National Assembly for Wales

Prynhawn da and welcome to everybody. This is a virtual meeting of the Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee. We have received apologies from Adam Price. As a reminder, the meeting is being broadcast live on Senedd.tv and the Record of Proceedings will be published as usual. Aside from the procedural adaptations for conducting meetings in a virtual format, all other Standing Order requirements remain in place. Housekeeping arrangements: please can Members ensure that all mobile devices are switched to silent mode? Senedd Cymru operates through the mediums of Welsh and English languages. Interpretation is available during today's meeting. Members are reminded that the sound operator is controlling the microphones and, as such, you don't need to mute and unmute yourself during the public meeting.

This takes us on to item 2, instruments that raise issues to be reported to the Senedd under Standing Order 21.2 or 21.3. At item 2, we have two to raise, paper 1, draft report. These regulations make provision in relation to Wales on regulated food product authorisations. Senedd lawyers have identified one technical reporting point and one merits reporting point. A Welsh Government response is not required. Does our legal team have any issues to highlight arising from the draft? No. Do Members have any comments or observations? No. Are we happy to agree the reporting points? Yes.

On to item 2.2, the Building (Amendment) (Wales) Regulations 2024, draft paper 2. These regulations amend the 2010 regulations to include, with amendments, the requirements for the installation of automatic fire systems in care homes for children contained in the Domestic Fire Safety (Wales) Measure 2011. Senedd lawyers have identified one technical point and one merits reporting point. A Welsh Government response has not yet been received. Does our legal team have any issues to highlight arising from the draft report, and if we've had a Welsh Government response? Have the legal team got anything to say?

Yes, if I can just take you quickly through the points. So, we have received a Welsh Government response today. The technical point was seeking further explanation from Welsh Government about one the provisions that hadn't been moved from the 2010 regulations into the 2011 Measure, and in response, Welsh Government confirms that that will continue to have effect through the Measure rather than through the regulations.

And the merits point was asking Welsh Government to confirm whether or not a regulatory impact assessment has been carried out, because there was conflicting information in the explanatory memorandum and in the explanatory note. In response, Welsh Government has confirmed that it's the explanatory memorandum that's correct. There has not been a regulatory impact assessment and that's for the reasons given in paragraph 6.1 of the explanatory memorandum.

Thank you very much. Do any Members want to make any comments? No. Are we happy to agree the reporting points? Yes. Thank you very much.

Affirmative resolution instruments, SL(6)493, the Procurement (Wales) Regulations 2024. These regulations provide additional details and requirements that are necessary to ensure the functioning of the Procurement Act 2023. Senedd lawyers have identified 11 technical reporting points, and two merits reporting points. A Welsh Government response has been received. Does our legal team have any issues to highlight arising from the draft report and Welsh Government response? Yes.

Yes. If I could just draw a couple of points to your attention in relation to the response. So, firstly, in response to four of the technical points, Welsh Government intends to make amending regulations in the autumn ahead of these regulations coming into force. So, the effect of that is that the regulations will be correct at the time that they take effect, but Members may just wish to note that it does mean that the Senedd will still be asked to vote on this draft, which continues to contain those defects for now.

The second point to note relates to Welsh Government's responses to reporting points 10 and 11, which raise some questions. Both of these points relate to references to bodies listed in these regulations. Point 10 was asking Welsh Government for clarification about the meaning of 'NHS bodies', given that NHS trusts and local health boards are listed separately, so it isn't completely clear what this additional term is supposed to cover.

And then point 11 noted that certain bodies are referred to by outdated names, and the most obvious example of this is the reference to the National Assembly for Wales Commission. Welsh Government's response deals with both of those points together. The response does not answer the question about the meaning of 'NHS bodies', and in relation to the outdated names, Welsh Government says that they were advised by the UK Government that names could not be changed.

So, this raises a question of whether it's entirely appropriate for Welsh Government to be taking direction from the UK Government about the content of a Welsh statutory instrument. The powers in the 2023 Act are conferred on the Welsh Ministers, so we would suggest that it's for the Welsh Ministers to decide how to exercise those powers and it would therefore be helpful to understand why, in this case, Welsh Government thought they needed to take this advice from the UK Government, particularly in relation to using an incorrect name for the Senedd Commission. So, we would suggest that the committee may want to write to Welsh Government and seek clarity on those points in advance of the debate on these regulations.

Do any Members have any comments or observations? No, okay. Are we happy to agree the reporting points? Yes, great.

That takes us on to item 3. We have nothing under item 3.

That takes us to item 4, papers to note. Correspondence from the Cabinet Secretary for Economy, Energy and Welsh Language: the Data Protection and Digital Information Bill. We have a letter from the Cabinet Secretary, in which he responds to the committee’s report on the supplementary legislative consent memorandum (memorandum No. 4) on the Data Protection and Digital Information Bill, which was published on 13 May 2024. Do Members have any comments they wish to make? If not, we’ll move on to the next item. No, fine.

Item 4.2, correspondence with the Cabinet Secretary for Health and Social Care: healthy food environment. We have a letter from the Cabinet Secretary in which she responds to the committee’s request for an update on her progress in bringing forward healthy food environment legislation this year. The Cabinet Secretary confirms that she intends to lay legislation to restrict the price promotion and placement of high fat, salt and sugar products before the Senedd in 2024. The Cabinet Secretary states her officials are in regular contact with UK Government officials, and there are ongoing discussions about the impact of the United Kingdom Internal Market Act 2020. The Cabinet Secretary will update us in due course. Are we content to just note that for the moment? Yes. 

Item 4.3, correspondence from the Health and Social Care Committee to the Cabinet Secretary for Health and Social Care and the Minister for Mental Health and Early Years: prisoner healthcare. We have a letter from the Health and Social Care Committee to the Cabinet Secretary and the Minister in response to prisoner healthcare. We can note it now and we may wish to discuss it in the private session, when we will further consider Adam Price’s correspondence in relation to HM Prison Parc. Are we happy? Yes.

On to item 4.4, correspondence from the Cabinet Secretary for North Wales and Transport: the Automated Vehicles Bill. At item 4.4, we have a letter from the Cabinet Secretary, in which he responds to the committee’s report on the supplementary legislative consent memorandum (memorandum No. 3) on the Automated Vehicles Bill, which was published on 22 April 2024. Are Members content to note this? Yes.

Moving on to item 5, motion under Standing Order 17.42 to resolve to exclude the public from the remainder of the meeting.