do Members have any comments? Kate, do you have anything to say? I could just see you on my screen, so I assumed you might be going to say something.

No, nothing from me.
Thank you. A written statement by the Cabinet Secretary for Economy, Energy and Planning on the EU-UK summit. The Cabinet Secretary’s written statement refers to the UK Government’s EU-UK summit, which has secured agreements in relation to trade and investment. The Cabinet Secretary states
'There is still work to be done to finalise the details, and we are clear that the Welsh Government must be fully involved in discussions on devolved matters or issues that impact Wales.'
Are Members content to note this? Okay. I'll take that to be a 'yes'.
Correspondence from the Economy, Trade and Rural Affairs Committee to the Business Committee: supplementary legislative consent memoranda on the Product Regulation and Metrology Bill. The Economy, Trade and Rural Affairs Committee has written to the Business Committee about memoranda relating to the Product Regulation and Metrology Bill. Do Members have any comments they wish to make? No.
The submission to the House of Lords International Agreements Committee inquiry into treaty scrutiny: Members are invited to note our submission to the House of Lords International Agreements Committee inquiry into treaty scrutiny, which was submitted on 21 May. Are Members content to note this for the record? Yes.
Cynnig:
bod y pwyllgor yn penderfynu gwahardd y cyhoedd o weddill y cyfarfod yn unol â Rheol Sefydlog 17.42(vi).
Motion:
that the committee resolves to exclude the public from the remainder of the meeting in accordance with Standing Order 17.42(vi).
Cynigiwyd y cynnig.
Motion moved.
The motion under Standing Order 17.42—in accordance with Standing Order 17.42(vi), I invite the committee to resolve to exclude the public from the remainder of the meeting. Do Members agree? Yes. Thank you.
Derbyniwyd y cynnig.
Daeth rhan gyhoeddus y cyfarfod i ben am 13:42.
Motion agreed.
The public part of the meeting ended at 13:42.